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diff --git a/36022-0.txt b/36022-0.txt index ec5b339..6111c24 100644 --- a/36022-0.txt +++ b/36022-0.txt @@ -1,31 +1,4 @@ - Slave Narratives - - Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3 - - -This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost -no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it -under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this -eBook or online at http://www.gutenberg.org/license. - -Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States -From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina -Narratives, Part 3 - -Author: Work Projects Administration - -Release Date: May 04, 2011 [EBook #36022] - -Language: English - -Character set encoding: UTF-8 - -*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK -HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER -SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 *** - - - +*** START OF THE PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK 36022 *** Produced by the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at http://www.pgdp.net. @@ -8027,377 +8000,4 @@ piece of wood, such as a stake" (American Heritage Dictionary).—The Works Progress Administration was renamed during 1939 as the Work Projects Administration (WPA). - - - - -*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY -OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: -VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 *** - - - - -A Word from Project Gutenberg - - -We will update this book if we find any errors. - -This book can be found under: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36022 - -Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no one -owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation (and -you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without permission -and without paying copyright royalties. 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You may copy it, give it away or re-use it -under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this -eBook or online at http://www.gutenberg.org/license. - -Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States -From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina -Narratives, Part 3 - -Author: Work Projects Administration - -Release Date: May 04, 2011 [EBook #36022] - -Language: English - -Character set encoding: ISO-8859-1 - -*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK -HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER -SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 *** - - - - -Produced by the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at -http://www.pgdp.net. - - - SLAVE NARRATIVES - - - - - - - - - _A Folk History of Slavery in the United States_ - - - - _From Interviews with Former Slaves_ - - - - - - - - - TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY - - - - THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT - - - - 1936-1938 - - - - ASSEMBLED BY - - - - THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT - - - - WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION - - - - FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA - - - - SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS - - - - - - - - - _Illustrated with Photographs_ - - - - WASHINGTON 1941 - - - - - - - - - VOLUME XIV - - - - SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES--PART 3 - - - - - - - - - Prepared by the Federal Writers' Project of - - - - the Works Progress Administration - - - - for the State of Alabama - - - - [HW:] Handwritten note - - - - [TR:] Transcriber's note - - - - - -INFORMANTS - - - - Adeline Jackson - - - Cordelia Anderson Jackson - - - Agnes James - - - Fred James - - - Isiah Jeffries - - - Thomas Jefferson - - - Henry D. Jenkins - - - Maria Jenkins - - - Paul Jenkins - - - Emma Jeter - - - Adeline Hall Johnson - - - Anna Johnson - - - Jack Johnson - - - James Johnson - - - Rev. James H. Johnson - - - Jane Johnson - - - Jimmie Johnson - - - Mary Johnson - - - Miemy Johnson - - - Tom Johnson - - - Richard (Look-up) Jones - - - Wesley Jones - - - Sallie Layton Keenan - - - Ella Kelly - - - Martha Kelly - - - Mary Jane Kelley - - - Gabe Lance - - - Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence - - - Ben Leitner - - - Mary Ann Lipscomb - - - Govan Littlejohn - - - Easter Lockhart - - - Gable Locklier - - - Walter Long - - - Gillam Lowden - - - Emma Lowran - - - Nellie Loyd - - - Amie Lumpkin - - - Ballam Lyles - - - Eison Lyles - - - Moses Lyles - - - George McAlilley - - - Ed McCrorey (Mack) - - - Richard Mack - - - Jake McLeod - - - Bill McNeil - - - Andy Marion - - - Milton Marshall - - - Charlie Meadow - - - Albert Means - - - Andrew Means - - - Jason Miller - - - Lucinda Miller - - - Cureton Milling - - - Abbey Mishow - - - Sam Mitchell - - - Charity Moore - - - Sena Moore - - - Silas Nelson - - - Susan Nelson - - - William Oliver - - - Albert Oxner - - - Ann Palmer - - - George Patterson - - - Sallie Paul - - - Lina Anne Pendergrass - - - Amy Perry - - - Rob Perry - - - Victoria Perry - - - John Petty - - - Sarah Poindexter - - - Sam Polite - - - William Pratt - - - Henry Pristell - - - Junius Quattlebaum - - - - - -Adeline Jackson - - - *Interview with Adeline Jackson, 88 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"I was born four miles southwest of where I is now, on de other side of -Woodward Station. I was a slave of old Marster John Mobley, de richest -man, de larges' land owner, and wid more niggers than any other white -man in de county. He was de seventh son of de seventh son, so he -allowed, and you knows dat's a sign of a big family, lots of cows, -mules, horses, money, chillun and everything dat's worth havin'. He had -a good wife too; dis de way he got her, he say. She de daughter of old -Maj. Andy McLean, who got a body full of bullets in de Revolution; he -didn't want Katie to marry Marster John. Marster John git on a mule and -ride up in de night. Miss Katie runned out, jump up behin' him, run away -and marry Marster John. They had de same birthday, March 27th, but -Marster John two years older than Miss Katie. Dat day was looked to, -same as Christmas, every year dat come. Big times then, I tell you! - -"My mistress had long hair, techin' de floor and could dance, so Marster -John said, wid a glass of water on top of her head. Marster John got -'ligion and went all de way lak de jailer in de Bible. All de house -jined wid him and mos' of de slaves. It was Baptist and he built a -spankin' good church buildin' down de road, all out of his own money, -and de cemetery dere yet. He called it 'Fellowship.' Some fine -tombstones in dere yet. De finest cost two thousand dollars, dat's his -daughter Nancy's tomb. Marster John and my old mistress buried in dere. - -"When my younges' mistress, name Marion Rebecca, married her second -cousin, Marster Edward P. Mobley, I was give to her and went wid them to -de June place. It was called dat because old Doctor June built it and -sold it to Marster Ed. I nussed her first chillun: Edward, Moses Hill, -John and Katie. It was a large, two-story frame house, with chimneys at -each gable end. Marster Edward got to be as rich as old marster; he -owned de June place, de Rochelle plantation, de Peay place and de -Roebuck place. Yes sir, course us had overseers for so many slaves and -plantations. I 'member Mr. Oze Brown, Mr. Neely and Mr. Tim Gladney. In -course of time I was took off de nussin' and put to de field. I drapped -cotton seed, hoed some, and picked cotton. - -"I don't 'member no poor buckra, outside de overeeers, 'cept a Mr. Reed -dat lived down on wateroe, passin' our house sometime. He was a -Godforsaken lookin' man dat marster or mistress always give somethin'. - -"Our neighbors was de Pearys, de Durhams, de Picketts, de Barbers and -Boulwares. Doctor Henry Gibson was our doctor. All dese folks kep' a -pack of hounds to run deer and foxes. Yes, I has eat many pieces of -deer. Good? I wouldn't fool you, taste it and you'll hunger for it ever -afterward. - -"Yes sir, at certain times we worked long and hard, and you had to be -'ticular. De only whipping I got was for chopping down a good corn stalk -near a stump in a new ground. Marster never sold a slave but swaps were -made wid kin people to advantage, slaves' wives and husbands sometimes. -I never learned to read or write. I went to White Poplar Springs Church, -de Baptist church my mistress 'tended. De preacher was Mr. Cartledge. He -allowed Miss Marion was de flower of his flock. - -"Slaves lived in quarters, a stretch of small houses off from de White -House. Patrollers often come to search for stray slaves; wouldn't take -your word for it. They would search de house. If they ketch one widout a -pass, they whipped him. We got most our outside news Sunday at church. -When farm work was not pressing, we got all of Saturday to clean up -'round de houses, and wash and iron our clothes. - -"Everything lively at Christmas time, dances wid fiddles, pattin' and -stick rattlin', but when I jined de church, I quit dancin'. - -"After de war, a man came along on a red horse; he was dressed in a blue -uniform and told us we was free. De Yankees dat I 'members was not -gentlefolks. They stole everything they could take and de meanest thing -I ever see was shoats they half killed, cut off de hams, and left de -other parts quiverin' on de ground. - -"I married Mose Jackson, after freedom, and had a boy, Henry. Last I -heard, he was at Shelby, North Carolina. We had a daughter, Mary, she -married Eph Brown. She had ten chillun, many gran' chillun, they's my -great-gran' chillun. My mistress was a good Christian woman, she give me -a big supper when I was married. Her house, durin' de war, always had -some sick or wounded soldier. I 'member her brother, Zed, come home wid -a leg gone. Her cousin, Theodore, was dere wid a part of his jaw gone. -My mistress could play de piano and sing de old songs. I 'members -Marster Theodore had trouble wid de words. Dere was a song called -'Jaunita', 'bout a fountain. Marster Theodore would try hard, but would -say, everytime, 'Jawneeta', and de folks would laugh but mistress never -would crack a smile but just go on wid another song. I thinks everybody -should jine de church and then live right. Have prayers in de family -befo' gitting in de bed. It would have good change, 'specially in de -towns I thinks. - -"Yes, women in family way worked up to near de time, but guess Doctor -Gibson knowed his business. Just befo' de time, they was took out and -put in de cardin' and spinnin' rooms. - -"Yes, I see folks put irons in de fire and some throw a big chunk of -fire into de yard to make de screech owl stop his scary sounds. - -"Befo' I forgits, Marster Edward bought a slave in Tennessee just 'cause -he could play de fiddle. Named him 'Tennessee Ike' and he played 'long -wid Ben Murray, another fiddler. Sometime all of us would be called up -into de front yard to play and dance and sing for Miss Marion, de -chillun and visitors. I was much happier them days than now. Maybe it -won't be so bad when I gits my old age pension." - - - - -Cordelia Anderson Jackson - - - *Interview with Cordelia Anderson Jackson, 78 years old* - *157 Kings St. Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -Cordelia lives in a small shack with some friends. She is quite an actor -and a tireless teller of yarns. She still ties her head up in a white -rag and has large eyes set far apart and a very flat nose. She is ebony -colored. She is a firm believer in her religion and she enjoys shouting -on any occasion for joy or for sorrow. - -"White folks tells stories 'bout 'ligion. Dey tells stories 'bout it -kaise dey's 'fraid of it. I stays independent of what white folks tells -me when I shouts. De Spirit moves me every day, dat's how I stays in. -White folks don't feel sech as I does; so dey stays out. Can't serve God -all de time; allus something getting in de way. Dey tries me and den I -suddenly draps back to serving de Holy God. Never does it make no -difference how I's tossed about. Jesus, He comes and saves me everytime. -I's had a hard time, but I's blessed now--no mo' mountains. - -"Ever since I a child I is liked white folks. Dey's good and dey does -not know why dey tells stories 'bout Jesus. I got a heap mo' in slavery -dan I does now; was sorry when Freedom got here. I 'specks I is nigh to -a hundred, but dat's so old. I jest calls myself any whars twixt -seventy-five and a hundred. I recollects slavery, though. Ma was -Charlotte Anderson and she lived in Union County wid de Tuckers, jest -across from de Richards Quarter. - -"Biggest sight I ever see'd was dat balloon when it come down on Pea -Ridge. De man in it everybody addressed as Professor (Prof. Lowe--1861). -He let uncle Jerry git in it. Mr. McKissick helped uncle Jerry up in it. -It was de first balloon ever come to Union county, and 'til dis day I -don't like no balloons. - -"Airplanes jest tickles, I cannot tell you how come, but dey jest does. -I went out dar (throwing her arm in the direction of the landing field) -and see'd 'em light. Dressed-up white folks hopped down out'n it from a -little do' dat a man wid leg'uns and a cap on opened. Thing gwine on wid -lots of burring and all like dat. When dem folks got out, some mo' -clam'ned in. Dat same man opened de do', shot (shut) it, and de plane -tuck off. White folks 'lowed dat it was gwine to 'lanta, Ga. - -"Right dar I 'low'd, when I goes up like dat, I sho ain't gwine up wid -no man--I'se gwine up wid Jesus. - -"Dat white woman [HW: Amelia Earhardt] went up and ain't nobody found -her yet and it been two months. Lawd, she looking fer de world's end. -God don't mean fer womens to do nothing like dat. Womens is stumbling -blocks at times. - -"I got a boy dat been through school. He stays off, but he treats me so -good and talks to me like white folks does; so I calls him, 'white -child'. I 'longs to de church club. He tries to larn me to talk proper -when I goes out to dem meetings, but I fergits how befo' I reaches de -meeting. Us named it de 'Mothers' Club'. 'White child' pays fer me to -'long dar, and when I is down wid spells, dey nurses me. 'White child' -pays fer my 'onsurance' so dat I does not have no worriment to aggravate -my soul. - -"White child birthed one Sunday morning jest a year atter de big -earthquake. It was also Christmas morning, kaise my child drapped a year -to de day atter dat earthquake and I feared dat he was not gwinter have -no sense. But My God, how he can read! - -"One night, Aug. 30th, our house started rocking. We thought a panther -was a-rocking it, kaise my old man had see'd one. He run out wid a gun -and went to de wood pile; den he hollered to me and said, 'Delia, come -out here, de whole world is shaking'. God sho showed his power dat -night. Ever since dat I been fixed wid God. It won't long atter dat, us -heard a noise in our other room. Old man went in dar and see'd a panther -climbing up fer our rations. He grabbed his gun from over de do' and -shot dat panther in de corner. - -"I used to think dat niggers was fools dat called me a nigger. I go and -tell Miss Nellie Tucker. She 'low, 'No, you ain't no nigger when other -niggers calls you one.' Marse William whistle like a partridge; den Miss -Nellie play her pianny. I dance and Marse send fer me a sugar and butter -biscuit. Marse git his banjo and he pick it fer me to sing 'Oh, Bob -white, is your wheat ripe? No, no, not quite.' Dat when I lived as a -little gal on Marse William's home tract, called Musgrove Tract. - -VISION: "Was traveling in a gold chariot to Heaven. De overseer had come -to bleed me, but I went up. Something say to look back and see whar you -been. I looked back and said, 'Lawd, take me whar no rent won't bother -me!' Lawd answer, 'Do not pray dat way. Pray fer Him to do His will'. -Den I axed de Lawd whar is I. He say, 'Did you look down on dem -chimneys?' Den I see'd dat I was in de chariot wid water all under me. -It looked like de sky. - -"To-day, I am so glad to walk about in Jesus' care. I wish people could -see my faith. I am a Christian." - - - - -Agnes James - - - *Interview with Mom Agnes James, 80 years old* - *Claussens, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"Yes'um, I used to live in slavery time, but de Lord above know, I sho -don' really recollect nothin much to tell you 'bout slavery time. I don' -know exactly how old I is. Think I 'bout 80 some odd. Think dat 'bout de -age Bubba Gregg say I is. I tell you, I was so chillunfied in slavery -time, I ain' had no time to study 'bout no age. I say, I was so -chillunfied. Yes'um, dat it. Dat somethin dat I ought to had ax my -grandmammy 'bout how old I is, so den I might could call it up to you -right sharp. Oh, I wishes now I had ax my grandmammy dat word fore she -die. - -"Us belong to Mr. Hector Cameron fore freedom come here. Right down dere -to Salem Church, dat whe' I was born. You hear talk of Miss Janie Little -over dere to Marion, ain' you? Dat who used to be my mittie in dem days. -Yes, mam, boss had pick me out to tend to Miss Janie. You see, he give -all his daughters one of us to have a care for dem. - -"My white folks, dey had a right smart of colored people dey own en far -as I can reckon, dey been spend mighty good treatment to dem all de -time. I know 'bout old Miss used to love to feed us, my mercy! White -folks would send for all us chillun to go up to de big house en get -somethin to eat twixt meals. Yes'um, dey had a colored people quarter -dat been settin way back up on de hill. Had to have a quarter 'cause dat -whe' us been stay all de time old Miss won' stuffin' somethin down we -mouth. I remember, dere used to was de most pretty flowers in de lane -gwine through dem woods from us house right up to old Massa's yard en my -Lord, honey, I did love to be de first one long dere on a mornin to see -could I find a blossom to fetch to old Miss. Look like old Miss would be -so please to see my granny marchin all we chillun up dat path 'cause -when we would go dere on a mornin, she would set right down on de steps -en talk wid us. Would set dere in listen to see could all us say dat -prayin blessin she had learned us to speak fore she would hand us -anything to eat. Den she would give us everyone a spoonful of dis here -worm cure. Great Jerusalem! Miss would make dat herself out dese black -lookin seed mixed up in molasses. I remember, she would bring a big bowl -of dat out dere en would make Pickle tote it round for her while she put -it in us mouth. Yes, mam, Miss would give us all a spoonful of dat every -mornin en den she would ax us de next mornin if any us had any worms. -No, mam, she never didn' give us any other kind of medicine as I can -remember. Just give us dat en den feed us some milk en bread. Dat all -she give us, but I tell you, I was as proud of dat milk en bread as I is -of de rations I get dese days 'cause I never know no different den. -No'um, didn' nobody eat den like dey do now. All de people would make -dey own gardens in dem days en would fix soup en fry meat. I used to -been so glad to get me a 'tatoe en a piece of bread. I thought I was -eatin cake. - -"I never didn' work in no field or nothin like dat no time. When I was a -little small girl, I would stay dere home en play 'bout de yard en nurse -my mammy's baby while she was workin in de field. Yes'um, old Massa -would give her task to pick cotton en hoe cotton en pick peas or -somethin another like dat 'bout all de time. Don' know whe' she work all -day or no, but I know she would always let up at 12 o'clock en come to -de house to get her somethin to eat. Can remember dat good as anything. -Oh, she would have to cook herself when she come home bein' dere wasn' -none of we chillun big enough to cook nothin. I recollects, I used to -get chips en pile dem up for her 'cause she always been tell me, if de -baby go to sleep, to get up some chips en put dem on de steps for her to -hurry en start fire wid. She would cook us meat en bread like corn -hoecake en fry meat de most of de time. Den another time, she would bake -a big round loaf like dat en break it in two en give me half en my -brother Charlie de other part. Would lay a piece of meat on de top of -it. No'um, I reckon 'bout all de people used to cook in de chimney. I -know my mammy used to cook in de chimney en I don' think she thought -nothin 'bout no stove in dem days. Cose if she did, I know we chillun -didn' get it. - -"Yes, Lord, I been married 'bout 16 years fore my husband died. Yes'um, -I had a tolerable good size weddin over dere to Mr. Elija Gregg's house. -Been married in a white dress trimmed wid blue ribbon. You is hear talk -of a cream of tartar dress, ain' you? Oh, my Lord of mercy, dere was a -crowd of people dere dat night to get dey eye full en deyself full, too, -I say. Yes'um, I had four waiters in my ceremony. En had cake en rice en -'tatoe custard en a yearlin pig wid a red apple stuck in he mouth, so -dey tell me. Dat what was for de refreshments. De old man Charles -Reynolds, he was de preacher dere dat night en, say, he eat so much pig -till you could see pig in he face, so dey tell me. Cose I never had no -mind to know nothin 'bout it. Oh, yes Lord, I got seven chillun dat come -here fore my old man die, but dey all done gone en get married en left -me by myself. Dat how-come I stays over here wid Miss Bertie 'cause she -ain' have nobody to stay wid her neither en I tries to help her out -somehow. Yes'um, me en Miss Bertie does rest right well together, I say. - -"Oh, great jumpin mercy, de shake! I sho knows all 'bout dat 'cause I -was stayin right up dere to old man Elija Gregg's place den. I tellin -you, it was a time, honey. I was gwine down side de road to prayer -meetin dat night wid my baby in my arms en dere come such a roarin' en a -rockin' in de elements till I thought my baby had got out my arms en I -was just a hollerin for somebody to come en help me get my baby back. -Been so crazy dat I was lookin in all de ditches for my baby. My -husband, he come a runnin to see what ailed me en say, 'Agnes, what de -matter wid you?' I say, 'My baby lost. Do Lord, whe' my baby gone?' He -say, 'Agnes, you must be ailin in de head. Dere de baby on your arm.' -Yes'um, I was crazy 'cause I had my baby in my arms en didn' know it. -Oh, de people done a piece of hollerin dat night. Everybody was a -hollerin en a prayin. I hear talk three or four of dem got converted in -de spirit dat night. I tellin you, it been a long time fore I got over -dat thing, too, 'cause I was scared most to death. - -"No'um, I never didn' believe in nothin like dat. Never didn' believe in -no conjurin. Don' care what dey say 'bout it, I never didn' believe in -it. Yes'um, I hear people talk 'bout somebody had hurt dem, but dey make -a wrong mistake to say somebody do somethin to dem. Ain' nobody but de -Lord do nothin, I say. I know dere ain' nobody never do nothin to me. -Hear people say dey wear money round dey ankle to keep folks from hurtin -dem, but ain' nobody never bother me, I tell dem. If dey live right, -ain' nobody gwine trouble dem neither. No, Lord, ain' nobody never speak -no harm word to me en I ain' got no mind to harness up myself. - -"Well, it just seems like de world growin wilder for de young folks. Dey -don' never think 'bout nothin 'cept gwine right head first all de time. -I know when I been comin up, I never see no such livin like de people -makin dese days. Dey just gwine head over heels to de worser. Don' never -think near a day dey got to stop some of dese days. - -"I tell de truth, it ain' make no difference which time I think de best -time to live in. Everything went well en good wid me in de old days en -everything still gwine dat way, Thank de Lord, too." - - - - -Fred James - - - *Interview with Fred James (81)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"Yes, I 'member slavery time and de war. I was about 7 or 8 years old. I -belonged to Marse Tom Price. My father, John James, belonged to Madison -Brooks and my mammy belonged to Tom Price. When dey married dey lived -wid Madison Brooks awhile, but dey was wid Tom Price when I was a boy. - -"Of cose I 'member de war. Us chaps, both niggers and white, was made to -go up-stairs in de big house and look out de window to see de soldiers -when dey come. We heard de Yankees marching befo' dey got dar, but dey -come from de other side of de house, facing south towards Caldwells, and -we didn't see dem marching in. Dey stopped at our house and looked -around and asked if marster was at home. We told him dat he wasn't dar. -We was eating apples, and dey asked us whar we got 'em. We told dem dat -we got de apples on de place, and dey asked us for some. We give dem -some apples; den dey left. Marse had carried his fine stock about a mile -off in de woods so de soldiers couldn't find dem; but we didn't tell de -soldiers. - -"We lived in a little log cabin made wid mud between de logs, dat was de -kind of houses Marse had for his slaves. We slept on wood beds wid ropes -stretched tight across in place of slats. Dis held our straw mattress. - -"My father's daddy come from Africa. His name was Emmanuel James. Atter -freedom come he give me a little yearling. We wasn't allowed to have -anything befo' freedom come; and we wasn't allowed to learn to read and -write. Dey whipped us if dey caught us wid a book trying to read or -write. Ma said dey cut off a hand if dey caught you. - -"We raised hogs, sheep, goats, cows and plenty chickens; raised -everything at home, and had a good garden with plenty vegetables. Dem -cows and hogs and other cattle were branded and allowed to graze around -in bottoms of de lowlands whar dar was no fence. - -"My clothes was made from yarn spun by my mammy, and she made my -clothes, too. Marse had my mammy to spin and weave for all de slaves on -de place. But marse and mistress was good to us. He had a nigger -overseer who sometimes brought a nigger to marse when he misbehaved; den -marse would have de nigger overseer to whip him. He had 8 to 10 slaves -all de time. - -"Some slaves dat lived on places close to us would run off sometimes and -hide in de woods, and live dar in a den which dey dug. At night they -would go out and hunt food, like hogs; den kill 'em at night and dress -'em. Most of de day dey would stay in de den. - -"I 'member when freedom come, old marse said, 'You is all free, but you -can work on and make dis crop of corn and cotton; den I will divide up -wid you when Christmas comes.' Dey all worked, and when Christmas come, -marse told us we could get on and shuffle for ourselves, and he didn't -give us anything. We had to steal corn out of de crib. We prized de ears -out between de cracks and took dem home and parched dem. We would have -to eat on dese for several days. - -"We had to work, all day, sun up to dark, and never had Saturday -afternoons off anytime. My mammy had to wash clothes on Saturday nights -for us to wear on Sundays. - -"We chaps played marbles most all de time. Marse used to try to scare us -by telling us dar was spooks. Some of de old folks did believe in -spooks, but I don't know much about dem. We never used much medicine den -but quinine. Folks had lots of chills den, but dey never had any kind of -strokes or things like dat as dey do dese days. - -"We had to get a pass from marse if we went out. If de patrollers caught -us widout a pass dey would whip us. - -"Right atter de war de Ku Klux started. I 'member dem when dey would -march up and down de road. Dey marched most at night, and we could hear -de horses for a long distance as deir feet struck de ground. - -"I married Nellie Wilson, and had 12 children. I got now 6 children; my -wife is dead. I got five grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren. - -"I think Abraham Lincoln and Jeff Davis was good men in deir way, as dey -thought. Booker T. Washington is a great man, and he is done lots of -good for de niggers. I think slavery was good in some ways and bad in -others. I was better off den dan I am now. - -"I jined de church when I was 20 years old, because it was de law--to -trust in de Lawd, you got to belong to de church. - -"I member something 'bout 40 acres of land and a mule dat de slaves -would get, but never come anything about it. When freedom come most of -de slaves hired out as wage hands, cutting wood and working on farms or -any odd jobs dey could get. Dar was lots of new ground, and many of de -niggers got work clearing it up. - -"We didn't get any money in slavery time, but got plenty to eat; and -atter de war, we got a little money and a little to eat. I 'member dat -old Mr. Brown hired me out once about 45 years ago at 30 a day and my -meals. I think de younger generation ain't so good. Dey have deir own -way and don't respect old folks. Dat's de way it is wid both whites and -blacks." - - - - -Isiah Jeffries - - - *Interview with Isiah Jefferies, (age 86)* - *Gaffney, S.C. Rt. 6.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I is what is known as a outside child. My Ma went to Hamlet. I lived on -de Jefferies plantation, below Wilkinsville in Cherokee County. My -father was Henry Jefferies. My mother was Jane Jefferies. My mother's -husband was named Ned. Before her marriage she was a Davis. She was sold -in slavery to Henry Jefferies. I allus lived with my mother, and Ned was -as good to me as he was to his own chillun. My mother had three outside -chilluns, and we each had a different father. Atter she married Ned; den -he jest come to be our Pa, dat is he let her give us his name. She and -Ned had four chillun. - -"My first wife is dead and my second wife is named Alice Jefferies. I -got one child by my first wife, and I ain't got no outside chilluns. Dat -works out bad, at best. None of my folks is living. All of dem is done -dead now; jest me, my wife and my sister's daughter, Emma, who is grown -now. Her Pa and her Ma took and went crazy befo' dey died. Both of dem -died in de asylum. We took Emma, and she ain't jest 'zactly right; but -she ain't no bother to us. - -"First thing I had to do as a child was to mind my Ma's other chilluns -as I was de first outside one dat she had. Dis I did until I was about -twelve years old. My Ma and Ned was working one day and I was minding -her chilluns as usual when I looked up and seed de top of our house on -fire. I hollered and dey come running from de field. De other hands come -with dem kaise I made such a noise hollering. Soon de big folks got de -fire out. Atter dat, Marse Henry had me to leave de house and go to work -fer him. - -"It was spring and I started in chopping cotton. 'Peers dat I got on -pretty well, and dat de overseer liked me from de start. From dar on I -was broke into field work of all kinds and den I did work around de lot -as well. It was not long befo' everybody started calling me 'uncle -Zery', why--I did not know; but anyway dat name still sticks to me by -dem dat knows me well. My grandpa never called me dat, kaise I was named -atter him, and he too proud of dat fact to call me any nickname. I -stayed wid him at his house lots atter I started working fer de marster, -kaise he showed me how to do things. I worked fer him to git my first -money and he would give me a quarter fer a whole day's work. Dat made me -feel good and I thought I was a man kaise I made a quarter. In dem days -a quarter was a lot of money. I spent it fer chawing tobacco, and dat -made me sick at first. Dats all men had to spend money fer in dem days. -Everything was give you on de plantation and you did not need much -money. Sometimes we cooked out in de field and I have cooked bread in de -field in a lid. - -"Ma teached me how to cook befo' I was twelve years old. We had good -things to eat den; more dan my chilluns has dese times. All de slaves -had dere gardens on my marster's plantation. He made dem do it, and dey -liked it. Niggers do not seem to take no pains wid gardens now. Land -ain't soft and mellow like it used to be. In cold weather we had to bank -out 'taters, rutabegas, beets, carrots and pumpkins. De pumpkins and -carrots was fer de hogs and cows. - -"In warm weather we had cotton clothes and in cold weather we had woolen -clothes dat our marster had made fer us by de old ladies on de -plantation. But we did go barefooted all winter until we was grown and -married. We had all de wood we wanted fer fire. We kept fire all day and -all night. We sot by de fire in winter and popped corn, parched pinders -[HW: peanuts] and roasted corn ears. - -"Marster and Mistress had six chilluns. Her name was Ellen and her house -was three stories high. Dere overseers allus lived wid dem. Dere was a -lot of slaves and dey all loved de white folks. De whole plantation was -allus up at sunup. But we did not work very late. I remember de -Patter-rollers, de Ku Klux and de Yankees. Niggers dreaded all three. -Dere was no jail fer us; de Patter-rollers kept us straight. - -"When I got to be a big boy, my Ma got religion at de Camp meeting at -El-Bethel. She shouted and sung fer three days, going all over de -plantation and de neighboring ones, inviting her friends to come to see -her baptized and shouting and praying fer dem. She went around to all de -people dat she had done wrong and begged dere forgiveness. She sent fer -dem dat had wronged her, and told dem dat she was born again and a new -woman, and dat she would forgive dem. She wanted everybody dat was not -saved to go up wid her. - -"De white folks was baptized in de pool first, and den dere darkies. -When de darkies time come, dey sung and shouted so loud dat de -Patter-rollers come from somewhar, but Marster and Missus made dem go -away and let us shout and rejoice to de fullest. Missus had all her -darkies to wear white calico in de pool dat was a-gwine in fer -baptizing. In de sewing-room she had calico robes made fer everybody. My -Ma took me wid her to see her baptized, and I was so happy dat I sung -and shouted wid her. All de niggers jined in singing. De white folks -stayed and saw us baptize our folks, and dey liked our singing." - - - - -Thomas Jefferson - - - *Interview with Thomas Jefferson, 102 years old* - *Shiloh Church, Highway 29* - --_Ellie S. Rice, Anderson, S.C._ - -It is not often that a person 102 years old is seen doing manual labor, -and especially as hard a job as picking cotton. Yet that is just what -Thomas Jefferson was doing, who, as he himself stated, is, "102 years -and 18 days old today." Asked why he was doing this, he replied, "Just -to take a little exercise." - -Thomas lives with his daughter, Florence Humphreys, on a small farm, out -near Shiloh Church, on Highway 29. Until recently, he slept in a little -shack nearby, taking his meals with his daughter. He is too feeble to -live alone now, however. - -Thomas Jefferson was born on the farm of Mr. Jenkins Hammond, on the old -Hammond place, out on the Williamston road, on November 1, 1834. When -Mr. Hammond's daughter, Mary Amanda Pauline, married Elias John Earle, -son of Samuel Girard Earle, who was one of the very first citizens of -Anderson county, Mr. Hammond gave her, as a wedding gift, Thomas -Jefferson's mother and five children, of which Thomas was one. And here -he lived with the Earles on "Evergreen" plantation, for many, many -years. - -During the War Between the States, Mr. Earle operated a corn and flour -mill, and Thomas Jefferson was his miller. Asked if he remembered this, -he replied, "Well, I do remember it. I remember one time we worked all -night Saturday night, all day Sunday and Sunday night, and Monday -morning had ten barrels of flour to send the Confederate army." - -Shiloh (Baptist) Church, nearby, Thomas said, was being constructed at -the time the war started, and was not finished until after the war was -over. The first person buried in the Shiloh graveyard was Elijah -Herring, who was in the Confederate army and became ill and died, and -was brought home to be buried. - -When Samuel Girard Earle died in 1848, and his wife in 1865, they were -buried under a large apple tree at "Evergreen" plantation. Later, their -bodies were removed to the Shiloh graveyard, by their grand-daughter, -Miss Betty Earle. Thomas says he helped to move and rebury the bodies. - -Thomas was at one time a member of Shiloh, but is now a member of the -Mt. Sinai colored church. - -Thomas is remarkably well for a person one hundred and two years old. -His eyes are dim, his steps tottering, but his hearing is good and his -mind is as clear as it ever was. Asked about his appetite, he said, "I -eat anything I can get, I can eat anything." Many people much younger -than he is, and certainly with more money than he has, would envy him -for his splendid digestion. - -Thomas has been on the relief rolls now for several years. It is a -peculiar pleasure for Mrs. A.M. Mitchell, County Director of Temporary -State Department of Public Welfare, to look after Thomas personally, -because her grandmother was the bride to whom he was given, with his -mother and brothers and sisters. The old man eagerly anticipates Mrs. -Mitchell's coming each month, to bring his check and to look after his -comfort. He is very humble and exceedingly grateful for everything done -for him, and says he is expecting to live many more years, with the good -care he is getting. - - - - -Henry D. Jenkins - - - *Interview with Henry D. Jenkins, 87 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Henry D. Jenkins lives in a four-room frame house, which he owns. His -wife, two single daughters, his son and his son's wife and three small -children live with him. The house is constructed on a tract of land -containing four hundred and eighty (480) acres, which Henry also owns. - -He does not suffer with an inferiority complex. He is self-reliant and -thrifty, with a pardonable pride in his farm and his rise from slavery -to a position of respectibility as a church member, citizen, and tax -payer. He is well preserved physically, for his age, 87 years, alert in -his movements and animated in conversation. - -His plantation and home is in the south western part of Fairfield -County, six or seven hundred yards east of State highway #215. - -"Yes sir, tho' I am a 'spectable colored citizen, as you see me; I pays -taxes and owns my own plantation. I was once a slave on de Reese place, -in Sumter County, below Columbia. Just when I come to b'long to Mr. -Joseph Howell, I don't know. I recollects dat Marse Joe had 'bout twenty -families of slaves and dere was six hundred acres in his plantation. - -"My mistress was his wife, Miss Sara. They had four chillun. Miss -Mattie, married Oscar Chappell. Johnnie, married a Miss Lever. Thomas, -married some lady in Columbia, disremember de fam'ly name. Miss Jessie, -married Rev. Huggins, a Baptist preacher, though her folks wasn't of dat -'suasion; they was Methodist. Us niggers was 'structed early in 'ligion. -Took to Cedar Creek and camp meetin'. My white folks had a fine -carriage. A mulatto boy, Adam, was de driver. Sometime I'd go wid him to -meet visitors from de low country at de station, and look after de -baggage and sich. - -"Yes sir, I doesn't deny it, I got many whuppins. Dere's not much to a -boy, white or black, dat don't need a whuppin' sometime on de way up. -When you break a wild spirited colt, they make de best hoss or mule. I -can do more work today, than most of dese triflin', cigaret young mens. -You sees me today, as straight as a arrow and like a wild cat on my -foots. - -"You bet yo' life, my white folks was de bestest in de land. They wasn't -mealy mouthed; they made everybody work, sun to sun, seven days in de -week. But didn't de good Lord set de 'zample? Yes sir, he made us all -work, women in de perils of child birth, drapped cotton seed and corn -kernels. Dr. Turnipseed, dat was our doctor, 'low dat light labor lak -dat good for them. - -"Farm hands got a peck of meal, three pounds bacon, quart of 'lasses, -cup of salt, and two cups middlin' flour, no white flour. Had good warm -clothes in winter, one-piece cotton suit in summer, and de little -niggers went dressed in deir shirt tails from fust of June, to fust of -October. They sho' did, and was as happy over it as de day was long. - -"My mother named Emma. Never married to my daddy, 'cause they didn't -live on de same place and b'long to same master. Daddy b'long to de -Halls. I have a brother by dis same mammy. Daddy go by de name of -Dinkins. He took up wid another woman after freedom, and my brother and -me was 'shame of him. Us 'cided to take Jenkins for our name but keep a -'D' in de middle, so if anything come up, de 'D' could 'cite 'membrance -of who us really is. You see what I mean? - -"Our shoes for de winter was made on de place, out of leather from our -own tan-yard and from our own cow hides. Marster had a good fish pond. -He had a four-hoss gin, though mules pulled it. De lint cotton was -packed in a bale and a screw pit. Baggin' was any old thing, like old -sacks or canvas sheetin'. - -"My mother jined de Baptis' church, and I followed in her foot steps. -Everybody ought to b'long to some church, 'cause it's 'spectable, and -membership in de church is both a fire and a life insurance. It 'sures -you 'ginst hell fire, and gives you at death, an eternal estate in -Hebben. What you laughin' at? It's de gospel truth I'm givin' you right -now. Wish everybody could hear it and believe it. - -"My marster, Joe Howell, went off to de old war. His niggers was so well -trained, dat they carried on for him whilst he was gone and dere was no -trouble. Everything went on just de same as if he was dere. - -"Pat-a-rollers (patrollers) would come often and ketch niggers sometime; -caught my daddy once and whup him good. Ours was a fine body of slaves -and loyal to de mistress and her chillun. - -"Dances? Yes sir, I can hear them fiddles and de pattin' now. Dis de way -de dance was called: 'Balance all; sashshay to your partners; swing her -'round and promenade all; forward on de head; ladies change;' and all -dat. Then de jigs went on. Believe me, them was times! - -"The main drawback on Marster Joe's plantation was, de water on de place -was no 'count. Us had to haul water on a sled, wid a mule, from de -Friday place; dat's de onliest trouble us had. Sometime us had to tie up -fodder and 'tend to de hay in de field on Sunday. - -"I married fust a girl name Sarah, in 1878. Got three chillun by her. -She died. Not good for a man to live alone, de Lord say. I picked out -another Sarah, but called her Sallie. Us has had nine chillun. Three of -dese [TR: are] Sailor, Tera, and Monroe. Monroe lives on my place and -farms 'long side of me. Sam is in Detroit, Michigan; Henry in Flurida -(Florida). - -"When de Yankees come, what they do? They did them things they ought not -to have done and they left undone de things they ought to have done. -Yes, dat just 'bout tells it. One thing you might like to hear. Mistress -got all de money, de silver, de gold and de jewels, and got de well -digger to hide them in de bottom of de well. Them Yankees smart. When -they got dere, they asked for de ve'y things at de bottom of de well. -Mistress wouldn't tell. They held a court of 'quiry in de yard; called -slaves up, one by one, good many. Must have been a Judas 'mongst us. -Soon a Yankee was let down in de well, and all dat money, silver, gold, -jewelry, watches, rings, brooches, knives and forks, butter-dishes, -waters, goblets, and cups was took and carried 'way by a army dat seemed -more concerned 'bout stealin', than they was 'bout de Holy War for de -liberation of de poor African slave people. They took off all de hosses, -sheeps, cows, chickens, and geese, took de seine and de fishes they -caught, corn in crib, meat in smoke house, and everything. Marse General -Sherman said war was hell. It sho' was. Mebbe it was hell for some of -them Yankees when they come to die and give account of de deeds they -done in Sumter and Richland Counties." - - - - -Maria Jenkins - - - *Interview with Maria Jenkins, about 90 years old* - *64 Montague Street, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C._ - -Maria Jenkins, who is about ninety, is very nearly blind, and only by -quiet persistence can she be made to hear; once started, her mind is -clear. She shows no bitterness. Occasionally there are flashes of humor. -Her body is brawny, sturdy and well carried, considering her age. - -Maria Jenkins was a daughter of Aaron Grant; her mother's name is Ellen -Grant, all of whom were owned by Mr. Hugh Wilson of Wadmalaw Island. - -"I b'long Wadmalaw. When de Yankee come I ole 'nuf for mind chillun, and -take um to de field. I go up to Maussa' house ebery day for de milk for -we; and dey give we clabba (clabber) and cow peas and ting out de -garden. We git ebery evening a bushel ob corn grind and hand ober to de -nurse, and him sift out de flour. Yes Mam. He done grind in de hand mill -in de barn yard--de stone mill. Dat been uh big mill too. And dey gib we -uh big piece ob meat--so--(measuring with hands) and sometime chicken. -Rachel cook in de big pot for we chillun, and he dip um out. (She here -explained the big ladle or dipper.) You know dem big ladle. We put um in -we pan. Yes, Ma'am, he name Rachel, and he lick we. We haffa love um or -she lick we." Her huge mouth was illumined by a humorous smile. - -"He teach me to wash de baby clean and put on he dipa (diaper), and if I -ain't do um good he konk my head. When de wah come, my pa put heself -free off to New Orleans; I dunno how he look. I dunno if he libbin or -dead now. My ma dead fust year ob de wah, I hab twelve chillun, and all -dead; I got two grand chillun left--de one in New York--I raise him from -baby atter he ma and pa dead." - -"Your grand son helps you?" - -"Wat dat?", leaning forward with her hand back of her ear. The question -was repeated. - -"Him ain't no man, him my grand daughter, Ellen Jenkins. I raise him -from baby yes, she name Ellen. Him good to me; him help me ebery -minute." - -"Are all your people dead?" - -"De whole nation dead," reflectively, "De whole nation dead--Peggy -dead--Toby dead--all leaning on de Lord." - -"When dem boat come up de ribber, and he shoot, and shoot, de big gun, -dat been de awful time. My ma dead de fust year ob de wah--I dunno if -dem big gun kill um. He kill 'nuf people. - -"Maussa come and he say: 'Who-na (all of you) nigger take care ob -yourself, I must leab to take my fambly away. Will is here; and de cow, -and de pig in de pen, and de chicken all ober de place--I gib you your -freedom for take care ob yourself.' W'en he gone, dem nigger break for -the thick woods. Some dead and some ain't dead." - -Later a camp was established for this plantation of Negroes, back in the -pine woods. When asked what they did after the war, Maria raised her -hands and said: - -"After de wah we all come home, tank de Lord! tank de Lord!" - -"But your master didn't have any money to care for you." - -"Haffa scrabble for yo'self." Said she. - - - - -Paul Jenkins - - - *Interview with Paul Jenkins, 70 years old* - *18 Belser's Alley, Columbia, S.C.* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -_SON OF A SLAVE TELLS OF HIS FATHER'S POLITICAL EXPERIENCES_ - -Paul Jenkins, age seventy, living at 18 Belser's Alley, Columbia, S.C., -is a son of Paul Jenkins, a former slave, who decided to endure the -burdens he had in Colleton County, South Carolina, after he was set free -in 1865, rather than to fly to other places he knew nothing of. There he -won the respect of the white folks and Negroes alike, was repeatedly -elected to office, and lived there happily to the end of his life. - -Here the present Paul Jenkins takes up the story, with: - -"I was born in Colleton County in 1867. My daddy was in office when I -begin to recall things, and he keep in office, by the will of the -people, until I was nearly grown. My mammy, too, was a slave, when she -and daddy marry. She die when I was 'bout twelve years old, and my only -brother, Edgar, was goin' on ten. My daddy never marry again. - -"One day some white men come to see daddy long after mammy was gone, and -they say to daddy: 'Paul, when you gwine to jump the broomstick again?' -My daddy was the only one who not laugh when they say that. He reply: 'I -has no women in view and no weddin' dream in the back of my head. I has -decided a wicked woman am a big bother and a good woman am a bore. To my -way of thinkin', that is the only difference between them.' The white -folks not smile, but say: 'You'll see! Just wait 'til the right girl -come along.' - -"Daddy just seem to make friends of all the people 'bout him, and our -house, close to Smoak, was a big meetin' place most of the time. -Sometimes the visitors are all white men. But at other days the niggers -come and talk, tell funny tales, and laugh. Most of the meetin's at the -house was late at night, 'cause my daddy always go to his office at -Walterboro, on week days. People comin' and goin' there, all the time. -Daddy was sho' popular with the people, generally speakin'. - -"The biggest crowd I ever seen up to that time, was when General M.C. -Butler come to Walterboro in 1882, to speak. He had been United States -Senator since 1876, and was a candidate for re-election. General Butler -much pleased, that day, when many white leaders and daddy call at his -hotel and tell him that daddy had been asked by his neighbors to -introduce him. He say: 'Well, from what I hears, Paul Jenkins can do -that job as well as anybody in the State.' Then he pat daddy on the -shoulder. - -"At the speakin', daddy gets up, and the big crowd claps its hands for -joy, and laughs, too. Daddy not laugh much, just smile. Then he throw -back his shoulders and say: - - General Butler, lak Moses, led us forth at last, - The barren wilderness he pass'd - Did on the very border stand - Of the bless'd Promise Land, - And from the misty mountain tops of his exalted wit, - Saw it himself and showed us it! - -"'That's why we am sendin' him back----'. That was all I hear. Daddy not -allowed to finish. The people riot with pleasure, and General Butler say -the tribute am de finest he ever hear, and smile at daddy sittin' there -on the platform with the other big folks. At another time, daddy has a -nigger lawyer runnin' 'gainst him for County Commissioner. The lawyer's -name was Amphibious McIver. They begin the campaign at Cottageville. -McIver speak first. Daddy follow, and begin with: - - A bullfrog tied by its tail to a stump, - It rear and it croak, but it couldn't make a jump! - -"The white folks and the niggers clap, stamp, throw hats, and laugh; -finally, marchin' up to the table to grab daddy and carry him up the -street on their shoulders. He keep sayin': 'Boys, why don't you let me -finish my speech?' They would laugh and say: 'Paul, you done made de -best speech in de world!' Daddy win at the 'lection, in a big way. - -"My daddy learn to read, write, and cipher while he was a slave. The -Jenkins family help him, he say, 'cause he always keep the peace, and -work as he was told to do. When he's set free, that white family help -him get settled and loaned him books. He go to Charleston 'bout 1868 and -buy an armful of books and studied at night or whenever he had the -chance. That is why he was able to make the political races which he -make and profit by. He send me and my brother, Edgar, to school, so that -we learn a good deal in books. Edgar, he fidgitty lak, and decide he go -to Pennsylvania and make a fortune! - -"Edgar got work in a steel mill at Johnstown, soon after he got there, -and had considerable money, when he was sent to the hospital with -pneumonia. He pull through that sickness and go back to his job, but the -big flood come (May 31, 1889) and the girl he was to marry was among the -2,000 unknown people who was drowned, and he never has married--peculiar -lak our daddy, don't you think? I just been married to one. She is 68 -and I's 70 and I may say we's through, too! - -"I specialized on bridge-buildin'. I has helped build a sight of bridges -in my time, travelin' as far as Memphis, Tenn., in that work. I has made -oodles of money, but my dollars always has wings and, one way or the -other, they get away from me. Still me and my old woman not sufferin' -much and we hopes, when we goes away for good, we goes together." - - - - -Emma Jeter - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Emma Jeter* - *21 Long Twelve, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Lordy, Honey, I sho was born in slavery and I is proud o' it too. Ole -Marse Cole Lawson was my ole marster. When I axed him how old I was, he -allus 'lowed something like dis, 'you is older than you is good', and -dat all he ever said 'bout my age. Sweet Dreams (her grand daughter), -come here and fetch me a drink from de well to wet my mouth! My -grand-daughter stay wid me at night. When she doan stay, some o' de -other grand uns stays. Sometime it's jest me and Sago here all alone. I -jes' sets and looks at him at night while he sleep. He work de rich -white folks' flower yards fer 'em, and dat brings him in at night real -tired. My grand-daughter's real name is Marguerite Porter, but nobody -don't hardly know dat; kaise everybody call her Sweet Dream, her lil -baby name. She my oldest daughter's fifth chile. My feelings tells me I -is ole, and my white folks 'll tell you I was born in slavery, 'cept dey -is all dead. - -"Light furs' struck me on de large plantation o' Ole Marse Cole Lawson, -de paw o' Mr. Victor Lawson. Mr. Victor ain't no spring chicken no mo' -hisself. Dat over in Sedalia in de Minter Section. You kno's 'bout de -large plantation o' Marse James E. Minter, dat gib de section its name? -(CHS show boundaries of Minter lands). Way back over dar whar I was -born. - -"Paw stay in Union County. Maw was sold to a man name Marse Bailey Suber -over in Fairfield, while I still a suckling. At dat time, my paw was -bought by a widder woman, Miss Sarah Barnett, in Union Cnty. Lawd Jesus! -Dat separate my maw and paw. Maw tuck me 'long wid her. Maw name Clara -Sims. When Me and maw went to Fairfield, us didn't stay dar long 'fo ole -man Harrison Sartor of Santuck, bought my maw. Us glad to git back to -Union. I was a big size gal by dis time and I start to be de waiting gal -in my new Marse's house fer his wife, Miss Betsy. Miss Betsy had one -sister, Miss Nancy Wilson, dat live wid her. Her missus and old Marster -and dere son, Willie, was all dat I had to wait on, kaise dat was all -dar was in de household. - -"God-A-Mighty! Is you gwine to fill up dat book wid all dat I says? -Well, Marse Harrison didn't 'low paw to see maw 'cept twice a -year--laying-by time and Christmas. My paw still 'longed to Miss Sarah -Barnett. Dat's 'zactly why I is got five half-sisters and one-half -brother. Paw got him another wife at Miss Sarah's. Miss Sarah want young -healthy slaves. Maw had jes' me and Ann. Ann been daed, Oh, Lord, forty -years. Dis all to my recollections. - -"Is you gwine to fix fer me and Sago to git some pension? Gawd naw, some -dese lil babies whats 'er sucking de maw's titties is gwine to git dat -pension. Us all gwine to be daed 'fo it even come out. You ain't gwine -to even sho' dat to no Gov'ment man; no Lawd, ain't never thought I's -gwine to git it. - -"Yes, Honey, I was in Fairfield den, but I 'members when crowds o' men -come in from de war. All us chilluns seed mens coming and us run and -tuck off fas' as us could fer de nearest woods, kaise us wuz dat scared, -dat dem mens gwine to git us. Atter dat, us found out dey was our own -folks. Us had done tuck and run from dem den. - -"Chile, you come back when Sago here, and us tell you dat book full, sho -nuff." - - - - -Adeline Hall Johnson - - - *Interview with Adeline Hall Johnson, 93 Years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Adeline Hall's husband was Tom Johnson but she prefers to be called -"Hall", the name of her old master. Adeline lives with her daughter, -Emma, and Emma's six children, about ten miles southeast of Winnsboro, -S.C., in a three-room frame house on the Durham place, a plantation -owned by Mr. A.M. Owens of Winnsboro. The plantation contains 1,500 -acres, populated by over sixty Negroes, run as a diversified farm, under -the supervision of a white overseer in the employ of Mr. Owens. - -The wide expanse of cotton and corn fields, the large number of dusky -Negro laborers working along side by side in the fields and singing -Negro spirituals as they work, give a fair presentation or picture of -what slavery was like on a well conducted Southern plantation before the -Civil War. Adeline fits into this picture as the old Negro "Mauma" of -the plantation, respected by all, white and black, and tenderly cared -for. She has her clay pipe and stick ever with and about her. There is a -spacious pocket in her dress underneath an apron. In that pocket is a -miscellany of broken pieces of china, crumbs of tobacco, a biscuit, a -bit of wire, numerous strings of various colors, and from time to time -the pipe becomes the warm individual member of the varied assortment. - -Her eyes are bright and undimmed by age and the vigor with which she can -telegraph her wants to the household by the rappings of that stick on -the plank floor is interesting and amusing. - -She is confident that she will round out a century of years, because: -"Marse Arthur Owens done tell me I'll live to be a hundred, if I stay on -his place and never 'lope away wid any strange young buck nigger. - -"I's not so feeble as I might 'pear, white folks. Long time I suffer for -sight, but dese last years I see just as good as I ever did. Dats a -blessin' from de Lord! - -"Who I b'long to in slavery time? Where I born? I born on what is now -called de Jesse Gladden place but it all b'long to my old marster, -William Hall, then. - -"My old marster was one of de richest man in de world. Him have lands in -Chester and Fairfield counties, Georgia and Florida, and one place on de -Red River in Arkansas. He also had a plantation, to raise brown suger -on, in old Louisiana. Then him and his brudder, Daniel, built and give -Bethesda Church, dats standin' yet, to de white Methodis' of Mitford, -for them to 'tend and worship at. He 'membered de Lord, you see, in all -his ways and de Lord guide his steps. - -"I never have to do no field work; just stayed 'round de house and wait -on de mistress, and de chillun. I was whupped just one time. Dat was for -markin' de mantel-piece wid a dead coal of fire. They make mammy do de -lashin'. Hadn't hit me three licks befo' Miss Dorcas, Miss Jemima, Miss -Julia, and Marse Johnnie run dere, ketch de switch, and say: 'Dat enough -Mauma Ann! Addie won't do it agin'. Dats all de beatin' I ever 'ceived -in slavery time. - -"Now does you wanna know what I do when I was a child, from de time I -git up in de mornin' to de time I go to bed? I was 'bout raised up in de -house. Well, in de evenin', I fill them boxes wid chips and fat -splinters. When mornin' come, I go in dere and make a fire for my young -mistresses to git up by. I help dress them and comb deir hair. Then I -goes down stairs and put flowers on de breakfas' table and lay de Bible -by Marse William's chair. Then I bring in de breakfas'. (Table have to -be set de night befo') When everything was on de table, I ring de bell. -White folks come down and I wait on de table. - -"After de meal finish, Marse William read de Bible and pray. I clear de -table and help wash de dishes. When dat finish, I cleans up de rooms. -Then I acts as maid and waitress at dinner and supper. I warms up de -girls' room, where they sleep, after supper. Then go home to poppy John -and Mauma Anne. Dat was a happy time, wid happy days! - -"Dat was a happy family. Marse William have no trouble, 'cept once when -him brudder, Daniel, come over one mornin' and closet wid Marse William. -When Marse Daniel go, Marse William come in dere where me and de -mistress was and say: 'Tom's run away from school'. (Dats one of Marse -Daniel's boys dat 'tended school at Mt. Zion, in Winnsboro) Her 'low: -'What him run away for?' 'Had a fool duel wid a Caldwell boy,' him say. -I hear no more 'bout dat 'til Marse Tom come home and then I hear -plenty. White folks been laughin' 'bout it ever since. Special talk -'bout it since Marse Tom's grandson b'come a United State Judge. Bet -Marse Dan Hall told you 'bout it. Want me to go ahead and tell you it my -way? Well, 'twas dis a way: Marse Tom and Marse Joe Caldwell fell out -'bout a piece of soap when they was roomin' together at school. Boys -crowd 'round them and say: 'Fight it out!' They hit a lick or two, and -was parted. Then de older boys say dere must be a duel. Marse Joe git -seconds. Marse Tom git seconds. They load guns wid powder but put no -bullets in them. Tell Marse Joe 'bout it but don't tell Marse Tom. Then -they go down town, fix up a bag of pokeberry juice, and have it inside -Marse Joe's westcoat, on his breast. Took them out in a field, face -them, and say: 'One, two, three, fire!' Guns went off, Marse Joe slap -his hand on his chest, and de bag bust. Red juice run all over him. -Older boys say: 'Run Tom and git out de way.' Marse Tom never stop 'til -him git to Liverpool, England. Marse William and Marse Daniel find him -dere, sent money for to fetch him home and him laugh 'bout it when he -git back. Yes sir, dat is de grandpappy of Marse Lyle Glenn, a big judge -right now. - -"De white folks near, was de Mellichamps, de Gladdens, de Mobleys, -Lumpkins, Boulwares, Fords, Picketts, and Johnsons. - -"When de Yankees come, they was struck dumb wid de way marster acted. -They took things, wid a beg your pardon kind of way, but they never -burnt a single thing, and went off wid deir tails twixt deir legs, kinda -'shame lak. - -"After freedom I marry a preacher, Tom Johnson. Him die when in his -sixties, thirty years ago. Our chillun was Emma, Mansell, Tom, and -Grover. Bad white folks didn't lak my husband. Dere was a whiskey still, -near our house where you could git three gallons of liquor for a silver -dollar. Him preach agin' it. Dat gall both makers and drinkers. Him -'dured persecution for de Lord's sake, and have gone home to his awards. - -"In slavery, us have all de clothes us need, all de food us want, and -work all de harder 'cause us love de white folks dat cared for us. No -sirree, none of our slaves ever run 'way. Us have a week off, Christmas. -Go widout a pass to Marse Daniel's quarters and they come to our'n. - -"Dr. Scott and Dr. Douglas 'tend sick slaves. I don't set myself up to -judge Marse Abe Lincoln. Dere is sinners, black and white, but I hope -and prays to git to hebben. Whether I's white or black when I git dere, -I'll be satisfied to see my Savior dat my old marster worshipped and my -husband preach 'bout. I wants to be in hebben wid all my white folks, -just to wait on them, and love them and serve them, sorta lak I did in -slavery time. Dat will be 'nough hebben for Adeline." - - - - -Anna Johnson - - - *Interview with Anna Johnson (75)* - *Rt.4, Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I sho is spry, kaise I sho is done took care of myself and I done dat -good, too. I know Will Evans who is 72 and he is all bent over and -wrinkled and all stewed up. Dat's de way folks wants to see you befo' -dey calls you old, but dey ain't gwine to see me like dat, 'deed dey -ain't. Most folks calls me de youngest, but I was born on de 30th day of -July, and I is passed by 75 Julys and still gitting around better dan -some dat is seed but 60 Julys. - -"Well does I remember when my young marster, John Kitchens, went to de -'Federate War. He was a big fat feller, and jolly. De morning he left, -he come through de yard leading a fine bay. All of us was dar to see him -off. We had fetched him things, but he say dat you couldn't carry -nothing to war but a pack on your back and he laid dem all down and -wiped his eyes and rode off wid a big yell to us. Dat was de rebel yell -and we answered back. - -"One morning de very next week we heard our young missus hollering and -we went to see what de trouble was. She had got word dat he had done -gone and got kil't by a Yankee. We all cried. De little chilluns, John, -Will, Ella and Bob cried, too. Missus went to her ma and pa, Mr. Green -and Miss Sallie Mitchel, near Trough Shoals. Frankie Brown and Malissa -Chalk went wid her to her pa's. Our plantation was awful big. It was -sold and us wid it. - -"Wasn't long till young Missus married again and went to Virginia to -live. Frankie and Malissa come back to our plantation. Den slavery was -over and dat is de last dat I ever heard of our Missus." - - - - -Jack Johnson - - - *Interview with Jack Johnson, 84 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"You see me right here, de sin of both races in my face, or was it just -de sin of one? My Marster was my father, his name was Tom Reed, and he -lived six miles from Lancaster Court House. Dats where I was born. My -mammy name Jane, don't know where she come from. My marster was kind to -us. I done no work much, just picked peas and sich like during de war. I -was my mammy's only child, and when de war was over, and I grow up, I -left dere and come to Cedar Creek, low part of Fairfield County. I marry -a gal, Bella Cook, and us had sixteen chillun, thirteen of them is a -livin' now. I then marry Hannah Dubard, a widow. She and me have had no -child. - -"I b'long to de Sanctified Church, and you have to go down into de water -and come up straight way out of de water to b'long to dat church. Where -is it? Its on Little Cedar Creek in dis county. Who de preacher? His -name is the Reverend Edmunds. Us sings spirituals, one is, 'Dat Heavenly -Railroad Train', another is 'Dere is a Rock in my Heart', another, 'So -glad I'm here, but I'd rather be up yonder Lord'. Some colored churches -'sinuate a child born out of wedlock can't enter de kingdom of heaven. -Our church say he can if he ain't a drunkard, and is de husband of one -wife and to believe on, and trust in de Lord as your Savior, and live a -right kind of life dat he proves of. Dat seem reason to me, and I jine -and find peace as long as I does right. - -"Never was sick a day in my life, can plow yet, eat three meals a day, -but can't sleep as much as I use to, six hours plenty for me now. I's -just here today findin' out 'bout dat old age pension dats a comin'. -Will you kinda keep a eye on it for me and let me tend to de ox and de -grass at my home on Little Cedar Creek? A short hoss is soon curried, so -dats 'bout all I kin 'member to tell you now." - - - - -James Johnson - - - *Interview with James Johnson, 79 years old* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -_THE COTTON MAN_ - -James Johnson lives with a sister at 1045 Barron Street, College Place, -[HW: Columbia], S.C. He is incapable of self support on account of age, -ill health, and impaired feet. One of his feet was mashed off and the -other badly damaged by handling bales of cotton several years ago. He -subsists on what his sister and other people are able to give him. - -"I has been livin' right here in Columbia for the past thirty-six years. -I has worked in de cotton business, first as ginner and then wid cotton -buyers, ever since I has been here. I knows all de grades of lint cotton -and can name them right now. (He ran through the different grades fairly -correctly.) - -"I learned all I knows 'bout cotton and de grades from Mr. M.C. Heath -and Mr. W.E. Smith, cotton buyers in Columbia for thirty years or more. -They thought so much of my knowledge of cotton, dat they sent me many -times to settle claims wid big men and big buyers.[1] - - [1] Verification not available. - -"It ain't what a nigger knows dat keeps him down. No, sir. It is what he -don't know, dat keeps de black man in de background. White folks dat is -business folks, pays no 'tention to our color as much as they does to -dat money makin' power us has. Of course, de white man sticks to his -color and you can't blame him for dat. If de nigger shows dat he is -willin' to work and to learn to be business lak, make money and walk -straight wid his boss and fellowman, de better class of de white people -is gwine to treat him right. I knows what I's tellin' you is so, from my -own 'sperience wid Mr. Heath and Mr. Smith. They always treated me -better than I deserved and even now in my old age, deir folks and deir -friends gives me money, dat keeps me out de poorhouse. - -"No, sir, I don't 'member de Civil War a-tall myself but I has heard all -'bout it from my own folks and de white folks I has worked wid. It seems -lak I knows too much 'bout them awful times. I sho' am glad I didn't -come 'long then. I feels and knows dat de years after de war was worser -than befo'. Befo' de war, niggers did have a place to lie down at night -and somewhere to eat, when they got hungry in slavery time. Since them -times, a many a nigger has had it tough to make a livin'. I knows dat is -so, too, 'cause I has been all 'long dere. - -"Many niggers have gone north to live, since freedom, but de most of -them either comes back south again or they wants to come back. De north -don't suit de nigger. Cold climate lak they has up dere is too hard on -him. He has thin blood and you knows dat a thin pan gwine to git hot -quicker than a thick one and cold de same way. You see a heap of niggers -is lak wild animals, in a way. He laks to eat a heap, sleep a heap, and -move 'bout slow. When he goes up north he has to step 'round fas', -'cause if he don't, he gits in de way of them Yankees dat move 'bout -quick. - -"De black man is natchally lazy, you knows dat. De reason he talks lak -he does, is 'cause he don't want to go to de trouble to 'nounce his -words lak they ought to be. When he says 'dat' he saves a letter, same -way wid 'dis' and nearly all other words. It ain't after savin' so much; -he is just too careless and lazy to care 'bout it. A nigger wants what -is in sight and not dat what he can't see; it can look out for itself. I -is sorry I has to say all dis 'bout my own color but it is de truth. De -truth makes you free and runs de devil. I is a nigger myself and I knows -what they is and what they does. - -"Is de nigger 'ligious? Yes, sir, many of them is very 'ligious widout -'ligion. He takes all dat from white folks. So many think 'ligion is -gwine to git them somethin' widout workin' for it and fool people by -makin' them think they is good and can be trusted and all dat. But I -'spects some of them is right, even at dat, 'cause if they ain't got -'ligion they sho' ain't got nothin' in dis world. I pays no 'tention to -all dis 'gwine on' lak I see some 'ligious folks does. Maybe I wouldn't -be in de fix I is, if I paid more 'tention to churches and all dat. I -believes in churches and good folks but I don't practice them good -things lak I ought to. Boss, if you take de dollar out of 'ligion and de -churches, you sho' would have to hunt for them. I believes dat. I don't -see no 'ciples gwine 'bout a preachin' and doin' good, lak I has heard -they once done, barefooted and askin' no pay. De preachers dese days is -a ridin' in de finest automobiles and you sho' better look out for -yourself, if you don't, you is gwine to git run over. - -"I has been a good man, in body, all de time since I got grown. For many -years I didn't know my own strength. I never seen a bale of cotton I -couldn't pick up and tote where I wanted to, by myself. You see dese -foots of mine? They was mashed off, from drappin' bales of cotton on -them, back yonder many years ago. - -"I 'members mighty well, when de fust skyscraper was built in Columbia. -My bosses was one of de fust to have a office in dere. Dat was de Loan -and Exchange Bank Building, on de corner of Washington and Main streets. -I has been here and seen dis city grow from a small place to what you -see 'tis now. - -"My mammy and daddy b'long to Mr. Andrew Johnson of Orangeburg County, -of dis State. They said dat they was treated mighty good by deir marster -all de time they was slaves. My daddy took his old marster's name. I was -born a slave but all I knows is what I has heard. Some of it might be -right and some might be wrong." - - - - -Rev. James H. Johnson - - - *Interview with James H. Johnson, 82 years old* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -"My name is James H. Johnson. I was born December 20, 1855, at the town -servants' quarters of Alfred Brevort at Camden, South Carolina, and that -was home until I was turning into twelve years of age. I was nearly ten -years old, when the army of General Sherman came to Camden. I talked to -some of the soldiers, soon after they arrived." - -Such was the greeting of the Rev. James H. Johnson; a retired, and well -educated Methodist Episcopal minister, when a WPA reporter called at his -residence, 2029 Marion Street, Columbia, South Carolina, and asked for -an interview. He sat in his study, furnished for comfort and equipped -about as well as any study, of this kind, in Columbia. - -"My mother," he explained, "was one of the maids at the Brevort home, -and my father was one of the overseers of the plantation. We did not -hear about President Lincoln's freedom proclamation in 1863, but the -status quo of slavery kept right on as it had been until Sherman's army -came through. You know General Lee surrendered the same spring, and we -learned we were free. - -"In 1866 my father bought four acres in the vicinity of Camden and -improved it with a house and barn, and we lived there for several years. -My father went into the mercantile business in Camden and prospered. -There I went to the public schools. We had teachers from the North, and -I finished all the grades. There were no high schools in the state at -that time. - -"We had our own home-raised hams and plenty of food products in our -quarters, when my mother and I heard shooting nearby. We stepped into -the yard and saw a big number of soldiers shooting at a running white -man of the community. They did not hit him. In a moment or two five -soldiers strode into our yard and we were scared at first, but they told -us they were friends, and one of them spied the hams and asked if they -belonged to the big house. When told that they were ours, they said they -were hungry, and mother fixed them a dinner of ham and eggs and plenty -of other things. They thanked us and left, doing no harm. - -"Before they left, I noticed a crowd of soldiers at the Brevort home. I -ran there, and told the troops, please, to do no damage to the premises, -as the mistress, then in charge, was the best friend my mother and I had -ever had. They left soon afterward, showing no animus toward the Brevort -family and taking nothing away. - -"We never received any aid from the Freedmen's bureau, for we did not -need it. After I finished the public school work at Camden and helped my -father in his store for a time, I entered the University of South -Carolina, in October, 1874 and stayed there until 1877. You know there -was a change in government in 1876, and Negroes were excluded from the -university in 1877. I was in my junior year, when I left. - -"I returned to Camden and taught school in Kershaw County for ten years. -During that time I opened school in the Browning Home, which still -stands in Camden. In the meantime, I had been an interested member of -the Methodist Episcopal Church since my early years, and I was made an -elder in that denomination in 1888, and sent to Columbia as pastor of -the Wesley Methodist Church. - -"When I came here as pastor, that church stood on the corner of Sumter -and Gervais streets, on the site where the United States post-office now -stands. The congregation sold that corner in 1910 and built the brick -church at Barnwell and Gervais streets. I was the pastor all that time, -retiring in 1930 due to physical feebleness. The congregation of that -church has always been rather small. This accounts for my doing other -work. I was a clerk in the internal revenue office in Columbia for -eighteen years. - -"Now, I am a notary public and make some income from that. The church -gives me a small pension, and I advise and do literary work for a large -number of Negro residents. In that way, I keep fairly busy and my family -has never gone hungry. I did preach some, a few years ago. I am now too -feeble to undertake that task, and have to be content, mostly at home." - -(Reporter's Note: The Rev. James H. Johnson speaks no dialect. He speaks -choice, grammatical diction and has a most pleasing personality. His is -one of the very few Methodist Episcopal Churches in South Carolina for -Negroes. He says he is glad the church is now seeking to void the split -over slavery in 1860. He resides in a comfortable home at 2029 Marion -Street, Columbia, S.C.) - - - - -Jane Johnson - - - *Interview with Jane Johnson, 90 years old* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -Jane Johnson is living with her niece at 1430 Harden Street, Columbia, -S.C. She is of small statue, dark, not black, plump and apparently well -cared for. On account of her age and bodily afflictions she is incapable -of self-support. Her niece is unmarried, owns a comfortable home, works -and provides for her grandmother in a good and satisfactory manner. - -"Come in, white folks, take dat chair and set down. I hears dat you -wants to talk to me 'bout myself and my master in slavery time. My name -is Jane Johnson and I's 'bout ninety years old, from de best 'membrance -I has from my white folks friends and my own people. One thing I does -know, I's been here so long, dat I sometimes think I's near 'bout a -hundred years old. - -"I b'long to Master Tom Robertson. My mistress' name was Ophelia. I -didn't see her much in slavery time, 'cause she stayed in de big house -on Arsenal Hill, Columbia, S.C. De onliest time I see her a-tall, was -when I was sent to de big house for somethin' and dat wasn't often. -Master and mistress had heaps of chillun, 'mong them was twins, all dead -now, if I 'members right, 'cept Master Tom Robertson, a grandson and a -rich man too; he living right here in Columbia. My old master lived in -Columbia but his plantation, where us slaves lived, was 'bout four or -five miles from Columbia on de Sumter road, just beyond de soldiers -hospital (Veterans Hospital), dat's right. - -"Master Tom come to de plantation every day 'cept Sundays and sometimes -he come dat day, 'specially in crop season. He never talked to us slaves -much, just talked to de overseer 'bout us all, I reckon. De overseer was -a nigger and de meanest man, white or black, I ever see. Dat nigger -would strut 'round wid a leather strap on his shoulder and would whip de -other slaves unmerciful. He worked us hard from sunrise to sunset every -day in de week, 'cept some Saturday evenin's. 'Most of de grown slave -women knocked off from field work at dinner time on Saturdays and done -de washin' for de rest of de slaves. - -"Yes sir, us had a plenty of rations to eat; no fancy vittles, just -plain corn bread, meat and vegetables. Dere was no flour bread or any -kind of sweet stuff for de slaves to eat. Master say sweet things -'fected de stomach and teeth in a bad way. He wanted us to stay well and -healthy so us could work hard. - -"Master Tom was good to us, course he was, 'cause he didn't see us much -no way. But dat nigger overseer was de devil settin' cross-legged for de -rest of us on de plantation all de time. I never has believed dat master -'tended for dat nigger to treat us like he did. He took 'vantage of his -bein' 'way and talk soft talk when he come again. Yes sir, he sho' did. - -"Not very long after de Yankees come, us was told dat de niggers was -free. You might think dat was a happy day for us slaves, but I didn't -think lak dat. I was kinda lonesome and sad lak. Us slaves was lost, -didn't know what to do or where to go. Don't you think dat was a sad -time? - -"How old was I when I done my courtin'? What's dat? Dat courtin' stuff -is what white folks does, no nigger knows what dat fancy thing is. Us -just natchally lives together; men and women mates lak de animals out -dere. Colored people don't pay no 'tention to what white folks call -love, they just 'sires de woman they wants, dat's all. I married dat man -of mine, Tilghman Thompson, and us got 'long right smart, 'til he die. I -got 'nother one, Anderson Johnson, and he die too, so here I is, left -here yit. - -"You knows de black man has had a long, hard road to travel since he was -first brought to this country. From de first, he b'long to de white man -to be took care of and to work. Some colored folks 'pear to be doin' -right well dese days but back yonder long befo' I was born, I's been -told, they didn't know how to provide for themselves. What I wants to -know, what de nigger gwine to do widout de 'sistance of de white man? -What they has got come from them, you knows dat. I hear some of them -growlin' 'round, dat they is gwine to do dis and gwine do dat and they -don't do nothin', 'cept talk too much. They sho' better do right; live -in peace and git somethin' dat will stay with them. - -"Maybe I's wrong to say dis but you knows, white man, de nigger is a far -way back of de white man; his time ain't come yit, leastwise dat's de -way it 'pear to me. De nigger come from Africa and other hot places, so -he takes after de hot country he come from and has a short temper, hard -head, and not 'nough sense to keep him out of trouble when he gits mad -or 'cited. When he come here, de white man made him work, and he didn't -like dat. He is natchally lazy and when he had to work, then he began to -get huffy and to conjure up in he mind hate and other bad things against -de whites. Ever since the first time de nigger found out he had to work, -he has silently despised the white man. If he had lived and done -nothin', then he would be a 'tirely different person to dis very day, I -knows dat. - -"Does I 'member President Lincoln? I sho' does, but not so much, 'cause -I was too young to have much sense. I has heard my mammy and daddy say -he was a good man and wanted everybody to be free, both white and black. -Dere was a heap of poor white folks in slavery time, and some of them -lived mighty hard, worse than the slaves sometimes. You knows blood is -thick and it is gwine to turn to its kind befo' helpin' de others. They -say slavery was wrong but what 'bout hard times? Dat is de worse kind of -slavery, I thinks. All dis hollerin' 'round 'bout freedom they has, -shucks, all dat kind of talk ain't nothin'. When you has work and some -money in your pocket so you can go to de store and buy some meat and -bread, then you has de best freedom there is, don't tell me. - -"President Roosevelt is 'nother good man. He has looked down on de poor -and 'tressed in dis land wid mercy; has give work and food to de poor -people when nobody else would. He sho' has turnt dis country 'round and -tried so hard to make things right wid de people. When he turn dis way -and turn dat way, them men up there where he is, try to stop him from -helpin' us, but de Blessed Master is gwine to hold his hands up. They -ain't gwine to be able to stop him, 'cause he has done so much good in -de world. Dat man is gwine to be 'membered by de people always, but them -dat has fought him and worked against him is sho' gwine to be forgot. -Nobody wants to 'member them for de evil they has done. You knows dat if -you sows evil you is sho' gwine to gather evil in time. They ain't gwine -sow much longer; their harvest time is right out dere in sight, but de -President is gwine to live on wid us. - -"I's gettin' old now, I has to draw on de 'membrance of de past, tottle -'long in de present and stare wid dese old eyes out dere into what is to -come (future). I has rheumatism and high blood pressure, so you see I's -in for a troublesome time from now on to dat last day. I's livin' wid my -niece now, in her own home, dat is some pleasure to me in my old age." - - - - -Jimmie Johnson - - - *Interview with "Uncle" Jimmie Johnson (90)* - *172 E. Park Ave., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -"I was born in Virginia, but Dr. L.C. Kennedy bought me, my mother and -brothers and we moved to Spartanburg. My father stayed in Virginia. Dr. -Kennedy lived near where North Church Street and Kennedy Place now is, -and I lived in a two-room house in his back yard. I was just a baby at -the time. My old masser was as good and kind to me as he could be, so -was my missus. My mother died when I was ten years old, and Missus was -just like a mother to me all the time. When I got old enough I used to -do some things around the yard for Masser and Missus. - -"Masser was an Episcopalian, and I went to Sunday School where the rock -church now stands (Church of the Advent). Miss Mary Legg was my teacher, -and she was a saintly woman. She was a niece of old Masser. Old Missus -used to come to the house where I lived and teach me my alphabet. After -I got older, I used to take care of Masser's horse and buggy for him; -used to hitch-up the horse for him and go with him on his ways to see a -patient. Bless his heart, he let me take my Webster's blue back speller -and my history with me when I would drive with him. I would study those -books and Masser would tell me how to pronounce the hard words. That is -the way I got my education. Masser would tell Missus that Jimmie was a -smart boy, that he had no father nor mother and that they must be good -to him. They sure was. I never wanted for a thing. Sometimes on our -drives Masser would tell me some Latin words, but I never did study -Latin--just English. - -"My masser would say that Jimmie had sense, was a good boy, so Missus -would let me practice on her organ or her piano in the house. I got -pretty good on these, so when I got to be a young man, I taught lessons -on both the reed organ and the melodian, then on the piano. I taught the -rudiments of music and piano for about 25 years. - -"When the Yankee soldiers come to Spartanburg it scared me. They kept -telling me that they were not going to hurt me, but I got a pile of -brick-bats and put them under the house. I told Missus I wasn't going to -let any of the soldiers hurt her. The Yankee soldiers did not bother me. -They came all around our house, but every one of them was quiet and -orderly. They took some of Missus' sugar and hams, but did not kill any -of the chickens. I told them not to take the sugar, but they took it and -the hams anyhow. - -"Missus told me that I was free, but I told her I was going to stay on -where I was and protect her until I died. And when Masser died, I -grieved and grieved about him. I loved him dearly and I know he loved -me. He was good and kind to me always. He never whipped me, not once. I -grieve about my masser to this day. He was a kind gentleman. - -"No, I never married, and I haven't got anybody kin to me now. My -brothers all died and I am the only one left. I adopted four children. I -taught them music and we got on pretty well after Missus died. I stayed -with her until she died. I told Masser I was going to stay with them -even if I was free, and I did. When Masser died, I had no one to love -but Missus. I taught music and gave piano lessons, but I can't do that -now, as I am too old. Lately I tried to cut some wood. I would cut a -lick, then rest; cut a lick, then rest, so I gave it up. - -"Lord bless your soul! I am so glad you told who you are, and you talk -like Masser Dan. You know he and I used to play together as boys. He -would give me anything he had. Honey, come around and see me again. I is -sure glad to see you. What did you say your name was?" Upon being told, -his face would light up with a smile, and he would repeat just what he -had said before. He was then asked when he got to be a poet. "Law' -chile, my old missus told me I was going to be a poet." - -This ninety-year-old ex-slave then sat down at the piano and played for -the writer. - - - - -Mary Johnson - - - *I* - *Interview with Mary Johnson (85)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born seven miles from Newberry, near Jalapa. I was a slave of -John Johnson and his wife, Polly (Dorroh) Johnson. They was good to dere -slaves. My daddy was Daniel and my mudder Elisa Johnson who was slaves -of marster John Johnson. My mudder come from Georgia when she was 14 -years old, bought by Marse Johnson. We lived in a little one-room house -in dere yard. The mistress learned me to card and spin, and to weave -when I was a child. When I was old enough, dey put me in de field to -work, hoe and pick cotton. We got no money for working, but got our -place to live, some victuals and a few clothes to wear. We had no -garden, but helped de mistress in her garden and she give us something -to eat from it. We had homespun dresses; we made not much underclothes, -but sometimes in awful cold weather, we had red flannel underskirts. - -"Nigger boys in slavery when dere work was done in evening, sometime -went hunting and caught rabbits, squirrels or 'possums. - -"We got up at sun-up in mornings and worked 'till sun-down. We had -Saturday afternoon off to do anything we wanted to do. At Christmas -time, we got dat day off, and de master would have a big dinner wid all -kinds good things to eat, spread out in de yard. - -"We never did learn to read and write--had no nigger school and had no -nigger church, but sometimes de white folks would have us go to dere -church and set in back seat or gallery. - -"The white folks had cotton pickings and corn shuckings often and we -helped. Dey had good dinners for them coming to it. De childrens, white -and black played marbles sometimes, and played base. Us slave children -played base and jumped from one base to another before could be caught; -and we sing: 'Can I git to Molly's bright? Three course and ten. Can I -get there by candle-light? yes, if your legs are long and light.' - -"Marse John's youngest son got to be a doctor. He was a good man and -helped us when we was sick. He did not gibe herbs much, but some of de -ole folks used 'life everlasting', now called rabbit tobacco, for cure -of bad colds or pneumonia. Dey boiled it and make a plaster and put it -on sore places of chest. Dey used holly bush or spice bush bark, boiled -to a tea and drunk for sickness. - -"De padderrollers come in dat section, they rode at night and if caught, -a nigger, when he was out of his place, would be took in and told dat he -would get 25 lashes if he was caught again. When de war was over, de -Yankees went through but didn't bother us; but dey stold horses, mules, -cows and supplies. When freedom come, we left the place, 'cause marse -Johnson and some his folks went to Mississippi. We hired out to Kirk -Richards nearby. - -"De Ku Klux was not a bother. Dey jus marched sometimes at night, wid -long white sheets over dem and all over de horses. Dere heads were -covered with small holes for eyes, nose and mouth, and had long white -ears like a horses ears. - -"I think Abe Lincoln was a fine man, and Jeff Davis was good too. Slaver -did good to nigger, made him careful and know how to work." - - *II* - *Interview with Mary Johnson (85)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live in town in a little two-room house wid some of my grandchilluns. -We rent de house. I am too old to work, but do what I can. - -"I was de slave of John Johnson. His wife was Miss Polly. Dey was good -to de slaves, and I had no trouble. My mother was Eliza Johnson and my -pa was Daniel Johnson. Dey was both slaves to Marse John Johnson. My -mother was from Georgia. We always lived in de yard behind de house in a -small one-room cabin, a pretty good place to live, I reckon. - -"We didn't git no money fer our work. We got something to eat, but not -much clothes to wear. We worked hard dem days; got up at sun-up and -worked all day till sun-down or as long as we could see. We didn't git -much time off, 'cept maybe a day at Christmas. - -"No, de white folks didn't learn us to read and write. We had no school -and no church in slavery time, but some of de niggers was made to go to -de white folks' church and sit in de back seat. - -"Yes, de Yankees was bad. Dey burn't everything in deir way, and stole -cattle; but dey didn't come near our place." - - - - -Miemy Johnson - - - *Interview with Miemy Johnson, 82 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Miemy Johnson has no particular place of abode. She is a transient among -her children, kin people, and friends. In whatever home she may be -temporarily an occupant, she does the cooking and family washing. - -"I knowed when dat bunty rooster hopped in de door, flap his wings and -crowed, dis mornin', dat us gonna have company today. I told Sam so -befo' he left here. Him laugh and say: 'Ma, dat bunty rooster is a big -liar sometime. Maybe him just wanna recommend hisself to you and beat de -pig to de slop bucket dat you ain't carried out to de pen yet.' I's sure -glad dat you come, for it'll show Sam dat dat chicken never told a lie. - -"Set down dere and let me fetch you a plate of boil peanuts, which I -just is set off de fire. You lak them? Glad you do, honey. Most white -folks love them dat way, 'stead of parched. How you been? You sure is -growed since de last day I clap my eyes on you. How's I been? Poorly. -I's just a waitin' for de chariot to carry me home! - -"Well, us done cut down de underbrush, now let us git into de new -ground. You just wanna talk 'bout me and what happen to me all 'long de -last eighty years? Dat's some big field to go over. - -"My pappy was name Henry. My mammy name Ceily. They both b'long to old -Marse Johnnie Mobley, but my pappy's pappy b'long to de Johnson's; -they's big white folks on de Catawba River side of de county. They sold -deir plantation and some of de slaves, to old marster and his daughter, -Miss Nancy. She was de widow Thompson befo' her marry dat Kentucky hoss -drover, Marse Jim Jones. - -"Freedom come. My pappy 'membered de Johnson's and took dat for his -name. I never been able to git 'way from dat name. I marry little Phil -Johnson. My brudder was Adam Johnson and my sister was Easter. Her marry -Allan Foster. - -"My husband and me live in de old Mobley quarter, three miles southwest -of Woodward and just 'bout a quarter of a mile from where you settin' -dere a writin' right now. Long as him live, him was de carriage driver -for de Mobleys. He 'tend Fellowship Church. All de Mobleys done dead or -moved 'way. Dere is nothin' left to tell de tale but dat cemetery you -passed, comin' 'long down here and de ghosts dat shiver 'round dere in -de nighttime. Whenever it snow, them ghosts have been seen travelin' -down de road and up de avenue to Cedar Shades. You know dat's 'bout a -quarter of a mile farther down de road from where Marse Johnnie's -brudder, James Mobley, lived. Fine old house dere yet, but just colored -folks live in it. - -"Our chillun was Roxanna, Malinda, Ben, Mary, Waddell, Queen Elizabeth, -Russell, Pearly, Thomasine, Helen, Alberta, Maggie, Mary Jane, Willie, -Sam and Roy. Had de easiest birth pains when, to my big surprise, de -twins, Sam and Roy come. Dat been forty years ago last July. I 'members -well, dat de twins was born on a Wednesday and I walk to Red Hill Church -de very nex' Sunday. Rev. Richard Cook was de preacher. Him didn't see -me a settin' in de church and he pray for me by name, as bein' in de -perils of childbirth. And bless God, me right dere in dat church a goin' -'long wid de rest of them a singin': 'Amazin' Grace How Sweet De Sound -Dat Saved A Wretch Lak Me'. I was a proud wretch dat day as sure's you -born! - -"Does I 'member anything 'bout de earthquake? Jesus my Lord, yes! Us was -holdin' a revival meetin' in Red Hill dat night! It was a moonlight -Tuesday night. Brother Stevenson and Brother Moore was a helpin' Brother -Richard Cook carry on de meetin'. It was de last day of August, in '86. -Brother Moore had preached, de choir had sung a hymn, and Brother -Stevenson was in de middle of a prayer. Him said sumpin' 'bout de devil -goin' 'round lak a roarin' lion a seekin' folks for to devour. Then de -roarin' was heard. De church commence to crack and shake and rock. Then -all de folks holler: 'Oh Lordy.' They run out dat church and some took -up de big road to de depot at Woodward. Some fell down in de moonlight -and cry and pray. Brother Cook say de Bible says: 'Bow down, or kneel or -fall on your face befo' de Lord'. Then he say: 'Let us all fall on our -faces dis time.' Us did and each one of them preachers pray. 'Bout time -they git through, us see a rider on a milk white hoss a gallopin' up to -de church wid de white mane and tail of dat hoss a wavin' and shinin' in -de moonlight. De people went wild wid fear and scream at de top of deir -voices; 'It's de white hoss wid his rider of de book of Revelations -goin' forth, conquerin' and to conquer.' They bust forth in dat mighty -spiritual 'Oh Run Here, Believer, Run Here, Oh Sinner Your House On -Fire! Oh Sinner Your House On Fire!' They run and surround de white hoss -and his rider and what you reckon? Us find out it was just Marse Ed -Woodward on his white hoss, John, comin' back from courtin' my young -mistress, Tillie Mobley, dat him marry de nex' Christmas. - -"Marse Ed got down off dat hoss when us beg him to stay wid us. It's a -pow'ful comfort to have a brave white man 'round at sich a time 'mongst -a passle of terrified niggers, I tells you! And to think Marse Ed done -dead. - -"You goin' now? You ain't eat all your peanuts. Put them in your pocket -and eat them on de way to de Boro. Goodbye--I 'spect I'll git to glory -befo' you does. If I does, I'll be dere a waitin' wid a glad hand and a -glad voice to welcome you to de everlastin' home." - - - - -Tom Johnson - - - *Interview with Tom Johnson (83)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G. Leland Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born on the Gilliam place, I reckon about 1854. My father died -when I was little; I don't remember him. My mother was Lucy Gilliam who -belonged to Reuben Gilliam. Reuben Gilliam was a big farmer and -slave-owner. He was good to de nigger chaps but whipped de big ones -every day or two. I was too little to learn to read and write, but dey -never learned any slaved to do dat. Dey never paid us any money wages, -just give us eats and a place to sleep, and a little clothes. I worked -in de field when I got bigger. Never had school in de place, and never -had a church, either. - -"Us children played lots of games, like rolly-hole. There are two holes -and you try to roll a ball in one hole. The white folks had -corn-shuckings, lots of them, as they raised lots of corn on de farms. -Dey had cotton pickings, too, and carding and spinning bees, quilting -bees. I used to feed de shippers when women folks spin de yarn, when I -was a small boy. We raised plenty corn, cotton, and other things. We had -a big garden, too. - -"When freedom come all of us left and went off. I went back to get -something to eat. I married Mattie Kinard who belonged to old Maj. John -Kinard. We had nine children. - -"I 'member de red shirts when dey come through our place. I like it -better now dan in slavery times." - - - - -Richard (Look-up) Jones - - - *Interview with Richard Jones (Dick Look-up), age 93 [HW: 125?]* - *County Home, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -Dick has an upward stare all the time, and holds his head as if he were -always looking up into the sky, consequently he has won the sobriquet, -'Look-Up'. - -"Everybody dat knows me knows dat I was born on de Jim Gist plantation, -and it used to jine Mr. Winsmith's and de Glenn Peak plantations. Mr. -Winsmith was a doctor. Marse Jim sho was a good man to his darkies. - -"My father was named Ned Jones and he belonged to Marse Berry Jones. His -plantation was across de forest, next to West Springs. Mother was Lucy -Gist, belonging to Marse Jim. My parents had de following chilluns: -Esther, Bella, Ephriam, Griggs, John, Penfield, me and Richard. Dey -married and so we was all Jones. - -"De slaves in de Gist Quarter lived well. All nigger chilluns in dat -quarter had very small tasks until dey was seventeen or eighteen years -old. De quarter had nine houses. Dere was seventeen hundred acres in our -plantation; or dat is, de part where we lived and worked. We lived in -one-room log cabins dat had to be well kept all of de time. - -"All de chilluns in de Quarter was well fed, clothed, housed and -doctored until dey was strong and well developed younguns. Den dey was -give tasks and learnt to do what de master and de mistress thought dey -would do well at. - -"In de houses we had comfortable home-made beds and chairs. We had nice -tables and plenty to eat. Our clothes was kept mended by a seamstress, -and dese things was looked after by one of de mammies on de plantation -dat was too old to work. - -"Ah yes, well does I 'member my Granny from Africa, and straight from -dere, too; Judith Gist, dey named her. Dat ole lady could not work when -she died, fer she was a hundred and ten years old. Dey had in de paper -dat I was 125 [HW: 93?]. It gives me notice to say dat I is de oldest -man in Union County. Can't 'member any of my grandfathers. Millie Gist -was my mother, and aunt Judith was her mother. - -"Granny Judith said dat in Africa dey had very few pretty things, and -dat dey had no red colors in cloth, in fact, dey had no cloth at all. -Some strangers wid pale faces come one day and drapped a small piece of -red flannel down on de ground. All de black folks grabbed fer it. Den a -larger piece was drapped a little further on, and on until de river was -reached. Den a large piece was drapped in de river and on de other side. -Dey was led on, each one trying to git a piece as it was drapped. -Finally, when de ship was reached, dey drapped large pieces on de plank -and up into de ship 'till dey got as many blacks on board as dey wanted. -Den de gate was chained up and dey could not get back. Dat is de way -Granny Judith say dey got her to America. Of course she did not even -know dat de pieces was red flannel, or dat she was being enticed away. -Dey just drapped red flannel to dem like us draps corn to chickens to -git dem on de roost at night. - -"When dey got on board de ship dey were tied until de ship got to sea; -den dey was let loose to walk about 'cause dey couldn't jump overboard. -On de ship dey had many strange things to eat, and dey liked dat. Dey -was give enough red flannel to wrap around demselves. She liked it on de -boat. Granny Judith born Millie, and Millie born me. No, I ain't never -had no desire to go to Africa, kaise I gwine to stay whar I is. - -"Uncle Tom come 'long wid Granny Judith. Two womenfolks come wid dem, -aunt Chany and Daphne. Aunt Chany and aunt Daphne was bought by de Frees -dat had a plantation near Jonesville. Uncle Tom and 'Granny' was bought -by Marse Jim Gist, but dere marsters allus 'lowed dem to visit on July -4th and Christmas. When dey talk, nobody didn't know what dey was -talking about. My granny never could speak good like I can. She talk -half African, and all African when she git bothered. No, I can't talk no -African. - -"After I was seventeen I did all kinds of hoeing and plowing and other -farm work fer my marster. He said dat by dis time, his little niggers' -bones had done got hard enough fer dem to work. We had a 'driver', a -older person, dat showed us how to do everything right. Marse never let -him over-work or hurry us. We liked him--'Uncle July Gist', we called -him and dat was his real name, too. His wife, Aunty Sara, was good to -us; dey both buried at Woodson's Chapel Baptist Church. - -"Fer my first task I had 1/4 of an acre in taters, 'bacca and -watermelons de first year. Some of de boys had 'pinders, cantloupes and -matises (tomatoes) in dere task of a 1/4 acre. - -"De next year, we made corn and sold it to our master fer whatever he -give us fer it. All de use we had fer money was to buy fish hooks, -barlows, juice harps and marbles. Boys did not use 'bacca den until dey -got twenty-one or over. Marse allus carried a roll of money as big as my -arm. He would come to de quarter on Christmas, July 4th and -Thanksgiving, and get up on a stump and call all the chilluns out. Den -he would throw money to 'em. De chilluns git dimes, nickles, quarters, -half-dollars and dollars. At Christmas he would throw ten dollar bills. -De parents would take de five and ten dollar bills in charge, but Marse -made de let de chilluns keep de small change. I tell you, I ain't never -seed so much money since my marster been gone. He buried at Fairforest -Presbyterian Cemetery as white folks calls it, but we calls it Cedar -Grove. - -"When he died, he had sixteen plantations, you can see dat at de -courthouse in Union. All his darkies went in a drove of wagons to his -burying. He was killed by dem Yankees in Virginny. Uncle Wylie Smith, -his bodyguard, come back wid his body and told us dat Marse was kilt by -a Yankee. Marse Jim was a sentinel, and dat Yankee shot him in his nose, -but strange to say, it never tore his face up none. Miss Sara buried him -in his uniform and she wrapped a Confederate flag over de top of de -coffin. Uncle Wylie put Master's watch around Miss Sara's neck like he -had done told him to do when he got home. Miss Sara cried and us cried, -too. Jim never married and dat's why Miss Sara to do everything, kaise -she was his sister what lived wid him. - -"Mr., I run on Broad River fer over 24 years as boatman, carrying Marse -Jim's cotton to Columbia fer him. Us had de excitement on dem trips. -Lots times water was deeper dan a tree is high. Sometimes I was throwed -and fell in de water. I rise up every time, though, and float and swim -back to de boat and git on again. If de weather be hot, I never think of -changing no clothes, but just keep on what I got wet. Five niggers allus -went on Marse's boat. One man steer de boat and of course he was de -steerman, and dat what he went by. I recollects two steermans, Bradley -Kennedy and Andy McCluny. Charlie Gilliam was de second steerman, by dat -I means dat he de young nigger dat Bradley and Andy had to break in. - -"Sometimes Marster have three flat boats a-gwine down at one time, and I -has recollections of as many as five a-gwine from our plantation; dat -was not so often, though. Us had long poles to steer de boats wid; den -dere was some paddles, and some of de niggers was called privates dat -handled de cotton and used de paddles when dey had to be used. You knows -dat batteaus was what dey always used de paddles wid. Privates did de -shoving and other heavy work. De seconds and de privates allus shoved -wid de poles when de water was rough, and de steerman give orders. I was -allus a boatman. - -"Charlie Gilliam acted as boatman, some; and den de other boatmen was: -Bill Hughes, Warren Worthy, Green Stokes and John Glenn. Dey made de -poles to suit de job. Some of de poles was longer dan others was. Some -of dem was broad and flat at de end; others was blunt and others was -made sharp. When de Broad River rose, sometimes de waves got higher dan -my house dar. Den it was a real job to handle one of Marse's boats. Fact -is, it was five men's jobs. Wid water a-roaring and a-foaming and -a-gwine round you like a mad tiger a-blowing his breath, so dat you was -feer'd (scared) dat all your marster's cotton gwine to be spilt, you had -to be up and a-doing something real fast. Sometimes dat river take your -boat round and round like a merry-go-round, 'til you git so -swimmy-headed dat you have to puke up all de victuals dat you done eat. -Den it swing from dat whirl into a swift stream dat take you a mile a -minute, yes sir, a mile a minute fer I don't know how fer. - -"Den you see a tree a-coming right straight to you. If de boat hit dat -tree, you knowed dat you be busted into a million pieces. You had to git -your poles and somebody had to let a pole hit dat tree ahead of de boat. -Of course dat change de boat's course from de tree and you went sailing -on by. Once in a freshet us raced twenty-five miles in twenty-five -minutes. Marse Jim was wid us dat time, and he tole us so by his watch. -De water a-jumping real high and dat boat a-jumping still wusser made me -so skeer't dat I just shake in my knees and all de way up and down my -legs. - -"On dis trip we had went plumb up in North Carolina. Us never had been -dat fer up befo'. I ain't never seed North carolina befo'; neither is I -seed it since. Broad River was real narrow when we went up and she look -like a lamb; but when we come down it had done and tuck and rained and -dem banks was vanished ... but dat water sho did rare up dar to git back -in its regular channel. De rocks up dar was mo' scary looking dat dey is -whar it run through Union to Columbia. Dat night we run into a nine-mile -shoal. Couldn't none de niggers keep dat boat off'n dat shoal it was so -powerful ... dat is, de water just tuck dat boat plumb smack out'n our -hands. But it throwed our boat in shallow water and of course dat made -it drag. Good dat it never drug over no sharp rocks--and dey was setting -all around us--but it happened dat it hit sand. We camped dar fer de -night. By morning we had done go a quarter mile from de channel. - -"When we et (ate), we worked de boat out into de main channel again. Den -we staked her to a tree and tuck a look around befo' we started down -stream fer Union; dat seemed fer off right den. Finally de master -boatman give de order, 'Shove off, boys!' We shoved and we fell into a -clear open channel and our boat went a-skeeting down stream. We never -had to hit a lick, but she went so fast dat we was all skeer'd to take a -long breath. Finally Marster said, 'Boys, see dem willow trees down -yonder; well, steer her to run over dem so dat she will slack her -speed.' Us did, but it never deadened our speed a mite, dat us could -see. Marster shake his head and 'low, 'Bound fer hell, maybe, boys'. - -"Got to Cherokee Falls, wid water so high couldn't tell no falls dar. -Marster say, 'Lay her to de right, we can't wreck dis boat widout -putting up a honest man's fight.' Den he say, 'If us does, us'll sho go -to hell.' We tried to swing her by grabbing to a big willow, and we -broke a lot of limbs in trying, but we did swing her and she run a 100 -yards widout steering, and de boat landed on a little mountain of land. -Marse 'low, 'Ain't never seed sech a ocean of water since I was eighteen -years old, damn if I have.' He look at me and say, 'Don't know whether -Dick scared or not, but he sho is a brave man.' I was a-setting my feets -on land den, and I look at him and 'low, 'No sir, I ain't skeer't, why I -could come over dat little place in my bateau.' Truth is, dat I was so -skeer't dat I wasn't skeert. We lay over a day and a half. De water had -done receded back some, and we come 27 miles down to Lockhart Shoals in -dat one day. De water was still so high dat we run over de shoals widout -a tremor. Come sailing on down to Fish Dam and went over de Fish Dam and -never knowed dat it was dar. Den we landed at de road wid everybody safe -but still scar't. - -"Dar was two Charlie Gilmores ... one was kil't right below Fish Dam. He -was hit in de head by a private. When de private was cutting de boat, -Charlie got in de way of de pole and it hit him in one of his temples -and he fell over in de water dead. When dey got him, wasn't narry drap -of water in his lungs, dat's how-come us knowed dat he was kil't -straight out. Some says dat he was hit in de y'er (ear), but anyway it -was on a tender spot and de lick sho done him up. Nothing wasn't done to -de private, kaise it was all accidental and Marse and everybody felt -sorry fer him. - -"On river trips, we took rations sech as meat, bread and cabbage, and us -cotch all de fish dat we wanted and had coffee. We each took day in and -day out to cook, dat is, all dem dat could half-way cook did dat." - - - - -Wesley Jones - - - *Interview with Wesley Jones* - *Rt. 2, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Yes sir, I drinks jes' a leetle likker, and I drinks it--I don't let it -drink me. One call fer another. Dar it goes 'till you be's drunk. I is -97 years old and I ain't never been drunk in my life. No sir-ee, nobody -ain't never saw me drunk. It sho drink some of 'em though. - -"Heep o' stars fell when I was young. Dey fell regular fer a minute er -so. I laid down fer a nap and de niggers woke me up a hollering. Ev'y -darky was scared, but it sho was a pretty sight. - -"I 'members de earthquake, too. De earth shake and tremble so hard dat -some loose bricks fell out my chimney and de pitcher fell off de -winder-sill down on de flo'. I was 'bout 50 years old den, if I 'members -correct. Dat come 'long in 1886. - -"I also 'members Gen. Wade Hampton, when I was a building up de -breastworks to keep de Yankees from shooting us. Dem was scary times, -but de Ku Klux days was scary times de most. - -"My young marster, Dr. Johnny Hill, used to have me drive him to -Padgett's Creek Church. Sometime us go to de Quaker church, den agin, us -go to church over in Goshen Hill. - -"'Bout fus' thing my white folks had me a-doing, was gwine fer de papers -up to de sto' at Sardis. I would git a lot o' letters, fer in dem days, -de white folks rit letters to one another mo' dan dey does now. I guess -dese days de mos' writing dat is done is business writing. At de Sardis -sto' dey used to give big barbecues. Dem days barbecues was de mos' -source of amusement fer ev'ybody, all de white folks and de darkies de -whole day long. All de fiddlers from ev'ywhars come to Sardis and fiddle -fer de dances at de barbecues. Dey had a platform built not fer from de -barbecue table to dance on. Any darky dat could cut de buck and de -pigeon wing was called up to de platform to perform fer ev'ybody. - -"Night befo' dem barbecues, I used to stay up all night a-cooking and -basting de meats wid barbecue sass (sauce). It made of vinegar, black -and red pepper, salt, butter, a little sage, coriander, basil, onion, -and garlic. Some folks drop a little sugar in it. On a long pronged -stick I wraps a soft rag or cotton fer a swab, and all de night long I -swabs dat meat 'till it drip into de fire. Dem drippings change de smoke -into seasoned fumes dat smoke de meat. We turn de meat over and swab it -dat way all night long 'till it ooze seasoning and bake all through. - -"Lawyer McKissick and Lawyer A.W. Thompson come out and make speeches at -dem barbecues. Both was young men den. Dey dead now, I living. I is 97 -and still gwine good. Dey looked at my 'karpets' (pit stakes). On dem I -had whole goats, whole hogs, sheep and de side of a cow. Dem lawyers -liked to watch me 'nint' dat meat. Dey 'lowed I had a turn fer ninting -it (annointing it)." - - - - -Sallie Layton Keenan - - - *Interview with Sallie Layton Keenan, 80 yrs. old* - *20 Calhoun St., Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -'Aunt' Sallie (80 yrs. old) and 'Uncle' Robert live with their grandson. -A daughter lives nearby. They like to tell of the days when they were -children: - -"Land o' de libbin, my maw, she wuz one o' de Hughes and Giles niggers. -She used to lob to set down by de fire an' tell us younguns 'bout de -times what de had down dar on de big ribber (Broad River). Our -plantation, she used to say, wuz de one what de white folks called Mt. -Drury. But when maw wuz rael young, jus big enough to wait on de fine -white ladies, she wuz put on de 'block', you nos what dat wuz, and sold -to Marse 'Matt' Wallace. Marse Matt took it into his haed dat he wuz a -gwine to a place what dey calls Arkansas. His white folks, specially his -wife's, dem wuz de Mengs, dey riz up an put forth mighty powferul -objections. Fer a long time he wuz jus onsettled in he mind 'bout zactly -what he really wuz a gwine to do. - -"Peers to me like my maw 'lowed dat he sorter kept his intentions secret -when he had rightly make up he mind 'bout de whole business. In dem -days, dere wo'nt no trains like dare is now. Everbody had to ride in -waggons, and de white ladies, dey allus rid in fine carriages. De -chilluns, dey rid wid de wimmen folks. Our Marster, he rid high steppin' -horse, cept on de Sabbath, when he rid wid de missus to meetin' house -out on de creek. (Brown's Creek). - -"Anyhow, one cold mornin' not long fore Christmas and jus atter -Thanksgivin' us sot out fore day, or dat is, my maw and pa did, kaise I -wuz not born till we got to Mississippi River. Dar wuz fo' in de white -folks carriage--I is heered Maw tell it a thousand times, over and -over--In de carriage dar wuz Missus; and de fo' chilluns, Jeanette, -Clough, Winter and Ida. Marse Matt, he rid de horse right by de side o' -de carriage. Paw--de call him 'Obie', he driv a waggin wid all de little -nigger chaps in it dat wuz too little to walk. De big nigger boys and -gals dat wuz strong, dey walked. De roads wuz jus narrow little trails -wide enough fer de carriage and de waggin to git through de lims o' de -trees. Dey would hit you in de face iffin you didn't duck 'em, so maw -allus 'lowed. Dey had pack mules dat fetched along de supplies, fer dey -had to spen' de night in de thick woods what nebber had been cut. All -kinds er varmints used to git atter dem and maw 'lowed dat dey wuz -scared when dey sot camp, and she used to tremble mo' den she slep. When -she did sleep, she 'lowed dat she drempt de awful varmints wuz a gittin' -atter her. De missus, she wuz scared at night too. Marse Matt, he 'lowed -he warn't one bit scared, but maw sat dat Missus say he jump powerful in -he sleep sometimes. - -"Marse Matt had done sot a task of so many miles fer dem to travel from -sun-up to sundown, but maw 'lowed dat dey nebber did hardly git dat fer. -De pack mules would git short winded, and sometime de carriage horses, -dey would git lame; or one o' de waggin wheels would take and break; or -it wuz allus some bad luck er follerin atter dem. Den Marse Matt, he -'lowed dat he didn't believe in no travelin' signs, and 'cause o' dat, -maw 'lowed dat dey had de worsest kind o' luck. Dat is de reason dat de -train did not git no further than 'Promoter' County, Miss. (Mr. Wallace -really went to Como, Desoto County, Miss., verified by Mrs. J. Clough -Wallace). It took dem fo' weeks to reach 'Promotor'. Dar dey set up de -new home. Maw 'lowed dat dey wuz called tender feeted poineers by dem -what had got dar ahead of dem. Peers like maw 'lowed dat dey stayed dar -five year. Anyway de fus year, a lot o' de niggers tuck all manner o' -ailiments and dey died. De Missus, she kept full o' cold in dat log -house. Dey had a fine house here, you nos de house what Miss Roberta -Wallace libs in, well, dat wuz de one, cepin it wuz not as fine as Miss -Roberta got it now. Anyway, maw and paw, dey didn't like it no better -dan missus, cepin dey wuz skeered to speak dere minds. Finally, de -Marster, he tuck down sick, and in spite o' all dat Missus do fer him, -maw 'lowed he kept a growin' worser and worser till he tuck and died one -bad night. Missus, 'Dandy' de Marster allus called her, had got so broke -down wid worry and sorrow, dat she wuz nigh to death's door, herself, -when de Marster died, maw said. Fer dat reason, dey kept it from her fer -two weeks. Dey thought dat she wuz gwine to have de pneumonia, like him, -but she started to gittin' well fore she tuck de pneumonia. Maw said dat -dey used all o' de ole nigger remedies on de Missus dat dey knowed and -fer dat reason dey brung her through. Maw is told me dem remedies but I -is so ole now, dat I jus remembers dem. If Bob wuz at hisself he could -give you some. You come by here some day when de moon is right and den -Bob'll be in his right mind to tell you some o' dem. - -"De Missus, she come back powerful slow, and it wuz mi' nigh -Thanksgiving when she got strong. It wuz so cold dat she used to 'low -how she wish fer her paws big warm fire, and de Carolina sunshine. So -one bad morning, she took and got a letter from her paw in Union. He -axed her to fetch us all back here to Union. It had done tuck de letter -over three weeks to git to her. Long fore de Marster had died he had gib -up hope er gwine to Arkansas. When dat letter rive, maw 'lowed dat de -Missus she tuck and started to cryin'. All dat day she cry and read it -over an over. De very next morning she called up all us, I wuz born den, -and maw 'lowed dat I wuz a carrin' a sugar tit in my mouf and dat I had -de cooter bones round my neck. Course I disremembers all cept dat what I -is been told over and over. When maw and paw went out dar, dey had one -little chile. He wuz six years ole when dey got back here. One had done -tuck and died fore dey lef here. Den me and my sister, we wuz born in -Miss. - -"Dat wuz one glad day fer us, kaise Missus 'lowed dat she wuz a gwine -back to her paw in Union. All de niggers, dey started to dancing and a -hollerin' like dey wuz wile. Maw 'lowed dat some folks dat libbed three -miles away tuck and come to see us. Some o' dem called us slackers, er -sometin' kaise we wuz a leavin'; but others, maw 'lowed, dat dey wished -dey could go as fer as Georgia wid us. But I is nebber liked Georgia -myself. Missus gib de orders fer us to begin packin' and maw said dat de -way dem niggers worked wuz a dyin' sin. De Missus, she sell her mules -and other stock, kaise we wuz a gwine to ride all de way back on de -railroad train. It had jus broke through to Miss. Some o' de ole niggers -'lowed dat dey wuz feered to ride on dem things, bein' as dey wuz drawed -by fire. Dey thought de debbil, he wuz a workin' in de inside of dem. -Maw 'lowed dat if de Missus wuz not feered she would not be. De Missus -was feered 'bout dem dat wuz not gwine to ride on de train, but when she -'lowed dat dey could jus stay in Miss. Maw said dat dey nebber did hear -no mo''bout dem bein' feered o' de train. - -"Maw and paw allus tole me 'bout de things what I did on de train. I wuz -so young dat I jus remembers anything about dat. She 'lowed dat she tuck -de cooter bones from my neck fore we started to de train. Maw 'lowed dat -when de train come up, dey wuz so scairt dat we did not want to git on -till she did. All de niggers wuz looked up to when dey got back here, -maw 'lowed, kaise no niggers in Union had ebber rid on de train ceptin -dem dat had rid fer as Alston, and dey wuz so few dat you could count -dem on your hand. - -"Missus 'Dandy' come right back to her paw's house. He wuz Mr. Clough -Meng. Missus Dandy's little boy, Clough, wuz big enough to go to school -when dey got back. It wuz Christmas when dey got to 'Promotor' County, -and it wuz Christmas when us rive back. - -"When my paw, 'Obie', wuz a courtin, a nigger put a spell on him kaise -he was a wantin' my maw too. De nigger got a conjure bag and drapped it -in de spring what my paw drunk water from. He wuz laid up on a bed o' -rheumatiz fer six weeks. Dey all knowed dat he wuz conjured. He could -not even set up when his victuals wuz fetched to him. So his brother -knowed who had put de spell on him. He tuck and went to another old -conjure man and axed him to take dat spell off'n paw. De conjure man -'lowed to paw's brother dat a grapevine growed over de spring, and fer -him to go dar and cut a piece of it six feet long and fetch it to his -house at night. When he tuck it to de conjure man's house, de conjure -man, he took de vine in a dark place and done somethin to it--de Lawd -knows what. Den he tole my paw's brother to take it home and give it to -paw. De man what put de spell on paw, I mean de nigger what had it done, -he come often and set down by paw and ax him what was ailen him. Our -conjure man, he tole paw dat de nex time de man come an' set down by his -bed, fer him to raise up on his lef elbow and rech down by his bed and -take dat piece o' grapevine and hit de nigger over de head and face. Den -atter he had done dat, our conjure man 'lowed dat paw could den rise up -from his bed o' rheumatiz. - -"It wont long before de nigger come to visit my paw. My paw, he axed him -real nice like to have a seat. His maw had done put a chair by de bed, -so dat he would set down wid his face toward paw. Atter he and paw got -to talkin, paw reched down an' axed him to have a look at de grapevine -dat he was gwine to smoke fer his ailment. Dat nigger, he 'lowed to my -paw dat it wuz not a goin to do his rheumatiz no good. Jus as he 'lowed -dat, paw, he riz up on his lef shoulder and elbow and wid his right han' -he let loose and come down over dat nigger's face and forehead wid dat -grapevine. Dat nigger, he jump up and run out o' dat house a hollerin' -kaise he knowed dat paw and done got de spell offin him. My paw got up -de next day and dey 'lows dat he nebber did have no mo' rheumatiz." - - - - -Ella Kelly - - - *Interview with Ella Kelly, 81 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"Yas sir, I was born a slave of Mr. Tom Rabb, they call him black Tom -Rabb, 'cause dere was two other Tom Rabbs. Marster Tom's hair was jet -black and even when he shave, whisker roots so black face 'pear black. -Yas sir, I come to birth on his place two or three miles from Monticello -in de country, so I did. They say de year was de year President Buchanan -was president, though I dunno nuttin' 'bout dat. - -"My pappy name Henry Woodward, and b'long to old preacher Beelie -Woodward's son, John. But all dis was just what I heard them say 'bout -it. My mammy name Ella. She was de cook. I too little to work in slavery -time, just hang 'round kitchen wid mammy, tote water and pick up chips, -is all de work I done I 'members. - -"Money? Help me Jesus, No. How could I ever see it? In de kitchen I see -none, and how I see money any where else, your honor? Nigger never had -none! I ain't got any money now, long time since I see any money. - -"What did us eat? Dat's somethin' I knows 'bout. My mammy de cook for de -white folks, wasn't I right dere at her apron strings all de time? Eat -what de white folks eat, all de time, sho' I did! Too little to 'member -much what slavery was like; can't tell nothin' 'bout clothes, never had -no shoes. Us went to church some Sundays. Funny, them dat had not been -good or done somethin' bad was kept at home by de white overseer, and -some of them played wid de white chillun. Sorry I can't answer every -question. - -"One story I 'member 'bout is de pa'tridges and de Savior. My pappy -allowed de reason pa'tridges couldn't fly over trees was: One day de -Savior was a-riding long on a colt to de Mount of Olive Trees, and de -drove flewed up, make sich a fuss they scared de colt and he run away -wid him. De marster put a cuss on de pa'tridges for dat, and ever since, -they can't fly over tree tops. You reckon dat so boss? They say they -never does fly over trees! - -"I had a good marster and mistress. When de slaves git sick, they 'tend -to them same as one of their own chillun. Doctor come quick. They set up -and fan you and keep de flies off. They wouldn't let de slaves do dis, -'cause certain times you got to take medicine 'cordin' to doctors -orders, and a slave might make a mistake. Oh, they was 'ticular 'bout -sickness. They has a hard time wid some nigger chillun and dat cast' oil -bottle, I tell you! - -"One of my young marsters was name Charlie. After freedom he marry one -of Colonel Province's daughters and me and my mammy moved and lived wid -them a while. Then I got married to Wates Kelly, and went to live and -work for a white man 'bove White Oak. His name was Long John Cameron, de -best white man to work for, but when Sat'day come and all de hands paid -off, he git dat red hoss and turn and gallop to Winnsboro and bring back -a passel of low down white trash wid him to de disturbment of all de -good colored person on de place. - -"Yas sir, Klu Klux was a terror to certain colored persons. I 'members -they come dressed up in white and false faces, passed on to de -Richardson place and whipped somebody one night. - -"My husban' been dead twelve years. I's got thirteen chillun and Minnie -is de onliest one livin' wid me in dis house. Her name Minnie Martin. -Got whole lot of gran' chillun; they cover de earth from Charlotte to -Jacksonville, and from Frisco to Harlem, New York; but never see them, -just three, Franklin, Masie and Marie Martin. - -"I heard 'bout Lincoln and Booker T. Washington. De President now in de -White House, Mr. Roosevelt, have done more good for de nigger in four -years than all de other presidents since Lincoln, done in fifty years. -You say its been seventy-two years? Well, than all de rest in -seventy-two years. Don't you know dat is so? Yas sir, dats de gospel -truth. - -"I's a member of de Baptist Church. Been buried wid my Lord in baptism -and hope for a resurrection wid him in Beulah Land. - -"Yes, de overseer was de poor buckra, he was what you calls dis poor -white trash. You know boss, dese days dere is three kind of people. -Lowest down is a layer of white folks, then in de middle is a layer of -colored folks and on top is de cream, a layer of good white folks. -'Spect it'll be dat way 'till Jedgement day. - -"I got one boy name Ben Tillman, livin' in dis town. White folks calls -him Blossom, but he don't bloom 'round here wid any money, though he is -on de relief roll by sayin' he got a poor old mammy nigh a hundred years -old and he have to keep her up. 'Spect when I gits my old age pension my -chillun will pay me some little 'tention, thank God. Don't you know they -will, sure they will." - - - - -Martha Kelly - - - *Interview with Martha Kelly (age between 70 and 75)* - *Marion, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"All I can tell you, I come here de second year of freedom. Cose I had a -lot of trouble en I can' hardly imagine how long it be dat I de age I -is. My mother, she know my age good, but she been dead for de years come -en gone from here. Ain' much I can remember to tell you 'cause I was -small den. No, my mammy didn' tell we chillun nothin. Didn' have no time -to tell we chillun nothin. She had to go out en work in de field in de -day en she would be tired when night come. - -"My mammy white people was name Charlie Law en his family en dey lived -in Britton's Neck till dey come up here to Marion. We lived in a rice -country down in dat place call Britton's Neck. Ain' you hear talk of it? -My mammy en her chillun stayed right dere on old man Law's place till -long time after dey tell dem dey was free to leave dere. Stayed to de -nigger quarter in my mammy house 'cause we was learn to be field -hands.--Harold, I told you hold off me 'cause I don' feel like you layin -on me dis mornin.--(Harold--small grandson). Didn' know 'bout nothin -much to eat in dat day en time, but bread en meat en rice en all such as -dat. Oh, de peoples in dat country made plenty rice. Dey would plant it -on dis here black lookin dirt en when dey would see dat it was right -ripe, dey would cut it en thrash it out. Den dey would have one of dem -pestle en mortar to beat it wid. My blessed, child, dat been turn out de -nicest kind of rice. No, mam, don' see no such rice dese days dat been -eat like dat rice eat. - -"I recollects I used to be right much of a hand to pull fodder en pick -cotton en all such like dat 'cause all my work was in de field mostly -till I got to de place dat I couldn' work no longer. You see, when I was -married, I moved out dere on Dr. Miles' place over next Pee Dee en 'bout -all my days was spent in de country. Lived out dere on Dr. Miles' place -till I come here to town to live 'bout seven or eight years ago. You is -hear talk of Dr. Miles, ain' you? I used to do what you might say a -right good size washin, but I ain' able to get 'bout to do nothin dese -days much. Just washes out a piece or two like a apron every now en den. - -"Some of de peoples used to sing dere, but I wouldn' never bear much -along dat line. Didn' have no voice much to sing. Is you got dis one? - - Lord, I wonder, - Lord, I wonder, - Lord, I wonder, - - (Repeat 3 Times) - - When de lighthouse - Gwine shine on me. - -"Dat all dere be to dat one. I don' know whe' if I could remember dat -other one or no. Seem like it go somethin like dis: - - Oh, didn' it rain? - It rain 40 days, - En it rain 40 nights, - It ain' never stop a droppin yet, - En I heard de angel in de mornin sing, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - But down by de graveyard, - Me en my Lord gwine stand en talk. - Up on de mountain fire en smoke, - I wouldn' be so busy 'bout de fire en smoke. - I heard de angel in de mornin sing, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - Oh, didn' it rain? - It rain 40 days, - En it rain 40 nights, - Widout still a droppin yet, - I heard de voice of de angel in de mornin sing, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - Oh, didn' it rain? - Down by de graveyard, - Me en my Lord gwine stand en talk. - Chillun, my good Lord, - I heard de voice of de moanin angel, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - Oh, didn' it rain? - It rain 40 days, - En it rain 40 nights, - Widout still a droppin yet, - En I heard de voice of de angel in de mornin, - Oh, didn' it rain? - -"Well, dere ain' been so much dat I remember dat happen when I come -along but what been happen in a way dis day en time. Cose dere been a -difference 'cause de people ain' used to live fast like dey do dese -days. Dere been de shake dat come here in '86 dat I ain' never see de -like since en ain' want to see nothin like dat no more neither. I -remember it come here on a night en when I get in bed dat night, I ain' -been expectin nothin had been de matter. Den dere somethin been rouse me -up en all de dishes was a rattlin'. When I get up en go out in de yard, -de house en all de elements was a rockin'. Yes, mam, I was scared. Didn' -know what was de matter. Thought it was de Jedgment comin when I wake up -en hear all de people round 'bout dere screamin en a hollerin, Jedgment! -Oh, Jedgment! Say dem what ain' right better get right. I tell de people -dat dere won' no need to run to de church den 'cause we was all gwine be -destroyed dere together. Child, I give myself up den en I get just as -happy as I could be. - -"Oh, dey had slavery time doctors to tend de people when dey was sick in -dat day en time. Yes, mam, had dey plantation doctor right dere dat -would go from one plantation to de other en doctor dem what was ailin. -De doctor would come dere to my white folks plantation en tell my -grandmother what to feed dem on en she would give dem de remedy dey tell -her. Dey would use all kind of different herbs in dat day en time dat -dey would get out de old fields en de woods for dey cures. Honey, dey -was good too en dey good yet. I couldn' tell you half de herbs dey use, -but I recollects dere was boneset dat was good for fever, sage for de -baby, pennyroyal dat was good for girls dat catch cold, mint for sick -stomach, catnip to hope a cold, horehound to strike a fever en dat 'bout -all I recollect. No, mam, I can' remember half de herbs dere was in de -field, but I know we got some of dat sage growin dere in de garden now. - -"I hear talk of dem Yankees plenty times, but I don' know much to speak -'bout dem. Couldn' tell de first word 'bout dem. I dis kind of person, I -don' pay much mind to nothin like dat. Dey was white people, I think. - -"Seems like it was better livin long time ago den dere be now. Seems -like times so tight dese days. Reckon it 'cause I ain' able to work, but -dey tell me de people don' get nothin much to speak 'bout for dey work -dis day en time. Seems like I got along good when I was able to whip -round en 'bout. - -"I hear de people say dere such a thing as ghost, but I don' know en I -ain' de kind to speak 'bout de devil business. I hear talk dey could be -walkin right along wid you en dere some people could see dem en den dere -others could look wid all de eyes dey got en couldn' see dem. No, I ain' -never see dem. I has seen people wear one of dese dime round dey ankle, -but I never didn' ax dem nothin 'bout what dey wear it for 'cause some -people is curious en don' like for you to be axin dem 'bout things. I -did always keep out of fuss en I still keepin out it. Never did bother -none wid it. When I see anybody fussin, I shuns dem. My mammy didn' -raise me to do dat." - - - - -Mary Jane Kelley - - - *Interview with Mary Jane Kelley (85)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live in a rented house wid my daughter who takes care of me. I was -born in de Santuc section. My pa and ma was Richard Dawkins and Marsha -Shelton Dawkins. I think dey lived wid de Hendersons in de Maybinton -section near Broad River, but dey lived wid Marse Bill Jeter near Santuc -when I was born. My husband was Ike Kelley, he been dead good many -years. - -"Marse whipped me once or twice. We had to work in de cotton fields, and -I have split rails and ditched like men, too. - -"We had home-raised meat, lots of hogs and cattle. Marse had a big -garden and we got lots of vegetables. Marse fed slaves in a trough in de -yard. He had his own smokehouse whar he cured his meat. His flour was -ground in de neighborhood. Sometimes he give a slave family a small -patch to plant watermelons in. - -"We wore heavy brogans wid brass toes. Sometimes Marse would make his -own leather and have shoes made in de neighborhood and dese would have -wooden bottoms. He never let us learn to read and write. He never -allowed us to go from one place to another unless it was on his place. -De patrollers would git us if we didn't have a pass; even if we went to -church wid white folks we had to have a pass. Niggers didn't have no -church till atter de war; den dey built brush arbors in de woods. - -"I married at my house. We is Baptists, and I used to go and see dem -baptize sinners. - -"We used to go home at night when de work was over and go to bed and -rest. We worked all day on Saturdays, but never worked on Sundays. On -Christmas Days we had off, and Marse would give us good things to eat -and some whiskey to drink. - -"My mother worked around de house in slavery time, she helped cook, -clean up and wash dishes, and sometimes she would card, spin and weave. - -"Dey used to make a yellowish dye from mud, a grayish dye from maple -tree bark and a brownish dye from walnut tree bark. We allus planted by -de signs or de scales. Irish potatoes, turnips and sweet potatoes we -planted in de dark of de moon; while beans was planted in de sign of de -craw-fish. - -"I remember when de Yankees come through atter de war. Dey stole -everything and burned up everything dey couldn't steal. De Ku Klux was -in our section. Dey killed lots of niggers around dar. - -"I don't remember anything about Abraham Lincoln nor Jefferson Davis, -only heard about dem. I don't know much about Booker Washington, -either." - - - - -Gabe Lance - - - *Interview with Uncle Gabe Lance, age 77* - *Sandy Island, Murrells Inlet, S.C.* - --_Genevieve W. Chandler_ - -_BORN AND LIVING ON SANDY ISLAND_ - -"Great Peace! Missus, have to study up that!" - -Uncle Gabe had just arrived from Sandy Island at the country -post-office, having rowed over for his month's supply of sugar and -coffee and things he cannot raise. After the five or six mile row he -must needs walk three miles to the office. - -"I could remember when the Yankee boats come to Montarena--gun-boats. -'Bout ten o'clock in the morning. Soldier all muster out and scatter all -over the island. You know that cause-er-way? Gone over that two by two, -gun on shoulder glisten gainst the sun! Blue-coats, blue pants, hat all -blue. Come back to landing 'bout five o'clock. Have hog, geese, duck! -Broke in barn. Stole rations from poor people. My Grandfather the -Driver--slave Driver. Name Nelson. Maussa--Frank Harriott. Maussa gone -in swamp. Hid in woods. My Grandfather take old Miss Sally--Miss Sally -Harriott--count she couldn't walk with rheumatism--Grandfather took old -Miss Sally on he back to hid 'em in the woods where Maussa. Yankee stay -but the one day. Ravage all over us island. All goat, hog, chicken, -duck, geese--all the animal but the cow been take on the Yankee gun -boat. They broke in Maussa big rice barn and share all that out to the -colored folks. - -"Some my people run away from Sandy Islant. Go Oaks sea-shore and -Magnolia Beach and take row-boat and gone out and join with the Yankee. -Dem crowd never didn't come back. - -"Any slave run way or didn't done task, put 'em in barn and least cut -they give 'em (with lash) been twenty-five to fifty. Simply 'cause them -weak and couldn't done task--couldn't done task! 'Give 'em less rations -to boot! Cut 'em down to - - 1 qt. molasses - 1 lb. meat - 1 pk. corn for a week - -"Good Master all right. Give plenty to eat. Reasonable task. Task dem -time one-fourth to one half acre. Ditching man ten compass. Got to slush -'em out. Got to bail that water out till you kin see track. - -"All dem rice-field been nothing but swamp. Slavery people cut kennel -(canal) and dig ditch and cut down woods--and dig ditch through the raw -woods. All been clear up for plant rice by slavery people. - -"Beat my Pa and Ma to death and turn me loose! Ought to take care 'o me! -I send off my 35 ct. fust (first) time, next time twenty-five cents I -put what little I have in it. Ain't hear no answer. Some ten or fifteen -head round here send off blank and don't get no hearing! Take what -little I have and don't send me nothing 'TALL! I tired with that now! -Ain't had a hearing!" (Referring to 'old age compensation'). - - - - -Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence - - - *I* - *Interview with Ephriam Lawrence* - *Edisto Island, S.C.