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diff --git a/39038.txt b/39038.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..db9b49c --- /dev/null +++ b/39038.txt @@ -0,0 +1,961 @@ +The Project Gutenberg EBook of One dialogue, or Colloquye of Erasmus +(entituled Diuersoria), by Desiderius Erasmus + +This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with +almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or +re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included +with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org + + +Title: One dialogue, or Colloquye of Erasmus (entituled Diuersoria) + Translated oute of Latten into Englyshe: And Imprinted, + to the ende that the Judgement of the Learned maye be hadde + before the Translator procede in the reste. + +Author: Desiderius Erasmus + +Translator: E. H. + +Release Date: March 3, 2012 [EBook #39038] + +Language: English + +Character set encoding: ASCII + +*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK COLLOQUYE OF ERASMUS *** + + + + +Produced by David Starner, Keith Edkins and the Online +Distributed Proofreading Team at https://www.pgdp.net + + + + + +In this version [~e] and so forth indicate scribal abbreviations over +letters. + + P. One dialogue, or Colloquye of Erasmus (entituled + Diuersoria) Translated oute of Latten + into Englyshe: And Imprinted, to + the ende that the Judgem[~e]t + of the Learned maye be hadde + before the Translator pro- + cede in the reste. + E. H. + + [Illustration] + + P. Imprinted at London in Fleetstreete, at the + signe of the Faucon by William Griffyth, + and are to be solde at his shop + in S. Dunstons Churchyard + in the west. + 1566 + + * * * * * + +P. The Translator to the indifferent reader. + +If I were throughlye perswaded (g[~e]tle reader) y^t mine attempt of the +learned were in all points allowed and the order in my translation +correspondent thereunto, I woulde at this present proceede in mine +enterprise, with entent by gods helpe to finishe the translation of the +whole boke: But because I am vnlearned & therfore must not be mine owne +iudge therein, I geue the here a tast of my store for proofe of mine +abilitie: desiring the at the least wise not to be offended at the same so +boldly attemted and simplye perfourmed. For sithe mine entent is good, & my +good wil not small I dare at this present yelde it to thy curtesye. Fare +wel. + +P. Thine in will (though not in power) E.H. + + * * * * * + +_Diuersoria._ + +P. The speakers. + +_Bertulphe._ _William._ + +Why haue men taken suche pleasure and felicity (I pray you) in tariynge ii. +or iii. dayes at Lions together, when they trauaile through the contrey? if +I fall to trauailinge once, be fore suche time as I be come vnto my +iourneyes ende, me thinks I am neuer at quiet in my mind. + +William. + +P. Say ye so indeede? And I put you out of doubt, I wonder howe men can bee +withdrawen thence againe after they be once come thether. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Yea doe? And how so I pray you? + +William. + +P. Mary sir because that is the verye place from whence Ulisses companions +coulde in no wise be gotten by perswasion. There are the sweet Mermaides +(that are spoken of) I warrant ye. Assuredlie, no man is better vsed at +home at his own house then a guest is entertained there in a common Inne. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Why? What is their order and vsage there? + +William. + +P. Some woman or other did alwayes attende vpon the table to cheere the +company with pleasaunt talke and prety conceites. And I tell you the women +are meruailous bewtiful and wel fauoured there. Firste of all the good wife +of the house came & welcomed vs, praying vs all there to bee merye, and to +take well in woorthe suche poore cheere as shee hadde prouided: when shee +was gone, in commeth her Daughter (beeinge a verye proper woman) and tooke +her roome: also whose behauioure and tongue were so pleasaunt and +delectable, that she was able to make euen the grimme Sire Cato to bee +merye and laugh, and besyde that they doe not talke wyth theyr guestes as +with men whome they neuer sawe before, but euen so famylyarlye and +freendlye, as if they were menne that were of their olde acquaintaunce. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Yea, thys is the ciuilytye of Fraunce in deede. + +William. + +P. And because the Mother and the Daughter coulde not bee alwayes in the +waye (for that they muste goe aboute theyr houssholde businesse, and +welcome their other guestes in other places) a pretye little minion Girle +stode forthe there by and by (hauinge learned her liripuppe and lesson +alreadye in all pointes I warraunte you) to make all the pastime that +mighte be possible, and to aunswere (at omnia quare) all such as shoulde be +busye to talke and dally with her, So shee didde prolonge or vpholde the +Enterlude, till the goodwifes Daughter came vnto vs againe. For as for the +mother she was somewhat striken in yeres. