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+The Project Gutenberg EBook of The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 5
+(of 12), by Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with
+almost no restrictions whatsoever.  You may copy it, give it away or
+re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included
+with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org
+
+
+Title: The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 5 (of 12)
+       Dresden Edition--Discussions
+
+Author: Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+Release Date: February 9, 2012 [EBook #38805]
+
+Language: English
+
+Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1
+
+*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK WORKS OF INGERSOLL ***
+
+
+
+
+Produced by David Widger
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+THE WORKS OF Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+"There Can Be But Little Liberty On Earth
+While Men Worship A Tyrant In Heaven."
+
+In Twelve Volumes, Volume V.
+
+DISCUSSIONS
+
+1900
+
+
+DRESDEN EDITION
+
+
+
+
+CONTENTS OF VOLUME V.
+
+SIX INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.
+
+(1882.)
+
+Preface--First Interview: Great Men as Witnesses
+to the Truth of the Gospel--No man should quote
+the Words of Another unless he is willing to
+Accept all the Opinions of that Man--Reasons of
+more Weight than Reputations--Would a general
+Acceptance of Unbelief fill the Penitentiaries?--
+My Creed--Most Criminals Orthodox--Relig-ion and
+Morality not Necessarily Associates--On the
+Creation of the Universe out of Omnipotence--Mr.
+Talmage's Theory about the Pro-duction of Light
+prior to the Creation of the Sun--The Deluge and
+the Ark--Mr. Talmage's tendency to Belittle the
+Bible Miracles--His Chemical, Geological, and
+Agricultural Views--His Disregard of Good Manners-
+-Second Interview: An Insulting Text--God's Design
+in Creating Guiteau to be the Assassin of
+Garfield--Mr. Talmage brings the Charge of
+Blasphemy--Some Real Blasphemers--The Tabernacle
+Pastor tells the exact Opposite of the Truth about
+Col. Ingersoll's Attitude toward the Circulation
+of Immoral Books--"Assassinating" God--Mr.
+Talmage finds Nearly All the Invention of Modern
+Times Mentioned in the Bible--The Reverend
+Gentleman corrects the Translators of the Bible in
+the Matter of the Rib Story--Denies that Polygamy
+is permitted by the Old Testament--His De-fence of
+Queen Victoria and Violation of the Grave of
+George Eliot--Exhibits a Christian Spirit--Third
+Interview: Mr. Talmage's Partiality in the
+Bestowal of his Love--Denies the Right of Laymen
+to Examine the Scriptures--Thinks the Infidels
+Victims of Bibliophobia --He explains the Stopping
+of the Sun and Moon at the Command of Joshua--
+Instances a Dark Day in the Early Part of the
+Century--Charges that Holy Things are Made Light
+of--Reaffirms his Confidence in the Whale and
+Jonah Story--The Commandment which Forbids the
+making of Graven Images--Affirmation that the
+Bible is the Friend of Woman--The Present
+Condition of Woman--Fourth Interview: Colonel
+Ingersoll Compared by Mr. Talmage tojehoiakim, who
+Consigned Writings of Jeremiah to the Flames--An
+Intimation that Infidels wish to have all copies
+of the Bible Destroyed by Fire--Laughter
+Deprecated--Col. Ingersoll Accused of Denouncing
+his Father--Mr. Talmage holds that a Man may be
+Perfectly Happy in Heaven with His Mother in Hell-
+-Challenges the Infidel to Read a Chapter from St.
+John--On the "Chief Solace of the World"--Dis-
+covers an Attempt is being made to Put Out the
+Light-houses of the Farther Shore--Affirms our
+Debt to Christianity for Schools, Hospitals,
+etc.--Denies that Infidels have ever Done any
+Good--
+
+Fifth Interview: Inquiries if Men gather Grapes of
+Thorns, or Figs of Thistles, and is Answered in
+the Negative--Resents the Charge that the Bible is
+a Cruel Book--Demands to Know where the Cruelty of
+the Bible Crops out in the Lives of Christians--
+Col. Ingersoll Accused of saying that the Bible
+is a Collection of Polluted Writings--Mr. Talmage
+Asserts the Orchestral Harmony of the Scriptures
+from Genesis to Revelation, and Repudiates the
+Theory of Contradictions--His View of Mankind
+Indicated in Quotations from his Confession of
+Faith--He Insists that the Bible is Scientific--
+Traces the New Testament to its Source with St.
+John--Pledges his Word that no Man ever Died for a
+Lie Cheerfully and Triumphantly--As to Prophecies
+and Predictions--Alleged "Prophetic" Fate of the
+Jewish People--Sixth Interview: Dr. Talmage takes
+the Ground that the Unrivalled Circulation of the
+Bible Proves that it is Inspired--Forgets' that a
+Scientific Fact does not depend on the Vote of
+Numbers--Names some Christian Millions--His
+Arguments Characterized as the Poor-est, Weakest,
+and Best Possible in Support of the Doctrine of
+Inspira-tion--Will God, in Judging a Man, take
+into Consideration the Cir-cumstances of that
+Man's Life?--Satisfactory Reasons for Not Believ-
+ing that the Bible is inspired.
+
+
+THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.
+
+The Pith and Marrow of what Mr. Talmage has been
+Pleased to Say, set forth in the form of a Shorter
+Catechism.
+
+
+A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.
+
+(1877.)
+
+Letter to the New York Observer--An Offer to Pay
+One Thousand Dollars in Gold for Proof that Thomas
+Paine or Voltaire Died in Terror because of any
+Religious Opinions Either had Expressed--
+Proposition to Create a Tribunal to Hear the
+Evidence--The Ob-server, after having Called upon
+Col. Ingersoll to Deposit the Money, and
+Characterized his Talk as "Infidel 'Buncombe,'"
+Denies its Own Words, but attempts to Prove them--
+Its Memory Refreshed by Col. Ingersoll and the
+Slander Refuted--Proof that Paine did Not Recant -
+-Testimony of Thomas Nixon, Daniel Pelton, Mr.
+Jarvis, B. F. Has-kin, Dr. Manley, Amasa
+Woodsworth, Gilbert Vale, Philip Graves, M. D.,
+Willet Hicks, A. C. Hankinson, John Hogeboom, W.
+J. Hilton, Tames Cheetham, Revs. Milledollar and
+Cunningham, Mrs. Hedden, Andrew A. Dean, William
+Carver,--The Statements of Mary Roscoe and Mary
+Hindsdale Examined--William Cobbett's Account of a
+Call upon Mary Hinsdale--Did Thomas Paine live the
+Life of a Drunken Beast, and did he Die a Drunken,
+Cowardly, and Beastly Death?--Grant Thorbum's
+Charges Examined--Statement of the Rev. J. D.
+Wickham, D.D., shown to be Utterly False--False
+Witness of the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D.--W. H.
+Ladd, James Cheetham, and Mary Hinsdale--Paine's
+Note to Cheetham--Mr-Staple, Mr. Purdy, Col. John
+Fellows, James Wilburn, Walter Morton, Clio
+Rickman, Judge Herttell, H. Margary, Elihu Palmer,
+Mr.
+
+XV
+
+Lovett, all these Testified that Paine was a
+Temperate Man--Washington's Letter to Paine--
+Thomas Jefferson's--Adams and Washing-ton on
+"Common Sense"---James Monroe's Tribute--
+Quotations from Paine--Paine's Estate and His
+Will--The Observer's Second Attack (p. 492):
+Statements of Elkana Watson, William Carver, Rev.
+E. F. Hatfield, D.D., James Cheetham, Dr. J. W.
+Francis, Dr. Manley, Bishop Fenwick--Ingersoll's
+Second Reply (p. 516): Testimony Garbled by the
+Editor of the Observer--Mary Roscoeand Mary Hins-
+dale the Same Person--Her Reputation for Veracity-
+-Letter from Rev. A. W. Cornell--Grant Thorburn
+Exposed by James Parton--The Observer's Admission
+that Paine did not Recant--Affidavit of
+
+William B. Barnes.
+
+
+
+
+PREFACE.
+
+SEVERAL people, having read the sermons of
+Mr. Talmage in which he reviews some of my
+lectures, have advised me not to pay the slightest
+attention to the Brooklyn divine. They think that
+no new arguments have been brought forward, and
+they have even gone so far as to say that some of
+the best of the old ones have been left out.
+
+After thinking the matter over, I became satisfied
+that my friends were mistaken, that they had been car-
+ried away by the general current of modern thought,
+and were not in a frame of mind to feel the force
+of the arguments of Mr. Talmage, or to clearly see
+the candor that characterizes his utterances.
+
+At the first reading, the logic of these sermons does
+not impress you. The style is of a character calculated
+
+VI
+
+to throw the searcher after facts and arguments off
+his guard. The imagination of the preacher is so
+lurid; he is so free from the ordinary forms of ex-
+pression; his statements are so much stranger than
+truth, and his conclusions so utterly independent of
+his premises, that the reader is too astonished to
+be convinced. Not until I had read with great care
+the six discourses delivered for my benefit had I any
+clear and well-defined idea of the logical force of
+Mr. Talmage. I had but little conception of his
+candor, was almost totally ignorant of his power to
+render the simple complex and the plain obscure by
+the mutilation of metaphor and the incoherence
+of inspired declamation. Neither did I know the
+generous accuracy with which he states the position
+of an opponent, and the fairness he exhibits in a
+religious discussion.
+
+He has without doubt studied the Bible as closely
+and critically as he has the works of Buckle and
+Darwin, and he seems to have paid as much attention
+to scientific subjects as most theologians. His theory
+of light and his views upon geology are strikingly
+original, and his astronomical theories are certainly as
+profound as practical. If his statements can be relied
+upon, he has successfully refuted the teachings of
+
+VII
+
+Humboldt and Haeckel, and exploded the blunders of
+Spencer and Tyndall. Besides all this, he has the
+courage of his convictions--he does not quail before a
+fact, and he does not strike his colors even to a dem-
+onstration. He cares nothing for human experience.
+He cannot be put down with statistics, nor driven
+from his position by the certainties of science. He
+cares neither for the persistence of force, nor the
+indestructibility of matter.
+
+He believes in the Bible, and he has the bravery
+to defend his belief. In this, he proudly stands
+almost alone. He knows that the salvation of the
+world depends upon a belief in his creed. He
+knows that what are called "the sciences" are of
+no importance in the other world. He clearly sees
+that it is better to live and die ignorant here, if you
+can wear a crown of glory hereafter. He knows it
+is useless to be perfectly familiar with all the sciences
+in this world, and then in the next "lift up your eyes,
+being in torment." He knows, too, that God will
+not punish any man for denying a fact in science.
+A man can deny the rotundity of the earth, the
+attraction of gravitation, the form of the earths orbit,
+or the nebular hypothesis, with perfect impunity.
+He is not bound to be correct upon any philo-
+
+VIII
+
+sophical subject. He is at liberty to deny and ridi-
+cule the rule of three, conic sections, and even the
+multiplication table. God permits every human
+being to be mistaken upon every subject but one.
+No man can lose his soul by denying physical facts.
+Jehovah does not take the slightest pride in his geology,
+
+or in his astronomy, or in mathematics, or in
+any school of philosophy--he is jealous only of his
+reputation as the author of the Bible. You may deny
+everything else in the universe except that book.
+This being so, Mr. Talmage takes the safe side, and
+insists that the Bible is inspired. He knows that at
+the day of judgment, not a scientific question will be
+asked. He knows that the Hæckels and Huxleys
+will, on that terrible day, regret that they ever
+learned to read. He knows that there is no "saving
+grace" in any department of human knowledge; that
+mathematics and all the exact sciences and all the
+philosophies will be worse than useless. He knows
+that inventors, discoverers, thinkers and investigators,
+have no claim upon the mercy of Jehovah; that the
+educated will envy the ignorant, and that the writers
+and thinkers will curse their books.
+
+He knows that man cannot be saved through
+what he knows--but only by means of what he
+
+IX
+
+believes. Theology is not a science. If it were,
+God would forgive his children for being mistaken
+about it. If it could be proved like geology, or
+astronomy, there would be no merit in believing it.
+From a belief in the Bible, Mr. Talmage is not to be
+driven by uninspired evidence. He knows that his
+logic is liable to lead him astray, and that his reason
+cannot be depended upon. He believes that scien-
+tific men are no authority in matters concerning
+which nothing can be known, and he does not wish
+to put his soul in peril, by examining by the light of
+reason, the evidences of the supernatural.
+
+He is perfectly consistent with his creed. What
+happens to us here is of no consequence compared
+with eternal joy or pain. The ambitions, honors,
+glories and triumphs of this world, compared with
+eternal things, are less than naught.
+
+Better a cross here and a crown there, than a feast
+here and a fire there.
+
+Lazarus was far more fortunate than Dives. The
+purple and fine linen of this short life are as nothing
+compared with the robes of the redeemed.
+
+Mr. Talmage knows that philosophy is unsafe--
+that the sciences are sirens luring souls to eternal
+wreck. He knows that the deluded searchers after
+
+X
+
+facts are planting thorns in their own pillows--that
+the geologists are digging pits for themselves, and
+that the astronomers are robbing their souls of the
+heaven they explore. He knows that thought, capa-
+city, and intellectual courage are dangerous, and this
+belief gives him a feeling of personal security.
+
+The Bible is adapted to the world as it is. Most
+people are ignorant, and but few have the capacity to
+comprehend philosophical and scientific subjects, and
+if salvation depended upon understanding even one
+of the sciences, nearly everybody would be lost.
+Mr. Talmage sees that it was exceedingly merciful in
+God to base salvation on belief instead of on brain.
+Millions can believe, while only a few can understand.
+Even the effort to understand is a kind of treason
+born of pride and ingratitude. This being so, it is far
+safer, far better, to be credulous than critical. You are
+offered an infinite reward for believing the Bible. If
+you examine it you may find it impossible for you to
+believe it. Consequently, examination is dangerous.
+Mr. Talmage knows that it is not necessary to under-
+stand the Bible in order to believe it. You must be-
+lieve it first. Then, if on reading it you find anything
+that appears false, absurd, or impossible, you may
+be sure that it is only an appearance, and that the real
+
+XI
+
+fault is in yourself. It is certain that persons wholly
+incapable of reasoning are absolutely safe, and that
+to be born brainless is to be saved in advance.
+
+Mr. Talmage takes the ground,--and certainly from
+his point of view nothing can be more reasonable
+--that thought should be avoided, after one has
+"experienced religion" and has been the subject of
+"regeneration." Every sinner should listen to ser-
+mons, read religious books, and keep thinking, until
+he becomes a Christian. Then he should stop. After
+that, thinking is not the road to heaven. The real
+point and the real difficulty is to stop thinking just at
+the right time. Young Christians, who have no idea
+of what they are doing, often go on thinking after
+joining the church, and in this way heresy is born, and
+heresy is often the father of infidelity. If Christians
+would follow the advice and example of Mr. Talmage
+all disagreements about doctrine would be avoided.
+In this way the church could secure absolute in-
+tellectual peace and all the disputes, heartburnings,
+jealousies and hatreds born of thought, discussion
+and reasoning, would be impossible.
+
+In the estimation of Mr. Talmage, the man who
+doubts and examines is not fit for the society of
+angels. There are no disputes, no discussions in
+
+XII
+
+heaven. The angels do not think; they believe,
+they enjoy. The highest form of religion is re-
+pression. We should conquer the passions and
+destroy desire. We should control the mind and
+stop thinking. In this way we "offer ourselves a
+"living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God." When
+desire dies, when thought ceases, we shall be pure.
+--This is heaven.
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll.
+
+Washington, D. C,
+
+April; 1882.
+
+
+
+
+INGERSOLL'S INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.
+
+
+
+
+FIRST INTERVIEW.
+
+_Polonius. My lord, I will use them according to
+their desert.
+
+Hamlet. God's bodikins, man, much better: use
+every man after his desert, and who should 'scape
+whipping? Use them after your own honor and
+dignity: the less they deserve, the more merit is
+in your bounty._
+
+_Question_. Have you read the sermon of
+
+Mr. Talmage, in which he exposes your mis-
+representations?
+
+_Answer_. I have read such reports as appeared in
+some of the New York papers.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of what he has
+to say?
+
+_Answer_. Some time ago I gave it as my opinion
+of Mr. Talmage that, while he was a man of most
+excellent judgment, he was somewhat deficient in
+imagination. I find that he has the disease that seems
+
+16
+
+to afflict most theologians, and that is, a kind of intel-
+lectual toadyism, that uses the names of supposed great
+men instead of arguments. It is perfectly astonishing
+to the average preacher that any one should have the
+temerity to differ, on the subject of theology, with
+Andrew Jackson, Daniel Webster, and other gentlemen
+eminent for piety during their lives, but who,
+as a rule, expressed their theological opinions a few
+minutes before dissolution. These ministers are per-
+fectly delighted to have some great politician, some
+judge, soldier, or president, certify to the truth of the
+Bible and to the moral character of Jesus Christ.
+
+Mr. Talmage insists that if a witness is false in one
+particular, his entire testimony must be thrown away.
+Daniel Webster was in favor of the Fugitive Slave
+Law, and thought it the duty of the North to capture
+the poor slave-mother. He was willing to stand
+between a human being and his freedom. He was
+willing to assist in compelling persons to work without
+any pay except such marks of the lash as they might
+receive. Yet this man is brought forward as a witness
+for the truth of the gospel. If he was false in his
+testimony as to liberty, what is his affidavit worth as
+to the value of Christianity? Andrew Jackson was a
+brave man, a good general, a patriot second to none,
+
+17
+
+an excellent judge of horses, and a brave duelist. I
+admit that in his old age he relied considerably upon
+the atonement. I think Jackson was really a very great
+man, and probably no President impressed himself
+more deeply upon the American people than the hero
+of New Orleans, but as a theologian he was, in my
+judgment, a most decided failure, and his opinion as
+to the authenticity of the Scriptures is of no earthly
+value. It was a subject upon which he knew probably
+as little as Mr. Talmage does about modern infidelity.
+Thousands of people will quote Jackson in favor of
+religion, about which he knew nothing, and yet have
+no confidence in his political opinions, although he
+devoted the best part of his life to politics.
+
+No man should quote the words of another, in place
+of an argument, unless he is willing to accept all the
+opinions of that man. Lord Bacon denied the Copernican
+
+system of astronomy, and, according to Mr.
+Talmage, having made that mistake, his opinions upon
+other subjects are equally worthless. Mr. Wesley
+believed in ghosts, witches, and personal devils, yet
+upon many subjects I have no doubt his opinions were
+correct. The truth is, that nearly everybody is right
+about some things and wrong about most things; and
+if a man's testimony is not to be taken until he is
+
+18
+
+right on every subject, witnesses will be extremely
+scarce.
+
+Personally, I care nothing about names. It makes
+no difference to me what the supposed great men of
+the past have said, except as what they have said
+contains an argument; and that argument is worth to
+me the force it naturally has upon my mind. Chris-
+tians forget that in the realm of reason there are no
+serfs and no monarchs. When you submit to an
+argument, you do not submit to the man who made it.
+Christianity demands a certain obedience, a certain
+blind, unreasoning faith, and parades before the eyes
+of the ignorant, with great pomp and pride, the names
+of kings, soldiers, and statesmen who have admitted
+the truth of the Bible. Mr. Talmage introduces as a
+witness the Rev. Theodore Parker. This same The-
+odore Parker denounced the Presbyterian creed as
+the most infamous of all creeds, and said that the worst
+heathen god, wearing a necklace of live snakes, was a
+representation of mercy when compared with the God
+of John Calvin. Now, if this witness is false in any
+particular, of course he cannot be believed, according
+to Mr. Talmage, upon any subject, and yet Mr.
+Talmage introduces him upon the stand as a good
+witness.
+
+19
+
+Although I care but little for names, still I will sug-
+gest that, in all probability, Humboldt knew more upon
+this subject than all the pastors in the world. I cer-
+tainly would have as much confidence in the opinion
+of Goethe as in that of William H. Seward; and as
+between Seward and Lincoln, I should take Lincoln;
+and when you come to Presidents, for my part, if I
+were compelled to pin my faith on the sleeve of any-
+body, I should take Jefferson's coat in preference to
+Jackson's. I believe that Haeckel is, to say the least,
+the equal of any theologian we have in this country,
+and the late John W. Draper certainly knew as much
+upon these great questions as the average parson. I
+believe that Darwin has investigated some of these
+things, that Tyndall and Huxley have turned their
+minds somewhat in the same direction, that Helmholtz
+has a few opinions, and that, in fact, thousands of able,
+intelligent and honest men differ almost entirely with
+Webster and Jackson.
+
+So far as I am concerned, I think more of reasons
+than of reputations, more of principles than of persons,
+more of nature than of names, more of facts, than of
+faiths.
+
+It is the same with books as with persons. Proba-
+bly there is not a book in the world entirely destitute
+
+20
+
+of truth, and not one entirely exempt from error.
+The Bible is like other books. There are mistakes in
+it, side by side with truths,--passages inculcating
+murder, and others exalting mercy; laws devilish and
+tyrannical, and others filled with wisdom and justice.
+It is foolish to say that if you accept a part, you must
+accept the whole. You must accept that which com-
+mends itself to your heart and brain. There never was
+a doctrine that a witness, or a book, should be thrown
+entirely away, because false in one particular. If in
+any particular the book, or the man, tells the truth, to
+that extent the truth should be accepted.
+
+Truth is made no worse by the one who tells it,
+and a lie gets no real benefit from the reputation of its
+author.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the statement
+that a general belief in your teachings would fill all
+the penitentiaries, and that in twenty years there
+would be a hell in this world worse than the one
+expected in the other?
+
+_Answer_. My creed is this:
+
+1. Happiness is the only good.
+
+2. The way to be happy, is to make others happy.
+
+21
+
+Other things being equal, that man is happiest who is
+nearest just--who is truthful, merciful and intelligent--
+in other words, the one who lives in accordance with
+the conditions of life.
+
+3. The time to be happy is now, and the place to
+be happy, is here.
+
+4. Reason is the lamp of the mind--the only torch
+of progress; and instead of blowing that out and de-
+pending upon darkness and dogma, it is far better to
+increase that sacred light.
+
+5. Every man should be the intellectual proprietor
+of himself, honest with himself, and intellectually
+hospitable; and upon every brain reason should be
+enthroned as king.
+
+6. Every man must bear the consequences, at
+least of his own actions. If he puts his hands in
+the fire, his hands must smart, and not the hands of
+another. In other words: each man must eat the
+fruit of the tree he plants.
+
+I can not conceive that the teaching of these doc-
+trines would fill penitentiaries, or crowd the gallows.
+The doctrine of forgiveness--the idea that somebody
+else can suffer in place of the guilty--the notion that
+just at the last the whole account can be settled--
+these ideas, doctrines, and notions are calculated to fill
+
+22
+
+penitentiaries. Nothing breeds extravagance like the
+credit system.
+
+Most criminals of the present day are orthodox be-
+lievers, and the gallows seems to be the last round of
+the ladder reaching from earth to heaven. The Rev.
+Dr. Sunderland, of this city, in his sermon on the assas-
+sination of Garfield, takes the ground that God per-
+mitted the murder for the purpose of opening the eyes
+of the people to the evil effects of infidelity. Accord-
+ing to this minister, God, in order to show his hatred
+of infidelity, "inspired," or allowed, one Christian to
+assassinate another.
+
+Religion and morality do not necessarily go together.
+Mr. Talmage will insist to-day that morality is not
+sufficient to save any man from eternal punishment.
+As a matter of fact, religion has often been the enemy
+of morality. The moralist has been denounced by the
+theologians. He sustains the same relation to Chris-
+tianity that the moderate drinker does to the total-
+abstinence society. The total-abstinence people say
+that the example of the moderate drinker is far worse
+upon the young than that of the drunkard--that the
+drunkard is a warning, while the moderate drinker is
+a perpetual temptation. So Christians say of moral-
+ists. According to them, the moralist sets a worse
+
+23
+
+example than the criminal. The moralist not only in-
+sists that a man can be a good citizen, a kind husband,
+an affectionate father, without religion, but demon-
+strates the truth of his doctrine by his own life;
+whereas the criminal admits that in and of himself he
+is nothing, and can do nothing, but that he needs
+assistance from the church and its ministers.
+
+The worst criminals of the modern world have been
+Christians--I mean by that, believers in Christianity--
+and the most monstrous crimes of the modern world
+have been committed by the most zealous believers.
+There is nothing in orthodox religion, apart from the
+morality it teaches, to prevent the commission oF crime.
+On the other hand, the perpetual proffer of forgiveness
+is a direct premium upon what Christians are pleased
+to call the commission of sin.
+
+Christianity has produced no greater character than
+Epictetus, no greater sovereign than Marcus Aurelius.
+The wickedness of the past was a good deal like that
+of the present. As a rule, kings have been wicked in
+direct proportion to their power--their power having
+been lessened, their crimes have decreased. As a
+matter of fact, paganism, of itself, did not produce any
+great men; neither has Christianity. Millions of in-
+fluences determine individual character, and the re-
+
+24
+
+ligion of the country in which a man happens to be
+born may determine many of his opinions, without
+influencing, to any great extent, his real character.
+
+There have been brave, honest, and intelligent men
+in and out of every church.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage says that you insist that,
+according to the Bible, the universe was made out of
+nothing, and he denounces your statement as a gross
+misrepresentation. What have you stated upon that
+subject?
+
+_Answer_. What I said was substantially this: "We
+"are told in the first chapter of Genesis, that in the
+"beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
+"If this means anything, it means that God pro-
+"duced--caused to exist, called into being--the
+"heaven and the earth. It will not do to say that
+"God formed the heaven and the earth of previously
+"existing matter. Moses conveys, and intended to
+"convey, the idea that the matter of which the
+"universe is composed was created."
+
+This has always been my position. I did not sup-
+pose that nothing was used as the raw material; but
+
+if the Mosaic account means anything, it means that
+whereas there was nothing, God caused something to
+
+25
+
+exist--created what we know as matter. I can not
+conceive of something being made, created, without
+anything to make anything with. I have no more
+confidence in fiat worlds than I have in fiat money.
+Mr. Talmage tells us that God did not make the uni-
+verse out of _nothing_, but out of "omnipotence."
+Exactly how God changed "omnipotence" into matter
+is not stated. If there was _nothing_ in the universe,
+_omnipotence_ could do you no good. The weakest man
+in the world can lift as much _nothing_ as God.
+
+Mr. Talmage seems to think that to create something
+from nothing is simply a question of strength--that it
+requires infinite muscle--that it is only a question of
+biceps. Of course, omnipotence is an attribute, not an
+entity, not a raw material; and the idea that something
+can be made out of omnipotence--using that as the
+raw material--is infinitely absurd. It would have
+been equally logical to say that God made the universe
+out of his omniscience, or his omnipresence, or his
+unchangeableness, or out of his honesty, his holiness,
+or his incapacity to do evil. I confess my utter in-
+ability to understand, or even to suspect, what the
+reverend gentleman means, when he says that God
+created the universe out of his "omnipotence."
+
+I admit that the Bible does not tell when God created
+
+26
+
+the universe. It is simply said that he did this "in the
+beginning." We are left, however, to infer that "the
+beginning" was Monday morning, and that on the
+first Monday God created the matter in an exceedingly
+chaotic state; that on Tuesday he made a firmament
+to divide the waters from the waters; that on Wednes-
+day he gathered the waters together in seas and
+allowed the dry land to appear. We are also told that
+on that day "the earth brought forth grass and herb
+"yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding
+"fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind." This
+was before the creation of the sun, but Mr. Talmage
+takes the ground that there are many other sources of
+light; that "there may have been volcanoes in active
+operation on other planets." I have my doubts,
+however, about the light of volcanoes being sufficient
+to produce or sustain vegetable life, and think it a
+little doubtful about trees growing only by "volcanic
+glare." Neither do I think one could depend upon
+"three thousand miles of liquid granite" for the pro-
+duction of grass and trees, nor upon "light that rocks
+might emit in the process of crystallization." I doubt
+whether trees would succeed simply with the assistance
+of the "Aurora Borealis or the Aurora Australis."
+There are other sources of light, not mentioned by
+
+27
+
+Mr. Talmage--lightning-bugs, phosphorescent beetles,
+and fox-fire. I should think that it would be humili-
+ating, in this age, for an orthodox preacher to insist
+that vegetation could exist upon this planet without the
+light of the sun--that trees could grow, blossom and
+bear fruit, having no light but the flames of volcanoes,
+or that emitted by liquid granite, or thrown off by the
+crystallization of rocks.
+
+There is another thing, also, that should not be for-
+gotten, and that is, that there is an even balance for-
+ever kept between the totals of animal and vegetable
+life--that certain forms of animal life go with certain
+forms of vegetable life. Mr. Haeckel has shown that
+"in the first epoch, algæ and skull-less vertebrates
+were found together; in the second, ferns and fishes;
+in the third, pines and reptiles; in the fourth, foliaceous
+
+forests and mammals." Vegetable and animal
+life sustain a necessary relation; they exist together;
+they act and interact, and each depends upon the other.
+The real point of difference between Mr. Talmage and
+myself is this: He says that God made the universe
+out of his "omnipotence," and I say that, although I
+know nothing whatever upon the subject, my opinion
+is, that the universe has existed from eternity--that it
+continually changes in form, but that it never was
+
+28
+
+created or called into being by any power. I think
+that all that is, is all the God there is.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with having
+misrepresented the Bible story of the deluge. Has he
+correctly stated your position?
+
+_Answer_. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that the
+flood was only partial, and was, after all, not much of a
+flood. The Bible tells us that God said he would
+"destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life from
+"under heaven, and that everything that is in the
+"earth shall die;" that God also said: "I will destroy
+"man, whom I have created, from the face of the
+"earth; both man and beast and the creeping thing
+"and the fowls of the air, and every living substance
+"that I have made will I destroy from off the face of
+"the earth."
+
+I did not suppose that there was any miracle in the
+Bible larger than the credulity of Mr. Talmage. The
+flood story, however, seems to be a little more than
+he can bear. He is like the witness who stated that
+he had read _Gullivers Travels_, the _Stories of Mun-
+chausen_, and the _Flying Wife_, including _Robinson
+Crusoe_, and believed them all; but that Wirt's _Life of
+Patrick Henry_ was a litde more than he could stand.
+
+29
+
+It is strange that a man who believes that God
+created the universe out of "omnipotence" should
+believe that he had not enough omnipotence left to
+drown a world the size of this. Mr. Talmage seeks
+to make the story of the flood reasonable. The
+moment it is reasonable, it ceases to be miraculous.
+Certainly God cannot afford to reward a man with
+eternal joy for believing a reasonable story. Faith is
+only necessary when the story is unreasonable, and if
+the flood only gets small enough, I can believe it
+myself. I ask for evidence, and Mr. Talmage seeks
+to make the story so little that it can be believed
+without evidence. He tells us that it was a kind of
+"local option" flood--a little wet for that part of the
+country.
+
+Why was it necessary to save the birds? They
+certainly could have gotten out of the way of a real
+small flood. Of the birds, Noah took fourteen of each
+species. He was commanded to take of the fowls of the
+air by sevens--seven of each sex--and, as there are
+at least 12,500 species, Noah collected an aviary of
+about 175,000 birds, provided the flood was general.
+If it was local, there are no means of determining the
+number. But why, if the flood was local, should he
+have taken any of the fowls of the air into his ark?
+
+30
+
+All they had to do was to fly away, or "roost high;"
+and it would have been just as easy for God to have
+implanted in them, for the moment, the instinct of
+getting out of the way as the instinct of hunting the ark.
+It would have been quite a saving of room and pro-
+visions, and would have materially lessened the labor
+and anxiety of Noah and his sons.
+
+Besides, if it had been a partial flood, and great
+enough to cover the highest mountains in that country,
+the highest mountain being about seventeen thousand
+feet, the flood would have been covered with a sheet
+of ice several thousand feet in thickness. If a column
+of water could have been thrown seventeen thousand
+feet high and kept stationary, several thousand feet
+of the upper end would have frozen. If, however,
+the deluge was general, then the atmosphere would
+have been forced out the same on all sides, and the
+climate remained substantially normal.
+
+Nothing can be more absurd than to attempt to
+explain the flood by calling it partial.
+
+Mr. Talmage also says that the window ran clear
+round the ark, and that if I had only known as much
+Hebrew as a man could put on his little finger, I
+would have known that the window went clear round.
+To this I reply that, if his position is correct, then the
+
+31
+
+original translators of King James' edition did not
+know as much Hebrew as they could have put on
+their little fingers; and yet I am obliged to believe
+their translation or be eternally damned. If the
+window went clear round, the inspired writer should
+have said so, and the learned translators should have
+given us the truth. No one pretends that there was
+more than one door, and yet the same language is
+used about the door, except this--that the exact size
+of the window is given, and the only peculiarity men-
+tioned as to the door is that it shut from the outside.
+For any one to see that Mr. Talmage is wrong on the
+window question, it is only necessary to read the story
+of the deluge.
+
+Mr. Talmage also endeavors to decrease the depth
+of the flood. If the flood did not cover the highest
+hills, many people might have been saved. He also
+insists that all the water did not come from the rains,
+but that "the fountains of the great deep were broken
+"up." What are "the fountains of the great deep"?
+How would their being "broken up" increase the
+depth of the water? He seems to imagine that these
+"fountains" were in some way imprisoned--anxious
+to get to the surface, and that, at that time, an oppor-
+tunity was given for water to run up hill, or in some
+
+32
+
+mysterious way to rise above its level. According to
+the account, the ark was at the mercy of the waves for
+at least seven months. If this flood was only partial,
+it seems a little curious that the water did not seek its
+level in less than seven months. With anything like
+a fair chance, by that time most of it would have
+found its way to the sea again.
+
+There is in the literature of ignorance no more
+perfectly absurd and cruel story than that of the
+deluge.
+
+I am very sorry that Mr. Talmage should disagree
+with some of the great commentators. Dr. Scott
+tells us that, in all probability, the angels assisted in
+getting the animals into the ark. Dr. Henry insists
+that the waters in the bowels of the earth, at God's
+command, sprung up and flooded the earth. Dr.
+Clark tells us that it would have been much easier
+for God to have destroyed all the people and made
+some new ones, but that he did not want to waste
+anything. Dr. Henry also tells us that the lions, while
+in the ark, ate straw like oxen. Nothing could be
+more amusing than to see a few lions eating good,
+dry straw. This commentator assures us that the
+waters rose so high that the loftiest mountains were
+overflowed fifteen cubits, so that salvation was not
+
+33
+
+hoped for from any hills or mountains. He tells us
+that some of the people got on top of the ark, and
+hoped to shift for themselves, but that, in all proba-
+bility, they were washed off by the rain. When we
+consider that the rain must have fallen at the rate of
+about eight hundred feet a day, I am inclined to think
+that they were washed off.
+
+Mr. Talmage has clearly misrepresented the Bible.
+He is not prepared to believe the story as it is told.
+The seeds of infidelity seem to be germinating in his
+mind. His position no doubt will be a great relief to
+most of his hearers. After this, their credulity will
+not be strained. They can say that there was probably
+quite a storm, some rain, to an extent that rendered it
+necessary for Noah and his family--his dogs, cats,
+and chickens--to get in a boat. This would not be
+unreasonable. The same thing happens almost every
+year on the shores of great rivers, and consequently
+the story of the flood is an exceedingly reasonable
+one.
+
+Mr. Talmage also endeavors to account for the
+miraculous collection of the animals in the ark by
+the universal instinct to get out of the rain. There
+are at least two objections to this: 1. The animals
+went into the ark before the rain commenced; 2. I
+
+34
+
+have never noticed any great desire on the part of
+ducks, geese, and loons to get out of the water. Mr.
+Talmage must have been misled by a line from an old
+nursery book that says: "And the little fishes got
+"under the bridge to keep out of the rain." He tells
+us that Noah described what he saw. He is the first
+theologian who claims that Genesis was written by
+Noah, or that Noah wrote any account of the flood.
+Most Christians insist that the account of the flood
+was written by Moses, and that he was inspired to
+write it. Of course, it will not do for me to say that
+Mr. Talmage has misrepresented the facts.
+
+_Question_. You are also charged with misrepresen-
+tation in your statement as to where the ark at last
+rested. It is claimed by Mr. Talmage that there is
+nothing in the Bible to show that the ark rested on
+the highest mountains.
+
+_Answer_. Of course I have no knowledge as to
+where the ark really came to anchor, but after it struck
+bottom, we are told that a dove was sent out, and
+that the dove found no place whereon to rest her
+foot. If the ark touched ground in the low country,
+surely the mountains were out of water, and an or-
+dinary mountain furnishes, as a rule, space enough
+
+35
+
+for a dove's foot. We must infer that the ark rested
+on the only land then above water, or near enough
+above water to strike the keel of Noah's boat. Mount
+Ararat is about seventeen thousand feet high; so I
+take it that the top of that mountain was where Noah
+ran aground--otherwise, the account means nothing.
+
+Here Mr. Talmage again shows his tendency to
+belittle the miracles of the Bible. I am astonished
+that he should doubt the power of God to keep an
+ark on a mountain seventeen thousand feet high.
+He could have changed the climate for that occasion.
+He could have made all the rocks and glaciers pro-
+duce wheat and corn in abundance. Certainly God,
+who could overwhelm a world with a flood, had the
+power to change every law and fact in nature.
+
+I am surprised that Mr. Talmage is not willing to
+believe the story as it is told. What right has he to
+question the statements of an inspired writer? Why
+should he set up his judgment against the Websters
+and Jacksons? Is it not infinitely impudent in him
+to contrast his penny-dip with the sun of inspiration?
+What right has he to any opinion upon the subject?
+He must take the Bible as it reads. He should
+remember that the greater the miracle the greater
+should be his faith.
+
+36
+
+_Question_. You do not seem to have any great
+opinion of the chemical, geological, and agricultural
+views expressed by Mr. Talmage?
+
+_Answer_. You must remember that Mr. Talmage
+has a certain thing to defend. He takes the Bible as
+actually true, and with the Bible as his standard, he
+compares and measures all sciences. He does not
+study geology to find whether the Mosaic account is
+true, but he reads the Mosaic account for the purpose
+of showing that geology can not be depended upon.
+His idea that "one day is as a thousand years with
+"God," and that therefore the "days" mentioned in the
+Mosaic account are not days of twenty-four hours, but
+long periods, is contradicted by the Bible itself. The
+great reason given for keeping the Sabbath day is, that
+"God rested on the seventh day and was refreshed."
+Now, it does not say that he rested on the "seventh
+"period," or the "seventh good--while," or the
+"seventh long-time," but on the "seventh day." In
+imitation of this example we are also to rest--not on
+the seventh good-while, but on the seventh day.
+Nothing delights the average minister more than to
+find that a passage of Scripture is capable of several
+interpretations. Nothing in the inspired book is so
+
+37
+
+dangerous as accuracy. If the holy writer uses
+general terms, an ingenious theologian can harmonize
+a seemingly preposterous statement with the most
+obdurate fact. An "inspired" book should contain
+neither statistics nor dates--as few names as possible,
+and not one word about geology or astronomy. Mr.
+Talmage is doing the best he can to uphold the fables
+of the Jews. They are the foundation of his faith.
+He believes in the water of the past and the fire of the
+future--in the God of flood and flame--the eternal
+torturer of his helpless children.
+
+It is exceedingly unfortunate that Mr. Talmage does
+not appreciate the importance of good manners, that
+he does not rightly estimate the convincing power of
+kindness and good nature. It is unfortunate that a
+Christian, believing in universal forgiveness, should
+exhibit so much of the spirit of detraction, that he
+should run so easily and naturally into epithets, and
+that he should mistake vituperation for logic. Thou-
+sands of people, knowing but little of the mysteries of
+Christianity--never having studied theology,--may
+become prejudiced against the church, and doubt the
+divine origin of a religion whose defenders seem to
+rely, at least to a great degree, upon malignant per-
+sonalities. Mr. Talmage should remember that in a
+
+38
+
+discussion of this kind, he is supposed to represent a
+being of infinite wisdom and goodness. Surely, the
+representative of the infinite can afford to be candid,
+can afford to be kind. When he contemplates the
+condition of a fellow-being destitute of religion, a
+fellow-being now travelling the thorny path to eternal
+fire, he should be filled with pity instead of hate.
+Instead of deforming his mouth with scorn, his eyes
+should be filled with tears. He should take into
+consideration the vast difference between an infidel
+and a minister of the gospel,--knowing, as he does,
+that a crown of glory has been prepared for the
+minister, and that flames are waiting for the soul
+of the unbeliever. He should bear with philosophic
+fortitude the apparent success of the skeptic, for a
+few days in this brief life, since he knows that in a
+little while the question will be eternally settled in
+his favor, and that the humiliation of a day is as
+nothing compared with the victory of eternity. In
+this world, the skeptic appears to have the best
+of the argument; logic seems to be on the side
+of blasphemy; common sense apparently goes hand
+in hand with infidelity, and the few things we are
+absolutely certain of, seem inconsistent with the
+Christian creeds.
+
+39
+
+This, however, as Mr. Talmage well knows, is but
+apparent. God has arranged the world in this way
+for the purpose of testing the Christian's faith.
+Beyond all these facts, beyond logic, beyond reason,
+Mr. Talmage, by the light of faith, clearly sees the
+eternal truth. This clearness of vision should give
+him the serenity of candor and the kindness born of
+absolute knowledge. He, being a child of the light,
+should not expect the perfect from the children of
+darkness. He should not judge Humboldt and
+Wesley by the same standard. He should remember
+that Wesley was especially set apart and illuminated
+by divine wisdom, while Humboldt was left to grope
+in the shadows of nature. He should also remember
+that ministers are not like other people. They have
+been "called." They have been "chosen" by infinite
+wisdom. They have been "set apart," and they
+have bread to eat that we know not of. While
+other people are forced to pursue the difficult paths
+of investigation, they fly with the wings of faith.
+
+Mr. Talmage is perfectly aware of the advantages
+he enjoys, and yet he deems it dangerous to be fair.
+This, in my judgment, is his mistake. If he cannot
+easily point out the absurdities and contradictions in
+infidel lectures, surely God would never have selected
+
+40
+
+him for that task. We cannot believe that imperfect
+instruments would be chosen by infinite wisdom.
+Certain lambs have been entrusted to the care of Mr.
+Talmage, the shepherd. Certainly God would not
+select a shepherd unable to cope with an average
+wolf. Such a shepherd is only the appearance of
+protection. When the wolf is not there, he is a
+useless expense, and when the wolf comes, he goes.
+I cannot believe that God would select a shepherd
+of that kind. Neither can the shepherd justify his
+selection by abusing the wolf when out of sight.
+The fear ought to be on the other side. A divinely
+appointed shepherd ought to be able to convince his
+sheep that a wolf is a dangerous animal, and ought
+to be able to give his reasons. It may be that the
+shepherd has a certain interest in exaggerating the
+cruelty and ferocity of the wolf, and even the number
+of the wolves. Should it turn out that the wolves
+exist only in the imagination of the shepherd, the
+sheep might refuse to pay the salary of their pro-
+tector. It will, however, be hard to calculate the
+extent to which the sheep will lose confidence in a
+shepherd who has not even the courage to state the
+facts about the wolf. But what must be the result
+when the sheep find that the supposed wolf is, in
+
+41
+
+fact, their friend, and that he is endeavoring to rescue
+them from the exactions of the pretended shepherd,
+who creates, by falsehood, the fear on which he
+lives?
+
+
+
+
+SECOND INTERVIEW.
+
+
+_Por. Why, man, what's the matter? Don't tear
+your hair.
+
+Sir Hugh. I have been beaten in a discussion,
+overwhelmed and humiliated.
+
+Por. Why didn't you call your adversary a fool?
+
+Sir Hugh. My God! I forgot it!_
+
+_Question_. I want to ask you a few questions
+about the second sermon of Mr. Talmage;
+have you read it, and what do you think of it?
+
+_Answer_. The text taken by the reverend gentle-
+man is an insult, and was probably intended as such:
+"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."
+Mr. Talmage seeks to apply this text to any one
+who denies that the Jehovah of the Jews was and is
+the infinite and eternal Creator of all. He is per-
+fectly satisfied that any man who differs with him on
+this question is a "fool," and he has the Christian
+forbearance and kindness to say so. I presume he
+
+46
+
+is honest in this opinion, and no doubt regards Bruno,
+Spinoza and Humboldt as driveling imbeciles. He
+entertains the same opinion of some of the greatest,
+wisest and best of Greece and Rome.
+
+No man is fitted to reason upon this question who
+has not the intelligence to see the difficulties in all
+theories. No man has yet evolved a theory that
+satisfactorily accounts for all that is. No matter
+what his opinion may be, he is beset by a thousand
+difficulties, and innumerable things insist upon an
+explanation. The best that any man can do is to
+take that theory which to his mind presents the
+fewest difficulties. Mr. Talmage has been educated
+in a certain way--has a brain of a certain quantity,
+quality and form--and accepts, in spite it may be,
+of himself, a certain theory. Others, formed differ-
+ently, having lived under different circumstances,
+cannot accept the Talmagian view, and thereupon he
+denounces them as fools. In this he follows the
+example of David the murderer; of David, who
+advised one of his children to assassinate another;
+of David, whose last words were those of hate and
+crime. Mr. Talmage insists that it takes no especial
+brain to reason out a "design" in Nature, and in a
+moment afterward says that "when the world slew
+
+47
+
+"Jesus, it showed what it would do with the eternal
+"God, if once it could get its hands on Him." Why
+should a God of infinite wisdom create people who
+would gladly murder their Creator? Was there any
+particular "design" in that? Does the existence
+of such people conclusively prove the existence of a
+good Designer? It seems to me--and I take it that
+my thought is natural, as I have only been born
+once--that an infinitely wise and good God would
+naturally create good people, and if he has not, cer-
+tainly the fault is his. The God of Mr. Talmage
+knew, when he created Guiteau, that he would
+assassinate Garfield. Why did he create him? Did
+he want Garfield assassinated? Will somebody be
+kind enough to show the "design" in this trans-
+action? Is it possible to see "design" in earth-
+quakes, in volcanoes, in pestilence, in famine, in
+ruthless and relentless war? Can we find "design" in
+the fact that every animal lives upon some other--
+that every drop of every sea is a battlefield where
+the strong devour the weak? Over the precipice
+of cruelty rolls a perpetual Niagara of blood. Is
+there "design" in this? Why should a good God
+people a world with men capable of burning their
+fellow-men--and capable of burning the greatest and
+
+48
+
+best? Why does a good God permit these things?
+It is said of Christ that he was infinitely kind and
+generous, infinitely merciful, because when on earth
+he cured the sick, the lame and blind. Has he not
+as much power now as he had then? If he was and
+is the God of all worlds, why does he not now give
+back to the widow her son? Why does he with-
+hold light from the eyes of the blind? And why
+does one who had the power miraculously to feed
+thousands, allow millions to die for want of food?
+Did Christ only have pity when he was part human?
+Are we indebted for his kindness to the flesh that
+clothed his spirit? Where is he now? Where has he
+been through all the centuries of slavery and crime?
+If this universe was "designed," then all that
+happens was "designed." If a man constructs an
+engine, the boiler of which explodes, we say either
+that he did not know the strength of his materials, or
+that he was reckless of human life. If an infinite being
+should construct a weak or imperfect machine, he must
+be held accountable for all that happens. He cannot
+be permitted to say that he did not know the strength
+of the materials. He is directly and absolutely re-
+sponsible. So, if this world was designed by a being
+of infinite power and wisdom, he is responsible for
+
+49
+
+the result of that design. My position is this: I do
+not know. But there are so many objections to the
+personal-God theory, that it is impossible for me to
+accept it. I prefer to say that the universe is all the
+God there is. I prefer to make no being responsible.
+I prefer to say: If the naked are clothed, man
+must clothe them; if the hungry are fed, man must
+feed them. I prefer to rely upon human endeavor,
+upon human intelligence, upon the heart and brain
+of man. There is no evidence that God has ever
+interfered in the affairs of man. The hand of earth
+is stretched uselessly toward heaven. From the
+clouds there comes no help. In vain the shipwrecked
+cry to God. In vain the imprisoned ask for liberty
+and light--the world moves on, and the heavens are
+deaf and dumb and blind. The frost freezes, the fire
+burns, slander smites, the wrong triumphs, the good
+suffer, and prayer dies upon the lips of faith.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with being
+"the champion blasphemer of America"--what do
+you understand blasphemy to be?
+
+_Answer_. Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by su-
+perstition upon common sense. Whoever investi-
+gates a religion as he would any department of
+
+50
+
+science, is called a blasphemer. Whoever contradicts
+a priest, whoever has the impudence to use his own
+reason, whoever is brave enough to express his
+honest thought, is a blasphemer in the eyes of the
+religionist. When a missionary speaks slightingly of
+the wooden god of a savage, the savage regards him
+as a blasphemer. To laugh at the pretensions of
+Mohammed in Constantinople is blasphemy. To say
+in St. Petersburg that Mohammed was a prophet of
+God is also blasphemy. There was a time when to
+acknowledge the divinity of Christ in Jerusalem was
+blasphemy. To deny his divinity is now blasphemy
+in New York. Blasphemy is to a considerable extent
+a geographical question. It depends not only on what
+you say, but where you are when you say it. Blas-
+phemy is what the old calls the new,--what last
+year's leaf says to this year's bud. The founder of
+every religion was a blasphemer. The Jews so re-
+garded Christ, and the Athenians had the same
+opinion of Socrates. Catholics have always looked
+upon Protestants as blasphemers, and Protestants have
+always held the same generous opinion of Catholics.
+To deny that Mary is the Mother of God is blas-
+phemy. To say that she is the Mother of God is
+blasphemy. Some savages think that a dried snake-
+
+51
+
+skin stuffed with leaves is sacred, and he who thinks
+otherwise is a blasphemer. It was once blasphemy
+to laugh at Diana, of the Ephesians. Many people
+think that it is blasphemous to tell your real opinion
+of the Jewish Jehovah. Others imagine that words
+can be printed upon paper, and the paper bound into
+a book covered with sheepskin, and that the book is
+sacred, and that to question its sacredness is blas-
+phemy. Blasphemy is also a crime against God, but
+nothing can be more absurd than a crime against
+God. If God is infinite, you cannot injure him. You
+cannot commit a crime against any being that you
+cannot injure. Of course, the infinite cannot be in-
+jured. Man is a conditioned being. By changing
+his conditions, his surroundings, you can injure him;
+but if God is infinite, he is conditionless. If he is
+conditionless, he cannot by any possibility be injured.
+You can neither increase, nor decrease, the well-being
+of the infinite. Consequently, a crime against God
+is a demonstrated impossibility. The cry of blasphemy
+means only that the argument of the blasphemer can-
+not be answered. The sleight-of-hand performer,
+when some one tries to raise the curtain behind which
+he operates, cries "blasphemer!" The priest, find-
+ing that he has been attacked by common sense,--
+
+52
+
+by a fact,--resorts to the same cry. Blasphemy is the
+black flag of theology, and it means: No argument
+and no quarter! It is an appeal to prejudice, to
+passions, to ignorance. It is the last resort of a
+defeated priest. Blasphemy marks the point where
+argument stops and slander begins. In old times, it
+was the signal for throwing stones, for gathering
+fagots and for tearing flesh; now it means falsehood
+and calumny.
+
+_Question_. Then you think that there is no such
+thing as the crime of blasphemy, and that no such
+offence can be committed?
+
+_Answer_. Any one who knowingly speaks in favor
+of injustice is a blasphemer. Whoever wishes to
+destroy liberty of thought,--the honest expression of
+ideas,--is a blasphemer. Whoever is willing to malign
+his neighbor, simply because he differs with him upon
+a subject about which neither of them knows anything
+for certain, is a blasphemer. If a crime can be com-
+mitted against God, he commits it who imputes to
+God the commission of crime. The man who says
+that God ordered the assassination of women and
+babes, that he gave maidens to satisfy the lust of
+soldiers, that he enslaved his own children,--that man
+
+53
+
+is a blasphemer. In my judgment, it would be far
+better to deny the existence of God entirely. It
+seems to me that every man ought to give his honest
+opinion. No man should suppose that any infinite
+God requires him to tell as truth that which he knows
+nothing about.
+
+Mr. Talmage, in order to make a point against
+infidelity, states from his pulpit that I am in favor of
+poisoning the minds of children by the circulation of
+immoral books. The statement is entirely false. He
+ought to have known that I withdrew from the Liberal
+League upon the very question whether the law should
+be repealed or modified. I favored a modification
+of that law, so that books and papers could not be
+thrown from the mails simply because they were
+"infidel."
+
+I was and am in favor of the destruction of
+every immoral book in the world. I was and am
+in favor, not only of the law against the circulation
+of such filth, but want it executed to the letter in every
+State of this Union. Long before he made that state-
+ment, I had introduced a resolution to that effect, and
+supported the resolution in a speech. Notwithstand-
+ing these facts, hundreds of clergymen have made
+haste to tell the exact opposite of the truth. This
+
+54
+
+they have done in the name of Christianity, under the
+pretence of pleasing their God. In my judgment, it
+is far better to tell your honest opinions, even upon
+the subject of theology, than to knowingly tell a false-
+hood about a fellow-man. Mr. Talmage may have
+been ignorant of the truth. He may have been misled
+by other ministers, and for his benefit I make this ex-
+planation. I wanted the laws modified so that bigotry
+could not interfere with the literature of intelligence;
+but I did not want, in any way, to shield the writers or
+publishers of immoral books. Upon this subject I
+used, at the last meeting of the Liberal League that
+I attended, the following language:
+
+"But there is a distinction wide as the Mississippi,
+"yes, wider than the Atlantic, wider than all oceans,
+"between the literature of immorality and the litera-
+"ture of free thought. One is a crawling, slimy lizard,
+"and the other an angel with wings of light. Let us
+"draw this distinction. Let us understand ourselves.
+"Do not make the wholesale statement that all these
+"laws ought to be repealed. They ought not to be
+"repealed. Some of them are good, and the law
+"against sending instruments of vice through the
+"mails is good. The law against sending obscene
+"pictures and books is good. The law against send-
+
+55
+
+"ing bogus diplomas through the mails, to allow a
+"lot of ignorant hyenas to prey upon the sick people
+"of the world, is a good law. The law against rascals
+"who are getting up bogus lotteries, and sending their
+"circulars in the mails is a good law. You know, as
+"well as I, that there are certain books not fit to go
+"through the mails. You know that. You know there
+"are certain pictures not fit to be transmitted, not fit
+"to be delivered to any human being. When these
+"books and pictures come into the control of the
+"United States, I say, burn them up! And when any
+"man has been indicted who has been trying to make
+"money by pandering to the lowest passions in the
+"human breast, then I say, prosecute him! let the
+"law take its course."
+
+I can hardly convince myself that when Mr.
+Talmage made the charge, he was acquainted with
+the facts. It seems incredible that any man, pre-
+tending to be governed by the law of common
+honesty, could make a charge like this knowing
+it to be untrue. Under no circumstances, would
+I charge Mr. Talmage with being an infamous
+man, unless the evidence was complete and over-
+whelming. Even then, I should hesitate long before
+making the charge. The side I take on theological
+
+56
+
+questions does not render a resort to slander or
+calumny a necessity. If Mr. Talmage is an honor-
+able man, he will take back the statement he has
+made. Even if there is a God, I hardly think that
+he will reward one of his children for maligning
+another; and to one who has told falsehoods about
+"infidels," that having been his only virtue, I doubt
+whether he will say: "Well done good and faithful
+"servant."
+
+_Question_. What have you to say to the charge
+that you are endeavoring to "assassinate God,"
+and that you are "far worse than the man who at-
+"tempts to kill his father, or his mother, or his sister,
+"or his brother"?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I think that is about as reason-
+able as anything he says. No one wishes, so far as I
+know, to assassinate God. The idea of assassinating
+an infinite being is of course infinitely absurd. One
+would think Mr. Talmage had lost his reason! And
+yet this man stands at the head of the Presbyterian
+clergy. It is for this reason that I answer him. He
+is the only Presbyterian minister in the United
+States, so far as I know, able to draw an audience.
+He is, without doubt, the leader of that denomination.
+
+57
+
+He is orthodox and conservative. He believes im-
+plicitly in the "Five Points" of Calvin, and says
+nothing simply for the purpose of attracting attention.
+He believes that God damns a man for his own glory;
+that he sends babes to hell to establish his mercy,
+and that he filled the world with disease and crime
+simply to demonstrate his wisdom. He believes that
+billions of years before the earth was, God had made
+up his mind as to the exact number that he would
+eternally damn, and had counted his saints. This
+doctrine he calls "glad tidings of great joy." He
+really believes that every man who is true to himself
+is waging war against God; that every infidel is a
+rebel; that every Freethinker is a traitor, and that
+only those are good subjects who have joined the
+Presbyterian Church, know the Shorter Catechism by
+heart, and subscribe liberally toward lifting the mort-
+gage on the Brooklyn Tabernacle. All the rest are
+endeavoring to assassinate God, plotting the murder
+of the Holy Ghost, and applauding the Jews for the
+crucifixion of Christ. If Mr. Talmage is correct in
+his views as to the power and wisdom of God, I
+imagine that his enemies at last will be overthrown,
+that the assassins and murderers will not succeed, and
+that the Infinite, with Mr. Talmage s assistance, will
+
+58
+
+finally triumph. If there is an infinite God, certainly
+he ought to have made man grand enough to have
+and express an opinion of his own. Is it possible
+that God can be gratified with the applause of moral
+cowards? Does he seek to enhance his glory by
+receiving the adulation of cringing slaves? Is God
+satisfied with the adoration of the frightened?
+
+_Question_. You notice that Mr. Talmage finds
+nearly all the inventions of modern times mentioned
+in the Bible?
+
+_Answer_: Yes; Mr. Talmage has made an ex-
+ceedingly important discovery. I admit that I am
+somewhat amazed at the wisdom of the ancients.
+This discovery has been made just in the nick of
+time. Millions of people were losing their respect
+for the Old Testament. They were beginning to
+think that there was some discrepancy between the
+prophecies of Ezekiel and Daniel and the latest devel-
+opments in physical science. Thousands of preachers
+were telling their flocks that the Bible is not a
+scientific book; that Joshua was not an inspired as-
+tronomer, that God never enlightened Moses about
+geology, and that Ezekiel did not understand the
+entire art of cookery. These admissions caused
+
+59
+
+some young people to suspect that the Bible, after all,
+was not inspired; that the prophets of antiquity did
+not know as much as the discoverers of to-day. The
+Bible was falling into disrepute. Mr. Talmage has
+rushed to the rescue. He shows, and shows conclu-
+sively as anything can be shown from the Bible, that
+Job understood all the laws of light thousands of
+years before Newton lived; that he anticipated the
+discoveries of Descartes, Huxley and Tyndall; that
+he was familiar with the telegraph and telephone;
+that Morse, Bell and Edison simply put his discov-
+eries in successful operation; that Nahum was, in
+fact, a master-mechanic; that he understood perfectly
+the modern railway and described it so accurately
+that Trevethick, Foster and Stephenson had no diffi-
+culty in constructing a locomotive. He also has
+discovered that Job was well acquainted with the
+trade winds, and understood the mysterious currents,
+tides and pulses of the sea; that Lieutenant Maury
+was a plagiarist; that Humboldt was simply a biblical
+student. He finds that Isaiah and Solomon were
+far in advance of Galileo, Morse, Meyer and Watt.
+This is a discovery wholly unexpected to me. If
+Mr. Talmage is right, I am satisfied the Bible is an
+inspired book. If it shall turn out that Joshua was
+
+60
+
+superior to Laplace, that Moses knew more about
+geology than Humboldt, that Job as a scientist was
+the superior of Kepler, that Isaiah knew more than
+Copernicus, and that even the minor prophets ex-
+celled the inventors and discoverers of our time--
+then I will admit that infidelity must become speech-
+less forever. Until I read this sermon, I had never
+even suspected that the inventions of modern times
+were known to the ancient Jews. I never supposed
+that Nahum knew the least thing about railroads, or
+that Job would have known a telegraph if he had seen
+it. I never supposed that Joshua comprehended the
+three laws of Kepler. Of course I have not read
+the Old Testament with as much care as some other
+people have, and when I did read it, I was not looking
+for inventions and discoveries. I had been told so
+often that the Bible was no authority upon scientific
+questions, that I was lulled into a state of lethargy.
+What is amazing to me is, that so many men did
+read it without getting the slightest hint of the
+smallest invention. To think that the Jews read that
+book for hundreds and hundreds of years, and yet
+went to their graves without the slightest notion of
+astronomy, or geology, of railroads, telegraphs, or
+steamboats! And then to think that the early fathers
+
+61
+
+made it the study of their lives and died without in-
+venting anything! I am astonished that Mr. Talmage
+himself does not figure in the records of the Patent
+Office. I cannot account for this, except upon the
+supposition that he is too honest to infringe on the
+patents of the patriarchs. After this, I shall read
+the Old Testament with more care.
+
+_Question_. Do you see that Mr. Talmage endeav-
+ors to convict you of great ignorance in not knowing
+that the word translated "rib" should have been
+translated "side," and that Eve, after all, was not
+made out of a rib, but out of Adam's side?
+
+_Answer_. I may have been misled by taking the
+Bible as it is translated. The Bible account is simply
+this: "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall
+"upon Adam, and he slept. And he took one of
+"his ribs and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
+"and the rib which the Lord God had taken from
+"man made he a woman, and brought her unto the
+"man. And Adam said: This is now bone of my
+"bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called
+"woman, because she was taken out of man." If
+Mr. Talmage is right, then the account should be as
+follows: "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep
+
+62
+
+"to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one
+"of his sides, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
+"and the side which the Lord God had taken from
+"man made he a woman, and brought her unto the
+"man. And Adam said: This is now side of my
+"side, and flesh of my flesh." I do not see that the
+story is made any better by using the word "side"
+instead of "rib." It would be just as hard for God
+to make a woman out of a man's side as out of a
+rib. Mr. Talmage ought not to question the power
+of God to make a woman out of a bone, and he must
+recollect that the less the material the greater the
+miracle.
+
+There are two accounts of the creation of man,
+in Genesis, the first being in the twenty-first verse
+of the first chapter and the second being in the
+twenty-first and twenty-second verses of the sec-
+ond chapter.
+
+According to the second account, "God formed
+"man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into
+"his nostrils the breath of life." And after this,
+"God planted a garden eastward in Eden and put
+"the man" in this garden. After this, "He made
+"every tree to grow that was good for food and
+"pleasant to the sight," and, in addition, "the tree
+
+63
+
+"of life in the midst of the garden," beside "the tree
+"of the knowledge of good and evil." And he "put
+"the man in the garden to dress it and keep it,"
+telling him that he might eat of everything he saw
+except of "the tree of the knowledge of good and
+"evil."
+
+After this, God having noticed that it "was not
+"good for man to be alone, formed out of the ground
+"every beast of the field, every fowl of the air, and
+"brought them to Adam to see what he would call
+"them, and Adam gave names to all cattle, and to
+"the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field.
+"But for Adam there was not found an helpmeet for
+"him."
+
+We are not told how Adam learned the language,
+or how he understood what God said. I can hardly
+believe that any man can be created with the know-
+ledge of a language. Education cannot be ready
+made and stuffed into a brain. Each person must
+learn a language for himself. Yet in this account we
+find a language ready made for man's use. And not
+only man was enabled to speak, but a serpent also
+has the power of speech, and the woman holds a
+conversation with this animal and with her husband;
+and yet no account is given of how any language was
+
+64
+
+learned. God is described as walking in the garden
+in the cool of the day, speaking like a man--holding
+conversations with the man and woman, and occa-
+sionally addressing the serpent.
+
+In the nursery rhymes of the world there is
+nothing more childish than this "inspired" account
+of the creation of man and woman.
+
+The early fathers of the church held that woman
+was inferior to man, because man was not made for
+woman, but woman for man; because Adam was
+made first and Eve afterward. They had not the
+gallantry of Robert Burns, who accounted for the
+beauty of woman from the fact that God practiced
+on man first, and then gave woman the benefit of
+his experience. Think, in this age of the world,
+of a well-educated, intelligent gentleman telling his
+little child that about six thousand years ago a
+mysterious being called God made the world out of
+his "omnipotence;" then made a man out of some
+dust which he is supposed to have moulded into
+form; that he put this man in a garden for the pur-
+pose of keeping the trees trimmed; that after a little
+while he noticed that the man seemed lonesome, not
+particularly happy, almost homesick; that then it oc-
+curred to this God, that it would be a good thing for
+
+65
+
+the man to have some company, somebody to help
+him trim the trees, to talk to him and cheer him up
+on rainy days; that, thereupon, this God caused
+a deep sleep to fall on the man, took a knife, or a
+long, sharp piece of "omnipotence," and took out one
+of the man's sides, or a rib, and of that made a
+woman; that then this man and woman got along
+real well till a snake got into the garden and induced
+the woman to eat of the tree of the knowledge of
+good and evil; that the woman got the man to take
+a bite; that afterwards both of them were detected by
+God, who was walking around in the cool of the
+evening, and thereupon they were turned out of the
+garden, lest they should put forth their hands and eat
+of the tree of life, and live forever.
+
+This foolish story has been regarded as the sacred,
+inspired truth; as an account substantially written by
+God himself; and thousands and millions of people
+have supposed it necessary to believe this childish
+falsehood, in order to save their souls. Nothing
+more laughable can be found in the fairy tales and
+folk-lore of savages. Yet this is defended by the
+leading Presbyterian divine, and those who fail to
+believe in the truth of this story are called "brazen
+"faced fools," "deicides," and "blasphemers."
+
+66
+
+By this story woman in all Christian countries was
+degraded. She was considered too impure to preach
+the gospel, too impure to distribute the sacramental
+bread, too impure to hand about the sacred wine,
+too impure to step within the "holy of holies," in the
+Catholic Churches, too impure to be touched by a
+priest. Unmarried men were considered purer than
+husbands and fathers. Nuns were regarded as su-
+perior to mothers, a monastery holier than a home, a
+nunnery nearer sacred than the cradle. And through
+all these years it has been thought better to love
+God than to love man, better to love God than to
+love your wife and children, better to worship an
+imaginary deity than to help your fellow-men.
+
+I regard the rights of men and women equal. In
+Love's fair realm, husband and wife are king and
+queen, sceptered and crowned alike, and seated on
+the self-same throne.
+
+_Question_. Do you still insist that the Old Testa-
+ment upholds polygamy? Mr. Talmage denies this
+charge, and shows how terribly God punished those
+who were not satisfied with one wife.
+
+_Answer_. I see nothing in what Mr. Talmage has
+said calculated to change my opinion. It has been
+
+67
+
+admitted by thousands of theologians that the Old
+Testament upholds polygamy. Mr. Talmage is
+among the first to deny it. It will not do to say that
+David was punished for the crime of polygamy
+or concubinage. He was "a man after God's own
+"heart." He was made a king. He was a successful
+general, and his blood is said to have flowed in the
+veins of God. Solomon was, according to the ac-
+count, enriched with wisdom above all human beings.
+Was that a punishment for having had so many
+wives? Was Abraham pursued by the justice of
+God because of the crime against Hagar, or for the
+crime against his own wife? The verse quoted by
+Mr. Talmage to show that God was opposed to
+polygamy, namely, the eighteenth verse of the eight-
+eenth chapter of Leviticus, cannot by any ingenuity
+be tortured into a command against polygamy. The
+most that can be possibly said of it is, that you shall
+not marry the sister of your wife, while your wife is
+living. Yet this passage is quoted by Mr. Talmage
+as "a thunder of prohibition against having more
+"than one wife." In the twentieth chapter of
+Leviticus it is enacted: "That if a man take a wife
+"and her mother they shall be burned with fire." A
+commandment like this shows that he might take his
+
+68
+
+wife and somebody else's mother. These passages
+have nothing to do with polygamy. They show
+whom you may marry, not how many; and there is
+not in Leviticus a solitary word against polygamy--
+not one. Nor is there such a word in Genesis, nor
+Exodus, nor in the entire Pentateuch--not one
+word. These books are filled with the most minute
+directions about killing sheep, and goats and doves;
+about making clothes for priests, about fashioning
+tongs and snuffers; and yet, they contain not one
+word against polygamy. It never occurred to the in-
+spired writers that polygamy was a crime. Polygamy
+was accepted as a matter of course. Women were
+simple property.
+
+Mr. Talmage, however, insists that, although God
+was against polygamy, he permitted it, and at the
+same time threw his moral influence against it.
+Upon this subject he says: "No doubt God per-
+"mitted polygamy to continue for sometime, just
+"as he permits murder and arson, theft and gam-
+"bling to-day to continue, although he is against
+"them." If God is the author of the Ten Com-
+mandments, he prohibited murder and theft, but
+he said nothing about polygamy. If he was so
+terribly against that crime, why did he forget to
+
+69
+
+mention it? Was there not room enough on the
+tables of stone for just one word on this subject?
+Had he no time to give a commandment against
+slavery? Mr. Talmage of course insists that God
+had to deal with these things gradually, his idea being
+that if God had made a commandment against them all
+at once, the Jews would have had nothing more to do
+with him.
+
+For instance: if we wanted to break cannibals
+of eating missionaries, we should not tell them all
+at once that it was wrong, that it was wicked, to
+eat missionaries raw; we should induce them first
+to cook the missionaries, and gradually wean them
+from raw flesh. This would be the first great step.
+We would stew the missionaries, and after a time
+put a little mutton in the stew, not enough to excite
+the suspicion of the cannibal, but just enough to get
+him in the habit of eating mutton without knowing it.
+Day after day we would put in more mutton and less
+missionary, until finally, the cannibal would be perfectly
+satisfied with clear mutton. Then we would tell him
+that it was wrong to eat missionary. After the can-
+nibal got so that he liked mutton, and cared nothing
+for missionary, then it would be safe to have a law
+upon the subject.
+
+70
+
+Mr. Talmage insists that polygamy cannot exist
+among people who believe the Bible. In this he is
+mistaken. The Mormons all believe the Bible. There
+is not a single polygamist in Utah who does not insist
+upon the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments.
+
+The Rev. Mr. Newman, a kind of peripatetic consu-
+lar theologian, once had a discussion, I believe, with
+Elder Orson Pratt, at Salt Lake City, upon the question
+of polygamy. It is sufficient to say of this discussion
+that it is now circulated by the Mormons as a campaign
+document. The elder overwhelmed the parson.
+Passages of Scripture in favor of polygamy were
+quoted by the hundred. The lives of all the patriarchs
+were brought forward, and poor parson Newman was
+driven from the field. The truth is, the Jews at that
+time were much like our forefathers. They were
+barbarians, and many of their laws were unjust
+and cruel. Polygamy was the right of all; practiced,
+as a matter of fact, by the rich and powerful, and the
+rich and powerful were envied by the poor. In such
+esteem did the ancient Jews hold polygamy, that the
+number of Solomons wives was given, simply to en-
+hance his glory. My own opinion is, that Solomon
+had very few wives, and that polygamy was not
+general in Palestine. The country was too poor, and
+
+71
+
+Solomon, in all his glory was hardly able to support
+one wife. He was a poor barbarian king with a
+limited revenue, with a poor soil, with a sparse popu-
+lation, without art, without science and without power.
+He sustained about the same relation to other kings
+that Delaware does to other States. Mr. Talmage
+says that God persecuted Solomon, and yet, if he will
+turn to the twenty-second chapter of First Chronicles,
+he will find what God promised to Solomon. God,
+speaking to David, says: "Behold a son shall be born
+"to thee, who shall be a man of rest, and I will give him
+"rest from his enemies around about; for his name shall
+"be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness
+"unto Israel in his days. He shall build a house in my
+"name, and he shall be my son and I will be his father,
+"and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over
+"Israel forever." Did God keep his promise?
+
+So he tells us that David was persecuted by
+God, on account of his offences, and yet I find in
+the twenty-eighth verse of the twenty-ninth chapter
+of First Chronicles, the following account of the death
+of David: "And he died in a good old age, full of
+"days, riches and honor." Is this true?
+
+_Question_. What have you to say to the charge
+that you were mistaken in the number of years that
+
+72
+
+the Hebrews were in Egypt? Mr. Talmage says that
+they were there 430 years, instead of 215 years.
+
+_Answer_. If you will read the third chapter of
+Galatians, sixteenth and seventeenth verses, you will
+find that it was 430 years from the time God made the
+promise to Abraham to the giving of the law from
+Mount Sinai. The Hebrews did not go to Egypt for
+215 years after the promise was made to Abraham,
+and consequently did not remain in Egypt more than
+215 years. If Galatians is true, I am right.
+
+Strange that Mr. Talmage should belittle the mira-
+cles. The trouble with this defender of the faith is that
+he cares nothing for facts. He makes the strangest
+statements, and cares the least for proof, of any
+man I know. I can account for what he says of me
+only upon the supposition that he has not read my
+lectures. He may have been misled by the pirated
+editions; Persons have stolen my lectures, printed the
+same ones under various names, and filled them with
+mistakes and things I never said. Mr. C. P. Farrell,
+of Washington, is my only authorized publisher.
+Yet Mr. Talmage prefers to answer the mistakes of
+literary thieves, and charge their ignorance to me.
+
+_Question_. Did you ever attack the character of
+Queen Victoria, or did you draw any parallel between
+
+73
+
+her and George Eliot, calculated to depreciate the
+reputation of the Queen?
+
+_Answer_. I never said a word against Victoria.
+The fact is, I am not acquainted with her--never met
+her in my life, and know but little of her. I never
+happened to see her "in plain clothes, reading the
+"Bible to the poor in the lane,"--neither did I ever
+hear her sing. I most cheerfully admit that her
+reputation is good in the neighborhood where she
+resides. In one of my lectures I drew a parallel
+between George Eliot and Victoria. I was showing
+the difference between a woman who had won her
+position in the world of thought, and one who was
+queen by chance. This is what I said:
+
+"It no longer satisfies the ambition of a great man
+"to be a king or emperor. The last Napoleon was
+"not satisfied with being the Emperor of the French.
+"He was not satisfied with having a circlet of gold
+"about his head--he wanted some evidence that he
+"had something of value in his head. So he wrote
+"the life of Julius Cæsar that he might become a
+"member of the French Academy. The emperors,
+"the kings, the popes, no longer tower above their
+"fellows. Compare King William with the philoso-
+"pher Hæckel. The king is one of the 'anointed
+
+74
+
+"'of the Most High'--as they claim--one upon
+"whose head has been poured the divine petroleum
+"of authority. Compare this king with Hæckel, who
+"towers an intellectual Colossus above the crowned
+"mediocrity. Compare George Eliot with Queen
+"Victoria. The queen is clothed in garments given
+"her by blind fortune and unreasoning chance, while
+"George Eliot wears robes of glory, woven in the
+"loom of her own genius. The world is beginning
+"to pay homage to intellect, to genius, to heart."
+I said not one word against Queen Victoria, and did
+not intend to even intimate that she was not an ex-
+cellent woman, wife and mother. I was simply trying
+to show that the world was getting great enough to
+place a genius above an accidental queen. Mr. Tal-
+mage, true to the fawning, cringing spirit of ortho-
+doxy, lauds the living queen and cruelly maligns the
+genius dead. He digs open the grave of George Eliot,
+and tries to stain the sacred dust of one who was the
+greatest woman England has produced. He calls her
+"an adultress." He attacks her because she was an
+atheist--because she abhorred Jehovah, denied the
+inspiration of the Bible, denied the dogma of eternal
+pain, and with all her heart despised the Presbyterian
+creed. He hates her because she was great and brave
+
+75
+
+and free--because she lived without "faith" and died
+without fear--because she dared to give her honest
+thought, and grandly bore the taunts and slanders of
+the Christian world.
+
+George Eliot tenderly carried in her heart the
+burdens of our race. She looked through pity's tears
+upon the faults and frailties of mankind. She knew
+the springs and seeds of thought and deed, and saw,
+with cloudless eyes, through all the winding ways of
+greed, ambition and deceit, where folly vainly plucks
+with thorn-pierced hands the fading flowers of selfish
+joy--the highway of eternal right. Whatever her
+relations may have been--no matter what I think, or
+others say, or how much all regret the one mistake in
+all her self-denying, loving life--I feel and know that
+in the court where her own conscience sat as judge, she
+stood acquitted--pure as light and stainless as a star.
+
+How appropriate here, with some slight change,
+the wondrously poetic and pathetic words of Laertes
+at Ophelia's grave:
+
+     _Leave her i' the earth;
+          And from her fair and unpolluted flesh
+          May violets spring!
+          I tell thee, churlish priest,
+          A ministering angel shall this woman be,
+          When thou liest howling!_
+
+I have no words with which to tell my loathing for
+a man who violates a noble woman's grave.
+
+76
+
+_Question_. Do you think that the spirit in which
+Mr. Talmage reviews your lectures is in accordance
+with the teachings of Christianity?
+
+_Answer_. I think that he talks like a true Presby-
+terian. If you will read the arguments of Calvin
+against the doctrines of Castalio and Servetus, you will
+see that Mr. Talmage follows closely in the footsteps
+of the founder of his church. Castalio was such a
+wicked and abandoned wretch, that he taught the
+innocence of honest error. He insisted that God
+would not eternally damn a man for being honestly
+mistaken. For the utterance of such blasphemous
+sentiments, abhorrent to every Christian mind, Calvin
+called him "a dog of Satan, and a child of hell." In
+short, he used the usual arguments. Castalio was
+banished, and died in exile. In the case of Servetus,
+after all the epithets had been exhausted, an appeal
+was made to the stake, and the blasphemous wretch
+was burned to ashes.
+
+If you will read the life of John Knox, you will find
+that Mr. Talmage is as orthodox in his methods of
+dealing with infidels, as he is in his creed. In my
+opinion, he would gladly treat unbelievers now, as the
+Puritans did the Quakers, as the Episcopalians did the
+Presbyterians, as the Presbyterians did the Baptists,
+
+77
+
+and as the Catholics have treated all heretics. Of
+course, all these sects will settle their differences in
+heaven. In the next world, they will laugh at the
+crimes they committed in this.
+
+The course pursued by Mr. Talmage is consistent.
+The pulpit cannot afford to abandon the weapons of
+falsehood and defamation. Candor sows the seeds of
+doubt. Fairness is weakness. The only way to suc-
+cessfully uphold the religion of universal love, is to
+denounce all Freethinkers as blasphemers, adulterers,
+and criminals. No matter how generous they may
+appear to be, no matter how fairly they may deal with
+their fellow-men, rest assured that they are actuated
+by the lowest and basest motives. Infidels who out-
+wardly live honest and virtuous lives, are inwardly
+vicious, virulent and vile. After all, morality is only
+a veneering. God is not deceived with the varnish of
+good works. We know that the natural man is
+totally depraved, and that until he has been regene-
+rated by the spirit of God, he is utterly incapable of a
+good action. The generosity of the unbeliever is, in
+fact, avarice. His honesty is only a form of larceny.
+His love is only hatred. No matter how sincerely
+he may love his wife,--how devoted he may be to
+his children,--no matter how ready he may be 'to
+
+78
+
+sacrifice even his life for the good of mankind, God,
+looking into his very heart, finds it only a den of
+hissing snakes, a lair of wild, ferocious beasts, a cage
+of unclean birds.
+
+The idea that God will save a man simply because
+he is honest and generous, is almost too preposterous
+for serious refutation. No man should rely upon his
+own goodness. He should plead the virtue of another.
+God, in his infinite justice, damns a good man on his
+own merits, and saves a bad man on the merits of
+another. The repentant murderer will be an angel
+of light, while his honest and unoffending victim will
+be a fiend in hell.
+
+A little while ago, a ship, disabled, was blown about
+the Atlantic for eighty days. Everything had been
+eaten. Nothing remained but bare decks and hunger.
+The crew consisted of Captain Kruger and nine others.
+For nine days, nothing had been eaten. The captain,
+taking a revolver in his hand, said: "Mates, some
+"one must die for the rest. I am willing to sacrifice
+"myself for you." One of his comrades grasped his
+hand, and implored him to wait one more day. The
+next morning, a sail was seen upon the horizon, and
+the dying men were rescued.
+
+To an ordinary man,--to one guided by the light of
+
+79
+
+reason,--it is perfectly clear that Captain Kruger was
+about to do an infinitely generous action. Yet Mr.
+Talmage will tell us that if that captain was not a
+Christian, and if he had sent the bullet crashing
+through his brain in order that his comrades might eat
+his body, and live to reach their wives and homes,--
+his soul, from that ship, would have gone, by dark
+and tortuous ways, down to the prison of eternal pain.
+
+Is it possible that Christ would eternally damn a
+man for doing exactly what Christ would have done,
+had he been infinitely generous, under the same cir-
+cumstances? Is not self-denial in a man as praise-
+worthy as in a God? Should a God be worshiped,
+and a man be damned, for the same action?
+
+According to Mr. Talmage, every soldier who fought
+for our country in the Revolutionary war, who was
+not a Christian, is now in hell. Every soldier, not a
+Christian, who carried the flag of his country to vic-
+tory--either upon the land or sea, in the war of 1812,
+is now in hell. Every soldier, not a Christian, who
+fought for the preservation of this Union,--to break
+the chains of slavery--to free four millions of people
+--to keep the whip from the naked back--every man
+who did this--every one who died at Andersonville
+and Libby, dreaming that his death would help make
+
+80
+
+the lives of others worth living, is now a lost and
+wretched soul. These men are now in the prison of
+God,--a prison in which the cruelties of Libby and
+Andersonville would be regarded as mercies,--in
+which famine would be a joy.
+
+
+
+
+THIRD INTERVIEW.
+
+_Sinner. Is God infinite in wisdom and power?
+
+Parson. He is.
+
+Sinner. Does he at all times know just what ought
+to be done?
+
+Parson. He does.
+
+Sinner. Does he always do just what ought to be
+done?
+
+Parson. He does.
+
+Sinner. Why do you pray to him?
+
+Parson. Because he is unchangeable._
+
+_Question_. I want to ask you a few questions
+about Mr. Talmage's third sermon. What do
+you think of it?
+
+_Answer_. I often ask myself the questions: Is
+there anything in the occupation of a minister,--any-
+thing in his surroundings, that makes him incapable
+of treating an opponent fairly, or decently? Is there
+anything in the doctrine of universal forgiveness that
+compels a man to speak of one who differs with him
+only in terms of disrespect and hatred? Is it neces-
+sary for those who profess to love the whole world,
+to hate the few they come in actual contact with?
+
+84
+
+Mr. Talmage, no doubt, professes to love all man-
+kind,--Jew and Gentile, Christian and Pagan. No
+doubt, he believes in the missionary effort, and thinks
+we should do all in our power to save the soul of the
+most benighted savage; and yet he shows anything
+but affection for the "heathen" at home. He loves
+the ones he never saw,--is real anxious for their wel-
+fare,--but for the ones he knows, he exhibits only
+scorn and hatred. In one breath, he tells us that
+Christ loves us, and in the next, that we are "wolves
+"and dogs." We are informed that Christ forgave
+even his murderers, but that now he hates an honest
+unbeliever with all his heart. He can forgive the
+ones who drove the nails into his hands and feet,--
+the one who thrust the spear through his quivering
+flesh,--but he cannot forgive the man who entertains
+an honest doubt about the "scheme of salvation."
+He regards the man who thinks, as a "mouth-maker
+"at heaven." Is it possible that Christ is less for-
+giving in heaven than he was in Jerusalem? Did he
+excuse murderers then, and does he damn thinkers
+now? Once he pitied even thieves; does he now
+abhor an intellectually honest man?
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage seems to think that you
+have no right to give your opinion about the Bible.
+
+85
+
+Do you think that laymen have the same right as
+ministers to examine the Scriptures?
+
+_Answer_. If God only made a revelation for
+preachers, of course we will have to depend on the
+preachers for information. But the preachers have
+made the mistake of showing the revelation. They
+ask us, the laymen, to read it, and certainly there is
+no use of reading it, unless we are permitted to think
+for ourselves while we read. If after reading the Bible
+we believe it to be true, we will say so, if we are
+honest. If we do not believe it, we will say so, if we
+are honest.
+
+But why should God be so particular about our
+believing the stories in his book? Why should God
+object to having his book examined? We do not
+have to call upon legislators, or courts, to protect
+Shakespeare from the derision of mankind. Was not
+God able to write a book that would command the
+love and admiration of the world? If the God of
+Mr. Talmage is infinite, he knew exactly how the
+stories of the Old Testament would strike a gentle-
+man of the nineteenth century. He knew that many
+would have their doubts,--that thousands of them--
+and I may say most of them,--would refuse to believe
+that a miracle had ever been performed.
+
+86
+
+Now, it seems to me that he should either have left
+the stories out, or furnished evidence enough to con-
+vince the world. According to Mr. Talmage, thou-
+sands of people are pouring over the Niagara of
+unbelief into the gulf of eternal pain. Why does not
+God furnish more evidence? Just in proportion as
+man has developed intellectually, he has demanded
+additional testimony. That which satisfies a barbarian,
+excites only the laughter of a civilized man. Cer-
+tainly God should furnish evidence in harmony with
+the spirit of the age. If God wrote his Bible for the
+average man, he should have written it in such a way
+that it would have carried conviction to the brain and
+heart of the average man; and he should have
+made no man in such a way that he could not, by any
+possibility, believe it. There certainly should be a
+harmony between the Bible and the human brain. If
+I do not believe the Bible, whose fault is it? Mr.
+Talmage insists that his God wrote the Bible for me.
+and made me. If this is true, the book and the man
+should agree. There is no sense in God writing
+a book for me and then making me in such a way that
+I cannot believe his book.
+
+_Question_. But Mr. Talmage says the reason why
+you hate the Bible is, that your soul is poisoned; that
+
+87
+
+the Bible "throws you into a rage precisely as pure
+"water brings on a paroxysm of hydrophobia."
+
+_Answer_. Is it because the mind of the infidel is
+poisoned, that he refuses to believe that an infinite
+God commanded the murder of mothers, maidens and
+babes? Is it because their minds are impure, that
+they refuse to believe that a good God established
+the institution of human slavery, or that he protected
+it when established? Is it because their minds are
+vile, that they refuse to believe that an infinite God
+established or protected polygamy? Is it a sure
+sign of an impure mind, when a man insists that
+God never waged wars of extermination against his
+helpless children? Does it show that a man has
+been entirely given over to the devil, because he
+refuses to believe that God ordered a father to sacri-
+fice his son? Does it show that a heart is entirely
+without mercy, simply because a man denies the
+justice of eternal pain?
+
+I denounce many parts of the Old Testament
+because they are infinitely repugnant to my sense
+of justice,--because they are bloody, brutal and in-
+famous,--because they uphold crime and destroy
+human liberty. It is impossible for me to imagine
+a greater monster than the God of the Old Testa-
+
+88
+
+ment. He is unworthy of my worship. He com-
+mands only my detestation, my execration, and my
+passionate hatred. The God who commanded the
+murder of children is an infamous fiend. The God
+who believed in polygamy, is worthy only of con-
+tempt. The God who established slavery should be
+hated by every free man. The Jehovah of the Jews
+was simply a barbarian, and the Old Testament is
+mostly the barbarous record of a barbarous people.
+
+If the Jehovah of the Jews is the real God, I do
+not wish to be his friend. From him I neither ask,
+nor expect, nor would I be willing to receive, even an
+eternity of joy. According to the Old Testament,
+he established a government,--a political state,--and
+yet, no civilized country to-day would re-enact these
+laws of God.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the explanation
+given by Mr. Talmage of the stopping of the sun and
+moon in the time of Joshua, in order that a battle
+might be completed?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, if there is an infinite God,
+he could have stopped the sun and moon. No one
+pretends to prescribe limits to the power of the
+infinite. Even admitting that such a being existed,
+the question whether he did stop the sun and moon,
+
+89
+
+or not, still remains. According to the account, these
+planets were stopped, in order that Joshua might con-
+tinue the pursuit of a routed enemy. I take it for
+granted that a being of infinite wisdom would not
+waste any force,--that he would not throw away any
+"omnipotence," and that, under ordinary circum-
+stances, he would husband his resources. I find that
+this spirit exists, at least in embryo, in Mr. Talmage.
+He proceeds to explain this miracle. He does not
+assert that the earth was stopped on its axis, but sug-
+gests "refraction" as a way out of the difficulty. Now,
+while the stopping of the earth on its axis accounts for
+the sun remaining in the same relative position, it does
+not account for the stoppage of the moon. The moon
+has a motion of its own, and even if the earth had been
+stopped in its rotary motion, the moon would have gone
+on. The Bible tells us that the moon was stopped. One
+would suppose that the sun would have given sufficient
+light for all practical purposes. Will Mr. Talmage be
+kind enough to explain the stoppage of the moon?
+Every one knows that the moon is somewhat obscure
+when the sun is in the midst of the heavens. The moon
+when compared with the sun at such a time, is much
+like one of the discourses of Mr. Talmage side by side
+with a chapter from Humboldt;--it is useless.
+
+90
+
+In the same chapter in which the account of the
+stoppage of the sun and moon is given, we find that
+God cast down from heaven great hailstones on
+Joshua's enemies. Did he get out of hailstones?
+Had he no "omnipotence" left? Was it necessary
+for him to stop the sun and moon and depend entirely
+upon the efforts of Joshua? Would not the force
+employed in stopping the rotary motion of the earth
+have been sufficient to destroy the enemy? Would
+not a millionth part of the force necessary to stop the
+moon, have pierced the enemy's centre, and rolled up
+both his flanks? A resort to lightning would have
+been, in my judgment, much more economical and
+rather more effective. If he had simply opened the
+earth, and swallowed them, as he did Korah and his
+company, it would have been a vast saving of
+"omnipotent" muscle. Yet, the foremost orthodox
+minister of the Presbyterian Church,--the one who
+calls all unbelievers "wolves and dogs," and "brazen
+"fools," in his effort to account for this miracle, is
+driven to the subterfuge of an "optical illusion."
+We are seriously informed that "God probably
+"changed the nature of the air," and performed this
+feat of ledgerdemain through the instrumentality of
+"refraction." It seems to me it would have been fully
+
+91
+
+as easy to have changed the nature of the air breathed
+by the enemy, so that it would not have supported
+life. He could have accomplished this by changing
+only a little air, in that vicinity; whereas, according
+to the Talmagian view, he changed the atmosphere
+of the world. Or, a small "local flood" might have
+done the work. The optical illusion and refraction
+view, ingenious as it may appear, was not original
+with Mr. Talmage. The Rev. Henry M. Morey, of
+South Bend, Indiana, used, upon this subject, the fol-
+lowing language; "The phenomenon was simply
+"optical. The rotary motion of the earth was not
+"disturbed, but the light of the sun was prolonged by
+"the same laws of refraction and reflection by which
+"the sun now appears to be above the horizon when
+"it is really below. The medium through which the
+"sun's rays passed, might have been miraculously
+"influenced so as to have caused the sun to linger
+"above the horizon long after its usual time for dis-
+"appearance."
+
+I pronounce the opinion of Mr. Morey to be the
+ripest product of Christian scholarship. According to
+the Morey-Talmage view, the sun lingered somewhat
+above the horizon. But this is inconsistent with the
+Bible account. We are not told in the Scriptures that
+
+92
+
+the sun "lingered above the horizon," but that it "stood
+"still in the midst of heaven for about a whole day."
+The trouble about the optical-illusion view is, that it
+makes the day too long. If the air was miraculously
+changed, so that it refracted the rays of the sun, while
+the earth turned over as usual for about a whole day,
+then, at the end of that time, the sun must have been
+again visible in the east. It would then naturally
+shine twelve hours more, so that this miraculous day
+must have been at least thirty-six hours in length.
+There were first twelve hours of natural light, then
+twelve hours of refracted and reflected light, and then
+twelve hours more of natural light. This makes the
+day too long. So, I say to Mr. Talmage, as I said to
+Mr. Morey: If you will depend a little less on
+refraction, and a little more on reflection, you will see
+that the whole story is a barbaric myth and foolish
+fable.
+
+For my part, I do not see why God should be
+pleased to have me believe a story of this character.
+I can hardly think that there is great joy in heaven
+over another falsehood swallowed. I can imagine
+that a man may deny this story, and still be an excel-
+lent citizen, a good father, an obliging neighbor, and
+in all respects a just and truthful man. I can also
+
+93
+
+imagine that a man may believe this story, and yet
+assassinate a President of the United States.
+
+I am afraid that Mr. Talmage is beginning to be
+touched, in spite of himself, with some new ideas. He
+tells us that worlds are born and that worlds die.
+This is not exactly the Bible view. You would think
+that he imagined that a world was naturally pro-
+duced,--that the aggregation of atoms was natural,
+and that disintegration came to worlds, as to men,
+through old age. Yet this is not the Bible view.
+According to the Bible, these worlds were not born,--
+they were created out of "nothing," or out of
+"omnipotence," which is much the same. According
+to the Bible, it took this infinite God six days to make
+this atom called earth; and according to the account,
+he did not work nights,--he worked from the morn-
+ings to the evenings,--and I suppose rested nights,
+as he has since that time on Sundays.
+
+Admitting that the battle which Joshua fought
+was exceedingly important--which I do not think--
+is it not a little strange that this God, in all subse-
+quent battles of the world's history, of which we
+know anything, has maintained the strictest neu-
+trality? The earth turned as usual at Yorktown,
+and at Gettysburg the moon pursued her usual
+
+94
+
+course; and so far as I know, neither at Waterloo
+nor at Sedan were there any peculiar freaks of "re-
+"fraction" or "reflection."
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage tells us that there was in
+the early part of this century a dark day, when
+workmen went home from their fields, and legis-
+latures and courts adjourned, and that the darkness
+of that day has not yet been explained. What is
+your opinion about that?
+
+_Answer_. My opinion is, that if at that time we
+had been at war with England, and a battle had
+been commenced in the morning, and in the after-
+noon the American forces had been driven from their
+position and were hard pressed by the enemy, and
+if the day had become suddenly dark, and so dark
+that the Americans were thereby enabled to escape,
+thousands of theologians of the calibre of Mr. Tal-
+mage would have honestly believed that there had
+been an interposition of divine Providence. No
+battle was fought that day, and consequently, even
+the ministers are looking for natural causes. In
+olden times, when the heavens were visited by
+comets, war, pestilence and famine were predicted.
+If wars came, the prediction was remembered; if
+
+95
+
+nothing happened, it was forgotten. When eclipses
+visited the sun and moon, the barbarian fell upon his
+knees, and accounted for the phenomena by the
+wickedness of his neighbor. Mr. Talmage tells us
+that his father was terrified by the meteoric shower
+that visited our earth in 1833. The terror of the
+father may account for the credulity of the son.
+Astronomers will be surprised to read the declaration
+of Mr. Talmage that the meteoric shower has never
+been explained. Meteors visit the earth every year
+of its life, and in a certain portion of the orbit they
+are always expected, and they always come. Mr.
+Newcomb has written a work on astronomy that
+all ministers ought to read.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage also charges you with
+"making light of holy things," and seems to be aston-
+ished that you should ridicule the anointing oil of
+Aaron?
+
+_Answer_. I find that the God who had no time to
+say anything on the subject of slavery, and who found
+no room upon the tables of stone to say a word
+against polygamy, and in favor of the rights of
+woman, wife and mother, took time to give a recipe
+for making hair oil. And in order that the priests
+
+96
+
+might have the exclusive right to manufacture this oil,
+decreed the penalty of death on all who should
+infringe. I admit that I am incapable of seeing the
+beauty of this symbol. Neither could I ever see the
+necessity of Masons putting oil on the corner-stone
+of a building. Of course, I do not know the exact
+chemical effect that oil has on stone, and I see no harm
+in laughing at such a ceremony. If the oil does good,
+the laughter will do no harm; and if the oil will do no
+harm, the laughter will do no good. Personally, I am
+willing that Masons should put oil on all stones; but,
+if Masons should insist that I must believe in the effi-
+cacy of the ceremony, or be eternally damned, I
+would have about the same feeling toward the
+Masons that I now have toward Mr. Talmage. I
+presume that at one time the putting of oil on a
+corner-stone had some meaning; but that it ever did
+any good, no sensible man will insist. It is a custom
+to break a bottle of champagne over the bow of
+a newly-launched ship, but I have never considered
+this ceremony important to the commercial interests
+of the world.
+
+I have the same opinion about putting oil on
+stones, as about putting water on heads. For my
+part, I see no good in the rite of baptism. Still, it
+
+97
+
+may do no harm, unless people are immersed during
+cold weather. Neither have I the slightest objection
+to the baptism of anybody; but if people tell me that
+I must be baptized or suffer eternal agony, then I deny
+it. If they say that baptism does any earthly good, I
+deny it. No one objects to any harmless ceremony;
+but the moment it is insisted that a ceremony is neces-
+sary, the reason of which no man can see, then the
+practice of the ceremony becomes hurtful, for the
+reason that it is maintained only at the expense of
+intelligence and manhood.
+
+It is hurtful for people to imagine that they can
+please God by any ceremony whatever. If there is
+any God, there is only one way to please him, and
+that is, by a conscientious discharge of your obliga-
+tions to your fellow-men. Millions of people imagine
+that they can please God by wearing certain kinds
+of cloth. Think of a God who can be pleased with
+a coat of a certain cut! Others, to earn a smile of
+heaven, shave their heads, or trim their beards, or
+perforate their ears or lips or noses. Others maim
+and mutilate their bodies. Others think to please
+God by simply shutting their eyes, by swinging
+censers, by lighting candles, by repeating poor Latin,
+by making a sign of the cross with holy water, by
+
+98
+
+ringing bells, by going without meat, by eating fish,
+by getting hungry, by counting beads, by making
+themselves miserable Sundays, by looking solemn,
+by refusing to marry, by hearing sermons; and
+others imagine that they can please God by calumni-
+ating unbelievers.
+
+There is an old story of an Irishman who, when
+dying, sent for a priest. The reputation of the
+dying man was so perfectly miserable, that the priest
+refused to administer the rite of extreme unction.
+The priest therefore asked him if he could recollect
+any decent action that he had ever done. The dying
+man said that he could not. "Very well," said the
+priest, "then you will have to be damned." In a
+moment, the pinched and pale face brightened, and
+he said to the priest: "I have thought of one good
+"action." "What is it?" asked the priest. And the
+dying man said, "Once I killed a gauger."
+
+I suppose that in the next world some ministers,
+driven to extremes, may reply: "Once I told a lie
+"about an infidel."
+
+_Question_. You see that Mr. Talmage still sticks to
+the whale and Jonah story. What do you think of
+his argument, or of his explanation, rather, of that
+miracle?
+
+99
+
+_Answer_. The edge of his orthodoxy seems to be
+crumbling. He tells us that "there is in the mouth
+"of the common whale a cavity large enough for a
+"man to live in without descent into his stomach,"--
+and yet Christ says, that Jonah was in the whale's
+belly, not in his mouth. But why should Mr. Tal-
+mage say that? We are told in the sacred account
+that "God prepared a great fish" for the sole pur-
+pose of having Jonah swallowed. The size of the
+present whale has nothing to do with the story. No
+matter whether the throat of the whale of to-day is
+large or small,--that has nothing to do with it. The
+simple story is, that God prepared a fish and had
+Jonah swallowed. And yet Mr. Talmage throws out
+the suggestion that probably this whale held Jonah
+in his mouth for three days and nights. I admit that
+Jonah's chance for air would have been a little better
+in his mouth, and his chance for water a little worse.
+Probably the whale that swallowed Jonah was the
+same fish spoken of by Procopius,--both accounts
+being entitled, in my judgment, to equal credence.
+I am a little surprised that Mr. Talmage forgot
+to mention the fish spoken of by Munchausen--an
+equally reliable author,--and who has given, not
+simply the bald fact that a fish swallowed a ship, but
+
+100
+
+was good enough to furnish the details. Mr. Talmage
+should remember that out of Jonah's biography
+grew the habit of calling any remarkable lie, "a fish
+"story." There is one thing that Mr. Talmage
+should not forget; and that is, that miracles should
+not be explained. Miracles are told simply to be
+believed, not to be understood.
+
+Somebody suggested to Mr. Talmage that, in
+all probability, a person in the stomach of a whale
+would be digested in less than three days. Mr. Tal-
+mage, again showing his lack of confidence in God,
+refusing to believe that God could change the nature
+of gastric juice,--having no opportunity to rely
+upon "refraction or reflection," frankly admits that
+Jonah had to save himself by keeping on the
+constant go and jump. This gastric-juice theory of
+Mr. Talmage is an abandonment of his mouth hy-
+pothesis. I do not wonder that Mr. Talmage thought
+of the mouth theory. Possibly, the two theories had
+better be united--so that we may say that Jonah,
+when he got tired of the activity necessary to
+avoid the gastric juice, could have strolled into
+the mouth for a rest. What a picture! Jonah
+sitting on the edge of the lower jaw, wiping the
+perspiration and the gastric juice from his anxious
+
+101
+
+face, and vainly looking through the open mouth
+for signs of land!
+
+In this story of Jonah, we are told that "the Lord
+"spake unto the fish." In what language? It must
+be remembered that this fish was only a few hours
+old. He had been prepared during the storm, for
+the sole purpose of swallowing Jonah. He was a
+fish of exceedingly limited experience. He had no
+hereditary knowledge, because he did not spring
+from ancestors; consequently, he had no instincts.
+Would such a fish understand any language? It
+may be contended that the fish, having been made
+for the occasion, was given a sufficient knowledge
+of language to understand an ordinary command-
+ment; but, if Mr. Talmage is right, I think an order
+to the fish would have been entirely unnecessary.
+When we take into consideration that a thing the
+size of a man had been promenading up and down
+the stomach of this fish for three days and three
+nights, successfully baffling the efforts of gastric
+juice, we can readily believe that the fish was as
+anxious to have Jonah go, as Jonah was to leave.
+
+But the whale part is, after all, not the most won-
+derful portion of the book of Jonah. According to
+this wonderful account, "the word of the Lord came
+
+102
+
+"to Jonah," telling him to "go and cry against the
+"city of Nineveh;" but Jonah, instead of going,
+endeavored to evade the Lord by taking ship for
+Tarshish. As soon as the Lord heard of this, he
+"sent out a great wind into the sea," and frightened
+the sailors to that extent that after assuring them-
+selves, by casting lots, that Jonah was the man, they
+threw him into the sea. After escaping from the
+whale, he went to Nineveh, and delivered his pre-
+tended message from God. In consequence of his
+message, Jonah having no credentials from God,--
+nothing certifying to his official character, the King
+of Nineveh covered himself with sack-cloth and sat
+down in some ashes. He then caused a decree to
+be issued that every man and beast should abstain
+from food and water; and further, that every man and
+beast should be covered with sack-cloth. This was
+done in the hope that Jonah's God would repent, and
+turn away his fierce anger. When we take into con-
+sideration the fact that the people of Nineveh were
+not Hebrews, and had not the slightest confidence in
+the God of the Jews--knew no more of, and cared no
+more for, Jehovah than we now care for Jupiter, or
+Neptune; the effect produced by the proclamation of
+Jonah is, to say the least of it, almost incredible.
+
+103
+
+We are also informed, in this book, that the
+moment God saw all the people sitting in the ashes,
+and all the animals covered with sack-cloth, he
+repented. This failure on the part of God to destroy
+the unbelievers displeased Jonah exceedingly, and
+he was very angry. Jonah was much like the
+modern minister, who seems always to be personally
+aggrieved if the pestilence and famine prophesied by
+him do not come. Jonah was displeased to that
+degree, that he asked God to kill him. Jonah then
+went out of the city, even after God had repented,
+made him a booth and sat under it, in the shade,
+waiting to see what would become of the city. God
+then "prepared a gourd, and made it to come up
+"over Jonah that it might be a shadow over his
+"head to deliver him from his grief." And then we
+have this pathetic line: "So Jonah was exceedingly
+"glad of the gourd."
+
+God having prepared a fish, and also prepared
+a gourd, proposed next morning to prepare a worm.
+And when the sun rose next day, the worm that
+God had prepared, "smote the gourd, so that
+"it withered." I can hardly believe that an in-
+finite being prepared a worm to smite a gourd
+so that it withered, in order to keep the sun from
+
+104
+
+the bald head of a prophet. According to the
+account, after sunrise, and after the worm had
+smitten the gourd, "God prepared a vehement east
+"wind." This was not an ordinary wind, but one
+prepared expressly for that occasion. After the wind
+had been prepared, "the sun beat upon the head of
+"Jonah, and he fainted, and wished in himself to
+"die." All this was done in order to convince
+Jonah that a man who would deplore the loss of a
+gourd, ought not to wish for the destruction of a city.
+
+Is it possible for any intelligent man now to
+believe that the history of Jonah is literally true?
+For my part, I cannot see the necessity either of
+believing it, or of preaching it. It has nothing to do
+with honesty, with mercy, or with morality. The
+bad may believe it, and the good may hold it in
+contempt. I do not see that civilization has the
+slightest interest in the fish, the gourd, the worm, or
+the vehement east wind.
+
+Does Mr. Talmage think that it is absolutely neces-
+sary to believe _all_ the story? Does he not think it
+probable that a God of infinite mercy, rather than
+damn the soul of an honest man to hell forever, would
+waive, for instance, the worm,--provided he believed
+in the vehement east wind, the gourd and the fish?
+
+105
+
+Mr. Talmage, by insisting on the literal truth of
+the Bible stories, is doing Christianity great harm.
+Thousands of young men will say: "I can't become
+"a Christian if it is necessary to believe the adven-
+"tures of Jonah." Mr. Talmage will put into the
+paths of multitudes of people willing to do right,
+anxious to make the world a little better than it is,--
+this stumbling block. He could have explained it,
+called it an allegory, poetical license, a child of the
+oriental imagination, a symbol, a parable, a poem, a
+dream, a legend, a myth, a divine figure, or a great
+truth wrapped in the rags and shreds and patches of
+seeming falsehood. His efforts to belittle the miracle,
+to suggest the mouth instead of the stomach,--to
+suggest that Jonah took deck passage, or lodged in
+the forecastle instead of in the cabin or steerage,--
+to suggest motion as a means of avoiding digestion,
+is a serious theological blunder, and may cause the
+loss of many souls.
+
+If Mr. Talmage will consult with other ministers,
+they will tell him to let this story alone--that he will
+simply "provoke investigation and discussion"--two
+things to be avoided. They will tell him that they
+are not willing their salary should hang on so slender
+a thread, and will advise him not to bother his gourd
+
+106
+
+about Jonah's. They will also tell him that in this
+age of the world, arguments cannot be answered by
+"a vehement east wind."
+
+Some people will think that it would have been
+just as easy for God to have pulled the gourd up, as
+to have prepared a worm to bite it.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges that you have
+said there are indecencies in the Bible. Are you
+still of that opinion?
+
+_Answer_. Mr. Talmage endeavors to evade the
+charge, by saying that "there are things in the Bible
+"not intended to be read, either in the family circle,
+"or in the pulpit, but nevertheless they are to be
+"read." My own judgment is, that an infinite being
+should not inspire the writing of indecent things.
+It will not do to say, that the Bible description of sin
+"warns and saves." There is nothing in the history
+of Tamar calculated to "warn and save and the
+same may be said of many other passages in the
+Old Testament. Most Christians would be glad
+to know that all such passages are interpolations.
+I regret that Shakespeare ever wrote a line that
+could not be read any where, and by any person.
+But Shakespeare, great as he was, did not rise en-
+
+107
+
+tirely above his time. So of most poets. Nearly all
+have stained their pages with some vulgarity; and I
+am sorry for it, and hope the time will come when
+we shall have an edition of all the great writers and
+poets from which every such passage is elimi-
+nated.
+
+It is with the Bible as with most other books. It
+is a mingling of good and bad. There are many
+exquisite passages in the Bible,--many good laws,--
+many wise sayings,--and there are many passages
+that should never have been written. I do not pro-
+pose to throw away the good on account of the
+bad, neither do I propose to accept the bad on
+account of the good. The Bible need not be taken
+as an entirety. It is the business of every man who
+reads it, to discriminate between that which is good
+and that which is bad. There are also many passages
+neither good nor bad,--wholly and totally indifferent
+--conveying 110 information--utterly destitute of
+ideas,--and as to these passages, my only objection
+to them is that they waste time and paper.
+
+I am in favor of every passage in the Bible that
+conveys information. I am in favor of every wise
+proverb, of every verse coming from human ex-
+perience and that appeals to the heart of man. I am
+
+108
+
+in favor of every passage that inculcates justice,
+generosity, purity, and mercy. I am satisfied that
+much of the historical part is false. Some of it
+is probably true. Let us have the courage to take
+the true, and throw the false away. I am satisfied
+that many of the passages are barbaric, and many of
+them are good. Let us have the wisdom to accept
+the good and to reject the barbaric.
+
+No system of religion should go in partnership
+with barbarism. Neither should any Christian feel
+it his duty to defend the savagery of the past. The
+philosophy of Christ must stand independently of the
+mistakes of the Old Testament. We should do jus-
+tice whether a woman was made from a rib or from
+"omnipotence." We should be merciful whether
+the flood was general, or local. We should be kind
+and obliging whether Jonah was swallowed by a fish
+or not. The miraculous has nothing to do with the
+moral. Intelligence is of more value than inspiration.
+Brain is better than Bible. Reason is above all
+religion. I do not believe that any civilized human
+being clings to the Bible on account of its barbaric
+passages. I am candid enough to believe that every
+Christian in the world would think more of the Bible,
+if it had not upheld slavery, if it had denounced
+
+109
+
+polygamy, if it had cried out against wars of exter-
+mination, if it had spared women and babes, if it had
+upheld everywhere, and at all times, the standard of
+justice and mercy. But when it is claimed that the
+book is perfect, that it is inspired, that it is, in fact,
+the work of an infinitely wise and good God,--then
+it should be without a defect. There should not be
+within its lids an impure word; it should not express
+an impure thought. There should not be one word
+in favor of injustice, not one word in favor of slavery,
+not one word in favor of wars of extermination.
+There must be another revision of the Scriptures.
+The chaff must be thrown away. The dross must
+be rejected; and only that be retained which is in
+exact harmony with the brain and heart of the
+greatest and the best.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with unfair-
+ness, because you account for the death of art in
+Palestine, by the commandment which forbids the
+making of graven images.
+
+_Answer_. I have said that that commandment was
+the death of art, and I say so still. I insist that by
+reason of that commandment, Palestine produced no
+painter and no sculptor until after the destruction of
+
+110
+
+Jerusalem. Mr. Talmage, in order to answer that
+statement, goes on to show that hundreds and thou-
+sands of pictures were produced in the Middle Ages.
+That is a departure in pleading. Will he give us the
+names of the painters that existed in Palestine from
+Mount Sinai to the destruction of the temple? Will
+he give us the names of the sculptors between those
+times? Mohammed prohibited his followers from
+making any representation of human or animal life,
+and as a result, Mohammedans have never produced
+a painter nor a sculptor, except in the portrayal and
+chiseling of vegetable forms. They were confined
+to trees and vines, and flowers. No Mohammedan
+has portrayed the human face or form. But the
+commandment of Jehovah went farther than that of
+Momammed, and prevented portraying the image of
+anything. The assassination of art was complete.
+
+There is another thing that should not be forgotten.
+
+We are indebted for the encouragement of
+art, not to the Protestant Church; if indebted to any,
+it is to the Catholic. The Catholic adorned the cathedral
+
+with painting and statue--not the Protestant.
+The Protestants opposed music and painting, and
+refused to decorate their temples. But if Mr. Tal-
+mage wishes to know to whom we are indebted for
+
+111
+
+art, let him read the mythology of Greece and Rome.
+The early Christians destroyed paintings and statues.
+They were the enemies of all beauty. They hated
+and detested every expression of art. They looked
+upon the love of statues as a form of idolatry. They
+looked upon every painting as a remnant of Pagan-
+ism. They destroyed all upon which they could lay
+their ignorant hands. Hundred of years afterwards,
+the world was compelled to search for the fragments
+that Christian fury had left. The Greeks filled the
+world with beauty. For every stream and mountain
+and cataract they had a god or goddess. Their
+sculptors impersonated every dream and hope, and
+their mythology feeds, to-day, the imagination of
+mankind. The Venus de Milo is the impersonation
+of beauty, in ruin--the sublimest fragment of the
+ancient world. Our mythology is infinitely unpoetic
+and barren--our deity an old bachelor from eternity,
+who once believed in indiscriminate massacre. Upon
+the throne of our heaven, woman finds no place.
+Our mythology is destitute of the maternal.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage denies your statement
+that the Old Testament humiliates woman. He also
+denies that the New Testament says anything
+against woman. How is it?
+
+112
+
+_Answer_. Of course, I never considered a book up-
+holding polygamy to be the friend of woman. Eve,
+according to that book, is the mother of us all, and
+yet the inspired writer does not tell us how long she
+lived,--does not even mention her death,--makes
+not the slightest reference as to what finally became
+of her. Methuselah lived nine hundred and sixty-
+nine years, and yet, there is not the slightest mention
+made of Mrs. Methuselah. Enoch was translated,
+and his widow is not mentioned. There is not a
+word about Mrs. Seth, or Mrs. Enos, or Mrs. Cainan,
+or Mrs. Mahalaleel, or Mrs. Jared. We do not
+know the name of Mrs. Noah, and I believe not the
+name of a solitary woman is given from the creation
+of Eve--with the exception of two of Lamech's
+wives--until Sarai is mentioned as being the wife
+of Abram.
+
+If you wish really to know the Bible estimation of
+woman, turn to the fourth and fifth verses of the
+twelfth chapter of Leviticus, in which a woman, for
+the crime of having borne a son, is unfit to touch a
+hallowed thing, or to come in the holy sanctuary for
+thirty-three days; but if a woman was the mother
+of a girl, then she became totally unfit to enter the
+sanctuary, or pollute with her touch a hallowed thing,
+
+113
+
+for sixty-six days. The pollution was twice as great
+when she had borne a daughter.
+
+It is a little difficult to see why it is a greater crime
+to give birth to a daughter than to a son. Surely, a
+law like that did not tend to the elevation of woman.
+You will also find in the same chapter that a woman
+had to offer a pigeon, or a turtle-dove, as a sin offer-
+ing, in order to expiate the crime of having become a
+mother. By the Levitical law, a mother was unclean.
+The priest had to make an atonement for her.
+
+If there is, beneath the stars, a figure of complete
+and perfect purity, it is a mother holding in her arms
+her child. The laws respecting women, given by
+commandment of Jehovah to the Jews, were born of
+barbarism, and in this day and age should be re-
+garded only with detestation and contempt. The
+twentieth and twenty-first verses of the nineteenth
+chapter of Leviticus show that the same punishment
+was not meted to men and women guilty of the
+same crime.
+
+The real explanation of what we find in the Old
+Testament degrading to woman, lies in the fact, that
+the overflow of Love's mysterious Nile--the sacred
+source of life--was, by its savage authors, deemed
+unclean.
+
+114
+
+_Question_. But what have you to say about the
+women of the Bible, mentioned by Mr. Talmage,
+and held up as examples for all time of all that is
+sweet and womanly?
+
+_Answer_. I believe that Esther is his principal
+heroine. Let us see who she was.
+
+According to the book of Esther, Ahasuerus who
+was king of Persia, or some such place, ordered
+Vashti his queen to show herself to the people
+and the princes, because she was "exceedingly fair
+"to look upon." For some reason--modesty per-
+haps--she refused to appear. And thereupon the
+king "sent letters into all his provinces and to every
+"people after their language, that every man should
+"bear rule in his own house;" it being feared that
+if it should become public that Vashti had disobeyed,
+all other wives might follow her example. The king
+also, for the purpose of impressing upon all women
+the necessity of obeying their husbands, issued a
+decree that "Vashti should come no more before
+"him," and that he would "give her royal estate
+"unto another." This was done that "all the
+"wives should give to their husbands honor, both to
+"great and small."
+
+After this, "the king appointed officers in all the
+
+115
+
+"provinces of his kingdom that they might gather
+"together all the fair young virgins," and bring
+them to his palace, put them in the custody of
+his chamberlain, and have them thoroughly washed.
+Then the king was to look over the lot and take
+each day the one that pleased him best until he found
+the one to put in the place of Vashti. A fellow by
+the name of Mordecai, living in that part of the
+country, hearing of the opportunity to sell a girl,
+brought Esther, his uncle's daughter,--she being an
+orphan, and very beautiful--to see whether she
+might not be the lucky one.
+
+The remainder of the second chapter of this
+book, I do not care to repeat. It is sufficient to say
+that Esther at last was chosen.
+
+The king at this time did not know that Esther
+was a Jewess. Mordecai her kinsman, however,
+discovered a plot to assassinate the king, and Esther
+told the king, and the two plotting gentlemen were
+hanged on a tree.
+
+After a while, a man by the name of Haman was
+made Secretary of State, and everybody coming in
+his presence bowed except Mordecai. Mordecai was
+probably depending on the influence of Esther.
+Haman finally became so vexed, that he made up
+
+116
+
+his mind to have all the Jews in the kingdom
+destroyed. (The number of Jews at that time
+in Persia must have been immense.) Haman there-
+upon requested the king to have an order issued to
+destroy all the Jews, and in consideration of the
+order, proposed to pay ten thousand talents of silver.
+And thereupon, letters were written to the governors
+of the various provinces, sealed with the king's ring,
+sent by post in all directions, with instructions to kill
+all the Jews, both young and old--little children and
+women,--in one day. (One would think that the
+king copied this order from another part of the Old
+Testament, or had found an original by Jehovah.) The
+people immediately made preparations for the killing.
+Mordecai clothed himself with sack-cloth, and Esther
+called upon one of the king's chamberlains, and she
+finally got the history of the affair, as well as a copy
+of the writing, and thereupon made up her mind to
+go in and ask the king to save her people.
+
+At that time, Bismarck's idea of government being
+in full force, any one entering the king's presence with-
+out an invitation, was liable to be put to death. And
+in case any one did go in to see the king, if the king
+failed to hold out his golden sceptre, his life was not
+spared. Notwithstanding this order, Esther put on
+
+117
+
+her best clothes, and stood in the inner court of the
+king's house, while the king sat on his royal throne.
+When the king saw her standing in the court, he
+held out his sceptre, and Esther drew near, and he
+asked her what she wished; and thereupon she
+asked that the king and Haman might take dinner
+with her that day, and it was done. While they were
+feasting, the king again asked Esther what she
+wanted; and her second request was, that they
+would come and dine with her once more. When
+Haman left the palace that day, he saw Mordecai
+again at the gate, standing as stiffly as usual, and it
+filled Haman with indignation. So Haman, taking
+the advice of his wife, made a gallows fifty cubits
+high, for the special benefit of Mordecai. The next
+day, when Haman went to see the king, the king,
+having the night before refreshed his memory in
+respect to the service done him by Mordecai, asked
+Haman what ought to be done for the man whom
+the king wished to honor. Haman, supposing of
+course that the king referred to him, said that royal
+purple ought to be brought forth, such as the king
+wore, and the horse that the king rode on, and the
+crown-royal should be set on the man's head;--that
+one of the most noble princes should lead the horse,
+
+118
+
+and as he went through the streets, proclaim: "Thus
+"shall it be done to the man whom the king de-
+"lighteth to honor."
+
+Thereupon the king told Haman that Mordecai
+was the man that the king wished to honor. And
+Haman was forced to lead this horse, backed by
+Mordecai, through the streets, shouting: "This shall
+"be done to the man whom the king delighteth to
+"honor." Immediately afterward, he went to the
+banquet that Esther had prepared, and the king
+again asked Esther her petition. She then asked
+for the salvation of her people; stating at the same
+time, that if her people had been sold into slavery,
+she would have held her tongue; but since they
+were about to be killed, she could not keep silent.
+The king asked her who had done this thing; and
+Esther replied that it was the wicked Haman.
+
+Thereupon one of the chamberlains, remembering
+the gallows that had been made for Mordecai, men-
+tioned it, and the king immediately ordered that
+Haman be hanged thereon; which was done. And
+Mordecai immediately became Secretary of State.
+The order against the Jews was then rescinded; and
+Ahasuerus, willing to do anything that Esther de-
+sired, hanged all of Haman's folks. He not only did
+
+119
+
+this, but he immediately issued an order to all the
+Jews allowing them to kill the other folks. And the
+Jews got together throughout one hundred and
+twenty-seven provinces, "and such was their power,
+"that no man could stand against them; and there-
+"upon the Jews smote all their enemies with the
+"stroke of the sword, and with slaughter and de-
+"struction, and did whatever they pleased to those
+"who hated them." And in the palace of the king,
+the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men, besides
+ten sons of Haman; and in the rest of the provinces,
+they slew seventy-five thousand people. And after
+this work of slaughter, the Jews had a day of glad-
+ness and feasting.
+
+One can see from this, what a beautiful Bible
+character Esther was--how filled with all that is
+womanly, gentle, kind and tender!
+
+This story is one of the most unreasonable, as well
+as one of the most heartless and revengeful, in the
+whole Bible. Ahasuerus was a monster, and Esther
+equally infamous; and yet, this woman is held up for
+the admiration of mankind by a Brooklyn pastor.
+There is this peculiarity about the book of Esther:
+the name of God is not mentioned in it, and the
+deity is not referred to, directly or indirectly;--yet
+
+120
+
+it is claimed to be an inspired book. If Jehovah
+wrote it, he certainly cannot be charged with
+egotism.
+
+I most cheerfully admit that the book of Ruth is
+quite a pleasant story, and the affection of Ruth for
+her mother-in-law exceedingly touching, but I am of
+opinion that Ruth did many things that would be re-
+garded as somewhat indiscreet, even in the city of
+Brooklyn.
+
+All I can find about Hannah is, that she made a
+little coat for her boy Samuel, and brought it to him
+from year to year. Where he got his vest and
+pantaloons we are not told. But this fact seems
+hardly enough to make her name immortal.
+
+So also Mr. Talmage refers us to the wonderful
+woman Abigail. The story about Abigail, told in
+plain English, is this: David sent some of his fol-
+lowers to Nabal, Abigail's husband, and demanded
+food. Nabal, who knew nothing about David, and
+cared less, refused. Abigail heard about it, and took
+food to David and his servants. She was very much
+struck, apparently, with David and David with her.
+A few days afterward Nabal died--supposed to have
+been killed by the Lord--but probably poisoned;
+and thereupon David took Abigail to wife. The
+
+121
+
+whole matter should have been investigated by the
+grand jury.
+
+We are also referred to Dorcas, who no doubt was a
+good woman--made clothes for the poor and gave
+alms, as millions have done since then. It seems
+that this woman died. Peter was sent for, and there-
+upon raised her from the dead, and she is never men-
+tioned any more. Is it not a little strange that a
+woman who had been actually raised from the dead,
+should have so completely passed out of the memory
+of her time, that when she died the second time, she
+was entirely unnoticed?
+
+Is it not astonishing that so little is in the New
+Testament concerning the mother of Christ? My
+own opinion is, that she was an excellent woman, and
+the wife of Joseph; and that Joseph was the actual
+father of Christ. I think there can be no reasonable
+doubt that such was the opinion of the authors of the
+original gospels. Upon any other hypothesis, it is
+impossible to account for their having given the
+genealogy of Joseph to prove that Christ was of the
+blood of David. The idea that he was the Son of
+God, or in any way miraculously produced, was an
+afterthought, and is hardly entitled now to serious
+consideration. The gospels were written so long after
+
+122
+
+the death of Christ, that very little was known of him,
+and substantially nothing of his parents. How is it
+that not one word is said about the death of Mary--
+not one word about the death of Joseph? How did
+it happen that Christ did not visit his mother after his
+resurrection? The first time he speaks to his mother
+is when he was twelve years old. His mother having
+told him that she and his father had been seeking
+him, he replied: "How is it that ye sought me: wist
+"ye not that I must be about my Father s business?"
+
+The second time was at the marriage feast in Cana,
+when he said to her: "Woman, what have I to do
+"with thee?" And the third time was at the cross,
+when "Jesus, seeing his mother standing by the
+"disciple whom he loved, said to her: Woman, be-
+"hold thy son;" and to the disciple: "Behold thy
+"mother." And this is all.
+
+The best thing about the Catholic Church is
+the deification of Mary,--and yet this is denounced
+by Protestantism as idolatry. There is something
+in the human heart that prompts man to tell his faults
+more freely to the mother than to the father. The
+cruelty of Jehovah is softened by the mercy of
+Mary.
+
+Is it not strange that none of the disciples of Christ
+
+123
+
+said anything about their parents,--that we know
+absolutely nothing of them? Is there any evidence
+that they showed any particular respect even for the
+mother of Christ?
+
+Mary Magdalen is, in many respects, the tenderest
+and most loving character in the New Testament.
+According to the account, her love for Christ knew
+no abatement,--no change--true even in the hopeless
+shadow of the cross. Neither did it die with his
+death. She waited at the sepulchre; she hasted in
+the early morning to his tomb, and yet the only
+comfort Christ gave to this true and loving soul lies
+in these strangely cold and heartless words: "Touch
+"me not."
+
+There is nothing tending to show that the women
+spoken of in the Bible were superior to the ones we
+know. There are to-day millions of women making
+coats for their sons,--hundreds of thousands of
+women, true not simply to innocent people, falsely
+accused, but to criminals. Many a loving heart is
+as true to the gallows as Mary was to the cross.
+There are hundreds of thousands of women accept-
+ing poverty and want and dishonor, for the love they
+bear unworthy men; hundreds and thousands, hun-
+dreds and thousands, working day and night, with
+
+124
+
+strained eyes and tired hands, for husbands and
+children,--clothed in rags, housed in huts and hovels,
+hoping day after day for the angel of death. There are
+thousands of women in Christian England, working in
+iron, laboring in the fields and toiling in mines. There
+are hundreds and thousands in Europe, everywhere,
+doing the work of men--deformed by toil, and who
+would become simply wild and ferocious beasts,
+except for the love they bear for home and child.
+
+You need not go back four thousand years for
+heroines. The world is filled with them to-day.
+They do not belong to any nation, nor to any religion,
+nor exclusively to any race. Wherever woman is
+found, they are found.
+
+There is no description of any women in the Bible
+that equal thousands and thousands of women known
+to-day. The women mentioned by Mr. Talmage fall
+almost infinitely below, not simply those in real life, but
+the creations of the imagination found in the world of
+fiction. They will not compare with the women born
+of Shakespeare's brain. You will find none like
+Isabella, in whose spotless life, love and reason
+blended into perfect truth; nor Juliet, within whose
+heart passion and purity met, like white and red within
+the bosom of a rose; nor Cordelia, who chose to
+
+125
+
+suffer loss rather than show her wealth of love with
+those who gilded dross with golden words in hope
+of gain; nor Miranda, who told her love as freely
+as a flower gives its bosom to the kisses of the sun;
+nor Imogene, who asked: "What is it to be false?"
+nor Hermione, who bore with perfect faith and hope
+the cross of shame, and who at last forgave with all
+her heart; nor Desdemona, her innocence so perfect
+and her love so pure, that she was incapable of sus-
+pecting that another could suspect, and sought with
+dying words to hide her lover's crime.
+
+If we wish to find what the Bible thinks of
+woman, all that is necessary to do is to read it.
+We will find that everywhere she is spoken of
+simply as property,--as belonging absolutely to the
+man. We will find that whenever a man got tired
+of his wife, all he had to do was to give her a writing
+of divorcement, and that then the mother of his
+children became a houseless and a homeless wanderer.
+We will find that men were allowed to have as
+many wives as they could get, either by courtship,
+purchase, or conquest. The Jewish people in the
+olden time were in many respects like their barbarian
+neighbors.
+
+If we read the New Testament, we will find in the
+
+126
+
+epistle of Paul to Timothy, the following gallant
+passages:
+
+"Let the woman learn in silence, with all
+"subjection."
+
+"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp
+"authority over the man, but to be in silence."
+
+And for these kind, gentle and civilized remarks,
+the apostle Paul gives the following reasons:
+
+"For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
+
+"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman
+"being deceived was in the transgression."
+
+Certainly women ought to feel under great obli-
+gation to the apostle Paul.
+
+In the fifth chapter of the same epistle, Paul,
+advising Timothy as to what kind of people he
+should admit into his society or church, uses the
+following language:
+
+"Let not a widow be taken into the number under
+"threescore years old, having been the wife of one
+"man."
+
+"But the younger widows refuse, for when they
+"have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will
+"marry."
+
+This same Paul did not seem to think polygamy
+wrong, except in a bishop. He tells Timothy that:
+
+127
+
+"A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one
+"wife."
+
+He also lays down the rule that a deacon should be
+the husband of one wife, leaving us to infer that the
+other members might have as many as they could get.
+
+In the second epistle to Timothy, Paul speaks of
+"grandmother Lois," who was referred to in such
+extravagant language by Mr. Talmage, and nothing
+is said touching her character in the least. All her
+virtues live in the imagination, and in the imagina-
+tion alone.
+
+Paul, also, in his epistle to the Ephesians, says:
+
+"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own hus-
+"bands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the
+"head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the
+"church."
+
+"Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ,
+"so let the wives be to their own husbands, in
+"everything."
+
+You will find, too, that in the seventh chapter of
+First Corinthians, Paul laments that all men are not
+bachelors like himself, and in the second verse of
+that chapter he gives the only reason for which he
+was willing that men and women should marry. He
+advised all the unmarried, and all widows, to remain
+
+128
+
+as he was. In the ninth verse of this same chapter
+is a slander too vulgar for repetition,--an estimate
+of woman and of woman's love so low and vile, that
+every woman should hold the inspired author in
+infinite abhorrence.
+
+Paul sums up the whole matter, however, by telling
+those who have wives or husbands, to stay with
+them--as necessary evils only to be tolerated--but
+sincerely regrets that anybody was ever married;
+and finally says that:
+
+"They that have wives should be as though they
+"had none;" because, in his opinion:
+
+"He that is unmarried careth for the things that
+"belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
+"but he that is married careth for the things that are
+"of the world, how he may please his wife."
+
+"There is this difference also," he tells us, "be-
+"tween a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman
+"careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be
+"holy both in body and in spirit; but she that is
+"married careth for the things of the world, how she
+" may please her husband."
+
+Of course, it is contended that these things have
+tended to the elevation of woman.
+
+The idea that it is better to love the Lord than to
+
+129
+
+love your wife, or your husband, is infinitely absurd.
+Nobody ever did love the Lord,--nobody can--until
+he becomes acquainted with him.
+
+Saint Paul also tells us that "Man is the image
+"and glory of God; but woman is the glory of
+"man;" and for the purpose of sustaining this posi-
+tion, says:
+
+"For the man is not of the woman, but the woman
+"of the man; neither was the man created for the
+"woman, but the woman for the man."
+
+Of course, we can all see that man could have
+gotten along well enough without woman, but woman,
+by no possibility, could have gotten along without
+man. And yet, this is called "inspired;" and this
+apostle Paul is supposed to have known more than
+all the people now upon the earth. No wonder Paul
+at last was constrained to say: "We are fools for
+"Christ's sake."
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the present
+condition of woman in what is known as "the civilized
+"world," unless the Bible has bettered her condition?
+
+_Answer_. We must remember that thousands of
+things enter into the problem of civilization. Soil,
+climate, and geographical position, united with count-
+
+130
+
+less other influences, have resulted in the civilization
+of our time. If we want to find what the influence of
+the Bible has been, we must ascertain the condition
+of Europe when the Bible was considered as abso-
+lutely true, and when it wielded its greatest influence.
+
+Christianity as a form of religion had actual posses-
+sion of Europe during the Middle Ages. At that
+time, it exerted its greatest power. Then it had the
+opportunity of breaking the shackles from the limbs
+of woman. Christianity found the Roman matron a
+free woman. Polygamy was never known in Rome;
+and although divorces were allowed by law, the
+Roman state had been founded for more than five
+hundred years before either a husband or a wife
+asked for a divorce. From the foundation of Chris-
+tianity,--I mean from the time it became the force in
+the Roman state,--woman, as such, went down in
+the scale of civilization. The sceptre was taken from
+her hands, and she became once more the slave and
+serf of man. The men also were made slaves, and
+woman has regained her liberty by the same means
+that man has regained his,--by wresting authority
+from the hands of the church. While the church had
+power, the wife and mother was not considered as
+good as the begging nun; the husband and father
+was far below the vermin-covered monk; homes
+were of no value compared with the cathedral; for
+God had to have a house, no matter how many of
+his children were wanderers. During all the years in
+which woman has struggled for equal liberty with
+man, she has been met with the Bible doctrine that
+she is the inferior of the man; that Adam was made
+first, and Eve afterwards; that man was not made for
+woman, but that woman was made for man.
+
+I find that in this day and generation, the meanest
+men have the lowest estimate of woman; that the
+greater the man is, the grander he is, the more he
+thinks of mother, wife and daughter. I also find that
+just in the proportion that he has lost confidence in the
+polygamy of Jehovah and in the advice and philosophy
+of Saint Paul, he believes in the rights and liberties of
+woman. As a matter of fact, men have risen from a
+perusal of the Bible, and murdered their wives. They
+have risen from reading its pages, and inflicted cruel
+and even mortal blows upon their children. Men
+have risen from reading the Bible and torn the flesh
+of others with red-hot pincers. They have laid
+down the sacred volume long enough to pour molten
+lead into the ears of others. They have stopped
+reading the sacred Scriptures for a sufficient time to
+
+132
+
+incarcerate their fellow-men, to load them with chains,
+and then they have gone back to their reading,
+allowing their victims to die in darkness and despair.
+Men have stopped reading the Old Testament long
+enough to drive a stake into the ground and collect a
+few fagots and burn an honest man. Even ministers
+have denied themselves the privilege of reading the
+sacred book long enough to tell falsehoods about
+their fellow-men. There is no crime that Bible
+readers and Bible believers and Bible worshipers and
+Bible defenders have not committed. There is no
+meanness of which some Bible reader, believer, and
+defender, has not been guilty. Bible believers and
+Bible defenders have filled the world with calumnies
+and slanders. Bible believers and Bible defenders
+have not only whipped their wives, but they have
+murdered them; they have murdered their children.
+I do not say that reading the Bible will necessarily
+make men dishonest, but I do say, that reading the
+Bible will not prevent their committing crimes. I do
+not say that believing the Bible will necessarily make
+men commit burglary, but I do say that a belief in the
+Bible has caused men to persecute each other, to
+imprison each other, and to burn each other.
+
+Only a little while ago, a British clergyman mur-
+
+133
+
+dered his wife. Only a little while ago, an American
+Protestant clergyman whipped his boy to death be-
+cause the boy refused to say a prayer.
+
+The Rev. Mr. Crowley not only believed the Bible,
+but was licensed to expound it. He had been
+"called" to the ministry, and upon his head had
+been laid the holy hands; and yet, he deliberately
+starved orphans, and while looking upon their
+sunken eyes and hollow cheeks, sung pious hymns
+and quoted with great unction: "Suffer little chil-
+"dren to come unto me."
+
+As a matter of fact, in the last twenty years,
+more money has been stolen by Christian cashiers,
+Christian presidents, Christian directors, Christian
+trustees and Christian statesmen, than by all other
+convicts in all the penitentiaries in all the Christian
+world.
+
+The assassin of Henry the Fourth was a Bible reader
+and a Bible believer. The instigators of the massacre
+of St. Bartholomew were believers in your sacred
+Scriptures. The men who invested their money in the
+slave-trade believed themselves filled with the Holy
+Ghost, and read with rapture the Psalms of David and
+the Sermon on the Mount. The murderers of Scotch
+Presbyterians were believers in Revelation, and the
+
+134
+Presbyterians, when they murdered others, were also
+believers. Nearly every man who expiates a crime
+upon the gallows is a believer in the Bible. For a
+thousand years, the daggers of assassination and the
+swords of war were blest by priests--by the believers
+in the sacred Scriptures. The assassin of President
+Garfield is a believer in the Bible, a hater of infidelity,
+a believer in personal inspiration, and he expects in a
+few weeks to join the winged and redeemed in
+heaven.
+
+If a man would follow, to-day, the teachings of the
+Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would
+follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be
+insane.
+
+
+
+
+FOURTH INTERVIEW.
+
+
+_Son. There is no devil.
+
+Mother. I know there is.
+
+Son. How do you know?
+
+Mother. Because they make pictures that look just
+like him.
+
+Son. But, mother--
+
+Mother. Don't "mother" me! You are trying to
+disgrace your parents._
+
+_Question_. I want to ask you a few questions about
+Mr. Talmage's fourth sermon against you, entitled:
+"The Meanness of Infidelity," in which he compares
+you to Jehoiakim, who had the temerity to throw
+some of the writings of the weeping Jeremiah into
+the fire?
+
+_Answer_. So far as I am concerned, I really re-
+gret that a second edition of Jeremiah's roll was
+gotten out. It would have been far better for us all,
+if it had been left in ashes. There was nothing but
+curses and prophecies of evil, in the sacred roll that
+
+138
+
+Jehoiakim burned. The Bible tells us that Jehovah
+became exceedingly wroth because of the destruction
+of this roll, and pronounced a curse upon Jehoiakim
+and upon Palestine. I presume it was on account of
+the burning of that roll that the king of Babylon
+destroyed the chosen people of God. It was on
+account of that sacrilege that the Lord said of
+Jehoiakim: "He shall have none to sit upon the
+"throne of David; and his dead body shall be cast
+"out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the
+"frost." Any one can see how much a dead body
+would suffer under such circumstances. Imagine an
+infinitely wise, good and powerful God taking ven-
+geance on the corpse of a barbarian king! What
+joy there must have been in heaven as the angels
+watched the alternate melting and freezing of the
+dead body of Jehoiakim!
+
+Jeremiah was probably the most accomplished
+croaker of all time. Nothing satisfied him. He was
+a prophetic pessimist,--an ancient Bourbon. He
+was only happy when predicting war, pestilence and
+famine. No wonder Jehoiakim despised him, and
+hated all he wrote.
+
+One can easily see the character of Jeremiah from
+the following occurrence: When the Babylonians
+
+139
+
+had succeeded in taking Jerusalem, and in sacking
+the city, Jeremiah was unfortunately taken prisoner;
+but Captain Nebuzaradan came to Jeremiah, and told
+him that he would let him go, because he had pro-
+phesied against his own country. He was regarded
+as a friend by the enemy.
+
+There was, at that time, as now, the old fight
+between the church and the civil power. Whenever
+a king failed to do what the priests wanted, they
+immediately prophesied overthrow, disaster, and de-
+feat. Whenever the kings would hearken to their
+voice, and would see to it that the priests had plenty
+to eat and drink and wear, then they all declared
+that Jehovah would love that king, would let him live
+out all his days, and allow his son to reign in his
+stead. It was simply the old conflict that is still being
+waged, and it will be carried on until universal civil-
+ization does away with priestcraft and superstition.
+
+The priests in the days of Jeremiah were the same
+as now. They sought to rule the State. They pre-
+tended that, at their request, Jehovah would withhold
+or send the rain; that the seasons were within their
+power; that they with bitter words could blight the
+fields and curse the land with want and death. They
+gloried then, as now, in the exhibition of God's wrath.
+
+140
+
+In prosperity, the priests were forgotten. Success
+scorned them; Famine flattered them; Health laughed
+at them; Pestilence prayed to them; Disaster was
+their only friend.
+
+These old prophets prophesied nothing but evil,
+and consequently, when anything bad happened, they
+claimed it as a fulfillment, and pointed with pride to
+the fact that they had, weeks or months, or years
+before, foretold something of that kind. They were
+really the originators of the phrase, "I told you so!"
+
+There was a good old Methodist class-leader that
+lived down near a place called Liverpool, on the
+Illinois river. In the spring of 1861 the old man,
+telling his experience, among other things said, that he
+had lived there by the river for more than thirty
+years, and he did not believe that a year had passed
+that there were not hundreds of people during the
+hunting season shooting ducks on Sunday; that he
+had told his wife thousands of times that no good
+would come of it; that evil would come of it; "And
+"now, said the old man, raising his voice with the
+importance of the announcement, "war is upon us!"
+
+_Question_. Do you wish, as Mr. Talmage says, to de-
+stroy the Bible--to have all the copies burned to ashes?
+What do you wish to have done with the Bible?
+
+141
+
+_Answer_. I want the Bible treated exactly as we
+treat other books--preserve the good and throw
+away the foolish and the hurtful. I am fighting the
+doctrine of inspiration. As long as it is believed that
+the Bible is inspired, that book is the master--no
+mind is free. With that belief, intellectual liberty is
+impossible. With that belief, you can investigate
+only at the risk of losing your soul. The Catholics
+have a pope. Protestants laugh at them, and yet the
+pope is capable of intellectual advancement. In
+addition to this, the pope is mortal, and the church
+cannot be afflicted with the same idiot forever. The
+Protestants have a book for their pope. The book
+cannot advance. Year after year, and century after
+century, the book remains as ignorant as ever. It is
+only made better by those who believe in its inspira-
+tion giving better meanings to the words than their
+ancestors did. In this way it may be said that the
+Bible grows a little better.
+
+Why should we have a book for a master? That
+which otherwise might be a blessing, remains a curse.
+If every copy of the Bible were destroyed, all that is
+good in that book would be reproduced in a single
+day. Leave every copy of the Bible as it is, and
+have every human being believe in its inspiration,
+
+142
+
+and intellectual liberty would cease to exist. The
+whole race, from that moment, would go back to-
+ward the night of intellectual death.
+
+The Bible would do more harm if more people
+really believed it, and acted in accordance with its
+teachings. Now and then a Freeman puts the knife
+to the heart of his child. Now and then an assassin
+relies upon some sacred passage; but, as a rule, few
+men believe the Bible to be absolutely true.
+
+There are about fifteen hundred million people in
+the world. There are not two million who have read
+the Bible through. There are not two hundred
+million who ever saw the Bible. There are not five
+hundred million who ever heard that such a book
+exists.
+
+Christianity is claimed to be a religion for all
+mankind. It was founded more than eighteen cen-
+turies ago; and yet, not one human being in three
+has ever heard of it. As a matter of fact, for more
+than fourteen centuries and-a-half after the crucifixion
+of Christ, this hemisphere was absolutely unknown.
+There was not a Christian in the world who knew
+there was such a continent as ours, and all the
+inhabitants of this, the New World, were deprived
+of the gospel for fourteen centuries and-a-half, and
+
+143
+
+knew nothing of its blessings until they were in-
+formed by Spanish murderers and marauders. Even
+in the United States, Christianity is not keeping pace
+with the increase of population. When we take
+into consideration that it is aided by the momentum
+of eighteen centuries, is it not wonderful that it is not
+to-day holding its own? The reason of this is, that
+we are beginning to understand the Scriptures. We
+are beginningto see, and to see clearly, that they are
+simply of human origin, and that the Bible bears
+the marks of the barbarians who wrote it. The best
+educated among the clergy admit that we know but
+little as to the origin of the gospels; that we do not
+positively know the author of one of them; that it is
+really a matter of doubt as to who wrote the five
+books attributed to Moses. They admit now, that
+Isaiah was written by more than one person; that
+Solomon's Song was not written by that king; that
+Job is, in all probability, not a Jewish book; that
+Ecclesiastes must have been written by a Freethinker,
+and by one who had his doubts about the immortality
+of the soul. The best biblical students of the so-
+called orthodox world now admit that several stories
+were united to make the gospel of Saint Luke; that
+Hebrews is a selection from many fragments, and
+
+144
+
+that no human being, not afflicted with delirium
+tremens, can understand the book of Revelation.
+
+I am not the only one engaged in the work of
+destruction. Every Protestant who expresses a doubt
+as to the genuineness of a passage, is destroying the
+Bible. The gentlemen who have endeavored to treat
+hell as a question of syntax, and to prove that eternal
+punishment depends upon grammar, are helping to
+bring the Scriptures into contempt. Hundreds of
+years ago, the Catholics told the Protestant world that
+it was dangerous to give the Bible to the people.
+The Catholics were right; the Protestants were
+wrong. To read is to think. To think is to investi-
+gate. To investigate is, finally, to deny. That book
+should have been read only by priests. Every copy
+should have been under the lock and key of bishop,
+cardinal and pope. The common people should have
+received the Bible from the lips of the ministers.
+The world should have been kept in ignorance. In
+that way, and in that way only, could the pulpit have
+maintained its power. He who teaches a child
+the alphabet sows the seeds of heresy. I have lived
+to see the schoolhouse in many a village larger than
+the church. Every man who finds a fact, is the
+enemy of theology. Every man who expresses an
+
+145
+
+honest thought is a soldier in the army of intellectual
+liberty.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage thinks that you laugh too
+much,--that you exhibit too much mirth, and that no
+one should smile at sacred things?
+
+_Answer_. The church has always feared ridicule.
+The minister despises laughter. He who builds upon
+ignorance and awe, fears intelligence and mirth. The
+theologians always begin by saying: "Let us be
+"solemn." They know that credulity and awe are
+twins. They also know that while Reason is the
+pilot of the soul, Humor carries the lamp. Whoever
+has the sense of humor fully developed, cannot, by
+any possibility, be an orthodox theologian. He would
+be his own laughing stock. The most absurd stories,
+the most laughable miracles, read in a solemn, stately
+way, sound to the ears of ignorance and awe like
+truth. It has been the object of the church for
+eighteen hundred years to prevent laughter.
+
+A smile is the dawn of a doubt.
+
+Ministers are always talking about death, and
+coffins, and dust, and worms,--the cross in this life,
+and the fires of another. They have been the
+enemies of human happiness. They hate to hear
+
+146
+
+even the laughter of children. There seems to have
+been a bond of sympathy between divinity and
+dyspepsia, between theology and indigestion. There
+is a certain pious hatred of pleasure, and those who
+have been "born again" are expected to despise
+"the transitory joys of this fleeting life." In this,
+they follow the example of their prophets, of whom
+they proudly say: "They never smiled."
+
+Whoever laughs at a holy falsehood, is called a
+"scoffer." Whoever gives vent to his natural feel-
+ings is regarded as a "blasphemer," and whoever
+examines the Bible as he examines other books, and
+relies upon his reason to interpret it, is denounced
+as a "reprobate."
+
+Let us respect the truth, let us laugh at miracles,
+and above all, let us be candid with each other.
+
+'Question. Mr. Talmage charges that you have, in
+your lectures, satirized your early home; that you
+have described with bitterness the Sundays that were
+forced upon you in your youth; and that in various
+ways you have denounced your father as a "tyrant,"
+or a "bigot," or a "fool"?
+
+_Answer_. I have described the manner in which
+Sunday was kept when I was a boy. My father for
+
+147
+
+many years regarded the Sabbath as a sacred day.
+We kept Sunday as most other Christians did. I think
+that my father made a mistake about that day. I
+have no doubt he was honest about it, and really
+believed that it was pleasing to God for him to keep
+the Sabbath as he did.
+
+I think that Sunday should not be a day of gloom,
+of silence and despair, or a day in which to hear that
+the chances are largely in favor of your being eternally
+damned. That day, in my opinion, should be one of
+joy; a day to get acquainted with your wife and
+children; a day to visit the woods, or the sea, or the
+murmuring stream; a day to gather flowers, to visit
+the graves of your dead, to read old poems, old
+letters, old books; a day to rekindle the fires of
+friendship and love.
+
+Mr. Talmage says that my father was a Christian,
+and he then proceeds to malign his memory. It
+seems to me that a living Christian should at least
+tell the truth about one who sleeps the silent sleep
+of death.
+
+I have said nothing, in any of my lectures, about
+my father, or about my mother, or about any of my
+relatives. I have not the egotism to bring them
+forward. They have nothing to do with the subject
+
+148
+
+in hand. That my father was mistaken upon the
+subject of religion, I have no doubt. He was a good,
+a brave and honest man. I loved him living, and
+I love him dead. I never said to him an unkind
+word, and in my heart there never was of him an
+unkind thought. He was grand enough to say to
+me, that I had the same right to my opinion that he
+had to his. He was great enough to tell me to read
+the Bible for myself, to be honest with myself, and if
+after reading it I concluded it was not the word of
+God, that it was my duty to say so.
+
+My mother died when I was but a child; and from
+that day--the darkest of my life--her memory has
+been within my heart a sacred thing, and I have felt,
+through all these years, her kisses on my lips.
+
+I know that my parents--if they are conscious now
+--do not wish me to honor them at the expense of
+my manhood. I know that neither my father nor my
+mother would have me sacrifice upon their graves my
+honest thought. I know that I can only please them by
+being true to myself, by defending what I believe is
+good, by attacking what I believe is bad. Yet this min-
+ister of Christ is cruel enough, and malicious enough,
+to attack the reputation of the dead. What he says
+about my father is utterly and unqualifiedly false.
+
+149
+
+Right here, it may be well enough for me to say,
+that long before my father died, he threw aside, as
+unworthy of a place in the mind of an intelligent
+man, the infamous dogma of eternal fire; that he
+regarded with abhorrence many passages in the Old
+Testament; that he believed man, in another world,
+would have the eternal opportunity of doing right,
+and that the pity of God would last as long as the
+suffering of man. My father and my mother were
+good, in spite of the Old Testament. They were mer-
+ciful, in spite of the one frightful doctrine in the New.
+They did not need the religion of Presbyterianism.
+Presbyterianism never made a human being better.
+If there is anything that will freeze the generous
+current of the soul, it is Calvinism. If there is any
+creed that will destroy charity, that will keep the
+tears of pity from the cheeks of men and women, it
+is Presbyterianism. If there is any doctrine calcu-
+lated to make man bigoted, unsympathetic, and
+cruel, it is the doctrine of predestination. Neither
+my father, nor my mother, believed in the damnation
+of babes, nor in the inspiration of John Calvin.
+
+Mr. Talmage professes to be a Christian. What
+effect has the religion of Jesus Christ had upon him?
+Is he the product--the natural product--of Chris-
+
+150
+
+tianity? Does the real Christian violate the sanctity
+of death? Does the real Christian malign the
+memory of the dead? Does the good Christian
+defame unanswering and unresisting dust?
+
+But why should I expect kindness from a Chris-
+tian? Can a minister be expected to treat with
+fairness a man whom his God intends to damn? If
+a good God is going to burn an infidel forever, in
+the world to come, surely a Christian should have
+the right to persecute him a little here.
+
+What right has a Christian to ask anybody to love
+his father, or mother, or wife, or child? According
+to the gospels, Christ offered a reward to any one
+who would desert his father or his mother. He
+offered a premium to gentlemen for leaving their
+wives, and tried to bribe people to abandon their
+little children. He offered them happiness in this
+world, and a hundred fold in the next, if they would
+turn a deaf ear to the supplications of a father, the
+beseeching cry of a wife, and would leave the out-
+stretched arms of babes. They were not even
+allowed to bury their fathers and their mothers. At
+that time they were expected to prefer Jesus to their
+wives and children. And now an orthodox minister
+says that a man ought not to express his honest
+
+151
+
+thoughts, because they do not happen to be in accord
+with the belief of his father or mother.
+
+Suppose Mr. Talmage should read the Bible care-
+fully and without fear, and should come to the honest
+conclusion that it is not inspired, what course would
+he pursue for the purpose of honoring his parents?
+Would he say, "I cannot tell the truth, I must lie,
+"for the purpose of shedding a halo of glory around
+"the memory of my mother"? Would he say: "Of
+"course, my father and mother would a thousand
+"times rather have their son a hypocritical Christian
+"than an honest, manly unbeliever"? This might
+please Mr. Talmage, and accord perfectly with his
+view, but I prefer to say, that my father wished me to
+be an honest man. If he is in "heaven" now, I am
+sure that he would rather hear me attack the
+"inspired" word of God, honestly and bravely, than
+to hear me, in the solemn accents of hypocrisy, defend
+what I believe to be untrue.
+
+I may be mistaken in the estimate angels put upon
+human beings. It may be that God likes a pretended
+follower better than an honest, outspoken man--one
+who is an infidel simply because he does not under-
+stand this God. But it seems to me, in my unregenerate
+condition, touched and tainted as I am by original sin,
+
+152
+
+that a God of infinite power and wisdom ought to be
+able to make a man brave enough to have an opinion
+of his own. I cannot conceive of God taking any
+particular pride in any hypocrite he has ever made.
+Whatever he may say through his ministers, or
+whatever the angels may repeat, a manly devil
+stands higher in my estimation than an unmanly
+angel. I do not mean by this, that there are any
+unmanly angels, neither do I pretend that there
+are any manly devils. My meaning is this: If I have
+a Creator, I can only honor him by being true to
+myself, and kind and just to my fellow-men. If I wish
+to shed lustre upon my father and mother, I can
+only do so by being absolutely true to myself.
+Never will I lay the wreath of hypocrisy upon the
+tombs of those I love.
+
+Mr. Talmage takes the ground that we must defend
+the religious belief of our parents. He seems to
+forget that all parents do not believe exactly alike,
+and that everybody has at least two parents. Now,
+suppose that the father is an infidel, and the mother
+a Christian, what must the son do? Must he "drive
+"the ploughshare of contempt through the grave of
+"the father," for the purpose of honoring the mother;
+or must he drive the ploughshare through the grave
+
+153
+
+of the mother to honor the father; or must he com-
+promise, and talk one way and believe another? If
+Mr. Talmage's doctrine is correct, only persons who
+have no knowledge of their parents can have liberty
+of opinion. Foundlings would be the only free
+people. I do not suppose that Mr. Talmage would
+go so far as to say that a child would be bound by
+the religion of the person upon whose door-steps he
+was found. If he does not, then over every foundling
+hospital should be these words: "Home of Intel-
+"lectual Liberty."
+
+_Question_. Do you suppose that we will care
+nothing in the next world for those we loved in this?
+Is it worse in a man than in an angel, to care nothing
+for his mother?
+
+_Answer_. According to Mr. Talmage, a man can
+be perfectly happy in heaven, with his mother in hell.
+He will be so entranced with the society of Christ,
+that he will not even inquire what has become of his
+wife. The Holy Ghost will keep him in such a state
+of happy wonder, of ecstatic joy, that the names,
+even, of his children will never invade his memory.
+It may be that I am lacking in filial affection, but
+I would much rather be in hell, with my parents
+
+154
+
+in heaven, than be in heaven with my parents in hell.
+I think a thousand times more of my parents than I
+do of Christ. They knew me, they worked for me,
+they loved me, and I can imagine no heaven, no
+state of perfect bliss for me, in which they have no
+share. If God hates me, because I love them,
+I cannot love him.
+
+I cannot truthfully say that I look forward with any
+great degree of joy, to meeting with Haggai and
+Habakkuk; with Jeremiah, Nehemiah, Obadiah,
+Zechariah or Zephaniah; with Ezekiel, Micah, or
+Malachi; or even with Jonah. From what little
+I have read of their writings, I have not formed a
+very high opinion of the social qualities of these
+gentlemen.
+
+I want to meet the persons I have known; and if
+there is another life, I want to meet the really and
+the truly great--men who have been broad enough to
+be tender, and great enough to be kind.
+
+Because I differ with my parents, because I am
+convinced that my father was wrong in some of
+his religious opinions, Mr. Talmage insists that I dis-
+grace my parents. How did the Christian religion
+commence? Did not the first disciples advocate
+theories that their parents denied? Were they
+
+155
+
+not false,--in his sense of the word,--to their
+fathers and mothers? How could there have been
+any progress in this world, if children had not
+gone beyond their parents? Do you consider that
+the inventor of a steel plow cast a slur upon his
+father who scratched the ground with a wooden
+one? I do not consider that an invention by the
+son is a slander upon the father; I regard each
+invention simply as an improvement; and every
+father should be exceedingly proud of an ingenious
+son. If Mr. Talmage has a son, it will be impossible
+for him to honor his father except by differing with
+him.
+
+It is very strange that Mr. Talmage, a believer in
+Christ, should object to any man for not loving his
+mother and his father, when his Master, according
+to the gospel of Saint Luke, says: "If any man
+"come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
+"and wife, and children, and brethren, and sis-
+"ters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my
+"disciple."
+
+According to this, I have to make my choice be-
+tween my wife, my children, and Jesus Christ. I have
+concluded to stand by my folks--both in this world,
+and in "the world to come."
+
+156
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage asks you whether, in your
+judgment, the Bible was a good, or an evil, to your
+parents?
+
+_Answer_. I think it was an evil. The worst thing
+about my father was his religion. He would have
+been far happier, in my judgment, without it. I
+think I get more real joy out of life than he did.
+He was a man of a very great and tender heart. He
+was continually thinking--for many years of his
+life--of the thousands and thousands going down to
+eternal fire. That doctrine filled his days with
+gloom, and his eyes with tears. I think that my
+father and mother would have been far happier had
+they believed as I do. How any one can get any
+joy out of the Christian religion is past my compre-
+hension. If that religion is true, hundreds of mil-
+lions are now in hell, and thousands of millions yet
+unborn will be. How such a fact can form any part
+of the "glad tidings of great joy," is amazing to me.
+It is impossible for me to love a being who would
+create countless millions for eternal pain. It is
+impossible for me to worship the God of the Bible,
+or the God of Calvin, or the God of the Westminster
+Catechism.
+
+157
+
+_Question_. I see that Mr. Talmage challenges you
+to read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John. Are
+you willing to accept the challenge; or have you
+ever read that chapter?
+
+_Answer_. I do not claim to be very courageous,
+but I have read that chapter, and am very glad that
+Mr. Talmage has called attention to it. According
+to the gospels, Christ did many miracles. He healed
+the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the lame
+walk, and raised the dead. In the fourteenth chapter
+of Saint John, twelfth verse, I find the following:
+
+"Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that believeth
+"on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and
+"greater works than these shall he do, because I go
+"unto my Father."
+
+I am willing to accept that as a true test of a
+believer. If Mr. Talmage really believes in Jesus
+Christ, he ought to be able to do at least as great
+miracles as Christ is said to have done. Will Mr.
+Talmage have the kindness to read the fourteenth
+chapter of John, and then give me some proof, in
+accordance with that chapter, that he is a believer in
+Jesus Christ? Will he have the kindness to perform
+a miracle?--for instance, produce a "local flood,"
+make a worm to smite a gourd, or "prepare a fish"?
+
+158
+
+Can he do anything of that nature? Can he even
+cause a "vehement east wind"? What evidence,
+according to the Bible, can Mr. Talmage give of his
+belief? How does he prove that he is a Christian?
+By hating infidels and maligning Christians? Let
+Mr. Talmage furnish the evidence, according to the
+fourteenth chapter of Saint John, or forever after
+hold his peace.
+
+He has my thanks for calling my attention to the
+fourteenth chapter of Saint John.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges that you are at-
+tempting to destroy the "chief solace of the world,"
+without offering any substitute. How do you answer
+this?
+
+_Answer_. If he calls Christianity the "chief solace
+"of the world," and if by Christianity he means that all
+who do not believe in the inspiration of the Scrip-
+tures, and have no faith in Jesus Christ, are to be
+eternally damned, then I admit that I am doing the
+best I can to take that "solace" from the human
+heart. I do not believe that the Bible, when prop-
+erly understood, is, or ever has been, a comfort to
+any human being. Surely, no good man can be
+comforted by reading a book in which he finds that
+
+159
+
+a large majority of mankind have been sentenced to
+eternal fire. In the doctrine of total depravity there
+is no "solace." In the doctrine of "election" there can
+be no joy until the returns are in, and a majority
+found for you.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage says that you are taking
+away the world's medicines, and in place of anaes-
+thetics, in place of laudanum drops, you read an
+essay to the man in pain, on the absurdities of mor-
+phine and nervines in general.
+
+_Answer_. It is exactly the other way. I say, let
+us depend upon morphine, not upon prayer. Do
+not send for the minister--take a little laudanum.
+Do not read your Bible,--chloroform is better. Do
+not waste your time listening to meaningless ser-
+mons, but take real, genuine soporifics.
+
+I regard the discoverer of ether as a benefactor.
+I look upon every great surgeon as a blessing to
+mankind. I regard one doctor, skilled in his profes-
+sion, of more importance to the world than all the
+orthodox ministers.
+
+Mr. Talmage should remember that for hundreds
+of years, the church fought, with all its power, the
+science of medicine. Priests used to cure diseases
+
+160
+
+by selling little pieces of paper covered with cabalistic
+marks. They filled their treasuries by the sale of
+holy water. They healed the sick by relics--the teeth
+and ribs of saints, the finger-nails of departed wor-
+thies, and the hair of glorified virgins. Infidelity
+said: "Send for the doctor." Theology said: "Stick
+"to the priest." Infidelity,--that is to say, science,--
+said: "Vaccinate him." The priest said: "Pray;--
+"I will sell you a charm." The doctor was regarded
+as a man who was endeavoring to take from God his
+means of punishment. He was supposed to spike
+the artillery of Jehovah, to wet the powder of the
+Almighty, and to steal the flint from the musket of
+heavenly retribution.
+
+Infidelity has never relied upon essays, it has
+never relied upon words, it has never relied upon
+prayers, it has never relied upon angels or gods; it
+has relied upon the honest efforts of men and women.
+It has relied upon investigation, observation, experi-
+ence, and above all, upon human reason.
+
+We, in America, know how much prayers are
+worth. We have lately seen millions of people upon
+their knees. What was the result?
+
+In the olden times, when a plague made its ap-
+pearance, the people fell upon their knees and died.
+
+161
+
+When pestilence came, they rushed to their ca-
+thedrals, they implored their priests--and died. God
+had no pity upon his ignorant children. At last,
+Science came to the rescue. Science,--not in the
+attitude of prayer, with closed eyes, but in the atti-
+tude of investigation, with open eyes,--looked for and
+discovered some of the laws of health. Science
+found that cleanliness was far better than godliness. It
+said: Do not spend your time in praying;--clean your
+houses, clean your streets, clean yourselves. This pest-
+ilence is not a punishment. Health is not simply a favor
+of the gods. Health depends upon conditions, and
+when the conditions are violated, disease is inevitable,
+and no God can save you. Health depends upon
+your surroundings, and when these are favorable,
+the roses are in your cheeks.
+
+We find in the Old Testament that God gave
+to Moses a thousand directions for ascertaining
+the presence of leprosy. Yet it never occurred
+to this God to tell Moses how to cure the disease.
+Within the lids of the Old Testament, we have no
+information upon a subject of such vital importance
+to mankind.
+
+It may, however, be claimed by Mr. Talmage, that
+this statement is a little too broad, and I will therefore
+
+162
+
+give one recipe that I find in the fourteenth chapter
+of Leviticus:
+
+"Then shall the priest command to take for him
+" that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and
+"cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop; and the priest
+"shall command that one of the birds be killed in an
+"earthen vessel over running water. As for the
+"living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood,
+"and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them
+"and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was
+"killed over the running water. And he shall
+"sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the
+"leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean,
+"and shall let the living bird loose into the open
+"field."
+
+Prophets were predicting evil--filling the country
+with their wails and cries, and yet it never occurred
+to them to tell one solitary thing of the slightest
+importance to mankind. Why did not these inspired
+men tell us how to cure some of the diseases that
+have decimated the world? Instead of spending
+forty days and forty nights with Moses, telling him
+how to build a large tent, and how to cut the gar-
+ments of priests, why did God not give him a little
+useful information in respect to the laws of health?
+
+163
+
+Mr. Talmage must remember that the church has
+invented no anodynes, no anaesthetics, no medicines,
+and has affected no cures. The doctors have not
+been inspired. All these useful things men have
+discovered for themselves, aided by no prophet and
+by no divine Savior. Just to the extent that man
+has depended upon the other world, he has failed to
+make the best of this. Just in the proportion that he
+has depended on his own efforts, he has advanced.
+The church has always said:
+
+"Consider the lilies of the field; they toil not,
+"neither do they spin." "Take no thought for the
+"morrow." Whereas, the real common sense of this
+world has said: "No matter whether lilies toil and
+spin, or not, if you would succeed, you must work;
+you must take thought for the morrow, you must
+look beyond the present day, you must provide for
+your wife and your children."
+
+What can I be expected to give as a substitute for
+perdition? It is enough to show that it does not
+exist. What does a man want in place of a disease?
+Health. And what is better calculated to increase
+the happiness of mankind than to know that the
+doctrine of eternal pain is infinitely and absurdly
+false?
+
+164
+
+Take theology from the world, and natural Love
+remains, Science is still here, Music will not be lost,
+the page of History will still be open, the walls of
+the world will still be adorned with Art, and the
+niches rich with Sculpture.
+
+Take theology from the world, and we all shall
+have a common hope,--and the fear of hell will be
+removed from every human heart.
+
+Take theology from the world, and millions of
+men will be compelled to earn an honest living.
+Impudence will not tax credulity. The vampire of
+hypocrisy will not suck the blood of honest toil.
+
+Take theology from the world, and the churches
+can be schools, and the cathedrals universities.
+
+Take theology from the world, and the money
+wasted on superstition will do away with want.
+
+Take theology from the world, and every brain
+will find itself without a chain.
+
+There is a vast difference between what is called
+infidelity and theology.
+
+Infidelity is honest. When it reaches the confines
+of reason, it says: "I know no further."
+
+Infidelity does not palm its guess upon an ignorant
+world as a demonstration.
+
+165
+
+Infidelity proves nothing by slander--establishes
+nothing by abuse.
+
+Infidelity has nothing to hide. It has no "holy
+"of holies," except the abode of truth. It has no
+curtain that the hand of investigation has not the
+right to draw aside. It lives in the cloudless light,
+in the very noon, of human eyes.
+
+Infidelity has no bible to be blasphemed. It does
+not cringe before an angry God.
+
+Infidelity says to every man: Investigate for
+yourself. There is no punishment for unbelief.
+
+Infidelity asks no protection from legislatures. It
+wants no man fined because he contradicts its doc-
+trines.
+
+Infidelity relies simply upon evidence--not evi-
+dence of the dead, but of the living.
+
+Infidelity has no infallible pope. It relies only
+upon infallible fact. It has no priest except the
+interpreter of Nature. The universe is its church.
+Its bible is everything that is true. It implores every
+man to verify every word for himself, and it implores
+him to say, if he does not believe it, that he does
+not.
+
+Infidelity does not fear contradiction. It is not
+afraid of being laughed at. It invites the scrutiny
+
+166
+
+of all doubters, of all unbelievers. It does not rely
+upon awe, but upon reason. It says to the whole
+world: It is dangerous not to think. It is dan-
+gerous not to be honest. It is dangerous not to
+investigate. It is dangerous not to follow where
+your reason leads.
+
+Infidelity requires every man to judge for himself.
+Infidelity preserves the manhood of man.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage also says that you are
+trying to put out the light-houses on the coast of the
+next world; that you are "about to leave everybody
+"in darkness at the narrows of death"?
+
+_Answer_. There can be no necessity for these
+light-houses, unless the God of Mr. Talmage has
+planted rocks and reefs within that unknown sea.
+If there is no hell, there is no need of any light-
+house on the shores of the next world; and only
+those are interested in keeping up these pretended
+light-houses who are paid for trimming invisible
+wicks and supplying the lamps with allegorical oil.
+Mr. Talmage is one of these light-house keepers,
+and he knows that if it is ascertained that the coast
+is not dangerous, the light-house will be abandoned,
+and the keeper will have to find employment else-
+
+167
+
+where. As a matter of fact, every church is a use-
+less light-house. It warns us only against breakers
+that do not exist. Whenever a mariner tells one of
+the keepers that there is no danger, then all the
+keepers combine to destroy the reputation of that
+mariner.
+
+No one has returned from the other world to tell
+us whether they have light-houses on that shore or
+not; or whether the light-houses on this shore--one
+of which Mr. Talmage is tending--have ever sent a
+cheering ray across the sea.
+
+Nature has furnished every human being with
+a light more or less brilliant, more or less powerful.
+That light is Reason; and he who blows that light
+out, is in utter darkness. It has been the business of
+the church for centuries to extinguish the lamp of the
+mind, and to convince the people that their own
+reason is utterly unreliable. The church has asked
+all men to rely only upon the light of the church.
+
+Every priest has been not only a light-house but
+a guide-board. He has threatened eternal damna-
+tion to all who travel on some other road. These
+guide-boards have been toll-gates, and the principal
+reason why the churches have wanted people to go
+their road is, that tolls might be collected. They
+
+168
+
+have regarded unbelievers as the owners of turnpikes
+do people who go 'cross lots. The toll-gate man
+always tells you that other roads are dangerous--
+filled with quagmires and quicksands.
+
+Every church is a kind of insurance society, and
+proposes, for a small premium, to keep you from
+eternal fire. Of course, the man who tells you that
+there is to be no fire, interferes with the business,
+and is denounced as a malicious meddler and blas-
+phemer. The fires of this world sustain the same
+relation to insurance companies that the fires of the
+next do to the churches.
+
+Mr. Talmage also insists that I am breaking up the
+"life-boats." Why should a ship built by infinite
+wisdom, by an infinite shipbuilder, carry life-boats?
+The reason we have life-boats now is, that we are
+not entirely sure of the ship. We know that man
+has not yet found out how to make a ship that can
+certainly brave all the dangers of the deep. For this
+reason we carry life-boats. But infinite wisdom must
+surely build ships that do not need life-boats. Is there
+to be a wreck at last? Is God's ship to go down in
+storm and darkness? Will it be necessary at last to
+forsake his ship and depend upon life-boats?
+
+For my part, I do not wish to be rescued by a life-
+
+169
+
+boat. When the ship, bearing the whole world, goes
+down, I am willing to go down with it--with my
+wife, with my children, and with those I have loved.
+I will not slip ashore in an orthodox canoe with
+somebody else's folks,--I will stay with my own.
+
+What a picture is presented by the church! A few
+in life's last storm are to be saved; and the saved,
+when they reach shore, are to look back with joy
+upon the great ship going down to the eternal depths!
+This is what I call the unutterable meanness of or-
+thodox Christianity.
+
+Mr. Talmage speaks of the "meanness of in-
+"fidelity."
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity permits the
+husband to be saved, and to be ineffably happy, while
+the wife of his bosom is suffering the tortures of hell.
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity tells the
+boy that he can go to heaven and have an eternity
+of bliss, and that this bliss will not even be clouded
+by the fact that the mother who bore him writhes in
+eternal pain.
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity allows
+a soul to be so captivated with the companionship
+of angels as to forget all the old loves and friend-
+ships of this world.
+
+170
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity, its un-
+speakable selfishness, allows a soul in heaven to exult
+in the fact of its own salvation, and at the same time
+to care nothing for the damnation of all the rest.
+
+The orthodox Christian says that if he can only
+save his little soul, if he can barely squeeze into
+heaven, if he can only get past Saint Peter's gate,
+if he can by hook or crook climb up the opposite
+bank of Jordan, if he can get a harp in his hand, it
+matters not to him what becomes of brother or
+sister, father or mother, wife or child. He is willing
+that they should burn if he can sing.
+
+Oh, the unutterable meanness of orthodox Chris-
+tianity, the infinite heartlessness of the orthodox
+angels, who with tearless eyes will forever gaze upon
+the agonies of those who were once blood of their
+blood and flesh of their flesh!
+
+Mr. Talmage describes a picture of the scourging
+of Christ, painted by Rubens, and he tells us that
+he was so appalled by this picture--by the sight of
+the naked back, swollen and bleeding--that he could
+not have lived had he continued to look; yet this
+same man, who could not bear to gaze upon a
+painted pain, expects to be perfectly happy in heaven,
+while countiess billions of actual--not painted--men,
+
+171
+
+women, and children writhe--not in a pictured flame,
+but in the real and quenchless fires of hell.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage also claims that we are
+indebted to Christianity for schools, colleges, univer-
+sities, hospitals and asylums?
+
+_Answer_. This shows that Mr. Talmage has not
+read the history of the world. Long before Chris-
+tianity had a place, there were vast libraries. There
+were thousands of schools before a Christian existed
+on the earth. There were hundreds of hospitals
+before a line of the New Testament was written.
+Hundreds of years before Christ, there were hospitals
+in India,--not only for men, women and children, but
+even for beasts. There were hospitals in Egypt long
+before Moses was born. They knew enough then
+to cure insanity with music. They surrounded the
+insane with flowers, and treated them with kindness.
+
+The great libraries at Alexandria were not Chris-
+tian. The most intellectual nation of the Middle
+Ages was not Christian. While Christians were
+imprisoning people for saying that the earth is round,
+the Moors in Spain were teaching geography with
+globes. They had even calculated the circumference
+of the earth by the tides of the Red Sea.
+
+Where did education come from? For a thousand
+
+172
+
+years Christianity destroyed books and paintings and
+statues. For a thousand years Christianity was filled
+with hatred toward every effort of the human mind.
+We got paper from the Moors. Printing had been
+known thousands of years before, in China. A few
+manuscripts, containing a portion of the literature of
+Greece, a few enriched with the best thoughts of
+the Roman world, had been preserved from the
+general wreck and ruin wrought by Christian hate.
+These became the seeds of intellectual progress.
+For a thousand years Christianity controlled Europe.
+The Mohammedans were far in advance of the
+Christians with hospitals and asylums and institutions
+of learning.
+
+Just in proportion that we have done away with
+what is known as orthodox Christianity, humanity
+has taken its place. Humanity has built all the asy-
+lums, all the hospitals. Humanity, not Christianity,
+has done these things. The people of this country
+are all willing to be taxed that the insane may be
+cared for, that the sick, the helpless, and the desti-
+tute may be provided for, not because they are
+Christians, but because they are humane; and they
+are not humane because they are Christians.
+
+The colleges of this country have been poisoned by
+
+173
+
+theology, and their usefulness almost destroyed. Just
+in proportion that they have gotten from ecclesiastical
+control, they have become a good. That college, to-
+day, which has the most religion has the least true
+learning; and that college which is the nearest free,
+does the most good. Colleges that pit Moses against
+modern geology, that undertake to overthrow the
+Copernican system by appealing to Joshua, have
+done, and are doing, very little good in this world.
+
+Suppose that in the first century Pagans had said
+to Christians: Where are your hospitals, where are
+your asylums, where are your works of charity, where
+are your colleges and universities?
+
+The Christians undoubtedly would have replied:
+We have not been in power. There are but few
+of us. We have been persecuted to that degree
+that it has been about as much as we could do to
+maintain ourselves.
+
+Reasonable Pagans would have regarded such an
+answer as perfectly satisfactory. Yet that question
+could have been asked of Christianity after it had
+held the reins of power for a thousand years, and
+Christians would have been compelled to say: We
+have no universities, we have no colleges, we have
+no real asylums.
+
+174
+
+The Christian now asks of the atheist: Where
+is your asylum, where is your hospital, where is your
+university? And the atheist answers: There have
+been but few atheists. The world is not yet suffi-
+ciently advanced to produce them. For hundreds
+and hundreds of years, the minds of men have been
+darkened by the superstitions of Christianity. Priests
+have thundered against human knowledge, have de-
+nounced human reason, and have done all within
+their power to prevent the real progress of mankind.
+
+You must also remember that Christianity has
+made more lunatics than it ever provided asylums
+for. Christianity has driven more men and women
+crazy than all other religions combined. Hundreds
+and thousands and millions have lost their reason in
+contemplating the monstrous falsehoods of Chris-
+tianity. Thousands of mothers, thinking of their
+sons in hell--thousands of fathers, believing their
+boys and girls in perdition, have lost their reason.
+
+So, let it be distinctly understood, that Christianity
+has made ten lunatics--twenty--one hundred--
+where it has provided an asylum for one.
+
+Mr. Talmage also speaks of the hospitals. When
+we take into consideration the wars that have been
+waged on account of religion, the countless thou-
+
+175
+
+sands who have been maimed and wounded, through
+all the years, by wars produced by theology--then I
+say that Christianity has not built hospitals enough
+to take care of her own wounded--not enough to
+take care of one in a hundred. Where Christianity
+has bound up the wounds of one, it has pierced the
+bodies of a hundred others with sword and spear,
+with bayonet and ball. Where she has provided
+one bed in a hospital, she has laid away a hundred
+bodies in bloody graves.
+
+Of course I do not expect the church to do
+anything but beg. Churches produce nothing. They
+are like the lilies of the field. "They toil not, neither
+"do they spin, yet Solomon in all his glory was not
+"arrayed like most of them."
+
+The churches raise no corn nor wheat. They
+simply collect tithes. They carry the alms' dish.
+They pass the plate. They take toll. Of course
+a mendicant is not expected to produce anything.
+He does not support,--he is supported. The church
+does not help. She receives, she devours, she
+consumes, and she produces only discord. She ex-
+changes mistakes for provisions, faith for food,
+prayers for pence. The church is a beggar. But we
+have this consolation: In this age of the world, this
+
+176
+
+beggar is not on horseback, and even the walking is
+not good.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage says that infidels have
+done no good?
+
+_Answer_. Well, let us see. In the first place,
+what is an "infidel"? He is simply a man in advance
+of his time. He is an intellectual pioneer. He is
+the dawn of a new day. He is a gentleman with an
+idea of his own, for which he gave no receipt to the
+church. He is a man who has not been branded as
+the property of some one else. An "infidel" is one
+who has made a declaration of independence. In
+other words, he is a man who has had a doubt. To
+have a doubt means that you have thought upon
+the subject--that you have investigated the question;
+and he who investigates any religion will doubt.
+
+All the advance that has been made in the religious
+world has been made by "infidels," by "heretics,"
+by "skeptics," by doubters,--that is to say, by
+thoughtful men. The doubt does not come from the
+ignorant members of your congregations. Heresy is
+not born of stupidity,--it is not the child of the brain-
+less. He who is so afraid of hurting the reputation
+of his father and mother that he refuses to advance,
+
+177
+
+is not a "heretic." The "heretic" is not true to
+falsehood. Orthodoxy is. He who stands faithfully
+by a mistake is "orthodox." He who, discovering
+that it is a mistake, has the courage to say so, is an
+"infidel."
+
+An infidel is an intellectual discoverer--one who
+finds new isles, new continents, in the vast realm of
+thought. The dwellers on the orthodox shore de-
+nounce this brave sailor of the seas as a buccaneer.
+
+And yet we are told that the thinkers of new
+thoughts have never been of value to the world.
+Voltaire did more for human liberty than all the
+orthodox ministers living and dead. He broke a
+thousand times more chains than Luther. Luther
+simply substituted his chain for that of the Catholics.
+Voltaire had none. The Encyclopaedists of France
+did more for liberty than all the writers upon theology.
+Bruno did more for mankind than millions of "be-
+"lievers." Spinoza contributed more to the growth
+of the human intellect than all the orthodox theolo-
+gians.
+
+Men have not done good simply because they have
+believed this or that doctrine. They have done good
+in the intellectual world as they have thought and
+secured for others the liberty to think and to ex-
+
+178
+
+press their thoughts. They have done good in the
+physical world by teaching their fellows how to
+triumph over the obstructions of nature. Every
+man who has taught his fellow-man to think, has
+been a benefactor. Every one who has supplied his
+fellow-men with facts, and insisted upon their right
+to think, has been a blessing to his kind.
+
+Mr. Talmage, in order to show what Christians
+have done, points us to Whitefield, Luther, Oberlin,
+Judson, Martyn, Bishop Mcllvaine and Hannah
+More. I would not for one moment compare George
+Whitefield with the inventor of movable type, and
+there is no parallel between Frederick Oberlin and
+the inventor of paper; not the slightest between
+Martin Luther and the discoverer of the New World;
+not the least between Adoniram Judson and the in-
+ventor of the reaper, nor between Henry Martyn
+and the discoverer of photography. Of what use to
+the world was Bishop Mcllvaine, compared with
+the inventor of needles? Of what use were a
+hundred such priests compared with the inventor
+of matches, or even of clothes-pins? Suppose that
+Hannah More had never lived? about the same
+number would read her writings now. It is hardly fair
+to compare her with the inventor of the steamship?
+
+179
+
+The progress of the world--its present improved
+condition--can be accounted for only by the discov-
+eries of genius, only by men who have had the
+courage to express their honest thoughts.
+
+After all, the man who invented the telescope
+found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of
+prayer had ever discovered. I feel absolutely certain
+that the inventor of the steam engine was a greater
+benefactor to mankind than the writer of the Presby-
+terian creed. I may be mistaken, but I think that
+railways have done more to civilize mankind, than any
+system of theology. I believe that the printing press
+has done more for the world than the pulpit. It is
+my opinion that the discoveries of Kepler did a
+thousand times more to enlarge the minds of men
+than the prophecies of Daniel. I feel under far
+greater obligation to Humboldt than to Haggai.
+The inventor of the plow did more good than the
+maker of the first rosary--because, say what you
+will, plowing is better than praying; we can live by
+plowing without praying, but we can not live by
+praying without plowing. So I put my faith in the
+plow.
+
+As Jehovah has ceased to make garments for his
+children,--as he has stopped making coats of skins,
+
+180
+
+I have great respect for the inventors of the spinning-
+jenny and the sewing machine. As no more laws
+are given from Sinai, I have admiration for the real
+statesmen. As miracles have ceased, I rely on
+medicine, and on a reasonable compliance with the
+conditions of health.
+
+I have infinite respect for the inventors, the
+thinkers, the discoverers, and above all, for the un-
+known millions who have, without the hope of fame,
+lived and labored for the ones they loved.
+
+
+
+
+FIFTH INTERVIEW,
+
+_Parson. You had belter join the church; it is
+the safer way.
+
+Sinner. I can't live up to your doctrines, and you
+know it.
+
+Parson. Well, you can come as near it in the
+church as out; and forgiveness
+
+will be easier if you join us.
+
+Sinner. What do you mean by that?
+
+Parson. I will tell you. If you join the church,
+and happen to back-slide now and then, Christ will
+say to his Father: "That man is a "friend of mine,
+and you may charge his account to me."_
+
+_Question_. What have you to say about the
+fifth sermon of the Rev. Mr. Talmage in reply
+to you?
+
+_Answer_. The text from which he preached is:
+"Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
+I am compelled to answer these questions in the
+negative. That is one reason why I am an infidel.
+I do not believe that anybody can gather grapes of
+thorns, or figs of thistles. That is exactly my doctrine.
+But the doctrine of the church is, that you can. The
+
+184
+
+church says, that just at the last, no matter if you
+have spent your whole life in raising thorns and thistles,
+in planting and watering and hoeing and plowing
+thorns and thistles--that just at the last, if you will
+repent, between hoeing the last thistle and taking the
+last breath, you can reach out the white and palsied
+hand of death and gather from every thorn a cluster
+of grapes and from every thistle an abundance of
+figs. The church insists that in this way you can
+gather enough grapes and figs to last you through all
+eternity.
+
+My doctrine is, that he who raises thorns must
+harvest thorns. If you sow thorns, you must reap
+thorns; and there is no way by which an innocent
+being can have the thorns you raise thrust into his
+brow, while you gather his grapes.
+
+But Christianity goes even further than this. It
+insists that a man can plant grapes and gather thorns.
+Mr. Talmage insists that, no matter how good you
+are, no matter how kind, no matter how much you
+love your wife and children, no matter how many
+self-denying acts you do, you will not be allowed to
+eat of the grapes you raise; that God will step be-
+tween you and the natural consequences of your
+goodness, and not allow you to reap what you sow.
+
+185
+
+Mr. Talmage insists, that if you have no faith in the
+Lord Jesus Christ, although you have been good
+here, you will reap eternal pain as your harvest; that
+the effect of honesty and kindness will not be peace
+and joy, but agony and pain. So that the church
+does insist not only that you can gather grapes from
+thorns, but thorns from grapes.
+
+I believe exactly the other way. If a man is a
+good man here, dying will not change him, and he
+will land on the shore of another world--if there is
+one--the same good man that he was when he left
+this; and I do not believe there is any God in this
+universe who can afford to damn a good man. This
+God will say to this man: You loved your wife,
+your children, and your friends, and I love you.
+You treated others with kindness; I will treat you
+in the same way. But Mr. Talmage steps up to
+his God, nudges his elbow, and says: Although he
+was a very good man, he belonged to no church;
+he was a blasphemer; he denied the whale story, and
+after I explained that Jonah was only in the whale's
+mouth, he still denied it; and thereupon Mr. Tal-
+mage expects that his infinite God will fly in a
+passion, and in a perfect rage will say: What! did
+he deny that story? Let him be eternally damned!
+
+186
+
+Not only this, but Mr. Talmage insists that a man
+may have treated his wife like a wild beast; may have
+trampled his child beneath the feet of his rage; may
+have lived a life of dishonesty, of infamy, and yet,
+having repented on his dying bed, having made his
+peace with God through the intercession of his Son,
+he will be welcomed in heaven with shouts of joy.
+I deny it. I do not believe that angels can be so
+quickly made from rascals. I have but little confi-
+dence in repentance without restitution, and a hus-
+band who has driven a wife to insanity and death by
+his cruelty--afterward repenting and finding himself
+in heaven, and missing his wife,--were he worthy to
+be an angel, would wander through all the gulfs of
+hell until he clasped her once again..
+
+Now, the next question is, What must be done with
+those who are sometimes good and sometimes bad?
+That is my condition. If there is another world, I
+expect to have the same opportunity of behaving
+myself that I have here. If, when I get there, I fail
+to act as I should, I expect to reap what I sow. If,
+when I arrive at the New Jerusalem, I go into the
+thorn business, I expect to harvest what I plant. If
+I am wise enough to start a vineyard, I expect to
+have grapes in the early fall. But if I do there as I
+
+187
+
+have done here--plant some grapes and some thorns,
+and harvest them together--I expect to fare very
+much as I have fared here. But I expect year by
+year to grow wiser, to plant fewer thorns every
+spring, and more grapes.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges that you have
+taken the ground that the Bible is a cruel book, and
+has produced cruel people?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, I have taken that ground, and I
+maintain it. The Bible was produced by cruel people,
+and in its turn it has produced people like its authors.
+The extermination of the Canaanites was cruel.
+Most of the laws of Moses were bloodthirsty and
+cruel. Hundreds of offences were punishable by
+death, while now, in civilized countries, there are only
+two crimes for which the punishment is capital. I
+charge that Moses and Joshua and David and Samuel
+and Solomon were cruel. I believe that to read and
+believe the Old Testament naturally makes a man
+careless of human life. That book has produced
+hundreds of religious wars, and it has furnished the
+battle-cries of bigotry for fifteen hundred years.
+
+The Old Testament is filled with cruelty, but its
+cruelty stops with this world, its malice ends with
+
+188
+
+death; whenever its victim has reached the grave,
+revenge is satisfied. Not so with the New Testament.
+It pursues its victim forever. After death, comes
+hell; after the grave, the worm that never dies. So
+that, as a matter of fact, the New Testament is in-
+finitely more cruel than the Old.
+
+Nothing has so tended to harden the human heart
+as the doctrine of eternal punishment, and that
+passage: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be
+"saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned,"
+has shed more blood than all the other so-called
+"sacred books" of all this world.
+
+I insist that the Bible is cruel. The Bible invented
+instruments of torture. The Bible laid the foundations
+of the Inquisition. The Bible furnished the fagots and
+the martyrs. The Bible forged chains not only for the
+hands, but for the brains of men. The Bible was at
+the bottom of the massacre of St. Bartholomew.
+Every man who has been persecuted for religion's
+sake has been persecuted by the Bible. That sacred
+book has been a beast of prey.
+
+The truth is, Christians have been good in spite of
+the Bible. The Bible has lived upon the reputations of
+good men and good women,--men and women who
+were good notwithstanding the brutality they found
+
+
+189
+
+upon the inspired page. Men have said: "My mother
+"believed in the Bible; my mother was good; there-
+"fore, the Bible is good," when probably the mother
+never read a chapter in it.
+
+The Bible produced the Church of Rome, and
+Torquemada was a product of the Bible. Philip of
+Spain and the Duke of Alva were produced by the
+Bible. For thirty years Europe was one vast battle-
+field, and the war was produced by the Bible. The re-
+vocation of the Edict of Nantes was produced by the
+sacred Scriptures. The instruments of torture--the
+pincers, the thumb-screws, the racks, were produced
+by the word of God. The Quakers of New England
+were whipped and burned by the Bible--their children
+were stolen by the Bible. The slave-ship had for its
+sails the leaves of the Bible. Slavery was upheld in
+the United States by the Bible. The Bible was the
+auction-block. More than this, worse than this,
+infinitely beyond the computation of imagination, the
+despotisms of the old world all rested and still rest
+upon the Bible. "The powers that be" were sup-
+posed to have been "ordained of God;" and he who
+rose against his king periled his soul.
+
+In this connection, and in order to show the state
+of society when the church had entire control of civil
+
+190
+
+and ecclesiastical affairs, it may be well enough to
+read the following, taken from the _New York Sun_ of
+March 21, 1882. From this little extract, it will be
+easy in the imagination to re-organize the government
+that then existed, and to see clearly the state of so-
+ciety at that time. This can be done upon the same
+principle that one scale tells of the entire fish, or one
+bone of the complete animal:
+
+"From records in the State archives of Hesse-
+"Darmstadt, dating back to the thirteenth century,
+"it appears that the public executioner's fee for boiling
+"a criminal in oil was twenty-four florins; for decapi-
+"tating with the sword, fifteen florins and-a-half; for
+"quartering, the same; for breaking on the wheel,
+"five florins, thirty kreuzers; for tearing a man to
+"pieces, eighteen florins. Ten florins per head was
+"his charge for hanging, and he burned delinquents
+"alive at the rate of fourteen florins apiece. For ap-
+"plying the 'Spanish boot' his fee was only two
+"florins. Five florins were paid to him every time he
+"subjected a refractory witness to the torture of the
+"rack. The same amount was his due for 'branding
+"'the sign of the gallows with a red-hot iron upon
+"'the back, forehead, or cheek of a thief,' as well as
+"for 'cutting off the nose and ears of a slanderer or
+
+191
+
+"'blasphemer.' Flogging with rods was a cheap
+"punishment, its remuneration being fixed at three
+"florins, thirty kreuzers."
+
+The Bible has made men cruel. It is a cruel book.
+And yet, amidst its thorns, amidst its thistles, amidst
+its nettles and its swords and pikes, there are some
+flowers, and these I wish, in common with all good
+men, to save.
+
+I do not believe that men have ever been made
+merciful in war by reading the Old Testament. I do
+not believe that men have ever been prompted to
+break the chain of a slave by reading the Pentateuch.
+The question is not whether Florence Nightingale and
+Miss Dix were cruel. I have said nothing about
+John Howard, nothing about Abbott Lawrence.
+I say nothing about people in this connection. The
+question is: Is the Bible a cruel book? not: Was
+Miss Nightingale a cruel woman? There have been
+thousands and thousands of loving, tender and char-
+itable Mohammedans. Mohammedan mothers love
+their children as well as Christian mothers can.
+Mohammedans have died in defence of the Koran--
+died for the honor of an impostor. There were
+millions of charitable people in India--millions in
+Egypt--and I am not sure that the world has ever
+
+192
+
+produced people who loved one another better than
+the Egyptians.
+
+I think there are many things in the Old Testament
+calculated to make man cruel. Mr. Talmage asks:
+"What has been the effect upon your children? As
+"they have become more and more fond of the
+"Scriptures have they become more and more fond
+"of tearing off the wings of flies and pinning grass-
+"hoppers and robbing birds' nests?"
+
+I do not believe that reading the bible would make
+them tender toward flies or grasshoppers. According
+to that book, God used to punish animals for the
+crimes of their owners. He drowned the animals in
+a flood. He visited cattle with disease. He bruised
+them to death with hailstones--killed them by the
+thousand. Will the reading of these things make
+children kind to animals? So, the whole system of
+sacrifices in the Old Testament is calculated to harden
+the heart. The butchery of oxen and lambs, the killing
+of doves, the perpetual destruction of life, the con-
+tinual shedding of blood--these things, if they have
+any tendency, tend only to harden the heart of child-
+hood.
+
+The Bible does not stop simply with the killing of
+animals. The Jews were commanded to kill their
+
+193
+
+neighbors--not only the men, but the women; not
+only the women, but the babes. In accordance with
+the command of God, the Jews killed not only their
+neighbors, but their own brothers; and according to
+this book, which is the foundation, as Mr. Talmage
+believes, of all mercy, men were commanded to kill
+their wives because they differed with them on the
+subject of religion.
+
+Nowhere in the world can be found laws more un-
+just and cruel than in the Old Testament.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage wants you to tell where
+the cruelty of the Bible crops out in the lives of Chris-
+tians?
+
+_Answer_. In the first place, millions of Christians
+have been persecutors. Did they get the idea of
+persecution from the Bible? Will not every honest
+man admit that the early Christians, by reading the
+Old Testament, became convinced that it was not
+only their privilege, but their duty, to destroy heathen
+nations? Did they not, by reading the same book,
+come to the conclusion that it was their solemn duty
+to extirpate heresy and heretics? According to the
+New Testament, nobody could be saved unless he
+believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. The early Chris-
+
+194
+
+tians believed this dogma. They also believed that
+they had a right to defend themselves and their
+children from "heretics."
+
+We all admit that a man has a right to defend his
+children against the assaults of a would-be murderer,
+and he has the right to carry this defence to the
+extent of killing the assailant. If we have the right
+to kill people who are simply trying to kill the bodies
+of our children, of course we have the right to kill
+them when they are endeavoring to assassinate, not
+simply their bodies, but their souls. It was in this
+way Christians reasoned. If the Testament is right,
+their reasoning was correct. Whoever believes the
+New Testament literally--whoever is satisfied that it
+is absolutely the word of God, will become a perse-
+cutor. All religious persecution has been, and is, in
+exact harmony with the teachings of the Old and
+New Testaments. Of course I mean with some of
+the teachings. I admit that there are passages in
+both the Old and New Testaments against persecu-
+tion. These are passages quoted only in time of
+peace. Others are repeated to feed the flames of
+war.
+
+I find, too, that reading the Bible and believing the
+Bible do not prevent even ministers from telling false-
+
+195
+
+hoods about their opponents. I find that the Rev.
+Mr. Talmage is willing even to slander the dead,--
+that he is willing to stain the memory of a Christian,
+and that he does not hesitate to give circulation
+to what he knows to be untrue. Mr. Talmage
+has himself, I believe, been the subject of a church
+trial. How many of the Christian witnesses against
+him, in his judgment, told the truth? Yet they were
+all Bible readers and Bible believers. What effect, in
+his judgment, did the reading of the Bible have upon
+his enemies? Is he willing to admit that the testi-
+mony of a Bible, reader and believer is true? Is he
+willing to accept the testimony even of ministers?
+--of his brother ministers? Did reading the Bible
+make them bad people? Was it a belief in the Bible
+that colored their testimony? Or, was it a belief in
+the Bible that made Mr. Talmage deny the truth of
+their statements?
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with having
+said that the Scriptures are a collection of polluted
+writings?
+
+_Answer_. I have never said such a thing. I have
+said, and I still say, that there are passages in the
+Bible unfit to be read--passages that never should
+
+196
+
+have been written--passages, whether inspired or
+uninspired, that can by no possibility do any human
+being any good. I have always admitted that there
+are good passages in the Bible--many good, wise
+and just laws--many things calculated to make men
+better--many things calculated to make men worse.
+I admit that the Bible is a mixture of good and bad,
+of truth and falsehood, of history and fiction, of sense
+and nonsense, of virtue and vice, of aspiration and
+revenge, of liberty and tyranny.
+
+I have never said anything against Solomon's
+Song. I like it better than I do any book that pre-
+cedes it, because it touches upon the human. In the
+desert of murder, wars of extermination, polygamy,
+concubinage and slavery, it is an oasis where the
+trees grow, where the birds sing, and where human
+love blossoms and fills the air with perfume. I do
+not regard that book as obscene. There are many
+things in it that are beautiful and tender, and it is
+calculated to do good rather than harm.
+
+Neither have I any objection to the book of Eccle-
+siastes--except a few interpolations in it. That book
+was written by a Freethinker, by a philosopher.
+There is not the slightest mention of God in it, nor
+of another state of existence. All portions in which
+
+197
+
+God is mentioned are interpolations. With some of
+this book I agree heartily. I believe in the doctrine
+of enjoying yourself, if you can, to-day. I think it
+foolish to spend all your years in heaping up treas-
+ures, not knowing but he who will spend them is to
+be an idiot. I believe it is far better to be happy with
+your wife and child now, than to be miserable here,
+with angelic expectations in some other world.
+
+Mr. Talmage is mistaken when he supposes that all
+Bible believers have good homes, that all Bible readers
+are kind in their families. As a matter of fact, nearly all
+the wife-whippers of the United States are orthodox.
+Nine-tenths of the people in the penitentiaries are
+believers. Scotland is one of the most orthodox
+countries in the world, and one of the most intem-
+perate. Hundreds and hundreds of women are
+arrested every year in Glasgow for drunkenness.
+Visit the Christian homes in the manufacturing dis-
+tricts of England. Talk with the beaters of children
+and whippers of wives, and you will find them be-
+lievers. Go into what is known as the "Black
+"Country," and you will have an idea of the Chris-
+tian civilization of England.
+
+Let me tell you something about the "Black
+"Country." There women work in iron; there women
+
+198
+
+do the work of men. Let me give you an instance:
+A commission was appointed by Parliament to ex-
+amine into the condition of the women in the "Black
+"Country," and a report was made. In that report
+I read the following:
+
+"A superintendent of a brickyard where women
+"were engaged in carrying bricks from the yard to
+"the kiln, said to one of the women:
+
+"'Eliza, you don't appear to be very uppish this
+"morning.'"
+
+"'Neither would you be very uppish, sir,' she re-
+"plied, 'if you had had a child last night.'"
+
+This gives you an idea of the Christian civilization
+of England.
+
+England and Ireland produce most of the prize-
+fighters. The scientific burglar is a product of Great
+Britain. There is not the great difference that Mr.
+Talmage supposes, between the morality of Pekin
+and of New York. I doubt if there is a city in
+the world with more crime according to the population
+than New York, unless it be London, or it may be
+Dublin, or Brooklyn, or possibly Glasgow, where
+a man too pious to read a newspaper published on
+Sunday, stole millions from the poor.
+
+I do not believe there is a country in the world
+
+199
+
+where there is more robbery than in Christian lands--
+no country where more cashiers are defaulters, where
+more presidents of banks take the money of depositors,
+where there is more adulteration of food, where
+fewer ounces make a pound, where fewer inches make
+a yard, where there is more breach of trust, more
+respectable larceny under the name of embezzlement,
+or more slander circulated as gospel.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage insists that there are no
+contradictions in the Bible--that it is a perfect har-
+mony from Genesis to Revelation--a harmony as
+perfect as any piece of music ever written by
+Beethoven or Handel?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, if God wrote it, the Bible
+ought to be perfect. I do not see why a minister
+should be so perfectly astonished to find that an
+inspired book is consistent with itself throughout.
+Yet the truth is, the Bible is infinitely inconsistent.
+
+Compare the two systems--the system of Jehovah
+and that of Jesus. In the Old Testament the doctrine
+of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was
+taught. In the New Testament, "forgive your
+"enemies," and "pray for those who despitefully
+"use you and persecute you." In the Old Testament
+
+200
+
+it is kill, burn, massacre, destroy; in the New forgive.
+The two systems are inconsistent, and one is just
+about as far wrong as the other. To live for and
+thirst for revenge, to gloat over the agony of an
+enemy, is one extreme; to "resist not evil" is the
+other extreme; and both these extremes are equally
+distant from the golden mean of justice.
+
+The four gospels do not even agree as to the terms
+of salvation. And yet, Mr. Talmage tells us that
+there are four cardinal doctrines taught in the Bible--
+the goodness of God, the fall of man, the sympathetic
+and forgiving nature of the Savior, and two desti-
+nies--one for believers and the other for unbelievers.
+That is to say:
+
+1. That God is good, holy and forgiving.
+
+2. That man is a lost sinner.
+
+3. That Christ is "all sympathetic," and ready to
+take the whole world to his heart.
+
+4. Heaven for believers and hell for unbelievers.
+
+_First_. I admit that the Bible says that God is
+
+good and holy. But this Bible also tells what God
+did, and if God did what the Bible says he did, then I
+insist that God is not good, and that he is not holy,
+or forgiving. According to the Bible, this good
+God believed in religious persecution; this good
+
+201
+
+God believed in extermination, in polygamy, in con-
+cubinage, in human slavery; this good God com-
+manded murder and massacre, and this good God
+could only be mollified by the shedding of blood.
+This good God wanted a butcher for a priest. This
+good God wanted husbands to kill their wives--
+wanted fathers and mothers to kill their children.
+This good God persecuted animals on account of the
+crimes of their owners. This good God killed the
+common people because the king had displeased him.
+This good God killed the babe even of the maid
+behind the mill, in order that he might get even with
+a king. This good God committed every possible
+crime.
+
+_Second_. The statement that man is a lost sinner
+is not true. There are thousands and thousands of
+magnificent Pagans--men ready to die for wife, or
+child, or even for friend, and the history of Pagan
+countries is filled with self-denying and heroic acts.
+If man is a failure, the infinite God, if there be one,
+is to blame. Is it possible that the God of Mr. Tal-
+mage could not have made man a success? Accord-
+ing to the Bible, his God made man knowing that in
+about fifteen hundred years he would have to drown
+all his descendants.
+
+202
+
+Why would a good God create a man that he
+knew would be a sinner all his life, make hundreds
+of thousands of his fellow-men unhappy, and who at
+last would be doomed to an eternity of suffering?
+Can such a God be good? How could a devil have
+done worse?
+
+_Third._ If God is infinitely good, is he not fully as
+sympathetic as Christ? Do you have to employ
+Christ to mollify a being of infinite mercy? Is Christ
+any more willing to take to his heart the whole world
+than his Father is? Personally, I have not the
+slightest objection in the world to anybody believing
+in an infinitely good and kind God--not the slightest
+objection to any human being worshiping an infi-
+nitely tender and merciful Christ--not the slightest
+objection to people preaching about heaven, or about
+the glories of the future state--not the slightest.
+
+_Fourth_. I object to the doctrine of two destinies
+for the human race. I object to the infamous false-
+hood of eternal fire. And yet, Mr. Talmage is en-
+deavoring to poison the imagination of men, women
+and children with the doctrine of an eternal hell.
+Here is what he preaches, taken from the "Constitu-
+"tion of the Presbyterian Church of the United
+"States:"
+
+203
+
+"By the decrees of God, for the manifestation of
+"his glory, some men and angels are predestinated
+"to everlasting life, and others foreordained to ever-
+"lasting death."
+
+That is the doctrine of Mr. Talmage. He wor-
+ships a God who damns people "for the manifesta-
+"tion of his glory,"--a God who made men, knowing
+that they would be damned--a God who damns
+babes simply to increase his reputation with the
+angels. This is the God of Mr. Talmage. Such a
+God I abhor, despise and execrate.
+
+_Question_. What does Mr. Talmage think of man-
+kind? What is his opinion of the "unconverted"?
+How does he regard the great and glorious of the
+earth, who have not been the victims of his particular
+superstition? What does he think of some of the
+best the earth has produced?
+
+_Answer_. I will tell you how he looks upon all
+such. Read this from his "Confession of Faith:"
+
+"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety
+"of the tempter, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.
+"By this sin, they fell from their original righteous-
+"ness and communion with God, and so became
+"dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties
+
+204
+
+"and parts of soul and body; and they being the
+"root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was
+"imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted
+"nature conveyed to all their posterity. From this
+"original corruption--whereby we are utterly indis-
+"posed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,
+"and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual
+"transgressions."
+
+This is Mr. Talmage's view of humanity.
+
+Why did his God make a devil? Why did he
+allow the devil to tempt Adam and Eve? Why did
+he leave innocence and ignorance at the mercy of
+subtlety and wickedness? Why did he put "the
+"tree of the knowledge of good and evil" in the
+garden? For what reason did he place temptation
+in the way of his children? Was it kind, was it just,
+was it noble, was it worthy of a good God? No
+wonder Christ put into his prayer: "Lead us not
+"into temptation."
+
+At the time God told Adam and Eve not to eat,
+why did he not tell them of the existence of Satan?
+Why were they not put upon their guard against the
+serpent? Why did not God make his appearance
+just before the sin, instead of just after. Why did
+he not play the role of a Savior instead of that of a
+
+205
+
+detective? After he found that Adam and Eve had
+sinned--knowing as he did that they were then
+totally corrupt--knowing that all their children
+would be corrupt, knowing that in fifteen hundred
+years he would have to drown millions of them, why
+did he not allow Adam and Eve to perish in accord-
+ance with natural law, then kill the devil, and make a
+new pair?
+
+When the flood came, why did he not drown all?
+Why did he save for seed that which was "perfectly
+"and thoroughly corrupt in all its parts and facul-
+"ties"? If God had drowned Noah and his sons
+and their families, he could have then made a new
+pair, and peopled the world with men not "wholly
+"defiled in all their faculties and parts of soul and
+"body."
+
+Jehovah learned nothing by experience. He per-
+sisted in his original mistake. What would we think
+of a man who finding that a field of wheat was
+worthless, and that such wheat never could be
+raised with profit, should burn all of the field with the
+exception of a few sheaves, which he saved for seed?
+Why save such seed? Why should God have pre-
+served Noah, knowing that he was totally corrupt,
+and that he would again fill the world with infamous
+
+206
+
+people--people incapable of a good action? He
+must have known at that time, that by preserving
+Noah, the Canaanites would be produced, that these
+same Canaanites would have to be murdered, that
+the babes in the cradles would have to be strangled.
+Why did he produce them? He knew at that time,
+that Egypt would result from the salvation of Noah,
+that the Egyptians would have to be nearly de-
+stroyed, that he would have to kill their first-born,
+that he would have to visit even their cattle with
+disease and hailstones. He knew also that the
+Egyptians would oppress his chosen people for two
+hundred and fifteen years, that they would upon the
+back of toil inflict the lash. Why did he preserve
+Noah? He should have drowned all, and started
+with a new pair. He should have warned them
+against the devil, and he might have succeeded, in
+that way, in covering the world with gentlemen and
+ladies, with real men and real women.
+
+We know that most of the people now in the
+world are not Christians. Most who have heard the
+gospel of Christ have rejected it, and the Presby-
+terian Church tells us what is to become of all these
+people. This is the "glad tidings of great joy."
+Let us see:
+
+207
+
+"All mankind, by their fall, lost communion with
+"God, are under his wrath and curse, and so made
+"liable to all the miseries of this life, to death itself,
+"and to the pains of hell forever."
+
+According to this good Presbyterian doctrine, all
+that we suffer in this world, is the result of Adam's
+fall. The babes of to-day suffer for the crime of the
+first parents. Not only so; but God is angry at us
+for what Adam did. We are under the wrath of an
+infinite God, whose brows are corrugated with eternal
+hatred.
+
+Why should God hate us for being what we are
+and necessarily must have been? A being that God
+made--the devil--for whose work God is responsible,
+according to the Bible wrought this woe. God of his
+own free will must have made the devil. What did
+he make him for? Was it necessary to have a devil
+in heaven? God, having infinite power, can of
+course destroy this devil to-day. Why does he per-
+mit him to live? Why did he allow him to thwart his
+plans? Why did he permit him to pollute the inno-
+cence of Eden? Why does he allow him now to
+wrest souls by the million from the redeeming hand
+of Christ?
+
+According to the Scriptures, the devil has always
+
+208
+
+been successful. He enjoys himself. He is called
+"the prince of the power of the air." He has no
+conscientious scruples. He has miraculous power.
+All miraculous power must come of God, otherwise
+it is simply in accordance with nature. If the devil
+can work a miracle, it is only with the consent and
+by the assistance of the Almighty. Is the God of
+Mr. Talmage in partnership with the devil? Do
+they divide profits?
+
+We are also told by the Presbyterian Church--
+I quote from their Confession of Faith--that "there
+"is no sin so small but it deserves damnation.'' Yet
+Mr. Talmage tells us that God is good, that he is filled
+with mercy and loving-kindness. A child nine or ten
+years of age commits a sin, and thereupon it deserves
+eternal damnation. That is what Mr. Talmage calls,
+not simply justice, but mercy; and the sympathetic
+heart of Christ is not touched. The same being who
+said: "Suffer little children to come unto me," tells
+us that a child, for the smallest sin, deserves to be
+eternally damned. The Presbyterian Church tells us
+that infants, as well as adults, in order to be saved,
+need redemption by the blood of Christ, and regen-
+eration by the Holy Ghost.
+
+I am charged with trying to take the consolation
+
+209
+
+of this doctrine from the world. I am a criminal
+because I am endeavoring to convince the mother
+that her child does not deserve eternal punishment.
+I stand by the graves of those who "died in their
+"sins," by the tombs of the "unregenerate," over the
+ashes of men who have spent their lives working for
+their wives and children, and over the sacred dust of
+soldiers who died in defence of flag and country,
+and I say to their friends--I say to the living who
+loved them, I say to the men and women for whom
+they worked, I say to the children whom they edu-
+cated, I say to the country for which they died:
+These fathers, these mothers, these wives, these
+husbands, these soldiers are not in hell.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage insists that the Bible is
+scientific, and that the real scientific man sees no
+contradiction between revelation and science; that,
+on the contrary, they are in harmony. What is your
+understanding of this matter?
+
+_Answer_. I do not believe the Bible to be a sci-
+entific book. In fact, most of the ministers now admit
+that it was not written to teach any science. They
+admit that the first chapter of Genesis is not geo-
+logically true. They admit that Joshua knew nothing
+
+210
+
+of science. They admit that four-footed birds did
+not exist in the days of Moses. In fact, the only
+way they can avoid the unscientific statements of the
+Bible, is to assert that the writers simply used the
+common language of their day, and used it, not with
+the intention of teaching any scientific truth, but for
+the purpose of teaching some moral truth. As a
+matter of fact, we find that moral truths have been
+taught in all parts of this world. They were taught
+in India long before Moses lived; in Egypt long be-
+fore Abraham was born; in China thousands of
+years before the flood. They were taught by hundreds
+and thousands and millions before the Garden of
+Eden was planted.
+
+It would be impossible to prove the truth of a
+revelation simply because it contained moral truths.
+If it taught immorality, it would be absolutely certain
+that it was not a revelation from an infinitely good
+being. If it taught morality, it would be no reason
+for even suspecting that it had a divine origin. But
+if the Bible had given us scientific truths; if the
+ignorant Jews had given us the true theory of our
+solar system; if from Moses we had learned the
+nature of light and heat; if from Joshua we had
+learned something of electricity; if the minor pro-
+
+211
+
+phets had given us the distances to other planets;
+if the orbits of the stars had been marked by the
+barbarians of that day, we might have admitted that
+they must have been inspired. If they had said any-
+thing in advance of their day; if they had plucked
+from the night of ignorance one star of truth, we
+might have admitted the claim of inspiration; but
+the Scriptures did not rise above their source, did
+not rise above their ignorant authors--above the
+people who believed in wars of extermination, in
+polygamy, in concubinage, in slavery, and who taught
+these things in their "sacred Scriptures."
+
+The greatest men in the scientific world have not
+been, and are not, believers in the inspiration of the
+Scriptures. There has been no greater astronomer
+than Laplace. There is no greater name than
+Humboldt. There is no living scientist who stands
+higher than Charles Darwin. All the professors in
+all the religious colleges in this country rolled into
+one, would not equal Charles Darwin. All the cow-
+ardly apologists for the cosmogony of Moses do not
+amount to as much in the world of thought as Ernst
+Haeckel. There is no orthodox scientist the equal
+of Tyndall or Huxley. There is not one in this
+country the equal of John Fiske. I insist, that the
+
+212
+
+foremost men to-day in the scientific world reject the
+dogma of inspiration. They reject the science of the
+Bible, and hold in utter contempt the astronomy of
+Joshua, and the geology of Moses.
+
+Mr. Talmage tells us "that Science is a boy and
+"Revelation is a man." Of course, like the most he
+says, it is substantially the other way. Revelation,
+so-called, was the boy. Religion was the lullaby of
+the cradle, the ghost-story told by the old woman,
+Superstition. Science is the man. Science asks for
+demonstration. Science impels us to investigation,
+and to verify everything for ourselves. Most pro-
+fessors of American colleges, if they were not afraid
+of losing their places, if they did not know that
+Christians were bad enough now to take the bread
+from their mouths, would tell their students that the
+Bible is not a scientific book.
+
+I admit that I have said:
+
+1. That the Bible is cruel.
+
+2. That in many passages it is impure.
+
+3. That it is contradictory.
+
+4. That it is unscientific.
+
+Let me now prove these propositions one by one.
+
+First. The Bible is cruel.
+
+I have opened it at random, and the very first
+
+213
+
+chapter that has struck my eye is the sixth of First
+Samuel. In the nineteenth verse of that chapter, I
+find the following:
+
+"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because
+"they had looked into the ark of the Lord; even he
+"smote of the people fifty thousand and three-score
+"and ten men."
+
+All this slaughter was because some people had
+looked into a box that was carried upon a cart. Was
+that cruel?
+
+I find, also, in the twenty-fourth chapter of Second
+Samuel, that David was moved by God to number
+Israel and Judah. God put it into his heart to take
+a census of his people, and thereupon David said to
+Joab, the captain of his host:
+
+"Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from
+"Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people,
+"that I may know the number of the people."
+
+At the end of nine months and twenty days, Joab
+gave the number of the people to the king, and
+there were at that time, according to that census,
+"eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the
+"sword," in Israel, and in Judah, "five hundred
+"thousand men," making a total of thirteen hundred
+thousand men of war. The moment this census was
+
+214
+
+taken, the wrath of the Lord waxed hot against
+David, and thereupon he sent a seer, by the name of
+Gad, to David, and asked him to choose whether he
+would have seven years of famine, or fly three
+months before his enemies, or have three days of
+pestilence. David concluded that as God was so
+merciful as to give him a choice, he would be more
+merciful than man, and he chose the pestilence.
+
+Now, it must be remembered that the sin of taking
+the census had not been committed by the people,
+but by David himself, inspired by God, yet the
+people were to be punished for David's sin. So,,
+when David chose the pestilence, God immediately
+killed "seventy thousand men, from Dan even to
+"Beersheba."
+
+"And when the angel stretched out his hand upon
+"Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of
+"the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the
+"people, It is enough; stay now thine hand."
+
+Was this cruel?
+
+Why did a God of infinite mercy destroy seventy
+thousand men? Why did he fill his land with widows
+and orphans, because King David had taken the cen-
+sus? If he wanted to kill anybody, why did he not
+kill David? I will tell you why. Because at that
+
+215
+
+time, the people were considered as the property of
+the king. He killed the people precisely as he killed
+the cattle. And yet, I am told that the Bible is not a
+cruel book.
+
+In the twenty-first chapter of Second Samuel, I
+find that there were three years of famine in the days
+of David, and that David inquired of the Lord the
+reason of the famine; and the Lord told him that it
+was because Saul had slain the Gibeonites. Why did
+not God punish Saul instead of the people? And
+David asked the Gibeonites how he should make
+atonement, and the Gibeonites replied that they
+wanted no silver nor gold, but they asked that seven
+of the sons of Saul might be delivered unto them, so
+that they could hang them before the Lord, in Gibeah.
+And David agreed to the proposition, and thereupon
+he delivered to the Gibeonites the two sons of Rizpah,
+Saul's concubine, and the five sons of Michal, the
+daughter of Saul, and the Gibeonites hanged all
+seven of them together. And Rizpah, more tender
+than them all, with a woman's heart of love kept
+lonely vigil by the dead, "from the beginning of har-
+"vest until water dropped upon them out of heaven,
+"and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest upon
+"them by day, nor the beast of the field by night."
+
+216
+
+I want to know if the following, from the fifteenth
+chapter of First Samuel, is inspired:
+
+"Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I remember that
+"which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for
+"him in the way when he came up from Egypt. Now
+"go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that
+"they have, and spare them not, but slay both man
+"and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,
+"camel and ass."
+
+We must remember that those he was commanded
+to slay had done nothing to Israel. It was something
+done by their forefathers, hundreds of years before;
+and yet they are commanded to slay the women and
+children and even the animals, and to spare none.
+
+It seems that Saul only partially carried into exe-
+cution this merciful command of Jehovah. He spared
+the life of the king. He "utterly destroyed all the
+"people with the edge of the sword," but he kept
+alive the best of the sheep and oxen and of the fat-
+lings and lambs. Then God spake unto Samuel and
+told him that he was very sorry he had made Saul
+king, because he had not killed all the animals, and
+because he had spared Agag; and Samuel asked
+Saul: "What meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine
+"ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?"
+
+217
+
+Are stories like this calculated to make soldiers
+merciful?
+
+So I read in the sixth chapter of Joshua, the fate
+of the city of Jericho: "And they utterly destroyed
+"all that was in the city, both man and woman,
+"young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the
+"edge of the sword. And they burnt the city with
+"fire, and all that was therein." But we are told that
+one family was saved by Joshua, out of the general
+destruction: "And Joshua saved Rahab, the harlot,
+"alive, and her father's household, and all that she
+"had." Was this fearful destruction an act of
+mercy?
+
+It seems that they saved the money of their
+victims: "the silver and gold and the vessels of brass
+"and of iron they put into the treasury of the house
+"of the Lord."
+
+After all this pillage and carnage, it appears
+that there was a suspicion in Joshua's mind that
+somebody was keeping back a part of the treasure.
+Search was made, and a man by the name of Achan
+admitted that he had sinned against the Lord, that he
+had seen a Babylonish garment among the spoils, and
+two hundred shekels of silver and a wedge of gold of
+fifty shekels' weight, and that he took them and hid
+
+2l8
+
+them in his tent. For this atrocious crime it seems
+that the Lord denied any victories to the Jews until
+they found out the wicked criminal. When they dis-
+covered poor Achan, "they took him and his sons
+"and his daughters, and his oxen and his asses and
+"his sheep, and all that he had, and brought them unto
+"the valley of Achor; and all Israel stoned him with
+"stones and burned them with fire after they had
+"stoned them with stones."
+
+After Achan and his sons and his daughters and
+his herds had been stoned and burned to death, we
+are told that "the Lord turned from the fierceness of
+"his anger."
+
+And yet it is insisted that this God "is merciful,
+"and that his loving-kindness is over all his works."
+In the eighth chapter of this same book, the infi-
+nite God, "creator of heaven and earth and all that is
+"therein," told his general, Joshua, to lay an ambush
+for a city--to "lie in wait against the city, even be-
+"hind the city; go not very far from the city, but be
+"ye all ready." He told him to make an attack and
+then to run, as though he had been beaten, in order
+that the inhabitants of the city might follow, and
+thereupon his reserves that he had ambushed might
+rush into the city and set it on fire. God Almighty
+
+219
+
+planned the battle. God himself laid the snare. The
+whole programme was carried out. Joshua made
+believe that he was beaten, and fled, and then the
+soldiers in ambush rose out of their places, enter-
+ed the city, and set it on fire. Then came the
+slaughter. They "utterly destroyed all the inhabit-
+"ants of Ai," men and maidens, women and babes,
+sparing only their king till evening, when they
+hanged him on a tree, then "took his carcase down
+"from the tree and cast it at the entering of the
+"gate, and raised thereon a great heap of stones
+"which remaineth unto this day." After having
+done all this, "Joshua built an altar unto the Lord
+"God of Israel, and offered burnt offerings unto the
+"Lord." I ask again, was this cruel?
+
+Again I ask, was the treatment of the Gibeonites
+cruel when they sought to make peace but were
+denied, and cursed instead; and although permitted
+to live, were yet made slaves? Read the mandate
+consigning them to bondage: "Now therefore ye
+"are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed
+"from being bondmen and hewers of wood and
+"drawers of water for the house of my God."
+
+Is it possible, as recorded in the tenth chapter of
+Joshua, that the Lord took part in these battles, and
+
+220
+
+cast down great hail-stones from the battlements of
+heaven upon the enemies of the Israelites, so that
+"they were more who died with hail-stones, than
+"they whom the children of Israel slew with the
+"sword"?
+
+Is it possible that a being of infinite power would
+exercise it in that way instead of in the interest of
+kindness and peace?
+
+I find, also, in this same chapter, that Joshua took
+Makkedah and smote it with the edge of the sword,
+that he utterly destroyed all the souls that were
+therein, that he allowed none to remain.
+
+I find that he fought against Libnah, and smote
+it with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed
+all the souls that were therein, and allowed none to
+remain, and did unto the king as he did unto the king
+of Jericho.
+
+I find that he also encamped against Lachish, and
+that God gave him that city, and that he "smote it
+"with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that
+"were therein," sparing neither old nor young, help-
+less women nor prattling babes.
+
+He also vanquished Horam, King of Gezer, "and
+"smote him and his people until he left him none
+"remaining."
+
+221
+
+He encamped against the city of Eglon, and killed
+every soul that was in it, at the edge of the sword,
+just as he had done to Lachish and all the others.
+
+He fought against Hebron, "and took it and
+"smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king
+"thereof,"--and it appears that several cities, their
+number not named, were included in this slaughter,
+for Hebron "and all the cities thereof and all the
+"souls that were therein," were utterly destroyed.
+
+He then waged war against Debir and took it, and
+more unnumbered cities with it, and all the souls that
+were therein shared the same horrible fate--he did
+not leave a soul alive.
+
+And this chapter of horrors concludes with this
+song of victory:
+
+"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and
+"of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs,
+"and all their kings: he left none remaining, but
+"utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord
+"God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote
+"them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the
+"country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. And all these
+"kings and their land did Joshua take at one time,
+"because the Lord God of Israel fought for Israel."
+Was God, at that time, merciful?
+
+222
+
+I find, also, in the twenty-first chapter that many
+Icings met, with their armies, for the purpose of
+overwhelming Israel, and the Lord said unto Joshua:
+"Be not afraid because of them, for to-morrow about
+"this time I will deliver them all slain before Israel.
+"I will hough their horses and burn their chariots
+"with fire." Were animals so treated by the com-
+mand of a merciful God?
+
+Joshua captured Razor, and smote all the souls
+that were therein with the edge of the sword, there
+was not one left to breathe; and he took all the
+cities of all the kings that took up arms against him,
+and utterly destroyed all the inhabitants thereof.
+He took the cattle and spoils as prey unto himself,
+and smote every man with the edge of the sword;
+and not only so, but left not a human being to
+breathe.
+
+I find the following directions given to the Israel-
+ites who were waging a war of conquest. They are
+in the twentieth chapter of Deuteronomy, from the
+tenth to the eighteenth verses:
+
+"When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight
+"against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it
+"shall be, if it make thee an answer of peace, and
+"open unto thee, then it shall be that all the people
+
+223
+
+"that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee,
+"and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no
+"peace with thee, but will war against thee, then
+"thou shalt besiege it. And when the Lord thy
+"God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt
+"smite every male thereof with the edge of the
+"sword; but the women, and the little ones, and
+"the cattle, and all that is in the city, even the spoil
+"thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou
+"shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the
+"Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou
+"do unto all the cities which are very far off from
+"thee, which are not of the cities of these nations."
+It will be seen from this that people could take
+their choice between death and slavery, provided
+these people lived a good ways from the Israelites.
+Now, let us see how they were to treat the inhabit-
+ants of the cities near to them:
+
+"But of the cities of these people which the Lord
+"thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou
+"shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou
+"shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites,
+"and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites,
+"the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord thy God
+"hath commanded thee."
+
+224
+
+It never occurred to this merciful God to send
+missionaries to these people. He built them no
+schoolhouses, taught them no alphabet, gave them
+no book; they were not supplied even with a copy of
+the Ten Commandments. He did not say "Reform,"
+but "Kill;" not "Educate," but "Destroy." He gave
+them no Bible, built them no church, sent them no
+preachers. He knew when he made them that he
+would have to have them murdered. When he
+created them he knew that they were not fit to live;
+and yet, this is the infinite God who is infinitely
+merciful and loves his children better than an earthly
+mother loves her babe.
+
+In order to find just how merciful God is, read the
+twenty-eighth chapter of Deuteronomy, and see what
+he promises to do with people who do not keep all of
+his commandments and all of his statutes. He curses
+them in their basket and store, in the fruit of their
+body, in the fruit of their land, in the increase of their
+cattle and sheep. He curses them in the city and in
+the field, in their coming in and their going out. He
+curses them with pestilence, with consumption, with
+fever, with inflammation, with extreme burning, with
+sword, with blasting, with mildew. He tells them
+that the heavens shall be as brass over their heads
+
+225
+
+and the earth as iron under their feet; that the rain
+shall be powder and dust and shall come down on
+them and destroy them; that they shall flee seven
+ways before their enemies; that their carcasses shall
+be meat for the fowls of the air, and the beasts of the
+earth; that he will smite them with the botch of
+Egypt, and with the scab, and with the itch, and with
+madness and blindness and astonishment; that he
+will make them grope at noonday; that they shall be
+oppressed and spoiled evermore; that one shall be-
+troth a wife and another shall have her; that they
+shall build a house and not dwell in it; plant a vine-
+yard and others shall eat the grapes; that their
+sons and daughters shall be given to their enemies;
+that he will make them mad for the sight of their
+eyes; that he will smite them in the knees and in the
+legs with a sore botch that cannot be healed, and
+from the sole of the foot to the top of the head;
+that they shall be a by-word among all nations; that
+they shall sow much seed and gather but little; that
+the locusts shall consume their crops; that they shall
+plant vineyards and drink no wine,--that they shall
+gather grapes, but worms shall eat them; that they
+shall raise olives but have no oil; beget sons and
+daughters, but they shall go into captivity; that all
+
+226
+
+the trees and fruit of the land shall be devoured by
+locusts, and that all these curses shall pursue them
+and overtake them, until they be destroyed; that they
+shall be slaves to their enemies, and be constantly in
+hunger and thirst and nakedness, and in want of all
+things. And as though this were not enough, the
+Lord tells them that he will bring a nation against
+them swift as eagles, a nation fierce and savage, that
+will show no mercy and no favor to old or young,
+and leave them neither corn, nor wine, nor oil, nor
+flocks, nor herds; and this nation shall besiege them
+in their cities until they are reduced to the necessity
+of eating the flesh of their own sons and daughters;
+so that the men would eat their wives and their
+children, and women eat their husbands and their
+own sons and daughters, and their own babes.
+
+All these curses God pronounced upon them if they
+did not observe to do all the words of the law that
+were written in his book.
+
+This same merciful God threatened that he would
+bring upon them all the diseases of Egypt--every
+sickness and every plague; that he would scatter
+them from one end of the earth to the other; that
+they should find no rest; that their lives should hang
+in perpetual doubt; that in the morning they would
+
+227
+
+say: Would God it were evening! and in the even-
+ing, Would God it were morning! and that he would
+finally take them back to Egypt where they should
+be again sold for bondmen and bondwomen.
+
+This curse, the foundation of the _Anathema
+maranatha_; this curse, used by the pope of Rome to
+prevent the spread of thought; this curse used even
+by the Protestant Church; this curse born of barba-
+rism and of infinite cruelty, is now said to have
+issued from the lips of an infinitely merciful God. One
+would suppose that Jehovah had gone insane; that
+he had divided his kingdom like Lear, and from the
+darkness of insanity had launched his curses upon a
+world.
+
+In order that there may be no doubt as to the
+mercy of Jehovah, read the thirteenth chapter of
+Deuteronomy:
+
+"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy
+"son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or
+"thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee
+"secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,
+"which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers;
+" * * * thou shalt not consent unto him, nor
+"hearken unto him; neither shall thine eyes pity him,
+"neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal
+
+228
+
+"him; but thou shalt surely kill him: thine hand
+"shall be first upon him to put him to death, and
+"afterwards the hand of all the people; and thou
+"shalt stone him with stones that he die, because he
+"hath sought to entice thee away from the Lord thy
+"God."
+
+This, according to Mr. Talmage, is a commandment
+of the infinite God. According to him, God ordered
+a man to murder his own son, his own wife, his own
+brother, his own daughter, if they dared even to sug-
+gest the worship of some other God than Jehovah.
+For my part, it is impossible not to despise such
+a God--a God not willing that one should worship
+what he must. No one can control his admiration,
+and if a savage at sunrise falls upon his knees and
+offers homage to the great light of the East, he can-
+not help it. If he worships the moon, he cannot help
+it. If he worships fire, it is because he cannot control
+his own spirit. A picture is beautiful to me in spite
+of myself. A statue compels the applause of my
+brain. The worship of the sun was an exceedingly
+natural religion, and why should a man or woman be
+destroyed for kneeling at the fireside of the world?
+
+No wonder that this same God, in the very next
+chapter of Deuteronomy to that quoted, says to his
+
+229
+
+chosen people: "Ye shall not eat of anything that
+"dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger
+"that is within thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou
+"mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art a holy
+"people unto the Lord thy God."
+
+What a mingling of heartlessness and thrift--the
+religion of sword and trade!
+
+In the seventh chapter of Deuteronomy, Jehovah
+gives his own character. He tells the Israelites that
+there are seven nations greater and mightier than
+themselves, but that he will deliver them to his chosen
+people, and that they shall smite them and utterly
+destroy them; and having some fear that a drop of
+pity might remain in the Jewish heart, he says:
+
+"Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor
+"show mercy unto them. * * * Know therefore
+"that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God,
+"which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that
+"love him and keep his commandments to a thousand
+"generations, and repayeth them that hate him to
+"their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to
+"him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face."
+This is the description which the merciful, long-suffer-
+ing Jehovah gives of himself.
+
+So, he promises great prosperity to the Jews if
+
+230
+
+they will only obey his commandments, and says:
+"And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness,
+"and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt
+"upon thee, but will lay them upon all them that
+"hate thee. And thou shalt consume all the people
+"which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine
+"eye shall have no pity upon them."
+
+Under the immediate government of Jehovah,
+mercy was a crime. According to the law of God,
+pity was weakness, tenderness was treason, kindness
+was blasphemy, while hatred and massacre were
+virtues.
+
+In the second chapter of Deuteronomy we find
+another account tending to prove that Jehovah is a
+merciful God. We find that Sihon, king of Heshbon,
+would not let the Hebrews pass by him, and the
+reason given is, that "the Lord God hardened his
+"spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might
+"deliver him into the hand" of the Hebrews. Sihon,
+his heart having been hardened by God, came out
+against the chosen people, and God delivered him to
+them, and "they smote him, and his sons, and all his
+"people, and took all his cities, and utterly destroyed
+"the men and the women, and the little ones of
+"every city: they left none to remain." And in this
+
+231
+
+same chapter this same God promises that the dread
+and fear of his chosen people should be "upon all the
+"nations that are under the whole heaven," and that
+"they should "tremble and be in anguish because of"
+the Hebrews.
+
+Read the thirty-first chapter of Numbers, and see
+how the Midianites were slain. You will find that
+"the children of Israel took all the women of Midian
+"captives, and their little ones," that they took "all
+"their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods,"
+that they slew all the males, and burnt all their cities
+and castles with fire, that they brought the captives
+and the prey and the spoil unto Moses and Eleazar
+the priest; that Moses was wroth with the officers
+of his host because they had saved all the women
+alive, and thereupon this order was given: "Kill
+"every male among the little ones, and kill every
+"woman, * * * but all the women children
+"keep alive for yourselves."
+
+After this, God himself spake unto Moses, and
+said: "Take the sum of the prey that was taken,
+"both of man and of beast, thou and Eleazar the
+"priest * * * and divide the prey into two
+"parts, between those who went to war, and between
+"all the congregation, and levy a tribute unto the
+
+232
+
+"Lord, one soul of five hundred of the persons,
+"and the cattle; take it of their half and give it to
+"the priest for an offering * * * and of the
+"children of Israel's half, take one portion of fifty of
+"the persons and the animals and give them unto
+"the Levites. * * * And Moses and the priest
+"did as the Lord had commanded." It seems that
+they had taken six hundred and seventy-five thou-
+sand sheep, seventy-two thousand beeves, sixty-one
+thousand asses, and thirty-two thousand women
+children and maidens. And it seems, by the fortieth
+verse, _that the Lord's tribute of the maidens was thirty-
+two_,--the rest were given to the soldiers and to the
+congregation of the Lord.
+
+Was anything more infamous ever recorded in the
+annals of barbarism? And yet we are told that the
+Bible is an inspired book, that it is not a cruel book,
+and that Jehovah is a being of infinite mercy.
+
+In the twenty-fifth chapter of Numbers we find
+that the Israelites had joined themselves unto Baal-
+Peor, and thereupon the anger of the Lord was
+kindled against them, as usual. No being ever lost
+his temper more frequently than this Jehovah. Upon
+this particular occasion, "the Lord said unto Moses,
+"Take all the heads of the people, and hang them
+
+233
+
+"up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce
+"anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel."
+And thereupon "Moses said unto the judges of Israel,
+"Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto
+"Baal-peor."
+
+Just as soon as these people were killed, and their
+heads hung up before the Lord against the sun, and
+a horrible double murder of a too merciful Israelite
+and a Midianitish woman, had been committed by
+Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, "the plague was stayed
+"from the children of Israel." Twenty-four thousand
+had died. Thereupon, "the Lord spake unto Moses
+"and said"--and it is a very merciful commandment
+--"Vex the Midianites and smite them."
+
+In the twenty-first chapter of Numbers is more evi-
+dence that God is merciful and compassionate.
+
+The children of Israel had become discouraged.
+They had wandered so long in the desert that they
+finally cried out: "Wherefore have ye brought us
+"up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There
+"is no bread, there is no water, and our soul loatheth
+"this light bread." Of course they were hungry and
+thirsty. Who would not complain under similar cir-
+cumstances? And yet, on account of this complaint,
+the God of infinite tenderness and compassion sent
+
+234
+
+serpents among them, and these serpents bit them--
+bit the cheeks of children, the breasts of maidens,
+and the withered faces of age. Why would a God
+do such an infamous thing? Why did he not, as the
+leader of this people, his chosen children, feed them
+better? Certainly an infinite God had the power
+to satisfy their hunger and to quench their thirst.
+He who overwhelmed a world with water, certainly
+could have made a few brooks, cool and babbling,
+to follow his chosen people through all their jour-
+neying. He could have supplied them with miracu-
+lous food.
+
+How fortunate for the Jews that Jehovah was not
+revengeful, that he was so slow to anger, so patient,
+so easily pleased. What would they have done had
+he been exacting, easily incensed, revengeful, cruel,
+or blood-thirsty?
+
+In the sixteenth chapter of Numbers, an account is
+given of a rebellion. It seems that Korah, Dathan
+and Abiram got tired of Moses and Aaron. They
+thought the priests were taking a little too much
+upon themselves. So Moses told them to have two
+hundred and fifty of their men bring their censers
+and put incense in them before the Lord, and stand
+in the door of the tabernacle of the congregation
+
+235
+
+with Moses and Aaron. That being done, the Lord
+appeared, and told Moses and Aaron to separate
+themselves from the people, that he might consume
+them all in a moment. Moses and Aaron, having a
+little compassion, begged God not to kill everybody.
+The people were then divided, and Dathan and
+Abiram came out and stood in the door of their
+tents with their wives and their sons and their little
+children. And Moses said:
+
+"Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent
+"me to do all these works; for I have not done them
+"of my mine own mind. If these men die the
+"common death of all men, or if they be visited
+"after the common visitation of all men, then the
+"Lord hath not sent me. But if the Lord make a
+"new thing, and the earth open her mouth and
+"swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them,
+"and they go down quick into the pit, then ye shall
+"understand that these men have provoked the
+"Lord." The moment he ceased speaking, "the
+"ground clave asunder that was under them; and
+"the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up,
+"and their houses, and all the men that appertained
+"unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that
+"appertained to them went down alive into the pit,
+
+236
+
+"and the earth closed upon them, and they perished
+"from among the congregation."
+
+This, according to Mr. Talmage, was the act of an
+exceedingly merciful God, prompted by infinite kind-
+ness, and moved by eternal pity. What would he
+have done had he acted from motives of revenge?
+What would he Jiave done had he been remorse-
+lessly cruel and wicked?
+
+In addition to those swallowed by the earth, the
+two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense
+were consumed by "a fire that came out from the
+"Lord." And not only this, but the same merciful
+Jehovah wished to consume all the people, and he
+would have consumed them all, only that Moses pre-
+vailed upon Aaron to take a censer and put fire
+therein from off the altar of incense and go quickly
+to the congregation and make an atonement for them.
+He was not quick enough. The plague had already
+begun; and before he could possibly get the censers
+and incense among the people, fourteen thousand and
+seven hundred had died of the plague. How many
+more might have died, if Jehovah had not been so
+slow to anger and so merciful and tender to his
+children, we have no means of knowing.
+
+In the thirteenth chapter of the same book of
+
+237
+
+Numbers, we find that some spies were sent over
+into the promised land, and that they brought back
+grapes and figs and pomegranates, and reported that
+the whole land was flowing with milk and honey, but
+that the people were strong, that the cities were
+walled, and that the nations in the promised land
+were mightier than the Hebrews. They reported that
+all the people they met were men of a great stature,
+that they had seen "the giants, the sons of Anak
+"which come of giants," compared with whom the
+Israelites were "in their own sight as grasshoppers,
+"and so were we in their sight." Entirely discour-
+aged by these reports, "all the congregation lifted up
+"their voice and cried, and the people wept that
+"night * * * and murmured against Moses and
+"against Aaron, and said unto them: Would God
+"that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would
+"God we had died in this wilderness!" Some of
+them thought that it would be better to go back,--
+that they might as well be slaves in Egypt as to be
+food for giants in the promised land. They did not
+want their bones crunched between the teeth of the
+sons of Anak.
+
+Jehovah got angry again, and said to Moses:
+"How long will these people provoke me? * * *
+
+238
+
+"I will smite them with pestilence, and disinherit
+"them." But Moses said: Lord, if you do this,
+the Egyptians will hear of it, and they will say that
+you were not able to bring your people into the
+promised land. Then he proceeded to flatter him by
+telling him how merciful and long-suffering he had
+been. Finally, Jehovah concluded to pardon the
+people this time, but his pardon depended upon the
+violation of his promise, for he said: "They shall
+"not see the land which I sware unto their fathers,
+"neither shall any of them that provoked me see it;
+"but my servant Caleb, * * * him will I bring
+"into the land." And Jehovah said to the people:
+"Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness, and all
+"that were numbered of you according to your
+"whole number, from twenty years old and upward,
+"which have murmured against me, ye shall not
+"come into the land concerning which I sware to
+"make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of
+"Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. But your
+"little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them
+"will I bring in, and they shall know the land
+"which ye have despised. But as for you, your
+"carcasses shall fall in this wilderness. And your
+"children shall wander in the wilderness forty
+
+239
+
+"years * * * until your carcasses be wasted in
+"the wilderness."
+
+And all this because the people were afraid of
+giants, compared with whom they were but as grass-
+hoppers.
+
+So we find that at one time the people became
+exceedingly hungry. They had no flesh to eat.
+There were six hundred thousand men of war, and
+they had nothing to feed on but manna. They
+naturally murmured and complained, and thereupon a
+wind from the Lord went forth and brought quails
+from the sea, (quails are generally found in the sea,)
+"and let them fall by the camp, as it were a day's
+"journey on this side, and as it were a day's journey
+"on the other side, round about the camp, and as it
+"were two cubits high upon the face of the earth.
+"And the people stood up all that day, and all that
+"night, and all the next day, and they gathered the
+"quails. * * * And while the flesh was yet be-
+"tween their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of
+"the Lord was kindled against the people, and the
+"Lord smote the people with a very great plague."
+
+Yet he is slow to anger, long-suffering, merciful
+and just.
+
+In the thirty-second chapter of Exodus, is the ac-
+
+240
+
+count of the golden calf. It must be borne in mind
+that the worship of this calf by the people was before
+the Ten Commandments had been given to them.
+Christians now insist that these commandments must
+have been inspired, because no human being could
+have constructed them,--could have conceived of
+them.
+
+It seems, according to this account, that Moses had
+been up in the mount with God, getting the Ten Com-
+mandments, and that while he was there the people
+had made the golden calf. When he came down and
+saw them, and found what they had done, having in
+his hands the two tables, the work of God, he cast
+the tables out of his hands, and broke them beneath
+the mount. He then took the calf which they had
+made, ground it to powder, strewed it in the water,
+and made the children of Israel drink of it. And in the
+twenty-seventh verse we are told what the Lord did:
+"Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man
+"his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate
+"to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man
+"his brother, and every man his companion, and
+"every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi
+"did according to the word of Moses; and there fell
+"of the people that day about three thousand men."
+
+241
+
+The reason for this slaughter is thus given: "For
+"Moses had said: Consecrate yourselves to-day to
+"the Lord, even every man upon his son, and upon
+" his brother, that he may bestow upon you a blessing
+"this day."
+
+Now, it must be remembered that there had not
+been as yet a promulgation of the commandment
+u Thou shalt have no other gods before me." This
+was a punishment for the infraction of a law before
+the law was known--before the commandment had
+been given. Was it cruel, or unjust?
+
+Does the following sound as though spoken by a
+God of mercy: "I will make mine arrows drunk
+"with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh"?
+And yet this is but a small part of the vengeance and
+destruction which God threatens to his enemies, as
+recorded in the thirty-second chapter of the book of
+Deuteronomy.
+
+In the sixty-eighth Psalm is found this merciful
+passage: "That thy foot may be dipped in the blood
+"of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the
+"same.
+
+So we find in the eleventh chapter of Joshua the
+reason why the Canaanites and other nations made
+war upon the Jews. It is as follows: "For it was of
+
+242
+
+"the Lord to harden their hearts that they should
+"come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy
+"them utterly, and that they might have no favor, but
+"that he might destroy them."
+
+Read the thirtieth chapter of Exodus and you will
+find that God gave to Moses a recipe for making
+the oil of holy anointment, and in the thirty-second
+verse we find that no one was to make any oil like it
+and in the next verse it is declared that whoever
+compounded any like it, or whoever put any of it on
+a stranger, should be cut off from the Lord's people.
+
+In the same chapter, a recipe is given for per-
+fumery, and it is declared that whoever shall make
+any like it, or that smells like it, shall suffer death.
+
+In the next chapter, it is decreed that if any one fails
+to keep the Sabbath "he shall be surely put to death."
+
+There are in the Pentateuch hundreds and hun-
+dreds of passages showing the cruelty of Jehovah.
+What could have been more cruel than the flood?
+What more heartless than to overwhelm a world?
+What more merciless than to cover a shoreless sea
+with the corpses of men, women and children?
+
+The Pentateuch is filled with anathemas, with
+curses, with words of vengeance, of jealousy, of
+hatred, and brutality. By reason of these passages,
+
+243
+
+millions of people have plucked from their hearts the
+flowers of pity and justified the murder of women
+and the assassination of babes.
+
+In the second chapter of Second Kings we find
+that the prophet Elisha was on his way to a place
+called Bethel, and as he was going, there came forth
+little children out of the city and mocked him and
+said: "Go up thou bald head; Go up thou bald
+"head! And he turned back and looked on them
+"and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And
+"there came forth two she bears out of the wood and
+"tare forty and two children of them."
+
+Of course he obtained his miraculous power from
+Jehovah; and there must have been some communi-
+cation between Jehovah and the bears. Why did the
+bears come? How did they happen to be there?
+Here is a prophet of God cursing children in the
+name of the Lord, and thereupon these children
+are torn in fragments by wild beasts.
+
+This is the mercy of Jehovah; and yet I am told
+that the Bible has nothing cruel in it; that it preaches
+only mercy, justice, charity, peace; that all hearts
+are softened by reading it; that the savage nature of
+man is melted into tenderness and pity by it, and that
+only the totally depraved can find evil in it.
+
+244
+
+And so I might go on, page after page, book after
+book, in the Old Testament, and describe the cruelties
+committed in accordance with the commands of
+Jehovah.
+
+But all the cruelties in the Old Testament are ab-
+solute mercies compared with the hell of the New
+Testament. In the Old Testament God stops with
+the grave. He seems to have been satisfied when he
+saw his enemies dead, when he saw their flesh rotting
+in the open air, or in the beaks of birds, or in the teeth
+of wild beasts. But in the New Testament, ven-
+geance does not stop with the grave. It begins there,
+and stops never. The enemies of Jehovah are to be
+pursued through all the ages of eternity. There is to
+be no forgiveness--no cessation, no mercy, nothing
+but everlasting pain.
+
+And yet we are told that the author of hell is a
+being of infinite mercy.
+
+_Second_; All intelligent Christians will admit that
+there are many passages in the Bible that, if found in
+the Koran, they would regard as impure and immoral.
+
+It is not necessary for me to specify the passages,
+nor to call the attention of the public to such things.
+I am willing to trust the judgment of every honest
+reader, and the memory of every biblical student.
+
+245
+
+The Old Testament upholds polygamy. That is
+infinitely impure. It sanctions concubinage. That
+is impure; nothing could or can be worse. Hun-
+dreds of things are publicly told that should have re-
+mained unsaid. No one is made better by reading
+the history of Tamar, or the biography of Lot, or
+the memoirs of Noah, of Dinah, of Sarah and
+Abraham, or of Jacob and Leah and Rachel and others
+that I do not care to mention. No one is improved
+in his morals by reading these things.
+
+All I mean to say is, that the Bible is like other
+books produced by other nations in the same stage
+of civilization. What one age considers pure, the
+next considers impure. What one age may consider
+just, the next may look upon as infamous. Civiliza-
+tion is a growth. It is continually dying, and continu-
+ally being born. Old branches rot and fall, new buds
+appear. It is a perpetual twilight, and a perpetual
+dawn--the death of the old, and the birth of the new.
+
+I do not say, throw away the Bible because there
+are some foolish passages in it, but I say, throw away
+the foolish passages. Don't throw away wisdom
+because it is found in company with folly; but do not
+say that folly is wisdom, because it is found in its
+company. All that is true in the Bible is true whether
+
+246
+
+it is inspired or not. All that is true did not need to
+be inspired. Only that which is not true needs the
+assistance of miracles and wonders. I read the Bible
+as I read other books. What I believe to be good,
+I admit is good; what I think is bad, I say is bad;
+what I believe to be true, I say is true, and what I
+believe to be false, I denounce as false.
+
+_Third_. Let us see whether there are any contra-
+dictions in the Bible.
+
+A little book has been published, called "Self
+"Contradictions of the Bible," by J. P. Mendum, of
+The Boston Investigator. I find many of the apparent
+contradictions of the Bible noted in this book.
+
+We all know that the Pentateuch is filled with the
+commandments of God upon the subject of sacrificing
+animals. We know that God declared, again and
+again, that the smell of burning flesh was a sweet
+savor to him. Chapter after chapter is filled with direc-
+tions how to kill the beasts that were set apart for
+sacrifices; what to do with their blood, their flesh and
+their fat. And yet, in the seventh chapter of Jeremiah,
+all this is expressly denied, in the following language:
+"For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded
+"them in the day that I brought them out of the land
+"of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices."
+
+247
+
+And in the sixth chapter of Jeremiah, the same
+Jehovah says; "Your burnt offerings are not ac-
+"ceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me."
+
+In the Psalms, Jehovah derides the idea of
+sacrifices, and says: "Will I eat of the flesh of
+"bulls, or drink the blood of goats? Offer unto God
+"thanksgiving, and pay thy vows unto the Most
+"High."
+
+So I find in Isaiah the following: "Bring no more
+"vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;
+"the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of as-
+"semblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even
+"the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your
+"appointed feasts my soul hateth; they are a trouble
+"to me; I am weary to bear them." "To what
+"purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me?
+"saith the Lord. I am full of the burnt offerings of
+"rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not
+"in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
+"When ye come to appear before me, who hath re-
+"quired this at your hand?"
+
+So I find in James: "Let no man say when he is
+"tempted: I am tempted of God; for God cannot be
+"tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man;"
+and yet in the twenty-second chapter of Genesis I
+
+248
+
+find this: "And it came to pass after these things,
+"that God did tempt Abraham."
+
+In Second Samuel we see that he tempted David.
+He also tempted Job, and Jeremiah says: "O Lord,
+"thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived." To
+such an extent was Jeremiah deceived, that in the
+fourteenth chapter and eighteenth verse we find him
+crying out to the Lord: "Wilt thou be altogether
+"unto me as a liar?"
+
+So in Second Thessalonians: "For these things
+"God shall send them strong delusions, that they
+"should believe a lie."
+
+So in First Kings, twenty-second chapter: "Behold,
+"the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all
+"these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil
+"concerning thee."
+
+So in Ezekiel: "And if the prophet be deceived
+"when he hath spoken a thing, I, the Lord, have de-
+"ceived that prophet."
+
+So I find: "Thou shalt not bear false witness;"
+and in the book of Revelation: "All liars shall have
+"their part in the lake which burneth with fire and
+"brimstone;" yet in First Kings, twenty-second
+chapter, I find the following: "And the Lord said:
+"Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and
+
+249
+
+"fall at Ramoth-Gilead? And one said on this
+"manner, and another said on that manner. And
+"there came forth a spirit and stood before the Lord,
+"and said: I will persuade him. And the Lord said
+"unto him: Wherewith? And he said: I will go
+"forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all
+"his prophets. And he said: Thou shalt persuade
+"him, and prevail also. Go forth, and do so."
+
+In the Old Testament we find contradictory laws
+about the same thing, and contradictory accounts of
+the same occurrences.
+
+In the twentieth chapter of Exodus we find the first
+account of the giving of the Ten Commandments. In
+the thirty-fourth chapter another account of the same
+transaction is given. These two accounts could not
+have been written by the same person. Read them,
+and you will be forced to admit that both of them
+cannot by any possibility be true. They differ in so
+many particulars, and the commandments themselves
+are so different, that it is impossible that both can be
+true.
+
+So there are two histories of the creation. If you
+will read the first and second chapters of Genesis,
+you will find two accounts inconsistent with each
+other, both of which cannot be true. The first account
+
+250
+
+ends with the third verse of the second chapter of
+Genesis. By the first account, man and woman were
+made at the same time, and made last of all. In the
+second account, not to be too critical, all the beasts
+of the field were made before Eve was, and Adam
+was made before the beasts of the field; whereas in
+the first account, God made all the animals before he
+made Adam. In the first account there is nothing
+about the rib or the bone or the side,--that is only
+found in the second account. In the first account,
+there is nothing about the Garden of Eden, nothing
+about the four rivers, nothing about the mist that
+went up from the earth and watered the whole face
+of the ground; nothing said about making man from
+dust; nothing about God breathing into his nostrils
+the breath of life; yet according to the second ac-
+count, the Garden of Eden was planted, and all the
+animals were made before Eve was formed. It is
+impossible to harmonize the two accounts.
+
+So, in the first account, only the word God is
+used--"God said so and so,--God did so and so."
+In the second account he is called Lord God,--"the
+"Lord God formed man,"--"the Lord God caused
+"it to rain,"--"the Lord God planted a garden." It
+is now admitted that the book of Genesis is made up
+
+251
+
+of two stories, and it is very easy to take them apart
+and show exactly how they were put together.
+
+So there are two stories of the flood, differing
+almost entirely from each other--that is to say, so
+contradictory that both cannot be true.
+
+There are two accounts of the manner in which
+Saul was made king, and the accounts are inconsistent
+with each other.
+
+Scholars now everywhere admit that the copyists
+made many changes, pieced out fragments, and made
+additions, interpolations, and meaningless repetitions.
+It is now generally conceded that the speeches of
+Elihu, in Job, were interpolated, and most of the
+prophecies were made by persons whose names even
+are not known.
+
+The manuscripts of the Old Testament were not
+alike. The Greek version differed from the Hebrew,
+and there was no generally received text of the Old
+Testament until after the beginning of the Christian
+era. Marks and points to denote vowels were in-
+vented probably in the seventh century after Christ;
+and whether these marks and points were put in the
+proper places, is still an open question. The Alex-
+andrian version, or what is known as the Septuagint,
+translated by seventy-two learned Jews assisted by
+
+252
+
+miraculous power, about two hundred years before
+Christ, could not, it is now said, have been translated
+from the Hebrew text that we now have. This can
+only be accounted for by supposing that we have a
+different Hebrew text. The early Christians adopted
+the Septuagint and were satisfied for a time; but so
+many errors were found, and so many were scanning
+every word in search of something to assist their
+peculiar views, that new versions were produced,
+and the new versions all differed somewhat from the
+Septuagint as well as from each other. These ver-
+sions were mostly in Greek. The first Latin Bible
+was produced in Africa, and no one has ever found
+out which Latin manuscript was original. Many were
+produced, and all differed from each other. These
+Latin versions were compared with each other and
+with the Hebrew, and a new Latin version was made
+in the fifth century, and the old ones held their own
+for about four hundred years, and no one knows
+which version was right. Besides, there were Ethi-
+opie, Egyptian, Armenian and several other ver-
+sions, all differing from each other as well as from all
+others. It was not until the fourteenth century that
+the Bible was translated into German, and not until
+the fifteenth that Bibles were printed in the principal
+
+253
+
+languages of Europe; and most of these Bibles
+differed from each other, and gave rise to endless
+disputes and to almost numberless crimes.
+
+No man in the world is learned enough, nor has
+he time enough, even if he could live a thousand
+years, to find what books belonged to and consti-
+tuted the Old Testament. He could not ascertain
+the authors of the books, nor when they were written,
+nor what they mean. Until a man has sufficient
+time to do all this, no one can tell whether he be-
+lieves the Bible or not. It is sufficient, however, to
+say that the Old Testament is filled with contradic-
+tions as to the number of men slain in battle, as to
+the number of years certain kings reigned, as to the
+number of a woman's children, as to dates of events,
+and as to locations of towns and cities.
+
+Besides all this, many of its laws are contradictory,
+often commanding and prohibiting the same thing.
+
+The New Testament also is filled with contradic-
+tions. The gospels do not even agree upon the
+terms of salvation. They do not even agree as to
+the gospel of Christ, as to the mission of Christ.
+They do not tell the same story regarding the be-
+trayal, the crucifixion, the resurrection or the ascen-
+sion of Christ. John is the only one that ever heard
+
+254
+
+of being "born again." The evangelists do not give
+the same account of the same miracles, and the
+miracles are not given in the same order. They do
+not agree even in the genealogy of Christ.
+
+_Fourth_. Is the Bible scientific? In my judgment
+it is not
+
+It is unscientific to say that this world was "cre-
+"ated that the universe was produced by an infinite
+being, who had existed an eternity prior to such
+"creation." My mind is such that I cannot possibly
+conceive of a "creation." Neither can I conceive of
+an infinite being who dwelt in infinite space an infi-
+nite length of time.
+
+I do not think it is scientific to say that the uni-
+verse was made in six days, or that this world is only
+about six thousand years old, or that man has only
+been upon the earth for about six thousand years.
+
+If the Bible is true, Adam was the first man. The
+age of Adam is given, the age of his children, and
+the time, according to the Bible, was kept and known
+from Adam, so that if the Bible is true, man has only
+been in this world about six thousand years. In my
+judgment, and in the judgment of every scientific
+man whose judgment is worth having or quoting,
+man inhabited this earth for thousands of ages prior
+
+255
+
+to the creation of Adam. On one point the Bible is
+at least certain, and that is, as to the life of Adam.
+The genealogy is given, the pedigree is there, and it
+is impossible to escape the conclusion that, according
+to the Bible, man has only been upon this earth
+about six thousand years. There is no chance there
+to say "long periods of time," or "geological ages."
+There we have the years. And as to the time of the
+creation of man, the Bible does not tell the truth.
+
+What is generally called "The Fall of Man" is
+unscientific. God could not have made a moral
+character for Adam. Even admitting the rest of the
+story to be true, Adam certainly had to make char-
+acter for himself.
+
+The idea that there never would have been any
+disease or death in this world had it not been for the
+eating of the forbidden fruit is preposterously unsci-
+entific. Admitting that Adam was made only six
+thousand years ago, death was in the world millions of
+years before that time. The old rocks are filled with re-
+mains of what were once living and breathing animals.
+Continents were built up with the petrified corpses of
+animals. We know, therefore, that death did not enter
+the world because of Adam's sin. We know that life
+and death are but successive links in an eternal chain.
+
+256
+
+So it is unscientific to say that thorns and brambles
+were produced by Adam's sin.
+
+It is also unscientific to say that labor was pro-
+nounced as a curse upon man. Labor is not a curse.
+Labor is a blessing. Idleness is a curse.
+
+It is unscientific to say that the sons of God,
+living, we suppose, in heaven, fell in love with the
+daughters of men, and that on account of this a
+flood was sent upon the earth that covered the
+highest mountains.
+
+The whole story of the flood is unscientific, and no
+scientific man worthy of the name, believes it.
+
+Neither is the story of the tower of Babel a scien-
+tific thing. Does any scientific man believe that
+God confounded the language of men for fear they
+would succeed in building a tower high enough to
+reach to heaven?
+
+It is not scientific to say that angels were in the
+habit of walking about the earth, eating veal dressed
+with butter and milk, and making bargains about the
+destruction of cities.
+
+The story of Lot's wife having been turned into a
+pillar of salt is extremely unscientific.
+
+It is unscientific to say that people at one time lived
+to be nearly a thousand years of age. The history
+
+257
+
+of the world shows that human life is lengthening
+instead of shortening.
+
+It is unscientific to say that the infinite God
+wrestled with Jacob and got the better of him, put-
+ting his thigh out of joint.
+
+It is unscientific to say that God, in the likeness of
+a flame of fire, inhabited a bush.
+
+It is unscientific to say that a stick could be
+changed into a living snake. Living snakes can not
+be made out of sticks. There are not the necessary
+elements in a stick to make a snake.
+
+It is not scientific to say that God changed water
+into blood. All the elements of blood are not in
+water.
+
+It is unscientific to declare that dust was changed
+into lice.
+
+It is not scientific to say that God caused a thick
+darkness over the land of Egypt, and yet allowed it
+to be light in the houses of the Jews.
+
+It is not scientific to say that about seventy people
+could, in two hundred and fifteen years increase to
+three millions.
+
+It is not scientific to say that an infinitely good
+God would destroy innocent people to get revenge
+upon a king.
+
+258
+
+It is not scientific to say that slavery was once
+right, that polygamy was once a virtue, and that ex-
+termination was mercy.
+
+It is not scientific to assert that a being of infinite
+power and goodness went into partnership with in-
+sects,--granted letters of marque and reprisal to
+hornets.
+
+It is unscientific to insist that bread was really
+rained from heaven.
+
+It is not scientific to suppose that an infinite being
+spent forty days and nights furnishing Moses with plans
+and specifications for a tabernacle, an ark, a mercy seat,
+cherubs of gold, a table, four rings, some dishes, some
+spoons, one candlestick, several bowls, a few knobs,
+seven lamps, some snuffers, a pair of tongs, some cur-
+tains, a roof for a tent of rams' skins dyed red, a few
+boards, an altar with horns, ash pans, basins and flesh
+hooks, shovels and pots and sockets of silver and
+ouches of gold and pins of brass--for all of which this
+God brought with him patterns from heaven.
+
+It is not scientific to say that when a man commits
+a sin, he can settle with God by killing a sheep.
+
+It is not scientific to say that a priest, by laying
+his hands on the head of a goat, can transfer the sins
+of a people to the animal.
+
+259
+
+Was it scientific to endeavor to ascertain whether
+a woman was virtuous or not, by compelling her to
+drink water mixed with dirt from the floor of the
+sanctuary?
+
+Is it scientific to say that a dry stick budded,
+blossomed, and bore almonds; or that the ashes of a
+red heifer mixed with water can cleanse us of sin;
+or that a good being gave cities into the hands of the
+Jews in consideration of their murdering all the in-
+habitants?
+
+Is it scientific to say that an animal saw an angel,
+and conversed with a man?
+
+Is it scientific to imagine that thrusting a spear
+through the body of a woman ever stayed a plague?
+
+Is it scientific to say that a river cut itself in two
+and allowed the lower end to run off?
+
+Is it scientific to assert that seven priests blew
+seven rams' horns loud enough to blow down the
+walls of a city?
+
+Is it scientific to say that the sun stood still in the
+midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down for
+about a whole day, and that the moon also stayed?
+
+Is it scientifically probable that an angel of the
+Lord devoured unleavened cakes and broth with
+fire that came out of the end of a stick, as he sat
+
+260
+
+under an oak tree; or that God made known his
+will by letting dew fall on wool without wetting the
+ground around it; or that an angel of God appeared
+to Manoah in the absence of her husband, and that
+this angel afterwards went up in a flame of fire, and
+as the result of this visit a child was born whose
+strength was in his hair?
+
+Is it scientific to say that the muscle of a man de-
+pended upon the length of his locks?
+
+Is it unscientific to deny that water gushed from a
+hollow place in a dry bone?
+
+Is it evidence of a thoroughly scientific mind to
+believe that one man turned over a house so large
+that three thousand people were on its roof?
+
+Is it purely scientific to say that a man was once
+fed by the birds of the air, who brought him bread
+and meat every morning and evening, and that after-
+ward an angel turned cook and prepared two sup-
+pers in one night, for the same prophet, who ate
+enough to last him forty days and forty nights?
+
+Is it scientific to say that a river divided because
+the water had been struck with a cloak; or that a
+man actually went to heaven in a chariot of fire
+drawn by horses of fire; or that a being of infinite
+mercy would destroy children for laughing at a bald-
+
+261
+
+headed prophet; or curse children and childrens
+children with leprosy for a father's fault; or that he
+made iron float in water; or that when one corpse
+touched another it came to life; or that the sun went
+backward in heaven so that the shadow on a sun-
+dial went back ten degrees, as a sign that a miserable
+barbarian king would get well?
+
+Is it scientific to say that the earth not only
+stopped in its rotary motion, but absolutely turned
+the other way,--that its motion was reversed simply
+as a sign to a petty king?
+
+Is it scientific to say that Solomon made gold and
+silver at Jerusalem as plentiful as stones, when we
+know that there were kings in his day who could
+have thrown away the value of the whole of Palestine
+without missing the amount?
+
+Is it scientific to say that Solomon exceeded all
+the kings of the earth in glory, when his country
+was barren, without roads, when his people were
+few, without commerce, without the arts, without the
+sciences, without education, without luxuries?
+
+According to the Bible, as long as Jehovah attended
+to the affairs of the Jews, they had nothing but war,
+pestilence and famine; after Jehovah abandoned them,
+and the Christians ceased, in a measure, to persecute
+
+262
+
+them, the Jews became the most prosperous of people.
+Since Jehovah in his anger cast them away, they have
+produced painters, sculptors, scientists, statesmen,
+composers, soldiers and philosophers.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that God ever pre-
+vented rain, that he ever caused famine, that he ever
+sent locusts to devour the wheat and corn, that he
+ever relied on pestilence for the government of man-
+kind; or that he ever killed children to get even with
+their parents.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that the king of Egypt
+invaded Palestine with seventy thousand horsemen
+and twelve hundred chariots of war. There was not,
+at that time, a road in Palestine over which a chariot
+could be driven.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that in a battle between
+Jeroboam and Abijah, the army of Abijah slew in
+one day five hundred thousand chosen men.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that Zerah, the Ethio-
+pian, invaded Palestine with a million of men who
+were overthrown and destroyed; or that Jehoshaphat
+had a standing army of nine hundred and sixty
+thousand men.
+
+It is unscientific to believe that Jehovah advertised
+for a liar, as is related in Second Chronicles.
+
+263
+
+It is not scientific to believe that fire refused to
+burn, or that water refused to wet.
+
+It is not scientific to believe in dreams, in visions,
+and in miracles.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that children have
+been born without fathers, that the dead have ever
+been raised to life, or that people have bodily as-
+cended to heaven taking their clothes with them.
+
+It is not scientific to believe in the supernatural.
+Science dwells in the realm of fact, in the realm of
+demonstration. Science depends upon human ex-
+perience, upon observation, upon reason.
+
+It is unscientific to say that an innocent man can
+be punished in place of a criminal, and for a criminal,
+and that the criminal, on account of such punishment,
+can be justified.
+
+It is unscientific to say that a finite sin deserves
+infinite punishment.
+
+It is unscientific to believe that devils can inhabit
+human beings, or that they can take possession of
+swine, or that the devil could bodily take a man, or
+the Son of God, and carry him to the pinnacle of a
+temple.
+
+In short, the foolish, the unreasonable, the false,
+the miraculous and the supernatural are unscientific.
+
+264
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage gives his reason for
+accepting the New Testament, and says: "You
+"can trace it right out. Jerome and Eusebius in the
+"first century, and Origen in the second century,
+"gave lists of the writers of the New Testament.
+"These lists correspond with our list of the writers
+"of the New Testament, showing that precisely as
+"we have it, they had it in the third and fourth cen-
+"turies. Where did they get it? From Irenæus.
+"Where did he get it? From Polycarp. Where did
+"Polycarp get it? From Saint John, who was a per-
+"sonal associate of Jesus. The line is just as clear
+"as anything ever was clear." How do you under-
+stand this matter, and has Mr. Talmage stated the
+facts?
+
+_Answer_. Let us examine first the witnesses pro-
+duced by Mr. Talmage. We will also call attention
+to the great principle laid down by Mr. Talmage for
+the examination of evidence,--that where a witness
+is found false in one particular, his entire testimony
+must be thrown away.
+
+Eusebius was born somewhere about two hundred
+and seventy years after Christ. After many vicissi-
+tudes he became, it is said, the friend of Constantine.
+He made an oration in which he extolled the virtues
+
+265
+
+of this murderer, and had the honor of sitting at the
+right hand of the man who had shed the blood of his
+wife and son. In the great controversy with regard
+to the position that Christ should occupy in the Trinity,
+he sided with Arius, "and lent himself to the perse-
+"cution of the orthodox with Athanasius." He in-
+sisted that Jesus Christ was not the same as God,
+and that he was not of equal power and glory. Will
+Mr. Talmage admit that his witness told the truth in
+this? "He would not even call the Son co-eternal
+"with God."
+
+Eusebius must have been an exceedingly truthful
+man. He declared that the tracks of Pharaoh's chariots
+were in his day visible upon the shores of the Red
+Sea; that these tracks had been through all the years
+miraculously preserved from the action of wind and
+wave, as a supernatural testimony to the fact that
+God miraculously overwhelmed Pharaoh and his
+hosts.
+
+Eusebius also relates that when Joseph and Mary
+arrived in Eygpt they took up their abode in Hermopolis,
+
+a city of Thebæus, in which was the superb
+temple of Serapis. When Joseph and Mary entered
+the temple, not only the great idol, but all the lesser
+idols fell down before him.
+
+266
+
+"It is believed by the learned Dr. Lardner, that
+"Eusebius was the one guilty of the forgery in the
+"passage found in Josephus concerning Christ. Un-
+"blushing falsehoods and literary forgeries of the
+"vilest character darkened the pages of his historical
+"writings." (Waites History.)
+
+From the same authority I learn that Eusebius
+invented an eclipse, and some earthquakes, to agree
+with the account of the crucifixion. It is also be-
+lieved that Eusebius quoted from works that never
+existed, and that he pretended a work had been
+written by Porphyry, entitled: "The Philosophy of
+"Oracles," and then quoted from it for the purpose
+of proving the truth of the Christian religion.
+
+The fact is, Eusebius was utterly destitute of truth.
+He believed, as many still believe, that he could
+please God by the fabrication of lies.
+
+Irenæus lived somewhere about the end of the
+second century. "Very little is known of his early
+"history, and the accounts given in various biogra-
+"phies are for the most part conjectural." The
+writings of Irenæus are known to us principally
+through Eusebius, and we know the value of his
+testimony.
+
+Now, if we are to take the testimony of Irenæus,
+
+267
+
+why not take it? He says that the ministry of Christ
+lasted for twenty years, and that Christ was fifty years
+old at the time of his crucifixion. He also insisted
+that the "Gospel of Paul" was written by Luke, "a
+"statement made to give sanction to the gospel of
+"Luke."
+
+Irenæus insisted that there were four gospels, that
+there must be, and "he speaks frequently of these
+"gospels, and argues that they should be four in
+"number, neither more nor less, because there are
+"four universal winds, and four quarters of the
+"world;" and he might have added: because
+donkeys have four legs.
+
+These facts can be found in "The History of the
+"Christian Religion to A. D. 200," by Charles B.
+Waite,--a book that Mr. Talmage ought to read.
+
+According to Mr. Waite, Irenæus, in the thirty-
+third chapter of his fifth book, _Adversus Hæreses_,
+cites from Papias the following sayings of Christ:
+"The days will come in which vines shall grow
+"which shall have ten thousand branches, and on
+"each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each twig
+"ten thousand shoots, and in each shoot ten thousand
+"clusters, and in every one of the clusters ten
+"thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed
+
+268
+
+"will give five and twenty metrets of wine." Also
+that "one thousand million pounds of clear, pure, fine
+"flour will be produced from one grain of wheat."
+Irenæus adds that "these things were borne witness
+"to by Papias the hearer of John and the companion
+"of Polycarp."
+
+Is it possible that the eternal welfare of a human
+being depends upon believing the testimony of Poly-
+carp and Irenæus? Are people to be saved or lost
+on the reputation of Eusebius? Suppose a man is
+firmly convinced that Polycarp knew nothing about
+Saint John, and that Saint John knew nothing about
+Christ,--what then? Suppose he is convinced that
+Eusebius is utterly unworthy of credit,--what then?
+Must a man believe statements that he has every
+reason to think are false?
+
+The question arises as to the witnesses named by
+Mr. Talmage, whether they were competent to decide
+as to the truth or falsehood of the gospels. We have
+the right to inquire into their mental traits for the
+purpose of giving only due weight to what they have
+said.
+
+Mr. Bronson C. Keeler is the author of a book
+called: "A Short History of the Bible." I avail
+myself of a few of the facts he has there collected. I
+
+269
+
+find in this book, that Irenæus, Clement and Origen
+believed in the fable of the Phoenix, and insisted that
+God produced the bird on purpose to prove the
+probability of the resurrection of the body. Some
+of the early fathers believed that the hyena changed
+its sex every year. Others of them gave as a reason
+why good people should eat only animals with a
+cloven foot, the fact that righteous people lived not
+only in this world, but had expectations in the next.
+They also believed that insane people were pos-
+sessed by devils; that angels ate manna; that some
+angels loved the daughters of men and fell; that the
+pains of women in childbirth, and the fact that ser-
+pents crawl on their bellies, were proofs that the
+account of the fall, as given in Genesis, is true; that
+the stag renewed its youth by eating poisonous
+snakes; that eclipses and comets were signs of God's
+anger; that volcanoes were openings into hell; that
+demons blighted apples; that a corpse in a cemetery
+moved to make room for another corpse to be placed
+beside it. Clement of Alexandria believed that hail
+storms, tempests and plagues were caused by demons.
+He also believed, with Mr. Talmage, that the events
+in the life of Abraham were typical and prophetical
+of arithmetic and astronomy.
+
+270
+
+Origen, another of the witnesses of Mr. Talmage,
+said that the sun, moon and stars were living crea-
+tures, endowed with reason and free will, and occa-
+sionally inclined to sin. That they had free will, he
+proved by quoting from Job; that they were rational
+creatures, he inferred from the fact that they moved.
+The sun, moon and stars, according to him, were
+"subject to vanity," and he believed that they prayed
+to God through his only begotten son.
+
+These intelligent witnesses believed that the blight-
+ing of vines and fruit trees, and the disease and de-
+struction that came upon animals and men, were all
+the work of demons; but that when they had entered
+into men, the sign of the cross would drive them out.
+They derided the idea that the earth is round, and
+one of them said: "About the antipodes also, one
+"can neither hear nor speak without laughter. It is
+"asserted as something serious that we should be-
+"lieve that there are men who have their feet oppo-
+"site to ours. The ravings of Anaxagoras are more
+"tolerable, who said that snow was black."
+
+Concerning these early fathers, Professor Davidson,
+as quoted by Mr. Keeler, uses the following lan-
+guage: "Of the three fathers who contributed
+"most to the growth of the canon, Irenæus was
+
+ 271
+
+"credulous and blundering; Tertullian passionate
+"and one-sided; and Clement of Alexandria, im-
+"bued with the treasures of Greek wisdom, was
+"mainly occupied with ecclesiastical ethics. Their
+"assertions show both ignorance and exaggeration."
+These early fathers relied upon by Mr. Talmage,
+quoted from books now regarded as apocryphal--
+books that have been thrown away by the church
+and are no longer considered as of the slightest
+authority. Upon this subject I again quote Mr.
+Keeler: "Clement quoted the 'Gospel according to
+"'the Hebrews,' which is now thrown away by the
+"church; he also quoted from the Sibylline books
+"and the Pentateuch in the same sentence. Origen
+"frequently cited the Gospel of the Hebrews. Jerome
+"did the same, and Clement believed in the 'Gospel
+"'according to the Egyptians.' The Shepherd of
+"Hermas, a book in high repute in the early church,
+"and one which distinctly claims to have been
+"inspired, was quoted by Irenæus as Scripture.
+"Clement of Alexandria said it was a divine revela-
+"tion. Origen said it was divinely inspired, and
+"quoted it as Holy Scripture at the same time that
+"he cited the Psalms and Epistles of Paul. Jerome
+"quoted the 'Wisdom of Jesus, the Son of Sirach,'
+
+272
+
+"as divine Scripture. Origen quotes the 'Wisdom
+"of Solomon' as the 'Word of God' and 'the
+"'words of Christ himself.' Eusebius of Cæsarea
+"cites it as a * Divine Oracle,' and St. Chrysostom
+"used it as Scripture. So Eusebius quotes the
+"thirteenth chapter of Daniel as Scripture, but as a
+"matter of fact, Daniel has not a thirteenth chapter,--
+"the church has taken it away. Clement spoke of
+"the writer of the fourth book of Esdras as a prophet;
+"he thought Baruch as much the word of God as
+"any other book, and he quotes it as divine Scripture.
+"Clement cites Barnabas as an apostle. Origen
+"quotes from the Epistle of Barnabas, calls it 'Holy
+" 'Scripture,' and places it on a level with the Psalms
+"and the Epistles of Paul; and Clement of Alexan-
+"dria believed in the 'Epistle of Barnabas,' and the
+"'Revelation, of Peter,' and wrote comments upon
+"these holy books."
+
+Nothing can exceed the credulity of the early
+fathers, unless it may be their ignorance. They be-
+lieved everything that was miraculous. They believed
+everything except the truth. Anything that really
+happened was considered of no importance by them.
+They looked for wonders, miracles, and monstrous
+things, and--generally found them. They revelled
+
+273
+
+in the misshapen and the repulsive. They did not
+think it wrong to swear falsely in a good cause.
+They interpolated, forged, and changed the records to
+suit themselves, for the sake of Christ. They quoted
+from persons who never wrote. They misrepresented
+those who had written, and their evidence is abso-
+lutely worthless. They were ignorant, credulous,
+mendacious, fanatical, pious, unreasonable, bigoted,
+hypocritical, and for the most part, insane. Read the
+book of Revelation, and you will agree with me that
+nothing that ever emanated from a madhouse can
+more than equal it for incoherence. Most of the
+writings of the early fathers are of the same kind.
+
+As to Saint John, the real truth is, that we know
+nothing certainly of him. We do not know that he
+ever lived.
+
+We know nothing certainly of Jesus Christ. We
+know nothing of his infancy, nothing of his youth,
+and we are not sure that such a person ever existed.
+
+We know nothing of Polycarp. We do not know
+where he was born, or where, or how he died. We
+know nothing for certain about Irenæus. All the
+names quoted by Mr. Talmage as his witnesses
+are surrounded by clouds and doubts, by mist and
+darkness. We only know that many of their
+
+274
+
+statements are false, and do not know that any of
+them are true.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the following state-
+ment by Mr. Talmage: "Oh, I have to tell you that no
+"man ever died for a lie cheerfully and triumphantly"?
+
+_Answer_. There was a time when men "cheerfully
+"and triumphantly died" in defence of the doctrine
+of the "real presence" of God in the wafer and wine.
+Does Mr. Talmage believe in the doctrine of "tran-
+"substantiation"? Yet hundreds have died "cheer-
+"fully and triumphantly" for it. Men have died for
+the idea that baptism by immersion is the only
+scriptural baptism. Did they die for a lie? If not,
+is Mr. Talmage a Baptist?
+
+Giordano Bruno was an atheist, yet he perished at
+the stake rather than retract his opinions. He did
+not expect to be welcomed by angels and by God.
+He did not look for a crown of glory. He expected
+simply death and eternal extinction. Does the fact
+that he died for that belief prove its truth?
+
+Thousands upon thousands have died in defence of
+the religion of Mohammed. Was Mohammed an im-
+postor? Thousands have welcomed death in defence
+of the doctrines of Buddha. Is Buddhism true?
+
+275
+
+So I might make a tour of the world, and of all
+ages of human history, and find that millions and
+millions have died "cheerfully and triumphantly" in
+defence of their opinions. There is not the slightest
+truth in Mr. Talmage's statement.
+
+A little while ago, a man shot at the Czar of Russia.
+On the day of his execution he was asked if he
+wished religious consolation. He replied that he
+believed in no religion. What did that prove? It
+proved only the man's honesty of opinion. All the
+martyrs in the world cannot change, never did
+change, a falsehood into a truth, nor a truth into
+a falsehood. Martyrdom proves nothing but the
+sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty and mean-
+ness of his murderers. Thousands and thousands of
+people have imagined that they knew things, that
+they were certain, and have died rather than retract
+their honest beliefs.
+
+Mr. Talmage now says that he knows all about the
+Old Testament, that the prophecies were fulfilled,
+and yet he does not know when the prophecies were
+made--whether they were made before or after the
+fact. He does not know whether the destruction of
+Babylon was told before it happened, or after. He
+knows nothing upon the subject. He does not know
+
+276
+
+who made the pretended prophecies. He does not
+know that Isaiah, or Jeremiah, or Habakkuk, or
+Hosea ever lived in this world. He does not know
+who wrote a single book of the Old Testament. He
+knows nothing on the subject. He believes in the
+inspiration of the Old Testament because ancient
+cities finally fell into decay--were overrun and de-
+stroyed by enemies, and he accounts for the fact that
+the Jew does not lose his nationality by saying that
+the Old Testament is true.
+
+The Jews have been persecuted by the Christians,
+and they are still persecuted by them; and Mr. Tal-
+mage seems to think that this persecution was a part
+of Gods plan, that the Jews might, by persecution,
+be prevented from mingling with other nationalities,
+and so might stand, through the instrumentality of
+perpetual hate and cruelty, the suffering witnesses of
+the divine truth of the Bible.
+
+The Jews do not testify to the truth of the Bible,
+but to the barbarism and inhumanity of Christians--
+to the meanness and hatred of what we are pleased
+to call the "civilized world." They testify to the fact
+that nothing so hardens the human heart as religion.
+
+There is no prophecy in the Old Testament fore-
+telling the coming of Jesus Christ. There is not one
+
+277
+
+word in the Old Testament referring to him in any
+way--not one word. The only way to prove this
+is to take your Bible, and wherever you find these
+words: "That it might be fulfilled," and "which
+"was spoken," turn to the Old Testament and
+find what was written, and you will see that it had
+not the slightest possible reference to the thing re-
+counted in the New Testament--not the slightest.
+
+Let us take some of the prophecies of the Bible,
+and see how plain they are, and how beautiful they
+are. Let us see whether any human being can tell
+whether they have ever been fulfilled or not.
+
+Here is a vision of Ezekiel: "I looked, and be-
+"hold a whirlwind came out of the north, a great
+"cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness
+"was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the
+"color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also
+"out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four
+"living creatures. And this was their appearance;
+"they had the likeness of a man. And every one
+"had four faces, and every one had four wings.