* - --_C.S. Murray_ - -"I don't 'member much 'bout slavery time 'cause I been lee (little) boy -when war declare. I raise up under de Murray--all my generation belong -to de Murray. Dey know how to treat slave. Ain't lick um much, hardly -any. Chillun hab easy time. All I been require to do was tote coal to -Mosser when he ready fer light. Adam Mack and me, we been de fire boy. -Mosser gib Adam to Mister Eberson. I ain't gib to nobody--'specially. - -"All white people ain't treat slave good. Some make um wuk haa'd all -day, and 'cuss um plenty. De slave who been live near Steamboat Landing -had rough time when dere old Miss git in tantrum. She been 'nuse to -trabbel all over de world, and when she come back, she call all de slave -together, and say: 'When I come, de debbil come.' - -"We family ain't had all dat to worry 'bout. Behave yourself and you all -right. Plenty to eat, plenty to drink. Run 'round and enjoy yourself if -you got uh mind to. Wuk when you wuk, play when you play. Ole Miss 'nuse -to 'tend all de sick nigger. Go from house to house, wid lee pair of -scale and bottle ram jam pack of calomel. Give lee nigger big dose of -castor oil, and dey git well quick, mighty quick. - -"Old Mosser 'nuse to keep all de likker in de world on hand. Had to keep -plenty, 'cause he friend drink lot and nigger drink lot too. He ain't -drink so much heself. Old nigger been live on de place call John Fraser, -same one I tell you 'bout, dat cut all dem tree down. John sure been -slick. When Mosser call fer he fine likker to hand 'round, John come -back and tell him all gone. Mosser want to know why. John make reply: -'Why, Mosser you know you hab Mister Binyard to supper last night and he -finish all dat good stuff. You know how Mr. Binyard drink. Sometime he -drink when your back t'un (turned). How you 'speck um to last?' Mosser -scratch he haid, and say, yes he know how Mr. Binyard drink, and mebbe -dats why de last bottle empty. He ain't satisfy, but he can't prove dat -John drink um. - -"Mosser 'nuse to keep de whiskey down in de cellar by de barrel, and he -draw um off in bottle when he need um and take um upstair to de wine -room. De nigger dat wuk 'round de house and de yaa'd, help dem self out -de barrel when dey feel tired. Mosser 'spect dem to do dat--dey 'title -(entitle) to um. Whiskey been kinder ration in dem day. - -"Nigger jest know haa'd time now. Ain't been dat way when I been lee -boy. You ain't lacking fer nutting den dat you really need. No tussling -'bout fer yourself and knock 'round from pillar to post. If we need -anything slavery time we ax (ask) fer um--make we want known. Any -feeling ably white man who hab slave, gib we what we need. No puzzling -'tall (at all). - -"Ain't I tell you 'bout dat time when John Fraser take overcoat from -Mosser right on Meeting Street? No. Well, it been uh cold day, and -Mosser tell John Fraser to meet him on de corner Meeting and Broad wid -de overcoat, 'cause he going out dat night and he want 'um. John been -wid Abel Wright, and de two of dem walk down de street to meet de Major. -John say to Abel: 'I cold as de debbil, and I going to ax Mosser fer he -coat.' Abel say: 'You crazy. He send for um and he sure ain't going, to -gib you he good new coat anyhow.' John say: 'You wait and see.' - -"Soon Mosser come in sight. When he see John he git mad right off 'cause -John hab on he overcoat. Before he kin say uh wud (word) John speak up -fast. He say: 'Yes, Mosser I got on your coat 'cause it mighty cold. Got -to excuse old nigger. You hab 'nother coat. I ain't got nutting but dis -here jumper. Go on home Mosser and git torrer (the other) coat. I going -to keep dis. He jest fit me. Go on home.' - -"Mosser study fer uh while, den he laugh. He see how keen de coat fit -John, and he know it been cold sure 'nough. John look sekker (just like) -dress up monkey in dat long tail overcoat, and dat make de Major laugh -all de more. So he tu'n round and go home, and John hab dat coat till he -die. - -"Old Mosser scarcely going to deny you nutting, if he like you." - - *II* - *Interview with Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence, about 80, farmer and - laborer* - *Edisto Island, S.C.* - --_C.S. Murray_ - -Mike Lawrence belonged to what he calls "de Murray state" in slavery -times. He was one of Major William Meggett Murray's "fire boys", who was -charged with the specific duty of bringing live coals to the master -whenever he wanted to light his pipe. Mike was only a small lad when war -was declared, but he remembers numerous stories relating to "Maussa's -niggers", some of which are worth recording. He speaks from first hand -knowledge, he says, for the things that he tells about happened during -his childhood and still stand out clearly in his mind. - -Here is one of Mike's stories: - -"Old John Drayton was de smaa'test of all de nigger de Maussa place. He -wuk so haa'd some time dat Maussa jest got to stop him, or he kill -heself. I nebber see sech uh man fer wuk in all my life. Maussa t'ink uh -lot ob um, 'cause he been uh good field hand, beside know lot 'bout -cutting 'ood (wood) and building fence. What been more old John play fer -all de dance on de plantation. He fair (really) mek fiddle talk. When -Maussa gib uh dance he always call 'pon John. - -"Yas, suh dat man sure could play. W'en he saw down on de fiddle and -pull out dat june (tune) 'Oh, de Monkey Marry to de Babboon Sister,' he -mek paa'son (parson) dance. - -"One day more dan all, Maussa Murray send wud (word) to John dat de cow -der break out ob de pasture, and he got to mend de fence quick. But John -done promise some nigger on Fenwick Island to play fer uh dance, and he -steal paa't (path) and go. (This expression means to go away by -stealth). Dat been Friday night and Maussa say John got to finish de -fence by sundown the next day. - -"W'en Old John ain't show up Saturday morning, Maussa ax eberybody where -he been and de nigger all band togedder (together) and tell Maussa dat -dey see him leabe in uh boat to go fish and he ain't seen since. Maussa -been worry sure 'nough den 'cause he t'ink John might be drown'. He -'gage (engage) four man to shoot gun all ober creek to mek John body -rise. Atter dat day drag all 'bout in de gutter. - -"Maussa gone bed wid heaby haa't (heart) 'cause he been very fond ob Old -John. - -"John come back from Fenwick Island early Monday morning and 'fore day -clean he in de 'odd der cut fence rail. Now, one hundred rail been call -uh good day wuk, but Old John decide he going to do better den dat. He -find fibe (five) tree grow close togedder, and he cut piece out ob every -one. Den he chop at the biggest tree till he fall, and dat tree knock -all de rest ober wid um. - -"W'en all dem tree fall togedder, it make sech uh noise, dat ole Maussa -hear um in he bed, and hasten to dress so he kin see w'at der go on in -de woods. - -"Maussa saddle de horse and ride 'till he git to de center ob de noise -and dere he see Old John cutting 'way like he crazy. Maussa been mad -sure 'nough, but den he glad to see John ain't drown'. He staa't to say -some t'ing but Old John interrupt, and sing out: 'Go 'way Maussa, I -ain't got time to talk wid you now.' - -"Old John den gather up five ax, and go to de five tree laying down on -de ground. He dribe uh ax in ebery tree and den grab uh neaby maul. W'en -Maussa look on, he tek de maul and run from one tree to torrer (one to -the other) and quick as he hit de ax, de tree split wide open. Maussa -staa't to say some t'ing 'gain but John ain't let him talk. He say: 'Go -on home to Missus, Maussa, I too 'shame, great God I too 'shame! Go on -home.' - -"Maussa tun (turn) 'round in he track and go home widout uh wud, 'cause -he see de old nigger ain't going to gib him any satisfaction 'bout -Saturday. W'en he go back in de 'ood dat evening he check up and find -dat Old John done cut five hundred rail. Oh, dem been man in dose day, I -tell you." - - - - -Ben Leitner - - - *Interview with Ben Leitner, 85 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"I see you go by de road de other day, on your way to old man Wade -Jackson's house. 'Member de old fellow dat am paralyzed, de one dat -lives beyond Fellowship graveyard? I was setten' in dat graveyard when -you and Marse Thomas pass in de automobile. I 'quire nex' day where you -was a goin', then Marse Thomas say you goin' 'round doin' sumpin' 'bout -old slaves and 'spect you'd like to see me. So here I is. - -"Well, I's knowed you since you was knee-high and Marse Thomas say, -maybe you help me to get a pension. If you can't, nobody can. - -"I was born a slave of old Marse Robin Brice, not far from New Hope -A.R.P. Church. My mistress was name Miss Jennie. My young marsters' was: -Marse John, Marse Chris, and Marse Tom. Marse Tom been a little runt; -they call him Tom Shanty. Him got to be a member of de Legislature, -after de war. All them went to de 'Federate War. Deir sister, Amanda, -marry Marse Bill Kitchen. You 'member him, don't you? Course you does. - -"'Member dat day baseball fust come out and they got up a team, not a -team then; they called it a 'Nine', when de game fust come to woodward -section? If you ketch a ball on de fust bounce, dat was a 'out'. No sich -thing as a mask for de face, gloves for de hands, and mats to protect -your belly. No curves was allowed, or swift balls throwed by de pitcher. -Him have to pitch a slow dropball. De aim than was to see how far a -batter could knock de ball, how fast a fellow could run, and how many -tallies a side could make. Mighty poor game if de game didn't last half -a day and one side or de other make forty tallies. - -"Marse Bill Kitchen was workin' in de store of his brudder-in-law, Marse -John A. Brice. Him was called out to make one of de 'Nines'. Him went to -de bat, and de very fust lick, him knock de ball way over center field. -Everybody holler: 'Run Kitchen! Run Kitchen! Run Kitchen!' Marse Bill -stand right dere wid de bat; shake his head and long black whiskers and -say: 'Why should I run? I got two more licks at dat ball!' They git de -ball, tech him and de umpire say: 'Out'. Marse Bill throw de ball down -and say; 'D--n sich a game!' Folks laugh 'bout dat 'til dis day. - -"My daddy name Bill Leitner. Him never b'long to Marse Robin. Him b'long -to Marse John Partook Brice. Mammy b'long to Marse Robin. Her name -Sarah. Daddy have to have a pass to come to see mammy. - -"My brudders and sisters was Eliza, Aleck, and Milton. Patrollers whup -daddy one time when they come to de house and find him widout a pass. -Marster have mammy whup us chillun, when us need a whuppen. Her milk de -cows, churn, and 'tend to de milk, butter and dairy. I helped her wid de -cows and calves, and churnin'. - -"You ask me is I had plenty to eat? Sure I did, wid all dat milk 'round -me all de time. Best thing I 'member right now was runnin' my finger -'round de jar where de cream cling, and suckin' it off my fingers. - -"Marster took good care of his slaves. They never went hungry or cold. - -"My marster and mistress live in a big two-story house. Us live in -little log house, wid log chimneys. I 'members fightin' chinches in de -summertime and fleas all de time. I wore a asafetida bag 'round my neck, -when a child to keep off croup, measles, diphtheria, and whoopin' cough. -Marster send for Dr. Walter Brice when any slave get very ill. - -"De fust year of freedom I work for Marse Chris Brice. Been wid de -Brices all my life. Now livin' on Marse Tom Brice's place. - -"When de Yankees come, they ramsack de house for silver and gold. They -burn de house and gin-house; carry off mules, hosses, and cows. They -took de chickens, load all de provisions, put them in a four-hoss -waggin, and leave us and de white folks cold and hungry. It was cold -winter time then too. - -"I marry a ginger cake lady, one-fourth white, daughter of Louis Grier. -Tho' I ain't much on looks as you sees me today, dat gal often, befo' -and after de weddin', put her arms 'bout me and say: 'Ben you is de -han'somest man I ever have see in de world.' - -"Us had three chillun. My wife led me to de light of de Lord. I jined de -Red Hill Baptist Church, under de spell of Peter Cook's preachin' and my -wife up in de choir a singin': 'Give me dat old time Religion.' Preacher -Miller is my pastor now. Peter Cook dead and gone to glory long years -ago. I 'members now dat old preacher's warm hand, when he took my hand -dat night I jined. Him say: 'God give you a life to live. You have a -soul to save. God give you His Son to save dat soul. Glory be His -name!." - - - - -Mary Ann Lipscomb - - - *Interview with Mrs. Mary Ann Lipscomb* - *Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -_REMINISCENCES_ - -"My husband, Nathan Lipscomb, was over on Mt. Pleasant fighting, and I -had been over there to see him. He was a private in the rear ranks. When -we were coming back to Charleston on a rice steamer, an open boat, the -Yankees were shelling the town. I played with my fingers in the water of -the bay as the steamer went along. We landed at a different landing from -the one where we had started from. When I got off the steamer I was very -much frightened, for they had shot through the hotel where we were -staying. - -"We immediately left the city by train. I hated to leave my husband so -far behind, but I could do nothing about it. In that day the train used -only wood for fuel. Only two trains a day came from Columbia to -Charleston. They made about 18 miles per hour, but that was good -traveling at that time. - -"My brother, Thomas Wilkins, went through the war. My father, Russell, -and Richard were in training when the surrender came. I stayed with my -father at White Plains while my husband was off to war. When we heard -that the Yankees were coming, we had the Negroes to hide all the horses -but two, and to hide the cows and turn the hogs loose to ramble in the -woods. - -"When the Yankees rode up to the yard and got off their horses, we could -easily tell they had been drinking. We told them that our horses were in -the stable and that the Negroes had fled in terror, which was true. They -ate up everything they could find and ransacked the closets and pantry. -They then caught the chickens, took the two horses in the stable and -went away. - -"The darkies came back with the cows and horses, and we got settled for -the night. About nine o'clock, the Yankees came unexpectedly and took -all the horses and cows. They killed the cows, and made our darkies help -them to butcher them and barbecue them. The Yankees soon ate everything -up and left with our horses. - -"My grandmother, Agnes Wood, gave my mother, Elizabeth Wilkins, a -beautiful young mare. The Yankee who took that mare, turned over a pot -of fresh soap when my mother asked him not to take the mare. Our cook, -Matilda, had the soap ready to cut in the pot, so we saved some of it. - -"During the second year of the war I was making me a homespun dress, and -while my father helped me with the weaving he told me of a dress that -one of his friends made during the Nullificatlon days. I carded and spun -the filling for my new dress, wove it, made the dress and wore it to -Charleston when I went to see my husband. It had broad, black stripes -the width of my two fingers, and two green threads between the black -stripes. It also had a little yellow stripe. It was really a beautiful -dress and looked very much like silk." - - - - -Govan Littlejohn - - - *I* - *Interview with Govan Littlejohn* - *Park Ave. and Liberty St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Capt. Sam Littlejohn whipped Miss Sallie H.'s slave. His name was Ambus -H. Cap' tied him to a tree. Never had no corn-shuckings, us shucked de -corn quick as us hauled it from de field. - -"My marse kilt as many as twenty hogs every time he butchered, which be -about fo' times every winter. Marse Richard Littlejohn never married. He -lived wid his mother and seven brothers. - -"Marse was one good man and he love his darkies. He never had no -overseer, because he had only 'bout 80 slaves as I remembers. I de -onliest chile dat my ma had and I be 88 if I live to see dis coming -December. My ma teach me to fight nothing in dis world but de devil. - -"My father was Peter Littlejohn. Lawyer Tommie Dawkins was his marster. -I never was sold. I married, but never had no chilluns. My old lady been -gone over de river dese many years, so many dat I cannot recall how -many. Yes Sir, I used to light my ma's pipe and wear home-made clothes. -Ole lady Rhoda was de seamstress. She died not long atter we was -liberated. - -"I lives in de Woods Funeral Home which is on de corner of Park Ave. and -Liberty Street. Once I befriend a man in distress. He now own interest -in de undertaking 'stablishment and dat is why I has a room dar in my -old age." - - *II* - *Interview with Govan Littlejohn* - *387 S. Liberty St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Govan Littlejohn, of Spartanburg, told the writer he was 87 years old -and that he remembered slavery times. He said he was born on the farm of -Dicky Littlejohn, located near Grindal Shoals. He said Richard -Littlejohn owned a mill on Pacolet River, though his brother, Jim -Littlejohn, owned the land. This was a grist mill. Govan Littlejohn's -father was a colored man from another farm and his name was Hawkins, but -he took the name of Littlejohn. He remembers the Yankee Soldiers passing -in the public road, but they did not bother any one there; didn't take -or steal anything, and just passed on quietly. He says his master did -not know how to whip anybody, though he remembers him catching hold of -him one day and switching him with a small twig, saying "You little -rascal, you." His master whipped some of the grown negroes but not hard -enough to hurt them, though once or twice he saw a grown negro with bare -back feel the switch. "But he did not know how to whip anybody." - -"Yes, I been conjured," he said. "You see that left foot? Well, once -when I was a young 'buck', I was setting up to a gal and there was -another fellow setting up to her, too. I held a little bit the upper -hand with the gal. But when my left foot began to swell up and pain me, -I had to go to bed. I stayed there three months. Dr. Nott came to see me -and treated me with corn poultices, but they would dry up and fall off -and I didn't get any better. He lanced my foot three times, but nothing -but blood would come. One day a herb doctor came to see me and said he -could cure my foot. He took corn meal poultices, rhubarb roots and some -other things, and it wasn't long before my foot got well. About that -time, my mother found the 'conjuration' right in the front yard at the -door-steps. I must have stepped over it, or got my foot caught in it -some way. The 'conjuration' was, pins, feathers and something else all -tied up in a bag. My mother heard that if it was put in running water, -the conjurer would leave the country. So pretty soon after she put the -stuff in running water, that fellow left the country. He got his arm -caught in a cotton gin not long after he left, and got it chewed off -right to his shoulder. - -"Vegetables should be planted during the dark of the moon. One day, the -man I was working for told me he wanted his Irish potatoes planted. I -told him that wasn't the time to plant potatoes. He told me to plant -some in one particular place that day and call them his potatoes, then -when I thought the time was right, to plant the rest in another place. -His potatoes came up and made prettier vines than mine, had pretty -blooms on them and the vines grew very high. He ragged me about how fine -his potatoes were. He told me to gather the potatoes under my vines for -the house, but not to disturb his potatoes. For several days, the family -ate potatoes from my vines, then I gathered up the potatoes left. I got -five or six wheelbarrows full. I then dug his potatoes and got a little -more than one wheelbarrow full. He told me to plant the garden when I -thought the time was right, and not to say anything to him about when -and what to plant. I always had plenty of vegetables for his family." - - - - -Easter Lockhart - - - *Interview with Easter Lockhart (80)* - *322 Hill Street, Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Folks thinks that I was born round Easter, but that ain't so. March the -9th is what they always told me. The year I cannot recollect hearing, -but by my count that I keep I am running close to eighty years. White -folks give me my age to keep when I married, and I have kept it ever -since, so I cannot be far wrong. - -"It was the chief of police's grandpa that I knew and it was off his -place that my old man come from. I was born Easter Norris and I married -Nathan Lockhart when I was young, maybe fifteen, ain't sure about that. -He was a little older than me. In slavery I was born and my mother was -sold while I was a very young child, so they say. We then lived with Mr. -Clayton Clark. Freedom broke when I was around thirteen, and we then -went back to the Lockhart Plantation. There is where I nursed Henry, a -little baby. He is now the chief of police. Miss Bessie, his mother, had -me to clean up her yards for her. - -"Miss Bessie fixed me up to be baptized at the Limestone Baptist church. -It was then near Johnson Street and across from where Central school now -stands. It was a Negro church. We had to go to the spring pond called -Austin's Pond where all the baptizing took place in those days. Mr. -Austin had a mill there run by a big water wheel. The white folks -carried on their baptizing there, too. The first warm Sunday in May was -when I was baptized. - -"All Saturday I prayed and Miss Bessie told me what I was going to do, -and read to me from the Bible about baptizing and about John the Baptist -baptizing Christ. Yes sir, the Bible say Christ went down in the water, -in the waters of Jordan. Miss Bessie was telling my ma how to fix my -clothes while she was reading the Bible to me. All my clothes was white -but my shoes. In those days they did not have white shoes. I wore white -cotton stockings. I had a white dress to wear to the pond and I took two -pairs of white stockings. A crowd was to be baptized at 2:30 o'clock -that evening. The sun was good and hot. I went with my folks. Miss -Bessie went and all the white folks went to see their Negroes go under. - -"The dress I wore to the baptizing was starched so stiff it stood out. I -wore a white handkerchief over my head that Miss Bessie give me. On top -of that I had a white bonnet that had frills and tucks all over it. When -we got there the banks of Austin's Pond was lined with Negroes shouting -and singing glory and praises. They sang all the songs they could think -of and the preacher lined out songs to them. The people to be baptized -congregated before the preacher, and he told them what to do. Then we -went in and put on the clothes we was to go under in. - -"I had a long white gown gathered from my shoulders and it had a big -kind of sleeves. On my head I wore a white cap and kept on my white -stockings, but I pulled off my black shoes. Never had no white shoes -that I know of way back then. I felt so good that I seemed to walk real -light. While we were getting in our baptizing clothes we shouted praises -as the people on the banks sang. Some of us jumped up. When my time come -I started to the pond and just before the preacher turned to take my -hand, I shouted 'Lord have Mercy' and clapped my hands over my head. -Somebody said, 'Dat child sho is gitting a new soul'. - -"Down in the water I went. First it hit my ankles and then I felt the -hem of my skirts getting wet. I looked down and my gown was floating on -top the water. I took my hand and pushed it down. The preacher pulled me -to him and I went in water to my waist. I said 'Oh Lordy' when that -water hit my stomach. The preacher said, 'Now sister, you just hold your -breath and shut your mouth; trust in the Lord and don't act like a -grunting pig, but have faith'. Then the singing seemed far off and the -preacher's voice got deep. He put his big hand over my mouth and told me -to limber up my back. His other hand was under my back. He pushed me -over, and down in the water I went; then up I come. The preacher put a -towel over my face, and while I was getting water out of my eyes and -mouth, he was saying about the Lord done reached down from Heaven and -created a new soul. I felt real funny when I turned to walk up out of -the water. I could hardly walk for I had on so many clothes and they -were so heavy. As soon as I could I got into the clothes that I wore to -the baptizing and put on my black shoes and the pair of white stockings -that I had fetched with me. While aunt Kizie Lockhart was tying the -handkerchief around my head that Miss Bessie give me, I told her about -how I felt. She said, 'Why, sure child, ain't you done washed your sins -away and got converted?' - -"Then she grabbed me by the hand and we went out among the people -shouting praises to the Lord. I ain't never felt the same since. Aunt -Kizie took me round to say 'howdy' to Miss Bessie. When the preacher had -got them all baptized, we went into the church and had services. The -white folks went on home after the baptizing was over. At the church we -shouted till we could not shout no more. Folks don't like that now. They -don't feel good when they join the church no more, either. I ain't had -nothing to come against me since I was baptized. My head loses lots of -things, but not my religion. - -"Lots of folks was at Mr. Henry's Pa's house for his infair dinner. Mr. -Hiram and Miss Bessie give the infair after the wedding. Miss Agnes, his -sister come back for the wedding. Mr. Henry had sharp snapping eyes and -he was good looking then. His eyes can still snap. When he looked at -Miss Mary his face would light up. Her name was Miss Mary Gilmer, and -she lived up near the lead mine. She sure looked good in white. I did -not see the wedding, so I had to look careful at them when they come in -Miss Bessie's front door so I could take it all in. - -"The infair sure was fine. The table was most breaking down with turkey, -chicken, ham, salads, pies and cakes. All the things to eat, already -fixed on the plates, was fetched in from the kitchen by the Negroes. The -chickens and turkeys just set on the table for ornaments and was not -touched until the next day. - -"The infair started at three o'clock in the afternoon. There were three -or four tables for the people to sit at. The dining room and one other -room were used to seat the guests at the tables while they ate. I can -still see Miss Bessie's white linen table cloth that reached nearly to -the floor. Such a time as I had the week before, washing and ironing the -big linen napkins and shining the silver. - -"They all looked mighty fine at the tables in their fine clothes. I -could not help looking often at Mr. Henry's wife. Miss Bessie had done -studied everything out so as it all went off fine." - - - - -Gable Locklier - - - *Interview with Uncle Gable Locklier, age 86* - *Gourdin, S.C.* - --_H. Grady Davis and Mrs. Lucile Young, Florence, S.C._ - -"I born in Clarendon county, 50 yards of Davis Station. Massa Henry -Bethune dat have big plantation dere was my first boss en after he died, -Mrs. Bethune sold everything en moved to Summerton. Stayed dere till she -married Mr. Thomas, de preacher, dat have big place in Summerton wid -trees in long row right up to de door. He bought place three miles from -Summerton called de Bashet place. Mrs. Bethune was a sport lady en was -good to me en Mr. Thomas good man too, but he was a Yankee. He come to -Summerton to be a school teacher en won' long fore he commence to escort -my Missus en dey made up in a year or two, I hear ma say. I was in de -kitchen en I hear dem. She told ma, 'Eliza, I gwine marry Mr. Thomas.' -Ma say, 'You is.' 'Yes, you reckon he gwine be all right?' 'I reckon he -is, he looks all right.' 'Well, I gwine marry him en try him.' Mr. -Thomas, he Yankee, but he fought for de Confederates. - -"Massa Henry Bethune had big plantation en had a right sharp of slaves -dere. De boss house was here en my house next en all de other slave -house was string along in row dat way. My white folks, dey didn' exactly -treat you as most of dem did. Dey come round en examine you house en see -what you needed. All us live in two room pole house dat have a wood -floor. Old people sleep on some kind of bed prop wid rope wind up like -cow yoke en have quilts en mattresses taking white homespun. De others -sleep on de floor. Dey give us good clothes made out of blue denim cloth -en some had checked or stripe goods. Den dey give us heavy woolen -clothes to wear in de winter time en had Sunday clothes too. My Massa -was good to his slaves all de time. Have own garden dat my mother en -sister would work en my mother done all de cookin for de slaves 'cause -our folks all eat out de same pot. Cook rice en fat meat en dese collard -greens en corn bread en cabbage. Make plenty of de cabbage en eat heap -of dem. - -"I didn' never have to work hard, but dey work dem till dark come on -some places. Dey blow horn en us go to work after daylight en sometimes -get off in time to eat supper by sundown. I was so slow dat when de rest -knock off, dey make me work on. Mr. Thomas, he stand en look at me. My -hands just look like dey put on wrong. When I quit off, I eat supper en -den I go to bed. - -"I ain' never see any slaves punished but I hear tell 'bout it. Some of -dem run away 'cause dey get tired of workin en if dey catch em, dey sho -whip em. Used to have to get ticket from boss or Missus to go any place -off de plantation widout you get punish for it. I hear tell 'bout de -overseer en de driver whip plenty of de slaves en some of de time, dey -would put em in de screw box over night. Sell em if dey didn' do like -dey tell em to do. Speculator come dere to buy slaves en dey sell em to -de highest bidder. I hear em say a certain one bring $1400 or $1500. I -know a man offered my boss $1000 for my brother, Joe, but he wouldn' -sell him. - -"My Massa would give me money now en den. First money I remember he give -me was 75 paper money. He tell me to check his horse en bring him up to -de yard en give me 75 en said, 'I can' carry you wid me dis mornin.' I -was 'bout 9 or 10 years old den. I stood up on de block en wondered why -he couldn' carry me en when I go back to de house, I see my Missus cryin -en she say, 'We won' see him no more.' When he come back, he shot -through de foot. He tell me to go to de blacksmith shop en bring -crutches. Den he went to de war again en when he come back, he was shot -on de right side of de neck. Give me a quarter in silver money dat time. -I ain' never been to de store fore den, but I go to de storekeeper en I -say, 'Mr. King, half dis money mine en half Joes.' I thought it was his -place to give me what I wanted en when I walk out, he say, 'Come back en -get your money,' I carried it home en give it to brother Joe en he give -it to pa en don' know what come of it after dat. Bought plug of tobacco -for pa wid de other money I had. - -"Our folks didn' get no learnin much nowhe' in dem days, but my Missus -sister child learn me right sharp. Dey was boardin at our house en when -I started to school, I didn' have no trouble. I remembers I found a -little book one time en man say he pay me 10 for it. Ma give me a -needle en thread en little sack en I sew my 10 in it. Put it in de -rafter en it stay dere till next Christmas. Believe I took it down en -tote it a long time fore man come by sellin tobacco en I bought piece en -give it to pa. Man give my sister bigger piece for a dime den he give -me. - -"De slaves what belong to my white folks have frolicsome days all -through de year. Go to frolic on Saturday en go to white folks church on -Sunday en sit in portion of church in de gallery. Den on Christmas eat -en drink de best liquor dere was en de Fourth of July de one day dat dey -have to go to [HW: Eutaw] Springs. Dey go in buggies en wagons en have -plenty of everything to eat dat day. I know dere was a battle up dere, -although I didn' never go wid em. Cotton pickin en corn shuckin days -won' no work times, dey was big frolics. De first one shuck red corn had -to tell who his best girl was en all dem things. All dem come to cotton -pickin dat want to en pick cotton en cook big dinner. Pick cotton till -'bout 5:30 in de evenin' en den knock off for de eats en de dancin. Go -to all de slaves weddings too. Dey would mostly get married 'bout on a -Sunday evenin'. - -"I was 'bout 15 year old when freedom come, but I don' remember much -'bout dat day. I remembers de Yankees come to de house one day. De white -folks had a bull dog tied in de smoke house en one Yankee hold de gun on -de dog en another take de meat out de house. Den dey come out en set -table en eat. Dog didn' try to bite em 'cause dog know when to bite. -Somebody ask em to have some rice en dey say, 'I would cut my throat -fore I eat dat thing. - -"I tell you de truth wid de treatment I been gettin I don' see why I -could fought slavery time. I lives here by myself en I used to get check -but check don' come no more en I just lives on what people gets me. -Government got woman bring me wood en bucket of water en niece give me -dis house en acre of land to live on my lifetime. Cook only one meal a -day 'cause I can' afford it. De water I got it ever since yesterday -mornin. Sunday mornin I had hominy en salt water fish en dat de last -time I had good meal. (Wednesday afternoon). Lady tell me dere ain' -gwine be no more checks. It be two months since I get check en lady come -en I tell her I hungry en she go to Gourdin en buy me two cans en loaf -of bread. Had two big watermelons en was saving one for Miss Lanes. Girl -come runnin in en say my niece house on fire en I go runnin to see 'bout -fire en my biggest watermelon gone. Dat de one I been saving for Miss -Lanes en den I wake up on Friday mornin en de other one gone. Next thing -I know, dey started on my late ones. One night woman come in patch en -thump en thump. I was standin at de peach tree in de patch en she have -one en when she get near me, she stoop down en pick another. I say, 'You -reckon dat one ripe?' She sho drop em en run dat time. - -"Thank you, sir, your kindness will not be forgotten. Dis here dozen -matches last me till next week. - -"Good-by. Yunnah come back." - - - - -Walter Long - - - *Interview with Walter Long, 83 years old* - *2440 Sumter Street, Columbia, S.C.* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -"I's a little bit stiff, when I tries to git up, and sometimes when I's -walkin' I weaves and wobbles like a drunk person, but know all dat comes -from old age. I has been healthy and strong all my life. De onliest -trouble I has ever had in my life has been wid my teeth; they sho' has -been bad a long time, and now I has only one or two old snags left. I -don't want no store bought teeth nohow, 'cause they 'minds me of a hoss -or mule wid a bit in their mouth floppin' up and down. No sir, I don't -want them triflin' things botherin' me, I think I can take care of de -little I gits to eat wid dese few snags I has left. - -"Me and all my folks was slaves and b'longs to Master John Long, and his -wife, Betsy Long. Their plantation was six miles north of Chapin, -Lexington County, South Carolina. De plantation was a big one and lay -'long Saluda River. You know it had to be a big place 'cause master had -over three hundred slaves in all. Everything de slaves needed was made -right dere on de plantation; all de food 'cept sugar and coffee, and -what us need to wear, 'cept buttons for de clothes. - -"Master and mistress raised four fine boys, no girls I 'members 'bout. -De boys names was: West, Mid, Gradon and Hill. Master West and Mid -served as overseers on de plantation. Dese boys being de overseers, was -de whole reason us slaves was treated good and kind. They knowed us -slave would b'long to them some day, when old Master John died. De -slaves never worked hard, and they was give every Saturday and Sunday to -rest. - -"Our food in slavery time was good and a lot of it. De food was cooked -good and prepared for us by servants dat didn't do nothin' else but -'tend to de food dat de rest of de slaves had to eat. When us had beef -us went to de pasture for it; when us had pork, us went to de hog lot. -De cabbage and turnips come from de garden and field dere at home, and -when us was eatin' them us knowed they didn't come from out yonder, like -de stuff us has to eat dese days. - -"De houses us slaves lived in was built of logs and then de logs was -covered over inside and out wid plank, dat made them tight and warm. -Every family was furnished plenty of covering, so they wouldn't suffer -in cold weather but in summer de most of us slept on pallets on de -floor. - -"Master John was a business man, but he never got too busy to be polite -and gentle to mistress. Both of them has good schoolin'. They knowed -just how to treat both their slaves and their white friends. They was -good to all, and they never turnt anybody down dat come to them for -help. Many was de poor white folks dat 'most lived on Master John. They -was what I calls, real white folks; no sich people is easy found dese -days by de poor niggers. - -"Mistress was mighty 'ticular 'bout our 'ligion, 'cause she knowed dere -was no nigger any too good nohow. Us slaves 'sorbed all de good us had -in us from our mistress, I really believes. She was so kind and gentle, -she moved 'mong us a livin' benediction. Many was de blessings dat fell -from her hands for de sick and 'flicted. She got tired, but I has never -seen her too weary to go to a cryin' child or a moanin' grown person on -de place and 'quire what was de matter. Us was 'bliged to love her, -'cause she knowed us more better than us knowed ourselves. More than -dat, she and her sons' wives teached us how to read, write and figure, -'nough to help us in small business. - -"When did I git married? I wish you hadn't ask dat question. I sho' had -a bad mixup wid my first gal. You see it was dis way: I was good grown -befo' I left my daddy and mammy who was then farmin' for Master Mid -Long, on the other side of Saluda River. My mammy had a heap of sense -dat she got from de white folks. So, one day while me and she was -pickin' cotton out in de field she all at once stopped pickin' cotton, -straightened up, pointed her finger at me and said: 'Look here nigger, -you knows I don't like for you to be gwine to see dat brown skin gal -what lives over yonder on Cling Creek. After I has raised you up de best -I knowed how and then for you to do like you is, foolin' your time 'way -wid such sorry women makes your old mammy sick and mad all over. One -other thing I wants to say to you is dat some of dese nights when you go -to see dat gal, you is gwine to see something dat is sho' goin' to call -to your mind what I's sayin' to you.' Well boss, you know how 'tis wid -men. I knowed mammy could give good 'vice, and I knowed she sho' -wouldn't do me no harm. But what 'bout dat I's gwine to see some nights -when I go to see dat gal? So I thinks and thinks 'bout dat two or three -days and never did satisfy my mind what dat something gwine look like. - -"Late one evenin', close to sunset, several days after mammy said what -she did to me, I kinda loafed off down to de cross-road store, 'tending -I was gwine after some 'bacco. I fool 'round de store a good long while -like I didn't have nothin' on my mind 'cept my 'bacco. I had a plenty on -my mind, 'cause as dark come I headed up de Cling Creek road towards dat -gal's house. When I got close to her house I seen her down at de fence -in front of de house. Soon as she glimpsed me, she 'tended like she was -lookin' for something dat wasn't dere. I knowed what she was lookin' -for, 'cause women has got their own 'culiar way of foolin' men; keepin' -them from knowin' what they are thinkin' 'bout. Dat gal knowed all de -time in dat little kinky head of hers dat I was goin' to see her dat -night. When I spoke to her she didn't 'pear to be de least bit -frightened or surprised. - -"Quick as a cat she climbed up and set down on top of de fence, while -from de other side I leaned against it, close by. Dere she was smilin' -just as shy and skittish as a squirrel. Us stayed right dere and talked -and talked 'bout everything we knowed 'bout and a heap we didn't know -'bout, 'til de big yellow moon stood straight up, befo' I said farewell -to her and begun makin' my way down de big road towards home. - -"I went on down de road whistling wid nothin' on my mind 'cept dat gal. -When I got 'bout a mile from home I seen a woman wid a basket on her -arm, a little piece ahead, comin' towards me. Just as I turnt to let her -pass I kinda raised my hand to my hat to speak. But bless your soul, I -ain't seen dat woman no more. I stopped and looked everywhere and dere -was nobody in dat road 'cept me. Well, dere you is. What does all dis -mean nohow? So de more I thought de more a 'culiar feelin' crept over my -body. Then I say: 'Here I is been lookin' for hants and spirits all my -life and I ain't never seen one befo' dis one.' By dis time dat 'culiar -feelin' had reached my foots and they got to movin' 'bout uneasy like. -Dis ain't gwine to do I said and wid dat I tore off down de road faster -than a wild hoss. White man, I believes I run de first hundred yards in -nearly no time and after dat I kinda picked up a bit. I begun to feel -dat I wasn't makin' as good time in de road as I ought to be makin' so I -cut 'cross de field towards a narrow strip of woods close to home. When -my foots hit de rough grass and corn stalks of de field they took holt -then and got to bird-working[2], smooth and nice like machinery. I -thought I heard something back of me, I glanced back to see what it was -and befo' I could git my head straight again I smacked head on into a -pine tree as big as I is. Well, my runnin' ceasted right dere, de big -yellow moon went dark, a breeze fanned my face, and then everything got -still. - - [2] Swift movement - -"De next mornin' when my mind come back to me, de sun was shinin' -straight in my face. I lay dere on de ground blinkin' my eyes, wonderin' -if I was still livin'. After a while I tried to move and sho' 'nough I -was dere all right. - -"After de war de most of us slaves stayed on de plantation and worked -right on just like nothin' had happened. I lived with my mammy and daddy -a long time after I was grown. Old master and mistress died soon after -de war and then my family went to live wid young Master Mid on his -plantation on de other side of Saluda River. - -"When I got some over thirty years old I got married and then I left de -farm, moved lower down in Lexington County and went to work at a -sawmill. I worked in de sawmill business 'bout twenty-five years. -Rollin' big logs to de saw wid a kanthook ain't no easy job, but it was -better to do dat than nothin'. I made a pretty good livin' but didn't -save no money, 'cause money was scarce in them days, nobody was paid -much for their labor in them times. - -"Soon after I quit working in de sawmill business I moved to Columbia -and has been here every since. De white folks has been pretty good to me -here, 'cause I has had work most all de time. I has always been able to -pay my bills and support my family right good. I believes de reason of -dat is, I has never bothered nobody, and attended to my own little -business as best as I knowed. Even now, as old as I is, I can git work -from my white friends 'most all de time, dat's right. - -"Did I marry dat first gal what mammy fussed wid me 'bout? Listen at -dat. No sir, I ain't seen dat gal in 'bout fifty years and I don't know -if she is dead or not." - - - - -Gillam Lowden - - - *Interview with Gillam Lowden (75)* - *Greenwood, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born at Greenwood, S.C. about 1862. I can't 'member anything -'bout de Confederate War or anything right after de war. I heard my -mammy and daddy talk 'bout de patrollers but I don't know much. My daddy -was Abram Lowden and my mammy was Sidney Williams dat married my daddy. -Our marster in slavery was Dr. Davis, and his wife, our mistress, was -Miss Martha Davis. Dey didn't learn us to read and write. - -"Atter de war, my mammy always done washing on Sad'day atternoons, and -us little chaps helped to tote water and bring her wood. I 'member de -old brick oven our marster had. Dey cooked lots of bread on Sad'day -atternoons to last several days. Den we had corn-shuckings, de women had -quiltings. - -"Us chaps didn't play many games 'cept marbles, rope-skipping, and -jumping high rope. We didn't git to go to school. - -"Some of de cures dey made was from gypsum weed, which was boiled into a -tea and drunk. Thread-salve buds was picked and strung on thread like a -necklace, den put around de neck to keep off chills. - -"I jined de church when I was 31 years old, because I was seeking -salvation. I wanted God to release me from my sins and dat was de way I -had to do it. We can't git along widout Jesus. - -"I never did think anything 'bout Jeff Davis or Abraham Lincoln, and -don't know nothing 'bout Booker Washington." - - - - -Emma Lowran - - - *Interview with Emma Lowran* - *550 Horseshoe St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -A colored woman who states she was about four years old during slavery -times, states she doesn't remember much about those days, except what -her mother told her. Her mother was a slave and was given to Bill Smith, -otherwise known as "Big-eyed Smith", and they used to live on his -plantation somewhere between Glenn Springs and Spartanburg. The actual -possession of her mother was 'vested in Mrs. Bill Smith, as the mother -was presented to Mrs. Smith by her father. Her mother's work was around -the house, such as cleaning house, washing, milking the cows etc.; but -she never had to do the cooking for the Smith family. The source states -that she and the other children of slaves used to play in the sand and -have a good time--just as all children do. Sometimes Mr. Smith would go -to whip her mother for some reason, but Mrs. Smith wouldn't let him do -so, for she told her husband that the woman belonged to her and she was -not going to have her whipped. However, she stated she does not remember -ever seeing Big Eyed Smith whipping any slave, for his wife would always -stop him. As a whole, she and her mother were treated very kindly, -though at times they did not have enough to eat. Mrs. Smith would always -tell her mother who was milking to give the children plenty of milk. -This woman was too young to remember anything about the Yankee soldiers -coming to their place, but one day a black man came by the house and -told her mother she was now free. She states her mother continued to -work for Mr. Smith after she was set free. She was sent to school where -she learned to read and write, but when she became older, she came to -Spartanburg to live, because it looked like in the country, no one could -get a doctor out there until he or she was about dead; so she wanted to -be in town where she could get a doctor when she got sick. - - - - -Nellie Loyd - - - *I* - *Interview with Nellie Loyd* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born in Union County, S.C., near Goshen Hill, about 91 years ago. -I belonged to Mr. George Buchanan. He went to the war and got his right -arm shot off. After the war, his sons moved to Oklahoma. He was good to -his slaves, and never allowed any negro under 12 years of age to work in -the fields. I helped around the house until I was 12 years old. - -"The soldiers were called 'minute men'. They had wide hats with palmetto -buttons in front. They sometimes mustered at Goshen Hill. Some of the -slaves was hanged for stealing, but my master never hanged any. - -"I married Nozby Loyd soon after the war, and had three children. I come -to Newberry about thirty years ago, and have worked with white families -or in the fields." - - *II* - *Interview with Nellie Loyd (91)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I lived wid Albert and Carrie Coleman. Dey is no kin, but dey give me a -place to live. I am too old to work much, but I does what I can to help. - -"I was born near Goshen Hill in Union County, and I was a slave of Marse -George Buchanan. He give us good quarters to live in and plenty to eat. -He was a good master. I believe he never whipped any slaves, for I never -did hear of it if he did, and he never allowed anybody else to whip dem -either. - -"My grand-mother's mother come from Virginia. It was said she was kin to -de Indians. - -"I worked around de house most of de time. My mother cooked at de home -of Marse George. She kept de keys to de smokehouse where dar was always -plenty of home-raised smoked meat. Marse made his own flour, too. He -made salt by digging a deep hole in de ground and getting de mud dat had -salt in it. We never had our own gardens, but we had small watermelon -patches. Marse had a big garden. - -"Marse had a blacksmith shop and he used charcoal in it. To make de -charcoal he would cut down pine trees and pile de big limbs up and put -dirt over dem; den burn de limbs and dat would leave de charcoal. He -would pour water over it den. - -"Some of Marse Buchanan's boys went to war, and some of dem got killed. -Dey had patrollers den, and if dey caught you off de place dey would -have twelve men to whip you. - -"We never worked at night except sometimes when it rained and we had to -get de corn shucked or de fodder hauled to de barn. Sometimes we picked -cotton by de light of de moon. We worked on Saturday afternoons but not -on Sundays. On Christmas we had a good time and good things to eat. De -men would drink beer and whiskey. Beer was made from locusts and -persimmons, and everybody would drink some of it. - -"De slaves never learned to read and write. Dey never had any churches, -but dey had to go to church and so dey went to de white folks' church -and set in de back or de gallery. Niggers had lots of dancing and -frolics. Dey danced de 'flat-foot'. Dat was when a nigger would slam his -foot flat down on de floor. De wooden bottom shoes sho would make a loud -noise. At weddings everybody would eat and frolic. - -"We had our own leather made and tanned at home; den it was tacked to de -wood soles to make shoes. - -"When anybody got sick, de old folks made hot teas from herbs dat dey -got out of de woods. One was a bitter herb called 'rhu'. It was put in -whiskey and drunk to prevent sickness. Marse always give it to de nigger -children, and to de grown ups, too. Dey hung asafetida bags around de -necks of de kids to keep down sickness. - -"When freedom come, Marse said we was free, but he kept us till dat crop -was finished, and some of de niggers stayed on for several years and -worked for wages. - -"De yankees come through our section, and Marse hid his meat and things -in deep holes dat he dug in de cemetery. He built a fence around de -cemetery. De yankees took good horses and left poor ones. Dey made -niggers cook for dem all night. De Ku Klux wore white clothes and white -caps. Dey made out dey was ghosts from de cemetery, and dey would get a -man and carry him off, and we never would see him again. De Red Shirts -come in '76. I 'member my husband voted once or twice. He was a -Republican; but dey soon put a stop to dat. - -"I think Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson must have been all right; just -heard about them. Dey said dat Jeff Davis surrendered under a June apple -tree. Just heard about Booker Washington and dat is all I know. Reckon -he is doing good work. - -"I joined de church when I was quite young, because meningitis was in de -neighborhood killing so many folks and I got scared. - -"Atter de war de niggers started up hill; den went back. Since dat time -up to now, dey has been working most on farms. Some rent small farms and -some work as wage hands or share-croppers. Dem dat went to town have -worked as carpenters and other such work. - -"I can't 'member anything more, except dat marse had a still-house on -his place, and other farmers did, too. Dey made brandy and whiskey from -peaches, apples and grapes dat dey raised; den sold it to other farmers -in de neighborhood who didn't have as much as dey did." - - - - -Amie Lumpkin - - - *Interview with Amie Lumpkin, 88 years old* - *1411 Pine St. Columbia, S.C.* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -"I was born on de plantation of Master John Mobley, in Fairfield County, -South Carolina, in 1849. Both my parents was slaves on that plantation -at that time. Master Mobley had a big farm and he had many slaves and -chillun when I began to understand things there. My daddy worked in de -field, but my mammy worked in de big house, helpin' to cook. - -"There was pretty good order on de plantation, generally at de time in -1856, when I was 'bout seven years old. Most of de slaves go right along -doin' their chores, as expected of them, but a few was restless, and -they break de rules, by runnin' 'bout without askin', and always there -was one or two who tried to escape slavery by goin' far away to the -North. - -"I 'member seein' one big black man, who tried to steal a boat ride from -Charleston. He stole away one night from Master Mobley's place and got -to Charleston, befo' he was caught up with. He tell the overseer who -questioned him after he was brought back: 'Sho', I try to git away from -this sort of thing. I was goin' to Massachusetts, and hire out 'til I -git 'nough to carry me to my home in Africa.' - -"It was de rule when a trial was bein' held lak this, for all de bosses -and sometimes de missus to be there to listen and to ask the run'way -slave some questions. After this one talked, it was Missus Mobley -herself who said; 'Put yourself in this slave's shoes, and what would -you do? Just such as he has. The best way to treat such a slave is to be -so kind and patient with him, that he will forget his old home.' - -"He was led away and I never did hear if he was whipped. He lak a -Cherokee Indian, he never whimper if he should be whipped 'til de blood -stream from him; but I do know he never got away again. He was de first -one to pick up his hat and laugh loud, when President Lincoln set all -slaves free in January, 1863. He say: 'Now I go, thank de Lord, and he -strike right out, but he not git much beyond de barn, when he turn and -come back. He walked in de yard of de big house, and he see Missus -Mobley lookin' out at him. He take off his hat and bow low and say: - -"Missus, I so happy to be free, that I forgits myself but I not go 'til -you say so. I not leave you when you needs a hand, 'less de master and -all de white folks gits home to look after you. - -"De missus look down at her feet end she see de black man, so big and -strong, sheddin' tears. She say to him: 'You is a good nigger and you -has suffered much; make yourself at home, just as you have been doin' -and when you want to go far away, come to me and I'll see that you git -'nough money to pay your way to Boston and maybe to Africa.' And that is -what happen' a year or two later. - -"My daddy go 'way to de war 'bout this time, and my mammy and me stay in -our cabin alone. She cry and wonder where he be, if he is well, or he be -killed, and one day we hear he is dead. My mammy, too, pass in a short -time. I was sixteen when Sherman's army come through Fairfield County. I -see them ridin' by for hours, some of them laughin' and many of them has -big balls in their hands, which they throw against de house and it -explode and burn de house. - -"I have always 'spected that am just de way they set de houses when -Columbia was burned in a single night. Some of de houses in Fairfield -was burned, some in Winnsboro, and others in de country, but Columbia -was de only place that was wiped out. As de army pass, we all stand by -de side of de road and cry and ask them not to burn our white folks' -house, and they didn't. - -"I came to Columbia in 1868, and for a time I cooked in one or two of de -hotels, then running in Columbia. About 1878, I was employed as cook in -de home of de late W.A. Clark, and I stayed there, in de servant's -quarters, on de place 'til I became too feeble to continue. - -"It has been one of de big pleasures of my life that I has so many fine -white friends, and so far as I knows, de good will of all de black folks -as well. While workin' at Mr. Clark's home, which stood in a fine grove -of magnolias at the corner of Elmwood Avenue and Park Street I never -thought I should live to see it fade away. But you know it did, since de -big stone mansion was torn away and de Junior High School now stands in -that grove. - -"While there, I think it was about thirty years service, I saw many of -de leading white folks of de city and state, as guests there; they, at -least many of them, still befriend me. De remnants of de Clark family -treat me fine when they see me, and sometimes they drive by to see me. -Of course, I had a pretty nice little roll of money when I got too old -to work reg'larly but it has all been spent since. One day I's thinkin' -'bout it and I recalls de sayin' of my Missus Mobley. She say: 'Money -has wings and it soon fly away.' - -"For de last twelve years now, I has been de guest of Missus Ruth Neal, -a fine Christian woman and a teacher in de public schools. She always -treat me just as though I be her mother. My white friends have not -forgot me to date and they enable me to live, without too much aid from -my present benefactor. Her chillun, all in school now, call me 'Auntie.' -Lookin' over my life it seems to me, I has done de best I could to live -right and I have a hope that when de summons comes my Lord will say: -'Well done, Amie.'" - - - - -Ballam Lyles - - - *Interview with "Uncle" Ballam Lyles (74)* - *Carlisle, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Likker puts de wrong ideas in people's haids. I see dat ever since de -time I shed my shirt tail. When dey gits likker in dem, dey thinks dey -is important as de president. All o' 'em wants to act like millionairs. -And if de truth be known, ain't narry one uv 'em worth killing. Likker -jes' brings 'em down to dat. It'll do anybody like dat. It don't make no -difference how rich dey is nor how white dey is. It'll sho' ruin 'em. -And de niggers, it does dem de same way, 'cept dey don't have as far -down to come as de white folks does. And dat's de reason I ain't got no -use fer no likker. - -"When I was a lil shirt-tail boy, I recollects our soldiers gwine from -house to house wid packs on dere backs. Dey was de awfullest looking -white folks dat us had ever seed. Dat picture still stay right clear in -my mind, even if I is a old man wid everything a growing dim. Dey sot up -a camp at Marse's Bill Oxner's place--dat in Goshen Hill and ain't -nothing much left dar fer you to see now. Dem soldiers never had nothing -in dere packs but a few old rags and maybe a lil keepsake from de women -folks back home what dey loved. Dere hair was dat long and stringy dat -it was all matted around de face and neck. 'Cause in dem days, all de -fine white mens wore beards, kaise dat was de fashion. But dem soldiers' -beards looked wusser dan dere hair. Dere faces carried de awfullest look -what you is ever seed on any man's face. Dere clothes looked wusser dan -any darky's clothes had looked 'fo de war. None o' dem never had no -garments a fittin 'em. Us'd look out and say, 'Yonder comes some mo' o' -dem old lousy soldiers.' - -"Wheeler's soldiers come to Mr. Oxner's place and burnt de crib and tuck -all our corn and jes' wasted it. Den dey tuck our meat and carried on -something scandalous. Dey stayed a day or two and when dey had 'stroyed -everything and scared us all half to death, dey went on somewheres -else." - - - - -Eison Lyles - - - *Interview with Eison Lyles (73)* - *Santuc, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -_REMINISCENCES_ - -"Dey comes slow--dem things you calls recollects, or whatever it is; but -I knows what I is talking about, dat I does. My daddy named Aaron Lyles. -Him and Betsy Lyles was my parents. She come from Virginia. Deir white -folks, de Lyles, brought dem from Virginia to Maybinton, S.C. - -"I was too little to know much of de old war, but jes' can remember -living wid Mr. Alf Wright when de horn blow, saying dat de war was done -over. I thought Jedg'ment Day done come! - -"I soon learn't to put up 'hopper'. Dat was hanging up strong ash wood -and hickory ashes in a bag dat was wet, so dat de lye would drip out in -a box whar soap was made. When de moon got right, de grease was biled -off de bones and put in de lye; den it was cooked up into soap. It was -done on de increase of de moon and only a sassafras stick was used for -stirring. De soap maker stirred from her all de time. When a real hopper -was made, it was in a V shape, wid a trough underneath for de drippings. -Dat is all of de kind of soap folks had in dem hard times. If it was too -strong when you took a bath, de skin would come off. Hard soap was used -for washing, and soft soap for clothes. Another thing we did wid lye, -was to shell corn and put de grains in lye and clean it. When it come -white, we called it 'hominy'. - -"Things slip me sometimes, dat is, dey slips my memb'ance. I reckons dat -old Gordam Mill was run by water, down yonder on Tyger River. Tyger -separates Maybinton from Goshen Hill. Mr. Bill Oxner had de post office, -and he lived up in a big grove whar de squirrels was real tame and loved -to play. - -"When we lived on de old Lyons place I got acquainted wid Mr. Bob Lyons. -His family refuged from Charleston to Maybinton during de war, and dey -stayed dar until he died; den his folks went back to Charleston. I -know'd Mr. Jim Thomas, den. - -"My father went from dat to Herbert's. We had it hard dar. Had so many -ups and downs, and de overseer was hard on us, too. As to age, I ain't -so sho about my right age, but I been old enough to sleep by myself for -a long time. Folks knows me well and I stands well wid dem, and I tries -to stand well wid God. My name was down in de old Lyles Bible, but it -done burn't now. Miss Ellen done dead and ain't none of my set of Lyles -living dat I knows de wharabouts of. I was born over on de Newberry -side, so dey says; but dat don't matter, I knows de Union side jes' as -well. - -"I lived wid Mr. Byars at Herbert's on a big plantation. Oh, Lawdy, I -couldn't remember how many plows dey run down dar. I was gitting big -enough to go to see de gals, and I sho had to walk a fur ways to see -'em. De first buggy in dat country belonged to Mr. Epps Tucker. He had a -net to go on de horse to keep de flies off'n him. Dat's de first horse -wid a net on him to come to Gilliam's Chapel. - -"I run around four or five years for nature and for fun. Had in mind -picking a wife, and I got one dat I like de looks of in about four -years. Us up and married. I know'd Dr. Cofield, Dr. Geo. Douglas, Dr. -Peak Gilliam and men like dat. Things run along all right till de night -of August 31, 1886. Dat night dis old man prayed, 'O Lawd, come down, we -need You. We need You and we need You bad. Ain't no time for chillun's -foolishness, so don't send your Son, Jesus Christ, kaise it's You we -needs. Dat earth sho was shaking everywhars, and things was falling. De -Lawd or something had things by de hand dat night. Next day de Lawd -heard folks prayers and stopped dat earth's gwines on. Of all de ups and -downs, I spec dat was de worst scared I ever was. - -"Atter dat us built St. Luke, and we had logs for seats. We marched -together and sung: 'Let's go down to de water and be baptized. I -promised de Lawd dat I'd be baptized when St. Luke was finished. 'Ligion -is so sweet, 'ligion is so sweet.' - -"Little boys watched us while us was building St. Luke's. Dey would play -in de branch and sing: 'Little boy wouldn't swim, kaise leather tacked -to his shoe'. Den dey would catch hands and jump up and down on de bank -and sing: 'Loop de la--loop de loop de la; Deacon coming out, deacon -coming out.' - -"Den all would run to de shade trees and put on deir clothes. And when -us finished St. Lukes, such a baptizing as us had! All of us marched -down to de pool while we sung: - - Let's go down to de water and be baptized. - 'Ligion is so sweet, I's promised de Lawd I'd be baptized; - 'Ligion is so sweet, and I's promised de Lawd I'd be baptized." - - - - -Moses Lyles - - - *Interview with Moses Lyles, 81 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Moses Lyles lives in the section of Fairfield County that borders on -Broad River. He lives in a two-room house, of the 'saddlebag' type, with -his wife, Carrie, and his daughter, Carita. The home is the ordinary -tenant house of a Negro in the South. Pictures, cut out of the -illustrated Sunday editions of newspapers, are used to decorate the -inside walls of the rooms. There are two windows to each room, which are -closed with plank shutters. The floors are clean and yellowed from much -scouring and sweeping. On the outside is a tiny walk to the house, -bordered on either side by rows of jonquils. And about the yard are -'butter and egg' flowers, that were so much in vogue in slavery times. - -"Yes sir, I was a slave. I b'long to Dr. John J. McMahon, dat is, my -mammy was his cook. My father b'long to Marse Thomas Lyles. Deir -plantations jined and folks could see 'cross de fields from one house to -another. I never hear 'bout any trouble dat was caused by pappy comin' -every so often to see and be wid my mammy. - -"My mistress name Sarah. Her and Marster John was de father and mother -of young Marster John J. McMahon, a lawyer. My old marster and mistress -have two girls, Miss Annie and Miss Lillie, dat was livin' when Marster -die. Just a few weeks after he die, here come young Marse John into a -troubled land, in de last year of de war, '65. What you think of dat? -Niggers 'low dat's what give him de power dat him have. You never hear -'bout dat? Well, they do say, when a male child come after de father's -death, dat male child gwine to be a big man in all sorts of ways. How -was him great? What did him do? Why everything. Widout a daddy and -widout money, him got to be a 'fessor in de college and a lawyer. He -tell de judge what's what in dat very court house over yonder. Git to be -de head of all de teachers in de State and show them how to learn de -chillun. He come back sometimes and show farmers how to farm. Know how -to cure my dog of de mange, show my wife how to cure her chickens dat -had de 'pip', and tell us what to do if ever a cow git sick wid de -hollow horn or de hollow tail. Why, Marse John could count all de stars -in de sky, tell you deir names while settin' on de top rail of de lot -fence at night; git up de nex' mornin', look 'round and say whether it -gonna rain or not, dat day. He not tell by de sky, but just go out, run -his fingers through de grass, and dat grass tell him, somehow, it gonna -rain or it not gonna rain. How him love dat old place, and de Salem -cross road and Monticello. Him was riding high in de saddle of might and -power down dere in Columbia. Him come home and say to me and Carrie: 'I -love dis old place, wid its red hills and gullies, its pine trees, ash -trees, hickory trees and scaly bark trees, de berry weeds and thistles -'bout de barnyard fence and I want to be buried up here, not in -Columbia, so dat de weeds and grasses, dat I walk on when a boy, might -grow over me when I's dead.' Then him say: 'Mose does you know how to -castrate and spay pigs?' I say: 'I does not.' Him say: 'Time for you to -learn.' Us and de hands go out to de lot and wid de guff, guff, guff and -guffin' of de old hogs and de squealin' of de pigs, him take all -patience and learn me spayance and castration. - -"My pappy, as I might have told you, was Henry Lyles and my mammy, Mary -Woodward. My brudders and sisters was John, Henry, Martha, Sallie, Jim, -and de baby of all, Bill. Bill and me is de only ones livin'. - -"One day I was plowin' 'long and a thinkin' a whole lot of foolishness -'bout social 'quality dat was bein' preached to us by de leaders of de -Radical 'Publican party, which I b'longed to. Nigger men lak dat kinda -talk, nigger women didn't lak it so much. They fear dat if nigger man -have a chance to git a white wife, they would have no chance wid de -nigger men. They was sure dat no white man would take a black wife, -'ceptin' it be a poor white trash man and then if they git one of them, -him would beat her and work her harder than in slavery time. - -"When I git to de end of de row, I say: 'Whoa!' I turns my back to de -plowstock, ketches my hands on de handles and say to myself: 'De great -Moses in de Bible have a black wife. What is good 'nough for him is just -too good for me.' Then Carrie flit through my mind, as I see her de last -time in a red pokeberry dyed dress, a singin': 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot, -Jesus Gonna Carry Me Home'. Then I think 'bout dat word 'carry' in de -tune and dat word 'home' in de song and dat word 'me' twist and 'tween -them two words 'carry' and 'home', I says: 'Come 'round here, mule. Dat -sun soon go down; ain't got long here for to stay. You got to eat and -you's got to trot and I's got to ride. You's got to carry me to see -Carrie.' I went dat night and ask her for to be my wife. Her say: 'Dis -is mighty sudden, Mose. When de idea fust come to you?' Then I tell her -and she laugh. What she laugh 'bout? Laugh at de fool things I tell her -and de very joy of de moment. - -"Us marry dat fall and have had nine chillun. Who they? Dere's Henry, -Tozier, Lydia, McGee, Nancy, Tolliver, Bessie, May, and Carita. Carita -name Carrie for her mammy but her loll it 'bout her tongue and change it -to Carita. - -"Old Marse Dr. John McMahon was of de buckra type. Freedom come too -soon. De nigger was de right arm of de buckra class. De buckra was de -horn of plenty for de nigger. Both suffer in consequence of freedom." - - - - -George McAlilley - - - *Interview with George McAlilley, 84 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -George McAlilley lives with his son-in-law, daughter, and small -grandchildren, in a one-room frame house, with a lean-to shed room -annex. The annex has no fireplace, no window, is ten feet by eight feet -in dimension and it is in this pen that George and the two small -children sleep. The house is three miles north of the town of Winnsboro, -set back in a cotton field, 500 yards east of US #21. - -George gathers the firewood from the neighboring woods, picks -blackberries in summer, and assists in the harvesting of cotton from the -fields in September. - -"You think I feeble? Looks is 'ceivin' sometimes. Dere is some stren'th -in me yet. Just set a nice dish of collards, fat back, corn bread, and -buttermilk befo' dis old nigger and you can see what dese old gums can -do wid them. 'Spects I can make 'way wid a plate of fried chicken, too, -quick as de nex' one. If you don't believe it, try me dis day, at dinner -time! - -"I was born in slavery time, on Mr. Jno. S. Douglas's plantation, close -to Little River. I b'long to him. He told me I was born in 1853. Had it -wrote down in a book. When I was birthed, de master set de date down in -a book, wid de name of my pappy, Joe and my mammy, Rachael. Bless de -Lord! They b'long to de same master and live on de same place, in a -teency log house. I 'members it. I sho' does. De roof leaked and us had -a time when it rain. - -"My mistress name Miss Maggie; she was a fine woman. Come from de Boyce -stock, a buckra. I tells you dere was no finer mistress in de land, than -she was. She was good to her little niggers; special, I 'low! I was one -of them. - -"Us had a white overseer, Mr. Erwin. If it hadn't been for my mistress, -'spect he'd a wore de hide off me one time when he ketched me in de -watermelon patch. - -"What kind of work I do? Hoe cotton, pick cotton, pick peas, mind de -cows and keep de calf off at milkin' time. I plowed some de last year of -de war, '65 it was. - -"My marster and mistress was very 'ligious in deir 'suasions. They was -Seceders and 'tended Hew Hope Church. When us went dere, us went up in -de gallery. No piano nor organ was 'lowed in de church them days. I set -up dere many a Sabbath and see Marse Robin Stinson knock his fork on de -bench, hold it to his ear, and h'ist de tune. Then all jine in and let -me tell you it had to be one of de Bible psalms, by de sweet singer of -Israel, and no common glory hallelujah hymn. No sir, they didn't -tolerate deir chillun engagin' in breakin' de Sabbath in dat way! - -"It sorta comes to my mind dat in de summer time after crops was lay by, -us went to hear one of our color expound de word in a brush harbor, nigh -Feasterville. His name was Alfred Moore, de pappy of Isaiah and Phillip -Moore. You sho' knows them two. 'Member us had to git a pass to go to -dat meetin'. Patarollers (patrollers) was dere, and if you didn't have a -pass you got a whippin' and was sent home. Can I tell you some of de -tales dat Isaiah and Phillip Moore used to tell? Yes sir! When you gits -through wid me, I'll tell you one or two. - -"No sir, I never marry durin' slavery time. I was just a boy; wasn't too -young to like de gal's company, though. Marse John was a rich man; had -two plantations. One was de home place and de other de river place, -where de corn, oats, and hay was raised. He had a flock of sheep, too. - -"All of our clothes was made from wool and cotton dat was made right -dere on de plantation. Wool was sheared from de sheep. Cotton was picked -from de field. De cotton was hand-carded, took to de spinnin' wheels, -made into thread, loomed into cloth, sewed into clothes, or knitted into -socks and stockin's. - -"Marster had a hoss-gin and a screw-pit, to git de seed out de cotton -and pack de lint into bales. My brothers was Vince, Bill, Sam, and John. -My sisters was Mary and Liza. - -"Does I recollect de Yankees? I sho' does. They burnt de gin-house and -school house. Took de mules, hosses, chickens, and eggs. Marster was -sharp 'nough to bury de meat in de woods, 'long wid other things they -didn't git. They set de house afire at de last, and rode off. Us put de -fire out and save de mansion for Marse John. - -"I didn't jine de church in slavery time; lak to dance then. Our fiddler -was Buck Manigo, de best fiddler, black or white, in de State, so white -folks say. - -"Ku Klux didn't come 'round our parts. My ma stay on as cook, after -freedom. I stay for $5.00 a month and eat at de kitchen. I was always a -democrat and weared a red shirt in de Hampton parades. - -"I marry Patsy Jenkins. She live twenty years and us had seven chillun. -Did you know, boss, after Patsy dead and buried, I got to be a old fool -'bout women again? Dat I did. De devil put it into dis old gray head to -marry a young gal; Mary Douglas was her name. Joy come dat fust night -and misery popped in de door de very nex' mornin'. Us couldn't 'G' 'bout -nothin'. She, at de last, left me for 'nother man over on de Broad River -side. I's steered my course clear of de women's skirts ever since. I's -now livin' wid my grand-daughter, Irene Wilson, 'bove town. - -"'Bout de tale you want to hear. Well, Preacher Alfred Moore, a colored -slave, search de scripture for names for his chillun. One boy him name -Isaiah and one name Phillip. They both was mighty good slaves of Dr. -Walter Brice, our doctor. My marster and Dr. Price's son, Marse Thomas, -marry sisters and I see a heat of Isaiah and Phillip. Isaiah had a tale -'bout Niggerdemos (Nicodemus) and Phil had a tale 'bout a eunuch. Which -one you want to hear? Both? I's gittin' tired. I'll just tell Isaiah's -tale 'bout Niggerdemos. You has seen de blisters on sycamore trees? I -knows you have. Well, Isaiah 'low they come 'bout in dis way: In de days -of de disciples dere was a small colored man named Niggerdemos -(Nicodemus), dat was a republican and run a eatin' house in Jerusalem. -He done his own cookin' and servin' at de tables. He heard de tramp, -tramp, tramp of de multitude a comin', and he asked: 'What dat goin' on -outside?" They told him de disciples done borrowed a colt and was havin' -a parade over de city. Niggerdemos thought de good Lord would cure him -of de lumbago in his back. Hearin' folks a shoutin', he throwed down his -dish rag, jerked off his apron, and run for to see all dat was gwine on, -but havin' short legs he couldn't see nothing'. A big sycamore tree -stood in de line of de parade, so Niggerdemos climbed up it, goin' high -'nough for to see all. De Savior tell him: 'Come down; we gwine to eat -at your house, Niggerdemos'. Niggerdemos come down so fast, when he hear -dat, he scrape de bark off de tree in many places. Niggerdemos was sho' -cured of de lumbago but sycamores been blistered ever since. Nex' time -you pass a sycamore tree, look how it is blistered. Isaiah is asleep -now, in de white folks graveyard at Concord Church. I's seen his -tombstone. On it is wrote his age and day of his death. B'low dat, is -just dis: 'As good as ever fluttered'. His young Marster Tommie put it -dere." - - - - -Ed McCrorey (Mack) - - - *Interview with Ed McCrorey (Mack), 82 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"Yas sah, I was born in slavery time, on de Lord's Day. I 'members mammy -tellin' me, but just which month, I disremembers dat. De year done gone -out my 'membrance, but I is eight-two. You'll have to help figger dat -year out for me. It was befo' de Yankees come, 'cause I see them then. I -good size chap, I was dat day. - -"My marster was Wateree Jim McCrorey. My mistress name Miss Sara. Sure -she de wife of Marster Jim. Does I recollect de chillun? 'Spect I can -name most of them. Young Marster Bill marry a Miss Harper kin to de old -Jedge Harper. Miss Sara, her marry a Beaty, a buckra, and Marster John -got killed in de war. - -"My father was name Washington, after General George Washington, though -he got nothin' but 'Wash' in de handlin' of his name. My mammy name -Dolly, after de President's wife 'Dolly'. De white folks tell mammy dat -her was name for a very great lady. You ask me why I say father and not -say mother? Well boss, let me see; maybe I regard father, but I loves -mammy. My white folks say father but I learnt on de breast and knees of -mammy to say mammy, and dat's a sweet name to dis old nigger, which and -how I ain't gonna change 'less her changes it when I git to heaven bye -and bye. - -"Marster Jim live on Wateree Creek. Had big plantation and a heap of -slaves. Maybe you knows de place. Marster Troy own it, after de war. De -Yankees never burn up de house. It catch afire from a spark out de -chimney of de house dat Marster Troy was habitatin' then. Yas sah, -Yankees took all they could carry way, but didn't touch de house. -Marster Troy kept a bar and lots of poor white trash continually 'round -dere smokin'. 'Spect some of them no 'count folks caused de fire. - -"Lord bless you! Yas sah, us had plenty to eat and wear; wore shoes in -winter, though they were sorta stiff, de wooden bottoms make them dat -way. Us boys run 'round in our shirt tails in summer time. Us lak dat! - -"What I lak best to eat in them times? 'Lasses and pone bread for -breakfast; roastin' ears, string beans, hog jowls, bread and buttermilk -for dinner; and clabber and blackberry cobbler for supper. Them's good -eatin's I tell you! - -Did I ever git a whippin'? Lordy, Lordy! did I? Once I 'members one -moonlight night 'bout midnight, a gettin' up off my pallet on de floor, -goin' out in de sugar cane patch and gittin' a big stalk of de cane. -When I gits back to our house, young Marster Jim ketch me and say: 'Dat -you Ed?' I'd lak to deny it was me, but dere I was, ketch wid de cane on -me. What could I say? I just say: 'Please Marster Jim, don't tell old -marster, just do wid me what you laks'. He make his face grim and -sentence come from his mouth: 'Ten lashes and privilege of eatin' de -cane, or five lashes and de cane be given de pigs in de pen; lashes -'plied wid a hame string on de bare back and rump'. Dat last word seem -to tickle him and he laugh. Dat brightened me some. 'Which you goin' to -take', say young marster. I say, 'I wants de sugar cane, Marster Jimmy, -but please make de lashes soft as you can'. Then he git stern again, -took me by de hand, lead me to de harness house, got a hame string and -say, 'Now don't you bellow, might wake mother'. Then he give me de ten -lashes and they wasn't soft a-tall. I didn't cry out on de night wind -though. Dat ended it. - -"My white folks 'tended Wateree Church. I never went to church in time -of slavery, though. I now b'longs to de Big Zion African Methodist -Church in Chester, S.C. What I feel lak when I jine? I felt turnt all -'round, new all over. It was lak I never had been, never was, but always -is to be 'til I see Him who clean my heart. Now you is teched on sumpin' -dat I better be quiet 'bout. - -"I marry Emily Watson, sumpin' 'bout her attractive to all men, white -men in particular. After I got four chillun by her, one of de big white -men of de county have a ruction wid his widow-wife and step chillun. -They left him. Emily was a cookin' for him. It wasn't long befo' she -quit comin' home at night. I leaves de place. Emily have four chillun by -dat white man. One of my chillun by Emily, is a street sweeper for de -town of Winnsboro. 'Spect he is fifty years old. Dat was our oldest -child. De second one up and marry a preacher, Rev. Brown. De other two -in New Jersey and they make a heap of money they say, but I never see de -color of dat money. - -"Our neighbors was Gen. Bratton and Capt. Ed. P. Mobley. Both powerful -rich men and just 'bout set de style of polite livin'. Everybody looked -up to General Bratton, expected nothin', got nothin'. Everybody dat come -'round Marster Ed. P. Mobley, expect sumpin' and went away wid sumpin'. - -"After freedom, Marster Ed's son, Marster Mose, marry Miss Minnie -McCrorey; her de mother of Marster Bill Mobley, County Treasurer, -Richland County. She die and Marster Mose take another sister, Miss -Emma. Her son big doctor at Florence, S.C. - -"Does I know any funny stories? Does you want a true story? Yas? Well, -all Marster Ed Mobley's niggers lak to stay wid him after freedom. They -just stay on widout de whippin's. 'Stead of whippin's they just got -cussin's, good ones too. Dere was two old men, Joe Raines and Joe -Murray, dat he was 'ticular fond of. Maybe he more love Joe Raines de -bestest. One day Joe Murray let de cows git away in de corn field. At -dinner time Marster Ed cuss him befo' de whole crowd of hands, layin' -'round befo' dinner; and he cuss him powerful. After dinner Joe Murray -grieve and complain much 'bout it to de crowd. Joe Raines up and allow: -'Next time he cuss you, do lak I do, just cuss him back. Dis is a free -country, yas sah. Just give him as good a cussin' as he gives you'. - -"Not long after dat, de boar hog git out de lot gate, when Joe Murray -was leadin' his mule out. Marster Ed lit out on Joe Murray a cussin' and -Joe Murray lit out on Marster Ed a cussin', and then Marster Ed ketch -Joe and give him a slavery time whippin' and turn him loose. Joe Murray -take his mule on to de field, where he glum wid Joe Raines. Joe Murray -tell 'bout de boar hog gitting out and de cussin's and de whippin's. Joe -Raines allow: 'You didn't cuss him right. You never cuss him lak I cuss -him, or you'd a never got a whippin'.' Joe Murray allow: 'How you cuss -him then, Joe?' Say Joe Raines very slow, 'Well when I cuss Marster Ed, -I goes way down in de bottoms where de corn grow high and got a black -color. I looks east and west and north and south. I see no Marster Ed. -Then I pitches into him and gives him de worst cussin' a man ever give -another man. Then when I goes back to de house, my feelin's is satisfied -from de cussin' I have give him, and he is sure to make up wid me for -Marster Ed don't bear anger in his bosom long. De next time cuss him but -be sure to go way off somewhere so he can't hear you, nigger'. - -"Some time I sorry I's free. I have a hard time now. If it was slavery -time, I'd be better off in my body and easy in my mind. I stays wid my -daughter, Emily. My old marster, Wateree Jim, is de bestest white man I -has ever knowed. My race has never been very good to me. - -"I was too young to work much, just 'tend to de cows, carry water in de -fields, pick up chips, find de turkey and guinea nests. I's never voted -in my life, never been in jail in my life. Seem lak I's just a branch or -pond dryin' up on de road side, and de onliest friend I's got is de -President and dat good old dog of mine. - -"Goodbye and God bless you sir, 'til we meet again." - - - - -Richard Mack - - - *Interview with Richard Mack, 104 years old* - *Rosemont School, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C._ - -Richard Mack, a happy philosopher, 104 years old, in perfect mental and -physical condition, is still working as janitor of the Rosemont school. -He is of the aquiline type, with eyes bright and deep set, and a black -skin with a red light shining through, showing Indian relationship. - -"I was born in Limestone, Va. My first master was Green Bobo. I was sold -when I was ten years old; not really sold, but sold on a paper that said -if he didn't take care of me, I would come back--a paper on me--a kind -of mortgage--speculators bought negroes and sell um. Missis, I never had -a stripe put on me. I had a privilege of being among all people." -(Richard Mack enjoyed every experience of his life and has no root of -bitterness in his nature). "Then I come to South Carolina. My mother, -Jane, she live to be 108; she come to South Carolina too. We got back -together again," (he paused with a bright smile) "Orangeburg, at Captain -Cherry's--Captain Cherry here in Charleston is related to him--Cherry -Plantation is there now; Captain Cherry had plenty of money. - -"Tony was my father, a carriage driver; he wore his tall hat and fine -clothes (livery) and he was a musician--played the violin at the Academy -on the 'old Ninety-Six Road'. All the white people educated their -children there, and they had parties. Oh, the beautifulest ladies--they -wore long dresses then and had long hair--the beautifulest! My -father--Daddy Tony, they call him--he was a musician--always played the -violin." Here he mentioned the names of songs of that day, before the -War of 1861, and repeated these words with much merriment: - - Would have been married forty year ago, - If it hadn't been for Cotton Eye Joe - -"Songs--lots of um-- - - Run nigger, run, de Patrol ketch you - -He roared with laughter--"When de patrol come, I had my badge; I show -him my paper and my badge! I got it still. I love dem days--I love dem -people. - -"My mother was a good woman--she used to get down on her knees, like -this, and get up like this," (he knelt with agility, and rose -unassisted, quickly, and without the least difficulty). "My aunt lived -to be 141; she saw George Washington--she told me so. - -"Cherokee--Kickapoo--I don't remember--my great grandfather was an -Indian Chief--my nose is straight, see here." He went into the pocket of -his overall, brought out a pair of eyeglasses, put them on the end of -his nose, and looked over them. - -"I loved dem days, I loved dem people. We lived better--we had no -money--we had nothing to worry about--just do your task. Spin wheel and -reel and reel for the yarn. I filled my arms full of quilt--hand made. -Had task; I done all my task, and I help others with their task so they -wouldn't get whipped; if people lazy and wont do, they got to be made to -do; if children bad they get whipped--if nigger bad, they get a -whipping. - -"Old Satan wear a big shoe--he got one club foot. He can disguise -himself--he make you think he got power, but he ain't got any power. He -get you in trouble and leave you there. I always pray for wisdom and -understanding like Solomon. I pray all the time to our good Father. -People say--'Why you call him Good Father?'" (Quoted from the Bible) "I -love everybody--'Love thy neighbor as thyself.' - -"Yes Ma'am! Oh Heaven!--we got to be clean--we change out of the flesh -to the spirit; a crown prepared for us; all we save and help are stars -in our crown; you go from Mansion to Mansion--higher--higher." (He -raised his arms with a rapt look) - -Then he was told about "Green Pastures" and asked what he thought of it. -"Why my Lord have Mercy! The Lord is a Spirit--we are changed. - -"I roll the carpet for Missis to get in the carriage; a two-foot carpet -from the house roll to the stoop for the carriage. - -"My mother--yes Ma'am--108 years old--a smart woman in the house. Oh my -Lord, Missis--cook! She wouldn't kill a chicken out of the yard; she had -a coop to put them in, and it was cleaned out every day. My mother would -fix the flowers; she would take this little flower, and that little -flower, and put them together, and make up a beautiful bouquet, and hand -them out to everybody. My father knew all about planting; the people -would come to ask 'Daddy Tony' how to plant this and when to plant that. - -"I heard all the War talk, I saw a comet." (Indicating its position in -the heavens, he seemed inspired, forgot his surroundings, looking back). -"I saw the curtain-cloud--and snow clouds--rolls and rolls. In the War I -was with my master, Capt. Cherry, and Dr. Knox, Captain in the Civil -War, and Capt. Dick McMichael--all those fine gentlemen. They had -hog-skin saddles that creaked--Crench--crench--as they rode;" (He was -enthusiastic) "the way they could ride! Those hosses were as sensible as -people; they could jump from side to side; they knew everything. - -"Capt. Cherry said to me--'Why weren't you white! Why weren't you white! -Why weren't you white!' I lost my old Captain--then I was with Gen. -Frank Bamberg, and with his brother, Capt. Isaac Bamberg--I was Orderly. -Sometimes in the War we had one hardtack a day, and had to drink water -on 'um, to make 'um swell. We had to get out salt out of water, most -anywhere." - -"I saw Gen. Lee many times; I knew him; he had his close beard around -his face; he looked fine and sat his horse so splendid." Mack was asked -the color of the horse, and described the gray. Here he remembered the -battlefield--"I did this"--he enacted silently--dexterously--the placing -of the dead and wounded on the stretchers and bearing them away--worked -so rapidly that his breath was labored. "I made the balloon flight--my -eyes were good--they carried me because any object that I saw, I knew -what it was; a rope ladder led up to the basket--the beautiful thing--we -went up on the other side of Beaufain street; there were no houses there -then, and we came down on the Citadel Green." - -Mack had spoken several times with enthusiasm of the officer's cavalry -'pump sole boots'. After he had polished them, "Capt. Edwards (of -Elloree) gave me a $500.00 bill for cleaning his 'pump sole boots'." -Mack proudly enacted the Captain's jolly but pompous manner, as he gave -the bill, and added, "I had thousands of dollars in Confederate money -when the War broke up. If we had won I would be rich." - -After War period: "The time Capt. Wade Hampton was stumping I followed -him all over the State; I led 500 head; was with him to Camden, -Orangeburg and all the way to Hampton County; led 500 Negroes through -the County; I was Captain of them; I rode 'Nellie Ponsa' and wore my red -jacket and cap and boots; I had a sword too; my 'red shirt' died year -before last." - -Asked if he knew 'Riley', Mack answered promptly--"'Democrat Riley', yes -Ma'am, used to drive that fine carriage, and old Col. Cunningham's -family." Riley was an ex-slave, a tall black man, devoted to the South, -as he was, a Democrat of high principle, and respected by all--hated by -many--a power in himself. - -"I lose all my ancestors. I got a niece, Queenie Brown, in Orangeburg; I -got a daughter in New Jersey; one in New York, married to a Clyde Line -man; lost sight of both; both old. - -"Bless the Lord! I got friends! Mr. Pooser came to see me yesterday; -been in South America four years; just got back and hunt me up right -off! Married Miss Dantzler of Orangeburg--I raised them all"--with a -benign look of love end ownership. - - - - -Jake McLeod - - - *Interview with Jake McLeod, 83 years old* - *Timmonsville, S.C.* - --_Mrs. Lucile Young and H. Grady Davis, Florence, S.C._ - -"You see what color I am. I born in Lynchburg, South Carolina de 13th -day of November, 1854. Born on de McLeod place. Grandparents born on de -McLeod place too. My white folks, dey didn' sell en buy slaves en dat -how-come my grandfather Riley McLeod fell to Frank McLeod en grandmother -fell to de McRaes. My boss give my grandfather to his sister, Carolina, -dat had married de McRae, so dey wouldn' be separated. Dey take dem en -go to Florida en when de Yankees went to Florida, dey hitched up de -teams en offered to bring dem back to South Carolina. Some of my uncles -en aunts come back, but my grandfather en grandmother stayed in Florida -till dey died. - -"De McLeods, dey was good people. Believe in plenty work, eat en wear -all de time, but work us very reasonable. De overseer, he blow horn for -us to go to work at sunrise. Give us task to do en if you didn' do it, -dey put de little thing to you. Dat was a leather lash or some kind of a -whip. Didn' have no whippin post in our neighborhood. I recollect my -boss unmercifully whipped man I thought, but I found out dat it was -reasonable. He (the slave) beat up my uncle (a slave) en my old boss put -it on him. Striped him down en tied him wid buckskin string. Whipped him -till he get tired en come back en whip him more. I looked right on at -it. When he turn him loose, told him to go. See him whip my mother one -time 'cause she whip me. Caught her by de hand en whip her right in de -same field dat she whip me. It was so hot I dig holes en put my foot in -de hole en dat de reason she whip me. Den if he find anyone steal a -thing, he whip dem for dat. - -"Dey didn' have no jails in dem days, but I recollects one woman hanged -on de galleries (gallows). Hang dem up by harness en broke neck for -wrongdoing like killin somebody or tryin to kill. Old woman cookin for -de Scotts, named Peggy, tried to poison de Scotts. Mean to her, she say, -en she put poison in de coffee. My mother walked 'bout 10 miles to see -dat hangin' 'cause dey turn de slaves loose to go to a hangin'. Took her -from de quarter in de wagon en I heard her tell dat de old lady, Peggy, -was sittin on her coffin. My mother say she used to use so much -witchcraft en some one whispered, 'Why don' you do somethin 'bout it?' -She say, 'It too late now.' I hear tell 'bout dem hangin', but I ain' -see none of it. - -"My boss had four slave houses dat was three or four hundred yards from -his house en I reckon he had 'bout 25 slaves. One was pole house wid -brick chimney en two rooms petitioned off en de other three was clay -house. Us had frame bed en slept on shucks en hay mattress. Dey didn' -give us no money but had plenty to eat every day. Give us buttermilk en -sweeten potatoes en meat en corn bread to eat mostly. Catch nigger wid -wheat, dey give him 'wheat'. Den dey let us have a garden en extra -patches of we own dat we work on Saturday evenings. En we catch much -rabbits en fish as us want. Catch pikes en eels en cats. Catch fish wid -hook en line in Lynches river wid Senator E.D. Smith's father. Rev. Bill -Smith de father of E.D. Smith. - -"De white folks, dey had a woman to each place to weave de cloth en make -all us clothes. De women had to weave five cuts a week, one cut a night. -Have reel in de shape of wheel en spokes turn en hold thread en turn en -when it click, it a cut. Any over, keep it to de next week. Dey wore -cotton clothes in de summer en wool clothes in de winter en had more den -one garment too. Had different clothes to wear on Sunday 'cause de -slaves go to de white folks church in dat day en time. Den dey had -shoemaker to come dere en make all de colored peoples shoes. De Durant -shoemaker come to de McLeod plantation en make dey shoes. - -"I tellin you my boss was a good man en he had a big plantation wid six -or seven hundred acres of land, but he didn' have to mind to see 'bout -none of de work. De overseer name Dennis en he was de one to look out -for all de plantation work. He lived on de McLeod place en he was good -man to us. I had to thin cotton en drop peas en corn en I was a half -[HW: hand] two years durin de war. If a whole hand hoes one acre, den a -half hand hoes half a acre. Dat what a half hand is. Waited on de -wounded de last year of de war. - -"Wheat, peas, corn en cotton was de things dat peoples plant mostly in -dem days. Dis how I see dem frail de wheat out. Put pole in hard land en -drive horse in circle en let dem stamp it out. You could ride or walk. -Two horses tramp en shake it out en den take straws en have somethin to -catch it in en wind it out. Had to pick en thrash a bushel of peas a -day. - -"When corn haulin time come, every plantation haul corn en put in circle -in front of de barn. Have two piles en point two captains. Dey take -sides en give corn shuckin like dat. Shuck corn en throw in front of -door en sometimes shuck corn all night. After dey get through wid all de -shuckin, give big supper en march all round old Massa's kitchen en -house. Have tin pans, buckets en canes for music en dance in front of de -house in de road. Go to another place en help dem shuck corn de next -time en so on dat way. - -"My old Miss en Massa, dey always look after dey slaves when dey get -sick. Use herbs for dey medicine. I used to know different herbs my -mother would get. Boneset en life-everlastin make teas for fever en -colds. When I was a boy, dey used to carry dem what have smallpox by de -swamp en built a dirt house for dem. Kept dem dere en somebody carried -feed to dem. People used to have holes in dey skin wid dat thing en most -of dem died. - -"I hear tell 'bout one man runnin away from Black Creek en gwine to Free -State. Catch ride wid people dat used to travel to Charleston haulin -cotton en things. He come back 'bout 15 years after de war en lived in -dat place join to me. Come back wid barrels en boxes of old second hand -clothes en accumulated right smart here. Talk good deal 'bout how he -associated wid de whites. Don' know how-come he run away, but dey didn' -catch up wid him till it was too late. De community have man den call -pataroller en dey business was to catch dem dat run away. Say like you -be authorized to look after my place, you catch dem dat slipped off to -another man place. Couldn' leave off plantation to go to another place -widout you ask for a pass en have it on you. White folks used to kill -beef what dey call club beef. If you kill beef this week, you send this -one en that one a piece till de beef all gone. White folks give me pass -en tell me carry beef en deliver it. Next time, another man send us -beef. - -"I run away one time en somehow another de overseer know whe' I was. I -recollects old Miss had me tied to de tester bedstead en she whip me -till de whip broke. I see her gettin another arm 'bout full en I tear -loose en run away. I slip home on steps at my mother's house lookin down -playin wid de cat en look up in her face. She say, 'You good for nothin, -you get out of here en get to dat barn en help dem shuck corn.' I go but -I didn' go in 'cause I keep a watch on her. Another time boss had a -horse apple tree dat just had one apple on it en he wanted to save dat -apple till it get ripe enough for seed en fall. White man, I couldn' -stand it. I eat dat apple. He put it on me dat time 'cause he saw my -tracks en dat how he knew it was me. He know it was me en I couldn' get -out of it. - -"I get married in '76. My old boss, we all went gether. Red Shirt -canvassed the country. People tried to get me to quit my wife 'cause dey -say de Democrats would bring back slavery. Some voted 8 or 10 tickets. I -was on de stand when Hampton spoke in Sumter. Chamberlain was elected on -de Republican ticket. Sam Lee one of de men. He was white. I believe he -was colored. Wade Hampton have him brought on de stand en ask questions. -Ask what kind of Government it gwine be. Dey had tissue tickets en -blindfolded man en he didn' take out tissue tickets. Name en number on -de ticket. - -"All I know 'bout de war dat bring freedom was dat de war was gwine on. -I remember when dey couldn' get coffee, sugar or nothin like dat. You -know dat was a tough time to think 'bout we couldn' get no salt. Cut up -potatoes en parch to make coffee. Sweetened wid syrup en fore de war -closed, made sugar from sugar cane. Boil dirt out de smoke house en put -liquor in food. Eat poke berry for greens. Den one day we hear gun fire -in Charleston en Miss made miration. I don' remember freedom, but I know -when we signed de contract, de Yankees give us to understand dat we was -free as our Massa was. Couldn' write, just had to touch de pin. Ask us -what name we wanted to go in. We work on den for one third de crop de -first year wid de boss furnishing everything. Soon as got little ahead -went to share-cropping. - -"I tell you it been a pretty hard time to be up against. I own dis here -place en my nephew live here wid me. Dey give him government job wid de -understandin he help me. Get $24.00 a month en live off dat. Daughters -in New York pay tax. If dey carry out de President's plan, it be a good -one. It been pretty tough in some instance. God sent thing. I tell you -it a good thing. If carried out like de President want it carried out, -it be better den slavery time. You know some slaves got along mighty bad -'cause most of de white people won' like our white folks. - -"I belongs to de Methodist church en I believe it de right thing. Man -ought to do as God arranged it 'cause he plan it. We know right from -wrong." - - - - -Bill McNeil - - - *Interview with Bill McNeil, 82 years old* - *Ridgeway, S.C.* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"In December 1855, de family Bible say, I was born on de McNeil Place in -York County. De last person who have dat Bible was Captain Conductor -True of de Southern Railroad trains. Had dis one name in dat Bible, just -'Bill' is set down on de page. I hear them say de Good Book am now in -Tennessee, but I wouldn't swear to dat. I was born 'bout twelve miles -from Chester Court House on a creek called Bullock or something lak dat. - -"My pappy name Will; my mammy name Leah. I was put down in de Book as -their child. When Miss Jane, daughter of old Marster McNeil, (I forgits -his first name) marry, then my new marster was Marster Jim True. Miss -Jane just up and marry Marster Jim and come wid him to Fairfield. Then -old Marster McNeil give me, my mammy, and brother Eli, to Miss Jane. - -"My pappy done passed out, ceased to live, befo' us come to Fairfield. -Him b'long to de Rainey family of York. Had to git a pass to see his -wife and chillun. Dat was one of de hard parts of slavery, I thinks. -Does I 'members Conductor True's name? Sho, I does. It was Thurston -True. When I git on de train him always slap me on de head and say: -'Well Bill, how your corporosity seem to sagasherate dis morning?' And I -say: 'Very galopshous, I thanks you, Captain'. Then us both laugh, and -he pass on down de coach and all de people on dat car 'steem me very -highly. I feel a little bigger than all de other niggers, all dat day -long, I sho does. - -"Does you know de Warren Castles' Place? 'Bout two miles from dere is -where us lived befo' freedom. Marster Jim True was killed in de war. Us -carry on then and make corn for de 'federate army. Our house had a dirt -floor and a stick and mud chimney. Us slept on a pallet on de floor. In -de summer time I run 'round in my shirt tail. - -"De overseer, Tom True, de daddy of Marster Jim was a rough and hard -task marster. After freedom I went to de Rembert Place, Wateree Creek, -then to de DesPortes' Place five miles from Winnsboro, then to de Jordan -Place on de Gum Tree Road, then to de Buchanan Place, then I buy seventy -acres from Mr. Jim Curlee and live there every since 1905. My wife was -there wid me and my daughter and her four chillun, Willie, Anne, Andy -and Henrietta Jackson. - -"I got a heap of whippin's in slavery time from old Marster Tom True. I -see lots of de Yankees and their doings in war time. They just ride -high, burn and take off everything from us, lak they did everywhere -else. - -"I vote de 'publican ticket, as I try to show my 'preciation, and dat -gits me in bad wid de Klu Klux. They scare me, but no touch me. De red -shirts try to 'suade me to vote their way. Some of de best white folks -was in dat movement, but this time I 'members old Tom True beating me -often for little or nothing. I sticks out to de end wid de party dat -freed me. - -"I find out, and you'll find out, boss, dat only de Lord is pure in de -beginning and to de end, in His plans. De works of man and parties lak -democrat and 'publican have their day; if they reign long enough de -people will mourn so de Bible say. - -"My old overseer, Marster Tom was a school teacher. I feel sorry for de -chillun he teached, 'cause him whip me just when him git out of sorts. -Miss Jane couldn't stop him, she just cry. - -"Yas sir, I have knowed good white men. Mr. Warren Castles was a good -man, and Manigault here in town is fit to go to heaven, when he die. I -sure dat he is, although he is a nigger. - -"My house and land worth $590.00, but I been going back'ards every year -for last eight years. Can't get labor, can't work myself. Wonder if you -white folks will help me get a pension. I's not going to beg. Dats my -last word." - - - - -Andy Marion - - - *Interview with Andy Marion, 92 years* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"Yes, sir, I was born befo' de war 'tween de white folks, on account of -us niggers. They was powerful concerned 'bout it and we was not. My -mammy always said she found me a babe in de chinkapin bushes, but you -can leave dat out if you want to. They say I comed into de world in -1844. I sho' was a good plow-hand when de first gun was fired at some -place down near Charleston; I think it was at Sumter. They say I was -born where Marster Eugene Mobley lives now, but it b'longed to Marster -William Brice, when I was born in 1844, bless God! My father named Aleck -and my mother Mary. Us colored folks didn't git names 'til after de war. -I took my name, when I went up to de 'lection box first time to vote for -Gen. Grant for president. My father was from old Virginia, my mother -from South Carolina. Our plantation had seventy-two slaves living about -here and yon in log houses wid dirt floors. They bored auger holes in de -sides of de room, stuck end of poles in dese holes. De pole reach' out -into de room and rested on wooden blocks sort of hollowed out on top; -then some slats of pine finish up de contraption bed. Quilts was spread -on dis which was all de bed we had. - -"I been married four times since de war and I'm here to tell you dat a -nigger had a hell of a time gittin' a wife durin' slavery. If you didn't -see one on de place to suit you and chances was you didn't suit them, -why what could you do? Couldn't spring up, grab a mule and ride to de -next plantation widout a written pass. S'pose you gits your marster's -consent to go? Look here, de gal's marster got to consent, de gal got to -consent, de gal's daddy got to consent, de gal's mammy got to consent. -It was a hell of a way! - -"I helped my marster 'mong de bullets out along de Mississippi River, -but I's glad we didn't whip them 'cause I's had four wives and dere is -de las' one settin' right over dere, a fixin' you some strawberries and -a shakin' her belly at me laughin' lak Sarah in de Bible and thinkin' of -namin' de child of her old age, 'Isaac'. - -"What kind of work I do in slavery? I was de carriage driver. Us had a -fine carriage and two high-steppin' horses, Frank and Charlie. I used to -hear lots of things from behin' me, while drivin' de folks and saying -nothin'. Money, did you say? We had no use for money. Kind words from de -white folks was money 'nough for me. We just worked hard, eat more and -slep' well. We got meat, hominy, and corn meal on Mondays and wheat -bread, lard and 'lasses on Saturdays. No time for fishin' or huntin'. -Married slaves was encouraged to have their own gardens. Our clothes was -of wool in de winter from our own sheep, and cotton in de summer from -our own fields. Had many spinnin' wheels and cards. Miss Mary, de -mistress, saw to dis part. - -"Our white folks was Psalm-singin', old style Presbyterians. You -daresn't whistle a hymn on Sunday which they called Sabbath. Just as -soon as I got free, I jined de Baptist church, hard shell. Brother -Wright is my preacher at Blackstock now. My marster, William Brice, his -wife, Miss Mary, his son, Christie, and his daughters, Miss Lizzie, Miss -Kitty and Miss Mary, was de ones I drove de carriage to Hopewell church -on Sunday for. Dat church is flourishin' now. De pastor of dat church, -Rev. John White, befo' he died I waited on him sixteen years, and in his -will, he give me dis house and forty acres around it for my life. Dat's -what I calls religion. My mistress was a angel, good, and big hearted. I -lay my head in her lap many a time. Marster had a overseer twice. They -was poor white trash, not as good as de niggers. Miss Mary run them both -off and told marster what she couldn't see to when he was away, she'd -pick out one of de slaves to see after. All de overseer done was to wake -us up, see to feeding stock and act biggity. Us slaves worked from sun -up to sun down. - -"Sometime befo' de war, my marster sold out and bought a big place in -Mississippi. On de way dere, de slaves (grown) was chained together. Yes -sir, de chain was 'round de necks. We went by wagons and steamboats -sometimes. We stayed in Mississippi 'til durin' de war we refugeed back -to South Carolina. Dat's when de Yankees got possession of de river. We -settled near New Hope church. It was in dis church dat I saw sprinkling -wid a kind a brush when baptizin' de chillun. Over at Hopewell, you had -to have a brass trinket (token) to show befo' you could take Communion -of de Saints. We was always compelled to go to church. Boss like for de -slaves to sing while workin'. We had a jack-leg slave preacher who'd -hist de tunes. Some was spirituals; my wife and me will sing you one -now, 'Got to Fight de Devil when You Come Up out de Water'." (This was -well rendered by the old man and his wife). "Nothing stopped for slave -funerals. De truth is, I can't 'member any dyin' on our places. None of -our slaves ever run away. - -"A pass was lak dis, on it was yo' name, what house you goin' to and de -hour expected back. If you was cotched any other house, pataroller whip -you sho'. Always give us Chris'mus Day. Dere was a number of dances dis -time of de year. Got passes to different plantations. Dere would be corn -shuckin' different places. Not much games or playin' in our set. Wife, -let's sing another spiritual. Come on Janie, let's sing 'You Got to Lay -Your Burden 'pon de Lord'. - -"Sickness of slaves was quickly 'tended to by de doctor. 'Member -gallopin' for old Doctor Douglas many a time. - -"I went to de war from Mississippi as body guard for my marstar. I was -close to de fightin' and see it. If it was hell then, it must be -tarnation now wid all dese air-planes flyin' roun' droppin' booms on old -people lak Janie and me, over dere fixin' them strawberries. De good -Lord, save us from a war over Blackstock and my garden out dere! - -"I was free three years befo' I knowed it. Worked along just de same. -One day we was in de field on Mr. Chris Brice's place. Men come along on -big, black horse, tail platted and tied wid a red ribbon. Stopped, waved -his hands and shouted 'You is free, all of you. Go anywhere you wants -to'. Us quit right then and acted de fool. We ought to have gone to de -white folks 'bout it. What did de Yankees do when they come? They tied -me up by my two thumbs, try to make me tell where I hided de money and -gold watch and silver, but I swore I didn't know. Did I hide it? Yes, so -good it was two years befo' I could find it again. I put everything in a -keg, went into de woods, spaded the dirt by a pine stump, put de keg in, -covered it up wid leaves and left it. Sometime after, we looked for it, -but couldn't find it. Two years later, I had a mule and cart in de -woods. De mule's foot sunk down into de old stump hole and dere was de -keg, de money, de silver and de watch. Marster was mighty glad dat I was -a faithful servant, and not a liar and a thief lak he thought I was. My -marstar was not a Ku Klux. They killed some obstreppary (obstreperous) -niggers in them times. - -"I first married Sara Halsey in 1875, she had three chillun. She died. -Ten months after, I took Harriett Daniels; she had three chillun, then -she died. Eight months after, I married Millie Gladden, no chillun. She -lived seventeen years, died, and ten years ago I fooled dat good-lookin' -Jane a-settin' over dere. She was a widow then, she was de widow Arthur. -She was a Caldwell, when she was born. We have no chillun but she is -still lookin' for a blessin'." (Here the nonagenarian broke forth in a -quiet chuckle). - -"There wasn't as much sin in slavery time, not as much sufferin', not as -much sickness and eye-sore poverty. Dere was no peniten'try and chain -gangs 'cause dere was no need for them. Cuttin' out de brutishness on -some places, it was a good thing for de race." - - - - -Milton Marshall - - - *Interview with Milton Marshall, (82)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live in Newberry County, a few miles from town on Mr. Alan -Johnstone's place. I rent and make a fair living. I have ten children -now living and two dead. Dey is all on a farm. I was born in Union -County, jes' across de Newberry line, near de Goshen Hill section. I was -young when we moved to Newberry and I have lived dar nearly all my life. -My father, Ned Worthy, was a slave of Frank Bynum's mother. My mother -was Maria Worthy who was a slave of Mr. Burton Maybin. She cooked for a -long time for de Maybin family. - -"I was small in slavery time, and played wid de white chaps. We used to -go wid Mr. Burt Maybin to see dem muster at de old Goshen Hill muster -ground. - -"Marse Burt Maybin owned 88 slaves, and I was one, and is de only one -now living. We had no money in slavery time, jes' got food and clothes -for our work; but my marster was a good feeder, always had enough to -eat. Some of de marsters didn't give niggers much to eat, and dey had to -slip off and steal. We had plenty of what was de rule for eating in dem -days. We had home-made molasses, peas, cornbread and home raised meat -sometimes. We killed rabbits and 'possums to eat, and sometimes went -fishing and hunting. Marse wouldn't allow fishing and hunting on -Sundays, but de chaps would slip off on Sundays sometimes and catch lots -of fish. - -"Our clothes was made at home, spun and wove by de women folks and made -by dem. Copper straw and white cloth was used. Our shoes was made by a -shoe-maker in de neighborhood who was named Liles. Dey was made wid -wooden soles or bottoms. Dey tanned de leather or had it tanned in de -neighborhood. It was tacked around de soles. It was raw-hide leather, -and de shoes had to be soaked in warm water and greased wid tallow or -meat skin so de shoes would slip on de feet. - -"I married Missouri Rice at her own house. We had a big wedding and she -wore a white dress wid two frills on it. I wore a dove-colored suit and -a high brim hat wid a small crown. I bought de hat for $7.00 jes' to -marry in, but used it for Sundays. - -"We had good white neighbors in slavery time. My marster and mistress -was all right. All of us had to go to work at daylight and work till -dark. Dey whipped us a little and dey was strict about some things. - -"Us chaps did not learn to read and write, dat is why I can't read and -write today. Marse wouldn't allow us to learn. Once he saw me and some -other chaps, white chaps, under a tree playing wid letter blocks. Dey -had de ABC's on dem. Marse got awful mad and got off his horse and -whipped me good. - -"De niggers didn't have a church on de plantation but was made to go to -de white folks church and set in back of de church. Dey had to git a -pass to go to church same as any other place, or de patrollers would -catch 'em and beat 'em. - -"Atter de war was over de niggers built brush arbors for to hold -meetings in. I sho' remember de old brush arbor and de glorious times -den, and how de niggers used to sing and pray and shout. I am a Baptist -and we baptised in de creek atter we dammed it up to hold water deep -enough. Sometimes we used a waterhole in de woods. I remember one old -Baptist song, it went: - - Down to de water I be baptised, for my Savior die; - Down to de water, de River of Jordan, - Where my Savior baptised. - -"Some of de slaves was whipped while dey was tied to a stock. My marster -was all right, but awful strict about two things, stealing and telling a -lie. He sho' whipped dem if dey was caught in dem things. Some marsters -didn't feed de slaves much, but my marster always had enough. Every -Sunday he would give each nigger a quart of flour extra for breakfast. - -"We had to work all day Saturdays, but Marse wouldn't let anybody work -on Sunday. Sometimes he would give de women part of Saturday afternoons -so dey could wash. He wouldn't allow fishing and hunting on Sundays -either, unless it looked like rain and de fodder in de field had to be -brought in. He always give us Christmas Day off, and we had lots of good -eats den. - -"I remember de old corn-shuckings, cotton-pickings and log-rollings. He -would ask all de neighbors' hands in and dey would come by crowds. I can -remember dem good. I remember de grain was put in drains and de horses -was made to tramp on it to git de seed out. Den it was put in a house -and poured in a big wooden fan machine which fanned out de chaff. De -machine was turned by two men. Dey made molasses by taking de cane and -squeezing out de juice in a big wooden machine. De machines now is -different. Dey is made of cast. - -"A stage dat was drawn by two horses went past our place. It carried -mail and people. When Marse wanted to send word to any people in de -neighborhood he sent it by somebody on a horse. - -"Many of de slaves, and some old white people, too, thought dar was -witches in dem days. Dey believed a witch could ride you and stop blood -circulation. - -"Dar was many dogs on de farms, mostly hounds and bird dogs. - -"My grandfather was called 'Jack', and he was a nigger-driver. Dat was a -nigger dat had to oversee de slaves when de marster was away from home. -He would call de cows like dis, 'Su--wee, Su-wee' or 'Sook, Sook'. He -called his dogs by whistling. He had several dogs. When grandpa died and -was buried, his dogs would git out and bark and trail jes' like trailing -a rabbit, and de trail always led to de graveyard. Dar dey would stand -by his grave and howl for a long time, wid deir heads up in de air. - -"De old folks made medicines from root herbs and tree barks. Herb tea -was made to keep away fevers. Marse always called his big chaps up to de -house in de mornings and made dem drink chinaberry tea to keep worms -from gitting in dem. - -"When freedom come, de slaves was notified dat a white man by de name -Ban White would come to de plantation and make a speech to dem. He said, -'Now dat you is free, you will be wid your marster, and he is willing to -give you 1/3 of what you make. You is free, and dar will be no more -whippings.' Den Marse said, while he was crying, 'You stay on wid me and -I'll give you food and clothes and 1/3 of what you make. - -"Atter de war, de Ku Klux did bad in our neighborhood. Dey killed five -or six niggers. I guess it was 'cause dey was Republicans and had -trouble at voting times. - -"I never did think slavery was right. I was jes' a chap den and never -thought much about it till long since it was over. De carpetbaggers dat -come to our place tried to make me believe dat de white man was our -enemy, but I found out better. I am a Democrat and always was one. I was -40 years old when I repented of my sins and jined de church. I wanted to -jine and be baptized and be saved." - - - - -Charlie Meadow - - - *Interview with Charlie Meadow (83)* - *Rt. 2, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"It bees so hot today dat I jes' setting here on de bank steps a-waiting -fer Aaron to come. Aaron work out on de road yonder in front of Dr. -S'ratt's house. De heat, it still come up out'n dis granite rock like -dar was a fire under it somewhars. It feel good to me kaise my blood -thin and I has on de thinnest clothes dat I's got, today. Sho' did git -dis hot in slavery, but us never had to tramp 'round on no pavement and -rock steps like dese. Us tromped on de ground and it take up a lot of -heat. - -"In dem days, Union had trees along dis Main street like dem dat grows -on de forest now, (Forest Creek). Mister, dey never called dis street -Main when I was little, dey called it Virgin. It was real narrow and de -trees recht plumb over de street in de middle 'till de limbs touched -over your head. Here whar we's setting was de opera house. Right dar -whar I's a pinting my finger was a stone hitching post, and along dis -side de street was whar de surreys driv up fer de folks to git out and -go in de do' to de Opera. - -"I don't want to see no picture shows; ain't never seed none of dem -things afo' dey got to talking. It's de devil hisself and dat's all it -is. Now dey says dat dey talks in de pictures. Well, dem dat wants to -can go and pay dere hard earned money to see sech as dat, but Charlie -ain't gwine narry a step. No, if you is got any money to give me, I take -it; but I ain't gwine to no picture whar de devil hisself bees in de -dark. Dat's how come dey has it dark, and dat's what I 'lows to my -grandchilluns but dey is ig'nant and laughs at me. It ain't no good to -all sech as dat anyway. I likes to go to picnics and barbecues fer my -enjoyment. Befo' my legs give out, I cotch fish and killed birds and -went to log rollings and corn-shuckings. Dem things give you something -to recall. Dese chilluns comes from de picture show and den dey does not -have nothing to recall, kaise dey has to go agin de very next Sad'day. -Tain't no merits to no sech as dey does. - -"Slavery, us wore thin home-made clothes and dey sho' was better dan -what I has now, kaise us made dem on de home looms and spinning wheel, -and dey was good. Cloth ain't no count, kaise it ain't made good in no -mills like dat what us made at home in de time of slavery. 'Course I was -too little to make dem, myself, but it was done at home 'till atter I -got big enough to card and spin. Ain't never seed no garments as strong -as dem we wore back dar. Every thing was made out of plaited cotton and -it lasted fer years and years. Winter time, we wore all wool clothes, -and when you furs' changed in de fall, how dey did scratch! Make a -feller feel like he had de itch. Marster had enough sheep to give his -folks wool, and den some fer all de darkies. I's 'bout ten years old -when I could card and spin good, and dat was atter de war. - -"I live down dar on de Forest (creek) in 'Patterac'. My house ain't fer -from McBeth School. De mail box in Mr. Charlie Ray's yard, 'bout fo' -miles from Patterac. I walks fer dat mail, dat ain't fer. Not long ago I -walked to Union and dat twelve miles. At dat you see I doesn't consider -fo' miles fer. - -"And Marse Johnny Meadow was my Marse when I was five years old. From -den on, I 'members fer myself and I does not have to take what old folks -say, but as you knows, from dar back it is as I is heard it. - -"Yankee Carpetbagger or something come 'round and 'lowed to our -overseers dat us have to come to Union Courthouse on a certain day. Us -went in all de wagons. From de winding stairs, a man say, 'you is free; -you is free; you is free as your marsters is.' Grandma Julie grab me and -say, 'Boy, you is free; you is free; clap your hands.' Dat never meant -much to me and atter us got in de wagon to go home, grandma 'low dat she -sorry she so free and footloose. Next day us went to work as usual. Some -strange folks and trashy niggers and po' white folks dat ain't never had -nothing, would come to see us and tell us to stop work, but dat never -meant nothing to us. Us all stayed on and gathered de crops. - -"Next year maw and her maw went to de Mabry Thomas plantation in Santuc -to work fer a fourth. My pa stayed at de Meadow plantation. I went wid -my maw, but I also stayed wid my pa and his ma some. Atter dat, when -ma's maw died she went back to pa and dey worked fer a fourth; and de -older boys hired to de big house fer wages. I come up to manhood and I -been down dar on de Patterac ever since. I live near Charlie Giles, and -dey done tuck his picture kaise he so old and wise. - -"Paw name in full, Griffin George Meadow, and ma's is Alice Brice -Meadow. She brought from de state of Delaware, and pa was brought from -de state of Virginny. I's heard both say dat dere parents was brung all -de way from Africa. Mr. Bonny Trippling fetched both my ma and pa to -South Carolina atter dey was married. I 'member my grand-daddy, my ma's -daddy. He was furs' George Brice; then Marse Meadow bought him and he -was George Meadow. - -"My grandpa went to Mississippi on his own expenses atter de Confederate -War and took his wife wid him. Her name was Mahala; and her two girls, -Sara and Jane, and two sons, Henry and George, went along. Dey went on a -little train. It was new here den, and dey say dat it was de first train -dat ever went through de state of Mississippi. De first train dat I ever -saw, was de one on de Southern Railroad, from Spartanburg to Union. It -run to Columbia den, and my first ride was from Santuc to Union. I set -betwist my daddy's legs on de train and dat de best ride dat I ever had -and I'll never forget it. It was de fastes' thing dat had ever gone -through dis country. When it started off, I hollored as I was so scared. -Atter it got its speed, I thought de woods was leaving me and I held -tight to my daddy's knees, couldn't hardly get my breath. It didn't take -any time to get to Union, fact, befo' I got used to it we was at de -station and my daddy told me dat we had to get off. When we got off I -could get my breath again, but I felt funny all de rest of de day. - -"I has a brother, Luke, dat lives near Lockhart, S.C., and another -brother, Jimmie, lives in New York. Dat is all dat I has living. - -"All de darkies on de plantation lived a good life. De ladies had me to -pick up trash for de stove and fireplaces in de winter time. Marse Bee -was Miss Lizzie and Marse John's son. All de time I stayed 'round de -kitchen and got water and eat from de kitchen and had a good time until -Marse and Missus died. Dey give me plenty of food, clothes, a good house -and good clean bed. We made our bed clothes on de home looms wid wool -from our marster's sheep. De barns was always full and so was de -smokehouse. - -"For our summer clothes we plaited de hanks to make a mixtry of colors. -De winter clothes was heavy, drab and plain. Our dyes was made from bark -skinned from de maple trees. Dis was mixed with copperas for a pretty -yellow. Green dye was bought from a store in Union, and de filling for -de garments was also store-bought. I carded and spun and wove a many a -day. - -"We slept on straw ticks in summer, made from de wheat, and on feather -beds in winter. De quilts was warm and made from many pretty home-made -patterns. Lightwood knots give de only light at night. 'Puff' from flint -rock give de first sparks. A piece of old iron or hard rock was used to -strike de sparks wid, don't know why it was called 'puff'. Fire was kept -in de kitchen hearth all de year as a usual thing. - -"De overseer would 'hoop us up every morning, but we didn't work late at -night. We went to de white folks' church at Harden's Ferry near de old -Jeter graveyard. Church and ferry gone now. We also went to Sunday -school. Every two or three afternoons in summer, Marster and Missus call -us all on de kitchen porch and read de Bible and pray and tell us 'bout -our Sunday school lesson. In winter we went in de kitchen where I built -a big fire, to hear de Bible read. We was Methodist. My favorite -preacher was a big black African named Williams who come to preach in de -darky church for us every now and den. Dat was Jeter Chapel. - -"First time dat I went to a baptizing was to see it at de white folks' -church, Kelly Chapel. I went wid my ma and pa to see Mr. Cain and some -Jones baptized. A box-pool had been built in de branch about half a mile -from de church. De people draped in white was taken to dis pool and -dipped, although it was a Methodist church. Sheets was hung up for a -dressing-room. When dey come out of de pool dey dressed in regular -clothes. It was warm weather and lots of folks had to be baptized and a -lot of people was dere to see it done. - -"Some years later, I went to see some darkies baptized for the first -time. I had to walk a long ways. I don't go to church much now because -my legs don't 'low me to walk to church." - - - - -Albert Means - - - *Interview with Albert Means (91)* - *Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -_OLD CUSTOMS_ - -"Sho' wuz' born in '46, das' whut my white folks says. I calls myself -97, but dat' don't make no'diffunt, 'bout a few years. I lives near -Monarch, on whut's still called the Ben Brandon place. Mr. Ben had a -sister, Mis' Polly. Deys' de aunt and uncle to Mis' Emma Brandon. Mr. -Ben had two overseers, Mr. Caleb and Mr. Neal Willard, deys' both -Willards. Yes suh' dey' sho' wuz'. Bofe wuz very kind mens. - -"Marse' Ben nebber' 'low' much whippin', and he wuz as good a man as -anybody has ever seed'. But one day us nigger' boys hopped into a fight. -Marse' Ben done his own whippin' den'. And dats' de onliest' time dat' I -is ever knowed' of anybody on all dem' plantations to be whipped. - -"Marse Ben had a small house. Didn't nobody live dar' but him and his -sister. Den' she up and went to Kennedy's on de Meansville road. Dat' -place wuz' called in Dem' days 'Cedar Grove'. T'ain't much dar' now. - -"I'se named Albert, 'case my pa belong to Marse Albert Means. I wuz -always a field-hand. Marse Ben let me eat from his table after his -sister went to 'Cedar Grove', kaze' wad'n nobody dar' in the house wid' -him. 'Cindy' Brandon wuz de woman dat' cooked for us. My mother always -belonged to de' Brandons, and my pa never 'longed to nobody but Marse -Albert Means. My Marster' had only one body slave whose name was Keith. -He was born, lived and died and was buried on the plantation. Marse Ben -also had a cousin whose name was Marse Keith. When he died he gave all -his slaves to Marse' Ben, and this is how Keith became my Masters' body -slave. All Marse Ben had he left to his young neice Miss Emma Brandon, -and to his cousins Miss Hettie, and Miss Mary Emma Foster. - -"On Sunday we get the best things to eat of any day in the week. -Sometimes we were allowed to go to church with our white folks at old -Brown's Creek. We sit in the gallery. Dey' don't have none at all now. -'Cindy' go to church too. When 'Cindy' go to church us never had much to -eat. All de' slaves is buried in de' Brandon's Graveyard and dere's a -place fer me beside my first wife. Oh! Lord yes I got my second wife and -she's a young gal', but she doos' whut I wants her to. My furs' wife -belonged to Marse Jim Ellis. De' preacher on the Ellis plantation -married me to Jane Ellis. Dem' wuz good times, 'caze' Marse had us -plenty to eat, good clothes to wear, and he gave us a new log house to -live in. - -"Captain Foster got de' two Brandon places. He owned the Will Beaty -Place and 'Cedar Grove'. He never owned slaves. - -"Me and Jane cooked in our fireplace. It had a big crane fer' de' pot to -hang on. We had a covered skillet to bake in, and a frying skillet. Us -never cooked on Sunday, but made pones on Saturday. We made our Yeast of -meal and hop-vine." - - - - -Andrew Means - - - *Interview with Uncle Andrew Means, age 80* - *Route #4; Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Andrew Means, when approached, held a baby in his arms and moved very -slowly around in his front yard. He was asked if the babe was his -grandchild or his great-grandchild, as the old darky had previously -stated his age as eighty. He replied that it was his own and he pointed -out another child playing in the yard whom he said was his also. He -stated, "I'se been married twice. I had fifteen children by my first -wife, and these two are by my second wife. She is a young woman. But -I'se sick now, 'cause I had two strokes of paralysis and I can't do -much". - -He remembered some things during slavery times. His mother belonged to -Dock Murph's father. "I don't recollect his name", he said: "but I was -born on a plantation down about White Stone on Mr. Murph's place". He -stated his mother lived in a two-room log house with board floors. "My -mother and my father separated, and he got killed in Florida. One day my -father came there to take me with him, but I wouldn't go. I stayed with -my mammy. She was a hoshand, and used to do washing around the house; -she did some cooking, too. She used to pick cotton. We raised plenty of -cotton; made good crops." - -He said "I wonder what has become of the wild duck and the wild geese we -used to have? I used to see them coming over de house, stretched out one -right behind the other. There was plenty of duck and geese, but you -don't see 'em now." - -When questioned further about slavery times, he said, "I was so little, -too little to work. I was playing marbles and pitching horse shoes. One -day I looked up and I seed soldiers running their horses down the road -in my direction and I got scared. They had on blue hats, or caps, but I -don't recollect what kind of clothes they had on, but I remember the -blue caps with a stiff front to it. No, Sir, they didn't do nothing at -the house. Some of dem asked for something to eat, but when we didn't -have anything to eat they couldn't get it, so rode on. I was so scared -and my heart was beating so when I seed 'em coming I just lit out on a -run." (At this point he laughed heartily to himself.) "I ran so hard and -was so scared I run over and knocked down two railings on de fence, den -I crawled under de bed." - -When asked how the darkies got married in those days, he said: "They had -to do the best they could. People didn't get married at that time like -they do now." - -He said he had heard of some of the slaves getting whippings, but he had -a good master; he never saw a nigger get a whipping. "But I heard of it -on some places". - -He never went to white folks' church when he got big enough to go to -church, but the first church he went to was a colored church. - -"No, Sir, I never seed a ghost, but one night when me and another fellow -was going 'possum hunting, I saw something, but I don't know what it -was. De dogs treed a 'possum and laid down at de foot of the tree and -just barked. Torectly something flew down out of the top of de tree and -fought de dogs. It just tore them into shoe-strings--their ears and -sides was all torn to shoe-strings. Some of de dogs didn't get back 'til -next morning and they was all cut up. When dat thing came out de tree I -left there. We didn't stay. It looked bigger than a bear. Maybe it was a -ghost. - -"The 'paterollers' didn't give us much trouble as long as we had a -pass." - -He stated he had never heard of Abe Lincoln or Jeff Davis but he -recollected when Garfield was President. - -When he was passed a little change, he said, "Thank you, Sir; come -again, come to see me again." - - - - -Jason Miller - - - *Interview with Jason Miller* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -_STORY OF HIS GRANDMOTHER'S PRAYER_ - -Jason Miller, a dark-colored Negro 77 years old, lives on a farm five -and a half miles from Eastover, S.C., and claims that he is a grandson -of Nancy Williams, whose prayer saved a ship at sea. - -"My daddy was Thomas Miller and my mammy was Bernice Williams Miller, de -youngest daughter of Nancy Williams. I was born in Orangeburg County in -1860, on de farm where we lived at dat time. My mammy die when I was -'bout turnin' into 16 years old and my daddy never marry no more. - -"He owns 'bout 15 acres and de house we lives in and he rent more land -close to us. We 'most always has plenty to eat and wear, 'cause we works -de land and keeps it fit to produce food and money crops. When my daddy -got too old to work much, me and my wife and our two chillun was livin' -wid him. - -"He never turn over de home nor de lands to me while he was livin' and I -follow right in his tracks. I owns a house and 31 acres and my son and -his wife and two chillun live wid me. My wife die nigh on to 15 years -ago, but I is still single and right glad of it. I now owns de farm and -is still boss dere. I has a reason for not turnin' them over while I -lives. - -"I has seen many cases, where de head of de house turn over all his -belongin's to de son who move in. In most of dese cases, de head of de -house become no more pow'ful than a child and often when he give it all -out, he get sent to de poorhouse, to boot. - -"So I still holds de whuphand for keepin' de peace and countin' one, -besides. Tom does most of de sowin', plowin', and reapin'. I still makes -a hand, choppin' or pickin' cotton and I digs de 'taters, too. And when -it come to sellin', why I cracks de whup, 'stead of bein' on de beggin' -side at home. - -"Yes, sah, my daddy was a slave and I was born a slave. My grandmammy, -Nancy Williams, was set plum free by her Marster Williams at Charleston, -when she was just a little gal, lak. She still stay wid dis fine -seagoin' family, and dat's why she was a stewardess on de ship, where -Marster Williams was de captain. - -"De ship was makin' de return trip from Wilmington, N.C. to Charleston, -S.C. in 1847, when de big storm break on de sea. De biggest story 'bout -what happen am told by Senator A.P. Butler, who was a passenger. My wife -tell me, too. She say Senator Butler always look up and speak to my -grandmammy when he come to Charleston and she say de Senator give -grandmammy money, widout her askin' for it. - -"My grandmammy sho' was known to white and black folks at Charleston and -Wilmington as a Christian woman. She talk and pray for de seamen at both -ports and when she livin' in Charleston, too old to serve de ship -longer, de sailors often come to see her and fetch her presents of -candy, coffee, flour, sugar, blankets and such as they thought she need. -When she die, my wife say de sailors carry de coffin to de grave and -weep. - -"As de storm tale come to me from my wife, who git it from her mammy, -Nancy Williams, it 'bout lak dis: De ship carry folks and produce from -Charleston to Wilmington and git a load of folks and produce at -Wilmington, for Charleston. 'Bout 100 miles south of Wilmington a big -storm rage, lightin' flash and de waves roll mountain high. De ship -wobble, first on one end and then on de other, a squeakin' awful. Pretty -soon de fires wetted out and it was out of man control. But it still -pitchin' pow'ful. - -"Knowin' all dis, Marster Williams summon all on deck and tell them de -ship am doomed. Then he say to them: 'All you standin' side by each, git -'quainted, so if anybody git to land, they can tell what become of us!' - -"It was then dat my grandmammy, de stewardess, step fo'ward and say: -'Marster Williams, dis am no time to git 'quainted! What we all better -do is to kneel down and pray.' - -"'I can't pray,' say Marster Williams. 