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diff --git a/old/65022-0.txt b/old/65022-0.txt deleted file mode 100644 index 113fb3a..0000000 --- a/old/65022-0.txt +++ /dev/null @@ -1,7206 +0,0 @@ -The Project Gutenberg eBook of Remarks on the Present System of Road -Making, by John Loudon McAdam - -This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere in the United States and -most other parts of the world at no cost and with almost no restrictions -whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it under the terms -of the Project Gutenberg License included with this eBook or online at -www.gutenberg.org. If you are not located in the United States, you -will have to check the laws of the country where you are located before -using this eBook. - -Title: Remarks on the Present System of Road Making - With Observations, Deduced from Practice and Experience, With a - View to a Revision of the Existing Laws, and the Introduction of - Improvement in the Method of Making, Repairing, and Preserving - Roads, and Defending the Road Funds from Misapplication. Seventh - Edition, Carefully Revised, With an Appendix, and Report from the - Select Committee of the House of Commons, June 1823, with Extracts - from the Evidence - -Author: John Loudon McAdam - -Release Date: April 07, 2021 [eBook #65022] - -Language: English - -Character set encoding: UTF-8 - -Produced by: Richard Tonsing and the Online Distributed Proofreading Team - at https://www.pgdp.net (This file was produced from images - generously made available by The Internet Archive) - -*** START OF THE PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK REMARKS ON THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF -ROAD MAKING *** - - - - - REMARKS - - ON THE PRESENT - - _SYSTEM OF ROAD MAKING, &c._ - - - - - H. Bryer, Printer, - Bridge-street, Blackfriars. - - - - - REMARKS - ON THE PRESENT - _SYSTEM OF ROAD MAKING_; - WITH OBSERVATIONS, - DEDUCED FROM PRACTICE AND EXPERIENCE, -WITH A VIEW TO A REVISION OF THE EXISTING LAWS, AND THE INTRODUCTION OF - IMPROVEMENT IN - THE METHOD OF MAKING, REPAIRING, AND PRESERVING ROADS, - AND - DEFENDING THE ROAD FUNDS FROM MISAPPLICATION. - SEVENTH EDITION, - CAREFULLY REVISED, WITH AN - APPENDIX, - AND - REPORT FROM THE SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, JUNE 1823, - _WITH EXTRACTS FROM THE EVIDENCE_. - - - BY JOHN LOUDON MᶜADAM, ESQ. - - GENERAL SURVEYOR OF THE ROADS IN THE BRISTOL DISTRICT. - - - _LONDON_: - - PRINTED FOR LONGMAN, HURST, REES, ORME, AND BROWN, PATERNOSTER ROW. - - 1823. - - - - - ADVERTISEMENT. - - -Since the Publication of the early editions of this Essay, the Author -has witnessed with very great satisfaction the amendment of a large -proportion of the Turnpike Roads, and some improvement of the Parish -Roads. That the reformation has not been more extensive and successful, -may be attributed to the error still persisted in by Trustees, of -continuing the services of persons as Road Surveyors, who are not only -altogether ignorant of the business they profess, but full of prejudices -in favour of their own erroneous practice. - -Another and a greater error has been committed lately, in several parts -of the Country, and which has entirely arisen from the desire -entertained of using the new method of Road making. This very dangerous -error consists in employing persons who offer themselves as having been -instructed in Road making on scientific principles, without due inquiry -respecting their skill, industry, and moral character. - -Among the many persons who present themselves to be instructed, a very -small proportion acquire a competent knowledge of their profession, and -this number is farther diminished by subsequent dismission for -negligence, drunkenness, and dishonesty. - -Of these rejected and incapable persons, great numbers are spread over -the Country, soliciting employment; and many have been incautiously -engaged by Trustees, without inquiry either as to their character or -their ability in their profession. - -Under the most favourable circumstances for the constant and vigilant -control of a master, whose public credit depends on the economical and -skilful performance of the work, it is difficult to keep sub-surveyors -in the strict line of their duty; but it may be easily conceived how -much the public must suffer from accepting the services of men rejected -for gross misconduct, and placing them in situations of confidence, -altogether freed from the only control capable of being exerted with -effect. This error, although of recent date, has already been attended -with very disastrous consequences in several places. - -A practical experience of Six Years, has served to confirm the opinion -of the Author, that the control of Commissioners over surveyors is -altogether ineffectual; whether for direction in their active duties, or -for protecting the funds of Trusts from waste and peculation. The -unceasing control, and minute inspection of a person whom the surveyors -know to be as much their superior in skill and general information, as -in station in society, and in the confidence of the Commissioners, is -absolutely necessary for the protection of the Roads. Where such control -is duly exercised, good management with economy will be the result; and -wherever a mistaken notion of economy shall continue to prevent the -application of such wholesome and necessary control, the roads will be -imperfectly repaired, and the funds dissipated. - -It appears from the returns made to Parliament, that the sum annually -raised for the use of the Roads exceeds the neat revenue of the Post -Office; yet is this very large sum expended through the hands of persons -of the lowest rank in society, under an appearance of control; which -equally deceives the public and deludes the expectation of those who -conduct the general business of the Roads. - -Commissioners can only act with effect, as a deliberative body; and -their most beneficial resolutions are rendered valueless, through want -of a steady executive power. Any attempt on the part of _individual_ -Commissioners to exercise this power is a still more dangerous course. -The designs of the majority may thus be impeded, or thwarted by the -subsequent interference of a single person. - -All other branches of the public revenue are defended by the station and -character of the persons, under whose care they are placed. The -Legislature and the Government have wisely considered it important (with -a view to economy) to purchase talents, and station, as a protection for -every branch of the public expenditure; but in the case of the Roads -they have miscalculated the power and effect of the controlling and -directing authority. A proper comparison has not been made of the -duties, or of the effect of the exertions of a body composed of unpaid -and unresponsible individuals, like the road Commissioners, and those of -bodies composed of Boards of Commissioners, in the pay, and responsible -to the Government for the due administration of the trust reposed in -them: having also proper officers equally responsible as themselves to -act under their directions. The state of the public roads, the alarming -amount of an increasing debt, the loose and neglected state of the -accounts of the several Trusts, are the best proofs of the defects of -the system, and of its comparative inefficiency. - -The returns made to Parliament by the several Trusts in the kingdom -(defective as they are) afford matter for serious reflection. England -alone, is divided into 955 little Trusts which may be considered, in -fact, as hostile to each other; while it is evident that unity of action -is of vital importance among Commissioners of the same branch of the -public service, for effecting the great object of their appointment. -While therefore each of those small communities is liable to be biassed -by individual interest or feeling, it will hardly be deemed inexpedient -to recommend some central control over the District Commissioners, that -may have the effect of regulating the eccentricity of their measures, as -well as giving their views, in many instances, a better direction. This -central control will be most beneficially established in each county, -under such regulations, and with such powers as the wisdom of Parliament -may deem most effectual. - -A General Road Act must, in order to adapt itself to the exigences of -the times, embrace a comprehensive view of the subject: and effectually -remedy all the great evils which have originated in the weakness of the -system, and have been allowed to grow up, through a want of attention to -the altered state of the commerce, agriculture, manufactures, and -general interests of the kingdom. Until the Legislature shall be pleased -to enter into a serious consideration of the subject, no general and -useful amendment can take place. The great debt, (exceeding at this -moment Seven Millions,) will continue to increase, and improvement will -still be impeded by obstacles not removeable by any other power except -the authority of Parliament. - - - - - PREFACE - TO THE - SEVENTH EDITION. - - -In preparing another edition of the various papers on roads, which I -have published during the last six years, it may be useful to take a -slight review of the subject, and of the gradual progress of road -improvement throughout the country. - -That any further information should be called for, after the numerous -additions made to the original pamphlet, (particularly the last -communication to the Board of Agriculture,) is a convincing proof of the -impossibility of conveying adequate instructions for practical purposes, -by means of the press. It is, however, of the utmost importance that the -_theory_ be fully understood, as from want of comprehending the original -nature of the system have arisen the many fruitless attempts at -imitation, which have cost such vast sums to the public. - -The practical utility of some parts of the system is so obvious, that -they have been acted upon in various places, without any desire of -further improvement. It is uncommon now, to meet with roads repaired -with large stones, or of the dangerous convex form, which was the -universal custom about five years ago; but these improvements being -merely grafted on the old erroneous method, have never been attended -with the rapid diminution of expense, and the durable advantages which -immediately result from the adoption of the entire system as recommended -by me. - -Those who continue to use any part of the old method of road-making, are -not, perhaps, aware of the principles upon which they are acting. I have -formerly remarked, that the old roads of the country were generally -carried along the tops of hills in search of dry or strong ground; and -it is plain that the first turnpike roads were merely attempts to open -more direct communications through the country, in continuing, by -mechanical means, the rocky paths, to which travellers were obliged to -resort. With this view, large masses of stone were first sunk into the -ground, and afterwards thick layers of broken stone strewed over them, -so as, in fact, to form an artificial rock. The insecurity of this -unskilful structure must be obvious. The rain penetrating through every -part of the surface kept it continually in a loose state, and as it was -imbedded _below_ the _ground_ water, it was constantly broken up in -winter by the frost. Hence the vast sums required for the forming new -roads, and the heavy and incessant expense of keeping them in a passable -state. Any improvements that have been made on this plan, merely relate -to the smoothness of the surface, by more carefully laying on the -stones, at, consequently, a greater expense: but the original principle -remains the same in every road, except those where the new system has -been fully adopted. Under such disadvantages, it is not surprizing that -the roads of the kingdom have not kept pace with the advancement of -every other useful art. The large sums demanded for the first outlay, -and the frequent failure of such speculations from the badness of the -roads, and the expense of their subsequent repairs, sufficiently account -for the tardy progress of road-making. From conviction of the very -insufficient and expensive nature of the method in use, I was led to -consider of the possibility of constructing lines of communication, -capable of conveying the heaviest weights over every kind of soil, and -at all seasons, upon principles purely scientific: a plan, which even in -theory differs as widely from the inartificial methods of road-making -hitherto practised, as the principle by which an arch is thrown over a -river, differs from the heap of stones which constitutes the ford. - -The actual experience of seven years, the great extent of road which has -been entirely constructed according to my direction, and the -unquestionable testimony of the Committees of the House of Commons -appointed to enquire into this matter, have now placed the efficiency of -the discovery beyond a doubt. It remains with the country to consider of -the most wise and effectual mode of securing the benefit of the system. - -Whoever has attentively considered the weakness and inadequacy of the -present road laws, to protect the great interest at stake, must be aware -of the urgent necessity for some new legislative measures, more adapted -to the present state of the country. The roads are, perhaps, the most -important branch of our domestic economy. The revenue collected for -their support equals that of the Post-office; and any failure in -executing the work, operates as a severe check upon our commerce, -manufactures, and agriculture. Yet a public service of such vital -importance, continues to be regulated solely by the narrow policy and -limited views of the first Turnpike Act, (which were, in fact, mere -experiments in legislation,) while this immense revenue is abandoned to -the discretion or the cupidity of the lower orders of society. - -The benefit which I have aspired to render the country, is of a twofold -nature; and my labours have been as constantly directed towards the -introduction of a wise and well-regulated system of management for the -roads, as towards their mechanical construction. I have always expressed -a conviction, that no permanent improvement could take place in road -affairs, without the interference of the legislature; nor has the -success attending the efforts of my family, in various places, in any -way tended to weaken that opinion. The advantages of the new method of -making roads are so apparent, they have not failed of attracting -attention; but I have not been equally fortunate in inducing the -gentlemen of the country to observe the _means_ by which _economy_ and -improvement have been combined. - -It is not only to the simplicity and cheapness of the new system, that -the great difference of expense is owing. In every place where the -system has been properly acted upon, care has been taken to place the -road business on the same respectable footing as other branches of the -public service; a complete executive department has been created. The -inferior officers, selected from the most respectable yeomanry, are -placed under the vigilant inspection of a superior, whose responsibility -secures his attention, and who is not liable to be biassed by any -influence in the duties of his office. The great success that has -attended the adoption of this plan, under all the disadvantages of the -present road laws, is an earnest of what might result from its being -established on a comprehensive scale, under the authority of Parliament. - -Although no measures have yet been taken for establishing any systematic -plan for the management of roads, it is gratifying to observe the spirit -of improvement which is extending itself over the country. This is -manifest in various ways. The plan of converting the pavements of -streets into stoned roads, was introduced into the Bristol district -about six years ago; and it may reasonably be expected, that pavements -will very soon be nearly superseded by the more convenient, safe, and -economical substitute of stoned roads. Of the superior convenience of -roads, there can be no question; and all the minor objections which have -been started can be so easily obviated, that a very little reflection -will be sufficient for any candid mind. The inhabitants of towns are -generally apprehensive that roads will be less commodious for foot -passengers than pavements: but (if proper care be bestowed on cleaning -and watering) a road made of broken stone will be found more eligible -than such pavements as those of London. In some towns, where the -principal streets are turnpike roads, the commissioners have caused them -to be made of materials broken very small, which, when skilfully laid, -form a smooth, firm surface. - -The great difference between the cost of a road, and even the worst -London pavement, would enable the city to bestow such care on the -cleanliness of the carriage ways, as would allow the inhabitants to -enjoy all the advantages of smooth road, with even increased comfort to -the foot passenger. - - -TO THE GENERAL TREASURER, THE TREASURERS OF DIVISIONS, AND THE OTHER -COMMISSIONERS FOR THE CARE OF THE TURNPIKE ROADS IN THE BRISTOL -DISTRICT, TO WHOSE FIRMNESS AND PATRIOTIC ZEAL IN THE DISCHARGE OF THEIR -DUTY, THE KINGDOM IS INDEBTED FOR THE FIRST EXAMPLE OF THE PRACTICE OF A -NEW AND EFFECTUAL SYSTEM OF IMPROVEMENT IN THE REPAIR OF THE ROADS, AND -IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE FUNDS UNDER THEIR CARE; =THESE REMARKS= ARE -MOST RESPECTFULLY DEDICATED, AS A TESTIMONY OF THE ESTEEM AND GRATITUDE -OF THEIR - - OBLIGED AND OBEDIENT SERVANT, - - =THE AUTHOR=. - - - - - INTRODUCTION. - - -The present very defective state of the Turnpike Roads and Highways in -the United Kingdom, and the continual and apparently unlimited increase -of the Toll Duties, are the considerations, which have given rise to the -publication of the following remarks. - -Of the value of the information contained in them, the intelligent -reader will be the most competent judge; the author can only venture to -assure him, that the few facts brought forward in the course of the work -have been most carefully authenticated; that the opinions advanced are -the result of much thought, and patient investigation; that whatever may -appear theoretical, has, for the most part, been already reduced to -practice; and that where practice has been wanting, a long experience of -the evils arising from the present system, and not the mere love of -innovation, has been the motive for the suggestion of the remedies -proposed. - -These, however, the author gladly submits to the good sense and candour -of the public; only requesting, in the words of a celebrated writer, -that whoever favors him with a perusal, will not judge by a few hours -reading of the labours of nearly thirty years. - -In the following chapters, the subject of Roads will be considered under -three principal heads: - -THE MODE OF MAKING ROADS; - -THE COMMISSIONERS, AND OFFICERS EMPLOYED UNDER THEM, FOR THIS SERVICE, - -and - -THE CARE OF THE FINANCES: - -Which has appeared to the Author the most clear and comprehensive -arrangement. - - - - - _REMARKS ON ROADS._ - - - - - PART FIRST. - _THE MODE OF MAKING ROADS._ - - -The modes of making and repairing Roads are so various in the different -parts of the kingdom, that it would be an endless task to attempt a -particular account of each. It may, however, be possible to give a -general idea of them, according to the materials produced in each part -of the country. - -In the neighbourhood of London, the roads are formed of gravel; in Essex -and Sussex, they are formed of flint; in Wilts, Somerset, and Glocester, -limestone is principally used; in the North of England, and in Scotland, -whinstone is the principal material; and in Shropshire and -Staffordshire, large pebbles mixed with sand. - -Excellent roads may be made with any of these materials. - -The gravel of which the roads round London are formed is the worst; -because it is mixed with a large portion of clay, and because the -component parts of gravel are round, and want the angular points of -contact, by which broken stone unites, and forms a solid body; the loose -state of the roads near London, is a consequence of this quality in the -material, and of the entire neglect, or ignorance of the method of -amending it. - -A more careful examination of facts connected with the roads round -London, has discovered several other causes, from whence proceeds the -defective state of these roads. The greatest appears to be, the division -of the roads into so many small Trusts, which precludes the possibility -of any extended plan of operations, for the benefit of the whole. Before -any one road round London can be properly reformed, and all wasteful -expenditure restrained, a comprehensive view of the local situation of -the whole district will be requisite. - -Another great impediment to improvement, arises from the laws and -regulations, which prevent a supply of good road materials, of several -kinds, being brought to London by water, and landed in different places, -convenient for the roads. Were these restrictions removed, as far as -concerns stone, flint, or any ballast for road-making, London is so -favorably situated for water carriage by the river, and by the canals -connected with it, that a supply, equal to the wants of all the roads in -the vicinity of London, might be obtained at a reasonable rate, and of -good quality, so as to render the use of the bad gravel round the -metropolis no longer necessary.[1] But this measure, to be performed in -an economical, and efficient manner, must be done upon an extended -scale; it must become one interest, directed by one select body of men -of weight, ability, and character. - -Footnote 1: - - This must not be understood as conveying an opinion, that a good road - may not be constructed with the London gravel, properly prepared and - applied. The road at Reading, in Berkshire, has lately been made - perfectly smooth, solid, and level, with a gravel inferior to that of - London, and at less than it formerly cost. Carriages make no - impression on this road, and it has remained good in all changes of - weather. Nevertheless, a means having been discovered, by diligent - enquiry, for importing flints, from a distance, the Reading road will, - in future, be repaired with flint, at half the expence required to - prepare the gravel of the neighbourhood. - -A road near London may be made as smooth, solid, and easy for cattle to -draw carriages over, as the road near Bristol; and the London road _so -made_ will last longer, and consequently be less expensive than the -Bristol road, because the materials which may be obtained are more -durable, and may be procured at less expence. - -Flint makes an excellent road, if due attention be paid to the size; but -from want of that attention, many of the flint roads are rough, loose, -and expensive. - -Limestone, when properly prepared and applied, makes a smooth, solid -road, and becomes consolidated sooner than any other material; but from -its nature is not the most lasting. - -Whinstone is the most durable of all materials; and wherever it is well -and judiciously applied, the roads are comparatively good and cheap. - -The pebbles of Shropshire and Staffordshire, are of a hard substance, -and only require a prudent application to be made good road materials. - -On the other hand, the Scottish roads, made of the very best materials, -which are abundant and cheap in every part of that country, are the most -loose, rough, and expensive roads in the United Kingdom, owing to the -unskilful use of the material. - -The _formation_ of roads is defective in most parts of the country; in -particular the roads round London, are made high in the middle, in the -form of a roof, by which means a carriage goes upon a dangerous slope, -unless kept on the very centre of the road. - -These roads are repaired by throwing a large quantity of unprepared -gravel in the middle, and trusting that, by its never consolidating, it -will in due time move towards the sides. - -When a road has been originally well made, it will be easily repaired. -Such a road can never become rough, or loose; though it will gradually -wear thin and weak, in proportion to the use to which it is exposed; the -amendment will then be made, by the addition of a quantity of materials -prepared as at first. As there will be no expense on such road, between -the first making and each subsequent repair, except the necessary -attention to the water-ways, and to accidental injuries, the funds will -be no longer burdened with the unceasing expenditure, at present -experienced, from continual efforts at repairing, without amendment of -the roads. - -There cannot be a doubt, that all the roads in the kingdom may be made -smooth and solid, in an equal degree, and to continue so at all seasons -of the year. Their durability will of course depend on the strength of -the materials of which they may be composed, but they will all be good -while they last, and the only question that can arise respecting the -kind of materials, is one of time and expence, but never of the -immediate condition of the roads. - -The anxious provisions of the Legislature for _preservation_ of the -roads have unfortunately taken precedence of measures for making roads -fit to be travelled upon, or worth the care of being preserved. Will it -be deemed presumptuous to propose, that some regulations may be adopted, -for encouraging and promoting a better system of making roads, by -eliciting the exertion of science, and by creating a set of officers of -skill, and reputation, to superintend this most essential branch of -domestic economy? - -When roads are properly made, very few regulations are necessary for -their preservation. It is certainly useful to make effectual provision -for keeping clear the watercourses, for removing nuisances, and for the -pruning of trees and hedges; for these purposes ample powers should be -given to Commissioners; but the advantage of many existing regulations -respecting wheeled carriages may very well be questioned. There can be -no doubt that many of those regulations are oppressive to commerce and -agriculture, by compelling an inconvenient construction of carriages.[2] -The author has never observed any great difference of effect, on a _well -made road_, by narrow or broad wheels; either of them will pass over a -smooth, solid road, without leaving any visible impression: on rough, -loose roads, the effect will certainly be different; but whether a loose -and rough road can be amended by dragging an unwieldy carriage over it, -or whether, if it were possible to amend roads by such means, it can be -deemed the most economical for the nation at large, can hardly be -subject of doubt.[3] - -Footnote 2: - - The increase of the breadth of the wheels, though in a greater - proportion than that of the weights, is by no means a compensation for - it; because the whole breadth in many instances, from the inequality - of the ground, or the wheels, will not be brought to bear whenever it - can, the first impression must be made by the nails, where they are - prominent, perhaps by a single nail; or the bearing may happen upon - single pieces of materials, or upon the edges of materials, incapable - of supporting the weights. _See Enquiry into the State of the Public - Roads, by the Rev._ HENRY HOMER, _A. M. Rector of Birdlingbury, - Warwickshire. Published in 1767, Page 66._ - - It must be observed, that these remarks of Mr. Homer, and of every - other writer on the subject of roads, are only applicable to such as - are loose, rough, and uneven; and that no one seems to have - contemplated the idea of a road being made at once strong, smooth, and - solid.—AUTHOR. - -Footnote 3: - - Broad-wheeled carriages are found to be so unadapted to the purposes - of husbandry, the number of horses requisite for their draught so - great, and the beneficial effects of them to the road so questionable, - that neither the encouragements on the one hand, nor the - discouragements on the other, have been sufficient to bring them into - general use. - - HOMER’S ENQUIRY, Page 25. - -It must however be admitted, that the wear of roads is proportioned to -the weight and velocity of carriages running upon a given breadth of the -tire of the wheels, and therefore, it is of consequence that some -regulations should be adopted. The best regulations, as regard the -breadth of the tire of wheels, will be found in several Acts of the -Session of Parliament 1816, where Carts are required to have wheels of a -cylindrical form five inches broad; and Waggon Wheels of the same form -six inches broad, with an equal upright bearing. The weights will be -best and most easily regulated by the number of horses, or other cattle, -drawing the carriages: and this, as a regulation of economy, may be -made, by the tolls at present payable on the cattle being levied in a -larger ratio as the number increases. - -Waggons and carts with wheels of a cylindrical form and upright bearing, -running on a breadth of tire of five and six inches, cannot injure a -well made road, at the slow pace with which such carriages travel; at -least, in any proportion beyond the toll they pay. On the contrary, it -is certain, that Stage Coaches, with their present system of loading, -and velocity of travelling upon very narrow wheels, damage the roads in -a much greater proportion than the compensation derived from the toll. - -Every wheel, propelled by a force applied to its centre of motion, as -the axis of a carriage wheel, is disposed by its specific gravity, to be -dragged forwards, instead of turning round; and the rotative motion is -occasioned by the resistance presented by the surface over which it -passes; yet this resistance does not entirely prevent dragging; for -every wheel running upon a road drags in some degree. This degree will -be proportioned to the weight of the carriage, and the velocity of the -wheel upon its axis, and will be opposed by the breadth of the tire -coming in contact with the road. - -Stage Coaches, therefore, carrying heavy weights, moving with great -velocity, and presenting to the road a narrow tire of wheel, must of -necessity drag in a greater degree than any other carriage, as combining -in themselves every cause by which dragging is produced.[4] - -Footnote 4: - - Above fifty Stage Coach journies are made daily between BRISTOL and - BATH: the Author’s observation leads him to the conclusion, that the - toll-duty paid by them, does not indemnify the funds for the wearing - of the road. - -When the Legislature shall have provided the means of putting all the -roads in the United Kingdom into the best and fittest state for the -accommodation of the agriculture and commerce of the country, they will -naturally consider of the most proper modes of protecting them from -injury, or for indemnifying the funds for the effects of use which are -unavoidable, by imposing toll duties in a just and equitable proportion -on the carriages occasioning such injury. - - - - - PART SECOND. - _COMMISSIONERS AND OFFICERS EMPLOYED UNDER THEM._ - - -The care of the Turnpike Roads has been committed by Parliament, into -the hands of Commissioners, selected from that class of society, most -capable of executing the duties of superintendance, and from their -station most likely to perform the duty with fidelity; in this respect -the expectations of the public has not been disappointed; and there can -be but one opinion, upon the obligations the country owes to this very -respectable part of the community. Perhaps the only useful regulation -wanted, in respect to Commissioners, would be to confine the -qualification of Trustees to _landed_ property. - -The superintending and controuling power, so wisely placed by Parliament -in the Commissioners, has not, however, been sufficient to secure all -the objects of the Legislature. A scientific, laborious, executive power -is wanting; and no means having been thought of for this part of the -service, it has been altogether neglected, or at best very unprofitably -supplied by a set of Surveyors, altogether ignorant of the duties of the -office they were called upon to fill.[5] - -Footnote 5: - - The general laws relating to highways seem sufficiently calculated to - answer the purpose intended by them, if Overseers were qualified with - a sufficient degree of judgment to execute them properly, and of - industry and spirit to do it effectually. - - HOMER’S ENQUIRY, Page 18. - -General superintendance and gratuitous services, such as the law -contemplated to receive from the Commissioners of Turnpikes, may be -obtained, and have been faithfully and conscientiously given by the -Commissioners; but that constant and laborious attention, requisite to -superintend the executive duties of a turnpike trust, cannot reasonably -be expected from gentlemen engaged in other pursuits. Were they to -undertake the task, it must be subject to all the interruptions of their -private affairs, or other occupations; and this alone would render their -services nugatory. Some instances of individual zeal and exertion, on -the part of Commissioners, in particular parts of the country, have -served to show what benefit might be derived from providing each county -with an executive officer, whose sole attention should be given to the -business; whose services should be amply remunerated, and of whom the -Commissioners might _of right_ demand an account of the manner in which -their orders were carried into execution; who should examine and audit -the accounts of the Sub-surveyors; compare them with the work performed, -and certify them, if approved, to the Treasurers. - -In a trust of any extent, say about 150 miles of road, the time of such -an officer would be very fully employed. He must direct the execution of -the repairs, and alterations of the road, when ordered by the -Commissioners; and he must controul the contracts, and other agreements -entered into by the Sub-surveyors, so as to prevent unnecessary expence; -he must examine all work performed, to see that it is corresponding with -contracts, and generally keep a vigilant superintendance over the -persons employed under him. Accounts of all expences incurred should -every second week be delivered by the Sub-surveyors into his office in -duplicate; after examination, one copy to remain in the office, the -other certified, to be sent to the Treasurer, upon which payment may -follow. - -Much must depend on the selection of the officer to whom this charge is -committed; he must have a considerable share of general information -respecting country business; the subject of road-making ought to have -been well considered by him; his station in society should be such, as -to secure to him the support and confidence of the Commissioners, while -it commands the obedience and deference of the subordinate officers. - -The success of the exertions of individual Commissioners, in particular -parts of the country first suggested the opinion, that a better system -of road-making might be adopted, and the examples of a better practice -extended to all parts of the country; but the benefit can never be -rendered thus general, unless accompanied by the zeal and activity that -produced it; and this can only be supplied by officers, whose sole duty -it shall be, and who will be accountable to the Commissioners under -whose orders they act for the execution of the trust confided to them. -Gratuitous services are ever temporary and local, they are dependant on -the residence, and life of the party; and have always disappointed -expectation. Skill and executive labour must be adequately paid for, if -expected to be constantly and usefully exerted; and if so exerted, the -price is no consideration when compared with the advantage to the -public. - -From the want of such an officer, the orders of the Commissioners, after -having been maturely considered, and wisely given, have fallen, for -execution into the hands of Surveyors, selected not unfrequently from -the lowest class of the community, who have proceeded without plan or -method. The consequence is seen in every corner of the country; want of -science in the Surveyor has gone hand in hand with improvident -expenditure, to the injury of the roads, and the derangement of the -finances. A vigilant and unremitting superintendance is wanting to -ensure an economical and effectual execution. - -Whether it may not be useful to empower Commissioners in the small -Trusts into which the roads of England are unfortunately divided, to -unite together in sufficient number to enable them to provide a -respectable and efficient executive officer, and for other general -purposes of improvement, is humbly submitted to the wisdom of -Parliament. - -The effect of an active and efficient controul over the Sub-surveyors, -in the executive part of their duties; and in rescuing the funds from -mis-application and depredation, is exemplified in the measures wisely -entered into by the Commissioners for the care of the turnpike roads in -the BRISTOL DISTRICT, the success of which has amply justified their -adoption, the roads having been entirely reformed and put into the best -possible state for use, at an expence considerably within the revenue of -the Trust. This improved state of the finances has enabled the -Commissioners to effect several great permanent improvements, without -forgetting the necessary provision for liquidation of the debt, which -had accumulated during former years. - - - - - PART THIRD. - _CARE OF THE FINANCES._ - - -The funds placed by the Legislature at the disposal of the Commissioners -for the care of turnpike roads are very considerable, and might be -supposed with proper management, fully equal to the object; they arise -principally from toll duties, and a proportion of statute labour. - -As long as it shall be necessary to raise large sums for the maintenance -of roads, the present means must continue; toll duties, although liable -to many objections, are so _immediately_, and _effectually_ productive, -that little hope can be entertained of the possibility of their being -reduced, until a continuance of a better system shall have materially -amended the roads, and reduced the expence, so as to leave means for -extinguishing the heavy debt owing by the country for this branch of the -public service. - -Statute labour, in kind, was decreed by Parliament at a time, when no -better means could be devised: when a circulating medium was deficient, -and when a fair quantum of labour could not, in many parts of the -country, be obtained for money. - -Personal labour for a public service can never be made profitable, or -fairly productive; at the same time, it is liable to the great -objections of being made an instrument of partiality and oppression -under the direction of a class of men with whom such a power should -never be lodged, and over whom, in this instance, no adequate controul -can be placed. - -The causes, which operated to induce Parliament to resort to personal -service, having ceased, it will be found expedient to commute statute -labour for a moderate assessment in money. This has been effected with -great advantage in Scotland, by most, if not all of the local and county -Acts for turnpike roads.[6] - -Footnote 6: - - It is impossible not to see that statute labour is a remnant of - personal service; a gentleman might as well argue at the present day, - that rents paid in kind, are more easy and equitable than monied - rents, as to defend the custom of mending highways by compulsory - labour. - - EDGEWORTH’S ESSAY ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF - ROADS AND CARRIAGES, p. 46. - -The sum of money annually raised in the kingdom for roads is very great, -and would be found, if carefully examined into, much beyond the general -belief. Government have procured information, as to the sum raised -annually for _parish_ roads (generally denominated highways) but they -have not yet enquired into the amount of the much greater sum raised for -the maintenance of the _turnpike_ roads, nor into the amount of the debt -incurred for the same purpose. - -These funds, considerable as they are, continue to be expended, -_nominally_, under the direction of Commissioners, but _effectually_ and -_practically_ under the Surveyors, over whom the Commissioners have very -uncertain means of useful controul; and there is no doubt, that much -abuse exists in the expenditure, partly from ignorance, but much more -from peculation and patronage very much misplaced. - -Under such circumstances the protection of the funds would be promoted -by the inspection and controul of a superior officer; and finally it -might be desirable, that a report from each trust should be made to -Parliament of the receipt and expenditure for the year. - -That the funds provided by Parliament for the roads are either -insufficient for the object, or that they are improvidently expended, is -best proved by the numerous applications to Parliament in every Session, -for extension of powers and increase of tolls; setting forth that -without such aid the debts cannot be paid, nor the roads kept in repair. -In the Session of Parliament 1815, thirty-four such petitions were -presented; and in the Session of 1816, thirty-two; all which bills were -passed _as a matter of course_; the petitioners being only required to -prove the _actual necessity_ to the Committee, but no enquiry seems to -have been made as to the _cause_ of that necessity. - -An efficient, uniform and constant controul of the expenditure of road -funds, and an annual report of the result to Parliament would enable the -House of Commons to form a judgment, whether the deficiency proceeded -from inadequacy of the means, or from improvident expenditure; and -thereby that Honourable House would be enabled to use means for -preventing the growing amount of debt, which the petitions presented -each Sessions sufficiently shew to be increasing to an alarming degree; -and which, being incurred under the authority of Parliament, must -ultimately become a claim upon the justice of the country. - -Upon consideration of this important subject it appears, that a review -of the turnpike laws has become indispensable, for the purpose of -altering and amending obsolete, useless, and oppressive regulations; and -for substituting others more consonant with the present state of -society. This review is required by experience of the inadequacy of the -present system, to the great object of forming the best and easiest -communications through every part of the country, with a due regard to -economy; and for preventing the increase of a debt, which has been -allowed, _in silence_, to accumulate to an extent, that will hardly be -credited when properly and accurately ascertained. - -Many and important improvements have originated from the good sense and -zeal of individual Commissioners, or from particular district meetings, -the good effects of which have been confined to the place of origin; -such improvements have also ceased to operate, on the death or removal -of their authors, and have been thereby finally lost, for want of a -general superintendance, which would have an interest in the improvement -of the whole. - -The defective state of the roads, independent of the unnecessary -expence, is oppressive on agriculture, commerce, and manufactures, by -the increase of the price of transport, by waste of the labour of -cattle, and wear of carriages, as well as by causing much delay of time. - -Under an efficient and responsible executive department, established and -directed by the wisdom of Parliament, this subject would be brought -within the means of examination and regulation; and many local -improvements, which have been confined to small districts, would be -brought forward, and communicated generally for the public benefit.