+"And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of
+"their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they
+"sparkled like the color of burnished brass. And
+"they had the hands of a man under their wings on
+
+278
+
+"their four sides; and they four had their faces and
+"their wings. Their wings were joined one to
+"another; they turned not when-they went; they
+"went every one straight forward. As for the like-
+"ness of their faces, they four had the face of a man,
+"and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they
+"four had the face of an ox on the left side; they
+"four also had the face of an eagle.
+
+"Thus were their faces: and their wings were
+"stretched upward; two wings of every one were
+"joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
+"And they went every one straight forward: whither
+"the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not
+"when they went.
+
+"As for the likeness of the living creatures, their
+"appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like
+"the appearance of lamps: it went up and down
+"among the living creatures; and the fire was bright,
+"and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the
+"living creatures ran and returned as the appearance
+"of a flash of lightning.
+
+"Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one
+"wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with
+"his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and
+"their work was like unto the color of a beryl: and
+
+279
+
+"they four had one likeness: and their appearance
+"and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle
+"of a wheel. When they went, they went upon
+"their four sides: and they turned not when they
+"went. As for their rings, they were so high that
+"they were dreadful; and their rings were full of
+"eyes round about them four. And when the living
+"creatures went, the wheels went by them: and
+"when the living creatures were lifted up from the
+"earth, the wheels were lifted up. Whithersoever
+"the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their
+"spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over
+"against them: for the spirit of the living creature
+"was in the wheels. When those went, these went;
+"and when those stood, these stood; and when those
+"were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were
+"lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the
+"living creature was in the wheels. And the like-
+"ness of the firmament upon the heads of the living
+"creature was as the color of the terrible crystal,
+"stretched forth over their heads above. And under
+"the firmament were their wings straight, the one
+"toward the other; every one had two, which
+"covered on this side, and every one had two,
+"which covered on that side, their bodies."
+
+280
+
+Is such a vision a prophecy? Is it calculated
+to convey the slightest information? If so, what?
+
+So, the following vision of the prophet Daniel is
+exceedingly important and instructive:
+
+"Daniel spake and said: I saw in my vision by
+"night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven
+"strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts
+"came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
+"The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:
+"I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it
+"was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon
+"the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to
+"it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a
+"bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had
+"three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of
+"it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much
+"flesh.
+
+"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard,
+"which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl;
+"the beast had also four heads, and dominion was
+"given to it.
+
+"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold
+"a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong ex-
+"ceedingly; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured
+"and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with
+
+281
+
+"the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts
+"that were before it, and it had ten horns. I con-
+"sidered the horns, and, behold, there came up
+"among them another little horn, before whom
+"there were three of the first horns plucked up by
+"the roots: and behold, in this horn were eyes like
+"the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great
+"things."
+
+I have no doubt that this prophecy has been liter-
+ally fulfilled, but I am not at present in condition to
+give the time, place, or circumstances.
+
+A few moments ago, my attention was called to
+the following extract from _The New York Herald_ of
+the thirteenth of March, instant:
+
+"At the Fifth Avenue Baptist Church, Dr. Armi-
+"tage took as his text, 'A wheel in the middle of a
+"'wheel'--Ezekiel, i., 16. Here, said the preacher,
+"are three distinct visions in one--the living crea-
+"tures, the moving wheels and the fiery throne. We
+"have time only to stop the wheels of this mystic
+"chariot of Jehovah, that we may hold holy converse
+"with Him who rides upon the wings of the wind.
+"In this vision of the prophet we have a minute and
+"amplified account of these magnificent symbols or
+"hieroglyphics, this wondrous machinery which de-
+
+282
+
+"notes immense attributes and agencies and voli-
+"tions, passing their awful and mysterious course of
+"power and intelligence in revolution after revolu-
+"tion of the emblematical mechanism, in steady and
+"harmonious advancement to the object after which
+"they are reaching. We are compelled to look
+"upon the whole as symbolical of that tender and
+"endearing providence of which Jesus spoke when
+"He said, 'The very hairs of your head are num-
+"* bered.'"
+
+Certainly, an ordinary person, not having been
+illuminated by the spirit of prophecy, would never
+have even dreamed that there was the slightest re-
+ference in Ezekiel's vision to anything like counting
+hairs. As a commentator, the Rev. Dr. Armitage
+has no equal; and, in my judgment, no rival. He
+has placed himself beyond the reach of ridicule. It
+is impossible to say anything about his sermon as
+laughable as his sermon.
+
+_Question_. Have you no confidence in any pro-
+phecies? Do you take the ground that there never
+has been a human being who could predict the
+future?
+
+_Answer_. I admit that a man of average intelli-
+
+283
+
+gence knows that a certain course, when pursued
+long enough, will bring national disaster, and it is
+perfectly safe to predict the downfall of any and
+every country in the world. In my judgment,
+nations, like individuals, have an average life.
+Every nation is mortal. An immortal nation cannot
+be constructed of mortal individuals. A nation has
+a reason for existing, and that reason sustains the
+same relation to the nation that the acorn does to
+the oak. The nation will attain its growth--other
+things being equal. It will reach its manhood and
+its prime, but it will sink into old age, and at last
+must die. Probably, in a few thousand years, men
+will be able to calculate the average life of nations,
+as they now calculate the average life of persons.
+There has been no period since the morning of his-
+tory until now, that men did not know of dead and
+dying nations. There has always been a national
+cemetery. Poland is dead, Turkey is dying. In
+every nation are the seeds of dissolution. Not only
+nations die, but races of men. A nation is born,
+becomes powerful, luxurious, at last grows weak, is
+overcome, dies, and another takes its place, In this
+way civilization and barbarism, like day and night,
+alternate through all of history's years.
+
+284
+
+In every nation there are at least two classes of
+men: First, the enthusiastic, the patriotic, who be-
+lieve that the nation will live forever,--that its flag
+will float while the earth has air; Second, the owls
+and ravens and croakers, who are always predicting
+disaster, defeat, and death. To the last class belong
+the Jeremiahs, Ezekiels, and Isaiahs of the Jews.
+They were always predicting the downfall of Jeru-
+salem. They revelled in defeat and captivity. They
+loved to paint the horrors of famine and war. For
+the most part, they were envious, hateful, misan-
+thropic and unjust.
+
+There seems to have been a war between church
+and state. The prophets were endeavoring to pre-
+serve the ecclesiastical power. Every king who would
+listen to them, was chosen of God. He instantly
+became the model of virtue, and the prophets assured
+him that he was in the keeping of Jehovah. But if
+the king had a mind of his own, the prophets im-
+mediately called down upon him all the curses of
+heaven, and predicted the speedy destruction of his
+kingdom.
+
+If our own country should be divided, if an empire
+should rise upon the ruins of the Republic, it would
+be very easy to find that hundreds and thousands of
+
+285
+
+people had foretold that very thing. If you will read
+the political speeches of the last twenty-two years,
+you will find prophecies to fit any possible future
+state of affairs in our country. No matter what
+happens, you will find that somebody predicted it.
+If the city of London should lose her trade, if the
+Parliament house should become the abode of moles
+and bats, if "the New Zealander should sit upon the
+"ruins of London Bridge," all these things would be
+simply the fulfillment of prophecy. The fall of every
+nation under the sun has been predicted by hundreds
+and thousands of people.
+
+The prophecies of the Old Testament can be made
+to fit anything that may happen, or that may not
+happen. They will apply to the death of a king, or
+to the destruction of a people,--to the loss of com-
+merce, or the discovery of a continent. Each pro-
+phecy is a jugglery of words, of figures, of symbols,
+so put together, so used, so interpreted, that they
+can mean anything, everything, or nothing.
+
+_Question_. Do you see anything "prophetic" in
+the fate of the Jewish people themselves? Do you
+think that God made the Jewish people wanderers, so
+that they might be perpetual witnesses to the truth
+of the Scriptures?
+
+286
+
+_Answer_. I cannot believe that an infinitely good
+God would make anybody a wanderer. Neither can
+I believe that he would keep millions of people with-
+out country and without home, and allow them to be
+persecuted for thousands of years, simply that they
+might be used as witnesses. Nothing could be more
+absurdly cruel than this.
+
+The Christians justify their treatment of the Jews
+on the ground that they are simply fulfilling prophecy.
+The Jews have suffered because of the horrid story
+that their ancestors crucified the Son of God. Chris-
+tianity, coming into power, looked with horror upon
+the Jews, who denied the truth of the gospel. Each
+Jew was regarded as a dangerous witness against
+Christianity. The early Christians saw how neces-
+sary it was that the people who lived in Jerusalem
+at the time of Christ should be convinced that
+he was God, and should testify to the miracles he
+wrought. Whenever a Jew denied it, the Christian
+was filled with malignity and hatred, and immediately
+excited the prejudice of other Christians against the
+man simply because he was a Jew. They forgot, in
+their general hatred, that Mary, the mother of Christ,
+was a Jewess; that Christ himself was of Jewish
+blood; and with an inconsistency of which, of all
+
+287
+
+religions, Christianity alone could have been guilty,
+the Jew became an object of especial hatred and
+aversion.
+
+When we remember that Christianity pretends to
+be a religion of love and kindness, of charity and for-
+giveness, must not every intelligent man be shocked
+by the persecution of the Jews? Even now, in learned
+and cultivated Germany, the Jew is treated as though
+he were a wild beast. The reputation of this great
+people has been stained by a persecution spring-
+ing only from ignorance and barbarian prejudice.
+So in Russia, the Christians are anxious to shed
+every drop of Jewish blood, and thousands are to-day
+fleeing from their homes to seek a refuge from Chris-
+tian hate. And Mr. Talmage believes that all these
+persecutions are kept up by the perpetual intervention
+of God, in order that the homeless wanderers of the
+seed of Abraham may testify to the truth of the Old
+and New Testaments. He thinks that every burning
+Jewish home sheds light upon the gospel,--that
+every gash in Jewish flesh cries out in favor of the
+Bible,--that every violated Jewish maiden shows the
+interest that God still takes in the preservation of
+his Holy Word.
+
+I am endeavoring to do away with religious
+
+288
+
+prejudice. I wish to substitute humanity for super-
+stition, the love of our fellow-men, for the fear of
+God. In the place of ignorant worship, let us put
+good deeds. We should be great enough and grand
+enough to know that the rights of the Jew are pre-
+cisely the same as our own. We cannot trample
+upon their rights, without endangering our own; and
+no man who will take liberty from another, is great
+enough to enjoy liberty himself.
+
+Day by day Christians are laying the foundation
+of future persecution. In every Sunday school little
+children are taught that Jews killed the God of this
+universe. Their little hearts are filled with hatred
+against the Jewish people. They are taught as a
+part of the creed to despise the descendants of the
+only people with whom God is ever said to have had
+any conversation whatever.
+
+When we take into consideration what the Jewish
+people have suffered, it is amazing that every one of
+them does not hate with all his heart and soul and
+strength the entire Christian world. But in spite of
+the persecutions they have endured, they are to-day,
+where they are permitted to enjoy reasonable liberty,
+the most prosperous people on the globe. The idea
+that their condition shows, or tends to show, that
+
+289
+
+upon them abides the wrath of Jehovah, cannot be
+substantiated by the facts.
+
+The Jews to-day control the commerce of the
+world. They control the money of the world. It is
+for them to say whether nations shall or shall not go
+to war. They are the people of whom nations borrow
+money. To their offices kings come with their hats
+in their hands. Emperors beg them to discount their
+notes. Is all this a consequence of the wrath of
+God?
+
+We find upon our streets no Jewish beggars. It is
+a rare sight to find one of these people standing as
+a criminal before a court. They do not fill our alms-
+houses, nor our penitentiaries, nor our jails. In-
+tellectually and morally they are the equal of any
+people. They have become illustrious in every de-
+partment of art and science. The old cry against
+them is at last perceived to be ignorant. Only a few
+years ago, Christians would rob a Jew, strip him of
+his possessions, steal his money, declare him an out-
+cast, and drive him forth. Then they would point
+to him as a fulfillment of prophecy.
+
+If you wish to see the difference between some
+Jews and some Christians, compare the addresses of
+Felix Adler with the sermons of Mr. Talmage.
+
+290
+
+I cannot convince myself that an infinitely good
+and wise God holds a Jewish babe in the cradle of
+to-day responsible for the crimes of Caiaphas the
+high priest. I hardly think that an infinitely good
+being would pursue this little babe through all its life
+simply to get revenge on those who died two thou-
+sand years ago. An infinite being ought certainly to
+know that the child is not to blame; and an infinite
+being who does not know this, is not entitled to the
+love or adoration of any honest man.
+
+There is a strange inconsistency in what Mr. Tal-
+mage says. For instance, he finds great fault with
+me because I do not agree with the religious ideas
+of my father; and he finds fault equally with the
+Jews who do. The Jews who were true to the re-
+ligion of their fathers, according to Mr. Talmage,
+have been made a by-word and a hissing and a re-
+proach among all nations, and only those Jews were
+fortunate and blest who abandoned the religion of
+their fathers. The real reason for this inconsistency
+is this: Mr. Talmage really thinks that a man can
+believe as he wishes. He imagines that evidence de-
+pends simply upon volition; consequently, he holds
+every one responsible for his belief. Being satisfied
+that he has the exact truth in this matter, he meas-
+
+291
+
+ures all other people by his standard, and if they
+fail by that measurement, he holds them personally
+responsible, and believes that his God does the same.
+If Mr. Talmage had been born in Turkey, he would
+in all probability have been a Mohammedan, and
+would now be denouncing some man who had denied
+the inspiration of the Koran, as the "champion blas-
+"phemer" of Constantinople. Certainly he would
+have been, had his parents been Mohammedans;
+because, according to his doctrine, he would have
+been utterly lacking in respect and love for his father
+and mother had he failed to perpetuate their errors.
+So, had he been born in Utah, of Mormon parents,
+he would now have been a defender of polygamy.
+He would not "run the ploughshare of contempt
+"through the graves of his parents," by taking the
+ground that polygamy is wrong.
+
+I presume that all of Mr. Talmage's forefathers
+were not Presbyterians. There must have been
+a time when one of his progenitors left the faith of
+his father, and joined the Presbyterian Church. Ac-
+cording to the reasoning of Mr. Talmage, that particular
+progenitor was an exceedingly bad man; but had it
+not been for the crime of that bad man, Mr. Talmage
+might not now have been on the road to heaven.
+
+292
+
+I hardly think that all the inventors, the thinkers,
+the philosophers, the discoverers, dishonored their
+parents. Fathers and mothers have been made
+immortal by such sons. And yet these sons demon-
+strated the errors of their parents. A good father
+wishes to be excelled by his children.
+
+
+
+
+SIXTH INTERVIEW.
+
+_It is a contradiction in terms and ideas to call
+anything a revelation that comes to us at second-
+hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is
+necessarily limited to the first communication--
+after this, it is only an account of something
+which that person says was a revelation made to
+him; and though he may find himself obliged to
+believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to
+believe it in the same manner; for it was not a
+revelation made to me, and I have only his word
+for it that it was made to him.--Thomas Paine._
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the argu-
+ments presented by Mr. Talmage in favor of
+the inspiration of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that
+there are more copies of the Bible than of any
+other book, and that consequently it must be in-
+spired.
+
+It seems to me that this kind of reasoning proves
+entirely too much. If the Bible is the inspired word
+of God, it was certainly just as true when there was
+only one copy, as it is to-day; and the facts con-
+tained in it were just as true before they were
+
+296
+
+written, as afterwards. We all know that it is a fact
+in human nature, that a man can tell a falsehood so
+often that he finally believes it himself; but I never
+suspected, until now, that a mistake could be printed
+enough times to make it true.
+
+There may have been a time, and probably there
+was, when there were more copies of the Koran
+than of the Bible. When most Christians were ut-
+terly ignorant, thousands of Moors were educated;
+and it is well known that the arts and sciences
+flourished in Mohammedan countries in a far greater
+degree than in Christian. Now, at that time, it may
+be that there were more copies of the Koran than of
+the Bible. If some enterprising Mohammedan had
+only seen the force of such a fact, he might have
+established the inspiration of the Koran beyond
+a doubt; or, if it had been found by actual count that
+the Koran was a little behind, a few years of in-
+dustry spent in the multiplication of copies, might
+have furnished the evidence of its inspiration.
+
+Is it not simply amazing that a doctor of divinity,
+a Presbyterian clergyman, in this day and age, should
+seriously rely upon the number of copies of the Bible
+to substantiate the inspiration of that book? Is it
+possible to conceive of anything more fig-leaflessly
+
+297
+
+absurd? If there is anything at all in this argument,
+it is, that all books are true in proportion to the
+number of copies that exist. Of course, the same
+rule will work with newspapers; so that the news-
+paper having the largest circulation can consistently
+claim infallibility. Suppose that an exceedingly absurd
+statement should appear in _The New York Herald_,
+and some one should denounce it as utterly without
+any foundation in fact or probability; what would
+Mr. Talmage think if the editor of the Herald, as an
+evidence of the truth of the statement, should rely
+on the fact that his paper had the largest circulation
+of any in the city? One would think that the whole
+church had acted upon the theory that a falsehood re-
+peated often enough was as good as the truth.
+
+Another evidence brought forward by the reverend
+gentleman to prove the inspiration of the Scriptures,
+is the assertion that if Congress should undertake to
+pass a law to take the Bible from the people, thirty,
+millions would rise in defence of that book.
+
+This argument also seems to me to prove too much,
+and as a consequence, to prove nothing. If Con-
+gress should pass a law prohibiting the reading of
+Shakespeare, every American would rise in defence
+of his right to read the works of the greatest man
+
+298
+
+this world has known. Still, that would not even
+tend to show that Shakespeare was inspired. The
+fact is, the American people would not allow Con-
+gress to pass a law preventing them from reading
+any good book. Such action would not prove the
+book to be inspired; it would prove that the American
+people believe in liberty.
+
+There are millions of people in Turkey who would
+peril their lives in defence of the Koran. A fact like
+this does not prove the truth of the Koran; it simply
+proves what Mohammedans think of that book, and
+what they are willing to do for its preservation.
+
+It can not be too often repeated, that martyrdom
+does not prove the truth of the thing for which the
+martyr dies; it only proves the sincerity of the martyr
+and the cruelty of his murderers. No matter how
+many people regard the Bible as inspired,--that fact
+furnishes no evidence that it is inspired. Just as many
+people have regarded other books as inspired; just as
+many millions have been deluded about the inspiration
+of books ages and ages before Christianity was born.
+
+The simple belief of one man, or of millions of men,
+is no evidence to another. Evidence must be based,
+not upon the belief of other people, but upon facts.
+A believer may state the facts upon which his belief
+
+299
+
+is founded, and the person to whom he states them
+gives them the weight that according to the con-
+struction and constitution of his mind he must. But
+simple, bare belief is not testimony. We should build
+upon facts, not upon beliefs of others, nor upon the
+shifting sands of public opinion. So much for this
+argument.
+
+The next point made by the reverend gentleman
+is, that an infidel cannot be elected to any office in
+the United States, in any county, precinct, or ward.
+
+For the sake of the argument, let us admit that this
+is true. What does it prove? There was a time
+when no Protestant could have been elected to any
+office. What did that prove? There was a time
+when no Presbyterian could have been chosen to fill
+any public station. What did that prove? The
+same may be said of the members of each religious
+denomination. What does that prove?
+
+Mr. Talmage says that Christianity must be true,
+because an infidel cannot be elected to office. Now,
+suppose that enough infidels should happen to settle
+in one precinct to elect one of their own number to
+office; would that prove that Christianity was not
+true in that precinct? There was a time when no
+man could have been elected to any office, who in-
+
+300
+
+sisted on the rotundity of the earth; what did that
+prove? There was a time when no man who denied
+the existence of witches, wizards, spooks and devils,
+could hold any position of honor; what did that
+prove? There was a time when an abolitionist could
+not be elected to office in any State in this Union;
+what did that prove? There was a time when they
+were not allowed to express their honest thoughts;
+what does that prove? There was a time when a
+Quaker could not have been elected to any office;
+there was a time in the history of this country when
+but few of them were allowed to live; what does
+that prove? Is it necessary, in order to ascertain the
+truth of Christianity, to look over the election re-
+turns? Is "inspiration" a question to be settled by
+the ballot? I admit that it was once, in the first
+place, settled that way. I admit that books were
+voted in and voted out, and that the Bible was finally
+formed in accordance with a vote; but does Mr.
+Talmage insist that the question is not still open?
+Does he not know, that a fact cannot by any possi-
+bility be affected by opinion? We make laws for
+the whole people, by the whole people. We agree
+that a majority shall rule, but nobody ever pretended
+that a question of taste could be settled by an appeal
+
+301
+
+to majorities, or that a question of logic could be
+affected by numbers. In the world of thought, each
+man is an absolute monarch, each brain is a king-
+dom, that cannot be invaded even by the tyranny of
+majorities.
+
+No man can avoid the intellectual responsibility of
+deciding for himself.
+
+Suppose that the Christian religion had been put
+to vote in Jerusalem? Suppose that the doctrine of
+the "fall" had been settled in Athens, by an appeal
+to the people, would Mr. Talmage have been willing
+to abide by their decision? If he settles the inspira-
+tion of the Bible by a popular vote, he must settle the
+meaning of the Bible by the same means. There are
+more Methodists than Presbyterians--why does the
+gentleman remain a Presbyterian? There are more
+Buddhists than Christians--why does he vote against
+majorities? He will remember that Christianity was
+once settled by a popular vote--that the divinity of
+Christ was submitted to the people, and the people
+said: "Crucify him!"
+
+The next, and about the strongest, argument Mr.
+Talmage makes is, that I am an infidel because I was
+defeated for Governor of Illinois.
+
+When put in plain English, his statement is this:
+
+302
+
+that I was defeated because I was an infidel, and that
+I am an infidel because I was defeated. This, I be-
+lieve, is called reasoning in a circle. The truth is,
+that a good many people did object to me because I
+was an infidel, and the probability is, that if I had
+denied being an infidel, I might have obtained an
+office. The wonderful part is, that any Christian
+should deride me because I preferred honor to po-
+litical success. He who dishonors himself for the
+sake of being honored by others, will find that two
+mistakes have been made--one by himself, and the
+other, by the people.
+
+I presume that Mr.Talmage really thinks that I was
+extremely foolish to avow my real opinions. After
+all, men are apt to judge others somewhat by them-
+selves. According to him, I made the mistake of
+preserving my manhood and losing an office. Now,
+if I had in fact been an infidel, and had denied it, for
+the sake of position, then I admit that every Christian
+might have pointed at me the finger of contempt.
+But I was an infidel, and admitted it. Surely, I should
+not be held in contempt by Christians for having
+made the admission. I was not a believer in the
+Bible, and I said so. I was not a Christian, and I said
+so. I was not willing to receive the support of any
+
+303
+
+man under a false impression. I thought it better to
+be honestly beaten, than to dishonestly succeed.
+According to the ethics of Mr. Talmage I made a
+mistake, and this mistake is brought forward as
+another evidence of the inspiration of the Scriptures.
+If I had only been elected Governor of Illinois,--that
+is to say, if I had been a successful hypocrite, I might
+now be basking in the sunshine of this gentleman's
+respect. I preferred to tell the truth--to be an
+honest man,--and I have never regretted the course
+I pursued.
+
+There are many men now in office who, had they
+pursued a nobler course, would be private citizens.
+Nominally, they are Christians; actually, they are
+nothing; and this is the combination that generally
+insures political success.
+
+Mr. Talmage is exceedingly proud of the fact that
+Christians will not vote for infidels. In other words,
+he does not believe that in our Government the
+church has been absolutely divorced from the state.
+He believes that it is still the Christian's duty to
+make the religious test. Probably he wishes to get
+his God into the Constitution. My position is this:
+
+Religion is an individual matter--a something for
+each individual to settle for himself, and with which
+
+304
+
+no other human being has any concern, provided the
+religion of each human being allows liberty to every
+other. When called upon to vote for men to fill the
+offices of this country, I do not inquire as to the re-
+ligion of the candidates. It is none of my business.
+I ask the questions asked by Jefferson: "Is he
+"honest; is he capable?" It makes no difference to
+me, if he is willing that others should be free, what
+creed he may profess. The moment I inquire into his
+religious belief, I found a little inquisition of my own;
+I repeat, in a small way, the errors of the past, and
+reproduce, in so far as I am capable, the infamy of
+the ignorant orthodox years.
+
+Mr. Talmage will accept my thanks for his frankness.
+I now know what controls a Presbyterian when he
+casts his vote. He cares nothing for the capacity,
+nothing for the fitness, of the candidate to discharge
+the duties of the office to which he aspires; he
+simply asks: Is he a Presbyterian, is he a Protestant,
+does he believe our creed? and then, no matter how
+ignorant he may be, how utterly unfit, he receives the
+Presbyterian vote. According to Mr. Talmage, he
+would vote for a Catholic who, if he had the power,
+would destroy all liberty of conscience, rather than
+vote for an infidel who, had he the power, would
+
+305
+
+destroy all the religious tyranny of the world, and
+allow every human being to think for himself, and
+to worship God, or not, as and how he pleased.
+
+Mr. Talmage makes the serious mistake of placing
+the Bible above the laws and Constitution of his
+country. He places Jehovah above humanity. Such
+men are not entirely safe citizens of any republic.
+And yet, I am in favor of giving to such men all the
+liberty I ask for myself, trusting to education and the
+spirit of progress to overcome any injury they may
+do, or seek to do.
+
+When this country was founded, when the Con-
+stitution was adopted, the churches agreed to let the
+State alone. They agreed that all citizens should have
+equal civil rights. Nothing could be more dangerous
+to the existence of this Republic than to introduce
+religion into politics. The American theory is, that
+governments are founded, not by gods, but by men,
+and that the right to govern does not come from
+God, but "from the consent of the governed." Our
+fathers concluded that the people were sufficiently
+intelligent to take care of themselves--to make good
+laws and to execute them. Prior to that time, all
+authority was supposed to come from the clouds.
+Kings were set upon thrones by God, and it was the
+
+306
+
+business of the people simply to submit. In all really
+civilized countries, that doctrine has been abandoned.
+The source of political power is here, not in heaven.
+We are willing that those in heaven should control
+affairs there; we are willing that the angels should
+have a government to suit themselves; but while we
+live here, and while our interests are upon this earth,
+we propose to make and execute our own laws.
+
+If the doctrine of Mr. Talmage is the true doctrine,
+if no man should be voted for unless he is a Christian,
+then no man should vote unless he is a Christian. It
+will not do to say that sinners may vote, that an infidel
+may be the repository of political power, but must not
+be voted for. A decent Christian who is not willing
+that an infidel should be elected to an office, would
+not be willing to be elected to an office by infidel
+votes. If infidels are too bad to be voted for, they
+are certainly not good enough to vote, and no
+Christian should be willing to represent such an
+infamous constituency.
+
+If the political theory of Mr. Talmage is carried
+out, of course the question will arise in a little while,
+What is a Christian? It will then be necessary to
+write a creed to be subscribed by every person before
+he is fit to vote or to be voted for. This of course
+
+307
+
+must be done by the State, and must be settled,
+under our form of government, by a majority vote.
+Is Mr. Talmage willing that the question, What is
+Christianity? should be so settled? Will he pledge
+himself in advance to subscribe to such a creed? Of
+course he will not. He will insist that he has the
+right to read the Bible for himself, and that he must
+be bound by his own conscience. In this he would
+be right. If he has the right to read the Bible for
+himself, so have I. If he is to be bound by his con-
+science, so am I. If he honestly believes the Bible to
+be true, he must say so, in order to preserve his man-
+hood; and if I honestly believe it to be uninspired,--
+filled with mistakes,--I must say so, or lose my man-
+hood. How infamous I would be should I endeavor
+to deprive him of his vote, or of his right to be voted
+for, because he had been true to his conscience! And
+how infamous he is to try to deprive me of the right
+to vote, or to be voted for, because I am true to my
+conscience!
+
+When we were engaged in civil war, did Mr. Tal-
+mage object to any man's enlisting in the ranks who
+was not a Christian? Was he willing, at that time,
+that sinners should vote to keep our flag in heaven?
+Was he willing that the "unconverted" should cover
+
+308
+
+the fields of victory with their corpses, that this nation
+might not die? At the same time, Mr. Talmage
+knew that every "unconverted" soldier killed, went
+down to eternal fire. Does Mr. Talmage believe that
+it is the duty of a man to fight for a government in
+which he has no rights? Is the man who shoulders
+his musket in the defence of human freedom good
+enough to cast a ballot? There is in the heart of this
+priest the safne hatred of real liberty that drew the
+sword of persecution, that built dungeons, that forged
+chains and made instruments of torture.
+
+Nobody, with the exception of priests, would be
+willing to trust the liberties of this country in the
+hands of any church. In order to show the political
+estimation in which the clergy are held, in order to
+show the confidence the people at large have in the
+sincerity and wisdom of the clergy, it is sufficient to
+state, that no priest, no bishop, could by any possi-
+bility be elected President of the United States. No
+party could carry that load. A fear would fall upon
+the mind and heart of every honest man that this
+country was about to drift back to the Middle Ages,
+and that the old battles were to be refought. If the
+bishop running for President was of the Methodist
+Church, every other church would oppose him. If
+
+309
+
+he was a Catholic, the Protestants would as a body
+combine against him. Why? The churches have
+no confidence in each other. Why? Because they
+are acquainted with each other.
+
+As a matter of fact, the infidel has a thousand
+times more reason to vote against the Christian,
+than the Christian has to vote against the infidel.
+The Christian believes in a book superior to the
+Constitution--superior to all Constitutions and all
+laws. The infidel believes that the Constitution and
+laws are superior to any book. He is not controlled
+by any power beyond the seas or above the clouds.
+He does not receive his orders from Rome, or Sinai.
+He receives them from his fellow-citizens, legally and
+constitutionally expressed. The Christian believes in
+a power greater than man, to which, upon the peril
+of eternal pain, he must bow. His allegiance, to say
+the best of it, is divided. The Christian puts the for-
+tune of his own soul over and above the temporal
+welfare of the entire world; the infidel puts the good
+of mankind here and now, beyond and over all.
+
+There was a time in New England when only
+church members were allowed to vote, and it may be
+instructive to state the fact that during that time
+Quakers were hanged, women were stripped, tied to
+
+310
+
+carts, and whipped from town to town, and their
+babes sold into slavery, or exchanged for rum. Now
+in that same country, thousands and thousands of
+infidels vote, and yet the laws are nearer just, women
+are not whipped and children are not sold.
+
+If all the convicts in all the penitentiaries of the
+United States could be transported to some island in
+the sea, and there allowed to make a government for
+themselves, they would pass better laws than John
+Calvin did in Geneva. They would have clearer and
+better views of the rights of men, than unconvicted
+Christians used to have. I do not say that these
+convicts are better people, but I do say that, in my
+judgment, they would make better laws. They cer-
+tainly could not make worse.
+
+If these convicts were taken from the prisons of
+the United States, they would not dream of uniting
+church and state. They would have no religious
+test. They would allow every man to vote and to be
+voted for, no matter what his religious views might
+be. They would not dream of whipping Quakers, of
+burning Unitarians, of imprisoning or burning Uni-
+versalists or infidels. They would allow all the people
+to guess for themselves. Some of these convicts, of
+course, would believe in the old ideas, and would
+insist upon the suppression of free thought. Those
+coming from Delaware would probably repeat with
+great gusto the opinions of Justice Comegys, and
+insist that the whipping-post was the handmaid of
+Christianity.
+
+It would be hard to conceive of a much worse
+government than that founded by the Puritans.
+They took the Bible for the foundation of their
+political structure. They copied the laws given to
+Moses from Sinai, and the result was one of the
+worst governments that ever disgraced this world.
+They believed the Old Testament to be inspired.
+They believed that Jehovah made laws for all people
+and for all time. They had not learned the hypoc-
+risy that believes and avoids. They did not say:
+This law was once just, but is now unjust; it was
+once good, but now it is infamous; it was given by
+God once, but now it can only be obeyed by the
+devil. They had not reached the height of biblical
+exegesis on which we find the modern theologian
+perched, and who tells us that Jehovah has reformed.
+The Puritans were consistent. They did what people
+must do who honestly believe in the inspiration of
+the Old Testament. If God gave laws from Sinai
+what right have we to repeal them?
+
+312
+
+As people have gained confidence in each other,
+they have lost confidence in the sacred Scriptures.
+We know now that the Bible can not be used as the
+foundation of government. It is capable of too many
+meanings. Nobody can find out exactly what it
+upholds, what it permits, what it denounces, what it
+denies. These things depend upon what part you
+read. If it is all true, it upholds everything bad and
+denounces everything good, and it also denounces
+the bad and upholds the good. Then there are
+passages where the good is denounced and the bad
+commanded; so that any one can go to the Bible
+and find some text, some passage, to uphold anything
+he may desire. If he wishes to enslave his fellow-
+men, he will find hundreds of passages in his favor.
+If he wishes to be a polygamist, he can find his
+authority there. If he wishes to make war, to exter-
+minate his neighbors, there his warrant can be found.
+If, on the other hand, he is oppressed himself, and
+wishes to make war upon his king, he can find a
+battle-cry. And if the king wishes to put him down,
+he can find text for text on the other side. So, too,
+upon all questions of reform. The teetotaler goes
+there to get his verse, and the moderate drinker
+finds within the sacred lids his best excuse.
+
+313
+
+Most intelligent people are now convinced that the
+bible is not a guide; that in reading it you must
+exercise your reason; that you can neither safely
+reject nor accept all; that he who takes one passage
+for a staff, trips upon another; that while one text is
+a light, another blows it out; that it is such a ming-
+ling of rocks and quicksands, such a labyrinth of
+clews and snares--so few flowers among so many
+nettles and thorns, that it misleads rather than di-
+rects, and taken altogether, is a hindrance and not
+a help.
+
+Another important point made by Mr. Talmage is,
+that if the Bible is thrown away, we will have nothing
+left to swear witnesses on, and that consequently the
+administration of justice will become impossible.
+
+There was a time when the Bible did not exist, and
+if Mr. Talmage is correct, of course justice was im-
+possible then, and truth must have been a stranger
+to human lips. How can we depend upon the testi-
+mony of those who wrote the Bible, as there was no
+Bible in existence while they were writing, and con-
+sequently there was no way to take their testimony,
+and we have no account of their having been sworn
+on the Bible after they got it finished. It is extremely
+sad to think that all the nations of antiquity were left
+
+314
+
+entirely without the means of eliciting truth. No
+wonder that Justice was painted blindfolded.
+
+What perfect fetichism it is, to imagine that a man
+will tell the truth simply because he has kissed an
+old piece of sheepskin stained with the saliva of all
+classes. A farce of this kind adds nothing to the
+testimony of an honest man; it simply allows a rogue
+to give weight to his false testimony. This is really
+the only result that can be accomplished by kissing
+the Bible. A desperate villain, for the purpose of
+getting revenge, or making money, will gladly go
+through the ceremony, and ignorant juries and su-
+perstitious judges will be imposed upon. The whole
+system of oaths is false, and does harm instead of
+good. Let every man walk into court and tell his
+story, and let the truth of the story be judged by its
+reasonableness, taking into consideration the charac-
+ter of the witness, the interest he has, and the posi-
+tion he occupies in the controversy, and then let it
+be the business of the jury to ascertain the real truth
+--to throw away the unreasonable and the impossi-
+ble, and make up their verdict only upon what they
+believe to be reasonable and true. An honest man
+does not need the oath, and a rascal uses it simply
+to accomplish his purpose. If the history of courts
+
+315
+
+proved that every man, after kissing the Bible, told
+the truth, and that those who failed to kiss it some-
+times lied, I should be in favor of swearing all people
+on the Bible; but the experience of every lawyer is,
+that kissing the Bible is not always the preface of a
+true story. It is often the ceremonial embroidery
+of a falsehood.
+
+If there is an infinite God who attends to the
+affairs of men, it seems to me almost a sacrilege to
+publicly appeal to him in every petty trial. If one
+will go into any court, and notice the manner in
+which oaths are administered,--the utter lack of
+solemnity--the matter-of-course air with which the
+whole thing is done, he will be convinced that it is a
+form of no importance. Mr. Talmage would probably
+agree with the judge of whom the following story is
+told:
+
+A witness was being sworn. The judge noticed
+that he was not holding up his hand. He said to the
+clerk: "Let the witness hold up his right hand."
+"His right arm was shot off," replied the clerk. "Let
+"him hold up his left, then." "That was shot off, too,
+"your honor." "Well, then, let him raise one foot;
+"no man can be sworn in this court without holding
+"something up."
+
+
+My own opinion is, that if every copy of the Bible
+in the world were destroyed, there would be some
+way to ascertain the truth in judicial proceedings;
+and any other book would do just as well to swear
+witnesses upon, or a block in the shape of a book
+covered with some kind of calfskin could do equally
+well, or just the calfskin would do. Nothing is more
+laughable than the performance of this ceremony,
+and I have never seen in court one calf kissing the
+skin of another, that I did not feel humiliated that
+such things were done in the name of Justice.
+
+Mr. Talmage has still another argument in favor
+of the preservation of the Bible. He wants to
+know what book could take its place on the centre-
+table.
+
+I admit that there is much force in this. Suppose
+we all admitted the Bible to be an uninspired book,
+it could still be kept on the centre-table. It would
+be just as true then as it is now. Inspiration can not
+add anything to a fact; neither can inspiration make
+the immoral moral, the unjust just, or the cruel merci-
+ful. If it is a fact that God established human slavery,
+that does not prove slavery to be right; it simply
+shows that God was wrong. If I have the right to
+use my reason in determining whether the Bible is
+
+317
+
+inspired or not, and if in accordance with my reason
+I conclude that it is inspired, I have still the right to
+use my reason in determining whether the command-
+ments of God are good or bad. Now, suppose we
+take from the Bible every word upholding slavery,
+every passage in favor of polygamy, every verse
+commanding soldiers to kill women and children, it
+would be just as fit for the centre-table as now. Sup-
+pose every impure word was taken from it; suppose
+that the history of Tamar was left out, the biography
+of Lot, and all other barbarous accounts of a barbarous
+people, it would look just as well upon the centre-
+table as now.
+
+Suppose that we should become convinced that
+the writers of the New Testament were mistaken as
+to the eternity of punishment, or that all the passages
+now relied upon to prove the existence of perdition
+were shown to be interpolations, and were thereupon
+expunged, would not the book be dearer still to
+every human being with a heart? I would like to
+see every good passage in the Bible preserved. I
+would like to see, with all these passages from the
+Bible, the loftiest sentiments from all other books
+that have ever been uttered by men in all ages and
+of all races, bound in one volume, and to see that
+
+318
+
+volume, filled with the greatest, the purest and the
+best, become the household book.
+
+The average Bible, on the average centre-table, is
+about as much used as though it were a solid block.
+It is scarcely ever opened, and people who see its
+covers every day are unfamiliar with its every page.
+
+I admit that some things have happened some-
+what hard to explain, and tending to show that the
+Bible is no ordinary book. I heard a story, not long
+ago, bearing upon this very subject.
+
+A man was a member of the church, but after a
+time, having had bad luck in business affairs, became
+somewhat discouraged. Not feeling able to con-
+tribute his share to the support of the church, he
+ceased going to meeting, and finally became an
+average sinner. His bad luck pursued him until he
+found himself and his family without even a crust to
+eat. At this point, his wife told him that she be-
+lieved they were suffering from a visitation of God,
+and begged him to restore family worship, and see if
+God would not do something for them. Feeling that
+he could not possibly make matters worse, he took
+the Bible from its resting place on a shelf where
+it had quietly slumbered and collected the dust of
+many months, and gathered his family about him.
+
+319
+
+He opened the sacred volume, and to his utter as-
+tonishment, there, between the divine leaves, was a
+ten-dollar bill. He immediately dropped on his
+knees. His wife dropped on hers, and the children on
+theirs, and with streaming eyes they returned thanks
+to God. He rushed to the butcher's and bought
+some steak, to the baker's and bought some bread,
+to the grocer's and got some eggs and butter and tea,
+and joyfully hastened home. The supper was cooked,
+it was on the table, grace was said, and every face
+was radiant with joy. Just at that happy moment a
+knock was heard, the door was opened, and a police-
+man entered and arrested the father for passing
+counterfeit money.
+
+Mr. Talmage is also convinced that the Bible is
+inspired and should be preserved because there is no
+other book that à mother could give her son as he
+leaves the old home to make his way in the world.
+
+Thousands and thousands of mothers have pre-
+sented their sons with Bibles without knowing really
+what the book contains. They simply followed the
+custom, and the sons as a rule honored the Bible, not
+because they knew anything of it, but because it was
+a gift from mother. But surely, if all the passages
+upholding polygamy were out, the mother would give
+
+320
+
+the book to her son just as readily, and he would re-
+ceive it just as joyfully. If there were not one word
+in it tending to degrade the mother, the gift would cer-
+tainly be as appropriate. The fact that mothers have
+presented Bibles to their sons does not prove that the
+book is inspired. The most that can be proved by
+this fact is that the mothers believed it to be inspired.
+It does not even tend to show what the book is,
+neither does it tend to establish the truth of one
+miracle recorded upon its pages. We cannot believe
+that fire refused to burn, simply because the state-
+ment happens to be in a book presented to a son by
+his mother, and if all the mothers of the entire world
+should give Bibles to all their children, this would not
+prove that it was once right to murder mothers, or to
+enslave mothers, or to sell their babes.
+
+The inspiration of the Bible is not a question of
+natural affection. It can not be decided by the love
+a mother bears her son. It is a question of fact, to
+be substantiated like other facts. If the Turkish
+mother should give a copy of the Koran to her
+son, I would still have my doubts about the in-
+spiration of that book; and if some Turkish soldier
+saved his life by having in his pocket a copy of
+the Koran that accidentally stopped a bullet just
+
+321
+
+opposite his heart, I should still deny that Mohammed
+was a prophet of God.
+
+Nothing can be more childish than to ascribe
+mysterious powers to inanimate objects. To imagine
+that old rags made into pulp, manufactured into
+paper, covered with words, and bound with the skin
+of a calf or a sheep, can have any virtues when thus
+put together that did not belong to the articles out
+of which the book was constructed, is of course
+infinitely absurd.
+
+In the days of slavery, negroes used to buy dried
+roots of other negroes, and put these roots in their
+pockets, so that a whipping would not give them
+pain. Kings have bought diamonds to give them
+luck. Crosses and scapularies are still worn for the
+purpose of affecting the inevitable march of events.
+People still imagine that a verse in the Bible can step
+in between a cause and its effect; really believe that
+an amulet, a charm, the bone of some saint, a piece
+of a cross, a little image of the Virgin, a picture of a
+priest, will affect the weather, will delay frost, will
+prevent disease, will insure safety at sea, and in some
+cases prevent hanging. The banditti of Italy have
+great confidence in these things, and whenever they
+start upon an expedition of theft and plunder, they
+
+322
+
+take images and pictures of saints with them, such
+as have been blest by a priest or pope. They pray
+sincerely to the Virgin, to give them luck, and see not
+the slightest inconsistency in appealing to all the
+saints in the calendar to assist them in robbing honest
+people.
+
+Edmund About tells a story that illustrates the belief
+of the modern Italian. A young man was gambling.
+Fortune was against him. In the room was a little
+picture representing the Virgin and her child. Before
+this picture he crossed himself, and asked the assist-
+ance of the child. Again he put down his money
+and again lost. Returning to the picture, he told the
+child that he had lost all but one piece, that he was
+about to hazard that, and made a very urgent request
+that he would favor him with divine assistance. He
+put down the last piece. He lost. Going to the
+picture and shaking his fist at the child, he cried out:
+"Miserable bambino, I am glad they crucified you!"
+
+The confidence that one has in an image, in a relic,
+in a book, comes from the same source,--fetichism.
+To ascribe supernatural virtues to the skin of a snake,
+to a picture, or to a bound volume, is intellectually
+the same.
+
+Mr. Talmage has still another argument in favor
+
+323
+
+of the inspiration of the Scriptures. He takes the
+ground that the Bible must be inspired, because so
+many people believe it.
+
+Mr. Talmage should remember that a scientific
+fact does not depend upon the vote of numbers;--
+it depends simply upon demonstration; it depends
+upon intelligence and investigation, not upon an
+ignorant multitude; it appeals to the highest, in-
+stead of to the lowest. Nothing can be settled
+by popular prejudice.
+
+According to Mr. Talmage, there are about three
+hundred million Christians in the world. Is this true?
+In all countries claiming to be Christian--including
+all of civilized Europe, Russia in Asia, and every
+country on the Western hemisphere, we have nearly
+four hundred millions of people. Mr. Talmage claims
+that three hundred millions are Christians. I sup-
+pose he means by this, that if all should perish to-
+night, about three hundred millions would wake up
+in heaven--having lived and died good and consist-
+ent Christians.
+
+There are in Russia about eighty millions of people
+--how many Christians? I admit that they have re-
+cently given more evidence of orthodox Christianity
+than formerly. They have been murdering old men;
+
+324
+
+they have thrust daggers into the breasts of women;
+they have violated maidens--because they were Jews.
+Thousands and thousands are sent each year to the
+mines of Siberia, by the Christian government of
+Russia. Girls eighteen years of age, for having ex-
+pressed a word in favor of human liberty, are to-day
+working like beasts of burden, with chains upon
+their limbs and with the marks of whips upon
+their backs. Russia, of course, is considered by Mr.
+Talmage as a Christian country--a country utterly
+destitute of liberty--without freedom of the press,
+without freedom of speech, where every mouth is
+locked and every tongue a prisoner--a country filled
+with victims, soldiers, spies, thieves and executioners.
+What would Russia be, in the opinion of Mr. Tal-
+mage, but for Christianity? How could it be worse,
+when assassins are among the best people in it?
+The truth is, that the people in Russia, to-day, who
+are in favor of human liberty, are not Christians.
+The men willing to sacrifice their lives for the good
+of others, are not believers in the Christian religion.
+The men who wish to break chains are infidels;
+the men who make chains are Christians. Every
+good and sincere Catholic of the Greek Church
+is a bad citizen, an enemy of progress, a foe of
+
+325
+
+human liberty. Yet Mr. Talmage regards Russia
+as a Christian country.
+
+The sixteen millions of people in Spain are claimed
+as Christians. Spain, that for centuries was the as-
+sassin of human rights; Spain, that endeavored to
+spread Christianity by flame and fagot; Spain, the
+soil where the Inquisition flourished, where bigotry
+grew, and where cruelty was worship,--where
+murder was prayer. I admit that Spain is a Chris-
+tian nation. I admit that infidelity has gained no
+foothold beyond the Pyrenees. The Spaniards are
+orthodox. They believe in the inspiration of the
+Old and New Testaments. They have no doubts
+about miracles--no doubts about heaven, no doubts
+about hell. I admit that the priests, the highway-
+men, the bishops and thieves, are equally true be-
+lievers. The man who takes your purse on the
+highway, and the priest who forgives the robber,
+are alike orthodox.
+
+It gives me pleasure, however, to say that even in
+Spain there is a dawn. Some great men, some men
+of genius, are protesting against the tyranny of Cath-
+olicism. Some men have lost confidence in the
+cathedral, and are beginningto ask the State to erect
+the schoolhouse. They are beginning to suspect
+
+326
+
+that priests are for the most part impostors and
+plunderers.
+
+According to Mr. Talmage, the twenty-eight mil-
+lions in Italy are Christians. There the Christian
+Church was early established, and the popes are to-
+day the successors of St. Peter. For hundreds and
+hundreds of years, Italy was the beggar of the world,
+and to her, from every land, flowed streams of gold
+and silver. The country was covered with convents,
+and monasteries, and churches, and cathedrals filled
+with monks and nuns. Its roads were crowded with
+pilgrims, and its dust was on the feet of the world.
+What has Christianity done for Italy--Italy, its soil a
+blessing, its sky a smile--Italy, with memories great
+enough to kindle the fires of enthusiasm in any
+human breast?
+
+Had it not been for a few Freethinkers, for a few
+infidels, for such men as Garibaldi and Mazzini, the
+heaven of Italy would still have been without a star.
+
+I admit that Italy, with its popes and bandits, with
+its superstition and ignorance, with its sanctified
+beggars, is a Christian nation; but in a little while,--
+in a few days,--when according to the prophecy of
+Garibaldi priests, with spades in their hands, will
+dig ditches to drain the Pontine marshes; in a little
+
+327
+
+while, when the pope leaves the Vatican, and seeks
+the protection of a nation he has denounced,--asking
+alms of intended victims; when the nuns shall marry,
+and the monasteries shall become factories, and the
+whirl of wheels shall take the place of drowsy prayers
+--then, and not until then, will Italy be,--not a
+Christian nation, but great, prosperous, and free.
+
+In Italy, Giordano Bruno was burned. Some day,
+his monument will rise above the cross of Rome.
+
+We have in our day one example,--and so far as I
+know, history records no other,--of the resurrection
+of a nation. Italy has been called from the grave of
+superstition. She is "the first fruits of them that
+"slept."
+
+I admit with Mr. Talmage that Portugal is a Chris-
+tian country--that she engaged for hundreds of years
+in the slave trade, and that she justified the infamous
+traffic by passages in the Old Testament. I admit,
+also, that she persecuted the Jews in accordance
+with the same divine volume. I admit that all the
+crime, ignorance, destitution, and superstition in that
+country were produced by the Catholic Church. I
+also admit that Portugal would be better if it were
+Protestant.
+
+Every Catholic is in favor of education enough to
+
+328
+
+change a barbarian into a Catholic; every Protestant
+is in favor of education enough to change a Catholic
+into a Protestant; but Protestants and Catholics alike
+are opposed to education that will lead to any
+real philosophy and science. I admit that Portugal
+is what it is, on account of the preaching of the
+gospel. I admit that Portugal can point with pride
+to the triumphs of what she calls civilization within
+her borders, and truthfully ascribe the glory to the
+church. But in a litde while, when more railroads
+are built, when telegraphs connect her people with
+the civilized world, a spirit of doubt, of investigation,
+will manifest itself in Portugal.
+
+When the people stop counting beads, and go to
+the study of mathematics; when they think more of
+plows than of prayers for agricultural purposes; when
+they find that one fact gives more light to the mind
+than a thousand tapers, and that nothing can by any
+possibility be more useless than a priest,--then Por-
+tugal will begin to cease to be what is called a
+Christian nation.
+
+I admit that Austria, with her thirty-seven millions,
+is a Christian nation--including her Croats, Hungar-
+ians, Servians, and Gypsies. Austria was one of the
+assassins of Poland. When we remember that John
+
+329
+
+Sobieski drove the Mohammedans from the gates of
+Vienna, and rescued from the hand of the "infidel"
+the beleagured city, the propriety of calling Austria a
+Christian nation becomes still more apparent. If one
+wishes to know exactly how "Christian" Austria is,
+let him read the history of Hungary, let him read
+the speeches of Kossuth. There is one good thing
+about Austria: slowly but surely she is undermining
+the church by education. Education is the enemy
+of superstition. Universal education does away with
+the classes born of the tyranny of ecclesiasticism--
+classes founded upon cunning, greed, and brute
+strength. Education also tends to do away with
+intellectual cowardice. The educated man is his
+own priest, his own pope, his own church.
+
+When cunning collects tolls from fear, the church
+prospers.
+
+Germany is another Christian nation. Bismarck is
+celebrated for his Christian virtues.
+
+Only a little while ago, Bismarck, when a bill was
+under consideration for ameliorating the condition
+of the Jews, stated publicly that Germany was a
+Christian nation, that her business was to extend
+and protect the religion of Jesus Christ, and that
+being a Christian nation, no laws should be passed
+
+330
+
+ameliorating the condition of the Jews. Certainly a
+remark like this could not have been made in any
+other than a Christian nation. There is no freedom
+of the press, there is no freedom of speech, in Ger-
+many. The Chancellor has gone so far as to declare
+that the king is not responsible to the people. Ger-
+many must be a Christian nation. The king gets his
+right to govern, not from his subjects, but from God.
+He relies upon the New Testament. He is satisfied
+that "the powers that be in Germany are ordained
+"of God." He is satisfied that treason against the
+German throne is treason against Jehovah. There
+are millions of Freethinkers in Germany. They are
+not in the majority, otherwise there would be more
+liberty in that country. Germany is not an infidel
+nation, or speech would be free, and every man
+would be allowed to express his honest thoughts.
+
+Wherever I see Liberty in chains, wherever the
+expression of opinion is a crime, I know that that
+country is not infidel; I know that the people are not
+ruled by reason. I also know that the greatest men
+of Germany--her Freethinkers, her scientists, her
+writers, her philosophers, are, for the most part, in-
+fidel. Yet Germany is called a Christian nation, and
+ought to be so called until her citizens are free.
+
+331
+
+France is also claimed as a Christian country. This
+is not entirely true. France once was thoroughly
+Catholic, completely Christian. At the time of the
+massacre of Saint Bartholomew, the French were
+Christians. Christian France made exiles of the
+Huguenots. Christian France for years and years
+was the property of the Jesuits. Christian France
+was ignorant, cruel, orthodox and infamous. When
+France was Christian, witnesses were cross-examined
+with instruments of torture.
+
+Now France is not entirely under Catholic control,
+and yet she is by far the most prosperous nation in
+Europe. I saw, only the other day, a letter from a
+Protestant bishop, in which he states that there are
+only about a million Protestants in France, and only
+four or five millions of Catholics, and admits, in a
+very melancholy way, that thirty-four or thirty-five
+millions are Freethinkers. The bishop is probably
+mistaken in his figures, but France is the best housed,
+the best fed, the best clad country in Europe.
+
+Only a little while ago, France was overrun, trampled
+into the very earth, by the victorious hosts of Ger-
+many, and France purchased her peace with the
+savings of centuries. And yet France is now rich and
+prosperous and free, and Germany poor, discontented
+
+332
+
+and enslaved. Hundreds and thousands of Germans,
+unable to find liberty at home, are coming to the
+United States.
+
+I admit that England is a Christian country. Any
+doubts upon this point can be dispelled by reading
+her history--her career in India, what she has done
+in China, her treatment of Ireland, of the American
+Colonies, her attitude during our Civil war; all these
+things show conclusively that England is a Christian
+nation.
+
+Religion has filled Great Britain with war. The
+history of the Catholics, of the Episcopalians, of
+Cromwell--all the burnings, the maimings, the brand-
+ings, the imprisonments, the confiscations, the civil
+wars, the bigotry, the crime--show conclusively that
+Great Britain has enjoyed to the full the blessings of
+"our most holy religion."
+
+Of course, Mr. Talmage claims the United States
+as a Christian country. The truth is, our country is
+not as Christian as it once was. When heretics were
+hanged in New England, when the laws of Virginia
+and Maryland provided that the tongue of any man
+who denied the doctrine of the Trinity should be
+bored with hot iron,, and that for the second offence
+he should suffer death, I admit that this country was
+
+333
+
+Christian. When we engaged in the slave trade,
+when our flag protected piracy and murder in every
+sea, there is not the slightest doubt that the United
+States was a Christian country. When we believed
+in slavery, and when we deliberately stole the labor
+of four millions of people; when we sold women
+and babes, and when the people of the North
+enacted a law by virtue of which every Northern
+man was bound to turn hound and pursue a human
+being who was endeavoring to regain his liberty, I
+admit that the United States was a Christian nation.
+I admit that all these things were upheld by the Bible
+--that the slave trader was justified by the Old Testa-
+ment, that the bloodhound was a kind of missionary
+in disguise, that the auction block was an altar, the
+slave pen a kind of church, and that the whipping-
+post was considered almost as sacred as the cross.
+At that time, our country was a Christian nation.
+
+I heard Frederick Douglass say that he lectured
+against slavery for twenty years before the doors
+of a single church were opened to him. In New
+England, hundreds of ministers were driven from
+their pulpits because they preached against the
+crime of human slavery. At that time, this country
+was a Christian nation.
+
+334
+
+Only a few years ago, any man speaking in favor
+of the rights of man, endeavoring to break a chain
+from a human limb, was in danger of being mobbed
+by the Christians of this country. I admit that Dela-
+ware is still a Christian State. I heard a story about
+that State the other day.
+
+About fifty years ago, an old Revolutionary soldier
+applied for a pension. He was asked his age, and he
+replied that he was fifty years old. He was told that
+if that was his age, he could not have been in the
+Revolutionary War, and consequently was not en-
+titled to any pension. He insisted, however, that he
+was only fifty years old. Again they told him that
+there must be some mistake. He was so wrinkled,
+so bowed, had so many marks of age, that he must
+certainly be more than fifty years old. "Well," said
+the old man, "if I must explain, I will: I lived forty
+"years in Delaware; but I never counted that time,
+"and I hope God won't."
+
+The fact is, we have grown less and less Christian
+every year from 1620 until now, and the fact is that
+we have grown more and more civilized, more and
+more charitable, nearer and nearer just.
+
+Mr. Talmage speaks as though all the people in
+what he calls the civilized world were Christians. Ad-
+
+335
+
+mitting this to be true, I find that in these countries
+millions of men are educated, trained and drilled to
+kill their fellow Christians. I find Europe covered
+with forts to protect Christians from Christians, and
+the seas filled with men-of-war for the purpose of
+ravaging the coasts and destroying the cities of Chris-
+tian nations. These countries are filled with prisons,
+with workhouses, with jails and with toiling, ignorant
+and suffering millions. I find that Christians have
+invented most of the instruments of death, that
+Christians are the greatest soldiers, fighters, de-
+stroyers. I find that every Christian country is taxed
+to its utmost to support these soldiers; that every
+Christian nation is now groaning beneath the grievous
+burden of monstrous debt, and that nearly all these
+debts were contracted in waging war. These bonds,
+these millions, these almost incalculable amounts,
+were given to pay for shot and shell, for rifle and
+torpedo, for men-of-war, for forts and arsenals, and
+all the devilish enginery of death. I find that each
+of these nations prays to God to assist it as against
+all others; and when one nation has overrun, ravaged
+and pillaged another, it immediately returns thanks
+to the Almighty, and the ravaged and pillaged kneel
+and thank God that it is no worse.
+
+336
+
+Mr. Talmage is welcome to all the evidence he can
+find in the history of what he is pleased to call the
+civilized nations of the world, tending to show the
+inspiration of the Bible.
+
+And right here it may be well enough to say again,
+that the question of inspiration can not be settled by
+the votes of the superstitious millions. It can not be
+affected by numbers. It must be decided by each
+human being for himself. If every man in this world,
+with one exception, believed the Bible to be the in-
+spired word of God, the man who was the exception
+could not lose his right to think, to investigate, and to
+judge for himself.
+
+_Question_. You do not think, then, that any of the
+arguments brought forward by Mr. Talmage for the
+purpose of establishing the inspiration of the Bible,
+are of any weight whatever?
+
+_Answer_. I do not. I do not see how it is possible
+to make poorer, weaker or better arguments than he
+has made.
+
+Of course, there can be no "evidence" of the in-
+spiration of the Scriptures. What is "inspiration"?
+Did God use the prophets simply as instruments?
+Did he put his thoughts in their minds, and use their
+
+337
+
+hands to make a record? Probably few Christians
+will agree as to what they mean by "inspiration."
+The general idea is, that the minds of the writers of
+the books of the Bible were controlled by the divine
+will in such a way that they expressed, independently
+of their own opinions, the thought of God. I believe it
+is admitted that God did not choose the exact words,
+and is not responsible for the punctuation or syntax.
+It is hard to give any reason for claiming more for
+the Bible than is claimed by those who wrote it.
+There is no claim of "inspiration" made by the writer
+of First and Second Kings. Not one word about the
+author having been "inspired" is found in the book
+of Job, or in Ruth, or in Chronicles, or in the Psalms,
+or Ecclesiastes, or in Solomon's Song, and nothing is
+said about the author of the book of Esther having
+been "inspired." Christians now say that Matthew,
+Mark, Luke and John were "inspired" to write the
+four gospels, and yet neither Mark, nor Luke, nor
+John, nor Matthew claims to have been "inspired."
+If they were "inspired," certainly they should have
+stated that fact. The very first thing stated in each
+of the gospels should have been a declaration by the
+writer that he had been "inspired," and that he was
+about to write the book under the guidance of God,
+
+338
+
+and at the conclusion of each gospel there should
+have been a solemn statement that the writer had
+put down nothing of himself, but had in all things
+followed the direction and guidance of the divine
+will. The church now endeavors to establish the
+inspiration of the Bible by force, by social ostracism,
+and by attacking the reputation of every man who
+denies or doubts. In all Christian countries, they
+begin with the child in the cradle. Each infant is
+told by its mother, by its father, or by some of its
+relatives, that "the Bible is an inspired book." This
+pretended fact, by repetition "in season and out of
+"season," is finally burned and branded into the
+brain to such a degree that the child of average
+intelligence never outgrows the conviction that the
+Bible is, in some peculiar sense, an "inspired" book.
+The question has to be settled for each generation.
+The evidence is not sufficient, and the foundation of
+Christianity is perpetually insecure. Beneath this great
+religious fabric there is no rock. For eighteen centu-
+ries, hundreds and thousands and millions of people
+have been endeavoring to establish the fact that the
+Scriptures are inspired, and since the dawn of science,
+since the first star appeared in the night of the
+Middle Ages, until this moment, the number of
+
+339
+
+people who have doubted the fact of inspiration
+has steadily increased. These doubts have not been
+born of ignorance, they have not been suggested by
+the unthinking. They have forced themselves upon
+the thoughtful, upon the educated, and now the ver-
+dict of the intellectual world is, that the Bible is not
+inspired. Notwithstanding the fact that the church
+has taken advantage of infancy, has endeavored to
+control education, has filled all primers and spelling-
+books and readers and text books with superstition--
+feeding all minds with the miraculous and super-
+natural, the growth toward a belief in the natural
+and toward the rejection of the miraculous has been
+steady and sturdy since the sixteenth century. There
+has been, too, a moral growth, until many passages
+in the Bible have become barbarous, inhuman and
+infamous. The Bible has remained the same, while
+the world has changed. In the light of physical and
+moral discovery, "the inspired volume" seems in
+many respects absurd. If the same progress is made
+in the next, as in the last, century, it is very easy to
+predict the place that will then be occupied by the
+Bible. By comparing long periods of time, it is easy
+to measure the advance of the human race. Com-
+pare the average sermon of to-day with the average
+
+340
+
+sermon of one hundred years ago. Compare what
+ministers teach to-day with the creeds they profess
+to believe, and you will see the immense distance
+that even the church has traveled in the last century.
+
+The Christians tell us that scientific men have
+made mistakes, and that there is very little certainty
+in the domain of human knowledge. This I admit.
+The man who thought the world was flat, and who
+had a way of accounting for the movement of the
+heavenly bodies, had what he was pleased to call a
+philosophy. He was, in his way, a geologist and an
+astronomer. We admit that he was mistaken; but
+if we claimed that the first geologist and the first
+astronomer were inspired, it would not do for us to
+admit that any advance had been made, or that any
+errors of theirs had been corrected. We do not
+claim that the first scientists were inspired. We do
+not claim that the last are inspired. We admit that
+all scientific men are fallible. We admit that they do
+not know everything. We insist that they know but
+little, and that even in that little which they are sup-
+posed to know, there is the possibility of error. The
+first geologist said: "The earth is flat." Suppose
+that the geologists of to-day should insist that that
+man was inspired, and then endeavor to show that
+
+341
+
+the word "flat," in the "Hebrew," did not mean
+quite flat, but just a little rounded; what would we
+think of their honesty? The first astronomer in-
+sisted that the sun and moon and stars revolved
+around this earth--that this little earth was the centre
+of the entire system. Suppose that the astronomers
+of to-day should insist that that astronomer was in-
+spired, and should try to explain, and say that he
+simply used the language of the common people, and
+when he stated that the sun and moon and stars re-
+volved around the earth, he merely meant that they
+"apparently revolved," and that the earth, in fact,
+turned over, would we consider them honest men?
+You might as well say that the first painter was in-
+spired, or that the first sculptor had the assistance of
+God, as to say that the first writer, or the first book-
+maker, was divinely inspired. It is more probable
+that the modern geologist is inspired than that the an-
+cient one was, because the modern geologist is nearer
+right. It is more probable that William Lloyd Gar-
+rison was inspired upon the question of slavery than
+that Moses was. It is more probable that the author
+of the Declaration of Independence spoke by divine
+authority than that the author of the Pentateuch did.
+In other words, if there can be any evidence of
+
+342
+
+"inspiration," it must lie in the fact of doing or
+saying the best possible thing that could have been
+done or said at that time or upon that subject.
+
+To make myself clear: The only possible evidence
+of "inspiration" would be perfection--a perfection ex-
+celling anything that man unaided had ever attained.
+An "inspired" book should excel all other books; an
+inspired statue should be the best in this world; an in-
+spired painting should be beyond all others. If the Bible
+has been improved in any particular, it was not, in that
+particular, ''inspired." If slavery is wrong, the Bible is
+not inspired. If polygamy is vile and loathsome, the
+Bible is not inspired. If wars of extermination are cruel
+and heartless, the Bible is not "inspired." If there is
+within that book a contradiction of any natural fact; if
+there is one ignorant falsehood, if there is one mistake,
+then it is not "inspired." I do not mean mistakes that
+have grown out of translations; but if there was in
+the original manuscript one mistake, then it is not
+"inspired." I do not demand a miracle; I do not
+demand a knowledge of the future; I simply demand
+an absolute knowledge of the past. I demand an ab-
+solute knowledge of the then present; I demand a
+knowledge of the constitution of the human mind--
+of the facts in nature, and that is all I demand.
+
+343
+
+_Question_. If I understand you, you think that all
+political power should come from the people; do you
+not believe in any "special providence," and do you
+take the ground that God does not interest himself
+in the affairs of nations and individuals?
+
+_Answer_. The Christian idea is that God made the
+world, and made certain laws for the government of
+matter and mind, and that he never interferes except
+upon special occasions, when the ordinary laws fail to
+work out the desired end. Their notion is, that the
+Lord now and then stops the horses simply to show
+that he is driving. It seems to me that if an infinitely
+wise being made the world, he must have made it
+the best possible; and that if he made laws for the
+government of matter and mind, he must have made
+the best possible laws. If this is true, not one of
+these laws can be violated without producing a posi-
+tive injury. It does not seem probable that infinite
+wisdom would violate a law that infinite wisdom had
+made.
+
+Most ministers insist that God now and then in-
+terferes in the affairs of this world; that he has not
+interfered as much lately as he did formerly. When
+the world was comparatively new, it required alto-
+gether more tinkering and fixing than at present.
+
+344
+
+Things are at last in a reasonably good condition,
+and consequently a great amount of interference is
+not necessary. In old times it was found necessary fre-
+quently to raise the dead, to change the nature of fire
+and water, to punish people with plagues and famine,
+to destroy cities by storms of fire and brimstone, to
+change women into salt, to cast hailstones upon
+heathen, to interfere with the movements of our
+planetary system, to stop the earth not only, but
+sometimes to make it turn the other way, to arrest
+the moon, and to make water stand up like a wall.
+Now and then, rivers were divided by striking them
+with a coat, and people were taken to heaven in
+chariots of fire. These miracles, in addition to curing
+the sick, the halt, the deaf and blind, were in former
+times found necessary, but since the "apostolic age,"
+nothing of the kind has been resorted to except in
+Catholic countries. Since the death of the last
+apostle, God has appeared only to members of the
+Catholic Church, and all modern miracles have been
+performed for the benefit of Catholicism. There is
+no authentic account of the Virgin Mary having ever
+appeared to a Protestant. The bones of Protestant
+saints have never cured a solitary disease. Protest-
+ants now say that the testimony of the Catholics can
+
+345
+
+not be relied upon, and yet, the authenticity of every
+book in the New Testament was established by Cath-
+olic testimony. Some few miracles were performed
+in Scotland, and in fact in England and the United
+States, but they were so small that they are hardly
+worth mentioning. Now and then, a man was struck
+dead for taking the name of the Lord in vain. Now
+and then, people were drowned who were found in
+boats on Sunday. Whenever anybody was about to
+commit murder, God has not interfered--the reason
+being that he gave man free-will, and expects to hold
+him accountable in another world, and there is no
+exception to this free-will doctrine, but in cases
+where men swear or violate the Sabbath. They are
+allowed to commit all other crimes without any in-
+terference on the part of the Lord.
+
+My own opinion is, that the clergy found it neces-
+sary to preserve the Sabbath for their own uses, and
+for that reason endeavored to impress the people
+with the enormity of its violation, and for that purpose
+gave instances of people being drowned and suddenly
+struck dead for working or amusing themselves on that
+day. The clergy have objected to any other places of
+amusement except their own, being opened on that
+day. They wished to compel people either to go to
+
+346
+
+church or stay at home. They have also known
+that profanity tended to do away with the feelings
+of awe they wished to cultivate, and for that reason
+they have insisted that swearing was one of the most
+terrible of crimes, exciting above all others the wrath
+of God.
+
+There was a time when people fell dead for having
+spoken disrespectfully to a priest. The priest at that
+time pretended to be the visible representative of
+God, and as such, entitled to a degree of reverence
+amounting almost to worship. Several cases are
+given in the ecclesiastical history of Scotland where
+men were deprived of speech for having spoken
+rudely to a parson.
+
+These stories were calculated to increase the im-
+portance of the clergy and to convince people that
+they were under the special care of the Deity. The
+story about the bears devouring the little children
+was told in the first place, and has been repeated
+since, simply to protect ministers from the laughter
+of children. There ought to be carved on each side
+of every pulpit a bear with fragments of children in
+its mouth, as this animal has done so much to protect
+the dignity of the clergy.
+
+Besides the protection of ministers, the drowning
+
+347
+
+of breakers of the Sabbath, and striking a few people
+dead for using profane language, I think there is no
+evidence of any providential interference in the affairs
+of this world in what may be called modern times.
+Ministers have endeavored to show that great calam-
+ities have been brought upon nations and cities as a
+punishment for the wickedness of the people. They
+have insisted that some countries have been visited
+with earthquakes because the people had failed to
+discharge their religious duties; but as earthquakes
+happened in uninhabited countries, and often at sea,
+where no one is hurt, most people have concluded
+that they are not sent as punishments. They have
+insisted that cities have been burned as a punish-
+ment, and to show the indignation of the Lord, but
+at the same time they have admitted that if the
+streets had been wider, the fire departments better
+organized, and wooden buildings fewer, the design
+of the Lord would have been frustrated.
+
+After reading the history of the world, it is some-
+what difficult to find which side the Lord is really on.
+He has allowed Catholics to overwhelm and de-
+stroy Protestants, and then he has allowed Protestants
+to overwhelm and destroy Catholics. He has allowed
+Christianity to triumph over Paganism, and he allowed
+
+348
+
+Mohammedans to drive back the hosts of the cross
+from the sepulchre of his son. It is curious that this
+God would allow the slave trade to go on, and yet
+punish the violators of the Sabbath. It is simply
+wonderful that he would allow kings to wage cruel
+and remorseless war, to sacrifice millions upon the
+altar of heartless ambition, and at the same time
+strike a man dead for taking his name in vain. It is
+wonderful that he allowed slavery to exist for centu-
+ries in the United States; that he allows polygamy
+now in Utah; that he cares nothing for liberty in
+Russia, nothing for free speech in Germany, nothing
+for the sorrows of the overworked, underpaid millions
+of the world; that he cares nothing for the innocent
+languishing in prisons, nothing for the patriots con-
+demned to death, nothing for the heart-broken
+widows and orphans, nothing for the starving, and
+yet has ample time to note a sparrow's fall. If he
+would only strike dead the would-be murderers; if
+he would only palsy the hands of husbands' uplifted
+to strike their wives; if he would render speechless
+the cursers of children, he could afford to overlook
+the swearers and breakers of his Sabbath.
+
+For one, I am not satisfied with the government
+of this world, and I am going to do what little I can
+
+349
+
+to make it better. I want more thought and less
+fear, more manhood and less superstition, less prayer
+and more help, more education, more reason, more
+intellectual hospitality, and above all, and over all,
+more liberty and kindness.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that God, if there be one,
+when he saves or damns a man, will take into con-
+sideration all the circumstances of the man's life?
+
+_Answer_. Suppose that two orphan boys, James
+and John, are given homes. James is taken into a
+Christian family and John into an infidel. James
+becomes a Christian, and dies in the faith. John be-
+comes an infidel, and dies without faith in Christ.
+According to the Christian religion, as commonly
+preached, James will go to heaven, and John to hell.
+
+Now, suppose that God knew that if James had
+been raised by the infidel family, he would have died
+an infidel, and that if John had been raised by the
+Christian family, he would have died a Christian.
+What then? Recollect that the boys did not choose
+the families in which they were placed.
+
+Suppose that a child, cast away upon an island in
+which he found plenty of food, grew to manhood;
+and suppose that after he had reached mature years,
+
+350
+
+the island was visited by a missionary who taught a
+false religion; and suppose that this islander was con-
+vinced that he ought to worship a wooden idol; and
+suppose, further, that the worship consisted in sacri-
+ficing animals; and suppose the islander, actuated
+only by what he conceived to be his duty and by
+thankfulness, sacrificed a toad every night and every
+morning upon the altar of his wooden god; that
+when the sky looked black and threatening he sacri-
+ficed two toads; that when feeling unwell he sacrificed
+three; and suppose that in all this he was honest, that
+he really believed that the shedding of toad-blood
+would soften the heart of his god toward him? And
+suppose that after he had become fully-convinced
+of the truth of his religion, a missionary of the
+"true religion" should visit the island, and tell the
+history of the Jews--unfold the whole scheme of
+salvation? And suppose that the islander should
+honestly reject the true religion? Suppose he should
+say that he had "internal evidence" not only, but
+that many miracles had been performed by his god,
+in his behalf; that often when the sky was black
+with storm, he had sacrificed a toad, and in a few
+moments the sun was again visible, the heavens blue,
+and without a cloud; that on several occasions, having
+
+351
+
+forgotten at evening to sacrifice his toad, he found
+himself unable to sleep--that his conscience smote
+him, he had risen, made the sacrifice, returned to his
+bed, and in a few moments sunk into a serene and
+happy slumber? And suppose, further, that the man
+honestly believed that the efficacy of the sacrifice
+depended largely on the size of the toad? Now
+suppose that in this belief the man had died,--what
+then?
+
+It must be remembered that God knew when the
+missionary of the false religion went to the island;
+and knew that the islander would be convinced of the
+truth of the false religion; and he also knew that the
+missionary of the true religion could not, by any
+possibility, convince the islander of the error of his
+way; what then?
+
+If God is infinite, we cannot speak of him as
+making efforts, as being tired. We cannot con-
+sistently say that one thing is easy to him, and
+another thing is hard, providing both are possible.
+This being so, why did not God reveal himself to
+every human being? Instead of having an inspired
+book, why did he not make inspired folks? Instead
+of having his commandments put on tables of stone,
+why did he not write them on each human brain?
+
+352
+
+Why was not the mind of each man so made that
+every religious truth necessary to his salvation was
+an axiom?
+
+Do we not know absolutely that man is greatly
+influenced by his surroundings? If Mr. Talmage
+had been born in Turkey, is it not probable that
+he would now be a whirling Dervish? If he had
+first seen the light in Central Africa, he might now
+have been prostrate before some enormous serpent;
+if in India, he might have been a Brahmin, running a
+prayer-machine; if in Spain, he would probably have
+been a priest, with his beads and holy water. Had
+he been born among the North American Indians,
+he would speak of the "Great Spirit," and solemnly
+smoke the the pipe of peace.
+
+Mr. Talmage teaches that it is the duty of children
+to perpetuate the errors of their parents; conse-
+quently, the religion of his parents determined his
+theology. It is with him not a question of reason,
+but of parents; not a question of argument, but of
+filial affection. He does not wish to be a philoso-
+pher, but an obedient son. Suppose his father had
+been a Catholic, and his mother a Protestant,--what
+then? Would he show contempt for his mother by
+following the path of his father; or would he show
+
+353
+
+disrespect for his father, by accepting the religion of
+his mother; or would he have become a Protestant
+with Catholic proclivities, or a Catholic with Protest-
+ant leanings? Suppose his parents had both been
+infidels--what then?
+
+Is it not better for each one to decide honestly for
+himself? Admitting that your parents were good and
+kind; admitting that they were honest in their views,
+why not have the courage to say, that in your opinion,
+father and mother were both mistaken? No one can
+honor his parents by being a hypocrite, or an intellectu-
+al coward. Whoever is absolutely true to himself, is
+true to his parents, and true to the whole world. Who-
+ever is untrue to himself, is false to all mankind. Re-
+ligion must be an individual matter. If there is a God,
+and if there is a day of judgment, the church that a man
+belongs to will not be tried, but the man will be tried.
+
+It is a fact that the religion of most people was made
+for them by others; that they have accepted certain
+dogmas, not because they have examined them, but
+because they were told that they were true. Most of
+the people in the United States, had they been born in
+Turkey, would now be Mohammedans, and most of
+the Turks, had they been born in Spain, would now
+be Catholics.
+
+354
+
+It is almost, if not quite, impossible for a man to
+rise entirely above the ideas, views, doctrines and re-
+ligions of his tribe or country. No one expects to
+find philosophers in Central Africa, or scientists
+among the Fejees. No one expects to find philoso-
+phers or scientists in any country where the church
+has absolute control.
+
+If there is an infinitely good and wise God, of
+course he will take into consideration the surround-
+ings of every human being. He understands the
+philosophy of environment, and of heredity. He
+knows exactly the influence of the mother, of all
+associates, of all associations. He will also take into
+consideration the amount, quality and form of each
+brain, and whether the brain was healthy or diseased.
+He will take into consideration the strength of the
+passions, the weakness of the judgment. He will
+know exactly the force of all temptation--what was
+resisted. He will take an account of every effort
+made in the right direction, and will understand
+all the winds and waves and quicksands and shores
+and shallows in, upon and around the sea of every
+life.
+
+My own opinion is, that if such a being exists, and
+all these things are taken into consideration, we will
+
+355
+
+be absolutely amazed to see how small the difference
+is between the "good" and the "bad." Certainly
+there is no such difference as would justify a being
+of infinite wisdom and benevolence in rewarding one
+with eternal joy and punishing the other with eternal
+pain.
+
+_Question_. What are the principal reasons that
+have satisfied you that the Bible is not an inspired
+book?
+
+_Answer_. The great evils that have afflicted this
+world are:
+
+_First_. Human slavery--where men have bought
+and sold their fellow-men--sold babes from mothers,
+and have practiced) every conceivable cruelty upon
+the helpless.
+
+_Second_. Polygamy--an institution that destroys
+the home, that treats woman as a simple chattel, that
+does away with the sanctity of marriage, and with all
+that is sacred in love.
+
+_Third_. Wars of conquest and extermination--
+by which nations have been made the food of the
+sword.
+
+_Fourth_. The idea entertained by each nation that
+all other nations are destitute of rights--in other
+
+356
+
+words, patriotism founded upon egotism, prejudice,
+and love of plunder.
+
+_Fifth_. Religious persecution.
+
+_Sixth_. The divine right of kings--an idea that
+rests upon the inequality of human rights, and insists
+that people should be governed without their con-
+sent; that the right of one man to govern another
+comes from God, and not from the consent of the
+governed. This is caste--one of the most odious
+forms of slavery.
+
+_Seventh_. A belief in malicious supernatural be-
+ings--devils, witches, and wizards.
+
+_Eighth_. A belief in an infinite being who or-
+dered, commanded, established and approved all
+these evils.
+
+_Ninth_. The idea that one man can be good for
+another, or bad for another--that is to say, that one
+can be rewarded for the goodness of another, or
+justly punished for the sins of another.
+
+_Tenth_. The dogma that a finite being can commit
+an infinite sin, and thereby incur the eternal dis-
+pleasure of an infinitely good being, and be justly
+subjected to eternal torment.
+
+My principal objection to the Bible is that it sus-
+tains all of these ten evils--that it is the advocate of
+
+357
+
+human slavery, the friend of polygamy; that within
+its pages I find the command to wage wars of ex-
+termination; that I find also that the Jews were
+taught to hate foreigners--to consider all human
+beings as inferior to themselves; I also find persecu-
+tion commanded as a religious duty; that kings were
+seated upon their thrones by the direct act of God,
+and that to rebel against a king was rebellion against
+God. I object to the Bible also because I find within
+its pages the infamous spirit of caste--I see the sons
+of Levi set apart as the perpetual beggars and
+governors of a people; because I find the air filled
+with demons seeking to injure and betray the sons
+of men; because this book is the fountain of modern
+superstition, the bulwark of tyranny and the fortress
+of caste. This book also subverts the idea of justice
+by threatening infinite punishment for the sins of a
+finite being.
+
+At the same time, I admit--as I always have ad-
+mitted--that there are good passages in the Bible--
+good laws, good teachings, with now and then a true
+line of history. But when it is asserted that every
+word was written by inspiration--that a being of in-
+finite wisdom and goodness is its author,--then
+I raise the standard of revolt.
+
+358
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the declaration
+of Mr. Talmage that the Bible will be read in heaven
+throughout all the endless ages of eternity?
+
+_Answer_. Of course I know but very little as to
+what is or will be done in heaven. My knowledge
+of that country is somewhat limited, and it may be
+possible that the angels will spend most of their time
+in turning over the sacred leaves of the Old Testa-
+ment. I can not positively deny the statement of the
+Reverend Mr. Talmage as I have but very little idea
+as to how the angels manage to kill time.
+
+The Reverend Mr. Spurgeon stated in a sermon
+that some people wondered what they would do
+through all eternity in heaven. He said that, as for
+himself, for the first hundred thousand years he
+would look at the wound in one of the Savior's
+feet, and for the next hundred thousand years he
+would look at the wound in his other foot, and
+for the next hundred thousand years he would
+look at the wound in one of his hands, and for
+the next hundred thousand years he would look at
+the wound in the other hand, and for the next
+hundred thousand years he would look at the wound
+in his side.
+
+Surely, nothing could be more delightful than this
+
+359
+
+A man capable of being happy in such employment,
+could of course take great delight in reading even
+the genealogies of the Old Testament. It is very
+easy to see what a glow of joy would naturally over-
+spread the face of an angel while reading the history
+of the Jewish wars, how the seraphim and cherubim
+would clasp their rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate
+of Korah and his company, and what laughter would
+wake the echoes of the New Jerusalem as some one
+told again the story of the children and the bears;
+and what happy groups, with folded pinions, would
+smilingly listen to the 109th Psalm.
+
+[Illustration:  371]
+
+An orthodox "state of mind"
+
+
+
+
+THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.
+
+_As Mr. Talmage delivered the series of sermons
+referred to in these interviews, for the purpose
+of furnishing arguments to the young, so that they
+might not be misled by the sophistry of modern
+infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth,
+for use in Sunday schools, the pith and marrow of
+what he has been pleased to say, in the form of_
+
+
+A SHORTER CATECHISM.
+
+_Question_. Who made you?
+
+_Answer_. Jehovah, the original Presbyterian.
+
+_Question_. What else did he make?
+
+_Answer_. He made the world and all things.
+
+_Question_. Did he make the world out of nothing?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. What did he make it out of?
+
+_Answer_. Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels
+have pretended that if God made the universe, and if
+there was nothing until he did make it, he had nothing
+to make it out of. Of course this is perfectly absurd
+when we remember that he always had his "omnipo-
+tence and that is, undoubtedly, the material used.
+
+364
+
+_Question_. Did he create his own "omnipotence"?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not, he was always omnipo-
+tent.
+
+_Question_. Then if he always had "omnipotence,"
+he did not "create" the material of which the uni-
+verse is made; he simply took a portion of his
+"omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly, that is the way I under-
+stand it.
+
+_Question_. Is he still omnipotent, and has he as
+much "omnipotence" now as he ever had?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose he has.
+
+_Question_. How long did it take God to make the
+universe?
+
+_Answer_. Six "good-whiles."
+
+_Question_. How long is a "good-while"?
+
+_Answer_. That will depend upon the future dis-
+coveries of geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such
+a nature that they can be pulled out, or pushed up;
+and it is utterly impossible for any infidel, or scien-
+tific geologist, to make any period that a "good-while"
+won't fit.
+
+_Question_. What do you understand by "the
+"morning and evening" of a "good-while"?
+
+_Answer_. Of course the words "morning and
+
+365
+
+"evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply
+the beginning and the ending, of each "good-while."
+
+_Question_. On what day did God make vegetation?
+
+_Answer_. On the third day.
+
+_Question_. Was that before the sun was made?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; a "good-while" before.
+
+_Question_. How did vegetation grow without sun-
+light?
+
+_Answer_. My own opinion is, that it was either
+"nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon
+or "it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers
+"of molten granite;" or, "sufficient light might have
+"been emitted by the crystallization of rocks." It
+has been suggested that light might have been fur-
+nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and
+worms, but this I regard as going too far.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that light emitted by
+rocks would be sufficient to produce trees?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora
+"Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with
+both, most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. If the light of which you speak was
+sufficient, why was the sun made?
+
+_Answer_. To keep time with.
+
+_Question_. What did God make man of?
+
+366
+
+_Answer_. He made man of dust and "omnipo-
+"tence."
+
+_Question_. Did he make a woman at the same
+time that he made a man?
+
+_Answer_. No; he thought at one time to avoid
+the necessity of making a woman, and he caused all
+the animals to pass before Adam, to see what he
+would call them, and to see whether a fit companion
+could be found for him. Among them all, not one
+suited Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he
+would have to make an help-meet on purpose.
+
+_Question_. What was woman made of?
+
+_Answer_. She was made out of "man's side, out of
+his right side," and some more "omnipotence." Infi-
+dels say that she was made out of a rib, or a bone, but
+that is because they do not understand Hebrew.
+
+_Question_. What was the object of making woman
+out of man's side?
+
+_Answer_. So that a young man would think more
+of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grand-
+father.
+
+_Question_. What did God do with Adam and Eve
+after he got them done?
+
+_Answer_. He put them into a garden to see what
+they would do.
+
+367
+
+_Question_. Do we know where the Garden of Eden
+was, and have we ever found any place where a
+"river parted and became into four heads"?
+
+_Answer_. We are not certain where this garden
+was, and the river that parted into four heads cannot
+at present be found. Infidels have had a great deal
+to say about these four rivers, but they will wish
+they had even one, one of these days.
+
+_Question_. What happened to Adam and Eve in
+the garden?
+
+_Answer_. They were tempted by a snake who was
+an exceedingly good talker, and who probably came
+in walking on the end of his tail. This supposition
+is based upon the fact that, as a punishment, he was
+condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that time,
+of course, he walked upright.
+
+_Question_. What happened then?
+
+_Answer_. Our first parents gave way, ate of the
+forbidden fruit, and in consequence, disease and
+death entered the world. Had it not been for this,
+there would have been no death and no disease.
+Suicide would have been impossible, and a man
+could have been blown into a thousand atoms by
+dynamite, and the pieces would immediately have
+come together again. Fire would have refused to
+
+368
+
+burn and water to drown; there could have been no
+hunger, no thirst; all things would have been equally
+healthy.
+
+_Question_. Do you mean to say that there would
+have been no death in the world, either of animals,
+insects, or persons?
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. Do you also think that all briers and
+thorns sprang from the same source, and that had
+the apple not been eaten, no bush in the world
+would have had a thorn, and brambles and thistles
+would have been unknown?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Would there have been no poisonous
+plants, no poisonous reptiles?
+
+_Answer_. No, sir; there would have been none;
+there would have been no evil in the world if Adam
+and Eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit.
+
+_Question_. Was the snake who tempted them to
+eat, evil?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. '
+
+_Question_. Was he in the world before the for-
+bidden fruit was eaten?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was; he tempted them to
+eat it
+
+369
+
+_Question_. How, then, do you account for the fact
+that, before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an evil
+serpent was in the world?
+
+_Answer_. Perhaps apples had been eaten in other
+worlds.
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that such awful con-
+sequences flowed from so small an act?
+
+_Answer_. It is not for you to reason about it; you
+should simply remember that God is omnipotent.
+There is but one way to answer these things, and
+that is to admit their truth. Nothing so puts the
+Infinite out of temper as to see a human being
+impudent enough to rely upon his reason. The
+moment we rely upon our reason, we abandon God,
+and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever relies
+entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and
+reason has no need of him.
+
+_Question_. Were our first parents under the im-
+mediate protection of an infinite God?
+
+_Answer_. They were.
+
+_Question_. Why did he not protect them? Why
+did he not warn them of this snake? Why did he
+not put them on their guard? Why did he not
+make them so sharp, intellectually, that they could
+not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that
+
+370
+
+snake; or how did he come to make him; what did
+he make him for?
+
+_Answer_. You must remember that, although God
+made Adam and Eve perfectly good, still he was very
+anxious to test them. He also gave them the power
+of choice, knowing at the same time exactly what they
+would choose, and knowing that he had made them
+so that they must choose in a certain way. A being
+of infinite wisdom tries experiments. Knowing ex-
+actly what will happen, he wishes to see if it will.
+
+_Question_. What punishment did God inflict upon
+Adam and Eve for the sin of having eaten the for-
+bidden fruit?
+
+_Answer_. He pronounced a curse upon the woman,
+saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children,
+and that her husband should rule over her; that she,
+having tempted her husband, was made his slave;
+and through her, all married women have been de-
+prived of their natural liberty. On account of the
+sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying
+that it should bring forth thorns and thistles, and
+that man should eat his bread in sorrow, and that he
+should eat the herb of the field.
+
+_Question_. Did he turn them out of the garden
+because of their sin?
+
+371
+
+_Answer_. No. The reason God gave for turning
+them out of the garden was: "Behold the man is
+"become as one of us, to know good and evil; and
+"now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the
+"tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the
+"Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden
+"to till the ground from whence he was taken."
+
+_Question_. If the man had eaten of the tree of life,
+would he have lived forever?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Was he turned out to prevent his
+eating?
+
+_Answer_. He was.
+
+_Question_. Then the Old Testament tells us how we
+lost immortality, not that we are immortal, does it?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; it tells us how we lost it.
+
+_Question_. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve
+might get back into the garden, and eat of the fruit
+of the tree of life?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher-
+"ubim and a flaming sword which turned every
+"way to guard the tree of life."
+
+_Question_. Has any one ever seen any of these
+cherubim?
+
+_Answer_. Not that I know of.
+
+372
+
+_Question_. Where is the flaming sword now?
+
+_Answer_. Some angel has it in heaven.
+
+_Question_. Do you understand that God made
+coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve when
+he turned them out of the garden?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, sir.
+
+_Question_. Do you really believe that the infinite
+God killed some animals, took their skins from them,
+cut out and sewed up clothes for Adam and Eve?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible says so; we know that he
+had patterns for clothes, because he showed some
+to Moses on Mount Sinai.
+
+_Question_. About how long did God continue
+to pay particular attention to his children in this
+world?
+
+_Answer_. For about fifteen hundred years; and
+some of the people lived to be nearly a thousand
+years of age.
+
+_Question_. Did this God establish any schools or
+institutions of learning? Did he establish any church?
+Did he ordain any ministers, or did he have any re-
+vivals?
+
+_Answer_. No; he allowed the world to go on
+pretty much in its own way. He did not even keep
+his own boys at home. They came down and made
+
+373
+
+love to the daughters of men, and finally the world
+got exceedingly bad.
+
+_Question_. What did God do then?
+
+_Answer_. He made up his mind that he would drown
+them. You see they were all totally depraved,--in
+every joint and sinew of their bodies, in every drop
+of their blood, and in every thought of their brains.
+
+_Question_. Did he drown them all?
+
+_Answer_. No, he saved eight, to start with again.
+
+_Question_. Were these eight persons totally de-
+praved?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why did he not kill them, and start
+over again with a perfect pair? Would it not have
+been better to have had his flood at first, before he
+made anybody, and drowned the snake?
+
+_Answer_. "God's way are not our ways;" and
+besides, you must remember that "a thousand years
+"are as one day" with God.
+
+_Question_. How did God destroy the people?
+
+_Answer_. By water; it rained forty days and forty
+nights, and "the fountains of the great deep were
+"broken up."
+
+_Question_. How deep was the water?
+
+_Answer_. About five miles.
+
+374
+
+_Question_. How much did it rain each day?
+
+_Answer_. About eight hundred feet; though the
+better opinion now is, that it was a local flood. In-
+fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that
+degree that most orthodox people admit that the
+flood was rather local.
+
+_Question_. If it was a local flood, why did they put
+birds of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could
+have avoided a local flood?
+
+_Answer_. If you take this away from us, what do
+you propose to give us in its place? Some of the
+best people of the world have believed this story.
+Kind husbands, loving mothers, and earnest patriots
+have believed it, and that is sufficient.
+
+_Question_. At the time God made these people,
+did he know that he would have to drown them all?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he did.
+
+_Question_. Did he know when he made them that
+they would all be failures?
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. Why, then, did he make them?
+
+_Answer_. He made them for his own glory, and
+no man should disgrace his parents by denying it.
+
+_Question_. Were the people after the flood just as
+bad as they were before?
+
+375
+
+_Answer_. About the same.
+
+_Question_. Did they try to circumvent God?
+
+_Answer_. They did.
+
+_Question_. How?
+
+_Answer_. They got together for the purpose of build-
+ing a tower, the top of which should reach to heaven,
+so that they could laugh at any future floods, and go
+to heaven at any time they desired.
+
+_Question_. Did God hear about this?
+
+_Answer_. He did.
+
+_Question_. What did he say?
+
+_Answer_. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and
+see what the people are doing; I am satisfied they
+will succeed.
+
+_Question_. How were the people prevented from
+succeeding?
+
+_Answer_. God confounded their language, so that
+the mason on top could not cry "mort'!" to the
+hod-carrier below; he could not think of the word
+to use, to save his life, and the building stopped.
+
+_Question_. If it had not been for the confusion of
+tongues at Babel, do you really think that all the
+people in the world would have spoken just the same
+language, and would have pronounced every word
+precisely the same?
+
+376
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. If it had not been, then, for the con-
+fusion of languages, spelling books, grammars and
+dictionaries would have been useless?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose so.
+
+_Question_. Do any two people in the whole world
+speak the same language, now?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they don't, and this is one of
+the great evidences that God introduced confusion
+into the languages. Every error in grammar, every
+mistake in spelling, every blunder in pronunciation,
+proves the truth of the Babel story.
+
+_Question_. This being so, this miracle is the best
+attested of all?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose it is.
+
+_Question_. Do you not think that a confusion of
+tongues would bring men together instead of separa-
+ting them? Would not a man unable to converse
+with his fellow feel weak instead of strong; and
+would not people whose language had been con-
+founded cling together for mutual support?
+
+_Answer_. According to nature, yes; according to
+theology, no; and these questions must be answered
+according to theology. And right here, it may be
+well enough to state, that in theology the unnatural
+
+377
+
+is the probable, and the impossible is what has always
+happened. If theology were simply natural, anybody
+could be a theologian.
+
+_Question_. Did God ever make any other special
+efforts to convert the people, or to reform the world?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom
+and Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.
+
+_Question_. Do you suppose it was really brim-
+stone?
+
+_Answer_. Undoubtedly.
+
+_Question_. Do you think this brimstone came from
+the clouds?
+
+_Answer_. Let me tell you that you have no right
+to examine the Bible in the light of what people are
+pleased to call "science." The natural has nothing
+to do with the supernatural. Naturally there would
+be no brimstone in the clouds, but supernaturally
+there might be. God could make brimstone out of
+his "omnipotence." We do not know really what
+brimstone is, and nobody knows exactly how brim-
+stone is made. As a matter of fact, all the brimstone
+in the world might have fallen at that time.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Lot's wife was
+changed into salt?
+
+_Answer_. Of course she was. A miracle was per-
+
+378
+
+formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made
+by changing Lot's wife into that article, was standing.
+Christian travelers have seen it.
+
+_Question_. Why do you think she was changed
+into salt?
+
+_Answer_. For the purpose of keeping the event
+fresh in the minds of men.
+
+_Question_. God having failed to keep people in-
+nocent in a garden; having failed to govern them
+outside of a garden; having failed to reform them by
+water; having failed to produce any good result by a
+confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them
+with fire and brimstone, what did he then do?
+
+_Answer_. He concluded that he had no time to
+waste on them all, but that he would have to select
+one tribe, and turn his entire attention to just a few
+folks.
+
+_Question_. Whom did he select?
+
+_Answer_. A man by the name of Abram.
+
+_Question_. What kind of man was Abram?
+
+_Answer_. If you wish to know, read the twelfth
+chapter of Genesis; and if you still have any doubts
+as to his character, read the twentieth chapter of the
+same book, and you will see that he was a man who
+made merchandise of his wife's body. He had had
+
+379
+
+such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried the experi-
+ment again on Abimelech.
+
+_Question_. Did Abraham show any gratitude?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; he offered to sacrifice his son, to
+show his confidence in Jehovah.
+
+_Question_. What became of Abraham and his
+people?
+
+_Answer_. God took such care of them, that in
+about two hundred and fifteen years they were all
+slaves in the land of Egypt.
+
+_Question_. How long did they remain in slavery?
+
+_Answer_. Two hundred and fifteen years.
+
+_Question_. Were they the same people that God
+had promised to take care of?
+
+_Answer_. They were.
+
+_Question_. Was God at that time, in favor of
+slavery?
+
+_Answer_. Not at that time. He was angry at the
+Egyptians for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards
+authorized the Jews to enslave other people.
+
+_Question_. What means did he take to liberate
+the Jews?
+
+_Answer_. He sent his agents to Pharaoh, and de-
+manded their freedom; and upon Pharaoh s refusing,
+he afflicted the people, who had nothing to do with
+
+380
+
+it, with various plagues,--killed children, and tor-
+mented and tortured beasts.
+
+_Question_. Was such conduct Godlike?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. If you have anything against
+your neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his
+horse, or torment his dog. Nothing can be nobler
+than this. You see it is much better to injure his
+animals than to injure him. To punish animals for
+the sins of their owners must be just, or God would
+not have done it. Pharaoh insisted on keeping the
+people in slavery, and therefore God covered the
+bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He also bruised
+them to death with hailstones. From this we infer,
+that "the loving kindness of God is over all his works."
+
+_Question_. Do you consider such treatment of ani-
+mals consistent with divine mercy?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. You know that under the
+Mosaic dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he
+could settle with God by killing an ox, or a sheep,
+or some doves. If the man failed to kill them, of
+course God would kill them. It was upon this prin-
+ciple that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians.
+They had sinned, and he merely took his pay.
+
+_Question_. How was it possible, under the old dis-
+pensation, to please a being of infinite kindness?
+
+381
+
+_Answer_. All you had to do was to take an innocent
+animal, bring it to the altar, cut its throat, and sprinkle
+the altar with its blood. Certain parts of it were to be
+given to the butcher as his share, and the rest was to
+be burnt on the altar. When God saw an animal thus
+butchered, and smelt the warm blood mingled with
+the odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and the
+smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face.
+Of course, infidels laugh at these things; but what
+can you expect of men who have not been "born
+"again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with God."
+_Question_. What else did God do in order to in-
+duce Pharaoh to liberate the Jews?
+
+_Answer_. He had his agents throw down a cane
+in the presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah
+changed this cane into a serpent.
+
+_Question_. Did this convince Pharaoh?
+
+_Answer_. No; he sent for his own magicians.
+_Question_. What did they do?
+
+_Answer_. They threw down some canes and they
+also were changed into serpents.
+
+_Question_. Did Jehovah change the canes of the
+Egyptian magicians into snakes?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose he did, as he is the only one
+capable of performing such a miracle.
+
+382
+
+_Question_. If the rod of Aaron was changed into
+a serpent in order to convince Pharaoh that God had
+sent Aaron and Moses, why did God change the
+sticks of the Egyptian magicians into serpents--why
+did he discredit his own agents, and render worth-
+less their only credentials?
+
+_Answer_. Well, we cannot explain the conduct of
+Jehovah; we are perfectly satisfied that it was for
+the best. Even in this age of the world God allows
+infidels to overwhelm his chosen people with argu-
+ments; he allows them to discover facts that his
+ministers can not answer, and yet we are satisfied
+that in the end God will give the victory to us. All
+these things are tests of faith. It is upon this prin-
+ciple that God allows geology to laugh at Genesis,
+that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict
+his holy word.
+
+_Question_. What did God do with these people
+after Pharaoh allowed them to go?
+
+_Answer_. Finding that they were not fit to settle
+a new country, owing to the fact that when hungry
+they longed for food, and sometimes when their lips
+were cracked with thirst insisted on having water,
+God in his infinite mercy had them marched round
+and round, back and forth, through a barren wilder-
+
+383
+
+ness, until all, with the exception of two persons,
+died.
+
+_Question_. Why did he do this?
+
+_Answer_. Because he had promised these people
+that he would take them "to a land flowing with
+"milk and honey."
+
+_Question_. Was God always patient and kind and
+merciful toward his children while they were in the
+wilderness?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, he always was merciful and kind
+and patient. Infidels have taken the ground that he
+visited them with plagues and disease and famine;
+that he had them bitten by serpents, and now and
+then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands
+of them, and in other ways saw to it that they were
+kept as comfortable and happy as was consistent with
+good government; but all these things were for their
+good; and the fact is, infidels have no real sense of
+justice.
+
+_Question_. How did God happen to treat the Is-
+raelites in this way, when he had promised Abraham
+that he would take care of his progeny, and when he
+had promised the same to the poor wretches while
+they were slaves in Egypt?
+
+_Answer_. Because God is unchangeable in his na-
+
+384
+
+ture, and wished to convince them that every being
+should be perfectly faithful to his promise.
+
+_Question_. Was God driven to madness by the
+conduct of his chosen people?
+
+_Answer_. Almost.
+
+_Question_. Did he know exactly what they would
+do when he chose them?
+
+_Answer_. Exactly.
+
+_Question_. Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?
+
+_Answer_. They were. They worshiped other gods
+--gods made of wood and stone.
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that they were not
+convinced of the power of God, by the many mira-
+cles wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, it is very wonderful; but the Jews,
+who must have seen bread rained from heaven; who
+saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill
+and down; who noticed that their clothes did not
+wear out, and did not even get shiny at the knees,
+while the elbows defied the ravages of time, and
+their shoes remained perfect for forty years; it is
+wonderful that when they saw the ground open
+and swallow their comrades; when they saw God
+talking face to face with Moses as a man talks with
+his friend; after they saw the cloud by day and the
+
+385
+
+pillar of fire by night,--it is absolutely astonishing
+that they had more faith in a golden calf that they
+made themselves, than in Jehovah.
+
+_Question_. How is it that the Jews had no confi-
+dence in these miracles?
+
+_Answer_. Because they were there and saw them.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that it is necessary for
+us to believe all the miracles of the Old Testament
+in order to be saved?
+
+_Answer_. The Old Testament is the foundation of
+the New. If the Old Testament is not inspired, then
+the New is of no value. If the Old Testament is
+inspired, all the miracles are true, and we cannot
+believe that God would allow any errors, or false
+statements, to creep into an inspired volume, and to
+be perpetuated through all these years.
+
+_Question_. Should we believe the miracles, whether
+they are reasonable or not?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly; if they were reasonable, they
+would not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness
+that appeals to our credulity and our faith. It is im-
+possible to have theological faith in anything that
+can be demonstrated. It is the office of faith to
+believe, not only without evidence, but in spite of
+evidence. It is impossible for the carnal mind to
+
+386
+
+believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the
+length of his hair. "God has made the wisdom of
+"this world foolishness." Neither can the uncon-
+verted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel kept by
+ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would
+in and of itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot
+could create oil. But to a Christian, in order that a
+widow might feed a preacher, the truth of these
+stories is perfectly apparent.
+
+_Question_. How should we regard the wonderful
+stories of the Old Testament?
+
+_Answer_. They should be looked upon as "types"
+and "symbols." They all have a spiritual signifi-
+cance. The reason I believe the story of Jonah is,
+that Jonah is a type of Christ.
+
+_Question_. Do you believe the story of Jonah to
+be a true account of a literal fact?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. You must remember that
+Jonah was not swallowed by a whale. God "pre-
+"pared a great fish" for that occasion. Neither is it by
+any means certain that Jonah was in the belly of
+this whale. "He probably stayed in his mouth."
+Even if he was in his stomach, it was very easy
+for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice
+by rapidly walking up and down..
+
+387
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Jonah was really in
+the whale's stomach?
+
+_Answer_. My own opinion is that he stayed in his
+mouth. The only objection to this theory is, that it
+is more reasonable than the other and requires less
+faith. Nothing could be easier than for God to make
+a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one
+passenger in his mouth. I throw out this suggestion
+simply that you may be able to answer the objections
+of infidels who are always laughing at this story.
+
+_Question_. Do you really believe that Elijah went
+to heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of
+fire?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he did.
+
+_Question_. What was this miracle performed for?
+
+_Answer_. To convince the people of the power of
+God.
+
+_Question_. Who saw the miracle?
+
+_Answer_. Nobody but Elisha.
+
+_Question_. Was he convinced before that time?
+
+_Answer_. Oh yes; he was one of God's prophets.
+
+_Question_. Suppose that in these days two men
+should leave a town together, and after a while one
+of them should come back having on the clothes of
+the other, and should account for the fact that he had
+
+388
+
+his friend's clothes by saying that while they were
+going along the road together a chariot of fire came
+down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds, and there-
+upon his friend got into the carriage, threw him his
+clothes, and departed,--would you believe it?
+
+_Answer_. Of course things like that don't happen
+in these days; God does not have to rely on wonders
+now.
+
+_Question_. Do you mean that he performs no
+miracles at the present day?
+
+_Answer_. We cannot say that he does not perform
+miracles now, but we are not in position to call atten-
+tion to any particular one. Of course he supervises
+the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in
+his judgment is necessary.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Samson's strength
+depended on the length of his hair?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible so states, and the Bible is true.
+A physiologist might say that a man could not use
+the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes, but these
+same physiologists could not tell you how you move
+a finger, nor how you lift a feather; still, actuated by
+the pride of intellect, they insist that the length of a
+man's hair could not determine his strength. God
+says it did; the physiologist says that it did not; we
+
+389
+
+can not hesitate whom to believe. For the purpose
+of avoiding eternal agony I am willing to believe
+anything; I am willing to say that strength depends
+upon the length of hair, or faith upon the length of
+ears. I am perfectly willing to believe that a man
+caught three hundred foxes, and put fire brands be-
+tween their tails; that he slew thousands with a bone,
+and that he made a bee hive out of a lion. I will
+believe, if necessary, that when this man's hair was
+short he hardly had strength enough to stand, and
+that when it was long, he could carry away the gates
+of a city, or overthrow a temple filled with people.
+If the infidel is right, I will lose nothing by believing,
+but if he is wrong, I shall gain an eternity of joy.
+If God did not intend that we should believe these
+stories, he never would have told them, and why
+should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis-
+prove one of the statements of the Lord?
+
+_Question_. Suppose it should turn out that some
+of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the
+original Hebrew, should we still believe them?
+
+_Answer_. The safe side is the best side. It is
+far better to err on the side of belief, than on the
+side of infidelity. God does not threaten anybody
+with eternal punishment for believing too much.
+
+390
+
+Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the
+side of thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely
+safe. As they diverge from that point,--as they rise
+in the intellectual scale, as the brain develops, as the
+faculties enlarge, the danger increases. I know that
+some biblical students now take the ground that
+Samson caught no foxes,--that he only took sheaves
+of wheat that had been already cut and bound, set
+them on fire, and threw them into the grain still
+standing. If this is what he did, of course there is
+nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the
+story is lost. So, others contend that Elijah was not
+fed by the ravens, but by the Arabs. They tell us
+that the Hebrew word standing for "Arab" also
+stands for "bird," and that the word really means
+"migratory--going from place to place--homeless."
+But I prefer the old version. It certainly will do no
+harm to believe that ravens brought bread and flesh
+to a prophet of God. Where they got their bread
+and flesh is none of my business; how they knew
+where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how
+God talks to ravens, or how he gave them directions,
+I have no right to inquire. I leave these questions
+to the scientists, the blasphemers, and thinkers.
+There are many people in the church anxious to
+
+391
+
+get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands,
+I have no doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn
+that there is, in fact, nothing miraculous in Scripture;
+but when you take away the miraculous, you take
+away the supernatural; when you take away the
+supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when
+you take away the ministry, hundreds of thousands
+of men will be left without employment.
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that the Egyptians
+were not converted by the miracles wrought in their
+country?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, they all would have been, if God
+had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent
+it. Jehovah always took great delight in furnishing
+the evidence, and then hardening the man's heart so
+that he would not believe it. After all the miracles
+that had been performed in Egypt,--the most won-
+derful that were ever done in any country, the
+Egyptians were as unbelieving as at first; they pur-
+sued the Israelites, knowing that they were protected
+by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them,
+came back and worshiped their own false gods just as
+firmly as before. All of which shows the unreason-
+ableness of a Pagan, and the natural depravity of
+human nature.
+
+392
+
+_Question_. How did it happen that the Canaanites
+were never convinced that the Jews were assisted by
+Jehovah?
+
+_Answer_. They must have been an exceedingly
+brave people to contend so many years with the
+chosen people of God. Notwithstanding all their
+cities were burned time and time again; notwith-
+standing all the men, women and children were put
+to the edge of the sword; notwithstanding the taking
+of all their cattle and sheep, they went right on
+fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever.
+Each one lost his life many times, and was just as
+ready for the next conflict. My own opinion is, that
+God kept them alive by raising them from the dead
+after each battle, for the purpose of punishing the
+Jews. God used his enemies as instruments for the
+civilization of the Jewish people. He did not wish
+to convert them, because they would give him much
+more trouble as Jews than they did as Canaanites.
+He had all the Jews he could conveniently take care
+of. He found it much easier to kill a hundred
+Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the fact that
+the heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the
+sun and moon?
+
+393
+
+_Answer_. They were so ignorant that they had
+not the slightest conception of the real cause of
+the phenomenon. Had they known the size of
+the earth, and the relation it sustained to the other
+heavenly bodies; had they known the magnitude of
+the sun, and the motion of the moon, they would,
+in all probability, have been as greatly astonished as
+the Jews were; but being densely ignorant of as-
+tronomy, it must have produced upon them not the
+slightest impression. But we must remember that
+the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose
+of converting these people, but to give Joshua more
+time to kill them. As soon as we see clearly the
+purpose of Jehovah, we instantly perceive how ad-
+mirable were the means adopted.
+
+_Question_. Do you not consider the treatment
+of the Canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious?
+
+_Answer_. To a totally depraved man, it does look
+cruel; to a being without any good in him,--to one
+who has inherited the rascality of many generations,
+the murder of innocent women and little children
+does seem horrible; to one who is "contaminated in
+"all his parts," by original sin,--who was "conceived
+"in sin, and brought forth in iniquity," the assassina-
+tion of men, and the violation of captive maidens,
+
+394
+
+do not seem consistent with infinite goodness. But
+when one has been "born again," when "the love
+"of God has been shed abroad in his heart," when
+he loves all mankind, when he "overcomes evil with
+"good," when he "prays for those who despite-
+"fully use him and persecute him,"--to such a man,
+the extermination of the Canaanites, the violation
+of women, the slaughter of babes, and the destruc-
+tion of countless thousands, is the highest evidence
+of the goodness, the mercy, and the long-suffering
+of God. When a man has been "born again," all
+the passages of the Old Testament that appear so
+horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state,
+become the dearest, the most consoling, and the
+most beautiful of truths. The real Christian reads
+the accounts of these ancient battles with the greatest
+possible satisfaction. To one who really loves his
+enemies, the groans of men, the shrieks of women,
+and the cries of babes, make music sweeter than the
+zephyr's breath.
+
+_Question_. In your judgment, why did God destroy
+the Canaanites?
+
+_Answer_. To prevent their contaminating his
+chosen people. He knew that if the Jews were
+allowed to live with such neighbors, they would
+
+395
+
+finally become as bad as the Canaanites themselves.
+He wished to civilize his chosen people, and it was
+therefore necessary for him to destroy the heathen.
+
+_Question_. Did God succeed in civilizing the Jews
+after he had "removed" the Canaanites?
+
+_Answer_. Well, not entirely. He had to allow the
+heathen he had not destroyed to overrun the whole
+land and make captives of the Jews. This was done
+for the good of his chosen people.
+
+_Question_. Did he then succeed in civilizing them?
+
+_Answer_. Not quite.
+
+_Question_. Did he ever quite succeed in civilizing
+them?
+
+_Answer_. Well, we must admit that the experi-
+ment never was a conspicuous success. The Jews
+were chosen by the Almighty 430 years before he
+appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai. He was their
+direct Governor. He attended personally to their
+religion and politics, and gave up a great part of his
+valuable time for about two thousand years, to the
+management of their affairs; and yet, such was the
+condition of the Jewish people, after they had had all
+these advantages, that when there arose among them
+a perfectly kind, just, generous and honest man, these
+people, with whom God had been laboring for so
+
+396
+
+many centuries, deliberately put to death that good
+and loving man.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that God really endeav-
+ored to civilize the Jews?
+
+_Answer_. This is an exceedingly hard question.
+If he had really tried to do it, of course he could
+have done it. We must not think of limiting the
+power of the infinite. But you must remember that
+if he had succeeded in civilizing the Jews, if he had
+educated them up to the plane of intellectual liberty,
+and made them just and kind and merciful, like him-
+self, they would not have crucified Christ, and you
+can see at once the awful condition in which we
+would all be to-day. No atonement could have
+been made; and if no atonement had been made,
+then, according to the Christian system, the whole
+world would have been lost. We must admit that
+there was no time in the history of the Jews from
+Sinai to Jerusalem, that they would not have put a
+man like Christ to death.
+
+_Question_. So you think that, after all, it was not
+God's intention that the Jews should become civilized?
+
+_Answer_. We do not know. We can only say
+that "God's ways are not our ways." It may be
+that God took them in his special charge, for the
+
+397
+
+purpose of keeping them bad enough to make the
+necessary sacrifice. That may have been the divine
+plan. In any event, it is safer to believe the explana-
+tion that is the most unreasonable.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Christ knew the
+Jews would crucify him?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that when he chose
+Judas he knew that he would betray him?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Did he know when Judas went to the
+chief priest and made the bargain for the delivery
+of Christ?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Why did he allow himself to be be-
+trayed, if he knew the plot?
+
+_Answer_. Infidelity is a very good doctrine to live
+by, but you should read the last words of Paine and
+Voltaire.
+
+_Question_. If Christ knew that Judas would betray
+him, why did he choose him?
+
+_Answer_. Nothing can exceed the atrocities of the
+French Revolution--when they carried a woman
+through the streets and worshiped her as the goddess
+of Reason.
+
+398
+
+_Question_. Would not the mission of Christ have
+been a failure had no one betrayed him?
+
+_Answer_. Thomas Paine was a drunkard, and re-
+canted on his death-bed, and died a blaspheming
+infidel besides.
+
+_Question_. Is it not clear that an atonement was
+necessary; and is it not equally clear that the atone-
+ment could not have been made unless somebody
+had betrayed Christ; and unless the Jews had been
+wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him?
+
+_Answer_. Of course the atonement had to be
+made. It was a part of the "divine plan" that Christ
+should be betrayed, and that the Jews should be
+wicked enough to kill him. Otherwise, the world
+would have been lost.
+
+_Question_. Suppose Judas had understood the
+divine plan, what ought he to have done? Should
+he have betrayed Christ, or let somebody else do it;
+or should he have allowed the world to perish, in-
+cluding his own soul?
+
+_Answer_. If you take the Bible away from the
+world, "how would it be possible to have witnesses
+"sworn in courts;" how would it be possible to ad-
+minister justice?
+
+_Question_. If Christ had not been betrayed and
+
+399
+
+crucified, is it true that his own mother would be in
+perdition to-day?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly. There was but one
+way by which she could be saved, and that was by
+the death of her son--through the blood of the
+atonement. She was totally depraved through the
+sin of Adam, and deserved eternal death. Even her
+love for the infant Christ was, in the sight of God,--
+that is to say, of her babe,--wickedness. It can not
+be repeated too often that there is only one way to
+be saved, and that is, to believe in the Lord Jesus
+Christ.
+
+_Question_. Could Christ have prevented the Jews
+from crucifying him?
+
+_Answer_. He could.
+
+_Question_. If he could have saved his life and did
+not, was he not guilty of suicide?
+
+_Answer_. No one can understand these questions
+who has not read the prophecies of Daniel, and has
+not a clear conception of what is meant by "the full-
+"ness of time."
+
+_Question_. What became of all the Canaanites, the
+Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and Romans and
+Chinese? What became of the billions who died
+before the promise was made to Abraham; of the
+
+400
+
+billions and billions who never heard of the Bible,
+who never heard the name, even, of Jesus Christ--
+never knew of "the scheme of salvation"? What
+became of the millions and billions who lived in this
+hemisphere, and of whose existence Jehovah himself
+seemed perfectly ignorant?
+
+_Answer_. They were undoubtedly lost. God
+having made them, had a right to do with them as
+he pleased. They are probably all in hell to-day, and
+the fact that they are damned, only adds to the joy
+of the redeemed. It is by contrast that we are able
+to perceive the infinite kindness with which God has
+treated us.
+
+_Question_. Is it not possible that something can
+be done for a human soul in another world as well as
+in this?
+
+_Answer_. No; this is the only world in which
+God even attempts to reform anybody. In the
+other world, nothing is done for the purpose of
+making anybody better. Here in this world, where
+man lives but a few days, is the only opportunity
+for moral improvement. A minister can do a thou-
+sand times more for a soul than its creator; and this
+country is much better adapted to moral growth than
+heaven itself. A person who lived on this earth a
+
+401
+
+few years, and died without having been converted,
+has no hope in another world. The moment he arrives
+at the judgment seat, nothing remains but to damn
+him. Neither God, nor the Holy Ghost, nor Jesus
+Christ, can have the least possible influence with
+him there.
+
+_Question_. When God created each human being,
+did he know exactly what would be his eternal fate?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly he did.
+
+_Question_. Did he know that hundreds and millions
+and billions would suffer eternal pain?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. But he gave them freedom
+of choice between good and evil.
+
+_Question_. Did he know exactly how they would
+use that freedom?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Did he know that billions would use
+it wrong?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Was it optional with him whether he
+should make such people or not?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Had these people any option as to
+whether they would be made or not?
+
+_Answer_, No.
+
+402
+
+_Question_. Would it not have been far better to
+leave them unconscious dust?
+
+_Answer_. These questions show how foolish it is
+to judge God according to a human standard. What
+to us seems just and merciful, God may regard in an
+exactly opposite light; and we may hereafter be
+developed to such a degree that we will regard the
+agonies of the damned as the highest possible evi-
+dence of the goodness and mercy of God.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the fact that
+God did not make himself known except to Abra-
+ham and his descendants? Why did he fail to
+reveal himself to the other nations--nations that,
+compared with the Jews, were learned, cultivated
+and powerful? Would you regard a revelation now
+made to the Esquimaux as intended for us; and
+would it be a revelation of which we would be
+obliged to take notice?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, God could have revealed him-
+self, not only to all the great nations, but to each
+individual. He could have had the Ten Command-
+ments engraved on every heart and brain; or he
+could have raised up prophets in every land; but
+he chose, rather, to allow countless millions of his
+children to wander in the darkness and blackness of
+
+403
+
+Nature; chose, rather, that they should redden their
+hands in each other's blood; chose, rather, that they
+should live without light, and die without hope;
+chose, rather, that they should suffer, not only in this
+world, but forever in the next. Of course we have
+no right to find fault with the choice of God.
+
+_Question_. Now you can tell a sinner to "believe
+"on the Lord Jesus Christ;" what could a sinner have
+been told in Egypt, three thousand years ago; and
+in what language would you have addressed a Hindu
+in the days of Buddha--the "divine scheme" at that
+time being a secret in the divine breast?
+
+_Answer_. It is not for us to think upon these
+questions. The moment we examine the Christian
+system, we begin to doubt. In a little while, we shall
+be infidels, and shall lose the respect of those who
+refuse to think. It is better to go with the majority.
+These doctrines are too sacred to be touched. You
+should be satisfied with the religion of your father
+and your mother. "You want some book on the
+"centre-table," in the parlor; it is extremely handy
+to have a Family Record; and what book, other than
+the Bible, could a mother give a son as he leaves the
+old homestead?
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that all the writers
+
+404
+
+of the four gospels do not give an account of the
+ascension of Jesus Christ?
+
+_Answer_. This question has been answered long
+ago, time and time again.
+
+_Question_. Perhaps it has, but would it not be
+well enough to answer it once more? Some may
+not have seen the answer?
+
+_Answer_. Show me the hospitals that infidels
+have built; show me the asylums that infidels
+have founded.
+
+_Question_. I know you have given the usual an-
+swer; but after all, is it not singular that a miracle
+so wonderful as the bodily ascension of a man, should
+not have been mentioned by all the writers of that
+man's life? Is it not wonderful that some of them
+said that he did ascend, and others that he agreed to
+stay with his disciples always?
+
+_Answer_. People unacquainted with the Hebrew,
+can have no conception of these things. A story
+in plain English, does not sound as it does in Hebrew.
+Miracles seem altogether more credible, when told in
+a dead language.
+
+_Question_. What, in your judgment, became of
+the dead who were raised by Christ? Is it not
+singular that they were never mentioned afterward?
+
+405
+
+Would not a man who had been raised from the
+dead naturally be an object of considerable interest,
+especially to his friends and acquaintances? And
+is it not also wonderful that Christ, after having
+wrought so many miracles, cured so many lame and
+halt and blind, fed so many thousands miraculously,
+and after having entered Jerusalem in triumph as a
+conqueror and king, had to be pointed out by one
+of his own disciples who was bribed for the purpose?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, all these things are exceed-
+ingly wonderful, and if found in any other book,
+would be absolutely incredible; but we have no
+right to apply the same kind of reasoning to the
+Bible that we apply to the Koran or to the sacred
+books of the Hindus. For the ordinary affairs of
+this world, God has given us reason; but in the
+examination of religious questions, we should de-
+pend upon credulity and faith.
+
+_Question_. If Christ came to offer himself a sacri-
+fice, for the purpose of making atonement for the
+sins of such as might believe on him, why did he
+not make this fact known to all of his disciples?
+
+_Answer_. He did. This was, and is, the gospel.
+
+_Question_. How is it that Matthew says nothing
+about "salvation by faith," but simply says that God
+
+406
+
+will be merciful to the merciful, that he will forgive
+the forgiving, and says not one word about the
+necessity of believing anything?
+
+_Answer_. But you will remember that Mark says,
+in the last chapter of his gospel, that "whoso be-
+"lieveth not shall be damned."
+
+_Question_. Do you admit that Matthew says
+nothing on the subject?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, I suppose I must.
+
+_Question_. Is not that passage in Mark generally
+admitted to be an interpolation?
+
+_Answer_. Some biblical scholars say that it is.
+
+_Question_. Is that portion of the last chapter of
+Mark found in the Syriac version of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. It is not.
+
+_Question_. If it was necessary to believe on Jesus
+Christ, in order to be saved, how is it that Matthew
+failed to say so?
+
+_Answer_. "There are more copies of the Bible
+"printed to-day, than of any other book in the world,
+"and it is printed in more languages than any other
+"book."
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it necessary to be
+"regenerated"--to be "born again"--in order to be
+saved?
+
+407
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Did Matthew say anything on the sub-
+ject of "regeneration"?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. Did Mark?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. Did Luke?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. Is Saint John the only one who speaks
+of the necessity of being "born again"?
+
+_Answer_. He is.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Matthew, Mark and
+Luke knew anything about the necessity of "regen-
+"eration"?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they did.
+
+_Question_. Why did they fail to speak of it?
+
+_Answer_. There is no civilization without the Bible.
+The moment you throw away the sacred Scriptures,
+you are all at sea--you are without an anchor and
+without a compass.
+
+_Question_. You will remember that, according to
+Mark, Christ said to his disciples: "Go ye into all
+"the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
+Did he refer to the gospel set forth by Mark?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he did.
+
+408
+
+_Question_. Well, in the gospel set forth by Mark,
+there is not a word about "regeneration," and no
+word about the necessity of believing anything--ex-
+cept in an interpolated passage. Would it not seem
+from this, that "regeneration" and a "belief in the
+"Lord Jesus Christ," are no part of the gospel?
+
+_Answer_. Nothing can exceed in horror the last
+moments of the infidel; nothing can be more ter-
+rible than the death of the doubter. When the
+glories of this world fade from the vision; when am-
+bition becomes an empty name; when wealth turns
+to dust in the palsied hand of death, of what use is
+philosophy then? Who cares then for the pride of
+intellect? In that dread moment, man needs some-
+thing to rely on, whether it is true or not.
+
+_Question_. Would it not have been more con-
+vincing if Christ, after his resurrection, had shown
+himself to his enemies as well as to his friends?
+Would it not have greatly strengthened the evidence
+in the case, if he had visited Pilate; had presented
+himself before Caiaphas, the high priest; if he had
+again entered the temple, and again walked the
+streets of Jerusalem?
+
+_Answer_. If the evidence had been complete and
+overwhelming, there would have been no praise-
+
+409
+
+worthiness in belief; even publicans and sinners
+would have believed, if the evidence had been suffi-
+cient. The amount of evidence required is the test
+of the true Christian spirit.
+
+_Question_. Would it not also have been better
+had the ascension taken place in the presence of
+unbelieving thousands; it seems such a pity to have
+wasted such a demonstration upon those already
+convinced?
+
+_Answer_. These questions are the natural fruit of
+the carnal mind, and can be accounted for only by
+the doctrine of total depravity. Nothing has given
+the church more trouble than just such questions.
+Unholy curiosity, a disposition to pry into the divine
+mysteries, a desire to know, to investigate, to explain
+--in short, to understand, are all evidences of a re-
+probate mind.
+
+_Question_. How can we account for the fact that
+Matthew alone speaks of the wise men of the East
+coming with gifts to the infant Christ; that he alone
+speaks of the little babes being killed by Herod? Is
+it possible that the other writers never heard of these
+things?
+
+_Answer_. Nobody can get any good out of the
+Bible by reading it in a critical spirit. The contra-
+
+410
+
+dictions and discrepancies are only apparent, and melt
+away before the light of faith. That which in other
+books would be absolute and palpable contradiction,
+is, in the Bible, when spiritually discerned, a perfect
+and beautiful harmony. My own opinion is, that
+seeming contradictions are in the Bible for the pur-
+pose of testing and strengthening the faith of Chris-
+tians, and for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels,
+"that they might believe a lie and be damned."
+_Question_. Is it possible that a good God would
+take pains to deceive his children?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible is filled with instances of that
+kind, and all orthodox ministers now know that
+fossil animals--that is, representations of animals in
+stone, were placed in the rocks on purpose to mis-
+lead men like Darwin and Humboldt, Huxley and
+Tyndall. It is also now known that God, for the
+purpose of misleading the so-called men of science,
+had hairy elephants preserved in ice, made stomachs
+for them, and allowed twigs of trees to be found in
+these stomachs, when, as a matter of fact, no such
+elephants ever lived or ever died. These men who
+are endeavoring to overturn the Scriptures with the
+lever of science will find that they have been de-
+ceived. Through all eternity they will regret their
+
+411
+
+philosophy. They will wish, in the next world, that
+they had thrown away geology and physiology and
+all other "ologies" except theology. The time is
+coming when Jehovah will "mock at their fears and
+"laugh at their calamity."
+
+_Question_. If Joseph was not the father of Christ,
+why was his genealogy given to show that Christ
+was of the blood of David; why would not the
+genealogy of any other Jew have done as well?
+
+_Answer_. That objection was raised and answered
+hundreds of years ago.
+
+_Question_. If they wanted to show that Christ was of
+the blood of David, why did they not give the gene-
+alogy of his mother if Joseph was not his father?
+
+_Answer_. That objection was answered hundreds
+of years ago.
+
+_Question_. How was it answered?
+
+_Answer_. When Voltaire was dying, he sent for a
+priest.
+
+_Question_. How does it happen that the two gene-
+alogies given do not agree?
+
+_Answer_. Perhaps they were written by different
+persons.
+
+_Question_. Were both these persons inspired by
+the same God?
+
+412
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. Why were the miracles recorded in the
+New Testament performed?
+
+_Answer_. The miracles were the evidence relied
+on to prove the supernatural origin and the divine
+mission of Jesus Christ.
+
+_Question_. Aside from the miracles, is there any
+evidence to show the supernatural origin or character
+of Jesus Christ?
+
+_Answer_. Some have considered that his moral
+precepts are sufficient, of themselves, to show that
+he was divine.
+
+_Question_. Had all of his moral precepts been
+taught before he lived?
+
+_Answer_. The same things had been said, but they
+did not have the same meaning.
+
+_Question_. Does the fact that Buddha taught the
+same tend to show that he was of divine origin?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not. The rules of evidence
+applicable to the Bible are not applicable to other
+books. We examine other books in the light of
+reason; the Bible is the only exception. So, we
+should not judge of Christ as we do of any other
+man.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Christ wrought
+
+413
+
+many of his miracles because he was good, charitable,
+and filled with pity?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly
+
+_Question_. Has he as much power now as he had
+when on earth?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. Is he as charitable and pitiful now, as
+he was then?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why does he not now cure the lame
+and the halt and the blind?
+
+_Answer_. It is well known that, when Julian the
+Apostate was dying, catching some of his own blood
+in his hand and throwing it into the air he exclaimed:
+"Galileean, thou hast conquered!"
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it our duty to love our
+neighbor?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Is virtue the same in all worlds?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. Are we under obligation to render good
+for evil, and to "pray for those who despitefully use us"?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Will Christians in heaven love their
+neighbors?
+
+414
+
+_Answer_. Y es; if their neighbors are not in hell.
+
+_Question_. Do good Christians pity sinners in this
+world?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why?
+
+_Answer_. Because they regard them as being in
+great danger of the eternal wrath of God.
+
+_Question_. After these sinners have died, and
+been sent to hell, will the Christians in heaven then
+pity them?
+
+_Answer_. No. Angels have no pity.
+
+_Question_. If we are under obligation to love our
+enemies, is not God under obligation to love his?
+If we forgive our enemies, ought not God to forgive
+his? If we forgive those who injure us, ought not
+God to forgive those who have not injured him?
+
+_Answer_. God made us, and he has therefore the
+right to do with us as he pleases. Justice demands
+that he should damn all of us, and the few that he
+will save will be saved through mercy and without
+the slightest respect to anything they may have done
+themselves. Such is the justice of God, that those
+in hell will have no right to complain, and those in
+heaven will have no right to be there. Hell is justice,
+and salvation is charity.
+
+415
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it possible for a law to
+be jusdy satisfied by the punishment of an innocent
+person?
+
+_Answer_. Such is the scheme of the atonement.
+As man is held responsible for the sin of Adam, so
+he will be credited with the virtues of Christ; and
+you can readily see that one is exactly as reasonable
+as the other.
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man honestly reads the New
+Testament, and honestly concludes that it is not an
+inspired book; suppose he honestly makes up his
+mind that the miracles are not true; that the devil
+never really carried Christ to the pinnacle of the
+temple; that devils were really never cast out of a
+man and allowed to take refuge in swine;--I say,
+suppose that he is honestly convinced that these
+things are not true, what ought he to say?
+
+_Answer_. He ought to say nothing.
+
+_Question_. Suppose that the same man should read
+the Koran, and come to the conclusion that it is not
+an inspired book; what ought he to say?
+
+_Answer_. He ought to say that it is not inspired;
+his fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and
+it is his duty to do what he can do to destroy a per-
+nicious superstition.
+
+416
+
+_Question_. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible,
+having become convinced that it is not inspired--
+honestly convinced--says nothing--keeps his con-
+clusion absolutely to himself, and suppose he dies in
+that belief, can he be saved?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not.
+
+_Question_. Has the honesty of his belief anything
+to do with his future condition?
+
+_Answer_. Nothing whatever.,
+
+_Question_. Suppose that he tried to believe, that
+he hated to disagree with his friends, and with his
+parents, but that in spite of himself he was forced to
+the conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word
+of God, would he then deserve eternal punishment?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly he would.
+
+_Question_. Can a man control his belief?
+
+_Answer_. He cannot--except as to the Bible.
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it just in God to
+create a man who cannot believe the Bible, and then
+damn him because he does not?
+
+_Answer_. Such is my belief.
+
+_Question_. Is it your candid opinion that a man
+who does not believe the Bible should keep his
+belief a secret from his fellow-men?
+
+_Answer_. It is.
+
+417
+
+_Question_. How do I know that you believe the
+Bible? You have told me that if you did not be-
+lieve it, you would not tell me?
+
+_Answer_. There is no way for you to ascertain,
+except by taking my word for it.
+
+_Question_. What will be the fate of a man who
+does not believe it, and yet pretends to believe it?
+
+_Answer_. He will be damned.
+
+_Question_. Then hypocrisy will not save him?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. And if he does not believe it, and ad-
+mits that he does not believe it, then his honesty will
+not save him?
+
+_Answer_. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no
+better than hypocrisy on the right side.
+
+_Question_. Do we know who wrote the gospels?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; we do.
+
+_Question_. Are we absolutely sure who wrote
+them?
+
+_Answer_. Of course; we have the evidence as it
+has come to us through the Catholic Church.
+
+_Question_. Can we rely upon the Catholic Church
+now?
+
+_Answer_. No; assuredly no! But we have the
+testimony of Polycarp and Irenæus and Clement,
+
+418
+
+and others of the early fathers, together with that of
+the Christian historian, Eusebius.
+
+_Question_. What do we really know about Polycarp?
+
+_Answer_. We know that he suffered martyrdom un-
+der Marcus Aurelius, and that for quite a time the fire
+refused to burn his body, the flames arching over him,
+leaving him in a kind of fiery tent; and we also know
+that from his body came a fragrance like frankincense,
+and that the Pagans were so exasperated at seeing
+the miracle, that one of them thrust a sword through
+the body of Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and
+extinguished the flames and that out of the wound
+flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a dove.
+
+_Question_. Is that all we know about Polycarp?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, with the exception of a few more
+like incidents.
+
+_Question_. Do we know that Polycarp ever met
+St. John?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; Eusebius says so.
+
+_Question_. Are we absolutely certain that he ever
+lived?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, or Eusebius could not have written
+about him.
+
+_Question_. Do we know anything of the character
+of Eusebius?
+
+419
+
+_Answer_. Yes; we know that he was untruthful
+only when he wished to do good. But God can use
+even the dishonest. Other books have to be sub-
+stantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of
+God, that he can establish the inspiration of the Bible
+by the most untruthful witnesses. If God's witnesses
+were honest, anybody could believe, and what be-
+comes of faith, one of the greatest virtues?
+
+_Question_. Is the New Testament now the same as
+it was in the days of the early fathers?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not. Many books now thrown
+out, and not esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed
+divine by Polycarp and Irenæus and Clement and
+many of the early churches. These books are now
+called "apocryphal."
+
+_Question_. Have you not the same witnesses in
+favor of their authenticity, that you have in favor of
+the gospels?
+
+_Answer_. Precisely the same. Except that they
+were thrown out.
+
+_Question_. Why were they thrown out?
+
+_Answer_. Because the Catholic Church did not es-
+teem them inspired.
+
+_Question_. Did the Catholics decide for us which
+are the true gospels and which are the true epistles?
+
+420
+
+_Answer_. Yes. The Catholic Church was then the
+only church, and consequently must have been the
+true church.
+
+_Question_. How did the Catholic Church select the
+true books?
+
+_Answer_. Councils were called, and votes were
+taken, very much as we now pass resolutions in
+political meetings.
+
+_Question_. Was the Catholic Church infallible then?
+
+_Answer_. It was then, but it is not now.
+
+_Question_. If the Catholic Church at that time
+had thrown out the book of Revelation, would it
+now be our duty to believe that book to have been
+inspired?
+
+_Answer_. No, I suppose not.
+
+_Question_. Is it not true that some of these books
+were adopted by exceedingly small majorities?
+
+_Answer_. It is.
+
+_Question_. If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to
+the Romans, and the book of Revelation had been
+thrown out, could a man now be saved who honestly
+believes the rest of the books?
+
+_Answer_. This is doubtful.
+
+_Question_. Were the men who picked out the in-
+spired books inspired?
+
+421
+
+_Answer_. We cannot tell, but the probability is
+that they were.
+
+_Question_. Do we know that they picked out the
+right ones?
+
+_Answer_. Well, not exactly, but we believe that
+they did.
+
+_Question_. Are we certain that some of the books
+that were thrown out were not inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Well, the only way to tell is to read
+them carefully.
+
+_Question_. If upon reading these apocryphal books
+a man concludes that they are not inspired, will he be
+damned for that reason?
+
+_Answer_. No. Certainly not.
+
+_Question_. If he concludes that some of them are
+inspired, and believes them, will he then be damned
+for that belief?
+
+_Answer_. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for
+believing too much.
+
+_Question_. Does the fact that the books now com-
+prising the New Testament were picked out by the
+Catholic Church prevent their being examined now
+by an honest man, as they were examined at the time
+they were picked out?
+
+422
+
+_Answer_. No; not if the man comes to the con-
+clusion that they are inspired.
+
+_Question_. Does the fact that the Catholic Church
+picked them out and declared them to be inspired,
+render it a crime to examine them precisely as you
+would examine the books that the Catholic Church
+threw out and declared were not inspired?
+
+_Answer_. I think it does.
+
+_Question_. At the time the council was held in which
+it was determined which of the books of the New
+Testament are inspired, a respectable minority voted
+against some that were finally decided to be inspired.
+If they were honest in the vote they gave, and died
+without changing their opinions, are they now in hell?
+
+_Answer_. Well, they ought to be.
+
+_Question_. If those who voted to leave the book
+of Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of
+Saint John out of the canon, believed honestly that
+these were not inspired books, how should they have
+voted?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose a man ought to vote as
+he honestly believes--except in matters of religion.
+
+_Question_. If the Catholic Church was not infal-
+lible, is the question still open as to what books are,
+and what are not, inspired?
+
+423
+
+_Answer_. I suppose the question is still open--
+but it would be dangerous to decide it.
+
+_Question_. If, then, I examine all the books again,
+and come to the conclusion that some that were
+thrown out were inspired, and some that were ac-
+cepted were not inspired, ought I to say so?
+
+_Answer_. Not if it is contrary to the faith of your
+father, or calculated to interfere with your own po-
+litical prospects.
+
+_Question_. Is it as great a sin to admit into the
+Bible books that are uninspired as to reject those
+that are inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Well, it is a crime to reject an inspired
+book, no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is
+for its inspiration, but it is not a crime to receive an
+uninspired book. God damns nobody for believing
+too much. An excess of credulity is simply to err in
+the direction of salvation.
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira-
+tion of the New Testament--believes it to be entirely
+the work of uninspired men; and suppose he also be-
+lieves--but not from any evidence obtained in the New
+Testament--that Jesus Christ was the son of God, and
+that he made atonement for his soul, can he then be
+saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?
+
+424
+
+_Answer_. This has not yet been decided by
+our church, and I do not wish to venture an
+opinion.
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man denies the inspiration
+of the Scriptures; suppose that he also denies the
+divinity of Jesus Christ; and suppose, further, that
+he acts precisely as Christ is said to have acted;
+suppose he loves his enemies, prays for those who
+despitefully use him, and does all the good he pos-
+sibly can, is it your opinion that such a man will be
+saved?
+
+_Answer_. No, sir. There is "none other name
+"given under heaven and among men," whereby a
+sinner can be saved but the name of Christ.
+
+_Question_. Then it is your opinion that God
+would save a murderer who believed in Christ, and
+would damn another man, exactly like Christ, who
+failed to believe in him?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; because we have the blessed
+promise that, out of Christ, "our God is a consuming
+"fire."
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man read the Bible care-
+fully and honestly, and was not quite convinced that
+it was true, and that while examining the subject, he
+died; what then?
+
+425
+
+_Answer_. I do not believe that God would allow
+him to examine the matter in another world, or to
+make up his mind in heaven. Of course, he would
+eternally perish.
+
+_Question_. Could Christ now furnish evidence
+enough to convince every human being of the truth
+of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he could, because he is in-
+finite.
+
+_Question_. Are any miracles performed now?
+
+_Answer_. Oh, no!
+
+_Question_. Have we any testimony, except human
+testimony, to substantiate any miracle?
+
+_Answer_. Only human testimony.
+
+_Question_. Do all men give the same force to the
+same evidence?
+
+_Answer_. By no means.
+
+_Question_. Have all honest men who have exam-
+ined the Bible believed it to be inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they have. Infidels are not
+honest.
+
+_Question_. Could any additional evidence have
+been furnished?
+
+_Answer_. With perfect ease.
+
+_Question_. Would God allow a soul to suffer
+
+426
+
+eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the
+truth of his Bible?
+
+_Answer_. God has furnished plenty of evidence,
+and altogether more than was really necessary. We
+should read the Bible in a believing spirit.
+
+_Question_. Are all parts of the inspired books
+equally true?
+
+_Answer_. Necessarily.
+
+_Question_. According to Saint Matthew, God
+promises to forgive all who will forgive others; not
+one word is said about believing in Christ, or believ-
+ing in the miracles, or in any Bible; did Matthew tell
+the truth?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible must be taken as a whole;
+and if other conditions are added somewhere else,
+then you must comply with those other conditions.
+Matthew may not have stated all the conditions.
+
+_Question_. I find in another part of the New
+Testament, that a young man came to Christ and
+asked him what was necessary for him to do in order
+that he might inherit eternal life. Christ did not tell
+him that he must believe the Bible, or that he must
+believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbath-
+day; was Christ honest with that young man?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose he was.
+
+427
+
+_Question_. You will also recollect that Zaccheus
+said to Christ, that where he had wronged any man
+he had made restitution, and further, that half his
+goods he had given to the poor; and you will re-
+member that Christ said to Zaccheus: "This day
+"hath salvation come to thy house." Why did not
+Christ tell Zaccheus that he "must be born again;"
+that he must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"?
+
+_Answer_. Of course there are mysteries in our
+holy religion that only those who have been "born
+"again" can understand. You must remember that
+"the carnal mind is enmity with God."
+
+_Question_. Is it not strange that Christ, in his Ser-
+mon on the Mount, did not speak of "regeneration,"
+or of the "scheme of salvation"?
+
+_Answer_. Well, it may be.
+
+_Question_. Can a man be saved now by living
+exactly in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?
+
+_Answer_. He can not.
+
+_Question_. Would then a man, by following the
+course of conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon
+on the Mount, lose his soul?
+
+_Answer_. He most certainly would, because there
+is not one word in the Sermon on the Mount about
+believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; not one word
+
+428
+
+about believing in the Bible; not one word about the
+"atonement;" not one word about "regeneration."
+So that, if the Presbyterian Church is right, it is abso-
+lutely certain that a man might follow the teachings
+of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in accordance
+with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the
+eternal condemnation of God. But we must remem-
+ber that the Sermon on the Mount was preached be-
+fore Christianity existed. Christ was talking to Jews.
+
+_Question_. Did Christ write anything himself, in
+the New Testament?
+
+_Answer_. Not a word.
+
+_Question_. Did he tell any of his disciples to write
+any of his words?
+
+_Answer_. There is no account of it, if he did.
+
+_Question_. Do we know whether any of the dis-
+ciples wrote anything?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they did.
+
+_Question_. How do you know?
+
+_Answer_. Because the gospels bear their names.
+
+_Question_. Are you satisfied that Christ was abso-
+lutely God?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was. We believe that
+Christ and God and the Holy Ghost are all the same,
+that the three form one, and that each one is three.
+
+429
+
+_Question_. Was Christ the God of the universe at
+the time of his birth?
+
+_Answer_. He certainly was.
+
+_Question_. Was he the infinite God, creator
+and controller of the entire universe, before he was
+born?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was. This is the mystery
+of "God manifest in the flesh." The infidels have
+pretended that he was like any other child, and was
+in fact supported by Nature instead of being the
+supporter of Nature. They have insisted that like
+other children, he had to be cared for by his mother.
+Of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother.
+It was a part of the plan that in all respects he should
+appear to be like other children.
+
+_Question_. Did he know just as much before he
+was born as after?
+
+_Answer_. If he was God of course he did.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the fact that
+Saint Luke tells us, in the last verse of the second
+chapter of his gospel, that "Jesus increased in wis-
+"dom and stature"?
+
+_Answer_. That I presume is a figure of speech;
+because, if he was God, he certainly could not have
+increased in wisdom. The physical part of him could
+
+430
+
+increase in stature, but the intellectual part must have
+been infinite all the time.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?
+
+_Answer_. No; I believe what Luke said. If it
+appears untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is
+figurative or symbolical.
+
+_Question_. Did I understand you to say that Christ
+was actually God?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was.
+
+_Question_. Then why did Luke say in the same
+verse of the same chapter that "Jesus increased in
+"favor with God"?
+
+_Answer_. I dare you to go into a room by your-
+self and read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John!
+
+_Question_. Is it necessary to understand the Bible
+in order to be saved?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not; it is only necessary that
+you believe it.
+
+_Question_. Is it necessary to believe all the
+miracles?
+
+_Answer_. It may not be necessary, but as it is im-
+possible to tell which ones can safely be left out, you
+had better believe them all.
+
+_Question_. Then you regard belief as the safe
+way?
+
+431
+
+_Answer_. Of course it is better to be fooled in this
+world than to be damned in the next.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that there are any cruel-
+ties on God's part recorded in the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. At first flush, many things done by God
+himself, as well as by his prophets, appear to be
+cruel; but if we examine them closely, we will find
+them to be exactly the opposite.
+
+_Question_. How do you explain the story of Elisha
+and the children,--where the two she-bears destroyed
+forty-two children on account of their impudence?
+
+_Answer_. This miracle, in my judgment, estab-
+lishes two things: 1. That children should be polite
+to ministers, and 2. That God is kind to animals--
+"giving them their meat in due season." These
+bears have been great educators--they are the
+foundation of the respect entertained by the young
+for theologians. No child ever sees a minister now
+without thinking of a bear.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the story of
+Daniel--you no doubt remember it? Some men
+told the king that Daniel was praying contrary to
+law, and thereupon Daniel was cast into a den of
+lions; but the lions could not touch him, their
+mouths having been shut by angels. The next
+
+432
+
+morning, the king, finding that Daniel was still
+intact, had him taken out; and then, for the purpose
+of gratifying Daniels God, the king had all the men
+who had made the complaint against Daniel, and
+their wives and their little children, brought and cast
+into the lions' den. According to the account, the
+lions were so hungry that they caught these wives
+and children as they dropped, and broke all their
+bones in pieces before they had even touched the
+ground. Is it not wonderful that God failed to pro-
+tect these innocent wives and children?
+
+_Answer_. These wives and children were heathen;
+they were totally depraved. And besides, they were
+used as witnesses. The fact that they were devoured
+with such quickness shows that the lions were
+hungry. Had it not been for this, infidels would
+have accounted for the safety of Daniel by saying
+that the lions had been fed.
+
+_Question_. Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach
+and Abednego were cast "into a burning fiery furnace
+"heated one seven times hotter than it was wont to
+"be heated," and that they had on "their coats, their
+"hosen and their hats," and that when they came
+out "not a hair of their heads was singed, nor was
+"the smell of fire upon their garments"?
+
+433
+
+_Answer_. The evidence of this miracle is exceed-
+ingly satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of
+Nebuchadnezzar.
+
+_Question_. How do you know he was converted?
+
+_Answer_. Because immediately after the miracle
+the king issued a decree that "every people, nation
+"and language that spoke anything amiss against
+"the God of Shadrach and Company, should be cut
+"in pieces." This decree shows that he had become
+a true disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.
+
+_Question_. If God in those days preserved from
+the fury of the fire men who were true to him and
+would not deny his name, why is it that he has failed
+to protect thousands of martyrs since that time?
+
+_Answer_. This is one of the divine mysteries.
+God has in many instances allowed his enemies to
+kill his friends. I suppose this was allowed for the
+good of his enemies, that the heroism of the mar-
+tyrs might convert them.
+
+_Question_. Do you believe all the miracles?
+
+_Answer_. I believe them all, because I believe the
+Bible to be inspired.
+
+_Question_. What makes you think it is inspired?
+
+_Answer_. I have never seen anybody who knew
+it was not; besides, my father and mother believed it.
+
+434
+
+_Question_. Have you any other reasons for be-
+lieving it to be inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; there are more copies of the Bible
+printed than of any other book; and it is printed in
+more languages. And besides, it would be impossible
+to get along without it.
+
+_Question_. Why could we not get along without it?
+
+_Answer_. We would have nothing to swear wit-
+nesses by; no book in which to keep the family
+record; nothing for the centre-table, and nothing for
+a mother to give her son. No nation can be civilized
+without the Bible.
+
+_Question_. Did God always know that a Bible was
+necessary to civilize a country?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly he did.
+
+_Question_. Why did he not give a Bible to
+the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and the
+Romans?
+
+_Answer_. It is astonishing what perfect fools in-
+fidels are.
+
+_Question_. Why do you call infidels "fools"?
+
+_Answer_. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the
+gospel according to Matthew the following: "Who-
+"soever shall say 'Thou fool!' shall be in danger of
+"hell fire."
+
+435
+
+_Question_. Have I the right to read the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Yes. You not only have the right, but
+it is your duty.
+
+_Question_. In reading the Bible the words make
+certain impressions on my mind. These impressions
+depend upon my brain,--upon my intelligence. Is
+not this true?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, when you read the Bible, im-
+pressions are made upon your mind.
+
+_Question_. Can I control these impressions?
+
+_Answer_. I do not think you can, as long as you
+remain in a sinful state.
+
+_Question_. How am I to get out of this sinful state?
+
+_Answer_. You must believe on the Lord Jesus
+Christ, and you must read the Bible in a prayerful
+spirit and with a believing heart.
+
+_Question_. Suppose that doubts force themselves
+upon my mind?
+
+_Answer_. Then you will know that you are a sin-
+ner, and that you are depraved.
+
+_Question_. If I have the right to read the Bible,
+have I the right to try to understand it?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. Do you admit that I have the right to
+reason about it and to investigate it?
+
+436
+
+_Answer_. Yes; I admit that. Of course you can-
+not help reasoning about what you read.
+
+_Question_. Does the right to read a book include
+the right to give your opinion as to the truth of what
+the book contains?
+
+_Answer_. Of course,--if the book is not inspired.
+Infidels hate the Bible because it is inspired, and
+Christians know that it is inspired because infidels
+say that it is not.
+
+_Question_. Have I the right to decide for myself
+whether or not the book is inspired?
+
+_Answer_. You have no right to deny the truth of
+God's Holy Word.
+
+_Question_. Is God the author of all books?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not.
+
+_Question_. Have I the right to say that God did
+not write the Koran?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why?
+
+_Answer_. Because the Koran was written by an
+impostor.
+
+_Question_. How do you know?
+
+_Answer_. My reason tells me so.
+
+_Question_. Have you the right to be guided by
+your reason?
+
+437
+
+_Answer_. I must be.
+
+_Question_. Have you the same right to follow your
+reason after reading the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. No. The Bible is the standard of reason.
+The Bible is not to be judged or corrected by your
+reason. Your reason is to be weighed and measured
+by the Bible. The Bible is different from other
+books and must not be read in the same critical spirit,
+nor judged by the same standard.
+
+_Question_. What did God give us reason for?
+
+_Answer_. So that we might investigate other
+religions, and examine other so-called sacred books.
+
+_Question_. If a man honestly thinks that the Bible
+is not inspired, what should he say?
+
+_Answer_. He should admit that he is mistaken.
+
+_Question_. When he thinks he is right?
+
+_Answer_. Yes. The Bible is different from other
+books. It is the master of reason. You read the
+Bible, not to see if that is wrong, but to see
+whether your reason is right. It is the only book
+about which a man has no right to reason. He must
+believe. The Bible is addressed, not to the reason,
+but to the ears: "He that hath ears to hear, let
+"him hear."
+
+_Question_. Do you think we have the right to tell
+
+438
+
+what the Bible means--what ideas God intended to
+convey, or has conveyed to us, through the medium
+of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose you have that right.
+Yes, that must be your duty. You certainly ought
+to tell others what God has said to you.
+
+_Question_. Do all men get the same ideas from
+the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for that?
+
+_Answer_. Because all men are not alike; they
+differ in intellect, in education, and in experience.
+
+_Question_. Who has the right to decide as to the
+real ideas that God intended to convey?
+
+_Answer_. I am a Protestant, and believe in the
+right of private judgment. Whoever does not is a
+Catholic. Each man must be his own judge, but God
+will hold him responsible.
+
+_Question_. Does God believe in the right of private
+judgment?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he does.
+
+_Question_. Is he willing that I should exercise my
+judgment in deciding whether the Bible is inspired or
+not?
+
+_Answer_. No. He believes in the exercise of
+
+439
+
+private judgment only in the examination and rejec-
+tion of other books than the Bible.
+
+_Question_. Is he a Catholic?
+
+_Answer_. I cannot answer blasphemy! Let me
+tell you that God will "laugh at your calamity, and
+"will mock when your fear cometh." You will be
+accursed.
+
+_Question_. Why do you curse infidels?
+
+_Answer_. Because I am a Christian.
+
+_Question_. Did not Christ say that we ought to
+"bless those who curse us," and that we should
+"love our enemies"?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, but he cursed the Pharisees and
+called them "hypocrites" and "vipers."
+
+_Question_. How do you account for that?
+
+_Answer_. It simply shows the difference between
+theory and practice.
+
+_Question_. What do you consider the best way to
+answer infidels.
+
+_Answer_. The old way is the best. You should
+say that their arguments are ancient, and have been
+answered over and over again. If this does not
+satisfy your hearers, then you should attack the
+character of the infidel--then that of his parents--
+then that of his children.
+
+440
+
+_Question_. Suppose that the infidel is a good man,
+how will you answer him then?
+
+_Answer_. But an infidel cannot be a good man.
+Even if he is, it is better that he should lose his
+reputation, than that thousands should lose their
+souls. We know that all infidels are vile and infa-
+mous. We may not have the evidence, but we know
+that it exists.
+
+_Question_. How should infidels be treated? Should
+Christians try to convert them?
+
+_Answer_. Christians should have nothing to do
+with infidels. It is not safe even to converse with
+them. They are always talking about reason, and
+facts, and experience. They are filled with sophistry
+and should be avoided.
+
+_Question_. Should Christians pray for the con-
+version of infidels?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; but such prayers should be made
+in public and the name of the infidel should be given
+and his vile and hideous heart portrayed so that the
+young may be warned.
+
+_Question_. Whom do you regard as infidels?
+
+_Answer_. The scientists--the geologists, the as-
+tronomers, the naturalists, the philosophers. No one
+can overestimate the evil that has been wrought
+
+441
+
+by Laplace, Humboldt, Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel,
+Renan, Emerson, Strauss, Bikhner, Tyndall, and
+their wretched followers. These men pretended to
+know more than Moses and the prophets. They
+were "dogs baying at the moon." They were
+"wolves" and "fools." They tried to "assassinate
+"God," and worse than all, they actually laughed
+at the clergy,
+
+_Question_. Do you think they did, and are doing
+great harm?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. Of what use are all the
+sciences, if you lose your own soul? People in hell
+will care nothing about education. The rich man
+said nothing about science, he wanted water.
+Neither will they care about books and theories
+in heaven. If a man is perfectly happy, it makes
+no difference how ignorant he is.
+
+_Question_. But how can he answer these scientists?
+
+_Answer_. Well, my advice is to let their argu-
+ments alone. Of course, you will deny all their
+facts; but the most effective way is to attack their
+character.
+
+_Question_. But suppose they are good men,--
+what then?
+
+_Answer_. The better they are, the worse they are.
+
+442
+
+We cannot admit that the infidel is really good. He
+may appear to be good, and it is our duty to strip
+the mask of appearance from the face of unbelief. If
+a man is not a Christian, he is totally depraved, and
+why should we hesitate to make a misstatement
+about a man whom God is going to make miserable
+forever?
+
+_Question_. Are we not commanded to love our
+enemies?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, but not the enemies of God.
+
+_Question_. Do you fear the final triumph of infi-
+delity?
+
+_Answer_. No. We have no fear. We believe
+that the Bible can be revised often enough to agree
+with anything that may really be necessary to the
+preservation of the church. We can always rely
+upon revision. Let me tell you that the Bible is the
+most peculiar of books. At the time God inspired his
+holy prophets to write it, he knew exactly what the
+discoveries and demonstrations of the future would
+be, and he wrote his Bible in such a way that the
+words could always be interpreted in accordance with
+the intelligence of each age, and so that the words
+used are capable of several meanings, so that, no
+matter what may hereafter be discovered, the Bible
+
+443
+
+will be found to agree with it,--for the reason that
+the knowledge of Hebrew will grow in the exact
+proportion that discoveries are made in other depart-
+ments of knowledge. You will therefore see, that all
+efforts of infidelity to destroy the Bible will simply
+result in giving a better translation.
+
+_Question_. What do you consider is the strongest
+argument in favor of the inspiration of the Scrip-
+tures?
+
+_Answer_. The dying words of Christians.
+
+_Question_. What do you consider the strongest
+argument against the truth of infidelity?
+
+_Answer_. The dying words of infidels. You know
+how terrible were the death-bed scenes of Hume,
+Voltaire, Paine and Hobbes, as described by hundreds
+of persons who were not present; while all Christians
+have died with the utmost serenity, and with their
+last words have testified to the sustaining power of
+faith in the goodness of God.
+
+_Question_. What were the last words of Jesus
+Christ?
+
+_Answer_. "My God, my God, why hast thou for-
+"saken me?"
+
+
+
+
+A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.
+
+
+_"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and
+authority of reason, is like administering
+medicine to the dead."--Thomas Paine._
+
+
+Peoria, October 8, 1877.
+
+To the Editor of the N Y. Observer:
+
+Sir: Last June in San Francisco, I offered a
+thousand dollars in gold--not as a wager, but as a
+gift--to any one who would substantiate the absurd
+story that Thomas Paine died in agony and fear,
+frightened by the clanking chains of devils. I also
+offered the same amount to any minister who would
+prove that Voltaire did not pass away as serenely as
+the coming of the dawn. Afterward I was informed
+that you had accepted the offer, and had called upon
+me to deposit the money. Acting upon this inform-
+ation, I sent you the following letter:
+
+Peoria, Ill., August 31st, 1877.
+
+To the Editor of the New York Observer:
+
+I have been informed that you accepted, in your
+paper, an offer made by me to any clergyman in
+San Francisco. That offer was, that I would pay
+
+448
+
+one thousand dollars in gold to any minister in that
+city who would prove that Thomas Paine died in
+terror because of religious opinions he had ex-
+pressed, or that Voltaire did not pass away serenely
+as the coming of the dawn.
+
+For many years religious journals and ministers
+have been circulating certain pretended accounts of
+the frightful agonies endured by Paine and Voltaire
+when dying; that these great men at the moment of
+death were terrified because they had given their
+honest opinions upon the subject of religion to their
+fellow-men. The imagination of the religious world
+has been taxed to the utmost in inventing absurd
+and infamous accounts of the last moments of these
+intellectual giants. Every Sunday school paper,
+thousands of idiotic tracts, and countless stupidities
+called sermons, have been filled with these calumnies.
+
+Paine and Voltaire both believed in God--both
+hoped for immortality--both believed in special
+providence. But both denied the inspiration of the
+Scriptures--both denied the divinity of Jesus Christ.
+While theologians most cheerfully admit that most
+murderers die without fear, they deny the possibility
+of any man who has expressed his disbelief in the
+inspiration of the Bible dying except in an agony of
+terror. These stories are used in revivals and in
+
+449
+
+Sunday schools, and have long been considered of
+great value.
+
+I am anxious that these slanders shall cease. I
+am desirous of seeing justice done, even at this late
+day, to the dead.
+
+For the purpose of ascertaining the evidence upon
+which these death-bed accounts really rest, I make
+to you the following proposition:--
+
+First.--As to Thomas Paine: I will deposit with
+the First National Bank of Peoria, Illinois, one thou-
+sand dollars in gold, upon the following conditions:
+This money shall be subject to your order when
+you shall, in the manner hereinafter provided, sub-
+stantiate that Thomas Paine admitted the Bible to be
+an inspired book, or that he recanted his Infidel
+opinions--or that he died regretting that he had dis-
+believed the Bible--or that he died calling upon
+Jesus Christ in any religious sense whatever.
+
+In order that a tribunal may be created to try this
+question, you may select one man, I will select
+another, and the two thus chosen shall select a third,
+and any two of the three may decide the matter.
+
+As there will be certain costs and expenditures on
+both sides, such costs and expenditures shall be paid
+by the defeated party.
+
+In addition to the one thousand dollars in gold, I
+
+450
+
+will deposit a bond with good and sufficient security
+in the sum of two thousand dollars, conditioned for
+the payment of all costs in case I am defeated. I
+shall require of you a like bond.
+
+From the date of accepting this offer you may
+have ninety days to collect and present your testi-
+mony, giving me notice of time and place of taking
+depositions. I shall have a like time to take evi-
+dence upon my side, giving you like notice, and you
+shall then have thirty days to take further testimony
+in reply to what I may offer. The case shall then
+be argued before the persons chosen; and their
+decisions shall be final as to us.
+
+If the arbitrator chosen by me shall die, I shall
+have the right to choose another. You shall have
+the same right. If the third one, chosen by our two,
+shall die, the two shall choose another; and all va-
+cancies, from whatever cause, shall be filled upon the
+same principle.
+
+The arbitrators shall sit when and where a major-
+ity shall determine, and shall have full power to pass
+upon all questions arising as to competency of
+evidence, and upon all subjects.
+
+_Second_.--As to Voltaire: I make the same prop-
+osition, if you will substantiate that Voltaire died
+expressing remorse or showing in any way that he
+
+451
+
+was in mental agony because he had attacked Catholi-
+cism--or because he had denied the inspiration of the
+Bible--or because he had denied the divinity of Christ.
+
+I make these propositions because I want you
+to stop slandering the dead.
+
+If the propositions do not suit you in any particu-
+lar, please state your objections, and I will modify
+them in any way consistent with the object in view.
+
+If Paine and Voltaire died filled with childish and
+silly fear, I want to know it, and I want the world to
+know it. On the other hand, if the believers in
+superstition have made and circulated these cruel
+slanders concerning the mighty dead, I want the
+world to know that.
+
+As soon as you notify me of the acceptance of
+these propositions I will send you the certificate of
+the bank that the money has been deposited upon
+the foregoing conditions, together with copies of
+bonds for costs. Yours truly,
+
+R. G. Ingersoll.
+
+In your paper of September 27, 1877, you acknowl-
+edge the receipt of the foregoing letter, and after
+giving an outline of its contents, say: "As not one
+of the affirmations, in the form stated in this letter,
+was contained in the offer we made, we have no
+occasion to substantiate them. But we are prepared
+
+452
+
+to produce the evidence of the truth of our own
+statement, and even to go further; to show not only
+that Tom Paine 'died a drunken, cowardly, and
+beastly death,' but that for many years previous, and
+up to that event he lived a drunken and beastly life."
+In order to refresh your memory as to what you
+had published, I call your attention to the following,
+which appeared in the N. Y. Observer, July 19, 1877:
+"Put Down the Money.
+
+"Col. Bob Ingersoll, in a speech full of ribaldry
+and blasphemy, made in San Francisco recently, said:
+"I will give $1,000 in gold coin to any clergyman
+who can substantiate that the death of Voltaire was
+not as peaceful as the dawn; and of Tom Paine whom
+they assert died in fear and agony, frightened by the
+clanking chains of devils--in fact frightened to death
+by God. I will give $1,000 likewise to any one who
+can substantiate this 'absurd story'--a story without
+a word of truth in it."
+
+"We have published the testimony, and the wit-
+nesses are on hand to prove that Tom Paine died a
+drunken, cowardly and beastly death. Let the Colo-
+nel deposit the money with any honest man, and the
+absurd story, as he terms it, shall be shown to be an
+ower true tale. But he wont do it. His talk is Infi-
+del 'buncombe' and nothing more."
+
+453
+
+On the 31st of August I sent you my letter, and
+on the 27th of September you say in your paper:
+"As not one of the affirmations in the form stated
+in this letter was contained in the offer we made, we
+have no occasion to substantiate them."
+
+What were the affirmations contained in the offer
+you made? I had offered a thousand dollars in gold
+to any one who would substantiate "the absurd story"
+that Thomas Paine died in fear and agony,frightened
+by the clanking chains of devils--in fact, frightened to
+death by God.
+
+In response to this offer you said: "Let the Colo-
+nel deposit the money with an honest man and the
+'absurd story' as he terms it, shall be shown to be
+an 'ower true tale.' But he won't do it. His talk
+is infidel 'buncombe' and nothing more."
+
+Did you not offer to prove that Paine died in fear
+and agony, frightened by the clanking chains of
+devils? Did you not ask me to deposit the money
+that you might prove the "absurd story" to be an
+"ower true tale" and obtain the money? Did you
+not in your paper of the twenty-seventh of September
+in effect deny that you had offered to prove this
+"absurd story"? As soon as I offered to deposit
+the gold and give bonds besides to cover costs, did
+you not publish a falsehood?
+
+454
+
+You have eaten your own words, and, for my
+part, I would rather have dined with Ezekiel than
+with you.
+
+You have not met the issue. You have know-
+ingly avoided it. The question was not as to the
+personal habits of Paine. The real question was
+and is, whether Paine was filled with fear and horror
+at the time of his death on account of his religious
+opinions. That is the question. You avoid this.
+In effect, you abandon that charge and make others.
+
+To you belongs the honor of having made the
+most cruel and infamous charges against Thomas
+Paine that have ever been made. Of what you
+have said you cannot prove the truth of one word.
+
+You say that Thomas Paine died a drunken,
+cowardly and beastly death.
+
+I pronounce this charge to be a cowardly and
+beastly falsehood.
+
+Have you any evidence that he was in a drunken
+condition when he died?
+
+What did he say or do of a cowardly character
+just before, or at about the time of his death?
+
+In what way was his death cowardly? You must
+answer these questions, and give your proof, or all
+honest men will hold you in abhorrence. You have
+made these charges. The man against whom you
+
+Vindication of thomas paine.
+
+455
+
+make them is dead. He cannot answer you. I
+can. He cannot compel you to produce your testi-
+mony, or admit by your silence that you have
+cruelly slandered the defenceless dead. I can and I
+will. You say that his death was cowardly. In
+what respect? Was it cowardly in him to hold the
+Thirty-Nine Articles in contempt? Was it cowardly
+not to call on your Lord? Was it cowardly not to
+be afraid? You say that his death was beastly.
+Again I ask, in what respect? Was it beastly to
+submit to the inevitable with tranquillity? Was it
+beastly to look with composure upon the approach
+of death? Was it beastly to die without a com-
+plaint, without a murmur--to pass from life without
+a fear?
+
+Did Thomas Paine Recant?
+
+Mr. Paine had prophesied that fanatics would
+crawl and cringe around him during his last mo-
+ments. He believed that they would put a lie in
+the mouth of Death.
+
+When the shadow of the coming dissolution was
+upon him, two clergymen, Messrs. Milledollar and
+Cunningham, called to annoy the dying man. Mr.
+Cunningham had the politeness to say, "You have
+now a full view of death you cannot live long, and
+whosoever does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ
+
+456
+
+will asuredly be damned." Mr. Paine replied, "Let
+me have none of your popish stuff. Get away with
+you. Good morning."
+
+On another occasion a Methodist minister ob-
+truded himself when Willet Hicks was present.
+This minister declared to Mr. Paine "that unless he
+repented of his unbelief he would be damned."
+Paine, although at the door of death, rose in his bed
+and indignantly requested the clergyman to leave
+his room. On another occasion, two brothers by
+the name of Pigott, sought to convert him. He was
+displeased and requested their departure. After-
+ward Thomas Nixon and Captain Daniel Pelton
+visited him for the express purpose of ascertaining
+whether he had, in any manner, changed his relig-
+ious opinions. They were assured by the dying
+man that he still held the principles he had expressed
+in his writings.
+
+Afterward, these gentlemen hearing that William
+Cobbett was about to write a life of Paine, sent him
+the following note:
+
+New York, April 24, 1818.
+
+"Sir: We have been informed that you have a de-
+sign to write a history of the life and writings of
+Thomas Paine. If you have been furnished with
+materials in respect to his religious opinions, or
+
+457
+
+rather of his recantation of his former opinions before
+his death, all you have heard of his recanting is false.
+Being aware that such reports would be raised after
+his death by fanatics who infested his house at the
+time it was expected he would die, we, the subscrib-
+ers, intimate acquaintances of Thomas Paine since
+the year 1776, went to his house. He was sitting
+up in a chair, and apparently in full vigor and use of
+all his mental faculties. We interrogated him upon
+his religious opinions, and if he had changed his
+mind, or repented of anything he had said or wrote
+on that subject. He answered, "Not at all," and
+appeared rather offended at our supposition that any
+change should take place in his mind. We took
+down in writing the questions put to him and his
+answers thereto before a number of persons then in
+his room, among whom were his doctor, Mrs.
+Bonneville, &c. This paper is mislaid and cannot
+be found at present, but the above is the substance
+which can be attested by many living witnesses."
+
+Thomas Nixon.
+
+Daniel Pelton.
+
+Mr. Jarvis, the artist, saw Mr. Paine one or two
+days before his death. To Mr. Jarvis he expressed
+his belief in his written opinions upon the subject of
+religion. B. F. Haskin, an attorney of the city of
+
+458
+
+New York, also visited him and inquired as to his
+religious opinions. Paine was then upon the thresh-
+old of death, but he did not tremble. He was not a
+coward. He expressed his firm and unshaken belief
+in the religious ideas he had given to the world.
+
+Dr. Manley was with him when he spoke his last
+words. Dr. Manley asked the dying man if he did
+not wish to believe that Jesus was the Son of God,
+and the dying philosopher answered: "I have no
+wish to believe on that subject." Amasa Woodsworth
+
+sat up with Thomas Paine the night before his
+death. In 1839 Gilbert Vale hearing that Mr.
+Woodsworth was living in or near Boston, visited
+him for the purpose of getting his statement. The
+statement was published in the Beacon of June 5,
+1839, while thousands who had been acquainted with
+Mr. Paine were living.
+
+The following is the article referred to.
+
+"We have just returned from Boston. One ob-
+ject of our visit to that city, was to see a Mr. Amasa
+Woodsworth, an engineer, now retired in a hand-
+some cottage and garden at East Cambridge, Boston.
+This gentleman owned the house occupied by Paine
+at his death--while he lived next door. As an act
+of kindness Mr. Woodsworth visited Mr. Paine every
+day for six weeks before his death. He frequently
+
+459
+
+sat up with him, and did so on the last two nights of
+his life. He was always there with Dr. Manley, the
+physician, and assisted in removing Mr. Paine while
+his bed was prepared. He was present when Dr.
+Manley asked Mr. Paine "if he wished to believe
+that Jesus Christ was the Son of God," and he de-
+scribes Mr. Paine's answer as animated. He says
+that lying on his back he used some action and with
+much emphasis, replied, "I have no wish to believe
+on that subject." He lived some time after this, but
+was not known to speak, for he died tranquilly. He
+accounts for the insinuating style of Dr. Manley's
+letter, by stating that that gentleman just after its
+publication joined a church. He informs us that he
+has openly reproved the doctor for the falsity con-
+tained in the spirit of that letter, boldly declaring be-
+fore Dr. Manley, who is yet living, that nothing
+which he saw justified the insinuations. Mr. Woods-
+worth assures us that he neither heard nor saw any-
+thing to justify the belief of any mental change in
+the opinions of Mr. Paine previous to his death; but
+that being very ill and in pain chiefly arising from
+the skin being removed in some parts by long lying,
+he was generally too uneasy to enjoy conversation
+on abstract subjects. This, then, is the best evidence
+that can be procured on this subject, and we publish
+
+460
+
+it while the contravening parties are yet alive, and
+with the authority of Mr. Woodsworth.
+
+Gilbert Vale.
+
+A few weeks ago I received the following letter
+which confirms the statement of Mr. Vale:
+
+Near Stockton, Cal., Green-
+wood Cottage, July 9, 1877.
+
+Col. Ingersoll: In 1842 I talked with a gentle-
+man in Boston. I have forgotten his name; but he was
+then an engineer of the Charleston navy yard. I am
+thus particular so that you can find his name on the
+books. He told me that he nursed Thomas Paine
+in his last illness, and closed his eyes when dead. I
+asked him if he recanted and called upon God to
+save him. He replied, "No. He died as he had
+taught. He had a sore upon his side and when we
+turned him it was very painful and he would cry out
+'O God!' or something like that." "But," said
+the narrator, "that was nothing, for he believed in a
+God." I told him that I had often heard it asserted
+from the pulpit that Mr. Paine had recanted in his
+last moments. The gentleman said that it was not
+true, and he appeared to be an intelligent, truthful
+man. With respect, I remain, &c.,
+
+Philip Graves, M. D.
+
+461
+
+The next witness is Willet Hicks, a Quaker
+preacher. He says that during the last illness of
+Mr. Paine he visited him almost daily, and that
+Paine died firmly convinced of the truth of the relig-
+ious opinions he had given to his fellow-men. It
+was to this same Willet Hicks that Paine applied for
+permission to be buried in the cemetery of the
+Quakers. Permission was refused. This refusal
+settles the question of recantation. If he had re-
+canted, of course there could have been no objection
+to his body being buried by the side of the best
+hypocrites on the earth.
+
+If Paine recanted why should he be denied "a
+little earth for charity"? Had he recanted, it
+would have been regarded as a vast and splendid
+triumph for the gospel. It would with much noise
+and pomp and ostentation have been heralded
+about the world.
+
+I received the following letter to-day. The
+writer is well know in this city, and is a man of
+high character:
+
+Peoria, Oct. 8th, 1877.
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll, Esteemed Friend: My
+parents were Friends (Quakers). My father died
+when I was very young. The elderly and middle-
+aged Friends visited at my mother's house. We
+
+462
+
+lived in the city of New York. Among the number
+I distinctly remember Elias Hicks, Willet Hicks,
+
+and a Mr.-Day, who was a bookseller in Pearl
+
+street. There were many others, whose names I
+do not now remember. The subject of the recanta-
+tion by Thomas Paine of his views about the Bible
+in his last illness, or at any other time, was dis-
+cussed by them in my presence at different times.
+I learned from them that some of them had attended
+upon Thomas Paine in his last sickness and minis-
+tered to his wants up to the time of his death.
+And upon the question of whether he did recant
+there was but one expression. They all said that
+he did not recant in any manner. I often heard
+them say they wished he had recanted. In fact,
+according to them, the nearer he approached death
+the more positive he appeared to be in his con-
+victions.
+
+These conversations were from 1820 to 1822. I
+was at that time from ten to twelve years old, but
+these conversations impressed themselves upon me
+because many thoughtless people then blamed the
+Society of Friends for their kindness to that "arch
+Infidel," Thomas Paine..
+
+Truly yours,
+
+A. C. Hankinson.
+
+463
+
+A few days ago I received the following letter:
+Albany, New York, Sept. 27, 1877.
+
+Dear Sir: It is over twenty years ago that pro-
+fessionally I made the acquaintance of John Hogeboom,
+
+a Justice of the Peace of the county of
+Rensselaer, New York. He was then over seventy
+years of age and had the reputation of being a man
+of candor and integrity. He was a great admirer of
+Paine. He told me that he was personally ac-
+quainted with him, and used to see him frequently
+during the last years of his life in the city of New
+York, where Hogeboom then resided. I asked him
+if there was any truth in the charge that Paine was
+in the habit of getting drunk. He said that it was
+utterly false; that he never heard of such a thing
+during the life-time of Mr. Paine, and did not believe
+any one else did. I asked him about the recantation
+of his religious opinions on his death-bed, and the
+revolting death-bed scenes that the world had heard
+so much about. He said there was no truth in
+them, that he had received his information from
+persons who attended Paine in his last illness, "and
+that he passed peacefully away, as we may say, in
+the sunshine of a great soul."...
+
+Yours truly,
+
+W. J. Hilton,
+
+464
+
+The witnesses by whom I substantiate the fact
+that Thomas Paine did not recant, and that he died
+holding the religious opinions he had published, are:
+First--Thomas Nixon, Captain Daniel Pelton,
+B. F. Haskin. These gentlemen visited him during
+his last illness for the purpose of ascertaining whether
+he had in any respect changed his views upon relig-
+ion. He told them that he had not.
+
+Second--James Cheetham. This man was the
+most malicious enemy Mr. Paine had, and yet he
+admits that "Thomas Paine died placidly, and al-
+most without a struggle." (See Life of Thomas
+Paine, by James Cheetham).
+
+Third--The ministers, Milledollar and Cunning-
+ham. These gentlemen told Mr. Paine that if he
+died without believing in the Lord Jesus Christ he
+would be damned, and Paine replied, "Let me have
+none of your popish stuff. Good morning." (See
+Sherwin's Life of Paine, p. 220).
+
+Fourth--Mrs. Hedden. She told these same
+preachers when they attempted to obtrude them-
+selves upon Mr. Paine again, that the attempt to
+convert Mr. Paine was useless--"that if God did not
+change his mind no human power could."
+
+Fifth--Andrew A. Dean. This man lived upon
+Paine's farm at New Rochelle, and corresponded
+
+465
+
+with him upon religious subjects. (See Paine's
+Theological Works, p. 308.)
+
+Sixth--Mr. Jarvis, the artist with whom Paine
+lived. He gives an account of an old lady coming
+to Paine and telling him that God Almighty had
+sent her to tell him that unless he repented and be-
+lieved in the blessed Savior, he would be damned.
+Paine replied that God would not send such a foolish
+old woman with such an impertinent message. (See
+Clio Rickman's Life of Paine.)
+
+Seventh--Wm. Carver, with whom Paine boarded.
+Mr. Carver said again and again that Paine did not
+recant. He knew him well, and had every opportun-
+ity of knowing. (See Life of Paine by Gilbert Vale.)
+
+Eighth--Dr. Manley, who attended him in his last
+sickness, and to whom Paine spoke his last words.
+Dr. Manley asked him if he did not wish to believe in
+Jesus Christ, and he replied, "I have no wish to
+believe on that subject."
+
+Ninth--Willet Hicks and Elias Hicks, who were
+with him frequently during his last sickness, and
+both of whom tried to persuade him to recant. Ac-
+cording to their testimony, Mr. Paine died as he had
+lived--a believer in God, and a friend of man.
+Willet Hicks was offered money to say something
+false against Thomas Paine. He was even offered
+
+466
+
+money to remain silent and allow others to slander
+the dead. Mr. Hicks, speaking of Thomas Paine,
+said: "He was a good man--an honest man."
+(Vale's Life of Paine.)
+
+Tenth--Amasa Woodsworth, who was with him
+every day for some six weeks immediately preceding
+his death, and sat up with him the last two nights of
+his life. This man declares that Paine did not recant
+and that he died tranquilly. The evidence of Mr.
+Woodsworth is conclusive.
+
+Eleventh--Thomas Paine himself. The will of
+Thomas Paine, written by himself, commences as
+follows:
+
+"The last will and testament of me, the subscriber,
+Thomas Paine, reposing confidence in my creator
+God, and in no other being, for I know of no other,
+nor believe in any other;" and closes in these words;
+"I have lived an honest and useful life to mankind;
+my time has been spent in doing good, and I die in
+perfect composure and resignation to the will of my
+creator God."
+
+Twelfth--If Thomas Paine recanted, why do you
+pursue him? If he recanted, he died substantially
+in your belief, for what reason then do you denounce
+his death as cowardly? If upon his death-bed he
+renounced the opinions he had published, the busi-
+
+467
+
+ness of defaming him should be done by Infidels, not
+by Christians.
+
+I ask you if it is honest to throw away the testi-
+mony of his friends--the evidence of fair and honor-
+able men--and take the putrid words of avowed and
+malignant enemies?
+
+When Thomas Paine was dying, he was infested
+by fanatics--by the snaky spies of bigotry. In the
+shadows of death were the unclean birds of prey
+waiting to tear with beak and claw the corpse of him
+who wrote the "Rights of Man." And there lurk-
+ing and crouching in the darkness were the jackals
+and hyenas of superstition ready to violate his grave.
+
+These birds of prey--these unclean beasts are the
+witnesses produced and relied upon by you.
+
+One by one the instruments of torture have been
+wrenched from the cruel clutch of the church, until
+within the armory of orthodoxy there remains but
+one weapon--Slander.
+
+Against the witnesses that I have produced you
+can bring just two--Mary Roscoe and Mary Hins-
+dale. The first is referred to in the memoir of
+Stephen Grellet. She had once been a servant in his
+house. Grellet tells what happened between this
+girl and Paine. According to this account Paine
+asked her if she had ever read any of his writings,
+
+468
+
+and on being told that she had read very little of
+them, he inquired what she thought of them, adding
+that from such an one as she he expected a correct
+answer.
+
+Let us examine this falsehood. Why would Paine
+expect a correct answer about his writings from one
+who had read very little of them? Does not such a
+statement devour itself? This young lady further
+said that the "Age of Reason" was put in her hands
+and that the more she read in it the more dark and
+distressed she felt, and that she threw the book into
+the fire. Whereupon Mr. Paine remarked, "I wish
+all had done as you did, for if the devil ever had any
+agency in any work, he had it in my writing that book."
+
+The next is Mary Hinsdale. She was a servant
+in the family of Willet Hicks. She, like Mary Ros-
+coe, was sent to carry some delicacy to Mr. Paine.
+To this young lady Paine, according to her account,
+said precisely the same that he did to Mary Roscoe,
+and she said the same thing to Mr. Paine.
+
+My own opinion is that Mary Roscoe and Mary
+Hinsdale are one and the same person, or the same
+story has been by mistake put in the mouth of both.
+
+It is not possible that the same conversation should
+have taken place between Paine and Mary Roscoe,
+and between him and Mary Hinsdale.
+
+469
+
+Mary Hinsdale lived with Willet Hicks and he
+pronounced her story a pious fraud and fabrication.
+He said that Thomas Paine never said any such
+thing to Mary Hinsdale. (See Vale's Life of
+Paine.)
+
+Another thing about this witness. A woman by
+the name of Mary Lockwood, a Hicksite Quaker,
+died. Mary Hinsdale met her brother about that
+time and told him that his sister had recanted, and
+wanted her to say so at her funeral. This turned
+out to be false.
+
+It has been claimed that Mary Hinsdale made her
+statement to Charles Collins. Long after the alleged
+occurrence Gilbert Vale, one of the biographers of
+Paine, had a conversation with Collins concerning
+Mary Hinsdale. Vale asked him what he thought
+of her. He replied that some of the Friends be-
+lieved that she used opiates, and that they did not
+give credit to her statements. He also said that he
+believed what the Friends said, but thought that
+when a young woman, she might have told the
+truth.
+
+In 1818 William Cobbett came to New York.
+He began collecting materials for a life of Thomas
+Paine. In this he became acquainted with Mary
+Hinsdale and Charles Collins. Mr. Cobbett gave a
+
+470
+
+full account of what happened in a letter addressed
+to the Norwich Mercury in 1819. From this ac-
+count it seems that Charles Collins told Cobbett that
+Paine had recanted. Cobbett called for the testi-
+mony, and told Mr. Collins that he must give time,
+place, and the circumstances. He finally brought a
+statement that he stated had been made by Mary
+Hinsdale. Armed with this document Cobbett, in
+October of that year, called upon the said Mary
+Hinsdale, at No. 10 Anthony street, New York, and
+showed her the statement. Upon being questioned
+by Mr. Cobbett she said, "That it was so long ago
+that she could not speak positively to any part of the
+matter--that she would not say that any part of the
+paper was true--that she had never seen the paper
+--and that she had never given Charles Collins
+authority to say anything about the matter in her
+name." And so in the month of October, in the
+year of grace 1818, in the mist and fog of forgetful-
+ness disappeared forever one Mary Hinsdale--the
+last and only witness against the intellectual honesty
+of Thomas Paine.
+
+_Did Thomas Paine live the life of a drunken beast,
+and did he die a drunken, cowardly and beastly death?_
+
+Upon you rests the burden of substantiating these
+infamous charges.
+
+471
+
+You have, I suppose, produced the best evidence
+in your possession, and that evidence I will now pro-
+ceed to examine. Your first witness is Grant Thor-
+burn. He makes three charges against Thomas
+Paine, 1st. That his wife obtained a divorce from
+him in England for cruelty and neglect. 2d. That
+he was a defaulter and fled from England to Amer-
+ica. 3d. That he was a drunkard.
+
+These three charges stand upon the same evidence
+--the word of Grant Thorburn. If they are not all
+true Mr. Thorburn stands impeached.
+
+The charge that Mrs. Paine obtained a divorce on
+account of the cruelty and neglect of her husband is
+utterly false. There is no such record in the world,
+and never was. Paine and his wife separated by
+mutual consent. Each respected the other. They
+remained friends. This charge is without any foun-
+dation in fact. I challenge the Christian world to
+produce the record of this decree of divorce. Accord-
+ing to Mr. Thorburn it was granted in England. In
+that country public records are kept of all such de-
+crees. Have the kindness to produce this decree
+showing that it was given on account of cruelty or
+admit that Mr. Thorburn was mistaken.
+
+Thomas Paine was a just man. Although sepa-
+rated from his wife, he always spoke of her with
+
+472
+
+tenderness and respect, and frequently sent her
+money without letting her know the source from
+whence it came. Was this the conduct of a drunken
+beast?
+
+The second charge, that Paine was a defaulter in
+England and fled to America, is equally false. He
+did not flee from England. He came to America,
+not as a fugitive, but as a free man. He came with
+a letter of introduction signed by another Infidel,
+Benjamin Franklin. He came as a soldier of Free-
+dom--an apostle of Liberty.
+
+In this second charge there is not one word of truth.
+
+He held a small office in England. If he was a
+defaulter the records of that country will show that
+fact.
+
+Mr. Thorburn, unless the record can be produced
+to substantiate him, stands convicted of at least two
+mistakes.
+
+Now, as to the third: He says that in 1802 Paine
+was an "old remnant of mortality, drunk, bloated
+and half asleep."
+
+Can any one believe this to be a true account of
+the personal appearance of Mr. Paine in 1802? He
+had just returned from France. He had been wel-
+comed home by Thomas Jefferson, who had said that
+he was entitled to the hospitality of every American.
+
+473
+
+In 1802 Mr. Paine was honored with a public din-
+ner in the city of New York. He was called upon
+and treated with kindness and respect by such men
+as DeWitt Clinton.
+
+In 1806 Mr. Paine wrote a letter to Andrew A.
+Dean upon the subject of religion. Read that letter
+and then say that the writer of it was an "old rem-
+nant of mortality, drunk, bloated and half asleep."
+Search the files of the New York Observer from the
+first issue to the last, and you will find nothing supe-
+rior to this letter.
+
+In 1803 Mr. Paine wrote a letter of considerable
+length, and of great force, to his friend Samuel
+Adams. Such letters are not written by drunken
+beasts, nor by remnants of old mortality, nor by
+drunkards. It was about the same time that he
+wrote his "Remarks on Robert Hall's Sermons."
+
+These "Remarks" were not written by a drunken
+beast, but by a clear-headed and thoughtful man.
+
+In 1804 he published an essay on the invasion of
+England, and a treatise on gunboats, full of valuable
+maritime information:--in 1805, a treatise on yellow
+fever, suggesting modes of prevention. In short, he
+was an industrious and thoughtful man. He sympa-
+thized with the poor and oppressed of all lands. He
+looked upon monarchy as a species of physical
+
+474
+
+slavery. He had the goodness to attack that form
+of government. He regarded the religion of his day
+as a kind of mental slavery. He had the courage to
+give his reasons for his opinion. His reasons filled
+the churches with hatred. Instead of answering his
+arguments they attacked him. Men who were not
+fit to blacken his shoes, blackened his character.
+
+There is too much religious cant in the statement
+of Mr. Thorburn. He exhibited too much anxiety
+to tell what Grant Thorburn said to Thomas Paine.
+He names Thomas Jefferson as one of the disreputa-
+ble men who welcomed Paine with open arms. The
+testimony of a man who regarded Thomas Jefferson
+as a disreputable person, as to the character of any-
+body, is utterly without value. In my judgment, the
+testimony of Mr. Thorburn should be thrown aside
+as wholly unworthy of belief.
+
+Your next witness is the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.
+D., who tells what an elder in his church said. This
+elder said that Paine passed his last days on his farm
+at New Rochelle with a solitary female attendant.
+This is not true. He did not pass his last days at
+New Rochelle. Consequently this pious elder did
+not see him during his last days at that place. Upon
+this elder we prove an alibi. Mr. Paine passed his
+last days in the city of New York, in a house upon
+
+475
+
+Columbia street. The story of the Rev. J. D. Wick-
+ham, D.D., is simply false.
+
+The next competent false witness is the Rev.
+Charles Hawley, D.D., who proceeds to state that
+the story of the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.D., is cor-
+roborated by older citizens of New Rochelle. The
+names of these ancient residents are withheld. Ac-
+cording to these unknown witnesses, the account
+given by the deceased elder was entirely correct.
+But as the particulars of Mr. Paine's conduct "were
+too loathsome to be described in print," we are left
+entirely in the dark as to what he really did.
+
+While at New Rochelle Mr. Paine lived with Mr.
+Purdy--with Mr. Dean--with Captain Pelton, and
+with Mr. Staple. It is worthy of note that all of
+these gentlemen give the lie direct to the statements
+of "older residents" and ancient citizens spoken of
+by the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D., and leave him
+with his "loathsome particulars" existing only in his
+own mind.
+
+The next gentleman you bring upon the stand is
+W. H. Ladd, who quotes from the memoirs of
+Stephen Grellet. This gentleman also has the mis-
+fortune to be dead. According to his account, Mr.
+Paine made his recantation to a servant girl of his
+by the name of Mary Roscoe. To this girl, accord-
+
+476
+
+ing to the account, Mr. Paine uttered the wish that
+all who read his book had burned it. I believe there
+is a mistake in the name of this girl. Her name was
+probably Mary Hinsdale, as it was once claimed that
+Paine made the same remark to her, but this point
+I shall notice hereafter. These are your witnesses,
+and the only ones you bring forward, to support
+your charge that Thomas Paine lived a drunken and
+beastly life and died a drunken, cowardly and beastly
+death. All these calumnies are found in a life of
+Paine by a Mr. Cheetham, the convicted libeler
+already referred to. Mr. Cheetham was an enemy
+of the man whose life he pretended to write.
+
+In order to show you the estimation in which Mr.
+Cheetham was held by Mr. Paine, I will give you a
+copy of a letter that throws light upon this point:
+
+October 28, 1807.
+
+"Mr. Cheetham: Unless you make a public apol-
+ogy for the abuse and falsehood in your paper of
+Tuesday, October 27th, respecting me, I will prose-
+cute you for lying."
+
+Thomas Paine.
+
+In another letter, speaking of this same man, Mr.
+Paine says: "If an unprincipled bully cannot be re-
+formed, he can be punished." "Cheetham has been
+so long in the habit of giving false information, that
+truth is to him like a foreign language."
+
+477
+
+Mr. Cheetham wrote the life of Paine to gratify
+his malice and to support religion. He was prose-
+cuted for libel--was convicted and fined.
+
+Yet the life of Paine written by this man is referred
+to by the Christian world as the highest authority.
+
+As to the personal habits of Mr. Paine, we have
+the testimony of William Carver, with whom he
+lived; of Mr. Jarvis, the artist, with whom he lived;
+of Mr. Staple, with whom he lived; of Mr. Purdy,
+who was a tenant of Paine's; of Mr. Burger, with
+whom he was intimate; of Thomas Nixon and
+Captain Daniel Pelton, both of whom knew him
+well; of Amasa Woodsworth, who was with him
+when he died; of John Fellows, who boarded at the
+same house; of James Wilburn, with whom he
+boarded; of B. F. Haskin, a lawyer, who was well
+acquainted with him and called upon him during his
+last illness; of Walter Morton, a friend; of Clio
+Rickman, who had known him for many years; of
+Willet and Elias Hicks, Quakers, who knew him in-
+timately and well; of Judge Herttell, H. Margary,
+Elihu Palmer, and many others. All these testified
+to the fact that Mr. Paine was a temperate man. In
+those days nearly everybody used spirituous liquors.
+Paine was not an exception; but he did not drink to
+excess. Mr. Lovett, who kept the City Hotel where
+
+478
+
+Paine stopped, in a note to Caleb Bingham, declared
+that Paine drank less than any boarder he had.
+
+Against all this evidence you produce the story of
+Grant Thorburn--the story of the Rev. J. D. Wick-
+ham that an elder in his church told him that Paine
+was a drunkard, corroborated by the Rev. Charles
+Hawley, and an extract from Lossing's history to
+the same effect. The evidence is overwhelmingly
+against you. Will you have the fairness to admit it?
+Your witnesses are merely the repeaters of the false-
+hoods of James Cheetham, the convicted libeler.
+
+After all, drinking is not as bad as lying. An
+honest drunkard is better than a calumniator of the
+dead. "A remnant of old mortality, drunk, bloated
+and half asleep" is better than a perfectly sober
+defender of human slavery.
+
+To become drunk is a virtue compared with steal-
+ing a babe from the breast of its mother.
+
+Drunkenness is one of the beatitudes, compared
+with editing a religious paper devoted to the defence
+of slavery upon the ground that it is a divine insti-
+tution.
+
+Do you really think that Paine was a drunken
+beast when he wrote "Common Sense"--a pamphlet
+that aroused three millions of people, as people were
+never aroused by a pamphlet before? Was he a
+
+479
+
+drunken beast when he wrote the "Crisis"? Was
+it to a drunken beast that the following letter was
+addressed:
+
+Rocky Hill, September 10, 1783.
+
+"I have learned since I have been at this place,
+that you are at Bordentown.--Whether for the sake
+of retirement or economy I know not. Be it for
+either or both, or whatever it may, if you will come
+to this place and partake with me I shall be exceed-
+ingly happy to see you at it. Your presence may
+remind Congress of your past services to this country;
+and if it is in my power to impress them, command
+my best exertions with freedom, as they will be
+rendered cheerfully by one who entertains a lively
+sense of the importance of your works, and who with
+much pleasure subscribes himself,
+
+"Your Sincere Friend,
+
+"George Washington."
+
+Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter
+like that?
+
+Do you think that Paine was a drunken beast
+when the following letter was received by him?
+
+"You express a wish in your letter to return to
+America in a national ship; Mr. Dawson, who brings
+over the treaty, and who will present you with this
+letter, is charged with orders to the captain of the
+
+480
+
+Maryland to receive and accommodate you back, if you
+can be ready to depart at such a short warning. You
+will in general find us returned to sentiments worthy
+of former times; _in these it will be your glory to have
+steadily labored and with as much effect as any man
+living._ That you may live long to continue your
+useful labors, and reap the reward in the _thankfulness
+of nations_, is my sincere prayer. Accept the assur-
+ances of my high esteem and affectionate attachment."
+
+Thomas Jefferson.
+
+Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter
+like that?
+
+"It has been very generally propagated through
+the continent that I wrote the pamphlet 'Common
+Sense.' I could not have written anything in so
+manly and striking a style."--John Adams.
+
+"A few more such flaming arguments as were
+exhibited at Falmouth and Norfolk, added to the
+sound doctrine and unanswerable reasoning con-
+tained in the pamphlet 'Common Sense,' will not
+leave numbers at a loss to decide on the propriety of
+a separation."--George Washington.
+
+"It is not necessary for me to tell you how
+much all your countrymen--I speak of the great
+mass of the people--are interested in your welfare.
+
+481
+
+They have not forgotten the history of their own
+Revolution and the difficult scenes through which
+they passed; nor do they review its several stages
+without reviving in their bosoms a due sensibility of
+the merits of those who served them in that great
+and arduous conflict. The crime of ingratitude has
+not yet stained, and I trust never will stain, our
+national character. You are considered by them as
+not only having rendered important services in our
+own Revolution, but as being on a more extensive
+scale the friend of human rights, and a distinguished
+and able defender of public liberty. To the welfare
+of Thomas Paine the Americans are not, nor can
+they be indifferent.".. James Monroe.
+
+Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter
+like that?
+
+"No writer has exceeded Paine in ease and famil-
+iarity of style, in perspicuity of expression, happiness
+of elucidation, and in simple and unassuming lan-
+guage."'--Thomas Jefferson.
+
+Was ever a letter like that written about an editor
+of the _New York Observer?_
+
+Was it in consideration of the services of a
+drunken beast that the Legislature of Pennsylvania
+presented Thomas Paine with five hundred pounds
+sterling?
+
+482
+
+Did the State of New York feel indebted to a
+drunken beast, and confer upon Thomas Paine an
+estate of several hundred acres?
+
+"I believe in the equality of man, and I believe
+that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving
+mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creat-
+ures happy."
+
+"My own mind is my own church."
+
+"It is necessary to the happiness of man that he
+be mentally faithful to himself."
+
+"Any system of religion that shocks the mind of
+a child cannot be a true system."
+
+"The Word of God is the creation which we
+behold."
+
+"The age of ignorance commenced with the
+Christian system."
+
+"It is with a pious fraud as with a bad action--it
+begets a calamitous necessity of going on."
+
+"To read the Bible without horror, we must undo
+everything that is tender, sympathizing and benev-
+olent in the heart of man."
+
+"The man does not exist who can say I have per-
+secuted him, or that I have in any case returned evil
+for evil."
+
+"Of all tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in
+religion is the worst."
+
+483
+
+"My own opinion is, that those whose lives have
+been spent in doing good and endeavoring to make
+their fellow-mortals happy, will be happy hereafter."
+"The belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man."
+"The intellectual part of religion is a private affair
+between every man and his Maker, and in which no
+third party has any right to interfere. The practical
+part consists in our doing good to each other."
+
+"No man ought to make a living by religion. One
+person cannot act religion for another--every person
+must perform it for himself."
+
+"One good schoolmaster is of more use than a
+hundred priests."
+
+"Let us propagate morality unfettered by super-
+stition."
+
+"God is the power, or first cause, Nature is the
+law, and matter is the subject acted upon."
+
+"I believe in one God and no more, and I hope
+for happiness beyond this life."
+
+"The key of heaven is not in the keeping of any
+sect nor ought the road to it to be obstructed
+by any."
+
+"My religion, and the whole of it, is the fear and
+love of the Deity and universal philanthropy."
+
+"I have yet, I believe, some years in store, for I
+have a good state of health and a happy mind. I
+
+484
+
+take care of both, by nourishing the first with tem-
+perance and the latter with abundance."
+
+"He lives immured within the Bastile of a
+word."
+
+How perfectly that sentence describes you! The
+Bastile in which you are immured is the word
+"Calvinism."
+
+"Man has no property in man."
+
+What a splendid motto that would have made for
+the _New York Observer_ in the olden time!
+
+"The world is my country; to do good, my
+religion."
+
+I ask you again whether these splendid utterances
+came from the lips of a drunken beast?
+
+
+_Did Thomas Paine die in destitution and want?_
+
+The charge has been made, over and over again,
+that Thomas Paine died in want and destitution--
+that he was an abandoned pauper--an outcast with-
+out friends and without money. This charge is just
+as false as the rest.
+
+Upon his return to this country in 1802, he was
+worth $30,000, according to his own statement made
+at that time in the following letter addressed to Clio
+Rickman:
+
+"My Dear Friend: Mr. Monroe, who is appointed
+minister extraordinary to France, takes charge of
+
+485
+
+this, to be delivered to Mr. Este, banker in Paris, to
+be forwarded to you.
+
+"I arrived at Baltimore the 30th of October, and
+you can have no idea of the agitation which my
+arrival occasioned. From New Hampshire to
+Georgia (an extent of 1,500 miles) every newspaper
+was filled with applause or abuse.
+
+"My property in this country has been taken care
+of by my friends, and is now worth six thousand
+pounds sterling; which put in the funds will bring
+me £400 sterling a year.
+
+"Remember me in affection and friendship to your
+wife and family, and in the circle of your friends."
+
+Thomas Paine.
+
+A man in those days worth thirty thousand dol-
+lars was not a pauper. That amount would bring an
+income of at least two thousand dollars per annum.
+Two thousand dollars then would be fully equal to
+five thousand dollars now.
+
+On the 12th of July, 1809, the year in which he
+died, Mr. Paine made his will. From this instru-
+ment we learn that he was the owner of a valuable
+farm within twenty miles of New York. He also
+was the owner of thirty shares in the New York
+Phoenix Insurance Company, worth upwards of fif-
+teen hundred dollars. Besides this, some personal
+
+486
+
+property and ready money. By his will he gave to
+Walter Morton, and Thomas Addis Emmett, brother
+of Robert Emmett, two hundred dollars each, and
+one hundred to the widow of Elihu Palmer.
+
+Is it possible that this will was made by a pauper
+--by a destitute outcast--by a man who suffered for
+the ordinary necessaries of life?
+
+But suppose, for the sake of the argument, that he
+was poor and that he died a beggar, does that tend
+to show that the Bible is an inspired book and that
+Calvin did not burn Servetus? Do you really regard
+poverty as a crime? If Paine had died a millionaire,
+would you have accepted his religious opinions? If
+Paine had drank nothing but cold water would you
+have repudiated the five cardinal points of Calvin-
+ism? Does an argument depend for its force upon
+the pecuniary condition of the person making it?
+As a matter of fact, most reformers--most men and
+women of genius, have been acquainted with poverty.
+Beneath a covering of rags have been found some of
+the tenderest and bravest hearts.
+
+Owing to the attitude of the churches for the last
+fifteen hundred years, truth-telling has not been a
+very lucrative business. As a rule, hypocrisy has
+worn the robes, and honesty the rags. That day is
+passing away. You cannot now answer the argu-
+
+487
+
+ments of a man by pointing at holes in his coat.
+Thomas Paine attacked the church when it was
+powerful--when it had what was called honors to
+bestow--when it was the keeper of the public con-
+science--when it was strong and cruel. The church
+waited till he was dead then attacked his reputation
+and his clothes.
+
+Once upon a time a donkey kicked a lion. The
+lion was dead.
+
+Conclusion.
+
+From the persistence with which the orthodox
+have charged for the last sixty-eight years that
+Thomas Paine recanted, and that when dying he
+was filled with remorse and fear; from the malignity
+of the attacks upon his personal character, I had con-
+cluded that there must be some evidence of some
+kind to support these charges. Even with my ideas
+of the average honor of believers in superstition--
+the disciples of fear--I did not quite believe that all
+these infamies rested solely upon poorly attested
+lies. I had charity enough to suppose that some-
+thing had been said or done by Thomas Paine capa-
+ble of being tortured into a foundation for these
+calumnies. And I was foolish enough to think that
+even you would be willing to fairly examine the pre-
+tended evidence said to sustain these charges, and
+
+488
+
+give your honest conclusion to the world. I sup-
+posed that you, being acquainted with the history of
+your country, felt under a certain obligation to
+Thomas Paine for the splendid services rendered by
+him in the darkest days of the Revolution. It was
+only reasonable to suppose that you were aware that
+in the midnight of Valley Forge the "Crisis," by
+Thomas Paine, was the first star that glittered in the
+wide horizon of despair. I took it for granted that
+you knew of the bold stand taken and the brave
+words spoken by Thomas Paine, in the French Con-
+vention, against the death of the king. I thought it
+probable that you, being an editor, had read the
+"Rights of Man;" that you knew that Thomas
+Paine was a champion of human liberty; that he was
+one of the founders and fathers of this Republic; that
+he was one of the foremost men of his age; that he
+had never written a word in favor of injustice; that
+he was a despiser of slavery; that he abhorred tyr-
+anny in all its forms; that he was in the widest and
+highest sense a friend of his race; that his head was
+as clear as his heart was good, and that he had the
+courage to speak his honest thought. Under these
+circumstances I had hoped that you would for the
+moment forget your religious prejudices and submit
+to the enlightened judgment of the world the evi-
+
+489
+
+dence you had, or could obtain, affecting in any way
+the character of so great and so generous a man. This
+you have refused to do. In my judgment, you have
+mistaken the temper of even your own readers. A
+large majority of the religious people of this country
+have, to a considerable extent, outgrown the preju-
+dices of their fathers. They are willing to know the
+truth and the whole truth, about the life and death of
+Thomas Paine. They will not thank you for having
+presented them the moss-covered, the maimed and dis-
+torted traditions of ignorance, prejudice, and credulity.
+By this course you will convince them not of the
+wickedness of Paine, but of your own unfairness.
+
+What crime had Thomas Paine committed that he
+should have feared to die? The only answer you
+can give is, that he denied the inspiration of the
+Scriptures. If this is a crime, the civilized world is
+filled with criminals. The pioneers of human thought
+--the intellectual leaders of the world--the foremost
+men in every science--the kings of literature and
+art--those who stand in the front rank of investiga-
+tion--the men who are civilizing, elevating, instruct-
+ing, and refining mankind, are to-day unbelievers in
+the dogma of inspiration. Upon this question, the
+intellect of Christendom agrees with the conclusions
+reached by the genius of Thomas Paine. Centuries
+
+490
+
+ago a noise was made for the purpose of frightening
+mankind. Orthodoxy is the echo of that noise.
+
+The man who now regards the Old Testament as
+in any sense a sacred or inspired book is, in my judg-
+ment, an intellectual and moral deformity. There is
+in it so much that is cruel, ignorant, and ferocious
+that it is to me a matter of amazement that it was
+ever thought to be the work of a most merciful deity.
+
+Upon the question of inspiration Thomas Paine
+gave his honest opinion. Can it be that to give an
+honest opinion causes one to die in terror and de-
+spair? Have you in your writings been actuated by
+the fear of such a consequence? Why should it be
+taken for granted that Thomas Paine, who devoted
+his life to the sacred cause of freedom, should have
+been hissed at in the hour of death by the snakes of
+conscience, while editors of Presbyterian papers who
+defended slavery as a divine institution, and cheer-
+fully justified the stealing of babes from the breasts of
+mothers, are supposed to have passed smilingly from
+earth to the embraces of angels? Why should you
+think that the heroic author of the "Rights of Man"
+should shudderingly dread to leave this "bank and
+shoal of time," while Calvin, dripping with the blood
+of Servetus, was anxious to be judged of God? Is
+it possible that the persecutors--the instigators of
+
+491
+
+the massacre of St. Bartholomew--the inventors and
+users of thumb-screws, and iron boots, and racks--
+the burners and tearers of human flesh--the stealers,
+whippers and enslavers of men--the buyers and
+beaters of babes and mothers--the founders of
+inquisitions--the makers of chains, the builders of
+dungeons, the slanderers of the living and the calum-
+niators of the dead, all died in the odor of sanctity,
+with white, forgiven hands folded upon the breasts
+of peace, while the destroyers of prejudice--the
+apostles of humanity--the soldiers of liberty--the
+breakers of fetters--the creators of light--died sur-
+rounded with the fierce fiends of fear?
+
+In your attempt to destroy the character of Thomas
+Paine you have failed, and have succeeded only in
+leaving a stain upon your own. You have written
+words as cruel, bitter and heartless as the creed of
+Calvin. Hereafter you will stand in the pillory of
+history as a defamer--a calumniator of the dead.
+You will be known as the man who said that Thomas
+Paine, the "Author Hero," lived a drunken, coward-
+ly and beastly life, and died a drunken and beastly
+death. These infamous words will be branded upon
+the forehead of your reputation. They will be re-
+membered against you when all else you may have
+uttered shall have passed from the memory of men.
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll.
+
+
+
+
+THE OBSERVER'S SECOND ATTACK
+
+     _* From the NY. Observer of Nov. 1, 1877._
+
+
+TOM PAINE AGAIN.
+
+In the Observer of September 27th, in response
+to numerous calls from different parts of the country
+for information, and in fulfillment of a promise, we
+presented a mass of testimony, chiefly from persons
+with whom we had been personally acquainted,
+establishing the truth of our assertions in regard to
+the dissolute life and miserable end of Paine. It was
+not a pleasing subject for discussion, and an apology,
+or at least an explanation, is due to our readers for
+resuming it, and for occupying so much space, or
+any space, in exhibiting the truth and the proofs in
+regard to the character of a man who had become so
+debased by his intemperance, and so vile in his
+habits, as to be excluded, for many years before and
+up to the time of his death, from all decent society.
+
+Our reasons for taking up the subject at all, and
+for presenting at this time so much additional testi-
+mony in regard to the facts of the case, are these:
+At different periods for the last fifty years, efforts
+
+493
+
+have been made by Infidels to revive and honor the
+memory of one whose friends would honor him most
+by suffering his name to sink into oblivion, if that
+were possible. About two years since, Rev. O. B.
+Frothingham, of this city, came to their aid, and
+undertook a sort of championship of Paine, making
+in a public discourse this statement: "No private
+character has been more foully calumniated in the
+name of God than that of Thomas Paine." (Mr.
+Frothingham, it will be remembered, is the one who
+recently, in a public discourse, announced the down-
+fall of Christianity, although he very kindly made
+the allowance that, "it may be a thousand years
+before its decay will be visible to all eyes." It is
+our private opinion that it will be at least a thousand
+and one.) Rev. John W. Chadwick, a minister of
+the same order of unbelief, who signs himself, "Min-
+ister of the Second Unitarian Society in Brooklyn,"
+has devoted two discourses to the same end, eulogiz-
+ing Paine. In one of these, which we have before
+us in a handsomely printed pamphlet, entitled,
+"Method and Value of his (Paine's) Religious
+Teachings," he says: "Christian usage has determ-
+ined that an Infidel means one who does not believe
+in Christianity as a supernatural religion; in the
+Bible as a Supernatural book; in Jesus as a super-
+
+494
+
+natural person. And in this sense Paine was an
+Infidel, and so, thank God, am I." It is proper to
+add that Unitarians generally decline all responsibil-
+ity for the utterances of both of these men, and that
+they compose a denomination, or rather two denom-
+inations, of their own.
+
+There is also a certain class of Infidels who are
+not quite prepared to meet the odium that attaches
+to the name; they call themselves Christians, but
+their sympathies are all with the enemies of Chris-
+tianity, and they are not always able to conceal it.
+They have not the courage of their opinions, like
+Mr. Frothingham and Mr. Chadwick, and they work
+only sideways toward the same end. We have been
+no little amused since our last article on this subject
+appeared, to read some of the articles that have been
+written on the other side, though professedly on no
+side, and to observe how sincerely these men depre-
+cate the discussion of the character of Paine, as an
+unprofitable topic. It never appeared to them un-
+profitable when the discussion was on the other side.
+
+Then, too, we have for months past been receiving
+letters from different parts of the country, asking
+authentic information on the subject and stating that
+the followers of Paine are making extraordinary
+efforts to circulate his writings against the Christian
+
+495
+
+religion, and in order to give currency to these writ-
+ings they are endeavoring to rescue his name from
+the disgrace into which it sank during the latter
+years of his life. Paine spent several of his last
+years in furnishing a commentary upon his Infidel
+principles. This commentary was contained in his
+besotted, degraded life and miserable end, but his
+friends do not wish the commentary to go out in
+connection with his writings. They prefer to have
+them read without the comments by their author.
+Hence this anxiety to free the great apostle of
+Infidelity from the obloquy which his life brought
+upon his name; to represent him as a pure, noble,
+virtuous man, and to make it appear that he died a
+peaceful, happy death, just like a philosopher.
+
+But what makes the publication of the facts in the
+case still more imperative at this time is the whole-
+sale accusation brought against the Christian public
+by the friends and admirers of Paine. Christian
+ministers as a class, and Christian journals are
+expressly accused of falsifying history, of defaming
+"the mighty dead!" (meaning Paine,) &c., &c. In
+the face of all these accusations it cannot be out of
+place to state the facts and to fortify the statement
+by satisfactory evidence, as we are abundantly able
+to do.
+
+496
+
+The two points on which we proposed to produce
+the testimony are, the character of Paine's life (refer-
+ring of course to his last residence in this country,
+for no one has intimated that he had sunk into such
+besotted drunkenness until about the time of his
+return to the United States in 1802), and the real
+character of his death as consistent with such a life,
+and as marked further by the cowardliness, which
+has been often exhibited by Infidels in the same
+circumstances.
+
+It is nothing at all to the purpose to show, as his
+friends are fond of doing, that Paine rendered
+important service to the cause of American Inde-
+pendence. This is not the point under discussion
+and is not denied. No one ever called in question
+the valuable service that Benedict Arnold rendered
+to the country in the early part of the Revolutionary
+war; but this, with true Americans, does not suffice
+to cast a shade of loveliness or even to spread a man-
+tle of charity over his subsequent career. Whatever
+share Paine had in the personal friendship of the
+fathers of the Revolution he forfeited by his subse-
+quent life of beastly drunkenness and degradation,
+and on this account as well as on account of his
+blasphemy he was shunned by all decent people.
+
+We wish to make one or two corrections of mis-
+
+497
+
+statements by Paine's advocates, on which a vast
+amount of argument has been simply wasted. We
+have never stated in any form, nor have we ever
+supposed, that Paine actually renounced his Infidel-
+ity. The accounts agree in stating that he died a
+blaspheming Infidel, and his horrible death we regard
+as one of the fruits, the fitting complement of his
+Infidelity. We have never seen anything that
+encouraged the hope that he was not abandoned of
+God in his last hours. But we have no doubt, on
+the other hand, that having become a wreck in body
+and mind through his intemperance, abandoned of
+God, deserted by his Infidel companions, and de-
+pendent upon Christian charity for the attentions he
+received, miserable beyond description in his condi-
+tion, and seeing nothing to hope for in the future, he
+was afraid to die, and was ready to call upon God
+and upon Christ for mercy, and ready perhaps in the
+next minute to blaspheme. This is what we referred
+to in speaking of Paine's death as cowardly. It is
+shown in the testimony we have produced, and still
+more fully in that which we now present. The most
+wicked men are ready to call upon God in seasons
+of great peril, and sometimes ask for Christian min-
+istrations when in extreme illness; but they are
+often ready on any alleviation of distress to turn to
+
+498
+
+their wickedness again, in the expressive language
+of Scripture, "as the sow that was washed to her
+wallowing in the mire."
+
+We have never stated or intimated, nor, so far as
+we are aware, has any one of our correspondents
+stated, that Paine died in poverty. It has been
+frequently and truthfully stated that Paine was de-
+pendent on Christian charity for the attentions he
+received in his last days, and so he was. His Infidel
+companions forsook him and Christian hearts and
+hands ministered to his wants, notwithstanding the
+blasphemies of his death-bed.
+
+Nor has one of our correspondents stated, as
+alleged, that Paine died at New Rochelle. The
+Rev. Dr. Wickham, who was a resident of that place
+nearly fifty years ago, and who was perfectly familiar
+with the facts of his life, wrote that Paine spent "his
+latter days" on the farm presented to him by
+the State of New York, which was strictly true,
+but made no reference to it as the place of his
+death.
+
+Such misrepresentations serve to show how much
+the advocates of Paine admire "truth."
+
+With these explanations we produce further evi-
+dence in regard to the manner of Paine's life and the
+character of his death, both of which we have already
+
+499
+
+characterized in appropriate terms, as the following
+testimony will show.
+
+In regard to Paine's "personal habits," even before
+his return to this country, and particularly his aver-
+sion to soap and water, Elkana Watson, a gentleman
+of the highest social position, who resided in France
+during a part of the Revolutionary war, and who
+was the personal friend of Washington, Franklin,
+and other patriots of the period, makes some inci-
+dental statements in his "Men and Times of the
+Revolution." Though eulogizing Paine's efforts in
+behalf of American Independence, he describes him
+as "coarse and uncouth in his manners, loathsome
+in his appearance, and a disgusting egotist." On
+Paine's arrival at Nantes, the Mayor and other dis-
+tinguished citizens called upon him to pay their
+respects to the American patriot. Mr. Watson says:
+"He was soon rid of his respectable visitors, who
+left the room with marks of astonishment and dis-
+gust." Mr. W., after much entreaty, and only by
+promising him a bundle of newspapers to read while
+undergoing the operation, succeeded in prevailing
+on Paine to "stew, for an hour, in a hot bath." Mr.
+W. accompanied Paine to the bath, and "instructed
+the keeper, in French, (which Paine did not under-
+stand,) gradually to increase the heat of the water
+
+500
+
+until 'le Monsieur serait bien bouille (until the gentle-
+man shall be well boiled;) and adds that "he became
+so much absorbed in his reading that he was nearly-
+parboiled before leaving the bath, much to his im-
+provement and my satisfaction."
+
+William Carver has been cited as a witness in be-
+half of Paine, and particularly as to his "personal
+habits." In a letter to Paine, dated December 2,
+1776, he bears the following testimony:
+
+"A respectable gentlemen from New Rochelle
+called to see me a few days back, and said that
+everybody was tired of you there, and no one would
+undertake to board and lodge you. I thought this
+was the case, as I found you at a tavern in a most
+miserable situation. You appeared as if you had
+not been shaved for a fortnight, and as to a shirt, it
+could not be said that you had one on. It was only
+the remains of one, and this, likewise, appeared not
+to have been off your back for a fortnight, and was
+nearly the color of tanned leather; and you had the
+most disagreeable smell possible; just like that of
+our poor beggars in England. Do you remember the
+pains I took to clean you? that I got a tub of warm
+water and soap and washed you from head to foot, and
+this I had to do three times before I could get you
+clean." (And then follow more disgusting details.)
+
+501
+
+"You say, also, that you found your own liquors
+during the time you boarded with me; but you
+should have said, 'I found only a small part of the
+liquor I drank during my stay with you; this part I
+purchased of John Fellows, which was a demijohn of
+brandy containing four gallons, and this did not serve
+me three weeks.' This can be proved, and I mean
+not to say anything that I cannot prove; for I hold
+truth as a precious jewel. It is a well-known fact,
+that you drank one quart of brandy per day, at my
+expense, during the different times that you have
+boarded with me, the demijohn above mentioned
+excepted, and the last fourteen weeks you were sick.
+Is not this a supply of liquor for dinner and supper?"
+This chosen witness in behalf of Paine, closes his
+letter, which is full of loathsome descriptions of
+Paine's manner of life, as follows:
+
+"Now, sir, I think I have drawn a complete por-
+trait of your character; yet to enter upon every
+minutiae would be to give a history of your life, and
+to develop the fallacious mask of hypocrisy and de-
+ception under which you have acted in your political
+as well as moral capacity of life."
+
+(Signed) "William Carver."
+
+Carver had the same opinion of Paine to his dying
+day. When an old man, and an Infidel of the Paine
+
+502
+
+type and habits, he was visited by the Rev. E. F.
+Hatfield, D.D., of this city, who writes to us of his
+interview with Carver, under date of Sept. 27, 1877:
+"I conversed with him nearly an hour. I took
+special pains to learn from him all that I could about
+Paine, whose landlord he had been for eighteen
+months. He spoke of him as a base and shameless
+drunkard, utterly destitute of moral principle. His
+denunciations of the man were perfectly fearful, and
+fully confirmed, in my apprehension, all that had been
+written of Paine's immorality and repulsiveness."
+Cheetham's Life of Paine, which was published
+the year that he died, and which has passed through
+several editions (we have three of them now before
+us) describes a man lost to all moral sensibility and
+to all sense of decency, a habitual drunkard, and it is
+simply incredible that a book should have appeared
+so soon after the death of its subject and should have
+been so frequently republished without being at once
+refuted, if the testimony were not substantially true.
+Many years later, when it was found necessary to
+bolster up the reputation of Paine, Cheetham's
+Memoirs were called a pack of lies. If only one-
+tenth part of what he publishes circumstantially in
+his volume, as facts in regard to Paine, were true, all
+that has been written against him in later years does
+
+503
+
+not begin to set forth the degraded character of the
+man's life. And with all that has been written on
+the subject we see no good reason to doubt the sub-
+stantial accuracy of Cheetham's portrait of the man
+whom he knew so well.
+
+Dr. J. W. Francis, well-known as an eminent phy-
+sician, of this city, in his Reminiscences of New York,
+says of Paine:
+
+"He who, in his early days, had been associated
+with, and had received counsel from Franklin, was,
+in his old age, deserted by the humblest menial; he,
+whose pen has proved a very sword among nations,
+had shaken empires, and made kings tremble, now
+yielded up the mastery to the most treacherous of
+tyrants, King Alcohol."
+
+The physician who attended Paine during his last
+illness was Dr. James R. Manley, a gentleman of the
+highest character. A letter of his, written in Octo-
+ber of the year that Paine died, fully corroborates
+the account of his state as recorded by Stephen
+Grellet in his Memoirs, which we have already
+printed. He writes:
+
+"New York, October 2, 1809: I was called upon
+by accident to visit Mr. Paine, on the 25th of Feb-
+ruary last, and found him indisposed with fever, and
+very apprehensive of an attack of apoplexy, as he
+
+504
+
+stated that he had that disease before, and at this
+time felt a great degree of vertigo, and was unable
+to help himself as he had hitherto done, on account
+of an intense pain above the eyes. On inquiry of
+the attendants I was told that three or four days
+previously he had concluded to dispense with his
+usual quantity of accustomed stimulus and that he
+had on that day resumed it. To the want of his
+usual drink they attributed his illness, and it is highly
+probable that the usual quantity operating upon a
+state of system more excited from the above priva-
+tions, was the cause of the symptoms of which he
+then complained.... And here let me be per-
+mitted to observe (lest blame might attach to those
+whose business it was to pay any particular attention
+to his cleanliness of person) that it was absolutely
+impossible to effect that purpose. Cleanliness ap-
+peared to make no part of his comfort; he seemed
+to have a singular aversion to soap and water; he
+would never ask to be washed, and when he was he
+would always make objections; and it was not un-
+usual to wash and to dress him clean very much
+against his inclinations. In this deplorable state,
+with confirmed dropsy, attended with frequent cough,
+vomiting and hiccough, he continued growing from
+bad to worse till the morning of the 8th of June,
+
+505
+
+when he died. Though I may remark that during
+the last three weeks of his life his situation was such
+that his decease was confidently expected every day,
+his ulcers having assumed a gangrenous appearance,
+being excessively fetid, and discolored blisters hav-
+ing taken place on the soles of his feet without any
+ostensible cause, which baffled the usual attempts to
+arrest their progress; and when we consider his
+former habits, his advanced age, the feebleness of his
+constitution, his constant habit of using ardent spirits
+ad libitum till the commencement of his last illness,
+so far from wondering that he died so soon, we are
+constrained to ask, How did he live so long? Con-
+cerning his conduct during his disease I have not
+much to remark, though the little I have may be
+somewhat interesting. Mr. Paine professed to be
+above the fear of death, and a great part of his con-
+versation was principally directed to give the impres-
+sion that he was perfectly willing to leave this world,
+and yet some parts of his conduct were with difficulty
+reconcilable with his belief. In the first stages of his
+illness he was satisfied to be left alone during the
+day, but he required some person to be with him at
+night, urging as his reason that he was afraid that
+he should die when unattended, and at this period
+his deportment and his principle seemed to be con-
+
+506
+
+sistent; so much so that a stranger would judge from
+some of the remarks he would make that he was an
+Infidel. I recollect being with him at night, watch-
+ing; he was very apprehensive of a speedy dissolu-
+tion, and suffered great distress of body, and perhaps
+of mind (for he was waiting the event of an applica-
+tion to the Society of Friends for permission that his
+corpse might be deposited in their grave-ground, and
+had reason to believe that the request might be
+refused), when he remarked in these words, 'I think
+I can say what they made Jesus Christ to say--"My
+God, my God! why hast thou forsaken me?" He
+went on to observe on the want of that respect which
+he conceived he merited, when I observed to him
+that I thought his corpse should be matter of least
+concern to him; that those whom he would leave
+behind him would see that he was properly interred,
+and, further, that it would be of little consequence to
+me where I was deposited provided I was buried;
+upon which he answered that he had nothing else to
+talk about, and that he would as lief talk of his death
+as of anything, but that he was not so indifferent
+about his corpse as I appeared to be.
+
+"During the latter part of his life, though his con-
+versation was equivocal, his conduct was singular;
+he could not be left alone night or day; he not only
+
+507
+
+required to have some person with him, but he must
+see that he or she was there, and would not allow
+his curtain to be closed at any time; and if, as it
+would sometimes unavoidably happen, he was left
+alone, he would scream and halloo until some person
+came to him. When relief from pain would admit,
+he seemed thoughtful and contemplative, his eyes
+being generally closed, and his hands folded upon
+his breast, although he never slept without the assist-
+ance of an anodyne. There was something remark-
+able in his conduct about this period (which comprises
+about two weeks immediately preceding his death),
+particularly when we reflect that Thomas Paine was
+the author of the 'Age of Reason.' He would call
+out during his paroxysms of distress, without inter-
+mission, 'O Lord help me! God help me! Jesus
+Christ help me! Lord help me!' etc., repeating the
+same expressions without the least variation, in a
+tone of voice that would alarm the house. It was
+this conduct which induced me to think that he had
+abandoned his former opinions, and I was more
+inclined to that belief when I understood from his
+nurse (who is a very serious and, I believe, pious
+woman), that he would occasionally inquire, when he
+saw her engaged with a book, what she was reading,
+and, being answered, and at the same time asked
+
+508
+
+whether she should read aloud, he assented, and
+would appear to give particular attention.
+
+"I took occasion during the nights of the fifth
+and sixth of June to test the strength of his opinions
+respecting revelation. I purposely made him a very
+late visit; it was a time which seemed to suit exactly
+with my errand; it was midnight, he was in great
+distress, constantly exclaiming in the words above
+mentioned, when, after a considerable preface, I
+addressed him in the following manner, the nurse
+being present: 'Mr. Paine, your opinions, by a large
+portion of the community, have been treated with
+deference, you have never been in the habit of mix-
+ing in your conversation words of coarse meaning;
+you have never indulged in the practice of profane
+swearing; you must be sensible that we are ac-
+quainted with your religious opinions as they are
+given to the world. What must we think of your
+present conduct? Why do you call upon Jesus
+Christ to help you? Do you believe that he can
+help you? Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus
+Christ? Come, now, answer me honestly. I want
+an answer from the lips of a dying man, for I verily
+believe that you will not live twenty-four hours.' I
+waited some time at the end of every question; he
+did not answer, but ceased to exclaim in the above
+
+509
+
+manner. Again I addressed him; 'Mr. Paine, you
+have not answered my questions; will you answer
+them? Allow me to ask again, do you believe? or
+let me qualify the question, do you wish to believe
+that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?' After a pause
+of some minutes, he answered, 'I have no wish to
+believe on that subject.' I then left him, and knew
+not whether he afterward spoke to any person on
+any subject, though he lived, as I before observed,
+till the morning of the 8th. Such conduct, under
+usual circumstances, I conceive absolutely unaccount-
+able, though, with diffidence, I would remark, not so
+much so in the present instance; for though the first
+necessary and general result of conviction be a sin-
+cere wish to atone for evil committed, yet it may be
+a question worthy of able consideration whether
+excessive pride of opinion, consummate vanity, and
+inordinate self-love might not prevent or retard that
+otherwise natural consequence. For my own part,
+I believe that had not Thomas Paine been such a
+distinguished Infidel he would have left less equivo-
+cal evidences of a change of opinion. Concerning
+the persons who visited Mr. Paine in his distress as
+his personal friends, I heard very little, though I may
+observe that their number was small, and of that
+number there were not wanting those who endeavor-
+
+510
+
+ed to support him in his deistical opinions, and to
+encourage him to 'die like a man,' to 'hold fast his
+integrity,' lest Christians, or, as they were pleased to
+term them, hypocrites, might take advantage of his
+weakness, and furnish themselves with a weapon by
+which they might hope to destroy their glorious sys-
+tem of morals. Numbers visited him from motives
+of benevolence and Christian charity, endeavoring to
+effect a change of mind in respect to his religious
+sentiments. The labor of such was apparently lost,
+and they pretty generally received such treatment
+from him as none but good men would risk a second
+time, though some of those persons called frequently."
+The following testimony will be new to most of
+our readers. It is from a letter written by Bishop
+Fenwick (Roman Catholic Bishop of Boston), con-
+taining a full account of a visit which he paid to
+Paine in his last illness. It was printed in the _United
+States Catholic Magazine_ for 1846; in the _Catholic
+Herald_ of Philadelphia, October 15, 1846; in a sup-
+plement to the _Hartford Courant_, October 23, 1847;
+and in _Littell's Living Age_ for January 22, 1848,
+from which we copy. Bishop Fenwick writes:
+
+"A short time before Paine died I was sent for by
+him. He was prompted to this by a poor Catholic
+woman who went to see him in his sickness, and
+
+511
+
+who told him, among other things, that in his
+wretched condition if anybody could do him any
+good it would be a Roman Catholic priest. This
+woman was an American convert (formerly a Shak-
+ing Quakeress) whom I had received into the church
+but a few weeks before. She was the bearer of this
+message to me from Paine. I stated this circum-
+stance to F. Kohlmann, at breakfast, and requested
+him to accompany me. After some solicitation on
+my part he agreed to do so? at which I was greatly
+rejoiced, because I was at the time quite young and
+inexperienced in the ministry, and was glad to have
+his assistance, as I knew, from the great reputation
+of Paine, that I should have to do with one of the
+most impious as well as infamous of men. We
+shortly after set out for the house at Greenwich
+where Paine lodged, and on the way agreed on a
+mode of proceeding with him.
+
+"We arrived at the house; a decent-looking elderly
+woman (probably his housekeeper,) came to the
+door and inquired whether we were the Catholic
+priests, for said she, 'Mr. Paine has been so much
+annoyed of late by other denominations calling upon
+him that he has left express orders with me to admit
+no one to-day but the clergymen of the Catholic
+Church. Upon assuring her that we were Catholic
+
+512
+
+clergymen she opened the door and showed us into
+the parlor. She then left the room and shortly after
+returned to inform us that Paine was asleep, and, at
+the same time, expressed a wish that we would not
+disturb him, 'for,' said she, 'he is always in a bad
+humor when roused out of his sleep. It is better we
+wait a little till he be awake.' We accordingly sat
+down and resolved to await a more favorable moment.
+'Gentlemen,' said the lady, after having taken her
+seat also, 'I really wish you may succeed with Mr.
+Paine, for he is laboring under great distress of mind
+ever since he was informed by his physicians that he
+cannot possibly live and must die shortly. He sent
+for you to-day because he was told that if any one
+could do him good you might. Possibly he may
+think you know of some remedy which his physicians
+are ignorant of. He is truly to be pitied. His cries
+when he is left alone are heart-rending. 'O Lord
+help me!' he will exclaim during his paroxysms of
+distress--'God help me--Jesus Christ help me!'
+repeating the same expressions without the least
+variation, in a tone of voice that would alarm the
+house. Sometimes he will say, 'O God, what have
+I done to suffer so much!' then, shortly after, 'But
+there is no God,' and again a little after, 'Yet if
+there should be, what would become of me hereafter.'
+
+513
+
+Thus he will continue for some time, when on a sud-
+den he will scream, as if in terror and agony, and
+call out for me by name. On one of these occasions,
+which are very frequent, I went to him and inquired
+what he wanted. 'Stay with me,' he replied, 'for
+God's sake, for I cannot bear to be left alone.' I
+then observed that I could not always be with him,
+as I had much to attend to in the house. 'Then,' said
+he, 'send even a child to stay with me, for it is a
+hell to be alone.' 'I never saw,' she concluded, 'a
+more unhappy, a more forsaken man. It seems he
+cannot reconcile himself to die.'
+
+"Such was the conversation of the woman who
+had received us, and who probably had been employ-
+ed to nurse and take care of him during his illness.
+She was a Protestant, yet seemed very desirous that
+we should afford him some relief in his state of
+abandonment, bordering on complete despair. Hav-
+ing remained thus some time in the parlor, we at
+length heard a noise in the adjoining passage-way,
+which induced us to believe that Mr. Paine, who was
+sick in that room, had awoke. We accordingly pro-
+posed to proceed thither, which was assented to by
+the woman, and she opened the door for us. On
+entering, we found him just getting out of his
+slumber. A more wretched being in appearance I
+
+514
+
+never beheld. He was lying in a bed sufficiently
+decent of itself, but at present besmeared with filth;
+his look was that of a man greatly tortured in mind;
+his eyes haggard, his countenance forbidding, and
+his whole appearance that of one whose better days
+had been one continued scene of debauch. His only
+nourishment at this time, as we were informed, was
+nothing more than milk punch, in which he indulged
+to the full extent of his weak state. He had par-
+taken, undoubtedly, but very recently of it, as the
+sides and corners of his mouth exhibited very un-
+equivocal traces of it, as well as of blood, which had
+also followed in the track and left its mark on the
+pillow. His face, to a certain extent, had also been
+besmeared with it."
+
+Immediately upon their making known the object
+of their visit, Paine interrupted the speaker by say-
+ing: "That's enough, sir; that's enough," and again
+interrupting him, "I see what you would be about.
+I wish to hear no more from you, sir. My mind is
+made up on that subject. I look upon the whole of
+the Christian scheme to be a tissue of absurdities
+and lies, and Jesus Christ to be nothing more than a
+cunning knave and impostor." He drove them out
+of the room, exclaiming: Away with you and your
+God, too; leave the room instantly; all that you
+
+515
+
+have uttered are lies--filthy lies; and if I had a
+little more time I would prove it, as I did about
+your impostor, Jesus Christ."
+
+This, we think, will suffice. We have a mass of
+letters containing statements confirmatory of what
+we have published in regard to the life and death of
+Paine, but nothing more can be required.
+
+
+
+
+INGERSOLL'S SECOND REPLY.
+
+Peoria, Nov. 2d, 1877.
+
+To the Editor of the New York Observer:
+
+You ought to have honesty enough to admit that
+you did, in your paper of July 19th, offer to prove
+that the absurd story that Thomas Paine died in
+terror and agony on account of the religious opinions
+he had expressed, was true. You ought to have
+fairness enough to admit that you called upon me
+to deposit one thousand dollars with an honest man,
+that you might, by proving that Thomas Paine did
+die in terror, obtain the money.
+
+You ought to have honor enough to admit that
+you challenged me and that you commenced the
+controversy concerning Thomas Paine.
+
+You ought to have goodness enough to admit
+that you were mistaken in the charges you made.
+
+You ought to have manhood enough to do what
+you falsely asserted that Thomas Paine did:--you
+ought to recant. You ought to admit publicly that
+you slandered the dead; that you falsified history;
+that you defamed the defenceless; that you deliber-
+
+517
+
+ately denied what you had published in your own
+paper. There is an old saying to the effect that
+open confession is good for the soul. To you is
+presented a splendid opportunity of testing the truth
+of this saying.
+
+Nothing has astonished me more than your lack
+of common honesty exhibited in this controversy. In
+your last, you quote from Dr. J. W. Francis. Why
+did you leave out that portion in which Dr. Francis
+says _that Cheetham with settled malignity wrote the
+life of Paine?_ Why did you leave out that part in
+which Dr. Francis says that Cheetham in the same
+way _slandered Alexander Hamilton and De Witt
+Clinton?_ Is it your business to suppress the truth?
+Why did you not publish the entire letter of Bishop
+Fenwick? Was it because it proved beyond all
+cavil that Thomas Paine did not recant? Was it
+because in the light of that letter Mary Roscoe,
+Mary Hinsdale and Grant Thorburn appeared un-
+worthy of belief? Dr. J. W. Francis says in the
+same article from which you quoted, "_Paine clung to
+his Infidelity until the last moment of his life!'_ Why
+did you not publish that? It was the first line im-
+mediately above what you did quote. You must
+have seen it. Why did you suppress it? A lawyer,
+doing a thing of this character, is denominated a
+
+518
+
+shyster. I do not know the appropriate word to
+designate a theologian guilty of such an act.
+
+You brought forward three witnesses, pretending
+to have personal knowledge about the life and death
+of Thomas Paine: Grant Thorburn, Mary Roscoe
+and Mary Hinsdale. In my reply I took the ground
+that Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale must have
+been the same person. I thought it impossible that
+Paine should have had a conversation with Mary
+Roscoe, and then one precisely like it with Mary
+Hinsdale. Acting upon this conviction, I proceeded
+to show that the conversation never could have hap-
+pened, that it was absurdly false to say that Paine
+asked the opinion of a girl as to his works who had
+never read but little of them. I then showed by the
+testimony of William Cobbett, that he visited Mary
+Hinsdale in 1819, taking with him a statement con-
+cerning the recantation of Paine, given him by Mr.
+Collins, and that upon being shown this statement
+she said that "it was so long ago that she could not
+speak positively to any part of the matter--that she
+would not say any part of the paper was true." At
+that time she knew nothing, and remembered noth-
+ing. I also showed that she was a kind of standing
+witness to prove that others recanted. Willett Hicks
+denounced her as unworthy of belief.
+
+519
+
+To-day the following from the New York _World_
+was received, showing that I was right in my
+conjecture:
+
+
+Tom Paine's Death-Bed.
+
+_To the Editor of the World_:
+
+Sir: I see by your paper that Bob Ingersoll dis-
+credits Mary Hinsdale's story of the scenes which
+occurred at the death-bed of Thomas Paine. No
+one who knew that good lady would for one moment
+doubt her veracity or question her testimony. Both
+she and her husband were Quaker preachers, and
+well known and respected inhabitants of New York
+City, _Ingersoll is right in his conjecture that Mary
+Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale was the same person_. Her
+maiden name was Roscoe, and she married Henry
+Hinsdale. My mother was a Roscoe, a niece of
+Mary Roscoe, and lived with her for some time. I
+have heard her relate the story of Tom Paine's dying
+remorse, as told her by her aunt, who was a witness
+to it. She says (in a letter I have just received from
+her), "he (Tom Paine) suffered fearfully from remorse,
+and renounced his Infidel principles, calling on God
+to forgive him, and wishing his pamphlets and books
+to be burned, saying he could not die in peace until
+it was done." (Rev.) A. W. Cornell.
+
+Harpersville, New York.
+
+520
+
+You will notice that the testimony of Mary Hins-
+dale has been drawing interest since 1809, and has
+materially increased. If Paine "suffered fearfully
+from remorse, renounced his Infidel opinions and
+called on God to forgive him," it is hardly generous
+for the Christian world to fasten the fangs of malice
+in the flesh of his reputation.
+
+So Mary Roscoe was Mary Hinsdale, and as
+Mary Hinsdale has been shown by her own admis-
+sion to Mr. Cobbett to have known nothing of the
+matter; and as Mary Hinsdale was not, according to
+Willet Hicks, worthy of belief--as she told a false-
+hood of the same kind about Mary Lockwood, and
+was, according to Mr. Collins, addicted to the use of
+opium--this disposes of her and her testimony.
+
+There remains upon the stand Grant Thorburn.
+Concerning this witness, I received, yesterday, from
+the eminent biographer and essayist, James Parton,
+the following epistle:
+
+Newburyport, Mass.
+
+Col. R. G. Ingersoll:
+
+Touching Grant Thorburn, I personally know him
+to have been a dishonest man. At the age of ninety-
+two he copied, with trembling hand, a piece from a
+newspaper and brought it to the office of the _Home
+Journal, as his own_. It was I who received it and
+
+521
+
+detected the deliberate forgery. If you are ever go-
+ing to continue this subject, I will give you the exact
+facts.
+
+Fervently yours,
+
+James Parton.
+
+After this, you are welcome to what remains of
+Grant Thorburn.
+
+There is one thing that I have noticed during this
+controversy regarding Thomas Paine. In no instance
+that I now call to mind has any Christian writer
+spoken respectfully of Mr. Paine. All have taken
+particular pains to call him "Tom" Paine. Is it not
+a little strange that religion should make men so
+coarse and ill-mannered?
+
+I have often wondered what these same gentle-
+men would say if I should speak of the men eminent
+in the annals of Christianity in the same way. What
+would they say if I should write about "Tim"
+Dwight, old "Ad" Clark, "Tom" Scott, "Jim"
+McKnight, "Bill" Hamilton, "Dick" Whately, "Bill"
+Paley, and "Jack" Calvin?
+
+They would _say_ of me then, just what I _think_ of
+them now.
+
+Even if we have religion, do not let us try to get
+along without good manners. Rudeness is exceed-
+ingly unbecoming, even in a saint. Persons who
+
+522
+
+forgive their enemies ought, to say the least, to
+treat with politeness those who have never injured
+them.
+
+It is exceedingly gratifying to me that I have com-
+pelled you to say that "Paine died a blaspheming
+Infidel." Hereafter it is to be hoped nothing will be
+heard about his having recanted. As an answer to
+such slander his friends can confidently quote the
+following from the _New York Observer_ of November
+ist, 1877:
+
+"WE HAVE NEVER STATED IN ANY FORM, NOR
+HAVE WE EVER SUPPOSED THAT PAINE ACTUALLY RE-
+NOUNCED HIS INFIDELITY. THE ACCOUNTS AGREE IN
+STATING THAT HE DIED A BLASPHEMING INFIDEL."
+
+This for all coming time will refute the slanders of
+the churches yet to be.
+
+Right here allow me to ask: If you never supposed
+that Paine renounced his Infidelity, why did you try
+to prove by Mary Hinsdale that which you believed
+to be untrue?
+
+From the bottom of my heart I thank myself for
+having compelled you to admit that Thomas Paine
+did not recant.
+
+For the purpose of verifying your own admission
+concerning the death of Mr. Paine, permit me to call
+your attention to the following affidavit:
+
+523
+
+Wabash, Indiana, October 27, 1877.
+
+Col. R. G. Ingersoll:
+
+Dear Sir: The following statement of facts is at
+your disposal. In the year 1833 Willet Hicks made
+a visit to Indiana and stayed over night at my father's
+house, four miles east of Richmond. In the morn-
+ing at breakfast my mother asked Willet Hicks the
+following questions:
+
+"Was thee with Thomas Paine during his last
+sickness?"
+
+Mr. Hicks said: "I was with him every day dur-
+ing the latter part of his last sickness."
+
+"Did he express any regret in regard to writing
+the 'Age of Reason,' as the published accounts say
+he did--those accounts that have the credit of ema-
+nating from his Catholic housekeeper?"
+
+Mr. Hicks replied: "He did not in any way by
+word or action."
+
+"Did he call on God or Jesus Christ, asking either
+of them to forgive his sins, or did he curse them or
+either of them?"
+
+Mr. Hicks answered: "He did not. He died as
+easy as any one I ever saw die, and I have seen
+many die in my time." William B Barnes.
+
+Subscribed and sworn to before me Oct. 27, 1877.
+
+Warren Bigler, Notary Public.
+
+524
+
+You say in your last that "Thomas Paine was
+abandoned of God." So far as this controversy is
+concerned, it seems to me that in that sentence you
+have most graphically described your own condi-
+tion.
+
+Wishing you success in all honest undertakings, I
+remain,
+
+Yours truly,
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll.
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol.
+5 (of 12), by Robert G. Ingersoll
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+   "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd" >
+
+<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" lang="en" xml:lang="en">
+  <head>
+    <title>
+      The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Volume 5 (of 12) by Robert G. Ingersoll
+    </title>
+    <style type="text/css" xml:space="preserve">
+
+    body { margin:10%; background:#faebd0; text-align:justify}
+    P { text-indent: 1em; margin-top: .25em; margin-bottom: .25em; }
+    H1,H2,H3,H4,H5,H6 { text-align: center; margin-left: 15%; margin-right: 15%; }
+    hr  { width: 50%; text-align: center;}
+    .foot { margin-left: 20%; margin-right: 20%; text-align: justify; text-indent: -3em; font-size: 90%; }
+    blockquote {font-size: 97%; font-style: italic; margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 10%;}
+    .mynote    {background-color: #DDE; color: #000; padding: .5em; margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 10%; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 95%;}
+    .toc       { margin-left: 10%; margin-bottom: .75em;}
+    .toc2      { margin-left: 20%;}
+    div.fig { display:block; margin:0 auto; text-align:center; }
+    .figleft   {float: left; margin-left: 0%; margin-right: 1%;}
+    .figright  {float: right; margin-right: 0%; margin-left: 1%;}
+    .pagenum   {display:inline; font-size: 70%; font-style:normal;
+               margin: 0; padding: 0; position: absolute; right: 1%;
+               text-align: right;}
+    pre     { font-style: italic; font-size: 90%; margin-left: 10%;}
+
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+  </head>
+  <body>
+<pre xml:space="preserve">
+
+The Project Gutenberg EBook of The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 5
+(of 12), by Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with
+almost no restrictions whatsoever.  You may copy it, give it away or
+re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included
+with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org
+
+
+Title: The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 5 (of 12)
+       Dresden Edition--Discussions
+
+Author: Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+Release Date: February 9, 2012 [EBook #38805]
+Last Updated: November 15, 2012
+
+Language: English
+
+Character set encoding: ASCII
+
+*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK WORKS OF INGERSOLL ***
+
+
+
+
+Produced by David Widger
+
+
+
+
+
+</pre>
+    <p>
+      <a name="title" id="title"></a>
+    </p>
+    <h1>
+      THE WORKS OF<br /> ROBERT G. INGERSOLL
+    </h1>
+    <h3>
+      "There Can Be But Little Liberty On Earth<br /> While Men Worship A Tyrant
+      In Heaven."
+    </h3>
+    <h3>
+      In Twelve Volumes, Volume V.
+    </h3>
+    <h2>
+      DISCUSSIONS
+    </h2>
+    <h3>
+      1900
+    </h3>
+    <h3>
+      DRESDEN EDITION
+    </h3>
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+    <table summary="" style="margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto" cellpadding="4" border="3">
+      <tbody>
+        <tr>
+          <td>
+            <big><big><a
+            href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38805/old/orig38805-h/main.htm">
+            This eBook has been formatted to match the format of the original
+            printed volume with the line breaks as in the original. This
+            formatting allows the retention of the unusual method the author has
+            used when marking long quotations. Those wishing to view this eBook
+            in a more appealing format for laptops and other computers may click
+            on this line.</a></big></big>
+          </td>
+        </tr>
+      </tbody>
+    </table>
+    <p>
+      <br /><br />
+    </p>
+    <div class="fig" style="width:80%;">
+      <img alt="titlepage (57K)" src="images/titlepage.jpg" width="100%" /><br />
+    </div>
+    <p>
+      <br />
+    </p>
+    <div class="fig" style="width:80%;">
+      <img alt="portrait (58K)" src="images/portrait.jpg" width="100%" /><br />
+    </div>
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+    <hr />
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+    <h2>
+      Contents.
+    </h2>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#linkTOC">CONTENTS OF VOLUME V.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#linkPREF">PREFACE.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0002">INGERSOLL'S INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0003">FIRST INTERVIEW.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0004">SECOND INTERVIEW.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0005">THIRD INTERVIEW.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0006">FOURTH INTERVIEW.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0007">FIFTH INTERVIEW,</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0008">SIXTH INTERVIEW.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0009">THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0010">A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0012">THE OBSERVER'S SECOND ATTACK</a>
+    </p>
+    <p class="toc">
+      <a href="#link0013">INGERSOLL'S SECOND REPLY.</a>
+    </p>
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+    <hr />
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br /> <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+    <hr />
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br /> <a name="linkTOC" id="linkTOC"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>CONTENTS
+      OF VOLUME V.</b></big><br /> <br /> SIX INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.<br /> <br />
+      (1882.)<br /> <br /> Preface&mdash;First Interview: Great Men as Witnesses<br />
+      to the Truth of the Gospel&mdash;No man should quote<br /> the Words of
+      Another unless he is willing to<br /> Accept all the Opinions of that Man&mdash;Reasons
+      of<br /> more Weight than Reputations&mdash;Would a general<br /> Acceptance
+      of Unbelief fill the Penitentiaries?&mdash;<br /> My Creed&mdash;Most
+      Criminals Orthodox&mdash;Relig-ion and<br /> Morality not Necessarily
+      Associates&mdash;On the<br /> Creation of the Universe out of Omnipotence&mdash;Mr.<br />
+      Talmage's Theory about the Pro-duction of Light<br /> prior to the Creation
+      of the Sun&mdash;The Deluge and<br /> the Ark&mdash;Mr. Talmage's tendency
+      to Belittle the<br /> Bible Miracles&mdash;His Chemical, Geological, and<br />
+      Agricultural Views&mdash;His Disregard of Good Manners-<br /> -Second
+      Interview: An Insulting Text&mdash;God's Design<br /> in Creating Guiteau
+      to be the Assassin of<br /> Garfield&mdash;Mr. Talmage brings the Charge of<br />
+      Blasphemy&mdash;Some Real Blasphemers&mdash;The Tabernacle<br /> Pastor
+      tells the exact Opposite of the Truth about<br /> Col. Ingersoll's Attitude
+      toward the Circulation<br /> of Immoral Books&mdash;"Assassinating" God&mdash;Mr.<br />
+      Talmage finds Nearly All the Invention of Modern<br /> Times Mentioned in
+      the Bible&mdash;The Reverend<br /> Gentleman corrects the Translators of
+      the Bible in<br /> the Matter of the Rib Story&mdash;Denies that Polygamy<br />
+      is permitted by the Old Testament&mdash;His De-fence of<br /> Queen
+      Victoria and Violation of the Grave of<br /> George Eliot&mdash;Exhibits a
+      Christian Spirit&mdash;Third<br /> Interview: Mr. Talmage's Partiality in
+      the<br /> Bestowal of his Love&mdash;Denies the Right of Laymen<br /> to
+      Examine the Scriptures&mdash;Thinks the Infidels<br /> Victims of
+      Bibliophobia &mdash;He explains the Stopping<br /> of the Sun and Moon at
+      the Command of Joshua&mdash;<br /> Instances a Dark Day in the Early Part
+      of the<br /> Century&mdash;Charges that Holy Things are Made Light<br /> of&mdash;Reaffirms
+      his Confidence in the Whale and<br /> Jonah Story&mdash;The Commandment
+      which Forbids the<br /> making of Graven Images&mdash;Affirmation that the<br />
+      Bible is the Friend of Woman&mdash;The Present<br /> Condition of Woman&mdash;Fourth
+      Interview: Colonel<br /> Ingersoll Compared by Mr. Talmage tojehoiakim, who<br />
+      Consigned Writings of Jeremiah to the Flames&mdash;An<br /> Intimation that
+      Infidels wish to have all copies<br /> of the Bible Destroyed by Fire&mdash;Laughter<br />
+      Deprecated&mdash;Col. Ingersoll Accused of Denouncing<br /> his Father&mdash;Mr.
+      Talmage holds that a Man may be<br /> Perfectly Happy in Heaven with His
+      Mother in Hell-<br /> -Challenges the Infidel to Read a Chapter from St.<br />
+      John&mdash;On the "Chief Solace of the World"&mdash;Dis-<br /> covers an
+      Attempt is being made to Put Out the<br /> Light-houses of the Farther
+      Shore&mdash;Affirms our<br /> Debt to Christianity for Schools, Hospitals,<br />
+      etc.&mdash;Denies that Infidels have ever Done any<br /> Good&mdash;<br />
+      <br /> Fifth Interview: Inquiries if Men gather Grapes of<br /> Thorns, or
+      Figs of Thistles, and is Answered in<br /> the Negative&mdash;Resents the
+      Charge that the Bible is<br /> a Cruel Book&mdash;Demands to Know where the
+      Cruelty of<br /> the Bible Crops out in the Lives of Christians&mdash;<br />
+      Col. Ingersoll Accused of saying that the Bible<br /> is a Collection of
+      Polluted Writings&mdash;Mr. Talmage<br /> Asserts the Orchestral Harmony of
+      the Scriptures<br /> from Genesis to Revelation, and Repudiates the<br />
+      Theory of Contradictions&mdash;His View of Mankind<br /> Indicated in
+      Quotations from his Confession of<br /> Faith&mdash;He Insists that the
+      Bible is Scientific&mdash;<br /> Traces the New Testament to its Source
+      with St.<br /> John&mdash;Pledges his Word that no Man ever Died for a<br />
+      Lie Cheerfully and Triumphantly&mdash;As to Prophecies<br /> and
+      Predictions&mdash;Alleged "Prophetic" Fate of the<br /> Jewish People&mdash;Sixth
+      Interview: Dr. Talmage takes<br /> the Ground that the Unrivalled
+      Circulation of the<br /> Bible Proves that it is Inspired&mdash;Forgets'
+      that a<br /> Scientific Fact does not depend on the Vote of<br /> Numbers&mdash;Names
+      some Christian Millions&mdash;His<br /> Arguments Characterized as the
+      Poor-est, Weakest,<br /> and Best Possible in Support of the Doctrine of<br />
+      Inspira-tion&mdash;Will God, in Judging a Man, take<br /> into
+      Consideration the Cir-cumstances of that<br /> Man's Life?&mdash;Satisfactory
+      Reasons for Not Believ-<br /> ing that the Bible is inspired.<br /> <br />
+      <br /> THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.<br /> <br /> The Pith and Marrow of what Mr.
+      Talmage has been<br /> Pleased to Say, set forth in the form of a Shorter<br />
+      Catechism.<br /> <br /> <br /> A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.<br /> <br />
+      (1877.)<br /> <br /> Letter to the New York Observer&mdash;An Offer to Pay<br />
+      One Thousand Dollars in Gold for Proof that Thomas<br /> Paine or Voltaire
+      Died in Terror because of any<br /> Religious Opinions Either had Expressed&mdash;<br />
+      Proposition to Create a Tribunal to Hear the<br /> Evidence&mdash;The
+      Ob-server, after having Called upon<br /> Col. Ingersoll to Deposit the
+      Money, and<br /> Characterized his Talk as "Infidel 'Buncombe,'"<br />
+      Denies its Own Words, but attempts to Prove them&mdash;<br /> Its Memory
+      Refreshed by Col. Ingersoll and the<br /> Slander Refuted&mdash;Proof that
+      Paine did Not Recant -<br /> -Testimony of Thomas Nixon, Daniel Pelton, Mr.<br />
+      Jarvis, B. F. Has-kin, Dr. Manley, Amasa<br /> Woodsworth, Gilbert Vale,
+      Philip Graves, M. D.,<br /> Willet Hicks, A. C. Hankinson, John Hogeboom,
+      W.<br /> J. Hilton, Tames Cheetham, Revs. Milledollar and<br /> Cunningham,
+      Mrs. Hedden, Andrew A. Dean, William<br /> Carver,&mdash;The Statements of
+      Mary Roscoe and Mary<br /> Hindsdale Examined&mdash;William Cobbett's
+      Account of a<br /> Call upon Mary Hinsdale&mdash;Did Thomas Paine live the<br />
+      Life of a Drunken Beast, and did he Die a Drunken,<br /> Cowardly, and
+      Beastly Death?&mdash;Grant Thorbum's<br /> Charges Examined&mdash;Statement
+      of the Rev. J. D.<br /> Wickham, D.D., shown to be Utterly False&mdash;False<br />
+      Witness of the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D.&mdash;W. H.<br /> Ladd, James
+      Cheetham, and Mary Hinsdale&mdash;Paine's<br /> Note to Cheetham&mdash;Mr-Staple,
+      Mr. Purdy, Col. John<br /> Fellows, James Wilburn, Walter Morton, Clio<br />
+      Rickman, Judge Herttell, H. Margary, Elihu Palmer,<br /> Mr.<br /> <br /> XV<br />
+      <br /> Lovett, all these Testified that Paine was a<br /> Temperate Man&mdash;Washington's
+      Letter to Paine&mdash;<br /> Thomas Jefferson's&mdash;Adams and Washing-ton
+      on<br /> "Common Sense"&mdash;-James Monroe's Tribute&mdash;<br />
+      Quotations from Paine&mdash;Paine's Estate and His<br /> Will&mdash;The
+      Observer's Second Attack (p. 492):<br /> Statements of Elkana Watson,
+      William Carver, Rev.<br /> E. F. Hatfield, D.D., James Cheetham, Dr. J. W.<br />
+      Francis, Dr. Manley, Bishop Fenwick&mdash;Ingersoll's<br /> Second Reply
+      (p. 516): Testimony Garbled by the<br /> Editor of the Observer&mdash;Mary
+      Roscoeand Mary Hins-<br /> dale the Same Person&mdash;Her Reputation for
+      Veracity-<br /> -Letter from Rev. A. W. Cornell&mdash;Grant Thorburn<br />
+      Exposed by James Parton&mdash;The Observer's Admission<br /> that Paine did
+      not Recant&mdash;Affidavit of<br /> <br /> William B. Barnes.<br /> <br />
+      <br /> <a name="linkPREF" id="linkPREF"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>PREFACE</b></big><br />
+      <br /> SEVERAL people, having read the sermons of<br /> Mr. Talmage in which
+      he reviews some of my<br /> lectures, have advised me not to pay the
+      slightest<br /> attention to the Brooklyn divine. They think that<br /> no
+      new arguments have been brought forward, and<br /> they have even gone so
+      far as to say that some of<br /> the best of the old ones have been left
+      out.<br /> <br /> After thinking the matter over, I became satisfied<br />
+      that my friends were mistaken, that they had been car-<br /> ried away by
+      the general current of modern thought,<br /> and were not in a frame of
+      mind to feel the force<br /> of the arguments of Mr. Talmage, or to clearly
+      see<br /> the candor that characterizes his utterances.<br /> <br /> At the
+      first reading, the logic of these sermons does<br /> not impress you. The
+      style is of a character calculated<br /> <br /> VI<br /> <br /> to throw the
+      searcher after facts and arguments off<br /> his guard. The imagination of
+      the preacher is so<br /> lurid; he is so free from the ordinary forms of
+      ex-<br /> pression; his statements are so much stranger than<br /> truth,
+      and his conclusions so utterly independent of<br /> his premises, that the
+      reader is too astonished to<br /> be convinced. Not until I had read with
+      great care<br /> the six discourses delivered for my benefit had I any<br />
+      clear and well-defined idea of the logical force of<br /> Mr. Talmage. I
+      had but little conception of his<br /> candor, was almost totally ignorant
+      of his power to<br /> render the simple complex and the plain obscure by<br />
+      the mutilation of metaphor and the incoherence<br /> of inspired
+      declamation. Neither did I know the<br /> generous accuracy with which he
+      states the position<br /> of an opponent, and the fairness he exhibits in a<br />
+      religious discussion.<br /> <br /> He has without doubt studied the Bible as
+      closely<br /> and critically as he has the works of Buckle and<br /> Darwin,
+      and he seems to have paid as much attention<br /> to scientific subjects as
+      most theologians. His theory<br /> of light and his views upon geology are
+      strikingly<br /> original, and his astronomical theories are certainly as<br />
+      profound as practical. If his statements can be relied<br /> upon, he has
+      successfully refuted the teachings of<br /> <br /> VII<br /> <br /> Humboldt
+      and Haeckel, and exploded the blunders of<br /> Spencer and Tyndall.
+      Besides all this, he has the<br /> courage of his convictions&mdash;he does
+      not quail before a<br /> fact, and he does not strike his colors even to a
+      dem-<br /> onstration. He cares nothing for human experience.<br /> He
+      cannot be put down with statistics, nor driven<br /> from his position by
+      the certainties of science. He<br /> cares neither for the persistence of
+      force, nor the<br /> indestructibility of matter.<br /> <br /> He believes in
+      the Bible, and he has the bravery<br /> to defend his belief. In this, he
+      proudly stands<br /> almost alone. He knows that the salvation of the<br />
+      world depends upon a belief in his creed. He<br /> knows that what are
+      called "the sciences" are of<br /> no importance in the other world. He
+      clearly sees<br /> that it is better to live and die ignorant here, if you<br />
+      can wear a crown of glory hereafter. He knows it<br /> is useless to be
+      perfectly familiar with all the sciences<br /> in this world, and then in
+      the next "lift up your eyes,<br /> being in torment." He knows, too, that
+      God will<br /> not punish any man for denying a fact in science.<br /> A man
+      can deny the rotundity of the earth, the<br /> attraction of gravitation,
+      the form of the earths orbit,<br /> or the nebular hypothesis, with perfect
+      impunity.<br /> He is not bound to be correct upon any philo-<br /> <br />
+      VIII<br /> <br /> sophical subject. He is at liberty to deny and ridi-<br />
+      cule the rule of three, conic sections, and even the<br /> multiplication
+      table. God permits every human<br /> being to be mistaken upon every
+      subject but one.<br /> No man can lose his soul by denying physical facts.<br />
+      Jehovah does not take the slightest pride in his geology,<br /> <br /> or in
+      his astronomy, or in mathematics, or in<br /> any school of philosophy&mdash;he
+      is jealous only of his<br /> reputation as the author of the Bible. You may
+      deny<br /> everything else in the universe except that book.<br /> This
+      being so, Mr. Talmage takes the safe side, and<br /> insists that the Bible
+      is inspired. He knows that at<br /> the day of judgment, not a scientific
+      question will be<br /> asked. He knows that the H&aelig;ckels and Huxleys<br />
+      will, on that terrible day, regret that they ever<br /> learned to read. He
+      knows that there is no "saving<br /> grace" in any department of human
+      knowledge; that<br /> mathematics and all the exact sciences and all the<br />
+      philosophies will be worse than useless. He knows<br /> that inventors,
+      discoverers, thinkers and investigators,<br /> have no claim upon the mercy
+      of Jehovah; that the<br /> educated will envy the ignorant, and that the
+      writers<br /> and thinkers will curse their books.<br /> <br /> He knows that
+      man cannot be saved through<br /> what he knows&mdash;but only by means of
+      what he<br /> <br /> IX<br /> <br /> believes. Theology is not a science. If
+      it were,<br /> God would forgive his children for being mistaken<br /> about
+      it. If it could be proved like geology, or<br /> astronomy, there would be
+      no merit in believing it.<br /> From a belief in the Bible, Mr. Talmage is
+      not to be<br /> driven by uninspired evidence. He knows that his<br /> logic
+      is liable to lead him astray, and that his reason<br /> cannot be depended
+      upon. He believes that scien-<br /> tific men are no authority in matters
+      concerning<br /> which nothing can be known, and he does not wish<br /> to
+      put his soul in peril, by examining by the light of<br /> reason, the
+      evidences of the supernatural.<br /> <br /> He is perfectly consistent with
+      his creed. What<br /> happens to us here is of no consequence compared<br />
+      with eternal joy or pain. The ambitions, honors,<br /> glories and triumphs
+      of this world, compared with<br /> eternal things, are less than naught.<br />
+      <br /> Better a cross here and a crown there, than a feast<br /> here and a
+      fire there.<br /> <br /> Lazarus was far more fortunate than Dives. The<br />
+      purple and fine linen of this short life are as nothing<br /> compared with
+      the robes of the redeemed.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage knows that philosophy is
+      unsafe&mdash;<br /> that the sciences are sirens luring souls to eternal<br />
+      wreck. He knows that the deluded searchers after<br /> <br /> X<br /> <br />
+      facts are planting thorns in their own pillows&mdash;that<br /> the
+      geologists are digging pits for themselves, and<br /> that the astronomers
+      are robbing their souls of the<br /> heaven they explore. He knows that
+      thought, capa-<br /> city, and intellectual courage are dangerous, and this<br />
+      belief gives him a feeling of personal security.<br /> <br /> The Bible is
+      adapted to the world as it is. Most<br /> people are ignorant, and but few
+      have the capacity to<br /> comprehend philosophical and scientific
+      subjects, and<br /> if salvation depended upon understanding even one<br />
+      of the sciences, nearly everybody would be lost.<br /> Mr. Talmage sees
+      that it was exceedingly merciful in<br /> God to base salvation on belief
+      instead of on brain.<br /> Millions can believe, while only a few can
+      understand.<br /> Even the effort to understand is a kind of treason<br />
+      born of pride and ingratitude. This being so, it is far<br /> safer, far
+      better, to be credulous than critical. You are<br /> offered an infinite
+      reward for believing the Bible. If<br /> you examine it you may find it
+      impossible for you to<br /> believe it. Consequently, examination is
+      dangerous.<br /> Mr. Talmage knows that it is not necessary to under-<br />
+      stand the Bible in order to believe it. You must be-<br /> lieve it first.
+      Then, if on reading it you find anything<br /> that appears false, absurd,
+      or impossible, you may<br /> be sure that it is only an appearance, and
+      that the real<br /> <br /> XI<br /> <br /> fault is in yourself. It is certain
+      that persons wholly<br /> incapable of reasoning are absolutely safe, and
+      that<br /> to be born brainless is to be saved in advance.<br /> <br /> Mr.
+      Talmage takes the ground,&mdash;and certainly from<br /> his point of view
+      nothing can be more reasonable<br /> &mdash;that thought should be avoided,
+      after one has<br /> "experienced religion" and has been the subject of<br />
+      "regeneration." Every sinner should listen to ser-<br /> mons, read
+      religious books, and keep thinking, until<br /> he becomes a Christian.
+      Then he should stop. After<br /> that, thinking is not the road to heaven.
+      The real<br /> point and the real difficulty is to stop thinking just at<br />
+      the right time. Young Christians, who have no idea<br /> of what they are
+      doing, often go on thinking after<br /> joining the church, and in this way
+      heresy is born, and<br /> heresy is often the father of infidelity. If
+      Christians<br /> would follow the advice and example of Mr. Talmage<br />
+      all disagreements about doctrine would be avoided.<br /> In this way the
+      church could secure absolute in-<br /> tellectual peace and all the
+      disputes, heartburnings,<br /> jealousies and hatreds born of thought,
+      discussion<br /> and reasoning, would be impossible.<br /> <br /> In the
+      estimation of Mr. Talmage, the man who<br /> doubts and examines is not fit
+      for the society of<br /> angels. There are no disputes, no discussions in<br />
+      <br /> XII<br /> <br /> heaven. The angels do not think; they believe,<br />
+      they enjoy. The highest form of religion is re-<br /> pression. We should
+      conquer the passions and<br /> destroy desire. We should control the mind
+      and<br /> stop thinking. In this way we "offer ourselves a<br /> "living
+      sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God." When<br /> desire dies, when thought
+      ceases, we shall be pure.<br /> &mdash;This is heaven.<br /> <br /> Robert G.
+      Ingersoll.<br /> <br /> Washington, D. C,<br /> <br /> April; 1882.<br /> <br />
+      <br /> <a name="link0002" id="link0002"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>INGERSOLL'S
+      INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.</b></big><br /> <a name="link0003" id="link0003"></a><br />
+      <br /> <big><b>FIRST INTERVIEW.</b></big><br /> <br /> <i>Polonius. My lord,
+      I will use them according to<br /> their desert.<br /> <br /> Hamlet. God's
+      bodikins, man, much better: use<br /> every man after his desert, and who
+      should 'scape<br /> whipping? Use them after your own honor and<br />
+      dignity: the less they deserve, the more merit is<br /> in your bounty.</i><br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have you read the sermon of<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage,
+      in which he exposes your mis-<br /> representations?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      I have read such reports as appeared in<br /> some of the New York papers.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you think of what he has<br /> to say?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Some time ago I gave it as my opinion<br /> of Mr.
+      Talmage that, while he was a man of most<br /> excellent judgment, he was
+      somewhat deficient in<br /> imagination. I find that he has the disease
+      that seems<br /> <br /> 16<br /> <br /> to afflict most theologians, and that
+      is, a kind of intel-<br /> lectual toadyism, that uses the names of
+      supposed great<br /> men instead of arguments. It is perfectly astonishing<br />
+      to the average preacher that any one should have the<br /> temerity to
+      differ, on the subject of theology, with<br /> Andrew Jackson, Daniel
+      Webster, and other gentlemen<br /> eminent for piety during their lives,
+      but who,<br /> as a rule, expressed their theological opinions a few<br />
+      minutes before dissolution. These ministers are per-<br /> fectly delighted
+      to have some great politician, some<br /> judge, soldier, or president,
+      certify to the truth of the<br /> Bible and to the moral character of Jesus
+      Christ.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage insists that if a witness is false in one<br />
+      particular, his entire testimony must be thrown away.<br /> Daniel Webster
+      was in favor of the Fugitive Slave<br /> Law, and thought it the duty of
+      the North to capture<br /> the poor slave-mother. He was willing to stand<br />
+      between a human being and his freedom. He was<br /> willing to assist in
+      compelling persons to work without<br /> any pay except such marks of the
+      lash as they might<br /> receive. Yet this man is brought forward as a
+      witness<br /> for the truth of the gospel. If he was false in his<br />
+      testimony as to liberty, what is his affidavit worth as<br /> to the value
+      of Christianity? Andrew Jackson was a<br /> brave man, a good general, a
+      patriot second to none,<br /> <br /> 17<br /> <br /> an excellent judge of
+      horses, and a brave duelist. I<br /> admit that in his old age he relied
+      considerably upon<br /> the atonement. I think Jackson was really a very
+      great<br /> man, and probably no President impressed himself<br /> more
+      deeply upon the American people than the hero<br /> of New Orleans, but as
+      a theologian he was, in my<br /> judgment, a most decided failure, and his
+      opinion as<br /> to the authenticity of the Scriptures is of no earthly<br />
+      value. It was a subject upon which he knew probably<br /> as little as Mr.
+      Talmage does about modern infidelity.<br /> Thousands of people will quote
+      Jackson in favor of<br /> religion, about which he knew nothing, and yet
+      have<br /> no confidence in his political opinions, although he<br />
+      devoted the best part of his life to politics.<br /> <br /> No man should
+      quote the words of another, in place<br /> of an argument, unless he is
+      willing to accept all the<br /> opinions of that man. Lord Bacon denied the
+      Copernican<br /> <br /> system of astronomy, and, according to Mr.<br />
+      Talmage, having made that mistake, his opinions upon<br /> other subjects
+      are equally worthless. Mr. Wesley<br /> believed in ghosts, witches, and
+      personal devils, yet<br /> upon many subjects I have no doubt his opinions
+      were<br /> correct. The truth is, that nearly everybody is right<br /> about
+      some things and wrong about most things; and<br /> if a man's testimony is
+      not to be taken until he is<br /> <br /> 18<br /> <br /> right on every
+      subject, witnesses will be extremely<br /> scarce.<br /> <br /> Personally, I
+      care nothing about names. It makes<br /> no difference to me what the
+      supposed great men of<br /> the past have said, except as what they have
+      said<br /> contains an argument; and that argument is worth to<br /> me the
+      force it naturally has upon my mind. Chris-<br /> tians forget that in the
+      realm of reason there are no<br /> serfs and no monarchs. When you submit
+      to an<br /> argument, you do not submit to the man who made it.<br />
+      Christianity demands a certain obedience, a certain<br /> blind,
+      unreasoning faith, and parades before the eyes<br /> of the ignorant, with
+      great pomp and pride, the names<br /> of kings, soldiers, and statesmen who
+      have admitted<br /> the truth of the Bible. Mr. Talmage introduces as a<br />
+      witness the Rev. Theodore Parker. This same The-<br /> odore Parker
+      denounced the Presbyterian creed as<br /> the most infamous of all creeds,
+      and said that the worst<br /> heathen god, wearing a necklace of live
+      snakes, was a<br /> representation of mercy when compared with the God<br />
+      of John Calvin. Now, if this witness is false in any<br /> particular, of
+      course he cannot be believed, according<br /> to Mr. Talmage, upon any
+      subject, and yet Mr.<br /> Talmage introduces him upon the stand as a good<br />
+      witness.<br /> <br /> 19<br /> <br /> Although I care but little for names,
+      still I will sug-<br /> gest that, in all probability, Humboldt knew more
+      upon<br /> this subject than all the pastors in the world. I cer-<br />
+      tainly would have as much confidence in the opinion<br /> of Goethe as in
+      that of William H. Seward; and as<br /> between Seward and Lincoln, I
+      should take Lincoln;<br /> and when you come to Presidents, for my part, if
+      I<br /> were compelled to pin my faith on the sleeve of any-<br /> body, I
+      should take Jefferson's coat in preference to<br /> Jackson's. I believe
+      that Haeckel is, to say the least,<br /> the equal of any theologian we
+      have in this country,<br /> and the late John W. Draper certainly knew as
+      much<br /> upon these great questions as the average parson. I<br /> believe
+      that Darwin has investigated some of these<br /> things, that Tyndall and
+      Huxley have turned their<br /> minds somewhat in the same direction, that
+      Helmholtz<br /> has a few opinions, and that, in fact, thousands of able,<br />
+      intelligent and honest men differ almost entirely with<br /> Webster and
+      Jackson.<br /> <br /> So far as I am concerned, I think more of reasons<br />
+      than of reputations, more of principles than of persons,<br /> more of
+      nature than of names, more of facts, than of<br /> faiths.<br /> <br /> It is
+      the same with books as with persons. Proba-<br /> bly there is not a book
+      in the world entirely destitute<br /> <br /> 20<br /> <br /> of truth, and not
+      one entirely exempt from error.<br /> The Bible is like other books. There
+      are mistakes in<br /> it, side by side with truths,&mdash;passages
+      inculcating<br /> murder, and others exalting mercy; laws devilish and<br />
+      tyrannical, and others filled with wisdom and justice.<br /> It is foolish
+      to say that if you accept a part, you must<br /> accept the whole. You must
+      accept that which com-<br /> mends itself to your heart and brain. There
+      never was<br /> a doctrine that a witness, or a book, should be thrown<br />
+      entirely away, because false in one particular. If in<br /> any particular
+      the book, or the man, tells the truth, to<br /> that extent the truth
+      should be accepted.<br /> <br /> Truth is made no worse by the one who tells
+      it,<br /> and a lie gets no real benefit from the reputation of its<br />
+      author.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you think of the statement<br />
+      that a general belief in your teachings would fill all<br /> the
+      penitentiaries, and that in twenty years there<br /> would be a hell in
+      this world worse than the one<br /> expected in the other?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      My creed is this:<br /> <br /> 1. Happiness is the only good.<br /> <br /> 2.
+      The way to be happy, is to make others happy.<br /> <br /> 21<br /> <br />
+      Other things being equal, that man is happiest who is<br /> nearest just&mdash;who
+      is truthful, merciful and intelligent&mdash;<br /> in other words, the one
+      who lives in accordance with<br /> the conditions of life.<br /> <br /> 3.
+      The time to be happy is now, and the place to<br /> be happy, is here.<br />
+      <br /> 4. Reason is the lamp of the mind&mdash;the only torch<br /> of
+      progress; and instead of blowing that out and de-<br /> pending upon
+      darkness and dogma, it is far better to<br /> increase that sacred light.<br />
+      <br /> 5. Every man should be the intellectual proprietor<br /> of himself,
+      honest with himself, and intellectually<br /> hospitable; and upon every
+      brain reason should be<br /> enthroned as king.<br /> <br /> 6. Every man
+      must bear the consequences, at<br /> least of his own actions. If he puts
+      his hands in<br /> the fire, his hands must smart, and not the hands of<br />
+      another. In other words: each man must eat the<br /> fruit of the tree he
+      plants.<br /> <br /> I can not conceive that the teaching of these doc-<br />
+      trines would fill penitentiaries, or crowd the gallows.<br /> The doctrine
+      of forgiveness&mdash;the idea that somebody<br /> else can suffer in place
+      of the guilty&mdash;the notion that<br /> just at the last the whole
+      account can be settled&mdash;<br /> these ideas, doctrines, and notions are
+      calculated to fill<br /> <br /> 22<br /> <br /> penitentiaries. Nothing breeds
+      extravagance like the<br /> credit system.<br /> <br /> Most criminals of the
+      present day are orthodox be-<br /> lievers, and the gallows seems to be the
+      last round of<br /> the ladder reaching from earth to heaven. The Rev.<br />
+      Dr. Sunderland, of this city, in his sermon on the assas-<br /> sination of
+      Garfield, takes the ground that God per-<br /> mitted the murder for the
+      purpose of opening the eyes<br /> of the people to the evil effects of
+      infidelity. Accord-<br /> ing to this minister, God, in order to show his
+      hatred<br /> of infidelity, "inspired," or allowed, one Christian to<br />
+      assassinate another.<br /> <br /> Religion and morality do not necessarily
+      go together.<br /> Mr. Talmage will insist to-day that morality is not<br />
+      sufficient to save any man from eternal punishment.<br /> As a matter of
+      fact, religion has often been the enemy<br /> of morality. The moralist has
+      been denounced by the<br /> theologians. He sustains the same relation to
+      Chris-<br /> tianity that the moderate drinker does to the total-<br />
+      abstinence society. The total-abstinence people say<br /> that the example
+      of the moderate drinker is far worse<br /> upon the young than that of the
+      drunkard&mdash;that the<br /> drunkard is a warning, while the moderate
+      drinker is<br /> a perpetual temptation. So Christians say of moral-<br />
+      ists. According to them, the moralist sets a worse<br /> <br /> 23<br />
+      <br /> example than the criminal. The moralist not only in-<br /> sists that
+      a man can be a good citizen, a kind husband,<br /> an affectionate father,
+      without religion, but demon-<br /> strates the truth of his doctrine by his
+      own life;<br /> whereas the criminal admits that in and of himself he<br />
+      is nothing, and can do nothing, but that he needs<br /> assistance from the
+      church and its ministers.<br /> <br /> The worst criminals of the modern
+      world have been<br /> Christians&mdash;I mean by that, believers in
+      Christianity&mdash;<br /> and the most monstrous crimes of the modern world<br />
+      have been committed by the most zealous believers.<br /> There is nothing
+      in orthodox religion, apart from the<br /> morality it teaches, to prevent
+      the commission oF crime.<br /> On the other hand, the perpetual proffer of
+      forgiveness<br /> is a direct premium upon what Christians are pleased<br />
+      to call the commission of sin.<br /> <br /> Christianity has produced no
+      greater character than<br /> Epictetus, no greater sovereign than Marcus
+      Aurelius.<br /> The wickedness of the past was a good deal like that<br />
+      of the present. As a rule, kings have been wicked in<br /> direct
+      proportion to their power&mdash;their power having<br /> been lessened,
+      their crimes have decreased. As a<br /> matter of fact, paganism, of
+      itself, did not produce any<br /> great men; neither has Christianity.