'If you can pray, Stewardess, go -ahead!' - -"All de passengers and crew was standin' dere silent and tremblin'. -Grandmammy fall on her knees and pray: 'Oh, God! We, thy erring chillun -can do nothin'. You can do ever'thing. Save us, if it be Thy will but -Thy will be done, not ours! Amen!' - -"Then she rise up and smile sweet lak and 'bout dat time de light from a -rescue ship, sent out from Wilmington to aid us, grandmammy say, shine -in on us. All was saved. Many, white and black, sho' say grandmammy's -prayer saved de ship and also say she am de only one who keep cool all -de time. Senator Butler, who was a passenger, talk wid me once 'bout it. -Long after he talk wid me, we git a book from Edgefield, in which -Senator Butler tell de story, praising my grandmammy. We has that book -at home now and no money could buy it." - - - - -Lucinda Miller - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Lucinda Miller* - *637 Cummings St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Calling on an ex-slave who was visiting at a neighbor' house, the writer -was surprised. She came out of the house briskly and jumped down the -front steps and came to greet the writer with a smile on her face. -"Aunt" Lucinda Miller stated she was between 10 and 11 years of age -"when she was sot free". That would make her about 82 years old now. She -was born in slavery, her mother being bought by Mat Alexander, who lived -about five miles from Hill's factory on the Main Tyger River, for $900. -Her father, who was a Linder, was owned by Bob Alexander, a brother of -Mat. He lived two or three plantations away. She stated that Bob -Alexander was known as a good master, but Mat was mean and cruel. She -has seen her mother "whooped" by the latter either with a buggy or wagon -trace, a piece of leather or anything her master could get his hands -upon. She said that she had never seen any slaves in chains, but her -master would whip the grown slaves, but never the small children. Her -work was light farm work, and working around the house. She would bring -water, wash the dishes, help make up the beds and such other work she -could required in the house. She says her master was a hard driver for -work to his slaves; that she knew nothing but work. When her master -thought that a slave was not working hard enough, he would whip him to -make him work much harder. All he thought of was work--work in cotton, -corn, peas, wheat, oats or whatever he raised. When asked about the -games she and the other children played, she replied that she didn't -have a chance to play, for there was something for her to do all the -time. She also said that Mat Alexander used to make his slaves work at -night and on Sundays. When the day's work was over, he would come to -their one-room log house and lock them up until next morning. He would -also lock up the well so they could have no drinking water during the -night. She had plenty to eat, such as it was, but flour was given to -them once a week, also a little meat, some molasses and corn meal. They -never had any sugar, and only got coffee when her father would bring it -to her mother. The white folks and the negroes ate from the same garden. -The slaves could not have a garden of their own. They also went to the -same church, but none of the white folks taught the slaves anything -about reading. She said that she saw "a pair of niggers" get married on -the plantation by a white preacher. There were no negro preachers. -Patrollers did not bother any of the four or five slave families on the -Alexander place, for Mat Alexander was his own patroller. Patrollers -from one plantation had nothing to do with the negroes from another -plantation, as they could not even come on the other plantation unless -they had permission. When going to church, the slaves had to have passes -to attend church services. - -When asked how the Yankee soldiers behaved when they came by the farm, -she said, "a whole pastle of them came by the house one day. They asked -the Missus if she had any white bread and some honey." Upon being told -that she didn't have any of either, they asked for water. Aunt Lucinda -was told to bring them a bucket. She drew the water from the well and, -after filling it, she placed it on her head to carry it. The captain of -the soldiers told her he could not drink the water from the bucket on -her head, so made her place it on a stand. Then after the captain drank, -the rest did also. They then came on into the yard and went to the -stable, took a mule and rode it off, without saying anything. The missus -had heard what the soldiers would do when they came to a farm, so all -the valuables had been hidden. The horses were driven way back into the -woods, the food stuff and clothing was hidden about the place. She said -her mother was a good weaver and used to make lots of good clothes and -quilts, but all this was put into a hole and covered up with dirt to -keep the soldiers from taking it. Aunt Lucinda said the soldiers did not -tarry there long after looking about for horses and such, and soon left. -The only thing they got was the mule that was in the stable. When all -the slaves were told by their master that they were free, they all -wanted to get away from him, but stayed until the planted crops were -harvested; then went to another place. Her father took her mother and -his five children to live with him on another farm where they stayed for -fourteen years. When they left, the Missus gave them 10 bushels of corn, -3 gallons of molasses etc. That was all her mother received for staying -on after emancipation. Aunt Lucinda stated that she was known as Lucinda -Alexander while a slave; then took her father's name until she was -married, when she became a Miller. Her father used to hunt rabbits and -opossums and bring them to his wife, her mother. She said that wild -turkeys were plentiful, as she had often seen them flying around in the -woods at the lower edge of the farm. She didn't know how many acres were -in the farm, but the master worked 6 horses. She remembers that Mat -Alexander was very mean, and would not get a doctor to a sick slave -until he dropped in the fields. They had to work even if they were sick. - - - - -Cureton Milling - - - *Interview with Cureton Milling, 80 years old* - *Winnsboro, S.C.* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"I live about ten miles from dis town on de Jim Turner place; though he -dead they still calls it de Jim Turner place. My pappy name Jeff, mammy -name Dolly. Dat a lovely name in dis old mind yit, please God. -Gran'mammy Peggy another good name I's got to recommen' to you, boss. - -"Yes, us all b'longs to de same marster, Levi Bolicks. Guess you'd heard -tell of dat man. Mistress named Martha, angel of light tied up to de -prince of darkness, so it was. They had one child, Little Miss, who -growed up and married a Stevenson. - -"I was just a little shrimp durin' slavery time; tote water and ride -behin' in de buggy to hold marster's hoss when he gits out. My mammy -live in a one-room house; it had no flo' but de one de Lord create in de -beginnin', de natural born earth, it was. - -"What they give us to eat? Us got plenty, sich as it was. Marster Levi -kept his niggers fat, just like he keep his hogs and hosses fat, he did. -He had a passel of slaves and as his plantation was small he just run -four plows, kept a ridin' hoss and a single buggy, and raise slaves to -sell. - -"He was sellin' de oldest ones away from de younger ones, all time goin' -along, 'pears to me. Sometime I think he was de very old Nick turned -loose in de earth for a season. - -"How I explainin' dat? It's dis way: He take 'vantage of de young gal -slaves. 'You go yonder and shell corn in de crib,' he say to one of -them. He's de marster so she have to go. Then he send de others to work -some other place, then he go to de crib. He did dis to my very aunt and -she had a mulatto boy dat took his name and live right in dis town after -freedom. Marster was doin' dis devilment all de time and gwine to -Presbyterian Church at Salem every Sunday; dat make it look worse to me. - -"Outside dis, and sellin' and partin' mothers and chillun, him was a -pretty good slave marster. He marry Miss Martha Clark and had nice -pretty home. He give us good clothes. Shoes? De shoes was made on de -place; they had wooden bottoms, no spring to them. He gave us one day -durin' Christmas, for a dance. Us had Doctor Martin to 'tend us. He was -son-in-law to old Captain Stitt, another bad man that give trouble just -like my marster. - -"What about de Yankees? Two come first, and rode up to de kitchen, rode -right up to de steps and say: 'Where de silver? Where de gold rings and -jewelry you got hid for de white folks? Tell us or us'll beat you worse -than you ever get beat from de lash of de patrollers.' They was as good -as they words; they gets down and grab us and make us tell all us know. - -"Where old marster? He done burnt de wind in his buggy wid de very -things de Yankees asked for and refugeed somewhere away, sah. Did he go -to war, my old marster? No sirree! He wasn't dat kind; him hire a -substitute. - -"After de war was over, freedom come, and with it de excitement of white -folks comin' down here and havin' us believe us just as good as white -folks. I have lived to see it was all a mistake. Then come de Ku Klux -and scared some sense into my color. Then come Hampton and de Red -Shirts. Had they a black shirt I don't believe niggers would ever have -took to it. 'Dog for bread, nigger for red', they likes dat color. - -"In them days of parades by day and torch light processions by night, -when de niggers was asked to jine, offered a hoss to ride, knowed dere -would be a drink of red-eye on de way, and then was handed one of them -red shirts. What you 'spect dat nigger to do? I knowed. He's gwine to -put on dat red shirt, dat red-eye gwine give him over to de democrats, -and dis was de way dat Hampton was 'lected. But it never would have done -to have a black shirt, no sir; I's sure of dat. Dat would have had no -'peal to our color. They is too black already to suit de most of them. - -"When Hampton was 'lected I git an idea of settlin' down. I picks de -plumpest woman I could find and her had a name dat seem music then to -me. It was Roxanna. She allow I was a handsome man, and I was fool -enough then to believe her. But one day she brung home a ten-cent -lookin' glass from Winnsboro. I say to her when I takes a look in it, -'Who dis I see in here?' She says 'Dat's you, honey.' I say: 'No, Roxie, -it can't be me. Looks like one of them apes or monkeys I see in John -Robinson's circus parade last November.' Dere's been a disapp'intment -'bout my looks ever since, and when my wife die I never marry again. - -"All our boys are dead 'cept Laurens. He live in Charlotte, and I got a -sister dat marry Ike Austin and live on de Aiken place. I piddles along -wid de white folks and live in a little house by myself, waitin' for God -to call me home." - - - - -Abbey Mishow - - - *Interview with Abbey Mishow* - *9 Rose Lane, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Jessie A. Butler, Charleston, S.C._ - -Among the few ex-slaves still living, irrespective of their age at the -close of the War Between the States, the line is still very closely -drawn between house servants and their children, and the field hands. -Old white-haired Abbey Mishow has "misplaced de paper" telling her age -but though she claims to have been very small when the war broke out she -still maintains the dignity of a descendant of a house servant, nor will -she permit her listeners to forget this fact for an instant. - -When the writer called on her, unexpectedly, for an interview, she found -Abbey, her house, and grandchildren very clean and neat. There was none -of the musty, stale odor about the place common to Negro dwellings. - -"I don't remember much 'bout de plantation," said Abbey, "'cept dat dey -called it Waterford, and dey planted rice. You see I been jest uh leetle -gal; I can't lie and say I remember. I been jest 'bout so high." She -indicated about the size of a five or six year old child. "I ain't had -no reason for study 'bout um and 'press it on my mind. My mudder died -w'en I was almost uh baby; she was de tailor and seamstress for our -people. De missus promise my ma to tek care of me, and she sho' did. I -was raise just like a pet. De fust crack out of me dat window sash gwine -to heist to find out what ail me. I hardly miss my ma, no mudder -couldn't treat me better dan I treat. - -"We been b'long to Miss (Mrs.) Reese Ford, what live at Waterford -plantation, on the Black River," (Georgetown County) Abbey stated. As -she mentioned the name of the old "missus," and enumerated the names of -her erstwhile owners, Miss Sarah, Miss Clara, Miss Henney, Mr. Willie -and Mr. Reesey, Abbey's old, wrinkled, black face softened with memories -and her voice became gentle as she told of the care and kindness she had -received. - -"I don't know nothing 'bout de war", she continued. "I was purtected, -and tek to de city. I didn't hab nothing to bodder my mind and mek me -remember dose days. Mr. Willie lose he arm in de war. I is see de -soldiers but I been tek care of. I been spoiled and didn't hab no -interest in worryment. - -"I don't know nothing about de street on de plantation, and what dey do -dere, 'cause I ain't had no 'casion for go dere. I raise in de yard, I -didn't wear de kind ob clothes de field-hand chillen wear, and I get my -dinner from de kitchen. I don't know nothing 'bout crops 'cause we -summered." (The family spent the summers at Plantersville, a resort -frequented by the planters of the day) "You see I been leetle, dey -didn't 'low me out de yard, I jest tek notes 'round sometimes. I tell -you I bin spoiled, I raise onderneat' Miss Clara dem (and them). I -nebber had no idea t'ings would ebber be like dis. I ain't got no man, -and no boy, nor no kinnery to help me, nor to do nothing for me, only -one weak daughter and she ain't much good. All de nation dead, t'ain't -nobody left but me. - -"Is I ebber see a ghost? No ma'am, I is hear 'bout dem but I nebber see -um. I ain't had 'casion to go out in de night time. I hear Plat-Eye dere -but only dem what has to trabble round see um. I believe in my Jesus, -yes ma'am, if it ain't been for Him how I lib?" - - - - -Sam Mitchell - - - *Interview with Sam Mitchell, age 87* - --_Mrs. Chlotilde R. Martin, Beaufort County_ - -"W'en war come, I been minding cow for my master. My father been Moses -Mitchell and my mother been Tyra Mitchell. We belong to John Chaplin and -lib on Woodlawn plantation on Ladies Island. Mr. Chaplin had seven -plantation. He lib at Brickyaa'd plantation in winter and in Beaufort in -summer. He hab many slave, but I don't know how many. As near as I can -remember, dey been fifteen slave on Woodlawn plantation. - -"De slave lib on de Street, each cabin had two room. De Master don't gib -you nutting for yo' house--you hab to git dat de best way you can. In -our house was bed, table and bench to sit on. My father mek dem. My -mother had fourteen chillen--us sleep on floor. - -"Eb'ry Chuesday, de Master gib each slave a peck ob corn. W'en potato -dug, we git potato. Two time in de year we git six yaa'd ob cloth, -calico in spring and homespun in de winter. Once a year we git shoe. De -slave had 'bout two task ob land to cultivate for se'f in w'at call -Nigger field. Could raise one pig. - -"All my mother chillen dead 'cept me and one sister Rhina, who lib wid -me. She 80 year old. - -"My father hab a boat and he gone fishing at night and sell fish. Master -let him cut post and wood at night and sell, too. He had to do dis work -at night 'cause in daytime he have to do his task. He was carpenter, but -w'en dey was no carpentry work to do on de plantation, he plow. My -mudder hoe. Little boy and old man mind cow. Little girl and old 'ooman -mind baby. - -"On Woodlawn dey was no overseer. We had nigger driver. Maussa didn't -'low mucher whipping, but slave had to do task. If didn't, den he git -whipping. Driver do whipping, but if he whip too sewerely, Maussa would -sometime tek field hand and mek him driver and put driver in field. - -"If a slave was sick, Maussa would come and see w'at was de matter. -Sometimes he would give de slave jollip to mek him womit (vomit), -sometimes if he had fever, he would gib him hippo. If he was sick, the -Master would tek him to Beaufort to de doctor. If a 'ooman slave sick, -Big Missis would go and see dem. - -"Slave had only one holiday in de year. Dat Christmas day. Maussa would -kill a cow on every plantation on Christmas and gib all de slave some. - -"On Maussa John Chaplin plantation slave have to tell him soon as dey -begin to co't. If Maussa say 'No, you can't marry dat gal', den dat -settle it, you can't marry um. He don't lak his slave to marry slave on -nodder puson plantation, but if you do den you hab pass to wisit yo' -wife. W'en slave marry, w'ite preacher marry um in de Maussa house, but -Maussa don't gib you anyt'ing. - -"Slave had dey own chu'ch on plantation wid nigger preacher, but on -'munion Sunday, you had to go to w'ite folks chu'ch in Beaufort and sit -up stair. - -"Dey wasn't no jailhouse on de plantation, but dey was a barn w'ere -sometimes Maussa put slave w'en dey been bad. I never saw any slaves -sold, but I hear tell of de banjo table. - -"W'en slave die, Maussa let me berry um in de daytime, 'do some Maussa -mek dem wait 'till night time. Nigger preacher preach funeral. - -"I staa't for mind cow w'en I been nine year old. W'en I been twelve, I -have for staa't wuk in field or cutting maash (marsh) or splitting rail. -Slave chillen play mud-pie, mek house out ob sand and secher t'ing. - -"Slave on Maussa plantation could come to Beaufort on Sattidy night, but -dey have to be back by 9 o'clock or patrol would get um. - -"Maussa had nine chillen, six boy been in Rebel army. Dat Wednesday in -November w'en gun fust shoot to Bay Pint (Point) I t'ought it been -t'under rolling, but dey ain't no cloud. My mother say, 'son, dat ain't -no t'under, dat Yankee come to gib you Freedom.' I been so glad, I jump -up and down and run. My father been splitting rail and Maussa come from -Beaufort in de carriage and tear by him yelling for de driver. He told -de driver to git his eight-oar boat name Tarrify and carry him to -Charleston. My father he run to his house and tell my mother w'at Maussa -say. My mother say, 'You ain't gonna row no boat to Charleston, you go -out dat back door and keep a-going. So my father he did so and w'en dey -git 'nuf nigger to row boat and Maussa and his family go right away to -Charleston. - -"After Freedom come everybody do as he please. De Yankee open school for -nigger and teacher lib in Maussa house to Brickyaa'd. My father git job -as carpenter wid Yankee and buy ten acre ob land on Ladies Island. - -"I been married two time. My last wife, Florence, living right here in -Beaufort, but she left me long time ago. I hab two chillen, one daughter -live to Philadelphy and de odder lib on Ladies Island. I got four -grand-chillen, all ob dem grown. - -"Did I ebber hear ob Abraham Lincoln? I got his history right here in my -house. He was de president of de United States that freed four million -slave. He come to Beaufort befo' de war and et dinner to Col. Paul -Hamilton house at de Oaks. He left his gold-headed walking cane dere and -ain't nobody know de president of de United States been to Beaufort -'till he write back and tell um to look behind de door and send um his -gold-headed walking cane. - -"Jefferson Davis? He been de Democrack president. - -"Booker T. Washington? He wasn't no president, but he was a great man. I -hear him speak once in de cemetery in Beaufort. - -"What do I t'ink ob slavery? I t'ink slavery is jest a murdering of de -people. I t'ink Freedom been a great gift. I lak my Maussa and I guess -he was as good to his slave as he could be, but I ruther (rather) be -free." - - - - -Charity Moore - - - *Interview with Charity Moore, 75 years* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -One quarter of a mile north of Woodward station and one hundred yards -east of US #21, is the beautiful residence of Mr. T.W. Brice. In the -back yard is a two-room frame house. In this house lives Charity Moore -and another aged Negro woman, said to be an octogenarian. They occupy -the house together and exist on the goodness and charity of Mr. Brice. -Charity was born a slave of Mr. Brice's father and has lived all her -days in his immediate family. - -"Don't you 'member my pa, Isaiah Moore? Course you does! He was de Uncle -Remus of all de white chillun 'round dese parts. He sho' was! I seen him -a settin' wid you, Marse Johnnie, Marse Boyce, and Dickie Brice, in de -back yard many a time. You all was askin' him questions 'bout de tale he -was a tellin' and him shakin' his sides a laughin'. He telled all them -tales 'bout de fox and de rabbit, de squirrel, brer tarrapin, and sich -lak, long befo' they come out in a book. He sho' did! - -"My ma name Nancy, dat was pa's wedded wife. Dere was no bigamous nor -concubine business goin' on wid us. My brothers was Dave, Solomon, -Fortune, Charlie, and Brice. My sisters was Haley, Fannie, Sarah, -Frances, Mary, and Margaret. Hold your writin' dere a minute. Dere was -thirteen. O yes, I left out Teeta. Dat rounds them up, a baker's dozen, -Marse Thomas use to 'low. - -"White folks, my pa had Bible tales he never told de white chillun. Did -you know dat my pa know de catechism from cover to cover, and from de -back end to de startin' end? Concord Church gived him a Bible for -answering every question in the catechism. Here 'tis. (Producing -catechism published and dated 1840). My pa maybe never telled you any -Bible tales he told de colored chillun. He 'low dat de fust man, Adam, -was a black man. Eve was ginger cake color, wid long black hair down to -her ankles. Dat Adam had just one worriment in de garden and dat was his -kinky hair. Eve hate to see him sad, 'cause her love her husband as all -wives ought to do, if they don't. - -"Well, Adam play wid Eve's hair; run his fingers through it and sigh. -Eve couldn't do dat wid his kinky hair. De debbil set up in de plum -bushes and took notice of de trouble goin' on. Every day Eve's hair -growed longer and longer. Adam git sadder and sadder. De debbil in de -plum bushes git gladder and gladder. Dere come a day dat Adam 'scused -hisself from promenadin' in 'mong de flower beds wid his arms 'round -Eve, a holding up her hair. De debbil took de shape of a serpent, glided -after Eve, and stole up and twisted hisself up into dat hair far enough -to whisper in one of them pretty ears: 'Somebody's got something for to -tell you, dat will make Adam glad and like hisself agin! Keep your ears -open all day long.' Then de serpent distangled hisself, drapped to de -ground, and skeedaddled to de red apple tree, close by de fountain. He -knowed dat Eve was gwine dere to bathe. He beat her dere, 'cause she was -walkin' sorta slow, grievin' 'bout Adam and thinkin' 'bout how to cheer -him up. When she got dere, de old debbil done changed from a snake to a -angel of light, a male angel, I reckon. He took off his silk beaver hat, -flourished his gold headed cane, and 'low: 'Good mornin'! Lovely day! -What a beautiful apple, just in your reach too, ahem'! Eve say: 'I's not -been introduced,' 'Well', said de debbil, 'My subjects call me Prince, -'cause I's de Prince of light. My given name is Lucifer. I's at your -service, dear lady.' Eve 'flected: 'A prince, he'll be a king some day.' -Then de debbil say: 'Of course, one of your beauty will one day be a -queen. I seen a sadness on your lovely face as you come 'long. What -might be your worry?' Eve told him and he 'low: 'Just git Adam to eat -one bite out dat apple 'bove your head and in a night his hair will grow -as long, be as black, and as straight as your'n.' She 'low: 'Us ain't -'lowed to eat of de fruit of de tree in de midst of de garden. Us dare -not tech it, lest us die.' Then Satan stepped a distance dis way, then -another way and come back and say: 'Gracious lady! Dis tree not in de -midst of de garden. De one in de midst is dat crabapple tree over -yonder. Of course de good Lord didn't want you to eat crabapples.' De -debbil done got her all mixed up. De apple looked so good, she reached -up, and quick as you can say 'Jack Robinson,' she bite de apple and run -to Adam wid de rest of it and say: 'Husband eat quick and your hair will -be as long, as black, and straight as mine, in de mornin'.' While he was -eatin' it, and takin' de last swallow of de apple, he was 'minded of de -disobedience and choked twice. Ever since then, a man have a 'Adam's -Apple' to 'mind him of de sin of disobedience. Twasn't long befo' de -Lord come alookin' for them. Adam got so scared his face turned white, -right then, and next mornin' he was a white man wid long hair but worse -off than when he was a nigger. Dere was more to dat tale but I -disremember it now. - -"I's livin' wid my young marster, Thomas, now. He took good care of my -pa, when he got so old and feeble he couldn't work no more. God'll bless -Marse Tommie for all his goodness. When Pa Isaiah come to die, Marse -Tommie come every day. One day in leavin', he said in his gruff, kind -way: 'Is dere anything I can do for you Uncle Isaiah?' Pa say: 'Take -care of Charity.' 'I will,' say Marse Tommie. Then he 'low: 'Ain't dere -something else?' 'Yes,' pa 'low, 'I want a white stone over de head of -my grave.' 'What must I put on de stone,' asked Marse Tommie? 'Just my -name and age,' said pa. 'Oh yes, dere ought to be something else,' says -Marse Tommie. Pa shook his head. 'I want something else on it Uncle -Isaiah,' said Marse Tommie. Wid a tear and a smile, pa raised his white -head and said: 'You can put down, below de name and age, just dis: 'As -good as ever fluttered.' And dat stone at Concord Cemetery 'tract more -'tention then any stone and epitaph in dat churchyard. Why, de white -folks puts flowers on it sometimes. - -"I wonder sometime in de winter nights, as de north wind blows 'bout de -cracks in de house, if pa is warm and in Abraham's bosom. But I knows -pa; he's 'umble. There's so many white folks in dat bosom he'll just be -content to lie in Isaac's bosom or maybe de prophet Isaiah's, for who he -was named. - -"Wait dere! You have bad luck to leave by dat door. You comed in by dis -door and you just leave by de same door. Some folks say nothin' to dat -but I don't want you to risk dat. Glad you come. Good bye." - - - - -Sena Moore - - - *Interview with Sena Moore, 83 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Sena Moore lives alone, in a one-room frame house about five miles -northeast of Winnsboro, S.C. She does seasonal work, such as hoeing and -picking cotton, of which she is still fully capable. She pays $2.00 per -month rent, for the house and vegetable garden spot. - -"Sumpin' tell me to make haste and come here for to see you. How's you -dis mornin'? Mustn't forgit my manners, though I's wantin' to tell you -de ifs and hows and de ups and downs of dese many years dat I's been in -dis land of sorrow and tribulation. - -"I was born in 1854, on de Gladney plantation. Was a pretty smart gal, -twelve years old, when de Yankees come through. Marse Riley have a Bible -out yonder at Jackson Creek dat show's I's eighty-three years old. His -aunty is a sister to my old marster, Jim Gladney. Miss Margaret married -a Paul but Miss Nancy and Miss Mary Ann, them two never marry, bless -God! De house out dere in Jackson Creek neighborhood. - -"My pappy was George Stitt. My mammy was Phillis Gladney. My pappy was a -slave of de Stitt family; had to git a pass to come to see mammy. He -slipped in and out 'nough of times to have four chillun. Then de Stitts -took a notion to sell him to Arkansas. My mammy weep 'bout dat but what -could her do? Just nothin'. Old marster 'low: 'Plenty more good fish in -de sea, Phillis. Look 'round, set your cap, and maybe you'll 'tract one -dat'll give your heart comfort, bye and bye'. My full brudders was -Luther Stitt, Bill Stitt, and Levi Stitt. My mammy then take up wid a no -'count nigger name Bill James and had one child, a boy, name Jim. He -died long time ago. - -"Us live in a log house wid a dirt floor and de cracks stop up wid mud. -It had a wooden chimney. De beds was saplin' pole beds. De ticks was -wheat straw, though most of de time us chillun sleep on de floor. My -marster not a big buckra; he just had a handful of slaves. Us had to -fight chinches, fleas, and skeeters (mosquitoes) 'most all night or 'til -they fill theyselves wid our blood. Then they take a rest and us git a -rest and slept. My grandpappy was one of de free niggers. Him was a -Stitt family nigger, a blue-eyed nigger. - -"Money? Lord help me, no! As I 'member, us had plenty to eat, sich as -peas, beans, greens, lye hominy, and 'lasses but no flour bread. - -"My young marster, Sam, was kilt in de war but Marse Tom went off and -settle in Arkansas. - -"What clothes us have? Just 'nough to hide our secret parts in summer. A -shirt for de boys and a slip-over for de gals. They was made out of -weave cloth, dat us spin of de cotton dat us picked out of de field. Wid -all de drawbacks, us was happy more then than now. - -"Us raise our own chickens and sing while us workin'. I never mind white -chillun callin' me 'nigger'. Dat was a nickname they call me. - -"Us was Presbyterians and b'long to de Jackson Creek Church, Lebanon. -Gallery was all 'round de up-stairs. Got a whippin' for goin' to sleep -up dere, one Sunday, and snorin'. In them days de preacher was powerful. -De folks mighty 'ticular when him come 'round and fill de back of his -buggy wid sumpin' of everything on de place, lak ham, chickens, eggs, -butter, marmalade, jelly, 'lasses, sugar, vegetables and fruit. Him put -in full time on Sunday though, preach 'bout two hours befo' he put on de -benediction. - -"What 'bout my courtin' days? Well, I had them, too. A Yankee want me to -go off wid him but I tell him no! Then when I 'fuse him, him 'suade -another gal to love him and leave wid him. Her come back to de place six -months later and had a baby by dat scamp man. - -"When I was fifteen, I marry Bill Moore. Stood up wid him, dat day, in a -blue worsted dress and a red balmoral over a white tuck petticoat, and -under dat, a soft pique chemise wid no sleeves. Had on white stockin's -and low quarter shoes. I had sweet shrubs all through my hair and it -held them all night and de nex' night, too. Sill make a big laugh 'bout -it, while nosin' in my hair and smellin' them sweet shrubs. - -"Dr. Turner was de doctor dat 'tended de Gladney's and de slaves on de -place. - -"How us git fire? Us git two flint rocks, hold lint cotton under them, -strike a spark, it drop down, set de cotton afire and then us fan it to -a blaze. - -"Yes sir, I see many good white men, more than I got fingers and toes, -but a low down white man can git low downer than a nigger man. A good -white lady telled me one time, dat a bad white woman is a sight worser -and more low downer than a bad nigger woman can ever git to be in dis -world. Now what you gonna day to dat, Mister? Well, if you have dat -notion too, us won't argue 'bout it. - -"Does I believe de Savior has a remedy for de laks of sich women? Let me -think 'bout dat a little bit. De Savior has a cure for things, all -things. How come he ain't? Didn't he give a woman de livin' water at de -well and make her white as snow? Then he run seven devils out another -woman, for just sich sins as us is talkin' 'bout, Mister! - -"Ku Klux? Does I 'member them? Dis left knee 'members them! One night de -big road full of us niggers was comin' from church. Just as us git to de -top of de hill us see, comin' up de hill, a long line of hosses, wid -riders dressed in pure white, hoods on deir heads, and painted false -faces. They busted into a gallop for us. I was wid my brudders, Luther -and Bill; they jump de side gully and got 'way in de woods. I jump but -de jump was poor as a cow, I reckon, and dis very leg crumple up. I lay -dere in my misery 'til daylight, and my brudder, Luther, come back and -carry me home. Dat word 'home' 'minds me I ought to be goin' dere now. -De Lord take a lakin' to you, and you to me! May you git to heaven when -you die and I git dat pension befo' I die. Amen!" - - - - -Silas Nelson - - - *Interview with Silas Nelson (74)* - *R#2 Trenton, S.C., c/o Mr. Walter Marsh* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Fer 69 years Mis' Marsh done had me a-workin fer her roun the garden en -house. Course Mr. Marsh had ter work me in de field wid my boys. Us has -two mules, Joe an Delia. Dey stays in our lot. I plows a little but my -time is a wearin'. But I gits long 'Oh Key'. - -"Mr. George W. Wire tuk and died. I nursed him. I good to them all. I'se -different from any other mens. I never eats milk and butter. Ain't tuck -no medicine in thirty-five year. When sun set I is at my house every -day. - -"Lays down only 'bout two hours, dats nother way I is allus curious in -de fac' dat at nights I allus has somethin ter do. De boys jes sits and -looks at me and dey don't say nary a word, dey jes looks at me. - -"Born in slavy, too little to tell much 'bout dat, cep I is different -from my chilluns. Dey calls me curious. My pa riz up four boys. Us had -four mules and hauled dirt to Graniteville evey day when us stayed -together. Three brothers older than me. I is allus been crazy 'bout -farmin, helped my paw evey day when I was young with everything. - -"When I wuz young no man could turn me down a workin. Now it ain't none -that ken turn me down a 'walkin". - - - - -Susan Nelson - - - *Interview with Susan Nelson* - *9 Trapman Street, Charleston, S.C.* - *Mrs. Arthur Lynah* - *Ashley Avenue, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C._ - -"FOREST", A FAITHFUL SERVANT - -Susan Nelson, 9 Trapman street, about eighty years old, daughter of -Paris ("Forest") and Christina Gibbs, is a fine type of trained house -servant. Tall, slim, and erect, she carries herself with dignity, and -curtsies with grace. Her color is dark brown, her features aquiline. She -seldom smiles. - -"I am the youngest of my family and they are all dead. I never had a -child. I was married in the Methodist Church, but my husband married -again. From the first I can remember, I lived in Charleston with my -mother and father. He had his freedom before the war and worked on the -Bay. When he came home from his days work he had a cot by the door where -he would lay down to rest, and all the time he used to tell me about -'those happy days', as he said. Ask Mrs. Arthur Lynah about my father; -she knows about him." - -Susan goes on with her story:-- - -"My father belonged to Judge Prioleau and was trained to wait on the -table from the time he was a boy; and this is how he nearly got a -whippin'--his master liked 'Hoppin John' and there was some cold on the -table--you know 'Hoppin John'? His master told him to 'heat it'; he -thought his master said 'eat it', so he took it out and sat down and eat -it. When he went back his master asked him where was the 'Hoppin John'? -Paris say he eat it. His master was mad--after waitin' all that -time--and say he should have a whippin'. But Mistress say 'Oh, no, he is -young and didn't understand'; so he never got the whippin'. - -"Later he was taken from waitin' on table to be his master's -body-servant and that was when his name was changed. One of the young -ladies, his master's daughter, was named Alice, and when he called -'Paris', it sounded like 'Alice', so his master named him 'Forest' and -he kept the name from that time, for his first and his last name, and he -always went by the name of Forest until he died." - -He went abroad with Judge Pricleau as his body-servant, and traveled in -Europe. (Authority--Mrs. Arthur Lynah) - -"In later years, when his master was paralyzed, Forest was his -attendant; and when his master died, Forest watched by him all night. He -lay down under the couch--they used to lay them on couches then--and he -slept there and wouldn't leave him, and stayed there all night; and his -mistress came in the early morning and kissed his master, and she said -'you here, Forest' and he answered, 'yes, mistress.' After that, -everything was changed. His mistress wanted to give him his freedom, but -the rest of the family didn't agree to that, so he went to Savannah with -'Mas Charles'. But though he was treated well he was so homesick that he -couldn't stay. He thought of his mistress and of the old home, and of -his mother, and he ran away and came back to the Plantation. Mas Charles -was so mad when he came after him that he was ready to whip him; but -when he saw how happy they were he agreed to give Forest his freedom." - -Before the War Between the States Forest was married, living in -Charleston, and working on the Bay. Susan remembers her terror when the -shells of the Federal bombardment were bursting over the city, and -recalls holding out her arms for someone to hold her. Her father had -returned home one afternoon and was resting from a hard days work, when -a shell crashed through the walls of their little home on Tradd street, -and passed immediately over him as he lay on his cot. The neighbors came -rushing in thinking that everybody had been killed, but the shell had -passed through, shattering the house but leaving Forest unharmed. He -lived to the age of ninety-seven, valued and respected; his daughter -carries on his good reputation, and is known by the name of SUSAN -"FOREST." - - - - -William Oliver - - - *Interview given by Uncle William Oliver, a boy in slavery time* - *Murrells Inlet, S.C.* - --_Genevieve W. Chandler, Murrells Inlet, Georgetown County, - S.C._ - -"Underground Railway? They give it that name being they had this way to -transfer the slaves. T.O. Jones was one of the officers. Growed up in -Illinois. - -"I was born in Horry--eight miles this side of Conway. The old Oliver -place. Father Caesar Oliver; Mother Janie. Mother born near Little -River--Jewitt place. Joe Jewitt raise my father. Had four brother, -twelve sister: - - One Trizvan - Two Sarah - Three Martha - Four William - Five Mary, the fifth - Six Lizzie, the sixth - Seven Emma, the seven - Eighth Alice, the eighth - Nine Joanna - Ten Havilla - Eleven Ella - Twelve Redonia - Thirteen Caesar - Fourteen Zackie - Fifteen Eddie - Sixteen (He could not remember) - -"Three boys so scattered about you can't tell anything about them. All -chimney, clay. All chimneys that day, clay. Moved right away soon as -Freedom came. Women done cooking and washing same as now. Shuck -mattress. My mother was a weaver. Old timey loom. Cotton and wool. -Sheckel (Shuttle?) - -"I remember one song my mother sang: - - Do, Lord, remember me! - Remember me when the year go round! - Do, Lord, remember me! - Why can't you die - Like Jesus died? - He laid in His grave! - He crippled some. - Some He saved. - -"I can't get it all. - -"My father head man on the plantation. Indigo? Cut the bush down. Put it -in sacks. Let it drip out. Call that indigo mud. Raise cattle and hogs -loose over the County. No cash money was give to slave. Had to get a -ticket. Hire they self out as stevedore--anywhere they could--and pay -Massa so much for the time. Smart slave do that. Oh, yes, my father do -that. If they keep themselves alive after freedom, they doing well. - -"Schooling? Only by night. And that couldn't be known. When he could get -any body to teach him 'ABC' but wasn't allowed to go to any school. - -"We'd eat peas, rice, cornbread, rye bread, sweetbread. Most molasses. -Game was all over the woods. Everybody could hunt everybody land those -days. Hunting was free. When I come along had to work too hard to hunt. -Could get pike out the lakes. Go fishing Sabbath. That was day off. -Sunday free day. Wild turkey. 'Possum. Don't bother with no coon much. -'Possum and squirrel all we could get. Had our garden. Different bean -and collard. Turnip. - -"Clothes? Regular wool and cotton. Maple dye and indigo. Red, blue, -gray. Lot of gray. Big slave owners had a shoemaker. Plenty of hides. -Cow hides, deer hides. - -"When I married, was working turpentine. Rent timber and cut boxes. - -"The cruelest treatment I know of in the United States and all the other -states was done in the Southwestern states. Take New Orleans. Galveston? -Was fixing to get to Texas. Texas beat the country for cruelty. They -tell me when your Master and Missus in this country want to make you do -your task, they threaten to sell you to Texas. Had a regular 'Vanger -Range' in New Orleans. Place they keep the slaves and auction them off. -Man by the name of Perry Ann Marshall. He was sold out there. He told my -father he'd be out in the field in the morning--hoe in hand. Had to get -out there 'fore it was light, hoe in hand. Boss man there with whip. -When light enough to hoe, give order, 'Heads up!' Then lots of women -fell dead over the hoe. Give order. 'Heads up!' you chop! Breakfast -bring to you in the field. Set right there by you hoe and eat till he -say, 'Heads up!' When women fell dead, lie right there till night where -the body drop--till you knock off. That's Texas! I call Texas 'Hell.' -Even today black man can't get no first class ticket Texas! - -"When you come right down to the truth, we always got up fore day most -of time. You could go visiting other plantation, but must have you a -ticket. Patrol catch you they whip you." - - - - -Albert Oxner - - - *Interview with Albert Oxner (75)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was raised in Newberry County, S.C. on de place of Mr. Chesley Davis, -near Indian Creek. I now live in a rented house in 'Helena'. My -grandmother come from Virginia. Old man Tom Davis who lived near Indian -Creek was a grandson of Chesley Davis. My daddy was Oxner, his first -name was Wash. My mother was named Sidney Davis. My first wife was Polly -Miller and de second was Mary Mangum. - -"Marse would whip his niggers, but he wasn't a hard man. I peeped around -de house once when I was a little boy and saw him whipping a slave. - -"We got our vegetables from de white folks garden. We never had any of -our own. We had plenty home-raised meats and flour. We made our own -clothes at home by carding, spinning and weaving. We dyed dem by making -dyes from de barks of trees or red clay. - -"Marse had a big plantation, and 75 to 100 slaves. My mother was de -house-maid. She never learned to read and write, and none of us did, -either. - -"We use to hunt rabbits, 'possums, wild turkeys and squirrels, and we -went fishing, too. We never had to work on Saturday afternoons or -Sundays unless we had to take fodder or straw to de barn to keep it from -getting wet. - -"Corn-shuckings and log-rollings was common in dem days. De workers had -supper when dey got through. Niggers went to white folks' churches and -set in de back or in de gallery. A few years atter de war, de niggers -made brush arbors to use for preaching. - -"Old man Chesley Davis and two of his boys sho liked to drink liquor. -His baby boy was bad to drink. We had barbecues in dem days and nearly -every man would get drunk. - -"Later on, old man Davis tried to preach. He preached some at de Baptist -church at Bush River, and at Fairview Baptist church, about four miles -above where he lived. - -"I don't remember much about de Ku Klux. I never saw any of dem. I -remember a little about de Red Shirts. I don't remember anything about -slaves getting forty acres of land and a mule when freedom come. Since -de war, de niggers have worked on farms and done odd jobs in town." - - - - -Ann Palmer - - - *Interview with Ann Palmer (90)* - *120 N. Church St., Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"De cows lowed fer days befo' Will Abrams died. Dey got wusser and -wusser jes' right 'mediately befo' he died. De owls, dey had been -hollering in dis here holler down behind Miss Belle's house fer mo' dan -a month. One day Miss Belle, she 'lowed she ain't never heard so many -screech owls befo' dis in her life. I had done fetched her one of my -collards. We was a-talking out on de back porch. - -"I took and told her 'bout how Will had done got his finger infected -fooling wid dem dead folks. Miss Belle, she say dat ain't got nothing to -do wid Will being sick. She also 'lowed dat dat wasn't any reason fer -dem owls a-screeching and gwine on so. Den I told her, I says, 'Miss -Belle, ain't you heard de cows, how dey lows at night here recently? -Yes'm, all dese is death signs; it ain't gwine be long neither befo' we -hears 'bout somebody a-dying in dese here parts.' Miss Belle, she look -at me sort of furious like, but she never say nothing dat time. - -"Dat night de beastes was a-taking on so dat I had to hold my pulse. -Fust (first), real tight like dis; den I presses harder and harder till -I jes' natchelly squeeze all de blood out of my wristes. Dat is one of -de best signs I knows fer making dem owls and cows git quiet. Yes sir, -you has to hold your pulse fer five whole minutes, tight. When you does -dis, de owl's voice, he git lower and lower as your pulse git weaker and -weaker. Look, honey chile, all dese other niggers, dey had been a-tying -up a sheet or a-putting de shovel in de fire, and a-turning over de -nasty old shoes; but de owls, dey kept right on a-screeching. But dis -old darky, she de one what know'd how to weaken 'em down by holding her -pulse. Now, I doesn't tell dese young niggers 'round here; neither does -I tell many white folks 'bout de wisdom I is learn't 'bout such things. - -"Will Abrams, he been ailing fer I [TR: disremembers] how many weeks. He -couldn't eat nothing but beans. I had beans in my bottom corn. -Catherine, she axed me fer some and I give 'em to her. Will, he eat 'em, -fer dat was his craving. His finger got wusser till it nearly driv him -crazy. Den he got down and took to de bed. Look like his time, it was -drawing nigh. - -"White folks, de Jedgement is a-coming. We's all got to face it. De -folks is wicked, both black and so is de white. How dey 'spects de good -Lawd to have mercy on de wicked and sinful souls de way dey does every -day is mo' dan aunt Ann can see, and I is already done lived my ninety -years. De Lawd, He still sees fit to bless me wid health; and de good -white folks, He 'lows dem to help me. - -"How could Dr. Dawkins or either Dr. Montgomery do Will any good when de -Lawd, He done sot de hour? Dr. Montgomery, he 'lowed to Catherine dat -Will had two chances to die and one to live. He also said dat he had -done his best. All de darkies and white folks, too, in Union, dey come -over here to see Will. Lots of 'em fetched 'em some things along to give -to Will. He was a good man 'cause he had done been born again, and he -followed 'de straight and narrow path'. Dat's de reason dey liked him, -'cause his deeds, dey up and spoke fer him. Well, so many folks was -a-gwine in dat room dat Dr. Montgomery, he say Catherine have to keep -dem out. Will, he kept a-gitting weaker and weaker. De ailing in his -finger had done spread all over his chest. Dr. Montgomery and Dr. -Dawkins, dey held a consulation. When dey come out dey told Catherine -and dem others dat Will had done took and got pneumonia from dat finger. -So dat night, even de dogs, dey took to howling and gwine on. 'Tain't no -use to set dar and laugh when de owls screeched and de cows lowed and de -dogs howled. It sho am de death sign. - -"Hard work, trouble, and a-fooling wid dem dead folks, dem de things -what make Will go away so easy. He was always a-running 'round a-gitting -sorry niggers out of scrapes, and a-making 'greements wid de white folks -fer 'em; and dey never thanked him half de time. Us old folks, us told -him to stop fooling wid dem dead niggers and all such as de like, 'cause -he gwine to kill his-self. I is most blind, but de darkies, dey told me -how Will fooled 'round a-doing things fer so many sorry folks. - -"But den, God plucks his flowers. De night of de eighth day dem doctors -had done 'lowed dat Will had pneumonia. Will look up at his wife and -say, 'Git dese folks out of here so I can die by myself'. - -"It was 'leven o'clock in de morning when dey come and told me. Susie -Eubanks, she 'lowed dat de screeching of de owls wake her up dat morning -'bout 3 o'clock. I 'lowed dat a dog a-howling was what riz me up. -Catherine 'lowed dat she hadn't laid down no time till she heard Gus's -cow a-lowing. All de signs took and failed den, as dey will do on such -occasions." - - - - -George Patterson - - - *I* - *Interview with George Patterson* - *653 Peachtree St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -While seeking an interview with an ex-slave today, the writer was -directed to a certain house where an old man lived. Entering the -premises by the rear, he observed an old man helping a woman who was -washing some clothes. He was stepping around quite lively, carrying -water and emptying one pot after another of the dirty water already used -by the woman. After he had sufficient water for his wife's needs, he -asked the writer to go with him to the front porch where he could be -quiet and talk. - -He stated that he was large enough during the Civil War to wait on the -soldiers when they would come to his master's home for something to eat, -which was at Kilgore's Bridge on Enoree River, said that his job during -the slavery days was to wait on the white folks and watch the -plantation. - -He also stated that his father was a full-blooded Indian who was sold to -his master by Joe Crews, the biggest slave trader in the country. His -father was stolen somewhere in Mississippi, along with other Indians, -and sold into slavery with the "niggers." He said his father told him he -was stolen by Joe Crews when he was a young buck. At that time, his -father went by the name of "Pink Crews," but after he was purchased by -Mr. Joe Patterson, his name became "Pink Patterson." He stated that his -mother was a white woman who came from Ireland and was working on the -Patterson farm. She was not a slave, but was married to his father by -his "Marster." - -They lived in a one-story, one-room log cabin which had a dirt floor. -The whole family of 18 children and parents lived in this small house. -They were comfortable, however, and all had good health. He stated that -he had not been sick for fifty years, and that the only trouble with him -now was a broken foot, the result of a railroad wreck about forty years -ago. He said his foot still gave him trouble in bad weather. - -He said that he had not been conjured at all, but had just gotten his -foot broken. "Conjuring and ghosts are all foolishness anyhow." The -nearest he ever come to seeing a ghost was one night when he observed a -"white thing moving back and forth across the branch." He had with him -his brother's cap and ball pistol, and he shot at the object two or -three times, knowing that his dogs would come to him if they heard the -shots. Two or three dogs came up and recognized him. He told one bull -dog to go to the white thing and see what it was. After the dog had been -all around the place where the thing was moving, he knew there was -nothing there to frighten him. Next morning, he went out to see the -object and found it to be a small tree with white leaves waving in the -breeze. - -Going back to slavery times, he said that on most plantations were kept -squirrel dogs, 'possum dogs, snake dogs, rabbit dogs and "nigger" dogs. -Each dog was trained for a certain kind of tracking. He used to train -the "nigger" dogs which were used to track slaves who had run away from -the plantation. He said he had two dogs that were sure never to lose the -scent when they had taken it up. "If I put them on your track here and -you went to Greenville, they would track you right to Greenville." - -He said his master did not allow his slaves to be whipped but he had -seen slaves on other plantations wearing chains to keep them from -running away. - -"People don't work like they used to, and this thing of higher education -is ruining niggers. All their learning teaches them is how to beat a man -out of a dollar and how to get out of work. It teaches them to cus, and -it teaches these young girls how to make easy money. As old as I am, -I've been approached by girls I didn't know and asked for a dollar. Now -that thing won't do. I believe in teaching children how to read and -write; but don't go any further than that. I've never seen a moving -picture. Once a man offered to give me a ticket to a movie, but I told -him to give me a plug of tobacco instead." When asked if he thought -colored preachers should be educated, he replied that when they are -educated they learn how to steal everything a man has, if they can. - -"You remember reading about Joe Crews and Jim Young--what they did in -this state? Well, they tried to lead all the niggers after the war was -over. I was the one who got Jim Young away from the whites. I carried -him to Greenville, but he got back somehow, and was killed. Joe Crews -was killed, too. The Ku Klux was after them hot, but I carried Jim Young -away from them. You know, the Yankees was after getting all the gold and -money in the South. After the war, some Yankee soldiers would come along -and sell anybody, niggers or whites, a gun. They were trying to get on -to where the white people kept their money. If they caught on, they -would go there and steal it. You know, there wasn't any banks, so people -had to keep their money and gold in somebody's safe on some big man's -place. These men in selling guns was trying to find out where the money -was hid." - -When asked about hunting, he said that hunting in slavery days was not -like it is now, for a man could hunt on his own place then and get -plenty of game. There were plenty of wild hogs in those days, as well as -wild turkeys, rabbits and squirrels. Some of the hogs were so wild that -no one dared to go into a pack of them, for they had tusks six inches -long, and could tear a man to pieces. A man could shoot a wild hog and -have no trouble over it. Cattle, he said, ran wild and were dangerous at -all times. - -"When you buy something now, you haven't got much. I bought a cake of -soap for my wife but it was a small thing. When we used to make our own -soap on the plantation, we had plenty of good soap." - -He said his father followed his master and others to the war, and he -drove artillery wagons at times. At Appomattox, his father told him that -he drove wagons over dead soldiers piled in ditches. His father lived to -be 111 years old. After he and his father were set free, they remained -with Mr. Joe Patterson to help him make that year's crops; then they -moved to another place. - -He heard that work was plentiful in Spartanburg, and he moved here and -did various kinds of work. He said that he was not as strong as he used -to be, but that he could still do a full day's work except when his foot -troubled him. - -Uncle George was quite polite and seemed glad to talk of old times. He -observed, though, that in old times people would speak to him. "You go -up to a crowd now, and they won't speak. They won't notice you." - - *II* - *Interview with George Patterson* - *653 Peachtree St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -George Patterson, ex-slave, says that during the Civil War and -afterwards, when the owners of plantations in the Enoree River section -had a surplus of peaches and apples, they made apple and peach brandy; -and after they had filled kegs with it, rolled the kegs into a pond to -keep them from leaking until they were either sold or taken out for -personal use. Corn and rye whiskey were also stored in the water to keep -the kegs from leaking. In those days, he stated, good whiskey sold for -40 cents a gallon. Butter sold for five cents a pound; eggs six cents a -dozen, and hens that now cost 75 cents a piece, sold for ten cents. But -stated George, salt was very dear and hard to get; a barrel costing as -much as $50. - -George also stated there were plenty of wild turkeys, ducks and wild -geese on the Enoree River. The turkeys would ravage a garden or scratch -up the planted seed on the plantation. He has often been sent out to -frighten the wild turkeys away from the crops. He said plenty of meat -could be secured by shooting the wild hogs that roamed the woods, that -anybody was at liberty to kill a hog. Of course, some once tame hogs -mingled with the droves of wild hogs but the tame hogs had the owner's -name on them; so one had to be very careful that he did not shoot a -marked hog. He said that when his father, an Indian, was stolen by Joe -Crews, from the woods of Mississippi, he marched them with niggers he -had also stolen, or traded for, into different sections of the country, -selling them as slaves and speculating on them. He drove them just like -cattle and would stop at various plantations and sell the Indians and -niggers into slavery. - - - - -Sallie Paul - - - *I* - *Interview with Sallie Paul, 79 years* - *Marion, S.C., Fairlee Street* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"I remember we colored people belong to de white folks in slavery time. -Remember when de war was gwine on 'cause we hear de guns shoot en we -chillun jump up en holler. Yes, mam, I remember dat. Remember de 30th of -dis October, I was 79 years old. - -"No, mam, I ain' got no kin people. You see I been born in North -Carolina. Government lady get Lindy Henderson to stay here en look out -for me 'cause it be like dis, I can' see out my eyes one speck. Can' -tell de night from de day. Don' discover daylight no time, child. We -rents dis here house from Miss (Mrs.) Wheeler en Lindy treats me mighty -good." - -(Lindy: "Well, we gets along nicely. I done feed her up en she get back -in bed, it be so cold en ain' got no coal to heat her. Yes, mam, has to -wait on de Salvation of de Lord. Government gives us a little small -salary, but we has to live mighty small, mighty small. Honey, it takes a -right sharp to live on dese days. If dey wasn' helpin me, I just don' -know, be as I ain' much dese days. Got dis high blood so worser en den I -has such a achin in my joints en throat dat does worry me right smart -too.") - -"My white folks, dey was de Williamsons dere in North Carolina. Yes, -mam, dey was good to dey colored people. We lived right in dey yard or -dat what you may say in de yard. All de colored people lived dere side -de yard whe' dey be close enough to holler if anything get de matter. -You see, I wasn' big enough to do no work much den only as we chillun -tote up wood for de white folks en piddle 'bout de yard. I know I won' -big enough to do nothin but jump up en keep fuss gwine all round de yard -dere. I remembers dey used to get a handful of switches en stand us -chillun up in a long row en give us all a lick 'bout de legs. You see, -dey didn' work de chillun when dey was little bit of things en stunt dem -up. Chillun grow to be 'bout 12 or 13 years old fore dey work dem in dat -day en time. - -"My white folks was well off peoples, honey. My Massa, he run three -plantations en he had a heap of colored peoples dere. You see, people -didn' run over de ground in dat day en time like dey do now. De men lift -up every piece de dirt in de ground en get all de roots out it. My -mother, she was one of de plow hands dere en when time come to lay off -de ground, she force to work out. Dat de reason we chillun be up in de -yard twixt meals. Den when breakfast en supper come, we eat to we house. -Live close enough to de white folks house dat de nigger chillun could go -to de house en get dey hominy en clabber 'tween meals. Oh, dey have dese -here long wooden trays set up somewhe' under de tree dere in de yard dat -dey would full up wid hominy en clabber for we chillun. Give some spoon -en dem others never had none. Dat it, all eat out de same tray right -side together. Yes, mam, when I was raise up, have plenty to eat en -chillun never fail to get it." - -(Lindy: "Oh, child, we was bred en born in a fat kitchen in dat day en -time. We was well taken care of. People say I don' look like it 'cause I -here gwine 'bout wid stick in my hand. Sho was raise up in a fat -kitchen. Yes, mam, I was raise to do all de cookin en de nursin for de -white folks. Ain' never see no kitchen yet dat dey could lost me in -'cause I was trained myself. Never had no chance to go to school no -time. You see, if it wasn' cookin, it was chillun. 'Bout time new baby -come, dat first baby be knee child en so on like dat. Well, let me hush -now, honey, en let Sallie tell you dat what in her mind. She de one what -you come to get speech from.") - -"Yes, mam, de people ate like dey eats now, but dey didn' never know -what a stove was in dem days. Some of de kitchen fireplace, you could -put a whole railin in it to hang de pots on. Den dey had dem big old -clay chimneys wid dirt ovens dat would hold a bushel of tatoes to a -time. Just was a brick chimney now en den in slavery time. Bake all de -cakes en de bread right dere on de fireplace. Child, dere sho been more -to eat in slavery time den dere be now en I know dat all right. Dere -been more sheep en hogs en cows en goats. No, mam, I don' think I like -goat. I don' think so. I recollects I tried to eat some goat one time en -it swell in my mouth. Know I wouldn' eat sheep neither. It a sin. Seem -like dey so humble. - -"White folks didn' give de niggers no money no time, but dey had money -in slavery time much so as dey does now. You see, all de white folks -wasn' equal. Some was poor en de colored people sell dem things dey -white folks never want. Oh, dey take anything you carry dem. - -"I don' know nothin 'bout de Yankees only I see dem come through dere de -day we was freed, but won' no great heap of dem come. Coase dey was -passin through dat country all durin de war en come to de colored -people's house en get somethin to eat. Yes, mam, colored people feed dem -en give dem somethin to travel on. It just like dis, de Yankees would -give de colored people dey good clothes en take dey rags. You see, dey -was desertin. Was runnin away en gettin back home. I don' know whe' if -de white folks know 'bout dey dere or not, but I know one thing, Massa -didn' see dem. - -"Yankees didn' do no harm nowhe' in dat country to nobody, white nor -colored. Never hear tell of dat, but white people was scared of de -Yankees as dey was of a rattlesnake. Yankees tell de colored people dey -was free as dey was, but just didn' know it. I know dey said dat 'cause -I was standin up listenin to dem just like any other child be standin -dere lookin up in your mouth. Den when de colored people was freed, heap -of de white folks died 'cause dey grieve demselves to death over de loss -of dey property. Sho know dat 'cause I see dem en hear tell 'bout it -plenty times. - -"Dere been plenty white folks dat wouldn' never fight against de Yankees -widout dey couldn' get out of it. Dey slip off en hide in pits dey dig -in de woods en in de bays. Some of dem say dey didn' have no slaves en -dey won' gwine fight. Dat de way it be, if dey didn' fight, dey had to -run away en stay in de woods. Dat point me to think 'bout how young -Massa would slip off wid de colored boys on a Sunday to play like white -people will do en would learn dem to read. Carry old Webster's Blue Back -wid dem en when dey been way off yonder, young Massa would learn dem to -read. My father could read, but he couldn' never write. - -"Yes, mam, white folks get handful of switches en whip de nigger chillun -round de legs, but wouldn' never whip none of de grown 'omans 'cause dey -was breedin. Didn' kill niggers whe' I was born." - -(Lindy; "My Lord, child, reckon dey would 'bout beat me to death if I -been livin den 'cause I done had two husbands en ain' never bear no -child yet. Doctor tell me if I want a child, I would have to go to de -hospital en be operated on en I wouldn' never get my mind fixed to do -dat. Honey, I lies down in dat bed dere at night en thanks my God dat I -ain' never had dat operation. I know I been bless 'cause dis de time of -Revelations de people livin in. Don' want no child my God gwine hold me -responsible for at de Jedgment. Sho bless 'cause like I see de world -gwine, people ain' got no time to be gettin ready to meet dey God. Tell -my God dat I thank he a thousand times again dat I been make like I is. -It a blessin, honey, a blessin.") - -"Yes, mam, de white folks make dey own cloth right dere on de plantation -in dem days. Dey had a loom house, but my mother had a loom right to her -own door. Sometimes, she would weave piece for de white folks en den she -weave for herself. White folks find all de colored people's clothes en -see to have all dey weavin done in dat day en time. Dey had certain one -of de colored people to do all de common weavin, but dey couldn' do dem -three en four treadle till dey Missus learn dem how. My old Missus could -weave any kind of cloth or blankets or anything like dat. - -"Oh, de white folks be right dere to look after dey colored people if -dey get sick. Coase dey gwine take care of dey niggers. Gwine save dem -just as long as dey got breath in dey body. Won' no niggers gwine suffer -if dey need doctor neither. Heap of dem was cared for more better in -slavery time den dey is now 'cause dey had somebody dat had to care for -dem or lose dem one. Ain' no white folks want to lose dey niggers. - -"No, God! no, God! I hear talk 'bout it, but I don' know whe' dey can do -it or not. If dey can conjure, dey keep it to demselves. Dey never tell -me. I hear tell of dem things call ghosts, but I ain' never see none of -dem en ain' never see no hant neither. I has see a spirit though. -Peoples dat been dead, dey appears fore you en vanishes. Seen dem all -right. Dem things call ghosts en things, I don' wanna see none 'cause I -don' know 'bout dem. Hear talk of dem, but ain' seen nothin like dat. - -"Well, it like I tellin you, everybody didn' hate dey white folks. Dat -how-come some niggers stayed right on dere wid dey white people after -freedom en farmed for half what dey made on de crop. You see, dey didn' -have nothin to work wid so dey stayed on dere en farmed on shares. - -"I couldn' exactly tell you which de better times dese days or in -slavery time. I know heap of de colored people fared better when dey -belonged to de white folks 'cause dey had good owners. Didn' have to -worry 'bout huntin dey clothes en somethin to eat in dat day en time. -Just had to work. Now dey have to hunt it en get it together de best way -dey can. Oh, honey, peoples has so much worraytions dese days. Dat -how-come dey ain' live a long time like dey used to." - - *II* - *Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79* - *Marion, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"No, mam, I ain' able to see none tall no time. Dis here one of my eye -is weaken from dat other one. Cose I can tell de day from night, but say -see somethin, I couldn' never do dat. - -"Well, I don' know nothin more to speak 'bout den dat I been tell you -dem other times you come here. It just like I tell you, we nigger -chillun would look to de white folks yard in de day, but we stayed to us -house in de quarter on a night. Oh, we lived close enough to de white -folks yard to know dere was cookin gwine on in de Missus kitchen. No, -child, we never eat us meals to de white folks house. You see, all de -niggers on de plantation would draw rations den just like heap of dese -people 'bout here draw rations dese days. I mean dey would draw so much -of ration from dey Massa to last dem a week at a time just like de -people draw government ration right 'bout here now. Dere was sho a -plenty to eat in dat day en time, too, 'cause I know whe' I come up, I -was raise on a plenty. Dere was abundance of meat en bread en milk all -de time. Yes, mam, cows won' lackin no time whe' I was raise. I remember -dey would give us chillun all de milk en hominy us could eat twixt -meals. Always fed de nigger chillun to de white folks yard twixt meals. -You see, dey was mighty particular 'bout how dey would raise en feed de -little niggers in dem days. Been more particular den you would be -particular wid a ten dollar bill dis day en time. Would keep dey little -belly stuff wid plenty hominy en milk same as dey was pigs. Dey do dat -to make dem hurry en grow 'cause dey would want to hurry en increase dey -property. De white folks never didn' despise to see a big crop of nigger -chillun comin on. Hear tell dat some of de white folks would be mean to -dey colored people, but never did see nothin of dat kind 'bout my white -folks' plantation. Cose de colored people would be let loose to get -together on a night en when Sunday come. Dat all de time dey ever had to -visit 'cause dey been force to work from sunup on de hill till sundown -over de swamp. - -"Oh, de colored people had plenty song in slavery time, but I ain' -studyin nothin 'bout dat now. My 'membrance short dese days, child. Yes, -mam, de colored people had so many song in slavery time, I can' remember -de first word. Dey would sing anything dey could make a noise wid. Some -of dem could read out de hymn book en some of dem couldn' tell one word -from de other. Yes, mam, some of de young Massa would steal off to de -woods wid dey colored mate on a Sunday evenin' en learn dem to read. No, -Lord, dere won' no schools nowhe' for de colored people in dem days. -White folks catch nigger wid a book, nigger sho know he gwine get a -whippin soon as dat tale let loose. Now en den dey young Massa would -learn dem, but dey wouldn' never let dey fore-mammy know 'bout it. Cose -dey couldn' never write, but some of dem could read. Massa en Missus -never know 'bout it though. - -"Now, it de Lord truth, honey, I ain' want to mislead you noway. Wouldn' -do dat for nothin. Don' lay no mind to heap of dis talk I hear some -people speak 'bout. I gwine talk 'bout what I been touch wid. Some of de -colored people fared good en some of dem fared bad in slavery time. Some -of dem had good owners en some of dem had bad ones. Thank de Lord, I -didn' get much of it 'cause I won' but nine years old when freedom come. -(Whe' de lady? Gone?). (The old woman is totally blind and remains in -bed all the time). Some of de white folks had dese here overseers en dey -was rough owners. Thank God, I was little en dey never didn' whip me -exceptin little bit 'bout de legs dere in old Massa yard. Remember dey -cut we chillun round de legs wid a switch sometimes when dey would want -to punish us en learn us better sense. Honey, us had a good old Massa. -Won' no cuttin en slashin gwine on round us like dere was on dem other -plantations round dere. My blessed a mercy, lady, some of dem grown -niggers mighty as well been dead in dat day en time, de overseers been -so mean. De little chillun wouldn' never be force to work like dey is -now. Dey would just be playin 'bout dere in old Massa yard en totin wood -for dey Missus. Wouldn' have to work in slavery time 'cause dey had -somebody to feed dem. Dat de difference, dey have to work for what dey -get dis day en time en ain' be satisfied wid it neither. - -"Well, I don' know nothin 'bout dem cornshuckin dey used to have only as -dey would gather de crop in dem days en haul it up to de white folks big -old farm barn. Den dey would ax all de white folks 'bout dere to send -dey hands dere to shuck corn one night. En pray, dey would have such a -whoopin en a hollerin en de like of a big supper dere dat night. My -blessed Lord, dat was a big time for we chillun. One man would have corn -shuck to his barn one night en dey would all help shuck corn to another -man barn de next night. You see, people was more mindful to bless one -another in dat day den dey be dese days. Yes, mam, neighbor been please -to turn good hand to neighbor den. - -"Oh, dere ain' been no end to fine victuals in dat day en time. You know -dere was a plenty to eat in slavery time 'cause de people made somethin -to eat den, but ain' nothin now hardly. Child, dis a tight time we gwine -through dese days. I remember dey used to have plenty 'tatoes en bread -en fresh meat every day en have heap of sheep en cows en goats all 'bout -de woods den, but dere ain' nothin growin in de woods dese days. Now, if -a man got a hog, he got it by de tail in de pen. No, mam, de most of de -people ain' got nothin now en dey ain' got nothin to buy somethin wid -neither. - -"I don' know, child. I settin here in dis bed day in en day out wid dese -old bare eye en I don' know how de people gwine. I don' study nothin -'bout dem. I know I don' care how or which a way dey gwine 'cause I -studyin 'bout most all my days behind me now. Plenty people ain' livin -good as dey used to live long time ago. Seems like de times is tighter -en worser den what dey used to be. Reckon de reason be dere was more -made to eat den. Pa always tell we chillun dat it a sign de times gettin -better when dere more made to eat, child." - - *III* - *Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79* - *Marion, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"I ain' tryin to remember nothin 'bout my mammy when she was a girl. I -know I hear dem speak 'bout old Massa bought her en my grandmammy from -off de block en raised dem to a good livin. Hear talk dat some of de -colored people 'bout dere would catch old Harry in slavery time, but -dere won' nothin snatchin noways 'bout my white folks. I mean some of de -colored people would catch de devil in dat day en time 'cause dey come -up under a rough boss. Just had half enough to eat en had to stir 'bout -half naked most all de time. Not been took care of as dey should have -been. - -"Cose when we was chillun, de grown people would be force to punish us -some of de time. Yes, mam, I do know what would happen to me, if I been -get in devilment. I would get a whippin right den en dere. Nobody -wouldn' never whip me, but old Massa en my mammy 'cause people won' no -more allowed to whip anybody child den dey is dese days. My child done -anything wrong den, you had to come to me 'bout it. I recollects, dey -would whip us chillun wid tree switches round us legs. Den if dey would -want to spare de punishment, dey would try to scare us out de mischief. -Tell us Bloody Bones would jump out dat corner at us, if we never do -what dey say do. - -"Oh, I here to tell you, dey had de finest kind of enjoyments in dem -days. It was sho a time, to speak 'bout, when dey had one of dem -quiltings on de plantation. Didn' do nothin but quilt quilts en dance en -play some sort of somethin after dey would get done. Colored people -would have quiltings to one of dey own house, up in de quarter, heap of -de nights en dey would frolic en play en dance dere till late up in de -night. Would enjoy demselves better den de peoples do dese days 'cause -when dey would get together den, dey would be glad to get together. Oh, -my Lord, dey would dance en carry on all kind of fuss. Yes, mam, blow -quills en knock bones together dat would make good a music as anybody -would want to dance by. Child, dey had plenty scraps to make dey bed -clothes wid, 'cause dey Missus would save scraps for dem. - -"Yes, mam, de white folks would furnish de colored people wid clothes -for true in dat day en time. Dey couldn' let dem go naked. How dey gwine -work wid bare back? Cose dey fine clothes, dey managed to get dat -demselves. You see, white folks wouldn' give dem no Sunday frock, but -one. I tell you, de cloth was better wearin' den. Dis here cloth dese -days, wear it two or three times, de wind could 'bout blow through it. -Oh, dey had de finest kind of silk in slavery time. Don' hear no silk -rattlin' 'bout here dese days, but would hear silk rattle in slavery -time just as same as would hear paper rattlin'. Colored people wore just -as much silk in dem days as dey do now 'cause when dey had a silk dress -den, it been a silk dress. Won' no half cotton en half silk. Goods was -sho better den, child, I say. Like I tell you, when a man had a -broadcloth suit den, it won' no half jeanes. All de colored people, dat -been stay on my white folks plantation, had dey own little crop of corn -en fodder 'bout dey house en when a peddler come along, dey would sell -dey crop en buy silk from de peddler. Dey been sell dey crop to anybody -dey could. Dere was always a poor one somewhe' dat been need corn en -fodder. - -"No, mam, colored people didn' have no church of dey own in slavery time -'cause dey went to de white folks church. All I can tell you, we went to -buckra's church en dey set in one part de church en us set in de -gallery. Yes, mam, de white folks would see to it dat all dey niggers -never chance to miss church service no time. En de slave owners would -bury dey plantation niggers right dere to de colored people graveyard -behind de church, dat was settin right side de white people graveyard. - -"I won' married till long time after freedom come here en when I get -married, de colored people had dese here bresh (brush) shelters for dey -church en dey had dey own colored preacher, too. Honey, I marry a Paul, -a slavery one, but I didn' have no big weddin. Didn' want none. Just -married dere to my father's house en I had a white dress dat was made -out of cotton, all I can tell. Know it won' no silk. I don' know nothin -more den dat to tell you. Dat de mighty truth, all I know, I had me a -husband en dat won' no great blessin, to speak 'bout. - -"Don' ax me, child. Ax somebody dat know somethin 'bout dem things -people say is a charm. I say, dey is ignorant people what believe in -dem. I know I ain' never wear nothin round my foot 'cause I ain' got no -dime to spend, much less to be puttin it round my foot. I calls dat -nothin but a foolish person dat would do dat, ain' you say so? I see a -woman once wear a twenty-five cents piece tie round her ankle en I ax -her what she do dat for. She tell me she had de rheumatism en she hear -dat would cure it. I tell her I ain' had no mind to have no faith in all -dat what I hear people speak 'bout. Dat won' nothin but a devil been -talkin to dat woman, I say. - -"My God a mercy, I tell you, slavery time was somethin. Dat been a day. -Colored people didn' have no privileges den only as dey Massa would let -dem loose on a Saturday evenin' en on a Sunday. But, child, dey was just -as proud of dat as people is proud of a month dese days. Didn' have no -more privileges in slavery time den dese people got now in dis here -chain gang. No, mam, niggers belong to dey owner in slavery just like -you got a puppy belong to you. Make dem go so far en den stop. - -"What I think 'bout Abraham Lincoln? I ain' took time to have no -thoughts 'bout him. Hear so much talk 'bout him till I don' know what he -done. Hear talk dat he been de one dat free de slaves, but whe' de -power? De power been behind de throne, I say. God set de slaves free. De -Lord do it. Abraham Lincoln couldn' do no more den what God give de -power to do. It just like dis, I believes it was intended from God for -de slaves to be free en Abraham Lincoln was just de one what present de -speech. It was revealed to him en God was de one dat stepped in en fight -de battle." - - - - -Lina Anne Pendergrass - - - *Interview with Lina Anne Pendergrass* - *Union, S.C., Rt. 1* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I'se born 10 years befo' Freedom on a Christmas day. Marse Tom Sanders, -whose place I'se born on, lived in Chester County. One of my first -'memberances is a dream. I though' I saw my little sister, Sars, laying -on a cooling board. I was five years old at dat time. I woke my mother -up and tole her 'bout it, but it was jus' a dream an' wasn't nothin' to -it. - -"I never had no schooling and the Ku Klux sho scairt me. They took my -daddy; my brother was too young. It was on Sat'day night. Next day was -Sunday, and dey didn't fix de doors what de Ku Klux broke down. Us -nebber did see pa no mo'. - -"As it was in de day of Noah, so shall it be in de coming of de days of -Jesus Christ. Peoples fitting and a-killin' and a-scrappin' all de time -now, kaize dey don't take no time to go to prayer meeting. My -grandfather had a prayer-meeting house. All de niggers on de plantation -went to it ever Sat'day night. Dey sot on benches, and den dey would git -down on dere knees and pray. I was a little gal, and me and de other -gals would fetch water for dem to drink. Us toted pine when it was cole, -and us'd take coals 'round fer de ole folks to light dere pipes wid. -Atter while, dey git to singin' and shoutin'. Den de Spirit done come -down and tuck hole of dem. Dat would be when everybody would get happy. -De ole rafters creak and shake as de Spirit of de Lord sink deeper and -deeper in de hearts of the prayin' folks. Tate Sanders, de preacher from -Lowryville, would come in 'bout dat time and raise his hands 'bove de -congregation and plead wid de Lawd to open de hearts of de wicked so dat -de Holy Spirit could come in. Wasn't no killin' and scratchin' going on -in dem days. De ole folks tell us chillun dat if we do wrong, de Lawd -gwine come down in His wrath and punish us on dis earth. Sides dat, He -gwine send us to torment whar we's live in 'ternal hell fire. De worl' -is so wicked now dat I'se looking fer de locust to come and stay five -months and sting everybody in de fo'head dat ain't got religion. Den -people will be so 'shame of deself fer dere wickedness dat dey will seek -death, and dey won't be able to get no death. - -"De Lawd, He is a-pressin' me on up. Yes, Lawd, Revelation is wonderful. -De comin' out of smoke, dem's de devil's angels. When you reads de Word -of de Lawd, take an interes' in it. De people dat I knows is so wicked -dat my heart keeps anguished. - -"I learnt myself how to read. My pa brought a Bible from de war. I has -dat and I reads it. My pa got shot comin' from Mississippi. Marse -Sanders hear about it and he sont and brung him home. Den us lived 15 -miles from Chester on Broad River. My pappy was named Henry Dorsey. When -he was young, he was Marse Sander's butler boy. He got well from de -shot. Den de Ku Klux got him for something. I ain't never knowed what. I -don't know what dey done when I was a baby. - -"I'se nussed since I was a little gal. My ma made me make teas to cure -folks' colds and ailments. She made me fetch her water and towels and -other things while she wait on de sick folks. Dat's de way I was broke -into nussing. Nineteen-eighteen laid out folks at Monarch. I started -right after breakfas' wid two dollars. Git home at night with narry a -penny. Git folks soup and milk. Everybody dat didn't get sick worked -hard. De folks died anyway like flies. De Lawd give me strength to stand -up through de whole time. When de flu pass on and de folks get well, den -dey pay me for my services. - -"Millie Nash, Andy's wife, she look atter me since I'se got ole. She -gooder to me dan anybody I know, but at de same time, she's aggravation -to me kaise she drink likker. Millie sho does git drunk, but I keeps on -prayin' fer her. Dis mawnin she's gwine to a funeral. She was poling -'long 'hind me and drapped her pocketbook. When us git ready to go into -de church, she stopped and grabbed hol' of me and say, 'Lina, whar my -pocketbook?' I looks at her and say, 'Nigger, how does I know whar'bouts -you throw dat thing down? You stayed 'hind me all de way from de ice -house. Didn't I tell you to let dat dram alone befo' you left de house?' -I sot down in front of de church and Millie turned around and went down -de street toward de ice house. She seed her pocketbook where she drapped -it, 'bout half way twixt de ice house and de church. When she come 'long -whar I was sitting, I 'lowed to her dat I'se gwine up to de relief -office. I lef' her and here I is. Won't be long befo' Millie be here, -too. De funeral done marched on when Millie got back to de church." - - - - -Amy Perry - - - *Interview with Amy Perry (82)* - --_Jessie A. Butler, Charleston, S.C._ - -Amy (Chavis) Perry is eighty-two years old. She is strong for her age -and lives alone in an old building at the rear of 21 Pitt street where -she supports herself by taking in washing. She is a self-respecting old -negress, with a reputation for honesty among the "white folks" whom she -considers her friends. - -Amy has two names, "like de people in doze times"--Amy Rebecca. She -"adopted the Rebecca." Her father was John Minser Chavis, a slave in the -McClure family, who, she claims, lived to be 116 years old, and "who -wukked up to de las'," and Sarah (Thompson) Chavis, who belonged to Mrs. -William Keller, an ancestor of the Cogswell family of Charleston. Amy -says she was given to Miss Julia Cogswell as a "daily gift," Miss Julia -having been a child at the same time that she was. In reply to a few -leading questions Amy gave the following story. - -"We is live in de country, near Orangeburg, and I remembers berry little -'bout de war and de time befo' de war. You see I bin berry little, I bin -only seben year old. Some ole people mek out like dey remembers a lot ob -t'ings." Here she gave the writer a quizzical look. "You know -imagination is a great t'ing. Dey eider mek all dat up or dey tell you -what bin tell dem. I got to stick to de trut', I 'members berry little, -berry little. I don't 'member much 'bout what we did in de country befo' -de war, nor what we eat, nor no games and such. I don't know what de big -people wear. De cullered people mek dey own cloth, and call um cotton -osnaburg. Dey mek banyans for de chillen. Sleebe bin cut in de cloth, -and dey draw it up at de neck, and call um banyan. Dey is wear some kind -ob slip under um but dat all. Dey ain't know nutting 'bout drawers nor -nutting like dat. - -"De medicine I remember was castor oil, and dogwood and cherry bark, -which dey put in whiskey and gib you. Dey is gib you dis to keep your -blood good. Dogwood will bitter yo' blood, it good medicine, I know. - -"I 'member de people hab to git ticket for go out at night. W'en dey is -gone to prayer meeting I is see dem drag bresh back dem to outen dey -step. If de patrol ketch you wid out ticket dey beat you. - -"I 'members w'en de Yankee come tru, and Wheeler a'my come after um. -Doze bin dreadful times. De Yankees massicued de people, and burn dere -houses, and stole de meat and eberyting dey could find. De white folks -hab to live wherebber dey kin, and dey didn't hab enough to eat. I know -whole families live on one goose a week, cook in greens. Sometimes they -hab punkin and corn, red corn at dat. Times was haard, haard. De -cullered people dodn't hab nutting to eat neider. Dat why my auntie -bring me to Charleston to lib. - -"De fust year atter freedom I gone to school on Mr. John Townsend place, -down to Rockville. After peace declare de cullered people lib on -cornmeal mush and salt water in de week and mush and vinegar for Sunday. -Mine you, dat for Sunday. I don't see how we lib, yet we is. About eight -year after de war we use to go down to de dairy for clabber. Dey give -you so much for each one in de fambly, two tablespoon full for de grown -people and one tablespoon for de chilluns. We add water to dat and mek a -meal. In de country de cullered people lib on uh third (crop) but of -course at de end of de year dey didn't hab nutting, yet dey has libed. I -'member w'en de Ku Klux was out too, de people bin scared 'cause dey is -beat some and kill some." - -When asked which she thought best, slavery or freedom, her answer was: -"Better stay free if you can stay straight. Slabery time was tough, it -like looking back into de dark, like looking into de night." - -Feeling that as she remembered so little of plantation life her opinion -was based on hearsay or her memories of war times, the writer told her -of the answer of another old Negro woman: "No matter what slabery bring, -if it hadn't been for slabery I nebber would hab met my Jesus." It -seemed to make a strong impression on Amy who threw up her hands in the -typical African gesture, and said "Praise de Lawd, w'en yo talk 'bout -Jesus you is got me coming and going." - -Amy is deeply religious. She owns four of Judge Rutherford's books which -she claims to have read "from cubber to cubber" many times. "Some people -b'lieve in dreams," she said, "but I don't hab no faith in dem. Lot ob -people b'lieve in root and sich but dey can't scare me wid root. I roll -ober dem from yuh to Jericho and dey wouldn't bodder me. A man died bad -right in dat house yonder, and I went wid de doctor and close his sight -and sich, and I come right home and gone to bed and sleep. He ain't -bodder me and I ain't see um since. I don't believe in ghosts, nor -dreams, nor conjuh, dat de worse. John de Baptist and dem dream dreams, -and de Lawd show dem vision, but dat diffrunt." With another comical -look at the writer, she continued; "You can eat yo' stomach full and -you'll dream. I b'lieve in some kind ob vision. You doze off, and you -hab a good dream. I b'lieve dat. People get converted in dreams. I was -twelve year ole when I get converted. I dreamed I was in a field, a -large green field. A girl was dere dat I didn't had no use for. I had a -bundle on my back. I honey de girl up and love um and de bundle fall on -de ground. Dey put me in de church den. - -"Some people say dey kin see ghost but you can't see ghost and lib. De -Bible say if you kin see de wind you kin see spirit. If you kin see -ghost you can see Gawd, and I know you can't see Gawd and lib. De Bible -say so. I don't b'lieve in um, no ghost, and no cunjuh tho' my uncle -Cotton Judson and my aunt Nassie both b'lieve in dem. Uncle Cotton could -do most as much as de debbul (devil) hesself, he could most fly, but I -nebber b'lieve in um no matter what he kin do." - -In order to get her to talk the writer told her of a few of the -accomplishments of the East Indians. She said, "Yes, Gawd got some -people mek berry wise. Dey can't say dey mek demself wise. What race -dese Indian come from, anyway, I know dem come from Indiana, but what -race, Ham, Seth, Japheth or what. I hear de Indian hab some wise ways, -and my people b'lieve in all kind ob ghost, and spirit an t'ing but I -don't. I don't eben let um talk to me 'bout dem, w'en det start I say -'gone gome wid dat.' I can't counteract de Bible and I can't counteract -Gawd, I don't b'lieve in um. Dat what I don't visit round. My people lub -(love) too much idle discourse, and idle discourse is 'gainst de Bible. -I nebber trapsy round w'en I young and I don't now. Day why I don't hab -no company. As long as ole people lib dey going to tell de young ones -'bout ghost an t'ing, and dey going to pass it on, and w'en dey die dey -going to leab dat foolishness right yuh. No I don't b'lieve in no conjuh -and no root. If dey gib me poison den dey got me." - - - - -Rob Perry - - - *Interview with Uncle Rob Perry & Aunt Della Britton* - *Trenton, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Aunt Della born in 1863. He in 1864. He drove cows fer Marse Squire Jim -Perry, who lived on the line of Edgefield and Newberry Counties. Mos de -time dey traded in Newberry County, 'cause it nearer town. All road wuz -bad in dem days, even in summer dey wuz allus rough. - -"Uncle Rob toted water, picked up chips and carried rations fum kitchen -to dinin room. Often Messrs. Jim Long, Sam, Jake and Bob Smith, (3 -brothers) came to our big house fer dinner and to dance afterward. - -"Plenty water to tote and fires to build den. Go out an git pine and -cedar limbs to put over de picturs and 'roun de mantle boards' Fix up de -table wid trimmins, git mo candles and put all roun. Mak egg-nog in de -winter and mint juleps in de summer. Some time dar wuz sillabub, it -ain't so good tho. De young mens dat I mentioned befo have me ter pick -out pretty girls fer dem ter dance wid. I drap a curtsey an han' dem de -name. If dey want ter dance wid him they look at him and flick dey fan -an if dey didn't den dey never give him no mind. - -"Dat done all pass by as evry thing does. Now I thanks God and looks to -de Savior. Ef dar is success ter ye dat is what you has to do all de -time. Della and I done had fifteen chilluns. Us is so lonesome as we has -jes one a livin. - -"Mr. Campbell, a Yankee man married Miss Joanna Perry. Her paw wuz Mr. -Oliver Perry of Bouknight's Ferry on de Saluda River. In dat famly wuz -Miss Isabelle and Messrs. John, Milledge, Jake and Tom. Miss Joanna -marry on Friday in de parlor all fixed up wid cedar ropes a-hangin' fum -de ceilin an de mo-es candles what a body ever did see. She made us -buil' her a arch and kivver hit wid vines. It sot before de mantle and a -white bell hung fum de middle uv it. White cloth wuz stretched over -eveything and dey never let nobuddy walk in dat room cep in dey bare -feet fer fear dey dirty all dat cloth. - -"Miss Isabella sho picked de pianny fer Miss Joanna. A Young lady fum -anuther plantation sang two songs. All pur white ladies wore dey -pretties' white dresses wid flowers in dey hair. Miss Joanna had her -face all kivvered up wid er thin white cloth dat fell off'n her and laid -all back uv her on de floor. An de white ladies had dey white dresses a -layin over de floor but didn't none uv dem have dey faces kivvered cept -Miss Joanna, you see she wuz de bride. - -"My ole 'oman wuz rigged in white herself. Evvything in dat house wuz -fixed up extry fer da ceremony. I wo' one de men's black coats and black -pants and a white shirt wid a ves' an tie. I had on a fine pair black -shoes. Dey give all dat ter me en I kep it adder de weddin. Dat suit I -wore ter church fer de nex ten years. - -"Nex day, Saturday, come de big 'infair'. A double table wuz set up in -de dinin room. Ham, turkey en chicken wuz put on dat table dat wussent -teched. Dey jes stay dere along wid de fixins. All de victuals wuz -placed on de plates in de kitchen and fetched to de table. Five darkies -wuz kep busy refreshin de weddin diners. - -"Miss Joanna an de Yankee man what she done married de day befo dat, her -sister, de lady what sing en her maw an paw an de parson set at de table -what they calls de bridal table. Dat table had de mo-es trimmins on hit -of bows an ribbens and de like ob dat. I still sees Miss Joanna a settin -dare. She wo' her weddin dress jes zactly lak she did de day befo. She -never had her face kivvered up wuz de onliest change I seed. De weddin -dinner musta lasted two hours'. Atter dat de carriage came roun en -evvybody lined up along de front door by de cape jessamines ter throw -rice an ole shoes at de bride when she come outside de big house ter git -in de carrage. Evvybody wuz mighty spry to be done danced all de night -befo til de sun had showed red in de Eas' dat Sadday mornin. - -"Atter she gone off I jes' cud'n figger' out how Marse' had got so much -together fer dat weddin', kaise hit had'n been no time since de Yankee -so'ders had carried off ev'y thing and left us dat po'. But den sum -years has slipped by since dat. - -"When I turn back to go in de big house, I see de pea-fowls a sneakin' -off to de river rale 'shame 'kase dey never had er sign uv a tail. All -dey tail feathers wuz plucked ter make de weddin fans en ter go in de -Mistus an de gals hats. Dat sho wuz er big drove en dey is de pretties' -fowl whut dere is, an folks doesn't give dem no mine dese days." - - - - -Victoria Perry - - - *Interview with Victoria Perry* - *167 Golding St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Victoria Perry, who lives in Spartanburg, says that she was just a small -child when slavery times were "in vogue," being eight years old when the -"negroes were set free in 1865." Her mother, she said, was Rosanna -Kelly, and had lived in Virginia before she was bought by Bert Mabin, -who owned a farm near Newberry. She says that she was often awakened at -night by her mother who would be crying and praying. When she would ask -her why she was crying, her mother would tell her that her back was sore -from the beating that her master had given her that day. She would often -be told by her mother: "Some day we are going to be free; the Good Lord -won't let this thing go on all the time." Victoria said she was as -scared of her master as she was of a mad dog. She said her master used -to tie her mother to a post, strip the clothes from her back, and whip -her until the blood came. She said that her mother's clothes would stick -to her back after she had been whipped because she "bleed" so much. She -said that she wanted to cry while her mother was being whipped, but that -she was afraid that she would get whipped if she cried. - -"Whenever my master got mad at any of the niggers on the place, he would -whip them all. He would tie them to a post or to a tree, strip off their -clothes to the waist, and whip them till he got tired. He was a mean -master, and I was scared of him. I got out of his sight when he came -along. - -"My father was a white man, one of the overseers on the farm. I don't -know anything about him or who he was. I never saw him that I knowed of. -But the way Bert Mabin beat my mother was cruel. - -"One day a Yankee come by the house and told my master to get all the -colored people together; that a certain Yankee general would come by and -would tell them that they were free. So one day the niggers gathered -together at the house, and the Yankee general was there with some -soldiers. They formed a circle around the niggers and the general stood -in the middle and told us all we were free. My mother shouted, 'The Lord -be praised.' There was a general rejoicing among the niggers and then we -backed away and went home. My mother told me she knew the Lord would -answer her prayers to set her free. - -"I went hungry many days, even when I was a slave. Sometimes I would -have to pick up discarded corn on the cob, wipe the dirt off and eat it. -Sometimes during slavery, though, we had plenty to eat, but my master -would give us just anything to eat. He didn't care what we got to eat. - -"After we were set free, I went with my mother to the Gist plantation -down in Union. My mother always wanted to go back to her home at -Bradford, Virginia, but she had no way to go back except to walk. Work -was mighty scarce after slavery was over, and we had to pick up just -what we could get. My mother got a job on the Gist plantation, and -somehow I got up here to Spartanburg. - -"I married Tom Perry, and I have been here ever since, although he is -dead now. He was a brick-mason. - -"I sure was scared of my master, he treated us niggers just like we was -dogs. He had all our ages in a big Bible at the house, but I never went -there to see my age. My mother told me always to say I was eight years -old when I was set free. I am eighty now, according to that." - - - - -John Petty - - - *Interview with John Petty (87)* - *Hill Street, Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I was born on the Jim Petty place in what was then Spartanburg County. - -"Marse raised all his darkies to ride young. I no more 'members when I -learned to ride than I 'members when I come into the world. Marse had -his stables built three logs high from the outside of the lot. When the -horse step down into the lot, then I jump on his back from the third -log. So little that I never could have got on no other way without help. - -"The horse what I rid had a broad fat back and he trot so fast that -sometimes I fall off, but I hang on to the mane and swing back on his -back and he never break his gait. Then again if I didn't swing right -back up he take and stop till I git landed on his back once more. - -"One horse called Butler, farm horse named Tom, mule called Jack, slave -horse called Stoneman, then one called Cheny, one Jane, one Thicketty -and the stud-horse named Max. I allus play with him, but my folks was -ig'nant to that fact. I lay down and he jump straight up over me. I git -corn and he eat it from my hand. There was apples and salt that he loved -[HW: to eat] from my palm. He throw his fore legs plumb over my head, -and never touch me at all. All this gwine on in Max's stable. It big -enough for a dozen or more horses, 'cause it hardly ever beed that Max -git out and his stable had to be big so as he could exercise in it. So I -slip in there and we play unbeknownst to the old folks, white or black. -The door slided open. When I git tired and ready to go out then I slide -the door open. Maxie knowed that I was gwine and he had the most sense. -He watch till I git the door slid open and if he could he run by me and -jump out. I never could git him back in and he race 'round that lot till -the hands come in from the field at dark. He have a good time and git -all sweaty. - -"When he jump over me out'n the sliding door, then I hide under the feed -house till Mammy holler, 'Lawdy, fore the living, yonder is Max -a-ripping hisself plumb to he death in that lot.' Then they send for -some the mens to git him back. Atter they done that then I crawl out, -climb the lot fence and run through the field home. When I sets down Maw -'lows, 'Does you know it's real curious thing how that old stud-horse -git his door open and come out'n that stable. It must be haints creeping -'bout right here in the broad open daylight!' At that I draw up real -near the fire and say, 'Maw, does you reckon that the haints is gwine to -come and open our door some time?' - -"On t'other hand, if I be real quick a-gitting out of the stable door -before Max turn and see me, when then he couldn't git out. None of them -never knowed 'bout the good times that me and Max used to did have. And -it 'pears real strange to me now that he never did hit me with his foots -nor nothing. That horse sure 'nough did love me and that's jest all what -it is to that. I also used to slip in the extra feed house and fetch him -oats and the like 'twixt and 'tween times. He stay that fat and slick. -But it wouldn't nary lil' darky would go near that stud-horse but me. -They's all skeered to death when he git in the lot and when they seed -him in there they would run and git in the house and slam the door plumb -shut. - -"When I done come up nigh 18 or something like that, the big freedom -come 'round. Marse Jim say us could all go and see the world as we'uns -was free niggers. Us jump up and shout Glory and sing, but us never -sassed our white folks like it 'pears to be the knowledge up North. I'd -done been there and they thinks us turned our backs on our white folks, -but I never seed nothing but scalawag niggers and poor white trash -a-doing that, that I ain't. One nigger went from the plantation to the -north as they called it. - -"When he had done stayed there fer five years then he come back and -hired out to Marse Jim. He looked real lanky, but I never paid that no -mind then. He was older than I was and he always 'lowing, 'John, up in -Winston all the niggers makes five dollar a day; how come you don't go -up there and git rich like I is'. Some of the older ones laugh when he -talk to me like that and he lean to my ear and say real low, 'They's -ig'nant.' - -"One day when the crops done laid by I told Marse Jim, as I allus call -him that, I 'lows, 'Marse, dis fall I gwine north to git rich, but I -sure is gwine to bring you folks something when I comes south again'. - -"So Marse give me my money and I set out for the north. I got to -Winston-Salem and got me a job. But it was that hard a-cleaning and -a-washing all the time. 'Cause I never knowed nothing 'bout no 'baccy -and there wasn't nothing that I could turn off real quick that would -bring me no big money. It got cold and I never had no big oak logs to -burn in my fireplace and I set and shivered till I lay down. Then it -wasn't no kivver like I had at Marse Jim's. Up there they never had -'nough wood to keep no fire all night. - -"Next thing I knowed I was down with the grip and it took all the money -dat I had and then I borrowed some to pay the doctor. So I up and come -back home. It took me a long time to reach Spartanburg and from there I -struck up with the first home niggers I seed since I left in the fall. -That make me more better than I feel since the first day what I 'rive at -Winston. Long afore I 'rive at home, I knowed that I done been a fool to -ever leave the plantation. - -"When I git home all the darkies that glad to offer me the 'glad hand'. -I ax where that nigger what 'ticed me off to the north and they all 'low -that he done took the consumption and died soon after I done gone from -home. I never had no consumption, but it took me long time to git over -the grippe. I goes to old Marse and hires myself out and I never left -him no more till the Lawd took him away. - -"God knows that the slaves fared better than these free niggers is. Us -had wool clothes in the winter and us had fire and plenty wood and -plenty to eat and good houses to keep out the rain and cold. In the -summer us had cool clabber milk and bread and meat and spring water and -now us don't have all them things and us can't keep up no houses like -our log houses was kept. - -"Why, Charlie Petty, Marse's son, wore home made clothes at home jest as -us did. He was dat proud that he 'come editor or something of a -Spartanburg paper." - - - - -Sarah Poindexter - - - *Interview with Sarah Poindexter, 87 years old* - *800 Lady Street (in the rear), Columbia, S.C.* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -"My name is Sarah Poindexter. I was born in 1850, on de plantation of -Jacob Poindexter, 'bout ten miles beyond Lexington court house. These -old eyes of mine has seen a mighty lot of things here'bouts durin' de -eighty-seven years I been 'round here. - -"De first time I see Columbia, it de powerfulest lot of big wood houses -and muddy streets I ever see in my life. De Poindexter wagon dat carry -my daddy and my mammy and me to de big town, pretty often mire in -mudholes all 'long de big road from de plantation to de court house. Dat -trip was made 'bout 1857, 'cause I was seven years old when I made dat -trip. - -"Since that first trip I has lived in sight of Columbia, 'most all my -life. My daddy, my mammy and me lived on de plantation of Master -Poindexter until 1863. We might a lived there longer, if things had not -been so upset. I sho' recall de excitement in de neighborhood when -roving crowds of niggers come 'long de big road, shoutin' and singin' -dat all niggers am free. Snow was on de ground, but de spirits of de -niggers was sho' plenty hot. - -"De Poindexter plantation was one big place of excitement them days. De -slaves work some, all durin' de war, sometimes I now 'spects it was for -de sake of de missus. All of us loved her, 'cause she was so kind and -good to us. She was cryin' and worryin' all de time 'bout her manfolks, -who was away fightin' damn Yankees, she say. She sho' had plenty of -backbone or spunk, when stragglers show up, they always hungry and -always ready to take what they want to eat, until the missus come on de -scene with her trusty shotgun. It seem like de war last forever to me, -'stead of 'bout five years. To a child, Lordy, how long de years hang -on, and when we get past fifty, oh, how fast de time runs. - -"One day mammy stay in bed, too sick to go to de big house to cook, and -befo' noon, who should come to our cabin but Missus Poindexter herself, -carryin' a basket. She set it down and say to mammy: 'Lawzy Sadie, I not -leave you here to starve; then she uncover de basket and set out a big -plate of chicken and dumplin', hot biscuits, coffee, and a lot of other -good things. - -"When she gone, mammy eat some and give me some, and mammy git up next -mornin' and say: 'Sis, my white folks' missus am so good and kind, I am -goin' to work for her today, best I can'. She went but she wasn't good -well yet. Missus Poindexter many times fetch me a piece of candy or -somethin' when she go to town and back. - -"No, I never see Columbia burn in 1865, but we reckon that it was -burnin' that night in February, 1865, 'cause we smell it and de whole -east look lak some extra light is shinin' and pretty soon, some folks -come ridin' by and tell us the whole city in flames. De next time I see -it, I guess there wasn't fifty houses standin'. Chimneys standin' -'round, is about all there was where most of de city was standin' befo'. - -"My daddy was killed down 'bout Aiken, shortly after 1865. Me and mammy -come to Columbia and live in a cabin in de alley back of Senate Street, -where mammy take in washin' and cook for some white folks, who know her; -I helped her. She die in 1868, and I goes 'way with four other nigger -gals to Durham to work in a tobacco factory. Both white and nigger women -work there, but de nigger women do most of de hard work, strippin' de -leaves, stemmin' them, and placin' them to dry. White women finish them -for de trade. - -"In 1870 when I comes back to Columbia de city am acomin' back. Big -buildin's up along de streets, but most of them was made of wood. Soon -after that I gets work in a hotel, but Columbia at that time was not so -big and Durham was smaller still, although Durham had more brick houses. -I was happier on de Poindexter plantation and had fewer things to worry -'bout than when I was ascratchin' 'round for myself. - -"You ask has I been married? Yes, I marry a dandy lookin' young man, -'bout my own age, 'bout a year after I comes back to Columbia. His name, -so he say, is Sam Allen. He make fun of some other niggers who work at -one thing or another to live. One day he come to where I work and say he -bound to raise ten dollars. I hands him de cash, and he gives me a good -kiss right there befo' de folks, but I never see him again. I hear, -after he gone, that he win some more money at a gamblin' place on -Assembly street, and reckon he decided to blow 'way, while blowin' was -good. - -"De folks who know me always call me Sarah Poindexter and I got it -honestly, like other honest slaves who never know what their real name -was, and so I keeps it to the end of the road. - -"I am now livin' with a distant relative and firmly trustin' in Jesus, -as I have done for more than fifty years, that he will keep me to the -end of the trail here and greet me when I pass on 'way up Yonder'." - - - - -Sam Polite - - - *Interview with Sam Polite, age 93* - --_Mrs. Chlotilde R. Martin, Beaufort County_ - -"W'en gun shoot on Bay Pint (Bay Point) for freedom, I been sebenteen -year old wuking slabe. I born on B. Fripp Plantation on St. Helena -Island. My fadder been Sam Polite and my mudder been Mol Polite. My -fadder b'long to Mister Marion Fripp and my mudder b'long to Mister Old -B. Fripp. I don't know how mucher land, neider how much slabe he hab, -but he hab two big plantation, and many slabe--more'n a hundred slabe. - -"Slabe lib on Street--two row ob house wid two room to de house. I hab -t'ree sister name, Silvy Polite, Rose Polite and Minda Polite. Hab -brudder, too, but he die. - -"My fadder and mudder ain't marry. Slabe don't marry--dey jest lib -togedder. All slabe hab for stay on plantation in day time but w'en wuk -done, kin wisit wife on odder plantation. Hab pass, so Patrol won't git -um. - -"W'en I been leetle boy, I play en Street--shoot marble play aa'my and -sech t'ing. W'en hawn blow and mawning star rise, slabe' hab for git up -and cook. W'en day clean, dey gone to field. 'Ooman too old for wuk in -field hab for stay on Street and mind baby. Old mens follow cow. Chillen -don't wuk in field 'till twelve or t'irteen year old. You carry dinner -to field in your can and leabe um at de heading (end of row). W'en you -feel hongry, you eat. Ebery slabe hab tas' (task) to do. Sometime one -task (quarter acre), sometime two tas', and sometime t'ree. You haf for -wuk 'til tas' t'ru (through). W'en cotton done mek, you hab odder tas'. -Haffa cut cord ob maash (marsh) grass maybe. Tas' ob maash been eight -feet long and four feet high. Den sometime you haffa (have to) roll cord -ob mud in cowpen. 'Ooman haffa rake leaf from wood into cowpen. (This -was used for fertilizer.) - -"W'en you knock off wuk, you kin wuk on your land. Maybe you might hab -two or t'ree tas' ob land 'round your cabin what Maussa gib you for -plant. You kin hab chicken, maybe hawg. You kin sell aig (egg) and -chicken to store and Maussa will buy your hawg. In dat way slabe kin hab -money for buy t'ing lak fish and w'atebber he want. We don't git much -fish in slabery 'cause we nebber hab boat. But sometime you kin t'row -out net en ketch shrimp. You kin also ketch 'possum and raccoon wid your -dawg. - -"On Sattidy night ebery slabe dat wuks gits peck ob corn and pea, and -sometime meat and clabber. You nebber see any sugar neider coffee in -slabery. You has straw in your mattress but dey gib you blanket. Ebery -year in Christmas month you gits four or eider fibe yaa'd cloth 'cording -to how you is. Out ob dat, you haffa mek your clote (clothes). You wears -dat same clote till de next year. You wears hit winter en summer, Sunday -en ebery day. You don't git no coat, but dey gib you shoe. In slabery, -you don't know nutting 'bout sheets for your bed. Us nebber know nutting -'bout Santa Claus 'till Freedom, but on Christmas Maussa gib you meat -and syrup and maybe t'ree day widout wuk. Slabe wuk 'till daa'k on -Sattidy jest lak any odder day--I still does wuk 'till daa'k on Sattidy. -But on Sunday slabe don't wuk. On Fourth ob July, slabe wuk 'till twelbe -o'clock and den knocks off. On Sunday slabe kin wisit back and fort' -(forth) on de plantations. - -"Slabe don't do mucher frolic. W'en 'ooman hab baby he hab mid-wife for -nine day and sometime don't haffa wuk for month w'en baby born, Missis -send clote (clothes) from Big House. W'en nigger sick, Maussa sen' -doctor. If you been berry sick, doctor gib you calomus (calomel) or -castor oil. Sometime he gib you Dead-Shot for worms, or Puke (powder) to -mek you heave. If I jest hab a pain in muh stummick, my mudder gib me -Juse-e-moke w'at he git outen de wood." (I was unable to get any -definite idea of what 'Dead-Shot', 'Puke' or 'Juse-e-moke' were.) - -"If slabe don't do tas', de git licking wid lash on naked back. Driver -nigger gib licking, but Maussa 'most always been dere. Sometime maybe -nigger steal hawg or run 'way to de wood, den he git licking too. Can't -be no trouble 'tween white folks and nigger in slabery time for dey do -as dey choose wid you. But Maussa good to slabe If dey done day's tas' -and don't be up to no meanness. Missis don't hab nutting to do wid -nigger. - -"In slabery, nigger go to white folks chu'ch. Slabe don't know nutting -'bout baptizing. W'en nigger dead, you can't knock off wuk for berry um. -You haffa wait 'till night time to put um in de graabe (grave). You -berry um by de light ob torch. Old Man Tony Ford bin de man w'at 'tend -to funerals. Dey wasn't no nigger preacher on de plantation but dey been -people to hold praise (prayers). - -"I nebber see nigger in chain, but I shum (see them) in stock. I see -plenty nigger sell on banjo table. Dey put you up on flatform (platform) -en dey buy you. I see my uncle sell he brung one hundred dollar. 'Ooman -don't sell widout he chillen. - -"Mister Johnnie Fripp been my n'oung Maussa. W'en he chillen git marry, -Old Maussa diwide de nigger. He gib Maussa Johnnie t'irty slabe and I -been one ob dem. Maussa buy plantation on de Main (mainland). He build -big house. He hab four boy and two gal. He hab five hundred acre. He -ain't hab no oberseer, jest driver. We don't know no poor white trash on -de Main, neider on St. Helena Islant. - -"I wuk in field on Maussa Johnnie Fripp plantation. Sometime we sing -w'en us wuk. One song we sing been go lak dis: - - Go way, Ole Man - Go way, Ole Man - W'ere you bin all day - If you treat me good - I'll stay 'till de Judgment day, - But if you treat me bad, - I'll sho' to run away. - -"W'en war come, Missis tek me and two more niggers, put we and chillen -in two wagon and go to Baarnwell (Barnwell). My mudder been one ob de -nigger. We stay in Baarnwell all enduring (during) de war. My fadder he -been wid de Rebel--been wid Mr. Marion Chaplin. W'en Freedom come, -Missis didn't say nutting, she jest cry. But she gib we uh wagon and we -press (stole) a horse and us come back to St. Helena Islant. It tek -t'ree day to git home. W'en we git home, we fine de rest ob de nigger -yere been hab Freedom four year befo' we! I wuk for uh nigger name Peter -White. Muh fadder come back, and buy 20 acre ob land and we all lib -togedder. I gone to school one or two year, but I ain't larn (learn) -much. Four year after war, I buy fifteen acre ob land. Dat was dis yere -same place w'ere I libs now. After w'ile I goes to wuk in rock -(phosphate mines). I hears 'bout Ku Klux. Dey been bad people. Dey will -kill you. Been marry to four wife. Dis yere last one, he been born in -slabery too, but he don't 'members much 'bout um. He been leetle gal so -high jest big 'nuf for open gate for white folks. I hab t'ree chillen, -two libbing. I hear tell my boy William been marry to a w'ite 'ooman in -England and hab t'ree chillen. My gal Alice lib in New Yawk. Sometime -she send me money. I hab two great-gran. - -"Abraham Lincoln? He de one w'at gib we liberty for wuk for we se'f. He -come to Beaufort 'fore de war. He come as uh rail-splitter and spy -'round. He gone back w'ere he come from and say: 'You eider got to gib -dese nigger t'ree day for deyse'f or dere will be blood-shed.' And he -been right. I would be glad for shum (see him) but I nebber shum. - -"I don't know nutting 'bout dat genman Mister Davis, neider Mister -Washington--you say he been a nigger, too? - -"Wat I t'ink 'bout slabery? I t'ink it been good t'ing. It larn nigger -to wuk. If it ain't mek nigger wuk, he wouldn't do nutting but tief -(thief). You don't find nigger wuk for slabery running 'round looking -for ready money--dat been all dese yere n'oung nigger want. Me--I -slabing for self right now. I don't want nobody for mek me wuk, but -slabery larn me for wuk. I hab wuk five hundred head ob man in rock and -today ain't one can come to me and say: 'Sam Polite, you beat me out ob -one penny.' - -"Slabery done uh good t'ing for me, 'cause if he ain't larn me to wuk, -today I wouldn't know how to wuk." - - - - -William Pratt - - - *Interview with William Pratt (77)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live with my children on a farm in Newberry County. I have a good -place to live and plenty to eat. I work on the farm. I moved from -Chester County in the year 1898, the year the Spanish-American War -started. - -"I was born in Chester County in April 1860. My parents belonged to the -Pratts, but my mother belonged to the Kennedys before she married. They -went to Robert K. Kennedy and was with him as his slaves. He was a good -man but his wife was mean. She sure could 'cuss out slaves if they made -her mad. She whipped me once when I was a small boy. I couldn't do much -with her. My daddy's family belonged to the Pratts who lived seven miles -from Chester. They was good folks to slaves. They always had lots to eat -from their big garden. The white folks went hunting, and it was said -some wild turkeys was around Price's Mountain, about nine miles south of -Chester. - -"We got up before day and went to work and worked till sundown. My mammy -cooked for the family; and one day the mistress got mad at her and hit -her on the head with a coffee paddle. We worked all day on Saturdays but -didn't work on Sundays. On Christmas we had a holliday and had frolics -and big eats. - -"The patrollers once caught my daddy out at night without a pass and -whipped him a little, just for mischief. He was always allowed to go -about where he wanted to go without a pass, but next time he asked Miss -Polly for a paper to take out with him. - -"After the war the Ku Klux didn't bother us but the Red Shirts come and -wanted us to join them, that is they wanted my brother to join. He -wouldn't join though. My brother-in-law joined and wore one of the -shirts with them. He wanted Wade Hampton elected as he believed it was -best for us. He was a Democrat and said they all ought to wear them. -Once some mischief was played on a Negro who was a Republican and voted -for Chamberlain. He was given a card and told to go to a certain -merchant and show the card to him, that the merchant was a Chamberlain -man and would give him supplies. He showed the card to the merchant who -got mad and told the Negro if he didn't get out of his store he would -kill him. - -"Some of the old folks sometimes saw ghosts. A negro went to church one -night on a horse, and somebody slipped up behind and spurred the horse. -The Negro went home as fast as he could, saying that he had seen a -ghost. - -"When Freedom come, Old Man Kennedy took it well and said we was all -free, but his wife just cursed us and said, 'Damn you, you are free -now'. Old Marse Kennedy had some sons killed in the war. James and -Douglas Kennedy lived in Chester County after the war. - -"We used to dance jigs by ourself, and we danced the 'hack-back', -skipping backwards and forwards facing each other. When one danced a jig -he would sing, 'Juber this, Juber that, Juber kills a yellow cat'. My -brother used to sing a cotton picking song: 'My mammy got meat skin laid -away; grease my belly three times a day'. - -"We was Baptist and baptized by immersion. An old Baptist song that was -sung at the baptism was: 'Trouble water today, trouble water today, -trouble water today. He will save you, He will save you; come to Jesus -today, come to Jesus today, come to Jesus today. He will save you, He -will save you, just now.' - -"An old wood-chopping song which is yet sung by negroes is: - - Come on baby, let us go down; - Come on baby, let us go down; - Ten-pounder hammer stove my head; - 'nough to kill my body dead. - -"I married Rosy Kennedy, a daughter of Mose Kennedy, and had five -children, but only two are now living. I have several grandchildren -living in Chester County. I worked first on the Kennedy place. Their -daughter, Miss Julie, was good to us. She married Robert Orr of Chester. -She didn't have many beaux before because her mother was so mean nobody -wanted to come around her. Miss Julie helped at my wedding. When my wife -wasn't able to get breakfast so I could go to work, Miss Julie would -tell me to come to her house and eat. That was after her mother died. - -"I think Abraham Lincoln didn't do just right, 'cause he threw all the -negroes on the world without any way of getting along. They was -helpless. He ought to have done it gradually and give them a chance to -get on their own. I think Booker Washington is a great man and has done -great work, because he says negroes must have education and learn to -work, too, and not sit down and expect more because he is educated. - -"I joined the church because I believe there is a 'here-after', and I -wanted to learn more about Jesus and get His forgiveness for what I had -done wrong. We need Him always, because St. Matthews says the last state -of man is worse than the first." - - - - -Henry Pristell - - - *Interview with Henry Pristell, 83 year old* - *Estill, S.C.* - --_Phoebe Faucette, Hampton County_ - -'Uncle Henry' Pristell and his wife, Lucina, live in the town of Estill -in the usual type of small negro cabin. 'Uncle Henry' has a record of -his age that shows that he is eighty-three years old but he is so well -preserved that it is hard to believe. Although he is very bald, and his -closely cut hair is nearly white, he gets about so easily and talks with -such vigor he seems much younger. - -"Oh, yes ma'am, I kin tell you 'bout de war times. I seen lots of dat, -ma'am. I seen lots: I couldn't tell you all 'bout it--it been so -distressful--but I kin tell some. When de Yankees come, at first sight -of dem dey was string right 'long as far back as Luray. And string out -crossways all over everywhere. Dey was jes' as thick together as de -panels in dis fence. Dey was thousands of 'em! It was in de afternoon, -an' dey was over everywhere--over de woods, over de fields, an' through -de swamps, thick as dem weeds out dere! Dey didn't leave anything! Dey -burn de fences down, shoot de cows, de hogs, de turkeys an' ducks an -geese, de chickens an' everything. Dey didn't stay no time--didn't spend -de night--jes' pass through. I see some of 'em set a fence afire an' -stop dere an' cook. Dere was rail fences of fat pinewood in dem days. - -"For de plantation use, dey didn't burn none of de colored folks' houses -nor de old boss' house. An' as for anybody being injured when dey pass -through I didn't see none of dat. I must speak de truth, ma'am I didn't -see anything out of the way. Jes' burn things an' take things to eat. -Dere was Mr. Thomas' place, an' Mr. David Horton's place, den Mr. -Wallace' place. Dey didn't burn any of 'em. I was on de Wallace place. -My old boss been Mr. Sam Wallace. De house been up dere till 'bout -thirty year ago. Dat been a fine place. Oh, yes ma'am. De house was -built up high off de ground--as high as de top of dat room dere. I don't -know why dey didn't burn de house. Now dat's all I kin tell you 'bout -dat. In all other little doings, I didn't so much as realize it 'cause -dey been little scattering doings. I do remember dat dere was a camp at -Lawtonville for a while. Dey built a place for de prisoners, of mud. Dey -dug a pit down in de ground 'bout three feet deep, den made de walls of -mud. I'm satisfied 'bout dat. Dey didn't stay long. It was de Southern -soldiers had de camp. - -"After de war, we stay dere on de place. Stay dere for years. My father -been Abram Pristell, my mother Lucy Pristell. 'Fore de war, I been jes' -a little boy. Didn't have no special work to do. I penetrates 'round de -yard dere by de kitchen. My mother would cook for de folks. Penetrate -several days an' several night. De kitchen was off from de house. It had -a big fireplace in it. Didn't have no stove. I'll be honest wid you. I'm -satisfied 'bout dat! Had a loom in it an' a spinnin' wheel. I seen dem a -many a time spinnin' an' weavin'. Oh, yes ma'am, I'm satisfied 'bout -dat! An' dey had plenty of good things to eat. Oh, dey was well secured. -You'll never see dat no more--not on dis side! But dey had plenty of -people to feed an' to take care of. 'Course we don't want dose times no -more, 'cause while some of de boss been good to 'em some of 'em been -bad. What little time we got here we wants to take it easy an' quiet." - - - - -Junius Quattlebaum - - - *Interview with Junius Quattlebaum, 84 years old* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -Junius Quattlebaum lives with his grandson, a short distance south of -the Guignard Brick Factory, in the town of New Brookland, S.C. He is -partially capable of self-support from what work and produce he is able -to pick up around the City Market in Columbia. - -"Well, sir, you want to talk to me 'bout them good old days back yonder -in slavery time, does you? I call them good old days, 'cause I has never -had as much since. I has worked harder since de war betwixt de North and -de South than I ever worked under my marster and missus. I was just a -small boy while de war was gwine on, but I was big 'nough to see and -know what went on dere on de plantation all right. - -"I was born on Marster Jim Quattlebaum's plantation over dere in Saluda -County. He had 'bout sixty-five slaves in all, countin' de chillun. My -marster wouldn't have no overseer, 'cause he say overseers would whip -his niggers and he didn't 'low nobody, white or black, to do dat. If his -niggers had to be whipped, he was gwine to do dat hisself and then they -wouldn't be hurt much. Marster lak to see his slaves happy and singin' -'bout de place. If he ever heard any of them quarrelin' wid each other, -he would holler at them and say: 'Sing! Us ain't got no time to fuss on -dis place.' - -"Marster lak he dram, 'specially in de fall of de year when it fust git -cool. Us used to have big corn shuckin's on de plantation at night, -'long 'bout de fust of November of every year. All de corn was hauled -from de fields and put in two or three big piles in de barnyard and de -slaves would git 'round them, sing and shuck de corn. De slave women -would hang buckets of raw tar afire on staves drove in de ground 'round -de crowd, to give light. Them was sho' happy times. - -"Marster would give all de grown slaves a dram or two of pure apple -brandy, on them corn shuckin' nights, and take several smiles (drinks) -hisself. I 'members so well, one of them nights, dat marster come to de -barnyard, where us was all lit up, a singin' fit to kill hisself. Us was -s'prised to see marster settin' down wid us niggers and shuckin' corn as -fas' as us was. After a spell, him stood up and took 'nother smile, then -say: 'Pass de jug 'round and let's all take a drink.' Wid dat, one of de -niggers grab de jug of liquor and passed it 'round to all de shuckers. -Then marster say: 'Everybody sing.' Some of de niggers 'quire: 'What you -gwine to sing?' He say:--'Sing dis song: Pass 'round de bottle and we'll -all take a drink.' Some of them in de crowd 'jected to dat song, 'cause -they had 'nough liquor in them to 'ject to anything. Marster kinda -scratch he head and say: 'Well, let me git a pole and you all is gwine -to sing.' And singin' dere was, as sho' as you's born. Them niggers -'round de corn piles dat night h'isted dat song right now; dere was no -waitin' for de pole or nothin' else. They wanted to sing, bad. - -"De next mornin', after dis night I's talkin' 'bout, Miss Martha, our -good missus come 'round to de slave houses and 'quire how they all felt. -She say: 'You all can rest today and do what you want to do, 'cause -Marster Jim ain't feelin' so well dis mornin'.' She knowed what was -gwine on at de corn shuckin' de night befo' but she ain't said nothin' -'bout it. Mammy said many times dat de missus didn't lak dat whiskey -drinkin' business in nobody. She was a pure and 'ligious woman if dere -ever was one in dis world. Dere ain't no wonder dat de marster was -foolish 'bout her. Mammy say de onliest way for both white and black to -keep from lovin' Miss Martha, was to git away from her and not be so you -could see her. - -"Dis is de way our marsters treated deir slaves. I don't care what de -world does write and say 'bout slave owners; I knows dis. Us slaves dat -b'long on marster's plantation had de best folks to live and work wid I -has ever seen or knowed. Dere is no sich kindness dese days betwixt de -boss and them dat does de work. All de slaves worked pretty hard -sometimes but never too hard. They worked wid light and happy hearts, -'cause they knowed dat marster would take good care of them; give them a -plenty of good vittles, warm clothes, and warm houses to sleep in, when -de cold weather come. They sho' had nothin' to worry 'bout and no -overseer to drive them to work, lak some slaves on other plantations -had. Easy livin' is 'bout half of life to white folks but it is all of -life to most niggers. It sho' is. - -"No, sir, de patarollers (patrollers) didn't bother none of marster's -slaves. I has done told you he wouldn't let nobody, white or black, whip -his niggers, 'cause he thought too much of them and de work they could -do on de plantation when they was well and healthy. Yes, sir, I -'members, lak yistiddy, when Columbia was burned by de Yankees in 1865. -All dat happened in de month of February, I thinks. Some of de niggers -on de plantation said they seen de smoke from dat big fire, but I has my -doubts 'bout de truth of dat. - -"When Christmas come, all de slaves on de plantation had three days give -to them, to rest and enjoy themselves. Missus and de two little misses -fixed up a big Christmas tree. It was a big holly bush wid red berries -all over it. It sho' was a picture of beautifulness. I can see missus so -plain now, on Christmas mornin', a flirtin' 'round de Christmas trees, -commandin' de little misses to put de names of each slave on a package -and hang it on de tree for them. She was always pleased, smilin' and -happy, 'cause she knowed dat she was doin' somethin' dat would make -somebody else happy. She tried as hard to make de slaves happy as she -did to make her own white friends happy, it seem lak to me. Close to de -tree was a basket and in dat basket was put in a bag of candy, apples, -raisins and nuts for all de chillun. Nobody was left out. - -"Christmas mornin', marster would call all de slaves to come to de -Christmas tree. He made all de chillun set down close to de tree and de -grown slaves jined hands and make a circle 'round all. Then marster and -missus would give de chillun deir gifts, fust, then they would take -presents from de tree and call one slave at a time to step out and git -deirs. After all de presents was give out, missus would stand in de -middle of de ring and raise her hand and bow her head in silent thanks -to God. All de slaves done lak her done. After all dis, everybbdy was -happy, singin', and laughin' all over de place. Go 'way from here, white -man! Don't tell me dat wasn't de next step to heaven to de slaves on our -plantation. I sees and dreams 'bout them good old times, back yonder, to -dis day." - - - - -Transcriber's Note - - -Original spelling has been maintained; e.g. "_stob_--a short straight -piece of wood, such as a stake" (American Heritage Dictionary).--The -Works Progress Administration was renamed during 1939 as the Work -Projects Administration (WPA). - - - - - -*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY -OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: -VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 *** - - - - -A Word from Project Gutenberg - - -We will update this book if we find any errors. - -This book can be found under: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36022 - -Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no one -owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation (and -you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without permission -and without paying copyright royalties. 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You may copy it, give it away or -re-use it under the terms of the <a class="reference internal pginternal" href="#project-gutenberg-license">Project Gutenberg License</a> -included with this eBook or online at -<a class="reference external" href="http://www.gutenberg.org/license">http://www.gutenberg.org/license</a>.</p> -<div class="vspace" style="height: 1em"> -</div> -<div class="container" id="pg-machine-header"> -<p class="noindent pfirst">Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3</p> -<p class="noindent pnext">Author: Work Projects Administration</p> -<p class="noindent pnext">Release Date: May 04, 2011 [EBook #36022]</p> -<p class="noindent pnext">Language: English</p> -<p class="noindent pnext">Character set encoding: UTF-8</p> -<div class="vspace" style="height: 1em"> -</div> -<p class="noindent pnext" id="pg-start-line">*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 ***</p> </div> <div class="vspace" style="height: 4em"> </div> @@ -7500,340 +7480,6 @@ during 1939 as the Work Projects Administration (WPA).</p> </div> <div class="vspace" style="height: 5em"> </div> -<p class="pfirst" id="pg-end-line">*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 ***</p> -<div class="backmatter"> -</div> -</div> -<div class="level-2 section" id="a-word-from-project-gutenberg"> -<span id="pg-footer"/><h2 class="level-2 pfirst section-title title">A Word from Project Gutenberg</h2> -<p class="pfirst">We will update this book if we find any errors.</p> -<p class="pnext">This book can be found under: <a class="reference external" href="http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36022">http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36022</a></p> -<p class="pnext">Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no one -owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation (and -you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without -permission and without paying copyright royalties. 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-
-.. meta::
- :PG.Id: 36022
- :PG.Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3
- :PG.Released: 2011-05-04
- :PG.Rights: Public Domain
- :PG.Producer: the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at http://www.pgdp.net
- :DC.Creator: Work Projects Administration
- :DC.Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3
- :DC.Language: en
- :DC.Created: 1941
-
-=================================
-Slave Narratives
-=================================
-
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-Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3
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-
-.. _pg-header:
-
-.. container::
- :class: pgheader
-
- .. style:: paragraph
- :class: noindent
-
- This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with
- almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or
- re-use it under the terms of the `Project Gutenberg License`_
- included with this eBook or online at
- http://www.gutenberg.org/license.
-
-
-
- |
-
- .. _pg-machine-header:
-
- .. container::
-
- Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3
-
- Author: Work Projects Administration
-
- Release Date: May 04, 2011 [EBook #36022]
-
- Language: English
-
- Character set encoding: UTF-8
-
- |
-
- .. _pg-start-line:
-
- \*\*\* START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 \*\*\*
-
- |
- |
- |
- |
-
- .. _pg-produced-by:
-
- .. container::
-
- Produced by the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at http://www.pgdp.net.
-
- |
-
-
-
-
-.. class:: center larger
-
- SLAVE NARRATIVES
-
- |
- |
-
-.. class:: center
-
- *A Folk History of Slavery in the United States*
-
- *From Interviews with Former Slaves*
-
- |
- |
-
-.. class:: center smaller
-
- TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY
-
- THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT
-
- 1936-1938
-
- ASSEMBLED BY
-
- THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT
-
- WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION
-
- FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
-
- SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
-
- |
- |
-
-.. class:: center
-
- *Illustrated with Photographs*
-
- WASHINGTON 1941
-
- |
- |
-
-.. class:: center larger
-
- VOLUME XIV
-
- SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES—PART 3
-
- |
- |
-
-.. class:: center smaller
-
- Prepared by the Federal Writers' Project of
-
- the Works Progress Administration
-
- for the State of Alabama
-
- [HW:] Handwritten note
-
- [TR:] Transcriber's note
-
-.. Contents:: INFORMANTS
- :backlinks: entry
- :depth: 1
-
-Adeline Jackson
-===============
-
- | **Interview with Adeline Jackson, 88 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"I was born four miles southwest of where I is now, on de other side of
-Woodward Station. I was a slave of old Marster John Mobley, de richest
-man, de larges' land owner, and wid more niggers than any other white
-man in de county. He was de seventh son of de seventh son, so he
-allowed, and you knows dat's a sign of a big family, lots of cows,
-mules, horses, money, chillun and everything dat's worth havin'. He had
-a good wife too; dis de way he got her, he say. She de daughter of old
-Maj. Andy McLean, who got a body full of bullets in de Revolution; he
-didn't want Katie to marry Marster John. Marster John git on a mule and
-ride up in de night. Miss Katie runned out, jump up behin' him, run away
-and marry Marster John. They had de same birthday, March 27th, but
-Marster John two years older than Miss Katie. Dat day was looked to,
-same as Christmas, every year dat come. Big times then, I tell you!
-
-"My mistress had long hair, techin' de floor and could dance, so Marster
-John said, wid a glass of water on top of her head. Marster John got
-'ligion and went all de way lak de jailer in de Bible. All de house
-jined wid him and mos' of de slaves. It was Baptist and he built a
-spankin' good church buildin' down de road, all out of his own money,
-and de cemetery dere yet. He called it 'Fellowship.' Some fine
-tombstones in dere yet. De finest cost two thousand dollars, dat's his
-daughter Nancy's tomb. Marster John and my old mistress buried in dere.
-
-"When my younges' mistress, name Marion Rebecca, married her second
-cousin, Marster Edward P. Mobley, I was give to her and went wid them to
-de June place. It was called dat because old Doctor June built it and
-sold it to Marster Ed. I nussed her first chillun: Edward, Moses Hill,
-John and Katie. It was a large, two-story frame house, with chimneys at
-each gable end. Marster Edward got to be as rich as old marster; he
-owned de June place, de Rochelle plantation, de Peay place and de
-Roebuck place. Yes sir, course us had overseers for so many slaves and
-plantations. I 'member Mr. Oze Brown, Mr. Neely and Mr. Tim Gladney. In
-course of time I was took off de nussin' and put to de field. I drapped
-cotton seed, hoed some, and picked cotton.
-
-"I don't 'member no poor buckra, outside de overeeers, 'cept a Mr. Reed
-dat lived down on wateroe, passin' our house sometime. He was a
-Godforsaken lookin' man dat marster or mistress always give somethin'.
-
-"Our neighbors was de Pearys, de Durhams, de Picketts, de Barbers and
-Boulwares. Doctor Henry Gibson was our doctor. All dese folks kep' a
-pack of hounds to run deer and foxes. Yes, I has eat many pieces of
-deer. Good? I wouldn't fool you, taste it and you'll hunger for it ever
-afterward.
-
-"Yes sir, at certain times we worked long and hard, and you had to be
-'ticular. De only whipping I got was for chopping down a good corn stalk
-near a stump in a new ground. Marster never sold a slave but swaps were
-made wid kin people to advantage, slaves' wives and husbands sometimes.
-I never learned to read or write. I went to White Poplar Springs Church,
-de Baptist church my mistress 'tended. De preacher was Mr. Cartledge. He
-allowed Miss Marion was de flower of his flock.
-
-"Slaves lived in quarters, a stretch of small houses off from de White
-House. Patrollers often come to search for stray slaves; wouldn't take
-your word for it. They would search de house. If they ketch one widout
-a pass, they whipped him. We got most our outside news Sunday at
-church. When farm work was not pressing, we got all of Saturday to clean
-up 'round de houses, and wash and iron our clothes.