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Yea but tell vs what good cheere yee had there (I praye you) for a manne +cannot fill his bellye with pleasaunte talke you knowe well inoughe. + +William. + +P. I promise you faithfullye wee had notable good chere there, in so much +that I wonder how they can entertaine their guestes so good cheape as they +doe. And then when our table was tak[~e] vp, they fedde oure mindes wyth +their merye deuises, leaste wee shoulde thinke the time werysome. Me +thought I was euen at home at mine owne house, and not a trauayler abroade +in a straunge co[~u]try. + +Bertulphe. + +P. And what was the facion in your bed chambers there? + +William. + +P. Why? some wenches went in euerye corner giggelinge there, playing the +wantons, and dalying with vs, of their owne motion they would aske whether +we had any foule gere to washe or no. That they washed and brought vs +cleane againe, what should I make a longe proces or circumstance, we sawe +nothinge els there but wenches and wemen sauinge in the stable. And yet +many times they would fetche their vagaries in thether also. When the +guestes be going awaye, they embrace them, and take their leaue sweetlye +with suche kindnes and curtesye, as if they were all brethern, or (at +least) nighe a kinne the one to the other. + +Bertulphe. + +P. This behauiour doth well beseme Frenchmen peraduenture, how be it the +fashions of Duche lande[1] shall go for my monye when all is done, which +are altogether manlike. + +William. + +P. Yt was neuer my chaunce to see the Contreye yet: and therfore I pray you +take so muche paine as to tell in what sorte they entertaine a straunger +with them. + +Bertulphe. + +P. I am not sure whether it be so in euerye place or no, but I will not +sticke to reherse that whiche I haue sene with mine owne eyes. There no man +biddeth him welcome that comes, lest they shuld seme to go about to procure +a guest. And that of all sauces, they accompt a dishonest and beggarly +thing, and vnmete for their demurenes & grauetie. After you haue stoode +cryinge oute at the doore a good while, at the length some one or other +pereth out his hed at the stoue[2] window like as a snaile should pepe out +of his shell: for they liue ther in stoues, til the somer be almoste in the +Tropick of Cancer. Then must you aske of him, whether you may haue a +lodging there or no? yf he do not geue a contrary beck with his hed, you +may perceiue, that you shall haue entertainment. To those whiche aske where +aboutes the stable standes, he pointes vnto it with the wagging of his +hand. There maye you vse youre horse after your own diet, for no seruaunt +of the house shall once lay handes vnto it to help you. But if it bee an +Inne some what occupied or haunted, th[~e] the seruaunt sheweth there which +is the stable, & telleth you also a place where your horse shal stad, full +vnhansomely for that purpose god knoweth for they reserue the better romes +for the after commers, specially for the noble men, yf you finde any fault +with any thinge, by an by they snub you with this: Sir, if mine Inne please +you not, goe seeke an other elsewhere in the name of god in cities, it is +longe ere they wil bring you hay forthe for your horse, and when they do +bring it, it is after a niuer facion[3] I warraunt you, and yet will they +aske asmuch mony of you for it (in a maner) as if it were Otes. After your +horse is once dressed you come with all your cariage into the stoue with +Bootes, Male, or Packe, and with Dirte, Bag and Baggage and all. Euery man +is vsed to this generally. + +William. + +P. In Fraunce they haue certaine chaumbers for the nonce, where guests may +put of their clothes may wipe or make clean th[~e] selues, may warme them +selues: yea may take their ease to, if they bee so disposed. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Yea, but here is no suche facions I tel you. In the stoue, you pul of +youre Bootes, you pull on youre Shooes, you chaunge youre Shirt if you bee +so minded, you hange vp youre clothes all weate, with raine harde by the +Chimney, and to make youre selfe drye doe stande by the same your selfe, +you haue also water sette readye for your handes, which moste commonly is +so clenlye, that you muste after seeke other water, to washe of that water +againe. + +William. + +P. I commende them as menne not corrupted with to much finenesse or +daintinesse. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Thoughe it be youre chaunce to come thether about iiii. of the clocke at +afternoone, yet shall you not go to supper for all that vntill it be nine +of the clocke at night, and sometime not before tenne. + +William. + +P. How so? + +Bertulphe. + +P. They make nothinge ready til they see all their guestes come in, that +they may serue them all vnder one without more adoe. + +William. + +P. These men seeke the neerest way to woorke, I see wel. + +Bertulphe. + +P. You say true in deede: They doe so, and therfore often times there come +all into one Stooue, lxxx. or xC. Footemen, Horsemen, Marchauntmen, +Mariners, Carters, Plowemen, Children, Wemen, hole and sicke. + +William. + +P. Marye this is a communitye of lyfe in deede. + +Bertulphe. + +P. One kembes his head there. An other doth rubbe of his sweat there. An +other maketh cleane his startops[4] or bootes there. An other belcks out +hys Garlicke there. What needes manye wordes? There is as muche mingle +mangle of parsons there, as was in the old time at the Towre of Babell. And +if they chaunce to see a straunger amonge them, whiche in his apparell +semeth somewhat braue, galaunt and gentlemanlike, they all stand prying +vpon him with their eyes, gasing and gapinge as if some straunge beaste +were brought them out of Aphrick, in so much as after they are once set, +they be eye him stil an end and neuer looke of, as men forgetting th[~e] +selues that they be now at supper. + +William. + +P. At Rome, at Parise, and at Venice, no ma maketh any such wonderment at +all. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Nowe it is a sore matter I tell you to call for ought there al this +while: when it is farre night and they looke for no more guestes at that +time, then commeth forthe an olde stager of the house, with a gray beard, a +polled hed, a frowning co[~u]tenaunce, clad in il fauored apparaile. + +William. + +P. Yea mary suche fellowes as these you speak of, should fill the Cardinals +cups at Rome. + +Bertulphe. + +P. He casting his eyes about, reckeneth vnto him selfe howe manye therebe +in the stoue at all, the moe he seeth there, the greater he maketh his +fire, though the sonne beside doth greatly annoy with his perching heat. +Among them, this is accoumpted the principallest pointe of good +entertainment, if they all sweat like Bulles, that they doe euen drop +again. But if one not vsed to this choking and smotheringe ayre, should +chaunce to open but a chinke of the window to keepe him self from +stifeling, he should by and by haue this saied vnto him: Shut it I pray +you, if you aunswere that you canne not abide it, ye haue this in your nose +for your labor, why? then go seeke you an other Inne, on gods name. + +William. + +P. But me thinkes there can be no greater daunger for health, then that so +many should drawe in and out all one vapour: specially when the body is in +a sweat, and in this same place to eat meate together, and to tarye +together a great while in company, for now I wil not speak of belchinges +that sauour of garlick, nor of fistinge, or fisseling[5] nor of stinking +breths, many there be (I tel you) that haue priuy diseases, and euery +desease hath his proper infection. And surely the moste of th[~e] haue the +spanishe scabbe, or as some terme it the frenche pockes: thoughe now adaies +one nation hathe it commonlye asmuche as an other. I suppose (I tel you) +that there is as great ieobardye in companyinge with these as it is with +lepers, and nowe gesse you howe muche difference is betwene this and the +pestilence? + +Bertulphe. + +P. Tushe man they bee stoute fellowes: they doe scorne theise thinges, and +make as it were no accompt of them. + +William. + +P. But yet they are stout with hazardinge of many a mannes helth I tell you +plainely. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Why? What should a man do? They haue thus vsed them selues euermore, and +it is a token of constancy and stabilitie neuer to varye or geue ouer that +whiche they haue once taken in hand. + +William. + +P. But aboue twentye yeeres agone, there was nothinge more vsed amonge the +Brabanders, then the common Bathes. And now adaies, the same are laied a +side euery where: for this stra[~u]g scabbe (I speake of) hathe taught men +to come no more thether. + +Bertulphe. + +P. But go toe? Harken to the rest of my tale that is behind. That grim +bearded Ganimede coms to vs afterwardes againe, and layeth as many tables +as he then thinkes will serue for the nomber of his guestes, But Lord, what +baggage are the table clothes? if you saw them I dare say you would think +them h[~e]pen cloths, that are taken from the sailes of ships: they be so +course, for he hath apointed that viii. guests shall sit at one table at +the least. Nowe those that are acquainted with the facion of the country, +doe sit downe euery man, where he listeth him selfe, for there is no +diuersitie or cursye I tell you there, betweene the poore man and the +riche, betweene the Master and his seruaunt. They are all one. One as good +as an other, there is heere (as they say) no difference betwene the +shepherd and his dog. + +William. + +P. Yea marye: this is the olde facion when all is done, that Tiranny hath +now abolished and put away from am[~o]g vs: I think Christ liued iump[6] +after this maner on the earth when he was here conuersaunt with his +Apostles. + +Bertulphe. + +P. After they be all set, in commeth the frowning minion againe, and once +more falleth to recken what company he hathe there: by and by retourning he +layeth euery one a trenchar, and a spone of the same siluer: and then after +that, hee setteth downe a drinkinge glasse and within a while bringes in +bread which euery manne (at leysure) chippeth