+      Millions of in-<br /> fluences determine individual character, and the re-<br />
+      <br /> 24<br /> <br /> ligion of the country in which a man happens to be<br />
+      born may determine many of his opinions, without<br /> influencing, to any
+      great extent, his real character.<br /> <br /> There have been brave,
+      honest, and intelligent men<br /> in and out of every church.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Mr. Talmage says that you insist that,<br /> according to the Bible, the
+      universe was made out of<br /> nothing, and he denounces your statement as
+      a gross<br /> misrepresentation. What have you stated upon that<br />
+      subject?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. What I said was substantially this: "We<br />
+      "are told in the first chapter of Genesis, that in the<br /> "beginning God
+      created the heaven and the earth.<br /> "If this means anything, it means
+      that God pro-<br /> "duced&mdash;caused to exist, called into being&mdash;the<br />
+      "heaven and the earth. It will not do to say that<br /> "God formed the
+      heaven and the earth of previously<br /> "existing matter. Moses conveys,
+      and intended to<br /> "convey, the idea that the matter of which the<br />
+      "universe is composed was created."<br /> <br /> This has always been my
+      position. I did not sup-<br /> pose that nothing was used as the raw
+      material; but<br /> <br /> if the Mosaic account means anything, it means
+      that<br /> whereas there was nothing, God caused something to<br /> <br /> 25<br />
+      <br /> exist&mdash;created what we know as matter. I can not<br /> conceive
+      of something being made, created, without<br /> anything to make anything
+      with. I have no more<br /> confidence in fiat worlds than I have in fiat
+      money.<br /> Mr. Talmage tells us that God did not make the uni-<br /> verse
+      out of <i>nothing</i>, but out of "omnipotence."<br /> Exactly how God
+      changed "omnipotence" into matter<br /> is not stated. If there was <i>nothing</i>
+      in the universe,<br /> <i>omnipotence</i> could do you no good. The weakest
+      man<br /> in the world can lift as much <i>nothing</i> as God.<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Talmage seems to think that to create something<br /> from nothing is
+      simply a question of strength&mdash;that it<br /> requires infinite muscle&mdash;that
+      it is only a question of<br /> biceps. Of course, omnipotence is an
+      attribute, not an<br /> entity, not a raw material; and the idea that
+      something<br /> can be made out of omnipotence&mdash;using that as the<br />
+      raw material&mdash;is infinitely absurd. It would have<br /> been equally
+      logical to say that God made the universe<br /> out of his omniscience, or
+      his omnipresence, or his<br /> unchangeableness, or out of his honesty, his
+      holiness,<br /> or his incapacity to do evil. I confess my utter in-<br />
+      ability to understand, or even to suspect, what the<br /> reverend
+      gentleman means, when he says that God<br /> created the universe out of
+      his "omnipotence."<br /> <br /> I admit that the Bible does not tell when
+      God created<br /> <br /> 26<br /> <br /> the universe. It is simply said that
+      he did this "in the<br /> beginning." We are left, however, to infer that
+      "the<br /> beginning" was Monday morning, and that on the<br /> first Monday
+      God created the matter in an exceedingly<br /> chaotic state; that on
+      Tuesday he made a firmament<br /> to divide the waters from the waters;
+      that on Wednes-<br /> day he gathered the waters together in seas and<br />
+      allowed the dry land to appear. We are also told that<br /> on that day
+      "the earth brought forth grass and herb<br /> "yielding seed after his
+      kind, and the tree yielding<br /> "fruit, whose seed was in itself, after
+      his kind." This<br /> was before the creation of the sun, but Mr. Talmage<br />
+      takes the ground that there are many other sources of<br /> light; that
+      "there may have been volcanoes in active<br /> operation on other planets."
+      I have my doubts,<br /> however, about the light of volcanoes being
+      sufficient<br /> to produce or sustain vegetable life, and think it a<br />
+      little doubtful about trees growing only by "volcanic<br /> glare." Neither
+      do I think one could depend upon<br /> "three thousand miles of liquid
+      granite" for the pro-<br /> duction of grass and trees, nor upon "light
+      that rocks<br /> might emit in the process of crystallization." I doubt<br />
+      whether trees would succeed simply with the assistance<br /> of the "Aurora
+      Borealis or the Aurora Australis."<br /> There are other sources of light,
+      not mentioned by<br /> <br /> 27<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage&mdash;lightning-bugs,
+      phosphorescent beetles,<br /> and fox-fire. I should think that it would be
+      humili-<br /> ating, in this age, for an orthodox preacher to insist<br />
+      that vegetation could exist upon this planet without the<br /> light of the
+      sun&mdash;that trees could grow, blossom and<br /> bear fruit, having no
+      light but the flames of volcanoes,<br /> or that emitted by liquid granite,
+      or thrown off by the<br /> crystallization of rocks.<br /> <br /> There is
+      another thing, also, that should not be for-<br /> gotten, and that is,
+      that there is an even balance for-<br /> ever kept between the totals of
+      animal and vegetable<br /> life&mdash;that certain forms of animal life go
+      with certain<br /> forms of vegetable life. Mr. Haeckel has shown that<br />
+      "in the first epoch, alg&aelig; and skull-less vertebrates<br /> were found
+      together; in the second, ferns and fishes;<br /> in the third, pines and
+      reptiles; in the fourth, foliaceous<br /> <br /> forests and mammals."
+      Vegetable and animal<br /> life sustain a necessary relation; they exist
+      together;<br /> they act and interact, and each depends upon the other.<br />
+      The real point of difference between Mr. Talmage and<br /> myself is this:
+      He says that God made the universe<br /> out of his "omnipotence," and I
+      say that, although I<br /> know nothing whatever upon the subject, my
+      opinion<br /> is, that the universe has existed from eternity&mdash;that it<br />
+      continually changes in form, but that it never was<br /> <br /> 28<br />
+      <br /> created or called into being by any power. I think<br /> that all
+      that is, is all the God there is.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage
+      charges you with having<br /> misrepresented the Bible story of the deluge.
+      Has he<br /> correctly stated your position?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Mr.
+      Talmage takes the ground that the<br /> flood was only partial, and was,
+      after all, not much of a<br /> flood. The Bible tells us that God said he
+      would<br /> "destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life from<br />
+      "under heaven, and that everything that is in the<br /> "earth shall die;"
+      that God also said: "I will destroy<br /> "man, whom I have created, from
+      the face of the<br /> "earth; both man and beast and the creeping thing<br />
+      "and the fowls of the air, and every living substance<br /> "that I have
+      made will I destroy from off the face of<br /> "the earth."<br /> <br /> I
+      did not suppose that there was any miracle in the<br /> Bible larger than
+      the credulity of Mr. Talmage. The<br /> flood story, however, seems to be a
+      little more than<br /> he can bear. He is like the witness who stated that<br />
+      he had read <i>Gullivers Travels</i>, the <i>Stories of Mun-<br /> chausen</i>,
+      and the <i>Flying Wife</i>, including <i>Robinson<br /> Crusoe</i>, and
+      believed them all; but that Wirt's <i>Life of<br /> Patrick Henry</i> was a
+      litde more than he could stand.<br /> <br /> 29<br /> <br /> It is strange
+      that a man who believes that God<br /> created the universe out of
+      "omnipotence" should<br /> believe that he had not enough omnipotence left
+      to<br /> drown a world the size of this. Mr. Talmage seeks<br /> to make the
+      story of the flood reasonable. The<br /> moment it is reasonable, it ceases
+      to be miraculous.<br /> Certainly God cannot afford to reward a man with<br />
+      eternal joy for believing a reasonable story. Faith is<br /> only necessary
+      when the story is unreasonable, and if<br /> the flood only gets small
+      enough, I can believe it<br /> myself. I ask for evidence, and Mr. Talmage
+      seeks<br /> to make the story so little that it can be believed<br />
+      without evidence. He tells us that it was a kind of<br /> "local option"
+      flood&mdash;a little wet for that part of the<br /> country.<br /> <br /> Why
+      was it necessary to save the birds? They<br /> certainly could have gotten
+      out of the way of a real<br /> small flood. Of the birds, Noah took
+      fourteen of each<br /> species. He was commanded to take of the fowls of
+      the<br /> air by sevens&mdash;seven of each sex&mdash;and, as there are<br />
+      at least 12,500 species, Noah collected an aviary of<br /> about 175,000
+      birds, provided the flood was general.<br /> If it was local, there are no
+      means of determining the<br /> number. But why, if the flood was local,
+      should he<br /> have taken any of the fowls of the air into his ark?<br />
+      <br /> 30<br /> <br /> All they had to do was to fly away, or "roost high;"<br />
+      and it would have been just as easy for God to have<br /> implanted in
+      them, for the moment, the instinct of<br /> getting out of the way as the
+      instinct of hunting the ark.<br /> It would have been quite a saving of
+      room and pro-<br /> visions, and would have materially lessened the labor<br />
+      and anxiety of Noah and his sons.<br /> <br /> Besides, if it had been a
+      partial flood, and great<br /> enough to cover the highest mountains in
+      that country,<br /> the highest mountain being about seventeen thousand<br />
+      feet, the flood would have been covered with a sheet<br /> of ice several
+      thousand feet in thickness. If a column<br /> of water could have been
+      thrown seventeen thousand<br /> feet high and kept stationary, several
+      thousand feet<br /> of the upper end would have frozen. If, however,<br />
+      the deluge was general, then the atmosphere would<br /> have been forced
+      out the same on all sides, and the<br /> climate remained substantially
+      normal.<br /> <br /> Nothing can be more absurd than to attempt to<br />
+      explain the flood by calling it partial.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage also says
+      that the window ran clear<br /> round the ark, and that if I had only known
+      as much<br /> Hebrew as a man could put on his little finger, I<br /> would
+      have known that the window went clear round.<br /> To this I reply that, if
+      his position is correct, then the<br /> <br /> 31<br /> <br /> original
+      translators of King James' edition did not<br /> know as much Hebrew as
+      they could have put on<br /> their little fingers; and yet I am obliged to
+      believe<br /> their translation or be eternally damned. If the<br /> window
+      went clear round, the inspired writer should<br /> have said so, and the
+      learned translators should have<br /> given us the truth. No one pretends
+      that there was<br /> more than one door, and yet the same language is<br />
+      used about the door, except this&mdash;that the exact size<br /> of the
+      window is given, and the only peculiarity men-<br /> tioned as to the door
+      is that it shut from the outside.<br /> For any one to see that Mr. Talmage
+      is wrong on the<br /> window question, it is only necessary to read the
+      story<br /> of the deluge.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage also endeavors to
+      decrease the depth<br /> of the flood. If the flood did not cover the
+      highest<br /> hills, many people might have been saved. He also<br />
+      insists that all the water did not come from the rains,<br /> but that "the
+      fountains of the great deep were broken<br /> "up." What are "the fountains
+      of the great deep"?<br /> How would their being "broken up" increase the<br />
+      depth of the water? He seems to imagine that these<br /> "fountains" were
+      in some way imprisoned&mdash;anxious<br /> to get to the surface, and that,
+      at that time, an oppor-<br /> tunity was given for water to run up hill, or
+      in some<br /> <br /> 32<br /> <br /> mysterious way to rise above its level.
+      According to<br /> the account, the ark was at the mercy of the waves for<br />
+      at least seven months. If this flood was only partial,<br /> it seems a
+      little curious that the water did not seek its<br /> level in less than
+      seven months. With anything like<br /> a fair chance, by that time most of
+      it would have<br /> found its way to the sea again.<br /> <br /> There is in
+      the literature of ignorance no more<br /> perfectly absurd and cruel story
+      than that of the<br /> deluge.<br /> <br /> I am very sorry that Mr. Talmage
+      should disagree<br /> with some of the great commentators. Dr. Scott<br />
+      tells us that, in all probability, the angels assisted in<br /> getting the
+      animals into the ark. Dr. Henry insists<br /> that the waters in the bowels
+      of the earth, at God's<br /> command, sprung up and flooded the earth. Dr.<br />
+      Clark tells us that it would have been much easier<br /> for God to have
+      destroyed all the people and made<br /> some new ones, but that he did not
+      want to waste<br /> anything. Dr. Henry also tells us that the lions, while<br />
+      in the ark, ate straw like oxen. Nothing could be<br /> more amusing than
+      to see a few lions eating good,<br /> dry straw. This commentator assures
+      us that the<br /> waters rose so high that the loftiest mountains were<br />
+      overflowed fifteen cubits, so that salvation was not<br /> <br /> 33<br />
+      <br /> hoped for from any hills or mountains. He tells us<br /> that some of
+      the people got on top of the ark, and<br /> hoped to shift for themselves,
+      but that, in all proba-<br /> bility, they were washed off by the rain.
+      When we<br /> consider that the rain must have fallen at the rate of<br />
+      about eight hundred feet a day, I am inclined to think<br /> that they were
+      washed off.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage has clearly misrepresented the Bible.<br />
+      He is not prepared to believe the story as it is told.<br /> The seeds of
+      infidelity seem to be germinating in his<br /> mind. His position no doubt
+      will be a great relief to<br /> most of his hearers. After this, their
+      credulity will<br /> not be strained. They can say that there was probably<br />
+      quite a storm, some rain, to an extent that rendered it<br /> necessary for
+      Noah and his family&mdash;his dogs, cats,<br /> and chickens&mdash;to get
+      in a boat. This would not be<br /> unreasonable. The same thing happens
+      almost every<br /> year on the shores of great rivers, and consequently<br />
+      the story of the flood is an exceedingly reasonable<br /> one.<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Talmage also endeavors to account for the<br /> miraculous collection
+      of the animals in the ark by<br /> the universal instinct to get out of the
+      rain. There<br /> are at least two objections to this: 1. The animals<br />
+      went into the ark before the rain commenced; 2. I<br /> <br /> 34<br /> <br />
+      have never noticed any great desire on the part of<br /> ducks, geese, and
+      loons to get out of the water. Mr.<br /> Talmage must have been misled by a
+      line from an old<br /> nursery book that says: "And the little fishes got<br />
+      "under the bridge to keep out of the rain." He tells<br /> us that Noah
+      described what he saw. He is the first<br /> theologian who claims that
+      Genesis was written by<br /> Noah, or that Noah wrote any account of the
+      flood.<br /> Most Christians insist that the account of the flood<br /> was
+      written by Moses, and that he was inspired to<br /> write it. Of course, it
+      will not do for me to say that<br /> Mr. Talmage has misrepresented the
+      facts.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. You are also charged with misrepresen-<br />
+      tation in your statement as to where the ark at last<br /> rested. It is
+      claimed by Mr. Talmage that there is<br /> nothing in the Bible to show
+      that the ark rested on<br /> the highest mountains.<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Of course I have no knowledge as to<br /> where the ark really came to
+      anchor, but after it struck<br /> bottom, we are told that a dove was sent
+      out, and<br /> that the dove found no place whereon to rest her<br /> foot.
+      If the ark touched ground in the low country,<br /> surely the mountains
+      were out of water, and an or-<br /> dinary mountain furnishes, as a rule,
+      space enough<br /> <br /> 35<br /> <br /> for a dove's foot. We must infer
+      that the ark rested<br /> on the only land then above water, or near enough<br />
+      above water to strike the keel of Noah's boat. Mount<br /> Ararat is about
+      seventeen thousand feet high; so I<br /> take it that the top of that
+      mountain was where Noah<br /> ran aground&mdash;otherwise, the account
+      means nothing.<br /> <br /> Here Mr. Talmage again shows his tendency to<br />
+      belittle the miracles of the Bible. I am astonished<br /> that he should
+      doubt the power of God to keep an<br /> ark on a mountain seventeen
+      thousand feet high.<br /> He could have changed the climate for that
+      occasion.<br /> He could have made all the rocks and glaciers pro-<br />
+      duce wheat and corn in abundance. Certainly God,<br /> who could overwhelm
+      a world with a flood, had the<br /> power to change every law and fact in
+      nature.<br /> <br /> I am surprised that Mr. Talmage is not willing to<br />
+      believe the story as it is told. What right has he to<br /> question the
+      statements of an inspired writer? Why<br /> should he set up his judgment
+      against the Websters<br /> and Jacksons? Is it not infinitely impudent in
+      him<br /> to contrast his penny-dip with the sun of inspiration?<br /> What
+      right has he to any opinion upon the subject?<br /> He must take the Bible
+      as it reads. He should<br /> remember that the greater the miracle the
+      greater<br /> should be his faith.<br /> <br /> 36<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      You do not seem to have any great<br /> opinion of the chemical,
+      geological, and agricultural<br /> views expressed by Mr. Talmage?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. You must remember that Mr. Talmage<br /> has a certain
+      thing to defend. He takes the Bible as<br /> actually true, and with the
+      Bible as his standard, he<br /> compares and measures all sciences. He does
+      not<br /> study geology to find whether the Mosaic account is<br /> true,
+      but he reads the Mosaic account for the purpose<br /> of showing that
+      geology can not be depended upon.<br /> His idea that "one day is as a
+      thousand years with<br /> "God," and that therefore the "days" mentioned in
+      the<br /> Mosaic account are not days of twenty-four hours, but<br /> long
+      periods, is contradicted by the Bible itself. The<br /> great reason given
+      for keeping the Sabbath day is, that<br /> "God rested on the seventh day
+      and was refreshed."<br /> Now, it does not say that he rested on the
+      "seventh<br /> "period," or the "seventh good&mdash;while," or the<br />
+      "seventh long-time," but on the "seventh day." In<br /> imitation of this
+      example we are also to rest&mdash;not on<br /> the seventh good-while, but
+      on the seventh day.<br /> Nothing delights the average minister more than
+      to<br /> find that a passage of Scripture is capable of several<br />
+      interpretations. Nothing in the inspired book is so<br /> <br /> 37<br />
+      <br /> dangerous as accuracy. If the holy writer uses<br /> general terms,
+      an ingenious theologian can harmonize<br /> a seemingly preposterous
+      statement with the most<br /> obdurate fact. An "inspired" book should
+      contain<br /> neither statistics nor dates&mdash;as few names as possible,<br />
+      and not one word about geology or astronomy. Mr.<br /> Talmage is doing the
+      best he can to uphold the fables<br /> of the Jews. They are the foundation
+      of his faith.<br /> He believes in the water of the past and the fire of
+      the<br /> future&mdash;in the God of flood and flame&mdash;the eternal<br />
+      torturer of his helpless children.<br /> <br /> It is exceedingly
+      unfortunate that Mr. Talmage does<br /> not appreciate the importance of
+      good manners, that<br /> he does not rightly estimate the convincing power
+      of<br /> kindness and good nature. It is unfortunate that a<br /> Christian,
+      believing in universal forgiveness, should<br /> exhibit so much of the
+      spirit of detraction, that he<br /> should run so easily and naturally into
+      epithets, and<br /> that he should mistake vituperation for logic. Thou-<br />
+      sands of people, knowing but little of the mysteries of<br /> Christianity&mdash;never
+      having studied theology,&mdash;may<br /> become prejudiced against the
+      church, and doubt the<br /> divine origin of a religion whose defenders
+      seem to<br /> rely, at least to a great degree, upon malignant per-<br />
+      sonalities. Mr. Talmage should remember that in a<br /> <br /> 38<br /> <br />
+      discussion of this kind, he is supposed to represent a<br /> being of
+      infinite wisdom and goodness. Surely, the<br /> representative of the
+      infinite can afford to be candid,<br /> can afford to be kind. When he
+      contemplates the<br /> condition of a fellow-being destitute of religion, a<br />
+      fellow-being now travelling the thorny path to eternal<br /> fire, he
+      should be filled with pity instead of hate.<br /> Instead of deforming his
+      mouth with scorn, his eyes<br /> should be filled with tears. He should
+      take into<br /> consideration the vast difference between an infidel<br />
+      and a minister of the gospel,&mdash;knowing, as he does,<br /> that a crown
+      of glory has been prepared for the<br /> minister, and that flames are
+      waiting for the soul<br /> of the unbeliever. He should bear with
+      philosophic<br /> fortitude the apparent success of the skeptic, for a<br />
+      few days in this brief life, since he knows that in a<br /> little while
+      the question will be eternally settled in<br /> his favor, and that the
+      humiliation of a day is as<br /> nothing compared with the victory of
+      eternity. In<br /> this world, the skeptic appears to have the best<br /> of
+      the argument; logic seems to be on the side<br /> of blasphemy; common
+      sense apparently goes hand<br /> in hand with infidelity, and the few
+      things we are<br /> absolutely certain of, seem inconsistent with the<br />
+      Christian creeds.<br /> <br /> 39<br /> <br /> This, however, as Mr. Talmage
+      well knows, is but<br /> apparent. God has arranged the world in this way<br />
+      for the purpose of testing the Christian's faith.<br /> Beyond all these
+      facts, beyond logic, beyond reason,<br /> Mr. Talmage, by the light of
+      faith, clearly sees the<br /> eternal truth. This clearness of vision
+      should give<br /> him the serenity of candor and the kindness born of<br />
+      absolute knowledge. He, being a child of the light,<br /> should not expect
+      the perfect from the children of<br /> darkness. He should not judge
+      Humboldt and<br /> Wesley by the same standard. He should remember<br />
+      that Wesley was especially set apart and illuminated<br /> by divine
+      wisdom, while Humboldt was left to grope<br /> in the shadows of nature. He
+      should also remember<br /> that ministers are not like other people. They
+      have<br /> been "called." They have been "chosen" by infinite<br /> wisdom.
+      They have been "set apart," and they<br /> have bread to eat that we know
+      not of. While<br /> other people are forced to pursue the difficult paths<br />
+      of investigation, they fly with the wings of faith.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage
+      is perfectly aware of the advantages<br /> he enjoys, and yet he deems it
+      dangerous to be fair.<br /> This, in my judgment, is his mistake. If he
+      cannot<br /> easily point out the absurdities and contradictions in<br />
+      infidel lectures, surely God would never have selected<br /> <br /> 40<br />
+      <br /> him for that task. We cannot believe that imperfect<br /> instruments
+      would be chosen by infinite wisdom.<br /> Certain lambs have been entrusted
+      to the care of Mr.<br /> Talmage, the shepherd. Certainly God would not<br />
+      select a shepherd unable to cope with an average<br /> wolf. Such a
+      shepherd is only the appearance of<br /> protection. When the wolf is not
+      there, he is a<br /> useless expense, and when the wolf comes, he goes.<br />
+      I cannot believe that God would select a shepherd<br /> of that kind.
+      Neither can the shepherd justify his<br /> selection by abusing the wolf
+      when out of sight.<br /> The fear ought to be on the other side. A divinely<br />
+      appointed shepherd ought to be able to convince his<br /> sheep that a wolf
+      is a dangerous animal, and ought<br /> to be able to give his reasons. It
+      may be that the<br /> shepherd has a certain interest in exaggerating the<br />
+      cruelty and ferocity of the wolf, and even the number<br /> of the wolves.
+      Should it turn out that the wolves<br /> exist only in the imagination of
+      the shepherd, the<br /> sheep might refuse to pay the salary of their pro-<br />
+      tector. It will, however, be hard to calculate the<br /> extent to which
+      the sheep will lose confidence in a<br /> shepherd who has not even the
+      courage to state the<br /> facts about the wolf. But what must be the
+      result<br /> when the sheep find that the supposed wolf is, in<br /> <br />
+      41<br /> <br /> fact, their friend, and that he is endeavoring to rescue<br />
+      them from the exactions of the pretended shepherd,<br /> who creates, by
+      falsehood, the fear on which he<br /> lives?<br /> <br /> <br /> <a
+      name="link0004" id="link0004"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>SECOND INTERVIEW.</b></big><br />
+      <br /> <br /> <i>Por. Why, man, what's the matter? Don't tear<br /> your
+      hair.<br /> <br /> Sir Hugh. I have been beaten in a discussion,<br />
+      overwhelmed and humiliated.<br /> <br /> Por. Why didn't you call your
+      adversary a fool?<br /> <br /> Sir Hugh. My God! I forgot it!</i><br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. I want to ask you a few questions<br /> about the second
+      sermon of Mr. Talmage;<br /> have you read it, and what do you think of it?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The text taken by the reverend gentle-<br /> man is an
+      insult, and was probably intended as such:<br /> "The fool hath said in his
+      heart, there is no God."<br /> Mr. Talmage seeks to apply this text to any
+      one<br /> who denies that the Jehovah of the Jews was and is<br /> the
+      infinite and eternal Creator of all. He is per-<br /> fectly satisfied that
+      any man who differs with him on<br /> this question is a "fool," and he has
+      the Christian<br /> forbearance and kindness to say so. I presume he<br />
+      <br /> 46<br /> <br /> is honest in this opinion, and no doubt regards Bruno,<br />
+      Spinoza and Humboldt as driveling imbeciles. He<br /> entertains the same
+      opinion of some of the greatest,<br /> wisest and best of Greece and Rome.<br />
+      <br /> No man is fitted to reason upon this question who<br /> has not the
+      intelligence to see the difficulties in all<br /> theories. No man has yet
+      evolved a theory that<br /> satisfactorily accounts for all that is. No
+      matter<br /> what his opinion may be, he is beset by a thousand<br />
+      difficulties, and innumerable things insist upon an<br /> explanation. The
+      best that any man can do is to<br /> take that theory which to his mind
+      presents the<br /> fewest difficulties. Mr. Talmage has been educated<br />
+      in a certain way&mdash;has a brain of a certain quantity,<br /> quality and
+      form&mdash;and accepts, in spite it may be,<br /> of himself, a certain
+      theory. Others, formed differ-<br /> ently, having lived under different
+      circumstances,<br /> cannot accept the Talmagian view, and thereupon he<br />
+      denounces them as fools. In this he follows the<br /> example of David the
+      murderer; of David, who<br /> advised one of his children to assassinate
+      another;<br /> of David, whose last words were those of hate and<br />
+      crime. Mr. Talmage insists that it takes no especial<br /> brain to reason
+      out a "design" in Nature, and in a<br /> moment afterward says that "when
+      the world slew<br /> <br /> 47<br /> <br /> "Jesus, it showed what it would do
+      with the eternal<br /> "God, if once it could get its hands on Him." Why<br />
+      should a God of infinite wisdom create people who<br /> would gladly murder
+      their Creator? Was there any<br /> particular "design" in that? Does the
+      existence<br /> of such people conclusively prove the existence of a<br />
+      good Designer? It seems to me&mdash;and I take it that<br /> my thought is
+      natural, as I have only been born<br /> once&mdash;that an infinitely wise
+      and good God would<br /> naturally create good people, and if he has not,
+      cer-<br /> tainly the fault is his. The God of Mr. Talmage<br /> knew, when
+      he created Guiteau, that he would<br /> assassinate Garfield. Why did he
+      create him? Did<br /> he want Garfield assassinated? Will somebody be<br />
+      kind enough to show the "design" in this trans-<br /> action? Is it
+      possible to see "design" in earth-<br /> quakes, in volcanoes, in
+      pestilence, in famine, in<br /> ruthless and relentless war? Can we find
+      "design" in<br /> the fact that every animal lives upon some other&mdash;<br />
+      that every drop of every sea is a battlefield where<br /> the strong devour
+      the weak? Over the precipice<br /> of cruelty rolls a perpetual Niagara of
+      blood. Is<br /> there "design" in this? Why should a good God<br /> people a
+      world with men capable of burning their<br /> fellow-men&mdash;and capable
+      of burning the greatest and<br /> <br /> 48<br /> <br /> best? Why does a good
+      God permit these things?<br /> It is said of Christ that he was infinitely
+      kind and<br /> generous, infinitely merciful, because when on earth<br /> he
+      cured the sick, the lame and blind. Has he not<br /> as much power now as
+      he had then? If he was and<br /> is the God of all worlds, why does he not
+      now give<br /> back to the widow her son? Why does he with-<br /> hold light
+      from the eyes of the blind? And why<br /> does one who had the power
+      miraculously to feed<br /> thousands, allow millions to die for want of
+      food?<br /> Did Christ only have pity when he was part human?<br /> Are we
+      indebted for his kindness to the flesh that<br /> clothed his spirit? Where
+      is he now? Where has he<br /> been through all the centuries of slavery and
+      crime?<br /> If this universe was "designed," then all that<br /> happens
+      was "designed." If a man constructs an<br /> engine, the boiler of which
+      explodes, we say either<br /> that he did not know the strength of his
+      materials, or<br /> that he was reckless of human life. If an infinite
+      being<br /> should construct a weak or imperfect machine, he must<br /> be
+      held accountable for all that happens. He cannot<br /> be permitted to say
+      that he did not know the strength<br /> of the materials. He is directly
+      and absolutely re-<br /> sponsible. So, if this world was designed by a
+      being<br /> of infinite power and wisdom, he is responsible for<br /> <br />
+      49<br /> <br /> the result of that design. My position is this: I do<br />
+      not know. But there are so many objections to the<br /> personal-God
+      theory, that it is impossible for me to<br /> accept it. I prefer to say
+      that the universe is all the<br /> God there is. I prefer to make no being
+      responsible.<br /> I prefer to say: If the naked are clothed, man<br /> must
+      clothe them; if the hungry are fed, man must<br /> feed them. I prefer to
+      rely upon human endeavor,<br /> upon human intelligence, upon the heart and
+      brain<br /> of man. There is no evidence that God has ever<br /> interfered
+      in the affairs of man. The hand of earth<br /> is stretched uselessly
+      toward heaven. From the<br /> clouds there comes no help. In vain the
+      shipwrecked<br /> cry to God. In vain the imprisoned ask for liberty<br />
+      and light&mdash;the world moves on, and the heavens are<br /> deaf and dumb
+      and blind. The frost freezes, the fire<br /> burns, slander smites, the
+      wrong triumphs, the good<br /> suffer, and prayer dies upon the lips of
+      faith.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges you with being<br />
+      "the champion blasphemer of America"&mdash;what do<br /> you understand
+      blasphemy to be?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Blasphemy is an epithet
+      bestowed by su-<br /> perstition upon common sense. Whoever investi-<br />
+      gates a religion as he would any department of<br /> <br /> 50<br /> <br />
+      science, is called a blasphemer. Whoever contradicts<br /> a priest,
+      whoever has the impudence to use his own<br /> reason, whoever is brave
+      enough to express his<br /> honest thought, is a blasphemer in the eyes of
+      the<br /> religionist. When a missionary speaks slightingly of<br /> the
+      wooden god of a savage, the savage regards him<br /> as a blasphemer. To
+      laugh at the pretensions of<br /> Mohammed in Constantinople is blasphemy.
+      To say<br /> in St. Petersburg that Mohammed was a prophet of<br /> God is
+      also blasphemy. There was a time when to<br /> acknowledge the divinity of
+      Christ in Jerusalem was<br /> blasphemy. To deny his divinity is now
+      blasphemy<br /> in New York. Blasphemy is to a considerable extent<br /> a
+      geographical question. It depends not only on what<br /> you say, but where
+      you are when you say it. Blas-<br /> phemy is what the old calls the new,&mdash;what
+      last<br /> year's leaf says to this year's bud. The founder of<br /> every
+      religion was a blasphemer. The Jews so re-<br /> garded Christ, and the
+      Athenians had the same<br /> opinion of Socrates. Catholics have always
+      looked<br /> upon Protestants as blasphemers, and Protestants have<br />
+      always held the same generous opinion of Catholics.<br /> To deny that Mary
+      is the Mother of God is blas-<br /> phemy. To say that she is the Mother of
+      God is<br /> blasphemy. Some savages think that a dried snake-<br /> <br />
+      51<br /> <br /> skin stuffed with leaves is sacred, and he who thinks<br />
+      otherwise is a blasphemer. It was once blasphemy<br /> to laugh at Diana,
+      of the Ephesians. Many people<br /> think that it is blasphemous to tell
+      your real opinion<br /> of the Jewish Jehovah. Others imagine that words<br />
+      can be printed upon paper, and the paper bound into<br /> a book covered
+      with sheepskin, and that the book is<br /> sacred, and that to question its
+      sacredness is blas-<br /> phemy. Blasphemy is also a crime against God, but<br />
+      nothing can be more absurd than a crime against<br /> God. If God is
+      infinite, you cannot injure him. You<br /> cannot commit a crime against
+      any being that you<br /> cannot injure. Of course, the infinite cannot be
+      in-<br /> jured. Man is a conditioned being. By changing<br /> his
+      conditions, his surroundings, you can injure him;<br /> but if God is
+      infinite, he is conditionless. If he is<br /> conditionless, he cannot by
+      any possibility be injured.<br /> You can neither increase, nor decrease,
+      the well-being<br /> of the infinite. Consequently, a crime against God<br />
+      is a demonstrated impossibility. The cry of blasphemy<br /> means only that
+      the argument of the blasphemer can-<br /> not be answered. The
+      sleight-of-hand performer,<br /> when some one tries to raise the curtain
+      behind which<br /> he operates, cries "blasphemer!" The priest, find-<br />
+      ing that he has been attacked by common sense,&mdash;<br /> <br /> 52<br />
+      <br /> by a fact,&mdash;resorts to the same cry. Blasphemy is the<br />
+      black flag of theology, and it means: No argument<br /> and no quarter! It
+      is an appeal to prejudice, to<br /> passions, to ignorance. It is the last
+      resort of a<br /> defeated priest. Blasphemy marks the point where<br />
+      argument stops and slander begins. In old times, it<br /> was the signal
+      for throwing stones, for gathering<br /> fagots and for tearing flesh; now
+      it means falsehood<br /> and calumny.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then you
+      think that there is no such<br /> thing as the crime of blasphemy, and that
+      no such<br /> offence can be committed?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Any one
+      who knowingly speaks in favor<br /> of injustice is a blasphemer. Whoever
+      wishes to<br /> destroy liberty of thought,&mdash;the honest expression of<br />
+      ideas,&mdash;is a blasphemer. Whoever is willing to malign<br /> his
+      neighbor, simply because he differs with him upon<br /> a subject about
+      which neither of them knows anything<br /> for certain, is a blasphemer. If
+      a crime can be com-<br /> mitted against God, he commits it who imputes to<br />
+      God the commission of crime. The man who says<br /> that God ordered the
+      assassination of women and<br /> babes, that he gave maidens to satisfy the
+      lust of<br /> soldiers, that he enslaved his own children,&mdash;that man<br />
+      <br /> 53<br /> <br /> is a blasphemer. In my judgment, it would be far<br />
+      better to deny the existence of God entirely. It<br /> seems to me that
+      every man ought to give his honest<br /> opinion. No man should suppose
+      that any infinite<br /> God requires him to tell as truth that which he
+      knows<br /> nothing about.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage, in order to make a point
+      against<br /> infidelity, states from his pulpit that I am in favor of<br />
+      poisoning the minds of children by the circulation of<br /> immoral books.
+      The statement is entirely false. He<br /> ought to have known that I
+      withdrew from the Liberal<br /> League upon the very question whether the
+      law should<br /> be repealed or modified. I favored a modification<br /> of
+      that law, so that books and papers could not be<br /> thrown from the mails
+      simply because they were<br /> "infidel."<br /> <br /> I was and am in favor
+      of the destruction of<br /> every immoral book in the world. I was and am<br />
+      in favor, not only of the law against the circulation<br /> of such filth,
+      but want it executed to the letter in every<br /> State of this Union. Long
+      before he made that state-<br /> ment, I had introduced a resolution to
+      that effect, and<br /> supported the resolution in a speech. Notwithstand-<br />
+      ing these facts, hundreds of clergymen have made<br /> haste to tell the
+      exact opposite of the truth. This<br /> <br /> 54<br /> <br /> they have done
+      in the name of Christianity, under the<br /> pretence of pleasing their
+      God. In my judgment, it<br /> is far better to tell your honest opinions,
+      even upon<br /> the subject of theology, than to knowingly tell a false-<br />
+      hood about a fellow-man. Mr. Talmage may have<br /> been ignorant of the
+      truth. He may have been misled<br /> by other ministers, and for his
+      benefit I make this ex-<br /> planation. I wanted the laws modified so that
+      bigotry<br /> could not interfere with the literature of intelligence;<br />
+      but I did not want, in any way, to shield the writers or<br /> publishers
+      of immoral books. Upon this subject I<br /> used, at the last meeting of
+      the Liberal League that<br /> I attended, the following language:<br />
+      <br /> "But there is a distinction wide as the Mississippi,<br /> "yes,
+      wider than the Atlantic, wider than all oceans,<br /> "between the
+      literature of immorality and the litera-<br /> "ture of free thought. One
+      is a crawling, slimy lizard,<br /> "and the other an angel with wings of
+      light. Let us<br /> "draw this distinction. Let us understand ourselves.<br />
+      "Do not make the wholesale statement that all these<br /> "laws ought to be
+      repealed. They ought not to be<br /> "repealed. Some of them are good, and
+      the law<br /> "against sending instruments of vice through the<br /> "mails
+      is good. The law against sending obscene<br /> "pictures and books is good.
+      The law against send-<br /> <br /> 55<br /> <br /> "ing bogus diplomas through
+      the mails, to allow a<br /> "lot of ignorant hyenas to prey upon the sick
+      people<br /> "of the world, is a good law. The law against rascals<br />
+      "who are getting up bogus lotteries, and sending their<br /> "circulars in
+      the mails is a good law. You know, as<br /> "well as I, that there are
+      certain books not fit to go<br /> "through the mails. You know that. You
+      know there<br /> "are certain pictures not fit to be transmitted, not fit<br />
+      "to be delivered to any human being. When these<br /> "books and pictures
+      come into the control of the<br /> "United States, I say, burn them up! And
+      when any<br /> "man has been indicted who has been trying to make<br />
+      "money by pandering to the lowest passions in the<br /> "human breast, then
+      I say, prosecute him! let the<br /> "law take its course."<br /> <br /> I can
+      hardly convince myself that when Mr.<br /> Talmage made the charge, he was
+      acquainted with<br /> the facts. It seems incredible that any man, pre-<br />
+      tending to be governed by the law of common<br /> honesty, could make a
+      charge like this knowing<br /> it to be untrue. Under no circumstances,
+      would<br /> I charge Mr. Talmage with being an infamous<br /> man, unless
+      the evidence was complete and over-<br /> whelming. Even then, I should
+      hesitate long before<br /> making the charge. The side I take on
+      theological<br /> <br /> 56<br /> <br /> questions does not render a resort to
+      slander or<br /> calumny a necessity. If Mr. Talmage is an honor-<br /> able
+      man, he will take back the statement he has<br /> made. Even if there is a
+      God, I hardly think that<br /> he will reward one of his children for
+      maligning<br /> another; and to one who has told falsehoods about<br />
+      "infidels," that having been his only virtue, I doubt<br /> whether he will
+      say: "Well done good and faithful<br /> "servant."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What have you to say to the charge<br /> that you are endeavoring to
+      "assassinate God,"<br /> and that you are "far worse than the man who at-<br />
+      "tempts to kill his father, or his mother, or his sister,<br /> "or his
+      brother"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, I think that is about as reason-<br />
+      able as anything he says. No one wishes, so far as I<br /> know, to
+      assassinate God. The idea of assassinating<br /> an infinite being is of
+      course infinitely absurd. One<br /> would think Mr. Talmage had lost his
+      reason! And<br /> yet this man stands at the head of the Presbyterian<br />
+      clergy. It is for this reason that I answer him. He<br /> is the only
+      Presbyterian minister in the United<br /> States, so far as I know, able to
+      draw an audience.<br /> He is, without doubt, the leader of that
+      denomination.<br /> <br /> 57<br /> <br /> He is orthodox and conservative. He
+      believes im-<br /> plicitly in the "Five Points" of Calvin, and says<br />
+      nothing simply for the purpose of attracting attention.<br /> He believes
+      that God damns a man for his own glory;<br /> that he sends babes to hell
+      to establish his mercy,<br /> and that he filled the world with disease and
+      crime<br /> simply to demonstrate his wisdom. He believes that<br />
+      billions of years before the earth was, God had made<br /> up his mind as
+      to the exact number that he would<br /> eternally damn, and had counted his
+      saints. This<br /> doctrine he calls "glad tidings of great joy." He<br />
+      really believes that every man who is true to himself<br /> is waging war
+      against God; that every infidel is a<br /> rebel; that every Freethinker is
+      a traitor, and that<br /> only those are good subjects who have joined the<br />
+      Presbyterian Church, know the Shorter Catechism by<br /> heart, and
+      subscribe liberally toward lifting the mort-<br /> gage on the Brooklyn
+      Tabernacle. All the rest are<br /> endeavoring to assassinate God, plotting
+      the murder<br /> of the Holy Ghost, and applauding the Jews for the<br />
+      crucifixion of Christ. If Mr. Talmage is correct in<br /> his views as to
+      the power and wisdom of God, I<br /> imagine that his enemies at last will
+      be overthrown,<br /> that the assassins and murderers will not succeed, and<br />
+      that the Infinite, with Mr. Talmage s assistance, will<br /> <br /> 58<br />
+      <br /> finally triumph. If there is an infinite God, certainly<br /> he
+      ought to have made man grand enough to have<br /> and express an opinion of
+      his own. Is it possible<br /> that God can be gratified with the applause
+      of moral<br /> cowards? Does he seek to enhance his glory by<br /> receiving
+      the adulation of cringing slaves? Is God<br /> satisfied with the adoration
+      of the frightened?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. You notice that Mr. Talmage
+      finds<br /> nearly all the inventions of modern times mentioned<br /> in the
+      Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>: Yes; Mr. Talmage has made an ex-<br />
+      ceedingly important discovery. I admit that I am<br /> somewhat amazed at
+      the wisdom of the ancients.<br /> This discovery has been made just in the
+      nick of<br /> time. Millions of people were losing their respect<br /> for
+      the Old Testament. They were beginning to<br /> think that there was some
+      discrepancy between the<br /> prophecies of Ezekiel and Daniel and the
+      latest devel-<br /> opments in physical science. Thousands of preachers<br />
+      were telling their flocks that the Bible is not a<br /> scientific book;
+      that Joshua was not an inspired as-<br /> tronomer, that God never
+      enlightened Moses about<br /> geology, and that Ezekiel did not understand
+      the<br /> entire art of cookery. These admissions caused<br /> <br /> 59<br />
+      <br /> some young people to suspect that the Bible, after all,<br /> was not
+      inspired; that the prophets of antiquity did<br /> not know as much as the
+      discoverers of to-day. The<br /> Bible was falling into disrepute. Mr.
+      Talmage has<br /> rushed to the rescue. He shows, and shows conclu-<br />
+      sively as anything can be shown from the Bible, that<br /> Job understood
+      all the laws of light thousands of<br /> years before Newton lived; that he
+      anticipated the<br /> discoveries of Descartes, Huxley and Tyndall; that<br />
+      he was familiar with the telegraph and telephone;<br /> that Morse, Bell
+      and Edison simply put his discov-<br /> eries in successful operation; that
+      Nahum was, in<br /> fact, a master-mechanic; that he understood perfectly<br />
+      the modern railway and described it so accurately<br /> that Trevethick,
+      Foster and Stephenson had no diffi-<br /> culty in constructing a
+      locomotive. He also has<br /> discovered that Job was well acquainted with
+      the<br /> trade winds, and understood the mysterious currents,<br /> tides
+      and pulses of the sea; that Lieutenant Maury<br /> was a plagiarist; that
+      Humboldt was simply a biblical<br /> student. He finds that Isaiah and
+      Solomon were<br /> far in advance of Galileo, Morse, Meyer and Watt.<br />
+      This is a discovery wholly unexpected to me. If<br /> Mr. Talmage is right,
+      I am satisfied the Bible is an<br /> inspired book. If it shall turn out
+      that Joshua was<br /> <br /> 60<br /> <br /> superior to Laplace, that Moses
+      knew more about<br /> geology than Humboldt, that Job as a scientist was<br />
+      the superior of Kepler, that Isaiah knew more than<br /> Copernicus, and
+      that even the minor prophets ex-<br /> celled the inventors and discoverers
+      of our time&mdash;<br /> then I will admit that infidelity must become
+      speech-<br /> less forever. Until I read this sermon, I had never<br /> even
+      suspected that the inventions of modern times<br /> were known to the
+      ancient Jews. I never supposed<br /> that Nahum knew the least thing about
+      railroads, or<br /> that Job would have known a telegraph if he had seen<br />
+      it. I never supposed that Joshua comprehended the<br /> three laws of
+      Kepler. Of course I have not read<br /> the Old Testament with as much care
+      as some other<br /> people have, and when I did read it, I was not looking<br />
+      for inventions and discoveries. I had been told so<br /> often that the
+      Bible was no authority upon scientific<br /> questions, that I was lulled
+      into a state of lethargy.<br /> What is amazing to me is, that so many men
+      did<br /> read it without getting the slightest hint of the<br /> smallest
+      invention. To think that the Jews read that<br /> book for hundreds and
+      hundreds of years, and yet<br /> went to their graves without the slightest
+      notion of<br /> astronomy, or geology, of railroads, telegraphs, or<br />
+      steamboats! And then to think that the early fathers<br /> <br /> 61<br />
+      <br /> made it the study of their lives and died without in-<br /> venting
+      anything! I am astonished that Mr. Talmage<br /> himself does not figure in
+      the records of the Patent<br /> Office. I cannot account for this, except
+      upon the<br /> supposition that he is too honest to infringe on the<br />
+      patents of the patriarchs. After this, I shall read<br /> the Old Testament
+      with more care.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you see that Mr. Talmage
+      endeav-<br /> ors to convict you of great ignorance in not knowing<br />
+      that the word translated "rib" should have been<br /> translated "side,"
+      and that Eve, after all, was not<br /> made out of a rib, but out of Adam's
+      side?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I may have been misled by taking the<br />
+      Bible as it is translated. The Bible account is simply<br /> this: "And the
+      Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall<br /> "upon Adam, and he slept. And he
+      took one of<br /> "his ribs and closed up the flesh instead thereof;<br />
+      "and the rib which the Lord God had taken from<br /> "man made he a woman,
+      and brought her unto the<br /> "man. And Adam said: This is now bone of my<br />
+      "bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called<br /> "woman, because
+      she was taken out of man." If<br /> Mr. Talmage is right, then the account
+      should be as<br /> follows: "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep<br />
+      <br /> 62<br /> <br /> "to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one<br />
+      "of his sides, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;<br /> "and the side
+      which the Lord God had taken from<br /> "man made he a woman, and brought
+      her unto the<br /> "man. And Adam said: This is now side of my<br /> "side,
+      and flesh of my flesh." I do not see that the<br /> story is made any
+      better by using the word "side"<br /> instead of "rib." It would be just as
+      hard for God<br /> to make a woman out of a man's side as out of a<br />
+      rib. Mr. Talmage ought not to question the power<br /> of God to make a
+      woman out of a bone, and he must<br /> recollect that the less the material
+      the greater the<br /> miracle.<br /> <br /> There are two accounts of the
+      creation of man,<br /> in Genesis, the first being in the twenty-first
+      verse<br /> of the first chapter and the second being in the<br />
+      twenty-first and twenty-second verses of the sec-<br /> ond chapter.<br />
+      <br /> According to the second account, "God formed<br /> "man of the dust
+      of the ground, and breathed into<br /> "his nostrils the breath of life."
+      And after this,<br /> "God planted a garden eastward in Eden and put<br />
+      "the man" in this garden. After this, "He made<br /> "every tree to grow
+      that was good for food and<br /> "pleasant to the sight," and, in addition,
+      "the tree<br /> <br /> 63<br /> <br /> "of life in the midst of the garden,"
+      beside "the tree<br /> "of the knowledge of good and evil." And he "put<br />
+      "the man in the garden to dress it and keep it,"<br /> telling him that he
+      might eat of everything he saw<br /> except of "the tree of the knowledge
+      of good and<br /> "evil."<br /> <br /> After this, God having noticed that it
+      "was not<br /> "good for man to be alone, formed out of the ground<br />
+      "every beast of the field, every fowl of the air, and<br /> "brought them
+      to Adam to see what he would call<br /> "them, and Adam gave names to all
+      cattle, and to<br /> "the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field.<br />
+      "But for Adam there was not found an helpmeet for<br /> "him."<br /> <br />
+      We are not told how Adam learned the language,<br /> or how he understood
+      what God said. I can hardly<br /> believe that any man can be created with
+      the know-<br /> ledge of a language. Education cannot be ready<br /> made
+      and stuffed into a brain. Each person must<br /> learn a language for
+      himself. Yet in this account we<br /> find a language ready made for man's
+      use. And not<br /> only man was enabled to speak, but a serpent also<br />
+      has the power of speech, and the woman holds a<br /> conversation with this
+      animal and with her husband;<br /> and yet no account is given of how any
+      language was<br /> <br /> 64<br /> <br /> learned. God is described as walking
+      in the garden<br /> in the cool of the day, speaking like a man&mdash;holding<br />
+      conversations with the man and woman, and occa-<br /> sionally addressing
+      the serpent.<br /> <br /> In the nursery rhymes of the world there is<br />
+      nothing more childish than this "inspired" account<br /> of the creation of
+      man and woman.<br /> <br /> The early fathers of the church held that woman<br />
+      was inferior to man, because man was not made for<br /> woman, but woman
+      for man; because Adam was<br /> made first and Eve afterward. They had not
+      the<br /> gallantry of Robert Burns, who accounted for the<br /> beauty of
+      woman from the fact that God practiced<br /> on man first, and then gave
+      woman the benefit of<br /> his experience. Think, in this age of the world,<br />
+      of a well-educated, intelligent gentleman telling his<br /> little child
+      that about six thousand years ago a<br /> mysterious being called God made
+      the world out of<br /> his "omnipotence;" then made a man out of some<br />
+      dust which he is supposed to have moulded into<br /> form; that he put this
+      man in a garden for the pur-<br /> pose of keeping the trees trimmed; that
+      after a little<br /> while he noticed that the man seemed lonesome, not<br />
+      particularly happy, almost homesick; that then it oc-<br /> curred to this
+      God, that it would be a good thing for<br /> <br /> 65<br /> <br /> the man to
+      have some company, somebody to help<br /> him trim the trees, to talk to
+      him and cheer him up<br /> on rainy days; that, thereupon, this God caused<br />
+      a deep sleep to fall on the man, took a knife, or a<br /> long, sharp piece
+      of "omnipotence," and took out one<br /> of the man's sides, or a rib, and
+      of that made a<br /> woman; that then this man and woman got along<br />
+      real well till a snake got into the garden and induced<br /> the woman to
+      eat of the tree of the knowledge of<br /> good and evil; that the woman got
+      the man to take<br /> a bite; that afterwards both of them were detected by<br />
+      God, who was walking around in the cool of the<br /> evening, and thereupon
+      they were turned out of the<br /> garden, lest they should put forth their
+      hands and eat<br /> of the tree of life, and live forever.<br /> <br /> This
+      foolish story has been regarded as the sacred,<br /> inspired truth; as an
+      account substantially written by<br /> God himself; and thousands and
+      millions of people<br /> have supposed it necessary to believe this
+      childish<br /> falsehood, in order to save their souls. Nothing<br /> more
+      laughable can be found in the fairy tales and<br /> folk-lore of savages.
+      Yet this is defended by the<br /> leading Presbyterian divine, and those
+      who fail to<br /> believe in the truth of this story are called "brazen<br />
+      "faced fools," "deicides," and "blasphemers."<br /> <br /> 66<br /> <br /> By
+      this story woman in all Christian countries was<br /> degraded. She was
+      considered too impure to preach<br /> the gospel, too impure to distribute
+      the sacramental<br /> bread, too impure to hand about the sacred wine,<br />
+      too impure to step within the "holy of holies," in the<br /> Catholic
+      Churches, too impure to be touched by a<br /> priest. Unmarried men were
+      considered purer than<br /> husbands and fathers. Nuns were regarded as su-<br />
+      perior to mothers, a monastery holier than a home, a<br /> nunnery nearer
+      sacred than the cradle. And through<br /> all these years it has been
+      thought better to love<br /> God than to love man, better to love God than
+      to<br /> love your wife and children, better to worship an<br /> imaginary
+      deity than to help your fellow-men.<br /> <br /> I regard the rights of men
+      and women equal. In<br /> Love's fair realm, husband and wife are king and<br />
+      queen, sceptered and crowned alike, and seated on<br /> the self-same
+      throne.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you still insist that the Old
+      Testa-<br /> ment upholds polygamy? Mr. Talmage denies this<br /> charge,
+      and shows how terribly God punished those<br /> who were not satisfied with
+      one wife.<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I see nothing in what Mr. Talmage has<br />
+      said calculated to change my opinion. It has been<br /> <br /> 67<br /> <br />
+      admitted by thousands of theologians that the Old<br /> Testament upholds
+      polygamy. Mr. Talmage is<br /> among the first to deny it. It will not do
+      to say that<br /> David was punished for the crime of polygamy<br /> or
+      concubinage. He was "a man after God's own<br /> "heart." He was made a
+      king. He was a successful<br /> general, and his blood is said to have
+      flowed in the<br /> veins of God. Solomon was, according to the ac-<br />
+      count, enriched with wisdom above all human beings.<br /> Was that a
+      punishment for having had so many<br /> wives? Was Abraham pursued by the
+      justice of<br /> God because of the crime against Hagar, or for the<br />
+      crime against his own wife? The verse quoted by<br /> Mr. Talmage to show
+      that God was opposed to<br /> polygamy, namely, the eighteenth verse of the
+      eight-<br /> eenth chapter of Leviticus, cannot by any ingenuity<br /> be
+      tortured into a command against polygamy. The<br /> most that can be
+      possibly said of it is, that you shall<br /> not marry the sister of your
+      wife, while your wife is<br /> living. Yet this passage is quoted by Mr.
+      Talmage<br /> as "a thunder of prohibition against having more<br /> "than
+      one wife." In the twentieth chapter of<br /> Leviticus it is enacted: "That
+      if a man take a wife<br /> "and her mother they shall be burned with fire."
+      A<br /> commandment like this shows that he might take his<br /> <br /> 68<br />
+      <br /> wife and somebody else's mother. These passages<br /> have nothing to
+      do with polygamy. They show<br /> whom you may marry, not how many; and
+      there is<br /> not in Leviticus a solitary word against polygamy&mdash;<br />
+      not one. Nor is there such a word in Genesis, nor<br /> Exodus, nor in the
+      entire Pentateuch&mdash;not one<br /> word. These books are filled with the
+      most minute<br /> directions about killing sheep, and goats and doves;<br />
+      about making clothes for priests, about fashioning<br /> tongs and
+      snuffers; and yet, they contain not one<br /> word against polygamy. It
+      never occurred to the in-<br /> spired writers that polygamy was a crime.
+      Polygamy<br /> was accepted as a matter of course. Women were<br /> simple
+      property.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage, however, insists that, although God<br />
+      was against polygamy, he permitted it, and at the<br /> same time threw his
+      moral influence against it.<br /> Upon this subject he says: "No doubt God
+      per-<br /> "mitted polygamy to continue for sometime, just<br /> "as he
+      permits murder and arson, theft and gam-<br /> "bling to-day to continue,
+      although he is against<br /> "them." If God is the author of the Ten Com-<br />
+      mandments, he prohibited murder and theft, but<br /> he said nothing about
+      polygamy. If he was so<br /> terribly against that crime, why did he forget
+      to<br /> <br /> 69<br /> <br /> mention it? Was there not room enough on the<br />
+      tables of stone for just one word on this subject?<br /> Had he no time to
+      give a commandment against<br /> slavery? Mr. Talmage of course insists
+      that God<br /> had to deal with these things gradually, his idea being<br />
+      that if God had made a commandment against them all<br /> at once, the Jews
+      would have had nothing more to do<br /> with him.<br /> <br /> For instance:
+      if we wanted to break cannibals<br /> of eating missionaries, we should not
+      tell them all<br /> at once that it was wrong, that it was wicked, to<br />
+      eat missionaries raw; we should induce them first<br /> to cook the
+      missionaries, and gradually wean them<br /> from raw flesh. This would be
+      the first great step.<br /> We would stew the missionaries, and after a
+      time<br /> put a little mutton in the stew, not enough to excite<br /> the
+      suspicion of the cannibal, but just enough to get<br /> him in the habit of
+      eating mutton without knowing it.<br /> Day after day we would put in more
+      mutton and less<br /> missionary, until finally, the cannibal would be
+      perfectly<br /> satisfied with clear mutton. Then we would tell him<br />
+      that it was wrong to eat missionary. After the can-<br /> nibal got so that
+      he liked mutton, and cared nothing<br /> for missionary, then it would be
+      safe to have a law<br /> upon the subject.<br /> <br /> 70<br /> <br /> Mr.
+      Talmage insists that polygamy cannot exist<br /> among people who believe
+      the Bible. In this he is<br /> mistaken. The Mormons all believe the Bible.
+      There<br /> is not a single polygamist in Utah who does not insist<br />
+      upon the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments.<br /> <br /> The Rev.
+      Mr. Newman, a kind of peripatetic consu-<br /> lar theologian, once had a
+      discussion, I believe, with<br /> Elder Orson Pratt, at Salt Lake City,
+      upon the question<br /> of polygamy. It is sufficient to say of this
+      discussion<br /> that it is now circulated by the Mormons as a campaign<br />
+      document. The elder overwhelmed the parson.<br /> Passages of Scripture in
+      favor of polygamy were<br /> quoted by the hundred. The lives of all the
+      patriarchs<br /> were brought forward, and poor parson Newman was<br />
+      driven from the field. The truth is, the Jews at that<br /> time were much
+      like our forefathers. They were<br /> barbarians, and many of their laws
+      were unjust<br /> and cruel. Polygamy was the right of all; practiced,<br />
+      as a matter of fact, by the rich and powerful, and the<br /> rich and
+      powerful were envied by the poor. In such<br /> esteem did the ancient Jews
+      hold polygamy, that the<br /> number of Solomons wives was given, simply to
+      en-<br /> hance his glory. My own opinion is, that Solomon<br /> had very
+      few wives, and that polygamy was not<br /> general in Palestine. The
+      country was too poor, and<br /> <br /> 71<br /> <br /> Solomon, in all his
+      glory was hardly able to support<br /> one wife. He was a poor barbarian
+      king with a<br /> limited revenue, with a poor soil, with a sparse popu-<br />
+      lation, without art, without science and without power.<br /> He sustained
+      about the same relation to other kings<br /> that Delaware does to other
+      States. Mr. Talmage<br /> says that God persecuted Solomon, and yet, if he
+      will<br /> turn to the twenty-second chapter of First Chronicles,<br /> he
+      will find what God promised to Solomon. God,<br /> speaking to David, says:
+      "Behold a son shall be born<br /> "to thee, who shall be a man of rest, and
+      I will give him<br /> "rest from his enemies around about; for his name
+      shall<br /> "be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness<br /> "unto
+      Israel in his days. He shall build a house in my<br /> "name, and he shall
+      be my son and I will be his father,<br /> "and I will establish the throne
+      of his kingdom over<br /> "Israel forever." Did God keep his promise?<br />
+      <br /> So he tells us that David was persecuted by<br /> God, on account of
+      his offences, and yet I find in<br /> the twenty-eighth verse of the
+      twenty-ninth chapter<br /> of First Chronicles, the following account of
+      the death<br /> of David: "And he died in a good old age, full of<br />
+      "days, riches and honor." Is this true?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What
+      have you to say to the charge<br /> that you were mistaken in the number of
+      years that<br /> <br /> 72<br /> <br /> the Hebrews were in Egypt? Mr. Talmage
+      says that<br /> they were there 430 years, instead of 215 years.<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. If you will read the third chapter of<br /> Galatians,
+      sixteenth and seventeenth verses, you will<br /> find that it was 430 years
+      from the time God made the<br /> promise to Abraham to the giving of the
+      law from<br /> Mount Sinai. The Hebrews did not go to Egypt for<br /> 215
+      years after the promise was made to Abraham,<br /> and consequently did not
+      remain in Egypt more than<br /> 215 years. If Galatians is true, I am
+      right.<br /> <br /> Strange that Mr. Talmage should belittle the mira-<br />
+      cles. The trouble with this defender of the faith is that<br /> he cares
+      nothing for facts. He makes the strangest<br /> statements, and cares the
+      least for proof, of any<br /> man I know. I can account for what he says of
+      me<br /> only upon the supposition that he has not read my<br /> lectures.
+      He may have been misled by the pirated<br /> editions; Persons have stolen
+      my lectures, printed the<br /> same ones under various names, and filled
+      them with<br /> mistakes and things I never said. Mr. C. P. Farrell,<br />
+      of Washington, is my only authorized publisher.<br /> Yet Mr. Talmage
+      prefers to answer the mistakes of<br /> literary thieves, and charge their
+      ignorance to me.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did you ever attack the
+      character of<br /> Queen Victoria, or did you draw any parallel between<br />
+      <br /> 73<br /> <br /> her and George Eliot, calculated to depreciate the<br />
+      reputation of the Queen?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I never said a word
+      against Victoria.<br /> The fact is, I am not acquainted with her&mdash;never
+      met<br /> her in my life, and know but little of her. I never<br /> happened
+      to see her "in plain clothes, reading the<br /> "Bible to the poor in the
+      lane,"&mdash;neither did I ever<br /> hear her sing. I most cheerfully
+      admit that her<br /> reputation is good in the neighborhood where she<br />
+      resides. In one of my lectures I drew a parallel<br /> between George Eliot
+      and Victoria. I was showing<br /> the difference between a woman who had
+      won her<br /> position in the world of thought, and one who was<br /> queen
+      by chance. This is what I said:<br /> <br /> "It no longer satisfies the
+      ambition of a great man<br /> "to be a king or emperor. The last Napoleon
+      was<br /> "not satisfied with being the Emperor of the French.<br /> "He was
+      not satisfied with having a circlet of gold<br /> "about his head&mdash;he
+      wanted some evidence that he<br /> "had something of value in his head. So
+      he wrote<br /> "the life of Julius C&aelig;sar that he might become a<br />
+      "member of the French Academy. The emperors,<br /> "the kings, the popes,
+      no longer tower above their<br /> "fellows. Compare King William with the
+      philoso-<br /> "pher H&aelig;ckel. The king is one of the 'anointed<br />
+      <br /> 74<br /> <br /> "'of the Most High'&mdash;as they claim&mdash;one upon<br />
+      "whose head has been poured the divine petroleum<br /> "of authority.
+      Compare this king with H&aelig;ckel, who<br /> "towers an intellectual
+      Colossus above the crowned<br /> "mediocrity. Compare George Eliot with
+      Queen<br /> "Victoria. The queen is clothed in garments given<br /> "her by
+      blind fortune and unreasoning chance, while<br /> "George Eliot wears robes
+      of glory, woven in the<br /> "loom of her own genius. The world is
+      beginning<br /> "to pay homage to intellect, to genius, to heart."<br /> I
+      said not one word against Queen Victoria, and did<br /> not intend to even
+      intimate that she was not an ex-<br /> cellent woman, wife and mother. I
+      was simply trying<br /> to show that the world was getting great enough to<br />
+      place a genius above an accidental queen. Mr. Tal-<br /> mage, true to the
+      fawning, cringing spirit of ortho-<br /> doxy, lauds the living queen and
+      cruelly maligns the<br /> genius dead. He digs open the grave of George
+      Eliot,<br /> and tries to stain the sacred dust of one who was the<br />
+      greatest woman England has produced. He calls her<br /> "an adultress." He
+      attacks her because she was an<br /> atheist&mdash;because she abhorred
+      Jehovah, denied the<br /> inspiration of the Bible, denied the dogma of
+      eternal<br /> pain, and with all her heart despised the Presbyterian<br />
+      creed. He hates her because she was great and brave<br /> <br /> 75<br />
+      <br /> and free&mdash;because she lived without "faith" and died<br />
+      without fear&mdash;because she dared to give her honest<br /> thought, and
+      grandly bore the taunts and slanders of<br /> the Christian world.<br />
+      <br /> George Eliot tenderly carried in her heart the<br /> burdens of our
+      race. She looked through pity's tears<br /> upon the faults and frailties
+      of mankind. She knew<br /> the springs and seeds of thought and deed, and
+      saw,<br /> with cloudless eyes, through all the winding ways of<br /> greed,
+      ambition and deceit, where folly vainly plucks<br /> with thorn-pierced
+      hands the fading flowers of selfish<br /> joy&mdash;the highway of eternal
+      right. Whatever her<br /> relations may have been&mdash;no matter what I
+      think, or<br /> others say, or how much all regret the one mistake in<br />
+      all her self-denying, loving life&mdash;I feel and know that<br /> in the
+      court where her own conscience sat as judge, she<br /> stood acquitted&mdash;pure
+      as light and stainless as a star.<br /> <br /> How appropriate here, with
+      some slight change,<br /> the wondrously poetic and pathetic words of
+      Laertes<br /> at Ophelia's grave:<br /> <br /> <i>Leave her i' the earth;<br />
+      And from her fair and unpolluted flesh<br /> May violets spring!<br /> I
+      tell thee, churlish priest,<br /> A ministering angel shall this woman be,<br />
+      When thou liest howling!</i><br /> <br /> I have no words with which to tell
+      my loathing for<br /> a man who violates a noble woman's grave.<br /> <br />
+      76<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that the spirit in which<br />
+      Mr. Talmage reviews your lectures is in accordance<br /> with the teachings
+      of Christianity?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I think that he talks like a
+      true Presby-<br /> terian. If you will read the arguments of Calvin<br />
+      against the doctrines of Castalio and Servetus, you will<br /> see that Mr.
+      Talmage follows closely in the footsteps<br /> of the founder of his
+      church. Castalio was such a<br /> wicked and abandoned wretch, that he
+      taught the<br /> innocence of honest error. He insisted that God<br /> would
+      not eternally damn a man for being honestly<br /> mistaken. For the
+      utterance of such blasphemous<br /> sentiments, abhorrent to every
+      Christian mind, Calvin<br /> called him "a dog of Satan, and a child of
+      hell." In<br /> short, he used the usual arguments. Castalio was<br />
+      banished, and died in exile. In the case of Servetus,<br /> after all the
+      epithets had been exhausted, an appeal<br /> was made to the stake, and the
+      blasphemous wretch<br /> was burned to ashes.<br /> <br /> If you will read
+      the life of John Knox, you will find<br /> that Mr. Talmage is as orthodox
+      in his methods of<br /> dealing with infidels, as he is in his creed. In my<br />
+      opinion, he would gladly treat unbelievers now, as the<br /> Puritans did
+      the Quakers, as the Episcopalians did the<br /> Presbyterians, as the
+      Presbyterians did the Baptists,<br /> <br /> 77<br /> <br /> and as the
+      Catholics have treated all heretics. Of<br /> course, all these sects will
+      settle their differences in<br /> heaven. In the next world, they will
+      laugh at the<br /> crimes they committed in this.<br /> <br /> The course
+      pursued by Mr. Talmage is consistent.<br /> The pulpit cannot afford to
+      abandon the weapons of<br /> falsehood and defamation. Candor sows the
+      seeds of<br /> doubt. Fairness is weakness. The only way to suc-<br />
+      cessfully uphold the religion of universal love, is to<br /> denounce all
+      Freethinkers as blasphemers, adulterers,<br /> and criminals. No matter how
+      generous they may<br /> appear to be, no matter how fairly they may deal
+      with<br /> their fellow-men, rest assured that they are actuated<br /> by
+      the lowest and basest motives. Infidels who out-<br /> wardly live honest
+      and virtuous lives, are inwardly<br /> vicious, virulent and vile. After
+      all, morality is only<br /> a veneering. God is not deceived with the
+      varnish of<br /> good works. We know that the natural man is<br /> totally
+      depraved, and that until he has been regene-<br /> rated by the spirit of
+      God, he is utterly incapable of a<br /> good action. The generosity of the
+      unbeliever is, in<br /> fact, avarice. His honesty is only a form of
+      larceny.<br /> His love is only hatred. No matter how sincerely<br /> he may
+      love his wife,&mdash;how devoted he may be to<br /> his children,&mdash;no
+      matter how ready he may be 'to<br /> <br /> 78<br /> <br /> sacrifice even his
+      life for the good of mankind, God,<br /> looking into his very heart, finds
+      it only a den of<br /> hissing snakes, a lair of wild, ferocious beasts, a
+      cage<br /> of unclean birds.<br /> <br /> The idea that God will save a man
+      simply because<br /> he is honest and generous, is almost too preposterous<br />
+      for serious refutation. No man should rely upon his<br /> own goodness. He
+      should plead the virtue of another.<br /> God, in his infinite justice,
+      damns a good man on his<br /> own merits, and saves a bad man on the merits
+      of<br /> another. The repentant murderer will be an angel<br /> of light,
+      while his honest and unoffending victim will<br /> be a fiend in hell.<br />
+      <br /> A little while ago, a ship, disabled, was blown about<br /> the
+      Atlantic for eighty days. Everything had been<br /> eaten. Nothing remained
+      but bare decks and hunger.<br /> The crew consisted of Captain Kruger and
+      nine others.<br /> For nine days, nothing had been eaten. The captain,<br />
+      taking a revolver in his hand, said: "Mates, some<br /> "one must die for
+      the rest. I am willing to sacrifice<br /> "myself for you." One of his
+      comrades grasped his<br /> hand, and implored him to wait one more day. The<br />
+      next morning, a sail was seen upon the horizon, and<br /> the dying men
+      were rescued.<br /> <br /> To an ordinary man,&mdash;to one guided by the
+      light of<br /> <br /> 79<br /> <br /> reason,&mdash;it is perfectly clear that
+      Captain Kruger was<br /> about to do an infinitely generous action. Yet Mr.<br />
+      Talmage will tell us that if that captain was not a<br /> Christian, and if
+      he had sent the bullet crashing<br /> through his brain in order that his
+      comrades might eat<br /> his body, and live to reach their wives and homes,&mdash;<br />
+      his soul, from that ship, would have gone, by dark<br /> and tortuous ways,
+      down to the prison of eternal pain.<br /> <br /> Is it possible that Christ
+      would eternally damn a<br /> man for doing exactly what Christ would have
+      done,<br /> had he been infinitely generous, under the same cir-<br />
+      cumstances? Is not self-denial in a man as praise-<br /> worthy as in a
+      God? Should a God be worshiped,<br /> and a man be damned, for the same
+      action?<br /> <br /> According to Mr. Talmage, every soldier who fought<br />
+      for our country in the Revolutionary war, who was<br /> not a Christian, is
+      now in hell. Every soldier, not a<br /> Christian, who carried the flag of
+      his country to vic-<br /> tory&mdash;either upon the land or sea, in the
+      war of 1812,<br /> is now in hell. Every soldier, not a Christian, who<br />
+      fought for the preservation of this Union,&mdash;to break<br /> the chains
+      of slavery&mdash;to free four millions of people<br /> &mdash;to keep the
+      whip from the naked back&mdash;every man<br /> who did this&mdash;every one
+      who died at Andersonville<br /> and Libby, dreaming that his death would
+      help make<br /> <br /> 80<br /> <br /> the lives of others worth living, is
+      now a lost and<br /> wretched soul. These men are now in the prison of<br />
+      God,&mdash;a prison in which the cruelties of Libby and<br /> Andersonville
+      would be regarded as mercies,&mdash;in<br /> which famine would be a joy.<br />
+      <br /> <br /> <a name="link0005" id="link0005"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>THIRD
+      INTERVIEW.</b></big><br /> <br /> <i>Sinner. Is God infinite in wisdom and
+      power?<br /> <br /> Parson. He is.<br /> <br /> Sinner. Does he at all times
+      know just what ought<br /> to be done?<br /> <br /> Parson. He does.<br />
+      <br /> Sinner. Does he always do just what ought to be<br /> done?<br />
+      <br /> Parson. He does.<br /> <br /> Sinner. Why do you pray to him?<br />
+      <br /> Parson. Because he is unchangeable.</i><br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      I want to ask you a few questions<br /> about Mr. Talmage's third sermon.
+      What do<br /> you think of it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I often ask myself
+      the questions: Is<br /> there anything in the occupation of a minister,&mdash;any-<br />
+      thing in his surroundings, that makes him incapable<br /> of treating an
+      opponent fairly, or decently? Is there<br /> anything in the doctrine of
+      universal forgiveness that<br /> compels a man to speak of one who differs
+      with him<br /> only in terms of disrespect and hatred? Is it neces-<br />
+      sary for those who profess to love the whole world,<br /> to hate the few
+      they come in actual contact with?<br /> <br /> 84<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage, no
+      doubt, professes to love all man-<br /> kind,&mdash;Jew and Gentile,
+      Christian and Pagan. No<br /> doubt, he believes in the missionary effort,
+      and thinks<br /> we should do all in our power to save the soul of the<br />
+      most benighted savage; and yet he shows anything<br /> but affection for
+      the "heathen" at home. He loves<br /> the ones he never saw,&mdash;is real
+      anxious for their wel-<br /> fare,&mdash;but for the ones he knows, he
+      exhibits only<br /> scorn and hatred. In one breath, he tells us that<br />
+      Christ loves us, and in the next, that we are "wolves<br /> "and dogs." We
+      are informed that Christ forgave<br /> even his murderers, but that now he
+      hates an honest<br /> unbeliever with all his heart. He can forgive the<br />
+      ones who drove the nails into his hands and feet,&mdash;<br /> the one who
+      thrust the spear through his quivering<br /> flesh,&mdash;but he cannot
+      forgive the man who entertains<br /> an honest doubt about the "scheme of
+      salvation."<br /> He regards the man who thinks, as a "mouth-maker<br /> "at
+      heaven." Is it possible that Christ is less for-<br /> giving in heaven
+      than he was in Jerusalem? Did he<br /> excuse murderers then, and does he
+      damn thinkers<br /> now? Once he pitied even thieves; does he now<br />
+      abhor an intellectually honest man?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr.
+      Talmage seems to think that you<br /> have no right to give your opinion
+      about the Bible.<br /> <br /> 85<br /> <br /> Do you think that laymen have
+      the same right as<br /> ministers to examine the Scriptures?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      If God only made a revelation for<br /> preachers, of course we will have
+      to depend on the<br /> preachers for information. But the preachers have<br />
+      made the mistake of showing the revelation. They<br /> ask us, the laymen,
+      to read it, and certainly there is<br /> no use of reading it, unless we
+      are permitted to think<br /> for ourselves while we read. If after reading
+      the Bible<br /> we believe it to be true, we will say so, if we are<br />
+      honest. If we do not believe it, we will say so, if we<br /> are honest.<br />
+      <br /> But why should God be so particular about our<br /> believing the
+      stories in his book? Why should God<br /> object to having his book
+      examined? We do not<br /> have to call upon legislators, or courts, to
+      protect<br /> Shakespeare from the derision of mankind. Was not<br /> God
+      able to write a book that would command the<br /> love and admiration of
+      the world? If the God of<br /> Mr. Talmage is infinite, he knew exactly how
+      the<br /> stories of the Old Testament would strike a gentle-<br /> man of
+      the nineteenth century. He knew that many<br /> would have their doubts,&mdash;that
+      thousands of them&mdash;<br /> and I may say most of them,&mdash;would
+      refuse to believe<br /> that a miracle had ever been performed.<br /> <br />
+      86<br /> <br /> Now, it seems to me that he should either have left<br /> the
+      stories out, or furnished evidence enough to con-<br /> vince the world.
+      According to Mr. Talmage, thou-<br /> sands of people are pouring over the
+      Niagara of<br /> unbelief into the gulf of eternal pain. Why does not<br />
+      God furnish more evidence? Just in proportion as<br /> man has developed
+      intellectually, he has demanded<br /> additional testimony. That which
+      satisfies a barbarian,<br /> excites only the laughter of a civilized man.
+      Cer-<br /> tainly God should furnish evidence in harmony with<br /> the
+      spirit of the age. If God wrote his Bible for the<br /> average man, he
+      should have written it in such a way<br /> that it would have carried
+      conviction to the brain and<br /> heart of the average man; and he should
+      have<br /> made no man in such a way that he could not, by any<br />
+      possibility, believe it. There certainly should be a<br /> harmony between
+      the Bible and the human brain. If<br /> I do not believe the Bible, whose
+      fault is it? Mr.<br /> Talmage insists that his God wrote the Bible for me.<br />
+      and made me. If this is true, the book and the man<br /> should agree.
+      There is no sense in God writing<br /> a book for me and then making me in
+      such a way that<br /> I cannot believe his book.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      But Mr. Talmage says the reason why<br /> you hate the Bible is, that your
+      soul is poisoned; that<br /> <br /> 87<br /> <br /> the Bible "throws you into
+      a rage precisely as pure<br /> "water brings on a paroxysm of hydrophobia."<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Is it because the mind of the infidel is<br />
+      poisoned, that he refuses to believe that an infinite<br /> God commanded
+      the murder of mothers, maidens and<br /> babes? Is it because their minds
+      are impure, that<br /> they refuse to believe that a good God established<br />
+      the institution of human slavery, or that he protected<br /> it when
+      established? Is it because their minds are<br /> vile, that they refuse to
+      believe that an infinite God<br /> established or protected polygamy? Is it
+      a sure<br /> sign of an impure mind, when a man insists that<br /> God never
+      waged wars of extermination against his<br /> helpless children? Does it
+      show that a man has<br /> been entirely given over to the devil, because he<br />
+      refuses to believe that God ordered a father to sacri-<br /> fice his son?
+      Does it show that a heart is entirely<br /> without mercy, simply because a
+      man denies the<br /> justice of eternal pain?<br /> <br /> I denounce many
+      parts of the Old Testament<br /> because they are infinitely repugnant to
+      my sense<br /> of justice,&mdash;because they are bloody, brutal and in-<br />
+      famous,&mdash;because they uphold crime and destroy<br /> human liberty. It
+      is impossible for me to imagine<br /> a greater monster than the God of the
+      Old Testa-<br /> <br /> 88<br /> <br /> ment. He is unworthy of my worship. He
+      com-<br /> mands only my detestation, my execration, and my<br /> passionate
+      hatred. The God who commanded the<br /> murder of children is an infamous
+      fiend. The God<br /> who believed in polygamy, is worthy only of con-<br />
+      tempt. The God who established slavery should be<br /> hated by every free
+      man. The Jehovah of the Jews<br /> was simply a barbarian, and the Old
+      Testament is<br /> mostly the barbarous record of a barbarous people.<br />
+      <br /> If the Jehovah of the Jews is the real God, I do<br /> not wish to be
+      his friend. From him I neither ask,<br /> nor expect, nor would I be
+      willing to receive, even an<br /> eternity of joy. According to the Old
+      Testament,<br /> he established a government,&mdash;a political state,&mdash;and<br />
+      yet, no civilized country to-day would re-enact these<br /> laws of God.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you think of the explanation<br /> given by
+      Mr. Talmage of the stopping of the sun and<br /> moon in the time of
+      Joshua, in order that a battle<br /> might be completed?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Of course, if there is an infinite God,<br /> he could have stopped the sun
+      and moon. No one<br /> pretends to prescribe limits to the power of the<br />
+      infinite. Even admitting that such a being existed,<br /> the question
+      whether he did stop the sun and moon,<br /> <br /> 89<br /> <br /> or not,
+      still remains. According to the account, these<br /> planets were stopped,
+      in order that Joshua might con-<br /> tinue the pursuit of a routed enemy.
+      I take it for<br /> granted that a being of infinite wisdom would not<br />
+      waste any force,&mdash;that he would not throw away any<br />
+      "omnipotence," and that, under ordinary circum-<br /> stances, he would
+      husband his resources. I find that<br /> this spirit exists, at least in
+      embryo, in Mr. Talmage.<br /> He proceeds to explain this miracle. He does
+      not<br /> assert that the earth was stopped on its axis, but sug-<br />
+      gests "refraction" as a way out of the difficulty. Now,<br /> while the
+      stopping of the earth on its axis accounts for<br /> the sun remaining in
+      the same relative position, it does<br /> not account for the stoppage of
+      the moon. The moon<br /> has a motion of its own, and even if the earth had
+      been<br /> stopped in its rotary motion, the moon would have gone<br /> on.
+      The Bible tells us that the moon was stopped. One<br /> would suppose that
+      the sun would have given sufficient<br /> light for all practical purposes.
+      Will Mr. Talmage be<br /> kind enough to explain the stoppage of the moon?<br />
+      Every one knows that the moon is somewhat obscure<br /> when the sun is in
+      the midst of the heavens. The moon<br /> when compared with the sun at such
+      a time, is much<br /> like one of the discourses of Mr. Talmage side by
+      side<br /> with a chapter from Humboldt;&mdash;it is useless.<br /> <br /> 90<br />
+      <br /> In the same chapter in which the account of the<br /> stoppage of the
+      sun and moon is given, we find that<br /> God cast down from heaven great
+      hailstones on<br /> Joshua's enemies. Did he get out of hailstones?<br />
+      Had he no "omnipotence" left? Was it necessary<br /> for him to stop the
+      sun and moon and depend entirely<br /> upon the efforts of Joshua? Would
+      not the force<br /> employed in stopping the rotary motion of the earth<br />
+      have been sufficient to destroy the enemy? Would<br /> not a millionth part
+      of the force necessary to stop the<br /> moon, have pierced the enemy's
+      centre, and rolled up<br /> both his flanks? A resort to lightning would
+      have<br /> been, in my judgment, much more economical and<br /> rather more
+      effective. If he had simply opened the<br /> earth, and swallowed them, as
+      he did Korah and his<br /> company, it would have been a vast saving of<br />
+      "omnipotent" muscle. Yet, the foremost orthodox<br /> minister of the
+      Presbyterian Church,&mdash;the one who<br /> calls all unbelievers "wolves
+      and dogs," and "brazen<br /> "fools," in his effort to account for this
+      miracle, is<br /> driven to the subterfuge of an "optical illusion."<br />
+      We are seriously informed that "God probably<br /> "changed the nature of
+      the air," and performed this<br /> feat of ledgerdemain through the
+      instrumentality of<br /> "refraction." It seems to me it would have been
+      fully<br /> <br /> 91<br /> <br /> as easy to have changed the nature of the
+      air breathed<br /> by the enemy, so that it would not have supported<br />
+      life. He could have accomplished this by changing<br /> only a little air,
+      in that vicinity; whereas, according<br /> to the Talmagian view, he
+      changed the atmosphere<br /> of the world. Or, a small "local flood" might
+      have<br /> done the work. The optical illusion and refraction<br /> view,
+      ingenious as it may appear, was not original<br /> with Mr. Talmage. The
+      Rev. Henry M. Morey, of<br /> South Bend, Indiana, used, upon this subject,
+      the fol-<br /> lowing language; "The phenomenon was simply<br /> "optical.
+      The rotary motion of the earth was not<br /> "disturbed, but the light of
+      the sun was prolonged by<br /> "the same laws of refraction and reflection
+      by which<br /> "the sun now appears to be above the horizon when<br /> "it
+      is really below. The medium through which the<br /> "sun's rays passed,
+      might have been miraculously<br /> "influenced so as to have caused the sun
+      to linger<br /> "above the horizon long after its usual time for dis-<br />
+      "appearance."<br /> <br /> I pronounce the opinion of Mr. Morey to be the<br />
+      ripest product of Christian scholarship. According to<br /> the
+      Morey-Talmage view, the sun lingered somewhat<br /> above the horizon. But
+      this is inconsistent with the<br /> Bible account. We are not told in the
+      Scriptures that<br /> <br /> 92<br /> <br /> the sun "lingered above the
+      horizon," but that it "stood<br /> "still in the midst of heaven for about
+      a whole day."<br /> The trouble about the optical-illusion view is, that it<br />
+      makes the day too long. If the air was miraculously<br /> changed, so that
+      it refracted the rays of the sun, while<br /> the earth turned over as
+      usual for about a whole day,<br /> then, at the end of that time, the sun
+      must have been<br /> again visible in the east. It would then naturally<br />
+      shine twelve hours more, so that this miraculous day<br /> must have been
+      at least thirty-six hours in length.<br /> There were first twelve hours of
+      natural light, then<br /> twelve hours of refracted and reflected light,
+      and then<br /> twelve hours more of natural light. This makes the<br /> day
+      too long. So, I say to Mr. Talmage, as I said to<br /> Mr. Morey: If you
+      will depend a little less on<br /> refraction, and a little more on
+      reflection, you will see<br /> that the whole story is a barbaric myth and
+      foolish<br /> fable.<br /> <br /> For my part, I do not see why God should be<br />
+      pleased to have me believe a story of this character.<br /> I can hardly
+      think that there is great joy in heaven<br /> over another falsehood
+      swallowed. I can imagine<br /> that a man may deny this story, and still be
+      an excel-<br /> lent citizen, a good father, an obliging neighbor, and<br />
+      in all respects a just and truthful man. I can also<br /> <br /> 93<br />
+      <br /> imagine that a man may believe this story, and yet<br /> assassinate
+      a President of the United States.<br /> <br /> I am afraid that Mr. Talmage
+      is beginning to be<br /> touched, in spite of himself, with some new ideas.
+      He<br /> tells us that worlds are born and that worlds die.<br /> This is
+      not exactly the Bible view. You would think<br /> that he imagined that a
+      world was naturally pro-<br /> duced,&mdash;that the aggregation of atoms
+      was natural,<br /> and that disintegration came to worlds, as to men,<br />
+      through old age. Yet this is not the Bible view.<br /> According to the
+      Bible, these worlds were not born,&mdash;<br /> they were created out of
+      "nothing," or out of<br /> "omnipotence," which is much the same. According<br />
+      to the Bible, it took this infinite God six days to make<br /> this atom
+      called earth; and according to the account,<br /> he did not work nights,&mdash;he
+      worked from the morn-<br /> ings to the evenings,&mdash;and I suppose
+      rested nights,<br /> as he has since that time on Sundays.<br /> <br />
+      Admitting that the battle which Joshua fought<br /> was exceedingly
+      important&mdash;which I do not think&mdash;<br /> is it not a little
+      strange that this God, in all subse-<br /> quent battles of the world's
+      history, of which we<br /> know anything, has maintained the strictest neu-<br />
+      trality? The earth turned as usual at Yorktown,<br /> and at Gettysburg the
+      moon pursued her usual<br /> <br /> 94<br /> <br /> course; and so far as I
+      know, neither at Waterloo<br /> nor at Sedan were there any peculiar freaks
+      of "re-<br /> "fraction" or "reflection."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr.
+      Talmage tells us that there was in<br /> the early part of this century a
+      dark day, when<br /> workmen went home from their fields, and legis-<br />
+      latures and courts adjourned, and that the darkness<br /> of that day has
+      not yet been explained. What is<br /> your opinion about that?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. My opinion is, that if at that time we<br /> had been at war
+      with England, and a battle had<br /> been commenced in the morning, and in
+      the after-<br /> noon the American forces had been driven from their<br />
+      position and were hard pressed by the enemy, and<br /> if the day had
+      become suddenly dark, and so dark<br /> that the Americans were thereby
+      enabled to escape,<br /> thousands of theologians of the calibre of Mr.
+      Tal-<br /> mage would have honestly believed that there had<br /> been an
+      interposition of divine Providence. No<br /> battle was fought that day,
+      and consequently, even<br /> the ministers are looking for natural causes.
+      In<br /> olden times, when the heavens were visited by<br /> comets, war,
+      pestilence and famine were predicted.<br /> If wars came, the prediction
+      was remembered; if<br /> <br /> 95<br /> <br /> nothing happened, it was
+      forgotten. When eclipses<br /> visited the sun and moon, the barbarian fell
+      upon his<br /> knees, and accounted for the phenomena by the<br />
+      wickedness of his neighbor. Mr. Talmage tells us<br /> that his father was
+      terrified by the meteoric shower<br /> that visited our earth in 1833. The
+      terror of the<br /> father may account for the credulity of the son.<br />
+      Astronomers will be surprised to read the declaration<br /> of Mr. Talmage
+      that the meteoric shower has never<br /> been explained. Meteors visit the
+      earth every year<br /> of its life, and in a certain portion of the orbit
+      they<br /> are always expected, and they always come. Mr.<br /> Newcomb has
+      written a work on astronomy that<br /> all ministers ought to read.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage also charges you with<br /> "making
+      light of holy things," and seems to be aston-<br /> ished that you should
+      ridicule the anointing oil of<br /> Aaron?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I find
+      that the God who had no time to<br /> say anything on the subject of
+      slavery, and who found<br /> no room upon the tables of stone to say a word<br />
+      against polygamy, and in favor of the rights of<br /> woman, wife and
+      mother, took time to give a recipe<br /> for making hair oil. And in order
+      that the priests<br /> <br /> 96<br /> <br /> might have the exclusive right
+      to manufacture this oil,<br /> decreed the penalty of death on all who
+      should<br /> infringe. I admit that I am incapable of seeing the<br />
+      beauty of this symbol. Neither could I ever see the<br /> necessity of
+      Masons putting oil on the corner-stone<br /> of a building. Of course, I do
+      not know the exact<br /> chemical effect that oil has on stone, and I see
+      no harm<br /> in laughing at such a ceremony. If the oil does good,<br />
+      the laughter will do no harm; and if the oil will do no<br /> harm, the
+      laughter will do no good. Personally, I am<br /> willing that Masons should
+      put oil on all stones; but,<br /> if Masons should insist that I must
+      believe in the effi-<br /> cacy of the ceremony, or be eternally damned, I<br />
+      would have about the same feeling toward the<br /> Masons that I now have
+      toward Mr. Talmage. I<br /> presume that at one time the putting of oil on
+      a<br /> corner-stone had some meaning; but that it ever did<br /> any good,
+      no sensible man will insist. It is a custom<br /> to break a bottle of
+      champagne over the bow of<br /> a newly-launched ship, but I have never
+      considered<br /> this ceremony important to the commercial interests<br />
+      of the world.<br /> <br /> I have the same opinion about putting oil on<br />
+      stones, as about putting water on heads. For my<br /> part, I see no good
+      in the rite of baptism. Still, it<br /> <br /> 97<br /> <br /> may do no harm,
+      unless people are immersed during<br /> cold weather. Neither have I the
+      slightest objection<br /> to the baptism of anybody; but if people tell me
+      that<br /> I must be baptized or suffer eternal agony, then I deny<br /> it.
+      If they say that baptism does any earthly good, I<br /> deny it. No one
+      objects to any harmless ceremony;<br /> but the moment it is insisted that
+      a ceremony is neces-<br /> sary, the reason of which no man can see, then
+      the<br /> practice of the ceremony becomes hurtful, for the<br /> reason
+      that it is maintained only at the expense of<br /> intelligence and
+      manhood.<br /> <br /> It is hurtful for people to imagine that they can<br />
+      please God by any ceremony whatever. If there is<br /> any God, there is
+      only one way to please him, and<br /> that is, by a conscientious discharge
+      of your obliga-<br /> tions to your fellow-men. Millions of people imagine<br />
+      that they can please God by wearing certain kinds<br /> of cloth. Think of
+      a God who can be pleased with<br /> a coat of a certain cut! Others, to
+      earn a smile of<br /> heaven, shave their heads, or trim their beards, or<br />
+      perforate their ears or lips or noses. Others maim<br /> and mutilate their
+      bodies. Others think to please<br /> God by simply shutting their eyes, by
+      swinging<br /> censers, by lighting candles, by repeating poor Latin,<br />
+      by making a sign of the cross with holy water, by<br /> <br /> 98<br /> <br />
+      ringing bells, by going without meat, by eating fish,<br /> by getting
+      hungry, by counting beads, by making<br /> themselves miserable Sundays, by
+      looking solemn,<br /> by refusing to marry, by hearing sermons; and<br />
+      others imagine that they can please God by calumni-<br /> ating
+      unbelievers.<br /> <br /> There is an old story of an Irishman who, when<br />
+      dying, sent for a priest. The reputation of the<br /> dying man was so
+      perfectly miserable, that the priest<br /> refused to administer the rite
+      of extreme unction.<br /> The priest therefore asked him if he could
+      recollect<br /> any decent action that he had ever done. The dying<br /> man
+      said that he could not. "Very well," said the<br /> priest, "then you will
+      have to be damned." In a<br /> moment, the pinched and pale face
+      brightened, and<br /> he said to the priest: "I have thought of one good<br />
+      "action." "What is it?" asked the priest. And the<br /> dying man said,
+      "Once I killed a gauger."<br /> <br /> I suppose that in the next world some
+      ministers,<br /> driven to extremes, may reply: "Once I told a lie<br />
+      "about an infidel."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. You see that Mr. Talmage
+      still sticks to<br /> the whale and Jonah story. What do you think of<br />
+      his argument, or of his explanation, rather, of that<br /> miracle?<br />
+      <br /> 99<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The edge of his orthodoxy seems to be<br />
+      crumbling. He tells us that "there is in the mouth<br /> "of the common
+      whale a cavity large enough for a<br /> "man to live in without descent
+      into his stomach,"&mdash;<br /> and yet Christ says, that Jonah was in the
+      whale's<br /> belly, not in his mouth. But why should Mr. Tal-<br /> mage
+      say that? We are told in the sacred account<br /> that "God prepared a
+      great fish" for the sole pur-<br /> pose of having Jonah swallowed. The
+      size of the<br /> present whale has nothing to do with the story. No<br />
+      matter whether the throat of the whale of to-day is<br /> large or small,&mdash;that
+      has nothing to do with it. The<br /> simple story is, that God prepared a
+      fish and had<br /> Jonah swallowed. And yet Mr. Talmage throws out<br /> the
+      suggestion that probably this whale held Jonah<br /> in his mouth for three
+      days and nights. I admit that<br /> Jonah's chance for air would have been
+      a little better<br /> in his mouth, and his chance for water a little
+      worse.<br /> Probably the whale that swallowed Jonah was the<br /> same fish
+      spoken of by Procopius,&mdash;both accounts<br /> being entitled, in my
+      judgment, to equal credence.<br /> I am a little surprised that Mr. Talmage
+      forgot<br /> to mention the fish spoken of by Munchausen&mdash;an<br />
+      equally reliable author,&mdash;and who has given, not<br /> simply the bald
+      fact that a fish swallowed a ship, but<br /> <br /> 100<br /> <br /> was good
+      enough to furnish the details. Mr. Talmage<br /> should remember that out
+      of Jonah's biography<br /> grew the habit of calling any remarkable lie, "a
+      fish<br /> "story." There is one thing that Mr. Talmage<br /> should not
+      forget; and that is, that miracles should<br /> not be explained. Miracles
+      are told simply to be<br /> believed, not to be understood.<br /> <br />
+      Somebody suggested to Mr. Talmage that, in<br /> all probability, a person
+      in the stomach of a whale<br /> would be digested in less than three days.
+      Mr. Tal-<br /> mage, again showing his lack of confidence in God,<br />
+      refusing to believe that God could change the nature<br /> of gastric
+      juice,&mdash;having no opportunity to rely<br /> upon "refraction or
+      reflection," frankly admits that<br /> Jonah had to save himself by keeping
+      on the<br /> constant go and jump. This gastric-juice theory of<br /> Mr.
+      Talmage is an abandonment of his mouth hy-<br /> pothesis. I do not wonder
+      that Mr. Talmage thought<br /> of the mouth theory. Possibly, the two
+      theories had<br /> better be united&mdash;so that we may say that Jonah,<br />
+      when he got tired of the activity necessary to<br /> avoid the gastric
+      juice, could have strolled into<br /> the mouth for a rest. What a picture!
+      Jonah<br /> sitting on the edge of the lower jaw, wiping the<br />
+      perspiration and the gastric juice from his anxious<br /> <br /> 101<br />
+      <br /> face, and vainly looking through the open mouth<br /> for signs of
+      land!<br /> <br /> In this story of Jonah, we are told that "the Lord<br />
+      "spake unto the fish." In what language? It must<br /> be remembered that
+      this fish was only a few hours<br /> old. He had been prepared during the
+      storm, for<br /> the sole purpose of swallowing Jonah. He was a<br /> fish
+      of exceedingly limited experience. He had no<br /> hereditary knowledge,
+      because he did not spring<br /> from ancestors; consequently, he had no
+      instincts.<br /> Would such a fish understand any language? It<br /> may be
+      contended that the fish, having been made<br /> for the occasion, was given
+      a sufficient knowledge<br /> of language to understand an ordinary command-<br />
+      ment; but, if Mr. Talmage is right, I think an order<br /> to the fish
+      would have been entirely unnecessary.<br /> When we take into consideration
+      that a thing the<br /> size of a man had been promenading up and down<br />
+      the stomach of this fish for three days and three<br /> nights,
+      successfully baffling the efforts of gastric<br /> juice, we can readily
+      believe that the fish was as<br /> anxious to have Jonah go, as Jonah was
+      to leave.<br /> <br /> But the whale part is, after all, not the most won-<br />
+      derful portion of the book of Jonah. According to<br /> this wonderful
+      account, "the word of the Lord came<br /> <br /> 102<br /> <br /> "to Jonah,"
+      telling him to "go and cry against the<br /> "city of Nineveh;" but Jonah,
+      instead of going,<br /> endeavored to evade the Lord by taking ship for<br />
+      Tarshish. As soon as the Lord heard of this, he<br /> "sent out a great
+      wind into the sea," and frightened<br /> the sailors to that extent that
+      after assuring them-<br /> selves, by casting lots, that Jonah was the man,
+      they<br /> threw him into the sea. After escaping from the<br /> whale, he
+      went to Nineveh, and delivered his pre-<br /> tended message from God. In
+      consequence of his<br /> message, Jonah having no credentials from God,&mdash;<br />
+      nothing certifying to his official character, the King<br /> of Nineveh
+      covered himself with sack-cloth and sat<br /> down in some ashes. He then
+      caused a decree to<br /> be issued that every man and beast should abstain<br />
+      from food and water; and further, that every man and<br /> beast should be
+      covered with sack-cloth. This was<br /> done in the hope that Jonah's God
+      would repent, and<br /> turn away his fierce anger. When we take into con-<br />
+      sideration the fact that the people of Nineveh were<br /> not Hebrews, and
+      had not the slightest confidence in<br /> the God of the Jews&mdash;knew no
+      more of, and cared no<br /> more for, Jehovah than we now care for Jupiter,
+      or<br /> Neptune; the effect produced by the proclamation of<br /> Jonah is,
+      to say the least of it, almost incredible.<br /> <br /> 103<br /> <br /> We
+      are also informed, in this book, that the<br /> moment God saw all the
+      people sitting in the ashes,<br /> and all the animals covered with
+      sack-cloth, he<br /> repented. This failure on the part of God to destroy<br />
+      the unbelievers displeased Jonah exceedingly, and<br /> he was very angry.
+      Jonah was much like the<br /> modern minister, who seems always to be
+      personally<br /> aggrieved if the pestilence and famine prophesied by<br />
+      him do not come. Jonah was displeased to that<br /> degree, that he asked
+      God to kill him. Jonah then<br /> went out of the city, even after God had
+      repented,<br /> made him a booth and sat under it, in the shade,<br />
+      waiting to see what would become of the city. God<br /> then "prepared a
+      gourd, and made it to come up<br /> "over Jonah that it might be a shadow
+      over his<br /> "head to deliver him from his grief." And then we<br /> have
+      this pathetic line: "So Jonah was exceedingly<br /> "glad of the gourd."<br />
+      <br /> God having prepared a fish, and also prepared<br /> a gourd, proposed
+      next morning to prepare a worm.<br /> And when the sun rose next day, the
+      worm that<br /> God had prepared, "smote the gourd, so that<br /> "it
+      withered." I can hardly believe that an in-<br /> finite being prepared a
+      worm to smite a gourd<br /> so that it withered, in order to keep the sun
+      from<br /> <br /> 104<br /> <br /> the bald head of a prophet. According to
+      the<br /> account, after sunrise, and after the worm had<br /> smitten the
+      gourd, "God prepared a vehement east<br /> "wind." This was not an ordinary
+      wind, but one<br /> prepared expressly for that occasion. After the wind<br />
+      had been prepared, "the sun beat upon the head of<br /> "Jonah, and he
+      fainted, and wished in himself to<br /> "die." All this was done in order
+      to convince<br /> Jonah that a man who would deplore the loss of a<br />
+      gourd, ought not to wish for the destruction of a city.<br /> <br /> Is it
+      possible for any intelligent man now to<br /> believe that the history of
+      Jonah is literally true?<br /> For my part, I cannot see the necessity
+      either of<br /> believing it, or of preaching it. It has nothing to do<br />
+      with honesty, with mercy, or with morality. The<br /> bad may believe it,
+      and the good may hold it in<br /> contempt. I do not see that civilization
+      has the<br /> slightest interest in the fish, the gourd, the worm, or<br />
+      the vehement east wind.<br /> <br /> Does Mr. Talmage think that it is
+      absolutely neces-<br /> sary to believe <i>all</i> the story? Does he not
+      think it<br /> probable that a God of infinite mercy, rather than<br /> damn
+      the soul of an honest man to hell forever, would<br /> waive, for instance,
+      the worm,&mdash;provided he believed<br /> in the vehement east wind, the
+      gourd and the fish?<br /> <br /> 105<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage, by insisting on
+      the literal truth of<br /> the Bible stories, is doing Christianity great
+      harm.<br /> Thousands of young men will say: "I can't become<br /> "a
+      Christian if it is necessary to believe the adven-<br /> "tures of Jonah."
+      Mr. Talmage will put into the<br /> paths of multitudes of people willing
+      to do right,<br /> anxious to make the world a little better than it is,&mdash;<br />
+      this stumbling block. He could have explained it,<br /> called it an
+      allegory, poetical license, a child of the<br /> oriental imagination, a
+      symbol, a parable, a poem, a<br /> dream, a legend, a myth, a divine
+      figure, or a great<br /> truth wrapped in the rags and shreds and patches
+      of<br /> seeming falsehood. His efforts to belittle the miracle,<br /> to
+      suggest the mouth instead of the stomach,&mdash;to<br /> suggest that Jonah
+      took deck passage, or lodged in<br /> the forecastle instead of in the
+      cabin or steerage,&mdash;<br /> to suggest motion as a means of avoiding
+      digestion,<br /> is a serious theological blunder, and may cause the<br />
+      loss of many souls.<br /> <br /> If Mr. Talmage will consult with other
+      ministers,<br /> they will tell him to let this story alone&mdash;that he
+      will<br /> simply "provoke investigation and discussion"&mdash;two<br />
+      things to be avoided. They will tell him that they<br /> are not willing
+      their salary should hang on so slender<br /> a thread, and will advise him
+      not to bother his gourd<br /> <br /> 106<br /> <br /> about Jonah's. They will
+      also tell him that in this<br /> age of the world, arguments cannot be
+      answered by<br /> "a vehement east wind."<br /> <br /> Some people will think
+      that it would have been<br /> just as easy for God to have pulled the gourd
+      up, as<br /> to have prepared a worm to bite it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Mr. Talmage charges that you have<br /> said there are indecencies in the
+      Bible. Are you<br /> still of that opinion?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Mr.
+      Talmage endeavors to evade the<br /> charge, by saying that "there are
+      things in the Bible<br /> "not intended to be read, either in the family
+      circle,<br /> "or in the pulpit, but nevertheless they are to be<br />
+      "read." My own judgment is, that an infinite being<br /> should not inspire
+      the writing of indecent things.<br /> It will not do to say, that the Bible
+      description of sin<br /> "warns and saves." There is nothing in the history<br />
+      of Tamar calculated to "warn and save and the<br /> same may be said of
+      many other passages in the<br /> Old Testament. Most Christians would be
+      glad<br /> to know that all such passages are interpolations.<br /> I regret
+      that Shakespeare ever wrote a line that<br /> could not be read any where,
+      and by any person.<br /> But Shakespeare, great as he was, did not rise en-<br />
+      <br /> 107<br /> <br /> tirely above his time. So of most poets. Nearly all<br />
+      have stained their pages with some vulgarity; and I<br /> am sorry for it,
+      and hope the time will come when<br /> we shall have an edition of all the
+      great writers and<br /> poets from which every such passage is elimi-<br />
+      nated.<br /> <br /> It is with the Bible as with most other books. It<br />
+      is a mingling of good and bad. There are many<br /> exquisite passages in
+      the Bible,&mdash;many good laws,&mdash;<br /> many wise sayings,&mdash;and
+      there are many passages<br /> that should never have been written. I do not
+      pro-<br /> pose to throw away the good on account of the<br /> bad, neither
+      do I propose to accept the bad on<br /> account of the good. The Bible need
+      not be taken<br /> as an entirety. It is the business of every man who<br />
+      reads it, to discriminate between that which is good<br /> and that which
+      is bad. There are also many passages<br /> neither good nor bad,&mdash;wholly
+      and totally indifferent<br /> &mdash;conveying 110 information&mdash;utterly
+      destitute of<br /> ideas,&mdash;and as to these passages, my only objection<br />
+      to them is that they waste time and paper.<br /> <br /> I am in favor of
+      every passage in the Bible that<br /> conveys information. I am in favor of
+      every wise<br /> proverb, of every verse coming from human ex-<br />
+      perience and that appeals to the heart of man. I am<br /> <br /> 108<br />
+      <br /> in favor of every passage that inculcates justice,<br /> generosity,
+      purity, and mercy. I am satisfied that<br /> much of the historical part is
+      false. Some of it<br /> is probably true. Let us have the courage to take<br />
+      the true, and throw the false away. I am satisfied<br /> that many of the
+      passages are barbaric, and many of<br /> them are good. Let us have the
+      wisdom to accept<br /> the good and to reject the barbaric.<br /> <br /> No
+      system of religion should go in partnership<br /> with barbarism. Neither
+      should any Christian feel<br /> it his duty to defend the savagery of the
+      past. The<br /> philosophy of Christ must stand independently of the<br />
+      mistakes of the Old Testament. We should do jus-<br /> tice whether a woman
+      was made from a rib or from<br /> "omnipotence." We should be merciful
+      whether<br /> the flood was general, or local. We should be kind<br /> and
+      obliging whether Jonah was swallowed by a fish<br /> or not. The miraculous
+      has nothing to do with the<br /> moral. Intelligence is of more value than
+      inspiration.<br /> Brain is better than Bible. Reason is above all<br />
+      religion. I do not believe that any civilized human<br /> being clings to
+      the Bible on account of its barbaric<br /> passages. I am candid enough to
+      believe that every<br /> Christian in the world would think more of the
+      Bible,<br /> if it had not upheld slavery, if it had denounced<br /> <br />
+      109<br /> <br /> polygamy, if it had cried out against wars of exter-<br />
+      mination, if it had spared women and babes, if it had<br /> upheld
+      everywhere, and at all times, the standard of<br /> justice and mercy. But
+      when it is claimed that the<br /> book is perfect, that it is inspired,
+      that it is, in fact,<br /> the work of an infinitely wise and good God,&mdash;then<br />
+      it should be without a defect. There should not be<br /> within its lids an
+      impure word; it should not express<br /> an impure thought. There should
+      not be one word<br /> in favor of injustice, not one word in favor of
+      slavery,<br /> not one word in favor of wars of extermination.<br /> There
+      must be another revision of the Scriptures.<br /> The chaff must be thrown
+      away. The dross must<br /> be rejected; and only that be retained which is
+      in<br /> exact harmony with the brain and heart of the<br /> greatest and
+      the best.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges you with unfair-<br />
+      ness, because you account for the death of art in<br /> Palestine, by the
+      commandment which forbids the<br /> making of graven images.<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      I have said that that commandment was<br /> the death of art, and I say so
+      still. I insist that by<br /> reason of that commandment, Palestine
+      produced no<br /> painter and no sculptor until after the destruction of<br />
+      <br /> 110<br /> <br /> Jerusalem. Mr. Talmage, in order to answer that<br />
+      statement, goes on to show that hundreds and thou-<br /> sands of pictures
+      were produced in the Middle Ages.<br /> That is a departure in pleading.
+      Will he give us the<br /> names of the painters that existed in Palestine
+      from<br /> Mount Sinai to the destruction of the temple? Will<br /> he give
+      us the names of the sculptors between those<br /> times? Mohammed
+      prohibited his followers from<br /> making any representation of human or
+      animal life,<br /> and as a result, Mohammedans have never produced<br /> a
+      painter nor a sculptor, except in the portrayal and<br /> chiseling of
+      vegetable forms. They were confined<br /> to trees and vines, and flowers.
+      No Mohammedan<br /> has portrayed the human face or form. But the<br />
+      commandment of Jehovah went farther than that of<br /> Momammed, and
+      prevented portraying the image of<br /> anything. The assassination of art
+      was complete.<br /> <br /> There is another thing that should not be
+      forgotten.<br /> <br /> We are indebted for the encouragement of<br /> art,
+      not to the Protestant Church; if indebted to any,<br /> it is to the
+      Catholic. The Catholic adorned the cathedral<br /> <br /> with painting and
+      statue&mdash;not the Protestant.<br /> The Protestants opposed music and
+      painting, and<br /> refused to decorate their temples. But if Mr. Tal-<br />
+      mage wishes to know to whom we are indebted for<br /> <br /> 111<br /> <br />
+      art, let him read the mythology of Greece and Rome.<br /> The early
+      Christians destroyed paintings and statues.<br /> They were the enemies of
+      all beauty. They hated<br /> and detested every expression of art. They
+      looked<br /> upon the love of statues as a form of idolatry. They<br />
+      looked upon every painting as a remnant of Pagan-<br /> ism. They destroyed
+      all upon which they could lay<br /> their ignorant hands. Hundred of years
+      afterwards,<br /> the world was compelled to search for the fragments<br />
+      that Christian fury had left. The Greeks filled the<br /> world with
+      beauty. For every stream and mountain<br /> and cataract they had a god or
+      goddess. Their<br /> sculptors impersonated every dream and hope, and<br />
+      their mythology feeds, to-day, the imagination of<br /> mankind. The Venus
+      de Milo is the impersonation<br /> of beauty, in ruin&mdash;the sublimest
+      fragment of the<br /> ancient world. Our mythology is infinitely unpoetic<br />
+      and barren&mdash;our deity an old bachelor from eternity,<br /> who once
+      believed in indiscriminate massacre. Upon<br /> the throne of our heaven,
+      woman finds no place.<br /> Our mythology is destitute of the maternal.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage denies your statement<br /> that the Old
+      Testament humiliates woman. He also<br /> denies that the New Testament
+      says anything<br /> against woman. How is it?<br /> <br /> 112<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Of course, I never considered a book up-<br /> holding polygamy to be the
+      friend of woman. Eve,<br /> according to that book, is the mother of us
+      all, and<br /> yet the inspired writer does not tell us how long she<br />
+      lived,&mdash;does not even mention her death,&mdash;makes<br /> not the
+      slightest reference as to what finally became<br /> of her. Methuselah
+      lived nine hundred and sixty-<br /> nine years, and yet, there is not the
+      slightest mention<br /> made of Mrs. Methuselah. Enoch was translated,<br />
+      and his widow is not mentioned. There is not a<br /> word about Mrs. Seth,
+      or Mrs. Enos, or Mrs. Cainan,<br /> or Mrs. Mahalaleel, or Mrs. Jared. We
+      do not<br /> know the name of Mrs. Noah, and I believe not the<br /> name of
+      a solitary woman is given from the creation<br /> of Eve&mdash;with the
+      exception of two of Lamech's<br /> wives&mdash;until Sarai is mentioned as
+      being the wife<br /> of Abram.<br /> <br /> If you wish really to know the
+      Bible estimation of<br /> woman, turn to the fourth and fifth verses of the<br />
+      twelfth chapter of Leviticus, in which a woman, for<br /> the crime of
+      having borne a son, is unfit to touch a<br /> hallowed thing, or to come in
+      the holy sanctuary for<br /> thirty-three days; but if a woman was the
+      mother<br /> of a girl, then she became totally unfit to enter the<br />
+      sanctuary, or pollute with her touch a hallowed thing,<br /> <br /> 113<br />
+      <br /> for sixty-six days. The pollution was twice as great<br /> when she
+      had borne a daughter.<br /> <br /> It is a little difficult to see why it is
+      a greater crime<br /> to give birth to a daughter than to a son. Surely, a<br />
+      law like that did not tend to the elevation of woman.<br /> You will also
+      find in the same chapter that a woman<br /> had to offer a pigeon, or a
+      turtle-dove, as a sin offer-<br /> ing, in order to expiate the crime of
+      having become a<br /> mother. By the Levitical law, a mother was unclean.<br />
+      The priest had to make an atonement for her.<br /> <br /> If there is,
+      beneath the stars, a figure of complete<br /> and perfect purity, it is a
+      mother holding in her arms<br /> her child. The laws respecting women,
+      given by<br /> commandment of Jehovah to the Jews, were born of<br />
+      barbarism, and in this day and age should be re-<br /> garded only with
+      detestation and contempt. The<br /> twentieth and twenty-first verses of
+      the nineteenth<br /> chapter of Leviticus show that the same punishment<br />
+      was not meted to men and women guilty of the<br /> same crime.<br /> <br />
+      The real explanation of what we find in the Old<br /> Testament degrading
+      to woman, lies in the fact, that<br /> the overflow of Love's mysterious
+      Nile&mdash;the sacred<br /> source of life&mdash;was, by its savage
+      authors, deemed<br /> unclean.<br /> <br /> 114<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      But what have you to say about the<br /> women of the Bible, mentioned by
+      Mr. Talmage,<br /> and held up as examples for all time of all that is<br />
+      sweet and womanly?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I believe that Esther is his
+      principal<br /> heroine. Let us see who she was.<br /> <br /> According to
+      the book of Esther, Ahasuerus who<br /> was king of Persia, or some such
+      place, ordered<br /> Vashti his queen to show herself to the people<br />
+      and the princes, because she was "exceedingly fair<br /> "to look upon."
+      For some reason&mdash;modesty per-<br /> haps&mdash;she refused to appear.
+      And thereupon the<br /> king "sent letters into all his provinces and to
+      every<br /> "people after their language, that every man should<br /> "bear
+      rule in his own house;" it being feared that<br /> if it should become
+      public that Vashti had disobeyed,<br /> all other wives might follow her
+      example. The king<br /> also, for the purpose of impressing upon all women<br />
+      the necessity of obeying their husbands, issued a<br /> decree that "Vashti
+      should come no more before<br /> "him," and that he would "give her royal
+      estate<br /> "unto another." This was done that "all the<br /> "wives should
+      give to their husbands honor, both to<br /> "great and small."<br /> <br />
+      After this, "the king appointed officers in all the<br /> <br /> 115<br />
+      <br /> "provinces of his kingdom that they might gather<br /> "together all
+      the fair young virgins," and bring<br /> them to his palace, put them in
+      the custody of<br /> his chamberlain, and have them thoroughly washed.<br />
+      Then the king was to look over the lot and take<br /> each day the one that
+      pleased him best until he found<br /> the one to put in the place of
+      Vashti. A fellow by<br /> the name of Mordecai, living in that part of the<br />
+      country, hearing of the opportunity to sell a girl,<br /> brought Esther,
+      his uncle's daughter,&mdash;she being an<br /> orphan, and very beautiful&mdash;to
+      see whether she<br /> might not be the lucky one.<br /> <br /> The remainder
+      of the second chapter of this<br /> book, I do not care to repeat. It is
+      sufficient to say<br /> that Esther at last was chosen.<br /> <br /> The king
+      at this time did not know that Esther<br /> was a Jewess. Mordecai her
+      kinsman, however,<br /> discovered a plot to assassinate the king, and
+      Esther<br /> told the king, and the two plotting gentlemen were<br /> hanged
+      on a tree.<br /> <br /> After a while, a man by the name of Haman was<br />
+      made Secretary of State, and everybody coming in<br /> his presence bowed
+      except Mordecai. Mordecai was<br /> probably depending on the influence of
+      Esther.<br /> Haman finally became so vexed, that he made up<br /> <br /> 116<br />
+      <br /> his mind to have all the Jews in the kingdom<br /> destroyed. (The
+      number of Jews at that time<br /> in Persia must have been immense.) Haman
+      there-<br /> upon requested the king to have an order issued to<br />
+      destroy all the Jews, and in consideration of the<br /> order, proposed to
+      pay ten thousand talents of silver.<br /> And thereupon, letters were
+      written to the governors<br /> of the various provinces, sealed with the
+      king's ring,<br /> sent by post in all directions, with instructions to
+      kill<br /> all the Jews, both young and old&mdash;little children and<br />
+      women,&mdash;in one day. (One would think that the<br /> king copied this
+      order from another part of the Old<br /> Testament, or had found an
+      original by Jehovah.) The<br /> people immediately made preparations for
+      the killing.<br /> Mordecai clothed himself with sack-cloth, and Esther<br />
+      called upon one of the king's chamberlains, and she<br /> finally got the
+      history of the affair, as well as a copy<br /> of the writing, and
+      thereupon made up her mind to<br /> go in and ask the king to save her
+      people.<br /> <br /> At that time, Bismarck's idea of government being<br />
+      in full force, any one entering the king's presence with-<br /> out an
+      invitation, was liable to be put to death. And<br /> in case any one did go
+      in to see the king, if the king<br /> failed to hold out his golden
+      sceptre, his life was not<br /> spared. Notwithstanding this order, Esther
+      put on<br /> <br /> 117<br /> <br /> her best clothes, and stood in the inner
+      court of the<br /> king's house, while the king sat on his royal throne.<br />
+      When the king saw her standing in the court, he<br /> held out his sceptre,
+      and Esther drew near, and he<br /> asked her what she wished; and thereupon
+      she<br /> asked that the king and Haman might take dinner<br /> with her
+      that day, and it was done. While they were<br /> feasting, the king again
+      asked Esther what she<br /> wanted; and her second request was, that they<br />
+      would come and dine with her once more. When<br /> Haman left the palace
+      that day, he saw Mordecai<br /> again at the gate, standing as stiffly as
+      usual, and it<br /> filled Haman with indignation. So Haman, taking<br />
+      the advice of his wife, made a gallows fifty cubits<br /> high, for the
+      special benefit of Mordecai. The next<br /> day, when Haman went to see the
+      king, the king,<br /> having the night before refreshed his memory in<br />
+      respect to the service done him by Mordecai, asked<br /> Haman what ought
+      to be done for the man whom<br /> the king wished to honor. Haman,
+      supposing of<br /> course that the king referred to him, said that royal<br />
+      purple ought to be brought forth, such as the king<br /> wore, and the
+      horse that the king rode on, and the<br /> crown-royal should be set on the
+      man's head;&mdash;that<br /> one of the most noble princes should lead the
+      horse,<br /> <br /> 118<br /> <br /> and as he went through the streets,
+      proclaim: "Thus<br /> "shall it be done to the man whom the king de-<br />
+      "lighteth to honor."<br /> <br /> Thereupon the king told Haman that
+      Mordecai<br /> was the man that the king wished to honor. And<br /> Haman
+      was forced to lead this horse, backed by<br /> Mordecai, through the
+      streets, shouting: "This shall<br /> "be done to the man whom the king
+      delighteth to<br /> "honor." Immediately afterward, he went to the<br />
+      banquet that Esther had prepared, and the king<br /> again asked Esther her
+      petition. She then asked<br /> for the salvation of her people; stating at
+      the same<br /> time, that if her people had been sold into slavery,<br />
+      she would have held her tongue; but since they<br /> were about to be
+      killed, she could not keep silent.<br /> The king asked her who had done
+      this thing; and<br /> Esther replied that it was the wicked Haman.<br />
+      <br /> Thereupon one of the chamberlains, remembering<br /> the gallows that
+      had been made for Mordecai, men-<br /> tioned it, and the king immediately
+      ordered that<br /> Haman be hanged thereon; which was done. And<br />
+      Mordecai immediately became Secretary of State.<br /> The order against the
+      Jews was then rescinded; and<br /> Ahasuerus, willing to do anything that
+      Esther de-<br /> sired, hanged all of Haman's folks. He not only did<br />
+      <br /> 119<br /> <br /> this, but he immediately issued an order to all the<br />
+      Jews allowing them to kill the other folks. And the<br /> Jews got together
+      throughout one hundred and<br /> twenty-seven provinces, "and such was
+      their power,<br /> "that no man could stand against them; and there-<br />
+      "upon the Jews smote all their enemies with the<br /> "stroke of the sword,
+      and with slaughter and de-<br /> "struction, and did whatever they pleased
+      to those<br /> "who hated them." And in the palace of the king,<br /> the
+      Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men, besides<br /> ten sons of Haman;
+      and in the rest of the provinces,<br /> they slew seventy-five thousand
+      people. And after<br /> this work of slaughter, the Jews had a day of glad-<br />
+      ness and feasting.<br /> <br /> One can see from this, what a beautiful
+      Bible<br /> character Esther was&mdash;how filled with all that is<br />
+      womanly, gentle, kind and tender!<br /> <br /> This story is one of the most
+      unreasonable, as well<br /> as one of the most heartless and revengeful, in
+      the<br /> whole Bible. Ahasuerus was a monster, and Esther<br /> equally
+      infamous; and yet, this woman is held up for<br /> the admiration of
+      mankind by a Brooklyn pastor.<br /> There is this peculiarity about the
+      book of Esther:<br /> the name of God is not mentioned in it, and the<br />
+      deity is not referred to, directly or indirectly;&mdash;yet<br /> <br /> 120<br />
+      <br /> it is claimed to be an inspired book. If Jehovah<br /> wrote it, he
+      certainly cannot be charged with<br /> egotism.<br /> <br /> I most
+      cheerfully admit that the book of Ruth is<br /> quite a pleasant story, and
+      the affection of Ruth for<br /> her mother-in-law exceedingly touching, but
+      I am of<br /> opinion that Ruth did many things that would be re-<br />
+      garded as somewhat indiscreet, even in the city of<br /> Brooklyn.<br />
+      <br /> All I can find about Hannah is, that she made a<br /> little coat for
+      her boy Samuel, and brought it to him<br /> from year to year. Where he got
+      his vest and<br /> pantaloons we are not told. But this fact seems<br />
+      hardly enough to make her name immortal.<br /> <br /> So also Mr. Talmage
+      refers us to the wonderful<br /> woman Abigail. The story about Abigail,
+      told in<br /> plain English, is this: David sent some of his fol-<br />
+      lowers to Nabal, Abigail's husband, and demanded<br /> food. Nabal, who
+      knew nothing about David, and<br /> cared less, refused. Abigail heard
+      about it, and took<br /> food to David and his servants. She was very much<br />
+      struck, apparently, with David and David with her.<br /> A few days
+      afterward Nabal died&mdash;supposed to have<br /> been killed by the Lord&mdash;but
+      probably poisoned;<br /> and thereupon David took Abigail to wife. The<br />
+      <br /> 121<br /> <br /> whole matter should have been investigated by the<br />
+      grand jury.<br /> <br /> We are also referred to Dorcas, who no doubt was a<br />
+      good woman&mdash;made clothes for the poor and gave<br /> alms, as millions
+      have done since then. It seems<br /> that this woman died. Peter was sent
+      for, and there-<br /> upon raised her from the dead, and she is never men-<br />
+      tioned any more. Is it not a little strange that a<br /> woman who had been
+      actually raised from the dead,<br /> should have so completely passed out
+      of the memory<br /> of her time, that when she died the second time, she<br />
+      was entirely unnoticed?<br /> <br /> Is it not astonishing that so little is
+      in the New<br /> Testament concerning the mother of Christ? My<br /> own
+      opinion is, that she was an excellent woman, and<br /> the wife of Joseph;
+      and that Joseph was the actual<br /> father of Christ. I think there can be
+      no reasonable<br /> doubt that such was the opinion of the authors of the<br />
+      original gospels. Upon any other hypothesis, it is<br /> impossible to
+      account for their having given the<br /> genealogy of Joseph to prove that
+      Christ was of the<br /> blood of David. The idea that he was the Son of<br />
+      God, or in any way miraculously produced, was an<br /> afterthought, and is
+      hardly entitled now to serious<br /> consideration. The gospels were
+      written so long after<br /> <br /> 122<br /> <br /> the death of Christ, that
+      very little was known of him,<br /> and substantially nothing of his
+      parents. How is it<br /> that not one word is said about the death of Mary&mdash;<br />
+      not one word about the death of Joseph? How did<br /> it happen that Christ
+      did not visit his mother after his<br /> resurrection? The first time he
+      speaks to his mother<br /> is when he was twelve years old. His mother
+      having<br /> told him that she and his father had been seeking<br /> him, he
+      replied: "How is it that ye sought me: wist<br /> "ye not that I must be
+      about my Father s business?"<br /> <br /> The second time was at the
+      marriage feast in Cana,<br /> when he said to her: "Woman, what have I to
+      do<br /> "with thee?" And the third time was at the cross,<br /> when
+      "Jesus, seeing his mother standing by the<br /> "disciple whom he loved,
+      said to her: Woman, be-<br /> "hold thy son;" and to the disciple: "Behold
+      thy<br /> "mother." And this is all.<br /> <br /> The best thing about the
+      Catholic Church is<br /> the deification of Mary,&mdash;and yet this is
+      denounced<br /> by Protestantism as idolatry. There is something<br /> in
+      the human heart that prompts man to tell his faults<br /> more freely to
+      the mother than to the father. The<br /> cruelty of Jehovah is softened by
+      the mercy of<br /> Mary.<br /> <br /> Is it not strange that none of the
+      disciples of Christ<br /> <br /> 123<br /> <br /> said anything about their
+      parents,&mdash;that we know<br /> absolutely nothing of them? Is there any
+      evidence<br /> that they showed any particular respect even for the<br />
+      mother of Christ?<br /> <br /> Mary Magdalen is, in many respects, the
+      tenderest<br /> and most loving character in the New Testament.<br />
+      According to the account, her love for Christ knew<br /> no abatement,&mdash;no
+      change&mdash;true even in the hopeless<br /> shadow of the cross. Neither
+      did it die with his<br /> death. She waited at the sepulchre; she hasted in<br />
+      the early morning to his tomb, and yet the only<br /> comfort Christ gave
+      to this true and loving soul lies<br /> in these strangely cold and
+      heartless words: "Touch<br /> "me not."<br /> <br /> There is nothing tending
+      to show that the women<br /> spoken of in the Bible were superior to the
+      ones we<br /> know. There are to-day millions of women making<br /> coats
+      for their sons,&mdash;hundreds of thousands of<br /> women, true not simply
+      to innocent people, falsely<br /> accused, but to criminals. Many a loving
+      heart is<br /> as true to the gallows as Mary was to the cross.<br /> There
+      are hundreds of thousands of women accept-<br /> ing poverty and want and
+      dishonor, for the love they<br /> bear unworthy men; hundreds and
+      thousands, hun-<br /> dreds and thousands, working day and night, with<br />
+      <br /> 124<br /> <br /> strained eyes and tired hands, for husbands and<br />
+      children,&mdash;clothed in rags, housed in huts and hovels,<br /> hoping
+      day after day for the angel of death. There are<br /> thousands of women in
+      Christian England, working in<br /> iron, laboring in the fields and
+      toiling in mines. There<br /> are hundreds and thousands in Europe,
+      everywhere,<br /> doing the work of men&mdash;deformed by toil, and who<br />
+      would become simply wild and ferocious beasts,<br /> except for the love
+      they bear for home and child.<br /> <br /> You need not go back four
+      thousand years for<br /> heroines. The world is filled with them to-day.<br />
+      They do not belong to any nation, nor to any religion,<br /> nor
+      exclusively to any race. Wherever woman is<br /> found, they are found.<br />
+      <br /> There is no description of any women in the Bible<br /> that equal
+      thousands and thousands of women known<br /> to-day. The women mentioned by
+      Mr. Talmage fall<br /> almost infinitely below, not simply those in real
+      life, but<br /> the creations of the imagination found in the world of<br />
+      fiction. They will not compare with the women born<br /> of Shakespeare's
+      brain. You will find none like<br /> Isabella, in whose spotless life, love
+      and reason<br /> blended into perfect truth; nor Juliet, within whose<br />
+      heart passion and purity met, like white and red within<br /> the bosom of
+      a rose; nor Cordelia, who chose to<br /> <br /> 125<br /> <br /> suffer loss
+      rather than show her wealth of love with<br /> those who gilded dross with
+      golden words in hope<br /> of gain; nor Miranda, who told her love as
+      freely<br /> as a flower gives its bosom to the kisses of the sun;<br /> nor
+      Imogene, who asked: "What is it to be false?"<br /> nor Hermione, who bore
+      with perfect faith and hope<br /> the cross of shame, and who at last
+      forgave with all<br /> her heart; nor Desdemona, her innocence so perfect<br />
+      and her love so pure, that she was incapable of sus-<br /> pecting that
+      another could suspect, and sought with<br /> dying words to hide her
+      lover's crime.<br /> <br /> If we wish to find what the Bible thinks of<br />
+      woman, all that is necessary to do is to read it.<br /> We will find that
+      everywhere she is spoken of<br /> simply as property,&mdash;as belonging
+      absolutely to the<br /> man. We will find that whenever a man got tired<br />
+      of his wife, all he had to do was to give her a writing<br /> of
+      divorcement, and that then the mother of his<br /> children became a
+      houseless and a homeless wanderer.<br /> We will find that men were allowed
+      to have as<br /> many wives as they could get, either by courtship,<br />
+      purchase, or conquest. The Jewish people in the<br /> olden time were in
+      many respects like their barbarian<br /> neighbors.<br /> <br /> If we read
+      the New Testament, we will find in the<br /> <br /> 126<br /> <br /> epistle
+      of Paul to Timothy, the following gallant<br /> passages:<br /> <br /> "Let
+      the woman learn in silence, with all<br /> "subjection."<br /> <br /> "But I
+      suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp<br /> "authority over the man,
+      but to be in silence."<br /> <br /> And for these kind, gentle and civilized
+      remarks,<br /> the apostle Paul gives the following reasons:<br /> <br />
+      "For Adam was first formed, then Eve."<br /> <br /> "And Adam was not
+      deceived, but the woman<br /> "being deceived was in the transgression."<br />
+      <br /> Certainly women ought to feel under great obli-<br /> gation to the
+      apostle Paul.<br /> <br /> In the fifth chapter of the same epistle, Paul,<br />
+      advising Timothy as to what kind of people he<br /> should admit into his
+      society or church, uses the<br /> following language:<br /> <br /> "Let not a
+      widow be taken into the number under<br /> "threescore years old, having
+      been the wife of one<br /> "man."<br /> <br /> "But the younger widows
+      refuse, for when they<br /> "have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they
+      will<br /> "marry."<br /> <br /> This same Paul did not seem to think
+      polygamy<br /> wrong, except in a bishop. He tells Timothy that:<br /> <br />
+      127<br /> <br /> "A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one<br />
+      "wife."<br /> <br /> He also lays down the rule that a deacon should be<br />
+      the husband of one wife, leaving us to infer that the<br /> other members
+      might have as many as they could get.<br /> <br /> In the second epistle to
+      Timothy, Paul speaks of<br /> "grandmother Lois," who was referred to in
+      such<br /> extravagant language by Mr. Talmage, and nothing<br /> is said
+      touching her character in the least. All her<br /> virtues live in the
+      imagination, and in the imagina-<br /> tion alone.<br /> <br /> Paul, also,
+      in his epistle to the Ephesians, says:<br /> <br /> "Wives, submit
+      yourselves unto your own hus-<br /> "bands, as unto the Lord. For the
+      husband is the<br /> "head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the<br />
+      "church."<br /> <br /> "Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ,<br />
+      "so let the wives be to their own husbands, in<br /> "everything."<br />
+      <br /> You will find, too, that in the seventh chapter of<br /> First
+      Corinthians, Paul laments that all men are not<br /> bachelors like
+      himself, and in the second verse of<br /> that chapter he gives the only
+      reason for which he<br /> was willing that men and women should marry. He<br />
+      advised all the unmarried, and all widows, to remain<br /> <br /> 128<br />
+      <br /> as he was. In the ninth verse of this same chapter<br /> is a slander
+      too vulgar for repetition,&mdash;an estimate<br /> of woman and of woman's
+      love so low and vile, that<br /> every woman should hold the inspired
+      author in<br /> infinite abhorrence.<br /> <br /> Paul sums up the whole
+      matter, however, by telling<br /> those who have wives or husbands, to stay
+      with<br /> them&mdash;as necessary evils only to be tolerated&mdash;but<br />
+      sincerely regrets that anybody was ever married;<br /> and finally says
+      that:<br /> <br /> "They that have wives should be as though they<br /> "had
+      none;" because, in his opinion:<br /> <br /> "He that is unmarried careth
+      for the things that<br /> "belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord;<br />
+      "but he that is married careth for the things that are<br /> "of the world,
+      how he may please his wife."<br /> <br /> "There is this difference also,"
+      he tells us, "be-<br /> "tween a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman<br />
+      "careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be<br /> "holy both in
+      body and in spirit; but she that is<br /> "married careth for the things of
+      the world, how she<br /> " may please her husband."<br /> <br /> Of course,
+      it is contended that these things have<br /> tended to the elevation of
+      woman.<br /> <br /> The idea that it is better to love the Lord than to<br />
+      <br /> 129<br /> <br /> love your wife, or your husband, is infinitely
+      absurd.<br /> Nobody ever did love the Lord,&mdash;nobody can&mdash;until<br />
+      he becomes acquainted with him.<br /> <br /> Saint Paul also tells us that
+      "Man is the image<br /> "and glory of God; but woman is the glory of<br />
+      "man;" and for the purpose of sustaining this posi-<br /> tion, says:<br />
+      <br /> "For the man is not of the woman, but the woman<br /> "of the man;
+      neither was the man created for the<br /> "woman, but the woman for the
+      man."<br /> <br /> Of course, we can all see that man could have<br /> gotten
+      along well enough without woman, but woman,<br /> by no possibility, could
+      have gotten along without<br /> man. And yet, this is called "inspired;"
+      and this<br /> apostle Paul is supposed to have known more than<br /> all
+      the people now upon the earth. No wonder Paul<br /> at last was constrained
+      to say: "We are fools for<br /> "Christ's sake."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How do you account for the present<br /> condition of woman in what is
+      known as "the civilized<br /> "world," unless the Bible has bettered her
+      condition?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. We must remember that thousands of<br />
+      things enter into the problem of civilization. Soil,<br /> climate, and
+      geographical position, united with count-<br /> <br /> 130<br /> <br /> less
+      other influences, have resulted in the civilization<br /> of our time. If
+      we want to find what the influence of<br /> the Bible has been, we must
+      ascertain the condition<br /> of Europe when the Bible was considered as
+      abso-<br /> lutely true, and when it wielded its greatest influence.<br />
+      <br /> Christianity as a form of religion had actual posses-<br /> sion of
+      Europe during the Middle Ages. At that<br /> time, it exerted its greatest
+      power. Then it had the<br /> opportunity of breaking the shackles from the
+      limbs<br /> of woman. Christianity found the Roman matron a<br /> free
+      woman. Polygamy was never known in Rome;<br /> and although divorces were
+      allowed by law, the<br /> Roman state had been founded for more than five<br />
+      hundred years before either a husband or a wife<br /> asked for a divorce.
+      From the foundation of Chris-<br /> tianity,&mdash;I mean from the time it
+      became the force in<br /> the Roman state,&mdash;woman, as such, went down
+      in<br /> the scale of civilization. The sceptre was taken from<br /> her
+      hands, and she became once more the slave and<br /> serf of man. The men
+      also were made slaves, and<br /> woman has regained her liberty by the same
+      means<br /> that man has regained his,&mdash;by wresting authority<br />
+      from the hands of the church. While the church had<br /> power, the wife
+      and mother was not considered as<br /> good as the begging nun; the husband
+      and father<br /> was far below the vermin-covered monk; homes<br /> were of
+      no value compared with the cathedral; for<br /> God had to have a house, no
+      matter how many of<br /> his children were wanderers. During all the years
+      in<br /> which woman has struggled for equal liberty with<br /> man, she has
+      been met with the Bible doctrine that<br /> she is the inferior of the man;
+      that Adam was made<br /> first, and Eve afterwards; that man was not made
+      for<br /> woman, but that woman was made for man.<br /> <br /> I find that in
+      this day and generation, the meanest<br /> men have the lowest estimate of
+      woman; that the<br /> greater the man is, the grander he is, the more he<br />
+      thinks of mother, wife and daughter. I also find that<br /> just in the
+      proportion that he has lost confidence in the<br /> polygamy of Jehovah and
+      in the advice and philosophy<br /> of Saint Paul, he believes in the rights
+      and liberties of<br /> woman. As a matter of fact, men have risen from a<br />
+      perusal of the Bible, and murdered their wives. They<br /> have risen from
+      reading its pages, and inflicted cruel<br /> and even mortal blows upon
+      their children. Men<br /> have risen from reading the Bible and torn the
+      flesh<br /> of others with red-hot pincers. They have laid<br /> down the
+      sacred volume long enough to pour molten<br /> lead into the ears of
+      others. They have stopped<br /> reading the sacred Scriptures for a
+      sufficient time to<br /> <br /> 132<br /> <br /> incarcerate their fellow-men,
+      to load them with chains,<br /> and then they have gone back to their
+      reading,<br /> allowing their victims to die in darkness and despair.<br />
+      Men have stopped reading the Old Testament long<br /> enough to drive a
+      stake into the ground and collect a<br /> few fagots and burn an honest
+      man. Even ministers<br /> have denied themselves the privilege of reading
+      the<br /> sacred book long enough to tell falsehoods about<br /> their
+      fellow-men. There is no crime that Bible<br /> readers and Bible believers
+      and Bible worshipers and<br /> Bible defenders have not committed. There is
+      no<br /> meanness of which some Bible reader, believer, and<br /> defender,
+      has not been guilty. Bible believers and<br /> Bible defenders have filled
+      the world with calumnies<br /> and slanders. Bible believers and Bible
+      defenders<br /> have not only whipped their wives, but they have<br />
+      murdered them; they have murdered their children.<br /> I do not say that
+      reading the Bible will necessarily<br /> make men dishonest, but I do say,
+      that reading the<br /> Bible will not prevent their committing crimes. I do<br />
+      not say that believing the Bible will necessarily make<br /> men commit
+      burglary, but I do say that a belief in the<br /> Bible has caused men to
+      persecute each other, to<br /> imprison each other, and to burn each other.<br />
+      <br /> Only a little while ago, a British clergyman mur-<br /> <br /> 133<br />
+      <br /> dered his wife. Only a little while ago, an American<br /> Protestant
+      clergyman whipped his boy to death be-<br /> cause the boy refused to say a
+      prayer.<br /> <br /> The Rev. Mr. Crowley not only believed the Bible,<br />
+      but was licensed to expound it. He had been<br /> "called" to the ministry,
+      and upon his head had<br /> been laid the holy hands; and yet, he
+      deliberately<br /> starved orphans, and while looking upon their<br />
+      sunken eyes and hollow cheeks, sung pious hymns<br /> and quoted with great
+      unction: "Suffer little chil-<br /> "dren to come unto me."<br /> <br /> As a
+      matter of fact, in the last twenty years,<br /> more money has been stolen
+      by Christian cashiers,<br /> Christian presidents, Christian directors,
+      Christian<br /> trustees and Christian statesmen, than by all other<br />
+      convicts in all the penitentiaries in all the Christian<br /> world.<br />
+      <br /> The assassin of Henry the Fourth was a Bible reader<br /> and a Bible
+      believer. The instigators of the massacre<br /> of St. Bartholomew were
+      believers in your sacred<br /> Scriptures. The men who invested their money
+      in the<br /> slave-trade believed themselves filled with the Holy<br />
+      Ghost, and read with rapture the Psalms of David and<br /> the Sermon on
+      the Mount. The murderers of Scotch<br /> Presbyterians were believers in
+      Revelation, and the<br /> <br /> 134<br /> Presbyterians, when they murdered
+      others, were also<br /> believers. Nearly every man who expiates a crime<br />
+      upon the gallows is a believer in the Bible. For a<br /> thousand years,
+      the daggers of assassination and the<br /> swords of war were blest by
+      priests&mdash;by the believers<br /> in the sacred Scriptures. The assassin
+      of President<br /> Garfield is a believer in the Bible, a hater of
+      infidelity,<br /> a believer in personal inspiration, and he expects in a<br />
+      few weeks to join the winged and redeemed in<br /> heaven.<br /> <br /> If a
+      man would follow, to-day, the teachings of the<br /> Old Testament, he
+      would be a criminal. If he would<br /> follow strictly the teachings of the
+      New, he would be<br /> insane.<br /> <br /> <br /> <a name="link0006"
+      id="link0006"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>FOURTH INTERVIEW.</b></big><br />
+      <br /> <br /> <i>Son. There is no devil.<br /> <br /> Mother. I know there is.<br />
+      <br /> Son. How do you know?<br /> <br /> Mother. Because they make pictures
+      that look just<br /> like him.<br /> <br /> Son. But, mother&mdash;<br />
+      <br /> Mother. Don't "mother" me! You are trying to<br /> disgrace your
+      parents.</i><br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. I want to ask you a few questions
+      about<br /> Mr. Talmage's fourth sermon against you, entitled:<br /> "The
+      Meanness of Infidelity," in which he compares<br /> you to Jehoiakim, who
+      had the temerity to throw<br /> some of the writings of the weeping
+      Jeremiah into<br /> the fire?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. So far as I am
+      concerned, I really re-<br /> gret that a second edition of Jeremiah's roll
+      was<br /> gotten out. It would have been far better for us all,<br /> if it
+      had been left in ashes. There was nothing but<br /> curses and prophecies
+      of evil, in the sacred roll that<br /> <br /> 138<br /> <br /> Jehoiakim
+      burned. The Bible tells us that Jehovah<br /> became exceedingly wroth
+      because of the destruction<br /> of this roll, and pronounced a curse upon
+      Jehoiakim<br /> and upon Palestine. I presume it was on account of<br /> the
+      burning of that roll that the king of Babylon<br /> destroyed the chosen
+      people of God. It was on<br /> account of that sacrilege that the Lord said
+      of<br /> Jehoiakim: "He shall have none to sit upon the<br /> "throne of
+      David; and his dead body shall be cast<br /> "out in the day to the heat,
+      and in the night to the<br /> "frost." Any one can see how much a dead body<br />
+      would suffer under such circumstances. Imagine an<br /> infinitely wise,
+      good and powerful God taking ven-<br /> geance on the corpse of a barbarian
+      king! What<br /> joy there must have been in heaven as the angels<br />
+      watched the alternate melting and freezing of the<br /> dead body of
+      Jehoiakim!<br /> <br /> Jeremiah was probably the most accomplished<br />
+      croaker of all time. Nothing satisfied him. He was<br /> a prophetic
+      pessimist,&mdash;an ancient Bourbon. He<br /> was only happy when
+      predicting war, pestilence and<br /> famine. No wonder Jehoiakim despised
+      him, and<br /> hated all he wrote.<br /> <br /> One can easily see the
+      character of Jeremiah from<br /> the following occurrence: When the
+      Babylonians<br /> <br /> 139<br /> <br /> had succeeded in taking Jerusalem,
+      and in sacking<br /> the city, Jeremiah was unfortunately taken prisoner;<br />
+      but Captain Nebuzaradan came to Jeremiah, and told<br /> him that he would
+      let him go, because he had pro-<br /> phesied against his own country. He
+      was regarded<br /> as a friend by the enemy.<br /> <br /> There was, at that
+      time, as now, the old fight<br /> between the church and the civil power.
+      Whenever<br /> a king failed to do what the priests wanted, they<br />
+      immediately prophesied overthrow, disaster, and de-<br /> feat. Whenever
+      the kings would hearken to their<br /> voice, and would see to it that the
+      priests had plenty<br /> to eat and drink and wear, then they all declared<br />
+      that Jehovah would love that king, would let him live<br /> out all his
+      days, and allow his son to reign in his<br /> stead. It was simply the old
+      conflict that is still being<br /> waged, and it will be carried on until
+      universal civil-<br /> ization does away with priestcraft and superstition.<br />
+      <br /> The priests in the days of Jeremiah were the same<br /> as now. They
+      sought to rule the State. They pre-<br /> tended that, at their request,
+      Jehovah would withhold<br /> or send the rain; that the seasons were within
+      their<br /> power; that they with bitter words could blight the<br /> fields
+      and curse the land with want and death. They<br /> gloried then, as now, in
+      the exhibition of God's wrath.<br /> <br /> 140<br /> <br /> In prosperity,
+      the priests were forgotten. Success<br /> scorned them; Famine flattered
+      them; Health laughed<br /> at them; Pestilence prayed to them; Disaster was<br />
+      their only friend.<br /> <br /> These old prophets prophesied nothing but
+      evil,<br /> and consequently, when anything bad happened, they<br /> claimed
+      it as a fulfillment, and pointed with pride to<br /> the fact that they
+      had, weeks or months, or years<br /> before, foretold something of that
+      kind. They were<br /> really the originators of the phrase, "I told you
+      so!"<br /> <br /> There was a good old Methodist class-leader that<br />
+      lived down near a place called Liverpool, on the<br /> Illinois river. In
+      the spring of 1861 the old man,<br /> telling his experience, among other
+      things said, that he<br /> had lived there by the river for more than
+      thirty<br /> years, and he did not believe that a year had passed<br /> that
+      there were not hundreds of people during the<br /> hunting season shooting
+      ducks on Sunday; that he<br /> had told his wife thousands of times that no
+      good<br /> would come of it; that evil would come of it; "And<br /> "now,
+      said the old man, raising his voice with the<br /> importance of the
+      announcement, "war is upon us!"<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you wish,
+      as Mr. Talmage says, to de-<br /> stroy the Bible&mdash;to have all the
+      copies burned to ashes?<br /> What do you wish to have done with the Bible?<br />
+      <br /> 141<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I want the Bible treated exactly as we<br />
+      treat other books&mdash;preserve the good and throw<br /> away the foolish
+      and the hurtful. I am fighting the<br /> doctrine of inspiration. As long
+      as it is believed that<br /> the Bible is inspired, that book is the master&mdash;no<br />
+      mind is free. With that belief, intellectual liberty is<br /> impossible.
+      With that belief, you can investigate<br /> only at the risk of losing your
+      soul. The Catholics<br /> have a pope. Protestants laugh at them, and yet
+      the<br /> pope is capable of intellectual advancement. In<br /> addition to
+      this, the pope is mortal, and the church<br /> cannot be afflicted with the
+      same idiot forever. The<br /> Protestants have a book for their pope. The
+      book<br /> cannot advance. Year after year, and century after<br /> century,
+      the book remains as ignorant as ever. It is<br /> only made better by those
+      who believe in its inspira-<br /> tion giving better meanings to the words
+      than their<br /> ancestors did. In this way it may be said that the<br />
+      Bible grows a little better.<br /> <br /> Why should we have a book for a
+      master? That<br /> which otherwise might be a blessing, remains a curse.<br />
+      If every copy of the Bible were destroyed, all that is<br /> good in that
+      book would be reproduced in a single<br /> day. Leave every copy of the
+      Bible as it is, and<br /> have every human being believe in its
+      inspiration,<br /> <br /> 142<br /> <br /> and intellectual liberty would
+      cease to exist. The<br /> whole race, from that moment, would go back to-<br />
+      ward the night of intellectual death.<br /> <br /> The Bible would do more
+      harm if more people<br /> really believed it, and acted in accordance with
+      its<br /> teachings. Now and then a Freeman puts the knife<br /> to the
+      heart of his child. Now and then an assassin<br /> relies upon some sacred
+      passage; but, as a rule, few<br /> men believe the Bible to be absolutely
+      true.<br /> <br /> There are about fifteen hundred million people in<br />
+      the world. There are not two million who have read<br /> the Bible through.
+      There are not two hundred<br /> million who ever saw the Bible. There are
+      not five<br /> hundred million who ever heard that such a book<br /> exists.<br />
+      <br /> Christianity is claimed to be a religion for all<br /> mankind. It
+      was founded more than eighteen cen-<br /> turies ago; and yet, not one
+      human being in three<br /> has ever heard of it. As a matter of fact, for
+      more<br /> than fourteen centuries and-a-half after the crucifixion<br /> of
+      Christ, this hemisphere was absolutely unknown.<br /> There was not a
+      Christian in the world who knew<br /> there was such a continent as ours,
+      and all the<br /> inhabitants of this, the New World, were deprived<br /> of
+      the gospel for fourteen centuries and-a-half, and<br /> <br /> 143<br />
+      <br /> knew nothing of its blessings until they were in-<br /> formed by
+      Spanish murderers and marauders. Even<br /> in the United States,
+      Christianity is not keeping pace<br /> with the increase of population.
+      When we take<br /> into consideration that it is aided by the momentum<br />
+      of eighteen centuries, is it not wonderful that it is not<br /> to-day
+      holding its own? The reason of this is, that<br /> we are beginning to
+      understand the Scriptures. We<br /> are beginningto see, and to see
+      clearly, that they are<br /> simply of human origin, and that the Bible
+      bears<br /> the marks of the barbarians who wrote it. The best<br />
+      educated among the clergy admit that we know but<br /> little as to the
+      origin of the gospels; that we do not<br /> positively know the author of
+      one of them; that it is<br /> really a matter of doubt as to who wrote the
+      five<br /> books attributed to Moses. They admit now, that<br /> Isaiah was
+      written by more than one person; that<br /> Solomon's Song was not written
+      by that king; that<br /> Job is, in all probability, not a Jewish book;
+      that<br /> Ecclesiastes must have been written by a Freethinker,<br /> and
+      by one who had his doubts about the immortality<br /> of the soul. The best
+      biblical students of the so-<br /> called orthodox world now admit that
+      several stories<br /> were united to make the gospel of Saint Luke; that<br />
+      Hebrews is a selection from many fragments, and<br /> <br /> 144<br /> <br />
+      that no human being, not afflicted with delirium<br /> tremens, can
+      understand the book of Revelation.<br /> <br /> I am not the only one
+      engaged in the work of<br /> destruction. Every Protestant who expresses a
+      doubt<br /> as to the genuineness of a passage, is destroying the<br />
+      Bible. The gentlemen who have endeavored to treat<br /> hell as a question
+      of syntax, and to prove that eternal<br /> punishment depends upon grammar,
+      are helping to<br /> bring the Scriptures into contempt. Hundreds of<br />
+      years ago, the Catholics told the Protestant world that<br /> it was
+      dangerous to give the Bible to the people.<br /> The Catholics were right;
+      the Protestants were<br /> wrong. To read is to think. To think is to
+      investi-<br /> gate. To investigate is, finally, to deny. That book<br />
+      should have been read only by priests. Every copy<br /> should have been
+      under the lock and key of bishop,<br /> cardinal and pope. The common
+      people should have<br /> received the Bible from the lips of the ministers.<br />
+      The world should have been kept in ignorance. In<br /> that way, and in
+      that way only, could the pulpit have<br /> maintained its power. He who
+      teaches a child<br /> the alphabet sows the seeds of heresy. I have lived<br />
+      to see the schoolhouse in many a village larger than<br /> the church.
+      Every man who finds a fact, is the<br /> enemy of theology. Every man who
+      expresses an<br /> <br /> 145<br /> <br /> honest thought is a soldier in the
+      army of intellectual<br /> liberty.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage
+      thinks that you laugh too<br /> much,&mdash;that you exhibit too much
+      mirth, and that no<br /> one should smile at sacred things?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      The church has always feared ridicule.<br /> The minister despises
+      laughter. He who builds upon<br /> ignorance and awe, fears intelligence
+      and mirth. The<br /> theologians always begin by saying: "Let us be<br />
+      "solemn." They know that credulity and awe are<br /> twins. They also know
+      that while Reason is the<br /> pilot of the soul, Humor carries the lamp.
+      Whoever<br /> has the sense of humor fully developed, cannot, by<br /> any
+      possibility, be an orthodox theologian. He would<br /> be his own laughing
+      stock. The most absurd stories,<br /> the most laughable miracles, read in
+      a solemn, stately<br /> way, sound to the ears of ignorance and awe like<br />
+      truth. It has been the object of the church for<br /> eighteen hundred
+      years to prevent laughter.<br /> <br /> A smile is the dawn of a doubt.<br />
+      <br /> Ministers are always talking about death, and<br /> coffins, and
+      dust, and worms,&mdash;the cross in this life,<br /> and the fires of
+      another. They have been the<br /> enemies of human happiness. They hate to
+      hear<br /> <br /> 146<br /> <br /> even the laughter of children. There seems
+      to have<br /> been a bond of sympathy between divinity and<br /> dyspepsia,
+      between theology and indigestion. There<br /> is a certain pious hatred of
+      pleasure, and those who<br /> have been "born again" are expected to
+      despise<br /> "the transitory joys of this fleeting life." In this,<br />
+      they follow the example of their prophets, of whom<br /> they proudly say:
+      "They never smiled."<br /> <br /> Whoever laughs at a holy falsehood, is
+      called a<br /> "scoffer." Whoever gives vent to his natural feel-<br /> ings
+      is regarded as a "blasphemer," and whoever<br /> examines the Bible as he
+      examines other books, and<br /> relies upon his reason to interpret it, is
+      denounced<br /> as a "reprobate."<br /> <br /> Let us respect the truth, let
+      us laugh at miracles,<br /> and above all, let us be candid with each
+      other.<br /> <br /> 'Question. Mr. Talmage charges that you have, in<br />
+      your lectures, satirized your early home; that you<br /> have described
+      with bitterness the Sundays that were<br /> forced upon you in your youth;
+      and that in various<br /> ways you have denounced your father as a
+      "tyrant,"<br /> or a "bigot," or a "fool"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I have
+      described the manner in which<br /> Sunday was kept when I was a boy. My
+      father for<br /> <br /> 147<br /> <br /> many years regarded the Sabbath as a
+      sacred day.<br /> We kept Sunday as most other Christians did. I think<br />
+      that my father made a mistake about that day. I<br /> have no doubt he was
+      honest about it, and really<br /> believed that it was pleasing to God for
+      him to keep<br /> the Sabbath as he did.<br /> <br /> I think that Sunday
+      should not be a day of gloom,<br /> of silence and despair, or a day in
+      which to hear that<br /> the chances are largely in favor of your being
+      eternally<br /> damned. That day, in my opinion, should be one of<br /> joy;
+      a day to get acquainted with your wife and<br /> children; a day to visit
+      the woods, or the sea, or the<br /> murmuring stream; a day to gather
+      flowers, to visit<br /> the graves of your dead, to read old poems, old<br />
+      letters, old books; a day to rekindle the fires of<br /> friendship and
+      love.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage says that my father was a Christian,<br /> and
+      he then proceeds to malign his memory. It<br /> seems to me that a living
+      Christian should at least<br /> tell the truth about one who sleeps the
+      silent sleep<br /> of death.<br /> <br /> I have said nothing, in any of my
+      lectures, about<br /> my father, or about my mother, or about any of my<br />
+      relatives. I have not the egotism to bring them<br /> forward. They have
+      nothing to do with the subject<br /> <br /> 148<br /> <br /> in hand. That my
+      father was mistaken upon the<br /> subject of religion, I have no doubt. He
+      was a good,<br /> a brave and honest man. I loved him living, and<br /> I
+      love him dead. I never said to him an unkind<br /> word, and in my heart
+      there never was of him an<br /> unkind thought. He was grand enough to say
+      to<br /> me, that I had the same right to my opinion that he<br /> had to
+      his. He was great enough to tell me to read<br /> the Bible for myself, to
+      be honest with myself, and if<br /> after reading it I concluded it was not
+      the word of<br /> God, that it was my duty to say so.<br /> <br /> My mother
+      died when I was but a child; and from<br /> that day&mdash;the darkest of
+      my life&mdash;her memory has<br /> been within my heart a sacred thing, and
+      I have felt,<br /> through all these years, her kisses on my lips.<br />
+      <br /> I know that my parents&mdash;if they are conscious now<br /> &mdash;do
+      not wish me to honor them at the expense of<br /> my manhood. I know that
+      neither my father nor my<br /> mother would have me sacrifice upon their
+      graves my<br /> honest thought. I know that I can only please them by<br />
+      being true to myself, by defending what I believe is<br /> good, by
+      attacking what I believe is bad. Yet this min-<br /> ister of Christ is
+      cruel enough, and malicious enough,<br /> to attack the reputation of the
+      dead. What he says<br /> about my father is utterly and unqualifiedly
+      false.<br /> <br /> 149<br /> <br /> Right here, it may be well enough for me
+      to say,<br /> that long before my father died, he threw aside, as<br />
+      unworthy of a place in the mind of an intelligent<br /> man, the infamous
+      dogma of eternal fire; that he<br /> regarded with abhorrence many passages
+      in the Old<br /> Testament; that he believed man, in another world,<br />
+      would have the eternal opportunity of doing right,<br /> and that the pity
+      of God would last as long as the<br /> suffering of man. My father and my
+      mother were<br /> good, in spite of the Old Testament. They were mer-<br />
+      ciful, in spite of the one frightful doctrine in the New.<br /> They did
+      not need the religion of Presbyterianism.<br /> Presbyterianism never made
+      a human being better.<br /> If there is anything that will freeze the
+      generous<br /> current of the soul, it is Calvinism. If there is any<br />
+      creed that will destroy charity, that will keep the<br /> tears of pity
+      from the cheeks of men and women, it<br /> is Presbyterianism. If there is
+      any doctrine calcu-<br /> lated to make man bigoted, unsympathetic, and<br />
+      cruel, it is the doctrine of predestination. Neither<br /> my father, nor
+      my mother, believed in the damnation<br /> of babes, nor in the inspiration
+      of John Calvin.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage professes to be a Christian. What<br />
+      effect has the religion of Jesus Christ had upon him?<br /> Is he the
+      product&mdash;the natural product&mdash;of Chris-<br /> <br /> 150<br />
+      <br /> tianity? Does the real Christian violate the sanctity<br /> of death?
+      Does the real Christian malign the<br /> memory of the dead? Does the good
+      Christian<br /> defame unanswering and unresisting dust?<br /> <br /> But why
+      should I expect kindness from a Chris-<br /> tian? Can a minister be
+      expected to treat with<br /> fairness a man whom his God intends to damn?
+      If<br /> a good God is going to burn an infidel forever, in<br /> the world
+      to come, surely a Christian should have<br /> the right to persecute him a
+      little here.<br /> <br /> What right has a Christian to ask anybody to love<br />
+      his father, or mother, or wife, or child? According<br /> to the gospels,
+      Christ offered a reward to any one<br /> who would desert his father or his
+      mother. He<br /> offered a premium to gentlemen for leaving their<br />
+      wives, and tried to bribe people to abandon their<br /> little children. He
+      offered them happiness in this<br /> world, and a hundred fold in the next,
+      if they would<br /> turn a deaf ear to the supplications of a father, the<br />
+      beseeching cry of a wife, and would leave the out-<br /> stretched arms of
+      babes. They were not even<br /> allowed to bury their fathers and their
+      mothers. At<br /> that time they were expected to prefer Jesus to their<br />
+      wives and children. And now an orthodox minister<br /> says that a man
+      ought not to express his honest<br /> <br /> 151<br /> <br /> thoughts,
+      because they do not happen to be in accord<br /> with the belief of his
+      father or mother.<br /> <br /> Suppose Mr. Talmage should read the Bible
+      care-<br /> fully and without fear, and should come to the honest<br />
+      conclusion that it is not inspired, what course would<br /> he pursue for
+      the purpose of honoring his parents?<br /> Would he say, "I cannot tell the
+      truth, I must lie,<br /> "for the purpose of shedding a halo of glory
+      around<br /> "the memory of my mother"? Would he say: "Of<br /> "course, my
+      father and mother would a thousand<br /> "times rather have their son a
+      hypocritical Christian<br /> "than an honest, manly unbeliever"? This might<br />
+      please Mr. Talmage, and accord perfectly with his<br /> view, but I prefer
+      to say, that my father wished me to<br /> be an honest man. If he is in
+      "heaven" now, I am<br /> sure that he would rather hear me attack the<br />
+      "inspired" word of God, honestly and bravely, than<br /> to hear me, in the
+      solemn accents of hypocrisy, defend<br /> what I believe to be untrue.<br />
+      <br /> I may be mistaken in the estimate angels put upon<br /> human beings.
+      It may be that God likes a pretended<br /> follower better than an honest,
+      outspoken man&mdash;one<br /> who is an infidel simply because he does not
+      under-<br /> stand this God. But it seems to me, in my unregenerate<br />
+      condition, touched and tainted as I am by original sin,<br /> <br /> 152<br />
+      <br /> that a God of infinite power and wisdom ought to be<br /> able to
+      make a man brave enough to have an opinion<br /> of his own. I cannot
+      conceive of God taking any<br /> particular pride in any hypocrite he has
+      ever made.<br /> Whatever he may say through his ministers, or<br />
+      whatever the angels may repeat, a manly devil<br /> stands higher in my
+      estimation than an unmanly<br /> angel. I do not mean by this, that there
+      are any<br /> unmanly angels, neither do I pretend that there<br /> are any
+      manly devils. My meaning is this: If I have<br /> a Creator, I can only
+      honor him by being true to<br /> myself, and kind and just to my
+      fellow-men. If I wish<br /> to shed lustre upon my father and mother, I can<br />
+      only do so by being absolutely true to myself.<br /> Never will I lay the
+      wreath of hypocrisy upon the<br /> tombs of those I love.<br /> <br /> Mr.
+      Talmage takes the ground that we must defend<br /> the religious belief of
+      our parents. He seems to<br /> forget that all parents do not believe
+      exactly alike,<br /> and that everybody has at least two parents. Now,<br />
+      suppose that the father is an infidel, and the mother<br /> a Christian,
+      what must the son do? Must he "drive<br /> "the ploughshare of contempt
+      through the grave of<br /> "the father," for the purpose of honoring the
+      mother;<br /> or must he drive the ploughshare through the grave<br /> <br />
+      153<br /> <br /> of the mother to honor the father; or must he com-<br />
+      promise, and talk one way and believe another? If<br /> Mr. Talmage's
+      doctrine is correct, only persons who<br /> have no knowledge of their
+      parents can have liberty<br /> of opinion. Foundlings would be the only
+      free<br /> people. I do not suppose that Mr. Talmage would<br /> go so far
+      as to say that a child would be bound by<br /> the religion of the person
+      upon whose door-steps he<br /> was found. If he does not, then over every
+      foundling<br /> hospital should be these words: "Home of Intel-<br />
+      "lectual Liberty."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you suppose that we will
+      care<br /> nothing in the next world for those we loved in this?<br /> Is it
+      worse in a man than in an angel, to care nothing<br /> for his mother?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. According to Mr. Talmage, a man can<br /> be perfectly
+      happy in heaven, with his mother in hell.<br /> He will be so entranced
+      with the society of Christ,<br /> that he will not even inquire what has
+      become of his<br /> wife. The Holy Ghost will keep him in such a state<br />
+      of happy wonder, of ecstatic joy, that the names,<br /> even, of his
+      children will never invade his memory.<br /> It may be that I am lacking in
+      filial affection, but<br /> I would much rather be in hell, with my parents<br />
+      <br /> 154<br /> <br /> in heaven, than be in heaven with my parents in hell.<br />
+      I think a thousand times more of my parents than I<br /> do of Christ. They
+      knew me, they worked for me,<br /> they loved me, and I can imagine no
+      heaven, no<br /> state of perfect bliss for me, in which they have no<br />
+      share. If God hates me, because I love them,<br /> I cannot love him.<br />
+      <br /> I cannot truthfully say that I look forward with any<br /> great
+      degree of joy, to meeting with Haggai and<br /> Habakkuk; with Jeremiah,
+      Nehemiah, Obadiah,<br /> Zechariah or Zephaniah; with Ezekiel, Micah, or<br />
+      Malachi; or even with Jonah. From what little<br /> I have read of their
+      writings, I have not formed a<br /> very high opinion of the social
+      qualities of these<br /> gentlemen.<br /> <br /> I want to meet the persons I
+      have known; and if<br /> there is another life, I want to meet the really
+      and<br /> the truly great&mdash;men who have been broad enough to<br /> be
+      tender, and great enough to be kind.<br /> <br /> Because I differ with my
+      parents, because I am<br /> convinced that my father was wrong in some of<br />
+      his religious opinions, Mr. Talmage insists that I dis-<br /> grace my
+      parents. How did the Christian religion<br /> commence? Did not the first
+      disciples advocate<br /> theories that their parents denied? Were they<br />
+      <br /> 155<br /> <br /> not false,&mdash;in his sense of the word,&mdash;to
+      their<br /> fathers and mothers? How could there have been<br /> any
+      progress in this world, if children had not<br /> gone beyond their
+      parents? Do you consider that<br /> the inventor of a steel plow cast a
+      slur upon his<br /> father who scratched the ground with a wooden<br /> one?
+      I do not consider that an invention by the<br /> son is a slander upon the
+      father; I regard each<br /> invention simply as an improvement; and every<br />
+      father should be exceedingly proud of an ingenious<br /> son. If Mr.
+      Talmage has a son, it will be impossible<br /> for him to honor his father
+      except by differing with<br /> him.<br /> <br /> It is very strange that Mr.
+      Talmage, a believer in<br /> Christ, should object to any man for not
+      loving his<br /> mother and his father, when his Master, according<br /> to
+      the gospel of Saint Luke, says: "If any man<br /> "come to me, and hate not
+      his father, and mother,<br /> "and wife, and children, and brethren, and
+      sis-<br /> "ters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my<br />
+      "disciple."<br /> <br /> According to this, I have to make my choice be-<br />
+      tween my wife, my children, and Jesus Christ. I have<br /> concluded to
+      stand by my folks&mdash;both in this world,<br /> and in "the world to
+      come."<br /> <br /> 156<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage asks you
+      whether, in your<br /> judgment, the Bible was a good, or an evil, to your<br />
+      parents?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I think it was an evil. The worst thing<br />
+      about my father was his religion. He would have<br /> been far happier, in
+      my judgment, without it. I<br /> think I get more real joy out of life than
+      he did.<br /> He was a man of a very great and tender heart. He<br /> was
+      continually thinking&mdash;for many years of his<br /> life&mdash;of the
+      thousands and thousands going down to<br /> eternal fire. That doctrine
+      filled his days with<br /> gloom, and his eyes with tears. I think that my<br />
+      father and mother would have been far happier had<br /> they believed as I
+      do. How any one can get any<br /> joy out of the Christian religion is past
+      my compre-<br /> hension. If that religion is true, hundreds of mil-<br />
+      lions are now in hell, and thousands of millions yet<br /> unborn will be.
+      How such a fact can form any part<br /> of the "glad tidings of great joy,"
+      is amazing to me.<br /> It is impossible for me to love a being who would<br />
+      create countless millions for eternal pain. It is<br /> impossible for me
+      to worship the God of the Bible,<br /> or the God of Calvin, or the God of
+      the Westminster<br /> Catechism.<br /> <br /> 157<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      I see that Mr. Talmage challenges you<br /> to read the fourteenth chapter
+      of Saint John. Are<br /> you willing to accept the challenge; or have you<br />
+      ever read that chapter?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I do not claim to be
+      very courageous,<br /> but I have read that chapter, and am very glad that<br />
+      Mr. Talmage has called attention to it. According<br /> to the gospels,
+      Christ did many miracles. He healed<br /> the sick, gave sight to the
+      blind, made the lame<br /> walk, and raised the dead. In the fourteenth
+      chapter<br /> of Saint John, twelfth verse, I find the following:<br />
+      <br /> "Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that believeth<br /> "on me, the
+      works that I do shall he do also; and<br /> "greater works than these shall
+      he do, because I go<br /> "unto my Father."<br /> <br /> I am willing to
+      accept that as a true test of a<br /> believer. If Mr. Talmage really
+      believes in Jesus<br /> Christ, he ought to be able to do at least as great<br />
+      miracles as Christ is said to have done. Will Mr.<br /> Talmage have the
+      kindness to read the fourteenth<br /> chapter of John, and then give me
+      some proof, in<br /> accordance with that chapter, that he is a believer in<br />
+      Jesus Christ? Will he have the kindness to perform<br /> a miracle?&mdash;for
+      instance, produce a "local flood,"<br /> make a worm to smite a gourd, or
+      "prepare a fish"?<br /> <br /> 158<br /> <br /> Can he do anything of that
+      nature? Can he even<br /> cause a "vehement east wind"? What evidence,<br />
+      according to the Bible, can Mr. Talmage give of his<br /> belief? How does
+      he prove that he is a Christian?<br /> By hating infidels and maligning
+      Christians? Let<br /> Mr. Talmage furnish the evidence, according to the<br />
+      fourteenth chapter of Saint John, or forever after<br /> hold his peace.<br />
+      <br /> He has my thanks for calling my attention to the<br /> fourteenth
+      chapter of Saint John.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges
+      that you are at-<br /> tempting to destroy the "chief solace of the world,"<br />
+      without offering any substitute. How do you answer<br /> this?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. If he calls Christianity the "chief solace<br /> "of the
+      world," and if by Christianity he means that all<br /> who do not believe
+      in the inspiration of the Scrip-<br /> tures, and have no faith in Jesus
+      Christ, are to be<br /> eternally damned, then I admit that I am doing the<br />
+      best I can to take that "solace" from the human<br /> heart. I do not
+      believe that the Bible, when prop-<br /> erly understood, is, or ever has
+      been, a comfort to<br /> any human being. Surely, no good man can be<br />
+      comforted by reading a book in which he finds that<br /> <br /> 159<br />
+      <br /> a large majority of mankind have been sentenced to<br /> eternal
+      fire. In the doctrine of total depravity there<br /> is no "solace." In the
+      doctrine of "election" there can<br /> be no joy until the returns are in,
+      and a majority<br /> found for you.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage
+      says that you are taking<br /> away the world's medicines, and in place of
+      anaes-<br /> thetics, in place of laudanum drops, you read an<br /> essay to
+      the man in pain, on the absurdities of mor-<br /> phine and nervines in
+      general.<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is exactly the other way. I say, let<br />
+      us depend upon morphine, not upon prayer. Do<br /> not send for the
+      minister&mdash;take a little laudanum.<br /> Do not read your Bible,&mdash;chloroform
+      is better. Do<br /> not waste your time listening to meaningless ser-<br />
+      mons, but take real, genuine soporifics.<br /> <br /> I regard the
+      discoverer of ether as a benefactor.<br /> I look upon every great surgeon
+      as a blessing to<br /> mankind. I regard one doctor, skilled in his profes-<br />
+      sion, of more importance to the world than all the<br /> orthodox
+      ministers.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage should remember that for hundreds<br />
+      of years, the church fought, with all its power, the<br /> science of
+      medicine. Priests used to cure diseases<br /> <br /> 160<br /> <br /> by
+      selling little pieces of paper covered with cabalistic<br /> marks. They
+      filled their treasuries by the sale of<br /> holy water. They healed the
+      sick by relics&mdash;the teeth<br /> and ribs of saints, the finger-nails
+      of departed wor-<br /> thies, and the hair of glorified virgins. Infidelity<br />
+      said: "Send for the doctor." Theology said: "Stick<br /> "to the priest."
+      Infidelity,&mdash;that is to say, science,&mdash;<br /> said: "Vaccinate
+      him." The priest said: "Pray;&mdash;<br /> "I will sell you a charm." The
+      doctor was regarded<br /> as a man who was endeavoring to take from God his<br />
+      means of punishment. He was supposed to spike<br /> the artillery of
+      Jehovah, to wet the powder of the<br /> Almighty, and to steal the flint
+      from the musket of<br /> heavenly retribution.<br /> <br /> Infidelity has
+      never relied upon essays, it has<br /> never relied upon words, it has
+      never relied upon<br /> prayers, it has never relied upon angels or gods;
+      it<br /> has relied upon the honest efforts of men and women.<br /> It has
+      relied upon investigation, observation, experi-<br /> ence, and above all,
+      upon human reason.<br /> <br /> We, in America, know how much prayers are<br />
+      worth. We have lately seen millions of people upon<br /> their knees. What
+      was the result?<br /> <br /> In the olden times, when a plague made its ap-<br />
+      pearance, the people fell upon their knees and died.<br /> <br /> 161<br />
+      <br /> When pestilence came, they rushed to their ca-<br /> thedrals, they
+      implored their priests&mdash;and died. God<br /> had no pity upon his
+      ignorant children. At last,<br /> Science came to the rescue. Science,&mdash;not
+      in the<br /> attitude of prayer, with closed eyes, but in the atti-<br />
+      tude of investigation, with open eyes,&mdash;looked for and<br />
+      discovered some of the laws of health. Science<br /> found that cleanliness
+      was far better than godliness. It<br /> said: Do not spend your time in
+      praying;&mdash;clean your<br /> houses, clean your streets, clean
+      yourselves. This pest-<br /> ilence is not a punishment. Health is not
+      simply a favor<br /> of the gods. Health depends upon conditions, and<br />
+      when the conditions are violated, disease is inevitable,<br /> and no God
+      can save you. Health depends upon<br /> your surroundings, and when these
+      are favorable,<br /> the roses are in your cheeks.<br /> <br /> We find in
+      the Old Testament that God gave<br /> to Moses a thousand directions for
+      ascertaining<br /> the presence of leprosy. Yet it never occurred<br /> to
+      this God to tell Moses how to cure the disease.<br /> Within the lids of
+      the Old Testament, we have no<br /> information upon a subject of such
+      vital importance<br /> to mankind.<br /> <br /> It may, however, be claimed
+      by Mr. Talmage, that<br /> this statement is a little too broad, and I will
+      therefore<br /> <br /> 162<br /> <br /> give one recipe that I find in the
+      fourteenth chapter<br /> of Leviticus:<br /> <br /> "Then shall the priest
+      command to take for him<br /> " that is to be cleansed two birds alive and
+      clean, and<br /> "cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop; and the priest<br />
+      "shall command that one of the birds be killed in an<br /> "earthen vessel
+      over running water. As for the<br /> "living bird, he shall take it, and
+      the cedar wood,<br /> "and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them<br />
+      "and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was<br /> "killed over
+      the running water. And he shall<br /> "sprinkle upon him that is to be
+      cleansed from the<br /> "leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him
+      clean,<br /> "and shall let the living bird loose into the open<br />
+      "field."<br /> <br /> Prophets were predicting evil&mdash;filling the
+      country<br /> with their wails and cries, and yet it never occurred<br /> to
+      them to tell one solitary thing of the slightest<br /> importance to
+      mankind. Why did not these inspired<br /> men tell us how to cure some of
+      the diseases that<br /> have decimated the world? Instead of spending<br />
+      forty days and forty nights with Moses, telling him<br /> how to build a
+      large tent, and how to cut the gar-<br /> ments of priests, why did God not
+      give him a little<br /> useful information in respect to the laws of
+      health?<br /> <br /> 163<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage must remember that the
+      church has<br /> invented no anodynes, no anaesthetics, no medicines,<br />
+      and has affected no cures. The doctors have not<br /> been inspired. All
+      these useful things men have<br /> discovered for themselves, aided by no
+      prophet and<br /> by no divine Savior. Just to the extent that man<br /> has
+      depended upon the other world, he has failed to<br /> make the best of
+      this. Just in the proportion that he<br /> has depended on his own efforts,
+      he has advanced.<br /> The church has always said:<br /> <br /> "Consider the
+      lilies of the field; they toil not,<br /> "neither do they spin." "Take no
+      thought for the<br /> "morrow." Whereas, the real common sense of this<br />
+      world has said: "No matter whether lilies toil and<br /> spin, or not, if
+      you would succeed, you must work;<br /> you must take thought for the
+      morrow, you must<br /> look beyond the present day, you must provide for<br />
+      your wife and your children."<br /> <br /> What can I be expected to give as
+      a substitute for<br /> perdition? It is enough to show that it does not<br />
+      exist. What does a man want in place of a disease?<br /> Health. And what
+      is better calculated to increase<br /> the happiness of mankind than to
+      know that the<br /> doctrine of eternal pain is infinitely and absurdly<br />
+      false?<br /> <br /> 164<br /> <br /> Take theology from the world, and natural
+      Love<br /> remains, Science is still here, Music will not be lost,<br /> the
+      page of History will still be open, the walls of<br /> the world will still
+      be adorned with Art, and the<br /> niches rich with Sculpture.<br /> <br />
+      Take theology from the world, and we all shall<br /> have a common hope,&mdash;and
+      the fear of hell will be<br /> removed from every human heart.<br /> <br />
+      Take theology from the world, and millions of<br /> men will be compelled
+      to earn an honest living.<br /> Impudence will not tax credulity. The
+      vampire of<br /> hypocrisy will not suck the blood of honest toil.<br />
+      <br /> Take theology from the world, and the churches<br /> can be schools,
+      and the cathedrals universities.<br /> <br /> Take theology from the world,
+      and the money<br /> wasted on superstition will do away with want.<br />
+      <br /> Take theology from the world, and every brain<br /> will find itself
+      without a chain.<br /> <br /> There is a vast difference between what is
+      called<br /> infidelity and theology.<br /> <br /> Infidelity is honest. When
+      it reaches the confines<br /> of reason, it says: "I know no further."<br />
+      <br /> Infidelity does not palm its guess upon an ignorant<br /> world as a
+      demonstration.<br /> <br /> 165<br /> <br /> Infidelity proves nothing by
+      slander&mdash;establishes<br /> nothing by abuse.<br /> <br /> Infidelity has
+      nothing to hide. It has no "holy<br /> "of holies," except the abode of
+      truth. It has no<br /> curtain that the hand of investigation has not the<br />
+      right to draw aside. It lives in the cloudless light,<br /> in the very
+      noon, of human eyes.<br /> <br /> Infidelity has no bible to be blasphemed.
+      It does<br /> not cringe before an angry God.<br /> <br /> Infidelity says to
+      every man: Investigate for<br /> yourself. There is no punishment for
+      unbelief.<br /> <br /> Infidelity asks no protection from legislatures. It<br />
+      wants no man fined because he contradicts its doc-<br /> trines.<br /> <br />
+      Infidelity relies simply upon evidence&mdash;not evi-<br /> dence of the
+      dead, but of the living.<br /> <br /> Infidelity has no infallible pope. It
+      relies only<br /> upon infallible fact. It has no priest except the<br />
+      interpreter of Nature. The universe is its church.<br /> Its bible is
+      everything that is true. It implores every<br /> man to verify every word
+      for himself, and it implores<br /> him to say, if he does not believe it,
+      that he does<br /> not.<br /> <br /> Infidelity does not fear contradiction.
+      It is not<br /> afraid of being laughed at. It invites the scrutiny<br />
+      <br /> 166<br /> <br /> of all doubters, of all unbelievers. It does not rely<br />
+      upon awe, but upon reason. It says to the whole<br /> world: It is
+      dangerous not to think. It is dan-<br /> gerous not to be honest. It is
+      dangerous not to<br /> investigate. It is dangerous not to follow where<br />
+      your reason leads.<br /> <br /> Infidelity requires every man to judge for
+      himself.<br /> Infidelity preserves the manhood of man.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Mr. Talmage also says that you are<br /> trying to put out the light-houses
+      on the coast of the<br /> next world; that you are "about to leave
+      everybody<br /> "in darkness at the narrows of death"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      There can be no necessity for these<br /> light-houses, unless the God of
+      Mr. Talmage has<br /> planted rocks and reefs within that unknown sea.<br />
+      If there is no hell, there is no need of any light-<br /> house on the
+      shores of the next world; and only<br /> those are interested in keeping up
+      these pretended<br /> light-houses who are paid for trimming invisible<br />
+      wicks and supplying the lamps with allegorical oil.<br /> Mr. Talmage is
+      one of these light-house keepers,<br /> and he knows that if it is
+      ascertained that the coast<br /> is not dangerous, the light-house will be
+      abandoned,<br /> and the keeper will have to find employment else-<br />
+      <br /> 167<br /> <br /> where. As a matter of fact, every church is a use-<br />
+      less light-house. It warns us only against breakers<br /> that do not
+      exist. Whenever a mariner tells one of<br /> the keepers that there is no
+      danger, then all the<br /> keepers combine to destroy the reputation of
+      that<br /> mariner.<br /> <br /> No one has returned from the other world to
+      tell<br /> us whether they have light-houses on that shore or<br /> not; or
+      whether the light-houses on this shore&mdash;one<br /> of which Mr. Talmage
+      is tending&mdash;have ever sent a<br /> cheering ray across the sea.<br />
+      <br /> Nature has furnished every human being with<br /> a light more or
+      less brilliant, more or less powerful.<br /> That light is Reason; and he
+      who blows that light<br /> out, is in utter darkness. It has been the
+      business of<br /> the church for centuries to extinguish the lamp of the<br />
+      mind, and to convince the people that their own<br /> reason is utterly
+      unreliable. The church has asked<br /> all men to rely only upon the light
+      of the church.<br /> <br /> Every priest has been not only a light-house but<br />
+      a guide-board. He has threatened eternal damna-<br /> tion to all who
+      travel on some other road. These<br /> guide-boards have been toll-gates,
+      and the principal<br /> reason why the churches have wanted people to go<br />
+      their road is, that tolls might be collected. They<br /> <br /> 168<br />
+      <br /> have regarded unbelievers as the owners of turnpikes<br /> do people
+      who go 'cross lots. The toll-gate man<br /> always tells you that other
+      roads are dangerous&mdash;<br /> filled with quagmires and quicksands.<br />
+      <br /> Every church is a kind of insurance society, and<br /> proposes, for
+      a small premium, to keep you from<br /> eternal fire. Of course, the man
+      who tells you that<br /> there is to be no fire, interferes with the
+      business,<br /> and is denounced as a malicious meddler and blas-<br />
+      phemer. The fires of this world sustain the same<br /> relation to
+      insurance companies that the fires of the<br /> next do to the churches.<br />
+      <br /> Mr. Talmage also insists that I am breaking up the<br />
+      "life-boats." Why should a ship built by infinite<br /> wisdom, by an
+      infinite shipbuilder, carry life-boats?<br /> The reason we have life-boats
+      now is, that we are<br /> not entirely sure of the ship. We know that man<br />
+      has not yet found out how to make a ship that can<br /> certainly brave all
+      the dangers of the deep. For this<br /> reason we carry life-boats. But
+      infinite wisdom must<br /> surely build ships that do not need life-boats.
+      Is there<br /> to be a wreck at last? Is God's ship to go down in<br />
+      storm and darkness? Will it be necessary at last to<br /> forsake his ship
+      and depend upon life-boats?<br /> <br /> For my part, I do not wish to be
+      rescued by a life-<br /> <br /> 169<br /> <br /> boat. When the ship, bearing
+      the whole world, goes<br /> down, I am willing to go down with it&mdash;with
+      my<br /> wife, with my children, and with those I have loved.<br /> I will
+      not slip ashore in an orthodox canoe with<br /> somebody else's folks,&mdash;I
+      will stay with my own.<br /> <br /> What a picture is presented by the
+      church! A few<br /> in life's last storm are to be saved; and the saved,<br />
+      when they reach shore, are to look back with joy<br /> upon the great ship
+      going down to the eternal depths!<br /> This is what I call the unutterable
+      meanness of or-<br /> thodox Christianity.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage speaks of
+      the "meanness of in-<br /> "fidelity."<br /> <br /> The meanness of orthodox
+      Christianity permits the<br /> husband to be saved, and to be ineffably
+      happy, while<br /> the wife of his bosom is suffering the tortures of hell.<br />
+      <br /> The meanness of orthodox Christianity tells the<br /> boy that he can
+      go to heaven and have an eternity<br /> of bliss, and that this bliss will
+      not even be clouded<br /> by the fact that the mother who bore him writhes
+      in<br /> eternal pain.<br /> <br /> The meanness of orthodox Christianity
+      allows<br /> a soul to be so captivated with the companionship<br /> of
+      angels as to forget all the old loves and friend-<br /> ships of this
+      world.<br /> <br /> 170<br /> <br /> The meanness of orthodox Christianity,
+      its un-<br /> speakable selfishness, allows a soul in heaven to exult<br />
+      in the fact of its own salvation, and at the same time<br /> to care
+      nothing for the damnation of all the rest.<br /> <br /> The orthodox
+      Christian says that if he can only<br /> save his little soul, if he can
+      barely squeeze into<br /> heaven, if he can only get past Saint Peter's
+      gate,<br /> if he can by hook or crook climb up the opposite<br /> bank of
+      Jordan, if he can get a harp in his hand, it<br /> matters not to him what
+      becomes of brother or<br /> sister, father or mother, wife or child. He is
+      willing<br /> that they should burn if he can sing.<br /> <br /> Oh, the
+      unutterable meanness of orthodox Chris-<br /> tianity, the infinite
+      heartlessness of the orthodox<br /> angels, who with tearless eyes will
+      forever gaze upon<br /> the agonies of those who were once blood of their<br />
+      blood and flesh of their flesh!<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage describes a picture
+      of the scourging<br /> of Christ, painted by Rubens, and he tells us that<br />
+      he was so appalled by this picture&mdash;by the sight of<br /> the naked
+      back, swollen and bleeding&mdash;that he could<br /> not have lived had he
+      continued to look; yet this<br /> same man, who could not bear to gaze upon
+      a<br /> painted pain, expects to be perfectly happy in heaven,<br /> while
+      countiess billions of actual&mdash;not painted&mdash;men,<br /> <br /> 171<br />
+      <br /> women, and children writhe&mdash;not in a pictured flame,<br /> but
+      in the real and quenchless fires of hell.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr.
+      Talmage also claims that we are<br /> indebted to Christianity for schools,
+      colleges, univer-<br /> sities, hospitals and asylums?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      This shows that Mr. Talmage has not<br /> read the history of the world.
+      Long before Chris-<br /> tianity had a place, there were vast libraries.
+      There<br /> were thousands of schools before a Christian existed<br /> on
+      the earth. There were hundreds of hospitals<br /> before a line of the New
+      Testament was written.<br /> Hundreds of years before Christ, there were
+      hospitals<br /> in India,&mdash;not only for men, women and children, but<br />
+      even for beasts. There were hospitals in Egypt long<br /> before Moses was
+      born. They knew enough then<br /> to cure insanity with music. They
+      surrounded the<br /> insane with flowers, and treated them with kindness.<br />
+      <br /> The great libraries at Alexandria were not Chris-<br /> tian. The
+      most intellectual nation of the Middle<br /> Ages was not Christian. While
+      Christians were<br /> imprisoning people for saying that the earth is
+      round,<br /> the Moors in Spain were teaching geography with<br /> globes.
+      They had even calculated the circumference<br /> of the earth by the tides
+      of the Red Sea.<br /> <br /> Where did education come from? For a thousand<br />
+      <br /> 172<br /> <br /> years Christianity destroyed books and paintings and<br />
+      statues. For a thousand years Christianity was filled<br /> with hatred
+      toward every effort of the human mind.<br /> We got paper from the Moors.
+      Printing had been<br /> known thousands of years before, in China. A few<br />
+      manuscripts, containing a portion of the literature of<br /> Greece, a few
+      enriched with the best thoughts of<br /> the Roman world, had been
+      preserved from the<br /> general wreck and ruin wrought by Christian hate.<br />
+      These became the seeds of intellectual progress.<br /> For a thousand years
+      Christianity controlled Europe.<br /> The Mohammedans were far in advance
+      of the<br /> Christians with hospitals and asylums and institutions<br /> of
+      learning.<br /> <br /> Just in proportion that we have done away with<br />
+      what is known as orthodox Christianity, humanity<br /> has taken its place.
+      Humanity has built all the asy-<br /> lums, all the hospitals. Humanity,
+      not Christianity,<br /> has done these things. The people of this country<br />
+      are all willing to be taxed that the insane may be<br /> cared for, that
+      the sick, the helpless, and the desti-<br /> tute may be provided for, not
+      because they are<br /> Christians, but because they are humane; and they<br />
+      are not humane because they are Christians.<br /> <br /> The colleges of
+      this country have been poisoned by<br /> <br /> 173<br /> <br /> theology, and
+      their usefulness almost destroyed. Just<br /> in proportion that they have
+      gotten from ecclesiastical<br /> control, they have become a good. That
+      college, to-<br /> day, which has the most religion has the least true<br />
+      learning; and that college which is the nearest free,<br /> does the most
+      good. Colleges that pit Moses against<br /> modern geology, that undertake
+      to overthrow the<br /> Copernican system by appealing to Joshua, have<br />
+      done, and are doing, very little good in this world.<br /> <br /> Suppose
+      that in the first century Pagans had said<br /> to Christians: Where are
+      your hospitals, where are<br /> your asylums, where are your works of
+      charity, where<br /> are your colleges and universities?<br /> <br /> The
+      Christians undoubtedly would have replied:<br /> We have not been in power.
+      There are but few<br /> of us. We have been persecuted to that degree<br />
+      that it has been about as much as we could do to<br /> maintain ourselves.<br />
+      <br /> Reasonable Pagans would have regarded such an<br /> answer as
+      perfectly satisfactory. Yet that question<br /> could have been asked of
+      Christianity after it had<br /> held the reins of power for a thousand
+      years, and<br /> Christians would have been compelled to say: We<br /> have
+      no universities, we have no colleges, we have<br /> no real asylums.<br />
+      <br /> 174<br /> <br /> The Christian now asks of the atheist: Where<br /> is
+      your asylum, where is your hospital, where is your<br /> university? And
+      the atheist answers: There have<br /> been but few atheists. The world is
+      not yet suffi-<br /> ciently advanced to produce them. For hundreds<br />
+      and hundreds of years, the minds of men have been<br /> darkened by the
+      superstitions of Christianity. Priests<br /> have thundered against human
+      knowledge, have de-<br /> nounced human reason, and have done all within<br />
+      their power to prevent the real progress of mankind.<br /> <br /> You must
+      also remember that Christianity has<br /> made more lunatics than it ever
+      provided asylums<br /> for. Christianity has driven more men and women<br />
+      crazy than all other religions combined. Hundreds<br /> and thousands and
+      millions have lost their reason in<br /> contemplating the monstrous
+      falsehoods of Chris-<br /> tianity. Thousands of mothers, thinking of their<br />
+      sons in hell&mdash;thousands of fathers, believing their<br /> boys and
+      girls in perdition, have lost their reason.<br /> <br /> So, let it be
+      distinctly understood, that Christianity<br /> has made ten lunatics&mdash;twenty&mdash;one
+      hundred&mdash;<br /> where it has provided an asylum for one.<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Talmage also speaks of the hospitals. When<br /> we take into
+      consideration the wars that have been<br /> waged on account of religion,
+      the countless thou-<br /> <br /> 175<br /> <br /> sands who have been maimed
+      and wounded, through<br /> all the years, by wars produced by theology&mdash;then
+      I<br /> say that Christianity has not built hospitals enough<br /> to take
+      care of her own wounded&mdash;not enough to<br /> take care of one in a
+      hundred. Where Christianity<br /> has bound up the wounds of one, it has
+      pierced the<br /> bodies of a hundred others with sword and spear,<br />
+      with bayonet and ball. Where she has provided<br /> one bed in a hospital,
+      she has laid away a hundred<br /> bodies in bloody graves.<br /> <br /> Of
+      course I do not expect the church to do<br /> anything but beg. Churches
+      produce nothing. They<br /> are like the lilies of the field. "They toil
+      not, neither<br /> "do they spin, yet Solomon in all his glory was not<br />
+      "arrayed like most of them."<br /> <br /> The churches raise no corn nor
+      wheat. They<br /> simply collect tithes. They carry the alms' dish.<br />
+      They pass the plate. They take toll. Of course<br /> a mendicant is not
+      expected to produce anything.<br /> He does not support,&mdash;he is
+      supported. The church<br /> does not help. She receives, she devours, she<br />
+      consumes, and she produces only discord. She ex-<br /> changes mistakes for
+      provisions, faith for food,<br /> prayers for pence. The church is a
+      beggar. But we<br /> have this consolation: In this age of the world, this<br />
+      <br /> 176<br /> <br /> beggar is not on horseback, and even the walking is<br />
+      not good.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage says that infidels have<br />
+      done no good?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, let us see. In the first
+      place,<br /> what is an "infidel"? He is simply a man in advance<br /> of
+      his time. He is an intellectual pioneer. He is<br /> the dawn of a new day.
+      He is a gentleman with an<br /> idea of his own, for which he gave no
+      receipt to the<br /> church. He is a man who has not been branded as<br />
+      the property of some one else. An "infidel" is one<br /> who has made a
+      declaration of independence. In<br /> other words, he is a man who has had
+      a doubt. To<br /> have a doubt means that you have thought upon<br /> the
+      subject&mdash;that you have investigated the question;<br /> and he who
+      investigates any religion will doubt.<br /> <br /> All the advance that has
+      been made in the religious<br /> world has been made by "infidels," by
+      "heretics,"<br /> by "skeptics," by doubters,&mdash;that is to say, by<br />
+      thoughtful men. The doubt does not come from the<br /> ignorant members of
+      your congregations. Heresy is<br /> not born of stupidity,&mdash;it is not
+      the child of the brain-<br /> less. He who is so afraid of hurting the
+      reputation<br /> of his father and mother that he refuses to advance,<br />
+      <br /> 177<br /> <br /> is not a "heretic." The "heretic" is not true to<br />
+      falsehood. Orthodoxy is. He who stands faithfully<br /> by a mistake is
+      "orthodox." He who, discovering<br /> that it is a mistake, has the courage
+      to say so, is an<br /> "infidel."<br /> <br /> An infidel is an intellectual
+      discoverer&mdash;one who<br /> finds new isles, new continents, in the vast
+      realm of<br /> thought. The dwellers on the orthodox shore de-<br /> nounce
+      this brave sailor of the seas as a buccaneer.<br /> <br /> And yet we are
+      told that the thinkers of new<br /> thoughts have never been of value to
+      the world.<br /> Voltaire did more for human liberty than all the<br />
+      orthodox ministers living and dead. He broke a<br /> thousand times more
+      chains than Luther. Luther<br /> simply substituted his chain for that of
+      the Catholics.<br /> Voltaire had none. The Encyclopaedists of France<br />
+      did more for liberty than all the writers upon theology.<br /> Bruno did
+      more for mankind than millions of "be-<br /> "lievers." Spinoza contributed
+      more to the growth<br /> of the human intellect than all the orthodox
+      theolo-<br /> gians.<br /> <br /> Men have not done good simply because they
+      have<br /> believed this or that doctrine. They have done good<br /> in the
+      intellectual world as they have thought and<br /> secured for others the
+      liberty to think and to ex-<br /> <br /> 178<br /> <br /> press their
+      thoughts. They have done good in the<br /> physical world by teaching their
+      fellows how to<br /> triumph over the obstructions of nature. Every<br />
+      man who has taught his fellow-man to think, has<br /> been a benefactor.
+      Every one who has supplied his<br /> fellow-men with facts, and insisted
+      upon their right<br /> to think, has been a blessing to his kind.<br />
+      <br /> Mr. Talmage, in order to show what Christians<br /> have done, points
+      us to Whitefield, Luther, Oberlin,<br /> Judson, Martyn, Bishop Mcllvaine
+      and Hannah<br /> More. I would not for one moment compare George<br />
+      Whitefield with the inventor of movable type, and<br /> there is no
+      parallel between Frederick Oberlin and<br /> the inventor of paper; not the
+      slightest between<br /> Martin Luther and the discoverer of the New World;<br />
+      not the least between Adoniram Judson and the in-<br /> ventor of the
+      reaper, nor between Henry Martyn<br /> and the discoverer of photography.
+      Of what use to<br /> the world was Bishop Mcllvaine, compared with<br /> the
+      inventor of needles? Of what use were a<br /> hundred such priests compared
+      with the inventor<br /> of matches, or even of clothes-pins? Suppose that<br />
+      Hannah More had never lived? about the same<br /> number would read her
+      writings now. It is hardly fair<br /> to compare her with the inventor of
+      the steamship?<br /> <br /> 179<br /> <br /> The progress of the world&mdash;its
+      present improved<br /> condition&mdash;can be accounted for only by the
+      discov-<br /> eries of genius, only by men who have had the<br /> courage to
+      express their honest thoughts.<br /> <br /> After all, the man who invented
+      the telescope<br /> found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of<br />
+      prayer had ever discovered. I feel absolutely certain<br /> that the
+      inventor of the steam engine was a greater<br /> benefactor to mankind than
+      the writer of the Presby-<br /> terian creed. I may be mistaken, but I
+      think that<br /> railways have done more to civilize mankind, than any<br />
+      system of theology. I believe that the printing press<br /> has done more
+      for the world than the pulpit. It is<br /> my opinion that the discoveries
+      of Kepler did a<br /> thousand times more to enlarge the minds of men<br />
+      than the prophecies of Daniel. I feel under far<br /> greater obligation to
+      Humboldt than to Haggai.<br /> The inventor of the plow did more good than
+      the<br /> maker of the first rosary&mdash;because, say what you<br /> will,
+      plowing is better than praying; we can live by<br /> plowing without
+      praying, but we can not live by<br /> praying without plowing. So I put my
+      faith in the<br /> plow.<br /> <br /> As Jehovah has ceased to make garments
+      for his<br /> children,&mdash;as he has stopped making coats of skins,<br />
+      <br /> 180<br /> <br /> I have great respect for the inventors of the
+      spinning-<br /> jenny and the sewing machine. As no more laws<br /> are
+      given from Sinai, I have admiration for the real<br /> statesmen. As
+      miracles have ceased, I rely on<br /> medicine, and on a reasonable
+      compliance with the<br /> conditions of health.<br /> <br /> I have infinite
+      respect for the inventors, the<br /> thinkers, the discoverers, and above
+      all, for the un-<br /> known millions who have, without the hope of fame,<br />
+      lived and labored for the ones they loved.<br /> <br /> <br /> <a
+      name="link0007" id="link0007"></a><br /> <br /> <br /> <big><b>FIFTH
+      INTERVIEW.</b></big><br /> <br /> <i>Parson. You had belter join the church;
+      it is<br /> the safer way.<br /> <br /> Sinner. I can't live up to your
+      doctrines, and you<br /> know it.<br /> <br /> Parson. Well, you can come as
+      near it in the<br /> church as out; and forgiveness<br /> <br /> will be
+      easier if you join us.<br /> <br /> Sinner. What do you mean by that?<br />
+      <br /> Parson. I will tell you. If you join the church,<br /> and happen to
+      back-slide now and then, Christ will<br /> say to his Father: "That man is
+      a "friend of mine,<br /> and you may charge his account to me."</i><br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What have you to say about the<br /> fifth sermon of
+      the Rev. Mr. Talmage in reply<br /> to you?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The
+      text from which he preached is:<br /> "Do men gather grapes of thorns, or
+      figs of thistles?"<br /> I am compelled to answer these questions in the<br />
+      negative. That is one reason why I am an infidel.<br /> I do not believe
+      that anybody can gather grapes of<br /> thorns, or figs of thistles. That
+      is exactly my doctrine.<br /> But the doctrine of the church is, that you
+      can. The<br /> <br /> 184<br /> <br /> church says, that just at the last, no
+      matter if you<br /> have spent your whole life in raising thorns and
+      thistles,<br /> in planting and watering and hoeing and plowing<br /> thorns
+      and thistles&mdash;that just at the last, if you will<br /> repent, between
+      hoeing the last thistle and taking the<br /> last breath, you can reach out
+      the white and palsied<br /> hand of death and gather from every thorn a
+      cluster<br /> of grapes and from every thistle an abundance of<br /> figs.
+      The church insists that in this way you can<br /> gather enough grapes and
+      figs to last you through all<br /> eternity.<br /> <br /> My doctrine is,
+      that he who raises thorns must<br /> harvest thorns. If you sow thorns, you
+      must reap<br /> thorns; and there is no way by which an innocent<br /> being
+      can have the thorns you raise thrust into his<br /> brow, while you gather
+      his grapes.<br /> <br /> But Christianity goes even further than this. It<br />
+      insists that a man can plant grapes and gather thorns.<br /> Mr. Talmage
+      insists that, no matter how good you<br /> are, no matter how kind, no
+      matter how much you<br /> love your wife and children, no matter how many<br />
+      self-denying acts you do, you will not be allowed to<br /> eat of the
+      grapes you raise; that God will step be-<br /> tween you and the natural
+      consequences of your<br /> goodness, and not allow you to reap what you
+      sow.<br /> <br /> 185<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage insists, that if you have no
+      faith in the<br /> Lord Jesus Christ, although you have been good<br />
+      here, you will reap eternal pain as your harvest; that<br /> the effect of
+      honesty and kindness will not be peace<br /> and joy, but agony and pain.
+      So that the church<br /> does insist not only that you can gather grapes
+      from<br /> thorns, but thorns from grapes.<br /> <br /> I believe exactly the
+      other way. If a man is a<br /> good man here, dying will not change him,
+      and he<br /> will land on the shore of another world&mdash;if there is<br />
+      one&mdash;the same good man that he was when he left<br /> this; and I do
+      not believe there is any God in this<br /> universe who can afford to damn
+      a good man. This<br /> God will say to this man: You loved your wife,<br />
+      your children, and your friends, and I love you.<br /> You treated others
+      with kindness; I will treat you<br /> in the same way. But Mr. Talmage
+      steps up to<br /> his God, nudges his elbow, and says: Although he<br /> was
+      a very good man, he belonged to no church;<br /> he was a blasphemer; he
+      denied the whale story, and<br /> after I explained that Jonah was only in
+      the whale's<br /> mouth, he still denied it; and thereupon Mr. Tal-<br />
+      mage expects that his infinite God will fly in a<br /> passion, and in a
+      perfect rage will say: What! did<br /> he deny that story? Let him be
+      eternally damned!<br /> <br /> 186<br /> <br /> Not only this, but Mr. Talmage
+      insists that a man<br /> may have treated his wife like a wild beast; may
+      have<br /> trampled his child beneath the feet of his rage; may<br /> have
+      lived a life of dishonesty, of infamy, and yet,<br /> having repented on
+      his dying bed, having made his<br /> peace with God through the
+      intercession of his Son,<br /> he will be welcomed in heaven with shouts of
+      joy.<br /> I deny it. I do not believe that angels can be so<br /> quickly
+      made from rascals. I have but little confi-<br /> dence in repentance
+      without restitution, and a hus-<br /> band who has driven a wife to
+      insanity and death by<br /> his cruelty&mdash;afterward repenting and
+      finding himself<br /> in heaven, and missing his wife,&mdash;were he worthy
+      to<br /> be an angel, would wander through all the gulfs of<br /> hell until
+      he clasped her once again..<br /> <br /> Now, the next question is, What
+      must be done with<br /> those who are sometimes good and sometimes bad?<br />
+      That is my condition. If there is another world, I<br /> expect to have the
+      same opportunity of behaving<br /> myself that I have here. If, when I get
+      there, I fail<br /> to act as I should, I expect to reap what I sow. If,<br />
+      when I arrive at the New Jerusalem, I go into the<br /> thorn business, I
+      expect to harvest what I plant. If<br /> I am wise enough to start a
+      vineyard, I expect to<br /> have grapes in the early fall. But if I do
+      there as I<br /> <br /> 187<br /> <br /> have done here&mdash;plant some
+      grapes and some thorns,<br /> and harvest them together&mdash;I expect to
+      fare very<br /> much as I have fared here. But I expect year by<br /> year
+      to grow wiser, to plant fewer thorns every<br /> spring, and more grapes.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges that you have<br /> taken the
+      ground that the Bible is a cruel book, and<br /> has produced cruel people?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, I have taken that ground, and I<br /> maintain
+      it. The Bible was produced by cruel people,<br /> and in its turn it has
+      produced people like its authors.<br /> The extermination of the Canaanites
+      was cruel.<br /> Most of the laws of Moses were bloodthirsty and<br />
+      cruel. Hundreds of offences were punishable by<br /> death, while now, in
+      civilized countries, there are only<br /> two crimes for which the
+      punishment is capital. I<br /> charge that Moses and Joshua and David and
+      Samuel<br /> and Solomon were cruel. I believe that to read and<br />
+      believe the Old Testament naturally makes a man<br /> careless of human
+      life. That book has produced<br /> hundreds of religious wars, and it has
+      furnished the<br /> battle-cries of bigotry for fifteen hundred years.<br />
+      <br /> The Old Testament is filled with cruelty, but its<br /> cruelty stops
+      with this world, its malice ends with<br /> <br /> 188<br /> <br /> death;
+      whenever its victim has reached the grave,<br /> revenge is satisfied. Not
+      so with the New Testament.<br /> It pursues its victim forever. After
+      death, comes<br /> hell; after the grave, the worm that never dies. So<br />
+      that, as a matter of fact, the New Testament is in-<br /> finitely more
+      cruel than the Old.<br /> <br /> Nothing has so tended to harden the human
+      heart<br /> as the doctrine of eternal punishment, and that<br /> passage:
+      "He that believeth and is baptized shall be<br /> "saved, and he that
+      believeth not shall be damned,"<br /> has shed more blood than all the
+      other so-called<br /> "sacred books" of all this world.<br /> <br /> I insist
+      that the Bible is cruel. The Bible invented<br /> instruments of torture.
+      The Bible laid the foundations<br /> of the Inquisition. The Bible
+      furnished the fagots and<br /> the martyrs. The Bible forged chains not
+      only for the<br /> hands, but for the brains of men. The Bible was at<br />
+      the bottom of the massacre of St. Bartholomew.<br /> Every man who has been
+      persecuted for religion's<br /> sake has been persecuted by the Bible. That
+      sacred<br /> book has been a beast of prey.<br /> <br /> The truth is,
+      Christians have been good in spite of<br /> the Bible. The Bible has lived
+      upon the reputations of<br /> good men and good women,&mdash;men and women
+      who<br /> were good notwithstanding the brutality they found<br /> <br />
+      <br /> 189<br /> <br /> upon the inspired page. Men have said: "My mother<br />
+      "believed in the Bible; my mother was good; there-<br /> "fore, the Bible
+      is good," when probably the mother<br /> never read a chapter in it.<br />
+      <br /> The Bible produced the Church of Rome, and<br /> Torquemada was a
+      product of the Bible. Philip of<br /> Spain and the Duke of Alva were
+      produced by the<br /> Bible. For thirty years Europe was one vast battle-<br />
+      field, and the war was produced by the Bible. The re-<br /> vocation of the
+      Edict of Nantes was produced by the<br /> sacred Scriptures. The
+      instruments of torture&mdash;the<br /> pincers, the thumb-screws, the
+      racks, were produced<br /> by the word of God. The Quakers of New England<br />
+      were whipped and burned by the Bible&mdash;their children<br /> were stolen
+      by the Bible. The slave-ship had for its<br /> sails the leaves of the
+      Bible. Slavery was upheld in<br /> the United States by the Bible. The
+      Bible was the<br /> auction-block. More than this, worse than this,<br />
+      infinitely beyond the computation of imagination, the<br /> despotisms of
+      the old world all rested and still rest<br /> upon the Bible. "The powers
+      that be" were sup-<br /> posed to have been "ordained of God;" and he who<br />
+      rose against his king periled his soul.<br /> <br /> In this connection, and
+      in order to show the state<br /> of society when the church had entire
+      control of civil<br /> <br /> 190<br /> <br /> and ecclesiastical affairs, it
+      may be well enough to<br /> read the following, taken from the <i>New York
+      Sun</i> of<br /> March 21, 1882. From this little extract, it will be<br />
+      easy in the imagination to re-organize the government<br /> that then
+      existed, and to see clearly the state of so-<br /> ciety at that time. This
+      can be done upon the same<br /> principle that one scale tells of the
+      entire fish, or one<br /> bone of the complete animal:<br /> <br /> "From
+      records in the State archives of Hesse-<br /> "Darmstadt, dating back to
+      the thirteenth century,<br /> "it appears that the public executioner's fee
+      for boiling<br /> "a criminal in oil was twenty-four florins; for decapi-<br />
+      "tating with the sword, fifteen florins and-a-half; for<br /> "quartering,
+      the same; for breaking on the wheel,<br /> "five florins, thirty kreuzers;
+      for tearing a man to<br /> "pieces, eighteen florins. Ten florins per head
+      was<br /> "his charge for hanging, and he burned delinquents<br /> "alive at
+      the rate of fourteen florins apiece. For ap-<br /> "plying the 'Spanish
+      boot' his fee was only two<br /> "florins. Five florins were paid to him
+      every time he<br /> "subjected a refractory witness to the torture of the<br />
+      "rack. The same amount was his due for 'branding<br /> "'the sign of the
+      gallows with a red-hot iron upon<br /> "'the back, forehead, or cheek of a
+      thief,' as well as<br /> "for 'cutting off the nose and ears of a slanderer
+      or<br /> <br /> 191<br /> <br /> "'blasphemer.' Flogging with rods was a cheap<br />
+      "punishment, its remuneration being fixed at three<br /> "florins, thirty
+      kreuzers."<br /> <br /> The Bible has made men cruel. It is a cruel book.<br />
+      And yet, amidst its thorns, amidst its thistles, amidst<br /> its nettles
+      and its swords and pikes, there are some<br /> flowers, and these I wish,
+      in common with all good<br /> men, to save.<br /> <br /> I do not believe
+      that men have ever been made<br /> merciful in war by reading the Old
+      Testament. I do<br /> not believe that men have ever been prompted to<br />
+      break the chain of a slave by reading the Pentateuch.<br /> The question is
+      not whether Florence Nightingale and<br /> Miss Dix were cruel. I have said
+      nothing about<br /> John Howard, nothing about Abbott Lawrence.<br /> I say
+      nothing about people in this connection. The<br /> question is: Is the
+      Bible a cruel book? not: Was<br /> Miss Nightingale a cruel woman? There
+      have been<br /> thousands and thousands of loving, tender and char-<br />
+      itable Mohammedans. Mohammedan mothers love<br /> their children as well as
+      Christian mothers can.<br /> Mohammedans have died in defence of the Koran&mdash;<br />
+      died for the honor of an impostor. There were<br /> millions of charitable
+      people in India&mdash;millions in<br /> Egypt&mdash;and I am not sure that
+      the world has ever<br /> <br /> 192<br /> <br /> produced people who loved one
+      another better than<br /> the Egyptians.<br /> <br /> I think there are many
+      things in the Old Testament<br /> calculated to make man cruel. Mr. Talmage
+      asks:<br /> "What has been the effect upon your children? As<br /> "they
+      have become more and more fond of the<br /> "Scriptures have they become
+      more and more fond<br /> "of tearing off the wings of flies and pinning
+      grass-<br /> "hoppers and robbing birds' nests?"<br /> <br /> I do not
+      believe that reading the bible would make<br /> them tender toward flies or
+      grasshoppers. According<br /> to that book, God used to punish animals for
+      the<br /> crimes of their owners. He drowned the animals in<br /> a flood.
+      He visited cattle with disease. He bruised<br /> them to death with
+      hailstones&mdash;killed them by the<br /> thousand. Will the reading of
+      these things make<br /> children kind to animals? So, the whole system of<br />
+      sacrifices in the Old Testament is calculated to harden<br /> the heart.
+      The butchery of oxen and lambs, the killing<br /> of doves, the perpetual
+      destruction of life, the con-<br /> tinual shedding of blood&mdash;these
+      things, if they have<br /> any tendency, tend only to harden the heart of
+      child-<br /> hood.<br /> <br /> The Bible does not stop simply with the
+      killing of<br /> animals. The Jews were commanded to kill their<br /> <br />
+      193<br /> <br /> neighbors&mdash;not only the men, but the women; not<br />
+      only the women, but the babes. In accordance with<br /> the command of God,
+      the Jews killed not only their<br /> neighbors, but their own brothers; and
+      according to<br /> this book, which is the foundation, as Mr. Talmage<br />
+      believes, of all mercy, men were commanded to kill<br /> their wives
+      because they differed with them on the<br /> subject of religion.<br />
+      <br /> Nowhere in the world can be found laws more un-<br /> just and cruel
+      than in the Old Testament.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage wants
+      you to tell where<br /> the cruelty of the Bible crops out in the lives of
+      Chris-<br /> tians?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. In the first place, millions
+      of Christians<br /> have been persecutors. Did they get the idea of<br />
+      persecution from the Bible? Will not every honest<br /> man admit that the
+      early Christians, by reading the<br /> Old Testament, became convinced that
+      it was not<br /> only their privilege, but their duty, to destroy heathen<br />
+      nations? Did they not, by reading the same book,<br /> come to the
+      conclusion that it was their solemn duty<br /> to extirpate heresy and
+      heretics? According to the<br /> New Testament, nobody could be saved
+      unless he<br /> believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. The early Chris-<br />
+      <br /> 194<br /> <br /> tians believed this dogma. They also believed that<br />
+      they had a right to defend themselves and their<br /> children from
+      "heretics."<br /> <br /> We all admit that a man has a right to defend his<br />
+      children against the assaults of a would-be murderer,<br /> and he has the
+      right to carry this defence to the<br /> extent of killing the assailant.
+      If we have the right<br /> to kill people who are simply trying to kill the
+      bodies<br /> of our children, of course we have the right to kill<br /> them
+      when they are endeavoring to assassinate, not<br /> simply their bodies,
+      but their souls. It was in this<br /> way Christians reasoned. If the
+      Testament is right,<br /> their reasoning was correct. Whoever believes the<br />
+      New Testament literally&mdash;whoever is satisfied that it<br /> is
+      absolutely the word of God, will become a perse-<br /> cutor. All religious
+      persecution has been, and is, in<br /> exact harmony with the teachings of
+      the Old and<br /> New Testaments. Of course I mean with some of<br /> the
+      teachings. I admit that there are passages in<br /> both the Old and New
+      Testaments against persecu-<br /> tion. These are passages quoted only in
+      time of<br /> peace. Others are repeated to feed the flames of<br /> war.<br />
+      <br /> I find, too, that reading the Bible and believing the<br /> Bible do
+      not prevent even ministers from telling false-<br /> <br /> 195<br /> <br />
+      hoods about their opponents. I find that the Rev.<br /> Mr. Talmage is
+      willing even to slander the dead,&mdash;<br /> that he is willing to stain
+      the memory of a Christian,<br /> and that he does not hesitate to give
+      circulation<br /> to what he knows to be untrue. Mr. Talmage<br /> has
+      himself, I believe, been the subject of a church<br /> trial. How many of
+      the Christian witnesses against<br /> him, in his judgment, told the truth?
+      Yet they were<br /> all Bible readers and Bible believers. What effect, in<br />
+      his judgment, did the reading of the Bible have upon<br /> his enemies? Is
+      he willing to admit that the testi-<br /> mony of a Bible, reader and
+      believer is true? Is he<br /> willing to accept the testimony even of
+      ministers?<br /> &mdash;of his brother ministers? Did reading the Bible<br />
+      make them bad people? Was it a belief in the Bible<br /> that colored their
+      testimony? Or, was it a belief in<br /> the Bible that made Mr. Talmage
+      deny the truth of<br /> their statements?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr.
+      Talmage charges you with having<br /> said that the Scriptures are a
+      collection of polluted<br /> writings?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I have
+      never said such a thing. I have<br /> said, and I still say, that there are
+      passages in the<br /> Bible unfit to be read&mdash;passages that never
+      should<br /> <br /> 196<br /> <br /> have been written&mdash;passages, whether
+      inspired or<br /> uninspired, that can by no possibility do any human<br />
+      being any good. I have always admitted that there<br /> are good passages
+      in the Bible&mdash;many good, wise<br /> and just laws&mdash;many things
+      calculated to make men<br /> better&mdash;many things calculated to make
+      men worse.<br /> I admit that the Bible is a mixture of good and bad,<br />
+      of truth and falsehood, of history and fiction, of sense<br /> and
+      nonsense, of virtue and vice, of aspiration and<br /> revenge, of liberty
+      and tyranny.<br /> <br /> I have never said anything against Solomon's<br />
+      Song. I like it better than I do any book that pre-<br /> cedes it, because
+      it touches upon the human. In the<br /> desert of murder, wars of
+      extermination, polygamy,<br /> concubinage and slavery, it is an oasis
+      where the<br /> trees grow, where the birds sing, and where human<br /> love
+      blossoms and fills the air with perfume. I do<br /> not regard that book as
+      obscene. There are many<br /> things in it that are beautiful and tender,
+      and it is<br /> calculated to do good rather than harm.<br /> <br /> Neither
+      have I any objection to the book of Eccle-<br /> siastes&mdash;except a few
+      interpolations in it. That book<br /> was written by a Freethinker, by a
+      philosopher.<br /> There is not the slightest mention of God in it, nor<br />
+      of another state of existence. All portions in which<br /> <br /> 197<br />
+      <br /> God is mentioned are interpolations. With some of<br /> this book I
+      agree heartily. I believe in the doctrine<br /> of enjoying yourself, if
+      you can, to-day. I think it<br /> foolish to spend all your years in
+      heaping up treas-<br /> ures, not knowing but he who will spend them is to<br />
+      be an idiot. I believe it is far better to be happy with<br /> your wife
+      and child now, than to be miserable here,<br /> with angelic expectations
+      in some other world.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage is mistaken when he supposes
+      that all<br /> Bible believers have good homes, that all Bible readers<br />
+      are kind in their families. As a matter of fact, nearly all<br /> the
+      wife-whippers of the United States are orthodox.<br /> Nine-tenths of the
+      people in the penitentiaries are<br /> believers. Scotland is one of the
+      most orthodox<br /> countries in the world, and one of the most intem-<br />
+      perate. Hundreds and hundreds of women are<br /> arrested every year in
+      Glasgow for drunkenness.<br /> Visit the Christian homes in the
+      manufacturing dis-<br /> tricts of England. Talk with the beaters of
+      children<br /> and whippers of wives, and you will find them be-<br />
+      lievers. Go into what is known as the "Black<br /> "Country," and you will
+      have an idea of the Chris-<br /> tian civilization of England.<br /> <br />
+      Let me tell you something about the "Black<br /> "Country." There women
+      work in iron; there women<br /> <br /> 198<br /> <br /> do the work of men.
+      Let me give you an instance:<br /> A commission was appointed by Parliament
+      to ex-<br /> amine into the condition of the women in the "Black<br />
+      "Country," and a report was made. In that report<br /> I read the
+      following:<br /> <br /> "A superintendent of a brickyard where women<br />
+      "were engaged in carrying bricks from the yard to<br /> "the kiln, said to
+      one of the women:<br /> <br /> "'Eliza, you don't appear to be very uppish
+      this<br /> "morning.'"<br /> <br /> "'Neither would you be very uppish, sir,'
+      she re-<br /> "plied, 'if you had had a child last night.'"<br /> <br /> This
+      gives you an idea of the Christian civilization<br /> of England.<br />
+      <br /> England and Ireland produce most of the prize-<br /> fighters. The
+      scientific burglar is a product of Great<br /> Britain. There is not the
+      great difference that Mr.<br /> Talmage supposes, between the morality of
+      Pekin<br /> and of New York. I doubt if there is a city in<br /> the world
+      with more crime according to the population<br /> than New York, unless it
+      be London, or it may be<br /> Dublin, or Brooklyn, or possibly Glasgow,
+      where<br /> a man too pious to read a newspaper published on<br /> Sunday,
+      stole millions from the poor.<br /> <br /> I do not believe there is a
+      country in the world<br /> <br /> 199<br /> <br /> where there is more robbery
+      than in Christian lands&mdash;<br /> no country where more cashiers are
+      defaulters, where<br /> more presidents of banks take the money of
+      depositors,<br /> where there is more adulteration of food, where<br />
+      fewer ounces make a pound, where fewer inches make<br /> a yard, where
+      there is more breach of trust, more<br /> respectable larceny under the
+      name of embezzlement,<br /> or more slander circulated as gospel.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage insists that there are no<br />
+      contradictions in the Bible&mdash;that it is a perfect har-<br /> mony from
+      Genesis to Revelation&mdash;a harmony as<br /> perfect as any piece of
+      music ever written by<br /> Beethoven or Handel?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Of course, if God wrote it, the Bible<br /> ought to be perfect. I do not
+      see why a minister<br /> should be so perfectly astonished to find that an<br />
+      inspired book is consistent with itself throughout.<br /> Yet the truth is,
+      the Bible is infinitely inconsistent.<br /> <br /> Compare the two systems&mdash;the
+      system of Jehovah<br /> and that of Jesus. In the Old Testament the
+      doctrine<br /> of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was<br />
+      taught. In the New Testament, "forgive your<br /> "enemies," and "pray for
+      those who despitefully<br /> "use you and persecute you." In the Old
+      Testament<br /> <br /> 200<br /> <br /> it is kill, burn, massacre, destroy;
+      in the New forgive.<br /> The two systems are inconsistent, and one is just<br />
+      about as far wrong as the other. To live for and<br /> thirst for revenge,
+      to gloat over the agony of an<br /> enemy, is one extreme; to "resist not
+      evil" is the<br /> other extreme; and both these extremes are equally<br />
+      distant from the golden mean of justice.<br /> <br /> The four gospels do
+      not even agree as to the terms<br /> of salvation. And yet, Mr. Talmage
+      tells us that<br /> there are four cardinal doctrines taught in the Bible&mdash;<br />
+      the goodness of God, the fall of man, the sympathetic<br /> and forgiving
+      nature of the Savior, and two desti-<br /> nies&mdash;one for believers and
+      the other for unbelievers.<br /> That is to say:<br /> <br /> 1. That God is
+      good, holy and forgiving.<br /> <br /> 2. That man is a lost sinner.<br />
+      <br /> 3. That Christ is "all sympathetic," and ready to<br /> take the
+      whole world to his heart.<br /> <br /> 4. Heaven for believers and hell for
+      unbelievers.<br /> <br /> <i>First</i>. I admit that the Bible says that God
+      is<br /> <br /> good and holy. But this Bible also tells what God<br /> did,
+      and if God did what the Bible says he did, then I<br /> insist that God is
+      not good, and that he is not holy,<br /> or forgiving. According to the
+      Bible, this good<br /> God believed in religious persecution; this good<br />
+      <br /> 201<br /> <br /> God believed in extermination, in polygamy, in con-<br />
+      cubinage, in human slavery; this good God com-<br /> manded murder and
+      massacre, and this good God<br /> could only be mollified by the shedding
+      of blood.<br /> This good God wanted a butcher for a priest. This<br /> good
+      God wanted husbands to kill their wives&mdash;<br /> wanted fathers and
+      mothers to kill their children.<br /> This good God persecuted animals on
+      account of the<br /> crimes of their owners. This good God killed the<br />
+      common people because the king had displeased him.<br /> This good God
+      killed the babe even of the maid<br /> behind the mill, in order that he
+      might get even with<br /> a king. This good God committed every possible<br />
+      crime.<br /> <br /> <i>Second</i>. The statement that man is a lost sinner<br />
+      is not true. There are thousands and thousands of<br /> magnificent Pagans&mdash;men
+      ready to die for wife, or<br /> child, or even for friend, and the history
+      of Pagan<br /> countries is filled with self-denying and heroic acts.<br />
+      If man is a failure, the infinite God, if there be one,<br /> is to blame.
+      Is it possible that the God of Mr. Tal-<br /> mage could not have made man
+      a success? Accord-<br /> ing to the Bible, his God made man knowing that in<br />
+      about fifteen hundred years he would have to drown<br /> all his
+      descendants.<br /> <br /> 202<br /> <br /> Why would a good God create a man
+      that he<br /> knew would be a sinner all his life, make hundreds<br /> of
+      thousands of his fellow-men unhappy, and who at<br /> last would be doomed
+      to an eternity of suffering?<br /> Can such a God be good? How could a
+      devil have<br /> done worse?<br /> <br /> <i>Third.</i> If God is infinitely
+      good, is he not fully as<br /> sympathetic as Christ? Do you have to employ<br />
+      Christ to mollify a being of infinite mercy? Is Christ<br /> any more
+      willing to take to his heart the whole world<br /> than his Father is?
+      Personally, I have not the<br /> slightest objection in the world to
+      anybody believing<br /> in an infinitely good and kind God&mdash;not the
+      slightest<br /> objection to any human being worshiping an infi-<br />
+      nitely tender and merciful Christ&mdash;not the slightest<br /> objection
+      to people preaching about heaven, or about<br /> the glories of the future
+      state&mdash;not the slightest.<br /> <br /> <i>Fourth</i>. I object to the
+      doctrine of two destinies<br /> for the human race. I object to the
+      infamous false-<br /> hood of eternal fire. And yet, Mr. Talmage is en-<br />
+      deavoring to poison the imagination of men, women<br /> and children with
+      the doctrine of an eternal hell.<br /> Here is what he preaches, taken from
+      the "Constitu-<br /> "tion of the Presbyterian Church of the United<br />
+      "States:"<br /> <br /> 203<br /> <br /> "By the decrees of God, for the
+      manifestation of<br /> "his glory, some men and angels are predestinated<br />
+      "to everlasting life, and others foreordained to ever-<br /> "lasting
+      death."<br /> <br /> That is the doctrine of Mr. Talmage. He wor-<br /> ships
+      a God who damns people "for the manifesta-<br /> "tion of his glory,"&mdash;a
+      God who made men, knowing<br /> that they would be damned&mdash;a God who
+      damns<br /> babes simply to increase his reputation with the<br /> angels.
+      This is the God of Mr. Talmage. Such a<br /> God I abhor, despise and
+      execrate.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What does Mr. Talmage think of man-<br />
+      kind? What is his opinion of the "unconverted"?<br /> How does he regard
+      the great and glorious of the<br /> earth, who have not been the victims of
+      his particular<br /> superstition? What does he think of some of the<br />
+      best the earth has produced?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I will tell you how
+      he looks upon all<br /> such. Read this from his "Confession of Faith:"<br />
+      <br /> "Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety<br /> "of the
+      tempter, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.<br /> "By this sin, they
+      fell from their original righteous-<br /> "ness and communion with God, and
+      so became<br /> "dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties<br />
+      <br /> 204<br /> <br /> "and parts of soul and body; and they being the<br />
+      "root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was<br /> "imputed, and the
+      same death in sin and corrupted<br /> "nature conveyed to all their
+      posterity. From this<br /> "original corruption&mdash;whereby we are
+      utterly indis-<br /> "posed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,<br />
+      "and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual<br />
+      "transgressions."<br /> <br /> This is Mr. Talmage's view of humanity.<br />
+      <br /> Why did his God make a devil? Why did he<br /> allow the devil to
+      tempt Adam and Eve? Why did<br /> he leave innocence and ignorance at the
+      mercy of<br /> subtlety and wickedness? Why did he put "the<br /> "tree of
+      the knowledge of good and evil" in the<br /> garden? For what reason did he
+      place temptation<br /> in the way of his children? Was it kind, was it
+      just,<br /> was it noble, was it worthy of a good God? No<br /> wonder
+      Christ put into his prayer: "Lead us not<br /> "into temptation."<br />
+      <br /> At the time God told Adam and Eve not to eat,<br /> why did he not
+      tell them of the existence of Satan?<br /> Why were they not put upon their
+      guard against the<br /> serpent? Why did not God make his appearance<br />
+      just before the sin, instead of just after. Why did<br /> he not play the
+      role of a Savior instead of that of a<br /> <br /> 205<br /> <br /> detective?
+      After he found that Adam and Eve had<br /> sinned&mdash;knowing as he did
+      that they were then<br /> totally corrupt&mdash;knowing that all their
+      children<br /> would be corrupt, knowing that in fifteen hundred<br /> years
+      he would have to drown millions of them, why<br /> did he not allow Adam
+      and Eve to perish in accord-<br /> ance with natural law, then kill the
+      devil, and make a<br /> new pair?<br /> <br /> When the flood came, why did
+      he not drown all?<br /> Why did he save for seed that which was "perfectly<br />
+      "and thoroughly corrupt in all its parts and facul-<br /> "ties"? If God
+      had drowned Noah and his sons<br /> and their families, he could have then
+      made a new<br /> pair, and peopled the world with men not "wholly<br />
+      "defiled in all their faculties and parts of soul and<br /> "body."<br />
+      <br /> Jehovah learned nothing by experience. He per-<br /> sisted in his
+      original mistake. What would we think<br /> of a man who finding that a
+      field of wheat was<br /> worthless, and that such wheat never could be<br />
+      raised with profit, should burn all of the field with the<br /> exception
+      of a few sheaves, which he saved for seed?<br /> Why save such seed? Why
+      should God have pre-<br /> served Noah, knowing that he was totally
+      corrupt,<br /> and that he would again fill the world with infamous<br />
+      <br /> 206<br /> <br /> people&mdash;people incapable of a good action? He<br />
+      must have known at that time, that by preserving<br /> Noah, the Canaanites
+      would be produced, that these<br /> same Canaanites would have to be
+      murdered, that<br /> the babes in the cradles would have to be strangled.<br />
+      Why did he produce them? He knew at that time,<br /> that Egypt would
+      result from the salvation of Noah,<br /> that the Egyptians would have to
+      be nearly de-<br /> stroyed, that he would have to kill their first-born,<br />
+      that he would have to visit even their cattle with<br /> disease and
+      hailstones. He knew also that the<br /> Egyptians would oppress his chosen
+      people for two<br /> hundred and fifteen years, that they would upon the<br />
+      back of toil inflict the lash. Why did he preserve<br /> Noah? He should
+      have drowned all, and started<br /> with a new pair. He should have warned
+      them<br /> against the devil, and he might have succeeded, in<br /> that
+      way, in covering the world with gentlemen and<br /> ladies, with real men
+      and real women.<br /> <br /> We know that most of the people now in the<br />
+      world are not Christians. Most who have heard the<br /> gospel of Christ
+      have rejected it, and the Presby-<br /> terian Church tells us what is to
+      become of all these<br /> people. This is the "glad tidings of great joy."<br />
+      Let us see:<br /> <br /> 207<br /> <br /> "All mankind, by their fall, lost
+      communion with<br /> "God, are under his wrath and curse, and so made<br />
+      "liable to all the miseries of this life, to death itself,<br /> "and to
+      the pains of hell forever."<br /> <br /> According to this good Presbyterian
+      doctrine, all<br /> that we suffer in this world, is the result of Adam's<br />
+      fall. The babes of to-day suffer for the crime of the<br /> first parents.
+      Not only so; but God is angry at us<br /> for what Adam did. We are under
+      the wrath of an<br /> infinite God, whose brows are corrugated with eternal<br />
+      hatred.<br /> <br /> Why should God hate us for being what we are<br /> and
+      necessarily must have been? A being that God<br /> made&mdash;the devil&mdash;for
+      whose work God is responsible,<br /> according to the Bible wrought this
+      woe. God of his<br /> own free will must have made the devil. What did<br />
+      he make him for? Was it necessary to have a devil<br /> in heaven? God,
+      having infinite power, can of<br /> course destroy this devil to-day. Why
+      does he per-<br /> mit him to live? Why did he allow him to thwart his<br />
+      plans? Why did he permit him to pollute the inno-<br /> cence of Eden? Why
+      does he allow him now to<br /> wrest souls by the million from the
+      redeeming hand<br /> of Christ?<br /> <br /> According to the Scriptures, the
+      devil has always<br /> <br /> 208<br /> <br /> been successful. He enjoys
+      himself. He is called<br /> "the prince of the power of the air." He has no<br />
+      conscientious scruples. He has miraculous power.<br /> All miraculous power
+      must come of God, otherwise<br /> it is simply in accordance with nature.
+      If the devil<br /> can work a miracle, it is only with the consent and<br />
+      by the assistance of the Almighty. Is the God of<br /> Mr. Talmage in
+      partnership with the devil? Do<br /> they divide profits?<br /> <br /> We are
+      also told by the Presbyterian Church&mdash;<br /> I quote from their
+      Confession of Faith&mdash;that "there<br /> "is no sin so small but it
+      deserves damnation.'' Yet<br /> Mr. Talmage tells us that God is good, that
+      he is filled<br /> with mercy and loving-kindness. A child nine or ten<br />
+      years of age commits a sin, and thereupon it deserves<br /> eternal
+      damnation. That is what Mr. Talmage calls,<br /> not simply justice, but
+      mercy; and the sympathetic<br /> heart of Christ is not touched. The same
+      being who<br /> said: "Suffer little children to come unto me," tells<br />
+      us that a child, for the smallest sin, deserves to be<br /> eternally
+      damned. The Presbyterian Church tells us<br /> that infants, as well as
+      adults, in order to be saved,<br /> need redemption by the blood of Christ,
+      and regen-<br /> eration by the Holy Ghost.<br /> <br /> I am charged with
+      trying to take the consolation<br /> <br /> 209<br /> <br /> of this doctrine
+      from the world. I am a criminal<br /> because I am endeavoring to convince
+      the mother<br /> that her child does not deserve eternal punishment.<br /> I
+      stand by the graves of those who "died in their<br /> "sins," by the tombs
+      of the "unregenerate," over the<br /> ashes of men who have spent their
+      lives working for<br /> their wives and children, and over the sacred dust
+      of<br /> soldiers who died in defence of flag and country,<br /> and I say
+      to their friends&mdash;I say to the living who<br /> loved them, I say to
+      the men and women for whom<br /> they worked, I say to the children whom
+      they edu-<br /> cated, I say to the country for which they died:<br /> These
+      fathers, these mothers, these wives, these<br /> husbands, these soldiers
+      are not in hell.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage insists that the
+      Bible is<br /> scientific, and that the real scientific man sees no<br />
+      contradiction between revelation and science; that,<br /> on the contrary,
+      they are in harmony. What is your<br /> understanding of this matter?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I do not believe the Bible to be a sci-<br /> entific
+      book. In fact, most of the ministers now admit<br /> that it was not
+      written to teach any science. They<br /> admit that the first chapter of
+      Genesis is not geo-<br /> logically true. They admit that Joshua knew
+      nothing<br /> <br /> 210<br /> <br /> of science. They admit that four-footed
+      birds did<br /> not exist in the days of Moses. In fact, the only<br /> way
+      they can avoid the unscientific statements of the<br /> Bible, is to assert
+      that the writers simply used the<br /> common language of their day, and
+      used it, not with<br /> the intention of teaching any scientific truth, but
+      for<br /> the purpose of teaching some moral truth. As a<br /> matter of
+      fact, we find that moral truths have been<br /> taught in all parts of this
+      world. They were taught<br /> in India long before Moses lived; in Egypt
+      long be-<br /> fore Abraham was born; in China thousands of<br /> years
+      before the flood. They were taught by hundreds<br /> and thousands and
+      millions before the Garden of<br /> Eden was planted.<br /> <br /> It would
+      be impossible to prove the truth of a<br /> revelation simply because it
+      contained moral truths.<br /> If it taught immorality, it would be
+      absolutely certain<br /> that it was not a revelation from an infinitely
+      good<br /> being. If it taught morality, it would be no reason<br /> for
+      even suspecting that it had a divine origin. But<br /> if the Bible had
+      given us scientific truths; if the<br /> ignorant Jews had given us the
+      true theory of our<br /> solar system; if from Moses we had learned the<br />
+      nature of light and heat; if from Joshua we had<br /> learned something of
+      electricity; if the minor pro-<br /> <br /> 211<br /> <br /> phets had given
+      us the distances to other planets;<br /> if the orbits of the stars had
+      been marked by the<br /> barbarians of that day, we might have admitted
+      that<br /> they must have been inspired. If they had said any-<br /> thing
+      in advance of their day; if they had plucked<br /> from the night of
+      ignorance one star of truth, we<br /> might have admitted the claim of
+      inspiration; but<br /> the Scriptures did not rise above their source, did<br />
+      not rise above their ignorant authors&mdash;above the<br /> people who
+      believed in wars of extermination, in<br /> polygamy, in concubinage, in
+      slavery, and who taught<br /> these things in their "sacred Scriptures."<br />
+      <br /> The greatest men in the scientific world have not<br /> been, and are
+      not, believers in the inspiration of the<br /> Scriptures. There has been
+      no greater astronomer<br /> than Laplace. There is no greater name than<br />
+      Humboldt. There is no living scientist who stands<br /> higher than Charles
+      Darwin. All the professors in<br /> all the religious colleges in this
+      country rolled into<br /> one, would not equal Charles Darwin. All the cow-<br />
+      ardly apologists for the cosmogony of Moses do not<br /> amount to as much
+      in the world of thought as Ernst<br /> Haeckel. There is no orthodox
+      scientist the equal<br /> of Tyndall or Huxley. There is not one in this<br />
+      country the equal of John Fiske. I insist, that the<br /> <br /> 212<br />
+      <br /> foremost men to-day in the scientific world reject the<br /> dogma of
+      inspiration. They reject the science of the<br /> Bible, and hold in utter
+      contempt the astronomy of<br /> Joshua, and the geology of Moses.<br />
+      <br /> Mr. Talmage tells us "that Science is a boy and<br /> "Revelation is
+      a man." Of course, like the most he<br /> says, it is substantially the
+      other way. Revelation,<br /> so-called, was the boy. Religion was the
+      lullaby of<br /> the cradle, the ghost-story told by the old woman,<br />
+      Superstition. Science is the man. Science asks for<br /> demonstration.
+      Science impels us to investigation,<br /> and to verify everything for
+      ourselves. Most pro-<br /> fessors of American colleges, if they were not
+      afraid<br /> of losing their places, if they did not know that<br />
+      Christians were bad enough now to take the bread<br /> from their mouths,
+      would tell their students that the<br /> Bible is not a scientific book.<br />
+      <br /> I admit that I have said:<br /> <br /> 1. That the Bible is cruel.<br />
+      <br /> 2. That in many passages it is impure.<br /> <br /> 3. That it is
+      contradictory.<br /> <br /> 4. That it is unscientific.<br /> <br /> Let me
+      now prove these propositions one by one.<br /> <br /> First. The Bible is
+      cruel.<br /> <br /> I have opened it at random, and the very first<br />
+      <br /> 213<br /> <br /> chapter that has struck my eye is the sixth of First<br />
+      Samuel. In the nineteenth verse of that chapter, I<br /> find the
+      following:<br /> <br /> "And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because<br />
+      "they had looked into the ark of the Lord; even he<br /> "smote of the
+      people fifty thousand and three-score<br /> "and ten men."<br /> <br /> All
+      this slaughter was because some people had<br /> looked into a box that was
+      carried upon a cart. Was<br /> that cruel?<br /> <br /> I find, also, in the
+      twenty-fourth chapter of Second<br /> Samuel, that David was moved by God
+      to number<br /> Israel and Judah. God put it into his heart to take<br /> a
+      census of his people, and thereupon David said to<br /> Joab, the captain
+      of his host:<br /> <br /> "Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from<br />
+      "Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people,<br /> "that I may know
+      the number of the people."<br /> <br /> At the end of nine months and twenty
+      days, Joab<br /> gave the number of the people to the king, and<br /> there
+      were at that time, according to that census,<br /> "eight hundred thousand
+      valiant men that drew the<br /> "sword," in Israel, and in Judah, "five
+      hundred<br /> "thousand men," making a total of thirteen hundred<br />
+      thousand men of war. The moment this census was<br /> <br /> 214<br /> <br />
+      taken, the wrath of the Lord waxed hot against<br /> David, and thereupon
+      he sent a seer, by the name of<br /> Gad, to David, and asked him to choose
+      whether he<br /> would have seven years of famine, or fly three<br /> months
+      before his enemies, or have three days of<br /> pestilence. David concluded
+      that as God was so<br /> merciful as to give him a choice, he would be more<br />
+      merciful than man, and he chose the pestilence.<br /> <br /> Now, it must be
+      remembered that the sin of taking<br /> the census had not been committed
+      by the people,<br /> but by David himself, inspired by God, yet the<br />
+      people were to be punished for David's sin. So,,<br /> when David chose the
+      pestilence, God immediately<br /> killed "seventy thousand men, from Dan
+      even to<br /> "Beersheba."<br /> <br /> "And when the angel stretched out his
+      hand upon<br /> "Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of<br />
+      "the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the<br /> "people, It is
+      enough; stay now thine hand."<br /> <br /> Was this cruel?<br /> <br /> Why
+      did a God of infinite mercy destroy seventy<br /> thousand men? Why did he
+      fill his land with widows<br /> and orphans, because King David had taken
+      the cen-<br /> sus? If he wanted to kill anybody, why did he not<br /> kill
+      David? I will tell you why. Because at that<br /> <br /> 215<br /> <br />
+      time, the people were considered as the property of<br /> the king. He
+      killed the people precisely as he killed<br /> the cattle. And yet, I am
+      told that the Bible is not a<br /> cruel book.<br /> <br /> In the
+      twenty-first chapter of Second Samuel, I<br /> find that there were three
+      years of famine in the days<br /> of David, and that David inquired of the
+      Lord the<br /> reason of the famine; and the Lord told him that it<br /> was
+      because Saul had slain the Gibeonites. Why did<br /> not God punish Saul
+      instead of the people? And<br /> David asked the Gibeonites how he should
+      make<br /> atonement, and the Gibeonites replied that they<br /> wanted no
+      silver nor gold, but they asked that seven<br /> of the sons of Saul might
+      be delivered unto them, so<br /> that they could hang them before the Lord,
+      in Gibeah.<br /> And David agreed to the proposition, and thereupon<br /> he
+      delivered to the Gibeonites the two sons of Rizpah,<br /> Saul's concubine,
+      and the five sons of Michal, the<br /> daughter of Saul, and the Gibeonites
+      hanged all<br /> seven of them together. And Rizpah, more tender<br /> than
+      them all, with a woman's heart of love kept<br /> lonely vigil by the dead,
+      "from the beginning of har-<br /> "vest until water dropped upon them out
+      of heaven,<br /> "and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest upon<br />
+      "them by day, nor the beast of the field by night."<br /> <br /> 216<br />
+      <br /> I want to know if the following, from the fifteenth<br /> chapter of
+      First Samuel, is inspired:<br /> <br /> "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I
+      remember that<br /> "which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for<br />
+      "him in the way when he came up from Egypt. Now<br /> "go and smite Amalek,
+      and utterly destroy all that<br /> "they have, and spare them not, but slay
+      both man<br /> "and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,<br /> "camel
+      and ass."<br /> <br /> We must remember that those he was commanded<br /> to
+      slay had done nothing to Israel. It was something<br /> done by their
+      forefathers, hundreds of years before;<br /> and yet they are commanded to
+      slay the women and<br /> children and even the animals, and to spare none.<br />
+      <br /> It seems that Saul only partially carried into exe-<br /> cution this
+      merciful command of Jehovah. He spared<br /> the life of the king. He
+      "utterly destroyed all the<br /> "people with the edge of the sword," but
+      he kept<br /> alive the best of the sheep and oxen and of the fat-<br />
+      lings and lambs. Then God spake unto Samuel and<br /> told him that he was
+      very sorry he had made Saul<br /> king, because he had not killed all the
+      animals, and<br /> because he had spared Agag; and Samuel asked<br /> Saul:
+      "What meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine<br /> "ears, and the lowing of
+      the oxen which I hear?"<br /> <br /> 217<br /> <br /> Are stories like this
+      calculated to make soldiers<br /> merciful?<br /> <br /> So I read in the
+      sixth chapter of Joshua, the fate<br /> of the city of Jericho: "And they
+      utterly destroyed<br /> "all that was in the city, both man and woman,<br />
+      "young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the<br /> "edge of the
+      sword. And they burnt the city with<br /> "fire, and all that was therein."
+      But we are told that<br /> one family was saved by Joshua, out of the
+      general<br /> destruction: "And Joshua saved Rahab, the harlot,<br />
+      "alive, and her father's household, and all that she<br /> "had." Was this
+      fearful destruction an act of<br /> mercy?<br /> <br /> It seems that they
+      saved the money of their<br /> victims: "the silver and gold and the
+      vessels of brass<br /> "and of iron they put into the treasury of the house<br />
+      "of the Lord."<br /> <br /> After all this pillage and carnage, it appears<br />
+      that there was a suspicion in Joshua's mind that<br /> somebody was keeping
+      back a part of the treasure.<br /> Search was made, and a man by the name
+      of Achan<br /> admitted that he had sinned against the Lord, that he<br />
+      had seen a Babylonish garment among the spoils, and<br /> two hundred
+      shekels of silver and a wedge of gold of<br /> fifty shekels' weight, and
+      that he took them and hid<br /> <br /> 2l8<br /> <br /> them in his tent. For
+      this atrocious crime it seems<br /> that the Lord denied any victories to
+      the Jews until<br /> they found out the wicked criminal. When they dis-<br />
+      covered poor Achan, "they took him and his sons<br /> "and his daughters,
+      and his oxen and his asses and<br /> "his sheep, and all that he had, and
+      brought them unto<br /> "the valley of Achor; and all Israel stoned him
+      with<br /> "stones and burned them with fire after they had<br /> "stoned
+      them with stones."<br /> <br /> After Achan and his sons and his daughters
+      and<br /> his herds had been stoned and burned to death, we<br /> are told
+      that "the Lord turned from the fierceness of<br /> "his anger."<br /> <br />
+      And yet it is insisted that this God "is merciful,<br /> "and that his
+      loving-kindness is over all his works."<br /> In the eighth chapter of this
+      same book, the infi-<br /> nite God, "creator of heaven and earth and all
+      that is<br /> "therein," told his general, Joshua, to lay an ambush<br />
+      for a city&mdash;to "lie in wait against the city, even be-<br /> "hind the
+      city; go not very far from the city, but be<br /> "ye all ready." He told
+      him to make an attack and<br /> then to run, as though he had been beaten,
+      in order<br /> that the inhabitants of the city might follow, and<br />
+      thereupon his reserves that he had ambushed might<br /> rush into the city
+      and set it on fire. God Almighty<br /> <br /> 219<br /> <br /> planned the
+      battle. God himself laid the snare. The<br /> whole programme was carried
+      out. Joshua made<br /> believe that he was beaten, and fled, and then the<br />
+      soldiers in ambush rose out of their places, enter-<br /> ed the city, and
+      set it on fire. Then came the<br /> slaughter. They "utterly destroyed all
+      the inhabit-<br /> "ants of Ai," men and maidens, women and babes,<br />
+      sparing only their king till evening, when they<br /> hanged him on a tree,
+      then "took his carcase down<br /> "from the tree and cast it at the
+      entering of the<br /> "gate, and raised thereon a great heap of stones<br />
+      "which remaineth unto this day." After having<br /> done all this, "Joshua
+      built an altar unto the Lord<br /> "God of Israel, and offered burnt
+      offerings unto the<br /> "Lord." I ask again, was this cruel?<br /> <br />
+      Again I ask, was the treatment of the Gibeonites<br /> cruel when they
+      sought to make peace but were<br /> denied, and cursed instead; and
+      although permitted<br /> to live, were yet made slaves? Read the mandate<br />
+      consigning them to bondage: "Now therefore ye<br /> "are cursed, and there
+      shall none of you be freed<br /> "from being bondmen and hewers of wood and<br />
+      "drawers of water for the house of my God."<br /> <br /> Is it possible, as
+      recorded in the tenth chapter of<br /> Joshua, that the Lord took part in
+      these battles, and<br /> <br /> 220<br /> <br /> cast down great hail-stones
+      from the battlements of<br /> heaven upon the enemies of the Israelites, so
+      that<br /> "they were more who died with hail-stones, than<br /> "they whom
+      the children of Israel slew with the<br /> "sword"?<br /> <br /> Is it
+      possible that a being of infinite power would<br /> exercise it in that way
+      instead of in the interest of<br /> kindness and peace?<br /> <br /> I find,
+      also, in this same chapter, that Joshua took<br /> Makkedah and smote it
+      with the edge of the sword,<br /> that he utterly destroyed all the souls
+      that were<br /> therein, that he allowed none to remain.<br /> <br /> I find
+      that he fought against Libnah, and smote<br /> it with the edge of the
+      sword, and utterly destroyed<br /> all the souls that were therein, and
+      allowed none to<br /> remain, and did unto the king as he did unto the king<br />
+      of Jericho.<br /> <br /> I find that he also encamped against Lachish, and<br />
+      that God gave him that city, and that he "smote it<br /> "with the edge of
+      the sword, and all the souls that<br /> "were therein," sparing neither old
+      nor young, help-<br /> less women nor prattling babes.<br /> <br /> He also
+      vanquished Horam, King of Gezer, "and<br /> "smote him and his people until
+      he left him none<br /> "remaining."<br /> <br /> 221<br /> <br /> He encamped
+      against the city of Eglon, and killed<br /> every soul that was in it, at
+      the edge of the sword,<br /> just as he had done to Lachish and all the
+      others.<br /> <br /> He fought against Hebron, "and took it and<br /> "smote
+      it with the edge of the sword, and the king<br /> "thereof,"&mdash;and it
+      appears that several cities, their<br /> number not named, were included in
+      this slaughter,<br /> for Hebron "and all the cities thereof and all the<br />
+      "souls that were therein," were utterly destroyed.<br /> <br /> He then
+      waged war against Debir and took it, and<br /> more unnumbered cities with
+      it, and all the souls that<br /> were therein shared the same horrible fate&mdash;he
+      did<br /> not leave a soul alive.<br /> <br /> And this chapter of horrors
+      concludes with this<br /> song of victory:<br /> <br /> "So Joshua smote all
+      the country of the hills, and<br /> "of the south, and of the vale, and of
+      the springs,<br /> "and all their kings: he left none remaining, but<br />
+      "utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord<br /> "God of Israel
+      commanded. And Joshua smote<br /> "them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza,
+      and all the<br /> "country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. And all these<br />
+      "kings and their land did Joshua take at one time,<br /> "because the Lord
+      God of Israel fought for Israel."<br /> Was God, at that time, merciful?<br />
+      <br /> 222<br /> <br /> I find, also, in the twenty-first chapter that many<br />
+      Icings met, with their armies, for the purpose of<br /> overwhelming
+      Israel, and the Lord said unto Joshua:<br /> "Be not afraid because of
+      them, for to-morrow about<br /> "this time I will deliver them all slain
+      before Israel.<br /> "I will hough their horses and burn their chariots<br />
+      "with fire." Were animals so treated by the com-<br /> mand of a merciful
+      God?<br /> <br /> Joshua captured Razor, and smote all the souls<br /> that
+      were therein with the edge of the sword, there<br /> was not one left to
+      breathe; and he took all the<br /> cities of all the kings that took up
+      arms against him,<br /> and utterly destroyed all the inhabitants thereof.<br />
+      He took the cattle and spoils as prey unto himself,<br /> and smote every
+      man with the edge of the sword;<br /> and not only so, but left not a human
+      being to<br /> breathe.<br /> <br /> I find the following directions given to
+      the Israel-<br /> ites who were waging a war of conquest. They are<br /> in
+      the twentieth chapter of Deuteronomy, from the<br /> tenth to the
+      eighteenth verses:<br /> <br /> "When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight<br />
+      "against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it<br /> "shall be, if it
+      make thee an answer of peace, and<br /> "open unto thee, then it shall be
+      that all the people<br /> <br /> 223<br /> <br /> "that is found therein shall
+      be tributaries unto thee,<br /> "and they shall serve thee. And if it will
+      make no<br /> "peace with thee, but will war against thee, then<br /> "thou
+      shalt besiege it. And when the Lord thy<br /> "God hath delivered it into
+      thine hands, thou shalt<br /> "smite every male thereof with the edge of
+      the<br /> "sword; but the women, and the little ones, and<br /> "the cattle,
+      and all that is in the city, even the spoil<br /> "thereof, shalt thou take
+      unto thyself; and thou<br /> "shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which
+      the<br /> "Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou<br /> "do unto all
+      the cities which are very far off from<br /> "thee, which are not of the
+      cities of these nations."<br /> It will be seen from this that people could
+      take<br /> their choice between death and slavery, provided<br /> these
+      people lived a good ways from the Israelites.<br /> Now, let us see how
+      they were to treat the inhabit-<br /> ants of the cities near to them:<br />
+      <br /> "But of the cities of these people which the Lord<br /> "thy God doth
+      give thee for an inheritance, thou<br /> "shalt save alive nothing that
+      breatheth. But thou<br /> "shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the
+      Hittites,<br /> "and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites,<br />
+      "the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord thy God<br /> "hath commanded
+      thee."<br /> <br /> 224<br /> <br /> It never occurred to this merciful God to
+      send<br /> missionaries to these people. He built them no<br />
+      schoolhouses, taught them no alphabet, gave them<br /> no book; they were
+      not supplied even with a copy of<br /> the Ten Commandments. He did not say
+      "Reform,"<br /> but "Kill;" not "Educate," but "Destroy." He gave<br /> them
+      no Bible, built them no church, sent them no<br /> preachers. He knew when
+      he made them that he<br /> would have to have them murdered. When he<br />
+      created them he knew that they were not fit to live;<br /> and yet, this is
+      the infinite God who is infinitely<br /> merciful and loves his children
+      better than an earthly<br /> mother loves her babe.<br /> <br /> In order to
+      find just how merciful God is, read the<br /> twenty-eighth chapter of
+      Deuteronomy, and see what<br /> he promises to do with people who do not
+      keep all of<br /> his commandments and all of his statutes. He curses<br />
+      them in their basket and store, in the fruit of their<br /> body, in the
+      fruit of their land, in the increase of their<br /> cattle and sheep. He
+      curses them in the city and in<br /> the field, in their coming in and
+      their going out. He<br /> curses them with pestilence, with consumption,
+      with<br /> fever, with inflammation, with extreme burning, with<br /> sword,
+      with blasting, with mildew. He tells them<br /> that the heavens shall be
+      as brass over their heads<br /> <br /> 225<br /> <br /> and the earth as iron
+      under their feet; that the rain<br /> shall be powder and dust and shall
+      come down on<br /> them and destroy them; that they shall flee seven<br />
+      ways before their enemies; that their carcasses shall<br /> be meat for the
+      fowls of the air, and the beasts of the<br /> earth; that he will smite
+      them with the botch of<br /> Egypt, and with the scab, and with the itch,
+      and with<br /> madness and blindness and astonishment; that he<br /> will
+      make them grope at noonday; that they shall be<br /> oppressed and spoiled
+      evermore; that one shall be-<br /> troth a wife and another shall have her;
+      that they<br /> shall build a house and not dwell in it; plant a vine-<br />
+      yard and others shall eat the grapes; that their<br /> sons and daughters
+      shall be given to their enemies;<br /> that he will make them mad for the
+      sight of their<br /> eyes; that he will smite them in the knees and in the<br />
+      legs with a sore botch that cannot be healed, and<br /> from the sole of
+      the foot to the top of the head;<br /> that they shall be a by-word among
+      all nations; that<br /> they shall sow much seed and gather but little;
+      that<br /> the locusts shall consume their crops; that they shall<br />
+      plant vineyards and drink no wine,&mdash;that they shall<br /> gather
+      grapes, but worms shall eat them; that they<br /> shall raise olives but
+      have no oil; beget sons and<br /> daughters, but they shall go into
+      captivity; that all<br /> <br /> 226<br /> <br /> the trees and fruit of the
+      land shall be devoured by<br /> locusts, and that all these curses shall
+      pursue them<br /> and overtake them, until they be destroyed; that they<br />
+      shall be slaves to their enemies, and be constantly in<br /> hunger and
+      thirst and nakedness, and in want of all<br /> things. And as though this
+      were not enough, the<br /> Lord tells them that he will bring a nation
+      against<br /> them swift as eagles, a nation fierce and savage, that<br />
+      will show no mercy and no favor to old or young,<br /> and leave them
+      neither corn, nor wine, nor oil, nor<br /> flocks, nor herds; and this
+      nation shall besiege them<br /> in their cities until they are reduced to
+      the necessity<br /> of eating the flesh of their own sons and daughters;<br />
+      so that the men would eat their wives and their<br /> children, and women
+      eat their husbands and their<br /> own sons and daughters, and their own
+      babes.<br /> <br /> All these curses God pronounced upon them if they<br />
+      did not observe to do all the words of the law that<br /> were written in
+      his book.<br /> <br /> This same merciful God threatened that he would<br />
+      bring upon them all the diseases of Egypt&mdash;every<br /> sickness and
+      every plague; that he would scatter<br /> them from one end of the earth to
+      the other; that<br /> they should find no rest; that their lives should
+      hang<br /> in perpetual doubt; that in the morning they would<br /> <br />
+      227<br /> <br /> say: Would God it were evening! and in the even-<br /> ing,
+      Would God it were morning! and that he would<br /> finally take them back
+      to Egypt where they should<br /> be again sold for bondmen and bondwomen.<br />
+      <br /> This curse, the foundation of the <i>Anathema<br /> maranatha</i>;
+      this curse, used by the pope of Rome to<br /> prevent the spread of
+      thought; this curse used even<br /> by the Protestant Church; this curse
+      born of barba-<br /> rism and of infinite cruelty, is now said to have<br />
+      issued from the lips of an infinitely merciful God. One<br /> would suppose
+      that Jehovah had gone insane; that<br /> he had divided his kingdom like
+      Lear, and from the<br /> darkness of insanity had launched his curses upon
+      a<br /> world.<br /> <br /> In order that there may be no doubt as to the<br />
+      mercy of Jehovah, read the thirteenth chapter of<br /> Deuteronomy:<br />
+      <br /> "If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy<br /> "son, or thy
+      daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or<br /> "thy friend, which is as thine
+      own soul, entice thee<br /> "secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other
+      gods,<br /> "which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers;<br /> " * * *
+      thou shalt not consent unto him, nor<br /> "hearken unto him; neither shall
+      thine eyes pity him,<br /> "neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou
+      conceal<br /> <br /> 228<br /> <br /> "him; but thou shalt surely kill him:
+      thine hand<br /> "shall be first upon him to put him to death, and<br />
+      "afterwards the hand of all the people; and thou<br /> "shalt stone him
+      with stones that he die, because he<br /> "hath sought to entice thee away
+      from the Lord thy<br /> "God."<br /> <br /> This, according to Mr. Talmage,
+      is a commandment<br /> of the infinite God. According to him, God ordered<br />
+      a man to murder his own son, his own wife, his own<br /> brother, his own
+      daughter, if they dared even to sug-<br /> gest the worship of some other
+      God than Jehovah.<br /> For my part, it is impossible not to despise such<br />
+      a God&mdash;a God not willing that one should worship<br /> what he must.
+      No one can control his admiration,<br /> and if a savage at sunrise falls
+      upon his knees and<br /> offers homage to the great light of the East, he
+      can-<br /> not help it. If he worships the moon, he cannot help<br /> it. If
+      he worships fire, it is because he cannot control<br /> his own spirit. A
+      picture is beautiful to me in spite<br /> of myself. A statue compels the
+      applause of my<br /> brain. The worship of the sun was an exceedingly<br />
+      natural religion, and why should a man or woman be<br /> destroyed for
+      kneeling at the fireside of the world?<br /> <br /> No wonder that this same
+      God, in the very next<br /> chapter of Deuteronomy to that quoted, says to
+      his<br /> <br /> 229<br /> <br /> chosen people: "Ye shall not eat of anything
+      that<br /> "dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger<br />
+      "that is within thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou<br /> "mayest sell
+      it unto an alien: for thou art a holy<br /> "people unto the Lord thy God."<br />
+      <br /> What a mingling of heartlessness and thrift&mdash;the<br /> religion
+      of sword and trade!<br /> <br /> In the seventh chapter of Deuteronomy,
+      Jehovah<br /> gives his own character. He tells the Israelites that<br />
+      there are seven nations greater and mightier than<br /> themselves, but
+      that he will deliver them to his chosen<br /> people, and that they shall
+      smite them and utterly<br /> destroy them; and having some fear that a drop
+      of<br /> pity might remain in the Jewish heart, he says:<br /> <br /> "Thou
+      shalt make no covenant with them, nor<br /> "show mercy unto them. * * *
+      Know therefore<br /> "that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God,<br />
+      "which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that<br /> "love him and keep
+      his commandments to a thousand<br /> "generations, and repayeth them that
+      hate him to<br /> "their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to<br />
+      "him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face."<br /> This is the
+      description which the merciful, long-suffer-<br /> ing Jehovah gives of
+      himself.<br /> <br /> So, he promises great prosperity to the Jews if<br />
+      <br /> 230<br /> <br /> they will only obey his commandments, and says:<br />
+      "And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness,<br /> "and will put
+      none of the evil diseases of Egypt<br /> "upon thee, but will lay them upon
+      all them that<br /> "hate thee. And thou shalt consume all the people<br />
+      "which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine<br /> "eye shall have no
+      pity upon them."<br /> <br /> Under the immediate government of Jehovah,<br />
+      mercy was a crime. According to the law of God,<br /> pity was weakness,
+      tenderness was treason, kindness<br /> was blasphemy, while hatred and
+      massacre were<br /> virtues.<br /> <br /> In the second chapter of
+      Deuteronomy we find<br /> another account tending to prove that Jehovah is
+      a<br /> merciful God. We find that Sihon, king of Heshbon,<br /> would not
+      let the Hebrews pass by him, and the<br /> reason given is, that "the Lord
+      God hardened his<br /> "spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might<br />
+      "deliver him into the hand" of the Hebrews. Sihon,<br /> his heart having
+      been hardened by God, came out<br /> against the chosen people, and God
+      delivered him to<br /> them, and "they smote him, and his sons, and all his<br />
+      "people, and took all his cities, and utterly destroyed<br /> "the men and
+      the women, and the little ones of<br /> "every city: they left none to
+      remain." And in this<br /> <br /> 231<br /> <br /> same chapter this same God
+      promises that the dread<br /> and fear of his chosen people should be "upon
+      all the<br /> "nations that are under the whole heaven," and that<br />
+      "they should "tremble and be in anguish because of"<br /> the Hebrews.<br />
+      <br /> Read the thirty-first chapter of Numbers, and see<br /> how the
+      Midianites were slain. You will find that<br /> "the children of Israel
+      took all the women of Midian<br /> "captives, and their little ones," that
+      they took "all<br /> "their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their
+      goods,"<br /> that they slew all the males, and burnt all their cities<br />
+      and castles with fire, that they brought the captives<br /> and the prey
+      and the spoil unto Moses and Eleazar<br /> the priest; that Moses was wroth
+      with the officers<br /> of his host because they had saved all the women<br />
+      alive, and thereupon this order was given: "Kill<br /> "every male among
+      the little ones, and kill every<br /> "woman, * * * but all the women
+      children<br /> "keep alive for yourselves."<br /> <br /> After this, God
+      himself spake unto Moses, and<br /> said: "Take the sum of the prey that
+      was taken,<br /> "both of man and of beast, thou and Eleazar the<br />
+      "priest * * * and divide the prey into two<br /> "parts, between those who
+      went to war, and between<br /> "all the congregation, and levy a tribute
+      unto the<br /> <br /> 232<br /> <br /> "Lord, one soul of five hundred of the
+      persons,<br /> "and the cattle; take it of their half and give it to<br />
+      "the priest for an offering * * * and of the<br /> "children of Israel's
+      half, take one portion of fifty of<br /> "the persons and the animals and
+      give them unto<br /> "the Levites. * * * And Moses and the priest<br /> "did
+      as the Lord had commanded." It seems that<br /> they had taken six hundred
+      and seventy-five thou-<br /> sand sheep, seventy-two thousand beeves,
+      sixty-one<br /> thousand asses, and thirty-two thousand women<br /> children
+      and maidens. And it seems, by the fortieth<br /> verse, <i>that the Lord's
+      tribute of the maidens was thirty-<br /> two</i>,&mdash;the rest were given
+      to the soldiers and to the<br /> congregation of the Lord.<br /> <br /> Was
+      anything more infamous ever recorded in the<br /> annals of barbarism? And
+      yet we are told that the<br /> Bible is an inspired book, that it is not a
+      cruel book,<br /> and that Jehovah is a being of infinite mercy.<br /> <br />
+      In the twenty-fifth chapter of Numbers we find<br /> that the Israelites
+      had joined themselves unto Baal-<br /> Peor, and thereupon the anger of the
+      Lord was<br /> kindled against them, as usual. No being ever lost<br /> his
+      temper more frequently than this Jehovah. Upon<br /> this particular
+      occasion, "the Lord said unto Moses,<br /> "Take all the heads of the
+      people, and hang them<br /> <br /> 233<br /> <br /> "up before the Lord
+      against the sun, that the fierce<br /> "anger of the Lord may be turned
+      away from Israel."<br /> And thereupon "Moses said unto the judges of
+      Israel,<br /> "Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto<br />
+      "Baal-peor."<br /> <br /> Just as soon as these people were killed, and
+      their<br /> heads hung up before the Lord against the sun, and<br /> a
+      horrible double murder of a too merciful Israelite<br /> and a Midianitish
+      woman, had been committed by<br /> Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, "the
+      plague was stayed<br /> "from the children of Israel." Twenty-four thousand<br />
+      had died. Thereupon, "the Lord spake unto Moses<br /> "and said"&mdash;and
+      it is a very merciful commandment<br /> &mdash;"Vex the Midianites and
+      smite them."<br /> <br /> In the twenty-first chapter of Numbers is more
+      evi-<br /> dence that God is merciful and compassionate.<br /> <br /> The
+      children of Israel had become discouraged.<br /> They had wandered so long
+      in the desert that they<br /> finally cried out: "Wherefore have ye brought
+      us<br /> "up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There<br /> "is no
+      bread, there is no water, and our soul loatheth<br /> "this light bread."
+      Of course they were hungry and<br /> thirsty. Who would not complain under
+      similar cir-<br /> cumstances? And yet, on account of this complaint,<br />
+      the God of infinite tenderness and compassion sent<br /> <br /> 234<br />
+      <br /> serpents among them, and these serpents bit them&mdash;<br /> bit the
+      cheeks of children, the breasts of maidens,<br /> and the withered faces of
+      age. Why would a God<br /> do such an infamous thing? Why did he not, as
+      the<br /> leader of this people, his chosen children, feed them<br />
+      better? Certainly an infinite God had the power<br /> to satisfy their
+      hunger and to quench their thirst.<br /> He who overwhelmed a world with
+      water, certainly<br /> could have made a few brooks, cool and babbling,<br />
+      to follow his chosen people through all their jour-<br /> neying. He could
+      have supplied them with miracu-<br /> lous food.<br /> <br /> How fortunate
+      for the Jews that Jehovah was not<br /> revengeful, that he was so slow to
+      anger, so patient,<br /> so easily pleased. What would they have done had<br />
+      he been exacting, easily incensed, revengeful, cruel,<br /> or
+      blood-thirsty?<br /> <br /> In the sixteenth chapter of Numbers, an account
+      is<br /> given of a rebellion. It seems that Korah, Dathan<br /> and Abiram
+      got tired of Moses and Aaron. They<br /> thought the priests were taking a
+      little too much<br /> upon themselves. So Moses told them to have two<br />
+      hundred and fifty of their men bring their censers<br /> and put incense in
+      them before the Lord, and stand<br /> in the door of the tabernacle of the
+      congregation<br /> <br /> 235<br /> <br /> with Moses and Aaron. That being
+      done, the Lord<br /> appeared, and told Moses and Aaron to separate<br />
+      themselves from the people, that he might consume<br /> them all in a
+      moment. Moses and Aaron, having a<br /> little compassion, begged God not
+      to kill everybody.<br /> The people were then divided, and Dathan and<br />
+      Abiram came out and stood in the door of their<br /> tents with their wives
+      and their sons and their little<br /> children. And Moses said:<br /> <br />
+      "Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent<br /> "me to do all these
+      works; for I have not done them<br /> "of my mine own mind. If these men
+      die the<br /> "common death of all men, or if they be visited<br /> "after
+      the common visitation of all men, then the<br /> "Lord hath not sent me.
+      But if the Lord make a<br /> "new thing, and the earth open her mouth and<br />
+      "swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them,<br /> "and they go
+      down quick into the pit, then ye shall<br /> "understand that these men
+      have provoked the<br /> "Lord." The moment he ceased speaking, "the<br />
+      "ground clave asunder that was under them; and<br /> "the earth opened her
+      mouth and swallowed them up,<br /> "and their houses, and all the men that
+      appertained<br /> "unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that<br />
+      "appertained to them went down alive into the pit,<br /> <br /> 236<br />
+      <br /> "and the earth closed upon them, and they perished<br /> "from among
+      the congregation."<br /> <br /> This, according to Mr. Talmage, was the act
+      of an<br /> exceedingly merciful God, prompted by infinite kind-<br /> ness,
+      and moved by eternal pity. What would he<br /> have done had he acted from
+      motives of revenge?<br /> What would he Jiave done had he been remorse-<br />
+      lessly cruel and wicked?<br /> <br /> In addition to those swallowed by the
+      earth, the<br /> two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense<br />
+      were consumed by "a fire that came out from the<br /> "Lord." And not only
+      this, but the same merciful<br /> Jehovah wished to consume all the people,
+      and he<br /> would have consumed them all, only that Moses pre-<br /> vailed
+      upon Aaron to take a censer and put fire<br /> therein from off the altar
+      of incense and go quickly<br /> to the congregation and make an atonement
+      for them.<br /> He was not quick enough. The plague had already<br /> begun;
+      and before he could possibly get the censers<br /> and incense among the
+      people, fourteen thousand and<br /> seven hundred had died of the plague.
+      How many<br /> more might have died, if Jehovah had not been so<br /> slow
+      to anger and so merciful and tender to his<br /> children, we have no means
+      of knowing.<br /> <br /> In the thirteenth chapter of the same book of<br />
+      <br /> 237<br /> <br /> Numbers, we find that some spies were sent over<br />
+      into the promised land, and that they brought back<br /> grapes and figs
+      and pomegranates, and reported that<br /> the whole land was flowing with
+      milk and honey, but<br /> that the people were strong, that the cities were<br />
+      walled, and that the nations in the promised land<br /> were mightier than
+      the Hebrews. They reported that<br /> all the people they met were men of a
+      great stature,<br /> that they had seen "the giants, the sons of Anak<br />
+      "which come of giants," compared with whom the<br /> Israelites were "in
+      their own sight as grasshoppers,<br /> "and so were we in their sight."
+      Entirely discour-<br /> aged by these reports, "all the congregation lifted
+      up<br /> "their voice and cried, and the people wept that<br /> "night * * *
+      and murmured against Moses and<br /> "against Aaron, and said unto them:
+      Would God<br /> "that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would<br /> "God
+      we had died in this wilderness!" Some of<br /> them thought that it would
+      be better to go back,&mdash;<br /> that they might as well be slaves in
+      Egypt as to be<br /> food for giants in the promised land. They did not<br />
+      want their bones crunched between the teeth of the<br /> sons of Anak.<br />
+      <br /> Jehovah got angry again, and said to Moses:<br /> "How long will
+      these people provoke me? * * *<br /> <br /> 238<br /> <br /> "I will smite
+      them with pestilence, and disinherit<br /> "them." But Moses said: Lord, if
+      you do this,<br /> the Egyptians will hear of it, and they will say that<br />
+      you were not able to bring your people into the<br /> promised land. Then
+      he proceeded to flatter him by<br /> telling him how merciful and
+      long-suffering he had<br /> been. Finally, Jehovah concluded to pardon the<br />
+      people this time, but his pardon depended upon the<br /> violation of his
+      promise, for he said: "They shall<br /> "not see the land which I sware
+      unto their fathers,<br /> "neither shall any of them that provoked me see
+      it;<br /> "but my servant Caleb, * * * him will I bring<br /> "into the
+      land." And Jehovah said to the people:<br /> "Your carcasses shall fall in
+      this wilderness, and all<br /> "that were numbered of you according to your<br />
+      "whole number, from twenty years old and upward,<br /> "which have murmured
+      against me, ye shall not<br /> "come into the land concerning which I sware
+      to<br /> "make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of<br /> "Jephunneh,
+      and Joshua the son of Nun. But your<br /> "little ones, which ye said
+      should be a prey, them<br /> "will I bring in, and they shall know the land<br />
+      "which ye have despised. But as for you, your<br /> "carcasses shall fall
+      in this wilderness. And your<br /> "children shall wander in the wilderness
+      forty<br /> <br /> 239<br /> <br /> "years * * * until your carcasses be
+      wasted in<br /> "the wilderness."<br /> <br /> And all this because the
+      people were afraid of<br /> giants, compared with whom they were but as
+      grass-<br /> hoppers.<br /> <br /> So we find that at one time the people
+      became<br /> exceedingly hungry. They had no flesh to eat.<br /> There were
+      six hundred thousand men of war, and<br /> they had nothing to feed on but
+      manna. They<br /> naturally murmured and complained, and thereupon a<br />
+      wind from the Lord went forth and brought quails<br /> from the sea,
+      (quails are generally found in the sea,)<br /> "and let them fall by the
+      camp, as it were a day's<br /> "journey on this side, and as it were a
+      day's journey<br /> "on the other side, round about the camp, and as it<br />
+      "were two cubits high upon the face of the earth.<br /> "And the people
+      stood up all that day, and all that<br /> "night, and all the next day, and
+      they gathered the<br /> "quails. * * * And while the flesh was yet be-<br />
+      "tween their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of<br /> "the Lord was
+      kindled against the people, and the<br /> "Lord smote the people with a
+      very great plague."<br /> <br /> Yet he is slow to anger, long-suffering,
+      merciful<br /> and just.<br /> <br /> In the thirty-second chapter of Exodus,
+      is the ac-<br /> <br /> 240<br /> <br /> count of the golden calf. It must be
+      borne in mind<br /> that the worship of this calf by the people was before<br />
+      the Ten Commandments had been given to them.<br /> Christians now insist
+      that these commandments must<br /> have been inspired, because no human
+      being could<br /> have constructed them,&mdash;could have conceived of<br />
+      them.<br /> <br /> It seems, according to this account, that Moses had<br />
+      been up in the mount with God, getting the Ten Com-<br /> mandments, and
+      that while he was there the people<br /> had made the golden calf. When he
+      came down and<br /> saw them, and found what they had done, having in<br />
+      his hands the two tables, the work of God, he cast<br /> the tables out of
+      his hands, and broke them beneath<br /> the mount. He then took the calf
+      which they had<br /> made, ground it to powder, strewed it in the water,<br />
+      and made the children of Israel drink of it. And in the<br />
+      twenty-seventh verse we are told what the Lord did:<br /> "Thus saith the
+      Lord God of Israel: Put every man<br /> "his sword by his side, and go in
+      and out from gate<br /> "to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man<br />
+      "his brother, and every man his companion, and<br /> "every man his
+      neighbor. And the children of Levi<br /> "did according to the word of
+      Moses; and there fell<br /> "of the people that day about three thousand
+      men."<br /> <br /> 241<br /> <br /> The reason for this slaughter is thus
+      given: "For<br /> "Moses had said: Consecrate yourselves to-day to<br />
+      "the Lord, even every man upon his son, and upon<br /> " his brother, that
+      he may bestow upon you a blessing<br /> "this day."<br /> <br /> Now, it must
+      be remembered that there had not<br /> been as yet a promulgation of the
+      commandment<br /> u Thou shalt have no other gods before me." This<br /> was
+      a punishment for the infraction of a law before<br /> the law was known&mdash;before
+      the commandment had<br /> been given. Was it cruel, or unjust?<br /> <br />
+      Does the following sound as though spoken by a<br /> God of mercy: "I will
+      make mine arrows drunk<br /> "with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh"?<br />
+      And yet this is but a small part of the vengeance and<br /> destruction
+      which God threatens to his enemies, as<br /> recorded in the thirty-second
+      chapter of the book of<br /> Deuteronomy.<br /> <br /> In the sixty-eighth
+      Psalm is found this merciful<br /> passage: "That thy foot may be dipped in
+      the blood<br /> "of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the<br />
+      "same.<br /> <br /> So we find in the eleventh chapter of Joshua the<br />
+      reason why the Canaanites and other nations made<br /> war upon the Jews.
+      It is as follows: "For it was of<br /> <br /> 242<br /> <br /> "the Lord to
+      harden their hearts that they should<br /> "come against Israel in battle,
+      that he might destroy<br /> "them utterly, and that they might have no
+      favor, but<br /> "that he might destroy them."<br /> <br /> Read the
+      thirtieth chapter of Exodus and you will<br /> find that God gave to Moses
+      a recipe for making<br /> the oil of holy anointment, and in the
+      thirty-second<br /> verse we find that no one was to make any oil like it<br />
+      and in the next verse it is declared that whoever<br /> compounded any like
+      it, or whoever put any of it on<br /> a stranger, should be cut off from
+      the Lord's people.<br /> <br /> In the same chapter, a recipe is given for
+      per-<br /> fumery, and it is declared that whoever shall make<br /> any like
+      it, or that smells like it, shall suffer death.<br /> <br /> In the next
+      chapter, it is decreed that if any one fails<br /> to keep the Sabbath "he
+      shall be surely put to death."<br /> <br /> There are in the Pentateuch
+      hundreds and hun-<br /> dreds of passages showing the cruelty of Jehovah.<br />
+      What could have been more cruel than the flood?<br /> What more heartless
+      than to overwhelm a world?<br /> What more merciless than to cover a
+      shoreless sea<br /> with the corpses of men, women and children?<br /> <br />
+      The Pentateuch is filled with anathemas, with<br /> curses, with words of
+      vengeance, of jealousy, of<br /> hatred, and brutality. By reason of these
+      passages,<br /> <br /> 243<br /> <br /> millions of people have plucked from
+      their hearts the<br /> flowers of pity and justified the murder of women<br />
+      and the assassination of babes.<br /> <br /> In the second chapter of Second
+      Kings we find<br /> that the prophet Elisha was on his way to a place<br />
+      called Bethel, and as he was going, there came forth<br /> little children
+      out of the city and mocked him and<br /> said: "Go up thou bald head; Go up
+      thou bald<br /> "head! And he turned back and looked on them<br /> "and
+      cursed them in the name of the Lord. And<br /> "there came forth two she
+      bears out of the wood and<br /> "tare forty and two children of them."<br />
+      <br /> Of course he obtained his miraculous power from<br /> Jehovah; and
+      there must have been some communi-<br /> cation between Jehovah and the
+      bears. Why did the<br /> bears come? How did they happen to be there?<br />
+      Here is a prophet of God cursing children in the<br /> name of the Lord,
+      and thereupon these children<br /> are torn in fragments by wild beasts.<br />
+      <br /> This is the mercy of Jehovah; and yet I am told<br /> that the Bible
+      has nothing cruel in it; that it preaches<br /> only mercy, justice,
+      charity, peace; that all hearts<br /> are softened by reading it; that the
+      savage nature of<br /> man is melted into tenderness and pity by it, and
+      that<br /> only the totally depraved can find evil in it.<br /> <br /> 244<br />
+      <br /> And so I might go on, page after page, book after<br /> book, in the
+      Old Testament, and describe the cruelties<br /> committed in accordance
+      with the commands of<br /> Jehovah.<br /> <br /> But all the cruelties in the
+      Old Testament are ab-<br /> solute mercies compared with the hell of the
+      New<br /> Testament. In the Old Testament God stops with<br /> the grave. He
+      seems to have been satisfied when he<br /> saw his enemies dead, when he
+      saw their flesh rotting<br /> in the open air, or in the beaks of birds, or
+      in the teeth<br /> of wild beasts. But in the New Testament, ven-<br />
+      geance does not stop with the grave. It begins there,<br /> and stops
+      never. The enemies of Jehovah are to be<br /> pursued through all the ages
+      of eternity. There is to<br /> be no forgiveness&mdash;no cessation, no
+      mercy, nothing<br /> but everlasting pain.<br /> <br /> And yet we are told
+      that the author of hell is a<br /> being of infinite mercy.<br /> <br /> <i>Second</i>;
+      All intelligent Christians will admit that<br /> there are many passages in
+      the Bible that, if found in<br /> the Koran, they would regard as impure
+      and immoral.<br /> <br /> It is not necessary for me to specify the
+      passages,<br /> nor to call the attention of the public to such things.<br />
+      I am willing to trust the judgment of every honest<br /> reader, and the
+      memory of every biblical student.<br /> <br /> 245<br /> <br /> The Old
+      Testament upholds polygamy. That is<br /> infinitely impure. It sanctions
+      concubinage. That<br /> is impure; nothing could or can be worse. Hun-<br />
+      dreds of things are publicly told that should have re-<br /> mained unsaid.
+      No one is made better by reading<br /> the history of Tamar, or the
+      biography of Lot, or<br /> the memoirs of Noah, of Dinah, of Sarah and<br />
+      Abraham, or of Jacob and Leah and Rachel and others<br /> that I do not
+      care to mention. No one is improved<br /> in his morals by reading these
+      things.<br /> <br /> All I mean to say is, that the Bible is like other<br />
+      books produced by other nations in the same stage<br /> of civilization.
+      What one age considers pure, the<br /> next considers impure. What one age
+      may consider<br /> just, the next may look upon as infamous. Civiliza-<br />
+      tion is a growth. It is continually dying, and continu-<br /> ally being
+      born. Old branches rot and fall, new buds<br /> appear. It is a perpetual
+      twilight, and a perpetual<br /> dawn&mdash;the death of the old, and the
+      birth of the new.<br /> <br /> I do not say, throw away the Bible because
+      there<br /> are some foolish passages in it, but I say, throw away<br /> the
+      foolish passages. Don't throw away wisdom<br /> because it is found in
+      company with folly; but do not<br /> say that folly is wisdom, because it
+      is found in its<br /> company. All that is true in the Bible is true
+      whether<br /> <br /> 246<br /> <br /> it is inspired or not. All that is true
+      did not need to<br /> be inspired. Only that which is not true needs the<br />
+      assistance of miracles and wonders. I read the Bible<br /> as I read other
+      books. What I believe to be good,<br /> I admit is good; what I think is
+      bad, I say is bad;<br /> what I believe to be true, I say is true, and what
+      I<br /> believe to be false, I denounce as false.<br /> <br /> <i>Third</i>.