-
-"Everything lively at Christmas time, dances wid fiddles, pattin' and
-stick rattlin', but when I jined de church, I quit dancin'.
-
-"After de war, a man came along on a red horse; he was dressed in a blue
-uniform and told us we was free. De Yankees dat I 'members was not
-gentlefolks. They stole everything they could take and de meanest thing
-I ever see was shoats they half killed, cut off de hams, and left de
-other parts quiverin' on de ground.
-
-"I married Mose Jackson, after freedom, and had a boy, Henry. Last I
-heard, he was at Shelby, North Carolina. We had a daughter, Mary, she
-married Eph Brown. She had ten chillun, many gran' chillun, they's my
-great-gran' chillun. My mistress was a good Christian woman, she give me
-a big supper when I was married. Her house, durin' de war, always had
-some sick or wounded soldier. I 'member her brother, Zed, come home wid
-a leg gone. Her cousin, Theodore, was dere wid a part of his jaw gone.
-My mistress could play de piano and sing de old songs. I 'members
-Marster Theodore had trouble wid de words. Dere was a song called
-'Jaunita', 'bout a fountain. Marster Theodore would try hard, but would
-say, everytime, 'Jawneeta', and de folks would laugh but mistress never
-would crack a smile but just go on wid another song. I thinks everybody
-should jine de church and then live right. Have prayers in de family
-befo' gitting in de bed. It would have good change, 'specially in de
-towns I thinks.
-
-"Yes, women in family way worked up to near de time, but guess Doctor
-Gibson knowed his business. Just befo' de time, they was took out and
-put in de cardin' and spinnin' rooms.
-
-"Yes, I see folks put irons in de fire and some throw a big chunk of
-fire into de yard to make de screech owl stop his scary sounds.
-
-"Befo' I forgits, Marster Edward bought a slave in Tennessee just
-'cause he could play de fiddle. Named him 'Tennessee Ike' and he played
-'long wid Ben Murray, another fiddler. Sometime all of us would be called
-up into de front yard to play and dance and sing for Miss Marion, de chillun
-and visitors. I was much happier them days than now. Maybe it won't be
-so bad when I gits my old age pension."
-
-Cordelia Anderson Jackson
-=========================
-
- | **Interview with Cordelia Anderson Jackson, 78 years old**
- | **157 Kings St. Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-Cordelia lives in a small shack with some friends. She is quite an actor
-and a tireless teller of yarns. She still ties her head up in a white
-rag and has large eyes set far apart and a very flat nose. She is ebony
-colored. She is a firm believer in her religion and she enjoys shouting
-on any occasion for joy or for sorrow.
-
-"White folks tells stories 'bout 'ligion. Dey tells stories 'bout it
-kaise dey's 'fraid of it. I stays independent of what white folks tells
-me when I shouts. De Spirit moves me every day, dat's how I stays in.
-White folks don't feel sech as I does; so dey stays out. Can't serve God
-all de time; allus something getting in de way. Dey tries me and den I
-suddenly draps back to serving de Holy God. Never does it make no
-difference how I's tossed about. Jesus, He comes and saves me everytime.
-I's had a hard time, but I's blessed now—no mo' mountains.
-
-"Ever since I a child I is liked white folks. Dey's good and dey does
-not know why dey tells stories 'bout Jesus. I got a heap mo' in slavery
-dan I does now; was sorry when Freedom got here. I 'specks I is nigh to
-a hundred, but dat's so old. I jest calls myself any whars twixt
-seventy-five and a hundred. I recollects slavery, though. Ma was
-Charlotte Anderson and she lived in Union County wid de Tuckers, jest
-across from de Richards Quarter.
-
-"Biggest sight I ever see'd was dat balloon when it come down on Pea
-Ridge. De man in it everybody addressed as Professor (Prof. Lowe—1861).
-He let uncle Jerry git in it. Mr. McKissick helped uncle Jerry up in it.
-It was de first balloon ever come to Union county, and 'til dis day I
-don't like no balloons.
-
-"Airplanes jest tickles, I cannot tell you how come, but dey jest does.
-I went out dar (throwing her arm in the direction of the landing field)
-and see'd 'em light. Dressed-up white folks hopped down out'n it from a
-little do' dat a man wid leg'uns and a cap on opened. Thing gwine on wid
-lots of burring and all like dat. When dem folks got out, some mo'
-clam'ned in. Dat same man opened de do', shot (shut) it, and de plane
-tuck off. White folks 'lowed dat it was gwine to 'lanta, Ga.
-
-"Right dar I 'low'd, when I goes up like dat, I sho ain't gwine up wid
-no man—I'se gwine up wid Jesus.
-
-"Dat white woman [HW: Amelia Earhardt] went up and ain't nobody found
-her yet and it been two months. Lawd, she looking fer de world's end.
-God don't mean fer womens to do nothing like dat. Womens is stumbling
-blocks at times.
-
-"I got a boy dat been through school. He stays off, but he treats me so
-good and talks to me like white folks does; so I calls him, 'white
-child'. I 'longs to de church club. He tries to larn me to talk proper
-when I goes out to dem meetings, but I fergits how befo' I reaches de
-meeting. Us named it de 'Mothers' Club'. 'White child' pays fer me to
-'long dar, and when I is down wid spells, dey nurses me. 'White child'
-pays fer my 'onsurance' so dat I does not have no worriment to aggravate
-my soul.
-
-"White child birthed one Sunday morning jest a year atter de big
-earthquake. It was also Christmas morning, kaise my child drapped a year
-to de day atter dat earthquake and I feared dat he was not gwinter have
-no sense. But My God, how he can read!
-
-"One night, Aug. 30th, our house started rocking. We thought a panther
-was a-rocking it, kaise my old man had see'd one. He run out wid a gun
-and went to de wood pile; den he hollered to me and said, 'Delia, come
-out here, de whole world is shaking'. God sho showed his power dat
-night. Ever since dat I been fixed wid God. It won't long atter dat, us
-heard a noise in our other room. Old man went in dar and see'd a panther
-climbing up fer our rations. He grabbed his gun from over de do' and
-shot dat panther in de corner.
-
-"I used to think dat niggers was fools dat called me a nigger. I go and
-tell Miss Nellie Tucker. She 'low, 'No, you ain't no nigger when other
-niggers calls you one.' Marse William whistle like a partridge; den Miss
-Nellie play her pianny. I dance and Marse send fer me a sugar and butter
-biscuit. Marse git his banjo and he pick it fer me to sing 'Oh, Bob
-white, is your wheat ripe? No, no, not quite.' Dat when I lived as a
-little gal on Marse William's home tract, called Musgrove Tract.
-
-VISION: "Was traveling in a gold chariot to Heaven. De overseer had come
-to bleed me, but I went up. Something say to look back and see whar you
-been. I looked back and said, 'Lawd, take me whar no rent won't bother
-me!' Lawd answer, 'Do not pray dat way. Pray fer Him to do His will'.
-Den I axed de Lawd whar is I. He say, 'Did you look down on dem
-chimneys?' Den I see'd dat I was in de chariot wid water all under me.
-It looked like de sky.
-
-"To-day, I am so glad to walk about in Jesus' care. I wish people could
-see my faith. I am a Christian."
-
-Agnes James
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Mom Agnes James, 80 years old**
- | **Claussens, S.C.**
- | —*Annie Ruth Davis*
-
-"Yes'um, I used to live in slavery time, but de Lord above know, I sho
-don' really recollect nothin much to tell you 'bout slavery time. I don'
-know exactly how old I is. Think I 'bout 80 some odd. Think dat 'bout de
-age Bubba Gregg say I is. I tell you, I was so chillunfied in slavery
-time, I ain' had no time to study 'bout no age. I say, I was so
-chillunfied. Yes'um, dat it. Dat somethin dat I ought to had ax my
-grandmammy 'bout how old I is, so den I might could call it up to you
-right sharp. Oh, I wishes now I had ax my grandmammy dat word fore she
-die.
-
-"Us belong to Mr. Hector Cameron fore freedom come here. Right down dere
-to Salem Church, dat whe' I was born. You hear talk of Miss Janie Little
-over dere to Marion, ain' you? Dat who used to be my mittie in dem days.
-Yes, mam, boss had pick me out to tend to Miss Janie. You see, he give
-all his daughters one of us to have a care for dem.
-
-"My white folks, dey had a right smart of colored people dey own en far
-as I can reckon, dey been spend mighty good treatment to dem all de
-time. I know 'bout old Miss used to love to feed us, my mercy! White
-folks would send for all us chillun to go up to de big house en get
-somethin to eat twixt meals. Yes'um, dey had a colored people quarter
-dat been settin way back up on de hill. Had to have a quarter 'cause dat
-whe' us been stay all de time old Miss won' stuffin' somethin down we
-mouth. I remember, dere used to was de most pretty flowers in de lane
-gwine through dem woods from us house right up to old Massa's yard en my
-Lord, honey, I did love to be de first one long dere on a mornin to see
-could I find a blossom to fetch to old Miss. Look like old Miss would be
-so please to see my granny marchin all we chillun up dat path 'cause when
-we would go dere on a mornin, she would set right down on de steps en
-talk wid us. Would set dere in listen to see could all us say dat prayin
-blessin she had learned us to speak fore she would hand us anything to
-eat. Den she would give us everyone a spoonful of dis here worm cure.
-Great Jerusalem! Miss would make dat herself out dese black lookin seed
-mixed up in molasses. I remember, she would bring a big bowl of dat out
-dere en would make Pickle tote it round for her while she put it in us
-mouth. Yes, mam, Miss would give us all a spoonful of dat every mornin
-en den she would ax us de next mornin if any us had any worms. No, mam,
-she never didn' give us any other kind of medicine as I can remember.
-Just give us dat en den feed us some milk en bread. Dat all she give us,
-but I tell you, I was as proud of dat milk en bread as I is of de
-rations I get dese days 'cause I never know no different den. No'um,
-didn' nobody eat den like dey do now. All de people would make dey own
-gardens in dem days en would fix soup en fry meat. I used to been so
-glad to get me a 'tatoe en a piece of bread. I thought I was eatin
-cake.
-
-"I never didn' work in no field or nothin like dat no time. When I was a
-little small girl, I would stay dere home en play 'bout de yard en nurse
-my mammy's baby while she was workin in de field. Yes'um, old Massa
-would give her task to pick cotton en hoe cotton en pick peas or
-somethin another like dat 'bout all de time. Don' know whe' she work all
-day or no, but I know she would always let up at 12 o'clock en come to
-de house to get her somethin to eat. Can remember dat good as anything.
-Oh, she would have to cook herself when she come home bein' dere wasn'
-none of we chillun big enough to cook nothin. I recollects, I used to
-get chips en pile dem up for her 'cause she always been tell me, if de
-baby go to sleep, to get up some chips en put dem on de steps for her to
-hurry en start fire wid. She would cook us meat en bread like corn
-hoecake en fry meat de most of de time. Den another time, she would bake
-a big round loaf like dat en break it in two en give me half en my
-brother Charlie de other part. Would lay a piece of meat on de top of
-it. No'um, I reckon 'bout all de people used to cook in de chimney. I
-know my mammy used to cook in de chimney en I don' think she thought
-nothin 'bout no stove in dem days. Cose if she did, I know we chillun
-didn' get it.
-
-"Yes, Lord, I been married 'bout 16 years fore my husband died. Yes'um, I
-had a tolerable good size weddin over dere to Mr. Elija Gregg's house.
-Been married in a white dress trimmed wid blue ribbon. You is hear talk
-of a cream of tartar dress, ain' you? Oh, my Lord of mercy, dere was a
-crowd of people dere dat night to get dey eye full en deyself full, too,
-I say. Yes'um, I had four waiters in my ceremony. En had cake en rice en
-'tatoe custard en a yearlin pig wid a red apple stuck in he mouth, so
-dey tell me. Dat what was for de refreshments. De old man Charles
-Reynolds, he was de preacher dere dat night en, say, he eat so much pig
-till you could see pig in he face, so dey tell me. Cose I never had no
-mind to know nothin 'bout it. Oh, yes Lord, I got seven chillun dat come
-here fore my old man die, but dey all done gone en get married en left
-me by myself. Dat how-come I stays over here wid Miss Bertie 'cause she
-ain' have nobody to stay wid her neither en I tries to help her out
-somehow. Yes'um, me en Miss Bertie does rest right well together, I say.
-
-"Oh, great jumpin mercy, de shake! I sho knows all 'bout dat 'cause I was
-stayin right up dere to old man Elija Gregg's place den. I tellin you,
-it was a time, honey. I was gwine down side de road to prayer meetin dat
-night wid my baby in my arms en dere come such a roarin' en a rockin' in
-de elements till I thought my baby had got out my arms en I was just a
-hollerin for somebody to come en help me get my baby back. Been so crazy
-dat I was lookin in all de ditches for my baby. My husband, he come a
-runnin to see what ailed me en say, 'Agnes, what de matter wid you?' I
-say, 'My baby lost. Do Lord, whe' my baby gone?' He say, 'Agnes, you
-must be ailin in de head. Dere de baby on your arm.' Yes'um, I was crazy
-'cause I had my baby in my arms en didn' know it. Oh, de people done a
-piece of hollerin dat night. Everybody was a hollerin en a prayin. I
-hear talk three or four of dem got converted in de spirit dat night. I
-tellin you, it been a long time fore I got over dat thing, too, 'cause I
-was scared most to death.
-
-"No'um, I never didn' believe in nothin like dat. Never didn' believe in
-no conjurin. Don' care what dey say 'bout it, I never didn' believe in
-it. Yes'um, I hear people talk 'bout somebody had hurt dem, but dey make
-a wrong mistake to say somebody do somethin to dem. Ain' nobody but de
-Lord do nothin, I say. I know dere ain' nobody never do nothin to me.
-Hear people say dey wear money round dey ankle to keep folks from hurtin
-dem, but ain' nobody never bother me, I tell dem. If dey live right,
-ain' nobody gwine trouble dem neither. No, Lord, ain' nobody never speak
-no harm word to me en I ain' got no mind to harness up myself.
-
-"Well, it just seems like de world growin wilder for de young folks. Dey
-don' never think 'bout nothin 'cept gwine right head first all de time. I
-know when I been comin up, I never see no such livin like de people
-makin dese days. Dey just gwine head over heels to de worser. Don' never
-think near a day dey got to stop some of dese days.
-
-"I tell de truth, it ain' make no difference which time I think de best
-time to live in. Everything went well en good wid me in de old days en
-everything still gwine dat way, Thank de Lord, too."
-
-Fred James
-==========
-
- | **Interview with Fred James (81)**
- | **Newberry, S.C. RFD**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"Yes, I 'member slavery time and de war. I was about 7 or 8 years old. I
-belonged to Marse Tom Price. My father, John James, belonged to Madison
-Brooks and my mammy belonged to Tom Price. When dey married dey lived
-wid Madison Brooks awhile, but dey was wid Tom Price when I was a boy.
-
-"Of cose I 'member de war. Us chaps, both niggers and white, was made to
-go up-stairs in de big house and look out de window to see de soldiers
-when dey come. We heard de Yankees marching befo' dey got dar, but dey
-come from de other side of de house, facing south towards Caldwells, and
-we didn't see dem marching in. Dey stopped at our house and looked
-around and asked if marster was at home. We told him dat he wasn't dar.
-We was eating apples, and dey asked us whar we got 'em. We told dem dat
-we got de apples on de place, and dey asked us for some. We give dem
-some apples; den dey left. Marse had carried his fine stock about a mile
-off in de woods so de soldiers couldn't find dem; but we didn't tell de
-soldiers.
-
-"We lived in a little log cabin made wid mud between de logs, dat was de
-kind of houses Marse had for his slaves. We slept on wood beds wid ropes
-stretched tight across in place of slats. Dis held our straw mattress.
-
-"My father's daddy come from Africa. His name was Emmanuel James. Atter
-freedom come he give me a little yearling. We wasn't allowed to have
-anything befo' freedom come; and we wasn't allowed to learn to read and
-write. Dey whipped us if dey caught us wid a book trying to read or
-write. Ma said dey cut off a hand if dey caught you.
-
-"We raised hogs, sheep, goats, cows and plenty chickens; raised
-everything at home, and had a good garden with plenty vegetables. Dem
-cows and hogs and other cattle were branded and allowed to graze around
-in bottoms of de lowlands whar dar was no fence.
-
-"My clothes was made from yarn spun by my mammy, and she made my
-clothes, too. Marse had my mammy to spin and weave for all de slaves on
-de place. But marse and mistress was good to us. He had a nigger
-overseer who sometimes brought a nigger to marse when he misbehaved; den
-marse would have de nigger overseer to whip him. He had 8 to 10 slaves
-all de time.
-
-"Some slaves dat lived on places close to us would run off sometimes and
-hide in de woods, and live dar in a den which dey dug. At night they
-would go out and hunt food, like hogs; den kill 'em at night and dress
-'em. Most of de day dey would stay in de den.
-
-"I 'member when freedom come, old marse said, 'You is all free, but you
-can work on and make dis crop of corn and cotton; den I will divide up
-wid you when Christmas comes.' Dey all worked, and when Christmas come,
-marse told us we could get on and shuffle for ourselves, and he didn't
-give us anything. We had to steal corn out of de crib. We prized de ears
-out between de cracks and took dem home and parched dem. We would have
-to eat on dese for several days.
-
-"We had to work, all day, sun up to dark, and never had Saturday
-afternoons off anytime. My mammy had to wash clothes on Saturday nights
-for us to wear on Sundays.
-
-"We chaps played marbles most all de time. Marse used to try to scare us
-by telling us dar was spooks. Some of de old folks did believe in
-spooks, but I don't know much about dem. We never used much medicine den
-but quinine. Folks had lots of chills den, but dey never had any kind of
-strokes or things like dat as dey do dese days.
-
-"We had to get a pass from marse if we went out. If de patrollers caught
-us widout a pass dey would whip us.
-
-"Right atter de war de Ku Klux started. I 'member dem when dey would
-march up and down de road. Dey marched most at night, and we could hear
-de horses for a long distance as deir feet struck de ground.
-
-"I married Nellie Wilson, and had 12 children. I got now 6 children; my
-wife is dead. I got five grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren.
-
-"I think Abraham Lincoln and Jeff Davis was good men in deir way, as dey
-thought. Booker T. Washington is a great man, and he is done lots of
-good for de niggers. I think slavery was good in some ways and bad in
-others. I was better off den dan I am now.
-
-"I jined de church when I was 20 years old, because it was de law—to
-trust in de Lawd, you got to belong to de church.
-
-"I member something 'bout 40 acres of land and a mule dat de slaves
-would get, but never come anything about it. When freedom come most of
-de slaves hired out as wage hands, cutting wood and working on farms or
-any odd jobs dey could get. Dar was lots of new ground, and many of de
-niggers got work clearing it up.
-
-"We didn't get any money in slavery time, but got plenty to eat; and
-atter de war, we got a little money and a little to eat. I 'member dat
-old Mr. Brown hired me out once about 45 years ago at 30¢ a day and my
-meals. I think de younger generation ain't so good. Dey have deir own
-way and don't respect old folks. Dat's de way it is wid both whites and
-blacks."
-
-Isiah Jeffries
-==============
-
- | **Interview with Isiah Jefferies, (age 86)**
- | **Gaffney, S.C. Rt. 6.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"I is what is known as a outside child. My Ma went to Hamlet. I lived on
-de Jefferies plantation, below Wilkinsville in Cherokee County. My
-father was Henry Jefferies. My mother was Jane Jefferies. My mother's
-husband was named Ned. Before her marriage she was a Davis. She was sold
-in slavery to Henry Jefferies. I allus lived with my mother, and Ned was
-as good to me as he was to his own chillun. My mother had three outside
-chilluns, and we each had a different father. Atter she married Ned; den
-he jest come to be our Pa, dat is he let her give us his name. She and
-Ned had four chillun.
-
-"My first wife is dead and my second wife is named Alice Jefferies. I
-got one child by my first wife, and I ain't got no outside chilluns. Dat
-works out bad, at best. None of my folks is living. All of dem is done
-dead now; jest me, my wife and my sister's daughter, Emma, who is grown
-now. Her Pa and her Ma took and went crazy befo' dey died. Both of dem
-died in de asylum. We took Emma, and she ain't jest 'zactly right; but
-she ain't no bother to us.
-
-"First thing I had to do as a child was to mind my Ma's other chilluns
-as I was de first outside one dat she had. Dis I did until I was about
-twelve years old. My Ma and Ned was working one day and I was minding
-her chilluns as usual when I looked up and seed de top of our house on
-fire. I hollered and dey come running from de field. De other hands come
-with dem kaise I made such a noise hollering. Soon de big folks got de
-fire out. Atter dat, Marse Henry had me to leave de house and go to work
-fer him.
-
-"It was spring and I started in chopping cotton. 'Peers dat I got on
-pretty well, and dat de overseer liked me from de start. From dar on I
-was broke into field work of all kinds and den I did work around de lot
-as well. It was not long befo' everybody started calling me 'uncle
-Zery', why—I did not know; but anyway dat name still sticks to me by
-dem dat knows me well. My grandpa never called me dat, kaise I was named
-atter him, and he too proud of dat fact to call me any nickname. I
-stayed wid him at his house lots atter I started working fer de marster,
-kaise he showed me how to do things. I worked fer him to git my first
-money and he would give me a quarter fer a whole day's work. Dat made me
-feel good and I thought I was a man kaise I made a quarter. In dem days
-a quarter was a lot of money. I spent it fer chawing tobacco, and dat
-made me sick at first. Dats all men had to spend money fer in dem days.
-Everything was give you on de plantation and you did not need much
-money. Sometimes we cooked out in de field and I have cooked bread in de
-field in a lid.
-
-"Ma teached me how to cook befo' I was twelve years old. We had good
-things to eat den; more dan my chilluns has dese times. All de slaves
-had dere gardens on my marster's plantation. He made dem do it, and dey
-liked it. Niggers do not seem to take no pains wid gardens now. Land
-ain't soft and mellow like it used to be. In cold weather we had to bank
-out 'taters, rutabegas, beets, carrots and pumpkins. De pumpkins and
-carrots was fer de hogs and cows.
-
-"In warm weather we had cotton clothes and in cold weather we had woolen
-clothes dat our marster had made fer us by de old ladies on de
-plantation. But we did go barefooted all winter until we was grown and
-married. We had all de wood we wanted fer fire. We kept fire all day
-and all night. We sot by de fire in winter and popped corn, parched
-pinders [HW: peanuts] and roasted corn ears.
-
-"Marster and Mistress had six chilluns. Her name was Ellen and her house
-was three stories high. Dere overseers allus lived wid dem. Dere was a
-lot of slaves and dey all loved de white folks. De whole plantation was
-allus up at sunup. But we did not work very late. I remember de
-Patter-rollers, de Ku Klux and de Yankees. Niggers dreaded all three.
-Dere was no jail fer us; de Patter-rollers kept us straight.
-
-"When I got to be a big boy, my Ma got religion at de Camp meeting at
-El-Bethel. She shouted and sung fer three days, going all over de
-plantation and de neighboring ones, inviting her friends to come to see
-her baptized and shouting and praying fer dem. She went around to all de
-people dat she had done wrong and begged dere forgiveness. She sent fer
-dem dat had wronged her, and told dem dat she was born again and a new
-woman, and dat she would forgive dem. She wanted everybody dat was not
-saved to go up wid her.
-
-"De white folks was baptized in de pool first, and den dere darkies.
-When de darkies time come, dey sung and shouted so loud dat de
-Patter-rollers come from somewhar, but Marster and Missus made dem go
-away and let us shout and rejoice to de fullest. Missus had all her
-darkies to wear white calico in de pool dat was a-gwine in fer
-baptizing. In de sewing-room she had calico robes made fer
-everybody. My Ma took me wid her to see her baptized, and I was so happy
-dat I sung and shouted wid her. All de niggers jined in singing. De
-white folks stayed and saw us baptize our folks, and dey liked our
-singing."
-
-Thomas Jefferson
-================
-
- | **Interview with Thomas Jefferson, 102 years old**
- | **Shiloh Church, Highway 29**
- | —*Ellie S. Rice, Anderson, S.C.*
-
-It is not often that a person 102 years old is seen doing manual labor,
-and especially as hard a job as picking cotton. Yet that is just what
-Thomas Jefferson was doing, who, as he himself stated, is, "102 years
-and 18 days old today." Asked why he was doing this, he replied, "Just
-to take a little exercise."
-
-Thomas lives with his daughter, Florence Humphreys, on a small farm, out
-near Shiloh Church, on Highway 29. Until recently, he slept in a little
-shack nearby, taking his meals with his daughter. He is too feeble to
-live alone now, however.
-
-Thomas Jefferson was born on the farm of Mr. Jenkins Hammond, on the old
-Hammond place, out on the Williamston road, on November 1, 1834. When
-Mr. Hammond's daughter, Mary Amanda Pauline, married Elias John Earle,
-son of Samuel Girard Earle, who was one of the very first citizens of
-Anderson county, Mr. Hammond gave her, as a wedding gift, Thomas
-Jefferson's mother and five children, of which Thomas was one. And here
-he lived with the Earles on "Evergreen" plantation, for many, many
-years.
-
-During the War Between the States, Mr. Earle operated a corn and flour
-mill, and Thomas Jefferson was his miller. Asked if he remembered this,
-he replied, "Well, I do remember it. I remember one time we worked all
-night Saturday night, all day Sunday and Sunday night, and Monday
-morning had ten barrels of flour to send the Confederate army."
-
-Shiloh (Baptist) Church, nearby, Thomas said, was being constructed at
-the time the war started, and was not finished until after the war was
-over. The first person buried in the Shiloh graveyard was Elijah
-Herring, who was in the Confederate army and became ill and died, and
-was brought home to be buried.
-
-When Samuel Girard Earle died in 1848, and his wife in 1865, they were
-buried under a large apple tree at "Evergreen" plantation. Later, their
-bodies were removed to the Shiloh graveyard, by their grand-daughter,
-Miss Betty Earle. Thomas says he helped to move and rebury the bodies.
-
-Thomas was at one time a member of Shiloh, but is now a member of the
-Mt. Sinai colored church.
-
-Thomas is remarkably well for a person one hundred and two years old.
-His eyes are dim, his steps tottering, but his hearing is good and his
-mind is as clear as it ever was. Asked about his appetite, he said, "I
-eat anything I can get, I can eat anything." Many people much younger
-than he is, and certainly with more money than he has, would envy him
-for his splendid digestion.
-
-Thomas has been on the relief rolls now for several years. It is a
-peculiar pleasure for Mrs. A.M. Mitchell, County Director of Temporary
-State Department of Public Welfare, to look after Thomas personally,
-because her grandmother was the bride to whom he was given, with his
-mother and brothers and sisters. The old man eagerly anticipates Mrs.
-Mitchell's coming each month, to bring his check and to look after his
-comfort. He is very humble and exceedingly grateful for everything done
-for him, and says he is expecting to live many more years, with the good
-care he is getting.
-
-Henry D. Jenkins
-================
-
- | **Interview with Henry D. Jenkins, 87 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-Henry D. Jenkins lives in a four-room frame house, which he owns.
-His wife, two single daughters, his son and his son's wife and three
-small children live with him. The house is constructed on a tract of
-land containing four hundred and eighty (480) acres, which Henry also
-owns.
-
-He does not suffer with an inferiority complex. He is self-reliant and
-thrifty, with a pardonable pride in his farm and his rise from slavery
-to a position of respectibility as a church member, citizen, and tax
-payer. He is well preserved physically, for his age, 87 years, alert in
-his movements and animated in conversation.
-
-His plantation and home is in the south western part of Fairfield
-County, six or seven hundred yards east of State highway #215.
-
-"Yes sir, tho' I am a 'spectable colored citizen, as you see me; I pays
-taxes and owns my own plantation. I was once a slave on de Reese place,
-in Sumter County, below Columbia. Just when I come to b'long to Mr.
-Joseph Howell, I don't know. I recollects dat Marse Joe had 'bout twenty
-families of slaves and dere was six hundred acres in his plantation.
-
-"My mistress was his wife, Miss Sara. They had four chillun. Miss
-Mattie, married Oscar Chappell. Johnnie, married a Miss Lever. Thomas,
-married some lady in Columbia, disremember de fam'ly name. Miss Jessie,
-married Rev. Huggins, a Baptist preacher, though her folks wasn't of dat
-'suasion; they was Methodist. Us niggers was 'structed early in 'ligion.
-Took to Cedar Creek and camp meetin'. My white folks had a fine
-carriage. A mulatto boy, Adam, was de driver. Sometime I'd go wid him
-to meet visitors from de low country at de station, and look after de
-baggage and sich.
-
-"Yes sir, I doesn't deny it, I got many whuppins. Dere's not much to a
-boy, white or black, dat don't need a whuppin' sometime on de way up.
-When you break a wild spirited colt, they make de best hoss or mule. I
-can do more work today, than most of dese triflin', cigaret young mens.
-You sees me today, as straight as a arrow and like a wild cat on my
-foots.
-
-"You bet yo' life, my white folks was de bestest in de land. They wasn't
-mealy mouthed; they made everybody work, sun to sun, seven days in de
-week. But didn't de good Lord set de 'zample? Yes sir, he made us all
-work, women in de perils of child birth, drapped cotton seed and corn
-kernels. Dr. Turnipseed, dat was our doctor, 'low dat light labor lak
-dat good for them.
-
-"Farm hands got a peck of meal, three pounds bacon, quart of 'lasses,
-cup of salt, and two cups middlin' flour, no white flour. Had good warm
-clothes in winter, one-piece cotton suit in summer, and de little
-niggers went dressed in deir shirt tails from fust of June, to fust of
-October. They sho' did, and was as happy over it as de day was long.
-
-"My mother named Emma. Never married to my daddy, 'cause they didn't
-live on de same place and b'long to same master. Daddy b'long to de
-Halls. I have a brother by dis same mammy. Daddy go by de name of
-Dinkins. He took up wid another woman after freedom, and my brother and
-me was 'shame of him. Us 'cided to take Jenkins for our name but keep a
-'D' in de middle, so if anything come up, de 'D' could 'cite 'membrance
-of who us really is. You see what I mean?
-
-"Our shoes for de winter was made on de place, out of leather from our
-own tan-yard and from our own cow hides. Marster had a good fish pond.
-He had a four-hoss gin, though mules pulled it. De lint cotton was
-packed in a bale and a screw pit. Baggin' was any old thing, like old
-sacks or canvas sheetin'.
-
-"My mother jined de Baptis' church, and I followed in her foot steps.
-Everybody ought to b'long to some church, 'cause it's 'spectable, and
-membership in de church is both a fire and a life insurance. It 'sures
-you 'ginst hell fire, and gives you at death, an eternal estate in
-Hebben. What you laughin' at? It's de gospel truth I'm givin' you right
-now. Wish everybody could hear it and believe it.
-
-"My marster, Joe Howell, went off to de old war. His niggers was so well
-trained, dat they carried on for him whilst he was gone and dere was no
-trouble. Everything went on just de same as if he was dere.
-
-"Pat-a-rollers (patrollers) would come often and ketch niggers sometime;
-caught my daddy once and whup him good. Ours was a fine body of slaves
-and loyal to de mistress and her chillun.
-
-"Dances? Yes sir, I can hear them fiddles and de pattin' now. Dis de way
-de dance was called: 'Balance all; sashshay to your partners; swing her
-'round and promenade all; forward on de head; ladies change;' and all
-dat. Then de jigs went on. Believe me, them was times!
-
-"The main drawback on Marster Joe's plantation was, de water on de place
-was no 'count. Us had to haul water on a sled, wid a mule, from de
-Friday place; dat's de onliest trouble us had. Sometime us had to tie up
-fodder and 'tend to de hay in de field on Sunday.
-
-"I married fust a girl name Sarah, in 1878. Got three chillun by her.
-She died. Not good for a man to live alone, de Lord say. I picked out
-another Sarah, but called her Sallie. Us has had nine chillun. Three of
-dese [TR: are] Sailor, Tera, and Monroe. Monroe lives on my place and
-farms 'long side of me. Sam is in Detroit, Michigan; Henry in
-Flurida (Florida).
-
-"When de Yankees come, what they do? They did them things they ought not
-to have done and they left undone de things they ought to have done.
-Yes, dat just 'bout tells it. One thing you might like to hear. Mistress
-got all de money, de silver, de gold and de jewels, and got de well
-digger to hide them in de bottom of de well. Them Yankees smart. When
-they got dere, they asked for de ve'y things at de bottom of de well.
-Mistress wouldn't tell. They held a court of 'quiry in de yard; called
-slaves up, one by one, good many. Must have been a Judas 'mongst us.
-Soon a Yankee was let down in de well, and all dat money, silver, gold,
-jewelry, watches, rings, brooches, knives and forks, butter-dishes,
-waters, goblets, and cups was took and carried 'way by a army dat seemed
-more concerned 'bout stealin', than they was 'bout de Holy War for de
-liberation of de poor African slave people. They took off all de hosses,
-sheeps, cows, chickens, and geese, took de seine and de fishes they
-caught, corn in crib, meat in smoke house, and everything. Marse General
-Sherman said war was hell. It sho' was. Mebbe it was hell for some of
-them Yankees when they come to die and give account of de deeds they
-done in Sumter and Richland Counties."
-
-Maria Jenkins
-=============
-
- | **Interview with Maria Jenkins, about 90 years old**
- | **64 Montague Street, Charleston, S.C.**
- | —*Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C.*
-
-Maria Jenkins, who is about ninety, is very nearly blind, and only by
-quiet persistence can she be made to hear; once started, her mind is
-clear. She shows no bitterness. Occasionally there are flashes of humor.
-Her body is brawny, sturdy and well carried, considering her age.
-
-Maria Jenkins was a daughter of Aaron Grant; her mother's name is Ellen
-Grant, all of whom were owned by Mr. Hugh Wilson of Wadmalaw Island.
-
-"I b'long Wadmalaw. When de Yankee come I ole 'nuf for mind chillun, and
-take um to de field. I go up to Maussa' house ebery day for de milk for
-we; and dey give we clabba (clabber) and cow peas and ting out de
-garden. We git ebery evening a bushel ob corn grind and hand ober to de
-nurse, and him sift out de flour. Yes Mam. He done grind in de hand mill
-in de barn yard—de stone mill. Dat been uh big mill too. And dey gib we
-uh big piece ob meat—so—(measuring with hands) and sometime chicken.
-Rachel cook in de big pot for we chillun, and he dip um out. (She here
-explained the big ladle or dipper.) You know dem big ladle. We put um in
-we pan. Yes, Ma'am, he name Rachel, and he lick we. We haffa love um or
-she lick we." Her huge mouth was illumined by a humorous smile.
-
-"He teach me to wash de baby clean and put on he dipa (diaper), and if I
-ain't do um good he konk my head. When de wah come, my pa put heself
-free off to New Orleans; I dunno how he look. I dunno if he libbin or
-dead now. My ma dead fust year ob de wah, I hab twelve chillun, and all
-dead; I got two grand chillun left—de one in New York—I raise him from
-baby atter he ma and pa dead."
-
-"Your grand son helps you?"
-
-"Wat dat?", leaning forward with her hand back of her ear. The question
-was repeated.
-
-"Him ain't no man, him my grand daughter, Ellen Jenkins. I raise him
-from baby yes, she name Ellen. Him good to me; him help me ebery
-minute."
-
-"Are all your people dead?"
-
-"De whole nation dead," reflectively, "De whole nation dead—Peggy
-dead—Toby dead—all leaning on de Lord."
-
-"When dem boat come up de ribber, and he shoot, and shoot, de big gun,
-dat been de awful time. My ma dead de fust year ob de wah—I dunno if
-dem big gun kill um. He kill 'nuf people.
-
-"Maussa come and he say: 'Who-na (all of you) nigger take care ob
-yourself, I must leab to take my fambly away. Will is here; and de cow,
-and de pig in de pen, and de chicken all ober de place—I gib you your
-freedom for take care ob yourself.' W'en he gone, dem nigger break for
-the thick woods. Some dead and some ain't dead."
-
-Later a camp was established for this plantation of Negroes, back in the
-pine woods. When asked what they did after the war, Maria raised her
-hands and said:
-
-"After de wah we all come home, tank de Lord! tank de Lord!"
-
-"But your master didn't have any money to care for you."
-
-"Haffa scrabble for yo'self." Said she.
-
-Paul Jenkins
-============
-
- | **Interview with Paul Jenkins, 70 years old**
- | **18 Belser's Alley, Columbia, S.C.**
- | —*Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-*SON OF A SLAVE TELLS OF HIS FATHER'S POLITICAL EXPERIENCES*
-
-Paul Jenkins, age seventy, living at 18 Belser's Alley, Columbia, S.C.,
-is a son of Paul Jenkins, a former slave, who decided to endure the
-burdens he had in Colleton County, South Carolina, after he was set free
-in 1865, rather than to fly to other places he knew nothing of. There he
-won the respect of the white folks and Negroes alike, was repeatedly
-elected to office, and lived there happily to the end of his life.
-
-Here the present Paul Jenkins takes up the story, with:
-
-"I was born in Colleton County in 1867. My daddy was in office when I
-begin to recall things, and he keep in office, by the will of the
-people, until I was nearly grown. My mammy, too, was a slave, when she
-and daddy marry. She die when I was 'bout twelve years old, and my only
-brother, Edgar, was goin' on ten. My daddy never marry again.
-
-"One day some white men come to see daddy long after mammy was gone, and
-they say to daddy: 'Paul, when you gwine to jump the broomstick again?'
-My daddy was the only one who not laugh when they say that. He reply: 'I
-has no women in view and no weddin' dream in the back of my head. I has
-decided a wicked woman am a big bother and a good woman am a bore. To my
-way of thinkin', that is the only difference between them.' The white
-folks not smile, but say: 'You'll see! Just wait 'til the right girl
-come along.'
-
-"Daddy just seem to make friends of all the people 'bout him, and our
-house, close to Smoak, was a big meetin' place most of the time.
-Sometimes the visitors are all white men. But at other days the niggers
-come and talk, tell funny tales, and laugh. Most of the meetin's at the
-house was late at night, 'cause my daddy always go to his office at
-Walterboro, on week days. People comin' and goin' there, all the time.
-Daddy was sho' popular with the people, generally speakin'.
-
-"The biggest crowd I ever seen up to that time, was when General M.C.
-Butler come to Walterboro in 1882, to speak. He had been United States
-Senator since 1876, and was a candidate for re-election. General Butler
-much pleased, that day, when many white leaders and daddy call at his
-hotel and tell him that daddy had been asked by his neighbors to
-introduce him. He say: 'Well, from what I hears, Paul Jenkins can do
-that job as well as anybody in the State.' Then he pat daddy on the
-shoulder.
-
-"At the speakin', daddy gets up, and the big crowd claps its hands for
-joy, and laughs, too. Daddy not laugh much, just smile. Then he throw
-back his shoulders and say:
-
- | General Butler, lak Moses, led us forth at last,
- | The barren wilderness he pass'd
- | Did on the very border stand
- | Of the bless'd Promise Land,
- | And from the misty mountain tops of his exalted wit,
- | Saw it himself and showed us it!
-
-"'That's why we am sendin' him back——'. That was all I hear. Daddy not
-allowed to finish. The people riot with pleasure, and General Butler say
-the tribute am de finest he ever hear, and smile at daddy sittin' there
-on the platform with the other big folks. At another time, daddy has a
-nigger lawyer runnin' 'gainst him for County Commissioner. The lawyer's
-name was Amphibious McIver. They begin the campaign at Cottageville.
-McIver speak first. Daddy follow, and begin with:
-
- | A bullfrog tied by its tail to a stump,
- | It rear and it croak, but it couldn't make a jump!
-
-"The white folks and the niggers clap, stamp, throw hats, and laugh;
-finally, marchin' up to the table to grab daddy and carry him up the
-street on their shoulders. He keep sayin': 'Boys, why don't you let me
-finish my speech?' They would laugh and say: 'Paul, you done made de
-best speech in de world!' Daddy win at the 'lection, in a big way.
-
-"My daddy learn to read, write, and cipher while he was a slave. The
-Jenkins family help him, he say, 'cause he always keep the peace, and
-work as he was told to do. When he's set free, that white family help
-him get settled and loaned him books. He go to Charleston 'bout 1868 and
-buy an armful of books and studied at night or whenever he had the
-chance. That is why he was able to make the political races which he
-make and profit by. He send me and my brother, Edgar, to school, so that
-we learn a good deal in books. Edgar, he fidgitty lak, and decide he go
-to Pennsylvania and make a fortune!
-
-"Edgar got work in a steel mill at Johnstown, soon after he got there,
-and had considerable money, when he was sent to the hospital with
-pneumonia. He pull through that sickness and go back to his job, but the
-big flood come (May 31, 1889) and the girl he was to marry was among the
-2,000 unknown people who was drowned, and he never has married—peculiar
-lak our daddy, don't you think? I just been married to one. She is 68
-and I's 70 and I may say we's through, too!
-
-"I specialized on bridge-buildin'. I has helped build a sight of bridges
-in my time, travelin' as far as Memphis, Tenn., in that work. I has made
-oodles of money, but my dollars always has wings and, one way or the
-other, they get away from me. Still me and my old woman not sufferin'
-much and we hopes, when we goes away for good, we goes
-together."
-
-Emma Jeter
-==========
-
- | **Interview with "Aunt" Emma Jeter**
- | **21 Long Twelve, Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Lordy, Honey, I sho was born in slavery and I is proud o' it too. Ole
-Marse Cole Lawson was my ole marster. When I axed him how old I was, he
-allus 'lowed something like dis, 'you is older than you is good', and
-dat all he ever said 'bout my age. Sweet Dreams (her grand daughter),
-come here and fetch me a drink from de well to wet my mouth! My
-grand-daughter stay wid me at night. When she doan stay, some o' de
-other grand uns stays. Sometime it's jest me and Sago here all alone. I
-jes' sets and looks at him at night while he sleep. He work de rich
-white folks' flower yards fer 'em, and dat brings him in at night real
-tired. My grand-daughter's real name is Marguerite Porter, but nobody
-don't hardly know dat; kaise everybody call her Sweet Dream, her lil
-baby name. She my oldest daughter's fifth chile. My feelings tells me I
-is ole, and my white folks 'll tell you I was born in slavery, 'cept dey
-is all dead.
-
-"Light furs' struck me on de large plantation o' Ole Marse Cole Lawson,
-de paw o' Mr. Victor Lawson. Mr. Victor ain't no spring chicken no mo'
-hisself. Dat over in Sedalia in de Minter Section. You kno's 'bout de
-large plantation o' Marse James E. Minter, dat gib de section its name?
-(CHS show boundaries of Minter lands). Way back over dar whar I was
-born.
-
-"Paw stay in Union County. Maw was sold to a man name Marse Bailey Suber
-over in Fairfield, while I still a suckling. At dat time, my paw was
-bought by a widder woman, Miss Sarah Barnett, in Union Cnty. Lawd Jesus!
-Dat separate my maw and paw. Maw tuck me 'long wid her. Maw name Clara
-Sims. When Me and maw went to Fairfield, us didn't stay dar long 'fo ole
-man Harrison Sartor of Santuck, bought my maw. Us glad to git back to
-Union. I was a big size gal by dis time and I start to be de waiting gal
-in my new Marse's house fer his wife, Miss Betsy. Miss Betsy had one
-sister, Miss Nancy Wilson, dat live wid her. Her missus and old Marster
-and dere son, Willie, was all dat I had to wait on, kaise dat was all
-dar was in de household.
-
-"God-A-Mighty! Is you gwine to fill up dat book wid all dat I says?
-Well, Marse Harrison didn't 'low paw to see maw 'cept twice a
-year—laying-by time and Christmas. My paw still 'longed to Miss Sarah
-Barnett. Dat's 'zactly why I is got five half-sisters and one-half
-brother. Paw got him another wife at Miss Sarah's. Miss Sarah want young
-healthy slaves. Maw had jes' me and Ann. Ann been daed, Oh, Lord, forty
-years. Dis all to my recollections.
-
-"Is you gwine to fix fer me and Sago to git some pension? Gawd naw, some
-dese lil babies whats 'er sucking de maw's titties is gwine to git dat
-pension. Us all gwine to be daed 'fo it even come out. You ain't gwine
-to even sho' dat to no Gov'ment man; no Lawd, ain't never thought I's
-gwine to git it.
-
-"Yes, Honey, I was in Fairfield den, but I 'members when crowds o' men
-come in from de war. All us chilluns seed mens coming and us run and
-tuck off fas' as us could fer de nearest woods, kaise us wuz dat scared,
-dat dem mens gwine to git us. Atter dat, us found out dey was our own
-folks. Us had done tuck and run from dem den.
-
-"Chile, you come back when Sago here, and us tell you dat book full, sho
-nuff."
-
-Adeline Hall Johnson
-====================
-
- | **Interview with Adeline Hall Johnson, 93 Years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-Adeline Hall's husband was Tom Johnson but she prefers to be called
-"Hall", the name of her old master. Adeline lives with her daughter,
-Emma, and Emma's six children, about ten miles southeast of Winnsboro,
-S.C., in a three-room frame house on the Durham place, a plantation
-owned by Mr. A.M. Owens of Winnsboro. The plantation contains 1,500
-acres, populated by over sixty Negroes, run as a diversified farm, under
-the supervision of a white overseer in the employ of Mr. Owens.
-
-The wide expanse of cotton and corn fields, the large number of dusky
-Negro laborers working along side by side in the fields and singing
-Negro spirituals as they work, give a fair presentation or picture of
-what slavery was like on a well conducted Southern plantation before the
-Civil War. Adeline fits into this picture as the old Negro "Mauma" of
-the plantation, respected by all, white and black, and tenderly cared
-for. She has her clay pipe and stick ever with and about her. There is a
-spacious pocket in her dress underneath an apron. In that pocket is a
-miscellany of broken pieces of china, crumbs of tobacco, a biscuit, a
-bit of wire, numerous strings of various colors, and from time to time
-the pipe becomes the warm individual member of the varied assortment.
-
-Her eyes are bright and undimmed by age and the vigor with which she
-can telegraph her wants to the household by the rappings of that stick on
-the plank floor is interesting and amusing.
-
-She is confident that she will round out a century of years, because:
-"Marse Arthur Owens done tell me I'll live to be a hundred, if I stay
-on his place and never 'lope away wid any strange young buck nigger.
-
-"I's not so feeble as I might 'pear, white folks. Long time I suffer for
-sight, but dese last years I see just as good as I ever did. Dats a
-blessin' from de Lord!
-
-"Who I b'long to in slavery time? Where I born? I born on what is now
-called de Jesse Gladden place but it all b'long to my old marster,
-William Hall, then.
-
-"My old marster was one of de richest man in de world. Him have lands in
-Chester and Fairfield counties, Georgia and Florida, and one place on de
-Red River in Arkansas. He also had a plantation, to raise brown suger
-on, in old Louisiana. Then him and his brudder, Daniel, built and give
-Bethesda Church, dats standin' yet, to de white Methodis' of Mitford,
-for them to 'tend and worship at. He 'membered de Lord, you see, in all
-his ways and de Lord guide his steps.
-
-"I never have to do no field work; just stayed 'round de house and wait
-on de mistress, and de chillun. I was whupped just one time. Dat was for
-markin' de mantel-piece wid a dead coal of fire. They make mammy do de
-lashin'. Hadn't hit me three licks befo' Miss Dorcas, Miss Jemima, Miss
-Julia, and Marse Johnnie run dere, ketch de switch, and say: 'Dat enough
-Mauma Ann! Addie won't do it agin'. Dats all de beatin' I ever 'ceived
-in slavery time.
-
-"Now does you wanna know what I do when I was a child, from de time I
-git up in de mornin' to de time I go to bed? I was 'bout raised up in de
-house. Well, in de evenin', I fill them boxes wid chips and fat
-splinters. When mornin' come, I go in dere and make a fire for my young
-mistresses to git up by. I help dress them and comb deir hair. Then I
-goes down stairs and put flowers on de breakfas' table and lay de Bible
-by Marse William's chair. Then I bring in de breakfas'. (Table have to
-be set de night befo') When everything was on de table, I ring de bell.
-White folks come down and I wait on de table.
-
-"After de meal finish, Marse William read de Bible and pray. I clear de
-table and help wash de dishes. When dat finish, I cleans up de rooms.
-Then I acts as maid and waitress at dinner and supper. I warms up de
-girls' room, where they sleep, after supper. Then go home to poppy John
-and Mauma Anne. Dat was a happy time, wid happy days!
-
-"Dat was a happy family. Marse William have no trouble, 'cept once when
-him brudder, Daniel, come over one mornin' and closet wid Marse William.
-When Marse Daniel go, Marse William come in dere where me and de
-mistress was and say: 'Tom's run away from school'. (Dats one of Marse
-Daniel's boys dat 'tended school at Mt. Zion, in Winnsboro) Her 'low:
-'What him run away for?' 'Had a fool duel wid a Caldwell boy,' him say.
-I hear no more 'bout dat 'til Marse Tom come home and then I hear
-plenty. White folks been laughin' 'bout it ever since. Special talk
-'bout it since Marse Tom's grandson b'come a United State Judge. Bet
-Marse Dan Hall told you 'bout it. Want me to go ahead and tell you it my
-way? Well, 'twas dis a way: Marse Tom and Marse Joe Caldwell fell out
-'bout a piece of soap when they was roomin' together at school. Boys
-crowd 'round them and say: 'Fight it out!' They hit a lick or two, and
-was parted. Then de older boys say dere must be a duel. Marse Joe git
-seconds. Marse Tom git seconds. They load guns wid powder but put no
-bullets in them. Tell Marse Joe 'bout it but don't tell Marse Tom. Then
-they go down town, fix up a bag of pokeberry juice, and have it inside
-Marse Joe's westcoat, on his breast. Took them out in a field, face
-them, and say: 'One, two, three, fire!' Guns went off, Marse Joe slap
-his hand on his chest, and de bag bust. Red juice run all over him.
-Older boys say: 'Run Tom and git out de way.' Marse Tom never stop 'til
-him git to Liverpool, England. Marse William and Marse Daniel find him
-dere, sent money for to fetch him home and him laugh 'bout it when he
-git back. Yes sir, dat is de grandpappy of Marse Lyle Glenn, a big judge
-right now.
-
-"De white folks near, was de Mellichamps, de Gladdens, de Mobleys,
-Lumpkins, Boulwares, Fords, Picketts, and Johnsons.
-
-"When de Yankees come, they was struck dumb wid de way marster acted.
-They took things, wid a beg your pardon kind of way, but they never
-burnt a single thing, and went off wid deir tails twixt deir legs, kinda
-'shame lak.
-
-"After freedom I marry a preacher, Tom Johnson. Him die when in his
-sixties, thirty years ago. Our chillun was Emma, Mansell, Tom, and
-Grover. Bad white folks didn't lak my husband. Dere was a whiskey still,
-near our house where you could git three gallons of liquor for a silver
-dollar. Him preach agin' it. Dat gall both makers and drinkers. Him
-'dured persecution for de Lord's sake, and have gone home to his awards.
-
-"In slavery, us have all de clothes us need, all de food us want, and
-work all de harder 'cause us love de white folks dat cared for us. No
-sirree, none of our slaves ever run 'way. Us have a week off, Christmas.
-Go widout a pass to Marse Daniel's quarters and they come to our'n.
-
-"Dr. Scott and Dr. Douglas 'tend sick slaves. I don't set myself up
-to judge Marse Abe Lincoln. Dere is sinners, black and white, but I hope
-and prays to git to hebben. Whether I's white or black when I git dere, I'll
-be satisfied to see my Savior dat my old marster worshipped and my husband
-preach 'bout. I wants to be in hebben wid all my white folks, just to wait
-on them, and love them and serve them, sorta lak I did in slavery time. Dat
-will be 'nough hebben for Adeline."
-
-Anna Johnson
-============
-
- | **Interview with Anna Johnson (75)**
- | **Rt.4, Gaffney, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"I sho is spry, kaise I sho is done took care of myself and I done dat
-good, too. I know Will Evans who is 72 and he is all bent over and
-wrinkled and all stewed up. Dat's de way folks wants to see you befo'
-dey calls you old, but dey ain't gwine to see me like dat, 'deed dey
-ain't. Most folks calls me de youngest, but I was born on de 30th day of
-July, and I is passed by 75 Julys and still gitting around better dan
-some dat is seed but 60 Julys.
-
-"Well does I remember when my young marster, John Kitchens, went to de
-'Federate War. He was a big fat feller, and jolly. De morning he left,
-he come through de yard leading a fine bay. All of us was dar to see him
-off. We had fetched him things, but he say dat you couldn't carry
-nothing to war but a pack on your back and he laid dem all down and
-wiped his eyes and rode off wid a big yell to us. Dat was de rebel yell
-and we answered back.
-
-"One morning de very next week we heard our young missus hollering and
-we went to see what de trouble was. She had got word dat he had done
-gone and got kil't by a Yankee. We all cried. De little chilluns, John,
-Will, Ella and Bob cried, too. Missus went to her ma and pa, Mr. Green
-and Miss Sallie Mitchel, near Trough Shoals. Frankie Brown and Malissa
-Chalk went wid her to her pa's. Our plantation was awful big. It was
-sold and us wid it.
-
-"Wasn't long till young Missus married again and went to Virginia to
-live. Frankie and Malissa come back to our plantation. Den slavery was
-over and dat is de last dat I ever heard of our Missus."
-
-Jack Johnson
-============
-
- | **Interview with Jack Johnson, 84 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"You see me right here, de sin of both races in my face, or was it just
-de sin of one? My Marster was my father, his name was Tom Reed, and he
-lived six miles from Lancaster Court House. Dats where I was born. My
-mammy name Jane, don't know where she come from. My marster was kind to
-us. I done no work much, just picked peas and sich like during de war. I
-was my mammy's only child, and when de war was over, and I grow up, I
-left dere and come to Cedar Creek, low part of Fairfield County. I marry
-a gal, Bella Cook, and us had sixteen chillun, thirteen of them is a
-livin' now. I then marry Hannah Dubard, a widow. She and me have had no
-child.
-
-"I b'long to de Sanctified Church, and you have to go down into de water
-and come up straight way out of de water to b'long to dat church. Where
-is it? Its on Little Cedar Creek in dis county. Who de preacher? His
-name is the Reverend Edmunds. Us sings spirituals, one is, 'Dat Heavenly
-Railroad Train', another is 'Dere is a Rock in my Heart', another, 'So
-glad I'm here, but I'd rather be up yonder Lord'. Some colored churches
-'sinuate a child born out of wedlock can't enter de kingdom of heaven.
-Our church say he can if he ain't a drunkard, and is de husband of one
-wife and to believe on, and trust in de Lord as your Savior, and live a
-right kind of life dat he proves of. Dat seem reason to me, and I jine
-and find peace as long as I does right.
-
-"Never was sick a day in my life, can plow yet, eat three meals a day,
-but can't sleep as much as I use to, six hours plenty for me now. I's
-just here today findin' out 'bout dat old age pension dats a comin'.
-Will you kinda keep a eye on it for me and let me tend to de ox and de
-grass at my home on Little Cedar Creek? A short hoss is soon curried, so
-dats 'bout all I kin 'member to tell you now."
-
-James Johnson
-=============
-
- | **Interview with James Johnson, 79 years old**
- | —*Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-*THE COTTON MAN*
-
-James Johnson lives with a sister at 1045 Barron Street, College Place,
-[HW: Columbia], S.C. He is incapable of self support on account of age,
-ill health, and impaired feet. One of his feet was mashed off and the
-other badly damaged by handling bales of cotton several years ago. He
-subsists on what his sister and other people are able to give him.
-
-"I has been livin' right here in Columbia for the past thirty-six years.
-I has worked in de cotton business, first as ginner and then wid cotton
-buyers, ever since I has been here. I knows all de grades of lint cotton
-and can name them right now. (He ran through the different grades fairly
-correctly.)
-
-"I learned all I knows 'bout cotton and de grades from Mr. M.C.
-Heath and Mr. W.E. Smith, cotton buyers in Columbia for thirty years or
-more. They thought so much of my knowledge of cotton, dat they sent me
-many times to settle claims wid big men and big buyers. [1]_
-
-.. [1] Verification not available.
-
-"It ain't what a nigger knows dat keeps him down. No, sir. It is what he
-don't know, dat keeps de black man in de background. White folks dat is
-business folks, pays no 'tention to our color as much as they does to
-dat money makin' power us has. Of course, de white man sticks to his
-color and you can't blame him for dat. If de nigger shows dat he is
-willin' to work and to learn to be business lak, make money and walk
-straight wid his boss and fellowman, de better class of de white people
-is gwine to treat him right. I knows what I's tellin' you is so, from my
-own 'sperience wid Mr. Heath and Mr. Smith. They always treated me
-better than I deserved and even now in my old age, deir folks and deir
-friends gives me money, dat keeps me out de poorhouse.
-
-"No, sir, I don't 'member de Civil War a-tall myself but I has heard all
-'bout it from my own folks and de white folks I has worked wid. It seems
-lak I knows too much 'bout them awful times. I sho' am glad I didn't
-come 'long then. I feels and knows dat de years after de war was worser
-than befo'. Befo' de war, niggers did have a place to lie down at night
-and somewhere to eat, when they got hungry in slavery time. Since them
-times, a many a nigger has had it tough to make a livin'. I knows dat is
-so, too, 'cause I has been all 'long dere.
-
-"Many niggers have gone north to live, since freedom, but de most of
-them either comes back south again or they wants to come back. De north
-don't suit de nigger. Cold climate lak they has up dere is too hard on
-him. He has thin blood and you knows dat a thin pan gwine to git hot
-quicker than a thick one and cold de same way. You see a heap of niggers
-is lak wild animals, in a way. He laks to eat a heap, sleep a heap, and
-move 'bout slow. When he goes up north he has to step 'round fas',
-'cause if he don't, he gits in de way of them Yankees dat move 'bout
-quick.
-
-"De black man is natchally lazy, you knows dat. De reason he talks lak
-he does, is 'cause he don't want to go to de trouble to 'nounce his
-words lak they ought to be. When he says 'dat' he saves a letter, same
-way wid 'dis' and nearly all other words. It ain't after savin' so much;
-he is just too careless and lazy to care 'bout it. A nigger wants what
-is in sight and not dat what he can't see; it can look out for itself. I
-is sorry I has to say all dis 'bout my own color but it is de truth. De
-truth makes you free and runs de devil. I is a nigger myself and I knows
-what they is and what they does.
-
-"Is de nigger 'ligious? Yes, sir, many of them is very 'ligious widout
-'ligion. He takes all dat from white folks. So many think 'ligion is
-gwine to git them somethin' widout workin' for it and fool people by
-makin' them think they is good and can be trusted and all dat. But I
-'spects some of them is right, even at dat, 'cause if they ain't got
-'ligion they sho' ain't got nothin' in dis world. I pays no 'tention to
-all dis 'gwine on' lak I see some 'ligious folks does. Maybe I wouldn't
-be in de fix I is, if I paid more 'tention to churches and all dat. I
-believes in churches and good folks but I don't practice them good
-things lak I ought to. Boss, if you take de dollar out of 'ligion and de
-churches, you sho' would have to hunt for them. I believes dat. I don't
-see no 'ciples gwine 'bout a preachin' and doin' good, lak I has heard
-they once done, barefooted and askin' no pay. De preachers dese days is
-a ridin' in de finest automobiles and you sho' better look out for
-yourself, if you don't, you is gwine to git run over.
-
-"I has been a good man, in body, all de time since I got grown. For many
-years I didn't know my own strength. I never seen a bale of cotton I
-couldn't pick up and tote where I wanted to, by myself. You see dese
-foots of mine? They was mashed off, from drappin' bales of cotton on
-them, back yonder many years ago.
-
-"I 'members mighty well, when de fust skyscraper was built in Columbia.
-My bosses was one of de fust to have a office in dere. Dat was de Loan
-and Exchange Bank Building, on de corner of Washington and Main streets.
-I has been here and seen dis city grow from a small place to what you
-see 'tis now.
-
-"My mammy and daddy b'long to Mr. Andrew Johnson of Orangeburg County,
-of dis State. They said dat they was treated mighty good by deir marster
-all de time they was slaves. My daddy took his old marster's name. I was
-born a slave but all I knows is what I has heard. Some of it might be
-right and some might be wrong."
-
-Rev. James H. Johnson
-=====================
-
- | **Interview with James H. Johnson, 82 years old**
- | —*Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-"My name is James H. Johnson. I was born December 20, 1855, at the town
-servants' quarters of Alfred Brevort at Camden, South Carolina, and that
-was home until I was turning into twelve years of age. I was nearly ten
-years old, when the army of General Sherman came to Camden. I talked to
-some of the soldiers, soon after they arrived."
-
-Such was the greeting of the Rev. James H. Johnson; a retired, and well
-educated Methodist Episcopal minister, when a WPA reporter called at his
-residence, 2029 Marion Street, Columbia, South Carolina, and asked for
-an interview. He sat in his study, furnished for comfort and equipped
-about as well as any study, of this kind, in Columbia.
-
-"My mother," he explained, "was one of the maids at the Brevort home,
-and my father was one of the overseers of the plantation. We did not
-hear about President Lincoln's freedom proclamation in 1863, but the
-status quo of slavery kept right on as it had been until Sherman's army
-came through. You know General Lee surrendered the same spring, and we
-learned we were free.
-
-"In 1866 my father bought four acres in the vicinity of Camden and
-improved it with a house and barn, and we lived there for several years.
-My father went into the mercantile business in Camden and prospered.
-There I went to the public schools. We had teachers from the North, and
-I finished all the grades. There were no high schools in the state at
-that time.
-
-"We had our own home-raised hams and plenty of food products in our
-quarters, when my mother and I heard shooting nearby. We stepped into
-the yard and saw a big number of soldiers shooting at a running white
-man of the community. They did not hit him. In a moment or two five
-soldiers strode into our yard and we were scared at first, but they
-told us they were friends, and one of them spied the hams and asked if
-they belonged to the big house. When told that they were ours, they said
-they were hungry, and mother fixed them a dinner of ham and eggs and
-plenty of other things. They thanked us and left, doing no harm.
-
-"Before they left, I noticed a crowd of soldiers at the Brevort home. I
-ran there, and told the troops, please, to do no damage to the premises,
-as the mistress, then in charge, was the best friend my mother and I had
-ever had. They left soon afterward, showing no animus toward the Brevort
-family and taking nothing away.
-
-"We never received any aid from the Freedmen's bureau, for we did not
-need it. After I finished the public school work at Camden and helped my
-father in his store for a time, I entered the University of South
-Carolina, in October, 1874 and stayed there until 1877. You know there
-was a change in government in 1876, and Negroes were excluded from the
-university in 1877. I was in my junior year, when I left.
-
-"I returned to Camden and taught school in Kershaw County for ten years.
-During that time I opened school in the Browning Home, which still
-stands in Camden. In the meantime, I had been an interested member of
-the Methodist Episcopal Church since my early years, and I was made an
-elder in that denomination in 1888, and sent to Columbia as pastor of
-the Wesley Methodist Church.
-
-"When I came here as pastor, that church stood on the corner of Sumter
-and Gervais streets, on the site where the United States post-office now
-stands. The congregation sold that corner in 1910 and built the brick
-church at Barnwell and Gervais streets. I was the pastor all that time,
-retiring in 1930 due to physical feebleness. The congregation of that
-church has always been rather small. This accounts for my doing other
-work. I was a clerk in the internal revenue office in Columbia for
-eighteen years.
-
-"Now, I am a notary public and make some income from that. The church
-gives me a small pension, and I advise and do literary work for a large
-number of Negro residents. In that way, I keep fairly busy and my family
-has never gone hungry. I did preach some, a few years ago. I am now too
-feeble to undertake that task, and have to be content, mostly at home."
-
-(Reporter's Note: The Rev. James H. Johnson speaks no dialect. He speaks
-choice, grammatical diction and has a most pleasing personality. His is
-one of the very few Methodist Episcopal Churches in South Carolina for
-Negroes. He says he is glad the church is now seeking to void the split
-over slavery in 1860. He resides in a comfortable home at 2029 Marion
-Street, Columbia, S.C.)
-
-Jane Johnson
-============
-
- | **Interview with Jane Johnson, 90 years old**
- | —*Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-Jane Johnson is living with her niece at 1430 Harden Street, Columbia,
-S.C. She is of small statue, dark, not black, plump and apparently well
-cared for. On account of her age and bodily afflictions she is incapable
-of self-support. Her niece is unmarried, owns a comfortable home, works
-and provides for her grandmother in a good and satisfactory manner.
-
-"Come in, white folks, take dat chair and set down. I hears dat you
-wants to talk to me 'bout myself and my master in slavery time. My name
-is Jane Johnson and I's 'bout ninety years old, from de best 'membrance
-I has from my white folks friends and my own people. One thing I does
-know, I's been here so long, dat I sometimes think I's near 'bout a
-hundred years old.
-
-"I b'long to Master Tom Robertson. My mistress' name was Ophelia. I
-didn't see her much in slavery time, 'cause she stayed in de big house
-on Arsenal Hill, Columbia, S.C. De onliest time I see her a-tall, was
-when I was sent to de big house for somethin' and dat wasn't often.
-Master and mistress had heaps of chillun, 'mong them was twins, all dead
-now, if I 'members right, 'cept Master Tom Robertson, a grandson and a
-rich man too; he living right here in Columbia. My old master lived in
-Columbia but his plantation, where us slaves lived, was 'bout four or
-five miles from Columbia on de Sumter road, just beyond de soldiers
-hospital (Veterans Hospital), dat's right.
-
-"Master Tom come to de plantation every day 'cept Sundays and
-sometimes he come dat day, 'specially in crop season. He never talked
-to us slaves much, just talked to de overseer 'bout us all, I reckon. De
-overseer was a nigger and de meanest man, white or black, I ever see.
-Dat nigger would strut 'round wid a leather strap on his shoulder and
-would whip de other slaves unmerciful. He worked us hard from sunrise to
-sunset every day in de week, 'cept some Saturday evenin's. 'Most of de
-grown slave women knocked off from field work at dinner time on
-Saturdays and done de washin' for de rest of de slaves.
-
-"Yes sir, us had a plenty of rations to eat; no fancy vittles, just
-plain corn bread, meat and vegetables. Dere was no flour bread or any
-kind of sweet stuff for de slaves to eat. Master say sweet things
-'fected de stomach and teeth in a bad way. He wanted us to stay well and
-healthy so us could work hard.
-
-"Master Tom was good to us, course he was, 'cause he didn't see us much
-no way. But dat nigger overseer was de devil settin' cross-legged for de
-rest of us on de plantation all de time. I never has believed dat master
-'tended for dat nigger to treat us like he did. He took 'vantage of his
-bein' 'way and talk soft talk when he come again. Yes sir, he sho' did.
-
-"Not very long after de Yankees come, us was told dat de niggers was
-free. You might think dat was a happy day for us slaves, but I didn't
-think lak dat. I was kinda lonesome and sad lak. Us slaves was lost,
-didn't know what to do or where to go. Don't you think dat was a sad
-time?
-
-"How old was I when I done my courtin'? What's dat? Dat courtin' stuff
-is what white folks does, no nigger knows what dat fancy thing is. Us
-just natchally lives together; men and women mates lak de animals out
-dere. Colored people don't pay no 'tention to what white folks call
-love, they just 'sires de woman they wants, dat's all. I married dat man
-of mine, Tilghman Thompson, and us got 'long right smart, 'til he die. I
-got 'nother one, Anderson Johnson, and he die too, so here I is, left
-here yit.
-
-"You knows de black man has had a long, hard road to travel since he was
-first brought to this country. From de first, he b'long to de white man
-to be took care of and to work. Some colored folks 'pear to be doin'
-right well dese days but back yonder long befo' I was born, I's been
-told, they didn't know how to provide for themselves. What I wants to
-know, what de nigger gwine to do widout de 'sistance of de white man?
-What they has got come from them, you knows dat. I hear some of them
-growlin' 'round, dat they is gwine to do dis and gwine do dat and they
-don't do nothin', 'cept talk too much. They sho' better do right; live
-in peace and git somethin' dat will stay with them.
-
-"Maybe I's wrong to say dis but you knows, white man, de nigger is a far
-way back of de white man; his time ain't come yit, leastwise dat's de
-way it 'pear to me. De nigger come from Africa and other hot places, so
-he takes after de hot country he come from and has a short temper, hard
-head, and not 'nough sense to keep him out of trouble when he gits mad
-or 'cited. When he come here, de white man made him work, and he didn't
-like dat. He is natchally lazy and when he had to work, then he began to
-get huffy and to conjure up in he mind hate and other bad things against
-de whites. Ever since the first time de nigger found out he had to work,
-he has silently despised the white man. If he had lived and done
-nothin', then he would be a 'tirely different person to dis very day, I
-knows dat.
-
-"Does I 'member President Lincoln? I sho' does, but not so much, 'cause
-I was too young to have much sense. I has heard my mammy and daddy say
-he was a good man and wanted everybody to be free, both white and black.
-Dere was a heap of poor white folks in slavery time, and some of them
-lived mighty hard, worse than the slaves sometimes. You knows blood is
-thick and it is gwine to turn to its kind befo' helpin' de others. They
-say slavery was wrong but what 'bout hard times? Dat is de worse kind of
-slavery, I thinks. All dis hollerin' 'round 'bout freedom they has,
-shucks, all dat kind of talk ain't nothin'. When you has work and some
-money in your pocket so you can go to de store and buy some meat and
-bread, then you has de best freedom there is, don't tell me.
-
-"President Roosevelt is 'nother good man. He has looked down on de poor
-and 'tressed in dis land wid mercy; has give work and food to de poor
-people when nobody else would. He sho' has turnt dis country 'round and
-tried so hard to make things right wid de people. When he turn dis way
-and turn dat way, them men up there where he is, try to stop him from
-helpin' us, but de Blessed Master is gwine to hold his hands up. They
-ain't gwine to be able to stop him, 'cause he has done so much good in
-de world. Dat man is gwine to be 'membered by de people always, but them
-dat has fought him and worked against him is sho' gwine to be forgot.
-Nobody wants to 'member them for de evil they has done. You knows dat if
-you sows evil you is sho' gwine to gather evil in time. They ain't gwine
-sow much longer; their harvest time is right out dere in sight, but de
-President is gwine to live on wid us.
-
-"I's gettin' old now, I has to draw on de 'membrance of de past, tottle
-'long in de present and stare wid dese old eyes out dere into what is
-to come (future). I has rheumatism and high blood pressure, so you see
-I's in for a troublesome time from now on to dat last day. I's livin'
-wid my niece now, in her own home, dat is some pleasure to me in my old
-age."
-
-Jimmie Johnson
-==============
-
- | **Interview with "Uncle" Jimmie Johnson (90)**
- | **172 E. Park Ave., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-"I was born in Virginia, but Dr. L.C. Kennedy bought me, my mother and
-brothers and we moved to Spartanburg. My father stayed in Virginia. Dr.
-Kennedy lived near where North Church Street and Kennedy Place now is,
-and I lived in a two-room house in his back yard. I was just a baby at
-the time. My old masser was as good and kind to me as he could be, so
-was my missus. My mother died when I was ten years old, and Missus was
-just like a mother to me all the time. When I got old enough I used to
-do some things around the yard for Masser and Missus.
-
-"Masser was an Episcopalian, and I went to Sunday School where the rock
-church now stands (Church of the Advent). Miss Mary Legg was my teacher,
-and she was a saintly woman. She was a niece of old Masser. Old Missus
-used to come to the house where I lived and teach me my alphabet. After
-I got older, I used to take care of Masser's horse and buggy for him;
-used to hitch-up the horse for him and go with him on his ways to see a
-patient. Bless his heart, he let me take my Webster's blue back speller
-and my history with me when I would drive with him. I would study those
-books and Masser would tell me how to pronounce the hard words. That is
-the way I got my education. Masser would tell Missus that Jimmie was a
-smart boy, that he had no father nor mother and that they must be good
-to him. They sure was. I never wanted for a thing. Sometimes on our
-drives Masser would tell me some Latin words, but I never did study
-Latin—just English.
-
-"My masser would say that Jimmie had sense, was a good boy, so Missus
-would let me practice on her organ or her piano in the house. I got
-pretty good on these, so when I got to be a young man, I taught lessons
-on both the reed organ and the melodian, then on the piano. I taught the
-rudiments of music and piano for about 25 years.
-
-"When the Yankee soldiers come to Spartanburg it scared me. They kept
-telling me that they were not going to hurt me, but I got a pile of
-brick-bats and put them under the house. I told Missus I wasn't going to
-let any of the soldiers hurt her. The Yankee soldiers did not bother me.
-They came all around our house, but every one of them was quiet and
-orderly. They took some of Missus' sugar and hams, but did not kill any
-of the chickens. I told them not to take the sugar, but they took it and
-the hams anyhow.
-
-"Missus told me that I was free, but I told her I was going to stay on
-where I was and protect her until I died. And when Masser died, I
-grieved and grieved about him. I loved him dearly and I know he loved
-me. He was good and kind to me always. He never whipped me, not once. I
-grieve about my masser to this day. He was a kind gentleman.
-
-"No, I never married, and I haven't got anybody kin to me now. My
-brothers all died and I am the only one left. I adopted four children. I
-taught them music and we got on pretty well after Missus died. I stayed
-with her until she died. I told Masser I was going to stay with them
-even if I was free, and I did. When Masser died, I had no one to love
-but Missus. I taught music and gave piano lessons, but I can't do that
-now, as I am too old. Lately I tried to cut some wood. I would cut a
-lick, then rest; cut a lick, then rest, so I gave it up.
-
-"Lord bless your soul! I am so glad you told who you are, and you talk
-like Masser Dan. You know he and I used to play together as boys. He
-would give me anything he had. Honey, come around and see me again. I is
-sure glad to see you. What did you say your name was?" Upon being told,
-his face would light up with a smile, and he would repeat just what he
-had said before. He was then asked when he got to be a poet. "Law'
-chile, my old missus told me I was going to be a poet."
-
-This ninety-year-old ex-slave then sat down at the piano and played for
-the writer.
-
-Mary Johnson
-============
-
- | **I**
- | **Interview with Mary Johnson (85)**
- | **Newberry, S.C.**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I was born seven miles from Newberry, near Jalapa. I was a slave of
-John Johnson and his wife, Polly (Dorroh) Johnson. They was good to dere
-slaves. My daddy was Daniel and my mudder Elisa Johnson who was slaves
-of marster John Johnson. My mudder come from Georgia when she was 14
-years old, bought by Marse Johnson. We lived in a little one-room house
-in dere yard. The mistress learned me to card and spin, and to weave
-when I was a child. When I was old enough, dey put me in de field to
-work, hoe and pick cotton. We got no money for working, but got our
-place to live, some victuals and a few clothes to wear. We had no
-garden, but helped de mistress in her garden and she give us something
-to eat from it. We had homespun dresses; we made not much underclothes,
-but sometimes in awful cold weather, we had red flannel underskirts.
-
-"Nigger boys in slavery when dere work was done in evening, sometime
-went hunting and caught rabbits, squirrels or 'possums.
-
-"We got up at sun-up in mornings and worked 'till sun-down. We had
-Saturday afternoon off to do anything we wanted to do. At Christmas
-time, we got dat day off, and de master would have a big dinner wid all
-kinds good things to eat, spread out in de yard.
-
-"We never did learn to read and write—had no nigger school and had no
-nigger church, but sometimes de white folks would have us go to dere
-church and set in back seat or gallery.
-
-"The white folks had cotton pickings and corn shuckings often and we
-helped. Dey had good dinners for them coming to it. De childrens, white
-and black played marbles sometimes, and played base. Us slave children
-played base and jumped from one base to another before could be caught;
-and we sing: 'Can I git to Molly's bright? Three course and ten. Can I
-get there by candle-light? yes, if your legs are long and light.'
-
-"Marse John's youngest son got to be a doctor. He was a good man and
-helped us when we was sick. He did not gibe herbs much, but some of de
-ole folks used 'life everlasting', now called rabbit tobacco, for cure
-of bad colds or pneumonia. Dey boiled it and make a plaster and put it
-on sore places of chest. Dey used holly bush or spice bush bark, boiled
-to a tea and drunk for sickness.
-
-"De padderrollers come in dat section, they rode at night and if caught,
-a nigger, when he was out of his place, would be took in and told dat he
-would get 25 lashes if he was caught again. When de war was over, de
-Yankees went through but didn't bother us; but dey stold horses, mules,
-cows and supplies. When freedom come, we left the place, 'cause marse
-Johnson and some his folks went to Mississippi. We hired out to Kirk
-Richards nearby.
-
-"De Ku Klux was not a bother. Dey jus marched sometimes at night, wid
-long white sheets over dem and all over de horses. Dere heads were
-covered with small holes for eyes, nose and mouth, and had long white
-ears like a horses ears.
-
-"I think Abe Lincoln was a fine man, and Jeff Davis was good too. Slaver
-did good to nigger, made him careful and know how to work."
-
- | **II**
- | **Interview with Mary Johnson (85)**
- | **Newberry, S.C.**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I live in town in a little two-room house wid some of my grandchilluns.
-We rent de house. I am too old to work, but do what I can.
-
-"I was de slave of John Johnson. His wife was Miss Polly. Dey was good
-to de slaves, and I had no trouble. My mother was Eliza Johnson and my
-pa was Daniel Johnson. Dey was both slaves to Marse John Johnson. My
-mother was from Georgia. We always lived in de yard behind de house in a
-small one-room cabin, a pretty good place to live, I reckon.
-
-"We didn't git no money fer our work. We got something to eat, but not
-much clothes to wear. We worked hard dem days; got up at sun-up and
-worked all day till sun-down or as long as we could see. We didn't git
-much time off, 'cept maybe a day at Christmas.
-
-"No, de white folks didn't learn us to read and write. We had no school
-and no church in slavery time, but some of de niggers was made to go to
-de white folks' church and sit in de back seat.
-
-"Yes, de Yankees was bad. Dey burn't everything in deir way, and stole
-cattle; but dey didn't come near our place."
-
-Miemy Johnson
-=============
-
- | **Interview with Miemy Johnson, 82 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-Miemy Johnson has no particular place of abode. She is a transient among
-her children, kin people, and friends. In whatever home she may be
-temporarily an occupant, she does the cooking and family washing.
-
-"I knowed when dat bunty rooster hopped in de door, flap his wings and
-crowed, dis mornin', dat us gonna have company today. I told Sam so
-befo' he left here. Him laugh and say: 'Ma, dat bunty rooster is a big
-liar sometime. Maybe him just wanna recommend hisself to you and beat de
-pig to de slop bucket dat you ain't carried out to de pen yet.' I's sure
-glad dat you come, for it'll show Sam dat dat chicken never told a lie.
-
-"Set down dere and let me fetch you a plate of boil peanuts, which I
-just is set off de fire. You lak them? Glad you do, honey. Most white
-folks love them dat way, 'stead of parched. How you been? You sure is
-growed since de last day I clap my eyes on you. How's I been? Poorly.
-I's just a waitin' for de chariot to carry me home!
-
-"Well, us done cut down de underbrush, now let us git into de new
-ground. You just wanna talk 'bout me and what happen to me all 'long de
-last eighty years? Dat's some big field to go over.
-
-"My pappy was name Henry. My mammy name Ceily. They both b'long to old
-Marse Johnnie Mobley, but my pappy's pappy b'long to de Johnson's;
-they's big white folks on de Catawba River side of de county. They sold
-deir plantation and some of de slaves, to old marster and his daughter,
-Miss Nancy. She was de widow Thompson befo' her marry dat Kentucky hoss
-drover, Marse Jim Jones.
-
-"Freedom come. My pappy 'membered de Johnson's and took dat for his
-name. I never been able to git 'way from dat name. I marry little Phil
-Johnson. My brudder was Adam Johnson and my sister was Easter. Her marry
-Allan Foster.
-
-"My husband and me live in de old Mobley quarter, three miles southwest
-of Woodward and just 'bout a quarter of a mile from where you settin'
-dere a writin' right now. Long as him live, him was de carriage driver
-for de Mobleys. He 'tend Fellowship Church. All de Mobleys done dead or
-moved 'way. Dere is nothin' left to tell de tale but dat cemetery you
-passed, comin' 'long down here and de ghosts dat shiver 'round dere in
-de nighttime. Whenever it snow, them ghosts have been seen travelin'
-down de road and up de avenue to Cedar Shades. You know dat's 'bout a
-quarter of a mile farther down de road from where Marse Johnnie's
-brudder, James Mobley, lived. Fine old house dere yet, but just colored
-folks live in it.
-
-"Our chillun was Roxanna, Malinda, Ben, Mary, Waddell, Queen Elizabeth,
-Russell, Pearly, Thomasine, Helen, Alberta, Maggie, Mary Jane, Willie,
-Sam and Roy. Had de easiest birth pains when, to my big surprise, de
-twins, Sam and Roy come. Dat been forty years ago last July. I 'members
-well, dat de twins was born on a Wednesday and I walk to Red Hill Church
-de very nex' Sunday. Rev. Richard Cook was de preacher. Him didn't see
-me a settin' in de church and he pray for me by name, as bein' in de
-perils of childbirth. And bless God, me right dere in dat church a goin'
-'long wid de rest of them a singin': 'Amazin' Grace How Sweet De Sound
-Dat Saved A Wretch Lak Me'. I was a proud wretch dat day as sure's you
-born!
-
-"Does I 'member anything 'bout de earthquake? Jesus my Lord, yes! Us was
-holdin' a revival meetin' in Red Hill dat night! It was a moonlight
-Tuesday night. Brother Stevenson and Brother Moore was a helpin' Brother
-Richard Cook carry on de meetin'. It was de last day of August, in '86.
-Brother Moore had preached, de choir had sung a hymn, and Brother
-Stevenson was in de middle of a prayer. Him said sumpin' 'bout de devil
-goin' 'round lak a roarin' lion a seekin' folks for to devour. Then de
-roarin' was heard. De church commence to crack and shake and rock. Then
-all de folks holler: 'Oh Lordy.' They run out dat church and some took
-up de big road to de depot at Woodward. Some fell down in de moonlight
-and cry and pray. Brother Cook say de Bible says: 'Bow down, or kneel or
-fall on your face befo' de Lord'. Then he say: 'Let us all fall on our
-faces dis time.' Us did and each one of them preachers pray. 'Bout time
-they git through, us see a rider on a milk white hoss a gallopin' up to
-de church wid de white mane and tail of dat hoss a wavin' and shinin' in
-de moonlight. De people went wild wid fear and scream at de top of deir
-voices; 'It's de white hoss wid his rider of de book of Revelations
-goin' forth, conquerin' and to conquer.' They bust forth in dat mighty
-spiritual 'Oh Run Here, Believer, Run Here, Oh Sinner Your House On
-Fire! Oh Sinner Your House On Fire!' They run and surround de white hoss
-and his rider and what you reckon? Us find out it was just Marse Ed
-Woodward on his white hoss, John, comin' back from courtin' my young
-mistress, Tillie Mobley, dat him marry de nex' Christmas.
-
-"Marse Ed got down off dat hoss when us beg him to stay wid us. It's a
-pow'ful comfort to have a brave white man 'round at sich a time 'mongst
-a passle of terrified niggers, I tells you! And to think Marse Ed done
-dead.
-
-"You goin' now? You ain't eat all your peanuts. Put them in your pocket
-and eat them on de way to de Boro. Goodbye—I 'spect I'll git to glory
-befo' you does. If I does, I'll be dere a waitin' wid a glad hand and a
-glad voice to welcome you to de everlastin' home."
-
-Tom Johnson
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Tom Johnson (83)**
- | **Newberry, S.C.**
- | —*G. Leland Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I was born on the Gilliam place, I reckon about 1854. My father died
-when I was little; I don't remember him. My mother was Lucy Gilliam who
-belonged to Reuben Gilliam. Reuben Gilliam was a big farmer and
-slave-owner. He was good to de nigger chaps but whipped de big ones
-every day or two. I was too little to learn to read and write, but dey
-never learned any slaved to do dat. Dey never paid us any money wages,
-just give us eats and a place to sleep, and a little clothes. I worked
-in de field when I got bigger. Never had school in de place, and never
-had a church, either.
-
-"Us children played lots of games, like rolly-hole. There are two holes
-and you try to roll a ball in one hole. The white folks had
-corn-shuckings, lots of them, as they raised lots of corn on de farms.
-Dey had cotton pickings, too, and carding and spinning bees, quilting
-bees. I used to feed de shippers when women folks spin de yarn, when I
-was a small boy. We raised plenty corn, cotton, and other things. We had
-a big garden, too.
-
-"When freedom come all of us left and went off. I went back to get
-something to eat. I married Mattie Kinard who belonged to old Maj. John
-Kinard. We had nine children.
-
-"I 'member de red shirts when dey come through our place. I like it
-better now dan in slavery times."
-
-Richard (Look-up) Jones
-=======================
-
- | **Interview with Richard Jones (Dick Look-up), age 93 [HW: 125?]**
- | **County Home, Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-Dick has an upward stare all the time, and holds his head as if he were
-always looking up into the sky, consequently he has won the sobriquet,
-'Look-Up'.
-
-"Everybody dat knows me knows dat I was born on de Jim Gist plantation,
-and it used to jine Mr. Winsmith's and de Glenn Peak plantations. Mr.
-Winsmith was a doctor. Marse Jim sho was a good man to his darkies.
-
-"My father was named Ned Jones and he belonged to Marse Berry Jones. His
-plantation was across de forest, next to West Springs. Mother was Lucy
-Gist, belonging to Marse Jim. My parents had de following chilluns:
-Esther, Bella, Ephriam, Griggs, John, Penfield, me and Richard. Dey
-married and so we was all Jones.
-
-"De slaves in de Gist Quarter lived well. All nigger chilluns in dat
-quarter had very small tasks until dey was seventeen or eighteen years
-old. De quarter had nine houses. Dere was seventeen hundred acres in our
-plantation; or dat is, de part where we lived and worked. We lived in
-one-room log cabins dat had to be well kept all of de time.
-
-"All de chilluns in de Quarter was well fed, clothed, housed and
-doctored until dey was strong and well developed younguns. Den dey was
-give tasks and learnt to do what de master and de mistress thought dey
-would do well at.
-
-"In de houses we had comfortable home-made beds and chairs. We had nice
-tables and plenty to eat. Our clothes was kept mended by a seamstress,
-and dese things was looked after by one of de mammies on de plantation
-dat was too old to work.
-
-"Ah yes, well does I 'member my Granny from Africa, and straight from
-dere, too; Judith Gist, dey named her. Dat ole lady could not work when
-she died, fer she was a hundred and ten years old. Dey had in de paper
-dat I was 125 [HW: 93?]. It gives me notice to say dat I is de oldest
-man in Union County. Can't 'member any of my grandfathers. Millie Gist
-was my mother, and aunt Judith was her mother.
-
-"Granny Judith said dat in Africa dey had very few pretty things, and
-dat dey had no red colors in cloth, in fact, dey had no cloth at all.
-Some strangers wid pale faces come one day and drapped a small piece of
-red flannel down on de ground. All de black folks grabbed fer it. Den a
-larger piece was drapped a little further on, and on until de river was
-reached. Den a large piece was drapped in de river and on de other side.
-Dey was led on, each one trying to git a piece as it was drapped.
-Finally, when de ship was reached, dey drapped large pieces on de plank
-and up into de ship 'till dey got as many blacks on board as dey wanted.
-Den de gate was chained up and dey could not get back. Dat is de way
-Granny Judith say dey got her to America. Of course she did not even
-know dat de pieces was red flannel, or dat she was being enticed away.
-Dey just drapped red flannel to dem like us draps corn to chickens to
-git dem on de roost at night.
-
-"When dey got on board de ship dey were tied until de ship got to sea;
-den dey was let loose to walk about 'cause dey couldn't jump overboard.
-On de ship dey had many strange things to eat, and dey liked dat. Dey
-was give enough red flannel to wrap around demselves. She liked it on de
-boat. Granny Judith born Millie, and Millie born me. No, I ain't never
-had no desire to go to Africa, kaise I gwine to stay whar I is.
-
-"Uncle Tom come 'long wid Granny Judith. Two womenfolks come wid dem,
-aunt Chany and Daphne. Aunt Chany and aunt Daphne was bought by de Frees
-dat had a plantation near Jonesville. Uncle Tom and 'Granny' was bought
-by Marse Jim Gist, but dere marsters allus 'lowed dem to visit on July
-4th and Christmas. When dey talk, nobody didn't know what dey was
-talking about. My granny never could speak good like I can. She talk
-half African, and all African when she git bothered. No, I can't talk no
-African.
-
-"After I was seventeen I did all kinds of hoeing and plowing and other
-farm work fer my marster. He said dat by dis time, his little niggers'
-bones had done got hard enough fer dem to work. We had a 'driver', a
-older person, dat showed us how to do everything right. Marse never let
-him over-work or hurry us. We liked him—'Uncle July Gist', we called
-him and dat was his real name, too. His wife, Aunty Sara, was good to
-us; dey both buried at Woodson's Chapel Baptist Church.
-
-"Fer my first task I had 1/4 of an acre in taters, 'bacca and
-watermelons de first year. Some of de boys had 'pinders, cantloupes and
-matises (tomatoes) in dere task of a 1/4 acre.
-
-"De next year, we made corn and sold it to our master fer whatever he
-give us fer it. All de use we had fer money was to buy fish hooks,
-barlows, juice harps and marbles. Boys did not use 'bacca den until dey
-got twenty-one or over. Marse allus carried a roll of money as big as my
-arm. He would come to de quarter on Christmas, July 4th and
-Thanksgiving, and get up on a stump and call all the chilluns out. Den
-he would throw money to 'em. De chilluns git dimes, nickles, quarters,
-half-dollars and dollars. At Christmas he would throw ten dollar bills.
-De parents would take de five and ten dollar bills in charge, but Marse
-made de let de chilluns keep de small change. I tell you, I ain't never
-seed so much money since my marster been gone. He buried at Fairforest
-Presbyterian Cemetery as white folks calls it, but we calls it Cedar
-Grove.
-
-"When he died, he had sixteen plantations, you can see dat at de
-courthouse in Union. All his darkies went in a drove of wagons to his
-burying. He was killed by dem Yankees in Virginny. Uncle Wylie Smith,
-his bodyguard, come back wid his body and told us dat Marse was kilt by
-a Yankee. Marse Jim was a sentinel, and dat Yankee shot him in his nose,
-but strange to say, it never tore his face up none. Miss Sara buried him
-in his uniform and she wrapped a Confederate flag over de top of de
-coffin. Uncle Wylie put Master's watch around Miss Sara's neck like he
-had done told him to do when he got home. Miss Sara cried and us cried,
-too. Jim never married and dat's why Miss Sara to do everything, kaise
-she was his sister what lived wid him.
-
-"Mr., I run on Broad River fer over 24 years as boatman, carrying Marse
-Jim's cotton to Columbia fer him. Us had de excitement on dem trips.
-Lots times water was deeper dan a tree is high. Sometimes I was throwed
-and fell in de water. I rise up every time, though, and float and swim
-back to de boat and git on again. If de weather be hot, I never think of
-changing no clothes, but just keep on what I got wet. Five niggers allus
-went on Marse's boat. One man steer de boat and of course he was de
-steerman, and dat what he went by. I recollects two steermans, Bradley
-Kennedy and Andy McCluny. Charlie Gilliam was de second steerman, by dat
-I means dat he de young nigger dat Bradley and Andy had to break in.
-
-"Sometimes Marster have three flat boats a-gwine down at one time, and I
-has recollections of as many as five a-gwine from our plantation; dat
-was not so often, though. Us had long poles to steer de boats wid; den
-dere was some paddles, and some of de niggers was called privates dat
-handled de cotton and used de paddles when dey had to be used. You knows
-dat batteaus was what dey always used de paddles wid. Privates did de
-shoving and other heavy work. De seconds and de privates allus shoved
-wid de poles when de water was rough, and de steerman give orders. I was
-allus a boatman.
-
-"Charlie Gilliam acted as boatman, some; and den de other boatmen was:
-Bill Hughes, Warren Worthy, Green Stokes and John Glenn. Dey made de
-poles to suit de job. Some of de poles was longer dan others was. Some
-of dem was broad and flat at de end; others was blunt and others was
-made sharp. When de Broad River rose, sometimes de waves got higher dan
-my house dar. Den it was a real job to handle one of Marse's boats. Fact
-is, it was five men's jobs. Wid water a-roaring and a-foaming and
-a-gwine round you like a mad tiger a-blowing his breath, so dat you was
-feer'd (scared) dat all your marster's cotton gwine to be spilt, you had
-to be up and a-doing something real fast. Sometimes dat river take your
-boat round and round like a merry-go-round, 'til you git so
-swimmy-headed dat you have to puke up all de victuals dat you done eat.
-Den it swing from dat whirl into a swift stream dat take you a mile a
-minute, yes sir, a mile a minute fer I don't know how fer.
-
-"Den you see a tree a-coming right straight to you. If de boat hit dat
-tree, you knowed dat you be busted into a million pieces. You had to git
-your poles and somebody had to let a pole hit dat tree ahead of de boat.
-Of course dat change de boat's course from de tree and you went sailing
-on by. Once in a freshet us raced twenty-five miles in twenty-five
-minutes. Marse Jim was wid us dat time, and he tole us so by his watch.
-De water a-jumping real high and dat boat a-jumping still wusser made me
-so skeer't dat I just shake in my knees and all de way up and down my
-legs.
-
-"On dis trip we had went plumb up in North Carolina. Us never had been
-dat fer up befo'. I ain't never seed North carolina befo'; neither is I
-seed it since. Broad River was real narrow when we went up and she look
-like a lamb; but when we come down it had done and tuck and rained and
-dem banks was vanished ... but dat water sho did rare up dar to git back
-in its regular channel. De rocks up dar was mo' scary looking dat dey is
-whar it run through Union to Columbia. Dat night we run into a nine-mile
-shoal. Couldn't none de niggers keep dat boat off'n dat shoal it was so
-powerful ... dat is, de water just tuck dat boat plumb smack out'n our
-hands. But it throwed our boat in shallow water and of course dat made
-it drag. Good dat it never drug over no sharp rocks—and dey was setting
-all around us—but it happened dat it hit sand. We camped dar fer de
-night. By morning we had done go a quarter mile from de channel.
-
-"When we et (ate), we worked de boat out into de main channel again. Den
-we staked her to a tree and tuck a look around befo' we started down
-stream fer Union; dat seemed fer off right den. Finally de master
-boatman give de order, 'Shove off, boys!' We shoved and we fell into a
-clear open channel and our boat went a-skeeting down stream. We never
-had to hit a lick, but she went so fast dat we was all skeer'd to take a
-long breath. Finally Marster said, 'Boys, see dem willow trees down
-yonder; well, steer her to run over dem so dat she will slack her
-speed.' Us did, but it never deadened our speed a mite, dat us could
-see. Marster shake his head and 'low, 'Bound fer hell, maybe, boys'.
-
-"Got to Cherokee Falls, wid water so high couldn't tell no falls dar.
-Marster say, 'Lay her to de right, we can't wreck dis boat widout
-putting up a honest man's fight.' Den he say, 'If us does, us'll sho go
-to hell.' We tried to swing her by grabbing to a big willow, and we
-broke a lot of limbs in trying, but we did swing her and she run a 100
-yards widout steering, and de boat landed on a little mountain of land.
-Marse 'low, 'Ain't never seed sech a ocean of water since I was eighteen
-years old, damn if I have.' He look at me and say, 'Don't know whether
-Dick scared or not, but he sho is a brave man.' I was a-setting my feets
-on land den, and I look at him and 'low, 'No sir, I ain't skeer't, why I
-could come over dat little place in my bateau.' Truth is, dat I was so
-skeer't dat I wasn't skeert. We lay over a day and a half. De water had
-done receded back some, and we come 27 miles down to Lockhart Shoals in
-dat one day. De water was still so high dat we run over de shoals widout
-a tremor. Come sailing on down to Fish Dam and went over de Fish Dam and
-never knowed dat it was dar. Den we landed at de road wid everybody safe
-but still scar't.
-
-"Dar was two Charlie Gilmores ... one was kil't right below Fish Dam. He
-was hit in de head by a private. When de private was cutting de boat,
-Charlie got in de way of de pole and it hit him in one of his temples
-and he fell over in de water dead. When dey got him, wasn't narry drap
-of water in his lungs, dat's how-come us knowed dat he was kil't
-straight out. Some says dat he was hit in de y'er (ear), but anyway it
-was on a tender spot and de lick sho done him up. Nothing wasn't done to
-de private, kaise it was all accidental and Marse and everybody felt
-sorry fer him.
-
-"On river trips, we took rations sech as meat, bread and cabbage, and us
-cotch all de fish dat we wanted and had coffee. We each took day in and
-day out to cook, dat is, all dem dat could half-way cook did
-dat."
-
-Wesley Jones
-============
-
- | **Interview with Wesley Jones**
- | **Rt. 2, Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Yes sir, I drinks jes' a leetle likker, and I drinks it—I don't let it
-drink me. One call fer another. Dar it goes 'till you be's drunk. I is
-97 years old and I ain't never been drunk in my life. No sir-ee, nobody
-ain't never saw me drunk. It sho drink some of 'em though.
-
-"Heep o' stars fell when I was young. Dey fell regular fer a minute er
-so. I laid down fer a nap and de niggers woke me up a hollering. Ev'y
-darky was scared, but it sho was a pretty sight.
-
-"I 'members de earthquake, too. De earth shake and tremble so hard dat
-some loose bricks fell out my chimney and de pitcher fell off de
-winder-sill down on de flo'. I was 'bout 50 years old den, if I 'members
-correct. Dat come 'long in 1886.
-
-"I also 'members Gen. Wade Hampton, when I was a building up de
-breastworks to keep de Yankees from shooting us. Dem was scary times,
-but de Ku Klux days was scary times de most.
-
-"My young marster, Dr. Johnny Hill, used to have me drive him to
-Padgett's Creek Church. Sometime us go to de Quaker church, den agin, us
-go to church over in Goshen Hill.
-
-"'Bout fus' thing my white folks had me a-doing, was gwine fer de papers
-up to de sto' at Sardis. I would git a lot o' letters, fer in dem days,
-de white folks rit letters to one another mo' dan dey does now. I guess
-dese days de mos' writing dat is done is business writing. At de Sardis
-sto' dey used to give big barbecues. Dem days barbecues was de mos'
-source of amusement fer ev'ybody, all de white folks and de darkies de
-whole day long. All de fiddlers from ev'ywhars come to Sardis and fiddle
-fer de dances at de barbecues. Dey had a platform built not fer from de
-barbecue table to dance on. Any darky dat could cut de buck and de
-pigeon wing was called up to de platform to perform fer ev'ybody.
-
-"Night befo' dem barbecues, I used to stay up all night a-cooking and
-basting de meats wid barbecue sass (sauce). It made of vinegar, black
-and red pepper, salt, butter, a little sage, coriander, basil, onion,
-and garlic. Some folks drop a little sugar in it. On a long pronged
-stick I wraps a soft rag or cotton fer a swab, and all de night long I
-swabs dat meat 'till it drip into de fire. Dem drippings change de smoke
-into seasoned fumes dat smoke de meat. We turn de meat over and swab it
-dat way all night long 'till it ooze seasoning and bake all through.
-
-"Lawyer McKissick and Lawyer A.W. Thompson come out and make speeches at
-dem barbecues. Both was young men den. Dey dead now, I living. I is 97
-and still gwine good. Dey looked at my 'karpets' (pit stakes). On dem I
-had whole goats, whole hogs, sheep and de side of a cow. Dem lawyers
-liked to watch me 'nint' dat meat. Dey 'lowed I had a turn fer ninting
-it (annointing it)."
-
-Sallie Layton Keenan
-====================
-
- | **Interview with Sallie Layton Keenan, 80 yrs. old**
- | **20 Calhoun St., Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-'Aunt' Sallie (80 yrs. old) and 'Uncle' Robert live with their grandson.
-A daughter lives nearby. They like to tell of the days when they were
-children:
-
-"Land o' de libbin, my maw, she wuz one o' de Hughes and Giles niggers.
-She used to lob to set down by de fire an' tell us younguns 'bout de
-times what de had down dar on de big ribber (Broad River). Our
-plantation, she used to say, wuz de one what de white folks called Mt.
-Drury. But when maw wuz rael young, jus big enough to wait on de fine
-white ladies, she wuz put on de 'block', you nos what dat wuz, and sold
-to Marse 'Matt' Wallace. Marse Matt took it into his haed dat he wuz a
-gwine to a place what dey calls Arkansas. His white folks, specially his
-wife's, dem wuz de Mengs, dey riz up an put forth mighty powferul
-objections. Fer a long time he wuz jus onsettled in he mind 'bout zactly
-what he really wuz a gwine to do.
-
-"Peers to me like my maw 'lowed dat he sorter kept his intentions secret
-when he had rightly make up he mind 'bout de whole business. In dem days,
-dere wo'nt no trains like dare is now. Everbody had to ride in waggons,
-and de white ladies, dey allus rid in fine carriages. De chilluns, dey
-rid wid de wimmen folks. Our Marster, he rid high steppin' horse, cept
-on de Sabbath, when he rid wid de missus to meetin' house out on de
-creek. (Brown's Creek).
-
-"Anyhow, one cold mornin' not long fore Christmas and jus atter
-Thanksgivin' us sot out fore day, or dat is, my maw and pa did, kaise I
-wuz not born till we got to Mississippi River. Dar wuz fo' in de white
-folks carriage—I is heered Maw tell it a thousand times, over and
-over—In de carriage dar wuz Missus; and de fo' chilluns, Jeanette,
-Clough, Winter and Ida. Marse Matt, he rid de horse right by de side o'
-de carriage. Paw—de call him 'Obie', he driv a waggin wid all de little
-nigger chaps in it dat wuz too little to walk. De big nigger boys and
-gals dat wuz strong, dey walked. De roads wuz jus narrow little trails
-wide enough fer de carriage and de waggin to git through de lims o' de
-trees. Dey would hit you in de face iffin you didn't duck 'em, so maw
-allus 'lowed. Dey had pack mules dat fetched along de supplies, fer dey
-had to spen' de night in de thick woods what nebber had been cut. All
-kinds er varmints used to git atter dem and maw 'lowed dat dey wuz scared
-when dey sot camp, and she used to tremble mo' den she slep. When she
-did sleep, she 'lowed dat she drempt de awful varmints wuz a gittin'
-atter her. De missus, she wuz scared at night too. Marse Matt, he 'lowed
-he warn't one bit scared, but maw sat dat Missus say he jump powerful in
-he sleep sometimes.
-
-"Marse Matt had done sot a task of so many miles fer dem to travel from
-sun-up to sundown, but maw 'lowed dat dey nebber did hardly git dat fer.
-De pack mules would git short winded, and sometime de carriage horses,
-dey would git lame; or one o' de waggin wheels would take and break; or
-it wuz allus some bad luck er follerin atter dem. Den Marse Matt, he
-'lowed dat he didn't believe in no travelin' signs, and 'cause o' dat, maw
-'lowed dat dey had de worsest kind o' luck. Dat is de reason dat de train
-did not git no further than 'Promoter' County, Miss. (Mr. Wallace really
-went to Como, Desoto County, Miss., verified by Mrs. J. Clough Wallace).
-It took dem fo' weeks to reach 'Promotor'. Dar dey set up de new home.
-Maw 'lowed dat dey wuz called tender feeted poineers by dem what had got
-dar ahead of dem. Peers like maw 'lowed dat dey stayed dar five year.
-Anyway de fus year, a lot o' de niggers tuck all manner o' ailiments and
-dey died. De Missus, she kept full o' cold in dat log house. Dey had
-a fine house here, you nos de house what Miss Roberta Wallace libs in,
-well, dat wuz de one, cepin it wuz not as fine as Miss Roberta got it
-now. Anyway, maw and paw, dey didn't like it no better dan missus, cepin
-dey wuz skeered to speak dere minds. Finally, de Marster, he tuck down
-sick, and in spite o' all dat Missus do fer him, maw 'lowed he kept a
-growin' worser and worser till he tuck and died one bad night. Missus,
-'Dandy' de Marster allus called her, had got so broke down wid worry and
-sorrow, dat she wuz nigh to death's door, herself, when de Marster died,
-maw said. Fer dat reason, dey kept it from her fer two weeks. Dey
-thought dat she wuz gwine to have de pneumonia, like him, but she started
-to gittin' well fore she tuck de pneumonia. Maw said dat dey used all o'
-de ole nigger remedies on de Missus dat dey knowed and fer dat reason
-dey brung her through. Maw is told me dem remedies but I is so ole
-now, dat I jus remembers dem. If Bob wuz at hisself he could give you
-some. You come by here some day when de moon is right and den Bob'll be
-in his right mind to tell you some o' dem.
-
-"De Missus, she come back powerful slow, and it wuz mi' nigh
-Thanksgiving when she got strong. It wuz so cold dat she used to 'low how
-she wish fer her paws big warm fire, and de Carolina sunshine. So one
-bad morning, she took and got a letter from her paw in Union. He axed
-her to fetch us all back here to Union. It had done tuck de letter over
-three weeks to git to her. Long fore de Marster had died he had gib up
-hope er gwine to Arkansas. When dat letter rive, maw 'lowed dat de Missus
-she tuck and started to cryin'. All dat day she cry and read it over an
-over. De very next morning she called up all us, I wuz born den, and maw
-'lowed dat I wuz a carrin' a sugar tit in my mouf and dat I had de cooter
-bones round my neck. Course I disremembers all cept dat what I is been
-told over and over. When maw and paw went out dar, dey had one little
-chile. He wuz six years ole when dey got back here. One had done tuck
-and died fore dey lef here. Den me and my sister, we wuz born in Miss.
-
-"Dat wuz one glad day fer us, kaise Missus 'lowed dat she wuz a gwine
-back to her paw in Union. All de niggers, dey started to dancing and a
-hollerin' like dey wuz wile. Maw 'lowed dat some folks dat libbed three
-miles away tuck and come to see us. Some o' dem called us slackers, er
-sometin' kaise we wuz a leavin'; but others, maw 'lowed, dat dey wished
-dey could go as fer as Georgia wid us. But I is nebber liked Georgia
-myself. Missus gib de orders fer us to begin packin' and maw said dat de
-way dem niggers worked wuz a dyin' sin. De Missus, she sell her mules
-and other stock, kaise we wuz a gwine to ride all de way back on de
-railroad train. It had jus broke through to Miss. Some o' de ole niggers
-'lowed dat dey wuz feered to ride on dem things, bein' as dey wuz drawed
-by fire. Dey thought de debbil, he wuz a workin' in de inside of dem.
-Maw 'lowed dat if de Missus wuz not feered she would not be. De Missus
-was feered 'bout dem dat wuz not gwine to ride on de train, but when she
-'lowed dat dey could jus stay in Miss. Maw said dat dey nebber did hear
-no mo''bout dem bein' feered o' de train.
-
-"Maw and paw allus tole me 'bout de things what I did on de train. I wuz
-so young dat I jus remembers anything about dat. She 'lowed dat she tuck
-de cooter bones from my neck fore we started to de train. Maw 'lowed dat
-when de train come up, dey wuz so scairt dat we did not want to git on
-till she did. All de niggers wuz looked up to when dey got back here,
-maw 'lowed, kaise no niggers in Union had ebber rid on de train ceptin
-dem dat had rid fer as Alston, and dey wuz so few dat you could count
-dem on your hand.
-
-"Missus 'Dandy' come right back to her paw's house. He wuz Mr. Clough
-Meng. Missus Dandy's little boy, Clough, wuz big enough to go to school
-when dey got back. It wuz Christmas when dey got to 'Promotor' County,
-and it wuz Christmas when us rive back.
-
-"When my paw, 'Obie', wuz a courtin, a nigger put a spell on him kaise
-he was a wantin' my maw too. De nigger got a conjure bag and drapped it
-in de spring what my paw drunk water from. He wuz laid up on a bed o'
-rheumatiz fer six weeks. Dey all knowed dat he wuz conjured. He could
-not even set up when his victuals wuz fetched to him. So his brother
-knowed who had put de spell on him. He tuck and went to another old
-conjure man and axed him to take dat spell off'n paw. De conjure man
-'lowed to paw's brother dat a grapevine growed over de spring, and fer
-him to go dar and cut a piece of it six feet long and fetch it to his
-house at night. When he tuck it to de conjure man's house, de conjure
-man, he took de vine in a dark place and done somethin to it—de Lawd
-knows what. Den he tole my paw's brother to take it home and give it to
-paw. De man what put de spell on paw, I mean de nigger what had it done,
-he come often and set down by paw and ax him what was ailen him. Our
-conjure man, he tole paw dat de nex time de man come an' set down by his
-bed, fer him to raise up on his lef elbow and rech down by his bed and
-take dat piece o' grapevine and hit de nigger over de head and face. Den
-atter he had done dat, our conjure man 'lowed dat paw could den rise up
-from his bed o' rheumatiz.
-
-"It wont long before de nigger come to visit my paw. My paw, he axed him
-real nice like to have a seat. His maw had done put a chair by de bed,
-so dat he would set down wid his face toward paw. Atter he and paw got
-to talkin, paw reched down an' axed him to have a look at de grapevine
-dat he was gwine to smoke fer his ailment. Dat nigger, he 'lowed to my
-paw dat it wuz not a goin to do his rheumatiz no good. Jus as he 'lowed
-dat, paw, he riz up on his lef shoulder and elbow and wid his right han'
-he let loose and come down over dat nigger's face and forehead wid dat
-grapevine. Dat nigger, he jump up and run out o' dat house a hollerin'
-kaise he knowed dat paw and done got de spell offin him. My paw got up
-de next day and dey 'lows dat he nebber did have no mo'
-rheumatiz."
-
-Ella Kelly
-==========
-
- | **Interview with Ella Kelly, 81 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"Yas sir, I was born a slave of Mr. Tom Rabb, they call him black Tom
-Rabb, 'cause dere was two other Tom Rabbs. Marster Tom's hair was jet
-black and even when he shave, whisker roots so black face 'pear black.
-Yas sir, I come to birth on his place two or three miles from Monticello
-in de country, so I did. They say de year was de year President Buchanan
-was president, though I dunno nuttin' 'bout dat.
-
-"My pappy name Henry Woodward, and b'long to old preacher Beelie
-Woodward's son, John. But all dis was just what I heard them say 'bout
-it. My mammy name Ella. She was de cook. I too little to work in slavery
-time, just hang 'round kitchen wid mammy, tote water and pick up chips,
-is all de work I done I 'members.
-
-"Money? Help me Jesus, No. How could I ever see it? In de kitchen I see
-none, and how I see money any where else, your honor? Nigger never had
-none! I ain't got any money now, long time since I see any money.
-
-"What did us eat? Dat's somethin' I knows 'bout. My mammy de cook for de
-white folks, wasn't I right dere at her apron strings all de time? Eat
-what de white folks eat, all de time, sho' I did! Too little to 'member
-much what slavery was like; can't tell nothin' 'bout clothes, never had
-no shoes. Us went to church some Sundays. Funny, them dat had not been
-good or done somethin' bad was kept at home by de white overseer, and
-some of them played wid de white chillun. Sorry I can't answer every
-question.
-
-"One story I 'member 'bout is de pa'tridges and de Savior. My pappy
-allowed de reason pa'tridges couldn't fly over trees was: One day de
-Savior was a-riding long on a colt to de Mount of Olive Trees, and de
-drove flewed up, make sich a fuss they scared de colt and he run away
-wid him. De marster put a cuss on de pa'tridges for dat, and ever since,
-they can't fly over tree tops. You reckon dat so boss? They say they
-never does fly over trees!
-
-"I had a good marster and mistress. When de slaves git sick, they 'tend
-to them same as one of their own chillun. Doctor come quick. They set up
-and fan you and keep de flies off. They wouldn't let de slaves do dis,
-'cause certain times you got to take medicine 'cordin' to doctors
-orders, and a slave might make a mistake. Oh, they was 'ticular 'bout
-sickness. They has a hard time wid some nigger chillun and dat cast' oil
-bottle, I tell you!
-
-"One of my young marsters was name Charlie. After freedom he marry one
-of Colonel Province's daughters and me and my mammy moved and lived wid
-them a while. Then I got married to Wates Kelly, and went to live and
-work for a white man 'bove White Oak. His name was Long John Cameron, de
-best white man to work for, but when Sat'day come and all de hands paid
-off, he git dat red hoss and turn and gallop to Winnsboro and bring back
-a passel of low down white trash wid him to de disturbment of all de
-good colored person on de place.
-
-"Yas sir, Klu Klux was a terror to certain colored persons. I 'members
-they come dressed up in white and false faces, passed on to de
-Richardson place and whipped somebody one night.
-
-"My husban' been dead twelve years. I's got thirteen chillun and Minnie
-is de onliest one livin' wid me in dis house. Her name Minnie Martin.
-Got whole lot of gran' chillun; they cover de earth from Charlotte to
-Jacksonville, and from Frisco to Harlem, New York; but never see them,
-just three, Franklin, Masie and Marie Martin.
-
-"I heard 'bout Lincoln and Booker T. Washington. De President now in de
-White House, Mr. Roosevelt, have done more good for de nigger in four
-years than all de other presidents since Lincoln, done in fifty years.
-You say its been seventy-two years? Well, than all de rest in
-seventy-two years. Don't you know dat is so? Yas sir, dats de gospel
-truth.
-
-"I's a member of de Baptist Church. Been buried wid my Lord in baptism
-and hope for a resurrection wid him in Beulah Land.
-
-"Yes, de overseer was de poor buckra, he was what you calls dis poor
-white trash. You know boss, dese days dere is three kind of people.
-Lowest down is a layer of white folks, then in de middle is a layer of
-colored folks and on top is de cream, a layer of good white folks.
-'Spect it'll be dat way 'till Jedgement day.
-
-"I got one boy name Ben Tillman, livin' in dis town. White folks calls
-him Blossom, but he don't bloom 'round here wid any money, though he is
-on de relief roll by sayin' he got a poor old mammy nigh a hundred years
-old and he have to keep her up. 'Spect when I gits my old age pension my
-chillun will pay me some little 'tention, thank God. Don't you know they
-will, sure they will."
-
-Martha Kelly
-============
-
- | **Interview with Martha Kelly (age between 70 and 75)**
- | **Marion, S.C.**
- | —*Annie Ruth Davis*
-
-"All I can tell you, I come here de second year of freedom. Cose I had a
-lot of trouble en I can' hardly imagine how long it be dat I de age I
-is. My mother, she know my age good, but she been dead for de years come
-en gone from here. Ain' much I can remember to tell you 'cause I was
-small den. No, my mammy didn' tell we chillun nothin. Didn' have no time
-to tell we chillun nothin. She had to go out en work in de field in de
-day en she would be tired when night come.
-
-"My mammy white people was name Charlie Law en his family en dey lived
-in Britton's Neck till dey come up here to Marion. We lived in a rice
-country down in dat place call Britton's Neck. Ain' you hear talk of it?
-My mammy en her chillun stayed right dere on old man Law's place till
-long time after dey tell dem dey was free to leave dere. Stayed to de
-nigger quarter in my mammy house 'cause we was learn to be field
-hands.—Harold, I told you hold off me 'cause I don' feel like you layin
-on me dis mornin.—(Harold—small grandson). Didn' know 'bout nothin much
-to eat in dat day en time, but bread en meat en rice en all such as dat.
-Oh, de peoples in dat country made plenty rice. Dey would plant it on
-dis here black lookin dirt en when dey would see dat it was right ripe,
-dey would cut it en thrash it out. Den dey would have one of dem pestle
-en mortar to beat it wid. My blessed, child, dat been turn out de nicest
-kind of rice. No, mam, don' see no such rice dese days dat been eat like
-dat rice eat.
-
-"I recollects I used to be right much of a hand to pull fodder en pick
-cotton en all such like dat 'cause all my work was in de field mostly
-till I got to de place dat I couldn' work no longer. You see, when I was
-married, I moved out dere on Dr. Miles' place over next Pee Dee en 'bout
-all my days was spent in de country. Lived out dere on Dr. Miles' place
-till I come here to town to live 'bout seven or eight years ago. You is
-hear talk of Dr. Miles, ain' you? I used to do what you might say a
-right good size washin, but I ain' able to get 'bout to do nothin dese
-days much. Just washes out a piece or two like a apron every now en den.
-
-"Some of de peoples used to sing dere, but I wouldn' never bear much
-along dat line. Didn' have no voice much to sing. Is you got dis one?
-
- | Lord, I wonder,
- | Lord, I wonder,
- | Lord, I wonder,
- |
- | (Repeat 3 Times)
- |
- | When de lighthouse
- | Gwine shine on me.
-
-"Dat all dere be to dat one. I don' know whe' if I could remember dat
-other one or no. Seem like it go somethin like dis:
-
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- | It rain 40 days,
- | En it rain 40 nights,
- | It ain' never stop a droppin yet,
- | En I heard de angel in de mornin sing,
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- |
- | But down by de graveyard,
- | Me en my Lord gwine stand en talk.
- | Up on de mountain fire en smoke,
- | I wouldn' be so busy 'bout de fire en smoke.
- | I heard de angel in de mornin sing,
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- |
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- | It rain 40 days,
- | En it rain 40 nights,
- | Widout still a droppin yet,
- | I heard de voice of de angel in de mornin sing,
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- |
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- | Down by de graveyard,
- | Me en my Lord gwine stand en talk.
- | Chillun, my good Lord,
- | I heard de voice of de moanin angel,
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- |
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
- | It rain 40 days,
- | En it rain 40 nights,
- | Widout still a droppin yet,
- | En I heard de voice of de angel in de mornin,
- | Oh, didn' it rain?
-
-"Well, dere ain' been so much dat I remember dat happen when I come
-along but what been happen in a way dis day en time. Cose dere been a
-difference 'cause de people ain' used to live fast like dey do dese days.
-Dere been de shake dat come here in '86 dat I ain' never see de like
-since en ain' want to see nothin like dat no more neither. I remember it
-come here on a night en when I get in bed dat night, I ain' been
-expectin nothin had been de matter. Den dere somethin been rouse me up
-en all de dishes was a rattlin'. When I get up en go out in de yard, de
-house en all de elements was a rockin'. Yes, mam, I was scared. Didn'
-know what was de matter. Thought it was de Jedgment comin when I wake up
-en hear all de people round 'bout dere screamin en a hollerin, Jedgment!
-Oh, Jedgment! Say dem what ain' right better get right. I tell de people
-dat dere won' no need to run to de church den 'cause we was all gwine be
-destroyed dere together. Child, I give myself up den en I get just as
-happy as I could be.
-
-"Oh, dey had slavery time doctors to tend de people when dey was sick in
-dat day en time. Yes, mam, had dey plantation doctor right dere dat
-would go from one plantation to de other en doctor dem what was ailin.
-De doctor would come dere to my white folks plantation en tell my
-grandmother what to feed dem on en she would give dem de remedy dey tell
-her. Dey would use all kind of different herbs in dat day en time dat
-dey would get out de old fields en de woods for dey cures. Honey, dey
-was good too en dey good yet. I couldn' tell you half de herbs dey use,
-but I recollects dere was boneset dat was good for fever, sage for de
-baby, pennyroyal dat was good for girls dat catch cold, mint for sick
-stomach, catnip to hope a cold, horehound to strike a fever en dat 'bout
-all I recollect. No, mam, I can' remember half de herbs dere was in de
-field, but I know we got some of dat sage growin dere in de garden now.
-
-"I hear talk of dem Yankees plenty times, but I don' know much to speak
-'bout dem. Couldn' tell de first word 'bout dem. I dis kind of person, I
-don' pay much mind to nothin like dat. Dey was white people, I think.
-
-"Seems like it was better livin long time ago den dere be now. Seems
-like times so tight dese days. Reckon it 'cause I ain' able to work, but
-dey tell me de people don' get nothin much to speak 'bout for dey work
-dis day en time. Seems like I got along good when I was able to whip
-round en 'bout.
-
-"I hear de people say dere such a thing as ghost, but I don' know en I
-ain' de kind to speak 'bout de devil business. I hear talk dey could be
-walkin right along wid you en dere some people could see dem en den dere
-others could look wid all de eyes dey got en couldn' see dem. No, I
-ain' never see dem. I has seen people wear one of dese dime round dey
-ankle, but I never didn' ax dem nothin 'bout what dey wear it for 'cause
-some people is curious en don' like for you to be axin dem 'bout things.
-I did always keep out of fuss en I still keepin out it. Never did bother
-none wid it. When I see anybody fussin, I shuns dem. My mammy didn'
-raise me to do dat."
-
-Mary Jane Kelley
-================
-
- | **Interview with Mary Jane Kelley (85)**
- | **Newberry, S.C.**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I live in a rented house wid my daughter who takes care of me. I was
-born in de Santuc section. My pa and ma was Richard Dawkins and Marsha
-Shelton Dawkins. I think dey lived wid de Hendersons in de Maybinton
-section near Broad River, but dey lived wid Marse Bill Jeter near Santuc
-when I was born. My husband was Ike Kelley, he been dead good many
-years.
-
-"Marse whipped me once or twice. We had to work in de cotton fields, and
-I have split rails and ditched like men, too.
-
-"We had home-raised meat, lots of hogs and cattle. Marse had a big
-garden and we got lots of vegetables. Marse fed slaves in a trough in de
-yard. He had his own smokehouse whar he cured his meat. His flour was
-ground in de neighborhood. Sometimes he give a slave family a small
-patch to plant watermelons in.
-
-"We wore heavy brogans wid brass toes. Sometimes Marse would make his
-own leather and have shoes made in de neighborhood and dese would have
-wooden bottoms. He never let us learn to read and write. He never
-allowed us to go from one place to another unless it was on his place.
-De patrollers would git us if we didn't have a pass; even if we went to
-church wid white folks we had to have a pass. Niggers didn't have no
-church till atter de war; den dey built brush arbors in de woods.
-
-"I married at my house. We is Baptists, and I used to go and see dem
-baptize sinners.
-
-"We used to go home at night when de work was over and go to bed and
-rest. We worked all day on Saturdays, but never worked on Sundays. On
-Christmas Days we had off, and Marse would give us good things to eat
-and some whiskey to drink.
-
-"My mother worked around de house in slavery time, she helped cook,
-clean up and wash dishes, and sometimes she would card, spin and weave.
-
-"Dey used to make a yellowish dye from mud, a grayish dye from maple
-tree bark and a brownish dye from walnut tree bark. We allus planted by
-de signs or de scales. Irish potatoes, turnips and sweet potatoes we
-planted in de dark of de moon; while beans was planted in de sign of de
-craw-fish.
-
-"I remember when de Yankees come through atter de war. Dey stole
-everything and burned up everything dey couldn't steal. De Ku Klux was
-in our section. Dey killed lots of niggers around dar.
-
-"I don't remember anything about Abraham Lincoln nor Jefferson Davis,
-only heard about dem. I don't know much about Booker Washington,
-either."
-
-Gabe Lance
-==========
-
- | **Interview with Uncle Gabe Lance, age 77**
- | **Sandy Island, Murrells Inlet, S.C.**
- | —*Genevieve W. Chandler*
-
-*BORN AND LIVING ON SANDY ISLAND*
-
-"Great Peace! Missus, have to study up that!"
-
-Uncle Gabe had just arrived from Sandy Island at the country
-post-office, having rowed over for his month's supply of sugar and
-coffee and things he cannot raise. After the five or six mile row he
-must needs walk three miles to the office.
-
-"I could remember when the Yankee boats come to Montarena—gun-boats.
-'Bout ten o'clock in the morning. Soldier all muster out and scatter all
-over the island. You know that cause-er-way? Gone over that two by two,
-gun on shoulder glisten gainst the sun! Blue-coats, blue pants, hat all
-blue. Come back to landing 'bout five o'clock. Have hog, geese, duck!
-Broke in barn. Stole rations from poor people. My Grandfather the
-Driver—slave Driver. Name Nelson. Maussa—Frank Harriott. Maussa gone
-in swamp. Hid in woods. My Grandfather take old Miss Sally—Miss Sally
-Harriott—count she couldn't walk with rheumatism—Grandfather took old
-Miss Sally on he back to hid 'em in the woods where Maussa. Yankee stay
-but the one day. Ravage all over us island. All goat, hog, chicken,
-duck, geese—all the animal but the cow been take on the Yankee gun
-boat. They broke in Maussa big rice barn and share all that out to the
-colored folks.
-
-"Some my people run away from Sandy Islant. Go Oaks sea-shore and
-Magnolia Beach and take row-boat and gone out and join with the Yankee.
-Dem crowd never didn't come back.
-
-"Any slave run way or didn't done task, put 'em in barn and least cut
-they give 'em (with lash) been twenty-five to fifty. Simply 'cause them weak
-and couldn't done task—couldn't done task! 'Give 'em less rations to
-boot! Cut 'em down to
-
- | 1 qt. molasses
- | 1 lb. meat
- | 1 pk. corn for a week
-
-"Good Master all right. Give plenty to eat. Reasonable task. Task dem
-time one-fourth to one half acre. Ditching man ten compass. Got to slush
-'em out. Got to bail that water out till you kin see track.
-
-"All dem rice-field been nothing but swamp. Slavery people cut kennel
-(canal) and dig ditch and cut down woods—and dig ditch through the raw
-woods. All been clear up for plant rice by slavery people.
-
-"Beat my Pa and Ma to death and turn me loose! Ought to take care 'o me!
-I send off my 35 ct. fust (first) time, next time twenty-five cents I put
-what little I have in it. Ain't hear no answer. Some ten or fifteen head
-round here send off blank and don't get no hearing! Take what little I have
-and don't send me nothing 'TALL! I tired with that now! Ain't had a hearing!"
-(Referring to 'old age compensation').
-
-Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence
-=======================
-
- | **I**
- | **Interview with Ephriam Lawrence**
- | **Edisto Island, S.C.**
- | —*C.S. Murray*
-
-"I don't 'member much 'bout slavery time 'cause I been lee (little) boy
-when war declare. I raise up under de Murray—all my generation belong
-to de Murray. Dey know how to treat slave. Ain't lick um much, hardly
-any. Chillun hab easy time. All I been require to do was tote coal to
-Mosser when he ready fer light. Adam Mack and me, we been de fire boy.
-Mosser gib Adam to Mister Eberson. I ain't gib to nobody—'specially.