and pareth for him selfe, +whiles the potage is a sethinge. They sit mopinge after thys manner, +otherwhiles a whole houre together, ere they can get any thinge to eate. + +William. + +P. Why? Doe none of the guestes call earnestlye vpon them to haue in the +Supper all this while? + +Bertulphe. + +P. No, none of them all that knowes the Facion of the countrye. At the +laste they are serued with Wyne: but youe woulde wonder to see what small +geare it is, Scoolemen or Sophisters shoulde drinke none other by myne +aduise, because it is so thinne and tarte: how bee it if a guest shoulde +chaunce (beside his shotte) to offer Monye to one, and desyre him to gette +some better Wyne thenne that some other where, because he lykes it not: +they firste make as though they hearde him not: but yet they bee eye hym +with suche a bigge an frowning countenaunce as if the Deuyl should loke +ouer LINCOLN (as they doe saye) If you will not linne[7] callinge vppon +them, thenne they make youe this aunswere. So many EARLES and MARQUESES, +haue lodged here in our house, & yet the time is yet to come, that euer +they founde any fault with our wine. And therefore if ye fancy it not, get +ye packing in the name of God, and seeke an other Inne where ye liste. For +they accompt great men and noble men for men onely in their contrye I tell +you, setting their armes abroade in euery corner of their house for a +shewe. Now by this time they are serued with a soupe, to alay and pacify +their pore hongry and crookling stomackes, well nigh loste for meat, hard +at the heeles of that comes forthe the dishes with greate ceremonie, pompe +or solemnitie. For the firste course they haue soppes or slices of bread, +soaked in fleshe brothe, or if it be a fishe day, in the broth of pulce. +Then nexte they haue an other brothe: and after that they are serued wyth +fleshe twise sod[8], or fishe twise het. And yet, after this, they haue +potage once againe, immediatly after, they haue some stiffer meate til +suche time as they world beinge well amended with them, they set roste on +the table, or sodde[8] freshe fishe, whiche a man can not all together +mislike. But when it comes to that once they make spare and whip it away at +a sodaine I warraunt you, they facion out euery thinge in his dew time & +place. And as the players of Enterludes or comedies, are wonte in their +Scenes, to entermedle theyr Chories, so doe these Duche men serue forthe to +their guests, Soppes and Potage entercha[~n]geably or by course. But they +prouide that the latter inde of the feast be best furnished. + +William. + +P. And this (I tell you) is the poynte of a good Poet. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Besides this it were a sore offence for one all this while to say: Away +with this dishe, no man doth eat of it, here you must sit out your time +appointed, being so euen and iumpe, that I thinke they measure it oute by +some water clockes. At l[~e]gth that bearded Grimson[9] comes forth againe +or els the Inholder him selfe, litle or nothing differing from his +seruauntes in his apparaile and brauery. He asketh what cheere is with vs: +by & by some stronger wine is brought, and they caste a great loue to him +that drinketh lustely: wheras he payes no more money that drinketh moste +then he, that drinketh least. + +William. + +P. I put you out of doubt, it is a wonderful nature of the countrey. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Yea, this doe they in deede: whereas there bee sometime there, that +drink two times somuche in wine, as they paye in all for the shot. But +before I doe make an end of this Supper, it is a wonderful thing to tell +what noise and iangeling of tongues there is, after they begin all to bee +well whitled with wine. What shoulde I neede manye wordes? All things there +haue lost their hearing and are becom deafe. And many times disguised +patches or coxecomes doe come amonge them to make sporte: whiche kinde of +men, althoughe of all other it be most to be abhorred, yet you wil scant +beleue howe muche the Germaines are delighted with them. They keepe sike a +coile with their singinge, theire chatting, their hoopinge and hallowinge, +theire praunsinge, theire bounsinge, that the Stooue seemeth as if it +woulde fall downe vpon their heds, and none can heare what an other saith. +And yet all thys while they, perswade them selues, that they liue as well +as hearte canne thinke, or, as the day is broad and longe to. + +William. + +P. Wel nowe make an ende of this Supper, I pray: for I am weary of so +tedious a Supper my selfe to. + +Bertulphe. + +P. So I will. At the laste when the cheese is ones taken vp, whiche scantly +pleaseth their aptite, onlesse it craule ful of magots, that old +Siuicoxe[10] comes forth againe, bringinge with hym a meate Trenchoure in +his hande, vppon the whiche with chalke he hath made certaine rundelles and +halfe rundelles: that same he layeth downe vpon the table, loking very +demurelye & sadlye all the while. They that are acquainted with those +markes or skoares, doe laye