[7] - -Footnote 7: - - Since this Essay was written, I have visited England, and have found, - on a journey of many hundred miles, scarcely twenty miles of well-made - road. In many parts of the country, and especially round London, the - roads are in a shameful condition. This must strike the public; and - sooner or later the good sense of the English nation will feel the - necessity of adopting some means of improvement. - - EDGEWORTH’S ESSAY, Preface, p. 7. - - In Ireland, the cross roads are generally better than the great roads, - and comparing all the roads in that country with the roads in England, - the shameful inferiority of the latter would evidently appear. - - EDGEWORTH’S ESSAY, p. 46. - - -The Author has abstained from any notice of the parish roads; although -their condition and the state of their funds, are more deplorable than -that of the turnpike roads. The Legislative enactments for their -maintenance and repair are so inadequate to the object, that they may be -considered as being placed almost out of the protection of the law. - -There can be no apparent good reason, why, such a distinction should be -made between the two description of roads; and their being both placed -under the care of the Commissioners, with the benefit of the scientific -direction of a General Surveyor, would ensure an equal improvement of -the parish roads. - - - _The foregoing Remarks on Roads cannot be better concluded than by the - following Extract from the Report of the Committee of the House of - Commons in 1811._ - -“The many important advantages to be derived from amending the highways -and turnpike roads of the kingdom need hardly be dwelt upon. Every -individual in it would thereby find his comforts materially increased, -and his interest greatly promoted. By the improvement of our roads, -every branch of our agricultural, commercial, and manufacturing industry -would be materially benefited. Every article brought to market would be -diminished in price; the number of horses would be so much reduced, that -by these, and other retrenchments, the expence of FIVE MILLIONS would be -annually saved to the public. The expence of repairing roads, and the -wear and tear of carriages and horses, would be essentially diminished; -and thousands of acres, the produce of which is now wasted in feeding -unnecessary horses, would be devoted to the production of food for man. -In short, the public and private advantages, which would result from -effecting that great object, the improvement of our highways and -turnpike roads, are incalculable; though from their being spread over a -wide surface, and available in various ways, such advantages will not be -so apparent as those derived from other sources of improvement, of a -more restricted and less general nature.” - - - - - Appendix. - - - - - _Extracts from Observations on the Highways of the Kingdom, by_ JOHN - LOUDON MᶜADAM, _presented to a Committee of the House of Commons, and - printed by order of the House, 14th June 1811_. - - -“In all the Reports of Committees of the House of Commons on the subject -of Roads, they seem to have had principally in view the construction of -wheeled carriages, the weights they were to draw, and the breadth and -form of their wheels; the nature of the roads on which these carriages -were to travel has not been so well attended to.” - -“The observations I have made in a period of twenty-six years on the -roads of the kingdom, in which time I have travelled over the greater -number in England and Scotland, and the opportunities I have had of -making comparisons on the different materials and the modes of their -application, have led me to form the following conclusions.” - -“1st. That the present bad condition of the roads of the kingdom is -owing to the injudicious application of the materials with which they -are repaired, and to the defective form of the roads.” - -“2nd. That the introduction of a better system of making the _surface_ -of roads, and the application of scientific principles, which has -hitherto never been thought of, would remedy the evil.” - -“In illustration of these positions, I beg to observe, that the object -to be attained in a good road, as far as regards the surface, is to have -it smooth, solid, and so flat as that a carriage may stand upright; -these objects are not attained by the present system, because no -scientific principles are applied; but it is presumed they are perfectly -attainable in all parts of the country.” - -“Stone is to be procured in some form in almost every part of the -kingdom, and a road made of small broken stone to the depth of ten -inches, will be smooth, solid and durable.” - -“The materials of which the present roads are composed, are not worn -out; but are displaced by the action of the wheels of carriages upon -stones of too large a size: the wheel does not _pass over_ the materials -of which the road is formed, but is constantly, almost at every step, -encountering an obstacle which must either give way and be removed, or -the carriage must be lifted by the force of the cattle so as to surmount -it; in either case the road is injured, and the carriage impeded, and -the injury and impediment will be great in the exact proportion to the -number and size of the obstacles.” - -“The size of stones for a road has been described in contracts in -several different ways, sometimes as the size of a hen’s egg, sometimes -at half a pound weight. These descriptions are very vague, the first -being an indefinite size, and the latter depending on the density of the -stone used, and _neither_ being attended to in the execution. The size -of stone used on a road must be in due proportion to the space occupied -by a wheel of ordinary dimensions on a smooth level surface, this point -of contact will be found to be, longitudinally about an inch, and every -piece of stone put into a road, which exceeds an inch in any of its -dimensions, is mischievous.” - -“The roads in Scotland are worse than those in England, although, -materials are more abundant, of better quality, and labour at _least_ as -cheap, and the toll duties are nearly double; this is because -road-making, that is the surface, is even worse understood in Scotland -than in England. By a late discussion in Parliament on the subject of -Mail Coaches paying toll, it was universally allowed that the roads in -Scotland were in a deplorable state, and in their circumstances, -bankrupt.” - - * * * * * - -NOTE.—_It is understood, that the Postmaster-General was obliged to give -up the mail-coach from Glasgow to Ayr, on the road towards Ireland, on -account of the expence of tolls, and the bad condition of the road; -there being ten turnpike gates on thirty-four miles of road._ - - -During nearly five years that the writer has given his whole attention -to the improvement of the Turnpike Roads, experience having confirmed -his ideas on the subject, no endeavours have been spared, to extend the -benefits which have already resulted to the Bristol district, over the -whole country. The very limited means possessed by any individual for -influencing this important branch of domestic economy, has occasioned -frequent attempts to convey instructions for road-making in writing. -This method has never been entirely successful; it being impossible to -acquire a mechanical art without actual practice; or to obtain any just -ideas of it, beyond the first principles, from books. - -These principles are, that a road ought to be considered as an -artificial flooring forming a strong, smooth, solid surface, at once -capable of carrying great weight, and over which carriages may pass -without meeting any impediment. - - - - - _Directions for Repair of an old Road, being the substance of a -Communication made to a Committee of the Honourable House of Commons in_ - 1811, _and published with the Report by Order of the House, with -additions and alterations, deduced from actual practice during the last - three years._ - - - _1st February, 1819._ - -No addition of materials is to be brought upon a road, unless in any -part of it be found that there is not a quantity of clean stone equal to -ten inches in thickness. - -The stone already in the road is to be loosened up and broken, so as no -piece shall exceed six ounces in weight. - -The road is then to be laid as flat as possible, a rise of three inches -from the centre to the side is sufficient for a road thirty feet wide. - -The stones when loosened in the road are to be gathered off by means of -a strong heavy rake, with teeth two and a half inches in length, to the -side of the road, and there broken, and on no account are stones to be -broken _on_ the road. - -When the great stones have been removed, and none left in the road -exceeding six ounces, the road is to be put in shape and a rake employed -to smooth the surface, which will at the same time bring to the surface -the remaining stone, and will allow the dirt to go down. - -When the road is so prepared, the stone that has been broken by the side -of the road is then to be carefully spread on it—this is rather a nice -operation, and the future quality of the road will greatly depend on the -manner in which it is performed. The stone must not be laid on in -shovels full, but scattered over the surface, one shovel full following -another and spreading over a considerable space. - -Only a small space of road should be lifted at once; five men in a gang -should be set to lift it _all across_: two men should continue to pick -up and rake off the large stones and to form the road for receiving the -broken stone, the other three should break stones—the broken stone to be -laid on as soon as the piece of road is prepared to receive it, and then -break up another piece; two or three yards at one lift is enough. - -The proportioning the work among the five men must of course be -regulated by the nature of the road; when there are many very large -stones, the three breakers may not be able to keep pace with the two men -employed in lifting and forming, and when there are few large stones the -contrary may be the case; of all this the Surveyor must judge and -direct. - -But while it is recommended to lift and relay roads which have been made -with large stone, or with large stone mixed with clay, chalk or other -mischievous materials, there are many cases in which it would be highly -unprofitable to lift and relay a road, even if the materials should have -been originally too large. - -The road between Cirencester and Bath is made of stone too large in -size, but it is of so friable a nature that in lifting it becomes sand; -in this case I recommended cutting down the high places, keeping the -surface smooth and gradually wearing out the materials now in the road, -and then replacing them with some stone of a better quality properly -prepared. - -In like manner a part of the road in the Bath district is made of -freestone which it would be unprofitable to lift. - -At Egham in Surrey, it was necessary to remove the whole road to -separate the small portion of valuable materials from the mass of soft -matter of which it was principally composed which was removed at -considerable expence, before a road could be again made upon the site. - -Other cases of several kinds have occurred where a different method must -be adopted, but which it is impossible to specify, and must be met by -the practical skill of the Officer whose duty it may be to superintend -the repair of a road, and who must constantly recur to general -principles. These principles are uniform, however much circumstances may -differ, and they must form the guide by which his judgment must be -always directed. - -When additional stone is wanted on a road that has consolidated by use, -the old hardened surface of the road is to be loosened with a pick, in -order to make the fresh materials unite with the old. - -Carriages, whatever be the construction of their wheels, will make ruts -in a new-made road until it consolidates, however well the materials may -be prepared, or however judiciously applied; therefore a careful person -must attend for some time after the road is opened for use, to rake in -the track made by wheels. - -The only proper method of breaking stones, both for effect and economy, -is by persons _sitting_; the stones are to be placed in small heaps, and -women, boys, or old men past hard labour, must sit down with small -hammers and break them, so as none shall exceed six ounces in weight. - -_The Tools to be used are,—_ - -Strong picks, but short from the handle to the point, for lifting the -road. - -Small hammers of about one pound weight in the head, the face the size -of a new shilling, well steeled, with a short handle. - -Rakes with wooden heads, ten inches in length, and iron teeth about two -and a half inches in length, very strong for raking out the large stones -when the road is broken up, and for keeping the road smooth after being -relaid, and while it is consolidating. - -Very light broad-mouthed shovels, to spread the broken stone and to form -the road. - -Every road is to be made of broken stone without mixture of earth, clay, -chalk, or any other matter that will imbibe water, and be affected with -frost; nothing is to be laid on the clean stone on pretence of -_binding_; broken stone will combine by its own angles into a smooth -solid surface that cannot be affected by vicissitudes of weather, or -displaced by the action of wheels, which will pass over it without a -jolt, and consequently without injury. - - - - - PRICES. - - -The price of lifting a rough road, breaking the stones, forming the -road, smoothing the surface, cleaning out the watercourses, and -replacing the stone, leaving the road in a finished state, has been -found in practice to be from one penny to two-pence per superficial -yard, lifted four inches deep; the variation of price depends on the -greater or lesser quantity of stone to be broken. - -At two-pence per yard, a road of six yards wide will cost, therefore, -one shilling per running yard, or 88l. per mile. - -Any rough road may be rendered smooth and solid at this price, unless it -be weak and require an addition of stone, or require some very material -alteration of shape. - -Breaking stone has been reduced in price by the use of more proper -hammers, and the sitting posture. - -The Commissioners at Bristol used to pay fifteen pence per ton for -limestone from Durdham Down, for the use of their roads, and broken to a -size above twenty ounces.—Stone is now procured from the same place, -broken so as none exceed six ounces for ten-pence per ton! and the -workmen are very desirous of contracts at that rate, because the heavy -work is done by the men, the light work with small hammers by the wives -and children, so that whole families are employed. - -In Sussex, the proportion is greater between former and present prices; -the breaking of flint cost at one time two shillings per ton, and is now -done, by introducing a better method and fitter tools at one shilling -per ton. - -By a more judicious preparation and application of materials the -quantity of stone consumed in roads is decreased, by which a great -saving of expence is made, and with this great advantage, that the -saving is in horse labour of cartage, while the labour price is given to -men, and in such a manner as includes boys from the age of ten upwards, -women and old men past the age of being able to labour hard. The -proportion of men and horse labour in the Bristol district, under the -former management, was - - One-fourth to men’s labour, - Three-fourths to horse labour. - -Under a better system of management the proportion has been exactly -reversed: during half a year that an exact account was kept, there was -paid. - - For men’s, women and children’s labour, £3088. - For horses’ labour 1035. - -This immense advantage is presented in every part of the country, as -roads are confined to no particular place, and are universally in want -of repair: ample funds are already provided for every useful and proper -purpose, although at present misapplied in almost every part of the -kingdom, while the labourers are in want of that employment which it -ought to afford them. - - - - - TO THE RIGHT HONOURABLE - THE PRESIDENT, - AND - THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE. - - -Having communicated to your Honourable Board, some observations on -making and repairing roads, in February, 1819, I beg leave to add the -following, which have arisen from increased experience on the subject, -and also from a desire of calling your attention to the effects of the -late severe winter on the roads of the country, and the confirmation -afforded to the opinions I have endeavoured to introduce on the -construction of roads. - -During the late winter, and particularly in the month of January, 1820, -when the frost was succeeded by a sudden thaw, accompanied by the -melting of snow, the roads of the kingdom broke up in a very alarming -manner, and to an extent that created great loss and inconvenience by -the interruption of communication, and the delay of the mails, and also -occasioned a very heavy extra expenditure by the Post-office. - -The obvious cause of this defect of the roads, was the admission of -water from the loose and unskilful method of their construction. -Previous to the severe frost, the roads were filled with water, which -had penetrated through the ill-prepared and unskilfully laid materials: -this caused an immediate expansion of the whole mass during the frost, -and upon a sudden thaw, the roads became quite loose, and the wheels of -carriages penetrated to the original soil, which was also saturated with -water, from the open state of the road. By this means, many roads became -altogether impassable, while the whole were rendered deep and -inconvenient to be travelled upon. - -In particular, it was observed, that _all_ the roads of which chalk was -a component part, became, generally, impassable; and even, that the -roads made over chalk soils gave way in most places. This evidently -proceeded from the absorbent quality of chalk, which renders it so -tenacious of water, that I consider its use to be one of the most -dangerous errors in road making. I was induced on former occasions to -recommend particular care in making roads over chalk soils, and to -advise a discontinuance of the practice of mixing chalk, clay, or any -other matter that holds water, with the materials of a road. The -experience of last winter has confirmed this opinion, and has shewn the -ruinous effects of the former method. - -Of all the roads which have been thoroughly re-made, according to the -directions which I had the honour to submit to your Honourable Board -last spring, not one has given way, nor has any delay taken place -through the severity of the late season. - -As every winter has, in some degree, presented such inconveniences, and -as it has been observed that very severe winters occur in England every -six or seven years, it is of great consequence to consider of the means -of constructing the roads of the kingdom in such a manner as shall -prevent their being in future affected by any change of weather or -season. - -The roads can never be rendered thus perfectly secure, until the -following principles be fully understood, admitted, and acted upon: -namely, that it is the native soil which really supports the weight of -traffic: that while it is preserved in a dry state, it will carry any -weight without sinking, and that it does in fact carry the road and the -carriages also; that this native soil must previously be made quite dry, -and a covering impenetrable to rain, must then be placed over it, to -preserve it in that dry state; that the thickness of a road should only -be regulated by the quantity of material necessary to form such -impervious covering, and never by any reference to its _own_ power of -carrying weight. - -The erroneous opinion so long acted upon, and so tenaciously adhered to, -that by placing a large quantity of stone under the roads, a remedy will -be found for the sinking into wet clay, or other soft soils, or in other -words, that a road may be made sufficiently strong, _artificially_, to -carry heavy carriages, though the sub-soil be in a wet state, and by -such means to avert the inconveniences of the natural soil receiving -water from rain, or other causes, has produced most of the defects of -the roads of Great Britain. - -At one time I had formed the opinion that this practice was only a -useless expence, but experience has convinced me that it is likewise -positively injurious. - -It is well known to every skilful and observant road-maker, that if -strata of stone of various sizes be placed as a road, the largest stones -will constantly work up by the shaking and pressure of the traffic, and -that the only mode of keeping the stones of a road from motion, is to -use materials of a uniform size from the bottom. In roads made upon -large stones as a foundation, the perpetual motion, or change of the -position of the materials, keeps open many apertures through which the -water passes. - -It has also been found, that roads placed upon a hard bottom, wear away -more quickly than those which are placed upon a soft soil. This has been -apparent upon roads where motives of economy, or other causes, have -prevented the road being lifted to the bottom at once; the wear has -always been found to diminish, as soon as it was possible to remove the -hard foundation. It is a known fact, that a road lasts much longer over -a morass than when made over rock. The evidence produced before the -Committee of the House of Commons, shewed the comparison on the road -between Bristol and Bridgwater, to be as five to seven in favour of the -wearing on the morass, where the road is laid on the naked surface of -the soil, against a part of the same road made over rocky ground. - -The practice common in England, and universal in Scotland, on the -formation of a new road, is, to dig a trench below the surface of the -ground adjoining, and in this trench to deposit a quantity of large -stones; after this, a second quantity of stone, broken smaller, -generally to about seven or eight pounds weight; these previous beds of -stone are called the bottoming of the road, and are of various -thickness, according to the caprice of the maker, and generally in -proportion to the sum of money placed at his disposal. On some new -roads, made in Scotland, in the summer of 1819, the thickness exceeded -three feet. - -That which is properly called the road, is then placed on the bottoming, -by putting large quantities of broken stone or gravel, generally a foot -or eighteen inches thick, at once upon it. - -Were the materials of which the road itself is composed, properly -selected, prepared, and laid, some of the inconveniences of this system -might be avoided; but in the careless way in which this service is -generally performed, the road is as open as a sieve to receive water; -which penetrates through the whole mass, is received and retained in the -trench, whence the road is liable to give way in all changes of weather. - -A road formed on such principles has never effectually answered the -purpose which the road-maker should constantly have in view; namely, to -make a secure, level flooring, over which carriages may pass with -safety, and equal expedition, at all seasons of the year. - -If it be admitted, as I believe it is now very generally, that in this -kingdom an artificial road is only required to obviate the inconvenience -of a very unsettled climate; and that water with alternate frost and -thaw, are the evils to be guarded against, it must be obvious that -nothing can be more erroneous than providing a reservoir for water under -the road and giving facility to the water to pass through the road into -this trench, where it is acted upon by frost to the destruction of the -road. - -As no artificial road can ever be made so good, and so useful as the -natural soil in a _dry state_, it is only necessary to procure, and -preserve this dry state of so much ground as is intended to be occupied -by a road. - -The first operation in making a road should be the reverse of digging a -trench. The road should not be sunk below, but rather raised above, the -ordinary level of the adjacent ground, care should at any rate be taken, -that there be a sufficient fall to take off the water, so that it should -always be some inches below the level of the ground upon which the road -is intended to be placed: this must be done, either by making drains to -lower ground, or if that be not practicable, from the nature of the -country, then the soil upon which the road is proposed to be laid, must -be raised by addition, so as to be some inches above the level of the -water. - -Having secured the soil from under water, the road-maker is next to -secure it from rain water, by a solid road, made of clean, dry stone, or -flint, so selected, prepared, and laid, as to be perfectly impervious to -water: and this cannot be effected, unless the greatest care be taken, -that no earth, clay, chalk, or other matter, that will hold or conduct -water, be mixed with the broken stone; which must be so prepared and -laid, as to unite by its own angles into a firm, compact, impenetrable -body. - -The thickness of such road is immaterial, as to its strength for -carrying weight; this object is already obtained by providing a dry -surface, over which the road is to be placed as a covering, or roof, to -preserve it in that state: experience having shewn, that if water passes -through a road, and fill the native soil, the road, whatever may be its -thickness, loses its support, and goes to pieces. - -In consequence of an alteration in the line of the turnpike road, near -Rownham Ferry, in the parish of Ashton, near Bristol, it has been -necessary to remove the old road. This road was lifted and relaid very -skilfully in 1816; since which time it has been in contemplation to -change the line, and consequently, it has been suffered to wear very -thin. At present it is not above three inches thick in most places, and -in none more than four: yet on removing the road it was found, that no -water had penetrated, nor had the frost affected it during all the late -winter; and the natural earth beneath the road was found perfectly dry. - -Several new roads have been constructed an this principle within the -last three years. Part of the great north road from London by Hoddesdon -in Hertfordshire—two pieces of road on Durdham Down, and at Rownham -Ferry, near Bristol—with several private roads, in the eastern part of -Sussex. - -None of those roads exceed six inches in thickness, and although that on -the great north road is subjected to a very heavy traffic, (being only -fifteen miles distant from London) it has not given way, nor was it -affected by the late severe winter; when the roads between that and -London became impassable, by breaking up to the bottom, and the mails -and other coaches were obliged to reach London by circuitous routes. It -is worthy of observation, that these bad roads cost more money per mile -for their annual repair, than the original making of this useful new -road. - -Improvement of roads, upon the principle I have endeavoured to explain, -has been rapidly extended during the last four years. It has been -carried into effect, on various roads, and with every variety of -material, in seventeen different counties. These roads being so -constructed as to exclude water, consequently none of them broke up -during the late severe winter; there was no interruption to travelling, -nor any additional expense by the Post-office in conveying the mails -over them, to the extent of upwards of one thousand miles of road. - -Many new roads, and to a considerable extent, are projected for the -ensuing season. Some of them are to be assisted by grants or loans from -government, and it will be a great saving of property, and enable -government to extend their assistance more effectually, if these roads -be made in the most approved and economical manner. - -The unnecessary expense attending the making of new roads in the manner -hitherto practised, is one great cause of the present heavy debt upon -the road trusts of the kingdom. The principal part of the large sums -originally borrowed, have been sunk in the useless, and in my opinion, -mischievous preparation, of a foundation. This debt presses heavily on -the funds of all the roads in England, and, in many cases, absorbs -almost their whole revenue in payment of interest. In Scotland this -pressure is still more heavily felt: indeed it is not of uncommon -occurrence in that country, for creditors to lose both principal and -interest of their loans to roads. - -This causes not only a great and unnecessary loss in the first instance, -and a deficiency of means for ordinary repair, and maintenance of the -roads, but it also discourages the formation of new roads. Were a better -and more economical system generally adopted and acted upon, many great -additions and improvements of the communications of the country would -take place, from which, at present, the landholders are deterred, by -fear of the extent of the expense, and the difficulty of obtaining loans -of money. - -The measure of substituting pavements, for convenient and useful roads, -is a kind of desperate remedy, to which ignorance has had recourse. The -badness, or scarcity of materials, cannot be considered a reasonable -excuse; because the same quantity of stone required for paving, is fully -sufficient to make an excellent road any where: and it must be evident, -that road materials of the best quality may be procured at less cost -than paving stone. - -The very bad quality of the gravel round London, combined with want of -skill and exertion, either to obviate its defects, or to procure a -better material, has induced several of the small trusts, leading from -that city, to have recourse to the plan of paving their roads, as far as -their means will admit. Instead of applying their ample funds to obtain -good materials for the roads, they have imported stone from Scotland, -and have paved their roads, at an expense ten times greater than that of -the excellent roads lately made on some of the adjoining trusts. Very -few of these pavements have been so laid as to keep in good order for -any length of time; so that a very heavy expense has been incurred -without any beneficial result, and it is to be lamented that this -wasteful and ineffectual mode is upon the increase in the neighbourhood -of London. - -This practice has also been adopted in places where the same motive -cannot be adduced: in Lancashire, almost all the roads are paved at an -enormous cost, and are, in consequence, proverbially bad. At Edinburgh, -where they have the best and cheapest materials in the kingdom, the want -of science to construct good roads, has led the trustees to adopt the -expedient of pavements, to a considerable extent; and at an expense -hardly credible, when compared with what would have been the cost of -roads on the best principles. - -The advantages of good roads, when compared with pavements, are -universally acknowledged; the extension of pavement is therefore to be -deprecated as an actual evil, besides the greatness of the expence. -Pavements are particularly inconvenient and dangerous on steep ascents, -such as the ascent to bridges, &c. A very striking example of this may -be observed on the London end of Blackfriars Bridge, where heavy loads -are drawn up with great difficulty, and where more horses fall and -receive injury, than in any other place in the kingdom. The pavement in -such places should be lifted, and converted into a good road; which may -be done with the same stone, at an expense not exceeding ten-pence per -square yard. This road would be more lasting than the pavement, and, -when out of order, may be repaired at less than one-tenth of the expense -which relaying the pavement would require. - -This measure has been adopted with great success, and considerable -saving of expense, in the suburbs of Bristol, where the pavements were -taken up, and converted into good roads, about three years ago. - -The advantages of the system recommended is so obvious to common -observation in the repair of old roads, and has been practised to an -extent so considerable, during the last four years, that the minds of -most people have become reconciled to it; and objections, founded on old -prejudice and suspicion, have given way to experience, but the -application of the same principles to the construction of new roads, has -necessarily been much more limited. It will, therefore, require more -liberality and confidence on the part of country gentlemen, and also -more patient investigation of the principles on which the system is -founded, before they will allow of its adoption on new lines of road. It -is to be hoped, however, that the importance of the subject will -recommend it to general consideration. - - - - - REPORT - FROM THE - SELECT COMMITTEE - ON THE - HIGHWAYS OF THE KINGDOM: - TOGETHER WITH THE - MINUTES OF EVIDENCE - TAKEN BEFORE THEM. - - - - - REPORT. - - - The Select Committee appointed to take into consideration the Acts now - in force regarding the TURNPIKE ROADS and HIGHWAYS in ENGLAND and - WALES, and the expediency of additional Regulations for their better - repair and preservation, and to report their Observations thereupon - from time to time to the House; and to whom the Petitions of Joseph - D. Bassett, John Richards Reed, and John Martin; and of several - Trustees of Turnpike Roads in the Counties of Middlesex, Kent, - Surrey, and Sussex, were referred;—HAVE, pursuant to the Orders of - the House, examined the matters to them referred, and have agreed - upon the following REPORT: - -Your Committee considered it their indispensable duty to direct their -first attention to the Reports of former Committees, appointed to -investigate the same important subject; in these Reports, as well as in -the documents subjoined to them, are to be found much scientific -information, and many valuable suggestions, which have doubtless tended -to aid the progress of improvement in the art of making and preserving -roads. Still the object of amending the laws which relate to them has -been unattained, the bills introduced with a partial view to that -purpose having been lost in their progress through Parliament, and the -suggestions for more general improvements having been allowed to remain -without further notice. - -If your Committee may be permitted to assign the probable reasons of -this discouraging result of the labours of their predecessors, they -would venture to suggest, that too wide a field of inquiry was taken to -lead to immediate practical benefit: that some of the systems most -confidently recommended were of a novel and speculative nature; that the -regulations which it was proposed to found on them too strongly affected -the interests of vested property; and that even the most valuable -information communicated to the House rested upon ingenious theories, -which had then been very partially, if at all, reduced to practice, or -submitted to fair experiment. - -As the considerations which influenced the appointment of the present -Committee, avowedly sprang from the successful trial of an improved -system of making roads, your Committee have judged it right to institute -a particular examination into all the circumstances of that experiment, -and the various instances in which the example has been followed. - -Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam having for many years directed his attention, as -a magistrate and a commissioner, to the improvement of roads, was -induced to accept the situation of general surveyor of an extensive -trust round the city of Bristol. - -The admirable state of repair into which the roads under his direction -were brought, attracted very general attention; and induced the -commissioners of various districts to apply for his assistance or -advice. - -The general testimony borne to his complete success wherever he has been -employed, and the proof that his improvements have been attended with an -actual reduction of expense, while they have afforded the most useful -employment to the poor, induce your Committee to attach a high degree of -importance to that which he has already accomplished. The imitation of -his plans is rendered easy by their simplicity, and by the candour with -which he has explained them, though ability in the surveyor to judge of -their application must be understood as an essential requisite. - -Your Committee have dwelt on this improved system of making roads, as a -preliminary consideration to any alteration of the laws, being persuaded -that it is of essential importance to adapt the law to new -circumstances; that the first step requisite is to take effectual -measures for ensuring the _formation_ of good roads; and that their -preservation afterwards, if proper principles for their repair be once -adopted, will require fewer legislative regulations than former -inquirers have deemed necessary. - -For a full elucidation of the methods pursued by Mr. MᶜAdam your -Committee beg leave to refer to his evidence in the Appendix annexed, as -well as to that of his son, and of different Commissioners who had -witnessed the success of his plans. - -But though your Committee have limited their first inquiries to the -actual state of the turnpike roads, and the results of recent plans for -their improvement, they have by no means confined their researches to -the operations or the opinions of one individual. In the evidence which -they subjoin will be found, in the first place, a description of the -present general defects of the turnpike roads, given by those whose -employments and interest render them best acquainted with the nature and -extent of the evil; and this exposition is followed not only by the -detail of Mr. MᶜAdam’s system, already alluded to, but by the evidence -of other eminent surveyors and civil engineers, under whose -superintendence the latest and most perfect improvements have been -effected. - -Your Committee consider that high praise is due to the superior science -exhibited by Mr. Telford, in tracing and forming the new roads in North -Wales; but they contented themselves with a general inquiry into his -plans, aware that their merits would be particularly brought under the -eye of the House in the Reports of the Committee on the Holyhead Roads. - -The concurrent testimony of all the witnesses examined by your Committee -establishes the fact that the general state of the turnpike roads in -England and Wales is extremely defective, but at the same time proves -that proper management is alone wanted to effect the most desirable -reformation. It is not the least interesting result of the researches of -your Committee, that the most improved system is demonstrated to be the -most economical; that even the first effectual repair of a bad road may -be accomplished with little, if any, increase of expenditure; and that -its future preservation in good order will, under judicious management, -be attended with a considerable annual saving to the public. - -There is no point upon which a more decided coincidence of opinion -exists amongst all those who profess what may now be called the science -of road-making, than that the first effectual step towards general -improvement must be the employment of persons of superior ability and -experience as superintending surveyors. - -Your Committee, fully concurring in this opinion, have anxiously -considered in what manner this object can be attained with the least -expense to the country, and the least injurious or offensive -interference with existing customs and authorities. - -Various are the plans which have been brought under their consideration -for altering the general constitution of the laws affecting the -management of Turnpike Roads, proposing either to annex the -superintendence and patronage to some of the existing departments of -Government, or to constitute a new Board of Commissioners expressly for -this object. - -Your Committee forbear to detail the reasons which induce them to -withhold their recommendation from any of these plans, whatever -advantages they might afford in unity or vigour of management. - -They are of opinion, that many important reasons exist for leaving -generally the direction of the affairs of the different turnpike trusts -in the hands of their respective Commissioners, whose experience, -character and interest, afford the best pledges of ability, attention -and economy. If your Committee think it necessary to propose, in one -respect, an interference with their appointments, it by no means -proceeds from any distrust of their judgment or integrity. - -The duties of a head surveyor demand suitable education and talents. -These qualifications must be fairly remunerated; and it is evident, that -the limited extent of the funds of Turnpike Trusts, in general, do not -afford the means of paying to such an officer an adequate salary. The -difficulty might in many instances be obviated by voluntary -associations, but where the system is wished to be universal, it ought -not to be left to so precarious a dependence. - -The plan to which your Committee, after full consideration, are disposed -to give the preference, is that of empowering the magistrates of every -county, assembled in quarter sessions, to appoint one or more surveyors -general, who shall have the superintendence and management of the -turnpike roads within the county, under the authority and direction of -the Commissioners of the different trusts. It is not necessary at -present to enter on the detailed regulations by which the executive -duties of such an officer should be prescribed, so as to keep them under -the deliberative control of the Commissioners, whose meetings he should -attend, and to whom he should uniformly report on the improvements and -alterations he may wish to recommend within their trusts. - -Your Committee are of opinion, that the most eligible mode of paying the -salary of this officer would be by an uniform rate per mile upon all the -roads within the county; to be fixed by the magistrates at quarter -sessions, and paid from the funds of the respective trusts. - -The success of this plan of appointing general county surveyors will, in -a great degree, depend upon the firmness evinced by the magistrates, in -laying aside every consideration of personal favour, and impartially -looking to integrity, talents, and energy of character, as the -recommendations for office; some skill in the science of an engineer -should also be regarded as a valuable qualification. - -Your Committee have manifested their general disinclination to any -interference with the honourable and gratuitous discharge of the -functions of the Commissioners of Turnpike Trusts; in one instance, -however, they are disposed to depart from the principle which they have -recommended. A full consideration of the evidence relative to the -defective state, and injudicious management of the roads round the -Metropolis, and of the advantages which would accrue from a -consolidation of the numerous small Trusts into which they are most -inconveniently divided, induce your Committee to express to the House -their strong recommendation, that a special Act of Parliament may be -passed for uniting all the Trusts within a distance of about ten miles -round London under one set of Commissioners. It is to these roads that -the heaviest complaints made by the coachmasters, and the surveyor of -mail coaches under the post-office, principally apply; and whether an -improvement is to be effected by the importation of flint, and other -common materials, or by laying granite pavement in the centre or sides -of the roads, it is evident that, “the measure to be performed in an -economical and efficient manner, must be done upon an extended scale it -must become one interest, directed by one select body of men, of weight, -ability, and character.” - -It is the object of the recommendation of your Committee to render the -roads round the Metropolis a pattern for the kingdom, by the -introduction of the most judicious system of formation and repair, which -will thus be brought under general inspection; and the spirit of -improvement, radiating from this centre, may be expected to spread with -rapidity throughout the country, and to diffuse “those incalculable -public and private advantages,” which a former Committee anticipated -from the accomplishment of this great national object. - -Your Committee are deeply sensible of the consideration due to the -persons whose property is invested in the funds of these Trusts, as well -as to those who now act as Commissioners. They are perfectly aware of -the jealousy with which the House may view any proposition for the -creation of new offices of patronage and profit; and they do not -disguise their conviction, that it will be found expedient to remunerate -those efficient Commissioners who are expected to devote their time to -the performance of active duties. - -Your Committee however anticipate, that if the House shall approve the -formation of a Board of Commissioners for this object, they will deem it -proper to place at its head some persons of eminent station and -character, as a security for the independence and respectability of its -proceedings. - -All these considerations certainly require cautious deliberation, and -delicacy in arranging the plan; but your Committee feel confident that -the wisdom and judgment of the House will find the means of surmounting -the difficulties, without injustice, or hazardous innovation. - -It is obvious, that the formation of this distinct central authority -will be best effected by the introduction of a separate Bill, while the -plan of empowering the magistrates to appoint county surveyors would -naturally form part of a general Bill for amending the laws relating to -Turnpike Roads. - -Your Committee have weighed, with much attention, the comparative -advantages of an attempt to amend these laws by supplemental enactments, -and of the comprehensive plan of endeavouring to embody in one Act of -Parliament all that is valuable in the old laws, with the addition of -such new regulations as are acknowledged to be desirable. - -The Committee of 1811 were impressed with the expedience of “combining -the old and new regulations into one general code, divided into two -branches, one regarding the Highways, and the other regarding Turnpike -Roads,” though they considered that “it would require more time and -labour than those who have not had some experience in the drawing up of -such laws can be at all aware of.” - -“Your Committee do not hesitate to avow their opinion, that unless this -task, however arduous be accomplished, the laws relating to roads must -remain in an incomplete, uncertain, and inconvenient state. They cannot -doubt that the House will agree with them that the promotion of such a -measure is deserving of legal assistance on the part of his Majesty’s -government, to those who are disposed to apply their time and attention -to the undertaking; and they indulge the hope, that if the House shall -think fit to reappoint a Committee for the same object in the next -session of Parliament, much may be found done for the preparation of -such a bill.” - -Your Committee themselves have not been inattentive to many of the -amendments which they think it ought to embrace, some of which they -proceed to particularize for the consideration of those members whose -attention may be drawn to the subject of this Report. - -There is no object which appears more deserving of regulation than the -expense attending the passing and renewing of Turnpike Acts. This might -be lessened by comprising in a general Act such customary clauses as are -applicable to all trusts, and by dispensing with the attendance of -witnesses in London to prove the notices required by the orders of the -House; but a still greater advantage would be gained by extending the -period of the duration of these Acts, and providing for their renewal -without the payment of fees. - -A general commutation for statute labour appears to be required, both -for public advantage and private convenience. The amount of composition -might be levied as a rate; and it will become a subject of -consideration, whether some better principle may not be laid down for -apportioning the money thus collected between the highways and turnpike -roads. - -The advantage of authorizing parish officers to contract with the -commissioners for the repair of the roads passing through the parish by -labourers belonging to it, has been strongly pressed on the attention of -your Committee, but though they are disposed to admit that such a system -may often afford desirable relief to the parishes, they are not equally -satisfied that it will have a tendency to promote the improvement of the -roads. They think it right to bring the proposition under the -consideration of the House, though they are too diffident of its utility -to venture to add to it their recommendation. - -It seems generally admitted, that the present exemptions from toll -granted to broad-wheeled waggons require to be revised, as the enormous -weights which they carry render them more destructive to the materials -of the roads than their supposed advantage in consolidating them can -compensate. Without entering into the yet unsettled controversy -respecting the superior utility of conical, barrelled, or cylindrical -wheels, for the purpose of draught, it is perfectly evident, that the -narrow part of the surface upon which wheels of the two first -descriptions meet the ground, cannot give them the advantage of the -roller. As soon as impolitic exemptions shall be abolished, and the -tolls be regulated upon all carts and waggons, with wheels of a moderate -width, in proportion either to the weight carried, or the number of -horses, there will no longer be the same temptation to carry excessive -loads; and it is probable that a new practice, regulated by private -interest, may render it unnecessary to limit the weight allowed to be -taken. - -Some regulations appear to be absolutely required in respect to the -conduct of tollkeepers, and the liability of renters, for the penalties -imposed on their servants. - -Your Committee have thus noticed a few of those objects of amendment -which have presented themselves to their consideration. To reduce these -and other proposed improvements into proper form—to digest the various -provisions of former Acts—to expunge what is useless or injurious,—to -reconcile what is contradictory—to re-model and arrange what is sound -and useful, will require the assistance of the best legal judgment. Your -Committee however, after having thus availed themselves of the power -granted by the house, of reporting the partial result of their -investigations, will continue to make such inquiries, and to collect -such materials, as may pave the way for the accomplishment of that -important undertaking. - -It will at once be seen, that they have confined themselves to one -branch of the work committed to them, having conceived it to be more -judicious not to distract their own attention and that of the House by -too many subjects of inquiry, but to pursue that which they first -undertook to a practical result. - -Should the House adopt their recommendation of renewing the Committee in -another session, the subject of the Highways will naturally engage their -attention as soon as they shall have fully matured the plan for amending -the laws relating to the Turnpike Roads. - - 25th _June_, 1819. - - - - - MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. - - - - - WITNESSES: - - - Martis, 2º die Martii, 1819: - - _Charles Johnson, Esq._ p. 81 - _Mr. William Waterhouse_ 84 - _Mr. William Horne_ 88 - _Mr. John Eames_ 92 - - - Veneris, 21º die Maij: - - _Mr. George Botham_ 94 - - - Jovis, 4º die Martij: - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq._ 96 - - - Martis, 9º die Martij: - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq._ 117 - - - Jovis, 11º die Martij: - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq._ 134 - _James McAdam, Esq._ 136 - _Col. Charles Brown_ 144 - _Ezekiel Harman, Esq._ 145 - _Thomas Bridgeman, Esq._ 146 - _John Martin Cripps, Esq._ _ibid._ - _W. Dowdeswell, Esq._ 148 - - - Martis, 23º die Martij: - - _Mr. Benjamin Farey_ 150 - _John Farey, Esq._ 154 - - - Jovis, 25º die Martij: - - _John Farey, Esq._ 157 - _James Walker, Esq._ 165 - - - Jovis, 1º die Aprilis: - - _Mr. James Dean_ 182 - - - Jovis, 6º die Maij: - - _Thomas Telford, Esq._ 187 - - - Martis, 11º die Maij: - - _Mr. Robert Perry_ 195 - - - Abstract of Return of Turnpike Roads round London 196 - - - - - MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. - - - - - _Martis, 2º die Martij, 1819._ - EDWARD PROTHEROE, ESQUIRE, - In the Chair. - - - _Charles Johnson_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -You are surveyor and superintendent of mail coaches under the Post -Master General?