-
-"All white people ain't treat slave good. Some make um wuk haa'd all
-day, and 'cuss um plenty. De slave who been live near Steamboat Landing
-had rough time when dere old Miss git in tantrum. She been 'nuse to
-trabbel all over de world, and when she come back, she call all de slave
-together, and say: 'When I come, de debbil come.'
-
-"We family ain't had all dat to worry 'bout. Behave yourself and you all
-right. Plenty to eat, plenty to drink. Run 'round and enjoy yourself if
-you got uh mind to. Wuk when you wuk, play when you play. Ole Miss 'nuse
-to 'tend all de sick nigger. Go from house to house, wid lee pair of
-scale and bottle ram jam pack of calomel. Give lee nigger big dose of
-castor oil, and dey git well quick, mighty quick.
-
-"Old Mosser 'nuse to keep all de likker in de world on hand. Had to keep
-plenty, 'cause he friend drink lot and nigger drink lot too. He ain't
-drink so much heself. Old nigger been live on de place call John Fraser,
-same one I tell you 'bout, dat cut all dem tree down. John sure been
-slick. When Mosser call fer he fine likker to hand 'round, John come
-back and tell him all gone. Mosser want to know why. John make reply:
-'Why, Mosser you know you hab Mister Binyard to supper last night and he
-finish all dat good stuff. You know how Mr. Binyard drink. Sometime he
-drink when your back t'un (turned). How you 'speck um to last?' Mosser
-scratch he haid, and say, yes he know how Mr. Binyard drink, and mebbe
-dats why de last bottle empty. He ain't satisfy, but he can't prove dat
-John drink um.
-
-"Mosser 'nuse to keep de whiskey down in de cellar by de barrel, and he
-draw um off in bottle when he need um and take um upstair to de wine
-room. De nigger dat wuk 'round de house and de yaa'd, help dem self out
-de barrel when dey feel tired. Mosser 'spect dem to do dat—dey 'title
-(entitle) to um. Whiskey been kinder ration in dem day.
-
-"Nigger jest know haa'd time now. Ain't been dat way when I been lee
-boy. You ain't lacking fer nutting den dat you really need. No tussling
-'bout fer yourself and knock 'round from pillar to post. If we need
-anything slavery time we ax (ask) fer um—make we want known. Any
-feeling ably white man who hab slave, gib we what we need. No puzzling
-'tall (at all).
-
-"Ain't I tell you 'bout dat time when John Fraser take overcoat from
-Mosser right on Meeting Street? No. Well, it been uh cold day, and
-Mosser tell John Fraser to meet him on de corner Meeting and Broad wid
-de overcoat, 'cause he going out dat night and he want 'um. John been
-wid Abel Wright, and de two of dem walk down de street to meet de Major.
-John say to Abel: 'I cold as de debbil, and I going to ax Mosser fer he
-coat.' Abel say: 'You crazy. He send for um and he sure ain't going, to
-gib you he good new coat anyhow.' John say: 'You wait and see.'
-
-"Soon Mosser come in sight. When he see John he git mad right off 'cause
-John hab on he overcoat. Before he kin say uh wud (word) John speak up
-fast. He say: 'Yes, Mosser I got on your coat 'cause it mighty cold. Got
-to excuse old nigger. You hab 'nother coat. I ain't got nutting but dis
-here jumper. Go on home Mosser and git torrer (the other) coat. I going
-to keep dis. He jest fit me. Go on home.'
-
-"Mosser study fer uh while, den he laugh. He see how keen de coat fit
-John, and he know it been cold sure 'nough. John look sekker (just like)
-dress up monkey in dat long tail overcoat, and dat make de Major laugh
-all de more. So he tu'n round and go home, and John hab dat coat till he
-die.
-
-"Old Mosser scarcely going to deny you nutting, if he like you."
-
- | **II**
- | **Interview with Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence, about 80, farmer and laborer**
- | **Edisto Island, S.C.**
- | —*C.S. Murray*
-
-Mike Lawrence belonged to what he calls "de Murray state" in slavery
-times. He was one of Major William Meggett Murray's "fire boys", who was
-charged with the specific duty of bringing live coals to the master
-whenever he wanted to light his pipe. Mike was only a small lad when war
-was declared, but he remembers numerous stories relating to "Maussa's
-niggers", some of which are worth recording. He speaks from first hand
-knowledge, he says, for the things that he tells about happened during
-his childhood and still stand out clearly in his mind.
-
-Here is one of Mike's stories:
-
-"Old John Drayton was de smaa'test of all de nigger de Maussa place. He
-wuk so haa'd some time dat Maussa jest got to stop him, or he kill
-heself. I nebber see sech uh man fer wuk in all my life. Maussa t'ink uh
-lot ob um, 'cause he been uh good field hand, beside know lot 'bout
-cutting 'ood (wood) and building fence. What been more old John play fer
-all de dance on de plantation. He fair (really) mek fiddle talk. When
-Maussa gib uh dance he always call 'pon John.
-
-"Yas, suh dat man sure could play. W'en he saw down on de fiddle and
-pull out dat june (tune) 'Oh, de Monkey Marry to de Babboon Sister,' he
-mek paa'son (parson) dance.
-
-"One day more dan all, Maussa Murray send wud (word) to John dat de cow
-der break out ob de pasture, and he got to mend de fence quick. But
-John done promise some nigger on Fenwick Island to play fer uh dance,
-and he steal paa't (path) and go. (This expression means to go away by
-stealth). Dat been Friday night and Maussa say John got to finish de
-fence by sundown the next day.
-
-"W'en Old John ain't show up Saturday morning, Maussa ax eberybody where
-he been and de nigger all band togedder (together) and tell Maussa dat
-dey see him leabe in uh boat to go fish and he ain't seen since. Maussa
-been worry sure 'nough den 'cause he t'ink John might be drown'. He 'gage
-(engage) four man to shoot gun all ober creek to mek John body rise.
-Atter dat day drag all 'bout in de gutter.
-
-"Maussa gone bed wid heaby haa't (heart) 'cause he been very fond ob Old
-John.
-
-"John come back from Fenwick Island early Monday morning and 'fore day
-clean he in de 'odd der cut fence rail. Now, one hundred rail been call
-uh good day wuk, but Old John decide he going to do better den dat. He
-find fibe (five) tree grow close togedder, and he cut piece out ob every
-one. Den he chop at the biggest tree till he fall, and dat tree knock
-all de rest ober wid um.
-
-"W'en all dem tree fall togedder, it make sech uh noise, dat ole Maussa
-hear um in he bed, and hasten to dress so he kin see w'at der go on in
-de woods.
-
-"Maussa saddle de horse and ride 'till he git to de center ob de noise
-and dere he see Old John cutting 'way like he crazy. Maussa been mad
-sure 'nough, but den he glad to see John ain't drown'. He staa't to say
-some t'ing but Old John interrupt, and sing out: 'Go 'way Maussa, I
-ain't got time to talk wid you now.'
-
-"Old John den gather up five ax, and go to de five tree laying down on
-de ground. He dribe uh ax in ebery tree and den grab uh neaby maul. W'en
-Maussa look on, he tek de maul and run from one tree to torrer (one to
-the other) and quick as he hit de ax, de tree split wide open. Maussa
-staa't to say some t'ing 'gain but John ain't let him talk. He say: 'Go
-on home to Missus, Maussa, I too 'shame, great God I too 'shame! Go on
-home.'
-
-"Maussa tun (turn) 'round in he track and go home widout uh wud, 'cause
-he see de old nigger ain't going to gib him any satisfaction 'bout
-Saturday. W'en he go back in de 'ood dat evening he check up and find
-dat Old John done cut five hundred rail. Oh, dem been man in dose day, I
-tell you."
-
-Ben Leitner
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Ben Leitner, 85 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"I see you go by de road de other day, on your way to old man Wade
-Jackson's house. 'Member de old fellow dat am paralyzed, de one dat
-lives beyond Fellowship graveyard? I was setten' in dat graveyard when
-you and Marse Thomas pass in de automobile. I 'quire nex' day where you
-was a goin', then Marse Thomas say you goin' 'round doin' sumpin' 'bout
-old slaves and 'spect you'd like to see me. So here I is.
-
-"Well, I's knowed you since you was knee-high and Marse Thomas say,
-maybe you help me to get a pension. If you can't, nobody can.
-
-"I was born a slave of old Marse Robin Brice, not far from New Hope
-A.R.P. Church. My mistress was name Miss Jennie. My young marsters' was:
-Marse John, Marse Chris, and Marse Tom. Marse Tom been a little runt;
-they call him Tom Shanty. Him got to be a member of de Legislature,
-after de war. All them went to de 'Federate War. Deir sister, Amanda,
-marry Marse Bill Kitchen. You 'member him, don't you? Course you does.
-
-"'Member dat day baseball fust come out and they got up a team, not a
-team then; they called it a 'Nine', when de game fust come to woodward
-section? If you ketch a ball on de fust bounce, dat was a 'out'. No sich
-thing as a mask for de face, gloves for de hands, and mats to protect
-your belly. No curves was allowed, or swift balls throwed by de pitcher.
-Him have to pitch a slow dropball. De aim than was to see how far a
-batter could knock de ball, how fast a fellow could run, and how many
-tallies a side could make. Mighty poor game if de game didn't last half
-a day and one side or de other make forty tallies.
-
-"Marse Bill Kitchen was workin' in de store of his brudder-in-law, Marse
-John A. Brice. Him was called out to make one of de 'Nines'. Him went to
-de bat, and de very fust lick, him knock de ball way over center field.
-Everybody holler: 'Run Kitchen! Run Kitchen! Run Kitchen!' Marse Bill
-stand right dere wid de bat; shake his head and long black whiskers and
-say: 'Why should I run? I got two more licks at dat ball!' They git de
-ball, tech him and de umpire say: 'Out'. Marse Bill throw de ball down
-and say; 'D—n sich a game!' Folks laugh 'bout dat 'til dis day.
-
-"My daddy name Bill Leitner. Him never b'long to Marse Robin. Him b'long
-to Marse John Partook Brice. Mammy b'long to Marse Robin. Her name
-Sarah. Daddy have to have a pass to come to see mammy.
-
-"My brudders and sisters was Eliza, Aleck, and Milton. Patrollers whup
-daddy one time when they come to de house and find him widout a pass.
-Marster have mammy whup us chillun, when us need a whuppen. Her milk de
-cows, churn, and 'tend to de milk, butter and dairy. I helped her wid de
-cows and calves, and churnin'.
-
-"You ask me is I had plenty to eat? Sure I did, wid all dat milk 'round
-me all de time. Best thing I 'member right now was runnin' my finger
-'round de jar where de cream cling, and suckin' it off my fingers.
-
-"Marster took good care of his slaves. They never went hungry or cold.
-
-"My marster and mistress live in a big two-story house. Us live in
-little log house, wid log chimneys. I 'members fightin' chinches in de
-summertime and fleas all de time. I wore a asafetida bag 'round my neck,
-when a child to keep off croup, measles, diphtheria, and whoopin' cough.
-Marster send for Dr. Walter Brice when any slave get very ill.
-
-"De fust year of freedom I work for Marse Chris Brice. Been wid de
-Brices all my life. Now livin' on Marse Tom Brice's place.
-
-"When de Yankees come, they ramsack de house for silver and gold. They
-burn de house and gin-house; carry off mules, hosses, and cows. They
-took de chickens, load all de provisions, put them in a four-hoss waggin,
-and leave us and de white folks cold and hungry. It was cold winter time
-then too.
-
-"I marry a ginger cake lady, one-fourth white, daughter of Louis Grier.
-Tho' I ain't much on looks as you sees me today, dat gal often, befo'
-and after de weddin', put her arms 'bout me and say: 'Ben you is de
-han'somest man I ever have see in de world.'
-
-"Us had three chillun. My wife led me to de light of de Lord. I jined de
-Red Hill Baptist Church, under de spell of Peter Cook's preachin' and my
-wife up in de choir a singin': 'Give me dat old time Religion.' Preacher
-Miller is my pastor now. Peter Cook dead and gone to glory long years
-ago. I 'members now dat old preacher's warm hand, when he took my hand
-dat night I jined. Him say: 'God give you a life to live. You have a
-soul to save. God give you His Son to save dat soul. Glory be His
-name!."
-
-Mary Ann Lipscomb
-=================
-
- | **Interview with Mrs. Mary Ann Lipscomb**
- | **Gaffney, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-*REMINISCENCES*
-
-"My husband, Nathan Lipscomb, was over on Mt. Pleasant fighting, and I
-had been over there to see him. He was a private in the rear ranks. When
-we were coming back to Charleston on a rice steamer, an open boat, the
-Yankees were shelling the town. I played with my fingers in the water of
-the bay as the steamer went along. We landed at a different landing from
-the one where we had started from. When I got off the steamer I was very
-much frightened, for they had shot through the hotel where we were
-staying.
-
-"We immediately left the city by train. I hated to leave my husband so
-far behind, but I could do nothing about it. In that day the train used
-only wood for fuel. Only two trains a day came from Columbia to
-Charleston. They made about 18 miles per hour, but that was good
-traveling at that time.
-
-"My brother, Thomas Wilkins, went through the war. My father, Russell,
-and Richard were in training when the surrender came. I stayed with my
-father at White Plains while my husband was off to war. When we heard
-that the Yankees were coming, we had the Negroes to hide all the horses
-but two, and to hide the cows and turn the hogs loose to ramble in the
-woods.
-
-"When the Yankees rode up to the yard and got off their horses, we could
-easily tell they had been drinking. We told them that our horses were in
-the stable and that the Negroes had fled in terror, which was true. They
-ate up everything they could find and ransacked the closets and pantry.
-They then caught the chickens, took the two horses in the stable and
-went away.
-
-"The darkies came back with the cows and horses, and we got settled for
-the night. About nine o'clock, the Yankees came unexpectedly and took
-all the horses and cows. They killed the cows, and made our darkies help
-them to butcher them and barbecue them. The Yankees soon ate everything
-up and left with our horses.
-
-"My grandmother, Agnes Wood, gave my mother, Elizabeth Wilkins, a
-beautiful young mare. The Yankee who took that mare, turned over a pot
-of fresh soap when my mother asked him not to take the mare. Our cook,
-Matilda, had the soap ready to cut in the pot, so we saved some of it.
-
-"During the second year of the war I was making me a homespun dress, and
-while my father helped me with the weaving he told me of a dress that
-one of his friends made during the Nullificatlon days. I carded and spun
-the filling for my new dress, wove it, made the dress and wore it to
-Charleston when I went to see my husband. It had broad, black stripes
-the width of my two fingers, and two green threads between the black
-stripes. It also had a little yellow stripe. It was really a beautiful
-dress and looked very much like silk."
-
-Govan Littlejohn
-================
-
- | **I**
- | **Interview with Govan Littlejohn**
- | **Park Ave. and Liberty St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Capt. Sam Littlejohn whipped Miss Sallie H.'s slave. His name was Ambus
-H. Cap' tied him to a tree. Never had no corn-shuckings, us shucked de
-corn quick as us hauled it from de field.
-
-"My marse kilt as many as twenty hogs every time he butchered, which be
-about fo' times every winter. Marse Richard Littlejohn never married. He
-lived wid his mother and seven brothers.
-
-"Marse was one good man and he love his darkies. He never had no
-overseer, because he had only 'bout 80 slaves as I remembers. I de
-onliest chile dat my ma had and I be 88 if I live to see dis coming
-December. My ma teach me to fight nothing in dis world but de devil.
-
-"My father was Peter Littlejohn. Lawyer Tommie Dawkins was his marster.
-I never was sold. I married, but never had no chilluns. My old lady been
-gone over de river dese many years, so many dat I cannot recall how
-many. Yes Sir, I used to light my ma's pipe and wear home-made clothes.
-Ole lady Rhoda was de seamstress. She died not long atter we was
-liberated.
-
-"I lives in de Woods Funeral Home which is on de corner of Park Ave. and
-Liberty Street. Once I befriend a man in distress. He now own interest
-in de undertaking 'stablishment and dat is why I has a room dar in my
-old age."
-
- | **II**
- | **Interview with Govan Littlejohn**
- | **387 S. Liberty St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-Govan Littlejohn, of Spartanburg, told the writer he was 87 years old
-and that he remembered slavery times. He said he was born on the farm of
-Dicky Littlejohn, located near Grindal Shoals. He said Richard
-Littlejohn owned a mill on Pacolet River, though his brother, Jim
-Littlejohn, owned the land. This was a grist mill. Govan Littlejohn's
-father was a colored man from another farm and his name was Hawkins, but
-he took the name of Littlejohn. He remembers the Yankee Soldiers passing
-in the public road, but they did not bother any one there; didn't take
-or steal anything, and just passed on quietly. He says his master did
-not know how to whip anybody, though he remembers him catching hold of
-him one day and switching him with a small twig, saying "You little
-rascal, you." His master whipped some of the grown negroes but not hard
-enough to hurt them, though once or twice he saw a grown negro with bare
-back feel the switch. "But he did not know how to whip anybody."
-
-"Yes, I been conjured," he said. "You see that left foot? Well, once
-when I was a young 'buck', I was setting up to a gal and there was
-another fellow setting up to her, too. I held a little bit the upper
-hand with the gal. But when my left foot began to swell up and pain me,
-I had to go to bed. I stayed there three months. Dr. Nott came to see me
-and treated me with corn poultices, but they would dry up and fall off
-and I didn't get any better. He lanced my foot three times, but nothing
-but blood would come. One day a herb doctor came to see me and said he
-could cure my foot. He took corn meal poultices, rhubarb roots and some
-other things, and it wasn't long before my foot got well. About that
-time, my mother found the 'conjuration' right in the front yard at the
-door-steps. I must have stepped over it, or got my foot caught in it
-some way. The 'conjuration' was, pins, feathers and something else all
-tied up in a bag. My mother heard that if it was put in running water,
-the conjurer would leave the country. So pretty soon after she put the
-stuff in running water, that fellow left the country. He got his arm
-caught in a cotton gin not long after he left, and got it chewed off
-right to his shoulder.
-
-"Vegetables should be planted during the dark of the moon. One day, the
-man I was working for told me he wanted his Irish potatoes planted. I
-told him that wasn't the time to plant potatoes. He told me to plant
-some in one particular place that day and call them his potatoes, then
-when I thought the time was right, to plant the rest in another place.
-His potatoes came up and made prettier vines than mine, had pretty
-blooms on them and the vines grew very high. He ragged me about how fine
-his potatoes were. He told me to gather the potatoes under my vines for
-the house, but not to disturb his potatoes. For several days, the family
-ate potatoes from my vines, then I gathered up the potatoes left. I got
-five or six wheelbarrows full. I then dug his potatoes and got a little
-more than one wheelbarrow full. He told me to plant the garden when I
-thought the time was right, and not to say anything to him about when
-and what to plant. I always had plenty of vegetables for his
-family."
-
-Easter Lockhart
-===============
-
- | **Interview with Easter Lockhart (80)**
- | **322 Hill Street, Gaffney, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Folks thinks that I was born round Easter, but that ain't so. March the
-9th is what they always told me. The year I cannot recollect hearing,
-but by my count that I keep I am running close to eighty years. White
-folks give me my age to keep when I married, and I have kept it ever
-since, so I cannot be far wrong.
-
-"It was the chief of police's grandpa that I knew and it was off his
-place that my old man come from. I was born Easter Norris and I married
-Nathan Lockhart when I was young, maybe fifteen, ain't sure about that.
-He was a little older than me. In slavery I was born and my mother was
-sold while I was a very young child, so they say. We then lived with Mr.
-Clayton Clark. Freedom broke when I was around thirteen, and we then
-went back to the Lockhart Plantation. There is where I nursed Henry, a
-little baby. He is now the chief of police. Miss Bessie, his mother, had
-me to clean up her yards for her.
-
-"Miss Bessie fixed me up to be baptized at the Limestone Baptist church.
-It was then near Johnson Street and across from where Central school now
-stands. It was a Negro church. We had to go to the spring pond called
-Austin's Pond where all the baptizing took place in those days. Mr.
-Austin had a mill there run by a big water wheel. The white folks
-carried on their baptizing there, too. The first warm Sunday in May was
-when I was baptized.
-
-"All Saturday I prayed and Miss Bessie told me what I was going to do,
-and read to me from the Bible about baptizing and about John the Baptist
-baptizing Christ. Yes sir, the Bible say Christ went down in the water,
-in the waters of Jordan. Miss Bessie was telling my ma how to fix my
-clothes while she was reading the Bible to me. All my clothes was white
-but my shoes. In those days they did not have white shoes. I wore white
-cotton stockings. I had a white dress to wear to the pond and I took two
-pairs of white stockings. A crowd was to be baptized at 2:30 o'clock
-that evening. The sun was good and hot. I went with my folks. Miss
-Bessie went and all the white folks went to see their Negroes go under.
-
-"The dress I wore to the baptizing was starched so stiff it stood out. I
-wore a white handkerchief over my head that Miss Bessie give me. On top
-of that I had a white bonnet that had frills and tucks all over it. When
-we got there the banks of Austin's Pond was lined with Negroes shouting
-and singing glory and praises. They sang all the songs they could think
-of and the preacher lined out songs to them. The people to be baptized
-congregated before the preacher, and he told them what to do. Then we
-went in and put on the clothes we was to go under in.
-
-"I had a long white gown gathered from my shoulders and it had a big
-kind of sleeves. On my head I wore a white cap and kept on my white
-stockings, but I pulled off my black shoes. Never had no white shoes
-that I know of way back then. I felt so good that I seemed to walk real
-light. While we were getting in our baptizing clothes we shouted praises
-as the people on the banks sang. Some of us jumped up. When my time come
-I started to the pond and just before the preacher turned to take my
-hand, I shouted 'Lord have Mercy' and clapped my hands over my head.
-Somebody said, 'Dat child sho is gitting a new soul'.
-
-"Down in the water I went. First it hit my ankles and then I felt the
-hem of my skirts getting wet. I looked down and my gown was floating on
-top the water. I took my hand and pushed it down. The preacher pulled me
-to him and I went in water to my waist. I said 'Oh Lordy' when that
-water hit my stomach. The preacher said, 'Now sister, you just hold your
-breath and shut your mouth; trust in the Lord and don't act like a
-grunting pig, but have faith'. Then the singing seemed far off and the
-preacher's voice got deep. He put his big hand over my mouth and told me
-to limber up my back. His other hand was under my back. He pushed me
-over, and down in the water I went; then up I come. The preacher put a
-towel over my face, and while I was getting water out of my eyes and
-mouth, he was saying about the Lord done reached down from Heaven and
-created a new soul. I felt real funny when I turned to walk up out of
-the water. I could hardly walk for I had on so many clothes and they
-were so heavy. As soon as I could I got into the clothes that I wore to
-the baptizing and put on my black shoes and the pair of white stockings
-that I had fetched with me. While aunt Kizie Lockhart was tying the
-handkerchief around my head that Miss Bessie give me, I told her about
-how I felt. She said, 'Why, sure child, ain't you done washed your sins
-away and got converted?'
-
-"Then she grabbed me by the hand and we went out among the people
-shouting praises to the Lord. I ain't never felt the same since. Aunt
-Kizie took me round to say 'howdy' to Miss Bessie. When the preacher had
-got them all baptized, we went into the church and had services. The
-white folks went on home after the baptizing was over. At the church we
-shouted till we could not shout no more. Folks don't like that now. They
-don't feel good when they join the church no more, either. I ain't had
-nothing to come against me since I was baptized. My head loses lots of
-things, but not my religion.
-
-"Lots of folks was at Mr. Henry's Pa's house for his infair dinner. Mr.
-Hiram and Miss Bessie give the infair after the wedding. Miss Agnes, his
-sister come back for the wedding. Mr. Henry had sharp snapping eyes and
-he was good looking then. His eyes can still snap. When he looked at
-Miss Mary his face would light up. Her name was Miss Mary Gilmer, and
-she lived up near the lead mine. She sure looked good in white. I did
-not see the wedding, so I had to look careful at them when they come in
-Miss Bessie's front door so I could take it all in.
-
-"The infair sure was fine. The table was most breaking down with turkey,
-chicken, ham, salads, pies and cakes. All the things to eat, already
-fixed on the plates, was fetched in from the kitchen by the Negroes. The
-chickens and turkeys just set on the table for ornaments and was not
-touched until the next day.
-
-"The infair started at three o'clock in the afternoon. There were three
-or four tables for the people to sit at. The dining room and one other
-room were used to seat the guests at the tables while they ate. I can
-still see Miss Bessie's white linen table cloth that reached nearly to
-the floor. Such a time as I had the week before, washing and ironing the
-big linen napkins and shining the silver.
-
-"They all looked mighty fine at the tables in their fine clothes. I
-could not help looking often at Mr. Henry's wife. Miss Bessie had done
-studied everything out so as it all went off fine."
-
-Gable Locklier
-==============
-
- | **Interview with Uncle Gable Locklier, age 86**
- | **Gourdin, S.C.**
- | —*H. Grady Davis and Mrs. Lucile Young, Florence, S.C.*
-
-"I born in Clarendon county, 50 yards of Davis Station. Massa Henry
-Bethune dat have big plantation dere was my first boss en after he died,
-Mrs. Bethune sold everything en moved to Summerton. Stayed dere till she
-married Mr. Thomas, de preacher, dat have big place in Summerton wid
-trees in long row right up to de door. He bought place three miles from
-Summerton called de Bashet place. Mrs. Bethune was a sport lady en was
-good to me en Mr. Thomas good man too, but he was a Yankee. He come to
-Summerton to be a school teacher en won' long fore he commence to escort
-my Missus en dey made up in a year or two, I hear ma say. I was in de
-kitchen en I hear dem. She told ma, 'Eliza, I gwine marry Mr. Thomas.'
-Ma say, 'You is.' 'Yes, you reckon he gwine be all right?' 'I reckon he
-is, he looks all right.' 'Well, I gwine marry him en try him.' Mr.
-Thomas, he Yankee, but he fought for de Confederates.
-
-"Massa Henry Bethune had big plantation en had a right sharp of slaves
-dere. De boss house was here en my house next en all de other slave
-house was string along in row dat way. My white folks, dey didn' exactly
-treat you as most of dem did. Dey come round en examine you house en see
-what you needed. All us live in two room pole house dat have a wood
-floor. Old people sleep on some kind of bed prop wid rope wind up like
-cow yoke en have quilts en mattresses taking white homespun. De others
-sleep on de floor. Dey give us good clothes made out of blue denim cloth
-en some had checked or stripe goods. Den dey give us heavy woolen
-clothes to wear in de winter time en had Sunday clothes too. My Massa
-was good to his slaves all de time. Have own garden dat my mother en
-sister would work en my mother done all de cookin for de slaves 'cause
-our folks all eat out de same pot. Cook rice en fat meat en dese collard
-greens en corn bread en cabbage. Make plenty of de cabbage en eat heap
-of dem.
-
-"I didn' never have to work hard, but dey work dem till dark come on
-some places. Dey blow horn en us go to work after daylight en sometimes
-get off in time to eat supper by sundown. I was so slow dat when de rest
-knock off, dey make me work on. Mr. Thomas, he stand en look at me. My
-hands just look like dey put on wrong. When I quit off, I eat supper en
-den I go to bed.
-
-"I ain' never see any slaves punished but I hear tell 'bout it. Some of
-dem run away 'cause dey get tired of workin en if dey catch em, dey sho
-whip em. Used to have to get ticket from boss or Missus to go any place
-off de plantation widout you get punish for it. I hear tell 'bout de
-overseer en de driver whip plenty of de slaves en some of de time, dey
-would put em in de screw box over night. Sell em if dey didn' do like
-dey tell em to do. Speculator come dere to buy slaves en dey sell em to
-de highest bidder. I hear em say a certain one bring $1400 or $1500. I
-know a man offered my boss $1000 for my brother, Joe, but he wouldn'
-sell him.
-
-"My Massa would give me money now en den. First money I remember he give
-me was 75¢ paper money. He tell me to check his horse en bring him up to
-de yard en give me 75¢ en said, 'I can' carry you wid me dis mornin.' I
-was 'bout 9 or 10 years old den. I stood up on de block en wondered why
-he couldn' carry me en when I go back to de house, I see my Missus cryin
-en she say, 'We won' see him no more.' When he come back, he shot
-through de foot. He tell me to go to de blacksmith shop en bring
-crutches. Den he went to de war again en when he come back, he was shot
-on de right side of de neck. Give me a quarter in silver money dat time.
-I ain' never been to de store fore den, but I go to de storekeeper en I
-say, 'Mr. King, half dis money mine en half Joes.' I thought it was his
-place to give me what I wanted en when I walk out, he say, 'Come back en
-get your money,' I carried it home en give it to brother Joe en he give
-it to pa en don' know what come of it after dat. Bought plug of tobacco
-for pa wid de other money I had.
-
-"Our folks didn' get no learnin much nowhe' in dem days, but my Missus
-sister child learn me right sharp. Dey was boardin at our house en when
-I started to school, I didn' have no trouble. I remembers I found a
-little book one time en man say he pay me 10¢ for it. Ma give me a
-needle en thread en little sack en I sew my 10¢ in it. Put it in de
-rafter en it stay dere till next Christmas. Believe I took it down en
-tote it a long time fore man come by sellin tobacco en I bought piece en
-give it to pa. Man give my sister bigger piece for a dime den he give
-me.
-
-"De slaves what belong to my white folks have frolicsome days all
-through de year. Go to frolic on Saturday en go to white folks church on
-Sunday en sit in portion of church in de gallery. Den on Christmas eat
-en drink de best liquor dere was en de Fourth of July de one day dat dey
-have to go to [HW: Eutaw] Springs. Dey go in buggies en wagons en have
-plenty of everything to eat dat day. I know dere was a battle up dere,
-although I didn' never go wid em. Cotton pickin en corn shuckin days
-won' no work times, dey was big frolics. De first one shuck red corn had
-to tell who his best girl was en all dem things. All dem come to cotton
-pickin dat want to en pick cotton en cook big dinner. Pick cotton till
-'bout 5:30 in de evenin' en den knock off for de eats en de dancin. Go
-to all de slaves weddings too. Dey would mostly get married 'bout on a
-Sunday evenin'.
-
-"I was 'bout 15 year old when freedom come, but I don' remember much
-'bout dat day. I remembers de Yankees come to de house one day. De white
-folks had a bull dog tied in de smoke house en one Yankee hold de gun on
-de dog en another take de meat out de house. Den dey come out en set
-table en eat. Dog didn' try to bite em 'cause dog know when to bite.
-Somebody ask em to have some rice en dey say, 'I would cut my throat
-fore I eat dat thing.
-
-"I tell you de truth wid de treatment I been gettin I don' see why I
-could fought slavery time. I lives here by myself en I used to get check
-but check don' come no more en I just lives on what people gets me.
-Government got woman bring me wood en bucket of water en niece give me
-dis house en acre of land to live on my lifetime. Cook only one meal a
-day 'cause I can' afford it. De water I got it ever since yesterday
-mornin. Sunday mornin I had hominy en salt water fish en dat de last
-time I had good meal. (Wednesday afternoon). Lady tell me dere ain'
-gwine be no more checks. It be two months since I get check en lady come
-en I tell her I hungry en she go to Gourdin en buy me two cans en loaf
-of bread. Had two big watermelons en was saving one for Miss Lanes. Girl
-come runnin in en say my niece house on fire en I go runnin to see 'bout
-fire en my biggest watermelon gone. Dat de one I been saving for Miss
-Lanes en den I wake up on Friday mornin en de other one gone. Next thing
-I know, dey started on my late ones. One night woman come in patch en
-thump en thump. I was standin at de peach tree in de patch en she have
-one en when she get near me, she stoop down en pick another. I say, 'You
-reckon dat one ripe?' She sho drop em en run dat time.
-
-"Thank you, sir, your kindness will not be forgotten. Dis here dozen
-matches last me till next week.
-
-"Good-by. Yunnah come back."
-
-Walter Long
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Walter Long, 83 years old**
- | **2440 Sumter Street, Columbia, S.C.**
- | —*Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-"I's a little bit stiff, when I tries to git up, and sometimes when I's
-walkin' I weaves and wobbles like a drunk person, but know all dat comes
-from old age. I has been healthy and strong all my life. De onliest
-trouble I has ever had in my life has been wid my teeth; they sho' has
-been bad a long time, and now I has only one or two old snags left. I
-don't want no store bought teeth nohow, 'cause they 'minds me of a hoss
-or mule wid a bit in their mouth floppin' up and down. No sir, I don't
-want them triflin' things botherin' me, I think I can take care of de
-little I gits to eat wid dese few snags I has left.
-
-"Me and all my folks was slaves and b'longs to Master John Long, and his
-wife, Betsy Long. Their plantation was six miles north of Chapin,
-Lexington County, South Carolina. De plantation was a big one and lay
-'long Saluda River. You know it had to be a big place 'cause master had
-over three hundred slaves in all. Everything de slaves needed was made
-right dere on de plantation; all de food 'cept sugar and coffee, and
-what us need to wear, 'cept buttons for de clothes.
-
-"Master and mistress raised four fine boys, no girls I 'members 'bout.
-De boys names was: West, Mid, Gradon and Hill. Master West and Mid
-served as overseers on de plantation. Dese boys being de overseers, was
-de whole reason us slaves was treated good and kind. They knowed us
-slave would b'long to them some day, when old Master John died. De
-slaves never worked hard, and they was give every Saturday and Sunday to
-rest.
-
-"Our food in slavery time was good and a lot of it. De food was cooked
-good and prepared for us by servants dat didn't do nothin' else but
-'tend to de food dat de rest of de slaves had to eat. When us had beef
-us went to de pasture for it; when us had pork, us went to de hog lot.
-De cabbage and turnips come from de garden and field dere at home, and
-when us was eatin' them us knowed they didn't come from out yonder, like
-de stuff us has to eat dese days.
-
-"De houses us slaves lived in was built of logs and then de logs was
-covered over inside and out wid plank, dat made them tight and warm.
-Every family was furnished plenty of covering, so they wouldn't suffer
-in cold weather but in summer de most of us slept on pallets on de
-floor.
-
-"Master John was a business man, but he never got too busy to be polite
-and gentle to mistress. Both of them has good schoolin'. They knowed
-just how to treat both their slaves and their white friends. They was
-good to all, and they never turnt anybody down dat come to them for
-help. Many was de poor white folks dat 'most lived on Master John. They
-was what I calls, real white folks; no sich people is easy found dese
-days by de poor niggers.
-
-"Mistress was mighty 'ticular 'bout our 'ligion, 'cause she knowed dere
-was no nigger any too good nohow. Us slaves 'sorbed all de good us had
-in us from our mistress, I really believes. She was so kind and gentle,
-she moved 'mong us a livin' benediction. Many was de blessings dat fell
-from her hands for de sick and 'flicted. She got tired, but I has never
-seen her too weary to go to a cryin' child or a moanin' grown person on
-de place and 'quire what was de matter. Us was 'bliged to love her,
-'cause she knowed us more better than us knowed ourselves. More than
-dat, she and her sons' wives teached us how to read, write and figure,
-'nough to help us in small business.
-
-"When did I git married? I wish you hadn't ask dat question. I sho' had
-a bad mixup wid my first gal. You see it was dis way: I was good grown
-befo' I left my daddy and mammy who was then farmin' for Master Mid
-Long, on the other side of Saluda River. My mammy had a heap of sense
-dat she got from de white folks. So, one day while me and she was
-pickin' cotton out in de field she all at once stopped pickin' cotton,
-straightened up, pointed her finger at me and said: 'Look here nigger,
-you knows I don't like for you to be gwine to see dat brown skin gal
-what lives over yonder on Cling Creek. After I has raised you up de best
-I knowed how and then for you to do like you is, foolin' your time 'way
-wid such sorry women makes your old mammy sick and mad all over. One
-other thing I wants to say to you is dat some of dese nights when you go
-to see dat gal, you is gwine to see something dat is sho' goin' to call
-to your mind what I's sayin' to you.' Well boss, you know how 'tis wid
-men. I knowed mammy could give good 'vice, and I knowed she sho'
-wouldn't do me no harm. But what 'bout dat I's gwine to see some nights
-when I go to see dat gal? So I thinks and thinks 'bout dat two or three
-days and never did satisfy my mind what dat something gwine look like.
-
-"Late one evenin', close to sunset, several days after mammy said what
-she did to me, I kinda loafed off down to de cross-road store, 'tending
-I was gwine after some 'bacco. I fool 'round de store a good long while
-like I didn't have nothin' on my mind 'cept my 'bacco. I had a plenty on
-my mind, 'cause as dark come I headed up de Cling Creek road towards dat
-gal's house. When I got close to her house I seen her down at de fence
-in front of de house. Soon as she glimpsed me, she 'tended like she was
-lookin' for something dat wasn't dere. I knowed what she was lookin'
-for, 'cause women has got their own 'culiar way of foolin' men; keepin'
-them from knowin' what they are thinkin' 'bout. Dat gal knowed all de
-time in dat little kinky head of hers dat I was goin' to see her dat
-night. When I spoke to her she didn't 'pear to be de least bit
-frightened or surprised.
-
-"Quick as a cat she climbed up and set down on top of de fence, while
-from de other side I leaned against it, close by. Dere she was smilin'
-just as shy and skittish as a squirrel. Us stayed right dere and talked
-and talked 'bout everything we knowed 'bout and a heap we didn't know
-'bout, 'til de big yellow moon stood straight up, befo' I said farewell
-to her and begun makin' my way down de big road towards home.
-
-"I went on down de road whistling wid nothin' on my mind 'cept dat gal.
-When I got 'bout a mile from home I seen a woman wid a basket on her
-arm, a little piece ahead, comin' towards me. Just as I turnt to let her
-pass I kinda raised my hand to my hat to speak. But bless your soul, I
-ain't seen dat woman no more. I stopped and looked everywhere and dere
-was nobody in dat road 'cept me. Well, dere you is. What does all dis
-mean nohow? So de more I thought de more a 'culiar feelin' crept over my
-body. Then I say: 'Here I is been lookin' for hants and spirits all my
-life and I ain't never seen one befo' dis one.' By dis time dat 'culiar
-feelin' had reached my foots and they got to movin' 'bout uneasy like.
-Dis ain't gwine to do I said and wid dat I tore off down de road faster
-than a wild hoss. White man, I believes I run de first hundred yards in
-nearly no time and after dat I kinda picked up a bit. I begun to feel
-dat I wasn't makin' as good time in de road as I ought to be makin' so I
-cut 'cross de field towards a narrow strip of woods close to home. When
-my foots hit de rough grass and corn stalks of de field they took holt
-then and got to bird-working [2]_, smooth and nice like machinery. I
-thought I heard something back of me, I glanced back to see what it was
-and befo' I could git my head straight again I smacked head on into a
-pine tree as big as I is. Well, my runnin' ceasted right dere, de big
-yellow moon went dark, a breeze fanned my face, and then everything got
-still.
-
-.. [2] Swift movement
-
-"De next mornin' when my mind come back to me, de sun was shinin'
-straight in my face. I lay dere on de ground blinkin' my eyes, wonderin'
-if I was still livin'. After a while I tried to move and sho' 'nough I
-was dere all right.
-
-"After de war de most of us slaves stayed on de plantation and worked
-right on just like nothin' had happened. I lived with my mammy and daddy
-a long time after I was grown. Old master and mistress died soon after
-de war and then my family went to live wid young Master Mid on his
-plantation on de other side of Saluda River.
-
-"When I got some over thirty years old I got married and then I left de
-farm, moved lower down in Lexington County and went to work at a
-sawmill. I worked in de sawmill business 'bout twenty-five years.
-Rollin' big logs to de saw wid a kanthook ain't no easy job, but it was
-better to do dat than nothin'. I made a pretty good livin' but didn't
-save no money, 'cause money was scarce in them days, nobody was paid
-much for their labor in them times.
-
-"Soon after I quit working in de sawmill business I moved to Columbia
-and has been here every since. De white folks has been pretty good to me
-here, 'cause I has had work most all de time. I has always been able to
-pay my bills and support my family right good. I believes de reason of
-dat is, I has never bothered nobody, and attended to my own little
-business as best as I knowed. Even now, as old as I is, I can git work
-from my white friends 'most all de time, dat's right.
-
-"Did I marry dat first gal what mammy fussed wid me 'bout? Listen at
-dat. No sir, I ain't seen dat gal in 'bout fifty years and I don't know
-if she is dead or not."
-
-Gillam Lowden
-=============
-
- | **Interview with Gillam Lowden (75)**
- | **Greenwood, S.C.**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I was born at Greenwood, S.C. about 1862. I can't 'member anything
-'bout de Confederate War or anything right after de war. I heard my
-mammy and daddy talk 'bout de patrollers but I don't know much. My daddy
-was Abram Lowden and my mammy was Sidney Williams dat married my daddy.
-Our marster in slavery was Dr. Davis, and his wife, our mistress, was
-Miss Martha Davis. Dey didn't learn us to read and write.
-
-"Atter de war, my mammy always done washing on Sad'day atternoons, and
-us little chaps helped to tote water and bring her wood. I 'member de
-old brick oven our marster had. Dey cooked lots of bread on Sad'day
-atternoons to last several days. Den we had corn-shuckings, de women had
-quiltings.
-
-"Us chaps didn't play many games 'cept marbles, rope-skipping, and
-jumping high rope. We didn't git to go to school.
-
-"Some of de cures dey made was from gypsum weed, which was boiled into a
-tea and drunk. Thread-salve buds was picked and strung on thread like a
-necklace, den put around de neck to keep off chills.
-
-"I jined de church when I was 31 years old, because I was seeking
-salvation. I wanted God to release me from my sins and dat was de way I
-had to do it. We can't git along widout Jesus.
-
-"I never did think anything 'bout Jeff Davis or Abraham Lincoln, and
-don't know nothing 'bout Booker Washington."
-
-Emma Lowran
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Emma Lowran**
- | **550 Horseshoe St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-A colored woman who states she was about four years old during slavery
-times, states she doesn't remember much about those days, except what
-her mother told her. Her mother was a slave and was given to Bill Smith,
-otherwise known as "Big-eyed Smith", and they used to live on his
-plantation somewhere between Glenn Springs and Spartanburg. The actual
-possession of her mother was 'vested in Mrs. Bill Smith, as the mother
-was presented to Mrs. Smith by her father. Her mother's work was around
-the house, such as cleaning house, washing, milking the cows etc.; but
-she never had to do the cooking for the Smith family. The source states
-that she and the other children of slaves used to play in the sand and
-have a good time—just as all children do. Sometimes Mr. Smith would go
-to whip her mother for some reason, but Mrs. Smith wouldn't let him do
-so, for she told her husband that the woman belonged to her and she was
-not going to have her whipped. However, she stated she does not remember
-ever seeing Big Eyed Smith whipping any slave, for his wife would always
-stop him. As a whole, she and her mother were treated very kindly,
-though at times they did not have enough to eat. Mrs. Smith would always
-tell her mother who was milking to give the children plenty of milk.
-This woman was too young to remember anything about the Yankee soldiers
-coming to their place, but one day a black man came by the house and
-told her mother she was now free. She states her mother continued to
-work for Mr. Smith after she was set free. She was sent to school where
-she learned to read and write, but when she became older, she came to
-Spartanburg to live, because it looked like in the country, no one could
-get a doctor out there until he or she was about dead; so she wanted to
-be in town where she could get a doctor when she got sick.
-
-Nellie Loyd
-===========
-
- | **I**
- | **Interview with Nellie Loyd**
- | **Newberry, S.C.**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I was born in Union County, S.C., near Goshen Hill, about 91 years ago.
-I belonged to Mr. George Buchanan. He went to the war and got his right
-arm shot off. After the war, his sons moved to Oklahoma. He was good to
-his slaves, and never allowed any negro under 12 years of age to work in
-the fields. I helped around the house until I was 12 years old.
-
-"The soldiers were called 'minute men'. They had wide hats with palmetto
-buttons in front. They sometimes mustered at Goshen Hill. Some of the
-slaves was hanged for stealing, but my master never hanged any.
-
-"I married Nozby Loyd soon after the war, and had three children. I come
-to Newberry about thirty years ago, and have worked with white families
-or in the fields."
-
- | **II**
- | **Interview with Nellie Loyd (91)**
- | **Newberry, S.C.**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I lived wid Albert and Carrie Coleman. Dey is no kin, but dey give me a
-place to live. I am too old to work much, but I does what I can to help.
-
-"I was born near Goshen Hill in Union County, and I was a slave of Marse
-George Buchanan. He give us good quarters to live in and plenty to eat.
-He was a good master. I believe he never whipped any slaves, for I never
-did hear of it if he did, and he never allowed anybody else to whip dem
-either.
-
-"My grand-mother's mother come from Virginia. It was said she was kin to
-de Indians.
-
-"I worked around de house most of de time. My mother cooked at de home
-of Marse George. She kept de keys to de smokehouse where dar was always
-plenty of home-raised smoked meat. Marse made his own flour, too. He
-made salt by digging a deep hole in de ground and getting de mud dat had
-salt in it. We never had our own gardens, but we had small watermelon
-patches. Marse had a big garden.
-
-"Marse had a blacksmith shop and he used charcoal in it. To make de
-charcoal he would cut down pine trees and pile de big limbs up and put
-dirt over dem; den burn de limbs and dat would leave de charcoal. He
-would pour water over it den.
-
-"Some of Marse Buchanan's boys went to war, and some of dem got killed.
-Dey had patrollers den, and if dey caught you off de place dey would
-have twelve men to whip you.
-
-"We never worked at night except sometimes when it rained and we had to
-get de corn shucked or de fodder hauled to de barn. Sometimes we picked
-cotton by de light of de moon. We worked on Saturday afternoons but not
-on Sundays. On Christmas we had a good time and good things to eat. De
-men would drink beer and whiskey. Beer was made from locusts and
-persimmons, and everybody would drink some of it.
-
-"De slaves never learned to read and write. Dey never had any churches,
-but dey had to go to church and so dey went to de white folks' church
-and set in de back or de gallery. Niggers had lots of dancing and
-frolics. Dey danced de 'flat-foot'. Dat was when a nigger would slam his
-foot flat down on de floor. De wooden bottom shoes sho would make a loud
-noise. At weddings everybody would eat and frolic.
-
-"We had our own leather made and tanned at home; den it was tacked to de
-wood soles to make shoes.
-
-"When anybody got sick, de old folks made hot teas from herbs dat dey
-got out of de woods. One was a bitter herb called 'rhu'. It was put in
-whiskey and drunk to prevent sickness. Marse always give it to de nigger
-children, and to de grown ups, too. Dey hung asafetida bags around de
-necks of de kids to keep down sickness.
-
-"When freedom come, Marse said we was free, but he kept us till dat crop
-was finished, and some of de niggers stayed on for several years and
-worked for wages.
-
-"De yankees come through our section, and Marse hid his meat and things
-in deep holes dat he dug in de cemetery. He built a fence around de
-cemetery. De yankees took good horses and left poor ones. Dey made
-niggers cook for dem all night. De Ku Klux wore white clothes and white
-caps. Dey made out dey was ghosts from de cemetery, and dey would get a
-man and carry him off, and we never would see him again. De Red Shirts
-come in '76. I 'member my husband voted once or twice. He was a
-Republican; but dey soon put a stop to dat.
-
-"I think Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson must have been all right; just
-heard about them. Dey said dat Jeff Davis surrendered under a June apple
-tree. Just heard about Booker Washington and dat is all I know. Reckon
-he is doing good work.
-
-"I joined de church when I was quite young, because meningitis was in de
-neighborhood killing so many folks and I got scared.
-
-"Atter de war de niggers started up hill; den went back. Since dat time
-up to now, dey has been working most on farms. Some rent small farms and
-some work as wage hands or share-croppers. Dem dat went to town have
-worked as carpenters and other such work.
-
-"I can't 'member anything more, except dat marse had a still-house on
-his place, and other farmers did, too. Dey made brandy and whiskey from
-peaches, apples and grapes dat dey raised; den sold it to other farmers
-in de neighborhood who didn't have as much as dey did."
-
-Amie Lumpkin
-============
-
- | **Interview with Amie Lumpkin, 88 years old**
- | **1411 Pine St. Columbia, S.C.**
- | —*Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-"I was born on de plantation of Master John Mobley, in Fairfield County,
-South Carolina, in 1849. Both my parents was slaves on that plantation
-at that time. Master Mobley had a big farm and he had many slaves and
-chillun when I began to understand things there. My daddy worked in de
-field, but my mammy worked in de big house, helpin' to cook.
-
-"There was pretty good order on de plantation, generally at de time in
-1856, when I was 'bout seven years old. Most of de slaves go right along
-doin' their chores, as expected of them, but a few was restless, and
-they break de rules, by runnin' 'bout without askin', and always there
-was one or two who tried to escape slavery by goin' far away to the
-North.
-
-"I 'member seein' one big black man, who tried to steal a boat ride from
-Charleston. He stole away one night from Master Mobley's place and got
-to Charleston, befo' he was caught up with. He tell the overseer who
-questioned him after he was brought back: 'Sho', I try to git away from
-this sort of thing. I was goin' to Massachusetts, and hire out 'til I
-git 'nough to carry me to my home in Africa.'
-
-"It was de rule when a trial was bein' held lak this, for all de bosses
-and sometimes de missus to be there to listen and to ask the run'way
-slave some questions. After this one talked, it was Missus Mobley
-herself who said; 'Put yourself in this slave's shoes, and what would
-you do? Just such as he has. The best way to treat such a slave is to be
-so kind and patient with him, that he will forget his old home.'
-
-"He was led away and I never did hear if he was whipped. He lak a
-Cherokee Indian, he never whimper if he should be whipped 'til de blood
-stream from him; but I do know he never got away again. He was de first
-one to pick up his hat and laugh loud, when President Lincoln set all
-slaves free in January, 1863. He say: 'Now I go, thank de Lord, and he
-strike right out, but he not git much beyond de barn, when he turn and
-come back. He walked in de yard of de big house, and he see Missus
-Mobley lookin' out at him. He take off his hat and bow low and say:
-
-"Missus, I so happy to be free, that I forgits myself but I not go 'til
-you say so. I not leave you when you needs a hand, 'less de master and
-all de white folks gits home to look after you.
-
-"De missus look down at her feet end she see de black man, so big and
-strong, sheddin' tears. She say to him: 'You is a good nigger and you
-has suffered much; make yourself at home, just as you have been doin'
-and when you want to go far away, come to me and I'll see that you git
-'nough money to pay your way to Boston and maybe to Africa.' And that is
-what happen' a year or two later.
-
-"My daddy go 'way to de war 'bout this time, and my mammy and me stay in
-our cabin alone. She cry and wonder where he be, if he is well, or he be
-killed, and one day we hear he is dead. My mammy, too, pass in a short
-time. I was sixteen when Sherman's army come through Fairfield County. I
-see them ridin' by for hours, some of them laughin' and many of them has
-big balls in their hands, which they throw against de house and it
-explode and burn de house.
-
-"I have always 'spected that am just de way they set de houses when
-Columbia was burned in a single night. Some of de houses in Fairfield
-was burned, some in Winnsboro, and others in de country, but Columbia
-was de only place that was wiped out. As de army pass, we all stand by
-de side of de road and cry and ask them not to burn our white folks'
-house, and they didn't.
-
-"I came to Columbia in 1868, and for a time I cooked in one or two of de
-hotels, then running in Columbia. About 1878, I was employed as cook in
-de home of de late W.A. Clark, and I stayed there, in de servant's
-quarters, on de place 'til I became too feeble to continue.
-
-"It has been one of de big pleasures of my life that I has so many fine
-white friends, and so far as I knows, de good will of all de black folks
-as well. While workin' at Mr. Clark's home, which stood in a fine grove
-of magnolias at the corner of Elmwood Avenue and Park Street I never
-thought I should live to see it fade away. But you know it did, since de
-big stone mansion was torn away and de Junior High School now stands in
-that grove.
-
-"While there, I think it was about thirty years service, I saw many of
-de leading white folks of de city and state, as guests there; they, at
-least many of them, still befriend me. De remnants of de Clark family
-treat me fine when they see me, and sometimes they drive by to see me.
-Of course, I had a pretty nice little roll of money when I got too old
-to work reg'larly but it has all been spent since. One day I's thinkin'
-'bout it and I recalls de sayin' of my Missus Mobley. She say: 'Money
-has wings and it soon fly away.'
-
-"For de last twelve years now, I has been de guest of Missus Ruth Neal,
-a fine Christian woman and a teacher in de public schools. She always
-treat me just as though I be her mother. My white friends have not
-forgot me to date and they enable me to live, without too much aid from
-my present benefactor. Her chillun, all in school now, call me 'Auntie.'
-Lookin' over my life it seems to me, I has done de best I could to live
-right and I have a hope that when de summons comes my Lord will say:
-'Well done, Amie.'"
-
-Ballam Lyles
-============
-
- | **Interview with "Uncle" Ballam Lyles (74)**
- | **Carlisle, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Likker puts de wrong ideas in people's haids. I see dat ever since de
-time I shed my shirt tail. When dey gits likker in dem, dey thinks dey
-is important as de president. All o' 'em wants to act like millionairs.
-And if de truth be known, ain't narry one uv 'em worth killing. Likker
-jes' brings 'em down to dat. It'll do anybody like dat. It don't make no
-difference how rich dey is nor how white dey is. It'll sho' ruin 'em.
-And de niggers, it does dem de same way, 'cept dey don't have as far
-down to come as de white folks does. And dat's de reason I ain't got no
-use fer no likker.
-
-"When I was a lil shirt-tail boy, I recollects our soldiers gwine from
-house to house wid packs on dere backs. Dey was de awfullest looking
-white folks dat us had ever seed. Dat picture still stay right clear in
-my mind, even if I is a old man wid everything a growing dim. Dey sot up
-a camp at Marse's Bill Oxner's place—dat in Goshen Hill and ain't
-nothing much left dar fer you to see now. Dem soldiers never had nothing
-in dere packs but a few old rags and maybe a lil keepsake from de women
-folks back home what dey loved. Dere hair was dat long and stringy dat
-it was all matted around de face and neck. 'Cause in dem days, all de
-fine white mens wore beards, kaise dat was de fashion. But dem soldiers'
-beards looked wusser dan dere hair. Dere faces carried de awfullest look
-what you is ever seed on any man's face. Dere clothes looked wusser dan
-any darky's clothes had looked 'fo de war. None o' dem never had no
-garments a fittin 'em. Us'd look out and say, 'Yonder comes some mo' o'
-dem old lousy soldiers.'
-
-"Wheeler's soldiers come to Mr. Oxner's place and burnt de crib and tuck
-all our corn and jes' wasted it. Den dey tuck our meat and carried on
-something scandalous. Dey stayed a day or two and when dey had 'stroyed
-everything and scared us all half to death, dey went on somewheres
-else."
-
-Eison Lyles
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Eison Lyles (73)**
- | **Santuc, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-*REMINISCENCES*
-
-"Dey comes slow—dem things you calls recollects, or whatever it is; but
-I knows what I is talking about, dat I does. My daddy named Aaron Lyles.
-Him and Betsy Lyles was my parents. She come from Virginia. Deir white
-folks, de Lyles, brought dem from Virginia to Maybinton, S.C.
-
-"I was too little to know much of de old war, but jes' can remember
-living wid Mr. Alf Wright when de horn blow, saying dat de war was done
-over. I thought Jedg'ment Day done come!
-
-"I soon learn't to put up 'hopper'. Dat was hanging up strong ash wood
-and hickory ashes in a bag dat was wet, so dat de lye would drip out in
-a box whar soap was made. When de moon got right, de grease was biled
-off de bones and put in de lye; den it was cooked up into soap. It was
-done on de increase of de moon and only a sassafras stick was used for
-stirring. De soap maker stirred from her all de time. When a real hopper
-was made, it was in a V shape, wid a trough underneath for de drippings.
-Dat is all of de kind of soap folks had in dem hard times. If it was too
-strong when you took a bath, de skin would come off. Hard soap was used
-for washing, and soft soap for clothes. Another thing we did wid lye,
-was to shell corn and put de grains in lye and clean it. When it come
-white, we called it 'hominy'.
-
-"Things slip me sometimes, dat is, dey slips my memb'ance. I reckons dat
-old Gordam Mill was run by water, down yonder on Tyger River. Tyger
-separates Maybinton from Goshen Hill. Mr. Bill Oxner had de post office,
-and he lived up in a big grove whar de squirrels was real tame and loved
-to play.
-
-"When we lived on de old Lyons place I got acquainted wid Mr. Bob Lyons.
-His family refuged from Charleston to Maybinton during de war, and dey
-stayed dar until he died; den his folks went back to Charleston. I
-know'd Mr. Jim Thomas, den.
-
-"My father went from dat to Herbert's. We had it hard dar. Had so many
-ups and downs, and de overseer was hard on us, too. As to age, I ain't
-so sho about my right age, but I been old enough to sleep by myself for
-a long time. Folks knows me well and I stands well wid dem, and I tries
-to stand well wid God. My name was down in de old Lyles Bible, but it
-done burn't now. Miss Ellen done dead and ain't none of my set of Lyles
-living dat I knows de wharabouts of. I was born over on de Newberry
-side, so dey says; but dat don't matter, I knows de Union side jes' as
-well.
-
-"I lived wid Mr. Byars at Herbert's on a big plantation. Oh, Lawdy, I
-couldn't remember how many plows dey run down dar. I was gitting big
-enough to go to see de gals, and I sho had to walk a fur ways to see
-'em. De first buggy in dat country belonged to Mr. Epps Tucker. He had a
-net to go on de horse to keep de flies off'n him. Dat's de first horse
-wid a net on him to come to Gilliam's Chapel.
-
-"I run around four or five years for nature and for fun. Had in mind
-picking a wife, and I got one dat I like de looks of in about four
-years. Us up and married. I know'd Dr. Cofield, Dr. Geo. Douglas, Dr.
-Peak Gilliam and men like dat. Things run along all right till de night
-of August 31, 1886. Dat night dis old man prayed, 'O Lawd, come down, we
-need You. We need You and we need You bad. Ain't no time for chillun's
-foolishness, so don't send your Son, Jesus Christ, kaise it's You we
-needs. Dat earth sho was shaking everywhars, and things was falling. De
-Lawd or something had things by de hand dat night. Next day de Lawd
-heard folks prayers and stopped dat earth's gwines on. Of all de ups and
-downs, I spec dat was de worst scared I ever was.
-
-"Atter dat us built St. Luke, and we had logs for seats. We marched
-together and sung: 'Let's go down to de water and be baptized. I
-promised de Lawd dat I'd be baptized when St. Luke was finished. 'Ligion
-is so sweet, 'ligion is so sweet.'
-
-"Little boys watched us while us was building St. Luke's. Dey would play
-in de branch and sing: 'Little boy wouldn't swim, kaise leather tacked
-to his shoe'. Den dey would catch hands and jump up and down on de bank
-and sing: 'Loop de la—loop de loop de la; Deacon coming out, deacon
-coming out.'
-
-"Den all would run to de shade trees and put on deir clothes. And when
-us finished St. Lukes, such a baptizing as us had! All of us marched
-down to de pool while we sung:
-
- | Let's go down to de water and be baptized.
- | 'Ligion is so sweet, I's promised de Lawd I'd be baptized;
- | 'Ligion is so sweet, and I's promised de Lawd I'd be baptized."
-
-Moses Lyles
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Moses Lyles, 81 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-Moses Lyles lives in the section of Fairfield County that borders on
-Broad River. He lives in a two-room house, of the 'saddlebag' type, with
-his wife, Carrie, and his daughter, Carita. The home is the ordinary
-tenant house of a Negro in the South. Pictures, cut out of the
-illustrated Sunday editions of newspapers, are used to decorate the
-inside walls of the rooms. There are two windows to each room, which are
-closed with plank shutters. The floors are clean and yellowed from much
-scouring and sweeping. On the outside is a tiny walk to the house,
-bordered on either side by rows of jonquils. And about the yard are
-'butter and egg' flowers, that were so much in vogue in slavery times.
-
-"Yes sir, I was a slave. I b'long to Dr. John J. McMahon, dat is, my
-mammy was his cook. My father b'long to Marse Thomas Lyles. Deir
-plantations jined and folks could see 'cross de fields from one house to
-another. I never hear 'bout any trouble dat was caused by pappy comin'
-every so often to see and be wid my mammy.
-
-"My mistress name Sarah. Her and Marster John was de father and mother
-of young Marster John J. McMahon, a lawyer. My old marster and mistress
-have two girls, Miss Annie and Miss Lillie, dat was livin' when Marster
-die. Just a few weeks after he die, here come young Marse John into a
-troubled land, in de last year of de war, '65. What you think of dat?
-Niggers 'low dat's what give him de power dat him have. You never hear
-'bout dat? Well, they do say, when a male child come after de father's
-death, dat male child gwine to be a big man in all sorts of ways. How
-was him great? What did him do? Why everything. Widout a daddy and
-widout money, him got to be a 'fessor in de college and a lawyer. He
-tell de judge what's what in dat very court house over yonder. Git to be
-de head of all de teachers in de State and show them how to learn de
-chillun. He come back sometimes and show farmers how to farm. Know how
-to cure my dog of de mange, show my wife how to cure her chickens dat
-had de 'pip', and tell us what to do if ever a cow git sick wid de
-hollow horn or de hollow tail. Why, Marse John could count all de stars
-in de sky, tell you deir names while settin' on de top rail of de lot
-fence at night; git up de nex' mornin', look 'round and say whether it
-gonna rain or not, dat day. He not tell by de sky, but just go out, run
-his fingers through de grass, and dat grass tell him, somehow, it gonna
-rain or it not gonna rain. How him love dat old place, and de Salem
-cross road and Monticello. Him was riding high in de saddle of might and
-power down dere in Columbia. Him come home and say to me and Carrie: 'I
-love dis old place, wid its red hills and gullies, its pine trees, ash
-trees, hickory trees and scaly bark trees, de berry weeds and thistles
-'bout de barnyard fence and I want to be buried up here, not in
-Columbia, so dat de weeds and grasses, dat I walk on when a boy, might
-grow over me when I's dead.' Then him say: 'Mose does you know how to
-castrate and spay pigs?' I say: 'I does not.' Him say: 'Time for you to
-learn.' Us and de hands go out to de lot and wid de guff, guff, guff and
-guffin' of de old hogs and de squealin' of de pigs, him take all
-patience and learn me spayance and castration.
-
-"My pappy, as I might have told you, was Henry Lyles and my mammy, Mary
-Woodward. My brudders and sisters was John, Henry, Martha, Sallie, Jim,
-and de baby of all, Bill. Bill and me is de only ones livin'.
-
-"One day I was plowin' 'long and a thinkin' a whole lot of foolishness
-'bout social 'quality dat was bein' preached to us by de leaders of de
-Radical 'Publican party, which I b'longed to. Nigger men lak dat kinda
-talk, nigger women didn't lak it so much. They fear dat if nigger man
-have a chance to git a white wife, they would have no chance wid de
-nigger men. They was sure dat no white man would take a black wife,
-'ceptin' it be a poor white trash man and then if they git one of them,
-him would beat her and work her harder than in slavery time.
-
-"When I git to de end of de row, I say: 'Whoa!' I turns my back to de
-plowstock, ketches my hands on de handles and say to myself: 'De great
-Moses in de Bible have a black wife. What is good 'nough for him is just
-too good for me.' Then Carrie flit through my mind, as I see her de last
-time in a red pokeberry dyed dress, a singin': 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot,
-Jesus Gonna Carry Me Home'. Then I think 'bout dat word 'carry' in de
-tune and dat word 'home' in de song and dat word 'me' twist and 'tween
-them two words 'carry' and 'home', I says: 'Come 'round here, mule. Dat
-sun soon go down; ain't got long here for to stay. You got to eat and
-you's got to trot and I's got to ride. You's got to carry me to see
-Carrie.' I went dat night and ask her for to be my wife. Her say: 'Dis
-is mighty sudden, Mose. When de idea fust come to you?' Then I tell her
-and she laugh. What she laugh 'bout? Laugh at de fool things I tell her
-and de very joy of de moment.
-
-"Us marry dat fall and have had nine chillun. Who they? Dere's Henry,
-Tozier, Lydia, McGee, Nancy, Tolliver, Bessie, May, and Carita. Carita
-name Carrie for her mammy but her loll it 'bout her tongue and change it
-to Carita.
-
-"Old Marse Dr. John McMahon was of de buckra type. Freedom come too
-soon. De nigger was de right arm of de buckra class. De buckra was de
-horn of plenty for de nigger. Both suffer in consequence of
-freedom."
-
-George McAlilley
-================
-
- | **Interview with George McAlilley, 84 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-George McAlilley lives with his son-in-law, daughter, and small
-grandchildren, in a one-room frame house, with a lean-to shed room
-annex. The annex has no fireplace, no window, is ten feet by eight feet
-in dimension and it is in this pen that George and the two small
-children sleep. The house is three miles north of the town of Winnsboro,
-set back in a cotton field, 500 yards east of US #21.
-
-George gathers the firewood from the neighboring woods, picks
-blackberries in summer, and assists in the harvesting of cotton from the
-fields in September.
-
-"You think I feeble? Looks is 'ceivin' sometimes. Dere is some stren'th
-in me yet. Just set a nice dish of collards, fat back, corn bread, and
-buttermilk befo' dis old nigger and you can see what dese old gums can
-do wid them. 'Spects I can make 'way wid a plate of fried chicken, too,
-quick as de nex' one. If you don't believe it, try me dis day, at dinner
-time!
-
-"I was born in slavery time, on Mr. Jno. S. Douglas's plantation, close
-to Little River. I b'long to him. He told me I was born in 1853. Had it
-wrote down in a book. When I was birthed, de master set de date down in
-a book, wid de name of my pappy, Joe and my mammy, Rachael. Bless de
-Lord! They b'long to de same master and live on de same place, in a
-teency log house. I 'members it. I sho' does. De roof leaked and us had
-a time when it rain.
-
-"My mistress name Miss Maggie; she was a fine woman. Come from de Boyce
-stock, a buckra. I tells you dere was no finer mistress in de land, than
-she was. She was good to her little niggers; special, I 'low! I was one
-of them.
-
-"Us had a white overseer, Mr. Erwin. If it hadn't been for my mistress,
-'spect he'd a wore de hide off me one time when he ketched me in de
-watermelon patch.
-
-"What kind of work I do? Hoe cotton, pick cotton, pick peas, mind de
-cows and keep de calf off at milkin' time. I plowed some de last year of
-de war, '65 it was.
-
-"My marster and mistress was very 'ligious in deir 'suasions. They was
-Seceders and 'tended Hew Hope Church. When us went dere, us went up in
-de gallery. No piano nor organ was 'lowed in de church them days. I set
-up dere many a Sabbath and see Marse Robin Stinson knock his fork on de
-bench, hold it to his ear, and h'ist de tune. Then all jine in and let
-me tell you it had to be one of de Bible psalms, by de sweet singer of
-Israel, and no common glory hallelujah hymn. No sir, they didn't
-tolerate deir chillun engagin' in breakin' de Sabbath in dat way!
-
-"It sorta comes to my mind dat in de summer time after crops was lay by,
-us went to hear one of our color expound de word in a brush harbor, nigh
-Feasterville. His name was Alfred Moore, de pappy of Isaiah and Phillip
-Moore. You sho' knows them two. 'Member us had to git a pass to go to
-dat meetin'. Patarollers (patrollers) was dere, and if you didn't have a
-pass you got a whippin' and was sent home. Can I tell you some of de
-tales dat Isaiah and Phillip Moore used to tell? Yes sir! When you gits
-through wid me, I'll tell you one or two.
-
-"No sir, I never marry durin' slavery time. I was just a boy; wasn't too
-young to like de gal's company, though. Marse John was a rich man; had
-two plantations. One was de home place and de other de river place,
-where de corn, oats, and hay was raised. He had a flock of sheep, too.
-
-"All of our clothes was made from wool and cotton dat was made right
-dere on de plantation. Wool was sheared from de sheep. Cotton was picked
-from de field. De cotton was hand-carded, took to de spinnin' wheels,
-made into thread, loomed into cloth, sewed into clothes, or knitted into
-socks and stockin's.
-
-"Marster had a hoss-gin and a screw-pit, to git de seed out de cotton
-and pack de lint into bales. My brothers was Vince, Bill, Sam, and John.
-My sisters was Mary and Liza.
-
-"Does I recollect de Yankees? I sho' does. They burnt de gin-house and
-school house. Took de mules, hosses, chickens, and eggs. Marster was
-sharp 'nough to bury de meat in de woods, 'long wid other things they
-didn't git. They set de house afire at de last, and rode off. Us put de
-fire out and save de mansion for Marse John.
-
-"I didn't jine de church in slavery time; lak to dance then. Our fiddler
-was Buck Manigo, de best fiddler, black or white, in de State, so white
-folks say.
-
-"Ku Klux didn't come 'round our parts. My ma stay on as cook, after
-freedom. I stay for $5.00 a month and eat at de kitchen. I was always a
-democrat and weared a red shirt in de Hampton parades.
-
-"I marry Patsy Jenkins. She live twenty years and us had seven chillun.
-Did you know, boss, after Patsy dead and buried, I got to be a old fool
-'bout women again? Dat I did. De devil put it into dis old gray head to
-marry a young gal; Mary Douglas was her name. Joy come dat fust night
-and misery popped in de door de very nex' mornin'. Us couldn't 'G' 'bout
-nothin'. She, at de last, left me for 'nother man over on de Broad River
-side. I's steered my course clear of de women's skirts ever since. I's
-now livin' wid my grand-daughter, Irene Wilson, 'bove town.
-
-"'Bout de tale you want to hear. Well, Preacher Alfred Moore, a
-colored slave, search de scripture for names for his chillun. One boy
-him name Isaiah and one name Phillip. They both was mighty good slaves
-of Dr. Walter Brice, our doctor. My marster and Dr. Price's son, Marse
-Thomas, marry sisters and I see a heat of Isaiah and Phillip. Isaiah had
-a tale 'bout Niggerdemos (Nicodemus) and Phil had a tale 'bout a eunuch.
-Which one you want to hear? Both? I's gittin' tired. I'll just tell
-Isaiah's tale 'bout Niggerdemos. You has seen de blisters on sycamore
-trees? I knows you have. Well, Isaiah 'low they come 'bout in dis way:
-In de days of de disciples dere was a small colored man named
-Niggerdemos (Nicodemus), dat was a republican and run a eatin' house in
-Jerusalem. He done his own cookin' and servin' at de tables. He heard de
-tramp, tramp, tramp of de multitude a comin', and he asked: 'What dat
-goin' on outside?" They told him de disciples done borrowed a colt and
-was havin' a parade over de city. Niggerdemos thought de good Lord would
-cure him of de lumbago in his back. Hearin' folks a shoutin', he throwed
-down his dish rag, jerked off his apron, and run for to see all dat was
-gwine on, but havin' short legs he couldn't see nothing'. A big sycamore
-tree stood in de line of de parade, so Niggerdemos climbed up it, goin'
-high 'nough for to see all. De Savior tell him: 'Come down; we gwine to
-eat at your house, Niggerdemos'. Niggerdemos come down so fast, when he
-hear dat, he scrape de bark off de tree in many places. Niggerdemos was
-sho' cured of de lumbago but sycamores been blistered ever since. Nex'
-time you pass a sycamore tree, look how it is blistered. Isaiah is
-asleep now, in de white folks graveyard at Concord Church. I's seen his
-tombstone. On it is wrote his age and day of his death. B'low dat, is
-just dis: 'As good as ever fluttered'. His young Marster Tommie put it
-dere."
-
-Ed McCrorey (Mack)
-==================
-
- | **Interview with Ed McCrorey (Mack), 82 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"Yas sah, I was born in slavery time, on de Lord's Day. I 'members mammy
-tellin' me, but just which month, I disremembers dat. De year done gone
-out my 'membrance, but I is eight-two. You'll have to help figger dat
-year out for me. It was befo' de Yankees come, 'cause I see them then. I
-good size chap, I was dat day.
-
-"My marster was Wateree Jim McCrorey. My mistress name Miss Sara. Sure
-she de wife of Marster Jim. Does I recollect de chillun? 'Spect I can
-name most of them. Young Marster Bill marry a Miss Harper kin to de old
-Jedge Harper. Miss Sara, her marry a Beaty, a buckra, and Marster John
-got killed in de war.
-
-"My father was name Washington, after General George Washington, though
-he got nothin' but 'Wash' in de handlin' of his name. My mammy name
-Dolly, after de President's wife 'Dolly'. De white folks tell mammy dat
-her was name for a very great lady. You ask me why I say father and not
-say mother? Well boss, let me see; maybe I regard father, but I loves
-mammy. My white folks say father but I learnt on de breast and knees of
-mammy to say mammy, and dat's a sweet name to dis old nigger, which and
-how I ain't gonna change 'less her changes it when I git to heaven bye
-and bye.
-
-"Marster Jim live on Wateree Creek. Had big plantation and a heap of
-slaves. Maybe you knows de place. Marster Troy own it, after de war. De
-Yankees never burn up de house. It catch afire from a spark out de
-chimney of de house dat Marster Troy was habitatin' then. Yas sah,
-Yankees took all they could carry way, but didn't touch de house.
-Marster Troy kept a bar and lots of poor white trash continually 'round
-dere smokin'. 'Spect some of them no 'count folks caused de fire.
-
-"Lord bless you! Yas sah, us had plenty to eat and wear; wore shoes in
-winter, though they were sorta stiff, de wooden bottoms make them dat
-way. Us boys run 'round in our shirt tails in summer time. Us lak dat!
-
-"What I lak best to eat in them times? 'Lasses and pone bread for
-breakfast; roastin' ears, string beans, hog jowls, bread and buttermilk
-for dinner; and clabber and blackberry cobbler for supper. Them's good
-eatin's I tell you!
-
-Did I ever git a whippin'? Lordy, Lordy! did I? Once I 'members one
-moonlight night 'bout midnight, a gettin' up off my pallet on de floor,
-goin' out in de sugar cane patch and gittin' a big stalk of de cane.
-When I gits back to our house, young Marster Jim ketch me and say: 'Dat
-you Ed?' I'd lak to deny it was me, but dere I was, ketch wid de cane on
-me. What could I say? I just say: 'Please Marster Jim, don't tell old
-marster, just do wid me what you laks'. He make his face grim and
-sentence come from his mouth: 'Ten lashes and privilege of eatin' de
-cane, or five lashes and de cane be given de pigs in de pen; lashes
-'plied wid a hame string on de bare back and rump'. Dat last word seem
-to tickle him and he laugh. Dat brightened me some. 'Which you goin' to
-take', say young marster. I say, 'I wants de sugar cane, Marster Jimmy,
-but please make de lashes soft as you can'. Then he git stern again,
-took me by de hand, lead me to de harness house, got a hame string and
-say, 'Now don't you bellow, might wake mother'. Then he give me de ten
-lashes and they wasn't soft a-tall. I didn't cry out on de night wind
-though. Dat ended it.
-
-"My white folks 'tended Wateree Church. I never went to church in time
-of slavery, though. I now b'longs to de Big Zion African Methodist
-Church in Chester, S.C. What I feel lak when I jine? I felt turnt all
-'round, new all over. It was lak I never had been, never was, but always
-is to be 'til I see Him who clean my heart. Now you is teched on sumpin'
-dat I better be quiet 'bout.
-
-"I marry Emily Watson, sumpin' 'bout her attractive to all men, white
-men in particular. After I got four chillun by her, one of de big white
-men of de county have a ruction wid his widow-wife and step chillun.
-They left him. Emily was a cookin' for him. It wasn't long befo' she
-quit comin' home at night. I leaves de place. Emily have four chillun by
-dat white man. One of my chillun by Emily, is a street sweeper for de
-town of Winnsboro. 'Spect he is fifty years old. Dat was our oldest
-child. De second one up and marry a preacher, Rev. Brown. De other two
-in New Jersey and they make a heap of money they say, but I never see de
-color of dat money.
-
-"Our neighbors was Gen. Bratton and Capt. Ed. P. Mobley. Both powerful
-rich men and just 'bout set de style of polite livin'. Everybody looked
-up to General Bratton, expected nothin', got nothin'. Everybody dat come
-'round Marster Ed. P. Mobley, expect sumpin' and went away wid sumpin'.
-
-"After freedom, Marster Ed's son, Marster Mose, marry Miss Minnie
-McCrorey; her de mother of Marster Bill Mobley, County Treasurer,
-Richland County. She die and Marster Mose take another sister, Miss
-Emma. Her son big doctor at Florence, S.C.
-
-"Does I know any funny stories? Does you want a true story? Yas? Well,
-all Marster Ed Mobley's niggers lak to stay wid him after freedom. They
-just stay on widout de whippin's. 'Stead of whippin's they just got
-cussin's, good ones too. Dere was two old men, Joe Raines and Joe
-Murray, dat he was 'ticular fond of. Maybe he more love Joe Raines de
-bestest. One day Joe Murray let de cows git away in de corn field. At
-dinner time Marster Ed cuss him befo' de whole crowd of hands, layin'
-'round befo' dinner; and he cuss him powerful. After dinner Joe Murray
-grieve and complain much 'bout it to de crowd. Joe Raines up and allow:
-'Next time he cuss you, do lak I do, just cuss him back. Dis is a free
-country, yas sah. Just give him as good a cussin' as he gives you'.
-
-"Not long after dat, de boar hog git out de lot gate, when Joe Murray
-was leadin' his mule out. Marster Ed lit out on Joe Murray a cussin' and
-Joe Murray lit out on Marster Ed a cussin', and then Marster Ed ketch
-Joe and give him a slavery time whippin' and turn him loose. Joe Murray
-take his mule on to de field, where he glum wid Joe Raines. Joe Murray
-tell 'bout de boar hog gitting out and de cussin's and de whippin's. Joe
-Raines allow: 'You didn't cuss him right. You never cuss him lak I cuss
-him, or you'd a never got a whippin'.' Joe Murray allow: 'How you cuss
-him then, Joe?' Say Joe Raines very slow, 'Well when I cuss Marster Ed,
-I goes way down in de bottoms where de corn grow high and got a black
-color. I looks east and west and north and south. I see no Marster Ed.
-Then I pitches into him and gives him de worst cussin' a man ever give
-another man. Then when I goes back to de house, my feelin's is satisfied
-from de cussin' I have give him, and he is sure to make up wid me for
-Marster Ed don't bear anger in his bosom long. De next time cuss him but
-be sure to go way off somewhere so he can't hear you, nigger'.
-
-"Some time I sorry I's free. I have a hard time now. If it was slavery
-time, I'd be better off in my body and easy in my mind. I stays wid my
-daughter, Emily. My old marster, Wateree Jim, is de bestest white man I
-has ever knowed. My race has never been very good to me.
-
-"I was too young to work much, just 'tend to de cows, carry water in de
-fields, pick up chips, find de turkey and guinea nests. I's never voted
-in my life, never been in jail in my life. Seem lak I's just a branch or
-pond dryin' up on de road side, and de onliest friend I's got is de
-President and dat good old dog of mine.
-
-"Goodbye and God bless you sir, 'til we meet again."
-
-Richard Mack
-============
-
- | **Interview with Richard Mack, 104 years old**
- | **Rosemont School, Charleston, S.C.**
- | —*Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C.*
-
-Richard Mack, a happy philosopher, 104 years old, in perfect mental and
-physical condition, is still working as janitor of the Rosemont school.
-He is of the aquiline type, with eyes bright and deep set, and a black
-skin with a red light shining through, showing Indian relationship.
-
-"I was born in Limestone, Va. My first master was Green Bobo. I was sold
-when I was ten years old; not really sold, but sold on a paper that said
-if he didn't take care of me, I would come back—a paper on me—a kind
-of mortgage—speculators bought negroes and sell um. Missis, I never had
-a stripe put on me. I had a privilege of being among all people."
-(Richard Mack enjoyed every experience of his life and has no root of
-bitterness in his nature). "Then I come to South Carolina. My mother,
-Jane, she live to be 108; she come to South Carolina too. We got back
-together again," (he paused with a bright smile) "Orangeburg, at Captain
-Cherry's—Captain Cherry here in Charleston is related to him—Cherry
-Plantation is there now; Captain Cherry had plenty of money.
-
-"Tony was my father, a carriage driver; he wore his tall hat and fine
-clothes (livery) and he was a musician—played the violin at the Academy
-on the 'old Ninety-Six Road'. All the white people educated their
-children there, and they had parties. Oh, the beautifulest ladies—they
-wore long dresses then and had long hair—the beautifulest! My
-father—Daddy Tony, they call him—he was a musician—always played the
-violin." Here he mentioned the names of songs of that day, before the
-War of 1861, and repeated these words with much merriment:
-
- | Would have been married forty year ago,
- | If it hadn't been for Cotton Eye Joe
-
-"Songs—lots of um—
-
- | Run nigger, run, de Patrol ketch you
-
-He roared with laughter—"When de patrol come, I had my badge; I show
-him my paper and my badge! I got it still. I love dem days—I love dem
-people.
-
-"My mother was a good woman—she used to get down on her knees, like
-this, and get up like this," (he knelt with agility, and rose unassisted,
-quickly, and without the least difficulty). "My aunt lived to be 141; she
-saw George Washington—she told me so.
-
-"Cherokee—Kickapoo—I don't remember—my great grandfather was an
-Indian Chief—my nose is straight, see here." He went into the pocket of
-his overall, brought out a pair of eyeglasses, put them on the end of
-his nose, and looked over them.
-
-"I loved dem days, I loved dem people. We lived better—we had no
-money—we had nothing to worry about—just do your task. Spin wheel and
-reel and reel for the yarn. I filled my arms full of quilt—hand made.
-Had task; I done all my task, and I help others with their task so they
-wouldn't get whipped; if people lazy and wont do, they got to be made to
-do; if children bad they get whipped—if nigger bad, they get a
-whipping.
-
-"Old Satan wear a big shoe—he got one club foot. He can disguise
-himself—he make you think he got power, but he ain't got any power. He
-get you in trouble and leave you there. I always pray for wisdom and
-understanding like Solomon. I pray all the time to our good Father.
-People say—'Why you call him Good Father?'" (Quoted from the Bible) "I
-love everybody—'Love thy neighbor as thyself.'
-
-"Yes Ma'am! Oh Heaven!—we got to be clean—we change out of the flesh
-to the spirit; a crown prepared for us; all we save and help are stars
-in our crown; you go from Mansion to Mansion—higher—higher." (He
-raised his arms with a rapt look)
-
-Then he was told about "Green Pastures" and asked what he thought of it.
-"Why my Lord have Mercy! The Lord is a Spirit—we are changed.
-
-"I roll the carpet for Missis to get in the carriage; a two-foot carpet
-from the house roll to the stoop for the carriage.
-
-"My mother—yes Ma'am—108 years old—a smart woman in the house. Oh my
-Lord, Missis—cook! She wouldn't kill a chicken out of the yard; she had
-a coop to put them in, and it was cleaned out every day. My mother would
-fix the flowers; she would take this little flower, and that little
-flower, and put them together, and make up a beautiful bouquet, and hand
-them out to everybody. My father knew all about planting; the people
-would come to ask 'Daddy Tony' how to plant this and when to plant that.
-
-"I heard all the War talk, I saw a comet." (Indicating its position in
-the heavens, he seemed inspired, forgot his surroundings, looking back).
-"I saw the curtain-cloud—and snow clouds—rolls and rolls. In the War I
-was with my master, Capt. Cherry, and Dr. Knox, Captain in the Civil
-War, and Capt. Dick McMichael—all those fine gentlemen. They had
-hog-skin saddles that creaked—Crench—crench—as they rode;" (He was
-enthusiastic) "the way they could ride! Those hosses were as sensible as
-people; they could jump from side to side; they knew everything.
-
-"Capt. Cherry said to me—'Why weren't you white! Why weren't you white!
-Why weren't you white!' I lost my old Captain—then I was with Gen.
-Frank Bamberg, and with his brother, Capt. Isaac Bamberg—I was Orderly.
-Sometimes in the War we had one hardtack a day, and had to drink water
-on 'um, to make 'um swell. We had to get out salt out of water, most
-anywhere."
-
-"I saw Gen. Lee many times; I knew him; he had his close beard around
-his face; he looked fine and sat his horse so splendid." Mack was asked
-the color of the horse, and described the gray. Here he remembered the
-battlefield—"I did this"—he enacted silently—dexterously—the placing
-of the dead and wounded on the stretchers and bearing them away—worked
-so rapidly that his breath was labored. "I made the balloon flight—my
-eyes were good—they carried me because any object that I saw, I knew
-what it was; a rope ladder led up to the basket—the beautiful thing—we
-went up on the other side of Beaufain street; there were no houses there
-then, and we came down on the Citadel Green."
-
-Mack had spoken several times with enthusiasm of the officer's cavalry
-'pump sole boots'. After he had polished them, "Capt. Edwards (of
-Elloree) gave me a $500.00 bill for cleaning his 'pump sole boots'."
-Mack proudly enacted the Captain's jolly but pompous manner, as he gave
-the bill, and added, "I had thousands of dollars in Confederate money
-when the War broke up. If we had won I would be rich."
-
-After War period: "The time Capt. Wade Hampton was stumping I followed
-him all over the State; I led 500 head; was with him to Camden,
-Orangeburg and all the way to Hampton County; led 500 Negroes through
-the County; I was Captain of them; I rode 'Nellie Ponsa' and wore my red
-jacket and cap and boots; I had a sword too; my 'red shirt' died year
-before last."
-
-Asked if he knew 'Riley', Mack answered promptly—"'Democrat Riley',
-yes Ma'am, used to drive that fine carriage, and old Col. Cunningham's
-family." Riley was an ex-slave, a tall black man, devoted to the South,
-as he was, a Democrat of high principle, and respected by all—hated by
-many—a power in himself.
-
-"I lose all my ancestors. I got a niece, Queenie Brown, in Orangeburg; I
-got a daughter in New Jersey; one in New York, married to a Clyde Line
-man; lost sight of both; both old.
-
-"Bless the Lord! I got friends! Mr. Pooser came to see me yesterday;
-been in South America four years; just got back and hunt me up right
-off! Married Miss Dantzler of Orangeburg—I raised them all"—with a
-benign look of love end ownership.
-
-Jake McLeod
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Jake McLeod, 83 years old**
- | **Timmonsville, S.C.**
- | —*Mrs. Lucile Young and H. Grady Davis, Florence, S.C.*
-
-"You see what color I am. I born in Lynchburg, South Carolina de 13th
-day of November, 1854. Born on de McLeod place. Grandparents born on de
-McLeod place too. My white folks, dey didn' sell en buy slaves en dat
-how-come my grandfather Riley McLeod fell to Frank McLeod en grandmother
-fell to de McRaes. My boss give my grandfather to his sister, Carolina,
-dat had married de McRae, so dey wouldn' be separated. Dey take dem en
-go to Florida en when de Yankees went to Florida, dey hitched up de
-teams en offered to bring dem back to South Carolina. Some of my uncles
-en aunts come back, but my grandfather en grandmother stayed in Florida
-till dey died.
-
-"De McLeods, dey was good people. Believe in plenty work, eat en wear
-all de time, but work us very reasonable. De overseer, he blow horn for
-us to go to work at sunrise. Give us task to do en if you didn' do it,
-dey put de little thing to you. Dat was a leather lash or some kind of a
-whip. Didn' have no whippin post in our neighborhood. I recollect my
-boss unmercifully whipped man I thought, but I found out dat it was
-reasonable. He (the slave) beat up my uncle (a slave) en my old boss put
-it on him. Striped him down en tied him wid buckskin string. Whipped him
-till he get tired en come back en whip him more. I looked right on at
-it. When he turn him loose, told him to go. See him whip my mother one
-time 'cause she whip me. Caught her by de hand en whip her right in de
-same field dat she whip me. It was so hot I dig holes en put my foot in
-de hole en dat de reason she whip me. Den if he find anyone steal a
-thing, he whip dem for dat.
-
-"Dey didn' have no jails in dem days, but I recollects one woman hanged
-on de galleries (gallows). Hang dem up by harness en broke neck for
-wrongdoing like killin somebody or tryin to kill. Old woman cookin for
-de Scotts, named Peggy, tried to poison de Scotts. Mean to her, she say,
-en she put poison in de coffee. My mother walked 'bout 10 miles to see
-dat hangin' 'cause dey turn de slaves loose to go to a hangin'. Took her
-from de quarter in de wagon en I heard her tell dat de old lady, Peggy,
-was sittin on her coffin. My mother say she used to use so much
-witchcraft en some one whispered, 'Why don' you do somethin 'bout it?'
-She say, 'It too late now.' I hear tell 'bout dem hangin', but I ain'
-see none of it.
-
-"My boss had four slave houses dat was three or four hundred yards from
-his house en I reckon he had 'bout 25 slaves. One was pole house wid
-brick chimney en two rooms petitioned off en de other three was clay
-house. Us had frame bed en slept on shucks en hay mattress. Dey didn'
-give us no money but had plenty to eat every day. Give us buttermilk en
-sweeten potatoes en meat en corn bread to eat mostly. Catch nigger wid
-wheat, dey give him 'wheat'. Den dey let us have a garden en extra
-patches of we own dat we work on Saturday evenings. En we catch much
-rabbits en fish as us want. Catch pikes en eels en cats. Catch fish wid
-hook en line in Lynches river wid Senator E.D. Smith's father. Rev. Bill
-Smith de father of E.D. Smith.
-
-"De white folks, dey had a woman to each place to weave de cloth en make
-all us clothes. De women had to weave five cuts a week, one cut a night.
-Have reel in de shape of wheel en spokes turn en hold thread en turn en
-when it click, it a cut. Any over, keep it to de next week. Dey wore
-cotton clothes in de summer en wool clothes in de winter en had more den
-one garment too. Had different clothes to wear on Sunday 'cause de slaves
-go to de white folks church in dat day en time. Den dey had shoemaker to
-come dere en make all de colored peoples shoes. De Durant shoemaker come
-to de McLeod plantation en make dey shoes.
-
-"I tellin you my boss was a good man en he had a big plantation wid six
-or seven hundred acres of land, but he didn' have to mind to see 'bout
-none of de work. De overseer name Dennis en he was de one to look out
-for all de plantation work. He lived on de McLeod place en he was good
-man to us. I had to thin cotton en drop peas en corn en I was a half
-[HW: hand] two years durin de war. If a whole hand hoes one acre, den a
-half hand hoes half a acre. Dat what a half hand is. Waited on de
-wounded de last year of de war.
-
-"Wheat, peas, corn en cotton was de things dat peoples plant mostly in
-dem days. Dis how I see dem frail de wheat out. Put pole in hard land en
-drive horse in circle en let dem stamp it out. You could ride or walk.
-Two horses tramp en shake it out en den take straws en have somethin to
-catch it in en wind it out. Had to pick en thrash a bushel of peas a
-day.
-
-"When corn haulin time come, every plantation haul corn en put in circle
-in front of de barn. Have two piles en point two captains. Dey take
-sides en give corn shuckin like dat. Shuck corn en throw in front of
-door en sometimes shuck corn all night. After dey get through wid all de
-shuckin, give big supper en march all round old Massa's kitchen en
-house. Have tin pans, buckets en canes for music en dance in front of de
-house in de road. Go to another place en help dem shuck corn de next
-time en so on dat way.
-
-"My old Miss en Massa, dey always look after dey slaves when dey get
-sick. Use herbs for dey medicine. I used to know different herbs my
-mother would get. Boneset en life-everlastin make teas for fever en
-colds. When I was a boy, dey used to carry dem what have smallpox by de
-swamp en built a dirt house for dem. Kept dem dere en somebody carried
-feed to dem. People used to have holes in dey skin wid dat thing en most
-of dem died.
-
-"I hear tell 'bout one man runnin away from Black Creek en gwine to Free
-State. Catch ride wid people dat used to travel to Charleston haulin
-cotton en things. He come back 'bout 15 years after de war en lived in
-dat place join to me. Come back wid barrels en boxes of old second hand
-clothes en accumulated right smart here. Talk good deal 'bout how he
-associated wid de whites. Don' know how-come he run away, but dey didn'
-catch up wid him till it was too late. De community have man den call
-pataroller en dey business was to catch dem dat run away. Say like you
-be authorized to look after my place, you catch dem dat slipped off to
-another man place. Couldn' leave off plantation to go to another place
-widout you ask for a pass en have it on you. White folks used to kill
-beef what dey call club beef. If you kill beef this week, you send this
-one en that one a piece till de beef all gone. White folks give me pass
-en tell me carry beef en deliver it. Next time, another man send us
-beef.
-
-"I run away one time en somehow another de overseer know whe' I was. I
-recollects old Miss had me tied to de tester bedstead en she whip me
-till de whip broke. I see her gettin another arm 'bout full en I tear
-loose en run away. I slip home on steps at my mother's house lookin down
-playin wid de cat en look up in her face. She say, 'You good for nothin,
-you get out of here en get to dat barn en help dem shuck corn.' I go but
-I didn' go in 'cause I keep a watch on her. Another time boss had a
-horse apple tree dat just had one apple on it en he wanted to save dat
-apple till it get ripe enough for seed en fall. White man, I couldn'
-stand it. I eat dat apple. He put it on me dat time 'cause he saw my
-tracks en dat how he knew it was me. He know it was me en I couldn' get
-out of it.
-
-"I get married in '76. My old boss, we all went gether. Red Shirt
-canvassed the country. People tried to get me to quit my wife 'cause dey
-say de Democrats would bring back slavery. Some voted 8 or 10 tickets. I
-was on de stand when Hampton spoke in Sumter. Chamberlain was elected on
-de Republican ticket. Sam Lee one of de men. He was white. I believe he
-was colored. Wade Hampton have him brought on de stand en ask questions.
-Ask what kind of Government it gwine be. Dey had tissue tickets en
-blindfolded man en he didn' take out tissue tickets. Name en number on
-de ticket.
-
-"All I know 'bout de war dat bring freedom was dat de war was gwine on.
-I remember when dey couldn' get coffee, sugar or nothin like dat. You
-know dat was a tough time to think 'bout we couldn' get no salt. Cut up
-potatoes en parch to make coffee. Sweetened wid syrup en fore de war
-closed, made sugar from sugar cane. Boil dirt out de smoke house en put
-liquor in food. Eat poke berry for greens. Den one day we hear gun fire
-in Charleston en Miss made miration. I don' remember freedom, but I
-know when we signed de contract, de Yankees give us to understand dat we
-was free as our Massa was. Couldn' write, just had to touch de pin. Ask
-us what name we wanted to go in. We work on den for one third de crop de
-first year wid de boss furnishing everything. Soon as got little ahead
-went to share-cropping.
-
-"I tell you it been a pretty hard time to be up against. I own dis here
-place en my nephew live here wid me. Dey give him government job wid de
-understandin he help me. Get $24.00 a month en live off dat. Daughters
-in New York pay tax. If dey carry out de President's plan, it be a good
-one. It been pretty tough in some instance. God sent thing. I tell you
-it a good thing. If carried out like de President want it carried out,
-it be better den slavery time. You know some slaves got along mighty bad
-'cause most of de white people won' like our white folks.
-
-"I belongs to de Methodist church en I believe it de right thing. Man
-ought to do as God arranged it 'cause he plan it. We know right from
-wrong."
-
-Bill McNeil
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Bill McNeil, 82 years old**
- | **Ridgeway, S.C.**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"In December 1855, de family Bible say, I was born on de McNeil Place in
-York County. De last person who have dat Bible was Captain Conductor
-True of de Southern Railroad trains. Had dis one name in dat Bible, just
-'Bill' is set down on de page. I hear them say de Good Book am now in
-Tennessee, but I wouldn't swear to dat. I was born 'bout twelve miles
-from Chester Court House on a creek called Bullock or something lak dat.
-
-"My pappy name Will; my mammy name Leah. I was put down in de Book as
-their child. When Miss Jane, daughter of old Marster McNeil, (I forgits
-his first name) marry, then my new marster was Marster Jim True. Miss
-Jane just up and marry Marster Jim and come wid him to Fairfield. Then
-old Marster McNeil give me, my mammy, and brother Eli, to Miss Jane.
-
-"My pappy done passed out, ceased to live, befo' us come to Fairfield.
-Him b'long to de Rainey family of York. Had to git a pass to see his
-wife and chillun. Dat was one of de hard parts of slavery, I thinks.
-Does I 'members Conductor True's name? Sho, I does. It was Thurston
-True. When I git on de train him always slap me on de head and say:
-'Well Bill, how your corporosity seem to sagasherate dis morning?' And I
-say: 'Very galopshous, I thanks you, Captain'. Then us both laugh, and
-he pass on down de coach and all de people on dat car 'steem me very
-highly. I feel a little bigger than all de other niggers, all dat day
-long, I sho does.
-
-"Does you know de Warren Castles' Place? 'Bout two miles from dere is
-where us lived befo' freedom. Marster Jim True was killed in de war. Us
-carry on then and make corn for de 'federate army. Our house had a dirt
-floor and a stick and mud chimney. Us slept on a pallet on de floor. In
-de summer time I run 'round in my shirt tail.
-
-"De overseer, Tom True, de daddy of Marster Jim was a rough and hard
-task marster. After freedom I went to de Rembert Place, Wateree Creek,
-then to de DesPortes' Place five miles from Winnsboro, then to de Jordan
-Place on de Gum Tree Road, then to de Buchanan Place, then I buy seventy
-acres from Mr. Jim Curlee and live there every since 1905. My wife was
-there wid me and my daughter and her four chillun, Willie, Anne, Andy
-and Henrietta Jackson.
-
-"I got a heap of whippin's in slavery time from old Marster Tom True. I
-see lots of de Yankees and their doings in war time. They just ride
-high, burn and take off everything from us, lak they did everywhere
-else.
-
-"I vote de 'publican ticket, as I try to show my 'preciation, and dat
-gits me in bad wid de Klu Klux. They scare me, but no touch me. De red
-shirts try to 'suade me to vote their way. Some of de best white folks
-was in dat movement, but this time I 'members old Tom True beating me
-often for little or nothing. I sticks out to de end wid de party dat
-freed me.
-
-"I find out, and you'll find out, boss, dat only de Lord is pure in de
-beginning and to de end, in His plans. De works of man and parties lak
-democrat and 'publican have their day; if they reign long enough de
-people will mourn so de Bible say.
-
-"My old overseer, Marster Tom was a school teacher. I feel sorry for de
-chillun he teached, 'cause him whip me just when him git out of sorts.
-Miss Jane couldn't stop him, she just cry.
-
-"Yas sir, I have knowed good white men. Mr. Warren Castles was a good
-man, and Manigault here in town is fit to go to heaven, when he die. I
-sure dat he is, although he is a nigger.
-
-"My house and land worth $590.00, but I been going back'ards every year
-for last eight years. Can't get labor, can't work myself. Wonder if you
-white folks will help me get a pension. I's not going to beg. Dats my
-last word."
-
-Andy Marion
-===========
-
- | **Interview with Andy Marion, 92 years**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"Yes, sir, I was born befo' de war 'tween de white folks, on account of
-us niggers. They was powerful concerned 'bout it and we was not. My
-mammy always said she found me a babe in de chinkapin bushes, but you
-can leave dat out if you want to. They say I comed into de world in
-1844. I sho' was a good plow-hand when de first gun was fired at some
-place down near Charleston; I think it was at Sumter. They say I was
-born where Marster Eugene Mobley lives now, but it b'longed to Marster
-William Brice, when I was born in 1844, bless God! My father named Aleck
-and my mother Mary. Us colored folks didn't git names 'til after de war.
-I took my name, when I went up to de 'lection box first time to vote for
-Gen. Grant for president. My father was from old Virginia, my mother
-from South Carolina. Our plantation had seventy-two slaves living about
-here and yon in log houses wid dirt floors. They bored auger holes in de
-sides of de room, stuck end of poles in dese holes. De pole reach' out
-into de room and rested on wooden blocks sort of hollowed out on top;
-then some slats of pine finish up de contraption bed. Quilts was spread
-on dis which was all de bed we had.
-
-"I been married four times since de war and I'm here to tell you dat a
-nigger had a hell of a time gittin' a wife durin' slavery. If you didn't
-see one on de place to suit you and chances was you didn't suit them,
-why what could you do? Couldn't spring up, grab a mule and ride to de
-next plantation widout a written pass. S'pose you gits your marster's
-consent to go? Look here, de gal's marster got to consent, de gal got to
-consent, de gal's daddy got to consent, de gal's mammy got to consent.
-It was a hell of a way!
-
-"I helped my marster 'mong de bullets out along de Mississippi River,
-but I's glad we didn't whip them 'cause I's had four wives and dere is
-de las' one settin' right over dere, a fixin' you some strawberries and
-a shakin' her belly at me laughin' lak Sarah in de Bible and thinkin' of
-namin' de child of her old age, 'Isaac'.
-
-"What kind of work I do in slavery? I was de carriage driver. Us had a
-fine carriage and two high-steppin' horses, Frank and Charlie. I used to
-hear lots of things from behin' me, while drivin' de folks and saying
-nothin'. Money, did you say? We had no use for money. Kind words from de
-white folks was money 'nough for me. We just worked hard, eat more and
-slep' well. We got meat, hominy, and corn meal on Mondays and wheat
-bread, lard and 'lasses on Saturdays. No time for fishin' or huntin'.
-Married slaves was encouraged to have their own gardens. Our clothes was
-of wool in de winter from our own sheep, and cotton in de summer from
-our own fields. Had many spinnin' wheels and cards. Miss Mary, de
-mistress, saw to dis part.
-
-"Our white folks was Psalm-singin', old style Presbyterians. You
-daresn't whistle a hymn on Sunday which they called Sabbath. Just as
-soon as I got free, I jined de Baptist church, hard shell. Brother
-Wright is my preacher at Blackstock now. My marster, William Brice, his
-wife, Miss Mary, his son, Christie, and his daughters, Miss Lizzie, Miss
-Kitty and Miss Mary, was de ones I drove de carriage to Hopewell church
-on Sunday for. Dat church is flourishin' now. De pastor of dat church,
-Rev. John White, befo' he died I waited on him sixteen years, and in his
-will, he give me dis house and forty acres around it for my life. Dat's
-what I calls religion. My mistress was a angel, good, and big hearted. I
-lay my head in her lap many a time. Marster had a overseer twice. They
-was poor white trash, not as good as de niggers. Miss Mary run them both
-off and told marster what she couldn't see to when he was away, she'd
-pick out one of de slaves to see after. All de overseer done was to wake
-us up, see to feeding stock and act biggity. Us slaves worked from sun
-up to sun down.
-
-"Sometime befo' de war, my marster sold out and bought a big place in
-Mississippi. On de way dere, de slaves (grown) was chained together. Yes
-sir, de chain was 'round de necks. We went by wagons and steamboats
-sometimes. We stayed in Mississippi 'til durin' de war we refugeed back
-to South Carolina. Dat's when de Yankees got possession of de river. We
-settled near New Hope church. It was in dis church dat I saw sprinkling
-wid a kind a brush when baptizin' de chillun. Over at Hopewell, you had
-to have a brass trinket (token) to show befo' you could take Communion
-of de Saints. We was always compelled to go to church. Boss like for de
-slaves to sing while workin'. We had a jack-leg slave preacher who'd
-hist de tunes. Some was spirituals; my wife and me will sing you one
-now, 'Got to Fight de Devil when You Come Up out de Water'." (This was
-well rendered by the old man and his wife). "Nothing stopped for slave
-funerals. De truth is, I can't 'member any dyin' on our places. None of
-our slaves ever run away.
-
-"A pass was lak dis, on it was yo' name, what house you goin' to and de
-hour expected back. If you was cotched any other house, pataroller whip
-you sho'. Always give us Chris'mus Day. Dere was a number of dances dis
-time of de year. Got passes to different plantations. Dere would be corn
-shuckin' different places. Not much games or playin' in our set. Wife,
-let's sing another spiritual. Come on Janie, let's sing 'You Got to Lay
-Your Burden 'pon de Lord'.
-
-"Sickness of slaves was quickly 'tended to by de doctor. 'Member
-gallopin' for old Doctor Douglas many a time.
-
-"I went to de war from Mississippi as body guard for my marstar. I was
-close to de fightin' and see it. If it was hell then, it must be
-tarnation now wid all dese air-planes flyin' roun' droppin' booms on old
-people lak Janie and me, over dere fixin' them strawberries. De good
-Lord, save us from a war over Blackstock and my garden out dere!
-
-"I was free three years befo' I knowed it. Worked along just de same.
-One day we was in de field on Mr. Chris Brice's place. Men come along on
-big, black horse, tail platted and tied wid a red ribbon. Stopped, waved
-his hands and shouted 'You is free, all of you. Go anywhere you wants
-to'. Us quit right then and acted de fool. We ought to have gone to de
-white folks 'bout it. What did de Yankees do when they come? They tied
-me up by my two thumbs, try to make me tell where I hided de money and
-gold watch and silver, but I swore I didn't know. Did I hide it? Yes, so
-good it was two years befo' I could find it again. I put everything in a
-keg, went into de woods, spaded the dirt by a pine stump, put de keg in,
-covered it up wid leaves and left it. Sometime after, we looked for it,
-but couldn't find it. Two years later, I had a mule and cart in de
-woods. De mule's foot sunk down into de old stump hole and dere was de
-keg, de money, de silver and de watch. Marster was mighty glad dat I was
-a faithful servant, and not a liar and a thief lak he thought I was. My
-marstar was not a Ku Klux. They killed some obstreppary (obstreperous)
-niggers in them times.
-
-"I first married Sara Halsey in 1875, she had three chillun. She died.
-Ten months after, I took Harriett Daniels; she had three chillun, then
-she died. Eight months after, I married Millie Gladden, no chillun. She
-lived seventeen years, died, and ten years ago I fooled dat good-lookin'
-Jane a-settin' over dere. She was a widow then, she was de widow Arthur.
-She was a Caldwell, when she was born. We have no chillun but she is
-still lookin' for a blessin'." (Here the nonagenarian broke forth in a
-quiet chuckle).
-
-"There wasn't as much sin in slavery time, not as much sufferin', not as
-much sickness and eye-sore poverty. Dere was no peniten'try and chain
-gangs 'cause dere was no need for them. Cuttin' out de brutishness on
-some places, it was a good thing for de race."
-
-Milton Marshall
-===============
-
- | **Interview with Milton Marshall, (82)**
- | **Newberry, S.C. RFD**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I live in Newberry County, a few miles from town on Mr. Alan
-Johnstone's place. I rent and make a fair living. I have ten children
-now living and two dead. Dey is all on a farm. I was born in Union
-County, jes' across de Newberry line, near de Goshen Hill section. I was
-young when we moved to Newberry and I have lived dar nearly all my life.
-My father, Ned Worthy, was a slave of Frank Bynum's mother. My mother
-was Maria Worthy who was a slave of Mr. Burton Maybin. She cooked for a
-long time for de Maybin family.
-
-"I was small in slavery time, and played wid de white chaps. We used to
-go wid Mr. Burt Maybin to see dem muster at de old Goshen Hill muster
-ground.
-
-"Marse Burt Maybin owned 88 slaves, and I was one, and is de only one
-now living. We had no money in slavery time, jes' got food and clothes
-for our work; but my marster was a good feeder, always had enough to
-eat. Some of de marsters didn't give niggers much to eat, and dey had to
-slip off and steal. We had plenty of what was de rule for eating in dem
-days. We had home-made molasses, peas, cornbread and home raised meat
-sometimes. We killed rabbits and 'possums to eat, and sometimes went
-fishing and hunting. Marse wouldn't allow fishing and hunting on
-Sundays, but de chaps would slip off on Sundays sometimes and catch lots
-of fish.
-
-"Our clothes was made at home, spun and wove by de women folks and made
-by dem. Copper straw and white cloth was used. Our shoes was made by a
-shoe-maker in de neighborhood who was named Liles. Dey was made wid
-wooden soles or bottoms. Dey tanned de leather or had it tanned in de
-neighborhood. It was tacked around de soles. It was raw-hide leather,
-and de shoes had to be soaked in warm water and greased wid tallow or
-meat skin so de shoes would slip on de feet.
-
-"I married Missouri Rice at her own house. We had a big wedding and she
-wore a white dress wid two frills on it. I wore a dove-colored suit and
-a high brim hat wid a small crown. I bought de hat for $7.00 jes' to
-marry in, but used it for Sundays.
-
-"We had good white neighbors in slavery time. My marster and mistress
-was all right. All of us had to go to work at daylight and work till
-dark. Dey whipped us a little and dey was strict about some things.
-
-"Us chaps did not learn to read and write, dat is why I can't read and
-write today. Marse wouldn't allow us to learn. Once he saw me and some
-other chaps, white chaps, under a tree playing wid letter blocks. Dey
-had de ABC's on dem. Marse got awful mad and got off his horse and
-whipped me good.
-
-"De niggers didn't have a church on de plantation but was made to go to
-de white folks church and set in back of de church. Dey had to git a
-pass to go to church same as any other place, or de patrollers would
-catch 'em and beat 'em.
-
-"Atter de war was over de niggers built brush arbors for to hold
-meetings in. I sho' remember de old brush arbor and de glorious times
-den, and how de niggers used to sing and pray and shout. I am a Baptist
-and we baptised in de creek atter we dammed it up to hold water deep
-enough. Sometimes we used a waterhole in de woods. I remember one old
-Baptist song, it went:
-
- | Down to de water I be baptised, for my Savior die;
- | Down to de water, de River of Jordan,
- | Where my Savior baptised.
-
-"Some of de slaves was whipped while dey was tied to a stock. My marster
-was all right, but awful strict about two things, stealing and telling a
-lie. He sho' whipped dem if dey was caught in dem things. Some marsters
-didn't feed de slaves much, but my marster always had enough. Every
-Sunday he would give each nigger a quart of flour extra for breakfast.
-
-"We had to work all day Saturdays, but Marse wouldn't let anybody work
-on Sunday. Sometimes he would give de women part of Saturday afternoons
-so dey could wash. He wouldn't allow fishing and hunting on Sundays
-either, unless it looked like rain and de fodder in de field had to be
-brought in. He always give us Christmas Day off, and we had lots of good
-eats den.
-
-"I remember de old corn-shuckings, cotton-pickings and log-rollings. He
-would ask all de neighbors' hands in and dey would come by crowds. I can
-remember dem good. I remember de grain was put in drains and de horses
-was made to tramp on it to git de seed out. Den it was put in a house
-and poured in a big wooden fan machine which fanned out de chaff. De
-machine was turned by two men. Dey made molasses by taking de cane and
-squeezing out de juice in a big wooden machine. De machines now is
-different. Dey is made of cast.
-
-"A stage dat was drawn by two horses went past our place. It carried
-mail and people. When Marse wanted to send word to any people in de
-neighborhood he sent it by somebody on a horse.
-
-"Many of de slaves, and some old white people, too, thought dar was
-witches in dem days. Dey believed a witch could ride you and stop blood
-circulation.
-
-"Dar was many dogs on de farms, mostly hounds and bird dogs.
-
-"My grandfather was called 'Jack', and he was a nigger-driver. Dat was a
-nigger dat had to oversee de slaves when de marster was away from home.
-He would call de cows like dis, 'Su—wee, Su-wee' or 'Sook, Sook'. He
-called his dogs by whistling. He had several dogs. When grandpa died and
-was buried, his dogs would git out and bark and trail jes' like trailing
-a rabbit, and de trail always led to de graveyard. Dar dey would stand
-by his grave and howl for a long time, wid deir heads up in de air.
-
-"De old folks made medicines from root herbs and tree barks. Herb tea
-was made to keep away fevers. Marse always called his big chaps up to de
-house in de mornings and made dem drink chinaberry tea to keep worms
-from gitting in dem.
-
-"When freedom come, de slaves was notified dat a white man by de name
-Ban White would come to de plantation and make a speech to dem. He said,
-'Now dat you is free, you will be wid your marster, and he is willing to
-give you 1/3 of what you make. You is free, and dar will be no more
-whippings.' Den Marse said, while he was crying, 'You stay on wid me and
-I'll give you food and clothes and 1/3 of what you make.
-
-"Atter de war, de Ku Klux did bad in our neighborhood. Dey killed five
-or six niggers. I guess it was 'cause dey was Republicans and had trouble
-at voting times.
-
-"I never did think slavery was right. I was jes' a chap den and never
-thought much about it till long since it was over. De carpetbaggers dat
-come to our place tried to make me believe dat de white man was our
-enemy, but I found out better. I am a Democrat and always was one. I was
-40 years old when I repented of my sins and jined de church. I wanted to
-jine and be baptized and be saved."
-
-Charlie Meadow
-==============
-
- | **Interview with Charlie Meadow (83)**
- | **Rt. 2, Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"It bees so hot today dat I jes' setting here on de bank steps a-waiting
-fer Aaron to come. Aaron work out on de road yonder in front of Dr.
-S'ratt's house. De heat, it still come up out'n dis granite rock like
-dar was a fire under it somewhars. It feel good to me kaise my blood
-thin and I has on de thinnest clothes dat I's got, today. Sho' did git
-dis hot in slavery, but us never had to tramp 'round on no pavement and
-rock steps like dese. Us tromped on de ground and it take up a lot of
-heat.
-
-"In dem days, Union had trees along dis Main street like dem dat grows
-on de forest now, (Forest Creek). Mister, dey never called dis street
-Main when I was little, dey called it Virgin. It was real narrow and de
-trees recht plumb over de street in de middle 'till de limbs touched
-over your head. Here whar we's setting was de opera house. Right dar
-whar I's a pinting my finger was a stone hitching post, and along dis
-side de street was whar de surreys driv up fer de folks to git out and
-go in de do' to de Opera.
-
-"I don't want to see no picture shows; ain't never seed none of dem
-things afo' dey got to talking. It's de devil hisself and dat's all it
-is. Now dey says dat dey talks in de pictures. Well, dem dat wants to
-can go and pay dere hard earned money to see sech as dat, but Charlie
-ain't gwine narry a step. No, if you is got any money to give me, I take
-it; but I ain't gwine to no picture whar de devil hisself bees in de
-dark. Dat's how come dey has it dark, and dat's what I 'lows to my
-grandchilluns but dey is ig'nant and laughs at me. It ain't no good to
-all sech as dat anyway. I likes to go to picnics and barbecues fer my
-enjoyment. Befo' my legs give out, I cotch fish and killed birds and
-went to log rollings and corn-shuckings. Dem things give you something
-to recall. Dese chilluns comes from de picture show and den dey does not
-have nothing to recall, kaise dey has to go agin de very next Sad'day.
-Tain't no merits to no sech as dey does.
-
-"Slavery, us wore thin home-made clothes and dey sho' was better dan
-what I has now, kaise us made dem on de home looms and spinning wheel,
-and dey was good. Cloth ain't no count, kaise it ain't made good in no
-mills like dat what us made at home in de time of slavery. 'Course I was
-too little to make dem, myself, but it was done at home 'till atter I
-got big enough to card and spin. Ain't never seed no garments as strong
-as dem we wore back dar. Every thing was made out of plaited cotton and
-it lasted fer years and years. Winter time, we wore all wool clothes,
-and when you furs' changed in de fall, how dey did scratch! Make a
-feller feel like he had de itch. Marster had enough sheep to give his
-folks wool, and den some fer all de darkies. I's 'bout ten years old
-when I could card and spin good, and dat was atter de war.
-
-"I live down dar on de Forest (creek) in 'Patterac'. My house ain't fer
-from McBeth School. De mail box in Mr. Charlie Ray's yard, 'bout fo'
-miles from Patterac. I walks fer dat mail, dat ain't fer. Not long ago I
-walked to Union and dat twelve miles. At dat you see I doesn't consider
-fo' miles fer.
-
-"And Marse Johnny Meadow was my Marse when I was five years old. From
-den on, I 'members fer myself and I does not have to take what old folks
-say, but as you knows, from dar back it is as I is heard it.
-
-"Yankee Carpetbagger or something come 'round and 'lowed to our
-overseers dat us have to come to Union Courthouse on a certain day. Us
-went in all de wagons. From de winding stairs, a man say, 'you is free;
-you is free; you is free as your marsters is.' Grandma Julie grab me and
-say, 'Boy, you is free; you is free; clap your hands.' Dat never meant
-much to me and atter us got in de wagon to go home, grandma 'low dat she
-sorry she so free and footloose. Next day us went to work as usual. Some
-strange folks and trashy niggers and po' white folks dat ain't never had
-nothing, would come to see us and tell us to stop work, but dat never
-meant nothing to us. Us all stayed on and gathered de crops.
-
-"Next year maw and her maw went to de Mabry Thomas plantation in Santuc
-to work fer a fourth. My pa stayed at de Meadow plantation. I went wid
-my maw, but I also stayed wid my pa and his ma some. Atter dat, when
-ma's maw died she went back to pa and dey worked fer a fourth; and de
-older boys hired to de big house fer wages. I come up to manhood and I
-been down dar on de Patterac ever since. I live near Charlie Giles, and
-dey done tuck his picture kaise he so old and wise.
-
-"Paw name in full, Griffin George Meadow, and ma's is Alice Brice
-Meadow. She brought from de state of Delaware, and pa was brought from
-de state of Virginny. I's heard both say dat dere parents was brung all
-de way from Africa. Mr. Bonny Trippling fetched both my ma and pa to
-South Carolina atter dey was married. I 'member my grand-daddy, my ma's
-daddy. He was furs' George Brice; then Marse Meadow bought him and he
-was George Meadow.
-
-"My grandpa went to Mississippi on his own expenses atter de Confederate
-War and took his wife wid him. Her name was Mahala; and her two girls,
-Sara and Jane, and two sons, Henry and George, went along. Dey went on a
-little train. It was new here den, and dey say dat it was de first train
-dat ever went through de state of Mississippi. De first train dat I ever
-saw, was de one on de Southern Railroad, from Spartanburg to Union. It
-run to Columbia den, and my first ride was from Santuc to Union. I set
-betwist my daddy's legs on de train and dat de best ride dat I ever had
-and I'll never forget it. It was de fastes' thing dat had ever gone
-through dis country. When it started off, I hollored as I was so scared.
-Atter it got its speed, I thought de woods was leaving me and I held
-tight to my daddy's knees, couldn't hardly get my breath. It didn't take
-any time to get to Union, fact, befo' I got used to it we was at de
-station and my daddy told me dat we had to get off. When we got off I
-could get my breath again, but I felt funny all de rest of de day.
-
-"I has a brother, Luke, dat lives near Lockhart, S.C., and another
-brother, Jimmie, lives in New York. Dat is all dat I has living.
-
-"All de darkies on de plantation lived a good life. De ladies had me to
-pick up trash for de stove and fireplaces in de winter time. Marse Bee
-was Miss Lizzie and Marse John's son. All de time I stayed 'round de
-kitchen and got water and eat from de kitchen and had a good time until
-Marse and Missus died. Dey give me plenty of food, clothes, a good house
-and good clean bed. We made our bed clothes on de home looms wid wool
-from our marster's sheep. De barns was always full and so was de
-smokehouse.
-
-"For our summer clothes we plaited de hanks to make a mixtry of colors.
-De winter clothes was heavy, drab and plain. Our dyes was made from bark
-skinned from de maple trees. Dis was mixed with copperas for a pretty
-yellow. Green dye was bought from a store in Union, and de filling for
-de garments was also store-bought. I carded and spun and wove a many a
-day.
-
-"We slept on straw ticks in summer, made from de wheat, and on feather
-beds in winter. De quilts was warm and made from many pretty home-made
-patterns. Lightwood knots give de only light at night. 'Puff' from flint
-rock give de first sparks. A piece of old iron or hard rock was used to
-strike de sparks wid, don't know why it was called 'puff'. Fire was kept
-in de kitchen hearth all de year as a usual thing.
-
-"De overseer would 'hoop us up every morning, but we didn't work late at
-night. We went to de white folks' church at Harden's Ferry near de old
-Jeter graveyard. Church and ferry gone now. We also went to Sunday
-school. Every two or three afternoons in summer, Marster and Missus call
-us all on de kitchen porch and read de Bible and pray and tell us 'bout
-our Sunday school lesson. In winter we went in de kitchen where I built
-a big fire, to hear de Bible read. We was Methodist. My favorite
-preacher was a big black African named Williams who come to preach in de
-darky church for us every now and den. Dat was Jeter Chapel.
-
-"First time dat I went to a baptizing was to see it at de white folks'
-church, Kelly Chapel. I went wid my ma and pa to see Mr. Cain and some
-Jones baptized. A box-pool had been built in de branch about half a mile
-from de church. De people draped in white was taken to dis pool and
-dipped, although it was a Methodist church. Sheets was hung up for a
-dressing-room. When dey come out of de pool dey dressed in regular
-clothes. It was warm weather and lots of folks had to be baptized and a
-lot of people was dere to see it done.
-
-"Some years later, I went to see some darkies baptized for the first
-time. I had to walk a long ways. I don't go to church much now because
-my legs don't 'low me to walk to church."
-
-Albert Means
-============
-
- | **Interview with Albert Means (91)**
- | **Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-*OLD CUSTOMS*
-
-"Sho' wuz' born in '46, das' whut my white folks says. I calls myself
-97, but dat' don't make no'diffunt, 'bout a few years. I lives near
-Monarch, on whut's still called the Ben Brandon place. Mr. Ben had a
-sister, Mis' Polly. Deys' de aunt and uncle to Mis' Emma Brandon. Mr.
-Ben had two overseers, Mr. Caleb and Mr. Neal Willard, deys' both
-Willards. Yes suh' dey' sho' wuz'. Bofe wuz very kind mens.
-
-"Marse' Ben nebber' 'low' much whippin', and he wuz as good a man as
-anybody has ever seed'. But one day us nigger' boys hopped into a fight.
-Marse' Ben done his own whippin' den'. And dats' de onliest' time dat' I
-is ever knowed' of anybody on all dem' plantations to be whipped.
-
-"Marse Ben had a small house. Didn't nobody live dar' but him and his
-sister. Den' she up and went to Kennedy's on de Meansville road. Dat'
-place wuz' called in Dem' days 'Cedar Grove'. T'ain't much dar' now.
-
-"I'se named Albert, 'case my pa belong to Marse Albert Means. I wuz
-always a field-hand. Marse Ben let me eat from his table after his
-sister went to 'Cedar Grove', kaze' wad'n nobody dar' in the house wid'
-him. 'Cindy' Brandon wuz de woman dat' cooked for us. My mother always
-belonged to de' Brandons, and my pa never 'longed to nobody but Marse
-Albert Means. My Marster' had only one body slave whose name was Keith.
-He was born, lived and died and was buried on the plantation. Marse Ben
-also had a cousin whose name was Marse Keith. When he died he gave all
-his slaves to Marse' Ben, and this is how Keith became my Masters' body
-slave. All Marse Ben had he left to his young neice Miss Emma Brandon,
-and to his cousins Miss Hettie, and Miss Mary Emma Foster.
-
-"On Sunday we get the best things to eat of any day in the week.
-Sometimes we were allowed to go to church with our white folks at old
-Brown's Creek. We sit in the gallery. Dey' don't have none at all now.
-'Cindy' go to church too. When 'Cindy' go to church us never had much to
-eat. All de' slaves is buried in de' Brandon's Graveyard and dere's a
-place fer me beside my first wife. Oh! Lord yes I got my second wife and
-she's a young gal', but she doos' whut I wants her to. My furs' wife
-belonged to Marse Jim Ellis. De' preacher on the Ellis plantation
-married me to Jane Ellis. Dem' wuz good times, 'caze' Marse had us plenty
-to eat, good clothes to wear, and he gave us a new log house to live in.
-
-"Captain Foster got de' two Brandon places. He owned the Will Beaty
-Place and 'Cedar Grove'. He never owned slaves.
-
-"Me and Jane cooked in our fireplace. It had a big crane fer' de' pot to
-hang on. We had a covered skillet to bake in, and a frying skillet. Us
-never cooked on Sunday, but made pones on Saturday. We made our Yeast of
-meal and hop-vine."
-
-Andrew Means
-============
-
- | **Interview with Uncle Andrew Means, age 80**
- | **Route #4; Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-Andrew Means, when approached, held a baby in his arms and moved very
-slowly around in his front yard. He was asked if the babe was his
-grandchild or his great-grandchild, as the old darky had previously
-stated his age as eighty. He replied that it was his own and he pointed
-out another child playing in the yard whom he said was his also. He
-stated, "I'se been married twice. I had fifteen children by my first
-wife, and these two are by my second wife. She is a young woman. But
-I'se sick now, 'cause I had two strokes of paralysis and I can't do
-much".
-
-He remembered some things during slavery times. His mother belonged to
-Dock Murph's father. "I don't recollect his name", he said: "but I was
-born on a plantation down about White Stone on Mr. Murph's place". He
-stated his mother lived in a two-room log house with board floors. "My
-mother and my father separated, and he got killed in Florida. One day my
-father came there to take me with him, but I wouldn't go. I stayed with
-my mammy. She was a hoshand, and used to do washing around the house;
-she did some cooking, too. She used to pick cotton. We raised plenty of
-cotton; made good crops."
-
-He said "I wonder what has become of the wild duck and the wild geese we
-used to have? I used to see them coming over de house, stretched out one
-right behind the other. There was plenty of duck and geese, but you
-don't see 'em now."
-
-When questioned further about slavery times, he said, "I was so little,
-too little to work. I was playing marbles and pitching horse shoes. One
-day I looked up and I seed soldiers running their horses down the road
-in my direction and I got scared. They had on blue hats, or caps, but I
-don't recollect what kind of clothes they had on, but I remember the
-blue caps with a stiff front to it. No, Sir, they didn't do nothing at
-the house. Some of dem asked for something to eat, but when we didn't
-have anything to eat they couldn't get it, so rode on. I was so scared
-and my heart was beating so when I seed 'em coming I just lit out on a
-run." (At this point he laughed heartily to himself.) "I ran so hard and
-was so scared I run over and knocked down two railings on de fence, den
-I crawled under de bed."
-
-When asked how the darkies got married in those days, he said: "They had
-to do the best they could. People didn't get married at that time like
-they do now."
-
-He said he had heard of some of the slaves getting whippings, but he had
-a good master; he never saw a nigger get a whipping. "But I heard of it
-on some places".
-
-He never went to white folks' church when he got big enough to go to
-church, but the first church he went to was a colored church.
-
-"No, Sir, I never seed a ghost, but one night when me and another fellow
-was going 'possum hunting, I saw something, but I don't know what it
-was. De dogs treed a 'possum and laid down at de foot of the tree and
-just barked. Torectly something flew down out of the top of de tree and
-fought de dogs. It just tore them into shoe-strings—their ears and
-sides was all torn to shoe-strings. Some of de dogs didn't get back 'til
-next morning and they was all cut up. When dat thing came out de tree I
-left there. We didn't stay. It looked bigger than a bear. Maybe it was a
-ghost.