+      Let us see whether there are any contra-<br /> dictions in the Bible.<br />
+      <br /> A little book has been published, called "Self<br /> "Contradictions
+      of the Bible," by J. P. Mendum, of<br /> The Boston Investigator. I find
+      many of the apparent<br /> contradictions of the Bible noted in this book.<br />
+      <br /> We all know that the Pentateuch is filled with the<br /> commandments
+      of God upon the subject of sacrificing<br /> animals. We know that God
+      declared, again and<br /> again, that the smell of burning flesh was a
+      sweet<br /> savor to him. Chapter after chapter is filled with direc-<br />
+      tions how to kill the beasts that were set apart for<br /> sacrifices; what
+      to do with their blood, their flesh and<br /> their fat. And yet, in the
+      seventh chapter of Jeremiah,<br /> all this is expressly denied, in the
+      following language:<br /> "For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded<br />
+      "them in the day that I brought them out of the land<br /> "of Egypt,
+      concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices."<br /> <br /> 247<br /> <br /> And
+      in the sixth chapter of Jeremiah, the same<br /> Jehovah says; "Your burnt
+      offerings are not ac-<br /> "ceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me."<br />
+      <br /> In the Psalms, Jehovah derides the idea of<br /> sacrifices, and
+      says: "Will I eat of the flesh of<br /> "bulls, or drink the blood of
+      goats? Offer unto God<br /> "thanksgiving, and pay thy vows unto the Most<br />
+      "High."<br /> <br /> So I find in Isaiah the following: "Bring no more<br />
+      "vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;<br /> "the new moons
+      and sabbaths, the calling of as-<br /> "semblies, I cannot away with; it is
+      iniquity, even<br /> "the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your<br />
+      "appointed feasts my soul hateth; they are a trouble<br /> "to me; I am
+      weary to bear them." "To what<br /> "purpose is the multitude of your
+      sacrifices unto me?<br /> "saith the Lord. I am full of the burnt offerings
+      of<br /> "rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not<br /> "in the
+      blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.<br /> "When ye come to
+      appear before me, who hath re-<br /> "quired this at your hand?"<br /> <br />
+      So I find in James: "Let no man say when he is<br /> "tempted: I am tempted
+      of God; for God cannot be<br /> "tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any
+      man;"<br /> and yet in the twenty-second chapter of Genesis I<br /> <br />
+      248<br /> <br /> find this: "And it came to pass after these things,<br />
+      "that God did tempt Abraham."<br /> <br /> In Second Samuel we see that he
+      tempted David.<br /> He also tempted Job, and Jeremiah says: "O Lord,<br />
+      "thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived." To<br /> such an extent was
+      Jeremiah deceived, that in the<br /> fourteenth chapter and eighteenth
+      verse we find him<br /> crying out to the Lord: "Wilt thou be altogether<br />
+      "unto me as a liar?"<br /> <br /> So in Second Thessalonians: "For these
+      things<br /> "God shall send them strong delusions, that they<br /> "should
+      believe a lie."<br /> <br /> So in First Kings, twenty-second chapter:
+      "Behold,<br /> "the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all<br />
+      "these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil<br /> "concerning thee."<br />
+      <br /> So in Ezekiel: "And if the prophet be deceived<br /> "when he hath
+      spoken a thing, I, the Lord, have de-<br /> "ceived that prophet."<br />
+      <br /> So I find: "Thou shalt not bear false witness;"<br /> and in the book
+      of Revelation: "All liars shall have<br /> "their part in the lake which
+      burneth with fire and<br /> "brimstone;" yet in First Kings, twenty-second<br />
+      chapter, I find the following: "And the Lord said:<br /> "Who shall
+      persuade Ahab, that he may go up and<br /> <br /> 249<br /> <br /> "fall at
+      Ramoth-Gilead? And one said on this<br /> "manner, and another said on that
+      manner. And<br /> "there came forth a spirit and stood before the Lord,<br />
+      "and said: I will persuade him. And the Lord said<br /> "unto him:
+      Wherewith? And he said: I will go<br /> "forth, and I will be a lying
+      spirit in the mouth of all<br /> "his prophets. And he said: Thou shalt
+      persuade<br /> "him, and prevail also. Go forth, and do so."<br /> <br /> In
+      the Old Testament we find contradictory laws<br /> about the same thing,
+      and contradictory accounts of<br /> the same occurrences.<br /> <br /> In the
+      twentieth chapter of Exodus we find the first<br /> account of the giving
+      of the Ten Commandments. In<br /> the thirty-fourth chapter another account
+      of the same<br /> transaction is given. These two accounts could not<br />
+      have been written by the same person. Read them,<br /> and you will be
+      forced to admit that both of them<br /> cannot by any possibility be true.
+      They differ in so<br /> many particulars, and the commandments themselves<br />
+      are so different, that it is impossible that both can be<br /> true.<br />
+      <br /> So there are two histories of the creation. If you<br /> will read
+      the first and second chapters of Genesis,<br /> you will find two accounts
+      inconsistent with each<br /> other, both of which cannot be true. The first
+      account<br /> <br /> 250<br /> <br /> ends with the third verse of the second
+      chapter of<br /> Genesis. By the first account, man and woman were<br />
+      made at the same time, and made last of all. In the<br /> second account,
+      not to be too critical, all the beasts<br /> of the field were made before
+      Eve was, and Adam<br /> was made before the beasts of the field; whereas in<br />
+      the first account, God made all the animals before he<br /> made Adam. In
+      the first account there is nothing<br /> about the rib or the bone or the
+      side,&mdash;that is only<br /> found in the second account. In the first
+      account,<br /> there is nothing about the Garden of Eden, nothing<br />
+      about the four rivers, nothing about the mist that<br /> went up from the
+      earth and watered the whole face<br /> of the ground; nothing said about
+      making man from<br /> dust; nothing about God breathing into his nostrils<br />
+      the breath of life; yet according to the second ac-<br /> count, the Garden
+      of Eden was planted, and all the<br /> animals were made before Eve was
+      formed. It is<br /> impossible to harmonize the two accounts.<br /> <br />
+      So, in the first account, only the word God is<br /> used&mdash;"God said
+      so and so,&mdash;God did so and so."<br /> In the second account he is
+      called Lord God,&mdash;"the<br /> "Lord God formed man,"&mdash;"the Lord
+      God caused<br /> "it to rain,"&mdash;"the Lord God planted a garden." It<br />
+      is now admitted that the book of Genesis is made up<br /> <br /> 251<br />
+      <br /> of two stories, and it is very easy to take them apart<br /> and show
+      exactly how they were put together.<br /> <br /> So there are two stories of
+      the flood, differing<br /> almost entirely from each other&mdash;that is to
+      say, so<br /> contradictory that both cannot be true.<br /> <br /> There are
+      two accounts of the manner in which<br /> Saul was made king, and the
+      accounts are inconsistent<br /> with each other.<br /> <br /> Scholars now
+      everywhere admit that the copyists<br /> made many changes, pieced out
+      fragments, and made<br /> additions, interpolations, and meaningless
+      repetitions.<br /> It is now generally conceded that the speeches of<br />
+      Elihu, in Job, were interpolated, and most of the<br /> prophecies were
+      made by persons whose names even<br /> are not known.<br /> <br /> The
+      manuscripts of the Old Testament were not<br /> alike. The Greek version
+      differed from the Hebrew,<br /> and there was no generally received text of
+      the Old<br /> Testament until after the beginning of the Christian<br />
+      era. Marks and points to denote vowels were in-<br /> vented probably in
+      the seventh century after Christ;<br /> and whether these marks and points
+      were put in the<br /> proper places, is still an open question. The Alex-<br />
+      andrian version, or what is known as the Septuagint,<br /> translated by
+      seventy-two learned Jews assisted by<br /> <br /> 252<br /> <br /> miraculous
+      power, about two hundred years before<br /> Christ, could not, it is now
+      said, have been translated<br /> from the Hebrew text that we now have.
+      This can<br /> only be accounted for by supposing that we have a<br />
+      different Hebrew text. The early Christians adopted<br /> the Septuagint
+      and were satisfied for a time; but so<br /> many errors were found, and so
+      many were scanning<br /> every word in search of something to assist their<br />
+      peculiar views, that new versions were produced,<br /> and the new versions
+      all differed somewhat from the<br /> Septuagint as well as from each other.
+      These ver-<br /> sions were mostly in Greek. The first Latin Bible<br /> was
+      produced in Africa, and no one has ever found<br /> out which Latin
+      manuscript was original. Many were<br /> produced, and all differed from
+      each other. These<br /> Latin versions were compared with each other and<br />
+      with the Hebrew, and a new Latin version was made<br /> in the fifth
+      century, and the old ones held their own<br /> for about four hundred
+      years, and no one knows<br /> which version was right. Besides, there were
+      Ethi-<br /> opie, Egyptian, Armenian and several other ver-<br /> sions, all
+      differing from each other as well as from all<br /> others. It was not
+      until the fourteenth century that<br /> the Bible was translated into
+      German, and not until<br /> the fifteenth that Bibles were printed in the
+      principal<br /> <br /> 253<br /> <br /> languages of Europe; and most of these
+      Bibles<br /> differed from each other, and gave rise to endless<br />
+      disputes and to almost numberless crimes.<br /> <br /> No man in the world
+      is learned enough, nor has<br /> he time enough, even if he could live a
+      thousand<br /> years, to find what books belonged to and consti-<br /> tuted
+      the Old Testament. He could not ascertain<br /> the authors of the books,
+      nor when they were written,<br /> nor what they mean. Until a man has
+      sufficient<br /> time to do all this, no one can tell whether he be-<br />
+      lieves the Bible or not. It is sufficient, however, to<br /> say that the
+      Old Testament is filled with contradic-<br /> tions as to the number of men
+      slain in battle, as to<br /> the number of years certain kings reigned, as
+      to the<br /> number of a woman's children, as to dates of events,<br /> and
+      as to locations of towns and cities.<br /> <br /> Besides all this, many of
+      its laws are contradictory,<br /> often commanding and prohibiting the same
+      thing.<br /> <br /> The New Testament also is filled with contradic-<br />
+      tions. The gospels do not even agree upon the<br /> terms of salvation.
+      They do not even agree as to<br /> the gospel of Christ, as to the mission
+      of Christ.<br /> They do not tell the same story regarding the be-<br />
+      trayal, the crucifixion, the resurrection or the ascen-<br /> sion of
+      Christ. John is the only one that ever heard<br /> <br /> 254<br /> <br /> of
+      being "born again." The evangelists do not give<br /> the same account of
+      the same miracles, and the<br /> miracles are not given in the same order.
+      They do<br /> not agree even in the genealogy of Christ.<br /> <br /> <i>Fourth</i>.
+      Is the Bible scientific? In my judgment<br /> it is not<br /> <br /> It is
+      unscientific to say that this world was "cre-<br /> "ated that the universe
+      was produced by an infinite<br /> being, who had existed an eternity prior
+      to such<br /> "creation." My mind is such that I cannot possibly<br />
+      conceive of a "creation." Neither can I conceive of<br /> an infinite being
+      who dwelt in infinite space an infi-<br /> nite length of time.<br /> <br />
+      I do not think it is scientific to say that the uni-<br /> verse was made
+      in six days, or that this world is only<br /> about six thousand years old,
+      or that man has only<br /> been upon the earth for about six thousand
+      years.<br /> <br /> If the Bible is true, Adam was the first man. The<br />
+      age of Adam is given, the age of his children, and<br /> the time,
+      according to the Bible, was kept and known<br /> from Adam, so that if the
+      Bible is true, man has only<br /> been in this world about six thousand
+      years. In my<br /> judgment, and in the judgment of every scientific<br />
+      man whose judgment is worth having or quoting,<br /> man inhabited this
+      earth for thousands of ages prior<br /> <br /> 255<br /> <br /> to the
+      creation of Adam. On one point the Bible is<br /> at least certain, and
+      that is, as to the life of Adam.<br /> The genealogy is given, the pedigree
+      is there, and it<br /> is impossible to escape the conclusion that,
+      according<br /> to the Bible, man has only been upon this earth<br /> about
+      six thousand years. There is no chance there<br /> to say "long periods of
+      time," or "geological ages."<br /> There we have the years. And as to the
+      time of the<br /> creation of man, the Bible does not tell the truth.<br />
+      <br /> What is generally called "The Fall of Man" is<br /> unscientific. God
+      could not have made a moral<br /> character for Adam. Even admitting the
+      rest of the<br /> story to be true, Adam certainly had to make char-<br />
+      acter for himself.<br /> <br /> The idea that there never would have been
+      any<br /> disease or death in this world had it not been for the<br />
+      eating of the forbidden fruit is preposterously unsci-<br /> entific.
+      Admitting that Adam was made only six<br /> thousand years ago, death was
+      in the world millions of<br /> years before that time. The old rocks are
+      filled with re-<br /> mains of what were once living and breathing animals.<br />
+      Continents were built up with the petrified corpses of<br /> animals. We
+      know, therefore, that death did not enter<br /> the world because of Adam's
+      sin. We know that life<br /> and death are but successive links in an
+      eternal chain.<br /> <br /> 256<br /> <br /> So it is unscientific to say that
+      thorns and brambles<br /> were produced by Adam's sin.<br /> <br /> It is
+      also unscientific to say that labor was pro-<br /> nounced as a curse upon
+      man. Labor is not a curse.<br /> Labor is a blessing. Idleness is a curse.<br />
+      <br /> It is unscientific to say that the sons of God,<br /> living, we
+      suppose, in heaven, fell in love with the<br /> daughters of men, and that
+      on account of this a<br /> flood was sent upon the earth that covered the<br />
+      highest mountains.<br /> <br /> The whole story of the flood is
+      unscientific, and no<br /> scientific man worthy of the name, believes it.<br />
+      <br /> Neither is the story of the tower of Babel a scien-<br /> tific
+      thing. Does any scientific man believe that<br /> God confounded the
+      language of men for fear they<br /> would succeed in building a tower high
+      enough to<br /> reach to heaven?<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say
+      that angels were in the<br /> habit of walking about the earth, eating veal
+      dressed<br /> with butter and milk, and making bargains about the<br />
+      destruction of cities.<br /> <br /> The story of Lot's wife having been
+      turned into a<br /> pillar of salt is extremely unscientific.<br /> <br /> It
+      is unscientific to say that people at one time lived<br /> to be nearly a
+      thousand years of age. The history<br /> <br /> 257<br /> <br /> of the world
+      shows that human life is lengthening<br /> instead of shortening.<br />
+      <br /> It is unscientific to say that the infinite God<br /> wrestled with
+      Jacob and got the better of him, put-<br /> ting his thigh out of joint.<br />
+      <br /> It is unscientific to say that God, in the likeness of<br /> a flame
+      of fire, inhabited a bush.<br /> <br /> It is unscientific to say that a
+      stick could be<br /> changed into a living snake. Living snakes can not<br />
+      be made out of sticks. There are not the necessary<br /> elements in a
+      stick to make a snake.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say that God
+      changed water<br /> into blood. All the elements of blood are not in<br />
+      water.<br /> <br /> It is unscientific to declare that dust was changed<br />
+      into lice.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say that God caused a thick<br />
+      darkness over the land of Egypt, and yet allowed it<br /> to be light in
+      the houses of the Jews.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say that about
+      seventy people<br /> could, in two hundred and fifteen years increase to<br />
+      three millions.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say that an infinitely
+      good<br /> God would destroy innocent people to get revenge<br /> upon a
+      king.<br /> <br /> 258<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say that slavery
+      was once<br /> right, that polygamy was once a virtue, and that ex-<br />
+      termination was mercy.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to assert that a
+      being of infinite<br /> power and goodness went into partnership with in-<br />
+      sects,&mdash;granted letters of marque and reprisal to<br /> hornets.<br />
+      <br /> It is unscientific to insist that bread was really<br /> rained from
+      heaven.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to suppose that an infinite being<br />
+      spent forty days and nights furnishing Moses with plans<br /> and
+      specifications for a tabernacle, an ark, a mercy seat,<br /> cherubs of
+      gold, a table, four rings, some dishes, some<br /> spoons, one candlestick,
+      several bowls, a few knobs,<br /> seven lamps, some snuffers, a pair of
+      tongs, some cur-<br /> tains, a roof for a tent of rams' skins dyed red, a
+      few<br /> boards, an altar with horns, ash pans, basins and flesh<br />
+      hooks, shovels and pots and sockets of silver and<br /> ouches of gold and
+      pins of brass&mdash;for all of which this<br /> God brought with him
+      patterns from heaven.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to say that when a
+      man commits<br /> a sin, he can settle with God by killing a sheep.<br />
+      <br /> It is not scientific to say that a priest, by laying<br /> his hands
+      on the head of a goat, can transfer the sins<br /> of a people to the
+      animal.<br /> <br /> 259<br /> <br /> Was it scientific to endeavor to
+      ascertain whether<br /> a woman was virtuous or not, by compelling her to<br />
+      drink water mixed with dirt from the floor of the<br /> sanctuary?<br />
+      <br /> Is it scientific to say that a dry stick budded,<br /> blossomed, and
+      bore almonds; or that the ashes of a<br /> red heifer mixed with water can
+      cleanse us of sin;<br /> or that a good being gave cities into the hands of
+      the<br /> Jews in consideration of their murdering all the in-<br />
+      habitants?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to say that an animal saw an angel,<br />
+      and conversed with a man?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to imagine that
+      thrusting a spear<br /> through the body of a woman ever stayed a plague?<br />
+      <br /> Is it scientific to say that a river cut itself in two<br /> and
+      allowed the lower end to run off?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to assert
+      that seven priests blew<br /> seven rams' horns loud enough to blow down
+      the<br /> walls of a city?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to say that the sun
+      stood still in the<br /> midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down for<br />
+      about a whole day, and that the moon also stayed?<br /> <br /> Is it
+      scientifically probable that an angel of the<br /> Lord devoured unleavened
+      cakes and broth with<br /> fire that came out of the end of a stick, as he
+      sat<br /> <br /> 260<br /> <br /> under an oak tree; or that God made known
+      his<br /> will by letting dew fall on wool without wetting the<br /> ground
+      around it; or that an angel of God appeared<br /> to Manoah in the absence
+      of her husband, and that<br /> this angel afterwards went up in a flame of
+      fire, and<br /> as the result of this visit a child was born whose<br />
+      strength was in his hair?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to say that the
+      muscle of a man de-<br /> pended upon the length of his locks?<br /> <br />
+      Is it unscientific to deny that water gushed from a<br /> hollow place in a
+      dry bone?<br /> <br /> Is it evidence of a thoroughly scientific mind to<br />
+      believe that one man turned over a house so large<br /> that three thousand
+      people were on its roof?<br /> <br /> Is it purely scientific to say that a
+      man was once<br /> fed by the birds of the air, who brought him bread<br />
+      and meat every morning and evening, and that after-<br /> ward an angel
+      turned cook and prepared two sup-<br /> pers in one night, for the same
+      prophet, who ate<br /> enough to last him forty days and forty nights?<br />
+      <br /> Is it scientific to say that a river divided because<br /> the water
+      had been struck with a cloak; or that a<br /> man actually went to heaven
+      in a chariot of fire<br /> drawn by horses of fire; or that a being of
+      infinite<br /> mercy would destroy children for laughing at a bald-<br />
+      <br /> 261<br /> <br /> headed prophet; or curse children and childrens<br />
+      children with leprosy for a father's fault; or that he<br /> made iron
+      float in water; or that when one corpse<br /> touched another it came to
+      life; or that the sun went<br /> backward in heaven so that the shadow on a
+      sun-<br /> dial went back ten degrees, as a sign that a miserable<br />
+      barbarian king would get well?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to say that the
+      earth not only<br /> stopped in its rotary motion, but absolutely turned<br />
+      the other way,&mdash;that its motion was reversed simply<br /> as a sign to
+      a petty king?<br /> <br /> Is it scientific to say that Solomon made gold
+      and<br /> silver at Jerusalem as plentiful as stones, when we<br /> know
+      that there were kings in his day who could<br /> have thrown away the value
+      of the whole of Palestine<br /> without missing the amount?<br /> <br /> Is
+      it scientific to say that Solomon exceeded all<br /> the kings of the earth
+      in glory, when his country<br /> was barren, without roads, when his people
+      were<br /> few, without commerce, without the arts, without the<br />
+      sciences, without education, without luxuries?<br /> <br /> According to the
+      Bible, as long as Jehovah attended<br /> to the affairs of the Jews, they
+      had nothing but war,<br /> pestilence and famine; after Jehovah abandoned
+      them,<br /> and the Christians ceased, in a measure, to persecute<br />
+      <br /> 262<br /> <br /> them, the Jews became the most prosperous of people.<br />
+      Since Jehovah in his anger cast them away, they have<br /> produced
+      painters, sculptors, scientists, statesmen,<br /> composers, soldiers and
+      philosophers.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to believe that God ever
+      pre-<br /> vented rain, that he ever caused famine, that he ever<br /> sent
+      locusts to devour the wheat and corn, that he<br /> ever relied on
+      pestilence for the government of man-<br /> kind; or that he ever killed
+      children to get even with<br /> their parents.<br /> <br /> It is not
+      scientific to believe that the king of Egypt<br /> invaded Palestine with
+      seventy thousand horsemen<br /> and twelve hundred chariots of war. There
+      was not,<br /> at that time, a road in Palestine over which a chariot<br />
+      could be driven.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to believe that in a
+      battle between<br /> Jeroboam and Abijah, the army of Abijah slew in<br />
+      one day five hundred thousand chosen men.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific
+      to believe that Zerah, the Ethio-<br /> pian, invaded Palestine with a
+      million of men who<br /> were overthrown and destroyed; or that Jehoshaphat<br />
+      had a standing army of nine hundred and sixty<br /> thousand men.<br />
+      <br /> It is unscientific to believe that Jehovah advertised<br /> for a
+      liar, as is related in Second Chronicles.<br /> <br /> 263<br /> <br /> It is
+      not scientific to believe that fire refused to<br /> burn, or that water
+      refused to wet.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to believe in dreams, in
+      visions,<br /> and in miracles.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to believe
+      that children have<br /> been born without fathers, that the dead have ever<br />
+      been raised to life, or that people have bodily as-<br /> cended to heaven
+      taking their clothes with them.<br /> <br /> It is not scientific to believe
+      in the supernatural.<br /> Science dwells in the realm of fact, in the
+      realm of<br /> demonstration. Science depends upon human ex-<br /> perience,
+      upon observation, upon reason.<br /> <br /> It is unscientific to say that
+      an innocent man can<br /> be punished in place of a criminal, and for a
+      criminal,<br /> and that the criminal, on account of such punishment,<br />
+      can be justified.<br /> <br /> It is unscientific to say that a finite sin
+      deserves<br /> infinite punishment.<br /> <br /> It is unscientific to
+      believe that devils can inhabit<br /> human beings, or that they can take
+      possession of<br /> swine, or that the devil could bodily take a man, or<br />
+      the Son of God, and carry him to the pinnacle of a<br /> temple.<br /> <br />
+      In short, the foolish, the unreasonable, the false,<br /> the miraculous
+      and the supernatural are unscientific.<br /> <br /> 264<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Mr. Talmage gives his reason for<br /> accepting the New Testament, and
+      says: "You<br /> "can trace it right out. Jerome and Eusebius in the<br />
+      "first century, and Origen in the second century,<br /> "gave lists of the
+      writers of the New Testament.<br /> "These lists correspond with our list
+      of the writers<br /> "of the New Testament, showing that precisely as<br />
+      "we have it, they had it in the third and fourth cen-<br /> "turies. Where
+      did they get it? From Iren&aelig;us.<br /> "Where did he get it? From
+      Polycarp. Where did<br /> "Polycarp get it? From Saint John, who was a per-<br />
+      "sonal associate of Jesus. The line is just as clear<br /> "as anything
+      ever was clear." How do you under-<br /> stand this matter, and has Mr.
+      Talmage stated the<br /> facts?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Let us examine
+      first the witnesses pro-<br /> duced by Mr. Talmage. We will also call
+      attention<br /> to the great principle laid down by Mr. Talmage for<br />
+      the examination of evidence,&mdash;that where a witness<br /> is found
+      false in one particular, his entire testimony<br /> must be thrown away.<br />
+      <br /> Eusebius was born somewhere about two hundred<br /> and seventy years
+      after Christ. After many vicissi-<br /> tudes he became, it is said, the
+      friend of Constantine.<br /> He made an oration in which he extolled the
+      virtues<br /> <br /> 265<br /> <br /> of this murderer, and had the honor of
+      sitting at the<br /> right hand of the man who had shed the blood of his<br />
+      wife and son. In the great controversy with regard<br /> to the position
+      that Christ should occupy in the Trinity,<br /> he sided with Arius, "and
+      lent himself to the perse-<br /> "cution of the orthodox with Athanasius."
+      He in-<br /> sisted that Jesus Christ was not the same as God,<br /> and
+      that he was not of equal power and glory. Will<br /> Mr. Talmage admit that
+      his witness told the truth in<br /> this? "He would not even call the Son
+      co-eternal<br /> "with God."<br /> <br /> Eusebius must have been an
+      exceedingly truthful<br /> man. He declared that the tracks of Pharaoh's
+      chariots<br /> were in his day visible upon the shores of the Red<br /> Sea;
+      that these tracks had been through all the years<br /> miraculously
+      preserved from the action of wind and<br /> wave, as a supernatural
+      testimony to the fact that<br /> God miraculously overwhelmed Pharaoh and
+      his<br /> hosts.<br /> <br /> Eusebius also relates that when Joseph and Mary<br />
+      arrived in Eygpt they took up their abode in Hermopolis,<br /> <br /> a city
+      of Theb&aelig;us, in which was the superb<br /> temple of Serapis. When
+      Joseph and Mary entered<br /> the temple, not only the great idol, but all
+      the lesser<br /> idols fell down before him.<br /> <br /> 266<br /> <br /> "It
+      is believed by the learned Dr. Lardner, that<br /> "Eusebius was the one
+      guilty of the forgery in the<br /> "passage found in Josephus concerning
+      Christ. Un-<br /> "blushing falsehoods and literary forgeries of the<br />
+      "vilest character darkened the pages of his historical<br /> "writings."
+      (Waites History.)<br /> <br /> From the same authority I learn that Eusebius<br />
+      invented an eclipse, and some earthquakes, to agree<br /> with the account
+      of the crucifixion. It is also be-<br /> lieved that Eusebius quoted from
+      works that never<br /> existed, and that he pretended a work had been<br />
+      written by Porphyry, entitled: "The Philosophy of<br /> "Oracles," and then
+      quoted from it for the purpose<br /> of proving the truth of the Christian
+      religion.<br /> <br /> The fact is, Eusebius was utterly destitute of truth.<br />
+      He believed, as many still believe, that he could<br /> please God by the
+      fabrication of lies.<br /> <br /> Iren&aelig;us lived somewhere about the
+      end of the<br /> second century. "Very little is known of his early<br />
+      "history, and the accounts given in various biogra-<br /> "phies are for
+      the most part conjectural." The<br /> writings of Iren&aelig;us are known
+      to us principally<br /> through Eusebius, and we know the value of his<br />
+      testimony.<br /> <br /> Now, if we are to take the testimony of Iren&aelig;us,<br />
+      <br /> 267<br /> <br /> why not take it? He says that the ministry of Christ<br />
+      lasted for twenty years, and that Christ was fifty years<br /> old at the
+      time of his crucifixion. He also insisted<br /> that the "Gospel of Paul"
+      was written by Luke, "a<br /> "statement made to give sanction to the
+      gospel of<br /> "Luke."<br /> <br /> Iren&aelig;us insisted that there were
+      four gospels, that<br /> there must be, and "he speaks frequently of these<br />
+      "gospels, and argues that they should be four in<br /> "number, neither
+      more nor less, because there are<br /> "four universal winds, and four
+      quarters of the<br /> "world;" and he might have added: because<br />
+      donkeys have four legs.<br /> <br /> These facts can be found in "The
+      History of the<br /> "Christian Religion to A. D. 200," by Charles B.<br />
+      Waite,&mdash;a book that Mr. Talmage ought to read.<br /> <br /> According
+      to Mr. Waite, Iren&aelig;us, in the thirty-<br /> third chapter of his
+      fifth book, <i>Adversus H&aelig;reses</i>,<br /> cites from Papias the
+      following sayings of Christ:<br /> "The days will come in which vines shall
+      grow<br /> "which shall have ten thousand branches, and on<br /> "each
+      branch ten thousand twigs, and in each twig<br /> "ten thousand shoots, and
+      in each shoot ten thousand<br /> "clusters, and in every one of the
+      clusters ten<br /> "thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed<br />
+      <br /> 268<br /> <br /> "will give five and twenty metrets of wine." Also<br />
+      that "one thousand million pounds of clear, pure, fine<br /> "flour will be
+      produced from one grain of wheat."<br /> Iren&aelig;us adds that "these
+      things were borne witness<br /> "to by Papias the hearer of John and the
+      companion<br /> "of Polycarp."<br /> <br /> Is it possible that the eternal
+      welfare of a human<br /> being depends upon believing the testimony of
+      Poly-<br /> carp and Iren&aelig;us? Are people to be saved or lost<br /> on
+      the reputation of Eusebius? Suppose a man is<br /> firmly convinced that
+      Polycarp knew nothing about<br /> Saint John, and that Saint John knew
+      nothing about<br /> Christ,&mdash;what then? Suppose he is convinced that<br />
+      Eusebius is utterly unworthy of credit,&mdash;what then?<br /> Must a man
+      believe statements that he has every<br /> reason to think are false?<br />
+      <br /> The question arises as to the witnesses named by<br /> Mr. Talmage,
+      whether they were competent to decide<br /> as to the truth or falsehood of
+      the gospels. We have<br /> the right to inquire into their mental traits
+      for the<br /> purpose of giving only due weight to what they have<br />
+      said.<br /> <br /> Mr. Bronson C. Keeler is the author of a book<br />
+      called: "A Short History of the Bible." I avail<br /> myself of a few of
+      the facts he has there collected. I<br /> <br /> 269<br /> <br /> find in this
+      book, that Iren&aelig;us, Clement and Origen<br /> believed in the fable of
+      the Phoenix, and insisted that<br /> God produced the bird on purpose to
+      prove the<br /> probability of the resurrection of the body. Some<br /> of
+      the early fathers believed that the hyena changed<br /> its sex every year.
+      Others of them gave as a reason<br /> why good people should eat only
+      animals with a<br /> cloven foot, the fact that righteous people lived not<br />
+      only in this world, but had expectations in the next.<br /> They also
+      believed that insane people were pos-<br /> sessed by devils; that angels
+      ate manna; that some<br /> angels loved the daughters of men and fell; that
+      the<br /> pains of women in childbirth, and the fact that ser-<br /> pents
+      crawl on their bellies, were proofs that the<br /> account of the fall, as
+      given in Genesis, is true; that<br /> the stag renewed its youth by eating
+      poisonous<br /> snakes; that eclipses and comets were signs of God's<br />
+      anger; that volcanoes were openings into hell; that<br /> demons blighted
+      apples; that a corpse in a cemetery<br /> moved to make room for another
+      corpse to be placed<br /> beside it. Clement of Alexandria believed that
+      hail<br /> storms, tempests and plagues were caused by demons.<br /> He also
+      believed, with Mr. Talmage, that the events<br /> in the life of Abraham
+      were typical and prophetical<br /> of arithmetic and astronomy.<br /> <br />
+      270<br /> <br /> Origen, another of the witnesses of Mr. Talmage,<br /> said
+      that the sun, moon and stars were living crea-<br /> tures, endowed with
+      reason and free will, and occa-<br /> sionally inclined to sin. That they
+      had free will, he<br /> proved by quoting from Job; that they were rational<br />
+      creatures, he inferred from the fact that they moved.<br /> The sun, moon
+      and stars, according to him, were<br /> "subject to vanity," and he
+      believed that they prayed<br /> to God through his only begotten son.<br />
+      <br /> These intelligent witnesses believed that the blight-<br /> ing of
+      vines and fruit trees, and the disease and de-<br /> struction that came
+      upon animals and men, were all<br /> the work of demons; but that when they
+      had entered<br /> into men, the sign of the cross would drive them out.<br />
+      They derided the idea that the earth is round, and<br /> one of them said:
+      "About the antipodes also, one<br /> "can neither hear nor speak without
+      laughter. It is<br /> "asserted as something serious that we should be-<br />
+      "lieve that there are men who have their feet oppo-<br /> "site to ours.
+      The ravings of Anaxagoras are more<br /> "tolerable, who said that snow was
+      black."<br /> <br /> Concerning these early fathers, Professor Davidson,<br />
+      as quoted by Mr. Keeler, uses the following lan-<br /> guage: "Of the three
+      fathers who contributed<br /> "most to the growth of the canon, Iren&aelig;us
+      was<br /> <br /> 271<br /> <br /> "credulous and blundering; Tertullian
+      passionate<br /> "and one-sided; and Clement of Alexandria, im-<br /> "bued
+      with the treasures of Greek wisdom, was<br /> "mainly occupied with
+      ecclesiastical ethics. Their<br /> "assertions show both ignorance and
+      exaggeration."<br /> These early fathers relied upon by Mr. Talmage,<br />
+      quoted from books now regarded as apocryphal&mdash;<br /> books that have
+      been thrown away by the church<br /> and are no longer considered as of the
+      slightest<br /> authority. Upon this subject I again quote Mr.<br /> Keeler:
+      "Clement quoted the 'Gospel according to<br /> "'the Hebrews,' which is now
+      thrown away by the<br /> "church; he also quoted from the Sibylline books<br />
+      "and the Pentateuch in the same sentence. Origen<br /> "frequently cited
+      the Gospel of the Hebrews. Jerome<br /> "did the same, and Clement believed
+      in the 'Gospel<br /> "'according to the Egyptians.' The Shepherd of<br />
+      "Hermas, a book in high repute in the early church,<br /> "and one which
+      distinctly claims to have been<br /> "inspired, was quoted by Iren&aelig;us
+      as Scripture.<br /> "Clement of Alexandria said it was a divine revela-<br />
+      "tion. Origen said it was divinely inspired, and<br /> "quoted it as Holy
+      Scripture at the same time that<br /> "he cited the Psalms and Epistles of
+      Paul. Jerome<br /> "quoted the 'Wisdom of Jesus, the Son of Sirach,'<br />
+      <br /> 272<br /> <br /> "as divine Scripture. Origen quotes the 'Wisdom<br />
+      "of Solomon' as the 'Word of God' and 'the<br /> "'words of Christ
+      himself.' Eusebius of C&aelig;sarea<br /> "cites it as a * Divine Oracle,'
+      and St. Chrysostom<br /> "used it as Scripture. So Eusebius quotes the<br />
+      "thirteenth chapter of Daniel as Scripture, but as a<br /> "matter of fact,
+      Daniel has not a thirteenth chapter,&mdash;<br /> "the church has taken it
+      away. Clement spoke of<br /> "the writer of the fourth book of Esdras as a
+      prophet;<br /> "he thought Baruch as much the word of God as<br /> "any
+      other book, and he quotes it as divine Scripture.<br /> "Clement cites
+      Barnabas as an apostle. Origen<br /> "quotes from the Epistle of Barnabas,
+      calls it 'Holy<br /> " 'Scripture,' and places it on a level with the
+      Psalms<br /> "and the Epistles of Paul; and Clement of Alexan-<br /> "dria
+      believed in the 'Epistle of Barnabas,' and the<br /> "'Revelation, of
+      Peter,' and wrote comments upon<br /> "these holy books."<br /> <br />
+      Nothing can exceed the credulity of the early<br /> fathers, unless it may
+      be their ignorance. They be-<br /> lieved everything that was miraculous.
+      They believed<br /> everything except the truth. Anything that really<br />
+      happened was considered of no importance by them.<br /> They looked for
+      wonders, miracles, and monstrous<br /> things, and&mdash;generally found
+      them. They revelled<br /> <br /> 273<br /> <br /> in the misshapen and the
+      repulsive. They did not<br /> think it wrong to swear falsely in a good
+      cause.<br /> They interpolated, forged, and changed the records to<br />
+      suit themselves, for the sake of Christ. They quoted<br /> from persons who
+      never wrote. They misrepresented<br /> those who had written, and their
+      evidence is abso-<br /> lutely worthless. They were ignorant, credulous,<br />
+      mendacious, fanatical, pious, unreasonable, bigoted,<br /> hypocritical,
+      and for the most part, insane. Read the<br /> book of Revelation, and you
+      will agree with me that<br /> nothing that ever emanated from a madhouse
+      can<br /> more than equal it for incoherence. Most of the<br /> writings of
+      the early fathers are of the same kind.<br /> <br /> As to Saint John, the
+      real truth is, that we know<br /> nothing certainly of him. We do not know
+      that he<br /> ever lived.<br /> <br /> We know nothing certainly of Jesus
+      Christ. We<br /> know nothing of his infancy, nothing of his youth,<br />
+      and we are not sure that such a person ever existed.<br /> <br /> We know
+      nothing of Polycarp. We do not know<br /> where he was born, or where, or
+      how he died. We<br /> know nothing for certain about Iren&aelig;us. All the<br />
+      names quoted by Mr. Talmage as his witnesses<br /> are surrounded by clouds
+      and doubts, by mist and<br /> darkness. We only know that many of their<br />
+      <br /> 274<br /> <br /> statements are false, and do not know that any of<br />
+      them are true.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you think of the
+      following state-<br /> ment by Mr. Talmage: "Oh, I have to tell you that no<br />
+      "man ever died for a lie cheerfully and triumphantly"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      There was a time when men "cheerfully<br /> "and triumphantly died" in
+      defence of the doctrine<br /> of the "real presence" of God in the wafer
+      and wine.<br /> Does Mr. Talmage believe in the doctrine of "tran-<br />
+      "substantiation"? Yet hundreds have died "cheer-<br /> "fully and
+      triumphantly" for it. Men have died for<br /> the idea that baptism by
+      immersion is the only<br /> scriptural baptism. Did they die for a lie? If
+      not,<br /> is Mr. Talmage a Baptist?<br /> <br /> Giordano Bruno was an
+      atheist, yet he perished at<br /> the stake rather than retract his
+      opinions. He did<br /> not expect to be welcomed by angels and by God.<br />
+      He did not look for a crown of glory. He expected<br /> simply death and
+      eternal extinction. Does the fact<br /> that he died for that belief prove
+      its truth?<br /> <br /> Thousands upon thousands have died in defence of<br />
+      the religion of Mohammed. Was Mohammed an im-<br /> postor? Thousands have
+      welcomed death in defence<br /> of the doctrines of Buddha. Is Buddhism
+      true?<br /> <br /> 275<br /> <br /> So I might make a tour of the world, and
+      of all<br /> ages of human history, and find that millions and<br />
+      millions have died "cheerfully and triumphantly" in<br /> defence of their
+      opinions. There is not the slightest<br /> truth in Mr. Talmage's
+      statement.<br /> <br /> A little while ago, a man shot at the Czar of
+      Russia.<br /> On the day of his execution he was asked if he<br /> wished
+      religious consolation. He replied that he<br /> believed in no religion.
+      What did that prove? It<br /> proved only the man's honesty of opinion. All
+      the<br /> martyrs in the world cannot change, never did<br /> change, a
+      falsehood into a truth, nor a truth into<br /> a falsehood. Martyrdom
+      proves nothing but the<br /> sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty and
+      mean-<br /> ness of his murderers. Thousands and thousands of<br /> people
+      have imagined that they knew things, that<br /> they were certain, and have
+      died rather than retract<br /> their honest beliefs.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage
+      now says that he knows all about the<br /> Old Testament, that the
+      prophecies were fulfilled,<br /> and yet he does not know when the
+      prophecies were<br /> made&mdash;whether they were made before or after the<br />
+      fact. He does not know whether the destruction of<br /> Babylon was told
+      before it happened, or after. He<br /> knows nothing upon the subject. He
+      does not know<br /> <br /> 276<br /> <br /> who made the pretended prophecies.
+      He does not<br /> know that Isaiah, or Jeremiah, or Habakkuk, or<br /> Hosea
+      ever lived in this world. He does not know<br /> who wrote a single book of
+      the Old Testament. He<br /> knows nothing on the subject. He believes in
+      the<br /> inspiration of the Old Testament because ancient<br /> cities
+      finally fell into decay&mdash;were overrun and de-<br /> stroyed by
+      enemies, and he accounts for the fact that<br /> the Jew does not lose his
+      nationality by saying that<br /> the Old Testament is true.<br /> <br /> The
+      Jews have been persecuted by the Christians,<br /> and they are still
+      persecuted by them; and Mr. Tal-<br /> mage seems to think that this
+      persecution was a part<br /> of Gods plan, that the Jews might, by
+      persecution,<br /> be prevented from mingling with other nationalities,<br />
+      and so might stand, through the instrumentality of<br /> perpetual hate and
+      cruelty, the suffering witnesses of<br /> the divine truth of the Bible.<br />
+      <br /> The Jews do not testify to the truth of the Bible,<br /> but to the
+      barbarism and inhumanity of Christians&mdash;<br /> to the meanness and
+      hatred of what we are pleased<br /> to call the "civilized world." They
+      testify to the fact<br /> that nothing so hardens the human heart as
+      religion.<br /> <br /> There is no prophecy in the Old Testament fore-<br />
+      telling the coming of Jesus Christ. There is not one<br /> <br /> 277<br />
+      <br /> word in the Old Testament referring to him in any<br /> way&mdash;not
+      one word. The only way to prove this<br /> is to take your Bible, and
+      wherever you find these<br /> words: "That it might be fulfilled," and
+      "which<br /> "was spoken," turn to the Old Testament and<br /> find what was
+      written, and you will see that it had<br /> not the slightest possible
+      reference to the thing re-<br /> counted in the New Testament&mdash;not the
+      slightest.<br /> <br /> Let us take some of the prophecies of the Bible,<br />
+      and see how plain they are, and how beautiful they<br /> are. Let us see
+      whether any human being can tell<br /> whether they have ever been
+      fulfilled or not.<br /> <br /> Here is a vision of Ezekiel: "I looked, and
+      be-<br /> "hold a whirlwind came out of the north, a great<br /> "cloud, and
+      a fire infolding itself, and a brightness<br /> "was about it, and out of
+      the midst thereof as the<br /> "color of amber, out of the midst of the
+      fire. Also<br /> "out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four<br />
+      "living creatures. And this was their appearance;<br /> "they had the
+      likeness of a man. And every one<br /> "had four faces, and every one had
+      four wings.<br /> "And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of<br />
+      "their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they<br /> "sparkled
+      like the color of burnished brass. And<br /> "they had the hands of a man
+      under their wings on<br /> <br /> 278<br /> <br /> "their four sides; and they
+      four had their faces and<br /> "their wings. Their wings were joined one to<br />
+      "another; they turned not when-they went; they<br /> "went every one
+      straight forward. As for the like-<br /> "ness of their faces, they four
+      had the face of a man,<br /> "and the face of a lion, on the right side:
+      and they<br /> "four had the face of an ox on the left side; they<br />
+      "four also had the face of an eagle.<br /> <br /> "Thus were their faces:
+      and their wings were<br /> "stretched upward; two wings of every one were<br />
+      "joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.<br /> "And they went
+      every one straight forward: whither<br /> "the spirit was to go, they went;
+      and they turned not<br /> "when they went.<br /> <br /> "As for the likeness
+      of the living creatures, their<br /> "appearance was like burning coals of
+      fire, and like<br /> "the appearance of lamps: it went up and down<br />
+      "among the living creatures; and the fire was bright,<br /> "and out of the
+      fire went forth lightning. And the<br /> "living creatures ran and returned
+      as the appearance<br /> "of a flash of lightning.<br /> <br /> "Now as I
+      beheld the living creatures, behold one<br /> "wheel upon the earth by the
+      living creatures, with<br /> "his four faces. The appearance of the wheels
+      and<br /> "their work was like unto the color of a beryl: and<br /> <br />
+      279<br /> <br /> "they four had one likeness: and their appearance<br /> "and
+      their work was as it were a wheel in the middle<br /> "of a wheel. When
+      they went, they went upon<br /> "their four sides: and they turned not when
+      they<br /> "went. As for their rings, they were so high that<br /> "they
+      were dreadful; and their rings were full of<br /> "eyes round about them
+      four. And when the living<br /> "creatures went, the wheels went by them:
+      and<br /> "when the living creatures were lifted up from the<br /> "earth,
+      the wheels were lifted up. Whithersoever<br /> "the spirit was to go, they
+      went, thither was their<br /> "spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up
+      over<br /> "against them: for the spirit of the living creature<br /> "was
+      in the wheels. When those went, these went;<br /> "and when those stood,
+      these stood; and when those<br /> "were lifted up from the earth, the
+      wheels were<br /> "lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the<br />
+      "living creature was in the wheels. And the like-<br /> "ness of the
+      firmament upon the heads of the living<br /> "creature was as the color of
+      the terrible crystal,<br /> "stretched forth over their heads above. And
+      under<br /> "the firmament were their wings straight, the one<br /> "toward
+      the other; every one had two, which<br /> "covered on this side, and every
+      one had two,<br /> "which covered on that side, their bodies."<br /> <br />
+      280<br /> <br /> Is such a vision a prophecy? Is it calculated<br /> to
+      convey the slightest information? If so, what?<br /> <br /> So, the
+      following vision of the prophet Daniel is<br /> exceedingly important and
+      instructive:<br /> <br /> "Daniel spake and said: I saw in my vision by<br />
+      "night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven<br /> "strove upon the
+      great sea. And four great beasts<br /> "came up from the sea, diverse one
+      from another.<br /> "The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:<br />
+      "I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it<br /> "was lifted up
+      from the earth, and made stand upon<br /> "the feet as a man, and a man's
+      heart was given to<br /> "it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a<br />
+      "bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had<br /> "three ribs in
+      the mouth of it between the teeth of<br /> "it: and they said thus unto it,
+      Arise, devour much<br /> "flesh.<br /> <br /> "After this I beheld, and lo
+      another, like a leopard,<br /> "which had upon the back of it four wings of
+      a fowl;<br /> "the beast had also four heads, and dominion was<br /> "given
+      to it.<br /> <br /> "After this I saw in the night visions, and behold<br />
+      "a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong ex-<br /> "ceedingly;
+      and it had great iron teeth; it devoured<br /> "and brake in pieces, and
+      stamped the residue with<br /> <br /> 281<br /> <br /> "the feet of it; and it
+      was diverse from all the beasts<br /> "that were before it, and it had ten
+      horns. I con-<br /> "sidered the horns, and, behold, there came up<br />
+      "among them another little horn, before whom<br /> "there were three of the
+      first horns plucked up by<br /> "the roots: and behold, in this horn were
+      eyes like<br /> "the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great<br /> "things."<br />
+      <br /> I have no doubt that this prophecy has been liter-<br /> ally
+      fulfilled, but I am not at present in condition to<br /> give the time,
+      place, or circumstances.<br /> <br /> A few moments ago, my attention was
+      called to<br /> the following extract from <i>The New York Herald</i> of<br />
+      the thirteenth of March, instant:<br /> <br /> "At the Fifth Avenue Baptist
+      Church, Dr. Armi-<br /> "tage took as his text, 'A wheel in the middle of a<br />
+      "'wheel'&mdash;Ezekiel, i., 16. Here, said the preacher,<br /> "are three
+      distinct visions in one&mdash;the living crea-<br /> "tures, the moving
+      wheels and the fiery throne. We<br /> "have time only to stop the wheels of
+      this mystic<br /> "chariot of Jehovah, that we may hold holy converse<br />
+      "with Him who rides upon the wings of the wind.<br /> "In this vision of
+      the prophet we have a minute and<br /> "amplified account of these
+      magnificent symbols or<br /> "hieroglyphics, this wondrous machinery which
+      de-<br /> <br /> 282<br /> <br /> "notes immense attributes and agencies and
+      voli-<br /> "tions, passing their awful and mysterious course of<br />
+      "power and intelligence in revolution after revolu-<br /> "tion of the
+      emblematical mechanism, in steady and<br /> "harmonious advancement to the
+      object after which<br /> "they are reaching. We are compelled to look<br />
+      "upon the whole as symbolical of that tender and<br /> "endearing
+      providence of which Jesus spoke when<br /> "He said, 'The very hairs of
+      your head are num-<br /> "* bered.'"<br /> <br /> Certainly, an ordinary
+      person, not having been<br /> illuminated by the spirit of prophecy, would
+      never<br /> have even dreamed that there was the slightest re-<br /> ference
+      in Ezekiel's vision to anything like counting<br /> hairs. As a
+      commentator, the Rev. Dr. Armitage<br /> has no equal; and, in my judgment,
+      no rival. He<br /> has placed himself beyond the reach of ridicule. It<br />
+      is impossible to say anything about his sermon as<br /> laughable as his
+      sermon.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have you no confidence in any pro-<br />
+      phecies? Do you take the ground that there never<br /> has been a human
+      being who could predict the<br /> future?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I admit
+      that a man of average intelli-<br /> <br /> 283<br /> <br /> gence knows that
+      a certain course, when pursued<br /> long enough, will bring national
+      disaster, and it is<br /> perfectly safe to predict the downfall of any and<br />
+      every country in the world. In my judgment,<br /> nations, like
+      individuals, have an average life.<br /> Every nation is mortal. An
+      immortal nation cannot<br /> be constructed of mortal individuals. A nation
+      has<br /> a reason for existing, and that reason sustains the<br /> same
+      relation to the nation that the acorn does to<br /> the oak. The nation
+      will attain its growth&mdash;other<br /> things being equal. It will reach
+      its manhood and<br /> its prime, but it will sink into old age, and at last<br />
+      must die. Probably, in a few thousand years, men<br /> will be able to
+      calculate the average life of nations,<br /> as they now calculate the
+      average life of persons.<br /> There has been no period since the morning
+      of his-<br /> tory until now, that men did not know of dead and<br /> dying
+      nations. There has always been a national<br /> cemetery. Poland is dead,
+      Turkey is dying. In<br /> every nation are the seeds of dissolution. Not
+      only<br /> nations die, but races of men. A nation is born,<br /> becomes
+      powerful, luxurious, at last grows weak, is<br /> overcome, dies, and
+      another takes its place, In this<br /> way civilization and barbarism, like
+      day and night,<br /> alternate through all of history's years.<br /> <br />
+      284<br /> <br /> In every nation there are at least two classes of<br /> men:
+      First, the enthusiastic, the patriotic, who be-<br /> lieve that the nation
+      will live forever,&mdash;that its flag<br /> will float while the earth has
+      air; Second, the owls<br /> and ravens and croakers, who are always
+      predicting<br /> disaster, defeat, and death. To the last class belong<br />
+      the Jeremiahs, Ezekiels, and Isaiahs of the Jews.<br /> They were always
+      predicting the downfall of Jeru-<br /> salem. They revelled in defeat and
+      captivity. They<br /> loved to paint the horrors of famine and war. For<br />
+      the most part, they were envious, hateful, misan-<br /> thropic and unjust.<br />
+      <br /> There seems to have been a war between church<br /> and state. The
+      prophets were endeavoring to pre-<br /> serve the ecclesiastical power.
+      Every king who would<br /> listen to them, was chosen of God. He instantly<br />
+      became the model of virtue, and the prophets assured<br /> him that he was
+      in the keeping of Jehovah. But if<br /> the king had a mind of his own, the
+      prophets im-<br /> mediately called down upon him all the curses of<br />
+      heaven, and predicted the speedy destruction of his<br /> kingdom.<br />
+      <br /> If our own country should be divided, if an empire<br /> should rise
+      upon the ruins of the Republic, it would<br /> be very easy to find that
+      hundreds and thousands of<br /> <br /> 285<br /> <br /> people had foretold
+      that very thing. If you will read<br /> the political speeches of the last
+      twenty-two years,<br /> you will find prophecies to fit any possible future<br />
+      state of affairs in our country. No matter what<br /> happens, you will
+      find that somebody predicted it.<br /> If the city of London should lose
+      her trade, if the<br /> Parliament house should become the abode of moles<br />
+      and bats, if "the New Zealander should sit upon the<br /> "ruins of London
+      Bridge," all these things would be<br /> simply the fulfillment of
+      prophecy. The fall of every<br /> nation under the sun has been predicted
+      by hundreds<br /> and thousands of people.<br /> <br /> The prophecies of the
+      Old Testament can be made<br /> to fit anything that may happen, or that
+      may not<br /> happen. They will apply to the death of a king, or<br /> to
+      the destruction of a people,&mdash;to the loss of com-<br /> merce, or the
+      discovery of a continent. Each pro-<br /> phecy is a jugglery of words, of
+      figures, of symbols,<br /> so put together, so used, so interpreted, that
+      they<br /> can mean anything, everything, or nothing.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you see anything "prophetic" in<br /> the fate of the Jewish people
+      themselves? Do you<br /> think that God made the Jewish people wanderers,
+      so<br /> that they might be perpetual witnesses to the truth<br /> of the
+      Scriptures?<br /> <br /> 286<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I cannot believe that
+      an infinitely good<br /> God would make anybody a wanderer. Neither can<br />
+      I believe that he would keep millions of people with-<br /> out country and
+      without home, and allow them to be<br /> persecuted for thousands of years,
+      simply that they<br /> might be used as witnesses. Nothing could be more<br />
+      absurdly cruel than this.<br /> <br /> The Christians justify their
+      treatment of the Jews<br /> on the ground that they are simply fulfilling
+      prophecy.<br /> The Jews have suffered because of the horrid story<br />
+      that their ancestors crucified the Son of God. Chris-<br /> tianity, coming
+      into power, looked with horror upon<br /> the Jews, who denied the truth of
+      the gospel. Each<br /> Jew was regarded as a dangerous witness against<br />
+      Christianity. The early Christians saw how neces-<br /> sary it was that
+      the people who lived in Jerusalem<br /> at the time of Christ should be
+      convinced that<br /> he was God, and should testify to the miracles he<br />
+      wrought. Whenever a Jew denied it, the Christian<br /> was filled with
+      malignity and hatred, and immediately<br /> excited the prejudice of other
+      Christians against the<br /> man simply because he was a Jew. They forgot,
+      in<br /> their general hatred, that Mary, the mother of Christ,<br /> was a
+      Jewess; that Christ himself was of Jewish<br /> blood; and with an
+      inconsistency of which, of all<br /> <br /> 287<br /> <br /> religions,
+      Christianity alone could have been guilty,<br /> the Jew became an object
+      of especial hatred and<br /> aversion.<br /> <br /> When we remember that
+      Christianity pretends to<br /> be a religion of love and kindness, of
+      charity and for-<br /> giveness, must not every intelligent man be shocked<br />
+      by the persecution of the Jews? Even now, in learned<br /> and cultivated
+      Germany, the Jew is treated as though<br /> he were a wild beast. The
+      reputation of this great<br /> people has been stained by a persecution
+      spring-<br /> ing only from ignorance and barbarian prejudice.<br /> So in
+      Russia, the Christians are anxious to shed<br /> every drop of Jewish
+      blood, and thousands are to-day<br /> fleeing from their homes to seek a
+      refuge from Chris-<br /> tian hate. And Mr. Talmage believes that all these<br />
+      persecutions are kept up by the perpetual intervention<br /> of God, in
+      order that the homeless wanderers of the<br /> seed of Abraham may testify
+      to the truth of the Old<br /> and New Testaments. He thinks that every
+      burning<br /> Jewish home sheds light upon the gospel,&mdash;that<br />
+      every gash in Jewish flesh cries out in favor of the<br /> Bible,&mdash;that
+      every violated Jewish maiden shows the<br /> interest that God still takes
+      in the preservation of<br /> his Holy Word.<br /> <br /> I am endeavoring to
+      do away with religious<br /> <br /> 288<br /> <br /> prejudice. I wish to
+      substitute humanity for super-<br /> stition, the love of our fellow-men,
+      for the fear of<br /> God. In the place of ignorant worship, let us put<br />
+      good deeds. We should be great enough and grand<br /> enough to know that
+      the rights of the Jew are pre-<br /> cisely the same as our own. We cannot
+      trample<br /> upon their rights, without endangering our own; and<br /> no
+      man who will take liberty from another, is great<br /> enough to enjoy
+      liberty himself.<br /> <br /> Day by day Christians are laying the
+      foundation<br /> of future persecution. In every Sunday school little<br />
+      children are taught that Jews killed the God of this<br /> universe. Their
+      little hearts are filled with hatred<br /> against the Jewish people. They
+      are taught as a<br /> part of the creed to despise the descendants of the<br />
+      only people with whom God is ever said to have had<br /> any conversation
+      whatever.<br /> <br /> When we take into consideration what the Jewish<br />
+      people have suffered, it is amazing that every one of<br /> them does not
+      hate with all his heart and soul and<br /> strength the entire Christian
+      world. But in spite of<br /> the persecutions they have endured, they are
+      to-day,<br /> where they are permitted to enjoy reasonable liberty,<br />
+      the most prosperous people on the globe. The idea<br /> that their
+      condition shows, or tends to show, that<br /> <br /> 289<br /> <br /> upon
+      them abides the wrath of Jehovah, cannot be<br /> substantiated by the
+      facts.<br /> <br /> The Jews to-day control the commerce of the<br /> world.
+      They control the money of the world. It is<br /> for them to say whether
+      nations shall or shall not go<br /> to war. They are the people of whom
+      nations borrow<br /> money. To their offices kings come with their hats<br />
+      in their hands. Emperors beg them to discount their<br /> notes. Is all
+      this a consequence of the wrath of<br /> God?<br /> <br /> We find upon our
+      streets no Jewish beggars. It is<br /> a rare sight to find one of these
+      people standing as<br /> a criminal before a court. They do not fill our
+      alms-<br /> houses, nor our penitentiaries, nor our jails. In-<br />
+      tellectually and morally they are the equal of any<br /> people. They have
+      become illustrious in every de-<br /> partment of art and science. The old
+      cry against<br /> them is at last perceived to be ignorant. Only a few<br />
+      years ago, Christians would rob a Jew, strip him of<br /> his possessions,
+      steal his money, declare him an out-<br /> cast, and drive him forth. Then
+      they would point<br /> to him as a fulfillment of prophecy.<br /> <br /> If
+      you wish to see the difference between some<br /> Jews and some Christians,
+      compare the addresses of<br /> Felix Adler with the sermons of Mr. Talmage.<br />
+      <br /> 290<br /> <br /> I cannot convince myself that an infinitely good<br />
+      and wise God holds a Jewish babe in the cradle of<br /> to-day responsible
+      for the crimes of Caiaphas the<br /> high priest. I hardly think that an
+      infinitely good<br /> being would pursue this little babe through all its
+      life<br /> simply to get revenge on those who died two thou-<br /> sand
+      years ago. An infinite being ought certainly to<br /> know that the child
+      is not to blame; and an infinite<br /> being who does not know this, is not
+      entitled to the<br /> love or adoration of any honest man.<br /> <br /> There
+      is a strange inconsistency in what Mr. Tal-<br /> mage says. For instance,
+      he finds great fault with<br /> me because I do not agree with the
+      religious ideas<br /> of my father; and he finds fault equally with the<br />
+      Jews who do. The Jews who were true to the re-<br /> ligion of their
+      fathers, according to Mr. Talmage,<br /> have been made a by-word and a
+      hissing and a re-<br /> proach among all nations, and only those Jews were<br />
+      fortunate and blest who abandoned the religion of<br /> their fathers. The
+      real reason for this inconsistency<br /> is this: Mr. Talmage really thinks
+      that a man can<br /> believe as he wishes. He imagines that evidence de-<br />
+      pends simply upon volition; consequently, he holds<br /> every one
+      responsible for his belief. Being satisfied<br /> that he has the exact
+      truth in this matter, he meas-<br /> <br /> 291<br /> <br /> ures all other
+      people by his standard, and if they<br /> fail by that measurement, he
+      holds them personally<br /> responsible, and believes that his God does the
+      same.<br /> If Mr. Talmage had been born in Turkey, he would<br /> in all
+      probability have been a Mohammedan, and<br /> would now be denouncing some
+      man who had denied<br /> the inspiration of the Koran, as the "champion
+      blas-<br /> "phemer" of Constantinople. Certainly he would<br /> have been,
+      had his parents been Mohammedans;<br /> because, according to his doctrine,
+      he would have<br /> been utterly lacking in respect and love for his father<br />
+      and mother had he failed to perpetuate their errors.<br /> So, had he been
+      born in Utah, of Mormon parents,<br /> he would now have been a defender of
+      polygamy.<br /> He would not "run the ploughshare of contempt<br /> "through
+      the graves of his parents," by taking the<br /> ground that polygamy is
+      wrong.<br /> <br /> I presume that all of Mr. Talmage's forefathers<br />
+      were not Presbyterians. There must have been<br /> a time when one of his
+      progenitors left the faith of<br /> his father, and joined the Presbyterian
+      Church. Ac-<br /> cording to the reasoning of Mr. Talmage, that particular<br />
+      progenitor was an exceedingly bad man; but had it<br /> not been for the
+      crime of that bad man, Mr. Talmage<br /> might not now have been on the
+      road to heaven.<br /> <br /> 292<br /> <br /> I hardly think that all the
+      inventors, the thinkers,<br /> the philosophers, the discoverers,
+      dishonored their<br /> parents. Fathers and mothers have been made<br />
+      immortal by such sons. And yet these sons demon-<br /> strated the errors
+      of their parents. A good father<br /> wishes to be excelled by his
+      children.<br /> <br /> <br /> <a name="link0008" id="link0008"></a><br />
+      <br /> <big><b>SIXTH INTERVIEW.</b></big><br /> <br /> <i>It is a
+      contradiction in terms and ideas to call<br /> anything a revelation that
+      comes to us at second-<br /> hand, either verbally or in writing.
+      Revelation is<br /> necessarily limited to the first communication&mdash;<br />
+      after this, it is only an account of something<br /> which that person says
+      was a revelation made to<br /> him; and though he may find himself obliged
+      to<br /> believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to<br /> believe it in the
+      same manner; for it was not a<br /> revelation made to me, and I have only
+      his word<br /> for it that it was made to him.&mdash;Thomas Paine.</i><br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you think of the argu-<br /> ments presented
+      by Mr. Talmage in favor of<br /> the inspiration of the Bible?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that<br /> there are more
+      copies of the Bible than of any<br /> other book, and that consequently it
+      must be in-<br /> spired.<br /> <br /> It seems to me that this kind of
+      reasoning proves<br /> entirely too much. If the Bible is the inspired word<br />
+      of God, it was certainly just as true when there was<br /> only one copy,
+      as it is to-day; and the facts con-<br /> tained in it were just as true
+      before they were<br /> <br /> 296<br /> <br /> written, as afterwards. We all
+      know that it is a fact<br /> in human nature, that a man can tell a
+      falsehood so<br /> often that he finally believes it himself; but I never<br />
+      suspected, until now, that a mistake could be printed<br /> enough times to
+      make it true.<br /> <br /> There may have been a time, and probably there<br />
+      was, when there were more copies of the Koran<br /> than of the Bible. When
+      most Christians were ut-<br /> terly ignorant, thousands of Moors were
+      educated;<br /> and it is well known that the arts and sciences<br />
+      flourished in Mohammedan countries in a far greater<br /> degree than in
+      Christian. Now, at that time, it may<br /> be that there were more copies
+      of the Koran than of<br /> the Bible. If some enterprising Mohammedan had<br />
+      only seen the force of such a fact, he might have<br /> established the
+      inspiration of the Koran beyond<br /> a doubt; or, if it had been found by
+      actual count that<br /> the Koran was a little behind, a few years of in-<br />
+      dustry spent in the multiplication of copies, might<br /> have furnished
+      the evidence of its inspiration.<br /> <br /> Is it not simply amazing that
+      a doctor of divinity,<br /> a Presbyterian clergyman, in this day and age,
+      should<br /> seriously rely upon the number of copies of the Bible<br /> to
+      substantiate the inspiration of that book? Is it<br /> possible to conceive
+      of anything more fig-leaflessly<br /> <br /> 297<br /> <br /> absurd? If there
+      is anything at all in this argument,<br /> it is, that all books are true
+      in proportion to the<br /> number of copies that exist. Of course, the same<br />
+      rule will work with newspapers; so that the news-<br /> paper having the
+      largest circulation can consistently<br /> claim infallibility. Suppose
+      that an exceedingly absurd<br /> statement should appear in <i>The New York
+      Herald</i>,<br /> and some one should denounce it as utterly without<br />
+      any foundation in fact or probability; what would<br /> Mr. Talmage think
+      if the editor of the Herald, as an<br /> evidence of the truth of the
+      statement, should rely<br /> on the fact that his paper had the largest
+      circulation<br /> of any in the city? One would think that the whole<br />
+      church had acted upon the theory that a falsehood re-<br /> peated often
+      enough was as good as the truth.<br /> <br /> Another evidence brought
+      forward by the reverend<br /> gentleman to prove the inspiration of the
+      Scriptures,<br /> is the assertion that if Congress should undertake to<br />
+      pass a law to take the Bible from the people, thirty,<br /> millions would
+      rise in defence of that book.<br /> <br /> This argument also seems to me to
+      prove too much,<br /> and as a consequence, to prove nothing. If Con-<br />
+      gress should pass a law prohibiting the reading of<br /> Shakespeare, every
+      American would rise in defence<br /> of his right to read the works of the
+      greatest man<br /> <br /> 298<br /> <br /> this world has known. Still, that
+      would not even<br /> tend to show that Shakespeare was inspired. The<br />
+      fact is, the American people would not allow Con-<br /> gress to pass a law
+      preventing them from reading<br /> any good book. Such action would not
+      prove the<br /> book to be inspired; it would prove that the American<br />
+      people believe in liberty.<br /> <br /> There are millions of people in
+      Turkey who would<br /> peril their lives in defence of the Koran. A fact
+      like<br /> this does not prove the truth of the Koran; it simply<br />
+      proves what Mohammedans think of that book, and<br /> what they are willing
+      to do for its preservation.<br /> <br /> It can not be too often repeated,
+      that martyrdom<br /> does not prove the truth of the thing for which the<br />
+      martyr dies; it only proves the sincerity of the martyr<br /> and the
+      cruelty of his murderers. No matter how<br /> many people regard the Bible
+      as inspired,&mdash;that fact<br /> furnishes no evidence that it is
+      inspired. Just as many<br /> people have regarded other books as inspired;
+      just as<br /> many millions have been deluded about the inspiration<br /> of
+      books ages and ages before Christianity was born.<br /> <br /> The simple
+      belief of one man, or of millions of men,<br /> is no evidence to another.
+      Evidence must be based,<br /> not upon the belief of other people, but upon
+      facts.<br /> A believer may state the facts upon which his belief<br />
+      <br /> 299<br /> <br /> is founded, and the person to whom he states them<br />
+      gives them the weight that according to the con-<br /> struction and
+      constitution of his mind he must. But<br /> simple, bare belief is not
+      testimony. We should build<br /> upon facts, not upon beliefs of others,
+      nor upon the<br /> shifting sands of public opinion. So much for this<br />
+      argument.<br /> <br /> The next point made by the reverend gentleman<br />
+      is, that an infidel cannot be elected to any office in<br /> the United
+      States, in any county, precinct, or ward.<br /> <br /> For the sake of the
+      argument, let us admit that this<br /> is true. What does it prove? There
+      was a time<br /> when no Protestant could have been elected to any<br />
+      office. What did that prove? There was a time<br /> when no Presbyterian
+      could have been chosen to fill<br /> any public station. What did that
+      prove? The<br /> same may be said of the members of each religious<br />
+      denomination. What does that prove?<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage says that
+      Christianity must be true,<br /> because an infidel cannot be elected to
+      office. Now,<br /> suppose that enough infidels should happen to settle<br />
+      in one precinct to elect one of their own number to<br /> office; would
+      that prove that Christianity was not<br /> true in that precinct? There was
+      a time when no<br /> man could have been elected to any office, who in-<br />
+      <br /> 300<br /> <br /> sisted on the rotundity of the earth; what did that<br />
+      prove? There was a time when no man who denied<br /> the existence of
+      witches, wizards, spooks and devils,<br /> could hold any position of
+      honor; what did that<br /> prove? There was a time when an abolitionist
+      could<br /> not be elected to office in any State in this Union;<br /> what
+      did that prove? There was a time when they<br /> were not allowed to
+      express their honest thoughts;<br /> what does that prove? There was a time
+      when a<br /> Quaker could not have been elected to any office;<br /> there
+      was a time in the history of this country when<br /> but few of them were
+      allowed to live; what does<br /> that prove? Is it necessary, in order to
+      ascertain the<br /> truth of Christianity, to look over the election re-<br />
+      turns? Is "inspiration" a question to be settled by<br /> the ballot? I
+      admit that it was once, in the first<br /> place, settled that way. I admit
+      that books were<br /> voted in and voted out, and that the Bible was
+      finally<br /> formed in accordance with a vote; but does Mr.<br /> Talmage
+      insist that the question is not still open?<br /> Does he not know, that a
+      fact cannot by any possi-<br /> bility be affected by opinion? We make laws
+      for<br /> the whole people, by the whole people. We agree<br /> that a
+      majority shall rule, but nobody ever pretended<br /> that a question of
+      taste could be settled by an appeal<br /> <br /> 301<br /> <br /> to
+      majorities, or that a question of logic could be<br /> affected by numbers.
+      In the world of thought, each<br /> man is an absolute monarch, each brain
+      is a king-<br /> dom, that cannot be invaded even by the tyranny of<br />
+      majorities.<br /> <br /> No man can avoid the intellectual responsibility of<br />
+      deciding for himself.<br /> <br /> Suppose that the Christian religion had
+      been put<br /> to vote in Jerusalem? Suppose that the doctrine of<br /> the
+      "fall" had been settled in Athens, by an appeal<br /> to the people, would
+      Mr. Talmage have been willing<br /> to abide by their decision? If he
+      settles the inspira-<br /> tion of the Bible by a popular vote, he must
+      settle the<br /> meaning of the Bible by the same means. There are<br />
+      more Methodists than Presbyterians&mdash;why does the<br /> gentleman
+      remain a Presbyterian? There are more<br /> Buddhists than Christians&mdash;why
+      does he vote against<br /> majorities? He will remember that Christianity
+      was<br /> once settled by a popular vote&mdash;that the divinity of<br />
+      Christ was submitted to the people, and the people<br /> said: "Crucify
+      him!"<br /> <br /> The next, and about the strongest, argument Mr.<br />
+      Talmage makes is, that I am an infidel because I was<br /> defeated for
+      Governor of Illinois.<br /> <br /> When put in plain English, his statement
+      is this:<br /> <br /> 302<br /> <br /> that I was defeated because I was an
+      infidel, and that<br /> I am an infidel because I was defeated. This, I be-<br />
+      lieve, is called reasoning in a circle. The truth is,<br /> that a good
+      many people did object to me because I<br /> was an infidel, and the
+      probability is, that if I had<br /> denied being an infidel, I might have
+      obtained an<br /> office. The wonderful part is, that any Christian<br />
+      should deride me because I preferred honor to po-<br /> litical success. He
+      who dishonors himself for the<br /> sake of being honored by others, will
+      find that two<br /> mistakes have been made&mdash;one by himself, and the<br />
+      other, by the people.<br /> <br /> I presume that Mr.Talmage really thinks
+      that I was<br /> extremely foolish to avow my real opinions. After<br />
+      all, men are apt to judge others somewhat by them-<br /> selves. According
+      to him, I made the mistake of<br /> preserving my manhood and losing an
+      office. Now,<br /> if I had in fact been an infidel, and had denied it, for<br />
+      the sake of position, then I admit that every Christian<br /> might have
+      pointed at me the finger of contempt.<br /> But I was an infidel, and
+      admitted it. Surely, I should<br /> not be held in contempt by Christians
+      for having<br /> made the admission. I was not a believer in the<br />
+      Bible, and I said so. I was not a Christian, and I said<br /> so. I was not
+      willing to receive the support of any<br /> <br /> 303<br /> <br /> man under
+      a false impression. I thought it better to<br /> be honestly beaten, than
+      to dishonestly succeed.<br /> According to the ethics of Mr. Talmage I made
+      a<br /> mistake, and this mistake is brought forward as<br /> another
+      evidence of the inspiration of the Scriptures.<br /> If I had only been
+      elected Governor of Illinois,&mdash;that<br /> is to say, if I had been a
+      successful hypocrite, I might<br /> now be basking in the sunshine of this
+      gentleman's<br /> respect. I preferred to tell the truth&mdash;to be an<br />
+      honest man,&mdash;and I have never regretted the course<br /> I pursued.<br />
+      <br /> There are many men now in office who, had they<br /> pursued a nobler
+      course, would be private citizens.<br /> Nominally, they are Christians;
+      actually, they are<br /> nothing; and this is the combination that
+      generally<br /> insures political success.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage is
+      exceedingly proud of the fact that<br /> Christians will not vote for
+      infidels. In other words,<br /> he does not believe that in our Government
+      the<br /> church has been absolutely divorced from the state.<br /> He
+      believes that it is still the Christian's duty to<br /> make the religious
+      test. Probably he wishes to get<br /> his God into the Constitution. My
+      position is this:<br /> <br /> Religion is an individual matter&mdash;a
+      something for<br /> each individual to settle for himself, and with which<br />
+      <br /> 304<br /> <br /> no other human being has any concern, provided the<br />
+      religion of each human being allows liberty to every<br /> other. When
+      called upon to vote for men to fill the<br /> offices of this country, I do
+      not inquire as to the re-<br /> ligion of the candidates. It is none of my
+      business.<br /> I ask the questions asked by Jefferson: "Is he<br />
+      "honest; is he capable?" It makes no difference to<br /> me, if he is
+      willing that others should be free, what<br /> creed he may profess. The
+      moment I inquire into his<br /> religious belief, I found a little
+      inquisition of my own;<br /> I repeat, in a small way, the errors of the
+      past, and<br /> reproduce, in so far as I am capable, the infamy of<br />
+      the ignorant orthodox years.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage will accept my thanks
+      for his frankness.<br /> I now know what controls a Presbyterian when he<br />
+      casts his vote. He cares nothing for the capacity,<br /> nothing for the
+      fitness, of the candidate to discharge<br /> the duties of the office to
+      which he aspires; he<br /> simply asks: Is he a Presbyterian, is he a
+      Protestant,<br /> does he believe our creed? and then, no matter how<br />
+      ignorant he may be, how utterly unfit, he receives the<br /> Presbyterian
+      vote. According to Mr. Talmage, he<br /> would vote for a Catholic who, if
+      he had the power,<br /> would destroy all liberty of conscience, rather
+      than<br /> vote for an infidel who, had he the power, would<br /> <br /> 305<br />
+      <br /> destroy all the religious tyranny of the world, and<br /> allow every
+      human being to think for himself, and<br /> to worship God, or not, as and
+      how he pleased.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage makes the serious mistake of
+      placing<br /> the Bible above the laws and Constitution of his<br />
+      country. He places Jehovah above humanity. Such<br /> men are not entirely
+      safe citizens of any republic.<br /> And yet, I am in favor of giving to
+      such men all the<br /> liberty I ask for myself, trusting to education and
+      the<br /> spirit of progress to overcome any injury they may<br /> do, or
+      seek to do.<br /> <br /> When this country was founded, when the Con-<br />
+      stitution was adopted, the churches agreed to let the<br /> State alone.
+      They agreed that all citizens should have<br /> equal civil rights. Nothing
+      could be more dangerous<br /> to the existence of this Republic than to
+      introduce<br /> religion into politics. The American theory is, that<br />
+      governments are founded, not by gods, but by men,<br /> and that the right
+      to govern does not come from<br /> God, but "from the consent of the
+      governed." Our<br /> fathers concluded that the people were sufficiently<br />
+      intelligent to take care of themselves&mdash;to make good<br /> laws and to
+      execute them. Prior to that time, all<br /> authority was supposed to come
+      from the clouds.<br /> Kings were set upon thrones by God, and it was the<br />
+      <br /> 306<br /> <br /> business of the people simply to submit. In all
+      really<br /> civilized countries, that doctrine has been abandoned.<br />
+      The source of political power is here, not in heaven.<br /> We are willing
+      that those in heaven should control<br /> affairs there; we are willing
+      that the angels should<br /> have a government to suit themselves; but
+      while we<br /> live here, and while our interests are upon this earth,<br />
+      we propose to make and execute our own laws.<br /> <br /> If the doctrine of
+      Mr. Talmage is the true doctrine,<br /> if no man should be voted for
+      unless he is a Christian,<br /> then no man should vote unless he is a
+      Christian. It<br /> will not do to say that sinners may vote, that an
+      infidel<br /> may be the repository of political power, but must not<br />
+      be voted for. A decent Christian who is not willing<br /> that an infidel
+      should be elected to an office, would<br /> not be willing to be elected to
+      an office by infidel<br /> votes. If infidels are too bad to be voted for,
+      they<br /> are certainly not good enough to vote, and no<br /> Christian
+      should be willing to represent such an<br /> infamous constituency.<br />
+      <br /> If the political theory of Mr. Talmage is carried<br /> out, of
+      course the question will arise in a little while,<br /> What is a
+      Christian? It will then be necessary to<br /> write a creed to be
+      subscribed by every person before<br /> he is fit to vote or to be voted
+      for. This of course<br /> <br /> 307<br /> <br /> must be done by the State,
+      and must be settled,<br /> under our form of government, by a majority
+      vote.<br /> Is Mr. Talmage willing that the question, What is<br />
+      Christianity? should be so settled? Will he pledge<br /> himself in advance
+      to subscribe to such a creed? Of<br /> course he will not. He will insist
+      that he has the<br /> right to read the Bible for himself, and that he must<br />
+      be bound by his own conscience. In this he would<br /> be right. If he has
+      the right to read the Bible for<br /> himself, so have I. If he is to be
+      bound by his con-<br /> science, so am I. If he honestly believes the Bible
+      to<br /> be true, he must say so, in order to preserve his man-<br /> hood;
+      and if I honestly believe it to be uninspired,&mdash;<br /> filled with
+      mistakes,&mdash;I must say so, or lose my man-<br /> hood. How infamous I
+      would be should I endeavor<br /> to deprive him of his vote, or of his
+      right to be voted<br /> for, because he had been true to his conscience!
+      And<br /> how infamous he is to try to deprive me of the right<br /> to
+      vote, or to be voted for, because I am true to my<br /> conscience!<br />
+      <br /> When we were engaged in civil war, did Mr. Tal-<br /> mage object to
+      any man's enlisting in the ranks who<br /> was not a Christian? Was he
+      willing, at that time,<br /> that sinners should vote to keep our flag in
+      heaven?<br /> Was he willing that the "unconverted" should cover<br /> <br />
+      308<br /> <br /> the fields of victory with their corpses, that this nation<br />
+      might not die? At the same time, Mr. Talmage<br /> knew that every
+      "unconverted" soldier killed, went<br /> down to eternal fire. Does Mr.
+      Talmage believe that<br /> it is the duty of a man to fight for a
+      government in<br /> which he has no rights? Is the man who shoulders<br />
+      his musket in the defence of human freedom good<br /> enough to cast a
+      ballot? There is in the heart of this<br /> priest the safne hatred of real
+      liberty that drew the<br /> sword of persecution, that built dungeons, that
+      forged<br /> chains and made instruments of torture.<br /> <br /> Nobody,
+      with the exception of priests, would be<br /> willing to trust the
+      liberties of this country in the<br /> hands of any church. In order to
+      show the political<br /> estimation in which the clergy are held, in order
+      to<br /> show the confidence the people at large have in the<br /> sincerity
+      and wisdom of the clergy, it is sufficient to<br /> state, that no priest,
+      no bishop, could by any possi-<br /> bility be elected President of the
+      United States. No<br /> party could carry that load. A fear would fall upon<br />
+      the mind and heart of every honest man that this<br /> country was about to
+      drift back to the Middle Ages,<br /> and that the old battles were to be
+      refought. If the<br /> bishop running for President was of the Methodist<br />
+      Church, every other church would oppose him. If<br /> <br /> 309<br /> <br />
+      he was a Catholic, the Protestants would as a body<br /> combine against
+      him. Why? The churches have<br /> no confidence in each other. Why? Because
+      they<br /> are acquainted with each other.<br /> <br /> As a matter of fact,
+      the infidel has a thousand<br /> times more reason to vote against the
+      Christian,<br /> than the Christian has to vote against the infidel.<br />
+      The Christian believes in a book superior to the<br /> Constitution&mdash;superior
+      to all Constitutions and all<br /> laws. The infidel believes that the
+      Constitution and<br /> laws are superior to any book. He is not controlled<br />
+      by any power beyond the seas or above the clouds.<br /> He does not receive
+      his orders from Rome, or Sinai.<br /> He receives them from his
+      fellow-citizens, legally and<br /> constitutionally expressed. The
+      Christian believes in<br /> a power greater than man, to which, upon the
+      peril<br /> of eternal pain, he must bow. His allegiance, to say<br /> the
+      best of it, is divided. The Christian puts the for-<br /> tune of his own
+      soul over and above the temporal<br /> welfare of the entire world; the
+      infidel puts the good<br /> of mankind here and now, beyond and over all.<br />
+      <br /> There was a time in New England when only<br /> church members were
+      allowed to vote, and it may be<br /> instructive to state the fact that
+      during that time<br /> Quakers were hanged, women were stripped, tied to<br />
+      <br /> 310<br /> <br /> carts, and whipped from town to town, and their<br />
+      babes sold into slavery, or exchanged for rum. Now<br /> in that same
+      country, thousands and thousands of<br /> infidels vote, and yet the laws
+      are nearer just, women<br /> are not whipped and children are not sold.<br />
+      <br /> If all the convicts in all the penitentiaries of the<br /> United
+      States could be transported to some island in<br /> the sea, and there
+      allowed to make a government for<br /> themselves, they would pass better
+      laws than John<br /> Calvin did in Geneva. They would have clearer and<br />
+      better views of the rights of men, than unconvicted<br /> Christians used
+      to have. I do not say that these<br /> convicts are better people, but I do
+      say that, in my<br /> judgment, they would make better laws. They cer-<br />
+      tainly could not make worse.<br /> <br /> If these convicts were taken from
+      the prisons of<br /> the United States, they would not dream of uniting<br />
+      church and state. They would have no religious<br /> test. They would allow
+      every man to vote and to be<br /> voted for, no matter what his religious
+      views might<br /> be. They would not dream of whipping Quakers, of<br />
+      burning Unitarians, of imprisoning or burning Uni-<br /> versalists or
+      infidels. They would allow all the people<br /> to guess for themselves.
+      Some of these convicts, of<br /> course, would believe in the old ideas,
+      and would<br /> insist upon the suppression of free thought. Those<br />
+      coming from Delaware would probably repeat with<br /> great gusto the
+      opinions of Justice Comegys, and<br /> insist that the whipping-post was
+      the handmaid of<br /> Christianity.<br /> <br /> It would be hard to conceive
+      of a much worse<br /> government than that founded by the Puritans.<br />
+      They took the Bible for the foundation of their<br /> political structure.
+      They copied the laws given to<br /> Moses from Sinai, and the result was
+      one of the<br /> worst governments that ever disgraced this world.<br />
+      They believed the Old Testament to be inspired.<br /> They believed that
+      Jehovah made laws for all people<br /> and for all time. They had not
+      learned the hypoc-<br /> risy that believes and avoids. They did not say:<br />
+      This law was once just, but is now unjust; it was<br /> once good, but now
+      it is infamous; it was given by<br /> God once, but now it can only be
+      obeyed by the<br /> devil. They had not reached the height of biblical<br />
+      exegesis on which we find the modern theologian<br /> perched, and who
+      tells us that Jehovah has reformed.<br /> The Puritans were consistent.
+      They did what people<br /> must do who honestly believe in the inspiration
+      of<br /> the Old Testament. If God gave laws from Sinai<br /> what right
+      have we to repeal them?<br /> <br /> 312<br /> <br /> As people have gained
+      confidence in each other,<br /> they have lost confidence in the sacred
+      Scriptures.<br /> We know now that the Bible can not be used as the<br />
+      foundation of government. It is capable of too many<br /> meanings. Nobody
+      can find out exactly what it<br /> upholds, what it permits, what it
+      denounces, what it<br /> denies. These things depend upon what part you<br />
+      read. If it is all true, it upholds everything bad and<br /> denounces
+      everything good, and it also denounces<br /> the bad and upholds the good.
+      Then there are<br /> passages where the good is denounced and the bad<br />
+      commanded; so that any one can go to the Bible<br /> and find some text,
+      some passage, to uphold anything<br /> he may desire. If he wishes to
+      enslave his fellow-<br /> men, he will find hundreds of passages in his
+      favor.<br /> If he wishes to be a polygamist, he can find his<br />
+      authority there. If he wishes to make war, to exter-<br /> minate his
+      neighbors, there his warrant can be found.<br /> If, on the other hand, he
+      is oppressed himself, and<br /> wishes to make war upon his king, he can
+      find a<br /> battle-cry. And if the king wishes to put him down,<br /> he
+      can find text for text on the other side. So, too,<br /> upon all questions
+      of reform. The teetotaler goes<br /> there to get his verse, and the
+      moderate drinker<br /> finds within the sacred lids his best excuse.<br />
+      <br /> 313<br /> <br /> Most intelligent people are now convinced that the<br />
+      bible is not a guide; that in reading it you must<br /> exercise your
+      reason; that you can neither safely<br /> reject nor accept all; that he
+      who takes one passage<br /> for a staff, trips upon another; that while one
+      text is<br /> a light, another blows it out; that it is such a ming-<br />
+      ling of rocks and quicksands, such a labyrinth of<br /> clews and snares&mdash;so
+      few flowers among so many<br /> nettles and thorns, that it misleads rather
+      than di-<br /> rects, and taken altogether, is a hindrance and not<br /> a
+      help.<br /> <br /> Another important point made by Mr. Talmage is,<br /> that
+      if the Bible is thrown away, we will have nothing<br /> left to swear
+      witnesses on, and that consequently the<br /> administration of justice
+      will become impossible.<br /> <br /> There was a time when the Bible did not
+      exist, and<br /> if Mr. Talmage is correct, of course justice was im-<br />
+      possible then, and truth must have been a stranger<br /> to human lips. How
+      can we depend upon the testi-<br /> mony of those who wrote the Bible, as
+      there was no<br /> Bible in existence while they were writing, and con-<br />
+      sequently there was no way to take their testimony,<br /> and we have no
+      account of their having been sworn<br /> on the Bible after they got it
+      finished. It is extremely<br /> sad to think that all the nations of
+      antiquity were left<br /> <br /> 314<br /> <br /> entirely without the means
+      of eliciting truth. No<br /> wonder that Justice was painted blindfolded.<br />
+      <br /> What perfect fetichism it is, to imagine that a man<br /> will tell
+      the truth simply because he has kissed an<br /> old piece of sheepskin
+      stained with the saliva of all<br /> classes. A farce of this kind adds
+      nothing to the<br /> testimony of an honest man; it simply allows a rogue<br />
+      to give weight to his false testimony. This is really<br /> the only result
+      that can be accomplished by kissing<br /> the Bible. A desperate villain,
+      for the purpose of<br /> getting revenge, or making money, will gladly go<br />
+      through the ceremony, and ignorant juries and su-<br /> perstitious judges
+      will be imposed upon. The whole<br /> system of oaths is false, and does
+      harm instead of<br /> good. Let every man walk into court and tell his<br />
+      story, and let the truth of the story be judged by its<br />
+      reasonableness, taking into consideration the charac-<br /> ter of the
+      witness, the interest he has, and the posi-<br /> tion he occupies in the
+      controversy, and then let it<br /> be the business of the jury to ascertain
+      the real truth<br /> &mdash;to throw away the unreasonable and the impossi-<br />
+      ble, and make up their verdict only upon what they<br /> believe to be
+      reasonable and true. An honest man<br /> does not need the oath, and a
+      rascal uses it simply<br /> to accomplish his purpose. If the history of
+      courts<br /> <br /> 315<br /> <br /> proved that every man, after kissing the
+      Bible, told<br /> the truth, and that those who failed to kiss it some-<br />
+      times lied, I should be in favor of swearing all people<br /> on the Bible;
+      but the experience of every lawyer is,<br /> that kissing the Bible is not
+      always the preface of a<br /> true story. It is often the ceremonial
+      embroidery<br /> of a falsehood.<br /> <br /> If there is an infinite God who
+      attends to the<br /> affairs of men, it seems to me almost a sacrilege to<br />
+      publicly appeal to him in every petty trial. If one<br /> will go into any
+      court, and notice the manner in<br /> which oaths are administered,&mdash;the
+      utter lack of<br /> solemnity&mdash;the matter-of-course air with which the<br />
+      whole thing is done, he will be convinced that it is a<br /> form of no
+      importance. Mr. Talmage would probably<br /> agree with the judge of whom
+      the following story is<br /> told:<br /> <br /> A witness was being sworn.
+      The judge noticed<br /> that he was not holding up his hand. He said to the<br />
+      clerk: "Let the witness hold up his right hand."<br /> "His right arm was
+      shot off," replied the clerk. "Let<br /> "him hold up his left, then."
+      "That was shot off, too,<br /> "your honor." "Well, then, let him raise one
+      foot;<br /> "no man can be sworn in this court without holding<br />
+      "something up."<br /> <br /> <br /> My own opinion is, that if every copy of
+      the Bible<br /> in the world were destroyed, there would be some<br /> way
+      to ascertain the truth in judicial proceedings;<br /> and any other book
+      would do just as well to swear<br /> witnesses upon, or a block in the
+      shape of a book<br /> covered with some kind of calfskin could do equally<br />
+      well, or just the calfskin would do. Nothing is more<br /> laughable than
+      the performance of this ceremony,<br /> and I have never seen in court one
+      calf kissing the<br /> skin of another, that I did not feel humiliated that<br />
+      such things were done in the name of Justice.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage has
+      still another argument in favor<br /> of the preservation of the Bible. He
+      wants to<br /> know what book could take its place on the centre-<br />
+      table.<br /> <br /> I admit that there is much force in this. Suppose<br />
+      we all admitted the Bible to be an uninspired book,<br /> it could still be
+      kept on the centre-table. It would<br /> be just as true then as it is now.
+      Inspiration can not<br /> add anything to a fact; neither can inspiration
+      make<br /> the immoral moral, the unjust just, or the cruel merci-<br />
+      ful. If it is a fact that God established human slavery,<br /> that does
+      not prove slavery to be right; it simply<br /> shows that God was wrong. If
+      I have the right to<br /> use my reason in determining whether the Bible is<br />
+      <br /> 317<br /> <br /> inspired or not, and if in accordance with my reason<br />
+      I conclude that it is inspired, I have still the right to<br /> use my
+      reason in determining whether the command-<br /> ments of God are good or
+      bad. Now, suppose we<br /> take from the Bible every word upholding
+      slavery,<br /> every passage in favor of polygamy, every verse<br />
+      commanding soldiers to kill women and children, it<br /> would be just as
+      fit for the centre-table as now. Sup-<br /> pose every impure word was
+      taken from it; suppose<br /> that the history of Tamar was left out, the
+      biography<br /> of Lot, and all other barbarous accounts of a barbarous<br />
+      people, it would look just as well upon the centre-<br /> table as now.<br />
+      <br /> Suppose that we should become convinced that<br /> the writers of the
+      New Testament were mistaken as<br /> to the eternity of punishment, or that
+      all the passages<br /> now relied upon to prove the existence of perdition<br />
+      were shown to be interpolations, and were thereupon<br /> expunged, would
+      not the book be dearer still to<br /> every human being with a heart? I
+      would like to<br /> see every good passage in the Bible preserved. I<br />
+      would like to see, with all these passages from the<br /> Bible, the
+      loftiest sentiments from all other books<br /> that have ever been uttered
+      by men in all ages and<br /> of all races, bound in one volume, and to see
+      that<br /> <br /> 318<br /> <br /> volume, filled with the greatest, the
+      purest and the<br /> best, become the household book.<br /> <br /> The
+      average Bible, on the average centre-table, is<br /> about as much used as
+      though it were a solid block.<br /> It is scarcely ever opened, and people
+      who see its<br /> covers every day are unfamiliar with its every page.<br />
+      <br /> I admit that some things have happened some-<br /> what hard to
+      explain, and tending to show that the<br /> Bible is no ordinary book. I
+      heard a story, not long<br /> ago, bearing upon this very subject.<br />
+      <br /> A man was a member of the church, but after a<br /> time, having had
+      bad luck in business affairs, became<br /> somewhat discouraged. Not
+      feeling able to con-<br /> tribute his share to the support of the church,
+      he<br /> ceased going to meeting, and finally became an<br /> average
+      sinner. His bad luck pursued him until he<br /> found himself and his
+      family without even a crust to<br /> eat. At this point, his wife told him
+      that she be-<br /> lieved they were suffering from a visitation of God,<br />
+      and begged him to restore family worship, and see if<br /> God would not do
+      something for them. Feeling that<br /> he could not possibly make matters
+      worse, he took<br /> the Bible from its resting place on a shelf where<br />
+      it had quietly slumbered and collected the dust of<br /> many months, and
+      gathered his family about him.<br /> <br /> 319<br /> <br /> He opened the
+      sacred volume, and to his utter as-<br /> tonishment, there, between the
+      divine leaves, was a<br /> ten-dollar bill. He immediately dropped on his<br />
+      knees. His wife dropped on hers, and the children on<br /> theirs, and with
+      streaming eyes they returned thanks<br /> to God. He rushed to the
+      butcher's and bought<br /> some steak, to the baker's and bought some
+      bread,<br /> to the grocer's and got some eggs and butter and tea,<br /> and
+      joyfully hastened home. The supper was cooked,<br /> it was on the table,
+      grace was said, and every face<br /> was radiant with joy. Just at that
+      happy moment a<br /> knock was heard, the door was opened, and a police-<br />
+      man entered and arrested the father for passing<br /> counterfeit money.<br />
+      <br /> Mr. Talmage is also convinced that the Bible is<br /> inspired and
+      should be preserved because there is no<br /> other book that &agrave;
+      mother could give her son as he<br /> leaves the old home to make his way
+      in the world.<br /> <br /> Thousands and thousands of mothers have pre-<br />
+      sented their sons with Bibles without knowing really<br /> what the book
+      contains. They simply followed the<br /> custom, and the sons as a rule
+      honored the Bible, not<br /> because they knew anything of it, but because
+      it was<br /> a gift from mother. But surely, if all the passages<br />
+      upholding polygamy were out, the mother would give<br /> <br /> 320<br />
+      <br /> the book to her son just as readily, and he would re-<br /> ceive it
+      just as joyfully. If there were not one word<br /> in it tending to degrade
+      the mother, the gift would cer-<br /> tainly be as appropriate. The fact
+      that mothers have<br /> presented Bibles to their sons does not prove that
+      the<br /> book is inspired. The most that can be proved by<br /> this fact
+      is that the mothers believed it to be inspired.<br /> It does not even tend
+      to show what the book is,<br /> neither does it tend to establish the truth
+      of one<br /> miracle recorded upon its pages. We cannot believe<br /> that
+      fire refused to burn, simply because the state-<br /> ment happens to be in
+      a book presented to a son by<br /> his mother, and if all the mothers of
+      the entire world<br /> should give Bibles to all their children, this would
+      not<br /> prove that it was once right to murder mothers, or to<br />
+      enslave mothers, or to sell their babes.<br /> <br /> The inspiration of the
+      Bible is not a question of<br /> natural affection. It can not be decided
+      by the love<br /> a mother bears her son. It is a question of fact, to<br />
+      be substantiated like other facts. If the Turkish<br /> mother should give
+      a copy of the Koran to her<br /> son, I would still have my doubts about
+      the in-<br /> spiration of that book; and if some Turkish soldier<br />
+      saved his life by having in his pocket a copy of<br /> the Koran that
+      accidentally stopped a bullet just<br /> <br /> 321<br /> <br /> opposite his
+      heart, I should still deny that Mohammed<br /> was a prophet of God.<br />
+      <br /> Nothing can be more childish than to ascribe<br /> mysterious powers
+      to inanimate objects. To imagine<br /> that old rags made into pulp,
+      manufactured into<br /> paper, covered with words, and bound with the skin<br />
+      of a calf or a sheep, can have any virtues when thus<br /> put together
+      that did not belong to the articles out<br /> of which the book was
+      constructed, is of course<br /> infinitely absurd.<br /> <br /> In the days
+      of slavery, negroes used to buy dried<br /> roots of other negroes, and put
+      these roots in their<br /> pockets, so that a whipping would not give them<br />
+      pain. Kings have bought diamonds to give them<br /> luck. Crosses and
+      scapularies are still worn for the<br /> purpose of affecting the
+      inevitable march of events.<br /> People still imagine that a verse in the
+      Bible can step<br /> in between a cause and its effect; really believe that<br />
+      an amulet, a charm, the bone of some saint, a piece<br /> of a cross, a
+      little image of the Virgin, a picture of a<br /> priest, will affect the
+      weather, will delay frost, will<br /> prevent disease, will insure safety
+      at sea, and in some<br /> cases prevent hanging. The banditti of Italy have<br />
+      great confidence in these things, and whenever they<br /> start upon an
+      expedition of theft and plunder, they<br /> <br /> 322<br /> <br /> take
+      images and pictures of saints with them, such<br /> as have been blest by a
+      priest or pope. They pray<br /> sincerely to the Virgin, to give them luck,
+      and see not<br /> the slightest inconsistency in appealing to all the<br />
+      saints in the calendar to assist them in robbing honest<br /> people.<br />
+      <br /> Edmund About tells a story that illustrates the belief<br /> of the
+      modern Italian. A young man was gambling.<br /> Fortune was against him. In
+      the room was a little<br /> picture representing the Virgin and her child.
+      Before<br /> this picture he crossed himself, and asked the assist-<br />
+      ance of the child. Again he put down his money<br /> and again lost.
+      Returning to the picture, he told the<br /> child that he had lost all but
+      one piece, that he was<br /> about to hazard that, and made a very urgent
+      request<br /> that he would favor him with divine assistance. He<br /> put
+      down the last piece. He lost. Going to the<br /> picture and shaking his
+      fist at the child, he cried out:<br /> "Miserable bambino, I am glad they
+      crucified you!"<br /> <br /> The confidence that one has in an image, in a
+      relic,<br /> in a book, comes from the same source,&mdash;fetichism.<br />
+      To ascribe supernatural virtues to the skin of a snake,<br /> to a picture,
+      or to a bound volume, is intellectually<br /> the same.<br /> <br /> Mr.
+      Talmage has still another argument in favor<br /> <br /> 323<br /> <br /> of
+      the inspiration of the Scriptures. He takes the<br /> ground that the Bible
+      must be inspired, because so<br /> many people believe it.<br /> <br /> Mr.
+      Talmage should remember that a scientific<br /> fact does not depend upon
+      the vote of numbers;&mdash;<br /> it depends simply upon demonstration; it
+      depends<br /> upon intelligence and investigation, not upon an<br />
+      ignorant multitude; it appeals to the highest, in-<br /> stead of to the
+      lowest. Nothing can be settled<br /> by popular prejudice.<br /> <br />
+      According to Mr. Talmage, there are about three<br /> hundred million
+      Christians in the world. Is this true?<br /> In all countries claiming to
+      be Christian&mdash;including<br /> all of civilized Europe, Russia in Asia,
+      and every<br /> country on the Western hemisphere, we have nearly<br /> four
+      hundred millions of people. Mr. Talmage claims<br /> that three hundred
+      millions are Christians. I sup-<br /> pose he means by this, that if all
+      should perish to-<br /> night, about three hundred millions would wake up<br />
+      in heaven&mdash;having lived and died good and consist-<br /> ent
+      Christians.<br /> <br /> There are in Russia about eighty millions of people<br />
+      &mdash;how many Christians? I admit that they have re-<br /> cently given
+      more evidence of orthodox Christianity<br /> than formerly. They have been
+      murdering old men;<br /> <br /> 324<br /> <br /> they have thrust daggers into
+      the breasts of women;<br /> they have violated maidens&mdash;because they
+      were Jews.<br /> Thousands and thousands are sent each year to the<br />
+      mines of Siberia, by the Christian government of<br /> Russia. Girls
+      eighteen years of age, for having ex-<br /> pressed a word in favor of
+      human liberty, are to-day<br /> working like beasts of burden, with chains
+      upon<br /> their limbs and with the marks of whips upon<br /> their backs.
+      Russia, of course, is considered by Mr.<br /> Talmage as a Christian
+      country&mdash;a country utterly<br /> destitute of liberty&mdash;without
+      freedom of the press,<br /> without freedom of speech, where every mouth is<br />
+      locked and every tongue a prisoner&mdash;a country filled<br /> with
+      victims, soldiers, spies, thieves and executioners.<br /> What would Russia
+      be, in the opinion of Mr. Tal-<br /> mage, but for Christianity? How could
+      it be worse,<br /> when assassins are among the best people in it?<br /> The
+      truth is, that the people in Russia, to-day, who<br /> are in favor of
+      human liberty, are not Christians.<br /> The men willing to sacrifice their
+      lives for the good<br /> of others, are not believers in the Christian
+      religion.<br /> The men who wish to break chains are infidels;<br /> the men
+      who make chains are Christians. Every<br /> good and sincere Catholic of
+      the Greek Church<br /> is a bad citizen, an enemy of progress, a foe of<br />
+      <br /> 325<br /> <br /> human liberty. Yet Mr. Talmage regards Russia<br /> as
+      a Christian country.<br /> <br /> The sixteen millions of people in Spain
+      are claimed<br /> as Christians. Spain, that for centuries was the as-<br />
+      sassin of human rights; Spain, that endeavored to<br /> spread Christianity
+      by flame and fagot; Spain, the<br /> soil where the Inquisition flourished,
+      where bigotry<br /> grew, and where cruelty was worship,&mdash;where<br />
+      murder was prayer. I admit that Spain is a Chris-<br /> tian nation. I
+      admit that infidelity has gained no<br /> foothold beyond the Pyrenees. The
+      Spaniards are<br /> orthodox. They believe in the inspiration of the<br />
+      Old and New Testaments. They have no doubts<br /> about miracles&mdash;no
+      doubts about heaven, no doubts<br /> about hell. I admit that the priests,
+      the highway-<br /> men, the bishops and thieves, are equally true be-<br />
+      lievers. The man who takes your purse on the<br /> highway, and the priest
+      who forgives the robber,<br /> are alike orthodox.<br /> <br /> It gives me
+      pleasure, however, to say that even in<br /> Spain there is a dawn. Some
+      great men, some men<br /> of genius, are protesting against the tyranny of
+      Cath-<br /> olicism. Some men have lost confidence in the<br /> cathedral,
+      and are beginningto ask the State to erect<br /> the schoolhouse. They are
+      beginning to suspect<br /> <br /> 326<br /> <br /> that priests are for the
+      most part impostors and<br /> plunderers.<br /> <br /> According to Mr.
+      Talmage, the twenty-eight mil-<br /> lions in Italy are Christians. There
+      the Christian<br /> Church was early established, and the popes are to-<br />
+      day the successors of St. Peter. For hundreds and<br /> hundreds of years,
+      Italy was the beggar of the world,<br /> and to her, from every land,
+      flowed streams of gold<br /> and silver. The country was covered with
+      convents,<br /> and monasteries, and churches, and cathedrals filled<br />
+      with monks and nuns. Its roads were crowded with<br /> pilgrims, and its
+      dust was on the feet of the world.<br /> What has Christianity done for
+      Italy&mdash;Italy, its soil a<br /> blessing, its sky a smile&mdash;Italy,
+      with memories great<br /> enough to kindle the fires of enthusiasm in any<br />
+      human breast?<br /> <br /> Had it not been for a few Freethinkers, for a few<br />
+      infidels, for such men as Garibaldi and Mazzini, the<br /> heaven of Italy
+      would still have been without a star.<br /> <br /> I admit that Italy, with
+      its popes and bandits, with<br /> its superstition and ignorance, with its
+      sanctified<br /> beggars, is a Christian nation; but in a little while,&mdash;<br />
+      in a few days,&mdash;when according to the prophecy of<br /> Garibaldi
+      priests, with spades in their hands, will<br /> dig ditches to drain the
+      Pontine marshes; in a little<br /> <br /> 327<br /> <br /> while, when the
+      pope leaves the Vatican, and seeks<br /> the protection of a nation he has
+      denounced,&mdash;asking<br /> alms of intended victims; when the nuns shall
+      marry,<br /> and the monasteries shall become factories, and the<br /> whirl
+      of wheels shall take the place of drowsy prayers<br /> &mdash;then, and not
+      until then, will Italy be,&mdash;not a<br /> Christian nation, but great,
+      prosperous, and free.<br /> <br /> In Italy, Giordano Bruno was burned. Some
+      day,<br /> his monument will rise above the cross of Rome.<br /> <br /> We
+      have in our day one example,&mdash;and so far as I<br /> know, history
+      records no other,&mdash;of the resurrection<br /> of a nation. Italy has
+      been called from the grave of<br /> superstition. She is "the first fruits
+      of them that<br /> "slept."<br /> <br /> I admit with Mr. Talmage that
+      Portugal is a Chris-<br /> tian country&mdash;that she engaged for hundreds
+      of years<br /> in the slave trade, and that she justified the infamous<br />
+      traffic by passages in the Old Testament. I admit,<br /> also, that she
+      persecuted the Jews in accordance<br /> with the same divine volume. I
+      admit that all the<br /> crime, ignorance, destitution, and superstition in
+      that<br /> country were produced by the Catholic Church. I<br /> also admit
+      that Portugal would be better if it were<br /> Protestant.<br /> <br /> Every
+      Catholic is in favor of education enough to<br /> <br /> 328<br /> <br />
+      change a barbarian into a Catholic; every Protestant<br /> is in favor of
+      education enough to change a Catholic<br /> into a Protestant; but
+      Protestants and Catholics alike<br /> are opposed to education that will
+      lead to any<br /> real philosophy and science. I admit that Portugal<br />
+      is what it is, on account of the preaching of the<br /> gospel. I admit
+      that Portugal can point with pride<br /> to the triumphs of what she calls
+      civilization within<br /> her borders, and truthfully ascribe the glory to
+      the<br /> church. But in a litde while, when more railroads<br /> are built,
+      when telegraphs connect her people with<br /> the civilized world, a spirit
+      of doubt, of investigation,<br /> will manifest itself in Portugal.<br />
+      <br /> When the people stop counting beads, and go to<br /> the study of
+      mathematics; when they think more of<br /> plows than of prayers for
+      agricultural purposes; when<br /> they find that one fact gives more light
+      to the mind<br /> than a thousand tapers, and that nothing can by any<br />
+      possibility be more useless than a priest,&mdash;then Por-<br /> tugal will
+      begin to cease to be what is called a<br /> Christian nation.<br /> <br /> I
+      admit that Austria, with her thirty-seven millions,<br /> is a Christian
+      nation&mdash;including her Croats, Hungar-<br /> ians, Servians, and
+      Gypsies. Austria was one of the<br /> assassins of Poland. When we remember
+      that John<br /> <br /> 329<br /> <br /> Sobieski drove the Mohammedans from
+      the gates of<br /> Vienna, and rescued from the hand of the "infidel"<br />
+      the beleagured city, the propriety of calling Austria a<br /> Christian
+      nation becomes still more apparent. If one<br /> wishes to know exactly how
+      "Christian" Austria is,<br /> let him read the history of Hungary, let him
+      read<br /> the speeches of Kossuth. There is one good thing<br /> about
+      Austria: slowly but surely she is undermining<br /> the church by
+      education. Education is the enemy<br /> of superstition. Universal
+      education does away with<br /> the classes born of the tyranny of
+      ecclesiasticism&mdash;<br /> classes founded upon cunning, greed, and brute<br />
+      strength. Education also tends to do away with<br /> intellectual
+      cowardice. The educated man is his<br /> own priest, his own pope, his own
+      church.<br /> <br /> When cunning collects tolls from fear, the church<br />
+      prospers.<br /> <br /> Germany is another Christian nation. Bismarck is<br />
+      celebrated for his Christian virtues.<br /> <br /> Only a little while ago,
+      Bismarck, when a bill was<br /> under consideration for ameliorating the
+      condition<br /> of the Jews, stated publicly that Germany was a<br />
+      Christian nation, that her business was to extend<br /> and protect the
+      religion of Jesus Christ, and that<br /> being a Christian nation, no laws
+      should be passed<br /> <br /> 330<br /> <br /> ameliorating the condition of
+      the Jews. Certainly a<br /> remark like this could not have been made in
+      any<br /> other than a Christian nation. There is no freedom<br /> of the
+      press, there is no freedom of speech, in Ger-<br /> many. The Chancellor
+      has gone so far as to declare<br /> that the king is not responsible to the
+      people. Ger-<br /> many must be a Christian nation. The king gets his<br />
+      right to govern, not from his subjects, but from God.<br /> He relies upon
+      the New Testament. He is satisfied<br /> that "the powers that be in
+      Germany are ordained<br /> "of God." He is satisfied that treason against
+      the<br /> German throne is treason against Jehovah. There<br /> are millions
+      of Freethinkers in Germany. They are<br /> not in the majority, otherwise
+      there would be more<br /> liberty in that country. Germany is not an
+      infidel<br /> nation, or speech would be free, and every man<br /> would be
+      allowed to express his honest thoughts.<br /> <br /> Wherever I see Liberty
+      in chains, wherever the<br /> expression of opinion is a crime, I know that
+      that<br /> country is not infidel; I know that the people are not<br />
+      ruled by reason. I also know that the greatest men<br /> of Germany&mdash;her
+      Freethinkers, her scientists, her<br /> writers, her philosophers, are, for
+      the most part, in-<br /> fidel. Yet Germany is called a Christian nation,
+      and<br /> ought to be so called until her citizens are free.<br /> <br /> 331<br />
+      <br /> France is also claimed as a Christian country. This<br /> is not
+      entirely true. France once was thoroughly<br /> Catholic, completely
+      Christian. At the time of the<br /> massacre of Saint Bartholomew, the
+      French were<br /> Christians. Christian France made exiles of the<br />
+      Huguenots. Christian France for years and years<br /> was the property of
+      the Jesuits. Christian France<br /> was ignorant, cruel, orthodox and
+      infamous. When<br /> France was Christian, witnesses were cross-examined<br />
+      with instruments of torture.<br /> <br /> Now France is not entirely under
+      Catholic control,<br /> and yet she is by far the most prosperous nation in<br />
+      Europe. I saw, only the other day, a letter from a<br /> Protestant bishop,
+      in which he states that there are<br /> only about a million Protestants in
+      France, and only<br /> four or five millions of Catholics, and admits, in a<br />
+      very melancholy way, that thirty-four or thirty-five<br /> millions are
+      Freethinkers. The bishop is probably<br /> mistaken in his figures, but
+      France is the best housed,<br /> the best fed, the best clad country in
+      Europe.<br /> <br /> Only a little while ago, France was overrun, trampled<br />
+      into the very earth, by the victorious hosts of Ger-<br /> many, and France
+      purchased her peace with the<br /> savings of centuries. And yet France is
+      now rich and<br /> prosperous and free, and Germany poor, discontented<br />
+      <br /> 332<br /> <br /> and enslaved. Hundreds and thousands of Germans,<br />
+      unable to find liberty at home, are coming to the<br /> United States.<br />
+      <br /> I admit that England is a Christian country. Any<br /> doubts upon
+      this point can be dispelled by reading<br /> her history&mdash;her career
+      in India, what she has done<br /> in China, her treatment of Ireland, of
+      the American<br /> Colonies, her attitude during our Civil war; all these<br />
+      things show conclusively that England is a Christian<br /> nation.<br />
+      <br /> Religion has filled Great Britain with war. The<br /> history of the
+      Catholics, of the Episcopalians, of<br /> Cromwell&mdash;all the burnings,
+      the maimings, the brand-<br /> ings, the imprisonments, the confiscations,
+      the civil<br /> wars, the bigotry, the crime&mdash;show conclusively that<br />
+      Great Britain has enjoyed to the full the blessings of<br /> "our most holy
+      religion."<br /> <br /> Of course, Mr. Talmage claims the United States<br />
+      as a Christian country. The truth is, our country is<br /> not as Christian
+      as it once was. When heretics were<br /> hanged in New England, when the
+      laws of Virginia<br /> and Maryland provided that the tongue of any man<br />
+      who denied the doctrine of the Trinity should be<br /> bored with hot
+      iron,, and that for the second offence<br /> he should suffer death, I
+      admit that this country was<br /> <br /> 333<br /> <br /> Christian. When we
+      engaged in the slave trade,<br /> when our flag protected piracy and murder
+      in every<br /> sea, there is not the slightest doubt that the United<br />
+      States was a Christian country. When we believed<br /> in slavery, and when
+      we deliberately stole the labor<br /> of four millions of people; when we
+      sold women<br /> and babes, and when the people of the North<br /> enacted a
+      law by virtue of which every Northern<br /> man was bound to turn hound and
+      pursue a human<br /> being who was endeavoring to regain his liberty, I<br />
+      admit that the United States was a Christian nation.<br /> I admit that all
+      these things were upheld by the Bible<br /> &mdash;that the slave trader
+      was justified by the Old Testa-<br /> ment, that the bloodhound was a kind
+      of missionary<br /> in disguise, that the auction block was an altar, the<br />
+      slave pen a kind of church, and that the whipping-<br /> post was
+      considered almost as sacred as the cross.<br /> At that time, our country
+      was a Christian nation.<br /> <br /> I heard Frederick Douglass say that he
+      lectured<br /> against slavery for twenty years before the doors<br /> of a
+      single church were opened to him. In New<br /> England, hundreds of
+      ministers were driven from<br /> their pulpits because they preached
+      against the<br /> crime of human slavery. At that time, this country<br />
+      was a Christian nation.<br /> <br /> 334<br /> <br /> Only a few years ago,
+      any man speaking in favor<br /> of the rights of man, endeavoring to break
+      a chain<br /> from a human limb, was in danger of being mobbed<br /> by the
+      Christians of this country. I admit that Dela-<br /> ware is still a
+      Christian State. I heard a story about<br /> that State the other day.<br />
+      <br /> About fifty years ago, an old Revolutionary soldier<br /> applied for
+      a pension. He was asked his age, and he<br /> replied that he was fifty
+      years old. He was told that<br /> if that was his age, he could not have
+      been in the<br /> Revolutionary War, and consequently was not en-<br />
+      titled to any pension. He insisted, however, that he<br /> was only fifty
+      years old. Again they told him that<br /> there must be some mistake. He
+      was so wrinkled,<br /> so bowed, had so many marks of age, that he must<br />
+      certainly be more than fifty years old. "Well," said<br /> the old man, "if
+      I must explain, I will: I lived forty<br /> "years in Delaware; but I never
+      counted that time,<br /> "and I hope God won't."<br /> <br /> The fact is, we
+      have grown less and less Christian<br /> every year from 1620 until now,
+      and the fact is that<br /> we have grown more and more civilized, more and<br />
+      more charitable, nearer and nearer just.<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage speaks as
+      though all the people in<br /> what he calls the civilized world were
+      Christians. Ad-<br /> <br /> 335<br /> <br /> mitting this to be true, I find
+      that in these countries<br /> millions of men are educated, trained and
+      drilled to<br /> kill their fellow Christians. I find Europe covered<br />
+      with forts to protect Christians from Christians, and<br /> the seas filled
+      with men-of-war for the purpose of<br /> ravaging the coasts and destroying
+      the cities of Chris-<br /> tian nations. These countries are filled with
+      prisons,<br /> with workhouses, with jails and with toiling, ignorant<br />
+      and suffering millions. I find that Christians have<br /> invented most of
+      the instruments of death, that<br /> Christians are the greatest soldiers,
+      fighters, de-<br /> stroyers. I find that every Christian country is taxed<br />
+      to its utmost to support these soldiers; that every<br /> Christian nation
+      is now groaning beneath the grievous<br /> burden of monstrous debt, and
+      that nearly all these<br /> debts were contracted in waging war. These
+      bonds,<br /> these millions, these almost incalculable amounts,<br /> were
+      given to pay for shot and shell, for rifle and<br /> torpedo, for
+      men-of-war, for forts and arsenals, and<br /> all the devilish enginery of
+      death. I find that each<br /> of these nations prays to God to assist it as
+      against<br /> all others; and when one nation has overrun, ravaged<br /> and
+      pillaged another, it immediately returns thanks<br /> to the Almighty, and
+      the ravaged and pillaged kneel<br /> and thank God that it is no worse.<br />
+      <br /> 336<br /> <br /> Mr. Talmage is welcome to all the evidence he can<br />
+      find in the history of what he is pleased to call the<br /> civilized
+      nations of the world, tending to show the<br /> inspiration of the Bible.<br />
+      <br /> And right here it may be well enough to say again,<br /> that the
+      question of inspiration can not be settled by<br /> the votes of the
+      superstitious millions. It can not be<br /> affected by numbers. It must be
+      decided by each<br /> human being for himself. If every man in this world,<br />
+      with one exception, believed the Bible to be the in-<br /> spired word of
+      God, the man who was the exception<br /> could not lose his right to think,
+      to investigate, and to<br /> judge for himself.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      You do not think, then, that any of the<br /> arguments brought forward by
+      Mr. Talmage for the<br /> purpose of establishing the inspiration of the
+      Bible,<br /> are of any weight whatever?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I do
+      not. I do not see how it is possible<br /> to make poorer, weaker or better
+      arguments than he<br /> has made.<br /> <br /> Of course, there can be no
+      "evidence" of the in-<br /> spiration of the Scriptures. What is
+      "inspiration"?<br /> Did God use the prophets simply as instruments?<br />
+      Did he put his thoughts in their minds, and use their<br /> <br /> 337<br />
+      <br /> hands to make a record? Probably few Christians<br /> will agree as
+      to what they mean by "inspiration."<br /> The general idea is, that the
+      minds of the writers of<br /> the books of the Bible were controlled by the
+      divine<br /> will in such a way that they expressed, independently<br /> of
+      their own opinions, the thought of God. I believe it<br /> is admitted that
+      God did not choose the exact words,<br /> and is not responsible for the
+      punctuation or syntax.<br /> It is hard to give any reason for claiming
+      more for<br /> the Bible than is claimed by those who wrote it.<br /> There
+      is no claim of "inspiration" made by the writer<br /> of First and Second
+      Kings. Not one word about the<br /> author having been "inspired" is found
+      in the book<br /> of Job, or in Ruth, or in Chronicles, or in the Psalms,<br />
+      or Ecclesiastes, or in Solomon's Song, and nothing is<br /> said about the
+      author of the book of Esther having<br /> been "inspired." Christians now
+      say that Matthew,<br /> Mark, Luke and John were "inspired" to write the<br />
+      four gospels, and yet neither Mark, nor Luke, nor<br /> John, nor Matthew
+      claims to have been "inspired."<br /> If they were "inspired," certainly
+      they should have<br /> stated that fact. The very first thing stated in
+      each<br /> of the gospels should have been a declaration by the<br /> writer
+      that he had been "inspired," and that he was<br /> about to write the book
+      under the guidance of God,<br /> <br /> 338<br /> <br /> and at the conclusion
+      of each gospel there should<br /> have been a solemn statement that the
+      writer had<br /> put down nothing of himself, but had in all things<br />
+      followed the direction and guidance of the divine<br /> will. The church
+      now endeavors to establish the<br /> inspiration of the Bible by force, by
+      social ostracism,<br /> and by attacking the reputation of every man who<br />
+      denies or doubts. In all Christian countries, they<br /> begin with the
+      child in the cradle. Each infant is<br /> told by its mother, by its
+      father, or by some of its<br /> relatives, that "the Bible is an inspired
+      book." This<br /> pretended fact, by repetition "in season and out of<br />
+      "season," is finally burned and branded into the<br /> brain to such a
+      degree that the child of average<br /> intelligence never outgrows the
+      conviction that the<br /> Bible is, in some peculiar sense, an "inspired"
+      book.<br /> The question has to be settled for each generation.<br /> The
+      evidence is not sufficient, and the foundation of<br /> Christianity is
+      perpetually insecure. Beneath this great<br /> religious fabric there is no
+      rock. For eighteen centu-<br /> ries, hundreds and thousands and millions
+      of people<br /> have been endeavoring to establish the fact that the<br />
+      Scriptures are inspired, and since the dawn of science,<br /> since the
+      first star appeared in the night of the<br /> Middle Ages, until this
+      moment, the number of<br /> <br /> 339<br /> <br /> people who have doubted
+      the fact of inspiration<br /> has steadily increased. These doubts have not
+      been<br /> born of ignorance, they have not been suggested by<br /> the
+      unthinking. They have forced themselves upon<br /> the thoughtful, upon the
+      educated, and now the ver-<br /> dict of the intellectual world is, that
+      the Bible is not<br /> inspired. Notwithstanding the fact that the church<br />
+      has taken advantage of infancy, has endeavored to<br /> control education,
+      has filled all primers and spelling-<br /> books and readers and text books
+      with superstition&mdash;<br /> feeding all minds with the miraculous and
+      super-<br /> natural, the growth toward a belief in the natural<br /> and
+      toward the rejection of the miraculous has been<br /> steady and sturdy
+      since the sixteenth century. There<br /> has been, too, a moral growth,
+      until many passages<br /> in the Bible have become barbarous, inhuman and<br />
+      infamous. The Bible has remained the same, while<br /> the world has
+      changed. In the light of physical and<br /> moral discovery, "the inspired
+      volume" seems in<br /> many respects absurd. If the same progress is made<br />
+      in the next, as in the last, century, it is very easy to<br /> predict the
+      place that will then be occupied by the<br /> Bible. By comparing long
+      periods of time, it is easy<br /> to measure the advance of the human race.
+      Com-<br /> pare the average sermon of to-day with the average<br /> <br />
+      340<br /> <br /> sermon of one hundred years ago. Compare what<br />
+      ministers teach to-day with the creeds they profess<br /> to believe, and
+      you will see the immense distance<br /> that even the church has traveled
+      in the last century.<br /> <br /> The Christians tell us that scientific men
+      have<br /> made mistakes, and that there is very little certainty<br /> in
+      the domain of human knowledge. This I admit.<br /> The man who thought the
+      world was flat, and who<br /> had a way of accounting for the movement of
+      the<br /> heavenly bodies, had what he was pleased to call a<br />
+      philosophy. He was, in his way, a geologist and an<br /> astronomer. We
+      admit that he was mistaken; but<br /> if we claimed that the first
+      geologist and the first<br /> astronomer were inspired, it would not do for
+      us to<br /> admit that any advance had been made, or that any<br /> errors
+      of theirs had been corrected. We do not<br /> claim that the first
+      scientists were inspired. We do<br /> not claim that the last are inspired.
+      We admit that<br /> all scientific men are fallible. We admit that they do<br />
+      not know everything. We insist that they know but<br /> little, and that
+      even in that little which they are sup-<br /> posed to know, there is the
+      possibility of error. The<br /> first geologist said: "The earth is flat."
+      Suppose<br /> that the geologists of to-day should insist that that<br />
+      man was inspired, and then endeavor to show that<br /> <br /> 341<br /> <br />
+      the word "flat," in the "Hebrew," did not mean<br /> quite flat, but just a
+      little rounded; what would we<br /> think of their honesty? The first
+      astronomer in-<br /> sisted that the sun and moon and stars revolved<br />
+      around this earth&mdash;that this little earth was the centre<br /> of the
+      entire system. Suppose that the astronomers<br /> of to-day should insist
+      that that astronomer was in-<br /> spired, and should try to explain, and
+      say that he<br /> simply used the language of the common people, and<br />
+      when he stated that the sun and moon and stars re-<br /> volved around the
+      earth, he merely meant that they<br /> "apparently revolved," and that the
+      earth, in fact,<br /> turned over, would we consider them honest men?<br />
+      You might as well say that the first painter was in-<br /> spired, or that
+      the first sculptor had the assistance of<br /> God, as to say that the
+      first writer, or the first book-<br /> maker, was divinely inspired. It is
+      more probable<br /> that the modern geologist is inspired than that the an-<br />
+      cient one was, because the modern geologist is nearer<br /> right. It is
+      more probable that William Lloyd Gar-<br /> rison was inspired upon the
+      question of slavery than<br /> that Moses was. It is more probable that the
+      author<br /> of the Declaration of Independence spoke by divine<br />
+      authority than that the author of the Pentateuch did.<br /> In other words,
+      if there can be any evidence of<br /> <br /> 342<br /> <br /> "inspiration,"
+      it must lie in the fact of doing or<br /> saying the best possible thing
+      that could have been<br /> done or said at that time or upon that subject.<br />
+      <br /> To make myself clear: The only possible evidence<br /> of
+      "inspiration" would be perfection&mdash;a perfection ex-<br /> celling
+      anything that man unaided had ever attained.<br /> An "inspired" book
+      should excel all other books; an<br /> inspired statue should be the best
+      in this world; an in-<br /> spired painting should be beyond all others. If
+      the Bible<br /> has been improved in any particular, it was not, in that<br />
+      particular, ''inspired." If slavery is wrong, the Bible is<br /> not
+      inspired. If polygamy is vile and loathsome, the<br /> Bible is not
+      inspired. If wars of extermination are cruel<br /> and heartless, the Bible
+      is not "inspired." If there is<br /> within that book a contradiction of
+      any natural fact; if<br /> there is one ignorant falsehood, if there is one
+      mistake,<br /> then it is not "inspired." I do not mean mistakes that<br />
+      have grown out of translations; but if there was in<br /> the original
+      manuscript one mistake, then it is not<br /> "inspired." I do not demand a
+      miracle; I do not<br /> demand a knowledge of the future; I simply demand<br />
+      an absolute knowledge of the past. I demand an ab-<br /> solute knowledge
+      of the then present; I demand a<br /> knowledge of the constitution of the
+      human mind&mdash;<br /> of the facts in nature, and that is all I demand.<br />
+      <br /> 343<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If I understand you, you think that
+      all<br /> political power should come from the people; do you<br /> not
+      believe in any "special providence," and do you<br /> take the ground that
+      God does not interest himself<br /> in the affairs of nations and
+      individuals?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The Christian idea is that God made
+      the<br /> world, and made certain laws for the government of<br /> matter
+      and mind, and that he never interferes except<br /> upon special occasions,
+      when the ordinary laws fail to<br /> work out the desired end. Their notion
+      is, that the<br /> Lord now and then stops the horses simply to show<br />
+      that he is driving. It seems to me that if an infinitely<br /> wise being
+      made the world, he must have made it<br /> the best possible; and that if
+      he made laws for the<br /> government of matter and mind, he must have made<br />
+      the best possible laws. If this is true, not one of<br /> these laws can be
+      violated without producing a posi-<br /> tive injury. It does not seem
+      probable that infinite<br /> wisdom would violate a law that infinite
+      wisdom had<br /> made.<br /> <br /> Most ministers insist that God now and
+      then in-<br /> terferes in the affairs of this world; that he has not<br />
+      interfered as much lately as he did formerly. When<br /> the world was
+      comparatively new, it required alto-<br /> gether more tinkering and fixing
+      than at present.<br /> <br /> 344<br /> <br /> Things are at last in a
+      reasonably good condition,<br /> and consequently a great amount of
+      interference is<br /> not necessary. In old times it was found necessary
+      fre-<br /> quently to raise the dead, to change the nature of fire<br /> and
+      water, to punish people with plagues and famine,<br /> to destroy cities by
+      storms of fire and brimstone, to<br /> change women into salt, to cast
+      hailstones upon<br /> heathen, to interfere with the movements of our<br />
+      planetary system, to stop the earth not only, but<br /> sometimes to make
+      it turn the other way, to arrest<br /> the moon, and to make water stand up
+      like a wall.<br /> Now and then, rivers were divided by striking them<br />
+      with a coat, and people were taken to heaven in<br /> chariots of fire.
+      These miracles, in addition to curing<br /> the sick, the halt, the deaf
+      and blind, were in former<br /> times found necessary, but since the
+      "apostolic age,"<br /> nothing of the kind has been resorted to except in<br />
+      Catholic countries. Since the death of the last<br /> apostle, God has
+      appeared only to members of the<br /> Catholic Church, and all modern
+      miracles have been<br /> performed for the benefit of Catholicism. There is<br />
+      no authentic account of the Virgin Mary having ever<br /> appeared to a
+      Protestant. The bones of Protestant<br /> saints have never cured a
+      solitary disease. Protest-<br /> ants now say that the testimony of the
+      Catholics can<br /> <br /> 345<br /> <br /> not be relied upon, and yet, the
+      authenticity of every<br /> book in the New Testament was established by
+      Cath-<br /> olic testimony. Some few miracles were performed<br /> in
+      Scotland, and in fact in England and the United<br /> States, but they were
+      so small that they are hardly<br /> worth mentioning. Now and then, a man
+      was struck<br /> dead for taking the name of the Lord in vain. Now<br /> and
+      then, people were drowned who were found in<br /> boats on Sunday. Whenever
+      anybody was about to<br /> commit murder, God has not interfered&mdash;the
+      reason<br /> being that he gave man free-will, and expects to hold<br /> him
+      accountable in another world, and there is no<br /> exception to this
+      free-will doctrine, but in cases<br /> where men swear or violate the
+      Sabbath. They are<br /> allowed to commit all other crimes without any in-<br />
+      terference on the part of the Lord.<br /> <br /> My own opinion is, that the
+      clergy found it neces-<br /> sary to preserve the Sabbath for their own
+      uses, and<br /> for that reason endeavored to impress the people<br /> with
+      the enormity of its violation, and for that purpose<br /> gave instances of
+      people being drowned and suddenly<br /> struck dead for working or amusing
+      themselves on that<br /> day. The clergy have objected to any other places
+      of<br /> amusement except their own, being opened on that<br /> day. They
+      wished to compel people either to go to<br /> <br /> 346<br /> <br /> church
+      or stay at home. They have also known<br /> that profanity tended to do
+      away with the feelings<br /> of awe they wished to cultivate, and for that
+      reason<br /> they have insisted that swearing was one of the most<br />
+      terrible of crimes, exciting above all others the wrath<br /> of God.<br />
+      <br /> There was a time when people fell dead for having<br /> spoken
+      disrespectfully to a priest. The priest at that<br /> time pretended to be
+      the visible representative of<br /> God, and as such, entitled to a degree
+      of reverence<br /> amounting almost to worship. Several cases are<br />
+      given in the ecclesiastical history of Scotland where<br /> men were
+      deprived of speech for having spoken<br /> rudely to a parson.<br /> <br />
+      These stories were calculated to increase the im-<br /> portance of the
+      clergy and to convince people that<br /> they were under the special care
+      of the Deity. The<br /> story about the bears devouring the little children<br />
+      was told in the first place, and has been repeated<br /> since, simply to
+      protect ministers from the laughter<br /> of children. There ought to be
+      carved on each side<br /> of every pulpit a bear with fragments of children
+      in<br /> its mouth, as this animal has done so much to protect<br /> the
+      dignity of the clergy.<br /> <br /> Besides the protection of ministers, the
+      drowning<br /> <br /> 347<br /> <br /> of breakers of the Sabbath, and
+      striking a few people<br /> dead for using profane language, I think there
+      is no<br /> evidence of any providential interference in the affairs<br />
+      of this world in what may be called modern times.<br /> Ministers have
+      endeavored to show that great calam-<br /> ities have been brought upon
+      nations and cities as a<br /> punishment for the wickedness of the people.
+      They<br /> have insisted that some countries have been visited<br /> with
+      earthquakes because the people had failed to<br /> discharge their
+      religious duties; but as earthquakes<br /> happened in uninhabited
+      countries, and often at sea,<br /> where no one is hurt, most people have
+      concluded<br /> that they are not sent as punishments. They have<br />
+      insisted that cities have been burned as a punish-<br /> ment, and to show
+      the indignation of the Lord, but<br /> at the same time they have admitted
+      that if the<br /> streets had been wider, the fire departments better<br />
+      organized, and wooden buildings fewer, the design<br /> of the Lord would
+      have been frustrated.<br /> <br /> After reading the history of the world,
+      it is some-<br /> what difficult to find which side the Lord is really on.<br />
+      He has allowed Catholics to overwhelm and de-<br /> stroy Protestants, and
+      then he has allowed Protestants<br /> to overwhelm and destroy Catholics.
+      He has allowed<br /> Christianity to triumph over Paganism, and he allowed<br />
+      <br /> 348<br /> <br /> Mohammedans to drive back the hosts of the cross<br />
+      from the sepulchre of his son. It is curious that this<br /> God would
+      allow the slave trade to go on, and yet<br /> punish the violators of the
+      Sabbath. It is simply<br /> wonderful that he would allow kings to wage
+      cruel<br /> and remorseless war, to sacrifice millions upon the<br /> altar
+      of heartless ambition, and at the same time<br /> strike a man dead for
+      taking his name in vain. It is<br /> wonderful that he allowed slavery to
+      exist for centu-<br /> ries in the United States; that he allows polygamy<br />
+      now in Utah; that he cares nothing for liberty in<br /> Russia, nothing for
+      free speech in Germany, nothing<br /> for the sorrows of the overworked,
+      underpaid millions<br /> of the world; that he cares nothing for the
+      innocent<br /> languishing in prisons, nothing for the patriots con-<br />
+      demned to death, nothing for the heart-broken<br /> widows and orphans,
+      nothing for the starving, and<br /> yet has ample time to note a sparrow's
+      fall. If he<br /> would only strike dead the would-be murderers; if<br /> he
+      would only palsy the hands of husbands' uplifted<br /> to strike their
+      wives; if he would render speechless<br /> the cursers of children, he
+      could afford to overlook<br /> the swearers and breakers of his Sabbath.<br />
+      <br /> For one, I am not satisfied with the government<br /> of this world,
+      and I am going to do what little I can<br /> <br /> 349<br /> <br /> to make
+      it better. I want more thought and less<br /> fear, more manhood and less
+      superstition, less prayer<br /> and more help, more education, more reason,
+      more<br /> intellectual hospitality, and above all, and over all,<br /> more
+      liberty and kindness.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that God,
+      if there be one,<br /> when he saves or damns a man, will take into con-<br />
+      sideration all the circumstances of the man's life?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Suppose that two orphan boys, James<br /> and John, are given homes. James
+      is taken into a<br /> Christian family and John into an infidel. James<br />
+      becomes a Christian, and dies in the faith. John be-<br /> comes an
+      infidel, and dies without faith in Christ.<br /> According to the Christian
+      religion, as commonly<br /> preached, James will go to heaven, and John to
+      hell.<br /> <br /> Now, suppose that God knew that if James had<br /> been
+      raised by the infidel family, he would have died<br /> an infidel, and that
+      if John had been raised by the<br /> Christian family, he would have died a
+      Christian.<br /> What then? Recollect that the boys did not choose<br /> the
+      families in which they were placed.<br /> <br /> Suppose that a child, cast
+      away upon an island in<br /> which he found plenty of food, grew to
+      manhood;<br /> and suppose that after he had reached mature years,<br />
+      <br /> 350<br /> <br /> the island was visited by a missionary who taught a<br />
+      false religion; and suppose that this islander was con-<br /> vinced that
+      he ought to worship a wooden idol; and<br /> suppose, further, that the
+      worship consisted in sacri-<br /> ficing animals; and suppose the islander,
+      actuated<br /> only by what he conceived to be his duty and by<br />
+      thankfulness, sacrificed a toad every night and every<br /> morning upon
+      the altar of his wooden god; that<br /> when the sky looked black and
+      threatening he sacri-<br /> ficed two toads; that when feeling unwell he
+      sacrificed<br /> three; and suppose that in all this he was honest, that<br />
+      he really believed that the shedding of toad-blood<br /> would soften the
+      heart of his god toward him? And<br /> suppose that after he had become
+      fully-convinced<br /> of the truth of his religion, a missionary of the<br />
+      "true religion" should visit the island, and tell the<br /> history of the
+      Jews&mdash;unfold the whole scheme of<br /> salvation? And suppose that the
+      islander should<br /> honestly reject the true religion? Suppose he should<br />
+      say that he had "internal evidence" not only, but<br /> that many miracles
+      had been performed by his god,<br /> in his behalf; that often when the sky
+      was black<br /> with storm, he had sacrificed a toad, and in a few<br />
+      moments the sun was again visible, the heavens blue,<br /> and without a
+      cloud; that on several occasions, having<br /> <br /> 351<br /> <br />
+      forgotten at evening to sacrifice his toad, he found<br /> himself unable
+      to sleep&mdash;that his conscience smote<br /> him, he had risen, made the
+      sacrifice, returned to his<br /> bed, and in a few moments sunk into a
+      serene and<br /> happy slumber? And suppose, further, that the man<br />
+      honestly believed that the efficacy of the sacrifice<br /> depended largely
+      on the size of the toad? Now<br /> suppose that in this belief the man had
+      died,&mdash;what<br /> then?<br /> <br /> It must be remembered that God knew
+      when the<br /> missionary of the false religion went to the island;<br />
+      and knew that the islander would be convinced of the<br /> truth of the
+      false religion; and he also knew that the<br /> missionary of the true
+      religion could not, by any<br /> possibility, convince the islander of the
+      error of his<br /> way; what then?<br /> <br /> If God is infinite, we cannot
+      speak of him as<br /> making efforts, as being tired. We cannot con-<br />
+      sistently say that one thing is easy to him, and<br /> another thing is
+      hard, providing both are possible.<br /> This being so, why did not God
+      reveal himself to<br /> every human being? Instead of having an inspired<br />
+      book, why did he not make inspired folks? Instead<br /> of having his
+      commandments put on tables of stone,<br /> why did he not write them on
+      each human brain?<br /> <br /> 352<br /> <br /> Why was not the mind of each
+      man so made that<br /> every religious truth necessary to his salvation was<br />
+      an axiom?<br /> <br /> Do we not know absolutely that man is greatly<br />
+      influenced by his surroundings? If Mr. Talmage<br /> had been born in
+      Turkey, is it not probable that<br /> he would now be a whirling Dervish?
+      If he had<br /> first seen the light in Central Africa, he might now<br />
+      have been prostrate before some enormous serpent;<br /> if in India, he
+      might have been a Brahmin, running a<br /> prayer-machine; if in Spain, he
+      would probably have<br /> been a priest, with his beads and holy water. Had<br />
+      he been born among the North American Indians,<br /> he would speak of the
+      "Great Spirit," and solemnly<br /> smoke the the pipe of peace.<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Talmage teaches that it is the duty of children<br /> to perpetuate the
+      errors of their parents; conse-<br /> quently, the religion of his parents
+      determined his<br /> theology. It is with him not a question of reason,<br />
+      but of parents; not a question of argument, but of<br /> filial affection.
+      He does not wish to be a philoso-<br /> pher, but an obedient son. Suppose
+      his father had<br /> been a Catholic, and his mother a Protestant,&mdash;what<br />
+      then? Would he show contempt for his mother by<br /> following the path of
+      his father; or would he show<br /> <br /> 353<br /> <br /> disrespect for his
+      father, by accepting the religion of<br /> his mother; or would he have
+      become a Protestant<br /> with Catholic proclivities, or a Catholic with
+      Protest-<br /> ant leanings? Suppose his parents had both been<br />
+      infidels&mdash;what then?<br /> <br /> Is it not better for each one to
+      decide honestly for<br /> himself? Admitting that your parents were good
+      and<br /> kind; admitting that they were honest in their views,<br /> why
+      not have the courage to say, that in your opinion,<br /> father and mother
+      were both mistaken? No one can<br /> honor his parents by being a
+      hypocrite, or an intellectu-<br /> al coward. Whoever is absolutely true to
+      himself, is<br /> true to his parents, and true to the whole world. Who-<br />
+      ever is untrue to himself, is false to all mankind. Re-<br /> ligion must
+      be an individual matter. If there is a God,<br /> and if there is a day of
+      judgment, the church that a man<br /> belongs to will not be tried, but the
+      man will be tried.<br /> <br /> It is a fact that the religion of most
+      people was made<br /> for them by others; that they have accepted certain<br />
+      dogmas, not because they have examined them, but<br /> because they were
+      told that they were true. Most of<br /> the people in the United States,
+      had they been born in<br /> Turkey, would now be Mohammedans, and most of<br />
+      the Turks, had they been born in Spain, would now<br /> be Catholics.<br />
+      <br /> 354<br /> <br /> It is almost, if not quite, impossible for a man to<br />
+      rise entirely above the ideas, views, doctrines and re-<br /> ligions of
+      his tribe or country. No one expects to<br /> find philosophers in Central
+      Africa, or scientists<br /> among the Fejees. No one expects to find
+      philoso-<br /> phers or scientists in any country where the church<br /> has
+      absolute control.<br /> <br /> If there is an infinitely good and wise God,
+      of<br /> course he will take into consideration the surround-<br /> ings of
+      every human being. He understands the<br /> philosophy of environment, and
+      of heredity. He<br /> knows exactly the influence of the mother, of all<br />
+      associates, of all associations. He will also take into<br /> consideration
+      the amount, quality and form of each<br /> brain, and whether the brain was
+      healthy or diseased.<br /> He will take into consideration the strength of
+      the<br /> passions, the weakness of the judgment. He will<br /> know exactly
+      the force of all temptation&mdash;what was<br /> resisted. He will take an
+      account of every effort<br /> made in the right direction, and will
+      understand<br /> all the winds and waves and quicksands and shores<br /> and
+      shallows in, upon and around the sea of every<br /> life.<br /> <br /> My own
+      opinion is, that if such a being exists, and<br /> all these things are
+      taken into consideration, we will<br /> <br /> 355<br /> <br /> be absolutely
+      amazed to see how small the difference<br /> is between the "good" and the
+      "bad." Certainly<br /> there is no such difference as would justify a being<br />
+      of infinite wisdom and benevolence in rewarding one<br /> with eternal joy
+      and punishing the other with eternal<br /> pain.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What are the principal reasons that<br /> have satisfied you that the Bible
+      is not an inspired<br /> book?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The great evils
+      that have afflicted this<br /> world are:<br /> <br /> <i>First</i>. Human
+      slavery&mdash;where men have bought<br /> and sold their fellow-men&mdash;sold
+      babes from mothers,<br /> and have practiced) every conceivable cruelty
+      upon<br /> the helpless.<br /> <br /> <i>Second</i>. Polygamy&mdash;an
+      institution that destroys<br /> the home, that treats woman as a simple
+      chattel, that<br /> does away with the sanctity of marriage, and with all<br />
+      that is sacred in love.<br /> <br /> <i>Third</i>. Wars of conquest and
+      extermination&mdash;<br /> by which nations have been made the food of the<br />
+      sword.<br /> <br /> <i>Fourth</i>. The idea entertained by each nation that<br />
+      all other nations are destitute of rights&mdash;in other<br /> <br /> 356<br />
+      <br /> words, patriotism founded upon egotism, prejudice,<br /> and love of
+      plunder.<br /> <br /> <i>Fifth</i>. Religious persecution.<br /> <br /> <i>Sixth</i>.
+      The divine right of kings&mdash;an idea that<br /> rests upon the
+      inequality of human rights, and insists<br /> that people should be
+      governed without their con-<br /> sent; that the right of one man to govern
+      another<br /> comes from God, and not from the consent of the<br />
+      governed. This is caste&mdash;one of the most odious<br /> forms of
+      slavery.<br /> <br /> <i>Seventh</i>. A belief in malicious supernatural be-<br />
+      ings&mdash;devils, witches, and wizards.<br /> <br /> <i>Eighth</i>. A
+      belief in an infinite being who or-<br /> dered, commanded, established and
+      approved all<br /> these evils.<br /> <br /> <i>Ninth</i>. The idea that one
+      man can be good for<br /> another, or bad for another&mdash;that is to say,
+      that one<br /> can be rewarded for the goodness of another, or<br /> justly
+      punished for the sins of another.<br /> <br /> <i>Tenth</i>. The dogma that
+      a finite being can commit<br /> an infinite sin, and thereby incur the
+      eternal dis-<br /> pleasure of an infinitely good being, and be justly<br />
+      subjected to eternal torment.<br /> <br /> My principal objection to the
+      Bible is that it sus-<br /> tains all of these ten evils&mdash;that it is
+      the advocate of<br /> <br /> 357<br /> <br /> human slavery, the friend of
+      polygamy; that within<br /> its pages I find the command to wage wars of
+      ex-<br /> termination; that I find also that the Jews were<br /> taught to
+      hate foreigners&mdash;to consider all human<br /> beings as inferior to
+      themselves; I also find persecu-<br /> tion commanded as a religious duty;
+      that kings were<br /> seated upon their thrones by the direct act of God,<br />
+      and that to rebel against a king was rebellion against<br /> God. I object
+      to the Bible also because I find within<br /> its pages the infamous spirit
+      of caste&mdash;I see the sons<br /> of Levi set apart as the perpetual
+      beggars and<br /> governors of a people; because I find the air filled<br />
+      with demons seeking to injure and betray the sons<br /> of men; because
+      this book is the fountain of modern<br /> superstition, the bulwark of
+      tyranny and the fortress<br /> of caste. This book also subverts the idea
+      of justice<br /> by threatening infinite punishment for the sins of a<br />
+      finite being.<br /> <br /> At the same time, I admit&mdash;as I always have
+      ad-<br /> mitted&mdash;that there are good passages in the Bible&mdash;<br />
+      good laws, good teachings, with now and then a true<br /> line of history.
+      But when it is asserted that every<br /> word was written by inspiration&mdash;that
+      a being of in-<br /> finite wisdom and goodness is its author,&mdash;then<br />
+      I raise the standard of revolt.<br /> <br /> 358<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What do you think of the declaration<br /> of Mr. Talmage that the Bible
+      will be read in heaven<br /> throughout all the endless ages of eternity?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course I know but very little as to<br /> what is
+      or will be done in heaven. My knowledge<br /> of that country is somewhat
+      limited, and it may be<br /> possible that the angels will spend most of
+      their time<br /> in turning over the sacred leaves of the Old Testa-<br />
+      ment. I can not positively deny the statement of the<br /> Reverend Mr.
+      Talmage as I have but very little idea<br /> as to how the angels manage to
+      kill time.<br /> <br /> The Reverend Mr. Spurgeon stated in a sermon<br />
+      that some people wondered what they would do<br /> through all eternity in
+      heaven. He said that, as for<br /> himself, for the first hundred thousand
+      years he<br /> would look at the wound in one of the Savior's<br /> feet,
+      and for the next hundred thousand years he<br /> would look at the wound in
+      his other foot, and<br /> for the next hundred thousand years he would<br />
+      look at the wound in one of his hands, and for<br /> the next hundred
+      thousand years he would look at<br /> the wound in the other hand, and for
+      the next<br /> hundred thousand years he would look at the wound<br /> in
+      his side.<br /> <br /> Surely, nothing could be more delightful than this<br />
+      <br /> 359<br /> <br /> A man capable of being happy in such employment,<br />
+      could of course take great delight in reading even<br /> the genealogies of
+      the Old Testament. It is very<br /> easy to see what a glow of joy would
+      naturally over-<br /> spread the face of an angel while reading the history<br />
+      of the Jewish wars, how the seraphim and cherubim<br /> would clasp their
+      rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate<br /> of Korah and his company, and
+      what laughter would<br /> wake the echoes of the New Jerusalem as some one<br />
+      told again the story of the children and the bears;<br /> and what happy
+      groups, with folded pinions, would<br /> smilingly listen to the 109th
+      Psalm.<br /> <br /> [Illustration: 371]<br /> <br /> An orthodox "state of
+      mind"<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <a name="link0009" id="link0009"></a><br />
+      <br /> <big><b>THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.</b></big><br /> <br /> <i>As Mr.
+      Talmage delivered the series of sermons<br /> referred to in these
+      interviews, for the purpose<br /> of furnishing arguments to the young, so
+      that they<br /> might not be misled by the sophistry of modern<br />
+      infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth,<br /> for use in Sunday
+      schools, the pith and marrow of<br /> what he has been pleased to say, in
+      the form of</i><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <big><b>A SHORTER CATECHISM.</b></big><br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Who made you?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Jehovah,
+      the original Presbyterian.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What else did he
+      make?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He made the world and all things.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he make the world out of nothing?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      No.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did he make it out of?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels<br /> have pretended that if God
+      made the universe, and if<br /> there was nothing until he did make it, he
+      had nothing<br /> to make it out of. Of course this is perfectly absurd<br />
+      when we remember that he always had his "omnipo-<br /> tence and that is,
+      undoubtedly, the material used.<br /> <br /> 364<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did he create his own "omnipotence"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly
+      not, he was always omnipo-<br /> tent.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then if
+      he always had "omnipotence,"<br /> he did not "create" the material of
+      which the uni-<br /> verse is made; he simply took a portion of his<br />
+      "omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Certainly, that is the way I under-<br /> stand it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Is he still omnipotent, and has he as<br /> much "omnipotence" now as he
+      ever had?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, I suppose he has.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How long did it take God to make the<br /> universe?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Six "good-whiles."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How long is a "good-while"?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. That will depend upon the future dis-<br /> coveries
+      of geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such<br /> a nature that they can be
+      pulled out, or pushed up;<br /> and it is utterly impossible for any
+      infidel, or scien-<br /> tific geologist, to make any period that a
+      "good-while"<br /> won't fit.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you
+      understand by "the<br /> "morning and evening" of a "good-while"?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course the words "morning and<br /> <br /> 365<br />
+      <br /> "evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply<br /> the beginning
+      and the ending, of each "good-while."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. On what
+      day did God make vegetation?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. On the third day.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was that before the sun was made?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Yes; a "good-while" before.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How did vegetation
+      grow without sun-<br /> light?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. My own opinion is,
+      that it was either<br /> "nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon<br />
+      or "it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers<br /> "of molten
+      granite;" or, "sufficient light might have<br /> "been emitted by the
+      crystallization of rocks." It<br /> has been suggested that light might
+      have been fur-<br /> nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and<br />
+      worms, but this I regard as going too far.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do
+      you think that light emitted by<br /> rocks would be sufficient to produce
+      trees?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora<br />
+      "Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with<br /> both, most
+      assuredly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If the light of which you speak was<br />
+      sufficient, why was the sun made?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. To keep time
+      with.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did God make man of?<br /> <br /> 366<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He made man of dust and "omnipo-<br /> "tence."<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he make a woman at the same<br /> time that he
+      made a man?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No; he thought at one time to avoid<br />
+      the necessity of making a woman, and he caused all<br /> the animals to
+      pass before Adam, to see what he<br /> would call them, and to see whether
+      a fit companion<br /> could be found for him. Among them all, not one<br />
+      suited Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he<br /> would have to make
+      an help-meet on purpose.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What was woman made
+      of?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. She was made out of "man's side, out of<br />
+      his right side," and some more "omnipotence." Infi-<br /> dels say that she
+      was made out of a rib, or a bone, but<br /> that is because they do not
+      understand Hebrew.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What was the object of
+      making woman<br /> out of man's side?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. So that a
+      young man would think more<br /> of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle
+      or grand-<br /> father.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did God do with
+      Adam and Eve<br /> after he got them done?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He put
+      them into a garden to see what<br /> they would do.<br /> <br /> 367<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do we know where the Garden of Eden<br /> was, and
+      have we ever found any place where a<br /> "river parted and became into
+      four heads"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. We are not certain where this
+      garden<br /> was, and the river that parted into four heads cannot<br /> at
+      present be found. Infidels have had a great deal<br /> to say about these
+      four rivers, but they will wish<br /> they had even one, one of these days.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What happened to Adam and Eve in<br /> the garden?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They were tempted by a snake who was<br /> an
+      exceedingly good talker, and who probably came<br /> in walking on the end
+      of his tail. This supposition<br /> is based upon the fact that, as a
+      punishment, he was<br /> condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that time,<br />
+      of course, he walked upright.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What happened
+      then?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Our first parents gave way, ate of the<br />
+      forbidden fruit, and in consequence, disease and<br /> death entered the
+      world. Had it not been for this,<br /> there would have been no death and
+      no disease.<br /> Suicide would have been impossible, and a man<br /> could
+      have been blown into a thousand atoms by<br /> dynamite, and the pieces
+      would immediately have<br /> come together again. Fire would have refused
+      to<br /> <br /> 368<br /> <br /> burn and water to drown; there could have
+      been no<br /> hunger, no thirst; all things would have been equally<br />
+      healthy.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you mean to say that there would<br />
+      have been no death in the world, either of animals,<br /> insects, or
+      persons?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you also think that all briers and<br /> thorns sprang from the same
+      source, and that had<br /> the apple not been eaten, no bush in the world<br />
+      would have had a thorn, and brambles and thistles<br /> would have been
+      unknown?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Would there have been no poisonous<br /> plants, no poisonous reptiles?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No, sir; there would have been none;<br /> there would
+      have been no evil in the world if Adam<br /> and Eve had not partaken of
+      the forbidden fruit.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was the snake who tempted
+      them to<br /> eat, evil?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly. '<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Was he in the world before the for-<br /> bidden fruit was
+      eaten?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course he was; he tempted them to<br />
+      eat it<br /> <br /> 369<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How, then, do you
+      account for the fact<br /> that, before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an
+      evil<br /> serpent was in the world?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Perhaps
+      apples had been eaten in other<br /> worlds.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is
+      it not wonderful that such awful con-<br /> sequences flowed from so small
+      an act?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is not for you to reason about it;
+      you<br /> should simply remember that God is omnipotent.<br /> There is but
+      one way to answer these things, and<br /> that is to admit their truth.
+      Nothing so puts the<br /> Infinite out of temper as to see a human being<br />
+      impudent enough to rely upon his reason. The<br /> moment we rely upon our
+      reason, we abandon God,<br /> and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever
+      relies<br /> entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and<br /> reason has
+      no need of him.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Were our first parents under
+      the im-<br /> mediate protection of an infinite God?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      They were.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why did he not protect them? Why<br />
+      did he not warn them of this snake? Why did he<br /> not put them on their
+      guard? Why did he not<br /> make them so sharp, intellectually, that they
+      could<br /> not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that<br /> <br /> 370<br />
+      <br /> snake; or how did he come to make him; what did<br /> he make him
+      for?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. You must remember that, although God<br />
+      made Adam and Eve perfectly good, still he was very<br /> anxious to test
+      them. He also gave them the power<br /> of choice, knowing at the same time
+      exactly what they<br /> would choose, and knowing that he had made them<br />
+      so that they must choose in a certain way. A being<br /> of infinite wisdom
+      tries experiments. Knowing ex-<br /> actly what will happen, he wishes to
+      see if it will.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What punishment did God
+      inflict upon<br /> Adam and Eve for the sin of having eaten the for-<br />
+      bidden fruit?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He pronounced a curse upon the
+      woman,<br /> saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children,<br />
+      and that her husband should rule over her; that she,<br /> having tempted
+      her husband, was made his slave;<br /> and through her, all married women
+      have been de-<br /> prived of their natural liberty. On account of the<br />
+      sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying<br /> that it should
+      bring forth thorns and thistles, and<br /> that man should eat his bread in
+      sorrow, and that he<br /> should eat the herb of the field.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did he turn them out of the garden<br /> because of their sin?<br /> <br />
+      371<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No. The reason God gave for turning<br />
+      them out of the garden was: "Behold the man is<br /> "become as one of us,
+      to know good and evil; and<br /> "now, lest he put forth his hand and take
+      of the<br /> "tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the<br />
+      "Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden<br /> "to till the ground
+      from whence he was taken."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If the man had
+      eaten of the tree of life,<br /> would he have lived forever?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was he turned out to prevent his<br />
+      eating?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He was.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then
+      the Old Testament tells us how we<br /> lost immortality, not that we are
+      immortal, does it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; it tells us how we lost
+      it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve<br />
+      might get back into the garden, and eat of the fruit<br /> of the tree of
+      life?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher-<br />
+      "ubim and a flaming sword which turned every<br /> "way to guard the tree
+      of life."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Has any one ever seen any of these<br />
+      cherubim?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Not that I know of.<br /> <br /> 372<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Where is the flaming sword now?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Some angel has it in heaven.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you understand
+      that God made<br /> coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve when<br /> he
+      turned them out of the garden?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, sir.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you really believe that the infinite<br /> God
+      killed some animals, took their skins from them,<br /> cut out and sewed up
+      clothes for Adam and Eve?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The Bible says so; we
+      know that he<br /> had patterns for clothes, because he showed some<br /> to
+      Moses on Mount Sinai.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. About how long did God
+      continue<br /> to pay particular attention to his children in this<br />
+      world?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. For about fifteen hundred years; and<br />
+      some of the people lived to be nearly a thousand<br /> years of age.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did this God establish any schools or<br />
+      institutions of learning? Did he establish any church?<br /> Did he ordain
+      any ministers, or did he have any re-<br /> vivals?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      No; he allowed the world to go on<br /> pretty much in its own way. He did
+      not even keep<br /> his own boys at home. They came down and made<br />
+      <br /> 373<br /> <br /> love to the daughters of men, and finally the world<br />
+      got exceedingly bad.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did God do then?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He made up his mind that he would drown<br /> them.
+      You see they were all totally depraved,&mdash;in<br /> every joint and
+      sinew of their bodies, in every drop<br /> of their blood, and in every
+      thought of their brains.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he drown them
+      all?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No, he saved eight, to start with again.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Were these eight persons totally de-<br /> praved?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why did he not kill
+      them, and start<br /> over again with a perfect pair? Would it not have<br />
+      been better to have had his flood at first, before he<br /> made anybody,
+      and drowned the snake?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. "God's way are not our
+      ways;" and<br /> besides, you must remember that "a thousand years<br />
+      "are as one day" with God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How did God destroy
+      the people?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. By water; it rained forty days and
+      forty<br /> nights, and "the fountains of the great deep were<br /> "broken
+      up."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How deep was the water?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      About five miles.<br /> <br /> 374<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How much did
+      it rain each day?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. About eight hundred feet;
+      though the<br /> better opinion now is, that it was a local flood. In-<br />
+      fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that<br /> degree that
+      most orthodox people admit that the<br /> flood was rather local.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. If it was a local flood, why did they put<br />
+      birds of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could<br /> have avoided a
+      local flood?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. If you take this away from us, what
+      do<br /> you propose to give us in its place? Some of the<br /> best people
+      of the world have believed this story.<br /> Kind husbands, loving mothers,
+      and earnest patriots<br /> have believed it, and that is sufficient.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. At the time God made these people,<br /> did he know
+      that he would have to drown them all?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course
+      he did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know when he made them that<br />
+      they would all be failures?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why, then, did he make them?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      He made them for his own glory, and<br /> no man should disgrace his
+      parents by denying it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Were the people after
+      the flood just as<br /> bad as they were before?<br /> <br /> 375<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. About the same.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did they try to
+      circumvent God?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They got together for the purpose of build-<br />
+      ing a tower, the top of which should reach to heaven,<br /> so that they
+      could laugh at any future floods, and go<br /> to heaven at any time they
+      desired.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did God hear about this?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. He did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did he say?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and<br /> see what
+      the people are doing; I am satisfied they<br /> will succeed.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How were the people prevented from<br /> succeeding?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      God confounded their language, so that<br /> the mason on top could not cry
+      "mort'!" to the<br /> hod-carrier below; he could not think of the word<br />
+      to use, to save his life, and the building stopped.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      If it had not been for the confusion of<br /> tongues at Babel, do you
+      really think that all the<br /> people in the world would have spoken just
+      the same<br /> language, and would have pronounced every word<br />
+      precisely the same?<br /> <br /> 376<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. If it had not been, then, for the con-<br /> fusion
+      of languages, spelling books, grammars and<br /> dictionaries would have
+      been useless?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I suppose so.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do any two people in the whole world<br /> speak the same language, now?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course they don't, and this is one of<br /> the
+      great evidences that God introduced confusion<br /> into the languages.
+      Every error in grammar, every<br /> mistake in spelling, every blunder in
+      pronunciation,<br /> proves the truth of the Babel story.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      This being so, this miracle is the best<br /> attested of all?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. I suppose it is.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you not
+      think that a confusion of<br /> tongues would bring men together instead of
+      separa-<br /> ting them? Would not a man unable to converse<br /> with his
+      fellow feel weak instead of strong; and<br /> would not people whose
+      language had been con-<br /> founded cling together for mutual support?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. According to nature, yes; according to<br /> theology,
+      no; and these questions must be answered<br /> according to theology. And
+      right here, it may be<br /> well enough to state, that in theology the
+      unnatural<br /> <br /> 377<br /> <br /> is the probable, and the impossible is
+      what has always<br /> happened. If theology were simply natural, anybody<br />
+      could be a theologian.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did God ever make any
+      other special<br /> efforts to convert the people, or to reform the world?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom<br /> and
+      Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you suppose it was really brim-<br /> stone?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Undoubtedly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think this brimstone came
+      from<br /> the clouds?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Let me tell you that you
+      have no right<br /> to examine the Bible in the light of what people are<br />
+      pleased to call "science." The natural has nothing<br /> to do with the
+      supernatural. Naturally there would<br /> be no brimstone in the clouds,
+      but supernaturally<br /> there might be. God could make brimstone out of<br />
+      his "omnipotence." We do not know really what<br /> brimstone is, and
+      nobody knows exactly how brim-<br /> stone is made. As a matter of fact,
+      all the brimstone<br /> in the world might have fallen at that time.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that Lot's wife was<br /> changed into
+      salt?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course she was. A miracle was per-<br />
+      <br /> 378<br /> <br /> formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made<br />
+      by changing Lot's wife into that article, was standing.<br /> Christian
+      travelers have seen it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why do you think she
+      was changed<br /> into salt?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. For the purpose of
+      keeping the event<br /> fresh in the minds of men.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      God having failed to keep people in-<br /> nocent in a garden; having
+      failed to govern them<br /> outside of a garden; having failed to reform
+      them by<br /> water; having failed to produce any good result by a<br />
+      confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them<br /> with fire and
+      brimstone, what did he then do?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He concluded
+      that he had no time to<br /> waste on them all, but that he would have to
+      select<br /> one tribe, and turn his entire attention to just a few<br />
+      folks.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Whom did he select?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      A man by the name of Abram.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What kind of man
+      was Abram?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. If you wish to know, read the twelfth<br />
+      chapter of Genesis; and if you still have any doubts<br /> as to his
+      character, read the twentieth chapter of the<br /> same book, and you will
+      see that he was a man who<br /> made merchandise of his wife's body. He had
+      had<br /> <br /> 379<br /> <br /> such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried
+      the experi-<br /> ment again on Abimelech.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did
+      Abraham show any gratitude?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; he offered to
+      sacrifice his son, to<br /> show his confidence in Jehovah.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What became of Abraham and his<br /> people?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. God
+      took such care of them, that in<br /> about two hundred and fifteen years
+      they were all<br /> slaves in the land of Egypt.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How long did they remain in slavery?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Two hundred
+      and fifteen years.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Were they the same people
+      that God<br /> had promised to take care of?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They
+      were.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was God at that time, in favor of<br />
+      slavery?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Not at that time. He was angry at the<br />
+      Egyptians for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards<br /> authorized the
+      Jews to enslave other people.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What means did
+      he take to liberate<br /> the Jews?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He sent his
+      agents to Pharaoh, and de-<br /> manded their freedom; and upon Pharaoh s
+      refusing,<br /> he afflicted the people, who had nothing to do with<br />
+      <br /> 380<br /> <br /> it, with various plagues,&mdash;killed children, and
+      tor-<br /> mented and tortured beasts.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was such
+      conduct Godlike?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly. If you have anything
+      against<br /> your neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his<br />
+      horse, or torment his dog. Nothing can be nobler<br /> than this. You see
+      it is much better to injure his<br /> animals than to injure him. To punish
+      animals for<br /> the sins of their owners must be just, or God would<br />
+      not have done it. Pharaoh insisted on keeping the<br /> people in slavery,
+      and therefore God covered the<br /> bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He
+      also bruised<br /> them to death with hailstones. From this we infer,<br />
+      that "the loving kindness of God is over all his works."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you consider such treatment of ani-<br /> mals consistent with divine
+      mercy?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly. You know that under the<br />
+      Mosaic dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he<br /> could settle with God
+      by killing an ox, or a sheep,<br /> or some doves. If the man failed to
+      kill them, of<br /> course God would kill them. It was upon this prin-<br />
+      ciple that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians.<br /> They had
+      sinned, and he merely took his pay.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How was it
+      possible, under the old dis-<br /> pensation, to please a being of infinite
+      kindness?<br /> <br /> 381<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. All you had to do was
+      to take an innocent<br /> animal, bring it to the altar, cut its throat,
+      and sprinkle<br /> the altar with its blood. Certain parts of it were to be<br />
+      given to the butcher as his share, and the rest was to<br /> be burnt on
+      the altar. When God saw an animal thus<br /> butchered, and smelt the warm
+      blood mingled with<br /> the odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and
+      the<br /> smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face.<br /> Of
+      course, infidels laugh at these things; but what<br /> can you expect of
+      men who have not been "born<br /> "again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with
+      God."<br /> <i>Question</i>. What else did God do in order to in-<br /> duce
+      Pharaoh to liberate the Jews?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He had his agents
+      throw down a cane<br /> in the presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah<br />
+      changed this cane into a serpent.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did this
+      convince Pharaoh?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No; he sent for his own
+      magicians.<br /> <i>Question</i>. What did they do?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      They threw down some canes and they<br /> also were changed into serpents.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did Jehovah change the canes of the<br /> Egyptian
+      magicians into snakes?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I suppose he did, as he
+      is the only one<br /> capable of performing such a miracle.<br /> <br /> 382<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. If the rod of Aaron was changed into<br /> a serpent
+      in order to convince Pharaoh that God had<br /> sent Aaron and Moses, why
+      did God change the<br /> sticks of the Egyptian magicians into serpents&mdash;why<br />
+      did he discredit his own agents, and render worth-<br /> less their only
+      credentials?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, we cannot explain the conduct
+      of<br /> Jehovah; we are perfectly satisfied that it was for<br /> the best.
+      Even in this age of the world God allows<br /> infidels to overwhelm his
+      chosen people with argu-<br /> ments; he allows them to discover facts that
+      his<br /> ministers can not answer, and yet we are satisfied<br /> that in
+      the end God will give the victory to us. All<br /> these things are tests
+      of faith. It is upon this prin-<br /> ciple that God allows geology to
+      laugh at Genesis,<br /> that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict<br />
+      his holy word.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did God do with these
+      people<br /> after Pharaoh allowed them to go?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Finding that they were not fit to settle<br /> a new country, owing to the
+      fact that when hungry<br /> they longed for food, and sometimes when their
+      lips<br /> were cracked with thirst insisted on having water,<br /> God in
+      his infinite mercy had them marched round<br /> and round, back and forth,
+      through a barren wilder-<br /> <br /> 383<br /> <br /> ness, until all, with
+      the exception of two persons,<br /> died.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why
+      did he do this?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because he had promised these
+      people<br /> that he would take them "to a land flowing with<br /> "milk and
+      honey."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was God always patient and kind and<br />
+      merciful toward his children while they were in the<br /> wilderness?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, he always was merciful and kind<br /> and
+      patient. Infidels have taken the ground that he<br /> visited them with
+      plagues and disease and famine;<br /> that he had them bitten by serpents,
+      and now and<br /> then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands<br />
+      of them, and in other ways saw to it that they were<br /> kept as
+      comfortable and happy as was consistent with<br /> good government; but all
+      these things were for their<br /> good; and the fact is, infidels have no
+      real sense of<br /> justice.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How did God happen
+      to treat the Is-<br /> raelites in this way, when he had promised Abraham<br />
+      that he would take care of his progeny, and when he<br /> had promised the
+      same to the poor wretches while<br /> they were slaves in Egypt?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Because God is unchangeable in his na-<br /> <br /> 384<br />
+      <br /> ture, and wished to convince them that every being<br /> should be
+      perfectly faithful to his promise.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was God
+      driven to madness by the<br /> conduct of his chosen people?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Almost.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know exactly what they would<br />
+      do when he chose them?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Exactly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They were.
+      They worshiped other gods<br /> &mdash;gods made of wood and stone.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it not wonderful that they were not<br />
+      convinced of the power of God, by the many mira-<br /> cles wrought in
+      Egypt and in the wilderness?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, it is very
+      wonderful; but the Jews,<br /> who must have seen bread rained from heaven;
+      who<br /> saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill<br /> and
+      down; who noticed that their clothes did not<br /> wear out, and did not
+      even get shiny at the knees,<br /> while the elbows defied the ravages of
+      time, and<br /> their shoes remained perfect for forty years; it is<br />
+      wonderful that when they saw the ground open<br /> and swallow their
+      comrades; when they saw God<br /> talking face to face with Moses as a man
+      talks with<br /> his friend; after they saw the cloud by day and the<br />
+      <br /> 385<br /> <br /> pillar of fire by night,&mdash;it is absolutely
+      astonishing<br /> that they had more faith in a golden calf that they<br />
+      made themselves, than in Jehovah.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How is it
+      that the Jews had no confi-<br /> dence in these miracles?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Because they were there and saw them.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you
+      think that it is necessary for<br /> us to believe all the miracles of the
+      Old Testament<br /> in order to be saved?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The Old
+      Testament is the foundation of<br /> the New. If the Old Testament is not
+      inspired, then<br /> the New is of no value. If the Old Testament is<br />
+      inspired, all the miracles are true, and we cannot<br /> believe that God
+      would allow any errors, or false<br /> statements, to creep into an
+      inspired volume, and to<br /> be perpetuated through all these years.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Should we believe the miracles, whether<br /> they
+      are reasonable or not?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly; if they were
+      reasonable, they<br /> would not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness<br />
+      that appeals to our credulity and our faith. It is im-<br /> possible to
+      have theological faith in anything that<br /> can be demonstrated. It is
+      the office of faith to<br /> believe, not only without evidence, but in
+      spite of<br /> evidence. It is impossible for the carnal mind to<br /> <br />
+      386<br /> <br /> believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the<br /> length
+      of his hair. "God has made the wisdom of<br /> "this world foolishness."
+      Neither can the uncon-<br /> verted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel
+      kept by<br /> ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would<br /> in
+      and of itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot<br /> could create oil.
+      But to a Christian, in order that a<br /> widow might feed a preacher, the
+      truth of these<br /> stories is perfectly apparent.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How should we regard the wonderful<br /> stories of the Old Testament?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They should be looked upon as "types"<br /> and
+      "symbols." They all have a spiritual signifi-<br /> cance. The reason I
+      believe the story of Jonah is,<br /> that Jonah is a type of Christ.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you believe the story of Jonah to<br /> be a true
+      account of a literal fact?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly. You must
+      remember that<br /> Jonah was not swallowed by a whale. God "pre-<br />
+      "pared a great fish" for that occasion. Neither is it by<br /> any means
+      certain that Jonah was in the belly of<br /> this whale. "He probably
+      stayed in his mouth."<br /> Even if he was in his stomach, it was very easy<br />
+      for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice<br /> by rapidly
+      walking up and down..<br /> <br /> 387<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you
+      think that Jonah was really in<br /> the whale's stomach?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      My own opinion is that he stayed in his<br /> mouth. The only objection to
+      this theory is, that it<br /> is more reasonable than the other and
+      requires less<br /> faith. Nothing could be easier than for God to make<br />
+      a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one<br /> passenger in his
+      mouth. I throw out this suggestion<br /> simply that you may be able to
+      answer the objections<br /> of infidels who are always laughing at this
+      story.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you really believe that Elijah went<br />
+      to heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of<br /> fire?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Of course he did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What was this
+      miracle performed for?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. To convince the people of
+      the power of<br /> God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Who saw the miracle?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Nobody but Elisha.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was he
+      convinced before that time?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Oh yes; he was one
+      of God's prophets.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose that in these days
+      two men<br /> should leave a town together, and after a while one<br /> of
+      them should come back having on the clothes of<br /> the other, and should
+      account for the fact that he had<br /> <br /> 388<br /> <br /> his friend's
+      clothes by saying that while they were<br /> going along the road together
+      a chariot of fire came<br /> down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds, and
+      there-<br /> upon his friend got into the carriage, threw him his<br />
+      clothes, and departed,&mdash;would you believe it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Of course things like that don't happen<br /> in these days; God does not
+      have to rely on wonders<br /> now.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you mean
+      that he performs no<br /> miracles at the present day?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      We cannot say that he does not perform<br /> miracles now, but we are not
+      in position to call atten-<br /> tion to any particular one. Of course he
+      supervises<br /> the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in<br />
+      his judgment is necessary.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that
+      Samson's strength<br /> depended on the length of his hair?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      The Bible so states, and the Bible is true.<br /> A physiologist might say
+      that a man could not use<br /> the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes,
+      but these<br /> same physiologists could not tell you how you move<br /> a
+      finger, nor how you lift a feather; still, actuated by<br /> the pride of
+      intellect, they insist that the length of a<br /> man's hair could not
+      determine his strength. God<br /> says it did; the physiologist says that
+      it did not; we<br /> <br /> 389<br /> <br /> can not hesitate whom to believe.
+      For the purpose<br /> of avoiding eternal agony I am willing to believe<br />
+      anything; I am willing to say that strength depends<br /> upon the length
+      of hair, or faith upon the length of<br /> ears. I am perfectly willing to
+      believe that a man<br /> caught three hundred foxes, and put fire brands
+      be-<br /> tween their tails; that he slew thousands with a bone,<br /> and
+      that he made a bee hive out of a lion. I will<br /> believe, if necessary,
+      that when this man's hair was<br /> short he hardly had strength enough to
+      stand, and<br /> that when it was long, he could carry away the gates<br />
+      of a city, or overthrow a temple filled with people.<br /> If the infidel
+      is right, I will lose nothing by believing,<br /> but if he is wrong, I
+      shall gain an eternity of joy.<br /> If God did not intend that we should
+      believe these<br /> stories, he never would have told them, and why<br />
+      should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis-<br /> prove one of the
+      statements of the Lord?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose it should turn
+      out that some<br /> of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the<br />
+      original Hebrew, should we still believe them?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      The safe side is the best side. It is<br /> far better to err on the side
+      of belief, than on the<br /> side of infidelity. God does not threaten
+      anybody<br /> with eternal punishment for believing too much.<br /> <br />
+      390<br /> <br /> Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the<br /> side
+      of thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely<br /> safe. As they
+      diverge from that point,&mdash;as they rise<br /> in the intellectual
+      scale, as the brain develops, as the<br /> faculties enlarge, the danger
+      increases. I know that<br /> some biblical students now take the ground
+      that<br /> Samson caught no foxes,&mdash;that he only took sheaves<br /> of
+      wheat that had been already cut and bound, set<br /> them on fire, and
+      threw them into the grain still<br /> standing. If this is what he did, of
+      course there is<br /> nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the<br />
+      story is lost. So, others contend that Elijah was not<br /> fed by the
+      ravens, but by the Arabs. They tell us<br /> that the Hebrew word standing
+      for "Arab" also<br /> stands for "bird," and that the word really means<br />
+      "migratory&mdash;going from place to place&mdash;homeless."<br /> But I
+      prefer the old version. It certainly will do no<br /> harm to believe that
+      ravens brought bread and flesh<br /> to a prophet of God. Where they got
+      their bread<br /> and flesh is none of my business; how they knew<br />
+      where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how<br /> God talks to
+      ravens, or how he gave them directions,<br /> I have no right to inquire. I
+      leave these questions<br /> to the scientists, the blasphemers, and
+      thinkers.<br /> There are many people in the church anxious to<br /> <br />
+      391<br /> <br /> get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands,<br /> I
+      have no doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn<br /> that there is, in
+      fact, nothing miraculous in Scripture;<br /> but when you take away the
+      miraculous, you take<br /> away the supernatural; when you take away the<br />
+      supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when<br /> you take away the
+      ministry, hundreds of thousands<br /> of men will be left without
+      employment.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it not wonderful that the
+      Egyptians<br /> were not converted by the miracles wrought in their<br />
+      country?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, they all would have been, if God<br />
+      had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent<br /> it. Jehovah always
+      took great delight in furnishing<br /> the evidence, and then hardening the
+      man's heart so<br /> that he would not believe it. After all the miracles<br />
+      that had been performed in Egypt,&mdash;the most won-<br /> derful that
+      were ever done in any country, the<br /> Egyptians were as unbelieving as
+      at first; they pur-<br /> sued the Israelites, knowing that they were
+      protected<br /> by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them,<br />
+      came back and worshiped their own false gods just as<br /> firmly as
+      before. All of which shows the unreason-<br /> ableness of a Pagan, and the
+      natural depravity of<br /> human nature.<br /> <br /> 392<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How did it happen that the Canaanites<br /> were never convinced that the
+      Jews were assisted by<br /> Jehovah?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They must
+      have been an exceedingly<br /> brave people to contend so many years with
+      the<br /> chosen people of God. Notwithstanding all their<br /> cities were
+      burned time and time again; notwith-<br /> standing all the men, women and
+      children were put<br /> to the edge of the sword; notwithstanding the
+      taking<br /> of all their cattle and sheep, they went right on<br />
+      fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever.<br /> Each one lost his
+      life many times, and was just as<br /> ready for the next conflict. My own
+      opinion is, that<br /> God kept them alive by raising them from the dead<br />
+      after each battle, for the purpose of punishing the<br /> Jews. God used
+      his enemies as instruments for the<br /> civilization of the Jewish people.
+      He did not wish<br /> to convert them, because they would give him much<br />
+      more trouble as Jews than they did as Canaanites.<br /> He had all the Jews
+      he could conveniently take care<br /> of. He found it much easier to kill a
+      hundred<br /> Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How do you account for the fact that<br /> the heathen were not surprised
+      at the stopping of the<br /> sun and moon?<br /> <br /> 393<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      They were so ignorant that they had<br /> not the slightest conception of
+      the real cause of<br /> the phenomenon. Had they known the size of<br /> the
+      earth, and the relation it sustained to the other<br /> heavenly bodies;
+      had they known the magnitude of<br /> the sun, and the motion of the moon,
+      they would,<br /> in all probability, have been as greatly astonished as<br />
+      the Jews were; but being densely ignorant of as-<br /> tronomy, it must
+      have produced upon them not the<br /> slightest impression. But we must
+      remember that<br /> the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose<br />
+      of converting these people, but to give Joshua more<br /> time to kill
+      them. As soon as we see clearly the<br /> purpose of Jehovah, we instantly
+      perceive how ad-<br /> mirable were the means adopted.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you not consider the treatment<br /> of the Canaanites to have been
+      cruel and ferocious?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. To a totally depraved man,
+      it does look<br /> cruel; to a being without any good in him,&mdash;to one<br />
+      who has inherited the rascality of many generations,<br /> the murder of
+      innocent women and little children<br /> does seem horrible; to one who is
+      "contaminated in<br /> "all his parts," by original sin,&mdash;who was
+      "conceived<br /> "in sin, and brought forth in iniquity," the assassina-<br />
+      tion of men, and the violation of captive maidens,<br /> <br /> 394<br />
+      <br /> do not seem consistent with infinite goodness. But<br /> when one has
+      been "born again," when "the love<br /> "of God has been shed abroad in his
+      heart," when<br /> he loves all mankind, when he "overcomes evil with<br />
+      "good," when he "prays for those who despite-<br /> "fully use him and
+      persecute him,"&mdash;to such a man,<br /> the extermination of the
+      Canaanites, the violation<br /> of women, the slaughter of babes, and the
+      destruc-<br /> tion of countless thousands, is the highest evidence<br /> of
+      the goodness, the mercy, and the long-suffering<br /> of God. When a man
+      has been "born again," all<br /> the passages of the Old Testament that
+      appear so<br /> horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state,<br />
+      become the dearest, the most consoling, and the<br /> most beautiful of
+      truths. The real Christian reads<br /> the accounts of these ancient
+      battles with the greatest<br /> possible satisfaction. To one who really
+      loves his<br /> enemies, the groans of men, the shrieks of women,<br /> and
+      the cries of babes, make music sweeter than the<br /> zephyr's breath.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. In your judgment, why did God destroy<br /> the
+      Canaanites?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. To prevent their contaminating his<br />
+      chosen people. He knew that if the Jews were<br /> allowed to live with
+      such neighbors, they would<br /> <br /> 395<br /> <br /> finally become as bad
+      as the Canaanites themselves.<br /> He wished to civilize his chosen
+      people, and it was<br /> therefore necessary for him to destroy the
+      heathen.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did God succeed in civilizing the
+      Jews<br /> after he had "removed" the Canaanites?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Well, not entirely. He had to allow the<br /> heathen he had not destroyed
+      to overrun the whole<br /> land and make captives of the Jews. This was
+      done<br /> for the good of his chosen people.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did he then succeed in civilizing them?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Not quite.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he ever quite succeed in civilizing<br /> them?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, we must admit that the experi-<br /> ment never
+      was a conspicuous success. The Jews<br /> were chosen by the Almighty 430
+      years before he<br /> appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai. He was their<br />
+      direct Governor. He attended personally to their<br /> religion and
+      politics, and gave up a great part of his<br /> valuable time for about two
+      thousand years, to the<br /> management of their affairs; and yet, such was
+      the<br /> condition of the Jewish people, after they had had all<br /> these
+      advantages, that when there arose among them<br /> a perfectly kind, just,
+      generous and honest man, these<br /> people, with whom God had been
+      laboring for so<br /> <br /> 396<br /> <br /> many centuries, deliberately put
+      to death that good<br /> and loving man.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you
+      think that God really endeav-<br /> ored to civilize the Jews?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. This is an exceedingly hard question.<br /> If he had really
+      tried to do it, of course he could<br /> have done it. We must not think of
+      limiting the<br /> power of the infinite. But you must remember that<br />
+      if he had succeeded in civilizing the Jews, if he had<br /> educated them
+      up to the plane of intellectual liberty,<br /> and made them just and kind
+      and merciful, like him-<br /> self, they would not have crucified Christ,
+      and you<br /> can see at once the awful condition in which we<br /> would
+      all be to-day. No atonement could have<br /> been made; and if no atonement
+      had been made,<br /> then, according to the Christian system, the whole<br />
+      world would have been lost. We must admit that<br /> there was no time in
+      the history of the Jews from<br /> Sinai to Jerusalem, that they would not
+      have put a<br /> man like Christ to death.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. So
+      you think that, after all, it was not<br /> God's intention that the Jews
+      should become civilized?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. We do not know. We can
+      only say<br /> that "God's ways are not our ways." It may be<br /> that God
+      took them in his special charge, for the<br /> <br /> 397<br /> <br /> purpose
+      of keeping them bad enough to make the<br /> necessary sacrifice. That may
+      have been the divine<br /> plan. In any event, it is safer to believe the
+      explana-<br /> tion that is the most unreasonable.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you think that Christ knew the<br /> Jews would crucify him?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that
+      when he chose<br /> Judas he knew that he would betray him?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know when Judas went to the<br />
+      chief priest and made the bargain for the delivery<br /> of Christ?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why did he
+      allow himself to be be-<br /> trayed, if he knew the plot?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Infidelity is a very good doctrine to live<br /> by, but you should read
+      the last words of Paine and<br /> Voltaire.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If
+      Christ knew that Judas would betray<br /> him, why did he choose him?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Nothing can exceed the atrocities of the<br /> French
+      Revolution&mdash;when they carried a woman<br /> through the streets and
+      worshiped her as the goddess<br /> of Reason.<br /> <br /> 398<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Would not the mission of Christ have<br /> been a failure had no one
+      betrayed him?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Thomas Paine was a drunkard, and
+      re-<br /> canted on his death-bed, and died a blaspheming<br /> infidel
+      besides.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it not clear that an atonement was<br />
+      necessary; and is it not equally clear that the atone-<br /> ment could not
+      have been made unless somebody<br /> had betrayed Christ; and unless the
+      Jews had been<br /> wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Of course the atonement had to be<br /> made. It was a part
+      of the "divine plan" that Christ<br /> should be betrayed, and that the
+      Jews should be<br /> wicked enough to kill him. Otherwise, the world<br />
+      would have been lost.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose Judas had
+      understood the<br /> divine plan, what ought he to have done? Should<br />
+      he have betrayed Christ, or let somebody else do it;<br /> or should he
+      have allowed the world to perish, in-<br /> cluding his own soul?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. If you take the Bible away from the<br /> world, "how
+      would it be possible to have witnesses<br /> "sworn in courts;" how would
+      it be possible to ad-<br /> minister justice?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      If Christ had not been betrayed and<br /> <br /> 399<br /> <br /> crucified,
+      is it true that his own mother would be in<br /> perdition to-day?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Most assuredly. There was but one<br /> way by which
+      she could be saved, and that was by<br /> the death of her son&mdash;through
+      the blood of the<br /> atonement. She was totally depraved through the<br />
+      sin of Adam, and deserved eternal death. Even her<br /> love for the infant
+      Christ was, in the sight of God,&mdash;<br /> that is to say, of her babe,&mdash;wickedness.
+      It can not<br /> be repeated too often that there is only one way to<br />
+      be saved, and that is, to believe in the Lord Jesus<br /> Christ.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Could Christ have prevented the Jews<br /> from
+      crucifying him?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He could.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      If he could have saved his life and did<br /> not, was he not guilty of
+      suicide?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No one can understand these questions<br />
+      who has not read the prophecies of Daniel, and has<br /> not a clear
+      conception of what is meant by "the full-<br /> "ness of time."<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. What became of all the Canaanites, the<br /> Egyptians,
+      the Hindus, the Greeks and Romans and<br /> Chinese? What became of the
+      billions who died<br /> before the promise was made to Abraham; of the<br />
+      <br /> 400<br /> <br /> billions and billions who never heard of the Bible,<br />
+      who never heard the name, even, of Jesus Christ&mdash;<br /> never knew of
+      "the scheme of salvation"? What<br /> became of the millions and billions
+      who lived in this<br /> hemisphere, and of whose existence Jehovah himself<br />
+      seemed perfectly ignorant?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. They were undoubtedly
+      lost. God<br /> having made them, had a right to do with them as<br /> he
+      pleased. They are probably all in hell to-day, and<br /> the fact that they
+      are damned, only adds to the joy<br /> of the redeemed. It is by contrast
+      that we are able<br /> to perceive the infinite kindness with which God has<br />
+      treated us.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it not possible that something
+      can<br /> be done for a human soul in another world as well as<br /> in
+      this?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No; this is the only world in which<br />
+      God even attempts to reform anybody. In the<br /> other world, nothing is
+      done for the purpose of<br /> making anybody better. Here in this world,
+      where<br /> man lives but a few days, is the only opportunity<br /> for
+      moral improvement. A minister can do a thou-<br /> sand times more for a
+      soul than its creator; and this<br /> country is much better adapted to
+      moral growth than<br /> heaven itself. A person who lived on this earth a<br />
+      <br /> 401<br /> <br /> few years, and died without having been converted,<br />
+      has no hope in another world. The moment he arrives<br /> at the judgment
+      seat, nothing remains but to damn<br /> him. Neither God, nor the Holy
+      Ghost, nor Jesus<br /> Christ, can have the least possible influence with<br />
+      him there.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. When God created each human being,<br />
+      did he know exactly what would be his eternal fate?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Most assuredly he did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know that
+      hundreds and millions<br /> and billions would suffer eternal pain?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly. But he gave them freedom<br /> of choice
+      between good and evil.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know exactly how
+      they would<br /> use that freedom?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know that billions would use<br /> it wrong?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was it optional with
+      him whether he<br /> should make such people or not?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Had these people any option as to<br />
+      whether they would be made or not?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>, No.<br />
+      <br /> 402<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Would it not have been far better to<br />
+      leave them unconscious dust?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. These questions
+      show how foolish it is<br /> to judge God according to a human standard.
+      What<br /> to us seems just and merciful, God may regard in an<br /> exactly
+      opposite light; and we may hereafter be<br /> developed to such a degree
+      that we will regard the<br /> agonies of the damned as the highest possible
+      evi-<br /> dence of the goodness and mercy of God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How do you account for the fact that<br /> God did not make himself known
+      except to Abra-<br /> ham and his descendants? Why did he fail to<br />
+      reveal himself to the other nations&mdash;nations that,<br /> compared with
+      the Jews, were learned, cultivated<br /> and powerful? Would you regard a
+      revelation now<br /> made to the Esquimaux as intended for us; and<br />
+      would it be a revelation of which we would be<br /> obliged to take notice?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course, God could have revealed him-<br /> self,
+      not only to all the great nations, but to each<br /> individual. He could
+      have had the Ten Command-<br /> ments engraved on every heart and brain; or
+      he<br /> could have raised up prophets in every land; but<br /> he chose,
+      rather, to allow countless millions of his<br /> children to wander in the
+      darkness and blackness of<br /> <br /> 403<br /> <br /> Nature; chose, rather,
+      that they should redden their<br /> hands in each other's blood; chose,
+      rather, that they<br /> should live without light, and die without hope;<br />
+      chose, rather, that they should suffer, not only in this<br /> world, but
+      forever in the next. Of course we have<br /> no right to find fault with
+      the choice of God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Now you can tell a sinner
+      to "believe<br /> "on the Lord Jesus Christ;" what could a sinner have<br />
+      been told in Egypt, three thousand years ago; and<br /> in what language
+      would you have addressed a Hindu<br /> in the days of Buddha&mdash;the
+      "divine scheme" at that<br /> time being a secret in the divine breast?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is not for us to think upon these<br /> questions.
+      The moment we examine the Christian<br /> system, we begin to doubt. In a
+      little while, we shall<br /> be infidels, and shall lose the respect of
+      those who<br /> refuse to think. It is better to go with the majority.<br />
+      These doctrines are too sacred to be touched. You<br /> should be satisfied
+      with the religion of your father<br /> and your mother. "You want some book
+      on the<br /> "centre-table," in the parlor; it is extremely handy<br /> to
+      have a Family Record; and what book, other than<br /> the Bible, could a
+      mother give a son as he leaves the<br /> old homestead?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Is it not wonderful that all the writers<br /> <br /> 404<br /> <br /> of the
+      four gospels do not give an account of the<br /> ascension of Jesus Christ?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. This question has been answered long<br /> ago, time
+      and time again.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Perhaps it has, but would it
+      not be<br /> well enough to answer it once more? Some may<br /> not have
+      seen the answer?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Show me the hospitals that
+      infidels<br /> have built; show me the asylums that infidels<br /> have
+      founded.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. I know you have given the usual an-<br />
+      swer; but after all, is it not singular that a miracle<br /> so wonderful
+      as the bodily ascension of a man, should<br /> not have been mentioned by
+      all the writers of that<br /> man's life? Is it not wonderful that some of
+      them<br /> said that he did ascend, and others that he agreed to<br /> stay
+      with his disciples always?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. People unacquainted
+      with the Hebrew,<br /> can have no conception of these things. A story<br />
+      in plain English, does not sound as it does in Hebrew.<br /> Miracles seem
+      altogether more credible, when told in<br /> a dead language.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What, in your judgment, became of<br /> the dead who were raised by Christ?
+      Is it not<br /> singular that they were never mentioned afterward?<br />
+      <br /> 405<br /> <br /> Would not a man who had been raised from the<br />
+      dead naturally be an object of considerable interest,<br /> especially to
+      his friends and acquaintances? And<br /> is it not also wonderful that
+      Christ, after having<br /> wrought so many miracles, cured so many lame and<br />
+      halt and blind, fed so many thousands miraculously,<br /> and after having
+      entered Jerusalem in triumph as a<br /> conqueror and king, had to be
+      pointed out by one<br /> of his own disciples who was bribed for the
+      purpose?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course, all these things are exceed-<br />
+      ingly wonderful, and if found in any other book,<br /> would be absolutely
+      incredible; but we have no<br /> right to apply the same kind of reasoning
+      to the<br /> Bible that we apply to the Koran or to the sacred<br /> books
+      of the Hindus. For the ordinary affairs of<br /> this world, God has given
+      us reason; but in the<br /> examination of religious questions, we should
+      de-<br /> pend upon credulity and faith.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If
+      Christ came to offer himself a sacri-<br /> fice, for the purpose of making
+      atonement for the<br /> sins of such as might believe on him, why did he<br />
+      not make this fact known to all of his disciples?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      He did. This was, and is, the gospel.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How is
+      it that Matthew says nothing<br /> about "salvation by faith," but simply
+      says that God<br /> <br /> 406<br /> <br /> will be merciful to the merciful,
+      that he will forgive<br /> the forgiving, and says not one word about the<br />
+      necessity of believing anything?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. But you will
+      remember that Mark says,<br /> in the last chapter of his gospel, that
+      "whoso be-<br /> "lieveth not shall be damned."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you admit that Matthew says<br /> nothing on the subject?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Yes, I suppose I must.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is not that passage in
+      Mark generally<br /> admitted to be an interpolation?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Some biblical scholars say that it is.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is that
+      portion of the last chapter of<br /> Mark found in the Syriac version of
+      the Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is not.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      If it was necessary to believe on Jesus<br /> Christ, in order to be saved,
+      how is it that Matthew<br /> failed to say so?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      "There are more copies of the Bible<br /> "printed to-day, than of any
+      other book in the world,<br /> "and it is printed in more languages than
+      any other<br /> "book."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you consider it
+      necessary to be<br /> "regenerated"&mdash;to be "born again"&mdash;in order
+      to be<br /> saved?<br /> <br /> 407<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did Matthew say anything on the sub-<br /> ject of
+      "regeneration"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did Mark?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did
+      Luke?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is Saint
+      John the only one who speaks<br /> of the necessity of being "born again"?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He is.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that
+      Matthew, Mark and<br /> Luke knew anything about the necessity of "regen-<br />
+      "eration"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course they did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Why did they fail to speak of it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. There is no
+      civilization without the Bible.<br /> The moment you throw away the sacred
+      Scriptures,<br /> you are all at sea&mdash;you are without an anchor and<br />
+      without a compass.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. You will remember that,
+      according to<br /> Mark, Christ said to his disciples: "Go ye into all<br />
+      "the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."<br /> Did he refer to
+      the gospel set forth by Mark?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course he did.<br />
+      <br /> 408<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Well, in the gospel set forth by
+      Mark,<br /> there is not a word about "regeneration," and no<br /> word
+      about the necessity of believing anything&mdash;ex-<br /> cept in an
+      interpolated passage. Would it not seem<br /> from this, that
+      "regeneration" and a "belief in the<br /> "Lord Jesus Christ," are no part
+      of the gospel?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Nothing can exceed in horror the
+      last<br /> moments of the infidel; nothing can be more ter-<br /> rible than
+      the death of the doubter. When the<br /> glories of this world fade from
+      the vision; when am-<br /> bition becomes an empty name; when wealth turns<br />
+      to dust in the palsied hand of death, of what use is<br /> philosophy then?
+      Who cares then for the pride of<br /> intellect? In that dread moment, man
+      needs some-<br /> thing to rely on, whether it is true or not.<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Would it not have been more con-<br /> vincing if Christ,
+      after his resurrection, had shown<br /> himself to his enemies as well as
+      to his friends?<br /> Would it not have greatly strengthened the evidence<br />
+      in the case, if he had visited Pilate; had presented<br /> himself before
+      Caiaphas, the high priest; if he had<br /> again entered the temple, and
+      again walked the<br /> streets of Jerusalem?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. If
+      the evidence had been complete and<br /> overwhelming, there would have
+      been no praise-<br /> <br /> 409<br /> <br /> worthiness in belief; even
+      publicans and sinners<br /> would have believed, if the evidence had been
+      suffi-<br /> cient. The amount of evidence required is the test<br /> of the
+      true Christian spirit.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Would it not also have
+      been better<br /> had the ascension taken place in the presence of<br />
+      unbelieving thousands; it seems such a pity to have<br /> wasted such a
+      demonstration upon those already<br /> convinced?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      These questions are the natural fruit of<br /> the carnal mind, and can be
+      accounted for only by<br /> the doctrine of total depravity. Nothing has
+      given<br /> the church more trouble than just such questions.<br /> Unholy
+      curiosity, a disposition to pry into the divine<br /> mysteries, a desire
+      to know, to investigate, to explain<br /> &mdash;in short, to understand,
+      are all evidences of a re-<br /> probate mind.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How can we account for the fact that<br /> Matthew alone speaks of the wise
+      men of the East<br /> coming with gifts to the infant Christ; that he alone<br />
+      speaks of the little babes being killed by Herod? Is<br /> it possible that
+      the other writers never heard of these<br /> things?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Nobody can get any good out of the<br /> Bible by reading it in a critical
+      spirit. The contra-<br /> <br /> 410<br /> <br /> dictions and discrepancies
+      are only apparent, and melt<br /> away before the light of faith. That
+      which in other<br /> books would be absolute and palpable contradiction,<br />
+      is, in the Bible, when spiritually discerned, a perfect<br /> and beautiful
+      harmony. My own opinion is, that<br /> seeming contradictions are in the
+      Bible for the pur-<br /> pose of testing and strengthening the faith of
+      Chris-<br /> tians, and for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels,<br />
+      "that they might believe a lie and be damned."<br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it
+      possible that a good God would<br /> take pains to deceive his children?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The Bible is filled with instances of that<br /> kind,
+      and all orthodox ministers now know that<br /> fossil animals&mdash;that
+      is, representations of animals in<br /> stone, were placed in the rocks on
+      purpose to mis-<br /> lead men like Darwin and Humboldt, Huxley and<br />
+      Tyndall. It is also now known that God, for the<br /> purpose of misleading
+      the so-called men of science,<br /> had hairy elephants preserved in ice,
+      made stomachs<br /> for them, and allowed twigs of trees to be found in<br />
+      these stomachs, when, as a matter of fact, no such<br /> elephants ever
+      lived or ever died. These men who<br /> are endeavoring to overturn the
+      Scriptures with the<br /> lever of science will find that they have been
+      de-<br /> ceived. Through all eternity they will regret their<br /> <br />
+      411<br /> <br /> philosophy. They will wish, in the next world, that<br />
+      they had thrown away geology and physiology and<br /> all other "ologies"
+      except theology. The time is<br /> coming when Jehovah will "mock at their
+      fears and<br /> "laugh at their calamity."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If
+      Joseph was not the father of Christ,<br /> why was his genealogy given to
+      show that Christ<br /> was of the blood of David; why would not the<br />
+      genealogy of any other Jew have done as well?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      That objection was raised and answered<br /> hundreds of years ago.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. If they wanted to show that Christ was of<br /> the
+      blood of David, why did they not give the gene-<br /> alogy of his mother
+      if Joseph was not his father?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. That objection was
+      answered hundreds<br /> of years ago.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How was
+      it answered?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. When Voltaire was dying, he sent
+      for a<br /> priest.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How does it happen that the
+      two gene-<br /> alogies given do not agree?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Perhaps they were written by different<br /> persons.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Were both these persons inspired by<br /> the same God?<br /> <br /> 412<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why were the
+      miracles recorded in the<br /> New Testament performed?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      The miracles were the evidence relied<br /> on to prove the supernatural
+      origin and the divine<br /> mission of Jesus Christ.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Aside from the miracles, is there any<br /> evidence to show the
+      supernatural origin or character<br /> of Jesus Christ?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Some have considered that his moral<br /> precepts are sufficient, of
+      themselves, to show that<br /> he was divine.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Had all of his moral precepts been<br /> taught before he lived?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. The same things had been said, but they<br /> did not have
+      the same meaning.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Does the fact that Buddha
+      taught the<br /> same tend to show that he was of divine origin?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Certainly not. The rules of evidence<br /> applicable to the
+      Bible are not applicable to other<br /> books. We examine other books in
+      the light of<br /> reason; the Bible is the only exception. So, we<br />
+      should not judge of Christ as we do of any other<br /> man.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you think that Christ wrought<br /> <br /> 413<br /> <br /> many of his
+      miracles because he was good, charitable,<br /> and filled with pity?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Has he as much
+      power now as he had<br /> when on earth?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Most
+      assuredly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is he as charitable and pitiful
+      now, as<br /> he was then?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Why does he not now cure the lame<br /> and the halt and the blind?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is well known that, when Julian the<br /> Apostate
+      was dying, catching some of his own blood<br /> in his hand and throwing it
+      into the air he exclaimed:<br /> "Galileean, thou hast conquered!"<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you consider it our duty to love our<br />
+      neighbor?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Is virtue the same in all worlds?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Most
+      assuredly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Are we under obligation to render
+      good<br /> for evil, and to "pray for those who despitefully use us"?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Will Christians in
+      heaven love their<br /> neighbors?<br /> <br /> 414<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Y es; if their neighbors are not in hell.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do
+      good Christians pity sinners in this<br /> world?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Yes.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because
+      they regard them as being in<br /> great danger of the eternal wrath of
+      God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. After these sinners have died, and<br />
+      been sent to hell, will the Christians in heaven then<br /> pity them?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No. Angels have no pity.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      If we are under obligation to love our<br /> enemies, is not God under
+      obligation to love his?<br /> If we forgive our enemies, ought not God to
+      forgive<br /> his? If we forgive those who injure us, ought not<br /> God to
+      forgive those who have not injured him?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. God made
+      us, and he has therefore the<br /> right to do with us as he pleases.
+      Justice demands<br /> that he should damn all of us, and the few that he<br />
+      will save will be saved through mercy and without<br /> the slightest
+      respect to anything they may have done<br /> themselves. Such is the
+      justice of God, that those<br /> in hell will have no right to complain,
+      and those in<br /> heaven will have no right to be there. Hell is justice,<br />
+      and salvation is charity.<br /> <br /> 415<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do
+      you consider it possible for a law to<br /> be jusdy satisfied by the
+      punishment of an innocent<br /> person?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Such is
+      the scheme of the atonement.<br /> As man is held responsible for the sin
+      of Adam, so<br /> he will be credited with the virtues of Christ; and<br />
+      you can readily see that one is exactly as reasonable<br /> as the other.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose a man honestly reads the New<br />
+      Testament, and honestly concludes that it is not an<br /> inspired book;
+      suppose he honestly makes up his<br /> mind that the miracles are not true;
+      that the devil<br /> never really carried Christ to the pinnacle of the<br />
+      temple; that devils were really never cast out of a<br /> man and allowed
+      to take refuge in swine;&mdash;I say,<br /> suppose that he is honestly
+      convinced that these<br /> things are not true, what ought he to say?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He ought to say nothing.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Suppose that the same man should read<br /> the Koran, and come to the
+      conclusion that it is not<br /> an inspired book; what ought he to say?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He ought to say that it is not inspired;<br /> his
+      fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and<br /> it is his duty to
+      do what he can do to destroy a per-<br /> nicious superstition.<br /> <br />
+      416<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible,<br />
+      having become convinced that it is not inspired&mdash;<br /> honestly
+      convinced&mdash;says nothing&mdash;keeps his con-<br /> clusion absolutely
+      to himself, and suppose he dies in<br /> that belief, can he be saved?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly not.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Has the
+      honesty of his belief anything<br /> to do with his future condition?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Nothing whatever.,<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Suppose that he tried to believe, that<br /> he hated to disagree with his
+      friends, and with his<br /> parents, but that in spite of himself he was
+      forced to<br /> the conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word<br />
+      of God, would he then deserve eternal punishment?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Certainly he would.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Can a man control his
+      belief?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He cannot&mdash;except as to the Bible.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you consider it just in God to<br /> create a man
+      who cannot believe the Bible, and then<br /> damn him because he does not?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Such is my belief.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it
+      your candid opinion that a man<br /> who does not believe the Bible should
+      keep his<br /> belief a secret from his fellow-men?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      It is.<br /> <br /> 417<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do I know that you
+      believe the<br /> Bible? You have told me that if you did not be-<br />
+      lieve it, you would not tell me?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. There is no way
+      for you to ascertain,<br /> except by taking my word for it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What will be the fate of a man who<br /> does not believe it, and yet
+      pretends to believe it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He will be damned.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then hypocrisy will not save him?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      No.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. And if he does not believe it, and ad-<br />
+      mits that he does not believe it, then his honesty will<br /> not save him?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no<br /> better than
+      hypocrisy on the right side.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do we know who
+      wrote the gospels?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; we do.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Are we absolutely sure who wrote<br /> them?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of
+      course; we have the evidence as it<br /> has come to us through the
+      Catholic Church.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Can we rely upon the Catholic
+      Church<br /> now?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No; assuredly no! But we have
+      the<br /> testimony of Polycarp and Iren&aelig;us and Clement,<br /> <br />
+      418<br /> <br /> and others of the early fathers, together with that of<br />
+      the Christian historian, Eusebius.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do we
+      really know about Polycarp?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. We know that he
+      suffered martyrdom un-<br /> der Marcus Aurelius, and that for quite a time
+      the fire<br /> refused to burn his body, the flames arching over him,<br />
+      leaving him in a kind of fiery tent; and we also know<br /> that from his
+      body came a fragrance like frankincense,<br /> and that the Pagans were so
+      exasperated at seeing<br /> the miracle, that one of them thrust a sword
+      through<br /> the body of Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and<br />
+      extinguished the flames and that out of the wound<br /> flew the soul of
+      the martyr in the form of a dove.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is that all
+      we know about Polycarp?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, with the exception
+      of a few more<br /> like incidents.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do we know
+      that Polycarp ever met<br /> St. John?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes;
+      Eusebius says so.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Are we absolutely certain
+      that he ever<br /> lived?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, or Eusebius could
+      not have written<br /> about him.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do we know
+      anything of the character<br /> of Eusebius?<br /> <br /> 419<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Yes; we know that he was untruthful<br /> only when he wished to do good.
+      But God can use<br /> even the dishonest. Other books have to be sub-<br />
+      stantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of<br /> God, that he can
+      establish the inspiration of the Bible<br /> by the most untruthful
+      witnesses. If God's witnesses<br /> were honest, anybody could believe, and
+      what be-<br /> comes of faith, one of the greatest virtues?<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Is the New Testament now the same as<br /> it was in the days of the early
+      fathers?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly not. Many books now thrown<br />
+      out, and not esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed<br /> divine by
+      Polycarp and Iren&aelig;us and Clement and<br /> many of the early
+      churches. These books are now<br /> called "apocryphal."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Have you not the same witnesses in<br /> favor of their authenticity, that
+      you have in favor of<br /> the gospels?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Precisely
+      the same. Except that they<br /> were thrown out.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Why were they thrown out?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because the Catholic
+      Church did not es-<br /> teem them inspired.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did the Catholics decide for us which<br /> are the true gospels and which
+      are the true epistles?<br /> <br /> 420<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes. The
+      Catholic Church was then the<br /> only church, and consequently must have
+      been the<br /> true church.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How did the
+      Catholic Church select the<br /> true books?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Councils were called, and votes were<br /> taken, very much as we now pass
+      resolutions in<br /> political meetings.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was
+      the Catholic Church infallible then?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It was
+      then, but it is not now.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If the Catholic
+      Church at that time<br /> had thrown out the book of Revelation, would it<br />
+      now be our duty to believe that book to have been<br /> inspired?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No, I suppose not.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it
+      not true that some of these books<br /> were adopted by exceedingly small
+      majorities?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to<br /> the Romans, and the book of
+      Revelation had been<br /> thrown out, could a man now be saved who honestly<br />
+      believes the rest of the books?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. This is
+      doubtful.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Were the men who picked out the in-<br />
+      spired books inspired?<br /> <br /> 421<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. We cannot
+      tell, but the probability is<br /> that they were.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do we know that they picked out the<br /> right ones?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Well, not exactly, but we believe that<br /> they did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Are we certain that some of the books<br /> that were thrown out were not
+      inspired?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, the only way to tell is to read<br />
+      them carefully.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If upon reading these
+      apocryphal books<br /> a man concludes that they are not inspired, will he
+      be<br /> damned for that reason?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No. Certainly
+      not.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If he concludes that some of them are<br />
+      inspired, and believes them, will he then be damned<br /> for that belief?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for<br /> believing too
+      much.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Does the fact that the books now com-<br />
+      prising the New Testament were picked out by the<br /> Catholic Church
+      prevent their being examined now<br /> by an honest man, as they were
+      examined at the time<br /> they were picked out?<br /> <br /> 422<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. No; not if the man comes to the con-<br /> clusion that they
+      are inspired.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Does the fact that the Catholic
+      Church<br /> picked them out and declared them to be inspired,<br /> render
+      it a crime to examine them precisely as you<br /> would examine the books
+      that the Catholic Church<br /> threw out and declared were not inspired?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I think it does.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. At the
+      time the council was held in which<br /> it was determined which of the
+      books of the New<br /> Testament are inspired, a respectable minority voted<br />
+      against some that were finally decided to be inspired.<br /> If they were
+      honest in the vote they gave, and died<br /> without changing their
+      opinions, are they now in hell?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, they ought
+      to be.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If those who voted to leave the book<br />
+      of Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of<br /> Saint John out of
+      the canon, believed honestly that<br /> these were not inspired books, how
+      should they have<br /> voted?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, I suppose a
+      man ought to vote as<br /> he honestly believes&mdash;except in matters of
+      religion.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If the Catholic Church was not
+      infal-<br /> lible, is the question still open as to what books are,<br />
+      and what are not, inspired?<br /> <br /> 423<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I
+      suppose the question is still open&mdash;<br /> but it would be dangerous
+      to decide it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If, then, I examine all the
+      books again,<br /> and come to the conclusion that some that were<br />
+      thrown out were inspired, and some that were ac-<br /> cepted were not
+      inspired, ought I to say so?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Not if it is
+      contrary to the faith of your<br /> father, or calculated to interfere with
+      your own po-<br /> litical prospects.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it as
+      great a sin to admit into the<br /> Bible books that are uninspired as to
+      reject those<br /> that are inspired?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, it is
+      a crime to reject an inspired<br /> book, no matter how unsatisfactory the
+      evidence is<br /> for its inspiration, but it is not a crime to receive an<br />
+      uninspired book. God damns nobody for believing<br /> too much. An excess
+      of credulity is simply to err in<br /> the direction of salvation.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira-<br /> tion
+      of the New Testament&mdash;believes it to be entirely<br /> the work of
+      uninspired men; and suppose he also be-<br /> lieves&mdash;but not from any
+      evidence obtained in the New<br /> Testament&mdash;that Jesus Christ was
+      the son of God, and<br /> that he made atonement for his soul, can he then
+      be<br /> saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?<br /> <br />
+      424<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. This has not yet been decided by<br /> our
+      church, and I do not wish to venture an<br /> opinion.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Suppose a man denies the inspiration<br /> of the Scriptures; suppose that
+      he also denies the<br /> divinity of Jesus Christ; and suppose, further,
+      that<br /> he acts precisely as Christ is said to have acted;<br /> suppose
+      he loves his enemies, prays for those who<br /> despitefully use him, and
+      does all the good he pos-<br /> sibly can, is it your opinion that such a
+      man will be<br /> saved?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No, sir. There is "none
+      other name<br /> "given under heaven and among men," whereby a<br /> sinner
+      can be saved but the name of Christ.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then it
+      is your opinion that God<br /> would save a murderer who believed in
+      Christ, and<br /> would damn another man, exactly like Christ, who<br />
+      failed to believe in him?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; because we have
+      the blessed<br /> promise that, out of Christ, "our God is a consuming<br />
+      "fire."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Suppose a man read the Bible care-<br />
+      fully and honestly, and was not quite convinced that<br /> it was true, and
+      that while examining the subject, he<br /> died; what then?<br /> <br /> 425<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I do not believe that God would allow<br /> him to
+      examine the matter in another world, or to<br /> make up his mind in
+      heaven. Of course, he would<br /> eternally perish.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Could Christ now furnish evidence<br /> enough to convince every human
+      being of the truth<br /> of the Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course
+      he could, because he is in-<br /> finite.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Are
+      any miracles performed now?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Oh, no!<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Have we any testimony, except human<br /> testimony, to
+      substantiate any miracle?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Only human testimony.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do all men give the same force to the<br /> same
+      evidence?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. By no means.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Have all honest men who have exam-<br /> ined the Bible believed it to be
+      inspired?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course they have. Infidels are not<br />
+      honest.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Could any additional evidence have<br />
+      been furnished?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. With perfect ease.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Would God allow a soul to suffer<br /> <br /> 426<br /> <br /> eternal agony
+      rather than furnish evidence of the<br /> truth of his Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      God has furnished plenty of evidence,<br /> and altogether more than was
+      really necessary. We<br /> should read the Bible in a believing spirit.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Are all parts of the inspired books<br /> equally
+      true?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Necessarily.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      According to Saint Matthew, God<br /> promises to forgive all who will
+      forgive others; not<br /> one word is said about believing in Christ, or
+      believ-<br /> ing in the miracles, or in any Bible; did Matthew tell<br />
+      the truth?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The Bible must be taken as a whole;<br />
+      and if other conditions are added somewhere else,<br /> then you must
+      comply with those other conditions.<br /> Matthew may not have stated all
+      the conditions.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. I find in another part of the
+      New<br /> Testament, that a young man came to Christ and<br /> asked him
+      what was necessary for him to do in order<br /> that he might inherit
+      eternal life. Christ did not tell<br /> him that he must believe the Bible,
+      or that he must<br /> believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbath-<br />
+      day; was Christ honest with that young man?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Well, I suppose he was.<br /> <br /> 427<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. You
+      will also recollect that Zaccheus<br /> said to Christ, that where he had
+      wronged any man<br /> he had made restitution, and further, that half his<br />
+      goods he had given to the poor; and you will re-<br /> member that Christ
+      said to Zaccheus: "This day<br /> "hath salvation come to thy house." Why
+      did not<br /> Christ tell Zaccheus that he "must be born again;"<br /> that
+      he must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of
+      course there are mysteries in our<br /> holy religion that only those who
+      have been "born<br /> "again" can understand. You must remember that<br />
+      "the carnal mind is enmity with God."<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it
+      not strange that Christ, in his Ser-<br /> mon on the Mount, did not speak
+      of "regeneration,"<br /> or of the "scheme of salvation"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Well, it may be.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Can a man be saved now by
+      living<br /> exactly in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. He can not.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Would then a man,
+      by following the<br /> course of conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon<br />
+      on the Mount, lose his soul?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He most certainly
+      would, because there<br /> is not one word in the Sermon on the Mount about<br />
+      believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; not one word<br /> <br /> 428<br /> <br />
+      about believing in the Bible; not one word about the<br /> "atonement;" not
+      one word about "regeneration."<br /> So that, if the Presbyterian Church is
+      right, it is abso-<br /> lutely certain that a man might follow the
+      teachings<br /> of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in accordance<br />
+      with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the<br /> eternal
+      condemnation of God. But we must remem-<br /> ber that the Sermon on the
+      Mount was preached be-<br /> fore Christianity existed. Christ was talking
+      to Jews.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did Christ write anything himself, in<br />
+      the New Testament?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Not a word.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did he tell any of his disciples to write<br /> any of his words?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. There is no account of it, if he did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do we know whether any of the dis-<br /> ciples wrote anything?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Of course they did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you
+      know?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because the gospels bear their names.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Are you satisfied that Christ was abso-<br /> lutely
+      God?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course he was. We believe that<br />
+      Christ and God and the Holy Ghost are all the same,<br /> that the three
+      form one, and that each one is three.<br /> <br /> 429<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Was Christ the God of the universe at<br /> the time of his birth?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. He certainly was.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Was he
+      the infinite God, creator<br /> and controller of the entire universe,
+      before he was<br /> born?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course he was. This
+      is the mystery<br /> of "God manifest in the flesh." The infidels have<br />
+      pretended that he was like any other child, and was<br /> in fact supported
+      by Nature instead of being the<br /> supporter of Nature. They have
+      insisted that like<br /> other children, he had to be cared for by his
+      mother.<br /> Of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother.<br /> It
+      was a part of the plan that in all respects he should<br /> appear to be
+      like other children.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did he know just as much
+      before he<br /> was born as after?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. If he was God
+      of course he did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you account for the
+      fact that<br /> Saint Luke tells us, in the last verse of the second<br />
+      chapter of his gospel, that "Jesus increased in wis-<br /> "dom and
+      stature"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. That I presume is a figure of speech;<br />
+      because, if he was God, he certainly could not have<br /> increased in
+      wisdom. The physical part of him could<br /> <br /> 430<br /> <br /> increase
+      in stature, but the intellectual part must have<br /> been infinite all the
+      time.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No; I believe what Luke said. If it<br /> appears
+      untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is<br /> figurative or
+      symbolical.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did I understand you to say that
+      Christ<br /> was actually God?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course he was.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then why did Luke say in the same<br /> verse of the
+      same chapter that "Jesus increased in<br /> "favor with God"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      I dare you to go into a room by your-<br /> self and read the fourteenth
+      chapter of Saint John!<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is it necessary to
+      understand the Bible<br /> in order to be saved?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Certainly not; it is only necessary that<br /> you believe it.<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Is it necessary to believe all the<br /> miracles?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It may not be necessary, but as it is im-<br />
+      possible to tell which ones can safely be left out, you<br /> had better
+      believe them all.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Then you regard belief as
+      the safe<br /> way?<br /> <br /> 431<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course it
+      is better to be fooled in this<br /> world than to be damned in the next.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think that there are any cruel-<br /> ties on
+      God's part recorded in the Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. At first
+      flush, many things done by God<br /> himself, as well as by his prophets,
+      appear to be<br /> cruel; but if we examine them closely, we will find<br />
+      them to be exactly the opposite.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you
+      explain the story of Elisha<br /> and the children,&mdash;where the two
+      she-bears destroyed<br /> forty-two children on account of their impudence?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. This miracle, in my judgment, estab-<br /> lishes two
+      things: 1. That children should be polite<br /> to ministers, and 2. That
+      God is kind to animals&mdash;<br /> "giving them their meat in due season."
+      These<br /> bears have been great educators&mdash;they are the<br />
+      foundation of the respect entertained by the young<br /> for theologians.
+      No child ever sees a minister now<br /> without thinking of a bear.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you think of the story of<br /> Daniel&mdash;you
+      no doubt remember it? Some men<br /> told the king that Daniel was praying
+      contrary to<br /> law, and thereupon Daniel was cast into a den of<br />
+      lions; but the lions could not touch him, their<br /> mouths having been
+      shut by angels. The next<br /> <br /> 432<br /> <br /> morning, the king,
+      finding that Daniel was still<br /> intact, had him taken out; and then,
+      for the purpose<br /> of gratifying Daniels God, the king had all the men<br />
+      who had made the complaint against Daniel, and<br /> their wives and their
+      little children, brought and cast<br /> into the lions' den. According to
+      the account, the<br /> lions were so hungry that they caught these wives<br />
+      and children as they dropped, and broke all their<br /> bones in pieces
+      before they had even touched the<br /> ground. Is it not wonderful that God
+      failed to pro-<br /> tect these innocent wives and children?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      These wives and children were heathen;<br /> they were totally depraved.
+      And besides, they were<br /> used as witnesses. The fact that they were
+      devoured<br /> with such quickness shows that the lions were<br /> hungry.
+      Had it not been for this, infidels would<br /> have accounted for the
+      safety of Daniel by saying<br /> that the lions had been fed.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach<br /> and Abednego were cast "into a
+      burning fiery furnace<br /> "heated one seven times hotter than it was wont
+      to<br /> "be heated," and that they had on "their coats, their<br /> "hosen
+      and their hats," and that when they came<br /> out "not a hair of their
+      heads was singed, nor was<br /> "the smell of fire upon their garments"?<br />
+      <br /> 433<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The evidence of this miracle is
+      exceed-<br /> ingly satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of<br />
+      Nebuchadnezzar.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you know he was
+      converted?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because immediately after the miracle<br />
+      the king issued a decree that "every people, nation<br /> "and language
+      that spoke anything amiss against<br /> "the God of Shadrach and Company,
+      should be cut<br /> "in pieces." This decree shows that he had become<br />
+      a true disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If
+      God in those days preserved from<br /> the fury of the fire men who were
+      true to him and<br /> would not deny his name, why is it that he has failed<br />
+      to protect thousands of martyrs since that time?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      This is one of the divine mysteries.<br /> God has in many instances
+      allowed his enemies to<br /> kill his friends. I suppose this was allowed
+      for the<br /> good of his enemies, that the heroism of the mar-<br /> tyrs
+      might convert them.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you believe all the
+      miracles?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I believe them all, because I believe
+      the<br /> Bible to be inspired.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What makes you
+      think it is inspired?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I have never seen anybody
+      who knew<br /> it was not; besides, my father and mother believed it.<br />
+      <br /> 434<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have you any other reasons for be-<br />
+      lieving it to be inspired?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; there are more
+      copies of the Bible<br /> printed than of any other book; and it is printed
+      in<br /> more languages. And besides, it would be impossible<br /> to get
+      along without it.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why could we not get along
+      without it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. We would have nothing to swear wit-<br />
+      nesses by; no book in which to keep the family<br /> record; nothing for
+      the centre-table, and nothing for<br /> a mother to give her son. No nation
+      can be civilized<br /> without the Bible.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Did
+      God always know that a Bible was<br /> necessary to civilize a country?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly he did.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why did
+      he not give a Bible to<br /> the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and the<br />
+      Romans?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. It is astonishing what perfect fools in-<br />
+      fidels are.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why do you call infidels "fools"?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the<br />
+      gospel according to Matthew the following: "Who-<br /> "soever shall say
+      'Thou fool!' shall be in danger of<br /> "hell fire."<br /> <br /> 435<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have I the right to read the Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Yes. You not only have the right, but<br /> it is your duty.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      In reading the Bible the words make<br /> certain impressions on my mind.
+      These impressions<br /> depend upon my brain,&mdash;upon my intelligence.
+      Is<br /> not this true?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course, when you read
+      the Bible, im-<br /> pressions are made upon your mind.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Can I control these impressions?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I do not think
+      you can, as long as you<br /> remain in a sinful state.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      How am I to get out of this sinful state?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. You
+      must believe on the Lord Jesus<br /> Christ, and you must read the Bible in
+      a prayerful<br /> spirit and with a believing heart.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Suppose that doubts force themselves<br /> upon my mind?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Then you will know that you are a sin-<br /> ner, and that you are
+      depraved.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If I have the right to read the
+      Bible,<br /> have I the right to try to understand it?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Most assuredly.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you admit that I have the
+      right to<br /> reason about it and to investigate it?<br /> <br /> 436<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; I admit that. Of course you can-<br /> not help
+      reasoning about what you read.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Does the right
+      to read a book include<br /> the right to give your opinion as to the truth
+      of what<br /> the book contains?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course,&mdash;if
+      the book is not inspired.<br /> Infidels hate the Bible because it is
+      inspired, and<br /> Christians know that it is inspired because infidels<br />
+      say that it is not.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have I the right to decide
+      for myself<br /> whether or not the book is inspired?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      You have no right to deny the truth of<br /> God's Holy Word.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Is God the author of all books?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly not.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have I the right to say that God did<br /> not write
+      the Koran?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because the Koran was written by an<br /> impostor.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you know?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. My
+      reason tells me so.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have you the right to be
+      guided by<br /> your reason?<br /> <br /> 437<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I
+      must be.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Have you the same right to follow
+      your<br /> reason after reading the Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No.
+      The Bible is the standard of reason.<br /> The Bible is not to be judged or
+      corrected by your<br /> reason. Your reason is to be weighed and measured<br />
+      by the Bible. The Bible is different from other<br /> books and must not be
+      read in the same critical spirit,<br /> nor judged by the same standard.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What did God give us reason for?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      So that we might investigate other<br /> religions, and examine other
+      so-called sacred books.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. If a man honestly
+      thinks that the Bible<br /> is not inspired, what should he say?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. He should admit that he is mistaken.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      When he thinks he is right?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes. The Bible is
+      different from other<br /> books. It is the master of reason. You read the<br />
+      Bible, not to see if that is wrong, but to see<br /> whether your reason is
+      right. It is the only book<br /> about which a man has no right to reason.
+      He must<br /> believe. The Bible is addressed, not to the reason,<br /> but
+      to the ears: "He that hath ears to hear, let<br /> "him hear."<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Do you think we have the right to tell<br /> <br /> 438<br />
+      <br /> what the Bible means&mdash;what ideas God intended to<br /> convey,
+      or has conveyed to us, through the medium<br /> of the Bible?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Well, I suppose you have that right.<br /> Yes, that must be your duty. You
+      certainly ought<br /> to tell others what God has said to you.<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Do all men get the same ideas from<br /> the Bible?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you account
+      for that?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because all men are not alike; they<br />
+      differ in intellect, in education, and in experience.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Who has the right to decide as to the<br /> real ideas that God intended to
+      convey?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I am a Protestant, and believe in the<br />
+      right of private judgment. Whoever does not is a<br /> Catholic. Each man
+      must be his own judge, but God<br /> will hold him responsible.<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Does God believe in the right of private<br /> judgment?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Of course he does.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Is he
+      willing that I should exercise my<br /> judgment in deciding whether the
+      Bible is inspired or<br /> not?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. No. He believes
+      in the exercise of<br /> <br /> 439<br /> <br /> private judgment only in the
+      examination and rejec-<br /> tion of other books than the Bible.<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Is he a Catholic?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. I cannot
+      answer blasphemy! Let me<br /> tell you that God will "laugh at your
+      calamity, and<br /> "will mock when your fear cometh." You will be<br />
+      accursed.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Why do you curse infidels?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Because I am a Christian.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Did not Christ say that we ought to<br /> "bless those who curse us," and
+      that we should<br /> "love our enemies"?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes, but
+      he cursed the Pharisees and<br /> called them "hypocrites" and "vipers."<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. How do you account for that?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      It simply shows the difference between<br /> theory and practice.<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you consider the best way to<br /> answer
+      infidels.<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The old way is the best. You should<br />
+      say that their arguments are ancient, and have been<br /> answered over and
+      over again. If this does not<br /> satisfy your hearers, then you should
+      attack the<br /> character of the infidel&mdash;then that of his parents&mdash;<br />
+      then that of his children.<br /> <br /> 440<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Suppose that the infidel is a good man,<br /> how will you answer him then?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. But an infidel cannot be a good man.<br /> Even if he
+      is, it is better that he should lose his<br /> reputation, than that
+      thousands should lose their<br /> souls. We know that all infidels are vile
+      and infa-<br /> mous. We may not have the evidence, but we know<br /> that
+      it exists.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. How should infidels be treated?
+      Should<br /> Christians try to convert them?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      Christians should have nothing to do<br /> with infidels. It is not safe
+      even to converse with<br /> them. They are always talking about reason, and<br />
+      facts, and experience. They are filled with sophistry<br /> and should be
+      avoided.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Should Christians pray for the con-<br />
+      version of infidels?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Yes; but such prayers
+      should be made<br /> in public and the name of the infidel should be given<br />
+      and his vile and hideous heart portrayed so that the<br /> young may be
+      warned.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. Whom do you regard as infidels?<br />
+      <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The scientists&mdash;the geologists, the as-<br />
+      tronomers, the naturalists, the philosophers. No one<br /> can overestimate
+      the evil that has been wrought<br /> <br /> 441<br /> <br /> by Laplace,
+      Humboldt, Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel,<br /> Renan, Emerson, Strauss, Bikhner,
+      Tyndall, and<br /> their wretched followers. These men pretended to<br />
+      know more than Moses and the prophets. They<br /> were "dogs baying at the
+      moon." They were<br /> "wolves" and "fools." They tried to "assassinate<br />
+      "God," and worse than all, they actually laughed<br /> at the clergy,<br />
+      <br /> <i>Question</i>. Do you think they did, and are doing<br /> great
+      harm?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Certainly. Of what use are all the<br />
+      sciences, if you lose your own soul? People in hell<br /> will care nothing
+      about education. The rich man<br /> said nothing about science, he wanted
+      water.<br /> Neither will they care about books and theories<br /> in
+      heaven. If a man is perfectly happy, it makes<br /> no difference how
+      ignorant he is.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. But how can he answer these
+      scientists?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. Well, my advice is to let their
+      argu-<br /> ments alone. Of course, you will deny all their<br /> facts; but
+      the most effective way is to attack their<br /> character.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      But suppose they are good men,&mdash;<br /> what then?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      The better they are, the worse they are.<br /> <br /> 442<br /> <br /> We
+      cannot admit that the infidel is really good. He<br /> may appear to be
+      good, and it is our duty to strip<br /> the mask of appearance from the
+      face of unbelief. If<br /> a man is not a Christian, he is totally
+      depraved, and<br /> why should we hesitate to make a misstatement<br />
+      about a man whom God is going to make miserable<br /> forever?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Question</i>. Are we not commanded to love our<br /> enemies?<br /> <br />
+      <i>Answer</i>. Yes, but not the enemies of God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      Do you fear the final triumph of infi-<br /> delity?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      No. We have no fear. We believe<br /> that the Bible can be revised often
+      enough to agree<br /> with anything that may really be necessary to the<br />
+      preservation of the church. We can always rely<br /> upon revision. Let me
+      tell you that the Bible is the<br /> most peculiar of books. At the time
+      God inspired his<br /> holy prophets to write it, he knew exactly what the<br />
+      discoveries and demonstrations of the future would<br /> be, and he wrote
+      his Bible in such a way that the<br /> words could always be interpreted in
+      accordance with<br /> the intelligence of each age, and so that the words<br />
+      used are capable of several meanings, so that, no<br /> matter what may
+      hereafter be discovered, the Bible<br /> <br /> 443<br /> <br /> will be found
+      to agree with it,&mdash;for the reason that<br /> the knowledge of Hebrew
+      will grow in the exact<br /> proportion that discoveries are made in other
+      depart-<br /> ments of knowledge. You will therefore see, that all<br />
+      efforts of infidelity to destroy the Bible will simply<br /> result in
+      giving a better translation.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you
+      consider is the strongest<br /> argument in favor of the inspiration of the
+      Scrip-<br /> tures?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The dying words of
+      Christians.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>. What do you consider the strongest<br />
+      argument against the truth of infidelity?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>. The
+      dying words of infidels. You know<br /> how terrible were the death-bed
+      scenes of Hume,<br /> Voltaire, Paine and Hobbes, as described by hundreds<br />
+      of persons who were not present; while all Christians<br /> have died with
+      the utmost serenity, and with their<br /> last words have testified to the
+      sustaining power of<br /> faith in the goodness of God.<br /> <br /> <i>Question</i>.
+      What were the last words of Jesus<br /> Christ?<br /> <br /> <i>Answer</i>.
+      "My God, my God, why hast thou for-<br /> "saken me?"<br /> <br /> <br />
+      <br /> <a name="link0010" id="link0010"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>A
+      VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.</b></big><br /> <br /> <br /> <i>"To argue with
+      a man who has renounced the use and<br /> authority of reason, is like
+      administering<br /> medicine to the dead."&mdash;Thomas Paine.</i><br />
+      <br /> <br /> Peoria, October 8, 1877.<br /> <br /> To the Editor of the N Y.
+      Observer:<br /> <br /> Sir: Last June in San Francisco, I offered a<br />
+      thousand dollars in gold&mdash;not as a wager, but as a<br /> gift&mdash;to
+      any one who would substantiate the absurd<br /> story that Thomas Paine
+      died in agony and fear,<br /> frightened by the clanking chains of devils.
+      I also<br /> offered the same amount to any minister who would<br /> prove
+      that Voltaire did not pass away as serenely as<br /> the coming of the
+      dawn. Afterward I was informed<br /> that you had accepted the offer, and
+      had called upon<br /> me to deposit the money. Acting upon this inform-<br />
+      ation, I sent you the following letter:<br /> <br /> Peoria, Ill., August
+      31st, 1877.<br /> <br /> To the Editor of the New York Observer:<br /> <br />
+      I have been informed that you accepted, in your<br /> paper, an offer made
+      by me to any clergyman in<br /> San Francisco. That offer was, that I would
+      pay<br /> <br /> 448<br /> <br /> one thousand dollars in gold to any minister
+      in that<br /> city who would prove that Thomas Paine died in<br /> terror
+      because of religious opinions he had ex-<br /> pressed, or that Voltaire
+      did not pass away serenely<br /> as the coming of the dawn.<br /> <br /> For
+      many years religious journals and ministers<br /> have been circulating
+      certain pretended accounts of<br /> the frightful agonies endured by Paine
+      and Voltaire<br /> when dying; that these great men at the moment of<br />
+      death were terrified because they had given their<br /> honest opinions
+      upon the subject of religion to their<br /> fellow-men. The imagination of
+      the religious world<br /> has been taxed to the utmost in inventing absurd<br />
+      and infamous accounts of the last moments of these<br /> intellectual
+      giants. Every Sunday school paper,<br /> thousands of idiotic tracts, and
+      countless stupidities<br /> called sermons, have been filled with these
+      calumnies.<br /> <br /> Paine and Voltaire both believed in God&mdash;both<br />
+      hoped for immortality&mdash;both believed in special<br /> providence. But
+      both denied the inspiration of the<br /> Scriptures&mdash;both denied the
+      divinity of Jesus Christ.<br /> While theologians most cheerfully admit
+      that most<br /> murderers die without fear, they deny the possibility<br />
+      of any man who has expressed his disbelief in the<br /> inspiration of the
+      Bible dying except in an agony of<br /> terror. These stories are used in
+      revivals and in<br /> <br /> 449<br /> <br /> Sunday schools, and have long
+      been considered of<br /> great value.<br /> <br /> I am anxious that these
+      slanders shall cease. I<br /> am desirous of seeing justice done, even at
+      this late<br /> day, to the dead.<br /> <br /> For the purpose of
+      ascertaining the evidence upon<br /> which these death-bed accounts really
+      rest, I make<br /> to you the following proposition:&mdash;<br /> <br />
+      First.&mdash;As to Thomas Paine: I will deposit with<br /> the First
+      National Bank of Peoria, Illinois, one thou-<br /> sand dollars in gold,
+      upon the following conditions:<br /> This money shall be subject to your
+      order when<br /> you shall, in the manner hereinafter provided, sub-<br />
+      stantiate that Thomas Paine admitted the Bible to be<br /> an inspired
+      book, or that he recanted his Infidel<br /> opinions&mdash;or that he died
+      regretting that he had dis-<br /> believed the Bible&mdash;or that he died
+      calling upon<br /> Jesus Christ in any religious sense whatever.<br /> <br />
+      In order that a tribunal may be created to try this<br /> question, you may
+      select one man, I will select<br /> another, and the two thus chosen shall
+      select a third,<br /> and any two of the three may decide the matter.<br />
+      <br /> As there will be certain costs and expenditures on<br /> both sides,
+      such costs and expenditures shall be paid<br /> by the defeated party.<br />
+      <br /> In addition to the one thousand dollars in gold, I<br /> <br /> 450<br />
+      <br /> will deposit a bond with good and sufficient security<br /> in the
+      sum of two thousand dollars, conditioned for<br /> the payment of all costs
+      in case I am defeated. I<br /> shall require of you a like bond.<br /> <br />
+      From the date of accepting this offer you may<br /> have ninety days to
+      collect and present your testi-<br /> mony, giving me notice of time and
+      place of taking<br /> depositions. I shall have a like time to take evi-<br />
+      dence upon my side, giving you like notice, and you<br /> shall then have
+      thirty days to take further testimony<br /> in reply to what I may offer.
+      The case shall then<br /> be argued before the persons chosen; and their<br />
+      decisions shall be final as to us.<br /> <br /> If the arbitrator chosen by
+      me shall die, I shall<br /> have the right to choose another. You shall
+      have<br /> the same right. If the third one, chosen by our two,<br /> shall
+      die, the two shall choose another; and all va-<br /> cancies, from whatever
+      cause, shall be filled upon the<br /> same principle.<br /> <br /> The
+      arbitrators shall sit when and where a major-<br /> ity shall determine,
+      and shall have full power to pass<br /> upon all questions arising as to
+      competency of<br /> evidence, and upon all subjects.<br /> <br /> <i>Second</i>.&mdash;As
+      to Voltaire: I make the same prop-<br /> osition, if you will substantiate
+      that Voltaire died<br /> expressing remorse or showing in any way that he<br />
+      <br /> 451<br /> <br /> was in mental agony because he had attacked Catholi-<br />
+      cism&mdash;or because he had denied the inspiration of the<br /> Bible&mdash;or
+      because he had denied the divinity of Christ.<br /> <br /> I make these
+      propositions because I want you<br /> to stop slandering the dead.<br />
+      <br /> If the propositions do not suit you in any particu-<br /> lar, please
+      state your objections, and I will modify<br /> them in any way consistent
+      with the object in view.<br /> <br /> If Paine and Voltaire died filled with
+      childish and<br /> silly fear, I want to know it, and I want the world to<br />
+      know it. On the other hand, if the believers in<br /> superstition have
+      made and circulated these cruel<br /> slanders concerning the mighty dead,
+      I want the<br /> world to know that.<br /> <br /> As soon as you notify me of
+      the acceptance of<br /> these propositions I will send you the certificate
+      of<br /> the bank that the money has been deposited upon<br /> the foregoing
+      conditions, together with copies of<br /> bonds for costs. Yours truly,<br />
+      <br /> R. G. Ingersoll.<br /> <br /> In your paper of September 27, 1877, you
+      acknowl-<br /> edge the receipt of the foregoing letter, and after<br />
+      giving an outline of its contents, say: "As not one<br /> of the
+      affirmations, in the form stated in this letter,<br /> was contained in the
+      offer we made, we have no<br /> occasion to substantiate them. But we are
+      prepared<br /> <br /> 452<br /> <br /> to produce the evidence of the truth of
+      our own<br /> statement, and even to go further; to show not only<br /> that
+      Tom Paine 'died a drunken, cowardly, and<br /> beastly death,' but that for
+      many years previous, and<br /> up to that event he lived a drunken and
+      beastly life."<br /> In order to refresh your memory as to what you<br />
+      had published, I call your attention to the following,<br /> which appeared
+      in the N. Y. Observer, July 19, 1877:<br /> "Put Down the Money.<br /> <br />
+      "Col. Bob Ingersoll, in a speech full of ribaldry<br /> and blasphemy, made
+      in San Francisco recently, said:<br /> "I will give $1,000 in gold coin to
+      any clergyman<br /> who can substantiate that the death of Voltaire was<br />
+      not as peaceful as the dawn; and of Tom Paine whom<br /> they assert died
+      in fear and agony, frightened by the<br /> clanking chains of devils&mdash;in
+      fact frightened to death<br /> by God. I will give $1,000 likewise to any
+      one who<br /> can substantiate this 'absurd story'&mdash;a story without<br />
+      a word of truth in it."<br /> <br /> "We have published the testimony, and
+      the wit-<br /> nesses are on hand to prove that Tom Paine died a<br />
+      drunken, cowardly and beastly death. Let the Colo-<br /> nel deposit the
+      money with any honest man, and the<br /> absurd story, as he terms it,
+      shall be shown to be an<br /> ower true tale. But he wont do it. His talk
+      is Infi-<br /> del 'buncombe' and nothing more."<br /> <br /> 453<br /> <br />
+      On the 31st of August I sent you my letter, and<br /> on the 27th of
+      September you say in your paper:<br /> "As not one of the affirmations in
+      the form stated<br /> in this letter was contained in the offer we made, we<br />
+      have no occasion to substantiate them."<br /> <br /> What were the
+      affirmations contained in the offer<br /> you made? I had offered a
+      thousand dollars in gold<br /> to any one who would substantiate "the
+      absurd story"<br /> that Thomas Paine died in fear and agony,frightened<br />
+      by the clanking chains of devils&mdash;in fact, frightened to<br /> death
+      by God.<br /> <br /> In response to this offer you said: "Let the Colo-<br />
+      nel deposit the money with an honest man and the<br /> 'absurd story' as he
+      terms it, shall be shown to be<br /> an 'ower true tale.' But he won't do
+      it. His talk<br /> is infidel 'buncombe' and nothing more."<br /> <br /> Did
+      you not offer to prove that Paine died in fear<br /> and agony, frightened
+      by the clanking chains of<br /> devils? Did you not ask me to deposit the
+      money<br /> that you might prove the "absurd story" to be an<br /> "ower
+      true tale" and obtain the money? Did you<br /> not in your paper of the
+      twenty-seventh of September<br /> in effect deny that you had offered to
+      prove this<br /> "absurd story"? As soon as I offered to deposit<br /> the
+      gold and give bonds besides to cover costs, did<br /> you not publish a
+      falsehood?<br /> <br /> 454<br /> <br /> You have eaten your own words, and,
+      for my<br /> part, I would rather have dined with Ezekiel than<br /> with
+      you.<br /> <br /> You have not met the issue. You have know-<br /> ingly
+      avoided it. The question was not as to the<br /> personal habits of Paine.
+      The real question was<br /> and is, whether Paine was filled with fear and
+      horror<br /> at the time of his death on account of his religious<br />
+      opinions. That is the question. You avoid this.<br /> In effect, you
+      abandon that charge and make others.<br /> <br /> To you belongs the honor
+      of having made the<br /> most cruel and infamous charges against Thomas<br />
+      Paine that have ever been made. Of what you<br /> have said you cannot
+      prove the truth of one word.<br /> <br /> You say that Thomas Paine died a
+      drunken,<br /> cowardly and beastly death.<br /> <br /> I pronounce this
+      charge to be a cowardly and<br /> beastly falsehood.<br /> <br /> Have you
+      any evidence that he was in a drunken<br /> condition when he died?<br />
+      <br /> What did he say or do of a cowardly character<br /> just before, or
+      at about the time of his death?<br /> <br /> In what way was his death
+      cowardly? You must<br /> answer these questions, and give your proof, or
+      all<br /> honest men will hold you in abhorrence. You have<br /> made these
+      charges. The man against whom you<br /> <br /> Vindication of thomas paine.<br />
+      <br /> 455<br /> <br /> make them is dead. He cannot answer you. I<br /> can.
+      He cannot compel you to produce your testi-<br /> mony, or admit by your
+      silence that you have<br /> cruelly slandered the defenceless dead. I can
+      and I<br /> will. You say that his death was cowardly. In<br /> what
+      respect? Was it cowardly in him to hold the<br /> Thirty-Nine Articles in
+      contempt? Was it cowardly<br /> not to call on your Lord? Was it cowardly
+      not to<br /> be afraid? You say that his death was beastly.<br /> Again I
+      ask, in what respect? Was it beastly to<br /> submit to the inevitable with
+      tranquillity? Was it<br /> beastly to look with composure upon the approach<br />
+      of death? Was it beastly to die without a com-<br /> plaint, without a
+      murmur&mdash;to pass from life without<br /> a fear?<br /> <br /> Did Thomas
+      Paine Recant?<br /> <br /> Mr. Paine had prophesied that fanatics would<br />
+      crawl and cringe around him during his last mo-<br /> ments. He believed
+      that they would put a lie in<br /> the mouth of Death.<br /> <br /> When the
+      shadow of the coming dissolution was<br /> upon him, two clergymen, Messrs.
+      Milledollar and<br /> Cunningham, called to annoy the dying man. Mr.<br />
+      Cunningham had the politeness to say, "You have<br /> now a full view of
+      death you cannot live long, and<br /> whosoever does not believe in the
+      Lord Jesus Christ<br /> <br /> 456<br /> <br /> will asuredly be damned." Mr.
+      Paine replied, "Let<br /> me have none of your popish stuff. Get away with<br />
+      you. Good morning."<br /> <br /> On another occasion a Methodist minister
+      ob-<br /> truded himself when Willet Hicks was present.<br /> This minister
+      declared to Mr. Paine "that unless he<br /> repented of his unbelief he
+      would be damned."<br /> Paine, although at the door of death, rose in his
+      bed<br /> and indignantly requested the clergyman to leave<br /> his room.
+      On another occasion, two brothers by<br /> the name of Pigott, sought to
+      convert him. He was<br /> displeased and requested their departure. After-<br />
+      ward Thomas Nixon and Captain Daniel Pelton<br /> visited him for the
+      express purpose of ascertaining<br /> whether he had, in any manner,
+      changed his relig-<br /> ious opinions. They were assured by the dying<br />
+      man that he still held the principles he had expressed<br /> in his
+      writings.<br /> <br /> Afterward, these gentlemen hearing that William<br />
+      Cobbett was about to write a life of Paine, sent him<br /> the following
+      note:<br /> <br /> New York, April 24, 1818.<br /> <br /> "Sir: We have been
+      informed that you have a de-<br /> sign to write a history of the life and
+      writings of<br /> Thomas Paine. If you have been furnished with<br />
+      materials in respect to his religious opinions, or<br /> <br /> 457<br />
+      <br /> rather of his recantation of his former opinions before<br /> his
+      death, all you have heard of his recanting is false.<br /> Being aware that
+      such reports would be raised after<br /> his death by fanatics who infested
+      his house at the<br /> time it was expected he would die, we, the subscrib-<br />
+      ers, intimate acquaintances of Thomas Paine since<br /> the year 1776, went
+      to his house. He was sitting<br /> up in a chair, and apparently in full
+      vigor and use of<br /> all his mental faculties. We interrogated him upon<br />
+      his religious opinions, and if he had changed his<br /> mind, or repented
+      of anything he had said or wrote<br /> on that subject. He answered, "Not
+      at all," and<br /> appeared rather offended at our supposition that any<br />
+      change should take place in his mind. We took<br /> down in writing the
+      questions put to him and his<br /> answers thereto before a number of
+      persons then in<br /> his room, among whom were his doctor, Mrs.<br />
+      Bonneville, etc. paper is mislaid and cannot<br /> be found at present, but
+      the above is the substance<br /> which can be attested by many living
+      witnesses."<br /> <br /> Thomas Nixon.<br /> <br /> Daniel Pelton.<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Jarvis, the artist, saw Mr. Paine one or two<br /> days before his
+      death. To Mr. Jarvis he expressed<br /> his belief in his written opinions
+      upon the subject of<br /> religion. B. F. Haskin, an attorney of the city
+      of<br /> <br /> 458<br /> <br /> New York, also visited him and inquired as to
+      his<br /> religious opinions. Paine was then upon the thresh-<br /> old of
+      death, but he did not tremble. He was not a<br /> coward. He expressed his
+      firm and unshaken belief<br /> in the religious ideas he had given to the
+      world.<br /> <br /> Dr. Manley was with him when he spoke his last<br />
+      words. Dr. Manley asked the dying man if he did<br /> not wish to believe
+      that Jesus was the Son of God,<br /> and the dying philosopher answered: "I
+      have no<br /> wish to believe on that subject." Amasa Woodsworth<br /> <br />
+      sat up with Thomas Paine the night before his<br /> death. In 1839 Gilbert
+      Vale hearing that Mr.<br /> Woodsworth was living in or near Boston,
+      visited<br /> him for the purpose of getting his statement. The<br />
+      statement was published in the Beacon of June 5,<br /> 1839, while
+      thousands who had been acquainted with<br /> Mr. Paine were living.<br />
+      <br /> The following is the article referred to.<br /> <br /> "We have just
+      returned from Boston. One ob-<br /> ject of our visit to that city, was to
+      see a Mr. Amasa<br /> Woodsworth, an engineer, now retired in a hand-<br />
+      some cottage and garden at East Cambridge, Boston.<br /> This gentleman
+      owned the house occupied by Paine<br /> at his death&mdash;while he lived
+      next door. As an act<br /> of kindness Mr. Woodsworth visited Mr. Paine
+      every<br /> day for six weeks before his death. He frequently<br /> <br />
+      459<br /> <br /> sat up with him, and did so on the last two nights of<br />
+      his life. He was always there with Dr. Manley, the<br /> physician, and
+      assisted in removing Mr. Paine while<br /> his bed was prepared. He was
+      present when Dr.<br /> Manley asked Mr. Paine "if he wished to believe<br />
+      that Jesus Christ was the Son of God," and he de-<br /> scribes Mr. Paine's
+      answer as animated. He says<br /> that lying on his back he used some
+      action and with<br /> much emphasis, replied, "I have no wish to believe<br />
+      on that subject." He lived some time after this, but<br /> was not known to
+      speak, for he died tranquilly. He<br /> accounts for the insinuating style
+      of Dr. Manley's<br /> letter, by stating that that gentleman just after its<br />
+      publication joined a church. He informs us that he<br /> has openly
+      reproved the doctor for the falsity con-<br /> tained in the spirit of that
+      letter, boldly declaring be-<br /> fore Dr. Manley, who is yet living, that
+      nothing<br /> which he saw justified the insinuations. Mr. Woods-<br />
+      worth assures us that he neither heard nor saw any-<br /> thing to justify
+      the belief of any mental change in<br /> the opinions of Mr. Paine previous
+      to his death; but<br /> that being very ill and in pain chiefly arising
+      from<br /> the skin being removed in some parts by long lying,<br /> he was
+      generally too uneasy to enjoy conversation<br /> on abstract subjects.
+      This, then, is the best evidence<br /> that can be procured on this
+      subject, and we publish<br /> <br /> 460<br /> <br /> it while the
+      contravening parties are yet alive, and<br /> with the authority of Mr.
+      Woodsworth.<br /> <br /> Gilbert Vale.<br /> <br /> A few weeks ago I received
+      the following letter<br /> which confirms the statement of Mr. Vale:<br />
+      <br /> Near Stockton, Cal., Green-<br /> wood Cottage, July 9, 1877.<br />
+      <br /> Col. Ingersoll: In 1842 I talked with a gentle-<br /> man in Boston.
+      I have forgotten his name; but he was<br /> then an engineer of the
+      Charleston navy yard. I am<br /> thus particular so that you can find his
+      name on the<br /> books. He told me that he nursed Thomas Paine<br /> in his
+      last illness, and closed his eyes when dead. I<br /> asked him if he
+      recanted and called upon God to<br /> save him. He replied, "No. He died as
+      he had<br /> taught. He had a sore upon his side and when we<br /> turned
+      him it was very painful and he would cry out<br /> 'O God!' or something
+      like that." "But," said<br /> the narrator, "that was nothing, for he
+      believed in a<br /> God." I told him that I had often heard it asserted<br />
+      from the pulpit that Mr. Paine had recanted in his<br /> last moments. The
+      gentleman said that it was not<br /> true, and he appeared to be an
+      intelligent, truthful<br /> man. With respect, I remain, etc.<br /> <br />
+      Philip Graves, M. D.<br /> <br /> 461<br /> <br /> The next witness is Willet
+      Hicks, a Quaker<br /> preacher. He says that during the last illness of<br />
+      Mr. Paine he visited him almost daily, and that<br /> Paine died firmly
+      convinced of the truth of the relig-<br /> ious opinions he had given to
+      his fellow-men. It<br /> was to this same Willet Hicks that Paine applied
+      for<br /> permission to be buried in the cemetery of the<br /> Quakers.
+      Permission was refused. This refusal<br /> settles the question of
+      recantation. If he had re-<br /> canted, of course there could have been no
+      objection<br /> to his body being buried by the side of the best<br />
+      hypocrites on the earth.<br /> <br /> If Paine recanted why should he be
+      denied "a<br /> little earth for charity"? Had he recanted, it<br /> would
+      have been regarded as a vast and splendid<br /> triumph for the gospel. It
+      would with much noise<br /> and pomp and ostentation have been heralded<br />
+      about the world.<br /> <br /> I received the following letter to-day. The<br />
+      writer is well know in this city, and is a man of<br /> high character:<br />
+      <br /> Peoria, Oct. 8th, 1877.<br /> <br /> Robert G. Ingersoll, Esteemed
+      Friend: My<br /> parents were Friends (Quakers). My father died<br /> when I
+      was very young. The elderly and middle-<br /> aged Friends visited at my
+      mother's house. We<br /> <br /> 462<br /> <br /> lived in the city of New
+      York. Among the number<br /> I distinctly remember Elias Hicks, Willet
+      Hicks,<br /> <br /> and a Mr.-Day, who was a bookseller in Pearl<br /> <br />
+      street. There were many others, whose names I<br /> do not now remember.
+      The subject of the recanta-<br /> tion by Thomas Paine of his views about
+      the Bible<br /> in his last illness, or at any other time, was dis-<br />
+      cussed by them in my presence at different times.<br /> I learned from them
+      that some of them had attended<br /> upon Thomas Paine in his last sickness
+      and minis-<br /> tered to his wants up to the time of his death.<br /> And
+      upon the question of whether he did recant<br /> there was but one
+      expression. They all said that<br /> he did not recant in any manner. I
+      often heard<br /> them say they wished he had recanted. In fact,<br />
+      according to them, the nearer he approached death<br /> the more positive
+      he appeared to be in his con-<br /> victions.<br /> <br /> These
+      conversations were from 1820 to 1822. I<br /> was at that time from ten to
+      twelve years old, but<br /> these conversations impressed themselves upon
+      me<br /> because many thoughtless people then blamed the<br /> Society of
+      Friends for their kindness to that "arch<br /> Infidel," Thomas Paine..<br />
+      <br /> Truly yours,<br /> <br /> A. C. Hankinson.<br /> <br /> 463<br /> <br /> A
+      few days ago I received the following letter:<br /> Albany, New York, Sept.
+      27, 1877.<br /> <br /> Dear Sir: It is over twenty years ago that pro-<br />
+      fessionally I made the acquaintance of John Hogeboom,<br /> <br /> a Justice
+      of the Peace of the county of<br /> Rensselaer, New York. He was then over
+      seventy<br /> years of age and had the reputation of being a man<br /> of
+      candor and integrity. He was a great admirer of<br /> Paine. He told me
+      that he was personally ac-<br /> quainted with him, and used to see him
+      frequently<br /> during the last years of his life in the city of New<br />
+      York, where Hogeboom then resided. I asked him<br /> if there was any truth
+      in the charge that Paine was<br /> in the habit of getting drunk. He said
+      that it was<br /> utterly false; that he never heard of such a thing<br />
+      during the life-time of Mr. Paine, and did not believe<br /> any one else
+      did. I asked him about the recantation<br /> of his religious opinions on
+      his death-bed, and the<br /> revolting death-bed scenes that the world had
+      heard<br /> so much about. He said there was no truth in<br /> them, that he
+      had received his information from<br /> persons who attended Paine in his
+      last illness, "and<br /> that he passed peacefully away, as we may say, in<br />
+      the sunshine of a great soul."...<br /> <br /> Yours truly,<br /> <br /> W. J.
+      Hilton,<br /> <br /> 464<br /> <br /> The witnesses by whom I substantiate the
+      fact<br /> that Thomas Paine did not recant, and that he died<br /> holding
+      the religious opinions he had published, are:<br /> First&mdash;Thomas
+      Nixon, Captain Daniel Pelton,<br /> B. F. Haskin. These gentlemen visited
+      him during<br /> his last illness for the purpose of ascertaining whether<br />
+      he had in any respect changed his views upon relig-<br /> ion. He told them
+      that he had not.<br /> <br /> Second&mdash;James Cheetham. This man was the<br />
+      most malicious enemy Mr. Paine had, and yet he<br /> admits that "Thomas
+      Paine died placidly, and al-<br /> most without a struggle." (See Life of
+      Thomas<br /> Paine, by James Cheetham).<br /> <br /> Third&mdash;The
+      ministers, Milledollar and Cunning-<br /> ham. These gentlemen told Mr.
+      Paine that if he<br /> died without believing in the Lord Jesus Christ he<br />
+      would be damned, and Paine replied, "Let me have<br /> none of your popish
+      stuff. Good morning." (See<br /> Sherwin's Life of Paine, p. 220).<br />
+      <br /> Fourth&mdash;Mrs. Hedden. She told these same<br /> preachers when
+      they attempted to obtrude them-<br /> selves upon Mr. Paine again, that the
+      attempt to<br /> convert Mr. Paine was useless&mdash;"that if God did not<br />
+      change his mind no human power could."<br /> <br /> Fifth&mdash;Andrew A.
+      Dean. This man lived upon<br /> Paine's farm at New Rochelle, and
+      corresponded<br /> <br /> 465<br /> <br /> with him upon religious subjects.
+      (See Paine's<br /> Theological Works, p. 308.)<br /> <br /> Sixth&mdash;Mr.
+      Jarvis, the artist with whom Paine<br /> lived. He gives an account of an
+      old lady coming<br /> to Paine and telling him that God Almighty had<br />
+      sent her to tell him that unless he repented and be-<br /> lieved in the
+      blessed Savior, he would be damned.<br /> Paine replied that God would not
+      send such a foolish<br /> old woman with such an impertinent message. (See<br />
+      Clio Rickman's Life of Paine.)<br /> <br /> Seventh&mdash;Wm. Carver, with
+      whom Paine boarded.<br /> Mr. Carver said again and again that Paine did
+      not<br /> recant. He knew him well, and had every opportun-<br /> ity of
+      knowing. (See Life of Paine by Gilbert Vale.)<br /> <br /> Eighth&mdash;Dr.
+      Manley, who attended him in his last<br /> sickness, and to whom Paine
+      spoke his last words.<br /> Dr. Manley asked him if he did not wish to
+      believe in<br /> Jesus Christ, and he replied, "I have no wish to<br />
+      believe on that subject."<br /> <br /> Ninth&mdash;Willet Hicks and Elias
+      Hicks, who were<br /> with him frequently during his last sickness, and<br />
+      both of whom tried to persuade him to recant. Ac-<br /> cording to their
+      testimony, Mr. Paine died as he had<br /> lived&mdash;a believer in God,
+      and a friend of man.<br /> Willet Hicks was offered money to say something<br />
+      false against Thomas Paine. He was even offered<br /> <br /> 466<br /> <br />
+      money to remain silent and allow others to slander<br /> the dead. Mr.
+      Hicks, speaking of Thomas Paine,<br /> said: "He was a good man&mdash;an
+      honest man."<br /> (Vale's Life of Paine.)<br /> <br /> Tenth&mdash;Amasa
+      Woodsworth, who was with him<br /> every day for some six weeks immediately
+      preceding<br /> his death, and sat up with him the last two nights of<br />
+      his life. This man declares that Paine did not recant<br /> and that he
+      died tranquilly. The evidence of Mr.<br /> Woodsworth is conclusive.<br />
+      <br /> Eleventh&mdash;Thomas Paine himself. The will of<br /> Thomas Paine,
+      written by himself, commences as<br /> follows:<br /> <br /> "The last will
+      and testament of me, the subscriber,<br /> Thomas Paine, reposing
+      confidence in my creator<br /> God, and in no other being, for I know of no
+      other,<br /> nor believe in any other;" and closes in these words;<br /> "I
+      have lived an honest and useful life to mankind;<br /> my time has been
+      spent in doing good, and I die in<br /> perfect composure and resignation
+      to the will of my<br /> creator God."<br /> <br /> Twelfth&mdash;If Thomas
+      Paine recanted, why do you<br /> pursue him? If he recanted, he died
+      substantially<br /> in your belief, for what reason then do you denounce<br />
+      his death as cowardly? If upon his death-bed he<br /> renounced the
+      opinions he had published, the busi-<br /> <br /> 467<br /> <br /> ness of
+      defaming him should be done by Infidels, not<br /> by Christians.<br />
+      <br /> I ask you if it is honest to throw away the testi-<br /> mony of his
+      friends&mdash;the evidence of fair and honor-<br /> able men&mdash;and take
+      the putrid words of avowed and<br /> malignant enemies?<br /> <br /> When
+      Thomas Paine was dying, he was infested<br /> by fanatics&mdash;by the
+      snaky spies of bigotry. In the<br /> shadows of death were the unclean
+      birds of prey<br /> waiting to tear with beak and claw the corpse of him<br />
+      who wrote the "Rights of Man." And there lurk-<br /> ing and crouching in
+      the darkness were the jackals<br /> and hyenas of superstition ready to
+      violate his grave.<br /> <br /> These birds of prey&mdash;these unclean
+      beasts are the<br /> witnesses produced and relied upon by you.<br /> <br />
+      One by one the instruments of torture have been<br /> wrenched from the
+      cruel clutch of the church, until<br /> within the armory of orthodoxy
+      there remains but<br /> one weapon&mdash;Slander.<br /> <br /> Against the
+      witnesses that I have produced you<br /> can bring just two&mdash;Mary
+      Roscoe and Mary Hins-<br /> dale. The first is referred to in the memoir of<br />
+      Stephen Grellet. She had once been a servant in his<br /> house. Grellet
+      tells what happened between this<br /> girl and Paine. According to this
+      account Paine<br /> asked her if she had ever read any of his writings,<br />
+      <br /> 468<br /> <br /> and on being told that she had read very little of<br />
+      them, he inquired what she thought of them, adding<br /> that from such an
+      one as she he expected a correct<br /> answer.<br /> <br /> Let us examine
+      this falsehood. Why would Paine<br /> expect a correct answer about his
+      writings from one<br /> who had read very little of them? Does not such a<br />
+      statement devour itself? This young lady further<br /> said that the "Age
+      of Reason" was put in her hands<br /> and that the more she read in it the
+      more dark and<br /> distressed she felt, and that she threw the book into<br />
+      the fire. Whereupon Mr. Paine remarked, "I wish<br /> all had done as you
+      did, for if the devil ever had any<br /> agency in any work, he had it in
+      my writing that book."<br /> <br /> The next is Mary Hinsdale. She was a
+      servant<br /> in the family of Willet Hicks. She, like Mary Ros-<br /> coe,
+      was sent to carry some delicacy to Mr. Paine.<br /> To this young lady
+      Paine, according to her account,<br /> said precisely the same that he did
+      to Mary Roscoe,<br /> and she said the same thing to Mr. Paine.<br /> <br />
+      My own opinion is that Mary Roscoe and Mary<br /> Hinsdale are one and the
+      same person, or the same<br /> story has been by mistake put in the mouth
+      of both.<br /> <br /> It is not possible that the same conversation should<br />
+      have taken place between Paine and Mary Roscoe,<br /> and between him and
+      Mary Hinsdale.<br /> <br /> 469<br /> <br /> Mary Hinsdale lived with Willet
+      Hicks and he<br /> pronounced her story a pious fraud and fabrication.<br />
+      He said that Thomas Paine never said any such<br /> thing to Mary Hinsdale.
+      (See Vale's Life of<br /> Paine.)<br /> <br /> Another thing about this
+      witness. A woman by<br /> the name of Mary Lockwood, a Hicksite Quaker,<br />
+      died. Mary Hinsdale met her brother about that<br /> time and told him that
+      his sister had recanted, and<br /> wanted her to say so at her funeral.
+      This turned<br /> out to be false.<br /> <br /> It has been claimed that Mary
+      Hinsdale made her<br /> statement to Charles Collins. Long after the
+      alleged<br /> occurrence Gilbert Vale, one of the biographers of<br />
+      Paine, had a conversation with Collins concerning<br /> Mary Hinsdale. Vale
+      asked him what he thought<br /> of her. He replied that some of the Friends
+      be-<br /> lieved that she used opiates, and that they did not<br /> give
+      credit to her statements. He also said that he<br /> believed what the
+      Friends said, but thought that<br /> when a young woman, she might have
+      told the<br /> truth.<br /> <br /> In 1818 William Cobbett came to New York.<br />
+      He began collecting materials for a life of Thomas<br /> Paine. In this he
+      became acquainted with Mary<br /> Hinsdale and Charles Collins. Mr. Cobbett
+      gave a<br /> <br /> 470<br /> <br /> full account of what happened in a letter
+      addressed<br /> to the Norwich Mercury in 1819. From this ac-<br /> count it
+      seems that Charles Collins told Cobbett that<br /> Paine had recanted.
+      Cobbett called for the testi-<br /> mony, and told Mr. Collins that he must
+      give time,<br /> place, and the circumstances. He finally brought a<br />
+      statement that he stated had been made by Mary<br /> Hinsdale. Armed with
+      this document Cobbett, in<br /> October of that year, called upon the said
+      Mary<br /> Hinsdale, at No. 10 Anthony street, New York, and<br /> showed
+      her the statement. Upon being questioned<br /> by Mr. Cobbett she said,
+      "That it was so long ago<br /> that she could not speak positively to any
+      part of the<br /> matter&mdash;that she would not say that any part of the<br />
+      paper was true&mdash;that she had never seen the paper<br /> &mdash;and
+      that she had never given Charles Collins<br /> authority to say anything
+      about the matter in her<br /> name." And so in the month of October, in the<br />
+      year of grace 1818, in the mist and fog of forgetful-<br /> ness
+      disappeared forever one Mary Hinsdale&mdash;the<br /> last and only witness
+      against the intellectual honesty<br /> of Thomas Paine.<br /> <br /> <i>Did
+      Thomas Paine live the life of a drunken beast,<br /> and did he die a
+      drunken, cowardly and beastly death?</i><br /> <br /> Upon you rests the
+      burden of substantiating these<br /> infamous charges.<br /> <br /> 471<br />
+      <br /> You have, I suppose, produced the best evidence<br /> in your
+      possession, and that evidence I will now pro-<br /> ceed to examine. Your
+      first witness is Grant Thor-<br /> burn. He makes three charges against
+      Thomas<br /> Paine, 1st. That his wife obtained a divorce from<br /> him in
+      England for cruelty and neglect. 2d. That<br /> he was a defaulter and fled
+      from England to Amer-<br /> ica. 3d. That he was a drunkard.<br /> <br />
+      These three charges stand upon the same evidence<br /> &mdash;the word of
+      Grant Thorburn. If they are not all<br /> true Mr. Thorburn stands
+      impeached.<br /> <br /> The charge that Mrs. Paine obtained a divorce on<br />
+      account of the cruelty and neglect of her husband is<br /> utterly false.
+      There is no such record in the world,<br /> and never was. Paine and his
+      wife separated by<br /> mutual consent. Each respected the other. They<br />
+      remained friends. This charge is without any foun-<br /> dation in fact. I
+      challenge the Christian world to<br /> produce the record of this decree of
+      divorce. Accord-<br /> ing to Mr. Thorburn it was granted in England. In<br />
+      that country public records are kept of all such de-<br /> crees. Have the
+      kindness to produce this decree<br /> showing that it was given on account
+      of cruelty or<br /> admit that Mr. Thorburn was mistaken.<br /> <br /> Thomas
+      Paine was a just man. Although sepa-<br /> rated from his wife, he always
+      spoke of her with<br /> <br /> 472<br /> <br /> tenderness and respect, and
+      frequently sent her<br /> money without letting her know the source from<br />
+      whence it came. Was this the conduct of a drunken<br /> beast?<br /> <br />
+      The second charge, that Paine was a defaulter in<br /> England and fled to
+      America, is equally false. He<br /> did not flee from England. He came to
+      America,<br /> not as a fugitive, but as a free man. He came with<br /> a
+      letter of introduction signed by another Infidel,<br /> Benjamin Franklin.
+      He came as a soldier of Free-<br /> dom&mdash;an apostle of Liberty.<br />
+      <br /> In this second charge there is not one word of truth.<br /> <br /> He
+      held a small office in England. If he was a<br /> defaulter the records of
+      that country will show that<br /> fact.<br /> <br /> Mr. Thorburn, unless the
+      record can be produced<br /> to substantiate him, stands convicted of at
+      least two<br /> mistakes.<br /> <br /> Now, as to the third: He says that in
+      1802 Paine<br /> was an "old remnant of mortality, drunk, bloated<br /> and
+      half asleep."<br /> <br /> Can any one believe this to be a true account of<br />
+      the personal appearance of Mr. Paine in 1802? He<br /> had just returned
+      from France. He had been wel-<br /> comed home by Thomas Jefferson, who had
+      said that<br /> he was entitled to the hospitality of every American.<br />
+      <br /> 473<br /> <br /> In 1802 Mr. Paine was honored with a public din-<br />
+      ner in the city of New York. He was called upon<br /> and treated with
+      kindness and respect by such men<br /> as DeWitt Clinton.<br /> <br /> In
+      1806 Mr. Paine wrote a letter to Andrew A.<br /> Dean upon the subject of
+      religion. Read that letter<br /> and then say that the writer of it was an
+      "old rem-<br /> nant of mortality, drunk, bloated and half asleep."<br />
+      Search the files of the New York Observer from the<br /> first issue to the
+      last, and you will find nothing supe-<br /> rior to this letter.<br /> <br />
+      In 1803 Mr. Paine wrote a letter of considerable<br /> length, and of great
+      force, to his friend Samuel<br /> Adams. Such letters are not written by
+      drunken<br /> beasts, nor by remnants of old mortality, nor by<br />
+      drunkards. It was about the same time that he<br /> wrote his "Remarks on
+      Robert Hall's Sermons."<br /> <br /> These "Remarks" were not written by a
+      drunken<br /> beast, but by a clear-headed and thoughtful man.<br /> <br />
+      In 1804 he published an essay on the invasion of<br /> England, and a
+      treatise on gunboats, full of valuable<br /> maritime information:&mdash;in
+      1805, a treatise on yellow<br /> fever, suggesting modes of prevention. In
+      short, he<br /> was an industrious and thoughtful man. He sympa-<br />
+      thized with the poor and oppressed of all lands. He<br /> looked upon
+      monarchy as a species of physical<br /> <br /> 474<br /> <br /> slavery. He
+      had the goodness to attack that form<br /> of government. He regarded the
+      religion of his day<br /> as a kind of mental slavery. He had the courage
+      to<br /> give his reasons for his opinion. His reasons filled<br /> the
+      churches with hatred. Instead of answering his<br /> arguments they
+      attacked him. Men who were not<br /> fit to blacken his shoes, blackened
+      his character.<br /> <br /> There is too much religious cant in the
+      statement<br /> of Mr. Thorburn. He exhibited too much anxiety<br /> to tell
+      what Grant Thorburn said to Thomas Paine.<br /> He names Thomas Jefferson
+      as one of the disreputa-<br /> ble men who welcomed Paine with open arms.
+      The<br /> testimony of a man who regarded Thomas Jefferson<br /> as a
+      disreputable person, as to the character of any-<br /> body, is utterly
+      without value. In my judgment, the<br /> testimony of Mr. Thorburn should
+      be thrown aside<br /> as wholly unworthy of belief.<br /> <br /> Your next
+      witness is the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.<br /> D., who tells what an elder in
+      his church said. This<br /> elder said that Paine passed his last days on
+      his farm<br /> at New Rochelle with a solitary female attendant.<br /> This
+      is not true. He did not pass his last days at<br /> New Rochelle.
+      Consequently this pious elder did<br /> not see him during his last days at
+      that place. Upon<br /> this elder we prove an alibi. Mr. Paine passed his<br />
+      last days in the city of New York, in a house upon<br /> <br /> 475<br />
+      <br /> Columbia street. The story of the Rev. J. D. Wick-<br /> ham, D.D.,
+      is simply false.<br /> <br /> The next competent false witness is the Rev.<br />
+      Charles Hawley, D.D., who proceeds to state that<br /> the story of the
+      Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.D., is cor-<br /> roborated by older citizens of New
+      Rochelle. The<br /> names of these ancient residents are withheld. Ac-<br />
+      cording to these unknown witnesses, the account<br /> given by the deceased
+      elder was entirely correct.<br /> But as the particulars of Mr. Paine's
+      conduct "were<br /> too loathsome to be described in print," we are left<br />
+      entirely in the dark as to what he really did.<br /> <br /> While at New
+      Rochelle Mr. Paine lived with Mr.<br /> Purdy&mdash;with Mr. Dean&mdash;with
+      Captain Pelton, and<br /> with Mr. Staple. It is worthy of note that all of<br />
+      these gentlemen give the lie direct to the statements<br /> of "older
+      residents" and ancient citizens spoken of<br /> by the Rev. Charles Hawley,
+      D.D., and leave him<br /> with his "loathsome particulars" existing only in
+      his<br /> own mind.<br /> <br /> The next gentleman you bring upon the stand
+      is<br /> W. H. Ladd, who quotes from the memoirs of<br /> Stephen Grellet.
+      This gentleman also has the mis-<br /> fortune to be dead. According to his
+      account, Mr.<br /> Paine made his recantation to a servant girl of his<br />
+      by the name of Mary Roscoe. To this girl, accord-<br /> <br /> 476<br />
+      <br /> ing to the account, Mr. Paine uttered the wish that<br /> all who
+      read his book had burned it. I believe there<br /> is a mistake in the name
+      of this girl. Her name was<br /> probably Mary Hinsdale, as it was once
+      claimed that<br /> Paine made the same remark to her, but this point<br /> I
+      shall notice hereafter. These are your witnesses,<br /> and the only ones
+      you bring forward, to support<br /> your charge that Thomas Paine lived a
+      drunken and<br /> beastly life and died a drunken, cowardly and beastly<br />
+      death. All these calumnies are found in a life of<br /> Paine by a Mr.
+      Cheetham, the convicted libeler<br /> already referred to. Mr. Cheetham was
+      an enemy<br /> of the man whose life he pretended to write.<br /> <br /> In
+      order to show you the estimation in which Mr.<br /> Cheetham was held by
+      Mr. Paine, I will give you a<br /> copy of a letter that throws light upon
+      this point:<br /> <br /> October 28, 1807.<br /> <br /> "Mr. Cheetham: Unless
+      you make a public apol-<br /> ogy for the abuse and falsehood in your paper
+      of<br /> Tuesday, October 27th, respecting me, I will prose-<br /> cute you
+      for lying."<br /> <br /> Thomas Paine.<br /> <br /> In another letter,
+      speaking of this same man, Mr.<br /> Paine says: "If an unprincipled bully
+      cannot be re-<br /> formed, he can be punished." "Cheetham has been<br /> so
+      long in the habit of giving false information, that<br /> truth is to him
+      like a foreign language."<br /> <br /> 477<br /> <br /> Mr. Cheetham wrote the
+      life of Paine to gratify<br /> his malice and to support religion. He was
+      prose-<br /> cuted for libel&mdash;was convicted and fined.<br /> <br /> Yet
+      the life of Paine written by this man is referred<br /> to by the Christian
+      world as the highest authority.<br /> <br /> As to the personal habits of
+      Mr. Paine, we have<br /> the testimony of William Carver, with whom he<br />
+      lived; of Mr. Jarvis, the artist, with whom he lived;<br /> of Mr. Staple,
+      with whom he lived; of Mr. Purdy,<br /> who was a tenant of Paine's; of Mr.
+      Burger, with<br /> whom he was intimate; of Thomas Nixon and<br /> Captain
+      Daniel Pelton, both of whom knew him<br /> well; of Amasa Woodsworth, who
+      was with him<br /> when he died; of John Fellows, who boarded at the<br />
+      same house; of James Wilburn, with whom he<br /> boarded; of B. F. Haskin,
+      a lawyer, who was well<br /> acquainted with him and called upon him during
+      his<br /> last illness; of Walter Morton, a friend; of Clio<br /> Rickman,
+      who had known him for many years; of<br /> Willet and Elias Hicks, Quakers,
+      who knew him in-<br /> timately and well; of Judge Herttell, H. Margary,<br />
+      Elihu Palmer, and many others. All these testified<br /> to the fact that
+      Mr. Paine was a temperate man. In<br /> those days nearly everybody used
+      spirituous liquors.<br /> Paine was not an exception; but he did not drink
+      to<br /> excess. Mr. Lovett, who kept the City Hotel where<br /> <br /> 478<br />
+      <br /> Paine stopped, in a note to Caleb Bingham, declared<br /> that Paine
+      drank less than any boarder he had.<br /> <br /> Against all this evidence
+      you produce the story of<br /> Grant Thorburn&mdash;the story of the Rev.
+      J. D. Wick-<br /> ham that an elder in his church told him that Paine<br />
+      was a drunkard, corroborated by the Rev. Charles<br /> Hawley, and an
+      extract from Lossing's history to<br /> the same effect. The evidence is
+      overwhelmingly<br /> against you. Will you have the fairness to admit it?<br />
+      Your witnesses are merely the repeaters of the false-<br /> hoods of James
+      Cheetham, the convicted libeler.<br /> <br /> After all, drinking is not as
+      bad as lying. An<br /> honest drunkard is better than a calumniator of the<br />
+      dead. "A remnant of old mortality, drunk, bloated<br /> and half asleep" is
+      better than a perfectly sober<br /> defender of human slavery.<br /> <br />
+      To become drunk is a virtue compared with steal-<br /> ing a babe from the
+      breast of its mother.<br /> <br /> Drunkenness is one of the beatitudes,
+      compared<br /> with editing a religious paper devoted to the defence<br />
+      of slavery upon the ground that it is a divine insti-<br /> tution.<br />
+      <br /> Do you really think that Paine was a drunken<br /> beast when he
+      wrote "Common Sense"&mdash;a pamphlet<br /> that aroused three millions of
+      people, as people were<br /> never aroused by a pamphlet before? Was he a<br />
+      <br /> 479<br /> <br /> drunken beast when he wrote the "Crisis"? Was<br /> it
+      to a drunken beast that the following letter was<br /> addressed:<br />
+      <br /> Rocky Hill, September 10, 1783.<br /> <br /> "I have learned since I
+      have been at this place,<br /> that you are at Bordentown.&mdash;Whether
+      for the sake<br /> of retirement or economy I know not. Be it for<br />
+      either or both, or whatever it may, if you will come<br /> to this place
+      and partake with me I shall be exceed-<br /> ingly happy to see you at it.
+      Your presence may<br /> remind Congress of your past services to this
+      country;<br /> and if it is in my power to impress them, command<br /> my
+      best exertions with freedom, as they will be<br /> rendered cheerfully by
+      one who entertains a lively<br /> sense of the importance of your works,
+      and who with<br /> much pleasure subscribes himself,<br /> <br /> "Your
+      Sincere Friend,<br /> <br /> "George Washington."<br /> <br /> Did any of your
+      ancestors ever receive a letter<br /> like that?<br /> <br /> Do you think
+      that Paine was a drunken beast<br /> when the following letter was received
+      by him?<br /> <br /> "You express a wish in your letter to return to<br />
+      America in a national ship; Mr. Dawson, who brings<br /> over the treaty,
+      and who will present you with this<br /> letter, is charged with orders to
+      the captain of the<br /> <br /> 480<br /> <br /> Maryland to receive and
+      accommodate you back, if you<br /> can be ready to depart at such a short
+      warning. You<br /> will in general find us returned to sentiments worthy<br />
+      of former times; <i>in these it will be your glory to have<br /> steadily
+      labored and with as much effect as any man<br /> living.</i> That you may
+      live long to continue your<br /> useful labors, and reap the reward in the
+      <i>thankfulness<br /> of nations</i>, is my sincere prayer. Accept the
+      assur-<br /> ances of my high esteem and affectionate attachment."<br />
+      <br /> Thomas Jefferson.<br /> <br /> Did any of your ancestors ever receive
+      a letter<br /> like that?<br /> <br /> "It has been very generally propagated
+      through<br /> the continent that I wrote the pamphlet 'Common<br /> Sense.'