—Yes. - -How long have you held that office?—Not twelve months yet. - -Has your attention been directed, in the execution of the duties of that -office, to the state of the turnpike roads throughout the kingdom?—I -have given a general attention to the subject, and I have had occasion, -of course, to give particular attention to it, when complaints have been -made of loss of time. - -In what state of repair do you consider the turnpike roads to be, -generally throughout the kingdom?—I certainly (as far as I have had an -opportunity of inspecting them) consider, that almost all the roads -might be improved; but there are very few instances in which I should -have thought it necessary to advise the Post Master General to -interfere, except in the more immediate neighbourhood of London. - -It is not the practice of the Post-office to interfere in the mode you -mention, by indictment, unless the evil has arisen to a very great -pitch?—Not until it has arisen to a very considerable evil. - -Do you consider that the general defective state of the road arises from -any local disadvantages, or from mismanagement in regard to the funds, -or the application of materials?—That question involves so many -considerations, that I hardly know how to give an answer to it; but I -think, that in general one may observe a great want of that skill in -forming the road and keeping it in repair, which is very obvious in some -parts of the country. - -Do you consider that the defects you have mentioned in the neighbourhood -of London, arise from any local disadvantages, or from the roads been -worse managed?—It is generally understood that in the neighbourhood of -London they have not so good materials to repair the roads with, being -chiefly gravel; but I think I may say, that there is certainly a want of -attention and of care. - -Have you known instances in the neighbourhood of London where better -roads have been obtained by superior management?—In the early part of -the winter we were under such great difficulties with respect to the -Exeter mail coach, that I was under the necessity of applying to the -Egham trust. It was at that time reported to me, that the whole town of -Egham had been covered with gravel unsifted, eight or nine inches deep -from side to side; the consequence of that was, that the mail coach lost -ten, fifteen, or twenty minutes every night. We were given afterwards to -understand that the commissioners had put that particular road under the -care of Mr. MᶜAdam, and at this time I have no sort of occasion whatever -to complain of it. - -Generally speaking, do you consider that the mails are detained more by -the bad state of the roads in the neighbourhood of London than -elsewhere?—They certainly have more difficulty in passing to and from -London for the first fifty or sixty miles, than in almost any other part -of the country. It is in the nights we have the heaviest weights, and -therefore it is very desirable that the roads near town should be rather -better, than worse than others. - -Has your attention been particularly directed to the state of the roads -in other parts of the kingdom lately?—I travelled a considerable -distance last autumn in the north of England. Certainly I considered the -roads that I passed over there, to be very superior in general to what -they are in the first hundred miles from the metropolis. Subsequently to -that, I have had occasion to travel throughout North Wales, and I gave -particular attention to the Holyhead line of road. - -By what road?—By Coventry. The roads which are found in North Wales are -remarkably good, and in my humble opinion, show great science in the -formation of them. The new roads I mean. The materials in that country -are of course very good. On this side of Birmingham, which is also the -road to Liverpool, there is great occasion to complain, particularly -from Dunchurch to Daventry. At this time that road is in a very -neglected state, very heavy, narrow, and blocked up by banks of drift. I -have had occasion to apply to that trust, but I do not learn that any -thing has been done. - -Have you found the system of indictment afford any effectual remedy for -the evils which you have had cause to observe in that way?—I think we -have. But there have been very few indictments preferred for some years -past; the postmaster general not thinking it right to press upon the -districts during the season of agricultural distress. I should say, we -do not consider that any reason, at present, for abstaining. - -Have you experienced from the commissioners, a disposition, generally, -to attend to such complaints as you have found occasion to make?—Such -applications as I have had occasion to make appear to have been very -well received; but I cannot say, that in many instances the roads have -been much improved. I will add to this answer, that I lately passed over -the road from Oxford through Henley to London; and although that is one -of the roads complained much of, it is certainly, at this time, in a -very improper state. - -In such cases do you not follow up your measures by stronger -proceedings, by indictment?—I think that in this case it would be -necessary to renew our applications, and perhaps to proceed by -indictment; but I have considered it prudent not to interfere, chiefly -in contemplation of the proceedings of this Committee. - -From what you have seen of the new roads in Wales, do you not conceive -that nearly all the turnpike roads in England are capable of very -considerable improvement, by an application of equal skill in the -disposition of the materials employed upon them?—I certainly do. - - - Mr. _William Waterhouse_, called in; and Examined. - -You keep the Swan-with-two-Necks in Lad-lane?—I belong to the premises; -I don’t keep the house; I am the coachmaster. - -You are the proprietor of many mail and other coaches?—I am. - -As the proprietor of mail and stage coaches, has your attention been -directed to the state of the roads over which they travel?—Yes, it has. - -Inform the Committee whether you think the roads are in such a state of -repair as they might be, under proper management, with the advantages -they possess?—Taking them generally, I think they are not. - -Do you consider that the amount of the tolls at present received would -be sufficient to place them in a state of good repair, under proper -management?—From what information I have been able to obtain of the sums -which the gates are let for upon several trusts, it is my opinion that -the money so received is quite sufficient to put them in a very good -state. For instance, there is one trust, which is called the Daventry -trust, leading from Old Stratford to Dunchurch; their tolls, I -understand, produce more than 100_l._ a mile per annum. Very little -improvement has been made in that trust; and the roads are very unsafe, -and in a bad condition altogether. - -Do you consider that that arises from want of proper materials, or want -of proper skill in making use of them?—From both. The materials that -they have in that neighbourhood, in my opinion, are not good; and the -people that they employ upon the roads are not equal to the task, and -therefore they are very much neglected. The surveyors and the men that -work under them are insufficient. - -Do you know of any instances where similar disadvantages have been -surmounted by proper skill and ingenuity?—I believe I can state that -upon one particular trust that has been the case. I believe they call it -the Hockliffe trust. It is but a short distance, but very great -improvements have been made upon it. The great improvements that have -been made there, I am informed by several of the commissioners, have -been done through their skilful and attentive surveyors. They have -improved that trust very much indeed. I believe I can mention another -road out of London that has been much improved, I mean the Essex road, -(their surveyor being a clever man, and competent to understand his -business,) between Whitechapel church and Brentwood. - -Are there any particular defects in the management of the roads -generally, which you think might be remedied, that you can point out to -the Committee?—In the first place, there may be great improvements by -the proper formation of the roads. I know, in some places, particularly -from here down to Colney, where there is a clayey bottom, and upon that -line of road there are a great many land springs; those springs -frequently work up through the gravel, and injure the road very -materially. When that is the case I consider that they should -under-drain the road, and take away these land springs, which would be -the means of having the roads firm and hard, much harder than they are -now. - -Is it not a common defect to place the gravel on the road without being -sufficiently sifted or washed?—Very much so. - -Do you not consider it as a bad system, likewise, to place the gravel so -much in the centre of the road, thereby rendering it of too great -convexity?—Yes, certainly. I think it is laid generally too thick and -too high in the middle. There is no necessity for the roads being -rounded so much. - -Have you known any accidents to have arisen from the steepness of the -road?—Yes; several accidents with my coaches, as well as those of other -people, in consequence of the road being laid so very high in the -middle. - -Is not that shape of the road likewise attended with a disadvantage in -the draft of the carriage?—I consider it so, inasmuch as it flings the -weight too much on one side. - -Is not a great loss sustained by the proprietors of stage coaches, in -consequence of the badness of the roads, in the wearing out of their -horses?—Yes; particularly so the first fifty or sixty miles from London. - -With regard to the performance of time by the mail coaches, do you find -that you labour under greater difficulty on the roads near London, than -on those at a greater distance from town?—I am certain we do. It -requires a greater quantity of horses to perform the duty, and, in my -opinion, it requires ten horses to perform the same number of miles for -the first fifty out of London, that might be done by eight, with the -same speed, beyond that distance. - -Is there any difference in the value of the horses used near town and at -a distance from it?—I can buy horses at 15_l._ a piece that will perform -the duty, at a distance from London, equal to those that we are obliged -to give 30_l._ a piece for, on the average, for the work near town. - -Are you in the habit of working coaches to a greater than fifty miles -from London?—Not at this time; I have worked coaches as far as one -hundred miles distance from London, and I always found there that eight -horses would perform as many miles as ten, the first fifty miles out of -London. - -Have not the tolls very much increased of late years under new acts of -parliament?—It is my opinion that the tolls generally have doubled -within these last fifteen years. - -Have the roads improved in any degree in the same proportion?—No, they -have not. - -Have you calculated the average rate per mile which a coach with four -horses pays for toll?—I have: It is my opinion that the average amount -throughout the kingdom is 3½_d._ per mile; it was above 3_d._ when I -took them above twelve months ago. - -Do you find that the horses wear out in a much shorter space of time, in -working coaches within the first fifty miles from London, than they do -lower down?—Yes they do very much. We calculate that our stock of -horses, employed in working the first fifty miles out of London, will -not last more than four years; in the country, at a greater distance, I -believe they calculate that their stock, on an average, will last six -years. - -Are you not frequently obliged to put six horses to your coaches, on the -roads from London?—Sometimes that is the case; we do work with six -horses where the roads are bad and heavy. I may say, from the knowledge -I have of one particular road, namely, from London to Birmingham, it -requires twelve horses to perform the same number of miles as eight -horses will do between Birmingham and Holyhead. - -How many coach-horses do you keep?—About four hundred. - -Are you acquainted with the new roads in North Wales, made by Mr. -Telford?—Yes, I am. - -Do you think that three of your horses would draw the Holyhead mail as -easily on those roads as four of them do the same coach on any part of -the road from London to Dunchurch?—I have no doubt about it. - -Does that arise from the construction of the road, or nature of the -materials, or both?—Both. The construction of the new road is -extraordinarily good, and the materials also are very good. - -Can you state what particular construction those roads are of?—They are -laid in a form sufficiently round to wash themselves, if there is a -shower of rain that comes upon them. They are not very high; and their -excellence consists in the smallness of the convexity. They are in the -best form I have ever seen roads made. - - - Mr. _William Horne_, called in; and Examined. - -You keep the Golden Cross Inn, Charing Cross?—Yes. - -You are the proprietor of many mail and stage coaches?—I am. - -Your attention of course has been directed to the state of the roads -over which they travel?—It has. - -Can you inform the Committee in what state the roads generally are, in -point of goodness?—I think in general they have been better for the last -seven years than formerly, though they are now bad. They are generally -bad, and might be very much improved. - -Can you state to the Committee any particular instances of improvement -that have taken place within your own knowledge?—Yes; one between London -and Hounslow, which must be known to every body to have been very bad; -that road has been made good, which was extremely bad before. - -Do you consider that the application of the materials upon that road is -at present good?—Yes. It is the better construction of the road, -together with the different materials from what they used formerly, -which have been the means of making that road better. They have brought -chalk and flints from Kent by the canal, and have got them at as small -an expense as gravel; and these have formed a hard well-bound road, -which was formerly bad. - -Upon what other roads do your coaches travel?—I will mention one which -is precisely the contrary, the Uxbridge road. - -Gravel is usually employed on that?—Solely gravely and the road is very -flat. It is made lower than the fields, which draws the water upon it, -and therefore it cannot be drawn off from it. That is the chief cause of -the road being so bad. - -Is it not the practice upon that road to pile up the scrapings or drift -by the side of the road?—It is. - -Within your experience, do you consider that the goodness of the roads -is at all in proportion to the local advantages or disadvantages; or -have you found that the skill and experience of the surveyors employed -upon them have effected particular improvements?—They chiefly depend -upon having good surveyors. The Dover road will show that more than any -other road I know of. I can remember that within these seven years, what -was then called “The Sun in the Sands” has been made a very good road. -That road was all loose and sandy: they have drained it, and it is now a -very good road. - -Can you state under whose superintendence that road is placed?—Mr. -Collis’s. He is now employed on the Brighton road, effecting the same -sort of improvement; reducing hills, and making the road good. - -Do you find that the roads on which your coaches travel, are much worse -in the neighbourhood of London than the more distant parts?—I find them -worse for coaches near London, but it may be attributed partly to the -greater quantity of travelling near London to what there is in the -country. - -Are the horses that you employ in the stages near London of superior -value to those that are employed at a greater distance?—It differs -according to the carriage. I think with the stage coaches, the horses -out of London are considerably more in value than those employed at a -greater distance from London; and as to mail coaches, _vice versa_. In -the country, the day stock of the coaches is very good, but in the night -they work them very badly. - -Do you find that your horses that are employed in the stages near -London, wear out sooner than those at a greater distance?—Much sooner, I -should think. I employ about four hundred horses myself, and I am sure I -buy one hundred and fifty a year to support the number, and keep the -stock in order. I consider that my stock wears out fully in three years. - -How much longer on an average, will horses last at a distance from -town?—I should think double the time: for these reasons; first, the work -is lighter, and next, the food is better; besides which, the lodging of -them is better; the stables are airy and more healthy; they have not so -often diseases in the country as we have in London. - -Are you in the habit of working coaches to any great distance from -London?—I work them half way to Bristol; with Mr. Pickwick of Bath, I -work to Newbury. - -Do you know whether the horses that are employed still lower down upon -that road, are considered to have lighter or heavier work?—I should not -keep larger horses for that work myself; I should keep short-legged -horses, because of the hills. - -Which are of less value?—Yes. - -Speaking generally, if the same skill and management that you have -mentioned in particular districts were generally employed, do you not -think that the roads of England and Wales might be put into a very -perfect state of repair?—I think, that with better direction as to -management, they might be put into a much better state of repair, at the -same cost, than they now are. There is a road, called the North-east -Road (the way that the Edinburgh mail comes,) which is much improved -lately, and without any great expense. - -Under whose management is that road?—Of a Mr. Clay. It has been done by -rolling the road, and breaking the gravel to a certain size, not putting -it on too large or too small; and taking care to turn the road well. If -the road is not turned well, it never will be good. - -This roller is a late invention, is it not?—It is. It impresses the -gravel, or whatever the material is, into the ground, before the road is -scraped; then they proceed to scrape it and take the slush off; this -rolls down the ruts as well. - -And from your experience, you have every reason to believe that it is of -great advantage to the road?—I have worked the Tyburn road, and the -White Cross roads, which were as bad as the Tyburn till this practice -has been introduced. - -Do you know any thing of the Reading road, which Mr. MᶜAdam has had the -superintendence of?—It is a very fair road; it is the best piece of road -in that direction. - -Can you inform the Committee the weights you are accustomed to carry -upon the different descriptions of carriages, mail coaches, post -coaches, and heavy coaches?—The post coach loaded is 38 cwt. weight; it -is never more than two tons. The mail coach also is not more than two -tons, I should think. As to heavy coaches, I only work two of that -description out of the 40 coaches that are in my own yard; they are so -little used, that they don’t generally weigh more than the post coach; -they don’t carry so much luggage. - -What is the weight of the heavy coach?—Not more than the post, because -they don’t carry so much luggage as some of the post coaches. I reckon -12 passengers one ton, coach one ton, and luggage half a ton. - -Have you known of any accidents to your coaches arising from the great -convexity of the roads in the neighbourhood of London?—I have had -accidents, and they have sometimes been attributed to the horses shying, -and plunging the coach on one side, so as to cause it to overturn, from -the great roundness of the road. - - - Mr. _John Eames_, called in; and Examined. - -You keep the White Horse, Fetter-lane, and are the proprietor of the -Angel Inn, St. Clement’s?—Yes. - -You are the proprietor of several mail and stage coaches?—Yes. - -How many horses do you keep?—About three hundred. - -What are the principal roads you are in the habit of working from -London?—We work the Canterbury, the Cambridge, the Dover, the Norwich, -the Portsmouth, and some others. - -Do you find that you sustain much inconvenience from the state of the -roads over which you travel?—Yes. As to inconvenience, I find much more -in the neighbourhood of London than the more distant parts. - -How long do you find that your horses upon an average last, that are -employed in the first stages from London?—My horses, upon an average, -don’t last above three years in the fast coaches. - -Including the mails?—Yes. - -And those horses in the neighbourhood of London, are of greater value -than those employed at a distance?—They are. - -Upon an average, how long do the horses last that are employed in the -more distant parts?—They last as long again. - -Do you attribute that in a great degree to the badness of the roads in -the neighbourhood of London?—I attribute it to the distress the horse -receives from the badness of the roads near town; but I attribute it -also in a great degree to the meeting of different carriages, and -crossing the road, which makes it more laborious to the horse, though he -does not appear to go so many miles. - -Do you not consider that that particular evil is occasioned in a great -degree by the convexity of the roads in the neighbourhood of London, the -materials being generally heaped up in the middle?—I do; it “tears their -hearts out,” as the coachmen express it. The roads are inconvenient from -the quantity and quality of the gravel heaped in the middle. - -Have you known any instances in which a different system has been -pursued, and the roads greatly improved, in the neighbourhood of -London?—The road from London to Cranford Bridge has been improved of -late, and from London to Hounslow more particularly, in consequence of -the pavement in the crown of the road, which has done away with the -gravelling, or shingle rather. - -Is not the gravel upon that road generally employed without sifting or -washing?—It is half clay. - -Have you known instances in which this inconvenience has been remedied -by superior skill and experience in the surveyor of the roads?—Yes; in -the same line of road that Mr. Horne referred to; in the Kent road -particularly. - -If that same skill was employed in the application of materials to the -other roads, do you not think that they might be brought generally to -the same state of improvement?—I have no doubt of it; there is no -question about it. The Surrey road has been improved on the same -principle. - -What do you call the Surrey road?—From London to Guildford. - -Do you know under whose management that is?—I don’t know now; a person -named Baker had the management of it. - -Was it under him it was improved?—Yes. - -How many miles of road does that consist of?—Thirty miles. - -And it is very much improved?—Yes. - -By what means?—The materials are harder than the gravel. He brings the -rag flints and breaks them, but in a different manner from other parts -of the road. He has improved it so much, that it does not look the same -road at all; I can go now sixteen miles better than I could twelve -before. - -Do you consider that the horses which travel these roads that have been -improved, last longer than formerly?—Yes. - -You need hardly be asked whether these improvements enable you to carry -passengers at a lower rate than before?—Of course; it is the expense of -the stock that is the great thing. - -If the roads were generally improved, travelling would be cheaper?—Of -course. - - - - - _Veneris, 21º die Maii, 1819._ - - - Mr. _George Botham_, called in; and Examined. - -You keep the George Inn, at Newbury?—I do. - -Are you a proprietor of mail and other coaches?—Yes. - -To a considerable extent?—Yes, and have been for some time. - -How many horses have you?—More than a hundred. - -Your attention has of course been directed to the state of the road -between Newbury and London?—Yes. - -State any improvement that has taken place in that road?—There is a very -great improvement between Marlborough and Twyford. - -Under whose directions?—Mr. MᶜAdam. - -In what state was that road before?—It was in a very bad state, and I -mentioned it to lord Aylesbury, and he applied to get the materials, and -offered to give up any quantity of his land for the widening of the -road, which he has done. - -In point of fact the road has been widened?—Much widened and much -improved. - -Can you state what improvement it would make in the draught of the -carriages?—Not exactly, but I consider it a very great one. - -You cannot state any proportion of the labour of horses in drawing a -carriage?—No, not particularly so; I did not expect to be asked, but it -is not very material. - -In what state is that road, compared with the road from Twyford to -London?—I consider the road from Twyford to be a little mended, but it -is very bad at present. - -Do you think by the adoption of the same system the road from Twyford to -London might be equally improved?—I have no doubt of it; the materials -are better. - -Which of course would make a great difference in the ease of working -your coaches?—Yes; I should think we could perform the journey from -Newbury to Reading in a quarter of an hour’s less time, which is -seventeen miles. - -Have you, as proprietor of mail coaches, had occasion to express any -dissatisfaction to the Post Office, with regard to your present -contracts?—Certainly, with very great reason. - -Do you think that you should be enabled to continue those contracts at -the present rate, if the roads are not put into a better state of -repair?—That entirely depends upon the price of corn; we were very great -sufferers till lately, that corn has fallen so much: or else my brother, -as well as myself, intended to quit the mails, because we were losing a -great deal of money. - -Do you consider that the system of repairing roads, which has been -adopted in that part of the road which you have described as under the -superintendance of Mr. MᶜAdam, is superior to any other that you have -seen adopted?—Certainly, I am sure it is, there is no question about it. - -And that its general adoption would be highly beneficial to the coach -proprietors, and to the public?—Most certainly. - - -Mr. _Fromont_ being prevented by an accident from attending the -Committee, it was resolved that the following Letter be entered on the -Minutes: - - Thatcham, May 1819. - - Gentlemen, - - I think it a duty incumbent on me to present to you my opinion - respecting Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan of repairing and improving turnpike - roads. From what I have noticed of his improvement on different parts - of the Bath road, on which I am at present working different coaches a - distance of above 500 miles per day, I think his plan altogether, _i. - e._ first of screening and cleansing the gravel, and breaking the - stones; secondly, of preparing the road to receive it; and thirdly, of - laying it on the road, is the best and safest method I have ever seen - in the course of fifty years experience in the coach and waggon - business. I have formerly had several accidents happen from the gravel - being laid too thick and very high in the middle of the road; and have - killed some hundreds of horses (extra) in pulling through it; and I - think I may venture to say, that if Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan was adopted - generally throughout the kingdom, in the course of a short time the - public would be enabled to travel with much greater ease and safety, - and at nearly one-third less of expense; at all events I am convinced - that nearly one-third less labour is required to work a fast coach - over part of the road between Reading and London, where MᶜAdam’s plan - has been adopted, than there is over other parts of the road where - they still continue the old plan In short, my opinion may be given in - a few words; his plan, if adopted generally, will cause the traveller - to find easier, safer, and more expeditious travelling, and the owners - of horses a diminution of nearly one-third of the original labour. - - I am, Gentlemen, with respect, - Your most obedient servant, - _Edward Fromont_. - - - - - _Jovis, 4º die Martii, 1819._ - - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esq. called in; and Examined. - -I believe, Mr. MᶜAdam, you reside at Bristol?—Yes, I do. - -And have under your care a considerable district of the turnpike roads -in that neighbourhood?—Yes, about one hundred and eighty miles of road -in that neighbourhood. - -How long has your attention been particularly directed to the state of -the public roads of the kingdom generally, and the means of their -improvement?—About twenty-five years. - -Are you a professional civil engineer?—No. - -Be pleased to state to the Committee the general state of the turnpike -roads at the time you first directed your attention to them, about -twenty years ago?—I think the state of the roads twenty years ago, was -worse generally than at present, and in particular places much worse. If -the Committee would indulge me, I would mention what first led me to -these considerations. On my first arriving from America in the year -1783, at the time the roads were making in Scotland (their Turnpike Acts -being in operation about twenty years at that time,) very many of their -roads were unmade. I was then appointed a commissioner of the roads, and -had occasion in that capacity to see a great deal of road-work. - -Where?—In Scotland. This first led me to inquire into the general method -of road-making, and the expense of it. Since that period, I have been -mostly in Bristol, where I was also appointed a commissioner of the -roads; the very defective state of which could not fail to attract my -attention. I was induced to offer myself to the commissioners, to take -charge of the roads as a surveyor, because I found it impossible for any -individual commissioner to get the roads put into a situation of being, -mended with any prospect of success; and no individual could incur the -expense of making experiments on a great scale. The roads of Bristol -were accordingly put under my direction in the month of January 1816. - -That was when you were appointed surveyor?—Yes, I have travelled at -various times, during the lost twenty years, to ascertain which are the -best roads, and which the best means of road-making over the whole -kingdom, from Inverness in Scotland to the Land’s End in Cornwall. I -have obtained all the information that an unauthorized person could -expect to receive. In the course of travelling through the country, I -have generally found the roads in a very defective state, certainly much -worse in particular parts of the country than in others; and in -particular counties I have found some parts of the roads much worse than -in other parts of the same county. The defects of the roads appear to me -to proceed from various causes, but principally from the large use of a -mixture of clay and chalk and other matters, that imbibe water, and are -affected by frost. Such roads become loose in wet weather, so as to -allow the wheels of carriages to displace the materials, and thereby -occasion the roads to be rough and rutty. More pains, and much more -expense, have been bestowed on the roads of late years, but without, in -my opinion, producing any adequate effect, from want of skill in the -executive department. I consider the roads in South Wales, in -Monmouthshire, in Cornwall, in Devonshire, in Herefordshire, in part of -Hampshire, in part of Oxfordshire, and some part of Gloucestershire, are -managed with the least skill, and consequently, at the heaviest expense. -The paved roads of Lancashire appear to be very unprofitable, and very -expensive. I shall mention to the Committee a few roads which I think in -a better condition and under a better system of management. Eastward of -Bridgewater in Somersetshire, near Kendal in Westmoreland, and near -North Allerton, in Yorkshire, the roads appear to be in a much better -state than in other parts of the kingdom; and there is a striking -difference in the moderate rate of their tolls, which I have always -found most moderate where the roads are best managed. I consider the -reason of the roads in those parts being in a better condition than in -other places, is from greater skill and attention being paid to the -preparation of the materials and the manner laying them on the roads. - -Does the superiority of roads, in certain places that you have -mentioned, arise from their better materials in those -neighbourhoods?—No; the same material is found in many parts of the -kingdom with much worse roads. - -Then, in general, you impute the badness of the roads solely to the -applying of the materials?—Yes. - -And also to the formation of the roads?—That I consider as part of the -application of the materials. - -Has there prevailed of late years a general spirit of improvement, in -different parts of the country, with regard to the roads?—I think there -has, and particularly in the west country. - -What instances have come within your own knowledge?—The roads -immediately round the city of Bristol to the extent of 148 miles, round -Bath to the extent of 49 miles, between Cirencester and Bath to the -amount of 32 miles, the roads of nine trusts in the eastern parts of -Sussex amounting to 97 miles, at Epsom in Surrey amounting to 20 miles, -at Reading in Berkshire six miles, amounting in the whole to 352 miles, -have been put into a very good condition; in addition to which, there -are now under repair, five trusts in Wiltshire and Berkshire, amounting -to 108 miles; six trusts in Middlesex, Cambridge and Huntingdon, -amounting to 91 miles; six trusts in Devonshire, Buckinghamshire and -Glamorganshire, amounting to 129 miles; making a total of 328 miles -under repair. These are roads that have been mended, or are now mending, -under directions which I have given, or which have been given by my -family. - -You are not particularly acquainted with the improvements taking place -under the management of other persons?—Not particularly; but I have some -knowledge of some of them from circumstances. - -You have not taken under observation the great road to Holyhead?—No; -that I understand is a new road. You asked me with respect to the spirit -of improvement; I would wish to explain in what way I think that is -proceeding. I have been sent for and consulted by 34 different sets of -commissioners, and as many different trusts, and in 13 counties, to the -extent of 637 miles, all of whom have been making improvements, and I -have had many sub-surveyors instructed and sent to various parts of the -country, at the request of commissioners; many surveyors also in the -neighbourhood where improvements are making, have availed themselves of -the opportunity of having instruction. Thus the surveyors of Southampton -and that neighbourhood have attended to what is doing at Salisbury and -Wilton; thus the surveyors at Kingston and Guildford have profited by -the improvements at Epsom in Surrey. - -On which road are the 20 miles that you mentioned at Epsom?—From Epsom -to Tooting, and then across the country to Kingston. Several surveyors -near Reading in Berkshire have imitated, with considerable success, the -improvements on that road. Mr. Clay, who has contracted for the repair -of the Kingsland road near London, engaged a young man who was in my -office at Bristol, Mr. Marshal, whom he sent afterwards to Leeds in -Yorkshire. It has been my study to give every facility to spread -information. - -Has your attention been directed to the roads in the neighbourhood of -London; and can you state to the Committee whether any corresponding -improvement has taken place in this district?—I think less improvement -has taken place round London than in the country. On the new Surrey -roads the example set by the pieces of road made at Blackfriars and -Westminster bridges has induced a little amendment; the materials have -been more carefully broken, and they have continued to use the hammers, -rakes and other tools which were recommended to them; but the general -improvement is unimportant: and I am not aware that any alteration has -taken place in the system of expenditure, and the mode of being supplied -with materials, or in employing more competent surveyors. - -From the experience you have had in the improvements that have taken -place, have you found that these have been attended generally, with an -increase or diminution of expense?—In general the expense must be -diminished by the improvements. The repairs of one hundred and -forty-eight miles round Bristol, and many expensive permanent -improvements and alterations, have been made in the last three years, -during which a floating debt of upwards 1,400_l._ has been paid off, a -considerable reduction of the principal debt has been made, and a -balance of a considerable amount is remaining in the hands of the -treasurer, applicable to further alterations, or to the payment of part -of the debt, at the discretion of the commissioners. - -Can you state what proportion that is?—I think the first year, 723_l._ - -What is the amount of the whole debt?—The whole debt is 43,000_l._ I -said a considerable reduction of the principal debt had been made, I did -not use the word proportion. I can mention that the balance in the hands -of the treasurer, on the last settlement of the account amounted to -2,790_l._ 0_s._ 4_d._ in the Bristol district, beside a considerable -diminution of the debt, and beside alterations and improvements. - -That applies only to one hundred and forty-eight miles round -Bristol?—Only to the one hundred and forty-eight miles round Bristol. -The Bristol district has been under one trust for twenty years, and in -that period the debt has increased to 43,000_l._ - -You will be kind enough to furnish the Committee, with a statement -similar to that which was supplied by you to the Holyhead Committee, -down to the latest period?—I will. Bristol is the only district for -which I can have precise figures, I have not had the finances in my own -management or direction with respect to the others. As I have only -advised with respect to them, I cannot give you the items; and I must -say, that my information with respect to other roads, must be much more -general than with respect to this road. In Sussex, the roads in nine -trusts have been mended with a considerable diminution of the former -expense, and the thanks of a general meeting of the trustees of the -Lewes trusts were unanimously voted to Lord Chichester “for the -introduction of this system, by which the roads had been so much -improved, and the country was likely to derive so much benefit.” - -Have you found that a similar diminution of expense has taken place -where the materials have been bad, as where they have been good?—Yes, I -have. - -Do you find your mode of management equally applicable where the -materials are bad as where they are good, and that the same -proportionable benefit arises?—I am afraid gentlemen suppose that I have -some particular mode of management, which is certainly not the case, nor -can by any means be the case; and in every road I have been obliged to -alter the mode of management, according to the situation of the roads, -and sometimes according to the finances. At Epsom in Surrey, the roads -have been put into a good repair, at an expense considerably under the -former annual expenditure, by which the trustees have been enabled to -lower their tolls on agricultural carriages. The road between Reading -and Twyford, in Berkshire, has been made solid and smooth since the -beginning of July last, by persons under my directions, at an expense, -including the surveyor’s salary, not exceeding fifteen pounds per week; -and their former expenditure, exclusive of the surveyor’s salary, was -twenty-two pounds per week. A great part of the road in the -neighbourhood of Bath, which was formed upon the plan laid down in my -report to the commissioners, and with the greatest success, is made with -freestone, which was always supposed impossible to make a good road of; -but it will make a good road. It certainly does not last so long as one -made of better materials; but it is equally good whilst it does last. -One of the roads out of Bristol towards Old Down has been made good, -where it was a received opinion, that from the nature of the materials -the road could not be made so; and the commissioners would not consent -to my beginning it until the road was threatened to be indicted. It was -put into my hands in October 1816, and at the Christmas following I was -able to report that it was one of the best roads in England for a -distance of eleven miles, at the expense of first outlay only of 600_l._ -and it has continued so until the present. - -Please to inform the Committee, what are the means, in your opinion, the -most eligible to be adopted for the amelioration of the roads throughout -the kingdom?