-
-"The 'paterollers' didn't give us much trouble as long as we had a
-pass."
-
-He stated he had never heard of Abe Lincoln or Jeff Davis but he
-recollected when Garfield was President.
-
-When he was passed a little change, he said, "Thank you, Sir; come
-again, come to see me again."
-
-Jason Miller
-============
-
- | **Interview with Jason Miller**
- | —*Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-*STORY OF HIS GRANDMOTHER'S PRAYER*
-
-Jason Miller, a dark-colored Negro 77 years old, lives on a farm five
-and a half miles from Eastover, S.C., and claims that he is a grandson
-of Nancy Williams, whose prayer saved a ship at sea.
-
-"My daddy was Thomas Miller and my mammy was Bernice Williams Miller, de
-youngest daughter of Nancy Williams. I was born in Orangeburg County in
-1860, on de farm where we lived at dat time. My mammy die when I was
-'bout turnin' into 16 years old and my daddy never marry no more.
-
-"He owns 'bout 15 acres and de house we lives in and he rent more land
-close to us. We 'most always has plenty to eat and wear, 'cause we works
-de land and keeps it fit to produce food and money crops. When my daddy
-got too old to work much, me and my wife and our two chillun was livin'
-wid him.
-
-"He never turn over de home nor de lands to me while he was livin' and I
-follow right in his tracks. I owns a house and 31 acres and my son and
-his wife and two chillun live wid me. My wife die nigh on to 15 years
-ago, but I is still single and right glad of it. I now owns de farm and
-is still boss dere. I has a reason for not turnin' them over while I
-lives.
-
-"I has seen many cases, where de head of de house turn over all his
-belongin's to de son who move in. In most of dese cases, de head of de
-house become no more pow'ful than a child and often when he give it all
-out, he get sent to de poorhouse, to boot.
-
-"So I still holds de whuphand for keepin' de peace and countin' one,
-besides. Tom does most of de sowin', plowin', and reapin'. I still
-makes a hand, choppin' or pickin' cotton and I digs de 'taters, too. And
-when it come to sellin', why I cracks de whup, 'stead of bein' on de
-beggin' side at home.
-
-"Yes, sah, my daddy was a slave and I was born a slave. My grandmammy,
-Nancy Williams, was set plum free by her Marster Williams at Charleston,
-when she was just a little gal, lak. She still stay wid dis fine
-seagoin' family, and dat's why she was a stewardess on de ship, where
-Marster Williams was de captain.
-
-"De ship was makin' de return trip from Wilmington, N.C. to Charleston,
-S.C. in 1847, when de big storm break on de sea. De biggest story 'bout
-what happen am told by Senator A.P. Butler, who was a passenger. My wife
-tell me, too. She say Senator Butler always look up and speak to my
-grandmammy when he come to Charleston and she say de Senator give
-grandmammy money, widout her askin' for it.
-
-"My grandmammy sho' was known to white and black folks at Charleston and
-Wilmington as a Christian woman. She talk and pray for de seamen at both
-ports and when she livin' in Charleston, too old to serve de ship
-longer, de sailors often come to see her and fetch her presents of
-candy, coffee, flour, sugar, blankets and such as they thought she need.
-When she die, my wife say de sailors carry de coffin to de grave and
-weep.
-
-"As de storm tale come to me from my wife, who git it from her mammy,
-Nancy Williams, it 'bout lak dis: De ship carry folks and produce from
-Charleston to Wilmington and git a load of folks and produce at
-Wilmington, for Charleston. 'Bout 100 miles south of Wilmington a big
-storm rage, lightin' flash and de waves roll mountain high. De ship
-wobble, first on one end and then on de other, a squeakin' awful.
-Pretty soon de fires wetted out and it was out of man control. But it
-still pitchin' pow'ful.
-
-"Knowin' all dis, Marster Williams summon all on deck and tell them de
-ship am doomed. Then he say to them: 'All you standin' side by each, git
-'quainted, so if anybody git to land, they can tell what become of us!'
-
-"It was then dat my grandmammy, de stewardess, step fo'ward and say:
-'Marster Williams, dis am no time to git 'quainted! What we all better
-do is to kneel down and pray.'
-
-"'I can't pray,' say Marster Williams. 'If you can pray, Stewardess, go
-ahead!'
-
-"All de passengers and crew was standin' dere silent and tremblin'.
-Grandmammy fall on her knees and pray: 'Oh, God! We, thy erring chillun
-can do nothin'. You can do ever'thing. Save us, if it be Thy will but
-Thy will be done, not ours! Amen!'
-
-"Then she rise up and smile sweet lak and 'bout dat time de light from a
-rescue ship, sent out from Wilmington to aid us, grandmammy say, shine
-in on us. All was saved. Many, white and black, sho' say grandmammy's
-prayer saved de ship and also say she am de only one who keep cool all
-de time. Senator Butler, who was a passenger, talk wid me once 'bout it.
-Long after he talk wid me, we git a book from Edgefield, in which
-Senator Butler tell de story, praising my grandmammy. We has that book
-at home now and no money could buy it."
-
-Lucinda Miller
-==============
-
- | **Interview with "Aunt" Lucinda Miller**
- | **637 Cummings St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-Calling on an ex-slave who was visiting at a neighbor' house, the writer
-was surprised. She came out of the house briskly and jumped down the
-front steps and came to greet the writer with a smile on her face.
-"Aunt" Lucinda Miller stated she was between 10 and 11 years of age
-"when she was sot free". That would make her about 82 years old now. She
-was born in slavery, her mother being bought by Mat Alexander, who lived
-about five miles from Hill's factory on the Main Tyger River, for $900.
-Her father, who was a Linder, was owned by Bob Alexander, a brother of
-Mat. He lived two or three plantations away. She stated that Bob
-Alexander was known as a good master, but Mat was mean and cruel. She
-has seen her mother "whooped" by the latter either with a buggy or wagon
-trace, a piece of leather or anything her master could get his hands
-upon. She said that she had never seen any slaves in chains, but her
-master would whip the grown slaves, but never the small children. Her
-work was light farm work, and working around the house. She would bring
-water, wash the dishes, help make up the beds and such other work she
-could required in the house. She says her master was a hard driver for
-work to his slaves; that she knew nothing but work. When her master
-thought that a slave was not working hard enough, he would whip him to
-make him work much harder. All he thought of was work—work in cotton,
-corn, peas, wheat, oats or whatever he raised. When asked about the
-games she and the other children played, she replied that she didn't
-have a chance to play, for there was something for her to do all the
-time. She also said that Mat Alexander used to make his slaves work at
-night and on Sundays. When the day's work was over, he would come to
-their one-room log house and lock them up until next morning. He would
-also lock up the well so they could have no drinking water during the
-night. She had plenty to eat, such as it was, but flour was given to
-them once a week, also a little meat, some molasses and corn meal. They
-never had any sugar, and only got coffee when her father would bring it
-to her mother. The white folks and the negroes ate from the same garden.
-The slaves could not have a garden of their own. They also went to the
-same church, but none of the white folks taught the slaves anything
-about reading. She said that she saw "a pair of niggers" get married on
-the plantation by a white preacher. There were no negro preachers.
-Patrollers did not bother any of the four or five slave families on the
-Alexander place, for Mat Alexander was his own patroller. Patrollers
-from one plantation had nothing to do with the negroes from another
-plantation, as they could not even come on the other plantation unless
-they had permission. When going to church, the slaves had to have passes
-to attend church services.
-
-When asked how the Yankee soldiers behaved when they came by the farm,
-she said, "a whole pastle of them came by the house one day. They asked
-the Missus if she had any white bread and some honey." Upon being told
-that she didn't have any of either, they asked for water. Aunt Lucinda
-was told to bring them a bucket. She drew the water from the well and,
-after filling it, she placed it on her head to carry it. The captain of
-the soldiers told her he could not drink the water from the bucket on
-her head, so made her place it on a stand. Then after the captain drank,
-the rest did also. They then came on into the yard and went to the
-stable, took a mule and rode it off, without saying anything. The missus
-had heard what the soldiers would do when they came to a farm, so all
-the valuables had been hidden. The horses were driven way back into the
-woods, the food stuff and clothing was hidden about the place. She said
-her mother was a good weaver and used to make lots of good clothes and
-quilts, but all this was put into a hole and covered up with dirt to
-keep the soldiers from taking it. Aunt Lucinda said the soldiers did not
-tarry there long after looking about for horses and such, and soon left.
-The only thing they got was the mule that was in the stable. When all
-the slaves were told by their master that they were free, they all
-wanted to get away from him, but stayed until the planted crops were
-harvested; then went to another place. Her father took her mother and
-his five children to live with him on another farm where they stayed for
-fourteen years. When they left, the Missus gave them 10 bushels of corn,
-3 gallons of molasses etc. That was all her mother received for staying
-on after emancipation. Aunt Lucinda stated that she was known as Lucinda
-Alexander while a slave; then took her father's name until she was
-married, when she became a Miller. Her father used to hunt rabbits and
-opossums and bring them to his wife, her mother. She said that wild
-turkeys were plentiful, as she had often seen them flying around in the
-woods at the lower edge of the farm. She didn't know how many acres were
-in the farm, but the master worked 6 horses. She remembers that Mat
-Alexander was very mean, and would not get a doctor to a sick slave
-until he dropped in the fields. They had to work even if they were
-sick.
-
-Cureton Milling
-===============
-
- | **Interview with Cureton Milling, 80 years old**
- | **Winnsboro, S.C.**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-"I live about ten miles from dis town on de Jim Turner place; though he
-dead they still calls it de Jim Turner place. My pappy name Jeff, mammy
-name Dolly. Dat a lovely name in dis old mind yit, please God.
-Gran'mammy Peggy another good name I's got to recommen' to you, boss.
-
-"Yes, us all b'longs to de same marster, Levi Bolicks. Guess you'd heard
-tell of dat man. Mistress named Martha, angel of light tied up to de
-prince of darkness, so it was. They had one child, Little Miss, who
-growed up and married a Stevenson.
-
-"I was just a little shrimp durin' slavery time; tote water and ride
-behin' in de buggy to hold marster's hoss when he gits out. My mammy
-live in a one-room house; it had no flo' but de one de Lord create in de
-beginnin', de natural born earth, it was.
-
-"What they give us to eat? Us got plenty, sich as it was. Marster Levi
-kept his niggers fat, just like he keep his hogs and hosses fat, he did.
-He had a passel of slaves and as his plantation was small he just run
-four plows, kept a ridin' hoss and a single buggy, and raise slaves to
-sell.
-
-"He was sellin' de oldest ones away from de younger ones, all time goin'
-along, 'pears to me. Sometime I think he was de very old Nick turned
-loose in de earth for a season.
-
-"How I explainin' dat? It's dis way: He take 'vantage of de young gal
-slaves. 'You go yonder and shell corn in de crib,' he say to one of
-them. He's de marster so she have to go. Then he send de others to work
-some other place, then he go to de crib. He did dis to my very aunt and
-she had a mulatto boy dat took his name and live right in dis town
-after freedom. Marster was doin' dis devilment all de time and gwine to
-Presbyterian Church at Salem every Sunday; dat make it look worse to me.
-
-"Outside dis, and sellin' and partin' mothers and chillun, him was a
-pretty good slave marster. He marry Miss Martha Clark and had nice
-pretty home. He give us good clothes. Shoes? De shoes was made on de
-place; they had wooden bottoms, no spring to them. He gave us one day
-durin' Christmas, for a dance. Us had Doctor Martin to 'tend us. He was
-son-in-law to old Captain Stitt, another bad man that give trouble just
-like my marster.
-
-"What about de Yankees? Two come first, and rode up to de kitchen, rode
-right up to de steps and say: 'Where de silver? Where de gold rings and
-jewelry you got hid for de white folks? Tell us or us'll beat you worse
-than you ever get beat from de lash of de patrollers.' They was as good
-as they words; they gets down and grab us and make us tell all us know.
-
-"Where old marster? He done burnt de wind in his buggy wid de very
-things de Yankees asked for and refugeed somewhere away, sah. Did he go
-to war, my old marster? No sirree! He wasn't dat kind; him hire a
-substitute.
-
-"After de war was over, freedom come, and with it de excitement of white
-folks comin' down here and havin' us believe us just as good as white
-folks. I have lived to see it was all a mistake. Then come de Ku Klux
-and scared some sense into my color. Then come Hampton and de Red
-Shirts. Had they a black shirt I don't believe niggers would ever have
-took to it. 'Dog for bread, nigger for red', they likes dat color.
-
-"In them days of parades by day and torch light processions by night,
-when de niggers was asked to jine, offered a hoss to ride, knowed dere
-would be a drink of red-eye on de way, and then was handed one of them
-red shirts. What you 'spect dat nigger to do? I knowed. He's gwine to
-put on dat red shirt, dat red-eye gwine give him over to de democrats,
-and dis was de way dat Hampton was 'lected. But it never would have done
-to have a black shirt, no sir; I's sure of dat. Dat would have had no
-'peal to our color. They is too black already to suit de most of them.
-
-"When Hampton was 'lected I git an idea of settlin' down. I picks de
-plumpest woman I could find and her had a name dat seem music then to
-me. It was Roxanna. She allow I was a handsome man, and I was fool
-enough then to believe her. But one day she brung home a ten-cent
-lookin' glass from Winnsboro. I say to her when I takes a look in it,
-'Who dis I see in here?' She says 'Dat's you, honey.' I say: 'No, Roxie,
-it can't be me. Looks like one of them apes or monkeys I see in John
-Robinson's circus parade last November.' Dere's been a disapp'intment
-'bout my looks ever since, and when my wife die I never marry again.
-
-"All our boys are dead 'cept Laurens. He live in Charlotte, and I got a
-sister dat marry Ike Austin and live on de Aiken place. I piddles along
-wid de white folks and live in a little house by myself, waitin' for God
-to call me home."
-
-Abbey Mishow
-============
-
- | **Interview with Abbey Mishow**
- | **9 Rose Lane, Charleston, S.C.**
- | —*Jessie A. Butler, Charleston, S.C.*
-
-Among the few ex-slaves still living, irrespective of their age at the
-close of the War Between the States, the line is still very closely
-drawn between house servants and their children, and the field hands.
-Old white-haired Abbey Mishow has "misplaced de paper" telling her age
-but though she claims to have been very small when the war broke out she
-still maintains the dignity of a descendant of a house servant, nor will
-she permit her listeners to forget this fact for an instant.
-
-When the writer called on her, unexpectedly, for an interview, she found
-Abbey, her house, and grandchildren very clean and neat. There was none
-of the musty, stale odor about the place common to Negro dwellings.
-
-"I don't remember much 'bout de plantation," said Abbey, "'cept dat dey
-called it Waterford, and dey planted rice. You see I been jest uh leetle
-gal; I can't lie and say I remember. I been jest 'bout so high." She
-indicated about the size of a five or six year old child. "I ain't had
-no reason for study 'bout um and 'press it on my mind. My mudder died
-w'en I was almost uh baby; she was de tailor and seamstress for our
-people. De missus promise my ma to tek care of me, and she sho' did. I
-was raise just like a pet. De fust crack out of me dat window sash gwine
-to heist to find out what ail me. I hardly miss my ma, no mudder
-couldn't treat me better dan I treat.
-
-"We been b'long to Miss (Mrs.) Reese Ford, what live at Waterford
-plantation, on the Black River," (Georgetown County) Abbey stated. As
-she mentioned the name of the old "missus," and enumerated the names of
-her erstwhile owners, Miss Sarah, Miss Clara, Miss Henney, Mr. Willie
-and Mr. Reesey, Abbey's old, wrinkled, black face softened with memories
-and her voice became gentle as she told of the care and kindness she had
-received.
-
-"I don't know nothing 'bout de war", she continued. "I was purtected,
-and tek to de city. I didn't hab nothing to bodder my mind and mek me
-remember dose days. Mr. Willie lose he arm in de war. I is see de
-soldiers but I been tek care of. I been spoiled and didn't hab no
-interest in worryment.
-
-"I don't know nothing about de street on de plantation, and what dey do
-dere, 'cause I ain't had no 'casion for go dere. I raise in de yard, I
-didn't wear de kind ob clothes de field-hand chillen wear, and I get my
-dinner from de kitchen. I don't know nothing 'bout crops 'cause we
-summered." (The family spent the summers at Plantersville, a resort
-frequented by the planters of the day) "You see I been leetle, dey
-didn't 'low me out de yard, I jest tek notes 'round sometimes. I tell
-you I bin spoiled, I raise onderneat' Miss Clara dem (and them). I
-nebber had no idea t'ings would ebber be like dis. I ain't got no man,
-and no boy, nor no kinnery to help me, nor to do nothing for me, only
-one weak daughter and she ain't much good. All de nation dead, t'ain't
-nobody left but me.
-
-"Is I ebber see a ghost? No ma'am, I is hear 'bout dem but I nebber see
-um. I ain't had 'casion to go out in de night time. I hear Plat-Eye dere
-but only dem what has to trabble round see um. I believe in my Jesus,
-yes ma'am, if it ain't been for Him how I lib?"
-
-Sam Mitchell
-============
-
- | **Interview with Sam Mitchell, age 87**
- | —*Mrs. Chlotilde R. Martin, Beaufort County*
-
-"W'en war come, I been minding cow for my master. My father been Moses
-Mitchell and my mother been Tyra Mitchell. We belong to John Chaplin and
-lib on Woodlawn plantation on Ladies Island. Mr. Chaplin had seven
-plantation. He lib at Brickyaa'd plantation in winter and in Beaufort in
-summer. He hab many slave, but I don't know how many. As near as I can
-remember, dey been fifteen slave on Woodlawn plantation.
-
-"De slave lib on de Street, each cabin had two room. De Master don't gib
-you nutting for yo' house—you hab to git dat de best way you can. In
-our house was bed, table and bench to sit on. My father mek dem. My
-mother had fourteen chillen—us sleep on floor.
-
-"Eb'ry Chuesday, de Master gib each slave a peck ob corn. W'en potato
-dug, we git potato. Two time in de year we git six yaa'd ob cloth,
-calico in spring and homespun in de winter. Once a year we git shoe. De
-slave had 'bout two task ob land to cultivate for se'f in w'at call
-Nigger field. Could raise one pig.
-
-"All my mother chillen dead 'cept me and one sister Rhina, who lib wid
-me. She 80 year old.
-
-"My father hab a boat and he gone fishing at night and sell fish. Master
-let him cut post and wood at night and sell, too. He had to do dis work
-at night 'cause in daytime he have to do his task. He was carpenter, but
-w'en dey was no carpentry work to do on de plantation, he plow. My
-mudder hoe. Little boy and old man mind cow. Little girl and old 'ooman
-mind baby.
-
-"On Woodlawn dey was no overseer. We had nigger driver. Maussa didn't
-'low mucher whipping, but slave had to do task. If didn't, den he git
-whipping. Driver do whipping, but if he whip too sewerely, Maussa would
-sometime tek field hand and mek him driver and put driver in field.
-
-"If a slave was sick, Maussa would come and see w'at was de matter.
-Sometimes he would give de slave jollip to mek him womit (vomit),
-sometimes if he had fever, he would gib him hippo. If he was sick, the
-Master would tek him to Beaufort to de doctor. If a 'ooman slave sick,
-Big Missis would go and see dem.
-
-"Slave had only one holiday in de year. Dat Christmas day. Maussa would
-kill a cow on every plantation on Christmas and gib all de slave some.
-
-"On Maussa John Chaplin plantation slave have to tell him soon as dey
-begin to co't. If Maussa say 'No, you can't marry dat gal', den dat
-settle it, you can't marry um. He don't lak his slave to marry slave on
-nodder puson plantation, but if you do den you hab pass to wisit yo'
-wife. W'en slave marry, w'ite preacher marry um in de Maussa house, but
-Maussa don't gib you anyt'ing.
-
-"Slave had dey own chu'ch on plantation wid nigger preacher, but on
-'munion Sunday, you had to go to w'ite folks chu'ch in Beaufort and sit
-up stair.
-
-"Dey wasn't no jailhouse on de plantation, but dey was a barn w'ere
-sometimes Maussa put slave w'en dey been bad. I never saw any slaves
-sold, but I hear tell of de banjo table.
-
-"W'en slave die, Maussa let me berry um in de daytime, 'do some Maussa
-mek dem wait 'till night time. Nigger preacher preach funeral.
-
-"I staa't for mind cow w'en I been nine year old. W'en I been twelve, I
-have for staa't wuk in field or cutting maash (marsh) or splitting rail.
-Slave chillen play mud-pie, mek house out ob sand and secher t'ing.
-
-"Slave on Maussa plantation could come to Beaufort on Sattidy night, but
-dey have to be back by 9 o'clock or patrol would get um.
-
-"Maussa had nine chillen, six boy been in Rebel army. Dat Wednesday in
-November w'en gun fust shoot to Bay Pint (Point) I t'ought it been
-t'under rolling, but dey ain't no cloud. My mother say, 'son, dat ain't
-no t'under, dat Yankee come to gib you Freedom.' I been so glad, I jump
-up and down and run. My father been splitting rail and Maussa come from
-Beaufort in de carriage and tear by him yelling for de driver. He told
-de driver to git his eight-oar boat name Tarrify and carry him to
-Charleston. My father he run to his house and tell my mother w'at Maussa
-say. My mother say, 'You ain't gonna row no boat to Charleston, you go
-out dat back door and keep a-going. So my father he did so and w'en dey
-git 'nuf nigger to row boat and Maussa and his family go right away to
-Charleston.
-
-"After Freedom come everybody do as he please. De Yankee open school for
-nigger and teacher lib in Maussa house to Brickyaa'd. My father git job
-as carpenter wid Yankee and buy ten acre ob land on Ladies Island.
-
-"I been married two time. My last wife, Florence, living right here in
-Beaufort, but she left me long time ago. I hab two chillen, one daughter
-live to Philadelphy and de odder lib on Ladies Island. I got four
-grand-chillen, all ob dem grown.
-
-"Did I ebber hear ob Abraham Lincoln? I got his history right here in my
-house. He was de president of de United States that freed four million
-slave. He come to Beaufort befo' de war and et dinner to Col. Paul
-Hamilton house at de Oaks. He left his gold-headed walking cane dere and
-ain't nobody know de president of de United States been to Beaufort
-'till he write back and tell um to look behind de door and send um his
-gold-headed walking cane.
-
-"Jefferson Davis? He been de Democrack president.
-
-"Booker T. Washington? He wasn't no president, but he was a great man. I
-hear him speak once in de cemetery in Beaufort.
-
-"What do I t'ink ob slavery? I t'ink slavery is jest a murdering of de
-people. I t'ink Freedom been a great gift. I lak my Maussa and I guess
-he was as good to his slave as he could be, but I ruther (rather) be
-free."
-
-Charity Moore
-=============
-
- | **Interview with Charity Moore, 75 years**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-One quarter of a mile north of Woodward station and one hundred yards
-east of US #21, is the beautiful residence of Mr. T.W. Brice. In the
-back yard is a two-room frame house. In this house lives Charity Moore
-and another aged Negro woman, said to be an octogenarian. They occupy
-the house together and exist on the goodness and charity of Mr. Brice.
-Charity was born a slave of Mr. Brice's father and has lived all her
-days in his immediate family.
-
-"Don't you 'member my pa, Isaiah Moore? Course you does! He was de Uncle
-Remus of all de white chillun 'round dese parts. He sho' was! I seen him
-a settin' wid you, Marse Johnnie, Marse Boyce, and Dickie Brice, in de
-back yard many a time. You all was askin' him questions 'bout de tale he
-was a tellin' and him shakin' his sides a laughin'. He telled all them
-tales 'bout de fox and de rabbit, de squirrel, brer tarrapin, and sich
-lak, long befo' they come out in a book. He sho' did!
-
-"My ma name Nancy, dat was pa's wedded wife. Dere was no bigamous nor
-concubine business goin' on wid us. My brothers was Dave, Solomon,
-Fortune, Charlie, and Brice. My sisters was Haley, Fannie, Sarah,
-Frances, Mary, and Margaret. Hold your writin' dere a minute. Dere was
-thirteen. O yes, I left out Teeta. Dat rounds them up, a baker's dozen,
-Marse Thomas use to 'low.
-
-"White folks, my pa had Bible tales he never told de white chillun. Did
-you know dat my pa know de catechism from cover to cover, and from de
-back end to de startin' end? Concord Church gived him a Bible for
-answering every question in the catechism. Here 'tis. (Producing
-catechism published and dated 1840). My pa maybe never telled you any
-Bible tales he told de colored chillun. He 'low dat de fust man, Adam,
-was a black man. Eve was ginger cake color, wid long black hair down to
-her ankles. Dat Adam had just one worriment in de garden and dat was his
-kinky hair. Eve hate to see him sad, 'cause her love her husband as all
-wives ought to do, if they don't.
-
-"Well, Adam play wid Eve's hair; run his fingers through it and sigh.
-Eve couldn't do dat wid his kinky hair. De debbil set up in de plum
-bushes and took notice of de trouble goin' on. Every day Eve's hair
-growed longer and longer. Adam git sadder and sadder. De debbil in de
-plum bushes git gladder and gladder. Dere come a day dat Adam 'scused
-hisself from promenadin' in 'mong de flower beds wid his arms 'round
-Eve, a holding up her hair. De debbil took de shape of a serpent, glided
-after Eve, and stole up and twisted hisself up into dat hair far enough
-to whisper in one of them pretty ears: 'Somebody's got something for to
-tell you, dat will make Adam glad and like hisself agin! Keep your ears
-open all day long.' Then de serpent distangled hisself, drapped to de
-ground, and skeedaddled to de red apple tree, close by de fountain. He
-knowed dat Eve was gwine dere to bathe. He beat her dere, 'cause she was
-walkin' sorta slow, grievin' 'bout Adam and thinkin' 'bout how to cheer
-him up. When she got dere, de old debbil done changed from a snake to a
-angel of light, a male angel, I reckon. He took off his silk beaver hat,
-flourished his gold headed cane, and 'low: 'Good mornin'! Lovely day!
-What a beautiful apple, just in your reach too, ahem'! Eve say: 'I's not
-been introduced,' 'Well', said de debbil, 'My subjects call me Prince,
-'cause I's de Prince of light. My given name is Lucifer. I's at your
-service, dear lady.' Eve 'flected: 'A prince, he'll be a king some day.'
-Then de debbil say: 'Of course, one of your beauty will one day be a
-queen. I seen a sadness on your lovely face as you come 'long. What
-might be your worry?' Eve told him and he 'low: 'Just git Adam to eat
-one bite out dat apple 'bove your head and in a night his hair will grow
-as long, be as black, and as straight as your'n.' She 'low: 'Us ain't
-'lowed to eat of de fruit of de tree in de midst of de garden. Us dare
-not tech it, lest us die.' Then Satan stepped a distance dis way, then
-another way and come back and say: 'Gracious lady! Dis tree not in de
-midst of de garden. De one in de midst is dat crabapple tree over
-yonder. Of course de good Lord didn't want you to eat crabapples.' De
-debbil done got her all mixed up. De apple looked so good, she reached
-up, and quick as you can say 'Jack Robinson,' she bite de apple and run
-to Adam wid de rest of it and say: 'Husband eat quick and your hair will
-be as long, as black, and straight as mine, in de mornin'.' While he was
-eatin' it, and takin' de last swallow of de apple, he was 'minded of de
-disobedience and choked twice. Ever since then, a man have a 'Adam's
-Apple' to 'mind him of de sin of disobedience. Twasn't long befo' de
-Lord come alookin' for them. Adam got so scared his face turned white,
-right then, and next mornin' he was a white man wid long hair but worse
-off than when he was a nigger. Dere was more to dat tale but I
-disremember it now.
-
-"I's livin' wid my young marster, Thomas, now. He took good care of my
-pa, when he got so old and feeble he couldn't work no more. God'll bless
-Marse Tommie for all his goodness. When Pa Isaiah come to die, Marse
-Tommie come every day. One day in leavin', he said in his gruff, kind
-way: 'Is dere anything I can do for you Uncle Isaiah?' Pa say: 'Take
-care of Charity.' 'I will,' say Marse Tommie. Then he 'low: 'Ain't dere
-something else?' 'Yes,' pa 'low, 'I want a white stone over de head of
-my grave.' 'What must I put on de stone,' asked Marse Tommie? 'Just my
-name and age,' said pa. 'Oh yes, dere ought to be something else,' says
-Marse Tommie. Pa shook his head. 'I want something else on it Uncle
-Isaiah,' said Marse Tommie. Wid a tear and a smile, pa raised his white
-head and said: 'You can put down, below de name and age, just dis: 'As
-good as ever fluttered.' And dat stone at Concord Cemetery 'tract more
-'tention then any stone and epitaph in dat churchyard. Why, de white
-folks puts flowers on it sometimes.
-
-"I wonder sometime in de winter nights, as de north wind blows 'bout de
-cracks in de house, if pa is warm and in Abraham's bosom. But I knows
-pa; he's 'umble. There's so many white folks in dat bosom he'll just be
-content to lie in Isaac's bosom or maybe de prophet Isaiah's, for who he
-was named.
-
-"Wait dere! You have bad luck to leave by dat door. You comed in by dis
-door and you just leave by de same door. Some folks say nothin' to dat
-but I don't want you to risk dat. Glad you come. Good bye."
-
-Sena Moore
-==========
-
- | **Interview with Sena Moore, 83 years old**
- | —*W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C.*
-
-Sena Moore lives alone, in a one-room frame house about five miles
-northeast of Winnsboro, S.C. She does seasonal work, such as hoeing and
-picking cotton, of which she is still fully capable. She pays $2.00 per
-month rent, for the house and vegetable garden spot.
-
-"Sumpin' tell me to make haste and come here for to see you. How's you
-dis mornin'? Mustn't forgit my manners, though I's wantin' to tell you
-de ifs and hows and de ups and downs of dese many years dat I's been in
-dis land of sorrow and tribulation.
-
-"I was born in 1854, on de Gladney plantation. Was a pretty smart gal,
-twelve years old, when de Yankees come through. Marse Riley have a Bible
-out yonder at Jackson Creek dat show's I's eighty-three years old. His
-aunty is a sister to my old marster, Jim Gladney. Miss Margaret married
-a Paul but Miss Nancy and Miss Mary Ann, them two never marry, bless
-God! De house out dere in Jackson Creek neighborhood.
-
-"My pappy was George Stitt. My mammy was Phillis Gladney. My pappy was a
-slave of de Stitt family; had to git a pass to come to see mammy. He
-slipped in and out 'nough of times to have four chillun. Then de Stitts
-took a notion to sell him to Arkansas. My mammy weep 'bout dat but what
-could her do? Just nothin'. Old marster 'low: 'Plenty more good fish in
-de sea, Phillis. Look 'round, set your cap, and maybe you'll 'tract one
-dat'll give your heart comfort, bye and bye'. My full brudders was
-Luther Stitt, Bill Stitt, and Levi Stitt. My mammy then take up wid a no
-'count nigger name Bill James and had one child, a boy, name Jim. He
-died long time ago.
-
-"Us live in a log house wid a dirt floor and de cracks stop up wid mud.
-It had a wooden chimney. De beds was saplin' pole beds. De ticks was
-wheat straw, though most of de time us chillun sleep on de floor. My
-marster not a big buckra; he just had a handful of slaves. Us had to
-fight chinches, fleas, and skeeters (mosquitoes) 'most all night or 'til
-they fill theyselves wid our blood. Then they take a rest and us git a
-rest and slept. My grandpappy was one of de free niggers. Him was a
-Stitt family nigger, a blue-eyed nigger.
-
-"Money? Lord help me, no! As I 'member, us had plenty to eat, sich as
-peas, beans, greens, lye hominy, and 'lasses but no flour bread.
-
-"My young marster, Sam, was kilt in de war but Marse Tom went off and
-settle in Arkansas.
-
-"What clothes us have? Just 'nough to hide our secret parts in summer. A
-shirt for de boys and a slip-over for de gals. They was made out of
-weave cloth, dat us spin of de cotton dat us picked out of de field. Wid
-all de drawbacks, us was happy more then than now.
-
-"Us raise our own chickens and sing while us workin'. I never mind white
-chillun callin' me 'nigger'. Dat was a nickname they call me.
-
-"Us was Presbyterians and b'long to de Jackson Creek Church, Lebanon.
-Gallery was all 'round de up-stairs. Got a whippin' for goin' to sleep
-up dere, one Sunday, and snorin'. In them days de preacher was powerful.
-De folks mighty 'ticular when him come 'round and fill de back of his
-buggy wid sumpin' of everything on de place, lak ham, chickens, eggs,
-butter, marmalade, jelly, 'lasses, sugar, vegetables and fruit. Him put
-in full time on Sunday though, preach 'bout two hours befo' he put on de
-benediction.
-
-"What 'bout my courtin' days? Well, I had them, too. A Yankee want me to
-go off wid him but I tell him no! Then when I 'fuse him, him 'suade
-another gal to love him and leave wid him. Her come back to de place
-six months later and had a baby by dat scamp man.
-
-"When I was fifteen, I marry Bill Moore. Stood up wid him, dat day, in a
-blue worsted dress and a red balmoral over a white tuck petticoat, and
-under dat, a soft pique chemise wid no sleeves. Had on white stockin's
-and low quarter shoes. I had sweet shrubs all through my hair and it
-held them all night and de nex' night, too. Sill make a big laugh 'bout
-it, while nosin' in my hair and smellin' them sweet shrubs.
-
-"Dr. Turner was de doctor dat 'tended de Gladney's and de slaves on de
-place.
-
-"How us git fire? Us git two flint rocks, hold lint cotton under them,
-strike a spark, it drop down, set de cotton afire and then us fan it to
-a blaze.
-
-"Yes sir, I see many good white men, more than I got fingers and toes,
-but a low down white man can git low downer than a nigger man. A good
-white lady telled me one time, dat a bad white woman is a sight worser
-and more low downer than a bad nigger woman can ever git to be in dis
-world. Now what you gonna day to dat, Mister? Well, if you have dat
-notion too, us won't argue 'bout it.
-
-"Does I believe de Savior has a remedy for de laks of sich women? Let me
-think 'bout dat a little bit. De Savior has a cure for things, all
-things. How come he ain't? Didn't he give a woman de livin' water at de
-well and make her white as snow? Then he run seven devils out another
-woman, for just sich sins as us is talkin' 'bout, Mister!
-
-"Ku Klux? Does I 'member them? Dis left knee 'members them! One night de
-big road full of us niggers was comin' from church. Just as us git to de
-top of de hill us see, comin' up de hill, a long line of hosses, wid
-riders dressed in pure white, hoods on deir heads, and painted false
-faces. They busted into a gallop for us. I was wid my brudders, Luther
-and Bill; they jump de side gully and got 'way in de woods. I jump but
-de jump was poor as a cow, I reckon, and dis very leg crumple up. I lay
-dere in my misery 'til daylight, and my brudder, Luther, come back and
-carry me home. Dat word 'home' 'minds me I ought to be goin' dere now.
-De Lord take a lakin' to you, and you to me! May you git to heaven when
-you die and I git dat pension befo' I die. Amen!"
-
-Silas Nelson
-============
-
- | **Interview with Silas Nelson (74)**
- | **R#2 Trenton, S.C., c/o Mr. Walter Marsh**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Fer 69 years Mis' Marsh done had me a-workin fer her roun the garden en
-house. Course Mr. Marsh had ter work me in de field wid my boys. Us has
-two mules, Joe an Delia. Dey stays in our lot. I plows a little but my
-time is a wearin'. But I gits long 'Oh Key'.
-
-"Mr. George W. Wire tuk and died. I nursed him. I good to them all. I'se
-different from any other mens. I never eats milk and butter. Ain't tuck
-no medicine in thirty-five year. When sun set I is at my house every
-day.
-
-"Lays down only 'bout two hours, dats nother way I is allus curious in
-de fac' dat at nights I allus has somethin ter do. De boys jes sits and
-looks at me and dey don't say nary a word, dey jes looks at me.
-
-"Born in slavy, too little to tell much 'bout dat, cep I is different
-from my chilluns. Dey calls me curious. My pa riz up four boys. Us had
-four mules and hauled dirt to Graniteville evey day when us stayed
-together. Three brothers older than me. I is allus been crazy 'bout
-farmin, helped my paw evey day when I was young with everything.
-
-"When I wuz young no man could turn me down a workin. Now it ain't none
-that ken turn me down a 'walkin".
-
-Susan Nelson
-============
-
- | **Interview with Susan Nelson**
- | **9 Trapman Street, Charleston, S.C.**
- | **Mrs. Arthur Lynah**
- | **Ashley Avenue, Charleston, S.C.**
- | —*Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C.*
-
-"FOREST", A FAITHFUL SERVANT
-
-Susan Nelson, 9 Trapman street, about eighty years old, daughter of
-Paris ("Forest") and Christina Gibbs, is a fine type of trained house
-servant. Tall, slim, and erect, she carries herself with dignity, and
-curtsies with grace. Her color is dark brown, her features aquiline. She
-seldom smiles.
-
-"I am the youngest of my family and they are all dead. I never had a
-child. I was married in the Methodist Church, but my husband married
-again. From the first I can remember, I lived in Charleston with my
-mother and father. He had his freedom before the war and worked on the
-Bay. When he came home from his days work he had a cot by the door where
-he would lay down to rest, and all the time he used to tell me about
-'those happy days', as he said. Ask Mrs. Arthur Lynah about my father;
-she knows about him."
-
-Susan goes on with her story:—
-
-"My father belonged to Judge Prioleau and was trained to wait on the
-table from the time he was a boy; and this is how he nearly got a
-whippin'—his master liked 'Hoppin John' and there was some cold on the
-table—you know 'Hoppin John'? His master told him to 'heat it'; he
-thought his master said 'eat it', so he took it out and sat down and eat
-it. When he went back his master asked him where was the 'Hoppin John'?
-Paris say he eat it. His master was mad—after waitin' all that
-time—and say he should have a whippin'. But Mistress say 'Oh, no, he is
-young and didn't understand'; so he never got the whippin'.
-
-"Later he was taken from waitin' on table to be his master's
-body-servant and that was when his name was changed. One of the young
-ladies, his master's daughter, was named Alice, and when he called
-'Paris', it sounded like 'Alice', so his master named him 'Forest' and
-he kept the name from that time, for his first and his last name, and he
-always went by the name of Forest until he died."
-
-He went abroad with Judge Pricleau as his body-servant, and traveled in
-Europe. (Authority—Mrs. Arthur Lynah)
-
-"In later years, when his master was paralyzed, Forest was his
-attendant; and when his master died, Forest watched by him all night. He
-lay down under the couch—they used to lay them on couches then—and he
-slept there and wouldn't leave him, and stayed there all night; and his
-mistress came in the early morning and kissed his master, and she said
-'you here, Forest' and he answered, 'yes, mistress.' After that,
-everything was changed. His mistress wanted to give him his freedom, but
-the rest of the family didn't agree to that, so he went to Savannah with
-'Mas Charles'. But though he was treated well he was so homesick that he
-couldn't stay. He thought of his mistress and of the old home, and of
-his mother, and he ran away and came back to the Plantation. Mas Charles
-was so mad when he came after him that he was ready to whip him; but
-when he saw how happy they were he agreed to give Forest his freedom."
-
-Before the War Between the States Forest was married, living in
-Charleston, and working on the Bay. Susan remembers her terror when the
-shells of the Federal bombardment were bursting over the city, and
-recalls holding out her arms for someone to hold her. Her father had
-returned home one afternoon and was resting from a hard days work, when
-a shell crashed through the walls of their little home on Tradd street,
-and passed immediately over him as he lay on his cot. The neighbors came
-rushing in thinking that everybody had been killed, but the shell had
-passed through, shattering the house but leaving Forest unharmed. He
-lived to the age of ninety-seven, valued and respected; his daughter
-carries on his good reputation, and is known by the name of SUSAN
-"FOREST."
-
-William Oliver
-==============
-
- | **Interview given by Uncle William Oliver, a boy in slavery time**
- | **Murrells Inlet, S.C.**
- | —*Genevieve W. Chandler, Murrells Inlet, Georgetown County, S.C.*
-
-"Underground Railway? They give it that name being they had this way to
-transfer the slaves. T.O. Jones was one of the officers. Growed up in
-Illinois.
-
-"I was born in Horry—eight miles this side of Conway. The old Oliver
-place. Father Caesar Oliver; Mother Janie. Mother born near Little
-River—Jewitt place. Joe Jewitt raise my father. Had four brother,
-twelve sister:
-
- | One Trizvan
- | Two Sarah
- | Three Martha
- | Four William
- | Five Mary, the fifth
- | Six Lizzie, the sixth
- | Seven Emma, the seven
- | Eighth Alice, the eighth
- | Nine Joanna
- | Ten Havilla
- | Eleven Ella
- | Twelve Redonia
- | Thirteen Caesar
- | Fourteen Zackie
- | Fifteen Eddie
- | Sixteen (He could not remember)
-
-"Three boys so scattered about you can't tell anything about them. All
-chimney, clay. All chimneys that day, clay. Moved right away soon as
-Freedom came. Women done cooking and washing same as now. Shuck
-mattress. My mother was a weaver. Old timey loom. Cotton and wool.
-Sheckel (Shuttle?)
-
-"I remember one song my mother sang:
-
- | Do, Lord, remember me!
- | Remember me when the year go round!
- | Do, Lord, remember me!
- | Why can't you die
- | Like Jesus died?
- | He laid in His grave!
- | He crippled some.
- | Some He saved.
-
-"I can't get it all.
-
-"My father head man on the plantation. Indigo? Cut the bush down. Put it
-in sacks. Let it drip out. Call that indigo mud. Raise cattle and hogs
-loose over the County. No cash money was give to slave. Had to get a
-ticket. Hire they self out as stevedore—anywhere they could—and pay
-Massa so much for the time. Smart slave do that. Oh, yes, my father do
-that. If they keep themselves alive after freedom, they doing well.
-
-"Schooling? Only by night. And that couldn't be known. When he could
-get any body to teach him 'ABC' but wasn't allowed to go to any
-school.
-
-"We'd eat peas, rice, cornbread, rye bread, sweetbread. Most molasses.
-Game was all over the woods. Everybody could hunt everybody land those
-days. Hunting was free. When I come along had to work too hard to hunt.
-Could get pike out the lakes. Go fishing Sabbath. That was day off.
-Sunday free day. Wild turkey. 'Possum. Don't bother with no coon much.
-'Possum and squirrel all we could get. Had our garden. Different bean and
-collard. Turnip.
-
-"Clothes? Regular wool and cotton. Maple dye and indigo. Red, blue,
-gray. Lot of gray. Big slave owners had a shoemaker. Plenty of hides.
-Cow hides, deer hides.
-
-"When I married, was working turpentine. Rent timber and cut boxes.
-
-"The cruelest treatment I know of in the United States and all the other
-states was done in the Southwestern states. Take New Orleans. Galveston?
-Was fixing to get to Texas. Texas beat the country for cruelty. They
-tell me when your Master and Missus in this country want to make you do
-your task, they threaten to sell you to Texas. Had a regular 'Vanger
-Range' in New Orleans. Place they keep the slaves and auction them off.
-Man by the name of Perry Ann Marshall. He was sold out there. He told my
-father he'd be out in the field in the morning—hoe in hand. Had to get
-out there 'fore it was light, hoe in hand. Boss man there with whip.
-When light enough to hoe, give order, 'Heads up!' Then lots of women
-fell dead over the hoe. Give order. 'Heads up!' you chop! Breakfast
-bring to you in the field. Set right there by you hoe and eat till he
-say, 'Heads up!' When women fell dead, lie right there till night where
-the body drop—till you knock off. That's Texas! I call Texas 'Hell.'
-Even today black man can't get no first class ticket Texas!
-
-"When you come right down to the truth, we always got up fore day most
-of time. You could go visiting other plantation, but must have you a
-ticket. Patrol catch you they whip you."
-
-Albert Oxner
-============
-
- | **Interview with Albert Oxner (75)**
- | **Newberry, S.C. RFD**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I was raised in Newberry County, S.C. on de place of Mr. Chesley Davis,
-near Indian Creek. I now live in a rented house in 'Helena'. My
-grandmother come from Virginia. Old man Tom Davis who lived near Indian
-Creek was a grandson of Chesley Davis. My daddy was Oxner, his first
-name was Wash. My mother was named Sidney Davis. My first wife was Polly
-Miller and de second was Mary Mangum.
-
-"Marse would whip his niggers, but he wasn't a hard man. I peeped around
-de house once when I was a little boy and saw him whipping a slave.
-
-"We got our vegetables from de white folks garden. We never had any of
-our own. We had plenty home-raised meats and flour. We made our own
-clothes at home by carding, spinning and weaving. We dyed dem by making
-dyes from de barks of trees or red clay.
-
-"Marse had a big plantation, and 75 to 100 slaves. My mother was de
-house-maid. She never learned to read and write, and none of us did,
-either.
-
-"We use to hunt rabbits, 'possums, wild turkeys and squirrels, and we
-went fishing, too. We never had to work on Saturday afternoons or
-Sundays unless we had to take fodder or straw to de barn to keep it from
-getting wet.
-
-"Corn-shuckings and log-rollings was common in dem days. De workers had
-supper when dey got through. Niggers went to white folks' churches and
-set in de back or in de gallery. A few years atter de war, de niggers
-made brush arbors to use for preaching.
-
-"Old man Chesley Davis and two of his boys sho liked to drink liquor.
-His baby boy was bad to drink. We had barbecues in dem days and nearly
-every man would get drunk.
-
-"Later on, old man Davis tried to preach. He preached some at de Baptist
-church at Bush River, and at Fairview Baptist church, about four miles
-above where he lived.
-
-"I don't remember much about de Ku Klux. I never saw any of dem. I
-remember a little about de Red Shirts. I don't remember anything about
-slaves getting forty acres of land and a mule when freedom come. Since
-de war, de niggers have worked on farms and done odd jobs in
-town."
-
-Ann Palmer
-==========
-
- | **Interview with Ann Palmer (90)**
- | **120 N. Church St., Union, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"De cows lowed fer days befo' Will Abrams died. Dey got wusser and
-wusser jes' right 'mediately befo' he died. De owls, dey had been
-hollering in dis here holler down behind Miss Belle's house fer mo' dan
-a month. One day Miss Belle, she 'lowed she ain't never heard so many
-screech owls befo' dis in her life. I had done fetched her one of my
-collards. We was a-talking out on de back porch.
-
-"I took and told her 'bout how Will had done got his finger infected
-fooling wid dem dead folks. Miss Belle, she say dat ain't got nothing to
-do wid Will being sick. She also 'lowed dat dat wasn't any reason fer
-dem owls a-screeching and gwine on so. Den I told her, I says, 'Miss
-Belle, ain't you heard de cows, how dey lows at night here recently?
-Yes'm, all dese is death signs; it ain't gwine be long neither befo' we
-hears 'bout somebody a-dying in dese here parts.' Miss Belle, she look
-at me sort of furious like, but she never say nothing dat time.
-
-"Dat night de beastes was a-taking on so dat I had to hold my pulse.
-Fust (first), real tight like dis; den I presses harder and harder till
-I jes' natchelly squeeze all de blood out of my wristes. Dat is one of
-de best signs I knows fer making dem owls and cows git quiet. Yes sir,
-you has to hold your pulse fer five whole minutes, tight. When you does
-dis, de owl's voice, he git lower and lower as your pulse git weaker and
-weaker. Look, honey chile, all dese other niggers, dey had been a-tying
-up a sheet or a-putting de shovel in de fire, and a-turning over de
-nasty old shoes; but de owls, dey kept right on a-screeching. But dis
-old darky, she de one what know'd how to weaken 'em down by holding her
-pulse. Now, I doesn't tell dese young niggers 'round here; neither does
-I tell many white folks 'bout de wisdom I is learn't 'bout such things.
-
-"Will Abrams, he been ailing fer I [TR: disremembers] how many weeks. He
-couldn't eat nothing but beans. I had beans in my bottom corn.
-Catherine, she axed me fer some and I give 'em to her. Will, he eat 'em,
-fer dat was his craving. His finger got wusser till it nearly driv him
-crazy. Den he got down and took to de bed. Look like his time, it was
-drawing nigh.
-
-"White folks, de Jedgement is a-coming. We's all got to face it. De
-folks is wicked, both black and so is de white. How dey 'spects de good
-Lawd to have mercy on de wicked and sinful souls de way dey does every
-day is mo' dan aunt Ann can see, and I is already done lived my ninety
-years. De Lawd, He still sees fit to bless me wid health; and de good
-white folks, He 'lows dem to help me.
-
-"How could Dr. Dawkins or either Dr. Montgomery do Will any good when de
-Lawd, He done sot de hour? Dr. Montgomery, he 'lowed to Catherine dat
-Will had two chances to die and one to live. He also said dat he had
-done his best. All de darkies and white folks, too, in Union, dey come
-over here to see Will. Lots of 'em fetched 'em some things along to give
-to Will. He was a good man 'cause he had done been born again, and he
-followed 'de straight and narrow path'. Dat's de reason dey liked him,
-'cause his deeds, dey up and spoke fer him. Well, so many folks was
-a-gwine in dat room dat Dr. Montgomery, he say Catherine have to keep
-dem out. Will, he kept a-gitting weaker and weaker. De ailing in his
-finger had done spread all over his chest. Dr. Montgomery and Dr.
-Dawkins, dey held a consulation. When dey come out dey told Catherine
-and dem others dat Will had done took and got pneumonia from dat finger.
-So dat night, even de dogs, dey took to howling and gwine on. 'Tain't no
-use to set dar and laugh when de owls screeched and de cows lowed and de
-dogs howled. It sho am de death sign.
-
-"Hard work, trouble, and a-fooling wid dem dead folks, dem de things
-what make Will go away so easy. He was always a-running 'round a-gitting
-sorry niggers out of scrapes, and a-making 'greements wid de white folks
-fer 'em; and dey never thanked him half de time. Us old folks, us told
-him to stop fooling wid dem dead niggers and all such as de like, 'cause
-he gwine to kill his-self. I is most blind, but de darkies, dey told me
-how Will fooled 'round a-doing things fer so many sorry folks.
-
-"But den, God plucks his flowers. De night of de eighth day dem doctors
-had done 'lowed dat Will had pneumonia. Will look up at his wife and
-say, 'Git dese folks out of here so I can die by myself'.
-
-"It was 'leven o'clock in de morning when dey come and told me. Susie
-Eubanks, she 'lowed dat de screeching of de owls wake her up dat morning
-'bout 3 o'clock. I 'lowed dat a dog a-howling was what riz me up.
-Catherine 'lowed dat she hadn't laid down no time till she heard Gus's
-cow a-lowing. All de signs took and failed den, as dey will do on such
-occasions."
-
-George Patterson
-================
-
- | **I**
- | **Interview with George Patterson**
- | **653 Peachtree St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-While seeking an interview with an ex-slave today, the writer was
-directed to a certain house where an old man lived. Entering the
-premises by the rear, he observed an old man helping a woman who was
-washing some clothes. He was stepping around quite lively, carrying
-water and emptying one pot after another of the dirty water already used
-by the woman. After he had sufficient water for his wife's needs, he
-asked the writer to go with him to the front porch where he could be
-quiet and talk.
-
-He stated that he was large enough during the Civil War to wait on the
-soldiers when they would come to his master's home for something to eat,
-which was at Kilgore's Bridge on Enoree River, said that his job during
-the slavery days was to wait on the white folks and watch the
-plantation.
-
-He also stated that his father was a full-blooded Indian who was sold to
-his master by Joe Crews, the biggest slave trader in the country. His
-father was stolen somewhere in Mississippi, along with other Indians,
-and sold into slavery with the "niggers." He said his father told him he
-was stolen by Joe Crews when he was a young buck. At that time, his
-father went by the name of "Pink Crews," but after he was purchased by
-Mr. Joe Patterson, his name became "Pink Patterson." He stated that his
-mother was a white woman who came from Ireland and was working on the
-Patterson farm. She was not a slave, but was married to his father by
-his "Marster."
-
-They lived in a one-story, one-room log cabin which had a dirt floor.
-The whole family of 18 children and parents lived in this small house.
-They were comfortable, however, and all had good health. He stated that
-he had not been sick for fifty years, and that the only trouble with him
-now was a broken foot, the result of a railroad wreck about forty years
-ago. He said his foot still gave him trouble in bad weather.
-
-He said that he had not been conjured at all, but had just gotten his
-foot broken. "Conjuring and ghosts are all foolishness anyhow." The
-nearest he ever come to seeing a ghost was one night when he observed a
-"white thing moving back and forth across the branch." He had with him
-his brother's cap and ball pistol, and he shot at the object two or
-three times, knowing that his dogs would come to him if they heard the
-shots. Two or three dogs came up and recognized him. He told one bull
-dog to go to the white thing and see what it was. After the dog had been
-all around the place where the thing was moving, he knew there was
-nothing there to frighten him. Next morning, he went out to see the
-object and found it to be a small tree with white leaves waving in the
-breeze.
-
-Going back to slavery times, he said that on most plantations were kept
-squirrel dogs, 'possum dogs, snake dogs, rabbit dogs and "nigger" dogs.
-Each dog was trained for a certain kind of tracking. He used to train
-the "nigger" dogs which were used to track slaves who had run away from
-the plantation. He said he had two dogs that were sure never to lose the
-scent when they had taken it up. "If I put them on your track here and
-you went to Greenville, they would track you right to Greenville."
-
-He said his master did not allow his slaves to be whipped but he had
-seen slaves on other plantations wearing chains to keep them from
-running away.
-
-"People don't work like they used to, and this thing of higher education
-is ruining niggers. All their learning teaches them is how to beat a man
-out of a dollar and how to get out of work. It teaches them to cus, and
-it teaches these young girls how to make easy money. As old as I am,
-I've been approached by girls I didn't know and asked for a dollar. Now
-that thing won't do. I believe in teaching children how to read and
-write; but don't go any further than that. I've never seen a moving
-picture. Once a man offered to give me a ticket to a movie, but I told
-him to give me a plug of tobacco instead." When asked if he thought
-colored preachers should be educated, he replied that when they are
-educated they learn how to steal everything a man has, if they can.
-
-"You remember reading about Joe Crews and Jim Young—what they did in
-this state? Well, they tried to lead all the niggers after the war was
-over. I was the one who got Jim Young away from the whites. I carried
-him to Greenville, but he got back somehow, and was killed. Joe Crews
-was killed, too. The Ku Klux was after them hot, but I carried Jim Young
-away from them. You know, the Yankees was after getting all the gold and
-money in the South. After the war, some Yankee soldiers would come along
-and sell anybody, niggers or whites, a gun. They were trying to get on
-to where the white people kept their money. If they caught on, they
-would go there and steal it. You know, there wasn't any banks, so people
-had to keep their money and gold in somebody's safe on some big man's
-place. These men in selling guns was trying to find out where the money
-was hid."
-
-When asked about hunting, he said that hunting in slavery days was not
-like it is now, for a man could hunt on his own place then and get
-plenty of game. There were plenty of wild hogs in those days, as well as
-wild turkeys, rabbits and squirrels. Some of the hogs were so wild that
-no one dared to go into a pack of them, for they had tusks six inches
-long, and could tear a man to pieces. A man could shoot a wild hog and
-have no trouble over it. Cattle, he said, ran wild and were dangerous at
-all times.
-
-"When you buy something now, you haven't got much. I bought a cake of
-soap for my wife but it was a small thing. When we used to make our own
-soap on the plantation, we had plenty of good soap."
-
-He said his father followed his master and others to the war, and he
-drove artillery wagons at times. At Appomattox, his father told him that
-he drove wagons over dead soldiers piled in ditches. His father lived to
-be 111 years old. After he and his father were set free, they remained
-with Mr. Joe Patterson to help him make that year's crops; then they
-moved to another place.
-
-He heard that work was plentiful in Spartanburg, and he moved here and
-did various kinds of work. He said that he was not as strong as he used
-to be, but that he could still do a full day's work except when his foot
-troubled him.
-
-Uncle George was quite polite and seemed glad to talk of old times. He
-observed, though, that in old times people would speak to him. "You go
-up to a crowd now, and they won't speak. They won't notice you."
-
- | **II**
- | **Interview with George Patterson**
- | **653 Peachtree St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-George Patterson, ex-slave, says that during the Civil War and
-afterwards, when the owners of plantations in the Enoree River section
-had a surplus of peaches and apples, they made apple and peach brandy;
-and after they had filled kegs with it, rolled the kegs into a pond to
-keep them from leaking until they were either sold or taken out for
-personal use. Corn and rye whiskey were also stored in the water to keep
-the kegs from leaking. In those days, he stated, good whiskey sold for
-40 cents a gallon. Butter sold for five cents a pound; eggs six cents a
-dozen, and hens that now cost 75 cents a piece, sold for ten cents. But
-stated George, salt was very dear and hard to get; a barrel costing as
-much as $50.
-
-George also stated there were plenty of wild turkeys, ducks and wild
-geese on the Enoree River. The turkeys would ravage a garden or scratch
-up the planted seed on the plantation. He has often been sent out to
-frighten the wild turkeys away from the crops. He said plenty of meat
-could be secured by shooting the wild hogs that roamed the woods, that
-anybody was at liberty to kill a hog. Of course, some once tame hogs
-mingled with the droves of wild hogs but the tame hogs had the owner's
-name on them; so one had to be very careful that he did not shoot a
-marked hog. He said that when his father, an Indian, was stolen by Joe
-Crews, from the woods of Mississippi, he marched them with niggers he
-had also stolen, or traded for, into different sections of the country,
-selling them as slaves and speculating on them. He drove them just like
-cattle and would stop at various plantations and sell the Indians and
-niggers into slavery.
-
-Sallie Paul
-===========
-
- | **I**
- | **Interview with Sallie Paul, 79 years**
- | **Marion, S.C., Fairlee Street**
- | —*Annie Ruth Davis*
-
-"I remember we colored people belong to de white folks in slavery time.
-Remember when de war was gwine on 'cause we hear de guns shoot en we
-chillun jump up en holler. Yes, mam, I remember dat. Remember de 30th of
-dis October, I was 79 years old.
-
-"No, mam, I ain' got no kin people. You see I been born in North
-Carolina. Government lady get Lindy Henderson to stay here en look out
-for me 'cause it be like dis, I can' see out my eyes one speck. Can' tell
-de night from de day. Don' discover daylight no time, child. We rents
-dis here house from Miss (Mrs.) Wheeler en Lindy treats me mighty good."
-
-(Lindy: "Well, we gets along nicely. I done feed her up en she get back
-in bed, it be so cold en ain' got no coal to heat her. Yes, mam, has to
-wait on de Salvation of de Lord. Government gives us a little small
-salary, but we has to live mighty small, mighty small. Honey, it takes a
-right sharp to live on dese days. If dey wasn' helpin me, I just don'
-know, be as I ain' much dese days. Got dis high blood so worser en den I
-has such a achin in my joints en throat dat does worry me right smart
-too.")
-
-"My white folks, dey was de Williamsons dere in North Carolina. Yes,
-mam, dey was good to dey colored people. We lived right in dey yard or
-dat what you may say in de yard. All de colored people lived dere side
-de yard whe' dey be close enough to holler if anything get de matter.
-You see, I wasn' big enough to do no work much den only as we chillun
-tote up wood for de white folks en piddle 'bout de yard. I know I won'
-big enough to do nothin but jump up en keep fuss gwine all round de yard
-dere. I remembers dey used to get a handful of switches en stand us
-chillun up in a long row en give us all a lick 'bout de legs. You see,
-dey didn' work de chillun when dey was little bit of things en stunt dem
-up. Chillun grow to be 'bout 12 or 13 years old fore dey work dem in dat
-day en time.
-
-"My white folks was well off peoples, honey. My Massa, he run three
-plantations en he had a heap of colored peoples dere. You see, people
-didn' run over de ground in dat day en time like dey do now. De men lift
-up every piece de dirt in de ground en get all de roots out it. My
-mother, she was one of de plow hands dere en when time come to lay off
-de ground, she force to work out. Dat de reason we chillun be up in de
-yard twixt meals. Den when breakfast en supper come, we eat to we house.
-Live close enough to de white folks house dat de nigger chillun could go
-to de house en get dey hominy en clabber 'tween meals. Oh, dey have dese
-here long wooden trays set up somewhe' under de tree dere in de yard dat
-dey would full up wid hominy en clabber for we chillun. Give some spoon
-en dem others never had none. Dat it, all eat out de same tray right
-side together. Yes, mam, when I was raise up, have plenty to eat en
-chillun never fail to get it."
-
-(Lindy: "Oh, child, we was bred en born in a fat kitchen in dat day en
-time. We was well taken care of. People say I don' look like it 'cause I
-here gwine 'bout wid stick in my hand. Sho was raise up in a fat
-kitchen. Yes, mam, I was raise to do all de cookin en de nursin for de
-white folks. Ain' never see no kitchen yet dat dey could lost me in
-'cause I was trained myself. Never had no chance to go to school no time.
-You see, if it wasn' cookin, it was chillun. 'Bout time new baby come,
-dat first baby be knee child en so on like dat. Well, let me hush now,
-honey, en let Sallie tell you dat what in her mind. She de one what you
-come to get speech from.")
-
-"Yes, mam, de people ate like dey eats now, but dey didn' never know
-what a stove was in dem days. Some of de kitchen fireplace, you could
-put a whole railin in it to hang de pots on. Den dey had dem big old
-clay chimneys wid dirt ovens dat would hold a bushel of tatoes to a
-time. Just was a brick chimney now en den in slavery time. Bake all de
-cakes en de bread right dere on de fireplace. Child, dere sho been more
-to eat in slavery time den dere be now en I know dat all right. Dere
-been more sheep en hogs en cows en goats. No, mam, I don' think I like
-goat. I don' think so. I recollects I tried to eat some goat one time en
-it swell in my mouth. Know I wouldn' eat sheep neither. It a sin. Seem
-like dey so humble.
-
-"White folks didn' give de niggers no money no time, but dey had money
-in slavery time much so as dey does now. You see, all de white folks
-wasn' equal. Some was poor en de colored people sell dem things dey
-white folks never want. Oh, dey take anything you carry dem.
-
-"I don' know nothin 'bout de Yankees only I see dem come through dere de
-day we was freed, but won' no great heap of dem come. Coase dey was
-passin through dat country all durin de war en come to de colored
-people's house en get somethin to eat. Yes, mam, colored people feed dem
-en give dem somethin to travel on. It just like dis, de Yankees would
-give de colored people dey good clothes en take dey rags. You see, dey
-was desertin. Was runnin away en gettin back home. I don' know whe' if
-de white folks know 'bout dey dere or not, but I know one thing, Massa
-didn' see dem.
-
-"Yankees didn' do no harm nowhe' in dat country to nobody, white nor
-colored. Never hear tell of dat, but white people was scared of de
-Yankees as dey was of a rattlesnake. Yankees tell de colored people dey
-was free as dey was, but just didn' know it. I know dey said dat 'cause I
-was standin up listenin to dem just like any other child be standin dere
-lookin up in your mouth. Den when de colored people was freed, heap of
-de white folks died 'cause dey grieve demselves to death over de loss of
-dey property. Sho know dat 'cause I see dem en hear tell 'bout it plenty
-times.
-
-"Dere been plenty white folks dat wouldn' never fight against de Yankees
-widout dey couldn' get out of it. Dey slip off en hide in pits dey dig
-in de woods en in de bays. Some of dem say dey didn' have no slaves en
-dey won' gwine fight. Dat de way it be, if dey didn' fight, dey had to
-run away en stay in de woods. Dat point me to think 'bout how young
-Massa would slip off wid de colored boys on a Sunday to play like white
-people will do en would learn dem to read. Carry old Webster's Blue Back
-wid dem en when dey been way off yonder, young Massa would learn dem to
-read. My father could read, but he couldn' never write.
-
-"Yes, mam, white folks get handful of switches en whip de nigger chillun
-round de legs, but wouldn' never whip none of de grown 'omans 'cause dey
-was breedin. Didn' kill niggers whe' I was born."
-
-(Lindy; "My Lord, child, reckon dey would 'bout beat me to death if I
-been livin den 'cause I done had two husbands en ain' never bear no child
-yet. Doctor tell me if I want a child, I would have to go to de hospital
-en be operated on en I wouldn' never get my mind fixed to do dat. Honey,
-I lies down in dat bed dere at night en thanks my God dat I ain' never
-had dat operation. I know I been bless 'cause dis de time of Revelations
-de people livin in. Don' want no child my God gwine hold me responsible
-for at de Jedgment. Sho bless 'cause like I see de world gwine, people
-ain' got no time to be gettin ready to meet dey God. Tell my God dat I
-thank he a thousand times again dat I been make like I is. It a blessin,
-honey, a blessin.")
-
-"Yes, mam, de white folks make dey own cloth right dere on de plantation
-in dem days. Dey had a loom house, but my mother had a loom right to her
-own door. Sometimes, she would weave piece for de white folks en den
-she weave for herself. White folks find all de colored people's clothes
-en see to have all dey weavin done in dat day en time. Dey had certain
-one of de colored people to do all de common weavin, but dey couldn' do
-dem three en four treadle till dey Missus learn dem how. My old Missus
-could weave any kind of cloth or blankets or anything like dat.
-
-"Oh, de white folks be right dere to look after dey colored people if
-dey get sick. Coase dey gwine take care of dey niggers. Gwine save dem
-just as long as dey got breath in dey body. Won' no niggers gwine suffer
-if dey need doctor neither. Heap of dem was cared for more better in
-slavery time den dey is now 'cause dey had somebody dat had to care for
-dem or lose dem one. Ain' no white folks want to lose dey niggers.
-
-"No, God! no, God! I hear talk 'bout it, but I don' know whe' dey can do
-it or not. If dey can conjure, dey keep it to demselves. Dey never tell
-me. I hear tell of dem things call ghosts, but I ain' never see none of
-dem en ain' never see no hant neither. I has see a spirit though.
-Peoples dat been dead, dey appears fore you en vanishes. Seen dem all
-right. Dem things call ghosts en things, I don' wanna see none 'cause I
-don' know 'bout dem. Hear talk of dem, but ain' seen nothin like dat.
-
-"Well, it like I tellin you, everybody didn' hate dey white folks. Dat
-how-come some niggers stayed right on dere wid dey white people after
-freedom en farmed for half what dey made on de crop. You see, dey didn'
-have nothin to work wid so dey stayed on dere en farmed on shares.
-
-"I couldn' exactly tell you which de better times dese days or in
-slavery time. I know heap of de colored people fared better when dey
-belonged to de white folks 'cause dey had good owners. Didn' have to
-worry 'bout huntin dey clothes en somethin to eat in dat day en time.
-Just had to work. Now dey have to hunt it en get it together de best way
-dey can. Oh, honey, peoples has so much worraytions dese days. Dat
-how-come dey ain' live a long time like dey used to."
-
- | **II**
- | **Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79**
- | **Marion, S.C.**
- | —*Annie Ruth Davis*
-
-"No, mam, I ain' able to see none tall no time. Dis here one of my eye
-is weaken from dat other one. Cose I can tell de day from night, but say
-see somethin, I couldn' never do dat.
-
-"Well, I don' know nothin more to speak 'bout den dat I been tell you
-dem other times you come here. It just like I tell you, we nigger
-chillun would look to de white folks yard in de day, but we stayed to us
-house in de quarter on a night. Oh, we lived close enough to de white
-folks yard to know dere was cookin gwine on in de Missus kitchen. No,
-child, we never eat us meals to de white folks house. You see, all de
-niggers on de plantation would draw rations den just like heap of dese
-people 'bout here draw rations dese days. I mean dey would draw so much
-of ration from dey Massa to last dem a week at a time just like de
-people draw government ration right 'bout here now. Dere was sho a
-plenty to eat in dat day en time, too, 'cause I know whe' I come up, I
-was raise on a plenty. Dere was abundance of meat en bread en milk all
-de time. Yes, mam, cows won' lackin no time whe' I was raise. I remember
-dey would give us chillun all de milk en hominy us could eat twixt
-meals. Always fed de nigger chillun to de white folks yard twixt meals.
-You see, dey was mighty particular 'bout how dey would raise en feed de
-little niggers in dem days. Been more particular den you would be
-particular wid a ten dollar bill dis day en time. Would keep dey little
-belly stuff wid plenty hominy en milk same as dey was pigs. Dey do dat
-to make dem hurry en grow 'cause dey would want to hurry en increase dey
-property. De white folks never didn' despise to see a big crop of nigger
-chillun comin on. Hear tell dat some of de white folks would be mean to
-dey colored people, but never did see nothin of dat kind 'bout my white
-folks' plantation. Cose de colored people would be let loose to get
-together on a night en when Sunday come. Dat all de time dey ever had to
-visit 'cause dey been force to work from sunup on de hill till sundown
-over de swamp.
-
-"Oh, de colored people had plenty song in slavery time, but I ain'
-studyin nothin 'bout dat now. My 'membrance short dese days, child. Yes,
-mam, de colored people had so many song in slavery time, I can' remember
-de first word. Dey would sing anything dey could make a noise wid. Some
-of dem could read out de hymn book en some of dem couldn' tell one word
-from de other. Yes, mam, some of de young Massa would steal off to de
-woods wid dey colored mate on a Sunday evenin' en learn dem to read. No,
-Lord, dere won' no schools nowhe' for de colored people in dem days.
-White folks catch nigger wid a book, nigger sho know he gwine get a
-whippin soon as dat tale let loose. Now en den dey young Massa would
-learn dem, but dey wouldn' never let dey fore-mammy know 'bout it. Cose
-dey couldn' never write, but some of dem could read. Massa en Missus
-never know 'bout it though.
-
-"Now, it de Lord truth, honey, I ain' want to mislead you noway. Wouldn'
-do dat for nothin. Don' lay no mind to heap of dis talk I hear some
-people speak 'bout. I gwine talk 'bout what I been touch wid. Some of de
-colored people fared good en some of dem fared bad in slavery time. Some
-of dem had good owners en some of dem had bad ones. Thank de Lord, I
-didn' get much of it 'cause I won' but nine years old when freedom come.
-(Whe' de lady? Gone?). (The old woman is totally blind and remains in
-bed all the time). Some of de white folks had dese here overseers en dey
-was rough owners. Thank God, I was little en dey never didn' whip me
-exceptin little bit 'bout de legs dere in old Massa yard. Remember dey
-cut we chillun round de legs wid a switch sometimes when dey would want
-to punish us en learn us better sense. Honey, us had a good old Massa.
-Won' no cuttin en slashin gwine on round us like dere was on dem other
-plantations round dere. My blessed a mercy, lady, some of dem grown
-niggers mighty as well been dead in dat day en time, de overseers been
-so mean. De little chillun wouldn' never be force to work like dey is
-now. Dey would just be playin 'bout dere in old Massa yard en totin wood
-for dey Missus. Wouldn' have to work in slavery time 'cause dey had
-somebody to feed dem. Dat de difference, dey have to work for what dey
-get dis day en time en ain' be satisfied wid it neither.
-
-"Well, I don' know nothin 'bout dem cornshuckin dey used to have only as
-dey would gather de crop in dem days en haul it up to de white folks big
-old farm barn. Den dey would ax all de white folks 'bout dere to send
-dey hands dere to shuck corn one night. En pray, dey would have such a
-whoopin en a hollerin en de like of a big supper dere dat night. My
-blessed Lord, dat was a big time for we chillun. One man would have corn
-shuck to his barn one night en dey would all help shuck corn to another
-man barn de next night. You see, people was more mindful to bless one
-another in dat day den dey be dese days. Yes, mam, neighbor been please
-to turn good hand to neighbor den.
-
-"Oh, dere ain' been no end to fine victuals in dat day en time. You know
-dere was a plenty to eat in slavery time 'cause de people made somethin
-to eat den, but ain' nothin now hardly. Child, dis a tight time we gwine
-through dese days. I remember dey used to have plenty 'tatoes en bread
-en fresh meat every day en have heap of sheep en cows en goats all 'bout
-de woods den, but dere ain' nothin growin in de woods dese days. Now, if
-a man got a hog, he got it by de tail in de pen. No, mam, de most of de
-people ain' got nothin now en dey ain' got nothin to buy somethin wid
-neither.
-
-"I don' know, child. I settin here in dis bed day in en day out wid dese
-old bare eye en I don' know how de people gwine. I don' study nothin
-'bout dem. I know I don' care how or which a way dey gwine 'cause I
-studyin 'bout most all my days behind me now. Plenty people ain' livin
-good as dey used to live long time ago. Seems like de times is tighter
-en worser den what dey used to be. Reckon de reason be dere was more
-made to eat den. Pa always tell we chillun dat it a sign de times gettin
-better when dere more made to eat, child."
-
- | **III**
- | **Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79**
- | **Marion, S.C.**
- | —*Annie Ruth Davis*
-
-"I ain' tryin to remember nothin 'bout my mammy when she was a girl. I
-know I hear dem speak 'bout old Massa bought her en my grandmammy from
-off de block en raised dem to a good livin. Hear talk dat some of de
-colored people 'bout dere would catch old Harry in slavery time, but
-dere won' nothin snatchin noways 'bout my white folks. I mean some of de
-colored people would catch de devil in dat day en time 'cause dey come up
-under a rough boss. Just had half enough to eat en had to stir 'bout
-half naked most all de time. Not been took care of as dey should have
-been.
-
-"Cose when we was chillun, de grown people would be force to punish us
-some of de time. Yes, mam, I do know what would happen to me, if I been
-get in devilment. I would get a whippin right den en dere. Nobody
-wouldn' never whip me, but old Massa en my mammy 'cause people won' no
-more allowed to whip anybody child den dey is dese days. My child done
-anything wrong den, you had to come to me 'bout it. I recollects, dey
-would whip us chillun wid tree switches round us legs. Den if dey would
-want to spare de punishment, dey would try to scare us out de mischief.
-Tell us Bloody Bones would jump out dat corner at us, if we never do
-what dey say do.
-
-"Oh, I here to tell you, dey had de finest kind of enjoyments in dem
-days. It was sho a time, to speak 'bout, when dey had one of dem
-quiltings on de plantation. Didn' do nothin but quilt quilts en dance en
-play some sort of somethin after dey would get done. Colored people
-would have quiltings to one of dey own house, up in de quarter, heap of
-de nights en dey would frolic en play en dance dere till late up in de
-night. Would enjoy demselves better den de peoples do dese days 'cause
-when dey would get together den, dey would be glad to get together. Oh,
-my Lord, dey would dance en carry on all kind of fuss. Yes, mam, blow
-quills en knock bones together dat would make good a music as anybody
-would want to dance by. Child, dey had plenty scraps to make dey bed
-clothes wid, 'cause dey Missus would save scraps for dem.
-
-"Yes, mam, de white folks would furnish de colored people wid clothes
-for true in dat day en time. Dey couldn' let dem go naked. How dey gwine
-work wid bare back? Cose dey fine clothes, dey managed to get dat
-demselves. You see, white folks wouldn' give dem no Sunday frock, but
-one. I tell you, de cloth was better wearin' den. Dis here cloth dese
-days, wear it two or three times, de wind could 'bout blow through it.
-Oh, dey had de finest kind of silk in slavery time. Don' hear no silk
-rattlin' 'bout here dese days, but would hear silk rattle in slavery
-time just as same as would hear paper rattlin'. Colored people wore just
-as much silk in dem days as dey do now 'cause when dey had a silk dress
-den, it been a silk dress. Won' no half cotton en half silk. Goods was
-sho better den, child, I say. Like I tell you, when a man had a
-broadcloth suit den, it won' no half jeanes. All de colored people, dat
-been stay on my white folks plantation, had dey own little crop of corn
-en fodder 'bout dey house en when a peddler come along, dey would sell
-dey crop en buy silk from de peddler. Dey been sell dey crop to anybody
-dey could. Dere was always a poor one somewhe' dat been need corn en
-fodder.
-
-"No, mam, colored people didn' have no church of dey own in slavery time
-'cause dey went to de white folks church. All I can tell you, we went to
-buckra's church en dey set in one part de church en us set in de
-gallery. Yes, mam, de white folks would see to it dat all dey niggers
-never chance to miss church service no time. En de slave owners would
-bury dey plantation niggers right dere to de colored people graveyard
-behind de church, dat was settin right side de white people graveyard.
-
-"I won' married till long time after freedom come here en when I get
-married, de colored people had dese here bresh (brush) shelters for dey
-church en dey had dey own colored preacher, too. Honey, I marry a Paul,
-a slavery one, but I didn' have no big weddin. Didn' want none. Just
-married dere to my father's house en I had a white dress dat was made
-out of cotton, all I can tell. Know it won' no silk. I don' know nothin
-more den dat to tell you. Dat de mighty truth, all I know, I had me a
-husband en dat won' no great blessin, to speak 'bout.
-
-"Don' ax me, child. Ax somebody dat know somethin 'bout dem things
-people say is a charm. I say, dey is ignorant people what believe in
-dem. I know I ain' never wear nothin round my foot 'cause I ain' got no
-dime to spend, much less to be puttin it round my foot. I calls dat
-nothin but a foolish person dat would do dat, ain' you say so? I see a
-woman once wear a twenty-five cents piece tie round her ankle en I ax
-her what she do dat for. She tell me she had de rheumatism en she hear
-dat would cure it. I tell her I ain' had no mind to have no faith in all
-dat what I hear people speak 'bout. Dat won' nothin but a devil been
-talkin to dat woman, I say.
-
-"My God a mercy, I tell you, slavery time was somethin. Dat been a day.
-Colored people didn' have no privileges den only as dey Massa would let
-dem loose on a Saturday evenin' en on a Sunday. But, child, dey was just
-as proud of dat as people is proud of a month dese days. Didn' have no
-more privileges in slavery time den dese people got now in dis here
-chain gang. No, mam, niggers belong to dey owner in slavery just like
-you got a puppy belong to you. Make dem go so far en den stop.
-
-"What I think 'bout Abraham Lincoln? I ain' took time to have no
-thoughts 'bout him. Hear so much talk 'bout him till I don' know what he
-done. Hear talk dat he been de one dat free de slaves, but whe' de
-power? De power been behind de throne, I say. God set de slaves free. De
-Lord do it. Abraham Lincoln couldn' do no more den what God give de
-power to do. It just like dis, I believes it was intended from God for
-de slaves to be free en Abraham Lincoln was just de one what present de
-speech. It was revealed to him en God was de one dat stepped in en fight
-de battle."
-
-Lina Anne Pendergrass
-=====================
-
- | **Interview with Lina Anne Pendergrass**
- | **Union, S.C., Rt. 1**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"I'se born 10 years befo' Freedom on a Christmas day. Marse Tom Sanders,
-whose place I'se born on, lived in Chester County. One of my first
-'memberances is a dream. I though' I saw my little sister, Sars, laying
-on a cooling board. I was five years old at dat time. I woke my mother
-up and tole her 'bout it, but it was jus' a dream an' wasn't nothin' to
-it.
-
-"I never had no schooling and the Ku Klux sho scairt me. They took my
-daddy; my brother was too young. It was on Sat'day night. Next day was
-Sunday, and dey didn't fix de doors what de Ku Klux broke down. Us
-nebber did see pa no mo'.
-
-"As it was in de day of Noah, so shall it be in de coming of de days of
-Jesus Christ. Peoples fitting and a-killin' and a-scrappin' all de time
-now, kaize dey don't take no time to go to prayer meeting. My
-grandfather had a prayer-meeting house. All de niggers on de plantation
-went to it ever Sat'day night. Dey sot on benches, and den dey would git
-down on dere knees and pray. I was a little gal, and me and de other
-gals would fetch water for dem to drink. Us toted pine when it was cole,
-and us'd take coals 'round fer de ole folks to light dere pipes wid.
-Atter while, dey git to singin' and shoutin'. Den de Spirit done come
-down and tuck hole of dem. Dat would be when everybody would get happy.
-De ole rafters creak and shake as de Spirit of de Lord sink deeper and
-deeper in de hearts of the prayin' folks. Tate Sanders, de preacher
-from Lowryville, would come in 'bout dat time and raise his hands 'bove
-de congregation and plead wid de Lawd to open de hearts of de wicked so
-dat de Holy Spirit could come in. Wasn't no killin' and scratchin' going
-on in dem days. De ole folks tell us chillun dat if we do wrong, de Lawd
-gwine come down in His wrath and punish us on dis earth. Sides dat, He
-gwine send us to torment whar we's live in 'ternal hell fire. De worl'
-is so wicked now dat I'se looking fer de locust to come and stay five
-months and sting everybody in de fo'head dat ain't got religion. Den
-people will be so 'shame of deself fer dere wickedness dat dey will seek
-death, and dey won't be able to get no death.
-
-"De Lawd, He is a-pressin' me on up. Yes, Lawd, Revelation is wonderful.
-De comin' out of smoke, dem's de devil's angels. When you reads de Word
-of de Lawd, take an interes' in it. De people dat I knows is so wicked
-dat my heart keeps anguished.
-
-"I learnt myself how to read. My pa brought a Bible from de war. I has
-dat and I reads it. My pa got shot comin' from Mississippi. Marse
-Sanders hear about it and he sont and brung him home. Den us lived 15
-miles from Chester on Broad River. My pappy was named Henry Dorsey. When
-he was young, he was Marse Sander's butler boy. He got well from de
-shot. Den de Ku Klux got him for something. I ain't never knowed what. I
-don't know what dey done when I was a baby.
-
-"I'se nussed since I was a little gal. My ma made me make teas to cure
-folks' colds and ailments. She made me fetch her water and towels and
-other things while she wait on de sick folks. Dat's de way I was broke
-into nussing. Nineteen-eighteen laid out folks at Monarch. I started
-right after breakfas' wid two dollars. Git home at night with narry a
-penny. Git folks soup and milk. Everybody dat didn't get sick worked
-hard. De folks died anyway like flies. De Lawd give me strength to stand
-up through de whole time. When de flu pass on and de folks get well, den
-dey pay me for my services.
-
-"Millie Nash, Andy's wife, she look atter me since I'se got ole. She
-gooder to me dan anybody I know, but at de same time, she's aggravation
-to me kaise she drink likker. Millie sho does git drunk, but I keeps on
-prayin' fer her. Dis mawnin she's gwine to a funeral. She was poling
-'long 'hind me and drapped her pocketbook. When us git ready to go into
-de church, she stopped and grabbed hol' of me and say, 'Lina, whar my
-pocketbook?' I looks at her and say, 'Nigger, how does I know whar'bouts
-you throw dat thing down? You stayed 'hind me all de way from de ice
-house. Didn't I tell you to let dat dram alone befo' you left de house?'
-I sot down in front of de church and Millie turned around and went down
-de street toward de ice house. She seed her pocketbook where she drapped
-it, 'bout half way twixt de ice house and de church. When she come 'long
-whar I was sitting, I 'lowed to her dat I'se gwine up to de relief
-office. I lef' her and here I is. Won't be long befo' Millie be here,
-too. De funeral done marched on when Millie got back to de
-church."
-
-Amy Perry
-=========
-
- | **Interview with Amy Perry (82)**
- | —*Jessie A. Butler, Charleston, S.C.*
-
-Amy (Chavis) Perry is eighty-two years old. She is strong for her age
-and lives alone in an old building at the rear of 21 Pitt street where
-she supports herself by taking in washing. She is a self-respecting old
-negress, with a reputation for honesty among the "white folks" whom she
-considers her friends.
-
-Amy has two names, "like de people in doze times"—Amy Rebecca. She
-"adopted the Rebecca." Her father was John Minser Chavis, a slave in the
-McClure family, who, she claims, lived to be 116 years old, and "who
-wukked up to de las'," and Sarah (Thompson) Chavis, who belonged to Mrs.
-William Keller, an ancestor of the Cogswell family of Charleston. Amy
-says she was given to Miss Julia Cogswell as a "daily gift," Miss Julia
-having been a child at the same time that she was. In reply to a few
-leading questions Amy gave the following story.
-
-"We is live in de country, near Orangeburg, and I remembers berry little
-'bout de war and de time befo' de war. You see I bin berry little, I bin
-only seben year old. Some ole people mek out like dey remembers a lot ob
-t'ings." Here she gave the writer a quizzical look. "You know
-imagination is a great t'ing. Dey eider mek all dat up or dey tell you
-what bin tell dem. I got to stick to de trut', I 'members berry little,
-berry little. I don't 'member much 'bout what we did in de country befo'
-de war, nor what we eat, nor no games and such. I don't know what de big
-people wear. De cullered people mek dey own cloth, and call um cotton
-osnaburg. Dey mek banyans for de chillen. Sleebe bin cut in de cloth,
-and dey draw it up at de neck, and call um banyan. Dey is wear some kind
-ob slip under um but dat all. Dey ain't know nutting 'bout drawers nor
-nutting like dat.
-
-"De medicine I remember was castor oil, and dogwood and cherry bark,
-which dey put in whiskey and gib you. Dey is gib you dis to keep your
-blood good. Dogwood will bitter yo' blood, it good medicine, I know.
-
-"I 'member de people hab to git ticket for go out at night. W'en dey is
-gone to prayer meeting I is see dem drag bresh back dem to outen dey
-step. If de patrol ketch you wid out ticket dey beat you.
-
-"I 'members w'en de Yankee come tru, and Wheeler a'my come after um.
-Doze bin dreadful times. De Yankees massicued de people, and burn dere
-houses, and stole de meat and eberyting dey could find. De white folks
-hab to live wherebber dey kin, and dey didn't hab enough to eat. I know
-whole families live on one goose a week, cook in greens. Sometimes they
-hab punkin and corn, red corn at dat. Times was haard, haard. De
-cullered people dodn't hab nutting to eat neider. Dat why my auntie
-bring me to Charleston to lib.
-
-"De fust year atter freedom I gone to school on Mr. John Townsend place,
-down to Rockville. After peace declare de cullered people lib on
-cornmeal mush and salt water in de week and mush and vinegar for Sunday.
-Mine you, dat for Sunday. I don't see how we lib, yet we is. About eight
-year after de war we use to go down to de dairy for clabber. Dey give
-you so much for each one in de fambly, two tablespoon full for de grown
-people and one tablespoon for de chilluns. We add water to dat and mek a
-meal. In de country de cullered people lib on uh third (crop) but of
-course at de end of de year dey didn't hab nutting, yet dey has libed. I
-'member w'en de Ku Klux was out too, de people bin scared 'cause dey is
-beat some and kill some."
-
-When asked which she thought best, slavery or freedom, her answer was:
-"Better stay free if you can stay straight. Slabery time was tough, it
-like looking back into de dark, like looking into de night."
-
-Feeling that as she remembered so little of plantation life her opinion
-was based on hearsay or her memories of war times, the writer told her
-of the answer of another old Negro woman: "No matter what slabery bring,
-if it hadn't been for slabery I nebber would hab met my Jesus." It
-seemed to make a strong impression on Amy who threw up her hands in the
-typical African gesture, and said "Praise de Lawd, w'en yo talk 'bout
-Jesus you is got me coming and going."
-
-Amy is deeply religious. She owns four of Judge Rutherford's books which
-she claims to have read "from cubber to cubber" many times. "Some people
-b'lieve in dreams," she said, "but I don't hab no faith in dem. Lot ob
-people b'lieve in root and sich but dey can't scare me wid root. I roll
-ober dem from yuh to Jericho and dey wouldn't bodder me. A man died bad
-right in dat house yonder, and I went wid de doctor and close his sight
-and sich, and I come right home and gone to bed and sleep. He ain't
-bodder me and I ain't see um since. I don't believe in ghosts, nor
-dreams, nor conjuh, dat de worse. John de Baptist and dem dream dreams,
-and de Lawd show dem vision, but dat diffrunt." With another comical
-look at the writer, she continued; "You can eat yo' stomach full and
-you'll dream. I b'lieve in some kind ob vision. You doze off, and you
-hab a good dream. I b'lieve dat. People get converted in dreams. I was
-twelve year ole when I get converted. I dreamed I was in a field, a
-large green field. A girl was dere dat I didn't had no use for. I had a
-bundle on my back. I honey de girl up and love um and de bundle fall on
-de ground. Dey put me in de church den.
-
-"Some people say dey kin see ghost but you can't see ghost and lib. De
-Bible say if you kin see de wind you kin see spirit. If you kin see
-ghost you can see Gawd, and I know you can't see Gawd and lib. De Bible
-say so. I don't b'lieve in um, no ghost, and no cunjuh tho' my uncle
-Cotton Judson and my aunt Nassie both b'lieve in dem. Uncle Cotton could
-do most as much as de debbul (devil) hesself, he could most fly, but I
-nebber b'lieve in um no matter what he kin do."
-
-In order to get her to talk the writer told her of a few of the
-accomplishments of the East Indians. She said, "Yes, Gawd got some
-people mek berry wise. Dey can't say dey mek demself wise. What race
-dese Indian come from, anyway, I know dem come from Indiana, but what
-race, Ham, Seth, Japheth or what. I hear de Indian hab some wise ways,
-and my people b'lieve in all kind ob ghost, and spirit an t'ing but I
-don't. I don't eben let um talk to me 'bout dem, w'en det start I say
-'gone gome wid dat.' I can't counteract de Bible and I can't counteract
-Gawd, I don't b'lieve in um. Dat what I don't visit round. My people lub
-(love) too much idle discourse, and idle discourse is 'gainst de Bible.
-I nebber trapsy round w'en I young and I don't now. Day why I don't hab
-no company. As long as ole people lib dey going to tell de young ones
-'bout ghost an t'ing, and dey going to pass it on, and w'en dey die dey
-going to leab dat foolishness right yuh. No I don't b'lieve in no conjuh
-and no root. If dey gib me poison den dey got me."
-
-Rob Perry
-=========
-
- | **Interview with Uncle Rob Perry & Aunt Della Britton**
- | **Trenton, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"Aunt Della born in 1863. He in 1864. He drove cows fer Marse Squire Jim
-Perry, who lived on the line of Edgefield and Newberry Counties. Mos de
-time dey traded in Newberry County, 'cause it nearer town. All road wuz
-bad in dem days, even in summer dey wuz allus rough.
-
-"Uncle Rob toted water, picked up chips and carried rations fum kitchen
-to dinin room. Often Messrs. Jim Long, Sam, Jake and Bob Smith, (3
-brothers) came to our big house fer dinner and to dance afterward.
-
-"Plenty water to tote and fires to build den. Go out an git pine and
-cedar limbs to put over de picturs and 'roun de mantle boards' Fix up de
-table wid trimmins, git mo candles and put all roun. Mak egg-nog in de
-winter and mint juleps in de summer. Some time dar wuz sillabub, it
-ain't so good tho. De young mens dat I mentioned befo have me ter pick
-out pretty girls fer dem ter dance wid. I drap a curtsey an han' dem de
-name. If dey want ter dance wid him they look at him and flick dey fan
-an if dey didn't den dey never give him no mind.
-
-"Dat done all pass by as evry thing does. Now I thanks God and looks to
-de Savior. Ef dar is success ter ye dat is what you has to do all de
-time. Della and I done had fifteen chilluns. Us is so lonesome as we has
-jes one a livin.
-
-"Mr. Campbell, a Yankee man married Miss Joanna Perry. Her paw wuz Mr.
-Oliver Perry of Bouknight's Ferry on de Saluda River. In dat famly wuz
-Miss Isabelle and Messrs. John, Milledge, Jake and Tom. Miss Joanna
-marry on Friday in de parlor all fixed up wid cedar ropes a-hangin' fum
-de ceilin an de mo-es candles what a body ever did see. She made us
-buil' her a arch and kivver hit wid vines. It sot before de mantle and a
-white bell hung fum de middle uv it. White cloth wuz stretched over
-eveything and dey never let nobuddy walk in dat room cep in dey bare
-feet fer fear dey dirty all dat cloth.
-
-"Miss Isabella sho picked de pianny fer Miss Joanna. A Young lady fum
-anuther plantation sang two songs. All pur white ladies wore dey
-pretties' white dresses wid flowers in dey hair. Miss Joanna had her
-face all kivvered up wid er thin white cloth dat fell off'n her and laid
-all back uv her on de floor. An de white ladies had dey white dresses a
-layin over de floor but didn't none uv dem have dey faces kivvered cept
-Miss Joanna, you see she wuz de bride.
-
-"My ole 'oman wuz rigged in white herself. Evvything in dat house wuz
-fixed up extry fer da ceremony. I wo' one de men's black coats and black
-pants and a white shirt wid a ves' an tie. I had on a fine pair black
-shoes. Dey give all dat ter me en I kep it adder de weddin. Dat suit I
-wore ter church fer de nex ten years.
-
-"Nex day, Saturday, come de big 'infair'. A double table wuz set up in
-de dinin room. Ham, turkey en chicken wuz put on dat table dat wussent
-teched. Dey jes stay dere along wid de fixins. All de victuals wuz
-placed on de plates in de kitchen and fetched to de table. Five darkies
-wuz kep busy refreshin de weddin diners.
-
-"Miss Joanna an de Yankee man what she done married de day befo dat, her
-sister, de lady what sing en her maw an paw an de parson set at de table
-what they calls de bridal table. Dat table had de mo-es trimmins on hit
-of bows an ribbens and de like ob dat. I still sees Miss Joanna a settin
-dare. She wo' her weddin dress jes zactly lak she did de day befo. She
-never had her face kivvered up wuz de onliest change I seed. De weddin
-dinner musta lasted two hours'. Atter dat de carriage came roun en
-evvybody lined up along de front door by de cape jessamines ter throw
-rice an ole shoes at de bride when she come outside de big house ter git
-in de carrage. Evvybody wuz mighty spry to be done danced all de night
-befo til de sun had showed red in de Eas' dat Sadday mornin.
-
-"Atter she gone off I jes' cud'n figger' out how Marse' had got so much
-together fer dat weddin', kaise hit had'n been no time since de Yankee
-so'ders had carried off ev'y thing and left us dat po'. But den sum
-years has slipped by since dat.
-
-"When I turn back to go in de big house, I see de pea-fowls a sneakin'
-off to de river rale 'shame 'kase dey never had er sign uv a tail. All
-dey tail feathers wuz plucked ter make de weddin fans en ter go in de
-Mistus an de gals hats. Dat sho wuz er big drove en dey is de pretties'
-fowl whut dere is, an folks doesn't give dem no mine dese days."
-
-Victoria Perry
-==============
-
- | **Interview with Victoria Perry**
- | **167 Golding St., Spartanburg, S.C.**
- | —*F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C.*
-
-Victoria Perry, who lives in Spartanburg, says that she was just a small
-child when slavery times were "in vogue," being eight years old when the
-"negroes were set free in 1865." Her mother, she said, was Rosanna
-Kelly, and had lived in Virginia before she was bought by Bert Mabin,
-who owned a farm near Newberry. She says that she was often awakened at
-night by her mother who would be crying and praying. When she would ask
-her why she was crying, her mother would tell her that her back was sore
-from the beating that her master had given her that day. She would often
-be told by her mother: "Some day we are going to be free; the Good Lord
-won't let this thing go on all the time." Victoria said she was as
-scared of her master as she was of a mad dog. She said her master used
-to tie her mother to a post, strip the clothes from her back, and whip
-her until the blood came. She said that her mother's clothes would stick
-to her back after she had been whipped because she "bleed" so much. She
-said that she wanted to cry while her mother was being whipped, but that
-she was afraid that she would get whipped if she cried.
-
-"Whenever my master got mad at any of the niggers on the place, he would
-whip them all. He would tie them to a post or to a tree, strip off their
-clothes to the waist, and whip them till he got tired. He was a mean
-master, and I was scared of him. I got out of his sight when he came
-along.
-
-"My father was a white man, one of the overseers on the farm. I don't
-know anything about him or who he was. I never saw him that I knowed of.
-But the way Bert Mabin beat my mother was cruel.
-
-"One day a Yankee come by the house and told my master to get all the
-colored people together; that a certain Yankee general would come by and
-would tell them that they were free. So one day the niggers gathered
-together at the house, and the Yankee general was there with some
-soldiers. They formed a circle around the niggers and the general stood
-in the middle and told us all we were free. My mother shouted, 'The Lord
-be praised.' There was a general rejoicing among the niggers and then we
-backed away and went home. My mother told me she knew the Lord would
-answer her prayers to set her free.
-
-"I went hungry many days, even when I was a slave. Sometimes I would
-have to pick up discarded corn on the cob, wipe the dirt off and eat it.
-Sometimes during slavery, though, we had plenty to eat, but my master
-would give us just anything to eat. He didn't care what we got to eat.
-
-"After we were set free, I went with my mother to the Gist plantation
-down in Union. My mother always wanted to go back to her home at
-Bradford, Virginia, but she had no way to go back except to walk. Work
-was mighty scarce after slavery was over, and we had to pick up just
-what we could get. My mother got a job on the Gist plantation, and
-somehow I got up here to Spartanburg.
-
-"I married Tom Perry, and I have been here ever since, although he is
-dead now. He was a brick-mason.
-
-"I sure was scared of my master, he treated us niggers just like we was
-dogs. He had all our ages in a big Bible at the house, but I never went
-there to see my age. My mother told me always to say I was eight years
-old when I was set free. I am eighty now, according to that."
-
-John Petty
-==========
-
- | **Interview with John Petty (87)**
- | **Hill Street, Gaffney, S.C.**
- | —*Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C.*
-
-"I was born on the Jim Petty place in what was then Spartanburg County.
-
-"Marse raised all his darkies to ride young. I no more 'members when I
-learned to ride than I 'members when I come into the world. Marse had
-his stables built three logs high from the outside of the lot. When the
-horse step down into the lot, then I jump on his back from the third
-log. So little that I never could have got on no other way without help.
-
-"The horse what I rid had a broad fat back and he trot so fast that
-sometimes I fall off, but I hang on to the mane and swing back on his
-back and he never break his gait. Then again if I didn't swing right
-back up he take and stop till I git landed on his back once more.
-
-"One horse called Butler, farm horse named Tom, mule called Jack, slave
-horse called Stoneman, then one called Cheny, one Jane, one Thicketty
-and the stud-horse named Max. I allus play with him, but my folks was
-ig'nant to that fact. I lay down and he jump straight up over me. I git
-corn and he eat it from my hand. There was apples and salt that he loved
-[HW: to eat] from my palm. He throw his fore legs plumb over my head,
-and never touch me at all. All this gwine on in Max's stable. It big
-enough for a dozen or more horses, 'cause it hardly ever beed that Max
-git out and his stable had to be big so as he could exercise in it. So I
-slip in there and we play unbeknownst to the old folks, white or black.
-The door slided open. When I git tired and ready to go out then I slide
-the door open. Maxie knowed that I was gwine and he had the most sense.
-He watch till I git the door slid open and if he could he run by me and
-jump out. I never could git him back in and he race 'round that lot till
-the hands come in from the field at dark. He have a good time and git
-all sweaty.
-
-"When he jump over me out'n the sliding door, then I hide under the feed
-house till Mammy holler, 'Lawdy, fore the living, yonder is Max
-a-ripping hisself plumb to he death in that lot.' Then they send for
-some the mens to git him back. Atter they done that then I crawl out,
-climb the lot fence and run through the field home. When I sets down Maw
-'lows, 'Does you know it's real curious thing how that old stud-horse
-git his door open and come out'n that stable. It must be haints creeping
-'bout right here in the broad open daylight!' At that I draw up real
-near the fire and say, 'Maw, does you reckon that the haints is gwine to
-come and open our door some time?'
-
-"On t'other hand, if I be real quick a-gitting out of the stable door
-before Max turn and see me, when then he couldn't git out. None of them
-never knowed 'bout the good times that me and Max used to did have. And
-it 'pears real strange to me now that he never did hit me with his foots
-nor nothing. That horse sure 'nough did love me and that's jest all what
-it is to that. I also used to slip in the extra feed house and fetch him
-oats and the like 'twixt and 'tween times. He stay that fat and slick.
-But it wouldn't nary lil' darky would go near that stud-horse but me.
-They's all skeered to death when he git in the lot and when they seed
-him in there they would run and git in the house and slam the door plumb
-shut.
-
-"When I done come up nigh 18 or something like that, the big freedom
-come 'round. Marse Jim say us could all go and see the world as we'uns
-was free niggers. Us jump up and shout Glory and sing, but us never
-sassed our white folks like it 'pears to be the knowledge up North. I'd
-done been there and they thinks us turned our backs on our white folks,
-but I never seed nothing but scalawag niggers and poor white trash
-a-doing that, that I ain't. One nigger went from the plantation to the
-north as they called it.
-
-"When he had done stayed there fer five years then he come back and
-hired out to Marse Jim. He looked real lanky, but I never paid that no
-mind then. He was older than I was and he always 'lowing, 'John, up in
-Winston all the niggers makes five dollar a day; how come you don't go
-up there and git rich like I is'. Some of the older ones laugh when he
-talk to me like that and he lean to my ear and say real low, 'They's
-ig'nant.'
-
-"One day when the crops done laid by I told Marse Jim, as I allus call
-him that, I 'lows, 'Marse, dis fall I gwine north to git rich, but I
-sure is gwine to bring you folks something when I comes south again'.
-
-"So Marse give me my money and I set out for the north. I got to
-Winston-Salem and got me a job. But it was that hard a-cleaning and
-a-washing all the time. 'Cause I never knowed nothing 'bout no 'baccy
-and there wasn't nothing that I could turn off real quick that would
-bring me no big money. It got cold and I never had no big oak logs to
-burn in my fireplace and I set and shivered till I lay down. Then it
-wasn't no kivver like I had at Marse Jim's. Up there they never had
-'nough wood to keep no fire all night.
-
-"Next thing I knowed I was down with the grip and it took all the money
-dat I had and then I borrowed some to pay the doctor. So I up and come
-back home. It took me a long time to reach Spartanburg and from there I
-struck up with the first home niggers I seed since I left in the fall.
-That make me more better than I feel since the first day what I 'rive at
-Winston. Long afore I 'rive at home, I knowed that I done been a fool to
-ever leave the plantation.
-
-"When I git home all the darkies that glad to offer me the 'glad hand'.
-I ax where that nigger what 'ticed me off to the north and they all 'low
-that he done took the consumption and died soon after I done gone from
-home. I never had no consumption, but it took me long time to git over
-the grippe. I goes to old Marse and hires myself out and I never left
-him no more till the Lawd took him away.
-
-"God knows that the slaves fared better than these free niggers is. Us
-had wool clothes in the winter and us had fire and plenty wood and
-plenty to eat and good houses to keep out the rain and cold. In the
-summer us had cool clabber milk and bread and meat and spring water and
-now us don't have all them things and us can't keep up no houses like
-our log houses was kept.
-
-"Why, Charlie Petty, Marse's son, wore home made clothes at home jest as
-us did. He was dat proud that he 'come editor or something of a
-Spartanburg paper."
-
-Sarah Poindexter
-================
-
- | **Interview with Sarah Poindexter, 87 years old**
- | **800 Lady Street (in the rear), Columbia, S.C.**
- | —*Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-"My name is Sarah Poindexter. I was born in 1850, on de plantation of
-Jacob Poindexter, 'bout ten miles beyond Lexington court house. These
-old eyes of mine has seen a mighty lot of things here'bouts durin' de
-eighty-seven years I been 'round here.
-
-"De first time I see Columbia, it de powerfulest lot of big wood houses
-and muddy streets I ever see in my life. De Poindexter wagon dat carry
-my daddy and my mammy and me to de big town, pretty often mire in
-mudholes all 'long de big road from de plantation to de court house. Dat
-trip was made 'bout 1857, 'cause I was seven years old when I made dat
-trip.
-
-"Since that first trip I has lived in sight of Columbia, 'most all my
-life. My daddy, my mammy and me lived on de plantation of Master
-Poindexter until 1863. We might a lived there longer, if things had not
-been so upset. I sho' recall de excitement in de neighborhood when
-roving crowds of niggers come 'long de big road, shoutin' and singin'
-dat all niggers am free. Snow was on de ground, but de spirits of de
-niggers was sho' plenty hot.
-
-"De Poindexter plantation was one big place of excitement them days. De
-slaves work some, all durin' de war, sometimes I now 'spects it was for
-de sake of de missus. All of us loved her, 'cause she was so kind and
-good to us. She was cryin' and worryin' all de time 'bout her manfolks,
-who was away fightin' damn Yankees, she say. She sho' had plenty of
-backbone or spunk, when stragglers show up, they always hungry and
-always ready to take what they want to eat, until the missus come on de
-scene with her trusty shotgun. It seem like de war last forever to me,
-'stead of 'bout five years. To a child, Lordy, how long de years hang
-on, and when we get past fifty, oh, how fast de time runs.
-
-"One day mammy stay in bed, too sick to go to de big house to cook, and
-befo' noon, who should come to our cabin but Missus Poindexter herself,
-carryin' a basket. She set it down and say to mammy: 'Lawzy Sadie, I not
-leave you here to starve; then she uncover de basket and set out a big
-plate of chicken and dumplin', hot biscuits, coffee, and a lot of other
-good things.
-
-"When she gone, mammy eat some and give me some, and mammy git up next
-mornin' and say: 'Sis, my white folks' missus am so good and kind, I am
-goin' to work for her today, best I can'. She went but she wasn't good
-well yet. Missus Poindexter many times fetch me a piece of candy or
-somethin' when she go to town and back.
-
-"No, I never see Columbia burn in 1865, but we reckon that it was
-burnin' that night in February, 1865, 'cause we smell it and de whole
-east look lak some extra light is shinin' and pretty soon, some folks
-come ridin' by and tell us the whole city in flames. De next time I see
-it, I guess there wasn't fifty houses standin'. Chimneys standin'
-'round, is about all there was where most of de city was standin' befo'.
-
-"My daddy was killed down 'bout Aiken, shortly after 1865. Me and mammy
-come to Columbia and live in a cabin in de alley back of Senate Street,
-where mammy take in washin' and cook for some white folks, who know her;
-I helped her. She die in 1868, and I goes 'way with four other nigger
-gals to Durham to work in a tobacco factory. Both white and nigger women
-work there, but de nigger women do most of de hard work, strippin' de
-leaves, stemmin' them, and placin' them to dry. White women finish them
-for de trade.
-
-"In 1870 when I comes back to Columbia de city am acomin' back. Big
-buildin's up along de streets, but most of them was made of wood. Soon
-after that I gets work in a hotel, but Columbia at that time was not so
-big and Durham was smaller still, although Durham had more brick houses.
-I was happier on de Poindexter plantation and had fewer things to worry
-'bout than when I was ascratchin' 'round for myself.
-
-"You ask has I been married? Yes, I marry a dandy lookin' young man,
-'bout my own age, 'bout a year after I comes back to Columbia. His name,
-so he say, is Sam Allen. He make fun of some other niggers who work at
-one thing or another to live. One day he come to where I work and say he
-bound to raise ten dollars. I hands him de cash, and he gives me a good
-kiss right there befo' de folks, but I never see him again. I hear,
-after he gone, that he win some more money at a gamblin' place on
-Assembly street, and reckon he decided to blow 'way, while blowin' was
-good.
-
-"De folks who know me always call me Sarah Poindexter and I got it
-honestly, like other honest slaves who never know what their real name
-was, and so I keeps it to the end of the road.
-
-"I am now livin' with a distant relative and firmly trustin' in Jesus,
-as I have done for more than fifty years, that he will keep me to the
-end of the trail here and greet me when I pass on 'way up
-Yonder'."
-
-Sam Polite
-==========
-
- | **Interview with Sam Polite, age 93**
- | —*Mrs. Chlotilde R. Martin, Beaufort County*
-
-"W'en gun shoot on Bay Pint (Bay Point) for freedom, I been sebenteen
-year old wuking slabe. I born on B. Fripp Plantation on St. Helena
-Island. My fadder been Sam Polite and my mudder been Mol Polite. My
-fadder b'long to Mister Marion Fripp and my mudder b'long to Mister Old
-B. Fripp. I don't know how mucher land, neider how much slabe he hab,
-but he hab two big plantation, and many slabe—more'n a hundred slabe.
-
-"Slabe lib on Street—two row ob house wid two room to de house. I hab
-t'ree sister name, Silvy Polite, Rose Polite and Minda Polite. Hab
-brudder, too, but he die.
-
-"My fadder and mudder ain't marry. Slabe don't marry—dey jest lib
-togedder. All slabe hab for stay on plantation in day time but w'en wuk
-done, kin wisit wife on odder plantation. Hab pass, so Patrol won't git
-um.
-
-"W'en I been leetle boy, I play en Street—shoot marble play aa'my and
-sech t'ing. W'en hawn blow and mawning star rise, slabe' hab for git up
-and cook. W'en day clean, dey gone to field. 'Ooman too old for wuk in
-field hab for stay on Street and mind baby. Old mens follow cow. Chillen
-don't wuk in field 'till twelve or t'irteen year old. You carry dinner
-to field in your can and leabe um at de heading (end of row). W'en you
-feel hongry, you eat. Ebery slabe hab tas' (task) to do. Sometime one
-task (quarter acre), sometime two tas', and sometime t'ree. You haf for
-wuk 'til tas' t'ru (through). W'en cotton done mek, you hab odder tas'.
-Haffa cut cord ob maash (marsh) grass maybe. Tas' ob maash been eight
-feet long and four feet high. Den sometime you haffa (have to) roll cord
-ob mud in cowpen. 'Ooman haffa rake leaf from wood into cowpen. (This
-was used for fertilizer.)
-
-"W'en you knock off wuk, you kin wuk on your land. Maybe you might hab
-two or t'ree tas' ob land 'round your cabin what Maussa gib you for
-plant. You kin hab chicken, maybe hawg. You kin sell aig (egg) and
-chicken to store and Maussa will buy your hawg. In dat way slabe kin hab
-money for buy t'ing lak fish and w'atebber he want. We don't git much
-fish in slabery 'cause we nebber hab boat. But sometime you kin t'row
-out net en ketch shrimp. You kin also ketch 'possum and raccoon wid your
-dawg.
-
-"On Sattidy night ebery slabe dat wuks gits peck ob corn and pea, and
-sometime meat and clabber. You nebber see any sugar neider coffee in
-slabery. You has straw in your mattress but dey gib you blanket. Ebery
-year in Christmas month you gits four or eider fibe yaa'd cloth 'cording
-to how you is. Out ob dat, you haffa mek your clote (clothes). You wears
-dat same clote till de next year. You wears hit winter en summer, Sunday
-en ebery day. You don't git no coat, but dey gib you shoe. In slabery,
-you don't know nutting 'bout sheets for your bed. Us nebber know
-nutting 'bout Santa Claus 'till Freedom, but on Christmas Maussa gib you
-meat and syrup and maybe t'ree day widout wuk. Slabe wuk 'till daa'k on
-Sattidy jest lak any odder day—I still does wuk 'till daa'k on Sattidy.
-But on Sunday slabe don't wuk. On Fourth ob July, slabe wuk 'till twelbe
-o'clock and den knocks off. On Sunday slabe kin wisit back and fort'
-(forth) on de plantations.
-
-"Slabe don't do mucher frolic. W'en 'ooman hab baby he hab mid-wife for
-nine day and sometime don't haffa wuk for month w'en baby born, Missis
-send clote (clothes) from Big House. W'en nigger sick, Maussa sen'
-doctor. If you been berry sick, doctor gib you calomus (calomel) or
-castor oil. Sometime he gib you Dead-Shot for worms, or Puke (powder) to
-mek you heave. If I jest hab a pain in muh stummick, my mudder gib me
-Juse-e-moke w'at he git outen de wood." (I was unable to get any definite
-idea of what 'Dead-Shot', 'Puke' or 'Juse-e-moke' were.)
-
-"If slabe don't do tas', de git licking wid lash on naked back. Driver
-nigger gib licking, but Maussa 'most always been dere. Sometime maybe
-nigger steal hawg or run 'way to de wood, den he git licking too. Can't
-be no trouble 'tween white folks and nigger in slabery time for dey do
-as dey choose wid you. But Maussa good to slabe If dey done day's tas'
-and don't be up to no meanness. Missis don't hab nutting to do wid
-nigger.
-
-"In slabery, nigger go to white folks chu'ch. Slabe don't know nutting
-'bout baptizing. W'en nigger dead, you can't knock off wuk for berry um.
-You haffa wait 'till night time to put um in de graabe (grave). You
-berry um by de light ob torch. Old Man Tony Ford bin de man w'at 'tend
-to funerals. Dey wasn't no nigger preacher on de plantation but dey been
-people to hold praise (prayers).
-
-"I nebber see nigger in chain, but I shum (see them) in stock. I see
-plenty nigger sell on banjo table. Dey put you up on flatform (platform)
-en dey buy you. I see my uncle sell he brung one hundred dollar. 'Ooman
-don't sell widout he chillen.
-
-"Mister Johnnie Fripp been my n'oung Maussa. W'en he chillen git marry,
-Old Maussa diwide de nigger. He gib Maussa Johnnie t'irty slabe and I
-been one ob dem. Maussa buy plantation on de Main (mainland). He build
-big house. He hab four boy and two gal. He hab five hundred acre. He
-ain't hab no oberseer, jest driver. We don't know no poor white trash on
-de Main, neider on St. Helena Islant.
-
-"I wuk in field on Maussa Johnnie Fripp plantation. Sometime we sing
-w'en us wuk. One song we sing been go lak dis:
-
- | Go way, Ole Man
- | Go way, Ole Man
- | W'ere you bin all day
- | If you treat me good
- | I'll stay 'till de Judgment day,
- | But if you treat me bad,
- | I'll sho' to run away.
-
-"W'en war come, Missis tek me and two more niggers, put we and chillen
-in two wagon and go to Baarnwell (Barnwell). My mudder been one ob de
-nigger. We stay in Baarnwell all enduring (during) de war. My fadder he
-been wid de Rebel—been wid Mr. Marion Chaplin. W'en Freedom come,
-Missis didn't say nutting, she jest cry. But she gib we uh wagon and we
-press (stole) a horse and us come back to St. Helena Islant. It tek
-t'ree day to git home. W'en we git home, we fine de rest ob de nigger
-yere been hab Freedom four year befo' we! I wuk for uh nigger name Peter
-White. Muh fadder come back, and buy 20 acre ob land and we all lib
-togedder. I gone to school one or two year, but I ain't larn (learn)
-much. Four year after war, I buy fifteen acre ob land. Dat was dis yere
-same place w'ere I libs now. After w'ile I goes to wuk in rock
-(phosphate mines). I hears 'bout Ku Klux. Dey been bad people. Dey will
-kill you. Been marry to four wife. Dis yere last one, he been born in
-slabery too, but he don't 'members much 'bout um. He been leetle gal so
-high jest big 'nuf for open gate for white folks. I hab t'ree chillen,
-two libbing. I hear tell my boy William been marry to a w'ite 'ooman in
-England and hab t'ree chillen. My gal Alice lib in New Yawk. Sometime
-she send me money. I hab two great-gran.
-
-"Abraham Lincoln? He de one w'at gib we liberty for wuk for we se'f. He
-come to Beaufort 'fore de war. He come as uh rail-splitter and spy
-'round. He gone back w'ere he come from and say: 'You eider got to gib
-dese nigger t'ree day for deyse'f or dere will be blood-shed.' And he
-been right. I would be glad for shum (see him) but I nebber shum.
-
-"I don't know nutting 'bout dat genman Mister Davis, neider Mister
-Washington—you say he been a nigger, too?
-
-"Wat I t'ink 'bout slabery? I t'ink it been good t'ing. It larn nigger
-to wuk. If it ain't mek nigger wuk, he wouldn't do nutting but tief
-(thief). You don't find nigger wuk for slabery running 'round looking
-for ready money—dat been all dese yere n'oung nigger want. Me—I
-slabing for self right now. I don't want nobody for mek me wuk, but
-slabery larn me for wuk. I hab wuk five hundred head ob man in rock and
-today ain't one can come to me and say: 'Sam Polite, you beat me out ob
-one penny.'
-
-"Slabery done uh good t'ing for me, 'cause if he ain't larn me to wuk,
-today I wouldn't know how to wuk."
-
-William Pratt
-=============
-
- | **Interview with William Pratt (77)**
- | **Newberry, S.C. RFD**
- | —*G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C.*
-
-"I live with my children on a farm in Newberry County. I have a good
-place to live and plenty to eat. I work on the farm. I moved from
-Chester County in the year 1898, the year the Spanish-American War
-started.
-
-"I was born in Chester County in April 1860. My parents belonged to the
-Pratts, but my mother belonged to the Kennedys before she married. They
-went to Robert K. Kennedy and was with him as his slaves. He was a good
-man but his wife was mean. She sure could 'cuss out slaves if they made
-her mad. She whipped me once when I was a small boy. I couldn't do much
-with her. My daddy's family belonged to the Pratts who lived seven miles
-from Chester. They was good folks to slaves. They always had lots to eat
-from their big garden. The white folks went hunting, and it was said
-some wild turkeys was around Price's Mountain, about nine miles south of
-Chester.
-
-"We got up before day and went to work and worked till sundown. My mammy
-cooked for the family; and one day the mistress got mad at her and hit
-her on the head with a coffee paddle. We worked all day on Saturdays but
-didn't work on Sundays. On Christmas we had a holliday and had frolics
-and big eats.
-
-"The patrollers once caught my daddy out at night without a pass and
-whipped him a little, just for mischief. He was always allowed to go
-about where he wanted to go without a pass, but next time he asked Miss
-Polly for a paper to take out with him.
-
-"After the war the Ku Klux didn't bother us but the Red Shirts come and
-wanted us to join them, that is they wanted my brother to join. He
-wouldn't join though. My brother-in-law joined and wore one of the
-shirts with them. He wanted Wade Hampton elected as he believed it was
-best for us. He was a Democrat and said they all ought to wear them.
-Once some mischief was played on a Negro who was a Republican and voted
-for Chamberlain. He was given a card and told to go to a certain
-merchant and show the card to him, that the merchant was a Chamberlain
-man and would give him supplies. He showed the card to the merchant who
-got mad and told the Negro if he didn't get out of his store he would
-kill him.
-
-"Some of the old folks sometimes saw ghosts. A negro went to church one
-night on a horse, and somebody slipped up behind and spurred the horse.
-The Negro went home as fast as he could, saying that he had seen a
-ghost.
-
-"When Freedom come, Old Man Kennedy took it well and said we was all
-free, but his wife just cursed us and said, 'Damn you, you are free
-now'. Old Marse Kennedy had some sons killed in the war. James and
-Douglas Kennedy lived in Chester County after the war.
-
-"We used to dance jigs by ourself, and we danced the 'hack-back',
-skipping backwards and forwards facing each other. When one danced a jig
-he would sing, 'Juber this, Juber that, Juber kills a yellow cat'. My
-brother used to sing a cotton picking song: 'My mammy got meat skin laid
-away; grease my belly three times a day'.
-
-"We was Baptist and baptized by immersion. An old Baptist song that was
-sung at the baptism was: 'Trouble water today, trouble water today,
-trouble water today. He will save you, He will save you; come to Jesus
-today, come to Jesus today, come to Jesus today. He will save you, He
-will save you, just now.'
-
-"An old wood-chopping song which is yet sung by negroes is:
-
- | Come on baby, let us go down;
- | Come on baby, let us go down;
- | Ten-pounder hammer stove my head;
- | 'nough to kill my body dead.
-
-"I married Rosy Kennedy, a daughter of Mose Kennedy, and had five
-children, but only two are now living. I have several grandchildren
-living in Chester County. I worked first on the Kennedy place. Their
-daughter, Miss Julie, was good to us. She married Robert Orr of Chester.
-She didn't have many beaux before because her mother was so mean nobody
-wanted to come around her. Miss Julie helped at my wedding. When my wife
-wasn't able to get breakfast so I could go to work, Miss Julie would
-tell me to come to her house and eat. That was after her mother died.
-
-"I think Abraham Lincoln didn't do just right, 'cause he threw all the
-negroes on the world without any way of getting along. They was
-helpless. He ought to have done it gradually and give them a chance to
-get on their own. I think Booker Washington is a great man and has done
-great work, because he says negroes must have education and learn to
-work, too, and not sit down and expect more because he is educated.
-
-"I joined the church because I believe there is a 'here-after', and I
-wanted to learn more about Jesus and get His forgiveness for what I had
-done wrong. We need Him always, because St. Matthews says the last state
-of man is worse than the first."
-
-Henry Pristell
-==============
-
- | **Interview with Henry Pristell, 83 year old**
- | **Estill, S.C.**
- | —*Phoebe Faucette, Hampton County*
-
-'Uncle Henry' Pristell and his wife, Lucina, live in the town of Estill
-in the usual type of small negro cabin. 'Uncle Henry' has a record of
-his age that shows that he is eighty-three years old but he is so well
-preserved that it is hard to believe. Although he is very bald, and his
-closely cut hair is nearly white, he gets about so easily and talks with
-such vigor he seems much younger.
-
-"Oh, yes ma'am, I kin tell you 'bout de war times. I seen lots of dat,
-ma'am. I seen lots: I couldn't tell you all 'bout it—it been so
-distressful—but I kin tell some. When de Yankees come, at first sight
-of dem dey was string right 'long as far back as Luray. And string out
-crossways all over everywhere. Dey was jes' as thick together as de
-panels in dis fence. Dey was thousands of 'em! It was in de afternoon,
-an' dey was over everywhere—over de woods, over de fields, an' through
-de swamps, thick as dem weeds out dere! Dey didn't leave anything! Dey
-burn de fences down, shoot de cows, de hogs, de turkeys an' ducks an
-geese, de chickens an' everything. Dey didn't stay no time—didn't spend
-de night—jes' pass through. I see some of 'em set a fence afire an'
-stop dere an' cook. Dere was rail fences of fat pinewood in dem days.
-
-"For de plantation use, dey didn't burn none of de colored folks' houses
-nor de old boss' house. An' as for anybody being injured when dey pass
-through I didn't see none of dat. I must speak de truth, ma'am I didn't
-see anything out of the way. Jes' burn things an' take things to eat.
-Dere was Mr. Thomas' place, an' Mr. David Horton's place, den Mr.
-Wallace' place. Dey didn't burn any of 'em. I was on de Wallace place.
-My old boss been Mr. Sam Wallace. De house been up dere till 'bout
-thirty year ago. Dat been a fine place. Oh, yes ma'am. De house was
-built up high off de ground—as high as de top of dat room dere. I don't
-know why dey didn't burn de house. Now dat's all I kin tell you 'bout
-dat. In all other little doings, I didn't so much as realize it 'cause
-dey been little scattering doings. I do remember dat dere was a camp at
-Lawtonville for a while. Dey built a place for de prisoners, of mud. Dey
-dug a pit down in de ground 'bout three feet deep, den made de walls of
-mud. I'm satisfied 'bout dat. Dey didn't stay long. It was de Southern
-soldiers had de camp.
-
-"After de war, we stay dere on de place. Stay dere for years. My father
-been Abram Pristell, my mother Lucy Pristell. 'Fore de war, I been jes'
-a little boy. Didn't have no special work to do. I penetrates 'round de
-yard dere by de kitchen. My mother would cook for de folks. Penetrate
-several days an' several night. De kitchen was off from de house. It had
-a big fireplace in it. Didn't have no stove. I'll be honest wid you. I'm
-satisfied 'bout dat! Had a loom in it an' a spinnin' wheel. I seen dem a
-many a time spinnin' an' weavin'. Oh, yes ma'am, I'm satisfied 'bout
-dat! An' dey had plenty of good things to eat. Oh, dey was well
-secured. You'll never see dat no more—not on dis side! But dey had
-plenty of people to feed an' to take care of. 'Course we don't want dose
-times no more, 'cause while some of de boss been good to 'em some of 'em
-been bad. What little time we got here we wants to take it easy an'
-quiet."
-
-Junius Quattlebaum
-==================
-
- | **Interview with Junius Quattlebaum, 84 years old**
- | —*Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C.*
-
-Junius Quattlebaum lives with his grandson, a short distance south of
-the Guignard Brick Factory, in the town of New Brookland, S.C. He is
-partially capable of self-support from what work and produce he is able
-to pick up around the City Market in Columbia.
-
-"Well, sir, you want to talk to me 'bout them good old days back yonder
-in slavery time, does you? I call them good old days, 'cause I has never
-had as much since. I has worked harder since de war betwixt de North and
-de South than I ever worked under my marster and missus. I was just a
-small boy while de war was gwine on, but I was big 'nough to see and
-know what went on dere on de plantation all right.
-
-"I was born on Marster Jim Quattlebaum's plantation over dere in Saluda
-County. He had 'bout sixty-five slaves in all, countin' de chillun. My
-marster wouldn't have no overseer, 'cause he say overseers would whip
-his niggers and he didn't 'low nobody, white or black, to do dat. If his
-niggers had to be whipped, he was gwine to do dat hisself and then they
-wouldn't be hurt much. Marster lak to see his slaves happy and singin'
-'bout de place. If he ever heard any of them quarrelin' wid each other,
-he would holler at them and say: 'Sing! Us ain't got no time to fuss on
-dis place.'
-
-"Marster lak he dram, 'specially in de fall of de year when it fust git
-cool. Us used to have big corn shuckin's on de plantation at night,
-'long 'bout de fust of November of every year. All de corn was hauled
-from de fields and put in two or three big piles in de barnyard and de
-slaves would git 'round them, sing and shuck de corn. De slave women
-would hang buckets of raw tar afire on staves drove in de ground 'round
-de crowd, to give light. Them was sho' happy times.
-
-"Marster would give all de grown slaves a dram or two of pure apple
-brandy, on them corn shuckin' nights, and take several smiles (drinks)
-hisself. I 'members so well, one of them nights, dat marster come to de
-barnyard, where us was all lit up, a singin' fit to kill hisself. Us was
-s'prised to see marster settin' down wid us niggers and shuckin' corn as
-fas' as us was. After a spell, him stood up and took 'nother smile, then
-say: 'Pass de jug 'round and let's all take a drink.' Wid dat, one of de
-niggers grab de jug of liquor and passed it 'round to all de shuckers.
-Then marster say: 'Everybody sing.' Some of de niggers 'quire: 'What you
-gwine to sing?' He say:—'Sing dis song: Pass 'round de bottle and we'll
-all take a drink.' Some of them in de crowd 'jected to dat song, 'cause
-they had 'nough liquor in them to 'ject to anything. Marster kinda
-scratch he head and say: 'Well, let me git a pole and you all is gwine
-to sing.' And singin' dere was, as sho' as you's born. Them niggers
-'round de corn piles dat night h'isted dat song right now; dere was no
-waitin' for de pole or nothin' else. They wanted to sing, bad.