+      I could not have written anything in so<br /> manly and striking a style."&mdash;John
+      Adams.<br /> <br /> "A few more such flaming arguments as were<br />
+      exhibited at Falmouth and Norfolk, added to the<br /> sound doctrine and
+      unanswerable reasoning con-<br /> tained in the pamphlet 'Common Sense,'
+      will not<br /> leave numbers at a loss to decide on the propriety of<br /> a
+      separation."&mdash;George Washington.<br /> <br /> "It is not necessary for
+      me to tell you how<br /> much all your countrymen&mdash;I speak of the
+      great<br /> mass of the people&mdash;are interested in your welfare.<br />
+      <br /> 481<br /> <br /> They have not forgotten the history of their own<br />
+      Revolution and the difficult scenes through which<br /> they passed; nor do
+      they review its several stages<br /> without reviving in their bosoms a due
+      sensibility of<br /> the merits of those who served them in that great<br />
+      and arduous conflict. The crime of ingratitude has<br /> not yet stained,
+      and I trust never will stain, our<br /> national character. You are
+      considered by them as<br /> not only having rendered important services in
+      our<br /> own Revolution, but as being on a more extensive<br /> scale the
+      friend of human rights, and a distinguished<br /> and able defender of
+      public liberty. To the welfare<br /> of Thomas Paine the Americans are not,
+      nor can<br /> they be indifferent.".. James Monroe.<br /> <br /> Did any of
+      your ancestors ever receive a letter<br /> like that?<br /> <br /> "No writer
+      has exceeded Paine in ease and famil-<br /> iarity of style, in perspicuity
+      of expression, happiness<br /> of elucidation, and in simple and unassuming
+      lan-<br /> guage."'&mdash;Thomas Jefferson.<br /> <br /> Was ever a letter
+      like that written about an editor<br /> of the <i>New York Observer?</i><br />
+      <br /> Was it in consideration of the services of a<br /> drunken beast that
+      the Legislature of Pennsylvania<br /> presented Thomas Paine with five
+      hundred pounds<br /> sterling?<br /> <br /> 482<br /> <br /> Did the State of
+      New York feel indebted to a<br /> drunken beast, and confer upon Thomas
+      Paine an<br /> estate of several hundred acres?<br /> <br /> "I believe in
+      the equality of man, and I believe<br /> that religious duties consist in
+      doing justice, loving<br /> mercy, and endeavoring to make our
+      fellow-creat-<br /> ures happy."<br /> <br /> "My own mind is my own church."<br />
+      <br /> "It is necessary to the happiness of man that he<br /> be mentally
+      faithful to himself."<br /> <br /> "Any system of religion that shocks the
+      mind of<br /> a child cannot be a true system."<br /> <br /> "The Word of God
+      is the creation which we<br /> behold."<br /> <br /> "The age of ignorance
+      commenced with the<br /> Christian system."<br /> <br /> "It is with a pious
+      fraud as with a bad action&mdash;it<br /> begets a calamitous necessity of
+      going on."<br /> <br /> "To read the Bible without horror, we must undo<br />
+      everything that is tender, sympathizing and benev-<br /> olent in the heart
+      of man."<br /> <br /> "The man does not exist who can say I have per-<br />
+      secuted him, or that I have in any case returned evil<br /> for evil."<br />
+      <br /> "Of all tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in<br /> religion is
+      the worst."<br /> <br /> 483<br /> <br /> "My own opinion is, that those whose
+      lives have<br /> been spent in doing good and endeavoring to make<br />
+      their fellow-mortals happy, will be happy hereafter."<br /> "The belief in
+      a cruel god makes a cruel man."<br /> "The intellectual part of religion is
+      a private affair<br /> between every man and his Maker, and in which no<br />
+      third party has any right to interfere. The practical<br /> part consists
+      in our doing good to each other."<br /> <br /> "No man ought to make a
+      living by religion. One<br /> person cannot act religion for another&mdash;every
+      person<br /> must perform it for himself."<br /> <br /> "One good
+      schoolmaster is of more use than a<br /> hundred priests."<br /> <br /> "Let
+      us propagate morality unfettered by super-<br /> stition."<br /> <br /> "God
+      is the power, or first cause, Nature is the<br /> law, and matter is the
+      subject acted upon."<br /> <br /> "I believe in one God and no more, and I
+      hope<br /> for happiness beyond this life."<br /> <br /> "The key of heaven
+      is not in the keeping of any<br /> sect nor ought the road to it to be
+      obstructed<br /> by any."<br /> <br /> "My religion, and the whole of it, is
+      the fear and<br /> love of the Deity and universal philanthropy."<br />
+      <br /> "I have yet, I believe, some years in store, for I<br /> have a good
+      state of health and a happy mind. I<br /> <br /> 484<br /> <br /> take care of
+      both, by nourishing the first with tem-<br /> perance and the latter with
+      abundance."<br /> <br /> "He lives immured within the Bastile of a<br />
+      word."<br /> <br /> How perfectly that sentence describes you! The<br />
+      Bastile in which you are immured is the word<br /> "Calvinism."<br /> <br />
+      "Man has no property in man."<br /> <br /> What a splendid motto that would
+      have made for<br /> the <i>New York Observer</i> in the olden time!<br />
+      <br /> "The world is my country; to do good, my<br /> religion."<br /> <br />
+      I ask you again whether these splendid utterances<br /> came from the lips
+      of a drunken beast?<br /> <br /> <br /> <i>Did Thomas Paine die in
+      destitution and want?</i><br /> <br /> The charge has been made, over and
+      over again,<br /> that Thomas Paine died in want and destitution&mdash;<br />
+      that he was an abandoned pauper&mdash;an outcast with-<br /> out friends
+      and without money. This charge is just<br /> as false as the rest.<br />
+      <br /> Upon his return to this country in 1802, he was<br /> worth $30,000,
+      according to his own statement made<br /> at that time in the following
+      letter addressed to Clio<br /> Rickman:<br /> <br /> "My Dear Friend: Mr.
+      Monroe, who is appointed<br /> minister extraordinary to France, takes
+      charge of<br /> <br /> 485<br /> <br /> this, to be delivered to Mr. Este,
+      banker in Paris, to<br /> be forwarded to you.<br /> <br /> "I arrived at
+      Baltimore the 30th of October, and<br /> you can have no idea of the
+      agitation which my<br /> arrival occasioned. From New Hampshire to<br />
+      Georgia (an extent of 1,500 miles) every newspaper<br /> was filled with
+      applause or abuse.<br /> <br /> "My property in this country has been taken
+      care<br /> of by my friends, and is now worth six thousand<br /> pounds
+      sterling; which put in the funds will bring<br /> me &pound;400 sterling a
+      year.<br /> <br /> "Remember me in affection and friendship to your<br />
+      wife and family, and in the circle of your friends."<br /> <br /> Thomas
+      Paine.<br /> <br /> A man in those days worth thirty thousand dol-<br /> lars
+      was not a pauper. That amount would bring an<br /> income of at least two
+      thousand dollars per annum.<br /> Two thousand dollars then would be fully
+      equal to<br /> five thousand dollars now.<br /> <br /> On the 12th of July,
+      1809, the year in which he<br /> died, Mr. Paine made his will. From this
+      instru-<br /> ment we learn that he was the owner of a valuable<br /> farm
+      within twenty miles of New York. He also<br /> was the owner of thirty
+      shares in the New York<br /> Phoenix Insurance Company, worth upwards of
+      fif-<br /> teen hundred dollars. Besides this, some personal<br /> <br /> 486<br />
+      <br /> property and ready money. By his will he gave to<br /> Walter Morton,
+      and Thomas Addis Emmett, brother<br /> of Robert Emmett, two hundred
+      dollars each, and<br /> one hundred to the widow of Elihu Palmer.<br />
+      <br /> Is it possible that this will was made by a pauper<br /> &mdash;by a
+      destitute outcast&mdash;by a man who suffered for<br /> the ordinary
+      necessaries of life?<br /> <br /> But suppose, for the sake of the argument,
+      that he<br /> was poor and that he died a beggar, does that tend<br /> to
+      show that the Bible is an inspired book and that<br /> Calvin did not burn
+      Servetus? Do you really regard<br /> poverty as a crime? If Paine had died
+      a millionaire,<br /> would you have accepted his religious opinions? If<br />
+      Paine had drank nothing but cold water would you<br /> have repudiated the
+      five cardinal points of Calvin-<br /> ism? Does an argument depend for its
+      force upon<br /> the pecuniary condition of the person making it?<br /> As a
+      matter of fact, most reformers&mdash;most men and<br /> women of genius,
+      have been acquainted with poverty.<br /> Beneath a covering of rags have
+      been found some of<br /> the tenderest and bravest hearts.<br /> <br /> Owing
+      to the attitude of the churches for the last<br /> fifteen hundred years,
+      truth-telling has not been a<br /> very lucrative business. As a rule,
+      hypocrisy has<br /> worn the robes, and honesty the rags. That day is<br />
+      passing away. You cannot now answer the argu-<br /> <br /> 487<br /> <br />
+      ments of a man by pointing at holes in his coat.<br /> Thomas Paine
+      attacked the church when it was<br /> powerful&mdash;when it had what was
+      called honors to<br /> bestow&mdash;when it was the keeper of the public
+      con-<br /> science&mdash;when it was strong and cruel. The church<br />
+      waited till he was dead then attacked his reputation<br /> and his clothes.<br />
+      <br /> Once upon a time a donkey kicked a lion. The<br /> lion was dead.<br />
+      <br /> Conclusion.<br /> <br /> From the persistence with which the orthodox<br />
+      have charged for the last sixty-eight years that<br /> Thomas Paine
+      recanted, and that when dying he<br /> was filled with remorse and fear;
+      from the malignity<br /> of the attacks upon his personal character, I had
+      con-<br /> cluded that there must be some evidence of some<br /> kind to
+      support these charges. Even with my ideas<br /> of the average honor of
+      believers in superstition&mdash;<br /> the disciples of fear&mdash;I did
+      not quite believe that all<br /> these infamies rested solely upon poorly
+      attested<br /> lies. I had charity enough to suppose that some-<br /> thing
+      had been said or done by Thomas Paine capa-<br /> ble of being tortured
+      into a foundation for these<br /> calumnies. And I was foolish enough to
+      think that<br /> even you would be willing to fairly examine the pre-<br />
+      tended evidence said to sustain these charges, and<br /> <br /> 488<br />
+      <br /> give your honest conclusion to the world. I sup-<br /> posed that
+      you, being acquainted with the history of<br /> your country, felt under a
+      certain obligation to<br /> Thomas Paine for the splendid services rendered
+      by<br /> him in the darkest days of the Revolution. It was<br /> only
+      reasonable to suppose that you were aware that<br /> in the midnight of
+      Valley Forge the "Crisis," by<br /> Thomas Paine, was the first star that
+      glittered in the<br /> wide horizon of despair. I took it for granted that<br />
+      you knew of the bold stand taken and the brave<br /> words spoken by Thomas
+      Paine, in the French Con-<br /> vention, against the death of the king. I
+      thought it<br /> probable that you, being an editor, had read the<br />
+      "Rights of Man;" that you knew that Thomas<br /> Paine was a champion of
+      human liberty; that he was<br /> one of the founders and fathers of this
+      Republic; that<br /> he was one of the foremost men of his age; that he<br />
+      had never written a word in favor of injustice; that<br /> he was a
+      despiser of slavery; that he abhorred tyr-<br /> anny in all its forms;
+      that he was in the widest and<br /> highest sense a friend of his race;
+      that his head was<br /> as clear as his heart was good, and that he had the<br />
+      courage to speak his honest thought. Under these<br /> circumstances I had
+      hoped that you would for the<br /> moment forget your religious prejudices
+      and submit<br /> to the enlightened judgment of the world the evi-<br />
+      <br /> 489<br /> <br /> dence you had, or could obtain, affecting in any way<br />
+      the character of so great and so generous a man. This<br /> you have
+      refused to do. In my judgment, you have<br /> mistaken the temper of even
+      your own readers. A<br /> large majority of the religious people of this
+      country<br /> have, to a considerable extent, outgrown the preju-<br />
+      dices of their fathers. They are willing to know the<br /> truth and the
+      whole truth, about the life and death of<br /> Thomas Paine. They will not
+      thank you for having<br /> presented them the moss-covered, the maimed and
+      dis-<br /> torted traditions of ignorance, prejudice, and credulity.<br />
+      By this course you will convince them not of the<br /> wickedness of Paine,
+      but of your own unfairness.<br /> <br /> What crime had Thomas Paine
+      committed that he<br /> should have feared to die? The only answer you<br />
+      can give is, that he denied the inspiration of the<br /> Scriptures. If
+      this is a crime, the civilized world is<br /> filled with criminals. The
+      pioneers of human thought<br /> &mdash;the intellectual leaders of the
+      world&mdash;the foremost<br /> men in every science&mdash;the kings of
+      literature and<br /> art&mdash;those who stand in the front rank of
+      investiga-<br /> tion&mdash;the men who are civilizing, elevating,
+      instruct-<br /> ing, and refining mankind, are to-day unbelievers in<br />
+      the dogma of inspiration. Upon this question, the<br /> intellect of
+      Christendom agrees with the conclusions<br /> reached by the genius of
+      Thomas Paine. Centuries<br /> <br /> 490<br /> <br /> ago a noise was made for
+      the purpose of frightening<br /> mankind. Orthodoxy is the echo of that
+      noise.<br /> <br /> The man who now regards the Old Testament as<br /> in any
+      sense a sacred or inspired book is, in my judg-<br /> ment, an intellectual
+      and moral deformity. There is<br /> in it so much that is cruel, ignorant,
+      and ferocious<br /> that it is to me a matter of amazement that it was<br />
+      ever thought to be the work of a most merciful deity.<br /> <br /> Upon the
+      question of inspiration Thomas Paine<br /> gave his honest opinion. Can it
+      be that to give an<br /> honest opinion causes one to die in terror and de-<br />
+      spair? Have you in your writings been actuated by<br /> the fear of such a
+      consequence? Why should it be<br /> taken for granted that Thomas Paine,
+      who devoted<br /> his life to the sacred cause of freedom, should have<br />
+      been hissed at in the hour of death by the snakes of<br /> conscience,
+      while editors of Presbyterian papers who<br /> defended slavery as a divine
+      institution, and cheer-<br /> fully justified the stealing of babes from
+      the breasts of<br /> mothers, are supposed to have passed smilingly from<br />
+      earth to the embraces of angels? Why should you<br /> think that the heroic
+      author of the "Rights of Man"<br /> should shudderingly dread to leave this
+      "bank and<br /> shoal of time," while Calvin, dripping with the blood<br />
+      of Servetus, was anxious to be judged of God? Is<br /> it possible that the
+      persecutors&mdash;the instigators of<br /> <br /> 491<br /> <br /> the
+      massacre of St. Bartholomew&mdash;the inventors and<br /> users of
+      thumb-screws, and iron boots, and racks&mdash;<br /> the burners and
+      tearers of human flesh&mdash;the stealers,<br /> whippers and enslavers of
+      men&mdash;the buyers and<br /> beaters of babes and mothers&mdash;the
+      founders of<br /> inquisitions&mdash;the makers of chains, the builders of<br />
+      dungeons, the slanderers of the living and the calum-<br /> niators of the
+      dead, all died in the odor of sanctity,<br /> with white, forgiven hands
+      folded upon the breasts<br /> of peace, while the destroyers of prejudice&mdash;the<br />
+      apostles of humanity&mdash;the soldiers of liberty&mdash;the<br /> breakers
+      of fetters&mdash;the creators of light&mdash;died sur-<br /> rounded with
+      the fierce fiends of fear?<br /> <br /> In your attempt to destroy the
+      character of Thomas<br /> Paine you have failed, and have succeeded only in<br />
+      leaving a stain upon your own. You have written<br /> words as cruel,
+      bitter and heartless as the creed of<br /> Calvin. Hereafter you will stand
+      in the pillory of<br /> history as a defamer&mdash;a calumniator of the
+      dead.<br /> You will be known as the man who said that Thomas<br /> Paine,
+      the "Author Hero," lived a drunken, coward-<br /> ly and beastly life, and
+      died a drunken and beastly<br /> death. These infamous words will be
+      branded upon<br /> the forehead of your reputation. They will be re-<br />
+      membered against you when all else you may have<br /> uttered shall have
+      passed from the memory of men.<br /> <br /> Robert G. Ingersoll.<br /> <br />
+      <br /> <br /> <a name="link0012" id="link0012"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>THE
+      OBSERVER'S SECOND ATTACK</b></big><br /> <br /> <i>* From the NY. Observer
+      of Nov. 1, 1877.</i><br /> <br /> <br /> TOM PAINE AGAIN.<br /> <br /> In the
+      Observer of September 27th, in response<br /> to numerous calls from
+      different parts of the country<br /> for information, and in fulfillment of
+      a promise, we<br /> presented a mass of testimony, chiefly from persons<br />
+      with whom we had been personally acquainted,<br /> establishing the truth
+      of our assertions in regard to<br /> the dissolute life and miserable end
+      of Paine. It was<br /> not a pleasing subject for discussion, and an
+      apology,<br /> or at least an explanation, is due to our readers for<br />
+      resuming it, and for occupying so much space, or<br /> any space, in
+      exhibiting the truth and the proofs in<br /> regard to the character of a
+      man who had become so<br /> debased by his intemperance, and so vile in his<br />
+      habits, as to be excluded, for many years before and<br /> up to the time
+      of his death, from all decent society.<br /> <br /> Our reasons for taking
+      up the subject at all, and<br /> for presenting at this time so much
+      additional testi-<br /> mony in regard to the facts of the case, are these:<br />
+      At different periods for the last fifty years, efforts<br /> <br /> 493<br />
+      <br /> have been made by Infidels to revive and honor the<br /> memory of
+      one whose friends would honor him most<br /> by suffering his name to sink
+      into oblivion, if that<br /> were possible. About two years since, Rev. O.
+      B.<br /> Frothingham, of this city, came to their aid, and<br /> undertook a
+      sort of championship of Paine, making<br /> in a public discourse this
+      statement: "No private<br /> character has been more foully calumniated in
+      the<br /> name of God than that of Thomas Paine." (Mr.<br /> Frothingham, it
+      will be remembered, is the one who<br /> recently, in a public discourse,
+      announced the down-<br /> fall of Christianity, although he very kindly
+      made<br /> the allowance that, "it may be a thousand years<br /> before its
+      decay will be visible to all eyes." It is<br /> our private opinion that it
+      will be at least a thousand<br /> and one.) Rev. John W. Chadwick, a
+      minister of<br /> the same order of unbelief, who signs himself, "Min-<br />
+      ister of the Second Unitarian Society in Brooklyn,"<br /> has devoted two
+      discourses to the same end, eulogiz-<br /> ing Paine. In one of these,
+      which we have before<br /> us in a handsomely printed pamphlet, entitled,<br />
+      "Method and Value of his (Paine's) Religious<br /> Teachings," he says:
+      "Christian usage has determ-<br /> ined that an Infidel means one who does
+      not believe<br /> in Christianity as a supernatural religion; in the<br />
+      Bible as a Supernatural book; in Jesus as a super-<br /> <br /> 494<br />
+      <br /> natural person. And in this sense Paine was an<br /> Infidel, and so,
+      thank God, am I." It is proper to<br /> add that Unitarians generally
+      decline all responsibil-<br /> ity for the utterances of both of these men,
+      and that<br /> they compose a denomination, or rather two denom-<br />
+      inations, of their own.<br /> <br /> There is also a certain class of
+      Infidels who are<br /> not quite prepared to meet the odium that attaches<br />
+      to the name; they call themselves Christians, but<br /> their sympathies
+      are all with the enemies of Chris-<br /> tianity, and they are not always
+      able to conceal it.<br /> They have not the courage of their opinions, like<br />
+      Mr. Frothingham and Mr. Chadwick, and they work<br /> only sideways toward
+      the same end. We have been<br /> no little amused since our last article on
+      this subject<br /> appeared, to read some of the articles that have been<br />
+      written on the other side, though professedly on no<br /> side, and to
+      observe how sincerely these men depre-<br /> cate the discussion of the
+      character of Paine, as an<br /> unprofitable topic. It never appeared to
+      them un-<br /> profitable when the discussion was on the other side.<br />
+      <br /> Then, too, we have for months past been receiving<br /> letters from
+      different parts of the country, asking<br /> authentic information on the
+      subject and stating that<br /> the followers of Paine are making
+      extraordinary<br /> efforts to circulate his writings against the Christian<br />
+      <br /> 495<br /> <br /> religion, and in order to give currency to these
+      writ-<br /> ings they are endeavoring to rescue his name from<br /> the
+      disgrace into which it sank during the latter<br /> years of his life.
+      Paine spent several of his last<br /> years in furnishing a commentary upon
+      his Infidel<br /> principles. This commentary was contained in his<br />
+      besotted, degraded life and miserable end, but his<br /> friends do not
+      wish the commentary to go out in<br /> connection with his writings. They
+      prefer to have<br /> them read without the comments by their author.<br />
+      Hence this anxiety to free the great apostle of<br /> Infidelity from the
+      obloquy which his life brought<br /> upon his name; to represent him as a
+      pure, noble,<br /> virtuous man, and to make it appear that he died a<br />
+      peaceful, happy death, just like a philosopher.<br /> <br /> But what makes
+      the publication of the facts in the<br /> case still more imperative at
+      this time is the whole-<br /> sale accusation brought against the Christian
+      public<br /> by the friends and admirers of Paine. Christian<br /> ministers
+      as a class, and Christian journals are<br /> expressly accused of
+      falsifying history, of defaming<br /> "the mighty dead!" (meaning Paine,)
+      etc. In<br /> the face of all these accusations it cannot be out of<br />
+      place to state the facts and to fortify the statement<br /> by satisfactory
+      evidence, as we are abundantly able<br /> to do.<br /> <br /> 496<br /> <br />
+      The two points on which we proposed to produce<br /> the testimony are, the
+      character of Paine's life (refer-<br /> ring of course to his last
+      residence in this country,<br /> for no one has intimated that he had sunk
+      into such<br /> besotted drunkenness until about the time of his<br />
+      return to the United States in 1802), and the real<br /> character of his
+      death as consistent with such a life,<br /> and as marked further by the
+      cowardliness, which<br /> has been often exhibited by Infidels in the same<br />
+      circumstances.<br /> <br /> It is nothing at all to the purpose to show, as
+      his<br /> friends are fond of doing, that Paine rendered<br /> important
+      service to the cause of American Inde-<br /> pendence. This is not the
+      point under discussion<br /> and is not denied. No one ever called in
+      question<br /> the valuable service that Benedict Arnold rendered<br /> to
+      the country in the early part of the Revolutionary<br /> war; but this,
+      with true Americans, does not suffice<br /> to cast a shade of loveliness
+      or even to spread a man-<br /> tle of charity over his subsequent career.
+      Whatever<br /> share Paine had in the personal friendship of the<br />
+      fathers of the Revolution he forfeited by his subse-<br /> quent life of
+      beastly drunkenness and degradation,<br /> and on this account as well as
+      on account of his<br /> blasphemy he was shunned by all decent people.<br />
+      <br /> We wish to make one or two corrections of mis-<br /> <br /> 497<br />
+      <br /> statements by Paine's advocates, on which a vast<br /> amount of
+      argument has been simply wasted. We<br /> have never stated in any form,
+      nor have we ever<br /> supposed, that Paine actually renounced his Infidel-<br />
+      ity. The accounts agree in stating that he died a<br /> blaspheming
+      Infidel, and his horrible death we regard<br /> as one of the fruits, the
+      fitting complement of his<br /> Infidelity. We have never seen anything
+      that<br /> encouraged the hope that he was not abandoned of<br /> God in his
+      last hours. But we have no doubt, on<br /> the other hand, that having
+      become a wreck in body<br /> and mind through his intemperance, abandoned
+      of<br /> God, deserted by his Infidel companions, and de-<br /> pendent upon
+      Christian charity for the attentions he<br /> received, miserable beyond
+      description in his condi-<br /> tion, and seeing nothing to hope for in the
+      future, he<br /> was afraid to die, and was ready to call upon God<br /> and
+      upon Christ for mercy, and ready perhaps in the<br /> next minute to
+      blaspheme. This is what we referred<br /> to in speaking of Paine's death
+      as cowardly. It is<br /> shown in the testimony we have produced, and still<br />
+      more fully in that which we now present. The most<br /> wicked men are
+      ready to call upon God in seasons<br /> of great peril, and sometimes ask
+      for Christian min-<br /> istrations when in extreme illness; but they are<br />
+      often ready on any alleviation of distress to turn to<br /> <br /> 498<br />
+      <br /> their wickedness again, in the expressive language<br /> of
+      Scripture, "as the sow that was washed to her<br /> wallowing in the mire."<br />
+      <br /> We have never stated or intimated, nor, so far as<br /> we are aware,
+      has any one of our correspondents<br /> stated, that Paine died in poverty.
+      It has been<br /> frequently and truthfully stated that Paine was de-<br />
+      pendent on Christian charity for the attentions he<br /> received in his
+      last days, and so he was. His Infidel<br /> companions forsook him and
+      Christian hearts and<br /> hands ministered to his wants, notwithstanding
+      the<br /> blasphemies of his death-bed.<br /> <br /> Nor has one of our
+      correspondents stated, as<br /> alleged, that Paine died at New Rochelle.
+      The<br /> Rev. Dr. Wickham, who was a resident of that place<br /> nearly
+      fifty years ago, and who was perfectly familiar<br /> with the facts of his
+      life, wrote that Paine spent "his<br /> latter days" on the farm presented
+      to him by<br /> the State of New York, which was strictly true,<br /> but
+      made no reference to it as the place of his<br /> death.<br /> <br /> Such
+      misrepresentations serve to show how much<br /> the advocates of Paine
+      admire "truth."<br /> <br /> With these explanations we produce further evi-<br />
+      dence in regard to the manner of Paine's life and the<br /> character of
+      his death, both of which we have already<br /> <br /> 499<br /> <br />
+      characterized in appropriate terms, as the following<br /> testimony will
+      show.<br /> <br /> In regard to Paine's "personal habits," even before<br />
+      his return to this country, and particularly his aver-<br /> sion to soap
+      and water, Elkana Watson, a gentleman<br /> of the highest social position,
+      who resided in France<br /> during a part of the Revolutionary war, and who<br />
+      was the personal friend of Washington, Franklin,<br /> and other patriots
+      of the period, makes some inci-<br /> dental statements in his "Men and
+      Times of the<br /> Revolution." Though eulogizing Paine's efforts in<br />
+      behalf of American Independence, he describes him<br /> as "coarse and
+      uncouth in his manners, loathsome<br /> in his appearance, and a disgusting
+      egotist." On<br /> Paine's arrival at Nantes, the Mayor and other dis-<br />
+      tinguished citizens called upon him to pay their<br /> respects to the
+      American patriot. Mr. Watson says:<br /> "He was soon rid of his
+      respectable visitors, who<br /> left the room with marks of astonishment
+      and dis-<br /> gust." Mr. W., after much entreaty, and only by<br />
+      promising him a bundle of newspapers to read while<br /> undergoing the
+      operation, succeeded in prevailing<br /> on Paine to "stew, for an hour, in
+      a hot bath." Mr.<br /> W. accompanied Paine to the bath, and "instructed<br />
+      the keeper, in French, (which Paine did not under-<br /> stand,) gradually
+      to increase the heat of the water<br /> <br /> 500<br /> <br /> until 'le
+      Monsieur serait bien bouille (until the gentle-<br /> man shall be well
+      boiled;) and adds that "he became<br /> so much absorbed in his reading
+      that he was nearly-<br /> parboiled before leaving the bath, much to his
+      im-<br /> provement and my satisfaction."<br /> <br /> William Carver has
+      been cited as a witness in be-<br /> half of Paine, and particularly as to
+      his "personal<br /> habits." In a letter to Paine, dated December 2,<br />
+      1776, he bears the following testimony:<br /> <br /> "A respectable
+      gentlemen from New Rochelle<br /> called to see me a few days back, and
+      said that<br /> everybody was tired of you there, and no one would<br />
+      undertake to board and lodge you. I thought this<br /> was the case, as I
+      found you at a tavern in a most<br /> miserable situation. You appeared as
+      if you had<br /> not been shaved for a fortnight, and as to a shirt, it<br />
+      could not be said that you had one on. It was only<br /> the remains of
+      one, and this, likewise, appeared not<br /> to have been off your back for
+      a fortnight, and was<br /> nearly the color of tanned leather; and you had
+      the<br /> most disagreeable smell possible; just like that of<br /> our poor
+      beggars in England. Do you remember the<br /> pains I took to clean you?
+      that I got a tub of warm<br /> water and soap and washed you from head to
+      foot, and<br /> this I had to do three times before I could get you<br />
+      clean." (And then follow more disgusting details.)<br /> <br /> 501<br />
+      <br /> "You say, also, that you found your own liquors<br /> during the time
+      you boarded with me; but you<br /> should have said, 'I found only a small
+      part of the<br /> liquor I drank during my stay with you; this part I<br />
+      purchased of John Fellows, which was a demijohn of<br /> brandy containing
+      four gallons, and this did not serve<br /> me three weeks.' This can be
+      proved, and I mean<br /> not to say anything that I cannot prove; for I
+      hold<br /> truth as a precious jewel. It is a well-known fact,<br /> that
+      you drank one quart of brandy per day, at my<br /> expense, during the
+      different times that you have<br /> boarded with me, the demijohn above
+      mentioned<br /> excepted, and the last fourteen weeks you were sick.<br />
+      Is not this a supply of liquor for dinner and supper?"<br /> This chosen
+      witness in behalf of Paine, closes his<br /> letter, which is full of
+      loathsome descriptions of<br /> Paine's manner of life, as follows:<br />
+      <br /> "Now, sir, I think I have drawn a complete por-<br /> trait of your
+      character; yet to enter upon every<br /> minutiae would be to give a
+      history of your life, and<br /> to develop the fallacious mask of hypocrisy
+      and de-<br /> ception under which you have acted in your political<br /> as
+      well as moral capacity of life."<br /> <br /> (Signed) "William Carver."<br />
+      <br /> Carver had the same opinion of Paine to his dying<br /> day. When an
+      old man, and an Infidel of the Paine<br /> <br /> 502<br /> <br /> type and
+      habits, he was visited by the Rev. E. F.<br /> Hatfield, D.D., of this
+      city, who writes to us of his<br /> interview with Carver, under date of
+      Sept. 27, 1877:<br /> "I conversed with him nearly an hour. I took<br />
+      special pains to learn from him all that I could about<br /> Paine, whose
+      landlord he had been for eighteen<br /> months. He spoke of him as a base
+      and shameless<br /> drunkard, utterly destitute of moral principle. His<br />
+      denunciations of the man were perfectly fearful, and<br /> fully confirmed,
+      in my apprehension, all that had been<br /> written of Paine's immorality
+      and repulsiveness."<br /> Cheetham's Life of Paine, which was published<br />
+      the year that he died, and which has passed through<br /> several editions
+      (we have three of them now before<br /> us) describes a man lost to all
+      moral sensibility and<br /> to all sense of decency, a habitual drunkard,
+      and it is<br /> simply incredible that a book should have appeared<br /> so
+      soon after the death of its subject and should have<br /> been so
+      frequently republished without being at once<br /> refuted, if the
+      testimony were not substantially true.<br /> Many years later, when it was
+      found necessary to<br /> bolster up the reputation of Paine, Cheetham's<br />
+      Memoirs were called a pack of lies. If only one-<br /> tenth part of what
+      he publishes circumstantially in<br /> his volume, as facts in regard to
+      Paine, were true, all<br /> that has been written against him in later
+      years does<br /> <br /> 503<br /> <br /> not begin to set forth the degraded
+      character of the<br /> man's life. And with all that has been written on<br />
+      the subject we see no good reason to doubt the sub-<br /> stantial accuracy
+      of Cheetham's portrait of the man<br /> whom he knew so well.<br /> <br />
+      Dr. J. W. Francis, well-known as an eminent phy-<br /> sician, of this
+      city, in his Reminiscences of New York,<br /> says of Paine:<br /> <br /> "He
+      who, in his early days, had been associated<br /> with, and had received
+      counsel from Franklin, was,<br /> in his old age, deserted by the humblest
+      menial; he,<br /> whose pen has proved a very sword among nations,<br /> had
+      shaken empires, and made kings tremble, now<br /> yielded up the mastery to
+      the most treacherous of<br /> tyrants, King Alcohol."<br /> <br /> The
+      physician who attended Paine during his last<br /> illness was Dr. James R.
+      Manley, a gentleman of the<br /> highest character. A letter of his,
+      written in Octo-<br /> ber of the year that Paine died, fully corroborates<br />
+      the account of his state as recorded by Stephen<br /> Grellet in his
+      Memoirs, which we have already<br /> printed. He writes:<br /> <br /> "New
+      York, October 2, 1809: I was called upon<br /> by accident to visit Mr.
+      Paine, on the 25th of Feb-<br /> ruary last, and found him indisposed with
+      fever, and<br /> very apprehensive of an attack of apoplexy, as he<br />
+      <br /> 504<br /> <br /> stated that he had that disease before, and at this<br />
+      time felt a great degree of vertigo, and was unable<br /> to help himself
+      as he had hitherto done, on account<br /> of an intense pain above the
+      eyes. On inquiry of<br /> the attendants I was told that three or four days<br />
+      previously he had concluded to dispense with his<br /> usual quantity of
+      accustomed stimulus and that he<br /> had on that day resumed it. To the
+      want of his<br /> usual drink they attributed his illness, and it is highly<br />
+      probable that the usual quantity operating upon a<br /> state of system
+      more excited from the above priva-<br /> tions, was the cause of the
+      symptoms of which he<br /> then complained.... And here let me be per-<br />
+      mitted to observe (lest blame might attach to those<br /> whose business it
+      was to pay any particular attention<br /> to his cleanliness of person)
+      that it was absolutely<br /> impossible to effect that purpose. Cleanliness
+      ap-<br /> peared to make no part of his comfort; he seemed<br /> to have a
+      singular aversion to soap and water; he<br /> would never ask to be washed,
+      and when he was he<br /> would always make objections; and it was not un-<br />
+      usual to wash and to dress him clean very much<br /> against his
+      inclinations. In this deplorable state,<br /> with confirmed dropsy,
+      attended with frequent cough,<br /> vomiting and hiccough, he continued
+      growing from<br /> bad to worse till the morning of the 8th of June,<br />
+      <br /> 505<br /> <br /> when he died. Though I may remark that during<br />
+      the last three weeks of his life his situation was such<br /> that his
+      decease was confidently expected every day,<br /> his ulcers having assumed
+      a gangrenous appearance,<br /> being excessively fetid, and discolored
+      blisters hav-<br /> ing taken place on the soles of his feet without any<br />
+      ostensible cause, which baffled the usual attempts to<br /> arrest their
+      progress; and when we consider his<br /> former habits, his advanced age,
+      the feebleness of his<br /> constitution, his constant habit of using
+      ardent spirits<br /> ad libitum till the commencement of his last illness,<br />
+      so far from wondering that he died so soon, we are<br /> constrained to
+      ask, How did he live so long? Con-<br /> cerning his conduct during his
+      disease I have not<br /> much to remark, though the little I have may be<br />
+      somewhat interesting. Mr. Paine professed to be<br /> above the fear of
+      death, and a great part of his con-<br /> versation was principally
+      directed to give the impres-<br /> sion that he was perfectly willing to
+      leave this world,<br /> and yet some parts of his conduct were with
+      difficulty<br /> reconcilable with his belief. In the first stages of his<br />
+      illness he was satisfied to be left alone during the<br /> day, but he
+      required some person to be with him at<br /> night, urging as his reason
+      that he was afraid that<br /> he should die when unattended, and at this
+      period<br /> his deportment and his principle seemed to be con-<br /> <br />
+      506<br /> <br /> sistent; so much so that a stranger would judge from<br />
+      some of the remarks he would make that he was an<br /> Infidel. I recollect
+      being with him at night, watch-<br /> ing; he was very apprehensive of a
+      speedy dissolu-<br /> tion, and suffered great distress of body, and
+      perhaps<br /> of mind (for he was waiting the event of an applica-<br />
+      tion to the Society of Friends for permission that his<br /> corpse might
+      be deposited in their grave-ground, and<br /> had reason to believe that
+      the request might be<br /> refused), when he remarked in these words, 'I
+      think<br /> I can say what they made Jesus Christ to say&mdash;"My<br />
+      God, my God! why hast thou forsaken me?" He<br /> went on to observe on the
+      want of that respect which<br /> he conceived he merited, when I observed
+      to him<br /> that I thought his corpse should be matter of least<br />
+      concern to him; that those whom he would leave<br /> behind him would see
+      that he was properly interred,<br /> and, further, that it would be of
+      little consequence to<br /> me where I was deposited provided I was buried;<br />
+      upon which he answered that he had nothing else to<br /> talk about, and
+      that he would as lief talk of his death<br /> as of anything, but that he
+      was not so indifferent<br /> about his corpse as I appeared to be.<br />
+      <br /> "During the latter part of his life, though his con-<br /> versation
+      was equivocal, his conduct was singular;<br /> he could not be left alone
+      night or day; he not only<br /> <br /> 507<br /> <br /> required to have some
+      person with him, but he must<br /> see that he or she was there, and would
+      not allow<br /> his curtain to be closed at any time; and if, as it<br />
+      would sometimes unavoidably happen, he was left<br /> alone, he would
+      scream and halloo until some person<br /> came to him. When relief from
+      pain would admit,<br /> he seemed thoughtful and contemplative, his eyes<br />
+      being generally closed, and his hands folded upon<br /> his breast,
+      although he never slept without the assist-<br /> ance of an anodyne. There
+      was something remark-<br /> able in his conduct about this period (which
+      comprises<br /> about two weeks immediately preceding his death),<br />
+      particularly when we reflect that Thomas Paine was<br /> the author of the
+      'Age of Reason.' He would call<br /> out during his paroxysms of distress,
+      without inter-<br /> mission, 'O Lord help me! God help me! Jesus<br />
+      Christ help me! Lord help me!' etc., repeating the<br /> same expressions
+      without the least variation, in a<br /> tone of voice that would alarm the
+      house. It was<br /> this conduct which induced me to think that he had<br />
+      abandoned his former opinions, and I was more<br /> inclined to that belief
+      when I understood from his<br /> nurse (who is a very serious and, I
+      believe, pious<br /> woman), that he would occasionally inquire, when he<br />
+      saw her engaged with a book, what she was reading,<br /> and, being
+      answered, and at the same time asked<br /> <br /> 508<br /> <br /> whether she
+      should read aloud, he assented, and<br /> would appear to give particular
+      attention.<br /> <br /> "I took occasion during the nights of the fifth<br />
+      and sixth of June to test the strength of his opinions<br /> respecting
+      revelation. I purposely made him a very<br /> late visit; it was a time
+      which seemed to suit exactly<br /> with my errand; it was midnight, he was
+      in great<br /> distress, constantly exclaiming in the words above<br />
+      mentioned, when, after a considerable preface, I<br /> addressed him in the
+      following manner, the nurse<br /> being present: 'Mr. Paine, your opinions,
+      by a large<br /> portion of the community, have been treated with<br />
+      deference, you have never been in the habit of mix-<br /> ing in your
+      conversation words of coarse meaning;<br /> you have never indulged in the
+      practice of profane<br /> swearing; you must be sensible that we are ac-<br />
+      quainted with your religious opinions as they are<br /> given to the world.
+      What must we think of your<br /> present conduct? Why do you call upon
+      Jesus<br /> Christ to help you? Do you believe that he can<br /> help you?
+      Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus<br /> Christ? Come, now, answer me
+      honestly. I want<br /> an answer from the lips of a dying man, for I verily<br />
+      believe that you will not live twenty-four hours.' I<br /> waited some time
+      at the end of every question; he<br /> did not answer, but ceased to
+      exclaim in the above<br /> <br /> 509<br /> <br /> manner. Again I addressed
+      him; 'Mr. Paine, you<br /> have not answered my questions; will you answer<br />
+      them? Allow me to ask again, do you believe? or<br /> let me qualify the
+      question, do you wish to believe<br /> that Jesus Christ is the Son of
+      God?' After a pause<br /> of some minutes, he answered, 'I have no wish to<br />
+      believe on that subject.' I then left him, and knew<br /> not whether he
+      afterward spoke to any person on<br /> any subject, though he lived, as I
+      before observed,<br /> till the morning of the 8th. Such conduct, under<br />
+      usual circumstances, I conceive absolutely unaccount-<br /> able, though,
+      with diffidence, I would remark, not so<br /> much so in the present
+      instance; for though the first<br /> necessary and general result of
+      conviction be a sin-<br /> cere wish to atone for evil committed, yet it
+      may be<br /> a question worthy of able consideration whether<br /> excessive
+      pride of opinion, consummate vanity, and<br /> inordinate self-love might
+      not prevent or retard that<br /> otherwise natural consequence. For my own
+      part,<br /> I believe that had not Thomas Paine been such a<br />
+      distinguished Infidel he would have left less equivo-<br /> cal evidences
+      of a change of opinion. Concerning<br /> the persons who visited Mr. Paine
+      in his distress as<br /> his personal friends, I heard very little, though
+      I may<br /> observe that their number was small, and of that<br /> number
+      there were not wanting those who endeavor-<br /> <br /> 510<br /> <br /> ed to
+      support him in his deistical opinions, and to<br /> encourage him to 'die
+      like a man,' to 'hold fast his<br /> integrity,' lest Christians, or, as
+      they were pleased to<br /> term them, hypocrites, might take advantage of
+      his<br /> weakness, and furnish themselves with a weapon by<br /> which they
+      might hope to destroy their glorious sys-<br /> tem of morals. Numbers
+      visited him from motives<br /> of benevolence and Christian charity,
+      endeavoring to<br /> effect a change of mind in respect to his religious<br />
+      sentiments. The labor of such was apparently lost,<br /> and they pretty
+      generally received such treatment<br /> from him as none but good men would
+      risk a second<br /> time, though some of those persons called frequently."<br />
+      The following testimony will be new to most of<br /> our readers. It is
+      from a letter written by Bishop<br /> Fenwick (Roman Catholic Bishop of
+      Boston), con-<br /> taining a full account of a visit which he paid to<br />
+      Paine in his last illness. It was printed in the <i>United<br /> States
+      Catholic Magazine</i> for 1846; in the <i>Catholic<br /> Herald</i> of
+      Philadelphia, October 15, 1846; in a sup-<br /> plement to the <i>Hartford
+      Courant</i>, October 23, 1847;<br /> and in <i>Littell's Living Age</i> for
+      January 22, 1848,<br /> from which we copy. Bishop Fenwick writes:<br />
+      <br /> "A short time before Paine died I was sent for by<br /> him. He was
+      prompted to this by a poor Catholic<br /> woman who went to see him in his
+      sickness, and<br /> <br /> 511<br /> <br /> who told him, among other things,
+      that in his<br /> wretched condition if anybody could do him any<br /> good
+      it would be a Roman Catholic priest. This<br /> woman was an American
+      convert (formerly a Shak-<br /> ing Quakeress) whom I had received into the
+      church<br /> but a few weeks before. She was the bearer of this<br />
+      message to me from Paine. I stated this circum-<br /> stance to F.
+      Kohlmann, at breakfast, and requested<br /> him to accompany me. After some
+      solicitation on<br /> my part he agreed to do so? at which I was greatly<br />
+      rejoiced, because I was at the time quite young and<br /> inexperienced in
+      the ministry, and was glad to have<br /> his assistance, as I knew, from
+      the great reputation<br /> of Paine, that I should have to do with one of
+      the<br /> most impious as well as infamous of men. We<br /> shortly after
+      set out for the house at Greenwich<br /> where Paine lodged, and on the way
+      agreed on a<br /> mode of proceeding with him.<br /> <br /> "We arrived at
+      the house; a decent-looking elderly<br /> woman (probably his housekeeper,)
+      came to the<br /> door and inquired whether we were the Catholic<br />
+      priests, for said she, 'Mr. Paine has been so much<br /> annoyed of late by
+      other denominations calling upon<br /> him that he has left express orders
+      with me to admit<br /> no one to-day but the clergymen of the Catholic<br />
+      Church. Upon assuring her that we were Catholic<br /> <br /> 512<br /> <br />
+      clergymen she opened the door and showed us into<br /> the parlor. She then
+      left the room and shortly after<br /> returned to inform us that Paine was
+      asleep, and, at<br /> the same time, expressed a wish that we would not<br />
+      disturb him, 'for,' said she, 'he is always in a bad<br /> humor when
+      roused out of his sleep. It is better we<br /> wait a little till he be
+      awake.' We accordingly sat<br /> down and resolved to await a more
+      favorable moment.<br /> 'Gentlemen,' said the lady, after having taken her<br />
+      seat also, 'I really wish you may succeed with Mr.<br /> Paine, for he is
+      laboring under great distress of mind<br /> ever since he was informed by
+      his physicians that he<br /> cannot possibly live and must die shortly. He
+      sent<br /> for you to-day because he was told that if any one<br /> could do
+      him good you might. Possibly he may<br /> think you know of some remedy
+      which his physicians<br /> are ignorant of. He is truly to be pitied. His
+      cries<br /> when he is left alone are heart-rending. 'O Lord<br /> help me!'
+      he will exclaim during his paroxysms of<br /> distress&mdash;'God help me&mdash;Jesus
+      Christ help me!'<br /> repeating the same expressions without the least<br />
+      variation, in a tone of voice that would alarm the<br /> house. Sometimes
+      he will say, 'O God, what have<br /> I done to suffer so much!' then,
+      shortly after, 'But<br /> there is no God,' and again a little after, 'Yet
+      if<br /> there should be, what would become of me hereafter.'<br /> <br />
+      513<br /> <br /> Thus he will continue for some time, when on a sud-<br />
+      den he will scream, as if in terror and agony, and<br /> call out for me by
+      name. On one of these occasions,<br /> which are very frequent, I went to
+      him and inquired<br /> what he wanted. 'Stay with me,' he replied, 'for<br />
+      God's sake, for I cannot bear to be left alone.' I<br /> then observed that
+      I could not always be with him,<br /> as I had much to attend to in the
+      house. 'Then,' said<br /> he, 'send even a child to stay with me, for it is
+      a<br /> hell to be alone.' 'I never saw,' she concluded, 'a<br /> more
+      unhappy, a more forsaken man. It seems he<br /> cannot reconcile himself to
+      die.'<br /> <br /> "Such was the conversation of the woman who<br /> had
+      received us, and who probably had been employ-<br /> ed to nurse and take
+      care of him during his illness.<br /> She was a Protestant, yet seemed very
+      desirous that<br /> we should afford him some relief in his state of<br />
+      abandonment, bordering on complete despair. Hav-<br /> ing remained thus
+      some time in the parlor, we at<br /> length heard a noise in the adjoining
+      passage-way,<br /> which induced us to believe that Mr. Paine, who was<br />
+      sick in that room, had awoke. We accordingly pro-<br /> posed to proceed
+      thither, which was assented to by<br /> the woman, and she opened the door
+      for us. On<br /> entering, we found him just getting out of his<br />
+      slumber. A more wretched being in appearance I<br /> <br /> 514<br /> <br />
+      never beheld. He was lying in a bed sufficiently<br /> decent of itself,
+      but at present besmeared with filth;<br /> his look was that of a man
+      greatly tortured in mind;<br /> his eyes haggard, his countenance
+      forbidding, and<br /> his whole appearance that of one whose better days<br />
+      had been one continued scene of debauch. His only<br /> nourishment at this
+      time, as we were informed, was<br /> nothing more than milk punch, in which
+      he indulged<br /> to the full extent of his weak state. He had par-<br />
+      taken, undoubtedly, but very recently of it, as the<br /> sides and corners
+      of his mouth exhibited very un-<br /> equivocal traces of it, as well as of
+      blood, which had<br /> also followed in the track and left its mark on the<br />
+      pillow. His face, to a certain extent, had also been<br /> besmeared with
+      it."<br /> <br /> Immediately upon their making known the object<br /> of
+      their visit, Paine interrupted the speaker by say-<br /> ing: "That's
+      enough, sir; that's enough," and again<br /> interrupting him, "I see what
+      you would be about.<br /> I wish to hear no more from you, sir. My mind is<br />
+      made up on that subject. I look upon the whole of<br /> the Christian
+      scheme to be a tissue of absurdities<br /> and lies, and Jesus Christ to be
+      nothing more than a<br /> cunning knave and impostor." He drove them out<br />
+      of the room, exclaiming: Away with you and your<br /> God, too; leave the
+      room instantly; all that you<br /> <br /> 515<br /> <br /> have uttered are
+      lies&mdash;filthy lies; and if I had a<br /> little more time I would prove
+      it, as I did about<br /> your impostor, Jesus Christ."<br /> <br /> This, we
+      think, will suffice. We have a mass of<br /> letters containing statements
+      confirmatory of what<br /> we have published in regard to the life and
+      death of<br /> Paine, but nothing more can be required.<br /> <br /> <br />
+      <a name="link0013" id="link0013"></a><br /> <br /> <big><b>INGERSOLL'S
+      SECOND REPLY.</b></big><br /> <br /> Peoria, Nov. 2d, 1877.<br /> <br /> To
+      the Editor of the New York Observer:<br /> <br /> You ought to have honesty
+      enough to admit that<br /> you did, in your paper of July 19th, offer to
+      prove<br /> that the absurd story that Thomas Paine died in<br /> terror and
+      agony on account of the religious opinions<br /> he had expressed, was
+      true. You ought to have<br /> fairness enough to admit that you called upon
+      me<br /> to deposit one thousand dollars with an honest man,<br /> that you
+      might, by proving that Thomas Paine did<br /> die in terror, obtain the
+      money.<br /> <br /> You ought to have honor enough to admit that<br /> you
+      challenged me and that you commenced the<br /> controversy concerning
+      Thomas Paine.<br /> <br /> You ought to have goodness enough to admit<br />
+      that you were mistaken in the charges you made.<br /> <br /> You ought to
+      have manhood enough to do what<br /> you falsely asserted that Thomas Paine
+      did:&mdash;you<br /> ought to recant. You ought to admit publicly that<br />
+      you slandered the dead; that you falsified history;<br /> that you defamed
+      the defenceless; that you deliber-<br /> <br /> 517<br /> <br /> ately denied
+      what you had published in your own<br /> paper. There is an old saying to
+      the effect that<br /> open confession is good for the soul. To you is<br />
+      presented a splendid opportunity of testing the truth<br /> of this saying.<br />
+      <br /> Nothing has astonished me more than your lack<br /> of common honesty
+      exhibited in this controversy. In<br /> your last, you quote from Dr. J. W.
+      Francis. Why<br /> did you leave out that portion in which Dr. Francis<br />
+      says <i>that Cheetham with settled malignity wrote the<br /> life of Paine?</i>
+      Why did you leave out that part in<br /> which Dr. Francis says that
+      Cheetham in the same<br /> way <i>slandered Alexander Hamilton and De Witt<br />
+      Clinton?</i> Is it your business to suppress the truth?<br /> Why did you
+      not publish the entire letter of Bishop<br /> Fenwick? Was it because it
+      proved beyond all<br /> cavil that Thomas Paine did not recant? Was it<br />
+      because in the light of that letter Mary Roscoe,<br /> Mary Hinsdale and
+      Grant Thorburn appeared un-<br /> worthy of belief? Dr. J. W. Francis says
+      in the<br /> same article from which you quoted, "<i>Paine clung to<br />
+      his Infidelity until the last moment of his life!'</i> Why<br /> did you
+      not publish that? It was the first line im-<br /> mediately above what you
+      did quote. You must<br /> have seen it. Why did you suppress it? A lawyer,<br />
+      doing a thing of this character, is denominated a<br /> <br /> 518<br />
+      <br /> shyster. I do not know the appropriate word to<br /> designate a
+      theologian guilty of such an act.<br /> <br /> You brought forward three
+      witnesses, pretending<br /> to have personal knowledge about the life and
+      death<br /> of Thomas Paine: Grant Thorburn, Mary Roscoe<br /> and Mary
+      Hinsdale. In my reply I took the ground<br /> that Mary Roscoe and Mary
+      Hinsdale must have<br /> been the same person. I thought it impossible that<br />
+      Paine should have had a conversation with Mary<br /> Roscoe, and then one
+      precisely like it with Mary<br /> Hinsdale. Acting upon this conviction, I
+      proceeded<br /> to show that the conversation never could have hap-<br />
+      pened, that it was absurdly false to say that Paine<br /> asked the opinion
+      of a girl as to his works who had<br /> never read but little of them. I
+      then showed by the<br /> testimony of William Cobbett, that he visited Mary<br />
+      Hinsdale in 1819, taking with him a statement con-<br /> cerning the
+      recantation of Paine, given him by Mr.<br /> Collins, and that upon being
+      shown this statement<br /> she said that "it was so long ago that she could
+      not<br /> speak positively to any part of the matter&mdash;that she<br />
+      would not say any part of the paper was true." At<br /> that time she knew
+      nothing, and remembered noth-<br /> ing. I also showed that she was a kind
+      of standing<br /> witness to prove that others recanted. Willett Hicks<br />
+      denounced her as unworthy of belief.<br /> <br /> 519<br /> <br /> To-day the
+      following from the New York <i>World</i><br /> was received, showing that I
+      was right in my<br /> conjecture:<br /> <br /> <br /> Tom Paine's Death-Bed.<br />
+      <br /> <i>To the Editor of the World</i>:<br /> <br /> Sir: I see by your
+      paper that Bob Ingersoll dis-<br /> credits Mary Hinsdale's story of the
+      scenes which<br /> occurred at the death-bed of Thomas Paine. No<br /> one
+      who knew that good lady would for one moment<br /> doubt her veracity or
+      question her testimony. Both<br /> she and her husband were Quaker
+      preachers, and<br /> well known and respected inhabitants of New York<br />
+      City, <i>Ingersoll is right in his conjecture that Mary<br /> Roscoe and
+      Mary Hinsdale was the same person</i>. Her<br /> maiden name was Roscoe,
+      and she married Henry<br /> Hinsdale. My mother was a Roscoe, a niece of<br />
+      Mary Roscoe, and lived with her for some time. I<br /> have heard her
+      relate the story of Tom Paine's dying<br /> remorse, as told her by her
+      aunt, who was a witness<br /> to it. She says (in a letter I have just
+      received from<br /> her), "he (Tom Paine) suffered fearfully from remorse,<br />
+      and renounced his Infidel principles, calling on God<br /> to forgive him,
+      and wishing his pamphlets and books<br /> to be burned, saying he could not
+      die in peace until<br /> it was done." (Rev.) A. W. Cornell.<br /> <br />
+      Harpersville, New York.<br /> <br /> 520<br /> <br /> You will notice that the
+      testimony of Mary Hins-<br /> dale has been drawing interest since 1809,
+      and has<br /> materially increased. If Paine "suffered fearfully<br /> from
+      remorse, renounced his Infidel opinions and<br /> called on God to forgive
+      him," it is hardly generous<br /> for the Christian world to fasten the
+      fangs of malice<br /> in the flesh of his reputation.<br /> <br /> So Mary
+      Roscoe was Mary Hinsdale, and as<br /> Mary Hinsdale has been shown by her
+      own admis-<br /> sion to Mr. Cobbett to have known nothing of the<br />
+      matter; and as Mary Hinsdale was not, according to<br /> Willet Hicks,
+      worthy of belief&mdash;as she told a false-<br /> hood of the same kind
+      about Mary Lockwood, and<br /> was, according to Mr. Collins, addicted to
+      the use of<br /> opium&mdash;this disposes of her and her testimony.<br />
+      <br /> There remains upon the stand Grant Thorburn.<br /> Concerning this
+      witness, I received, yesterday, from<br /> the eminent biographer and
+      essayist, James Parton,<br /> the following epistle:<br /> <br />
+      Newburyport, Mass.<br /> <br /> Col. R. G. Ingersoll:<br /> <br /> Touching
+      Grant Thorburn, I personally know him<br /> to have been a dishonest man.
+      At the age of ninety-<br /> two he copied, with trembling hand, a piece
+      from a<br /> newspaper and brought it to the office of the <i>Home<br />
+      Journal, as his own</i>. It was I who received it and<br /> <br /> 521<br />
+      <br /> detected the deliberate forgery. If you are ever go-<br /> ing to
+      continue this subject, I will give you the exact<br /> facts.<br /> <br />
+      Fervently yours,<br /> <br /> James Parton.<br /> <br /> After this, you are
+      welcome to what remains of<br /> Grant Thorburn.<br /> <br /> There is one
+      thing that I have noticed during this<br /> controversy regarding Thomas
+      Paine. In no instance<br /> that I now call to mind has any Christian
+      writer<br /> spoken respectfully of Mr. Paine. All have taken<br />
+      particular pains to call him "Tom" Paine. Is it not<br /> a little strange
+      that religion should make men so<br /> coarse and ill-mannered?<br /> <br />
+      I have often wondered what these same gentle-<br /> men would say if I
+      should speak of the men eminent<br /> in the annals of Christianity in the
+      same way. What<br /> would they say if I should write about "Tim"<br />
+      Dwight, old "Ad" Clark, "Tom" Scott, "Jim"<br /> McKnight, "Bill" Hamilton,
+      "Dick" Whately, "Bill"<br /> Paley, and "Jack" Calvin?<br /> <br /> They
+      would <i>say</i> of me then, just what I <i>think</i> of<br /> them now.<br />
+      <br /> Even if we have religion, do not let us try to get<br /> along
+      without good manners. Rudeness is exceed-<br /> ingly unbecoming, even in a
+      saint. Persons who<br /> <br /> 522<br /> <br /> forgive their enemies ought,
+      to say the least, to<br /> treat with politeness those who have never
+      injured<br /> them.<br /> <br /> It is exceedingly gratifying to me that I
+      have com-<br /> pelled you to say that "Paine died a blaspheming<br />
+      Infidel." Hereafter it is to be hoped nothing will be<br /> heard about his
+      having recanted. As an answer to<br /> such slander his friends can
+      confidently quote the<br /> following from the <i>New York Observer</i> of
+      November<br /> ist, 1877:<br /> <br /> "WE HAVE NEVER STATED IN ANY FORM, NOR<br />
+      HAVE WE EVER SUPPOSED THAT PAINE ACTUALLY RE-<br /> NOUNCED HIS INFIDELITY.
+      THE ACCOUNTS AGREE IN<br /> STATING THAT HE DIED A BLASPHEMING INFIDEL."<br />
+      <br /> This for all coming time will refute the slanders of<br /> the
+      churches yet to be.<br /> <br /> Right here allow me to ask: If you never
+      supposed<br /> that Paine renounced his Infidelity, why did you try<br /> to
+      prove by Mary Hinsdale that which you believed<br /> to be untrue?<br />
+      <br /> From the bottom of my heart I thank myself for<br /> having compelled
+      you to admit that Thomas Paine<br /> did not recant.<br /> <br /> For the
+      purpose of verifying your own admission<br /> concerning the death of Mr.
+      Paine, permit me to call<br /> your attention to the following affidavit:<br />
+      <br /> 523<br /> <br /> Wabash, Indiana, October 27, 1877.<br /> <br /> Col. R.
+      G. Ingersoll:<br /> <br /> Dear Sir: The following statement of facts is at<br />
+      your disposal. In the year 1833 Willet Hicks made<br /> a visit to Indiana
+      and stayed over night at my father's<br /> house, four miles east of
+      Richmond. In the morn-<br /> ing at breakfast my mother asked Willet Hicks
+      the<br /> following questions:<br /> <br /> "Was thee with Thomas Paine
+      during his last<br /> sickness?"<br /> <br /> Mr. Hicks said: "I was with him
+      every day dur-<br /> ing the latter part of his last sickness."<br /> <br />
+      "Did he express any regret in regard to writing<br /> the 'Age of Reason,'
+      as the published accounts say<br /> he did&mdash;those accounts that have
+      the credit of ema-<br /> nating from his Catholic housekeeper?"<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Hicks replied: "He did not in any way by<br /> word or action."<br />
+      <br /> "Did he call on God or Jesus Christ, asking either<br /> of them to
+      forgive his sins, or did he curse them or<br /> either of them?"<br /> <br />
+      Mr. Hicks answered: "He did not. He died as<br /> easy as any one I ever
+      saw die, and I have seen<br /> many die in my time." William B Barnes.<br />
+      <br /> Subscribed and sworn to before me Oct. 27, 1877.<br /> <br /> Warren
+      Bigler, Notary Public.<br /> <br /> 524<br /> <br /> You say in your last that
+      "Thomas Paine was<br /> abandoned of God." So far as this controversy is<br />
+      concerned, it seems to me that in that sentence you<br /> have most
+      graphically described your own condi-<br /> tion.<br /> <br /> Wishing you
+      success in all honest undertakings, I<br /> remain,<br /> <br /> Yours truly,<br />
+      <br /> Robert G. Ingersoll.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+    <table summary="" border="3" cellpadding="4">
+      <tbody>
+        <tr>
+          <td>
+            <big><big><a
+            href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38813/38813-h/38813-h.htm">
+            TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR ALL 12 EBOOKS IN THIS SET</a></big></big>
+          </td>
+          <td></td>
+        </tr>
+      </tbody>
+    </table>
+    <p>
+      <br /> <br />
+    </p>
+<pre xml:space="preserve">
+
+
+
+
+
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+</pre>
+  </body>
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+The Project Gutenberg EBook of The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 5
+(of 12), by Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with
+almost no restrictions whatsoever.  You may copy it, give it away or
+re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included
+with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org
+
+
+Title: The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol. 5 (of 12)
+       Dresden Edition--Discussions
+
+Author: Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+Release Date: February 9, 2012 [EBook #38805]
+
+Language: English
+
+Character set encoding: ASCII
+
+*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK WORKS OF INGERSOLL ***
+
+
+
+
+Produced by David Widger
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+THE WORKS OF Robert G. Ingersoll
+
+"There Can Be But Little Liberty On Earth
+While Men Worship A Tyrant In Heaven."
+
+In Twelve Volumes, Volume V.
+
+DISCUSSIONS
+
+1900
+
+
+DRESDEN EDITION
+
+
+
+
+CONTENTS OF VOLUME V.
+
+SIX INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.
+
+(1882.)
+
+Preface--First Interview: Great Men as Witnesses
+to the Truth of the Gospel--No man should quote
+the Words of Another unless he is willing to
+Accept all the Opinions of that Man--Reasons of
+more Weight than Reputations--Would a general
+Acceptance of Unbelief fill the Penitentiaries?--
+My Creed--Most Criminals Orthodox--Relig-ion and
+Morality not Necessarily Associates--On the
+Creation of the Universe out of Omnipotence--Mr.
+Talmage's Theory about the Pro-duction of Light
+prior to the Creation of the Sun--The Deluge and
+the Ark--Mr. Talmage's tendency to Belittle the
+Bible Miracles--His Chemical, Geological, and
+Agricultural Views--His Disregard of Good Manners-
+-Second Interview: An Insulting Text--God's Design
+in Creating Guiteau to be the Assassin of
+Garfield--Mr. Talmage brings the Charge of
+Blasphemy--Some Real Blasphemers--The Tabernacle
+Pastor tells the exact Opposite of the Truth about
+Col. Ingersoll's Attitude toward the Circulation
+of Immoral Books--"Assassinating" God--Mr.
+Talmage finds Nearly All the Invention of Modern
+Times Mentioned in the Bible--The Reverend
+Gentleman corrects the Translators of the Bible in
+the Matter of the Rib Story--Denies that Polygamy
+is permitted by the Old Testament--His De-fence of
+Queen Victoria and Violation of the Grave of
+George Eliot--Exhibits a Christian Spirit--Third
+Interview: Mr. Talmage's Partiality in the
+Bestowal of his Love--Denies the Right of Laymen
+to Examine the Scriptures--Thinks the Infidels
+Victims of Bibliophobia --He explains the Stopping
+of the Sun and Moon at the Command of Joshua--
+Instances a Dark Day in the Early Part of the
+Century--Charges that Holy Things are Made Light
+of--Reaffirms his Confidence in the Whale and
+Jonah Story--The Commandment which Forbids the
+making of Graven Images--Affirmation that the
+Bible is the Friend of Woman--The Present
+Condition of Woman--Fourth Interview: Colonel
+Ingersoll Compared by Mr. Talmage tojehoiakim, who
+Consigned Writings of Jeremiah to the Flames--An
+Intimation that Infidels wish to have all copies
+of the Bible Destroyed by Fire--Laughter
+Deprecated--Col. Ingersoll Accused of Denouncing
+his Father--Mr. Talmage holds that a Man may be
+Perfectly Happy in Heaven with His Mother in Hell-
+-Challenges the Infidel to Read a Chapter from St.
+John--On the "Chief Solace of the World"--Dis-
+covers an Attempt is being made to Put Out the
+Light-houses of the Farther Shore--Affirms our
+Debt to Christianity for Schools, Hospitals,
+etc.--Denies that Infidels have ever Done any
+Good--
+
+Fifth Interview: Inquiries if Men gather Grapes of
+Thorns, or Figs of Thistles, and is Answered in
+the Negative--Resents the Charge that the Bible is
+a Cruel Book--Demands to Know where the Cruelty of
+the Bible Crops out in the Lives of Christians--
+Col. Ingersoll Accused of saying that the Bible
+is a Collection of Polluted Writings--Mr. Talmage
+Asserts the Orchestral Harmony of the Scriptures
+from Genesis to Revelation, and Repudiates the
+Theory of Contradictions--His View of Mankind
+Indicated in Quotations from his Confession of
+Faith--He Insists that the Bible is Scientific--
+Traces the New Testament to its Source with St.
+John--Pledges his Word that no Man ever Died for a
+Lie Cheerfully and Triumphantly--As to Prophecies
+and Predictions--Alleged "Prophetic" Fate of the
+Jewish People--Sixth Interview: Dr. Talmage takes
+the Ground that the Unrivalled Circulation of the
+Bible Proves that it is Inspired--Forgets' that a
+Scientific Fact does not depend on the Vote of
+Numbers--Names some Christian Millions--His
+Arguments Characterized as the Poor-est, Weakest,
+and Best Possible in Support of the Doctrine of
+Inspira-tion--Will God, in Judging a Man, take
+into Consideration the Cir-cumstances of that
+Man's Life?--Satisfactory Reasons for Not Believ-
+ing that the Bible is inspired.
+
+
+THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.
+
+The Pith and Marrow of what Mr. Talmage has been
+Pleased to Say, set forth in the form of a Shorter
+Catechism.
+
+
+A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.
+
+(1877.)
+
+Letter to the New York Observer--An Offer to Pay
+One Thousand Dollars in Gold for Proof that Thomas
+Paine or Voltaire Died in Terror because of any
+Religious Opinions Either had Expressed--
+Proposition to Create a Tribunal to Hear the
+Evidence--The Ob-server, after having Called upon
+Col. Ingersoll to Deposit the Money, and
+Characterized his Talk as "Infidel 'Buncombe,'"
+Denies its Own Words, but attempts to Prove them--
+Its Memory Refreshed by Col. Ingersoll and the
+Slander Refuted--Proof that Paine did Not Recant -
+-Testimony of Thomas Nixon, Daniel Pelton, Mr.
+Jarvis, B. F. Has-kin, Dr. Manley, Amasa
+Woodsworth, Gilbert Vale, Philip Graves, M. D.,
+Willet Hicks, A. C. Hankinson, John Hogeboom, W.
+J. Hilton, Tames Cheetham, Revs. Milledollar and
+Cunningham, Mrs. Hedden, Andrew A. Dean, William
+Carver,--The Statements of Mary Roscoe and Mary
+Hindsdale Examined--William Cobbett's Account of a
+Call upon Mary Hinsdale--Did Thomas Paine live the
+Life of a Drunken Beast, and did he Die a Drunken,
+Cowardly, and Beastly Death?--Grant Thorbum's
+Charges Examined--Statement of the Rev. J. D.
+Wickham, D.D., shown to be Utterly False--False
+Witness of the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D.--W. H.
+Ladd, James Cheetham, and Mary Hinsdale--Paine's
+Note to Cheetham--Mr-Staple, Mr. Purdy, Col. John
+Fellows, James Wilburn, Walter Morton, Clio
+Rickman, Judge Herttell, H. Margary, Elihu Palmer,
+Mr.
+
+XV
+
+Lovett, all these Testified that Paine was a
+Temperate Man--Washington's Letter to Paine--
+Thomas Jefferson's--Adams and Washing-ton on
+"Common Sense"---James Monroe's Tribute--
+Quotations from Paine--Paine's Estate and His
+Will--The Observer's Second Attack (p. 492):
+Statements of Elkana Watson, William Carver, Rev.
+E. F. Hatfield, D.D., James Cheetham, Dr. J. W.
+Francis, Dr. Manley, Bishop Fenwick--Ingersoll's
+Second Reply (p. 516): Testimony Garbled by the
+Editor of the Observer--Mary Roscoeand Mary Hins-
+dale the Same Person--Her Reputation for Veracity-
+-Letter from Rev. A. W. Cornell--Grant Thorburn
+Exposed by James Parton--The Observer's Admission
+that Paine did not Recant--Affidavit of
+
+William B. Barnes.
+
+
+
+
+PREFACE.
+
+SEVERAL people, having read the sermons of
+Mr. Talmage in which he reviews some of my
+lectures, have advised me not to pay the slightest
+attention to the Brooklyn divine. They think that
+no new arguments have been brought forward, and
+they have even gone so far as to say that some of
+the best of the old ones have been left out.
+
+After thinking the matter over, I became satisfied
+that my friends were mistaken, that they had been car-
+ried away by the general current of modern thought,
+and were not in a frame of mind to feel the force
+of the arguments of Mr. Talmage, or to clearly see
+the candor that characterizes his utterances.
+
+At the first reading, the logic of these sermons does
+not impress you. The style is of a character calculated
+
+VI
+
+to throw the searcher after facts and arguments off
+his guard. The imagination of the preacher is so
+lurid; he is so free from the ordinary forms of ex-
+pression; his statements are so much stranger than
+truth, and his conclusions so utterly independent of
+his premises, that the reader is too astonished to
+be convinced. Not until I had read with great care
+the six discourses delivered for my benefit had I any
+clear and well-defined idea of the logical force of
+Mr. Talmage. I had but little conception of his
+candor, was almost totally ignorant of his power to
+render the simple complex and the plain obscure by
+the mutilation of metaphor and the incoherence
+of inspired declamation. Neither did I know the
+generous accuracy with which he states the position
+of an opponent, and the fairness he exhibits in a
+religious discussion.
+
+He has without doubt studied the Bible as closely
+and critically as he has the works of Buckle and
+Darwin, and he seems to have paid as much attention
+to scientific subjects as most theologians. His theory
+of light and his views upon geology are strikingly
+original, and his astronomical theories are certainly as
+profound as practical. If his statements can be relied
+upon, he has successfully refuted the teachings of
+
+VII
+
+Humboldt and Haeckel, and exploded the blunders of
+Spencer and Tyndall. Besides all this, he has the
+courage of his convictions--he does not quail before a
+fact, and he does not strike his colors even to a dem-
+onstration. He cares nothing for human experience.
+He cannot be put down with statistics, nor driven
+from his position by the certainties of science. He
+cares neither for the persistence of force, nor the
+indestructibility of matter.
+
+He believes in the Bible, and he has the bravery
+to defend his belief. In this, he proudly stands
+almost alone. He knows that the salvation of the
+world depends upon a belief in his creed. He
+knows that what are called "the sciences" are of
+no importance in the other world. He clearly sees
+that it is better to live and die ignorant here, if you
+can wear a crown of glory hereafter. He knows it
+is useless to be perfectly familiar with all the sciences
+in this world, and then in the next "lift up your eyes,
+being in torment." He knows, too, that God will
+not punish any man for denying a fact in science.
+A man can deny the rotundity of the earth, the
+attraction of gravitation, the form of the earths orbit,
+or the nebular hypothesis, with perfect impunity.
+He is not bound to be correct upon any philo-
+
+VIII
+
+sophical subject. He is at liberty to deny and ridi-
+cule the rule of three, conic sections, and even the
+multiplication table. God permits every human
+being to be mistaken upon every subject but one.
+No man can lose his soul by denying physical facts.
+Jehovah does not take the slightest pride in his geology,
+
+or in his astronomy, or in mathematics, or in
+any school of philosophy--he is jealous only of his
+reputation as the author of the Bible. You may deny
+everything else in the universe except that book.
+This being so, Mr. Talmage takes the safe side, and
+insists that the Bible is inspired. He knows that at
+the day of judgment, not a scientific question will be
+asked. He knows that the Haeckels and Huxleys
+will, on that terrible day, regret that they ever
+learned to read. He knows that there is no "saving
+grace" in any department of human knowledge; that
+mathematics and all the exact sciences and all the
+philosophies will be worse than useless. He knows
+that inventors, discoverers, thinkers and investigators,
+have no claim upon the mercy of Jehovah; that the
+educated will envy the ignorant, and that the writers
+and thinkers will curse their books.
+
+He knows that man cannot be saved through
+what he knows--but only by means of what he
+
+IX
+
+believes. Theology is not a science. If it were,
+God would forgive his children for being mistaken
+about it. If it could be proved like geology, or
+astronomy, there would be no merit in believing it.
+From a belief in the Bible, Mr. Talmage is not to be
+driven by uninspired evidence. He knows that his
+logic is liable to lead him astray, and that his reason
+cannot be depended upon. He believes that scien-
+tific men are no authority in matters concerning
+which nothing can be known, and he does not wish
+to put his soul in peril, by examining by the light of
+reason, the evidences of the supernatural.
+
+He is perfectly consistent with his creed. What
+happens to us here is of no consequence compared
+with eternal joy or pain. The ambitions, honors,
+glories and triumphs of this world, compared with
+eternal things, are less than naught.
+
+Better a cross here and a crown there, than a feast
+here and a fire there.
+
+Lazarus was far more fortunate than Dives. The
+purple and fine linen of this short life are as nothing
+compared with the robes of the redeemed.
+
+Mr. Talmage knows that philosophy is unsafe--
+that the sciences are sirens luring souls to eternal
+wreck. He knows that the deluded searchers after
+
+X
+
+facts are planting thorns in their own pillows--that
+the geologists are digging pits for themselves, and
+that the astronomers are robbing their souls of the
+heaven they explore. He knows that thought, capa-
+city, and intellectual courage are dangerous, and this
+belief gives him a feeling of personal security.
+
+The Bible is adapted to the world as it is. Most
+people are ignorant, and but few have the capacity to
+comprehend philosophical and scientific subjects, and
+if salvation depended upon understanding even one
+of the sciences, nearly everybody would be lost.
+Mr. Talmage sees that it was exceedingly merciful in
+God to base salvation on belief instead of on brain.
+Millions can believe, while only a few can understand.
+Even the effort to understand is a kind of treason
+born of pride and ingratitude. This being so, it is far
+safer, far better, to be credulous than critical. You are
+offered an infinite reward for believing the Bible. If
+you examine it you may find it impossible for you to
+believe it. Consequently, examination is dangerous.
+Mr. Talmage knows that it is not necessary to under-
+stand the Bible in order to believe it. You must be-
+lieve it first. Then, if on reading it you find anything
+that appears false, absurd, or impossible, you may
+be sure that it is only an appearance, and that the real
+
+XI
+
+fault is in yourself. It is certain that persons wholly
+incapable of reasoning are absolutely safe, and that
+to be born brainless is to be saved in advance.
+
+Mr. Talmage takes the ground,--and certainly from
+his point of view nothing can be more reasonable
+--that thought should be avoided, after one has
+"experienced religion" and has been the subject of
+"regeneration." Every sinner should listen to ser-
+mons, read religious books, and keep thinking, until
+he becomes a Christian. Then he should stop. After
+that, thinking is not the road to heaven. The real
+point and the real difficulty is to stop thinking just at
+the right time. Young Christians, who have no idea
+of what they are doing, often go on thinking after
+joining the church, and in this way heresy is born, and
+heresy is often the father of infidelity. If Christians
+would follow the advice and example of Mr. Talmage
+all disagreements about doctrine would be avoided.
+In this way the church could secure absolute in-
+tellectual peace and all the disputes, heartburnings,
+jealousies and hatreds born of thought, discussion
+and reasoning, would be impossible.
+
+In the estimation of Mr. Talmage, the man who
+doubts and examines is not fit for the society of
+angels. There are no disputes, no discussions in
+
+XII
+
+heaven. The angels do not think; they believe,
+they enjoy. The highest form of religion is re-
+pression. We should conquer the passions and
+destroy desire. We should control the mind and
+stop thinking. In this way we "offer ourselves a
+"living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God." When
+desire dies, when thought ceases, we shall be pure.
+--This is heaven.
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll.
+
+Washington, D. C,
+
+April; 1882.
+
+
+
+
+INGERSOLL'S INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.
+
+
+
+
+FIRST INTERVIEW.
+
+_Polonius. My lord, I will use them according to
+their desert.
+
+Hamlet. God's bodikins, man, much better: use
+every man after his desert, and who should 'scape
+whipping? Use them after your own honor and
+dignity: the less they deserve, the more merit is
+in your bounty._
+
+_Question_. Have you read the sermon of
+
+Mr. Talmage, in which he exposes your mis-
+representations?
+
+_Answer_. I have read such reports as appeared in
+some of the New York papers.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of what he has
+to say?
+
+_Answer_. Some time ago I gave it as my opinion
+of Mr. Talmage that, while he was a man of most
+excellent judgment, he was somewhat deficient in
+imagination. I find that he has the disease that seems
+
+16
+
+to afflict most theologians, and that is, a kind of intel-
+lectual toadyism, that uses the names of supposed great
+men instead of arguments. It is perfectly astonishing
+to the average preacher that any one should have the
+temerity to differ, on the subject of theology, with
+Andrew Jackson, Daniel Webster, and other gentlemen
+eminent for piety during their lives, but who,
+as a rule, expressed their theological opinions a few
+minutes before dissolution. These ministers are per-
+fectly delighted to have some great politician, some
+judge, soldier, or president, certify to the truth of the
+Bible and to the moral character of Jesus Christ.
+
+Mr. Talmage insists that if a witness is false in one
+particular, his entire testimony must be thrown away.
+Daniel Webster was in favor of the Fugitive Slave
+Law, and thought it the duty of the North to capture
+the poor slave-mother. He was willing to stand
+between a human being and his freedom. He was
+willing to assist in compelling persons to work without
+any pay except such marks of the lash as they might
+receive. Yet this man is brought forward as a witness
+for the truth of the gospel. If he was false in his
+testimony as to liberty, what is his affidavit worth as
+to the value of Christianity? Andrew Jackson was a
+brave man, a good general, a patriot second to none,
+
+17
+
+an excellent judge of horses, and a brave duelist. I
+admit that in his old age he relied considerably upon
+the atonement. I think Jackson was really a very great
+man, and probably no President impressed himself
+more deeply upon the American people than the hero
+of New Orleans, but as a theologian he was, in my
+judgment, a most decided failure, and his opinion as
+to the authenticity of the Scriptures is of no earthly
+value. It was a subject upon which he knew probably
+as little as Mr. Talmage does about modern infidelity.
+Thousands of people will quote Jackson in favor of
+religion, about which he knew nothing, and yet have
+no confidence in his political opinions, although he
+devoted the best part of his life to politics.
+
+No man should quote the words of another, in place
+of an argument, unless he is willing to accept all the
+opinions of that man. Lord Bacon denied the Copernican
+
+system of astronomy, and, according to Mr.
+Talmage, having made that mistake, his opinions upon
+other subjects are equally worthless. Mr. Wesley
+believed in ghosts, witches, and personal devils, yet
+upon many subjects I have no doubt his opinions were
+correct. The truth is, that nearly everybody is right
+about some things and wrong about most things; and
+if a man's testimony is not to be taken until he is
+
+18
+
+right on every subject, witnesses will be extremely
+scarce.
+
+Personally, I care nothing about names. It makes
+no difference to me what the supposed great men of
+the past have said, except as what they have said
+contains an argument; and that argument is worth to
+me the force it naturally has upon my mind. Chris-
+tians forget that in the realm of reason there are no
+serfs and no monarchs. When you submit to an
+argument, you do not submit to the man who made it.
+Christianity demands a certain obedience, a certain
+blind, unreasoning faith, and parades before the eyes
+of the ignorant, with great pomp and pride, the names
+of kings, soldiers, and statesmen who have admitted
+the truth of the Bible. Mr. Talmage introduces as a
+witness the Rev. Theodore Parker. This same The-
+odore Parker denounced the Presbyterian creed as
+the most infamous of all creeds, and said that the worst
+heathen god, wearing a necklace of live snakes, was a
+representation of mercy when compared with the God
+of John Calvin. Now, if this witness is false in any
+particular, of course he cannot be believed, according
+to Mr. Talmage, upon any subject, and yet Mr.
+Talmage introduces him upon the stand as a good
+witness.
+
+19
+
+Although I care but little for names, still I will sug-
+gest that, in all probability, Humboldt knew more upon
+this subject than all the pastors in the world. I cer-
+tainly would have as much confidence in the opinion
+of Goethe as in that of William H. Seward; and as
+between Seward and Lincoln, I should take Lincoln;
+and when you come to Presidents, for my part, if I
+were compelled to pin my faith on the sleeve of any-
+body, I should take Jefferson's coat in preference to
+Jackson's. I believe that Haeckel is, to say the least,
+the equal of any theologian we have in this country,
+and the late John W. Draper certainly knew as much
+upon these great questions as the average parson. I
+believe that Darwin has investigated some of these
+things, that Tyndall and Huxley have turned their
+minds somewhat in the same direction, that Helmholtz
+has a few opinions, and that, in fact, thousands of able,
+intelligent and honest men differ almost entirely with
+Webster and Jackson.
+
+So far as I am concerned, I think more of reasons
+than of reputations, more of principles than of persons,
+more of nature than of names, more of facts, than of
+faiths.
+
+It is the same with books as with persons. Proba-
+bly there is not a book in the world entirely destitute
+
+20
+
+of truth, and not one entirely exempt from error.
+The Bible is like other books. There are mistakes in
+it, side by side with truths,--passages inculcating
+murder, and others exalting mercy; laws devilish and
+tyrannical, and others filled with wisdom and justice.
+It is foolish to say that if you accept a part, you must
+accept the whole. You must accept that which com-
+mends itself to your heart and brain. There never was
+a doctrine that a witness, or a book, should be thrown
+entirely away, because false in one particular. If in
+any particular the book, or the man, tells the truth, to
+that extent the truth should be accepted.
+
+Truth is made no worse by the one who tells it,
+and a lie gets no real benefit from the reputation of its
+author.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the statement
+that a general belief in your teachings would fill all
+the penitentiaries, and that in twenty years there
+would be a hell in this world worse than the one
+expected in the other?
+
+_Answer_. My creed is this:
+
+1. Happiness is the only good.
+
+2. The way to be happy, is to make others happy.
+
+21
+
+Other things being equal, that man is happiest who is
+nearest just--who is truthful, merciful and intelligent--
+in other words, the one who lives in accordance with
+the conditions of life.
+
+3. The time to be happy is now, and the place to
+be happy, is here.
+
+4. Reason is the lamp of the mind--the only torch
+of progress; and instead of blowing that out and de-
+pending upon darkness and dogma, it is far better to
+increase that sacred light.
+
+5. Every man should be the intellectual proprietor
+of himself, honest with himself, and intellectually
+hospitable; and upon every brain reason should be
+enthroned as king.
+
+6. Every man must bear the consequences, at
+least of his own actions. If he puts his hands in
+the fire, his hands must smart, and not the hands of
+another. In other words: each man must eat the
+fruit of the tree he plants.
+
+I can not conceive that the teaching of these doc-
+trines would fill penitentiaries, or crowd the gallows.
+The doctrine of forgiveness--the idea that somebody
+else can suffer in place of the guilty--the notion that
+just at the last the whole account can be settled--
+these ideas, doctrines, and notions are calculated to fill
+
+22
+
+penitentiaries. Nothing breeds extravagance like the
+credit system.
+
+Most criminals of the present day are orthodox be-
+lievers, and the gallows seems to be the last round of
+the ladder reaching from earth to heaven. The Rev.
+Dr. Sunderland, of this city, in his sermon on the assas-
+sination of Garfield, takes the ground that God per-
+mitted the murder for the purpose of opening the eyes
+of the people to the evil effects of infidelity. Accord-
+ing to this minister, God, in order to show his hatred
+of infidelity, "inspired," or allowed, one Christian to
+assassinate another.
+
+Religion and morality do not necessarily go together.
+Mr. Talmage will insist to-day that morality is not
+sufficient to save any man from eternal punishment.
+As a matter of fact, religion has often been the enemy
+of morality. The moralist has been denounced by the
+theologians. He sustains the same relation to Chris-
+tianity that the moderate drinker does to the total-
+abstinence society. The total-abstinence people say
+that the example of the moderate drinker is far worse
+upon the young than that of the drunkard--that the
+drunkard is a warning, while the moderate drinker is
+a perpetual temptation. So Christians say of moral-
+ists. According to them, the moralist sets a worse
+
+23
+
+example than the criminal. The moralist not only in-
+sists that a man can be a good citizen, a kind husband,
+an affectionate father, without religion, but demon-
+strates the truth of his doctrine by his own life;
+whereas the criminal admits that in and of himself he
+is nothing, and can do nothing, but that he needs
+assistance from the church and its ministers.
+
+The worst criminals of the modern world have been
+Christians--I mean by that, believers in Christianity--
+and the most monstrous crimes of the modern world
+have been committed by the most zealous believers.
+There is nothing in orthodox religion, apart from the
+morality it teaches, to prevent the commission oF crime.
+On the other hand, the perpetual proffer of forgiveness
+is a direct premium upon what Christians are pleased
+to call the commission of sin.
+
+Christianity has produced no greater character than
+Epictetus, no greater sovereign than Marcus Aurelius.
+The wickedness of the past was a good deal like that
+of the present. As a rule, kings have been wicked in
+direct proportion to their power--their power having
+been lessened, their crimes have decreased. As a
+matter of fact, paganism, of itself, did not produce any
+great men; neither has Christianity. Millions of in-
+fluences determine individual character, and the re-
+
+24
+
+ligion of the country in which a man happens to be
+born may determine many of his opinions, without
+influencing, to any great extent, his real character.
+
+There have been brave, honest, and intelligent men
+in and out of every church.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage says that you insist that,
+according to the Bible, the universe was made out of
+nothing, and he denounces your statement as a gross
+misrepresentation. What have you stated upon that
+subject?
+
+_Answer_. What I said was substantially this: "We
+"are told in the first chapter of Genesis, that in the
+"beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
+"If this means anything, it means that God pro-
+"duced--caused to exist, called into being--the
+"heaven and the earth. It will not do to say that
+"God formed the heaven and the earth of previously
+"existing matter. Moses conveys, and intended to
+"convey, the idea that the matter of which the
+"universe is composed was created."
+
+This has always been my position. I did not sup-
+pose that nothing was used as the raw material; but
+
+if the Mosaic account means anything, it means that
+whereas there was nothing, God caused something to
+
+25
+
+exist--created what we know as matter. I can not
+conceive of something being made, created, without
+anything to make anything with. I have no more
+confidence in fiat worlds than I have in fiat money.
+Mr. Talmage tells us that God did not make the uni-
+verse out of _nothing_, but out of "omnipotence."
+Exactly how God changed "omnipotence" into matter
+is not stated. If there was _nothing_ in the universe,
+_omnipotence_ could do you no good. The weakest man
+in the world can lift as much _nothing_ as God.
+
+Mr. Talmage seems to think that to create something
+from nothing is simply a question of strength--that it
+requires infinite muscle--that it is only a question of
+biceps. Of course, omnipotence is an attribute, not an
+entity, not a raw material; and the idea that something
+can be made out of omnipotence--using that as the
+raw material--is infinitely absurd. It would have
+been equally logical to say that God made the universe
+out of his omniscience, or his omnipresence, or his
+unchangeableness, or out of his honesty, his holiness,
+or his incapacity to do evil. I confess my utter in-
+ability to understand, or even to suspect, what the
+reverend gentleman means, when he says that God
+created the universe out of his "omnipotence."
+
+I admit that the Bible does not tell when God created
+
+26
+
+the universe. It is simply said that he did this "in the
+beginning." We are left, however, to infer that "the
+beginning" was Monday morning, and that on the
+first Monday God created the matter in an exceedingly
+chaotic state; that on Tuesday he made a firmament
+to divide the waters from the waters; that on Wednes-
+day he gathered the waters together in seas and
+allowed the dry land to appear. We are also told that
+on that day "the earth brought forth grass and herb
+"yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding
+"fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind." This
+was before the creation of the sun, but Mr. Talmage
+takes the ground that there are many other sources of
+light; that "there may have been volcanoes in active
+operation on other planets." I have my doubts,
+however, about the light of volcanoes being sufficient
+to produce or sustain vegetable life, and think it a
+little doubtful about trees growing only by "volcanic
+glare." Neither do I think one could depend upon
+"three thousand miles of liquid granite" for the pro-
+duction of grass and trees, nor upon "light that rocks
+might emit in the process of crystallization." I doubt
+whether trees would succeed simply with the assistance
+of the "Aurora Borealis or the Aurora Australis."
+There are other sources of light, not mentioned by
+
+27
+
+Mr. Talmage--lightning-bugs, phosphorescent beetles,
+and fox-fire. I should think that it would be humili-
+ating, in this age, for an orthodox preacher to insist
+that vegetation could exist upon this planet without the
+light of the sun--that trees could grow, blossom and
+bear fruit, having no light but the flames of volcanoes,
+or that emitted by liquid granite, or thrown off by the
+crystallization of rocks.
+
+There is another thing, also, that should not be for-
+gotten, and that is, that there is an even balance for-
+ever kept between the totals of animal and vegetable
+life--that certain forms of animal life go with certain
+forms of vegetable life. Mr. Haeckel has shown that
+"in the first epoch, algae and skull-less vertebrates
+were found together; in the second, ferns and fishes;
+in the third, pines and reptiles; in the fourth, foliaceous
+
+forests and mammals." Vegetable and animal
+life sustain a necessary relation; they exist together;
+they act and interact, and each depends upon the other.
+The real point of difference between Mr. Talmage and
+myself is this: He says that God made the universe
+out of his "omnipotence," and I say that, although I
+know nothing whatever upon the subject, my opinion
+is, that the universe has existed from eternity--that it
+continually changes in form, but that it never was
+
+28
+
+created or called into being by any power. I think
+that all that is, is all the God there is.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with having
+misrepresented the Bible story of the deluge. Has he
+correctly stated your position?
+
+_Answer_. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that the
+flood was only partial, and was, after all, not much of a
+flood. The Bible tells us that God said he would
+"destroy all flesh wherein is the breath of life from
+"under heaven, and that everything that is in the
+"earth shall die;" that God also said: "I will destroy
+"man, whom I have created, from the face of the
+"earth; both man and beast and the creeping thing
+"and the fowls of the air, and every living substance
+"that I have made will I destroy from off the face of
+"the earth."
+
+I did not suppose that there was any miracle in the
+Bible larger than the credulity of Mr. Talmage. The
+flood story, however, seems to be a little more than
+he can bear. He is like the witness who stated that
+he had read _Gullivers Travels_, the _Stories of Mun-
+chausen_, and the _Flying Wife_, including _Robinson
+Crusoe_, and believed them all; but that Wirt's _Life of
+Patrick Henry_ was a litde more than he could stand.
+
+29
+
+It is strange that a man who believes that God
+created the universe out of "omnipotence" should
+believe that he had not enough omnipotence left to
+drown a world the size of this. Mr. Talmage seeks
+to make the story of the flood reasonable. The
+moment it is reasonable, it ceases to be miraculous.
+Certainly God cannot afford to reward a man with
+eternal joy for believing a reasonable story. Faith is
+only necessary when the story is unreasonable, and if
+the flood only gets small enough, I can believe it
+myself. I ask for evidence, and Mr. Talmage seeks
+to make the story so little that it can be believed
+without evidence. He tells us that it was a kind of
+"local option" flood--a little wet for that part of the
+country.
+
+Why was it necessary to save the birds? They
+certainly could have gotten out of the way of a real
+small flood. Of the birds, Noah took fourteen of each
+species. He was commanded to take of the fowls of the
+air by sevens--seven of each sex--and, as there are
+at least 12,500 species, Noah collected an aviary of
+about 175,000 birds, provided the flood was general.
+If it was local, there are no means of determining the
+number. But why, if the flood was local, should he
+have taken any of the fowls of the air into his ark?
+
+30
+
+All they had to do was to fly away, or "roost high;"
+and it would have been just as easy for God to have
+implanted in them, for the moment, the instinct of
+getting out of the way as the instinct of hunting the ark.
+It would have been quite a saving of room and pro-
+visions, and would have materially lessened the labor
+and anxiety of Noah and his sons.
+
+Besides, if it had been a partial flood, and great
+enough to cover the highest mountains in that country,
+the highest mountain being about seventeen thousand
+feet, the flood would have been covered with a sheet
+of ice several thousand feet in thickness. If a column
+of water could have been thrown seventeen thousand
+feet high and kept stationary, several thousand feet
+of the upper end would have frozen. If, however,
+the deluge was general, then the atmosphere would
+have been forced out the same on all sides, and the
+climate remained substantially normal.
+
+Nothing can be more absurd than to attempt to
+explain the flood by calling it partial.
+
+Mr. Talmage also says that the window ran clear
+round the ark, and that if I had only known as much
+Hebrew as a man could put on his little finger, I
+would have known that the window went clear round.
+To this I reply that, if his position is correct, then the
+
+31
+
+original translators of King James' edition did not
+know as much Hebrew as they could have put on
+their little fingers; and yet I am obliged to believe
+their translation or be eternally damned. If the
+window went clear round, the inspired writer should
+have said so, and the learned translators should have
+given us the truth. No one pretends that there was
+more than one door, and yet the same language is
+used about the door, except this--that the exact size
+of the window is given, and the only peculiarity men-
+tioned as to the door is that it shut from the outside.
+For any one to see that Mr. Talmage is wrong on the
+window question, it is only necessary to read the story
+of the deluge.
+
+Mr. Talmage also endeavors to decrease the depth
+of the flood. If the flood did not cover the highest
+hills, many people might have been saved. He also
+insists that all the water did not come from the rains,
+but that "the fountains of the great deep were broken
+"up." What are "the fountains of the great deep"?
+How would their being "broken up" increase the
+depth of the water? He seems to imagine that these
+"fountains" were in some way imprisoned--anxious
+to get to the surface, and that, at that time, an oppor-
+tunity was given for water to run up hill, or in some
+
+32
+
+mysterious way to rise above its level. According to
+the account, the ark was at the mercy of the waves for
+at least seven months. If this flood was only partial,
+it seems a little curious that the water did not seek its
+level in less than seven months. With anything like
+a fair chance, by that time most of it would have
+found its way to the sea again.
+
+There is in the literature of ignorance no more
+perfectly absurd and cruel story than that of the
+deluge.
+
+I am very sorry that Mr. Talmage should disagree
+with some of the great commentators. Dr. Scott
+tells us that, in all probability, the angels assisted in
+getting the animals into the ark. Dr. Henry insists
+that the waters in the bowels of the earth, at God's
+command, sprung up and flooded the earth. Dr.
+Clark tells us that it would have been much easier
+for God to have destroyed all the people and made
+some new ones, but that he did not want to waste
+anything. Dr. Henry also tells us that the lions, while
+in the ark, ate straw like oxen. Nothing could be
+more amusing than to see a few lions eating good,
+dry straw. This commentator assures us that the
+waters rose so high that the loftiest mountains were
+overflowed fifteen cubits, so that salvation was not
+
+33
+
+hoped for from any hills or mountains. He tells us
+that some of the people got on top of the ark, and
+hoped to shift for themselves, but that, in all proba-
+bility, they were washed off by the rain. When we
+consider that the rain must have fallen at the rate of
+about eight hundred feet a day, I am inclined to think
+that they were washed off.
+
+Mr. Talmage has clearly misrepresented the Bible.
+He is not prepared to believe the story as it is told.
+The seeds of infidelity seem to be germinating in his
+mind. His position no doubt will be a great relief to
+most of his hearers. After this, their credulity will
+not be strained. They can say that there was probably
+quite a storm, some rain, to an extent that rendered it
+necessary for Noah and his family--his dogs, cats,
+and chickens--to get in a boat. This would not be
+unreasonable. The same thing happens almost every
+year on the shores of great rivers, and consequently
+the story of the flood is an exceedingly reasonable
+one.
+
+Mr. Talmage also endeavors to account for the
+miraculous collection of the animals in the ark by
+the universal instinct to get out of the rain. There
+are at least two objections to this: 1. The animals
+went into the ark before the rain commenced; 2. I
+
+34
+
+have never noticed any great desire on the part of
+ducks, geese, and loons to get out of the water. Mr.
+Talmage must have been misled by a line from an old
+nursery book that says: "And the little fishes got
+"under the bridge to keep out of the rain." He tells
+us that Noah described what he saw. He is the first
+theologian who claims that Genesis was written by
+Noah, or that Noah wrote any account of the flood.
+Most Christians insist that the account of the flood
+was written by Moses, and that he was inspired to
+write it. Of course, it will not do for me to say that
+Mr. Talmage has misrepresented the facts.
+
+_Question_. You are also charged with misrepresen-
+tation in your statement as to where the ark at last
+rested. It is claimed by Mr. Talmage that there is
+nothing in the Bible to show that the ark rested on
+the highest mountains.
+
+_Answer_. Of course I have no knowledge as to
+where the ark really came to anchor, but after it struck
+bottom, we are told that a dove was sent out, and
+that the dove found no place whereon to rest her
+foot. If the ark touched ground in the low country,
+surely the mountains were out of water, and an or-
+dinary mountain furnishes, as a rule, space enough
+
+35
+
+for a dove's foot. We must infer that the ark rested
+on the only land then above water, or near enough
+above water to strike the keel of Noah's boat. Mount
+Ararat is about seventeen thousand feet high; so I
+take it that the top of that mountain was where Noah
+ran aground--otherwise, the account means nothing.
+
+Here Mr. Talmage again shows his tendency to
+belittle the miracles of the Bible. I am astonished
+that he should doubt the power of God to keep an
+ark on a mountain seventeen thousand feet high.
+He could have changed the climate for that occasion.
+He could have made all the rocks and glaciers pro-
+duce wheat and corn in abundance. Certainly God,
+who could overwhelm a world with a flood, had the
+power to change every law and fact in nature.
+
+I am surprised that Mr. Talmage is not willing to
+believe the story as it is told. What right has he to
+question the statements of an inspired writer? Why
+should he set up his judgment against the Websters
+and Jacksons? Is it not infinitely impudent in him
+to contrast his penny-dip with the sun of inspiration?
+What right has he to any opinion upon the subject?
+He must take the Bible as it reads. He should
+remember that the greater the miracle the greater
+should be his faith.
+
+36
+
+_Question_. You do not seem to have any great
+opinion of the chemical, geological, and agricultural
+views expressed by Mr. Talmage?
+
+_Answer_. You must remember that Mr. Talmage
+has a certain thing to defend. He takes the Bible as
+actually true, and with the Bible as his standard, he
+compares and measures all sciences. He does not
+study geology to find whether the Mosaic account is
+true, but he reads the Mosaic account for the purpose
+of showing that geology can not be depended upon.
+His idea that "one day is as a thousand years with
+"God," and that therefore the "days" mentioned in the
+Mosaic account are not days of twenty-four hours, but
+long periods, is contradicted by the Bible itself. The
+great reason given for keeping the Sabbath day is, that
+"God rested on the seventh day and was refreshed."
+Now, it does not say that he rested on the "seventh
+"period," or the "seventh good--while," or the
+"seventh long-time," but on the "seventh day." In
+imitation of this example we are also to rest--not on
+the seventh good-while, but on the seventh day.
+Nothing delights the average minister more than to
+find that a passage of Scripture is capable of several
+interpretations. Nothing in the inspired book is so
+
+37
+
+dangerous as accuracy. If the holy writer uses
+general terms, an ingenious theologian can harmonize
+a seemingly preposterous statement with the most
+obdurate fact. An "inspired" book should contain
+neither statistics nor dates--as few names as possible,
+and not one word about geology or astronomy. Mr.
+Talmage is doing the best he can to uphold the fables
+of the Jews. They are the foundation of his faith.
+He believes in the water of the past and the fire of the
+future--in the God of flood and flame--the eternal
+torturer of his helpless children.
+
+It is exceedingly unfortunate that Mr. Talmage does
+not appreciate the importance of good manners, that
+he does not rightly estimate the convincing power of
+kindness and good nature. It is unfortunate that a
+Christian, believing in universal forgiveness, should
+exhibit so much of the spirit of detraction, that he
+should run so easily and naturally into epithets, and
+that he should mistake vituperation for logic. Thou-
+sands of people, knowing but little of the mysteries of
+Christianity--never having studied theology,--may
+become prejudiced against the church, and doubt the
+divine origin of a religion whose defenders seem to
+rely, at least to a great degree, upon malignant per-
+sonalities. Mr. Talmage should remember that in a
+
+38
+
+discussion of this kind, he is supposed to represent a
+being of infinite wisdom and goodness. Surely, the
+representative of the infinite can afford to be candid,
+can afford to be kind. When he contemplates the
+condition of a fellow-being destitute of religion, a
+fellow-being now travelling the thorny path to eternal
+fire, he should be filled with pity instead of hate.
+Instead of deforming his mouth with scorn, his eyes
+should be filled with tears. He should take into
+consideration the vast difference between an infidel
+and a minister of the gospel,--knowing, as he does,
+that a crown of glory has been prepared for the
+minister, and that flames are waiting for the soul
+of the unbeliever. He should bear with philosophic
+fortitude the apparent success of the skeptic, for a
+few days in this brief life, since he knows that in a
+little while the question will be eternally settled in
+his favor, and that the humiliation of a day is as
+nothing compared with the victory of eternity. In
+this world, the skeptic appears to have the best
+of the argument; logic seems to be on the side
+of blasphemy; common sense apparently goes hand
+in hand with infidelity, and the few things we are
+absolutely certain of, seem inconsistent with the
+Christian creeds.
+
+39
+
+This, however, as Mr. Talmage well knows, is but
+apparent. God has arranged the world in this way
+for the purpose of testing the Christian's faith.
+Beyond all these facts, beyond logic, beyond reason,
+Mr. Talmage, by the light of faith, clearly sees the
+eternal truth. This clearness of vision should give
+him the serenity of candor and the kindness born of
+absolute knowledge. He, being a child of the light,
+should not expect the perfect from the children of
+darkness. He should not judge Humboldt and
+Wesley by the same standard. He should remember
+that Wesley was especially set apart and illuminated
+by divine wisdom, while Humboldt was left to grope
+in the shadows of nature. He should also remember
+that ministers are not like other people. They have
+been "called." They have been "chosen" by infinite
+wisdom. They have been "set apart," and they
+have bread to eat that we know not of. While
+other people are forced to pursue the difficult paths
+of investigation, they fly with the wings of faith.
+
+Mr. Talmage is perfectly aware of the advantages
+he enjoys, and yet he deems it dangerous to be fair.
+This, in my judgment, is his mistake. If he cannot
+easily point out the absurdities and contradictions in
+infidel lectures, surely God would never have selected
+
+40
+
+him for that task. We cannot believe that imperfect
+instruments would be chosen by infinite wisdom.
+Certain lambs have been entrusted to the care of Mr.
+Talmage, the shepherd. Certainly God would not
+select a shepherd unable to cope with an average
+wolf. Such a shepherd is only the appearance of
+protection. When the wolf is not there, he is a
+useless expense, and when the wolf comes, he goes.
+I cannot believe that God would select a shepherd
+of that kind. Neither can the shepherd justify his
+selection by abusing the wolf when out of sight.
+The fear ought to be on the other side. A divinely
+appointed shepherd ought to be able to convince his
+sheep that a wolf is a dangerous animal, and ought
+to be able to give his reasons. It may be that the
+shepherd has a certain interest in exaggerating the
+cruelty and ferocity of the wolf, and even the number
+of the wolves. Should it turn out that the wolves
+exist only in the imagination of the shepherd, the
+sheep might refuse to pay the salary of their pro-
+tector. It will, however, be hard to calculate the
+extent to which the sheep will lose confidence in a
+shepherd who has not even the courage to state the
+facts about the wolf. But what must be the result
+when the sheep find that the supposed wolf is, in
+
+41
+
+fact, their friend, and that he is endeavoring to rescue
+them from the exactions of the pretended shepherd,
+who creates, by falsehood, the fear on which he
+lives?
+
+
+
+
+SECOND INTERVIEW.
+
+
+_Por. Why, man, what's the matter? Don't tear
+your hair.
+
+Sir Hugh. I have been beaten in a discussion,
+overwhelmed and humiliated.
+
+Por. Why didn't you call your adversary a fool?
+
+Sir Hugh. My God! I forgot it!_
+
+_Question_. I want to ask you a few questions
+about the second sermon of Mr. Talmage;
+have you read it, and what do you think of it?
+
+_Answer_. The text taken by the reverend gentle-
+man is an insult, and was probably intended as such:
+"The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God."
+Mr. Talmage seeks to apply this text to any one
+who denies that the Jehovah of the Jews was and is
+the infinite and eternal Creator of all. He is per-
+fectly satisfied that any man who differs with him on
+this question is a "fool," and he has the Christian
+forbearance and kindness to say so. I presume he
+
+46
+
+is honest in this opinion, and no doubt regards Bruno,
+Spinoza and Humboldt as driveling imbeciles. He
+entertains the same opinion of some of the greatest,
+wisest and best of Greece and Rome.
+
+No man is fitted to reason upon this question who
+has not the intelligence to see the difficulties in all
+theories. No man has yet evolved a theory that
+satisfactorily accounts for all that is. No matter
+what his opinion may be, he is beset by a thousand
+difficulties, and innumerable things insist upon an
+explanation. The best that any man can do is to
+take that theory which to his mind presents the
+fewest difficulties. Mr. Talmage has been educated
+in a certain way--has a brain of a certain quantity,
+quality and form--and accepts, in spite it may be,
+of himself, a certain theory. Others, formed differ-
+ently, having lived under different circumstances,
+cannot accept the Talmagian view, and thereupon he
+denounces them as fools. In this he follows the
+example of David the murderer; of David, who
+advised one of his children to assassinate another;
+of David, whose last words were those of hate and
+crime. Mr. Talmage insists that it takes no especial
+brain to reason out a "design" in Nature, and in a
+moment afterward says that "when the world slew
+
+47
+
+"Jesus, it showed what it would do with the eternal
+"God, if once it could get its hands on Him." Why
+should a God of infinite wisdom create people who
+would gladly murder their Creator? Was there any
+particular "design" in that? Does the existence
+of such people conclusively prove the existence of a
+good Designer? It seems to me--and I take it that
+my thought is natural, as I have only been born
+once--that an infinitely wise and good God would
+naturally create good people, and if he has not, cer-
+tainly the fault is his. The God of Mr. Talmage
+knew, when he created Guiteau, that he would
+assassinate Garfield. Why did he create him? Did
+he want Garfield assassinated? Will somebody be
+kind enough to show the "design" in this trans-
+action? Is it possible to see "design" in earth-
+quakes, in volcanoes, in pestilence, in famine, in
+ruthless and relentless war? Can we find "design" in
+the fact that every animal lives upon some other--
+that every drop of every sea is a battlefield where
+the strong devour the weak? Over the precipice
+of cruelty rolls a perpetual Niagara of blood. Is
+there "design" in this? Why should a good God
+people a world with men capable of burning their
+fellow-men--and capable of burning the greatest and
+
+48
+
+best? Why does a good God permit these things?
+It is said of Christ that he was infinitely kind and
+generous, infinitely merciful, because when on earth
+he cured the sick, the lame and blind. Has he not
+as much power now as he had then? If he was and
+is the God of all worlds, why does he not now give
+back to the widow her son? Why does he with-
+hold light from the eyes of the blind? And why
+does one who had the power miraculously to feed
+thousands, allow millions to die for want of food?
+Did Christ only have pity when he was part human?
+Are we indebted for his kindness to the flesh that
+clothed his spirit? Where is he now? Where has he
+been through all the centuries of slavery and crime?
+If this universe was "designed," then all that
+happens was "designed." If a man constructs an
+engine, the boiler of which explodes, we say either
+that he did not know the strength of his materials, or
+that he was reckless of human life. If an infinite being
+should construct a weak or imperfect machine, he must
+be held accountable for all that happens. He cannot
+be permitted to say that he did not know the strength
+of the materials. He is directly and absolutely re-
+sponsible. So, if this world was designed by a being
+of infinite power and wisdom, he is responsible for
+
+49
+
+the result of that design. My position is this: I do
+not know. But there are so many objections to the
+personal-God theory, that it is impossible for me to
+accept it. I prefer to say that the universe is all the
+God there is. I prefer to make no being responsible.
+I prefer to say: If the naked are clothed, man
+must clothe them; if the hungry are fed, man must
+feed them. I prefer to rely upon human endeavor,
+upon human intelligence, upon the heart and brain
+of man. There is no evidence that God has ever
+interfered in the affairs of man. The hand of earth
+is stretched uselessly toward heaven. From the
+clouds there comes no help. In vain the shipwrecked
+cry to God. In vain the imprisoned ask for liberty
+and light--the world moves on, and the heavens are
+deaf and dumb and blind. The frost freezes, the fire
+burns, slander smites, the wrong triumphs, the good
+suffer, and prayer dies upon the lips of faith.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with being
+"the champion blasphemer of America"--what do
+you understand blasphemy to be?
+
+_Answer_. Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by su-
+perstition upon common sense. Whoever investi-
+gates a religion as he would any department of
+
+50
+
+science, is called a blasphemer. Whoever contradicts
+a priest, whoever has the impudence to use his own
+reason, whoever is brave enough to express his
+honest thought, is a blasphemer in the eyes of the
+religionist. When a missionary speaks slightingly of
+the wooden god of a savage, the savage regards him
+as a blasphemer. To laugh at the pretensions of
+Mohammed in Constantinople is blasphemy. To say
+in St. Petersburg that Mohammed was a prophet of
+God is also blasphemy. There was a time when to
+acknowledge the divinity of Christ in Jerusalem was
+blasphemy. To deny his divinity is now blasphemy
+in New York. Blasphemy is to a considerable extent
+a geographical question. It depends not only on what
+you say, but where you are when you say it. Blas-
+phemy is what the old calls the new,--what last
+year's leaf says to this year's bud. The founder of
+every religion was a blasphemer. The Jews so re-
+garded Christ, and the Athenians had the same
+opinion of Socrates. Catholics have always looked
+upon Protestants as blasphemers, and Protestants have
+always held the same generous opinion of Catholics.
+To deny that Mary is the Mother of God is blas-
+phemy. To say that she is the Mother of God is
+blasphemy. Some savages think that a dried snake-
+
+51
+
+skin stuffed with leaves is sacred, and he who thinks
+otherwise is a blasphemer. It was once blasphemy
+to laugh at Diana, of the Ephesians. Many people
+think that it is blasphemous to tell your real opinion
+of the Jewish Jehovah. Others imagine that words
+can be printed upon paper, and the paper bound into
+a book covered with sheepskin, and that the book is
+sacred, and that to question its sacredness is blas-
+phemy. Blasphemy is also a crime against God, but
+nothing can be more absurd than a crime against
+God. If God is infinite, you cannot injure him. You
+cannot commit a crime against any being that you
+cannot injure. Of course, the infinite cannot be in-
+jured. Man is a conditioned being. By changing
+his conditions, his surroundings, you can injure him;
+but if God is infinite, he is conditionless. If he is
+conditionless, he cannot by any possibility be injured.
+You can neither increase, nor decrease, the well-being
+of the infinite. Consequently, a crime against God
+is a demonstrated impossibility. The cry of blasphemy
+means only that the argument of the blasphemer can-
+not be answered. The sleight-of-hand performer,
+when some one tries to raise the curtain behind which
+he operates, cries "blasphemer!" The priest, find-
+ing that he has been attacked by common sense,--
+
+52
+
+by a fact,--resorts to the same cry. Blasphemy is the
+black flag of theology, and it means: No argument
+and no quarter! It is an appeal to prejudice, to
+passions, to ignorance. It is the last resort of a
+defeated priest. Blasphemy marks the point where
+argument stops and slander begins. In old times, it
+was the signal for throwing stones, for gathering
+fagots and for tearing flesh; now it means falsehood
+and calumny.
+
+_Question_. Then you think that there is no such
+thing as the crime of blasphemy, and that no such
+offence can be committed?
+
+_Answer_. Any one who knowingly speaks in favor
+of injustice is a blasphemer. Whoever wishes to
+destroy liberty of thought,--the honest expression of
+ideas,--is a blasphemer. Whoever is willing to malign
+his neighbor, simply because he differs with him upon
+a subject about which neither of them knows anything
+for certain, is a blasphemer. If a crime can be com-
+mitted against God, he commits it who imputes to
+God the commission of crime. The man who says
+that God ordered the assassination of women and
+babes, that he gave maidens to satisfy the lust of
+soldiers, that he enslaved his own children,--that man
+
+53
+
+is a blasphemer. In my judgment, it would be far
+better to deny the existence of God entirely. It
+seems to me that every man ought to give his honest
+opinion. No man should suppose that any infinite
+God requires him to tell as truth that which he knows
+nothing about.
+
+Mr. Talmage, in order to make a point against
+infidelity, states from his pulpit that I am in favor of
+poisoning the minds of children by the circulation of
+immoral books. The statement is entirely false. He
+ought to have known that I withdrew from the Liberal
+League upon the very question whether the law should
+be repealed or modified. I favored a modification
+of that law, so that books and papers could not be
+thrown from the mails simply because they were
+"infidel."
+
+I was and am in favor of the destruction of
+every immoral book in the world. I was and am
+in favor, not only of the law against the circulation
+of such filth, but want it executed to the letter in every
+State of this Union. Long before he made that state-
+ment, I had introduced a resolution to that effect, and
+supported the resolution in a speech. Notwithstand-
+ing these facts, hundreds of clergymen have made
+haste to tell the exact opposite of the truth. This
+
+54
+
+they have done in the name of Christianity, under the
+pretence of pleasing their God. In my judgment, it
+is far better to tell your honest opinions, even upon
+the subject of theology, than to knowingly tell a false-
+hood about a fellow-man. Mr. Talmage may have
+been ignorant of the truth. He may have been misled
+by other ministers, and for his benefit I make this ex-
+planation. I wanted the laws modified so that bigotry
+could not interfere with the literature of intelligence;
+but I did not want, in any way, to shield the writers or
+publishers of immoral books. Upon this subject I
+used, at the last meeting of the Liberal League that
+I attended, the following language:
+
+"But there is a distinction wide as the Mississippi,
+"yes, wider than the Atlantic, wider than all oceans,
+"between the literature of immorality and the litera-
+"ture of free thought. One is a crawling, slimy lizard,
+"and the other an angel with wings of light. Let us
+"draw this distinction. Let us understand ourselves.
+"Do not make the wholesale statement that all these
+"laws ought to be repealed. They ought not to be
+"repealed. Some of them are good, and the law
+"against sending instruments of vice through the
+"mails is good. The law against sending obscene
+"pictures and books is good. The law against send-
+
+55
+
+"ing bogus diplomas through the mails, to allow a
+"lot of ignorant hyenas to prey upon the sick people
+"of the world, is a good law. The law against rascals
+"who are getting up bogus lotteries, and sending their
+"circulars in the mails is a good law. You know, as
+"well as I, that there are certain books not fit to go
+"through the mails. You know that. You know there
+"are certain pictures not fit to be transmitted, not fit
+"to be delivered to any human being. When these
+"books and pictures come into the control of the
+"United States, I say, burn them up! And when any
+"man has been indicted who has been trying to make
+"money by pandering to the lowest passions in the
+"human breast, then I say, prosecute him! let the
+"law take its course."
+
+I can hardly convince myself that when Mr.
+Talmage made the charge, he was acquainted with
+the facts. It seems incredible that any man, pre-
+tending to be governed by the law of common
+honesty, could make a charge like this knowing
+it to be untrue. Under no circumstances, would
+I charge Mr. Talmage with being an infamous
+man, unless the evidence was complete and over-
+whelming. Even then, I should hesitate long before
+making the charge. The side I take on theological
+
+56
+
+questions does not render a resort to slander or
+calumny a necessity. If Mr. Talmage is an honor-
+able man, he will take back the statement he has
+made. Even if there is a God, I hardly think that
+he will reward one of his children for maligning
+another; and to one who has told falsehoods about
+"infidels," that having been his only virtue, I doubt
+whether he will say: "Well done good and faithful
+"servant."
+
+_Question_. What have you to say to the charge
+that you are endeavoring to "assassinate God,"
+and that you are "far worse than the man who at-
+"tempts to kill his father, or his mother, or his sister,
+"or his brother"?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I think that is about as reason-
+able as anything he says. No one wishes, so far as I
+know, to assassinate God. The idea of assassinating
+an infinite being is of course infinitely absurd. One
+would think Mr. Talmage had lost his reason! And
+yet this man stands at the head of the Presbyterian
+clergy. It is for this reason that I answer him. He
+is the only Presbyterian minister in the United
+States, so far as I know, able to draw an audience.
+He is, without doubt, the leader of that denomination.
+
+57
+
+He is orthodox and conservative. He believes im-
+plicitly in the "Five Points" of Calvin, and says
+nothing simply for the purpose of attracting attention.
+He believes that God damns a man for his own glory;
+that he sends babes to hell to establish his mercy,
+and that he filled the world with disease and crime
+simply to demonstrate his wisdom. He believes that
+billions of years before the earth was, God had made
+up his mind as to the exact number that he would
+eternally damn, and had counted his saints. This
+doctrine he calls "glad tidings of great joy." He
+really believes that every man who is true to himself
+is waging war against God; that every infidel is a
+rebel; that every Freethinker is a traitor, and that
+only those are good subjects who have joined the
+Presbyterian Church, know the Shorter Catechism by
+heart, and subscribe liberally toward lifting the mort-
+gage on the Brooklyn Tabernacle. All the rest are
+endeavoring to assassinate God, plotting the murder
+of the Holy Ghost, and applauding the Jews for the
+crucifixion of Christ. If Mr. Talmage is correct in
+his views as to the power and wisdom of God, I
+imagine that his enemies at last will be overthrown,
+that the assassins and murderers will not succeed, and
+that the Infinite, with Mr. Talmage s assistance, will
+
+58
+
+finally triumph. If there is an infinite God, certainly
+he ought to have made man grand enough to have
+and express an opinion of his own. Is it possible
+that God can be gratified with the applause of moral
+cowards? Does he seek to enhance his glory by
+receiving the adulation of cringing slaves? Is God
+satisfied with the adoration of the frightened?
+
+_Question_. You notice that Mr. Talmage finds
+nearly all the inventions of modern times mentioned
+in the Bible?
+
+_Answer_: Yes; Mr. Talmage has made an ex-
+ceedingly important discovery. I admit that I am
+somewhat amazed at the wisdom of the ancients.
+This discovery has been made just in the nick of
+time. Millions of people were losing their respect
+for the Old Testament. They were beginning to
+think that there was some discrepancy between the
+prophecies of Ezekiel and Daniel and the latest devel-
+opments in physical science. Thousands of preachers
+were telling their flocks that the Bible is not a
+scientific book; that Joshua was not an inspired as-
+tronomer, that God never enlightened Moses about
+geology, and that Ezekiel did not understand the
+entire art of cookery. These admissions caused
+
+59
+
+some young people to suspect that the Bible, after all,
+was not inspired; that the prophets of antiquity did
+not know as much as the discoverers of to-day. The
+Bible was falling into disrepute. Mr. Talmage has
+rushed to the rescue. He shows, and shows conclu-
+sively as anything can be shown from the Bible, that
+Job understood all the laws of light thousands of
+years before Newton lived; that he anticipated the
+discoveries of Descartes, Huxley and Tyndall; that
+he was familiar with the telegraph and telephone;
+that Morse, Bell and Edison simply put his discov-
+eries in successful operation; that Nahum was, in
+fact, a master-mechanic; that he understood perfectly
+the modern railway and described it so accurately
+that Trevethick, Foster and Stephenson had no diffi-
+culty in constructing a locomotive. He also has
+discovered that Job was well acquainted with the
+trade winds, and understood the mysterious currents,
+tides and pulses of the sea; that Lieutenant Maury
+was a plagiarist; that Humboldt was simply a biblical
+student. He finds that Isaiah and Solomon were
+far in advance of Galileo, Morse, Meyer and Watt.
+This is a discovery wholly unexpected to me. If
+Mr. Talmage is right, I am satisfied the Bible is an
+inspired book. If it shall turn out that Joshua was
+
+60
+
+superior to Laplace, that Moses knew more about
+geology than Humboldt, that Job as a scientist was
+the superior of Kepler, that Isaiah knew more than
+Copernicus, and that even the minor prophets ex-
+celled the inventors and discoverers of our time--
+then I will admit that infidelity must become speech-
+less forever. Until I read this sermon, I had never
+even suspected that the inventions of modern times
+were known to the ancient Jews. I never supposed
+that Nahum knew the least thing about railroads, or
+that Job would have known a telegraph if he had seen
+it. I never supposed that Joshua comprehended the
+three laws of Kepler. Of course I have not read
+the Old Testament with as much care as some other
+people have, and when I did read it, I was not looking
+for inventions and discoveries. I had been told so
+often that the Bible was no authority upon scientific
+questions, that I was lulled into a state of lethargy.
+What is amazing to me is, that so many men did
+read it without getting the slightest hint of the
+smallest invention. To think that the Jews read that
+book for hundreds and hundreds of years, and yet
+went to their graves without the slightest notion of
+astronomy, or geology, of railroads, telegraphs, or
+steamboats! And then to think that the early fathers
+
+61
+
+made it the study of their lives and died without in-
+venting anything! I am astonished that Mr. Talmage
+himself does not figure in the records of the Patent
+Office. I cannot account for this, except upon the
+supposition that he is too honest to infringe on the
+patents of the patriarchs. After this, I shall read
+the Old Testament with more care.
+
+_Question_. Do you see that Mr. Talmage endeav-
+ors to convict you of great ignorance in not knowing
+that the word translated "rib" should have been
+translated "side," and that Eve, after all, was not
+made out of a rib, but out of Adam's side?
+
+_Answer_. I may have been misled by taking the
+Bible as it is translated. The Bible account is simply
+this: "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall
+"upon Adam, and he slept. And he took one of
+"his ribs and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
+"and the rib which the Lord God had taken from
+"man made he a woman, and brought her unto the
+"man. And Adam said: This is now bone of my
+"bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called
+"woman, because she was taken out of man." If
+Mr. Talmage is right, then the account should be as
+follows: "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep
+
+62
+
+"to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one
+"of his sides, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
+"and the side which the Lord God had taken from
+"man made he a woman, and brought her unto the
+"man. And Adam said: This is now side of my
+"side, and flesh of my flesh." I do not see that the
+story is made any better by using the word "side"
+instead of "rib." It would be just as hard for God
+to make a woman out of a man's side as out of a
+rib. Mr. Talmage ought not to question the power
+of God to make a woman out of a bone, and he must
+recollect that the less the material the greater the
+miracle.
+
+There are two accounts of the creation of man,
+in Genesis, the first being in the twenty-first verse
+of the first chapter and the second being in the
+twenty-first and twenty-second verses of the sec-
+ond chapter.
+
+According to the second account, "God formed
+"man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into
+"his nostrils the breath of life." And after this,
+"God planted a garden eastward in Eden and put
+"the man" in this garden. After this, "He made
+"every tree to grow that was good for food and
+"pleasant to the sight," and, in addition, "the tree
+
+63
+
+"of life in the midst of the garden," beside "the tree
+"of the knowledge of good and evil." And he "put
+"the man in the garden to dress it and keep it,"
+telling him that he might eat of everything he saw
+except of "the tree of the knowledge of good and
+"evil."
+
+After this, God having noticed that it "was not
+"good for man to be alone, formed out of the ground
+"every beast of the field, every fowl of the air, and
+"brought them to Adam to see what he would call
+"them, and Adam gave names to all cattle, and to
+"the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field.
+"But for Adam there was not found an helpmeet for
+"him."
+
+We are not told how Adam learned the language,
+or how he understood what God said. I can hardly
+believe that any man can be created with the know-
+ledge of a language. Education cannot be ready
+made and stuffed into a brain. Each person must
+learn a language for himself. Yet in this account we
+find a language ready made for man's use. And not
+only man was enabled to speak, but a serpent also
+has the power of speech, and the woman holds a
+conversation with this animal and with her husband;
+and yet no account is given of how any language was
+
+64
+
+learned. God is described as walking in the garden
+in the cool of the day, speaking like a man--holding
+conversations with the man and woman, and occa-
+sionally addressing the serpent.
+
+In the nursery rhymes of the world there is
+nothing more childish than this "inspired" account
+of the creation of man and woman.
+
+The early fathers of the church held that woman
+was inferior to man, because man was not made for
+woman, but woman for man; because Adam was
+made first and Eve afterward. They had not the
+gallantry of Robert Burns, who accounted for the
+beauty of woman from the fact that God practiced
+on man first, and then gave woman the benefit of
+his experience. Think, in this age of the world,
+of a well-educated, intelligent gentleman telling his
+little child that about six thousand years ago a
+mysterious being called God made the world out of
+his "omnipotence;" then made a man out of some
+dust which he is supposed to have moulded into
+form; that he put this man in a garden for the pur-
+pose of keeping the trees trimmed; that after a little
+while he noticed that the man seemed lonesome, not
+particularly happy, almost homesick; that then it oc-
+curred to this God, that it would be a good thing for
+
+65
+
+the man to have some company, somebody to help
+him trim the trees, to talk to him and cheer him up
+on rainy days; that, thereupon, this God caused
+a deep sleep to fall on the man, took a knife, or a
+long, sharp piece of "omnipotence," and took out one
+of the man's sides, or a rib, and of that made a
+woman; that then this man and woman got along
+real well till a snake got into the garden and induced
+the woman to eat of the tree of the knowledge of
+good and evil; that the woman got the man to take
+a bite; that afterwards both of them were detected by
+God, who was walking around in the cool of the
+evening, and thereupon they were turned out of the
+garden, lest they should put forth their hands and eat
+of the tree of life, and live forever.
+
+This foolish story has been regarded as the sacred,
+inspired truth; as an account substantially written by
+God himself; and thousands and millions of people
+have supposed it necessary to believe this childish
+falsehood, in order to save their souls. Nothing
+more laughable can be found in the fairy tales and
+folk-lore of savages. Yet this is defended by the
+leading Presbyterian divine, and those who fail to
+believe in the truth of this story are called "brazen
+"faced fools," "deicides," and "blasphemers."
+
+66
+
+By this story woman in all Christian countries was
+degraded. She was considered too impure to preach
+the gospel, too impure to distribute the sacramental
+bread, too impure to hand about the sacred wine,
+too impure to step within the "holy of holies," in the
+Catholic Churches, too impure to be touched by a
+priest. Unmarried men were considered purer than
+husbands and fathers. Nuns were regarded as su-
+perior to mothers, a monastery holier than a home, a
+nunnery nearer sacred than the cradle. And through
+all these years it has been thought better to love
+God than to love man, better to love God than to
+love your wife and children, better to worship an
+imaginary deity than to help your fellow-men.
+
+I regard the rights of men and women equal. In
+Love's fair realm, husband and wife are king and
+queen, sceptered and crowned alike, and seated on
+the self-same throne.
+
+_Question_. Do you still insist that the Old Testa-
+ment upholds polygamy? Mr. Talmage denies this
+charge, and shows how terribly God punished those
+who were not satisfied with one wife.
+
+_Answer_. I see nothing in what Mr. Talmage has
+said calculated to change my opinion. It has been
+
+67
+
+admitted by thousands of theologians that the Old
+Testament upholds polygamy. Mr. Talmage is
+among the first to deny it. It will not do to say that
+David was punished for the crime of polygamy
+or concubinage. He was "a man after God's own
+"heart." He was made a king. He was a successful
+general, and his blood is said to have flowed in the
+veins of God. Solomon was, according to the ac-
+count, enriched with wisdom above all human beings.
+Was that a punishment for having had so many
+wives? Was Abraham pursued by the justice of
+God because of the crime against Hagar, or for the
+crime against his own wife? The verse quoted by
+Mr. Talmage to show that God was opposed to
+polygamy, namely, the eighteenth verse of the eight-
+eenth chapter of Leviticus, cannot by any ingenuity
+be tortured into a command against polygamy. The
+most that can be possibly said of it is, that you shall
+not marry the sister of your wife, while your wife is
+living. Yet this passage is quoted by Mr. Talmage
+as "a thunder of prohibition against having more
+"than one wife." In the twentieth chapter of
+Leviticus it is enacted: "That if a man take a wife
+"and her mother they shall be burned with fire." A
+commandment like this shows that he might take his
+
+68
+
+wife and somebody else's mother. These passages
+have nothing to do with polygamy. They show
+whom you may marry, not how many; and there is
+not in Leviticus a solitary word against polygamy--
+not one. Nor is there such a word in Genesis, nor
+Exodus, nor in the entire Pentateuch--not one
+word. These books are filled with the most minute
+directions about killing sheep, and goats and doves;
+about making clothes for priests, about fashioning
+tongs and snuffers; and yet, they contain not one
+word against polygamy. It never occurred to the in-
+spired writers that polygamy was a crime. Polygamy
+was accepted as a matter of course. Women were
+simple property.
+
+Mr. Talmage, however, insists that, although God
+was against polygamy, he permitted it, and at the
+same time threw his moral influence against it.
+Upon this subject he says: "No doubt God per-
+"mitted polygamy to continue for sometime, just
+"as he permits murder and arson, theft and gam-
+"bling to-day to continue, although he is against
+"them." If God is the author of the Ten Com-
+mandments, he prohibited murder and theft, but
+he said nothing about polygamy. If he was so
+terribly against that crime, why did he forget to
+
+69
+
+mention it? Was there not room enough on the
+tables of stone for just one word on this subject?
+Had he no time to give a commandment against
+slavery? Mr. Talmage of course insists that God
+had to deal with these things gradually, his idea being
+that if God had made a commandment against them all
+at once, the Jews would have had nothing more to do
+with him.
+
+For instance: if we wanted to break cannibals
+of eating missionaries, we should not tell them all
+at once that it was wrong, that it was wicked, to
+eat missionaries raw; we should induce them first
+to cook the missionaries, and gradually wean them
+from raw flesh. This would be the first great step.
+We would stew the missionaries, and after a time
+put a little mutton in the stew, not enough to excite
+the suspicion of the cannibal, but just enough to get
+him in the habit of eating mutton without knowing it.
+Day after day we would put in more mutton and less
+missionary, until finally, the cannibal would be perfectly
+satisfied with clear mutton. Then we would tell him
+that it was wrong to eat missionary. After the can-
+nibal got so that he liked mutton, and cared nothing
+for missionary, then it would be safe to have a law
+upon the subject.
+
+70
+
+Mr. Talmage insists that polygamy cannot exist
+among people who believe the Bible. In this he is
+mistaken. The Mormons all believe the Bible. There
+is not a single polygamist in Utah who does not insist
+upon the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments.
+
+The Rev. Mr. Newman, a kind of peripatetic consu-
+lar theologian, once had a discussion, I believe, with
+Elder Orson Pratt, at Salt Lake City, upon the question
+of polygamy. It is sufficient to say of this discussion
+that it is now circulated by the Mormons as a campaign
+document. The elder overwhelmed the parson.
+Passages of Scripture in favor of polygamy were
+quoted by the hundred. The lives of all the patriarchs
+were brought forward, and poor parson Newman was
+driven from the field. The truth is, the Jews at that
+time were much like our forefathers. They were
+barbarians, and many of their laws were unjust
+and cruel. Polygamy was the right of all; practiced,
+as a matter of fact, by the rich and powerful, and the
+rich and powerful were envied by the poor. In such
+esteem did the ancient Jews hold polygamy, that the
+number of Solomons wives was given, simply to en-
+hance his glory. My own opinion is, that Solomon
+had very few wives, and that polygamy was not
+general in Palestine. The country was too poor, and
+
+71
+
+Solomon, in all his glory was hardly able to support
+one wife. He was a poor barbarian king with a
+limited revenue, with a poor soil, with a sparse popu-
+lation, without art, without science and without power.
+He sustained about the same relation to other kings
+that Delaware does to other States. Mr. Talmage
+says that God persecuted Solomon, and yet, if he will
+turn to the twenty-second chapter of First Chronicles,
+he will find what God promised to Solomon. God,
+speaking to David, says: "Behold a son shall be born
+"to thee, who shall be a man of rest, and I will give him
+"rest from his enemies around about; for his name shall
+"be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness
+"unto Israel in his days. He shall build a house in my
+"name, and he shall be my son and I will be his father,
+"and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over
+"Israel forever." Did God keep his promise?
+
+So he tells us that David was persecuted by
+God, on account of his offences, and yet I find in
+the twenty-eighth verse of the twenty-ninth chapter
+of First Chronicles, the following account of the death
+of David: "And he died in a good old age, full of
+"days, riches and honor." Is this true?
+
+_Question_. What have you to say to the charge
+that you were mistaken in the number of years that
+
+72
+
+the Hebrews were in Egypt? Mr. Talmage says that
+they were there 430 years, instead of 215 years.
+
+_Answer_. If you will read the third chapter of
+Galatians, sixteenth and seventeenth verses, you will
+find that it was 430 years from the time God made the
+promise to Abraham to the giving of the law from
+Mount Sinai. The Hebrews did not go to Egypt for
+215 years after the promise was made to Abraham,
+and consequently did not remain in Egypt more than
+215 years. If Galatians is true, I am right.
+
+Strange that Mr. Talmage should belittle the mira-
+cles. The trouble with this defender of the faith is that
+he cares nothing for facts. He makes the strangest
+statements, and cares the least for proof, of any
+man I know. I can account for what he says of me
+only upon the supposition that he has not read my
+lectures. He may have been misled by the pirated
+editions; Persons have stolen my lectures, printed the
+same ones under various names, and filled them with
+mistakes and things I never said. Mr. C. P. Farrell,
+of Washington, is my only authorized publisher.
+Yet Mr. Talmage prefers to answer the mistakes of
+literary thieves, and charge their ignorance to me.
+
+_Question_. Did you ever attack the character of
+Queen Victoria, or did you draw any parallel between
+
+73
+
+her and George Eliot, calculated to depreciate the
+reputation of the Queen?
+
+_Answer_. I never said a word against Victoria.
+The fact is, I am not acquainted with her--never met
+her in my life, and know but little of her. I never
+happened to see her "in plain clothes, reading the
+"Bible to the poor in the lane,"--neither did I ever
+hear her sing. I most cheerfully admit that her
+reputation is good in the neighborhood where she
+resides. In one of my lectures I drew a parallel
+between George Eliot and Victoria. I was showing
+the difference between a woman who had won her
+position in the world of thought, and one who was
+queen by chance. This is what I said:
+
+"It no longer satisfies the ambition of a great man
+"to be a king or emperor. The last Napoleon was
+"not satisfied with being the Emperor of the French.
+"He was not satisfied with having a circlet of gold
+"about his head--he wanted some evidence that he
+"had something of value in his head. So he wrote
+"the life of Julius Caesar that he might become a
+"member of the French Academy. The emperors,
+"the kings, the popes, no longer tower above their
+"fellows. Compare King William with the philoso-
+"pher Haeckel. The king is one of the 'anointed
+
+74
+
+"'of the Most High'--as they claim--one upon
+"whose head has been poured the divine petroleum
+"of authority. Compare this king with Haeckel, who
+"towers an intellectual Colossus above the crowned
+"mediocrity. Compare George Eliot with Queen
+"Victoria. The queen is clothed in garments given
+"her by blind fortune and unreasoning chance, while
+"George Eliot wears robes of glory, woven in the
+"loom of her own genius. The world is beginning
+"to pay homage to intellect, to genius, to heart."
+I said not one word against Queen Victoria, and did
+not intend to even intimate that she was not an ex-
+cellent woman, wife and mother. I was simply trying
+to show that the world was getting great enough to
+place a genius above an accidental queen. Mr. Tal-
+mage, true to the fawning, cringing spirit of ortho-
+doxy, lauds the living queen and cruelly maligns the
+genius dead. He digs open the grave of George Eliot,
+and tries to stain the sacred dust of one who was the
+greatest woman England has produced. He calls her
+"an adultress." He attacks her because she was an
+atheist--because she abhorred Jehovah, denied the
+inspiration of the Bible, denied the dogma of eternal
+pain, and with all her heart despised the Presbyterian
+creed. He hates her because she was great and brave
+
+75
+
+and free--because she lived without "faith" and died
+without fear--because she dared to give her honest
+thought, and grandly bore the taunts and slanders of
+the Christian world.
+
+George Eliot tenderly carried in her heart the
+burdens of our race. She looked through pity's tears
+upon the faults and frailties of mankind. She knew
+the springs and seeds of thought and deed, and saw,
+with cloudless eyes, through all the winding ways of
+greed, ambition and deceit, where folly vainly plucks
+with thorn-pierced hands the fading flowers of selfish
+joy--the highway of eternal right. Whatever her
+relations may have been--no matter what I think, or
+others say, or how much all regret the one mistake in
+all her self-denying, loving life--I feel and know that
+in the court where her own conscience sat as judge, she
+stood acquitted--pure as light and stainless as a star.
+
+How appropriate here, with some slight change,
+the wondrously poetic and pathetic words of Laertes
+at Ophelia's grave:
+
+     _Leave her i' the earth;
+          And from her fair and unpolluted flesh
+          May violets spring!
+          I tell thee, churlish priest,
+          A ministering angel shall this woman be,
+          When thou liest howling!_
+
+I have no words with which to tell my loathing for
+a man who violates a noble woman's grave.
+
+76
+
+_Question_. Do you think that the spirit in which
+Mr. Talmage reviews your lectures is in accordance
+with the teachings of Christianity?
+
+_Answer_. I think that he talks like a true Presby-
+terian. If you will read the arguments of Calvin
+against the doctrines of Castalio and Servetus, you will
+see that Mr. Talmage follows closely in the footsteps
+of the founder of his church. Castalio was such a
+wicked and abandoned wretch, that he taught the
+innocence of honest error. He insisted that God
+would not eternally damn a man for being honestly
+mistaken. For the utterance of such blasphemous
+sentiments, abhorrent to every Christian mind, Calvin
+called him "a dog of Satan, and a child of hell." In
+short, he used the usual arguments. Castalio was
+banished, and died in exile. In the case of Servetus,
+after all the epithets had been exhausted, an appeal
+was made to the stake, and the blasphemous wretch
+was burned to ashes.
+
+If you will read the life of John Knox, you will find
+that Mr. Talmage is as orthodox in his methods of
+dealing with infidels, as he is in his creed. In my
+opinion, he would gladly treat unbelievers now, as the
+Puritans did the Quakers, as the Episcopalians did the
+Presbyterians, as the Presbyterians did the Baptists,
+
+77
+
+and as the Catholics have treated all heretics. Of
+course, all these sects will settle their differences in
+heaven. In the next world, they will laugh at the
+crimes they committed in this.
+
+The course pursued by Mr. Talmage is consistent.
+The pulpit cannot afford to abandon the weapons of
+falsehood and defamation. Candor sows the seeds of
+doubt. Fairness is weakness. The only way to suc-
+cessfully uphold the religion of universal love, is to
+denounce all Freethinkers as blasphemers, adulterers,
+and criminals. No matter how generous they may
+appear to be, no matter how fairly they may deal with
+their fellow-men, rest assured that they are actuated
+by the lowest and basest motives. Infidels who out-
+wardly live honest and virtuous lives, are inwardly
+vicious, virulent and vile. After all, morality is only
+a veneering. God is not deceived with the varnish of
+good works. We know that the natural man is
+totally depraved, and that until he has been regene-
+rated by the spirit of God, he is utterly incapable of a
+good action. The generosity of the unbeliever is, in
+fact, avarice. His honesty is only a form of larceny.
+His love is only hatred. No matter how sincerely
+he may love his wife,--how devoted he may be to
+his children,--no matter how ready he may be 'to
+
+78
+
+sacrifice even his life for the good of mankind, God,
+looking into his very heart, finds it only a den of
+hissing snakes, a lair of wild, ferocious beasts, a cage
+of unclean birds.
+
+The idea that God will save a man simply because
+he is honest and generous, is almost too preposterous
+for serious refutation. No man should rely upon his
+own goodness. He should plead the virtue of another.
+God, in his infinite justice, damns a good man on his
+own merits, and saves a bad man on the merits of
+another. The repentant murderer will be an angel
+of light, while his honest and unoffending victim will
+be a fiend in hell.
+
+A little while ago, a ship, disabled, was blown about
+the Atlantic for eighty days. Everything had been
+eaten. Nothing remained but bare decks and hunger.
+The crew consisted of Captain Kruger and nine others.
+For nine days, nothing had been eaten. The captain,
+taking a revolver in his hand, said: "Mates, some
+"one must die for the rest. I am willing to sacrifice
+"myself for you." One of his comrades grasped his
+hand, and implored him to wait one more day. The
+next morning, a sail was seen upon the horizon, and
+the dying men were rescued.
+
+To an ordinary man,--to one guided by the light of
+
+79
+
+reason,--it is perfectly clear that Captain Kruger was
+about to do an infinitely generous action. Yet Mr.
+Talmage will tell us that if that captain was not a
+Christian, and if he had sent the bullet crashing
+through his brain in order that his comrades might eat
+his body, and live to reach their wives and homes,--
+his soul, from that ship, would have gone, by dark
+and tortuous ways, down to the prison of eternal pain.
+
+Is it possible that Christ would eternally damn a
+man for doing exactly what Christ would have done,
+had he been infinitely generous, under the same cir-
+cumstances? Is not self-denial in a man as praise-
+worthy as in a God? Should a God be worshiped,
+and a man be damned, for the same action?
+
+According to Mr. Talmage, every soldier who fought
+for our country in the Revolutionary war, who was
+not a Christian, is now in hell. Every soldier, not a
+Christian, who carried the flag of his country to vic-
+tory--either upon the land or sea, in the war of 1812,
+is now in hell. Every soldier, not a Christian, who
+fought for the preservation of this Union,--to break
+the chains of slavery--to free four millions of people
+--to keep the whip from the naked back--every man
+who did this--every one who died at Andersonville
+and Libby, dreaming that his death would help make
+
+80
+
+the lives of others worth living, is now a lost and
+wretched soul. These men are now in the prison of
+God,--a prison in which the cruelties of Libby and
+Andersonville would be regarded as mercies,--in
+which famine would be a joy.
+
+
+
+
+THIRD INTERVIEW.
+
+_Sinner. Is God infinite in wisdom and power?
+
+Parson. He is.
+
+Sinner. Does he at all times know just what ought
+to be done?
+
+Parson. He does.
+
+Sinner. Does he always do just what ought to be
+done?
+
+Parson. He does.
+
+Sinner. Why do you pray to him?
+
+Parson. Because he is unchangeable._
+
+_Question_. I want to ask you a few questions
+about Mr. Talmage's third sermon. What do
+you think of it?
+
+_Answer_. I often ask myself the questions: Is
+there anything in the occupation of a minister,--any-
+thing in his surroundings, that makes him incapable
+of treating an opponent fairly, or decently? Is there
+anything in the doctrine of universal forgiveness that
+compels a man to speak of one who differs with him
+only in terms of disrespect and hatred? Is it neces-
+sary for those who profess to love the whole world,
+to hate the few they come in actual contact with?
+
+84
+
+Mr. Talmage, no doubt, professes to love all man-
+kind,--Jew and Gentile, Christian and Pagan. No
+doubt, he believes in the missionary effort, and thinks
+we should do all in our power to save the soul of the
+most benighted savage; and yet he shows anything
+but affection for the "heathen" at home. He loves
+the ones he never saw,--is real anxious for their wel-
+fare,--but for the ones he knows, he exhibits only
+scorn and hatred. In one breath, he tells us that
+Christ loves us, and in the next, that we are "wolves
+"and dogs." We are informed that Christ forgave
+even his murderers, but that now he hates an honest
+unbeliever with all his heart. He can forgive the
+ones who drove the nails into his hands and feet,--
+the one who thrust the spear through his quivering
+flesh,--but he cannot forgive the man who entertains
+an honest doubt about the "scheme of salvation."
+He regards the man who thinks, as a "mouth-maker
+"at heaven." Is it possible that Christ is less for-
+giving in heaven than he was in Jerusalem? Did he
+excuse murderers then, and does he damn thinkers
+now? Once he pitied even thieves; does he now
+abhor an intellectually honest man?
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage seems to think that you
+have no right to give your opinion about the Bible.
+
+85
+
+Do you think that laymen have the same right as
+ministers to examine the Scriptures?
+
+_Answer_. If God only made a revelation for
+preachers, of course we will have to depend on the
+preachers for information. But the preachers have
+made the mistake of showing the revelation. They
+ask us, the laymen, to read it, and certainly there is
+no use of reading it, unless we are permitted to think
+for ourselves while we read. If after reading the Bible
+we believe it to be true, we will say so, if we are
+honest. If we do not believe it, we will say so, if we
+are honest.
+
+But why should God be so particular about our
+believing the stories in his book? Why should God
+object to having his book examined? We do not
+have to call upon legislators, or courts, to protect
+Shakespeare from the derision of mankind. Was not
+God able to write a book that would command the
+love and admiration of the world? If the God of
+Mr. Talmage is infinite, he knew exactly how the
+stories of the Old Testament would strike a gentle-
+man of the nineteenth century. He knew that many
+would have their doubts,--that thousands of them--
+and I may say most of them,--would refuse to believe
+that a miracle had ever been performed.
+
+86
+
+Now, it seems to me that he should either have left
+the stories out, or furnished evidence enough to con-
+vince the world. According to Mr. Talmage, thou-
+sands of people are pouring over the Niagara of
+unbelief into the gulf of eternal pain. Why does not
+God furnish more evidence? Just in proportion as
+man has developed intellectually, he has demanded
+additional testimony. That which satisfies a barbarian,
+excites only the laughter of a civilized man. Cer-
+tainly God should furnish evidence in harmony with
+the spirit of the age. If God wrote his Bible for the
+average man, he should have written it in such a way
+that it would have carried conviction to the brain and
+heart of the average man; and he should have
+made no man in such a way that he could not, by any
+possibility, believe it. There certainly should be a
+harmony between the Bible and the human brain. If
+I do not believe the Bible, whose fault is it? Mr.
+Talmage insists that his God wrote the Bible for me.
+and made me. If this is true, the book and the man
+should agree. There is no sense in God writing
+a book for me and then making me in such a way that
+I cannot believe his book.
+
+_Question_. But Mr. Talmage says the reason why
+you hate the Bible is, that your soul is poisoned; that
+
+87
+
+the Bible "throws you into a rage precisely as pure
+"water brings on a paroxysm of hydrophobia."
+
+_Answer_. Is it because the mind of the infidel is
+poisoned, that he refuses to believe that an infinite
+God commanded the murder of mothers, maidens and
+babes? Is it because their minds are impure, that
+they refuse to believe that a good God established
+the institution of human slavery, or that he protected
+it when established? Is it because their minds are
+vile, that they refuse to believe that an infinite God
+established or protected polygamy? Is it a sure
+sign of an impure mind, when a man insists that
+God never waged wars of extermination against his
+helpless children? Does it show that a man has
+been entirely given over to the devil, because he
+refuses to believe that God ordered a father to sacri-
+fice his son? Does it show that a heart is entirely
+without mercy, simply because a man denies the
+justice of eternal pain?
+
+I denounce many parts of the Old Testament
+because they are infinitely repugnant to my sense
+of justice,--because they are bloody, brutal and in-
+famous,--because they uphold crime and destroy
+human liberty. It is impossible for me to imagine
+a greater monster than the God of the Old Testa-
+
+88
+
+ment. He is unworthy of my worship. He com-
+mands only my detestation, my execration, and my
+passionate hatred. The God who commanded the
+murder of children is an infamous fiend. The God
+who believed in polygamy, is worthy only of con-
+tempt. The God who established slavery should be
+hated by every free man. The Jehovah of the Jews
+was simply a barbarian, and the Old Testament is
+mostly the barbarous record of a barbarous people.
+
+If the Jehovah of the Jews is the real God, I do
+not wish to be his friend. From him I neither ask,
+nor expect, nor would I be willing to receive, even an
+eternity of joy. According to the Old Testament,
+he established a government,--a political state,--and
+yet, no civilized country to-day would re-enact these
+laws of God.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the explanation
+given by Mr. Talmage of the stopping of the sun and
+moon in the time of Joshua, in order that a battle
+might be completed?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, if there is an infinite God,
+he could have stopped the sun and moon. No one
+pretends to prescribe limits to the power of the
+infinite. Even admitting that such a being existed,
+the question whether he did stop the sun and moon,
+
+89
+
+or not, still remains. According to the account, these
+planets were stopped, in order that Joshua might con-
+tinue the pursuit of a routed enemy. I take it for
+granted that a being of infinite wisdom would not
+waste any force,--that he would not throw away any
+"omnipotence," and that, under ordinary circum-
+stances, he would husband his resources. I find that
+this spirit exists, at least in embryo, in Mr. Talmage.
+He proceeds to explain this miracle. He does not
+assert that the earth was stopped on its axis, but sug-
+gests "refraction" as a way out of the difficulty. Now,
+while the stopping of the earth on its axis accounts for
+the sun remaining in the same relative position, it does
+not account for the stoppage of the moon. The moon
+has a motion of its own, and even if the earth had been
+stopped in its rotary motion, the moon would have gone
+on. The Bible tells us that the moon was stopped. One
+would suppose that the sun would have given sufficient
+light for all practical purposes. Will Mr. Talmage be
+kind enough to explain the stoppage of the moon?
+Every one knows that the moon is somewhat obscure
+when the sun is in the midst of the heavens. The moon
+when compared with the sun at such a time, is much
+like one of the discourses of Mr. Talmage side by side
+with a chapter from Humboldt;--it is useless.
+
+90
+
+In the same chapter in which the account of the
+stoppage of the sun and moon is given, we find that
+God cast down from heaven great hailstones on
+Joshua's enemies. Did he get out of hailstones?
+Had he no "omnipotence" left? Was it necessary
+for him to stop the sun and moon and depend entirely
+upon the efforts of Joshua? Would not the force
+employed in stopping the rotary motion of the earth
+have been sufficient to destroy the enemy? Would
+not a millionth part of the force necessary to stop the
+moon, have pierced the enemy's centre, and rolled up
+both his flanks? A resort to lightning would have
+been, in my judgment, much more economical and
+rather more effective. If he had simply opened the
+earth, and swallowed them, as he did Korah and his
+company, it would have been a vast saving of
+"omnipotent" muscle. Yet, the foremost orthodox
+minister of the Presbyterian Church,--the one who
+calls all unbelievers "wolves and dogs," and "brazen
+"fools," in his effort to account for this miracle, is
+driven to the subterfuge of an "optical illusion."
+We are seriously informed that "God probably
+"changed the nature of the air," and performed this
+feat of ledgerdemain through the instrumentality of
+"refraction." It seems to me it would have been fully
+
+91
+
+as easy to have changed the nature of the air breathed
+by the enemy, so that it would not have supported
+life. He could have accomplished this by changing
+only a little air, in that vicinity; whereas, according
+to the Talmagian view, he changed the atmosphere
+of the world. Or, a small "local flood" might have
+done the work. The optical illusion and refraction
+view, ingenious as it may appear, was not original
+with Mr. Talmage. The Rev. Henry M. Morey, of
+South Bend, Indiana, used, upon this subject, the fol-
+lowing language; "The phenomenon was simply
+"optical. The rotary motion of the earth was not
+"disturbed, but the light of the sun was prolonged by
+"the same laws of refraction and reflection by which
+"the sun now appears to be above the horizon when
+"it is really below. The medium through which the
+"sun's rays passed, might have been miraculously
+"influenced so as to have caused the sun to linger
+"above the horizon long after its usual time for dis-
+"appearance."
+
+I pronounce the opinion of Mr. Morey to be the
+ripest product of Christian scholarship. According to
+the Morey-Talmage view, the sun lingered somewhat
+above the horizon. But this is inconsistent with the
+Bible account. We are not told in the Scriptures that
+
+92
+
+the sun "lingered above the horizon," but that it "stood
+"still in the midst of heaven for about a whole day."
+The trouble about the optical-illusion view is, that it
+makes the day too long. If the air was miraculously
+changed, so that it refracted the rays of the sun, while
+the earth turned over as usual for about a whole day,
+then, at the end of that time, the sun must have been
+again visible in the east. It would then naturally
+shine twelve hours more, so that this miraculous day
+must have been at least thirty-six hours in length.
+There were first twelve hours of natural light, then
+twelve hours of refracted and reflected light, and then
+twelve hours more of natural light. This makes the
+day too long. So, I say to Mr. Talmage, as I said to
+Mr. Morey: If you will depend a little less on
+refraction, and a little more on reflection, you will see
+that the whole story is a barbaric myth and foolish
+fable.
+
+For my part, I do not see why God should be
+pleased to have me believe a story of this character.
+I can hardly think that there is great joy in heaven
+over another falsehood swallowed. I can imagine
+that a man may deny this story, and still be an excel-
+lent citizen, a good father, an obliging neighbor, and
+in all respects a just and truthful man. I can also
+
+93
+
+imagine that a man may believe this story, and yet
+assassinate a President of the United States.
+
+I am afraid that Mr. Talmage is beginning to be
+touched, in spite of himself, with some new ideas. He
+tells us that worlds are born and that worlds die.
+This is not exactly the Bible view. You would think
+that he imagined that a world was naturally pro-
+duced,--that the aggregation of atoms was natural,
+and that disintegration came to worlds, as to men,
+through old age. Yet this is not the Bible view.
+According to the Bible, these worlds were not born,--
+they were created out of "nothing," or out of
+"omnipotence," which is much the same. According
+to the Bible, it took this infinite God six days to make
+this atom called earth; and according to the account,
+he did not work nights,--he worked from the morn-
+ings to the evenings,--and I suppose rested nights,
+as he has since that time on Sundays.
+
+Admitting that the battle which Joshua fought
+was exceedingly important--which I do not think--
+is it not a little strange that this God, in all subse-
+quent battles of the world's history, of which we
+know anything, has maintained the strictest neu-
+trality? The earth turned as usual at Yorktown,
+and at Gettysburg the moon pursued her usual
+
+94
+
+course; and so far as I know, neither at Waterloo
+nor at Sedan were there any peculiar freaks of "re-
+"fraction" or "reflection."
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage tells us that there was in
+the early part of this century a dark day, when
+workmen went home from their fields, and legis-
+latures and courts adjourned, and that the darkness
+of that day has not yet been explained. What is
+your opinion about that?
+
+_Answer_. My opinion is, that if at that time we
+had been at war with England, and a battle had
+been commenced in the morning, and in the after-
+noon the American forces had been driven from their
+position and were hard pressed by the enemy, and
+if the day had become suddenly dark, and so dark
+that the Americans were thereby enabled to escape,
+thousands of theologians of the calibre of Mr. Tal-
+mage would have honestly believed that there had
+been an interposition of divine Providence. No
+battle was fought that day, and consequently, even
+the ministers are looking for natural causes. In
+olden times, when the heavens were visited by
+comets, war, pestilence and famine were predicted.
+If wars came, the prediction was remembered; if
+
+95
+
+nothing happened, it was forgotten. When eclipses
+visited the sun and moon, the barbarian fell upon his
+knees, and accounted for the phenomena by the
+wickedness of his neighbor. Mr. Talmage tells us
+that his father was terrified by the meteoric shower
+that visited our earth in 1833. The terror of the
+father may account for the credulity of the son.
+Astronomers will be surprised to read the declaration
+of Mr. Talmage that the meteoric shower has never
+been explained. Meteors visit the earth every year
+of its life, and in a certain portion of the orbit they
+are always expected, and they always come. Mr.
+Newcomb has written a work on astronomy that
+all ministers ought to read.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage also charges you with
+"making light of holy things," and seems to be aston-
+ished that you should ridicule the anointing oil of
+Aaron?
+
+_Answer_. I find that the God who had no time to
+say anything on the subject of slavery, and who found
+no room upon the tables of stone to say a word
+against polygamy, and in favor of the rights of
+woman, wife and mother, took time to give a recipe
+for making hair oil. And in order that the priests
+
+96
+
+might have the exclusive right to manufacture this oil,
+decreed the penalty of death on all who should
+infringe. I admit that I am incapable of seeing the
+beauty of this symbol. Neither could I ever see the
+necessity of Masons putting oil on the corner-stone
+of a building. Of course, I do not know the exact
+chemical effect that oil has on stone, and I see no harm
+in laughing at such a ceremony. If the oil does good,
+the laughter will do no harm; and if the oil will do no
+harm, the laughter will do no good. Personally, I am
+willing that Masons should put oil on all stones; but,
+if Masons should insist that I must believe in the effi-
+cacy of the ceremony, or be eternally damned, I
+would have about the same feeling toward the
+Masons that I now have toward Mr. Talmage. I
+presume that at one time the putting of oil on a
+corner-stone had some meaning; but that it ever did
+any good, no sensible man will insist. It is a custom
+to break a bottle of champagne over the bow of
+a newly-launched ship, but I have never considered
+this ceremony important to the commercial interests
+of the world.
+
+I have the same opinion about putting oil on
+stones, as about putting water on heads. For my
+part, I see no good in the rite of baptism. Still, it
+
+97
+
+may do no harm, unless people are immersed during
+cold weather. Neither have I the slightest objection
+to the baptism of anybody; but if people tell me that
+I must be baptized or suffer eternal agony, then I deny
+it. If they say that baptism does any earthly good, I
+deny it. No one objects to any harmless ceremony;
+but the moment it is insisted that a ceremony is neces-
+sary, the reason of which no man can see, then the
+practice of the ceremony becomes hurtful, for the
+reason that it is maintained only at the expense of
+intelligence and manhood.
+
+It is hurtful for people to imagine that they can
+please God by any ceremony whatever. If there is
+any God, there is only one way to please him, and
+that is, by a conscientious discharge of your obliga-
+tions to your fellow-men. Millions of people imagine
+that they can please God by wearing certain kinds
+of cloth. Think of a God who can be pleased with
+a coat of a certain cut! Others, to earn a smile of
+heaven, shave their heads, or trim their beards, or
+perforate their ears or lips or noses. Others maim
+and mutilate their bodies. Others think to please
+God by simply shutting their eyes, by swinging
+censers, by lighting candles, by repeating poor Latin,
+by making a sign of the cross with holy water, by
+
+98
+
+ringing bells, by going without meat, by eating fish,
+by getting hungry, by counting beads, by making
+themselves miserable Sundays, by looking solemn,
+by refusing to marry, by hearing sermons; and
+others imagine that they can please God by calumni-
+ating unbelievers.
+
+There is an old story of an Irishman who, when
+dying, sent for a priest. The reputation of the
+dying man was so perfectly miserable, that the priest
+refused to administer the rite of extreme unction.
+The priest therefore asked him if he could recollect
+any decent action that he had ever done. The dying
+man said that he could not. "Very well," said the
+priest, "then you will have to be damned." In a
+moment, the pinched and pale face brightened, and
+he said to the priest: "I have thought of one good
+"action." "What is it?" asked the priest. And the
+dying man said, "Once I killed a gauger."
+
+I suppose that in the next world some ministers,
+driven to extremes, may reply: "Once I told a lie
+"about an infidel."
+
+_Question_. You see that Mr. Talmage still sticks to
+the whale and Jonah story. What do you think of
+his argument, or of his explanation, rather, of that
+miracle?
+
+99
+
+_Answer_. The edge of his orthodoxy seems to be
+crumbling. He tells us that "there is in the mouth
+"of the common whale a cavity large enough for a
+"man to live in without descent into his stomach,"--
+and yet Christ says, that Jonah was in the whale's
+belly, not in his mouth. But why should Mr. Tal-
+mage say that? We are told in the sacred account
+that "God prepared a great fish" for the sole pur-
+pose of having Jonah swallowed. The size of the
+present whale has nothing to do with the story. No
+matter whether the throat of the whale of to-day is
+large or small,--that has nothing to do with it. The
+simple story is, that God prepared a fish and had
+Jonah swallowed. And yet Mr. Talmage throws out
+the suggestion that probably this whale held Jonah
+in his mouth for three days and nights. I admit that
+Jonah's chance for air would have been a little better
+in his mouth, and his chance for water a little worse.
+Probably the whale that swallowed Jonah was the
+same fish spoken of by Procopius,--both accounts
+being entitled, in my judgment, to equal credence.
+I am a little surprised that Mr. Talmage forgot
+to mention the fish spoken of by Munchausen--an
+equally reliable author,--and who has given, not
+simply the bald fact that a fish swallowed a ship, but
+
+100
+
+was good enough to furnish the details. Mr. Talmage
+should remember that out of Jonah's biography
+grew the habit of calling any remarkable lie, "a fish
+"story." There is one thing that Mr. Talmage
+should not forget; and that is, that miracles should
+not be explained. Miracles are told simply to be
+believed, not to be understood.
+
+Somebody suggested to Mr. Talmage that, in
+all probability, a person in the stomach of a whale
+would be digested in less than three days. Mr. Tal-
+mage, again showing his lack of confidence in God,
+refusing to believe that God could change the nature
+of gastric juice,--having no opportunity to rely
+upon "refraction or reflection," frankly admits that
+Jonah had to save himself by keeping on the
+constant go and jump. This gastric-juice theory of
+Mr. Talmage is an abandonment of his mouth hy-
+pothesis. I do not wonder that Mr. Talmage thought
+of the mouth theory. Possibly, the two theories had
+better be united--so that we may say that Jonah,
+when he got tired of the activity necessary to
+avoid the gastric juice, could have strolled into
+the mouth for a rest. What a picture! Jonah
+sitting on the edge of the lower jaw, wiping the
+perspiration and the gastric juice from his anxious
+
+101
+
+face, and vainly looking through the open mouth
+for signs of land!
+
+In this story of Jonah, we are told that "the Lord
+"spake unto the fish." In what language? It must
+be remembered that this fish was only a few hours
+old. He had been prepared during the storm, for
+the sole purpose of swallowing Jonah. He was a
+fish of exceedingly limited experience. He had no
+hereditary knowledge, because he did not spring
+from ancestors; consequently, he had no instincts.
+Would such a fish understand any language? It
+may be contended that the fish, having been made
+for the occasion, was given a sufficient knowledge
+of language to understand an ordinary command-
+ment; but, if Mr. Talmage is right, I think an order
+to the fish would have been entirely unnecessary.
+When we take into consideration that a thing the
+size of a man had been promenading up and down
+the stomach of this fish for three days and three
+nights, successfully baffling the efforts of gastric
+juice, we can readily believe that the fish was as
+anxious to have Jonah go, as Jonah was to leave.
+
+But the whale part is, after all, not the most won-
+derful portion of the book of Jonah. According to
+this wonderful account, "the word of the Lord came
+
+102
+
+"to Jonah," telling him to "go and cry against the
+"city of Nineveh;" but Jonah, instead of going,
+endeavored to evade the Lord by taking ship for
+Tarshish. As soon as the Lord heard of this, he
+"sent out a great wind into the sea," and frightened
+the sailors to that extent that after assuring them-
+selves, by casting lots, that Jonah was the man, they
+threw him into the sea. After escaping from the
+whale, he went to Nineveh, and delivered his pre-
+tended message from God. In consequence of his
+message, Jonah having no credentials from God,--
+nothing certifying to his official character, the King
+of Nineveh covered himself with sack-cloth and sat
+down in some ashes. He then caused a decree to
+be issued that every man and beast should abstain
+from food and water; and further, that every man and
+beast should be covered with sack-cloth. This was
+done in the hope that Jonah's God would repent, and
+turn away his fierce anger. When we take into con-
+sideration the fact that the people of Nineveh were
+not Hebrews, and had not the slightest confidence in
+the God of the Jews--knew no more of, and cared no
+more for, Jehovah than we now care for Jupiter, or
+Neptune; the effect produced by the proclamation of
+Jonah is, to say the least of it, almost incredible.
+
+103
+
+We are also informed, in this book, that the
+moment God saw all the people sitting in the ashes,
+and all the animals covered with sack-cloth, he
+repented. This failure on the part of God to destroy
+the unbelievers displeased Jonah exceedingly, and
+he was very angry. Jonah was much like the
+modern minister, who seems always to be personally
+aggrieved if the pestilence and famine prophesied by
+him do not come. Jonah was displeased to that
+degree, that he asked God to kill him. Jonah then
+went out of the city, even after God had repented,
+made him a booth and sat under it, in the shade,
+waiting to see what would become of the city. God
+then "prepared a gourd, and made it to come up
+"over Jonah that it might be a shadow over his
+"head to deliver him from his grief." And then we
+have this pathetic line: "So Jonah was exceedingly
+"glad of the gourd."
+
+God having prepared a fish, and also prepared
+a gourd, proposed next morning to prepare a worm.
+And when the sun rose next day, the worm that
+God had prepared, "smote the gourd, so that
+"it withered." I can hardly believe that an in-
+finite being prepared a worm to smite a gourd
+so that it withered, in order to keep the sun from
+
+104
+
+the bald head of a prophet. According to the
+account, after sunrise, and after the worm had
+smitten the gourd, "God prepared a vehement east
+"wind." This was not an ordinary wind, but one
+prepared expressly for that occasion. After the wind
+had been prepared, "the sun beat upon the head of
+"Jonah, and he fainted, and wished in himself to
+"die." All this was done in order to convince
+Jonah that a man who would deplore the loss of a
+gourd, ought not to wish for the destruction of a city.
+
+Is it possible for any intelligent man now to
+believe that the history of Jonah is literally true?
+For my part, I cannot see the necessity either of
+believing it, or of preaching it. It has nothing to do
+with honesty, with mercy, or with morality. The
+bad may believe it, and the good may hold it in
+contempt. I do not see that civilization has the
+slightest interest in the fish, the gourd, the worm, or
+the vehement east wind.
+
+Does Mr. Talmage think that it is absolutely neces-
+sary to believe _all_ the story? Does he not think it
+probable that a God of infinite mercy, rather than
+damn the soul of an honest man to hell forever, would
+waive, for instance, the worm,--provided he believed
+in the vehement east wind, the gourd and the fish?
+
+105
+
+Mr. Talmage, by insisting on the literal truth of
+the Bible stories, is doing Christianity great harm.
+Thousands of young men will say: "I can't become
+"a Christian if it is necessary to believe the adven-
+"tures of Jonah." Mr. Talmage will put into the
+paths of multitudes of people willing to do right,
+anxious to make the world a little better than it is,--
+this stumbling block. He could have explained it,
+called it an allegory, poetical license, a child of the
+oriental imagination, a symbol, a parable, a poem, a
+dream, a legend, a myth, a divine figure, or a great
+truth wrapped in the rags and shreds and patches of
+seeming falsehood. His efforts to belittle the miracle,
+to suggest the mouth instead of the stomach,--to
+suggest that Jonah took deck passage, or lodged in
+the forecastle instead of in the cabin or steerage,--
+to suggest motion as a means of avoiding digestion,
+is a serious theological blunder, and may cause the
+loss of many souls.
+
+If Mr. Talmage will consult with other ministers,
+they will tell him to let this story alone--that he will
+simply "provoke investigation and discussion"--two
+things to be avoided. They will tell him that they
+are not willing their salary should hang on so slender
+a thread, and will advise him not to bother his gourd
+
+106
+
+about Jonah's. They will also tell him that in this
+age of the world, arguments cannot be answered by
+"a vehement east wind."
+
+Some people will think that it would have been
+just as easy for God to have pulled the gourd up, as
+to have prepared a worm to bite it.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges that you have
+said there are indecencies in the Bible. Are you
+still of that opinion?
+
+_Answer_. Mr. Talmage endeavors to evade the
+charge, by saying that "there are things in the Bible
+"not intended to be read, either in the family circle,
+"or in the pulpit, but nevertheless they are to be
+"read." My own judgment is, that an infinite being
+should not inspire the writing of indecent things.
+It will not do to say, that the Bible description of sin
+"warns and saves." There is nothing in the history
+of Tamar calculated to "warn and save and the
+same may be said of many other passages in the
+Old Testament. Most Christians would be glad
+to know that all such passages are interpolations.
+I regret that Shakespeare ever wrote a line that
+could not be read any where, and by any person.
+But Shakespeare, great as he was, did not rise en-
+
+107
+
+tirely above his time. So of most poets. Nearly all
+have stained their pages with some vulgarity; and I
+am sorry for it, and hope the time will come when
+we shall have an edition of all the great writers and
+poets from which every such passage is elimi-
+nated.
+
+It is with the Bible as with most other books. It
+is a mingling of good and bad. There are many
+exquisite passages in the Bible,--many good laws,--
+many wise sayings,--and there are many passages
+that should never have been written. I do not pro-
+pose to throw away the good on account of the
+bad, neither do I propose to accept the bad on
+account of the good. The Bible need not be taken
+as an entirety. It is the business of every man who
+reads it, to discriminate between that which is good
+and that which is bad. There are also many passages
+neither good nor bad,--wholly and totally indifferent
+--conveying 110 information--utterly destitute of
+ideas,--and as to these passages, my only objection
+to them is that they waste time and paper.
+
+I am in favor of every passage in the Bible that
+conveys information. I am in favor of every wise
+proverb, of every verse coming from human ex-
+perience and that appeals to the heart of man. I am
+
+108
+
+in favor of every passage that inculcates justice,
+generosity, purity, and mercy. I am satisfied that
+much of the historical part is false. Some of it
+is probably true. Let us have the courage to take
+the true, and throw the false away. I am satisfied
+that many of the passages are barbaric, and many of
+them are good. Let us have the wisdom to accept
+the good and to reject the barbaric.
+
+No system of religion should go in partnership
+with barbarism. Neither should any Christian feel
+it his duty to defend the savagery of the past. The
+philosophy of Christ must stand independently of the
+mistakes of the Old Testament. We should do jus-
+tice whether a woman was made from a rib or from
+"omnipotence." We should be merciful whether
+the flood was general, or local. We should be kind
+and obliging whether Jonah was swallowed by a fish
+or not. The miraculous has nothing to do with the
+moral. Intelligence is of more value than inspiration.
+Brain is better than Bible. Reason is above all
+religion. I do not believe that any civilized human
+being clings to the Bible on account of its barbaric
+passages. I am candid enough to believe that every
+Christian in the world would think more of the Bible,
+if it had not upheld slavery, if it had denounced
+
+109
+
+polygamy, if it had cried out against wars of exter-
+mination, if it had spared women and babes, if it had
+upheld everywhere, and at all times, the standard of
+justice and mercy. But when it is claimed that the
+book is perfect, that it is inspired, that it is, in fact,
+the work of an infinitely wise and good God,--then
+it should be without a defect. There should not be
+within its lids an impure word; it should not express
+an impure thought. There should not be one word
+in favor of injustice, not one word in favor of slavery,
+not one word in favor of wars of extermination.
+There must be another revision of the Scriptures.
+The chaff must be thrown away. The dross must
+be rejected; and only that be retained which is in
+exact harmony with the brain and heart of the
+greatest and the best.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with unfair-
+ness, because you account for the death of art in
+Palestine, by the commandment which forbids the
+making of graven images.
+
+_Answer_. I have said that that commandment was
+the death of art, and I say so still. I insist that by
+reason of that commandment, Palestine produced no
+painter and no sculptor until after the destruction of
+
+110
+
+Jerusalem. Mr. Talmage, in order to answer that
+statement, goes on to show that hundreds and thou-
+sands of pictures were produced in the Middle Ages.
+That is a departure in pleading. Will he give us the
+names of the painters that existed in Palestine from
+Mount Sinai to the destruction of the temple? Will
+he give us the names of the sculptors between those
+times? Mohammed prohibited his followers from
+making any representation of human or animal life,
+and as a result, Mohammedans have never produced
+a painter nor a sculptor, except in the portrayal and
+chiseling of vegetable forms. They were confined
+to trees and vines, and flowers. No Mohammedan
+has portrayed the human face or form. But the
+commandment of Jehovah went farther than that of
+Momammed, and prevented portraying the image of
+anything. The assassination of art was complete.
+
+There is another thing that should not be forgotten.
+
+We are indebted for the encouragement of
+art, not to the Protestant Church; if indebted to any,
+it is to the Catholic. The Catholic adorned the cathedral
+
+with painting and statue--not the Protestant.
+The Protestants opposed music and painting, and
+refused to decorate their temples. But if Mr. Tal-
+mage wishes to know to whom we are indebted for
+
+111
+
+art, let him read the mythology of Greece and Rome.
+The early Christians destroyed paintings and statues.
+They were the enemies of all beauty. They hated
+and detested every expression of art. They looked
+upon the love of statues as a form of idolatry. They
+looked upon every painting as a remnant of Pagan-
+ism. They destroyed all upon which they could lay
+their ignorant hands. Hundred of years afterwards,
+the world was compelled to search for the fragments
+that Christian fury had left. The Greeks filled the
+world with beauty. For every stream and mountain
+and cataract they had a god or goddess. Their
+sculptors impersonated every dream and hope, and
+their mythology feeds, to-day, the imagination of
+mankind. The Venus de Milo is the impersonation
+of beauty, in ruin--the sublimest fragment of the
+ancient world. Our mythology is infinitely unpoetic
+and barren--our deity an old bachelor from eternity,
+who once believed in indiscriminate massacre. Upon
+the throne of our heaven, woman finds no place.
+Our mythology is destitute of the maternal.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage denies your statement
+that the Old Testament humiliates woman. He also
+denies that the New Testament says anything
+against woman. How is it?
+
+112
+
+_Answer_. Of course, I never considered a book up-
+holding polygamy to be the friend of woman. Eve,
+according to that book, is the mother of us all, and
+yet the inspired writer does not tell us how long she
+lived,--does not even mention her death,--makes
+not the slightest reference as to what finally became
+of her. Methuselah lived nine hundred and sixty-
+nine years, and yet, there is not the slightest mention
+made of Mrs. Methuselah. Enoch was translated,
+and his widow is not mentioned. There is not a
+word about Mrs. Seth, or Mrs. Enos, or Mrs. Cainan,
+or Mrs. Mahalaleel, or Mrs. Jared. We do not
+know the name of Mrs. Noah, and I believe not the
+name of a solitary woman is given from the creation
+of Eve--with the exception of two of Lamech's
+wives--until Sarai is mentioned as being the wife
+of Abram.
+
+If you wish really to know the Bible estimation of
+woman, turn to the fourth and fifth verses of the
+twelfth chapter of Leviticus, in which a woman, for
+the crime of having borne a son, is unfit to touch a
+hallowed thing, or to come in the holy sanctuary for
+thirty-three days; but if a woman was the mother
+of a girl, then she became totally unfit to enter the
+sanctuary, or pollute with her touch a hallowed thing,
+
+113
+
+for sixty-six days. The pollution was twice as great
+when she had borne a daughter.
+
+It is a little difficult to see why it is a greater crime
+to give birth to a daughter than to a son. Surely, a
+law like that did not tend to the elevation of woman.
+You will also find in the same chapter that a woman
+had to offer a pigeon, or a turtle-dove, as a sin offer-
+ing, in order to expiate the crime of having become a
+mother. By the Levitical law, a mother was unclean.
+The priest had to make an atonement for her.
+
+If there is, beneath the stars, a figure of complete
+and perfect purity, it is a mother holding in her arms
+her child. The laws respecting women, given by
+commandment of Jehovah to the Jews, were born of
+barbarism, and in this day and age should be re-
+garded only with detestation and contempt. The
+twentieth and twenty-first verses of the nineteenth
+chapter of Leviticus show that the same punishment
+was not meted to men and women guilty of the
+same crime.
+
+The real explanation of what we find in the Old
+Testament degrading to woman, lies in the fact, that
+the overflow of Love's mysterious Nile--the sacred
+source of life--was, by its savage authors, deemed
+unclean.
+
+114
+
+_Question_. But what have you to say about the
+women of the Bible, mentioned by Mr. Talmage,
+and held up as examples for all time of all that is
+sweet and womanly?
+
+_Answer_. I believe that Esther is his principal
+heroine. Let us see who she was.
+
+According to the book of Esther, Ahasuerus who
+was king of Persia, or some such place, ordered
+Vashti his queen to show herself to the people
+and the princes, because she was "exceedingly fair
+"to look upon." For some reason--modesty per-
+haps--she refused to appear. And thereupon the
+king "sent letters into all his provinces and to every
+"people after their language, that every man should
+"bear rule in his own house;" it being feared that
+if it should become public that Vashti had disobeyed,
+all other wives might follow her example. The king
+also, for the purpose of impressing upon all women
+the necessity of obeying their husbands, issued a
+decree that "Vashti should come no more before
+"him," and that he would "give her royal estate
+"unto another." This was done that "all the
+"wives should give to their husbands honor, both to
+"great and small."
+
+After this, "the king appointed officers in all the
+
+115
+
+"provinces of his kingdom that they might gather
+"together all the fair young virgins," and bring
+them to his palace, put them in the custody of
+his chamberlain, and have them thoroughly washed.
+Then the king was to look over the lot and take
+each day the one that pleased him best until he found
+the one to put in the place of Vashti. A fellow by
+the name of Mordecai, living in that part of the
+country, hearing of the opportunity to sell a girl,
+brought Esther, his uncle's daughter,--she being an
+orphan, and very beautiful--to see whether she
+might not be the lucky one.
+
+The remainder of the second chapter of this
+book, I do not care to repeat. It is sufficient to say
+that Esther at last was chosen.
+
+The king at this time did not know that Esther
+was a Jewess. Mordecai her kinsman, however,
+discovered a plot to assassinate the king, and Esther
+told the king, and the two plotting gentlemen were
+hanged on a tree.
+
+After a while, a man by the name of Haman was
+made Secretary of State, and everybody coming in
+his presence bowed except Mordecai. Mordecai was
+probably depending on the influence of Esther.
+Haman finally became so vexed, that he made up
+
+116
+
+his mind to have all the Jews in the kingdom
+destroyed. (The number of Jews at that time
+in Persia must have been immense.) Haman there-
+upon requested the king to have an order issued to
+destroy all the Jews, and in consideration of the
+order, proposed to pay ten thousand talents of silver.
+And thereupon, letters were written to the governors
+of the various provinces, sealed with the king's ring,
+sent by post in all directions, with instructions to kill
+all the Jews, both young and old--little children and
+women,--in one day. (One would think that the
+king copied this order from another part of the Old
+Testament, or had found an original by Jehovah.) The
+people immediately made preparations for the killing.
+Mordecai clothed himself with sack-cloth, and Esther
+called upon one of the king's chamberlains, and she
+finally got the history of the affair, as well as a copy
+of the writing, and thereupon made up her mind to
+go in and ask the king to save her people.
+
+At that time, Bismarck's idea of government being
+in full force, any one entering the king's presence with-
+out an invitation, was liable to be put to death. And
+in case any one did go in to see the king, if the king
+failed to hold out his golden sceptre, his life was not
+spared. Notwithstanding this order, Esther put on
+
+117
+
+her best clothes, and stood in the inner court of the
+king's house, while the king sat on his royal throne.
+When the king saw her standing in the court, he
+held out his sceptre, and Esther drew near, and he
+asked her what she wished; and thereupon she
+asked that the king and Haman might take dinner
+with her that day, and it was done. While they were
+feasting, the king again asked Esther what she
+wanted; and her second request was, that they
+would come and dine with her once more. When
+Haman left the palace that day, he saw Mordecai
+again at the gate, standing as stiffly as usual, and it
+filled Haman with indignation. So Haman, taking
+the advice of his wife, made a gallows fifty cubits
+high, for the special benefit of Mordecai. The next
+day, when Haman went to see the king, the king,
+having the night before refreshed his memory in
+respect to the service done him by Mordecai, asked
+Haman what ought to be done for the man whom
+the king wished to honor. Haman, supposing of
+course that the king referred to him, said that royal
+purple ought to be brought forth, such as the king
+wore, and the horse that the king rode on, and the
+crown-royal should be set on the man's head;--that
+one of the most noble princes should lead the horse,
+
+118
+
+and as he went through the streets, proclaim: "Thus
+"shall it be done to the man whom the king de-
+"lighteth to honor."
+
+Thereupon the king told Haman that Mordecai
+was the man that the king wished to honor. And
+Haman was forced to lead this horse, backed by
+Mordecai, through the streets, shouting: "This shall
+"be done to the man whom the king delighteth to
+"honor." Immediately afterward, he went to the
+banquet that Esther had prepared, and the king
+again asked Esther her petition. She then asked
+for the salvation of her people; stating at the same
+time, that if her people had been sold into slavery,
+she would have held her tongue; but since they
+were about to be killed, she could not keep silent.
+The king asked her who had done this thing; and
+Esther replied that it was the wicked Haman.
+
+Thereupon one of the chamberlains, remembering
+the gallows that had been made for Mordecai, men-
+tioned it, and the king immediately ordered that
+Haman be hanged thereon; which was done. And
+Mordecai immediately became Secretary of State.
+The order against the Jews was then rescinded; and
+Ahasuerus, willing to do anything that Esther de-
+sired, hanged all of Haman's folks. He not only did
+
+119
+
+this, but he immediately issued an order to all the
+Jews allowing them to kill the other folks. And the
+Jews got together throughout one hundred and
+twenty-seven provinces, "and such was their power,
+"that no man could stand against them; and there-
+"upon the Jews smote all their enemies with the
+"stroke of the sword, and with slaughter and de-
+"struction, and did whatever they pleased to those
+"who hated them." And in the palace of the king,
+the Jews slew and destroyed five hundred men, besides
+ten sons of Haman; and in the rest of the provinces,
+they slew seventy-five thousand people. And after
+this work of slaughter, the Jews had a day of glad-
+ness and feasting.
+
+One can see from this, what a beautiful Bible
+character Esther was--how filled with all that is
+womanly, gentle, kind and tender!
+
+This story is one of the most unreasonable, as well
+as one of the most heartless and revengeful, in the
+whole Bible. Ahasuerus was a monster, and Esther
+equally infamous; and yet, this woman is held up for
+the admiration of mankind by a Brooklyn pastor.
+There is this peculiarity about the book of Esther:
+the name of God is not mentioned in it, and the
+deity is not referred to, directly or indirectly;--yet
+
+120
+
+it is claimed to be an inspired book. If Jehovah
+wrote it, he certainly cannot be charged with
+egotism.
+
+I most cheerfully admit that the book of Ruth is
+quite a pleasant story, and the affection of Ruth for
+her mother-in-law exceedingly touching, but I am of
+opinion that Ruth did many things that would be re-
+garded as somewhat indiscreet, even in the city of
+Brooklyn.
+
+All I can find about Hannah is, that she made a
+little coat for her boy Samuel, and brought it to him
+from year to year. Where he got his vest and
+pantaloons we are not told. But this fact seems
+hardly enough to make her name immortal.
+
+So also Mr. Talmage refers us to the wonderful
+woman Abigail. The story about Abigail, told in
+plain English, is this: David sent some of his fol-
+lowers to Nabal, Abigail's husband, and demanded
+food. Nabal, who knew nothing about David, and
+cared less, refused. Abigail heard about it, and took
+food to David and his servants. She was very much
+struck, apparently, with David and David with her.
+A few days afterward Nabal died--supposed to have
+been killed by the Lord--but probably poisoned;
+and thereupon David took Abigail to wife. The
+
+121
+
+whole matter should have been investigated by the
+grand jury.
+
+We are also referred to Dorcas, who no doubt was a
+good woman--made clothes for the poor and gave
+alms, as millions have done since then. It seems
+that this woman died. Peter was sent for, and there-
+upon raised her from the dead, and she is never men-
+tioned any more. Is it not a little strange that a
+woman who had been actually raised from the dead,
+should have so completely passed out of the memory
+of her time, that when she died the second time, she
+was entirely unnoticed?
+
+Is it not astonishing that so little is in the New
+Testament concerning the mother of Christ? My
+own opinion is, that she was an excellent woman, and
+the wife of Joseph; and that Joseph was the actual
+father of Christ. I think there can be no reasonable
+doubt that such was the opinion of the authors of the
+original gospels. Upon any other hypothesis, it is
+impossible to account for their having given the
+genealogy of Joseph to prove that Christ was of the
+blood of David. The idea that he was the Son of
+God, or in any way miraculously produced, was an
+afterthought, and is hardly entitled now to serious
+consideration. The gospels were written so long after
+
+122
+
+the death of Christ, that very little was known of him,
+and substantially nothing of his parents. How is it
+that not one word is said about the death of Mary--
+not one word about the death of Joseph? How did
+it happen that Christ did not visit his mother after his
+resurrection? The first time he speaks to his mother
+is when he was twelve years old. His mother having
+told him that she and his father had been seeking
+him, he replied: "How is it that ye sought me: wist
+"ye not that I must be about my Father s business?"
+
+The second time was at the marriage feast in Cana,
+when he said to her: "Woman, what have I to do
+"with thee?" And the third time was at the cross,
+when "Jesus, seeing his mother standing by the
+"disciple whom he loved, said to her: Woman, be-
+"hold thy son;" and to the disciple: "Behold thy
+"mother." And this is all.
+
+The best thing about the Catholic Church is
+the deification of Mary,--and yet this is denounced
+by Protestantism as idolatry. There is something
+in the human heart that prompts man to tell his faults
+more freely to the mother than to the father. The
+cruelty of Jehovah is softened by the mercy of
+Mary.
+
+Is it not strange that none of the disciples of Christ
+
+123
+
+said anything about their parents,--that we know
+absolutely nothing of them? Is there any evidence
+that they showed any particular respect even for the
+mother of Christ?
+
+Mary Magdalen is, in many respects, the tenderest
+and most loving character in the New Testament.
+According to the account, her love for Christ knew
+no abatement,--no change--true even in the hopeless
+shadow of the cross. Neither did it die with his
+death. She waited at the sepulchre; she hasted in
+the early morning to his tomb, and yet the only
+comfort Christ gave to this true and loving soul lies
+in these strangely cold and heartless words: "Touch
+"me not."
+
+There is nothing tending to show that the women
+spoken of in the Bible were superior to the ones we
+know. There are to-day millions of women making
+coats for their sons,--hundreds of thousands of
+women, true not simply to innocent people, falsely
+accused, but to criminals. Many a loving heart is
+as true to the gallows as Mary was to the cross.
+There are hundreds of thousands of women accept-
+ing poverty and want and dishonor, for the love they
+bear unworthy men; hundreds and thousands, hun-
+dreds and thousands, working day and night, with
+
+124
+
+strained eyes and tired hands, for husbands and
+children,--clothed in rags, housed in huts and hovels,
+hoping day after day for the angel of death. There are
+thousands of women in Christian England, working in
+iron, laboring in the fields and toiling in mines. There
+are hundreds and thousands in Europe, everywhere,
+doing the work of men--deformed by toil, and who
+would become simply wild and ferocious beasts,
+except for the love they bear for home and child.
+
+You need not go back four thousand years for
+heroines. The world is filled with them to-day.
+They do not belong to any nation, nor to any religion,
+nor exclusively to any race. Wherever woman is
+found, they are found.
+
+There is no description of any women in the Bible
+that equal thousands and thousands of women known
+to-day. The women mentioned by Mr. Talmage fall
+almost infinitely below, not simply those in real life, but
+the creations of the imagination found in the world of
+fiction. They will not compare with the women born
+of Shakespeare's brain. You will find none like
+Isabella, in whose spotless life, love and reason
+blended into perfect truth; nor Juliet, within whose
+heart passion and purity met, like white and red within
+the bosom of a rose; nor Cordelia, who chose to
+
+125
+
+suffer loss rather than show her wealth of love with
+those who gilded dross with golden words in hope
+of gain; nor Miranda, who told her love as freely
+as a flower gives its bosom to the kisses of the sun;
+nor Imogene, who asked: "What is it to be false?"
+nor Hermione, who bore with perfect faith and hope
+the cross of shame, and who at last forgave with all
+her heart; nor Desdemona, her innocence so perfect
+and her love so pure, that she was incapable of sus-
+pecting that another could suspect, and sought with
+dying words to hide her lover's crime.
+
+If we wish to find what the Bible thinks of
+woman, all that is necessary to do is to read it.
+We will find that everywhere she is spoken of
+simply as property,--as belonging absolutely to the
+man. We will find that whenever a man got tired
+of his wife, all he had to do was to give her a writing
+of divorcement, and that then the mother of his
+children became a houseless and a homeless wanderer.
+We will find that men were allowed to have as
+many wives as they could get, either by courtship,
+purchase, or conquest. The Jewish people in the
+olden time were in many respects like their barbarian
+neighbors.
+
+If we read the New Testament, we will find in the
+
+126
+
+epistle of Paul to Timothy, the following gallant
+passages:
+
+"Let the woman learn in silence, with all
+"subjection."
+
+"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp
+"authority over the man, but to be in silence."
+
+And for these kind, gentle and civilized remarks,
+the apostle Paul gives the following reasons:
+
+"For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
+
+"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman
+"being deceived was in the transgression."
+
+Certainly women ought to feel under great obli-
+gation to the apostle Paul.
+
+In the fifth chapter of the same epistle, Paul,
+advising Timothy as to what kind of people he
+should admit into his society or church, uses the
+following language:
+
+"Let not a widow be taken into the number under
+"threescore years old, having been the wife of one
+"man."
+
+"But the younger widows refuse, for when they
+"have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will
+"marry."
+
+This same Paul did not seem to think polygamy
+wrong, except in a bishop. He tells Timothy that:
+
+127
+
+"A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one
+"wife."
+
+He also lays down the rule that a deacon should be
+the husband of one wife, leaving us to infer that the
+other members might have as many as they could get.
+
+In the second epistle to Timothy, Paul speaks of
+"grandmother Lois," who was referred to in such
+extravagant language by Mr. Talmage, and nothing
+is said touching her character in the least. All her
+virtues live in the imagination, and in the imagina-
+tion alone.
+
+Paul, also, in his epistle to the Ephesians, says:
+
+"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own hus-
+"bands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the
+"head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the
+"church."
+
+"Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ,
+"so let the wives be to their own husbands, in
+"everything."
+
+You will find, too, that in the seventh chapter of
+First Corinthians, Paul laments that all men are not
+bachelors like himself, and in the second verse of
+that chapter he gives the only reason for which he
+was willing that men and women should marry. He
+advised all the unmarried, and all widows, to remain
+
+128
+
+as he was. In the ninth verse of this same chapter
+is a slander too vulgar for repetition,--an estimate
+of woman and of woman's love so low and vile, that
+every woman should hold the inspired author in
+infinite abhorrence.
+
+Paul sums up the whole matter, however, by telling
+those who have wives or husbands, to stay with
+them--as necessary evils only to be tolerated--but
+sincerely regrets that anybody was ever married;
+and finally says that:
+
+"They that have wives should be as though they
+"had none;" because, in his opinion:
+
+"He that is unmarried careth for the things that
+"belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord;
+"but he that is married careth for the things that are
+"of the world, how he may please his wife."
+
+"There is this difference also," he tells us, "be-
+"tween a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman
+"careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be
+"holy both in body and in spirit; but she that is
+"married careth for the things of the world, how she
+" may please her husband."
+
+Of course, it is contended that these things have
+tended to the elevation of woman.
+
+The idea that it is better to love the Lord than to
+
+129
+
+love your wife, or your husband, is infinitely absurd.
+Nobody ever did love the Lord,--nobody can--until
+he becomes acquainted with him.
+
+Saint Paul also tells us that "Man is the image
+"and glory of God; but woman is the glory of
+"man;" and for the purpose of sustaining this posi-
+tion, says:
+
+"For the man is not of the woman, but the woman
+"of the man; neither was the man created for the
+"woman, but the woman for the man."
+
+Of course, we can all see that man could have
+gotten along well enough without woman, but woman,
+by no possibility, could have gotten along without
+man. And yet, this is called "inspired;" and this
+apostle Paul is supposed to have known more than
+all the people now upon the earth. No wonder Paul
+at last was constrained to say: "We are fools for
+"Christ's sake."
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the present
+condition of woman in what is known as "the civilized
+"world," unless the Bible has bettered her condition?
+
+_Answer_. We must remember that thousands of
+things enter into the problem of civilization. Soil,
+climate, and geographical position, united with count-
+
+130
+
+less other influences, have resulted in the civilization
+of our time. If we want to find what the influence of
+the Bible has been, we must ascertain the condition
+of Europe when the Bible was considered as abso-
+lutely true, and when it wielded its greatest influence.
+
+Christianity as a form of religion had actual posses-
+sion of Europe during the Middle Ages. At that
+time, it exerted its greatest power. Then it had the
+opportunity of breaking the shackles from the limbs
+of woman. Christianity found the Roman matron a
+free woman. Polygamy was never known in Rome;
+and although divorces were allowed by law, the
+Roman state had been founded for more than five
+hundred years before either a husband or a wife
+asked for a divorce. From the foundation of Chris-
+tianity,--I mean from the time it became the force in
+the Roman state,--woman, as such, went down in
+the scale of civilization. The sceptre was taken from
+her hands, and she became once more the slave and
+serf of man. The men also were made slaves, and
+woman has regained her liberty by the same means
+that man has regained his,--by wresting authority
+from the hands of the church. While the church had
+power, the wife and mother was not considered as
+good as the begging nun; the husband and father
+was far below the vermin-covered monk; homes
+were of no value compared with the cathedral; for
+God had to have a house, no matter how many of
+his children were wanderers. During all the years in
+which woman has struggled for equal liberty with
+man, she has been met with the Bible doctrine that
+she is the inferior of the man; that Adam was made
+first, and Eve afterwards; that man was not made for
+woman, but that woman was made for man.
+
+I find that in this day and generation, the meanest
+men have the lowest estimate of woman; that the
+greater the man is, the grander he is, the more he
+thinks of mother, wife and daughter. I also find that
+just in the proportion that he has lost confidence in the
+polygamy of Jehovah and in the advice and philosophy
+of Saint Paul, he believes in the rights and liberties of
+woman. As a matter of fact, men have risen from a
+perusal of the Bible, and murdered their wives. They
+have risen from reading its pages, and inflicted cruel
+and even mortal blows upon their children. Men
+have risen from reading the Bible and torn the flesh
+of others with red-hot pincers. They have laid
+down the sacred volume long enough to pour molten
+lead into the ears of others. They have stopped
+reading the sacred Scriptures for a sufficient time to
+
+132
+
+incarcerate their fellow-men, to load them with chains,
+and then they have gone back to their reading,
+allowing their victims to die in darkness and despair.
+Men have stopped reading the Old Testament long
+enough to drive a stake into the ground and collect a
+few fagots and burn an honest man. Even ministers
+have denied themselves the privilege of reading the
+sacred book long enough to tell falsehoods about
+their fellow-men. There is no crime that Bible
+readers and Bible believers and Bible worshipers and
+Bible defenders have not committed. There is no
+meanness of which some Bible reader, believer, and
+defender, has not been guilty. Bible believers and
+Bible defenders have filled the world with calumnies
+and slanders. Bible believers and Bible defenders
+have not only whipped their wives, but they have
+murdered them; they have murdered their children.
+I do not say that reading the Bible will necessarily
+make men dishonest, but I do say, that reading the
+Bible will not prevent their committing crimes. I do
+not say that believing the Bible will necessarily make
+men commit burglary, but I do say that a belief in the
+Bible has caused men to persecute each other, to
+imprison each other, and to burn each other.
+
+Only a little while ago, a British clergyman mur-
+
+133
+
+dered his wife. Only a little while ago, an American
+Protestant clergyman whipped his boy to death be-
+cause the boy refused to say a prayer.
+
+The Rev. Mr. Crowley not only believed the Bible,
+but was licensed to expound it. He had been
+"called" to the ministry, and upon his head had
+been laid the holy hands; and yet, he deliberately
+starved orphans, and while looking upon their
+sunken eyes and hollow cheeks, sung pious hymns
+and quoted with great unction: "Suffer little chil-
+"dren to come unto me."
+
+As a matter of fact, in the last twenty years,
+more money has been stolen by Christian cashiers,
+Christian presidents, Christian directors, Christian
+trustees and Christian statesmen, than by all other
+convicts in all the penitentiaries in all the Christian
+world.
+
+The assassin of Henry the Fourth was a Bible reader
+and a Bible believer. The instigators of the massacre
+of St. Bartholomew were believers in your sacred
+Scriptures. The men who invested their money in the
+slave-trade believed themselves filled with the Holy
+Ghost, and read with rapture the Psalms of David and
+the Sermon on the Mount. The murderers of Scotch
+Presbyterians were believers in Revelation, and the
+
+134
+Presbyterians, when they murdered others, were also
+believers. Nearly every man who expiates a crime
+upon the gallows is a believer in the Bible. For a
+thousand years, the daggers of assassination and the
+swords of war were blest by priests--by the believers
+in the sacred Scriptures. The assassin of President
+Garfield is a believer in the Bible, a hater of infidelity,
+a believer in personal inspiration, and he expects in a
+few weeks to join the winged and redeemed in
+heaven.
+
+If a man would follow, to-day, the teachings of the
+Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would
+follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be
+insane.
+
+
+
+
+FOURTH INTERVIEW.
+
+
+_Son. There is no devil.
+
+Mother. I know there is.
+
+Son. How do you know?
+
+Mother. Because they make pictures that look just
+like him.
+
+Son. But, mother--
+
+Mother. Don't "mother" me! You are trying to
+disgrace your parents._
+
+_Question_. I want to ask you a few questions about
+Mr. Talmage's fourth sermon against you, entitled:
+"The Meanness of Infidelity," in which he compares
+you to Jehoiakim, who had the temerity to throw
+some of the writings of the weeping Jeremiah into
+the fire?
+
+_Answer_. So far as I am concerned, I really re-
+gret that a second edition of Jeremiah's roll was
+gotten out. It would have been far better for us all,
+if it had been left in ashes. There was nothing but
+curses and prophecies of evil, in the sacred roll that
+
+138
+
+Jehoiakim burned. The Bible tells us that Jehovah
+became exceedingly wroth because of the destruction
+of this roll, and pronounced a curse upon Jehoiakim
+and upon Palestine. I presume it was on account of
+the burning of that roll that the king of Babylon
+destroyed the chosen people of God. It was on
+account of that sacrilege that the Lord said of
+Jehoiakim: "He shall have none to sit upon the
+"throne of David; and his dead body shall be cast
+"out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the
+"frost." Any one can see how much a dead body
+would suffer under such circumstances. Imagine an
+infinitely wise, good and powerful God taking ven-
+geance on the corpse of a barbarian king! What
+joy there must have been in heaven as the angels
+watched the alternate melting and freezing of the
+dead body of Jehoiakim!
+
+Jeremiah was probably the most accomplished
+croaker of all time. Nothing satisfied him. He was
+a prophetic pessimist,--an ancient Bourbon. He
+was only happy when predicting war, pestilence and
+famine. No wonder Jehoiakim despised him, and
+hated all he wrote.
+
+One can easily see the character of Jeremiah from
+the following occurrence: When the Babylonians
+
+139
+
+had succeeded in taking Jerusalem, and in sacking
+the city, Jeremiah was unfortunately taken prisoner;
+but Captain Nebuzaradan came to Jeremiah, and told
+him that he would let him go, because he had pro-
+phesied against his own country. He was regarded
+as a friend by the enemy.
+
+There was, at that time, as now, the old fight
+between the church and the civil power. Whenever
+a king failed to do what the priests wanted, they
+immediately prophesied overthrow, disaster, and de-
+feat. Whenever the kings would hearken to their
+voice, and would see to it that the priests had plenty
+to eat and drink and wear, then they all declared
+that Jehovah would love that king, would let him live
+out all his days, and allow his son to reign in his
+stead. It was simply the old conflict that is still being
+waged, and it will be carried on until universal civil-
+ization does away with priestcraft and superstition.
+
+The priests in the days of Jeremiah were the same
+as now. They sought to rule the State. They pre-
+tended that, at their request, Jehovah would withhold
+or send the rain; that the seasons were within their
+power; that they with bitter words could blight the
+fields and curse the land with want and death. They
+gloried then, as now, in the exhibition of God's wrath.
+
+140
+
+In prosperity, the priests were forgotten. Success
+scorned them; Famine flattered them; Health laughed
+at them; Pestilence prayed to them; Disaster was
+their only friend.
+
+These old prophets prophesied nothing but evil,
+and consequently, when anything bad happened, they
+claimed it as a fulfillment, and pointed with pride to
+the fact that they had, weeks or months, or years
+before, foretold something of that kind. They were
+really the originators of the phrase, "I told you so!"
+
+There was a good old Methodist class-leader that
+lived down near a place called Liverpool, on the
+Illinois river. In the spring of 1861 the old man,
+telling his experience, among other things said, that he
+had lived there by the river for more than thirty
+years, and he did not believe that a year had passed
+that there were not hundreds of people during the
+hunting season shooting ducks on Sunday; that he
+had told his wife thousands of times that no good
+would come of it; that evil would come of it; "And
+"now, said the old man, raising his voice with the
+importance of the announcement, "war is upon us!"
+
+_Question_. Do you wish, as Mr. Talmage says, to de-
+stroy the Bible--to have all the copies burned to ashes?
+What do you wish to have done with the Bible?
+
+141
+
+_Answer_. I want the Bible treated exactly as we
+treat other books--preserve the good and throw
+away the foolish and the hurtful. I am fighting the
+doctrine of inspiration. As long as it is believed that
+the Bible is inspired, that book is the master--no
+mind is free. With that belief, intellectual liberty is
+impossible. With that belief, you can investigate
+only at the risk of losing your soul. The Catholics
+have a pope. Protestants laugh at them, and yet the
+pope is capable of intellectual advancement. In
+addition to this, the pope is mortal, and the church
+cannot be afflicted with the same idiot forever. The
+Protestants have a book for their pope. The book
+cannot advance. Year after year, and century after
+century, the book remains as ignorant as ever. It is
+only made better by those who believe in its inspira-
+tion giving better meanings to the words than their
+ancestors did. In this way it may be said that the
+Bible grows a little better.
+
+Why should we have a book for a master? That
+which otherwise might be a blessing, remains a curse.
+If every copy of the Bible were destroyed, all that is
+good in that book would be reproduced in a single
+day. Leave every copy of the Bible as it is, and
+have every human being believe in its inspiration,
+
+142
+
+and intellectual liberty would cease to exist. The
+whole race, from that moment, would go back to-
+ward the night of intellectual death.
+
+The Bible would do more harm if more people
+really believed it, and acted in accordance with its
+teachings. Now and then a Freeman puts the knife
+to the heart of his child. Now and then an assassin
+relies upon some sacred passage; but, as a rule, few
+men believe the Bible to be absolutely true.
+
+There are about fifteen hundred million people in
+the world. There are not two million who have read
+the Bible through. There are not two hundred
+million who ever saw the Bible. There are not five
+hundred million who ever heard that such a book
+exists.
+
+Christianity is claimed to be a religion for all
+mankind. It was founded more than eighteen cen-
+turies ago; and yet, not one human being in three
+has ever heard of it. As a matter of fact, for more
+than fourteen centuries and-a-half after the crucifixion
+of Christ, this hemisphere was absolutely unknown.
+There was not a Christian in the world who knew
+there was such a continent as ours, and all the
+inhabitants of this, the New World, were deprived
+of the gospel for fourteen centuries and-a-half, and
+
+143
+
+knew nothing of its blessings until they were in-
+formed by Spanish murderers and marauders. Even
+in the United States, Christianity is not keeping pace
+with the increase of population. When we take
+into consideration that it is aided by the momentum
+of eighteen centuries, is it not wonderful that it is not
+to-day holding its own? The reason of this is, that
+we are beginning to understand the Scriptures. We
+are beginningto see, and to see clearly, that they are
+simply of human origin, and that the Bible bears
+the marks of the barbarians who wrote it. The best
+educated among the clergy admit that we know but
+little as to the origin of the gospels; that we do not
+positively know the author of one of them; that it is
+really a matter of doubt as to who wrote the five
+books attributed to Moses. They admit now, that
+Isaiah was written by more than one person; that
+Solomon's Song was not written by that king; that
+Job is, in all probability, not a Jewish book; that
+Ecclesiastes must have been written by a Freethinker,
+and by one who had his doubts about the immortality
+of the soul. The best biblical students of the so-
+called orthodox world now admit that several stories
+were united to make the gospel of Saint Luke; that
+Hebrews is a selection from many fragments, and
+
+144
+
+that no human being, not afflicted with delirium
+tremens, can understand the book of Revelation.
+
+I am not the only one engaged in the work of
+destruction. Every Protestant who expresses a doubt
+as to the genuineness of a passage, is destroying the
+Bible. The gentlemen who have endeavored to treat
+hell as a question of syntax, and to prove that eternal
+punishment depends upon grammar, are helping to
+bring the Scriptures into contempt. Hundreds of
+years ago, the Catholics told the Protestant world that
+it was dangerous to give the Bible to the people.
+The Catholics were right; the Protestants were
+wrong. To read is to think. To think is to investi-
+gate. To investigate is, finally, to deny. That book
+should have been read only by priests. Every copy
+should have been under the lock and key of bishop,
+cardinal and pope. The common people should have
+received the Bible from the lips of the ministers.
+The world should have been kept in ignorance. In
+that way, and in that way only, could the pulpit have
+maintained its power. He who teaches a child
+the alphabet sows the seeds of heresy. I have lived
+to see the schoolhouse in many a village larger than
+the church. Every man who finds a fact, is the
+enemy of theology. Every man who expresses an
+
+145
+
+honest thought is a soldier in the army of intellectual
+liberty.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage thinks that you laugh too
+much,--that you exhibit too much mirth, and that no
+one should smile at sacred things?
+
+_Answer_. The church has always feared ridicule.
+The minister despises laughter. He who builds upon
+ignorance and awe, fears intelligence and mirth. The
+theologians always begin by saying: "Let us be
+"solemn." They know that credulity and awe are
+twins. They also know that while Reason is the
+pilot of the soul, Humor carries the lamp. Whoever
+has the sense of humor fully developed, cannot, by
+any possibility, be an orthodox theologian. He would
+be his own laughing stock. The most absurd stories,
+the most laughable miracles, read in a solemn, stately
+way, sound to the ears of ignorance and awe like
+truth. It has been the object of the church for
+eighteen hundred years to prevent laughter.
+
+A smile is the dawn of a doubt.
+
+Ministers are always talking about death, and
+coffins, and dust, and worms,--the cross in this life,
+and the fires of another. They have been the
+enemies of human happiness. They hate to hear
+
+146
+
+even the laughter of children. There seems to have
+been a bond of sympathy between divinity and
+dyspepsia, between theology and indigestion. There
+is a certain pious hatred of pleasure, and those who
+have been "born again" are expected to despise
+"the transitory joys of this fleeting life." In this,
+they follow the example of their prophets, of whom
+they proudly say: "They never smiled."
+
+Whoever laughs at a holy falsehood, is called a
+"scoffer." Whoever gives vent to his natural feel-
+ings is regarded as a "blasphemer," and whoever
+examines the Bible as he examines other books, and
+relies upon his reason to interpret it, is denounced
+as a "reprobate."
+
+Let us respect the truth, let us laugh at miracles,
+and above all, let us be candid with each other.
+
+'Question. Mr. Talmage charges that you have, in
+your lectures, satirized your early home; that you
+have described with bitterness the Sundays that were
+forced upon you in your youth; and that in various
+ways you have denounced your father as a "tyrant,"
+or a "bigot," or a "fool"?
+
+_Answer_. I have described the manner in which
+Sunday was kept when I was a boy. My father for
+
+147
+
+many years regarded the Sabbath as a sacred day.
+We kept Sunday as most other Christians did. I think
+that my father made a mistake about that day. I
+have no doubt he was honest about it, and really
+believed that it was pleasing to God for him to keep
+the Sabbath as he did.
+
+I think that Sunday should not be a day of gloom,
+of silence and despair, or a day in which to hear that
+the chances are largely in favor of your being eternally
+damned. That day, in my opinion, should be one of
+joy; a day to get acquainted with your wife and
+children; a day to visit the woods, or the sea, or the
+murmuring stream; a day to gather flowers, to visit
+the graves of your dead, to read old poems, old
+letters, old books; a day to rekindle the fires of
+friendship and love.
+
+Mr. Talmage says that my father was a Christian,
+and he then proceeds to malign his memory. It
+seems to me that a living Christian should at least
+tell the truth about one who sleeps the silent sleep
+of death.
+
+I have said nothing, in any of my lectures, about
+my father, or about my mother, or about any of my
+relatives. I have not the egotism to bring them
+forward. They have nothing to do with the subject
+
+148
+
+in hand. That my father was mistaken upon the
+subject of religion, I have no doubt. He was a good,
+a brave and honest man. I loved him living, and
+I love him dead. I never said to him an unkind
+word, and in my heart there never was of him an
+unkind thought. He was grand enough to say to
+me, that I had the same right to my opinion that he
+had to his. He was great enough to tell me to read
+the Bible for myself, to be honest with myself, and if
+after reading it I concluded it was not the word of
+God, that it was my duty to say so.
+
+My mother died when I was but a child; and from
+that day--the darkest of my life--her memory has
+been within my heart a sacred thing, and I have felt,
+through all these years, her kisses on my lips.
+
+I know that my parents--if they are conscious now
+--do not wish me to honor them at the expense of
+my manhood. I know that neither my father nor my
+mother would have me sacrifice upon their graves my
+honest thought. I know that I can only please them by
+being true to myself, by defending what I believe is
+good, by attacking what I believe is bad. Yet this min-
+ister of Christ is cruel enough, and malicious enough,
+to attack the reputation of the dead. What he says
+about my father is utterly and unqualifiedly false.
+
+149
+
+Right here, it may be well enough for me to say,
+that long before my father died, he threw aside, as
+unworthy of a place in the mind of an intelligent
+man, the infamous dogma of eternal fire; that he
+regarded with abhorrence many passages in the Old
+Testament; that he believed man, in another world,
+would have the eternal opportunity of doing right,
+and that the pity of God would last as long as the
+suffering of man. My father and my mother were
+good, in spite of the Old Testament. They were mer-
+ciful, in spite of the one frightful doctrine in the New.
+They did not need the religion of Presbyterianism.
+Presbyterianism never made a human being better.
+If there is anything that will freeze the generous
+current of the soul, it is Calvinism. If there is any
+creed that will destroy charity, that will keep the
+tears of pity from the cheeks of men and women, it
+is Presbyterianism. If there is any doctrine calcu-
+lated to make man bigoted, unsympathetic, and
+cruel, it is the doctrine of predestination. Neither
+my father, nor my mother, believed in the damnation
+of babes, nor in the inspiration of John Calvin.
+
+Mr. Talmage professes to be a Christian. What
+effect has the religion of Jesus Christ had upon him?
+Is he the product--the natural product--of Chris-
+
+150
+
+tianity? Does the real Christian violate the sanctity
+of death? Does the real Christian malign the
+memory of the dead? Does the good Christian
+defame unanswering and unresisting dust?
+
+But why should I expect kindness from a Chris-
+tian? Can a minister be expected to treat with
+fairness a man whom his God intends to damn? If
+a good God is going to burn an infidel forever, in
+the world to come, surely a Christian should have
+the right to persecute him a little here.
+
+What right has a Christian to ask anybody to love
+his father, or mother, or wife, or child? According
+to the gospels, Christ offered a reward to any one
+who would desert his father or his mother. He
+offered a premium to gentlemen for leaving their
+wives, and tried to bribe people to abandon their
+little children. He offered them happiness in this
+world, and a hundred fold in the next, if they would
+turn a deaf ear to the supplications of a father, the
+beseeching cry of a wife, and would leave the out-
+stretched arms of babes. They were not even
+allowed to bury their fathers and their mothers. At
+that time they were expected to prefer Jesus to their
+wives and children. And now an orthodox minister
+says that a man ought not to express his honest
+
+151
+
+thoughts, because they do not happen to be in accord
+with the belief of his father or mother.
+
+Suppose Mr. Talmage should read the Bible care-
+fully and without fear, and should come to the honest
+conclusion that it is not inspired, what course would
+he pursue for the purpose of honoring his parents?
+Would he say, "I cannot tell the truth, I must lie,
+"for the purpose of shedding a halo of glory around
+"the memory of my mother"? Would he say: "Of
+"course, my father and mother would a thousand
+"times rather have their son a hypocritical Christian
+"than an honest, manly unbeliever"? This might
+please Mr. Talmage, and accord perfectly with his
+view, but I prefer to say, that my father wished me to
+be an honest man. If he is in "heaven" now, I am
+sure that he would rather hear me attack the
+"inspired" word of God, honestly and bravely, than
+to hear me, in the solemn accents of hypocrisy, defend
+what I believe to be untrue.
+
+I may be mistaken in the estimate angels put upon
+human beings. It may be that God likes a pretended
+follower better than an honest, outspoken man--one
+who is an infidel simply because he does not under-
+stand this God. But it seems to me, in my unregenerate
+condition, touched and tainted as I am by original sin,
+
+152
+
+that a God of infinite power and wisdom ought to be
+able to make a man brave enough to have an opinion
+of his own. I cannot conceive of God taking any
+particular pride in any hypocrite he has ever made.
+Whatever he may say through his ministers, or
+whatever the angels may repeat, a manly devil
+stands higher in my estimation than an unmanly
+angel. I do not mean by this, that there are any
+unmanly angels, neither do I pretend that there
+are any manly devils. My meaning is this: If I have
+a Creator, I can only honor him by being true to
+myself, and kind and just to my fellow-men. If I wish
+to shed lustre upon my father and mother, I can
+only do so by being absolutely true to myself.
+Never will I lay the wreath of hypocrisy upon the
+tombs of those I love.
+
+Mr. Talmage takes the ground that we must defend
+the religious belief of our parents. He seems to
+forget that all parents do not believe exactly alike,
+and that everybody has at least two parents. Now,
+suppose that the father is an infidel, and the mother
+a Christian, what must the son do? Must he "drive
+"the ploughshare of contempt through the grave of
+"the father," for the purpose of honoring the mother;
+or must he drive the ploughshare through the grave
+
+153
+
+of the mother to honor the father; or must he com-
+promise, and talk one way and believe another? If
+Mr. Talmage's doctrine is correct, only persons who
+have no knowledge of their parents can have liberty
+of opinion. Foundlings would be the only free
+people. I do not suppose that Mr. Talmage would
+go so far as to say that a child would be bound by
+the religion of the person upon whose door-steps he
+was found. If he does not, then over every foundling
+hospital should be these words: "Home of Intel-
+"lectual Liberty."
+
+_Question_. Do you suppose that we will care
+nothing in the next world for those we loved in this?
+Is it worse in a man than in an angel, to care nothing
+for his mother?
+
+_Answer_. According to Mr. Talmage, a man can
+be perfectly happy in heaven, with his mother in hell.
+He will be so entranced with the society of Christ,
+that he will not even inquire what has become of his
+wife. The Holy Ghost will keep him in such a state
+of happy wonder, of ecstatic joy, that the names,
+even, of his children will never invade his memory.
+It may be that I am lacking in filial affection, but
+I would much rather be in hell, with my parents
+
+154
+
+in heaven, than be in heaven with my parents in hell.
+I think a thousand times more of my parents than I
+do of Christ. They knew me, they worked for me,
+they loved me, and I can imagine no heaven, no
+state of perfect bliss for me, in which they have no
+share. If God hates me, because I love them,
+I cannot love him.
+
+I cannot truthfully say that I look forward with any
+great degree of joy, to meeting with Haggai and
+Habakkuk; with Jeremiah, Nehemiah, Obadiah,
+Zechariah or Zephaniah; with Ezekiel, Micah, or
+Malachi; or even with Jonah. From what little
+I have read of their writings, I have not formed a
+very high opinion of the social qualities of these
+gentlemen.
+
+I want to meet the persons I have known; and if
+there is another life, I want to meet the really and
+the truly great--men who have been broad enough to
+be tender, and great enough to be kind.
+
+Because I differ with my parents, because I am
+convinced that my father was wrong in some of
+his religious opinions, Mr. Talmage insists that I dis-
+grace my parents. How did the Christian religion
+commence? Did not the first disciples advocate
+theories that their parents denied? Were they
+
+155
+
+not false,--in his sense of the word,--to their
+fathers and mothers? How could there have been
+any progress in this world, if children had not
+gone beyond their parents? Do you consider that
+the inventor of a steel plow cast a slur upon his
+father who scratched the ground with a wooden
+one? I do not consider that an invention by the
+son is a slander upon the father; I regard each
+invention simply as an improvement; and every
+father should be exceedingly proud of an ingenious
+son. If Mr. Talmage has a son, it will be impossible
+for him to honor his father except by differing with
+him.
+
+It is very strange that Mr. Talmage, a believer in
+Christ, should object to any man for not loving his
+mother and his father, when his Master, according
+to the gospel of Saint Luke, says: "If any man
+"come to me, and hate not his father, and mother,
+"and wife, and children, and brethren, and sis-
+"ters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my
+"disciple."
+
+According to this, I have to make my choice be-
+tween my wife, my children, and Jesus Christ. I have
+concluded to stand by my folks--both in this world,
+and in "the world to come."
+
+156
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage asks you whether, in your
+judgment, the Bible was a good, or an evil, to your
+parents?
+
+_Answer_. I think it was an evil. The worst thing
+about my father was his religion. He would have
+been far happier, in my judgment, without it. I
+think I get more real joy out of life than he did.
+He was a man of a very great and tender heart. He
+was continually thinking--for many years of his
+life--of the thousands and thousands going down to
+eternal fire. That doctrine filled his days with
+gloom, and his eyes with tears. I think that my
+father and mother would have been far happier had
+they believed as I do. How any one can get any
+joy out of the Christian religion is past my compre-
+hension. If that religion is true, hundreds of mil-
+lions are now in hell, and thousands of millions yet
+unborn will be. How such a fact can form any part
+of the "glad tidings of great joy," is amazing to me.
+It is impossible for me to love a being who would
+create countless millions for eternal pain. It is
+impossible for me to worship the God of the Bible,
+or the God of Calvin, or the God of the Westminster
+Catechism.
+
+157
+
+_Question_. I see that Mr. Talmage challenges you
+to read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John. Are
+you willing to accept the challenge; or have you
+ever read that chapter?
+
+_Answer_. I do not claim to be very courageous,
+but I have read that chapter, and am very glad that
+Mr. Talmage has called attention to it. According
+to the gospels, Christ did many miracles. He healed
+the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the lame
+walk, and raised the dead. In the fourteenth chapter
+of Saint John, twelfth verse, I find the following:
+
+"Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that believeth
+"on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and
+"greater works than these shall he do, because I go
+"unto my Father."
+
+I am willing to accept that as a true test of a
+believer. If Mr. Talmage really believes in Jesus
+Christ, he ought to be able to do at least as great
+miracles as Christ is said to have done. Will Mr.
+Talmage have the kindness to read the fourteenth
+chapter of John, and then give me some proof, in
+accordance with that chapter, that he is a believer in
+Jesus Christ? Will he have the kindness to perform
+a miracle?--for instance, produce a "local flood,"
+make a worm to smite a gourd, or "prepare a fish"?
+
+158
+
+Can he do anything of that nature? Can he even
+cause a "vehement east wind"? What evidence,
+according to the Bible, can Mr. Talmage give of his
+belief? How does he prove that he is a Christian?
+By hating infidels and maligning Christians? Let
+Mr. Talmage furnish the evidence, according to the
+fourteenth chapter of Saint John, or forever after
+hold his peace.
+
+He has my thanks for calling my attention to the
+fourteenth chapter of Saint John.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges that you are at-
+tempting to destroy the "chief solace of the world,"
+without offering any substitute. How do you answer
+this?
+
+_Answer_. If he calls Christianity the "chief solace
+"of the world," and if by Christianity he means that all
+who do not believe in the inspiration of the Scrip-
+tures, and have no faith in Jesus Christ, are to be
+eternally damned, then I admit that I am doing the
+best I can to take that "solace" from the human
+heart. I do not believe that the Bible, when prop-
+erly understood, is, or ever has been, a comfort to
+any human being. Surely, no good man can be
+comforted by reading a book in which he finds that
+
+159
+
+a large majority of mankind have been sentenced to
+eternal fire. In the doctrine of total depravity there
+is no "solace." In the doctrine of "election" there can
+be no joy until the returns are in, and a majority
+found for you.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage says that you are taking
+away the world's medicines, and in place of anaes-
+thetics, in place of laudanum drops, you read an
+essay to the man in pain, on the absurdities of mor-
+phine and nervines in general.
+
+_Answer_. It is exactly the other way. I say, let
+us depend upon morphine, not upon prayer. Do
+not send for the minister--take a little laudanum.
+Do not read your Bible,--chloroform is better. Do
+not waste your time listening to meaningless ser-
+mons, but take real, genuine soporifics.
+
+I regard the discoverer of ether as a benefactor.
+I look upon every great surgeon as a blessing to
+mankind. I regard one doctor, skilled in his profes-
+sion, of more importance to the world than all the
+orthodox ministers.
+
+Mr. Talmage should remember that for hundreds
+of years, the church fought, with all its power, the
+science of medicine. Priests used to cure diseases
+
+160
+
+by selling little pieces of paper covered with cabalistic
+marks. They filled their treasuries by the sale of
+holy water. They healed the sick by relics--the teeth
+and ribs of saints, the finger-nails of departed wor-
+thies, and the hair of glorified virgins. Infidelity
+said: "Send for the doctor." Theology said: "Stick
+"to the priest." Infidelity,--that is to say, science,--
+said: "Vaccinate him." The priest said: "Pray;--
+"I will sell you a charm." The doctor was regarded
+as a man who was endeavoring to take from God his
+means of punishment. He was supposed to spike
+the artillery of Jehovah, to wet the powder of the
+Almighty, and to steal the flint from the musket of
+heavenly retribution.
+
+Infidelity has never relied upon essays, it has
+never relied upon words, it has never relied upon
+prayers, it has never relied upon angels or gods; it
+has relied upon the honest efforts of men and women.
+It has relied upon investigation, observation, experi-
+ence, and above all, upon human reason.
+
+We, in America, know how much prayers are
+worth. We have lately seen millions of people upon
+their knees. What was the result?
+
+In the olden times, when a plague made its ap-
+pearance, the people fell upon their knees and died.
+
+161
+
+When pestilence came, they rushed to their ca-
+thedrals, they implored their priests--and died. God
+had no pity upon his ignorant children. At last,
+Science came to the rescue. Science,--not in the
+attitude of prayer, with closed eyes, but in the atti-
+tude of investigation, with open eyes,--looked for and
+discovered some of the laws of health. Science
+found that cleanliness was far better than godliness. It
+said: Do not spend your time in praying;--clean your
+houses, clean your streets, clean yourselves. This pest-
+ilence is not a punishment. Health is not simply a favor
+of the gods. Health depends upon conditions, and
+when the conditions are violated, disease is inevitable,
+and no God can save you. Health depends upon
+your surroundings, and when these are favorable,
+the roses are in your cheeks.
+
+We find in the Old Testament that God gave
+to Moses a thousand directions for ascertaining
+the presence of leprosy. Yet it never occurred
+to this God to tell Moses how to cure the disease.
+Within the lids of the Old Testament, we have no
+information upon a subject of such vital importance
+to mankind.
+
+It may, however, be claimed by Mr. Talmage, that
+this statement is a little too broad, and I will therefore
+
+162
+
+give one recipe that I find in the fourteenth chapter
+of Leviticus:
+
+"Then shall the priest command to take for him
+" that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and
+"cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop; and the priest
+"shall command that one of the birds be killed in an
+"earthen vessel over running water. As for the
+"living bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood,
+"and the scarlet, and the hyssop, and shall dip them
+"and the living bird in the blood of the bird that was
+"killed over the running water. And he shall
+"sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the
+"leprosy seven times, and shall pronounce him clean,
+"and shall let the living bird loose into the open
+"field."
+
+Prophets were predicting evil--filling the country
+with their wails and cries, and yet it never occurred
+to them to tell one solitary thing of the slightest
+importance to mankind. Why did not these inspired
+men tell us how to cure some of the diseases that
+have decimated the world? Instead of spending
+forty days and forty nights with Moses, telling him
+how to build a large tent, and how to cut the gar-
+ments of priests, why did God not give him a little
+useful information in respect to the laws of health?
+
+163
+
+Mr. Talmage must remember that the church has
+invented no anodynes, no anaesthetics, no medicines,
+and has affected no cures. The doctors have not
+been inspired. All these useful things men have
+discovered for themselves, aided by no prophet and
+by no divine Savior. Just to the extent that man
+has depended upon the other world, he has failed to
+make the best of this. Just in the proportion that he
+has depended on his own efforts, he has advanced.
+The church has always said:
+
+"Consider the lilies of the field; they toil not,
+"neither do they spin." "Take no thought for the
+"morrow." Whereas, the real common sense of this
+world has said: "No matter whether lilies toil and
+spin, or not, if you would succeed, you must work;
+you must take thought for the morrow, you must
+look beyond the present day, you must provide for
+your wife and your children."
+
+What can I be expected to give as a substitute for
+perdition? It is enough to show that it does not
+exist. What does a man want in place of a disease?
+Health. And what is better calculated to increase
+the happiness of mankind than to know that the
+doctrine of eternal pain is infinitely and absurdly
+false?
+
+164
+
+Take theology from the world, and natural Love
+remains, Science is still here, Music will not be lost,
+the page of History will still be open, the walls of
+the world will still be adorned with Art, and the
+niches rich with Sculpture.
+
+Take theology from the world, and we all shall
+have a common hope,--and the fear of hell will be
+removed from every human heart.
+
+Take theology from the world, and millions of
+men will be compelled to earn an honest living.
+Impudence will not tax credulity. The vampire of
+hypocrisy will not suck the blood of honest toil.
+
+Take theology from the world, and the churches
+can be schools, and the cathedrals universities.
+
+Take theology from the world, and the money
+wasted on superstition will do away with want.
+
+Take theology from the world, and every brain
+will find itself without a chain.
+
+There is a vast difference between what is called
+infidelity and theology.
+
+Infidelity is honest. When it reaches the confines
+of reason, it says: "I know no further."
+
+Infidelity does not palm its guess upon an ignorant
+world as a demonstration.
+
+165
+
+Infidelity proves nothing by slander--establishes
+nothing by abuse.
+
+Infidelity has nothing to hide. It has no "holy
+"of holies," except the abode of truth. It has no
+curtain that the hand of investigation has not the
+right to draw aside. It lives in the cloudless light,
+in the very noon, of human eyes.
+
+Infidelity has no bible to be blasphemed. It does
+not cringe before an angry God.
+
+Infidelity says to every man: Investigate for
+yourself. There is no punishment for unbelief.
+
+Infidelity asks no protection from legislatures. It
+wants no man fined because he contradicts its doc-
+trines.
+
+Infidelity relies simply upon evidence--not evi-
+dence of the dead, but of the living.
+
+Infidelity has no infallible pope. It relies only
+upon infallible fact. It has no priest except the
+interpreter of Nature. The universe is its church.
+Its bible is everything that is true. It implores every
+man to verify every word for himself, and it implores
+him to say, if he does not believe it, that he does
+not.
+
+Infidelity does not fear contradiction. It is not
+afraid of being laughed at. It invites the scrutiny
+
+166
+
+of all doubters, of all unbelievers. It does not rely
+upon awe, but upon reason. It says to the whole
+world: It is dangerous not to think. It is dan-
+gerous not to be honest. It is dangerous not to
+investigate. It is dangerous not to follow where
+your reason leads.
+
+Infidelity requires every man to judge for himself.
+Infidelity preserves the manhood of man.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage also says that you are
+trying to put out the light-houses on the coast of the
+next world; that you are "about to leave everybody
+"in darkness at the narrows of death"?
+
+_Answer_. There can be no necessity for these
+light-houses, unless the God of Mr. Talmage has
+planted rocks and reefs within that unknown sea.
+If there is no hell, there is no need of any light-
+house on the shores of the next world; and only
+those are interested in keeping up these pretended
+light-houses who are paid for trimming invisible
+wicks and supplying the lamps with allegorical oil.
+Mr. Talmage is one of these light-house keepers,
+and he knows that if it is ascertained that the coast
+is not dangerous, the light-house will be abandoned,
+and the keeper will have to find employment else-
+
+167
+
+where. As a matter of fact, every church is a use-
+less light-house. It warns us only against breakers
+that do not exist. Whenever a mariner tells one of
+the keepers that there is no danger, then all the
+keepers combine to destroy the reputation of that
+mariner.
+
+No one has returned from the other world to tell
+us whether they have light-houses on that shore or
+not; or whether the light-houses on this shore--one
+of which Mr. Talmage is tending--have ever sent a
+cheering ray across the sea.
+
+Nature has furnished every human being with
+a light more or less brilliant, more or less powerful.
+That light is Reason; and he who blows that light
+out, is in utter darkness. It has been the business of
+the church for centuries to extinguish the lamp of the
+mind, and to convince the people that their own
+reason is utterly unreliable. The church has asked
+all men to rely only upon the light of the church.
+
+Every priest has been not only a light-house but
+a guide-board. He has threatened eternal damna-
+tion to all who travel on some other road. These
+guide-boards have been toll-gates, and the principal
+reason why the churches have wanted people to go
+their road is, that tolls might be collected. They
+
+168
+
+have regarded unbelievers as the owners of turnpikes
+do people who go 'cross lots. The toll-gate man
+always tells you that other roads are dangerous--
+filled with quagmires and quicksands.
+
+Every church is a kind of insurance society, and
+proposes, for a small premium, to keep you from
+eternal fire. Of course, the man who tells you that
+there is to be no fire, interferes with the business,
+and is denounced as a malicious meddler and blas-
+phemer. The fires of this world sustain the same
+relation to insurance companies that the fires of the
+next do to the churches.
+
+Mr. Talmage also insists that I am breaking up the
+"life-boats." Why should a ship built by infinite
+wisdom, by an infinite shipbuilder, carry life-boats?
+The reason we have life-boats now is, that we are
+not entirely sure of the ship. We know that man
+has not yet found out how to make a ship that can
+certainly brave all the dangers of the deep. For this
+reason we carry life-boats. But infinite wisdom must
+surely build ships that do not need life-boats. Is there
+to be a wreck at last? Is God's ship to go down in
+storm and darkness? Will it be necessary at last to
+forsake his ship and depend upon life-boats?
+
+For my part, I do not wish to be rescued by a life-
+
+169
+
+boat. When the ship, bearing the whole world, goes
+down, I am willing to go down with it--with my
+wife, with my children, and with those I have loved.
+I will not slip ashore in an orthodox canoe with
+somebody else's folks,--I will stay with my own.
+
+What a picture is presented by the church! A few
+in life's last storm are to be saved; and the saved,
+when they reach shore, are to look back with joy
+upon the great ship going down to the eternal depths!
+This is what I call the unutterable meanness of or-
+thodox Christianity.
+
+Mr. Talmage speaks of the "meanness of in-
+"fidelity."
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity permits the
+husband to be saved, and to be ineffably happy, while
+the wife of his bosom is suffering the tortures of hell.
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity tells the
+boy that he can go to heaven and have an eternity
+of bliss, and that this bliss will not even be clouded
+by the fact that the mother who bore him writhes in
+eternal pain.
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity allows
+a soul to be so captivated with the companionship
+of angels as to forget all the old loves and friend-
+ships of this world.
+
+170
+
+The meanness of orthodox Christianity, its un-
+speakable selfishness, allows a soul in heaven to exult
+in the fact of its own salvation, and at the same time
+to care nothing for the damnation of all the rest.
+
+The orthodox Christian says that if he can only
+save his little soul, if he can barely squeeze into
+heaven, if he can only get past Saint Peter's gate,
+if he can by hook or crook climb up the opposite
+bank of Jordan, if he can get a harp in his hand, it
+matters not to him what becomes of brother or
+sister, father or mother, wife or child. He is willing
+that they should burn if he can sing.
+
+Oh, the unutterable meanness of orthodox Chris-
+tianity, the infinite heartlessness of the orthodox
+angels, who with tearless eyes will forever gaze upon
+the agonies of those who were once blood of their
+blood and flesh of their flesh!
+
+Mr. Talmage describes a picture of the scourging
+of Christ, painted by Rubens, and he tells us that
+he was so appalled by this picture--by the sight of
+the naked back, swollen and bleeding--that he could
+not have lived had he continued to look; yet this
+same man, who could not bear to gaze upon a
+painted pain, expects to be perfectly happy in heaven,
+while countiess billions of actual--not painted--men,
+
+171
+
+women, and children writhe--not in a pictured flame,
+but in the real and quenchless fires of hell.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage also claims that we are
+indebted to Christianity for schools, colleges, univer-
+sities, hospitals and asylums?
+
+_Answer_. This shows that Mr. Talmage has not
+read the history of the world. Long before Chris-
+tianity had a place, there were vast libraries. There
+were thousands of schools before a Christian existed
+on the earth. There were hundreds of hospitals
+before a line of the New Testament was written.
+Hundreds of years before Christ, there were hospitals
+in India,--not only for men, women and children, but
+even for beasts. There were hospitals in Egypt long
+before Moses was born. They knew enough then
+to cure insanity with music. They surrounded the
+insane with flowers, and treated them with kindness.
+
+The great libraries at Alexandria were not Chris-
+tian. The most intellectual nation of the Middle
+Ages was not Christian. While Christians were
+imprisoning people for saying that the earth is round,
+the Moors in Spain were teaching geography with
+globes. They had even calculated the circumference
+of the earth by the tides of the Red Sea.
+
+Where did education come from? For a thousand
+
+172
+
+years Christianity destroyed books and paintings and
+statues. For a thousand years Christianity was filled
+with hatred toward every effort of the human mind.
+We got paper from the Moors. Printing had been
+known thousands of years before, in China. A few
+manuscripts, containing a portion of the literature of
+Greece, a few enriched with the best thoughts of
+the Roman world, had been preserved from the
+general wreck and ruin wrought by Christian hate.
+These became the seeds of intellectual progress.
+For a thousand years Christianity controlled Europe.
+The Mohammedans were far in advance of the
+Christians with hospitals and asylums and institutions
+of learning.
+
+Just in proportion that we have done away with
+what is known as orthodox Christianity, humanity
+has taken its place. Humanity has built all the asy-
+lums, all the hospitals. Humanity, not Christianity,
+has done these things. The people of this country
+are all willing to be taxed that the insane may be
+cared for, that the sick, the helpless, and the desti-
+tute may be provided for, not because they are
+Christians, but because they are humane; and they
+are not humane because they are Christians.
+
+The colleges of this country have been poisoned by
+
+173
+
+theology, and their usefulness almost destroyed. Just
+in proportion that they have gotten from ecclesiastical
+control, they have become a good. That college, to-
+day, which has the most religion has the least true
+learning; and that college which is the nearest free,
+does the most good. Colleges that pit Moses against
+modern geology, that undertake to overthrow the
+Copernican system by appealing to Joshua, have
+done, and are doing, very little good in this world.
+
+Suppose that in the first century Pagans had said
+to Christians: Where are your hospitals, where are
+your asylums, where are your works of charity, where
+are your colleges and universities?
+
+The Christians undoubtedly would have replied:
+We have not been in power. There are but few
+of us. We have been persecuted to that degree
+that it has been about as much as we could do to
+maintain ourselves.
+
+Reasonable Pagans would have regarded such an
+answer as perfectly satisfactory. Yet that question
+could have been asked of Christianity after it had
+held the reins of power for a thousand years, and
+Christians would have been compelled to say: We
+have no universities, we have no colleges, we have
+no real asylums.
+
+174
+
+The Christian now asks of the atheist: Where
+is your asylum, where is your hospital, where is your
+university? And the atheist answers: There have
+been but few atheists. The world is not yet suffi-
+ciently advanced to produce them. For hundreds
+and hundreds of years, the minds of men have been
+darkened by the superstitions of Christianity. Priests
+have thundered against human knowledge, have de-
+nounced human reason, and have done all within
+their power to prevent the real progress of mankind.
+
+You must also remember that Christianity has
+made more lunatics than it ever provided asylums
+for. Christianity has driven more men and women
+crazy than all other religions combined. Hundreds
+and thousands and millions have lost their reason in
+contemplating the monstrous falsehoods of Chris-
+tianity. Thousands of mothers, thinking of their
+sons in hell--thousands of fathers, believing their
+boys and girls in perdition, have lost their reason.
+
+So, let it be distinctly understood, that Christianity
+has made ten lunatics--twenty--one hundred--
+where it has provided an asylum for one.
+
+Mr. Talmage also speaks of the hospitals. When
+we take into consideration the wars that have been
+waged on account of religion, the countless thou-
+
+175
+
+sands who have been maimed and wounded, through
+all the years, by wars produced by theology--then I
+say that Christianity has not built hospitals enough
+to take care of her own wounded--not enough to
+take care of one in a hundred. Where Christianity
+has bound up the wounds of one, it has pierced the
+bodies of a hundred others with sword and spear,
+with bayonet and ball. Where she has provided
+one bed in a hospital, she has laid away a hundred
+bodies in bloody graves.
+
+Of course I do not expect the church to do
+anything but beg. Churches produce nothing. They
+are like the lilies of the field. "They toil not, neither
+"do they spin, yet Solomon in all his glory was not
+"arrayed like most of them."
+
+The churches raise no corn nor wheat. They
+simply collect tithes. They carry the alms' dish.
+They pass the plate. They take toll. Of course
+a mendicant is not expected to produce anything.
+He does not support,--he is supported. The church
+does not help. She receives, she devours, she
+consumes, and she produces only discord. She ex-
+changes mistakes for provisions, faith for food,
+prayers for pence. The church is a beggar. But we
+have this consolation: In this age of the world, this
+
+176
+
+beggar is not on horseback, and even the walking is
+not good.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage says that infidels have
+done no good?
+
+_Answer_. Well, let us see. In the first place,
+what is an "infidel"? He is simply a man in advance
+of his time. He is an intellectual pioneer. He is
+the dawn of a new day. He is a gentleman with an
+idea of his own, for which he gave no receipt to the
+church. He is a man who has not been branded as
+the property of some one else. An "infidel" is one
+who has made a declaration of independence. In
+other words, he is a man who has had a doubt. To
+have a doubt means that you have thought upon
+the subject--that you have investigated the question;
+and he who investigates any religion will doubt.
+
+All the advance that has been made in the religious
+world has been made by "infidels," by "heretics,"
+by "skeptics," by doubters,--that is to say, by
+thoughtful men. The doubt does not come from the
+ignorant members of your congregations. Heresy is
+not born of stupidity,--it is not the child of the brain-
+less. He who is so afraid of hurting the reputation
+of his father and mother that he refuses to advance,
+
+177
+
+is not a "heretic." The "heretic" is not true to
+falsehood. Orthodoxy is. He who stands faithfully
+by a mistake is "orthodox." He who, discovering
+that it is a mistake, has the courage to say so, is an
+"infidel."
+
+An infidel is an intellectual discoverer--one who
+finds new isles, new continents, in the vast realm of
+thought. The dwellers on the orthodox shore de-
+nounce this brave sailor of the seas as a buccaneer.
+
+And yet we are told that the thinkers of new
+thoughts have never been of value to the world.
+Voltaire did more for human liberty than all the
+orthodox ministers living and dead. He broke a
+thousand times more chains than Luther. Luther
+simply substituted his chain for that of the Catholics.
+Voltaire had none. The Encyclopaedists of France
+did more for liberty than all the writers upon theology.
+Bruno did more for mankind than millions of "be-
+"lievers." Spinoza contributed more to the growth
+of the human intellect than all the orthodox theolo-
+gians.
+
+Men have not done good simply because they have
+believed this or that doctrine. They have done good
+in the intellectual world as they have thought and
+secured for others the liberty to think and to ex-
+
+178
+
+press their thoughts. They have done good in the
+physical world by teaching their fellows how to
+triumph over the obstructions of nature. Every
+man who has taught his fellow-man to think, has
+been a benefactor. Every one who has supplied his
+fellow-men with facts, and insisted upon their right
+to think, has been a blessing to his kind.
+
+Mr. Talmage, in order to show what Christians
+have done, points us to Whitefield, Luther, Oberlin,
+Judson, Martyn, Bishop Mcllvaine and Hannah
+More. I would not for one moment compare George
+Whitefield with the inventor of movable type, and
+there is no parallel between Frederick Oberlin and
+the inventor of paper; not the slightest between
+Martin Luther and the discoverer of the New World;
+not the least between Adoniram Judson and the in-
+ventor of the reaper, nor between Henry Martyn
+and the discoverer of photography. Of what use to
+the world was Bishop Mcllvaine, compared with
+the inventor of needles? Of what use were a
+hundred such priests compared with the inventor
+of matches, or even of clothes-pins? Suppose that
+Hannah More had never lived? about the same
+number would read her writings now. It is hardly fair
+to compare her with the inventor of the steamship?
+
+179
+
+The progress of the world--its present improved
+condition--can be accounted for only by the discov-
+eries of genius, only by men who have had the
+courage to express their honest thoughts.
+
+After all, the man who invented the telescope
+found out more about heaven than the closed eyes of
+prayer had ever discovered. I feel absolutely certain
+that the inventor of the steam engine was a greater
+benefactor to mankind than the writer of the Presby-
+terian creed. I may be mistaken, but I think that
+railways have done more to civilize mankind, than any
+system of theology. I believe that the printing press
+has done more for the world than the pulpit. It is
+my opinion that the discoveries of Kepler did a
+thousand times more to enlarge the minds of men
+than the prophecies of Daniel. I feel under far
+greater obligation to Humboldt than to Haggai.
+The inventor of the plow did more good than the
+maker of the first rosary--because, say what you
+will, plowing is better than praying; we can live by
+plowing without praying, but we can not live by
+praying without plowing. So I put my faith in the
+plow.
+
+As Jehovah has ceased to make garments for his
+children,--as he has stopped making coats of skins,
+
+180
+
+I have great respect for the inventors of the spinning-
+jenny and the sewing machine. As no more laws
+are given from Sinai, I have admiration for the real
+statesmen. As miracles have ceased, I rely on
+medicine, and on a reasonable compliance with the
+conditions of health.
+
+I have infinite respect for the inventors, the
+thinkers, the discoverers, and above all, for the un-
+known millions who have, without the hope of fame,
+lived and labored for the ones they loved.
+
+
+
+
+FIFTH INTERVIEW,
+
+_Parson. You had belter join the church; it is
+the safer way.
+
+Sinner. I can't live up to your doctrines, and you
+know it.
+
+Parson. Well, you can come as near it in the
+church as out; and forgiveness
+
+will be easier if you join us.
+
+Sinner. What do you mean by that?
+
+Parson. I will tell you. If you join the church,
+and happen to back-slide now and then, Christ will
+say to his Father: "That man is a "friend of mine,
+and you may charge his account to me."_
+
+_Question_. What have you to say about the
+fifth sermon of the Rev. Mr. Talmage in reply
+to you?
+
+_Answer_. The text from which he preached is:
+"Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
+I am compelled to answer these questions in the
+negative. That is one reason why I am an infidel.
+I do not believe that anybody can gather grapes of
+thorns, or figs of thistles. That is exactly my doctrine.
+But the doctrine of the church is, that you can. The
+
+184
+
+church says, that just at the last, no matter if you
+have spent your whole life in raising thorns and thistles,
+in planting and watering and hoeing and plowing
+thorns and thistles--that just at the last, if you will
+repent, between hoeing the last thistle and taking the
+last breath, you can reach out the white and palsied
+hand of death and gather from every thorn a cluster
+of grapes and from every thistle an abundance of
+figs. The church insists that in this way you can
+gather enough grapes and figs to last you through all
+eternity.
+
+My doctrine is, that he who raises thorns must
+harvest thorns. If you sow thorns, you must reap
+thorns; and there is no way by which an innocent
+being can have the thorns you raise thrust into his
+brow, while you gather his grapes.
+
+But Christianity goes even further than this. It
+insists that a man can plant grapes and gather thorns.
+Mr. Talmage insists that, no matter how good you
+are, no matter how kind, no matter how much you
+love your wife and children, no matter how many
+self-denying acts you do, you will not be allowed to
+eat of the grapes you raise; that God will step be-
+tween you and the natural consequences of your
+goodness, and not allow you to reap what you sow.
+
+185
+
+Mr. Talmage insists, that if you have no faith in the
+Lord Jesus Christ, although you have been good
+here, you will reap eternal pain as your harvest; that
+the effect of honesty and kindness will not be peace
+and joy, but agony and pain. So that the church
+does insist not only that you can gather grapes from
+thorns, but thorns from grapes.
+
+I believe exactly the other way. If a man is a
+good man here, dying will not change him, and he
+will land on the shore of another world--if there is
+one--the same good man that he was when he left
+this; and I do not believe there is any God in this
+universe who can afford to damn a good man. This
+God will say to this man: You loved your wife,
+your children, and your friends, and I love you.
+You treated others with kindness; I will treat you
+in the same way. But Mr. Talmage steps up to
+his God, nudges his elbow, and says: Although he
+was a very good man, he belonged to no church;
+he was a blasphemer; he denied the whale story, and
+after I explained that Jonah was only in the whale's
+mouth, he still denied it; and thereupon Mr. Tal-
+mage expects that his infinite God will fly in a
+passion, and in a perfect rage will say: What! did
+he deny that story? Let him be eternally damned!
+
+186
+
+Not only this, but Mr. Talmage insists that a man
+may have treated his wife like a wild beast; may have
+trampled his child beneath the feet of his rage; may
+have lived a life of dishonesty, of infamy, and yet,
+having repented on his dying bed, having made his
+peace with God through the intercession of his Son,
+he will be welcomed in heaven with shouts of joy.
+I deny it. I do not believe that angels can be so
+quickly made from rascals. I have but little confi-
+dence in repentance without restitution, and a hus-
+band who has driven a wife to insanity and death by
+his cruelty--afterward repenting and finding himself
+in heaven, and missing his wife,--were he worthy to
+be an angel, would wander through all the gulfs of
+hell until he clasped her once again..
+
+Now, the next question is, What must be done with
+those who are sometimes good and sometimes bad?
+That is my condition. If there is another world, I
+expect to have the same opportunity of behaving
+myself that I have here. If, when I get there, I fail
+to act as I should, I expect to reap what I sow. If,
+when I arrive at the New Jerusalem, I go into the
+thorn business, I expect to harvest what I plant. If
+I am wise enough to start a vineyard, I expect to
+have grapes in the early fall. But if I do there as I
+
+187
+
+have done here--plant some grapes and some thorns,
+and harvest them together--I expect to fare very
+much as I have fared here. But I expect year by
+year to grow wiser, to plant fewer thorns every
+spring, and more grapes.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges that you have
+taken the ground that the Bible is a cruel book, and
+has produced cruel people?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, I have taken that ground, and I
+maintain it. The Bible was produced by cruel people,
+and in its turn it has produced people like its authors.
+The extermination of the Canaanites was cruel.
+Most of the laws of Moses were bloodthirsty and
+cruel. Hundreds of offences were punishable by
+death, while now, in civilized countries, there are only
+two crimes for which the punishment is capital. I
+charge that Moses and Joshua and David and Samuel
+and Solomon were cruel. I believe that to read and
+believe the Old Testament naturally makes a man
+careless of human life. That book has produced
+hundreds of religious wars, and it has furnished the
+battle-cries of bigotry for fifteen hundred years.
+
+The Old Testament is filled with cruelty, but its
+cruelty stops with this world, its malice ends with
+
+188
+
+death; whenever its victim has reached the grave,
+revenge is satisfied. Not so with the New Testament.
+It pursues its victim forever. After death, comes
+hell; after the grave, the worm that never dies. So
+that, as a matter of fact, the New Testament is in-
+finitely more cruel than the Old.
+
+Nothing has so tended to harden the human heart
+as the doctrine of eternal punishment, and that
+passage: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be
+"saved, and he that believeth not shall be damned,"
+has shed more blood than all the other so-called
+"sacred books" of all this world.
+
+I insist that the Bible is cruel. The Bible invented
+instruments of torture. The Bible laid the foundations
+of the Inquisition. The Bible furnished the fagots and
+the martyrs. The Bible forged chains not only for the
+hands, but for the brains of men. The Bible was at
+the bottom of the massacre of St. Bartholomew.
+Every man who has been persecuted for religion's
+sake has been persecuted by the Bible. That sacred
+book has been a beast of prey.
+
+The truth is, Christians have been good in spite of
+the Bible. The Bible has lived upon the reputations of
+good men and good women,--men and women who
+were good notwithstanding the brutality they found
+
+
+189
+
+upon the inspired page. Men have said: "My mother
+"believed in the Bible; my mother was good; there-
+"fore, the Bible is good," when probably the mother
+never read a chapter in it.
+
+The Bible produced the Church of Rome, and
+Torquemada was a product of the Bible. Philip of
+Spain and the Duke of Alva were produced by the
+Bible. For thirty years Europe was one vast battle-
+field, and the war was produced by the Bible. The re-
+vocation of the Edict of Nantes was produced by the
+sacred Scriptures. The instruments of torture--the
+pincers, the thumb-screws, the racks, were produced
+by the word of God. The Quakers of New England
+were whipped and burned by the Bible--their children
+were stolen by the Bible. The slave-ship had for its
+sails the leaves of the Bible. Slavery was upheld in
+the United States by the Bible. The Bible was the
+auction-block. More than this, worse than this,
+infinitely beyond the computation of imagination, the
+despotisms of the old world all rested and still rest
+upon the Bible. "The powers that be" were sup-
+posed to have been "ordained of God;" and he who
+rose against his king periled his soul.
+
+In this connection, and in order to show the state
+of society when the church had entire control of civil
+
+190
+
+and ecclesiastical affairs, it may be well enough to
+read the following, taken from the _New York Sun_ of
+March 21, 1882. From this little extract, it will be
+easy in the imagination to re-organize the government
+that then existed, and to see clearly the state of so-
+ciety at that time. This can be done upon the same
+principle that one scale tells of the entire fish, or one
+bone of the complete animal:
+
+"From records in the State archives of Hesse-
+"Darmstadt, dating back to the thirteenth century,
+"it appears that the public executioner's fee for boiling
+"a criminal in oil was twenty-four florins; for decapi-
+"tating with the sword, fifteen florins and-a-half; for
+"quartering, the same; for breaking on the wheel,
+"five florins, thirty kreuzers; for tearing a man to
+"pieces, eighteen florins. Ten florins per head was
+"his charge for hanging, and he burned delinquents
+"alive at the rate of fourteen florins apiece. For ap-
+"plying the 'Spanish boot' his fee was only two
+"florins. Five florins were paid to him every time he
+"subjected a refractory witness to the torture of the
+"rack. The same amount was his due for 'branding
+"'the sign of the gallows with a red-hot iron upon
+"'the back, forehead, or cheek of a thief,' as well as
+"for 'cutting off the nose and ears of a slanderer or
+
+191
+
+"'blasphemer.' Flogging with rods was a cheap
+"punishment, its remuneration being fixed at three
+"florins, thirty kreuzers."
+
+The Bible has made men cruel. It is a cruel book.
+And yet, amidst its thorns, amidst its thistles, amidst
+its nettles and its swords and pikes, there are some
+flowers, and these I wish, in common with all good
+men, to save.
+
+I do not believe that men have ever been made
+merciful in war by reading the Old Testament. I do
+not believe that men have ever been prompted to
+break the chain of a slave by reading the Pentateuch.
+The question is not whether Florence Nightingale and
+Miss Dix were cruel. I have said nothing about
+John Howard, nothing about Abbott Lawrence.
+I say nothing about people in this connection. The
+question is: Is the Bible a cruel book? not: Was
+Miss Nightingale a cruel woman? There have been
+thousands and thousands of loving, tender and char-
+itable Mohammedans. Mohammedan mothers love
+their children as well as Christian mothers can.
+Mohammedans have died in defence of the Koran--
+died for the honor of an impostor. There were
+millions of charitable people in India--millions in
+Egypt--and I am not sure that the world has ever
+
+192
+
+produced people who loved one another better than
+the Egyptians.
+
+I think there are many things in the Old Testament
+calculated to make man cruel. Mr. Talmage asks:
+"What has been the effect upon your children? As
+"they have become more and more fond of the
+"Scriptures have they become more and more fond
+"of tearing off the wings of flies and pinning grass-
+"hoppers and robbing birds' nests?"
+
+I do not believe that reading the bible would make
+them tender toward flies or grasshoppers. According
+to that book, God used to punish animals for the
+crimes of their owners. He drowned the animals in
+a flood. He visited cattle with disease. He bruised
+them to death with hailstones--killed them by the
+thousand. Will the reading of these things make
+children kind to animals? So, the whole system of
+sacrifices in the Old Testament is calculated to harden
+the heart. The butchery of oxen and lambs, the killing
+of doves, the perpetual destruction of life, the con-
+tinual shedding of blood--these things, if they have
+any tendency, tend only to harden the heart of child-
+hood.
+
+The Bible does not stop simply with the killing of
+animals. The Jews were commanded to kill their
+
+193
+
+neighbors--not only the men, but the women; not
+only the women, but the babes. In accordance with
+the command of God, the Jews killed not only their
+neighbors, but their own brothers; and according to
+this book, which is the foundation, as Mr. Talmage
+believes, of all mercy, men were commanded to kill
+their wives because they differed with them on the
+subject of religion.
+
+Nowhere in the world can be found laws more un-
+just and cruel than in the Old Testament.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage wants you to tell where
+the cruelty of the Bible crops out in the lives of Chris-
+tians?
+
+_Answer_. In the first place, millions of Christians
+have been persecutors. Did they get the idea of
+persecution from the Bible? Will not every honest
+man admit that the early Christians, by reading the
+Old Testament, became convinced that it was not
+only their privilege, but their duty, to destroy heathen
+nations? Did they not, by reading the same book,
+come to the conclusion that it was their solemn duty
+to extirpate heresy and heretics? According to the
+New Testament, nobody could be saved unless he
+believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. The early Chris-
+
+194
+
+tians believed this dogma. They also believed that
+they had a right to defend themselves and their
+children from "heretics."
+
+We all admit that a man has a right to defend his
+children against the assaults of a would-be murderer,
+and he has the right to carry this defence to the
+extent of killing the assailant. If we have the right
+to kill people who are simply trying to kill the bodies
+of our children, of course we have the right to kill
+them when they are endeavoring to assassinate, not
+simply their bodies, but their souls. It was in this
+way Christians reasoned. If the Testament is right,
+their reasoning was correct. Whoever believes the
+New Testament literally--whoever is satisfied that it
+is absolutely the word of God, will become a perse-
+cutor. All religious persecution has been, and is, in
+exact harmony with the teachings of the Old and
+New Testaments. Of course I mean with some of
+the teachings. I admit that there are passages in
+both the Old and New Testaments against persecu-
+tion. These are passages quoted only in time of
+peace. Others are repeated to feed the flames of
+war.
+
+I find, too, that reading the Bible and believing the
+Bible do not prevent even ministers from telling false-
+
+195
+
+hoods about their opponents. I find that the Rev.
+Mr. Talmage is willing even to slander the dead,--
+that he is willing to stain the memory of a Christian,
+and that he does not hesitate to give circulation
+to what he knows to be untrue. Mr. Talmage
+has himself, I believe, been the subject of a church
+trial. How many of the Christian witnesses against
+him, in his judgment, told the truth? Yet they were
+all Bible readers and Bible believers. What effect, in
+his judgment, did the reading of the Bible have upon
+his enemies? Is he willing to admit that the testi-
+mony of a Bible, reader and believer is true? Is he
+willing to accept the testimony even of ministers?
+--of his brother ministers? Did reading the Bible
+make them bad people? Was it a belief in the Bible
+that colored their testimony? Or, was it a belief in
+the Bible that made Mr. Talmage deny the truth of
+their statements?
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage charges you with having
+said that the Scriptures are a collection of polluted
+writings?
+
+_Answer_. I have never said such a thing. I have
+said, and I still say, that there are passages in the
+Bible unfit to be read--passages that never should
+
+196
+
+have been written--passages, whether inspired or
+uninspired, that can by no possibility do any human
+being any good. I have always admitted that there
+are good passages in the Bible--many good, wise
+and just laws--many things calculated to make men
+better--many things calculated to make men worse.
+I admit that the Bible is a mixture of good and bad,
+of truth and falsehood, of history and fiction, of sense
+and nonsense, of virtue and vice, of aspiration and
+revenge, of liberty and tyranny.
+
+I have never said anything against Solomon's
+Song. I like it better than I do any book that pre-
+cedes it, because it touches upon the human. In the
+desert of murder, wars of extermination, polygamy,
+concubinage and slavery, it is an oasis where the
+trees grow, where the birds sing, and where human
+love blossoms and fills the air with perfume. I do
+not regard that book as obscene. There are many
+things in it that are beautiful and tender, and it is
+calculated to do good rather than harm.
+
+Neither have I any objection to the book of Eccle-
+siastes--except a few interpolations in it. That book
+was written by a Freethinker, by a philosopher.
+There is not the slightest mention of God in it, nor
+of another state of existence. All portions in which
+
+197
+
+God is mentioned are interpolations. With some of
+this book I agree heartily. I believe in the doctrine
+of enjoying yourself, if you can, to-day. I think it
+foolish to spend all your years in heaping up treas-
+ures, not knowing but he who will spend them is to
+be an idiot. I believe it is far better to be happy with
+your wife and child now, than to be miserable here,
+with angelic expectations in some other world.
+
+Mr. Talmage is mistaken when he supposes that all
+Bible believers have good homes, that all Bible readers
+are kind in their families. As a matter of fact, nearly all
+the wife-whippers of the United States are orthodox.
+Nine-tenths of the people in the penitentiaries are
+believers. Scotland is one of the most orthodox
+countries in the world, and one of the most intem-
+perate. Hundreds and hundreds of women are
+arrested every year in Glasgow for drunkenness.
+Visit the Christian homes in the manufacturing dis-
+tricts of England. Talk with the beaters of children
+and whippers of wives, and you will find them be-
+lievers. Go into what is known as the "Black
+"Country," and you will have an idea of the Chris-
+tian civilization of England.
+
+Let me tell you something about the "Black
+"Country." There women work in iron; there women
+
+198
+
+do the work of men. Let me give you an instance:
+A commission was appointed by Parliament to ex-
+amine into the condition of the women in the "Black
+"Country," and a report was made. In that report
+I read the following:
+
+"A superintendent of a brickyard where women
+"were engaged in carrying bricks from the yard to
+"the kiln, said to one of the women:
+
+"'Eliza, you don't appear to be very uppish this
+"morning.'"
+
+"'Neither would you be very uppish, sir,' she re-
+"plied, 'if you had had a child last night.'"
+
+This gives you an idea of the Christian civilization
+of England.
+
+England and Ireland produce most of the prize-
+fighters. The scientific burglar is a product of Great
+Britain. There is not the great difference that Mr.
+Talmage supposes, between the morality of Pekin
+and of New York. I doubt if there is a city in
+the world with more crime according to the population
+than New York, unless it be London, or it may be
+Dublin, or Brooklyn, or possibly Glasgow, where
+a man too pious to read a newspaper published on
+Sunday, stole millions from the poor.
+
+I do not believe there is a country in the world
+
+199
+
+where there is more robbery than in Christian lands--
+no country where more cashiers are defaulters, where
+more presidents of banks take the money of depositors,
+where there is more adulteration of food, where
+fewer ounces make a pound, where fewer inches make
+a yard, where there is more breach of trust, more
+respectable larceny under the name of embezzlement,
+or more slander circulated as gospel.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage insists that there are no
+contradictions in the Bible--that it is a perfect har-
+mony from Genesis to Revelation--a harmony as
+perfect as any piece of music ever written by
+Beethoven or Handel?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, if God wrote it, the Bible
+ought to be perfect. I do not see why a minister
+should be so perfectly astonished to find that an
+inspired book is consistent with itself throughout.
+Yet the truth is, the Bible is infinitely inconsistent.
+
+Compare the two systems--the system of Jehovah
+and that of Jesus. In the Old Testament the doctrine
+of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" was
+taught. In the New Testament, "forgive your
+"enemies," and "pray for those who despitefully
+"use you and persecute you." In the Old Testament
+
+200
+
+it is kill, burn, massacre, destroy; in the New forgive.
+The two systems are inconsistent, and one is just
+about as far wrong as the other. To live for and
+thirst for revenge, to gloat over the agony of an
+enemy, is one extreme; to "resist not evil" is the
+other extreme; and both these extremes are equally
+distant from the golden mean of justice.
+
+The four gospels do not even agree as to the terms
+of salvation. And yet, Mr. Talmage tells us that
+there are four cardinal doctrines taught in the Bible--
+the goodness of God, the fall of man, the sympathetic
+and forgiving nature of the Savior, and two desti-
+nies--one for believers and the other for unbelievers.
+That is to say:
+
+1. That God is good, holy and forgiving.
+
+2. That man is a lost sinner.
+
+3. That Christ is "all sympathetic," and ready to
+take the whole world to his heart.
+
+4. Heaven for believers and hell for unbelievers.
+
+_First_. I admit that the Bible says that God is
+
+good and holy. But this Bible also tells what God
+did, and if God did what the Bible says he did, then I
+insist that God is not good, and that he is not holy,
+or forgiving. According to the Bible, this good
+God believed in religious persecution; this good
+
+201
+
+God believed in extermination, in polygamy, in con-
+cubinage, in human slavery; this good God com-
+manded murder and massacre, and this good God
+could only be mollified by the shedding of blood.
+This good God wanted a butcher for a priest. This
+good God wanted husbands to kill their wives--
+wanted fathers and mothers to kill their children.
+This good God persecuted animals on account of the
+crimes of their owners. This good God killed the
+common people because the king had displeased him.
+This good God killed the babe even of the maid
+behind the mill, in order that he might get even with
+a king. This good God committed every possible
+crime.
+
+_Second_. The statement that man is a lost sinner
+is not true. There are thousands and thousands of
+magnificent Pagans--men ready to die for wife, or
+child, or even for friend, and the history of Pagan
+countries is filled with self-denying and heroic acts.
+If man is a failure, the infinite God, if there be one,
+is to blame. Is it possible that the God of Mr. Tal-
+mage could not have made man a success? Accord-
+ing to the Bible, his God made man knowing that in
+about fifteen hundred years he would have to drown
+all his descendants.
+
+202
+
+Why would a good God create a man that he
+knew would be a sinner all his life, make hundreds
+of thousands of his fellow-men unhappy, and who at
+last would be doomed to an eternity of suffering?
+Can such a God be good? How could a devil have
+done worse?
+
+_Third._ If God is infinitely good, is he not fully as
+sympathetic as Christ? Do you have to employ
+Christ to mollify a being of infinite mercy? Is Christ
+any more willing to take to his heart the whole world
+than his Father is? Personally, I have not the
+slightest objection in the world to anybody believing
+in an infinitely good and kind God--not the slightest
+objection to any human being worshiping an infi-
+nitely tender and merciful Christ--not the slightest
+objection to people preaching about heaven, or about
+the glories of the future state--not the slightest.
+
+_Fourth_. I object to the doctrine of two destinies
+for the human race. I object to the infamous false-
+hood of eternal fire. And yet, Mr. Talmage is en-
+deavoring to poison the imagination of men, women
+and children with the doctrine of an eternal hell.
+Here is what he preaches, taken from the "Constitu-
+"tion of the Presbyterian Church of the United
+"States:"
+
+203
+
+"By the decrees of God, for the manifestation of
+"his glory, some men and angels are predestinated
+"to everlasting life, and others foreordained to ever-
+"lasting death."
+
+That is the doctrine of Mr. Talmage. He wor-
+ships a God who damns people "for the manifesta-
+"tion of his glory,"--a God who made men, knowing
+that they would be damned--a God who damns
+babes simply to increase his reputation with the
+angels. This is the God of Mr. Talmage. Such a
+God I abhor, despise and execrate.
+
+_Question_. What does Mr. Talmage think of man-
+kind? What is his opinion of the "unconverted"?
+How does he regard the great and glorious of the
+earth, who have not been the victims of his particular
+superstition? What does he think of some of the
+best the earth has produced?
+
+_Answer_. I will tell you how he looks upon all
+such. Read this from his "Confession of Faith:"
+
+"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety
+"of the tempter, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit.
+"By this sin, they fell from their original righteous-
+"ness and communion with God, and so became
+"dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties
+
+204
+
+"and parts of soul and body; and they being the
+"root of all mankind, the guilt of this sin was
+"imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted
+"nature conveyed to all their posterity. From this
+"original corruption--whereby we are utterly indis-
+"posed, disabled, and made opposite to all good,
+"and wholly inclined to all evil, do proceed all actual
+"transgressions."
+
+This is Mr. Talmage's view of humanity.
+
+Why did his God make a devil? Why did he
+allow the devil to tempt Adam and Eve? Why did
+he leave innocence and ignorance at the mercy of
+subtlety and wickedness? Why did he put "the
+"tree of the knowledge of good and evil" in the
+garden? For what reason did he place temptation
+in the way of his children? Was it kind, was it just,
+was it noble, was it worthy of a good God? No
+wonder Christ put into his prayer: "Lead us not
+"into temptation."
+
+At the time God told Adam and Eve not to eat,
+why did he not tell them of the existence of Satan?
+Why were they not put upon their guard against the
+serpent? Why did not God make his appearance
+just before the sin, instead of just after. Why did
+he not play the role of a Savior instead of that of a
+
+205
+
+detective? After he found that Adam and Eve had
+sinned--knowing as he did that they were then
+totally corrupt--knowing that all their children
+would be corrupt, knowing that in fifteen hundred
+years he would have to drown millions of them, why
+did he not allow Adam and Eve to perish in accord-
+ance with natural law, then kill the devil, and make a
+new pair?
+
+When the flood came, why did he not drown all?
+Why did he save for seed that which was "perfectly
+"and thoroughly corrupt in all its parts and facul-
+"ties"? If God had drowned Noah and his sons
+and their families, he could have then made a new
+pair, and peopled the world with men not "wholly
+"defiled in all their faculties and parts of soul and
+"body."
+
+Jehovah learned nothing by experience. He per-
+sisted in his original mistake. What would we think
+of a man who finding that a field of wheat was
+worthless, and that such wheat never could be
+raised with profit, should burn all of the field with the
+exception of a few sheaves, which he saved for seed?
+Why save such seed? Why should God have pre-
+served Noah, knowing that he was totally corrupt,
+and that he would again fill the world with infamous
+
+206
+
+people--people incapable of a good action? He
+must have known at that time, that by preserving
+Noah, the Canaanites would be produced, that these
+same Canaanites would have to be murdered, that
+the babes in the cradles would have to be strangled.
+Why did he produce them? He knew at that time,
+that Egypt would result from the salvation of Noah,
+that the Egyptians would have to be nearly de-
+stroyed, that he would have to kill their first-born,
+that he would have to visit even their cattle with
+disease and hailstones. He knew also that the
+Egyptians would oppress his chosen people for two
+hundred and fifteen years, that they would upon the
+back of toil inflict the lash. Why did he preserve
+Noah? He should have drowned all, and started
+with a new pair. He should have warned them
+against the devil, and he might have succeeded, in
+that way, in covering the world with gentlemen and
+ladies, with real men and real women.
+
+We know that most of the people now in the
+world are not Christians. Most who have heard the
+gospel of Christ have rejected it, and the Presby-
+terian Church tells us what is to become of all these
+people. This is the "glad tidings of great joy."
+Let us see:
+
+207
+
+"All mankind, by their fall, lost communion with
+"God, are under his wrath and curse, and so made
+"liable to all the miseries of this life, to death itself,
+"and to the pains of hell forever."
+
+According to this good Presbyterian doctrine, all
+that we suffer in this world, is the result of Adam's
+fall. The babes of to-day suffer for the crime of the
+first parents. Not only so; but God is angry at us
+for what Adam did. We are under the wrath of an
+infinite God, whose brows are corrugated with eternal
+hatred.
+
+Why should God hate us for being what we are
+and necessarily must have been? A being that God
+made--the devil--for whose work God is responsible,
+according to the Bible wrought this woe. God of his
+own free will must have made the devil. What did
+he make him for? Was it necessary to have a devil
+in heaven? God, having infinite power, can of
+course destroy this devil to-day. Why does he per-
+mit him to live? Why did he allow him to thwart his
+plans? Why did he permit him to pollute the inno-
+cence of Eden? Why does he allow him now to
+wrest souls by the million from the redeeming hand
+of Christ?
+
+According to the Scriptures, the devil has always
+
+208
+
+been successful. He enjoys himself. He is called
+"the prince of the power of the air." He has no
+conscientious scruples. He has miraculous power.
+All miraculous power must come of God, otherwise
+it is simply in accordance with nature. If the devil
+can work a miracle, it is only with the consent and
+by the assistance of the Almighty. Is the God of
+Mr. Talmage in partnership with the devil? Do
+they divide profits?
+
+We are also told by the Presbyterian Church--
+I quote from their Confession of Faith--that "there
+"is no sin so small but it deserves damnation.'' Yet
+Mr. Talmage tells us that God is good, that he is filled
+with mercy and loving-kindness. A child nine or ten
+years of age commits a sin, and thereupon it deserves
+eternal damnation. That is what Mr. Talmage calls,
+not simply justice, but mercy; and the sympathetic
+heart of Christ is not touched. The same being who
+said: "Suffer little children to come unto me," tells
+us that a child, for the smallest sin, deserves to be
+eternally damned. The Presbyterian Church tells us
+that infants, as well as adults, in order to be saved,
+need redemption by the blood of Christ, and regen-
+eration by the Holy Ghost.
+
+I am charged with trying to take the consolation
+
+209
+
+of this doctrine from the world. I am a criminal
+because I am endeavoring to convince the mother
+that her child does not deserve eternal punishment.
+I stand by the graves of those who "died in their
+"sins," by the tombs of the "unregenerate," over the
+ashes of men who have spent their lives working for
+their wives and children, and over the sacred dust of
+soldiers who died in defence of flag and country,
+and I say to their friends--I say to the living who
+loved them, I say to the men and women for whom
+they worked, I say to the children whom they edu-
+cated, I say to the country for which they died:
+These fathers, these mothers, these wives, these
+husbands, these soldiers are not in hell.
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage insists that the Bible is
+scientific, and that the real scientific man sees no
+contradiction between revelation and science; that,
+on the contrary, they are in harmony. What is your
+understanding of this matter?
+
+_Answer_. I do not believe the Bible to be a sci-
+entific book. In fact, most of the ministers now admit
+that it was not written to teach any science. They
+admit that the first chapter of Genesis is not geo-
+logically true. They admit that Joshua knew nothing
+
+210
+
+of science. They admit that four-footed birds did
+not exist in the days of Moses. In fact, the only
+way they can avoid the unscientific statements of the
+Bible, is to assert that the writers simply used the
+common language of their day, and used it, not with
+the intention of teaching any scientific truth, but for
+the purpose of teaching some moral truth. As a
+matter of fact, we find that moral truths have been
+taught in all parts of this world. They were taught
+in India long before Moses lived; in Egypt long be-
+fore Abraham was born; in China thousands of
+years before the flood. They were taught by hundreds
+and thousands and millions before the Garden of
+Eden was planted.
+
+It would be impossible to prove the truth of a
+revelation simply because it contained moral truths.
+If it taught immorality, it would be absolutely certain
+that it was not a revelation from an infinitely good
+being. If it taught morality, it would be no reason
+for even suspecting that it had a divine origin. But
+if the Bible had given us scientific truths; if the
+ignorant Jews had given us the true theory of our
+solar system; if from Moses we had learned the
+nature of light and heat; if from Joshua we had
+learned something of electricity; if the minor pro-
+
+211
+
+phets had given us the distances to other planets;
+if the orbits of the stars had been marked by the
+barbarians of that day, we might have admitted that
+they must have been inspired. If they had said any-
+thing in advance of their day; if they had plucked
+from the night of ignorance one star of truth, we
+might have admitted the claim of inspiration; but
+the Scriptures did not rise above their source, did
+not rise above their ignorant authors--above the
+people who believed in wars of extermination, in
+polygamy, in concubinage, in slavery, and who taught
+these things in their "sacred Scriptures."
+
+The greatest men in the scientific world have not
+been, and are not, believers in the inspiration of the
+Scriptures. There has been no greater astronomer
+than Laplace. There is no greater name than
+Humboldt. There is no living scientist who stands
+higher than Charles Darwin. All the professors in
+all the religious colleges in this country rolled into
+one, would not equal Charles Darwin. All the cow-
+ardly apologists for the cosmogony of Moses do not
+amount to as much in the world of thought as Ernst
+Haeckel. There is no orthodox scientist the equal
+of Tyndall or Huxley. There is not one in this
+country the equal of John Fiske. I insist, that the
+
+212
+
+foremost men to-day in the scientific world reject the
+dogma of inspiration. They reject the science of the
+Bible, and hold in utter contempt the astronomy of
+Joshua, and the geology of Moses.
+
+Mr. Talmage tells us "that Science is a boy and
+"Revelation is a man." Of course, like the most he
+says, it is substantially the other way. Revelation,
+so-called, was the boy. Religion was the lullaby of
+the cradle, the ghost-story told by the old woman,
+Superstition. Science is the man. Science asks for
+demonstration. Science impels us to investigation,
+and to verify everything for ourselves. Most pro-
+fessors of American colleges, if they were not afraid
+of losing their places, if they did not know that
+Christians were bad enough now to take the bread
+from their mouths, would tell their students that the
+Bible is not a scientific book.
+
+I admit that I have said:
+
+1. That the Bible is cruel.
+
+2. That in many passages it is impure.
+
+3. That it is contradictory.
+
+4. That it is unscientific.
+
+Let me now prove these propositions one by one.
+
+First. The Bible is cruel.
+
+I have opened it at random, and the very first
+
+213
+
+chapter that has struck my eye is the sixth of First
+Samuel. In the nineteenth verse of that chapter, I
+find the following:
+
+"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because
+"they had looked into the ark of the Lord; even he
+"smote of the people fifty thousand and three-score
+"and ten men."
+
+All this slaughter was because some people had
+looked into a box that was carried upon a cart. Was
+that cruel?
+
+I find, also, in the twenty-fourth chapter of Second
+Samuel, that David was moved by God to number
+Israel and Judah. God put it into his heart to take
+a census of his people, and thereupon David said to
+Joab, the captain of his host:
+
+"Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from
+"Dan even to Beersheba, and number ye the people,
+"that I may know the number of the people."
+
+At the end of nine months and twenty days, Joab
+gave the number of the people to the king, and
+there were at that time, according to that census,
+"eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the
+"sword," in Israel, and in Judah, "five hundred
+"thousand men," making a total of thirteen hundred
+thousand men of war. The moment this census was
+
+214
+
+taken, the wrath of the Lord waxed hot against
+David, and thereupon he sent a seer, by the name of
+Gad, to David, and asked him to choose whether he
+would have seven years of famine, or fly three
+months before his enemies, or have three days of
+pestilence. David concluded that as God was so
+merciful as to give him a choice, he would be more
+merciful than man, and he chose the pestilence.
+
+Now, it must be remembered that the sin of taking
+the census had not been committed by the people,
+but by David himself, inspired by God, yet the
+people were to be punished for David's sin. So,,
+when David chose the pestilence, God immediately
+killed "seventy thousand men, from Dan even to
+"Beersheba."
+
+"And when the angel stretched out his hand upon
+"Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of
+"the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the
+"people, It is enough; stay now thine hand."
+
+Was this cruel?
+
+Why did a God of infinite mercy destroy seventy
+thousand men? Why did he fill his land with widows
+and orphans, because King David had taken the cen-
+sus? If he wanted to kill anybody, why did he not
+kill David? I will tell you why. Because at that
+
+215
+
+time, the people were considered as the property of
+the king. He killed the people precisely as he killed
+the cattle. And yet, I am told that the Bible is not a
+cruel book.
+
+In the twenty-first chapter of Second Samuel, I
+find that there were three years of famine in the days
+of David, and that David inquired of the Lord the
+reason of the famine; and the Lord told him that it
+was because Saul had slain the Gibeonites. Why did
+not God punish Saul instead of the people? And
+David asked the Gibeonites how he should make
+atonement, and the Gibeonites replied that they
+wanted no silver nor gold, but they asked that seven
+of the sons of Saul might be delivered unto them, so
+that they could hang them before the Lord, in Gibeah.
+And David agreed to the proposition, and thereupon
+he delivered to the Gibeonites the two sons of Rizpah,
+Saul's concubine, and the five sons of Michal, the
+daughter of Saul, and the Gibeonites hanged all
+seven of them together. And Rizpah, more tender
+than them all, with a woman's heart of love kept
+lonely vigil by the dead, "from the beginning of har-
+"vest until water dropped upon them out of heaven,
+"and suffered neither the birds of the air to rest upon
+"them by day, nor the beast of the field by night."
+
+216
+
+I want to know if the following, from the fifteenth
+chapter of First Samuel, is inspired:
+
+"Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I remember that
+"which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for
+"him in the way when he came up from Egypt. Now
+"go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that
+"they have, and spare them not, but slay both man
+"and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep,
+"camel and ass."
+
+We must remember that those he was commanded
+to slay had done nothing to Israel. It was something
+done by their forefathers, hundreds of years before;
+and yet they are commanded to slay the women and
+children and even the animals, and to spare none.
+
+It seems that Saul only partially carried into exe-
+cution this merciful command of Jehovah. He spared
+the life of the king. He "utterly destroyed all the
+"people with the edge of the sword," but he kept
+alive the best of the sheep and oxen and of the fat-
+lings and lambs. Then God spake unto Samuel and
+told him that he was very sorry he had made Saul
+king, because he had not killed all the animals, and
+because he had spared Agag; and Samuel asked
+Saul: "What meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine
+"ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?"
+
+217
+
+Are stories like this calculated to make soldiers
+merciful?
+
+So I read in the sixth chapter of Joshua, the fate
+of the city of Jericho: "And they utterly destroyed
+"all that was in the city, both man and woman,
+"young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the
+"edge of the sword. And they burnt the city with
+"fire, and all that was therein." But we are told that
+one family was saved by Joshua, out of the general
+destruction: "And Joshua saved Rahab, the harlot,
+"alive, and her father's household, and all that she
+"had." Was this fearful destruction an act of
+mercy?
+
+It seems that they saved the money of their
+victims: "the silver and gold and the vessels of brass
+"and of iron they put into the treasury of the house
+"of the Lord."
+
+After all this pillage and carnage, it appears
+that there was a suspicion in Joshua's mind that
+somebody was keeping back a part of the treasure.
+Search was made, and a man by the name of Achan
+admitted that he had sinned against the Lord, that he
+had seen a Babylonish garment among the spoils, and
+two hundred shekels of silver and a wedge of gold of
+fifty shekels' weight, and that he took them and hid
+
+2l8
+
+them in his tent. For this atrocious crime it seems
+that the Lord denied any victories to the Jews until
+they found out the wicked criminal. When they dis-
+covered poor Achan, "they took him and his sons
+"and his daughters, and his oxen and his asses and
+"his sheep, and all that he had, and brought them unto
+"the valley of Achor; and all Israel stoned him with
+"stones and burned them with fire after they had
+"stoned them with stones."
+
+After Achan and his sons and his daughters and
+his herds had been stoned and burned to death, we
+are told that "the Lord turned from the fierceness of
+"his anger."
+
+And yet it is insisted that this God "is merciful,
+"and that his loving-kindness is over all his works."