—That question, I think, divides itself into two branches: -The operative part, in making the roads, and the care of the finances, -and the mode of their expenditure. I should imagine the operative part -of preparing roads cannot be effected without procuring a more skilful -set of sub-surveyors; young men, brought up to agriculture and labour -must be sought, and regularly instructed. It is a business that cannot -be taught from books, but can only be acquired by a laborious practice -of several months, and actual work upon roads, under skilful -road-makers. Young men who have been accustomed to agricultural labour -are fittest to be made road-surveyors, as their occupations have given -them opportunities of being acquainted with the value of labour both of -men and horses. But I should greatly mislead the Committee if I did not -inform them, that skill in the operative part of road-making cannot -alone produce a reformation of the multitude of abuses that are -practised in almost every part of the country, in the management of -roads and road funds. These abuses can only be put down by officers in -the situation of gentlemen, who must enjoy the confidence, and have the -support of commissioners, and who must exercise a constant and vigilant -inspection over the expenditure made by the sub-surveyors. They must be -enabled to certify to the commissioners that the public money is -judiciously and usefully, as well as honestly expended; without this -control and superintendence an end cannot be put to the waste of the -public money, and all the various modes that are injurious to the public -interest, the amount of which would appear incredible, could it be -ascertained; but which, I conscientiously believe, amount to one-eighth -of the road revenue of the kingdom at large, and to a much greater -proportion near London. - -Do you mean the frauds amount to one-eighth?—No, not direct frauds, I -call it mis-application; it must not be concealed, that the temptations -with which, even a superior officer will be assailed, the facility of -yielding to them, and the impunity with which transgression may be -committed, require great delicacy in the selection of persons to fill -the situation; and encouragement to make this a profession must be in -proportion to the quality of the person required. - -Do you not consider one of these mis-applications to be the injudicious -use of the labour of horses, instead of that of men, women and -children?—I do consider that to be a great mis-application of the labour -of horses. I am afraid that gentlemen may understand, from what I said, -that frauds are committed to the amount of one-eighth, but I meant no -such thing; I meant the loss arising from mis-application generally. I -have in general found a great deal more materials put upon the road than -are necessary, and I am of opinion that is one of the chief causes of -the waste of the public money. - -Do you think the loss arises, in most instances, from mistake, or from -any abuse in regard to the power and patronage which the situation -confers?—I think it proceeds from mistakes and ignorance mostly. - -Please to explain to the Committee in what way you think the labour of -men, women and children, may be substituted for that of horses?—I have -generally found that a much greater quantity of materials have been -carted to the roads than are necessary, and therefore the increase of -horse-labour has been beyond any useful purpose, and that generally the -roads of the kingdom contain a supply of materials sufficient for their -use for several years, if they were properly lifted and applied; this is -to be entirely done by men, women, and children, men lifting the roads, -and women and boys, and men past labour, breaking the stones which were -lifted up. - -By lifting the road, you mean turning it up with the pickaxe?—Yes; that -I consider as man’s work; taking up the materials and breaking stones, I -consider the work of women and children, and which indeed ought to have -been done before those materials had been laid down. - -How deep do you go in lifting the roads?—That depends upon -circumstances, but I have generally gone four inches deep; I take the -materials up four inches deep, and having broken the larger pieces, I -put them back again. - -Please to explain to the Committee the mode of breaking the stones so as -to admit of the labour of men, women and children?—When the stones of an -old road have been taken up, they are generally found of the size that -women and boys can break them with small hammers, and therefore I would -propose to employ these people to break those stones always before they -are laid back in the roads. - -Is it your plan for those people to break those stones standing, or in a -sitting posture?—Always in a sitting posture: because I have found that -persons sitting will break more stones than persons standing, and with a -lighter hammer. - -Does that apply to all materials?—To all materials universally. - -Does the plan which you have mentioned of breaking up the roads, apply -to gravel roads, or only to those roads composed of hard stones?—In -gravel roads and in some other roads it would be impossible to break -them up to any advantage; and in several places which I will explain, I -should think it unprofitable to lift a road at all. There is a -discretion of the surveyor, or the person who has the execution of the -work, which must be exercised. I did not order the road in the -neighbourhood of Reading to be lifted, but I directed wherever a large -piece of flint was seen, it should be taken up, broken, and put down -again; and I directed the road to be made perfectly clean—I am speaking -of a gravel road now—and I directed that additional gravel should be -prepared in the pits by screening the dirt very clean from it, breaking -all the large pieces and bringing that upon the road in very light coats -not exceeding two inches at a time; and when those coats were settled, -to bring others of very clean materials upon the road, until it settled -into a solid smooth hard surface, and which the coachmen in their mode -of expression, say “runs true.” The wheel runs hard upon it; it runs -upon the nail. - -Uninfluenced by the state of the weather?—Perfectly so. - -In your experience, have you observed that on gravel roads the materials -are generally very unskilfully and improperly applied?—Generally so. I -think always I may say, for I think I never saw them skilfully or -properly managed. - -Have you adopted the mode of washing the gravel?—No; I think that is a -more expensive process than is necessary. - -Do you think it more expensive than screening?—A great deal more so, and -I have another reason for objecting to that, with respect to the gravel -near London; the loam adheres so strongly to it that no ordinary washing -will clean it. The loam is detached from the gravel by the united effort -of the water on the road, and the travelling, by which the roads near -London become so excessively dirty; but it would be impossible to detach -the loam from the gravel in the pits, by throwing water on it; I have -tried the experiment and know the fact. - -To what particular practice do you allude, when you inform the Committee -that gravel is unskilfully applied to the roads in general?—I see that -on gravel roads, the gravel is put on after being very imperfectly -sifted, and the huge pieces not being broken, and the gravel is laid on -the middle of the road and allowed to find its own may to the sides. Now -the principle of road-making I think the most valuable, is to put broken -stone upon a road, which shall unite by its own angles, so as to form a -solid hard surface, and therefore it follows, that when that material is -laid upon the road, it must remain in the situation in which it is -placed without ever being moved again; and what I find fault with -putting quantities of gravel on the road is, that before it becomes -useful it must move its situation and be in constant motion. - -In order to attain the advantage you allude to in the angular materials, -I take it for granted, it is your plan to have the larger pieces of -gravel well broken?—Certainly; but I mean further, that in digging the -gravel near London, and places where there are vast quantities of loam, -and that loam adhering to every particle of the gravel, however small, I -should recommend to leave the very small or fine part of the gravel in -the pits, and to make use of the larger part which can be broken, for -the double purpose of having the gravel laid on the road in an angular -shape, and that the operation of breaking it is the most effectual -operation for beating off the loam that adheres to the pieces of gravel. -There are other cases besides that of gravel, in which I should think it -unprofitable to lift a road. The road between Cirencester and Bath is -made of very soft stone, and is of so brittle a nature, that if it were -lifted it would rise in sand, and there would be nothing to lay down -again that would be useful. I should not recommend lifting of freestone -roads for the same reason, because it would go so much to sand that -there would be very little to lay down again. I will explain what I have -done to that road between Cirencester and Bath; I was obliged to lift a -little of the sides of the road in order to give it shape, but in the -centre of the road, we, what our men call, “shaved it;” it was before in -the state which the country people call “gridironed,” that is, it was in -long ridges with long hollows between, and we cut down the high part to -a level with the bottom of the furrows, and took the materials and -sifted them at the side of the read and returned what was useful to the -centre. - -Can you state whether the plan adopted on this road has increased or -diminished the expense?—I think the expenses, by the last account, were -rather within the expenditure of the former year, even including the new -surveyor’s wages. They had been in the practice of allowing about 32_l._ -a week to the two surveyors as the ordinary expenditure; I directed the -new surveyors not to exceed that sum upon any account whatever, -including their own wages: but formerly they paid that sum, and paid the -surveyor his wages at the end of the quarter or half-year in addition: -therefore I consider the sum expended upon the road is rather within the -former expenditure than otherwise, except with regard to two dangerous -slips which took place at Swainswick-hill, which I consider as perfectly -extra. - -In the formation of roads under your management, to what shape do you -give the preference; I allude to the convex shape or the flat?—I -consider a road should be as flat as possible with regard to allowing -the water to run off at all, because a carriage ought to stand upright -in travelling as much as possible. I have generally made roads three -inches higher in the centre than I have at the sides, when they are 18 -feet wide; if the road be smooth and well made, the water will run off -very easily in such a slope. - -Do you consider a road so made will not be likely to wear hollow in the -middle, so as to allow the water to stand, after it has been used for -some time?—No; when a road is made flat, people will not follow the -middle of it as they do when it is made extremely convex. Gentlemen will -have observed that in roads very convex, travellers generally follow the -track in the middle, which is the only place where a carriage can run -upright, by which means three furrows are made by the horses and the -wheels, and the water continually stands there: and I think that more -water actually stands upon a very convex road than on one which is -reasonably flat. - -What width would you in general recommend for laying materials on a -turnpike road?—That must depend upon the situation. Near great towns -roads of course ought to be wider than farther in the country. Roads -near great towns ought not to be less than thirty or forty feet wide, -but at a distance from great towns it would be a waste of land to make -them so wide. - -You mean a breadth of thirty feet actual road?—Yes. The access to -Bristol for a distance of about three miles, if we had room between the -hedges, I would make about thirty feet wide. Between Bath and Bristol I -should wish to see the road wide all the way, because it is only the -distance of twelve miles between two large cities. - -In what way do you make the watercourses at the sides of the road; I ask -that question, having observed the farmers, in exercising their power of -cleaning out their ditches, dig them to such a depth as to render them -dangerous to be passed at night?—I always wished the ditch to be so dug -as that the materials of the road should be three or four inches above -the level of the water in the ditch, and to that point we endeavour to -bring the farmers, but they are very unwilling to clean the ditches at -any time when called upon, and when they do it, if they find vegetable -mould in any quantity at the bottom of the ditch, they will prosecute -their inquiry much deeper than is useful, or proper for safety. - -Do you consider you have power by law, at present, for preventing -that?—Yes; because the law says, they are to clean them out according to -the directions of the surveyors. - -In your experience have you found any impediment to the improvement of -the roads, from a want of power in the proprietors of different -navigations to lower their tolls for conveying materials?—I have found -in the river Lea navigation, that the trustees have no power to lower -their tolls, which were imposed by act of parliament upon merchandize, -and therefore, it operated in a great measure as a prohibition to carry -materials upon that river. - -Do you consider it would be to the interest of the proprietors to allow -materials to be carried on their navigations at a lower rate than they -are empowered to allow by law?—Yes, if they could. - -Do you know any similar instance as applicable to canals?—I don’t know -an instance with respect to canal trusts, but there is an instance with -respect to the Bath river at Bristol. No mitigation of the present rate -of duty on that river can take place if objected to by any one -proprietor, and therefore we have found great difficulty in carrying -materials on the Bath river. In one particular place we have been -entirely precluded from carrying any. - -Have you found any impediment to the improvement of roads arising from -the conditions upon which materials are permitted to be conveyed from -one parish to another?—Yes; I found that in several cases in the Bristol -district. One very strong instance occurred near Keynsham; we had a -quarry close to the edge of one parish, and we could not carry the -stones from it to the distance of ten yards, without the process of -going to the magistrates. - -Did you in that case make application to the magistrates?—I did intend -to make application, but before I made that application, I found in the -very next field, belonging to the same farmer, and in the parish where -we required them, the necessary materials, and I was under the necessity -of opening both the fields, to the detriment of the farmer’s landlord I -am persuaded. - -Do you know an instance of such an application as that to which you have -alluded, having been made to the magistrates, and having been -refused?—No, I do not. - -Do you think that a great inconvenience and loss of time would be saved -if that necessity of application was dispensed with?—It certainly is a -great inconvenience, and creates a great deal of heart-burning in the -country, and much dispute. I think the commissioners would very seldom -be disposed to carry materials from one parish to another, unless for -the general public good. - -What depth of solid materials would you think it right to put upon a -road, in order to repair it properly?—I should think that ten inches of -well consolidated materials is equal to carry anything. - -That is, provided the substratum is sound?—No; I should not care whether -the substratum was soft or hard; I should rather prefer a soft one to a -hard one. - -You don’t mean you would prefer a bog?—If it was not such a bog as would -not allow a man to walk over, I should prefer it. - -What advantage is derived from the substrata not being perfectly -solid?—I think, when a road ts placed upon a hard substance, such as a -rock, the road wears much sooner than when placed on a soft substance. - -But must not the draught of a carriage be much greater on a road which -has a very soft foundation, than over one which is of a rocky -foundation?—I think the difference would be very little indeed, because -the yield of a good road on a soft foundation, is not perceptible. - -To use the expression to which you have alluded, as being used by the -coachmen, would a carriage run so true upon a road, the foundation of -which was soft, as upon one of which the foundation was hard?—If the -road be very good, and very well made, it will be so solid, and so hard, -as to make no difference. And I will give the Committee a strong -instance of that, in the knowledge of many gentlemen here. The road in -Somersetshire, between Bridgewater and Cross, is mostly over a morass, -which is so extremely soft, that when you ride in a carriage along the -road, you see the water tremble in the ditches on each side; and after -there has been a slight frost, the vibration of the water from the -carriage on the road, will be so great as to break the young ice. That -road is partly in the Bristol district. I think there is about seven -miles of it, and at the end of those seven miles, we come directly on -the limestone rock. I think we have about five or six miles of this -rocky road immediately succeeding the morass; and being curious to know -what the wear was, I had a very exact account kept, not very lately, but -I think the difference is as five to seven in the expenditure of the -materials on the soft and hard. - -Do you mean seven on the hard and five on the soft?—Yes. - -And yet the hard road is more open to the effect of the sun and air than -the soft road?—It certainly lies higher. - -Have you ever inquired of the coachmen, on which of those two -descriptions of roads the carriages run the lightest?—Yes, I have; and I -have found that there is no difference, if the road be equally smooth on -the surface, whether it be placed on the soft ground or hard. - -But in forming a road over a morass, would you bottom the road with -small or large stones?—I never use large stones on the bottom of a road; -I would not put a large stone in any part of it. - -In forming a road across morass, would you not put some sort of -intermediate material between the bog and the stone?—No, never. - -Would you not put faggots?—No, no faggots. - -How small would you use the stones?—Not to exceed six ounces in weight. - -Have you not found that a foundation of bog sinks?—No, not a bit of the -road sinks; and we have the same thickness of materials on the one as on -the other. - -If a road be made smooth and solid, it will be one mass, and the effect -of the substrata, whether clay or sand, can never be felt in effect by -carriages going over the road; because a road well made, unites itself -into a body like a piece of timber or a board. - -In making a road under these circumstances, do you make the whole of the -depth of materials at once?—No, I prefer making a road in three times. - -Three different times?—Yes. - -To what size would you break the hard materials?—To the size of six -ounces weight. - -Do you not think that is an indefinite criterion; had you not better -mention the size?—No; I did imagine myself, that the difference existed -to which you allude, and I have weighed six ounces of different -substances, and am confident there is little difference in appearance -and none in effect; I think that none ought to exceed six ounces; I hold -six ounces to be the maximum size. If you made the road, of all six -ounce stones it would be a rough road; but it is impossible but that the -greater part of the stones must be under that size. - -Do you find a measure or ring through which the stones will pass, a good -method of regulating their size?—That is a very good way, but I always -make my surveyors carry a pair of scales and a six ounce weight in their -pocket, and when they come to a heap of stones, they weigh one or two of -the largest, and if they are reasonably about that weight they will do; -it is impossible to make them come exactly to it. I would beg leave to -say, in all cases of laying new materials upon an old road, I recommend -loosening the surface with a pickaxe a very little, so as to allow the -new materials to unite with the old, otherwise the new materials being -laid on the hard surface never unite, but get kicked about, and are lost -to the roads; wherever new materials are to be put down upon an old -road, I recommend a little loosening; but that I don’t call lifting. - -Have you stated what thickness of new materials you would lay down on an -old road?—I should consider an old road would not want new materials if -it had ten inches of materials before, but I should only pick up the -materials, and break the large stones; and if there were any want of -materials, I would lay on as much as would bring it up to somewhere -about the ten inches. - -Would you prefer doing that in dry weather or in wet weather?—In wet -weather, always; I always prefer mending a road in weather not very dry. - -Are you of opinion that any alteration of the present law, either in -regard to the repeal of the present regulations or the enactment of new -ones, could advantageously take place in regard to the shape of wheels, -and the allowance of weight to be carried in waggons and carts?—I am of -opinion that the descriptions of wheels given in all the acts of -parliament in the last sessions are the most convenient and useful; and -I have thought of the matter very much, without being able to suggest -any alteration profitable to the public. With respect to weights, I -consider there are very great difficulties in that business. We have -weighing machines in the neighbourhood I now am in, and I am persuaded -in many instances that they are made instruments of oppression, and in a -great many cases the means of committing very great fraud on the -commissioners and others; and if some method could be fallen upon by -which weighing machines might be dispensed with altogether, and the road -reasonably protected, I should think it a very great public advantage. -In the new Bristol Act, I have proposed to the commissioners that they -should submit to parliament to lay a toll-duty upon the number of horses -in a progressive ratio, so as to compel those people who offend to bring -in their hands the penalty in the shape of toll; I think it would -prevent a great deal of that system of entering into combinations -between the toll collectors and the waggoners, which is carried on to a -great extent. - -Do you think, that if horses in narrow-wheeled waggons were obliged to -draw otherwise than at length, it would afford any protection to the -road?—Yes. - -Has not the practice of making horses draw at length very much a -tendency to make the horses follow one track, be the road ever so -good?—Yes; and I must mention to the Committee, that the feet of horses -on ill-made roads do full as much mischief as the wheels. It is driving -horses in a string that makes a road what the country people call -“gridironed;” it is an odd expression, but it is a very significant one. - -Do you not believe, that if horses were attached to narrow wheeled -waggons in pairs, it would be found very considerably easier to drive -and guide them when abreast, than when placed at length?—I should think -it would. - -And would it not tend to prevent accidents?—Horses driven in pairs would -provide in a great measure against the accidents that arise from the -carelessness of those persons who drive them, which is extremely great. - -Do you think that if horses were put in pairs to waggons, the power of -holding back those waggons when going down a hill, would be so much -increased as to prevent the necessity of so frequently locking the -wheels?—Certainly it would; because on certain slopes it would not be -necessary to lock the wheels; but there are very steep hills where you -cannot do without locking. - -Is not locking wheels an operation extremely injurious to the roads?—I -am not prepared to say it is, if the drag-iron, as it is called, be of a -proper description. I followed a waggon lately, with seven tons of -timber on it, down Park-street, at Bristol, being a very steep road, -with both its hind wheels locked; and this waggon, with this weight of -timber on in and with both the hind wheels locked, did not make the -least impression from the top of the street to the bottom. You could -discern where the drag-irons had gone, but they had not displaced the -materials nor done any mischief. - -Don’t you find locking generally injurious?—Extremely injurious; on -rough roads it is dreadful. - -Would not fewer ruts be made if it were more the custom for horses to -draw in pairs?—I believe gentlemen are not generally aware of what a rut -consists. There are two kinds of ruts, generally speaking: one is a rut -produced by displacing ill-prepared materials, and that is the common -rut. When a road is made of ill-prepared materials, the wheel piles them -up one upon another, and that forms a very narrow rut, which just holds -the wheel; but a rut made by wear upon a smooth surface, is rather a -concave hollow than a rut, and will present no difficulty to a carriage -in travelling, and that is the difference between a rut produced by wear -in a very well-made road, and that produced by displacing the materials. - -Is there not much injury done to the roads by the heavy weights both of -coaches and waggons?—I am not disposed to think that upon a well-made -road the weight of coaches is material, or that it would be judicious to -make any legal provisions affecting that subject. In regard to waggons, -I conceive that the loads carried upon wheels of the description -encouraged by recent acts of parliament, whatever their weight, would be -very little injurious to well-made roads. I think a waggon wheel of six -inches in breadth, if standing fairly on the road with any weight -whatever, would do very little material injury to a road well made, and -perfectly smooth. The injury done to roads is by these immense weights -striking against materials, and in the present mode of shaping the -wheels they drive the materials before them, instead of passing over -them, because I think if a carriage passes fairly over a smooth surface, -that cannot hurt the road, but must rather be an advantage to it, upon -the principle of the roller. - -Are you not of opinion that the immense weights carried by the -broad-wheeled waggons, even by their perpendicular pressure, do injury -by crushing the materials?—On a new-made road the crush would do -mischief, but on a consolidated old road the mere perpendicular pressure -does not do any. But there is a great deal of injury done by the conical -form of the broad wheels, which operate like sledging instead of turning -fairly. There is a sixteen-inch wheel waggon which comes out of Bristol, -that does more injury to our roads than all the travelling of the day -besides. - -Are you of opinion that any benefit arises from those broad-wheeled -waggons, which would justify their total exemption from tolls?—None at -all. - -Does the answer you have given to the Committee relative to the effect -of great weights, apply equally to roads made with gravel, as well as -broken stone?—I mean it to apply to all well-made roads, whether of -gravel or of other materials. - -You mean after the road is smooth and solid?—Yes. - -But with regard to a new road, are you not of opinion that the materials -are crushed and worn out by a great weight?—Yes; no doubt that is so on -a new-made road, and one of those waggons with the wheels made conical, -would crush a greater proportion of stone than it ought to do. - -Do you not conceive that the state of the turnpike roads would be -improved by not allowing any waggons to carry more weight than four -ton?—I don’t know that that would make any great difference, under good -management. I think the defect lies in a want of science in road-making. - - - - - _Martis, 9° die Martii, 1819._ - - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -In your evidence last week, you stated that less improvement had taken -place in the roads in the neighbourhood of London than in any other -district, to what causes do you attribute this circumstance?—I consider -the principal cause to be the small extent of the trusts, and the -peculiar situation of London, which increases the bad effects of the -division into very small trusts. - -What are the particulars of the situation to which you allude?—The -situation of most of the roads near London is very low, difficult to be -kept free from water, the traffic is very great both in weight and -number, and therefore requiring more skill, as well as more care and -attention, than the other roads of the kingdom; the material found near -London for making the roads is gravel of a very bad quality, it is mixed -with an adhesive loam that cannot be separated from the gravel, except -by the united power of water and friction; this operation cannot be -effectually performed before laying it on the roads, but is done by the -rain and the traffic, producing a stiff mud, which is not only in itself -an impediment to travelling, but has the effect of keeping the roads -loose; the form of the gravel is also unfavorable, being smooth round -masses of flint, without any angles by which the parts might unite. On -the other hand, London is placed in a situation peculiarly convenient -for being supplied with materials from a distance, by water carriage. -The materials that may be so procured are of the very best description, -and, under the sanction of parliament, may be procured on very moderate -terms. The Thames furnishes gravel of a very good quality and quite -clean; by using this gravel, the navigation of the river will be -improved; the several canals, the Surrey, the Grand Junction, -Paddington, and river Lea navigation, present facilities for procuring -clean flint of the best kind; the coast of Essex, Kent, and Sussex, can -furnish a supply to any extent of beach pebbles, one of the best road -materials in the kingdom. Granite chippings might be obtained -occasionally from Cornwall, Guernsey and Scotland, as ballast; two -pieces of road were made with these materials near London, without any -mixture of land gravel, at Blackfriars Bridge and Westminster Bridge. - -What are the impediments which, in your opinion, prevent the -commissioners of the roads near London from availing themselves of those -advantages?—The very small trusts into which the roads in the immediate -vicinity of London are divided, is the principal cause; this renders it -impossible for commissioners to enter upon the plan of procuring -materials upon an extended scale, and they cannot be obtained with any -regard to economy, except in quantity, with a view to a supply for the -whole roads, proceeding from the stones of London to a certain distance. -There are also some impediments arising from particular laws, -regulations and customs, which can only be removed by parliament. The -Ballast Act gives a right of pre-emption to the Trinity House of all -stone and other materials brought as ballast into the Thames. The -coasting duty on stone operates as a prohibition to the importation of -stone as merchandize; the amount of canal duties payable on merchandize -prevents the carriage of road materials on all inland navigations; -manure so transported has been protected in most Canal Acts, but road -materials have not been considered. Should parliament be pleased to -remove these difficulties, the London roads may be rendered independent -of the gravel of the country, by a moderate exertion of statistical and -mercantile information on the part of the officers employed by the -commissioners. - -If the Committee understand you right, you give a decided preference to -materials thus imported, over the gravel to be found in the -neighbourhood of London?—I do. - -Is it your opinion, that by proper regulations a sufficient supply of -those materials to which you have alluded, could be procured for the -whole of the roads in the neighbourhood of London?—Yes, I think there -might; because a steady and constant demand, even at a low price, would -insure importation, and this demand can only be steady if the roads -round London were consolidated under one set of commissioners acting for -the whole, and having depôts into which they could receive materials at -all times at a fixed price, to be distributed wherever wanted, by an -assurance of a ready purchaser; vessels coming in ballast, or not fully -loaded, from any place where good road materials were to be procured, -would be induced to take on board sufficient to make up their loading; -contracts could also be made for flint by the various canals, and upon -terms more moderate than the present price of gravel; I am unable to lay -before the Committee a detailed plan for supplying the London roads with -good and cheap materials, which requires a considerable time and -attention in the inquiry. - -Is there any other information connected with the improvement of the -roads in the neighbourhood of London, which you think you could give to -the Committee?—I am quite satisfied that the materials to be imported -into London would make good roads, because I made two pieces of very -excellent road with those materials at the two bridges, without making -use of any gravel of the country. - -At what time was this done?—The pieces of road were made in August and -September 1817. - -What was the extent?—There were about 200 yards of the one, and about -180 yards of the other; one of them joins the iron pavement at the foot -of Blackfriars bridge; and the other joins the Marsh-gate turnpike, and -goes to the Asylum; those roads were made with river-gravel and pebbles -from the coast. - -From whence did you get the river-gravel?—It was purchased from the -steam-engines that raise it in the river. - -Did you lift the old road?—I took up all the stones that were in them -that were good for any thing, the flints and other stones, and then made -use of a considerable quantity of additional materials to make the -surface of the road afterwards. - -Was the expense considerable?—There was no account kept of the expense -of the experiment at Westminster bridge, because the commissioners -wished me to employ a number of paupers and persons that had been on the -road before, without discharging them, who were very indifferent hands; -and they also wished that the road should be very considerably above the -level than I thought necessary, and that brought much more materials -than otherwise need have been put on; but the Blackfriars bridge -experiment cost about seven-pence halfpenny per square yard; there was a -very correct account kept of it, including the price of materials and -labour, and every thing. - -Could you state what that would amount to for a mile?—That would depend -upon the breadth of the road. - -At what rate per mile would be the expense of such an improvement, -supposing the road thirty feet wide?—About 528l. or 530_l._ - -Is not a road constructed with a roadway of sixteen feet breadth of -solid materials, and with six feet on each side of that with slighter -materials, a sufficient road for the general purposes of country -travelling?—Yes; and generally the roads round Bristol are made with -stone, about the breadth of sixteen feet. - -In your former answer respecting materials, you made use generally of -the term roads “round London,” to what extent did you mean to convey the -idea of that improvement?—I should think that the river, and the -facility of the canals, might in all places allow you to carry the -improvement ten miles round London; and perhaps where the canals or -rail-ways come through the country, you might carry the improvement -farther. - -Has not the system of road management at present practised, the effect -of repressing efforts for acquiring skill and exertions of science, as -connected with the business of road-making?—I think it has. - -Will you explain in what way?—Because the surveyors at present appointed -are not required to have any particular skill in their business before -they are appointed; but the appointment generally takes place to provide -for some person a situation; and the want of superior officers over the -sub-surveyors is the means of preventing those sub-surveyors from -acquiring a knowledge necessary to execute their duties under an officer -who would know whether they were able to execute them or not. - -You mean that there is a not a sufficient degree of inspection and -control provided by the legislature over the conduct of the surveyor of -the roads?—I think so. - -Do you conceive that a more scientific system of management of roads is -wanted universally?—I do. - -Do not you conceive that the want of this scientific system leads to a -great waste of public money?—I think it leads to a great waste of public -money. - -And also to a great waste of property in horses and carriages?—I think -it does. - -Has any estimate ever been made of the extent of that loss?—There can be -no accurate estimate of a loss so universal as that of the waste of -horses and carriages by bad roads; but the Committee of 1811 estimated -the saving which would be made to the country by putting the roads in a -proper state of repair, at a sum equal to five millions annually. - -What remedy would you propose to cure the defects of the general system -of road management?—My opinion is, that the only cure would be to have -people of a better station of life placed over them in the direction of -this business; that each county or large district in the country ought -to have an officer in the character of a gentleman, to oversee the -surveyors of the district; not only to direct them what to do, but to -see that the work is judiciously and honestly executed; and I think a -very small proportion of the sum now wasted by bad management would pay -for such an establishment. - -Would you alter the trusts?—That would be a great advantage, if the -trusts could be consolidated; but there are objections to that, and very -serious objections. - -Local objections?—Yes, such as the debt upon each trust. - -Do you propose the appointment of those overseers to be with the present -commissioners of the roads?—Certainly. - -Do you propose any general inspection to be established over the whole -system of road-making?—I should think it a public advantage if there was -some inspection or controlling power in some quarter or other, to -prevent the general surveyors from being improperly appointed; but -whether that controlling power should emanate from the government, or -the authorities in the county, I am not a judge. - -Do you think a controlling power established in the metropolis, to -communicate on the subject throughout the kingdom, would be an -advantageous establishment?—I think it would be a very profitable and -desirable establishment. - -Looking to the revenues and to practical advantages?—Looking to the -revenues, practical advantages, and to the dissemination of information. - -Would you propose their having a power of suspending officers in certain -cases?—Certainly, till the pleasure of the commissioners was known; on -any gross instance of misconduct or negligence. - -Would not you propose they should report occasionally the state and -condition of the roads, and also the state of the finances of each -trust?—I should think the state of the finances ought to be reported in -some way every year, that they might reach parliament, either by -counties, or by some means the least expensive and least troublesome; -and I think such a report of the finances, annually, would be a great -means of preventing mis-application of the public funds; and it would -create a comparison between one part of the country and another, that -would be useful in checking misconduct. - -Then you do not think there is, at present, a sufficient protection of -the road revenue of the kingdom against dishonest or ignorant -practices?—I think the road revenue is less protected than any other -part of the public expenditure; and, though it is very large, it may be -considered, I think, almost unprotected, under the present system of -law. - -Have you any loose guess in your own mind, as to the extent of the -revenue throughout the kingdom, raised for the purpose of maintaining -roads?—I have been led to guess a million and a quarter a year, as the -toll revenue; from the circumstance of there being five-and-twenty -thousand miles of turnpike road in England and Wales. - -That is an increasing revenue?—It is certainly increasing very much; I -think the revenue has been increased by the increase of travelling, and -particularly stage-coaches. - -Has not it been the practice to augment the tolls considerably in all -recent turnpike acts?—In the three sessions of parliament preceding the -present, I think, there were about ninety petitions to parliament for a -renewal of acts, and an increase of their tolls, because they were in a -state that they could not pay their debts without the assistance of -parliament. - -Does not the great expense attending the renewal of acts of parliament, -contribute very much to restrain a proper improvement of the roads in -the kingdom?—The expense of renewing so many acts of parliament, as is -occasioned by the great division of trusts in the country, certainly -absorbs a very great sum of the road revenue of the kingdom; because -those acts are every one of them renewed every twenty-one years, and -frequently circumstances oblige the trustees to come oftener to -parliament. - -Do you happen to know whether there have been any steps taken by the -Post-office, with a view to forming some general arrangement with regard -to the roads?—I am not acquainted with any. I have had repeated -conversations with lord Chichester, the postmaster-general, and he has -asked for all the information I could give his lordship; and, of course, -I have given the information pretty much in the manner I have had the -honour to do to this Committee; and, I believe, his lordship is -satisfied, that the consolidation of trusts would be very useful: and he -has used his influence in the county of Sussex to have nine trusts -consolidated, for the express purpose of mutual assistance in providing -a general surveyor. - -Do you know the result?—I gave the result, and a copy of the resolutions -of the county, at the last meeting. - -Do you know the result as to the expenditure?—Yes, it goes to that as -well as to the amendment of the roads. - -Supposing any insuperable difficulty to exist in placing the management -of the roads of the kingdom under a board of management, do you not -consider that very great advantage would arise from consolidating the -different trusts round London, and placing them under an unity of -superintendence and regulation?—Certainly so; I think that that would be -a measure of the greatest use in the world; and I think that no -palliative, no other means whatever can be devised to get the London -roads improved, except consolidating the trusts under one head, or one -set of commissioners, or some body that shall control the whole; -consolidating the roads round London, would be the means probably of -great amelioration in the system or manner of mending the roads, and -that would serve as an example to other parts of the country, and might -be the means of extending improvement in the mode of road-making, and -would form a sort of school or example to other parts of the country. - -Do you think, upon the same principle that you recommend consolidating -trusts round London, it would be advisable that powers should be given -to consolidate trusts in different parts of the kingdom?—I should think -it very advisable that powers were granted by parliament to such trusts -as chose to do it, to consolidate themselves into one body for the -purpose of having a better superintendence, or for any other purposes of -general improvement; but upon considering the matter very fully, I am of -opinion that it would be more profitable that the Legislature should -give leave to trusts than that they should make it imperative upon them; -it will be absolutely necessary, before any such measure could come into -effect, that parliament should not only give this leave, but that they -should make the proceedings of the general meeting of those trusts -legal, which at present they would not be as the law stands; the nine -trusts in Sussex, who have now voluntarily associated together, hold -what is considered a general meeting of those trusts; but I by no means -think that their proceedings are legal, as the law now stands. - -In many cases where the consolidation would be beneficial, do not you -consider it would be resisted from local motives?—Perhaps it might be -resisted; it will be unfortunate when that happens to be the case, but -when the good effects of it begin to be seen in the country, I think -those objections would be got rid of. - -Do you believe that the first effects of such consolidation would be a -diminution of expense?—I am quite certain of that. - -How is that diminution of expense to arise?