downe their monye, after them an other, then +another, vntill suche time as the trenchoure bee couered, then markinge +those whiche layed downe anye thinge, he counteth or maketh reckening +softely vnto him selfe: if he misse nothing of that which the reckening +comes to, hee maketh a becke or dieugard with his hed. + +William. + +P. What if theer be any ouerplus there? + +Bertulphe. + +P. Peraduenture he woulde giue it them againe, and some whiles they doeso, +if it strike in their braines. + +William. + +P. And is there none that speaketh againste this vnegall reckening? + +Bertulphe. + +P. No, none that hathe any witte in his head, for by and by they woulde +saye thus vnto hym. What kinde of man arte thou? I tell thee thou shalt +paye no more for thy Supper heere, then other men do. + +William. + +P. Marye this kinde of people is franke and free I see wel. + +Bertulphe. + +P. But if one (beeinge werye with trauaile) should desire to go to bed as +soone as Supper is done, they will him tarye, till all the other go to bed +to. + +William. + +P. Me thinkes I se Platoes common welth heere. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Then euerye mannes Cabin is shewed him, & in deede, nothinge elles but a +bare chaumber for all that is there, is but beddes, and the Deuill a whit +there is else beside there, eyther to occupye or els to steale. + +William. + +P. There is neatnesse or clenlinesse I warraunt you. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Yea by roode, euen suche as was at the Supper. The Sheetes peraduenture +were washed halfe a yeere before. + +William. + +P. And how fayres your horses all this while. + +Bertulphe. + +P. They are vsed after the same rate that the m[~e] bee. + +William. + +P. But is this maner of entertainement in eueryplace there? + +Bertulphe. + +P. In some place it is more curteous, in some place againe, it is more +currishe then I haue made rehersall, howbeit generallye it is euen after +this order. + +William. + +P. What would you say if I should now tell you how stra[~n]gers are +entreated in that part of Italy which they call L[~o]bardy, and again in +spaine howe they be vsed, and how in Englande and in Wales for Englishe men +in conditions are halfe Frenche, halfe Dutche as men indifferente betweene +both. Of theise two contries, Welche men say that they are the right +Brittaines first inhabiting the land. + +Bertulphe. + +P. Mary I pray thee hartely tell me, for it was neuer my fortune to +trauaile into them. + +William. + +P. Nay, I haue no laysure nowe at this time, for the Mariner bad me bee +with him at three of the clock, except I would be left behinde, and he hath +a Packette of mine. Another time wee shall haue laysure enough to tell of +these thinges our bellies full. + +[Illustration] + + * * * * * + +Notes by Project Gutenberg Transcriber + + _Explanations of some obsolete words, and in some cases the + transcriber's justification for over-riding the proofreaders' + readings._ + +[1] _et passim_ "Duche lande": i.e. Deutschland = Germany. + +[2] _et passim_ "Stove:" _A sitting-room or bedroom heated with a furnace. +Chiefly with reference to Germany, the Low Countries, Scandinavia, or +Russia_. (OED). This is an older sense than the heating apparatus itself. + +[3] "after a niuer facion": if this is correctly read, the "niuer" does not +seem to appear in the OED, unless it be a form of "never" used as an +adjective. The Latin is _aegre et parce_ "reluctantly and sparingly". + +[4] "startops": Latin _perones_, thick leather boots. + +[5] "fistinge, or fisseling". "Fist": _To break wind_ (OED). The Latin is +_flatum ventris_. "Fisseling" may be assumed to have a similar meaning, +perhaps from Latin _fesiculatio_. + +[6] "iump" (i.e. "jump"): _exactly, precisely_ (OED). The Latin is _Sic_. + +[7] "linne": _To cease, leave off; desist from_ (OED). + +[8] "sod(de)": Past participle of _seethe_ to boil. + +[9] "Grimson": the Latin is merely _barbatus_ "bearded one". Perhaps +connected with "grimsire": _austere, stern, morose or overbearing person_ +(OED). + +[10] "Siuicoxe": I cannot place this English word. Again the Latin is +_barbatus_. + + + + + + +End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of One dialogue, or Colloquye of Erasmus +(entituled Diuersoria), by Desiderius Erasmus + +*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK COLLOQUYE OF ERASMUS *** + +***** This file should be named 39038.txt or 39038.zip ***** +This and all associated files of various formats will be found in: + https://www.gutenberg.org/3/9/0/3/39038/ + +Produced by David Starner, Keith Edkins and the Online +Distributed Proofreading Team at https://www.pgdp.net + + +Updated editions will replace the previous one--the old editions +will be renamed. + +Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no +one owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation +(and you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without +permission and without paying copyright royalties. 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