+In the eighth chapter of this same book, the infi-
+nite God, "creator of heaven and earth and all that is
+"therein," told his general, Joshua, to lay an ambush
+for a city--to "lie in wait against the city, even be-
+"hind the city; go not very far from the city, but be
+"ye all ready." He told him to make an attack and
+then to run, as though he had been beaten, in order
+that the inhabitants of the city might follow, and
+thereupon his reserves that he had ambushed might
+rush into the city and set it on fire. God Almighty
+
+219
+
+planned the battle. God himself laid the snare. The
+whole programme was carried out. Joshua made
+believe that he was beaten, and fled, and then the
+soldiers in ambush rose out of their places, enter-
+ed the city, and set it on fire. Then came the
+slaughter. They "utterly destroyed all the inhabit-
+"ants of Ai," men and maidens, women and babes,
+sparing only their king till evening, when they
+hanged him on a tree, then "took his carcase down
+"from the tree and cast it at the entering of the
+"gate, and raised thereon a great heap of stones
+"which remaineth unto this day." After having
+done all this, "Joshua built an altar unto the Lord
+"God of Israel, and offered burnt offerings unto the
+"Lord." I ask again, was this cruel?
+
+Again I ask, was the treatment of the Gibeonites
+cruel when they sought to make peace but were
+denied, and cursed instead; and although permitted
+to live, were yet made slaves? Read the mandate
+consigning them to bondage: "Now therefore ye
+"are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed
+"from being bondmen and hewers of wood and
+"drawers of water for the house of my God."
+
+Is it possible, as recorded in the tenth chapter of
+Joshua, that the Lord took part in these battles, and
+
+220
+
+cast down great hail-stones from the battlements of
+heaven upon the enemies of the Israelites, so that
+"they were more who died with hail-stones, than
+"they whom the children of Israel slew with the
+"sword"?
+
+Is it possible that a being of infinite power would
+exercise it in that way instead of in the interest of
+kindness and peace?
+
+I find, also, in this same chapter, that Joshua took
+Makkedah and smote it with the edge of the sword,
+that he utterly destroyed all the souls that were
+therein, that he allowed none to remain.
+
+I find that he fought against Libnah, and smote
+it with the edge of the sword, and utterly destroyed
+all the souls that were therein, and allowed none to
+remain, and did unto the king as he did unto the king
+of Jericho.
+
+I find that he also encamped against Lachish, and
+that God gave him that city, and that he "smote it
+"with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that
+"were therein," sparing neither old nor young, help-
+less women nor prattling babes.
+
+He also vanquished Horam, King of Gezer, "and
+"smote him and his people until he left him none
+"remaining."
+
+221
+
+He encamped against the city of Eglon, and killed
+every soul that was in it, at the edge of the sword,
+just as he had done to Lachish and all the others.
+
+He fought against Hebron, "and took it and
+"smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king
+"thereof,"--and it appears that several cities, their
+number not named, were included in this slaughter,
+for Hebron "and all the cities thereof and all the
+"souls that were therein," were utterly destroyed.
+
+He then waged war against Debir and took it, and
+more unnumbered cities with it, and all the souls that
+were therein shared the same horrible fate--he did
+not leave a soul alive.
+
+And this chapter of horrors concludes with this
+song of victory:
+
+"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and
+"of the south, and of the vale, and of the springs,
+"and all their kings: he left none remaining, but
+"utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord
+"God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote
+"them from Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the
+"country of Goshen, even unto Gibeon. And all these
+"kings and their land did Joshua take at one time,
+"because the Lord God of Israel fought for Israel."
+Was God, at that time, merciful?
+
+222
+
+I find, also, in the twenty-first chapter that many
+Icings met, with their armies, for the purpose of
+overwhelming Israel, and the Lord said unto Joshua:
+"Be not afraid because of them, for to-morrow about
+"this time I will deliver them all slain before Israel.
+"I will hough their horses and burn their chariots
+"with fire." Were animals so treated by the com-
+mand of a merciful God?
+
+Joshua captured Razor, and smote all the souls
+that were therein with the edge of the sword, there
+was not one left to breathe; and he took all the
+cities of all the kings that took up arms against him,
+and utterly destroyed all the inhabitants thereof.
+He took the cattle and spoils as prey unto himself,
+and smote every man with the edge of the sword;
+and not only so, but left not a human being to
+breathe.
+
+I find the following directions given to the Israel-
+ites who were waging a war of conquest. They are
+in the twentieth chapter of Deuteronomy, from the
+tenth to the eighteenth verses:
+
+"When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight
+"against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it
+"shall be, if it make thee an answer of peace, and
+"open unto thee, then it shall be that all the people
+
+223
+
+"that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee,
+"and they shall serve thee. And if it will make no
+"peace with thee, but will war against thee, then
+"thou shalt besiege it. And when the Lord thy
+"God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt
+"smite every male thereof with the edge of the
+"sword; but the women, and the little ones, and
+"the cattle, and all that is in the city, even the spoil
+"thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou
+"shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the
+"Lord thy God hath given thee. Thus shalt thou
+"do unto all the cities which are very far off from
+"thee, which are not of the cities of these nations."
+It will be seen from this that people could take
+their choice between death and slavery, provided
+these people lived a good ways from the Israelites.
+Now, let us see how they were to treat the inhabit-
+ants of the cities near to them:
+
+"But of the cities of these people which the Lord
+"thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou
+"shalt save alive nothing that breatheth. But thou
+"shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites,
+"and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites,
+"the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord thy God
+"hath commanded thee."
+
+224
+
+It never occurred to this merciful God to send
+missionaries to these people. He built them no
+schoolhouses, taught them no alphabet, gave them
+no book; they were not supplied even with a copy of
+the Ten Commandments. He did not say "Reform,"
+but "Kill;" not "Educate," but "Destroy." He gave
+them no Bible, built them no church, sent them no
+preachers. He knew when he made them that he
+would have to have them murdered. When he
+created them he knew that they were not fit to live;
+and yet, this is the infinite God who is infinitely
+merciful and loves his children better than an earthly
+mother loves her babe.
+
+In order to find just how merciful God is, read the
+twenty-eighth chapter of Deuteronomy, and see what
+he promises to do with people who do not keep all of
+his commandments and all of his statutes. He curses
+them in their basket and store, in the fruit of their
+body, in the fruit of their land, in the increase of their
+cattle and sheep. He curses them in the city and in
+the field, in their coming in and their going out. He
+curses them with pestilence, with consumption, with
+fever, with inflammation, with extreme burning, with
+sword, with blasting, with mildew. He tells them
+that the heavens shall be as brass over their heads
+
+225
+
+and the earth as iron under their feet; that the rain
+shall be powder and dust and shall come down on
+them and destroy them; that they shall flee seven
+ways before their enemies; that their carcasses shall
+be meat for the fowls of the air, and the beasts of the
+earth; that he will smite them with the botch of
+Egypt, and with the scab, and with the itch, and with
+madness and blindness and astonishment; that he
+will make them grope at noonday; that they shall be
+oppressed and spoiled evermore; that one shall be-
+troth a wife and another shall have her; that they
+shall build a house and not dwell in it; plant a vine-
+yard and others shall eat the grapes; that their
+sons and daughters shall be given to their enemies;
+that he will make them mad for the sight of their
+eyes; that he will smite them in the knees and in the
+legs with a sore botch that cannot be healed, and
+from the sole of the foot to the top of the head;
+that they shall be a by-word among all nations; that
+they shall sow much seed and gather but little; that
+the locusts shall consume their crops; that they shall
+plant vineyards and drink no wine,--that they shall
+gather grapes, but worms shall eat them; that they
+shall raise olives but have no oil; beget sons and
+daughters, but they shall go into captivity; that all
+
+226
+
+the trees and fruit of the land shall be devoured by
+locusts, and that all these curses shall pursue them
+and overtake them, until they be destroyed; that they
+shall be slaves to their enemies, and be constantly in
+hunger and thirst and nakedness, and in want of all
+things. And as though this were not enough, the
+Lord tells them that he will bring a nation against
+them swift as eagles, a nation fierce and savage, that
+will show no mercy and no favor to old or young,
+and leave them neither corn, nor wine, nor oil, nor
+flocks, nor herds; and this nation shall besiege them
+in their cities until they are reduced to the necessity
+of eating the flesh of their own sons and daughters;
+so that the men would eat their wives and their
+children, and women eat their husbands and their
+own sons and daughters, and their own babes.
+
+All these curses God pronounced upon them if they
+did not observe to do all the words of the law that
+were written in his book.
+
+This same merciful God threatened that he would
+bring upon them all the diseases of Egypt--every
+sickness and every plague; that he would scatter
+them from one end of the earth to the other; that
+they should find no rest; that their lives should hang
+in perpetual doubt; that in the morning they would
+
+227
+
+say: Would God it were evening! and in the even-
+ing, Would God it were morning! and that he would
+finally take them back to Egypt where they should
+be again sold for bondmen and bondwomen.
+
+This curse, the foundation of the _Anathema
+maranatha_; this curse, used by the pope of Rome to
+prevent the spread of thought; this curse used even
+by the Protestant Church; this curse born of barba-
+rism and of infinite cruelty, is now said to have
+issued from the lips of an infinitely merciful God. One
+would suppose that Jehovah had gone insane; that
+he had divided his kingdom like Lear, and from the
+darkness of insanity had launched his curses upon a
+world.
+
+In order that there may be no doubt as to the
+mercy of Jehovah, read the thirteenth chapter of
+Deuteronomy:
+
+"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy
+"son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or
+"thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee
+"secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods,
+"which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers;
+" * * * thou shalt not consent unto him, nor
+"hearken unto him; neither shall thine eyes pity him,
+"neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal
+
+228
+
+"him; but thou shalt surely kill him: thine hand
+"shall be first upon him to put him to death, and
+"afterwards the hand of all the people; and thou
+"shalt stone him with stones that he die, because he
+"hath sought to entice thee away from the Lord thy
+"God."
+
+This, according to Mr. Talmage, is a commandment
+of the infinite God. According to him, God ordered
+a man to murder his own son, his own wife, his own
+brother, his own daughter, if they dared even to sug-
+gest the worship of some other God than Jehovah.
+For my part, it is impossible not to despise such
+a God--a God not willing that one should worship
+what he must. No one can control his admiration,
+and if a savage at sunrise falls upon his knees and
+offers homage to the great light of the East, he can-
+not help it. If he worships the moon, he cannot help
+it. If he worships fire, it is because he cannot control
+his own spirit. A picture is beautiful to me in spite
+of myself. A statue compels the applause of my
+brain. The worship of the sun was an exceedingly
+natural religion, and why should a man or woman be
+destroyed for kneeling at the fireside of the world?
+
+No wonder that this same God, in the very next
+chapter of Deuteronomy to that quoted, says to his
+
+229
+
+chosen people: "Ye shall not eat of anything that
+"dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger
+"that is within thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou
+"mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art a holy
+"people unto the Lord thy God."
+
+What a mingling of heartlessness and thrift--the
+religion of sword and trade!
+
+In the seventh chapter of Deuteronomy, Jehovah
+gives his own character. He tells the Israelites that
+there are seven nations greater and mightier than
+themselves, but that he will deliver them to his chosen
+people, and that they shall smite them and utterly
+destroy them; and having some fear that a drop of
+pity might remain in the Jewish heart, he says:
+
+"Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor
+"show mercy unto them. * * * Know therefore
+"that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God,
+"which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that
+"love him and keep his commandments to a thousand
+"generations, and repayeth them that hate him to
+"their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to
+"him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face."
+This is the description which the merciful, long-suffer-
+ing Jehovah gives of himself.
+
+So, he promises great prosperity to the Jews if
+
+230
+
+they will only obey his commandments, and says:
+"And the Lord will take away from thee all sickness,
+"and will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt
+"upon thee, but will lay them upon all them that
+"hate thee. And thou shalt consume all the people
+"which the Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine
+"eye shall have no pity upon them."
+
+Under the immediate government of Jehovah,
+mercy was a crime. According to the law of God,
+pity was weakness, tenderness was treason, kindness
+was blasphemy, while hatred and massacre were
+virtues.
+
+In the second chapter of Deuteronomy we find
+another account tending to prove that Jehovah is a
+merciful God. We find that Sihon, king of Heshbon,
+would not let the Hebrews pass by him, and the
+reason given is, that "the Lord God hardened his
+"spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might
+"deliver him into the hand" of the Hebrews. Sihon,
+his heart having been hardened by God, came out
+against the chosen people, and God delivered him to
+them, and "they smote him, and his sons, and all his
+"people, and took all his cities, and utterly destroyed
+"the men and the women, and the little ones of
+"every city: they left none to remain." And in this
+
+231
+
+same chapter this same God promises that the dread
+and fear of his chosen people should be "upon all the
+"nations that are under the whole heaven," and that
+"they should "tremble and be in anguish because of"
+the Hebrews.
+
+Read the thirty-first chapter of Numbers, and see
+how the Midianites were slain. You will find that
+"the children of Israel took all the women of Midian
+"captives, and their little ones," that they took "all
+"their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods,"
+that they slew all the males, and burnt all their cities
+and castles with fire, that they brought the captives
+and the prey and the spoil unto Moses and Eleazar
+the priest; that Moses was wroth with the officers
+of his host because they had saved all the women
+alive, and thereupon this order was given: "Kill
+"every male among the little ones, and kill every
+"woman, * * * but all the women children
+"keep alive for yourselves."
+
+After this, God himself spake unto Moses, and
+said: "Take the sum of the prey that was taken,
+"both of man and of beast, thou and Eleazar the
+"priest * * * and divide the prey into two
+"parts, between those who went to war, and between
+"all the congregation, and levy a tribute unto the
+
+232
+
+"Lord, one soul of five hundred of the persons,
+"and the cattle; take it of their half and give it to
+"the priest for an offering * * * and of the
+"children of Israel's half, take one portion of fifty of
+"the persons and the animals and give them unto
+"the Levites. * * * And Moses and the priest
+"did as the Lord had commanded." It seems that
+they had taken six hundred and seventy-five thou-
+sand sheep, seventy-two thousand beeves, sixty-one
+thousand asses, and thirty-two thousand women
+children and maidens. And it seems, by the fortieth
+verse, _that the Lord's tribute of the maidens was thirty-
+two_,--the rest were given to the soldiers and to the
+congregation of the Lord.
+
+Was anything more infamous ever recorded in the
+annals of barbarism? And yet we are told that the
+Bible is an inspired book, that it is not a cruel book,
+and that Jehovah is a being of infinite mercy.
+
+In the twenty-fifth chapter of Numbers we find
+that the Israelites had joined themselves unto Baal-
+Peor, and thereupon the anger of the Lord was
+kindled against them, as usual. No being ever lost
+his temper more frequently than this Jehovah. Upon
+this particular occasion, "the Lord said unto Moses,
+"Take all the heads of the people, and hang them
+
+233
+
+"up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce
+"anger of the Lord may be turned away from Israel."
+And thereupon "Moses said unto the judges of Israel,
+"Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto
+"Baal-peor."
+
+Just as soon as these people were killed, and their
+heads hung up before the Lord against the sun, and
+a horrible double murder of a too merciful Israelite
+and a Midianitish woman, had been committed by
+Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, "the plague was stayed
+"from the children of Israel." Twenty-four thousand
+had died. Thereupon, "the Lord spake unto Moses
+"and said"--and it is a very merciful commandment
+--"Vex the Midianites and smite them."
+
+In the twenty-first chapter of Numbers is more evi-
+dence that God is merciful and compassionate.
+
+The children of Israel had become discouraged.
+They had wandered so long in the desert that they
+finally cried out: "Wherefore have ye brought us
+"up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There
+"is no bread, there is no water, and our soul loatheth
+"this light bread." Of course they were hungry and
+thirsty. Who would not complain under similar cir-
+cumstances? And yet, on account of this complaint,
+the God of infinite tenderness and compassion sent
+
+234
+
+serpents among them, and these serpents bit them--
+bit the cheeks of children, the breasts of maidens,
+and the withered faces of age. Why would a God
+do such an infamous thing? Why did he not, as the
+leader of this people, his chosen children, feed them
+better? Certainly an infinite God had the power
+to satisfy their hunger and to quench their thirst.
+He who overwhelmed a world with water, certainly
+could have made a few brooks, cool and babbling,
+to follow his chosen people through all their jour-
+neying. He could have supplied them with miracu-
+lous food.
+
+How fortunate for the Jews that Jehovah was not
+revengeful, that he was so slow to anger, so patient,
+so easily pleased. What would they have done had
+he been exacting, easily incensed, revengeful, cruel,
+or blood-thirsty?
+
+In the sixteenth chapter of Numbers, an account is
+given of a rebellion. It seems that Korah, Dathan
+and Abiram got tired of Moses and Aaron. They
+thought the priests were taking a little too much
+upon themselves. So Moses told them to have two
+hundred and fifty of their men bring their censers
+and put incense in them before the Lord, and stand
+in the door of the tabernacle of the congregation
+
+235
+
+with Moses and Aaron. That being done, the Lord
+appeared, and told Moses and Aaron to separate
+themselves from the people, that he might consume
+them all in a moment. Moses and Aaron, having a
+little compassion, begged God not to kill everybody.
+The people were then divided, and Dathan and
+Abiram came out and stood in the door of their
+tents with their wives and their sons and their little
+children. And Moses said:
+
+"Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent
+"me to do all these works; for I have not done them
+"of my mine own mind. If these men die the
+"common death of all men, or if they be visited
+"after the common visitation of all men, then the
+"Lord hath not sent me. But if the Lord make a
+"new thing, and the earth open her mouth and
+"swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them,
+"and they go down quick into the pit, then ye shall
+"understand that these men have provoked the
+"Lord." The moment he ceased speaking, "the
+"ground clave asunder that was under them; and
+"the earth opened her mouth and swallowed them up,
+"and their houses, and all the men that appertained
+"unto Korah, and all their goods. They, and all that
+"appertained to them went down alive into the pit,
+
+236
+
+"and the earth closed upon them, and they perished
+"from among the congregation."
+
+This, according to Mr. Talmage, was the act of an
+exceedingly merciful God, prompted by infinite kind-
+ness, and moved by eternal pity. What would he
+have done had he acted from motives of revenge?
+What would he Jiave done had he been remorse-
+lessly cruel and wicked?
+
+In addition to those swallowed by the earth, the
+two hundred and fifty men that offered the incense
+were consumed by "a fire that came out from the
+"Lord." And not only this, but the same merciful
+Jehovah wished to consume all the people, and he
+would have consumed them all, only that Moses pre-
+vailed upon Aaron to take a censer and put fire
+therein from off the altar of incense and go quickly
+to the congregation and make an atonement for them.
+He was not quick enough. The plague had already
+begun; and before he could possibly get the censers
+and incense among the people, fourteen thousand and
+seven hundred had died of the plague. How many
+more might have died, if Jehovah had not been so
+slow to anger and so merciful and tender to his
+children, we have no means of knowing.
+
+In the thirteenth chapter of the same book of
+
+237
+
+Numbers, we find that some spies were sent over
+into the promised land, and that they brought back
+grapes and figs and pomegranates, and reported that
+the whole land was flowing with milk and honey, but
+that the people were strong, that the cities were
+walled, and that the nations in the promised land
+were mightier than the Hebrews. They reported that
+all the people they met were men of a great stature,
+that they had seen "the giants, the sons of Anak
+"which come of giants," compared with whom the
+Israelites were "in their own sight as grasshoppers,
+"and so were we in their sight." Entirely discour-
+aged by these reports, "all the congregation lifted up
+"their voice and cried, and the people wept that
+"night * * * and murmured against Moses and
+"against Aaron, and said unto them: Would God
+"that we had died in the land of Egypt! or would
+"God we had died in this wilderness!" Some of
+them thought that it would be better to go back,--
+that they might as well be slaves in Egypt as to be
+food for giants in the promised land. They did not
+want their bones crunched between the teeth of the
+sons of Anak.
+
+Jehovah got angry again, and said to Moses:
+"How long will these people provoke me? * * *
+
+238
+
+"I will smite them with pestilence, and disinherit
+"them." But Moses said: Lord, if you do this,
+the Egyptians will hear of it, and they will say that
+you were not able to bring your people into the
+promised land. Then he proceeded to flatter him by
+telling him how merciful and long-suffering he had
+been. Finally, Jehovah concluded to pardon the
+people this time, but his pardon depended upon the
+violation of his promise, for he said: "They shall
+"not see the land which I sware unto their fathers,
+"neither shall any of them that provoked me see it;
+"but my servant Caleb, * * * him will I bring
+"into the land." And Jehovah said to the people:
+"Your carcasses shall fall in this wilderness, and all
+"that were numbered of you according to your
+"whole number, from twenty years old and upward,
+"which have murmured against me, ye shall not
+"come into the land concerning which I sware to
+"make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of
+"Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. But your
+"little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them
+"will I bring in, and they shall know the land
+"which ye have despised. But as for you, your
+"carcasses shall fall in this wilderness. And your
+"children shall wander in the wilderness forty
+
+239
+
+"years * * * until your carcasses be wasted in
+"the wilderness."
+
+And all this because the people were afraid of
+giants, compared with whom they were but as grass-
+hoppers.
+
+So we find that at one time the people became
+exceedingly hungry. They had no flesh to eat.
+There were six hundred thousand men of war, and
+they had nothing to feed on but manna. They
+naturally murmured and complained, and thereupon a
+wind from the Lord went forth and brought quails
+from the sea, (quails are generally found in the sea,)
+"and let them fall by the camp, as it were a day's
+"journey on this side, and as it were a day's journey
+"on the other side, round about the camp, and as it
+"were two cubits high upon the face of the earth.
+"And the people stood up all that day, and all that
+"night, and all the next day, and they gathered the
+"quails. * * * And while the flesh was yet be-
+"tween their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of
+"the Lord was kindled against the people, and the
+"Lord smote the people with a very great plague."
+
+Yet he is slow to anger, long-suffering, merciful
+and just.
+
+In the thirty-second chapter of Exodus, is the ac-
+
+240
+
+count of the golden calf. It must be borne in mind
+that the worship of this calf by the people was before
+the Ten Commandments had been given to them.
+Christians now insist that these commandments must
+have been inspired, because no human being could
+have constructed them,--could have conceived of
+them.
+
+It seems, according to this account, that Moses had
+been up in the mount with God, getting the Ten Com-
+mandments, and that while he was there the people
+had made the golden calf. When he came down and
+saw them, and found what they had done, having in
+his hands the two tables, the work of God, he cast
+the tables out of his hands, and broke them beneath
+the mount. He then took the calf which they had
+made, ground it to powder, strewed it in the water,
+and made the children of Israel drink of it. And in the
+twenty-seventh verse we are told what the Lord did:
+"Thus saith the Lord God of Israel: Put every man
+"his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate
+"to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man
+"his brother, and every man his companion, and
+"every man his neighbor. And the children of Levi
+"did according to the word of Moses; and there fell
+"of the people that day about three thousand men."
+
+241
+
+The reason for this slaughter is thus given: "For
+"Moses had said: Consecrate yourselves to-day to
+"the Lord, even every man upon his son, and upon
+" his brother, that he may bestow upon you a blessing
+"this day."
+
+Now, it must be remembered that there had not
+been as yet a promulgation of the commandment
+u Thou shalt have no other gods before me." This
+was a punishment for the infraction of a law before
+the law was known--before the commandment had
+been given. Was it cruel, or unjust?
+
+Does the following sound as though spoken by a
+God of mercy: "I will make mine arrows drunk
+"with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh"?
+And yet this is but a small part of the vengeance and
+destruction which God threatens to his enemies, as
+recorded in the thirty-second chapter of the book of
+Deuteronomy.
+
+In the sixty-eighth Psalm is found this merciful
+passage: "That thy foot may be dipped in the blood
+"of thine enemies, and the tongue of thy dogs in the
+"same.
+
+So we find in the eleventh chapter of Joshua the
+reason why the Canaanites and other nations made
+war upon the Jews. It is as follows: "For it was of
+
+242
+
+"the Lord to harden their hearts that they should
+"come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy
+"them utterly, and that they might have no favor, but
+"that he might destroy them."
+
+Read the thirtieth chapter of Exodus and you will
+find that God gave to Moses a recipe for making
+the oil of holy anointment, and in the thirty-second
+verse we find that no one was to make any oil like it
+and in the next verse it is declared that whoever
+compounded any like it, or whoever put any of it on
+a stranger, should be cut off from the Lord's people.
+
+In the same chapter, a recipe is given for per-
+fumery, and it is declared that whoever shall make
+any like it, or that smells like it, shall suffer death.
+
+In the next chapter, it is decreed that if any one fails
+to keep the Sabbath "he shall be surely put to death."
+
+There are in the Pentateuch hundreds and hun-
+dreds of passages showing the cruelty of Jehovah.
+What could have been more cruel than the flood?
+What more heartless than to overwhelm a world?
+What more merciless than to cover a shoreless sea
+with the corpses of men, women and children?
+
+The Pentateuch is filled with anathemas, with
+curses, with words of vengeance, of jealousy, of
+hatred, and brutality. By reason of these passages,
+
+243
+
+millions of people have plucked from their hearts the
+flowers of pity and justified the murder of women
+and the assassination of babes.
+
+In the second chapter of Second Kings we find
+that the prophet Elisha was on his way to a place
+called Bethel, and as he was going, there came forth
+little children out of the city and mocked him and
+said: "Go up thou bald head; Go up thou bald
+"head! And he turned back and looked on them
+"and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And
+"there came forth two she bears out of the wood and
+"tare forty and two children of them."
+
+Of course he obtained his miraculous power from
+Jehovah; and there must have been some communi-
+cation between Jehovah and the bears. Why did the
+bears come? How did they happen to be there?
+Here is a prophet of God cursing children in the
+name of the Lord, and thereupon these children
+are torn in fragments by wild beasts.
+
+This is the mercy of Jehovah; and yet I am told
+that the Bible has nothing cruel in it; that it preaches
+only mercy, justice, charity, peace; that all hearts
+are softened by reading it; that the savage nature of
+man is melted into tenderness and pity by it, and that
+only the totally depraved can find evil in it.
+
+244
+
+And so I might go on, page after page, book after
+book, in the Old Testament, and describe the cruelties
+committed in accordance with the commands of
+Jehovah.
+
+But all the cruelties in the Old Testament are ab-
+solute mercies compared with the hell of the New
+Testament. In the Old Testament God stops with
+the grave. He seems to have been satisfied when he
+saw his enemies dead, when he saw their flesh rotting
+in the open air, or in the beaks of birds, or in the teeth
+of wild beasts. But in the New Testament, ven-
+geance does not stop with the grave. It begins there,
+and stops never. The enemies of Jehovah are to be
+pursued through all the ages of eternity. There is to
+be no forgiveness--no cessation, no mercy, nothing
+but everlasting pain.
+
+And yet we are told that the author of hell is a
+being of infinite mercy.
+
+_Second_; All intelligent Christians will admit that
+there are many passages in the Bible that, if found in
+the Koran, they would regard as impure and immoral.
+
+It is not necessary for me to specify the passages,
+nor to call the attention of the public to such things.
+I am willing to trust the judgment of every honest
+reader, and the memory of every biblical student.
+
+245
+
+The Old Testament upholds polygamy. That is
+infinitely impure. It sanctions concubinage. That
+is impure; nothing could or can be worse. Hun-
+dreds of things are publicly told that should have re-
+mained unsaid. No one is made better by reading
+the history of Tamar, or the biography of Lot, or
+the memoirs of Noah, of Dinah, of Sarah and
+Abraham, or of Jacob and Leah and Rachel and others
+that I do not care to mention. No one is improved
+in his morals by reading these things.
+
+All I mean to say is, that the Bible is like other
+books produced by other nations in the same stage
+of civilization. What one age considers pure, the
+next considers impure. What one age may consider
+just, the next may look upon as infamous. Civiliza-
+tion is a growth. It is continually dying, and continu-
+ally being born. Old branches rot and fall, new buds
+appear. It is a perpetual twilight, and a perpetual
+dawn--the death of the old, and the birth of the new.
+
+I do not say, throw away the Bible because there
+are some foolish passages in it, but I say, throw away
+the foolish passages. Don't throw away wisdom
+because it is found in company with folly; but do not
+say that folly is wisdom, because it is found in its
+company. All that is true in the Bible is true whether
+
+246
+
+it is inspired or not. All that is true did not need to
+be inspired. Only that which is not true needs the
+assistance of miracles and wonders. I read the Bible
+as I read other books. What I believe to be good,
+I admit is good; what I think is bad, I say is bad;
+what I believe to be true, I say is true, and what I
+believe to be false, I denounce as false.
+
+_Third_. Let us see whether there are any contra-
+dictions in the Bible.
+
+A little book has been published, called "Self
+"Contradictions of the Bible," by J. P. Mendum, of
+The Boston Investigator. I find many of the apparent
+contradictions of the Bible noted in this book.
+
+We all know that the Pentateuch is filled with the
+commandments of God upon the subject of sacrificing
+animals. We know that God declared, again and
+again, that the smell of burning flesh was a sweet
+savor to him. Chapter after chapter is filled with direc-
+tions how to kill the beasts that were set apart for
+sacrifices; what to do with their blood, their flesh and
+their fat. And yet, in the seventh chapter of Jeremiah,
+all this is expressly denied, in the following language:
+"For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded
+"them in the day that I brought them out of the land
+"of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices."
+
+247
+
+And in the sixth chapter of Jeremiah, the same
+Jehovah says; "Your burnt offerings are not ac-
+"ceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me."
+
+In the Psalms, Jehovah derides the idea of
+sacrifices, and says: "Will I eat of the flesh of
+"bulls, or drink the blood of goats? Offer unto God
+"thanksgiving, and pay thy vows unto the Most
+"High."
+
+So I find in Isaiah the following: "Bring no more
+"vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;
+"the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of as-
+"semblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even
+"the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your
+"appointed feasts my soul hateth; they are a trouble
+"to me; I am weary to bear them." "To what
+"purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me?
+"saith the Lord. I am full of the burnt offerings of
+"rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not
+"in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
+"When ye come to appear before me, who hath re-
+"quired this at your hand?"
+
+So I find in James: "Let no man say when he is
+"tempted: I am tempted of God; for God cannot be
+"tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man;"
+and yet in the twenty-second chapter of Genesis I
+
+248
+
+find this: "And it came to pass after these things,
+"that God did tempt Abraham."
+
+In Second Samuel we see that he tempted David.
+He also tempted Job, and Jeremiah says: "O Lord,
+"thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived." To
+such an extent was Jeremiah deceived, that in the
+fourteenth chapter and eighteenth verse we find him
+crying out to the Lord: "Wilt thou be altogether
+"unto me as a liar?"
+
+So in Second Thessalonians: "For these things
+"God shall send them strong delusions, that they
+"should believe a lie."
+
+So in First Kings, twenty-second chapter: "Behold,
+"the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all
+"these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil
+"concerning thee."
+
+So in Ezekiel: "And if the prophet be deceived
+"when he hath spoken a thing, I, the Lord, have de-
+"ceived that prophet."
+
+So I find: "Thou shalt not bear false witness;"
+and in the book of Revelation: "All liars shall have
+"their part in the lake which burneth with fire and
+"brimstone;" yet in First Kings, twenty-second
+chapter, I find the following: "And the Lord said:
+"Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and
+
+249
+
+"fall at Ramoth-Gilead? And one said on this
+"manner, and another said on that manner. And
+"there came forth a spirit and stood before the Lord,
+"and said: I will persuade him. And the Lord said
+"unto him: Wherewith? And he said: I will go
+"forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all
+"his prophets. And he said: Thou shalt persuade
+"him, and prevail also. Go forth, and do so."
+
+In the Old Testament we find contradictory laws
+about the same thing, and contradictory accounts of
+the same occurrences.
+
+In the twentieth chapter of Exodus we find the first
+account of the giving of the Ten Commandments. In
+the thirty-fourth chapter another account of the same
+transaction is given. These two accounts could not
+have been written by the same person. Read them,
+and you will be forced to admit that both of them
+cannot by any possibility be true. They differ in so
+many particulars, and the commandments themselves
+are so different, that it is impossible that both can be
+true.
+
+So there are two histories of the creation. If you
+will read the first and second chapters of Genesis,
+you will find two accounts inconsistent with each
+other, both of which cannot be true. The first account
+
+250
+
+ends with the third verse of the second chapter of
+Genesis. By the first account, man and woman were
+made at the same time, and made last of all. In the
+second account, not to be too critical, all the beasts
+of the field were made before Eve was, and Adam
+was made before the beasts of the field; whereas in
+the first account, God made all the animals before he
+made Adam. In the first account there is nothing
+about the rib or the bone or the side,--that is only
+found in the second account. In the first account,
+there is nothing about the Garden of Eden, nothing
+about the four rivers, nothing about the mist that
+went up from the earth and watered the whole face
+of the ground; nothing said about making man from
+dust; nothing about God breathing into his nostrils
+the breath of life; yet according to the second ac-
+count, the Garden of Eden was planted, and all the
+animals were made before Eve was formed. It is
+impossible to harmonize the two accounts.
+
+So, in the first account, only the word God is
+used--"God said so and so,--God did so and so."
+In the second account he is called Lord God,--"the
+"Lord God formed man,"--"the Lord God caused
+"it to rain,"--"the Lord God planted a garden." It
+is now admitted that the book of Genesis is made up
+
+251
+
+of two stories, and it is very easy to take them apart
+and show exactly how they were put together.
+
+So there are two stories of the flood, differing
+almost entirely from each other--that is to say, so
+contradictory that both cannot be true.
+
+There are two accounts of the manner in which
+Saul was made king, and the accounts are inconsistent
+with each other.
+
+Scholars now everywhere admit that the copyists
+made many changes, pieced out fragments, and made
+additions, interpolations, and meaningless repetitions.
+It is now generally conceded that the speeches of
+Elihu, in Job, were interpolated, and most of the
+prophecies were made by persons whose names even
+are not known.
+
+The manuscripts of the Old Testament were not
+alike. The Greek version differed from the Hebrew,
+and there was no generally received text of the Old
+Testament until after the beginning of the Christian
+era. Marks and points to denote vowels were in-
+vented probably in the seventh century after Christ;
+and whether these marks and points were put in the
+proper places, is still an open question. The Alex-
+andrian version, or what is known as the Septuagint,
+translated by seventy-two learned Jews assisted by
+
+252
+
+miraculous power, about two hundred years before
+Christ, could not, it is now said, have been translated
+from the Hebrew text that we now have. This can
+only be accounted for by supposing that we have a
+different Hebrew text. The early Christians adopted
+the Septuagint and were satisfied for a time; but so
+many errors were found, and so many were scanning
+every word in search of something to assist their
+peculiar views, that new versions were produced,
+and the new versions all differed somewhat from the
+Septuagint as well as from each other. These ver-
+sions were mostly in Greek. The first Latin Bible
+was produced in Africa, and no one has ever found
+out which Latin manuscript was original. Many were
+produced, and all differed from each other. These
+Latin versions were compared with each other and
+with the Hebrew, and a new Latin version was made
+in the fifth century, and the old ones held their own
+for about four hundred years, and no one knows
+which version was right. Besides, there were Ethi-
+opie, Egyptian, Armenian and several other ver-
+sions, all differing from each other as well as from all
+others. It was not until the fourteenth century that
+the Bible was translated into German, and not until
+the fifteenth that Bibles were printed in the principal
+
+253
+
+languages of Europe; and most of these Bibles
+differed from each other, and gave rise to endless
+disputes and to almost numberless crimes.
+
+No man in the world is learned enough, nor has
+he time enough, even if he could live a thousand
+years, to find what books belonged to and consti-
+tuted the Old Testament. He could not ascertain
+the authors of the books, nor when they were written,
+nor what they mean. Until a man has sufficient
+time to do all this, no one can tell whether he be-
+lieves the Bible or not. It is sufficient, however, to
+say that the Old Testament is filled with contradic-
+tions as to the number of men slain in battle, as to
+the number of years certain kings reigned, as to the
+number of a woman's children, as to dates of events,
+and as to locations of towns and cities.
+
+Besides all this, many of its laws are contradictory,
+often commanding and prohibiting the same thing.
+
+The New Testament also is filled with contradic-
+tions. The gospels do not even agree upon the
+terms of salvation. They do not even agree as to
+the gospel of Christ, as to the mission of Christ.
+They do not tell the same story regarding the be-
+trayal, the crucifixion, the resurrection or the ascen-
+sion of Christ. John is the only one that ever heard
+
+254
+
+of being "born again." The evangelists do not give
+the same account of the same miracles, and the
+miracles are not given in the same order. They do
+not agree even in the genealogy of Christ.
+
+_Fourth_. Is the Bible scientific? In my judgment
+it is not
+
+It is unscientific to say that this world was "cre-
+"ated that the universe was produced by an infinite
+being, who had existed an eternity prior to such
+"creation." My mind is such that I cannot possibly
+conceive of a "creation." Neither can I conceive of
+an infinite being who dwelt in infinite space an infi-
+nite length of time.
+
+I do not think it is scientific to say that the uni-
+verse was made in six days, or that this world is only
+about six thousand years old, or that man has only
+been upon the earth for about six thousand years.
+
+If the Bible is true, Adam was the first man. The
+age of Adam is given, the age of his children, and
+the time, according to the Bible, was kept and known
+from Adam, so that if the Bible is true, man has only
+been in this world about six thousand years. In my
+judgment, and in the judgment of every scientific
+man whose judgment is worth having or quoting,
+man inhabited this earth for thousands of ages prior
+
+255
+
+to the creation of Adam. On one point the Bible is
+at least certain, and that is, as to the life of Adam.
+The genealogy is given, the pedigree is there, and it
+is impossible to escape the conclusion that, according
+to the Bible, man has only been upon this earth
+about six thousand years. There is no chance there
+to say "long periods of time," or "geological ages."
+There we have the years. And as to the time of the
+creation of man, the Bible does not tell the truth.
+
+What is generally called "The Fall of Man" is
+unscientific. God could not have made a moral
+character for Adam. Even admitting the rest of the
+story to be true, Adam certainly had to make char-
+acter for himself.
+
+The idea that there never would have been any
+disease or death in this world had it not been for the
+eating of the forbidden fruit is preposterously unsci-
+entific. Admitting that Adam was made only six
+thousand years ago, death was in the world millions of
+years before that time. The old rocks are filled with re-
+mains of what were once living and breathing animals.
+Continents were built up with the petrified corpses of
+animals. We know, therefore, that death did not enter
+the world because of Adam's sin. We know that life
+and death are but successive links in an eternal chain.
+
+256
+
+So it is unscientific to say that thorns and brambles
+were produced by Adam's sin.
+
+It is also unscientific to say that labor was pro-
+nounced as a curse upon man. Labor is not a curse.
+Labor is a blessing. Idleness is a curse.
+
+It is unscientific to say that the sons of God,
+living, we suppose, in heaven, fell in love with the
+daughters of men, and that on account of this a
+flood was sent upon the earth that covered the
+highest mountains.
+
+The whole story of the flood is unscientific, and no
+scientific man worthy of the name, believes it.
+
+Neither is the story of the tower of Babel a scien-
+tific thing. Does any scientific man believe that
+God confounded the language of men for fear they
+would succeed in building a tower high enough to
+reach to heaven?
+
+It is not scientific to say that angels were in the
+habit of walking about the earth, eating veal dressed
+with butter and milk, and making bargains about the
+destruction of cities.
+
+The story of Lot's wife having been turned into a
+pillar of salt is extremely unscientific.
+
+It is unscientific to say that people at one time lived
+to be nearly a thousand years of age. The history
+
+257
+
+of the world shows that human life is lengthening
+instead of shortening.
+
+It is unscientific to say that the infinite God
+wrestled with Jacob and got the better of him, put-
+ting his thigh out of joint.
+
+It is unscientific to say that God, in the likeness of
+a flame of fire, inhabited a bush.
+
+It is unscientific to say that a stick could be
+changed into a living snake. Living snakes can not
+be made out of sticks. There are not the necessary
+elements in a stick to make a snake.
+
+It is not scientific to say that God changed water
+into blood. All the elements of blood are not in
+water.
+
+It is unscientific to declare that dust was changed
+into lice.
+
+It is not scientific to say that God caused a thick
+darkness over the land of Egypt, and yet allowed it
+to be light in the houses of the Jews.
+
+It is not scientific to say that about seventy people
+could, in two hundred and fifteen years increase to
+three millions.
+
+It is not scientific to say that an infinitely good
+God would destroy innocent people to get revenge
+upon a king.
+
+258
+
+It is not scientific to say that slavery was once
+right, that polygamy was once a virtue, and that ex-
+termination was mercy.
+
+It is not scientific to assert that a being of infinite
+power and goodness went into partnership with in-
+sects,--granted letters of marque and reprisal to
+hornets.
+
+It is unscientific to insist that bread was really
+rained from heaven.
+
+It is not scientific to suppose that an infinite being
+spent forty days and nights furnishing Moses with plans
+and specifications for a tabernacle, an ark, a mercy seat,
+cherubs of gold, a table, four rings, some dishes, some
+spoons, one candlestick, several bowls, a few knobs,
+seven lamps, some snuffers, a pair of tongs, some cur-
+tains, a roof for a tent of rams' skins dyed red, a few
+boards, an altar with horns, ash pans, basins and flesh
+hooks, shovels and pots and sockets of silver and
+ouches of gold and pins of brass--for all of which this
+God brought with him patterns from heaven.
+
+It is not scientific to say that when a man commits
+a sin, he can settle with God by killing a sheep.
+
+It is not scientific to say that a priest, by laying
+his hands on the head of a goat, can transfer the sins
+of a people to the animal.
+
+259
+
+Was it scientific to endeavor to ascertain whether
+a woman was virtuous or not, by compelling her to
+drink water mixed with dirt from the floor of the
+sanctuary?
+
+Is it scientific to say that a dry stick budded,
+blossomed, and bore almonds; or that the ashes of a
+red heifer mixed with water can cleanse us of sin;
+or that a good being gave cities into the hands of the
+Jews in consideration of their murdering all the in-
+habitants?
+
+Is it scientific to say that an animal saw an angel,
+and conversed with a man?
+
+Is it scientific to imagine that thrusting a spear
+through the body of a woman ever stayed a plague?
+
+Is it scientific to say that a river cut itself in two
+and allowed the lower end to run off?
+
+Is it scientific to assert that seven priests blew
+seven rams' horns loud enough to blow down the
+walls of a city?
+
+Is it scientific to say that the sun stood still in the
+midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down for
+about a whole day, and that the moon also stayed?
+
+Is it scientifically probable that an angel of the
+Lord devoured unleavened cakes and broth with
+fire that came out of the end of a stick, as he sat
+
+260
+
+under an oak tree; or that God made known his
+will by letting dew fall on wool without wetting the
+ground around it; or that an angel of God appeared
+to Manoah in the absence of her husband, and that
+this angel afterwards went up in a flame of fire, and
+as the result of this visit a child was born whose
+strength was in his hair?
+
+Is it scientific to say that the muscle of a man de-
+pended upon the length of his locks?
+
+Is it unscientific to deny that water gushed from a
+hollow place in a dry bone?
+
+Is it evidence of a thoroughly scientific mind to
+believe that one man turned over a house so large
+that three thousand people were on its roof?
+
+Is it purely scientific to say that a man was once
+fed by the birds of the air, who brought him bread
+and meat every morning and evening, and that after-
+ward an angel turned cook and prepared two sup-
+pers in one night, for the same prophet, who ate
+enough to last him forty days and forty nights?
+
+Is it scientific to say that a river divided because
+the water had been struck with a cloak; or that a
+man actually went to heaven in a chariot of fire
+drawn by horses of fire; or that a being of infinite
+mercy would destroy children for laughing at a bald-
+
+261
+
+headed prophet; or curse children and childrens
+children with leprosy for a father's fault; or that he
+made iron float in water; or that when one corpse
+touched another it came to life; or that the sun went
+backward in heaven so that the shadow on a sun-
+dial went back ten degrees, as a sign that a miserable
+barbarian king would get well?
+
+Is it scientific to say that the earth not only
+stopped in its rotary motion, but absolutely turned
+the other way,--that its motion was reversed simply
+as a sign to a petty king?
+
+Is it scientific to say that Solomon made gold and
+silver at Jerusalem as plentiful as stones, when we
+know that there were kings in his day who could
+have thrown away the value of the whole of Palestine
+without missing the amount?
+
+Is it scientific to say that Solomon exceeded all
+the kings of the earth in glory, when his country
+was barren, without roads, when his people were
+few, without commerce, without the arts, without the
+sciences, without education, without luxuries?
+
+According to the Bible, as long as Jehovah attended
+to the affairs of the Jews, they had nothing but war,
+pestilence and famine; after Jehovah abandoned them,
+and the Christians ceased, in a measure, to persecute
+
+262
+
+them, the Jews became the most prosperous of people.
+Since Jehovah in his anger cast them away, they have
+produced painters, sculptors, scientists, statesmen,
+composers, soldiers and philosophers.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that God ever pre-
+vented rain, that he ever caused famine, that he ever
+sent locusts to devour the wheat and corn, that he
+ever relied on pestilence for the government of man-
+kind; or that he ever killed children to get even with
+their parents.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that the king of Egypt
+invaded Palestine with seventy thousand horsemen
+and twelve hundred chariots of war. There was not,
+at that time, a road in Palestine over which a chariot
+could be driven.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that in a battle between
+Jeroboam and Abijah, the army of Abijah slew in
+one day five hundred thousand chosen men.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that Zerah, the Ethio-
+pian, invaded Palestine with a million of men who
+were overthrown and destroyed; or that Jehoshaphat
+had a standing army of nine hundred and sixty
+thousand men.
+
+It is unscientific to believe that Jehovah advertised
+for a liar, as is related in Second Chronicles.
+
+263
+
+It is not scientific to believe that fire refused to
+burn, or that water refused to wet.
+
+It is not scientific to believe in dreams, in visions,
+and in miracles.
+
+It is not scientific to believe that children have
+been born without fathers, that the dead have ever
+been raised to life, or that people have bodily as-
+cended to heaven taking their clothes with them.
+
+It is not scientific to believe in the supernatural.
+Science dwells in the realm of fact, in the realm of
+demonstration. Science depends upon human ex-
+perience, upon observation, upon reason.
+
+It is unscientific to say that an innocent man can
+be punished in place of a criminal, and for a criminal,
+and that the criminal, on account of such punishment,
+can be justified.
+
+It is unscientific to say that a finite sin deserves
+infinite punishment.
+
+It is unscientific to believe that devils can inhabit
+human beings, or that they can take possession of
+swine, or that the devil could bodily take a man, or
+the Son of God, and carry him to the pinnacle of a
+temple.
+
+In short, the foolish, the unreasonable, the false,
+the miraculous and the supernatural are unscientific.
+
+264
+
+_Question_. Mr. Talmage gives his reason for
+accepting the New Testament, and says: "You
+"can trace it right out. Jerome and Eusebius in the
+"first century, and Origen in the second century,
+"gave lists of the writers of the New Testament.
+"These lists correspond with our list of the writers
+"of the New Testament, showing that precisely as
+"we have it, they had it in the third and fourth cen-
+"turies. Where did they get it? From Irenaeus.
+"Where did he get it? From Polycarp. Where did
+"Polycarp get it? From Saint John, who was a per-
+"sonal associate of Jesus. The line is just as clear
+"as anything ever was clear." How do you under-
+stand this matter, and has Mr. Talmage stated the
+facts?
+
+_Answer_. Let us examine first the witnesses pro-
+duced by Mr. Talmage. We will also call attention
+to the great principle laid down by Mr. Talmage for
+the examination of evidence,--that where a witness
+is found false in one particular, his entire testimony
+must be thrown away.
+
+Eusebius was born somewhere about two hundred
+and seventy years after Christ. After many vicissi-
+tudes he became, it is said, the friend of Constantine.
+He made an oration in which he extolled the virtues
+
+265
+
+of this murderer, and had the honor of sitting at the
+right hand of the man who had shed the blood of his
+wife and son. In the great controversy with regard
+to the position that Christ should occupy in the Trinity,
+he sided with Arius, "and lent himself to the perse-
+"cution of the orthodox with Athanasius." He in-
+sisted that Jesus Christ was not the same as God,
+and that he was not of equal power and glory. Will
+Mr. Talmage admit that his witness told the truth in
+this? "He would not even call the Son co-eternal
+"with God."
+
+Eusebius must have been an exceedingly truthful
+man. He declared that the tracks of Pharaoh's chariots
+were in his day visible upon the shores of the Red
+Sea; that these tracks had been through all the years
+miraculously preserved from the action of wind and
+wave, as a supernatural testimony to the fact that
+God miraculously overwhelmed Pharaoh and his
+hosts.
+
+Eusebius also relates that when Joseph and Mary
+arrived in Eygpt they took up their abode in Hermopolis,
+
+a city of Thebaeus, in which was the superb
+temple of Serapis. When Joseph and Mary entered
+the temple, not only the great idol, but all the lesser
+idols fell down before him.
+
+266
+
+"It is believed by the learned Dr. Lardner, that
+"Eusebius was the one guilty of the forgery in the
+"passage found in Josephus concerning Christ. Un-
+"blushing falsehoods and literary forgeries of the
+"vilest character darkened the pages of his historical
+"writings." (Waites History.)
+
+From the same authority I learn that Eusebius
+invented an eclipse, and some earthquakes, to agree
+with the account of the crucifixion. It is also be-
+lieved that Eusebius quoted from works that never
+existed, and that he pretended a work had been
+written by Porphyry, entitled: "The Philosophy of
+"Oracles," and then quoted from it for the purpose
+of proving the truth of the Christian religion.
+
+The fact is, Eusebius was utterly destitute of truth.
+He believed, as many still believe, that he could
+please God by the fabrication of lies.
+
+Irenaeus lived somewhere about the end of the
+second century. "Very little is known of his early
+"history, and the accounts given in various biogra-
+"phies are for the most part conjectural." The
+writings of Irenaeus are known to us principally
+through Eusebius, and we know the value of his
+testimony.
+
+Now, if we are to take the testimony of Irenaeus,
+
+267
+
+why not take it? He says that the ministry of Christ
+lasted for twenty years, and that Christ was fifty years
+old at the time of his crucifixion. He also insisted
+that the "Gospel of Paul" was written by Luke, "a
+"statement made to give sanction to the gospel of
+"Luke."
+
+Irenaeus insisted that there were four gospels, that
+there must be, and "he speaks frequently of these
+"gospels, and argues that they should be four in
+"number, neither more nor less, because there are
+"four universal winds, and four quarters of the
+"world;" and he might have added: because
+donkeys have four legs.
+
+These facts can be found in "The History of the
+"Christian Religion to A. D. 200," by Charles B.
+Waite,--a book that Mr. Talmage ought to read.
+
+According to Mr. Waite, Irenaeus, in the thirty-
+third chapter of his fifth book, _Adversus Haereses_,
+cites from Papias the following sayings of Christ:
+"The days will come in which vines shall grow
+"which shall have ten thousand branches, and on
+"each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each twig
+"ten thousand shoots, and in each shoot ten thousand
+"clusters, and in every one of the clusters ten
+"thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed
+
+268
+
+"will give five and twenty metrets of wine." Also
+that "one thousand million pounds of clear, pure, fine
+"flour will be produced from one grain of wheat."
+Irenaeus adds that "these things were borne witness
+"to by Papias the hearer of John and the companion
+"of Polycarp."
+
+Is it possible that the eternal welfare of a human
+being depends upon believing the testimony of Poly-
+carp and Irenaeus? Are people to be saved or lost
+on the reputation of Eusebius? Suppose a man is
+firmly convinced that Polycarp knew nothing about
+Saint John, and that Saint John knew nothing about
+Christ,--what then? Suppose he is convinced that
+Eusebius is utterly unworthy of credit,--what then?
+Must a man believe statements that he has every
+reason to think are false?
+
+The question arises as to the witnesses named by
+Mr. Talmage, whether they were competent to decide
+as to the truth or falsehood of the gospels. We have
+the right to inquire into their mental traits for the
+purpose of giving only due weight to what they have
+said.
+
+Mr. Bronson C. Keeler is the author of a book
+called: "A Short History of the Bible." I avail
+myself of a few of the facts he has there collected. I
+
+269
+
+find in this book, that Irenaeus, Clement and Origen
+believed in the fable of the Phoenix, and insisted that
+God produced the bird on purpose to prove the
+probability of the resurrection of the body. Some
+of the early fathers believed that the hyena changed
+its sex every year. Others of them gave as a reason
+why good people should eat only animals with a
+cloven foot, the fact that righteous people lived not
+only in this world, but had expectations in the next.
+They also believed that insane people were pos-
+sessed by devils; that angels ate manna; that some
+angels loved the daughters of men and fell; that the
+pains of women in childbirth, and the fact that ser-
+pents crawl on their bellies, were proofs that the
+account of the fall, as given in Genesis, is true; that
+the stag renewed its youth by eating poisonous
+snakes; that eclipses and comets were signs of God's
+anger; that volcanoes were openings into hell; that
+demons blighted apples; that a corpse in a cemetery
+moved to make room for another corpse to be placed
+beside it. Clement of Alexandria believed that hail
+storms, tempests and plagues were caused by demons.
+He also believed, with Mr. Talmage, that the events
+in the life of Abraham were typical and prophetical
+of arithmetic and astronomy.
+
+270
+
+Origen, another of the witnesses of Mr. Talmage,
+said that the sun, moon and stars were living crea-
+tures, endowed with reason and free will, and occa-
+sionally inclined to sin. That they had free will, he
+proved by quoting from Job; that they were rational
+creatures, he inferred from the fact that they moved.
+The sun, moon and stars, according to him, were
+"subject to vanity," and he believed that they prayed
+to God through his only begotten son.
+
+These intelligent witnesses believed that the blight-
+ing of vines and fruit trees, and the disease and de-
+struction that came upon animals and men, were all
+the work of demons; but that when they had entered
+into men, the sign of the cross would drive them out.
+They derided the idea that the earth is round, and
+one of them said: "About the antipodes also, one
+"can neither hear nor speak without laughter. It is
+"asserted as something serious that we should be-
+"lieve that there are men who have their feet oppo-
+"site to ours. The ravings of Anaxagoras are more
+"tolerable, who said that snow was black."
+
+Concerning these early fathers, Professor Davidson,
+as quoted by Mr. Keeler, uses the following lan-
+guage: "Of the three fathers who contributed
+"most to the growth of the canon, Irenaeus was
+
+ 271
+
+"credulous and blundering; Tertullian passionate
+"and one-sided; and Clement of Alexandria, im-
+"bued with the treasures of Greek wisdom, was
+"mainly occupied with ecclesiastical ethics. Their
+"assertions show both ignorance and exaggeration."
+These early fathers relied upon by Mr. Talmage,
+quoted from books now regarded as apocryphal--
+books that have been thrown away by the church
+and are no longer considered as of the slightest
+authority. Upon this subject I again quote Mr.
+Keeler: "Clement quoted the 'Gospel according to
+"'the Hebrews,' which is now thrown away by the
+"church; he also quoted from the Sibylline books
+"and the Pentateuch in the same sentence. Origen
+"frequently cited the Gospel of the Hebrews. Jerome
+"did the same, and Clement believed in the 'Gospel
+"'according to the Egyptians.' The Shepherd of
+"Hermas, a book in high repute in the early church,
+"and one which distinctly claims to have been
+"inspired, was quoted by Irenaeus as Scripture.
+"Clement of Alexandria said it was a divine revela-
+"tion. Origen said it was divinely inspired, and
+"quoted it as Holy Scripture at the same time that
+"he cited the Psalms and Epistles of Paul. Jerome
+"quoted the 'Wisdom of Jesus, the Son of Sirach,'
+
+272
+
+"as divine Scripture. Origen quotes the 'Wisdom
+"of Solomon' as the 'Word of God' and 'the
+"'words of Christ himself.' Eusebius of Caesarea
+"cites it as a * Divine Oracle,' and St. Chrysostom
+"used it as Scripture. So Eusebius quotes the
+"thirteenth chapter of Daniel as Scripture, but as a
+"matter of fact, Daniel has not a thirteenth chapter,--
+"the church has taken it away. Clement spoke of
+"the writer of the fourth book of Esdras as a prophet;
+"he thought Baruch as much the word of God as
+"any other book, and he quotes it as divine Scripture.
+"Clement cites Barnabas as an apostle. Origen
+"quotes from the Epistle of Barnabas, calls it 'Holy
+" 'Scripture,' and places it on a level with the Psalms
+"and the Epistles of Paul; and Clement of Alexan-
+"dria believed in the 'Epistle of Barnabas,' and the
+"'Revelation, of Peter,' and wrote comments upon
+"these holy books."
+
+Nothing can exceed the credulity of the early
+fathers, unless it may be their ignorance. They be-
+lieved everything that was miraculous. They believed
+everything except the truth. Anything that really
+happened was considered of no importance by them.
+They looked for wonders, miracles, and monstrous
+things, and--generally found them. They revelled
+
+273
+
+in the misshapen and the repulsive. They did not
+think it wrong to swear falsely in a good cause.
+They interpolated, forged, and changed the records to
+suit themselves, for the sake of Christ. They quoted
+from persons who never wrote. They misrepresented
+those who had written, and their evidence is abso-
+lutely worthless. They were ignorant, credulous,
+mendacious, fanatical, pious, unreasonable, bigoted,
+hypocritical, and for the most part, insane. Read the
+book of Revelation, and you will agree with me that
+nothing that ever emanated from a madhouse can
+more than equal it for incoherence. Most of the
+writings of the early fathers are of the same kind.
+
+As to Saint John, the real truth is, that we know
+nothing certainly of him. We do not know that he
+ever lived.
+
+We know nothing certainly of Jesus Christ. We
+know nothing of his infancy, nothing of his youth,
+and we are not sure that such a person ever existed.
+
+We know nothing of Polycarp. We do not know
+where he was born, or where, or how he died. We
+know nothing for certain about Irenaeus. All the
+names quoted by Mr. Talmage as his witnesses
+are surrounded by clouds and doubts, by mist and
+darkness. We only know that many of their
+
+274
+
+statements are false, and do not know that any of
+them are true.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the following state-
+ment by Mr. Talmage: "Oh, I have to tell you that no
+"man ever died for a lie cheerfully and triumphantly"?
+
+_Answer_. There was a time when men "cheerfully
+"and triumphantly died" in defence of the doctrine
+of the "real presence" of God in the wafer and wine.
+Does Mr. Talmage believe in the doctrine of "tran-
+"substantiation"? Yet hundreds have died "cheer-
+"fully and triumphantly" for it. Men have died for
+the idea that baptism by immersion is the only
+scriptural baptism. Did they die for a lie? If not,
+is Mr. Talmage a Baptist?
+
+Giordano Bruno was an atheist, yet he perished at
+the stake rather than retract his opinions. He did
+not expect to be welcomed by angels and by God.
+He did not look for a crown of glory. He expected
+simply death and eternal extinction. Does the fact
+that he died for that belief prove its truth?
+
+Thousands upon thousands have died in defence of
+the religion of Mohammed. Was Mohammed an im-
+postor? Thousands have welcomed death in defence
+of the doctrines of Buddha. Is Buddhism true?
+
+275
+
+So I might make a tour of the world, and of all
+ages of human history, and find that millions and
+millions have died "cheerfully and triumphantly" in
+defence of their opinions. There is not the slightest
+truth in Mr. Talmage's statement.
+
+A little while ago, a man shot at the Czar of Russia.
+On the day of his execution he was asked if he
+wished religious consolation. He replied that he
+believed in no religion. What did that prove? It
+proved only the man's honesty of opinion. All the
+martyrs in the world cannot change, never did
+change, a falsehood into a truth, nor a truth into
+a falsehood. Martyrdom proves nothing but the
+sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty and mean-
+ness of his murderers. Thousands and thousands of
+people have imagined that they knew things, that
+they were certain, and have died rather than retract
+their honest beliefs.
+
+Mr. Talmage now says that he knows all about the
+Old Testament, that the prophecies were fulfilled,
+and yet he does not know when the prophecies were
+made--whether they were made before or after the
+fact. He does not know whether the destruction of
+Babylon was told before it happened, or after. He
+knows nothing upon the subject. He does not know
+
+276
+
+who made the pretended prophecies. He does not
+know that Isaiah, or Jeremiah, or Habakkuk, or
+Hosea ever lived in this world. He does not know
+who wrote a single book of the Old Testament. He
+knows nothing on the subject. He believes in the
+inspiration of the Old Testament because ancient
+cities finally fell into decay--were overrun and de-
+stroyed by enemies, and he accounts for the fact that
+the Jew does not lose his nationality by saying that
+the Old Testament is true.
+
+The Jews have been persecuted by the Christians,
+and they are still persecuted by them; and Mr. Tal-
+mage seems to think that this persecution was a part
+of Gods plan, that the Jews might, by persecution,
+be prevented from mingling with other nationalities,
+and so might stand, through the instrumentality of
+perpetual hate and cruelty, the suffering witnesses of
+the divine truth of the Bible.
+
+The Jews do not testify to the truth of the Bible,
+but to the barbarism and inhumanity of Christians--
+to the meanness and hatred of what we are pleased
+to call the "civilized world." They testify to the fact
+that nothing so hardens the human heart as religion.
+
+There is no prophecy in the Old Testament fore-
+telling the coming of Jesus Christ. There is not one
+
+277
+
+word in the Old Testament referring to him in any
+way--not one word. The only way to prove this
+is to take your Bible, and wherever you find these
+words: "That it might be fulfilled," and "which
+"was spoken," turn to the Old Testament and
+find what was written, and you will see that it had
+not the slightest possible reference to the thing re-
+counted in the New Testament--not the slightest.
+
+Let us take some of the prophecies of the Bible,
+and see how plain they are, and how beautiful they
+are. Let us see whether any human being can tell
+whether they have ever been fulfilled or not.
+
+Here is a vision of Ezekiel: "I looked, and be-
+"hold a whirlwind came out of the north, a great
+"cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness
+"was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the
+"color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also
+"out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four
+"living creatures. And this was their appearance;
+"they had the likeness of a man. And every one
+"had four faces, and every one had four wings.
+"And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of
+"their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they
+"sparkled like the color of burnished brass. And
+"they had the hands of a man under their wings on
+
+278
+
+"their four sides; and they four had their faces and
+"their wings. Their wings were joined one to
+"another; they turned not when-they went; they
+"went every one straight forward. As for the like-
+"ness of their faces, they four had the face of a man,
+"and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they
+"four had the face of an ox on the left side; they
+"four also had the face of an eagle.
+
+"Thus were their faces: and their wings were
+"stretched upward; two wings of every one were
+"joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.
+"And they went every one straight forward: whither
+"the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not
+"when they went.
+
+"As for the likeness of the living creatures, their
+"appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like
+"the appearance of lamps: it went up and down
+"among the living creatures; and the fire was bright,
+"and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the
+"living creatures ran and returned as the appearance
+"of a flash of lightning.
+
+"Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one
+"wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with
+"his four faces. The appearance of the wheels and
+"their work was like unto the color of a beryl: and
+
+279
+
+"they four had one likeness: and their appearance
+"and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle
+"of a wheel. When they went, they went upon
+"their four sides: and they turned not when they
+"went. As for their rings, they were so high that
+"they were dreadful; and their rings were full of
+"eyes round about them four. And when the living
+"creatures went, the wheels went by them: and
+"when the living creatures were lifted up from the
+"earth, the wheels were lifted up. Whithersoever
+"the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their
+"spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over
+"against them: for the spirit of the living creature
+"was in the wheels. When those went, these went;
+"and when those stood, these stood; and when those
+"were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were
+"lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the
+"living creature was in the wheels. And the like-
+"ness of the firmament upon the heads of the living
+"creature was as the color of the terrible crystal,
+"stretched forth over their heads above. And under
+"the firmament were their wings straight, the one
+"toward the other; every one had two, which
+"covered on this side, and every one had two,
+"which covered on that side, their bodies."
+
+280
+
+Is such a vision a prophecy? Is it calculated
+to convey the slightest information? If so, what?
+
+So, the following vision of the prophet Daniel is
+exceedingly important and instructive:
+
+"Daniel spake and said: I saw in my vision by
+"night, and behold, the four winds of the heaven
+"strove upon the great sea. And four great beasts
+"came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
+"The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings:
+"I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it
+"was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon
+"the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to
+"it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a
+"bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had
+"three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of
+"it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much
+"flesh.
+
+"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard,
+"which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl;
+"the beast had also four heads, and dominion was
+"given to it.
+
+"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold
+"a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong ex-
+"ceedingly; and it had great iron teeth; it devoured
+"and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with
+
+281
+
+"the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts
+"that were before it, and it had ten horns. I con-
+"sidered the horns, and, behold, there came up
+"among them another little horn, before whom
+"there were three of the first horns plucked up by
+"the roots: and behold, in this horn were eyes like
+"the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great
+"things."
+
+I have no doubt that this prophecy has been liter-
+ally fulfilled, but I am not at present in condition to
+give the time, place, or circumstances.
+
+A few moments ago, my attention was called to
+the following extract from _The New York Herald_ of
+the thirteenth of March, instant:
+
+"At the Fifth Avenue Baptist Church, Dr. Armi-
+"tage took as his text, 'A wheel in the middle of a
+"'wheel'--Ezekiel, i., 16. Here, said the preacher,
+"are three distinct visions in one--the living crea-
+"tures, the moving wheels and the fiery throne. We
+"have time only to stop the wheels of this mystic
+"chariot of Jehovah, that we may hold holy converse
+"with Him who rides upon the wings of the wind.
+"In this vision of the prophet we have a minute and
+"amplified account of these magnificent symbols or
+"hieroglyphics, this wondrous machinery which de-
+
+282
+
+"notes immense attributes and agencies and voli-
+"tions, passing their awful and mysterious course of
+"power and intelligence in revolution after revolu-
+"tion of the emblematical mechanism, in steady and
+"harmonious advancement to the object after which
+"they are reaching. We are compelled to look
+"upon the whole as symbolical of that tender and
+"endearing providence of which Jesus spoke when
+"He said, 'The very hairs of your head are num-
+"* bered.'"
+
+Certainly, an ordinary person, not having been
+illuminated by the spirit of prophecy, would never
+have even dreamed that there was the slightest re-
+ference in Ezekiel's vision to anything like counting
+hairs. As a commentator, the Rev. Dr. Armitage
+has no equal; and, in my judgment, no rival. He
+has placed himself beyond the reach of ridicule. It
+is impossible to say anything about his sermon as
+laughable as his sermon.
+
+_Question_. Have you no confidence in any pro-
+phecies? Do you take the ground that there never
+has been a human being who could predict the
+future?
+
+_Answer_. I admit that a man of average intelli-
+
+283
+
+gence knows that a certain course, when pursued
+long enough, will bring national disaster, and it is
+perfectly safe to predict the downfall of any and
+every country in the world. In my judgment,
+nations, like individuals, have an average life.
+Every nation is mortal. An immortal nation cannot
+be constructed of mortal individuals. A nation has
+a reason for existing, and that reason sustains the
+same relation to the nation that the acorn does to
+the oak. The nation will attain its growth--other
+things being equal. It will reach its manhood and
+its prime, but it will sink into old age, and at last
+must die. Probably, in a few thousand years, men
+will be able to calculate the average life of nations,
+as they now calculate the average life of persons.
+There has been no period since the morning of his-
+tory until now, that men did not know of dead and
+dying nations. There has always been a national
+cemetery. Poland is dead, Turkey is dying. In
+every nation are the seeds of dissolution. Not only
+nations die, but races of men. A nation is born,
+becomes powerful, luxurious, at last grows weak, is
+overcome, dies, and another takes its place, In this
+way civilization and barbarism, like day and night,
+alternate through all of history's years.
+
+284
+
+In every nation there are at least two classes of
+men: First, the enthusiastic, the patriotic, who be-
+lieve that the nation will live forever,--that its flag
+will float while the earth has air; Second, the owls
+and ravens and croakers, who are always predicting
+disaster, defeat, and death. To the last class belong
+the Jeremiahs, Ezekiels, and Isaiahs of the Jews.
+They were always predicting the downfall of Jeru-
+salem. They revelled in defeat and captivity. They
+loved to paint the horrors of famine and war. For
+the most part, they were envious, hateful, misan-
+thropic and unjust.
+
+There seems to have been a war between church
+and state. The prophets were endeavoring to pre-
+serve the ecclesiastical power. Every king who would
+listen to them, was chosen of God. He instantly
+became the model of virtue, and the prophets assured
+him that he was in the keeping of Jehovah. But if
+the king had a mind of his own, the prophets im-
+mediately called down upon him all the curses of
+heaven, and predicted the speedy destruction of his
+kingdom.
+
+If our own country should be divided, if an empire
+should rise upon the ruins of the Republic, it would
+be very easy to find that hundreds and thousands of
+
+285
+
+people had foretold that very thing. If you will read
+the political speeches of the last twenty-two years,
+you will find prophecies to fit any possible future
+state of affairs in our country. No matter what
+happens, you will find that somebody predicted it.
+If the city of London should lose her trade, if the
+Parliament house should become the abode of moles
+and bats, if "the New Zealander should sit upon the
+"ruins of London Bridge," all these things would be
+simply the fulfillment of prophecy. The fall of every
+nation under the sun has been predicted by hundreds
+and thousands of people.
+
+The prophecies of the Old Testament can be made
+to fit anything that may happen, or that may not
+happen. They will apply to the death of a king, or
+to the destruction of a people,--to the loss of com-
+merce, or the discovery of a continent. Each pro-
+phecy is a jugglery of words, of figures, of symbols,
+so put together, so used, so interpreted, that they
+can mean anything, everything, or nothing.
+
+_Question_. Do you see anything "prophetic" in
+the fate of the Jewish people themselves? Do you
+think that God made the Jewish people wanderers, so
+that they might be perpetual witnesses to the truth
+of the Scriptures?
+
+286
+
+_Answer_. I cannot believe that an infinitely good
+God would make anybody a wanderer. Neither can
+I believe that he would keep millions of people with-
+out country and without home, and allow them to be
+persecuted for thousands of years, simply that they
+might be used as witnesses. Nothing could be more
+absurdly cruel than this.
+
+The Christians justify their treatment of the Jews
+on the ground that they are simply fulfilling prophecy.
+The Jews have suffered because of the horrid story
+that their ancestors crucified the Son of God. Chris-
+tianity, coming into power, looked with horror upon
+the Jews, who denied the truth of the gospel. Each
+Jew was regarded as a dangerous witness against
+Christianity. The early Christians saw how neces-
+sary it was that the people who lived in Jerusalem
+at the time of Christ should be convinced that
+he was God, and should testify to the miracles he
+wrought. Whenever a Jew denied it, the Christian
+was filled with malignity and hatred, and immediately
+excited the prejudice of other Christians against the
+man simply because he was a Jew. They forgot, in
+their general hatred, that Mary, the mother of Christ,
+was a Jewess; that Christ himself was of Jewish
+blood; and with an inconsistency of which, of all
+
+287
+
+religions, Christianity alone could have been guilty,
+the Jew became an object of especial hatred and
+aversion.
+
+When we remember that Christianity pretends to
+be a religion of love and kindness, of charity and for-
+giveness, must not every intelligent man be shocked
+by the persecution of the Jews? Even now, in learned
+and cultivated Germany, the Jew is treated as though
+he were a wild beast. The reputation of this great
+people has been stained by a persecution spring-
+ing only from ignorance and barbarian prejudice.
+So in Russia, the Christians are anxious to shed
+every drop of Jewish blood, and thousands are to-day
+fleeing from their homes to seek a refuge from Chris-
+tian hate. And Mr. Talmage believes that all these
+persecutions are kept up by the perpetual intervention
+of God, in order that the homeless wanderers of the
+seed of Abraham may testify to the truth of the Old
+and New Testaments. He thinks that every burning
+Jewish home sheds light upon the gospel,--that
+every gash in Jewish flesh cries out in favor of the
+Bible,--that every violated Jewish maiden shows the
+interest that God still takes in the preservation of
+his Holy Word.
+
+I am endeavoring to do away with religious
+
+288
+
+prejudice. I wish to substitute humanity for super-
+stition, the love of our fellow-men, for the fear of
+God. In the place of ignorant worship, let us put
+good deeds. We should be great enough and grand
+enough to know that the rights of the Jew are pre-
+cisely the same as our own. We cannot trample
+upon their rights, without endangering our own; and
+no man who will take liberty from another, is great
+enough to enjoy liberty himself.
+
+Day by day Christians are laying the foundation
+of future persecution. In every Sunday school little
+children are taught that Jews killed the God of this
+universe. Their little hearts are filled with hatred
+against the Jewish people. They are taught as a
+part of the creed to despise the descendants of the
+only people with whom God is ever said to have had
+any conversation whatever.
+
+When we take into consideration what the Jewish
+people have suffered, it is amazing that every one of
+them does not hate with all his heart and soul and
+strength the entire Christian world. But in spite of
+the persecutions they have endured, they are to-day,
+where they are permitted to enjoy reasonable liberty,
+the most prosperous people on the globe. The idea
+that their condition shows, or tends to show, that
+
+289
+
+upon them abides the wrath of Jehovah, cannot be
+substantiated by the facts.
+
+The Jews to-day control the commerce of the
+world. They control the money of the world. It is
+for them to say whether nations shall or shall not go
+to war. They are the people of whom nations borrow
+money. To their offices kings come with their hats
+in their hands. Emperors beg them to discount their
+notes. Is all this a consequence of the wrath of
+God?
+
+We find upon our streets no Jewish beggars. It is
+a rare sight to find one of these people standing as
+a criminal before a court. They do not fill our alms-
+houses, nor our penitentiaries, nor our jails. In-
+tellectually and morally they are the equal of any
+people. They have become illustrious in every de-
+partment of art and science. The old cry against
+them is at last perceived to be ignorant. Only a few
+years ago, Christians would rob a Jew, strip him of
+his possessions, steal his money, declare him an out-
+cast, and drive him forth. Then they would point
+to him as a fulfillment of prophecy.
+
+If you wish to see the difference between some
+Jews and some Christians, compare the addresses of
+Felix Adler with the sermons of Mr. Talmage.
+
+290
+
+I cannot convince myself that an infinitely good
+and wise God holds a Jewish babe in the cradle of
+to-day responsible for the crimes of Caiaphas the
+high priest. I hardly think that an infinitely good
+being would pursue this little babe through all its life
+simply to get revenge on those who died two thou-
+sand years ago. An infinite being ought certainly to
+know that the child is not to blame; and an infinite
+being who does not know this, is not entitled to the
+love or adoration of any honest man.
+
+There is a strange inconsistency in what Mr. Tal-
+mage says. For instance, he finds great fault with
+me because I do not agree with the religious ideas
+of my father; and he finds fault equally with the
+Jews who do. The Jews who were true to the re-
+ligion of their fathers, according to Mr. Talmage,
+have been made a by-word and a hissing and a re-
+proach among all nations, and only those Jews were
+fortunate and blest who abandoned the religion of
+their fathers. The real reason for this inconsistency
+is this: Mr. Talmage really thinks that a man can
+believe as he wishes. He imagines that evidence de-
+pends simply upon volition; consequently, he holds
+every one responsible for his belief. Being satisfied
+that he has the exact truth in this matter, he meas-
+
+291
+
+ures all other people by his standard, and if they
+fail by that measurement, he holds them personally
+responsible, and believes that his God does the same.
+If Mr. Talmage had been born in Turkey, he would
+in all probability have been a Mohammedan, and
+would now be denouncing some man who had denied
+the inspiration of the Koran, as the "champion blas-
+"phemer" of Constantinople. Certainly he would
+have been, had his parents been Mohammedans;
+because, according to his doctrine, he would have
+been utterly lacking in respect and love for his father
+and mother had he failed to perpetuate their errors.
+So, had he been born in Utah, of Mormon parents,
+he would now have been a defender of polygamy.
+He would not "run the ploughshare of contempt
+"through the graves of his parents," by taking the
+ground that polygamy is wrong.
+
+I presume that all of Mr. Talmage's forefathers
+were not Presbyterians. There must have been
+a time when one of his progenitors left the faith of
+his father, and joined the Presbyterian Church. Ac-
+cording to the reasoning of Mr. Talmage, that particular
+progenitor was an exceedingly bad man; but had it
+not been for the crime of that bad man, Mr. Talmage
+might not now have been on the road to heaven.
+
+292
+
+I hardly think that all the inventors, the thinkers,
+the philosophers, the discoverers, dishonored their
+parents. Fathers and mothers have been made
+immortal by such sons. And yet these sons demon-
+strated the errors of their parents. A good father
+wishes to be excelled by his children.
+
+
+
+
+SIXTH INTERVIEW.
+
+_It is a contradiction in terms and ideas to call
+anything a revelation that comes to us at second-
+hand, either verbally or in writing. Revelation is
+necessarily limited to the first communication--
+after this, it is only an account of something
+which that person says was a revelation made to
+him; and though he may find himself obliged to
+believe it, it cannot be incumbent on me to
+believe it in the same manner; for it was not a
+revelation made to me, and I have only his word
+for it that it was made to him.--Thomas Paine._
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the argu-
+ments presented by Mr. Talmage in favor of
+the inspiration of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that
+there are more copies of the Bible than of any
+other book, and that consequently it must be in-
+spired.
+
+It seems to me that this kind of reasoning proves
+entirely too much. If the Bible is the inspired word
+of God, it was certainly just as true when there was
+only one copy, as it is to-day; and the facts con-
+tained in it were just as true before they were
+
+296
+
+written, as afterwards. We all know that it is a fact
+in human nature, that a man can tell a falsehood so
+often that he finally believes it himself; but I never
+suspected, until now, that a mistake could be printed
+enough times to make it true.
+
+There may have been a time, and probably there
+was, when there were more copies of the Koran
+than of the Bible. When most Christians were ut-
+terly ignorant, thousands of Moors were educated;
+and it is well known that the arts and sciences
+flourished in Mohammedan countries in a far greater
+degree than in Christian. Now, at that time, it may
+be that there were more copies of the Koran than of
+the Bible. If some enterprising Mohammedan had
+only seen the force of such a fact, he might have
+established the inspiration of the Koran beyond
+a doubt; or, if it had been found by actual count that
+the Koran was a little behind, a few years of in-
+dustry spent in the multiplication of copies, might
+have furnished the evidence of its inspiration.
+
+Is it not simply amazing that a doctor of divinity,
+a Presbyterian clergyman, in this day and age, should
+seriously rely upon the number of copies of the Bible
+to substantiate the inspiration of that book? Is it
+possible to conceive of anything more fig-leaflessly
+
+297
+
+absurd? If there is anything at all in this argument,
+it is, that all books are true in proportion to the
+number of copies that exist. Of course, the same
+rule will work with newspapers; so that the news-
+paper having the largest circulation can consistently
+claim infallibility. Suppose that an exceedingly absurd
+statement should appear in _The New York Herald_,
+and some one should denounce it as utterly without
+any foundation in fact or probability; what would
+Mr. Talmage think if the editor of the Herald, as an
+evidence of the truth of the statement, should rely
+on the fact that his paper had the largest circulation
+of any in the city? One would think that the whole
+church had acted upon the theory that a falsehood re-
+peated often enough was as good as the truth.
+
+Another evidence brought forward by the reverend
+gentleman to prove the inspiration of the Scriptures,
+is the assertion that if Congress should undertake to
+pass a law to take the Bible from the people, thirty,
+millions would rise in defence of that book.
+
+This argument also seems to me to prove too much,
+and as a consequence, to prove nothing. If Con-
+gress should pass a law prohibiting the reading of
+Shakespeare, every American would rise in defence
+of his right to read the works of the greatest man
+
+298
+
+this world has known. Still, that would not even
+tend to show that Shakespeare was inspired. The
+fact is, the American people would not allow Con-
+gress to pass a law preventing them from reading
+any good book. Such action would not prove the
+book to be inspired; it would prove that the American
+people believe in liberty.
+
+There are millions of people in Turkey who would
+peril their lives in defence of the Koran. A fact like
+this does not prove the truth of the Koran; it simply
+proves what Mohammedans think of that book, and
+what they are willing to do for its preservation.
+
+It can not be too often repeated, that martyrdom
+does not prove the truth of the thing for which the
+martyr dies; it only proves the sincerity of the martyr
+and the cruelty of his murderers. No matter how
+many people regard the Bible as inspired,--that fact
+furnishes no evidence that it is inspired. Just as many
+people have regarded other books as inspired; just as
+many millions have been deluded about the inspiration
+of books ages and ages before Christianity was born.
+
+The simple belief of one man, or of millions of men,
+is no evidence to another. Evidence must be based,
+not upon the belief of other people, but upon facts.
+A believer may state the facts upon which his belief
+
+299
+
+is founded, and the person to whom he states them
+gives them the weight that according to the con-
+struction and constitution of his mind he must. But
+simple, bare belief is not testimony. We should build
+upon facts, not upon beliefs of others, nor upon the
+shifting sands of public opinion. So much for this
+argument.
+
+The next point made by the reverend gentleman
+is, that an infidel cannot be elected to any office in
+the United States, in any county, precinct, or ward.
+
+For the sake of the argument, let us admit that this
+is true. What does it prove? There was a time
+when no Protestant could have been elected to any
+office. What did that prove? There was a time
+when no Presbyterian could have been chosen to fill
+any public station. What did that prove? The
+same may be said of the members of each religious
+denomination. What does that prove?
+
+Mr. Talmage says that Christianity must be true,
+because an infidel cannot be elected to office. Now,
+suppose that enough infidels should happen to settle
+in one precinct to elect one of their own number to
+office; would that prove that Christianity was not
+true in that precinct? There was a time when no
+man could have been elected to any office, who in-
+
+300
+
+sisted on the rotundity of the earth; what did that
+prove? There was a time when no man who denied
+the existence of witches, wizards, spooks and devils,
+could hold any position of honor; what did that
+prove? There was a time when an abolitionist could
+not be elected to office in any State in this Union;
+what did that prove? There was a time when they
+were not allowed to express their honest thoughts;
+what does that prove? There was a time when a
+Quaker could not have been elected to any office;
+there was a time in the history of this country when
+but few of them were allowed to live; what does
+that prove? Is it necessary, in order to ascertain the
+truth of Christianity, to look over the election re-
+turns? Is "inspiration" a question to be settled by
+the ballot? I admit that it was once, in the first
+place, settled that way. I admit that books were
+voted in and voted out, and that the Bible was finally
+formed in accordance with a vote; but does Mr.
+Talmage insist that the question is not still open?
+Does he not know, that a fact cannot by any possi-
+bility be affected by opinion? We make laws for
+the whole people, by the whole people. We agree
+that a majority shall rule, but nobody ever pretended
+that a question of taste could be settled by an appeal
+
+301
+
+to majorities, or that a question of logic could be
+affected by numbers. In the world of thought, each
+man is an absolute monarch, each brain is a king-
+dom, that cannot be invaded even by the tyranny of
+majorities.
+
+No man can avoid the intellectual responsibility of
+deciding for himself.
+
+Suppose that the Christian religion had been put
+to vote in Jerusalem? Suppose that the doctrine of
+the "fall" had been settled in Athens, by an appeal
+to the people, would Mr. Talmage have been willing
+to abide by their decision? If he settles the inspira-
+tion of the Bible by a popular vote, he must settle the
+meaning of the Bible by the same means. There are
+more Methodists than Presbyterians--why does the
+gentleman remain a Presbyterian? There are more
+Buddhists than Christians--why does he vote against
+majorities? He will remember that Christianity was
+once settled by a popular vote--that the divinity of
+Christ was submitted to the people, and the people
+said: "Crucify him!"
+
+The next, and about the strongest, argument Mr.
+Talmage makes is, that I am an infidel because I was
+defeated for Governor of Illinois.
+
+When put in plain English, his statement is this:
+
+302
+
+that I was defeated because I was an infidel, and that
+I am an infidel because I was defeated. This, I be-
+lieve, is called reasoning in a circle. The truth is,
+that a good many people did object to me because I
+was an infidel, and the probability is, that if I had
+denied being an infidel, I might have obtained an
+office. The wonderful part is, that any Christian
+should deride me because I preferred honor to po-
+litical success. He who dishonors himself for the
+sake of being honored by others, will find that two
+mistakes have been made--one by himself, and the
+other, by the people.
+
+I presume that Mr.Talmage really thinks that I was
+extremely foolish to avow my real opinions. After
+all, men are apt to judge others somewhat by them-
+selves. According to him, I made the mistake of
+preserving my manhood and losing an office. Now,
+if I had in fact been an infidel, and had denied it, for
+the sake of position, then I admit that every Christian
+might have pointed at me the finger of contempt.
+But I was an infidel, and admitted it. Surely, I should
+not be held in contempt by Christians for having
+made the admission. I was not a believer in the
+Bible, and I said so. I was not a Christian, and I said
+so. I was not willing to receive the support of any
+
+303
+
+man under a false impression. I thought it better to
+be honestly beaten, than to dishonestly succeed.
+According to the ethics of Mr. Talmage I made a
+mistake, and this mistake is brought forward as
+another evidence of the inspiration of the Scriptures.
+If I had only been elected Governor of Illinois,--that
+is to say, if I had been a successful hypocrite, I might
+now be basking in the sunshine of this gentleman's
+respect. I preferred to tell the truth--to be an
+honest man,--and I have never regretted the course
+I pursued.
+
+There are many men now in office who, had they
+pursued a nobler course, would be private citizens.
+Nominally, they are Christians; actually, they are
+nothing; and this is the combination that generally
+insures political success.
+
+Mr. Talmage is exceedingly proud of the fact that
+Christians will not vote for infidels. In other words,
+he does not believe that in our Government the
+church has been absolutely divorced from the state.
+He believes that it is still the Christian's duty to
+make the religious test. Probably he wishes to get
+his God into the Constitution. My position is this:
+
+Religion is an individual matter--a something for
+each individual to settle for himself, and with which
+
+304
+
+no other human being has any concern, provided the
+religion of each human being allows liberty to every
+other. When called upon to vote for men to fill the
+offices of this country, I do not inquire as to the re-
+ligion of the candidates. It is none of my business.
+I ask the questions asked by Jefferson: "Is he
+"honest; is he capable?" It makes no difference to
+me, if he is willing that others should be free, what
+creed he may profess. The moment I inquire into his
+religious belief, I found a little inquisition of my own;
+I repeat, in a small way, the errors of the past, and
+reproduce, in so far as I am capable, the infamy of
+the ignorant orthodox years.
+
+Mr. Talmage will accept my thanks for his frankness.
+I now know what controls a Presbyterian when he
+casts his vote. He cares nothing for the capacity,
+nothing for the fitness, of the candidate to discharge
+the duties of the office to which he aspires; he
+simply asks: Is he a Presbyterian, is he a Protestant,
+does he believe our creed? and then, no matter how
+ignorant he may be, how utterly unfit, he receives the
+Presbyterian vote. According to Mr. Talmage, he
+would vote for a Catholic who, if he had the power,
+would destroy all liberty of conscience, rather than
+vote for an infidel who, had he the power, would
+
+305
+
+destroy all the religious tyranny of the world, and
+allow every human being to think for himself, and
+to worship God, or not, as and how he pleased.
+
+Mr. Talmage makes the serious mistake of placing
+the Bible above the laws and Constitution of his
+country. He places Jehovah above humanity. Such
+men are not entirely safe citizens of any republic.
+And yet, I am in favor of giving to such men all the
+liberty I ask for myself, trusting to education and the
+spirit of progress to overcome any injury they may
+do, or seek to do.
+
+When this country was founded, when the Con-
+stitution was adopted, the churches agreed to let the
+State alone. They agreed that all citizens should have
+equal civil rights. Nothing could be more dangerous
+to the existence of this Republic than to introduce
+religion into politics. The American theory is, that
+governments are founded, not by gods, but by men,
+and that the right to govern does not come from
+God, but "from the consent of the governed." Our
+fathers concluded that the people were sufficiently
+intelligent to take care of themselves--to make good
+laws and to execute them. Prior to that time, all
+authority was supposed to come from the clouds.
+Kings were set upon thrones by God, and it was the
+
+306
+
+business of the people simply to submit. In all really
+civilized countries, that doctrine has been abandoned.
+The source of political power is here, not in heaven.
+We are willing that those in heaven should control
+affairs there; we are willing that the angels should
+have a government to suit themselves; but while we
+live here, and while our interests are upon this earth,
+we propose to make and execute our own laws.
+
+If the doctrine of Mr. Talmage is the true doctrine,
+if no man should be voted for unless he is a Christian,
+then no man should vote unless he is a Christian. It
+will not do to say that sinners may vote, that an infidel
+may be the repository of political power, but must not
+be voted for. A decent Christian who is not willing
+that an infidel should be elected to an office, would
+not be willing to be elected to an office by infidel
+votes. If infidels are too bad to be voted for, they
+are certainly not good enough to vote, and no
+Christian should be willing to represent such an
+infamous constituency.
+
+If the political theory of Mr. Talmage is carried
+out, of course the question will arise in a little while,
+What is a Christian? It will then be necessary to
+write a creed to be subscribed by every person before
+he is fit to vote or to be voted for. This of course
+
+307
+
+must be done by the State, and must be settled,
+under our form of government, by a majority vote.
+Is Mr. Talmage willing that the question, What is
+Christianity? should be so settled? Will he pledge
+himself in advance to subscribe to such a creed? Of
+course he will not. He will insist that he has the
+right to read the Bible for himself, and that he must
+be bound by his own conscience. In this he would
+be right. If he has the right to read the Bible for
+himself, so have I. If he is to be bound by his con-
+science, so am I. If he honestly believes the Bible to
+be true, he must say so, in order to preserve his man-
+hood; and if I honestly believe it to be uninspired,--
+filled with mistakes,--I must say so, or lose my man-
+hood. How infamous I would be should I endeavor
+to deprive him of his vote, or of his right to be voted
+for, because he had been true to his conscience! And
+how infamous he is to try to deprive me of the right
+to vote, or to be voted for, because I am true to my
+conscience!
+
+When we were engaged in civil war, did Mr. Tal-
+mage object to any man's enlisting in the ranks who
+was not a Christian? Was he willing, at that time,
+that sinners should vote to keep our flag in heaven?
+Was he willing that the "unconverted" should cover
+
+308
+
+the fields of victory with their corpses, that this nation
+might not die? At the same time, Mr. Talmage
+knew that every "unconverted" soldier killed, went
+down to eternal fire. Does Mr. Talmage believe that
+it is the duty of a man to fight for a government in
+which he has no rights? Is the man who shoulders
+his musket in the defence of human freedom good
+enough to cast a ballot? There is in the heart of this
+priest the safne hatred of real liberty that drew the
+sword of persecution, that built dungeons, that forged
+chains and made instruments of torture.
+
+Nobody, with the exception of priests, would be
+willing to trust the liberties of this country in the
+hands of any church. In order to show the political
+estimation in which the clergy are held, in order to
+show the confidence the people at large have in the
+sincerity and wisdom of the clergy, it is sufficient to
+state, that no priest, no bishop, could by any possi-
+bility be elected President of the United States. No
+party could carry that load. A fear would fall upon
+the mind and heart of every honest man that this
+country was about to drift back to the Middle Ages,
+and that the old battles were to be refought. If the
+bishop running for President was of the Methodist
+Church, every other church would oppose him. If
+
+309
+
+he was a Catholic, the Protestants would as a body
+combine against him. Why? The churches have
+no confidence in each other. Why? Because they
+are acquainted with each other.
+
+As a matter of fact, the infidel has a thousand
+times more reason to vote against the Christian,
+than the Christian has to vote against the infidel.
+The Christian believes in a book superior to the
+Constitution--superior to all Constitutions and all
+laws. The infidel believes that the Constitution and
+laws are superior to any book. He is not controlled
+by any power beyond the seas or above the clouds.
+He does not receive his orders from Rome, or Sinai.
+He receives them from his fellow-citizens, legally and
+constitutionally expressed. The Christian believes in
+a power greater than man, to which, upon the peril
+of eternal pain, he must bow. His allegiance, to say
+the best of it, is divided. The Christian puts the for-
+tune of his own soul over and above the temporal
+welfare of the entire world; the infidel puts the good
+of mankind here and now, beyond and over all.
+
+There was a time in New England when only
+church members were allowed to vote, and it may be
+instructive to state the fact that during that time
+Quakers were hanged, women were stripped, tied to
+
+310
+
+carts, and whipped from town to town, and their
+babes sold into slavery, or exchanged for rum. Now
+in that same country, thousands and thousands of
+infidels vote, and yet the laws are nearer just, women
+are not whipped and children are not sold.
+
+If all the convicts in all the penitentiaries of the
+United States could be transported to some island in
+the sea, and there allowed to make a government for
+themselves, they would pass better laws than John
+Calvin did in Geneva. They would have clearer and
+better views of the rights of men, than unconvicted
+Christians used to have. I do not say that these
+convicts are better people, but I do say that, in my
+judgment, they would make better laws. They cer-
+tainly could not make worse.
+
+If these convicts were taken from the prisons of
+the United States, they would not dream of uniting
+church and state. They would have no religious
+test. They would allow every man to vote and to be
+voted for, no matter what his religious views might
+be. They would not dream of whipping Quakers, of
+burning Unitarians, of imprisoning or burning Uni-
+versalists or infidels. They would allow all the people
+to guess for themselves. Some of these convicts, of
+course, would believe in the old ideas, and would
+insist upon the suppression of free thought. Those
+coming from Delaware would probably repeat with
+great gusto the opinions of Justice Comegys, and
+insist that the whipping-post was the handmaid of
+Christianity.
+
+It would be hard to conceive of a much worse
+government than that founded by the Puritans.
+They took the Bible for the foundation of their
+political structure. They copied the laws given to
+Moses from Sinai, and the result was one of the
+worst governments that ever disgraced this world.
+They believed the Old Testament to be inspired.
+They believed that Jehovah made laws for all people
+and for all time. They had not learned the hypoc-
+risy that believes and avoids. They did not say:
+This law was once just, but is now unjust; it was
+once good, but now it is infamous; it was given by
+God once, but now it can only be obeyed by the
+devil. They had not reached the height of biblical
+exegesis on which we find the modern theologian
+perched, and who tells us that Jehovah has reformed.
+The Puritans were consistent. They did what people
+must do who honestly believe in the inspiration of
+the Old Testament. If God gave laws from Sinai
+what right have we to repeal them?
+
+312
+
+As people have gained confidence in each other,
+they have lost confidence in the sacred Scriptures.
+We know now that the Bible can not be used as the
+foundation of government. It is capable of too many
+meanings. Nobody can find out exactly what it
+upholds, what it permits, what it denounces, what it
+denies. These things depend upon what part you
+read. If it is all true, it upholds everything bad and
+denounces everything good, and it also denounces
+the bad and upholds the good. Then there are
+passages where the good is denounced and the bad
+commanded; so that any one can go to the Bible
+and find some text, some passage, to uphold anything
+he may desire. If he wishes to enslave his fellow-
+men, he will find hundreds of passages in his favor.
+If he wishes to be a polygamist, he can find his
+authority there. If he wishes to make war, to exter-
+minate his neighbors, there his warrant can be found.
+If, on the other hand, he is oppressed himself, and
+wishes to make war upon his king, he can find a
+battle-cry. And if the king wishes to put him down,
+he can find text for text on the other side. So, too,
+upon all questions of reform. The teetotaler goes
+there to get his verse, and the moderate drinker
+finds within the sacred lids his best excuse.
+
+313
+
+Most intelligent people are now convinced that the
+bible is not a guide; that in reading it you must
+exercise your reason; that you can neither safely
+reject nor accept all; that he who takes one passage
+for a staff, trips upon another; that while one text is
+a light, another blows it out; that it is such a ming-
+ling of rocks and quicksands, such a labyrinth of
+clews and snares--so few flowers among so many
+nettles and thorns, that it misleads rather than di-
+rects, and taken altogether, is a hindrance and not
+a help.
+
+Another important point made by Mr. Talmage is,
+that if the Bible is thrown away, we will have nothing
+left to swear witnesses on, and that consequently the
+administration of justice will become impossible.
+
+There was a time when the Bible did not exist, and
+if Mr. Talmage is correct, of course justice was im-
+possible then, and truth must have been a stranger
+to human lips. How can we depend upon the testi-
+mony of those who wrote the Bible, as there was no
+Bible in existence while they were writing, and con-
+sequently there was no way to take their testimony,
+and we have no account of their having been sworn
+on the Bible after they got it finished. It is extremely
+sad to think that all the nations of antiquity were left
+
+314
+
+entirely without the means of eliciting truth. No
+wonder that Justice was painted blindfolded.
+
+What perfect fetichism it is, to imagine that a man
+will tell the truth simply because he has kissed an
+old piece of sheepskin stained with the saliva of all
+classes. A farce of this kind adds nothing to the
+testimony of an honest man; it simply allows a rogue
+to give weight to his false testimony. This is really
+the only result that can be accomplished by kissing
+the Bible. A desperate villain, for the purpose of
+getting revenge, or making money, will gladly go
+through the ceremony, and ignorant juries and su-
+perstitious judges will be imposed upon. The whole
+system of oaths is false, and does harm instead of
+good. Let every man walk into court and tell his
+story, and let the truth of the story be judged by its
+reasonableness, taking into consideration the charac-
+ter of the witness, the interest he has, and the posi-
+tion he occupies in the controversy, and then let it
+be the business of the jury to ascertain the real truth
+--to throw away the unreasonable and the impossi-
+ble, and make up their verdict only upon what they
+believe to be reasonable and true. An honest man
+does not need the oath, and a rascal uses it simply
+to accomplish his purpose. If the history of courts
+
+315
+
+proved that every man, after kissing the Bible, told
+the truth, and that those who failed to kiss it some-
+times lied, I should be in favor of swearing all people
+on the Bible; but the experience of every lawyer is,
+that kissing the Bible is not always the preface of a
+true story. It is often the ceremonial embroidery
+of a falsehood.
+
+If there is an infinite God who attends to the
+affairs of men, it seems to me almost a sacrilege to
+publicly appeal to him in every petty trial. If one
+will go into any court, and notice the manner in
+which oaths are administered,--the utter lack of
+solemnity--the matter-of-course air with which the
+whole thing is done, he will be convinced that it is a
+form of no importance. Mr. Talmage would probably
+agree with the judge of whom the following story is
+told:
+
+A witness was being sworn. The judge noticed
+that he was not holding up his hand. He said to the
+clerk: "Let the witness hold up his right hand."
+"His right arm was shot off," replied the clerk. "Let
+"him hold up his left, then." "That was shot off, too,
+"your honor." "Well, then, let him raise one foot;
+"no man can be sworn in this court without holding
+"something up."
+
+
+My own opinion is, that if every copy of the Bible
+in the world were destroyed, there would be some
+way to ascertain the truth in judicial proceedings;
+and any other book would do just as well to swear
+witnesses upon, or a block in the shape of a book
+covered with some kind of calfskin could do equally
+well, or just the calfskin would do. Nothing is more
+laughable than the performance of this ceremony,
+and I have never seen in court one calf kissing the
+skin of another, that I did not feel humiliated that
+such things were done in the name of Justice.
+
+Mr. Talmage has still another argument in favor
+of the preservation of the Bible. He wants to
+know what book could take its place on the centre-
+table.
+
+I admit that there is much force in this. Suppose
+we all admitted the Bible to be an uninspired book,
+it could still be kept on the centre-table. It would
+be just as true then as it is now. Inspiration can not
+add anything to a fact; neither can inspiration make
+the immoral moral, the unjust just, or the cruel merci-
+ful. If it is a fact that God established human slavery,
+that does not prove slavery to be right; it simply
+shows that God was wrong. If I have the right to
+use my reason in determining whether the Bible is
+
+317
+
+inspired or not, and if in accordance with my reason
+I conclude that it is inspired, I have still the right to
+use my reason in determining whether the command-
+ments of God are good or bad. Now, suppose we
+take from the Bible every word upholding slavery,
+every passage in favor of polygamy, every verse
+commanding soldiers to kill women and children, it
+would be just as fit for the centre-table as now. Sup-
+pose every impure word was taken from it; suppose
+that the history of Tamar was left out, the biography
+of Lot, and all other barbarous accounts of a barbarous
+people, it would look just as well upon the centre-
+table as now.
+
+Suppose that we should become convinced that
+the writers of the New Testament were mistaken as
+to the eternity of punishment, or that all the passages
+now relied upon to prove the existence of perdition
+were shown to be interpolations, and were thereupon
+expunged, would not the book be dearer still to
+every human being with a heart? I would like to
+see every good passage in the Bible preserved. I
+would like to see, with all these passages from the
+Bible, the loftiest sentiments from all other books
+that have ever been uttered by men in all ages and
+of all races, bound in one volume, and to see that
+
+318
+
+volume, filled with the greatest, the purest and the
+best, become the household book.
+
+The average Bible, on the average centre-table, is
+about as much used as though it were a solid block.
+It is scarcely ever opened, and people who see its
+covers every day are unfamiliar with its every page.
+
+I admit that some things have happened some-
+what hard to explain, and tending to show that the
+Bible is no ordinary book. I heard a story, not long
+ago, bearing upon this very subject.
+
+A man was a member of the church, but after a
+time, having had bad luck in business affairs, became
+somewhat discouraged. Not feeling able to con-
+tribute his share to the support of the church, he
+ceased going to meeting, and finally became an
+average sinner. His bad luck pursued him until he
+found himself and his family without even a crust to
+eat. At this point, his wife told him that she be-
+lieved they were suffering from a visitation of God,
+and begged him to restore family worship, and see if
+God would not do something for them. Feeling that
+he could not possibly make matters worse, he took
+the Bible from its resting place on a shelf where
+it had quietly slumbered and collected the dust of
+many months, and gathered his family about him.
+
+319
+
+He opened the sacred volume, and to his utter as-
+tonishment, there, between the divine leaves, was a
+ten-dollar bill. He immediately dropped on his
+knees. His wife dropped on hers, and the children on
+theirs, and with streaming eyes they returned thanks
+to God. He rushed to the butcher's and bought
+some steak, to the baker's and bought some bread,
+to the grocer's and got some eggs and butter and tea,
+and joyfully hastened home. The supper was cooked,
+it was on the table, grace was said, and every face
+was radiant with joy. Just at that happy moment a
+knock was heard, the door was opened, and a police-
+man entered and arrested the father for passing
+counterfeit money.
+
+Mr. Talmage is also convinced that the Bible is
+inspired and should be preserved because there is no
+other book that a mother could give her son as he
+leaves the old home to make his way in the world.
+
+Thousands and thousands of mothers have pre-
+sented their sons with Bibles without knowing really
+what the book contains. They simply followed the
+custom, and the sons as a rule honored the Bible, not
+because they knew anything of it, but because it was
+a gift from mother. But surely, if all the passages
+upholding polygamy were out, the mother would give
+
+320
+
+the book to her son just as readily, and he would re-
+ceive it just as joyfully. If there were not one word
+in it tending to degrade the mother, the gift would cer-
+tainly be as appropriate. The fact that mothers have
+presented Bibles to their sons does not prove that the
+book is inspired. The most that can be proved by
+this fact is that the mothers believed it to be inspired.
+It does not even tend to show what the book is,
+neither does it tend to establish the truth of one
+miracle recorded upon its pages. We cannot believe
+that fire refused to burn, simply because the state-
+ment happens to be in a book presented to a son by
+his mother, and if all the mothers of the entire world
+should give Bibles to all their children, this would not
+prove that it was once right to murder mothers, or to
+enslave mothers, or to sell their babes.
+
+The inspiration of the Bible is not a question of
+natural affection. It can not be decided by the love
+a mother bears her son. It is a question of fact, to
+be substantiated like other facts. If the Turkish
+mother should give a copy of the Koran to her
+son, I would still have my doubts about the in-
+spiration of that book; and if some Turkish soldier
+saved his life by having in his pocket a copy of
+the Koran that accidentally stopped a bullet just
+
+321
+
+opposite his heart, I should still deny that Mohammed
+was a prophet of God.
+
+Nothing can be more childish than to ascribe
+mysterious powers to inanimate objects. To imagine
+that old rags made into pulp, manufactured into
+paper, covered with words, and bound with the skin
+of a calf or a sheep, can have any virtues when thus
+put together that did not belong to the articles out
+of which the book was constructed, is of course
+infinitely absurd.
+
+In the days of slavery, negroes used to buy dried
+roots of other negroes, and put these roots in their
+pockets, so that a whipping would not give them
+pain. Kings have bought diamonds to give them
+luck. Crosses and scapularies are still worn for the
+purpose of affecting the inevitable march of events.
+People still imagine that a verse in the Bible can step
+in between a cause and its effect; really believe that
+an amulet, a charm, the bone of some saint, a piece
+of a cross, a little image of the Virgin, a picture of a
+priest, will affect the weather, will delay frost, will
+prevent disease, will insure safety at sea, and in some
+cases prevent hanging. The banditti of Italy have
+great confidence in these things, and whenever they
+start upon an expedition of theft and plunder, they
+
+322
+
+take images and pictures of saints with them, such
+as have been blest by a priest or pope. They pray
+sincerely to the Virgin, to give them luck, and see not
+the slightest inconsistency in appealing to all the
+saints in the calendar to assist them in robbing honest
+people.
+
+Edmund About tells a story that illustrates the belief
+of the modern Italian. A young man was gambling.
+Fortune was against him. In the room was a little
+picture representing the Virgin and her child. Before
+this picture he crossed himself, and asked the assist-
+ance of the child. Again he put down his money
+and again lost. Returning to the picture, he told the
+child that he had lost all but one piece, that he was
+about to hazard that, and made a very urgent request
+that he would favor him with divine assistance. He
+put down the last piece. He lost. Going to the
+picture and shaking his fist at the child, he cried out:
+"Miserable bambino, I am glad they crucified you!"
+
+The confidence that one has in an image, in a relic,
+in a book, comes from the same source,--fetichism.
+To ascribe supernatural virtues to the skin of a snake,
+to a picture, or to a bound volume, is intellectually
+the same.
+
+Mr. Talmage has still another argument in favor
+
+323
+
+of the inspiration of the Scriptures. He takes the
+ground that the Bible must be inspired, because so
+many people believe it.
+
+Mr. Talmage should remember that a scientific
+fact does not depend upon the vote of numbers;--
+it depends simply upon demonstration; it depends
+upon intelligence and investigation, not upon an
+ignorant multitude; it appeals to the highest, in-
+stead of to the lowest. Nothing can be settled
+by popular prejudice.
+
+According to Mr. Talmage, there are about three
+hundred million Christians in the world. Is this true?
+In all countries claiming to be Christian--including
+all of civilized Europe, Russia in Asia, and every
+country on the Western hemisphere, we have nearly
+four hundred millions of people. Mr. Talmage claims
+that three hundred millions are Christians. I sup-
+pose he means by this, that if all should perish to-
+night, about three hundred millions would wake up
+in heaven--having lived and died good and consist-
+ent Christians.
+
+There are in Russia about eighty millions of people
+--how many Christians? I admit that they have re-
+cently given more evidence of orthodox Christianity
+than formerly. They have been murdering old men;
+
+324
+
+they have thrust daggers into the breasts of women;
+they have violated maidens--because they were Jews.
+Thousands and thousands are sent each year to the
+mines of Siberia, by the Christian government of
+Russia. Girls eighteen years of age, for having ex-
+pressed a word in favor of human liberty, are to-day
+working like beasts of burden, with chains upon
+their limbs and with the marks of whips upon
+their backs. Russia, of course, is considered by Mr.
+Talmage as a Christian country--a country utterly
+destitute of liberty--without freedom of the press,
+without freedom of speech, where every mouth is
+locked and every tongue a prisoner--a country filled
+with victims, soldiers, spies, thieves and executioners.
+What would Russia be, in the opinion of Mr. Tal-
+mage, but for Christianity? How could it be worse,
+when assassins are among the best people in it?
+The truth is, that the people in Russia, to-day, who
+are in favor of human liberty, are not Christians.
+The men willing to sacrifice their lives for the good
+of others, are not believers in the Christian religion.
+The men who wish to break chains are infidels;
+the men who make chains are Christians. Every
+good and sincere Catholic of the Greek Church
+is a bad citizen, an enemy of progress, a foe of
+
+325
+
+human liberty. Yet Mr. Talmage regards Russia
+as a Christian country.
+
+The sixteen millions of people in Spain are claimed
+as Christians. Spain, that for centuries was the as-
+sassin of human rights; Spain, that endeavored to
+spread Christianity by flame and fagot; Spain, the
+soil where the Inquisition flourished, where bigotry
+grew, and where cruelty was worship,--where
+murder was prayer. I admit that Spain is a Chris-
+tian nation. I admit that infidelity has gained no
+foothold beyond the Pyrenees. The Spaniards are
+orthodox. They believe in the inspiration of the
+Old and New Testaments. They have no doubts
+about miracles--no doubts about heaven, no doubts
+about hell. I admit that the priests, the highway-
+men, the bishops and thieves, are equally true be-
+lievers. The man who takes your purse on the
+highway, and the priest who forgives the robber,
+are alike orthodox.
+
+It gives me pleasure, however, to say that even in
+Spain there is a dawn. Some great men, some men
+of genius, are protesting against the tyranny of Cath-
+olicism. Some men have lost confidence in the
+cathedral, and are beginningto ask the State to erect
+the schoolhouse. They are beginning to suspect
+
+326
+
+that priests are for the most part impostors and
+plunderers.
+
+According to Mr. Talmage, the twenty-eight mil-
+lions in Italy are Christians. There the Christian
+Church was early established, and the popes are to-
+day the successors of St. Peter. For hundreds and
+hundreds of years, Italy was the beggar of the world,
+and to her, from every land, flowed streams of gold
+and silver. The country was covered with convents,
+and monasteries, and churches, and cathedrals filled
+with monks and nuns. Its roads were crowded with
+pilgrims, and its dust was on the feet of the world.
+What has Christianity done for Italy--Italy, its soil a
+blessing, its sky a smile--Italy, with memories great
+enough to kindle the fires of enthusiasm in any
+human breast?
+
+Had it not been for a few Freethinkers, for a few
+infidels, for such men as Garibaldi and Mazzini, the
+heaven of Italy would still have been without a star.
+
+I admit that Italy, with its popes and bandits, with
+its superstition and ignorance, with its sanctified
+beggars, is a Christian nation; but in a little while,--
+in a few days,--when according to the prophecy of
+Garibaldi priests, with spades in their hands, will
+dig ditches to drain the Pontine marshes; in a little
+
+327
+
+while, when the pope leaves the Vatican, and seeks
+the protection of a nation he has denounced,--asking
+alms of intended victims; when the nuns shall marry,
+and the monasteries shall become factories, and the
+whirl of wheels shall take the place of drowsy prayers
+--then, and not until then, will Italy be,--not a
+Christian nation, but great, prosperous, and free.
+
+In Italy, Giordano Bruno was burned. Some day,
+his monument will rise above the cross of Rome.
+
+We have in our day one example,--and so far as I
+know, history records no other,--of the resurrection
+of a nation. Italy has been called from the grave of
+superstition. She is "the first fruits of them that
+"slept."
+
+I admit with Mr. Talmage that Portugal is a Chris-
+tian country--that she engaged for hundreds of years
+in the slave trade, and that she justified the infamous
+traffic by passages in the Old Testament. I admit,
+also, that she persecuted the Jews in accordance
+with the same divine volume. I admit that all the
+crime, ignorance, destitution, and superstition in that
+country were produced by the Catholic Church. I
+also admit that Portugal would be better if it were
+Protestant.
+
+Every Catholic is in favor of education enough to
+
+328
+
+change a barbarian into a Catholic; every Protestant
+is in favor of education enough to change a Catholic
+into a Protestant; but Protestants and Catholics alike
+are opposed to education that will lead to any
+real philosophy and science. I admit that Portugal
+is what it is, on account of the preaching of the
+gospel. I admit that Portugal can point with pride
+to the triumphs of what she calls civilization within
+her borders, and truthfully ascribe the glory to the
+church. But in a litde while, when more railroads
+are built, when telegraphs connect her people with
+the civilized world, a spirit of doubt, of investigation,
+will manifest itself in Portugal.
+
+When the people stop counting beads, and go to
+the study of mathematics; when they think more of
+plows than of prayers for agricultural purposes; when
+they find that one fact gives more light to the mind
+than a thousand tapers, and that nothing can by any
+possibility be more useless than a priest,--then Por-
+tugal will begin to cease to be what is called a
+Christian nation.
+
+I admit that Austria, with her thirty-seven millions,
+is a Christian nation--including her Croats, Hungar-
+ians, Servians, and Gypsies. Austria was one of the
+assassins of Poland. When we remember that John
+
+329
+
+Sobieski drove the Mohammedans from the gates of
+Vienna, and rescued from the hand of the "infidel"
+the beleagured city, the propriety of calling Austria a
+Christian nation becomes still more apparent. If one
+wishes to know exactly how "Christian" Austria is,
+let him read the history of Hungary, let him read
+the speeches of Kossuth. There is one good thing
+about Austria: slowly but surely she is undermining
+the church by education. Education is the enemy
+of superstition. Universal education does away with
+the classes born of the tyranny of ecclesiasticism--
+classes founded upon cunning, greed, and brute
+strength. Education also tends to do away with
+intellectual cowardice. The educated man is his
+own priest, his own pope, his own church.
+
+When cunning collects tolls from fear, the church
+prospers.
+
+Germany is another Christian nation. Bismarck is
+celebrated for his Christian virtues.
+
+Only a little while ago, Bismarck, when a bill was
+under consideration for ameliorating the condition
+of the Jews, stated publicly that Germany was a
+Christian nation, that her business was to extend
+and protect the religion of Jesus Christ, and that
+being a Christian nation, no laws should be passed
+
+330
+
+ameliorating the condition of the Jews. Certainly a
+remark like this could not have been made in any
+other than a Christian nation. There is no freedom
+of the press, there is no freedom of speech, in Ger-
+many. The Chancellor has gone so far as to declare
+that the king is not responsible to the people. Ger-
+many must be a Christian nation. The king gets his
+right to govern, not from his subjects, but from God.
+He relies upon the New Testament. He is satisfied
+that "the powers that be in Germany are ordained
+"of God." He is satisfied that treason against the
+German throne is treason against Jehovah. There
+are millions of Freethinkers in Germany. They are
+not in the majority, otherwise there would be more
+liberty in that country. Germany is not an infidel
+nation, or speech would be free, and every man
+would be allowed to express his honest thoughts.
+
+Wherever I see Liberty in chains, wherever the
+expression of opinion is a crime, I know that that
+country is not infidel; I know that the people are not
+ruled by reason. I also know that the greatest men
+of Germany--her Freethinkers, her scientists, her
+writers, her philosophers, are, for the most part, in-
+fidel. Yet Germany is called a Christian nation, and
+ought to be so called until her citizens are free.
+
+331
+
+France is also claimed as a Christian country. This
+is not entirely true. France once was thoroughly
+Catholic, completely Christian. At the time of the
+massacre of Saint Bartholomew, the French were
+Christians. Christian France made exiles of the
+Huguenots. Christian France for years and years
+was the property of the Jesuits. Christian France
+was ignorant, cruel, orthodox and infamous. When
+France was Christian, witnesses were cross-examined
+with instruments of torture.
+
+Now France is not entirely under Catholic control,
+and yet she is by far the most prosperous nation in
+Europe. I saw, only the other day, a letter from a
+Protestant bishop, in which he states that there are
+only about a million Protestants in France, and only
+four or five millions of Catholics, and admits, in a
+very melancholy way, that thirty-four or thirty-five
+millions are Freethinkers. The bishop is probably
+mistaken in his figures, but France is the best housed,
+the best fed, the best clad country in Europe.
+
+Only a little while ago, France was overrun, trampled
+into the very earth, by the victorious hosts of Ger-
+many, and France purchased her peace with the
+savings of centuries. And yet France is now rich and
+prosperous and free, and Germany poor, discontented
+
+332
+
+and enslaved. Hundreds and thousands of Germans,
+unable to find liberty at home, are coming to the
+United States.
+
+I admit that England is a Christian country. Any
+doubts upon this point can be dispelled by reading
+her history--her career in India, what she has done
+in China, her treatment of Ireland, of the American
+Colonies, her attitude during our Civil war; all these
+things show conclusively that England is a Christian
+nation.
+
+Religion has filled Great Britain with war. The
+history of the Catholics, of the Episcopalians, of
+Cromwell--all the burnings, the maimings, the brand-
+ings, the imprisonments, the confiscations, the civil
+wars, the bigotry, the crime--show conclusively that
+Great Britain has enjoyed to the full the blessings of
+"our most holy religion."
+
+Of course, Mr. Talmage claims the United States
+as a Christian country. The truth is, our country is
+not as Christian as it once was. When heretics were
+hanged in New England, when the laws of Virginia
+and Maryland provided that the tongue of any man
+who denied the doctrine of the Trinity should be
+bored with hot iron,, and that for the second offence
+he should suffer death, I admit that this country was
+
+333
+
+Christian. When we engaged in the slave trade,
+when our flag protected piracy and murder in every
+sea, there is not the slightest doubt that the United
+States was a Christian country. When we believed
+in slavery, and when we deliberately stole the labor
+of four millions of people; when we sold women
+and babes, and when the people of the North
+enacted a law by virtue of which every Northern
+man was bound to turn hound and pursue a human
+being who was endeavoring to regain his liberty, I
+admit that the United States was a Christian nation.
+I admit that all these things were upheld by the Bible
+--that the slave trader was justified by the Old Testa-
+ment, that the bloodhound was a kind of missionary
+in disguise, that the auction block was an altar, the
+slave pen a kind of church, and that the whipping-
+post was considered almost as sacred as the cross.
+At that time, our country was a Christian nation.
+
+I heard Frederick Douglass say that he lectured
+against slavery for twenty years before the doors
+of a single church were opened to him. In New
+England, hundreds of ministers were driven from
+their pulpits because they preached against the
+crime of human slavery. At that time, this country
+was a Christian nation.
+
+334
+
+Only a few years ago, any man speaking in favor
+of the rights of man, endeavoring to break a chain
+from a human limb, was in danger of being mobbed
+by the Christians of this country. I admit that Dela-
+ware is still a Christian State. I heard a story about
+that State the other day.
+
+About fifty years ago, an old Revolutionary soldier
+applied for a pension. He was asked his age, and he
+replied that he was fifty years old. He was told that
+if that was his age, he could not have been in the
+Revolutionary War, and consequently was not en-
+titled to any pension. He insisted, however, that he
+was only fifty years old. Again they told him that
+there must be some mistake. He was so wrinkled,
+so bowed, had so many marks of age, that he must
+certainly be more than fifty years old. "Well," said
+the old man, "if I must explain, I will: I lived forty
+"years in Delaware; but I never counted that time,
+"and I hope God won't."
+
+The fact is, we have grown less and less Christian
+every year from 1620 until now, and the fact is that
+we have grown more and more civilized, more and
+more charitable, nearer and nearer just.
+
+Mr. Talmage speaks as though all the people in
+what he calls the civilized world were Christians. Ad-
+
+335
+
+mitting this to be true, I find that in these countries
+millions of men are educated, trained and drilled to
+kill their fellow Christians. I find Europe covered
+with forts to protect Christians from Christians, and
+the seas filled with men-of-war for the purpose of
+ravaging the coasts and destroying the cities of Chris-
+tian nations. These countries are filled with prisons,
+with workhouses, with jails and with toiling, ignorant
+and suffering millions. I find that Christians have
+invented most of the instruments of death, that
+Christians are the greatest soldiers, fighters, de-
+stroyers. I find that every Christian country is taxed
+to its utmost to support these soldiers; that every
+Christian nation is now groaning beneath the grievous
+burden of monstrous debt, and that nearly all these
+debts were contracted in waging war. These bonds,
+these millions, these almost incalculable amounts,
+were given to pay for shot and shell, for rifle and
+torpedo, for men-of-war, for forts and arsenals, and
+all the devilish enginery of death. I find that each
+of these nations prays to God to assist it as against
+all others; and when one nation has overrun, ravaged
+and pillaged another, it immediately returns thanks
+to the Almighty, and the ravaged and pillaged kneel
+and thank God that it is no worse.
+
+336
+
+Mr. Talmage is welcome to all the evidence he can
+find in the history of what he is pleased to call the
+civilized nations of the world, tending to show the
+inspiration of the Bible.
+
+And right here it may be well enough to say again,
+that the question of inspiration can not be settled by
+the votes of the superstitious millions. It can not be
+affected by numbers. It must be decided by each
+human being for himself. If every man in this world,
+with one exception, believed the Bible to be the in-
+spired word of God, the man who was the exception
+could not lose his right to think, to investigate, and to
+judge for himself.
+
+_Question_. You do not think, then, that any of the
+arguments brought forward by Mr. Talmage for the
+purpose of establishing the inspiration of the Bible,
+are of any weight whatever?
+
+_Answer_. I do not. I do not see how it is possible
+to make poorer, weaker or better arguments than he
+has made.
+
+Of course, there can be no "evidence" of the in-
+spiration of the Scriptures. What is "inspiration"?
+Did God use the prophets simply as instruments?
+Did he put his thoughts in their minds, and use their
+
+337
+
+hands to make a record? Probably few Christians
+will agree as to what they mean by "inspiration."
+The general idea is, that the minds of the writers of
+the books of the Bible were controlled by the divine
+will in such a way that they expressed, independently
+of their own opinions, the thought of God. I believe it
+is admitted that God did not choose the exact words,
+and is not responsible for the punctuation or syntax.
+It is hard to give any reason for claiming more for
+the Bible than is claimed by those who wrote it.
+There is no claim of "inspiration" made by the writer
+of First and Second Kings. Not one word about the
+author having been "inspired" is found in the book
+of Job, or in Ruth, or in Chronicles, or in the Psalms,
+or Ecclesiastes, or in Solomon's Song, and nothing is
+said about the author of the book of Esther having
+been "inspired." Christians now say that Matthew,
+Mark, Luke and John were "inspired" to write the
+four gospels, and yet neither Mark, nor Luke, nor
+John, nor Matthew claims to have been "inspired."
+If they were "inspired," certainly they should have
+stated that fact. The very first thing stated in each
+of the gospels should have been a declaration by the
+writer that he had been "inspired," and that he was
+about to write the book under the guidance of God,
+
+338
+
+and at the conclusion of each gospel there should
+have been a solemn statement that the writer had
+put down nothing of himself, but had in all things
+followed the direction and guidance of the divine
+will. The church now endeavors to establish the
+inspiration of the Bible by force, by social ostracism,
+and by attacking the reputation of every man who
+denies or doubts. In all Christian countries, they
+begin with the child in the cradle. Each infant is
+told by its mother, by its father, or by some of its
+relatives, that "the Bible is an inspired book." This
+pretended fact, by repetition "in season and out of
+"season," is finally burned and branded into the
+brain to such a degree that the child of average
+intelligence never outgrows the conviction that the
+Bible is, in some peculiar sense, an "inspired" book.
+The question has to be settled for each generation.
+The evidence is not sufficient, and the foundation of
+Christianity is perpetually insecure. Beneath this great
+religious fabric there is no rock. For eighteen centu-
+ries, hundreds and thousands and millions of people
+have been endeavoring to establish the fact that the
+Scriptures are inspired, and since the dawn of science,
+since the first star appeared in the night of the
+Middle Ages, until this moment, the number of
+
+339
+
+people who have doubted the fact of inspiration
+has steadily increased. These doubts have not been
+born of ignorance, they have not been suggested by
+the unthinking. They have forced themselves upon
+the thoughtful, upon the educated, and now the ver-
+dict of the intellectual world is, that the Bible is not
+inspired. Notwithstanding the fact that the church
+has taken advantage of infancy, has endeavored to
+control education, has filled all primers and spelling-
+books and readers and text books with superstition--
+feeding all minds with the miraculous and super-
+natural, the growth toward a belief in the natural
+and toward the rejection of the miraculous has been
+steady and sturdy since the sixteenth century. There
+has been, too, a moral growth, until many passages
+in the Bible have become barbarous, inhuman and
+infamous. The Bible has remained the same, while
+the world has changed. In the light of physical and
+moral discovery, "the inspired volume" seems in
+many respects absurd. If the same progress is made
+in the next, as in the last, century, it is very easy to
+predict the place that will then be occupied by the
+Bible. By comparing long periods of time, it is easy
+to measure the advance of the human race. Com-
+pare the average sermon of to-day with the average
+
+340
+
+sermon of one hundred years ago. Compare what
+ministers teach to-day with the creeds they profess
+to believe, and you will see the immense distance
+that even the church has traveled in the last century.
+
+The Christians tell us that scientific men have
+made mistakes, and that there is very little certainty
+in the domain of human knowledge. This I admit.
+The man who thought the world was flat, and who
+had a way of accounting for the movement of the
+heavenly bodies, had what he was pleased to call a
+philosophy. He was, in his way, a geologist and an
+astronomer. We admit that he was mistaken; but
+if we claimed that the first geologist and the first
+astronomer were inspired, it would not do for us to
+admit that any advance had been made, or that any
+errors of theirs had been corrected. We do not
+claim that the first scientists were inspired. We do
+not claim that the last are inspired. We admit that
+all scientific men are fallible. We admit that they do
+not know everything. We insist that they know but
+little, and that even in that little which they are sup-
+posed to know, there is the possibility of error. The
+first geologist said: "The earth is flat." Suppose
+that the geologists of to-day should insist that that
+man was inspired, and then endeavor to show that
+
+341
+
+the word "flat," in the "Hebrew," did not mean
+quite flat, but just a little rounded; what would we
+think of their honesty? The first astronomer in-
+sisted that the sun and moon and stars revolved
+around this earth--that this little earth was the centre
+of the entire system. Suppose that the astronomers
+of to-day should insist that that astronomer was in-
+spired, and should try to explain, and say that he
+simply used the language of the common people, and
+when he stated that the sun and moon and stars re-
+volved around the earth, he merely meant that they
+"apparently revolved," and that the earth, in fact,
+turned over, would we consider them honest men?
+You might as well say that the first painter was in-
+spired, or that the first sculptor had the assistance of
+God, as to say that the first writer, or the first book-
+maker, was divinely inspired. It is more probable
+that the modern geologist is inspired than that the an-
+cient one was, because the modern geologist is nearer
+right. It is more probable that William Lloyd Gar-
+rison was inspired upon the question of slavery than
+that Moses was. It is more probable that the author
+of the Declaration of Independence spoke by divine
+authority than that the author of the Pentateuch did.
+In other words, if there can be any evidence of
+
+342
+
+"inspiration," it must lie in the fact of doing or
+saying the best possible thing that could have been
+done or said at that time or upon that subject.
+
+To make myself clear: The only possible evidence
+of "inspiration" would be perfection--a perfection ex-
+celling anything that man unaided had ever attained.
+An "inspired" book should excel all other books; an
+inspired statue should be the best in this world; an in-
+spired painting should be beyond all others. If the Bible
+has been improved in any particular, it was not, in that
+particular, ''inspired." If slavery is wrong, the Bible is
+not inspired. If polygamy is vile and loathsome, the
+Bible is not inspired. If wars of extermination are cruel
+and heartless, the Bible is not "inspired." If there is
+within that book a contradiction of any natural fact; if
+there is one ignorant falsehood, if there is one mistake,
+then it is not "inspired." I do not mean mistakes that
+have grown out of translations; but if there was in
+the original manuscript one mistake, then it is not
+"inspired." I do not demand a miracle; I do not
+demand a knowledge of the future; I simply demand
+an absolute knowledge of the past. I demand an ab-
+solute knowledge of the then present; I demand a
+knowledge of the constitution of the human mind--
+of the facts in nature, and that is all I demand.
+
+343
+
+_Question_. If I understand you, you think that all
+political power should come from the people; do you
+not believe in any "special providence," and do you
+take the ground that God does not interest himself
+in the affairs of nations and individuals?
+
+_Answer_. The Christian idea is that God made the
+world, and made certain laws for the government of
+matter and mind, and that he never interferes except
+upon special occasions, when the ordinary laws fail to
+work out the desired end. Their notion is, that the
+Lord now and then stops the horses simply to show
+that he is driving. It seems to me that if an infinitely
+wise being made the world, he must have made it
+the best possible; and that if he made laws for the
+government of matter and mind, he must have made
+the best possible laws. If this is true, not one of
+these laws can be violated without producing a posi-
+tive injury. It does not seem probable that infinite
+wisdom would violate a law that infinite wisdom had
+made.
+
+Most ministers insist that God now and then in-
+terferes in the affairs of this world; that he has not
+interfered as much lately as he did formerly. When
+the world was comparatively new, it required alto-
+gether more tinkering and fixing than at present.
+
+344
+
+Things are at last in a reasonably good condition,
+and consequently a great amount of interference is
+not necessary. In old times it was found necessary fre-
+quently to raise the dead, to change the nature of fire
+and water, to punish people with plagues and famine,
+to destroy cities by storms of fire and brimstone, to
+change women into salt, to cast hailstones upon
+heathen, to interfere with the movements of our
+planetary system, to stop the earth not only, but
+sometimes to make it turn the other way, to arrest
+the moon, and to make water stand up like a wall.
+Now and then, rivers were divided by striking them
+with a coat, and people were taken to heaven in
+chariots of fire. These miracles, in addition to curing
+the sick, the halt, the deaf and blind, were in former
+times found necessary, but since the "apostolic age,"
+nothing of the kind has been resorted to except in
+Catholic countries. Since the death of the last
+apostle, God has appeared only to members of the
+Catholic Church, and all modern miracles have been
+performed for the benefit of Catholicism. There is
+no authentic account of the Virgin Mary having ever
+appeared to a Protestant. The bones of Protestant
+saints have never cured a solitary disease. Protest-
+ants now say that the testimony of the Catholics can
+
+345
+
+not be relied upon, and yet, the authenticity of every
+book in the New Testament was established by Cath-
+olic testimony. Some few miracles were performed
+in Scotland, and in fact in England and the United
+States, but they were so small that they are hardly
+worth mentioning. Now and then, a man was struck
+dead for taking the name of the Lord in vain. Now
+and then, people were drowned who were found in
+boats on Sunday. Whenever anybody was about to
+commit murder, God has not interfered--the reason
+being that he gave man free-will, and expects to hold
+him accountable in another world, and there is no
+exception to this free-will doctrine, but in cases
+where men swear or violate the Sabbath. They are
+allowed to commit all other crimes without any in-
+terference on the part of the Lord.
+
+My own opinion is, that the clergy found it neces-
+sary to preserve the Sabbath for their own uses, and
+for that reason endeavored to impress the people
+with the enormity of its violation, and for that purpose
+gave instances of people being drowned and suddenly
+struck dead for working or amusing themselves on that
+day. The clergy have objected to any other places of
+amusement except their own, being opened on that
+day. They wished to compel people either to go to
+
+346
+
+church or stay at home. They have also known
+that profanity tended to do away with the feelings
+of awe they wished to cultivate, and for that reason
+they have insisted that swearing was one of the most
+terrible of crimes, exciting above all others the wrath
+of God.
+
+There was a time when people fell dead for having
+spoken disrespectfully to a priest. The priest at that
+time pretended to be the visible representative of
+God, and as such, entitled to a degree of reverence
+amounting almost to worship. Several cases are
+given in the ecclesiastical history of Scotland where
+men were deprived of speech for having spoken
+rudely to a parson.
+
+These stories were calculated to increase the im-
+portance of the clergy and to convince people that
+they were under the special care of the Deity. The
+story about the bears devouring the little children
+was told in the first place, and has been repeated
+since, simply to protect ministers from the laughter
+of children. There ought to be carved on each side
+of every pulpit a bear with fragments of children in
+its mouth, as this animal has done so much to protect
+the dignity of the clergy.
+
+Besides the protection of ministers, the drowning
+
+347
+
+of breakers of the Sabbath, and striking a few people
+dead for using profane language, I think there is no
+evidence of any providential interference in the affairs
+of this world in what may be called modern times.
+Ministers have endeavored to show that great calam-
+ities have been brought upon nations and cities as a
+punishment for the wickedness of the people. They
+have insisted that some countries have been visited
+with earthquakes because the people had failed to
+discharge their religious duties; but as earthquakes
+happened in uninhabited countries, and often at sea,
+where no one is hurt, most people have concluded
+that they are not sent as punishments. They have
+insisted that cities have been burned as a punish-
+ment, and to show the indignation of the Lord, but
+at the same time they have admitted that if the
+streets had been wider, the fire departments better
+organized, and wooden buildings fewer, the design
+of the Lord would have been frustrated.
+
+After reading the history of the world, it is some-
+what difficult to find which side the Lord is really on.
+He has allowed Catholics to overwhelm and de-
+stroy Protestants, and then he has allowed Protestants
+to overwhelm and destroy Catholics. He has allowed
+Christianity to triumph over Paganism, and he allowed
+
+348
+
+Mohammedans to drive back the hosts of the cross
+from the sepulchre of his son. It is curious that this
+God would allow the slave trade to go on, and yet
+punish the violators of the Sabbath. It is simply
+wonderful that he would allow kings to wage cruel
+and remorseless war, to sacrifice millions upon the
+altar of heartless ambition, and at the same time
+strike a man dead for taking his name in vain. It is
+wonderful that he allowed slavery to exist for centu-
+ries in the United States; that he allows polygamy
+now in Utah; that he cares nothing for liberty in
+Russia, nothing for free speech in Germany, nothing
+for the sorrows of the overworked, underpaid millions
+of the world; that he cares nothing for the innocent
+languishing in prisons, nothing for the patriots con-
+demned to death, nothing for the heart-broken
+widows and orphans, nothing for the starving, and
+yet has ample time to note a sparrow's fall. If he
+would only strike dead the would-be murderers; if
+he would only palsy the hands of husbands' uplifted
+to strike their wives; if he would render speechless
+the cursers of children, he could afford to overlook
+the swearers and breakers of his Sabbath.
+
+For one, I am not satisfied with the government
+of this world, and I am going to do what little I can
+
+349
+
+to make it better. I want more thought and less
+fear, more manhood and less superstition, less prayer
+and more help, more education, more reason, more
+intellectual hospitality, and above all, and over all,
+more liberty and kindness.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that God, if there be one,
+when he saves or damns a man, will take into con-
+sideration all the circumstances of the man's life?
+
+_Answer_. Suppose that two orphan boys, James
+and John, are given homes. James is taken into a
+Christian family and John into an infidel. James
+becomes a Christian, and dies in the faith. John be-
+comes an infidel, and dies without faith in Christ.
+According to the Christian religion, as commonly
+preached, James will go to heaven, and John to hell.
+
+Now, suppose that God knew that if James had
+been raised by the infidel family, he would have died
+an infidel, and that if John had been raised by the
+Christian family, he would have died a Christian.
+What then? Recollect that the boys did not choose
+the families in which they were placed.
+
+Suppose that a child, cast away upon an island in
+which he found plenty of food, grew to manhood;
+and suppose that after he had reached mature years,
+
+350
+
+the island was visited by a missionary who taught a
+false religion; and suppose that this islander was con-
+vinced that he ought to worship a wooden idol; and
+suppose, further, that the worship consisted in sacri-
+ficing animals; and suppose the islander, actuated
+only by what he conceived to be his duty and by
+thankfulness, sacrificed a toad every night and every
+morning upon the altar of his wooden god; that
+when the sky looked black and threatening he sacri-
+ficed two toads; that when feeling unwell he sacrificed
+three; and suppose that in all this he was honest, that
+he really believed that the shedding of toad-blood
+would soften the heart of his god toward him? And
+suppose that after he had become fully-convinced
+of the truth of his religion, a missionary of the
+"true religion" should visit the island, and tell the
+history of the Jews--unfold the whole scheme of
+salvation? And suppose that the islander should
+honestly reject the true religion? Suppose he should
+say that he had "internal evidence" not only, but
+that many miracles had been performed by his god,
+in his behalf; that often when the sky was black
+with storm, he had sacrificed a toad, and in a few
+moments the sun was again visible, the heavens blue,
+and without a cloud; that on several occasions, having
+
+351
+
+forgotten at evening to sacrifice his toad, he found
+himself unable to sleep--that his conscience smote
+him, he had risen, made the sacrifice, returned to his
+bed, and in a few moments sunk into a serene and
+happy slumber? And suppose, further, that the man
+honestly believed that the efficacy of the sacrifice
+depended largely on the size of the toad? Now
+suppose that in this belief the man had died,--what
+then?
+
+It must be remembered that God knew when the
+missionary of the false religion went to the island;
+and knew that the islander would be convinced of the
+truth of the false religion; and he also knew that the
+missionary of the true religion could not, by any
+possibility, convince the islander of the error of his
+way; what then?
+
+If God is infinite, we cannot speak of him as
+making efforts, as being tired. We cannot con-
+sistently say that one thing is easy to him, and
+another thing is hard, providing both are possible.
+This being so, why did not God reveal himself to
+every human being? Instead of having an inspired
+book, why did he not make inspired folks? Instead
+of having his commandments put on tables of stone,
+why did he not write them on each human brain?
+
+352
+
+Why was not the mind of each man so made that
+every religious truth necessary to his salvation was
+an axiom?
+
+Do we not know absolutely that man is greatly
+influenced by his surroundings? If Mr. Talmage
+had been born in Turkey, is it not probable that
+he would now be a whirling Dervish? If he had
+first seen the light in Central Africa, he might now
+have been prostrate before some enormous serpent;
+if in India, he might have been a Brahmin, running a
+prayer-machine; if in Spain, he would probably have
+been a priest, with his beads and holy water. Had
+he been born among the North American Indians,
+he would speak of the "Great Spirit," and solemnly
+smoke the the pipe of peace.
+
+Mr. Talmage teaches that it is the duty of children
+to perpetuate the errors of their parents; conse-
+quently, the religion of his parents determined his
+theology. It is with him not a question of reason,
+but of parents; not a question of argument, but of
+filial affection. He does not wish to be a philoso-
+pher, but an obedient son. Suppose his father had
+been a Catholic, and his mother a Protestant,--what
+then? Would he show contempt for his mother by
+following the path of his father; or would he show
+
+353
+
+disrespect for his father, by accepting the religion of
+his mother; or would he have become a Protestant
+with Catholic proclivities, or a Catholic with Protest-
+ant leanings? Suppose his parents had both been
+infidels--what then?
+
+Is it not better for each one to decide honestly for
+himself? Admitting that your parents were good and
+kind; admitting that they were honest in their views,
+why not have the courage to say, that in your opinion,
+father and mother were both mistaken? No one can
+honor his parents by being a hypocrite, or an intellectu-
+al coward. Whoever is absolutely true to himself, is
+true to his parents, and true to the whole world. Who-
+ever is untrue to himself, is false to all mankind. Re-
+ligion must be an individual matter. If there is a God,
+and if there is a day of judgment, the church that a man
+belongs to will not be tried, but the man will be tried.
+
+It is a fact that the religion of most people was made
+for them by others; that they have accepted certain
+dogmas, not because they have examined them, but
+because they were told that they were true. Most of
+the people in the United States, had they been born in
+Turkey, would now be Mohammedans, and most of
+the Turks, had they been born in Spain, would now
+be Catholics.
+
+354
+
+It is almost, if not quite, impossible for a man to
+rise entirely above the ideas, views, doctrines and re-
+ligions of his tribe or country. No one expects to
+find philosophers in Central Africa, or scientists
+among the Fejees. No one expects to find philoso-
+phers or scientists in any country where the church
+has absolute control.
+
+If there is an infinitely good and wise God, of
+course he will take into consideration the surround-
+ings of every human being. He understands the
+philosophy of environment, and of heredity. He
+knows exactly the influence of the mother, of all
+associates, of all associations. He will also take into
+consideration the amount, quality and form of each
+brain, and whether the brain was healthy or diseased.
+He will take into consideration the strength of the
+passions, the weakness of the judgment. He will
+know exactly the force of all temptation--what was
+resisted. He will take an account of every effort
+made in the right direction, and will understand
+all the winds and waves and quicksands and shores
+and shallows in, upon and around the sea of every
+life.
+
+My own opinion is, that if such a being exists, and
+all these things are taken into consideration, we will
+
+355
+
+be absolutely amazed to see how small the difference
+is between the "good" and the "bad." Certainly
+there is no such difference as would justify a being
+of infinite wisdom and benevolence in rewarding one
+with eternal joy and punishing the other with eternal
+pain.
+
+_Question_. What are the principal reasons that
+have satisfied you that the Bible is not an inspired
+book?
+
+_Answer_. The great evils that have afflicted this
+world are:
+
+_First_. Human slavery--where men have bought
+and sold their fellow-men--sold babes from mothers,
+and have practiced) every conceivable cruelty upon
+the helpless.
+
+_Second_. Polygamy--an institution that destroys
+the home, that treats woman as a simple chattel, that
+does away with the sanctity of marriage, and with all
+that is sacred in love.
+
+_Third_. Wars of conquest and extermination--
+by which nations have been made the food of the
+sword.
+
+_Fourth_. The idea entertained by each nation that
+all other nations are destitute of rights--in other
+
+356
+
+words, patriotism founded upon egotism, prejudice,
+and love of plunder.
+
+_Fifth_. Religious persecution.
+
+_Sixth_. The divine right of kings--an idea that
+rests upon the inequality of human rights, and insists
+that people should be governed without their con-
+sent; that the right of one man to govern another
+comes from God, and not from the consent of the
+governed. This is caste--one of the most odious
+forms of slavery.
+
+_Seventh_. A belief in malicious supernatural be-
+ings--devils, witches, and wizards.
+
+_Eighth_. A belief in an infinite being who or-
+dered, commanded, established and approved all
+these evils.
+
+_Ninth_. The idea that one man can be good for
+another, or bad for another--that is to say, that one
+can be rewarded for the goodness of another, or
+justly punished for the sins of another.
+
+_Tenth_. The dogma that a finite being can commit
+an infinite sin, and thereby incur the eternal dis-
+pleasure of an infinitely good being, and be justly
+subjected to eternal torment.
+
+My principal objection to the Bible is that it sus-
+tains all of these ten evils--that it is the advocate of
+
+357
+
+human slavery, the friend of polygamy; that within
+its pages I find the command to wage wars of ex-
+termination; that I find also that the Jews were
+taught to hate foreigners--to consider all human
+beings as inferior to themselves; I also find persecu-
+tion commanded as a religious duty; that kings were
+seated upon their thrones by the direct act of God,
+and that to rebel against a king was rebellion against
+God. I object to the Bible also because I find within
+its pages the infamous spirit of caste--I see the sons
+of Levi set apart as the perpetual beggars and
+governors of a people; because I find the air filled
+with demons seeking to injure and betray the sons
+of men; because this book is the fountain of modern
+superstition, the bulwark of tyranny and the fortress
+of caste. This book also subverts the idea of justice
+by threatening infinite punishment for the sins of a
+finite being.
+
+At the same time, I admit--as I always have ad-
+mitted--that there are good passages in the Bible--
+good laws, good teachings, with now and then a true
+line of history. But when it is asserted that every
+word was written by inspiration--that a being of in-
+finite wisdom and goodness is its author,--then
+I raise the standard of revolt.
+
+358
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the declaration
+of Mr. Talmage that the Bible will be read in heaven
+throughout all the endless ages of eternity?
+
+_Answer_. Of course I know but very little as to
+what is or will be done in heaven. My knowledge
+of that country is somewhat limited, and it may be
+possible that the angels will spend most of their time
+in turning over the sacred leaves of the Old Testa-
+ment. I can not positively deny the statement of the
+Reverend Mr. Talmage as I have but very little idea
+as to how the angels manage to kill time.
+
+The Reverend Mr. Spurgeon stated in a sermon
+that some people wondered what they would do
+through all eternity in heaven. He said that, as for
+himself, for the first hundred thousand years he
+would look at the wound in one of the Savior's
+feet, and for the next hundred thousand years he
+would look at the wound in his other foot, and
+for the next hundred thousand years he would
+look at the wound in one of his hands, and for
+the next hundred thousand years he would look at
+the wound in the other hand, and for the next
+hundred thousand years he would look at the wound
+in his side.
+
+Surely, nothing could be more delightful than this
+
+359
+
+A man capable of being happy in such employment,
+could of course take great delight in reading even
+the genealogies of the Old Testament. It is very
+easy to see what a glow of joy would naturally over-
+spread the face of an angel while reading the history
+of the Jewish wars, how the seraphim and cherubim
+would clasp their rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate
+of Korah and his company, and what laughter would
+wake the echoes of the New Jerusalem as some one
+told again the story of the children and the bears;
+and what happy groups, with folded pinions, would
+smilingly listen to the 109th Psalm.
+
+[Illustration:  371]
+
+An orthodox "state of mind"
+
+
+
+
+THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.
+
+_As Mr. Talmage delivered the series of sermons
+referred to in these interviews, for the purpose
+of furnishing arguments to the young, so that they
+might not be misled by the sophistry of modern
+infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth,
+for use in Sunday schools, the pith and marrow of
+what he has been pleased to say, in the form of_
+
+
+A SHORTER CATECHISM.
+
+_Question_. Who made you?
+
+_Answer_. Jehovah, the original Presbyterian.
+
+_Question_. What else did he make?
+
+_Answer_. He made the world and all things.
+
+_Question_. Did he make the world out of nothing?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. What did he make it out of?
+
+_Answer_. Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels
+have pretended that if God made the universe, and if
+there was nothing until he did make it, he had nothing
+to make it out of. Of course this is perfectly absurd
+when we remember that he always had his "omnipo-
+tence and that is, undoubtedly, the material used.
+
+364
+
+_Question_. Did he create his own "omnipotence"?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not, he was always omnipo-
+tent.
+
+_Question_. Then if he always had "omnipotence,"
+he did not "create" the material of which the uni-
+verse is made; he simply took a portion of his
+"omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly, that is the way I under-
+stand it.
+
+_Question_. Is he still omnipotent, and has he as
+much "omnipotence" now as he ever had?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose he has.
+
+_Question_. How long did it take God to make the
+universe?
+
+_Answer_. Six "good-whiles."
+
+_Question_. How long is a "good-while"?
+
+_Answer_. That will depend upon the future dis-
+coveries of geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such
+a nature that they can be pulled out, or pushed up;
+and it is utterly impossible for any infidel, or scien-
+tific geologist, to make any period that a "good-while"
+won't fit.
+
+_Question_. What do you understand by "the
+"morning and evening" of a "good-while"?
+
+_Answer_. Of course the words "morning and
+
+365
+
+"evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply
+the beginning and the ending, of each "good-while."
+
+_Question_. On what day did God make vegetation?
+
+_Answer_. On the third day.
+
+_Question_. Was that before the sun was made?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; a "good-while" before.
+
+_Question_. How did vegetation grow without sun-
+light?
+
+_Answer_. My own opinion is, that it was either
+"nourished by the glare of volcanoes in the moon
+or "it may have gotten sufficient light from rivers
+"of molten granite;" or, "sufficient light might have
+"been emitted by the crystallization of rocks." It
+has been suggested that light might have been fur-
+nished by fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and
+worms, but this I regard as going too far.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that light emitted by
+rocks would be sufficient to produce trees?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora
+"Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with
+both, most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. If the light of which you speak was
+sufficient, why was the sun made?
+
+_Answer_. To keep time with.
+
+_Question_. What did God make man of?
+
+366
+
+_Answer_. He made man of dust and "omnipo-
+"tence."
+
+_Question_. Did he make a woman at the same
+time that he made a man?
+
+_Answer_. No; he thought at one time to avoid
+the necessity of making a woman, and he caused all
+the animals to pass before Adam, to see what he
+would call them, and to see whether a fit companion
+could be found for him. Among them all, not one
+suited Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he
+would have to make an help-meet on purpose.
+
+_Question_. What was woman made of?
+
+_Answer_. She was made out of "man's side, out of
+his right side," and some more "omnipotence." Infi-
+dels say that she was made out of a rib, or a bone, but
+that is because they do not understand Hebrew.
+
+_Question_. What was the object of making woman
+out of man's side?
+
+_Answer_. So that a young man would think more
+of a neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grand-
+father.
+
+_Question_. What did God do with Adam and Eve
+after he got them done?
+
+_Answer_. He put them into a garden to see what
+they would do.
+
+367
+
+_Question_. Do we know where the Garden of Eden
+was, and have we ever found any place where a
+"river parted and became into four heads"?
+
+_Answer_. We are not certain where this garden
+was, and the river that parted into four heads cannot
+at present be found. Infidels have had a great deal
+to say about these four rivers, but they will wish
+they had even one, one of these days.
+
+_Question_. What happened to Adam and Eve in
+the garden?
+
+_Answer_. They were tempted by a snake who was
+an exceedingly good talker, and who probably came
+in walking on the end of his tail. This supposition
+is based upon the fact that, as a punishment, he was
+condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that time,
+of course, he walked upright.
+
+_Question_. What happened then?
+
+_Answer_. Our first parents gave way, ate of the
+forbidden fruit, and in consequence, disease and
+death entered the world. Had it not been for this,
+there would have been no death and no disease.
+Suicide would have been impossible, and a man
+could have been blown into a thousand atoms by
+dynamite, and the pieces would immediately have
+come together again. Fire would have refused to
+
+368
+
+burn and water to drown; there could have been no
+hunger, no thirst; all things would have been equally
+healthy.
+
+_Question_. Do you mean to say that there would
+have been no death in the world, either of animals,
+insects, or persons?
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. Do you also think that all briers and
+thorns sprang from the same source, and that had
+the apple not been eaten, no bush in the world
+would have had a thorn, and brambles and thistles
+would have been unknown?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Would there have been no poisonous
+plants, no poisonous reptiles?
+
+_Answer_. No, sir; there would have been none;
+there would have been no evil in the world if Adam
+and Eve had not partaken of the forbidden fruit.
+
+_Question_. Was the snake who tempted them to
+eat, evil?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. '
+
+_Question_. Was he in the world before the for-
+bidden fruit was eaten?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was; he tempted them to
+eat it
+
+369
+
+_Question_. How, then, do you account for the fact
+that, before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an evil
+serpent was in the world?
+
+_Answer_. Perhaps apples had been eaten in other
+worlds.
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that such awful con-
+sequences flowed from so small an act?
+
+_Answer_. It is not for you to reason about it; you
+should simply remember that God is omnipotent.
+There is but one way to answer these things, and
+that is to admit their truth. Nothing so puts the
+Infinite out of temper as to see a human being
+impudent enough to rely upon his reason. The
+moment we rely upon our reason, we abandon God,
+and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever relies
+entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and
+reason has no need of him.
+
+_Question_. Were our first parents under the im-
+mediate protection of an infinite God?
+
+_Answer_. They were.
+
+_Question_. Why did he not protect them? Why
+did he not warn them of this snake? Why did he
+not put them on their guard? Why did he not
+make them so sharp, intellectually, that they could
+not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that
+
+370
+
+snake; or how did he come to make him; what did
+he make him for?
+
+_Answer_. You must remember that, although God
+made Adam and Eve perfectly good, still he was very
+anxious to test them. He also gave them the power
+of choice, knowing at the same time exactly what they
+would choose, and knowing that he had made them
+so that they must choose in a certain way. A being
+of infinite wisdom tries experiments. Knowing ex-
+actly what will happen, he wishes to see if it will.
+
+_Question_. What punishment did God inflict upon
+Adam and Eve for the sin of having eaten the for-
+bidden fruit?
+
+_Answer_. He pronounced a curse upon the woman,
+saying that in sorrow she should bring forth children,
+and that her husband should rule over her; that she,
+having tempted her husband, was made his slave;
+and through her, all married women have been de-
+prived of their natural liberty. On account of the
+sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying
+that it should bring forth thorns and thistles, and
+that man should eat his bread in sorrow, and that he
+should eat the herb of the field.
+
+_Question_. Did he turn them out of the garden
+because of their sin?
+
+371
+
+_Answer_. No. The reason God gave for turning
+them out of the garden was: "Behold the man is
+"become as one of us, to know good and evil; and
+"now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the
+"tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the
+"Lord God sent him forth from the Garden of Eden
+"to till the ground from whence he was taken."
+
+_Question_. If the man had eaten of the tree of life,
+would he have lived forever?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Was he turned out to prevent his
+eating?
+
+_Answer_. He was.
+
+_Question_. Then the Old Testament tells us how we
+lost immortality, not that we are immortal, does it?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; it tells us how we lost it.
+
+_Question_. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve
+might get back into the garden, and eat of the fruit
+of the tree of life?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher-
+"ubim and a flaming sword which turned every
+"way to guard the tree of life."
+
+_Question_. Has any one ever seen any of these
+cherubim?
+
+_Answer_. Not that I know of.
+
+372
+
+_Question_. Where is the flaming sword now?
+
+_Answer_. Some angel has it in heaven.
+
+_Question_. Do you understand that God made
+coats of skins, and clothed Adam and Eve when
+he turned them out of the garden?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, sir.
+
+_Question_. Do you really believe that the infinite
+God killed some animals, took their skins from them,
+cut out and sewed up clothes for Adam and Eve?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible says so; we know that he
+had patterns for clothes, because he showed some
+to Moses on Mount Sinai.
+
+_Question_. About how long did God continue
+to pay particular attention to his children in this
+world?
+
+_Answer_. For about fifteen hundred years; and
+some of the people lived to be nearly a thousand
+years of age.
+
+_Question_. Did this God establish any schools or
+institutions of learning? Did he establish any church?
+Did he ordain any ministers, or did he have any re-
+vivals?
+
+_Answer_. No; he allowed the world to go on
+pretty much in its own way. He did not even keep
+his own boys at home. They came down and made
+
+373
+
+love to the daughters of men, and finally the world
+got exceedingly bad.
+
+_Question_. What did God do then?
+
+_Answer_. He made up his mind that he would drown
+them. You see they were all totally depraved,--in
+every joint and sinew of their bodies, in every drop
+of their blood, and in every thought of their brains.
+
+_Question_. Did he drown them all?
+
+_Answer_. No, he saved eight, to start with again.
+
+_Question_. Were these eight persons totally de-
+praved?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why did he not kill them, and start
+over again with a perfect pair? Would it not have
+been better to have had his flood at first, before he
+made anybody, and drowned the snake?
+
+_Answer_. "God's way are not our ways;" and
+besides, you must remember that "a thousand years
+"are as one day" with God.
+
+_Question_. How did God destroy the people?
+
+_Answer_. By water; it rained forty days and forty
+nights, and "the fountains of the great deep were
+"broken up."
+
+_Question_. How deep was the water?
+
+_Answer_. About five miles.
+
+374
+
+_Question_. How much did it rain each day?
+
+_Answer_. About eight hundred feet; though the
+better opinion now is, that it was a local flood. In-
+fidels have raised objections and pressed them to that
+degree that most orthodox people admit that the
+flood was rather local.
+
+_Question_. If it was a local flood, why did they put
+birds of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could
+have avoided a local flood?
+
+_Answer_. If you take this away from us, what do
+you propose to give us in its place? Some of the
+best people of the world have believed this story.
+Kind husbands, loving mothers, and earnest patriots
+have believed it, and that is sufficient.
+
+_Question_. At the time God made these people,
+did he know that he would have to drown them all?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he did.
+
+_Question_. Did he know when he made them that
+they would all be failures?
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. Why, then, did he make them?
+
+_Answer_. He made them for his own glory, and
+no man should disgrace his parents by denying it.
+
+_Question_. Were the people after the flood just as
+bad as they were before?
+
+375
+
+_Answer_. About the same.
+
+_Question_. Did they try to circumvent God?
+
+_Answer_. They did.
+
+_Question_. How?
+
+_Answer_. They got together for the purpose of build-
+ing a tower, the top of which should reach to heaven,
+so that they could laugh at any future floods, and go
+to heaven at any time they desired.
+
+_Question_. Did God hear about this?
+
+_Answer_. He did.
+
+_Question_. What did he say?
+
+_Answer_. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and
+see what the people are doing; I am satisfied they
+will succeed.
+
+_Question_. How were the people prevented from
+succeeding?
+
+_Answer_. God confounded their language, so that
+the mason on top could not cry "mort'!" to the
+hod-carrier below; he could not think of the word
+to use, to save his life, and the building stopped.
+
+_Question_. If it had not been for the confusion of
+tongues at Babel, do you really think that all the
+people in the world would have spoken just the same
+language, and would have pronounced every word
+precisely the same?
+
+376
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. If it had not been, then, for the con-
+fusion of languages, spelling books, grammars and
+dictionaries would have been useless?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose so.
+
+_Question_. Do any two people in the whole world
+speak the same language, now?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they don't, and this is one of
+the great evidences that God introduced confusion
+into the languages. Every error in grammar, every
+mistake in spelling, every blunder in pronunciation,
+proves the truth of the Babel story.
+
+_Question_. This being so, this miracle is the best
+attested of all?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose it is.
+
+_Question_. Do you not think that a confusion of
+tongues would bring men together instead of separa-
+ting them? Would not a man unable to converse
+with his fellow feel weak instead of strong; and
+would not people whose language had been con-
+founded cling together for mutual support?
+
+_Answer_. According to nature, yes; according to
+theology, no; and these questions must be answered
+according to theology. And right here, it may be
+well enough to state, that in theology the unnatural
+
+377
+
+is the probable, and the impossible is what has always
+happened. If theology were simply natural, anybody
+could be a theologian.
+
+_Question_. Did God ever make any other special
+efforts to convert the people, or to reform the world?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom
+and Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.
+
+_Question_. Do you suppose it was really brim-
+stone?
+
+_Answer_. Undoubtedly.
+
+_Question_. Do you think this brimstone came from
+the clouds?
+
+_Answer_. Let me tell you that you have no right
+to examine the Bible in the light of what people are
+pleased to call "science." The natural has nothing
+to do with the supernatural. Naturally there would
+be no brimstone in the clouds, but supernaturally
+there might be. God could make brimstone out of
+his "omnipotence." We do not know really what
+brimstone is, and nobody knows exactly how brim-
+stone is made. As a matter of fact, all the brimstone
+in the world might have fallen at that time.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Lot's wife was
+changed into salt?
+
+_Answer_. Of course she was. A miracle was per-
+
+378
+
+formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made
+by changing Lot's wife into that article, was standing.
+Christian travelers have seen it.
+
+_Question_. Why do you think she was changed
+into salt?
+
+_Answer_. For the purpose of keeping the event
+fresh in the minds of men.
+
+_Question_. God having failed to keep people in-
+nocent in a garden; having failed to govern them
+outside of a garden; having failed to reform them by
+water; having failed to produce any good result by a
+confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them
+with fire and brimstone, what did he then do?
+
+_Answer_. He concluded that he had no time to
+waste on them all, but that he would have to select
+one tribe, and turn his entire attention to just a few
+folks.
+
+_Question_. Whom did he select?
+
+_Answer_. A man by the name of Abram.
+
+_Question_. What kind of man was Abram?
+
+_Answer_. If you wish to know, read the twelfth
+chapter of Genesis; and if you still have any doubts
+as to his character, read the twentieth chapter of the
+same book, and you will see that he was a man who
+made merchandise of his wife's body. He had had
+
+379
+
+such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried the experi-
+ment again on Abimelech.
+
+_Question_. Did Abraham show any gratitude?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; he offered to sacrifice his son, to
+show his confidence in Jehovah.
+
+_Question_. What became of Abraham and his
+people?
+
+_Answer_. God took such care of them, that in
+about two hundred and fifteen years they were all
+slaves in the land of Egypt.
+
+_Question_. How long did they remain in slavery?
+
+_Answer_. Two hundred and fifteen years.
+
+_Question_. Were they the same people that God
+had promised to take care of?
+
+_Answer_. They were.
+
+_Question_. Was God at that time, in favor of
+slavery?
+
+_Answer_. Not at that time. He was angry at the
+Egyptians for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards
+authorized the Jews to enslave other people.
+
+_Question_. What means did he take to liberate
+the Jews?
+
+_Answer_. He sent his agents to Pharaoh, and de-
+manded their freedom; and upon Pharaoh s refusing,
+he afflicted the people, who had nothing to do with
+
+380
+
+it, with various plagues,--killed children, and tor-
+mented and tortured beasts.
+
+_Question_. Was such conduct Godlike?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. If you have anything against
+your neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his
+horse, or torment his dog. Nothing can be nobler
+than this. You see it is much better to injure his
+animals than to injure him. To punish animals for
+the sins of their owners must be just, or God would
+not have done it. Pharaoh insisted on keeping the
+people in slavery, and therefore God covered the
+bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He also bruised
+them to death with hailstones. From this we infer,
+that "the loving kindness of God is over all his works."
+
+_Question_. Do you consider such treatment of ani-
+mals consistent with divine mercy?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. You know that under the
+Mosaic dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he
+could settle with God by killing an ox, or a sheep,
+or some doves. If the man failed to kill them, of
+course God would kill them. It was upon this prin-
+ciple that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians.
+They had sinned, and he merely took his pay.
+
+_Question_. How was it possible, under the old dis-
+pensation, to please a being of infinite kindness?
+
+381
+
+_Answer_. All you had to do was to take an innocent
+animal, bring it to the altar, cut its throat, and sprinkle
+the altar with its blood. Certain parts of it were to be
+given to the butcher as his share, and the rest was to
+be burnt on the altar. When God saw an animal thus
+butchered, and smelt the warm blood mingled with
+the odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and the
+smile of forgiveness shed its light upon his face.
+Of course, infidels laugh at these things; but what
+can you expect of men who have not been "born
+"again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with God."
+_Question_. What else did God do in order to in-
+duce Pharaoh to liberate the Jews?
+
+_Answer_. He had his agents throw down a cane
+in the presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah
+changed this cane into a serpent.
+
+_Question_. Did this convince Pharaoh?
+
+_Answer_. No; he sent for his own magicians.
+_Question_. What did they do?
+
+_Answer_. They threw down some canes and they
+also were changed into serpents.
+
+_Question_. Did Jehovah change the canes of the
+Egyptian magicians into snakes?
+
+_Answer_. I suppose he did, as he is the only one
+capable of performing such a miracle.
+
+382
+
+_Question_. If the rod of Aaron was changed into
+a serpent in order to convince Pharaoh that God had
+sent Aaron and Moses, why did God change the
+sticks of the Egyptian magicians into serpents--why
+did he discredit his own agents, and render worth-
+less their only credentials?
+
+_Answer_. Well, we cannot explain the conduct of
+Jehovah; we are perfectly satisfied that it was for
+the best. Even in this age of the world God allows
+infidels to overwhelm his chosen people with argu-
+ments; he allows them to discover facts that his
+ministers can not answer, and yet we are satisfied
+that in the end God will give the victory to us. All
+these things are tests of faith. It is upon this prin-
+ciple that God allows geology to laugh at Genesis,
+that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict
+his holy word.
+
+_Question_. What did God do with these people
+after Pharaoh allowed them to go?
+
+_Answer_. Finding that they were not fit to settle
+a new country, owing to the fact that when hungry
+they longed for food, and sometimes when their lips
+were cracked with thirst insisted on having water,
+God in his infinite mercy had them marched round
+and round, back and forth, through a barren wilder-
+
+383
+
+ness, until all, with the exception of two persons,
+died.
+
+_Question_. Why did he do this?
+
+_Answer_. Because he had promised these people
+that he would take them "to a land flowing with
+"milk and honey."
+
+_Question_. Was God always patient and kind and
+merciful toward his children while they were in the
+wilderness?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, he always was merciful and kind
+and patient. Infidels have taken the ground that he
+visited them with plagues and disease and famine;
+that he had them bitten by serpents, and now and
+then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands
+of them, and in other ways saw to it that they were
+kept as comfortable and happy as was consistent with
+good government; but all these things were for their
+good; and the fact is, infidels have no real sense of
+justice.
+
+_Question_. How did God happen to treat the Is-
+raelites in this way, when he had promised Abraham
+that he would take care of his progeny, and when he
+had promised the same to the poor wretches while
+they were slaves in Egypt?
+
+_Answer_. Because God is unchangeable in his na-
+
+384
+
+ture, and wished to convince them that every being
+should be perfectly faithful to his promise.
+
+_Question_. Was God driven to madness by the
+conduct of his chosen people?
+
+_Answer_. Almost.
+
+_Question_. Did he know exactly what they would
+do when he chose them?
+
+_Answer_. Exactly.
+
+_Question_. Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?
+
+_Answer_. They were. They worshiped other gods
+--gods made of wood and stone.
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that they were not
+convinced of the power of God, by the many mira-
+cles wrought in Egypt and in the wilderness?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, it is very wonderful; but the Jews,
+who must have seen bread rained from heaven; who
+saw water gush from the rocks and follow them up hill
+and down; who noticed that their clothes did not
+wear out, and did not even get shiny at the knees,
+while the elbows defied the ravages of time, and
+their shoes remained perfect for forty years; it is
+wonderful that when they saw the ground open
+and swallow their comrades; when they saw God
+talking face to face with Moses as a man talks with
+his friend; after they saw the cloud by day and the
+
+385
+
+pillar of fire by night,--it is absolutely astonishing
+that they had more faith in a golden calf that they
+made themselves, than in Jehovah.
+
+_Question_. How is it that the Jews had no confi-
+dence in these miracles?
+
+_Answer_. Because they were there and saw them.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that it is necessary for
+us to believe all the miracles of the Old Testament
+in order to be saved?
+
+_Answer_. The Old Testament is the foundation of
+the New. If the Old Testament is not inspired, then
+the New is of no value. If the Old Testament is
+inspired, all the miracles are true, and we cannot
+believe that God would allow any errors, or false
+statements, to creep into an inspired volume, and to
+be perpetuated through all these years.
+
+_Question_. Should we believe the miracles, whether
+they are reasonable or not?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly; if they were reasonable, they
+would not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness
+that appeals to our credulity and our faith. It is im-
+possible to have theological faith in anything that
+can be demonstrated. It is the office of faith to
+believe, not only without evidence, but in spite of
+evidence. It is impossible for the carnal mind to
+
+386
+
+believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the
+length of his hair. "God has made the wisdom of
+"this world foolishness." Neither can the uncon-
+verted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel kept by
+ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would
+in and of itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot
+could create oil. But to a Christian, in order that a
+widow might feed a preacher, the truth of these
+stories is perfectly apparent.
+
+_Question_. How should we regard the wonderful
+stories of the Old Testament?
+
+_Answer_. They should be looked upon as "types"
+and "symbols." They all have a spiritual signifi-
+cance. The reason I believe the story of Jonah is,
+that Jonah is a type of Christ.
+
+_Question_. Do you believe the story of Jonah to
+be a true account of a literal fact?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. You must remember that
+Jonah was not swallowed by a whale. God "pre-
+"pared a great fish" for that occasion. Neither is it by
+any means certain that Jonah was in the belly of
+this whale. "He probably stayed in his mouth."
+Even if he was in his stomach, it was very easy
+for him to defy the ordinary action of gastric juice
+by rapidly walking up and down..
+
+387
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Jonah was really in
+the whale's stomach?
+
+_Answer_. My own opinion is that he stayed in his
+mouth. The only objection to this theory is, that it
+is more reasonable than the other and requires less
+faith. Nothing could be easier than for God to make
+a fish large enough to furnish ample room for one
+passenger in his mouth. I throw out this suggestion
+simply that you may be able to answer the objections
+of infidels who are always laughing at this story.
+
+_Question_. Do you really believe that Elijah went
+to heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of
+fire?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he did.
+
+_Question_. What was this miracle performed for?
+
+_Answer_. To convince the people of the power of
+God.
+
+_Question_. Who saw the miracle?
+
+_Answer_. Nobody but Elisha.
+
+_Question_. Was he convinced before that time?
+
+_Answer_. Oh yes; he was one of God's prophets.
+
+_Question_. Suppose that in these days two men
+should leave a town together, and after a while one
+of them should come back having on the clothes of
+the other, and should account for the fact that he had
+
+388
+
+his friend's clothes by saying that while they were
+going along the road together a chariot of fire came
+down from heaven drawn by fiery steeds, and there-
+upon his friend got into the carriage, threw him his
+clothes, and departed,--would you believe it?
+
+_Answer_. Of course things like that don't happen
+in these days; God does not have to rely on wonders
+now.
+
+_Question_. Do you mean that he performs no
+miracles at the present day?
+
+_Answer_. We cannot say that he does not perform
+miracles now, but we are not in position to call atten-
+tion to any particular one. Of course he supervises
+the affairs of nations and men and does whatever in
+his judgment is necessary.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Samson's strength
+depended on the length of his hair?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible so states, and the Bible is true.
+A physiologist might say that a man could not use
+the muscle in his hair for lifting purposes, but these
+same physiologists could not tell you how you move
+a finger, nor how you lift a feather; still, actuated by
+the pride of intellect, they insist that the length of a
+man's hair could not determine his strength. God
+says it did; the physiologist says that it did not; we
+
+389
+
+can not hesitate whom to believe. For the purpose
+of avoiding eternal agony I am willing to believe
+anything; I am willing to say that strength depends
+upon the length of hair, or faith upon the length of
+ears. I am perfectly willing to believe that a man
+caught three hundred foxes, and put fire brands be-
+tween their tails; that he slew thousands with a bone,
+and that he made a bee hive out of a lion. I will
+believe, if necessary, that when this man's hair was
+short he hardly had strength enough to stand, and
+that when it was long, he could carry away the gates
+of a city, or overthrow a temple filled with people.
+If the infidel is right, I will lose nothing by believing,
+but if he is wrong, I shall gain an eternity of joy.
+If God did not intend that we should believe these
+stories, he never would have told them, and why
+should a man put his soul in peril by trying to dis-
+prove one of the statements of the Lord?
+
+_Question_. Suppose it should turn out that some
+of these miracles depend upon mistranslations of the
+original Hebrew, should we still believe them?
+
+_Answer_. The safe side is the best side. It is
+far better to err on the side of belief, than on the
+side of infidelity. God does not threaten anybody
+with eternal punishment for believing too much.
+
+390
+
+Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the
+side of thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely
+safe. As they diverge from that point,--as they rise
+in the intellectual scale, as the brain develops, as the
+faculties enlarge, the danger increases. I know that
+some biblical students now take the ground that
+Samson caught no foxes,--that he only took sheaves
+of wheat that had been already cut and bound, set
+them on fire, and threw them into the grain still
+standing. If this is what he did, of course there is
+nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the
+story is lost. So, others contend that Elijah was not
+fed by the ravens, but by the Arabs. They tell us
+that the Hebrew word standing for "Arab" also
+stands for "bird," and that the word really means
+"migratory--going from place to place--homeless."
+But I prefer the old version. It certainly will do no
+harm to believe that ravens brought bread and flesh
+to a prophet of God. Where they got their bread
+and flesh is none of my business; how they knew
+where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how
+God talks to ravens, or how he gave them directions,
+I have no right to inquire. I leave these questions
+to the scientists, the blasphemers, and thinkers.
+There are many people in the church anxious to
+
+391
+
+get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands,
+I have no doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn
+that there is, in fact, nothing miraculous in Scripture;
+but when you take away the miraculous, you take
+away the supernatural; when you take away the
+supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when
+you take away the ministry, hundreds of thousands
+of men will be left without employment.
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that the Egyptians
+were not converted by the miracles wrought in their
+country?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, they all would have been, if God
+had not purposely hardened their hearts to prevent
+it. Jehovah always took great delight in furnishing
+the evidence, and then hardening the man's heart so
+that he would not believe it. After all the miracles
+that had been performed in Egypt,--the most won-
+derful that were ever done in any country, the
+Egyptians were as unbelieving as at first; they pur-
+sued the Israelites, knowing that they were protected
+by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them,
+came back and worshiped their own false gods just as
+firmly as before. All of which shows the unreason-
+ableness of a Pagan, and the natural depravity of
+human nature.
+
+392
+
+_Question_. How did it happen that the Canaanites
+were never convinced that the Jews were assisted by
+Jehovah?
+
+_Answer_. They must have been an exceedingly
+brave people to contend so many years with the
+chosen people of God. Notwithstanding all their
+cities were burned time and time again; notwith-
+standing all the men, women and children were put
+to the edge of the sword; notwithstanding the taking
+of all their cattle and sheep, they went right on
+fighting just as valiantly and desperately as ever.
+Each one lost his life many times, and was just as
+ready for the next conflict. My own opinion is, that
+God kept them alive by raising them from the dead
+after each battle, for the purpose of punishing the
+Jews. God used his enemies as instruments for the
+civilization of the Jewish people. He did not wish
+to convert them, because they would give him much
+more trouble as Jews than they did as Canaanites.
+He had all the Jews he could conveniently take care
+of. He found it much easier to kill a hundred
+Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the fact that
+the heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the
+sun and moon?
+
+393
+
+_Answer_. They were so ignorant that they had
+not the slightest conception of the real cause of
+the phenomenon. Had they known the size of
+the earth, and the relation it sustained to the other
+heavenly bodies; had they known the magnitude of
+the sun, and the motion of the moon, they would,
+in all probability, have been as greatly astonished as
+the Jews were; but being densely ignorant of as-
+tronomy, it must have produced upon them not the
+slightest impression. But we must remember that
+the sun and moon were not stopped for the purpose
+of converting these people, but to give Joshua more
+time to kill them. As soon as we see clearly the
+purpose of Jehovah, we instantly perceive how ad-
+mirable were the means adopted.
+
+_Question_. Do you not consider the treatment
+of the Canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious?
+
+_Answer_. To a totally depraved man, it does look
+cruel; to a being without any good in him,--to one
+who has inherited the rascality of many generations,
+the murder of innocent women and little children
+does seem horrible; to one who is "contaminated in
+"all his parts," by original sin,--who was "conceived
+"in sin, and brought forth in iniquity," the assassina-
+tion of men, and the violation of captive maidens,
+
+394
+
+do not seem consistent with infinite goodness. But
+when one has been "born again," when "the love
+"of God has been shed abroad in his heart," when
+he loves all mankind, when he "overcomes evil with
+"good," when he "prays for those who despite-
+"fully use him and persecute him,"--to such a man,
+the extermination of the Canaanites, the violation
+of women, the slaughter of babes, and the destruc-
+tion of countless thousands, is the highest evidence
+of the goodness, the mercy, and the long-suffering
+of God. When a man has been "born again," all
+the passages of the Old Testament that appear so
+horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state,
+become the dearest, the most consoling, and the
+most beautiful of truths. The real Christian reads
+the accounts of these ancient battles with the greatest
+possible satisfaction. To one who really loves his
+enemies, the groans of men, the shrieks of women,
+and the cries of babes, make music sweeter than the
+zephyr's breath.
+
+_Question_. In your judgment, why did God destroy
+the Canaanites?
+
+_Answer_. To prevent their contaminating his
+chosen people. He knew that if the Jews were
+allowed to live with such neighbors, they would
+
+395
+
+finally become as bad as the Canaanites themselves.
+He wished to civilize his chosen people, and it was
+therefore necessary for him to destroy the heathen.
+
+_Question_. Did God succeed in civilizing the Jews
+after he had "removed" the Canaanites?
+
+_Answer_. Well, not entirely. He had to allow the
+heathen he had not destroyed to overrun the whole
+land and make captives of the Jews. This was done
+for the good of his chosen people.
+
+_Question_. Did he then succeed in civilizing them?
+
+_Answer_. Not quite.
+
+_Question_. Did he ever quite succeed in civilizing
+them?
+
+_Answer_. Well, we must admit that the experi-
+ment never was a conspicuous success. The Jews
+were chosen by the Almighty 430 years before he
+appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai. He was their
+direct Governor. He attended personally to their
+religion and politics, and gave up a great part of his
+valuable time for about two thousand years, to the
+management of their affairs; and yet, such was the
+condition of the Jewish people, after they had had all
+these advantages, that when there arose among them
+a perfectly kind, just, generous and honest man, these
+people, with whom God had been laboring for so
+
+396
+
+many centuries, deliberately put to death that good
+and loving man.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that God really endeav-
+ored to civilize the Jews?
+
+_Answer_. This is an exceedingly hard question.
+If he had really tried to do it, of course he could
+have done it. We must not think of limiting the
+power of the infinite. But you must remember that
+if he had succeeded in civilizing the Jews, if he had
+educated them up to the plane of intellectual liberty,
+and made them just and kind and merciful, like him-
+self, they would not have crucified Christ, and you
+can see at once the awful condition in which we
+would all be to-day. No atonement could have
+been made; and if no atonement had been made,
+then, according to the Christian system, the whole
+world would have been lost. We must admit that
+there was no time in the history of the Jews from
+Sinai to Jerusalem, that they would not have put a
+man like Christ to death.
+
+_Question_. So you think that, after all, it was not
+God's intention that the Jews should become civilized?
+
+_Answer_. We do not know. We can only say
+that "God's ways are not our ways." It may be
+that God took them in his special charge, for the
+
+397
+
+purpose of keeping them bad enough to make the
+necessary sacrifice. That may have been the divine
+plan. In any event, it is safer to believe the explana-
+tion that is the most unreasonable.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Christ knew the
+Jews would crucify him?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that when he chose
+Judas he knew that he would betray him?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Did he know when Judas went to the
+chief priest and made the bargain for the delivery
+of Christ?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Why did he allow himself to be be-
+trayed, if he knew the plot?
+
+_Answer_. Infidelity is a very good doctrine to live
+by, but you should read the last words of Paine and
+Voltaire.
+
+_Question_. If Christ knew that Judas would betray
+him, why did he choose him?
+
+_Answer_. Nothing can exceed the atrocities of the
+French Revolution--when they carried a woman
+through the streets and worshiped her as the goddess
+of Reason.
+
+398
+
+_Question_. Would not the mission of Christ have
+been a failure had no one betrayed him?
+
+_Answer_. Thomas Paine was a drunkard, and re-
+canted on his death-bed, and died a blaspheming
+infidel besides.
+
+_Question_. Is it not clear that an atonement was
+necessary; and is it not equally clear that the atone-
+ment could not have been made unless somebody
+had betrayed Christ; and unless the Jews had been
+wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him?
+
+_Answer_. Of course the atonement had to be
+made. It was a part of the "divine plan" that Christ
+should be betrayed, and that the Jews should be
+wicked enough to kill him. Otherwise, the world
+would have been lost.
+
+_Question_. Suppose Judas had understood the
+divine plan, what ought he to have done? Should
+he have betrayed Christ, or let somebody else do it;
+or should he have allowed the world to perish, in-
+cluding his own soul?
+
+_Answer_. If you take the Bible away from the
+world, "how would it be possible to have witnesses
+"sworn in courts;" how would it be possible to ad-
+minister justice?
+
+_Question_. If Christ had not been betrayed and
+
+399
+
+crucified, is it true that his own mother would be in
+perdition to-day?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly. There was but one
+way by which she could be saved, and that was by
+the death of her son--through the blood of the
+atonement. She was totally depraved through the
+sin of Adam, and deserved eternal death. Even her
+love for the infant Christ was, in the sight of God,--
+that is to say, of her babe,--wickedness. It can not
+be repeated too often that there is only one way to
+be saved, and that is, to believe in the Lord Jesus
+Christ.
+
+_Question_. Could Christ have prevented the Jews
+from crucifying him?
+
+_Answer_. He could.
+
+_Question_. If he could have saved his life and did
+not, was he not guilty of suicide?
+
+_Answer_. No one can understand these questions
+who has not read the prophecies of Daniel, and has
+not a clear conception of what is meant by "the full-
+"ness of time."
+
+_Question_. What became of all the Canaanites, the
+Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and Romans and
+Chinese? What became of the billions who died
+before the promise was made to Abraham; of the
+
+400
+
+billions and billions who never heard of the Bible,
+who never heard the name, even, of Jesus Christ--
+never knew of "the scheme of salvation"? What
+became of the millions and billions who lived in this
+hemisphere, and of whose existence Jehovah himself
+seemed perfectly ignorant?
+
+_Answer_. They were undoubtedly lost. God
+having made them, had a right to do with them as
+he pleased. They are probably all in hell to-day, and
+the fact that they are damned, only adds to the joy
+of the redeemed. It is by contrast that we are able
+to perceive the infinite kindness with which God has
+treated us.
+
+_Question_. Is it not possible that something can
+be done for a human soul in another world as well as
+in this?
+
+_Answer_. No; this is the only world in which
+God even attempts to reform anybody. In the
+other world, nothing is done for the purpose of
+making anybody better. Here in this world, where
+man lives but a few days, is the only opportunity
+for moral improvement. A minister can do a thou-
+sand times more for a soul than its creator; and this
+country is much better adapted to moral growth than
+heaven itself. A person who lived on this earth a
+
+401
+
+few years, and died without having been converted,
+has no hope in another world. The moment he arrives
+at the judgment seat, nothing remains but to damn
+him. Neither God, nor the Holy Ghost, nor Jesus
+Christ, can have the least possible influence with
+him there.
+
+_Question_. When God created each human being,
+did he know exactly what would be his eternal fate?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly he did.
+
+_Question_. Did he know that hundreds and millions
+and billions would suffer eternal pain?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. But he gave them freedom
+of choice between good and evil.
+
+_Question_. Did he know exactly how they would
+use that freedom?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Did he know that billions would use
+it wrong?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Was it optional with him whether he
+should make such people or not?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Had these people any option as to
+whether they would be made or not?
+
+_Answer_, No.
+
+402
+
+_Question_. Would it not have been far better to
+leave them unconscious dust?
+
+_Answer_. These questions show how foolish it is
+to judge God according to a human standard. What
+to us seems just and merciful, God may regard in an
+exactly opposite light; and we may hereafter be
+developed to such a degree that we will regard the
+agonies of the damned as the highest possible evi-
+dence of the goodness and mercy of God.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the fact that
+God did not make himself known except to Abra-
+ham and his descendants? Why did he fail to
+reveal himself to the other nations--nations that,
+compared with the Jews, were learned, cultivated
+and powerful? Would you regard a revelation now
+made to the Esquimaux as intended for us; and
+would it be a revelation of which we would be
+obliged to take notice?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, God could have revealed him-
+self, not only to all the great nations, but to each
+individual. He could have had the Ten Command-
+ments engraved on every heart and brain; or he
+could have raised up prophets in every land; but
+he chose, rather, to allow countless millions of his
+children to wander in the darkness and blackness of
+
+403
+
+Nature; chose, rather, that they should redden their
+hands in each other's blood; chose, rather, that they
+should live without light, and die without hope;
+chose, rather, that they should suffer, not only in this
+world, but forever in the next. Of course we have
+no right to find fault with the choice of God.
+
+_Question_. Now you can tell a sinner to "believe
+"on the Lord Jesus Christ;" what could a sinner have
+been told in Egypt, three thousand years ago; and
+in what language would you have addressed a Hindu
+in the days of Buddha--the "divine scheme" at that
+time being a secret in the divine breast?
+
+_Answer_. It is not for us to think upon these
+questions. The moment we examine the Christian
+system, we begin to doubt. In a little while, we shall
+be infidels, and shall lose the respect of those who
+refuse to think. It is better to go with the majority.
+These doctrines are too sacred to be touched. You
+should be satisfied with the religion of your father
+and your mother. "You want some book on the
+"centre-table," in the parlor; it is extremely handy
+to have a Family Record; and what book, other than
+the Bible, could a mother give a son as he leaves the
+old homestead?
+
+_Question_. Is it not wonderful that all the writers
+
+404
+
+of the four gospels do not give an account of the
+ascension of Jesus Christ?
+
+_Answer_. This question has been answered long
+ago, time and time again.
+
+_Question_. Perhaps it has, but would it not be
+well enough to answer it once more? Some may
+not have seen the answer?
+
+_Answer_. Show me the hospitals that infidels
+have built; show me the asylums that infidels
+have founded.
+
+_Question_. I know you have given the usual an-
+swer; but after all, is it not singular that a miracle
+so wonderful as the bodily ascension of a man, should
+not have been mentioned by all the writers of that
+man's life? Is it not wonderful that some of them
+said that he did ascend, and others that he agreed to
+stay with his disciples always?
+
+_Answer_. People unacquainted with the Hebrew,
+can have no conception of these things. A story
+in plain English, does not sound as it does in Hebrew.
+Miracles seem altogether more credible, when told in
+a dead language.
+
+_Question_. What, in your judgment, became of
+the dead who were raised by Christ? Is it not
+singular that they were never mentioned afterward?
+
+405
+
+Would not a man who had been raised from the
+dead naturally be an object of considerable interest,
+especially to his friends and acquaintances? And
+is it not also wonderful that Christ, after having
+wrought so many miracles, cured so many lame and
+halt and blind, fed so many thousands miraculously,
+and after having entered Jerusalem in triumph as a
+conqueror and king, had to be pointed out by one
+of his own disciples who was bribed for the purpose?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, all these things are exceed-
+ingly wonderful, and if found in any other book,
+would be absolutely incredible; but we have no
+right to apply the same kind of reasoning to the
+Bible that we apply to the Koran or to the sacred
+books of the Hindus. For the ordinary affairs of
+this world, God has given us reason; but in the
+examination of religious questions, we should de-
+pend upon credulity and faith.
+
+_Question_. If Christ came to offer himself a sacri-
+fice, for the purpose of making atonement for the
+sins of such as might believe on him, why did he
+not make this fact known to all of his disciples?
+
+_Answer_. He did. This was, and is, the gospel.
+
+_Question_. How is it that Matthew says nothing
+about "salvation by faith," but simply says that God
+
+406
+
+will be merciful to the merciful, that he will forgive
+the forgiving, and says not one word about the
+necessity of believing anything?
+
+_Answer_. But you will remember that Mark says,
+in the last chapter of his gospel, that "whoso be-
+"lieveth not shall be damned."
+
+_Question_. Do you admit that Matthew says
+nothing on the subject?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, I suppose I must.
+
+_Question_. Is not that passage in Mark generally
+admitted to be an interpolation?
+
+_Answer_. Some biblical scholars say that it is.
+
+_Question_. Is that portion of the last chapter of
+Mark found in the Syriac version of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. It is not.
+
+_Question_. If it was necessary to believe on Jesus
+Christ, in order to be saved, how is it that Matthew
+failed to say so?
+
+_Answer_. "There are more copies of the Bible
+"printed to-day, than of any other book in the world,
+"and it is printed in more languages than any other
+"book."
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it necessary to be
+"regenerated"--to be "born again"--in order to be
+saved?
+
+407
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Did Matthew say anything on the sub-
+ject of "regeneration"?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. Did Mark?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. Did Luke?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. Is Saint John the only one who speaks
+of the necessity of being "born again"?
+
+_Answer_. He is.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Matthew, Mark and
+Luke knew anything about the necessity of "regen-
+"eration"?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they did.
+
+_Question_. Why did they fail to speak of it?
+
+_Answer_. There is no civilization without the Bible.
+The moment you throw away the sacred Scriptures,
+you are all at sea--you are without an anchor and
+without a compass.
+
+_Question_. You will remember that, according to
+Mark, Christ said to his disciples: "Go ye into all
+"the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
+Did he refer to the gospel set forth by Mark?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he did.
+
+408
+
+_Question_. Well, in the gospel set forth by Mark,
+there is not a word about "regeneration," and no
+word about the necessity of believing anything--ex-
+cept in an interpolated passage. Would it not seem
+from this, that "regeneration" and a "belief in the
+"Lord Jesus Christ," are no part of the gospel?
+
+_Answer_. Nothing can exceed in horror the last
+moments of the infidel; nothing can be more ter-
+rible than the death of the doubter. When the
+glories of this world fade from the vision; when am-
+bition becomes an empty name; when wealth turns
+to dust in the palsied hand of death, of what use is
+philosophy then? Who cares then for the pride of
+intellect? In that dread moment, man needs some-
+thing to rely on, whether it is true or not.
+
+_Question_. Would it not have been more con-
+vincing if Christ, after his resurrection, had shown
+himself to his enemies as well as to his friends?
+Would it not have greatly strengthened the evidence
+in the case, if he had visited Pilate; had presented
+himself before Caiaphas, the high priest; if he had
+again entered the temple, and again walked the
+streets of Jerusalem?
+
+_Answer_. If the evidence had been complete and
+overwhelming, there would have been no praise-
+
+409
+
+worthiness in belief; even publicans and sinners
+would have believed, if the evidence had been suffi-
+cient. The amount of evidence required is the test
+of the true Christian spirit.
+
+_Question_. Would it not also have been better
+had the ascension taken place in the presence of
+unbelieving thousands; it seems such a pity to have
+wasted such a demonstration upon those already
+convinced?
+
+_Answer_. These questions are the natural fruit of
+the carnal mind, and can be accounted for only by
+the doctrine of total depravity. Nothing has given
+the church more trouble than just such questions.
+Unholy curiosity, a disposition to pry into the divine
+mysteries, a desire to know, to investigate, to explain
+--in short, to understand, are all evidences of a re-
+probate mind.
+
+_Question_. How can we account for the fact that
+Matthew alone speaks of the wise men of the East
+coming with gifts to the infant Christ; that he alone
+speaks of the little babes being killed by Herod? Is
+it possible that the other writers never heard of these
+things?
+
+_Answer_. Nobody can get any good out of the
+Bible by reading it in a critical spirit. The contra-
+
+410
+
+dictions and discrepancies are only apparent, and melt
+away before the light of faith. That which in other
+books would be absolute and palpable contradiction,
+is, in the Bible, when spiritually discerned, a perfect
+and beautiful harmony. My own opinion is, that
+seeming contradictions are in the Bible for the pur-
+pose of testing and strengthening the faith of Chris-
+tians, and for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels,
+"that they might believe a lie and be damned."
+_Question_. Is it possible that a good God would
+take pains to deceive his children?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible is filled with instances of that
+kind, and all orthodox ministers now know that
+fossil animals--that is, representations of animals in
+stone, were placed in the rocks on purpose to mis-
+lead men like Darwin and Humboldt, Huxley and
+Tyndall. It is also now known that God, for the
+purpose of misleading the so-called men of science,
+had hairy elephants preserved in ice, made stomachs
+for them, and allowed twigs of trees to be found in
+these stomachs, when, as a matter of fact, no such
+elephants ever lived or ever died. These men who
+are endeavoring to overturn the Scriptures with the
+lever of science will find that they have been de-
+ceived. Through all eternity they will regret their
+
+411
+
+philosophy. They will wish, in the next world, that
+they had thrown away geology and physiology and
+all other "ologies" except theology. The time is
+coming when Jehovah will "mock at their fears and
+"laugh at their calamity."
+
+_Question_. If Joseph was not the father of Christ,
+why was his genealogy given to show that Christ
+was of the blood of David; why would not the
+genealogy of any other Jew have done as well?
+
+_Answer_. That objection was raised and answered
+hundreds of years ago.
+
+_Question_. If they wanted to show that Christ was of
+the blood of David, why did they not give the gene-
+alogy of his mother if Joseph was not his father?
+
+_Answer_. That objection was answered hundreds
+of years ago.
+
+_Question_. How was it answered?
+
+_Answer_. When Voltaire was dying, he sent for a
+priest.
+
+_Question_. How does it happen that the two gene-
+alogies given do not agree?
+
+_Answer_. Perhaps they were written by different
+persons.
+
+_Question_. Were both these persons inspired by
+the same God?
+
+412
+
+_Answer_. Of course.
+
+_Question_. Why were the miracles recorded in the
+New Testament performed?
+
+_Answer_. The miracles were the evidence relied
+on to prove the supernatural origin and the divine
+mission of Jesus Christ.
+
+_Question_. Aside from the miracles, is there any
+evidence to show the supernatural origin or character
+of Jesus Christ?
+
+_Answer_. Some have considered that his moral
+precepts are sufficient, of themselves, to show that
+he was divine.
+
+_Question_. Had all of his moral precepts been
+taught before he lived?
+
+_Answer_. The same things had been said, but they
+did not have the same meaning.
+
+_Question_. Does the fact that Buddha taught the
+same tend to show that he was of divine origin?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not. The rules of evidence
+applicable to the Bible are not applicable to other
+books. We examine other books in the light of
+reason; the Bible is the only exception. So, we
+should not judge of Christ as we do of any other
+man.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Christ wrought
+
+413
+
+many of his miracles because he was good, charitable,
+and filled with pity?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly
+
+_Question_. Has he as much power now as he had
+when on earth?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. Is he as charitable and pitiful now, as
+he was then?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why does he not now cure the lame
+and the halt and the blind?
+
+_Answer_. It is well known that, when Julian the
+Apostate was dying, catching some of his own blood
+in his hand and throwing it into the air he exclaimed:
+"Galileean, thou hast conquered!"
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it our duty to love our
+neighbor?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly.
+
+_Question_. Is virtue the same in all worlds?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. Are we under obligation to render good
+for evil, and to "pray for those who despitefully use us"?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Will Christians in heaven love their
+neighbors?
+
+414
+
+_Answer_. Y es; if their neighbors are not in hell.
+
+_Question_. Do good Christians pity sinners in this
+world?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why?
+
+_Answer_. Because they regard them as being in
+great danger of the eternal wrath of God.
+
+_Question_. After these sinners have died, and
+been sent to hell, will the Christians in heaven then
+pity them?
+
+_Answer_. No. Angels have no pity.
+
+_Question_. If we are under obligation to love our
+enemies, is not God under obligation to love his?
+If we forgive our enemies, ought not God to forgive
+his? If we forgive those who injure us, ought not
+God to forgive those who have not injured him?
+
+_Answer_. God made us, and he has therefore the
+right to do with us as he pleases. Justice demands
+that he should damn all of us, and the few that he
+will save will be saved through mercy and without
+the slightest respect to anything they may have done
+themselves. Such is the justice of God, that those
+in hell will have no right to complain, and those in
+heaven will have no right to be there. Hell is justice,
+and salvation is charity.
+
+415
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it possible for a law to
+be jusdy satisfied by the punishment of an innocent
+person?
+
+_Answer_. Such is the scheme of the atonement.
+As man is held responsible for the sin of Adam, so
+he will be credited with the virtues of Christ; and
+you can readily see that one is exactly as reasonable
+as the other.
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man honestly reads the New
+Testament, and honestly concludes that it is not an
+inspired book; suppose he honestly makes up his
+mind that the miracles are not true; that the devil
+never really carried Christ to the pinnacle of the
+temple; that devils were really never cast out of a
+man and allowed to take refuge in swine;--I say,
+suppose that he is honestly convinced that these
+things are not true, what ought he to say?
+
+_Answer_. He ought to say nothing.
+
+_Question_. Suppose that the same man should read
+the Koran, and come to the conclusion that it is not
+an inspired book; what ought he to say?
+
+_Answer_. He ought to say that it is not inspired;
+his fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and
+it is his duty to do what he can do to destroy a per-
+nicious superstition.
+
+416
+
+_Question_. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible,
+having become convinced that it is not inspired--
+honestly convinced--says nothing--keeps his con-
+clusion absolutely to himself, and suppose he dies in
+that belief, can he be saved?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not.
+
+_Question_. Has the honesty of his belief anything
+to do with his future condition?
+
+_Answer_. Nothing whatever.,
+
+_Question_. Suppose that he tried to believe, that
+he hated to disagree with his friends, and with his
+parents, but that in spite of himself he was forced to
+the conclusion that the Bible is not the inspired word
+of God, would he then deserve eternal punishment?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly he would.
+
+_Question_. Can a man control his belief?
+
+_Answer_. He cannot--except as to the Bible.
+
+_Question_. Do you consider it just in God to
+create a man who cannot believe the Bible, and then
+damn him because he does not?
+
+_Answer_. Such is my belief.
+
+_Question_. Is it your candid opinion that a man
+who does not believe the Bible should keep his
+belief a secret from his fellow-men?
+
+_Answer_. It is.
+
+417
+
+_Question_. How do I know that you believe the
+Bible? You have told me that if you did not be-
+lieve it, you would not tell me?
+
+_Answer_. There is no way for you to ascertain,
+except by taking my word for it.
+
+_Question_. What will be the fate of a man who
+does not believe it, and yet pretends to believe it?
+
+_Answer_. He will be damned.
+
+_Question_. Then hypocrisy will not save him?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. And if he does not believe it, and ad-
+mits that he does not believe it, then his honesty will
+not save him?
+
+_Answer_. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no
+better than hypocrisy on the right side.
+
+_Question_. Do we know who wrote the gospels?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; we do.
+
+_Question_. Are we absolutely sure who wrote
+them?
+
+_Answer_. Of course; we have the evidence as it
+has come to us through the Catholic Church.
+
+_Question_. Can we rely upon the Catholic Church
+now?
+
+_Answer_. No; assuredly no! But we have the
+testimony of Polycarp and Irenaeus and Clement,
+
+418
+
+and others of the early fathers, together with that of
+the Christian historian, Eusebius.
+
+_Question_. What do we really know about Polycarp?
+
+_Answer_. We know that he suffered martyrdom un-
+der Marcus Aurelius, and that for quite a time the fire
+refused to burn his body, the flames arching over him,
+leaving him in a kind of fiery tent; and we also know
+that from his body came a fragrance like frankincense,
+and that the Pagans were so exasperated at seeing
+the miracle, that one of them thrust a sword through
+the body of Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and
+extinguished the flames and that out of the wound
+flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a dove.
+
+_Question_. Is that all we know about Polycarp?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, with the exception of a few more
+like incidents.
+
+_Question_. Do we know that Polycarp ever met
+St. John?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; Eusebius says so.
+
+_Question_. Are we absolutely certain that he ever
+lived?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, or Eusebius could not have written
+about him.
+
+_Question_. Do we know anything of the character
+of Eusebius?
+
+419
+
+_Answer_. Yes; we know that he was untruthful
+only when he wished to do good. But God can use
+even the dishonest. Other books have to be sub-
+stantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of
+God, that he can establish the inspiration of the Bible
+by the most untruthful witnesses. If God's witnesses
+were honest, anybody could believe, and what be-
+comes of faith, one of the greatest virtues?
+
+_Question_. Is the New Testament now the same as
+it was in the days of the early fathers?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not. Many books now thrown
+out, and not esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed
+divine by Polycarp and Irenaeus and Clement and
+many of the early churches. These books are now
+called "apocryphal."
+
+_Question_. Have you not the same witnesses in
+favor of their authenticity, that you have in favor of
+the gospels?
+
+_Answer_. Precisely the same. Except that they
+were thrown out.
+
+_Question_. Why were they thrown out?
+
+_Answer_. Because the Catholic Church did not es-
+teem them inspired.
+
+_Question_. Did the Catholics decide for us which
+are the true gospels and which are the true epistles?
+
+420
+
+_Answer_. Yes. The Catholic Church was then the
+only church, and consequently must have been the
+true church.
+
+_Question_. How did the Catholic Church select the
+true books?
+
+_Answer_. Councils were called, and votes were
+taken, very much as we now pass resolutions in
+political meetings.
+
+_Question_. Was the Catholic Church infallible then?
+
+_Answer_. It was then, but it is not now.
+
+_Question_. If the Catholic Church at that time
+had thrown out the book of Revelation, would it
+now be our duty to believe that book to have been
+inspired?
+
+_Answer_. No, I suppose not.
+
+_Question_. Is it not true that some of these books
+were adopted by exceedingly small majorities?
+
+_Answer_. It is.
+
+_Question_. If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to
+the Romans, and the book of Revelation had been
+thrown out, could a man now be saved who honestly
+believes the rest of the books?
+
+_Answer_. This is doubtful.
+
+_Question_. Were the men who picked out the in-
+spired books inspired?
+
+421
+
+_Answer_. We cannot tell, but the probability is
+that they were.
+
+_Question_. Do we know that they picked out the
+right ones?
+
+_Answer_. Well, not exactly, but we believe that
+they did.
+
+_Question_. Are we certain that some of the books
+that were thrown out were not inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Well, the only way to tell is to read
+them carefully.
+
+_Question_. If upon reading these apocryphal books
+a man concludes that they are not inspired, will he be
+damned for that reason?
+
+_Answer_. No. Certainly not.
+
+_Question_. If he concludes that some of them are
+inspired, and believes them, will he then be damned
+for that belief?
+
+_Answer_. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for
+believing too much.
+
+_Question_. Does the fact that the books now com-
+prising the New Testament were picked out by the
+Catholic Church prevent their being examined now
+by an honest man, as they were examined at the time
+they were picked out?
+
+422
+
+_Answer_. No; not if the man comes to the con-
+clusion that they are inspired.
+
+_Question_. Does the fact that the Catholic Church
+picked them out and declared them to be inspired,
+render it a crime to examine them precisely as you
+would examine the books that the Catholic Church
+threw out and declared were not inspired?
+
+_Answer_. I think it does.
+
+_Question_. At the time the council was held in which
+it was determined which of the books of the New
+Testament are inspired, a respectable minority voted
+against some that were finally decided to be inspired.
+If they were honest in the vote they gave, and died
+without changing their opinions, are they now in hell?
+
+_Answer_. Well, they ought to be.
+
+_Question_. If those who voted to leave the book
+of Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of
+Saint John out of the canon, believed honestly that
+these were not inspired books, how should they have
+voted?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose a man ought to vote as
+he honestly believes--except in matters of religion.
+
+_Question_. If the Catholic Church was not infal-
+lible, is the question still open as to what books are,
+and what are not, inspired?
+
+423
+
+_Answer_. I suppose the question is still open--
+but it would be dangerous to decide it.
+
+_Question_. If, then, I examine all the books again,
+and come to the conclusion that some that were
+thrown out were inspired, and some that were ac-
+cepted were not inspired, ought I to say so?
+
+_Answer_. Not if it is contrary to the faith of your
+father, or calculated to interfere with your own po-
+litical prospects.
+
+_Question_. Is it as great a sin to admit into the
+Bible books that are uninspired as to reject those
+that are inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Well, it is a crime to reject an inspired
+book, no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is
+for its inspiration, but it is not a crime to receive an
+uninspired book. God damns nobody for believing
+too much. An excess of credulity is simply to err in
+the direction of salvation.
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspira-
+tion of the New Testament--believes it to be entirely
+the work of uninspired men; and suppose he also be-
+lieves--but not from any evidence obtained in the New
+Testament--that Jesus Christ was the son of God, and
+that he made atonement for his soul, can he then be
+saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?
+
+424
+
+_Answer_. This has not yet been decided by
+our church, and I do not wish to venture an
+opinion.
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man denies the inspiration
+of the Scriptures; suppose that he also denies the
+divinity of Jesus Christ; and suppose, further, that
+he acts precisely as Christ is said to have acted;
+suppose he loves his enemies, prays for those who
+despitefully use him, and does all the good he pos-
+sibly can, is it your opinion that such a man will be
+saved?
+
+_Answer_. No, sir. There is "none other name
+"given under heaven and among men," whereby a
+sinner can be saved but the name of Christ.
+
+_Question_. Then it is your opinion that God
+would save a murderer who believed in Christ, and
+would damn another man, exactly like Christ, who
+failed to believe in him?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; because we have the blessed
+promise that, out of Christ, "our God is a consuming
+"fire."
+
+_Question_. Suppose a man read the Bible care-
+fully and honestly, and was not quite convinced that
+it was true, and that while examining the subject, he
+died; what then?
+
+425
+
+_Answer_. I do not believe that God would allow
+him to examine the matter in another world, or to
+make up his mind in heaven. Of course, he would
+eternally perish.
+
+_Question_. Could Christ now furnish evidence
+enough to convince every human being of the truth
+of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he could, because he is in-
+finite.
+
+_Question_. Are any miracles performed now?
+
+_Answer_. Oh, no!
+
+_Question_. Have we any testimony, except human
+testimony, to substantiate any miracle?
+
+_Answer_. Only human testimony.
+
+_Question_. Do all men give the same force to the
+same evidence?
+
+_Answer_. By no means.
+
+_Question_. Have all honest men who have exam-
+ined the Bible believed it to be inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they have. Infidels are not
+honest.
+
+_Question_. Could any additional evidence have
+been furnished?
+
+_Answer_. With perfect ease.
+
+_Question_. Would God allow a soul to suffer
+
+426
+
+eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the
+truth of his Bible?
+
+_Answer_. God has furnished plenty of evidence,
+and altogether more than was really necessary. We
+should read the Bible in a believing spirit.
+
+_Question_. Are all parts of the inspired books
+equally true?
+
+_Answer_. Necessarily.
+
+_Question_. According to Saint Matthew, God
+promises to forgive all who will forgive others; not
+one word is said about believing in Christ, or believ-
+ing in the miracles, or in any Bible; did Matthew tell
+the truth?
+
+_Answer_. The Bible must be taken as a whole;
+and if other conditions are added somewhere else,
+then you must comply with those other conditions.
+Matthew may not have stated all the conditions.
+
+_Question_. I find in another part of the New
+Testament, that a young man came to Christ and
+asked him what was necessary for him to do in order
+that he might inherit eternal life. Christ did not tell
+him that he must believe the Bible, or that he must
+believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbath-
+day; was Christ honest with that young man?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose he was.
+
+427
+
+_Question_. You will also recollect that Zaccheus
+said to Christ, that where he had wronged any man
+he had made restitution, and further, that half his
+goods he had given to the poor; and you will re-
+member that Christ said to Zaccheus: "This day
+"hath salvation come to thy house." Why did not
+Christ tell Zaccheus that he "must be born again;"
+that he must "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ"?
+
+_Answer_. Of course there are mysteries in our
+holy religion that only those who have been "born
+"again" can understand. You must remember that
+"the carnal mind is enmity with God."
+
+_Question_. Is it not strange that Christ, in his Ser-
+mon on the Mount, did not speak of "regeneration,"
+or of the "scheme of salvation"?
+
+_Answer_. Well, it may be.
+
+_Question_. Can a man be saved now by living
+exactly in accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?
+
+_Answer_. He can not.
+
+_Question_. Would then a man, by following the
+course of conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon
+on the Mount, lose his soul?
+
+_Answer_. He most certainly would, because there
+is not one word in the Sermon on the Mount about
+believing on the Lord Jesus Christ; not one word
+
+428
+
+about believing in the Bible; not one word about the
+"atonement;" not one word about "regeneration."
+So that, if the Presbyterian Church is right, it is abso-
+lutely certain that a man might follow the teachings
+of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in accordance
+with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the
+eternal condemnation of God. But we must remem-
+ber that the Sermon on the Mount was preached be-
+fore Christianity existed. Christ was talking to Jews.
+
+_Question_. Did Christ write anything himself, in
+the New Testament?
+
+_Answer_. Not a word.
+
+_Question_. Did he tell any of his disciples to write
+any of his words?
+
+_Answer_. There is no account of it, if he did.
+
+_Question_. Do we know whether any of the dis-
+ciples wrote anything?
+
+_Answer_. Of course they did.
+
+_Question_. How do you know?
+
+_Answer_. Because the gospels bear their names.
+
+_Question_. Are you satisfied that Christ was abso-
+lutely God?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was. We believe that
+Christ and God and the Holy Ghost are all the same,
+that the three form one, and that each one is three.
+
+429
+
+_Question_. Was Christ the God of the universe at
+the time of his birth?
+
+_Answer_. He certainly was.
+
+_Question_. Was he the infinite God, creator
+and controller of the entire universe, before he was
+born?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was. This is the mystery
+of "God manifest in the flesh." The infidels have
+pretended that he was like any other child, and was
+in fact supported by Nature instead of being the
+supporter of Nature. They have insisted that like
+other children, he had to be cared for by his mother.
+Of course he appeared to be cared for by his mother.
+It was a part of the plan that in all respects he should
+appear to be like other children.
+
+_Question_. Did he know just as much before he
+was born as after?
+
+_Answer_. If he was God of course he did.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for the fact that
+Saint Luke tells us, in the last verse of the second
+chapter of his gospel, that "Jesus increased in wis-
+"dom and stature"?
+
+_Answer_. That I presume is a figure of speech;
+because, if he was God, he certainly could not have
+increased in wisdom. The physical part of him could
+
+430
+
+increase in stature, but the intellectual part must have
+been infinite all the time.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?
+
+_Answer_. No; I believe what Luke said. If it
+appears untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is
+figurative or symbolical.
+
+_Question_. Did I understand you to say that Christ
+was actually God?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he was.
+
+_Question_. Then why did Luke say in the same
+verse of the same chapter that "Jesus increased in
+"favor with God"?
+
+_Answer_. I dare you to go into a room by your-
+self and read the fourteenth chapter of Saint John!
+
+_Question_. Is it necessary to understand the Bible
+in order to be saved?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not; it is only necessary that
+you believe it.
+
+_Question_. Is it necessary to believe all the
+miracles?
+
+_Answer_. It may not be necessary, but as it is im-
+possible to tell which ones can safely be left out, you
+had better believe them all.
+
+_Question_. Then you regard belief as the safe
+way?
+
+431
+
+_Answer_. Of course it is better to be fooled in this
+world than to be damned in the next.
+
+_Question_. Do you think that there are any cruel-
+ties on God's part recorded in the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. At first flush, many things done by God
+himself, as well as by his prophets, appear to be
+cruel; but if we examine them closely, we will find
+them to be exactly the opposite.
+
+_Question_. How do you explain the story of Elisha
+and the children,--where the two she-bears destroyed
+forty-two children on account of their impudence?
+
+_Answer_. This miracle, in my judgment, estab-
+lishes two things: 1. That children should be polite
+to ministers, and 2. That God is kind to animals--
+"giving them their meat in due season." These
+bears have been great educators--they are the
+foundation of the respect entertained by the young
+for theologians. No child ever sees a minister now
+without thinking of a bear.
+
+_Question_. What do you think of the story of
+Daniel--you no doubt remember it? Some men
+told the king that Daniel was praying contrary to
+law, and thereupon Daniel was cast into a den of
+lions; but the lions could not touch him, their
+mouths having been shut by angels. The next
+
+432
+
+morning, the king, finding that Daniel was still
+intact, had him taken out; and then, for the purpose
+of gratifying Daniels God, the king had all the men
+who had made the complaint against Daniel, and
+their wives and their little children, brought and cast
+into the lions' den. According to the account, the
+lions were so hungry that they caught these wives
+and children as they dropped, and broke all their
+bones in pieces before they had even touched the
+ground. Is it not wonderful that God failed to pro-
+tect these innocent wives and children?
+
+_Answer_. These wives and children were heathen;
+they were totally depraved. And besides, they were
+used as witnesses. The fact that they were devoured
+with such quickness shows that the lions were
+hungry. Had it not been for this, infidels would
+have accounted for the safety of Daniel by saying
+that the lions had been fed.
+
+_Question_. Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach
+and Abednego were cast "into a burning fiery furnace
+"heated one seven times hotter than it was wont to
+"be heated," and that they had on "their coats, their
+"hosen and their hats," and that when they came
+out "not a hair of their heads was singed, nor was
+"the smell of fire upon their garments"?
+
+433
+
+_Answer_. The evidence of this miracle is exceed-
+ingly satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of
+Nebuchadnezzar.
+
+_Question_. How do you know he was converted?
+
+_Answer_. Because immediately after the miracle
+the king issued a decree that "every people, nation
+"and language that spoke anything amiss against
+"the God of Shadrach and Company, should be cut
+"in pieces." This decree shows that he had become
+a true disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.
+
+_Question_. If God in those days preserved from
+the fury of the fire men who were true to him and
+would not deny his name, why is it that he has failed
+to protect thousands of martyrs since that time?
+
+_Answer_. This is one of the divine mysteries.
+God has in many instances allowed his enemies to
+kill his friends. I suppose this was allowed for the
+good of his enemies, that the heroism of the mar-
+tyrs might convert them.
+
+_Question_. Do you believe all the miracles?
+
+_Answer_. I believe them all, because I believe the
+Bible to be inspired.
+
+_Question_. What makes you think it is inspired?
+
+_Answer_. I have never seen anybody who knew
+it was not; besides, my father and mother believed it.
+
+434
+
+_Question_. Have you any other reasons for be-
+lieving it to be inspired?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; there are more copies of the Bible
+printed than of any other book; and it is printed in
+more languages. And besides, it would be impossible
+to get along without it.
+
+_Question_. Why could we not get along without it?
+
+_Answer_. We would have nothing to swear wit-
+nesses by; no book in which to keep the family
+record; nothing for the centre-table, and nothing for
+a mother to give her son. No nation can be civilized
+without the Bible.
+
+_Question_. Did God always know that a Bible was
+necessary to civilize a country?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly he did.
+
+_Question_. Why did he not give a Bible to
+the Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and the
+Romans?
+
+_Answer_. It is astonishing what perfect fools in-
+fidels are.
+
+_Question_. Why do you call infidels "fools"?
+
+_Answer_. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the
+gospel according to Matthew the following: "Who-
+"soever shall say 'Thou fool!' shall be in danger of
+"hell fire."
+
+435
+
+_Question_. Have I the right to read the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Yes. You not only have the right, but
+it is your duty.
+
+_Question_. In reading the Bible the words make
+certain impressions on my mind. These impressions
+depend upon my brain,--upon my intelligence. Is
+not this true?
+
+_Answer_. Of course, when you read the Bible, im-
+pressions are made upon your mind.
+
+_Question_. Can I control these impressions?
+
+_Answer_. I do not think you can, as long as you
+remain in a sinful state.
+
+_Question_. How am I to get out of this sinful state?
+
+_Answer_. You must believe on the Lord Jesus
+Christ, and you must read the Bible in a prayerful
+spirit and with a believing heart.
+
+_Question_. Suppose that doubts force themselves
+upon my mind?
+
+_Answer_. Then you will know that you are a sin-
+ner, and that you are depraved.
+
+_Question_. If I have the right to read the Bible,
+have I the right to try to understand it?
+
+_Answer_. Most assuredly.
+
+_Question_. Do you admit that I have the right to
+reason about it and to investigate it?
+
+436
+
+_Answer_. Yes; I admit that. Of course you can-
+not help reasoning about what you read.
+
+_Question_. Does the right to read a book include
+the right to give your opinion as to the truth of what
+the book contains?
+
+_Answer_. Of course,--if the book is not inspired.
+Infidels hate the Bible because it is inspired, and
+Christians know that it is inspired because infidels
+say that it is not.
+
+_Question_. Have I the right to decide for myself
+whether or not the book is inspired?
+
+_Answer_. You have no right to deny the truth of
+God's Holy Word.
+
+_Question_. Is God the author of all books?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly not.
+
+_Question_. Have I the right to say that God did
+not write the Koran?
+
+_Answer_. Yes.
+
+_Question_. Why?
+
+_Answer_. Because the Koran was written by an
+impostor.
+
+_Question_. How do you know?
+
+_Answer_. My reason tells me so.
+
+_Question_. Have you the right to be guided by
+your reason?
+
+437
+
+_Answer_. I must be.
+
+_Question_. Have you the same right to follow your
+reason after reading the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. No. The Bible is the standard of reason.
+The Bible is not to be judged or corrected by your
+reason. Your reason is to be weighed and measured
+by the Bible. The Bible is different from other
+books and must not be read in the same critical spirit,
+nor judged by the same standard.
+
+_Question_. What did God give us reason for?
+
+_Answer_. So that we might investigate other
+religions, and examine other so-called sacred books.
+
+_Question_. If a man honestly thinks that the Bible
+is not inspired, what should he say?
+
+_Answer_. He should admit that he is mistaken.
+
+_Question_. When he thinks he is right?
+
+_Answer_. Yes. The Bible is different from other
+books. It is the master of reason. You read the
+Bible, not to see if that is wrong, but to see
+whether your reason is right. It is the only book
+about which a man has no right to reason. He must
+believe. The Bible is addressed, not to the reason,
+but to the ears: "He that hath ears to hear, let
+"him hear."
+
+_Question_. Do you think we have the right to tell
+
+438
+
+what the Bible means--what ideas God intended to
+convey, or has conveyed to us, through the medium
+of the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. Well, I suppose you have that right.
+Yes, that must be your duty. You certainly ought
+to tell others what God has said to you.
+
+_Question_. Do all men get the same ideas from
+the Bible?
+
+_Answer_. No.
+
+_Question_. How do you account for that?
+
+_Answer_. Because all men are not alike; they
+differ in intellect, in education, and in experience.
+
+_Question_. Who has the right to decide as to the
+real ideas that God intended to convey?
+
+_Answer_. I am a Protestant, and believe in the
+right of private judgment. Whoever does not is a
+Catholic. Each man must be his own judge, but God
+will hold him responsible.
+
+_Question_. Does God believe in the right of private
+judgment?
+
+_Answer_. Of course he does.
+
+_Question_. Is he willing that I should exercise my
+judgment in deciding whether the Bible is inspired or
+not?
+
+_Answer_. No. He believes in the exercise of
+
+439
+
+private judgment only in the examination and rejec-
+tion of other books than the Bible.
+
+_Question_. Is he a Catholic?
+
+_Answer_. I cannot answer blasphemy! Let me
+tell you that God will "laugh at your calamity, and
+"will mock when your fear cometh." You will be
+accursed.
+
+_Question_. Why do you curse infidels?
+
+_Answer_. Because I am a Christian.
+
+_Question_. Did not Christ say that we ought to
+"bless those who curse us," and that we should
+"love our enemies"?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, but he cursed the Pharisees and
+called them "hypocrites" and "vipers."
+
+_Question_. How do you account for that?
+
+_Answer_. It simply shows the difference between
+theory and practice.
+
+_Question_. What do you consider the best way to
+answer infidels.
+
+_Answer_. The old way is the best. You should
+say that their arguments are ancient, and have been
+answered over and over again. If this does not
+satisfy your hearers, then you should attack the
+character of the infidel--then that of his parents--
+then that of his children.
+
+440
+
+_Question_. Suppose that the infidel is a good man,
+how will you answer him then?
+
+_Answer_. But an infidel cannot be a good man.
+Even if he is, it is better that he should lose his
+reputation, than that thousands should lose their
+souls. We know that all infidels are vile and infa-
+mous. We may not have the evidence, but we know
+that it exists.
+
+_Question_. How should infidels be treated? Should
+Christians try to convert them?
+
+_Answer_. Christians should have nothing to do
+with infidels. It is not safe even to converse with
+them. They are always talking about reason, and
+facts, and experience. They are filled with sophistry
+and should be avoided.
+
+_Question_. Should Christians pray for the con-
+version of infidels?
+
+_Answer_. Yes; but such prayers should be made
+in public and the name of the infidel should be given
+and his vile and hideous heart portrayed so that the
+young may be warned.
+
+_Question_. Whom do you regard as infidels?
+
+_Answer_. The scientists--the geologists, the as-
+tronomers, the naturalists, the philosophers. No one
+can overestimate the evil that has been wrought
+
+441
+
+by Laplace, Humboldt, Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel,
+Renan, Emerson, Strauss, Bikhner, Tyndall, and
+their wretched followers. These men pretended to
+know more than Moses and the prophets. They
+were "dogs baying at the moon." They were
+"wolves" and "fools." They tried to "assassinate
+"God," and worse than all, they actually laughed
+at the clergy,
+
+_Question_. Do you think they did, and are doing
+great harm?
+
+_Answer_. Certainly. Of what use are all the
+sciences, if you lose your own soul? People in hell
+will care nothing about education. The rich man
+said nothing about science, he wanted water.
+Neither will they care about books and theories
+in heaven. If a man is perfectly happy, it makes
+no difference how ignorant he is.
+
+_Question_. But how can he answer these scientists?
+
+_Answer_. Well, my advice is to let their argu-
+ments alone. Of course, you will deny all their
+facts; but the most effective way is to attack their
+character.
+
+_Question_. But suppose they are good men,--
+what then?
+
+_Answer_. The better they are, the worse they are.
+
+442
+
+We cannot admit that the infidel is really good. He
+may appear to be good, and it is our duty to strip
+the mask of appearance from the face of unbelief. If
+a man is not a Christian, he is totally depraved, and
+why should we hesitate to make a misstatement
+about a man whom God is going to make miserable
+forever?
+
+_Question_. Are we not commanded to love our
+enemies?
+
+_Answer_. Yes, but not the enemies of God.
+
+_Question_. Do you fear the final triumph of infi-
+delity?
+
+_Answer_. No. We have no fear. We believe
+that the Bible can be revised often enough to agree
+with anything that may really be necessary to the
+preservation of the church. We can always rely
+upon revision. Let me tell you that the Bible is the
+most peculiar of books. At the time God inspired his
+holy prophets to write it, he knew exactly what the
+discoveries and demonstrations of the future would
+be, and he wrote his Bible in such a way that the
+words could always be interpreted in accordance with
+the intelligence of each age, and so that the words
+used are capable of several meanings, so that, no
+matter what may hereafter be discovered, the Bible
+
+443
+
+will be found to agree with it,--for the reason that
+the knowledge of Hebrew will grow in the exact
+proportion that discoveries are made in other depart-
+ments of knowledge. You will therefore see, that all
+efforts of infidelity to destroy the Bible will simply
+result in giving a better translation.
+
+_Question_. What do you consider is the strongest
+argument in favor of the inspiration of the Scrip-
+tures?
+
+_Answer_. The dying words of Christians.
+
+_Question_. What do you consider the strongest
+argument against the truth of infidelity?
+
+_Answer_. The dying words of infidels. You know
+how terrible were the death-bed scenes of Hume,
+Voltaire, Paine and Hobbes, as described by hundreds
+of persons who were not present; while all Christians
+have died with the utmost serenity, and with their
+last words have testified to the sustaining power of
+faith in the goodness of God.
+
+_Question_. What were the last words of Jesus
+Christ?
+
+_Answer_. "My God, my God, why hast thou for-
+"saken me?"
+
+
+
+
+A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.
+
+
+_"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and
+authority of reason, is like administering
+medicine to the dead."--Thomas Paine._
+
+
+Peoria, October 8, 1877.
+
+To the Editor of the N Y. Observer:
+
+Sir: Last June in San Francisco, I offered a
+thousand dollars in gold--not as a wager, but as a
+gift--to any one who would substantiate the absurd
+story that Thomas Paine died in agony and fear,
+frightened by the clanking chains of devils. I also
+offered the same amount to any minister who would
+prove that Voltaire did not pass away as serenely as
+the coming of the dawn. Afterward I was informed
+that you had accepted the offer, and had called upon
+me to deposit the money. Acting upon this inform-
+ation, I sent you the following letter:
+
+Peoria, Ill., August 31st, 1877.
+
+To the Editor of the New York Observer:
+
+I have been informed that you accepted, in your
+paper, an offer made by me to any clergyman in
+San Francisco. That offer was, that I would pay
+
+448
+
+one thousand dollars in gold to any minister in that
+city who would prove that Thomas Paine died in
+terror because of religious opinions he had ex-
+pressed, or that Voltaire did not pass away serenely
+as the coming of the dawn.
+
+For many years religious journals and ministers
+have been circulating certain pretended accounts of
+the frightful agonies endured by Paine and Voltaire
+when dying; that these great men at the moment of
+death were terrified because they had given their
+honest opinions upon the subject of religion to their
+fellow-men. The imagination of the religious world
+has been taxed to the utmost in inventing absurd
+and infamous accounts of the last moments of these
+intellectual giants. Every Sunday school paper,
+thousands of idiotic tracts, and countless stupidities
+called sermons, have been filled with these calumnies.
+
+Paine and Voltaire both believed in God--both
+hoped for immortality--both believed in special
+providence. But both denied the inspiration of the
+Scriptures--both denied the divinity of Jesus Christ.
+While theologians most cheerfully admit that most
+murderers die without fear, they deny the possibility
+of any man who has expressed his disbelief in the
+inspiration of the Bible dying except in an agony of
+terror. These stories are used in revivals and in
+
+449
+
+Sunday schools, and have long been considered of
+great value.
+
+I am anxious that these slanders shall cease. I
+am desirous of seeing justice done, even at this late
+day, to the dead.
+
+For the purpose of ascertaining the evidence upon
+which these death-bed accounts really rest, I make
+to you the following proposition:--
+
+First.--As to Thomas Paine: I will deposit with
+the First National Bank of Peoria, Illinois, one thou-
+sand dollars in gold, upon the following conditions:
+This money shall be subject to your order when
+you shall, in the manner hereinafter provided, sub-
+stantiate that Thomas Paine admitted the Bible to be
+an inspired book, or that he recanted his Infidel
+opinions--or that he died regretting that he had dis-
+believed the Bible--or that he died calling upon
+Jesus Christ in any religious sense whatever.
+
+In order that a tribunal may be created to try this
+question, you may select one man, I will select
+another, and the two thus chosen shall select a third,
+and any two of the three may decide the matter.
+
+As there will be certain costs and expenditures on
+both sides, such costs and expenditures shall be paid
+by the defeated party.
+
+In addition to the one thousand dollars in gold, I
+
+450
+
+will deposit a bond with good and sufficient security
+in the sum of two thousand dollars, conditioned for
+the payment of all costs in case I am defeated. I
+shall require of you a like bond.
+
+From the date of accepting this offer you may
+have ninety days to collect and present your testi-
+mony, giving me notice of time and place of taking
+depositions. I shall have a like time to take evi-
+dence upon my side, giving you like notice, and you
+shall then have thirty days to take further testimony
+in reply to what I may offer. The case shall then
+be argued before the persons chosen; and their
+decisions shall be final as to us.
+
+If the arbitrator chosen by me shall die, I shall
+have the right to choose another. You shall have
+the same right. If the third one, chosen by our two,
+shall die, the two shall choose another; and all va-
+cancies, from whatever cause, shall be filled upon the
+same principle.
+
+The arbitrators shall sit when and where a major-
+ity shall determine, and shall have full power to pass
+upon all questions arising as to competency of
+evidence, and upon all subjects.
+
+_Second_.--As to Voltaire: I make the same prop-
+osition, if you will substantiate that Voltaire died
+expressing remorse or showing in any way that he
+
+451
+
+was in mental agony because he had attacked Catholi-
+cism--or because he had denied the inspiration of the
+Bible--or because he had denied the divinity of Christ.
+
+I make these propositions because I want you
+to stop slandering the dead.
+
+If the propositions do not suit you in any particu-
+lar, please state your objections, and I will modify
+them in any way consistent with the object in view.
+
+If Paine and Voltaire died filled with childish and
+silly fear, I want to know it, and I want the world to
+know it. On the other hand, if the believers in
+superstition have made and circulated these cruel
+slanders concerning the mighty dead, I want the
+world to know that.
+
+As soon as you notify me of the acceptance of
+these propositions I will send you the certificate of
+the bank that the money has been deposited upon
+the foregoing conditions, together with copies of
+bonds for costs. Yours truly,
+
+R. G. Ingersoll.
+
+In your paper of September 27, 1877, you acknowl-
+edge the receipt of the foregoing letter, and after
+giving an outline of its contents, say: "As not one
+of the affirmations, in the form stated in this letter,
+was contained in the offer we made, we have no
+occasion to substantiate them. But we are prepared
+
+452
+
+to produce the evidence of the truth of our own
+statement, and even to go further; to show not only
+that Tom Paine 'died a drunken, cowardly, and
+beastly death,' but that for many years previous, and
+up to that event he lived a drunken and beastly life."
+In order to refresh your memory as to what you
+had published, I call your attention to the following,
+which appeared in the N. Y. Observer, July 19, 1877:
+"Put Down the Money.
+
+"Col. Bob Ingersoll, in a speech full of ribaldry
+and blasphemy, made in San Francisco recently, said:
+"I will give $1,000 in gold coin to any clergyman
+who can substantiate that the death of Voltaire was
+not as peaceful as the dawn; and of Tom Paine whom
+they assert died in fear and agony, frightened by the
+clanking chains of devils--in fact frightened to death
+by God. I will give $1,000 likewise to any one who
+can substantiate this 'absurd story'--a story without
+a word of truth in it."
+
+"We have published the testimony, and the wit-
+nesses are on hand to prove that Tom Paine died a
+drunken, cowardly and beastly death. Let the Colo-
+nel deposit the money with any honest man, and the
+absurd story, as he terms it, shall be shown to be an
+ower true tale. But he wont do it. His talk is Infi-
+del 'buncombe' and nothing more."
+
+453
+
+On the 31st of August I sent you my letter, and
+on the 27th of September you say in your paper:
+"As not one of the affirmations in the form stated
+in this letter was contained in the offer we made, we
+have no occasion to substantiate them."
+
+What were the affirmations contained in the offer
+you made? I had offered a thousand dollars in gold
+to any one who would substantiate "the absurd story"
+that Thomas Paine died in fear and agony,frightened
+by the clanking chains of devils--in fact, frightened to
+death by God.
+
+In response to this offer you said: "Let the Colo-
+nel deposit the money with an honest man and the
+'absurd story' as he terms it, shall be shown to be
+an 'ower true tale.' But he won't do it. His talk
+is infidel 'buncombe' and nothing more."
+
+Did you not offer to prove that Paine died in fear
+and agony, frightened by the clanking chains of
+devils? Did you not ask me to deposit the money
+that you might prove the "absurd story" to be an
+"ower true tale" and obtain the money? Did you
+not in your paper of the twenty-seventh of September
+in effect deny that you had offered to prove this
+"absurd story"? As soon as I offered to deposit
+the gold and give bonds besides to cover costs, did
+you not publish a falsehood?
+
+454
+
+You have eaten your own words, and, for my
+part, I would rather have dined with Ezekiel than
+with you.
+
+You have not met the issue. You have know-
+ingly avoided it. The question was not as to the
+personal habits of Paine. The real question was
+and is, whether Paine was filled with fear and horror
+at the time of his death on account of his religious
+opinions. That is the question. You avoid this.
+In effect, you abandon that charge and make others.
+
+To you belongs the honor of having made the
+most cruel and infamous charges against Thomas
+Paine that have ever been made. Of what you
+have said you cannot prove the truth of one word.
+
+You say that Thomas Paine died a drunken,
+cowardly and beastly death.
+
+I pronounce this charge to be a cowardly and
+beastly falsehood.
+
+Have you any evidence that he was in a drunken
+condition when he died?
+
+What did he say or do of a cowardly character
+just before, or at about the time of his death?
+
+In what way was his death cowardly? You must
+answer these questions, and give your proof, or all
+honest men will hold you in abhorrence. You have
+made these charges. The man against whom you
+
+Vindication of thomas paine.
+
+455
+
+make them is dead. He cannot answer you. I
+can. He cannot compel you to produce your testi-
+mony, or admit by your silence that you have
+cruelly slandered the defenceless dead. I can and I
+will. You say that his death was cowardly. In
+what respect? Was it cowardly in him to hold the
+Thirty-Nine Articles in contempt? Was it cowardly
+not to call on your Lord? Was it cowardly not to
+be afraid? You say that his death was beastly.
+Again I ask, in what respect? Was it beastly to
+submit to the inevitable with tranquillity? Was it
+beastly to look with composure upon the approach
+of death? Was it beastly to die without a com-
+plaint, without a murmur--to pass from life without
+a fear?
+
+Did Thomas Paine Recant?
+
+Mr. Paine had prophesied that fanatics would
+crawl and cringe around him during his last mo-
+ments. He believed that they would put a lie in
+the mouth of Death.
+
+When the shadow of the coming dissolution was
+upon him, two clergymen, Messrs. Milledollar and
+Cunningham, called to annoy the dying man. Mr.
+Cunningham had the politeness to say, "You have
+now a full view of death you cannot live long, and
+whosoever does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ
+
+456
+
+will asuredly be damned." Mr. Paine replied, "Let
+me have none of your popish stuff. Get away with
+you. Good morning."
+
+On another occasion a Methodist minister ob-
+truded himself when Willet Hicks was present.
+This minister declared to Mr. Paine "that unless he
+repented of his unbelief he would be damned."
+Paine, although at the door of death, rose in his bed
+and indignantly requested the clergyman to leave
+his room. On another occasion, two brothers by
+the name of Pigott, sought to convert him. He was
+displeased and requested their departure. After-
+ward Thomas Nixon and Captain Daniel Pelton
+visited him for the express purpose of ascertaining
+whether he had, in any manner, changed his relig-
+ious opinions. They were assured by the dying
+man that he still held the principles he had expressed
+in his writings.
+
+Afterward, these gentlemen hearing that William
+Cobbett was about to write a life of Paine, sent him
+the following note:
+
+New York, April 24, 1818.
+
+"Sir: We have been informed that you have a de-
+sign to write a history of the life and writings of
+Thomas Paine. If you have been furnished with
+materials in respect to his religious opinions, or
+
+457
+
+rather of his recantation of his former opinions before
+his death, all you have heard of his recanting is false.
+Being aware that such reports would be raised after
+his death by fanatics who infested his house at the
+time it was expected he would die, we, the subscrib-
+ers, intimate acquaintances of Thomas Paine since
+the year 1776, went to his house. He was sitting
+up in a chair, and apparently in full vigor and use of
+all his mental faculties. We interrogated him upon
+his religious opinions, and if he had changed his
+mind, or repented of anything he had said or wrote
+on that subject. He answered, "Not at all," and
+appeared rather offended at our supposition that any
+change should take place in his mind. We took
+down in writing the questions put to him and his
+answers thereto before a number of persons then in
+his room, among whom were his doctor, Mrs.
+Bonneville, &c. This paper is mislaid and cannot
+be found at present, but the above is the substance
+which can be attested by many living witnesses."
+
+Thomas Nixon.
+
+Daniel Pelton.
+
+Mr. Jarvis, the artist, saw Mr. Paine one or two
+days before his death. To Mr. Jarvis he expressed
+his belief in his written opinions upon the subject of
+religion. B. F. Haskin, an attorney of the city of
+
+458
+
+New York, also visited him and inquired as to his
+religious opinions. Paine was then upon the thresh-
+old of death, but he did not tremble. He was not a
+coward. He expressed his firm and unshaken belief
+in the religious ideas he had given to the world.
+
+Dr. Manley was with him when he spoke his last
+words. Dr. Manley asked the dying man if he did
+not wish to believe that Jesus was the Son of God,
+and the dying philosopher answered: "I have no
+wish to believe on that subject." Amasa Woodsworth
+
+sat up with Thomas Paine the night before his
+death. In 1839 Gilbert Vale hearing that Mr.
+Woodsworth was living in or near Boston, visited
+him for the purpose of getting his statement. The
+statement was published in the Beacon of June 5,
+1839, while thousands who had been acquainted with
+Mr. Paine were living.
+
+The following is the article referred to.
+
+"We have just returned from Boston. One ob-
+ject of our visit to that city, was to see a Mr. Amasa
+Woodsworth, an engineer, now retired in a hand-
+some cottage and garden at East Cambridge, Boston.
+This gentleman owned the house occupied by Paine
+at his death--while he lived next door. As an act
+of kindness Mr. Woodsworth visited Mr. Paine every
+day for six weeks before his death. He frequently
+
+459
+
+sat up with him, and did so on the last two nights of
+his life. He was always there with Dr. Manley, the
+physician, and assisted in removing Mr. Paine while
+his bed was prepared. He was present when Dr.
+Manley asked Mr. Paine "if he wished to believe
+that Jesus Christ was the Son of God," and he de-
+scribes Mr. Paine's answer as animated. He says
+that lying on his back he used some action and with
+much emphasis, replied, "I have no wish to believe
+on that subject." He lived some time after this, but
+was not known to speak, for he died tranquilly. He
+accounts for the insinuating style of Dr. Manley's
+letter, by stating that that gentleman just after its
+publication joined a church. He informs us that he
+has openly reproved the doctor for the falsity con-
+tained in the spirit of that letter, boldly declaring be-
+fore Dr. Manley, who is yet living, that nothing
+which he saw justified the insinuations. Mr. Woods-
+worth assures us that he neither heard nor saw any-
+thing to justify the belief of any mental change in
+the opinions of Mr. Paine previous to his death; but
+that being very ill and in pain chiefly arising from
+the skin being removed in some parts by long lying,
+he was generally too uneasy to enjoy conversation
+on abstract subjects. This, then, is the best evidence
+that can be procured on this subject, and we publish
+
+460
+
+it while the contravening parties are yet alive, and
+with the authority of Mr. Woodsworth.
+
+Gilbert Vale.
+
+A few weeks ago I received the following letter
+which confirms the statement of Mr. Vale:
+
+Near Stockton, Cal., Green-
+wood Cottage, July 9, 1877.
+
+Col. Ingersoll: In 1842 I talked with a gentle-
+man in Boston. I have forgotten his name; but he was
+then an engineer of the Charleston navy yard. I am
+thus particular so that you can find his name on the
+books. He told me that he nursed Thomas Paine
+in his last illness, and closed his eyes when dead. I
+asked him if he recanted and called upon God to
+save him. He replied, "No. He died as he had
+taught. He had a sore upon his side and when we
+turned him it was very painful and he would cry out
+'O God!' or something like that." "But," said
+the narrator, "that was nothing, for he believed in a
+God." I told him that I had often heard it asserted
+from the pulpit that Mr. Paine had recanted in his
+last moments. The gentleman said that it was not
+true, and he appeared to be an intelligent, truthful
+man. With respect, I remain, &c.,
+
+Philip Graves, M. D.
+
+461
+
+The next witness is Willet Hicks, a Quaker
+preacher. He says that during the last illness of
+Mr. Paine he visited him almost daily, and that
+Paine died firmly convinced of the truth of the relig-
+ious opinions he had given to his fellow-men. It
+was to this same Willet Hicks that Paine applied for
+permission to be buried in the cemetery of the
+Quakers. Permission was refused. This refusal
+settles the question of recantation. If he had re-
+canted, of course there could have been no objection
+to his body being buried by the side of the best
+hypocrites on the earth.
+
+If Paine recanted why should he be denied "a
+little earth for charity"? Had he recanted, it
+would have been regarded as a vast and splendid
+triumph for the gospel. It would with much noise
+and pomp and ostentation have been heralded
+about the world.
+
+I received the following letter to-day. The
+writer is well know in this city, and is a man of
+high character:
+
+Peoria, Oct. 8th, 1877.
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll, Esteemed Friend: My
+parents were Friends (Quakers). My father died
+when I was very young. The elderly and middle-
+aged Friends visited at my mother's house. We
+
+462
+
+lived in the city of New York. Among the number
+I distinctly remember Elias Hicks, Willet Hicks,
+
+and a Mr.-Day, who was a bookseller in Pearl
+
+street. There were many others, whose names I
+do not now remember. The subject of the recanta-
+tion by Thomas Paine of his views about the Bible
+in his last illness, or at any other time, was dis-
+cussed by them in my presence at different times.
+I learned from them that some of them had attended
+upon Thomas Paine in his last sickness and minis-
+tered to his wants up to the time of his death.
+And upon the question of whether he did recant
+there was but one expression. They all said that
+he did not recant in any manner. I often heard
+them say they wished he had recanted. In fact,
+according to them, the nearer he approached death
+the more positive he appeared to be in his con-
+victions.
+
+These conversations were from 1820 to 1822. I
+was at that time from ten to twelve years old, but
+these conversations impressed themselves upon me
+because many thoughtless people then blamed the
+Society of Friends for their kindness to that "arch
+Infidel," Thomas Paine..
+
+Truly yours,
+
+A. C. Hankinson.
+
+463
+
+A few days ago I received the following letter:
+Albany, New York, Sept. 27, 1877.
+
+Dear Sir: It is over twenty years ago that pro-
+fessionally I made the acquaintance of John Hogeboom,
+
+a Justice of the Peace of the county of
+Rensselaer, New York. He was then over seventy
+years of age and had the reputation of being a man
+of candor and integrity. He was a great admirer of
+Paine. He told me that he was personally ac-
+quainted with him, and used to see him frequently
+during the last years of his life in the city of New
+York, where Hogeboom then resided. I asked him
+if there was any truth in the charge that Paine was
+in the habit of getting drunk. He said that it was
+utterly false; that he never heard of such a thing
+during the life-time of Mr. Paine, and did not believe
+any one else did. I asked him about the recantation
+of his religious opinions on his death-bed, and the
+revolting death-bed scenes that the world had heard
+so much about. He said there was no truth in
+them, that he had received his information from
+persons who attended Paine in his last illness, "and
+that he passed peacefully away, as we may say, in
+the sunshine of a great soul."...
+
+Yours truly,
+
+W. J. Hilton,
+
+464
+
+The witnesses by whom I substantiate the fact
+that Thomas Paine did not recant, and that he died
+holding the religious opinions he had published, are:
+First--Thomas Nixon, Captain Daniel Pelton,
+B. F. Haskin. These gentlemen visited him during
+his last illness for the purpose of ascertaining whether
+he had in any respect changed his views upon relig-
+ion. He told them that he had not.
+
+Second--James Cheetham. This man was the
+most malicious enemy Mr. Paine had, and yet he
+admits that "Thomas Paine died placidly, and al-
+most without a struggle." (See Life of Thomas
+Paine, by James Cheetham).
+
+Third--The ministers, Milledollar and Cunning-
+ham. These gentlemen told Mr. Paine that if he
+died without believing in the Lord Jesus Christ he
+would be damned, and Paine replied, "Let me have
+none of your popish stuff. Good morning." (See
+Sherwin's Life of Paine, p. 220).
+
+Fourth--Mrs. Hedden. She told these same
+preachers when they attempted to obtrude them-
+selves upon Mr. Paine again, that the attempt to
+convert Mr. Paine was useless--"that if God did not
+change his mind no human power could."
+
+Fifth--Andrew A. Dean. This man lived upon
+Paine's farm at New Rochelle, and corresponded
+
+465
+
+with him upon religious subjects. (See Paine's
+Theological Works, p. 308.)
+
+Sixth--Mr. Jarvis, the artist with whom Paine
+lived. He gives an account of an old lady coming
+to Paine and telling him that God Almighty had
+sent her to tell him that unless he repented and be-
+lieved in the blessed Savior, he would be damned.
+Paine replied that God would not send such a foolish
+old woman with such an impertinent message. (See
+Clio Rickman's Life of Paine.)
+
+Seventh--Wm. Carver, with whom Paine boarded.
+Mr. Carver said again and again that Paine did not
+recant. He knew him well, and had every opportun-
+ity of knowing. (See Life of Paine by Gilbert Vale.)
+
+Eighth--Dr. Manley, who attended him in his last
+sickness, and to whom Paine spoke his last words.
+Dr. Manley asked him if he did not wish to believe in
+Jesus Christ, and he replied, "I have no wish to
+believe on that subject."
+
+Ninth--Willet Hicks and Elias Hicks, who were
+with him frequently during his last sickness, and
+both of whom tried to persuade him to recant. Ac-
+cording to their testimony, Mr. Paine died as he had
+lived--a believer in God, and a friend of man.
+Willet Hicks was offered money to say something
+false against Thomas Paine. He was even offered
+
+466
+
+money to remain silent and allow others to slander
+the dead. Mr. Hicks, speaking of Thomas Paine,
+said: "He was a good man--an honest man."
+(Vale's Life of Paine.)
+
+Tenth--Amasa Woodsworth, who was with him
+every day for some six weeks immediately preceding
+his death, and sat up with him the last two nights of
+his life. This man declares that Paine did not recant
+and that he died tranquilly. The evidence of Mr.
+Woodsworth is conclusive.
+
+Eleventh--Thomas Paine himself. The will of
+Thomas Paine, written by himself, commences as
+follows:
+
+"The last will and testament of me, the subscriber,
+Thomas Paine, reposing confidence in my creator
+God, and in no other being, for I know of no other,
+nor believe in any other;" and closes in these words;
+"I have lived an honest and useful life to mankind;
+my time has been spent in doing good, and I die in
+perfect composure and resignation to the will of my
+creator God."
+
+Twelfth--If Thomas Paine recanted, why do you
+pursue him? If he recanted, he died substantially
+in your belief, for what reason then do you denounce
+his death as cowardly? If upon his death-bed he
+renounced the opinions he had published, the busi-
+
+467
+
+ness of defaming him should be done by Infidels, not
+by Christians.
+
+I ask you if it is honest to throw away the testi-
+mony of his friends--the evidence of fair and honor-
+able men--and take the putrid words of avowed and
+malignant enemies?
+
+When Thomas Paine was dying, he was infested
+by fanatics--by the snaky spies of bigotry. In the
+shadows of death were the unclean birds of prey
+waiting to tear with beak and claw the corpse of him
+who wrote the "Rights of Man." And there lurk-
+ing and crouching in the darkness were the jackals
+and hyenas of superstition ready to violate his grave.
+
+These birds of prey--these unclean beasts are the
+witnesses produced and relied upon by you.
+
+One by one the instruments of torture have been
+wrenched from the cruel clutch of the church, until
+within the armory of orthodoxy there remains but
+one weapon--Slander.
+
+Against the witnesses that I have produced you
+can bring just two--Mary Roscoe and Mary Hins-
+dale. The first is referred to in the memoir of
+Stephen Grellet. She had once been a servant in his
+house. Grellet tells what happened between this
+girl and Paine. According to this account Paine
+asked her if she had ever read any of his writings,
+
+468
+
+and on being told that she had read very little of
+them, he inquired what she thought of them, adding
+that from such an one as she he expected a correct
+answer.
+
+Let us examine this falsehood. Why would Paine
+expect a correct answer about his writings from one
+who had read very little of them? Does not such a
+statement devour itself? This young lady further
+said that the "Age of Reason" was put in her hands
+and that the more she read in it the more dark and
+distressed she felt, and that she threw the book into
+the fire. Whereupon Mr. Paine remarked, "I wish
+all had done as you did, for if the devil ever had any
+agency in any work, he had it in my writing that book."
+
+The next is Mary Hinsdale. She was a servant
+in the family of Willet Hicks. She, like Mary Ros-
+coe, was sent to carry some delicacy to Mr. Paine.
+To this young lady Paine, according to her account,
+said precisely the same that he did to Mary Roscoe,
+and she said the same thing to Mr. Paine.
+
+My own opinion is that Mary Roscoe and Mary
+Hinsdale are one and the same person, or the same
+story has been by mistake put in the mouth of both.
+
+It is not possible that the same conversation should
+have taken place between Paine and Mary Roscoe,
+and between him and Mary Hinsdale.
+
+469
+
+Mary Hinsdale lived with Willet Hicks and he
+pronounced her story a pious fraud and fabrication.
+He said that Thomas Paine never said any such
+thing to Mary Hinsdale. (See Vale's Life of
+Paine.)
+
+Another thing about this witness. A woman by
+the name of Mary Lockwood, a Hicksite Quaker,
+died. Mary Hinsdale met her brother about that
+time and told him that his sister had recanted, and
+wanted her to say so at her funeral. This turned
+out to be false.
+
+It has been claimed that Mary Hinsdale made her
+statement to Charles Collins. Long after the alleged
+occurrence Gilbert Vale, one of the biographers of
+Paine, had a conversation with Collins concerning
+Mary Hinsdale. Vale asked him what he thought
+of her. He replied that some of the Friends be-
+lieved that she used opiates, and that they did not
+give credit to her statements. He also said that he
+believed what the Friends said, but thought that
+when a young woman, she might have told the
+truth.
+
+In 1818 William Cobbett came to New York.
+He began collecting materials for a life of Thomas
+Paine. In this he became acquainted with Mary
+Hinsdale and Charles Collins. Mr. Cobbett gave a
+
+470
+
+full account of what happened in a letter addressed
+to the Norwich Mercury in 1819. From this ac-
+count it seems that Charles Collins told Cobbett that
+Paine had recanted. Cobbett called for the testi-
+mony, and told Mr. Collins that he must give time,
+place, and the circumstances. He finally brought a
+statement that he stated had been made by Mary
+Hinsdale. Armed with this document Cobbett, in
+October of that year, called upon the said Mary
+Hinsdale, at No. 10 Anthony street, New York, and
+showed her the statement. Upon being questioned
+by Mr. Cobbett she said, "That it was so long ago
+that she could not speak positively to any part of the
+matter--that she would not say that any part of the
+paper was true--that she had never seen the paper
+--and that she had never given Charles Collins
+authority to say anything about the matter in her
+name." And so in the month of October, in the
+year of grace 1818, in the mist and fog of forgetful-
+ness disappeared forever one Mary Hinsdale--the
+last and only witness against the intellectual honesty
+of Thomas Paine.
+
+_Did Thomas Paine live the life of a drunken beast,
+and did he die a drunken, cowardly and beastly death?_
+
+Upon you rests the burden of substantiating these
+infamous charges.
+
+471
+
+You have, I suppose, produced the best evidence
+in your possession, and that evidence I will now pro-
+ceed to examine. Your first witness is Grant Thor-
+burn. He makes three charges against Thomas
+Paine, 1st. That his wife obtained a divorce from
+him in England for cruelty and neglect. 2d. That
+he was a defaulter and fled from England to Amer-
+ica. 3d. That he was a drunkard.
+
+These three charges stand upon the same evidence
+--the word of Grant Thorburn. If they are not all
+true Mr. Thorburn stands impeached.
+
+The charge that Mrs. Paine obtained a divorce on
+account of the cruelty and neglect of her husband is
+utterly false. There is no such record in the world,
+and never was. Paine and his wife separated by
+mutual consent. Each respected the other. They
+remained friends. This charge is without any foun-
+dation in fact. I challenge the Christian world to
+produce the record of this decree of divorce. Accord-
+ing to Mr. Thorburn it was granted in England. In
+that country public records are kept of all such de-
+crees. Have the kindness to produce this decree
+showing that it was given on account of cruelty or
+admit that Mr. Thorburn was mistaken.
+
+Thomas Paine was a just man. Although sepa-
+rated from his wife, he always spoke of her with
+
+472
+
+tenderness and respect, and frequently sent her
+money without letting her know the source from
+whence it came. Was this the conduct of a drunken
+beast?
+
+The second charge, that Paine was a defaulter in
+England and fled to America, is equally false. He
+did not flee from England. He came to America,
+not as a fugitive, but as a free man. He came with
+a letter of introduction signed by another Infidel,
+Benjamin Franklin. He came as a soldier of Free-
+dom--an apostle of Liberty.
+
+In this second charge there is not one word of truth.
+
+He held a small office in England. If he was a
+defaulter the records of that country will show that
+fact.
+
+Mr. Thorburn, unless the record can be produced
+to substantiate him, stands convicted of at least two
+mistakes.
+
+Now, as to the third: He says that in 1802 Paine
+was an "old remnant of mortality, drunk, bloated
+and half asleep."
+
+Can any one believe this to be a true account of
+the personal appearance of Mr. Paine in 1802? He
+had just returned from France. He had been wel-
+comed home by Thomas Jefferson, who had said that
+he was entitled to the hospitality of every American.
+
+473
+
+In 1802 Mr. Paine was honored with a public din-
+ner in the city of New York. He was called upon
+and treated with kindness and respect by such men
+as DeWitt Clinton.
+
+In 1806 Mr. Paine wrote a letter to Andrew A.
+Dean upon the subject of religion. Read that letter
+and then say that the writer of it was an "old rem-
+nant of mortality, drunk, bloated and half asleep."
+Search the files of the New York Observer from the
+first issue to the last, and you will find nothing supe-
+rior to this letter.
+
+In 1803 Mr. Paine wrote a letter of considerable
+length, and of great force, to his friend Samuel
+Adams. Such letters are not written by drunken
+beasts, nor by remnants of old mortality, nor by
+drunkards. It was about the same time that he
+wrote his "Remarks on Robert Hall's Sermons."
+
+These "Remarks" were not written by a drunken
+beast, but by a clear-headed and thoughtful man.
+
+In 1804 he published an essay on the invasion of
+England, and a treatise on gunboats, full of valuable
+maritime information:--in 1805, a treatise on yellow
+fever, suggesting modes of prevention. In short, he
+was an industrious and thoughtful man. He sympa-
+thized with the poor and oppressed of all lands. He
+looked upon monarchy as a species of physical
+
+474
+
+slavery. He had the goodness to attack that form
+of government. He regarded the religion of his day
+as a kind of mental slavery. He had the courage to
+give his reasons for his opinion. His reasons filled
+the churches with hatred. Instead of answering his
+arguments they attacked him. Men who were not
+fit to blacken his shoes, blackened his character.
+
+There is too much religious cant in the statement
+of Mr. Thorburn. He exhibited too much anxiety
+to tell what Grant Thorburn said to Thomas Paine.
+He names Thomas Jefferson as one of the disreputa-
+ble men who welcomed Paine with open arms. The
+testimony of a man who regarded Thomas Jefferson
+as a disreputable person, as to the character of any-
+body, is utterly without value. In my judgment, the
+testimony of Mr. Thorburn should be thrown aside
+as wholly unworthy of belief.
+
+Your next witness is the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.
+D., who tells what an elder in his church said. This
+elder said that Paine passed his last days on his farm
+at New Rochelle with a solitary female attendant.
+This is not true. He did not pass his last days at
+New Rochelle. Consequently this pious elder did
+not see him during his last days at that place. Upon
+this elder we prove an alibi. Mr. Paine passed his
+last days in the city of New York, in a house upon
+
+475
+
+Columbia street. The story of the Rev. J. D. Wick-
+ham, D.D., is simply false.
+
+The next competent false witness is the Rev.
+Charles Hawley, D.D., who proceeds to state that
+the story of the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.D., is cor-
+roborated by older citizens of New Rochelle. The
+names of these ancient residents are withheld. Ac-
+cording to these unknown witnesses, the account
+given by the deceased elder was entirely correct.
+But as the particulars of Mr. Paine's conduct "were
+too loathsome to be described in print," we are left
+entirely in the dark as to what he really did.
+
+While at New Rochelle Mr. Paine lived with Mr.
+Purdy--with Mr. Dean--with Captain Pelton, and
+with Mr. Staple. It is worthy of note that all of
+these gentlemen give the lie direct to the statements
+of "older residents" and ancient citizens spoken of
+by the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D., and leave him
+with his "loathsome particulars" existing only in his
+own mind.
+
+The next gentleman you bring upon the stand is
+W. H. Ladd, who quotes from the memoirs of
+Stephen Grellet. This gentleman also has the mis-
+fortune to be dead. According to his account, Mr.
+Paine made his recantation to a servant girl of his
+by the name of Mary Roscoe. To this girl, accord-
+
+476
+
+ing to the account, Mr. Paine uttered the wish that
+all who read his book had burned it. I believe there
+is a mistake in the name of this girl. Her name was
+probably Mary Hinsdale, as it was once claimed that
+Paine made the same remark to her, but this point
+I shall notice hereafter. These are your witnesses,
+and the only ones you bring forward, to support
+your charge that Thomas Paine lived a drunken and
+beastly life and died a drunken, cowardly and beastly
+death. All these calumnies are found in a life of
+Paine by a Mr. Cheetham, the convicted libeler
+already referred to. Mr. Cheetham was an enemy
+of the man whose life he pretended to write.
+
+In order to show you the estimation in which Mr.
+Cheetham was held by Mr. Paine, I will give you a
+copy of a letter that throws light upon this point:
+
+October 28, 1807.
+
+"Mr. Cheetham: Unless you make a public apol-
+ogy for the abuse and falsehood in your paper of
+Tuesday, October 27th, respecting me, I will prose-
+cute you for lying."
+
+Thomas Paine.
+
+In another letter, speaking of this same man, Mr.
+Paine says: "If an unprincipled bully cannot be re-
+formed, he can be punished." "Cheetham has been
+so long in the habit of giving false information, that
+truth is to him like a foreign language."
+
+477
+
+Mr. Cheetham wrote the life of Paine to gratify
+his malice and to support religion. He was prose-
+cuted for libel--was convicted and fined.
+
+Yet the life of Paine written by this man is referred
+to by the Christian world as the highest authority.
+
+As to the personal habits of Mr. Paine, we have
+the testimony of William Carver, with whom he
+lived; of Mr. Jarvis, the artist, with whom he lived;
+of Mr. Staple, with whom he lived; of Mr. Purdy,
+who was a tenant of Paine's; of Mr. Burger, with
+whom he was intimate; of Thomas Nixon and
+Captain Daniel Pelton, both of whom knew him
+well; of Amasa Woodsworth, who was with him
+when he died; of John Fellows, who boarded at the
+same house; of James Wilburn, with whom he
+boarded; of B. F. Haskin, a lawyer, who was well
+acquainted with him and called upon him during his
+last illness; of Walter Morton, a friend; of Clio
+Rickman, who had known him for many years; of
+Willet and Elias Hicks, Quakers, who knew him in-
+timately and well; of Judge Herttell, H. Margary,
+Elihu Palmer, and many others. All these testified
+to the fact that Mr. Paine was a temperate man. In
+those days nearly everybody used spirituous liquors.
+Paine was not an exception; but he did not drink to
+excess. Mr. Lovett, who kept the City Hotel where
+
+478
+
+Paine stopped, in a note to Caleb Bingham, declared
+that Paine drank less than any boarder he had.
+
+Against all this evidence you produce the story of
+Grant Thorburn--the story of the Rev. J. D. Wick-
+ham that an elder in his church told him that Paine
+was a drunkard, corroborated by the Rev. Charles
+Hawley, and an extract from Lossing's history to
+the same effect. The evidence is overwhelmingly
+against you. Will you have the fairness to admit it?
+Your witnesses are merely the repeaters of the false-
+hoods of James Cheetham, the convicted libeler.
+
+After all, drinking is not as bad as lying. An
+honest drunkard is better than a calumniator of the
+dead. "A remnant of old mortality, drunk, bloated
+and half asleep" is better than a perfectly sober
+defender of human slavery.
+
+To become drunk is a virtue compared with steal-
+ing a babe from the breast of its mother.
+
+Drunkenness is one of the beatitudes, compared
+with editing a religious paper devoted to the defence
+of slavery upon the ground that it is a divine insti-
+tution.
+
+Do you really think that Paine was a drunken
+beast when he wrote "Common Sense"--a pamphlet
+that aroused three millions of people, as people were
+never aroused by a pamphlet before? Was he a
+
+479
+
+drunken beast when he wrote the "Crisis"? Was
+it to a drunken beast that the following letter was
+addressed:
+
+Rocky Hill, September 10, 1783.
+
+"I have learned since I have been at this place,
+that you are at Bordentown.--Whether for the sake
+of retirement or economy I know not. Be it for
+either or both, or whatever it may, if you will come
+to this place and partake with me I shall be exceed-
+ingly happy to see you at it. Your presence may
+remind Congress of your past services to this country;
+and if it is in my power to impress them, command
+my best exertions with freedom, as they will be
+rendered cheerfully by one who entertains a lively
+sense of the importance of your works, and who with
+much pleasure subscribes himself,
+
+"Your Sincere Friend,
+
+"George Washington."
+
+Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter
+like that?
+
+Do you think that Paine was a drunken beast
+when the following letter was received by him?
+
+"You express a wish in your letter to return to
+America in a national ship; Mr. Dawson, who brings
+over the treaty, and who will present you with this
+letter, is charged with orders to the captain of the
+
+480
+
+Maryland to receive and accommodate you back, if you
+can be ready to depart at such a short warning. You
+will in general find us returned to sentiments worthy
+of former times; _in these it will be your glory to have
+steadily labored and with as much effect as any man
+living._ That you may live long to continue your
+useful labors, and reap the reward in the _thankfulness
+of nations_, is my sincere prayer. Accept the assur-
+ances of my high esteem and affectionate attachment."
+
+Thomas Jefferson.
+
+Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter
+like that?
+
+"It has been very generally propagated through
+the continent that I wrote the pamphlet 'Common
+Sense.' I could not have written anything in so
+manly and striking a style."--John Adams.
+
+"A few more such flaming arguments as were
+exhibited at Falmouth and Norfolk, added to the
+sound doctrine and unanswerable reasoning con-
+tained in the pamphlet 'Common Sense,' will not
+leave numbers at a loss to decide on the propriety of
+a separation."--George Washington.
+
+"It is not necessary for me to tell you how
+much all your countrymen--I speak of the great
+mass of the people--are interested in your welfare.
+
+481
+
+They have not forgotten the history of their own
+Revolution and the difficult scenes through which
+they passed; nor do they review its several stages
+without reviving in their bosoms a due sensibility of
+the merits of those who served them in that great
+and arduous conflict. The crime of ingratitude has
+not yet stained, and I trust never will stain, our
+national character. You are considered by them as
+not only having rendered important services in our
+own Revolution, but as being on a more extensive
+scale the friend of human rights, and a distinguished
+and able defender of public liberty. To the welfare
+of Thomas Paine the Americans are not, nor can
+they be indifferent.".. James Monroe.
+
+Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter
+like that?
+
+"No writer has exceeded Paine in ease and famil-
+iarity of style, in perspicuity of expression, happiness
+of elucidation, and in simple and unassuming lan-
+guage."'--Thomas Jefferson.
+
+Was ever a letter like that written about an editor
+of the _New York Observer?_
+
+Was it in consideration of the services of a
+drunken beast that the Legislature of Pennsylvania
+presented Thomas Paine with five hundred pounds
+sterling?
+
+482
+
+Did the State of New York feel indebted to a
+drunken beast, and confer upon Thomas Paine an
+estate of several hundred acres?
+
+"I believe in the equality of man, and I believe
+that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving
+mercy, and endeavoring to make our fellow-creat-
+ures happy."
+
+"My own mind is my own church."
+
+"It is necessary to the happiness of man that he
+be mentally faithful to himself."
+
+"Any system of religion that shocks the mind of
+a child cannot be a true system."
+
+"The Word of God is the creation which we
+behold."
+
+"The age of ignorance commenced with the
+Christian system."
+
+"It is with a pious fraud as with a bad action--it
+begets a calamitous necessity of going on."
+
+"To read the Bible without horror, we must undo
+everything that is tender, sympathizing and benev-
+olent in the heart of man."
+
+"The man does not exist who can say I have per-
+secuted him, or that I have in any case returned evil
+for evil."
+
+"Of all tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in
+religion is the worst."
+
+483
+
+"My own opinion is, that those whose lives have
+been spent in doing good and endeavoring to make
+their fellow-mortals happy, will be happy hereafter."
+"The belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man."
+"The intellectual part of religion is a private affair
+between every man and his Maker, and in which no
+third party has any right to interfere. The practical
+part consists in our doing good to each other."
+
+"No man ought to make a living by religion. One
+person cannot act religion for another--every person
+must perform it for himself."
+
+"One good schoolmaster is of more use than a
+hundred priests."
+
+"Let us propagate morality unfettered by super-
+stition."
+
+"God is the power, or first cause, Nature is the
+law, and matter is the subject acted upon."
+
+"I believe in one God and no more, and I hope
+for happiness beyond this life."
+
+"The key of heaven is not in the keeping of any
+sect nor ought the road to it to be obstructed
+by any."
+
+"My religion, and the whole of it, is the fear and
+love of the Deity and universal philanthropy."
+
+"I have yet, I believe, some years in store, for I
+have a good state of health and a happy mind. I
+
+484
+
+take care of both, by nourishing the first with tem-
+perance and the latter with abundance."
+
+"He lives immured within the Bastile of a
+word."
+
+How perfectly that sentence describes you! The
+Bastile in which you are immured is the word
+"Calvinism."
+
+"Man has no property in man."
+
+What a splendid motto that would have made for
+the _New York Observer_ in the olden time!
+
+"The world is my country; to do good, my
+religion."
+
+I ask you again whether these splendid utterances
+came from the lips of a drunken beast?
+
+
+_Did Thomas Paine die in destitution and want?_
+
+The charge has been made, over and over again,
+that Thomas Paine died in want and destitution--
+that he was an abandoned pauper--an outcast with-
+out friends and without money. This charge is just
+as false as the rest.
+
+Upon his return to this country in 1802, he was
+worth $30,000, according to his own statement made
+at that time in the following letter addressed to Clio
+Rickman:
+
+"My Dear Friend: Mr. Monroe, who is appointed
+minister extraordinary to France, takes charge of
+
+485
+
+this, to be delivered to Mr. Este, banker in Paris, to
+be forwarded to you.
+
+"I arrived at Baltimore the 30th of October, and
+you can have no idea of the agitation which my
+arrival occasioned. From New Hampshire to
+Georgia (an extent of 1,500 miles) every newspaper
+was filled with applause or abuse.
+
+"My property in this country has been taken care
+of by my friends, and is now worth six thousand
+pounds sterling; which put in the funds will bring
+me L400 sterling a year.
+
+"Remember me in affection and friendship to your
+wife and family, and in the circle of your friends."
+
+Thomas Paine.
+
+A man in those days worth thirty thousand dol-
+lars was not a pauper. That amount would bring an
+income of at least two thousand dollars per annum.
+Two thousand dollars then would be fully equal to
+five thousand dollars now.
+
+On the 12th of July, 1809, the year in which he
+died, Mr. Paine made his will. From this instru-
+ment we learn that he was the owner of a valuable
+farm within twenty miles of New York. He also
+was the owner of thirty shares in the New York
+Phoenix Insurance Company, worth upwards of fif-
+teen hundred dollars. Besides this, some personal
+
+486
+
+property and ready money. By his will he gave to
+Walter Morton, and Thomas Addis Emmett, brother
+of Robert Emmett, two hundred dollars each, and
+one hundred to the widow of Elihu Palmer.
+
+Is it possible that this will was made by a pauper
+--by a destitute outcast--by a man who suffered for
+the ordinary necessaries of life?
+
+But suppose, for the sake of the argument, that he
+was poor and that he died a beggar, does that tend
+to show that the Bible is an inspired book and that
+Calvin did not burn Servetus? Do you really regard
+poverty as a crime? If Paine had died a millionaire,
+would you have accepted his religious opinions? If
+Paine had drank nothing but cold water would you
+have repudiated the five cardinal points of Calvin-
+ism? Does an argument depend for its force upon
+the pecuniary condition of the person making it?
+As a matter of fact, most reformers--most men and
+women of genius, have been acquainted with poverty.
+Beneath a covering of rags have been found some of
+the tenderest and bravest hearts.
+
+Owing to the attitude of the churches for the last
+fifteen hundred years, truth-telling has not been a
+very lucrative business. As a rule, hypocrisy has
+worn the robes, and honesty the rags. That day is
+passing away. You cannot now answer the argu-
+
+487
+
+ments of a man by pointing at holes in his coat.
+Thomas Paine attacked the church when it was
+powerful--when it had what was called honors to
+bestow--when it was the keeper of the public con-
+science--when it was strong and cruel. The church
+waited till he was dead then attacked his reputation
+and his clothes.
+
+Once upon a time a donkey kicked a lion. The
+lion was dead.
+
+Conclusion.
+
+From the persistence with which the orthodox
+have charged for the last sixty-eight years that
+Thomas Paine recanted, and that when dying he
+was filled with remorse and fear; from the malignity
+of the attacks upon his personal character, I had con-
+cluded that there must be some evidence of some
+kind to support these charges. Even with my ideas
+of the average honor of believers in superstition--
+the disciples of fear--I did not quite believe that all
+these infamies rested solely upon poorly attested
+lies. I had charity enough to suppose that some-
+thing had been said or done by Thomas Paine capa-
+ble of being tortured into a foundation for these
+calumnies. And I was foolish enough to think that
+even you would be willing to fairly examine the pre-
+tended evidence said to sustain these charges, and
+
+488
+
+give your honest conclusion to the world. I sup-
+posed that you, being acquainted with the history of
+your country, felt under a certain obligation to
+Thomas Paine for the splendid services rendered by
+him in the darkest days of the Revolution. It was
+only reasonable to suppose that you were aware that
+in the midnight of Valley Forge the "Crisis," by
+Thomas Paine, was the first star that glittered in the
+wide horizon of despair. I took it for granted that
+you knew of the bold stand taken and the brave
+words spoken by Thomas Paine, in the French Con-
+vention, against the death of the king. I thought it
+probable that you, being an editor, had read the
+"Rights of Man;" that you knew that Thomas
+Paine was a champion of human liberty; that he was
+one of the founders and fathers of this Republic; that
+he was one of the foremost men of his age; that he
+had never written a word in favor of injustice; that
+he was a despiser of slavery; that he abhorred tyr-
+anny in all its forms; that he was in the widest and
+highest sense a friend of his race; that his head was
+as clear as his heart was good, and that he had the
+courage to speak his honest thought. Under these
+circumstances I had hoped that you would for the
+moment forget your religious prejudices and submit
+to the enlightened judgment of the world the evi-
+
+489
+
+dence you had, or could obtain, affecting in any way
+the character of so great and so generous a man. This
+you have refused to do. In my judgment, you have
+mistaken the temper of even your own readers. A
+large majority of the religious people of this country
+have, to a considerable extent, outgrown the preju-
+dices of their fathers. They are willing to know the
+truth and the whole truth, about the life and death of
+Thomas Paine. They will not thank you for having
+presented them the moss-covered, the maimed and dis-
+torted traditions of ignorance, prejudice, and credulity.
+By this course you will convince them not of the
+wickedness of Paine, but of your own unfairness.
+
+What crime had Thomas Paine committed that he
+should have feared to die? The only answer you
+can give is, that he denied the inspiration of the
+Scriptures. If this is a crime, the civilized world is
+filled with criminals. The pioneers of human thought
+--the intellectual leaders of the world--the foremost
+men in every science--the kings of literature and
+art--those who stand in the front rank of investiga-
+tion--the men who are civilizing, elevating, instruct-
+ing, and refining mankind, are to-day unbelievers in
+the dogma of inspiration. Upon this question, the
+intellect of Christendom agrees with the conclusions
+reached by the genius of Thomas Paine. Centuries
+
+490
+
+ago a noise was made for the purpose of frightening
+mankind. Orthodoxy is the echo of that noise.
+
+The man who now regards the Old Testament as
+in any sense a sacred or inspired book is, in my judg-
+ment, an intellectual and moral deformity. There is
+in it so much that is cruel, ignorant, and ferocious
+that it is to me a matter of amazement that it was
+ever thought to be the work of a most merciful deity.
+
+Upon the question of inspiration Thomas Paine
+gave his honest opinion. Can it be that to give an
+honest opinion causes one to die in terror and de-
+spair? Have you in your writings been actuated by
+the fear of such a consequence? Why should it be
+taken for granted that Thomas Paine, who devoted
+his life to the sacred cause of freedom, should have
+been hissed at in the hour of death by the snakes of
+conscience, while editors of Presbyterian papers who
+defended slavery as a divine institution, and cheer-
+fully justified the stealing of babes from the breasts of
+mothers, are supposed to have passed smilingly from
+earth to the embraces of angels? Why should you
+think that the heroic author of the "Rights of Man"
+should shudderingly dread to leave this "bank and
+shoal of time," while Calvin, dripping with the blood
+of Servetus, was anxious to be judged of God? Is
+it possible that the persecutors--the instigators of
+
+491
+
+the massacre of St. Bartholomew--the inventors and
+users of thumb-screws, and iron boots, and racks--
+the burners and tearers of human flesh--the stealers,
+whippers and enslavers of men--the buyers and
+beaters of babes and mothers--the founders of
+inquisitions--the makers of chains, the builders of
+dungeons, the slanderers of the living and the calum-
+niators of the dead, all died in the odor of sanctity,
+with white, forgiven hands folded upon the breasts
+of peace, while the destroyers of prejudice--the
+apostles of humanity--the soldiers of liberty--the
+breakers of fetters--the creators of light--died sur-
+rounded with the fierce fiends of fear?
+
+In your attempt to destroy the character of Thomas
+Paine you have failed, and have succeeded only in
+leaving a stain upon your own. You have written
+words as cruel, bitter and heartless as the creed of
+Calvin. Hereafter you will stand in the pillory of
+history as a defamer--a calumniator of the dead.
+You will be known as the man who said that Thomas
+Paine, the "Author Hero," lived a drunken, coward-
+ly and beastly life, and died a drunken and beastly
+death. These infamous words will be branded upon
+the forehead of your reputation. They will be re-
+membered against you when all else you may have
+uttered shall have passed from the memory of men.
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll.
+
+
+
+
+THE OBSERVER'S SECOND ATTACK
+
+     _* From the NY. Observer of Nov. 1, 1877._
+
+
+TOM PAINE AGAIN.
+
+In the Observer of September 27th, in response
+to numerous calls from different parts of the country
+for information, and in fulfillment of a promise, we
+presented a mass of testimony, chiefly from persons
+with whom we had been personally acquainted,
+establishing the truth of our assertions in regard to
+the dissolute life and miserable end of Paine. It was
+not a pleasing subject for discussion, and an apology,
+or at least an explanation, is due to our readers for
+resuming it, and for occupying so much space, or
+any space, in exhibiting the truth and the proofs in
+regard to the character of a man who had become so
+debased by his intemperance, and so vile in his
+habits, as to be excluded, for many years before and
+up to the time of his death, from all decent society.
+
+Our reasons for taking up the subject at all, and
+for presenting at this time so much additional testi-
+mony in regard to the facts of the case, are these:
+At different periods for the last fifty years, efforts
+
+493
+
+have been made by Infidels to revive and honor the
+memory of one whose friends would honor him most
+by suffering his name to sink into oblivion, if that
+were possible. About two years since, Rev. O. B.
+Frothingham, of this city, came to their aid, and
+undertook a sort of championship of Paine, making
+in a public discourse this statement: "No private
+character has been more foully calumniated in the
+name of God than that of Thomas Paine." (Mr.
+Frothingham, it will be remembered, is the one who
+recently, in a public discourse, announced the down-
+fall of Christianity, although he very kindly made
+the allowance that, "it may be a thousand years
+before its decay will be visible to all eyes." It is
+our private opinion that it will be at least a thousand
+and one.) Rev. John W. Chadwick, a minister of
+the same order of unbelief, who signs himself, "Min-
+ister of the Second Unitarian Society in Brooklyn,"
+has devoted two discourses to the same end, eulogiz-
+ing Paine. In one of these, which we have before
+us in a handsomely printed pamphlet, entitled,
+"Method and Value of his (Paine's) Religious
+Teachings," he says: "Christian usage has determ-
+ined that an Infidel means one who does not believe
+in Christianity as a supernatural religion; in the
+Bible as a Supernatural book; in Jesus as a super-
+
+494
+
+natural person. And in this sense Paine was an
+Infidel, and so, thank God, am I." It is proper to
+add that Unitarians generally decline all responsibil-
+ity for the utterances of both of these men, and that
+they compose a denomination, or rather two denom-
+inations, of their own.
+
+There is also a certain class of Infidels who are
+not quite prepared to meet the odium that attaches
+to the name; they call themselves Christians, but
+their sympathies are all with the enemies of Chris-
+tianity, and they are not always able to conceal it.
+They have not the courage of their opinions, like
+Mr. Frothingham and Mr. Chadwick, and they work
+only sideways toward the same end. We have been
+no little amused since our last article on this subject
+appeared, to read some of the articles that have been
+written on the other side, though professedly on no
+side, and to observe how sincerely these men depre-
+cate the discussion of the character of Paine, as an
+unprofitable topic. It never appeared to them un-
+profitable when the discussion was on the other side.
+
+Then, too, we have for months past been receiving
+letters from different parts of the country, asking
+authentic information on the subject and stating that
+the followers of Paine are making extraordinary
+efforts to circulate his writings against the Christian
+
+495
+
+religion, and in order to give currency to these writ-
+ings they are endeavoring to rescue his name from
+the disgrace into which it sank during the latter
+years of his life. Paine spent several of his last
+years in furnishing a commentary upon his Infidel
+principles. This commentary was contained in his
+besotted, degraded life and miserable end, but his
+friends do not wish the commentary to go out in
+connection with his writings. They prefer to have
+them read without the comments by their author.
+Hence this anxiety to free the great apostle of
+Infidelity from the obloquy which his life brought
+upon his name; to represent him as a pure, noble,
+virtuous man, and to make it appear that he died a
+peaceful, happy death, just like a philosopher.
+
+But what makes the publication of the facts in the
+case still more imperative at this time is the whole-
+sale accusation brought against the Christian public
+by the friends and admirers of Paine. Christian
+ministers as a class, and Christian journals are
+expressly accused of falsifying history, of defaming
+"the mighty dead!" (meaning Paine,) &c., &c. In
+the face of all these accusations it cannot be out of
+place to state the facts and to fortify the statement
+by satisfactory evidence, as we are abundantly able
+to do.
+
+496
+
+The two points on which we proposed to produce
+the testimony are, the character of Paine's life (refer-
+ring of course to his last residence in this country,
+for no one has intimated that he had sunk into such
+besotted drunkenness until about the time of his
+return to the United States in 1802), and the real
+character of his death as consistent with such a life,
+and as marked further by the cowardliness, which
+has been often exhibited by Infidels in the same
+circumstances.
+
+It is nothing at all to the purpose to show, as his
+friends are fond of doing, that Paine rendered
+important service to the cause of American Inde-
+pendence. This is not the point under discussion
+and is not denied. No one ever called in question
+the valuable service that Benedict Arnold rendered
+to the country in the early part of the Revolutionary
+war; but this, with true Americans, does not suffice
+to cast a shade of loveliness or even to spread a man-
+tle of charity over his subsequent career. Whatever
+share Paine had in the personal friendship of the
+fathers of the Revolution he forfeited by his subse-
+quent life of beastly drunkenness and degradation,
+and on this account as well as on account of his
+blasphemy he was shunned by all decent people.
+
+We wish to make one or two corrections of mis-
+
+497
+
+statements by Paine's advocates, on which a vast
+amount of argument has been simply wasted. We
+have never stated in any form, nor have we ever
+supposed, that Paine actually renounced his Infidel-
+ity. The accounts agree in stating that he died a
+blaspheming Infidel, and his horrible death we regard
+as one of the fruits, the fitting complement of his
+Infidelity. We have never seen anything that
+encouraged the hope that he was not abandoned of
+God in his last hours. But we have no doubt, on
+the other hand, that having become a wreck in body
+and mind through his intemperance, abandoned of
+God, deserted by his Infidel companions, and de-
+pendent upon Christian charity for the attentions he
+received, miserable beyond description in his condi-
+tion, and seeing nothing to hope for in the future, he
+was afraid to die, and was ready to call upon God
+and upon Christ for mercy, and ready perhaps in the
+next minute to blaspheme. This is what we referred
+to in speaking of Paine's death as cowardly. It is
+shown in the testimony we have produced, and still
+more fully in that which we now present. The most
+wicked men are ready to call upon God in seasons
+of great peril, and sometimes ask for Christian min-
+istrations when in extreme illness; but they are
+often ready on any alleviation of distress to turn to
+
+498
+
+their wickedness again, in the expressive language
+of Scripture, "as the sow that was washed to her
+wallowing in the mire."
+
+We have never stated or intimated, nor, so far as
+we are aware, has any one of our correspondents
+stated, that Paine died in poverty. It has been
+frequently and truthfully stated that Paine was de-
+pendent on Christian charity for the attentions he
+received in his last days, and so he was. His Infidel
+companions forsook him and Christian hearts and
+hands ministered to his wants, notwithstanding the
+blasphemies of his death-bed.
+
+Nor has one of our correspondents stated, as
+alleged, that Paine died at New Rochelle. The
+Rev. Dr. Wickham, who was a resident of that place
+nearly fifty years ago, and who was perfectly familiar
+with the facts of his life, wrote that Paine spent "his
+latter days" on the farm presented to him by
+the State of New York, which was strictly true,
+but made no reference to it as the place of his
+death.
+
+Such misrepresentations serve to show how much
+the advocates of Paine admire "truth."
+
+With these explanations we produce further evi-
+dence in regard to the manner of Paine's life and the
+character of his death, both of which we have already
+
+499
+
+characterized in appropriate terms, as the following
+testimony will show.
+
+In regard to Paine's "personal habits," even before
+his return to this country, and particularly his aver-
+sion to soap and water, Elkana Watson, a gentleman
+of the highest social position, who resided in France
+during a part of the Revolutionary war, and who
+was the personal friend of Washington, Franklin,
+and other patriots of the period, makes some inci-
+dental statements in his "Men and Times of the
+Revolution." Though eulogizing Paine's efforts in
+behalf of American Independence, he describes him
+as "coarse and uncouth in his manners, loathsome
+in his appearance, and a disgusting egotist." On
+Paine's arrival at Nantes, the Mayor and other dis-
+tinguished citizens called upon him to pay their
+respects to the American patriot. Mr. Watson says:
+"He was soon rid of his respectable visitors, who
+left the room with marks of astonishment and dis-
+gust." Mr. W., after much entreaty, and only by
+promising him a bundle of newspapers to read while
+undergoing the operation, succeeded in prevailing
+on Paine to "stew, for an hour, in a hot bath." Mr.