—By introducing a much better -mode of management, it would occasion more regularity in the mode of -keeping accounts, it would introduce a diminution of expense materially -in horse labour, and in various other things; that I think, upon the -whole, the diminution of expense by such regulation would be found very -great indeed. - -Do not you believe that the present system of maintaining roads is the -means of a continued increase of expense in the debt and tolls -throughout the kingdom?—I think the debt is increasing very much -throughout the kingdom and that the debt is perhaps greater than -gentlemen in parliament are aware of; at present tolls are increasing. - -Do you consider that there is a corresponding improvement in the roads, -in proportion to the increase of the tolls and debts?—By no means; my -belief is, that where the greatest expense is, there the worst -management is, or rather, that the worst management produces the -greatest expense. - -Then, in your opinion, a great improvement might be effected on the -roads in general, which might be accompanied in the end by a gradual -diminution of debt and tolls?—Certainly, I think so. - -Can you give any information as to the total amount of general debt on -the roads now existing in England and Wales? After inquiring by all the -means that an unauthorized individual could do in different parts of the -country, and ascertaining, as nearly as I could, the amount of debt upon -a great number of trusts; I have been inclined to believe that the debt -at present amounts to about seven millions in England and Wales. - -Are you of opinion that any considerable advantage might be derived in -the management of the roads, by a commutation for the statute -labour?—Yes; I think very great advantage would be derived by the -public, if the statute labour were commuted for money, and that, if it -were commuted at a very low rate; if it were one half of the real value -of the work, I should think, the roads would be more benefited by it in -general through the country. - -Is it the general practice in Scotland, under any act of parliament, to -commute statute labour for money?—All the acts of parliament I am -acquainted with in Scotland, have commuted it; one in the county I -belong to, commuted it twenty years ago with very great advantage. - -You have mentioned that the commissioners of the Westminster bridge road -required you to employ a considerable number of paupers; the Committee -wish to know whether it is the general practice, in your observation, to -employ paupers upon roads?—I have always found that in every place where -the improvement of the roads has been commenced, under any advice given -by me, it has been desired very much by the inhabitants that the people -unemployed (not, perhaps, paupers that generally receive parish relief, -but those people who come to ask for relief, because they cannot get -work) should be employed on the road; and it has been very much my wish -to gratify that desire by giving them work, not by the day, but by the -piece, because that has generally put them off the parishes; the moment -they get work to do, by which they can get their bread, and without -which they cannot get their bread, they quit the parish. - -Is it not the practice, in trusts where you have not been concerned, to -employ paupers, or very old labourers?—I have found in all the trusts -that have sent to me to take advice, that the labourers have been a -great number of them very inefficient men; and the excuse generally -given for that is, that those people would come to the parish if they -were not sent to the roads. - -Is the pay of those men proportionably low with their abilities to -work?—I have not found that to be the case. I have found that those -poor, miserable men, who can do very little, have been getting -considerable wages, and in that way a considerable sum has been wasted. - -In point of practice, then, the road revenue is made to act as a poor -fund?—Precisely so; I think the road revenue has gone to the assistance -of the poor in that way. - -In your experience have you found that the common mode of employing -paupers by day-work, is inefficient both to the improvement of the roads -and to the object of relieving the parishes?—It may have the effect of -relieving the parishes, but I should think it a very bad mode of mending -the roads; inasmuch as these men, when they have got day-wages, will do -very little, and for that reason I employ all our men on piece-work; we -have two hundred and eighty labourers in the district of Bristol, and -they are almost all on piece-work; it is very seldom we employ men by -the day. I was directed by the Committee, at their last meeting, to -produce some more detailed accounts respecting the Bristol district: in -obedience to that order, I have obtained the report made by me at the -end of the first and second year of my administration, which I beg to -submit to the Committee, together with the resolution of the -commissioners thereon. - - [_The following Papers were delivered in, and read:_] - - - EXPENDITURE on the BRISTOL ROADS. - - In the year 1815, previous to the - alteration of management, there was paid £. 14,285 2 1 - - An unpaid floating debt of 1,400 0 0 - - ————————————— - - Total expense of 1815, to 25th March 1816 £. 15,685 2 1 - - ============= - -Alteration of management, commenced 16th January, 1816. - - In 1816, outlay was £.16,127 5 1 - - Deduct accounts of 1815 £.1,400 - - Paid into 5 per cent. fund, - about 340 - - ——————— 1,740 0 0 - - ———————————— - - Total expense of roads, to - March 1817 £.14,387 5 1 - - ============= - - In 1817, outlay was £.15,830 4 11 - - Of which, permanent - improvements cost £.1,500 - - Paid to 5 per cent. fund, - about 200 - - Paid for a general survey and - plans 340 - - Whitchurch Bridge repairs 320 - - ——————— 2,360 0 0 - - ———————————— - - Total expenditure for roads, - to 25 March 1818 £.13,470 4 11 - - ============= - - - BRISTOL TURNPIKES. -Report of Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam, to a General Meeting of Commissioners, - 2d June 1817. - -Since I had the honour of reporting to the meeting of commissioners on -the 2d of March last, the amendment of the roads has proceeded with -success, and at present there are no parts of the roads of the Bristol -district in a bad state. - -Much has been done in partial improvements, which have altogether -amounted to a considerable sum, although not of sufficient magnitude -individually to come within the scope of the regulations of the general -meeting, that restrain improvements exceeding 50_l._ without special -order; several such improvements are still necessary, and some of the -small bridges require to be lengthened in the arches, in order to lead -the roads to them more commodiously, and to widen the roadway on the -bridges. - -The statement of the income and expenditure of the year, now made up to -the 25th March, presents a very satisfactory result. - -In the last year, a sum equal to nearly five times that of the preceding -year, has been paid into the 5 per cent. fund. - -A floating debt, which did not appear in the printed annual account of -last year, but which amounted to about 1,400_l._ has been paid off. - -The balances of treasurer’s accounts, which last year showed the trust -to be indebted on the whole to the treasurer 356_l._ are now so much on -the other side, that your treasurers have on the whole account a balance -in hand of 614_l._ and this balance is efficient, because the floating -debt is now reduced to the smallest sum possible, under the -circumstances of a business so extended. - -In addition to which, I have to congratulate the commissioners on a -reduction of the principal debt in the sum of 729_l._ 10_s._ 3_d._ and -that turnpike tickets, which were at a discount, are now in demand at -par. - - (Signed) _John Loudon MᶜAdam._ - - 8th March 1819. - -The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the -trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads. - - _Osborne & Ward_, Clerks. - - - BRISTOL TURNPIKES. -Report of Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam, to a General Meeting of Commissioners, - 1st June 1818. - - Bristol Office of Roads, 1st June, 1818. - -Since I had the honour to report to the commissioners, in June 1817, the -business of the roads has gone on successfully, and they have been kept -in invariably good repair under the present system of management, -notwithstanding the roads having been tried by all vicissitudes of the -most unfavourable seasons ever known. - -Several valuable improvements have also been effected in different parts -of the district; the very promising state of the finances having induced -the commissioners to employ great part of the savings of their income -for that purpose, instead of applying the whole to the liquidation of -the principal debt of the trust. This great debt has, however, been -diminished nearly 500_l._ while the sum expended on the permanent -improvements considerably exceeds 1,500_l._ - - _£._ _s._ _d._ - - On the 25th March 1818, there was a - balance in the hands of each of the - treasurers, with exception of the - Bitton and Toghill roads; and the - balance due to that treasurer has - been diminished upon the whole - account; there remained in the - hands of the treasurers, on the - 25th March 1818, the sum of 1,987 14 5 - - In the hands of the general - treasurer, from 5 per cent. fund _£._502 5 11 - - Due by the Whitchurch road to the 5 - per cent. fund, and included in the - general debt 300 0 0 - - ——————————— 802 5 11 - - ——————————— - - Balance in hand, 25th March 1818 _£._2,790 0 4 - - =========== - -It is very gratifying to report to the commissioners this material -amelioration of the funds during the present year, when the income of -the trust has suffered a diminution of 425_l._ 5_s._ occasioned probably -by the depression of trade throughout the country. - -It is to be regretted that the directions of the general meetings -respecting the payments to the 5 per cent. fund have not been more -punctually obeyed; but without entering into the circumstances of heavy -debt and other difficulties, which have hitherto prevented payments from -particular treasurers, I beg leave to call the attention of the -commissioners to a consideration of the importance of this fund, and the -use to which it may be most advantageously applied. - -The fund was instituted for the purpose of giving the general meetings -the power of extending aid to any division of the roads of the district -that might be in distress. As the favourable state of the funds, arising -from the system of management adopted by the commissioners, gives a very -reasonable hope that such occasion of distress may never again occur, it -may be expedient to consider of the propriety of converting the 5 per -cents. into a sinking fund. - -By application of such a sum, amounting to about 850_l._ annually, to -the gradual extinction of the debt of the trust, the means of continuing -several useful and very desirable improvements will be diminished only -in a small proportion, and the amendment of the general state of the -roads will proceed, without entirely losing sight of the justice due to -the creditors, and the desirable object of reducing a debt of such -magnitude. - -As it may be doubtful whether under the authority of the present act of -parliament the trustees may legally apply the 5 per cent. fund to the -purpose of a sinking fund, the committee appointed to prepare the new -act may be instructed to consider of this subject, and also for better -securing the due payment of the 5 per cent. fund at stated periods, -along with the interest of the debt, to the general treasurer. - -I have great pleasure in being able to continue to give a favourable -report of the conduct of the sub-surveyors. - - (Signed) _John Loudon MᶜAdam._ - - 8th March, 1819. - -The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the -trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads. - - _Osborne & Ward_, Clerks. - - - BRISTOL TURNPIKES. - - At a Meeting of the Trustees for the care of the several roads round - the city of Bristol, holden on 7th December 1818, at the Guildhall - in Bristol. - - - THOMAS DANIEL, Esq. in the Chair. - -It appearing that under the triennial appointment of Mr. MᶜAdam, his -office of general surveyor will cease on the 16th day of January next;— - -Ordered unanimously, That he be again appointed to that office for a -further term of three years, at the same salary. - -Resolved unanimously, That the thanks of this meeting be given to Mr. -MᶜAdam for the zeal and ability with which he has executed the very -arduous duties of his office, from which it appears to this meeting that -the most important advantages have resulted to the roads under his care. - - 8th March 1819. - -The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the -trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads. - - _Osborne & Ward_, Clerks. - -Does any part of that saving which is stated to have taken place on -those roads, arise from an increase of revenue?—There has been a small -increase of revenue, but whether arising from tolls or a better -collection of the statute labour, I cannot take upon me to say; but that -increase of revenue must be deducted from the saving of 2,700_l._, which -appears in the treasurer’s hands. - - - - - _Jovis, 11º die Martii, 1819._ - - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -Is there any part of your former evidence upon which you wish to give -any further explanation to the Committee?—In consequence of the surprise -and doubt expressed by some members of this honourable Committee, on -that part of my evidence respecting the carrying a road over a morass in -Somersetshire, and the proportions of the materials used upon that, and -the part of the road with a rocky foundation, which I stated from -memory, I thought it proper to write down to the treasurer of that road, -to request the favour of him to send for the surveyor, and know the -facts exactly from him. The treasurer, Mr. Phippen, who is a magistrate, -sent a certificate, signed by the surveyor. There was a certificate, -also, signed by Mr. Phippen; and with it there was a letter from Mr. -Phippen, of explanation; both of which I wish to put in. - - - [_The papers put in were as follow:_] - -“I do certify that that part of the sixteen miles of the Bristol -turnpike road under my care, from Cross, over the marsh lands, towards -Bridgewater, is now in the best state I ever knew it, which is wholly -owing to having the very large stones laid at the foundation when the -road was first made more than fifty years since, lifted and beaten very -small. The general strength of the road is from seven inches to nine; -and five tons of stones, I have always considered for the repairs of -this part of the road equal to seven on the other part over the hills. - - (Signed) “_Edward Whitting_, Surveyor.” - -“I, Robert Phippen, Esq. one of His Majesty’s justices of the peace for -the county of Somerset, and treasurer on the road mentioned in the above -certificate, do hereby certify and declare, that the contents are true -to the best of my knowledge and belief; and the road in question has -been under my constant inspection for five years past; and the surveyor, -Edward Whitting, is a person well known to me, and worthy of credit. - -“Dated March 9th, 1819.” - -“Letter from Robert Phippen, Esq. to John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq. No. 9, -Northumberland-street, Strand, London. - -“Dear Sir, - -“There cannot, in my opinion, be any necessity to lay the foundation of -a road on any ground, even the most soft and peaty, with large stones; -daily observation tells me, that this is a great waste of time, -materials, and money. I have had, for these five or six years past, a -great deal of experience in seeing roads made, one in particular, over a -very soft peat bog, by Wedmore and Glastonbury, in this county. At the -time this new line of road was proposed to be made, a great difference -of opinion existed as to its practicability, and the method to be -pursued to accomplish it. Some of the parties were for laying the whole -of the road over the bog with brush-wood, on which were to be put large -flat stones, and on those smaller ones. We who were the other party, -insisted that a more simple, less expensive, and more permanent method -was to make it with stones alone, broken very small. We, at last, -prevailed, and the system succeeded even beyond our most sanguine -expectations; for this part of the road has stood uncommonly well, -though the travelling on it has been very great, and with heavy -carriages, and the little repairs wanted have been done as an -inconsiderable expense, compared to the other part of the road made on -hard ground over the hills. - - “I remain, dear Sir, yours truly, - “_Rob. Phippen_.” - - “Badgworth Court, near Axbridge, - March 9th, 1819. - -I wish, in reference to the opinion I gave with respect to the statute -labour, to state, that I have to transact with sixty-nine parishes, -respecting their statute labour, in the counties of Somerset and -Gloucester; and that it is in consequence of these transactions, I gave -the opinion to the Committee that I had the honour to submit. - -What proportion of the statute duty, by pecuniary payments, instead of -the mode at present adopted, do you conceive might be saved?—I think, if -one third of the present nominal value of the statute labour was to be -regularly paid into the hands of the treasurer, that it would be more -available to the public roads, than the present manner in which the work -is done, and certainly less onerous to the agriculture of the country. - - - _James MᶜAdam_, Esq. called in; and Examined. - -You are the son of the last witness?—I am. - -Have you been employed as a general surveyor upon the turnpike roads?—I -have. - -Upon what roads have you been employed?—Upon the Epsom and Ewell -turnpike roads of twenty-one miles; upon the Reading road of six miles; -upon the eastern division of the Egham road, seven miles and a half; on -the western division of the Egham road, eight miles and a half; on the -Cheshunt turnpike roads, of eighteen miles; upon the Wades-mill turnpike -trust of twenty-nine miles; on the old North road, or Royston road, of -fifteen miles; upon the Huntingdon road of ten miles; and on the road -from Huntingdon to Somersham of ten miles; being together one hundred -and twenty-five miles. - -How long have you been appointed to them?—My first appointment was in -December 1817. - -Had you been previously in the habits of making the improvement of -turnpike roads your study?—I had at Bristol, under my father’s tuition. - -The information you have acquired, I presume, then, has been entirely -under your father’s system?—Yes, upon my father’s principles of making -roads. - -And those plans which you have adopted, have been entirely conformable -to the evidence which he has given before this Committee?—Entirely -conformable to those principles which my father has stated in his -evidence before this Committee. - -Can you give the Committee any information with regard to the revenues -of the different roads under your management?—The gross revenue of the -trusts I have mentioned, of which I am general surveyor, is about -19,550_l._ per annum. - -Please to state to the Committee, the state of repair in which these -roads were when they first came under your management?—The roads in -general were in a very loose, rough, and heavy state, much overloaded -with materials, the watercourses much stopped up, and the roads in -general in a very bad state. - -What improvements have taken place upon them since your undertaking the -care of them?—The Epsom and Ewell roads were put into a perfect state of -repair during the last spring and summer; the Reading road has also been -put into a perfect state of repair during the last summer; and the -Cheshunt turnpike roads have been put into a good state of repair, -notwithstanding that the improvements commenced in October, and have -been carried on through the whole winter: the improvement is proceeding -rapidly in the other districts; but the three roads I have mentioned, -are the only trusts that are brought into a perfect state of repair. I -venture to speak freely and with great confidence, of the good state of -repair of these three trusts; for the reason, that no credit whatever is -attached to me, except what may be considered due by the careful -attention and zealous execution of my father’s commands. The merits of -the improvements are wholly his own. - -Can you state to the Committee the expense with which these improvements -have been accompanied?—The expense upon the Epsom roads amounted to -1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ in the year 1818; that is the only trust upon -which I am enabled to state the twelvemonth’s expenditure. - -In what proportion has the expenditure been divided between the labour -of men, women, and children, and the price of cartage and of -materials?—I have paid for labour upon the Epsom roads, 1,146_l._ 1_s._ -2_d._; for materials, 98_l._ 10_s._; for cartage, 227_l._ 16_s._; for -tradesmen’s bills, 342_l._ 0_s._ 11_d._; for land to widen the roads, -115_l._; which makes up the expenditure 1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ I beg here -to state, that I did not avail myself of any statute duty upon the Epsom -and Ewell roads. - -Can you state to the Committee the expenditure upon these roads, in the -years preceding your having the charge of them?—I can; in the years -1815, 1816, and, 1817, which are the three preceding years to my having -the charge of these roads. In the year 1815, there was paid for labour, -379_l._ 14_s._; for cartage, 1,019_l._ 14_s._; for gravel, 486_l._ -15_s._ 5_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 178_l._ 6_s._ 3_d._; making a total -of 2,064_l._ 9_s._ 5_d._ In the year 1816, there was paid for labour -340_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,070_l._ 7_s._ 6_d._; for gravel, 563_l._ -1_s._ 10_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 382_l._ 4_s._ 5_d._ making a total -of 2,375_l._ 19_s._ 9_d._ In the year 1817, there was paid for labour, -339_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,103_l._ 16_s._ 3_d._; for gravel, -551_l._; for tradesmen’s bills, 681_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._; making a total of -2,675_l._ 18_s._ 4_d._; independent of the statute duty upon the several -parishes, which were called forth by the former surveyor. - -Do you know the value of that statute duty?—Not having had occasion to -call it forth, I am unable precisely to answer the question; but the -parishes are wealthy, and the statute labour must form a very -considerable amount. - -I presume the comparative smallness of the expense which you incurred -for materials must have arisen from making use of the old materials upon -the road, by lifting them according to the plan which your father has -described?—That was the case. - -In what state did you find the executive department of these roads when -you took charge of them?—I found at Epsom a person as surveyor, who had -been an underwriter at Lloyd’s Coffee-house, at a salary, as I am -informed, of sixty pounds per annum, and who was permitted to keep the -carts and horses, and do the cartage for the trust. At Reading, I found -an elderly gentleman as the surveyor, who was also one of the -commissioners, at a salary of twenty or thirty pounds per annum. I found -at Cheshunt three surveyors, the trust being divided into three -districts. One of the surveyors was an infirm old man, another a -carpenter, and another a coal-merchant. I found on the Wades-mill trust -three surveyors also, and the trust divided into three districts; one of -these surveyors was a very old man, another a publican at Buckland, and -the other a baker at Backway, with a salary of fourteen shillings a week -each. I found on the Royston road a publican as surveyor there; and I -found at Huntingdon a bedridden old man who had not been out of the -house for several months, and who had been allowed by the commissioners -to apply to a carpenter in the town for assistance, and to whom the -commissioners allowed twenty pounds per annum; this person, who -accompanied me in the survey of the roads, stated, that he could give -but little attention to the management of the road, the salary being so -small; and the state of those roads bore evidence to the truth of his -assertion. - -Without entering into individual cases, do you consider that it was -possible, from the nature of the circumstances and engagements of these -parties, that they could give that attention to the roads which their -improvement required?—I do not consider it was at all likely that they -would. - -What arrangements did you make in the executive department of these -roads after you took the charge of them?—With the permission of the -trustees, I appointed upon each trust an active sub-surveyor, whom I -required to keep a horse, and to have no other occupation whatever. - -Can you state to the Committee the expense of employing such -sub-surveyors?—The salary of the sub-surveyors in general is one hundred -guineas a year; and where the revenues of the trust have been small, as -in the case of the Royston roads and the Huntingdon roads, I have made -one surveyor do the duty of both the trusts, in order that that expense -might be divided. - -What emoluments have you yourself derived from your employment upon -these trusts?—I am unable to state the precise amount to the Committee; -for the reason that I have in every instance requested of the trustees -that that consideration might be deferred for at least a twelvemonth -after I was honoured with the charge of the roads; Epsom is therefore -the only road upon which that period has elapsed; and with the -permission of the Committee, I will read the resolution entered upon the -ledger of the Epsom roads upon that subject. - - 21st December, 1818. - - We have examined the above accounts of Mr. MᶜAdam, the - surveyor, from its commencement to this date, and - find that the sum of 75_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._ is due to - Mr. MᶜAdam, by the trust, say £.75 6 1 - - But as no allowance has been made to the surveyor for - his management, and as that management has given - great satisfaction to the trustees, it was resolved - to give the surveyor, to cover all charges, and for - his trouble, it being distinctly understood for this - year only, the sum of one hundred and fifty guineas 157 10 —— - - —————————— - - £.232 16 1 - -Which sum of 232_l._ 16_s._ 1_d._ the treasurer will be pleased to pay -to Mr. MᶜAdam. - - (Signed) _T. Reid_, - _Edward Archbold_, - _John Webb_, - _Thomas Calverley_, - _Thomas Halliday_, - _William Dowdeswell_, - _J. M. Cripps_,” - -With permission of the Committee I will relate what I stated to the -trustees, upon those resolutions being read to me; that I considered -that sum as extremely liberal, and quite sufficient for one small trust -to give a general surveyor, and were Epsom one trust in a district, such -a sum would be quite sufficient for their proportion of the salary of a -general surveyor; but standing alone, and divided from all other trusts -of which I had the management, and separated also by the London roads, -the necessity of my father’s travelling from Bristol and residing some -time at Epsom, and of so much being required to be done the first year -in a new trust, that sum did no more than repay the actual expenses -incurred. It will be obvious to the Committee that such a trust as -Reading, consisting of six miles only, distant from Bristol eighty -miles, and from London forty miles, and anticipating an equal liberality -on the part of the commissioners there, no sum such a trust could be -justified in giving to a general surveyor could repay even a moiety of -the expense of superintendance; the reward for my services, then, must -be looked for in the convincing proof that my father’s principles of -road-making are, if possible, more applicable, and more beneficial in a -trust where the materials are very bad than where they are good: my only -object in troubling the Committee with these observations, is to show -that unless a district of roads are united, the expense of a general -superintendence would not be paid by any salary such trust could be -justified in giving. - -Can you state to the Committee the nature of the materials which you -have employed in the different roads under your care?—At Epsom there are -flints; at Reading a very small, foul gravel, with a thick adhesive loam -attached; at Waltham Cross, on the Cheshunt roads, small foul gravel; -towards Ware, flints; on the Wades-mill trust, flints; on the Royston -trust, flint, gravel, and blue permet stone; at Huntingdon, flint, and -gravel; Egham, flint and gravel. - -Is there any particular method which you have employed out of the common -practice, for making use of these materials?—I have bestowed great -labour, care and attention in the preparation of these materials in the -pits, and in their separation previous to their being brought upon the -roads; and also much labour and care for a length of time after their -being laid upon the road, until it became perfectly smooth, hard and -level. - -Can you state to the Committee the probable future expense of keeping -these roads in repair, after they have once been put into good order, as -compared with the annual outgoings under the old management?—I am of -opinion that the expense of maintaining these roads in good condition -will be considerably less than the former expenditure; for the reason, -that the better a road is, the less the wear; and that there will be a -less quantity of materials required, when properly prepared, than were -formerly used, when they were brought to the road in a very foul and -improper state. - -Can you state generally, whether the proportion of labour, materials and -cartage that you have described upon the Epsom trust, agrees with the -same proportion upon the other roads under your management?—On some of -the other roads, the proportion of labour to cartage will be found -greater than upon the Epsom road. At Cheshunt, in five months, during -which the roads have been put into good repair, I have expended the sum -of 800_l._ forty of which alone was paid for cartage. Upon the -Wades-mill trust, out of 600_l._ expended, not a sixpence was paid for -cartage. Upon the Royston roads, where I have spent 500_l._ not any of -it was paid for cartage. Upon the Huntingdon roads, I have spent 20_l._ -a week, the whole of which has been paid in labour. At Reading, during -eight months, 500_l._ were laid out, 400_l._ of which were paid for -labour. - -Is it your opinion, that the proportion of labour, wages, and cartage, -is likely to continue the same, in the future reparation of the roads?—I -am of opinion they will; because there will be an increase of labour, in -the preparation of the materials, previous to their being brought to the -road; and also in the formation of the road after they are laid on. By a -more careful and proper preparation of the materials, a much less -quantity will be required to uphold the roads than formerly; I am, -therefore, of opinion, that the proportion of labour to cartage will -continue the same. - -It appears, by your answer to a former question, that the expense of -cartage has been much diminished, owing to your making use of the -materials of the old road; will not the proportionate expense of cartage -for future years be increased in consequence of your no longer having -the resource of breaking up the roads, but being obliged to repair them -with fresh materials?—In some degree it certainly would. - -In what way is the statute labour at present performed upon these -roads?—Upon two of the trusts only, the Royston road and the Huntingdon -road, I have had occasion to avail myself of any statute labour; the -fund upon the other trusts being more than sufficient to uphold the -roads without having recourse to statute labour. Upon these two trusts I -have derived some small advantage from statute labour. - - - _Colonel Charles Brown_, called in; and Examined. - -Are you one of the commissioners of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt -trust?—I am. - -How long have you acted?—Several years, eight or ten years. - -Be kind enough to explain to the Committee any recent improvements, -which have taken place in the management and repairs of the roads within -that trust?—Since the new method has been adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam, a very -evident advantage has arisen to the roads; they are now extremely good, -and were formerly very indifferent; I therefore attribute it solely to -the present mode adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam for nothing can be better than -the roads are at present. - -Can you state to the Committee, whether the improvement has taken place -with an increase or a diminution of the expense?—I believe at about -one-third less; At least I understand that it was taken at about -one-third less. - -Has there been any increase upon the tolls upon these roads?—Not since -Mr. MᶜAdam has had any thing to do with them. I have every reason to -suppose there will be a diminution, in consequence of the good state of -the roads. - -Having heard Mr. MᶜAdam’s evidence, can you give the Committee any -further information with regard to the means by which these improvements -have been effected?—I conceive that the mode of Mr. MᶜAdam has been the -means of making the roads so much better, that it is only wonderful when -we see it now, that it has not taken place sooner, being founded upon -the best principle possible. - -Can you state whether these improvements have taken place by the use of -any new materials, or by a better application of the existing -materials?—By the better application of the existing materials, -certainly. - -Have you found this improved system attended with any advantages, in -regard to the employment of the poor within those parishes?—With regard -to the parish where I live, and where my property is situated, I have -seen considerable improvement, since we have had the opportunity of -sending our poor to be employed by Mr. MᶜAdam, who has most readily -employed every one we have sent; and I can state now, that we have not a -man unemployed that I know of. - - - _Ezekiel Harman_, Esquire, called in and Examined. - -You are a commissioner of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt trust?—I -am. - -Having heard the evidence of the last witness; can you, upon your own -knowledge, confirm the testimony that he has given with regard to -improvement of the roads within your trust under Mr. MᶜAdam’s -inspection, and the advantages derived therefrom?—I can, certainly. It -is a matter of surprise to me, that so material an alteration has been -already made in the roads, the advantages of which are obvious to every -one travelling the road; and, as an additional proof, the coachmen who -are in the habit of driving that road have confirmed this statement. I -have witnessed also a similar improvement in the Epsom road, where the -forward state of the improvement shows an additional proof of the -advantages derived from this system. - - - _Thomas Bridgman_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -Are you a commissioner upon the Cheshunt trust?—I am. - -Having heard the evidence of the two last witnesses does your judgment -in all respects confirm the testimony which they have given, in regard -to the improvement which has taken place upon your roads, and the -advantages derived from them?—Most assuredly. I have witnessed these -roads for more than twenty years, in a variety of forms as a -commissioner. I have observed, the failure of two or three different -sets of coachmen and coach concerns down below, all of whom are now -saying, that if this system continues they shall require a horse less. -All these parties were originally much prejudiced against the new -system. - - - _John Martin Cripps_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -You are a magistrate of the county of Surrey, and commissioner of the -roads upon the Epsom trust?—I am. - -Can you inform the Committee what was the state of the roads within your -trust, previous to the year 1818?—They were very bad, having no -attention paid to the formation of the road; having the water, in many -places, going over the road; and great inattention paid to the breaking -of the materials, and to the expense attending the carting of them. - -At what time did you commence the alteration in the system of -management?—At the latter end of December 1817, when the roads were put -under the superintendence of Mr. MᶜAdam, senior, and when his son -commenced the management. - -What alterations have since taken place in the state of the roads?—By a -newer formation of the road; the materials being properly broken; and -the water carried under the road by trunks, or drains, with proper -gratings. - -Referring to the particulars of the expenditure given by Mr. MᶜAdam, -jun. in his evidence this day, can you confirm the accuracy of those -accounts?—Yes; and I can explain that the items for tradesmen’s bills -include the wharfing and repairs of Bridges in each year; I can add, -that the statute labour for 1815, 1816, and 1817, amounting to one -hundred pounds each year, which Mr. MᶜAdam has not availed himself of in -their improvements. - -Had the system of management pursued by Mr. MᶜAdam proved the means of -giving employment to labourers in the district, and thereby lessening -the poor’s rates?—Very much so; and they have occasionally employed from -twenty to thirty persons, stout able-bodied men, who otherwise would -have been obliged to have been supported out of the parish rates. - -Have you in consequence had any persons who were able to work who have -been out of employ?—Between twenty and thirty persons have been employed -for the last three months in breaking flints, and in repairing and -improving the roads, who otherwise must have come upon the poor’s rates; -and all the persons who have been enabled to work have found employment -in consequence of this improvement; that has been the means of greatly -relieving our poor’s rates. - -Has the same system been extended to the private roads in that -district?—It has been adopted in some of the private roads of that -district, and with the same beneficial effects. - -Can you state any particulars with regard to the necessity there has -been for carting additional materials for these roads?—At present Mr. -MᶜAdam having lifted the roads, has found more than sufficient material -for the support of those roads. - -What have been the materials that have been used?—The materials that -have been used are flints chiefly. - -During the state of improvement of these roads, have the tolls been -increased or reduced within your trust?—At our last meeting, we agreed, -that at the next letting, the tolls should be reduced from May next, for -the benefit of agriculture in general; and that where two shillings and -eight-pence is now paid, they will have now to pay one shilling; that -with relation to the agricultural interest, will be a reduction of -twenty five pounds per mile. - -Within your own personal observation, have you known any other instance -in which a road has been formed upon the same principles as those -adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam?—I had an opportunity of observing in Sweden that -the roads were more beautiful than any I ever beheld; they are formed in -the same manner as by Mr. MᶜAdam, the materials broken extremely small. -The material is the best in the world, as it is rocks of Granite; and so -well do they understand the necessity of breaking them small, that you -never behold throughout Sweden, a fragment of granite larger than the -size of a walnut, for the purposes of the roads. - -What is the shape of these roads?—To the eye they appear perfectly flat; -but upon trial by the spirit level, there is a slight degree of -convexity. - - - _William Dowdeswell_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -You are a commissioner upon the Epsom trust?—I am. - -How long have you been a commissioner?—About four or five years. - -Have you had any opportunity of observing the comparative state of the -roads since they were put under the care of Mr. MᶜAdam, compared with -that in which they were before?—They were very bad when first put under -Mr. MᶜAdam’s care; they are now, I think, very good. - -Do you attribute this to the improved system of management?—Totally. - -Can you confirm the evidence that has been already given relative to the -expenses of repairing the roads previously to that time and since?—From -the statement made to me by the former surveyor, and from Mr. MᶜAdam’s -statement, I believe the statements delivered in to you are perfectly -correct. Considering the advantage which the public has derived from Mr. -MᶜAdam’s system, I have adopted the same upon the parish roads. I -offered myself to the parish as their surveyor, for the purpose of -carrying that system into execution. I have found employment for all -persons who wanted employment upon the parish roads, assisted -occasionally by persons going to the public roads under Mr. MᶜAdam. - -How long have you adopted this system upon the private roads?—Ever since -October last. - -From that period the whole of the poor have been employed upon the -parish roads?—From that period the whole of the poor that wanted -employment, have been employed upon the parish roads, or upon the public -roads under Mr. MᶜAdam. - -Have those persons been employed by you, by piece-work or by -day-work?—The roads were in such a state, and as I wanted knowledge to -employ by piece-work, I have been compelled to employ them by day-work. - -From your experience are you of opinion that these private roads, made -upon the new system which has been adopted, can be kept in good repair -at a less expense than they formerly cost in their bad state?—At a very -considerable less expense than formerly. - - - - - _Martis, 23º die Martii, 1819._ - - - Mr. _Benjamin Farey_, called in; and Examined. - -You are, I believe, the surveyor of the Whitechapel road?—I am. - -How long have you been in that office?—Nine years. - -In what situation did you find the road, at the time of your undertaking -the management?—I found the Whitechapel road in a dreadful state, partly -from the neglect of the surveyor, in laying on foul and improper -materials. In the autumn of 1809, it was almost impassable. - -Gravel is the only material you have in that neighbourhood?—Gravel is -the only material we find, on or near the spot. - -Is the traffic upon the Whitechapel road so great as to render it -impossible to preserve it in good order with the present materials?—It -is impossible to preserve it in good order at all times, with the -present materials; it is past the art of man. - -Do you consider the traffic upon that road, as greater than upon any -other road out of London?—I believe it is a heavier traffic; there are -not so many light carriages, as on some other roads. - -What species of carriages do you consider do the most injury to your -road?—The carriages that do the most injury, are those with the widest -wheels. - -In what way do you consider that they injure the road?—By their great -weights destroying the materials. - -Are the carriages you allude to, exempt from the payment of tolls?—They -pay much less tolls. The pressure, or crushing of materials by the wide -wheels, is owing to the wheels not running flat. - -Being of a conical shape?—Being of a barrelled and conical shape, and -the middle tire projecting above the others, with rough nails. - -Do you consider, that if those wheels were made of a cylindrical or flat -shape, it would be good policy to grant them any exemption from -tolls?—They would be less injurious for being cylindrical; but whenever -the road was at all out of the level, and the weight came on one edge of -the wheel, the road would be destroyed there. - -Upon the whole, is it your opinion that there are any circumstances -which justify an exemption from toll, on account of the breadth of the -wheels?—I do not see any at all, for I think they are injurious in every -sense, on account of the great weights they carry. - -Do you consider that injury is done to the roads, in consequence of the -use of single shafts in waggons?—Very great. - -In what way?—In consequence of single shafts, the horses follow in one -track, in the centre of the carriage; and the wheels also follow each -other in other tracks, and cut ruts: if there were double shafts, they -would naturally avoid former wheel-tracks, which would be less injurious -to the road. - -Do you consider it therefore desirable to give encouragement to double -shafts?—I do. - -Do you consider the watering of that road in any way injurious?—I -consider that watering that road in summer, is very injurious. - -In what respect?—The water separates the stones, owing to the softening -of the loam, and makes the road spongy and loose. - -At what periods do you consider it injurious to water the road for -laying the dust?—Before May and after August. - -Have you not a practice of sometimes watering in winter, when there is -no dust?