-
-"De next mornin', after dis night I's talkin' 'bout, Miss Martha, our
-good missus come 'round to de slave houses and 'quire how they all felt.
-She say: 'You all can rest today and do what you want to do, 'cause
-Marster Jim ain't feelin' so well dis mornin'.' She knowed what was
-gwine on at de corn shuckin' de night befo' but she ain't said nothin'
-'bout it. Mammy said many times dat de missus didn't lak dat whiskey
-drinkin' business in nobody. She was a pure and 'ligious woman if dere
-ever was one in dis world. Dere ain't no wonder dat de marster was
-foolish 'bout her. Mammy say de onliest way for both white and black to
-keep from lovin' Miss Martha, was to git away from her and not be so
-you could see her.
-
-"Dis is de way our marsters treated deir slaves. I don't care what de
-world does write and say 'bout slave owners; I knows dis. Us slaves dat
-b'long on marster's plantation had de best folks to live and work wid I
-has ever seen or knowed. Dere is no sich kindness dese days betwixt de
-boss and them dat does de work. All de slaves worked pretty hard
-sometimes but never too hard. They worked wid light and happy hearts,
-'cause they knowed dat marster would take good care of them; give them a
-plenty of good vittles, warm clothes, and warm houses to sleep in, when
-de cold weather come. They sho' had nothin' to worry 'bout and no
-overseer to drive them to work, lak some slaves on other plantations
-had. Easy livin' is 'bout half of life to white folks but it is all of
-life to most niggers. It sho' is.
-
-"No, sir, de patarollers (patrollers) didn't bother none of marster's
-slaves. I has done told you he wouldn't let nobody, white or black, whip
-his niggers, 'cause he thought too much of them and de work they could
-do on de plantation when they was well and healthy. Yes, sir, I
-'members, lak yistiddy, when Columbia was burned by de Yankees in 1865.
-All dat happened in de month of February, I thinks. Some of de niggers
-on de plantation said they seen de smoke from dat big fire, but I has my
-doubts 'bout de truth of dat.
-
-"When Christmas come, all de slaves on de plantation had three days give
-to them, to rest and enjoy themselves. Missus and de two little misses
-fixed up a big Christmas tree. It was a big holly bush wid red berries
-all over it. It sho' was a picture of beautifulness. I can see missus so
-plain now, on Christmas mornin', a flirtin' 'round de Christmas trees,
-commandin' de little misses to put de names of each slave on a package
-and hang it on de tree for them. She was always pleased, smilin' and
-happy, 'cause she knowed dat she was doin' somethin' dat would make
-somebody else happy. She tried as hard to make de slaves happy as she
-did to make her own white friends happy, it seem lak to me. Close to de
-tree was a basket and in dat basket was put in a bag of candy, apples,
-raisins and nuts for all de chillun. Nobody was left out.
-
-"Christmas mornin', marster would call all de slaves to come to de
-Christmas tree. He made all de chillun set down close to de tree and de
-grown slaves jined hands and make a circle 'round all. Then marster and
-missus would give de chillun deir gifts, fust, then they would take
-presents from de tree and call one slave at a time to step out and git
-deirs. After all de presents was give out, missus would stand in de
-middle of de ring and raise her hand and bow her head in silent thanks
-to God. All de slaves done lak her done. After all dis, everybbdy was
-happy, singin', and laughin' all over de place. Go 'way from here, white
-man! Don't tell me dat wasn't de next step to heaven to de slaves on our
-plantation. I sees and dreams 'bout them good old times, back yonder, to
-dis day."
-
-.. footnotes:: Footnotes
- :class: smaller
-
-.. topic:: Transcriber's Note
-
- Original spelling has been maintained; e.g. "*stob*—a short
- straight piece of wood, such as a stake" (American Heritage
- Dictionary).—The Works Progress Administration was renamed
- during 1939 as the Work Projects Administration (WPA).
-
-|
-|
-|
-|
-|
-
-.. _pg_end_line:
-
-\*\*\* END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 \*\*\*
-
-.. backmatter::
-
-.. toc-entry::
- :depth: 0
-
-.. _pg-footer:
-
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diff --git a/36022.txt b/36022.txt deleted file mode 100644 index ff52042..0000000 --- a/36022.txt +++ /dev/null @@ -1,8412 +0,0 @@ - Slave Narratives - - Volume XIV, South Carolina Narratives, Part 3 - - -This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with almost -no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or re-use it -under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included with this -eBook or online at http://www.gutenberg.org/license. - -Title: Slave Narratives: A Folk History of Slavery in the United States -From Interviews with Former Slaves: Volume XIV, South Carolina -Narratives, Part 3 - -Author: Work Projects Administration - -Release Date: May 04, 2011 [EBook #36022] - -Language: English - -Character set encoding: US-ASCII - -*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK -HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER -SLAVES: VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 *** - - - - -Produced by the Online Distributed Proofreading Team at -http://www.pgdp.net. - - - SLAVE NARRATIVES - - - - - - - - - _A Folk History of Slavery in the United States_ - - - - _From Interviews with Former Slaves_ - - - - - - - - - TYPEWRITTEN RECORDS PREPARED BY - - - - THE FEDERAL WRITERS' PROJECT - - - - 1936-1938 - - - - ASSEMBLED BY - - - - THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS PROJECT - - - - WORK PROJECTS ADMINISTRATION - - - - FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA - - - - SPONSORED BY THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS - - - - - - - - - _Illustrated with Photographs_ - - - - WASHINGTON 1941 - - - - - - - - - VOLUME XIV - - - - SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES--PART 3 - - - - - - - - - Prepared by the Federal Writers' Project of - - - - the Works Progress Administration - - - - for the State of Alabama - - - - [HW:] Handwritten note - - - - [TR:] Transcriber's note - - - - - -INFORMANTS - - - - Adeline Jackson - - - Cordelia Anderson Jackson - - - Agnes James - - - Fred James - - - Isiah Jeffries - - - Thomas Jefferson - - - Henry D. Jenkins - - - Maria Jenkins - - - Paul Jenkins - - - Emma Jeter - - - Adeline Hall Johnson - - - Anna Johnson - - - Jack Johnson - - - James Johnson - - - Rev. James H. Johnson - - - Jane Johnson - - - Jimmie Johnson - - - Mary Johnson - - - Miemy Johnson - - - Tom Johnson - - - Richard (Look-up) Jones - - - Wesley Jones - - - Sallie Layton Keenan - - - Ella Kelly - - - Martha Kelly - - - Mary Jane Kelley - - - Gabe Lance - - - Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence - - - Ben Leitner - - - Mary Ann Lipscomb - - - Govan Littlejohn - - - Easter Lockhart - - - Gable Locklier - - - Walter Long - - - Gillam Lowden - - - Emma Lowran - - - Nellie Loyd - - - Amie Lumpkin - - - Ballam Lyles - - - Eison Lyles - - - Moses Lyles - - - George McAlilley - - - Ed McCrorey (Mack) - - - Richard Mack - - - Jake McLeod - - - Bill McNeil - - - Andy Marion - - - Milton Marshall - - - Charlie Meadow - - - Albert Means - - - Andrew Means - - - Jason Miller - - - Lucinda Miller - - - Cureton Milling - - - Abbey Mishow - - - Sam Mitchell - - - Charity Moore - - - Sena Moore - - - Silas Nelson - - - Susan Nelson - - - William Oliver - - - Albert Oxner - - - Ann Palmer - - - George Patterson - - - Sallie Paul - - - Lina Anne Pendergrass - - - Amy Perry - - - Rob Perry - - - Victoria Perry - - - John Petty - - - Sarah Poindexter - - - Sam Polite - - - William Pratt - - - Henry Pristell - - - Junius Quattlebaum - - - - - -Adeline Jackson - - - *Interview with Adeline Jackson, 88 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"I was born four miles southwest of where I is now, on de other side of -Woodward Station. I was a slave of old Marster John Mobley, de richest -man, de larges' land owner, and wid more niggers than any other white -man in de county. He was de seventh son of de seventh son, so he -allowed, and you knows dat's a sign of a big family, lots of cows, -mules, horses, money, chillun and everything dat's worth havin'. He had -a good wife too; dis de way he got her, he say. She de daughter of old -Maj. Andy McLean, who got a body full of bullets in de Revolution; he -didn't want Katie to marry Marster John. Marster John git on a mule and -ride up in de night. Miss Katie runned out, jump up behin' him, run away -and marry Marster John. They had de same birthday, March 27th, but -Marster John two years older than Miss Katie. Dat day was looked to, -same as Christmas, every year dat come. Big times then, I tell you! - -"My mistress had long hair, techin' de floor and could dance, so Marster -John said, wid a glass of water on top of her head. Marster John got -'ligion and went all de way lak de jailer in de Bible. All de house -jined wid him and mos' of de slaves. It was Baptist and he built a -spankin' good church buildin' down de road, all out of his own money, -and de cemetery dere yet. He called it 'Fellowship.' Some fine -tombstones in dere yet. De finest cost two thousand dollars, dat's his -daughter Nancy's tomb. Marster John and my old mistress buried in dere. - -"When my younges' mistress, name Marion Rebecca, married her second -cousin, Marster Edward P. Mobley, I was give to her and went wid them to -de June place. It was called dat because old Doctor June built it and -sold it to Marster Ed. I nussed her first chillun: Edward, Moses Hill, -John and Katie. It was a large, two-story frame house, with chimneys at -each gable end. Marster Edward got to be as rich as old marster; he -owned de June place, de Rochelle plantation, de Peay place and de -Roebuck place. Yes sir, course us had overseers for so many slaves and -plantations. I 'member Mr. Oze Brown, Mr. Neely and Mr. Tim Gladney. In -course of time I was took off de nussin' and put to de field. I drapped -cotton seed, hoed some, and picked cotton. - -"I don't 'member no poor buckra, outside de overeeers, 'cept a Mr. Reed -dat lived down on wateroe, passin' our house sometime. He was a -Godforsaken lookin' man dat marster or mistress always give somethin'. - -"Our neighbors was de Pearys, de Durhams, de Picketts, de Barbers and -Boulwares. Doctor Henry Gibson was our doctor. All dese folks kep' a -pack of hounds to run deer and foxes. Yes, I has eat many pieces of -deer. Good? I wouldn't fool you, taste it and you'll hunger for it ever -afterward. - -"Yes sir, at certain times we worked long and hard, and you had to be -'ticular. De only whipping I got was for chopping down a good corn stalk -near a stump in a new ground. Marster never sold a slave but swaps were -made wid kin people to advantage, slaves' wives and husbands sometimes. -I never learned to read or write. I went to White Poplar Springs Church, -de Baptist church my mistress 'tended. De preacher was Mr. Cartledge. He -allowed Miss Marion was de flower of his flock. - -"Slaves lived in quarters, a stretch of small houses off from de White -House. Patrollers often come to search for stray slaves; wouldn't take -your word for it. They would search de house. If they ketch one widout a -pass, they whipped him. We got most our outside news Sunday at church. -When farm work was not pressing, we got all of Saturday to clean up -'round de houses, and wash and iron our clothes. - -"Everything lively at Christmas time, dances wid fiddles, pattin' and -stick rattlin', but when I jined de church, I quit dancin'. - -"After de war, a man came along on a red horse; he was dressed in a blue -uniform and told us we was free. De Yankees dat I 'members was not -gentlefolks. They stole everything they could take and de meanest thing -I ever see was shoats they half killed, cut off de hams, and left de -other parts quiverin' on de ground. - -"I married Mose Jackson, after freedom, and had a boy, Henry. Last I -heard, he was at Shelby, North Carolina. We had a daughter, Mary, she -married Eph Brown. She had ten chillun, many gran' chillun, they's my -great-gran' chillun. My mistress was a good Christian woman, she give me -a big supper when I was married. Her house, durin' de war, always had -some sick or wounded soldier. I 'member her brother, Zed, come home wid -a leg gone. Her cousin, Theodore, was dere wid a part of his jaw gone. -My mistress could play de piano and sing de old songs. I 'members -Marster Theodore had trouble wid de words. Dere was a song called -'Jaunita', 'bout a fountain. Marster Theodore would try hard, but would -say, everytime, 'Jawneeta', and de folks would laugh but mistress never -would crack a smile but just go on wid another song. I thinks everybody -should jine de church and then live right. Have prayers in de family -befo' gitting in de bed. It would have good change, 'specially in de -towns I thinks. - -"Yes, women in family way worked up to near de time, but guess Doctor -Gibson knowed his business. Just befo' de time, they was took out and -put in de cardin' and spinnin' rooms. - -"Yes, I see folks put irons in de fire and some throw a big chunk of -fire into de yard to make de screech owl stop his scary sounds. - -"Befo' I forgits, Marster Edward bought a slave in Tennessee just 'cause -he could play de fiddle. Named him 'Tennessee Ike' and he played 'long -wid Ben Murray, another fiddler. Sometime all of us would be called up -into de front yard to play and dance and sing for Miss Marion, de -chillun and visitors. I was much happier them days than now. Maybe it -won't be so bad when I gits my old age pension." - - - - -Cordelia Anderson Jackson - - - *Interview with Cordelia Anderson Jackson, 78 years old* - *157 Kings St. Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -Cordelia lives in a small shack with some friends. She is quite an actor -and a tireless teller of yarns. She still ties her head up in a white -rag and has large eyes set far apart and a very flat nose. She is ebony -colored. She is a firm believer in her religion and she enjoys shouting -on any occasion for joy or for sorrow. - -"White folks tells stories 'bout 'ligion. Dey tells stories 'bout it -kaise dey's 'fraid of it. I stays independent of what white folks tells -me when I shouts. De Spirit moves me every day, dat's how I stays in. -White folks don't feel sech as I does; so dey stays out. Can't serve God -all de time; allus something getting in de way. Dey tries me and den I -suddenly draps back to serving de Holy God. Never does it make no -difference how I's tossed about. Jesus, He comes and saves me everytime. -I's had a hard time, but I's blessed now--no mo' mountains. - -"Ever since I a child I is liked white folks. Dey's good and dey does -not know why dey tells stories 'bout Jesus. I got a heap mo' in slavery -dan I does now; was sorry when Freedom got here. I 'specks I is nigh to -a hundred, but dat's so old. I jest calls myself any whars twixt -seventy-five and a hundred. I recollects slavery, though. Ma was -Charlotte Anderson and she lived in Union County wid de Tuckers, jest -across from de Richards Quarter. - -"Biggest sight I ever see'd was dat balloon when it come down on Pea -Ridge. De man in it everybody addressed as Professor (Prof. Lowe--1861). -He let uncle Jerry git in it. Mr. McKissick helped uncle Jerry up in it. -It was de first balloon ever come to Union county, and 'til dis day I -don't like no balloons. - -"Airplanes jest tickles, I cannot tell you how come, but dey jest does. -I went out dar (throwing her arm in the direction of the landing field) -and see'd 'em light. Dressed-up white folks hopped down out'n it from a -little do' dat a man wid leg'uns and a cap on opened. Thing gwine on wid -lots of burring and all like dat. When dem folks got out, some mo' -clam'ned in. Dat same man opened de do', shot (shut) it, and de plane -tuck off. White folks 'lowed dat it was gwine to 'lanta, Ga. - -"Right dar I 'low'd, when I goes up like dat, I sho ain't gwine up wid -no man--I'se gwine up wid Jesus. - -"Dat white woman [HW: Amelia Earhardt] went up and ain't nobody found -her yet and it been two months. Lawd, she looking fer de world's end. -God don't mean fer womens to do nothing like dat. Womens is stumbling -blocks at times. - -"I got a boy dat been through school. He stays off, but he treats me so -good and talks to me like white folks does; so I calls him, 'white -child'. I 'longs to de church club. He tries to larn me to talk proper -when I goes out to dem meetings, but I fergits how befo' I reaches de -meeting. Us named it de 'Mothers' Club'. 'White child' pays fer me to -'long dar, and when I is down wid spells, dey nurses me. 'White child' -pays fer my 'onsurance' so dat I does not have no worriment to aggravate -my soul. - -"White child birthed one Sunday morning jest a year atter de big -earthquake. It was also Christmas morning, kaise my child drapped a year -to de day atter dat earthquake and I feared dat he was not gwinter have -no sense. But My God, how he can read! - -"One night, Aug. 30th, our house started rocking. We thought a panther -was a-rocking it, kaise my old man had see'd one. He run out wid a gun -and went to de wood pile; den he hollered to me and said, 'Delia, come -out here, de whole world is shaking'. God sho showed his power dat -night. Ever since dat I been fixed wid God. It won't long atter dat, us -heard a noise in our other room. Old man went in dar and see'd a panther -climbing up fer our rations. He grabbed his gun from over de do' and -shot dat panther in de corner. - -"I used to think dat niggers was fools dat called me a nigger. I go and -tell Miss Nellie Tucker. She 'low, 'No, you ain't no nigger when other -niggers calls you one.' Marse William whistle like a partridge; den Miss -Nellie play her pianny. I dance and Marse send fer me a sugar and butter -biscuit. Marse git his banjo and he pick it fer me to sing 'Oh, Bob -white, is your wheat ripe? No, no, not quite.' Dat when I lived as a -little gal on Marse William's home tract, called Musgrove Tract. - -VISION: "Was traveling in a gold chariot to Heaven. De overseer had come -to bleed me, but I went up. Something say to look back and see whar you -been. I looked back and said, 'Lawd, take me whar no rent won't bother -me!' Lawd answer, 'Do not pray dat way. Pray fer Him to do His will'. -Den I axed de Lawd whar is I. He say, 'Did you look down on dem -chimneys?' Den I see'd dat I was in de chariot wid water all under me. -It looked like de sky. - -"To-day, I am so glad to walk about in Jesus' care. I wish people could -see my faith. I am a Christian." - - - - -Agnes James - - - *Interview with Mom Agnes James, 80 years old* - *Claussens, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"Yes'um, I used to live in slavery time, but de Lord above know, I sho -don' really recollect nothin much to tell you 'bout slavery time. I don' -know exactly how old I is. Think I 'bout 80 some odd. Think dat 'bout de -age Bubba Gregg say I is. I tell you, I was so chillunfied in slavery -time, I ain' had no time to study 'bout no age. I say, I was so -chillunfied. Yes'um, dat it. Dat somethin dat I ought to had ax my -grandmammy 'bout how old I is, so den I might could call it up to you -right sharp. Oh, I wishes now I had ax my grandmammy dat word fore she -die. - -"Us belong to Mr. Hector Cameron fore freedom come here. Right down dere -to Salem Church, dat whe' I was born. You hear talk of Miss Janie Little -over dere to Marion, ain' you? Dat who used to be my mittie in dem days. -Yes, mam, boss had pick me out to tend to Miss Janie. You see, he give -all his daughters one of us to have a care for dem. - -"My white folks, dey had a right smart of colored people dey own en far -as I can reckon, dey been spend mighty good treatment to dem all de -time. I know 'bout old Miss used to love to feed us, my mercy! White -folks would send for all us chillun to go up to de big house en get -somethin to eat twixt meals. Yes'um, dey had a colored people quarter -dat been settin way back up on de hill. Had to have a quarter 'cause dat -whe' us been stay all de time old Miss won' stuffin' somethin down we -mouth. I remember, dere used to was de most pretty flowers in de lane -gwine through dem woods from us house right up to old Massa's yard en my -Lord, honey, I did love to be de first one long dere on a mornin to see -could I find a blossom to fetch to old Miss. Look like old Miss would be -so please to see my granny marchin all we chillun up dat path 'cause -when we would go dere on a mornin, she would set right down on de steps -en talk wid us. Would set dere in listen to see could all us say dat -prayin blessin she had learned us to speak fore she would hand us -anything to eat. Den she would give us everyone a spoonful of dis here -worm cure. Great Jerusalem! Miss would make dat herself out dese black -lookin seed mixed up in molasses. I remember, she would bring a big bowl -of dat out dere en would make Pickle tote it round for her while she put -it in us mouth. Yes, mam, Miss would give us all a spoonful of dat every -mornin en den she would ax us de next mornin if any us had any worms. -No, mam, she never didn' give us any other kind of medicine as I can -remember. Just give us dat en den feed us some milk en bread. Dat all -she give us, but I tell you, I was as proud of dat milk en bread as I is -of de rations I get dese days 'cause I never know no different den. -No'um, didn' nobody eat den like dey do now. All de people would make -dey own gardens in dem days en would fix soup en fry meat. I used to -been so glad to get me a 'tatoe en a piece of bread. I thought I was -eatin cake. - -"I never didn' work in no field or nothin like dat no time. When I was a -little small girl, I would stay dere home en play 'bout de yard en nurse -my mammy's baby while she was workin in de field. Yes'um, old Massa -would give her task to pick cotton en hoe cotton en pick peas or -somethin another like dat 'bout all de time. Don' know whe' she work all -day or no, but I know she would always let up at 12 o'clock en come to -de house to get her somethin to eat. Can remember dat good as anything. -Oh, she would have to cook herself when she come home bein' dere wasn' -none of we chillun big enough to cook nothin. I recollects, I used to -get chips en pile dem up for her 'cause she always been tell me, if de -baby go to sleep, to get up some chips en put dem on de steps for her to -hurry en start fire wid. She would cook us meat en bread like corn -hoecake en fry meat de most of de time. Den another time, she would bake -a big round loaf like dat en break it in two en give me half en my -brother Charlie de other part. Would lay a piece of meat on de top of -it. No'um, I reckon 'bout all de people used to cook in de chimney. I -know my mammy used to cook in de chimney en I don' think she thought -nothin 'bout no stove in dem days. Cose if she did, I know we chillun -didn' get it. - -"Yes, Lord, I been married 'bout 16 years fore my husband died. Yes'um, -I had a tolerable good size weddin over dere to Mr. Elija Gregg's house. -Been married in a white dress trimmed wid blue ribbon. You is hear talk -of a cream of tartar dress, ain' you? Oh, my Lord of mercy, dere was a -crowd of people dere dat night to get dey eye full en deyself full, too, -I say. Yes'um, I had four waiters in my ceremony. En had cake en rice en -'tatoe custard en a yearlin pig wid a red apple stuck in he mouth, so -dey tell me. Dat what was for de refreshments. De old man Charles -Reynolds, he was de preacher dere dat night en, say, he eat so much pig -till you could see pig in he face, so dey tell me. Cose I never had no -mind to know nothin 'bout it. Oh, yes Lord, I got seven chillun dat come -here fore my old man die, but dey all done gone en get married en left -me by myself. Dat how-come I stays over here wid Miss Bertie 'cause she -ain' have nobody to stay wid her neither en I tries to help her out -somehow. Yes'um, me en Miss Bertie does rest right well together, I say. - -"Oh, great jumpin mercy, de shake! I sho knows all 'bout dat 'cause I -was stayin right up dere to old man Elija Gregg's place den. I tellin -you, it was a time, honey. I was gwine down side de road to prayer -meetin dat night wid my baby in my arms en dere come such a roarin' en a -rockin' in de elements till I thought my baby had got out my arms en I -was just a hollerin for somebody to come en help me get my baby back. -Been so crazy dat I was lookin in all de ditches for my baby. My -husband, he come a runnin to see what ailed me en say, 'Agnes, what de -matter wid you?' I say, 'My baby lost. Do Lord, whe' my baby gone?' He -say, 'Agnes, you must be ailin in de head. Dere de baby on your arm.' -Yes'um, I was crazy 'cause I had my baby in my arms en didn' know it. -Oh, de people done a piece of hollerin dat night. Everybody was a -hollerin en a prayin. I hear talk three or four of dem got converted in -de spirit dat night. I tellin you, it been a long time fore I got over -dat thing, too, 'cause I was scared most to death. - -"No'um, I never didn' believe in nothin like dat. Never didn' believe in -no conjurin. Don' care what dey say 'bout it, I never didn' believe in -it. Yes'um, I hear people talk 'bout somebody had hurt dem, but dey make -a wrong mistake to say somebody do somethin to dem. Ain' nobody but de -Lord do nothin, I say. I know dere ain' nobody never do nothin to me. -Hear people say dey wear money round dey ankle to keep folks from hurtin -dem, but ain' nobody never bother me, I tell dem. If dey live right, -ain' nobody gwine trouble dem neither. No, Lord, ain' nobody never speak -no harm word to me en I ain' got no mind to harness up myself. - -"Well, it just seems like de world growin wilder for de young folks. Dey -don' never think 'bout nothin 'cept gwine right head first all de time. -I know when I been comin up, I never see no such livin like de people -makin dese days. Dey just gwine head over heels to de worser. Don' never -think near a day dey got to stop some of dese days. - -"I tell de truth, it ain' make no difference which time I think de best -time to live in. Everything went well en good wid me in de old days en -everything still gwine dat way, Thank de Lord, too." - - - - -Fred James - - - *Interview with Fred James (81)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"Yes, I 'member slavery time and de war. I was about 7 or 8 years old. I -belonged to Marse Tom Price. My father, John James, belonged to Madison -Brooks and my mammy belonged to Tom Price. When dey married dey lived -wid Madison Brooks awhile, but dey was wid Tom Price when I was a boy. - -"Of cose I 'member de war. Us chaps, both niggers and white, was made to -go up-stairs in de big house and look out de window to see de soldiers -when dey come. We heard de Yankees marching befo' dey got dar, but dey -come from de other side of de house, facing south towards Caldwells, and -we didn't see dem marching in. Dey stopped at our house and looked -around and asked if marster was at home. We told him dat he wasn't dar. -We was eating apples, and dey asked us whar we got 'em. We told dem dat -we got de apples on de place, and dey asked us for some. We give dem -some apples; den dey left. Marse had carried his fine stock about a mile -off in de woods so de soldiers couldn't find dem; but we didn't tell de -soldiers. - -"We lived in a little log cabin made wid mud between de logs, dat was de -kind of houses Marse had for his slaves. We slept on wood beds wid ropes -stretched tight across in place of slats. Dis held our straw mattress. - -"My father's daddy come from Africa. His name was Emmanuel James. Atter -freedom come he give me a little yearling. We wasn't allowed to have -anything befo' freedom come; and we wasn't allowed to learn to read and -write. Dey whipped us if dey caught us wid a book trying to read or -write. Ma said dey cut off a hand if dey caught you. - -"We raised hogs, sheep, goats, cows and plenty chickens; raised -everything at home, and had a good garden with plenty vegetables. Dem -cows and hogs and other cattle were branded and allowed to graze around -in bottoms of de lowlands whar dar was no fence. - -"My clothes was made from yarn spun by my mammy, and she made my -clothes, too. Marse had my mammy to spin and weave for all de slaves on -de place. But marse and mistress was good to us. He had a nigger -overseer who sometimes brought a nigger to marse when he misbehaved; den -marse would have de nigger overseer to whip him. He had 8 to 10 slaves -all de time. - -"Some slaves dat lived on places close to us would run off sometimes and -hide in de woods, and live dar in a den which dey dug. At night they -would go out and hunt food, like hogs; den kill 'em at night and dress -'em. Most of de day dey would stay in de den. - -"I 'member when freedom come, old marse said, 'You is all free, but you -can work on and make dis crop of corn and cotton; den I will divide up -wid you when Christmas comes.' Dey all worked, and when Christmas come, -marse told us we could get on and shuffle for ourselves, and he didn't -give us anything. We had to steal corn out of de crib. We prized de ears -out between de cracks and took dem home and parched dem. We would have -to eat on dese for several days. - -"We had to work, all day, sun up to dark, and never had Saturday -afternoons off anytime. My mammy had to wash clothes on Saturday nights -for us to wear on Sundays. - -"We chaps played marbles most all de time. Marse used to try to scare us -by telling us dar was spooks. Some of de old folks did believe in -spooks, but I don't know much about dem. We never used much medicine den -but quinine. Folks had lots of chills den, but dey never had any kind of -strokes or things like dat as dey do dese days. - -"We had to get a pass from marse if we went out. If de patrollers caught -us widout a pass dey would whip us. - -"Right atter de war de Ku Klux started. I 'member dem when dey would -march up and down de road. Dey marched most at night, and we could hear -de horses for a long distance as deir feet struck de ground. - -"I married Nellie Wilson, and had 12 children. I got now 6 children; my -wife is dead. I got five grandchildren and eight great-grandchildren. - -"I think Abraham Lincoln and Jeff Davis was good men in deir way, as dey -thought. Booker T. Washington is a great man, and he is done lots of -good for de niggers. I think slavery was good in some ways and bad in -others. I was better off den dan I am now. - -"I jined de church when I was 20 years old, because it was de law--to -trust in de Lawd, you got to belong to de church. - -"I member something 'bout 40 acres of land and a mule dat de slaves -would get, but never come anything about it. When freedom come most of -de slaves hired out as wage hands, cutting wood and working on farms or -any odd jobs dey could get. Dar was lots of new ground, and many of de -niggers got work clearing it up. - -"We didn't get any money in slavery time, but got plenty to eat; and -atter de war, we got a little money and a little to eat. I 'member dat -old Mr. Brown hired me out once about 45 years ago at 30c a day and my -meals. I think de younger generation ain't so good. Dey have deir own -way and don't respect old folks. Dat's de way it is wid both whites and -blacks." - - - - -Isiah Jeffries - - - *Interview with Isiah Jefferies, (age 86)* - *Gaffney, S.C. Rt. 6.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I is what is known as a outside child. My Ma went to Hamlet. I lived on -de Jefferies plantation, below Wilkinsville in Cherokee County. My -father was Henry Jefferies. My mother was Jane Jefferies. My mother's -husband was named Ned. Before her marriage she was a Davis. She was sold -in slavery to Henry Jefferies. I allus lived with my mother, and Ned was -as good to me as he was to his own chillun. My mother had three outside -chilluns, and we each had a different father. Atter she married Ned; den -he jest come to be our Pa, dat is he let her give us his name. She and -Ned had four chillun. - -"My first wife is dead and my second wife is named Alice Jefferies. I -got one child by my first wife, and I ain't got no outside chilluns. Dat -works out bad, at best. None of my folks is living. All of dem is done -dead now; jest me, my wife and my sister's daughter, Emma, who is grown -now. Her Pa and her Ma took and went crazy befo' dey died. Both of dem -died in de asylum. We took Emma, and she ain't jest 'zactly right; but -she ain't no bother to us. - -"First thing I had to do as a child was to mind my Ma's other chilluns -as I was de first outside one dat she had. Dis I did until I was about -twelve years old. My Ma and Ned was working one day and I was minding -her chilluns as usual when I looked up and seed de top of our house on -fire. I hollered and dey come running from de field. De other hands come -with dem kaise I made such a noise hollering. Soon de big folks got de -fire out. Atter dat, Marse Henry had me to leave de house and go to work -fer him. - -"It was spring and I started in chopping cotton. 'Peers dat I got on -pretty well, and dat de overseer liked me from de start. From dar on I -was broke into field work of all kinds and den I did work around de lot -as well. It was not long befo' everybody started calling me 'uncle -Zery', why--I did not know; but anyway dat name still sticks to me by -dem dat knows me well. My grandpa never called me dat, kaise I was named -atter him, and he too proud of dat fact to call me any nickname. I -stayed wid him at his house lots atter I started working fer de marster, -kaise he showed me how to do things. I worked fer him to git my first -money and he would give me a quarter fer a whole day's work. Dat made me -feel good and I thought I was a man kaise I made a quarter. In dem days -a quarter was a lot of money. I spent it fer chawing tobacco, and dat -made me sick at first. Dats all men had to spend money fer in dem days. -Everything was give you on de plantation and you did not need much -money. Sometimes we cooked out in de field and I have cooked bread in de -field in a lid. - -"Ma teached me how to cook befo' I was twelve years old. We had good -things to eat den; more dan my chilluns has dese times. All de slaves -had dere gardens on my marster's plantation. He made dem do it, and dey -liked it. Niggers do not seem to take no pains wid gardens now. Land -ain't soft and mellow like it used to be. In cold weather we had to bank -out 'taters, rutabegas, beets, carrots and pumpkins. De pumpkins and -carrots was fer de hogs and cows. - -"In warm weather we had cotton clothes and in cold weather we had woolen -clothes dat our marster had made fer us by de old ladies on de -plantation. But we did go barefooted all winter until we was grown and -married. We had all de wood we wanted fer fire. We kept fire all day and -all night. We sot by de fire in winter and popped corn, parched pinders -[HW: peanuts] and roasted corn ears. - -"Marster and Mistress had six chilluns. Her name was Ellen and her house -was three stories high. Dere overseers allus lived wid dem. Dere was a -lot of slaves and dey all loved de white folks. De whole plantation was -allus up at sunup. But we did not work very late. I remember de -Patter-rollers, de Ku Klux and de Yankees. Niggers dreaded all three. -Dere was no jail fer us; de Patter-rollers kept us straight. - -"When I got to be a big boy, my Ma got religion at de Camp meeting at -El-Bethel. She shouted and sung fer three days, going all over de -plantation and de neighboring ones, inviting her friends to come to see -her baptized and shouting and praying fer dem. She went around to all de -people dat she had done wrong and begged dere forgiveness. She sent fer -dem dat had wronged her, and told dem dat she was born again and a new -woman, and dat she would forgive dem. She wanted everybody dat was not -saved to go up wid her. - -"De white folks was baptized in de pool first, and den dere darkies. -When de darkies time come, dey sung and shouted so loud dat de -Patter-rollers come from somewhar, but Marster and Missus made dem go -away and let us shout and rejoice to de fullest. Missus had all her -darkies to wear white calico in de pool dat was a-gwine in fer -baptizing. In de sewing-room she had calico robes made fer everybody. My -Ma took me wid her to see her baptized, and I was so happy dat I sung -and shouted wid her. All de niggers jined in singing. De white folks -stayed and saw us baptize our folks, and dey liked our singing." - - - - -Thomas Jefferson - - - *Interview with Thomas Jefferson, 102 years old* - *Shiloh Church, Highway 29* - --_Ellie S. Rice, Anderson, S.C._ - -It is not often that a person 102 years old is seen doing manual labor, -and especially as hard a job as picking cotton. Yet that is just what -Thomas Jefferson was doing, who, as he himself stated, is, "102 years -and 18 days old today." Asked why he was doing this, he replied, "Just -to take a little exercise." - -Thomas lives with his daughter, Florence Humphreys, on a small farm, out -near Shiloh Church, on Highway 29. Until recently, he slept in a little -shack nearby, taking his meals with his daughter. He is too feeble to -live alone now, however. - -Thomas Jefferson was born on the farm of Mr. Jenkins Hammond, on the old -Hammond place, out on the Williamston road, on November 1, 1834. When -Mr. Hammond's daughter, Mary Amanda Pauline, married Elias John Earle, -son of Samuel Girard Earle, who was one of the very first citizens of -Anderson county, Mr. Hammond gave her, as a wedding gift, Thomas -Jefferson's mother and five children, of which Thomas was one. And here -he lived with the Earles on "Evergreen" plantation, for many, many -years. - -During the War Between the States, Mr. Earle operated a corn and flour -mill, and Thomas Jefferson was his miller. Asked if he remembered this, -he replied, "Well, I do remember it. I remember one time we worked all -night Saturday night, all day Sunday and Sunday night, and Monday -morning had ten barrels of flour to send the Confederate army." - -Shiloh (Baptist) Church, nearby, Thomas said, was being constructed at -the time the war started, and was not finished until after the war was -over. The first person buried in the Shiloh graveyard was Elijah -Herring, who was in the Confederate army and became ill and died, and -was brought home to be buried. - -When Samuel Girard Earle died in 1848, and his wife in 1865, they were -buried under a large apple tree at "Evergreen" plantation. Later, their -bodies were removed to the Shiloh graveyard, by their grand-daughter, -Miss Betty Earle. Thomas says he helped to move and rebury the bodies. - -Thomas was at one time a member of Shiloh, but is now a member of the -Mt. Sinai colored church. - -Thomas is remarkably well for a person one hundred and two years old. -His eyes are dim, his steps tottering, but his hearing is good and his -mind is as clear as it ever was. Asked about his appetite, he said, "I -eat anything I can get, I can eat anything." Many people much younger -than he is, and certainly with more money than he has, would envy him -for his splendid digestion. - -Thomas has been on the relief rolls now for several years. It is a -peculiar pleasure for Mrs. A.M. Mitchell, County Director of Temporary -State Department of Public Welfare, to look after Thomas personally, -because her grandmother was the bride to whom he was given, with his -mother and brothers and sisters. The old man eagerly anticipates Mrs. -Mitchell's coming each month, to bring his check and to look after his -comfort. He is very humble and exceedingly grateful for everything done -for him, and says he is expecting to live many more years, with the good -care he is getting. - - - - -Henry D. Jenkins - - - *Interview with Henry D. Jenkins, 87 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Henry D. Jenkins lives in a four-room frame house, which he owns. His -wife, two single daughters, his son and his son's wife and three small -children live with him. The house is constructed on a tract of land -containing four hundred and eighty (480) acres, which Henry also owns. - -He does not suffer with an inferiority complex. He is self-reliant and -thrifty, with a pardonable pride in his farm and his rise from slavery -to a position of respectibility as a church member, citizen, and tax -payer. He is well preserved physically, for his age, 87 years, alert in -his movements and animated in conversation. - -His plantation and home is in the south western part of Fairfield -County, six or seven hundred yards east of State highway #215. - -"Yes sir, tho' I am a 'spectable colored citizen, as you see me; I pays -taxes and owns my own plantation. I was once a slave on de Reese place, -in Sumter County, below Columbia. Just when I come to b'long to Mr. -Joseph Howell, I don't know. I recollects dat Marse Joe had 'bout twenty -families of slaves and dere was six hundred acres in his plantation. - -"My mistress was his wife, Miss Sara. They had four chillun. Miss -Mattie, married Oscar Chappell. Johnnie, married a Miss Lever. Thomas, -married some lady in Columbia, disremember de fam'ly name. Miss Jessie, -married Rev. Huggins, a Baptist preacher, though her folks wasn't of dat -'suasion; they was Methodist. Us niggers was 'structed early in 'ligion. -Took to Cedar Creek and camp meetin'. My white folks had a fine -carriage. A mulatto boy, Adam, was de driver. Sometime I'd go wid him to -meet visitors from de low country at de station, and look after de -baggage and sich. - -"Yes sir, I doesn't deny it, I got many whuppins. Dere's not much to a -boy, white or black, dat don't need a whuppin' sometime on de way up. -When you break a wild spirited colt, they make de best hoss or mule. I -can do more work today, than most of dese triflin', cigaret young mens. -You sees me today, as straight as a arrow and like a wild cat on my -foots. - -"You bet yo' life, my white folks was de bestest in de land. They wasn't -mealy mouthed; they made everybody work, sun to sun, seven days in de -week. But didn't de good Lord set de 'zample? Yes sir, he made us all -work, women in de perils of child birth, drapped cotton seed and corn -kernels. Dr. Turnipseed, dat was our doctor, 'low dat light labor lak -dat good for them. - -"Farm hands got a peck of meal, three pounds bacon, quart of 'lasses, -cup of salt, and two cups middlin' flour, no white flour. Had good warm -clothes in winter, one-piece cotton suit in summer, and de little -niggers went dressed in deir shirt tails from fust of June, to fust of -October. They sho' did, and was as happy over it as de day was long. - -"My mother named Emma. Never married to my daddy, 'cause they didn't -live on de same place and b'long to same master. Daddy b'long to de -Halls. I have a brother by dis same mammy. Daddy go by de name of -Dinkins. He took up wid another woman after freedom, and my brother and -me was 'shame of him. Us 'cided to take Jenkins for our name but keep a -'D' in de middle, so if anything come up, de 'D' could 'cite 'membrance -of who us really is. You see what I mean? - -"Our shoes for de winter was made on de place, out of leather from our -own tan-yard and from our own cow hides. Marster had a good fish pond. -He had a four-hoss gin, though mules pulled it. De lint cotton was -packed in a bale and a screw pit. Baggin' was any old thing, like old -sacks or canvas sheetin'. - -"My mother jined de Baptis' church, and I followed in her foot steps. -Everybody ought to b'long to some church, 'cause it's 'spectable, and -membership in de church is both a fire and a life insurance. It 'sures -you 'ginst hell fire, and gives you at death, an eternal estate in -Hebben. What you laughin' at? It's de gospel truth I'm givin' you right -now. Wish everybody could hear it and believe it. - -"My marster, Joe Howell, went off to de old war. His niggers was so well -trained, dat they carried on for him whilst he was gone and dere was no -trouble. Everything went on just de same as if he was dere. - -"Pat-a-rollers (patrollers) would come often and ketch niggers sometime; -caught my daddy once and whup him good. Ours was a fine body of slaves -and loyal to de mistress and her chillun. - -"Dances? Yes sir, I can hear them fiddles and de pattin' now. Dis de way -de dance was called: 'Balance all; sashshay to your partners; swing her -'round and promenade all; forward on de head; ladies change;' and all -dat. Then de jigs went on. Believe me, them was times! - -"The main drawback on Marster Joe's plantation was, de water on de place -was no 'count. Us had to haul water on a sled, wid a mule, from de -Friday place; dat's de onliest trouble us had. Sometime us had to tie up -fodder and 'tend to de hay in de field on Sunday. - -"I married fust a girl name Sarah, in 1878. Got three chillun by her. -She died. Not good for a man to live alone, de Lord say. I picked out -another Sarah, but called her Sallie. Us has had nine chillun. Three of -dese [TR: are] Sailor, Tera, and Monroe. Monroe lives on my place and -farms 'long side of me. Sam is in Detroit, Michigan; Henry in Flurida -(Florida). - -"When de Yankees come, what they do? They did them things they ought not -to have done and they left undone de things they ought to have done. -Yes, dat just 'bout tells it. One thing you might like to hear. Mistress -got all de money, de silver, de gold and de jewels, and got de well -digger to hide them in de bottom of de well. Them Yankees smart. When -they got dere, they asked for de ve'y things at de bottom of de well. -Mistress wouldn't tell. They held a court of 'quiry in de yard; called -slaves up, one by one, good many. Must have been a Judas 'mongst us. -Soon a Yankee was let down in de well, and all dat money, silver, gold, -jewelry, watches, rings, brooches, knives and forks, butter-dishes, -waters, goblets, and cups was took and carried 'way by a army dat seemed -more concerned 'bout stealin', than they was 'bout de Holy War for de -liberation of de poor African slave people. They took off all de hosses, -sheeps, cows, chickens, and geese, took de seine and de fishes they -caught, corn in crib, meat in smoke house, and everything. Marse General -Sherman said war was hell. It sho' was. Mebbe it was hell for some of -them Yankees when they come to die and give account of de deeds they -done in Sumter and Richland Counties." - - - - -Maria Jenkins - - - *Interview with Maria Jenkins, about 90 years old* - *64 Montague Street, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C._ - -Maria Jenkins, who is about ninety, is very nearly blind, and only by -quiet persistence can she be made to hear; once started, her mind is -clear. She shows no bitterness. Occasionally there are flashes of humor. -Her body is brawny, sturdy and well carried, considering her age. - -Maria Jenkins was a daughter of Aaron Grant; her mother's name is Ellen -Grant, all of whom were owned by Mr. Hugh Wilson of Wadmalaw Island. - -"I b'long Wadmalaw. When de Yankee come I ole 'nuf for mind chillun, and -take um to de field. I go up to Maussa' house ebery day for de milk for -we; and dey give we clabba (clabber) and cow peas and ting out de -garden. We git ebery evening a bushel ob corn grind and hand ober to de -nurse, and him sift out de flour. Yes Mam. He done grind in de hand mill -in de barn yard--de stone mill. Dat been uh big mill too. And dey gib we -uh big piece ob meat--so--(measuring with hands) and sometime chicken. -Rachel cook in de big pot for we chillun, and he dip um out. (She here -explained the big ladle or dipper.) You know dem big ladle. We put um in -we pan. Yes, Ma'am, he name Rachel, and he lick we. We haffa love um or -she lick we." Her huge mouth was illumined by a humorous smile. - -"He teach me to wash de baby clean and put on he dipa (diaper), and if I -ain't do um good he konk my head. When de wah come, my pa put heself -free off to New Orleans; I dunno how he look. I dunno if he libbin or -dead now. My ma dead fust year ob de wah, I hab twelve chillun, and all -dead; I got two grand chillun left--de one in New York--I raise him from -baby atter he ma and pa dead." - -"Your grand son helps you?" - -"Wat dat?", leaning forward with her hand back of her ear. The question -was repeated. - -"Him ain't no man, him my grand daughter, Ellen Jenkins. I raise him -from baby yes, she name Ellen. Him good to me; him help me ebery -minute." - -"Are all your people dead?" - -"De whole nation dead," reflectively, "De whole nation dead--Peggy -dead--Toby dead--all leaning on de Lord." - -"When dem boat come up de ribber, and he shoot, and shoot, de big gun, -dat been de awful time. My ma dead de fust year ob de wah--I dunno if -dem big gun kill um. He kill 'nuf people. - -"Maussa come and he say: 'Who-na (all of you) nigger take care ob -yourself, I must leab to take my fambly away. Will is here; and de cow, -and de pig in de pen, and de chicken all ober de place--I gib you your -freedom for take care ob yourself.' W'en he gone, dem nigger break for -the thick woods. Some dead and some ain't dead." - -Later a camp was established for this plantation of Negroes, back in the -pine woods. When asked what they did after the war, Maria raised her -hands and said: - -"After de wah we all come home, tank de Lord! tank de Lord!" - -"But your master didn't have any money to care for you." - -"Haffa scrabble for yo'self." Said she. - - - - -Paul Jenkins - - - *Interview with Paul Jenkins, 70 years old* - *18 Belser's Alley, Columbia, S.C.* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -_SON OF A SLAVE TELLS OF HIS FATHER'S POLITICAL EXPERIENCES_ - -Paul Jenkins, age seventy, living at 18 Belser's Alley, Columbia, S.C., -is a son of Paul Jenkins, a former slave, who decided to endure the -burdens he had in Colleton County, South Carolina, after he was set free -in 1865, rather than to fly to other places he knew nothing of. There he -won the respect of the white folks and Negroes alike, was repeatedly -elected to office, and lived there happily to the end of his life. - -Here the present Paul Jenkins takes up the story, with: - -"I was born in Colleton County in 1867. My daddy was in office when I -begin to recall things, and he keep in office, by the will of the -people, until I was nearly grown. My mammy, too, was a slave, when she -and daddy marry. She die when I was 'bout twelve years old, and my only -brother, Edgar, was goin' on ten. My daddy never marry again. - -"One day some white men come to see daddy long after mammy was gone, and -they say to daddy: 'Paul, when you gwine to jump the broomstick again?' -My daddy was the only one who not laugh when they say that. He reply: 'I -has no women in view and no weddin' dream in the back of my head. I has -decided a wicked woman am a big bother and a good woman am a bore. To my -way of thinkin', that is the only difference between them.' The white -folks not smile, but say: 'You'll see! Just wait 'til the right girl -come along.' - -"Daddy just seem to make friends of all the people 'bout him, and our -house, close to Smoak, was a big meetin' place most of the time. -Sometimes the visitors are all white men. But at other days the niggers -come and talk, tell funny tales, and laugh. Most of the meetin's at the -house was late at night, 'cause my daddy always go to his office at -Walterboro, on week days. People comin' and goin' there, all the time. -Daddy was sho' popular with the people, generally speakin'. - -"The biggest crowd I ever seen up to that time, was when General M.C. -Butler come to Walterboro in 1882, to speak. He had been United States -Senator since 1876, and was a candidate for re-election. General Butler -much pleased, that day, when many white leaders and daddy call at his -hotel and tell him that daddy had been asked by his neighbors to -introduce him. He say: 'Well, from what I hears, Paul Jenkins can do -that job as well as anybody in the State.' Then he pat daddy on the -shoulder. - -"At the speakin', daddy gets up, and the big crowd claps its hands for -joy, and laughs, too. Daddy not laugh much, just smile. Then he throw -back his shoulders and say: - - General Butler, lak Moses, led us forth at last, - The barren wilderness he pass'd - Did on the very border stand - Of the bless'd Promise Land, - And from the misty mountain tops of his exalted wit, - Saw it himself and showed us it! - -"'That's why we am sendin' him back----'. That was all I hear. Daddy not -allowed to finish. The people riot with pleasure, and General Butler say -the tribute am de finest he ever hear, and smile at daddy sittin' there -on the platform with the other big folks. At another time, daddy has a -nigger lawyer runnin' 'gainst him for County Commissioner. The lawyer's -name was Amphibious McIver. They begin the campaign at Cottageville. -McIver speak first. Daddy follow, and begin with: - - A bullfrog tied by its tail to a stump, - It rear and it croak, but it couldn't make a jump! - -"The white folks and the niggers clap, stamp, throw hats, and laugh; -finally, marchin' up to the table to grab daddy and carry him up the -street on their shoulders. He keep sayin': 'Boys, why don't you let me -finish my speech?' They would laugh and say: 'Paul, you done made de -best speech in de world!' Daddy win at the 'lection, in a big way. - -"My daddy learn to read, write, and cipher while he was a slave. The -Jenkins family help him, he say, 'cause he always keep the peace, and -work as he was told to do. When he's set free, that white family help -him get settled and loaned him books. He go to Charleston 'bout 1868 and -buy an armful of books and studied at night or whenever he had the -chance. That is why he was able to make the political races which he -make and profit by. He send me and my brother, Edgar, to school, so that -we learn a good deal in books. Edgar, he fidgitty lak, and decide he go -to Pennsylvania and make a fortune! - -"Edgar got work in a steel mill at Johnstown, soon after he got there, -and had considerable money, when he was sent to the hospital with -pneumonia. He pull through that sickness and go back to his job, but the -big flood come (May 31, 1889) and the girl he was to marry was among the -2,000 unknown people who was drowned, and he never has married--peculiar -lak our daddy, don't you think? I just been married to one. She is 68 -and I's 70 and I may say we's through, too! - -"I specialized on bridge-buildin'. I has helped build a sight of bridges -in my time, travelin' as far as Memphis, Tenn., in that work. I has made -oodles of money, but my dollars always has wings and, one way or the -other, they get away from me. Still me and my old woman not sufferin' -much and we hopes, when we goes away for good, we goes together." - - - - -Emma Jeter - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Emma Jeter* - *21 Long Twelve, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Lordy, Honey, I sho was born in slavery and I is proud o' it too. Ole -Marse Cole Lawson was my ole marster. When I axed him how old I was, he -allus 'lowed something like dis, 'you is older than you is good', and -dat all he ever said 'bout my age. Sweet Dreams (her grand daughter), -come here and fetch me a drink from de well to wet my mouth! My -grand-daughter stay wid me at night. When she doan stay, some o' de -other grand uns stays. Sometime it's jest me and Sago here all alone. I -jes' sets and looks at him at night while he sleep. He work de rich -white folks' flower yards fer 'em, and dat brings him in at night real -tired. My grand-daughter's real name is Marguerite Porter, but nobody -don't hardly know dat; kaise everybody call her Sweet Dream, her lil -baby name. She my oldest daughter's fifth chile. My feelings tells me I -is ole, and my white folks 'll tell you I was born in slavery, 'cept dey -is all dead. - -"Light furs' struck me on de large plantation o' Ole Marse Cole Lawson, -de paw o' Mr. Victor Lawson. Mr. Victor ain't no spring chicken no mo' -hisself. Dat over in Sedalia in de Minter Section. You kno's 'bout de -large plantation o' Marse James E. Minter, dat gib de section its name? -(CHS show boundaries of Minter lands). Way back over dar whar I was -born. - -"Paw stay in Union County. Maw was sold to a man name Marse Bailey Suber -over in Fairfield, while I still a suckling. At dat time, my paw was -bought by a widder woman, Miss Sarah Barnett, in Union Cnty. Lawd Jesus! -Dat separate my maw and paw. Maw tuck me 'long wid her. Maw name Clara -Sims. When Me and maw went to Fairfield, us didn't stay dar long 'fo ole -man Harrison Sartor of Santuck, bought my maw. Us glad to git back to -Union. I was a big size gal by dis time and I start to be de waiting gal -in my new Marse's house fer his wife, Miss Betsy. Miss Betsy had one -sister, Miss Nancy Wilson, dat live wid her. Her missus and old Marster -and dere son, Willie, was all dat I had to wait on, kaise dat was all -dar was in de household. - -"God-A-Mighty! Is you gwine to fill up dat book wid all dat I says? -Well, Marse Harrison didn't 'low paw to see maw 'cept twice a -year--laying-by time and Christmas. My paw still 'longed to Miss Sarah -Barnett. Dat's 'zactly why I is got five half-sisters and one-half -brother. Paw got him another wife at Miss Sarah's. Miss Sarah want young -healthy slaves. Maw had jes' me and Ann. Ann been daed, Oh, Lord, forty -years. Dis all to my recollections. - -"Is you gwine to fix fer me and Sago to git some pension? Gawd naw, some -dese lil babies whats 'er sucking de maw's titties is gwine to git dat -pension. Us all gwine to be daed 'fo it even come out. You ain't gwine -to even sho' dat to no Gov'ment man; no Lawd, ain't never thought I's -gwine to git it. - -"Yes, Honey, I was in Fairfield den, but I 'members when crowds o' men -come in from de war. All us chilluns seed mens coming and us run and -tuck off fas' as us could fer de nearest woods, kaise us wuz dat scared, -dat dem mens gwine to git us. Atter dat, us found out dey was our own -folks. Us had done tuck and run from dem den. - -"Chile, you come back when Sago here, and us tell you dat book full, sho -nuff." - - - - -Adeline Hall Johnson - - - *Interview with Adeline Hall Johnson, 93 Years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Adeline Hall's husband was Tom Johnson but she prefers to be called -"Hall", the name of her old master. Adeline lives with her daughter, -Emma, and Emma's six children, about ten miles southeast of Winnsboro, -S.C., in a three-room frame house on the Durham place, a plantation -owned by Mr. A.M. Owens of Winnsboro. The plantation contains 1,500 -acres, populated by over sixty Negroes, run as a diversified farm, under -the supervision of a white overseer in the employ of Mr. Owens. - -The wide expanse of cotton and corn fields, the large number of dusky -Negro laborers working along side by side in the fields and singing -Negro spirituals as they work, give a fair presentation or picture of -what slavery was like on a well conducted Southern plantation before the -Civil War. Adeline fits into this picture as the old Negro "Mauma" of -the plantation, respected by all, white and black, and tenderly cared -for. She has her clay pipe and stick ever with and about her. There is a -spacious pocket in her dress underneath an apron. In that pocket is a -miscellany of broken pieces of china, crumbs of tobacco, a biscuit, a -bit of wire, numerous strings of various colors, and from time to time -the pipe becomes the warm individual member of the varied assortment. - -Her eyes are bright and undimmed by age and the vigor with which she can -telegraph her wants to the household by the rappings of that stick on -the plank floor is interesting and amusing. - -She is confident that she will round out a century of years, because: -"Marse Arthur Owens done tell me I'll live to be a hundred, if I stay on -his place and never 'lope away wid any strange young buck nigger. - -"I's not so feeble as I might 'pear, white folks. Long time I suffer for -sight, but dese last years I see just as good as I ever did. Dats a -blessin' from de Lord! - -"Who I b'long to in slavery time? Where I born? I born on what is now -called de Jesse Gladden place but it all b'long to my old marster, -William Hall, then. - -"My old marster was one of de richest man in de world. Him have lands in -Chester and Fairfield counties, Georgia and Florida, and one place on de -Red River in Arkansas. He also had a plantation, to raise brown suger -on, in old Louisiana. Then him and his brudder, Daniel, built and give -Bethesda Church, dats standin' yet, to de white Methodis' of Mitford, -for them to 'tend and worship at. He 'membered de Lord, you see, in all -his ways and de Lord guide his steps. - -"I never have to do no field work; just stayed 'round de house and wait -on de mistress, and de chillun. I was whupped just one time. Dat was for -markin' de mantel-piece wid a dead coal of fire. They make mammy do de -lashin'. Hadn't hit me three licks befo' Miss Dorcas, Miss Jemima, Miss -Julia, and Marse Johnnie run dere, ketch de switch, and say: 'Dat enough -Mauma Ann! Addie won't do it agin'. Dats all de beatin' I ever 'ceived -in slavery time. - -"Now does you wanna know what I do when I was a child, from de time I -git up in de mornin' to de time I go to bed? I was 'bout raised up in de -house. Well, in de evenin', I fill them boxes wid chips and fat -splinters. When mornin' come, I go in dere and make a fire for my young -mistresses to git up by. I help dress them and comb deir hair. Then I -goes down stairs and put flowers on de breakfas' table and lay de Bible -by Marse William's chair. Then I bring in de breakfas'. (Table have to -be set de night befo') When everything was on de table, I ring de bell. -White folks come down and I wait on de table. - -"After de meal finish, Marse William read de Bible and pray. I clear de -table and help wash de dishes. When dat finish, I cleans up de rooms. -Then I acts as maid and waitress at dinner and supper. I warms up de -girls' room, where they sleep, after supper. Then go home to poppy John -and Mauma Anne. Dat was a happy time, wid happy days! - -"Dat was a happy family. Marse William have no trouble, 'cept once when -him brudder, Daniel, come over one mornin' and closet wid Marse William. -When Marse Daniel go, Marse William come in dere where me and de -mistress was and say: 'Tom's run away from school'. (Dats one of Marse -Daniel's boys dat 'tended school at Mt. Zion, in Winnsboro) Her 'low: -'What him run away for?' 'Had a fool duel wid a Caldwell boy,' him say. -I hear no more 'bout dat 'til Marse Tom come home and then I hear -plenty. White folks been laughin' 'bout it ever since. Special talk -'bout it since Marse Tom's grandson b'come a United State Judge. Bet -Marse Dan Hall told you 'bout it. Want me to go ahead and tell you it my -way? Well, 'twas dis a way: Marse Tom and Marse Joe Caldwell fell out -'bout a piece of soap when they was roomin' together at school. Boys -crowd 'round them and say: 'Fight it out!' They hit a lick or two, and -was parted. Then de older boys say dere must be a duel. Marse Joe git -seconds. Marse Tom git seconds. They load guns wid powder but put no -bullets in them. Tell Marse Joe 'bout it but don't tell Marse Tom. Then -they go down town, fix up a bag of pokeberry juice, and have it inside -Marse Joe's westcoat, on his breast. Took them out in a field, face -them, and say: 'One, two, three, fire!' Guns went off, Marse Joe slap -his hand on his chest, and de bag bust. Red juice run all over him. -Older boys say: 'Run Tom and git out de way.' Marse Tom never stop 'til -him git to Liverpool, England. Marse William and Marse Daniel find him -dere, sent money for to fetch him home and him laugh 'bout it when he -git back. Yes sir, dat is de grandpappy of Marse Lyle Glenn, a big judge -right now. - -"De white folks near, was de Mellichamps, de Gladdens, de Mobleys, -Lumpkins, Boulwares, Fords, Picketts, and Johnsons. - -"When de Yankees come, they was struck dumb wid de way marster acted. -They took things, wid a beg your pardon kind of way, but they never -burnt a single thing, and went off wid deir tails twixt deir legs, kinda -'shame lak. - -"After freedom I marry a preacher, Tom Johnson. Him die when in his -sixties, thirty years ago. Our chillun was Emma, Mansell, Tom, and -Grover. Bad white folks didn't lak my husband. Dere was a whiskey still, -near our house where you could git three gallons of liquor for a silver -dollar. Him preach agin' it. Dat gall both makers and drinkers. Him -'dured persecution for de Lord's sake, and have gone home to his awards. - -"In slavery, us have all de clothes us need, all de food us want, and -work all de harder 'cause us love de white folks dat cared for us. No -sirree, none of our slaves ever run 'way. Us have a week off, Christmas. -Go widout a pass to Marse Daniel's quarters and they come to our'n. - -"Dr. Scott and Dr. Douglas 'tend sick slaves. I don't set myself up to -judge Marse Abe Lincoln. Dere is sinners, black and white, but I hope -and prays to git to hebben. Whether I's white or black when I git dere, -I'll be satisfied to see my Savior dat my old marster worshipped and my -husband preach 'bout. I wants to be in hebben wid all my white folks, -just to wait on them, and love them and serve them, sorta lak I did in -slavery time. Dat will be 'nough hebben for Adeline." - - - - -Anna Johnson - - - *Interview with Anna Johnson (75)* - *Rt.4, Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I sho is spry, kaise I sho is done took care of myself and I done dat -good, too. I know Will Evans who is 72 and he is all bent over and -wrinkled and all stewed up. Dat's de way folks wants to see you befo' -dey calls you old, but dey ain't gwine to see me like dat, 'deed dey -ain't. Most folks calls me de youngest, but I was born on de 30th day of -July, and I is passed by 75 Julys and still gitting around better dan -some dat is seed but 60 Julys. - -"Well does I remember when my young marster, John Kitchens, went to de -'Federate War. He was a big fat feller, and jolly. De morning he left, -he come through de yard leading a fine bay. All of us was dar to see him -off. We had fetched him things, but he say dat you couldn't carry -nothing to war but a pack on your back and he laid dem all down and -wiped his eyes and rode off wid a big yell to us. Dat was de rebel yell -and we answered back. - -"One morning de very next week we heard our young missus hollering and -we went to see what de trouble was. She had got word dat he had done -gone and got kil't by a Yankee. We all cried. De little chilluns, John, -Will, Ella and Bob cried, too. Missus went to her ma and pa, Mr. Green -and Miss Sallie Mitchel, near Trough Shoals. Frankie Brown and Malissa -Chalk went wid her to her pa's. Our plantation was awful big. It was -sold and us wid it. - -"Wasn't long till young Missus married again and went to Virginia to -live. Frankie and Malissa come back to our plantation. Den slavery was -over and dat is de last dat I ever heard of our Missus." - - - - -Jack Johnson - - - *Interview with Jack Johnson, 84 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"You see me right here, de sin of both races in my face, or was it just -de sin of one? My Marster was my father, his name was Tom Reed, and he -lived six miles from Lancaster Court House. Dats where I was born. My -mammy name Jane, don't know where she come from. My marster was kind to -us. I done no work much, just picked peas and sich like during de war. I -was my mammy's only child, and when de war was over, and I grow up, I -left dere and come to Cedar Creek, low part of Fairfield County. I marry -a gal, Bella Cook, and us had sixteen chillun, thirteen of them is a -livin' now. I then marry Hannah Dubard, a widow. She and me have had no -child. - -"I b'long to de Sanctified Church, and you have to go down into de water -and come up straight way out of de water to b'long to dat church. Where -is it? Its on Little Cedar Creek in dis county. Who de preacher? His -name is the Reverend Edmunds. Us sings spirituals, one is, 'Dat Heavenly -Railroad Train', another is 'Dere is a Rock in my Heart', another, 'So -glad I'm here, but I'd rather be up yonder Lord'. Some colored churches -'sinuate a child born out of wedlock can't enter de kingdom of heaven. -Our church say he can if he ain't a drunkard, and is de husband of one -wife and to believe on, and trust in de Lord as your Savior, and live a -right kind of life dat he proves of. Dat seem reason to me, and I jine -and find peace as long as I does right. - -"Never was sick a day in my life, can plow yet, eat three meals a day, -but can't sleep as much as I use to, six hours plenty for me now. I's -just here today findin' out 'bout dat old age pension dats a comin'. -Will you kinda keep a eye on it for me and let me tend to de ox and de -grass at my home on Little Cedar Creek? A short hoss is soon curried, so -dats 'bout all I kin 'member to tell you now." - - - - -James Johnson - - - *Interview with James Johnson, 79 years old* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -_THE COTTON MAN_ - -James Johnson lives with a sister at 1045 Barron Street, College Place, -[HW: Columbia], S.C. He is incapable of self support on account of age, -ill health, and impaired feet. One of his feet was mashed off and the -other badly damaged by handling bales of cotton several years ago. He -subsists on what his sister and other people are able to give him. - -"I has been livin' right here in Columbia for the past thirty-six years. -I has worked in de cotton business, first as ginner and then wid cotton -buyers, ever since I has been here. I knows all de grades of lint cotton -and can name them right now. (He ran through the different grades fairly -correctly.) - -"I learned all I knows 'bout cotton and de grades from Mr. M.C. Heath -and Mr. W.E. Smith, cotton buyers in Columbia for thirty years or more. -They thought so much of my knowledge of cotton, dat they sent me many -times to settle claims wid big men and big buyers.[1] - - [1] Verification not available. - -"It ain't what a nigger knows dat keeps him down. No, sir. It is what he -don't know, dat keeps de black man in de background. White folks dat is -business folks, pays no 'tention to our color as much as they does to -dat money makin' power us has. Of course, de white man sticks to his -color and you can't blame him for dat. If de nigger shows dat he is -willin' to work and to learn to be business lak, make money and walk -straight wid his boss and fellowman, de better class of de white people -is gwine to treat him right. I knows what I's tellin' you is so, from my -own 'sperience wid Mr. Heath and Mr. Smith. They always treated me -better than I deserved and even now in my old age, deir folks and deir -friends gives me money, dat keeps me out de poorhouse. - -"No, sir, I don't 'member de Civil War a-tall myself but I has heard all -'bout it from my own folks and de white folks I has worked wid. It seems -lak I knows too much 'bout them awful times. I sho' am glad I didn't -come 'long then. I feels and knows dat de years after de war was worser -than befo'. Befo' de war, niggers did have a place to lie down at night -and somewhere to eat, when they got hungry in slavery time. Since them -times, a many a nigger has had it tough to make a livin'. I knows dat is -so, too, 'cause I has been all 'long dere. - -"Many niggers have gone north to live, since freedom, but de most of -them either comes back south again or they wants to come back. De north -don't suit de nigger. Cold climate lak they has up dere is too hard on -him. He has thin blood and you knows dat a thin pan gwine to git hot -quicker than a thick one and cold de same way. You see a heap of niggers -is lak wild animals, in a way. He laks to eat a heap, sleep a heap, and -move 'bout slow. When he goes up north he has to step 'round fas', -'cause if he don't, he gits in de way of them Yankees dat move 'bout -quick. - -"De black man is natchally lazy, you knows dat. De reason he talks lak -he does, is 'cause he don't want to go to de trouble to 'nounce his -words lak they ought to be. When he says 'dat' he saves a letter, same -way wid 'dis' and nearly all other words. It ain't after savin' so much; -he is just too careless and lazy to care 'bout it. A nigger wants what -is in sight and not dat what he can't see; it can look out for itself. I -is sorry I has to say all dis 'bout my own color but it is de truth. De -truth makes you free and runs de devil. I is a nigger myself and I knows -what they is and what they does. - -"Is de nigger 'ligious? Yes, sir, many of them is very 'ligious widout -'ligion. He takes all dat from white folks. So many think 'ligion is -gwine to git them somethin' widout workin' for it and fool people by -makin' them think they is good and can be trusted and all dat. But I -'spects some of them is right, even at dat, 'cause if they ain't got -'ligion they sho' ain't got nothin' in dis world. I pays no 'tention to -all dis 'gwine on' lak I see some 'ligious folks does. Maybe I wouldn't -be in de fix I is, if I paid more 'tention to churches and all dat. I -believes in churches and good folks but I don't practice them good -things lak I ought to. Boss, if you take de dollar out of 'ligion and de -churches, you sho' would have to hunt for them. I believes dat. I don't -see no 'ciples gwine 'bout a preachin' and doin' good, lak I has heard -they once done, barefooted and askin' no pay. De preachers dese days is -a ridin' in de finest automobiles and you sho' better look out for -yourself, if you don't, you is gwine to git run over. - -"I has been a good man, in body, all de time since I got grown. For many -years I didn't know my own strength. I never seen a bale of cotton I -couldn't pick up and tote where I wanted to, by myself. You see dese -foots of mine? They was mashed off, from drappin' bales of cotton on -them, back yonder many years ago. - -"I 'members mighty well, when de fust skyscraper was built in Columbia. -My bosses was one of de fust to have a office in dere. Dat was de Loan -and Exchange Bank Building, on de corner of Washington and Main streets. -I has been here and seen dis city grow from a small place to what you -see 'tis now. - -"My mammy and daddy b'long to Mr. Andrew Johnson of Orangeburg County, -of dis State. They said dat they was treated mighty good by deir marster -all de time they was slaves. My daddy took his old marster's name. I was -born a slave but all I knows is what I has heard. Some of it might be -right and some might be wrong." - - - - -Rev. James H. Johnson - - - *Interview with James H. Johnson, 82 years old* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -"My name is James H. Johnson. I was born December 20, 1855, at the town -servants' quarters of Alfred Brevort at Camden, South Carolina, and that -was home until I was turning into twelve years of age. I was nearly ten -years old, when the army of General Sherman came to Camden. I talked to -some of the soldiers, soon after they arrived." - -Such was the greeting of the Rev. James H. Johnson; a retired, and well -educated Methodist Episcopal minister, when a WPA reporter called at his -residence, 2029 Marion Street, Columbia, South Carolina, and asked for -an interview. He sat in his study, furnished for comfort and equipped -about as well as any study, of this kind, in Columbia. - -"My mother," he explained, "was one of the maids at the Brevort home, -and my father was one of the overseers of the plantation. We did not -hear about President Lincoln's freedom proclamation in 1863, but the -status quo of slavery kept right on as it had been until Sherman's army -came through. You know General Lee surrendered the same spring, and we -learned we were free. - -"In 1866 my father bought four acres in the vicinity of Camden and -improved it with a house and barn, and we lived there for several years. -My father went into the mercantile business in Camden and prospered. -There I went to the public schools. We had teachers from the North, and -I finished all the grades. There were no high schools in the state at -that time. - -"We had our own home-raised hams and plenty of food products in our -quarters, when my mother and I heard shooting nearby. We stepped into -the yard and saw a big number of soldiers shooting at a running white -man of the community. They did not hit him. In a moment or two five -soldiers strode into our yard and we were scared at first, but they told -us they were friends, and one of them spied the hams and asked if they -belonged to the big house. When told that they were ours, they said they -were hungry, and mother fixed them a dinner of ham and eggs and plenty -of other things. They thanked us and left, doing no harm. - -"Before they left, I noticed a crowd of soldiers at the Brevort home. I -ran there, and told the troops, please, to do no damage to the premises, -as the mistress, then in charge, was the best friend my mother and I had -ever had. They left soon afterward, showing no animus toward the Brevort -family and taking nothing away. - -"We never received any aid from the Freedmen's bureau, for we did not -need it. After I finished the public school work at Camden and helped my -father in his store for a time, I entered the University of South -Carolina, in October, 1874 and stayed there until 1877. You know there -was a change in government in 1876, and Negroes were excluded from the -university in 1877. I was in my junior year, when I left. - -"I returned to Camden and taught school in Kershaw County for ten years. -During that time I opened school in the Browning Home, which still -stands in Camden. In the meantime, I had been an interested member of -the Methodist Episcopal Church since my early years, and I was made an -elder in that denomination in 1888, and sent to Columbia as pastor of -the Wesley Methodist Church. - -"When I came here as pastor, that church stood on the corner of Sumter -and Gervais streets, on the site where the United States post-office now -stands. The congregation sold that corner in 1910 and built the brick -church at Barnwell and Gervais streets. I was the pastor all that time, -retiring in 1930 due to physical feebleness. The congregation of that -church has always been rather small. This accounts for my doing other -work. I was a clerk in the internal revenue office in Columbia for -eighteen years. - -"Now, I am a notary public and make some income from that. The church -gives me a small pension, and I advise and do literary work for a large -number of Negro residents. In that way, I keep fairly busy and my family -has never gone hungry. I did preach some, a few years ago. I am now too -feeble to undertake that task, and have to be content, mostly at home." - -(Reporter's Note: The Rev. James H. Johnson speaks no dialect. He speaks -choice, grammatical diction and has a most pleasing personality. His is -one of the very few Methodist Episcopal Churches in South Carolina for -Negroes. He says he is glad the church is now seeking to void the split -over slavery in 1860. He resides in a comfortable home at 2029 Marion -Street, Columbia, S.C.) - - - - -Jane Johnson - - - *Interview with Jane Johnson, 90 years old* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -Jane Johnson is living with her niece at 1430 Harden Street, Columbia, -S.C. She is of small statue, dark, not black, plump and apparently well -cared for. On account of her age and bodily afflictions she is incapable -of self-support. Her niece is unmarried, owns a comfortable home, works -and provides for her grandmother in a good and satisfactory manner. - -"Come in, white folks, take dat chair and set down. I hears dat you -wants to talk to me 'bout myself and my master in slavery time. My name -is Jane Johnson and I's 'bout ninety years old, from de best 'membrance -I has from my white folks friends and my own people. One thing I does -know, I's been here so long, dat I sometimes think I's near 'bout a -hundred years old. - -"I b'long to Master Tom Robertson. My mistress' name was Ophelia. I -didn't see her much in slavery time, 'cause she stayed in de big house -on Arsenal Hill, Columbia, S.C. De onliest time I see her a-tall, was -when I was sent to de big house for somethin' and dat wasn't often. -Master and mistress had heaps of chillun, 'mong them was twins, all dead -now, if I 'members right, 'cept Master Tom Robertson, a grandson and a -rich man too; he living right here in Columbia. My old master lived in -Columbia but his plantation, where us slaves lived, was 'bout four or -five miles from Columbia on de Sumter road, just beyond de soldiers -hospital (Veterans Hospital), dat's right. - -"Master Tom come to de plantation every day 'cept Sundays and sometimes -he come dat day, 'specially in crop season. He never talked to us slaves -much, just talked to de overseer 'bout us all, I reckon. De overseer was -a nigger and de meanest man, white or black, I ever see. Dat nigger -would strut 'round wid a leather strap on his shoulder and would whip de -other slaves unmerciful. He worked us hard from sunrise to sunset every -day in de week, 'cept some Saturday evenin's. 'Most of de grown slave -women knocked off from field work at dinner time on Saturdays and done -de washin' for de rest of de slaves. - -"Yes sir, us had a plenty of rations to eat; no fancy vittles, just -plain corn bread, meat and vegetables. Dere was no flour bread or any -kind of sweet stuff for de slaves to eat. Master say sweet things -'fected de stomach and teeth in a bad way. He wanted us to stay well and -healthy so us could work hard. - -"Master Tom was good to us, course he was, 'cause he didn't see us much -no way. But dat nigger overseer was de devil settin' cross-legged for de -rest of us on de plantation all de time. I never has believed dat master -'tended for dat nigger to treat us like he did. He took 'vantage of his -bein' 'way and talk soft talk when he come again. Yes sir, he sho' did. - -"Not very long after de Yankees come, us was told dat de niggers was -free. You might think dat was a happy day for us slaves, but I didn't -think lak dat. I was kinda lonesome and sad lak. Us slaves was lost, -didn't know what to do or where to go. Don't you think dat was a sad -time? - -"How old was I when I done my courtin'? What's dat? Dat courtin' stuff -is what white folks does, no nigger knows what dat fancy thing is. Us -just natchally lives together; men and women mates lak de animals out -dere. Colored people don't pay no 'tention to what white folks call -love, they just 'sires de woman they wants, dat's all. I married dat man -of mine, Tilghman Thompson, and us got 'long right smart, 'til he die. I -got 'nother one, Anderson Johnson, and he die too, so here I is, left -here yit. - -"You knows de black man has had a long, hard road to travel since he was -first brought to this country. From de first, he b'long to de white man -to be took care of and to work. Some colored folks 'pear to be doin' -right well dese days but back yonder long befo' I was born, I's been -told, they didn't know how to provide for themselves. What I wants to -know, what de nigger gwine to do widout de 'sistance of de white man? -What they has got come from them, you knows dat. I hear some of them -growlin' 'round, dat they is gwine to do dis and gwine do dat and they -don't do nothin', 'cept talk too much. They sho' better do right; live -in peace and git somethin' dat will stay with them. - -"Maybe I's wrong to say dis but you knows, white man, de nigger is a far -way back of de white man; his time ain't come yit, leastwise dat's de -way it 'pear to me. De nigger come from Africa and other hot places, so -he takes after de hot country he come from and has a short temper, hard -head, and not 'nough sense to keep him out of trouble when he gits mad -or 'cited. When he come here, de white man made him work, and he didn't -like dat. He is natchally lazy and when he had to work, then he began to -get huffy and to conjure up in he mind hate and other bad things against -de whites. Ever since the first time de nigger found out he had to work, -he has silently despised the white man. If he had lived and done -nothin', then he would be a 'tirely different person to dis very day, I -knows dat. - -"Does I 'member President Lincoln? I sho' does, but not so much, 'cause -I was too young to have much sense. I has heard my mammy and daddy say -he was a good man and wanted everybody to be free, both white and black. -Dere was a heap of poor white folks in slavery time, and some of them -lived mighty hard, worse than the slaves sometimes. You knows blood is -thick and it is gwine to turn to its kind befo' helpin' de others. They -say slavery was wrong but what 'bout hard times? Dat is de worse kind of -slavery, I thinks. All dis hollerin' 'round 'bout freedom they has, -shucks, all dat kind of talk ain't nothin'. When you has work and some -money in your pocket so you can go to de store and buy some meat and -bread, then you has de best freedom there is, don't tell me. - -"President Roosevelt is 'nother good man. He has looked down on de poor -and 'tressed in dis land wid mercy; has give work and food to de poor -people when nobody else would. He sho' has turnt dis country 'round and -tried so hard to make things right wid de people. When he turn dis way -and turn dat way, them men up there where he is, try to stop him from -helpin' us, but de Blessed Master is gwine to hold his hands up. They -ain't gwine to be able to stop him, 'cause he has done so much good in -de world. Dat man is gwine to be 'membered by de people always, but them -dat has fought him and worked against him is sho' gwine to be forgot. -Nobody wants to 'member them for de evil they has done. You knows dat if -you sows evil you is sho' gwine to gather evil in time. They ain't gwine -sow much longer; their harvest time is right out dere in sight, but de -President is gwine to live on wid us. - -"I's gettin' old now, I has to draw on de 'membrance of de past, tottle -'long in de present and stare wid dese old eyes out dere into what is to -come (future). I has rheumatism and high blood pressure, so you see I's -in for a troublesome time from now on to dat last day. I's livin' wid my -niece now, in her own home, dat is some pleasure to me in my old age." - - - - -Jimmie Johnson - - - *Interview with "Uncle" Jimmie Johnson (90)* - *172 E. Park Ave., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -"I was born in Virginia, but Dr. L.C. Kennedy bought me, my mother and -brothers and we moved to Spartanburg. My father stayed in Virginia. Dr. -Kennedy lived near where North Church Street and Kennedy Place now is, -and I lived in a two-room house in his back yard. I was just a baby at -the time. My old masser was as good and kind to me as he could be, so -was my missus. My mother died when I was ten years old, and Missus was -just like a mother to me all the time. When I got old enough I used to -do some things around the yard for Masser and Missus. - -"Masser was an Episcopalian, and I went to Sunday School where the rock -church now stands (Church of the Advent). Miss Mary Legg was my teacher, -and she was a saintly woman. She was a niece of old Masser. Old Missus -used to come to the house where I lived and teach me my alphabet. After -I got older, I used to take care of Masser's horse and buggy for him; -used to hitch-up the horse for him and go with him on his ways to see a -patient. Bless his heart, he let me take my Webster's blue back speller -and my history with me when I would drive with him. I would study those -books and Masser would tell me how to pronounce the hard words. That is -the way I got my education. Masser would tell Missus that Jimmie was a -smart boy, that he had no father nor mother and that they must be good -to him. They sure was. I never wanted for a thing. Sometimes on our -drives Masser would tell me some Latin words, but I never did study -Latin--just English. - -"My masser would say that Jimmie had sense, was a good boy, so Missus -would let me practice on her organ or her piano in the house. I got -pretty good on these, so when I got to be a young man, I taught lessons -on both the reed organ and the melodian, then on the piano. I taught the -rudiments of music and piano for about 25 years. - -"When the Yankee soldiers come to Spartanburg it scared me. They kept -telling me that they were not going to hurt me, but I got a pile of -brick-bats and put them under the house. I told Missus I wasn't going to -let any of the soldiers hurt her. The Yankee soldiers did not bother me. -They came all around our house, but every one of them was quiet and -orderly. They took some of Missus' sugar and hams, but did not kill any -of the chickens. I told them not to take the sugar, but they took it and -the hams anyhow. - -"Missus told me that I was free, but I told her I was going to stay on -where I was and protect her until I died. And when Masser died, I -grieved and grieved about him. I loved him dearly and I know he loved -me. He was good and kind to me always. He never whipped me, not once. I -grieve about my masser to this day. He was a kind gentleman. - -"No, I never married, and I haven't got anybody kin to me now. My -brothers all died and I am the only one left. I adopted four children. I -taught them music and we got on pretty well after Missus died. I stayed -with her until she died. I told Masser I was going to stay with them -even if I was free, and I did. When Masser died, I had no one to love -but Missus. I taught music and gave piano lessons, but I can't do that -now, as I am too old. Lately I tried to cut some wood. I would cut a -lick, then rest; cut a lick, then rest, so I gave it up. - -"Lord bless your soul! I am so glad you told who you are, and you talk -like Masser Dan. You know he and I used to play together as boys. He -would give me anything he had. Honey, come around and see me again. I is -sure glad to see you. What did you say your name was?" Upon being told, -his face would light up with a smile, and he would repeat just what he -had said before. He was then asked when he got to be a poet. "Law' -chile, my old missus told me I was going to be a poet." - -This ninety-year-old ex-slave then sat down at the piano and played for -the writer. - - - - -Mary Johnson - - - *I* - *Interview with Mary Johnson (85)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born seven miles from Newberry, near Jalapa. I was a slave of -John Johnson and his wife, Polly (Dorroh) Johnson. They was good to dere -slaves. My daddy was Daniel and my mudder Elisa Johnson who was slaves -of marster John Johnson. My mudder come from Georgia when she was 14 -years old, bought by Marse Johnson. We lived in a little one-room house -in dere yard. The mistress learned me to card and spin, and to weave -when I was a child. When I was old enough, dey put me in de field to -work, hoe and pick cotton. We got no money for working, but got our -place to live, some victuals and a few clothes to wear. We had no -garden, but helped de mistress in her garden and she give us something -to eat from it. We had homespun dresses; we made not much underclothes, -but sometimes in awful cold weather, we had red flannel underskirts. - -"Nigger boys in slavery when dere work was done in evening, sometime -went hunting and caught rabbits, squirrels or 'possums. - -"We got up at sun-up in mornings and worked 'till sun-down. We had -Saturday afternoon off to do anything we wanted to do. At Christmas -time, we got dat day off, and de master would have a big dinner wid all -kinds good things to eat, spread out in de yard. - -"We never did learn to read and write--had no nigger school and had no -nigger church, but sometimes de white folks would have us go to dere -church and set in back seat or gallery. - -"The white folks had cotton pickings and corn shuckings often and we -helped. Dey had good dinners for them coming to it. De childrens, white -and black played marbles sometimes, and played base. Us slave children -played base and jumped from one base to another before could be caught; -and we sing: 'Can I git to Molly's bright? Three course and ten. Can I -get there by candle-light? yes, if your legs are long and light.' - -"Marse John's youngest son got to be a doctor. He was a good man and -helped us when we was sick. He did not gibe herbs much, but some of de -ole folks used 'life everlasting', now called rabbit tobacco, for cure -of bad colds or pneumonia. Dey boiled it and make a plaster and put it -on sore places of chest. Dey used holly bush or spice bush bark, boiled -to a tea and drunk for sickness. - -"De padderrollers come in dat section, they rode at night and if caught, -a nigger, when he was out of his place, would be took in and told dat he -would get 25 lashes if he was caught again. When de war was over, de -Yankees went through but didn't bother us; but dey stold horses, mules, -cows and supplies. When freedom come, we left the place, 'cause marse -Johnson and some his folks went to Mississippi. We hired out to Kirk -Richards nearby. - -"De Ku Klux was not a bother. Dey jus marched sometimes at night, wid -long white sheets over dem and all over de horses. Dere heads were -covered with small holes for eyes, nose and mouth, and had long white -ears like a horses ears. - -"I think Abe Lincoln was a fine man, and Jeff Davis was good too. Slaver -did good to nigger, made him careful and know how to work." - - *II* - *Interview with Mary Johnson (85)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live in town in a little two-room house wid some of my grandchilluns. -We rent de house. I am too old to work, but do what I can. - -"I was de slave of John Johnson. His wife was Miss Polly. Dey was good -to de slaves, and I had no trouble. My mother was Eliza Johnson and my -pa was Daniel Johnson. Dey was both slaves to Marse John Johnson. My -mother was from Georgia. We always lived in de yard behind de house in a -small one-room cabin, a pretty good place to live, I reckon. - -"We didn't git no money fer our work. We got something to eat, but not -much clothes to wear. We worked hard dem days; got up at sun-up and -worked all day till sun-down or as long as we could see. We didn't git -much time off, 'cept maybe a day at Christmas. - -"No, de white folks didn't learn us to read and write. We had no school -and no church in slavery time, but some of de niggers was made to go to -de white folks' church and sit in de back seat. - -"Yes, de Yankees was bad. Dey burn't everything in deir way, and stole -cattle; but dey didn't come near our place." - - - - -Miemy Johnson - - - *Interview with Miemy Johnson, 82 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Miemy Johnson has no particular place of abode. She is a transient among -her children, kin people, and friends. In whatever home she may be -temporarily an occupant, she does the cooking and family washing. - -"I knowed when dat bunty rooster hopped in de door, flap his wings and -crowed, dis mornin', dat us gonna have company today. I told Sam so -befo' he left here. Him laugh and say: 'Ma, dat bunty rooster is a big -liar sometime. Maybe him just wanna recommend hisself to you and beat de -pig to de slop bucket dat you ain't carried out to de pen yet.' I's sure -glad dat you come, for it'll show Sam dat dat chicken never told a lie. - -"Set down dere and let me fetch you a plate of boil peanuts, which I -just is set off de fire. You lak them? Glad you do, honey. Most white -folks love them dat way, 'stead of parched. How you been? You sure is -growed since de last day I clap my eyes on you. How's I been? Poorly. -I's just a waitin' for de chariot to carry me home! - -"Well, us done cut down de underbrush, now let us git into de new -ground. You just wanna talk 'bout me and what happen to me all 'long de -last eighty years? Dat's some big field to go over. - -"My pappy was name Henry. My mammy name Ceily. They both b'long to old -Marse Johnnie Mobley, but my pappy's pappy b'long to de Johnson's; -they's big white folks on de Catawba River side of de county. They sold -deir plantation and some of de slaves, to old marster and his daughter, -Miss Nancy. She was de widow Thompson befo' her marry dat Kentucky hoss -drover, Marse Jim Jones. - -"Freedom come. My pappy 'membered de Johnson's and took dat for his -name. I never been able to git 'way from dat name. I marry little Phil -Johnson. My brudder was Adam Johnson and my sister was Easter. Her marry -Allan Foster. - -"My husband and me live in de old Mobley quarter, three miles southwest -of Woodward and just 'bout a quarter of a mile from where you settin' -dere a writin' right now. Long as him live, him was de carriage driver -for de Mobleys. He 'tend Fellowship Church. All de Mobleys done dead or -moved 'way. Dere is nothin' left to tell de tale but dat cemetery you -passed, comin' 'long down here and de ghosts dat shiver 'round dere in -de nighttime. Whenever it snow, them ghosts have been seen travelin' -down de road and up de avenue to Cedar Shades. You know dat's 'bout a -quarter of a mile farther down de road from where Marse Johnnie's -brudder, James Mobley, lived. Fine old house dere yet, but just colored -folks live in it. - -"Our chillun was Roxanna, Malinda, Ben, Mary, Waddell, Queen Elizabeth, -Russell, Pearly, Thomasine, Helen, Alberta, Maggie, Mary Jane, Willie, -Sam and Roy. Had de easiest birth pains when, to my big surprise, de -twins, Sam and Roy come. Dat been forty years ago last July. I 'members -well, dat de twins was born on a Wednesday and I walk to Red Hill Church -de very nex' Sunday. Rev. Richard Cook was de preacher. Him didn't see -me a settin' in de church and he pray for me by name, as bein' in de -perils of childbirth. And bless God, me right dere in dat church a goin' -'long wid de rest of them a singin': 'Amazin' Grace How Sweet De Sound -Dat Saved A Wretch Lak Me'. I was a proud wretch dat day as sure's you -born! - -"Does I 'member anything 'bout de earthquake? Jesus my Lord, yes! Us was -holdin' a revival meetin' in Red Hill dat night! It was a moonlight -Tuesday night. Brother Stevenson and Brother Moore was a helpin' Brother -Richard Cook carry on de meetin'. It was de last day of August, in '86. -Brother Moore had preached, de choir had sung a hymn, and Brother -Stevenson was in de middle of a prayer. Him said sumpin' 'bout de devil -goin' 'round lak a roarin' lion a seekin' folks for to devour. Then de -roarin' was heard. De church commence to crack and shake and rock. Then -all de folks holler: 'Oh Lordy.' They run out dat church and some took -up de big road to de depot at Woodward. Some fell down in de moonlight -and cry and pray. Brother Cook say de Bible says: 'Bow down, or kneel or -fall on your face befo' de Lord'. Then he say: 'Let us all fall on our -faces dis time.' Us did and each one of them preachers pray. 'Bout time -they git through, us see a rider on a milk white hoss a gallopin' up to -de church wid de white mane and tail of dat hoss a wavin' and shinin' in -de moonlight. De people went wild wid fear and scream at de top of deir -voices; 'It's de white hoss wid his rider of de book of Revelations -goin' forth, conquerin' and to conquer.' They bust forth in dat mighty -spiritual 'Oh Run Here, Believer, Run Here, Oh Sinner Your House On -Fire! Oh Sinner Your House On Fire!' They run and surround de white hoss -and his rider and what you reckon? Us find out it was just Marse Ed -Woodward on his white hoss, John, comin' back from courtin' my young -mistress, Tillie Mobley, dat him marry de nex' Christmas. - -"Marse Ed got down off dat hoss when us beg him to stay wid us. It's a -pow'ful comfort to have a brave white man 'round at sich a time 'mongst -a passle of terrified niggers, I tells you! And to think Marse Ed done -dead. - -"You goin' now? You ain't eat all your peanuts. Put them in your pocket -and eat them on de way to de Boro. Goodbye--I 'spect I'll git to glory -befo' you does. If I does, I'll be dere a waitin' wid a glad hand and a -glad voice to welcome you to de everlastin' home." - - - - -Tom Johnson - - - *Interview with Tom Johnson (83)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G. Leland Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born on the Gilliam place, I reckon about 1854. My father died -when I was little; I don't remember him. My mother was Lucy Gilliam who -belonged to Reuben Gilliam. Reuben Gilliam was a big farmer and -slave-owner. He was good to de nigger chaps but whipped de big ones -every day or two. I was too little to learn to read and write, but dey -never learned any slaved to do dat. Dey never paid us any money wages, -just give us eats and a place to sleep, and a little clothes. I worked -in de field when I got bigger. Never had school in de place, and never -had a church, either. - -"Us children played lots of games, like rolly-hole. There are two holes -and you try to roll a ball in one hole. The white folks had -corn-shuckings, lots of them, as they raised lots of corn on de farms. -Dey had cotton pickings, too, and carding and spinning bees, quilting -bees. I used to feed de shippers when women folks spin de yarn, when I -was a small boy. We raised plenty corn, cotton, and other things. We had -a big garden, too. - -"When freedom come all of us left and went off. I went back to get -something to eat. I married Mattie Kinard who belonged to old Maj. John -Kinard. We had nine children. - -"I 'member de red shirts when dey come through our place. I like it -better now dan in slavery times." - - - - -Richard (Look-up) Jones - - - *Interview with Richard Jones (Dick Look-up), age 93 [HW: 125?]* - *County Home, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -Dick has an upward stare all the time, and holds his head as if he were -always looking up into the sky, consequently he has won the sobriquet, -'Look-Up'. - -"Everybody dat knows me knows dat I was born on de Jim Gist plantation, -and it used to jine Mr. Winsmith's and de Glenn Peak plantations. Mr. -Winsmith was a doctor. Marse Jim sho was a good man to his darkies. - -"My father was named Ned Jones and he belonged to Marse Berry Jones. His -plantation was across de forest, next to West Springs. Mother was Lucy -Gist, belonging to Marse Jim. My parents had de following chilluns: -Esther, Bella, Ephriam, Griggs, John, Penfield, me and Richard. Dey -married and so we was all Jones. - -"De slaves in de Gist Quarter lived well. All nigger chilluns in dat -quarter had very small tasks until dey was seventeen or eighteen years -old. De quarter had nine houses. Dere was seventeen hundred acres in our -plantation; or dat is, de part where we lived and worked. We lived in -one-room log cabins dat had to be well kept all of de time. - -"All de chilluns in de Quarter was well fed, clothed, housed and -doctored until dey was strong and well developed younguns. Den dey was -give tasks and learnt to do what de master and de mistress thought dey -would do well at. - -"In de houses we had comfortable home-made beds and chairs. We had nice -tables and plenty to eat. Our clothes was kept mended by a seamstress, -and dese things was looked after by one of de mammies on de plantation -dat was too old to work. - -"Ah yes, well does I 'member my Granny from Africa, and straight from -dere, too; Judith Gist, dey named her. Dat ole lady could not work when -she died, fer she was a hundred and ten years old. Dey had in de paper -dat I was 125 [HW: 93?]. It gives me notice to say dat I is de oldest -man in Union County. Can't 'member any of my grandfathers. Millie Gist -was my mother, and aunt Judith was her mother. - -"Granny Judith said dat in Africa dey had very few pretty things, and -dat dey had no red colors in cloth, in fact, dey had no cloth at all. -Some strangers wid pale faces come one day and drapped a small piece of -red flannel down on de ground. All de black folks grabbed fer it. Den a -larger piece was drapped a little further on, and on until de river was -reached. Den a large piece was drapped in de river and on de other side. -Dey was led on, each one trying to git a piece as it was drapped. -Finally, when de ship was reached, dey drapped large pieces on de plank -and up into de ship 'till dey got as many blacks on board as dey wanted. -Den de gate was chained up and dey could not get back. Dat is de way -Granny Judith say dey got her to America. Of course she did not even -know dat de pieces was red flannel, or dat she was being enticed away. -Dey just drapped red flannel to dem like us draps corn to chickens to -git dem on de roost at night. - -"When dey got on board de ship dey were tied until de ship got to sea; -den dey was let loose to walk about 'cause dey couldn't jump overboard. -On de ship dey had many strange things to eat, and dey liked dat. Dey -was give enough red flannel to wrap around demselves. She liked it on de -boat. Granny Judith born Millie, and Millie born me. No, I ain't never -had no desire to go to Africa, kaise I gwine to stay whar I is. - -"Uncle Tom come 'long wid Granny Judith. Two womenfolks come wid dem, -aunt Chany and Daphne. Aunt Chany and aunt Daphne was bought by de Frees -dat had a plantation near Jonesville. Uncle Tom and 'Granny' was bought -by Marse Jim Gist, but dere marsters allus 'lowed dem to visit on July -4th and Christmas. When dey talk, nobody didn't know what dey was -talking about. My granny never could speak good like I can. She talk -half African, and all African when she git bothered. No, I can't talk no -African. - -"After I was seventeen I did all kinds of hoeing and plowing and other -farm work fer my marster. He said dat by dis time, his little niggers' -bones had done got hard enough fer dem to work. We had a 'driver', a -older person, dat showed us how to do everything right. Marse never let -him over-work or hurry us. We liked him--'Uncle July Gist', we called -him and dat was his real name, too. His wife, Aunty Sara, was good to -us; dey both buried at Woodson's Chapel Baptist Church. - -"Fer my first task I had 1/4 of an acre in taters, 'bacca and -watermelons de first year. Some of de boys had 'pinders, cantloupes and -matises (tomatoes) in dere task of a 1/4 acre. - -"De next year, we made corn and sold it to our master fer whatever he -give us fer it. All de use we had fer money was to buy fish hooks, -barlows, juice harps and marbles. Boys did not use 'bacca den until dey -got twenty-one or over. Marse allus carried a roll of money as big as my -arm. He would come to de quarter on Christmas, July 4th and -Thanksgiving, and get up on a stump and call all the chilluns out. Den -he would throw money to 'em. De chilluns git dimes, nickles, quarters, -half-dollars and dollars. At Christmas he would throw ten dollar bills. -De parents would take de five and ten dollar bills in charge, but Marse -made de let de chilluns keep de small change. I tell you, I ain't never -seed so much money since my marster been gone. He buried at Fairforest -Presbyterian Cemetery as white folks calls it, but we calls it Cedar -Grove. - -"When he died, he had sixteen plantations, you can see dat at de -courthouse in Union. All his darkies went in a drove of wagons to his -burying. He was killed by dem Yankees in Virginny. Uncle Wylie Smith, -his bodyguard, come back wid his body and told us dat Marse was kilt by -a Yankee. Marse Jim was a sentinel, and dat Yankee shot him in his nose, -but strange to say, it never tore his face up none. Miss Sara buried him -in his uniform and she wrapped a Confederate flag over de top of de -coffin. Uncle Wylie put Master's watch around Miss Sara's neck like he -had done told him to do when he got home. Miss Sara cried and us cried, -too. Jim never married and dat's why Miss Sara to do everything, kaise -she was his sister what lived wid him. - -"Mr., I run on Broad River fer over 24 years as boatman, carrying Marse -Jim's cotton to Columbia fer him. Us had de excitement on dem trips. -Lots times water was deeper dan a tree is high. Sometimes I was throwed -and fell in de water. I rise up every time, though, and float and swim -back to de boat and git on again. If de weather be hot, I never think of -changing no clothes, but just keep on what I got wet. Five niggers allus -went on Marse's boat. One man steer de boat and of course he was de -steerman, and dat what he went by. I recollects two steermans, Bradley -Kennedy and Andy McCluny. Charlie Gilliam was de second steerman, by dat -I means dat he de young nigger dat Bradley and Andy had to break in. - -"Sometimes Marster have three flat boats a-gwine down at one time, and I -has recollections of as many as five a-gwine from our plantation; dat -was not so often, though. Us had long poles to steer de boats wid; den -dere was some paddles, and some of de niggers was called privates dat -handled de cotton and used de paddles when dey had to be used. You knows -dat batteaus was what dey always used de paddles wid. Privates did de -shoving and other heavy work. De seconds and de privates allus shoved -wid de poles when de water was rough, and de steerman give orders. I was -allus a boatman. - -"Charlie Gilliam acted as boatman, some; and den de other boatmen was: -Bill Hughes, Warren Worthy, Green Stokes and John Glenn. Dey made de -poles to suit de job. Some of de poles was longer dan others was. Some -of dem was broad and flat at de end; others was blunt and others was -made sharp. When de Broad River rose, sometimes de waves got higher dan -my house dar. Den it was a real job to handle one of Marse's boats. Fact -is, it was five men's jobs. Wid water a-roaring and a-foaming and -a-gwine round you like a mad tiger a-blowing his breath, so dat you was -feer'd (scared) dat all your marster's cotton gwine to be spilt, you had -to be up and a-doing something real fast. Sometimes dat river take your -boat round and round like a merry-go-round, 'til you git so -swimmy-headed dat you have to puke up all de victuals dat you done eat. -Den it swing from dat whirl into a swift stream dat take you a mile a -minute, yes sir, a mile a minute fer I don't know how fer. - -"Den you see a tree a-coming right straight to you. If de boat hit dat -tree, you knowed dat you be busted into a million pieces. You had to git -your poles and somebody had to let a pole hit dat tree ahead of de boat. -Of course dat change de boat's course from de tree and you went sailing -on by. Once in a freshet us raced twenty-five miles in twenty-five -minutes. Marse Jim was wid us dat time, and he tole us so by his watch. -De water a-jumping real high and dat boat a-jumping still wusser made me -so skeer't dat I just shake in my knees and all de way up and down my -legs. - -"On dis trip we had went plumb up in North Carolina. Us never had been -dat fer up befo'. I ain't never seed North carolina befo'; neither is I -seed it since. Broad River was real narrow when we went up and she look -like a lamb; but when we come down it had done and tuck and rained and -dem banks was vanished ... but dat water sho did rare up dar to git back -in its regular channel. De rocks up dar was mo' scary looking dat dey is -whar it run through Union to Columbia. Dat night we run into a nine-mile -shoal. Couldn't none de niggers keep dat boat off'n dat shoal it was so -powerful ... dat is, de water just tuck dat boat plumb smack out'n our -hands. But it throwed our boat in shallow water and of course dat made -it drag. Good dat it never drug over no sharp rocks--and dey was setting -all around us--but it happened dat it hit sand. We camped dar fer de -night. By morning we had done go a quarter mile from de channel. - -"When we et (ate), we worked de boat out into de main channel again. Den -we staked her to a tree and tuck a look around befo' we started down -stream fer Union; dat seemed fer off right den. Finally de master -boatman give de order, 'Shove off, boys!' We shoved and we fell into a -clear open channel and our boat went a-skeeting down stream. We never -had to hit a lick, but she went so fast dat we was all skeer'd to take a -long breath. Finally Marster said, 'Boys, see dem willow trees down -yonder; well, steer her to run over dem so dat she will slack her -speed.' Us did, but it never deadened our speed a mite, dat us could -see. Marster shake his head and 'low, 'Bound fer hell, maybe, boys'. - -"Got to Cherokee Falls, wid water so high couldn't tell no falls dar. -Marster say, 'Lay her to de right, we can't wreck dis boat widout -putting up a honest man's fight.' Den he say, 'If us does, us'll sho go -to hell.' We tried to swing her by grabbing to a big willow, and we -broke a lot of limbs in trying, but we did swing her and she run a 100 -yards widout steering, and de boat landed on a little mountain of land. -Marse 'low, 'Ain't never seed sech a ocean of water since I was eighteen -years old, damn if I have.' He look at me and say, 'Don't know whether -Dick scared or not, but he sho is a brave man.' I was a-setting my feets -on land den, and I look at him and 'low, 'No sir, I ain't skeer't, why I -could come over dat little place in my bateau.' Truth is, dat I was so -skeer't dat I wasn't skeert. We lay over a day and a half. De water had -done receded back some, and we come 27 miles down to Lockhart Shoals in -dat one day. De water was still so high dat we run over de shoals widout -a tremor. Come sailing on down to Fish Dam and went over de Fish Dam and -never knowed dat it was dar. Den we landed at de road wid everybody safe -but still scar't. - -"Dar was two Charlie Gilmores ... one was kil't right below Fish Dam. He -was hit in de head by a private. When de private was cutting de boat, -Charlie got in de way of de pole and it hit him in one of his temples -and he fell over in de water dead. When dey got him, wasn't narry drap -of water in his lungs, dat's how-come us knowed dat he was kil't -straight out. Some says dat he was hit in de y'er (ear), but anyway it -was on a tender spot and de lick sho done him up. Nothing wasn't done to -de private, kaise it was all accidental and Marse and everybody felt -sorry fer him. - -"On river trips, we took rations sech as meat, bread and cabbage, and us -cotch all de fish dat we wanted and had coffee. We each took day in and -day out to cook, dat is, all dem dat could half-way cook did dat." - - - - -Wesley Jones - - - *Interview with Wesley Jones* - *Rt. 2, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Yes sir, I drinks jes' a leetle likker, and I drinks it--I don't let it -drink me. One call fer another. Dar it goes 'till you be's drunk. I is -97 years old and I ain't never been drunk in my life. No sir-ee, nobody -ain't never saw me drunk. It sho drink some of 'em though. - -"Heep o' stars fell when I was young. Dey fell regular fer a minute er -so. I laid down fer a nap and de niggers woke me up a hollering. Ev'y -darky was scared, but it sho was a pretty sight. - -"I 'members de earthquake, too. De earth shake and tremble so hard dat -some loose bricks fell out my chimney and de pitcher fell off de -winder-sill down on de flo'. I was 'bout 50 years old den, if I 'members -correct. Dat come 'long in 1886. - -"I also 'members Gen. Wade Hampton, when I was a building up de -breastworks to keep de Yankees from shooting us. Dem was scary times, -but de Ku Klux days was scary times de most. - -"My young marster, Dr. Johnny Hill, used to have me drive him to -Padgett's Creek Church. Sometime us go to de Quaker church, den agin, us -go to church over in Goshen Hill. - -"'Bout fus' thing my white folks had me a-doing, was gwine fer de papers -up to de sto' at Sardis. I would git a lot o' letters, fer in dem days, -de white folks rit letters to one another mo' dan dey does now. I guess -dese days de mos' writing dat is done is business writing. At de Sardis -sto' dey used to give big barbecues. Dem days barbecues was de mos' -source of amusement fer ev'ybody, all de white folks and de darkies de -whole day long. All de fiddlers from ev'ywhars come to Sardis and fiddle -fer de dances at de barbecues. Dey had a platform built not fer from de -barbecue table to dance on. Any darky dat could cut de buck and de -pigeon wing was called up to de platform to perform fer ev'ybody. - -"Night befo' dem barbecues, I used to stay up all night a-cooking and -basting de meats wid barbecue sass (sauce). It made of vinegar, black -and red pepper, salt, butter, a little sage, coriander, basil, onion, -and garlic. Some folks drop a little sugar in it. On a long pronged -stick I wraps a soft rag or cotton fer a swab, and all de night long I -swabs dat meat 'till it drip into de fire. Dem drippings change de smoke -into seasoned fumes dat smoke de meat. We turn de meat over and swab it -dat way all night long 'till it ooze seasoning and bake all through. - -"Lawyer McKissick and Lawyer A.W. Thompson come out and make speeches at -dem barbecues. Both was young men den. Dey dead now, I living. I is 97 -and still gwine good. Dey looked at my 'karpets' (pit stakes). On dem I -had whole goats, whole hogs, sheep and de side of a cow. Dem lawyers -liked to watch me 'nint' dat meat. Dey 'lowed I had a turn fer ninting -it (annointing it)." - - - - -Sallie Layton Keenan - - - *Interview with Sallie Layton Keenan, 80 yrs. old* - *20 Calhoun St., Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -'Aunt' Sallie (80 yrs. old) and 'Uncle' Robert live with their grandson. -A daughter lives nearby. They like to tell of the days when they were -children: - -"Land o' de libbin, my maw, she wuz one o' de Hughes and Giles niggers. -She used to lob to set down by de fire an' tell us younguns 'bout de -times what de had down dar on de big ribber (Broad River). Our -plantation, she used to say, wuz de one what de white folks called Mt. -Drury. But when maw wuz rael young, jus big enough to wait on de fine -white ladies, she wuz put on de 'block', you nos what dat wuz, and sold -to Marse 'Matt' Wallace. Marse Matt took it into his haed dat he wuz a -gwine to a place what dey calls Arkansas. His white folks, specially his -wife's, dem wuz de Mengs, dey riz up an put forth mighty powferul -objections. Fer a long time he wuz jus onsettled in he mind 'bout zactly -what he really wuz a gwine to do. - -"Peers to me like my maw 'lowed dat he sorter kept his intentions secret -when he had rightly make up he mind 'bout de whole business. In dem -days, dere wo'nt no trains like dare is now. Everbody had to ride in -waggons, and de white ladies, dey allus rid in fine carriages. De -chilluns, dey rid wid de wimmen folks. Our Marster, he rid high steppin' -horse, cept on de Sabbath, when he rid wid de missus to meetin' house -out on de creek. (Brown's Creek). - -"Anyhow, one cold mornin' not long fore Christmas and jus atter -Thanksgivin' us sot out fore day, or dat is, my maw and pa did, kaise I -wuz not born till we got to Mississippi River. Dar wuz fo' in de white -folks carriage--I is heered Maw tell it a thousand times, over and -over--In de carriage dar wuz Missus; and de fo' chilluns, Jeanette, -Clough, Winter and Ida. Marse Matt, he rid de horse right by de side o' -de carriage. Paw--de call him 'Obie', he driv a waggin wid all de little -nigger chaps in it dat wuz too little to walk. De big nigger boys and -gals dat wuz strong, dey walked. De roads wuz jus narrow little trails -wide enough fer de carriage and de waggin to git through de lims o' de -trees. Dey would hit you in de face iffin you didn't duck 'em, so maw -allus 'lowed. Dey had pack mules dat fetched along de supplies, fer dey -had to spen' de night in de thick woods what nebber had been cut. All -kinds er varmints used to git atter dem and maw 'lowed dat dey wuz -scared when dey sot camp, and she used to tremble mo' den she slep. When -she did sleep, she 'lowed dat she drempt de awful varmints wuz a gittin' -atter her. De missus, she wuz scared at night too. Marse Matt, he 'lowed -he warn't one bit scared, but maw sat dat Missus say he jump powerful in -he sleep sometimes. - -"Marse Matt had done sot a task of so many miles fer dem to travel from -sun-up to sundown, but maw 'lowed dat dey nebber did hardly git dat fer. -De pack mules would git short winded, and sometime de carriage horses, -dey would git lame; or one o' de waggin wheels would take and break; or -it wuz allus some bad luck er follerin atter dem. Den Marse Matt, he -'lowed dat he didn't believe in no travelin' signs, and 'cause o' dat, -maw 'lowed dat dey had de worsest kind o' luck. Dat is de reason dat de -train did not git no further than 'Promoter' County, Miss. (Mr. Wallace -really went to Como, Desoto County, Miss., verified by Mrs. J. Clough -Wallace). It took dem fo' weeks to reach 'Promotor'. Dar dey set up de -new home. Maw 'lowed dat dey wuz called tender feeted poineers by dem -what had got dar ahead of dem. Peers like maw 'lowed dat dey stayed dar -five year. Anyway de fus year, a lot o' de niggers tuck all manner o' -ailiments and dey died. De Missus, she kept full o' cold in dat log -house. Dey had a fine house here, you nos de house what Miss Roberta -Wallace libs in, well, dat wuz de one, cepin it wuz not as fine as Miss -Roberta got it now. Anyway, maw and paw, dey didn't like it no better -dan missus, cepin dey wuz skeered to speak dere minds. Finally, de -Marster, he tuck down sick, and in spite o' all dat Missus do fer him, -maw 'lowed he kept a growin' worser and worser till he tuck and died one -bad night. Missus, 'Dandy' de Marster allus called her, had got so broke -down wid worry and sorrow, dat she wuz nigh to death's door, herself, -when de Marster died, maw said. Fer dat reason, dey kept it from her fer -two weeks. Dey thought dat she wuz gwine to have de pneumonia, like him, -but she started to gittin' well fore she tuck de pneumonia. Maw said dat -dey used all o' de ole nigger remedies on de Missus dat dey knowed and -fer dat reason dey brung her through. Maw is told me dem remedies but I -is so ole now, dat I jus remembers dem. If Bob wuz at hisself he could -give you some. You come by here some day when de moon is right and den -Bob'll be in his right mind to tell you some o' dem. - -"De Missus, she come back powerful slow, and it wuz mi' nigh -Thanksgiving when she got strong. It wuz so cold dat she used to 'low -how she wish fer her paws big warm fire, and de Carolina sunshine. So -one bad morning, she took and got a letter from her paw in Union. He -axed her to fetch us all back here to Union. It had done tuck de letter -over three weeks to git to her. Long fore de Marster had died he had gib -up hope er gwine to Arkansas. When dat letter rive, maw 'lowed dat de -Missus she tuck and started to cryin'. All dat day she cry and read it -over an over. De very next morning she called up all us, I wuz born den, -and maw 'lowed dat I wuz a carrin' a sugar tit in my mouf and dat I had -de cooter bones round my neck. Course I disremembers all cept dat what I -is been told over and over. When maw and paw went out dar, dey had one -little chile. He wuz six years ole when dey got back here. One had done -tuck and died fore dey lef here. Den me and my sister, we wuz born in -Miss. - -"Dat wuz one glad day fer us, kaise Missus 'lowed dat she wuz a gwine -back to her paw in Union. All de niggers, dey started to dancing and a -hollerin' like dey wuz wile. Maw 'lowed dat some folks dat libbed three -miles away tuck and come to see us. Some o' dem called us slackers, er -sometin' kaise we wuz a leavin'; but others, maw 'lowed, dat dey wished -dey could go as fer as Georgia wid us. But I is nebber liked Georgia -myself. Missus gib de orders fer us to begin packin' and maw said dat de -way dem niggers worked wuz a dyin' sin. De Missus, she sell her mules -and other stock, kaise we wuz a gwine to ride all de way back on de -railroad train. It had jus broke through to Miss. Some o' de ole niggers -'lowed dat dey wuz feered to ride on dem things, bein' as dey wuz drawed -by fire. Dey thought de debbil, he wuz a workin' in de inside of dem. -Maw 'lowed dat if de Missus wuz not feered she would not be. De Missus -was feered 'bout dem dat wuz not gwine to ride on de train, but when she -'lowed dat dey could jus stay in Miss. Maw said dat dey nebber did hear -no mo''bout dem bein' feered o' de train. - -"Maw and paw allus tole me 'bout de things what I did on de train. I wuz -so young dat I jus remembers anything about dat. She 'lowed dat she tuck -de cooter bones from my neck fore we started to de train. Maw 'lowed dat -when de train come up, dey wuz so scairt dat we did not want to git on -till she did. All de niggers wuz looked up to when dey got back here, -maw 'lowed, kaise no niggers in Union had ebber rid on de train ceptin -dem dat had rid fer as Alston, and dey wuz so few dat you could count -dem on your hand. - -"Missus 'Dandy' come right back to her paw's house. He wuz Mr. Clough -Meng. Missus Dandy's little boy, Clough, wuz big enough to go to school -when dey got back. It wuz Christmas when dey got to 'Promotor' County, -and it wuz Christmas when us rive back. - -"When my paw, 'Obie', wuz a courtin, a nigger put a spell on him kaise -he was a wantin' my maw too. De nigger got a conjure bag and drapped it -in de spring what my paw drunk water from. He wuz laid up on a bed o' -rheumatiz fer six weeks. Dey all knowed dat he wuz conjured. He could -not even set up when his victuals wuz fetched to him. So his brother -knowed who had put de spell on him. He tuck and went to another old -conjure man and axed him to take dat spell off'n paw. De conjure man -'lowed to paw's brother dat a grapevine growed over de spring, and fer -him to go dar and cut a piece of it six feet long and fetch it to his -house at night. When he tuck it to de conjure man's house, de conjure -man, he took de vine in a dark place and done somethin to it--de Lawd -knows what. Den he tole my paw's brother to take it home and give it to -paw. De man what put de spell on paw, I mean de nigger what had it done, -he come often and set down by paw and ax him what was ailen him. Our -conjure man, he tole paw dat de nex time de man come an' set down by his -bed, fer him to raise up on his lef elbow and rech down by his bed and -take dat piece o' grapevine and hit de nigger over de head and face. Den -atter he had done dat, our conjure man 'lowed dat paw could den rise up -from his bed o' rheumatiz. - -"It wont long before de nigger come to visit my paw. My paw, he axed him -real nice like to have a seat. His maw had done put a chair by de bed, -so dat he would set down wid his face toward paw. Atter he and paw got -to talkin, paw reched down an' axed him to have a look at de grapevine -dat he was gwine to smoke fer his ailment. Dat nigger, he 'lowed to my -paw dat it wuz not a goin to do his rheumatiz no good. Jus as he 'lowed -dat, paw, he riz up on his lef shoulder and elbow and wid his right han' -he let loose and come down over dat nigger's face and forehead wid dat -grapevine. Dat nigger, he jump up and run out o' dat house a hollerin' -kaise he knowed dat paw and done got de spell offin him. My paw got up -de next day and dey 'lows dat he nebber did have no mo' rheumatiz." - - - - -Ella Kelly - - - *Interview with Ella Kelly, 81 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"Yas sir, I was born a slave of Mr. Tom Rabb, they call him black Tom -Rabb, 'cause dere was two other Tom Rabbs. Marster Tom's hair was jet -black and even when he shave, whisker roots so black face 'pear black. -Yas sir, I come to birth on his place two or three miles from Monticello -in de country, so I did. They say de year was de year President Buchanan -was president, though I dunno nuttin' 'bout dat. - -"My pappy name Henry Woodward, and b'long to old preacher Beelie -Woodward's son, John. But all dis was just what I heard them say 'bout -it. My mammy name Ella. She was de cook. I too little to work in slavery -time, just hang 'round kitchen wid mammy, tote water and pick up chips, -is all de work I done I 'members. - -"Money? Help me Jesus, No. How could I ever see it? In de kitchen I see -none, and how I see money any where else, your honor? Nigger never had -none! I ain't got any money now, long time since I see any money. - -"What did us eat? Dat's somethin' I knows 'bout. My mammy de cook for de -white folks, wasn't I right dere at her apron strings all de time? Eat -what de white folks eat, all de time, sho' I did! Too little to 'member -much what slavery was like; can't tell nothin' 'bout clothes, never had -no shoes. Us went to church some Sundays. Funny, them dat had not been -good or done somethin' bad was kept at home by de white overseer, and -some of them played wid de white chillun. Sorry I can't answer every -question. - -"One story I 'member 'bout is de pa'tridges and de Savior. My pappy -allowed de reason pa'tridges couldn't fly over trees was: One day de -Savior was a-riding long on a colt to de Mount of Olive Trees, and de -drove flewed up, make sich a fuss they scared de colt and he run away -wid him. De marster put a cuss on de pa'tridges for dat, and ever since, -they can't fly over tree tops. You reckon dat so boss? They say they -never does fly over trees! - -"I had a good marster and mistress. When de slaves git sick, they 'tend -to them same as one of their own chillun. Doctor come quick. They set up -and fan you and keep de flies off. They wouldn't let de slaves do dis, -'cause certain times you got to take medicine 'cordin' to doctors -orders, and a slave might make a mistake. Oh, they was 'ticular 'bout -sickness. They has a hard time wid some nigger chillun and dat cast' oil -bottle, I tell you! - -"One of my young marsters was name Charlie. After freedom he marry one -of Colonel Province's daughters and me and my mammy moved and lived wid -them a while. Then I got married to Wates Kelly, and went to live and -work for a white man 'bove White Oak. His name was Long John Cameron, de -best white man to work for, but when Sat'day come and all de hands paid -off, he git dat red hoss and turn and gallop to Winnsboro and bring back -a passel of low down white trash wid him to de disturbment of all de -good colored person on de place. - -"Yas sir, Klu Klux was a terror to certain colored persons. I 'members -they come dressed up in white and false faces, passed on to de -Richardson place and whipped somebody one night. - -"My husban' been dead twelve years. I's got thirteen chillun and Minnie -is de onliest one livin' wid me in dis house. Her name Minnie Martin. -Got whole lot of gran' chillun; they cover de earth from Charlotte to -Jacksonville, and from Frisco to Harlem, New York; but never see them, -just three, Franklin, Masie and Marie Martin. - -"I heard 'bout Lincoln and Booker T. Washington. De President now in de -White House, Mr. Roosevelt, have done more good for de nigger in four -years than all de other presidents since Lincoln, done in fifty years. -You say its been seventy-two years? Well, than all de rest in -seventy-two years. Don't you know dat is so? Yas sir, dats de gospel -truth. - -"I's a member of de Baptist Church. Been buried wid my Lord in baptism -and hope for a resurrection wid him in Beulah Land. - -"Yes, de overseer was de poor buckra, he was what you calls dis poor -white trash. You know boss, dese days dere is three kind of people. -Lowest down is a layer of white folks, then in de middle is a layer of -colored folks and on top is de cream, a layer of good white folks. -'Spect it'll be dat way 'till Jedgement day. - -"I got one boy name Ben Tillman, livin' in dis town. White folks calls -him Blossom, but he don't bloom 'round here wid any money, though he is -on de relief roll by sayin' he got a poor old mammy nigh a hundred years -old and he have to keep her up. 'Spect when I gits my old age pension my -chillun will pay me some little 'tention, thank God. Don't you know they -will, sure they will." - - - - -Martha Kelly - - - *Interview with Martha Kelly (age between 70 and 75)* - *Marion, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"All I can tell you, I come here de second year of freedom. Cose I had a -lot of trouble en I can' hardly imagine how long it be dat I de age I -is. My mother, she know my age good, but she been dead for de years come -en gone from here. Ain' much I can remember to tell you 'cause I was -small den. No, my mammy didn' tell we chillun nothin. Didn' have no time -to tell we chillun nothin. She had to go out en work in de field in de -day en she would be tired when night come. - -"My mammy white people was name Charlie Law en his family en dey lived -in Britton's Neck till dey come up here to Marion. We lived in a rice -country down in dat place call Britton's Neck. Ain' you hear talk of it? -My mammy en her chillun stayed right dere on old man Law's place till -long time after dey tell dem dey was free to leave dere. Stayed to de -nigger quarter in my mammy house 'cause we was learn to be field -hands.--Harold, I told you hold off me 'cause I don' feel like you layin -on me dis mornin.--(Harold--small grandson). Didn' know 'bout nothin -much to eat in dat day en time, but bread en meat en rice en all such as -dat. Oh, de peoples in dat country made plenty rice. Dey would plant it -on dis here black lookin dirt en when dey would see dat it was right -ripe, dey would cut it en thrash it out. Den dey would have one of dem -pestle en mortar to beat it wid. My blessed, child, dat been turn out de -nicest kind of rice. No, mam, don' see no such rice dese days dat been -eat like dat rice eat. - -"I recollects I used to be right much of a hand to pull fodder en pick -cotton en all such like dat 'cause all my work was in de field mostly -till I got to de place dat I couldn' work no longer. You see, when I was -married, I moved out dere on Dr. Miles' place over next Pee Dee en 'bout -all my days was spent in de country. Lived out dere on Dr. Miles' place -till I come here to town to live 'bout seven or eight years ago. You is -hear talk of Dr. Miles, ain' you? I used to do what you might say a -right good size washin, but I ain' able to get 'bout to do nothin dese -days much. Just washes out a piece or two like a apron every now en den. - -"Some of de peoples used to sing dere, but I wouldn' never bear much -along dat line. Didn' have no voice much to sing. Is you got dis one? - - Lord, I wonder, - Lord, I wonder, - Lord, I wonder, - - (Repeat 3 Times) - - When de lighthouse - Gwine shine on me. - -"Dat all dere be to dat one. I don' know whe' if I could remember dat -other one or no. Seem like it go somethin like dis: - - Oh, didn' it rain? - It rain 40 days, - En it rain 40 nights, - It ain' never stop a droppin yet, - En I heard de angel in de mornin sing, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - But down by de graveyard, - Me en my Lord gwine stand en talk. - Up on de mountain fire en smoke, - I wouldn' be so busy 'bout de fire en smoke. - I heard de angel in de mornin sing, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - Oh, didn' it rain? - It rain 40 days, - En it rain 40 nights, - Widout still a droppin yet, - I heard de voice of de angel in de mornin sing, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - Oh, didn' it rain? - Down by de graveyard, - Me en my Lord gwine stand en talk. - Chillun, my good Lord, - I heard de voice of de moanin angel, - Oh, didn' it rain? - - Oh, didn' it rain? - It rain 40 days, - En it rain 40 nights, - Widout still a droppin yet, - En I heard de voice of de angel in de mornin, - Oh, didn' it rain? - -"Well, dere ain' been so much dat I remember dat happen when I come -along but what been happen in a way dis day en time. Cose dere been a -difference 'cause de people ain' used to live fast like dey do dese -days. Dere been de shake dat come here in '86 dat I ain' never see de -like since en ain' want to see nothin like dat no more neither. I -remember it come here on a night en when I get in bed dat night, I ain' -been expectin nothin had been de matter. Den dere somethin been rouse me -up en all de dishes was a rattlin'. When I get up en go out in de yard, -de house en all de elements was a rockin'. Yes, mam, I was scared. Didn' -know what was de matter. Thought it was de Jedgment comin when I wake up -en hear all de people round 'bout dere screamin en a hollerin, Jedgment! -Oh, Jedgment! Say dem what ain' right better get right. I tell de people -dat dere won' no need to run to de church den 'cause we was all gwine be -destroyed dere together. Child, I give myself up den en I get just as -happy as I could be. - -"Oh, dey had slavery time doctors to tend de people when dey was sick in -dat day en time. Yes, mam, had dey plantation doctor right dere dat -would go from one plantation to de other en doctor dem what was ailin. -De doctor would come dere to my white folks plantation en tell my -grandmother what to feed dem on en she would give dem de remedy dey tell -her. Dey would use all kind of different herbs in dat day en time dat -dey would get out de old fields en de woods for dey cures. Honey, dey -was good too en dey good yet. I couldn' tell you half de herbs dey use, -but I recollects dere was boneset dat was good for fever, sage for de -baby, pennyroyal dat was good for girls dat catch cold, mint for sick -stomach, catnip to hope a cold, horehound to strike a fever en dat 'bout -all I recollect. No, mam, I can' remember half de herbs dere was in de -field, but I know we got some of dat sage growin dere in de garden now. - -"I hear talk of dem Yankees plenty times, but I don' know much to speak -'bout dem. Couldn' tell de first word 'bout dem. I dis kind of person, I -don' pay much mind to nothin like dat. Dey was white people, I think. - -"Seems like it was better livin long time ago den dere be now. Seems -like times so tight dese days. Reckon it 'cause I ain' able to work, but -dey tell me de people don' get nothin much to speak 'bout for dey work -dis day en time. Seems like I got along good when I was able to whip -round en 'bout. - -"I hear de people say dere such a thing as ghost, but I don' know en I -ain' de kind to speak 'bout de devil business. I hear talk dey could be -walkin right along wid you en dere some people could see dem en den dere -others could look wid all de eyes dey got en couldn' see dem. No, I ain' -never see dem. I has seen people wear one of dese dime round dey ankle, -but I never didn' ax dem nothin 'bout what dey wear it for 'cause some -people is curious en don' like for you to be axin dem 'bout things. I -did always keep out of fuss en I still keepin out it. Never did bother -none wid it. When I see anybody fussin, I shuns dem. My mammy didn' -raise me to do dat." - - - - -Mary Jane Kelley - - - *Interview with Mary Jane Kelley (85)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live in a rented house wid my daughter who takes care of me. I was -born in de Santuc section. My pa and ma was Richard Dawkins and Marsha -Shelton Dawkins. I think dey lived wid de Hendersons in de Maybinton -section near Broad River, but dey lived wid Marse Bill Jeter near Santuc -when I was born. My husband was Ike Kelley, he been dead good many -years. - -"Marse whipped me once or twice. We had to work in de cotton fields, and -I have split rails and ditched like men, too. - -"We had home-raised meat, lots of hogs and cattle. Marse had a big -garden and we got lots of vegetables. Marse fed slaves in a trough in de -yard. He had his own smokehouse whar he cured his meat. His flour was -ground in de neighborhood. Sometimes he give a slave family a small -patch to plant watermelons in. - -"We wore heavy brogans wid brass toes. Sometimes Marse would make his -own leather and have shoes made in de neighborhood and dese would have -wooden bottoms. He never let us learn to read and write. He never -allowed us to go from one place to another unless it was on his place. -De patrollers would git us if we didn't have a pass; even if we went to -church wid white folks we had to have a pass. Niggers didn't have no -church till atter de war; den dey built brush arbors in de woods. - -"I married at my house. We is Baptists, and I used to go and see dem -baptize sinners. - -"We used to go home at night when de work was over and go to bed and -rest. We worked all day on Saturdays, but never worked on Sundays. On -Christmas Days we had off, and Marse would give us good things to eat -and some whiskey to drink. - -"My mother worked around de house in slavery time, she helped cook, -clean up and wash dishes, and sometimes she would card, spin and weave. - -"Dey used to make a yellowish dye from mud, a grayish dye from maple -tree bark and a brownish dye from walnut tree bark. We allus planted by -de signs or de scales. Irish potatoes, turnips and sweet potatoes we -planted in de dark of de moon; while beans was planted in de sign of de -craw-fish. - -"I remember when de Yankees come through atter de war. Dey stole -everything and burned up everything dey couldn't steal. De Ku Klux was -in our section. Dey killed lots of niggers around dar. - -"I don't remember anything about Abraham Lincoln nor Jefferson Davis, -only heard about dem. I don't know much about Booker Washington, -either." - - - - -Gabe Lance - - - *Interview with Uncle Gabe Lance, age 77* - *Sandy Island, Murrells Inlet, S.C.