+W. accompanied Paine to the bath, and "instructed
+the keeper, in French, (which Paine did not under-
+stand,) gradually to increase the heat of the water
+
+500
+
+until 'le Monsieur serait bien bouille (until the gentle-
+man shall be well boiled;) and adds that "he became
+so much absorbed in his reading that he was nearly-
+parboiled before leaving the bath, much to his im-
+provement and my satisfaction."
+
+William Carver has been cited as a witness in be-
+half of Paine, and particularly as to his "personal
+habits." In a letter to Paine, dated December 2,
+1776, he bears the following testimony:
+
+"A respectable gentlemen from New Rochelle
+called to see me a few days back, and said that
+everybody was tired of you there, and no one would
+undertake to board and lodge you. I thought this
+was the case, as I found you at a tavern in a most
+miserable situation. You appeared as if you had
+not been shaved for a fortnight, and as to a shirt, it
+could not be said that you had one on. It was only
+the remains of one, and this, likewise, appeared not
+to have been off your back for a fortnight, and was
+nearly the color of tanned leather; and you had the
+most disagreeable smell possible; just like that of
+our poor beggars in England. Do you remember the
+pains I took to clean you? that I got a tub of warm
+water and soap and washed you from head to foot, and
+this I had to do three times before I could get you
+clean." (And then follow more disgusting details.)
+
+501
+
+"You say, also, that you found your own liquors
+during the time you boarded with me; but you
+should have said, 'I found only a small part of the
+liquor I drank during my stay with you; this part I
+purchased of John Fellows, which was a demijohn of
+brandy containing four gallons, and this did not serve
+me three weeks.' This can be proved, and I mean
+not to say anything that I cannot prove; for I hold
+truth as a precious jewel. It is a well-known fact,
+that you drank one quart of brandy per day, at my
+expense, during the different times that you have
+boarded with me, the demijohn above mentioned
+excepted, and the last fourteen weeks you were sick.
+Is not this a supply of liquor for dinner and supper?"
+This chosen witness in behalf of Paine, closes his
+letter, which is full of loathsome descriptions of
+Paine's manner of life, as follows:
+
+"Now, sir, I think I have drawn a complete por-
+trait of your character; yet to enter upon every
+minutiae would be to give a history of your life, and
+to develop the fallacious mask of hypocrisy and de-
+ception under which you have acted in your political
+as well as moral capacity of life."
+
+(Signed) "William Carver."
+
+Carver had the same opinion of Paine to his dying
+day. When an old man, and an Infidel of the Paine
+
+502
+
+type and habits, he was visited by the Rev. E. F.
+Hatfield, D.D., of this city, who writes to us of his
+interview with Carver, under date of Sept. 27, 1877:
+"I conversed with him nearly an hour. I took
+special pains to learn from him all that I could about
+Paine, whose landlord he had been for eighteen
+months. He spoke of him as a base and shameless
+drunkard, utterly destitute of moral principle. His
+denunciations of the man were perfectly fearful, and
+fully confirmed, in my apprehension, all that had been
+written of Paine's immorality and repulsiveness."
+Cheetham's Life of Paine, which was published
+the year that he died, and which has passed through
+several editions (we have three of them now before
+us) describes a man lost to all moral sensibility and
+to all sense of decency, a habitual drunkard, and it is
+simply incredible that a book should have appeared
+so soon after the death of its subject and should have
+been so frequently republished without being at once
+refuted, if the testimony were not substantially true.
+Many years later, when it was found necessary to
+bolster up the reputation of Paine, Cheetham's
+Memoirs were called a pack of lies. If only one-
+tenth part of what he publishes circumstantially in
+his volume, as facts in regard to Paine, were true, all
+that has been written against him in later years does
+
+503
+
+not begin to set forth the degraded character of the
+man's life. And with all that has been written on
+the subject we see no good reason to doubt the sub-
+stantial accuracy of Cheetham's portrait of the man
+whom he knew so well.
+
+Dr. J. W. Francis, well-known as an eminent phy-
+sician, of this city, in his Reminiscences of New York,
+says of Paine:
+
+"He who, in his early days, had been associated
+with, and had received counsel from Franklin, was,
+in his old age, deserted by the humblest menial; he,
+whose pen has proved a very sword among nations,
+had shaken empires, and made kings tremble, now
+yielded up the mastery to the most treacherous of
+tyrants, King Alcohol."
+
+The physician who attended Paine during his last
+illness was Dr. James R. Manley, a gentleman of the
+highest character. A letter of his, written in Octo-
+ber of the year that Paine died, fully corroborates
+the account of his state as recorded by Stephen
+Grellet in his Memoirs, which we have already
+printed. He writes:
+
+"New York, October 2, 1809: I was called upon
+by accident to visit Mr. Paine, on the 25th of Feb-
+ruary last, and found him indisposed with fever, and
+very apprehensive of an attack of apoplexy, as he
+
+504
+
+stated that he had that disease before, and at this
+time felt a great degree of vertigo, and was unable
+to help himself as he had hitherto done, on account
+of an intense pain above the eyes. On inquiry of
+the attendants I was told that three or four days
+previously he had concluded to dispense with his
+usual quantity of accustomed stimulus and that he
+had on that day resumed it. To the want of his
+usual drink they attributed his illness, and it is highly
+probable that the usual quantity operating upon a
+state of system more excited from the above priva-
+tions, was the cause of the symptoms of which he
+then complained.... And here let me be per-
+mitted to observe (lest blame might attach to those
+whose business it was to pay any particular attention
+to his cleanliness of person) that it was absolutely
+impossible to effect that purpose. Cleanliness ap-
+peared to make no part of his comfort; he seemed
+to have a singular aversion to soap and water; he
+would never ask to be washed, and when he was he
+would always make objections; and it was not un-
+usual to wash and to dress him clean very much
+against his inclinations. In this deplorable state,
+with confirmed dropsy, attended with frequent cough,
+vomiting and hiccough, he continued growing from
+bad to worse till the morning of the 8th of June,
+
+505
+
+when he died. Though I may remark that during
+the last three weeks of his life his situation was such
+that his decease was confidently expected every day,
+his ulcers having assumed a gangrenous appearance,
+being excessively fetid, and discolored blisters hav-
+ing taken place on the soles of his feet without any
+ostensible cause, which baffled the usual attempts to
+arrest their progress; and when we consider his
+former habits, his advanced age, the feebleness of his
+constitution, his constant habit of using ardent spirits
+ad libitum till the commencement of his last illness,
+so far from wondering that he died so soon, we are
+constrained to ask, How did he live so long? Con-
+cerning his conduct during his disease I have not
+much to remark, though the little I have may be
+somewhat interesting. Mr. Paine professed to be
+above the fear of death, and a great part of his con-
+versation was principally directed to give the impres-
+sion that he was perfectly willing to leave this world,
+and yet some parts of his conduct were with difficulty
+reconcilable with his belief. In the first stages of his
+illness he was satisfied to be left alone during the
+day, but he required some person to be with him at
+night, urging as his reason that he was afraid that
+he should die when unattended, and at this period
+his deportment and his principle seemed to be con-
+
+506
+
+sistent; so much so that a stranger would judge from
+some of the remarks he would make that he was an
+Infidel. I recollect being with him at night, watch-
+ing; he was very apprehensive of a speedy dissolu-
+tion, and suffered great distress of body, and perhaps
+of mind (for he was waiting the event of an applica-
+tion to the Society of Friends for permission that his
+corpse might be deposited in their grave-ground, and
+had reason to believe that the request might be
+refused), when he remarked in these words, 'I think
+I can say what they made Jesus Christ to say--"My
+God, my God! why hast thou forsaken me?" He
+went on to observe on the want of that respect which
+he conceived he merited, when I observed to him
+that I thought his corpse should be matter of least
+concern to him; that those whom he would leave
+behind him would see that he was properly interred,
+and, further, that it would be of little consequence to
+me where I was deposited provided I was buried;
+upon which he answered that he had nothing else to
+talk about, and that he would as lief talk of his death
+as of anything, but that he was not so indifferent
+about his corpse as I appeared to be.
+
+"During the latter part of his life, though his con-
+versation was equivocal, his conduct was singular;
+he could not be left alone night or day; he not only
+
+507
+
+required to have some person with him, but he must
+see that he or she was there, and would not allow
+his curtain to be closed at any time; and if, as it
+would sometimes unavoidably happen, he was left
+alone, he would scream and halloo until some person
+came to him. When relief from pain would admit,
+he seemed thoughtful and contemplative, his eyes
+being generally closed, and his hands folded upon
+his breast, although he never slept without the assist-
+ance of an anodyne. There was something remark-
+able in his conduct about this period (which comprises
+about two weeks immediately preceding his death),
+particularly when we reflect that Thomas Paine was
+the author of the 'Age of Reason.' He would call
+out during his paroxysms of distress, without inter-
+mission, 'O Lord help me! God help me! Jesus
+Christ help me! Lord help me!' etc., repeating the
+same expressions without the least variation, in a
+tone of voice that would alarm the house. It was
+this conduct which induced me to think that he had
+abandoned his former opinions, and I was more
+inclined to that belief when I understood from his
+nurse (who is a very serious and, I believe, pious
+woman), that he would occasionally inquire, when he
+saw her engaged with a book, what she was reading,
+and, being answered, and at the same time asked
+
+508
+
+whether she should read aloud, he assented, and
+would appear to give particular attention.
+
+"I took occasion during the nights of the fifth
+and sixth of June to test the strength of his opinions
+respecting revelation. I purposely made him a very
+late visit; it was a time which seemed to suit exactly
+with my errand; it was midnight, he was in great
+distress, constantly exclaiming in the words above
+mentioned, when, after a considerable preface, I
+addressed him in the following manner, the nurse
+being present: 'Mr. Paine, your opinions, by a large
+portion of the community, have been treated with
+deference, you have never been in the habit of mix-
+ing in your conversation words of coarse meaning;
+you have never indulged in the practice of profane
+swearing; you must be sensible that we are ac-
+quainted with your religious opinions as they are
+given to the world. What must we think of your
+present conduct? Why do you call upon Jesus
+Christ to help you? Do you believe that he can
+help you? Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus
+Christ? Come, now, answer me honestly. I want
+an answer from the lips of a dying man, for I verily
+believe that you will not live twenty-four hours.' I
+waited some time at the end of every question; he
+did not answer, but ceased to exclaim in the above
+
+509
+
+manner. Again I addressed him; 'Mr. Paine, you
+have not answered my questions; will you answer
+them? Allow me to ask again, do you believe? or
+let me qualify the question, do you wish to believe
+that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?' After a pause
+of some minutes, he answered, 'I have no wish to
+believe on that subject.' I then left him, and knew
+not whether he afterward spoke to any person on
+any subject, though he lived, as I before observed,
+till the morning of the 8th. Such conduct, under
+usual circumstances, I conceive absolutely unaccount-
+able, though, with diffidence, I would remark, not so
+much so in the present instance; for though the first
+necessary and general result of conviction be a sin-
+cere wish to atone for evil committed, yet it may be
+a question worthy of able consideration whether
+excessive pride of opinion, consummate vanity, and
+inordinate self-love might not prevent or retard that
+otherwise natural consequence. For my own part,
+I believe that had not Thomas Paine been such a
+distinguished Infidel he would have left less equivo-
+cal evidences of a change of opinion. Concerning
+the persons who visited Mr. Paine in his distress as
+his personal friends, I heard very little, though I may
+observe that their number was small, and of that
+number there were not wanting those who endeavor-
+
+510
+
+ed to support him in his deistical opinions, and to
+encourage him to 'die like a man,' to 'hold fast his
+integrity,' lest Christians, or, as they were pleased to
+term them, hypocrites, might take advantage of his
+weakness, and furnish themselves with a weapon by
+which they might hope to destroy their glorious sys-
+tem of morals. Numbers visited him from motives
+of benevolence and Christian charity, endeavoring to
+effect a change of mind in respect to his religious
+sentiments. The labor of such was apparently lost,
+and they pretty generally received such treatment
+from him as none but good men would risk a second
+time, though some of those persons called frequently."
+The following testimony will be new to most of
+our readers. It is from a letter written by Bishop
+Fenwick (Roman Catholic Bishop of Boston), con-
+taining a full account of a visit which he paid to
+Paine in his last illness. It was printed in the _United
+States Catholic Magazine_ for 1846; in the _Catholic
+Herald_ of Philadelphia, October 15, 1846; in a sup-
+plement to the _Hartford Courant_, October 23, 1847;
+and in _Littell's Living Age_ for January 22, 1848,
+from which we copy. Bishop Fenwick writes:
+
+"A short time before Paine died I was sent for by
+him. He was prompted to this by a poor Catholic
+woman who went to see him in his sickness, and
+
+511
+
+who told him, among other things, that in his
+wretched condition if anybody could do him any
+good it would be a Roman Catholic priest. This
+woman was an American convert (formerly a Shak-
+ing Quakeress) whom I had received into the church
+but a few weeks before. She was the bearer of this
+message to me from Paine. I stated this circum-
+stance to F. Kohlmann, at breakfast, and requested
+him to accompany me. After some solicitation on
+my part he agreed to do so? at which I was greatly
+rejoiced, because I was at the time quite young and
+inexperienced in the ministry, and was glad to have
+his assistance, as I knew, from the great reputation
+of Paine, that I should have to do with one of the
+most impious as well as infamous of men. We
+shortly after set out for the house at Greenwich
+where Paine lodged, and on the way agreed on a
+mode of proceeding with him.
+
+"We arrived at the house; a decent-looking elderly
+woman (probably his housekeeper,) came to the
+door and inquired whether we were the Catholic
+priests, for said she, 'Mr. Paine has been so much
+annoyed of late by other denominations calling upon
+him that he has left express orders with me to admit
+no one to-day but the clergymen of the Catholic
+Church. Upon assuring her that we were Catholic
+
+512
+
+clergymen she opened the door and showed us into
+the parlor. She then left the room and shortly after
+returned to inform us that Paine was asleep, and, at
+the same time, expressed a wish that we would not
+disturb him, 'for,' said she, 'he is always in a bad
+humor when roused out of his sleep. It is better we
+wait a little till he be awake.' We accordingly sat
+down and resolved to await a more favorable moment.
+'Gentlemen,' said the lady, after having taken her
+seat also, 'I really wish you may succeed with Mr.
+Paine, for he is laboring under great distress of mind
+ever since he was informed by his physicians that he
+cannot possibly live and must die shortly. He sent
+for you to-day because he was told that if any one
+could do him good you might. Possibly he may
+think you know of some remedy which his physicians
+are ignorant of. He is truly to be pitied. His cries
+when he is left alone are heart-rending. 'O Lord
+help me!' he will exclaim during his paroxysms of
+distress--'God help me--Jesus Christ help me!'
+repeating the same expressions without the least
+variation, in a tone of voice that would alarm the
+house. Sometimes he will say, 'O God, what have
+I done to suffer so much!' then, shortly after, 'But
+there is no God,' and again a little after, 'Yet if
+there should be, what would become of me hereafter.'
+
+513
+
+Thus he will continue for some time, when on a sud-
+den he will scream, as if in terror and agony, and
+call out for me by name. On one of these occasions,
+which are very frequent, I went to him and inquired
+what he wanted. 'Stay with me,' he replied, 'for
+God's sake, for I cannot bear to be left alone.' I
+then observed that I could not always be with him,
+as I had much to attend to in the house. 'Then,' said
+he, 'send even a child to stay with me, for it is a
+hell to be alone.' 'I never saw,' she concluded, 'a
+more unhappy, a more forsaken man. It seems he
+cannot reconcile himself to die.'
+
+"Such was the conversation of the woman who
+had received us, and who probably had been employ-
+ed to nurse and take care of him during his illness.
+She was a Protestant, yet seemed very desirous that
+we should afford him some relief in his state of
+abandonment, bordering on complete despair. Hav-
+ing remained thus some time in the parlor, we at
+length heard a noise in the adjoining passage-way,
+which induced us to believe that Mr. Paine, who was
+sick in that room, had awoke. We accordingly pro-
+posed to proceed thither, which was assented to by
+the woman, and she opened the door for us. On
+entering, we found him just getting out of his
+slumber. A more wretched being in appearance I
+
+514
+
+never beheld. He was lying in a bed sufficiently
+decent of itself, but at present besmeared with filth;
+his look was that of a man greatly tortured in mind;
+his eyes haggard, his countenance forbidding, and
+his whole appearance that of one whose better days
+had been one continued scene of debauch. His only
+nourishment at this time, as we were informed, was
+nothing more than milk punch, in which he indulged
+to the full extent of his weak state. He had par-
+taken, undoubtedly, but very recently of it, as the
+sides and corners of his mouth exhibited very un-
+equivocal traces of it, as well as of blood, which had
+also followed in the track and left its mark on the
+pillow. His face, to a certain extent, had also been
+besmeared with it."
+
+Immediately upon their making known the object
+of their visit, Paine interrupted the speaker by say-
+ing: "That's enough, sir; that's enough," and again
+interrupting him, "I see what you would be about.
+I wish to hear no more from you, sir. My mind is
+made up on that subject. I look upon the whole of
+the Christian scheme to be a tissue of absurdities
+and lies, and Jesus Christ to be nothing more than a
+cunning knave and impostor." He drove them out
+of the room, exclaiming: Away with you and your
+God, too; leave the room instantly; all that you
+
+515
+
+have uttered are lies--filthy lies; and if I had a
+little more time I would prove it, as I did about
+your impostor, Jesus Christ."
+
+This, we think, will suffice. We have a mass of
+letters containing statements confirmatory of what
+we have published in regard to the life and death of
+Paine, but nothing more can be required.
+
+
+
+
+INGERSOLL'S SECOND REPLY.
+
+Peoria, Nov. 2d, 1877.
+
+To the Editor of the New York Observer:
+
+You ought to have honesty enough to admit that
+you did, in your paper of July 19th, offer to prove
+that the absurd story that Thomas Paine died in
+terror and agony on account of the religious opinions
+he had expressed, was true. You ought to have
+fairness enough to admit that you called upon me
+to deposit one thousand dollars with an honest man,
+that you might, by proving that Thomas Paine did
+die in terror, obtain the money.
+
+You ought to have honor enough to admit that
+you challenged me and that you commenced the
+controversy concerning Thomas Paine.
+
+You ought to have goodness enough to admit
+that you were mistaken in the charges you made.
+
+You ought to have manhood enough to do what
+you falsely asserted that Thomas Paine did:--you
+ought to recant. You ought to admit publicly that
+you slandered the dead; that you falsified history;
+that you defamed the defenceless; that you deliber-
+
+517
+
+ately denied what you had published in your own
+paper. There is an old saying to the effect that
+open confession is good for the soul. To you is
+presented a splendid opportunity of testing the truth
+of this saying.
+
+Nothing has astonished me more than your lack
+of common honesty exhibited in this controversy. In
+your last, you quote from Dr. J. W. Francis. Why
+did you leave out that portion in which Dr. Francis
+says _that Cheetham with settled malignity wrote the
+life of Paine?_ Why did you leave out that part in
+which Dr. Francis says that Cheetham in the same
+way _slandered Alexander Hamilton and De Witt
+Clinton?_ Is it your business to suppress the truth?
+Why did you not publish the entire letter of Bishop
+Fenwick? Was it because it proved beyond all
+cavil that Thomas Paine did not recant? Was it
+because in the light of that letter Mary Roscoe,
+Mary Hinsdale and Grant Thorburn appeared un-
+worthy of belief? Dr. J. W. Francis says in the
+same article from which you quoted, "_Paine clung to
+his Infidelity until the last moment of his life!'_ Why
+did you not publish that? It was the first line im-
+mediately above what you did quote. You must
+have seen it. Why did you suppress it? A lawyer,
+doing a thing of this character, is denominated a
+
+518
+
+shyster. I do not know the appropriate word to
+designate a theologian guilty of such an act.
+
+You brought forward three witnesses, pretending
+to have personal knowledge about the life and death
+of Thomas Paine: Grant Thorburn, Mary Roscoe
+and Mary Hinsdale. In my reply I took the ground
+that Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale must have
+been the same person. I thought it impossible that
+Paine should have had a conversation with Mary
+Roscoe, and then one precisely like it with Mary
+Hinsdale. Acting upon this conviction, I proceeded
+to show that the conversation never could have hap-
+pened, that it was absurdly false to say that Paine
+asked the opinion of a girl as to his works who had
+never read but little of them. I then showed by the
+testimony of William Cobbett, that he visited Mary
+Hinsdale in 1819, taking with him a statement con-
+cerning the recantation of Paine, given him by Mr.
+Collins, and that upon being shown this statement
+she said that "it was so long ago that she could not
+speak positively to any part of the matter--that she
+would not say any part of the paper was true." At
+that time she knew nothing, and remembered noth-
+ing. I also showed that she was a kind of standing
+witness to prove that others recanted. Willett Hicks
+denounced her as unworthy of belief.
+
+519
+
+To-day the following from the New York _World_
+was received, showing that I was right in my
+conjecture:
+
+
+Tom Paine's Death-Bed.
+
+_To the Editor of the World_:
+
+Sir: I see by your paper that Bob Ingersoll dis-
+credits Mary Hinsdale's story of the scenes which
+occurred at the death-bed of Thomas Paine. No
+one who knew that good lady would for one moment
+doubt her veracity or question her testimony. Both
+she and her husband were Quaker preachers, and
+well known and respected inhabitants of New York
+City, _Ingersoll is right in his conjecture that Mary
+Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale was the same person_. Her
+maiden name was Roscoe, and she married Henry
+Hinsdale. My mother was a Roscoe, a niece of
+Mary Roscoe, and lived with her for some time. I
+have heard her relate the story of Tom Paine's dying
+remorse, as told her by her aunt, who was a witness
+to it. She says (in a letter I have just received from
+her), "he (Tom Paine) suffered fearfully from remorse,
+and renounced his Infidel principles, calling on God
+to forgive him, and wishing his pamphlets and books
+to be burned, saying he could not die in peace until
+it was done." (Rev.) A. W. Cornell.
+
+Harpersville, New York.
+
+520
+
+You will notice that the testimony of Mary Hins-
+dale has been drawing interest since 1809, and has
+materially increased. If Paine "suffered fearfully
+from remorse, renounced his Infidel opinions and
+called on God to forgive him," it is hardly generous
+for the Christian world to fasten the fangs of malice
+in the flesh of his reputation.
+
+So Mary Roscoe was Mary Hinsdale, and as
+Mary Hinsdale has been shown by her own admis-
+sion to Mr. Cobbett to have known nothing of the
+matter; and as Mary Hinsdale was not, according to
+Willet Hicks, worthy of belief--as she told a false-
+hood of the same kind about Mary Lockwood, and
+was, according to Mr. Collins, addicted to the use of
+opium--this disposes of her and her testimony.
+
+There remains upon the stand Grant Thorburn.
+Concerning this witness, I received, yesterday, from
+the eminent biographer and essayist, James Parton,
+the following epistle:
+
+Newburyport, Mass.
+
+Col. R. G. Ingersoll:
+
+Touching Grant Thorburn, I personally know him
+to have been a dishonest man. At the age of ninety-
+two he copied, with trembling hand, a piece from a
+newspaper and brought it to the office of the _Home
+Journal, as his own_. It was I who received it and
+
+521
+
+detected the deliberate forgery. If you are ever go-
+ing to continue this subject, I will give you the exact
+facts.
+
+Fervently yours,
+
+James Parton.
+
+After this, you are welcome to what remains of
+Grant Thorburn.
+
+There is one thing that I have noticed during this
+controversy regarding Thomas Paine. In no instance
+that I now call to mind has any Christian writer
+spoken respectfully of Mr. Paine. All have taken
+particular pains to call him "Tom" Paine. Is it not
+a little strange that religion should make men so
+coarse and ill-mannered?
+
+I have often wondered what these same gentle-
+men would say if I should speak of the men eminent
+in the annals of Christianity in the same way. What
+would they say if I should write about "Tim"
+Dwight, old "Ad" Clark, "Tom" Scott, "Jim"
+McKnight, "Bill" Hamilton, "Dick" Whately, "Bill"
+Paley, and "Jack" Calvin?
+
+They would _say_ of me then, just what I _think_ of
+them now.
+
+Even if we have religion, do not let us try to get
+along without good manners. Rudeness is exceed-
+ingly unbecoming, even in a saint. Persons who
+
+522
+
+forgive their enemies ought, to say the least, to
+treat with politeness those who have never injured
+them.
+
+It is exceedingly gratifying to me that I have com-
+pelled you to say that "Paine died a blaspheming
+Infidel." Hereafter it is to be hoped nothing will be
+heard about his having recanted. As an answer to
+such slander his friends can confidently quote the
+following from the _New York Observer_ of November
+ist, 1877:
+
+"WE HAVE NEVER STATED IN ANY FORM, NOR
+HAVE WE EVER SUPPOSED THAT PAINE ACTUALLY RE-
+NOUNCED HIS INFIDELITY. THE ACCOUNTS AGREE IN
+STATING THAT HE DIED A BLASPHEMING INFIDEL."
+
+This for all coming time will refute the slanders of
+the churches yet to be.
+
+Right here allow me to ask: If you never supposed
+that Paine renounced his Infidelity, why did you try
+to prove by Mary Hinsdale that which you believed
+to be untrue?
+
+From the bottom of my heart I thank myself for
+having compelled you to admit that Thomas Paine
+did not recant.
+
+For the purpose of verifying your own admission
+concerning the death of Mr. Paine, permit me to call
+your attention to the following affidavit:
+
+523
+
+Wabash, Indiana, October 27, 1877.
+
+Col. R. G. Ingersoll:
+
+Dear Sir: The following statement of facts is at
+your disposal. In the year 1833 Willet Hicks made
+a visit to Indiana and stayed over night at my father's
+house, four miles east of Richmond. In the morn-
+ing at breakfast my mother asked Willet Hicks the
+following questions:
+
+"Was thee with Thomas Paine during his last
+sickness?"
+
+Mr. Hicks said: "I was with him every day dur-
+ing the latter part of his last sickness."
+
+"Did he express any regret in regard to writing
+the 'Age of Reason,' as the published accounts say
+he did--those accounts that have the credit of ema-
+nating from his Catholic housekeeper?"
+
+Mr. Hicks replied: "He did not in any way by
+word or action."
+
+"Did he call on God or Jesus Christ, asking either
+of them to forgive his sins, or did he curse them or
+either of them?"
+
+Mr. Hicks answered: "He did not. He died as
+easy as any one I ever saw die, and I have seen
+many die in my time." William B Barnes.
+
+Subscribed and sworn to before me Oct. 27, 1877.
+
+Warren Bigler, Notary Public.
+
+524
+
+You say in your last that "Thomas Paine was
+abandoned of God." So far as this controversy is
+concerned, it seems to me that in that sentence you
+have most graphically described your own condi-
+tion.
+
+Wishing you success in all honest undertakings, I
+remain,
+
+Yours truly,
+
+Robert G. Ingersoll.
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+
+End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Vol.
+5 (of 12), by Robert G. Ingersoll
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diff --git a/38805.zip b/38805.zip
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+<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
+    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
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+<head>
+<meta name="generator" content="HTML-Kit Tools HTML Tidy plugin" />
+<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
+"text/html; charset=us-ascii" />
+<title>The Works of Robert G. Ingersoll, Volume 5 (of 12) by Robert
+G. Ingersoll</title>
+
+<style type="text/css">
+/*<![CDATA[*/
+    <!--
+                body { text-align:justify}
+    P { margin:15%;
+        margin-top:    .75em;
+        margin-bottom: .75em; }
+    H1,H2,H3,H4,H5,H6 { text-align: center; margin-left: 15%; margin-right: 15%; }
+                hr  { width: 50%; text-align: center;}
+    hr.full { width: 100%; }
+    .foot { margin-left: 20%; margin-right: 20%; text-align: justify; text-indent: -3em; font-size: 90%; }
+                .play { margin-left: 15%; margin-right: 15%; text-align: justify; font-size: 100%; }
+                img {border: 0;}
+                blockquote {font-size: 97%; margin-left: 30%; margin-right: 20%;}
+                .pagenum  { /* uncomment the next line for invisible page numbers */
+            /*  visibility: hidden;  */
+                position: absolute;
+                left: 1%;
+                font-size: smaller;
+                text-align: left;
+                color: gray;
+              } /* page numbers */
+                .figleft   {float: left; margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 1%;}
+    .figright  {float: right; margin-right: 10%; margin-left: 1%;}
+                .mynote    {background-color: #DDE; color: #000; padding: .5em;
+                margin-left: 20%; margin-right: 20%; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 95%;}
+                .toc       { margin-left: 35%; margin-bottom: .75em; font-size: 110%;}
+    .toc2      { margin-left: 5%;}
+                .indent    {font-style: italic; font-size: 100%; margin-left: 10%; margin-right: 10%;}
+    CENTER { padding: 10px;}
+                PRE    { font-family: Times; font-style: italic; font-size: 100%; margin-left: 25%;}
+    -->
+/*]]>*/
+</style>
+</head>
+<body>
+<div style="height: 8em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h1>THE WORKS OF ROBERT G. INGERSOLL</h1>
+<br />
+<h2>By Robert G. Ingersoll</h2>
+<h3>"There Can Be But Little Liberty On Earth<br />
+While Men Worship A Tyrant In Heaven."</h3>
+<br />
+<h3>In Twelve Volumes, Volume V.</h3>
+<br />
+<h2>DISCUSSIONS</h2>
+<br />
+<h3>1900</h3>
+<br />
+<h3>DRESDEN EDITION</h3>
+<br />
+<center><img alt="titlepage (57K)" src="images/titlepage.jpg"
+height="763" width="455" /></center>
+<br />
+<br />
+<center><img alt="portrait (58K)" src="images/portrait.jpg" height=
+"581" width="357" /></center>
+<br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<hr />
+<br />
+<br />
+<h2>Contents</h2>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#linkTOC">CONTENTS OF VOLUME V.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#linkPREF">PREFACE.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0002">INGERSOLL'S INTERVIEWS ON
+TALMAGE.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0003">FIRST INTERVIEW.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0004">SECOND INTERVIEW.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0005">THIRD INTERVIEW.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0006">FOURTH INTERVIEW.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0007">FIFTH INTERVIEW,</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0008">SIXTH INTERVIEW.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0009">THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0010">A VINDICATION OF THOMAS
+PAINE.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#linkCONC">CONCLUSION.</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0012">THE OBSERVER'S SECOND
+ATTACK</a></p>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0013">INGERSOLL'S SECOND
+REPLY.</a></p>
+<br />
+<br />
+<hr />
+<br />
+<br />
+<a name="linkTOC" id="linkTOC"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>CONTENTS OF VOLUME V.</h2>
+<blockquote>
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0002">INGERSOLL'S SIX INTERVIEWS ON
+TALMAGE.</a></p>
+<br />
+(1882.)<br />
+Preface&mdash;First Interview: Great Men as Witnesses<br />
+to the Truth of the Gospel&mdash;No man should quote<br />
+the Words of Another unless he is willing to<br />
+Accept all the Opinions of that Man&mdash;Reasons of<br />
+more Weight than Reputations&mdash;Would a general<br />
+Acceptance of Unbelief fill the Penitentiaries?&mdash;<br />
+My Creed&mdash;Most Criminals Orthodox&mdash;Relig-ion and<br />
+Morality not Necessarily Associates&mdash;On the<br />
+Creation of the Universe out of Omnipotence&mdash;Mr.<br />
+Talmage's Theory about the Pro-duction of Light<br />
+prior to the Creation of the Sun&mdash;The Deluge and<br />
+the Ark&mdash;Mr. Talmage's tendency to Belittle the<br />
+Bible Miracles&mdash;His Chemical, Geological, and<br />
+Agricultural Views&mdash;His Disregard of Good Manners-<br />
+-Second Interview: An Insulting Text&mdash;God's Design<br />
+in Creating Guiteau to be the Assassin of<br />
+Garfield&mdash;Mr. Talmage brings the Charge of<br />
+Blasphemy&mdash;Some Real Blasphemers&mdash;The Tabernacle<br />
+Pastor tells the exact Opposite of the Truth about<br />
+Col. Ingersoll's Attitude toward the Circulation<br />
+of Immoral Books&mdash;"Assassinating" God&mdash;Mr.<br />
+Talmage finds Nearly All the Invention of Modern<br />
+Times Mentioned in the Bible&mdash;The Reverend<br />
+Gentleman corrects the Translators of the Bible in<br />
+the Matter of the Rib Story&mdash;Denies that Polygamy<br />
+is permitted by the Old Testament&mdash;His De-fence of<br />
+Queen Victoria and Violation of the Grave of<br />
+George Eliot&mdash;Exhibits a Christian Spirit&mdash;Third<br />
+Interview: Mr. Talmage's Partiality in the<br />
+Bestowal of his Love&mdash;Denies the Right of Laymen<br />
+to Examine the Scriptures&mdash;Thinks the Infidels<br />
+Victims of Bibliophobia &mdash;He explains the Stopping<br />
+of the Sun and Moon at the Command of Joshua&mdash;<br />
+Instances a Dark Day in the Early Part of the<br />
+Century&mdash;Charges that Holy Things are Made Light<br />
+of&mdash;Reaffirms his Confidence in the Whale and<br />
+Jonah Story&mdash;The Commandment which Forbids the<br />
+making of Graven Images&mdash;Affirmation that the<br />
+Bible is the Friend of Woman&mdash;The Present<br />
+Condition of Woman&mdash;Fourth Interview: Colonel<br />
+Ingersoll Compared by Mr. Talmage tojehoiakim, who<br />
+Consigned Writings of Jeremiah to the Flames&mdash;An<br />
+Intimation that Infidels wish to have all copies<br />
+of the Bible Destroyed by Fire&mdash;Laughter<br />
+Deprecated&mdash;Col. Ingersoll Accused of Denouncing<br />
+his Father&mdash;Mr. Talmage holds that a Man may be<br />
+Perfectly Happy in Heaven with His Mother in Hell-<br />
+-Challenges the Infidel to Read a Chapter from St.<br />
+John&mdash;On the "Chief Solace of the World"&mdash;Dis-<br />
+covers an Attempt is being made to Put Out the<br />
+Light-houses of the Farther Shore&mdash;Affirms our<br />
+Debt to Christianity for Schools, Hospitals,<br />
+etc.&mdash;Denies that Infidels have ever Done any<br />
+Good&mdash;<br />
+Fifth Interview: Inquiries if Men gather Grapes of<br />
+Thorns, or Figs of Thistles, and is Answered in<br />
+the Negative&mdash;Resents the Charge that the Bible is<br />
+a Cruel Book&mdash;Demands to Know where the Cruelty of<br />
+the Bible Crops out in the Lives of Christians&mdash;<br />
+Col. Ingersoll Accused of saying that the Bible<br />
+is a Collection of Polluted Writings&mdash;Mr. Talmage<br />
+Asserts the Orchestral Harmony of the Scriptures<br />
+from Genesis to Revelation, and Repudiates the<br />
+Theory of Contradictions&mdash;His View of Mankind<br />
+Indicated in Quotations from his Confession of<br />
+Faith&mdash;He Insists that the Bible is Scientific&mdash;<br />
+Traces the New Testament to its Source with St.<br />
+John&mdash;Pledges his Word that no Man ever Died for a<br />
+Lie Cheerfully and Triumphantly&mdash;As to Prophecies<br />
+and Predictions&mdash;Alleged "Prophetic" Fate of the<br />
+Jewish People&mdash;Sixth Interview: Dr. Talmage takes<br />
+the Ground that the Unrivalled Circulation of the<br />
+Bible Proves that it is Inspired&mdash;Forgets' that a<br />
+Scientific Fact does not depend on the Vote of<br />
+Numbers&mdash;Names some Christian Millions&mdash;His<br />
+Arguments Characterized as the Poor-est, Weakest,<br />
+and Best Possible in Support of the Doctrine of<br />
+Inspira-tion&mdash;Will God, in Judging a Man, take<br />
+into Consideration the Cir-cumstances of that<br />
+Man's Life?&mdash;Satisfactory Reasons for Not Believ-<br />
+ing that the Bible is inspired.<br />
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0009">THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.</a></p>
+THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.<br />
+The Pith and Marrow of what Mr. Talmage has been<br />
+Pleased to Say, set forth in the form of a Shorter<br />
+Catechism.<br />
+<p class="toc"><a href="#link0010">A VINDICATION OF THOMAS
+PAINE.</a></p>
+<br />
+(1877.)<br />
+Letter to the New York Observer&mdash;An Offer to Pay<br />
+One Thousand Dollars in Gold for Proof that Thomas<br />
+Paine or Voltaire Died in Terror because of any<br />
+Religious Opinions Either had Expressed&mdash;<br />
+Proposition to Create a Tribunal to Hear the<br />
+Evidence&mdash;The Ob-server, after having Called upon<br />
+Col. Ingersoll to Deposit the Money, and<br />
+Characterized his Talk as "Infidel 'Buncombe,'"<br />
+Denies its Own Words, but attempts to Prove them&mdash;<br />
+Its Memory Refreshed by Col. Ingersoll and the<br />
+Slander Refuted&mdash;Proof that Paine did Not Recant -<br />
+-Testimony of Thomas Nixon, Daniel Pelton, Mr.<br />
+Jarvis, B. F. Has-kin, Dr. Manley, Amasa<br />
+Woodsworth, Gilbert Vale, Philip Graves, M. D.,<br />
+Willet Hicks, A. C. Hankinson, John Hogeboom, W.<br />
+J. Hilton, Tames Cheetham, Revs. Milledollar and<br />
+Cunningham, Mrs. Hedden, Andrew A. Dean, William<br />
+Carver,&mdash;The Statements of Mary Roscoe and Mary<br />
+Hindsdale Examined&mdash;William Cobbett's Account of a<br />
+Call upon Mary Hinsdale&mdash;Did Thomas Paine live the<br />
+Life of a Drunken Beast, and did he Die a Drunken,<br />
+Cowardly, and Beastly Death?&mdash;Grant Thorbum's<br />
+Charges Examined&mdash;Statement of the Rev. J. D.<br />
+Wickham, D.D., shown to be Utterly False&mdash;False<br />
+Witness of the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D.&mdash;W. H.<br />
+Ladd, James Cheetham, and Mary Hinsdale&mdash;Paine's<br />
+Note to Cheetham&mdash;Mr-Staple, Mr. Purdy, Col. John<br />
+Fellows, James Wilburn, Walter Morton, Clio<br />
+Rickman, Judge Herttell, H. Margary, Elihu Palmer,<br />
+Mr.<br />
+XV<br />
+Lovett, all these Testified that Paine was a<br />
+Temperate Man&mdash;Washington's Letter to Paine&mdash;<br />
+Thomas Jefferson's&mdash;Adams and Washing-ton on<br />
+"Common Sense"&mdash;-James Monroe's Tribute&mdash;<br />
+Quotations from Paine&mdash;Paine's Estate and His<br />
+Will&mdash;The Observer's Second Attack (p. 492):<br />
+Statements of Elkana Watson, William Carver, Rev.<br />
+E. F. Hatfield, D.D., James Cheetham, Dr. J. W.<br />
+Francis, Dr. Manley, Bishop Fenwick&mdash;Ingersoll's<br />
+Second Reply (p. 516): Testimony Garbled by the<br />
+Editor of the Observer&mdash;Mary Roscoeand Mary Hins-<br />
+dale the Same Person&mdash;Her Reputation for Veracity-<br />
+-Letter from Rev. A. W. Cornell&mdash;Grant Thorburn<br />
+Exposed by James Parton&mdash;The Observer's Admission<br />
+that Paine did not Recant&mdash;Affidavit of<br />
+William B. Barnes.<br /></blockquote>
+<a name="linkPREF" id="linkPREF"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>PREFACE.</h2>
+<p>SEVERAL people, having read the sermons of Mr. Talmage in which
+he reviews some of my lectures, have advised me not to pay the
+slightest attention to the Brooklyn divine. They think that no new
+arguments have been brought forward, and they have even gone so far
+as to say that some of the best of the old ones have been left
+out.</p>
+<p>After thinking the matter over, I became satisfied that my
+friends were mistaken, that they had been carried away by the
+general current of modern thought, and were not in a frame of mind
+to feel the force of the arguments of Mr. Talmage, or to clearly
+see the candor that characterizes his utterances.</p>
+<p>At the first reading, the logic of these sermons does not
+impress you. The style is of a character calculated</p>
+<center>VI</center>
+<p>to throw the searcher after facts and arguments off his guard.
+The imagination of the preacher is so lurid; he is so free from the
+ordinary forms of expression; his statements are so much stranger
+than truth, and his conclusions so utterly independent of his
+premises, that the reader is too astonished to be convinced. Not
+until I had read with great care the six discourses delivered for
+my benefit had I any clear and well-defined idea of the logical
+force of Mr. Talmage. I had but little conception of his candor,
+was almost totally ignorant of his power to render the simple
+complex and the plain obscure by the mutilation of metaphor and the
+incoherence of inspired declamation. Neither did I know the
+generous accuracy with which he states the position of an opponent,
+and the fairness he exhibits in a religious discussion.</p>
+<p>He has without doubt studied the Bible as closely and critically
+as he has the works of Buckle and Darwin, and he seems to have paid
+as much attention to scientific subjects as most theologians. His
+theory of light and his views upon geology are strikingly original,
+and his astronomical theories are certainly as profound as
+practical. If his statements can be relied upon, he has
+successfully refuted the teachings of</p>
+<center>VII</center>
+<p>Humboldt and Haeckel, and exploded the blunders of Spencer and
+Tyndall. Besides all this, he has the courage of his
+convictions&mdash;he does not quail before a fact, and he does not
+strike his colors even to a demonstration. He cares nothing for
+human experience. He cannot be put down with statistics, nor driven
+from his position by the certainties of science. He cares neither
+for the persistence of force, nor the indestructibility of
+matter.</p>
+<p>He believes in the Bible, and he has the bravery to defend his
+belief. In this, he proudly stands almost alone. He knows that the
+salvation of the world depends upon a belief in his creed. He knows
+that what are called "the sciences" are of no importance in the
+other world. He clearly sees that it is better to live and die
+ignorant here, if you can wear a crown of glory hereafter. He knows
+it is useless to be perfectly familiar with all the sciences in
+this world, and then in the next "lift up your eyes, being in
+torment." He knows, too, that God will not punish any man for
+denying a fact in science. A man can deny the rotundity of the
+earth, the attraction of gravitation, the form of the earths orbit,
+or the nebular hypothesis, with perfect impunity. He is not bound
+to be correct upon any philo</p>
+<center>VIII</center>
+<p>sophical subject. He is at liberty to deny and ridicule the rule
+of three, conic sections, and even the multiplication table. God
+permits every human being to be mistaken upon every subject but
+one. No man can lose his soul by denying physical facts. Jehovah
+does not take the slightest pride in his geology,</p>
+<p>or in his astronomy, or in mathematics, or in any school of
+philosophy&mdash;he is jealous only of his reputation as the author
+of the Bible. You may deny everything else in the universe except
+that book. This being so, Mr. Talmage takes the safe side, and
+insists that the Bible is inspired. He knows that at the day of
+judgment, not a scientific question will be asked. He knows that
+the H&aelig;ckels and Huxleys will, on that terrible day, regret
+that they ever learned to read. He knows that there is no "saving
+grace" in any department of human knowledge; that mathematics and
+all the exact sciences and all the philosophies will be worse than
+useless. He knows that inventors, discoverers, thinkers and
+investigators, have no claim upon the mercy of Jehovah; that the
+educated will envy the ignorant, and that the writers and thinkers
+will curse their books.</p>
+<p>He knows that man cannot be saved through what he
+knows&mdash;but only by means of what he</p>
+<center>IX</center>
+<p>believes. Theology is not a science. If it were, God would
+forgive his children for being mistaken about it. If it could be
+proved like geology, or astronomy, there would be no merit in
+believing it. From a belief in the Bible, Mr. Talmage is not to be
+driven by uninspired evidence. He knows that his logic is liable to
+lead him astray, and that his reason cannot be depended upon. He
+believes that scientific men are no authority in matters concerning
+which nothing can be known, and he does not wish to put his soul in
+peril, by examining by the light of reason, the evidences of the
+supernatural.</p>
+<p>He is perfectly consistent with his creed. What happens to us
+here is of no consequence compared with eternal joy or pain. The
+ambitions, honors, glories and triumphs of this world, compared
+with eternal things, are less than naught.</p>
+<p>Better a cross here and a crown there, than a feast here and a
+fire there.</p>
+<p>Lazarus was far more fortunate than Dives. The purple and fine
+linen of this short life are as nothing compared with the robes of
+the redeemed.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage knows that philosophy is unsafe&mdash; that the
+sciences are sirens luring souls to eternal wreck. He knows that
+the deluded searchers after</p>
+<center>X</center>
+<p>facts are planting thorns in their own pillows&mdash;that the
+geologists are digging pits for themselves, and that the
+astronomers are robbing their souls of the heaven they explore. He
+knows that thought, capacity, and intellectual courage are
+dangerous, and this belief gives him a feeling of personal
+security.</p>
+<p>The Bible is adapted to the world as it is. Most people are
+ignorant, and but few have the capacity to comprehend philosophical
+and scientific subjects, and if salvation depended upon
+understanding even one of the sciences, nearly everybody would be
+lost. Mr. Talmage sees that it was exceedingly merciful in God to
+base salvation on belief instead of on brain. Millions can believe,
+while only a few can understand. Even the effort to understand is a
+kind of treason born of pride and ingratitude. This being so, it is
+far safer, far better, to be credulous than critical. You are
+offered an infinite reward for believing the Bible. If you examine
+it you may find it impossible for you to believe it. Consequently,
+examination is dangerous. Mr. Talmage knows that it is not
+necessary to understand the Bible in order to believe it. You must
+believe it first. Then, if on reading it you find anything that
+appears false, absurd, or impossible, you may be sure that it is
+only an appearance, and that the real</p>
+<center>XI</center>
+<p>fault is in yourself. It is certain that persons wholly
+incapable of reasoning are absolutely safe, and that to be born
+brainless is to be saved in advance.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage takes the ground,&mdash;and certainly from his point
+of view nothing can be more reasonable &mdash;that thought should
+be avoided, after one has "experienced religion" and has been the
+subject of "regeneration." Every sinner should listen to sermons,
+read religious books, and keep thinking, until he becomes a
+Christian. Then he should stop. After that, thinking is not the
+road to heaven. The real point and the real difficulty is to stop
+thinking just at the right time. Young Christians, who have no idea
+of what they are doing, often go on thinking after joining the
+church, and in this way heresy is born, and heresy is often the
+father of infidelity. If Christians would follow the advice and
+example of Mr. Talmage all disagreements about doctrine would be
+avoided. In this way the church could secure absolute intellectual
+peace and all the disputes, heartburnings, jealousies and hatreds
+born of thought, discussion and reasoning, would be impossible.</p>
+<p>In the estimation of Mr. Talmage, the man who doubts and
+examines is not fit for the society of angels. There are no
+disputes, no discussions in</p>
+<center>XII</center>
+<p>heaven. The angels do not think; they believe, they enjoy. The
+highest form of religion is repression. We should conquer the
+passions and destroy desire. We should control the mind and stop
+thinking. In this way we "offer ourselves a "living sacrifice,
+holy, acceptable unto God." When desire dies, when thought ceases,
+we shall be pure. &mdash;This is heaven.</p>
+<p>Robert G. Ingersoll.</p>
+<p>Washington, D. C,</p>
+<p>April; 1882.</p>
+<a name="link0002" id="link0002"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>INGERSOLL'S INTERVIEWS ON TALMAGE.</h2>
+<a name="link0003" id="link0003"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>FIRST INTERVIEW.</h2>
+<p>Polonius. My lord, I will use them according to their
+desert.</p>
+<p>Hamlet. God's bodikins, man, much better: use every man after
+his desert, and who should 'scape whipping? Use them after your own
+honor and dignity: the less they deserve, the more merit is in your
+bounty.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have you read the sermon of</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage, in which he exposes your misrepresentations?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I have read such reports as appeared in some of
+the New York papers.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of what he has to say?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Some time ago I gave it as my opinion of Mr.
+Talmage that, while he was a man of most excellent judgment, he was
+somewhat deficient in imagination. I find that he has the disease
+that seems</p>
+<center>16</center>
+<p>to afflict most theologians, and that is, a kind of intellectual
+toadyism, that uses the names of supposed great men instead of
+arguments. It is perfectly astonishing to the average preacher that
+any one should have the temerity to differ, on the subject of
+theology, with Andrew Jackson, Daniel Webster, and other gentlemen
+eminent for piety during their lives, but who, as a rule, expressed
+their theological opinions a few minutes before dissolution. These
+ministers are perfectly delighted to have some great politician,
+some judge, soldier, or president, certify to the truth of the
+Bible and to the moral character of Jesus Christ.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage insists that if a witness is false in one
+particular, his entire testimony must be thrown away. Daniel
+Webster was in favor of the Fugitive Slave Law, and thought it the
+duty of the North to capture the poor slave-mother. He was willing
+to stand between a human being and his freedom. He was willing to
+assist in compelling persons to work without any pay except such
+marks of the lash as they might receive. Yet this man is brought
+forward as a witness for the truth of the gospel. If he was false
+in his testimony as to liberty, what is his affidavit worth as to
+the value of Christianity? Andrew Jackson was a brave man, a good
+general, a patriot second to none,</p>
+<center>17</center>
+<p>an excellent judge of horses, and a brave duelist. I admit that
+in his old age he relied considerably upon the atonement. I think
+Jackson was really a very great man, and probably no President
+impressed himself more deeply upon the American people than the
+hero of New Orleans, but as a theologian he was, in my judgment, a
+most decided failure, and his opinion as to the authenticity of the
+Scriptures is of no earthly value. It was a subject upon which he
+knew probably as little as Mr. Talmage does about modern
+infidelity. Thousands of people will quote Jackson in favor of
+religion, about which he knew nothing, and yet have no confidence
+in his political opinions, although he devoted the best part of his
+life to politics.</p>
+<p>No man should quote the words of another, in place of an
+argument, unless he is willing to accept all the opinions of that
+man. Lord Bacon denied the Copernican</p>
+<p>system of astronomy, and, according to Mr. Talmage, having made
+that mistake, his opinions upon other subjects are equally
+worthless. Mr. Wesley believed in ghosts, witches, and personal
+devils, yet upon many subjects I have no doubt his opinions were
+correct. The truth is, that nearly everybody is right about some
+things and wrong about most things; and if a man's testimony is not
+to be taken until he is</p>
+<center>18</center>
+<p>right on every subject, witnesses will be extremely scarce.</p>
+<p>Personally, I care nothing about names. It makes no difference
+to me what the supposed great men of the past have said, except as
+what they have said contains an argument; and that argument is
+worth to me the force it naturally has upon my mind. Christians
+forget that in the realm of reason there are no serfs and no
+monarchs. When you submit to an argument, you do not submit to the
+man who made it. Christianity demands a certain obedience, a
+certain blind, unreasoning faith, and parades before the eyes of
+the ignorant, with great pomp and pride, the names of kings,
+soldiers, and statesmen who have admitted the truth of the Bible.
+Mr. Talmage introduces as a witness the Rev. Theodore Parker. This
+same Theodore Parker denounced the Presbyterian creed as the most
+infamous of all creeds, and said that the worst heathen god,
+wearing a necklace of live snakes, was a representation of mercy
+when compared with the God of John Calvin. Now, if this witness is
+false in any particular, of course he cannot be believed, according
+to Mr. Talmage, upon any subject, and yet Mr. Talmage introduces
+him upon the stand as a good witness.</p>
+<center>19</center>
+<p>Although I care but little for names, still I will suggest that,
+in all probability, Humboldt knew more upon this subject than all
+the pastors in the world. I certainly would have as much confidence
+in the opinion of Goethe as in that of William H. Seward; and as
+between Seward and Lincoln, I should take Lincoln; and when you
+come to Presidents, for my part, if I were compelled to pin my
+faith on the sleeve of anybody, I should take Jefferson's coat in
+preference to Jackson's. I believe that Haeckel is, to say the
+least, the equal of any theologian we have in this country, and the
+late John W. Draper certainly knew as much upon these great
+questions as the average parson. I believe that Darwin has
+investigated some of these things, that Tyndall and Huxley have
+turned their minds somewhat in the same direction, that Helmholtz
+has a few opinions, and that, in fact, thousands of able,
+intelligent and honest men differ almost entirely with Webster and
+Jackson.</p>
+<p>So far as I am concerned, I think more of reasons than of
+reputations, more of principles than of persons, more of nature
+than of names, more of facts, than of faiths.</p>
+<p>It is the same with books as with persons. Probably there is not
+a book in the world entirely destitute</p>
+<center>20</center>
+<p>of truth, and not one entirely exempt from error. The Bible is
+like other books. There are mistakes in it, side by side with
+truths,&mdash;passages inculcating murder, and others exalting
+mercy; laws devilish and tyrannical, and others filled with wisdom
+and justice. It is foolish to say that if you accept a part, you
+must accept the whole. You must accept that which commends itself
+to your heart and brain. There never was a doctrine that a witness,
+or a book, should be thrown entirely away, because false in one
+particular. If in any particular the book, or the man, tells the
+truth, to that extent the truth should be accepted.</p>
+<p>Truth is made no worse by the one who tells it, and a lie gets
+no real benefit from the reputation of its author.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of the statement that a
+general belief in your teachings would fill all the penitentiaries,
+and that in twenty years there would be a hell in this world worse
+than the one expected in the other?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. My creed is this:</p>
+<p>1. Happiness is the only good.</p>
+<p>2. The way to be happy, is to make others happy.</p>
+<center>21</center>
+<p>Other things being equal, that man is happiest who is nearest
+just&mdash;who is truthful, merciful and intelligent&mdash; in
+other words, the one who lives in accordance with the conditions of
+life.</p>
+<p>3. The time to be happy is now, and the place to be happy, is
+here.</p>
+<p>4. Reason is the lamp of the mind&mdash;the only torch of
+progress; and instead of blowing that out and depending upon
+darkness and dogma, it is far better to increase that sacred
+light.</p>
+<p>5. Every man should be the intellectual proprietor of himself,
+honest with himself, and intellectually hospitable; and upon every
+brain reason should be enthroned as king.</p>
+<p>6. Every man must bear the consequences, at least of his own
+actions. If he puts his hands in the fire, his hands must smart,
+and not the hands of another. In other words: each man must eat the
+fruit of the tree he plants.</p>
+<p>I can not conceive that the teaching of these doctrines would
+fill penitentiaries, or crowd the gallows. The doctrine of
+forgiveness&mdash;the idea that somebody else can suffer in place
+of the guilty&mdash;the notion that just at the last the whole
+account can be settled&mdash; these ideas, doctrines, and notions
+are calculated to fill</p>
+<center>22</center>
+<p>penitentiaries. Nothing breeds extravagance like the credit
+system.</p>
+<p>Most criminals of the present day are orthodox believers, and
+the gallows seems to be the last round of the ladder reaching from
+earth to heaven. The Rev. Dr. Sunderland, of this city, in his
+sermon on the assassination of Garfield, takes the ground that God
+permitted the murder for the purpose of opening the eyes of the
+people to the evil effects of infidelity. According to this
+minister, God, in order to show his hatred of infidelity,
+"inspired," or allowed, one Christian to assassinate another.</p>
+<p>Religion and morality do not necessarily go together. Mr.
+Talmage will insist to-day that morality is not sufficient to save
+any man from eternal punishment. As a matter of fact, religion has
+often been the enemy of morality. The moralist has been denounced
+by the theologians. He sustains the same relation to Christianity
+that the moderate drinker does to the totalabstinence society. The
+total-abstinence people say that the example of the moderate
+drinker is far worse upon the young than that of the
+drunkard&mdash;that the drunkard is a warning, while the moderate
+drinker is a perpetual temptation. So Christians say of moralists.
+According to them, the moralist sets a worse</p>
+<center>23</center>
+<p>example than the criminal. The moralist not only insists that a
+man can be a good citizen, a kind husband, an affectionate father,
+without religion, but demonstrates the truth of his doctrine by his
+own life; whereas the criminal admits that in and of himself he is
+nothing, and can do nothing, but that he needs assistance from the
+church and its ministers.</p>
+<p>The worst criminals of the modern world have been
+Christians&mdash;I mean by that, believers in Christianity&mdash;
+and the most monstrous crimes of the modern world have been
+committed by the most zealous believers. There is nothing in
+orthodox religion, apart from the morality it teaches, to prevent
+the commission oF crime. On the other hand, the perpetual proffer
+of forgiveness is a direct premium upon what Christians are pleased
+to call the commission of sin.</p>
+<p>Christianity has produced no greater character than Epictetus,
+no greater sovereign than Marcus Aurelius. The wickedness of the
+past was a good deal like that of the present. As a rule, kings
+have been wicked in direct proportion to their power&mdash;their
+power having been lessened, their crimes have decreased. As a
+matter of fact, paganism, of itself, did not produce any great men;
+neither has Christianity. Millions of influences determine
+individual character, and the re</p>
+<center>24</center>
+<p>ligion of the country in which a man happens to be born may
+determine many of his opinions, without influencing, to any great
+extent, his real character.</p>
+<p>There have been brave, honest, and intelligent men in and out of
+every church.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage says that you insist that,
+according to the Bible, the universe was made out of nothing, and
+he denounces your statement as a gross misrepresentation. What have
+you stated upon that subject?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. What I said was substantially this: "We "are told
+in the first chapter of Genesis, that in the "beginning God created
+the heaven and the earth. "If this means anything, it means that
+God pro"duced&mdash;caused to exist, called into being&mdash;the
+"heaven and the earth. It will not do to say that "God formed the
+heaven and the earth of previously "existing matter. Moses conveys,
+and intended to "convey, the idea that the matter of which the
+"universe is composed was created."</p>
+<p>This has always been my position. I did not suppose that nothing
+was used as the raw material; but</p>
+<p>if the Mosaic account means anything, it means that whereas
+there was nothing, God caused something to</p>
+<center>25</center>
+<p>exist&mdash;created what we know as matter. I can not conceive
+of something being made, created, without anything to make anything
+with. I have no more confidence in fiat worlds than I have in fiat
+money. Mr. Talmage tells us that God did not make the universe out
+of <i>nothing</i>, but out of "omnipotence." Exactly how God
+changed "omnipotence" into matter is not stated. If there was
+<i>nothing</i> in the universe, <i>omnipotence</i> could do you no
+good. The weakest man in the world can lift as much <i>nothing</i>
+as God.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage seems to think that to create something from nothing
+is simply a question of strength&mdash;that it requires infinite
+muscle&mdash;that it is only a question of biceps. Of course,
+omnipotence is an attribute, not an entity, not a raw material; and
+the idea that something can be made out of omnipotence&mdash;using
+that as the raw material&mdash;is infinitely absurd. It would have
+been equally logical to say that God made the universe out of his
+omniscience, or his omnipresence, or his unchangeableness, or out
+of his honesty, his holiness, or his incapacity to do evil. I
+confess my utter inability to understand, or even to suspect, what
+the reverend gentleman means, when he says that God created the
+universe out of his "omnipotence."</p>
+<p>I admit that the Bible does not tell when God created</p>
+<center>26</center>
+<p>the universe. It is simply said that he did this "in the
+beginning." We are left, however, to infer that "the beginning" was
+Monday morning, and that on the first Monday God created the matter
+in an exceedingly chaotic state; that on Tuesday he made a
+firmament to divide the waters from the waters; that on Wednesday
+he gathered the waters together in seas and allowed the dry land to
+appear. We are also told that on that day "the earth brought forth
+grass and herb "yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding
+"fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind." This was before
+the creation of the sun, but Mr. Talmage takes the ground that
+there are many other sources of light; that "there may have been
+volcanoes in active operation on other planets." I have my doubts,
+however, about the light of volcanoes being sufficient to produce
+or sustain vegetable life, and think it a little doubtful about
+trees growing only by "volcanic glare." Neither do I think one
+could depend upon "three thousand miles of liquid granite" for the
+production of grass and trees, nor upon "light that rocks might
+emit in the process of crystallization." I doubt whether trees
+would succeed simply with the assistance of the "Aurora Borealis or
+the Aurora Australis." There are other sources of light, not
+mentioned by</p>
+<center>27</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage&mdash;lightning-bugs, phosphorescent beetles, and
+fox-fire. I should think that it would be humiliating, in this age,
+for an orthodox preacher to insist that vegetation could exist upon
+this planet without the light of the sun&mdash;that trees could
+grow, blossom and bear fruit, having no light but the flames of
+volcanoes, or that emitted by liquid granite, or thrown off by the
+crystallization of rocks.</p>
+<p>There is another thing, also, that should not be forgotten, and
+that is, that there is an even balance forever kept between the
+totals of animal and vegetable life&mdash;that certain forms of
+animal life go with certain forms of vegetable life. Mr. Haeckel
+has shown that "in the first epoch, alg&aelig; and skull-less
+vertebrates were found together; in the second, ferns and fishes;
+in the third, pines and reptiles; in the fourth, foliaceous</p>
+<p>forests and mammals." Vegetable and animal life sustain a
+necessary relation; they exist together; they act and interact, and
+each depends upon the other. The real point of difference between
+Mr. Talmage and myself is this: He says that God made the universe
+out of his "omnipotence," and I say that, although I know nothing
+whatever upon the subject, my opinion is, that the universe has
+existed from eternity&mdash;that it continually changes in form,
+but that it never was</p>
+<center>28</center>
+<p>created or called into being by any power. I think that all that
+is, is all the God there is.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges you with having
+misrepresented the Bible story of the deluge. Has he correctly
+stated your position?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that the flood was
+only partial, and was, after all, not much of a flood. The Bible
+tells us that God said he would "destroy all flesh wherein is the
+breath of life from "under heaven, and that everything that is in
+the "earth shall die;" that God also said: "I will destroy "man,
+whom I have created, from the face of the "earth; both man and
+beast and the creeping thing "and the fowls of the air, and every
+living substance "that I have made will I destroy from off the face
+of "the earth."</p>
+<p>I did not suppose that there was any miracle in the Bible larger
+than the credulity of Mr. Talmage. The flood story, however, seems
+to be a little more than he can bear. He is like the witness who
+stated that he had read <i>Gullivers Travels</i>, the <i>Stories of
+Munchausen</i>, and the <i>Flying Wife</i>, including <i>Robinson
+Crusoe</i>, and believed them all; but that Wirt's <i>Life of
+Patrick Henry</i> was a litde more than he could stand.</p>
+<center>29</center>
+<p>It is strange that a man who believes that God created the
+universe out of "omnipotence" should believe that he had not enough
+omnipotence left to drown a world the size of this. Mr. Talmage
+seeks to make the story of the flood reasonable. The moment it is
+reasonable, it ceases to be miraculous. Certainly God cannot afford
+to reward a man with eternal joy for believing a reasonable story.
+Faith is only necessary when the story is unreasonable, and if the
+flood only gets small enough, I can believe it myself. I ask for
+evidence, and Mr. Talmage seeks to make the story so little that it
+can be believed without evidence. He tells us that it was a kind of
+"local option" flood&mdash;a little wet for that part of the
+country.</p>
+<p>Why was it necessary to save the birds? They certainly could
+have gotten out of the way of a real small flood. Of the birds,
+Noah took fourteen of each species. He was commanded to take of the
+fowls of the air by sevens&mdash;seven of each sex&mdash;and, as
+there are at least 12,500 species, Noah collected an aviary of
+about 175,000 birds, provided the flood was general. If it was
+local, there are no means of determining the number. But why, if
+the flood was local, should he have taken any of the fowls of the
+air into his ark?</p>
+<center>30</center>
+<p>All they had to do was to fly away, or "roost high;" and it
+would have been just as easy for God to have implanted in them, for
+the moment, the instinct of getting out of the way as the instinct
+of hunting the ark. It would have been quite a saving of room and
+provisions, and would have materially lessened the labor and
+anxiety of Noah and his sons.</p>
+<p>Besides, if it had been a partial flood, and great enough to
+cover the highest mountains in that country, the highest mountain
+being about seventeen thousand feet, the flood would have been
+covered with a sheet of ice several thousand feet in thickness. If
+a column of water could have been thrown seventeen thousand feet
+high and kept stationary, several thousand feet of the upper end
+would have frozen. If, however, the deluge was general, then the
+atmosphere would have been forced out the same on all sides, and
+the climate remained substantially normal.</p>
+<p>Nothing can be more absurd than to attempt to explain the flood
+by calling it partial.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage also says that the window ran clear round the ark,
+and that if I had only known as much Hebrew as a man could put on
+his little finger, I would have known that the window went clear
+round. To this I reply that, if his position is correct, then
+the</p>
+<center>31</center>
+<p>original translators of King James' edition did not know as much
+Hebrew as they could have put on their little fingers; and yet I am
+obliged to believe their translation or be eternally damned. If the
+window went clear round, the inspired writer should have said so,
+and the learned translators should have given us the truth. No one
+pretends that there was more than one door, and yet the same
+language is used about the door, except this&mdash;that the exact
+size of the window is given, and the only peculiarity mentioned as
+to the door is that it shut from the outside. For any one to see
+that Mr. Talmage is wrong on the window question, it is only
+necessary to read the story of the deluge.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage also endeavors to decrease the depth of the flood.
+If the flood did not cover the highest hills, many people might
+have been saved. He also insists that all the water did not come
+from the rains, but that "the fountains of the great deep were
+broken "up." What are "the fountains of the great deep"? How would
+their being "broken up" increase the depth of the water? He seems
+to imagine that these "fountains" were in some way
+imprisoned&mdash;anxious to get to the surface, and that, at that
+time, an opportunity was given for water to run up hill, or in
+some</p>
+<center>32</center>
+<p>mysterious way to rise above its level. According to the
+account, the ark was at the mercy of the waves for at least seven
+months. If this flood was only partial, it seems a little curious
+that the water did not seek its level in less than seven months.
+With anything like a fair chance, by that time most of it would
+have found its way to the sea again.</p>
+<p>There is in the literature of ignorance no more perfectly absurd
+and cruel story than that of the deluge.</p>
+<p>I am very sorry that Mr. Talmage should disagree with some of
+the great commentators. Dr. Scott tells us that, in all
+probability, the angels assisted in getting the animals into the
+ark. Dr. Henry insists that the waters in the bowels of the earth,
+at God's command, sprung up and flooded the earth. Dr. Clark tells
+us that it would have been much easier for God to have destroyed
+all the people and made some new ones, but that he did not want to
+waste anything. Dr. Henry also tells us that the lions, while in
+the ark, ate straw like oxen. Nothing could be more amusing than to
+see a few lions eating good, dry straw. This commentator assures us
+that the waters rose so high that the loftiest mountains were
+overflowed fifteen cubits, so that salvation was not</p>
+<center>33</center>
+<p>hoped for from any hills or mountains. He tells us that some of
+the people got on top of the ark, and hoped to shift for
+themselves, but that, in all probability, they were washed off by
+the rain. When we consider that the rain must have fallen at the
+rate of about eight hundred feet a day, I am inclined to think that
+they were washed off.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage has clearly misrepresented the Bible. He is not
+prepared to believe the story as it is told. The seeds of
+infidelity seem to be germinating in his mind. His position no
+doubt will be a great relief to most of his hearers. After this,
+their credulity will not be strained. They can say that there was
+probably quite a storm, some rain, to an extent that rendered it
+necessary for Noah and his family&mdash;his dogs, cats, and
+chickens&mdash;to get in a boat. This would not be unreasonable.
+The same thing happens almost every year on the shores of great
+rivers, and consequently the story of the flood is an exceedingly
+reasonable one.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage also endeavors to account for the miraculous
+collection of the animals in the ark by the universal instinct to
+get out of the rain. There are at least two objections to this: 1.
+The animals went into the ark before the rain commenced; 2. I</p>
+<center>34</center>
+<p>have never noticed any great desire on the part of ducks, geese,
+and loons to get out of the water. Mr. Talmage must have been
+misled by a line from an old nursery book that says: "And the
+little fishes got "under the bridge to keep out of the rain." He
+tells us that Noah described what he saw. He is the first
+theologian who claims that Genesis was written by Noah, or that
+Noah wrote any account of the flood. Most Christians insist that
+the account of the flood was written by Moses, and that he was
+inspired to write it. Of course, it will not do for me to say that
+Mr. Talmage has misrepresented the facts.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You are also charged with misrepresentation in
+your statement as to where the ark at last rested. It is claimed by
+Mr. Talmage that there is nothing in the Bible to show that the ark
+rested on the highest mountains.</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course I have no knowledge as to where the ark
+really came to anchor, but after it struck bottom, we are told that
+a dove was sent out, and that the dove found no place whereon to
+rest her foot. If the ark touched ground in the low country, surely
+the mountains were out of water, and an ordinary mountain
+furnishes, as a rule, space enough</p>
+<center>35</center>
+<p>for a dove's foot. We must infer that the ark rested on the only
+land then above water, or near enough above water to strike the
+keel of Noah's boat. Mount Ararat is about seventeen thousand feet
+high; so I take it that the top of that mountain was where Noah ran
+aground&mdash;otherwise, the account means nothing.</p>
+<p>Here Mr. Talmage again shows his tendency to belittle the
+miracles of the Bible. I am astonished that he should doubt the
+power of God to keep an ark on a mountain seventeen thousand feet
+high. He could have changed the climate for that occasion. He could
+have made all the rocks and glaciers produce wheat and corn in
+abundance. Certainly God, who could overwhelm a world with a flood,
+had the power to change every law and fact in nature.</p>
+<p>I am surprised that Mr. Talmage is not willing to believe the
+story as it is told. What right has he to question the statements
+of an inspired writer? Why should he set up his judgment against
+the Websters and Jacksons? Is it not infinitely impudent in him to
+contrast his penny-dip with the sun of inspiration? What right has
+he to any opinion upon the subject? He must take the Bible as it
+reads. He should remember that the greater the miracle the greater
+should be his faith.</p>
+<center>36</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You do not seem to have any great opinion of
+the chemical, geological, and agricultural views expressed by Mr.
+Talmage?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. You must remember that Mr. Talmage has a certain
+thing to defend. He takes the Bible as actually true, and with the
+Bible as his standard, he compares and measures all sciences. He
+does not study geology to find whether the Mosaic account is true,
+but he reads the Mosaic account for the purpose of showing that
+geology can not be depended upon. His idea that "one day is as a
+thousand years with "God," and that therefore the "days" mentioned
+in the Mosaic account are not days of twenty-four hours, but long
+periods, is contradicted by the Bible itself. The great reason
+given for keeping the Sabbath day is, that "God rested on the
+seventh day and was refreshed." Now, it does not say that he rested
+on the "seventh "period," or the "seventh good&mdash;while," or the
+"seventh long-time," but on the "seventh day." In imitation of this
+example we are also to rest&mdash;not on the seventh good-while,
+but on the seventh day. Nothing delights the average minister more
+than to find that a passage of Scripture is capable of several
+interpretations. Nothing in the inspired book is so</p>
+<center>37</center>
+<p>dangerous as accuracy. If the holy writer uses general terms, an
+ingenious theologian can harmonize a seemingly preposterous
+statement with the most obdurate fact. An "inspired" book should
+contain neither statistics nor dates&mdash;as few names as
+possible, and not one word about geology or astronomy. Mr. Talmage
+is doing the best he can to uphold the fables of the Jews. They are
+the foundation of his faith. He believes in the water of the past
+and the fire of the future&mdash;in the God of flood and
+flame&mdash;the eternal torturer of his helpless children.</p>
+<p>It is exceedingly unfortunate that Mr. Talmage does not
+appreciate the importance of good manners, that he does not rightly
+estimate the convincing power of kindness and good nature. It is
+unfortunate that a Christian, believing in universal forgiveness,
+should exhibit so much of the spirit of detraction, that he should
+run so easily and naturally into epithets, and that he should
+mistake vituperation for logic. Thousands of people, knowing but
+little of the mysteries of Christianity&mdash;never having studied
+theology,&mdash;may become prejudiced against the church, and doubt
+the divine origin of a religion whose defenders seem to rely, at
+least to a great degree, upon malignant personalities. Mr. Talmage
+should remember that in a</p>
+<center>38</center>
+<p>discussion of this kind, he is supposed to represent a being of
+infinite wisdom and goodness. Surely, the representative of the
+infinite can afford to be candid, can afford to be kind. When he
+contemplates the condition of a fellow-being destitute of religion,
+a fellow-being now travelling the thorny path to eternal fire, he
+should be filled with pity instead of hate. Instead of deforming
+his mouth with scorn, his eyes should be filled with tears. He
+should take into consideration the vast difference between an
+infidel and a minister of the gospel,&mdash;knowing, as he does,
+that a crown of glory has been prepared for the minister, and that
+flames are waiting for the soul of the unbeliever. He should bear
+with philosophic fortitude the apparent success of the skeptic, for
+a few days in this brief life, since he knows that in a little
+while the question will be eternally settled in his favor, and that
+the humiliation of a day is as nothing compared with the victory of
+eternity. In this world, the skeptic appears to have the best of
+the argument; logic seems to be on the side of blasphemy; common
+sense apparently goes hand in hand with infidelity, and the few
+things we are absolutely certain of, seem inconsistent with the
+Christian creeds.</p>
+<center>39</center>
+<p>This, however, as Mr. Talmage well knows, is but apparent. God
+has arranged the world in this way for the purpose of testing the
+Christian's faith. Beyond all these facts, beyond logic, beyond
+reason, Mr. Talmage, by the light of faith, clearly sees the
+eternal truth. This clearness of vision should give him the
+serenity of candor and the kindness born of absolute knowledge. He,
+being a child of the light, should not expect the perfect from the
+children of darkness. He should not judge Humboldt and Wesley by
+the same standard. He should remember that Wesley was especially
+set apart and illuminated by divine wisdom, while Humboldt was left
+to grope in the shadows of nature. He should also remember that
+ministers are not like other people. They have been "called." They
+have been "chosen" by infinite wisdom. They have been "set apart,"
+and they have bread to eat that we know not of. While other people
+are forced to pursue the difficult paths of investigation, they fly
+with the wings of faith.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage is perfectly aware of the advantages he enjoys, and
+yet he deems it dangerous to be fair. This, in my judgment, is his
+mistake. If he cannot easily point out the absurdities and
+contradictions in infidel lectures, surely God would never have
+selected</p>
+<center>40</center>
+<p>him for that task. We cannot believe that imperfect instruments
+would be chosen by infinite wisdom. Certain lambs have been
+entrusted to the care of Mr. Talmage, the shepherd. Certainly God
+would not select a shepherd unable to cope with an average wolf.
+Such a shepherd is only the appearance of protection. When the wolf
+is not there, he is a useless expense, and when the wolf comes, he
+goes. I cannot believe that God would select a shepherd of that
+kind. Neither can the shepherd justify his selection by abusing the
+wolf when out of sight. The fear ought to be on the other side. A
+divinely appointed shepherd ought to be able to convince his sheep
+that a wolf is a dangerous animal, and ought to be able to give his
+reasons. It may be that the shepherd has a certain interest in
+exaggerating the cruelty and ferocity of the wolf, and even the
+number of the wolves. Should it turn out that the wolves exist only
+in the imagination of the shepherd, the sheep might refuse to pay
+the salary of their protector. It will, however, be hard to
+calculate the extent to which the sheep will lose confidence in a
+shepherd who has not even the courage to state the facts about the
+wolf. But what must be the result when the sheep find that the
+supposed wolf is, in</p>
+<center>41</center>
+<p>fact, their friend, and that he is endeavoring to rescue them
+from the exactions of the pretended shepherd, who creates, by
+falsehood, the fear on which he lives?</p>
+<a name="link0004" id="link0004"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>SECOND INTERVIEW.</h2>
+<p>Por. Why, man, what's the matter? Don't tear your hair.</p>
+<p>Sir Hugh. I have been beaten in a discussion, overwhelmed and
+humiliated.</p>
+<p>Por. Why didn't you call your adversary a fool?</p>
+<p>Sir Hugh. My God! I forgot it!</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. I want to ask you a few questions about the
+second sermon of Mr. Talmage; have you read it, and what do you
+think of it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The text taken by the reverend gentleman is an
+insult, and was probably intended as such: "The fool hath said in
+his heart, there is no God." Mr. Talmage seeks to apply this text
+to any one who denies that the Jehovah of the Jews was and is the
+infinite and eternal Creator of all. He is perfectly satisfied that
+any man who differs with him on this question is a "fool," and he
+has the Christian forbearance and kindness to say so. I presume
+he</p>
+<center>46</center>
+<p>is honest in this opinion, and no doubt regards Bruno, Spinoza
+and Humboldt as driveling imbeciles. He entertains the same opinion
+of some of the greatest, wisest and best of Greece and Rome.</p>
+<p>No man is fitted to reason upon this question who has not the
+intelligence to see the difficulties in all theories. No man has
+yet evolved a theory that satisfactorily accounts for all that is.
+No matter what his opinion may be, he is beset by a thousand
+difficulties, and innumerable things insist upon an explanation.
+The best that any man can do is to take that theory which to his
+mind presents the fewest difficulties. Mr. Talmage has been
+educated in a certain way&mdash;has a brain of a certain quantity,
+quality and form&mdash;and accepts, in spite it may be, of himself,
+a certain theory. Others, formed differently, having lived under
+different circumstances, cannot accept the Talmagian view, and
+thereupon he denounces them as fools. In this he follows the
+example of David the murderer; of David, who advised one of his
+children to assassinate another; of David, whose last words were
+those of hate and crime. Mr. Talmage insists that it takes no
+especial brain to reason out a "design" in Nature, and in a moment
+afterward says that "when the world slew</p>
+<center>47</center>
+<p>"Jesus, it showed what it would do with the eternal "God, if
+once it could get its hands on Him." Why should a God of infinite
+wisdom create people who would gladly murder their Creator? Was
+there any particular "design" in that? Does the existence of such
+people conclusively prove the existence of a good Designer? It
+seems to me&mdash;and I take it that my thought is natural, as I
+have only been born once&mdash;that an infinitely wise and good God
+would naturally create good people, and if he has not, certainly
+the fault is his. The God of Mr. Talmage knew, when he created
+Guiteau, that he would assassinate Garfield. Why did he create him?
+Did he want Garfield assassinated? Will somebody be kind enough to
+show the "design" in this transaction? Is it possible to see
+"design" in earthquakes, in volcanoes, in pestilence, in famine, in
+ruthless and relentless war? Can we find "design" in the fact that
+every animal lives upon some other&mdash; that every drop of every
+sea is a battlefield where the strong devour the weak? Over the
+precipice of cruelty rolls a perpetual Niagara of blood. Is there
+"design" in this? Why should a good God people a world with men
+capable of burning their fellow-men&mdash;and capable of burning
+the greatest and</p>
+<center>48</center>
+<p>best? Why does a good God permit these things? It is said of
+Christ that he was infinitely kind and generous, infinitely
+merciful, because when on earth he cured the sick, the lame and
+blind. Has he not as much power now as he had then? If he was and
+is the God of all worlds, why does he not now give back to the
+widow her son? Why does he withhold light from the eyes of the
+blind? And why does one who had the power miraculously to feed
+thousands, allow millions to die for want of food? Did Christ only
+have pity when he was part human? Are we indebted for his kindness
+to the flesh that clothed his spirit? Where is he now? Where has he
+been through all the centuries of slavery and crime? If this
+universe was "designed," then all that happens was "designed." If a
+man constructs an engine, the boiler of which explodes, we say
+either that he did not know the strength of his materials, or that
+he was reckless of human life. If an infinite being should
+construct a weak or imperfect machine, he must be held accountable
+for all that happens. He cannot be permitted to say that he did not
+know the strength of the materials. He is directly and absolutely
+responsible. So, if this world was designed by a being of infinite
+power and wisdom, he is responsible for</p>
+<center>49</center>
+<p>the result of that design. My position is this: I do not know.
+But there are so many objections to the personal-God theory, that
+it is impossible for me to accept it. I prefer to say that the
+universe is all the God there is. I prefer to make no being
+responsible. I prefer to say: If the naked are clothed, man must
+clothe them; if the hungry are fed, man must feed them. I prefer to
+rely upon human endeavor, upon human intelligence, upon the heart
+and brain of man. There is no evidence that God has ever interfered
+in the affairs of man. The hand of earth is stretched uselessly
+toward heaven. From the clouds there comes no help. In vain the
+shipwrecked cry to God. In vain the imprisoned ask for liberty and
+light&mdash;the world moves on, and the heavens are deaf and dumb
+and blind. The frost freezes, the fire burns, slander smites, the
+wrong triumphs, the good suffer, and prayer dies upon the lips of
+faith.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges you with being "the
+champion blasphemer of America"&mdash;what do you understand
+blasphemy to be?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Blasphemy is an epithet bestowed by superstition
+upon common sense. Whoever investigates a religion as he would any
+department of</p>
+<center>50</center>
+<p>science, is called a blasphemer. Whoever contradicts a priest,
+whoever has the impudence to use his own reason, whoever is brave
+enough to express his honest thought, is a blasphemer in the eyes
+of the religionist. When a missionary speaks slightingly of the
+wooden god of a savage, the savage regards him as a blasphemer. To
+laugh at the pretensions of Mohammed in Constantinople is
+blasphemy. To say in St. Petersburg that Mohammed was a prophet of
+God is also blasphemy. There was a time when to acknowledge the
+divinity of Christ in Jerusalem was blasphemy. To deny his divinity
+is now blasphemy in New York. Blasphemy is to a considerable extent
+a geographical question. It depends not only on what you say, but
+where you are when you say it. Blasphemy is what the old calls the
+new,&mdash;what last year's leaf says to this year's bud. The
+founder of every religion was a blasphemer. The Jews so regarded
+Christ, and the Athenians had the same opinion of Socrates.
+Catholics have always looked upon Protestants as blasphemers, and
+Protestants have always held the same generous opinion of
+Catholics. To deny that Mary is the Mother of God is blasphemy. To
+say that she is the Mother of God is blasphemy. Some savages think
+that a dried snake</p>
+<center>51</center>
+<p>skin stuffed with leaves is sacred, and he who thinks otherwise
+is a blasphemer. It was once blasphemy to laugh at Diana, of the
+Ephesians. Many people think that it is blasphemous to tell your
+real opinion of the Jewish Jehovah. Others imagine that words can
+be printed upon paper, and the paper bound into a book covered with
+sheepskin, and that the book is sacred, and that to question its
+sacredness is blasphemy. Blasphemy is also a crime against God, but
+nothing can be more absurd than a crime against God. If God is
+infinite, you cannot injure him. You cannot commit a crime against
+any being that you cannot injure. Of course, the infinite cannot be
+injured. Man is a conditioned being. By changing his conditions,
+his surroundings, you can injure him; but if God is infinite, he is
+conditionless. If he is conditionless, he cannot by any possibility
+be injured. You can neither increase, nor decrease, the well-being
+of the infinite. Consequently, a crime against God is a
+demonstrated impossibility. The cry of blasphemy means only that
+the argument of the blasphemer cannot be answered. The
+sleight-of-hand performer, when some one tries to raise the curtain
+behind which he operates, cries "blasphemer!" The priest, finding
+that he has been attacked by common sense,&mdash;</p>
+<center>52</center>
+<p>by a fact,&mdash;resorts to the same cry. Blasphemy is the black
+flag of theology, and it means: No argument and no quarter! It is
+an appeal to prejudice, to passions, to ignorance. It is the last
+resort of a defeated priest. Blasphemy marks the point where
+argument stops and slander begins. In old times, it was the signal
+for throwing stones, for gathering fagots and for tearing flesh;
+now it means falsehood and calumny.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then you think that there is no such thing as
+the crime of blasphemy, and that no such offence can be
+committed?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Any one who knowingly speaks in favor of
+injustice is a blasphemer. Whoever wishes to destroy liberty of
+thought,&mdash;the honest expression of ideas,&mdash;is a
+blasphemer. Whoever is willing to malign his neighbor, simply
+because he differs with him upon a subject about which neither of
+them knows anything for certain, is a blasphemer. If a crime can be
+committed against God, he commits it who imputes to God the
+commission of crime. The man who says that God ordered the
+assassination of women and babes, that he gave maidens to satisfy
+the lust of soldiers, that he enslaved his own children,&mdash;that
+man</p>
+<center>53</center>
+<p>is a blasphemer. In my judgment, it would be far better to deny
+the existence of God entirely. It seems to me that every man ought
+to give his honest opinion. No man should suppose that any infinite
+God requires him to tell as truth that which he knows nothing
+about.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage, in order to make a point against infidelity, states
+from his pulpit that I am in favor of poisoning the minds of
+children by the circulation of immoral books. The statement is
+entirely false. He ought to have known that I withdrew from the
+Liberal League upon the very question whether the law should be
+repealed or modified. I favored a modification of that law, so that
+books and papers could not be thrown from the mails simply because
+they were "infidel."</p>
+<p>I was and am in favor of the destruction of every immoral book
+in the world. I was and am in favor, not only of the law against
+the circulation of such filth, but want it executed to the letter
+in every State of this Union. Long before he made that statement, I
+had introduced a resolution to that effect, and supported the
+resolution in a speech. Notwithstanding these facts, hundreds of
+clergymen have made haste to tell the exact opposite of the truth.
+This</p>
+<center>54</center>
+<p>they have done in the name of Christianity, under the pretence
+of pleasing their God. In my judgment, it is far better to tell
+your honest opinions, even upon the subject of theology, than to
+knowingly tell a falsehood about a fellow-man. Mr. Talmage may have
+been ignorant of the truth. He may have been misled by other
+ministers, and for his benefit I make this explanation. I wanted
+the laws modified so that bigotry could not interfere with the
+literature of intelligence; but I did not want, in any way, to
+shield the writers or publishers of immoral books. Upon this
+subject I used, at the last meeting of the Liberal League that I
+attended, the following language:</p>
+<p>"But there is a distinction wide as the Mississippi, "yes, wider
+than the Atlantic, wider than all oceans, "between the literature
+of immorality and the litera"ture of free thought. One is a
+crawling, slimy lizard, "and the other an angel with wings of
+light. Let us "draw this distinction. Let us understand ourselves.
+"Do not make the wholesale statement that all these "laws ought to
+be repealed. They ought not to be "repealed. Some of them are good,
+and the law "against sending instruments of vice through the "mails
+is good. The law against sending obscene "pictures and books is
+good. The law against send</p>
+<center>55</center>
+<p>"ing bogus diplomas through the mails, to allow a "lot of
+ignorant hyenas to prey upon the sick people "of the world, is a
+good law. The law against rascals "who are getting up bogus
+lotteries, and sending their "circulars in the mails is a good law.
+You know, as "well as I, that there are certain books not fit to go
+"through the mails. You know that. You know there "are certain
+pictures not fit to be transmitted, not fit "to be delivered to any
+human being. When these "books and pictures come into the control
+of the "United States, I say, burn them up! And when any "man has
+been indicted who has been trying to make "money by pandering to
+the lowest passions in the "human breast, then I say, prosecute
+him! let the "law take its course."</p>
+<p>I can hardly convince myself that when Mr. Talmage made the
+charge, he was acquainted with the facts. It seems incredible that
+any man, pretending to be governed by the law of common honesty,
+could make a charge like this knowing it to be untrue. Under no
+circumstances, would I charge Mr. Talmage with being an infamous
+man, unless the evidence was complete and overwhelming. Even then,
+I should hesitate long before making the charge. The side I take on
+theological</p>
+<center>56</center>
+<p>questions does not render a resort to slander or calumny a
+necessity. If Mr. Talmage is an honorable man, he will take back
+the statement he has made. Even if there is a God, I hardly think
+that he will reward one of his children for maligning another; and
+to one who has told falsehoods about "infidels," that having been
+his only virtue, I doubt whether he will say: "Well done good and
+faithful "servant."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What have you to say to the charge that you are
+endeavoring to "assassinate God," and that you are "far worse than
+the man who at"tempts to kill his father, or his mother, or his
+sister, "or his brother"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, I think that is about as reasonable as
+anything he says. No one wishes, so far as I know, to assassinate
+God. The idea of assassinating an infinite being is of course
+infinitely absurd. One would think Mr. Talmage had lost his reason!
+And yet this man stands at the head of the Presbyterian clergy. It
+is for this reason that I answer him. He is the only Presbyterian
+minister in the United States, so far as I know, able to draw an
+audience. He is, without doubt, the leader of that
+denomination.</p>
+<center>57</center>
+<p>He is orthodox and conservative. He believes implicitly in the
+"Five Points" of Calvin, and says nothing simply for the purpose of
+attracting attention. He believes that God damns a man for his own
+glory; that he sends babes to hell to establish his mercy, and that
+he filled the world with disease and crime simply to demonstrate
+his wisdom. He believes that billions of years before the earth
+was, God had made up his mind as to the exact number that he would
+eternally damn, and had counted his saints. This doctrine he calls
+"glad tidings of great joy." He really believes that every man who
+is true to himself is waging war against God; that every infidel is
+a rebel; that every Freethinker is a traitor, and that only those
+are good subjects who have joined the Presbyterian Church, know the
+Shorter Catechism by heart, and subscribe liberally toward lifting
+the mortgage on the Brooklyn Tabernacle. All the rest are
+endeavoring to assassinate God, plotting the murder of the Holy
+Ghost, and applauding the Jews for the crucifixion of Christ. If
+Mr. Talmage is correct in his views as to the power and wisdom of
+God, I imagine that his enemies at last will be overthrown, that
+the assassins and murderers will not succeed, and that the
+Infinite, with Mr. Talmage s assistance, will</p>
+<center>58</center>
+<p>finally triumph. If there is an infinite God, certainly he ought
+to have made man grand enough to have and express an opinion of his
+own. Is it possible that God can be gratified with the applause of
+moral cowards? Does he seek to enhance his glory by receiving the
+adulation of cringing slaves? Is God satisfied with the adoration
+of the frightened?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You notice that Mr. Talmage finds nearly all
+the inventions of modern times mentioned in the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>: Yes; Mr. Talmage has made an exceedingly
+important discovery. I admit that I am somewhat amazed at the
+wisdom of the ancients. This discovery has been made just in the
+nick of time. Millions of people were losing their respect for the
+Old Testament. They were beginning to think that there was some
+discrepancy between the prophecies of Ezekiel and Daniel and the
+latest developments in physical science. Thousands of preachers
+were telling their flocks that the Bible is not a scientific book;
+that Joshua was not an inspired astronomer, that God never
+enlightened Moses about geology, and that Ezekiel did not
+understand the entire art of cookery. These admissions caused</p>
+<center>59</center>
+<p>some young people to suspect that the Bible, after all, was not
+inspired; that the prophets of antiquity did not know as much as
+the discoverers of to-day. The Bible was falling into disrepute.
+Mr. Talmage has rushed to the rescue. He shows, and shows
+conclusively as anything can be shown from the Bible, that Job
+understood all the laws of light thousands of years before Newton
+lived; that he anticipated the discoveries of Descartes, Huxley and
+Tyndall; that he was familiar with the telegraph and telephone;
+that Morse, Bell and Edison simply put his discoveries in
+successful operation; that Nahum was, in fact, a master-mechanic;
+that he understood perfectly the modern railway and described it so
+accurately that Trevethick, Foster and Stephenson had no difficulty
+in constructing a locomotive. He also has discovered that Job was
+well acquainted with the trade winds, and understood the mysterious
+currents, tides and pulses of the sea; that Lieutenant Maury was a
+plagiarist; that Humboldt was simply a biblical student. He finds
+that Isaiah and Solomon were far in advance of Galileo, Morse,
+Meyer and Watt. This is a discovery wholly unexpected to me. If Mr.
+Talmage is right, I am satisfied the Bible is an inspired book. If
+it shall turn out that Joshua was</p>
+<center>60</center>
+<p>superior to Laplace, that Moses knew more about geology than
+Humboldt, that Job as a scientist was the superior of Kepler, that
+Isaiah knew more than Copernicus, and that even the minor prophets
+excelled the inventors and discoverers of our time&mdash; then I
+will admit that infidelity must become speechless forever. Until I
+read this sermon, I had never even suspected that the inventions of
+modern times were known to the ancient Jews. I never supposed that
+Nahum knew the least thing about railroads, or that Job would have
+known a telegraph if he had seen it. I never supposed that Joshua
+comprehended the three laws of Kepler. Of course I have not read
+the Old Testament with as much care as some other people have, and
+when I did read it, I was not looking for inventions and
+discoveries. I had been told so often that the Bible was no
+authority upon scientific questions, that I was lulled into a state
+of lethargy. What is amazing to me is, that so many men did read it
+without getting the slightest hint of the smallest invention. To
+think that the Jews read that book for hundreds and hundreds of
+years, and yet went to their graves without the slightest notion of
+astronomy, or geology, of railroads, telegraphs, or steamboats! And
+then to think that the early fathers</p>
+<center>61</center>
+<p>made it the study of their lives and died without inventing
+anything! I am astonished that Mr. Talmage himself does not figure
+in the records of the Patent Office. I cannot account for this,
+except upon the supposition that he is too honest to infringe on
+the patents of the patriarchs. After this, I shall read the Old
+Testament with more care.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you see that Mr. Talmage endeavors to
+convict you of great ignorance in not knowing that the word
+translated "rib" should have been translated "side," and that Eve,
+after all, was not made out of a rib, but out of Adam's side?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I may have been misled by taking the Bible as it
+is translated. The Bible account is simply this: "And the Lord God
+caused a deep sleep to fall "upon Adam, and he slept. And he took
+one of "his ribs and closed up the flesh instead thereof; "and the
+rib which the Lord God had taken from "man made he a woman, and
+brought her unto the "man. And Adam said: This is now bone of my
+"bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called "woman, because
+she was taken out of man." If Mr. Talmage is right, then the
+account should be as follows: "And the Lord God caused a deep
+sleep</p>
+<center>62</center>
+<p>"to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and he took one "of his sides,
+and closed up the flesh instead thereof; "and the side which the
+Lord God had taken from "man made he a woman, and brought her unto
+the "man. And Adam said: This is now side of my "side, and flesh of
+my flesh." I do not see that the story is made any better by using
+the word "side" instead of "rib." It would be just as hard for God
+to make a woman out of a man's side as out of a rib. Mr. Talmage
+ought not to question the power of God to make a woman out of a
+bone, and he must recollect that the less the material the greater
+the miracle.</p>
+<p>There are two accounts of the creation of man, in Genesis, the
+first being in the twenty-first verse of the first chapter and the
+second being in the twenty-first and twenty-second verses of the
+second chapter.</p>
+<p>According to the second account, "God formed "man of the dust of
+the ground, and breathed into "his nostrils the breath of life."
+And after this, "God planted a garden eastward in Eden and put "the
+man" in this garden. After this, "He made "every tree to grow that
+was good for food and "pleasant to the sight," and, in addition,
+"the tree</p>
+<center>63</center>
+<p>"of life in the midst of the garden," beside "the tree "of the
+knowledge of good and evil." And he "put "the man in the garden to
+dress it and keep it," telling him that he might eat of everything
+he saw except of "the tree of the knowledge of good and "evil."</p>
+<p>After this, God having noticed that it "was not "good for man to
+be alone, formed out of the ground "every beast of the field, every
+fowl of the air, and "brought them to Adam to see what he would
+call "them, and Adam gave names to all cattle, and to "the fowl of
+the air, and to every beast of the field. "But for Adam there was
+not found an helpmeet for "him."</p>
+<p>We are not told how Adam learned the language, or how he
+understood what God said. I can hardly believe that any man can be
+created with the knowledge of a language. Education cannot be ready
+made and stuffed into a brain. Each person must learn a language
+for himself. Yet in this account we find a language ready made for
+man's use. And not only man was enabled to speak, but a serpent
+also has the power of speech, and the woman holds a conversation
+with this animal and with her husband; and yet no account is given
+of how any language was</p>
+<center>64</center>
+<p>learned. God is described as walking in the garden in the cool
+of the day, speaking like a man&mdash;holding conversations with
+the man and woman, and occasionally addressing the serpent.</p>
+<p>In the nursery rhymes of the world there is nothing more
+childish than this "inspired" account of the creation of man and
+woman.</p>
+<p>The early fathers of the church held that woman was inferior to
+man, because man was not made for woman, but woman for man; because
+Adam was made first and Eve afterward. They had not the gallantry
+of Robert Burns, who accounted for the beauty of woman from the
+fact that God practiced on man first, and then gave woman the
+benefit of his experience. Think, in this age of the world, of a
+well-educated, intelligent gentleman telling his little child that
+about six thousand years ago a mysterious being called God made the
+world out of his "omnipotence;" then made a man out of some dust
+which he is supposed to have moulded into form; that he put this
+man in a garden for the purpose of keeping the trees trimmed; that
+after a little while he noticed that the man seemed lonesome, not
+particularly happy, almost homesick; that then it occurred to this
+God, that it would be a good thing for</p>
+<center>65</center>
+<p>the man to have some company, somebody to help him trim the
+trees, to talk to him and cheer him up on rainy days; that,
+thereupon, this God caused a deep sleep to fall on the man, took a
+knife, or a long, sharp piece of "omnipotence," and took out one of
+the man's sides, or a rib, and of that made a woman; that then this
+man and woman got along real well till a snake got into the garden
+and induced the woman to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good
+and evil; that the woman got the man to take a bite; that
+afterwards both of them were detected by God, who was walking
+around in the cool of the evening, and thereupon they were turned
+out of the garden, lest they should put forth their hands and eat
+of the tree of life, and live forever.</p>
+<p>This foolish story has been regarded as the sacred, inspired
+truth; as an account substantially written by God himself; and
+thousands and millions of people have supposed it necessary to
+believe this childish falsehood, in order to save their souls.
+Nothing more laughable can be found in the fairy tales and
+folk-lore of savages. Yet this is defended by the leading
+Presbyterian divine, and those who fail to believe in the truth of
+this story are called "brazen "faced fools," "deicides," and
+"blasphemers."</p>
+<center>66</center>
+<p>By this story woman in all Christian countries was degraded. She
+was considered too impure to preach the gospel, too impure to
+distribute the sacramental bread, too impure to hand about the
+sacred wine, too impure to step within the "holy of holies," in the
+Catholic Churches, too impure to be touched by a priest. Unmarried
+men were considered purer than husbands and fathers. Nuns were
+regarded as superior to mothers, a monastery holier than a home, a
+nunnery nearer sacred than the cradle. And through all these years
+it has been thought better to love God than to love man, better to
+love God than to love your wife and children, better to worship an
+imaginary deity than to help your fellow-men.</p>
+<p>I regard the rights of men and women equal. In Love's fair
+realm, husband and wife are king and queen, sceptered and crowned
+alike, and seated on the self-same throne.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you still insist that the Old Testament
+upholds polygamy? Mr. Talmage denies this charge, and shows how
+terribly God punished those who were not satisfied with one
+wife.</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I see nothing in what Mr. Talmage has said
+calculated to change my opinion. It has been</p>
+<center>67</center>
+<p>admitted by thousands of theologians that the Old Testament
+upholds polygamy. Mr. Talmage is among the first to deny it. It
+will not do to say that David was punished for the crime of
+polygamy or concubinage. He was "a man after God's own "heart." He
+was made a king. He was a successful general, and his blood is said
+to have flowed in the veins of God. Solomon was, according to the
+account, enriched with wisdom above all human beings. Was that a
+punishment for having had so many wives? Was Abraham pursued by the
+justice of God because of the crime against Hagar, or for the crime
+against his own wife? The verse quoted by Mr. Talmage to show that
+God was opposed to polygamy, namely, the eighteenth verse of the
+eighteenth chapter of Leviticus, cannot by any ingenuity be
+tortured into a command against polygamy. The most that can be
+possibly said of it is, that you shall not marry the sister of your
+wife, while your wife is living. Yet this passage is quoted by Mr.
+Talmage as "a thunder of prohibition against having more "than one
+wife." In the twentieth chapter of Leviticus it is enacted: "That
+if a man take a wife "and her mother they shall be burned with
+fire." A commandment like this shows that he might take his</p>
+<center>68</center>
+<p>wife and somebody else's mother. These passages have nothing to
+do with polygamy. They show whom you may marry, not how many; and
+there is not in Leviticus a solitary word against polygamy&mdash;
+not one. Nor is there such a word in Genesis, nor Exodus, nor in
+the entire Pentateuch&mdash;not one word. These books are filled
+with the most minute directions about killing sheep, and goats and
+doves; about making clothes for priests, about fashioning tongs and
+snuffers; and yet, they contain not one word against polygamy. It
+never occurred to the inspired writers that polygamy was a crime.
+Polygamy was accepted as a matter of course. Women were simple
+property.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage, however, insists that, although God was against
+polygamy, he permitted it, and at the same time threw his moral
+influence against it. Upon this subject he says: "No doubt God
+per"mitted polygamy to continue for sometime, just "as he permits
+murder and arson, theft and gam"bling to-day to continue, although
+he is against "them." If God is the author of the Ten Commandments,
+he prohibited murder and theft, but he said nothing about polygamy.
+If he was so terribly against that crime, why did he forget to</p>
+<center>69</center>
+<p>mention it? Was there not room enough on the tables of stone for
+just one word on this subject? Had he no time to give a commandment
+against slavery? Mr. Talmage of course insists that God had to deal
+with these things gradually, his idea being that if God had made a
+commandment against them all at once, the Jews would have had
+nothing more to do with him.</p>
+<p>For instance: if we wanted to break cannibals of eating
+missionaries, we should not tell them all at once that it was
+wrong, that it was wicked, to eat missionaries raw; we should
+induce them first to cook the missionaries, and gradually wean them
+from raw flesh. This would be the first great step. We would stew
+the missionaries, and after a time put a little mutton in the stew,
+not enough to excite the suspicion of the cannibal, but just enough
+to get him in the habit of eating mutton without knowing it. Day
+after day we would put in more mutton and less missionary, until
+finally, the cannibal would be perfectly satisfied with clear
+mutton. Then we would tell him that it was wrong to eat missionary.
+After the cannibal got so that he liked mutton, and cared nothing
+for missionary, then it would be safe to have a law upon the
+subject.</p>
+<center>70</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage insists that polygamy cannot exist among people who
+believe the Bible. In this he is mistaken. The Mormons all believe
+the Bible. There is not a single polygamist in Utah who does not
+insist upon the inspiration of the Old and New Testaments.</p>
+<p>The Rev. Mr. Newman, a kind of peripatetic consular theologian,
+once had a discussion, I believe, with Elder Orson Pratt, at Salt
+Lake City, upon the question of polygamy. It is sufficient to say
+of this discussion that it is now circulated by the Mormons as a
+campaign document. The elder overwhelmed the parson. Passages of
+Scripture in favor of polygamy were quoted by the hundred. The
+lives of all the patriarchs were brought forward, and poor parson
+Newman was driven from the field. The truth is, the Jews at that
+time were much like our forefathers. They were barbarians, and many
+of their laws were unjust and cruel. Polygamy was the right of all;
+practiced, as a matter of fact, by the rich and powerful, and the
+rich and powerful were envied by the poor. In such esteem did the
+ancient Jews hold polygamy, that the number of Solomons wives was
+given, simply to enhance his glory. My own opinion is, that Solomon
+had very few wives, and that polygamy was not general in Palestine.
+The country was too poor, and</p>
+<center>71</center>
+<p>Solomon, in all his glory was hardly able to support one wife.
+He was a poor barbarian king with a limited revenue, with a poor
+soil, with a sparse population, without art, without science and
+without power. He sustained about the same relation to other kings
+that Delaware does to other States. Mr. Talmage says that God
+persecuted Solomon, and yet, if he will turn to the twenty-second
+chapter of First Chronicles, he will find what God promised to
+Solomon. God, speaking to David, says: "Behold a son shall be born
+"to thee, who shall be a man of rest, and I will give him "rest
+from his enemies around about; for his name shall "be Solomon, and
+I will give peace and quietness "unto Israel in his days. He shall
+build a house in my "name, and he shall be my son and I will be his
+father, "and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over
+"Israel forever." Did God keep his promise?</p>
+<p>So he tells us that David was persecuted by God, on account of
+his offences, and yet I find in the twenty-eighth verse of the
+twenty-ninth chapter of First Chronicles, the following account of
+the death of David: "And he died in a good old age, full of "days,
+riches and honor." Is this true?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What have you to say to the charge that you
+were mistaken in the number of years that</p>
+<center>72</center>
+<p>the Hebrews were in Egypt? Mr. Talmage says that they were there
+430 years, instead of 215 years.</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If you will read the third chapter of Galatians,
+sixteenth and seventeenth verses, you will find that it was 430
+years from the time God made the promise to Abraham to the giving
+of the law from Mount Sinai. The Hebrews did not go to Egypt for
+215 years after the promise was made to Abraham, and consequently
+did not remain in Egypt more than 215 years. If Galatians is true,
+I am right.</p>
+<p>Strange that Mr. Talmage should belittle the miracles. The
+trouble with this defender of the faith is that he cares nothing
+for facts. He makes the strangest statements, and cares the least
+for proof, of any man I know. I can account for what he says of me
+only upon the supposition that he has not read my lectures. He may
+have been misled by the pirated editions; Persons have stolen my
+lectures, printed the same ones under various names, and filled
+them with mistakes and things I never said. Mr. C. P. Farrell, of
+Washington, is my only authorized publisher. Yet Mr. Talmage
+prefers to answer the mistakes of literary thieves, and charge
+their ignorance to me.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did you ever attack the character of Queen
+Victoria, or did you draw any parallel between</p>
+<center>73</center>
+<p>her and George Eliot, calculated to depreciate the reputation of
+the Queen?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I never said a word against Victoria. The fact
+is, I am not acquainted with her&mdash;never met her in my life,
+and know but little of her. I never happened to see her "in plain
+clothes, reading the "Bible to the poor in the lane,"&mdash;neither
+did I ever hear her sing. I most cheerfully admit that her
+reputation is good in the neighborhood where she resides. In one of
+my lectures I drew a parallel between George Eliot and Victoria. I
+was showing the difference between a woman who had won her position
+in the world of thought, and one who was queen by chance. This is
+what I said:</p>
+<p>"It no longer satisfies the ambition of a great man "to be a
+king or emperor. The last Napoleon was "not satisfied with being
+the Emperor of the French. "He was not satisfied with having a
+circlet of gold "about his head&mdash;he wanted some evidence that
+he "had something of value in his head. So he wrote "the life of
+Julius C&aelig;sar that he might become a "member of the French
+Academy. The emperors, "the kings, the popes, no longer tower above
+their "fellows. Compare King William with the philoso"pher
+H&aelig;ckel. The king is one of the 'anointed</p>
+<center>74</center>
+<p>"'of the Most High'&mdash;as they claim&mdash;one upon "whose
+head has been poured the divine petroleum "of authority. Compare
+this king with H&aelig;ckel, who "towers an intellectual Colossus
+above the crowned "mediocrity. Compare George Eliot with Queen
+"Victoria. The queen is clothed in garments given "her by blind
+fortune and unreasoning chance, while "George Eliot wears robes of
+glory, woven in the "loom of her own genius. The world is beginning
+"to pay homage to intellect, to genius, to heart." I said not one
+word against Queen Victoria, and did not intend to even intimate
+that she was not an excellent woman, wife and mother. I was simply
+trying to show that the world was getting great enough to place a
+genius above an accidental queen. Mr. Talmage, true to the fawning,
+cringing spirit of orthodoxy, lauds the living queen and cruelly
+maligns the genius dead. He digs open the grave of George Eliot,
+and tries to stain the sacred dust of one who was the greatest
+woman England has produced. He calls her "an adultress." He attacks
+her because she was an atheist&mdash;because she abhorred Jehovah,
+denied the inspiration of the Bible, denied the dogma of eternal
+pain, and with all her heart despised the Presbyterian creed. He
+hates her because she was great and brave</p>
+<center>75</center>
+<p>and free&mdash;because she lived without "faith" and died
+without fear&mdash;because she dared to give her honest thought,
+and grandly bore the taunts and slanders of the Christian
+world.</p>
+<p>George Eliot tenderly carried in her heart the burdens of our
+race. She looked through pity's tears upon the faults and frailties
+of mankind. She knew the springs and seeds of thought and deed, and
+saw, with cloudless eyes, through all the winding ways of greed,
+ambition and deceit, where folly vainly plucks with thorn-pierced
+hands the fading flowers of selfish joy&mdash;the highway of
+eternal right. Whatever her relations may have been&mdash;no matter
+what I think, or others say, or how much all regret the one mistake
+in all her self-denying, loving life&mdash;I feel and know that in
+the court where her own conscience sat as judge, she stood
+acquitted&mdash;pure as light and stainless as a star.</p>
+<p>How appropriate here, with some slight change, the wondrously
+poetic and pathetic words of Laertes at Ophelia's grave:</p>
+<pre>
+     <i>Leave her i' the earth;
+          And from her fair and unpolluted flesh
+          May violets spring!
+          I tell thee, churlish priest,
+          A ministering angel shall this woman be,
+          When thou liest howling!</i>
+</pre>
+<p>I have no words with which to tell my loathing for a man who
+violates a noble woman's grave.</p>
+<center>76</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that the spirit in which Mr.
+Talmage reviews your lectures is in accordance with the teachings
+of Christianity?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I think that he talks like a true Presbyterian.
+If you will read the arguments of Calvin against the doctrines of
+Castalio and Servetus, you will see that Mr. Talmage follows
+closely in the footsteps of the founder of his church. Castalio was
+such a wicked and abandoned wretch, that he taught the innocence of
+honest error. He insisted that God would not eternally damn a man
+for being honestly mistaken. For the utterance of such blasphemous
+sentiments, abhorrent to every Christian mind, Calvin called him "a
+dog of Satan, and a child of hell." In short, he used the usual
+arguments. Castalio was banished, and died in exile. In the case of
+Servetus, after all the epithets had been exhausted, an appeal was
+made to the stake, and the blasphemous wretch was burned to
+ashes.</p>
+<p>If you will read the life of John Knox, you will find that Mr.
+Talmage is as orthodox in his methods of dealing with infidels, as
+he is in his creed. In my opinion, he would gladly treat
+unbelievers now, as the Puritans did the Quakers, as the
+Episcopalians did the Presbyterians, as the Presbyterians did the
+Baptists,</p>
+<center>77</center>
+<p>and as the Catholics have treated all heretics. Of course, all
+these sects will settle their differences in heaven. In the next
+world, they will laugh at the crimes they committed in this.</p>
+<p>The course pursued by Mr. Talmage is consistent. The pulpit
+cannot afford to abandon the weapons of falsehood and defamation.
+Candor sows the seeds of doubt. Fairness is weakness. The only way
+to successfully uphold the religion of universal love, is to
+denounce all Freethinkers as blasphemers, adulterers, and
+criminals. No matter how generous they may appear to be, no matter
+how fairly they may deal with their fellow-men, rest assured that
+they are actuated by the lowest and basest motives. Infidels who
+outwardly live honest and virtuous lives, are inwardly vicious,
+virulent and vile. After all, morality is only a veneering. God is
+not deceived with the varnish of good works. We know that the
+natural man is totally depraved, and that until he has been
+regenerated by the spirit of God, he is utterly incapable of a good
+action. The generosity of the unbeliever is, in fact, avarice. His
+honesty is only a form of larceny. His love is only hatred. No
+matter how sincerely he may love his wife,&mdash;how devoted he may
+be to his children,&mdash;no matter how ready he may be 'to</p>
+<center>78</center>
+<p>sacrifice even his life for the good of mankind, God, looking
+into his very heart, finds it only a den of hissing snakes, a lair
+of wild, ferocious beasts, a cage of unclean birds.</p>
+<p>The idea that God will save a man simply because he is honest
+and generous, is almost too preposterous for serious refutation. No
+man should rely upon his own goodness. He should plead the virtue
+of another. God, in his infinite justice, damns a good man on his
+own merits, and saves a bad man on the merits of another. The
+repentant murderer will be an angel of light, while his honest and
+unoffending victim will be a fiend in hell.</p>
+<p>A little while ago, a ship, disabled, was blown about the
+Atlantic for eighty days. Everything had been eaten. Nothing
+remained but bare decks and hunger. The crew consisted of Captain
+Kruger and nine others. For nine days, nothing had been eaten. The
+captain, taking a revolver in his hand, said: "Mates, some "one
+must die for the rest. I am willing to sacrifice "myself for you."
+One of his comrades grasped his hand, and implored him to wait one
+more day. The next morning, a sail was seen upon the horizon, and
+the dying men were rescued.</p>
+<p>To an ordinary man,&mdash;to one guided by the light of</p>
+<center>79</center>
+<p>reason,&mdash;it is perfectly clear that Captain Kruger was
+about to do an infinitely generous action. Yet Mr. Talmage will
+tell us that if that captain was not a Christian, and if he had
+sent the bullet crashing through his brain in order that his
+comrades might eat his body, and live to reach their wives and
+homes,&mdash; his soul, from that ship, would have gone, by dark
+and tortuous ways, down to the prison of eternal pain.</p>
+<p>Is it possible that Christ would eternally damn a man for doing
+exactly what Christ would have done, had he been infinitely
+generous, under the same circumstances? Is not self-denial in a man
+as praiseworthy as in a God? Should a God be worshiped, and a man
+be damned, for the same action?</p>
+<p>According to Mr. Talmage, every soldier who fought for our
+country in the Revolutionary war, who was not a Christian, is now
+in hell. Every soldier, not a Christian, who carried the flag of
+his country to victory&mdash;either upon the land or sea, in the
+war of 1812, is now in hell. Every soldier, not a Christian, who
+fought for the preservation of this Union,&mdash;to break the
+chains of slavery&mdash;to free four millions of people &mdash;to
+keep the whip from the naked back&mdash;every man who did
+this&mdash;every one who died at Andersonville and Libby, dreaming
+that his death would help make</p>
+<center>80</center>
+<p>the lives of others worth living, is now a lost and wretched
+soul. These men are now in the prison of God,&mdash;a prison in
+which the cruelties of Libby and Andersonville would be regarded as
+mercies,&mdash;in which famine would be a joy.</p>
+<a name="link0005" id="link0005"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>THIRD INTERVIEW.</h2>
+<h3>Sinner. Is God infinite in wisdom and power?</h3>
+<p>Parson. He is.</p>
+<p>Sinner. Does he at all times know just what ought to be done
+t</p>
+<p>Parson. He does.</p>
+<p>Sinner. Does he always do just what ought to be done?</p>
+<p>Parson. He does.</p>
+<p>Sinner. Why do you pray to him?</p>
+<p>Parson. Because he is unchangeable.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. I want to ask you a few questions about Mr.
+Talmage's third sermon. What do you think of it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I often ask myself the questions: Is there
+anything in the occupation of a minister,&mdash;anything in his
+surroundings, that makes him incapable of treating an opponent
+fairly, or decently? Is there anything in the doctrine of universal
+forgiveness that compels a man to speak of one who differs with him
+only in terms of disrespect and hatred? Is it necessary for those
+who profess to love the whole world, to hate the few they come in
+actual contact with?</p>
+<center>84</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage, no doubt, professes to love all mankind,&mdash;Jew
+and Gentile, Christian and Pagan. No doubt, he believes in the
+missionary effort, and thinks we should do all in our power to save
+the soul of the most benighted savage; and yet he shows anything
+but affection for the "heathen" at home. He loves the ones he never
+saw,&mdash;is real anxious for their welfare,&mdash;but for the
+ones he knows, he exhibits only scorn and hatred. In one breath, he
+tells us that Christ loves us, and in the next, that we are "wolves
+"and dogs." We are informed that Christ forgave even his murderers,
+but that now he hates an honest unbeliever with all his heart. He
+can forgive the ones who drove the nails into his hands and
+feet,&mdash; the one who thrust the spear through his quivering
+flesh,&mdash;but he cannot forgive the man who entertains an honest
+doubt about the "scheme of salvation." He regards the man who
+thinks, as a "mouth-maker "at heaven." Is it possible that Christ
+is less forgiving in heaven than he was in Jerusalem? Did he excuse
+murderers then, and does he damn thinkers now? Once he pitied even
+thieves; does he now abhor an intellectually honest man?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage seems to think that you have no
+right to give your opinion about the Bible.</p>
+<center>85</center>
+<p>Do you think that laymen have the same right as ministers to
+examine the Scriptures?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If God only made a revelation for preachers, of
+course we will have to depend on the preachers for information. But
+the preachers have made the mistake of showing the revelation. They
+ask us, the laymen, to read it, and certainly there is no use of
+reading it, unless we are permitted to think for ourselves while we
+read. If after reading the Bible we believe it to be true, we will
+say so, if we are honest. If we do not believe it, we will say so,
+if we are honest.</p>
+<p>But why should God be so particular about our believing the
+stories in his book? Why should God object to having his book
+examined? We do not have to call upon legislators, or courts, to
+protect Shakespeare from the derision of mankind. Was not God able
+to write a book that would command the love and admiration of the
+world? If the God of Mr. Talmage is infinite, he knew exactly how
+the stories of the Old Testament would strike a gentleman of the
+nineteenth century. He knew that many would have their
+doubts,&mdash;that thousands of them&mdash; and I may say most of
+them,&mdash;would refuse to believe that a miracle had ever been
+performed.</p>
+<center>86</center>
+<p>Now, it seems to me that he should either have left the stories
+out, or furnished evidence enough to convince the world. According
+to Mr. Talmage, thousands of people are pouring over the Niagara of
+unbelief into the gulf of eternal pain. Why does not God furnish
+more evidence? Just in proportion as man has developed
+intellectually, he has demanded additional testimony. That which
+satisfies a barbarian, excites only the laughter of a civilized
+man. Certainly God should furnish evidence in harmony with the
+spirit of the age. If God wrote his Bible for the average man, he
+should have written it in such a way that it would have carried
+conviction to the brain and heart of the average man; and he should
+have made no man in such a way that he could not, by any
+possibility, believe it. There certainly should be a harmony
+between the Bible and the human brain. If I do not believe the
+Bible, whose fault is it? Mr. Talmage insists that his God wrote
+the Bible for me. and made me. If this is true, the book and the
+man should agree. There is no sense in God writing a book for me
+and then making me in such a way that I cannot believe his
+book.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. But Mr. Talmage says the reason why you hate
+the Bible is, that your soul is poisoned; that</p>
+<center>87</center>
+<p>the Bible "throws you into a rage precisely as pure "water
+brings on a paroxysm of hydrophobia."</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Is it because the mind of the infidel is
+poisoned, that he refuses to believe that an infinite God commanded
+the murder of mothers, maidens and babes? Is it because their minds
+are impure, that they refuse to believe that a good God established
+the institution of human slavery, or that he protected it when
+established? Is it because their minds are vile, that they refuse
+to believe that an infinite God established or protected polygamy?
+Is it a sure sign of an impure mind, when a man insists that God
+never waged wars of extermination against his helpless children?
+Does it show that a man has been entirely given over to the devil,
+because he refuses to believe that God ordered a father to
+sacrifice his son? Does it show that a heart is entirely without
+mercy, simply because a man denies the justice of eternal pain?</p>
+<p>I denounce many parts of the Old Testament because they are
+infinitely repugnant to my sense of justice,&mdash;because they are
+bloody, brutal and infamous,&mdash;because they uphold crime and
+destroy human liberty. It is impossible for me to imagine a greater
+monster than the God of the Old Testa</p>
+<center>88</center>
+<p>ment. He is unworthy of my worship. He commands only my
+detestation, my execration, and my passionate hatred. The God who
+commanded the murder of children is an infamous fiend. The God who
+believed in polygamy, is worthy only of contempt. The God who
+established slavery should be hated by every free man. The Jehovah
+of the Jews was simply a barbarian, and the Old Testament is mostly
+the barbarous record of a barbarous people.</p>
+<p>If the Jehovah of the Jews is the real God, I do not wish to be
+his friend. From him I neither ask, nor expect, nor would I be
+willing to receive, even an eternity of joy. According to the Old
+Testament, he established a government,&mdash;a political
+state,&mdash;and yet, no civilized country to-day would re-enact
+these laws of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of the explanation given by
+Mr. Talmage of the stopping of the sun and moon in the time of
+Joshua, in order that a battle might be completed?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course, if there is an infinite God, he could
+have stopped the sun and moon. No one pretends to prescribe limits
+to the power of the infinite. Even admitting that such a being
+existed, the question whether he did stop the sun and moon,</p>
+<center>89</center>
+<p>or not, still remains. According to the account, these planets
+were stopped, in order that Joshua might continue the pursuit of a
+routed enemy. I take it for granted that a being of infinite wisdom
+would not waste any force,&mdash;that he would not throw away any
+"omnipotence," and that, under ordinary circumstances, he would
+husband his resources. I find that this spirit exists, at least in
+embryo, in Mr. Talmage. He proceeds to explain this miracle. He
+does not assert that the earth was stopped on its axis, but
+suggests "refraction" as a way out of the difficulty. Now, while
+the stopping of the earth on its axis accounts for the sun
+remaining in the same relative position, it does not account for
+the stoppage of the moon. The moon has a motion of its own, and
+even if the earth had been stopped in its rotary motion, the moon
+would have gone on. The Bible tells us that the moon was stopped.
+One would suppose that the sun would have given sufficient light
+for all practical purposes. Will Mr. Talmage be kind enough to
+explain the stoppage of the moon? Every one knows that the moon is
+somewhat obscure when the sun is in the midst of the heavens. The
+moon when compared with the sun at such a time, is much like one of
+the discourses of Mr. Talmage side by side with a chapter from
+Humboldt;&mdash;it is useless.</p>
+<center>90</center>
+<p>In the same chapter in which the account of the stoppage of the
+sun and moon is given, we find that God cast down from heaven great
+hailstones on Joshua's enemies. Did he get out of hailstones? Had
+he no "omnipotence" left? Was it necessary for him to stop the sun
+and moon and depend entirely upon the efforts of Joshua? Would not
+the force employed in stopping the rotary motion of the earth have
+been sufficient to destroy the enemy? Would not a millionth part of
+the force necessary to stop the moon, have pierced the enemy's
+centre, and rolled up both his flanks? A resort to lightning would
+have been, in my judgment, much more economical and rather more
+effective. If he had simply opened the earth, and swallowed them,
+as he did Korah and his company, it would have been a vast saving
+of "omnipotent" muscle. Yet, the foremost orthodox minister of the
+Presbyterian Church,&mdash;the one who calls all unbelievers
+"wolves and dogs," and "brazen "fools," in his effort to account
+for this miracle, is driven to the subterfuge of an "optical
+illusion." We are seriously informed that "God probably "changed
+the nature of the air," and performed this feat of ledgerdemain
+through the instrumentality of "refraction." It seems to me it
+would have been fully</p>
+<center>91</center>
+<p>as easy to have changed the nature of the air breathed by the
+enemy, so that it would not have supported life. He could have
+accomplished this by changing only a little air, in that vicinity;
+whereas, according to the Talmagian view, he changed the atmosphere
+of the world. Or, a small "local flood" might have done the work.
+The optical illusion and refraction view, ingenious as it may
+appear, was not original with Mr. Talmage. The Rev. Henry M. Morey,
+of South Bend, Indiana, used, upon this subject, the following
+language; "The phenomenon was simply "optical. The rotary motion of
+the earth was not "disturbed, but the light of the sun was
+prolonged by "the same laws of refraction and reflection by which
+"the sun now appears to be above the horizon when "it is really
+below. The medium through which the "sun's rays passed, might have
+been miraculously "influenced so as to have caused the sun to
+linger "above the horizon long after its usual time for
+dis"appearance."</p>
+<p>I pronounce the opinion of Mr. Morey to be the ripest product of
+Christian scholarship. According to the Morey-Talmage view, the sun
+lingered somewhat above the horizon. But this is inconsistent with
+the Bible account. We are not told in the Scriptures that</p>
+<center>92</center>
+<p>the sun "lingered above the horizon," but that it "stood "still
+in the midst of heaven for about a whole day." The trouble about
+the optical-illusion view is, that it makes the day too long. If
+the air was miraculously changed, so that it refracted the rays of
+the sun, while the earth turned over as usual for about a whole
+day, then, at the end of that time, the sun must have been again
+visible in the east. It would then naturally shine twelve hours
+more, so that this miraculous day must have been at least
+thirty-six hours in length. There were first twelve hours of
+natural light, then twelve hours of refracted and reflected light,
+and then twelve hours more of natural light. This makes the day too
+long. So, I say to Mr. Talmage, as I said to Mr. Morey: If you will
+depend a little less on refraction, and a little more on
+reflection, you will see that the whole story is a barbaric myth
+and foolish fable.</p>
+<p>For my part, I do not see why God should be pleased to have me
+believe a story of this character. I can hardly think that there is
+great joy in heaven over another falsehood swallowed. I can imagine
+that a man may deny this story, and still be an excellent citizen,
+a good father, an obliging neighbor, and in all respects a just and
+truthful man. I can also</p>
+<center>93</center>
+<p>imagine that a man may believe this story, and yet assassinate a
+President of the United States.</p>
+<p>I am afraid that Mr. Talmage is beginning to be touched, in
+spite of himself, with some new ideas. He tells us that worlds are
+born and that worlds die. This is not exactly the Bible view. You
+would think that he imagined that a world was naturally
+produced,&mdash;that the aggregation of atoms was natural, and that
+disintegration came to worlds, as to men, through old age. Yet this
+is not the Bible view. According to the Bible, these worlds were
+not born,&mdash; they were created out of "nothing," or out of
+"omnipotence," which is much the same. According to the Bible, it
+took this infinite God six days to make this atom called earth; and
+according to the account, he did not work nights,&mdash;he worked
+from the mornings to the evenings,&mdash;and I suppose rested
+nights, as he has since that time on Sundays.</p>
+<p>Admitting that the battle which Joshua fought was exceedingly
+important&mdash;which I do not think&mdash; is it not a little
+strange that this God, in all subsequent battles of the world's
+history, of which we know anything, has maintained the strictest
+neutrality? The earth turned as usual at Yorktown, and at
+Gettysburg the moon pursued her usual</p>
+<center>94</center>
+<p>course; and so far as I know, neither at Waterloo nor at Sedan
+were there any peculiar freaks of "re"fraction" or
+"reflection."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage tells us that there was in the
+early part of this century a dark day, when workmen went home from
+their fields, and legislatures and courts adjourned, and that the
+darkness of that day has not yet been explained. What is your
+opinion about that?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. My opinion is, that if at that time we had been
+at war with England, and a battle had been commenced in the
+morning, and in the afternoon the American forces had been driven
+from their position and were hard pressed by the enemy, and if the
+day had become suddenly dark, and so dark that the Americans were
+thereby enabled to escape, thousands of theologians of the calibre
+of Mr. Talmage would have honestly believed that there had been an
+interposition of divine Providence. No battle was fought that day,
+and consequently, even the ministers are looking for natural
+causes. In olden times, when the heavens were visited by comets,
+war, pestilence and famine were predicted. If wars came, the
+prediction was remembered; if</p>
+<center>95</center>
+<p>nothing happened, it was forgotten. When eclipses visited the
+sun and moon, the barbarian fell upon his knees, and accounted for
+the phenomena by the wickedness of his neighbor. Mr. Talmage tells
+us that his father was terrified by the meteoric shower that
+visited our earth in 1833. The terror of the father may account for
+the credulity of the son. Astronomers will be surprised to read the
+declaration of Mr. Talmage that the meteoric shower has never been
+explained. Meteors visit the earth every year of its life, and in a
+certain portion of the orbit they are always expected, and they
+always come. Mr. Newcomb has written a work on astronomy that all
+ministers ought to read.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage also charges you with "making light
+of holy things," and seems to be astonished that you should
+ridicule the anointing oil of Aaron?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I find that the God who had no time to say
+anything on the subject of slavery, and who found no room upon the
+tables of stone to say a word against polygamy, and in favor of the
+rights of woman, wife and mother, took time to give a recipe for
+making hair oil. And in order that the priests</p>
+<center>96</center>
+<p>might have the exclusive right to manufacture this oil, decreed
+the penalty of death on all who should infringe. I admit that I am
+incapable of seeing the beauty of this symbol. Neither could I ever
+see the necessity of Masons putting oil on the corner-stone of a
+building. Of course, I do not know the exact chemical effect that
+oil has on stone, and I see no harm in laughing at such a ceremony.
+If the oil does good, the laughter will do no harm; and if the oil
+will do no harm, the laughter will do no good. Personally, I am
+willing that Masons should put oil on all stones; but, if Masons
+should insist that I must believe in the efficacy of the ceremony,
+or be eternally damned, I would have about the same feeling toward
+the Masons that I now have toward Mr. Talmage. I presume that at
+one time the putting of oil on a corner-stone had some meaning; but
+that it ever did any good, no sensible man will insist. It is a
+custom to break a bottle of champagne over the bow of a
+newly-launched ship, but I have never considered this ceremony
+important to the commercial interests of the world.</p>
+<p>I have the same opinion about putting oil on stones, as about
+putting water on heads. For my part, I see no good in the rite of
+baptism. Still, it</p>
+<center>97</center>
+<p>may do no harm, unless people are immersed during cold weather.
+Neither have I the slightest objection to the baptism of anybody;
+but if people tell me that I must be baptized or suffer eternal
+agony, then I deny it. If they say that baptism does any earthly
+good, I deny it. No one objects to any harmless ceremony; but the
+moment it is insisted that a ceremony is necessary, the reason of
+which no man can see, then the practice of the ceremony becomes
+hurtful, for the reason that it is maintained only at the expense
+of intelligence and manhood.</p>
+<p>It is hurtful for people to imagine that they can please God by
+any ceremony whatever. If there is any God, there is only one way
+to please him, and that is, by a conscientious discharge of your
+obligations to your fellow-men. Millions of people imagine that
+they can please God by wearing certain kinds of cloth. Think of a
+God who can be pleased with a coat of a certain cut! Others, to
+earn a smile of heaven, shave their heads, or trim their beards, or
+perforate their ears or lips or noses. Others maim and mutilate
+their bodies. Others think to please God by simply shutting their
+eyes, by swinging censers, by lighting candles, by repeating poor
+Latin, by making a sign of the cross with holy water, by</p>
+<center>98</center>
+<p>ringing bells, by going without meat, by eating fish, by getting
+hungry, by counting beads, by making themselves miserable Sundays,
+by looking solemn, by refusing to marry, by hearing sermons; and
+others imagine that they can please God by calumniating
+unbelievers.</p>
+<p>There is an old story of an Irishman who, when dying, sent for a
+priest. The reputation of the dying man was so perfectly miserable,
+that the priest refused to administer the rite of extreme unction.
+The priest therefore asked him if he could recollect any decent
+action that he had ever done. The dying man said that he could not.
+"Very well," said the priest, "then you will have to be damned." In
+a moment, the pinched and pale face brightened, and he said to the
+priest: "I have thought of one good "action." "What is it?" asked
+the priest. And the dying man said, "Once I killed a gauger."</p>
+<p>I suppose that in the next world some ministers, driven to
+extremes, may reply: "Once I told a lie "about an infidel."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You see that Mr. Talmage still sticks to the
+whale and Jonah story. What do you think of his argument, or of his
+explanation, rather, of that miracle?</p>
+<center>99</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The edge of his orthodoxy seems to be crumbling.
+He tells us that "there is in the mouth "of the common whale a
+cavity large enough for a "man to live in without descent into his
+stomach,"&mdash; and yet Christ says, that Jonah was in the whale's
+belly, not in his mouth. But why should Mr. Talmage say that? We
+are told in the sacred account that "God prepared a great fish" for
+the sole purpose of having Jonah swallowed. The size of the present
+whale has nothing to do with the story. No matter whether the
+throat of the whale of to-day is large or small,&mdash;that has
+nothing to do with it. The simple story is, that God prepared a
+fish and had Jonah swallowed. And yet Mr. Talmage throws out the
+suggestion that probably this whale held Jonah in his mouth for
+three days and nights. I admit that Jonah's chance for air would
+have been a little better in his mouth, and his chance for water a
+little worse. Probably the whale that swallowed Jonah was the same
+fish spoken of by Procopius,&mdash;both accounts being entitled, in
+my judgment, to equal credence. I am a little surprised that Mr.
+Talmage forgot to mention the fish spoken of by Munchausen&mdash;an
+equally reliable author,&mdash;and who has given, not simply the
+bald fact that a fish swallowed a ship, but</p>
+<center>100</center>
+<p>was good enough to furnish the details. Mr. Talmage should
+remember that out of Jonah's biography grew the habit of calling
+any remarkable lie, "a fish "story." There is one thing that Mr.
+Talmage should not forget; and that is, that miracles should not be
+explained. Miracles are told simply to be believed, not to be
+understood.</p>
+<p>Somebody suggested to Mr. Talmage that, in all probability, a
+person in the stomach of a whale would be digested in less than
+three days. Mr. Talmage, again showing his lack of confidence in
+God, refusing to believe that God could change the nature of
+gastric juice,&mdash;having no opportunity to rely upon "refraction
+or reflection," frankly admits that Jonah had to save himself by
+keeping on the constant go and jump. This gastric-juice theory of
+Mr. Talmage is an abandonment of his mouth hypothesis. I do not
+wonder that Mr. Talmage thought of the mouth theory. Possibly, the
+two theories had better be united&mdash;so that we may say that
+Jonah, when he got tired of the activity necessary to avoid the
+gastric juice, could have strolled into the mouth for a rest. What
+a picture! Jonah sitting on the edge of the lower jaw, wiping the
+perspiration and the gastric juice from his anxious</p>
+<center>101</center>
+<p>face, and vainly looking through the open mouth for signs of
+land!</p>
+<p>In this story of Jonah, we are told that "the Lord "spake unto
+the fish." In what language? It must be remembered that this fish
+was only a few hours old. He had been prepared during the storm,
+for the sole purpose of swallowing Jonah. He was a fish of
+exceedingly limited experience. He had no hereditary knowledge,
+because he did not spring from ancestors; consequently, he had no
+instincts. Would such a fish understand any language? It may be
+contended that the fish, having been made for the occasion, was
+given a sufficient knowledge of language to understand an ordinary
+commandment; but, if Mr. Talmage is right, I think an order to the
+fish would have been entirely unnecessary. When we take into
+consideration that a thing the size of a man had been promenading
+up and down the stomach of this fish for three days and three
+nights, successfully baffling the efforts of gastric juice, we can
+readily believe that the fish was as anxious to have Jonah go, as
+Jonah was to leave.</p>
+<p>But the whale part is, after all, not the most wonderful portion
+of the book of Jonah. According to this wonderful account, "the
+word of the Lord came</p>
+<center>102</center>
+<p>"to Jonah," telling him to "go and cry against the "city of
+Nineveh;" but Jonah, instead of going, endeavored to evade the Lord
+by taking ship for Tarshish. As soon as the Lord heard of this, he
+"sent out a great wind into the sea," and frightened the sailors to
+that extent that after assuring themselves, by casting lots, that
+Jonah was the man, they threw him into the sea. After escaping from
+the whale, he went to Nineveh, and delivered his pretended message
+from God. In consequence of his message, Jonah having no
+credentials from God,&mdash; nothing certifying to his official
+character, the King of Nineveh covered himself with sack-cloth and
+sat down in some ashes. He then caused a decree to be issued that
+every man and beast should abstain from food and water; and
+further, that every man and beast should be covered with
+sack-cloth. This was done in the hope that Jonah's God would
+repent, and turn away his fierce anger. When we take into
+consideration the fact that the people of Nineveh were not Hebrews,
+and had not the slightest confidence in the God of the
+Jews&mdash;knew no more of, and cared no more for, Jehovah than we
+now care for Jupiter, or Neptune; the effect produced by the
+proclamation of Jonah is, to say the least of it, almost
+incredible.</p>
+<center>103</center>
+<p>We are also informed, in this book, that the moment God saw all
+the people sitting in the ashes, and all the animals covered with
+sack-cloth, he repented. This failure on the part of God to destroy
+the unbelievers displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very
+angry. Jonah was much like the modern minister, who seems always to
+be personally aggrieved if the pestilence and famine prophesied by
+him do not come. Jonah was displeased to that degree, that he asked
+God to kill him. Jonah then went out of the city, even after God
+had repented, made him a booth and sat under it, in the shade,
+waiting to see what would become of the city. God then "prepared a
+gourd, and made it to come up "over Jonah that it might be a shadow
+over his "head to deliver him from his grief." And then we have
+this pathetic line: "So Jonah was exceedingly "glad of the
+gourd."</p>
+<p>God having prepared a fish, and also prepared a gourd, proposed
+next morning to prepare a worm. And when the sun rose next day, the
+worm that God had prepared, "smote the gourd, so that "it
+withered." I can hardly believe that an infinite being prepared a
+worm to smite a gourd so that it withered, in order to keep the sun
+from</p>
+<center>104</center>
+<p>the bald head of a prophet. According to the account, after
+sunrise, and after the worm had smitten the gourd, "God prepared a
+vehement east "wind." This was not an ordinary wind, but one
+prepared expressly for that occasion. After the wind had been
+prepared, "the sun beat upon the head of "Jonah, and he fainted,
+and wished in himself to "die." All this was done in order to
+convince Jonah that a man who would deplore the loss of a gourd,
+ought not to wish for the destruction of a city.</p>
+<p>Is it possible for any intelligent man now to believe that the
+history of Jonah is literally true? For my part, I cannot see the
+necessity either of believing it, or of preaching it. It has
+nothing to do with honesty, with mercy, or with morality. The bad
+may believe it, and the good may hold it in contempt. I do not see
+that civilization has the slightest interest in the fish, the
+gourd, the worm, or the vehement east wind.</p>
+<p>Does Mr. Talmage think that it is absolutely necessary to
+believe <i>all</i> the story? Does he not think it probable that a
+God of infinite mercy, rather than damn the soul of an honest man
+to hell forever, would waive, for instance, the
+worm,&mdash;provided he believed in the vehement east wind, the
+gourd and the fish?</p>
+<center>105</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage, by insisting on the literal truth of the Bible
+stories, is doing Christianity great harm. Thousands of young men
+will say: "I can't become "a Christian if it is necessary to
+believe the adven"tures of Jonah." Mr. Talmage will put into the
+paths of multitudes of people willing to do right, anxious to make
+the world a little better than it is,&mdash; this stumbling block.
+He could have explained it, called it an allegory, poetical
+license, a child of the oriental imagination, a symbol, a parable,
+a poem, a dream, a legend, a myth, a divine figure, or a great
+truth wrapped in the rags and shreds and patches of seeming
+falsehood. His efforts to belittle the miracle, to suggest the
+mouth instead of the stomach,&mdash;to suggest that Jonah took deck
+passage, or lodged in the forecastle instead of in the cabin or
+steerage,&mdash; to suggest motion as a means of avoiding
+digestion, is a serious theological blunder, and may cause the loss
+of many souls.</p>
+<p>If Mr. Talmage will consult with other ministers, they will tell
+him to let this story alone&mdash;that he will simply "provoke
+investigation and discussion"&mdash;two things to be avoided. They
+will tell him that they are not willing their salary should hang on
+so slender a thread, and will advise him not to bother his
+gourd</p>
+<center>106</center>
+<p>about Jonah's. They will also tell him that in this age of the
+world, arguments cannot be answered by "a vehement east wind."</p>
+<p>Some people will think that it would have been just as easy for
+God to have pulled the gourd up, as to have prepared a worm to bite
+it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges that you have said there
+are indecencies in the Bible. Are you still of that opinion?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Mr. Talmage endeavors to evade the charge, by
+saying that "there are things in the Bible "not intended to be
+read, either in the family circle, "or in the pulpit, but
+nevertheless they are to be "read." My own judgment is, that an
+infinite being should not inspire the writing of indecent things.
+It will not do to say, that the Bible description of sin "warns and
+saves." There is nothing in the history of Tamar calculated to
+"warn and save and the same may be said of many other passages in
+the Old Testament. Most Christians would be glad to know that all
+such passages are interpolations. I regret that Shakespeare ever
+wrote a line that could not be read any where, and by any person.
+But Shakespeare, great as he was, did not rise en</p>
+<center>107</center>
+<p>tirely above his time. So of most poets. Nearly all have stained
+their pages with some vulgarity; and I am sorry for it, and hope
+the time will come when we shall have an edition of all the great
+writers and poets from which every such passage is eliminated.</p>
+<p>It is with the Bible as with most other books. It is a mingling
+of good and bad. There are many exquisite passages in the
+Bible,&mdash;many good laws,&mdash; many wise sayings,&mdash;and
+there are many passages that should never have been written. I do
+not propose to throw away the good on account of the bad, neither
+do I propose to accept the bad on account of the good. The Bible
+need not be taken as an entirety. It is the business of every man
+who reads it, to discriminate between that which is good and that
+which is bad. There are also many passages neither good nor
+bad,&mdash;wholly and totally indifferent &mdash;conveying 110
+information&mdash;utterly destitute of ideas,&mdash;and as to these
+passages, my only objection to them is that they waste time and
+paper.</p>
+<p>I am in favor of every passage in the Bible that conveys
+information. I am in favor of every wise proverb, of every verse
+coming from human experience and that appeals to the heart of man.
+I am</p>
+<center>108</center>
+<p>in favor of every passage that inculcates justice, generosity,
+purity, and mercy. I am satisfied that much of the historical part
+is false. Some of it is probably true. Let us have the courage to
+take the true, and throw the false away. I am satisfied that many
+of the passages are barbaric, and many of them are good. Let us
+have the wisdom to accept the good and to reject the barbaric.</p>
+<p>No system of religion should go in partnership with barbarism.
+Neither should any Christian feel it his duty to defend the
+savagery of the past. The philosophy of Christ must stand
+independently of the mistakes of the Old Testament. We should do
+justice whether a woman was made from a rib or from "omnipotence."
+We should be merciful whether the flood was general, or local. We
+should be kind and obliging whether Jonah was swallowed by a fish
+or not. The miraculous has nothing to do with the moral.
+Intelligence is of more value than inspiration. Brain is better
+than Bible. Reason is above all religion. I do not believe that any
+civilized human being clings to the Bible on account of its
+barbaric passages. I am candid enough to believe that every
+Christian in the world would think more of the Bible, if it had not
+upheld slavery, if it had denounced</p>
+<center>109</center>
+<p>polygamy, if it had cried out against wars of extermination, if
+it had spared women and babes, if it had upheld everywhere, and at
+all times, the standard of justice and mercy. But when it is
+claimed that the book is perfect, that it is inspired, that it is,
+in fact, the work of an infinitely wise and good God,&mdash;then it
+should be without a defect. There should not be within its lids an
+impure word; it should not express an impure thought. There should
+not be one word in favor of injustice, not one word in favor of
+slavery, not one word in favor of wars of extermination. There must
+be another revision of the Scriptures. The chaff must be thrown
+away. The dross must be rejected; and only that be retained which
+is in exact harmony with the brain and heart of the greatest and
+the best.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges you with unfairness,
+because you account for the death of art in Palestine, by the
+commandment which forbids the making of graven images.</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I have said that that commandment was the death
+of art, and I say so still. I insist that by reason of that
+commandment, Palestine produced no painter and no sculptor until
+after the destruction of</p>
+<center>110</center>
+<p>Jerusalem. Mr. Talmage, in order to answer that statement, goes
+on to show that hundreds and thousands of pictures were produced in
+the Middle Ages. That is a departure in pleading. Will he give us
+the names of the painters that existed in Palestine from Mount
+Sinai to the destruction of the temple? Will he give us the names
+of the sculptors between those times? Mohammed prohibited his
+followers from making any representation of human or animal life,
+and as a result, Mohammedans have never produced a painter nor a
+sculptor, except in the portrayal and chiseling of vegetable forms.
+They were confined to trees and vines, and flowers. No Mohammedan
+has portrayed the human face or form. But the commandment of
+Jehovah went farther than that of Momammed, and prevented
+portraying the image of anything. The assassination of art was
+complete.</p>
+<p>There is another thing that should not be forgotten.</p>
+<p>We are indebted for the encouragement of art, not to the
+Protestant Church; if indebted to any, it is to the Catholic. The
+Catholic adorned the cathedral</p>
+<p>with painting and statue&mdash;not the Protestant. The
+Protestants opposed music and painting, and refused to decorate
+their temples. But if Mr. Talmage wishes to know to whom we are
+indebted for</p>
+<center>111</center>
+<p>art, let him read the mythology of Greece and Rome. The early
+Christians destroyed paintings and statues. They were the enemies
+of all beauty. They hated and detested every expression of art.
+They looked upon the love of statues as a form of idolatry. They
+looked upon every painting as a remnant of Paganism. They destroyed
+all upon which they could lay their ignorant hands. Hundred of
+years afterwards, the world was compelled to search for the
+fragments that Christian fury had left. The Greeks filled the world
+with beauty. For every stream and mountain and cataract they had a
+god or goddess. Their sculptors impersonated every dream and hope,
+and their mythology feeds, to-day, the imagination of mankind. The
+Venus de Milo is the impersonation of beauty, in ruin&mdash;the
+sublimest fragment of the ancient world. Our mythology is
+infinitely unpoetic and barren&mdash;our deity an old bachelor from
+eternity, who once believed in indiscriminate massacre. Upon the
+throne of our heaven, woman finds no place. Our mythology is
+destitute of the maternal.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage denies your statement that the Old
+Testament humiliates woman. He also denies that the New Testament
+says anything against woman. How is it?</p>
+<center>112</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course, I never considered a book upholding
+polygamy to be the friend of woman. Eve, according to that book, is
+the mother of us all, and yet the inspired writer does not tell us
+how long she lived,&mdash;does not even mention her
+death,&mdash;makes not the slightest reference as to what finally
+became of her. Methuselah lived nine hundred and sixtynine years,
+and yet, there is not the slightest mention made of Mrs.
+Methuselah. Enoch was translated, and his widow is not mentioned.
+There is not a word about Mrs. Seth, or Mrs. Enos, or Mrs. Cainan,
+or Mrs. Mahalaleel, or Mrs. Jared. We do not know the name of Mrs.
+Noah, and I believe not the name of a solitary woman is given from
+the creation of Eve&mdash;with the exception of two of Lamech's
+wives&mdash;until Sarai is mentioned as being the wife of
+Abram.</p>
+<p>If you wish really to know the Bible estimation of woman, turn
+to the fourth and fifth verses of the twelfth chapter of Leviticus,
+in which a woman, for the crime of having borne a son, is unfit to
+touch a hallowed thing, or to come in the holy sanctuary for
+thirty-three days; but if a woman was the mother of a girl, then
+she became totally unfit to enter the sanctuary, or pollute with
+her touch a hallowed thing,</p>
+<center>113</center>
+<p>for sixty-six days. The pollution was twice as great when she
+had borne a daughter.</p>
+<p>It is a little difficult to see why it is a greater crime to
+give birth to a daughter than to a son. Surely, a law like that did
+not tend to the elevation of woman. You will also find in the same
+chapter that a woman had to offer a pigeon, or a turtle-dove, as a
+sin offering, in order to expiate the crime of having become a
+mother. By the Levitical law, a mother was unclean. The priest had
+to make an atonement for her.</p>
+<p>If there is, beneath the stars, a figure of complete and perfect
+purity, it is a mother holding in her arms her child. The laws
+respecting women, given by commandment of Jehovah to the Jews, were
+born of barbarism, and in this day and age should be regarded only
+with detestation and contempt. The twentieth and twenty-first
+verses of the nineteenth chapter of Leviticus show that the same
+punishment was not meted to men and women guilty of the same
+crime.</p>
+<p>The real explanation of what we find in the Old Testament
+degrading to woman, lies in the fact, that the overflow of Love's
+mysterious Nile&mdash;the sacred source of life&mdash;was, by its
+savage authors, deemed unclean.</p>
+<center>114</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. But what have you to say about the women of the
+Bible, mentioned by Mr. Talmage, and held up as examples for all
+time of all that is sweet and womanly?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I believe that Esther is his principal heroine.
+Let us see who she was.</p>
+<p>According to the book of Esther, Ahasuerus who was king of
+Persia, or some such place, ordered Vashti his queen to show
+herself to the people and the princes, because she was "exceedingly
+fair "to look upon." For some reason&mdash;modesty
+perhaps&mdash;she refused to appear. And thereupon the king "sent
+letters into all his provinces and to every "people after their
+language, that every man should "bear rule in his own house;" it
+being feared that if it should become public that Vashti had
+disobeyed, all other wives might follow her example. The king also,
+for the purpose of impressing upon all women the necessity of
+obeying their husbands, issued a decree that "Vashti should come no
+more before "him," and that he would "give her royal estate "unto
+another." This was done that "all the "wives should give to their
+husbands honor, both to "great and small."</p>
+<p>After this, "the king appointed officers in all the</p>
+<center>115</center>
+<p>"provinces of his kingdom that they might gather "together all
+the fair young virgins," and bring them to his palace, put them in
+the custody of his chamberlain, and have them thoroughly washed.
+Then the king was to look over the lot and take each day the one
+that pleased him best until he found the one to put in the place of
+Vashti. A fellow by the name of Mordecai, living in that part of
+the country, hearing of the opportunity to sell a girl, brought
+Esther, his uncle's daughter,&mdash;she being an orphan, and very
+beautiful&mdash;to see whether she might not be the lucky one.</p>
+<p>The remainder of the second chapter of this book, I do not care
+to repeat. It is sufficient to say that Esther at last was
+chosen.</p>
+<p>The king at this time did not know that Esther was a Jewess.
+Mordecai her kinsman, however, discovered a plot to assassinate the
+king, and Esther told the king, and the two plotting gentlemen were
+hanged on a tree.</p>
+<p>After a while, a man by the name of Haman was made Secretary of
+State, and everybody coming in his presence bowed except Mordecai.
+Mordecai was probably depending on the influence of Esther. Haman
+finally became so vexed, that he made up</p>
+<center>116</center>
+<p>his mind to have all the Jews in the kingdom destroyed. (The
+number of Jews at that time in Persia must have been immense.)
+Haman thereupon requested the king to have an order issued to
+destroy all the Jews, and in consideration of the order, proposed
+to pay ten thousand talents of silver. And thereupon, letters were
+written to the governors of the various provinces, sealed with the
+king's ring, sent by post in all directions, with instructions to
+kill all the Jews, both young and old&mdash;little children and
+women,&mdash;in one day. (One would think that the king copied this
+order from another part of the Old Testament, or had found an
+original by Jehovah.) The people immediately made preparations for
+the killing. Mordecai clothed himself with sack-cloth, and Esther
+called upon one of the king's chamberlains, and she finally got the
+history of the affair, as well as a copy of the writing, and
+thereupon made up her mind to go in and ask the king to save her
+people.</p>
+<p>At that time, Bismarck's idea of government being in full force,
+any one entering the king's presence without an invitation, was
+liable to be put to death. And in case any one did go in to see the
+king, if the king failed to hold out his golden sceptre, his life
+was not spared. Notwithstanding this order, Esther put on</p>
+<center>117</center>
+<p>her best clothes, and stood in the inner court of the king's
+house, while the king sat on his royal throne. When the king saw
+her standing in the court, he held out his sceptre, and Esther drew
+near, and he asked her what she wished; and thereupon she asked
+that the king and Haman might take dinner with her that day, and it
+was done. While they were feasting, the king again asked Esther
+what she wanted; and her second request was, that they would come
+and dine with her once more. When Haman left the palace that day,
+he saw Mordecai again at the gate, standing as stiffly as usual,
+and it filled Haman with indignation. So Haman, taking the advice
+of his wife, made a gallows fifty cubits high, for the special
+benefit of Mordecai. The next day, when Haman went to see the king,
+the king, having the night before refreshed his memory in respect
+to the service done him by Mordecai, asked Haman what ought to be
+done for the man whom the king wished to honor. Haman, supposing of
+course that the king referred to him, said that royal purple ought
+to be brought forth, such as the king wore, and the horse that the
+king rode on, and the crown-royal should be set on the man's
+head;&mdash;that one of the most noble princes should lead the
+horse,</p>
+<center>118</center>
+<p>and as he went through the streets, proclaim: "Thus "shall it be
+done to the man whom the king de"lighteth to honor."</p>
+<p>Thereupon the king told Haman that Mordecai was the man that the
+king wished to honor. And Haman was forced to lead this horse,
+backed by Mordecai, through the streets, shouting: "This shall "be
+done to the man whom the king delighteth to "honor." Immediately
+afterward, he went to the banquet that Esther had prepared, and the
+king again asked Esther her petition. She then asked for the
+salvation of her people; stating at the same time, that if her
+people had been sold into slavery, she would have held her tongue;
+but since they were about to be killed, she could not keep silent.
+The king asked her who had done this thing; and Esther replied that
+it was the wicked Haman.</p>
+<p>Thereupon one of the chamberlains, remembering the gallows that
+had been made for Mordecai, mentioned it, and the king immediately
+ordered that Haman be hanged thereon; which was done. And Mordecai
+immediately became Secretary of State. The order against the Jews
+was then rescinded; and Ahasuerus, willing to do anything that
+Esther desired, hanged all of Haman's folks. He not only did</p>
+<center>119</center>
+<p>this, but he immediately issued an order to all the Jews
+allowing them to kill the other folks. And the Jews got together
+throughout one hundred and twenty-seven provinces, "and such was
+their power, "that no man could stand against them; and there"upon
+the Jews smote all their enemies with the "stroke of the sword, and
+with slaughter and de"struction, and did whatever they pleased to
+those "who hated them." And in the palace of the king, the Jews
+slew and destroyed five hundred men, besides ten sons of Haman; and
+in the rest of the provinces, they slew seventy-five thousand
+people. And after this work of slaughter, the Jews had a day of
+gladness and feasting.</p>
+<p>One can see from this, what a beautiful Bible character Esther
+was&mdash;how filled with all that is womanly, gentle, kind and
+tender!</p>
+<p>This story is one of the most unreasonable, as well as one of
+the most heartless and revengeful, in the whole Bible. Ahasuerus
+was a monster, and Esther equally infamous; and yet, this woman is
+held up for the admiration of mankind by a Brooklyn pastor. There
+is this peculiarity about the book of Esther: the name of God is
+not mentioned in it, and the deity is not referred to, directly or
+indirectly;&mdash;yet</p>
+<center>120</center>
+<p>it is claimed to be an inspired book. If Jehovah wrote it, he
+certainly cannot be charged with egotism.</p>
+<p>I most cheerfully admit that the book of Ruth is quite a
+pleasant story, and the affection of Ruth for her mother-in-law
+exceedingly touching, but I am of opinion that Ruth did many things
+that would be regarded as somewhat indiscreet, even in the city of
+Brooklyn.</p>
+<p>All I can find about Hannah is, that she made a little coat for
+her boy Samuel, and brought it to him from year to year. Where he
+got his vest and pantaloons we are not told. But this fact seems
+hardly enough to make her name immortal.</p>
+<p>So also Mr. Talmage refers us to the wonderful woman Abigail.
+The story about Abigail, told in plain English, is this: David sent
+some of his followers to Nabal, Abigail's husband, and demanded
+food. Nabal, who knew nothing about David, and cared less, refused.
+Abigail heard about it, and took food to David and his servants.
+She was very much struck, apparently, with David and David with
+her. A few days afterward Nabal died&mdash;supposed to have been
+killed by the Lord&mdash;but probably poisoned; and thereupon David
+took Abigail to wife. The</p>
+<center>121</center>
+<p>whole matter should have been investigated by the grand
+jury.</p>
+<p>We are also referred to Dorcas, who no doubt was a good
+woman&mdash;made clothes for the poor and gave alms, as millions
+have done since then. It seems that this woman died. Peter was sent
+for, and thereupon raised her from the dead, and she is never
+mentioned any more. Is it not a little strange that a woman who had
+been actually raised from the dead, should have so completely
+passed out of the memory of her time, that when she died the second
+time, she was entirely unnoticed?</p>
+<p>Is it not astonishing that so little is in the New Testament
+concerning the mother of Christ? My own opinion is, that she was an
+excellent woman, and the wife of Joseph; and that Joseph was the
+actual father of Christ. I think there can be no reasonable doubt
+that such was the opinion of the authors of the original gospels.
+Upon any other hypothesis, it is impossible to account for their
+having given the genealogy of Joseph to prove that Christ was of
+the blood of David. The idea that he was the Son of God, or in any
+way miraculously produced, was an afterthought, and is hardly
+entitled now to serious consideration. The gospels were written so
+long after</p>
+<center>122</center>
+<p>the death of Christ, that very little was known of him, and
+substantially nothing of his parents. How is it that not one word
+is said about the death of Mary&mdash; not one word about the death
+of Joseph? How did it happen that Christ did not visit his mother
+after his resurrection? The first time he speaks to his mother is
+when he was twelve years old. His mother having told him that she
+and his father had been seeking him, he replied: "How is it that ye
+sought me: wist "ye not that I must be about my Father s
+business?"</p>
+<p>The second time was at the marriage feast in Cana, when he said
+to her: "Woman, what have I to do "with thee?" And the third time
+was at the cross, when "Jesus, seeing his mother standing by the
+"disciple whom he loved, said to her: Woman, be"hold thy son;" and
+to the disciple: "Behold thy "mother." And this is all.</p>
+<p>The best thing about the Catholic Church is the deification of
+Mary,&mdash;and yet this is denounced by Protestantism as idolatry.
+There is something in the human heart that prompts man to tell his
+faults more freely to the mother than to the father. The cruelty of
+Jehovah is softened by the mercy of Mary.</p>
+<p>Is it not strange that none of the disciples of Christ</p>
+<center>123</center>
+<p>said anything about their parents,&mdash;that we know absolutely
+nothing of them? Is there any evidence that they showed any
+particular respect even for the mother of Christ?</p>
+<p>Mary Magdalen is, in many respects, the tenderest and most
+loving character in the New Testament. According to the account,
+her love for Christ knew no abatement,&mdash;no change&mdash;true
+even in the hopeless shadow of the cross. Neither did it die with
+his death. She waited at the sepulchre; she hasted in the early
+morning to his tomb, and yet the only comfort Christ gave to this
+true and loving soul lies in these strangely cold and heartless
+words: "Touch "me not."</p>
+<p>There is nothing tending to show that the women spoken of in the
+Bible were superior to the ones we know. There are to-day millions
+of women making coats for their sons,&mdash;hundreds of thousands
+of women, true not simply to innocent people, falsely accused, but
+to criminals. Many a loving heart is as true to the gallows as Mary
+was to the cross. There are hundreds of thousands of women
+accepting poverty and want and dishonor, for the love they bear
+unworthy men; hundreds and thousands, hundreds and thousands,
+working day and night, with</p>
+<center>124</center>
+<p>strained eyes and tired hands, for husbands and
+children,&mdash;clothed in rags, housed in huts and hovels, hoping
+day after day for the angel of death. There are thousands of women
+in Christian England, working in iron, laboring in the fields and
+toiling in mines. There are hundreds and thousands in Europe,
+everywhere, doing the work of men&mdash;deformed by toil, and who
+would become simply wild and ferocious beasts, except for the love
+they bear for home and child.</p>
+<p>You need not go back four thousand years for heroines. The world
+is filled with them to-day. They do not belong to any nation, nor
+to any religion, nor exclusively to any race. Wherever woman is
+found, they are found.</p>
+<p>There is no description of any women in the Bible that equal
+thousands and thousands of women known to-day. The women mentioned
+by Mr. Talmage fall almost infinitely below, not simply those in
+real life, but the creations of the imagination found in the world
+of fiction. They will not compare with the women born of
+Shakespeare's brain. You will find none like Isabella, in whose
+spotless life, love and reason blended into perfect truth; nor
+Juliet, within whose heart passion and purity met, like white and
+red within the bosom of a rose; nor Cordelia, who chose to</p>
+<center>125</center>
+<p>suffer loss rather than show her wealth of love with those who
+gilded dross with golden words in hope of gain; nor Miranda, who
+told her love as freely as a flower gives its bosom to the kisses
+of the sun; nor Imogene, who asked: "What is it to be false?" nor
+Hermione, who bore with perfect faith and hope the cross of shame,
+and who at last forgave with all her heart; nor Desdemona, her
+innocence so perfect and her love so pure, that she was incapable
+of suspecting that another could suspect, and sought with dying
+words to hide her lover's crime.</p>
+<p>If we wish to find what the Bible thinks of woman, all that is
+necessary to do is to read it. We will find that everywhere she is
+spoken of simply as property,&mdash;as belonging absolutely to the
+man. We will find that whenever a man got tired of his wife, all he
+had to do was to give her a writing of divorcement, and that then
+the mother of his children became a houseless and a homeless
+wanderer. We will find that men were allowed to have as many wives
+as they could get, either by courtship, purchase, or conquest. The
+Jewish people in the olden time were in many respects like their
+barbarian neighbors.</p>
+<p>If we read the New Testament, we will find in the</p>
+<center>126</center>
+<p>epistle of Paul to Timothy, the following gallant passages:</p>
+<p>"Let the woman learn in silence, with all "subjection."</p>
+<p>"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp "authority over
+the man, but to be in silence."</p>
+<p>And for these kind, gentle and civilized remarks, the apostle
+Paul gives the following reasons:</p>
+<p>"For Adam was first formed, then Eve."</p>
+<p>"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman "being deceived was in
+the transgression."</p>
+<p>Certainly women ought to feel under great obligation to the
+apostle Paul.</p>
+<p>In the fifth chapter of the same epistle, Paul, advising Timothy
+as to what kind of people he should admit into his society or
+church, uses the following language:</p>
+<p>"Let not a widow be taken into the number under "threescore
+years old, having been the wife of one "man."</p>
+<p>"But the younger widows refuse, for when they "have begun to wax
+wanton against Christ, they will "marry."</p>
+<p>This same Paul did not seem to think polygamy wrong, except in a
+bishop. He tells Timothy that:</p>
+<center>127</center>
+<p>"A bishop must be blameless, the husband of one "wife."</p>
+<p>He also lays down the rule that a deacon should be the husband
+of one wife, leaving us to infer that the other members might have
+as many as they could get.</p>
+<p>In the second epistle to Timothy, Paul speaks of "grandmother
+Lois," who was referred to in such extravagant language by Mr.
+Talmage, and nothing is said touching her character in the least.
+All her virtues live in the imagination, and in the imagination
+alone.</p>
+<p>Paul, also, in his epistle to the Ephesians, says:</p>
+<p>"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own hus"bands, as unto the
+Lord. For the husband is the "head of the wife, even as Christ is
+the head of the "church."</p>
+<p>"Therefore, as the church is subject unto Christ, "so let the
+wives be to their own husbands, in "everything."</p>
+<p>You will find, too, that in the seventh chapter of First
+Corinthians, Paul laments that all men are not bachelors like
+himself, and in the second verse of that chapter he gives the only
+reason for which he was willing that men and women should marry. He
+advised all the unmarried, and all widows, to remain</p>
+<center>128</center>
+<p>as he was. In the ninth verse of this same chapter is a slander
+too vulgar for repetition,&mdash;an estimate of woman and of
+woman's love so low and vile, that every woman should hold the
+inspired author in infinite abhorrence.</p>
+<p>Paul sums up the whole matter, however, by telling those who
+have wives or husbands, to stay with them&mdash;as necessary evils
+only to be tolerated&mdash;but sincerely regrets that anybody was
+ever married; and finally says that:</p>
+<p>"They that have wives should be as though they "had none;"
+because, in his opinion:</p>
+<p>"He that is unmarried careth for the things that "belong to the
+Lord, how he may please the Lord; "but he that is married careth
+for the things that are "of the world, how he may please his
+wife."</p>
+<p>"There is this difference also," he tells us, "be"tween a wife
+and a virgin. The unmarried woman "careth for the things of the
+Lord, that she may be "holy both in body and in spirit; but she
+that is "married careth for the things of the world, how she " may
+please her husband."</p>
+<p>Of course, it is contended that these things have tended to the
+elevation of woman.</p>
+<p>The idea that it is better to love the Lord than to</p>
+<center>129</center>
+<p>love your wife, or your husband, is infinitely absurd. Nobody
+ever did love the Lord,&mdash;nobody can&mdash;until he becomes
+acquainted with him.</p>
+<p>Saint Paul also tells us that "Man is the image "and glory of
+God; but woman is the glory of "man;" and for the purpose of
+sustaining this position, says:</p>
+<p>"For the man is not of the woman, but the woman "of the man;
+neither was the man created for the "woman, but the woman for the
+man."</p>
+<p>Of course, we can all see that man could have gotten along well
+enough without woman, but woman, by no possibility, could have
+gotten along without man. And yet, this is called "inspired;" and
+this apostle Paul is supposed to have known more than all the
+people now upon the earth. No wonder Paul at last was constrained
+to say: "We are fools for "Christ's sake."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you account for the present condition of
+woman in what is known as "the civilized "world," unless the Bible
+has bettered her condition?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We must remember that thousands of things enter
+into the problem of civilization. Soil, climate, and geographical
+position, united with count</p>
+<center>130</center>
+<p>less other influences, have resulted in the civilization of our
+time. If we want to find what the influence of the Bible has been,
+we must ascertain the condition of Europe when the Bible was
+considered as absolutely true, and when it wielded its greatest
+influence.</p>
+<p>Christianity as a form of religion had actual possession of
+Europe during the Middle Ages. At that time, it exerted its
+greatest power. Then it had the opportunity of breaking the
+shackles from the limbs of woman. Christianity found the Roman
+matron a free woman. Polygamy was never known in Rome; and although
+divorces were allowed by law, the Roman state had been founded for
+more than five hundred years before either a husband or a wife
+asked for a divorce. From the foundation of Christianity,&mdash;I
+mean from the time it became the force in the Roman
+state,&mdash;woman, as such, went down in the scale of
+civilization. The sceptre was taken from her hands, and she became
+once more the slave and serf of man. The men also were made slaves,
+and woman has regained her liberty by the same means that man has
+regained his,&mdash;by wresting authority from the hands of the
+church. While the church had power, the wife and mother was not
+considered as good as the begging nun; the husband and father was
+far below the vermin-covered monk; homes were of no value compared
+with the cathedral; for God had to have a house, no matter how many
+of his children were wanderers. During all the years in which woman
+has struggled for equal liberty with man, she has been met with the
+Bible doctrine that she is the inferior of the man; that Adam was
+made first, and Eve afterwards; that man was not made for woman,
+but that woman was made for man.</p>
+<p>I find that in this day and generation, the meanest men have the
+lowest estimate of woman; that the greater the man is, the grander
+he is, the more he thinks of mother, wife and daughter. I also find
+that just in the proportion that he has lost confidence in the
+polygamy of Jehovah and in the advice and philosophy of Saint Paul,
+he believes in the rights and liberties of woman. As a matter of
+fact, men have risen from a perusal of the Bible, and murdered
+their wives. They have risen from reading its pages, and inflicted
+cruel and even mortal blows upon their children. Men have risen
+from reading the Bible and torn the flesh of others with red-hot
+pincers. They have laid down the sacred volume long enough to pour
+molten lead into the ears of others. They have stopped reading the
+sacred Scriptures for a sufficient time to</p>
+<center>132</center>
+<p>incarcerate their fellow-men, to load them with chains, and then
+they have gone back to their reading, allowing their victims to die
+in darkness and despair. Men have stopped reading the Old Testament
+long enough to drive a stake into the ground and collect a few
+fagots and burn an honest man. Even ministers have denied
+themselves the privilege of reading the sacred book long enough to
+tell falsehoods about their fellow-men. There is no crime that
+Bible readers and Bible believers and Bible worshipers and Bible
+defenders have not committed. There is no meanness of which some
+Bible reader, believer, and defender, has not been guilty. Bible
+believers and Bible defenders have filled the world with calumnies
+and slanders. Bible believers and Bible defenders have not only
+whipped their wives, but they have murdered them; they have
+murdered their children. I do not say that reading the Bible will
+necessarily make men dishonest, but I do say, that reading the
+Bible will not prevent their committing crimes. I do not say that
+believing the Bible will necessarily make men commit burglary, but
+I do say that a belief in the Bible has caused men to persecute
+each other, to imprison each other, and to burn each other.</p>
+<p>Only a little while ago, a British clergyman mur</p>
+<center>133</center>
+<p>dered his wife. Only a little while ago, an American Protestant
+clergyman whipped his boy to death because the boy refused to say a
+prayer.</p>
+<p>The Rev. Mr. Crowley not only believed the Bible, but was
+licensed to expound it. He had been "called" to the ministry, and
+upon his head had been laid the holy hands; and yet, he
+deliberately starved orphans, and while looking upon their sunken
+eyes and hollow cheeks, sung pious hymns and quoted with great
+unction: "Suffer little chil"dren to come unto me."</p>
+<p>As a matter of fact, in the last twenty years, more money has
+been stolen by Christian cashiers, Christian presidents, Christian
+directors, Christian trustees and Christian statesmen, than by all
+other convicts in all the penitentiaries in all the Christian
+world.</p>
+<p>The assassin of Henry the Fourth was a Bible reader and a Bible
+believer. The instigators of the massacre of St. Bartholomew were
+believers in your sacred Scriptures. The men who invested their
+money in the slave-trade believed themselves filled with the Holy
+Ghost, and read with rapture the Psalms of David and the Sermon on
+the Mount. The murderers of Scotch Presbyterians were believers in
+Revelation, and the</p>
+<p>134 Presbyterians, when they murdered others, were also
+believers. Nearly every man who expiates a crime upon the gallows
+is a believer in the Bible. For a thousand years, the daggers of
+assassination and the swords of war were blest by priests&mdash;by
+the believers in the sacred Scriptures. The assassin of President
+Garfield is a believer in the Bible, a hater of infidelity, a
+believer in personal inspiration, and he expects in a few weeks to
+join the winged and redeemed in heaven.</p>
+<p>If a man would follow, to-day, the teachings of the Old
+Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the
+teachings of the New, he would be insane.</p>
+<a name="link0006" id="link0006"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>FOURTH INTERVIEW.</h2>
+<p>Son. There is no devil.</p>
+<p>Mother. I know there is.</p>
+<p>Son. How do you know?</p>
+<p>Mother. Because they make pictures that look just like him.</p>
+<p>Son. But, mother&mdash;</p>
+<p>Mother. Don't "mother" me! You are trying to disgrace your
+parents.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. I want to ask you a few questions about Mr.
+Talmage's fourth sermon against you, entitled: "The Meanness of
+Infidelity," in which he compares you to Jehoiakim, who had the
+temerity to throw some of the writings of the weeping Jeremiah into
+the fire?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. So far as I am concerned, I really regret that a
+second edition of Jeremiah's roll was gotten out. It would have
+been far better for us all, if it had been left in ashes. There was
+nothing but curses and prophecies of evil, in the sacred roll
+that</p>
+<center>138</center>
+<p>Jehoiakim burned. The Bible tells us that Jehovah became
+exceedingly wroth because of the destruction of this roll, and
+pronounced a curse upon Jehoiakim and upon Palestine. I presume it
+was on account of the burning of that roll that the king of Babylon
+destroyed the chosen people of God. It was on account of that
+sacrilege that the Lord said of Jehoiakim: "He shall have none to
+sit upon the "throne of David; and his dead body shall be cast "out
+in the day to the heat, and in the night to the "frost." Any one
+can see how much a dead body would suffer under such circumstances.
+Imagine an infinitely wise, good and powerful God taking vengeance
+on the corpse of a barbarian king! What joy there must have been in
+heaven as the angels watched the alternate melting and freezing of
+the dead body of Jehoiakim!</p>
+<p>Jeremiah was probably the most accomplished croaker of all time.
+Nothing satisfied him. He was a prophetic pessimist,&mdash;an
+ancient Bourbon. He was only happy when predicting war, pestilence
+and famine. No wonder Jehoiakim despised him, and hated all he
+wrote.</p>
+<p>One can easily see the character of Jeremiah from the following
+occurrence: When the Babylonians</p>
+<center>139</center>
+<p>had succeeded in taking Jerusalem, and in sacking the city,
+Jeremiah was unfortunately taken prisoner; but Captain Nebuzaradan
+came to Jeremiah, and told him that he would let him go, because he
+had prophesied against his own country. He was regarded as a friend
+by the enemy.</p>
+<p>There was, at that time, as now, the old fight between the
+church and the civil power. Whenever a king failed to do what the
+priests wanted, they immediately prophesied overthrow, disaster,
+and defeat. Whenever the kings would hearken to their voice, and
+would see to it that the priests had plenty to eat and drink and
+wear, then they all declared that Jehovah would love that king,
+would let him live out all his days, and allow his son to reign in
+his stead. It was simply the old conflict that is still being
+waged, and it will be carried on until universal civilization does
+away with priestcraft and superstition.</p>
+<p>The priests in the days of Jeremiah were the same as now. They
+sought to rule the State. They pretended that, at their request,
+Jehovah would withhold or send the rain; that the seasons were
+within their power; that they with bitter words could blight the
+fields and curse the land with want and death. They gloried then,
+as now, in the exhibition of God's wrath.</p>
+<center>140</center>
+<p>In prosperity, the priests were forgotten. Success scorned them;
+Famine flattered them; Health laughed at them; Pestilence prayed to
+them; Disaster was their only friend.</p>
+<p>These old prophets prophesied nothing but evil, and
+consequently, when anything bad happened, they claimed it as a
+fulfillment, and pointed with pride to the fact that they had,
+weeks or months, or years before, foretold something of that kind.
+They were really the originators of the phrase, "I told you
+so!"</p>
+<p>There was a good old Methodist class-leader that lived down near
+a place called Liverpool, on the Illinois river. In the spring of
+1861 the old man, telling his experience, among other things said,
+that he had lived there by the river for more than thirty years,
+and he did not believe that a year had passed that there were not
+hundreds of people during the hunting season shooting ducks on
+Sunday; that he had told his wife thousands of times that no good
+would come of it; that evil would come of it; "And "now, said the
+old man, raising his voice with the importance of the announcement,
+"war is upon us!"</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you wish, as Mr. Talmage says, to destroy
+the Bible&mdash;to have all the copies burned to ashes? What do you
+wish to have done with the Bible?</p>
+<center>141</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I want the Bible treated exactly as we treat
+other books&mdash;preserve the good and throw away the foolish and
+the hurtful. I am fighting the doctrine of inspiration. As long as
+it is believed that the Bible is inspired, that book is the
+master&mdash;no mind is free. With that belief, intellectual
+liberty is impossible. With that belief, you can investigate only
+at the risk of losing your soul. The Catholics have a pope.
+Protestants laugh at them, and yet the pope is capable of
+intellectual advancement. In addition to this, the pope is mortal,
+and the church cannot be afflicted with the same idiot forever. The
+Protestants have a book for their pope. The book cannot advance.
+Year after year, and century after century, the book remains as
+ignorant as ever. It is only made better by those who believe in
+its inspiration giving better meanings to the words than their
+ancestors did. In this way it may be said that the Bible grows a
+little better.</p>
+<p>Why should we have a book for a master? That which otherwise
+might be a blessing, remains a curse. If every copy of the Bible
+were destroyed, all that is good in that book would be reproduced
+in a single day. Leave every copy of the Bible as it is, and have
+every human being believe in its inspiration,</p>
+<center>142</center>
+<p>and intellectual liberty would cease to exist. The whole race,
+from that moment, would go back toward the night of intellectual
+death.</p>
+<p>The Bible would do more harm if more people really believed it,
+and acted in accordance with its teachings. Now and then a Freeman
+puts the knife to the heart of his child. Now and then an assassin
+relies upon some sacred passage; but, as a rule, few men believe
+the Bible to be absolutely true.</p>
+<p>There are about fifteen hundred million people in the world.
+There are not two million who have read the Bible through. There
+are not two hundred million who ever saw the Bible. There are not
+five hundred million who ever heard that such a book exists.</p>
+<p>Christianity is claimed to be a religion for all mankind. It was
+founded more than eighteen centuries ago; and yet, not one human
+being in three has ever heard of it. As a matter of fact, for more
+than fourteen centuries and-a-half after the crucifixion of Christ,
+this hemisphere was absolutely unknown. There was not a Christian
+in the world who knew there was such a continent as ours, and all
+the inhabitants of this, the New World, were deprived of the gospel
+for fourteen centuries and-a-half, and</p>
+<center>143</center>
+<p>knew nothing of its blessings until they were informed by
+Spanish murderers and marauders. Even in the United States,
+Christianity is not keeping pace with the increase of population.
+When we take into consideration that it is aided by the momentum of
+eighteen centuries, is it not wonderful that it is not to-day
+holding its own? The reason of this is, that we are beginning to
+understand the Scriptures. We are beginningto see, and to see
+clearly, that they are simply of human origin, and that the Bible
+bears the marks of the barbarians who wrote it. The best educated
+among the clergy admit that we know but little as to the origin of
+the gospels; that we do not positively know the author of one of
+them; that it is really a matter of doubt as to who wrote the five
+books attributed to Moses. They admit now, that Isaiah was written
+by more than one person; that Solomon's Song was not written by
+that king; that Job is, in all probability, not a Jewish book; that
+Ecclesiastes must have been written by a Freethinker, and by one
+who had his doubts about the immortality of the soul. The best
+biblical students of the socalled orthodox world now admit that
+several stories were united to make the gospel of Saint Luke; that
+Hebrews is a selection from many fragments, and</p>
+<center>144</center>
+<p>that no human being, not afflicted with delirium tremens, can
+understand the book of Revelation.</p>
+<p>I am not the only one engaged in the work of destruction. Every
+Protestant who expresses a doubt as to the genuineness of a
+passage, is destroying the Bible. The gentlemen who have endeavored
+to treat hell as a question of syntax, and to prove that eternal
+punishment depends upon grammar, are helping to bring the
+Scriptures into contempt. Hundreds of years ago, the Catholics told
+the Protestant world that it was dangerous to give the Bible to the
+people. The Catholics were right; the Protestants were wrong. To
+read is to think. To think is to investigate. To investigate is,
+finally, to deny. That book should have been read only by priests.
+Every copy should have been under the lock and key of bishop,
+cardinal and pope. The common people should have received the Bible
+from the lips of the ministers. The world should have been kept in
+ignorance. In that way, and in that way only, could the pulpit have
+maintained its power. He who teaches a child the alphabet sows the
+seeds of heresy. I have lived to see the schoolhouse in many a
+village larger than the church. Every man who finds a fact, is the
+enemy of theology. Every man who expresses an</p>
+<center>145</center>
+<p>honest thought is a soldier in the army of intellectual
+liberty.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage thinks that you laugh too
+much,&mdash;that you exhibit too much mirth, and that no one should
+smile at sacred things?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The church has always feared ridicule. The
+minister despises laughter. He who builds upon ignorance and awe,
+fears intelligence and mirth. The theologians always begin by
+saying: "Let us be "solemn." They know that credulity and awe are
+twins. They also know that while Reason is the pilot of the soul,
+Humor carries the lamp. Whoever has the sense of humor fully
+developed, cannot, by any possibility, be an orthodox theologian.
+He would be his own laughing stock. The most absurd stories, the
+most laughable miracles, read in a solemn, stately way, sound to
+the ears of ignorance and awe like truth. It has been the object of
+the church for eighteen hundred years to prevent laughter.</p>
+<p>A smile is the dawn of a doubt.</p>
+<p>Ministers are always talking about death, and coffins, and dust,
+and worms,&mdash;the cross in this life, and the fires of another.
+They have been the enemies of human happiness. They hate to
+hear</p>
+<center>146</center>
+<p>even the laughter of children. There seems to have been a bond
+of sympathy between divinity and dyspepsia, between theology and
+indigestion. There is a certain pious hatred of pleasure, and those
+who have been "born again" are expected to despise "the transitory
+joys of this fleeting life." In this, they follow the example of
+their prophets, of whom they proudly say: "They never smiled."</p>
+<p>Whoever laughs at a holy falsehood, is called a "scoffer."
+Whoever gives vent to his natural feelings is regarded as a
+"blasphemer," and whoever examines the Bible as he examines other
+books, and relies upon his reason to interpret it, is denounced as
+a "reprobate."</p>
+<p>Let us respect the truth, let us laugh at miracles, and above
+all, let us be candid with each other.</p>
+<p>'Question. Mr. Talmage charges that you have, in your lectures,
+satirized your early home; that you have described with bitterness
+the Sundays that were forced upon you in your youth; and that in
+various ways you have denounced your father as a "tyrant," or a
+"bigot," or a "fool"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I have described the manner in which Sunday was
+kept when I was a boy. My father for</p>
+<center>147</center>
+<p>many years regarded the Sabbath as a sacred day. We kept Sunday
+as most other Christians did. I think that my father made a mistake
+about that day. I have no doubt he was honest about it, and really
+believed that it was pleasing to God for him to keep the Sabbath as
+he did.</p>
+<p>I think that Sunday should not be a day of gloom, of silence and
+despair, or a day in which to hear that the chances are largely in
+favor of your being eternally damned. That day, in my opinion,
+should be one of joy; a day to get acquainted with your wife and
+children; a day to visit the woods, or the sea, or the murmuring
+stream; a day to gather flowers, to visit the graves of your dead,
+to read old poems, old letters, old books; a day to rekindle the
+fires of friendship and love.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage says that my father was a Christian, and he then
+proceeds to malign his memory. It seems to me that a living
+Christian should at least tell the truth about one who sleeps the
+silent sleep of death.</p>
+<p>I have said nothing, in any of my lectures, about my father, or
+about my mother, or about any of my relatives. I have not the
+egotism to bring them forward. They have nothing to do with the
+subject</p>
+<center>148</center>
+<p>in hand. That my father was mistaken upon the subject of
+religion, I have no doubt. He was a good, a brave and honest man. I
+loved him living, and I love him dead. I never said to him an
+unkind word, and in my heart there never was of him an unkind
+thought. He was grand enough to say to me, that I had the same
+right to my opinion that he had to his. He was great enough to tell
+me to read the Bible for myself, to be honest with myself, and if
+after reading it I concluded it was not the word of God, that it
+was my duty to say so.</p>
+<p>My mother died when I was but a child; and from that
+day&mdash;the darkest of my life&mdash;her memory has been within
+my heart a sacred thing, and I have felt, through all these years,
+her kisses on my lips.</p>
+<p>I know that my parents&mdash;if they are conscious now &mdash;do
+not wish me to honor them at the expense of my manhood. I know that
+neither my father nor my mother would have me sacrifice upon their
+graves my honest thought. I know that I can only please them by
+being true to myself, by defending what I believe is good, by
+attacking what I believe is bad. Yet this minister of Christ is
+cruel enough, and malicious enough, to attack the reputation of the
+dead. What he says about my father is utterly and unqualifiedly
+false.</p>
+<center>149</center>
+<p>Right here, it may be well enough for me to say, that long
+before my father died, he threw aside, as unworthy of a place in
+the mind of an intelligent man, the infamous dogma of eternal fire;
+that he regarded with abhorrence many passages in the Old
+Testament; that he believed man, in another world, would have the
+eternal opportunity of doing right, and that the pity of God would
+last as long as the suffering of man. My father and my mother were
+good, in spite of the Old Testament. They were merciful, in spite
+of the one frightful doctrine in the New. They did not need the
+religion of Presbyterianism. Presbyterianism never made a human
+being better. If there is anything that will freeze the generous
+current of the soul, it is Calvinism. If there is any creed that
+will destroy charity, that will keep the tears of pity from the
+cheeks of men and women, it is Presbyterianism. If there is any
+doctrine calculated to make man bigoted, unsympathetic, and cruel,
+it is the doctrine of predestination. Neither my father, nor my
+mother, believed in the damnation of babes, nor in the inspiration
+of John Calvin.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage professes to be a Christian. What effect has the
+religion of Jesus Christ had upon him? Is he the product&mdash;the
+natural product&mdash;of Chris</p>
+<center>150</center>
+<p>tianity? Does the real Christian violate the sanctity of death?
+Does the real Christian malign the memory of the dead? Does the
+good Christian defame unanswering and unresisting dust?</p>
+<p>But why should I expect kindness from a Christian? Can a
+minister be expected to treat with fairness a man whom his God
+intends to damn? If a good God is going to burn an infidel forever,
+in the world to come, surely a Christian should have the right to
+persecute him a little here.</p>
+<p>What right has a Christian to ask anybody to love his father, or
+mother, or wife, or child? According to the gospels, Christ offered
+a reward to any one who would desert his father or his mother. He
+offered a premium to gentlemen for leaving their wives, and tried
+to bribe people to abandon their little children. He offered them
+happiness in this world, and a hundred fold in the next, if they
+would turn a deaf ear to the supplications of a father, the
+beseeching cry of a wife, and would leave the outstretched arms of
+babes. They were not even allowed to bury their fathers and their
+mothers. At that time they were expected to prefer Jesus to their
+wives and children. And now an orthodox minister says that a man
+ought not to express his honest</p>
+<center>151</center>
+<p>thoughts, because they do not happen to be in accord with the
+belief of his father or mother.</p>
+<p>Suppose Mr. Talmage should read the Bible carefully and without
+fear, and should come to the honest conclusion that it is not
+inspired, what course would he pursue for the purpose of honoring
+his parents? Would he say, "I cannot tell the truth, I must lie,
+"for the purpose of shedding a halo of glory around "the memory of
+my mother"? Would he say: "Of "course, my father and mother would a
+thousand "times rather have their son a hypocritical Christian
+"than an honest, manly unbeliever"? This might please Mr. Talmage,
+and accord perfectly with his view, but I prefer to say, that my
+father wished me to be an honest man. If he is in "heaven" now, I
+am sure that he would rather hear me attack the "inspired" word of
+God, honestly and bravely, than to hear me, in the solemn accents
+of hypocrisy, defend what I believe to be untrue.</p>
+<p>I may be mistaken in the estimate angels put upon human beings.
+It may be that God likes a pretended follower better than an
+honest, outspoken man&mdash;one who is an infidel simply because he
+does not understand this God. But it seems to me, in my
+unregenerate condition, touched and tainted as I am by original
+sin,</p>
+<center>152</center>
+<p>that a God of infinite power and wisdom ought to be able to make
+a man brave enough to have an opinion of his own. I cannot conceive
+of God taking any particular pride in any hypocrite he has ever
+made. Whatever he may say through his ministers, or whatever the
+angels may repeat, a manly devil stands higher in my estimation
+than an unmanly angel. I do not mean by this, that there are any
+unmanly angels, neither do I pretend that there are any manly
+devils. My meaning is this: If I have a Creator, I can only honor
+him by being true to myself, and kind and just to my fellow-men. If
+I wish to shed lustre upon my father and mother, I can only do so
+by being absolutely true to myself. Never will I lay the wreath of
+hypocrisy upon the tombs of those I love.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage takes the ground that we must defend the religious
+belief of our parents. He seems to forget that all parents do not
+believe exactly alike, and that everybody has at least two parents.
+Now, suppose that the father is an infidel, and the mother a
+Christian, what must the son do? Must he "drive "the ploughshare of
+contempt through the grave of "the father," for the purpose of
+honoring the mother; or must he drive the ploughshare through the
+grave</p>
+<center>153</center>
+<p>of the mother to honor the father; or must he compromise, and
+talk one way and believe another? If Mr. Talmage's doctrine is
+correct, only persons who have no knowledge of their parents can
+have liberty of opinion. Foundlings would be the only free people.
+I do not suppose that Mr. Talmage would go so far as to say that a
+child would be bound by the religion of the person upon whose
+door-steps he was found. If he does not, then over every foundling
+hospital should be these words: "Home of Intel"lectual
+Liberty."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you suppose that we will care nothing in the
+next world for those we loved in this? Is it worse in a man than in
+an angel, to care nothing for his mother?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. According to Mr. Talmage, a man can be perfectly
+happy in heaven, with his mother in hell. He will be so entranced
+with the society of Christ, that he will not even inquire what has
+become of his wife. The Holy Ghost will keep him in such a state of
+happy wonder, of ecstatic joy, that the names, even, of his
+children will never invade his memory. It may be that I am lacking
+in filial affection, but I would much rather be in hell, with my
+parents</p>
+<center>154</center>
+<p>in heaven, than be in heaven with my parents in hell. I think a
+thousand times more of my parents than I do of Christ. They knew
+me, they worked for me, they loved me, and I can imagine no heaven,
+no state of perfect bliss for me, in which they have no share. If
+God hates me, because I love them, I cannot love him.</p>
+<p>I cannot truthfully say that I look forward with any great
+degree of joy, to meeting with Haggai and Habakkuk; with Jeremiah,
+Nehemiah, Obadiah, Zechariah or Zephaniah; with Ezekiel, Micah, or
+Malachi; or even with Jonah. From what little I have read of their
+writings, I have not formed a very high opinion of the social
+qualities of these gentlemen.</p>
+<p>I want to meet the persons I have known; and if there is another
+life, I want to meet the really and the truly great&mdash;men who
+have been broad enough to be tender, and great enough to be
+kind.</p>
+<p>Because I differ with my parents, because I am convinced that my
+father was wrong in some of his religious opinions, Mr. Talmage
+insists that I disgrace my parents. How did the Christian religion
+commence? Did not the first disciples advocate theories that their
+parents denied? Were they</p>
+<center>155</center>
+<p>not false,&mdash;in his sense of the word,&mdash;to their
+fathers and mothers? How could there have been any progress in this
+world, if children had not gone beyond their parents? Do you
+consider that the inventor of a steel plow cast a slur upon his
+father who scratched the ground with a wooden one? I do not
+consider that an invention by the son is a slander upon the father;
+I regard each invention simply as an improvement; and every father
+should be exceedingly proud of an ingenious son. If Mr. Talmage has
+a son, it will be impossible for him to honor his father except by
+differing with him.</p>
+<p>It is very strange that Mr. Talmage, a believer in Christ,
+should object to any man for not loving his mother and his father,
+when his Master, according to the gospel of Saint Luke, says: "If
+any man "come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, "and
+wife, and children, and brethren, and sis"ters, yea, and his own
+life also, he cannot be my "disciple."</p>
+<p>According to this, I have to make my choice between my wife, my
+children, and Jesus Christ. I have concluded to stand by my
+folks&mdash;both in this world, and in "the world to come."</p>
+<center>156</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage asks you whether, in your judgment,
+the Bible was a good, or an evil, to your parents?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I think it was an evil. The worst thing about my
+father was his religion. He would have been far happier, in my
+judgment, without it. I think I get more real joy out of life than
+he did. He was a man of a very great and tender heart. He was
+continually thinking&mdash;for many years of his life&mdash;of the
+thousands and thousands going down to eternal fire. That doctrine
+filled his days with gloom, and his eyes with tears. I think that
+my father and mother would have been far happier had they believed
+as I do. How any one can get any joy out of the Christian religion
+is past my comprehension. If that religion is true, hundreds of
+millions are now in hell, and thousands of millions yet unborn will
+be. How such a fact can form any part of the "glad tidings of great
+joy," is amazing to me. It is impossible for me to love a being who
+would create countless millions for eternal pain. It is impossible
+for me to worship the God of the Bible, or the God of Calvin, or
+the God of the Westminster Catechism.</p>
+<center>157</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. I see that Mr. Talmage challenges you to read
+the fourteenth chapter of Saint John. Are you willing to accept the
+challenge; or have you ever read that chapter?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I do not claim to be very courageous, but I have
+read that chapter, and am very glad that Mr. Talmage has called
+attention to it. According to the gospels, Christ did many
+miracles. He healed the sick, gave sight to the blind, made the
+lame walk, and raised the dead. In the fourteenth chapter of Saint
+John, twelfth verse, I find the following:</p>
+<p>"Verily, verily, I say unto you: He that believeth "on me, the
+works that I do shall he do also; and "greater works than these
+shall he do, because I go "unto my Father."</p>
+<p>I am willing to accept that as a true test of a believer. If Mr.
+Talmage really believes in Jesus Christ, he ought to be able to do
+at least as great miracles as Christ is said to have done. Will Mr.
+Talmage have the kindness to read the fourteenth chapter of John,
+and then give me some proof, in accordance with that chapter, that
+he is a believer in Jesus Christ? Will he have the kindness to
+perform a miracle?&mdash;for instance, produce a "local flood,"
+make a worm to smite a gourd, or "prepare a fish"?</p>
+<center>158</center>
+<p>Can he do anything of that nature? Can he even cause a "vehement
+east wind"? What evidence, according to the Bible, can Mr. Talmage
+give of his belief? How does he prove that he is a Christian? By
+hating infidels and maligning Christians? Let Mr. Talmage furnish
+the evidence, according to the fourteenth chapter of Saint John, or
+forever after hold his peace.</p>
+<p>He has my thanks for calling my attention to the fourteenth
+chapter of Saint John.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges that you are attempting to
+destroy the "chief solace of the world," without offering any
+substitute. How do you answer this?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If he calls Christianity the "chief solace "of
+the world," and if by Christianity he means that all who do not
+believe in the inspiration of the Scriptures, and have no faith in
+Jesus Christ, are to be eternally damned, then I admit that I am
+doing the best I can to take that "solace" from the human heart. I
+do not believe that the Bible, when properly understood, is, or
+ever has been, a comfort to any human being. Surely, no good man
+can be comforted by reading a book in which he finds that</p>
+<center>159</center>
+<p>a large majority of mankind have been sentenced to eternal fire.
+In the doctrine of total depravity there is no "solace." In the
+doctrine of "election" there can be no joy until the returns are
+in, and a majority found for you.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage says that you are taking away the
+world's medicines, and in place of anaesthetics, in place of
+laudanum drops, you read an essay to the man in pain, on the
+absurdities of morphine and nervines in general.</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is exactly the other way. I say, let us depend
+upon morphine, not upon prayer. Do not send for the
+minister&mdash;take a little laudanum. Do not read your
+Bible,&mdash;chloroform is better. Do not waste your time listening
+to meaningless sermons, but take real, genuine soporifics.</p>
+<p>I regard the discoverer of ether as a benefactor. I look upon
+every great surgeon as a blessing to mankind. I regard one doctor,
+skilled in his profession, of more importance to the world than all
+the orthodox ministers.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage should remember that for hundreds of years, the
+church fought, with all its power, the science of medicine. Priests
+used to cure diseases</p>
+<center>160</center>
+<p>by selling little pieces of paper covered with cabalistic marks.
+They filled their treasuries by the sale of holy water. They healed
+the sick by relics&mdash;the teeth and ribs of saints, the
+finger-nails of departed worthies, and the hair of glorified
+virgins. Infidelity said: "Send for the doctor." Theology said:
+"Stick "to the priest." Infidelity,&mdash;that is to say,
+science,&mdash; said: "Vaccinate him." The priest said:
+"Pray;&mdash; "I will sell you a charm." The doctor was regarded as
+a man who was endeavoring to take from God his means of punishment.
+He was supposed to spike the artillery of Jehovah, to wet the
+powder of the Almighty, and to steal the flint from the musket of
+heavenly retribution.</p>
+<p>Infidelity has never relied upon essays, it has never relied
+upon words, it has never relied upon prayers, it has never relied
+upon angels or gods; it has relied upon the honest efforts of men
+and women. It has relied upon investigation, observation,
+experience, and above all, upon human reason.</p>
+<p>We, in America, know how much prayers are worth. We have lately
+seen millions of people upon their knees. What was the result?</p>
+<p>In the olden times, when a plague made its appearance, the
+people fell upon their knees and died.</p>
+<center>161</center>
+<p>When pestilence came, they rushed to their cathedrals, they
+implored their priests&mdash;and died. God had no pity upon his
+ignorant children. At last, Science came to the rescue.
+Science,&mdash;not in the attitude of prayer, with closed eyes, but
+in the attitude of investigation, with open eyes,&mdash;looked for
+and discovered some of the laws of health. Science found that
+cleanliness was far better than godliness. It said: Do not spend
+your time in praying;&mdash;clean your houses, clean your streets,
+clean yourselves. This pestilence is not a punishment. Health is
+not simply a favor of the gods. Health depends upon conditions, and
+when the conditions are violated, disease is inevitable, and no God
+can save you. Health depends upon your surroundings, and when these
+are favorable, the roses are in your cheeks.</p>
+<p>We find in the Old Testament that God gave to Moses a thousand
+directions for ascertaining the presence of leprosy. Yet it never
+occurred to this God to tell Moses how to cure the disease. Within
+the lids of the Old Testament, we have no information upon a
+subject of such vital importance to mankind.</p>
+<p>It may, however, be claimed by Mr. Talmage, that this statement
+is a little too broad, and I will therefore</p>
+<center>162</center>
+<p>give one recipe that I find in the fourteenth chapter of
+Leviticus:</p>
+<p>"Then shall the priest command to take for him " that is to be
+cleansed two birds alive and clean, and "cedar wood, and scarlet,
+and hyssop; and the priest "shall command that one of the birds be
+killed in an "earthen vessel over running water. As for the "living
+bird, he shall take it, and the cedar wood, "and the scarlet, and
+the hyssop, and shall dip them "and the living bird in the blood of
+the bird that was "killed over the running water. And he shall
+"sprinkle upon him that is to be cleansed from the "leprosy seven
+times, and shall pronounce him clean, "and shall let the living
+bird loose into the open "field."</p>
+<p>Prophets were predicting evil&mdash;filling the country with
+their wails and cries, and yet it never occurred to them to tell
+one solitary thing of the slightest importance to mankind. Why did
+not these inspired men tell us how to cure some of the diseases
+that have decimated the world? Instead of spending forty days and
+forty nights with Moses, telling him how to build a large tent, and
+how to cut the garments of priests, why did God not give him a
+little useful information in respect to the laws of health?</p>
+<center>163</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage must remember that the church has invented no
+anodynes, no anaesthetics, no medicines, and has affected no cures.
+The doctors have not been inspired. All these useful things men
+have discovered for themselves, aided by no prophet and by no
+divine Savior. Just to the extent that man has depended upon the
+other world, he has failed to make the best of this. Just in the
+proportion that he has depended on his own efforts, he has
+advanced. The church has always said:</p>
+<p>"Consider the lilies of the field; they toil not, "neither do
+they spin." "Take no thought for the "morrow." Whereas, the real
+common sense of this world has said: "No matter whether lilies toil
+and spin, or not, if you would succeed, you must work; you must
+take thought for the morrow, you must look beyond the present day,
+you must provide for your wife and your children."</p>
+<p>What can I be expected to give as a substitute for perdition? It
+is enough to show that it does not exist. What does a man want in
+place of a disease? Health. And what is better calculated to
+increase the happiness of mankind than to know that the doctrine of
+eternal pain is infinitely and absurdly false?</p>
+<center>164</center>
+<p>Take theology from the world, and natural Love remains, Science
+is still here, Music will not be lost, the page of History will
+still be open, the walls of the world will still be adorned with
+Art, and the niches rich with Sculpture.</p>
+<p>Take theology from the world, and we all shall have a common
+hope,&mdash;and the fear of hell will be removed from every human
+heart.</p>
+<p>Take theology from the world, and millions of men will be
+compelled to earn an honest living. Impudence will not tax
+credulity. The vampire of hypocrisy will not suck the blood of
+honest toil.</p>
+<p>Take theology from the world, and the churches can be schools,
+and the cathedrals universities.</p>
+<p>Take theology from the world, and the money wasted on
+superstition will do away with want.</p>
+<p>Take theology from the world, and every brain will find itself
+without a chain.</p>
+<p>There is a vast difference between what is called infidelity and
+theology.</p>
+<p>Infidelity is honest. When it reaches the confines of reason, it
+says: "I know no further."</p>
+<p>Infidelity does not palm its guess upon an ignorant world as a
+demonstration.</p>
+<center>165</center>
+<p>Infidelity proves nothing by slander&mdash;establishes nothing
+by abuse.</p>
+<p>Infidelity has nothing to hide. It has no "holy "of holies,"
+except the abode of truth. It has no curtain that the hand of
+investigation has not the right to draw aside. It lives in the
+cloudless light, in the very noon, of human eyes.</p>
+<p>Infidelity has no bible to be blasphemed. It does not cringe
+before an angry God.</p>
+<p>Infidelity says to every man: Investigate for yourself. There is
+no punishment for unbelief.</p>
+<p>Infidelity asks no protection from legislatures. It wants no man
+fined because he contradicts its doctrines.</p>
+<p>Infidelity relies simply upon evidence&mdash;not evidence of the
+dead, but of the living.</p>
+<p>Infidelity has no infallible pope. It relies only upon
+infallible fact. It has no priest except the interpreter of Nature.
+The universe is its church. Its bible is everything that is true.
+It implores every man to verify every word for himself, and it
+implores him to say, if he does not believe it, that he does
+not.</p>
+<p>Infidelity does not fear contradiction. It is not afraid of
+being laughed at. It invites the scrutiny</p>
+<center>166</center>
+<p>of all doubters, of all unbelievers. It does not rely upon awe,
+but upon reason. It says to the whole world: It is dangerous not to
+think. It is dangerous not to be honest. It is dangerous not to
+investigate. It is dangerous not to follow where your reason
+leads.</p>
+<p>Infidelity requires every man to judge for himself. Infidelity
+preserves the manhood of man.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage also says that you are trying to
+put out the light-houses on the coast of the next world; that you
+are "about to leave everybody "in darkness at the narrows of
+death"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. There can be no necessity for these light-houses,
+unless the God of Mr. Talmage has planted rocks and reefs within
+that unknown sea. If there is no hell, there is no need of any
+lighthouse on the shores of the next world; and only those are
+interested in keeping up these pretended light-houses who are paid
+for trimming invisible wicks and supplying the lamps with
+allegorical oil. Mr. Talmage is one of these light-house keepers,
+and he knows that if it is ascertained that the coast is not
+dangerous, the light-house will be abandoned, and the keeper will
+have to find employment else</p>
+<center>167</center>
+<p>where. As a matter of fact, every church is a useless
+light-house. It warns us only against breakers that do not exist.
+Whenever a mariner tells one of the keepers that there is no
+danger, then all the keepers combine to destroy the reputation of
+that mariner.</p>
+<p>No one has returned from the other world to tell us whether they
+have light-houses on that shore or not; or whether the light-houses
+on this shore&mdash;one of which Mr. Talmage is tending&mdash;have
+ever sent a cheering ray across the sea.</p>
+<p>Nature has furnished every human being with a light more or less
+brilliant, more or less powerful. That light is Reason; and he who
+blows that light out, is in utter darkness. It has been the
+business of the church for centuries to extinguish the lamp of the
+mind, and to convince the people that their own reason is utterly
+unreliable. The church has asked all men to rely only upon the
+light of the church.</p>
+<p>Every priest has been not only a light-house but a guide-board.
+He has threatened eternal damnation to all who travel on some other
+road. These guide-boards have been toll-gates, and the principal
+reason why the churches have wanted people to go their road is,
+that tolls might be collected. They</p>
+<center>168</center>
+<p>have regarded unbelievers as the owners of turnpikes do people
+who go 'cross lots. The toll-gate man always tells you that other
+roads are dangerous&mdash; filled with quagmires and
+quicksands.</p>
+<p>Every church is a kind of insurance society, and proposes, for a
+small premium, to keep you from eternal fire. Of course, the man
+who tells you that there is to be no fire, interferes with the
+business, and is denounced as a malicious meddler and blasphemer.
+The fires of this world sustain the same relation to insurance
+companies that the fires of the next do to the churches.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage also insists that I am breaking up the "life-boats."
+Why should a ship built by infinite wisdom, by an infinite
+shipbuilder, carry life-boats? The reason we have life-boats now
+is, that we are not entirely sure of the ship. We know that man has
+not yet found out how to make a ship that can certainly brave all
+the dangers of the deep. For this reason we carry life-boats. But
+infinite wisdom must surely build ships that do not need
+life-boats. Is there to be a wreck at last? Is God's ship to go
+down in storm and darkness? Will it be necessary at last to forsake
+his ship and depend upon life-boats?</p>
+<p>For my part, I do not wish to be rescued by a life</p>
+<center>169</center>
+<p>boat. When the ship, bearing the whole world, goes down, I am
+willing to go down with it&mdash;with my wife, with my children,
+and with those I have loved. I will not slip ashore in an orthodox
+canoe with somebody else's folks,&mdash;I will stay with my
+own.</p>
+<p>What a picture is presented by the church! A few in life's last
+storm are to be saved; and the saved, when they reach shore, are to
+look back with joy upon the great ship going down to the eternal
+depths! This is what I call the unutterable meanness of orthodox
+Christianity.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage speaks of the "meanness of in"fidelity."</p>
+<p>The meanness of orthodox Christianity permits the husband to be
+saved, and to be ineffably happy, while the wife of his bosom is
+suffering the tortures of hell.</p>
+<p>The meanness of orthodox Christianity tells the boy that he can
+go to heaven and have an eternity of bliss, and that this bliss
+will not even be clouded by the fact that the mother who bore him
+writhes in eternal pain.</p>
+<p>The meanness of orthodox Christianity allows a soul to be so
+captivated with the companionship of angels as to forget all the
+old loves and friendships of this world.</p>
+<center>170</center>
+<p>The meanness of orthodox Christianity, its unspeakable
+selfishness, allows a soul in heaven to exult in the fact of its
+own salvation, and at the same time to care nothing for the
+damnation of all the rest.</p>
+<p>The orthodox Christian says that if he can only save his little
+soul, if he can barely squeeze into heaven, if he can only get past
+Saint Peter's gate, if he can by hook or crook climb up the
+opposite bank of Jordan, if he can get a harp in his hand, it
+matters not to him what becomes of brother or sister, father or
+mother, wife or child. He is willing that they should burn if he
+can sing.</p>
+<p>Oh, the unutterable meanness of orthodox Christianity, the
+infinite heartlessness of the orthodox angels, who with tearless
+eyes will forever gaze upon the agonies of those who were once
+blood of their blood and flesh of their flesh!</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage describes a picture of the scourging of Christ,
+painted by Rubens, and he tells us that he was so appalled by this
+picture&mdash;by the sight of the naked back, swollen and
+bleeding&mdash;that he could not have lived had he continued to
+look; yet this same man, who could not bear to gaze upon a painted
+pain, expects to be perfectly happy in heaven, while countiess
+billions of actual&mdash;not painted&mdash;men,</p>
+<center>171</center>
+<p>women, and children writhe&mdash;not in a pictured flame, but in
+the real and quenchless fires of hell.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage also claims that we are indebted to
+Christianity for schools, colleges, universities, hospitals and
+asylums?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This shows that Mr. Talmage has not read the
+history of the world. Long before Christianity had a place, there
+were vast libraries. There were thousands of schools before a
+Christian existed on the earth. There were hundreds of hospitals
+before a line of the New Testament was written. Hundreds of years
+before Christ, there were hospitals in India,&mdash;not only for
+men, women and children, but even for beasts. There were hospitals
+in Egypt long before Moses was born. They knew enough then to cure
+insanity with music. They surrounded the insane with flowers, and
+treated them with kindness.</p>
+<p>The great libraries at Alexandria were not Christian. The most
+intellectual nation of the Middle Ages was not Christian. While
+Christians were imprisoning people for saying that the earth is
+round, the Moors in Spain were teaching geography with globes. They
+had even calculated the circumference of the earth by the tides of
+the Red Sea.</p>
+<p>Where did education come from? For a thousand</p>
+<center>172</center>
+<p>years Christianity destroyed books and paintings and statues.
+For a thousand years Christianity was filled with hatred toward
+every effort of the human mind. We got paper from the Moors.
+Printing had been known thousands of years before, in China. A few
+manuscripts, containing a portion of the literature of Greece, a
+few enriched with the best thoughts of the Roman world, had been
+preserved from the general wreck and ruin wrought by Christian
+hate. These became the seeds of intellectual progress. For a
+thousand years Christianity controlled Europe. The Mohammedans were
+far in advance of the Christians with hospitals and asylums and
+institutions of learning.</p>
+<p>Just in proportion that we have done away with what is known as
+orthodox Christianity, humanity has taken its place. Humanity has
+built all the asylums, all the hospitals. Humanity, not
+Christianity, has done these things. The people of this country are
+all willing to be taxed that the insane may be cared for, that the
+sick, the helpless, and the destitute may be provided for, not
+because they are Christians, but because they are humane; and they
+are not humane because they are Christians.</p>
+<p>The colleges of this country have been poisoned by</p>
+<center>173</center>
+<p>theology, and their usefulness almost destroyed. Just in
+proportion that they have gotten from ecclesiastical control, they
+have become a good. That college, today, which has the most
+religion has the least true learning; and that college which is the
+nearest free, does the most good. Colleges that pit Moses against
+modern geology, that undertake to overthrow the Copernican system
+by appealing to Joshua, have done, and are doing, very little good
+in this world.</p>
+<p>Suppose that in the first century Pagans had said to Christians:
+Where are your hospitals, where are your asylums, where are your
+works of charity, where are your colleges and universities?</p>
+<p>The Christians undoubtedly would have replied: We have not been
+in power. There are but few of us. We have been persecuted to that
+degree that it has been about as much as we could do to maintain
+ourselves.</p>
+<p>Reasonable Pagans would have regarded such an answer as
+perfectly satisfactory. Yet that question could have been asked of
+Christianity after it had held the reins of power for a thousand
+years, and Christians would have been compelled to say: We have no
+universities, we have no colleges, we have no real asylums.</p>
+<center>174</center>
+<p>The Christian now asks of the atheist: Where is your asylum,
+where is your hospital, where is your university? And the atheist
+answers: There have been but few atheists. The world is not yet
+sufficiently advanced to produce them. For hundreds and hundreds of
+years, the minds of men have been darkened by the superstitions of
+Christianity. Priests have thundered against human knowledge, have
+denounced human reason, and have done all within their power to
+prevent the real progress of mankind.</p>
+<p>You must also remember that Christianity has made more lunatics
+than it ever provided asylums for. Christianity has driven more men
+and women crazy than all other religions combined. Hundreds and
+thousands and millions have lost their reason in contemplating the
+monstrous falsehoods of Christianity. Thousands of mothers,
+thinking of their sons in hell&mdash;thousands of fathers,
+believing their boys and girls in perdition, have lost their
+reason.</p>
+<p>So, let it be distinctly understood, that Christianity has made
+ten lunatics&mdash;twenty&mdash;one hundred&mdash; where it has
+provided an asylum for one.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage also speaks of the hospitals. When we take into
+consideration the wars that have been waged on account of religion,
+the countless thou</p>
+<center>175</center>
+<p>sands who have been maimed and wounded, through all the years,
+by wars produced by theology&mdash;then I say that Christianity has
+not built hospitals enough to take care of her own
+wounded&mdash;not enough to take care of one in a hundred. Where
+Christianity has bound up the wounds of one, it has pierced the
+bodies of a hundred others with sword and spear, with bayonet and
+ball. Where she has provided one bed in a hospital, she has laid
+away a hundred bodies in bloody graves.</p>
+<p>Of course I do not expect the church to do anything but beg.
+Churches produce nothing. They are like the lilies of the field.
+"They toil not, neither "do they spin, yet Solomon in all his glory
+was not "arrayed like most of them."</p>
+<p>The churches raise no corn nor wheat. They simply collect
+tithes. They carry the alms' dish. They pass the plate. They take
+toll. Of course a mendicant is not expected to produce anything. He
+does not support,&mdash;he is supported. The church does not help.
+She receives, she devours, she consumes, and she produces only
+discord. She exchanges mistakes for provisions, faith for food,
+prayers for pence. The church is a beggar. But we have this
+consolation: In this age of the world, this</p>
+<center>176</center>
+<p>beggar is not on horseback, and even the walking is not
+good.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage says that infidels have done no
+good?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, let us see. In the first place, what is an
+"infidel"? He is simply a man in advance of his time. He is an
+intellectual pioneer. He is the dawn of a new day. He is a
+gentleman with an idea of his own, for which he gave no receipt to
+the church. He is a man who has not been branded as the property of
+some one else. An "infidel" is one who has made a declaration of
+independence. In other words, he is a man who has had a doubt. To
+have a doubt means that you have thought upon the
+subject&mdash;that you have investigated the question; and he who
+investigates any religion will doubt.</p>
+<p>All the advance that has been made in the religious world has
+been made by "infidels," by "heretics," by "skeptics," by
+doubters,&mdash;that is to say, by thoughtful men. The doubt does
+not come from the ignorant members of your congregations. Heresy is
+not born of stupidity,&mdash;it is not the child of the brainless.
+He who is so afraid of hurting the reputation of his father and
+mother that he refuses to advance,</p>
+<center>177</center>
+<p>is not a "heretic." The "heretic" is not true to falsehood.
+Orthodoxy is. He who stands faithfully by a mistake is "orthodox."
+He who, discovering that it is a mistake, has the courage to say
+so, is an "infidel."</p>
+<p>An infidel is an intellectual discoverer&mdash;one who finds new
+isles, new continents, in the vast realm of thought. The dwellers
+on the orthodox shore denounce this brave sailor of the seas as a
+buccaneer.</p>
+<p>And yet we are told that the thinkers of new thoughts have never
+been of value to the world. Voltaire did more for human liberty
+than all the orthodox ministers living and dead. He broke a
+thousand times more chains than Luther. Luther simply substituted
+his chain for that of the Catholics. Voltaire had none. The
+Encyclopaedists of France did more for liberty than all the writers
+upon theology. Bruno did more for mankind than millions of
+"be"lievers." Spinoza contributed more to the growth of the human
+intellect than all the orthodox theologians.</p>
+<p>Men have not done good simply because they have believed this or
+that doctrine. They have done good in the intellectual world as
+they have thought and secured for others the liberty to think and
+to ex</p>
+<center>178</center>
+<p>press their thoughts. They have done good in the physical world
+by teaching their fellows how to triumph over the obstructions of
+nature. Every man who has taught his fellow-man to think, has been
+a benefactor. Every one who has supplied his fellow-men with facts,
+and insisted upon their right to think, has been a blessing to his
+kind.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage, in order to show what Christians have done, points
+us to Whitefield, Luther, Oberlin, Judson, Martyn, Bishop Mcllvaine
+and Hannah More. I would not for one moment compare George
+Whitefield with the inventor of movable type, and there is no
+parallel between Frederick Oberlin and the inventor of paper; not
+the slightest between Martin Luther and the discoverer of the New
+World; not the least between Adoniram Judson and the inventor of
+the reaper, nor between Henry Martyn and the discoverer of
+photography. Of what use to the world was Bishop Mcllvaine,
+compared with the inventor of needles? Of what use were a hundred
+such priests compared with the inventor of matches, or even of
+clothes-pins? Suppose that Hannah More had never lived? about the
+same number would read her writings now. It is hardly fair to
+compare her with the inventor of the steamship?</p>
+<center>179</center>
+<p>The progress of the world&mdash;its present improved
+condition&mdash;can be accounted for only by the discoveries of
+genius, only by men who have had the courage to express their
+honest thoughts.</p>
+<p>After all, the man who invented the telescope found out more
+about heaven than the closed eyes of prayer had ever discovered. I
+feel absolutely certain that the inventor of the steam engine was a
+greater benefactor to mankind than the writer of the Presbyterian
+creed. I may be mistaken, but I think that railways have done more
+to civilize mankind, than any system of theology. I believe that
+the printing press has done more for the world than the pulpit. It
+is my opinion that the discoveries of Kepler did a thousand times
+more to enlarge the minds of men than the prophecies of Daniel. I
+feel under far greater obligation to Humboldt than to Haggai. The
+inventor of the plow did more good than the maker of the first
+rosary&mdash;because, say what you will, plowing is better than
+praying; we can live by plowing without praying, but we can not
+live by praying without plowing. So I put my faith in the plow.</p>
+<p>As Jehovah has ceased to make garments for his
+children,&mdash;as he has stopped making coats of skins,</p>
+<center>180</center>
+<p>I have great respect for the inventors of the spinningjenny and
+the sewing machine. As no more laws are given from Sinai, I have
+admiration for the real statesmen. As miracles have ceased, I rely
+on medicine, and on a reasonable compliance with the conditions of
+health.</p>
+<p>I have infinite respect for the inventors, the thinkers, the
+discoverers, and above all, for the unknown millions who have,
+without the hope of fame, lived and labored for the ones they
+loved.</p>
+<a name="link0007" id="link0007"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>FIFTH INTERVIEW,</h2>
+<p>Parson. You had belter join the church; it is the safer way.</p>
+<p>Sinner. I can't live up to your doctrines, and you know it.</p>
+<p>Parson. Well, you can come as near it in the church as out; and
+forgiveness</p>
+<p>will be easier if you join us.</p>
+<p>Sinner. What do you mean by that?</p>
+<p>Parson. I will tell you. If you join the church, and happen to
+back-slide now and then, Christ will say to his Father: "That man
+is a "friend of mine, and you may charge his account to me."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What have you to say about the fifth sermon of
+the Rev. Mr. Talmage in reply to you?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The text from which he preached is: "Do men
+gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?" I am compelled to
+answer these questions in the negative. That is one reason why I am
+an infidel. I do not believe that anybody can gather grapes of
+thorns, or figs of thistles. That is exactly my doctrine. But the
+doctrine of the church is, that you can. The</p>
+<center>184</center>
+<p>church says, that just at the last, no matter if you have spent
+your whole life in raising thorns and thistles, in planting and
+watering and hoeing and plowing thorns and thistles&mdash;that just
+at the last, if you will repent, between hoeing the last thistle
+and taking the last breath, you can reach out the white and palsied
+hand of death and gather from every thorn a cluster of grapes and
+from every thistle an abundance of figs. The church insists that in
+this way you can gather enough grapes and figs to last you through
+all eternity.</p>
+<p>My doctrine is, that he who raises thorns must harvest thorns.
+If you sow thorns, you must reap thorns; and there is no way by
+which an innocent being can have the thorns you raise thrust into
+his brow, while you gather his grapes.</p>
+<p>But Christianity goes even further than this. It insists that a
+man can plant grapes and gather thorns. Mr. Talmage insists that,
+no matter how good you are, no matter how kind, no matter how much
+you love your wife and children, no matter how many self-denying
+acts you do, you will not be allowed to eat of the grapes you
+raise; that God will step between you and the natural consequences
+of your goodness, and not allow you to reap what you sow.</p>
+<center>185</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage insists, that if you have no faith in the Lord Jesus
+Christ, although you have been good here, you will reap eternal
+pain as your harvest; that the effect of honesty and kindness will
+not be peace and joy, but agony and pain. So that the church does
+insist not only that you can gather grapes from thorns, but thorns
+from grapes.</p>
+<p>I believe exactly the other way. If a man is a good man here,
+dying will not change him, and he will land on the shore of another
+world&mdash;if there is one&mdash;the same good man that he was
+when he left this; and I do not believe there is any God in this
+universe who can afford to damn a good man. This God will say to
+this man: You loved your wife, your children, and your friends, and
+I love you. You treated others with kindness; I will treat you in
+the same way. But Mr. Talmage steps up to his God, nudges his
+elbow, and says: Although he was a very good man, he belonged to no
+church; he was a blasphemer; he denied the whale story, and after I
+explained that Jonah was only in the whale's mouth, he still denied
+it; and thereupon Mr. Talmage expects that his infinite God will
+fly in a passion, and in a perfect rage will say: What! did he deny
+that story? Let him be eternally damned!</p>
+<center>186</center>
+<p>Not only this, but Mr. Talmage insists that a man may have
+treated his wife like a wild beast; may have trampled his child
+beneath the feet of his rage; may have lived a life of dishonesty,
+of infamy, and yet, having repented on his dying bed, having made
+his peace with God through the intercession of his Son, he will be
+welcomed in heaven with shouts of joy. I deny it. I do not believe
+that angels can be so quickly made from rascals. I have but little
+confidence in repentance without restitution, and a husband who has
+driven a wife to insanity and death by his cruelty&mdash;afterward
+repenting and finding himself in heaven, and missing his
+wife,&mdash;were he worthy to be an angel, would wander through all
+the gulfs of hell until he clasped her once again..</p>
+<p>Now, the next question is, What must be done with those who are
+sometimes good and sometimes bad? That is my condition. If there is
+another world, I expect to have the same opportunity of behaving
+myself that I have here. If, when I get there, I fail to act as I
+should, I expect to reap what I sow. If, when I arrive at the New
+Jerusalem, I go into the thorn business, I expect to harvest what I
+plant. If I am wise enough to start a vineyard, I expect to have
+grapes in the early fall. But if I do there as I</p>
+<center>187</center>
+<p>have done here&mdash;plant some grapes and some thorns, and
+harvest them together&mdash;I expect to fare very much as I have
+fared here. But I expect year by year to grow wiser, to plant fewer
+thorns every spring, and more grapes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges that you have taken the
+ground that the Bible is a cruel book, and has produced cruel
+people?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, I have taken that ground, and I maintain it.
+The Bible was produced by cruel people, and in its turn it has
+produced people like its authors. The extermination of the
+Canaanites was cruel. Most of the laws of Moses were bloodthirsty
+and cruel. Hundreds of offences were punishable by death, while
+now, in civilized countries, there are only two crimes for which
+the punishment is capital. I charge that Moses and Joshua and David
+and Samuel and Solomon were cruel. I believe that to read and
+believe the Old Testament naturally makes a man careless of human
+life. That book has produced hundreds of religious wars, and it has
+furnished the battle-cries of bigotry for fifteen hundred
+years.</p>
+<p>The Old Testament is filled with cruelty, but its cruelty stops
+with this world, its malice ends with</p>
+<center>188</center>
+<p>death; whenever its victim has reached the grave, revenge is
+satisfied. Not so with the New Testament. It pursues its victim
+forever. After death, comes hell; after the grave, the worm that
+never dies. So that, as a matter of fact, the New Testament is
+infinitely more cruel than the Old.</p>
+<p>Nothing has so tended to harden the human heart as the doctrine
+of eternal punishment, and that passage: "He that believeth and is
+baptized shall be "saved, and he that believeth not shall be
+damned," has shed more blood than all the other so-called "sacred
+books" of all this world.</p>
+<p>I insist that the Bible is cruel. The Bible invented instruments
+of torture. The Bible laid the foundations of the Inquisition. The
+Bible furnished the fagots and the martyrs. The Bible forged chains
+not only for the hands, but for the brains of men. The Bible was at
+the bottom of the massacre of St. Bartholomew. Every man who has
+been persecuted for religion's sake has been persecuted by the
+Bible. That sacred book has been a beast of prey.</p>
+<p>The truth is, Christians have been good in spite of the Bible.
+The Bible has lived upon the reputations of good men and good
+women,&mdash;men and women who were good notwithstanding the
+brutality they found</p>
+<center>189</center>
+<p>upon the inspired page. Men have said: "My mother "believed in
+the Bible; my mother was good; there"fore, the Bible is good," when
+probably the mother never read a chapter in it.</p>
+<p>The Bible produced the Church of Rome, and Torquemada was a
+product of the Bible. Philip of Spain and the Duke of Alva were
+produced by the Bible. For thirty years Europe was one vast
+battlefield, and the war was produced by the Bible. The revocation
+of the Edict of Nantes was produced by the sacred Scriptures. The
+instruments of torture&mdash;the pincers, the thumb-screws, the
+racks, were produced by the word of God. The Quakers of New England
+were whipped and burned by the Bible&mdash;their children were
+stolen by the Bible. The slave-ship had for its sails the leaves of
+the Bible. Slavery was upheld in the United States by the Bible.
+The Bible was the auction-block. More than this, worse than this,
+infinitely beyond the computation of imagination, the despotisms of
+the old world all rested and still rest upon the Bible. "The powers
+that be" were supposed to have been "ordained of God;" and he who
+rose against his king periled his soul.</p>
+<p>In this connection, and in order to show the state of society
+when the church had entire control of civil</p>
+<center>190</center>
+<p>and ecclesiastical affairs, it may be well enough to read the
+following, taken from the <i>New York Sun</i> of March 21, 1882.
+From this little extract, it will be easy in the imagination to
+re-organize the government that then existed, and to see clearly
+the state of society at that time. This can be done upon the same
+principle that one scale tells of the entire fish, or one bone of
+the complete animal:</p>
+<p>"From records in the State archives of Hesse"Darmstadt, dating
+back to the thirteenth century, "it appears that the public
+executioner's fee for boiling "a criminal in oil was twenty-four
+florins; for decapi"tating with the sword, fifteen florins
+and-a-half; for "quartering, the same; for breaking on the wheel,
+"five florins, thirty kreuzers; for tearing a man to "pieces,
+eighteen florins. Ten florins per head was "his charge for hanging,
+and he burned delinquents "alive at the rate of fourteen florins
+apiece. For ap"plying the 'Spanish boot' his fee was only two
+"florins. Five florins were paid to him every time he "subjected a
+refractory witness to the torture of the "rack. The same amount was
+his due for 'branding "'the sign of the gallows with a red-hot iron
+upon "'the back, forehead, or cheek of a thief,' as well as "for
+'cutting off the nose and ears of a slanderer or</p>
+<center>191</center>
+<p>"'blasphemer.' Flogging with rods was a cheap "punishment, its
+remuneration being fixed at three "florins, thirty kreuzers."</p>
+<p>The Bible has made men cruel. It is a cruel book. And yet,
+amidst its thorns, amidst its thistles, amidst its nettles and its
+swords and pikes, there are some flowers, and these I wish, in
+common with all good men, to save.</p>
+<p>I do not believe that men have ever been made merciful in war by
+reading the Old Testament. I do not believe that men have ever been
+prompted to break the chain of a slave by reading the Pentateuch.
+The question is not whether Florence Nightingale and Miss Dix were
+cruel. I have said nothing about John Howard, nothing about Abbott
+Lawrence. I say nothing about people in this connection. The
+question is: Is the Bible a cruel book? not: Was Miss Nightingale a
+cruel woman? There have been thousands and thousands of loving,
+tender and charitable Mohammedans. Mohammedan mothers love their
+children as well as Christian mothers can. Mohammedans have died in
+defence of the Koran&mdash; died for the honor of an impostor.
+There were millions of charitable people in India&mdash;millions in
+Egypt&mdash;and I am not sure that the world has ever</p>
+<center>192</center>
+<p>produced people who loved one another better than the
+Egyptians.</p>
+<p>I think there are many things in the Old Testament calculated to
+make man cruel. Mr. Talmage asks: "What has been the effect upon
+your children? As "they have become more and more fond of the
+"Scriptures have they become more and more fond "of tearing off the
+wings of flies and pinning grass"hoppers and robbing birds'
+nests?"</p>
+<p>I do not believe that reading the bible would make them tender
+toward flies or grasshoppers. According to that book, God used to
+punish animals for the crimes of their owners. He drowned the
+animals in a flood. He visited cattle with disease. He bruised them
+to death with hailstones&mdash;killed them by the thousand. Will
+the reading of these things make children kind to animals? So, the
+whole system of sacrifices in the Old Testament is calculated to
+harden the heart. The butchery of oxen and lambs, the killing of
+doves, the perpetual destruction of life, the continual shedding of
+blood&mdash;these things, if they have any tendency, tend only to
+harden the heart of childhood.</p>
+<p>The Bible does not stop simply with the killing of animals. The
+Jews were commanded to kill their</p>
+<center>193</center>
+<p>neighbors&mdash;not only the men, but the women; not only the
+women, but the babes. In accordance with the command of God, the
+Jews killed not only their neighbors, but their own brothers; and
+according to this book, which is the foundation, as Mr. Talmage
+believes, of all mercy, men were commanded to kill their wives
+because they differed with them on the subject of religion.</p>
+<p>Nowhere in the world can be found laws more unjust and cruel
+than in the Old Testament.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage wants you to tell where the cruelty
+of the Bible crops out in the lives of Christians?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. In the first place, millions of Christians have
+been persecutors. Did they get the idea of persecution from the
+Bible? Will not every honest man admit that the early Christians,
+by reading the Old Testament, became convinced that it was not only
+their privilege, but their duty, to destroy heathen nations? Did
+they not, by reading the same book, come to the conclusion that it
+was their solemn duty to extirpate heresy and heretics? According
+to the New Testament, nobody could be saved unless he believed in
+the Lord Jesus Christ. The early Chris</p>
+<center>194</center>
+<p>tians believed this dogma. They also believed that they had a
+right to defend themselves and their children from "heretics."</p>
+<p>We all admit that a man has a right to defend his children
+against the assaults of a would-be murderer, and he has the right
+to carry this defence to the extent of killing the assailant. If we
+have the right to kill people who are simply trying to kill the
+bodies of our children, of course we have the right to kill them
+when they are endeavoring to assassinate, not simply their bodies,
+but their souls. It was in this way Christians reasoned. If the
+Testament is right, their reasoning was correct. Whoever believes
+the New Testament literally&mdash;whoever is satisfied that it is
+absolutely the word of God, will become a persecutor. All religious
+persecution has been, and is, in exact harmony with the teachings
+of the Old and New Testaments. Of course I mean with some of the
+teachings. I admit that there are passages in both the Old and New
+Testaments against persecution. These are passages quoted only in
+time of peace. Others are repeated to feed the flames of war.</p>
+<p>I find, too, that reading the Bible and believing the Bible do
+not prevent even ministers from telling false</p>
+<center>195</center>
+<p>hoods about their opponents. I find that the Rev. Mr. Talmage is
+willing even to slander the dead,&mdash; that he is willing to
+stain the memory of a Christian, and that he does not hesitate to
+give circulation to what he knows to be untrue. Mr. Talmage has
+himself, I believe, been the subject of a church trial. How many of
+the Christian witnesses against him, in his judgment, told the
+truth? Yet they were all Bible readers and Bible believers. What
+effect, in his judgment, did the reading of the Bible have upon his
+enemies? Is he willing to admit that the testimony of a Bible,
+reader and believer is true? Is he willing to accept the testimony
+even of ministers? &mdash;of his brother ministers? Did reading the
+Bible make them bad people? Was it a belief in the Bible that
+colored their testimony? Or, was it a belief in the Bible that made
+Mr. Talmage deny the truth of their statements?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage charges you with having said that
+the Scriptures are a collection of polluted writings?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I have never said such a thing. I have said, and
+I still say, that there are passages in the Bible unfit to be
+read&mdash;passages that never should</p>
+<center>196</center>
+<p>have been written&mdash;passages, whether inspired or
+uninspired, that can by no possibility do any human being any good.
+I have always admitted that there are good passages in the
+Bible&mdash;many good, wise and just laws&mdash;many things
+calculated to make men better&mdash;many things calculated to make
+men worse. I admit that the Bible is a mixture of good and bad, of
+truth and falsehood, of history and fiction, of sense and nonsense,
+of virtue and vice, of aspiration and revenge, of liberty and
+tyranny.</p>
+<p>I have never said anything against Solomon's Song. I like it
+better than I do any book that precedes it, because it touches upon
+the human. In the desert of murder, wars of extermination,
+polygamy, concubinage and slavery, it is an oasis where the trees
+grow, where the birds sing, and where human love blossoms and fills
+the air with perfume. I do not regard that book as obscene. There
+are many things in it that are beautiful and tender, and it is
+calculated to do good rather than harm.</p>
+<p>Neither have I any objection to the book of
+Ecclesiastes&mdash;except a few interpolations in it. That book was
+written by a Freethinker, by a philosopher. There is not the
+slightest mention of God in it, nor of another state of existence.
+All portions in which</p>
+<center>197</center>
+<p>God is mentioned are interpolations. With some of this book I
+agree heartily. I believe in the doctrine of enjoying yourself, if
+you can, to-day. I think it foolish to spend all your years in
+heaping up treasures, not knowing but he who will spend them is to
+be an idiot. I believe it is far better to be happy with your wife
+and child now, than to be miserable here, with angelic expectations
+in some other world.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage is mistaken when he supposes that all Bible
+believers have good homes, that all Bible readers are kind in their
+families. As a matter of fact, nearly all the wife-whippers of the
+United States are orthodox. Nine-tenths of the people in the
+penitentiaries are believers. Scotland is one of the most orthodox
+countries in the world, and one of the most intemperate. Hundreds
+and hundreds of women are arrested every year in Glasgow for
+drunkenness. Visit the Christian homes in the manufacturing
+districts of England. Talk with the beaters of children and
+whippers of wives, and you will find them believers. Go into what
+is known as the "Black "Country," and you will have an idea of the
+Christian civilization of England.</p>
+<p>Let me tell you something about the "Black "Country." There
+women work in iron; there women</p>
+<center>198</center>
+<p>do the work of men. Let me give you an instance: A commission
+was appointed by Parliament to examine into the condition of the
+women in the "Black "Country," and a report was made. In that
+report I read the following:</p>
+<p>"A superintendent of a brickyard where women "were engaged in
+carrying bricks from the yard to "the kiln, said to one of the
+women:</p>
+<p>"'Eliza, you don't appear to be very uppish this "morning.'"</p>
+<p>"'Neither would you be very uppish, sir,' she re"plied, 'if you
+had had a child last night.'"</p>
+<p>This gives you an idea of the Christian civilization of
+England.</p>
+<p>England and Ireland produce most of the prizefighters. The
+scientific burglar is a product of Great Britain. There is not the
+great difference that Mr. Talmage supposes, between the morality of
+Pekin and of New York. I doubt if there is a city in the world with
+more crime according to the population than New York, unless it be
+London, or it may be Dublin, or Brooklyn, or possibly Glasgow,
+where a man too pious to read a newspaper published on Sunday,
+stole millions from the poor.</p>
+<p>I do not believe there is a country in the world</p>
+<center>199</center>
+<p>where there is more robbery than in Christian lands&mdash; no
+country where more cashiers are defaulters, where more presidents
+of banks take the money of depositors, where there is more
+adulteration of food, where fewer ounces make a pound, where fewer
+inches make a yard, where there is more breach of trust, more
+respectable larceny under the name of embezzlement, or more slander
+circulated as gospel.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage insists that there are no
+contradictions in the Bible&mdash;that it is a perfect harmony from
+Genesis to Revelation&mdash;a harmony as perfect as any piece of
+music ever written by Beethoven or Handel?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course, if God wrote it, the Bible ought to be
+perfect. I do not see why a minister should be so perfectly
+astonished to find that an inspired book is consistent with itself
+throughout. Yet the truth is, the Bible is infinitely
+inconsistent.</p>
+<p>Compare the two systems&mdash;the system of Jehovah and that of
+Jesus. In the Old Testament the doctrine of "an eye for an eye and
+a tooth for a tooth" was taught. In the New Testament, "forgive
+your "enemies," and "pray for those who despitefully "use you and
+persecute you." In the Old Testament</p>
+<center>200</center>
+<p>it is kill, burn, massacre, destroy; in the New forgive. The two
+systems are inconsistent, and one is just about as far wrong as the
+other. To live for and thirst for revenge, to gloat over the agony
+of an enemy, is one extreme; to "resist not evil" is the other
+extreme; and both these extremes are equally distant from the
+golden mean of justice.</p>
+<p>The four gospels do not even agree as to the terms of salvation.
+And yet, Mr. Talmage tells us that there are four cardinal
+doctrines taught in the Bible&mdash; the goodness of God, the fall
+of man, the sympathetic and forgiving nature of the Savior, and two
+destinies&mdash;one for believers and the other for unbelievers.
+That is to say:</p>
+<p>1. That God is good, holy and forgiving.</p>
+<p>2. That man is a lost sinner.</p>
+<p>3. That Christ is "all sympathetic," and ready to take the whole
+world to his heart.</p>
+<p>4. Heaven for believers and hell for unbelievers.</p>
+<p><i>First</i>. I admit that the Bible says that God is</p>
+<p>good and holy. But this Bible also tells what God did, and if
+God did what the Bible says he did, then I insist that God is not
+good, and that he is not holy, or forgiving. According to the
+Bible, this good God believed in religious persecution; this
+good</p>
+<center>201</center>
+<p>God believed in extermination, in polygamy, in concubinage, in
+human slavery; this good God commanded murder and massacre, and
+this good God could only be mollified by the shedding of blood.
+This good God wanted a butcher for a priest. This good God wanted
+husbands to kill their wives&mdash; wanted fathers and mothers to
+kill their children. This good God persecuted animals on account of
+the crimes of their owners. This good God killed the common people
+because the king had displeased him. This good God killed the babe
+even of the maid behind the mill, in order that he might get even
+with a king. This good God committed every possible crime.</p>
+<p><i>Second</i>. The statement that man is a lost sinner is not
+true. There are thousands and thousands of magnificent
+Pagans&mdash;men ready to die for wife, or child, or even for
+friend, and the history of Pagan countries is filled with
+self-denying and heroic acts. If man is a failure, the infinite
+God, if there be one, is to blame. Is it possible that the God of
+Mr. Talmage could not have made man a success? According to the
+Bible, his God made man knowing that in about fifteen hundred years
+he would have to drown all his descendants.</p>
+<center>202</center>
+<p>Why would a good God create a man that he knew would be a sinner
+all his life, make hundreds of thousands of his fellow-men unhappy,
+and who at last would be doomed to an eternity of suffering? Can
+such a God be good? How could a devil have done worse?</p>
+<p><i>Third.</i> If God is infinitely good, is he not fully as
+sympathetic as Christ? Do you have to employ Christ to mollify a
+being of infinite mercy? Is Christ any more willing to take to his
+heart the whole world than his Father is? Personally, I have not
+the slightest objection in the world to anybody believing in an
+infinitely good and kind God&mdash;not the slightest objection to
+any human being worshiping an infinitely tender and merciful
+Christ&mdash;not the slightest objection to people preaching about
+heaven, or about the glories of the future state&mdash;not the
+slightest.</p>
+<p><i>Fourth</i>. I object to the doctrine of two destinies for the
+human race. I object to the infamous falsehood of eternal fire. And
+yet, Mr. Talmage is endeavoring to poison the imagination of men,
+women and children with the doctrine of an eternal hell. Here is
+what he preaches, taken from the "Constitu"tion of the Presbyterian
+Church of the United "States:"</p>
+<center>203</center>
+<p>"By the decrees of God, for the manifestation of "his glory,
+some men and angels are predestinated "to everlasting life, and
+others foreordained to ever"lasting death."</p>
+<p>That is the doctrine of Mr. Talmage. He worships a God who damns
+people "for the manifesta"tion of his glory,"&mdash;a God who made
+men, knowing that they would be damned&mdash;a God who damns babes
+simply to increase his reputation with the angels. This is the God
+of Mr. Talmage. Such a God I abhor, despise and execrate.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What does Mr. Talmage think of mankind? What is
+his opinion of the "unconverted"? How does he regard the great and
+glorious of the earth, who have not been the victims of his
+particular superstition? What does he think of some of the best the
+earth has produced?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I will tell you how he looks upon all such. Read
+this from his "Confession of Faith:"</p>
+<p>"Our first parents, being seduced by the subtlety "of the
+tempter, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. "By this sin, they
+fell from their original righteous"ness and communion with God, and
+so became "dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties</p>
+<center>204</center>
+<p>"and parts of soul and body; and they being the "root of all
+mankind, the guilt of this sin was "imputed, and the same death in
+sin and corrupted "nature conveyed to all their posterity. From
+this "original corruption&mdash;whereby we are utterly indis"posed,
+disabled, and made opposite to all good, "and wholly inclined to
+all evil, do proceed all actual "transgressions."</p>
+<p>This is Mr. Talmage's view of humanity.</p>
+<p>Why did his God make a devil? Why did he allow the devil to
+tempt Adam and Eve? Why did he leave innocence and ignorance at the
+mercy of subtlety and wickedness? Why did he put "the "tree of the
+knowledge of good and evil" in the garden? For what reason did he
+place temptation in the way of his children? Was it kind, was it
+just, was it noble, was it worthy of a good God? No wonder Christ
+put into his prayer: "Lead us not "into temptation."</p>
+<p>At the time God told Adam and Eve not to eat, why did he not
+tell them of the existence of Satan? Why were they not put upon
+their guard against the serpent? Why did not God make his
+appearance just before the sin, instead of just after. Why did he
+not play the role of a Savior instead of that of a</p>
+<center>205</center>
+<p>detective? After he found that Adam and Eve had
+sinned&mdash;knowing as he did that they were then totally
+corrupt&mdash;knowing that all their children would be corrupt,
+knowing that in fifteen hundred years he would have to drown
+millions of them, why did he not allow Adam and Eve to perish in
+accordance with natural law, then kill the devil, and make a new
+pair?</p>
+<p>When the flood came, why did he not drown all? Why did he save
+for seed that which was "perfectly "and thoroughly corrupt in all
+its parts and facul"ties"? If God had drowned Noah and his sons and
+their families, he could have then made a new pair, and peopled the
+world with men not "wholly "defiled in all their faculties and
+parts of soul and "body."</p>
+<p>Jehovah learned nothing by experience. He persisted in his
+original mistake. What would we think of a man who finding that a
+field of wheat was worthless, and that such wheat never could be
+raised with profit, should burn all of the field with the exception
+of a few sheaves, which he saved for seed? Why save such seed? Why
+should God have preserved Noah, knowing that he was totally
+corrupt, and that he would again fill the world with infamous</p>
+<center>206</center>
+<p>people&mdash;people incapable of a good action? He must have
+known at that time, that by preserving Noah, the Canaanites would
+be produced, that these same Canaanites would have to be murdered,
+that the babes in the cradles would have to be strangled. Why did
+he produce them? He knew at that time, that Egypt would result from
+the salvation of Noah, that the Egyptians would have to be nearly
+destroyed, that he would have to kill their first-born, that he
+would have to visit even their cattle with disease and hailstones.
+He knew also that the Egyptians would oppress his chosen people for
+two hundred and fifteen years, that they would upon the back of
+toil inflict the lash. Why did he preserve Noah? He should have
+drowned all, and started with a new pair. He should have warned
+them against the devil, and he might have succeeded, in that way,
+in covering the world with gentlemen and ladies, with real men and
+real women.</p>
+<p>We know that most of the people now in the world are not
+Christians. Most who have heard the gospel of Christ have rejected
+it, and the Presbyterian Church tells us what is to become of all
+these people. This is the "glad tidings of great joy." Let us
+see:</p>
+<center>207</center>
+<p>"All mankind, by their fall, lost communion with "God, are under
+his wrath and curse, and so made "liable to all the miseries of
+this life, to death itself, "and to the pains of hell forever."</p>
+<p>According to this good Presbyterian doctrine, all that we suffer
+in this world, is the result of Adam's fall. The babes of to-day
+suffer for the crime of the first parents. Not only so; but God is
+angry at us for what Adam did. We are under the wrath of an
+infinite God, whose brows are corrugated with eternal hatred.</p>
+<p>Why should God hate us for being what we are and necessarily
+must have been? A being that God made&mdash;the devil&mdash;for
+whose work God is responsible, according to the Bible wrought this
+woe. God of his own free will must have made the devil. What did he
+make him for? Was it necessary to have a devil in heaven? God,
+having infinite power, can of course destroy this devil to-day. Why
+does he permit him to live? Why did he allow him to thwart his
+plans? Why did he permit him to pollute the innocence of Eden? Why
+does he allow him now to wrest souls by the million from the
+redeeming hand of Christ?</p>
+<p>According to the Scriptures, the devil has always</p>
+<center>208</center>
+<p>been successful. He enjoys himself. He is called "the prince of
+the power of the air." He has no conscientious scruples. He has
+miraculous power. All miraculous power must come of God, otherwise
+it is simply in accordance with nature. If the devil can work a
+miracle, it is only with the consent and by the assistance of the
+Almighty. Is the God of Mr. Talmage in partnership with the devil?
+Do they divide profits?</p>
+<p>We are also told by the Presbyterian Church&mdash; I quote from
+their Confession of Faith&mdash;that "there "is no sin so small but
+it deserves damnation.'' Yet Mr. Talmage tells us that God is good,
+that he is filled with mercy and loving-kindness. A child nine or
+ten years of age commits a sin, and thereupon it deserves eternal
+damnation. That is what Mr. Talmage calls, not simply justice, but
+mercy; and the sympathetic heart of Christ is not touched. The same
+being who said: "Suffer little children to come unto me," tells us
+that a child, for the smallest sin, deserves to be eternally
+damned. The Presbyterian Church tells us that infants, as well as
+adults, in order to be saved, need redemption by the blood of
+Christ, and regeneration by the Holy Ghost.</p>
+<p>I am charged with trying to take the consolation</p>
+<center>209</center>
+<p>of this doctrine from the world. I am a criminal because I am
+endeavoring to convince the mother that her child does not deserve
+eternal punishment. I stand by the graves of those who "died in
+their "sins," by the tombs of the "unregenerate," over the ashes of
+men who have spent their lives working for their wives and
+children, and over the sacred dust of soldiers who died in defence
+of flag and country, and I say to their friends&mdash;I say to the
+living who loved them, I say to the men and women for whom they
+worked, I say to the children whom they educated, I say to the
+country for which they died: These fathers, these mothers, these
+wives, these husbands, these soldiers are not in hell.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage insists that the Bible is
+scientific, and that the real scientific man sees no contradiction
+between revelation and science; that, on the contrary, they are in
+harmony. What is your understanding of this matter?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I do not believe the Bible to be a scientific
+book. In fact, most of the ministers now admit that it was not
+written to teach any science. They admit that the first chapter of
+Genesis is not geologically true. They admit that Joshua knew
+nothing</p>
+<center>210</center>
+<p>of science. They admit that four-footed birds did not exist in
+the days of Moses. In fact, the only way they can avoid the
+unscientific statements of the Bible, is to assert that the writers
+simply used the common language of their day, and used it, not with
+the intention of teaching any scientific truth, but for the purpose
+of teaching some moral truth. As a matter of fact, we find that
+moral truths have been taught in all parts of this world. They were
+taught in India long before Moses lived; in Egypt long before
+Abraham was born; in China thousands of years before the flood.
+They were taught by hundreds and thousands and millions before the
+Garden of Eden was planted.</p>
+<p>It would be impossible to prove the truth of a revelation simply
+because it contained moral truths. If it taught immorality, it
+would be absolutely certain that it was not a revelation from an
+infinitely good being. If it taught morality, it would be no reason
+for even suspecting that it had a divine origin. But if the Bible
+had given us scientific truths; if the ignorant Jews had given us
+the true theory of our solar system; if from Moses we had learned
+the nature of light and heat; if from Joshua we had learned
+something of electricity; if the minor pro</p>
+<center>211</center>
+<p>phets had given us the distances to other planets; if the orbits
+of the stars had been marked by the barbarians of that day, we
+might have admitted that they must have been inspired. If they had
+said anything in advance of their day; if they had plucked from the
+night of ignorance one star of truth, we might have admitted the
+claim of inspiration; but the Scriptures did not rise above their
+source, did not rise above their ignorant authors&mdash;above the
+people who believed in wars of extermination, in polygamy, in
+concubinage, in slavery, and who taught these things in their
+"sacred Scriptures."</p>
+<p>The greatest men in the scientific world have not been, and are
+not, believers in the inspiration of the Scriptures. There has been
+no greater astronomer than Laplace. There is no greater name than
+Humboldt. There is no living scientist who stands higher than
+Charles Darwin. All the professors in all the religious colleges in
+this country rolled into one, would not equal Charles Darwin. All
+the cowardly apologists for the cosmogony of Moses do not amount to
+as much in the world of thought as Ernst Haeckel. There is no
+orthodox scientist the equal of Tyndall or Huxley. There is not one
+in this country the equal of John Fiske. I insist, that the</p>
+<center>212</center>
+<p>foremost men to-day in the scientific world reject the dogma of
+inspiration. They reject the science of the Bible, and hold in
+utter contempt the astronomy of Joshua, and the geology of
+Moses.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage tells us "that Science is a boy and "Revelation is a
+man." Of course, like the most he says, it is substantially the
+other way. Revelation, so-called, was the boy. Religion was the
+lullaby of the cradle, the ghost-story told by the old woman,
+Superstition. Science is the man. Science asks for demonstration.
+Science impels us to investigation, and to verify everything for
+ourselves. Most professors of American colleges, if they were not
+afraid of losing their places, if they did not know that Christians
+were bad enough now to take the bread from their mouths, would tell
+their students that the Bible is not a scientific book.</p>
+<p>I admit that I have said:</p>
+<p>1. That the Bible is cruel.</p>
+<p>2. That in many passages it is impure.</p>
+<p>3. That it is contradictory.</p>
+<p>4. That it is unscientific.</p>
+<p>Let me now prove these propositions one by one.</p>
+<p>First. The Bible is cruel.</p>
+<p>I have opened it at random, and the very first</p>
+<center>213</center>
+<p>chapter that has struck my eye is the sixth of First Samuel. In
+the nineteenth verse of that chapter, I find the following:</p>
+<p>"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because "they had looked
+into the ark of the Lord; even he "smote of the people fifty
+thousand and three-score "and ten men."</p>
+<p>All this slaughter was because some people had looked into a box
+that was carried upon a cart. Was that cruel?</p>
+<p>I find, also, in the twenty-fourth chapter of Second Samuel,
+that David was moved by God to number Israel and Judah. God put it
+into his heart to take a census of his people, and thereupon David
+said to Joab, the captain of his host:</p>
+<p>"Go now through all the tribes of Israel, from "Dan even to
+Beersheba, and number ye the people, "that I may know the number of
+the people."</p>
+<p>At the end of nine months and twenty days, Joab gave the number
+of the people to the king, and there were at that time, according
+to that census, "eight hundred thousand valiant men that drew the
+"sword," in Israel, and in Judah, "five hundred "thousand men,"
+making a total of thirteen hundred thousand men of war. The moment
+this census was</p>
+<center>214</center>
+<p>taken, the wrath of the Lord waxed hot against David, and
+thereupon he sent a seer, by the name of Gad, to David, and asked
+him to choose whether he would have seven years of famine, or fly
+three months before his enemies, or have three days of pestilence.
+David concluded that as God was so merciful as to give him a
+choice, he would be more merciful than man, and he chose the
+pestilence.</p>
+<p>Now, it must be remembered that the sin of taking the census had
+not been committed by the people, but by David himself, inspired by
+God, yet the people were to be punished for David's sin. So,, when
+David chose the pestilence, God immediately killed "seventy
+thousand men, from Dan even to "Beersheba."</p>
+<p>"And when the angel stretched out his hand upon "Jerusalem to
+destroy it, the Lord repented him of "the evil, and said to the
+angel that destroyed the "people, It is enough; stay now thine
+hand."</p>
+<p>Was this cruel?</p>
+<p>Why did a God of infinite mercy destroy seventy thousand men?
+Why did he fill his land with widows and orphans, because King
+David had taken the census? If he wanted to kill anybody, why did
+he not kill David? I will tell you why. Because at that</p>
+<center>215</center>
+<p>time, the people were considered as the property of the king. He
+killed the people precisely as he killed the cattle. And yet, I am
+told that the Bible is not a cruel book.</p>
+<p>In the twenty-first chapter of Second Samuel, I find that there
+were three years of famine in the days of David, and that David
+inquired of the Lord the reason of the famine; and the Lord told
+him that it was because Saul had slain the Gibeonites. Why did not
+God punish Saul instead of the people? And David asked the
+Gibeonites how he should make atonement, and the Gibeonites replied
+that they wanted no silver nor gold, but they asked that seven of
+the sons of Saul might be delivered unto them, so that they could
+hang them before the Lord, in Gibeah. And David agreed to the
+proposition, and thereupon he delivered to the Gibeonites the two
+sons of Rizpah, Saul's concubine, and the five sons of Michal, the
+daughter of Saul, and the Gibeonites hanged all seven of them
+together. And Rizpah, more tender than them all, with a woman's
+heart of love kept lonely vigil by the dead, "from the beginning of
+har"vest until water dropped upon them out of heaven, "and suffered
+neither the birds of the air to rest upon "them by day, nor the
+beast of the field by night."</p>
+<center>216</center>
+<p>I want to know if the following, from the fifteenth chapter of
+First Samuel, is inspired:</p>
+<p>"Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I remember that "which Amalek did
+to Israel, how he laid wait for "him in the way when he came up
+from Egypt. Now "go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that
+"they have, and spare them not, but slay both man "and woman,
+infant and suckling, ox and sheep, "camel and ass."</p>
+<p>We must remember that those he was commanded to slay had done
+nothing to Israel. It was something done by their forefathers,
+hundreds of years before; and yet they are commanded to slay the
+women and children and even the animals, and to spare none.</p>
+<p>It seems that Saul only partially carried into execution this
+merciful command of Jehovah. He spared the life of the king. He
+"utterly destroyed all the "people with the edge of the sword," but
+he kept alive the best of the sheep and oxen and of the fatlings
+and lambs. Then God spake unto Samuel and told him that he was very
+sorry he had made Saul king, because he had not killed all the
+animals, and because he had spared Agag; and Samuel asked Saul:
+"What meaneth this bleating of sheep in mine "ears, and the lowing
+of the oxen which I hear?"</p>
+<center>217</center>
+<p>Are stories like this calculated to make soldiers merciful?</p>
+<p>So I read in the sixth chapter of Joshua, the fate of the city
+of Jericho: "And they utterly destroyed "all that was in the city,
+both man and woman, "young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass,
+with the "edge of the sword. And they burnt the city with "fire,
+and all that was therein." But we are told that one family was
+saved by Joshua, out of the general destruction: "And Joshua saved
+Rahab, the harlot, "alive, and her father's household, and all that
+she "had." Was this fearful destruction an act of mercy?</p>
+<p>It seems that they saved the money of their victims: "the silver
+and gold and the vessels of brass "and of iron they put into the
+treasury of the house "of the Lord."</p>
+<p>After all this pillage and carnage, it appears that there was a
+suspicion in Joshua's mind that somebody was keeping back a part of
+the treasure. Search was made, and a man by the name of Achan
+admitted that he had sinned against the Lord, that he had seen a
+Babylonish garment among the spoils, and two hundred shekels of
+silver and a wedge of gold of fifty shekels' weight, and that he
+took them and hid</p>
+<p>2l8</p>
+<p>them in his tent. For this atrocious crime it seems that the
+Lord denied any victories to the Jews until they found out the
+wicked criminal. When they discovered poor Achan, "they took him
+and his sons "and his daughters, and his oxen and his asses and
+"his sheep, and all that he had, and brought them unto "the valley
+of Achor; and all Israel stoned him with "stones and burned them
+with fire after they had "stoned them with stones."</p>
+<p>After Achan and his sons and his daughters and his herds had
+been stoned and burned to death, we are told that "the Lord turned
+from the fierceness of "his anger."</p>
+<p>And yet it is insisted that this God "is merciful, "and that his
+loving-kindness is over all his works." In the eighth chapter of
+this same book, the infinite God, "creator of heaven and earth and
+all that is "therein," told his general, Joshua, to lay an ambush
+for a city&mdash;to "lie in wait against the city, even be"hind the
+city; go not very far from the city, but be "ye all ready." He told
+him to make an attack and then to run, as though he had been
+beaten, in order that the inhabitants of the city might follow, and
+thereupon his reserves that he had ambushed might rush into the
+city and set it on fire. God Almighty</p>
+<center>219</center>
+<p>planned the battle. God himself laid the snare. The whole
+programme was carried out. Joshua made believe that he was beaten,
+and fled, and then the soldiers in ambush rose out of their places,
+entered the city, and set it on fire. Then came the slaughter. They
+"utterly destroyed all the inhabit"ants of Ai," men and maidens,
+women and babes, sparing only their king till evening, when they
+hanged him on a tree, then "took his carcase down "from the tree
+and cast it at the entering of the "gate, and raised thereon a
+great heap of stones "which remaineth unto this day." After having
+done all this, "Joshua built an altar unto the Lord "God of Israel,
+and offered burnt offerings unto the "Lord." I ask again, was this
+cruel?</p>
+<p>Again I ask, was the treatment of the Gibeonites cruel when they
+sought to make peace but were denied, and cursed instead; and
+although permitted to live, were yet made slaves? Read the mandate
+consigning them to bondage: "Now therefore ye "are cursed, and
+there shall none of you be freed "from being bondmen and hewers of
+wood and "drawers of water for the house of my God."</p>
+<p>Is it possible, as recorded in the tenth chapter of Joshua, that
+the Lord took part in these battles, and</p>
+<center>220</center>
+<p>cast down great hail-stones from the battlements of heaven upon
+the enemies of the Israelites, so that "they were more who died
+with hail-stones, than "they whom the children of Israel slew with
+the "sword"?</p>
+<p>Is it possible that a being of infinite power would exercise it
+in that way instead of in the interest of kindness and peace?</p>
+<p>I find, also, in this same chapter, that Joshua took Makkedah
+and smote it with the edge of the sword, that he utterly destroyed
+all the souls that were therein, that he allowed none to
+remain.</p>
+<p>I find that he fought against Libnah, and smote it with the edge
+of the sword, and utterly destroyed all the souls that were
+therein, and allowed none to remain, and did unto the king as he
+did unto the king of Jericho.</p>
+<p>I find that he also encamped against Lachish, and that God gave
+him that city, and that he "smote it "with the edge of the sword,
+and all the souls that "were therein," sparing neither old nor
+young, helpless women nor prattling babes.</p>
+<p>He also vanquished Horam, King of Gezer, "and "smote him and his
+people until he left him none "remaining."</p>
+<center>221</center>
+<p>He encamped against the city of Eglon, and killed every soul
+that was in it, at the edge of the sword, just as he had done to
+Lachish and all the others.</p>
+<p>He fought against Hebron, "and took it and "smote it with the
+edge of the sword, and the king "thereof,"&mdash;and it appears
+that several cities, their number not named, were included in this
+slaughter, for Hebron "and all the cities thereof and all the
+"souls that were therein," were utterly destroyed.</p>
+<p>He then waged war against Debir and took it, and more unnumbered
+cities with it, and all the souls that were therein shared the same
+horrible fate&mdash;he did not leave a soul alive.</p>
+<p>And this chapter of horrors concludes with this song of
+victory:</p>
+<p>"So Joshua smote all the country of the hills, and "of the
+south, and of the vale, and of the springs, "and all their kings:
+he left none remaining, but "utterly destroyed all that breathed,
+as the Lord "God of Israel commanded. And Joshua smote "them from
+Kadeshbarnea even unto Gaza, and all the "country of Goshen, even
+unto Gibeon. And all these "kings and their land did Joshua take at
+one time, "because the Lord God of Israel fought for Israel." Was
+God, at that time, merciful?</p>
+<center>222</center>
+<p>I find, also, in the twenty-first chapter that many Icings met,
+with their armies, for the purpose of overwhelming Israel, and the
+Lord said unto Joshua: "Be not afraid because of them, for
+to-morrow about "this time I will deliver them all slain before
+Israel. "I will hough their horses and burn their chariots "with
+fire." Were animals so treated by the command of a merciful
+God?</p>
+<p>Joshua captured Razor, and smote all the souls that were therein
+with the edge of the sword, there was not one left to breathe; and
+he took all the cities of all the kings that took up arms against
+him, and utterly destroyed all the inhabitants thereof. He took the
+cattle and spoils as prey unto himself, and smote every man with
+the edge of the sword; and not only so, but left not a human being
+to breathe.</p>
+<p>I find the following directions given to the Israelites who were
+waging a war of conquest. They are in the twentieth chapter of
+Deuteronomy, from the tenth to the eighteenth verses:</p>
+<p>"When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight "against it, then
+proclaim peace unto it. And it "shall be, if it make thee an answer
+of peace, and "open unto thee, then it shall be that all the
+people</p>
+<center>223</center>
+<p>"that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, "and they
+shall serve thee. And if it will make no "peace with thee, but will
+war against thee, then "thou shalt besiege it. And when the Lord
+thy "God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt "smite
+every male thereof with the edge of the "sword; but the women, and
+the little ones, and "the cattle, and all that is in the city, even
+the spoil "thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou "shalt
+eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the "Lord thy God hath given
+thee. Thus shalt thou "do unto all the cities which are very far
+off from "thee, which are not of the cities of these nations." It
+will be seen from this that people could take their choice between
+death and slavery, provided these people lived a good ways from the
+Israelites. Now, let us see how they were to treat the inhabitants
+of the cities near to them:</p>
+<p>"But of the cities of these people which the Lord "thy God doth
+give thee for an inheritance, thou "shalt save alive nothing that
+breatheth. But thou "shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the
+Hittites, "and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites,
+"the Hivites and the Jebusites, as the Lord thy God "hath commanded
+thee."</p>
+<center>224</center>
+<p>It never occurred to this merciful God to send missionaries to
+these people. He built them no schoolhouses, taught them no
+alphabet, gave them no book; they were not supplied even with a
+copy of the Ten Commandments. He did not say "Reform," but "Kill;"
+not "Educate," but "Destroy." He gave them no Bible, built them no
+church, sent them no preachers. He knew when he made them that he
+would have to have them murdered. When he created them he knew that
+they were not fit to live; and yet, this is the infinite God who is
+infinitely merciful and loves his children better than an earthly
+mother loves her babe.</p>
+<p>In order to find just how merciful God is, read the
+twenty-eighth chapter of Deuteronomy, and see what he promises to
+do with people who do not keep all of his commandments and all of
+his statutes. He curses them in their basket and store, in the
+fruit of their body, in the fruit of their land, in the increase of
+their cattle and sheep. He curses them in the city and in the
+field, in their coming in and their going out. He curses them with
+pestilence, with consumption, with fever, with inflammation, with
+extreme burning, with sword, with blasting, with mildew. He tells
+them that the heavens shall be as brass over their heads</p>
+<center>225</center>
+<p>and the earth as iron under their feet; that the rain shall be
+powder and dust and shall come down on them and destroy them; that
+they shall flee seven ways before their enemies; that their
+carcasses shall be meat for the fowls of the air, and the beasts of
+the earth; that he will smite them with the botch of Egypt, and
+with the scab, and with the itch, and with madness and blindness
+and astonishment; that he will make them grope at noonday; that
+they shall be oppressed and spoiled evermore; that one shall
+betroth a wife and another shall have her; that they shall build a
+house and not dwell in it; plant a vineyard and others shall eat
+the grapes; that their sons and daughters shall be given to their
+enemies; that he will make them mad for the sight of their eyes;
+that he will smite them in the knees and in the legs with a sore
+botch that cannot be healed, and from the sole of the foot to the
+top of the head; that they shall be a by-word among all nations;
+that they shall sow much seed and gather but little; that the
+locusts shall consume their crops; that they shall plant vineyards
+and drink no wine,&mdash;that they shall gather grapes, but worms
+shall eat them; that they shall raise olives but have no oil; beget
+sons and daughters, but they shall go into captivity; that all</p>
+<center>226</center>
+<p>the trees and fruit of the land shall be devoured by locusts,
+and that all these curses shall pursue them and overtake them,
+until they be destroyed; that they shall be slaves to their
+enemies, and be constantly in hunger and thirst and nakedness, and
+in want of all things. And as though this were not enough, the Lord
+tells them that he will bring a nation against them swift as
+eagles, a nation fierce and savage, that will show no mercy and no
+favor to old or young, and leave them neither corn, nor wine, nor
+oil, nor flocks, nor herds; and this nation shall besiege them in
+their cities until they are reduced to the necessity of eating the
+flesh of their own sons and daughters; so that the men would eat
+their wives and their children, and women eat their husbands and
+their own sons and daughters, and their own babes.</p>
+<p>All these curses God pronounced upon them if they did not
+observe to do all the words of the law that were written in his
+book.</p>
+<p>This same merciful God threatened that he would bring upon them
+all the diseases of Egypt&mdash;every sickness and every plague;
+that he would scatter them from one end of the earth to the other;
+that they should find no rest; that their lives should hang in
+perpetual doubt; that in the morning they would</p>
+<center>227</center>
+<p>say: Would God it were evening! and in the evening, Would God it
+were morning! and that he would finally take them back to Egypt
+where they should be again sold for bondmen and bondwomen.</p>
+<p>This curse, the foundation of the <i>Anathema maranatha</i>;
+this curse, used by the pope of Rome to prevent the spread of
+thought; this curse used even by the Protestant Church; this curse
+born of barbarism and of infinite cruelty, is now said to have
+issued from the lips of an infinitely merciful God. One would
+suppose that Jehovah had gone insane; that he had divided his
+kingdom like Lear, and from the darkness of insanity had launched
+his curses upon a world.</p>
+<p>In order that there may be no doubt as to the mercy of Jehovah,
+read the thirteenth chapter of Deuteronomy:</p>
+<p>"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy "son, or thy
+daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or "thy friend, which is as
+thine own soul, entice thee "secretly, saying, Let us go and serve
+other gods, "which thou hast not known, thou nor thy fathers; " * *
+* thou shalt not consent unto him, nor "hearken unto him; neither
+shall thine eyes pity him, "neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt
+thou conceal</p>
+<center>228</center>
+<p>"him; but thou shalt surely kill him: thine hand "shall be first
+upon him to put him to death, and "afterwards the hand of all the
+people; and thou "shalt stone him with stones that he die, because
+he "hath sought to entice thee away from the Lord thy "God."</p>
+<p>This, according to Mr. Talmage, is a commandment of the infinite
+God. According to him, God ordered a man to murder his own son, his
+own wife, his own brother, his own daughter, if they dared even to
+suggest the worship of some other God than Jehovah. For my part, it
+is impossible not to despise such a God&mdash;a God not willing
+that one should worship what he must. No one can control his
+admiration, and if a savage at sunrise falls upon his knees and
+offers homage to the great light of the East, he cannot help it. If
+he worships the moon, he cannot help it. If he worships fire, it is
+because he cannot control his own spirit. A picture is beautiful to
+me in spite of myself. A statue compels the applause of my brain.
+The worship of the sun was an exceedingly natural religion, and why
+should a man or woman be destroyed for kneeling at the fireside of
+the world?</p>
+<p>No wonder that this same God, in the very next chapter of
+Deuteronomy to that quoted, says to his</p>
+<center>229</center>
+<p>chosen people: "Ye shall not eat of anything that "dieth of
+itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger "that is within thy
+gates, that he may eat it; or thou "mayest sell it unto an alien:
+for thou art a holy "people unto the Lord thy God."</p>
+<p>What a mingling of heartlessness and thrift&mdash;the religion
+of sword and trade!</p>
+<p>In the seventh chapter of Deuteronomy, Jehovah gives his own
+character. He tells the Israelites that there are seven nations
+greater and mightier than themselves, but that he will deliver them
+to his chosen people, and that they shall smite them and utterly
+destroy them; and having some fear that a drop of pity might remain
+in the Jewish heart, he says:</p>
+<p>"Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor "show mercy unto
+them. * * * Know therefore "that the Lord thy God, he is God, the
+faithful God, "which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that
+"love him and keep his commandments to a thousand "generations, and
+repayeth them that hate him to "their face, to destroy them: he
+will not be slack to "him that hateth him, he will repay him to his
+face." This is the description which the merciful, long-suffering
+Jehovah gives of himself.</p>
+<p>So, he promises great prosperity to the Jews if</p>
+<center>230</center>
+<p>they will only obey his commandments, and says: "And the Lord
+will take away from thee all sickness, "and will put none of the
+evil diseases of Egypt "upon thee, but will lay them upon all them
+that "hate thee. And thou shalt consume all the people "which the
+Lord thy God shall deliver thee; thine "eye shall have no pity upon
+them."</p>
+<p>Under the immediate government of Jehovah, mercy was a crime.
+According to the law of God, pity was weakness, tenderness was
+treason, kindness was blasphemy, while hatred and massacre were
+virtues.</p>
+<p>In the second chapter of Deuteronomy we find another account
+tending to prove that Jehovah is a merciful God. We find that
+Sihon, king of Heshbon, would not let the Hebrews pass by him, and
+the reason given is, that "the Lord God hardened his "spirit and
+made his heart obstinate, that he might "deliver him into the hand"
+of the Hebrews. Sihon, his heart having been hardened by God, came
+out against the chosen people, and God delivered him to them, and
+"they smote him, and his sons, and all his "people, and took all
+his cities, and utterly destroyed "the men and the women, and the
+little ones of "every city: they left none to remain." And in
+this</p>
+<center>231</center>
+<p>same chapter this same God promises that the dread and fear of
+his chosen people should be "upon all the "nations that are under
+the whole heaven," and that "they should "tremble and be in anguish
+because of" the Hebrews.</p>
+<p>Read the thirty-first chapter of Numbers, and see how the
+Midianites were slain. You will find that "the children of Israel
+took all the women of Midian "captives, and their little ones,"
+that they took "all "their cattle, and all their flocks, and all
+their goods," that they slew all the males, and burnt all their
+cities and castles with fire, that they brought the captives and
+the prey and the spoil unto Moses and Eleazar the priest; that
+Moses was wroth with the officers of his host because they had
+saved all the women alive, and thereupon this order was given:
+"Kill "every male among the little ones, and kill every "woman, * *
+* but all the women children "keep alive for yourselves."</p>
+<p>After this, God himself spake unto Moses, and said: "Take the
+sum of the prey that was taken, "both of man and of beast, thou and
+Eleazar the "priest * * * and divide the prey into two "parts,
+between those who went to war, and between "all the congregation,
+and levy a tribute unto the</p>
+<center>232</center>
+<p>"Lord, one soul of five hundred of the persons, "and the cattle;
+take it of their half and give it to "the priest for an offering *
+* * and of the "children of Israel's half, take one portion of
+fifty of "the persons and the animals and give them unto "the
+Levites. * * * And Moses and the priest "did as the Lord had
+commanded." It seems that they had taken six hundred and
+seventy-five thousand sheep, seventy-two thousand beeves, sixty-one
+thousand asses, and thirty-two thousand women children and maidens.
+And it seems, by the fortieth verse, <i>that the Lord's tribute of
+the maidens was thirtytwo</i>,&mdash;the rest were given to the
+soldiers and to the congregation of the Lord.</p>
+<p>Was anything more infamous ever recorded in the annals of
+barbarism? And yet we are told that the Bible is an inspired book,
+that it is not a cruel book, and that Jehovah is a being of
+infinite mercy.</p>
+<p>In the twenty-fifth chapter of Numbers we find that the
+Israelites had joined themselves unto BaalPeor, and thereupon the
+anger of the Lord was kindled against them, as usual. No being ever
+lost his temper more frequently than this Jehovah. Upon this
+particular occasion, "the Lord said unto Moses, "Take all the heads
+of the people, and hang them</p>
+<center>233</center>
+<p>"up before the Lord against the sun, that the fierce "anger of
+the Lord may be turned away from Israel." And thereupon "Moses said
+unto the judges of Israel, "Slay ye every one his men that were
+joined unto "Baal-peor."</p>
+<p>Just as soon as these people were killed, and their heads hung
+up before the Lord against the sun, and a horrible double murder of
+a too merciful Israelite and a Midianitish woman, had been
+committed by Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, "the plague was stayed
+"from the children of Israel." Twenty-four thousand had died.
+Thereupon, "the Lord spake unto Moses "and said"&mdash;and it is a
+very merciful commandment &mdash;"Vex the Midianites and smite
+them."</p>
+<p>In the twenty-first chapter of Numbers is more evidence that God
+is merciful and compassionate.</p>
+<p>The children of Israel had become discouraged. They had wandered
+so long in the desert that they finally cried out: "Wherefore have
+ye brought us "up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? There "is
+no bread, there is no water, and our soul loatheth "this light
+bread." Of course they were hungry and thirsty. Who would not
+complain under similar circumstances? And yet, on account of this
+complaint, the God of infinite tenderness and compassion sent</p>
+<center>234</center>
+<p>serpents among them, and these serpents bit them&mdash; bit the
+cheeks of children, the breasts of maidens, and the withered faces
+of age. Why would a God do such an infamous thing? Why did he not,
+as the leader of this people, his chosen children, feed them
+better? Certainly an infinite God had the power to satisfy their
+hunger and to quench their thirst. He who overwhelmed a world with
+water, certainly could have made a few brooks, cool and babbling,
+to follow his chosen people through all their journeying. He could
+have supplied them with miraculous food.</p>
+<p>How fortunate for the Jews that Jehovah was not revengeful, that
+he was so slow to anger, so patient, so easily pleased. What would
+they have done had he been exacting, easily incensed, revengeful,
+cruel, or blood-thirsty?</p>
+<p>In the sixteenth chapter of Numbers, an account is given of a
+rebellion. It seems that Korah, Dathan and Abiram got tired of
+Moses and Aaron. They thought the priests were taking a little too
+much upon themselves. So Moses told them to have two hundred and
+fifty of their men bring their censers and put incense in them
+before the Lord, and stand in the door of the tabernacle of the
+congregation</p>
+<center>235</center>
+<p>with Moses and Aaron. That being done, the Lord appeared, and
+told Moses and Aaron to separate themselves from the people, that
+he might consume them all in a moment. Moses and Aaron, having a
+little compassion, begged God not to kill everybody. The people
+were then divided, and Dathan and Abiram came out and stood in the
+door of their tents with their wives and their sons and their
+little children. And Moses said:</p>
+<p>"Hereby ye shall know that the Lord hath sent "me to do all
+these works; for I have not done them "of my mine own mind. If
+these men die the "common death of all men, or if they be visited
+"after the common visitation of all men, then the "Lord hath not
+sent me. But if the Lord make a "new thing, and the earth open her
+mouth and "swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, "and
+they go down quick into the pit, then ye shall "understand that
+these men have provoked the "Lord." The moment he ceased speaking,
+"the "ground clave asunder that was under them; and "the earth
+opened her mouth and swallowed them up, "and their houses, and all
+the men that appertained "unto Korah, and all their goods. They,
+and all that "appertained to them went down alive into the pit,</p>
+<center>236</center>
+<p>"and the earth closed upon them, and they perished "from among
+the congregation."</p>
+<p>This, according to Mr. Talmage, was the act of an exceedingly
+merciful God, prompted by infinite kindness, and moved by eternal
+pity. What would he have done had he acted from motives of revenge?
+What would he Jiave done had he been remorselessly cruel and
+wicked?</p>
+<p>In addition to those swallowed by the earth, the two hundred and
+fifty men that offered the incense were consumed by "a fire that
+came out from the "Lord." And not only this, but the same merciful
+Jehovah wished to consume all the people, and he would have
+consumed them all, only that Moses prevailed upon Aaron to take a
+censer and put fire therein from off the altar of incense and go
+quickly to the congregation and make an atonement for them. He was
+not quick enough. The plague had already begun; and before he could
+possibly get the censers and incense among the people, fourteen
+thousand and seven hundred had died of the plague. How many more
+might have died, if Jehovah had not been so slow to anger and so
+merciful and tender to his children, we have no means of
+knowing.</p>
+<p>In the thirteenth chapter of the same book of</p>
+<center>237</center>
+<p>Numbers, we find that some spies were sent over into the
+promised land, and that they brought back grapes and figs and
+pomegranates, and reported that the whole land was flowing with
+milk and honey, but that the people were strong, that the cities
+were walled, and that the nations in the promised land were
+mightier than the Hebrews. They reported that all the people they
+met were men of a great stature, that they had seen "the giants,
+the sons of Anak "which come of giants," compared with whom the
+Israelites were "in their own sight as grasshoppers, "and so were
+we in their sight." Entirely discouraged by these reports, "all the
+congregation lifted up "their voice and cried, and the people wept
+that "night * * * and murmured against Moses and "against Aaron,
+and said unto them: Would God "that we had died in the land of
+Egypt! or would "God we had died in this wilderness!" Some of them
+thought that it would be better to go back,&mdash; that they might
+as well be slaves in Egypt as to be food for giants in the promised
+land. They did not want their bones crunched between the teeth of
+the sons of Anak.</p>
+<p>Jehovah got angry again, and said to Moses: "How long will these
+people provoke me? * * *</p>
+<center>238</center>
+<p>"I will smite them with pestilence, and disinherit "them." But
+Moses said: Lord, if you do this, the Egyptians will hear of it,
+and they will say that you were not able to bring your people into
+the promised land. Then he proceeded to flatter him by telling him
+how merciful and long-suffering he had been. Finally, Jehovah
+concluded to pardon the people this time, but his pardon depended
+upon the violation of his promise, for he said: "They shall "not
+see the land which I sware unto their fathers, "neither shall any
+of them that provoked me see it; "but my servant Caleb, * * * him
+will I bring "into the land." And Jehovah said to the people: "Your
+carcasses shall fall in this wilderness, and all "that were
+numbered of you according to your "whole number, from twenty years
+old and upward, "which have murmured against me, ye shall not "come
+into the land concerning which I sware to "make you dwell therein,
+save Caleb the son of "Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun. But
+your "little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them "will I
+bring in, and they shall know the land "which ye have despised. But
+as for you, your "carcasses shall fall in this wilderness. And your
+"children shall wander in the wilderness forty</p>
+<center>239</center>
+<p>"years * * * until your carcasses be wasted in "the
+wilderness."</p>
+<p>And all this because the people were afraid of giants, compared
+with whom they were but as grasshoppers.</p>
+<p>So we find that at one time the people became exceedingly
+hungry. They had no flesh to eat. There were six hundred thousand
+men of war, and they had nothing to feed on but manna. They
+naturally murmured and complained, and thereupon a wind from the
+Lord went forth and brought quails from the sea, (quails are
+generally found in the sea,) "and let them fall by the camp, as it
+were a day's "journey on this side, and as it were a day's journey
+"on the other side, round about the camp, and as it "were two
+cubits high upon the face of the earth. "And the people stood up
+all that day, and all that "night, and all the next day, and they
+gathered the "quails. * * * And while the flesh was yet be"tween
+their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of "the Lord was kindled
+against the people, and the "Lord smote the people with a very
+great plague."</p>
+<p>Yet he is slow to anger, long-suffering, merciful and just.</p>
+<p>In the thirty-second chapter of Exodus, is the ac</p>
+<center>240</center>
+<p>count of the golden calf. It must be borne in mind that the
+worship of this calf by the people was before the Ten Commandments
+had been given to them. Christians now insist that these
+commandments must have been inspired, because no human being could
+have constructed them,&mdash;could have conceived of them.</p>
+<p>It seems, according to this account, that Moses had been up in
+the mount with God, getting the Ten Commandments, and that while he
+was there the people had made the golden calf. When he came down
+and saw them, and found what they had done, having in his hands the
+two tables, the work of God, he cast the tables out of his hands,
+and broke them beneath the mount. He then took the calf which they
+had made, ground it to powder, strewed it in the water, and made
+the children of Israel drink of it. And in the twenty-seventh verse
+we are told what the Lord did: "Thus saith the Lord God of Israel:
+Put every man "his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate
+"to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man "his brother, and
+every man his companion, and "every man his neighbor. And the
+children of Levi "did according to the word of Moses; and there
+fell "of the people that day about three thousand men."</p>
+<center>241</center>
+<p>The reason for this slaughter is thus given: "For "Moses had
+said: Consecrate yourselves to-day to "the Lord, even every man
+upon his son, and upon " his brother, that he may bestow upon you a
+blessing "this day."</p>
+<p>Now, it must be remembered that there had not been as yet a
+promulgation of the commandment u Thou shalt have no other gods
+before me." This was a punishment for the infraction of a law
+before the law was known&mdash;before the commandment had been
+given. Was it cruel, or unjust?</p>
+<p>Does the following sound as though spoken by a God of mercy: "I
+will make mine arrows drunk "with blood, and my sword shall devour
+flesh"? And yet this is but a small part of the vengeance and
+destruction which God threatens to his enemies, as recorded in the
+thirty-second chapter of the book of Deuteronomy.</p>
+<p>In the sixty-eighth Psalm is found this merciful passage: "That
+thy foot may be dipped in the blood "of thine enemies, and the
+tongue of thy dogs in the "same.</p>
+<p>So we find in the eleventh chapter of Joshua the reason why the
+Canaanites and other nations made war upon the Jews. It is as
+follows: "For it was of</p>
+<center>242</center>
+<p>"the Lord to harden their hearts that they should "come against
+Israel in battle, that he might destroy "them utterly, and that
+they might have no favor, but "that he might destroy them."</p>
+<p>Read the thirtieth chapter of Exodus and you will find that God
+gave to Moses a recipe for making the oil of holy anointment, and
+in the thirty-second verse we find that no one was to make any oil
+like it and in the next verse it is declared that whoever
+compounded any like it, or whoever put any of it on a stranger,
+should be cut off from the Lord's people.</p>
+<p>In the same chapter, a recipe is given for perfumery, and it is
+declared that whoever shall make any like it, or that smells like
+it, shall suffer death.</p>
+<p>In the next chapter, it is decreed that if any one fails to keep
+the Sabbath "he shall be surely put to death."</p>
+<p>There are in the Pentateuch hundreds and hundreds of passages
+showing the cruelty of Jehovah. What could have been more cruel
+than the flood? What more heartless than to overwhelm a world? What
+more merciless than to cover a shoreless sea with the corpses of
+men, women and children?</p>
+<p>The Pentateuch is filled with anathemas, with curses, with words
+of vengeance, of jealousy, of hatred, and brutality. By reason of
+these passages,</p>
+<center>243</center>
+<p>millions of people have plucked from their hearts the flowers of
+pity and justified the murder of women and the assassination of
+babes.</p>
+<p>In the second chapter of Second Kings we find that the prophet
+Elisha was on his way to a place called Bethel, and as he was
+going, there came forth little children out of the city and mocked
+him and said: "Go up thou bald head; Go up thou bald "head! And he
+turned back and looked on them "and cursed them in the name of the
+Lord. And "there came forth two she bears out of the wood and "tare
+forty and two children of them."</p>
+<p>Of course he obtained his miraculous power from Jehovah; and
+there must have been some communication between Jehovah and the
+bears. Why did the bears come? How did they happen to be there?