—After the most careful sifting of the gravel, a small quantity -of loamy dirt will unavoidably still adhere to the stones, and this -loam, together with a glutinous matter which accumulates in the summer -from the dung and urine of the cattle (which accumulation the summer -watering has a tendency to increase) occasions the wheels to stick to -the materials, in certain states of the road, in spring and autumn, when -it is between wet and dry, particularly in heavy foggy weather, and -after a frost; by which sticking of the wheels, the Whitechapel road is -often, in a short time, dreadfully torn and loosened up; and it is for -remedying this evil, that I have, for more than eight years past, -occasionally watered the road in winter. As soon as the sticking and -tearing up of the materials is observed to have commenced, several -water-carts are employed upon these parts of the road, to wet the loamy -and glutinous matters so much, that they will no longer adhere to the -tire of the wheels, and to allow the wheels and feet of the horses to -force down and again fasten the gravel stones; the traffic, in the -course of four to twenty-four hours after watering, forms such a sludge -on the surface, as can be easily raked off by wooden scrapers, which is -performed as quickly as possible; after which the road is hard and -smooth, the advantages of this practice of occasional winter watering -have been great; and it might, I am of opinion, be adopted with like -advantages on the other entrances into London, or wherever else the -traffic is great, and the gravel stones are at times observed to be torn -up by the sticking of the wheels. - -In what state of the road are you in the habit of laying on fresh -materials?—I prefer laying on materials immediately after the road has -had a scraping, in consequence of there being upon the surface of the -road a small quantity of dirty matter and broken gravel, which then form -a sort of cement for the gravel to fix in. - -You consider it advantageous to lay on the materials when the road is -wet?—I do, because the gravel adheres closer. - -Considering the very great traffic upon the Whitechapel road, is it your -opinion that it would be advantageous to pave any part of that road?—I -think it would be desirable to pave it, within some feet of the footpath -more particularly. - -What breadth from the sides of that road would you consider it desirable -to have paved?—About eleven or twelve feet from the footpath. - -You would consider it a desirable plan to pave the sides of that road in -preference to the centre?—Certainly. - -For what reasons?—If the centre was paved, the light carriages would be -very much annoyed; when the gravel road was good on the sides, the heavy -carriages would go there, and the light carriages would be driven on the -stones from the sides again; if the centre was paved the carters would -be obliged to walk on that road to manage their horses, and would be -considerably annoyed by carriages, horsemen, &c. passing: but if the -sides of that road were paved, the carters would be enabled to walk on -the footpath and to manage their horses without annoyance. - -What is the shape of road which, from your experience, you would give -the preference to?—I would have the road barrelled, and made so as that -it would convey off the water in the severe weather in winter, when the -roads are generally bad. - -Which do you give the preference to, a road with a flat surface, or one -that gradually declines from the centre?—I think a road which gradually -declines from the centre is by far the most preferable, decidedly so. - -What is the degree of the declivity or fall which you would recommend as -the most desirable?—I have paid particular attention to the Whitechapel -road, where it is of the width of 55 feet, and the fall from the centre -to the sides is 12 inches; but to attain this shape, when the road is -worn down, when first covered with gravel, there should be a fall not -exceeding from 16 to 18 inches from the centre to the sides. [_The -witness delivered in a cross section of the road._] - -Is it your opinion that any parliamentary regulation with regard to -stage coaches is necessary for preventing injury to the road?—None. - -You think it desirable that they should remain as at present?—Yes. - -What is the state of the Whitechapel road now, as compared with what it -was some years ago?—During the greater part of the year, it is now one -of the most pleasant roads out of London to travel upon; but from the -gravel being small and brittle, it is soon worn down, by the great -number of heavy weights passing on it. With the small gravel we have in -the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, the road at times breaks up, and -becomes in a bad state; but by the application of water, to stop the -sticking of the wheels, and separate the sludge, in two days they are -found in a good state again. - -Have you any other suggestion to make to the Committee for the -improvement of that road, or of roads in general?—On that road, very -great improvement might be made, in not allowing the wide wheels to pass -by paying so little toll, or to carry so great weights as at present; if -the narrow-wheeled waggons were to use double shafts, they would be less -injurious to the roads: even with narrow-wheeled carts, if the two -fore-horses were double, the shafts not being in their track, it would -be less injurious to the roads. - - - _John Farey_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -What is your profession?—I am a mineral surveyor and engineer. - -Have you turned your attention to the state of the roads in the -different districts of the kingdom?—I have, very particularly. - -Can you furnish the Committee with any information with regard to the -state of those roads, as compared with former years?—I can; I have -particularly attended to that subject; more especially in the time of -the late duke of Bedford, for whom I was an agent. I have since been -employed in nearly every part of England and Wales, and also in -Scotland: and I have statements by me of the various observations I have -made. - -You have been employed under the late duke of Bedford, in the -improvement of the roads in the neighbourhood of Woburn?—In the -management of his roads in Bedfordshire, and of all his rural works. - -Describe what improvement of the main road has taken place under your -direction, in Woburn?—The whole of the line of the road through Woburn, -except about three hundred yards in different places, is on a very -strong alluvial clay: the road passes over naked sand, only for three -hundred yards; this road had been rendered so sandy and so bad, entirely -by bringing soft sand-stone out of Buckinghamshire, at three miles -carriage, upon the average, in Woburn, and some of that stone was -brought almost to the end of Hockliff Town, where the best gravel -abounds. It appeared, from the remains of a number of gravel pits, that -there had been formerly a great deal of gravel dug in Woburn; this -circumstance I mentioned to the duke of Bedford, and he desired search -to be made; and it was ascertained that Woburn might furnish gravel -enough, adequate to any purpose. In consequence of which, his Grace -directed, when the labourers were much in want of employment, that the -poor persons should be employed in preparing a great quantity of gravel -for the purposes of this turnpike road. I undertook to direct the taking -of this gravel out, and to level the siftings and dirt in a uniform -manner, and lay all the soil again upon the top; by which means the land -was in no degree injured, but, in fact, considerably benefited, by being -loosened to that depth. A great many hundreds of cubic yards of -clean-sifted and picked gravel were prepared in numerous square stacks, -and the trustees at a meeting, or else their clerk, were informed, that -this gravel his Grace offered to the road at the mere cost of labour, -without any thing for the gravel, or the temporary damage to the -occupiers of the land. After a long time of hesitation, the trustees or -their clerk returned an answer, that they did not like that mode, -alleging that their surveyor ought to be allowed to dig materials where -and how he liked, and they would not have this gravel: it lay there, -some of it for two or three years, upon the land. In that time a number -of private roads were making of his Grace’s, and a good deal of it was -used on these. The main road became progressively worse and worse, and -the post-office caused the parish to be indicted. I was then surveyor, -and made an application to the trustees, stating the circumstances the -road was under: that road-trust is thirteen miles in length, two of -which, or rather more, are in the parish of Woburn; there is a toll-gate -in the parish which the inhabitants are liable to all the toll of; some -of them, even in going and returning to and from their fields: the -trustees had exacted very strictly _the half_ of the statute duty, -although the parish had, I think, eleven miles of private roads to -maintain. I mention this circumstance to show there was no default on -the part of the parish; and it was afterwards proved, that they had done -their duty; the trustees merely laughed at the application, and said, -that they had nothing to do with it: we must repair the road, and till -we did so, they would not lay out a farthing upon our road. It happened, -very fortunately for the parish of Woburn, that their act was very -nearly out, and they applied for a new one; the parish opposed it, -stating, that the trustees had misapplied the tolls, and praying, that -the part of the road, through Woburn, should be taken out of their -management; the act accordingly directed, that two-thirteenths of the -tolls should be paid over to the parish surveyors of Woburn, and the -trustees were not to call for any statute duty, or interfere in the -management of this part of the road; in consequence of this, the gravel -mentioned, which remained, and great quantities dug on purpose, was used -upon the road, in a sufficient quantity at once, so as to admit of its -settling down together; for it wanted lining nine inches thick, or more, -and the road has since been perfectly good. - - - - - _Jovis, 25º die Martii, 1819._ - - - _John Farey_, Esquire, called in; and Examined, - -In effecting the improvement of the Woburn road, did you make use of any -particular mode of applying the gravel?—The gravel, before the time of -using it, had been very clean-sifted, and separated from the dirt and -sand; the great stones had been picked out, and such of the flints which -were of a long and irregular shape, in order that they might be broken. -After laying the gravel upon the road men were daily employed to rake -the gravel into the ruts, and, at the same time, to carefully pick off -the surface any stones that were either soft or improperly shaped, like -long flints, or too large. - -What is your opinion, in regard to the form the most preferable for -turnpike roads?—A small convexity in the middle. - -Will you state the fall, in any given width of road, that you would -prefer?—Referring to my brother, Mr. Benjamin Farey’s evidence, I agree -with him in wishing that the section which he produced, might be -received by the Committee, as an answer to this question. - -Is there any particular circumstance, in the formation of roads, more -particularly applicable to the immediate neighbourhood of London?—In the -neighbourhood of London, and of several other large towns, the materials -that are to be readily procured, are of too tender and brittle a nature -to endure the wear of the heavy carriages; I therefore am of opinion, -that it would be proper to pave the sides of all the principal entrances -into London; but not the middle, as has been done on the Commercial road -and Borough Stones’-end road. My reasons for preferring the sides being -paved are, that it is next to impossible to compel the carters to keep -upon the pavement in the middle of the road, in too many instances; the -fear of damage, from the swift going carriages, occasions them, either -to draw their carts close to the sides, and walk upon the footpaths, or -what is worse to leave their horses in the middle, beyond a train of -carriages. The sides being paved, would enable one of those trains of -carriages to enter London on one side of the road, and go out of it on -the other, without many occasions to turn out of their tracks: which -keeping nearly to the same tracks, upon a well-paved road, would not be -prejudicial; but on a road formed of gravel is entirely ruinous. - -Do you consider that the plan of rolling the roads in the neighbourhood, -of London, might be advantageously introduced?—The centre of the roads I -should recommend to remain covered with clean-sifted and picked gravel, -having as many as possible of its large, roundish and smooth stones -broken by means of a hammer before the time of laying it on the road, -and that an heavy iron roller, of from four to five feet diameter, and -not less, might be advantageously used in the first settling down of -this gravel; a small roller, such as I believe to have been tried in the -neighbourhood of London, very heavily loaded on its top, might have a -tendency to force the loose gravel before it so as not easily to be -drawn or to mount on to the gravel driven before it without crushing the -flints. I will add, I am of opinion, that a roller could not be -beneficially used upon a road at any other times but after new coating -it with gravel, or after a frost or the sticking of materials to the -wheels may have loosened up the materials. - -Do you consider that the present regulations in regard to exemptions of -tolls to waggons with broad wheels, are justified by sound policy?—In my -opinion, those exemptions have wholly originated in mistaken principles, -and that no wheels wider than about six inches are now, in fact, used -upon the roads, owing to the general and gross deceptions which the -waggoners practise as to the breadth of surface that their wheels roll -on; and that if by any more efficient regulations, the users of broad -wheels were compelled to roll the breadths of surface, which the laws -contemplate, all such wheels would be immediately disused, from the -great additional force of draught which broad wheels occasion during the -average state of all the roads. - -Are you of opinion that any regulation by statute, for substituting -cylindrical for conical wheels, would remedy that evil, or justify an -exemption from toll?—As far as I have observed, there are no conical -wheels in use: all the wheels are rounding or barrelled, and it is -comparatively an immaterial circumstance whether they approach the form -of a cone or a cylinder, while they remain so rounding or barrelled, -because their enormous loads roll on a very small portion of the surface -of all those broad wheels. I think that six-inch cylindrical wheels, or -under, are the most practicable and useful, provided the projecting -nails are most rigidly prohibited, which I believe can never be done but -by a penalty per nail upon the wheelers who put in those nails, and upon -the drivers of the carriages who used such roughly-nailed wheels. - -Are you of opinion that the penalties now fixed by law upon over-weights -are regulated upon good principles?—I consider the whole system as to -penalties upon over-weights generally bad; the present regulations seem -to me framed upon mistaken principles, and are the source of very great -impositions. - -In what manner might the penalties and tolls upon carts and waggons be -best fixed?—It is not practicable very simply or in this way to state -any one scale that would be generally applicable for each breadth of -wheels: below six inches, there should be a rate fixed, which would -apply to ordinary or gate-tolls, and at the weighing machines additional -tolls, which I will call machine-tolls, should be levied upon all -carriages which exceeded the weight, to be regulated in an increasing -scale for each breadth of wheel, so as very greatly to discourage, but -not ruinously to prohibit the occasional carrying of large weights upon -any wheels. - -You are not, then, of opinion that it would be right to do away the -regulations altogether in respect to the weights, and apportion the -tolls only to the number of horses?—By no means. - -Are you acquainted with any particular weighing machine, which obviates -the common objection in regard to impositions by the machine-keepers?—I -am; Mr. Salmon, of Woburn, many years ago, contrived, and had a patent -(which has expired) for a weighing machine, intended to prevent -impositions on the carters: the machine being so contrived as to be -locked up from the machine-keeper, and accessible only to the surveyor, -and so as to exhibit the exact weight by a revolving index, like the -hands of a clock, which are called clock-face indexes; a great number of -these weighing machines have long been in use in the kingdom, some in -the immediate environs of London: by looking at the index of which -machine, the carter, or any passer by, may see that the machine, before -the carriage is drawn upon its weigh-bridge, is in just balance; and all -the time the carriage remains upon the weigh-bridge, the index exhibits -the weight, so that the carter can take it down; and at the same time -the dial-plate is made an abstract of the law, by there being written -against each of the weights fixed, the breadth of the carriage wheel, -and the season to which that weight is applicable at the commencement of -penalties for over-weights. - -Can you inform the Committee of the expense of a machine of this -description?—I cannot; but it is trifling, compared with its advantages, -and an index may be added to a machine upon the common principle, using -weights, placed in a scale; they may be applied to any good machine -already in use. - -Are you of opinion there exists any necessity for limiting the number -of horses in carts and wagons, upon roads where there are -weighing-machines?—I am of opinion not; and even doubt the propriety -of calculating the gate-toll by the number of horses which draw the -carriage. Upon private or parish roads, where no machines are erected, -there seems, however, no other mode of regulating or preventing -excessive loads being carried, to the ruin of the roads, than limiting -the number of horses; but in case of the practice becoming general, -which already prevails in many of the towns in the middle of England, -of there being a weighing-machine, kept by a cottager, at all the -principal entrances at the town, at which he is authorized (by the -local magistrates, I believe,) to collect a small toll for each -weighing, for those who voluntarily apply to him, by which means all -loads passing into and out of such towns, may be, and the greater part -of them are now, weighed; and if this were adopted in the environs of -London, (with the addition of a yard and a warehouse, where a carter -who has inadvertently taken up too large a load, either of dung, -furniture, or other articles, of the weights of which he could not be -accurately informed, may learn the same; and where, upon the result of -this weighing, if it should be discovered that he had much too large a -load, he could there throw off and deposit a part of it, either to -abandon it if of small value like dung, or to take it up from the -warehouse, at a future time,) these entrance weighing-machines would -remove the only valid objection to weighing the loads of manure going -out of London, by which the roads are at present more cut up and -destroyed, than by any other description of carriages. - -Will you have the goodness to state the principle upon which you prefer -that the tolls should be regulated entirely by weights and breadth of -wheels, without regard to the number of horses drawing?—Because nothing -can be more vague or unsatisfactory, than the latter mode of defining -weights, or preventing the carrying of excessive loads, because horses -are of such very different degrees of size, condition and strength, and -the humanity or otherwise of their drivers are so very different; but -more on account of the very great inequality of the different roads of -the kingdom, which this general regulation is now made to apply to, as -to the number and steepness of the hills: the precautions that have been -used, of setting up posts upon the tops and bottoms of those steeps, to -define where extra horses may be used, are entirely become useless, -comparatively, none of the hills now remain, to any length, with so -great a degree of steepness, as to cause it to be worth any one’s while -to keep horses stationed there, for the purpose of assisting heavy -carriages up those hills for hire; still less has it occurred that any -waggoner has spare horses following his waggon, for which he must pay -tolls, in order to avail himself of this useless permission, to use any -number of horses up the steep hills. - -Are you of opinion that stage-coaches require, or would admit of any -regulation with respect to their wheels or weights?—I am clearly of -opinion, that they would not; for in travelling, when it has happened -that I could not get a seat on the front of the coach, I have, through -many long days, carefully attended to the impression made by the wheels -of the carriages upon which I have been travelling (when they have been -among the heaviest loaded coaches) and have compared these impressions -with those of the carts and waggons, particularly broad-wheeled ones, -which we met; from which observations, and other more particular ones, I -am of opinion, that the injury done to the roads by the coaches, -compared with their utility and the tolls they pay, is not such as to -justify any legal restraint on their wheels or weights. - -Are you of opinion, that it would be attended with any advantage to the -roads, to encourage, by any regulation or exemption from tolls, the use -of carriages, varying the length of their axles, so as to prevent their -running in the same tracks?—I am of opinion it would be very beneficial, -and have particularly so stated to the Board of Agriculture, with an -example of the tolls over a new road, which are so regulated in -Derbyshire: in addition to which, some inducement in the abatement of -tolls, might be made to those carriages, which now generally use single -shafts like the farmers’ carts and waggons, on their adopting double -shafts, so that all their horses may draw in pairs; this being -applicable even to three-horse carts, as far as concerns the two -foremost. Stage-coaches, for the reasons here alluded to, as they do all -draw in pairs, and very seldom follow in any previous and deep rut, do -far less damage to the roads than otherwise would happen; their springs -also, and swiftness of motion, contributing, very materially, to -lessening their wear of the road. - -Are you of opinion that any advantage would be derived from the general -commutation of statute duty?—I have long been of opinion that the whole -principle of statute duty, as now regulated, is erroneous; labour in -kind should entirely cease: and the surveyor collect a more equable rate -on all property in his township; the present regulations for calling out -the teams and making of a road rate, are so complicated, as to be above -the capacity of the majority of parish surveyors, who in most or all -instances collect the rates for the turnpike roads as well as the -private roads. - -Will you state your opinion of the statute labour, as it particularly -applies to turnpike roads?—In all the local road acts which I have -examined, one half of the statute duty of each township is apportioned -to each toll road which passes through any part or corner of that -township, which in innumerable instances, is very highly prejudicial; a -due proportion of the fair road rate, as already mentioned, should be -payable to each toll road, where there are more than one in the -township, in proportion (or nearly so, as the quarter sessions might -order) to all the lengths of all the roads within the township which it -contributes to repair. - -From your observation of the different roads throughout the kingdom, do -you think that important advantages would be derived from their being -placed under skilful surveyors, acting for large districts?—At present, -the separate trusts are so exceedingly different in extent, many of them -extending only three, four and five miles, while others have fifty or a -hundred miles of road under their trusts, that it seems impracticable, -in many trusts, to employ a very skilful and competent surveyor, on -account of the great and unnecessary expense that would be incurred on -the short lengths of road; but if the legislature should see it right to -enact the appointment of thoroughly competent district surveyors, who -might have the superintendence and control, to a defined extent, over -the officers of the local trustees of turnpike roads, as well as over -the surveyors of the parish roads within their districts, the most -important advantages would result. - -Do you not think great inconvenience arises from the great numbers -generally found forming commissioners of turnpike trusts?—From my own -experience, I cannot say that I have seen any evil from the great number -of trustees, on the contrary, the greatest mismanagement that I have -seen in any roads, has arisen from the clergymen of the districts being -almost the only acting trustees; the greatest and most active land -owners frequently having no share in such trusts: the late duke of -Bedford, for instance, not being a trustee in the vicinity of Woburn for -many years after he took an active part in improving the district. - - - _James Walker_, Esq. called in; and Examined. - -You are a civil engineer?—I am. - -In the course of your experience have you turned your attention to the -making and repairing of roads?—I have been employed in the making and -repairing of several roads, and the regulation of others. - -In what part of the kingdom have you been employed, and what -observations have occurred to you upon this subject?—The whole of the -works executed under the Commercial Road, the East India Road, the -Barking Road, and the Tilbury Road Acts, have been under my direction, -as well as the roads made under the Bridge and Dock Companies, for which -I have been engineer. The Commercial Road, which is between the West -India Docks and London is referred to in the report of a former -Committee on highways, as particularly well fitted for heavy traffic; -that road is seventy feet wide, and is divided into two footways, each -ten feet, and a carriage road fifty feet wide, of which twenty feet in -the middle is paved with granite. I have a section of the form of this -road (No. 1, in the annexed plan.) The East India Dock branch of the -Commercial Road is also seventy feet wide, ten feet of which is paved -with granite. I have prepared also a section of that road (No. 2, in the -plan.) The traffic upon the Commercial Road, both up and down, is very -great, and necessarily required a width of paving sufficient for two -carriages to pass upon it. I am quite sure that the expense of this road -would have been very much greater, probably much more than doubled if it -had not been paved, and that the carriage of goods would also here been -much more expensive; indeed it would have been next to impossible to -have carried the present loads upon a gravelled road. The road has been -paved for about sixteen years, and the expense of supporting it has been -small, although the stage-coaches generally, as well as almost all the -carts and waggons, go upon it; while the expense of the gravelled part -has been comparatively great. During the thirteen years that the East -India Dock branch has been paved, the paving has not cost 20_l._ in -repairs, although the waggons, each weighing about five tons, with the -whole of the East India produce, which is brought from the docks by -land, have passed all that time in one track upon it, and a great deal -of heavy country traffic for the last eight years, when a communication -was formed with the county of Essex. The advantage of paving part of a -road where the traffic is great, and the materials of making roads bad -or expensive, is not confined to improving the conveyance for heavy -goods and reducing the horses’ labour; but as the paving is always -preferred for heavy carriages, the sides of a road are left for light -carriages, and are kept in much better repair than otherwise they could -possibly be. It is not, I am sure, overstating the advantage of the -paving, but rather otherwise, to say, that taking the year through, two -horses will do more work, with the same labour to themselves, upon a -paved road than three upon a good gravelled road, if the traffic upon -the gravelled road is at all considerable, and if the effect of this, in -point of expense, is brought into figures, the saving of the expense of -carriage will be found to be very great when compared with the cost of -the paving. If the annual tonnage upon the Commercial Road is taken at -250,000 tons, and at the rate of only 3_s._ per ton from the Docks, it -could not upon a gravelled road be done under 4_s._ 6_d._ say however -4_s._ or 1_s._ per ton difference, making a saving of 12,500_l._, or -nearly the whole expense of the paving in one year. I think I am under -the mark in all these figures, and I am convinced therefore that the -introduction of paving would, in many cases, be productive of great -advantage, by improving the gravel road, reducing the expense of -repairs, and causing a saving of horses’ labour much beyond what there -is, I believe, any idea of. The expense of a ton of Aberdeen granite -paving-stones laid in London, or in any similar situation, including -laying, and every expense, is about 25_s._; the cost of the same weight -of gravel is from 3_s._ 6_d._ to 5_s._ The cost of granite paving, 9 -inches deep, is from 8_s._ 6_d._ to 10_s._ 6_d._ per superficial yard, -or from 750_l._ to 920_l._ per mile for every yard in width. Guernsey -granite is harder and more durable than Aberdeen granite, but is more -expensive by about 10 per cent. and I think is this much better. Some -stone of very good quality from near Greenock, has been used lately upon -the Commercial Road, it is cheaper than Aberdeen, and appears to be very -durable. The requisites for forming a good paving are to have the stones -properly squared and shaped, not as wedges, but nearly as rectangular -prisms; to sort them into classes according to their sizes, so as to -prevent unequal sinking, which is always the effect of stones, or rows -of stones, of unequal sizes being mixed together; to have a foundation -properly consolidated before the road is begun to be paved, and to have -the stones laid with a close joint, the courses being kept at right -angles from the direction of the sides, and in perfectly straight lines, -the joints carefully broken, that is, so that the joint between two -stones in any one course shall not be in a line with, or opposite to a -joint in any of the two courses adjoining. After the stones are laid -they are to be well rammed, and such of the stones as appear to ram -loose, should be taken out and replaced by others; after this the joints -are to be filled with fine gravel, and if it can be done conveniently, -the stability of the work will be increased by well watering at night -the part that has been done during the day, and ramming it over again -next morning. The surface of the pavement is then to be covered with an -inch or so of fine gravel, that the joints may be always kept full, and -that the wheels may not come in contact with the stones while they are -at all loose in their places. Attention to these points will very much -increase both the smoothness and durability of the paving. I have found -great advantage from filling up, or, as it is called, grouting the -joints with lime-water, which finds its way into the gravel between and -under the stones, and forms the whole into a solid concreted mass. The -purpose served by the lime might also be effectually answered by mixing -a little of the borings or chippings of iron, or small scraps of iron -hoop, with the gravel used in filling up the joints of the paving. The -water would very soon create, an oxide of iron, and form the gravel into -a species of rock. I have seen a piece of rusty hoop taken from under -water, to which the gravel had so connected itself, for four or five -inches round the hoop, as not to be separated without a smart blow of a -hammer. And the cast-iron pipes which are laid in moist gravel soon -exhibit the same tendency. - -It has occurred to me, as I stated to the chairman of this honourable -Committee some weeks since, that considerable improvement would be found -from paving the sides of a road, upon which the heavy traffic is great, -in both directions, and leaving the middle for light carriages, the -carmen walking upon the footpaths or sides of the road, would then be -close to their horses, without interrupting, or being in danger of -accidents from light carriages, which is the case when they are driving -upon the middle of the road; and the unpaved part being in the middle or -highest part of the road, would be more easily kept in good repair. I -have prepared a section of a road formed in this way (No. 3 in the -plan), but unless the heavy traffic in both directions is great, one -width (say ten or twelve feet, if very well paved,) will be found -sufficient; and in this case, I think the paving ought to be in the -middle of the road. The width of many of the present roads is, besides, -such, that ten or twelve feet can be spared for paving, while twice that -width would leave too little for the gravelled part. Although the first -cost of paving is so great, I do not think that any other plan can be -adopted to good and so cheap in those places where the materials got in -the neighbourhood are not sufficient for supporting the roads. A coating -of whinstone is, for instance, more durable than the gravel with which -the roads round London are made and repaired; but much less so than -paving; although the freight and carriage of the whinstone, and of the -paving-stones, which form the principal items of the expense, are nearly -the same. Scotch whinstone, or the granite rubble (that is, rough -chippings of granite,) could not, I should think, be delivered into -barges in the river, at less than from 14_s._ to 15_s._ per ton, the -freight alone being from 11_s._ to 12_s._, while the price of Aberdeen -granite, in the same situation, is only from 19_s._ to 21_s._ and 22_s._ -Maidstone ragstone in the rubble state, costs about 7_s._ per ton: it is -a limestone, and much less durable than the whin. The carriage from the -river to the road, of all these, is of course the same. Flint, again, is -so much less durable than whin, that it will not bear the expense of -carriage (which may be taken at from 1_s._ 6_d._ to 2_s._ per ton per -mile) from any distance, to make it preferable to the gravel, or paving, -in point of cost, for the roads near London. A double iron rail-road, to -suit the London waggons, which some have recommended, would cost about -4,500_l._ per mile, and would be fitted for waggons only of one precise -width, and for waggons or heavy carts only; while, from the difficulty -of crossing it, it would form rather an obstacle to light carriages. -Blocks of Aberdeen granite, twelve inches wide and fifteen inches deep, -laid in the way of the wheels (as recommended by others,) would be -nearly as expensive; and the eight joints, which would be formed between -the stone and the gravel, by four rows of stone, would be found -extremely troublesome and inconvenient. Both these substitutes for -paving, therefore, though equally expensive as paving, have peculiar -disadvantages; and they have this besides, which is common to them both, -that they make no provision for preventing the great wear upon gravelled -roads, which is caused by the horses’ feet, particularly if (as is the -case in a rail-road) they are confined in one track. - -Attention in the forming and repairing of roads, will in all cases do -much to compensate for the inferiority of the material used for that -purpose, of which the improvements in the general state of the highways -within the last twenty years affords the best proof. To form the road -upon a good foundation, and to keep the surface clear of water after it -is formed, are the two most essential points towards having the best -roads possible, upon a given country, and with given materials. For -obtaining the first of these objects, it is essential that the line for -the road be taken so that the foundation can be kept dry either by -avoiding low ground by raising the surface of the road above the level -of the ground on each side of it, or by drawing off the water by means -of side drains. The other object, viz. that of clearing the road of -water, is best secured by selecting a course for the road which is not -horizontally level, so that the surface of the road may in its -longitudinal section, form in some degree an inclined plane; and when -this cannot be obtained, owing to the extreme flatness of the country, -an artificial inclination may generally be made. When a road is so -formed, every wheel-track that is made, being in the line of the -inclination, becomes a channel for carrying off the water, much more -effectually than can be done by a curvature in the cross section or rise -in the middle of the road, without the danger, or other disadvantages -which necessarily attend the rounding a road much in the middle. I -consider a fall of about one inch and a half in ten feet, to be a -minimum in this case, if it is attainable without a great deal of extra -expense. It is in the knowledge of the above points, and of the -application of them in practice, that what may be called the science of -road-making consists, as the observations apply in every case. When a -road is to be formed, accurate sections of the rises and falls of the -ground should always be taken, in the same way as is done for a canal, -before the line is determined, or the levels of the road fixed upon, and -when the course and levels of the road are laid down, the derail of the -work ought to be particularly explained by a specification and plan, -describing the manner in which each particular length is to be formed -and completed. - -The quantity of materials necessary to form the road depends so much -upon the soil and the nature of the materials themselves, that it is -impossible to lay down any general rules for them. The thickness ought -to be such that the greatest weight will not affect more than the -surface of the shell, and it is for this purpose chiefly, that thickness -is required, in order to spread the weight which comes upon a small part -only of the road over a large portion of the foundation. When the ground -is very soft, trees, bavins or bushes, are applied to answer the same -purpose, and to carry off the water previous to the materials of the -road being so consolidated as to form a solid body, and to be impervious -to water. Bushes are, however, not advisable to be used, unless they are -so low as always to be completely moist. When they are dry and excluded -from the air they decay in a very few years, and produce a sinking in -place of preserving the road; a thickness of chalk is useful for the -same purpose in cases where bushes are improper, the chalk mixing with -the gravel or stones becomes concreted, and presents a larger surface to -the pressure. If the material for making the roads is gravel, the common -way is to lay it as it comes from the pit, excepting the upper foot, or -18 inches or so, which is screened; but if whin or other stone is to be -used, the size of the pieces into which it is broken should decrease as -we approach the surface, the superficial coating not exceeding a cube -from 1 inch to 1½ inch. If the foundation is bad, breaking the bottom -stone into small pieces is expensive and injurious, upon the principle I -have above described, and also for the same reason that an arch formed -of whole bricks or of deep stones is to be preferred to one of the same -materials broken into smaller pieces, for in some counties the materials -will admit of the foundation of the road being considered as of the -nature of a flat arch, as well as of being supported by the strata -directly under it: but the error in laying the stone in large pieces -upon the surface is more common and more injurious. In all cases, -whether the material is gravel or hard stone, the interstices between -the pieces should be filled up solid with smaller pieces, and the -finishing made by a thin covering of very small pieces, or road-sand or -rubbish, for those interstices must be filled up before the road becomes -solid, either in this way or by a portion of the materials of the road -being ground down, which last mode occasions a waste of the material, -and keeps the road unnecessarily heavy and loose. This observation -applies to the repairing as well as the original making of roads, and -the effect of this covering, or as it is called in the country, blinding -the loose stones, is so evident, that I have often wondered to see so -little attention paid to it. If the material is soft, as some limestone, -this is less necessary, and the quantity ought never to be more than is -just sufficient for the purpose I have described. In the original making -or effectually repairing of a road, it is, I think, best that the whole -of the proposed thickness be laid on at once, for the sake of the road -as well as of the traveller; the materials of the road then form a more -solid compact mass than when they are laid in thin strata, at different -times, for the same reason that a deep arch of uniform materials is -preferable to a number of separate rings. Though I state that an -inclination in the longitudinal section of the road is always desirable -for the purpose of clearing it of water, I am not of the opinion of -those who recommend the road to be made and kept flat or level in its -cross section. The variety of opinions and practice upon this point are -very great; both extremes appear to me to be bad. A road much rounded is -dangerous, particularly if the cross section approaches towards the -segment of a circle, the slope in the case not being uniform, but -increasing rapidly from the nature of the curve, as we depart from the -middle or vertical line. The over rounding of roads is also injurious to -them, by either confining the heavy carriages to one track in the crown -of the road, or if they go upon the sides, by the great wear they -produce, from their constant tendency to move down the inclined plane, -owing to the angle which the surface of the road and the line of gravity -of the load form with each other, and as this tendency is perpendicular -to the line of draught, the labour of the horse and the wear of the -carriage wheels, are both much increased by it. - -It is not altogether foreign to the subject to notice here, the error of -forming the inclination of the roadway upon bridges, in the direction of -their length, or across the river, from a section of a curve for the -whole length, rather than from two lines joined together by a curve, as -I have recommended for the cross section of a road. It is to this cause -that the very heavy pull is owing, which must have been noticed in just -getting upon a bridge, which decreases as we advance towards the middle -of the bridge, and which would not have been so much felt, had it been -spread regularly over the whole length (see No. 5, in the plan.) - -The disadvantages of a flat road again are, that even if it is supposed -to continue so, it is bad in principle, by doing away the tendency which -a road ought to have, in every direction, to clear itself of water; but -as the greatest wear will always be in the middle of the road, a level -or flat road will very soon be concave; the middle of the road then -becomes the watercourse, and the consequence, if the road is upon level -ground, is, that the water and mud lie upon it, and injure the -foundation and materials; or, if otherwise, that the stones or materials -of the road are washed bare, and liable to be loosened and thrown up by -the wheels coming into contact with their exposed angular surfaces. Many -of the roads in the country afford examples of this, particularly after -heavy rains, and if the country is at all hilly. - -The best form for a road, in order to avoid those evils, is,—in my -opinion, to form it, and to keep it with just a sufficient rise towards -the middle, to incline the water towards the sides; and in place of -making the whole width the section of one curve, to form it by two -straight lines, forming inclined planes, and joined by a curve towards -the middle. I have prepared a section of a road in the manner I have -described (No. 4.) and as the lines, excepting at the centre, are -straight, the section may be made to suit almost any greater or less -width, by merely extending them. The section is taken nearly from a part -of a road made under my direction in the country. The dotted line drawn -upon it shows the form I alluded to when speaking of the circular road -that ought to be avoided. I have seen ridges formed in what I thought -well formed land, much after what I would recommend for the form of a -road. The object of forming the land into ridges, raised a little in the -middle, is the same as that of raising the middle of a road to prevent -the water from settling upon it, and what is sufficient for the ploughed -land is certainly enough for a road. If the road is of good stone, four -to five inches rise in ten feet is sufficient, gravel, and other -inferior material, will allow a little more. In this section it may be -worth while to notice the situation of the hedge and ditch, or rill on -each side of the road, a more common, but I think a more dangerous and -worse way, is to form the ditch close to the road, and to plant the -quick upon a raised bank beyond it. I have dotted this mode also upon -the section. The advantage of having the hedge next the road, consists -in its greater safety to the traveller, particularly if a ditch of any -considerable depth is necessary, and in the hedge being supported in its -growth from the ground under the road, without drawing upon the farmer’s -side of the ditch; and it is I believe, this last advantage, which has -led the author of an article in the Edinburgh Farmer’s Magazine, with -whom I am acquainted, to make nearly the same observations. In a length -of road, made eight or ten years since, over a marsh, partly a bog, -considerably under high water, where, from the level of the ground, and -of the drainage, the ditches were obliged to be deep and wide, and -therefore dangerous; I ordered some cuttings of willow to be stuck into -the roadside of the ditch. In about two years they formed a blind to the -ditch, and are now so thick and strong as to be a complete security from -all danger. I may here take the liberty to say, that nothing is more -injurious to roads than the permitting high hedges and plantations near -them, their effect in keeping the rain suspended and dripping upon the -road longer than otherwise it would, and in preventing the air and sun -from drying the roads, is most destructive and very general: and as the -Commissioners or principal men of the district are often the greatest -offenders in this respect, the evil is one in which both the enactments -and the application of them require the strictest attention and -impartiality. After a road is properly made, the comfort of the -traveller and the principle of economy on the part of the road-trust, -both demand that it be not allowed to get much out of repair; the adage -of “a stitch in time,” applies particularly to the repairing of roads, -and though not universally practised, is so well known, that it is, I -presume, unnecessary to state reasons, for what no one acquainted with -the subject at all doubts. The best season for repairing roads is, I -think, the spring or very early in the summer, when the weather is -likely neither to be very wet nor dry, for both of these extremes -prevent the materials from consolidating, and therefore cause a waste of -them, and at the same time, either a heavy or a dusty road; but if done -at the time I have recommended, the roads are left in good state for the -summer, and become consolidated and hard to resist the work of the -ensuing winter. - -When I remarked the great improvement in many of the highways during the -last twenty years, I by no means meant to say that they are not still -capable of much greater, or that many of them have not been much -neglected. In many districts this is notoriously the case, and when the -materials are the best, the roads are frequently the worst. There is no -road round London upon which there is more heavy country traffic, than -the first stage of the great Essex or Mile End road; and owing to the -well directed attention of the chairman of the commissioners, and of -their surveyor, there are few better roads any where, excepting in very -wet heavy weather. Indeed I do not think it possible to do much, if any -thing, in improving the superintendance and repair of that road, with -the material at present in use; for the nature of which, as well as for -the exclusion of air and sun by buildings, proper allowance ought to be -made in judging of the state of the roads near London, and when this is -done, and the great wear considered, we may find that in very many -cases, there is but little cause to find fault, and much room for -commendation. The traffic upon the Mile End road is however too much for -a gravelled road, and the expanse for repair for the first three miles -is consequently very great. The same remarks as to conduct and -attention, are merited by the commissioners of other districts, and -their gratuitous services entitle them to the thanks of the public; -while in some parts of the kingdom, including Scotland, where the -material is the very best, the roads are often in the worst condition, -and the most unpleasant to travel upon. The stone is put in large pieces -upon the road, without any covering or mixture of smaller material, and -is left to take the chance of being broke and formed into a solid, or of -tumbling loose upon the road. When a track is once formed in this -stone-heap, it is not to be expected that the horses will be easily made -to move out of it; and unless the thoroughfare is considerable, the road -in use consists sometimes for a long period, of the two deep wheel -tracks, which are always filled with water during the winter, and of the -horse’s path between them, the other parts being covered with a body of -loose stones, and rendered absolutely useless. These observations apply -to some lengths of the most frequented highways, but are more -particularly applicable to the cross roads and the parish roads. I had -the opportunity of seeing the roads in the West Highlands last autumn; -they are formed with judgement, and kept in good repair. - -When the highways in a county are under the management of trustees, it -is common to divide them, and to assign a particular length to the -trustees who live near it, without employing any person in the capacity -of a surveyor. When this is the case, the state of repair depends much -upon the observation and attention of the trustee; and the change in the -state of the road often marks out the change of superintendence. A -relative of mine has given up a good deal of his time and attention to a -part of the roads in Stirlingshire, of which he is one of the trustees: -no professional man could, perhaps, do the business better; and the -effect of this attention is very visible. Instances of the same kind are -frequent, but it is not to be expected that trustees generally can both -understand, and have so great a relish for serving the public, as that -the detail of the repairs of roads, if imposed upon them, will be always -executed with the attention they require. - -The case of parish roads is still worse, where the inhabitants are, -without much regard to their habits of life, obliged in their turns to -serve the annual office of surveyor of the highways. If such persons -mean to signalize themselves during their being in office, the first -step is often to undo what their predecessor has done, or has not -perfected; and the love of self and of friends determines them to make -sure while they have it in their power, that some favoured roads or -lanes are put into proper order. If the surveyor is, on the contrary, an -unwilling officer, or if the attention to his own affairs prevents him -giving his time to the duties of the office, he avoids the fine by -accepting the charge, pays the bills and wages without much knowledge of -their nature or accuracy, and one of the labourers becomes, in fact, the -road-surveyor; but in every case of annual nominations there is this -evil, that so soon as the surveyor has, by a year’s apprenticeship, -begun to know something of the nature of the business, his place is -filled by another, who comes in for the same time to take lessons at the -expense of the parish. Thus, while many simple trades require, by law, -an apprenticeship of seven years, before the person is thought qualified -to practise with his own capital, the road-surveyor is supposed fit, the -very hour he is named, for an office which requires at least as much -understanding and experience as the average of trades, and in which he -has the capital of all the parish to speculate with. For these reasons, -I have always been convinced of the propriety of an intelligent -accountable officer in each district, but I do not see to whom he can be -responsible with so great propriety, or in other words, in whom the -chief control can be so well vested, as in the gentlemen who live in the -county, who are almost daily witnesses of what is doing, and are chiefly -interested in keeping down the expenses, at the same time having their -roads in good repair. - -Whether a board of roads, appointed by parliament, meeting once every -year, and forming a report of the expense and state of the roads in each -county, to be presented to parliament, with such observations as present -themselves, as to improvements, or otherwise, taken from general surveys -made by persons appointed by them, would be useful, by exciting a spirit -of emulation and attention on the part of the different trusts, every -member of this honourable Committee is as able, and perhaps more able, -to give a disinterested judgment than I am; for I conclude, that if -surveys are to be made, engineers will think they have some chance of -being selected as the most proper persons to be employed on the -occasion, under the board. The state of the roads continue to improve -throughout the kingdom. Every friend to his country will be pleased, if -the march of this improvement can be accelerated by a moderate reform, -and carried into remote corners and parishes, where it appears most to -be wanted; but I much question the propriety of such a revolution as -would lessen the interest, which, in their present situation, the -commissioners ought to feel in the repair of their roads, and the -consequence which the appointment tends to give them. - -If country road-surveyors are appointed throughout the kingdom, the -nomination might be with the commissioners of the county, and if -friendship or local interest is supposed to operate too far, the -nomination, or the examination previous to election, or the _veto_ after -it, might be with the central or other board, the members of which might -be supposed not to be connected with the individual, in the same way as -pilots and the masters of men of war are examined by the elder brethren -of the Trinity House. And sub-surveyors or surveyors of parishes, might -in the same manner be appointed, or undergo an examination by the county -commissioners and county surveyor, to qualify them to be elected; for it -is to be lamented, that in cases where parishes have, from the reasons I -have mentioned, made the office of road-surveyors permanent, with a -salary: the election being popular, has fallen, not upon the candidate -who was really the best qualified, but probably upon some honest decayed -tradesman, who, having proved himself unable to manage his own business, -which he ought to have known the best, has thereby, and by his long -residence, qualified himself for managing a public business, of which he -probably knows nothing, but whether he does, or does not, rarely enters -into the consideration of the majority of the voters. - - -In what manner do you think the extra toll for overweight ought to be -regulated; whether by the weight, or by the number of horses used, -without regard to the weight?—I think by the weight most certainly; -unless the object is to discourage the breed of small horses, and -encourage the over-loading and straining, of horses of all sizes. The -number of horses is a very imperfect measure, or rather no measure at -all of the injury done to the roads; for a load of three tons, drawn by -one horse, injures the road as much, to say the least of it, as if two -horses were used. It is not out of place to mention the extreme -disproportion between the penalties for overweight, and the injuries -which they are meant to compensate for, or to prevent; particularly when -this over-loading is the effect of ignorance, which is almost always the -case. When the tolls are in the hands of trustees, the penalty is almost -always reduced; a proof that that fixed by law is exorbitant; but when -the tolls are farmed, and the trustees do not reserve the power of -mitigating the penalty, the poor carman has less chance of being saved -perhaps from ruin. - - - - - _Jovis, 1º die Aprilis, 1819._ - - - Mr. _James Dean_, called in; and Examined. - -What is your profession?—I am a land agent and civil engineer, and am -occasionally employed to solicit bills in parliament as an agent. - -Where do you reside?—I reside in London about half the year, and the -other half in Devonshire. - -As an engineer, have you had the means of becoming acquainted with the -roads of the kingdom?—About twenty years since, I had the appointment of -surveyor to the trustees of the turnpike roads from Oxford to Henley -upon Thames, and from Dorchester to Abingdon, in Berkshire; since then I -have been employed about several roads in Devonshire and Cornwall, and, -latterly, in surveying and reporting on an extensive district of the -roads in Somersetshire. - -From the observations which you have made in this employment, are you -able to give the Committee any information as to the best mode of -improving the roads of the kingdom generally?—The first and most obvious -improvement is to shorten distances; but even that must be governed by -circumstances often of a local nature; a sound foundation, and the -contiguity of good stone or gravel to a road, should not be overlooked -in choosing a new line, or departing from an old one. In forming a new -line in a level country, the transverse section should approach as near -as possible to the form of the accompanying sketch No. 1, and in a hilly -country to that of No. 2; in the former, the water from one half the -road would be carried into a ditch on the field side, and that of the -other half into a ditch between the footpath and hedge-bank. When it is -necessary to form a road on the side of a hill, the ditch should be on -the higher side of the road, where it will receive the water falling -from the high ground, and so keep the foundation of the road dry. I have -figured the breadths of a good average turnpike road on sketch No. 1, -but the breadth will frequently depend upon circumstances of a local -nature. Near to great towns, it would be highly advantageous if the -centre of the road, for about twelve feet in width, were to be paved -with hard well-squared stones, nine inches deep, and the sides made with -hard rubble stones or gravel. I need scarcely mention, that in applying -the materials to a new line of road, the stones should be broken into -pieces of an uniform size, as near as may be; that the larger should be -laid of nearly an equal depth over the whole surface of the road, and -the smaller, mixed with gravel, should be placed upon them. The -repairing of roads should be conducted in the same manner as far as it -is practicable; but, after all, the only sure way of getting good roads -is, for the trustees to employ men of education and science as their -surveyors. In a few instances, where this has been done, the best -consequences have resulted, and in no case is if more conspicuous than -in the neighbourhood of Bristol, where Mr. MᶜAdam is the surveyor. - -Will not a consequent impediment arise to the employment of men of -education and of superior ability as surveyors, from the smallness of -the funds upon small trusts or districts?—For that reason, I would -recommend the consolidation of the several trusts, in each county, into -one general trust, under the authority of one general act of parliament, -leaving the adoption, however, of the acts to the discretion of the -several trusts respectively in each county, making it compulsory only on -the minority, at the expiration of a time to be limited, when a majority -in amount of toll shall call for its adoption, and after insertion in -the provincial papers and London Gazette. - -Supposing parliament to adopt your suggestion as to the passing of such -an act, and supposing that afterwards the trusts of none of the counties -should adopt it as a general trust, would there be any objection to the -act being so framed as to admit of adoption by such of the trusts as -might prefer it to incurring the expense of a renewal of their then -local acts?—I do not think there would be any well founded objection to -an act made capable of being so applied; and I am of opinion, that the -making it optional on trustees to adopt it or not, would render the -measure extremely popular, and in the end be highly beneficial to the -country. - -Have you not lately prepared a bill for the trustees of an extensive -trust in Somersetshire, including in it nearly all the improvements -which you would recommend to be introduced into a general turnpike -act?—I have prepared such a bill; and it was intended that the same -should have been brought before parliament in the present session, but -the clerk to the trustees having omitted to put the notice required by -the standing orders of parliament upon the sessions-house door, at the -Michaelmas sessions, the trustees resolved to defer presenting their -petition until the next session. - -In what respect does the bill which you have prepared differ from the -generality of local turnpike acts?—Many of the clauses of the bill are -not so remarkable for originality, as their combination is calculated to -produce extensive benefit to the country, by conferring larger powers -than have heretofore been given to any one body of trustees; among -others, it empowers the trustees to appoint committees, and make -bye-laws; it binds them to provide a fund for buying up outstanding -securities; and to pay off the further sums proposed to be raised under -the new act, within the term of the act; the tolls on wheel carriages -are made referrible to the breadth of the fellies, and description of -wheel, and to the weight drawn, rather than to the number of horses, -drawing, and are founded on a statement which I had the honour of -delivering to a Committee of the House of Commons in 1809. The standing -orders of parliament require that on or before the 30th of September -next, preceding any application to parliament for any Turnpike Act, a -plan &c. of the roads proposed to be made or altered, shall be deposited -with the clerk of the peace. It often happens, that in the Committee -alterations are made in the proposed line, when the plan deposited -becomes mere waste paper; the seventy sixth clause of this bill provides -for the depositing of a plan, &c. last determined upon, with the clerk -of the peace, signed by the Speaker, and being an authentic document can -be referred to with safety. The bill also provides for the making of -commodious footpaths by the sides of the roads. And as the paving, -cleansing, lighting, watching, &c. of the liberty or borough of * * * * -is placed in the trustees of the roads, the trustees are empowered to -rate the inhabitants, and are also empowered to light the streets, &c. -with gas, and to allow gas to be taken from their mains for the lighting -of private dwellings, manufactories, &c.; so that in all probability the -latter indulgence may pay the greater part, if not the whole, of the -expense of lighting the public lamps. The ninety-third clause empowers -the trustees to pave, light and watch any town, village or place -through, which the roads pass, upon application of two-thirds of the -inhabitants, and is in my view extremely important. - -Have you any further suggestions to offer to the Committee that would -tend to the improvement of the roads, or the laws relating to them?—Upon -the subject of turnpike roads, and of wheel-carriages generally, I am of -opinion that such a spirit of improvement has gone forth as, with the -assistance of judicious legislative enactments, will in a few years -carry both to a state of very great perfection; but I cannot close these -remarks without observing on the injurious effect which the large fees -paid to the higher officers of both houses of parliament has upon the -growing improvements of the country, by preventing a recurrence to -parliament to remove obstacles which the prejudice of some will not, and -the incapacity of others cannot permit. The periodical expenses of -renewing turnpike acts is really enormous, when it is considered that -between the fees of parliament on the one hand, and a two month’s -residence in London of the country solicitor, to manage the business, -besides a parliamentary agent in town to assist him, four or five -hundred pounds are soon swallowed up; but I also feel it right to -suggest, that if parliament would allow affidavits to be made before two -magistrates in the county, of the notices directed by the standing -orders of parliament, having been duly given, of plans and of books of -reference being lodged with the clerk of the peace, and of the names of -the persons assenting to, dissenting from, or being neuter in respect of -any proposed new road, the solicitor need not remain in town more than -three days, and the expenses, except in cases of opposition, need not -exceed 200_l._ - -Would you, as a parliamentary agent, undertake to prepare and conduct an -ordinary road bill through parliament for 200_l._, to include all -expenses, where there is no opposition?—I would undertake any number at -that sum, provided the proofs before mentioned were admitted to be made -by affidavit in the county, in like manner as the proofs are now given -to facilitate the passing of inclosure bills. - - - - - _Jovis, 6º die Maii, 1819._ - - - _Thomas Telford_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -You are, I believe, a civil engineer? - -Yes, I am. - -The roads which have been formed by direction of the Parliamentary -Commissioners for the Holyhead road, and under your management, having -been described to this Committee as being very perfect, will you have -the goodness to state your opinion as to the present condition of the -different turnpike roads of the kingdom, and what improvements you would -recommend in their direction and management. In the first place, state -to the Committee in what respect you consider the roads of the kingdom -at present to be defective, either in their formation or management?— - -With regard to the roads in England and Wales, they are in general very -defective, both as to their direction and inclinations, they are -frequently carried over hills, which might be avoided by passing along -the adjacent valleys; at present the inclinations are inconveniently -steep, and long continued. I might instance many principal lines, over -which I have had frequent occasion to travel: I shall select the great -road from Holyhead, through North Wales to Shrewsbury; and from thence -by Birmingham and Coventry to London. On the Welsh portion of it, those -parts which have been improved under the direction of the Parliamentary -Commissioners for the Holyhead road, the inclinations were formerly (in -many instances) as much as one in six, seven, eight, nine, and ten, the -width at the same time frequently not exceeding twelve feet, without -protection on the lower side, and the roadway itself of improper -construction. The improvements which have lately been made in North -Wales, I beg leave to submit as models for roads through hilly -countries, although these improvements have been made through the most -difficult and precipitous district of that country, the longitudinal -inclinations are in general less than one in thirty; in one instance, -for a considerable distance, there was no avoiding one in twenty-two, -and in another, for about two hundred yards, one in seventeen; but in -these two cases, the surface of the roadway being made peculiarly smooth -and hard, no inconvenience is experienced by wheeled carriages. On flat -ground, the breadth of the roadway is thirty-two feet, where there is -side cutting not exceeding three feet, the breadth is twenty-eight, and -along any steep ground and precipices, it is twenty-two, all clear -within the fences; the sides are protected by stone walls, breast and -retaining walls and parapets; great pains have been bestowed on the -cross drains, also the draining the ground, and likewise in constructing -firm and substantial foundations for the metalled part of the roadway. -From Shrewsbury upwards, the road at present is encumbered with many -hills, all of which might be avoided, or much improved. There is a very -long one between Shrewsbury and Heygate, several between that point and -Shiffnal, two between Shiffnal and Wolverhampton, one between -Wolverhampton and Birmingham, viz. at Wednesbury, &c. Maiden Hill, -between Birmingham and Coventry; Braunston Hill, between Dunchurch and -Daventry; a continued succession of hills between Daventry and -Towcester; afterwards the well-known Brickhill and Hockliffe hills, -besides the very circuitous and imperfect road between South Mims and -Barnet. - -Another instance I would beg leave to mention to the Committee, is the -road between the towns of Shrewsbury and Worcester, on the way to Bath, -which consists of nearly a succession of very high and inconveniently -steep hills, although very easy inclinations might be obtained by -passing along the side of the river Severn. - -I have mentioned these two instances as examples of the present -imperfections of main roads, and it is quite evident they might all be -readily avoided by lines of new road, easily to be accomplished. These, -I presume, the Committee will admit are sufficient to show the present -state of many other roads in the kingdom, they not having been selected -as more particularly defective than others. - -The shape, or cross sections and drainage of the roads, are quite as -defective as the general direction and inclinations; there has been no -attention paid to constructing a good and solid foundation for the -roadway; the materials, whether of gravel or stones, have seldom been -sufficiently selected and arranged; and they lie so promiscuously upon -the road as to render it inconvenient to travel upon, and promote its -speedy destruction. The shape of the road, or cross section of the -surface, is frequently hollow in the middle; the sides encumbered with -great banks of mud, which have accumulated sometimes to the height of -six, seven and eight feet; these prevent the water from falling into the -side-drains; they also throw a considerable shade upon the road itself, -and are gross and unpardonable nuisances. The materials, instead of -being cleansed of the mud and soil with which they are mixed in their -native state, are laid promiscuously upon the road; this, in the first -instance, creates an unnecessary expense of carriage to the road, and -afterwards nearly as much in removing it, besides inconvenience and -obstruction to travelling; the materials should therefore be cleansed on -the spot where they are procured, from every particle of earth, by -screening, or if necessary, even by washing; some additional expense -might in the first instance be incurred by these operations, but it -would be found by much the most economical and advantageous mode in the -end. In all cases, materials in their native state are composed of -particles and pieces of different sizes, it is most important that those -should be separated, and that the largest size should be reduced to not -more than six or eight ounces in weight, and laid in the bottom part of -the road; those that are under that weight or size may be laid on the -top or surface of the road; the surface itself should be made with a -very gentle curve in its cross section, just sufficient to permit the -water to pass from the centre towards the sides of the road, the -declivity may increase towards the sides, and the general section form a -very flat ellipsis, so that the side, at the time, should (upon a road -of about thirty feet in width) be nine inches below the surface in the -middle. Connected with the cross section are the side drains which are -to receive the water, and which drains, in every instance, I -particularly recommend to be on the field side of the fence, with -apertures in that fence for the water to pass from the sides of the road -into them. - -The fences themselves on each side form a very material and important -subject, with regard to the perfection of roads; they should in no -instance be more than five feet in height above the centre of the road, -and all trees which stand within twenty yards from the centre of it -ought to be removed. I am sure that twenty per cent. of the expense of -improving and repairing roads is incurred by the improper state of the -fences and trees along the sides of it, on the sunny side more -particularly; this must be evident to any person who will notice the -state of a road which is much shaded by high fences and trees, compared -to the other parts of the road which are exposed to the sun and air. My -observations, with regard to fences and trees, apply when the road is on -the same level as the adjacent fields; but in many cases, on the most -frequented roads of England, more stuff has been removed from time to -time than was put on; the surface of the road is consequently sunk into -a trough or channel from three to six feet below the surface of the -fields on each side; here all attempts at drainage, or even common -repairs, seem to be quite out of the question; and by much the most -judicious and economical mode will be to remove the whole road into the -field which is on the sunny side of it. In cases where a road is made -upon ground where there are many springs, it is absolutely necessary to -make a number of under and cross drains to collect the water and conduct -it into the aforesaid side-drains, which I have recommended to be made -on the field side of the fences. - -In constructing the bottom part of a road, (which would, of course, be -made of an elliptical form) if it is upon clay, or other elastic -substance, which would retain water, I would recommend to cover the -whole bottom of the road with vegetable soil, in cases where the natural -shape of the ground admits; I would not remove the original surface, and -where there are inequalities I would fill them up with vegetable soil, -so as to cut off all connexion with clay. Where gravel is the material -to complete the road with, I have already mentioned, that it ought to be -completely cleansed of every particle of clay or earthy substance, and -its different sizes ought to be selected and arranged by means of -riddling or washing; in the use of the riddle, the particles of earth or -clay adhere so much to the stones that it frequently requires to be -exposed to the sun, air, and frost, for several months, and then riddled -over again. In this gravel, the stones are of different sizes and -different shapes; all those that are round ought to be broken with a -small hammer, and in mentioning hammers, I beg leave to draw the -attention of the Committee to their weight, shape and manner of using, -which is of much more importance than any one can conceive who has not -had much experience in road-making; the difference in managing this -operation being not less than ten per cent. and is, besides, of equal -importance towards the perfection of the road; the size and weight of -the hammer I would apportion to the size and weight of the stones, and -the stones should be broken upon the heap, not on the ground; it must be -evident that using round stones will be the means of deranging the -position of those near them, and of grinding them to pieces. - -Are you of opinion that the gravel which is found in the pits in the -neighbourhood of London is calculated for making roads capable of -bearing the heavy weights which the great traffic round London occasions -to be used upon them?—I am of opinion that the materials in the whole -valley or plain around London being entirely silicious, or flints, and -easily ground, to dust, are very improper. This must be evident to every -person who travels near London in any direction. - -Are you of opinion that it would be advisable or practicable to procure -from any particular part of the country, either by canal, or by river -conveyance, better materials, so as to form perfect roads, without the -necessity of paving them?—That those materials could be procured both by -the canals; and by sea is evident; but I am satisfied that the most -economical and preferable mode would be by means of paving. - -Do you consider that it would be advisable to pave the whole of the -roads, or that the paving of the centre or sides, as has been -recommended by some witnesses, would be sufficient?—I apprehend that the -paving a proper width in the centre would be quite sufficient, gravel -might be proper enough for the sides, upon the same principle that we, -in all new roads which are constructed, make use of metalling, or broken -stones on the middle part of the road, for about from sixteen to -eighteen or twenty feet in breadth, and leave the sides gravelled and -kept dry; this, in general, forms a very perfect road. - -Is there any principle which you would think proper to recommend in -regard to the shape of the stones to be used in paving roads?—I am of -opinion that the general shape of the stones at present used for paving, -and the modes of distributing them are very imperfect, the lower part of -the stones being of a triangular wedge-like shape, which, instead of -enabling them to resist the weights which come upon them; easily -penetrate into the substratum; the stones are also broken of an unequal -size. The remedies for these defects are obvious, they should be as -nearly as possible of a cubical form, its lower bed having an equal -surface with its upper face; they should be selected as nearly as -possible of an equal size, and they should never be of great length on -the face. - -In quarrying and preparing the stones would there be any additional -expense in forming them into the cubical shape now recommended?—There -would certainly be an additional expense in the preparation, because -there would be more work required in the dressing, and many stones must -be rejected which are now used; but I think the additional expense would -be very well bestowed. - -Are you of opinion that great injury is done to turnpike roads by the -heavy weights carried in waggons upon them?—I am. - -Are you of opinion that any breadth of wheels for those waggons will -justify the present exemption from tolls?—It certainly ought not. - -In what manner would you recommend that the tolls should be apportioned -to the weights carried by waggons on those roads?—I am of opinion that -the most advisable mode would be to apportion the tolls to the weight -carried on each wheel, without reference to the breadth, provided it is -not allowed to be less than four inches. - -For the purpose of assessing the tolls in this instance would it not be -necessary that the waggon should be weighed at every turnpike -gate?—There ought to be a power to do it, but there might be a check by -means of toll tickets, similar to what is done upon navigable canals. - -With a view of establishing good roads generally throughout the kingdom, -and of keeping them in repair upon the most economical plan, what -limitation would you propose as to the actual weight each carriage -should be allowed to carry?—I should think it should never exceed four -tons, which should be a ton upon each wheel; when it exceeds that weight -the best materials which can be procured for road-making must be -deranged and ground to pieces. - - - - - _Martis, 11º die Maii, 1819._ - - - Mr. _Robert Perry_, called in; and Examined. - -You hold a situation in the Post-office?—Yes, under Mr. Johnson, -inspector of the mails in the Post-office. - -Since the examination of Mr. Johnson before this Committee, has the -Post-office received any further report on the state of any of the roads -near the Metropolis?—Yes; one that is between Staines and Bagshot, which -I have brought with me. - - - [_Delivered in, and read:_] - - “State of the Turnpike Road between Staines and Bagshot, May 4th, 1819. - -From Staines Bridge to Egham the form of the road has been considerably -altered for the better, with plenty of watercourses and arched drains: -through Egham town the dirt has been entirely removed, and a very -plentiful supply of well-sifted gravel laid on, which will in a short -time make a good hard road. The hill likewise has recently been covered -with a thick coat of good stones, which will require a little time to -cement; from thence the road is greatly improved; the sides are pared -down, and kept particularly clean. - -At Virginia Water every thing appears to have been done to the hills, -that the time and sandy nature of the soil would permit; it is now in a -good form, and level. - -From Virginia Water Hill, by Broom Hill Hut, the road has been well -scraped, the watercourses opened, and the sides kept clean, and is in a -very good state all the way to Bagshot. - - (Signed) _Samuel Maddocks_.” - - - ABSTRACT OF RETURNS OF TURNPIKE TRUSTS ROUND LONDON. - - ──────────────┬───────────┬─────────┬──────────────┬──────────────┬────────────── - NAME OF TRUST.│ ACTS OF │LENGTH OF│ AMOUNT OF │ EXPENSES, │ DEBT. - │PARLIAMENT.│ ROAD. │ TOLLS, 1818. │ 1818. │ - ──────────────┼───────────┼─────────┼──────────────┼──────────────┼────────────── - Surrey New │ 26, 47, & │ 6 440│ £.9,210 -- --│ £.9,210 -- --│ £.9,000 -- -- - Road │ 58 Geo. 3 │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - City Road │43 Geo. 3.c│ 1 440│ 1,645 -- --│ 1,661 6 4│ 1,623 12 6 - │ 68. │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - St. │7, 8, & 29 │ 4 1,584│ 3,960 -- --│ 3,808 16 10│ 3,500 -- -- - Mary-le-Bone│ G.3. 23 & │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ 48 G.3. │ │ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Kensington │ 35 & 51 │ 17 │14,660 Tolls. │ 12,933 18 8│ 11,500 -- -- - │ Geo. 3. │ M. │ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Cannon Street │27 Geo. 2. │ 1 747│ 1,167 -- 6│ 962 9 2│ 3,519 18 6 - │5 & 42 Geo.│ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ 3. │ │ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - New Cross │ 24 May │ 39 660│ 11,833 8 3│ 11,660 11 8│ 2,464 16 -- - │ 1802, 27 │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ May 1809. │ │ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Whitechapel │ 25 & 43 │ 34 220│ 12,450 -- --│ 13,086 2 1│ 2,300 -- -- - │ Geo. 3. │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Surrey and │ 42 & 58 │ 57 798│ 14,606 10 --│ 14,758 18 7│ 3,750 -- -- - Sussex │ Geo. 3. │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Highgate and │41 Geo. 3. │ 20 │ 11,536 -- --│ 14,183 17 2│ 7,900 -- -- - Hampstead │ │ M. │ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Hackney │54 Geo. 3. │ 6 880│ 4,355 -- --│ 3,942 -- --│ 2,100 -- -- - │ │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Old Street │55 Geo. 3. │ 1 880│ 1,520 -- --│ 1,255 -- --│ - │ │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │ │ │ │ - Stamford Hill │55 Geo. 3. │ 20 880│ 10,540 -- --│ 11,393 -- --│ 15,000 -- -- - │ │ M. Yds.│ │ │ - │ │——— ———│ —————— —— ——│ —————— —— ——│ —————— —— —— - │ │210 489│£.97,482 18 9│£.98,856 -- 6│£.62,658 7 -- - │ │ M. Yds│ │ │ - │ │ │ —————— —— ——│ —————— —— ——│ —————— —— —— - │ │ │£.464.4. │£.470.14. │£.298.7. - │ │ │p’Mile. │p’Mile. │p’Mile. - ──────────────┴───────────┴─────────┴──────────────┴──────────────┴────────────── - - - - - REPORT - FROM - SELECT COMMITTEE - ON - MR. M’ADAM’S PETITION, - AND - _EXTRACTS FROM EVIDENCE_ -RELATING TO HIS IMPROVED SYSTEM OF CONSTRUCTING AND REPAIRING THE PUBLIC - ROADS OF THE KINGDOM. - - - _Ordered, by_ The House of Commons, _to be Printed, 20th June 1823_. - - - - - REPORT. - - - THE SELECT COMMITTEE appointed to take into consideration the Petition - of Mr. MᶜADAM, and to report to the House, whether any and what - further pecuniary Grant shall be made to him, either by way of - payment of his Expenses or as a remuneration for his Services, for - having introduced into practice an improved System of constructing - and repairing the PUBLIC ROADS of the Kingdom, or for the management - of the Funds applicable to the same;—HAVE, pursuant to the Order of - the House, examined the matters to them referred, and have agreed - upon the following REPORT: - -In presenting to the House the result of their inquiry into the claim -preferred by Mr. MᶜAdam for a compensation for his services, in -consequence of his having devised and introduced into practice an -improved and economical system of repairing, making and managing the -Turnpike Roads of the Kingdom; your Committee will notice, in the first -place, the proceedings which have taken place upon this subject previous -to the institution of the inquiry in which they have been engaged. - -It appears from the correspondence and documents obtained from the -Treasury, as well as from the Reports of former Committees of the House, -appointed to inquire into the state of the Highways of the Kingdom, that -the first application made by Mr. MᶜAdam for payment of his expenses, -and remuneration for his services, was in November 1819. This -application was referred by the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s -Treasury, by letter, to the Postmasters General, for explanation and -information; who, in reply, transmitted a Report from Mr. Johnson, the -Superintendent of Mailcoaches, stating as follows:— - -“As I travel rapidly over great distances, and my attention is usually -much occupied with the immediate business of the office, I cannot speak -with accuracy about particular and local alterations; but I feel myself -well warranted in stating, that whenever I have found any thing done -under Mr. MᶜAdam’s immediate direction, or by his pupils, or even in -imitation of his plan and principles, the improvement has been most -decisive, and the superiority over the common method of repairing roads -most evident; and, as Superintendent of Mailcoaches, I have abundant -reason to wish that Mr. MᶜAdam’s principles were acted upon very -generally: if they were, a pace which in winter, or any bad weather, -cannot be accomplished without difficulty, would become perfectly easy; -to say nothing of the comfort and safety of the traveller, and the -credit to humanity in lessening the labour of the animals. I may add, -although so much has been accomplished, the Postmasters General could -still expedite the conveyance of the Mails, and bring the arrangement of -the Posts nearer to perfection, if the Roads were universally as much -improved as the practice of Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan would effect. - - (Signed) CHA. JOHNSON.” - - _General Post Office,_ } - _Dec. 8, 1819._” } - -“As one instance of the benefit of Mr. MᶜAdam’s improvement, I beg to -mention that the Mail last winter lost ten, fifteen, and twenty minutes, -in passing from Staines to Bagshot; but now the time is exactly kept. - - (Signed) C. J.” - -And the Post Masters General also concluded their Report to the Treasury -by observing, “That with respect to the road near Staines, to which he -alludes, we had found it necessary to give notice of indictment, which -has been prevented by the Commissioners resorting to Mr. MᶜAdam’s -assistance and advice, which has produced the excellent road mentioned -by the Superintendent. - -“The Road from Newbury, through Reading, to Twyford, has been so much -improved, that the Mailcoach has been better enabled to keep its time -than heretofore, and we are convinced that if the roads near London were -improved in a similar manner, considerable advantages would be obtained -to the correspondence in general, but particularly in places from ninety -to one hundred miles distant.” - -In February, the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s Treasury received -a representation from several noblemen and gentlemen, urging in very -strong terms the claim of Mr. MᶜAdam to remuneration for the services he -had rendered to the Public. This document, as well on account of the -grounds upon which the remuneration is stated to have been merited, as -also from its having been so numerously and respectively signed, well -deserves the attention of the House. Mr. Harrison, by desire of their -Lordships, transmitted this certificate with a letter to the Postmasters -General; in which, amongst other observations, and alluding to the -recommendation in favour of Mr. MᶜAdam before mentioned, he writes as -follows:—“These testimonials are of so highly respectable a nature from -the station and character of the individuals who have signed them, and -are so decisive as to the merit, not only of the system itself, but also -of Mr. MᶜAdam’s personal labours and exertions in reducing it into -practice; and as to the great advantages which the Public have already -derived therefrom on several important lines of road in different parts -of the Kingdom, that my Lords could not hesitate a moment in affording -to any application, which Mr. MᶜAdam may be advised to make to -Parliament for remuneration for these services, their perfect and entire -concurrence.” - -And the Postmasters General in the same letter are directed, after -taking into their consideration these testimonials, together with any -subsequent information they may have acquired, to report whether the sum -of 2,000_l._ or any other sum might, in their opinion, be advanced to -Mr. MᶜAdam, to relieve him from the difficulties under which he then -laboured, and until the pleasure of Parliament shall be obtained; to -which the Postmasters General reply by letter of 23d February 1820, in -still stronger terms of commendation of the services of Mr. MᶜAdam, -stating that “they consider Mr. MᶜAdam’s system of making and repairing -roads as deserving of every encouragement, that its beneficial results -are acknowledged in every part of the various districts of the country -where the trustees of roads have availed themselves of his assistance -and suggestions, that he has in the most disinterested manner given -every facility to other persons with the same general object; and that -the observations of their Surveyor of Mailcoaches, enclosed in their -Report of the 20th December, have acquired additional force from the -experience of the last two months, in which the mail coaches have had to -contend with unusual difficulties; for it has been evident on such parts -of roads where Mr. MᶜAdam’s system has been pursued, the public mails -have experienced less interruption than where the old system was -persisted in; and their Lordships conclude their letter by recommending -the advance of 2000_l._” - -In the session of 1819, a Select Committee was appointed to take into -consideration the Acts in force regarding the Turnpike Roads and -Highways of the Kingdom, and the expediency of additional regulations -for their better repair and preservation. This Committee reported, in -the most decided terms, as to the success of Mr. MᶜAdam’s system. The -following is a short extract from that Report: “The admirable state of -repair into which the roads under Mr. MᶜAdam’s system were brought -attracted