+Here is a prophet of God cursing children in the name of the Lord,
+and thereupon these children are torn in fragments by wild
+beasts.</p>
+<p>This is the mercy of Jehovah; and yet I am told that the Bible
+has nothing cruel in it; that it preaches only mercy, justice,
+charity, peace; that all hearts are softened by reading it; that
+the savage nature of man is melted into tenderness and pity by it,
+and that only the totally depraved can find evil in it.</p>
+<center>244</center>
+<p>And so I might go on, page after page, book after book, in the
+Old Testament, and describe the cruelties committed in accordance
+with the commands of Jehovah.</p>
+<p>But all the cruelties in the Old Testament are absolute mercies
+compared with the hell of the New Testament. In the Old Testament
+God stops with the grave. He seems to have been satisfied when he
+saw his enemies dead, when he saw their flesh rotting in the open
+air, or in the beaks of birds, or in the teeth of wild beasts. But
+in the New Testament, vengeance does not stop with the grave. It
+begins there, and stops never. The enemies of Jehovah are to be
+pursued through all the ages of eternity. There is to be no
+forgiveness&mdash;no cessation, no mercy, nothing but everlasting
+pain.</p>
+<p>And yet we are told that the author of hell is a being of
+infinite mercy.</p>
+<p><i>Second</i>; All intelligent Christians will admit that there
+are many passages in the Bible that, if found in the Koran, they
+would regard as impure and immoral.</p>
+<p>It is not necessary for me to specify the passages, nor to call
+the attention of the public to such things. I am willing to trust
+the judgment of every honest reader, and the memory of every
+biblical student.</p>
+<center>245</center>
+<p>The Old Testament upholds polygamy. That is infinitely impure.
+It sanctions concubinage. That is impure; nothing could or can be
+worse. Hundreds of things are publicly told that should have
+remained unsaid. No one is made better by reading the history of
+Tamar, or the biography of Lot, or the memoirs of Noah, of Dinah,
+of Sarah and Abraham, or of Jacob and Leah and Rachel and others
+that I do not care to mention. No one is improved in his morals by
+reading these things.</p>
+<p>All I mean to say is, that the Bible is like other books
+produced by other nations in the same stage of civilization. What
+one age considers pure, the next considers impure. What one age may
+consider just, the next may look upon as infamous. Civilization is
+a growth. It is continually dying, and continually being born. Old
+branches rot and fall, new buds appear. It is a perpetual twilight,
+and a perpetual dawn&mdash;the death of the old, and the birth of
+the new.</p>
+<p>I do not say, throw away the Bible because there are some
+foolish passages in it, but I say, throw away the foolish passages.
+Don't throw away wisdom because it is found in company with folly;
+but do not say that folly is wisdom, because it is found in its
+company. All that is true in the Bible is true whether</p>
+<center>246</center>
+<p>it is inspired or not. All that is true did not need to be
+inspired. Only that which is not true needs the assistance of
+miracles and wonders. I read the Bible as I read other books. What
+I believe to be good, I admit is good; what I think is bad, I say
+is bad; what I believe to be true, I say is true, and what I
+believe to be false, I denounce as false.</p>
+<p><i>Third</i>. Let us see whether there are any contradictions in
+the Bible.</p>
+<p>A little book has been published, called "Self "Contradictions
+of the Bible," by J. P. Mendum, of The Boston Investigator. I find
+many of the apparent contradictions of the Bible noted in this
+book.</p>
+<p>We all know that the Pentateuch is filled with the commandments
+of God upon the subject of sacrificing animals. We know that God
+declared, again and again, that the smell of burning flesh was a
+sweet savor to him. Chapter after chapter is filled with directions
+how to kill the beasts that were set apart for sacrifices; what to
+do with their blood, their flesh and their fat. And yet, in the
+seventh chapter of Jeremiah, all this is expressly denied, in the
+following language: "For I spake not unto your fathers, nor
+commanded "them in the day that I brought them out of the land "of
+Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices."</p>
+<center>247</center>
+<p>And in the sixth chapter of Jeremiah, the same Jehovah says;
+"Your burnt offerings are not ac"ceptable, nor your sacrifices
+sweet unto me."</p>
+<p>In the Psalms, Jehovah derides the idea of sacrifices, and says:
+"Will I eat of the flesh of "bulls, or drink the blood of goats?
+Offer unto God "thanksgiving, and pay thy vows unto the Most
+"High."</p>
+<p>So I find in Isaiah the following: "Bring no more "vain
+oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; "the new moons and
+sabbaths, the calling of as"semblies, I cannot away with; it is
+iniquity, even "the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your
+"appointed feasts my soul hateth; they are a trouble "to me; I am
+weary to bear them." "To what "purpose is the multitude of your
+sacrifices unto me? "saith the Lord. I am full of the burnt
+offerings of "rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not
+"in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats. "When ye
+come to appear before me, who hath re"quired this at your
+hand?"</p>
+<p>So I find in James: "Let no man say when he is "tempted: I am
+tempted of God; for God cannot be "tempted with evil, neither
+tempteth he any man;" and yet in the twenty-second chapter of
+Genesis I</p>
+<center>248</center>
+<p>find this: "And it came to pass after these things, "that God
+did tempt Abraham."</p>
+<p>In Second Samuel we see that he tempted David. He also tempted
+Job, and Jeremiah says: "O Lord, "thou hast deceived me, and I was
+deceived." To such an extent was Jeremiah deceived, that in the
+fourteenth chapter and eighteenth verse we find him crying out to
+the Lord: "Wilt thou be altogether "unto me as a liar?"</p>
+<p>So in Second Thessalonians: "For these things "God shall send
+them strong delusions, that they "should believe a lie."</p>
+<p>So in First Kings, twenty-second chapter: "Behold, "the Lord
+hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all "these thy prophets,
+and the Lord hath spoken evil "concerning thee."</p>
+<p>So in Ezekiel: "And if the prophet be deceived "when he hath
+spoken a thing, I, the Lord, have de"ceived that prophet."</p>
+<p>So I find: "Thou shalt not bear false witness;" and in the book
+of Revelation: "All liars shall have "their part in the lake which
+burneth with fire and "brimstone;" yet in First Kings,
+twenty-second chapter, I find the following: "And the Lord said:
+"Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and</p>
+<center>249</center>
+<p>"fall at Ramoth-Gilead? And one said on this "manner, and
+another said on that manner. And "there came forth a spirit and
+stood before the Lord, "and said: I will persuade him. And the Lord
+said "unto him: Wherewith? And he said: I will go "forth, and I
+will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all "his prophets. And he
+said: Thou shalt persuade "him, and prevail also. Go forth, and do
+so."</p>
+<p>In the Old Testament we find contradictory laws about the same
+thing, and contradictory accounts of the same occurrences.</p>
+<p>In the twentieth chapter of Exodus we find the first account of
+the giving of the Ten Commandments. In the thirty-fourth chapter
+another account of the same transaction is given. These two
+accounts could not have been written by the same person. Read them,
+and you will be forced to admit that both of them cannot by any
+possibility be true. They differ in so many particulars, and the
+commandments themselves are so different, that it is impossible
+that both can be true.</p>
+<p>So there are two histories of the creation. If you will read the
+first and second chapters of Genesis, you will find two accounts
+inconsistent with each other, both of which cannot be true. The
+first account</p>
+<center>250</center>
+<p>ends with the third verse of the second chapter of Genesis. By
+the first account, man and woman were made at the same time, and
+made last of all. In the second account, not to be too critical,
+all the beasts of the field were made before Eve was, and Adam was
+made before the beasts of the field; whereas in the first account,
+God made all the animals before he made Adam. In the first account
+there is nothing about the rib or the bone or the side,&mdash;that
+is only found in the second account. In the first account, there is
+nothing about the Garden of Eden, nothing about the four rivers,
+nothing about the mist that went up from the earth and watered the
+whole face of the ground; nothing said about making man from dust;
+nothing about God breathing into his nostrils the breath of life;
+yet according to the second account, the Garden of Eden was
+planted, and all the animals were made before Eve was formed. It is
+impossible to harmonize the two accounts.</p>
+<p>So, in the first account, only the word God is used&mdash;"God
+said so and so,&mdash;God did so and so." In the second account he
+is called Lord God,&mdash;"the "Lord God formed man,"&mdash;"the
+Lord God caused "it to rain,"&mdash;"the Lord God planted a
+garden." It is now admitted that the book of Genesis is made up</p>
+<center>251</center>
+<p>of two stories, and it is very easy to take them apart and show
+exactly how they were put together.</p>
+<p>So there are two stories of the flood, differing almost entirely
+from each other&mdash;that is to say, so contradictory that both
+cannot be true.</p>
+<p>There are two accounts of the manner in which Saul was made
+king, and the accounts are inconsistent with each other.</p>
+<p>Scholars now everywhere admit that the copyists made many
+changes, pieced out fragments, and made additions, interpolations,
+and meaningless repetitions. It is now generally conceded that the
+speeches of Elihu, in Job, were interpolated, and most of the
+prophecies were made by persons whose names even are not known.</p>
+<p>The manuscripts of the Old Testament were not alike. The Greek
+version differed from the Hebrew, and there was no generally
+received text of the Old Testament until after the beginning of the
+Christian era. Marks and points to denote vowels were invented
+probably in the seventh century after Christ; and whether these
+marks and points were put in the proper places, is still an open
+question. The Alexandrian version, or what is known as the
+Septuagint, translated by seventy-two learned Jews assisted by</p>
+<center>252</center>
+<p>miraculous power, about two hundred years before Christ, could
+not, it is now said, have been translated from the Hebrew text that
+we now have. This can only be accounted for by supposing that we
+have a different Hebrew text. The early Christians adopted the
+Septuagint and were satisfied for a time; but so many errors were
+found, and so many were scanning every word in search of something
+to assist their peculiar views, that new versions were produced,
+and the new versions all differed somewhat from the Septuagint as
+well as from each other. These versions were mostly in Greek. The
+first Latin Bible was produced in Africa, and no one has ever found
+out which Latin manuscript was original. Many were produced, and
+all differed from each other. These Latin versions were compared
+with each other and with the Hebrew, and a new Latin version was
+made in the fifth century, and the old ones held their own for
+about four hundred years, and no one knows which version was right.
+Besides, there were Ethiopie, Egyptian, Armenian and several other
+versions, all differing from each other as well as from all others.
+It was not until the fourteenth century that the Bible was
+translated into German, and not until the fifteenth that Bibles
+were printed in the principal</p>
+<center>253</center>
+<p>languages of Europe; and most of these Bibles differed from each
+other, and gave rise to endless disputes and to almost numberless
+crimes.</p>
+<p>No man in the world is learned enough, nor has he time enough,
+even if he could live a thousand years, to find what books belonged
+to and constituted the Old Testament. He could not ascertain the
+authors of the books, nor when they were written, nor what they
+mean. Until a man has sufficient time to do all this, no one can
+tell whether he believes the Bible or not. It is sufficient,
+however, to say that the Old Testament is filled with
+contradictions as to the number of men slain in battle, as to the
+number of years certain kings reigned, as to the number of a
+woman's children, as to dates of events, and as to locations of
+towns and cities.</p>
+<p>Besides all this, many of its laws are contradictory, often
+commanding and prohibiting the same thing.</p>
+<p>The New Testament also is filled with contradictions. The
+gospels do not even agree upon the terms of salvation. They do not
+even agree as to the gospel of Christ, as to the mission of Christ.
+They do not tell the same story regarding the betrayal, the
+crucifixion, the resurrection or the ascension of Christ. John is
+the only one that ever heard</p>
+<center>254</center>
+<p>of being "born again." The evangelists do not give the same
+account of the same miracles, and the miracles are not given in the
+same order. They do not agree even in the genealogy of Christ.</p>
+<p><i>Fourth</i>. Is the Bible scientific? In my judgment it is
+not</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that this world was "cre"ated that the
+universe was produced by an infinite being, who had existed an
+eternity prior to such "creation." My mind is such that I cannot
+possibly conceive of a "creation." Neither can I conceive of an
+infinite being who dwelt in infinite space an infinite length of
+time.</p>
+<p>I do not think it is scientific to say that the universe was
+made in six days, or that this world is only about six thousand
+years old, or that man has only been upon the earth for about six
+thousand years.</p>
+<p>If the Bible is true, Adam was the first man. The age of Adam is
+given, the age of his children, and the time, according to the
+Bible, was kept and known from Adam, so that if the Bible is true,
+man has only been in this world about six thousand years. In my
+judgment, and in the judgment of every scientific man whose
+judgment is worth having or quoting, man inhabited this earth for
+thousands of ages prior</p>
+<center>255</center>
+<p>to the creation of Adam. On one point the Bible is at least
+certain, and that is, as to the life of Adam. The genealogy is
+given, the pedigree is there, and it is impossible to escape the
+conclusion that, according to the Bible, man has only been upon
+this earth about six thousand years. There is no chance there to
+say "long periods of time," or "geological ages." There we have the
+years. And as to the time of the creation of man, the Bible does
+not tell the truth.</p>
+<p>What is generally called "The Fall of Man" is unscientific. God
+could not have made a moral character for Adam. Even admitting the
+rest of the story to be true, Adam certainly had to make character
+for himself.</p>
+<p>The idea that there never would have been any disease or death
+in this world had it not been for the eating of the forbidden fruit
+is preposterously unscientific. Admitting that Adam was made only
+six thousand years ago, death was in the world millions of years
+before that time. The old rocks are filled with remains of what
+were once living and breathing animals. Continents were built up
+with the petrified corpses of animals. We know, therefore, that
+death did not enter the world because of Adam's sin. We know that
+life and death are but successive links in an eternal chain.</p>
+<center>256</center>
+<p>So it is unscientific to say that thorns and brambles were
+produced by Adam's sin.</p>
+<p>It is also unscientific to say that labor was pronounced as a
+curse upon man. Labor is not a curse. Labor is a blessing. Idleness
+is a curse.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that the sons of God, living, we
+suppose, in heaven, fell in love with the daughters of men, and
+that on account of this a flood was sent upon the earth that
+covered the highest mountains.</p>
+<p>The whole story of the flood is unscientific, and no scientific
+man worthy of the name, believes it.</p>
+<p>Neither is the story of the tower of Babel a scientific thing.
+Does any scientific man believe that God confounded the language of
+men for fear they would succeed in building a tower high enough to
+reach to heaven?</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that angels were in the habit of
+walking about the earth, eating veal dressed with butter and milk,
+and making bargains about the destruction of cities.</p>
+<p>The story of Lot's wife having been turned into a pillar of salt
+is extremely unscientific.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that people at one time lived to be
+nearly a thousand years of age. The history</p>
+<center>257</center>
+<p>of the world shows that human life is lengthening instead of
+shortening.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that the infinite God wrestled with
+Jacob and got the better of him, putting his thigh out of
+joint.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that God, in the likeness of a flame
+of fire, inhabited a bush.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that a stick could be changed into a
+living snake. Living snakes can not be made out of sticks. There
+are not the necessary elements in a stick to make a snake.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that God changed water into blood.
+All the elements of blood are not in water.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to declare that dust was changed into
+lice.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that God caused a thick darkness
+over the land of Egypt, and yet allowed it to be light in the
+houses of the Jews.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that about seventy people could, in
+two hundred and fifteen years increase to three millions.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that an infinitely good God would
+destroy innocent people to get revenge upon a king.</p>
+<center>258</center>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that slavery was once right, that
+polygamy was once a virtue, and that extermination was mercy.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to assert that a being of infinite power
+and goodness went into partnership with insects,&mdash;granted
+letters of marque and reprisal to hornets.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to insist that bread was really rained from
+heaven.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to suppose that an infinite being spent
+forty days and nights furnishing Moses with plans and
+specifications for a tabernacle, an ark, a mercy seat, cherubs of
+gold, a table, four rings, some dishes, some spoons, one
+candlestick, several bowls, a few knobs, seven lamps, some
+snuffers, a pair of tongs, some curtains, a roof for a tent of
+rams' skins dyed red, a few boards, an altar with horns, ash pans,
+basins and flesh hooks, shovels and pots and sockets of silver and
+ouches of gold and pins of brass&mdash;for all of which this God
+brought with him patterns from heaven.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that when a man commits a sin, he
+can settle with God by killing a sheep.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to say that a priest, by laying his hands
+on the head of a goat, can transfer the sins of a people to the
+animal.</p>
+<center>259</center>
+<p>Was it scientific to endeavor to ascertain whether a woman was
+virtuous or not, by compelling her to drink water mixed with dirt
+from the floor of the sanctuary?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that a dry stick budded, blossomed, and
+bore almonds; or that the ashes of a red heifer mixed with water
+can cleanse us of sin; or that a good being gave cities into the
+hands of the Jews in consideration of their murdering all the
+inhabitants?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that an animal saw an angel, and
+conversed with a man?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to imagine that thrusting a spear through the
+body of a woman ever stayed a plague?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that a river cut itself in two and
+allowed the lower end to run off?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to assert that seven priests blew seven rams'
+horns loud enough to blow down the walls of a city?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that the sun stood still in the midst of
+heaven, and hasted not to go down for about a whole day, and that
+the moon also stayed?</p>
+<p>Is it scientifically probable that an angel of the Lord devoured
+unleavened cakes and broth with fire that came out of the end of a
+stick, as he sat</p>
+<center>260</center>
+<p>under an oak tree; or that God made known his will by letting
+dew fall on wool without wetting the ground around it; or that an
+angel of God appeared to Manoah in the absence of her husband, and
+that this angel afterwards went up in a flame of fire, and as the
+result of this visit a child was born whose strength was in his
+hair?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that the muscle of a man depended upon
+the length of his locks?</p>
+<p>Is it unscientific to deny that water gushed from a hollow place
+in a dry bone?</p>
+<p>Is it evidence of a thoroughly scientific mind to believe that
+one man turned over a house so large that three thousand people
+were on its roof?</p>
+<p>Is it purely scientific to say that a man was once fed by the
+birds of the air, who brought him bread and meat every morning and
+evening, and that afterward an angel turned cook and prepared two
+suppers in one night, for the same prophet, who ate enough to last
+him forty days and forty nights?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that a river divided because the water
+had been struck with a cloak; or that a man actually went to heaven
+in a chariot of fire drawn by horses of fire; or that a being of
+infinite mercy would destroy children for laughing at a bald</p>
+<center>261</center>
+<p>headed prophet; or curse children and childrens children with
+leprosy for a father's fault; or that he made iron float in water;
+or that when one corpse touched another it came to life; or that
+the sun went backward in heaven so that the shadow on a sundial
+went back ten degrees, as a sign that a miserable barbarian king
+would get well?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that the earth not only stopped in its
+rotary motion, but absolutely turned the other way,&mdash;that its
+motion was reversed simply as a sign to a petty king?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that Solomon made gold and silver at
+Jerusalem as plentiful as stones, when we know that there were
+kings in his day who could have thrown away the value of the whole
+of Palestine without missing the amount?</p>
+<p>Is it scientific to say that Solomon exceeded all the kings of
+the earth in glory, when his country was barren, without roads,
+when his people were few, without commerce, without the arts,
+without the sciences, without education, without luxuries?</p>
+<p>According to the Bible, as long as Jehovah attended to the
+affairs of the Jews, they had nothing but war, pestilence and
+famine; after Jehovah abandoned them, and the Christians ceased, in
+a measure, to persecute</p>
+<center>262</center>
+<p>them, the Jews became the most prosperous of people. Since
+Jehovah in his anger cast them away, they have produced painters,
+sculptors, scientists, statesmen, composers, soldiers and
+philosophers.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe that God ever prevented rain,
+that he ever caused famine, that he ever sent locusts to devour the
+wheat and corn, that he ever relied on pestilence for the
+government of mankind; or that he ever killed children to get even
+with their parents.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe that the king of Egypt invaded
+Palestine with seventy thousand horsemen and twelve hundred
+chariots of war. There was not, at that time, a road in Palestine
+over which a chariot could be driven.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe that in a battle between
+Jeroboam and Abijah, the army of Abijah slew in one day five
+hundred thousand chosen men.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe that Zerah, the Ethiopian,
+invaded Palestine with a million of men who were overthrown and
+destroyed; or that Jehoshaphat had a standing army of nine hundred
+and sixty thousand men.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to believe that Jehovah advertised for a
+liar, as is related in Second Chronicles.</p>
+<center>263</center>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe that fire refused to burn, or
+that water refused to wet.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe in dreams, in visions, and in
+miracles.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe that children have been born
+without fathers, that the dead have ever been raised to life, or
+that people have bodily ascended to heaven taking their clothes
+with them.</p>
+<p>It is not scientific to believe in the supernatural. Science
+dwells in the realm of fact, in the realm of demonstration. Science
+depends upon human experience, upon observation, upon reason.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that an innocent man can be punished
+in place of a criminal, and for a criminal, and that the criminal,
+on account of such punishment, can be justified.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to say that a finite sin deserves infinite
+punishment.</p>
+<p>It is unscientific to believe that devils can inhabit human
+beings, or that they can take possession of swine, or that the
+devil could bodily take a man, or the Son of God, and carry him to
+the pinnacle of a temple.</p>
+<p>In short, the foolish, the unreasonable, the false, the
+miraculous and the supernatural are unscientific.</p>
+<center>264</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Mr. Talmage gives his reason for accepting the
+New Testament, and says: "You "can trace it right out. Jerome and
+Eusebius in the "first century, and Origen in the second century,
+"gave lists of the writers of the New Testament. "These lists
+correspond with our list of the writers "of the New Testament,
+showing that precisely as "we have it, they had it in the third and
+fourth cen"turies. Where did they get it? From Iren&aelig;us.
+"Where did he get it? From Polycarp. Where did "Polycarp get it?
+From Saint John, who was a per"sonal associate of Jesus. The line
+is just as clear "as anything ever was clear." How do you
+understand this matter, and has Mr. Talmage stated the facts?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Let us examine first the witnesses produced by
+Mr. Talmage. We will also call attention to the great principle
+laid down by Mr. Talmage for the examination of
+evidence,&mdash;that where a witness is found false in one
+particular, his entire testimony must be thrown away.</p>
+<p>Eusebius was born somewhere about two hundred and seventy years
+after Christ. After many vicissitudes he became, it is said, the
+friend of Constantine. He made an oration in which he extolled the
+virtues</p>
+<center>265</center>
+<p>of this murderer, and had the honor of sitting at the right hand
+of the man who had shed the blood of his wife and son. In the great
+controversy with regard to the position that Christ should occupy
+in the Trinity, he sided with Arius, "and lent himself to the
+perse"cution of the orthodox with Athanasius." He insisted that
+Jesus Christ was not the same as God, and that he was not of equal
+power and glory. Will Mr. Talmage admit that his witness told the
+truth in this? "He would not even call the Son co-eternal "with
+God."</p>
+<p>Eusebius must have been an exceedingly truthful man. He declared
+that the tracks of Pharaoh's chariots were in his day visible upon
+the shores of the Red Sea; that these tracks had been through all
+the years miraculously preserved from the action of wind and wave,
+as a supernatural testimony to the fact that God miraculously
+overwhelmed Pharaoh and his hosts.</p>
+<p>Eusebius also relates that when Joseph and Mary arrived in Eygpt
+they took up their abode in Hermopolis,</p>
+<p>a city of Theb&aelig;us, in which was the superb temple of
+Serapis. When Joseph and Mary entered the temple, not only the
+great idol, but all the lesser idols fell down before him.</p>
+<center>266</center>
+<p>"It is believed by the learned Dr. Lardner, that "Eusebius was
+the one guilty of the forgery in the "passage found in Josephus
+concerning Christ. Un"blushing falsehoods and literary forgeries of
+the "vilest character darkened the pages of his historical
+"writings." (Waites History.)</p>
+<p>From the same authority I learn that Eusebius invented an
+eclipse, and some earthquakes, to agree with the account of the
+crucifixion. It is also believed that Eusebius quoted from works
+that never existed, and that he pretended a work had been written
+by Porphyry, entitled: "The Philosophy of "Oracles," and then
+quoted from it for the purpose of proving the truth of the
+Christian religion.</p>
+<p>The fact is, Eusebius was utterly destitute of truth. He
+believed, as many still believe, that he could please God by the
+fabrication of lies.</p>
+<p>Iren&aelig;us lived somewhere about the end of the second
+century. "Very little is known of his early "history, and the
+accounts given in various biogra"phies are for the most part
+conjectural." The writings of Iren&aelig;us are known to us
+principally through Eusebius, and we know the value of his
+testimony.</p>
+<p>Now, if we are to take the testimony of Iren&aelig;us,</p>
+<center>267</center>
+<p>why not take it? He says that the ministry of Christ lasted for
+twenty years, and that Christ was fifty years old at the time of
+his crucifixion. He also insisted that the "Gospel of Paul" was
+written by Luke, "a "statement made to give sanction to the gospel
+of "Luke."</p>
+<p>Iren&aelig;us insisted that there were four gospels, that there
+must be, and "he speaks frequently of these "gospels, and argues
+that they should be four in "number, neither more nor less, because
+there are "four universal winds, and four quarters of the "world;"
+and he might have added: because donkeys have four legs.</p>
+<p>These facts can be found in "The History of the "Christian
+Religion to A. D. 200," by Charles B. Waite,&mdash;a book that Mr.
+Talmage ought to read.</p>
+<p>According to Mr. Waite, Iren&aelig;us, in the thirtythird
+chapter of his fifth book, <i>Adversus H&aelig;reses</i>, cites
+from Papias the following sayings of Christ: "The days will come in
+which vines shall grow "which shall have ten thousand branches, and
+on "each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each twig "ten thousand
+shoots, and in each shoot ten thousand "clusters, and in every one
+of the clusters ten "thousand grapes, and every grape when
+pressed</p>
+<center>268</center>
+<p>"will give five and twenty metrets of wine." Also that "one
+thousand million pounds of clear, pure, fine "flour will be
+produced from one grain of wheat." Iren&aelig;us adds that "these
+things were borne witness "to by Papias the hearer of John and the
+companion "of Polycarp."</p>
+<p>Is it possible that the eternal welfare of a human being depends
+upon believing the testimony of Polycarp and Iren&aelig;us? Are
+people to be saved or lost on the reputation of Eusebius? Suppose a
+man is firmly convinced that Polycarp knew nothing about Saint
+John, and that Saint John knew nothing about Christ,&mdash;what
+then? Suppose he is convinced that Eusebius is utterly unworthy of
+credit,&mdash;what then? Must a man believe statements that he has
+every reason to think are false?</p>
+<p>The question arises as to the witnesses named by Mr. Talmage,
+whether they were competent to decide as to the truth or falsehood
+of the gospels. We have the right to inquire into their mental
+traits for the purpose of giving only due weight to what they have
+said.</p>
+<p>Mr. Bronson C. Keeler is the author of a book called: "A Short
+History of the Bible." I avail myself of a few of the facts he has
+there collected. I</p>
+<center>269</center>
+<p>find in this book, that Iren&aelig;us, Clement and Origen
+believed in the fable of the Phoenix, and insisted that God
+produced the bird on purpose to prove the probability of the
+resurrection of the body. Some of the early fathers believed that
+the hyena changed its sex every year. Others of them gave as a
+reason why good people should eat only animals with a cloven foot,
+the fact that righteous people lived not only in this world, but
+had expectations in the next. They also believed that insane people
+were possessed by devils; that angels ate manna; that some angels
+loved the daughters of men and fell; that the pains of women in
+childbirth, and the fact that serpents crawl on their bellies, were
+proofs that the account of the fall, as given in Genesis, is true;
+that the stag renewed its youth by eating poisonous snakes; that
+eclipses and comets were signs of God's anger; that volcanoes were
+openings into hell; that demons blighted apples; that a corpse in a
+cemetery moved to make room for another corpse to be placed beside
+it. Clement of Alexandria believed that hail storms, tempests and
+plagues were caused by demons. He also believed, with Mr. Talmage,
+that the events in the life of Abraham were typical and prophetical
+of arithmetic and astronomy.</p>
+<center>270</center>
+<p>Origen, another of the witnesses of Mr. Talmage, said that the
+sun, moon and stars were living creatures, endowed with reason and
+free will, and occasionally inclined to sin. That they had free
+will, he proved by quoting from Job; that they were rational
+creatures, he inferred from the fact that they moved. The sun, moon
+and stars, according to him, were "subject to vanity," and he
+believed that they prayed to God through his only begotten son.</p>
+<p>These intelligent witnesses believed that the blighting of vines
+and fruit trees, and the disease and destruction that came upon
+animals and men, were all the work of demons; but that when they
+had entered into men, the sign of the cross would drive them out.
+They derided the idea that the earth is round, and one of them
+said: "About the antipodes also, one "can neither hear nor speak
+without laughter. It is "asserted as something serious that we
+should be"lieve that there are men who have their feet oppo"site to
+ours. The ravings of Anaxagoras are more "tolerable, who said that
+snow was black."</p>
+<p>Concerning these early fathers, Professor Davidson, as quoted by
+Mr. Keeler, uses the following language: "Of the three fathers who
+contributed "most to the growth of the canon, Iren&aelig;us was</p>
+<pre>
+ 271
+</pre>
+<p>"credulous and blundering; Tertullian passionate "and one-sided;
+and Clement of Alexandria, im"bued with the treasures of Greek
+wisdom, was "mainly occupied with ecclesiastical ethics. Their
+"assertions show both ignorance and exaggeration." These early
+fathers relied upon by Mr. Talmage, quoted from books now regarded
+as apocryphal&mdash; books that have been thrown away by the church
+and are no longer considered as of the slightest authority. Upon
+this subject I again quote Mr. Keeler: "Clement quoted the 'Gospel
+according to "'the Hebrews,' which is now thrown away by the
+"church; he also quoted from the Sibylline books "and the
+Pentateuch in the same sentence. Origen "frequently cited the
+Gospel of the Hebrews. Jerome "did the same, and Clement believed
+in the 'Gospel "'according to the Egyptians.' The Shepherd of
+"Hermas, a book in high repute in the early church, "and one which
+distinctly claims to have been "inspired, was quoted by
+Iren&aelig;us as Scripture. "Clement of Alexandria said it was a
+divine revela"tion. Origen said it was divinely inspired, and
+"quoted it as Holy Scripture at the same time that "he cited the
+Psalms and Epistles of Paul. Jerome "quoted the 'Wisdom of Jesus,
+the Son of Sirach,'</p>
+<center>272</center>
+<p>"as divine Scripture. Origen quotes the 'Wisdom "of Solomon' as
+the 'Word of God' and 'the "'words of Christ himself.' Eusebius of
+C&aelig;sarea "cites it as a * Divine Oracle,' and St. Chrysostom
+"used it as Scripture. So Eusebius quotes the "thirteenth chapter
+of Daniel as Scripture, but as a "matter of fact, Daniel has not a
+thirteenth chapter,&mdash; "the church has taken it away. Clement
+spoke of "the writer of the fourth book of Esdras as a prophet; "he
+thought Baruch as much the word of God as "any other book, and he
+quotes it as divine Scripture. "Clement cites Barnabas as an
+apostle. Origen "quotes from the Epistle of Barnabas, calls it
+'Holy " 'Scripture,' and places it on a level with the Psalms "and
+the Epistles of Paul; and Clement of Alexan"dria believed in the
+'Epistle of Barnabas,' and the "'Revelation, of Peter,' and wrote
+comments upon "these holy books."</p>
+<p>Nothing can exceed the credulity of the early fathers, unless it
+may be their ignorance. They believed everything that was
+miraculous. They believed everything except the truth. Anything
+that really happened was considered of no importance by them. They
+looked for wonders, miracles, and monstrous things,
+and&mdash;generally found them. They revelled</p>
+<center>273</center>
+<p>in the misshapen and the repulsive. They did not think it wrong
+to swear falsely in a good cause. They interpolated, forged, and
+changed the records to suit themselves, for the sake of Christ.
+They quoted from persons who never wrote. They misrepresented those
+who had written, and their evidence is absolutely worthless. They
+were ignorant, credulous, mendacious, fanatical, pious,
+unreasonable, bigoted, hypocritical, and for the most part, insane.
+Read the book of Revelation, and you will agree with me that
+nothing that ever emanated from a madhouse can more than equal it
+for incoherence. Most of the writings of the early fathers are of
+the same kind.</p>
+<p>As to Saint John, the real truth is, that we know nothing
+certainly of him. We do not know that he ever lived.</p>
+<p>We know nothing certainly of Jesus Christ. We know nothing of
+his infancy, nothing of his youth, and we are not sure that such a
+person ever existed.</p>
+<p>We know nothing of Polycarp. We do not know where he was born,
+or where, or how he died. We know nothing for certain about
+Iren&aelig;us. All the names quoted by Mr. Talmage as his witnesses
+are surrounded by clouds and doubts, by mist and darkness. We only
+know that many of their</p>
+<center>274</center>
+<p>statements are false, and do not know that any of them are
+true.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of the following statement by
+Mr. Talmage: "Oh, I have to tell you that no "man ever died for a
+lie cheerfully and triumphantly"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. There was a time when men "cheerfully "and
+triumphantly died" in defence of the doctrine of the "real
+presence" of God in the wafer and wine. Does Mr. Talmage believe in
+the doctrine of "tran"substantiation"? Yet hundreds have died
+"cheer"fully and triumphantly" for it. Men have died for the idea
+that baptism by immersion is the only scriptural baptism. Did they
+die for a lie? If not, is Mr. Talmage a Baptist?</p>
+<p>Giordano Bruno was an atheist, yet he perished at the stake
+rather than retract his opinions. He did not expect to be welcomed
+by angels and by God. He did not look for a crown of glory. He
+expected simply death and eternal extinction. Does the fact that he
+died for that belief prove its truth?</p>
+<p>Thousands upon thousands have died in defence of the religion of
+Mohammed. Was Mohammed an impostor? Thousands have welcomed death
+in defence of the doctrines of Buddha. Is Buddhism true?</p>
+<center>275</center>
+<p>So I might make a tour of the world, and of all ages of human
+history, and find that millions and millions have died "cheerfully
+and triumphantly" in defence of their opinions. There is not the
+slightest truth in Mr. Talmage's statement.</p>
+<p>A little while ago, a man shot at the Czar of Russia. On the day
+of his execution he was asked if he wished religious consolation.
+He replied that he believed in no religion. What did that prove? It
+proved only the man's honesty of opinion. All the martyrs in the
+world cannot change, never did change, a falsehood into a truth,
+nor a truth into a falsehood. Martyrdom proves nothing but the
+sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty and meanness of his
+murderers. Thousands and thousands of people have imagined that
+they knew things, that they were certain, and have died rather than
+retract their honest beliefs.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage now says that he knows all about the Old Testament,
+that the prophecies were fulfilled, and yet he does not know when
+the prophecies were made&mdash;whether they were made before or
+after the fact. He does not know whether the destruction of Babylon
+was told before it happened, or after. He knows nothing upon the
+subject. He does not know</p>
+<center>276</center>
+<p>who made the pretended prophecies. He does not know that Isaiah,
+or Jeremiah, or Habakkuk, or Hosea ever lived in this world. He
+does not know who wrote a single book of the Old Testament. He
+knows nothing on the subject. He believes in the inspiration of the
+Old Testament because ancient cities finally fell into
+decay&mdash;were overrun and destroyed by enemies, and he accounts
+for the fact that the Jew does not lose his nationality by saying
+that the Old Testament is true.</p>
+<p>The Jews have been persecuted by the Christians, and they are
+still persecuted by them; and Mr. Talmage seems to think that this
+persecution was a part of Gods plan, that the Jews might, by
+persecution, be prevented from mingling with other nationalities,
+and so might stand, through the instrumentality of perpetual hate
+and cruelty, the suffering witnesses of the divine truth of the
+Bible.</p>
+<p>The Jews do not testify to the truth of the Bible, but to the
+barbarism and inhumanity of Christians&mdash; to the meanness and
+hatred of what we are pleased to call the "civilized world." They
+testify to the fact that nothing so hardens the human heart as
+religion.</p>
+<p>There is no prophecy in the Old Testament foretelling the coming
+of Jesus Christ. There is not one</p>
+<center>277</center>
+<p>word in the Old Testament referring to him in any way&mdash;not
+one word. The only way to prove this is to take your Bible, and
+wherever you find these words: "That it might be fulfilled," and
+"which "was spoken," turn to the Old Testament and find what was
+written, and you will see that it had not the slightest possible
+reference to the thing recounted in the New Testament&mdash;not the
+slightest.</p>
+<p>Let us take some of the prophecies of the Bible, and see how
+plain they are, and how beautiful they are. Let us see whether any
+human being can tell whether they have ever been fulfilled or
+not.</p>
+<p>Here is a vision of Ezekiel: "I looked, and be"hold a whirlwind
+came out of the north, a great "cloud, and a fire infolding itself,
+and a brightness "was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the
+"color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. Also "out of the
+midst thereof came the likeness of four "living creatures. And this
+was their appearance; "they had the likeness of a man. And every
+one "had four faces, and every one had four wings. "And their feet
+were straight feet; and the sole of "their feet was like the sole
+of a calf's foot: and they "sparkled like the color of burnished
+brass. And "they had the hands of a man under their wings on</p>
+<center>278</center>
+<p>"their four sides; and they four had their faces and "their
+wings. Their wings were joined one to "another; they turned not
+when-they went; they "went every one straight forward. As for the
+like"ness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, "and the
+face of a lion, on the right side: and they "four had the face of
+an ox on the left side; they "four also had the face of an
+eagle.</p>
+<p>"Thus were their faces: and their wings were "stretched upward;
+two wings of every one were "joined one to another, and two covered
+their bodies. "And they went every one straight forward: whither
+"the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not "when they
+went.</p>
+<p>"As for the likeness of the living creatures, their "appearance
+was like burning coals of fire, and like "the appearance of lamps:
+it went up and down "among the living creatures; and the fire was
+bright, "and out of the fire went forth lightning. And the "living
+creatures ran and returned as the appearance "of a flash of
+lightning.</p>
+<p>"Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one "wheel upon
+the earth by the living creatures, with "his four faces. The
+appearance of the wheels and "their work was like unto the color of
+a beryl: and</p>
+<center>279</center>
+<p>"they four had one likeness: and their appearance "and their
+work was as it were a wheel in the middle "of a wheel. When they
+went, they went upon "their four sides: and they turned not when
+they "went. As for their rings, they were so high that "they were
+dreadful; and their rings were full of "eyes round about them four.
+And when the living "creatures went, the wheels went by them: and
+"when the living creatures were lifted up from the "earth, the
+wheels were lifted up. Whithersoever "the spirit was to go, they
+went, thither was their "spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted
+up over "against them: for the spirit of the living creature "was
+in the wheels. When those went, these went; "and when those stood,
+these stood; and when those "were lifted up from the earth, the
+wheels were "lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the
+"living creature was in the wheels. And the like"ness of the
+firmament upon the heads of the living "creature was as the color
+of the terrible crystal, "stretched forth over their heads above.
+And under "the firmament were their wings straight, the one "toward
+the other; every one had two, which "covered on this side, and
+every one had two, "which covered on that side, their bodies."</p>
+<center>280</center>
+<p>Is such a vision a prophecy? Is it calculated to convey the
+slightest information? If so, what?</p>
+<p>So, the following vision of the prophet Daniel is exceedingly
+important and instructive:</p>
+<p>"Daniel spake and said: I saw in my vision by "night, and
+behold, the four winds of the heaven "strove upon the great sea.
+And four great beasts "came up from the sea, diverse one from
+another. "The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: "I
+beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it "was lifted up
+from the earth, and made stand upon "the feet as a man, and a man's
+heart was given to "it. And behold another beast, a second, like to
+a "bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had "three
+ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of "it: and they said
+thus unto it, Arise, devour much "flesh.</p>
+<p>"After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, "which had
+upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; "the beast had also four
+heads, and dominion was "given to it.</p>
+<p>"After this I saw in the night visions, and behold "a fourth
+beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong ex"ceedingly; and it had
+great iron teeth; it devoured "and brake in pieces, and stamped the
+residue with</p>
+<center>281</center>
+<p>"the feet of it; and it was diverse from all the beasts "that
+were before it, and it had ten horns. I con"sidered the horns, and,
+behold, there came up "among them another little horn, before whom
+"there were three of the first horns plucked up by "the roots: and
+behold, in this horn were eyes like "the eyes of man, and a mouth
+speaking great "things."</p>
+<p>I have no doubt that this prophecy has been literally fulfilled,
+but I am not at present in condition to give the time, place, or
+circumstances.</p>
+<p>A few moments ago, my attention was called to the following
+extract from <i>The New York Herald</i> of the thirteenth of March,
+instant:</p>
+<p>"At the Fifth Avenue Baptist Church, Dr. Armi"tage took as his
+text, 'A wheel in the middle of a "'wheel'&mdash;Ezekiel, i., 16.
+Here, said the preacher, "are three distinct visions in
+one&mdash;the living crea"tures, the moving wheels and the fiery
+throne. We "have time only to stop the wheels of this mystic
+"chariot of Jehovah, that we may hold holy converse "with Him who
+rides upon the wings of the wind. "In this vision of the prophet we
+have a minute and "amplified account of these magnificent symbols
+or "hieroglyphics, this wondrous machinery which de</p>
+<center>282</center>
+<p>"notes immense attributes and agencies and voli"tions, passing
+their awful and mysterious course of "power and intelligence in
+revolution after revolu"tion of the emblematical mechanism, in
+steady and "harmonious advancement to the object after which "they
+are reaching. We are compelled to look "upon the whole as
+symbolical of that tender and "endearing providence of which Jesus
+spoke when "He said, 'The very hairs of your head are num"*
+bered.'"</p>
+<p>Certainly, an ordinary person, not having been illuminated by
+the spirit of prophecy, would never have even dreamed that there
+was the slightest reference in Ezekiel's vision to anything like
+counting hairs. As a commentator, the Rev. Dr. Armitage has no
+equal; and, in my judgment, no rival. He has placed himself beyond
+the reach of ridicule. It is impossible to say anything about his
+sermon as laughable as his sermon.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have you no confidence in any prophecies? Do
+you take the ground that there never has been a human being who
+could predict the future?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I admit that a man of average intelli</p>
+<center>283</center>
+<p>gence knows that a certain course, when pursued long enough,
+will bring national disaster, and it is perfectly safe to predict
+the downfall of any and every country in the world. In my judgment,
+nations, like individuals, have an average life. Every nation is
+mortal. An immortal nation cannot be constructed of mortal
+individuals. A nation has a reason for existing, and that reason
+sustains the same relation to the nation that the acorn does to the
+oak. The nation will attain its growth&mdash;other things being
+equal. It will reach its manhood and its prime, but it will sink
+into old age, and at last must die. Probably, in a few thousand
+years, men will be able to calculate the average life of nations,
+as they now calculate the average life of persons. There has been
+no period since the morning of history until now, that men did not
+know of dead and dying nations. There has always been a national
+cemetery. Poland is dead, Turkey is dying. In every nation are the
+seeds of dissolution. Not only nations die, but races of men. A
+nation is born, becomes powerful, luxurious, at last grows weak, is
+overcome, dies, and another takes its place, In this way
+civilization and barbarism, like day and night, alternate through
+all of history's years.</p>
+<center>284</center>
+<p>In every nation there are at least two classes of men: First,
+the enthusiastic, the patriotic, who believe that the nation will
+live forever,&mdash;that its flag will float while the earth has
+air; Second, the owls and ravens and croakers, who are always
+predicting disaster, defeat, and death. To the last class belong
+the Jeremiahs, Ezekiels, and Isaiahs of the Jews. They were always
+predicting the downfall of Jerusalem. They revelled in defeat and
+captivity. They loved to paint the horrors of famine and war. For
+the most part, they were envious, hateful, misanthropic and
+unjust.</p>
+<p>There seems to have been a war between church and state. The
+prophets were endeavoring to preserve the ecclesiastical power.
+Every king who would listen to them, was chosen of God. He
+instantly became the model of virtue, and the prophets assured him
+that he was in the keeping of Jehovah. But if the king had a mind
+of his own, the prophets immediately called down upon him all the
+curses of heaven, and predicted the speedy destruction of his
+kingdom.</p>
+<p>If our own country should be divided, if an empire should rise
+upon the ruins of the Republic, it would be very easy to find that
+hundreds and thousands of</p>
+<center>285</center>
+<p>people had foretold that very thing. If you will read the
+political speeches of the last twenty-two years, you will find
+prophecies to fit any possible future state of affairs in our
+country. No matter what happens, you will find that somebody
+predicted it. If the city of London should lose her trade, if the
+Parliament house should become the abode of moles and bats, if "the
+New Zealander should sit upon the "ruins of London Bridge," all
+these things would be simply the fulfillment of prophecy. The fall
+of every nation under the sun has been predicted by hundreds and
+thousands of people.</p>
+<p>The prophecies of the Old Testament can be made to fit anything
+that may happen, or that may not happen. They will apply to the
+death of a king, or to the destruction of a people,&mdash;to the
+loss of commerce, or the discovery of a continent. Each prophecy is
+a jugglery of words, of figures, of symbols, so put together, so
+used, so interpreted, that they can mean anything, everything, or
+nothing.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you see anything "prophetic" in the fate of
+the Jewish people themselves? Do you think that God made the Jewish
+people wanderers, so that they might be perpetual witnesses to the
+truth of the Scriptures?</p>
+<center>286</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I cannot believe that an infinitely good God
+would make anybody a wanderer. Neither can I believe that he would
+keep millions of people without country and without home, and allow
+them to be persecuted for thousands of years, simply that they
+might be used as witnesses. Nothing could be more absurdly cruel
+than this.</p>
+<p>The Christians justify their treatment of the Jews on the ground
+that they are simply fulfilling prophecy. The Jews have suffered
+because of the horrid story that their ancestors crucified the Son
+of God. Christianity, coming into power, looked with horror upon
+the Jews, who denied the truth of the gospel. Each Jew was regarded
+as a dangerous witness against Christianity. The early Christians
+saw how necessary it was that the people who lived in Jerusalem at
+the time of Christ should be convinced that he was God, and should
+testify to the miracles he wrought. Whenever a Jew denied it, the
+Christian was filled with malignity and hatred, and immediately
+excited the prejudice of other Christians against the man simply
+because he was a Jew. They forgot, in their general hatred, that
+Mary, the mother of Christ, was a Jewess; that Christ himself was
+of Jewish blood; and with an inconsistency of which, of all</p>
+<center>287</center>
+<p>religions, Christianity alone could have been guilty, the Jew
+became an object of especial hatred and aversion.</p>
+<p>When we remember that Christianity pretends to be a religion of
+love and kindness, of charity and forgiveness, must not every
+intelligent man be shocked by the persecution of the Jews? Even
+now, in learned and cultivated Germany, the Jew is treated as
+though he were a wild beast. The reputation of this great people
+has been stained by a persecution springing only from ignorance and
+barbarian prejudice. So in Russia, the Christians are anxious to
+shed every drop of Jewish blood, and thousands are to-day fleeing
+from their homes to seek a refuge from Christian hate. And Mr.
+Talmage believes that all these persecutions are kept up by the
+perpetual intervention of God, in order that the homeless wanderers
+of the seed of Abraham may testify to the truth of the Old and New
+Testaments. He thinks that every burning Jewish home sheds light
+upon the gospel,&mdash;that every gash in Jewish flesh cries out in
+favor of the Bible,&mdash;that every violated Jewish maiden shows
+the interest that God still takes in the preservation of his Holy
+Word.</p>
+<p>I am endeavoring to do away with religious</p>
+<center>288</center>
+<p>prejudice. I wish to substitute humanity for superstition, the
+love of our fellow-men, for the fear of God. In the place of
+ignorant worship, let us put good deeds. We should be great enough
+and grand enough to know that the rights of the Jew are precisely
+the same as our own. We cannot trample upon their rights, without
+endangering our own; and no man who will take liberty from another,
+is great enough to enjoy liberty himself.</p>
+<p>Day by day Christians are laying the foundation of future
+persecution. In every Sunday school little children are taught that
+Jews killed the God of this universe. Their little hearts are
+filled with hatred against the Jewish people. They are taught as a
+part of the creed to despise the descendants of the only people
+with whom God is ever said to have had any conversation
+whatever.</p>
+<p>When we take into consideration what the Jewish people have
+suffered, it is amazing that every one of them does not hate with
+all his heart and soul and strength the entire Christian world. But
+in spite of the persecutions they have endured, they are to-day,
+where they are permitted to enjoy reasonable liberty, the most
+prosperous people on the globe. The idea that their condition
+shows, or tends to show, that</p>
+<center>289</center>
+<p>upon them abides the wrath of Jehovah, cannot be substantiated
+by the facts.</p>
+<p>The Jews to-day control the commerce of the world. They control
+the money of the world. It is for them to say whether nations shall
+or shall not go to war. They are the people of whom nations borrow
+money. To their offices kings come with their hats in their hands.
+Emperors beg them to discount their notes. Is all this a
+consequence of the wrath of God?</p>
+<p>We find upon our streets no Jewish beggars. It is a rare sight
+to find one of these people standing as a criminal before a court.
+They do not fill our almshouses, nor our penitentiaries, nor our
+jails. Intellectually and morally they are the equal of any people.
+They have become illustrious in every department of art and
+science. The old cry against them is at last perceived to be
+ignorant. Only a few years ago, Christians would rob a Jew, strip
+him of his possessions, steal his money, declare him an outcast,
+and drive him forth. Then they would point to him as a fulfillment
+of prophecy.</p>
+<p>If you wish to see the difference between some Jews and some
+Christians, compare the addresses of Felix Adler with the sermons
+of Mr. Talmage.</p>
+<center>290</center>
+<p>I cannot convince myself that an infinitely good and wise God
+holds a Jewish babe in the cradle of to-day responsible for the
+crimes of Caiaphas the high priest. I hardly think that an
+infinitely good being would pursue this little babe through all its
+life simply to get revenge on those who died two thousand years
+ago. An infinite being ought certainly to know that the child is
+not to blame; and an infinite being who does not know this, is not
+entitled to the love or adoration of any honest man.</p>
+<p>There is a strange inconsistency in what Mr. Talmage says. For
+instance, he finds great fault with me because I do not agree with
+the religious ideas of my father; and he finds fault equally with
+the Jews who do. The Jews who were true to the religion of their
+fathers, according to Mr. Talmage, have been made a by-word and a
+hissing and a reproach among all nations, and only those Jews were
+fortunate and blest who abandoned the religion of their fathers.
+The real reason for this inconsistency is this: Mr. Talmage really
+thinks that a man can believe as he wishes. He imagines that
+evidence depends simply upon volition; consequently, he holds every
+one responsible for his belief. Being satisfied that he has the
+exact truth in this matter, he meas</p>
+<center>291</center>
+<p>ures all other people by his standard, and if they fail by that
+measurement, he holds them personally responsible, and believes
+that his God does the same. If Mr. Talmage had been born in Turkey,
+he would in all probability have been a Mohammedan, and would now
+be denouncing some man who had denied the inspiration of the Koran,
+as the "champion blas"phemer" of Constantinople. Certainly he would
+have been, had his parents been Mohammedans; because, according to
+his doctrine, he would have been utterly lacking in respect and
+love for his father and mother had he failed to perpetuate their
+errors. So, had he been born in Utah, of Mormon parents, he would
+now have been a defender of polygamy. He would not "run the
+ploughshare of contempt "through the graves of his parents," by
+taking the ground that polygamy is wrong.</p>
+<p>I presume that all of Mr. Talmage's forefathers were not
+Presbyterians. There must have been a time when one of his
+progenitors left the faith of his father, and joined the
+Presbyterian Church. According to the reasoning of Mr. Talmage,
+that particular progenitor was an exceedingly bad man; but had it
+not been for the crime of that bad man, Mr. Talmage might not now
+have been on the road to heaven.</p>
+<center>292</center>
+<p>I hardly think that all the inventors, the thinkers, the
+philosophers, the discoverers, dishonored their parents. Fathers
+and mothers have been made immortal by such sons. And yet these
+sons demonstrated the errors of their parents. A good father wishes
+to be excelled by his children.</p>
+<a name="link0008" id="link0008"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>SIXTH INTERVIEW.</h2>
+<p><i>It is a contradiction in terms and ideas to call anything a
+revelation that comes to us at secondhand, either verbally or in
+writing. Revelation is necessarily limited to the first
+communication&mdash; after this, it is only an account of something
+which that person says was a revelation made to him; and though he
+may find himself obliged to believe it, it cannot be incumbent on
+me to believe it in the same manner; for it was not a revelation
+made to me, and I have only his word for it that it was made to
+him.&mdash;Thomas Paine.</i></p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of the arguments presented by
+Mr. Talmage in favor of the inspiration of the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Mr. Talmage takes the ground that there are more
+copies of the Bible than of any other book, and that consequently
+it must be inspired.</p>
+<p>It seems to me that this kind of reasoning proves entirely too
+much. If the Bible is the inspired word of God, it was certainly
+just as true when there was only one copy, as it is to-day; and the
+facts contained in it were just as true before they were</p>
+<center>296</center>
+<p>written, as afterwards. We all know that it is a fact in human
+nature, that a man can tell a falsehood so often that he finally
+believes it himself; but I never suspected, until now, that a
+mistake could be printed enough times to make it true.</p>
+<p>There may have been a time, and probably there was, when there
+were more copies of the Koran than of the Bible. When most
+Christians were utterly ignorant, thousands of Moors were educated;
+and it is well known that the arts and sciences flourished in
+Mohammedan countries in a far greater degree than in Christian.
+Now, at that time, it may be that there were more copies of the
+Koran than of the Bible. If some enterprising Mohammedan had only
+seen the force of such a fact, he might have established the
+inspiration of the Koran beyond a doubt; or, if it had been found
+by actual count that the Koran was a little behind, a few years of
+industry spent in the multiplication of copies, might have
+furnished the evidence of its inspiration.</p>
+<p>Is it not simply amazing that a doctor of divinity, a
+Presbyterian clergyman, in this day and age, should seriously rely
+upon the number of copies of the Bible to substantiate the
+inspiration of that book? Is it possible to conceive of anything
+more fig-leaflessly</p>
+<center>297</center>
+<p>absurd? If there is anything at all in this argument, it is,
+that all books are true in proportion to the number of copies that
+exist. Of course, the same rule will work with newspapers; so that
+the newspaper having the largest circulation can consistently claim
+infallibility. Suppose that an exceedingly absurd statement should
+appear in <i>The New York Herald</i>, and some one should denounce
+it as utterly without any foundation in fact or probability; what
+would Mr. Talmage think if the editor of the Herald, as an evidence
+of the truth of the statement, should rely on the fact that his
+paper had the largest circulation of any in the city? One would
+think that the whole church had acted upon the theory that a
+falsehood repeated often enough was as good as the truth.</p>
+<p>Another evidence brought forward by the reverend gentleman to
+prove the inspiration of the Scriptures, is the assertion that if
+Congress should undertake to pass a law to take the Bible from the
+people, thirty, millions would rise in defence of that book.</p>
+<p>This argument also seems to me to prove too much, and as a
+consequence, to prove nothing. If Congress should pass a law
+prohibiting the reading of Shakespeare, every American would rise
+in defence of his right to read the works of the greatest man</p>
+<center>298</center>
+<p>this world has known. Still, that would not even tend to show
+that Shakespeare was inspired. The fact is, the American people
+would not allow Congress to pass a law preventing them from reading
+any good book. Such action would not prove the book to be inspired;
+it would prove that the American people believe in liberty.</p>
+<p>There are millions of people in Turkey who would peril their
+lives in defence of the Koran. A fact like this does not prove the
+truth of the Koran; it simply proves what Mohammedans think of that
+book, and what they are willing to do for its preservation.</p>
+<p>It can not be too often repeated, that martyrdom does not prove
+the truth of the thing for which the martyr dies; it only proves
+the sincerity of the martyr and the cruelty of his murderers. No
+matter how many people regard the Bible as inspired,&mdash;that
+fact furnishes no evidence that it is inspired. Just as many people
+have regarded other books as inspired; just as many millions have
+been deluded about the inspiration of books ages and ages before
+Christianity was born.</p>
+<p>The simple belief of one man, or of millions of men, is no
+evidence to another. Evidence must be based, not upon the belief of
+other people, but upon facts. A believer may state the facts upon
+which his belief</p>
+<center>299</center>
+<p>is founded, and the person to whom he states them gives them the
+weight that according to the construction and constitution of his
+mind he must. But simple, bare belief is not testimony. We should
+build upon facts, not upon beliefs of others, nor upon the shifting
+sands of public opinion. So much for this argument.</p>
+<p>The next point made by the reverend gentleman is, that an
+infidel cannot be elected to any office in the United States, in
+any county, precinct, or ward.</p>
+<p>For the sake of the argument, let us admit that this is true.
+What does it prove? There was a time when no Protestant could have
+been elected to any office. What did that prove? There was a time
+when no Presbyterian could have been chosen to fill any public
+station. What did that prove? The same may be said of the members
+of each religious denomination. What does that prove?</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage says that Christianity must be true, because an
+infidel cannot be elected to office. Now, suppose that enough
+infidels should happen to settle in one precinct to elect one of
+their own number to office; would that prove that Christianity was
+not true in that precinct? There was a time when no man could have
+been elected to any office, who in</p>
+<center>300</center>
+<p>sisted on the rotundity of the earth; what did that prove? There
+was a time when no man who denied the existence of witches,
+wizards, spooks and devils, could hold any position of honor; what
+did that prove? There was a time when an abolitionist could not be
+elected to office in any State in this Union; what did that prove?
+There was a time when they were not allowed to express their honest
+thoughts; what does that prove? There was a time when a Quaker
+could not have been elected to any office; there was a time in the
+history of this country when but few of them were allowed to live;
+what does that prove? Is it necessary, in order to ascertain the
+truth of Christianity, to look over the election returns? Is
+"inspiration" a question to be settled by the ballot? I admit that
+it was once, in the first place, settled that way. I admit that
+books were voted in and voted out, and that the Bible was finally
+formed in accordance with a vote; but does Mr. Talmage insist that
+the question is not still open? Does he not know, that a fact
+cannot by any possibility be affected by opinion? We make laws for
+the whole people, by the whole people. We agree that a majority
+shall rule, but nobody ever pretended that a question of taste
+could be settled by an appeal</p>
+<center>301</center>
+<p>to majorities, or that a question of logic could be affected by
+numbers. In the world of thought, each man is an absolute monarch,
+each brain is a kingdom, that cannot be invaded even by the tyranny
+of majorities.</p>
+<p>No man can avoid the intellectual responsibility of deciding for
+himself.</p>
+<p>Suppose that the Christian religion had been put to vote in
+Jerusalem? Suppose that the doctrine of the "fall" had been settled
+in Athens, by an appeal to the people, would Mr. Talmage have been
+willing to abide by their decision? If he settles the inspiration
+of the Bible by a popular vote, he must settle the meaning of the
+Bible by the same means. There are more Methodists than
+Presbyterians&mdash;why does the gentleman remain a Presbyterian?
+There are more Buddhists than Christians&mdash;why does he vote
+against majorities? He will remember that Christianity was once
+settled by a popular vote&mdash;that the divinity of Christ was
+submitted to the people, and the people said: "Crucify him!"</p>
+<p>The next, and about the strongest, argument Mr. Talmage makes
+is, that I am an infidel because I was defeated for Governor of
+Illinois.</p>
+<p>When put in plain English, his statement is this:</p>
+<center>302</center>
+<p>that I was defeated because I was an infidel, and that I am an
+infidel because I was defeated. This, I believe, is called
+reasoning in a circle. The truth is, that a good many people did
+object to me because I was an infidel, and the probability is, that
+if I had denied being an infidel, I might have obtained an office.
+The wonderful part is, that any Christian should deride me because
+I preferred honor to political success. He who dishonors himself
+for the sake of being honored by others, will find that two
+mistakes have been made&mdash;one by himself, and the other, by the
+people.</p>
+<p>I presume that Mr.Talmage really thinks that I was extremely
+foolish to avow my real opinions. After all, men are apt to judge
+others somewhat by themselves. According to him, I made the mistake
+of preserving my manhood and losing an office. Now, if I had in
+fact been an infidel, and had denied it, for the sake of position,
+then I admit that every Christian might have pointed at me the
+finger of contempt. But I was an infidel, and admitted it. Surely,
+I should not be held in contempt by Christians for having made the
+admission. I was not a believer in the Bible, and I said so. I was
+not a Christian, and I said so. I was not willing to receive the
+support of any</p>
+<center>303</center>
+<p>man under a false impression. I thought it better to be honestly
+beaten, than to dishonestly succeed. According to the ethics of Mr.
+Talmage I made a mistake, and this mistake is brought forward as
+another evidence of the inspiration of the Scriptures. If I had
+only been elected Governor of Illinois,&mdash;that is to say, if I
+had been a successful hypocrite, I might now be basking in the
+sunshine of this gentleman's respect. I preferred to tell the
+truth&mdash;to be an honest man,&mdash;and I have never regretted
+the course I pursued.</p>
+<p>There are many men now in office who, had they pursued a nobler
+course, would be private citizens. Nominally, they are Christians;
+actually, they are nothing; and this is the combination that
+generally insures political success.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage is exceedingly proud of the fact that Christians
+will not vote for infidels. In other words, he does not believe
+that in our Government the church has been absolutely divorced from
+the state. He believes that it is still the Christian's duty to
+make the religious test. Probably he wishes to get his God into the
+Constitution. My position is this:</p>
+<p>Religion is an individual matter&mdash;a something for each
+individual to settle for himself, and with which</p>
+<center>304</center>
+<p>no other human being has any concern, provided the religion of
+each human being allows liberty to every other. When called upon to
+vote for men to fill the offices of this country, I do not inquire
+as to the religion of the candidates. It is none of my business. I
+ask the questions asked by Jefferson: "Is he "honest; is he
+capable?" It makes no difference to me, if he is willing that
+others should be free, what creed he may profess. The moment I
+inquire into his religious belief, I found a little inquisition of
+my own; I repeat, in a small way, the errors of the past, and
+reproduce, in so far as I am capable, the infamy of the ignorant
+orthodox years.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage will accept my thanks for his frankness. I now know
+what controls a Presbyterian when he casts his vote. He cares
+nothing for the capacity, nothing for the fitness, of the candidate
+to discharge the duties of the office to which he aspires; he
+simply asks: Is he a Presbyterian, is he a Protestant, does he
+believe our creed? and then, no matter how ignorant he may be, how
+utterly unfit, he receives the Presbyterian vote. According to Mr.
+Talmage, he would vote for a Catholic who, if he had the power,
+would destroy all liberty of conscience, rather than vote for an
+infidel who, had he the power, would</p>
+<center>305</center>
+<p>destroy all the religious tyranny of the world, and allow every
+human being to think for himself, and to worship God, or not, as
+and how he pleased.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage makes the serious mistake of placing the Bible above
+the laws and Constitution of his country. He places Jehovah above
+humanity. Such men are not entirely safe citizens of any republic.
+And yet, I am in favor of giving to such men all the liberty I ask
+for myself, trusting to education and the spirit of progress to
+overcome any injury they may do, or seek to do.</p>
+<p>When this country was founded, when the Constitution was
+adopted, the churches agreed to let the State alone. They agreed
+that all citizens should have equal civil rights. Nothing could be
+more dangerous to the existence of this Republic than to introduce
+religion into politics. The American theory is, that governments
+are founded, not by gods, but by men, and that the right to govern
+does not come from God, but "from the consent of the governed." Our
+fathers concluded that the people were sufficiently intelligent to
+take care of themselves&mdash;to make good laws and to execute
+them. Prior to that time, all authority was supposed to come from
+the clouds. Kings were set upon thrones by God, and it was the</p>
+<center>306</center>
+<p>business of the people simply to submit. In all really civilized
+countries, that doctrine has been abandoned. The source of
+political power is here, not in heaven. We are willing that those
+in heaven should control affairs there; we are willing that the
+angels should have a government to suit themselves; but while we
+live here, and while our interests are upon this earth, we propose
+to make and execute our own laws.</p>
+<p>If the doctrine of Mr. Talmage is the true doctrine, if no man
+should be voted for unless he is a Christian, then no man should
+vote unless he is a Christian. It will not do to say that sinners
+may vote, that an infidel may be the repository of political power,
+but must not be voted for. A decent Christian who is not willing
+that an infidel should be elected to an office, would not be
+willing to be elected to an office by infidel votes. If infidels
+are too bad to be voted for, they are certainly not good enough to
+vote, and no Christian should be willing to represent such an
+infamous constituency.</p>
+<p>If the political theory of Mr. Talmage is carried out, of course
+the question will arise in a little while, What is a Christian? It
+will then be necessary to write a creed to be subscribed by every
+person before he is fit to vote or to be voted for. This of
+course</p>
+<center>307</center>
+<p>must be done by the State, and must be settled, under our form
+of government, by a majority vote. Is Mr. Talmage willing that the
+question, What is Christianity? should be so settled? Will he
+pledge himself in advance to subscribe to such a creed? Of course
+he will not. He will insist that he has the right to read the Bible
+for himself, and that he must be bound by his own conscience. In
+this he would be right. If he has the right to read the Bible for
+himself, so have I. If he is to be bound by his conscience, so am
+I. If he honestly believes the Bible to be true, he must say so, in
+order to preserve his manhood; and if I honestly believe it to be
+uninspired,&mdash; filled with mistakes,&mdash;I must say so, or
+lose my manhood. How infamous I would be should I endeavor to
+deprive him of his vote, or of his right to be voted for, because
+he had been true to his conscience! And how infamous he is to try
+to deprive me of the right to vote, or to be voted for, because I
+am true to my conscience!</p>
+<p>When we were engaged in civil war, did Mr. Talmage object to any
+man's enlisting in the ranks who was not a Christian? Was he
+willing, at that time, that sinners should vote to keep our flag in
+heaven? Was he willing that the "unconverted" should cover</p>
+<center>308</center>
+<p>the fields of victory with their corpses, that this nation might
+not die? At the same time, Mr. Talmage knew that every
+"unconverted" soldier killed, went down to eternal fire. Does Mr.
+Talmage believe that it is the duty of a man to fight for a
+government in which he has no rights? Is the man who shoulders his
+musket in the defence of human freedom good enough to cast a
+ballot? There is in the heart of this priest the safne hatred of
+real liberty that drew the sword of persecution, that built
+dungeons, that forged chains and made instruments of torture.</p>
+<p>Nobody, with the exception of priests, would be willing to trust
+the liberties of this country in the hands of any church. In order
+to show the political estimation in which the clergy are held, in
+order to show the confidence the people at large have in the
+sincerity and wisdom of the clergy, it is sufficient to state, that
+no priest, no bishop, could by any possibility be elected President
+of the United States. No party could carry that load. A fear would
+fall upon the mind and heart of every honest man that this country
+was about to drift back to the Middle Ages, and that the old
+battles were to be refought. If the bishop running for President
+was of the Methodist Church, every other church would oppose him.
+If</p>
+<center>309</center>
+<p>he was a Catholic, the Protestants would as a body combine
+against him. Why? The churches have no confidence in each other.
+Why? Because they are acquainted with each other.</p>
+<p>As a matter of fact, the infidel has a thousand times more
+reason to vote against the Christian, than the Christian has to
+vote against the infidel. The Christian believes in a book superior
+to the Constitution&mdash;superior to all Constitutions and all
+laws. The infidel believes that the Constitution and laws are
+superior to any book. He is not controlled by any power beyond the
+seas or above the clouds. He does not receive his orders from Rome,
+or Sinai. He receives them from his fellow-citizens, legally and
+constitutionally expressed. The Christian believes in a power
+greater than man, to which, upon the peril of eternal pain, he must
+bow. His allegiance, to say the best of it, is divided. The
+Christian puts the fortune of his own soul over and above the
+temporal welfare of the entire world; the infidel puts the good of
+mankind here and now, beyond and over all.</p>
+<p>There was a time in New England when only church members were
+allowed to vote, and it may be instructive to state the fact that
+during that time Quakers were hanged, women were stripped, tied
+to</p>
+<center>310</center>
+<p>carts, and whipped from town to town, and their babes sold into
+slavery, or exchanged for rum. Now in that same country, thousands
+and thousands of infidels vote, and yet the laws are nearer just,
+women are not whipped and children are not sold.</p>
+<p>If all the convicts in all the penitentiaries of the United
+States could be transported to some island in the sea, and there
+allowed to make a government for themselves, they would pass better
+laws than John Calvin did in Geneva. They would have clearer and
+better views of the rights of men, than unconvicted Christians used
+to have. I do not say that these convicts are better people, but I
+do say that, in my judgment, they would make better laws. They
+certainly could not make worse.</p>
+<p>If these convicts were taken from the prisons of the United
+States, they would not dream of uniting church and state. They
+would have no religious test. They would allow every man to vote
+and to be voted for, no matter what his religious views might be.
+They would not dream of whipping Quakers, of burning Unitarians, of
+imprisoning or burning Universalists or infidels. They would allow
+all the people to guess for themselves. Some of these convicts, of
+course, would believe in the old ideas, and would insist upon the
+suppression of free thought. Those coming from Delaware would
+probably repeat with great gusto the opinions of Justice Comegys,
+and insist that the whipping-post was the handmaid of
+Christianity.</p>
+<p>It would be hard to conceive of a much worse government than
+that founded by the Puritans. They took the Bible for the
+foundation of their political structure. They copied the laws given
+to Moses from Sinai, and the result was one of the worst
+governments that ever disgraced this world. They believed the Old
+Testament to be inspired. They believed that Jehovah made laws for
+all people and for all time. They had not learned the hypocrisy
+that believes and avoids. They did not say: This law was once just,
+but is now unjust; it was once good, but now it is infamous; it was
+given by God once, but now it can only be obeyed by the devil. They
+had not reached the height of biblical exegesis on which we find
+the modern theologian perched, and who tells us that Jehovah has
+reformed. The Puritans were consistent. They did what people must
+do who honestly believe in the inspiration of the Old Testament. If
+God gave laws from Sinai what right have we to repeal them?</p>
+<center>312</center>
+<p>As people have gained confidence in each other, they have lost
+confidence in the sacred Scriptures. We know now that the Bible can
+not be used as the foundation of government. It is capable of too
+many meanings. Nobody can find out exactly what it upholds, what it
+permits, what it denounces, what it denies. These things depend
+upon what part you read. If it is all true, it upholds everything
+bad and denounces everything good, and it also denounces the bad
+and upholds the good. Then there are passages where the good is
+denounced and the bad commanded; so that any one can go to the
+Bible and find some text, some passage, to uphold anything he may
+desire. If he wishes to enslave his fellowmen, he will find
+hundreds of passages in his favor. If he wishes to be a polygamist,
+he can find his authority there. If he wishes to make war, to
+exterminate his neighbors, there his warrant can be found. If, on
+the other hand, he is oppressed himself, and wishes to make war
+upon his king, he can find a battle-cry. And if the king wishes to
+put him down, he can find text for text on the other side. So, too,
+upon all questions of reform. The teetotaler goes there to get his
+verse, and the moderate drinker finds within the sacred lids his
+best excuse.</p>
+<center>313</center>
+<p>Most intelligent people are now convinced that the bible is not
+a guide; that in reading it you must exercise your reason; that you
+can neither safely reject nor accept all; that he who takes one
+passage for a staff, trips upon another; that while one text is a
+light, another blows it out; that it is such a mingling of rocks
+and quicksands, such a labyrinth of clews and snares&mdash;so few
+flowers among so many nettles and thorns, that it misleads rather
+than directs, and taken altogether, is a hindrance and not a
+help.</p>
+<p>Another important point made by Mr. Talmage is, that if the
+Bible is thrown away, we will have nothing left to swear witnesses
+on, and that consequently the administration of justice will become
+impossible.</p>
+<p>There was a time when the Bible did not exist, and if Mr.
+Talmage is correct, of course justice was impossible then, and
+truth must have been a stranger to human lips. How can we depend
+upon the testimony of those who wrote the Bible, as there was no
+Bible in existence while they were writing, and consequently there
+was no way to take their testimony, and we have no account of their
+having been sworn on the Bible after they got it finished. It is
+extremely sad to think that all the nations of antiquity were
+left</p>
+<center>314</center>
+<p>entirely without the means of eliciting truth. No wonder that
+Justice was painted blindfolded.</p>
+<p>What perfect fetichism it is, to imagine that a man will tell
+the truth simply because he has kissed an old piece of sheepskin
+stained with the saliva of all classes. A farce of this kind adds
+nothing to the testimony of an honest man; it simply allows a rogue
+to give weight to his false testimony. This is really the only
+result that can be accomplished by kissing the Bible. A desperate
+villain, for the purpose of getting revenge, or making money, will
+gladly go through the ceremony, and ignorant juries and
+superstitious judges will be imposed upon. The whole system of
+oaths is false, and does harm instead of good. Let every man walk
+into court and tell his story, and let the truth of the story be
+judged by its reasonableness, taking into consideration the
+character of the witness, the interest he has, and the position he
+occupies in the controversy, and then let it be the business of the
+jury to ascertain the real truth &mdash;to throw away the
+unreasonable and the impossible, and make up their verdict only
+upon what they believe to be reasonable and true. An honest man
+does not need the oath, and a rascal uses it simply to accomplish
+his purpose. If the history of courts</p>
+<center>315</center>
+<p>proved that every man, after kissing the Bible, told the truth,
+and that those who failed to kiss it sometimes lied, I should be in
+favor of swearing all people on the Bible; but the experience of
+every lawyer is, that kissing the Bible is not always the preface
+of a true story. It is often the ceremonial embroidery of a
+falsehood.</p>
+<p>If there is an infinite God who attends to the affairs of men,
+it seems to me almost a sacrilege to publicly appeal to him in
+every petty trial. If one will go into any court, and notice the
+manner in which oaths are administered,&mdash;the utter lack of
+solemnity&mdash;the matter-of-course air with which the whole thing
+is done, he will be convinced that it is a form of no importance.
+Mr. Talmage would probably agree with the judge of whom the
+following story is told:</p>
+<p>A witness was being sworn. The judge noticed that he was not
+holding up his hand. He said to the clerk: "Let the witness hold up
+his right hand." "His right arm was shot off," replied the clerk.
+"Let "him hold up his left, then." "That was shot off, too, "your
+honor." "Well, then, let him raise one foot; "no man can be sworn
+in this court without holding "something up."</p>
+<p>My own opinion is, that if every copy of the Bible in the world
+were destroyed, there would be some way to ascertain the truth in
+judicial proceedings; and any other book would do just as well to
+swear witnesses upon, or a block in the shape of a book covered
+with some kind of calfskin could do equally well, or just the
+calfskin would do. Nothing is more laughable than the performance
+of this ceremony, and I have never seen in court one calf kissing
+the skin of another, that I did not feel humiliated that such
+things were done in the name of Justice.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage has still another argument in favor of the
+preservation of the Bible. He wants to know what book could take
+its place on the centretable.</p>
+<p>I admit that there is much force in this. Suppose we all
+admitted the Bible to be an uninspired book, it could still be kept
+on the centre-table. It would be just as true then as it is now.
+Inspiration can not add anything to a fact; neither can inspiration
+make the immoral moral, the unjust just, or the cruel merciful. If
+it is a fact that God established human slavery, that does not
+prove slavery to be right; it simply shows that God was wrong. If I
+have the right to use my reason in determining whether the Bible
+is</p>
+<center>317</center>
+<p>inspired or not, and if in accordance with my reason I conclude
+that it is inspired, I have still the right to use my reason in
+determining whether the commandments of God are good or bad. Now,
+suppose we take from the Bible every word upholding slavery, every
+passage in favor of polygamy, every verse commanding soldiers to
+kill women and children, it would be just as fit for the
+centre-table as now. Suppose every impure word was taken from it;
+suppose that the history of Tamar was left out, the biography of
+Lot, and all other barbarous accounts of a barbarous people, it
+would look just as well upon the centretable as now.</p>
+<p>Suppose that we should become convinced that the writers of the
+New Testament were mistaken as to the eternity of punishment, or
+that all the passages now relied upon to prove the existence of
+perdition were shown to be interpolations, and were thereupon
+expunged, would not the book be dearer still to every human being
+with a heart? I would like to see every good passage in the Bible
+preserved. I would like to see, with all these passages from the
+Bible, the loftiest sentiments from all other books that have ever
+been uttered by men in all ages and of all races, bound in one
+volume, and to see that</p>
+<center>318</center>
+<p>volume, filled with the greatest, the purest and the best,
+become the household book.</p>
+<p>The average Bible, on the average centre-table, is about as much
+used as though it were a solid block. It is scarcely ever opened,
+and people who see its covers every day are unfamiliar with its
+every page.</p>
+<p>I admit that some things have happened somewhat hard to explain,
+and tending to show that the Bible is no ordinary book. I heard a
+story, not long ago, bearing upon this very subject.</p>
+<p>A man was a member of the church, but after a time, having had
+bad luck in business affairs, became somewhat discouraged. Not
+feeling able to contribute his share to the support of the church,
+he ceased going to meeting, and finally became an average sinner.
+His bad luck pursued him until he found himself and his family
+without even a crust to eat. At this point, his wife told him that
+she believed they were suffering from a visitation of God, and
+begged him to restore family worship, and see if God would not do
+something for them. Feeling that he could not possibly make matters
+worse, he took the Bible from its resting place on a shelf where it
+had quietly slumbered and collected the dust of many months, and
+gathered his family about him.</p>
+<center>319</center>
+<p>He opened the sacred volume, and to his utter astonishment,
+there, between the divine leaves, was a ten-dollar bill. He
+immediately dropped on his knees. His wife dropped on hers, and the
+children on theirs, and with streaming eyes they returned thanks to
+God. He rushed to the butcher's and bought some steak, to the
+baker's and bought some bread, to the grocer's and got some eggs
+and butter and tea, and joyfully hastened home. The supper was
+cooked, it was on the table, grace was said, and every face was
+radiant with joy. Just at that happy moment a knock was heard, the
+door was opened, and a policeman entered and arrested the father
+for passing counterfeit money.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage is also convinced that the Bible is inspired and
+should be preserved because there is no other book that &agrave;
+mother could give her son as he leaves the old home to make his way
+in the world.</p>
+<p>Thousands and thousands of mothers have presented their sons
+with Bibles without knowing really what the book contains. They
+simply followed the custom, and the sons as a rule honored the
+Bible, not because they knew anything of it, but because it was a
+gift from mother. But surely, if all the passages upholding
+polygamy were out, the mother would give</p>
+<center>320</center>
+<p>the book to her son just as readily, and he would receive it
+just as joyfully. If there were not one word in it tending to
+degrade the mother, the gift would certainly be as appropriate. The
+fact that mothers have presented Bibles to their sons does not
+prove that the book is inspired. The most that can be proved by
+this fact is that the mothers believed it to be inspired. It does
+not even tend to show what the book is, neither does it tend to
+establish the truth of one miracle recorded upon its pages. We
+cannot believe that fire refused to burn, simply because the
+statement happens to be in a book presented to a son by his mother,
+and if all the mothers of the entire world should give Bibles to
+all their children, this would not prove that it was once right to
+murder mothers, or to enslave mothers, or to sell their babes.</p>
+<p>The inspiration of the Bible is not a question of natural
+affection. It can not be decided by the love a mother bears her
+son. It is a question of fact, to be substantiated like other
+facts. If the Turkish mother should give a copy of the Koran to her
+son, I would still have my doubts about the inspiration of that
+book; and if some Turkish soldier saved his life by having in his
+pocket a copy of the Koran that accidentally stopped a bullet
+just</p>
+<center>321</center>
+<p>opposite his heart, I should still deny that Mohammed was a
+prophet of God.</p>
+<p>Nothing can be more childish than to ascribe mysterious powers
+to inanimate objects. To imagine that old rags made into pulp,
+manufactured into paper, covered with words, and bound with the
+skin of a calf or a sheep, can have any virtues when thus put
+together that did not belong to the articles out of which the book
+was constructed, is of course infinitely absurd.</p>
+<p>In the days of slavery, negroes used to buy dried roots of other
+negroes, and put these roots in their pockets, so that a whipping
+would not give them pain. Kings have bought diamonds to give them
+luck. Crosses and scapularies are still worn for the purpose of
+affecting the inevitable march of events. People still imagine that
+a verse in the Bible can step in between a cause and its effect;
+really believe that an amulet, a charm, the bone of some saint, a
+piece of a cross, a little image of the Virgin, a picture of a
+priest, will affect the weather, will delay frost, will prevent
+disease, will insure safety at sea, and in some cases prevent
+hanging. The banditti of Italy have great confidence in these
+things, and whenever they start upon an expedition of theft and
+plunder, they</p>
+<center>322</center>
+<p>take images and pictures of saints with them, such as have been
+blest by a priest or pope. They pray sincerely to the Virgin, to
+give them luck, and see not the slightest inconsistency in
+appealing to all the saints in the calendar to assist them in
+robbing honest people.</p>
+<p>Edmund About tells a story that illustrates the belief of the
+modern Italian. A young man was gambling. Fortune was against him.
+In the room was a little picture representing the Virgin and her
+child. Before this picture he crossed himself, and asked the
+assistance of the child. Again he put down his money and again
+lost. Returning to the picture, he told the child that he had lost
+all but one piece, that he was about to hazard that, and made a
+very urgent request that he would favor him with divine assistance.
+He put down the last piece. He lost. Going to the picture and
+shaking his fist at the child, he cried out: "Miserable bambino, I
+am glad they crucified you!"</p>
+<p>The confidence that one has in an image, in a relic, in a book,
+comes from the same source,&mdash;fetichism. To ascribe
+supernatural virtues to the skin of a snake, to a picture, or to a
+bound volume, is intellectually the same.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage has still another argument in favor</p>
+<center>323</center>
+<p>of the inspiration of the Scriptures. He takes the ground that
+the Bible must be inspired, because so many people believe it.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage should remember that a scientific fact does not
+depend upon the vote of numbers;&mdash; it depends simply upon
+demonstration; it depends upon intelligence and investigation, not
+upon an ignorant multitude; it appeals to the highest, instead of
+to the lowest. Nothing can be settled by popular prejudice.</p>
+<p>According to Mr. Talmage, there are about three hundred million
+Christians in the world. Is this true? In all countries claiming to
+be Christian&mdash;including all of civilized Europe, Russia in
+Asia, and every country on the Western hemisphere, we have nearly
+four hundred millions of people. Mr. Talmage claims that three
+hundred millions are Christians. I suppose he means by this, that
+if all should perish tonight, about three hundred millions would
+wake up in heaven&mdash;having lived and died good and consistent
+Christians.</p>
+<p>There are in Russia about eighty millions of people &mdash;how
+many Christians? I admit that they have recently given more
+evidence of orthodox Christianity than formerly. They have been
+murdering old men;</p>
+<center>324</center>
+<p>they have thrust daggers into the breasts of women; they have
+violated maidens&mdash;because they were Jews. Thousands and
+thousands are sent each year to the mines of Siberia, by the
+Christian government of Russia. Girls eighteen years of age, for
+having expressed a word in favor of human liberty, are to-day
+working like beasts of burden, with chains upon their limbs and
+with the marks of whips upon their backs. Russia, of course, is
+considered by Mr. Talmage as a Christian country&mdash;a country
+utterly destitute of liberty&mdash;without freedom of the press,
+without freedom of speech, where every mouth is locked and every
+tongue a prisoner&mdash;a country filled with victims, soldiers,
+spies, thieves and executioners. What would Russia be, in the
+opinion of Mr. Talmage, but for Christianity? How could it be
+worse, when assassins are among the best people in it? The truth
+is, that the people in Russia, to-day, who are in favor of human
+liberty, are not Christians. The men willing to sacrifice their
+lives for the good of others, are not believers in the Christian
+religion. The men who wish to break chains are infidels; the men
+who make chains are Christians. Every good and sincere Catholic of
+the Greek Church is a bad citizen, an enemy of progress, a foe
+of</p>
+<center>325</center>
+<p>human liberty. Yet Mr. Talmage regards Russia as a Christian
+country.</p>
+<p>The sixteen millions of people in Spain are claimed as
+Christians. Spain, that for centuries was the assassin of human
+rights; Spain, that endeavored to spread Christianity by flame and
+fagot; Spain, the soil where the Inquisition flourished, where
+bigotry grew, and where cruelty was worship,&mdash;where murder was
+prayer. I admit that Spain is a Christian nation. I admit that
+infidelity has gained no foothold beyond the Pyrenees. The
+Spaniards are orthodox. They believe in the inspiration of the Old
+and New Testaments. They have no doubts about miracles&mdash;no
+doubts about heaven, no doubts about hell. I admit that the
+priests, the highwaymen, the bishops and thieves, are equally true
+believers. The man who takes your purse on the highway, and the
+priest who forgives the robber, are alike orthodox.</p>
+<p>It gives me pleasure, however, to say that even in Spain there
+is a dawn. Some great men, some men of genius, are protesting
+against the tyranny of Catholicism. Some men have lost confidence
+in the cathedral, and are beginningto ask the State to erect the
+schoolhouse. They are beginning to suspect</p>
+<center>326</center>
+<p>that priests are for the most part impostors and plunderers.</p>
+<p>According to Mr. Talmage, the twenty-eight millions in Italy are
+Christians. There the Christian Church was early established, and
+the popes are today the successors of St. Peter. For hundreds and
+hundreds of years, Italy was the beggar of the world, and to her,
+from every land, flowed streams of gold and silver. The country was
+covered with convents, and monasteries, and churches, and
+cathedrals filled with monks and nuns. Its roads were crowded with
+pilgrims, and its dust was on the feet of the world. What has
+Christianity done for Italy&mdash;Italy, its soil a blessing, its
+sky a smile&mdash;Italy, with memories great enough to kindle the
+fires of enthusiasm in any human breast?</p>
+<p>Had it not been for a few Freethinkers, for a few infidels, for
+such men as Garibaldi and Mazzini, the heaven of Italy would still
+have been without a star.</p>
+<p>I admit that Italy, with its popes and bandits, with its
+superstition and ignorance, with its sanctified beggars, is a
+Christian nation; but in a little while,&mdash; in a few
+days,&mdash;when according to the prophecy of Garibaldi priests,
+with spades in their hands, will dig ditches to drain the Pontine
+marshes; in a little</p>
+<center>327</center>
+<p>while, when the pope leaves the Vatican, and seeks the
+protection of a nation he has denounced,&mdash;asking alms of
+intended victims; when the nuns shall marry, and the monasteries
+shall become factories, and the whirl of wheels shall take the
+place of drowsy prayers &mdash;then, and not until then, will Italy
+be,&mdash;not a Christian nation, but great, prosperous, and
+free.</p>
+<p>In Italy, Giordano Bruno was burned. Some day, his monument will
+rise above the cross of Rome.</p>
+<p>We have in our day one example,&mdash;and so far as I know,
+history records no other,&mdash;of the resurrection of a nation.
+Italy has been called from the grave of superstition. She is "the
+first fruits of them that "slept."</p>
+<p>I admit with Mr. Talmage that Portugal is a Christian
+country&mdash;that she engaged for hundreds of years in the slave
+trade, and that she justified the infamous traffic by passages in
+the Old Testament. I admit, also, that she persecuted the Jews in
+accordance with the same divine volume. I admit that all the crime,
+ignorance, destitution, and superstition in that country were
+produced by the Catholic Church. I also admit that Portugal would
+be better if it were Protestant.</p>
+<p>Every Catholic is in favor of education enough to</p>
+<center>328</center>
+<p>change a barbarian into a Catholic; every Protestant is in favor
+of education enough to change a Catholic into a Protestant; but
+Protestants and Catholics alike are opposed to education that will
+lead to any real philosophy and science. I admit that Portugal is
+what it is, on account of the preaching of the gospel. I admit that
+Portugal can point with pride to the triumphs of what she calls
+civilization within her borders, and truthfully ascribe the glory
+to the church. But in a litde while, when more railroads are built,
+when telegraphs connect her people with the civilized world, a
+spirit of doubt, of investigation, will manifest itself in
+Portugal.</p>
+<p>When the people stop counting beads, and go to the study of
+mathematics; when they think more of plows than of prayers for
+agricultural purposes; when they find that one fact gives more
+light to the mind than a thousand tapers, and that nothing can by
+any possibility be more useless than a priest,&mdash;then Portugal
+will begin to cease to be what is called a Christian nation.</p>
+<p>I admit that Austria, with her thirty-seven millions, is a
+Christian nation&mdash;including her Croats, Hungarians, Servians,
+and Gypsies. Austria was one of the assassins of Poland. When we
+remember that John</p>
+<center>329</center>
+<p>Sobieski drove the Mohammedans from the gates of Vienna, and
+rescued from the hand of the "infidel" the beleagured city, the
+propriety of calling Austria a Christian nation becomes still more
+apparent. If one wishes to know exactly how "Christian" Austria is,
+let him read the history of Hungary, let him read the speeches of
+Kossuth. There is one good thing about Austria: slowly but surely
+she is undermining the church by education. Education is the enemy
+of superstition. Universal education does away with the classes
+born of the tyranny of ecclesiasticism&mdash; classes founded upon
+cunning, greed, and brute strength. Education also tends to do away
+with intellectual cowardice. The educated man is his own priest,
+his own pope, his own church.</p>
+<p>When cunning collects tolls from fear, the church prospers.</p>
+<p>Germany is another Christian nation. Bismarck is celebrated for
+his Christian virtues.</p>
+<p>Only a little while ago, Bismarck, when a bill was under
+consideration for ameliorating the condition of the Jews, stated
+publicly that Germany was a Christian nation, that her business was
+to extend and protect the religion of Jesus Christ, and that being
+a Christian nation, no laws should be passed</p>
+<center>330</center>
+<p>ameliorating the condition of the Jews. Certainly a remark like
+this could not have been made in any other than a Christian nation.
+There is no freedom of the press, there is no freedom of speech, in
+Germany. The Chancellor has gone so far as to declare that the king
+is not responsible to the people. Germany must be a Christian
+nation. The king gets his right to govern, not from his subjects,
+but from God. He relies upon the New Testament. He is satisfied
+that "the powers that be in Germany are ordained "of God." He is
+satisfied that treason against the German throne is treason against
+Jehovah. There are millions of Freethinkers in Germany. They are
+not in the majority, otherwise there would be more liberty in that
+country. Germany is not an infidel nation, or speech would be free,
+and every man would be allowed to express his honest thoughts.</p>
+<p>Wherever I see Liberty in chains, wherever the expression of
+opinion is a crime, I know that that country is not infidel; I know
+that the people are not ruled by reason. I also know that the
+greatest men of Germany&mdash;her Freethinkers, her scientists, her
+writers, her philosophers, are, for the most part, infidel. Yet
+Germany is called a Christian nation, and ought to be so called
+until her citizens are free.</p>
+<center>331</center>
+<p>France is also claimed as a Christian country. This is not
+entirely true. France once was thoroughly Catholic, completely
+Christian. At the time of the massacre of Saint Bartholomew, the
+French were Christians. Christian France made exiles of the
+Huguenots. Christian France for years and years was the property of
+the Jesuits. Christian France was ignorant, cruel, orthodox and
+infamous. When France was Christian, witnesses were cross-examined
+with instruments of torture.</p>
+<p>Now France is not entirely under Catholic control, and yet she
+is by far the most prosperous nation in Europe. I saw, only the
+other day, a letter from a Protestant bishop, in which he states
+that there are only about a million Protestants in France, and only
+four or five millions of Catholics, and admits, in a very
+melancholy way, that thirty-four or thirty-five millions are
+Freethinkers. The bishop is probably mistaken in his figures, but
+France is the best housed, the best fed, the best clad country in
+Europe.</p>
+<p>Only a little while ago, France was overrun, trampled into the
+very earth, by the victorious hosts of Germany, and France
+purchased her peace with the savings of centuries. And yet France
+is now rich and prosperous and free, and Germany poor,
+discontented</p>
+<center>332</center>
+<p>and enslaved. Hundreds and thousands of Germans, unable to find
+liberty at home, are coming to the United States.</p>
+<p>I admit that England is a Christian country. Any doubts upon
+this point can be dispelled by reading her history&mdash;her career
+in India, what she has done in China, her treatment of Ireland, of
+the American Colonies, her attitude during our Civil war; all these
+things show conclusively that England is a Christian nation.</p>
+<p>Religion has filled Great Britain with war. The history of the
+Catholics, of the Episcopalians, of Cromwell&mdash;all the
+burnings, the maimings, the brandings, the imprisonments, the
+confiscations, the civil wars, the bigotry, the crime&mdash;show
+conclusively that Great Britain has enjoyed to the full the
+blessings of "our most holy religion."</p>
+<p>Of course, Mr. Talmage claims the United States as a Christian
+country. The truth is, our country is not as Christian as it once
+was. When heretics were hanged in New England, when the laws of
+Virginia and Maryland provided that the tongue of any man who
+denied the doctrine of the Trinity should be bored with hot iron,,
+and that for the second offence he should suffer death, I admit
+that this country was</p>
+<center>333</center>
+<p>Christian. When we engaged in the slave trade, when our flag
+protected piracy and murder in every sea, there is not the
+slightest doubt that the United States was a Christian country.
+When we believed in slavery, and when we deliberately stole the
+labor of four millions of people; when we sold women and babes, and
+when the people of the North enacted a law by virtue of which every
+Northern man was bound to turn hound and pursue a human being who
+was endeavoring to regain his liberty, I admit that the United
+States was a Christian nation. I admit that all these things were
+upheld by the Bible &mdash;that the slave trader was justified by
+the Old Testament, that the bloodhound was a kind of missionary in
+disguise, that the auction block was an altar, the slave pen a kind
+of church, and that the whippingpost was considered almost as
+sacred as the cross. At that time, our country was a Christian
+nation.</p>
+<p>I heard Frederick Douglass say that he lectured against slavery
+for twenty years before the doors of a single church were opened to
+him. In New England, hundreds of ministers were driven from their
+pulpits because they preached against the crime of human slavery.
+At that time, this country was a Christian nation.</p>
+<center>334</center>
+<p>Only a few years ago, any man speaking in favor of the rights of
+man, endeavoring to break a chain from a human limb, was in danger
+of being mobbed by the Christians of this country. I admit that
+Delaware is still a Christian State. I heard a story about that
+State the other day.</p>
+<p>About fifty years ago, an old Revolutionary soldier applied for
+a pension. He was asked his age, and he replied that he was fifty
+years old. He was told that if that was his age, he could not have
+been in the Revolutionary War, and consequently was not entitled to
+any pension. He insisted, however, that he was only fifty years
+old. Again they told him that there must be some mistake. He was so
+wrinkled, so bowed, had so many marks of age, that he must
+certainly be more than fifty years old. "Well," said the old man,
+"if I must explain, I will: I lived forty "years in Delaware; but I
+never counted that time, "and I hope God won't."</p>
+<p>The fact is, we have grown less and less Christian every year
+from 1620 until now, and the fact is that we have grown more and
+more civilized, more and more charitable, nearer and nearer
+just.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage speaks as though all the people in what he calls the
+civilized world were Christians. Ad</p>
+<center>335</center>
+<p>mitting this to be true, I find that in these countries millions
+of men are educated, trained and drilled to kill their fellow
+Christians. I find Europe covered with forts to protect Christians
+from Christians, and the seas filled with men-of-war for the
+purpose of ravaging the coasts and destroying the cities of
+Christian nations. These countries are filled with prisons, with
+workhouses, with jails and with toiling, ignorant and suffering
+millions. I find that Christians have invented most of the
+instruments of death, that Christians are the greatest soldiers,
+fighters, destroyers. I find that every Christian country is taxed
+to its utmost to support these soldiers; that every Christian
+nation is now groaning beneath the grievous burden of monstrous
+debt, and that nearly all these debts were contracted in waging
+war. These bonds, these millions, these almost incalculable
+amounts, were given to pay for shot and shell, for rifle and
+torpedo, for men-of-war, for forts and arsenals, and all the
+devilish enginery of death. I find that each of these nations prays
+to God to assist it as against all others; and when one nation has
+overrun, ravaged and pillaged another, it immediately returns
+thanks to the Almighty, and the ravaged and pillaged kneel and
+thank God that it is no worse.</p>
+<center>336</center>
+<p>Mr. Talmage is welcome to all the evidence he can find in the
+history of what he is pleased to call the civilized nations of the
+world, tending to show the inspiration of the Bible.</p>
+<p>And right here it may be well enough to say again, that the
+question of inspiration can not be settled by the votes of the
+superstitious millions. It can not be affected by numbers. It must
+be decided by each human being for himself. If every man in this
+world, with one exception, believed the Bible to be the inspired
+word of God, the man who was the exception could not lose his right
+to think, to investigate, and to judge for himself.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You do not think, then, that any of the
+arguments brought forward by Mr. Talmage for the purpose of
+establishing the inspiration of the Bible, are of any weight
+whatever?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I do not. I do not see how it is possible to make
+poorer, weaker or better arguments than he has made.</p>
+<p>Of course, there can be no "evidence" of the inspiration of the
+Scriptures. What is "inspiration"? Did God use the prophets simply
+as instruments? Did he put his thoughts in their minds, and use
+their</p>
+<center>337</center>
+<p>hands to make a record? Probably few Christians will agree as to
+what they mean by "inspiration." The general idea is, that the
+minds of the writers of the books of the Bible were controlled by
+the divine will in such a way that they expressed, independently of
+their own opinions, the thought of God. I believe it is admitted
+that God did not choose the exact words, and is not responsible for
+the punctuation or syntax. It is hard to give any reason for
+claiming more for the Bible than is claimed by those who wrote it.
+There is no claim of "inspiration" made by the writer of First and
+Second Kings. Not one word about the author having been "inspired"
+is found in the book of Job, or in Ruth, or in Chronicles, or in
+the Psalms, or Ecclesiastes, or in Solomon's Song, and nothing is
+said about the author of the book of Esther having been "inspired."
+Christians now say that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were
+"inspired" to write the four gospels, and yet neither Mark, nor
+Luke, nor John, nor Matthew claims to have been "inspired." If they
+were "inspired," certainly they should have stated that fact. The
+very first thing stated in each of the gospels should have been a
+declaration by the writer that he had been "inspired," and that he
+was about to write the book under the guidance of God,</p>
+<center>338</center>
+<p>and at the conclusion of each gospel there should have been a
+solemn statement that the writer had put down nothing of himself,
+but had in all things followed the direction and guidance of the
+divine will. The church now endeavors to establish the inspiration
+of the Bible by force, by social ostracism, and by attacking the
+reputation of every man who denies or doubts. In all Christian
+countries, they begin with the child in the cradle. Each infant is
+told by its mother, by its father, or by some of its relatives,
+that "the Bible is an inspired book." This pretended fact, by
+repetition "in season and out of "season," is finally burned and
+branded into the brain to such a degree that the child of average
+intelligence never outgrows the conviction that the Bible is, in
+some peculiar sense, an "inspired" book. The question has to be
+settled for each generation. The evidence is not sufficient, and
+the foundation of Christianity is perpetually insecure. Beneath
+this great religious fabric there is no rock. For eighteen
+centuries, hundreds and thousands and millions of people have been
+endeavoring to establish the fact that the Scriptures are inspired,
+and since the dawn of science, since the first star appeared in the
+night of the Middle Ages, until this moment, the number of</p>
+<center>339</center>
+<p>people who have doubted the fact of inspiration has steadily
+increased. These doubts have not been born of ignorance, they have
+not been suggested by the unthinking. They have forced themselves
+upon the thoughtful, upon the educated, and now the verdict of the
+intellectual world is, that the Bible is not inspired.
+Notwithstanding the fact that the church has taken advantage of
+infancy, has endeavored to control education, has filled all
+primers and spellingbooks and readers and text books with
+superstition&mdash; feeding all minds with the miraculous and
+supernatural, the growth toward a belief in the natural and toward
+the rejection of the miraculous has been steady and sturdy since
+the sixteenth century. There has been, too, a moral growth, until
+many passages in the Bible have become barbarous, inhuman and
+infamous. The Bible has remained the same, while the world has
+changed. In the light of physical and moral discovery, "the
+inspired volume" seems in many respects absurd. If the same
+progress is made in the next, as in the last, century, it is very
+easy to predict the place that will then be occupied by the Bible.
+By comparing long periods of time, it is easy to measure the
+advance of the human race. Compare the average sermon of to-day
+with the average</p>
+<center>340</center>
+<p>sermon of one hundred years ago. Compare what ministers teach
+to-day with the creeds they profess to believe, and you will see
+the immense distance that even the church has traveled in the last
+century.</p>
+<p>The Christians tell us that scientific men have made mistakes,
+and that there is very little certainty in the domain of human
+knowledge. This I admit. The man who thought the world was flat,
+and who had a way of accounting for the movement of the heavenly
+bodies, had what he was pleased to call a philosophy. He was, in
+his way, a geologist and an astronomer. We admit that he was
+mistaken; but if we claimed that the first geologist and the first
+astronomer were inspired, it would not do for us to admit that any
+advance had been made, or that any errors of theirs had been
+corrected. We do not claim that the first scientists were inspired.
+We do not claim that the last are inspired. We admit that all
+scientific men are fallible. We admit that they do not know
+everything. We insist that they know but little, and that even in
+that little which they are supposed to know, there is the
+possibility of error. The first geologist said: "The earth is
+flat." Suppose that the geologists of to-day should insist that
+that man was inspired, and then endeavor to show that</p>
+<center>341</center>
+<p>the word "flat," in the "Hebrew," did not mean quite flat, but
+just a little rounded; what would we think of their honesty? The
+first astronomer insisted that the sun and moon and stars revolved
+around this earth&mdash;that this little earth was the centre of
+the entire system. Suppose that the astronomers of to-day should
+insist that that astronomer was inspired, and should try to
+explain, and say that he simply used the language of the common
+people, and when he stated that the sun and moon and stars revolved
+around the earth, he merely meant that they "apparently revolved,"
+and that the earth, in fact, turned over, would we consider them
+honest men? You might as well say that the first painter was
+inspired, or that the first sculptor had the assistance of God, as
+to say that the first writer, or the first bookmaker, was divinely
+inspired. It is more probable that the modern geologist is inspired
+than that the ancient one was, because the modern geologist is
+nearer right. It is more probable that William Lloyd Garrison was
+inspired upon the question of slavery than that Moses was. It is
+more probable that the author of the Declaration of Independence
+spoke by divine authority than that the author of the Pentateuch
+did. In other words, if there can be any evidence of</p>
+<center>342</center>
+<p>"inspiration," it must lie in the fact of doing or saying the
+best possible thing that could have been done or said at that time
+or upon that subject.</p>
+<p>To make myself clear: The only possible evidence of
+"inspiration" would be perfection&mdash;a perfection excelling
+anything that man unaided had ever attained. An "inspired" book
+should excel all other books; an inspired statue should be the best
+in this world; an inspired painting should be beyond all others. If
+the Bible has been improved in any particular, it was not, in that
+particular, ''inspired." If slavery is wrong, the Bible is not
+inspired. If polygamy is vile and loathsome, the Bible is not
+inspired. If wars of extermination are cruel and heartless, the
+Bible is not "inspired." If there is within that book a
+contradiction of any natural fact; if there is one ignorant
+falsehood, if there is one mistake, then it is not "inspired." I do
+not mean mistakes that have grown out of translations; but if there
+was in the original manuscript one mistake, then it is not
+"inspired." I do not demand a miracle; I do not demand a knowledge
+of the future; I simply demand an absolute knowledge of the past. I
+demand an absolute knowledge of the then present; I demand a
+knowledge of the constitution of the human mind&mdash; of the facts
+in nature, and that is all I demand.</p>
+<center>343</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If I understand you, you think that all
+political power should come from the people; do you not believe in
+any "special providence," and do you take the ground that God does
+not interest himself in the affairs of nations and individuals?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The Christian idea is that God made the world,
+and made certain laws for the government of matter and mind, and
+that he never interferes except upon special occasions, when the
+ordinary laws fail to work out the desired end. Their notion is,
+that the Lord now and then stops the horses simply to show that he
+is driving. It seems to me that if an infinitely wise being made
+the world, he must have made it the best possible; and that if he
+made laws for the government of matter and mind, he must have made
+the best possible laws. If this is true, not one of these laws can
+be violated without producing a positive injury. It does not seem
+probable that infinite wisdom would violate a law that infinite
+wisdom had made.</p>
+<p>Most ministers insist that God now and then interferes in the
+affairs of this world; that he has not interfered as much lately as
+he did formerly. When the world was comparatively new, it required
+altogether more tinkering and fixing than at present.</p>
+<center>344</center>
+<p>Things are at last in a reasonably good condition, and
+consequently a great amount of interference is not necessary. In
+old times it was found necessary frequently to raise the dead, to
+change the nature of fire and water, to punish people with plagues
+and famine, to destroy cities by storms of fire and brimstone, to
+change women into salt, to cast hailstones upon heathen, to
+interfere with the movements of our planetary system, to stop the
+earth not only, but sometimes to make it turn the other way, to
+arrest the moon, and to make water stand up like a wall. Now and
+then, rivers were divided by striking them with a coat, and people
+were taken to heaven in chariots of fire. These miracles, in
+addition to curing the sick, the halt, the deaf and blind, were in
+former times found necessary, but since the "apostolic age,"
+nothing of the kind has been resorted to except in Catholic
+countries. Since the death of the last apostle, God has appeared
+only to members of the Catholic Church, and all modern miracles
+have been performed for the benefit of Catholicism. There is no
+authentic account of the Virgin Mary having ever appeared to a
+Protestant. The bones of Protestant saints have never cured a
+solitary disease. Protestants now say that the testimony of the
+Catholics can</p>
+<center>345</center>
+<p>not be relied upon, and yet, the authenticity of every book in
+the New Testament was established by Catholic testimony. Some few
+miracles were performed in Scotland, and in fact in England and the
+United States, but they were so small that they are hardly worth
+mentioning. Now and then, a man was struck dead for taking the name
+of the Lord in vain. Now and then, people were drowned who were
+found in boats on Sunday. Whenever anybody was about to commit
+murder, God has not interfered&mdash;the reason being that he gave
+man free-will, and expects to hold him accountable in another
+world, and there is no exception to this free-will doctrine, but in
+cases where men swear or violate the Sabbath. They are allowed to
+commit all other crimes without any interference on the part of the
+Lord.</p>
+<p>My own opinion is, that the clergy found it necessary to
+preserve the Sabbath for their own uses, and for that reason
+endeavored to impress the people with the enormity of its
+violation, and for that purpose gave instances of people being
+drowned and suddenly struck dead for working or amusing themselves
+on that day. The clergy have objected to any other places of
+amusement except their own, being opened on that day. They wished
+to compel people either to go to</p>
+<center>346</center>
+<p>church or stay at home. They have also known that profanity
+tended to do away with the feelings of awe they wished to
+cultivate, and for that reason they have insisted that swearing was
+one of the most terrible of crimes, exciting above all others the
+wrath of God.</p>
+<p>There was a time when people fell dead for having spoken
+disrespectfully to a priest. The priest at that time pretended to
+be the visible representative of God, and as such, entitled to a
+degree of reverence amounting almost to worship. Several cases are
+given in the ecclesiastical history of Scotland where men were
+deprived of speech for having spoken rudely to a parson.</p>
+<p>These stories were calculated to increase the importance of the
+clergy and to convince people that they were under the special care
+of the Deity. The story about the bears devouring the little
+children was told in the first place, and has been repeated since,
+simply to protect ministers from the laughter of children. There
+ought to be carved on each side of every pulpit a bear with
+fragments of children in its mouth, as this animal has done so much
+to protect the dignity of the clergy.</p>
+<p>Besides the protection of ministers, the drowning</p>
+<center>347</center>
+<p>of breakers of the Sabbath, and striking a few people dead for
+using profane language, I think there is no evidence of any
+providential interference in the affairs of this world in what may
+be called modern times. Ministers have endeavored to show that
+great calamities have been brought upon nations and cities as a
+punishment for the wickedness of the people. They have insisted
+that some countries have been visited with earthquakes because the
+people had failed to discharge their religious duties; but as
+earthquakes happened in uninhabited countries, and often at sea,
+where no one is hurt, most people have concluded that they are not
+sent as punishments. They have insisted that cities have been
+burned as a punishment, and to show the indignation of the Lord,
+but at the same time they have admitted that if the streets had
+been wider, the fire departments better organized, and wooden
+buildings fewer, the design of the Lord would have been
+frustrated.</p>
+<p>After reading the history of the world, it is somewhat difficult
+to find which side the Lord is really on. He has allowed Catholics
+to overwhelm and destroy Protestants, and then he has allowed
+Protestants to overwhelm and destroy Catholics. He has allowed
+Christianity to triumph over Paganism, and he allowed</p>
+<center>348</center>
+<p>Mohammedans to drive back the hosts of the cross from the
+sepulchre of his son. It is curious that this God would allow the
+slave trade to go on, and yet punish the violators of the Sabbath.
+It is simply wonderful that he would allow kings to wage cruel and
+remorseless war, to sacrifice millions upon the altar of heartless
+ambition, and at the same time strike a man dead for taking his
+name in vain. It is wonderful that he allowed slavery to exist for
+centuries in the United States; that he allows polygamy now in
+Utah; that he cares nothing for liberty in Russia, nothing for free
+speech in Germany, nothing for the sorrows of the overworked,
+underpaid millions of the world; that he cares nothing for the
+innocent languishing in prisons, nothing for the patriots condemned
+to death, nothing for the heart-broken widows and orphans, nothing
+for the starving, and yet has ample time to note a sparrow's fall.
+If he would only strike dead the would-be murderers; if he would
+only palsy the hands of husbands' uplifted to strike their wives;
+if he would render speechless the cursers of children, he could
+afford to overlook the swearers and breakers of his Sabbath.</p>
+<p>For one, I am not satisfied with the government of this world,
+and I am going to do what little I can</p>
+<center>349</center>
+<p>to make it better. I want more thought and less fear, more
+manhood and less superstition, less prayer and more help, more
+education, more reason, more intellectual hospitality, and above
+all, and over all, more liberty and kindness.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that God, if there be one, when he
+saves or damns a man, will take into consideration all the
+circumstances of the man's life?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Suppose that two orphan boys, James and John, are
+given homes. James is taken into a Christian family and John into
+an infidel. James becomes a Christian, and dies in the faith. John
+becomes an infidel, and dies without faith in Christ. According to
+the Christian religion, as commonly preached, James will go to
+heaven, and John to hell.</p>
+<p>Now, suppose that God knew that if James had been raised by the
+infidel family, he would have died an infidel, and that if John had
+been raised by the Christian family, he would have died a
+Christian. What then? Recollect that the boys did not choose the
+families in which they were placed.</p>
+<p>Suppose that a child, cast away upon an island in which he found
+plenty of food, grew to manhood; and suppose that after he had
+reached mature years,</p>
+<center>350</center>
+<p>the island was visited by a missionary who taught a false
+religion; and suppose that this islander was convinced that he
+ought to worship a wooden idol; and suppose, further, that the
+worship consisted in sacrificing animals; and suppose the islander,
+actuated only by what he conceived to be his duty and by
+thankfulness, sacrificed a toad every night and every morning upon
+the altar of his wooden god; that when the sky looked black and
+threatening he sacrificed two toads; that when feeling unwell he
+sacrificed three; and suppose that in all this he was honest, that
+he really believed that the shedding of toad-blood would soften the
+heart of his god toward him? And suppose that after he had become
+fully-convinced of the truth of his religion, a missionary of the
+"true religion" should visit the island, and tell the history of
+the Jews&mdash;unfold the whole scheme of salvation? And suppose
+that the islander should honestly reject the true religion? Suppose
+he should say that he had "internal evidence" not only, but that
+many miracles had been performed by his god, in his behalf; that
+often when the sky was black with storm, he had sacrificed a toad,
+and in a few moments the sun was again visible, the heavens blue,
+and without a cloud; that on several occasions, having</p>
+<center>351</center>
+<p>forgotten at evening to sacrifice his toad, he found himself
+unable to sleep&mdash;that his conscience smote him, he had risen,
+made the sacrifice, returned to his bed, and in a few moments sunk
+into a serene and happy slumber? And suppose, further, that the man
+honestly believed that the efficacy of the sacrifice depended
+largely on the size of the toad? Now suppose that in this belief
+the man had died,&mdash;what then?</p>
+<p>It must be remembered that God knew when the missionary of the
+false religion went to the island; and knew that the islander would
+be convinced of the truth of the false religion; and he also knew
+that the missionary of the true religion could not, by any
+possibility, convince the islander of the error of his way; what
+then?</p>
+<p>If God is infinite, we cannot speak of him as making efforts, as
+being tired. We cannot consistently say that one thing is easy to
+him, and another thing is hard, providing both are possible. This
+being so, why did not God reveal himself to every human being?
+Instead of having an inspired book, why did he not make inspired
+folks? Instead of having his commandments put on tables of stone,
+why did he not write them on each human brain?</p>
+<center>352</center>
+<p>Why was not the mind of each man so made that every religious
+truth necessary to his salvation was an axiom?</p>
+<p>Do we not know absolutely that man is greatly influenced by his
+surroundings? If Mr. Talmage had been born in Turkey, is it not
+probable that he would now be a whirling Dervish? If he had first
+seen the light in Central Africa, he might now have been prostrate
+before some enormous serpent; if in India, he might have been a
+Brahmin, running a prayer-machine; if in Spain, he would probably
+have been a priest, with his beads and holy water. Had he been born
+among the North American Indians, he would speak of the "Great
+Spirit," and solemnly smoke the the pipe of peace.</p>
+<p>Mr. Talmage teaches that it is the duty of children to
+perpetuate the errors of their parents; consequently, the religion
+of his parents determined his theology. It is with him not a
+question of reason, but of parents; not a question of argument, but
+of filial affection. He does not wish to be a philosopher, but an
+obedient son. Suppose his father had been a Catholic, and his
+mother a Protestant,&mdash;what then? Would he show contempt for
+his mother by following the path of his father; or would he
+show</p>
+<center>353</center>
+<p>disrespect for his father, by accepting the religion of his
+mother; or would he have become a Protestant with Catholic
+proclivities, or a Catholic with Protestant leanings? Suppose his
+parents had both been infidels&mdash;what then?</p>
+<p>Is it not better for each one to decide honestly for himself?
+Admitting that your parents were good and kind; admitting that they
+were honest in their views, why not have the courage to say, that
+in your opinion, father and mother were both mistaken? No one can
+honor his parents by being a hypocrite, or an intellectual coward.
+Whoever is absolutely true to himself, is true to his parents, and
+true to the whole world. Whoever is untrue to himself, is false to
+all mankind. Religion must be an individual matter. If there is a
+God, and if there is a day of judgment, the church that a man
+belongs to will not be tried, but the man will be tried.</p>
+<p>It is a fact that the religion of most people was made for them
+by others; that they have accepted certain dogmas, not because they
+have examined them, but because they were told that they were true.
+Most of the people in the United States, had they been born in
+Turkey, would now be Mohammedans, and most of the Turks, had they
+been born in Spain, would now be Catholics.</p>
+<center>354</center>
+<p>It is almost, if not quite, impossible for a man to rise
+entirely above the ideas, views, doctrines and religions of his
+tribe or country. No one expects to find philosophers in Central
+Africa, or scientists among the Fejees. No one expects to find
+philosophers or scientists in any country where the church has
+absolute control.</p>
+<p>If there is an infinitely good and wise God, of course he will
+take into consideration the surroundings of every human being. He
+understands the philosophy of environment, and of heredity. He
+knows exactly the influence of the mother, of all associates, of
+all associations. He will also take into consideration the amount,
+quality and form of each brain, and whether the brain was healthy
+or diseased. He will take into consideration the strength of the
+passions, the weakness of the judgment. He will know exactly the
+force of all temptation&mdash;what was resisted. He will take an
+account of every effort made in the right direction, and will
+understand all the winds and waves and quicksands and shores and
+shallows in, upon and around the sea of every life.</p>
+<p>My own opinion is, that if such a being exists, and all these
+things are taken into consideration, we will</p>
+<center>355</center>
+<p>be absolutely amazed to see how small the difference is between
+the "good" and the "bad." Certainly there is no such difference as
+would justify a being of infinite wisdom and benevolence in
+rewarding one with eternal joy and punishing the other with eternal
+pain.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What are the principal reasons that have
+satisfied you that the Bible is not an inspired book?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The great evils that have afflicted this world
+are:</p>
+<p><i>First</i>. Human slavery&mdash;where men have bought and sold
+their fellow-men&mdash;sold babes from mothers, and have practiced)
+every conceivable cruelty upon the helpless.</p>
+<p><i>Second</i>. Polygamy&mdash;an institution that destroys the
+home, that treats woman as a simple chattel, that does away with
+the sanctity of marriage, and with all that is sacred in love.</p>
+<p><i>Third</i>. Wars of conquest and extermination&mdash; by which
+nations have been made the food of the sword.</p>
+<p><i>Fourth</i>. The idea entertained by each nation that all
+other nations are destitute of rights&mdash;in other</p>
+<center>356</center>
+<p>words, patriotism founded upon egotism, prejudice, and love of
+plunder.</p>
+<p><i>Fifth</i>. Religious persecution.</p>
+<p><i>Sixth</i>. The divine right of kings&mdash;an idea that rests
+upon the inequality of human rights, and insists that people should
+be governed without their consent; that the right of one man to
+govern another comes from God, and not from the consent of the
+governed. This is caste&mdash;one of the most odious forms of
+slavery.</p>
+<p><i>Seventh</i>. A belief in malicious supernatural
+beings&mdash;devils, witches, and wizards.</p>
+<p><i>Eighth</i>. A belief in an infinite being who ordered,
+commanded, established and approved all these evils.</p>
+<p><i>Ninth</i>. The idea that one man can be good for another, or
+bad for another&mdash;that is to say, that one can be rewarded for
+the goodness of another, or justly punished for the sins of
+another.</p>
+<p><i>Tenth</i>. The dogma that a finite being can commit an
+infinite sin, and thereby incur the eternal displeasure of an
+infinitely good being, and be justly subjected to eternal
+torment.</p>
+<p>My principal objection to the Bible is that it sustains all of
+these ten evils&mdash;that it is the advocate of</p>
+<center>357</center>
+<p>human slavery, the friend of polygamy; that within its pages I
+find the command to wage wars of extermination; that I find also
+that the Jews were taught to hate foreigners&mdash;to consider all
+human beings as inferior to themselves; I also find persecution
+commanded as a religious duty; that kings were seated upon their
+thrones by the direct act of God, and that to rebel against a king
+was rebellion against God. I object to the Bible also because I
+find within its pages the infamous spirit of caste&mdash;I see the
+sons of Levi set apart as the perpetual beggars and governors of a
+people; because I find the air filled with demons seeking to injure
+and betray the sons of men; because this book is the fountain of
+modern superstition, the bulwark of tyranny and the fortress of
+caste. This book also subverts the idea of justice by threatening
+infinite punishment for the sins of a finite being.</p>
+<p>At the same time, I admit&mdash;as I always have
+admitted&mdash;that there are good passages in the Bible&mdash;
+good laws, good teachings, with now and then a true line of
+history. But when it is asserted that every word was written by
+inspiration&mdash;that a being of infinite wisdom and goodness is
+its author,&mdash;then I raise the standard of revolt.</p>
+<center>358</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of the declaration of Mr.
+Talmage that the Bible will be read in heaven throughout all the
+endless ages of eternity?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course I know but very little as to what is or
+will be done in heaven. My knowledge of that country is somewhat
+limited, and it may be possible that the angels will spend most of
+their time in turning over the sacred leaves of the Old Testament.
+I can not positively deny the statement of the Reverend Mr. Talmage
+as I have but very little idea as to how the angels manage to kill
+time.</p>
+<p>The Reverend Mr. Spurgeon stated in a sermon that some people
+wondered what they would do through all eternity in heaven. He said
+that, as for himself, for the first hundred thousand years he would
+look at the wound in one of the Savior's feet, and for the next
+hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in his other
+foot, and for the next hundred thousand years he would look at the
+wound in one of his hands, and for the next hundred thousand years
+he would look at the wound in the other hand, and for the next
+hundred thousand years he would look at the wound in his side.</p>
+<p>Surely, nothing could be more delightful than this</p>
+<center>359</center>
+<p>A man capable of being happy in such employment, could of course
+take great delight in reading even the genealogies of the Old
+Testament. It is very easy to see what a glow of joy would
+naturally overspread the face of an angel while reading the history
+of the Jewish wars, how the seraphim and cherubim would clasp their
+rosy palms in ecstasy over the fate of Korah and his company, and
+what laughter would wake the echoes of the New Jerusalem as some
+one told again the story of the children and the bears; and what
+happy groups, with folded pinions, would smilingly listen to the
+109th Psalm.</p>
+<a name="image-0001" id="image-0001"><!--IMG--></a>
+<center><img src="images/image.file" width="200" height="150" alt=
+" 371 " /></center>
+<p>An orthodox "state of mind"</p>
+<a name="link0009" id="link0009"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>THE TALMAGIAN CATECHISM.</h2>
+<p><i>As Mr. Talmage delivered the series of sermons referred to in
+these interviews, for the purpose of furnishing arguments to the
+young, so that they might not be misled by the sophistry of modern
+infi-delity, I have thought it best to set forth, for use in Sunday
+schools, the pith and marrow of what he has been pleased to say, in
+the form of</i></p>
+<center>A SHORTER CATECHISM.</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Who made you?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Jehovah, the original Presbyterian.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What else did he make?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He made the world and all things.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he make the world out of nothing?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did he make it out of?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Out of his "omnipotence." Many infidels have
+pretended that if God made the universe, and if there was nothing
+until he did make it, he had nothing to make it out of. Of course
+this is perfectly absurd when we remember that he always had his
+"omnipotence and that is, undoubtedly, the material used.</p>
+<center>364</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he create his own "omnipotence"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly not, he was always omnipotent.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then if he always had "omnipotence," he did not
+"create" the material of which the universe is made; he simply took
+a portion of his "omnipotence" and changed it to "universe"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly, that is the way I understand it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is he still omnipotent, and has he as much
+"omnipotence" now as he ever had?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, I suppose he has.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How long did it take God to make the
+universe?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Six "good-whiles."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How long is a "good-while"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. That will depend upon the future discoveries of
+geologists. "Good-whiles" are of such a nature that they can be
+pulled out, or pushed up; and it is utterly impossible for any
+infidel, or scientific geologist, to make any period that a
+"good-while" won't fit.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you understand by "the "morning and
+evening" of a "good-while"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course the words "morning and</p>
+<center>365</center>
+<p>"evening" are used figuratively, and mean simply the beginning
+and the ending, of each "good-while."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. On what day did God make vegetation?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. On the third day.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was that before the sun was made?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; a "good-while" before.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How did vegetation grow without sunlight?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. My own opinion is, that it was either "nourished
+by the glare of volcanoes in the moon or "it may have gotten
+sufficient light from rivers "of molten granite;" or, "sufficient
+light might have "been emitted by the crystallization of rocks." It
+has been suggested that light might have been furnished by
+fire-flies and phosphorescent bugs and worms, but this I regard as
+going too far.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that light emitted by rocks would
+be sufficient to produce trees?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, with the assistance of the "Aurora
+"Borealis, or even the Aurora Australis;" but with both, most
+assuredly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If the light of which you speak was sufficient,
+why was the sun made?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. To keep time with.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did God make man of?</p>
+<center>366</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He made man of dust and "omnipo"tence."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he make a woman at the same time that he
+made a man?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; he thought at one time to avoid the necessity
+of making a woman, and he caused all the animals to pass before
+Adam, to see what he would call them, and to see whether a fit
+companion could be found for him. Among them all, not one suited
+Adam, and Jehovah immediately saw that he would have to make an
+help-meet on purpose.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What was woman made of?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. She was made out of "man's side, out of his right
+side," and some more "omnipotence." Infidels say that she was made
+out of a rib, or a bone, but that is because they do not understand
+Hebrew.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What was the object of making woman out of
+man's side?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. So that a young man would think more of a
+neighbor's girl than of his own uncle or grandfather.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did God do with Adam and Eve after he got
+them done?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He put them into a garden to see what they would
+do.</p>
+<center>367</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do we know where the Garden of Eden was, and
+have we ever found any place where a "river parted and became into
+four heads"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We are not certain where this garden was, and the
+river that parted into four heads cannot at present be found.
+Infidels have had a great deal to say about these four rivers, but
+they will wish they had even one, one of these days.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What happened to Adam and Eve in the
+garden?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They were tempted by a snake who was an
+exceedingly good talker, and who probably came in walking on the
+end of his tail. This supposition is based upon the fact that, as a
+punishment, he was condemned to crawl on his belly. Before that
+time, of course, he walked upright.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What happened then?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Our first parents gave way, ate of the forbidden
+fruit, and in consequence, disease and death entered the world. Had
+it not been for this, there would have been no death and no
+disease. Suicide would have been impossible, and a man could have
+been blown into a thousand atoms by dynamite, and the pieces would
+immediately have come together again. Fire would have refused
+to</p>
+<center>368</center>
+<p>burn and water to drown; there could have been no hunger, no
+thirst; all things would have been equally healthy.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you mean to say that there would have been
+no death in the world, either of animals, insects, or persons?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you also think that all briers and thorns
+sprang from the same source, and that had the apple not been eaten,
+no bush in the world would have had a thorn, and brambles and
+thistles would have been unknown?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would there have been no poisonous plants, no
+poisonous reptiles?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No, sir; there would have been none; there would
+have been no evil in the world if Adam and Eve had not partaken of
+the forbidden fruit.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was the snake who tempted them to eat,
+evil?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly. '</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was he in the world before the forbidden fruit
+was eaten?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he was; he tempted them to eat it</p>
+<center>369</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How, then, do you account for the fact that,
+before the forbidden fruit was eaten, an evil serpent was in the
+world?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Perhaps apples had been eaten in other
+worlds.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not wonderful that such awful
+consequences flowed from so small an act?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is not for you to reason about it; you should
+simply remember that God is omnipotent. There is but one way to
+answer these things, and that is to admit their truth. Nothing so
+puts the Infinite out of temper as to see a human being impudent
+enough to rely upon his reason. The moment we rely upon our reason,
+we abandon God, and try to take care of ourselves. Whoever relies
+entirely upon God, has no need of reason, and reason has no need of
+him.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were our first parents under the immediate
+protection of an infinite God?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They were.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why did he not protect them? Why did he not
+warn them of this snake? Why did he not put them on their guard?
+Why did he not make them so sharp, intellectually, that they could
+not be deceived? Why did he not destroy that</p>
+<center>370</center>
+<p>snake; or how did he come to make him; what did he make him
+for?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. You must remember that, although God made Adam
+and Eve perfectly good, still he was very anxious to test them. He
+also gave them the power of choice, knowing at the same time
+exactly what they would choose, and knowing that he had made them
+so that they must choose in a certain way. A being of infinite
+wisdom tries experiments. Knowing exactly what will happen, he
+wishes to see if it will.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What punishment did God inflict upon Adam and
+Eve for the sin of having eaten the forbidden fruit?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He pronounced a curse upon the woman, saying that
+in sorrow she should bring forth children, and that her husband
+should rule over her; that she, having tempted her husband, was
+made his slave; and through her, all married women have been
+deprived of their natural liberty. On account of the sin of Adam
+and Eve, God cursed the ground, saying that it should bring forth
+thorns and thistles, and that man should eat his bread in sorrow,
+and that he should eat the herb of the field.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he turn them out of the garden because of
+their sin?</p>
+<center>371</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. The reason God gave for turning them out of
+the garden was: "Behold the man is "become as one of us, to know
+good and evil; and "now, lest he put forth his hand and take of the
+"tree of life and eat and live forever, therefore, the "Lord God
+sent him forth from the Garden of Eden "to till the ground from
+whence he was taken."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If the man had eaten of the tree of life, would
+he have lived forever?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was he turned out to prevent his eating?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He was.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then the Old Testament tells us how we lost
+immortality, not that we are immortal, does it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; it tells us how we lost it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was God afraid that Adam and Eve might get back
+into the garden, and eat of the fruit of the tree of life?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I suppose he was, as he placed "cher"ubim and a
+flaming sword which turned every "way to guard the tree of
+life."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Has any one ever seen any of these
+cherubim?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Not that I know of.</p>
+<center>372</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Where is the flaming sword now?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Some angel has it in heaven.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you understand that God made coats of skins,
+and clothed Adam and Eve when he turned them out of the garden?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, sir.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you really believe that the infinite God
+killed some animals, took their skins from them, cut out and sewed
+up clothes for Adam and Eve?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The Bible says so; we know that he had patterns
+for clothes, because he showed some to Moses on Mount Sinai.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. About how long did God continue to pay
+particular attention to his children in this world?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. For about fifteen hundred years; and some of the
+people lived to be nearly a thousand years of age.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did this God establish any schools or
+institutions of learning? Did he establish any church? Did he
+ordain any ministers, or did he have any revivals?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; he allowed the world to go on pretty much in
+its own way. He did not even keep his own boys at home. They came
+down and made</p>
+<center>373</center>
+<p>love to the daughters of men, and finally the world got
+exceedingly bad.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did God do then?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He made up his mind that he would drown them. You
+see they were all totally depraved,&mdash;in every joint and sinew
+of their bodies, in every drop of their blood, and in every thought
+of their brains.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he drown them all?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No, he saved eight, to start with again.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were these eight persons totally depraved?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why did he not kill them, and start over again
+with a perfect pair? Would it not have been better to have had his
+flood at first, before he made anybody, and drowned the snake?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. "God's way are not our ways;" and besides, you
+must remember that "a thousand years "are as one day" with God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How did God destroy the people?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. By water; it rained forty days and forty nights,
+and "the fountains of the great deep were "broken up."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How deep was the water?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. About five miles.</p>
+<center>374</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How much did it rain each day?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. About eight hundred feet; though the better
+opinion now is, that it was a local flood. Infidels have raised
+objections and pressed them to that degree that most orthodox
+people admit that the flood was rather local.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If it was a local flood, why did they put birds
+of the air into the ark? Certainly, birds could have avoided a
+local flood?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If you take this away from us, what do you
+propose to give us in its place? Some of the best people of the
+world have believed this story. Kind husbands, loving mothers, and
+earnest patriots have believed it, and that is sufficient.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. At the time God made these people, did he know
+that he would have to drown them all?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know when he made them that they would
+all be failures?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why, then, did he make them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He made them for his own glory, and no man should
+disgrace his parents by denying it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were the people after the flood just as bad as
+they were before?</p>
+<center>375</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. About the same.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did they try to circumvent God?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They got together for the purpose of building a
+tower, the top of which should reach to heaven, so that they could
+laugh at any future floods, and go to heaven at any time they
+desired.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did God hear about this?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did he say?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He said: "Go to; let us go down," and see what
+the people are doing; I am satisfied they will succeed.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How were the people prevented from
+succeeding?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. God confounded their language, so that the mason
+on top could not cry "mort'!" to the hod-carrier below; he could
+not think of the word to use, to save his life, and the building
+stopped.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If it had not been for the confusion of tongues
+at Babel, do you really think that all the people in the world
+would have spoken just the same language, and would have pronounced
+every word precisely the same?</p>
+<center>376</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If it had not been, then, for the confusion of
+languages, spelling books, grammars and dictionaries would have
+been useless?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I suppose so.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do any two people in the whole world speak the
+same language, now?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course they don't, and this is one of the
+great evidences that God introduced confusion into the languages.
+Every error in grammar, every mistake in spelling, every blunder in
+pronunciation, proves the truth of the Babel story.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. This being so, this miracle is the best
+attested of all?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I suppose it is.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you not think that a confusion of tongues
+would bring men together instead of separating them? Would not a
+man unable to converse with his fellow feel weak instead of strong;
+and would not people whose language had been confounded cling
+together for mutual support?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. According to nature, yes; according to theology,
+no; and these questions must be answered according to theology. And
+right here, it may be well enough to state, that in theology the
+unnatural</p>
+<center>377</center>
+<p>is the probable, and the impossible is what has always happened.
+If theology were simply natural, anybody could be a theologian.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did God ever make any other special efforts to
+convert the people, or to reform the world?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, he destroyed the cities of Sodom and
+Gomorrah with a storm of fire and brimstone.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you suppose it was really brimstone?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Undoubtedly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think this brimstone came from the
+clouds?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Let me tell you that you have no right to examine
+the Bible in the light of what people are pleased to call
+"science." The natural has nothing to do with the supernatural.
+Naturally there would be no brimstone in the clouds, but
+supernaturally there might be. God could make brimstone out of his
+"omnipotence." We do not know really what brimstone is, and nobody
+knows exactly how brimstone is made. As a matter of fact, all the
+brimstone in the world might have fallen at that time.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Lot's wife was changed into
+salt?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course she was. A miracle was per</p>
+<center>378</center>
+<p>formed. A few centuries ago, the statue of salt made by changing
+Lot's wife into that article, was standing. Christian travelers
+have seen it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why do you think she was changed into salt?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. For the purpose of keeping the event fresh in the
+minds of men.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. God having failed to keep people innocent in a
+garden; having failed to govern them outside of a garden; having
+failed to reform them by water; having failed to produce any good
+result by a confusion of tongues; having failed to reform them with
+fire and brimstone, what did he then do?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He concluded that he had no time to waste on them
+all, but that he would have to select one tribe, and turn his
+entire attention to just a few folks.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Whom did he select?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. A man by the name of Abram.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What kind of man was Abram?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If you wish to know, read the twelfth chapter of
+Genesis; and if you still have any doubts as to his character, read
+the twentieth chapter of the same book, and you will see that he
+was a man who made merchandise of his wife's body. He had had</p>
+<center>379</center>
+<p>such good fortune in Egypt, that he tried the experiment again
+on Abimelech.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did Abraham show any gratitude?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; he offered to sacrifice his son, to show his
+confidence in Jehovah.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What became of Abraham and his people?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. God took such care of them, that in about two
+hundred and fifteen years they were all slaves in the land of
+Egypt.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How long did they remain in slavery?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Two hundred and fifteen years.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were they the same people that God had promised
+to take care of?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They were.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was God at that time, in favor of slavery?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Not at that time. He was angry at the Egyptians
+for enslaving the Jews, but he afterwards authorized the Jews to
+enslave other people.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What means did he take to liberate the
+Jews?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He sent his agents to Pharaoh, and demanded their
+freedom; and upon Pharaoh s refusing, he afflicted the people, who
+had nothing to do with</p>
+<center>380</center>
+<p>it, with various plagues,&mdash;killed children, and tormented
+and tortured beasts.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was such conduct Godlike?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly. If you have anything against your
+neighbor, it is perfectly proper to torture his horse, or torment
+his dog. Nothing can be nobler than this. You see it is much better
+to injure his animals than to injure him. To punish animals for the
+sins of their owners must be just, or God would not have done it.
+Pharaoh insisted on keeping the people in slavery, and therefore
+God covered the bodies of oxen and cows with boils. He also bruised
+them to death with hailstones. From this we infer, that "the loving
+kindness of God is over all his works."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you consider such treatment of animals
+consistent with divine mercy?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly. You know that under the Mosaic
+dispensation, when a man did a wrong, he could settle with God by
+killing an ox, or a sheep, or some doves. If the man failed to kill
+them, of course God would kill them. It was upon this principle
+that he destroyed the animals of the Egyptians. They had sinned,
+and he merely took his pay.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How was it possible, under the old
+dispensation, to please a being of infinite kindness?</p>
+<center>381</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. All you had to do was to take an innocent animal,
+bring it to the altar, cut its throat, and sprinkle the altar with
+its blood. Certain parts of it were to be given to the butcher as
+his share, and the rest was to be burnt on the altar. When God saw
+an animal thus butchered, and smelt the warm blood mingled with the
+odor of burning flesh, he was pacified, and the smile of
+forgiveness shed its light upon his face. Of course, infidels laugh
+at these things; but what can you expect of men who have not been
+"born "again"? "The carnal mind is enmity with God."
+<i>Question</i>. What else did God do in order to induce Pharaoh to
+liberate the Jews?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He had his agents throw down a cane in the
+presence of Pharaoh and thereupon Jehovah changed this cane into a
+serpent.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did this convince Pharaoh?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; he sent for his own magicians.
+<i>Question</i>. What did they do?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They threw down some canes and they also were
+changed into serpents.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did Jehovah change the canes of the Egyptian
+magicians into snakes?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I suppose he did, as he is the only one capable
+of performing such a miracle.</p>
+<center>382</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If the rod of Aaron was changed into a serpent
+in order to convince Pharaoh that God had sent Aaron and Moses, why
+did God change the sticks of the Egyptian magicians into
+serpents&mdash;why did he discredit his own agents, and render
+worthless their only credentials?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, we cannot explain the conduct of Jehovah;
+we are perfectly satisfied that it was for the best. Even in this
+age of the world God allows infidels to overwhelm his chosen people
+with arguments; he allows them to discover facts that his ministers
+can not answer, and yet we are satisfied that in the end God will
+give the victory to us. All these things are tests of faith. It is
+upon this principle that God allows geology to laugh at Genesis,
+that he permits astronomy apparently to contradict his holy
+word.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did God do with these people after Pharaoh
+allowed them to go?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Finding that they were not fit to settle a new
+country, owing to the fact that when hungry they longed for food,
+and sometimes when their lips were cracked with thirst insisted on
+having water, God in his infinite mercy had them marched round and
+round, back and forth, through a barren wilder</p>
+<center>383</center>
+<p>ness, until all, with the exception of two persons, died.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why did he do this?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because he had promised these people that he
+would take them "to a land flowing with "milk and honey."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was God always patient and kind and merciful
+toward his children while they were in the wilderness?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, he always was merciful and kind and patient.
+Infidels have taken the ground that he visited them with plagues
+and disease and famine; that he had them bitten by serpents, and
+now and then allowed the ground to swallow a few thousands of them,
+and in other ways saw to it that they were kept as comfortable and
+happy as was consistent with good government; but all these things
+were for their good; and the fact is, infidels have no real sense
+of justice.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How did God happen to treat the Israelites in
+this way, when he had promised Abraham that he would take care of
+his progeny, and when he had promised the same to the poor wretches
+while they were slaves in Egypt?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because God is unchangeable in his na</p>
+<center>384</center>
+<p>ture, and wished to convince them that every being should be
+perfectly faithful to his promise.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was God driven to madness by the conduct of his
+chosen people?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Almost.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know exactly what they would do when he
+chose them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Exactly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were the Jews guilty of idolatry?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They were. They worshiped other gods &mdash;gods
+made of wood and stone.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not wonderful that they were not
+convinced of the power of God, by the many miracles wrought in
+Egypt and in the wilderness?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, it is very wonderful; but the Jews, who must
+have seen bread rained from heaven; who saw water gush from the
+rocks and follow them up hill and down; who noticed that their
+clothes did not wear out, and did not even get shiny at the knees,
+while the elbows defied the ravages of time, and their shoes
+remained perfect for forty years; it is wonderful that when they
+saw the ground open and swallow their comrades; when they saw God
+talking face to face with Moses as a man talks with his friend;
+after they saw the cloud by day and the</p>
+<center>385</center>
+<p>pillar of fire by night,&mdash;it is absolutely astonishing that
+they had more faith in a golden calf that they made themselves,
+than in Jehovah.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How is it that the Jews had no confidence in
+these miracles?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because they were there and saw them.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that it is necessary for us to
+believe all the miracles of the Old Testament in order to be
+saved?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The Old Testament is the foundation of the New.
+If the Old Testament is not inspired, then the New is of no value.
+If the Old Testament is inspired, all the miracles are true, and we
+cannot believe that God would allow any errors, or false
+statements, to creep into an inspired volume, and to be perpetuated
+through all these years.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Should we believe the miracles, whether they
+are reasonable or not?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly; if they were reasonable, they would
+not be miracles. It is their unreasonableness that appeals to our
+credulity and our faith. It is impossible to have theological faith
+in anything that can be demonstrated. It is the office of faith to
+believe, not only without evidence, but in spite of evidence. It is
+impossible for the carnal mind to</p>
+<center>386</center>
+<p>believe that Samsons muscle depended upon the length of his
+hair. "God has made the wisdom of "this world foolishness." Neither
+can the unconverted believe that Elijah stopped at a hotel kept by
+ravens. Neither can they believe that a barrel would in and of
+itself produce meal, or that an earthen pot could create oil. But
+to a Christian, in order that a widow might feed a preacher, the
+truth of these stories is perfectly apparent.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How should we regard the wonderful stories of
+the Old Testament?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They should be looked upon as "types" and
+"symbols." They all have a spiritual significance. The reason I
+believe the story of Jonah is, that Jonah is a type of Christ.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you believe the story of Jonah to be a true
+account of a literal fact?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly. You must remember that Jonah was not
+swallowed by a whale. God "pre"pared a great fish" for that
+occasion. Neither is it by any means certain that Jonah was in the
+belly of this whale. "He probably stayed in his mouth." Even if he
+was in his stomach, it was very easy for him to defy the ordinary
+action of gastric juice by rapidly walking up and down..</p>
+<center>387</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Jonah was really in the
+whale's stomach?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. My own opinion is that he stayed in his mouth.
+The only objection to this theory is, that it is more reasonable
+than the other and requires less faith. Nothing could be easier
+than for God to make a fish large enough to furnish ample room for
+one passenger in his mouth. I throw out this suggestion simply that
+you may be able to answer the objections of infidels who are always
+laughing at this story.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you really believe that Elijah went to
+heaven in a chariot of fire, drawn by horses of fire?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What was this miracle performed for?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. To convince the people of the power of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Who saw the miracle?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Nobody but Elisha.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was he convinced before that time?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Oh yes; he was one of God's prophets.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose that in these days two men should leave
+a town together, and after a while one of them should come back
+having on the clothes of the other, and should account for the fact
+that he had</p>
+<center>388</center>
+<p>his friend's clothes by saying that while they were going along
+the road together a chariot of fire came down from heaven drawn by
+fiery steeds, and thereupon his friend got into the carriage, threw
+him his clothes, and departed,&mdash;would you believe it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course things like that don't happen in these
+days; God does not have to rely on wonders now.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you mean that he performs no miracles at the
+present day?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We cannot say that he does not perform miracles
+now, but we are not in position to call attention to any particular
+one. Of course he supervises the affairs of nations and men and
+does whatever in his judgment is necessary.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Samson's strength depended on
+the length of his hair?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The Bible so states, and the Bible is true. A
+physiologist might say that a man could not use the muscle in his
+hair for lifting purposes, but these same physiologists could not
+tell you how you move a finger, nor how you lift a feather; still,
+actuated by the pride of intellect, they insist that the length of
+a man's hair could not determine his strength. God says it did; the
+physiologist says that it did not; we</p>
+<center>389</center>
+<p>can not hesitate whom to believe. For the purpose of avoiding
+eternal agony I am willing to believe anything; I am willing to say
+that strength depends upon the length of hair, or faith upon the
+length of ears. I am perfectly willing to believe that a man caught
+three hundred foxes, and put fire brands between their tails; that
+he slew thousands with a bone, and that he made a bee hive out of a
+lion. I will believe, if necessary, that when this man's hair was
+short he hardly had strength enough to stand, and that when it was
+long, he could carry away the gates of a city, or overthrow a
+temple filled with people. If the infidel is right, I will lose
+nothing by believing, but if he is wrong, I shall gain an eternity
+of joy. If God did not intend that we should believe these stories,
+he never would have told them, and why should a man put his soul in
+peril by trying to disprove one of the statements of the Lord?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose it should turn out that some of these
+miracles depend upon mistranslations of the original Hebrew, should
+we still believe them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The safe side is the best side. It is far better
+to err on the side of belief, than on the side of infidelity. God
+does not threaten anybody with eternal punishment for believing too
+much.</p>
+<center>390</center>
+<p>Danger lies on the side of investigation, on the side of
+thought. The perfectly idiotic are absolutely safe. As they diverge
+from that point,&mdash;as they rise in the intellectual scale, as
+the brain develops, as the faculties enlarge, the danger increases.
+I know that some biblical students now take the ground that Samson
+caught no foxes,&mdash;that he only took sheaves of wheat that had
+been already cut and bound, set them on fire, and threw them into
+the grain still standing. If this is what he did, of course there
+is nothing miraculous about it, and the value of the story is lost.
+So, others contend that Elijah was not fed by the ravens, but by
+the Arabs. They tell us that the Hebrew word standing for "Arab"
+also stands for "bird," and that the word really means
+"migratory&mdash;going from place to place&mdash;homeless." But I
+prefer the old version. It certainly will do no harm to believe
+that ravens brought bread and flesh to a prophet of God. Where they
+got their bread and flesh is none of my business; how they knew
+where the prophet was, and recognized him; or how God talks to
+ravens, or how he gave them directions, I have no right to inquire.
+I leave these questions to the scientists, the blasphemers, and
+thinkers. There are many people in the church anxious to</p>
+<center>391</center>
+<p>get the miracles out of the Bible, and thousands, I have no
+doubt, would be greatly gratified to learn that there is, in fact,
+nothing miraculous in Scripture; but when you take away the
+miraculous, you take away the supernatural; when you take away the
+supernatural, you destroy the ministry; and when you take away the
+ministry, hundreds of thousands of men will be left without
+employment.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not wonderful that the Egyptians were not
+converted by the miracles wrought in their country?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, they all would have been, if God had not
+purposely hardened their hearts to prevent it. Jehovah always took
+great delight in furnishing the evidence, and then hardening the
+man's heart so that he would not believe it. After all the miracles
+that had been performed in Egypt,&mdash;the most wonderful that
+were ever done in any country, the Egyptians were as unbelieving as
+at first; they pursued the Israelites, knowing that they were
+protected by an infinite God, and failing to overwhelm them, came
+back and worshiped their own false gods just as firmly as before.
+All of which shows the unreasonableness of a Pagan, and the natural
+depravity of human nature.</p>
+<center>392</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How did it happen that the Canaanites were
+never convinced that the Jews were assisted by Jehovah?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They must have been an exceedingly brave people
+to contend so many years with the chosen people of God.
+Notwithstanding all their cities were burned time and time again;
+notwithstanding all the men, women and children were put to the
+edge of the sword; notwithstanding the taking of all their cattle
+and sheep, they went right on fighting just as valiantly and
+desperately as ever. Each one lost his life many times, and was
+just as ready for the next conflict. My own opinion is, that God
+kept them alive by raising them from the dead after each battle,
+for the purpose of punishing the Jews. God used his enemies as
+instruments for the civilization of the Jewish people. He did not
+wish to convert them, because they would give him much more trouble
+as Jews than they did as Canaanites. He had all the Jews he could
+conveniently take care of. He found it much easier to kill a
+hundred Canaanites than to civilize one Jew.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you account for the fact that the
+heathen were not surprised at the stopping of the sun and moon?</p>
+<center>393</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They were so ignorant that they had not the
+slightest conception of the real cause of the phenomenon. Had they
+known the size of the earth, and the relation it sustained to the
+other heavenly bodies; had they known the magnitude of the sun, and
+the motion of the moon, they would, in all probability, have been
+as greatly astonished as the Jews were; but being densely ignorant
+of astronomy, it must have produced upon them not the slightest
+impression. But we must remember that the sun and moon were not
+stopped for the purpose of converting these people, but to give
+Joshua more time to kill them. As soon as we see clearly the
+purpose of Jehovah, we instantly perceive how admirable were the
+means adopted.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you not consider the treatment of the
+Canaanites to have been cruel and ferocious?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. To a totally depraved man, it does look cruel; to
+a being without any good in him,&mdash;to one who has inherited the
+rascality of many generations, the murder of innocent women and
+little children does seem horrible; to one who is "contaminated in
+"all his parts," by original sin,&mdash;who was "conceived "in sin,
+and brought forth in iniquity," the assassination of men, and the
+violation of captive maidens,</p>
+<center>394</center>
+<p>do not seem consistent with infinite goodness. But when one has
+been "born again," when "the love "of God has been shed abroad in
+his heart," when he loves all mankind, when he "overcomes evil with
+"good," when he "prays for those who despite"fully use him and
+persecute him,"&mdash;to such a man, the extermination of the
+Canaanites, the violation of women, the slaughter of babes, and the
+destruction of countless thousands, is the highest evidence of the
+goodness, the mercy, and the long-suffering of God. When a man has
+been "born again," all the passages of the Old Testament that
+appear so horrible and so unjust to one in his natural state,
+become the dearest, the most consoling, and the most beautiful of
+truths. The real Christian reads the accounts of these ancient
+battles with the greatest possible satisfaction. To one who really
+loves his enemies, the groans of men, the shrieks of women, and the
+cries of babes, make music sweeter than the zephyr's breath.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. In your judgment, why did God destroy the
+Canaanites?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. To prevent their contaminating his chosen people.
+He knew that if the Jews were allowed to live with such neighbors,
+they would</p>
+<center>395</center>
+<p>finally become as bad as the Canaanites themselves. He wished to
+civilize his chosen people, and it was therefore necessary for him
+to destroy the heathen.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did God succeed in civilizing the Jews after he
+had "removed" the Canaanites?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, not entirely. He had to allow the heathen
+he had not destroyed to overrun the whole land and make captives of
+the Jews. This was done for the good of his chosen people.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he then succeed in civilizing them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Not quite.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he ever quite succeed in civilizing
+them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, we must admit that the experiment never was
+a conspicuous success. The Jews were chosen by the Almighty 430
+years before he appeared to Moses on Mount Sinai. He was their
+direct Governor. He attended personally to their religion and
+politics, and gave up a great part of his valuable time for about
+two thousand years, to the management of their affairs; and yet,
+such was the condition of the Jewish people, after they had had all
+these advantages, that when there arose among them a perfectly
+kind, just, generous and honest man, these people, with whom God
+had been laboring for so</p>
+<center>396</center>
+<p>many centuries, deliberately put to death that good and loving
+man.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that God really endeavored to
+civilize the Jews?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This is an exceedingly hard question. If he had
+really tried to do it, of course he could have done it. We must not
+think of limiting the power of the infinite. But you must remember
+that if he had succeeded in civilizing the Jews, if he had educated
+them up to the plane of intellectual liberty, and made them just
+and kind and merciful, like himself, they would not have crucified
+Christ, and you can see at once the awful condition in which we
+would all be to-day. No atonement could have been made; and if no
+atonement had been made, then, according to the Christian system,
+the whole world would have been lost. We must admit that there was
+no time in the history of the Jews from Sinai to Jerusalem, that
+they would not have put a man like Christ to death.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. So you think that, after all, it was not God's
+intention that the Jews should become civilized?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We do not know. We can only say that "God's ways
+are not our ways." It may be that God took them in his special
+charge, for the</p>
+<center>397</center>
+<p>purpose of keeping them bad enough to make the necessary
+sacrifice. That may have been the divine plan. In any event, it is
+safer to believe the explanation that is the most unreasonable.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Christ knew the Jews would
+crucify him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that when he chose Judas he knew
+that he would betray him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know when Judas went to the chief priest
+and made the bargain for the delivery of Christ?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why did he allow himself to be betrayed, if he
+knew the plot?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Infidelity is a very good doctrine to live by,
+but you should read the last words of Paine and Voltaire.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If Christ knew that Judas would betray him, why
+did he choose him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Nothing can exceed the atrocities of the French
+Revolution&mdash;when they carried a woman through the streets and
+worshiped her as the goddess of Reason.</p>
+<center>398</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would not the mission of Christ have been a
+failure had no one betrayed him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Thomas Paine was a drunkard, and recanted on his
+death-bed, and died a blaspheming infidel besides.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not clear that an atonement was
+necessary; and is it not equally clear that the atonement could not
+have been made unless somebody had betrayed Christ; and unless the
+Jews had been wicked and orthodox enough to crucify him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course the atonement had to be made. It was a
+part of the "divine plan" that Christ should be betrayed, and that
+the Jews should be wicked enough to kill him. Otherwise, the world
+would have been lost.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose Judas had understood the divine plan,
+what ought he to have done? Should he have betrayed Christ, or let
+somebody else do it; or should he have allowed the world to perish,
+including his own soul?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If you take the Bible away from the world, "how
+would it be possible to have witnesses "sworn in courts;" how would
+it be possible to administer justice?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If Christ had not been betrayed and</p>
+<center>399</center>
+<p>crucified, is it true that his own mother would be in perdition
+to-day?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Most assuredly. There was but one way by which
+she could be saved, and that was by the death of her
+son&mdash;through the blood of the atonement. She was totally
+depraved through the sin of Adam, and deserved eternal death. Even
+her love for the infant Christ was, in the sight of God,&mdash;
+that is to say, of her babe,&mdash;wickedness. It can not be
+repeated too often that there is only one way to be saved, and that
+is, to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Could Christ have prevented the Jews from
+crucifying him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He could.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If he could have saved his life and did not,
+was he not guilty of suicide?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No one can understand these questions who has not
+read the prophecies of Daniel, and has not a clear conception of
+what is meant by "the full"ness of time."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What became of all the Canaanites, the
+Egyptians, the Hindus, the Greeks and Romans and Chinese? What
+became of the billions who died before the promise was made to
+Abraham; of the</p>
+<center>400</center>
+<p>billions and billions who never heard of the Bible, who never
+heard the name, even, of Jesus Christ&mdash; never knew of "the
+scheme of salvation"? What became of the millions and billions who
+lived in this hemisphere, and of whose existence Jehovah himself
+seemed perfectly ignorant?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. They were undoubtedly lost. God having made them,
+had a right to do with them as he pleased. They are probably all in
+hell to-day, and the fact that they are damned, only adds to the
+joy of the redeemed. It is by contrast that we are able to perceive
+the infinite kindness with which God has treated us.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not possible that something can be done
+for a human soul in another world as well as in this?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; this is the only world in which God even
+attempts to reform anybody. In the other world, nothing is done for
+the purpose of making anybody better. Here in this world, where man
+lives but a few days, is the only opportunity for moral
+improvement. A minister can do a thousand times more for a soul
+than its creator; and this country is much better adapted to moral
+growth than heaven itself. A person who lived on this earth a</p>
+<center>401</center>
+<p>few years, and died without having been converted, has no hope
+in another world. The moment he arrives at the judgment seat,
+nothing remains but to damn him. Neither God, nor the Holy Ghost,
+nor Jesus Christ, can have the least possible influence with him
+there.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. When God created each human being, did he know
+exactly what would be his eternal fate?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Most assuredly he did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know that hundreds and millions and
+billions would suffer eternal pain?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly. But he gave them freedom of choice
+between good and evil.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know exactly how they would use that
+freedom?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know that billions would use it
+wrong?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was it optional with him whether he should make
+such people or not?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Had these people any option as to whether they
+would be made or not?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>, No.</p>
+<center>402</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would it not have been far better to leave them
+unconscious dust?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. These questions show how foolish it is to judge
+God according to a human standard. What to us seems just and
+merciful, God may regard in an exactly opposite light; and we may
+hereafter be developed to such a degree that we will regard the
+agonies of the damned as the highest possible evidence of the
+goodness and mercy of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you account for the fact that God did
+not make himself known except to Abraham and his descendants? Why
+did he fail to reveal himself to the other nations&mdash;nations
+that, compared with the Jews, were learned, cultivated and
+powerful? Would you regard a revelation now made to the Esquimaux
+as intended for us; and would it be a revelation of which we would
+be obliged to take notice?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course, God could have revealed himself, not
+only to all the great nations, but to each individual. He could
+have had the Ten Commandments engraved on every heart and brain; or
+he could have raised up prophets in every land; but he chose,
+rather, to allow countless millions of his children to wander in
+the darkness and blackness of</p>
+<center>403</center>
+<p>Nature; chose, rather, that they should redden their hands in
+each other's blood; chose, rather, that they should live without
+light, and die without hope; chose, rather, that they should
+suffer, not only in this world, but forever in the next. Of course
+we have no right to find fault with the choice of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Now you can tell a sinner to "believe "on the
+Lord Jesus Christ;" what could a sinner have been told in Egypt,
+three thousand years ago; and in what language would you have
+addressed a Hindu in the days of Buddha&mdash;the "divine scheme"
+at that time being a secret in the divine breast?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is not for us to think upon these questions.
+The moment we examine the Christian system, we begin to doubt. In a
+little while, we shall be infidels, and shall lose the respect of
+those who refuse to think. It is better to go with the majority.
+These doctrines are too sacred to be touched. You should be
+satisfied with the religion of your father and your mother. "You
+want some book on the "centre-table," in the parlor; it is
+extremely handy to have a Family Record; and what book, other than
+the Bible, could a mother give a son as he leaves the old
+homestead?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not wonderful that all the writers</p>
+<center>404</center>
+<p>of the four gospels do not give an account of the ascension of
+Jesus Christ?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This question has been answered long ago, time
+and time again.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Perhaps it has, but would it not be well enough
+to answer it once more? Some may not have seen the answer?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Show me the hospitals that infidels have built;
+show me the asylums that infidels have founded.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. I know you have given the usual answer; but
+after all, is it not singular that a miracle so wonderful as the
+bodily ascension of a man, should not have been mentioned by all
+the writers of that man's life? Is it not wonderful that some of
+them said that he did ascend, and others that he agreed to stay
+with his disciples always?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. People unacquainted with the Hebrew, can have no
+conception of these things. A story in plain English, does not
+sound as it does in Hebrew. Miracles seem altogether more credible,
+when told in a dead language.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What, in your judgment, became of the dead who
+were raised by Christ? Is it not singular that they were never
+mentioned afterward?</p>
+<center>405</center>
+<p>Would not a man who had been raised from the dead naturally be
+an object of considerable interest, especially to his friends and
+acquaintances? And is it not also wonderful that Christ, after
+having wrought so many miracles, cured so many lame and halt and
+blind, fed so many thousands miraculously, and after having entered
+Jerusalem in triumph as a conqueror and king, had to be pointed out
+by one of his own disciples who was bribed for the purpose?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course, all these things are exceedingly
+wonderful, and if found in any other book, would be absolutely
+incredible; but we have no right to apply the same kind of
+reasoning to the Bible that we apply to the Koran or to the sacred
+books of the Hindus. For the ordinary affairs of this world, God
+has given us reason; but in the examination of religious questions,
+we should depend upon credulity and faith.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If Christ came to offer himself a sacrifice,
+for the purpose of making atonement for the sins of such as might
+believe on him, why did he not make this fact known to all of his
+disciples?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He did. This was, and is, the gospel.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How is it that Matthew says nothing about
+"salvation by faith," but simply says that God</p>
+<center>406</center>
+<p>will be merciful to the merciful, that he will forgive the
+forgiving, and says not one word about the necessity of believing
+anything?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. But you will remember that Mark says, in the last
+chapter of his gospel, that "whoso be"lieveth not shall be
+damned."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you admit that Matthew says nothing on the
+subject?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, I suppose I must.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is not that passage in Mark generally admitted
+to be an interpolation?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Some biblical scholars say that it is.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is that portion of the last chapter of Mark
+found in the Syriac version of the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If it was necessary to believe on Jesus Christ,
+in order to be saved, how is it that Matthew failed to say so?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. "There are more copies of the Bible "printed
+to-day, than of any other book in the world, "and it is printed in
+more languages than any other "book."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you consider it necessary to be
+"regenerated"&mdash;to be "born again"&mdash;in order to be
+saved?</p>
+<center>407</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did Matthew say anything on the subject of
+"regeneration"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did Mark?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did Luke?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is Saint John the only one who speaks of the
+necessity of being "born again"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He is.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Matthew, Mark and Luke knew
+anything about the necessity of "regen"eration"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course they did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why did they fail to speak of it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. There is no civilization without the Bible. The
+moment you throw away the sacred Scriptures, you are all at
+sea&mdash;you are without an anchor and without a compass.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You will remember that, according to Mark,
+Christ said to his disciples: "Go ye into all "the world, and
+preach the gospel to every creature." Did he refer to the gospel
+set forth by Mark?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he did.</p>
+<center>408</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Well, in the gospel set forth by Mark, there is
+not a word about "regeneration," and no word about the necessity of
+believing anything&mdash;except in an interpolated passage. Would
+it not seem from this, that "regeneration" and a "belief in the
+"Lord Jesus Christ," are no part of the gospel?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Nothing can exceed in horror the last moments of
+the infidel; nothing can be more terrible than the death of the
+doubter. When the glories of this world fade from the vision; when
+ambition becomes an empty name; when wealth turns to dust in the
+palsied hand of death, of what use is philosophy then? Who cares
+then for the pride of intellect? In that dread moment, man needs
+something to rely on, whether it is true or not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would it not have been more convincing if
+Christ, after his resurrection, had shown himself to his enemies as
+well as to his friends? Would it not have greatly strengthened the
+evidence in the case, if he had visited Pilate; had presented
+himself before Caiaphas, the high priest; if he had again entered
+the temple, and again walked the streets of Jerusalem?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If the evidence had been complete and
+overwhelming, there would have been no praise</p>
+<center>409</center>
+<p>worthiness in belief; even publicans and sinners would have
+believed, if the evidence had been sufficient. The amount of
+evidence required is the test of the true Christian spirit.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would it not also have been better had the
+ascension taken place in the presence of unbelieving thousands; it
+seems such a pity to have wasted such a demonstration upon those
+already convinced?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. These questions are the natural fruit of the
+carnal mind, and can be accounted for only by the doctrine of total
+depravity. Nothing has given the church more trouble than just such
+questions. Unholy curiosity, a disposition to pry into the divine
+mysteries, a desire to know, to investigate, to explain &mdash;in
+short, to understand, are all evidences of a reprobate mind.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How can we account for the fact that Matthew
+alone speaks of the wise men of the East coming with gifts to the
+infant Christ; that he alone speaks of the little babes being
+killed by Herod? Is it possible that the other writers never heard
+of these things?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Nobody can get any good out of the Bible by
+reading it in a critical spirit. The contra</p>
+<center>410</center>
+<p>dictions and discrepancies are only apparent, and melt away
+before the light of faith. That which in other books would be
+absolute and palpable contradiction, is, in the Bible, when
+spiritually discerned, a perfect and beautiful harmony. My own
+opinion is, that seeming contradictions are in the Bible for the
+purpose of testing and strengthening the faith of Christians, and
+for the further purpose of ensnaring infidels, "that they might
+believe a lie and be damned." <i>Question</i>. Is it possible that
+a good God would take pains to deceive his children?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The Bible is filled with instances of that kind,
+and all orthodox ministers now know that fossil animals&mdash;that
+is, representations of animals in stone, were placed in the rocks
+on purpose to mislead men like Darwin and Humboldt, Huxley and
+Tyndall. It is also now known that God, for the purpose of
+misleading the so-called men of science, had hairy elephants
+preserved in ice, made stomachs for them, and allowed twigs of
+trees to be found in these stomachs, when, as a matter of fact, no
+such elephants ever lived or ever died. These men who are
+endeavoring to overturn the Scriptures with the lever of science
+will find that they have been deceived. Through all eternity they
+will regret their</p>
+<center>411</center>
+<p>philosophy. They will wish, in the next world, that they had
+thrown away geology and physiology and all other "ologies" except
+theology. The time is coming when Jehovah will "mock at their fears
+and "laugh at their calamity."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If Joseph was not the father of Christ, why was
+his genealogy given to show that Christ was of the blood of David;
+why would not the genealogy of any other Jew have done as well?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. That objection was raised and answered hundreds
+of years ago.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If they wanted to show that Christ was of the
+blood of David, why did they not give the genealogy of his mother
+if Joseph was not his father?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. That objection was answered hundreds of years
+ago.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How was it answered?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. When Voltaire was dying, he sent for a
+priest.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How does it happen that the two genealogies
+given do not agree?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Perhaps they were written by different
+persons.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were both these persons inspired by the same
+God?</p>
+<center>412</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why were the miracles recorded in the New
+Testament performed?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The miracles were the evidence relied on to prove
+the supernatural origin and the divine mission of Jesus Christ.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Aside from the miracles, is there any evidence
+to show the supernatural origin or character of Jesus Christ?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Some have considered that his moral precepts are
+sufficient, of themselves, to show that he was divine.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Had all of his moral precepts been taught
+before he lived?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The same things had been said, but they did not
+have the same meaning.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Does the fact that Buddha taught the same tend
+to show that he was of divine origin?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly not. The rules of evidence applicable
+to the Bible are not applicable to other books. We examine other
+books in the light of reason; the Bible is the only exception. So,
+we should not judge of Christ as we do of any other man.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Christ wrought</p>
+<center>413</center>
+<p>many of his miracles because he was good, charitable, and filled
+with pity?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Has he as much power now as he had when on
+earth?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Most assuredly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is he as charitable and pitiful now, as he was
+then?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why does he not now cure the lame and the halt
+and the blind?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is well known that, when Julian the Apostate
+was dying, catching some of his own blood in his hand and throwing
+it into the air he exclaimed: "Galileean, thou hast conquered!"</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you consider it our duty to love our
+neighbor?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is virtue the same in all worlds?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Most assuredly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are we under obligation to render good for
+evil, and to "pray for those who despitefully use us"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Will Christians in heaven love their
+neighbors?</p>
+<center>414</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Y es; if their neighbors are not in hell.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do good Christians pity sinners in this
+world?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because they regard them as being in great danger
+of the eternal wrath of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. After these sinners have died, and been sent to
+hell, will the Christians in heaven then pity them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. Angels have no pity.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If we are under obligation to love our enemies,
+is not God under obligation to love his? If we forgive our enemies,
+ought not God to forgive his? If we forgive those who injure us,
+ought not God to forgive those who have not injured him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. God made us, and he has therefore the right to do
+with us as he pleases. Justice demands that he should damn all of
+us, and the few that he will save will be saved through mercy and
+without the slightest respect to anything they may have done
+themselves. Such is the justice of God, that those in hell will
+have no right to complain, and those in heaven will have no right
+to be there. Hell is justice, and salvation is charity.</p>
+<center>415</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you consider it possible for a law to be
+jusdy satisfied by the punishment of an innocent person?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Such is the scheme of the atonement. As man is
+held responsible for the sin of Adam, so he will be credited with
+the virtues of Christ; and you can readily see that one is exactly
+as reasonable as the other.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose a man honestly reads the New Testament,
+and honestly concludes that it is not an inspired book; suppose he
+honestly makes up his mind that the miracles are not true; that the
+devil never really carried Christ to the pinnacle of the temple;
+that devils were really never cast out of a man and allowed to take
+refuge in swine;&mdash;I say, suppose that he is honestly convinced
+that these things are not true, what ought he to say?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He ought to say nothing.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose that the same man should read the
+Koran, and come to the conclusion that it is not an inspired book;
+what ought he to say?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He ought to say that it is not inspired; his
+fellow-men are entitled to his honest opinion, and it is his duty
+to do what he can do to destroy a pernicious superstition.</p>
+<center>416</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose then, that a reader of the Bible,
+having become convinced that it is not inspired&mdash; honestly
+convinced&mdash;says nothing&mdash;keeps his conclusion absolutely
+to himself, and suppose he dies in that belief, can he be
+saved?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Has the honesty of his belief anything to do
+with his future condition?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Nothing whatever.,</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose that he tried to believe, that he hated
+to disagree with his friends, and with his parents, but that in
+spite of himself he was forced to the conclusion that the Bible is
+not the inspired word of God, would he then deserve eternal
+punishment?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly he would.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Can a man control his belief?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He cannot&mdash;except as to the Bible.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you consider it just in God to create a man
+who cannot believe the Bible, and then damn him because he does
+not?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Such is my belief.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it your candid opinion that a man who does
+not believe the Bible should keep his belief a secret from his
+fellow-men?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is.</p>
+<center>417</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do I know that you believe the Bible? You
+have told me that if you did not believe it, you would not tell
+me?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. There is no way for you to ascertain, except by
+taking my word for it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What will be the fate of a man who does not
+believe it, and yet pretends to believe it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He will be damned.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then hypocrisy will not save him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. And if he does not believe it, and admits that
+he does not believe it, then his honesty will not save him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. Honesty on the wrong side is no better than
+hypocrisy on the right side.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do we know who wrote the gospels?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; we do.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are we absolutely sure who wrote them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course; we have the evidence as it has come to
+us through the Catholic Church.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Can we rely upon the Catholic Church now?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; assuredly no! But we have the testimony of
+Polycarp and Iren&aelig;us and Clement,</p>
+<center>418</center>
+<p>and others of the early fathers, together with that of the
+Christian historian, Eusebius.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do we really know about Polycarp?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We know that he suffered martyrdom under Marcus
+Aurelius, and that for quite a time the fire refused to burn his
+body, the flames arching over him, leaving him in a kind of fiery
+tent; and we also know that from his body came a fragrance like
+frankincense, and that the Pagans were so exasperated at seeing the
+miracle, that one of them thrust a sword through the body of
+Polycarp; that the blood flowed out and extinguished the flames and
+that out of the wound flew the soul of the martyr in the form of a
+dove.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is that all we know about Polycarp?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, with the exception of a few more like
+incidents.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do we know that Polycarp ever met St. John?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; Eusebius says so.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are we absolutely certain that he ever
+lived?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, or Eusebius could not have written about
+him.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do we know anything of the character of
+Eusebius?</p>
+<center>419</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; we know that he was untruthful only when he
+wished to do good. But God can use even the dishonest. Other books
+have to be substantiated by truthful men, but such is the power of
+God, that he can establish the inspiration of the Bible by the most
+untruthful witnesses. If God's witnesses were honest, anybody could
+believe, and what becomes of faith, one of the greatest
+virtues?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is the New Testament now the same as it was in
+the days of the early fathers?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly not. Many books now thrown out, and not
+esteemed of divine origin, were esteemed divine by Polycarp and
+Iren&aelig;us and Clement and many of the early churches. These
+books are now called "apocryphal."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have you not the same witnesses in favor of
+their authenticity, that you have in favor of the gospels?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Precisely the same. Except that they were thrown
+out.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why were they thrown out?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because the Catholic Church did not esteem them
+inspired.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did the Catholics decide for us which are the
+true gospels and which are the true epistles?</p>
+<center>420</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes. The Catholic Church was then the only
+church, and consequently must have been the true church.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How did the Catholic Church select the true
+books?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Councils were called, and votes were taken, very
+much as we now pass resolutions in political meetings.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was the Catholic Church infallible then?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It was then, but it is not now.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If the Catholic Church at that time had thrown
+out the book of Revelation, would it now be our duty to believe
+that book to have been inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No, I suppose not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not true that some of these books were
+adopted by exceedingly small majorities?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If the Epistle to the Hebrews and to the
+Romans, and the book of Revelation had been thrown out, could a man
+now be saved who honestly believes the rest of the books?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This is doubtful.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Were the men who picked out the inspired books
+inspired?</p>
+<center>421</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We cannot tell, but the probability is that they
+were.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do we know that they picked out the right
+ones?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, not exactly, but we believe that they
+did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are we certain that some of the books that were
+thrown out were not inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, the only way to tell is to read them
+carefully.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If upon reading these apocryphal books a man
+concludes that they are not inspired, will he be damned for that
+reason?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. Certainly not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If he concludes that some of them are inspired,
+and believes them, will he then be damned for that belief?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Oh, no! Nobody is ever damned for believing too
+much.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Does the fact that the books now comprising the
+New Testament were picked out by the Catholic Church prevent their
+being examined now by an honest man, as they were examined at the
+time they were picked out?</p>
+<center>422</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; not if the man comes to the conclusion that
+they are inspired.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Does the fact that the Catholic Church picked
+them out and declared them to be inspired, render it a crime to
+examine them precisely as you would examine the books that the
+Catholic Church threw out and declared were not inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I think it does.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. At the time the council was held in which it
+was determined which of the books of the New Testament are
+inspired, a respectable minority voted against some that were
+finally decided to be inspired. If they were honest in the vote
+they gave, and died without changing their opinions, are they now
+in hell?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, they ought to be.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If those who voted to leave the book of
+Revelation out of the canon, and the gospel of Saint John out of
+the canon, believed honestly that these were not inspired books,
+how should they have voted?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, I suppose a man ought to vote as he
+honestly believes&mdash;except in matters of religion.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If the Catholic Church was not infallible, is
+the question still open as to what books are, and what are not,
+inspired?</p>
+<center>423</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I suppose the question is still open&mdash; but
+it would be dangerous to decide it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If, then, I examine all the books again, and
+come to the conclusion that some that were thrown out were
+inspired, and some that were accepted were not inspired, ought I to
+say so?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Not if it is contrary to the faith of your
+father, or calculated to interfere with your own political
+prospects.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it as great a sin to admit into the Bible
+books that are uninspired as to reject those that are inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, it is a crime to reject an inspired book,
+no matter how unsatisfactory the evidence is for its inspiration,
+but it is not a crime to receive an uninspired book. God damns
+nobody for believing too much. An excess of credulity is simply to
+err in the direction of salvation.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose a man disbelieves in the inspiration of
+the New Testament&mdash;believes it to be entirely the work of
+uninspired men; and suppose he also believes&mdash;but not from any
+evidence obtained in the New Testament&mdash;that Jesus Christ was
+the son of God, and that he made atonement for his soul, can he
+then be saved without a belief in the inspiration of the Bible?</p>
+<center>424</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This has not yet been decided by our church, and
+I do not wish to venture an opinion.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose a man denies the inspiration of the
+Scriptures; suppose that he also denies the divinity of Jesus
+Christ; and suppose, further, that he acts precisely as Christ is
+said to have acted; suppose he loves his enemies, prays for those
+who despitefully use him, and does all the good he possibly can, is
+it your opinion that such a man will be saved?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No, sir. There is "none other name "given under
+heaven and among men," whereby a sinner can be saved but the name
+of Christ.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then it is your opinion that God would save a
+murderer who believed in Christ, and would damn another man,
+exactly like Christ, who failed to believe in him?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; because we have the blessed promise that,
+out of Christ, "our God is a consuming "fire."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose a man read the Bible carefully and
+honestly, and was not quite convinced that it was true, and that
+while examining the subject, he died; what then?</p>
+<center>425</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I do not believe that God would allow him to
+examine the matter in another world, or to make up his mind in
+heaven. Of course, he would eternally perish.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Could Christ now furnish evidence enough to
+convince every human being of the truth of the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he could, because he is infinite.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are any miracles performed now?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Oh, no!</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have we any testimony, except human testimony,
+to substantiate any miracle?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Only human testimony.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do all men give the same force to the same
+evidence?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. By no means.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have all honest men who have examined the Bible
+believed it to be inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course they have. Infidels are not honest.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Could any additional evidence have been
+furnished?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. With perfect ease.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would God allow a soul to suffer</p>
+<center>426</center>
+<p>eternal agony rather than furnish evidence of the truth of his
+Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. God has furnished plenty of evidence, and
+altogether more than was really necessary. We should read the Bible
+in a believing spirit.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are all parts of the inspired books equally
+true?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Necessarily.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. According to Saint Matthew, God promises to
+forgive all who will forgive others; not one word is said about
+believing in Christ, or believing in the miracles, or in any Bible;
+did Matthew tell the truth?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The Bible must be taken as a whole; and if other
+conditions are added somewhere else, then you must comply with
+those other conditions. Matthew may not have stated all the
+conditions.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. I find in another part of the New Testament,
+that a young man came to Christ and asked him what was necessary
+for him to do in order that he might inherit eternal life. Christ
+did not tell him that he must believe the Bible, or that he must
+believe in him, or that he must keep the Sabbathday; was Christ
+honest with that young man?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, I suppose he was.</p>
+<center>427</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. You will also recollect that Zaccheus said to
+Christ, that where he had wronged any man he had made restitution,
+and further, that half his goods he had given to the poor; and you
+will remember that Christ said to Zaccheus: "This day "hath
+salvation come to thy house." Why did not Christ tell Zaccheus that
+he "must be born again;" that he must "believe on the Lord Jesus
+Christ"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course there are mysteries in our holy
+religion that only those who have been "born "again" can
+understand. You must remember that "the carnal mind is enmity with
+God."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it not strange that Christ, in his Sermon on
+the Mount, did not speak of "regeneration," or of the "scheme of
+salvation"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, it may be.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Can a man be saved now by living exactly in
+accordance with the Sermon on the Mount?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He can not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Would then a man, by following the course of
+conduct prescribed by Christ in the Sermon on the Mount, lose his
+soul?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He most certainly would, because there is not one
+word in the Sermon on the Mount about believing on the Lord Jesus
+Christ; not one word</p>
+<center>428</center>
+<p>about believing in the Bible; not one word about the
+"atonement;" not one word about "regeneration." So that, if the
+Presbyterian Church is right, it is absolutely certain that a man
+might follow the teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, and live in
+accordance with its every word, and yet deserve and receive the
+eternal condemnation of God. But we must remember that the Sermon
+on the Mount was preached before Christianity existed. Christ was
+talking to Jews.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did Christ write anything himself, in the New
+Testament?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Not a word.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he tell any of his disciples to write any
+of his words?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. There is no account of it, if he did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do we know whether any of the disciples wrote
+anything?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course they did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you know?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because the gospels bear their names.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are you satisfied that Christ was absolutely
+God?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he was. We believe that Christ and God
+and the Holy Ghost are all the same, that the three form one, and
+that each one is three.</p>
+<center>429</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was Christ the God of the universe at the time
+of his birth?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He certainly was.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Was he the infinite God, creator and controller
+of the entire universe, before he was born?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he was. This is the mystery of "God
+manifest in the flesh." The infidels have pretended that he was
+like any other child, and was in fact supported by Nature instead
+of being the supporter of Nature. They have insisted that like
+other children, he had to be cared for by his mother. Of course he
+appeared to be cared for by his mother. It was a part of the plan
+that in all respects he should appear to be like other
+children.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did he know just as much before he was born as
+after?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. If he was God of course he did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you account for the fact that Saint Luke
+tells us, in the last verse of the second chapter of his gospel,
+that "Jesus increased in wis"dom and stature"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. That I presume is a figure of speech; because, if
+he was God, he certainly could not have increased in wisdom. The
+physical part of him could</p>
+<center>430</center>
+<p>increase in stature, but the intellectual part must have been
+infinite all the time.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that Luke was mistaken?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No; I believe what Luke said. If it appears
+untrue, or impossible, then I know that it is figurative or
+symbolical.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did I understand you to say that Christ was
+actually God?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he was.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then why did Luke say in the same verse of the
+same chapter that "Jesus increased in "favor with God"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I dare you to go into a room by yourself and read
+the fourteenth chapter of Saint John!</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it necessary to understand the Bible in
+order to be saved?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly not; it is only necessary that you
+believe it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is it necessary to believe all the
+miracles?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It may not be necessary, but as it is impossible
+to tell which ones can safely be left out, you had better believe
+them all.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Then you regard belief as the safe way?</p>
+<center>431</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course it is better to be fooled in this world
+than to be damned in the next.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think that there are any cruelties on
+God's part recorded in the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. At first flush, many things done by God himself,
+as well as by his prophets, appear to be cruel; but if we examine
+them closely, we will find them to be exactly the opposite.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you explain the story of Elisha and the
+children,&mdash;where the two she-bears destroyed forty-two
+children on account of their impudence?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This miracle, in my judgment, establishes two
+things: 1. That children should be polite to ministers, and 2. That
+God is kind to animals&mdash; "giving them their meat in due
+season." These bears have been great educators&mdash;they are the
+foundation of the respect entertained by the young for theologians.
+No child ever sees a minister now without thinking of a bear.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you think of the story of
+Daniel&mdash;you no doubt remember it? Some men told the king that
+Daniel was praying contrary to law, and thereupon Daniel was cast
+into a den of lions; but the lions could not touch him, their
+mouths having been shut by angels. The next</p>
+<center>432</center>
+<p>morning, the king, finding that Daniel was still intact, had him
+taken out; and then, for the purpose of gratifying Daniels God, the
+king had all the men who had made the complaint against Daniel, and
+their wives and their little children, brought and cast into the
+lions' den. According to the account, the lions were so hungry that
+they caught these wives and children as they dropped, and broke all
+their bones in pieces before they had even touched the ground. Is
+it not wonderful that God failed to protect these innocent wives
+and children?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. These wives and children were heathen; they were
+totally depraved. And besides, they were used as witnesses. The
+fact that they were devoured with such quickness shows that the
+lions were hungry. Had it not been for this, infidels would have
+accounted for the safety of Daniel by saying that the lions had
+been fed.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you believe that Shadrach, Meshach and
+Abednego were cast "into a burning fiery furnace "heated one seven
+times hotter than it was wont to "be heated," and that they had on
+"their coats, their "hosen and their hats," and that when they came
+out "not a hair of their heads was singed, nor was "the smell of
+fire upon their garments"?</p>
+<center>433</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The evidence of this miracle is exceedingly
+satisfactory. It resulted in the conversion of Nebuchadnezzar.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you know he was converted?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because immediately after the miracle the king
+issued a decree that "every people, nation "and language that spoke
+anything amiss against "the God of Shadrach and Company, should be
+cut "in pieces." This decree shows that he had become a true
+disciple and worshiper of Jehovah.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If God in those days preserved from the fury of
+the fire men who were true to him and would not deny his name, why
+is it that he has failed to protect thousands of martyrs since that
+time?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. This is one of the divine mysteries. God has in
+many instances allowed his enemies to kill his friends. I suppose
+this was allowed for the good of his enemies, that the heroism of
+the martyrs might convert them.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you believe all the miracles?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I believe them all, because I believe the Bible
+to be inspired.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What makes you think it is inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I have never seen anybody who knew it was not;
+besides, my father and mother believed it.</p>
+<center>434</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have you any other reasons for believing it to
+be inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; there are more copies of the Bible printed
+than of any other book; and it is printed in more languages. And
+besides, it would be impossible to get along without it.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why could we not get along without it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. We would have nothing to swear witnesses by; no
+book in which to keep the family record; nothing for the
+centre-table, and nothing for a mother to give her son. No nation
+can be civilized without the Bible.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did God always know that a Bible was necessary
+to civilize a country?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly he did.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why did he not give a Bible to the Egyptians,
+the Hindus, the Greeks and the Romans?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It is astonishing what perfect fools infidels
+are.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why do you call infidels "fools"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because I find in the fifth chapter of the gospel
+according to Matthew the following: "Who"soever shall say 'Thou
+fool!' shall be in danger of "hell fire."</p>
+<center>435</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have I the right to read the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes. You not only have the right, but it is your
+duty.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. In reading the Bible the words make certain
+impressions on my mind. These impressions depend upon my
+brain,&mdash;upon my intelligence. Is not this true?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course, when you read the Bible, impressions
+are made upon your mind.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Can I control these impressions?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I do not think you can, as long as you remain in
+a sinful state.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How am I to get out of this sinful state?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. You must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and
+you must read the Bible in a prayerful spirit and with a believing
+heart.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose that doubts force themselves upon my
+mind?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Then you will know that you are a sinner, and
+that you are depraved.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If I have the right to read the Bible, have I
+the right to try to understand it?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Most assuredly.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you admit that I have the right to reason
+about it and to investigate it?</p>
+<center>436</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; I admit that. Of course you cannot help
+reasoning about what you read.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Does the right to read a book include the right
+to give your opinion as to the truth of what the book contains?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course,&mdash;if the book is not inspired.
+Infidels hate the Bible because it is inspired, and Christians know
+that it is inspired because infidels say that it is not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have I the right to decide for myself whether
+or not the book is inspired?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. You have no right to deny the truth of God's Holy
+Word.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is God the author of all books?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly not.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have I the right to say that God did not write
+the Koran?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because the Koran was written by an impostor.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you know?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. My reason tells me so.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have you the right to be guided by your
+reason?</p>
+<center>437</center>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I must be.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Have you the same right to follow your reason
+after reading the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. The Bible is the standard of reason. The
+Bible is not to be judged or corrected by your reason. Your reason
+is to be weighed and measured by the Bible. The Bible is different
+from other books and must not be read in the same critical spirit,
+nor judged by the same standard.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What did God give us reason for?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. So that we might investigate other religions, and
+examine other so-called sacred books.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. If a man honestly thinks that the Bible is not
+inspired, what should he say?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. He should admit that he is mistaken.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. When he thinks he is right?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes. The Bible is different from other books. It
+is the master of reason. You read the Bible, not to see if that is
+wrong, but to see whether your reason is right. It is the only book
+about which a man has no right to reason. He must believe. The
+Bible is addressed, not to the reason, but to the ears: "He that
+hath ears to hear, let "him hear."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think we have the right to tell</p>
+<center>438</center>
+<p>what the Bible means&mdash;what ideas God intended to convey, or
+has conveyed to us, through the medium of the Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, I suppose you have that right. Yes, that
+must be your duty. You certainly ought to tell others what God has
+said to you.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do all men get the same ideas from the
+Bible?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you account for that?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because all men are not alike; they differ in
+intellect, in education, and in experience.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Who has the right to decide as to the real
+ideas that God intended to convey?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I am a Protestant, and believe in the right of
+private judgment. Whoever does not is a Catholic. Each man must be
+his own judge, but God will hold him responsible.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Does God believe in the right of private
+judgment?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Of course he does.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is he willing that I should exercise my
+judgment in deciding whether the Bible is inspired or not?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. He believes in the exercise of</p>
+<center>439</center>
+<p>private judgment only in the examination and rejection of other
+books than the Bible.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Is he a Catholic?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. I cannot answer blasphemy! Let me tell you that
+God will "laugh at your calamity, and "will mock when your fear
+cometh." You will be accursed.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Why do you curse infidels?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Because I am a Christian.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Did not Christ say that we ought to "bless
+those who curse us," and that we should "love our enemies"?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, but he cursed the Pharisees and called them
+"hypocrites" and "vipers."</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How do you account for that?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. It simply shows the difference between theory and
+practice.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you consider the best way to answer
+infidels.</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The old way is the best. You should say that
+their arguments are ancient, and have been answered over and over
+again. If this does not satisfy your hearers, then you should
+attack the character of the infidel&mdash;then that of his
+parents&mdash; then that of his children.</p>
+<center>440</center>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Suppose that the infidel is a good man, how
+will you answer him then?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. But an infidel cannot be a good man. Even if he
+is, it is better that he should lose his reputation, than that
+thousands should lose their souls. We know that all infidels are
+vile and infamous. We may not have the evidence, but we know that
+it exists.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. How should infidels be treated? Should
+Christians try to convert them?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Christians should have nothing to do with
+infidels. It is not safe even to converse with them. They are
+always talking about reason, and facts, and experience. They are
+filled with sophistry and should be avoided.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Should Christians pray for the conversion of
+infidels?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes; but such prayers should be made in public
+and the name of the infidel should be given and his vile and
+hideous heart portrayed so that the young may be warned.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Whom do you regard as infidels?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The scientists&mdash;the geologists, the
+astronomers, the naturalists, the philosophers. No one can
+overestimate the evil that has been wrought</p>
+<center>441</center>
+<p>by Laplace, Humboldt, Darwin, Huxley, Haeckel, Renan, Emerson,
+Strauss, Bikhner, Tyndall, and their wretched followers. These men
+pretended to know more than Moses and the prophets. They were "dogs
+baying at the moon." They were "wolves" and "fools." They tried to
+"assassinate "God," and worse than all, they actually laughed at
+the clergy,</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you think they did, and are doing great
+harm?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Certainly. Of what use are all the sciences, if
+you lose your own soul? People in hell will care nothing about
+education. The rich man said nothing about science, he wanted
+water. Neither will they care about books and theories in heaven.
+If a man is perfectly happy, it makes no difference how ignorant he
+is.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. But how can he answer these scientists?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Well, my advice is to let their arguments alone.
+Of course, you will deny all their facts; but the most effective
+way is to attack their character.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. But suppose they are good men,&mdash; what
+then?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The better they are, the worse they are.</p>
+<center>442</center>
+<p>We cannot admit that the infidel is really good. He may appear
+to be good, and it is our duty to strip the mask of appearance from
+the face of unbelief. If a man is not a Christian, he is totally
+depraved, and why should we hesitate to make a misstatement about a
+man whom God is going to make miserable forever?</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Are we not commanded to love our enemies?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. Yes, but not the enemies of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. Do you fear the final triumph of
+infidelity?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. No. We have no fear. We believe that the Bible
+can be revised often enough to agree with anything that may really
+be necessary to the preservation of the church. We can always rely
+upon revision. Let me tell you that the Bible is the most peculiar
+of books. At the time God inspired his holy prophets to write it,
+he knew exactly what the discoveries and demonstrations of the
+future would be, and he wrote his Bible in such a way that the
+words could always be interpreted in accordance with the
+intelligence of each age, and so that the words used are capable of
+several meanings, so that, no matter what may hereafter be
+discovered, the Bible</p>
+<center>443</center>
+<p>will be found to agree with it,&mdash;for the reason that the
+knowledge of Hebrew will grow in the exact proportion that
+discoveries are made in other departments of knowledge. You will
+therefore see, that all efforts of infidelity to destroy the Bible
+will simply result in giving a better translation.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you consider is the strongest argument
+in favor of the inspiration of the Scriptures?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The dying words of Christians.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What do you consider the strongest argument
+against the truth of infidelity?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. The dying words of infidels. You know how
+terrible were the death-bed scenes of Hume, Voltaire, Paine and
+Hobbes, as described by hundreds of persons who were not present;
+while all Christians have died with the utmost serenity, and with
+their last words have testified to the sustaining power of faith in
+the goodness of God.</p>
+<p><i>Question</i>. What were the last words of Jesus Christ?</p>
+<p><i>Answer</i>. "My God, my God, why hast thou for"saken me?"</p>
+<a name="link0010" id="link0010"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>A VINDICATION OF THOMAS PAINE.</h2>
+<p><i>"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority
+of reason, is like administering medicine to the
+dead."&mdash;Thomas Paine.</i></p>
+<p>Peoria, October 8, 1877.</p>
+<p>To the Editor of the N Y. Observer:</p>
+<p>Sir: Last June in San Francisco, I offered a thousand dollars in
+gold&mdash;not as a wager, but as a gift&mdash;to any one who would
+substantiate the absurd story that Thomas Paine died in agony and
+fear, frightened by the clanking chains of devils. I also offered
+the same amount to any minister who would prove that Voltaire did
+not pass away as serenely as the coming of the dawn. Afterward I
+was informed that you had accepted the offer, and had called upon
+me to deposit the money. Acting upon this information, I sent you
+the following letter:</p>
+<p>Peoria, Ill., August 31st, 1877.</p>
+<p>To the Editor of the New York Observer:</p>
+<p>I have been informed that you accepted, in your paper, an offer
+made by me to any clergyman in San Francisco. That offer was, that
+I would pay</p>
+<center>448</center>
+<p>one thousand dollars in gold to any minister in that city who
+would prove that Thomas Paine died in terror because of religious
+opinions he had expressed, or that Voltaire did not pass away
+serenely as the coming of the dawn.</p>
+<p>For many years religious journals and ministers have been
+circulating certain pretended accounts of the frightful agonies
+endured by Paine and Voltaire when dying; that these great men at
+the moment of death were terrified because they had given their
+honest opinions upon the subject of religion to their fellow-men.
+The imagination of the religious world has been taxed to the utmost
+in inventing absurd and infamous accounts of the last moments of
+these intellectual giants. Every Sunday school paper, thousands of
+idiotic tracts, and countless stupidities called sermons, have been
+filled with these calumnies.</p>
+<p>Paine and Voltaire both believed in God&mdash;both hoped for
+immortality&mdash;both believed in special providence. But both
+denied the inspiration of the Scriptures&mdash;both denied the
+divinity of Jesus Christ. While theologians most cheerfully admit
+that most murderers die without fear, they deny the possibility of
+any man who has expressed his disbelief in the inspiration of the
+Bible dying except in an agony of terror. These stories are used in
+revivals and in</p>
+<center>449</center>
+<p>Sunday schools, and have long been considered of great
+value.</p>
+<p>I am anxious that these slanders shall cease. I am desirous of
+seeing justice done, even at this late day, to the dead.</p>
+<p>For the purpose of ascertaining the evidence upon which these
+death-bed accounts really rest, I make to you the following
+proposition:&mdash;</p>
+<p>First.&mdash;As to Thomas Paine: I will deposit with the First
+National Bank of Peoria, Illinois, one thousand dollars in gold,
+upon the following conditions: This money shall be subject to your
+order when you shall, in the manner hereinafter provided,
+substantiate that Thomas Paine admitted the Bible to be an inspired
+book, or that he recanted his Infidel opinions&mdash;or that he
+died regretting that he had disbelieved the Bible&mdash;or that he
+died calling upon Jesus Christ in any religious sense whatever.</p>
+<p>In order that a tribunal may be created to try this question,
+you may select one man, I will select another, and the two thus
+chosen shall select a third, and any two of the three may decide
+the matter.</p>
+<p>As there will be certain costs and expenditures on both sides,
+such costs and expenditures shall be paid by the defeated
+party.</p>
+<p>In addition to the one thousand dollars in gold, I</p>
+<center>450</center>
+<p>will deposit a bond with good and sufficient security in the sum
+of two thousand dollars, conditioned for the payment of all costs
+in case I am defeated. I shall require of you a like bond.</p>
+<p>From the date of accepting this offer you may have ninety days
+to collect and present your testimony, giving me notice of time and
+place of taking depositions. I shall have a like time to take
+evidence upon my side, giving you like notice, and you shall then
+have thirty days to take further testimony in reply to what I may
+offer. The case shall then be argued before the persons chosen; and
+their decisions shall be final as to us.</p>
+<p>If the arbitrator chosen by me shall die, I shall have the right
+to choose another. You shall have the same right. If the third one,
+chosen by our two, shall die, the two shall choose another; and all
+vacancies, from whatever cause, shall be filled upon the same
+principle.</p>
+<p>The arbitrators shall sit when and where a majority shall
+determine, and shall have full power to pass upon all questions
+arising as to competency of evidence, and upon all subjects.</p>
+<p><i>Second</i>.&mdash;As to Voltaire: I make the same
+proposition, if you will substantiate that Voltaire died expressing
+remorse or showing in any way that he</p>
+<center>451</center>
+<p>was in mental agony because he had attacked Catholicism&mdash;or
+because he had denied the inspiration of the Bible&mdash;or because
+he had denied the divinity of Christ.</p>
+<p>I make these propositions because I want you to stop slandering
+the dead.</p>
+<p>If the propositions do not suit you in any particular, please
+state your objections, and I will modify them in any way consistent
+with the object in view.</p>
+<p>If Paine and Voltaire died filled with childish and silly fear,
+I want to know it, and I want the world to know it. On the other
+hand, if the believers in superstition have made and circulated
+these cruel slanders concerning the mighty dead, I want the world
+to know that.</p>
+<p>As soon as you notify me of the acceptance of these propositions
+I will send you the certificate of the bank that the money has been
+deposited upon the foregoing conditions, together with copies of
+bonds for costs. Yours truly,</p>
+<p>R. G. Ingersoll.</p>
+<p>In your paper of September 27, 1877, you acknowledge the receipt
+of the foregoing letter, and after giving an outline of its
+contents, say: "As not one of the affirmations, in the form stated
+in this letter, was contained in the offer we made, we have no
+occasion to substantiate them. But we are prepared</p>
+<center>452</center>
+<p>to produce the evidence of the truth of our own statement, and
+even to go further; to show not only that Tom Paine 'died a
+drunken, cowardly, and beastly death,' but that for many years
+previous, and up to that event he lived a drunken and beastly
+life." In order to refresh your memory as to what you had
+published, I call your attention to the following, which appeared
+in the N. Y. Observer, July 19, 1877: "Put Down the Money.</p>
+<p>"Col. Bob Ingersoll, in a speech full of ribaldry and blasphemy,
+made in San Francisco recently, said: "I will give $1,000 in gold
+coin to any clergyman who can substantiate that the death of
+Voltaire was not as peaceful as the dawn; and of Tom Paine whom
+they assert died in fear and agony, frightened by the clanking
+chains of devils&mdash;in fact frightened to death by God. I will
+give $1,000 likewise to any one who can substantiate this 'absurd
+story'&mdash;a story without a word of truth in it."</p>
+<p>"We have published the testimony, and the witnesses are on hand
+to prove that Tom Paine died a drunken, cowardly and beastly death.
+Let the Colonel deposit the money with any honest man, and the
+absurd story, as he terms it, shall be shown to be an ower true
+tale. But he wont do it. His talk is Infidel 'buncombe' and nothing
+more."</p>
+<center>453</center>
+<p>On the 31st of August I sent you my letter, and on the 27th of
+September you say in your paper: "As not one of the affirmations in
+the form stated in this letter was contained in the offer we made,
+we have no occasion to substantiate them."</p>
+<p>What were the affirmations contained in the offer you made? I
+had offered a thousand dollars in gold to any one who would
+substantiate "the absurd story" that Thomas Paine died in fear and
+agony,frightened by the clanking chains of devils&mdash;in fact,
+frightened to death by God.</p>
+<p>In response to this offer you said: "Let the Colonel deposit the
+money with an honest man and the 'absurd story' as he terms it,
+shall be shown to be an 'ower true tale.' But he won't do it. His
+talk is infidel 'buncombe' and nothing more."</p>
+<p>Did you not offer to prove that Paine died in fear and agony,
+frightened by the clanking chains of devils? Did you not ask me to
+deposit the money that you might prove the "absurd story" to be an
+"ower true tale" and obtain the money? Did you not in your paper of
+the twenty-seventh of September in effect deny that you had offered
+to prove this "absurd story"? As soon as I offered to deposit the
+gold and give bonds besides to cover costs, did you not publish a
+falsehood?</p>
+<center>454</center>
+<p>You have eaten your own words, and, for my part, I would rather
+have dined with Ezekiel than with you.</p>
+<p>You have not met the issue. You have knowingly avoided it. The
+question was not as to the personal habits of Paine. The real
+question was and is, whether Paine was filled with fear and horror
+at the time of his death on account of his religious opinions. That
+is the question. You avoid this. In effect, you abandon that charge
+and make others.</p>
+<p>To you belongs the honor of having made the most cruel and
+infamous charges against Thomas Paine that have ever been made. Of
+what you have said you cannot prove the truth of one word.</p>
+<p>You say that Thomas Paine died a drunken, cowardly and beastly
+death.</p>
+<p>I pronounce this charge to be a cowardly and beastly
+falsehood.</p>
+<p>Have you any evidence that he was in a drunken condition when he
+died?</p>
+<p>What did he say or do of a cowardly character just before, or at
+about the time of his death?</p>
+<p>In what way was his death cowardly? You must answer these
+questions, and give your proof, or all honest men will hold you in
+abhorrence. You have made these charges. The man against whom
+you</p>
+<p>Vindication of thomas paine.</p>
+<center>455</center>
+<p>make them is dead. He cannot answer you. I can. He cannot compel
+you to produce your testimony, or admit by your silence that you
+have cruelly slandered the defenceless dead. I can and I will. You
+say that his death was cowardly. In what respect? Was it cowardly
+in him to hold the Thirty-Nine Articles in contempt? Was it
+cowardly not to call on your Lord? Was it cowardly not to be
+afraid? You say that his death was beastly. Again I ask, in what
+respect? Was it beastly to submit to the inevitable with
+tranquillity? Was it beastly to look with composure upon the
+approach of death? Was it beastly to die without a complaint,
+without a murmur&mdash;to pass from life without a fear?</p>
+<p>Did Thomas Paine Recant?</p>
+<p>Mr. Paine had prophesied that fanatics would crawl and cringe
+around him during his last moments. He believed that they would put
+a lie in the mouth of Death.</p>
+<p>When the shadow of the coming dissolution was upon him, two
+clergymen, Messrs. Milledollar and Cunningham, called to annoy the
+dying man. Mr. Cunningham had the politeness to say, "You have now
+a full view of death you cannot live long, and whosoever does not
+believe in the Lord Jesus Christ</p>
+<center>456</center>
+<p>will asuredly be damned." Mr. Paine replied, "Let me have none
+of your popish stuff. Get away with you. Good morning."</p>
+<p>On another occasion a Methodist minister obtruded himself when
+Willet Hicks was present. This minister declared to Mr. Paine "that
+unless he repented of his unbelief he would be damned." Paine,
+although at the door of death, rose in his bed and indignantly
+requested the clergyman to leave his room. On another occasion, two
+brothers by the name of Pigott, sought to convert him. He was
+displeased and requested their departure. Afterward Thomas Nixon
+and Captain Daniel Pelton visited him for the express purpose of
+ascertaining whether he had, in any manner, changed his religious
+opinions. They were assured by the dying man that he still held the
+principles he had expressed in his writings.</p>
+<p>Afterward, these gentlemen hearing that William Cobbett was
+about to write a life of Paine, sent him the following note:</p>
+<p>New York, April 24, 1818.</p>
+<p>"Sir: We have been informed that you have a design to write a
+history of the life and writings of Thomas Paine. If you have been
+furnished with materials in respect to his religious opinions,
+or</p>
+<center>457</center>
+<p>rather of his recantation of his former opinions before his
+death, all you have heard of his recanting is false. Being aware
+that such reports would be raised after his death by fanatics who
+infested his house at the time it was expected he would die, we,
+the subscribers, intimate acquaintances of Thomas Paine since the
+year 1776, went to his house. He was sitting up in a chair, and
+apparently in full vigor and use of all his mental faculties. We
+interrogated him upon his religious opinions, and if he had changed
+his mind, or repented of anything he had said or wrote on that
+subject. He answered, "Not at all," and appeared rather offended at
+our supposition that any change should take place in his mind. We
+took down in writing the questions put to him and his answers
+thereto before a number of persons then in his room, among whom
+were his doctor, Mrs. Bonneville, &amp;c. This paper is mislaid and
+cannot be found at present, but the above is the substance which
+can be attested by many living witnesses."</p>
+<p>Thomas Nixon.</p>
+<p>Daniel Pelton.</p>
+<p>Mr. Jarvis, the artist, saw Mr. Paine one or two days before his
+death. To Mr. Jarvis he expressed his belief in his written
+opinions upon the subject of religion. B. F. Haskin, an attorney of
+the city of</p>
+<center>458</center>
+<p>New York, also visited him and inquired as to his religious
+opinions. Paine was then upon the threshold of death, but he did
+not tremble. He was not a coward. He expressed his firm and
+unshaken belief in the religious ideas he had given to the
+world.</p>
+<p>Dr. Manley was with him when he spoke his last words. Dr. Manley
+asked the dying man if he did not wish to believe that Jesus was
+the Son of God, and the dying philosopher answered: "I have no wish
+to believe on that subject." Amasa Woodsworth</p>
+<p>sat up with Thomas Paine the night before his death. In 1839
+Gilbert Vale hearing that Mr. Woodsworth was living in or near
+Boston, visited him for the purpose of getting his statement. The
+statement was published in the Beacon of June 5, 1839, while
+thousands who had been acquainted with Mr. Paine were living.</p>
+<p>The following is the article referred to.</p>
+<p>"We have just returned from Boston. One object of our visit to
+that city, was to see a Mr. Amasa Woodsworth, an engineer, now
+retired in a handsome cottage and garden at East Cambridge, Boston.
+This gentleman owned the house occupied by Paine at his
+death&mdash;while he lived next door. As an act of kindness Mr.
+Woodsworth visited Mr. Paine every day for six weeks before his
+death. He frequently</p>
+<center>459</center>
+<p>sat up with him, and did so on the last two nights of his life.
+He was always there with Dr. Manley, the physician, and assisted in
+removing Mr. Paine while his bed was prepared. He was present when
+Dr. Manley asked Mr. Paine "if he wished to believe that Jesus
+Christ was the Son of God," and he describes Mr. Paine's answer as
+animated. He says that lying on his back he used some action and
+with much emphasis, replied, "I have no wish to believe on that
+subject." He lived some time after this, but was not known to
+speak, for he died tranquilly. He accounts for the insinuating
+style of Dr. Manley's letter, by stating that that gentleman just
+after its publication joined a church. He informs us that he has
+openly reproved the doctor for the falsity contained in the spirit
+of that letter, boldly declaring before Dr. Manley, who is yet
+living, that nothing which he saw justified the insinuations. Mr.
+Woodsworth assures us that he neither heard nor saw anything to
+justify the belief of any mental change in the opinions of Mr.
+Paine previous to his death; but that being very ill and in pain
+chiefly arising from the skin being removed in some parts by long
+lying, he was generally too uneasy to enjoy conversation on
+abstract subjects. This, then, is the best evidence that can be
+procured on this subject, and we publish</p>
+<center>460</center>
+<p>it while the contravening parties are yet alive, and with the
+authority of Mr. Woodsworth.</p>
+<p>Gilbert Vale.</p>
+<p>A few weeks ago I received the following letter which confirms
+the statement of Mr. Vale:</p>
+<p>Near Stockton, Cal., Greenwood Cottage, July 9, 1877.</p>
+<p>Col. Ingersoll: In 1842 I talked with a gentleman in Boston. I
+have forgotten his name; but he was then an engineer of the
+Charleston navy yard. I am thus particular so that you can find his
+name on the books. He told me that he nursed Thomas Paine in his
+last illness, and closed his eyes when dead. I asked him if he
+recanted and called upon God to save him. He replied, "No. He died
+as he had taught. He had a sore upon his side and when we turned
+him it was very painful and he would cry out 'O God!' or something
+like that." "But," said the narrator, "that was nothing, for he
+believed in a God." I told him that I had often heard it asserted
+from the pulpit that Mr. Paine had recanted in his last moments.
+The gentleman said that it was not true, and he appeared to be an
+intelligent, truthful man. With respect, I remain, &amp;c.,</p>
+<p>Philip Graves, M. D.</p>
+<center>461</center>
+<p>The next witness is Willet Hicks, a Quaker preacher. He says
+that during the last illness of Mr. Paine he visited him almost
+daily, and that Paine died firmly convinced of the truth of the
+religious opinions he had given to his fellow-men. It was to this
+same Willet Hicks that Paine applied for permission to be buried in
+the cemetery of the Quakers. Permission was refused. This refusal
+settles the question of recantation. If he had recanted, of course
+there could have been no objection to his body being buried by the
+side of the best hypocrites on the earth.</p>
+<p>If Paine recanted why should he be denied "a little earth for
+charity"? Had he recanted, it would have been regarded as a vast
+and splendid triumph for the gospel. It would with much noise and
+pomp and ostentation have been heralded about the world.</p>
+<p>I received the following letter to-day. The writer is well know
+in this city, and is a man of high character:</p>
+<p>Peoria, Oct. 8th, 1877.</p>
+<p>Robert G. Ingersoll, Esteemed Friend: My parents were Friends
+(Quakers). My father died when I was very young. The elderly and
+middleaged Friends visited at my mother's house. We</p>
+<center>462</center>
+<p>lived in the city of New York. Among the number I distinctly
+remember Elias Hicks, Willet Hicks,</p>
+<p>and a Mr.-Day, who was a bookseller in Pearl</p>
+<p>street. There were many others, whose names I do not now
+remember. The subject of the recantation by Thomas Paine of his
+views about the Bible in his last illness, or at any other time,
+was discussed by them in my presence at different times. I learned
+from them that some of them had attended upon Thomas Paine in his
+last sickness and ministered to his wants up to the time of his
+death. And upon the question of whether he did recant there was but
+one expression. They all said that he did not recant in any manner.
+I often heard them say they wished he had recanted. In fact,
+according to them, the nearer he approached death the more positive
+he appeared to be in his convictions.</p>
+<p>These conversations were from 1820 to 1822. I was at that time
+from ten to twelve years old, but these conversations impressed
+themselves upon me because many thoughtless people then blamed the
+Society of Friends for their kindness to that "arch Infidel,"
+Thomas Paine..</p>
+<p>Truly yours,</p>
+<p>A. C. Hankinson.</p>
+<center>463</center>
+<p>A few days ago I received the following letter: Albany, New
+York, Sept. 27, 1877.</p>
+<p>Dear Sir: It is over twenty years ago that professionally I made
+the acquaintance of John Hogeboom,</p>
+<p>a Justice of the Peace of the county of Rensselaer, New York. He
+was then over seventy years of age and had the reputation of being
+a man of candor and integrity. He was a great admirer of Paine. He
+told me that he was personally acquainted with him, and used to see
+him frequently during the last years of his life in the city of New
+York, where Hogeboom then resided. I asked him if there was any
+truth in the charge that Paine was in the habit of getting drunk.
+He said that it was utterly false; that he never heard of such a
+thing during the life-time of Mr. Paine, and did not believe any
+one else did. I asked him about the recantation of his religious
+opinions on his death-bed, and the revolting death-bed scenes that
+the world had heard so much about. He said there was no truth in
+them, that he had received his information from persons who
+attended Paine in his last illness, "and that he passed peacefully
+away, as we may say, in the sunshine of a great soul."...</p>
+<p>Yours truly,</p>
+<p>W. J. Hilton,</p>
+<center>464</center>
+<p>The witnesses by whom I substantiate the fact that Thomas Paine
+did not recant, and that he died holding the religious opinions he
+had published, are: First&mdash;Thomas Nixon, Captain Daniel
+Pelton, B. F. Haskin. These gentlemen visited him during his last
+illness for the purpose of ascertaining whether he had in any
+respect changed his views upon religion. He told them that he had
+not.</p>
+<p>Second&mdash;James Cheetham. This man was the most malicious
+enemy Mr. Paine had, and yet he admits that "Thomas Paine died
+placidly, and almost without a struggle." (See Life of Thomas
+Paine, by James Cheetham).</p>
+<p>Third&mdash;The ministers, Milledollar and Cunningham. These
+gentlemen told Mr. Paine that if he died without believing in the
+Lord Jesus Christ he would be damned, and Paine replied, "Let me
+have none of your popish stuff. Good morning." (See Sherwin's Life
+of Paine, p. 220).</p>
+<p>Fourth&mdash;Mrs. Hedden. She told these same preachers when
+they attempted to obtrude themselves upon Mr. Paine again, that the
+attempt to convert Mr. Paine was useless&mdash;"that if God did not
+change his mind no human power could."</p>
+<p>Fifth&mdash;Andrew A. Dean. This man lived upon Paine's farm at
+New Rochelle, and corresponded</p>
+<center>465</center>
+<p>with him upon religious subjects. (See Paine's Theological
+Works, p. 308.)</p>
+<p>Sixth&mdash;Mr. Jarvis, the artist with whom Paine lived. He
+gives an account of an old lady coming to Paine and telling him
+that God Almighty had sent her to tell him that unless he repented
+and believed in the blessed Savior, he would be damned. Paine
+replied that God would not send such a foolish old woman with such
+an impertinent message. (See Clio Rickman's Life of Paine.)</p>
+<p>Seventh&mdash;Wm. Carver, with whom Paine boarded. Mr. Carver
+said again and again that Paine did not recant. He knew him well,
+and had every opportunity of knowing. (See Life of Paine by Gilbert
+Vale.)</p>
+<p>Eighth&mdash;Dr. Manley, who attended him in his last sickness,
+and to whom Paine spoke his last words. Dr. Manley asked him if he
+did not wish to believe in Jesus Christ, and he replied, "I have no
+wish to believe on that subject."</p>
+<p>Ninth&mdash;Willet Hicks and Elias Hicks, who were with him
+frequently during his last sickness, and both of whom tried to
+persuade him to recant. According to their testimony, Mr. Paine
+died as he had lived&mdash;a believer in God, and a friend of man.
+Willet Hicks was offered money to say something false against
+Thomas Paine. He was even offered</p>
+<center>466</center>
+<p>money to remain silent and allow others to slander the dead. Mr.
+Hicks, speaking of Thomas Paine, said: "He was a good man&mdash;an
+honest man." (Vale's Life of Paine.)</p>
+<p>Tenth&mdash;Amasa Woodsworth, who was with him every day for
+some six weeks immediately preceding his death, and sat up with him
+the last two nights of his life. This man declares that Paine did
+not recant and that he died tranquilly. The evidence of Mr.
+Woodsworth is conclusive.</p>
+<p>Eleventh&mdash;Thomas Paine himself. The will of Thomas Paine,
+written by himself, commences as follows:</p>
+<p>"The last will and testament of me, the subscriber, Thomas
+Paine, reposing confidence in my creator God, and in no other
+being, for I know of no other, nor believe in any other;" and
+closes in these words; "I have lived an honest and useful life to
+mankind; my time has been spent in doing good, and I die in perfect
+composure and resignation to the will of my creator God."</p>
+<p>Twelfth&mdash;If Thomas Paine recanted, why do you pursue him?
+If he recanted, he died substantially in your belief, for what
+reason then do you denounce his death as cowardly? If upon his
+death-bed he renounced the opinions he had published, the busi</p>
+<center>467</center>
+<p>ness of defaming him should be done by Infidels, not by
+Christians.</p>
+<p>I ask you if it is honest to throw away the testimony of his
+friends&mdash;the evidence of fair and honorable men&mdash;and take
+the putrid words of avowed and malignant enemies?</p>
+<p>When Thomas Paine was dying, he was infested by
+fanatics&mdash;by the snaky spies of bigotry. In the shadows of
+death were the unclean birds of prey waiting to tear with beak and
+claw the corpse of him who wrote the "Rights of Man." And there
+lurking and crouching in the darkness were the jackals and hyenas
+of superstition ready to violate his grave.</p>
+<p>These birds of prey&mdash;these unclean beasts are the witnesses
+produced and relied upon by you.</p>
+<p>One by one the instruments of torture have been wrenched from
+the cruel clutch of the church, until within the armory of
+orthodoxy there remains but one weapon&mdash;Slander.</p>
+<p>Against the witnesses that I have produced you can bring just
+two&mdash;Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale. The first is referred to
+in the memoir of Stephen Grellet. She had once been a servant in
+his house. Grellet tells what happened between this girl and Paine.
+According to this account Paine asked her if she had ever read any
+of his writings,</p>
+<center>468</center>
+<p>and on being told that she had read very little of them, he
+inquired what she thought of them, adding that from such an one as
+she he expected a correct answer.</p>
+<p>Let us examine this falsehood. Why would Paine expect a correct
+answer about his writings from one who had read very little of
+them? Does not such a statement devour itself? This young lady
+further said that the "Age of Reason" was put in her hands and that
+the more she read in it the more dark and distressed she felt, and
+that she threw the book into the fire. Whereupon Mr. Paine
+remarked, "I wish all had done as you did, for if the devil ever
+had any agency in any work, he had it in my writing that book."</p>
+<p>The next is Mary Hinsdale. She was a servant in the family of
+Willet Hicks. She, like Mary Roscoe, was sent to carry some
+delicacy to Mr. Paine. To this young lady Paine, according to her
+account, said precisely the same that he did to Mary Roscoe, and
+she said the same thing to Mr. Paine.</p>
+<p>My own opinion is that Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale are one and
+the same person, or the same story has been by mistake put in the
+mouth of both.</p>
+<p>It is not possible that the same conversation should have taken
+place between Paine and Mary Roscoe, and between him and Mary
+Hinsdale.</p>
+<center>469</center>
+<p>Mary Hinsdale lived with Willet Hicks and he pronounced her
+story a pious fraud and fabrication. He said that Thomas Paine
+never said any such thing to Mary Hinsdale. (See Vale's Life of
+Paine.)</p>
+<p>Another thing about this witness. A woman by the name of Mary
+Lockwood, a Hicksite Quaker, died. Mary Hinsdale met her brother
+about that time and told him that his sister had recanted, and
+wanted her to say so at her funeral. This turned out to be
+false.</p>
+<p>It has been claimed that Mary Hinsdale made her statement to
+Charles Collins. Long after the alleged occurrence Gilbert Vale,
+one of the biographers of Paine, had a conversation with Collins
+concerning Mary Hinsdale. Vale asked him what he thought of her. He
+replied that some of the Friends believed that she used opiates,
+and that they did not give credit to her statements. He also said
+that he believed what the Friends said, but thought that when a
+young woman, she might have told the truth.</p>
+<p>In 1818 William Cobbett came to New York. He began collecting
+materials for a life of Thomas Paine. In this he became acquainted
+with Mary Hinsdale and Charles Collins. Mr. Cobbett gave a</p>
+<center>470</center>
+<p>full account of what happened in a letter addressed to the
+Norwich Mercury in 1819. From this account it seems that Charles
+Collins told Cobbett that Paine had recanted. Cobbett called for
+the testimony, and told Mr. Collins that he must give time, place,
+and the circumstances. He finally brought a statement that he
+stated had been made by Mary Hinsdale. Armed with this document
+Cobbett, in October of that year, called upon the said Mary
+Hinsdale, at No. 10 Anthony street, New York, and showed her the
+statement. Upon being questioned by Mr. Cobbett she said, "That it
+was so long ago that she could not speak positively to any part of
+the matter&mdash;that she would not say that any part of the paper
+was true&mdash;that she had never seen the paper &mdash;and that
+she had never given Charles Collins authority to say anything about
+the matter in her name." And so in the month of October, in the
+year of grace 1818, in the mist and fog of forgetfulness
+disappeared forever one Mary Hinsdale&mdash;the last and only
+witness against the intellectual honesty of Thomas Paine.</p>
+<p><i>Did Thomas Paine live the life of a drunken beast, and did he
+die a drunken, cowardly and beastly death?</i></p>
+<p>Upon you rests the burden of substantiating these infamous
+charges.</p>
+<center>471</center>
+<p>You have, I suppose, produced the best evidence in your
+possession, and that evidence I will now proceed to examine. Your
+first witness is Grant Thorburn. He makes three charges against
+Thomas Paine, 1st. That his wife obtained a divorce from him in
+England for cruelty and neglect. 2d. That he was a defaulter and
+fled from England to America. 3d. That he was a drunkard.</p>
+<p>These three charges stand upon the same evidence &mdash;the word
+of Grant Thorburn. If they are not all true Mr. Thorburn stands
+impeached.</p>
+<p>The charge that Mrs. Paine obtained a divorce on account of the
+cruelty and neglect of her husband is utterly false. There is no
+such record in the world, and never was. Paine and his wife
+separated by mutual consent. Each respected the other. They
+remained friends. This charge is without any foundation in fact. I
+challenge the Christian world to produce the record of this decree
+of divorce. According to Mr. Thorburn it was granted in England. In
+that country public records are kept of all such decrees. Have the
+kindness to produce this decree showing that it was given on
+account of cruelty or admit that Mr. Thorburn was mistaken.</p>
+<p>Thomas Paine was a just man. Although separated from his wife,
+he always spoke of her with</p>
+<center>472</center>
+<p>tenderness and respect, and frequently sent her money without
+letting her know the source from whence it came. Was this the
+conduct of a drunken beast?</p>
+<p>The second charge, that Paine was a defaulter in England and
+fled to America, is equally false. He did not flee from England. He
+came to America, not as a fugitive, but as a free man. He came with
+a letter of introduction signed by another Infidel, Benjamin
+Franklin. He came as a soldier of Freedom&mdash;an apostle of
+Liberty.</p>
+<p>In this second charge there is not one word of truth.</p>
+<p>He held a small office in England. If he was a defaulter the
+records of that country will show that fact.</p>
+<p>Mr. Thorburn, unless the record can be produced to substantiate
+him, stands convicted of at least two mistakes.</p>
+<p>Now, as to the third: He says that in 1802 Paine was an "old
+remnant of mortality, drunk, bloated and half asleep."</p>
+<p>Can any one believe this to be a true account of the personal
+appearance of Mr. Paine in 1802? He had just returned from France.
+He had been welcomed home by Thomas Jefferson, who had said that he
+was entitled to the hospitality of every American.</p>
+<center>473</center>
+<p>In 1802 Mr. Paine was honored with a public dinner in the city
+of New York. He was called upon and treated with kindness and
+respect by such men as DeWitt Clinton.</p>
+<p>In 1806 Mr. Paine wrote a letter to Andrew A. Dean upon the
+subject of religion. Read that letter and then say that the writer
+of it was an "old remnant of mortality, drunk, bloated and half
+asleep." Search the files of the New York Observer from the first
+issue to the last, and you will find nothing superior to this
+letter.</p>
+<p>In 1803 Mr. Paine wrote a letter of considerable length, and of
+great force, to his friend Samuel Adams. Such letters are not
+written by drunken beasts, nor by remnants of old mortality, nor by
+drunkards. It was about the same time that he wrote his "Remarks on
+Robert Hall's Sermons."</p>
+<p>These "Remarks" were not written by a drunken beast, but by a
+clear-headed and thoughtful man.</p>
+<p>In 1804 he published an essay on the invasion of England, and a
+treatise on gunboats, full of valuable maritime
+information:&mdash;in 1805, a treatise on yellow fever, suggesting
+modes of prevention. In short, he was an industrious and thoughtful
+man. He sympathized with the poor and oppressed of all lands. He
+looked upon monarchy as a species of physical</p>
+<center>474</center>
+<p>slavery. He had the goodness to attack that form of government.
+He regarded the religion of his day as a kind of mental slavery. He
+had the courage to give his reasons for his opinion. His reasons
+filled the churches with hatred. Instead of answering his arguments
+they attacked him. Men who were not fit to blacken his shoes,
+blackened his character.</p>
+<p>There is too much religious cant in the statement of Mr.
+Thorburn. He exhibited too much anxiety to tell what Grant Thorburn
+said to Thomas Paine. He names Thomas Jefferson as one of the
+disreputable men who welcomed Paine with open arms. The testimony
+of a man who regarded Thomas Jefferson as a disreputable person, as
+to the character of anybody, is utterly without value. In my
+judgment, the testimony of Mr. Thorburn should be thrown aside as
+wholly unworthy of belief.</p>
+<p>Your next witness is the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D. D., who tells
+what an elder in his church said. This elder said that Paine passed
+his last days on his farm at New Rochelle with a solitary female
+attendant. This is not true. He did not pass his last days at New
+Rochelle. Consequently this pious elder did not see him during his
+last days at that place. Upon this elder we prove an alibi. Mr.
+Paine passed his last days in the city of New York, in a house
+upon</p>
+<center>475</center>
+<p>Columbia street. The story of the Rev. J. D. Wickham, D.D., is
+simply false.</p>
+<p>The next competent false witness is the Rev. Charles Hawley,
+D.D., who proceeds to state that the story of the Rev. J. D.
+Wickham, D.D., is corroborated by older citizens of New Rochelle.
+The names of these ancient residents are withheld. According to
+these unknown witnesses, the account given by the deceased elder
+was entirely correct. But as the particulars of Mr. Paine's conduct
+"were too loathsome to be described in print," we are left entirely
+in the dark as to what he really did.</p>
+<p>While at New Rochelle Mr. Paine lived with Mr. Purdy&mdash;with
+Mr. Dean&mdash;with Captain Pelton, and with Mr. Staple. It is
+worthy of note that all of these gentlemen give the lie direct to
+the statements of "older residents" and ancient citizens spoken of
+by the Rev. Charles Hawley, D.D., and leave him with his "loathsome
+particulars" existing only in his own mind.</p>
+<p>The next gentleman you bring upon the stand is W. H. Ladd, who
+quotes from the memoirs of Stephen Grellet. This gentleman also has
+the misfortune to be dead. According to his account, Mr. Paine made
+his recantation to a servant girl of his by the name of Mary
+Roscoe. To this girl, accord</p>
+<center>476</center>
+<p>ing to the account, Mr. Paine uttered the wish that all who read
+his book had burned it. I believe there is a mistake in the name of
+this girl. Her name was probably Mary Hinsdale, as it was once
+claimed that Paine made the same remark to her, but this point I
+shall notice hereafter. These are your witnesses, and the only ones
+you bring forward, to support your charge that Thomas Paine lived a
+drunken and beastly life and died a drunken, cowardly and beastly
+death. All these calumnies are found in a life of Paine by a Mr.
+Cheetham, the convicted libeler already referred to. Mr. Cheetham
+was an enemy of the man whose life he pretended to write.</p>
+<p>In order to show you the estimation in which Mr. Cheetham was
+held by Mr. Paine, I will give you a copy of a letter that throws
+light upon this point:</p>
+<p>October 28, 1807.</p>
+<p>"Mr. Cheetham: Unless you make a public apology for the abuse
+and falsehood in your paper of Tuesday, October 27th, respecting
+me, I will prosecute you for lying."</p>
+<p>Thomas Paine.</p>
+<p>In another letter, speaking of this same man, Mr. Paine says:
+"If an unprincipled bully cannot be reformed, he can be punished."
+"Cheetham has been so long in the habit of giving false
+information, that truth is to him like a foreign language."</p>
+<center>477</center>
+<p>Mr. Cheetham wrote the life of Paine to gratify his malice and
+to support religion. He was prosecuted for libel&mdash;was
+convicted and fined.</p>
+<p>Yet the life of Paine written by this man is referred to by the
+Christian world as the highest authority.</p>
+<p>As to the personal habits of Mr. Paine, we have the testimony of
+William Carver, with whom he lived; of Mr. Jarvis, the artist, with
+whom he lived; of Mr. Staple, with whom he lived; of Mr. Purdy, who
+was a tenant of Paine's; of Mr. Burger, with whom he was intimate;
+of Thomas Nixon and Captain Daniel Pelton, both of whom knew him
+well; of Amasa Woodsworth, who was with him when he died; of John
+Fellows, who boarded at the same house; of James Wilburn, with whom
+he boarded; of B. F. Haskin, a lawyer, who was well acquainted with
+him and called upon him during his last illness; of Walter Morton,
+a friend; of Clio Rickman, who had known him for many years; of
+Willet and Elias Hicks, Quakers, who knew him intimately and well;
+of Judge Herttell, H. Margary, Elihu Palmer, and many others. All
+these testified to the fact that Mr. Paine was a temperate man. In
+those days nearly everybody used spirituous liquors. Paine was not
+an exception; but he did not drink to excess. Mr. Lovett, who kept
+the City Hotel where</p>
+<center>478</center>
+<p>Paine stopped, in a note to Caleb Bingham, declared that Paine
+drank less than any boarder he had.</p>
+<p>Against all this evidence you produce the story of Grant
+Thorburn&mdash;the story of the Rev. J. D. Wickham that an elder in
+his church told him that Paine was a drunkard, corroborated by the
+Rev. Charles Hawley, and an extract from Lossing's history to the
+same effect. The evidence is overwhelmingly against you. Will you
+have the fairness to admit it? Your witnesses are merely the
+repeaters of the falsehoods of James Cheetham, the convicted
+libeler.</p>
+<p>After all, drinking is not as bad as lying. An honest drunkard
+is better than a calumniator of the dead. "A remnant of old
+mortality, drunk, bloated and half asleep" is better than a
+perfectly sober defender of human slavery.</p>
+<p>To become drunk is a virtue compared with stealing a babe from
+the breast of its mother.</p>
+<p>Drunkenness is one of the beatitudes, compared with editing a
+religious paper devoted to the defence of slavery upon the ground
+that it is a divine institution.</p>
+<p>Do you really think that Paine was a drunken beast when he wrote
+"Common Sense"&mdash;a pamphlet that aroused three millions of
+people, as people were never aroused by a pamphlet before? Was he
+a</p>
+<center>479</center>
+<p>drunken beast when he wrote the "Crisis"? Was it to a drunken
+beast that the following letter was addressed:</p>
+<p>Rocky Hill, September 10, 1783.</p>
+<p>"I have learned since I have been at this place, that you are at
+Bordentown.&mdash;Whether for the sake of retirement or economy I
+know not. Be it for either or both, or whatever it may, if you will
+come to this place and partake with me I shall be exceedingly happy
+to see you at it. Your presence may remind Congress of your past
+services to this country; and if it is in my power to impress them,
+command my best exertions with freedom, as they will be rendered
+cheerfully by one who entertains a lively sense of the importance
+of your works, and who with much pleasure subscribes himself,</p>
+<p>"Your Sincere Friend,</p>
+<p>"George Washington."</p>
+<p>Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter like that?</p>
+<p>Do you think that Paine was a drunken beast when the following
+letter was received by him?</p>
+<p>"You express a wish in your letter to return to America in a
+national ship; Mr. Dawson, who brings over the treaty, and who will
+present you with this letter, is charged with orders to the captain
+of the</p>
+<center>480</center>
+<p>Maryland to receive and accommodate you back, if you can be
+ready to depart at such a short warning. You will in general find
+us returned to sentiments worthy of former times; <i>in these it
+will be your glory to have steadily labored and with as much effect
+as any man living.</i> That you may live long to continue your
+useful labors, and reap the reward in the <i>thankfulness of
+nations</i>, is my sincere prayer. Accept the assurances of my high
+esteem and affectionate attachment."</p>
+<p>Thomas Jefferson.</p>
+<p>Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter like that?</p>
+<p>"It has been very generally propagated through the continent
+that I wrote the pamphlet 'Common Sense.' I could not have written
+anything in so manly and striking a style."&mdash;John Adams.</p>
+<p>"A few more such flaming arguments as were exhibited at Falmouth
+and Norfolk, added to the sound doctrine and unanswerable reasoning
+contained in the pamphlet 'Common Sense,' will not leave numbers at
+a loss to decide on the propriety of a separation."&mdash;George
+Washington.</p>
+<p>"It is not necessary for me to tell you how much all your
+countrymen&mdash;I speak of the great mass of the people&mdash;are
+interested in your welfare.</p>
+<center>481</center>
+<p>They have not forgotten the history of their own Revolution and
+the difficult scenes through which they passed; nor do they review
+its several stages without reviving in their bosoms a due
+sensibility of the merits of those who served them in that great
+and arduous conflict. The crime of ingratitude has not yet stained,
+and I trust never will stain, our national character. You are
+considered by them as not only having rendered important services
+in our own Revolution, but as being on a more extensive scale the
+friend of human rights, and a distinguished and able defender of
+public liberty. To the welfare of Thomas Paine the Americans are
+not, nor can they be indifferent.".. James Monroe.</p>
+<p>Did any of your ancestors ever receive a letter like that?</p>
+<p>"No writer has exceeded Paine in ease and familiarity of style,
+in perspicuity of expression, happiness of elucidation, and in
+simple and unassuming language."'&mdash;Thomas Jefferson.</p>
+<p>Was ever a letter like that written about an editor of the
+<i>New York Observer?</i></p>
+<p>Was it in consideration of the services of a drunken beast that
+the Legislature of Pennsylvania presented Thomas Paine with five
+hundred pounds sterling?</p>
+<center>482</center>
+<p>Did the State of New York feel indebted to a drunken beast, and
+confer upon Thomas Paine an estate of several hundred acres?</p>
+<p>"I believe in the equality of man, and I believe that religious
+duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavoring to
+make our fellow-creatures happy."</p>
+<p>"My own mind is my own church."</p>
+<p>"It is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally
+faithful to himself."</p>
+<p>"Any system of religion that shocks the mind of a child cannot
+be a true system."</p>
+<p>"The Word of God is the creation which we behold."</p>
+<p>"The age of ignorance commenced with the Christian system."</p>
+<p>"It is with a pious fraud as with a bad action&mdash;it begets a
+calamitous necessity of going on."</p>
+<p>"To read the Bible without horror, we must undo everything that
+is tender, sympathizing and benevolent in the heart of man."</p>
+<p>"The man does not exist who can say I have persecuted him, or
+that I have in any case returned evil for evil."</p>
+<p>"Of all tyrannies that afflict mankind, tyranny in religion is
+the worst."</p>
+<center>483</center>
+<p>"My own opinion is, that those whose lives have been spent in
+doing good and endeavoring to make their fellow-mortals happy, will
+be happy hereafter." "The belief in a cruel god makes a cruel man."
+"The intellectual part of religion is a private affair between
+every man and his Maker, and in which no third party has any right
+to interfere. The practical part consists in our doing good to each
+other."</p>
+<p>"No man ought to make a living by religion. One person cannot
+act religion for another&mdash;every person must perform it for
+himself."</p>
+<p>"One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred
+priests."</p>
+<p>"Let us propagate morality unfettered by superstition."</p>
+<p>"God is the power, or first cause, Nature is the law, and matter
+is the subject acted upon."</p>
+<p>"I believe in one God and no more, and I hope for happiness
+beyond this life."</p>
+<p>"The key of heaven is not in the keeping of any sect nor ought
+the road to it to be obstructed by any."</p>
+<p>"My religion, and the whole of it, is the fear and love of the
+Deity and universal philanthropy."</p>
+<p>"I have yet, I believe, some years in store, for I have a good
+state of health and a happy mind. I</p>
+<center>484</center>
+<p>take care of both, by nourishing the first with temperance and
+the latter with abundance."</p>
+<p>"He lives immured within the Bastile of a word."</p>
+<p>How perfectly that sentence describes you! The Bastile in which
+you are immured is the word "Calvinism."</p>
+<p>"Man has no property in man."</p>
+<p>What a splendid motto that would have made for the <i>New York
+Observer</i> in the olden time!</p>
+<p>"The world is my country; to do good, my religion."</p>
+<p>I ask you again whether these splendid utterances came from the
+lips of a drunken beast?</p>
+<p><i>Did Thomas Paine die in destitution and want?</i></p>
+<p>The charge has been made, over and over again, that Thomas Paine
+died in want and destitution&mdash; that he was an abandoned
+pauper&mdash;an outcast without friends and without money. This
+charge is just as false as the rest.</p>
+<p>Upon his return to this country in 1802, he was worth $30,000,
+according to his own statement made at that time in the following
+letter addressed to Clio Rickman:</p>
+<p>"My Dear Friend: Mr. Monroe, who is appointed minister
+extraordinary to France, takes charge of</p>
+<center>485</center>
+<p>this, to be delivered to Mr. Este, banker in Paris, to be
+forwarded to you.</p>
+<p>"I arrived at Baltimore the 30th of October, and you can have no
+idea of the agitation which my arrival occasioned. From New
+Hampshire to Georgia (an extent of 1,500 miles) every newspaper was
+filled with applause or abuse.</p>
+<p>"My property in this country has been taken care of by my
+friends, and is now worth six thousand pounds sterling; which put
+in the funds will bring me &pound;400 sterling a year.</p>
+<p>"Remember me in affection and friendship to your wife and
+family, and in the circle of your friends."</p>
+<p>Thomas Paine.</p>
+<p>A man in those days worth thirty thousand dollars was not a
+pauper. That amount would bring an income of at least two thousand
+dollars per annum. Two thousand dollars then would be fully equal
+to five thousand dollars now.</p>
+<p>On the 12th of July, 1809, the year in which he died, Mr. Paine
+made his will. From this instrument we learn that he was the owner
+of a valuable farm within twenty miles of New York. He also was the
+owner of thirty shares in the New York Phoenix Insurance Company,
+worth upwards of fifteen hundred dollars. Besides this, some
+personal</p>
+<center>486</center>
+<p>property and ready money. By his will he gave to Walter Morton,
+and Thomas Addis Emmett, brother of Robert Emmett, two hundred
+dollars each, and one hundred to the widow of Elihu Palmer.</p>
+<p>Is it possible that this will was made by a pauper &mdash;by a
+destitute outcast&mdash;by a man who suffered for the ordinary
+necessaries of life?</p>
+<p>But suppose, for the sake of the argument, that he was poor and
+that he died a beggar, does that tend to show that the Bible is an
+inspired book and that Calvin did not burn Servetus? Do you really
+regard poverty as a crime? If Paine had died a millionaire, would
+you have accepted his religious opinions? If Paine had drank
+nothing but cold water would you have repudiated the five cardinal
+points of Calvinism? Does an argument depend for its force upon the
+pecuniary condition of the person making it? As a matter of fact,
+most reformers&mdash;most men and women of genius, have been
+acquainted with poverty. Beneath a covering of rags have been found
+some of the tenderest and bravest hearts.</p>
+<p>Owing to the attitude of the churches for the last fifteen
+hundred years, truth-telling has not been a very lucrative
+business. As a rule, hypocrisy has worn the robes, and honesty the
+rags. That day is passing away. You cannot now answer the argu</p>
+<center>487</center>
+<p>ments of a man by pointing at holes in his coat. Thomas Paine
+attacked the church when it was powerful&mdash;when it had what was
+called honors to bestow&mdash;when it was the keeper of the public
+conscience&mdash;when it was strong and cruel. The church waited
+till he was dead then attacked his reputation and his clothes.</p>
+<p>Once upon a time a donkey kicked a lion. The lion was dead.</p>
+<a name="linkCONC" id="linkCONC"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>Conclusion.</h2>
+<p>From the persistence with which the orthodox have charged for
+the last sixty-eight years that Thomas Paine recanted, and that
+when dying he was filled with remorse and fear; from the malignity
+of the attacks upon his personal character, I had concluded that
+there must be some evidence of some kind to support these charges.
+Even with my ideas of the average honor of believers in
+superstition&mdash; the disciples of fear&mdash;I did not quite
+believe that all these infamies rested solely upon poorly attested
+lies. I had charity enough to suppose that something had been said
+or done by Thomas Paine capable of being tortured into a foundation
+for these calumnies. And I was foolish enough to think that even
+you would be willing to fairly examine the pretended evidence said
+to sustain these charges, and</p>
+<center>488</center>
+<p>give your honest conclusion to the world. I supposed that you,
+being acquainted with the history of your country, felt under a
+certain obligation to Thomas Paine for the splendid services
+rendered by him in the darkest days of the Revolution. It was only
+reasonable to suppose that you were aware that in the midnight of
+Valley Forge the "Crisis," by Thomas Paine, was the first star that
+glittered in the wide horizon of despair. I took it for granted
+that you knew of the bold stand taken and the brave words spoken by
+Thomas Paine, in the French Convention, against the death of the
+king. I thought it probable that you, being an editor, had read the
+"Rights of Man;" that you knew that Thomas Paine was a champion of
+human liberty; that he was one of the founders and fathers of this
+Republic; that he was one of the foremost men of his age; that he
+had never written a word in favor of injustice; that he was a
+despiser of slavery; that he abhorred tyranny in all its forms;
+that he was in the widest and highest sense a friend of his race;
+that his head was as clear as his heart was good, and that he had
+the courage to speak his honest thought. Under these circumstances
+I had hoped that you would for the moment forget your religious
+prejudices and submit to the enlightened judgment of the world the
+evi</p>
+<center>489</center>
+<p>dence you had, or could obtain, affecting in any way the
+character of so great and so generous a man. This you have refused
+to do. In my judgment, you have mistaken the temper of even your
+own readers. A large majority of the religious people of this
+country have, to a considerable extent, outgrown the prejudices of
+their fathers. They are willing to know the truth and the whole
+truth, about the life and death of Thomas Paine. They will not
+thank you for having presented them the moss-covered, the maimed
+and distorted traditions of ignorance, prejudice, and credulity. By
+this course you will convince them not of the wickedness of Paine,
+but of your own unfairness.</p>
+<p>What crime had Thomas Paine committed that he should have feared
+to die? The only answer you can give is, that he denied the
+inspiration of the Scriptures. If this is a crime, the civilized
+world is filled with criminals. The pioneers of human thought
+&mdash;the intellectual leaders of the world&mdash;the foremost men
+in every science&mdash;the kings of literature and art&mdash;those
+who stand in the front rank of investigation&mdash;the men who are
+civilizing, elevating, instructing, and refining mankind, are
+to-day unbelievers in the dogma of inspiration. Upon this question,
+the intellect of Christendom agrees with the conclusions reached by
+the genius of Thomas Paine. Centuries</p>
+<center>490</center>
+<p>ago a noise was made for the purpose of frightening mankind.
+Orthodoxy is the echo of that noise.</p>
+<p>The man who now regards the Old Testament as in any sense a
+sacred or inspired book is, in my judgment, an intellectual and
+moral deformity. There is in it so much that is cruel, ignorant,
+and ferocious that it is to me a matter of amazement that it was
+ever thought to be the work of a most merciful deity.</p>
+<p>Upon the question of inspiration Thomas Paine gave his honest
+opinion. Can it be that to give an honest opinion causes one to die
+in terror and despair? Have you in your writings been actuated by
+the fear of such a consequence? Why should it be taken for granted
+that Thomas Paine, who devoted his life to the sacred cause of
+freedom, should have been hissed at in the hour of death by the
+snakes of conscience, while editors of Presbyterian papers who
+defended slavery as a divine institution, and cheerfully justified
+the stealing of babes from the breasts of mothers, are supposed to
+have passed smilingly from earth to the embraces of angels? Why
+should you think that the heroic author of the "Rights of Man"
+should shudderingly dread to leave this "bank and shoal of time,"
+while Calvin, dripping with the blood of Servetus, was anxious to
+be judged of God? Is it possible that the persecutors&mdash;the
+instigators of</p>
+<center>491</center>
+<p>the massacre of St. Bartholomew&mdash;the inventors and users of
+thumb-screws, and iron boots, and racks&mdash; the burners and
+tearers of human flesh&mdash;the stealers, whippers and enslavers
+of men&mdash;the buyers and beaters of babes and mothers&mdash;the
+founders of inquisitions&mdash;the makers of chains, the builders
+of dungeons, the slanderers of the living and the calumniators of
+the dead, all died in the odor of sanctity, with white, forgiven
+hands folded upon the breasts of peace, while the destroyers of
+prejudice&mdash;the apostles of humanity&mdash;the soldiers of
+liberty&mdash;the breakers of fetters&mdash;the creators of
+light&mdash;died surrounded with the fierce fiends of fear?</p>
+<p>In your attempt to destroy the character of Thomas Paine you
+have failed, and have succeeded only in leaving a stain upon your
+own. You have written words as cruel, bitter and heartless as the
+creed of Calvin. Hereafter you will stand in the pillory of history
+as a defamer&mdash;a calumniator of the dead. You will be known as
+the man who said that Thomas Paine, the "Author Hero," lived a
+drunken, cowardly and beastly life, and died a drunken and beastly
+death. These infamous words will be branded upon the forehead of
+your reputation. They will be remembered against you when all else
+you may have uttered shall have passed from the memory of men.</p>
+<p>Robert G. Ingersoll.</p>
+<a name="link0012" id="link0012"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>THE OBSERVER'S SECOND ATTACK</h2>
+<pre>
+     <i>* From the NY. Observer of Nov. 1, 1877.</i>
+</pre>
+<center>TOM PAINE AGAIN.</center>
+<p>In the Observer of September 27th, in response to numerous calls
+from different parts of the country for information, and in
+fulfillment of a promise, we presented a mass of testimony, chiefly
+from persons with whom we had been personally acquainted,
+establishing the truth of our assertions in regard to the dissolute
+life and miserable end of Paine. It was not a pleasing subject for
+discussion, and an apology, or at least an explanation, is due to
+our readers for resuming it, and for occupying so much space, or
+any space, in exhibiting the truth and the proofs in regard to the
+character of a man who had become so debased by his intemperance,
+and so vile in his habits, as to be excluded, for many years before
+and up to the time of his death, from all decent society.</p>
+<p>Our reasons for taking up the subject at all, and for presenting
+at this time so much additional testimony in regard to the facts of
+the case, are these: At different periods for the last fifty years,
+efforts</p>
+<center>493</center>
+<p>have been made by Infidels to revive and honor the memory of one
+whose friends would honor him most by suffering his name to sink
+into oblivion, if that were possible. About two years since, Rev.
+O. B. Frothingham, of this city, came to their aid, and undertook a
+sort of championship of Paine, making in a public discourse this
+statement: "No private character has been more foully calumniated
+in the name of God than that of Thomas Paine." (Mr. Frothingham, it
+will be remembered, is the one who recently, in a public discourse,
+announced the downfall of Christianity, although he very kindly
+made the allowance that, "it may be a thousand years before its
+decay will be visible to all eyes." It is our private opinion that
+it will be at least a thousand and one.) Rev. John W. Chadwick, a
+minister of the same order of unbelief, who signs himself,
+"Minister of the Second Unitarian Society in Brooklyn," has devoted
+two discourses to the same end, eulogizing Paine. In one of these,
+which we have before us in a handsomely printed pamphlet, entitled,
+"Method and Value of his (Paine's) Religious Teachings," he says:
+"Christian usage has determined that an Infidel means one who does
+not believe in Christianity as a supernatural religion; in the
+Bible as a Supernatural book; in Jesus as a super</p>
+<center>494</center>
+<p>natural person. And in this sense Paine was an Infidel, and so,
+thank God, am I." It is proper to add that Unitarians generally
+decline all responsibility for the utterances of both of these men,
+and that they compose a denomination, or rather two denominations,
+of their own.</p>
+<p>There is also a certain class of Infidels who are not quite
+prepared to meet the odium that attaches to the name; they call
+themselves Christians, but their sympathies are all with the
+enemies of Christianity, and they are not always able to conceal
+it. They have not the courage of their opinions, like Mr.
+Frothingham and Mr. Chadwick, and they work only sideways toward
+the same end. We have been no little amused since our last article
+on this subject appeared, to read some of the articles that have
+been written on the other side, though professedly on no side, and
+to observe how sincerely these men deprecate the discussion of the
+character of Paine, as an unprofitable topic. It never appeared to
+them unprofitable when the discussion was on the other side.</p>
+<p>Then, too, we have for months past been receiving letters from
+different parts of the country, asking authentic information on the
+subject and stating that the followers of Paine are making
+extraordinary efforts to circulate his writings against the
+Christian</p>
+<center>495</center>
+<p>religion, and in order to give currency to these writings they
+are endeavoring to rescue his name from the disgrace into which it
+sank during the latter years of his life. Paine spent several of
+his last years in furnishing a commentary upon his Infidel
+principles. This commentary was contained in his besotted, degraded
+life and miserable end, but his friends do not wish the commentary
+to go out in connection with his writings. They prefer to have them
+read without the comments by their author. Hence this anxiety to
+free the great apostle of Infidelity from the obloquy which his
+life brought upon his name; to represent him as a pure, noble,
+virtuous man, and to make it appear that he died a peaceful, happy
+death, just like a philosopher.</p>
+<p>But what makes the publication of the facts in the case still
+more imperative at this time is the wholesale accusation brought
+against the Christian public by the friends and admirers of Paine.
+Christian ministers as a class, and Christian journals are
+expressly accused of falsifying history, of defaming "the mighty
+dead!" (meaning Paine,) &amp;c., &amp;c. In the face of all these
+accusations it cannot be out of place to state the facts and to
+fortify the statement by satisfactory evidence, as we are
+abundantly able to do.</p>
+<center>496</center>
+<p>The two points on which we proposed to produce the testimony
+are, the character of Paine's life (referring of course to his last
+residence in this country, for no one has intimated that he had
+sunk into such besotted drunkenness until about the time of his
+return to the United States in 1802), and the real character of his
+death as consistent with such a life, and as marked further by the
+cowardliness, which has been often exhibited by Infidels in the
+same circumstances.</p>
+<p>It is nothing at all to the purpose to show, as his friends are
+fond of doing, that Paine rendered important service to the cause
+of American Independence. This is not the point under discussion
+and is not denied. No one ever called in question the valuable
+service that Benedict Arnold rendered to the country in the early
+part of the Revolutionary war; but this, with true Americans, does
+not suffice to cast a shade of loveliness or even to spread a
+mantle of charity over his subsequent career. Whatever share Paine
+had in the personal friendship of the fathers of the Revolution he
+forfeited by his subsequent life of beastly drunkenness and
+degradation, and on this account as well as on account of his
+blasphemy he was shunned by all decent people.</p>
+<p>We wish to make one or two corrections of mis</p>
+<center>497</center>
+<p>statements by Paine's advocates, on which a vast amount of
+argument has been simply wasted. We have never stated in any form,
+nor have we ever supposed, that Paine actually renounced his
+Infidelity. The accounts agree in stating that he died a
+blaspheming Infidel, and his horrible death we regard as one of the
+fruits, the fitting complement of his Infidelity. We have never
+seen anything that encouraged the hope that he was not abandoned of
+God in his last hours. But we have no doubt, on the other hand,
+that having become a wreck in body and mind through his
+intemperance, abandoned of God, deserted by his Infidel companions,
+and dependent upon Christian charity for the attentions he
+received, miserable beyond description in his condition, and seeing
+nothing to hope for in the future, he was afraid to die, and was
+ready to call upon God and upon Christ for mercy, and ready perhaps
+in the next minute to blaspheme. This is what we referred to in
+speaking of Paine's death as cowardly. It is shown in the testimony
+we have produced, and still more fully in that which we now
+present. The most wicked men are ready to call upon God in seasons
+of great peril, and sometimes ask for Christian ministrations when
+in extreme illness; but they are often ready on any alleviation of
+distress to turn to</p>
+<center>498</center>
+<p>their wickedness again, in the expressive language of Scripture,
+"as the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire."</p>
+<p>We have never stated or intimated, nor, so far as we are aware,
+has any one of our correspondents stated, that Paine died in
+poverty. It has been frequently and truthfully stated that Paine
+was dependent on Christian charity for the attentions he received
+in his last days, and so he was. His Infidel companions forsook him
+and Christian hearts and hands ministered to his wants,
+notwithstanding the blasphemies of his death-bed.</p>
+<p>Nor has one of our correspondents stated, as alleged, that Paine
+died at New Rochelle. The Rev. Dr. Wickham, who was a resident of
+that place nearly fifty years ago, and who was perfectly familiar
+with the facts of his life, wrote that Paine spent "his latter
+days" on the farm presented to him by the State of New York, which
+was strictly true, but made no reference to it as the place of his
+death.</p>
+<p>Such misrepresentations serve to show how much the advocates of
+Paine admire "truth."</p>
+<p>With these explanations we produce further evidence in regard to
+the manner of Paine's life and the character of his death, both of
+which we have already</p>
+<center>499</center>
+<p>characterized in appropriate terms, as the following testimony
+will show.</p>
+<p>In regard to Paine's "personal habits," even before his return
+to this country, and particularly his aversion to soap and water,
+Elkana Watson, a gentleman of the highest social position, who
+resided in France during a part of the Revolutionary war, and who
+was the personal friend of Washington, Franklin, and other patriots
+of the period, makes some incidental statements in his "Men and
+Times of the Revolution." Though eulogizing Paine's efforts in
+behalf of American Independence, he describes him as "coarse and
+uncouth in his manners, loathsome in his appearance, and a
+disgusting egotist." On Paine's arrival at Nantes, the Mayor and
+other distinguished citizens called upon him to pay their respects
+to the American patriot. Mr. Watson says: "He was soon rid of his
+respectable visitors, who left the room with marks of astonishment
+and disgust." Mr. W., after much entreaty, and only by promising
+him a bundle of newspapers to read while undergoing the operation,
+succeeded in prevailing on Paine to "stew, for an hour, in a hot
+bath." Mr. W. accompanied Paine to the bath, and "instructed the
+keeper, in French, (which Paine did not understand,) gradually to
+increase the heat of the water</p>
+<center>500</center>
+<p>until 'le Monsieur serait bien bouille (until the gentleman
+shall be well boiled;) and adds that "he became so much absorbed in
+his reading that he was nearlyparboiled before leaving the bath,
+much to his improvement and my satisfaction."</p>
+<p>William Carver has been cited as a witness in behalf of Paine,
+and particularly as to his "personal habits." In a letter to Paine,
+dated December 2, 1776, he bears the following testimony:</p>
+<p>"A respectable gentlemen from New Rochelle called to see me a
+few days back, and said that everybody was tired of you there, and
+no one would undertake to board and lodge you. I thought this was
+the case, as I found you at a tavern in a most miserable situation.
+You appeared as if you had not been shaved for a fortnight, and as
+to a shirt, it could not be said that you had one on. It was only
+the remains of one, and this, likewise, appeared not to have been
+off your back for a fortnight, and was nearly the color of tanned
+leather; and you had the most disagreeable smell possible; just
+like that of our poor beggars in England. Do you remember the pains
+I took to clean you? that I got a tub of warm water and soap and
+washed you from head to foot, and this I had to do three times
+before I could get you clean." (And then follow more disgusting
+details.)</p>
+<center>501</center>
+<p>"You say, also, that you found your own liquors during the time
+you boarded with me; but you should have said, 'I found only a
+small part of the liquor I drank during my stay with you; this part
+I purchased of John Fellows, which was a demijohn of brandy
+containing four gallons, and this did not serve me three weeks.'
+This can be proved, and I mean not to say anything that I cannot
+prove; for I hold truth as a precious jewel. It is a well-known
+fact, that you drank one quart of brandy per day, at my expense,
+during the different times that you have boarded with me, the
+demijohn above mentioned excepted, and the last fourteen weeks you
+were sick. Is not this a supply of liquor for dinner and supper?"
+This chosen witness in behalf of Paine, closes his letter, which is
+full of loathsome descriptions of Paine's manner of life, as
+follows:</p>
+<p>"Now, sir, I think I have drawn a complete portrait of your
+character; yet to enter upon every minutiae would be to give a
+history of your life, and to develop the fallacious mask of
+hypocrisy and deception under which you have acted in your
+political as well as moral capacity of life."</p>
+<p>(Signed) "William Carver."</p>
+<p>Carver had the same opinion of Paine to his dying day. When an
+old man, and an Infidel of the Paine</p>
+<center>502</center>
+<p>type and habits, he was visited by the Rev. E. F. Hatfield,
+D.D., of this city, who writes to us of his interview with Carver,
+under date of Sept. 27, 1877: "I conversed with him nearly an hour.
+I took special pains to learn from him all that I could about
+Paine, whose landlord he had been for eighteen months. He spoke of
+him as a base and shameless drunkard, utterly destitute of moral
+principle. His denunciations of the man were perfectly fearful, and
+fully confirmed, in my apprehension, all that had been written of
+Paine's immorality and repulsiveness." Cheetham's Life of Paine,
+which was published the year that he died, and which has passed
+through several editions (we have three of them now before us)
+describes a man lost to all moral sensibility and to all sense of
+decency, a habitual drunkard, and it is simply incredible that a
+book should have appeared so soon after the death of its subject
+and should have been so frequently republished without being at
+once refuted, if the testimony were not substantially true. Many
+years later, when it was found necessary to bolster up the
+reputation of Paine, Cheetham's Memoirs were called a pack of lies.
+If only onetenth part of what he publishes circumstantially in his
+volume, as facts in regard to Paine, were true, all that has been
+written against him in later years does</p>
+<center>503</center>
+<p>not begin to set forth the degraded character of the man's life.
+And with all that has been written on the subject we see no good
+reason to doubt the substantial accuracy of Cheetham's portrait of
+the man whom he knew so well.</p>
+<p>Dr. J. W. Francis, well-known as an eminent physician, of this
+city, in his Reminiscences of New York, says of Paine:</p>
+<p>"He who, in his early days, had been associated with, and had
+received counsel from Franklin, was, in his old age, deserted by
+the humblest menial; he, whose pen has proved a very sword among
+nations, had shaken empires, and made kings tremble, now yielded up
+the mastery to the most treacherous of tyrants, King Alcohol."</p>
+<p>The physician who attended Paine during his last illness was Dr.
+James R. Manley, a gentleman of the highest character. A letter of
+his, written in October of the year that Paine died, fully
+corroborates the account of his state as recorded by Stephen
+Grellet in his Memoirs, which we have already printed. He
+writes:</p>
+<p>"New York, October 2, 1809: I was called upon by accident to
+visit Mr. Paine, on the 25th of February last, and found him
+indisposed with fever, and very apprehensive of an attack of
+apoplexy, as he</p>
+<center>504</center>
+<p>stated that he had that disease before, and at this time felt a
+great degree of vertigo, and was unable to help himself as he had
+hitherto done, on account of an intense pain above the eyes. On
+inquiry of the attendants I was told that three or four days
+previously he had concluded to dispense with his usual quantity of
+accustomed stimulus and that he had on that day resumed it. To the
+want of his usual drink they attributed his illness, and it is
+highly probable that the usual quantity operating upon a state of
+system more excited from the above privations, was the cause of the
+symptoms of which he then complained.... And here let me be
+permitted to observe (lest blame might attach to those whose
+business it was to pay any particular attention to his cleanliness
+of person) that it was absolutely impossible to effect that
+purpose. Cleanliness appeared to make no part of his comfort; he
+seemed to have a singular aversion to soap and water; he would
+never ask to be washed, and when he was he would always make
+objections; and it was not unusual to wash and to dress him clean
+very much against his inclinations. In this deplorable state, with
+confirmed dropsy, attended with frequent cough, vomiting and
+hiccough, he continued growing from bad to worse till the morning
+of the 8th of June,</p>
+<center>505</center>
+<p>when he died. Though I may remark that during the last three
+weeks of his life his situation was such that his decease was
+confidently expected every day, his ulcers having assumed a
+gangrenous appearance, being excessively fetid, and discolored
+blisters having taken place on the soles of his feet without any
+ostensible cause, which baffled the usual attempts to arrest their
+progress; and when we consider his former habits, his advanced age,
+the feebleness of his constitution, his constant habit of using
+ardent spirits ad libitum till the commencement of his last
+illness, so far from wondering that he died so soon, we are
+constrained to ask, How did he live so long? Concerning his conduct
+during his disease I have not much to remark, though the little I
+have may be somewhat interesting. Mr. Paine professed to be above
+the fear of death, and a great part of his conversation was
+principally directed to give the impression that he was perfectly
+willing to leave this world, and yet some parts of his conduct were
+with difficulty reconcilable with his belief. In the first stages
+of his illness he was satisfied to be left alone during the day,
+but he required some person to be with him at night, urging as his
+reason that he was afraid that he should die when unattended, and
+at this period his deportment and his principle seemed to be
+con</p>
+<center>506</center>
+<p>sistent; so much so that a stranger would judge from some of the
+remarks he would make that he was an Infidel. I recollect being
+with him at night, watching; he was very apprehensive of a speedy
+dissolution, and suffered great distress of body, and perhaps of
+mind (for he was waiting the event of an application to the Society
+of Friends for permission that his corpse might be deposited in
+their grave-ground, and had reason to believe that the request
+might be refused), when he remarked in these words, 'I think I can
+say what they made Jesus Christ to say&mdash;"My God, my God! why
+hast thou forsaken me?" He went on to observe on the want of that
+respect which he conceived he merited, when I observed to him that
+I thought his corpse should be matter of least concern to him; that
+those whom he would leave behind him would see that he was properly
+interred, and, further, that it would be of little consequence to
+me where I was deposited provided I was buried; upon which he
+answered that he had nothing else to talk about, and that he would
+as lief talk of his death as of anything, but that he was not so
+indifferent about his corpse as I appeared to be.</p>
+<p>"During the latter part of his life, though his conversation was
+equivocal, his conduct was singular; he could not be left alone
+night or day; he not only</p>
+<center>507</center>
+<p>required to have some person with him, but he must see that he
+or she was there, and would not allow his curtain to be closed at
+any time; and if, as it would sometimes unavoidably happen, he was
+left alone, he would scream and halloo until some person came to
+him. When relief from pain would admit, he seemed thoughtful and
+contemplative, his eyes being generally closed, and his hands
+folded upon his breast, although he never slept without the
+assistance of an anodyne. There was something remarkable in his
+conduct about this period (which comprises about two weeks
+immediately preceding his death), particularly when we reflect that
+Thomas Paine was the author of the 'Age of Reason.' He would call
+out during his paroxysms of distress, without intermission, 'O Lord
+help me! God help me! Jesus Christ help me! Lord help me!' etc.,
+repeating the same expressions without the least variation, in a
+tone of voice that would alarm the house. It was this conduct which
+induced me to think that he had abandoned his former opinions, and
+I was more inclined to that belief when I understood from his nurse
+(who is a very serious and, I believe, pious woman), that he would
+occasionally inquire, when he saw her engaged with a book, what she
+was reading, and, being answered, and at the same time asked</p>
+<center>508</center>
+<p>whether she should read aloud, he assented, and would appear to
+give particular attention.</p>
+<p>"I took occasion during the nights of the fifth and sixth of
+June to test the strength of his opinions respecting revelation. I
+purposely made him a very late visit; it was a time which seemed to
+suit exactly with my errand; it was midnight, he was in great
+distress, constantly exclaiming in the words above mentioned, when,
+after a considerable preface, I addressed him in the following
+manner, the nurse being present: 'Mr. Paine, your opinions, by a
+large portion of the community, have been treated with deference,
+you have never been in the habit of mixing in your conversation
+words of coarse meaning; you have never indulged in the practice of
+profane swearing; you must be sensible that we are acquainted with
+your religious opinions as they are given to the world. What must
+we think of your present conduct? Why do you call upon Jesus Christ
+to help you? Do you believe that he can help you? Do you believe in
+the divinity of Jesus Christ? Come, now, answer me honestly. I want
+an answer from the lips of a dying man, for I verily believe that
+you will not live twenty-four hours.' I waited some time at the end
+of every question; he did not answer, but ceased to exclaim in the
+above</p>
+<center>509</center>
+<p>manner. Again I addressed him; 'Mr. Paine, you have not answered
+my questions; will you answer them? Allow me to ask again, do you
+believe? or let me qualify the question, do you wish to believe
+that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?' After a pause of some
+minutes, he answered, 'I have no wish to believe on that subject.'
+I then left him, and knew not whether he afterward spoke to any
+person on any subject, though he lived, as I before observed, till
+the morning of the 8th. Such conduct, under usual circumstances, I
+conceive absolutely unaccountable, though, with diffidence, I would
+remark, not so much so in the present instance; for though the
+first necessary and general result of conviction be a sincere wish
+to atone for evil committed, yet it may be a question worthy of
+able consideration whether excessive pride of opinion, consummate
+vanity, and inordinate self-love might not prevent or retard that
+otherwise natural consequence. For my own part, I believe that had
+not Thomas Paine been such a distinguished Infidel he would have
+left less equivocal evidences of a change of opinion. Concerning
+the persons who visited Mr. Paine in his distress as his personal
+friends, I heard very little, though I may observe that their
+number was small, and of that number there were not wanting those
+who endeavor</p>
+<center>510</center>
+<p>ed to support him in his deistical opinions, and to encourage
+him to 'die like a man,' to 'hold fast his integrity,' lest
+Christians, or, as they were pleased to term them, hypocrites,
+might take advantage of his weakness, and furnish themselves with a
+weapon by which they might hope to destroy their glorious system of
+morals. Numbers visited him from motives of benevolence and
+Christian charity, endeavoring to effect a change of mind in
+respect to his religious sentiments. The labor of such was
+apparently lost, and they pretty generally received such treatment
+from him as none but good men would risk a second time, though some
+of those persons called frequently." The following testimony will
+be new to most of our readers. It is from a letter written by
+Bishop Fenwick (Roman Catholic Bishop of Boston), containing a full
+account of a visit which he paid to Paine in his last illness. It
+was printed in the <i>United States Catholic Magazine</i> for 1846;
+in the <i>Catholic Herald</i> of Philadelphia, October 15, 1846; in
+a supplement to the <i>Hartford Courant</i>, October 23, 1847; and
+in <i>Littell's Living Age</i> for January 22, 1848, from which we
+copy. Bishop Fenwick writes:</p>
+<p>"A short time before Paine died I was sent for by him. He was
+prompted to this by a poor Catholic woman who went to see him in
+his sickness, and</p>
+<center>511</center>
+<p>who told him, among other things, that in his wretched condition
+if anybody could do him any good it would be a Roman Catholic
+priest. This woman was an American convert (formerly a Shaking
+Quakeress) whom I had received into the church but a few weeks
+before. She was the bearer of this message to me from Paine. I
+stated this circumstance to F. Kohlmann, at breakfast, and
+requested him to accompany me. After some solicitation on my part
+he agreed to do so? at which I was greatly rejoiced, because I was
+at the time quite young and inexperienced in the ministry, and was
+glad to have his assistance, as I knew, from the great reputation
+of Paine, that I should have to do with one of the most impious as
+well as infamous of men. We shortly after set out for the house at
+Greenwich where Paine lodged, and on the way agreed on a mode of
+proceeding with him.</p>
+<p>"We arrived at the house; a decent-looking elderly woman
+(probably his housekeeper,) came to the door and inquired whether
+we were the Catholic priests, for said she, 'Mr. Paine has been so
+much annoyed of late by other denominations calling upon him that
+he has left express orders with me to admit no one to-day but the
+clergymen of the Catholic Church. Upon assuring her that we were
+Catholic</p>
+<center>512</center>
+<p>clergymen she opened the door and showed us into the parlor. She
+then left the room and shortly after returned to inform us that
+Paine was asleep, and, at the same time, expressed a wish that we
+would not disturb him, 'for,' said she, 'he is always in a bad
+humor when roused out of his sleep. It is better we wait a little
+till he be awake.' We accordingly sat down and resolved to await a
+more favorable moment. 'Gentlemen,' said the lady, after having
+taken her seat also, 'I really wish you may succeed with Mr. Paine,
+for he is laboring under great distress of mind ever since he was
+informed by his physicians that he cannot possibly live and must
+die shortly. He sent for you to-day because he was told that if any
+one could do him good you might. Possibly he may think you know of
+some remedy which his physicians are ignorant of. He is truly to be
+pitied. His cries when he is left alone are heart-rending. 'O Lord
+help me!' he will exclaim during his paroxysms of
+distress&mdash;'God help me&mdash;Jesus Christ help me!' repeating
+the same expressions without the least variation, in a tone of
+voice that would alarm the house. Sometimes he will say, 'O God,
+what have I done to suffer so much!' then, shortly after, 'But
+there is no God,' and again a little after, 'Yet if there should
+be, what would become of me hereafter.'</p>
+<center>513</center>
+<p>Thus he will continue for some time, when on a sudden he will
+scream, as if in terror and agony, and call out for me by name. On
+one of these occasions, which are very frequent, I went to him and
+inquired what he wanted. 'Stay with me,' he replied, 'for God's
+sake, for I cannot bear to be left alone.' I then observed that I
+could not always be with him, as I had much to attend to in the
+house. 'Then,' said he, 'send even a child to stay with me, for it
+is a hell to be alone.' 'I never saw,' she concluded, 'a more
+unhappy, a more forsaken man. It seems he cannot reconcile himself
+to die.'</p>
+<p>"Such was the conversation of the woman who had received us, and
+who probably had been employed to nurse and take care of him during
+his illness. She was a Protestant, yet seemed very desirous that we
+should afford him some relief in his state of abandonment,
+bordering on complete despair. Having remained thus some time in
+the parlor, we at length heard a noise in the adjoining
+passage-way, which induced us to believe that Mr. Paine, who was
+sick in that room, had awoke. We accordingly proposed to proceed
+thither, which was assented to by the woman, and she opened the
+door for us. On entering, we found him just getting out of his
+slumber. A more wretched being in appearance I</p>
+<center>514</center>
+<p>never beheld. He was lying in a bed sufficiently decent of
+itself, but at present besmeared with filth; his look was that of a
+man greatly tortured in mind; his eyes haggard, his countenance
+forbidding, and his whole appearance that of one whose better days
+had been one continued scene of debauch. His only nourishment at
+this time, as we were informed, was nothing more than milk punch,
+in which he indulged to the full extent of his weak state. He had
+partaken, undoubtedly, but very recently of it, as the sides and
+corners of his mouth exhibited very unequivocal traces of it, as
+well as of blood, which had also followed in the track and left its
+mark on the pillow. His face, to a certain extent, had also been
+besmeared with it."</p>
+<p>Immediately upon their making known the object of their visit,
+Paine interrupted the speaker by saying: "That's enough, sir;
+that's enough," and again interrupting him, "I see what you would
+be about. I wish to hear no more from you, sir. My mind is made up
+on that subject. I look upon the whole of the Christian scheme to
+be a tissue of absurdities and lies, and Jesus Christ to be nothing
+more than a cunning knave and impostor." He drove them out of the
+room, exclaiming: Away with you and your God, too; leave the room
+instantly; all that you</p>
+<center>515</center>
+<p>have uttered are lies&mdash;filthy lies; and if I had a little
+more time I would prove it, as I did about your impostor, Jesus
+Christ."</p>
+<p>This, we think, will suffice. We have a mass of letters
+containing statements confirmatory of what we have published in
+regard to the life and death of Paine, but nothing more can be
+required.</p>
+<a name="link0013" id="link0013"><!-- H2 anchor --></a>
+<div style="height: 4em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+<h2>INGERSOLL'S SECOND REPLY.</h2>
+<h3>Peoria, Nov. 2d, 1877.</h3>
+<p>To the Editor of the New York Observer:</p>
+<p>You ought to have honesty enough to admit that you did, in your
+paper of July 19th, offer to prove that the absurd story that
+Thomas Paine died in terror and agony on account of the religious
+opinions he had expressed, was true. You ought to have fairness
+enough to admit that you called upon me to deposit one thousand
+dollars with an honest man, that you might, by proving that Thomas
+Paine did die in terror, obtain the money.</p>
+<p>You ought to have honor enough to admit that you challenged me
+and that you commenced the controversy concerning Thomas Paine.</p>
+<p>You ought to have goodness enough to admit that you were
+mistaken in the charges you made.</p>
+<p>You ought to have manhood enough to do what you falsely asserted
+that Thomas Paine did:&mdash;you ought to recant. You ought to
+admit publicly that you slandered the dead; that you falsified
+history; that you defamed the defenceless; that you deliber</p>
+<center>517</center>
+<p>ately denied what you had published in your own paper. There is
+an old saying to the effect that open confession is good for the
+soul. To you is presented a splendid opportunity of testing the
+truth of this saying.</p>
+<p>Nothing has astonished me more than your lack of common honesty
+exhibited in this controversy. In your last, you quote from Dr. J.
+W. Francis. Why did you leave out that portion in which Dr. Francis
+says <i>that Cheetham with settled malignity wrote the life of
+Paine?</i> Why did you leave out that part in which Dr. Francis
+says that Cheetham in the same way <i>slandered Alexander Hamilton
+and De Witt Clinton?</i> Is it your business to suppress the truth?
+Why did you not publish the entire letter of Bishop Fenwick? Was it
+because it proved beyond all cavil that Thomas Paine did not
+recant? Was it because in the light of that letter Mary Roscoe,
+Mary Hinsdale and Grant Thorburn appeared unworthy of belief? Dr.
+J. W. Francis says in the same article from which you quoted,
+"<i>Paine clung to his Infidelity until the last moment of his
+life!'</i> Why did you not publish that? It was the first line
+immediately above what you did quote. You must have seen it. Why
+did you suppress it? A lawyer, doing a thing of this character, is
+denominated a</p>
+<center>518</center>
+<p>shyster. I do not know the appropriate word to designate a
+theologian guilty of such an act.</p>
+<p>You brought forward three witnesses, pretending to have personal
+knowledge about the life and death of Thomas Paine: Grant Thorburn,
+Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale. In my reply I took the ground that
+Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale must have been the same person. I
+thought it impossible that Paine should have had a conversation
+with Mary Roscoe, and then one precisely like it with Mary
+Hinsdale. Acting upon this conviction, I proceeded to show that the
+conversation never could have happened, that it was absurdly false
+to say that Paine asked the opinion of a girl as to his works who
+had never read but little of them. I then showed by the testimony
+of William Cobbett, that he visited Mary Hinsdale in 1819, taking
+with him a statement concerning the recantation of Paine, given him
+by Mr. Collins, and that upon being shown this statement she said
+that "it was so long ago that she could not speak positively to any
+part of the matter&mdash;that she would not say any part of the
+paper was true." At that time she knew nothing, and remembered
+nothing. I also showed that she was a kind of standing witness to
+prove that others recanted. Willett Hicks denounced her as unworthy
+of belief.</p>
+<center>519</center>
+<p>To-day the following from the New York <i>World</i> was
+received, showing that I was right in my conjecture:</p>
+<p>Tom Paine's Death-Bed.</p>
+<p><i>To the Editor of the World</i>:</p>
+<p>Sir: I see by your paper that Bob Ingersoll discredits Mary
+Hinsdale's story of the scenes which occurred at the death-bed of
+Thomas Paine. No one who knew that good lady would for one moment
+doubt her veracity or question her testimony. Both she and her
+husband were Quaker preachers, and well known and respected
+inhabitants of New York City, <i>Ingersoll is right in his
+conjecture that Mary Roscoe and Mary Hinsdale was the same
+person</i>. Her maiden name was Roscoe, and she married Henry
+Hinsdale. My mother was a Roscoe, a niece of Mary Roscoe, and lived
+with her for some time. I have heard her relate the story of Tom
+Paine's dying remorse, as told her by her aunt, who was a witness
+to it. She says (in a letter I have just received from her), "he
+(Tom Paine) suffered fearfully from remorse, and renounced his
+Infidel principles, calling on God to forgive him, and wishing his
+pamphlets and books to be burned, saying he could not die in peace
+until it was done." (Rev.) A. W. Cornell.</p>
+<p>Harpersville, New York.</p>
+<center>520</center>
+<p>You will notice that the testimony of Mary Hinsdale has been
+drawing interest since 1809, and has materially increased. If Paine
+"suffered fearfully from remorse, renounced his Infidel opinions
+and called on God to forgive him," it is hardly generous for the
+Christian world to fasten the fangs of malice in the flesh of his
+reputation.</p>
+<p>So Mary Roscoe was Mary Hinsdale, and as Mary Hinsdale has been
+shown by her own admission to Mr. Cobbett to have known nothing of
+the matter; and as Mary Hinsdale was not, according to Willet
+Hicks, worthy of belief&mdash;as she told a falsehood of the same
+kind about Mary Lockwood, and was, according to Mr. Collins,
+addicted to the use of opium&mdash;this disposes of her and her
+testimony.</p>
+<p>There remains upon the stand Grant Thorburn. Concerning this
+witness, I received, yesterday, from the eminent biographer and
+essayist, James Parton, the following epistle:</p>
+<p>Newburyport, Mass.</p>
+<p>Col. R. G. Ingersoll:</p>
+<p>Touching Grant Thorburn, I personally know him to have been a
+dishonest man. At the age of ninetytwo he copied, with trembling
+hand, a piece from a newspaper and brought it to the office of the
+<i>Home Journal, as his own</i>. It was I who received it and</p>
+<center>521</center>
+<p>detected the deliberate forgery. If you are ever going to
+continue this subject, I will give you the exact facts.</p>
+<p>Fervently yours,</p>
+<p>James Parton.</p>
+<p>After this, you are welcome to what remains of Grant
+Thorburn.</p>
+<p>There is one thing that I have noticed during this controversy
+regarding Thomas Paine. In no instance that I now call to mind has
+any Christian writer spoken respectfully of Mr. Paine. All have
+taken particular pains to call him "Tom" Paine. Is it not a little
+strange that religion should make men so coarse and
+ill-mannered?</p>
+<p>I have often wondered what these same gentlemen would say if I
+should speak of the men eminent in the annals of Christianity in
+the same way. What would they say if I should write about "Tim"
+Dwight, old "Ad" Clark, "Tom" Scott, "Jim" McKnight, "Bill"
+Hamilton, "Dick" Whately, "Bill" Paley, and "Jack" Calvin?</p>
+<p>They would <i>say</i> of me then, just what I <i>think</i> of
+them now.</p>
+<p>Even if we have religion, do not let us try to get along without
+good manners. Rudeness is exceedingly unbecoming, even in a saint.
+Persons who</p>
+<center>522</center>
+<p>forgive their enemies ought, to say the least, to treat with
+politeness those who have never injured them.</p>
+<p>It is exceedingly gratifying to me that I have compelled you to
+say that "Paine died a blaspheming Infidel." Hereafter it is to be
+hoped nothing will be heard about his having recanted. As an answer
+to such slander his friends can confidently quote the following
+from the <i>New York Observer</i> of November ist, 1877:</p>
+<p>"WE HAVE NEVER STATED IN ANY FORM, NOR HAVE WE EVER SUPPOSED
+THAT PAINE ACTUALLY RENOUNCED HIS INFIDELITY. THE ACCOUNTS AGREE IN
+STATING THAT HE DIED A BLASPHEMING INFIDEL."</p>
+<p>This for all coming time will refute the slanders of the
+churches yet to be.</p>
+<p>Right here allow me to ask: If you never supposed that Paine
+renounced his Infidelity, why did you try to prove by Mary Hinsdale
+that which you believed to be untrue?</p>
+<p>From the bottom of my heart I thank myself for having compelled
+you to admit that Thomas Paine did not recant.</p>
+<p>For the purpose of verifying your own admission concerning the
+death of Mr. Paine, permit me to call your attention to the
+following affidavit:</p>
+<center>523</center>
+<p>Wabash, Indiana, October 27, 1877.</p>
+<p>Col. R. G. Ingersoll:</p>
+<p>Dear Sir: The following statement of facts is at your disposal.
+In the year 1833 Willet Hicks made a visit to Indiana and stayed
+over night at my father's house, four miles east of Richmond. In
+the morning at breakfast my mother asked Willet Hicks the following
+questions:</p>
+<p>"Was thee with Thomas Paine during his last sickness?"</p>
+<p>Mr. Hicks said: "I was with him every day during the latter part
+of his last sickness."</p>
+<p>"Did he express any regret in regard to writing the 'Age of
+Reason,' as the published accounts say he did&mdash;those accounts
+that have the credit of emanating from his Catholic
+housekeeper?"</p>
+<p>Mr. Hicks replied: "He did not in any way by word or
+action."</p>
+<p>"Did he call on God or Jesus Christ, asking either of them to
+forgive his sins, or did he curse them or either of them?"</p>
+<p>Mr. Hicks answered: "He did not. He died as easy as any one I
+ever saw die, and I have seen many die in my time." William B
+Barnes.</p>
+<p>Subscribed and sworn to before me Oct. 27, 1877.</p>
+<p>Warren Bigler, Notary Public.</p>
+<center>524</center>
+<p>You say in your last that "Thomas Paine was abandoned of God."
+So far as this controversy is concerned, it seems to me that in
+that sentence you have most graphically described your own
+condition.</p>
+<p>Wishing you success in all honest undertakings, I remain,</p>
+<p>Yours truly,</p>
+<p>Robert G. Ingersoll.</p>
+<div style="height: 6em;"><br />
+<br />
+<br />
+
+<br />
+<table summary="" border="3" cellpadding="4">
+<tbody>
+<tr>
+<td><big><big><a href="http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38813/38813-h/38813-h.htm">
+TABLE OF CONTENTS FOR ALL 12 EBOOKS IN THIS SET</a></big></big></td>
+<td></td>
+</tr>
+</tbody>
+</table>
+<br />
+
+<br />
+<br />
+<br /></div>
+</body>
+</html>