very general attention, and induced the commissioners of -various districts to apply for his assistance or advice. The general -testimony borne to his complete success wherever he has been employed, -and the proof that his improvements have been attended with an actual -reduction of expense, while they have afforded the most useful -employment to the poor, induce your Committee to attach a high degree of -importance to that which he has already accomplished. The imitations of -his plans are rendered easy by their simplicity, and by the candour with -which he has explained them, although ability in the surveyor to judge -of their application must be understood as an essential requisite.” - -In session 1820, Mr. MᶜAdam presented a petition to Parliament, praying -for the payment of his expenses, and such reward for his services as the -House in its justice and wisdom should think fit to grant. This petition -was referred for consideration to the Select Committee then sitting upon -the state of the Highways, who had the account of Mr. MᶜAdam’s expenses -up to 1814 submitted to them; and from which account it appears, that -the distance travelled by Mr. MᶜAdam was 30,000 miles, and that there -were 1,920 days employed in this service; that reckoning by the rules of -allowance made by the Post Office to their surveyors, the expense of the -above travelling amounted to the sum of 5,019_l._ 6_s._ which sum Mr. -MᶜAdam states to have been expended by him on this service up to August -1814. - -Mr. MᶜAdam further states, in his Evidence before the Committee; “This -account is made from memoranda in my possession, and I have made the -same with such care and attention, that I am ready to make oath that it -is to the best of my knowledge and belief correct, whenever I may be -required so to do.” Which he afterwards did in the following terms: - - “I, John Loudon MᶜAdam, do hereby voluntarily make oath that the - above-mentioned account delivered by me to the Committee on Turnpike - Roads and Highways, is to the best of my knowledge and belief - correct.” - - “Witness my hand this 8th day of March 1821. - - (Signed) JNO. LOUDON MᶜADAM.” - - “_Sworn before me at Pontefract,_ } - _8th March 1821._ } - - (Signed) G. ALDERSON, _Alderman_.” - -Your Committee, in their Report of the 18th of July 1820, state as -follows: - -“The attention of your Committee has been directed to the claim of Mr. -John Loudon MᶜAdam for public remuneration, contained in his petition -referred to them by the House. - -“Your Committee apprehend, that the ability, industry and zeal of Mr. -MᶜAdam in his successful pursuit of the best means for constructing -roads are become matters of general notoriety. It appears that Mr. -MᶜAdam first directed the public attention to this important fact, that -angular fragments of hard materials, sufficiently reduced in size, will -coalesce or bind, without other mixture, into a compacted mass of stone -nearly impenetrable to water, which being laid almost flat, so as to -allow of carriages passing freely upon all parts of the road, will wear -evenly throughout, not exhibiting the appearance of ruts or of any other -inequalities. This principle, once brought under notice, may appear -sufficiently obvious; but Mr. MᶜAdam has had the honour at much expense -of labour, of time, and of his private fortune, to bring it into -practice on an extensive scale. - -“Your Committee are therefore clearly of opinion, that Mr. MᶜAdam is -entitled to reward, and they approve of the advance made to him by the -Postmaster General, under sanction of the Treasury. Your Committee have -called for the correspondence which passed upon that occasion. They have -examined Mr. Freeling, Chief Secretary to the Post Office; Mr. Johnson, -Surveyor or Superintendent of Mailcoaches; and they have received -statements from Mr. MᶜAdam, in support of his further claim, all of -which they insert in the Appendix; and after a full investigation of the -matters submitted to them, your Committee are of opinion, that Mr. -MᶜAdam is entitled to further reward for his services, but they think it -much better in all respects to leave the amount to the Post Office, than -to mention any specific sum themselves. - -“While every individual throughout the nation, and almost every concern -is benefited by good roads, the Post Office derives peculiar and more -direct advantage from them, combined with constant and accurate -intelligence respecting their state; your Committee, therefore, consider -the Post Office best able to form a correct opinion upon the subject, -and they moreover feel that a debt is due from the revenue of the Post -Office, to be paid on any extraordinary occasion to the Roads of Great -Britain, a debt contracted by the exemption, however properly given, of -their carriages from toll. - -“On all these grounds your Committee think it right to refer the -Petition of Mr. MᶜAdam to the Postmasters General, under the sanction of -the Treasury, with their favourable recommendation.” - -And in the Appendix to that Report it will be found from the Evidence of -Mr. Freeling, “That the Post Office did not take Mr. MᶜAdam’s services -into consideration, or suppose that 2,000_l._ would be a sufficient -remuneration for those services; they merely stated, in answer to papers -from the Treasury, that they considered it would be right to _advance_ -to Mr. MᶜAdam the sum of 2,000_l._ and consider Mr. MᶜAdam’s claims as -establishing a ground for further remuneration.” - -In consequence of that Report the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s -Treasury again, on the 23d of September, refer the subject to the -Postmasters General, who, considering the first sum of 5,019_l._ 6_s._ -to be admitted as proved before the Committee, recommended the payment -of his expenses from 1814, to be calculated upon the same principle as -the travelling allowance is made to the Superintendent of the -Mailcoaches, amounting to 1,837_l._ 17_s._ 6_d._ and they further -propose the sum of 2,000_l._ or 2,500_l._ to be granted to Mr. MᶜAdam, -as a moderate compensation for his services; upon this the Lords -Commissioners of the Treasury issued a second sum of 2,000_l._ stating -that their Lordships, adverting to the large amount of Mr. MᶜAdam’s -claims, cannot feel themselves justified in issuing any further sum to -him on account thereof, without the express authority of Parliament for -that purpose. On the 5th December 1820, Mr. MᶜAdam again addressed a -letter to the Lords of the Treasury, which was transmitted to the Post -Office; and the Postmasters General, referring to their former letter, -observe that they have no difficulty in bearing their testimony to the -services of Mr. MᶜAdam, and to the benefits which the Public were likely -to derive from them, and also stated that in their opinions the charges -were reasonable. - -The last Memorial presented by Mr. MᶜAdam was to the Postmasters -General, who, in transmitting it to the Treasury, observe, “The -favourable opinions which we entertained and expressed in our former -Reports upon this subject have been confirmed by experience; and that by -employing Mr. MᶜAdam to survey the roads in Lancashire the most -beneficial results are likely to follow.” - -Having thus given a succinct and connected account of these different -proceedings, and having taken into their consideration the whole of the -correspondence which has passed previous to this inquiry between the -Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s Treasury and the Postmasters -General, together with the several Memorials presented at different -periods to these departments by the Petitioner, with the documents -accompanying them, and having considered Mr. MᶜAdam’s statement of his -case, and the proof adduced in support of it, which accompany this -Report, your Committee are of opinion that Mr. MᶜAdam has, by means of -great assiduity, skill, and many years personal labour, and at a -considerable expense, out of his private property, introduced into very -extensive practice a system of repairing, making and managing the -turnpike roads and highways of the kingdom, from which the Public have -derived most important and valuable advantages. - -That in addition to the notoriety of the fact, that the improved -condition of the public roads is in a great degree to be ascribed to the -ability, zeal, and indefatigable exertions of Mr. MᶜAdam, it now for the -first time appears, that Mr. MᶜAdam has gratuitously given his personal -attention upon, and advice and assistance to, no less a number than -seventy turnpike trusts in twenty-eight counties of the kingdom, from -many of which he has not received the payment even of his expenses; that -he has, for a considerable length of time, been engaged in an extensive -correspondence with persons connected with the management and -improvement of roads, affording, in the most unreserved manner, -information and instruction wherever required; and that he has attended, -during several sessions of Parliament, the Committee of this House, for -the same purpose of communicating information: all which services, -together with the assistance he has been called upon to give to the Post -Office, he has rendered without reward or pecuniary compensation of any -kind, beyond the sum of 4,000_l._ advanced to him by the Lords -Commissioners of the Treasury, in part payment of his expenses. - -Looking to the result of these services as affecting the community at -large; the increase of comfort, convenience and safety to the Public -generally; the diminution of expense in the wear and tear of carriages -of all descriptions; the reduction of horse-labour, and consequent -expense of horses; the relief the oppressive burthen of the poor rates, -by the additional means created for employing the surplus labouring -population of the encumbered parishes; the abolition in many instances -of a great part, and in some, of the whole of the statute duty -complained of by the agriculturists, and the very essential benefit to -the agricultural, commercial and manufacturing classes, by the more easy -and equal diffusion of the produce of the soil over the various parts of -the kingdom; the free as well as rapid circulation of commercial -capital, thereby adding greatly to the national wealth and prosperity -which this system has materially contributed to effect; the Committee -cannot hesitate to express their opinion, in concurrence with that -already pronounced by the Heads of the Department of the Post Office, -that the sum of 2,000_l._ or 2,500_l._, in addition to his expenses, to -be calculated after the same rate of allowance as is granted by that -office to the Surveyor or Superintendent of Mailcoaches, will be but a -moderate compensation to Mr. MᶜAdam for his great exertions and very -valuable services. - -The Committee, with a view to abridge the Appendix, have omitted to -include several testimonials forwarded to them from different innkeepers -and postmasters, stating the advantages they have derived from the -improvement of the roads under Mr. MᶜAdam’s system; but which tend to -confirm the general opinion favourable to the system. - -It appears that Mr. MᶜAdam has held, from the year 1816 to the present -time, and now holds, the situation of general surveyor of the Bristol -Turnpike Roads at a salary, the first year, of 400_l._ and each -subsequent year, of 500_l._; but taking into consideration, that out of -his annual salary 200_l._ is for expenses incident to his Office, the -remaining sum of 300_l._ is, in the opinion of this Committee, not more -than an adequate payment for the constant and laborious duties attached -to the situation, and cannot, or ought not, to be considered as -constituting any remuneration to Mr. MᶜAdam for his other distinct and -important services. - -It further appears, that the three sons of Mr. MᶜAdam are employed as -general surveyors upon various lines of road in different parts of the -Kingdom; that they have been and are competitors with all other road -surveyors, over whom they possess no other advantage than such as their -superior intelligence, skill and industry entitle them to, having no -exclusive or preferable privilege whatever; that they have improved, and -at the same time have very considerably reduced the expense upon almost -all the roads under their management; and that their incomes, when -diminished by the necessary disbursements and payments to the persons -acting under them, and their own expenses, cannot be deemed too large a -sum for their own individual services; but, on the contrary, that they -have returned to the Public for the amount of their gains a fair and -full measure of benefit, by the personal activity, skill and labour so -conspicuous in the management of the roads, and the funds of the trusts -under their superintendence; that two of the three had relinquished -situations of profit to afford their aid in giving effect to and -carrying the system into execution, and are justly entitled to the -fruits of their industry, and hard-earned incomes, without the -participation of any other person; and it does not appear that the -Petitioner has profited in any manner from the salaries allowed to his -sons. - -With respect to the petition of Mr. Wingrove, referred to your -Committee, it appears, from the Petitioner’s own statement, that his -object is a compensation for services which he considers himself -individually to have rendered to the public, a claim which your -Committee can neither investigate nor entertain, being foreign to the -object of their inquiry; and no part of Mr. Wingrove’s statement -appearing, in the opinion of your Committee, to affect the system of Mr. -MᶜAdam, or impeach his claim to a remuneration for services performed, -they feel it necessary only to present his evidence without further -remark. - -In like manner, and with the same observation, they may dismiss the -petition of Mr. Lester, between the comparative merit of whose literary -productions with those of Mr. MᶜAdam, and whether Mr. MᶜAdam has -“infringed upon his literary property,” your Committee are not called -upon to determine; nor is it within their province to pronounce an -opinion upon the degree of merit belonging to Mr. Lester for the -construction of the various models of machines exhibited to your -Committee, and alleged by Mr. Lester to be applicable to, and useful -for, the improvement of roads. - -In conclusion, your Committee desire to state it as their opinion, that -the value of Mr. MᶜAdam’s system, and consequently of his services, by -no means appears to its full extent upon the roads under the immediate -management of himself, or of his sons; but that the effect produced upon -a considerable portion of the roads generally throughout the Kingdom, -since the adoption of his system, has been manifest, and, as your -Committee conceive, too apparent to escape the most common or -indifferent observer; and further, that it must be obvious, from past -experience, that a system from which so much good has been already -derived, would, if extended over the whole face of the Kingdom, be -productive of the most beneficial consequences both to the condition of -the roads, and in effecting a reduction of the amount of the present -enormous and improvident expenditure. - -Your Committee would therefore strongly recommend to the House the -consideration of the subject of making and managing the roads of the -Kingdom in the course of the ensuing Session of Parliament, feeling -convinced that whatever plausible appearance the plan may assume of -appointing a large number of noblemen, gentlemen, farmers, and -tradesmen, Commissioners of Roads, that the practice has everywhere been -found to be at variance with the supposed efficiency of so large a -number of irresponsible managers; and that the inevitable consequences -of a continuance of this defective system will be, to involve the -different trusts deeper in debt, and leave the roads without funds to -preserve them in proper order. - -Your Committee cannot close their Report without directing the attention -of the House to that part of Mr. James MᶜAdam’s evidence, in which he -states the practicability of converting the pavement of the streets of -London into smooth and substantial roads; and your Committee have the -satisfaction to inform the House that the experiment is about to be -tried in two very different and distinct parts of the Metropolis, viz. -in St. James’s Square, and over Westminster Bridge and its boundary. -This most desirable improvement has, as appears from the evidence of Mr. -MᶜAdam, senior, and from that of Mr. William MᶜAdam, already been tried, -and completely succeeded (as is well known to many members of the House) -both at Bristol and Exeter, and is in progress of execution upon the -paved ways in the county of Lancaster. - -The benefit to the inhabitants of this large City by such an important -improvement, in all its various advantages of comfort, convenience, and -economy, can scarcely be appreciated; and your Committee hope that the -plan about to be tried in two separate parts of London will be found so -far to succeed as to induce its adoption, at least in all the large -streets of the Metropolis, observing, that they believe that it is a -plan which Mr. MᶜAdam has for many years urged the adoption of, and, as -constituting a part of his system, will be found mentioned in all his -publications on the improved system of road-making. - - 20th _June_, 1823. - - - - - MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. - - - - - _Mercurii, 28º die Maij, 1823._ - SIR THOMAS BARING, BART. - In the Chair. - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined. - -You were formerly a magistrate, and commissioner of the roads in -Scotland, were you not?—I was. - -When did you first turn your attention to road making?—I was a -commissioner and trustee of the roads in Scotland from the time of my -return from America in the year 1783; and I naturally turned my -attention to it there, because they had begun about twelve years before -to make the roads turnpike, and they were carrying them on with -considerable activity when I returned from America; and it appeared to -me at that time, and all the time I was trustee, that there was a great -deal of money expended needlessly, and with very little effect, on the -roads, and that of course turned my attention to the cause. I began then -to travel through different parts of the country to inspect the -different managements of different parts of the road, first in Scotland, -and then I went into England. In the year 1798, I came to live in -England, at Bristol. I have no documents to prove my travelling before I -came to reside in England in the year 1798. In 1798 I began to make it a -sort of business. Without saying to any one what my object was, I -travelled all over the country in different parts. I have a list of such -of those places I travelled to that I happened to keep memorandums of, -but I cannot possibly say all the places I travelled to. - -How long were you occupied in travelling for the purpose of obtaining -information for the construction of roads?—It was only occasional -travelling of course. I had some other occupations and private affairs -to look into. I began in the year 1798 to travel as often as I had -leisure and convenience down to the time I took the charge of the -Bristol roads, down to the year 1816, the beginning of 1816 or latter -end of the year 1815. - -What was the result of your observations and inquiry of the state of the -roads?—I found the roads were extremely bad in all parts of Great -Britain, as far back as the year 1798, and that very little improvement -took place in them between that time and the year 1815, which I -attributed to the ignorance of the persons who had the charge of them, -the ignorance of the surveyors, the total want of science. - -What were the objections which you found?—I found the materials so -applied that the roads were all loose, and carriages, instead of passing -over the roads, ploughed them; that was the general fault of the roads, -and the loose state of the materials, I apprehend, was owing to the bad -selection, the bad appropriation, and the unskilful laying of them. I -came to that conclusion first, from observing that in some parts of the -country where things were better managed, there were better roads; and I -instanced the roads between Cross and Bridgewater, in Somersetshire; -there I saw a better road than in most other parts of the country, and -having inquired into their management, I found that they prepared their -materials better. The next improvement that I saw in roads, was at -Kendal, in Westmoreland, where I think the same result proceeded from -the same cause. That led me to the conclusion, that under a better -system of management a better road would be produced; and having gone to -every part of the country, and inquired into the manner in which they -made the roads, I formed a theory in my own mind. This theory I got -leave to put in practice by being appointed to the care of the Bristol -roads, of which I was a commissioner in January 1816. - -Did you make any inquiry into the expenditure of money upon those roads, -that you found in so bad a state?—I did. - -What was the result of that inquiry?—I generally found that the expense -was in proportion to the badness of the roads, not to their good -quality, but as the roads were bad and badly managed the expense -increased, and I found few roads that were not deeply in debt and in -distress for money. - -In what did the improvident expenditure consist?—I think principally in -carting great quantities of unprepared materials, and putting them into -the roads where they were not wanted; that was one source of needless -expense; and then the materials being put in so bad a state did not -last; the road went soon to pieces. I believe there was a great deal of -other kind of prodigality, of a worse character than carelessness. - -Did you find a larger quantity of materials put in the road than was -necessary?—I did, in most instances; a much larger quantity than was -necessary. - -Did you discover, in any of the roads, that there were materials -sufficient, if raised, to make a good road, without putting on the -additional, quantity?—In a very great number, I think the greater -number, I found a sufficient quantity of materials for giving them one -good making, without any further addition. - -Were these the whole of your observations on the state of the roads?—No. -It is not very easy to explain to gentlemen, exactly, the particulars -that I know to be wrong in roads; I found the water-ways, and things -connected with keeping the roads dry, exceedingly neglected in the -country. - -Be so good as to state what defects you observed in the construction of -the roads, besides those you have already mentioned?—I think the -water-ways were extremely neglected, and the roads in general were -covered with water, and many of them standing in wet. It was a practice -formerly to dig a trench when they made the new road. There was a hollow -way, and a great deal of the bad quality of roads in general was owing -to the circumstance that the road was standing in water. I think that -was one very great error formerly; but the roads were made upon no -principle; there seemed to be no object; the persons who made them did -not seem to understand there was some object to be gained; they had no -other idea of mending a road than bringing a great quantity of material, -and shooting it on the ground. When a road got into entire disrepair, -the next thing was to bring a quantity of the same kind of unprepared -material, and to shoot it upon the road. - -Did you find that they made use of bad material when a better was to be -procured?—I found that to be very universally the case, that the tops of -the quarries, and that to be easily procured, was taken in general, and -the best stone left behind. I am afraid that is too much the custom in -the country still. - -Did you find they put these materials on the road in an unprepared and -unfit state?—I did; they were not broken, nor in many cases cleaned. - -Have you any thing further to state with regard to the construction of -the road?—No; I do not recollect any thing further I can state. - -What inquiry did you make into the management of the funds of the -different trusts?—I made it a business to inquire generally of the -surveyors, workmen, and people on the roads, as to the expense of -materials, cartage, day-labour, and then I took what pains I could with -gentlemen of the country, to inquire into the state of the funds: with -surveyors and other officers of trusts, I found a jealousy and an -unwillingness every where to give me information. An unauthorized -individual finds it extremely difficult to procure information of that -sort, and I found it so; a very great unwillingness to inform. - -What class of persons did you find in the situation of surveyors on the -road?—Always, I think, almost without exception, very low people, many -of them old servants, ruined tradesmen, people without that kind of -energy and character which I think is absolutely necessary for such a -service. - -Did you make any inquiry into the mode of the performance of statute -labour?—Yes; I inquired very particularly about that, and I found the -statute labour, when called for, was sent by the farmer to the roads, -but the people seldom did above half a day’s work; and though the farmer -lost the service of his servants and team, the public did not get it; it -was a heavier oppression on the country than benefit to the roads. - -Did you find, in collecting the materials, that there was any -deficiency, or any mismanagement, on the part of those who superintended -it?—I had very great reason to believe, that in most instances the -country was imposed on. - -Have you any knowledge of it?—No, I have no knowledge; I had no legal -means of taking such measures as should have made me so certain as to be -able to give evidence to it. - -What extent of turnpike road is there in England and Wales?—On my first -examination before a Committee of this House, I stated my opinion to be -25,000 miles; but I see, from a corrected state of the returns made to -parliament, which I made out, that the number is 24,599 miles. - -Do you know what sum is annually expended upon these roads?—The annual -income has been ascertained by the same returns to be 1,282,715_l._ - -Can you state what part of the sum goes to the payment of the interest -of the debt, and what is applied to the improvement of the road?—The -mortgage debt in the kingdom is 6,036,502_l._; but there is a large sum -due to treasurers, and balances of interest, which is also bearing -interest, amounting to 569,041_l._ The whole debt that bears interest is -6,605,543_l._ - -What is the amount of tolls?—1,282,715_l._ - -What do you compute the expense of statute labour at?—I never have made -any guess at it; for two reasons, statute labour is so difficult to -guess at; and the proportion given to the turnpike roads is so different -in different parts of the country, under local Acts, and under the -general Act; but in the roads under my management it amounts to about -five per cent. of the toll-duty. - - - Mr. _James MᶜAdam_, Examined. - -Have you in any instance tried the experiment of converting paved -streets into roads?—I have in several instances taken up small pieces of -pavement that I found upon the several road trusts, and substituted -road. In the town of Stamford I took a piece up of considerable extent, -which is now road instead of the pavement. - -What has been the effect of the conversion of the pavement into -road?—The expense has considerably diminished, and facility of -travelling very considerably increased. - -Has any suggestion been made to you of converting the pavement of any -part of the streets of London into road?—I have been ordered, by the -Parliamentary commissioners having charge of Westminster Bridge, to -prepare an estimate and report, with a view to convert that pavement -into a broken stone road, which documents I have furnished; and I have -reason to believe that the same will be immediately carried into effect. -I have been also directed by the trustees and proprietors of St. James’s -square, to prepare (which I have done) the same documents, with a view -to substitute a broken stone road in St. James’s square, in lieu of the -present pavement. - -What is your opinion of the effect that would be found from its being -carried into execution in all the streets of London, as to the reduction -of expense, and benefit generally to the public?—I consider that the -expense would be most materially reduced; the convenience of passing -over the surface, there could be no doubt, would be generally -facilitated, and made more convenient, particularly in the great leading -streets, such as Piccadilly, Pall-mall, Parliament street and Whitehall, -and others of that description; the expense of the same weight of stone -now put upon those streets as pavement would be obtained at infinitely -less expense, in a different form, for the purpose of road-making. - -Is it your plan to raise the present pavement, and convert that pavement -into materials for making the road, or to bring new materials and -dispose of the pavement?—For Westminster Bridge I recommended to the -trustees to sell the present pavement, because as long as pavements -continue to be generally used, stone in that shape and size will always -be valuable, and the same weight of granite I could obtain for the -formation of the road over the bridge at 10_s._ 6_d._ per ton, the -present pavement being worth a guinea per ton; but were the streets of -London generally taken up, pavement would of course become of less -value, and it might be broken for the formation of the roads. - -Is that pavement of a quality calculated to make good roads?—The best -material in the kingdom. - -What proportion would the pavement now used in the streets of London -bear to the materials necessary to the formation of the roads?—There -would be sufficient for the formation of a strong durable road in the -first instance; and I estimate that a supply of materials for the future -care of the road, for a considerable time, would be left. - -Would that answer in all the small streets of the metropolis as well as -for the large and open streets?—I think not so well in the very narrow -streets, which are liable to water, and where, from the width of the -street, the thoroughfare must necessarily be upon one given spot. I beg, -however, to observe, that the thoroughfare in those streets is extremely -small. - -Would the dust be increased or diminished by this alteration?—I -consider, that upon a well made stone road, with the same care of -cleansing and watering that is given to the streets, that the annoyance -from dust would be infinitely less; and a road is more susceptible of -retaining the water than pavement. - -What would be the proportion of the annual expense between the paved -street and the road?—Taking seven years, during which time I calculate -that the pavement gets worn out, I should think the annual expense of -the road would not be one fifth part, because in that seven years the -whole value of the pavement is nearly lost. - -What would be the effect produced upon the necessity of raising the road -for the purpose of alteration of the pipes and other works under the -street?—At present, when this operation is necessary, a paviour, whose -wages are from five to six shillings a-day, is required. Were the -streets converted into stone roads, a labourer at eighteen-pence a-day -would perform the same service; and by due care in laying the materials -on one side, and the earth on the other, the injury to the road would be -extremely small, and the spot would very soon become obliterated; -whereas in raising a part of a paved street it is quite impossible ever -to unite the piece so raised with the rest of the pavement. - -Supposing the pavement to be converted into a road, in that case, would -it be necessary, when any pipe was repairing, to stop up the way to -prevent carriages and horses passing?—Certainly not more so than at -present, as that circumstance must always depend upon the width of the -street. In very narrow streets, where the pipe lies in the centre, a -large opening is necessary; it would follow as a matter of course that -the street must be stopped; but upon large streets one side would be -left free. - -Would not a repair be more rapidly executed, supposing the way to be a -road instead of a street?—Were the streets converted into roads, the -repair of the roads would be almost unknown to the public, and no -stoppage whatever would take place; the repair of such roads would be -limited to a one-inch coat at a time, which would scarcely be known to -persons passing in carriages, and the great inconvenience at present -constantly felt in every part of this large metropolis by the necessity -of repaving the streets would cease. - -You assume that the roads for the streets in London must be made with -granite?—Most assuredly, I should never recommend any other material to -be made use of for the roads in the town. - - - Mr. _William MᶜAdam_, further Examined. - -Have you, in the course of your practice, converted any paved street -into a road?—Yes, I have; Fore-street Hill, in Exeter, forms part of -that turnpike trust; it is very steep, and was exceedingly slippery, so -much so, that I never rode on horseback down it myself till it was -converted into a stone road; it has been so for a year or two; it has -answered every purpose, and stood remarkably well, and by being watered -a little in very dry weather, I believe there is less inconvenience -found from dust than when it was paved. I have heard some gentlemen say, -that in coming up that hill with their carriages, it not being above a -furlong and a half or two furlongs in length, they have saved from five -to ten minutes time since it was made road; and I have heard coachmen -say, that when they brought their horses quite cool to the bottom of -that hill, they have been quite in a lather by the time they got to the -top of it, from the terror of the horses in slipping about. - -That was when it was paved?—Yes. - -What kind of stone do you use for making that road?—The pebble of the -country, picked from the gravel pits. - -Have you converted any other part of Exeter from pavement into -road?—There is no other part of Exeter under the care of the trust; but -in consequence of the effect which the Chamber of Exeter saw in -Fore-street, they have broken up a great many of the streets in Exeter, -and, I believe, are proceeding gradually to do them all. In the town of -Newton-Abbot there is a county bridge; the county have broken up the -bridge bands, and converted it in a similar manner. - - - _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esq. further Examined. - -Have you, in any instance, made the alteration stated by your sons?—Yes, -I have; I found the suburbs of Bristol were entirely paved when I took -charge of the roads of the district; those suburbs are within the -jurisdiction of the commissioners for the care of turnpike roads; and I -found the expense of paving was very heavy, and the effect very bad, and -I at once took the whole pavement up, and broke the stone that I found -there into a stone road, up to the jurisdiction of the magistrates. - -Was that granite stone?—No, a kind of stone called the blue pennet in -that county, and part of a light stone called Brandon Hill stone; both -tolerably good stones: the blue pennet is certainly not so good as -granite; the Brandon Hill stone, when broken, is pretty nearly as good -as granite. But those suburbs having been taken up, and given great -satisfaction the year before last, the magistrates took up half of the -street, called Stoke’s Croft, which is the great entrance of the town -from Gloucestershire. The inhabitants were very much afraid of dust; and -therefore they requested the magistrates not to take up the whole of the -street, but to make an experiment on one half of it, and after a year’s -experiment they consented to the whole being taken up. When I left -Bristol, which is now three months ago, they were busy taking up the -remainder of that street; and I understood it was the intention of the -magistrates to proceed gradually to take up a great number of other -streets in the town. - -Do you know what difference it has made in the expense?—That part of the -suburbs that was lifted, and laid again with the same stone broken, cost -5_d._ a square yard for doing it. I took up the stone; I had nothing to -purchase; the stone that came out of the streets fully made the road, -and we had a little remaining for repair afterwards, and that operation -cost 5_d._ a square yard; paving, in the city of Bristol, cost 5_s._ -6_d._ a square yard when stone is found by the paviour, and I believe -they reckon the laying down to be eighteen-pence of that. - -What would be the difference of expense annually between & paved street -and a road?—I think that road required no repair for the first three -years after it was done. - -A paved street would require no repair for seven years after it was -done?—I think we repaired it for about a fifth part of the money, when -it required repair, that a pavement would have cost. We seldom find our -streets in Bristol last above three years; the pavements become rugged, -and full of holes, and so on; they are obliged to be taken up, and they -relay them generally once in three years. There is another street in -Bristol which has been taken up, but I cannot recollect the name of it; -it goes from Stoke’s Croft to Kingston; it has been taken up by the -magistrates, not under my direction. - -Has any objection been taken by any person to the alteration that has -been made at Bristol?—No, except the alarm that the inhabitants of Stone -Croft had when it was begun to be done, and they got the magistrates to -delay doing more than half of it till they were satisfied that it would -not inconvenience them; and the circumstance of their sending a request -to the magistrates to finish it induces me to believe that they were -very much satisfied with the experiment. Park-street, in Bristol, has -been done in that way for, I think, seventeen years; I was then a -commissioner for watching and paving the streets of Bristol. - -Who did it?—It was done at the expense of the commissioners for watching -and paving, at my wish, and I certainly did superintend it, though I had -nothing to do with it more than any other commissioner had. It is a -street many gentlemen know very well; it is a public road from Bristol -to the Park, and very steep; I believe it is a rise of three inches in a -yard, and when paved was so very dangerous and slippery that many -accidents arose from it, and now it is a very good road indeed, and I do -not believe that it cost upon an average, since that alteration, more -than one fourth of what it used to do. - -What stone was it paved with before?—Black rock-stone, a species of -limestone. - - - - - APPENDIX. - - - APPENDIX (B.) - MEMORANDUM of Mr. Johnson, respecting the Roads under Mr. MᶜAdam’s - superintendence. - -As I travel rapidly over great distances, and my attention is usually -much occupied with the immediate business of the office, I cannot speak -with accuracy about particular and local alterations. But I feel myself -well warranted in stating, that whenever I have found any thing done -under Mr. MᶜAdam’s immediate direction, or by his pupils, or even in -imitation of his plan and principles, the improvement has been most -decisive, and the superiority over the common method of repairing roads, -most evident; and, as superintendent of mailcoaches, I have abundant -reason to wish that Mr. MᶜAdam’s principles were acted upon very -generally. If they were, a pace, which in winter or any bad weather -cannot be accomplished without difficulty, would become perfectly easy, -to say nothing of the comfort and safety of the traveller, and the -credit to humanity in lessening the hard labour of the animals. I may -add, that although so much has been accomplished, the postmaster general -could still expedite the conveyance of the mails, and bring the -arrangements of the posts nearer to perfection, if the roads were -universally as much improved as the practice of Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan would -effect. - - CHAS. JOHNSON. - - _General Post-office, - Dec. 8, 1819._ - -P.S. As one instance of the benefit of Mr. MᶜAdam’s improvement, I beg -to mention that the _mail last winter lost ten, fifteen, and twenty -minutes, in passing from Staines to Bagshot_, but now the time is -_exactly kept_. - - C. J. - - - - - APPENDIX (C.) -LETTER from Postmaster General to the Lords of the Treasury; dated 20th - December 1819. - - - To the Right Hon. the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s Treasury. - - My Lords, - -We beg to acknowledge the receipt of Mr. Harrison’s letter of the 26th -ult. transmitting, by your lordships command, the application of John -Loudon MᶜAdam, submitting his claim on account of his inquiries relative -to the improvement of the roads in this kingdom, and requesting any -information in our power with regard to Mr. MᶜAdam’s services. - -In conformity to your lordship’s desire, we have applied to the -superintendent of mailcoaches, as the officer in our department most -competent to give information upon the subject of Mr. MᶜAdam’s -exertions; and we beg leave to inclose his report, and to add, that with -respect to the road near Staines, to which he alludes, we had found it -necessary to give notice of indictment, which has been prevented, by the -commissioners resorting to Mr. MᶜAdam’s assistance and advice, which -have produced the excellent road mentioned by the superintendent. - -The road from Newbury, through Reading to Twyford has been so much -improved, that the mail-coach has been better enabled to keep its time -than heretofore; and we are convinced, that if the roads near London -were improved in a similar manner, considerable advantages would be -obtained to the correspondence in general, but particularly in places -from ninety to one hundred miles distant. - - We are, with great respect, My Lords, - Your Lordships very obedient humble servants, - CHICHESTER. - SALISBURY. - - _General Post-office, - 20th Dec. 1819._ - - - - - APPENDIX (D.) - - - Certificate and Recommendation by several Peers and Members of - Parliament, to the Right Honourable the Lord Commissioners of the - Treasury, respecting Mr. MᶜAdam’s Claim for remuneration. - -It appears to the undersigned, by the report of a Committee of the House -of Commons of last session, and by their own experience and observation, -that the system of road making, introduced by Mr. MᶜAdam, has already -been of great public benefit, as it facilitates the communications of -the country, and affords useful and universal employment to the -labouring class, with sufficient funds already provided. - -The undersigned are of opinion, that as Mr. MᶜAdam obtained the -information necessary to perfect his system of road making, entirely at -his own expense, and with the labour of many years; and afterwards, by -his exertions and those of his family, reduced the system to actual -practice, and has now put the public in complete possession of his -plans, Mr. MᶜAdam has a claim on the country for remuneration. - -They are further of opinion, that it will be a great means of -encouraging the general adoption of this improved system of road -management, if Government shall be pleased to bestow this mark of their -approbation on Mr. MᶜAdam. - - Chichester, De Laware, Hardwicke, Macclesfield, Salisbury, Beaufort, - G. Clerk, Wm. Rea, Thomas G. Estcourt, Wm. Dickinson, N. Calvert, W. - H. Ashurst, J. Fane, J. N. Fazakerley, Carrington, G. Doveton, - Dacre, Daniel Giles, Wm. Lamb, George Shee, W. Freemantle, Warren - Bulkeley, Grenville, Folkestone, R. Spencer, R. M. Davis. - - - - - APPENDIX (K.) - - - Letter of Postmaster General to the Lords of the Treasury, on Petition - of Mr. MᶜAdam for payment of Balance due to him on account of - services stated to have been rendered by him in the improvement of - the Public Roads. - - My Lords, - -Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam having addressed to us a memorial, relative to -certain claims on account of the services which he states to have been -rendered by him in the improvement of the public Roads of the kingdom, -we have the honour to transmit the same to your lordships for such -consideration as it may appear to you to deserve; and we have to state, -that _the favourable opinions which we entertained and expressed in our -former reports upon this subject, have been confirmed by experience; and -that by employing Mr. MᶜAdam to survey the roads in Lancashire, the most -beneficial results are likely to follow_. - - We are, my Lords, with great respect, - Your Lordships most obedient servants, - CHICHESTER. - SALISBURY. - - _General Post-office, - 6th Feb. 1823._ - - H. Bryer, Printer, Bridge-street, Blackfriars. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - - - - - TRANSCRIBER’S NOTES - - - 1. Silently corrected typographical errors and variations in spelling. - 2. Archaic, non-standard, and uncertain spellings retained as printed. - 3. Enclosed italics font in _underscores_. - -*** END OF THE PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK REMARKS ON THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF -ROAD MAKING *** - -Updated editions will replace the previous one--the old editions will -be renamed. - -Creating the works from print editions not protected by U.S. copyright -law means that no one owns a United States copyright in these works, -so the Foundation (and you!) can copy and distribute it in the -United States without permission and without paying copyright -royalties. 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