* - --_Genevieve W. Chandler_ - -_BORN AND LIVING ON SANDY ISLAND_ - -"Great Peace! Missus, have to study up that!" - -Uncle Gabe had just arrived from Sandy Island at the country -post-office, having rowed over for his month's supply of sugar and -coffee and things he cannot raise. After the five or six mile row he -must needs walk three miles to the office. - -"I could remember when the Yankee boats come to Montarena--gun-boats. -'Bout ten o'clock in the morning. Soldier all muster out and scatter all -over the island. You know that cause-er-way? Gone over that two by two, -gun on shoulder glisten gainst the sun! Blue-coats, blue pants, hat all -blue. Come back to landing 'bout five o'clock. Have hog, geese, duck! -Broke in barn. Stole rations from poor people. My Grandfather the -Driver--slave Driver. Name Nelson. Maussa--Frank Harriott. Maussa gone -in swamp. Hid in woods. My Grandfather take old Miss Sally--Miss Sally -Harriott--count she couldn't walk with rheumatism--Grandfather took old -Miss Sally on he back to hid 'em in the woods where Maussa. Yankee stay -but the one day. Ravage all over us island. All goat, hog, chicken, -duck, geese--all the animal but the cow been take on the Yankee gun -boat. They broke in Maussa big rice barn and share all that out to the -colored folks. - -"Some my people run away from Sandy Islant. Go Oaks sea-shore and -Magnolia Beach and take row-boat and gone out and join with the Yankee. -Dem crowd never didn't come back. - -"Any slave run way or didn't done task, put 'em in barn and least cut -they give 'em (with lash) been twenty-five to fifty. Simply 'cause them -weak and couldn't done task--couldn't done task! 'Give 'em less rations -to boot! Cut 'em down to - - 1 qt. molasses - 1 lb. meat - 1 pk. corn for a week - -"Good Master all right. Give plenty to eat. Reasonable task. Task dem -time one-fourth to one half acre. Ditching man ten compass. Got to slush -'em out. Got to bail that water out till you kin see track. - -"All dem rice-field been nothing but swamp. Slavery people cut kennel -(canal) and dig ditch and cut down woods--and dig ditch through the raw -woods. All been clear up for plant rice by slavery people. - -"Beat my Pa and Ma to death and turn me loose! Ought to take care 'o me! -I send off my 35 ct. fust (first) time, next time twenty-five cents I -put what little I have in it. Ain't hear no answer. Some ten or fifteen -head round here send off blank and don't get no hearing! Take what -little I have and don't send me nothing 'TALL! I tired with that now! -Ain't had a hearing!" (Referring to 'old age compensation'). - - - - -Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence - - - *I* - *Interview with Ephriam Lawrence* - *Edisto Island, S.C.* - --_C.S. Murray_ - -"I don't 'member much 'bout slavery time 'cause I been lee (little) boy -when war declare. I raise up under de Murray--all my generation belong -to de Murray. Dey know how to treat slave. Ain't lick um much, hardly -any. Chillun hab easy time. All I been require to do was tote coal to -Mosser when he ready fer light. Adam Mack and me, we been de fire boy. -Mosser gib Adam to Mister Eberson. I ain't gib to nobody--'specially. - -"All white people ain't treat slave good. Some make um wuk haa'd all -day, and 'cuss um plenty. De slave who been live near Steamboat Landing -had rough time when dere old Miss git in tantrum. She been 'nuse to -trabbel all over de world, and when she come back, she call all de slave -together, and say: 'When I come, de debbil come.' - -"We family ain't had all dat to worry 'bout. Behave yourself and you all -right. Plenty to eat, plenty to drink. Run 'round and enjoy yourself if -you got uh mind to. Wuk when you wuk, play when you play. Ole Miss 'nuse -to 'tend all de sick nigger. Go from house to house, wid lee pair of -scale and bottle ram jam pack of calomel. Give lee nigger big dose of -castor oil, and dey git well quick, mighty quick. - -"Old Mosser 'nuse to keep all de likker in de world on hand. Had to keep -plenty, 'cause he friend drink lot and nigger drink lot too. He ain't -drink so much heself. Old nigger been live on de place call John Fraser, -same one I tell you 'bout, dat cut all dem tree down. John sure been -slick. When Mosser call fer he fine likker to hand 'round, John come -back and tell him all gone. Mosser want to know why. John make reply: -'Why, Mosser you know you hab Mister Binyard to supper last night and he -finish all dat good stuff. You know how Mr. Binyard drink. Sometime he -drink when your back t'un (turned). How you 'speck um to last?' Mosser -scratch he haid, and say, yes he know how Mr. Binyard drink, and mebbe -dats why de last bottle empty. He ain't satisfy, but he can't prove dat -John drink um. - -"Mosser 'nuse to keep de whiskey down in de cellar by de barrel, and he -draw um off in bottle when he need um and take um upstair to de wine -room. De nigger dat wuk 'round de house and de yaa'd, help dem self out -de barrel when dey feel tired. Mosser 'spect dem to do dat--dey 'title -(entitle) to um. Whiskey been kinder ration in dem day. - -"Nigger jest know haa'd time now. Ain't been dat way when I been lee -boy. You ain't lacking fer nutting den dat you really need. No tussling -'bout fer yourself and knock 'round from pillar to post. If we need -anything slavery time we ax (ask) fer um--make we want known. Any -feeling ably white man who hab slave, gib we what we need. No puzzling -'tall (at all). - -"Ain't I tell you 'bout dat time when John Fraser take overcoat from -Mosser right on Meeting Street? No. Well, it been uh cold day, and -Mosser tell John Fraser to meet him on de corner Meeting and Broad wid -de overcoat, 'cause he going out dat night and he want 'um. John been -wid Abel Wright, and de two of dem walk down de street to meet de Major. -John say to Abel: 'I cold as de debbil, and I going to ax Mosser fer he -coat.' Abel say: 'You crazy. He send for um and he sure ain't going, to -gib you he good new coat anyhow.' John say: 'You wait and see.' - -"Soon Mosser come in sight. When he see John he git mad right off 'cause -John hab on he overcoat. Before he kin say uh wud (word) John speak up -fast. He say: 'Yes, Mosser I got on your coat 'cause it mighty cold. Got -to excuse old nigger. You hab 'nother coat. I ain't got nutting but dis -here jumper. Go on home Mosser and git torrer (the other) coat. I going -to keep dis. He jest fit me. Go on home.' - -"Mosser study fer uh while, den he laugh. He see how keen de coat fit -John, and he know it been cold sure 'nough. John look sekker (just like) -dress up monkey in dat long tail overcoat, and dat make de Major laugh -all de more. So he tu'n round and go home, and John hab dat coat till he -die. - -"Old Mosser scarcely going to deny you nutting, if he like you." - - *II* - *Interview with Ephriam (Mike) Lawrence, about 80, farmer and - laborer* - *Edisto Island, S.C.* - --_C.S. Murray_ - -Mike Lawrence belonged to what he calls "de Murray state" in slavery -times. He was one of Major William Meggett Murray's "fire boys", who was -charged with the specific duty of bringing live coals to the master -whenever he wanted to light his pipe. Mike was only a small lad when war -was declared, but he remembers numerous stories relating to "Maussa's -niggers", some of which are worth recording. He speaks from first hand -knowledge, he says, for the things that he tells about happened during -his childhood and still stand out clearly in his mind. - -Here is one of Mike's stories: - -"Old John Drayton was de smaa'test of all de nigger de Maussa place. He -wuk so haa'd some time dat Maussa jest got to stop him, or he kill -heself. I nebber see sech uh man fer wuk in all my life. Maussa t'ink uh -lot ob um, 'cause he been uh good field hand, beside know lot 'bout -cutting 'ood (wood) and building fence. What been more old John play fer -all de dance on de plantation. He fair (really) mek fiddle talk. When -Maussa gib uh dance he always call 'pon John. - -"Yas, suh dat man sure could play. W'en he saw down on de fiddle and -pull out dat june (tune) 'Oh, de Monkey Marry to de Babboon Sister,' he -mek paa'son (parson) dance. - -"One day more dan all, Maussa Murray send wud (word) to John dat de cow -der break out ob de pasture, and he got to mend de fence quick. But John -done promise some nigger on Fenwick Island to play fer uh dance, and he -steal paa't (path) and go. (This expression means to go away by -stealth). Dat been Friday night and Maussa say John got to finish de -fence by sundown the next day. - -"W'en Old John ain't show up Saturday morning, Maussa ax eberybody where -he been and de nigger all band togedder (together) and tell Maussa dat -dey see him leabe in uh boat to go fish and he ain't seen since. Maussa -been worry sure 'nough den 'cause he t'ink John might be drown'. He -'gage (engage) four man to shoot gun all ober creek to mek John body -rise. Atter dat day drag all 'bout in de gutter. - -"Maussa gone bed wid heaby haa't (heart) 'cause he been very fond ob Old -John. - -"John come back from Fenwick Island early Monday morning and 'fore day -clean he in de 'odd der cut fence rail. Now, one hundred rail been call -uh good day wuk, but Old John decide he going to do better den dat. He -find fibe (five) tree grow close togedder, and he cut piece out ob every -one. Den he chop at the biggest tree till he fall, and dat tree knock -all de rest ober wid um. - -"W'en all dem tree fall togedder, it make sech uh noise, dat ole Maussa -hear um in he bed, and hasten to dress so he kin see w'at der go on in -de woods. - -"Maussa saddle de horse and ride 'till he git to de center ob de noise -and dere he see Old John cutting 'way like he crazy. Maussa been mad -sure 'nough, but den he glad to see John ain't drown'. He staa't to say -some t'ing but Old John interrupt, and sing out: 'Go 'way Maussa, I -ain't got time to talk wid you now.' - -"Old John den gather up five ax, and go to de five tree laying down on -de ground. He dribe uh ax in ebery tree and den grab uh neaby maul. W'en -Maussa look on, he tek de maul and run from one tree to torrer (one to -the other) and quick as he hit de ax, de tree split wide open. Maussa -staa't to say some t'ing 'gain but John ain't let him talk. He say: 'Go -on home to Missus, Maussa, I too 'shame, great God I too 'shame! Go on -home.' - -"Maussa tun (turn) 'round in he track and go home widout uh wud, 'cause -he see de old nigger ain't going to gib him any satisfaction 'bout -Saturday. W'en he go back in de 'ood dat evening he check up and find -dat Old John done cut five hundred rail. Oh, dem been man in dose day, I -tell you." - - - - -Ben Leitner - - - *Interview with Ben Leitner, 85 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"I see you go by de road de other day, on your way to old man Wade -Jackson's house. 'Member de old fellow dat am paralyzed, de one dat -lives beyond Fellowship graveyard? I was setten' in dat graveyard when -you and Marse Thomas pass in de automobile. I 'quire nex' day where you -was a goin', then Marse Thomas say you goin' 'round doin' sumpin' 'bout -old slaves and 'spect you'd like to see me. So here I is. - -"Well, I's knowed you since you was knee-high and Marse Thomas say, -maybe you help me to get a pension. If you can't, nobody can. - -"I was born a slave of old Marse Robin Brice, not far from New Hope -A.R.P. Church. My mistress was name Miss Jennie. My young marsters' was: -Marse John, Marse Chris, and Marse Tom. Marse Tom been a little runt; -they call him Tom Shanty. Him got to be a member of de Legislature, -after de war. All them went to de 'Federate War. Deir sister, Amanda, -marry Marse Bill Kitchen. You 'member him, don't you? Course you does. - -"'Member dat day baseball fust come out and they got up a team, not a -team then; they called it a 'Nine', when de game fust come to woodward -section? If you ketch a ball on de fust bounce, dat was a 'out'. No sich -thing as a mask for de face, gloves for de hands, and mats to protect -your belly. No curves was allowed, or swift balls throwed by de pitcher. -Him have to pitch a slow dropball. De aim than was to see how far a -batter could knock de ball, how fast a fellow could run, and how many -tallies a side could make. Mighty poor game if de game didn't last half -a day and one side or de other make forty tallies. - -"Marse Bill Kitchen was workin' in de store of his brudder-in-law, Marse -John A. Brice. Him was called out to make one of de 'Nines'. Him went to -de bat, and de very fust lick, him knock de ball way over center field. -Everybody holler: 'Run Kitchen! Run Kitchen! Run Kitchen!' Marse Bill -stand right dere wid de bat; shake his head and long black whiskers and -say: 'Why should I run? I got two more licks at dat ball!' They git de -ball, tech him and de umpire say: 'Out'. Marse Bill throw de ball down -and say; 'D--n sich a game!' Folks laugh 'bout dat 'til dis day. - -"My daddy name Bill Leitner. Him never b'long to Marse Robin. Him b'long -to Marse John Partook Brice. Mammy b'long to Marse Robin. Her name -Sarah. Daddy have to have a pass to come to see mammy. - -"My brudders and sisters was Eliza, Aleck, and Milton. Patrollers whup -daddy one time when they come to de house and find him widout a pass. -Marster have mammy whup us chillun, when us need a whuppen. Her milk de -cows, churn, and 'tend to de milk, butter and dairy. I helped her wid de -cows and calves, and churnin'. - -"You ask me is I had plenty to eat? Sure I did, wid all dat milk 'round -me all de time. Best thing I 'member right now was runnin' my finger -'round de jar where de cream cling, and suckin' it off my fingers. - -"Marster took good care of his slaves. They never went hungry or cold. - -"My marster and mistress live in a big two-story house. Us live in -little log house, wid log chimneys. I 'members fightin' chinches in de -summertime and fleas all de time. I wore a asafetida bag 'round my neck, -when a child to keep off croup, measles, diphtheria, and whoopin' cough. -Marster send for Dr. Walter Brice when any slave get very ill. - -"De fust year of freedom I work for Marse Chris Brice. Been wid de -Brices all my life. Now livin' on Marse Tom Brice's place. - -"When de Yankees come, they ramsack de house for silver and gold. They -burn de house and gin-house; carry off mules, hosses, and cows. They -took de chickens, load all de provisions, put them in a four-hoss -waggin, and leave us and de white folks cold and hungry. It was cold -winter time then too. - -"I marry a ginger cake lady, one-fourth white, daughter of Louis Grier. -Tho' I ain't much on looks as you sees me today, dat gal often, befo' -and after de weddin', put her arms 'bout me and say: 'Ben you is de -han'somest man I ever have see in de world.' - -"Us had three chillun. My wife led me to de light of de Lord. I jined de -Red Hill Baptist Church, under de spell of Peter Cook's preachin' and my -wife up in de choir a singin': 'Give me dat old time Religion.' Preacher -Miller is my pastor now. Peter Cook dead and gone to glory long years -ago. I 'members now dat old preacher's warm hand, when he took my hand -dat night I jined. Him say: 'God give you a life to live. You have a -soul to save. God give you His Son to save dat soul. Glory be His -name!." - - - - -Mary Ann Lipscomb - - - *Interview with Mrs. Mary Ann Lipscomb* - *Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -_REMINISCENCES_ - -"My husband, Nathan Lipscomb, was over on Mt. Pleasant fighting, and I -had been over there to see him. He was a private in the rear ranks. When -we were coming back to Charleston on a rice steamer, an open boat, the -Yankees were shelling the town. I played with my fingers in the water of -the bay as the steamer went along. We landed at a different landing from -the one where we had started from. When I got off the steamer I was very -much frightened, for they had shot through the hotel where we were -staying. - -"We immediately left the city by train. I hated to leave my husband so -far behind, but I could do nothing about it. In that day the train used -only wood for fuel. Only two trains a day came from Columbia to -Charleston. They made about 18 miles per hour, but that was good -traveling at that time. - -"My brother, Thomas Wilkins, went through the war. My father, Russell, -and Richard were in training when the surrender came. I stayed with my -father at White Plains while my husband was off to war. When we heard -that the Yankees were coming, we had the Negroes to hide all the horses -but two, and to hide the cows and turn the hogs loose to ramble in the -woods. - -"When the Yankees rode up to the yard and got off their horses, we could -easily tell they had been drinking. We told them that our horses were in -the stable and that the Negroes had fled in terror, which was true. They -ate up everything they could find and ransacked the closets and pantry. -They then caught the chickens, took the two horses in the stable and -went away. - -"The darkies came back with the cows and horses, and we got settled for -the night. About nine o'clock, the Yankees came unexpectedly and took -all the horses and cows. They killed the cows, and made our darkies help -them to butcher them and barbecue them. The Yankees soon ate everything -up and left with our horses. - -"My grandmother, Agnes Wood, gave my mother, Elizabeth Wilkins, a -beautiful young mare. The Yankee who took that mare, turned over a pot -of fresh soap when my mother asked him not to take the mare. Our cook, -Matilda, had the soap ready to cut in the pot, so we saved some of it. - -"During the second year of the war I was making me a homespun dress, and -while my father helped me with the weaving he told me of a dress that -one of his friends made during the Nullificatlon days. I carded and spun -the filling for my new dress, wove it, made the dress and wore it to -Charleston when I went to see my husband. It had broad, black stripes -the width of my two fingers, and two green threads between the black -stripes. It also had a little yellow stripe. It was really a beautiful -dress and looked very much like silk." - - - - -Govan Littlejohn - - - *I* - *Interview with Govan Littlejohn* - *Park Ave. and Liberty St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Capt. Sam Littlejohn whipped Miss Sallie H.'s slave. His name was Ambus -H. Cap' tied him to a tree. Never had no corn-shuckings, us shucked de -corn quick as us hauled it from de field. - -"My marse kilt as many as twenty hogs every time he butchered, which be -about fo' times every winter. Marse Richard Littlejohn never married. He -lived wid his mother and seven brothers. - -"Marse was one good man and he love his darkies. He never had no -overseer, because he had only 'bout 80 slaves as I remembers. I de -onliest chile dat my ma had and I be 88 if I live to see dis coming -December. My ma teach me to fight nothing in dis world but de devil. - -"My father was Peter Littlejohn. Lawyer Tommie Dawkins was his marster. -I never was sold. I married, but never had no chilluns. My old lady been -gone over de river dese many years, so many dat I cannot recall how -many. Yes Sir, I used to light my ma's pipe and wear home-made clothes. -Ole lady Rhoda was de seamstress. She died not long atter we was -liberated. - -"I lives in de Woods Funeral Home which is on de corner of Park Ave. and -Liberty Street. Once I befriend a man in distress. He now own interest -in de undertaking 'stablishment and dat is why I has a room dar in my -old age." - - *II* - *Interview with Govan Littlejohn* - *387 S. Liberty St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Govan Littlejohn, of Spartanburg, told the writer he was 87 years old -and that he remembered slavery times. He said he was born on the farm of -Dicky Littlejohn, located near Grindal Shoals. He said Richard -Littlejohn owned a mill on Pacolet River, though his brother, Jim -Littlejohn, owned the land. This was a grist mill. Govan Littlejohn's -father was a colored man from another farm and his name was Hawkins, but -he took the name of Littlejohn. He remembers the Yankee Soldiers passing -in the public road, but they did not bother any one there; didn't take -or steal anything, and just passed on quietly. He says his master did -not know how to whip anybody, though he remembers him catching hold of -him one day and switching him with a small twig, saying "You little -rascal, you." His master whipped some of the grown negroes but not hard -enough to hurt them, though once or twice he saw a grown negro with bare -back feel the switch. "But he did not know how to whip anybody." - -"Yes, I been conjured," he said. "You see that left foot? Well, once -when I was a young 'buck', I was setting up to a gal and there was -another fellow setting up to her, too. I held a little bit the upper -hand with the gal. But when my left foot began to swell up and pain me, -I had to go to bed. I stayed there three months. Dr. Nott came to see me -and treated me with corn poultices, but they would dry up and fall off -and I didn't get any better. He lanced my foot three times, but nothing -but blood would come. One day a herb doctor came to see me and said he -could cure my foot. He took corn meal poultices, rhubarb roots and some -other things, and it wasn't long before my foot got well. About that -time, my mother found the 'conjuration' right in the front yard at the -door-steps. I must have stepped over it, or got my foot caught in it -some way. The 'conjuration' was, pins, feathers and something else all -tied up in a bag. My mother heard that if it was put in running water, -the conjurer would leave the country. So pretty soon after she put the -stuff in running water, that fellow left the country. He got his arm -caught in a cotton gin not long after he left, and got it chewed off -right to his shoulder. - -"Vegetables should be planted during the dark of the moon. One day, the -man I was working for told me he wanted his Irish potatoes planted. I -told him that wasn't the time to plant potatoes. He told me to plant -some in one particular place that day and call them his potatoes, then -when I thought the time was right, to plant the rest in another place. -His potatoes came up and made prettier vines than mine, had pretty -blooms on them and the vines grew very high. He ragged me about how fine -his potatoes were. He told me to gather the potatoes under my vines for -the house, but not to disturb his potatoes. For several days, the family -ate potatoes from my vines, then I gathered up the potatoes left. I got -five or six wheelbarrows full. I then dug his potatoes and got a little -more than one wheelbarrow full. He told me to plant the garden when I -thought the time was right, and not to say anything to him about when -and what to plant. I always had plenty of vegetables for his family." - - - - -Easter Lockhart - - - *Interview with Easter Lockhart (80)* - *322 Hill Street, Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Folks thinks that I was born round Easter, but that ain't so. March the -9th is what they always told me. The year I cannot recollect hearing, -but by my count that I keep I am running close to eighty years. White -folks give me my age to keep when I married, and I have kept it ever -since, so I cannot be far wrong. - -"It was the chief of police's grandpa that I knew and it was off his -place that my old man come from. I was born Easter Norris and I married -Nathan Lockhart when I was young, maybe fifteen, ain't sure about that. -He was a little older than me. In slavery I was born and my mother was -sold while I was a very young child, so they say. We then lived with Mr. -Clayton Clark. Freedom broke when I was around thirteen, and we then -went back to the Lockhart Plantation. There is where I nursed Henry, a -little baby. He is now the chief of police. Miss Bessie, his mother, had -me to clean up her yards for her. - -"Miss Bessie fixed me up to be baptized at the Limestone Baptist church. -It was then near Johnson Street and across from where Central school now -stands. It was a Negro church. We had to go to the spring pond called -Austin's Pond where all the baptizing took place in those days. Mr. -Austin had a mill there run by a big water wheel. The white folks -carried on their baptizing there, too. The first warm Sunday in May was -when I was baptized. - -"All Saturday I prayed and Miss Bessie told me what I was going to do, -and read to me from the Bible about baptizing and about John the Baptist -baptizing Christ. Yes sir, the Bible say Christ went down in the water, -in the waters of Jordan. Miss Bessie was telling my ma how to fix my -clothes while she was reading the Bible to me. All my clothes was white -but my shoes. In those days they did not have white shoes. I wore white -cotton stockings. I had a white dress to wear to the pond and I took two -pairs of white stockings. A crowd was to be baptized at 2:30 o'clock -that evening. The sun was good and hot. I went with my folks. Miss -Bessie went and all the white folks went to see their Negroes go under. - -"The dress I wore to the baptizing was starched so stiff it stood out. I -wore a white handkerchief over my head that Miss Bessie give me. On top -of that I had a white bonnet that had frills and tucks all over it. When -we got there the banks of Austin's Pond was lined with Negroes shouting -and singing glory and praises. They sang all the songs they could think -of and the preacher lined out songs to them. The people to be baptized -congregated before the preacher, and he told them what to do. Then we -went in and put on the clothes we was to go under in. - -"I had a long white gown gathered from my shoulders and it had a big -kind of sleeves. On my head I wore a white cap and kept on my white -stockings, but I pulled off my black shoes. Never had no white shoes -that I know of way back then. I felt so good that I seemed to walk real -light. While we were getting in our baptizing clothes we shouted praises -as the people on the banks sang. Some of us jumped up. When my time come -I started to the pond and just before the preacher turned to take my -hand, I shouted 'Lord have Mercy' and clapped my hands over my head. -Somebody said, 'Dat child sho is gitting a new soul'. - -"Down in the water I went. First it hit my ankles and then I felt the -hem of my skirts getting wet. I looked down and my gown was floating on -top the water. I took my hand and pushed it down. The preacher pulled me -to him and I went in water to my waist. I said 'Oh Lordy' when that -water hit my stomach. The preacher said, 'Now sister, you just hold your -breath and shut your mouth; trust in the Lord and don't act like a -grunting pig, but have faith'. Then the singing seemed far off and the -preacher's voice got deep. He put his big hand over my mouth and told me -to limber up my back. His other hand was under my back. He pushed me -over, and down in the water I went; then up I come. The preacher put a -towel over my face, and while I was getting water out of my eyes and -mouth, he was saying about the Lord done reached down from Heaven and -created a new soul. I felt real funny when I turned to walk up out of -the water. I could hardly walk for I had on so many clothes and they -were so heavy. As soon as I could I got into the clothes that I wore to -the baptizing and put on my black shoes and the pair of white stockings -that I had fetched with me. While aunt Kizie Lockhart was tying the -handkerchief around my head that Miss Bessie give me, I told her about -how I felt. She said, 'Why, sure child, ain't you done washed your sins -away and got converted?' - -"Then she grabbed me by the hand and we went out among the people -shouting praises to the Lord. I ain't never felt the same since. Aunt -Kizie took me round to say 'howdy' to Miss Bessie. When the preacher had -got them all baptized, we went into the church and had services. The -white folks went on home after the baptizing was over. At the church we -shouted till we could not shout no more. Folks don't like that now. They -don't feel good when they join the church no more, either. I ain't had -nothing to come against me since I was baptized. My head loses lots of -things, but not my religion. - -"Lots of folks was at Mr. Henry's Pa's house for his infair dinner. Mr. -Hiram and Miss Bessie give the infair after the wedding. Miss Agnes, his -sister come back for the wedding. Mr. Henry had sharp snapping eyes and -he was good looking then. His eyes can still snap. When he looked at -Miss Mary his face would light up. Her name was Miss Mary Gilmer, and -she lived up near the lead mine. She sure looked good in white. I did -not see the wedding, so I had to look careful at them when they come in -Miss Bessie's front door so I could take it all in. - -"The infair sure was fine. The table was most breaking down with turkey, -chicken, ham, salads, pies and cakes. All the things to eat, already -fixed on the plates, was fetched in from the kitchen by the Negroes. The -chickens and turkeys just set on the table for ornaments and was not -touched until the next day. - -"The infair started at three o'clock in the afternoon. There were three -or four tables for the people to sit at. The dining room and one other -room were used to seat the guests at the tables while they ate. I can -still see Miss Bessie's white linen table cloth that reached nearly to -the floor. Such a time as I had the week before, washing and ironing the -big linen napkins and shining the silver. - -"They all looked mighty fine at the tables in their fine clothes. I -could not help looking often at Mr. Henry's wife. Miss Bessie had done -studied everything out so as it all went off fine." - - - - -Gable Locklier - - - *Interview with Uncle Gable Locklier, age 86* - *Gourdin, S.C.* - --_H. Grady Davis and Mrs. Lucile Young, Florence, S.C._ - -"I born in Clarendon county, 50 yards of Davis Station. Massa Henry -Bethune dat have big plantation dere was my first boss en after he died, -Mrs. Bethune sold everything en moved to Summerton. Stayed dere till she -married Mr. Thomas, de preacher, dat have big place in Summerton wid -trees in long row right up to de door. He bought place three miles from -Summerton called de Bashet place. Mrs. Bethune was a sport lady en was -good to me en Mr. Thomas good man too, but he was a Yankee. He come to -Summerton to be a school teacher en won' long fore he commence to escort -my Missus en dey made up in a year or two, I hear ma say. I was in de -kitchen en I hear dem. She told ma, 'Eliza, I gwine marry Mr. Thomas.' -Ma say, 'You is.' 'Yes, you reckon he gwine be all right?' 'I reckon he -is, he looks all right.' 'Well, I gwine marry him en try him.' Mr. -Thomas, he Yankee, but he fought for de Confederates. - -"Massa Henry Bethune had big plantation en had a right sharp of slaves -dere. De boss house was here en my house next en all de other slave -house was string along in row dat way. My white folks, dey didn' exactly -treat you as most of dem did. Dey come round en examine you house en see -what you needed. All us live in two room pole house dat have a wood -floor. Old people sleep on some kind of bed prop wid rope wind up like -cow yoke en have quilts en mattresses taking white homespun. De others -sleep on de floor. Dey give us good clothes made out of blue denim cloth -en some had checked or stripe goods. Den dey give us heavy woolen -clothes to wear in de winter time en had Sunday clothes too. My Massa -was good to his slaves all de time. Have own garden dat my mother en -sister would work en my mother done all de cookin for de slaves 'cause -our folks all eat out de same pot. Cook rice en fat meat en dese collard -greens en corn bread en cabbage. Make plenty of de cabbage en eat heap -of dem. - -"I didn' never have to work hard, but dey work dem till dark come on -some places. Dey blow horn en us go to work after daylight en sometimes -get off in time to eat supper by sundown. I was so slow dat when de rest -knock off, dey make me work on. Mr. Thomas, he stand en look at me. My -hands just look like dey put on wrong. When I quit off, I eat supper en -den I go to bed. - -"I ain' never see any slaves punished but I hear tell 'bout it. Some of -dem run away 'cause dey get tired of workin en if dey catch em, dey sho -whip em. Used to have to get ticket from boss or Missus to go any place -off de plantation widout you get punish for it. I hear tell 'bout de -overseer en de driver whip plenty of de slaves en some of de time, dey -would put em in de screw box over night. Sell em if dey didn' do like -dey tell em to do. Speculator come dere to buy slaves en dey sell em to -de highest bidder. I hear em say a certain one bring $1400 or $1500. I -know a man offered my boss $1000 for my brother, Joe, but he wouldn' -sell him. - -"My Massa would give me money now en den. First money I remember he give -me was 75c paper money. He tell me to check his horse en bring him up to -de yard en give me 75c en said, 'I can' carry you wid me dis mornin.' I -was 'bout 9 or 10 years old den. I stood up on de block en wondered why -he couldn' carry me en when I go back to de house, I see my Missus cryin -en she say, 'We won' see him no more.' When he come back, he shot -through de foot. He tell me to go to de blacksmith shop en bring -crutches. Den he went to de war again en when he come back, he was shot -on de right side of de neck. Give me a quarter in silver money dat time. -I ain' never been to de store fore den, but I go to de storekeeper en I -say, 'Mr. King, half dis money mine en half Joes.' I thought it was his -place to give me what I wanted en when I walk out, he say, 'Come back en -get your money,' I carried it home en give it to brother Joe en he give -it to pa en don' know what come of it after dat. Bought plug of tobacco -for pa wid de other money I had. - -"Our folks didn' get no learnin much nowhe' in dem days, but my Missus -sister child learn me right sharp. Dey was boardin at our house en when -I started to school, I didn' have no trouble. I remembers I found a -little book one time en man say he pay me 10c for it. Ma give me a -needle en thread en little sack en I sew my 10c in it. Put it in de -rafter en it stay dere till next Christmas. Believe I took it down en -tote it a long time fore man come by sellin tobacco en I bought piece en -give it to pa. Man give my sister bigger piece for a dime den he give -me. - -"De slaves what belong to my white folks have frolicsome days all -through de year. Go to frolic on Saturday en go to white folks church on -Sunday en sit in portion of church in de gallery. Den on Christmas eat -en drink de best liquor dere was en de Fourth of July de one day dat dey -have to go to [HW: Eutaw] Springs. Dey go in buggies en wagons en have -plenty of everything to eat dat day. I know dere was a battle up dere, -although I didn' never go wid em. Cotton pickin en corn shuckin days -won' no work times, dey was big frolics. De first one shuck red corn had -to tell who his best girl was en all dem things. All dem come to cotton -pickin dat want to en pick cotton en cook big dinner. Pick cotton till -'bout 5:30 in de evenin' en den knock off for de eats en de dancin. Go -to all de slaves weddings too. Dey would mostly get married 'bout on a -Sunday evenin'. - -"I was 'bout 15 year old when freedom come, but I don' remember much -'bout dat day. I remembers de Yankees come to de house one day. De white -folks had a bull dog tied in de smoke house en one Yankee hold de gun on -de dog en another take de meat out de house. Den dey come out en set -table en eat. Dog didn' try to bite em 'cause dog know when to bite. -Somebody ask em to have some rice en dey say, 'I would cut my throat -fore I eat dat thing. - -"I tell you de truth wid de treatment I been gettin I don' see why I -could fought slavery time. I lives here by myself en I used to get check -but check don' come no more en I just lives on what people gets me. -Government got woman bring me wood en bucket of water en niece give me -dis house en acre of land to live on my lifetime. Cook only one meal a -day 'cause I can' afford it. De water I got it ever since yesterday -mornin. Sunday mornin I had hominy en salt water fish en dat de last -time I had good meal. (Wednesday afternoon). Lady tell me dere ain' -gwine be no more checks. It be two months since I get check en lady come -en I tell her I hungry en she go to Gourdin en buy me two cans en loaf -of bread. Had two big watermelons en was saving one for Miss Lanes. Girl -come runnin in en say my niece house on fire en I go runnin to see 'bout -fire en my biggest watermelon gone. Dat de one I been saving for Miss -Lanes en den I wake up on Friday mornin en de other one gone. Next thing -I know, dey started on my late ones. One night woman come in patch en -thump en thump. I was standin at de peach tree in de patch en she have -one en when she get near me, she stoop down en pick another. I say, 'You -reckon dat one ripe?' She sho drop em en run dat time. - -"Thank you, sir, your kindness will not be forgotten. Dis here dozen -matches last me till next week. - -"Good-by. Yunnah come back." - - - - -Walter Long - - - *Interview with Walter Long, 83 years old* - *2440 Sumter Street, Columbia, S.C.* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -"I's a little bit stiff, when I tries to git up, and sometimes when I's -walkin' I weaves and wobbles like a drunk person, but know all dat comes -from old age. I has been healthy and strong all my life. De onliest -trouble I has ever had in my life has been wid my teeth; they sho' has -been bad a long time, and now I has only one or two old snags left. I -don't want no store bought teeth nohow, 'cause they 'minds me of a hoss -or mule wid a bit in their mouth floppin' up and down. No sir, I don't -want them triflin' things botherin' me, I think I can take care of de -little I gits to eat wid dese few snags I has left. - -"Me and all my folks was slaves and b'longs to Master John Long, and his -wife, Betsy Long. Their plantation was six miles north of Chapin, -Lexington County, South Carolina. De plantation was a big one and lay -'long Saluda River. You know it had to be a big place 'cause master had -over three hundred slaves in all. Everything de slaves needed was made -right dere on de plantation; all de food 'cept sugar and coffee, and -what us need to wear, 'cept buttons for de clothes. - -"Master and mistress raised four fine boys, no girls I 'members 'bout. -De boys names was: West, Mid, Gradon and Hill. Master West and Mid -served as overseers on de plantation. Dese boys being de overseers, was -de whole reason us slaves was treated good and kind. They knowed us -slave would b'long to them some day, when old Master John died. De -slaves never worked hard, and they was give every Saturday and Sunday to -rest. - -"Our food in slavery time was good and a lot of it. De food was cooked -good and prepared for us by servants dat didn't do nothin' else but -'tend to de food dat de rest of de slaves had to eat. When us had beef -us went to de pasture for it; when us had pork, us went to de hog lot. -De cabbage and turnips come from de garden and field dere at home, and -when us was eatin' them us knowed they didn't come from out yonder, like -de stuff us has to eat dese days. - -"De houses us slaves lived in was built of logs and then de logs was -covered over inside and out wid plank, dat made them tight and warm. -Every family was furnished plenty of covering, so they wouldn't suffer -in cold weather but in summer de most of us slept on pallets on de -floor. - -"Master John was a business man, but he never got too busy to be polite -and gentle to mistress. Both of them has good schoolin'. They knowed -just how to treat both their slaves and their white friends. They was -good to all, and they never turnt anybody down dat come to them for -help. Many was de poor white folks dat 'most lived on Master John. They -was what I calls, real white folks; no sich people is easy found dese -days by de poor niggers. - -"Mistress was mighty 'ticular 'bout our 'ligion, 'cause she knowed dere -was no nigger any too good nohow. Us slaves 'sorbed all de good us had -in us from our mistress, I really believes. She was so kind and gentle, -she moved 'mong us a livin' benediction. Many was de blessings dat fell -from her hands for de sick and 'flicted. She got tired, but I has never -seen her too weary to go to a cryin' child or a moanin' grown person on -de place and 'quire what was de matter. Us was 'bliged to love her, -'cause she knowed us more better than us knowed ourselves. More than -dat, she and her sons' wives teached us how to read, write and figure, -'nough to help us in small business. - -"When did I git married? I wish you hadn't ask dat question. I sho' had -a bad mixup wid my first gal. You see it was dis way: I was good grown -befo' I left my daddy and mammy who was then farmin' for Master Mid -Long, on the other side of Saluda River. My mammy had a heap of sense -dat she got from de white folks. So, one day while me and she was -pickin' cotton out in de field she all at once stopped pickin' cotton, -straightened up, pointed her finger at me and said: 'Look here nigger, -you knows I don't like for you to be gwine to see dat brown skin gal -what lives over yonder on Cling Creek. After I has raised you up de best -I knowed how and then for you to do like you is, foolin' your time 'way -wid such sorry women makes your old mammy sick and mad all over. One -other thing I wants to say to you is dat some of dese nights when you go -to see dat gal, you is gwine to see something dat is sho' goin' to call -to your mind what I's sayin' to you.' Well boss, you know how 'tis wid -men. I knowed mammy could give good 'vice, and I knowed she sho' -wouldn't do me no harm. But what 'bout dat I's gwine to see some nights -when I go to see dat gal? So I thinks and thinks 'bout dat two or three -days and never did satisfy my mind what dat something gwine look like. - -"Late one evenin', close to sunset, several days after mammy said what -she did to me, I kinda loafed off down to de cross-road store, 'tending -I was gwine after some 'bacco. I fool 'round de store a good long while -like I didn't have nothin' on my mind 'cept my 'bacco. I had a plenty on -my mind, 'cause as dark come I headed up de Cling Creek road towards dat -gal's house. When I got close to her house I seen her down at de fence -in front of de house. Soon as she glimpsed me, she 'tended like she was -lookin' for something dat wasn't dere. I knowed what she was lookin' -for, 'cause women has got their own 'culiar way of foolin' men; keepin' -them from knowin' what they are thinkin' 'bout. Dat gal knowed all de -time in dat little kinky head of hers dat I was goin' to see her dat -night. When I spoke to her she didn't 'pear to be de least bit -frightened or surprised. - -"Quick as a cat she climbed up and set down on top of de fence, while -from de other side I leaned against it, close by. Dere she was smilin' -just as shy and skittish as a squirrel. Us stayed right dere and talked -and talked 'bout everything we knowed 'bout and a heap we didn't know -'bout, 'til de big yellow moon stood straight up, befo' I said farewell -to her and begun makin' my way down de big road towards home. - -"I went on down de road whistling wid nothin' on my mind 'cept dat gal. -When I got 'bout a mile from home I seen a woman wid a basket on her -arm, a little piece ahead, comin' towards me. Just as I turnt to let her -pass I kinda raised my hand to my hat to speak. But bless your soul, I -ain't seen dat woman no more. I stopped and looked everywhere and dere -was nobody in dat road 'cept me. Well, dere you is. What does all dis -mean nohow? So de more I thought de more a 'culiar feelin' crept over my -body. Then I say: 'Here I is been lookin' for hants and spirits all my -life and I ain't never seen one befo' dis one.' By dis time dat 'culiar -feelin' had reached my foots and they got to movin' 'bout uneasy like. -Dis ain't gwine to do I said and wid dat I tore off down de road faster -than a wild hoss. White man, I believes I run de first hundred yards in -nearly no time and after dat I kinda picked up a bit. I begun to feel -dat I wasn't makin' as good time in de road as I ought to be makin' so I -cut 'cross de field towards a narrow strip of woods close to home. When -my foots hit de rough grass and corn stalks of de field they took holt -then and got to bird-working[2], smooth and nice like machinery. I -thought I heard something back of me, I glanced back to see what it was -and befo' I could git my head straight again I smacked head on into a -pine tree as big as I is. Well, my runnin' ceasted right dere, de big -yellow moon went dark, a breeze fanned my face, and then everything got -still. - - [2] Swift movement - -"De next mornin' when my mind come back to me, de sun was shinin' -straight in my face. I lay dere on de ground blinkin' my eyes, wonderin' -if I was still livin'. After a while I tried to move and sho' 'nough I -was dere all right. - -"After de war de most of us slaves stayed on de plantation and worked -right on just like nothin' had happened. I lived with my mammy and daddy -a long time after I was grown. Old master and mistress died soon after -de war and then my family went to live wid young Master Mid on his -plantation on de other side of Saluda River. - -"When I got some over thirty years old I got married and then I left de -farm, moved lower down in Lexington County and went to work at a -sawmill. I worked in de sawmill business 'bout twenty-five years. -Rollin' big logs to de saw wid a kanthook ain't no easy job, but it was -better to do dat than nothin'. I made a pretty good livin' but didn't -save no money, 'cause money was scarce in them days, nobody was paid -much for their labor in them times. - -"Soon after I quit working in de sawmill business I moved to Columbia -and has been here every since. De white folks has been pretty good to me -here, 'cause I has had work most all de time. I has always been able to -pay my bills and support my family right good. I believes de reason of -dat is, I has never bothered nobody, and attended to my own little -business as best as I knowed. Even now, as old as I is, I can git work -from my white friends 'most all de time, dat's right. - -"Did I marry dat first gal what mammy fussed wid me 'bout? Listen at -dat. No sir, I ain't seen dat gal in 'bout fifty years and I don't know -if she is dead or not." - - - - -Gillam Lowden - - - *Interview with Gillam Lowden (75)* - *Greenwood, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born at Greenwood, S.C. about 1862. I can't 'member anything -'bout de Confederate War or anything right after de war. I heard my -mammy and daddy talk 'bout de patrollers but I don't know much. My daddy -was Abram Lowden and my mammy was Sidney Williams dat married my daddy. -Our marster in slavery was Dr. Davis, and his wife, our mistress, was -Miss Martha Davis. Dey didn't learn us to read and write. - -"Atter de war, my mammy always done washing on Sad'day atternoons, and -us little chaps helped to tote water and bring her wood. I 'member de -old brick oven our marster had. Dey cooked lots of bread on Sad'day -atternoons to last several days. Den we had corn-shuckings, de women had -quiltings. - -"Us chaps didn't play many games 'cept marbles, rope-skipping, and -jumping high rope. We didn't git to go to school. - -"Some of de cures dey made was from gypsum weed, which was boiled into a -tea and drunk. Thread-salve buds was picked and strung on thread like a -necklace, den put around de neck to keep off chills. - -"I jined de church when I was 31 years old, because I was seeking -salvation. I wanted God to release me from my sins and dat was de way I -had to do it. We can't git along widout Jesus. - -"I never did think anything 'bout Jeff Davis or Abraham Lincoln, and -don't know nothing 'bout Booker Washington." - - - - -Emma Lowran - - - *Interview with Emma Lowran* - *550 Horseshoe St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -A colored woman who states she was about four years old during slavery -times, states she doesn't remember much about those days, except what -her mother told her. Her mother was a slave and was given to Bill Smith, -otherwise known as "Big-eyed Smith", and they used to live on his -plantation somewhere between Glenn Springs and Spartanburg. The actual -possession of her mother was 'vested in Mrs. Bill Smith, as the mother -was presented to Mrs. Smith by her father. Her mother's work was around -the house, such as cleaning house, washing, milking the cows etc.; but -she never had to do the cooking for the Smith family. The source states -that she and the other children of slaves used to play in the sand and -have a good time--just as all children do. Sometimes Mr. Smith would go -to whip her mother for some reason, but Mrs. Smith wouldn't let him do -so, for she told her husband that the woman belonged to her and she was -not going to have her whipped. However, she stated she does not remember -ever seeing Big Eyed Smith whipping any slave, for his wife would always -stop him. As a whole, she and her mother were treated very kindly, -though at times they did not have enough to eat. Mrs. Smith would always -tell her mother who was milking to give the children plenty of milk. -This woman was too young to remember anything about the Yankee soldiers -coming to their place, but one day a black man came by the house and -told her mother she was now free. She states her mother continued to -work for Mr. Smith after she was set free. She was sent to school where -she learned to read and write, but when she became older, she came to -Spartanburg to live, because it looked like in the country, no one could -get a doctor out there until he or she was about dead; so she wanted to -be in town where she could get a doctor when she got sick. - - - - -Nellie Loyd - - - *I* - *Interview with Nellie Loyd* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was born in Union County, S.C., near Goshen Hill, about 91 years ago. -I belonged to Mr. George Buchanan. He went to the war and got his right -arm shot off. After the war, his sons moved to Oklahoma. He was good to -his slaves, and never allowed any negro under 12 years of age to work in -the fields. I helped around the house until I was 12 years old. - -"The soldiers were called 'minute men'. They had wide hats with palmetto -buttons in front. They sometimes mustered at Goshen Hill. Some of the -slaves was hanged for stealing, but my master never hanged any. - -"I married Nozby Loyd soon after the war, and had three children. I come -to Newberry about thirty years ago, and have worked with white families -or in the fields." - - *II* - *Interview with Nellie Loyd (91)* - *Newberry, S.C.* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I lived wid Albert and Carrie Coleman. Dey is no kin, but dey give me a -place to live. I am too old to work much, but I does what I can to help. - -"I was born near Goshen Hill in Union County, and I was a slave of Marse -George Buchanan. He give us good quarters to live in and plenty to eat. -He was a good master. I believe he never whipped any slaves, for I never -did hear of it if he did, and he never allowed anybody else to whip dem -either. - -"My grand-mother's mother come from Virginia. It was said she was kin to -de Indians. - -"I worked around de house most of de time. My mother cooked at de home -of Marse George. She kept de keys to de smokehouse where dar was always -plenty of home-raised smoked meat. Marse made his own flour, too. He -made salt by digging a deep hole in de ground and getting de mud dat had -salt in it. We never had our own gardens, but we had small watermelon -patches. Marse had a big garden. - -"Marse had a blacksmith shop and he used charcoal in it. To make de -charcoal he would cut down pine trees and pile de big limbs up and put -dirt over dem; den burn de limbs and dat would leave de charcoal. He -would pour water over it den. - -"Some of Marse Buchanan's boys went to war, and some of dem got killed. -Dey had patrollers den, and if dey caught you off de place dey would -have twelve men to whip you. - -"We never worked at night except sometimes when it rained and we had to -get de corn shucked or de fodder hauled to de barn. Sometimes we picked -cotton by de light of de moon. We worked on Saturday afternoons but not -on Sundays. On Christmas we had a good time and good things to eat. De -men would drink beer and whiskey. Beer was made from locusts and -persimmons, and everybody would drink some of it. - -"De slaves never learned to read and write. Dey never had any churches, -but dey had to go to church and so dey went to de white folks' church -and set in de back or de gallery. Niggers had lots of dancing and -frolics. Dey danced de 'flat-foot'. Dat was when a nigger would slam his -foot flat down on de floor. De wooden bottom shoes sho would make a loud -noise. At weddings everybody would eat and frolic. - -"We had our own leather made and tanned at home; den it was tacked to de -wood soles to make shoes. - -"When anybody got sick, de old folks made hot teas from herbs dat dey -got out of de woods. One was a bitter herb called 'rhu'. It was put in -whiskey and drunk to prevent sickness. Marse always give it to de nigger -children, and to de grown ups, too. Dey hung asafetida bags around de -necks of de kids to keep down sickness. - -"When freedom come, Marse said we was free, but he kept us till dat crop -was finished, and some of de niggers stayed on for several years and -worked for wages. - -"De yankees come through our section, and Marse hid his meat and things -in deep holes dat he dug in de cemetery. He built a fence around de -cemetery. De yankees took good horses and left poor ones. Dey made -niggers cook for dem all night. De Ku Klux wore white clothes and white -caps. Dey made out dey was ghosts from de cemetery, and dey would get a -man and carry him off, and we never would see him again. De Red Shirts -come in '76. I 'member my husband voted once or twice. He was a -Republican; but dey soon put a stop to dat. - -"I think Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson must have been all right; just -heard about them. Dey said dat Jeff Davis surrendered under a June apple -tree. Just heard about Booker Washington and dat is all I know. Reckon -he is doing good work. - -"I joined de church when I was quite young, because meningitis was in de -neighborhood killing so many folks and I got scared. - -"Atter de war de niggers started up hill; den went back. Since dat time -up to now, dey has been working most on farms. Some rent small farms and -some work as wage hands or share-croppers. Dem dat went to town have -worked as carpenters and other such work. - -"I can't 'member anything more, except dat marse had a still-house on -his place, and other farmers did, too. Dey made brandy and whiskey from -peaches, apples and grapes dat dey raised; den sold it to other farmers -in de neighborhood who didn't have as much as dey did." - - - - -Amie Lumpkin - - - *Interview with Amie Lumpkin, 88 years old* - *1411 Pine St. Columbia, S.C.* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -"I was born on de plantation of Master John Mobley, in Fairfield County, -South Carolina, in 1849. Both my parents was slaves on that plantation -at that time. Master Mobley had a big farm and he had many slaves and -chillun when I began to understand things there. My daddy worked in de -field, but my mammy worked in de big house, helpin' to cook. - -"There was pretty good order on de plantation, generally at de time in -1856, when I was 'bout seven years old. Most of de slaves go right along -doin' their chores, as expected of them, but a few was restless, and -they break de rules, by runnin' 'bout without askin', and always there -was one or two who tried to escape slavery by goin' far away to the -North. - -"I 'member seein' one big black man, who tried to steal a boat ride from -Charleston. He stole away one night from Master Mobley's place and got -to Charleston, befo' he was caught up with. He tell the overseer who -questioned him after he was brought back: 'Sho', I try to git away from -this sort of thing. I was goin' to Massachusetts, and hire out 'til I -git 'nough to carry me to my home in Africa.' - -"It was de rule when a trial was bein' held lak this, for all de bosses -and sometimes de missus to be there to listen and to ask the run'way -slave some questions. After this one talked, it was Missus Mobley -herself who said; 'Put yourself in this slave's shoes, and what would -you do? Just such as he has. The best way to treat such a slave is to be -so kind and patient with him, that he will forget his old home.' - -"He was led away and I never did hear if he was whipped. He lak a -Cherokee Indian, he never whimper if he should be whipped 'til de blood -stream from him; but I do know he never got away again. He was de first -one to pick up his hat and laugh loud, when President Lincoln set all -slaves free in January, 1863. He say: 'Now I go, thank de Lord, and he -strike right out, but he not git much beyond de barn, when he turn and -come back. He walked in de yard of de big house, and he see Missus -Mobley lookin' out at him. He take off his hat and bow low and say: - -"Missus, I so happy to be free, that I forgits myself but I not go 'til -you say so. I not leave you when you needs a hand, 'less de master and -all de white folks gits home to look after you. - -"De missus look down at her feet end she see de black man, so big and -strong, sheddin' tears. She say to him: 'You is a good nigger and you -has suffered much; make yourself at home, just as you have been doin' -and when you want to go far away, come to me and I'll see that you git -'nough money to pay your way to Boston and maybe to Africa.' And that is -what happen' a year or two later. - -"My daddy go 'way to de war 'bout this time, and my mammy and me stay in -our cabin alone. She cry and wonder where he be, if he is well, or he be -killed, and one day we hear he is dead. My mammy, too, pass in a short -time. I was sixteen when Sherman's army come through Fairfield County. I -see them ridin' by for hours, some of them laughin' and many of them has -big balls in their hands, which they throw against de house and it -explode and burn de house. - -"I have always 'spected that am just de way they set de houses when -Columbia was burned in a single night. Some of de houses in Fairfield -was burned, some in Winnsboro, and others in de country, but Columbia -was de only place that was wiped out. As de army pass, we all stand by -de side of de road and cry and ask them not to burn our white folks' -house, and they didn't. - -"I came to Columbia in 1868, and for a time I cooked in one or two of de -hotels, then running in Columbia. About 1878, I was employed as cook in -de home of de late W.A. Clark, and I stayed there, in de servant's -quarters, on de place 'til I became too feeble to continue. - -"It has been one of de big pleasures of my life that I has so many fine -white friends, and so far as I knows, de good will of all de black folks -as well. While workin' at Mr. Clark's home, which stood in a fine grove -of magnolias at the corner of Elmwood Avenue and Park Street I never -thought I should live to see it fade away. But you know it did, since de -big stone mansion was torn away and de Junior High School now stands in -that grove. - -"While there, I think it was about thirty years service, I saw many of -de leading white folks of de city and state, as guests there; they, at -least many of them, still befriend me. De remnants of de Clark family -treat me fine when they see me, and sometimes they drive by to see me. -Of course, I had a pretty nice little roll of money when I got too old -to work reg'larly but it has all been spent since. One day I's thinkin' -'bout it and I recalls de sayin' of my Missus Mobley. She say: 'Money -has wings and it soon fly away.' - -"For de last twelve years now, I has been de guest of Missus Ruth Neal, -a fine Christian woman and a teacher in de public schools. She always -treat me just as though I be her mother. My white friends have not -forgot me to date and they enable me to live, without too much aid from -my present benefactor. Her chillun, all in school now, call me 'Auntie.' -Lookin' over my life it seems to me, I has done de best I could to live -right and I have a hope that when de summons comes my Lord will say: -'Well done, Amie.'" - - - - -Ballam Lyles - - - *Interview with "Uncle" Ballam Lyles (74)* - *Carlisle, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Likker puts de wrong ideas in people's haids. I see dat ever since de -time I shed my shirt tail. When dey gits likker in dem, dey thinks dey -is important as de president. All o' 'em wants to act like millionairs. -And if de truth be known, ain't narry one uv 'em worth killing. Likker -jes' brings 'em down to dat. It'll do anybody like dat. It don't make no -difference how rich dey is nor how white dey is. It'll sho' ruin 'em. -And de niggers, it does dem de same way, 'cept dey don't have as far -down to come as de white folks does. And dat's de reason I ain't got no -use fer no likker. - -"When I was a lil shirt-tail boy, I recollects our soldiers gwine from -house to house wid packs on dere backs. Dey was de awfullest looking -white folks dat us had ever seed. Dat picture still stay right clear in -my mind, even if I is a old man wid everything a growing dim. Dey sot up -a camp at Marse's Bill Oxner's place--dat in Goshen Hill and ain't -nothing much left dar fer you to see now. Dem soldiers never had nothing -in dere packs but a few old rags and maybe a lil keepsake from de women -folks back home what dey loved. Dere hair was dat long and stringy dat -it was all matted around de face and neck. 'Cause in dem days, all de -fine white mens wore beards, kaise dat was de fashion. But dem soldiers' -beards looked wusser dan dere hair. Dere faces carried de awfullest look -what you is ever seed on any man's face. Dere clothes looked wusser dan -any darky's clothes had looked 'fo de war. None o' dem never had no -garments a fittin 'em. Us'd look out and say, 'Yonder comes some mo' o' -dem old lousy soldiers.' - -"Wheeler's soldiers come to Mr. Oxner's place and burnt de crib and tuck -all our corn and jes' wasted it. Den dey tuck our meat and carried on -something scandalous. Dey stayed a day or two and when dey had 'stroyed -everything and scared us all half to death, dey went on somewheres -else." - - - - -Eison Lyles - - - *Interview with Eison Lyles (73)* - *Santuc, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -_REMINISCENCES_ - -"Dey comes slow--dem things you calls recollects, or whatever it is; but -I knows what I is talking about, dat I does. My daddy named Aaron Lyles. -Him and Betsy Lyles was my parents. She come from Virginia. Deir white -folks, de Lyles, brought dem from Virginia to Maybinton, S.C. - -"I was too little to know much of de old war, but jes' can remember -living wid Mr. Alf Wright when de horn blow, saying dat de war was done -over. I thought Jedg'ment Day done come! - -"I soon learn't to put up 'hopper'. Dat was hanging up strong ash wood -and hickory ashes in a bag dat was wet, so dat de lye would drip out in -a box whar soap was made. When de moon got right, de grease was biled -off de bones and put in de lye; den it was cooked up into soap. It was -done on de increase of de moon and only a sassafras stick was used for -stirring. De soap maker stirred from her all de time. When a real hopper -was made, it was in a V shape, wid a trough underneath for de drippings. -Dat is all of de kind of soap folks had in dem hard times. If it was too -strong when you took a bath, de skin would come off. Hard soap was used -for washing, and soft soap for clothes. Another thing we did wid lye, -was to shell corn and put de grains in lye and clean it. When it come -white, we called it 'hominy'. - -"Things slip me sometimes, dat is, dey slips my memb'ance. I reckons dat -old Gordam Mill was run by water, down yonder on Tyger River. Tyger -separates Maybinton from Goshen Hill. Mr. Bill Oxner had de post office, -and he lived up in a big grove whar de squirrels was real tame and loved -to play. - -"When we lived on de old Lyons place I got acquainted wid Mr. Bob Lyons. -His family refuged from Charleston to Maybinton during de war, and dey -stayed dar until he died; den his folks went back to Charleston. I -know'd Mr. Jim Thomas, den. - -"My father went from dat to Herbert's. We had it hard dar. Had so many -ups and downs, and de overseer was hard on us, too. As to age, I ain't -so sho about my right age, but I been old enough to sleep by myself for -a long time. Folks knows me well and I stands well wid dem, and I tries -to stand well wid God. My name was down in de old Lyles Bible, but it -done burn't now. Miss Ellen done dead and ain't none of my set of Lyles -living dat I knows de wharabouts of. I was born over on de Newberry -side, so dey says; but dat don't matter, I knows de Union side jes' as -well. - -"I lived wid Mr. Byars at Herbert's on a big plantation. Oh, Lawdy, I -couldn't remember how many plows dey run down dar. I was gitting big -enough to go to see de gals, and I sho had to walk a fur ways to see -'em. De first buggy in dat country belonged to Mr. Epps Tucker. He had a -net to go on de horse to keep de flies off'n him. Dat's de first horse -wid a net on him to come to Gilliam's Chapel. - -"I run around four or five years for nature and for fun. Had in mind -picking a wife, and I got one dat I like de looks of in about four -years. Us up and married. I know'd Dr. Cofield, Dr. Geo. Douglas, Dr. -Peak Gilliam and men like dat. Things run along all right till de night -of August 31, 1886. Dat night dis old man prayed, 'O Lawd, come down, we -need You. We need You and we need You bad. Ain't no time for chillun's -foolishness, so don't send your Son, Jesus Christ, kaise it's You we -needs. Dat earth sho was shaking everywhars, and things was falling. De -Lawd or something had things by de hand dat night. Next day de Lawd -heard folks prayers and stopped dat earth's gwines on. Of all de ups and -downs, I spec dat was de worst scared I ever was. - -"Atter dat us built St. Luke, and we had logs for seats. We marched -together and sung: 'Let's go down to de water and be baptized. I -promised de Lawd dat I'd be baptized when St. Luke was finished. 'Ligion -is so sweet, 'ligion is so sweet.' - -"Little boys watched us while us was building St. Luke's. Dey would play -in de branch and sing: 'Little boy wouldn't swim, kaise leather tacked -to his shoe'. Den dey would catch hands and jump up and down on de bank -and sing: 'Loop de la--loop de loop de la; Deacon coming out, deacon -coming out.' - -"Den all would run to de shade trees and put on deir clothes. And when -us finished St. Lukes, such a baptizing as us had! All of us marched -down to de pool while we sung: - - Let's go down to de water and be baptized. - 'Ligion is so sweet, I's promised de Lawd I'd be baptized; - 'Ligion is so sweet, and I's promised de Lawd I'd be baptized." - - - - -Moses Lyles - - - *Interview with Moses Lyles, 81 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Moses Lyles lives in the section of Fairfield County that borders on -Broad River. He lives in a two-room house, of the 'saddlebag' type, with -his wife, Carrie, and his daughter, Carita. The home is the ordinary -tenant house of a Negro in the South. Pictures, cut out of the -illustrated Sunday editions of newspapers, are used to decorate the -inside walls of the rooms. There are two windows to each room, which are -closed with plank shutters. The floors are clean and yellowed from much -scouring and sweeping. On the outside is a tiny walk to the house, -bordered on either side by rows of jonquils. And about the yard are -'butter and egg' flowers, that were so much in vogue in slavery times. - -"Yes sir, I was a slave. I b'long to Dr. John J. McMahon, dat is, my -mammy was his cook. My father b'long to Marse Thomas Lyles. Deir -plantations jined and folks could see 'cross de fields from one house to -another. I never hear 'bout any trouble dat was caused by pappy comin' -every so often to see and be wid my mammy. - -"My mistress name Sarah. Her and Marster John was de father and mother -of young Marster John J. McMahon, a lawyer. My old marster and mistress -have two girls, Miss Annie and Miss Lillie, dat was livin' when Marster -die. Just a few weeks after he die, here come young Marse John into a -troubled land, in de last year of de war, '65. What you think of dat? -Niggers 'low dat's what give him de power dat him have. You never hear -'bout dat? Well, they do say, when a male child come after de father's -death, dat male child gwine to be a big man in all sorts of ways. How -was him great? What did him do? Why everything. Widout a daddy and -widout money, him got to be a 'fessor in de college and a lawyer. He -tell de judge what's what in dat very court house over yonder. Git to be -de head of all de teachers in de State and show them how to learn de -chillun. He come back sometimes and show farmers how to farm. Know how -to cure my dog of de mange, show my wife how to cure her chickens dat -had de 'pip', and tell us what to do if ever a cow git sick wid de -hollow horn or de hollow tail. Why, Marse John could count all de stars -in de sky, tell you deir names while settin' on de top rail of de lot -fence at night; git up de nex' mornin', look 'round and say whether it -gonna rain or not, dat day. He not tell by de sky, but just go out, run -his fingers through de grass, and dat grass tell him, somehow, it gonna -rain or it not gonna rain. How him love dat old place, and de Salem -cross road and Monticello. Him was riding high in de saddle of might and -power down dere in Columbia. Him come home and say to me and Carrie: 'I -love dis old place, wid its red hills and gullies, its pine trees, ash -trees, hickory trees and scaly bark trees, de berry weeds and thistles -'bout de barnyard fence and I want to be buried up here, not in -Columbia, so dat de weeds and grasses, dat I walk on when a boy, might -grow over me when I's dead.' Then him say: 'Mose does you know how to -castrate and spay pigs?' I say: 'I does not.' Him say: 'Time for you to -learn.' Us and de hands go out to de lot and wid de guff, guff, guff and -guffin' of de old hogs and de squealin' of de pigs, him take all -patience and learn me spayance and castration. - -"My pappy, as I might have told you, was Henry Lyles and my mammy, Mary -Woodward. My brudders and sisters was John, Henry, Martha, Sallie, Jim, -and de baby of all, Bill. Bill and me is de only ones livin'. - -"One day I was plowin' 'long and a thinkin' a whole lot of foolishness -'bout social 'quality dat was bein' preached to us by de leaders of de -Radical 'Publican party, which I b'longed to. Nigger men lak dat kinda -talk, nigger women didn't lak it so much. They fear dat if nigger man -have a chance to git a white wife, they would have no chance wid de -nigger men. They was sure dat no white man would take a black wife, -'ceptin' it be a poor white trash man and then if they git one of them, -him would beat her and work her harder than in slavery time. - -"When I git to de end of de row, I say: 'Whoa!' I turns my back to de -plowstock, ketches my hands on de handles and say to myself: 'De great -Moses in de Bible have a black wife. What is good 'nough for him is just -too good for me.' Then Carrie flit through my mind, as I see her de last -time in a red pokeberry dyed dress, a singin': 'Swing Low Sweet Chariot, -Jesus Gonna Carry Me Home'. Then I think 'bout dat word 'carry' in de -tune and dat word 'home' in de song and dat word 'me' twist and 'tween -them two words 'carry' and 'home', I says: 'Come 'round here, mule. Dat -sun soon go down; ain't got long here for to stay. You got to eat and -you's got to trot and I's got to ride. You's got to carry me to see -Carrie.' I went dat night and ask her for to be my wife. Her say: 'Dis -is mighty sudden, Mose. When de idea fust come to you?' Then I tell her -and she laugh. What she laugh 'bout? Laugh at de fool things I tell her -and de very joy of de moment. - -"Us marry dat fall and have had nine chillun. Who they? Dere's Henry, -Tozier, Lydia, McGee, Nancy, Tolliver, Bessie, May, and Carita. Carita -name Carrie for her mammy but her loll it 'bout her tongue and change it -to Carita. - -"Old Marse Dr. John McMahon was of de buckra type. Freedom come too -soon. De nigger was de right arm of de buckra class. De buckra was de -horn of plenty for de nigger. Both suffer in consequence of freedom." - - - - -George McAlilley - - - *Interview with George McAlilley, 84 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -George McAlilley lives with his son-in-law, daughter, and small -grandchildren, in a one-room frame house, with a lean-to shed room -annex. The annex has no fireplace, no window, is ten feet by eight feet -in dimension and it is in this pen that George and the two small -children sleep. The house is three miles north of the town of Winnsboro, -set back in a cotton field, 500 yards east of US #21. - -George gathers the firewood from the neighboring woods, picks -blackberries in summer, and assists in the harvesting of cotton from the -fields in September. - -"You think I feeble? Looks is 'ceivin' sometimes. Dere is some stren'th -in me yet. Just set a nice dish of collards, fat back, corn bread, and -buttermilk befo' dis old nigger and you can see what dese old gums can -do wid them. 'Spects I can make 'way wid a plate of fried chicken, too, -quick as de nex' one. If you don't believe it, try me dis day, at dinner -time! - -"I was born in slavery time, on Mr. Jno. S. Douglas's plantation, close -to Little River. I b'long to him. He told me I was born in 1853. Had it -wrote down in a book. When I was birthed, de master set de date down in -a book, wid de name of my pappy, Joe and my mammy, Rachael. Bless de -Lord! They b'long to de same master and live on de same place, in a -teency log house. I 'members it. I sho' does. De roof leaked and us had -a time when it rain. - -"My mistress name Miss Maggie; she was a fine woman. Come from de Boyce -stock, a buckra. I tells you dere was no finer mistress in de land, than -she was. She was good to her little niggers; special, I 'low! I was one -of them. - -"Us had a white overseer, Mr. Erwin. If it hadn't been for my mistress, -'spect he'd a wore de hide off me one time when he ketched me in de -watermelon patch. - -"What kind of work I do? Hoe cotton, pick cotton, pick peas, mind de -cows and keep de calf off at milkin' time. I plowed some de last year of -de war, '65 it was. - -"My marster and mistress was very 'ligious in deir 'suasions. They was -Seceders and 'tended Hew Hope Church. When us went dere, us went up in -de gallery. No piano nor organ was 'lowed in de church them days. I set -up dere many a Sabbath and see Marse Robin Stinson knock his fork on de -bench, hold it to his ear, and h'ist de tune. Then all jine in and let -me tell you it had to be one of de Bible psalms, by de sweet singer of -Israel, and no common glory hallelujah hymn. No sir, they didn't -tolerate deir chillun engagin' in breakin' de Sabbath in dat way! - -"It sorta comes to my mind dat in de summer time after crops was lay by, -us went to hear one of our color expound de word in a brush harbor, nigh -Feasterville. His name was Alfred Moore, de pappy of Isaiah and Phillip -Moore. You sho' knows them two. 'Member us had to git a pass to go to -dat meetin'. Patarollers (patrollers) was dere, and if you didn't have a -pass you got a whippin' and was sent home. Can I tell you some of de -tales dat Isaiah and Phillip Moore used to tell? Yes sir! When you gits -through wid me, I'll tell you one or two. - -"No sir, I never marry durin' slavery time. I was just a boy; wasn't too -young to like de gal's company, though. Marse John was a rich man; had -two plantations. One was de home place and de other de river place, -where de corn, oats, and hay was raised. He had a flock of sheep, too. - -"All of our clothes was made from wool and cotton dat was made right -dere on de plantation. Wool was sheared from de sheep. Cotton was picked -from de field. De cotton was hand-carded, took to de spinnin' wheels, -made into thread, loomed into cloth, sewed into clothes, or knitted into -socks and stockin's. - -"Marster had a hoss-gin and a screw-pit, to git de seed out de cotton -and pack de lint into bales. My brothers was Vince, Bill, Sam, and John. -My sisters was Mary and Liza. - -"Does I recollect de Yankees? I sho' does. They burnt de gin-house and -school house. Took de mules, hosses, chickens, and eggs. Marster was -sharp 'nough to bury de meat in de woods, 'long wid other things they -didn't git. They set de house afire at de last, and rode off. Us put de -fire out and save de mansion for Marse John. - -"I didn't jine de church in slavery time; lak to dance then. Our fiddler -was Buck Manigo, de best fiddler, black or white, in de State, so white -folks say. - -"Ku Klux didn't come 'round our parts. My ma stay on as cook, after -freedom. I stay for $5.00 a month and eat at de kitchen. I was always a -democrat and weared a red shirt in de Hampton parades. - -"I marry Patsy Jenkins. She live twenty years and us had seven chillun. -Did you know, boss, after Patsy dead and buried, I got to be a old fool -'bout women again? Dat I did. De devil put it into dis old gray head to -marry a young gal; Mary Douglas was her name. Joy come dat fust night -and misery popped in de door de very nex' mornin'. Us couldn't 'G' 'bout -nothin'. She, at de last, left me for 'nother man over on de Broad River -side. I's steered my course clear of de women's skirts ever since. I's -now livin' wid my grand-daughter, Irene Wilson, 'bove town. - -"'Bout de tale you want to hear. Well, Preacher Alfred Moore, a colored -slave, search de scripture for names for his chillun. One boy him name -Isaiah and one name Phillip. They both was mighty good slaves of Dr. -Walter Brice, our doctor. My marster and Dr. Price's son, Marse Thomas, -marry sisters and I see a heat of Isaiah and Phillip. Isaiah had a tale -'bout Niggerdemos (Nicodemus) and Phil had a tale 'bout a eunuch. Which -one you want to hear? Both? I's gittin' tired. I'll just tell Isaiah's -tale 'bout Niggerdemos. You has seen de blisters on sycamore trees? I -knows you have. Well, Isaiah 'low they come 'bout in dis way: In de days -of de disciples dere was a small colored man named Niggerdemos -(Nicodemus), dat was a republican and run a eatin' house in Jerusalem. -He done his own cookin' and servin' at de tables. He heard de tramp, -tramp, tramp of de multitude a comin', and he asked: 'What dat goin' on -outside?" They told him de disciples done borrowed a colt and was havin' -a parade over de city. Niggerdemos thought de good Lord would cure him -of de lumbago in his back. Hearin' folks a shoutin', he throwed down his -dish rag, jerked off his apron, and run for to see all dat was gwine on, -but havin' short legs he couldn't see nothing'. A big sycamore tree -stood in de line of de parade, so Niggerdemos climbed up it, goin' high -'nough for to see all. De Savior tell him: 'Come down; we gwine to eat -at your house, Niggerdemos'. Niggerdemos come down so fast, when he hear -dat, he scrape de bark off de tree in many places. Niggerdemos was sho' -cured of de lumbago but sycamores been blistered ever since. Nex' time -you pass a sycamore tree, look how it is blistered. Isaiah is asleep -now, in de white folks graveyard at Concord Church. I's seen his -tombstone. On it is wrote his age and day of his death. B'low dat, is -just dis: 'As good as ever fluttered'. His young Marster Tommie put it -dere." - - - - -Ed McCrorey (Mack) - - - *Interview with Ed McCrorey (Mack), 82 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"Yas sah, I was born in slavery time, on de Lord's Day. I 'members mammy -tellin' me, but just which month, I disremembers dat. De year done gone -out my 'membrance, but I is eight-two. You'll have to help figger dat -year out for me. It was befo' de Yankees come, 'cause I see them then. I -good size chap, I was dat day. - -"My marster was Wateree Jim McCrorey. My mistress name Miss Sara. Sure -she de wife of Marster Jim. Does I recollect de chillun? 'Spect I can -name most of them. Young Marster Bill marry a Miss Harper kin to de old -Jedge Harper. Miss Sara, her marry a Beaty, a buckra, and Marster John -got killed in de war. - -"My father was name Washington, after General George Washington, though -he got nothin' but 'Wash' in de handlin' of his name. My mammy name -Dolly, after de President's wife 'Dolly'. De white folks tell mammy dat -her was name for a very great lady. You ask me why I say father and not -say mother? Well boss, let me see; maybe I regard father, but I loves -mammy. My white folks say father but I learnt on de breast and knees of -mammy to say mammy, and dat's a sweet name to dis old nigger, which and -how I ain't gonna change 'less her changes it when I git to heaven bye -and bye. - -"Marster Jim live on Wateree Creek. Had big plantation and a heap of -slaves. Maybe you knows de place. Marster Troy own it, after de war. De -Yankees never burn up de house. It catch afire from a spark out de -chimney of de house dat Marster Troy was habitatin' then. Yas sah, -Yankees took all they could carry way, but didn't touch de house. -Marster Troy kept a bar and lots of poor white trash continually 'round -dere smokin'. 'Spect some of them no 'count folks caused de fire. - -"Lord bless you! Yas sah, us had plenty to eat and wear; wore shoes in -winter, though they were sorta stiff, de wooden bottoms make them dat -way. Us boys run 'round in our shirt tails in summer time. Us lak dat! - -"What I lak best to eat in them times? 'Lasses and pone bread for -breakfast; roastin' ears, string beans, hog jowls, bread and buttermilk -for dinner; and clabber and blackberry cobbler for supper. Them's good -eatin's I tell you! - -Did I ever git a whippin'? Lordy, Lordy! did I? Once I 'members one -moonlight night 'bout midnight, a gettin' up off my pallet on de floor, -goin' out in de sugar cane patch and gittin' a big stalk of de cane. -When I gits back to our house, young Marster Jim ketch me and say: 'Dat -you Ed?' I'd lak to deny it was me, but dere I was, ketch wid de cane on -me. What could I say? I just say: 'Please Marster Jim, don't tell old -marster, just do wid me what you laks'. He make his face grim and -sentence come from his mouth: 'Ten lashes and privilege of eatin' de -cane, or five lashes and de cane be given de pigs in de pen; lashes -'plied wid a hame string on de bare back and rump'. Dat last word seem -to tickle him and he laugh. Dat brightened me some. 'Which you goin' to -take', say young marster. I say, 'I wants de sugar cane, Marster Jimmy, -but please make de lashes soft as you can'. Then he git stern again, -took me by de hand, lead me to de harness house, got a hame string and -say, 'Now don't you bellow, might wake mother'. Then he give me de ten -lashes and they wasn't soft a-tall. I didn't cry out on de night wind -though. Dat ended it. - -"My white folks 'tended Wateree Church. I never went to church in time -of slavery, though. I now b'longs to de Big Zion African Methodist -Church in Chester, S.C. What I feel lak when I jine? I felt turnt all -'round, new all over. It was lak I never had been, never was, but always -is to be 'til I see Him who clean my heart. Now you is teched on sumpin' -dat I better be quiet 'bout. - -"I marry Emily Watson, sumpin' 'bout her attractive to all men, white -men in particular. After I got four chillun by her, one of de big white -men of de county have a ruction wid his widow-wife and step chillun. -They left him. Emily was a cookin' for him. It wasn't long befo' she -quit comin' home at night. I leaves de place. Emily have four chillun by -dat white man. One of my chillun by Emily, is a street sweeper for de -town of Winnsboro. 'Spect he is fifty years old. Dat was our oldest -child. De second one up and marry a preacher, Rev. Brown. De other two -in New Jersey and they make a heap of money they say, but I never see de -color of dat money. - -"Our neighbors was Gen. Bratton and Capt. Ed. P. Mobley. Both powerful -rich men and just 'bout set de style of polite livin'. Everybody looked -up to General Bratton, expected nothin', got nothin'. Everybody dat come -'round Marster Ed. P. Mobley, expect sumpin' and went away wid sumpin'. - -"After freedom, Marster Ed's son, Marster Mose, marry Miss Minnie -McCrorey; her de mother of Marster Bill Mobley, County Treasurer, -Richland County. She die and Marster Mose take another sister, Miss -Emma. Her son big doctor at Florence, S.C. - -"Does I know any funny stories? Does you want a true story? Yas? Well, -all Marster Ed Mobley's niggers lak to stay wid him after freedom. They -just stay on widout de whippin's. 'Stead of whippin's they just got -cussin's, good ones too. Dere was two old men, Joe Raines and Joe -Murray, dat he was 'ticular fond of. Maybe he more love Joe Raines de -bestest. One day Joe Murray let de cows git away in de corn field. At -dinner time Marster Ed cuss him befo' de whole crowd of hands, layin' -'round befo' dinner; and he cuss him powerful. After dinner Joe Murray -grieve and complain much 'bout it to de crowd. Joe Raines up and allow: -'Next time he cuss you, do lak I do, just cuss him back. Dis is a free -country, yas sah. Just give him as good a cussin' as he gives you'. - -"Not long after dat, de boar hog git out de lot gate, when Joe Murray -was leadin' his mule out. Marster Ed lit out on Joe Murray a cussin' and -Joe Murray lit out on Marster Ed a cussin', and then Marster Ed ketch -Joe and give him a slavery time whippin' and turn him loose. Joe Murray -take his mule on to de field, where he glum wid Joe Raines. Joe Murray -tell 'bout de boar hog gitting out and de cussin's and de whippin's. Joe -Raines allow: 'You didn't cuss him right. You never cuss him lak I cuss -him, or you'd a never got a whippin'.' Joe Murray allow: 'How you cuss -him then, Joe?' Say Joe Raines very slow, 'Well when I cuss Marster Ed, -I goes way down in de bottoms where de corn grow high and got a black -color. I looks east and west and north and south. I see no Marster Ed. -Then I pitches into him and gives him de worst cussin' a man ever give -another man. Then when I goes back to de house, my feelin's is satisfied -from de cussin' I have give him, and he is sure to make up wid me for -Marster Ed don't bear anger in his bosom long. De next time cuss him but -be sure to go way off somewhere so he can't hear you, nigger'. - -"Some time I sorry I's free. I have a hard time now. If it was slavery -time, I'd be better off in my body and easy in my mind. I stays wid my -daughter, Emily. My old marster, Wateree Jim, is de bestest white man I -has ever knowed. My race has never been very good to me. - -"I was too young to work much, just 'tend to de cows, carry water in de -fields, pick up chips, find de turkey and guinea nests. I's never voted -in my life, never been in jail in my life. Seem lak I's just a branch or -pond dryin' up on de road side, and de onliest friend I's got is de -President and dat good old dog of mine. - -"Goodbye and God bless you sir, 'til we meet again." - - - - -Richard Mack - - - *Interview with Richard Mack, 104 years old* - *Rosemont School, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C._ - -Richard Mack, a happy philosopher, 104 years old, in perfect mental and -physical condition, is still working as janitor of the Rosemont school. -He is of the aquiline type, with eyes bright and deep set, and a black -skin with a red light shining through, showing Indian relationship. - -"I was born in Limestone, Va. My first master was Green Bobo. I was sold -when I was ten years old; not really sold, but sold on a paper that said -if he didn't take care of me, I would come back--a paper on me--a kind -of mortgage--speculators bought negroes and sell um. Missis, I never had -a stripe put on me. I had a privilege of being among all people." -(Richard Mack enjoyed every experience of his life and has no root of -bitterness in his nature). "Then I come to South Carolina. My mother, -Jane, she live to be 108; she come to South Carolina too. We got back -together again," (he paused with a bright smile) "Orangeburg, at Captain -Cherry's--Captain Cherry here in Charleston is related to him--Cherry -Plantation is there now; Captain Cherry had plenty of money. - -"Tony was my father, a carriage driver; he wore his tall hat and fine -clothes (livery) and he was a musician--played the violin at the Academy -on the 'old Ninety-Six Road'. All the white people educated their -children there, and they had parties. Oh, the beautifulest ladies--they -wore long dresses then and had long hair--the beautifulest! My -father--Daddy Tony, they call him--he was a musician--always played the -violin." Here he mentioned the names of songs of that day, before the -War of 1861, and repeated these words with much merriment: - - Would have been married forty year ago, - If it hadn't been for Cotton Eye Joe - -"Songs--lots of um-- - - Run nigger, run, de Patrol ketch you - -He roared with laughter--"When de patrol come, I had my badge; I show -him my paper and my badge! I got it still. I love dem days--I love dem -people. - -"My mother was a good woman--she used to get down on her knees, like -this, and get up like this," (he knelt with agility, and rose -unassisted, quickly, and without the least difficulty). "My aunt lived -to be 141; she saw George Washington--she told me so. - -"Cherokee--Kickapoo--I don't remember--my great grandfather was an -Indian Chief--my nose is straight, see here." He went into the pocket of -his overall, brought out a pair of eyeglasses, put them on the end of -his nose, and looked over them. - -"I loved dem days, I loved dem people. We lived better--we had no -money--we had nothing to worry about--just do your task. Spin wheel and -reel and reel for the yarn. I filled my arms full of quilt--hand made. -Had task; I done all my task, and I help others with their task so they -wouldn't get whipped; if people lazy and wont do, they got to be made to -do; if children bad they get whipped--if nigger bad, they get a -whipping. - -"Old Satan wear a big shoe--he got one club foot. He can disguise -himself--he make you think he got power, but he ain't got any power. He -get you in trouble and leave you there. I always pray for wisdom and -understanding like Solomon. I pray all the time to our good Father. -People say--'Why you call him Good Father?'" (Quoted from the Bible) "I -love everybody--'Love thy neighbor as thyself.' - -"Yes Ma'am! Oh Heaven!--we got to be clean--we change out of the flesh -to the spirit; a crown prepared for us; all we save and help are stars -in our crown; you go from Mansion to Mansion--higher--higher." (He -raised his arms with a rapt look) - -Then he was told about "Green Pastures" and asked what he thought of it. -"Why my Lord have Mercy! The Lord is a Spirit--we are changed. - -"I roll the carpet for Missis to get in the carriage; a two-foot carpet -from the house roll to the stoop for the carriage. - -"My mother--yes Ma'am--108 years old--a smart woman in the house. Oh my -Lord, Missis--cook! She wouldn't kill a chicken out of the yard; she had -a coop to put them in, and it was cleaned out every day. My mother would -fix the flowers; she would take this little flower, and that little -flower, and put them together, and make up a beautiful bouquet, and hand -them out to everybody. My father knew all about planting; the people -would come to ask 'Daddy Tony' how to plant this and when to plant that. - -"I heard all the War talk, I saw a comet." (Indicating its position in -the heavens, he seemed inspired, forgot his surroundings, looking back). -"I saw the curtain-cloud--and snow clouds--rolls and rolls. In the War I -was with my master, Capt. Cherry, and Dr. Knox, Captain in the Civil -War, and Capt. Dick McMichael--all those fine gentlemen. They had -hog-skin saddles that creaked--Crench--crench--as they rode;" (He was -enthusiastic) "the way they could ride! Those hosses were as sensible as -people; they could jump from side to side; they knew everything. - -"Capt. Cherry said to me--'Why weren't you white! Why weren't you white! -Why weren't you white!' I lost my old Captain--then I was with Gen. -Frank Bamberg, and with his brother, Capt. Isaac Bamberg--I was Orderly. -Sometimes in the War we had one hardtack a day, and had to drink water -on 'um, to make 'um swell. We had to get out salt out of water, most -anywhere." - -"I saw Gen. Lee many times; I knew him; he had his close beard around -his face; he looked fine and sat his horse so splendid." Mack was asked -the color of the horse, and described the gray. Here he remembered the -battlefield--"I did this"--he enacted silently--dexterously--the placing -of the dead and wounded on the stretchers and bearing them away--worked -so rapidly that his breath was labored. "I made the balloon flight--my -eyes were good--they carried me because any object that I saw, I knew -what it was; a rope ladder led up to the basket--the beautiful thing--we -went up on the other side of Beaufain street; there were no houses there -then, and we came down on the Citadel Green." - -Mack had spoken several times with enthusiasm of the officer's cavalry -'pump sole boots'. After he had polished them, "Capt. Edwards (of -Elloree) gave me a $500.00 bill for cleaning his 'pump sole boots'." -Mack proudly enacted the Captain's jolly but pompous manner, as he gave -the bill, and added, "I had thousands of dollars in Confederate money -when the War broke up. If we had won I would be rich." - -After War period: "The time Capt. Wade Hampton was stumping I followed -him all over the State; I led 500 head; was with him to Camden, -Orangeburg and all the way to Hampton County; led 500 Negroes through -the County; I was Captain of them; I rode 'Nellie Ponsa' and wore my red -jacket and cap and boots; I had a sword too; my 'red shirt' died year -before last." - -Asked if he knew 'Riley', Mack answered promptly--"'Democrat Riley', yes -Ma'am, used to drive that fine carriage, and old Col. Cunningham's -family." Riley was an ex-slave, a tall black man, devoted to the South, -as he was, a Democrat of high principle, and respected by all--hated by -many--a power in himself. - -"I lose all my ancestors. I got a niece, Queenie Brown, in Orangeburg; I -got a daughter in New Jersey; one in New York, married to a Clyde Line -man; lost sight of both; both old. - -"Bless the Lord! I got friends! Mr. Pooser came to see me yesterday; -been in South America four years; just got back and hunt me up right -off! Married Miss Dantzler of Orangeburg--I raised them all"--with a -benign look of love end ownership. - - - - -Jake McLeod - - - *Interview with Jake McLeod, 83 years old* - *Timmonsville, S.C.* - --_Mrs. Lucile Young and H. Grady Davis, Florence, S.C._ - -"You see what color I am. I born in Lynchburg, South Carolina de 13th -day of November, 1854. Born on de McLeod place. Grandparents born on de -McLeod place too. My white folks, dey didn' sell en buy slaves en dat -how-come my grandfather Riley McLeod fell to Frank McLeod en grandmother -fell to de McRaes. My boss give my grandfather to his sister, Carolina, -dat had married de McRae, so dey wouldn' be separated. Dey take dem en -go to Florida en when de Yankees went to Florida, dey hitched up de -teams en offered to bring dem back to South Carolina. Some of my uncles -en aunts come back, but my grandfather en grandmother stayed in Florida -till dey died. - -"De McLeods, dey was good people. Believe in plenty work, eat en wear -all de time, but work us very reasonable. De overseer, he blow horn for -us to go to work at sunrise. Give us task to do en if you didn' do it, -dey put de little thing to you. Dat was a leather lash or some kind of a -whip. Didn' have no whippin post in our neighborhood. I recollect my -boss unmercifully whipped man I thought, but I found out dat it was -reasonable. He (the slave) beat up my uncle (a slave) en my old boss put -it on him. Striped him down en tied him wid buckskin string. Whipped him -till he get tired en come back en whip him more. I looked right on at -it. When he turn him loose, told him to go. See him whip my mother one -time 'cause she whip me. Caught her by de hand en whip her right in de -same field dat she whip me. It was so hot I dig holes en put my foot in -de hole en dat de reason she whip me. Den if he find anyone steal a -thing, he whip dem for dat. - -"Dey didn' have no jails in dem days, but I recollects one woman hanged -on de galleries (gallows). Hang dem up by harness en broke neck for -wrongdoing like killin somebody or tryin to kill. Old woman cookin for -de Scotts, named Peggy, tried to poison de Scotts. Mean to her, she say, -en she put poison in de coffee. My mother walked 'bout 10 miles to see -dat hangin' 'cause dey turn de slaves loose to go to a hangin'. Took her -from de quarter in de wagon en I heard her tell dat de old lady, Peggy, -was sittin on her coffin. My mother say she used to use so much -witchcraft en some one whispered, 'Why don' you do somethin 'bout it?' -She say, 'It too late now.' I hear tell 'bout dem hangin', but I ain' -see none of it. - -"My boss had four slave houses dat was three or four hundred yards from -his house en I reckon he had 'bout 25 slaves. One was pole house wid -brick chimney en two rooms petitioned off en de other three was clay -house. Us had frame bed en slept on shucks en hay mattress. Dey didn' -give us no money but had plenty to eat every day. Give us buttermilk en -sweeten potatoes en meat en corn bread to eat mostly. Catch nigger wid -wheat, dey give him 'wheat'. Den dey let us have a garden en extra -patches of we own dat we work on Saturday evenings. En we catch much -rabbits en fish as us want. Catch pikes en eels en cats. Catch fish wid -hook en line in Lynches river wid Senator E.D. Smith's father. Rev. Bill -Smith de father of E.D. Smith. - -"De white folks, dey had a woman to each place to weave de cloth en make -all us clothes. De women had to weave five cuts a week, one cut a night. -Have reel in de shape of wheel en spokes turn en hold thread en turn en -when it click, it a cut. Any over, keep it to de next week. Dey wore -cotton clothes in de summer en wool clothes in de winter en had more den -one garment too. Had different clothes to wear on Sunday 'cause de -slaves go to de white folks church in dat day en time. Den dey had -shoemaker to come dere en make all de colored peoples shoes. De Durant -shoemaker come to de McLeod plantation en make dey shoes. - -"I tellin you my boss was a good man en he had a big plantation wid six -or seven hundred acres of land, but he didn' have to mind to see 'bout -none of de work. De overseer name Dennis en he was de one to look out -for all de plantation work. He lived on de McLeod place en he was good -man to us. I had to thin cotton en drop peas en corn en I was a half -[HW: hand] two years durin de war. If a whole hand hoes one acre, den a -half hand hoes half a acre. Dat what a half hand is. Waited on de -wounded de last year of de war. - -"Wheat, peas, corn en cotton was de things dat peoples plant mostly in -dem days. Dis how I see dem frail de wheat out. Put pole in hard land en -drive horse in circle en let dem stamp it out. You could ride or walk. -Two horses tramp en shake it out en den take straws en have somethin to -catch it in en wind it out. Had to pick en thrash a bushel of peas a -day. - -"When corn haulin time come, every plantation haul corn en put in circle -in front of de barn. Have two piles en point two captains. Dey take -sides en give corn shuckin like dat. Shuck corn en throw in front of -door en sometimes shuck corn all night. After dey get through wid all de -shuckin, give big supper en march all round old Massa's kitchen en -house. Have tin pans, buckets en canes for music en dance in front of de -house in de road. Go to another place en help dem shuck corn de next -time en so on dat way. - -"My old Miss en Massa, dey always look after dey slaves when dey get -sick. Use herbs for dey medicine. I used to know different herbs my -mother would get. Boneset en life-everlastin make teas for fever en -colds. When I was a boy, dey used to carry dem what have smallpox by de -swamp en built a dirt house for dem. Kept dem dere en somebody carried -feed to dem. People used to have holes in dey skin wid dat thing en most -of dem died. - -"I hear tell 'bout one man runnin away from Black Creek en gwine to Free -State. Catch ride wid people dat used to travel to Charleston haulin -cotton en things. He come back 'bout 15 years after de war en lived in -dat place join to me. Come back wid barrels en boxes of old second hand -clothes en accumulated right smart here. Talk good deal 'bout how he -associated wid de whites. Don' know how-come he run away, but dey didn' -catch up wid him till it was too late. De community have man den call -pataroller en dey business was to catch dem dat run away. Say like you -be authorized to look after my place, you catch dem dat slipped off to -another man place. Couldn' leave off plantation to go to another place -widout you ask for a pass en have it on you. White folks used to kill -beef what dey call club beef. If you kill beef this week, you send this -one en that one a piece till de beef all gone. White folks give me pass -en tell me carry beef en deliver it. Next time, another man send us -beef. - -"I run away one time en somehow another de overseer know whe' I was. I -recollects old Miss had me tied to de tester bedstead en she whip me -till de whip broke. I see her gettin another arm 'bout full en I tear -loose en run away. I slip home on steps at my mother's house lookin down -playin wid de cat en look up in her face. She say, 'You good for nothin, -you get out of here en get to dat barn en help dem shuck corn.' I go but -I didn' go in 'cause I keep a watch on her. Another time boss had a -horse apple tree dat just had one apple on it en he wanted to save dat -apple till it get ripe enough for seed en fall. White man, I couldn' -stand it. I eat dat apple. He put it on me dat time 'cause he saw my -tracks en dat how he knew it was me. He know it was me en I couldn' get -out of it. - -"I get married in '76. My old boss, we all went gether. Red Shirt -canvassed the country. People tried to get me to quit my wife 'cause dey -say de Democrats would bring back slavery. Some voted 8 or 10 tickets. I -was on de stand when Hampton spoke in Sumter. Chamberlain was elected on -de Republican ticket. Sam Lee one of de men. He was white. I believe he -was colored. Wade Hampton have him brought on de stand en ask questions. -Ask what kind of Government it gwine be. Dey had tissue tickets en -blindfolded man en he didn' take out tissue tickets. Name en number on -de ticket. - -"All I know 'bout de war dat bring freedom was dat de war was gwine on. -I remember when dey couldn' get coffee, sugar or nothin like dat. You -know dat was a tough time to think 'bout we couldn' get no salt. Cut up -potatoes en parch to make coffee. Sweetened wid syrup en fore de war -closed, made sugar from sugar cane. Boil dirt out de smoke house en put -liquor in food. Eat poke berry for greens. Den one day we hear gun fire -in Charleston en Miss made miration. I don' remember freedom, but I know -when we signed de contract, de Yankees give us to understand dat we was -free as our Massa was. Couldn' write, just had to touch de pin. Ask us -what name we wanted to go in. We work on den for one third de crop de -first year wid de boss furnishing everything. Soon as got little ahead -went to share-cropping. - -"I tell you it been a pretty hard time to be up against. I own dis here -place en my nephew live here wid me. Dey give him government job wid de -understandin he help me. Get $24.00 a month en live off dat. Daughters -in New York pay tax. If dey carry out de President's plan, it be a good -one. It been pretty tough in some instance. God sent thing. I tell you -it a good thing. If carried out like de President want it carried out, -it be better den slavery time. You know some slaves got along mighty bad -'cause most of de white people won' like our white folks. - -"I belongs to de Methodist church en I believe it de right thing. Man -ought to do as God arranged it 'cause he plan it. We know right from -wrong." - - - - -Bill McNeil - - - *Interview with Bill McNeil, 82 years old* - *Ridgeway, S.C.* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"In December 1855, de family Bible say, I was born on de McNeil Place in -York County. De last person who have dat Bible was Captain Conductor -True of de Southern Railroad trains. Had dis one name in dat Bible, just -'Bill' is set down on de page. I hear them say de Good Book am now in -Tennessee, but I wouldn't swear to dat. I was born 'bout twelve miles -from Chester Court House on a creek called Bullock or something lak dat. - -"My pappy name Will; my mammy name Leah. I was put down in de Book as -their child. When Miss Jane, daughter of old Marster McNeil, (I forgits -his first name) marry, then my new marster was Marster Jim True. Miss -Jane just up and marry Marster Jim and come wid him to Fairfield. Then -old Marster McNeil give me, my mammy, and brother Eli, to Miss Jane. - -"My pappy done passed out, ceased to live, befo' us come to Fairfield. -Him b'long to de Rainey family of York. Had to git a pass to see his -wife and chillun. Dat was one of de hard parts of slavery, I thinks. -Does I 'members Conductor True's name? Sho, I does. It was Thurston -True. When I git on de train him always slap me on de head and say: -'Well Bill, how your corporosity seem to sagasherate dis morning?' And I -say: 'Very galopshous, I thanks you, Captain'. Then us both laugh, and -he pass on down de coach and all de people on dat car 'steem me very -highly. I feel a little bigger than all de other niggers, all dat day -long, I sho does. - -"Does you know de Warren Castles' Place? 'Bout two miles from dere is -where us lived befo' freedom. Marster Jim True was killed in de war. Us -carry on then and make corn for de 'federate army. Our house had a dirt -floor and a stick and mud chimney. Us slept on a pallet on de floor. In -de summer time I run 'round in my shirt tail. - -"De overseer, Tom True, de daddy of Marster Jim was a rough and hard -task marster. After freedom I went to de Rembert Place, Wateree Creek, -then to de DesPortes' Place five miles from Winnsboro, then to de Jordan -Place on de Gum Tree Road, then to de Buchanan Place, then I buy seventy -acres from Mr. Jim Curlee and live there every since 1905. My wife was -there wid me and my daughter and her four chillun, Willie, Anne, Andy -and Henrietta Jackson. - -"I got a heap of whippin's in slavery time from old Marster Tom True. I -see lots of de Yankees and their doings in war time. They just ride -high, burn and take off everything from us, lak they did everywhere -else. - -"I vote de 'publican ticket, as I try to show my 'preciation, and dat -gits me in bad wid de Klu Klux. They scare me, but no touch me. De red -shirts try to 'suade me to vote their way. Some of de best white folks -was in dat movement, but this time I 'members old Tom True beating me -often for little or nothing. I sticks out to de end wid de party dat -freed me. - -"I find out, and you'll find out, boss, dat only de Lord is pure in de -beginning and to de end, in His plans. De works of man and parties lak -democrat and 'publican have their day; if they reign long enough de -people will mourn so de Bible say. - -"My old overseer, Marster Tom was a school teacher. I feel sorry for de -chillun he teached, 'cause him whip me just when him git out of sorts. -Miss Jane couldn't stop him, she just cry. - -"Yas sir, I have knowed good white men. Mr. Warren Castles was a good -man, and Manigault here in town is fit to go to heaven, when he die. I -sure dat he is, although he is a nigger. - -"My house and land worth $590.00, but I been going back'ards every year -for last eight years. Can't get labor, can't work myself. Wonder if you -white folks will help me get a pension. I's not going to beg. Dats my -last word." - - - - -Andy Marion - - - *Interview with Andy Marion, 92 years* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"Yes, sir, I was born befo' de war 'tween de white folks, on account of -us niggers. They was powerful concerned 'bout it and we was not. My -mammy always said she found me a babe in de chinkapin bushes, but you -can leave dat out if you want to. They say I comed into de world in -1844. I sho' was a good plow-hand when de first gun was fired at some -place down near Charleston; I think it was at Sumter. They say I was -born where Marster Eugene Mobley lives now, but it b'longed to Marster -William Brice, when I was born in 1844, bless God! My father named Aleck -and my mother Mary. Us colored folks didn't git names 'til after de war. -I took my name, when I went up to de 'lection box first time to vote for -Gen. Grant for president. My father was from old Virginia, my mother -from South Carolina. Our plantation had seventy-two slaves living about -here and yon in log houses wid dirt floors. They bored auger holes in de -sides of de room, stuck end of poles in dese holes. De pole reach' out -into de room and rested on wooden blocks sort of hollowed out on top; -then some slats of pine finish up de contraption bed. Quilts was spread -on dis which was all de bed we had. - -"I been married four times since de war and I'm here to tell you dat a -nigger had a hell of a time gittin' a wife durin' slavery. If you didn't -see one on de place to suit you and chances was you didn't suit them, -why what could you do? Couldn't spring up, grab a mule and ride to de -next plantation widout a written pass. S'pose you gits your marster's -consent to go? Look here, de gal's marster got to consent, de gal got to -consent, de gal's daddy got to consent, de gal's mammy got to consent. -It was a hell of a way! - -"I helped my marster 'mong de bullets out along de Mississippi River, -but I's glad we didn't whip them 'cause I's had four wives and dere is -de las' one settin' right over dere, a fixin' you some strawberries and -a shakin' her belly at me laughin' lak Sarah in de Bible and thinkin' of -namin' de child of her old age, 'Isaac'. - -"What kind of work I do in slavery? I was de carriage driver. Us had a -fine carriage and two high-steppin' horses, Frank and Charlie. I used to -hear lots of things from behin' me, while drivin' de folks and saying -nothin'. Money, did you say? We had no use for money. Kind words from de -white folks was money 'nough for me. We just worked hard, eat more and -slep' well. We got meat, hominy, and corn meal on Mondays and wheat -bread, lard and 'lasses on Saturdays. No time for fishin' or huntin'. -Married slaves was encouraged to have their own gardens. Our clothes was -of wool in de winter from our own sheep, and cotton in de summer from -our own fields. Had many spinnin' wheels and cards. Miss Mary, de -mistress, saw to dis part. - -"Our white folks was Psalm-singin', old style Presbyterians. You -daresn't whistle a hymn on Sunday which they called Sabbath. Just as -soon as I got free, I jined de Baptist church, hard shell. Brother -Wright is my preacher at Blackstock now. My marster, William Brice, his -wife, Miss Mary, his son, Christie, and his daughters, Miss Lizzie, Miss -Kitty and Miss Mary, was de ones I drove de carriage to Hopewell church -on Sunday for. Dat church is flourishin' now. De pastor of dat church, -Rev. John White, befo' he died I waited on him sixteen years, and in his -will, he give me dis house and forty acres around it for my life. Dat's -what I calls religion. My mistress was a angel, good, and big hearted. I -lay my head in her lap many a time. Marster had a overseer twice. They -was poor white trash, not as good as de niggers. Miss Mary run them both -off and told marster what she couldn't see to when he was away, she'd -pick out one of de slaves to see after. All de overseer done was to wake -us up, see to feeding stock and act biggity. Us slaves worked from sun -up to sun down. - -"Sometime befo' de war, my marster sold out and bought a big place in -Mississippi. On de way dere, de slaves (grown) was chained together. Yes -sir, de chain was 'round de necks. We went by wagons and steamboats -sometimes. We stayed in Mississippi 'til durin' de war we refugeed back -to South Carolina. Dat's when de Yankees got possession of de river. We -settled near New Hope church. It was in dis church dat I saw sprinkling -wid a kind a brush when baptizin' de chillun. Over at Hopewell, you had -to have a brass trinket (token) to show befo' you could take Communion -of de Saints. We was always compelled to go to church. Boss like for de -slaves to sing while workin'. We had a jack-leg slave preacher who'd -hist de tunes. Some was spirituals; my wife and me will sing you one -now, 'Got to Fight de Devil when You Come Up out de Water'." (This was -well rendered by the old man and his wife). "Nothing stopped for slave -funerals. De truth is, I can't 'member any dyin' on our places. None of -our slaves ever run away. - -"A pass was lak dis, on it was yo' name, what house you goin' to and de -hour expected back. If you was cotched any other house, pataroller whip -you sho'. Always give us Chris'mus Day. Dere was a number of dances dis -time of de year. Got passes to different plantations. Dere would be corn -shuckin' different places. Not much games or playin' in our set. Wife, -let's sing another spiritual. Come on Janie, let's sing 'You Got to Lay -Your Burden 'pon de Lord'. - -"Sickness of slaves was quickly 'tended to by de doctor. 'Member -gallopin' for old Doctor Douglas many a time. - -"I went to de war from Mississippi as body guard for my marstar. I was -close to de fightin' and see it. If it was hell then, it must be -tarnation now wid all dese air-planes flyin' roun' droppin' booms on old -people lak Janie and me, over dere fixin' them strawberries. De good -Lord, save us from a war over Blackstock and my garden out dere! - -"I was free three years befo' I knowed it. Worked along just de same. -One day we was in de field on Mr. Chris Brice's place. Men come along on -big, black horse, tail platted and tied wid a red ribbon. Stopped, waved -his hands and shouted 'You is free, all of you. Go anywhere you wants -to'. Us quit right then and acted de fool. We ought to have gone to de -white folks 'bout it. What did de Yankees do when they come? They tied -me up by my two thumbs, try to make me tell where I hided de money and -gold watch and silver, but I swore I didn't know. Did I hide it? Yes, so -good it was two years befo' I could find it again. I put everything in a -keg, went into de woods, spaded the dirt by a pine stump, put de keg in, -covered it up wid leaves and left it. Sometime after, we looked for it, -but couldn't find it. Two years later, I had a mule and cart in de -woods. De mule's foot sunk down into de old stump hole and dere was de -keg, de money, de silver and de watch. Marster was mighty glad dat I was -a faithful servant, and not a liar and a thief lak he thought I was. My -marstar was not a Ku Klux. They killed some obstreppary (obstreperous) -niggers in them times. - -"I first married Sara Halsey in 1875, she had three chillun. She died. -Ten months after, I took Harriett Daniels; she had three chillun, then -she died. Eight months after, I married Millie Gladden, no chillun. She -lived seventeen years, died, and ten years ago I fooled dat good-lookin' -Jane a-settin' over dere. She was a widow then, she was de widow Arthur. -She was a Caldwell, when she was born. We have no chillun but she is -still lookin' for a blessin'." (Here the nonagenarian broke forth in a -quiet chuckle). - -"There wasn't as much sin in slavery time, not as much sufferin', not as -much sickness and eye-sore poverty. Dere was no peniten'try and chain -gangs 'cause dere was no need for them. Cuttin' out de brutishness on -some places, it was a good thing for de race." - - - - -Milton Marshall - - - *Interview with Milton Marshall, (82)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live in Newberry County, a few miles from town on Mr. Alan -Johnstone's place. I rent and make a fair living. I have ten children -now living and two dead. Dey is all on a farm. I was born in Union -County, jes' across de Newberry line, near de Goshen Hill section. I was -young when we moved to Newberry and I have lived dar nearly all my life. -My father, Ned Worthy, was a slave of Frank Bynum's mother. My mother -was Maria Worthy who was a slave of Mr. Burton Maybin. She cooked for a -long time for de Maybin family. - -"I was small in slavery time, and played wid de white chaps. We used to -go wid Mr. Burt Maybin to see dem muster at de old Goshen Hill muster -ground. - -"Marse Burt Maybin owned 88 slaves, and I was one, and is de only one -now living. We had no money in slavery time, jes' got food and clothes -for our work; but my marster was a good feeder, always had enough to -eat. Some of de marsters didn't give niggers much to eat, and dey had to -slip off and steal. We had plenty of what was de rule for eating in dem -days. We had home-made molasses, peas, cornbread and home raised meat -sometimes. We killed rabbits and 'possums to eat, and sometimes went -fishing and hunting. Marse wouldn't allow fishing and hunting on -Sundays, but de chaps would slip off on Sundays sometimes and catch lots -of fish. - -"Our clothes was made at home, spun and wove by de women folks and made -by dem. Copper straw and white cloth was used. Our shoes was made by a -shoe-maker in de neighborhood who was named Liles. Dey was made wid -wooden soles or bottoms. Dey tanned de leather or had it tanned in de -neighborhood. It was tacked around de soles. It was raw-hide leather, -and de shoes had to be soaked in warm water and greased wid tallow or -meat skin so de shoes would slip on de feet. - -"I married Missouri Rice at her own house. We had a big wedding and she -wore a white dress wid two frills on it. I wore a dove-colored suit and -a high brim hat wid a small crown. I bought de hat for $7.00 jes' to -marry in, but used it for Sundays. - -"We had good white neighbors in slavery time. My marster and mistress -was all right. All of us had to go to work at daylight and work till -dark. Dey whipped us a little and dey was strict about some things. - -"Us chaps did not learn to read and write, dat is why I can't read and -write today. Marse wouldn't allow us to learn. Once he saw me and some -other chaps, white chaps, under a tree playing wid letter blocks. Dey -had de ABC's on dem. Marse got awful mad and got off his horse and -whipped me good. - -"De niggers didn't have a church on de plantation but was made to go to -de white folks church and set in back of de church. Dey had to git a -pass to go to church same as any other place, or de patrollers would -catch 'em and beat 'em. - -"Atter de war was over de niggers built brush arbors for to hold -meetings in. I sho' remember de old brush arbor and de glorious times -den, and how de niggers used to sing and pray and shout. I am a Baptist -and we baptised in de creek atter we dammed it up to hold water deep -enough. Sometimes we used a waterhole in de woods. I remember one old -Baptist song, it went: - - Down to de water I be baptised, for my Savior die; - Down to de water, de River of Jordan, - Where my Savior baptised. - -"Some of de slaves was whipped while dey was tied to a stock. My marster -was all right, but awful strict about two things, stealing and telling a -lie. He sho' whipped dem if dey was caught in dem things. Some marsters -didn't feed de slaves much, but my marster always had enough. Every -Sunday he would give each nigger a quart of flour extra for breakfast. - -"We had to work all day Saturdays, but Marse wouldn't let anybody work -on Sunday. Sometimes he would give de women part of Saturday afternoons -so dey could wash. He wouldn't allow fishing and hunting on Sundays -either, unless it looked like rain and de fodder in de field had to be -brought in. He always give us Christmas Day off, and we had lots of good -eats den. - -"I remember de old corn-shuckings, cotton-pickings and log-rollings. He -would ask all de neighbors' hands in and dey would come by crowds. I can -remember dem good. I remember de grain was put in drains and de horses -was made to tramp on it to git de seed out. Den it was put in a house -and poured in a big wooden fan machine which fanned out de chaff. De -machine was turned by two men. Dey made molasses by taking de cane and -squeezing out de juice in a big wooden machine. De machines now is -different. Dey is made of cast. - -"A stage dat was drawn by two horses went past our place. It carried -mail and people. When Marse wanted to send word to any people in de -neighborhood he sent it by somebody on a horse. - -"Many of de slaves, and some old white people, too, thought dar was -witches in dem days. Dey believed a witch could ride you and stop blood -circulation. - -"Dar was many dogs on de farms, mostly hounds and bird dogs. - -"My grandfather was called 'Jack', and he was a nigger-driver. Dat was a -nigger dat had to oversee de slaves when de marster was away from home. -He would call de cows like dis, 'Su--wee, Su-wee' or 'Sook, Sook'. He -called his dogs by whistling. He had several dogs. When grandpa died and -was buried, his dogs would git out and bark and trail jes' like trailing -a rabbit, and de trail always led to de graveyard. Dar dey would stand -by his grave and howl for a long time, wid deir heads up in de air. - -"De old folks made medicines from root herbs and tree barks. Herb tea -was made to keep away fevers. Marse always called his big chaps up to de -house in de mornings and made dem drink chinaberry tea to keep worms -from gitting in dem. - -"When freedom come, de slaves was notified dat a white man by de name -Ban White would come to de plantation and make a speech to dem. He said, -'Now dat you is free, you will be wid your marster, and he is willing to -give you 1/3 of what you make. You is free, and dar will be no more -whippings.' Den Marse said, while he was crying, 'You stay on wid me and -I'll give you food and clothes and 1/3 of what you make. - -"Atter de war, de Ku Klux did bad in our neighborhood. Dey killed five -or six niggers. I guess it was 'cause dey was Republicans and had -trouble at voting times. - -"I never did think slavery was right. I was jes' a chap den and never -thought much about it till long since it was over. De carpetbaggers dat -come to our place tried to make me believe dat de white man was our -enemy, but I found out better. I am a Democrat and always was one. I was -40 years old when I repented of my sins and jined de church. I wanted to -jine and be baptized and be saved." - - - - -Charlie Meadow - - - *Interview with Charlie Meadow (83)* - *Rt. 2, Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"It bees so hot today dat I jes' setting here on de bank steps a-waiting -fer Aaron to come. Aaron work out on de road yonder in front of Dr. -S'ratt's house. De heat, it still come up out'n dis granite rock like -dar was a fire under it somewhars. It feel good to me kaise my blood -thin and I has on de thinnest clothes dat I's got, today. Sho' did git -dis hot in slavery, but us never had to tramp 'round on no pavement and -rock steps like dese. Us tromped on de ground and it take up a lot of -heat. - -"In dem days, Union had trees along dis Main street like dem dat grows -on de forest now, (Forest Creek). Mister, dey never called dis street -Main when I was little, dey called it Virgin. It was real narrow and de -trees recht plumb over de street in de middle 'till de limbs touched -over your head. Here whar we's setting was de opera house. Right dar -whar I's a pinting my finger was a stone hitching post, and along dis -side de street was whar de surreys driv up fer de folks to git out and -go in de do' to de Opera. - -"I don't want to see no picture shows; ain't never seed none of dem -things afo' dey got to talking. It's de devil hisself and dat's all it -is. Now dey says dat dey talks in de pictures. Well, dem dat wants to -can go and pay dere hard earned money to see sech as dat, but Charlie -ain't gwine narry a step. No, if you is got any money to give me, I take -it; but I ain't gwine to no picture whar de devil hisself bees in de -dark. Dat's how come dey has it dark, and dat's what I 'lows to my -grandchilluns but dey is ig'nant and laughs at me. It ain't no good to -all sech as dat anyway. I likes to go to picnics and barbecues fer my -enjoyment. Befo' my legs give out, I cotch fish and killed birds and -went to log rollings and corn-shuckings. Dem things give you something -to recall. Dese chilluns comes from de picture show and den dey does not -have nothing to recall, kaise dey has to go agin de very next Sad'day. -Tain't no merits to no sech as dey does. - -"Slavery, us wore thin home-made clothes and dey sho' was better dan -what I has now, kaise us made dem on de home looms and spinning wheel, -and dey was good. Cloth ain't no count, kaise it ain't made good in no -mills like dat what us made at home in de time of slavery. 'Course I was -too little to make dem, myself, but it was done at home 'till atter I -got big enough to card and spin. Ain't never seed no garments as strong -as dem we wore back dar. Every thing was made out of plaited cotton and -it lasted fer years and years. Winter time, we wore all wool clothes, -and when you furs' changed in de fall, how dey did scratch! Make a -feller feel like he had de itch. Marster had enough sheep to give his -folks wool, and den some fer all de darkies. I's 'bout ten years old -when I could card and spin good, and dat was atter de war. - -"I live down dar on de Forest (creek) in 'Patterac'. My house ain't fer -from McBeth School. De mail box in Mr. Charlie Ray's yard, 'bout fo' -miles from Patterac. I walks fer dat mail, dat ain't fer. Not long ago I -walked to Union and dat twelve miles. At dat you see I doesn't consider -fo' miles fer. - -"And Marse Johnny Meadow was my Marse when I was five years old. From -den on, I 'members fer myself and I does not have to take what old folks -say, but as you knows, from dar back it is as I is heard it. - -"Yankee Carpetbagger or something come 'round and 'lowed to our -overseers dat us have to come to Union Courthouse on a certain day. Us -went in all de wagons. From de winding stairs, a man say, 'you is free; -you is free; you is free as your marsters is.' Grandma Julie grab me and -say, 'Boy, you is free; you is free; clap your hands.' Dat never meant -much to me and atter us got in de wagon to go home, grandma 'low dat she -sorry she so free and footloose. Next day us went to work as usual. Some -strange folks and trashy niggers and po' white folks dat ain't never had -nothing, would come to see us and tell us to stop work, but dat never -meant nothing to us. Us all stayed on and gathered de crops. - -"Next year maw and her maw went to de Mabry Thomas plantation in Santuc -to work fer a fourth. My pa stayed at de Meadow plantation. I went wid -my maw, but I also stayed wid my pa and his ma some. Atter dat, when -ma's maw died she went back to pa and dey worked fer a fourth; and de -older boys hired to de big house fer wages. I come up to manhood and I -been down dar on de Patterac ever since. I live near Charlie Giles, and -dey done tuck his picture kaise he so old and wise. - -"Paw name in full, Griffin George Meadow, and ma's is Alice Brice -Meadow. She brought from de state of Delaware, and pa was brought from -de state of Virginny. I's heard both say dat dere parents was brung all -de way from Africa. Mr. Bonny Trippling fetched both my ma and pa to -South Carolina atter dey was married. I 'member my grand-daddy, my ma's -daddy. He was furs' George Brice; then Marse Meadow bought him and he -was George Meadow. - -"My grandpa went to Mississippi on his own expenses atter de Confederate -War and took his wife wid him. Her name was Mahala; and her two girls, -Sara and Jane, and two sons, Henry and George, went along. Dey went on a -little train. It was new here den, and dey say dat it was de first train -dat ever went through de state of Mississippi. De first train dat I ever -saw, was de one on de Southern Railroad, from Spartanburg to Union. It -run to Columbia den, and my first ride was from Santuc to Union. I set -betwist my daddy's legs on de train and dat de best ride dat I ever had -and I'll never forget it. It was de fastes' thing dat had ever gone -through dis country. When it started off, I hollored as I was so scared. -Atter it got its speed, I thought de woods was leaving me and I held -tight to my daddy's knees, couldn't hardly get my breath. It didn't take -any time to get to Union, fact, befo' I got used to it we was at de -station and my daddy told me dat we had to get off. When we got off I -could get my breath again, but I felt funny all de rest of de day. - -"I has a brother, Luke, dat lives near Lockhart, S.C., and another -brother, Jimmie, lives in New York. Dat is all dat I has living. - -"All de darkies on de plantation lived a good life. De ladies had me to -pick up trash for de stove and fireplaces in de winter time. Marse Bee -was Miss Lizzie and Marse John's son. All de time I stayed 'round de -kitchen and got water and eat from de kitchen and had a good time until -Marse and Missus died. Dey give me plenty of food, clothes, a good house -and good clean bed. We made our bed clothes on de home looms wid wool -from our marster's sheep. De barns was always full and so was de -smokehouse. - -"For our summer clothes we plaited de hanks to make a mixtry of colors. -De winter clothes was heavy, drab and plain. Our dyes was made from bark -skinned from de maple trees. Dis was mixed with copperas for a pretty -yellow. Green dye was bought from a store in Union, and de filling for -de garments was also store-bought. I carded and spun and wove a many a -day. - -"We slept on straw ticks in summer, made from de wheat, and on feather -beds in winter. De quilts was warm and made from many pretty home-made -patterns. Lightwood knots give de only light at night. 'Puff' from flint -rock give de first sparks. A piece of old iron or hard rock was used to -strike de sparks wid, don't know why it was called 'puff'. Fire was kept -in de kitchen hearth all de year as a usual thing. - -"De overseer would 'hoop us up every morning, but we didn't work late at -night. We went to de white folks' church at Harden's Ferry near de old -Jeter graveyard. Church and ferry gone now. We also went to Sunday -school. Every two or three afternoons in summer, Marster and Missus call -us all on de kitchen porch and read de Bible and pray and tell us 'bout -our Sunday school lesson. In winter we went in de kitchen where I built -a big fire, to hear de Bible read. We was Methodist. My favorite -preacher was a big black African named Williams who come to preach in de -darky church for us every now and den. Dat was Jeter Chapel. - -"First time dat I went to a baptizing was to see it at de white folks' -church, Kelly Chapel. I went wid my ma and pa to see Mr. Cain and some -Jones baptized. A box-pool had been built in de branch about half a mile -from de church. De people draped in white was taken to dis pool and -dipped, although it was a Methodist church. Sheets was hung up for a -dressing-room. When dey come out of de pool dey dressed in regular -clothes. It was warm weather and lots of folks had to be baptized and a -lot of people was dere to see it done. - -"Some years later, I went to see some darkies baptized for the first -time. I had to walk a long ways. I don't go to church much now because -my legs don't 'low me to walk to church." - - - - -Albert Means - - - *Interview with Albert Means (91)* - *Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -_OLD CUSTOMS_ - -"Sho' wuz' born in '46, das' whut my white folks says. I calls myself -97, but dat' don't make no'diffunt, 'bout a few years. I lives near -Monarch, on whut's still called the Ben Brandon place. Mr. Ben had a -sister, Mis' Polly. Deys' de aunt and uncle to Mis' Emma Brandon. Mr. -Ben had two overseers, Mr. Caleb and Mr. Neal Willard, deys' both -Willards. Yes suh' dey' sho' wuz'. Bofe wuz very kind mens. - -"Marse' Ben nebber' 'low' much whippin', and he wuz as good a man as -anybody has ever seed'. But one day us nigger' boys hopped into a fight. -Marse' Ben done his own whippin' den'. And dats' de onliest' time dat' I -is ever knowed' of anybody on all dem' plantations to be whipped. - -"Marse Ben had a small house. Didn't nobody live dar' but him and his -sister. Den' she up and went to Kennedy's on de Meansville road. Dat' -place wuz' called in Dem' days 'Cedar Grove'. T'ain't much dar' now. - -"I'se named Albert, 'case my pa belong to Marse Albert Means. I wuz -always a field-hand. Marse Ben let me eat from his table after his -sister went to 'Cedar Grove', kaze' wad'n nobody dar' in the house wid' -him. 'Cindy' Brandon wuz de woman dat' cooked for us. My mother always -belonged to de' Brandons, and my pa never 'longed to nobody but Marse -Albert Means. My Marster' had only one body slave whose name was Keith. -He was born, lived and died and was buried on the plantation. Marse Ben -also had a cousin whose name was Marse Keith. When he died he gave all -his slaves to Marse' Ben, and this is how Keith became my Masters' body -slave. All Marse Ben had he left to his young neice Miss Emma Brandon, -and to his cousins Miss Hettie, and Miss Mary Emma Foster. - -"On Sunday we get the best things to eat of any day in the week. -Sometimes we were allowed to go to church with our white folks at old -Brown's Creek. We sit in the gallery. Dey' don't have none at all now. -'Cindy' go to church too. When 'Cindy' go to church us never had much to -eat. All de' slaves is buried in de' Brandon's Graveyard and dere's a -place fer me beside my first wife. Oh! Lord yes I got my second wife and -she's a young gal', but she doos' whut I wants her to. My furs' wife -belonged to Marse Jim Ellis. De' preacher on the Ellis plantation -married me to Jane Ellis. Dem' wuz good times, 'caze' Marse had us -plenty to eat, good clothes to wear, and he gave us a new log house to -live in. - -"Captain Foster got de' two Brandon places. He owned the Will Beaty -Place and 'Cedar Grove'. He never owned slaves. - -"Me and Jane cooked in our fireplace. It had a big crane fer' de' pot to -hang on. We had a covered skillet to bake in, and a frying skillet. Us -never cooked on Sunday, but made pones on Saturday. We made our Yeast of -meal and hop-vine." - - - - -Andrew Means - - - *Interview with Uncle Andrew Means, age 80* - *Route #4; Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Andrew Means, when approached, held a baby in his arms and moved very -slowly around in his front yard. He was asked if the babe was his -grandchild or his great-grandchild, as the old darky had previously -stated his age as eighty. He replied that it was his own and he pointed -out another child playing in the yard whom he said was his also. He -stated, "I'se been married twice. I had fifteen children by my first -wife, and these two are by my second wife. She is a young woman. But -I'se sick now, 'cause I had two strokes of paralysis and I can't do -much". - -He remembered some things during slavery times. His mother belonged to -Dock Murph's father. "I don't recollect his name", he said: "but I was -born on a plantation down about White Stone on Mr. Murph's place". He -stated his mother lived in a two-room log house with board floors. "My -mother and my father separated, and he got killed in Florida. One day my -father came there to take me with him, but I wouldn't go. I stayed with -my mammy. She was a hoshand, and used to do washing around the house; -she did some cooking, too. She used to pick cotton. We raised plenty of -cotton; made good crops." - -He said "I wonder what has become of the wild duck and the wild geese we -used to have? I used to see them coming over de house, stretched out one -right behind the other. There was plenty of duck and geese, but you -don't see 'em now." - -When questioned further about slavery times, he said, "I was so little, -too little to work. I was playing marbles and pitching horse shoes. One -day I looked up and I seed soldiers running their horses down the road -in my direction and I got scared. They had on blue hats, or caps, but I -don't recollect what kind of clothes they had on, but I remember the -blue caps with a stiff front to it. No, Sir, they didn't do nothing at -the house. Some of dem asked for something to eat, but when we didn't -have anything to eat they couldn't get it, so rode on. I was so scared -and my heart was beating so when I seed 'em coming I just lit out on a -run." (At this point he laughed heartily to himself.) "I ran so hard and -was so scared I run over and knocked down two railings on de fence, den -I crawled under de bed." - -When asked how the darkies got married in those days, he said: "They had -to do the best they could. People didn't get married at that time like -they do now." - -He said he had heard of some of the slaves getting whippings, but he had -a good master; he never saw a nigger get a whipping. "But I heard of it -on some places". - -He never went to white folks' church when he got big enough to go to -church, but the first church he went to was a colored church. - -"No, Sir, I never seed a ghost, but one night when me and another fellow -was going 'possum hunting, I saw something, but I don't know what it -was. De dogs treed a 'possum and laid down at de foot of the tree and -just barked. Torectly something flew down out of the top of de tree and -fought de dogs. It just tore them into shoe-strings--their ears and -sides was all torn to shoe-strings. Some of de dogs didn't get back 'til -next morning and they was all cut up. When dat thing came out de tree I -left there. We didn't stay. It looked bigger than a bear. Maybe it was a -ghost. - -"The 'paterollers' didn't give us much trouble as long as we had a -pass." - -He stated he had never heard of Abe Lincoln or Jeff Davis but he -recollected when Garfield was President. - -When he was passed a little change, he said, "Thank you, Sir; come -again, come to see me again." - - - - -Jason Miller - - - *Interview with Jason Miller* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -_STORY OF HIS GRANDMOTHER'S PRAYER_ - -Jason Miller, a dark-colored Negro 77 years old, lives on a farm five -and a half miles from Eastover, S.C., and claims that he is a grandson -of Nancy Williams, whose prayer saved a ship at sea. - -"My daddy was Thomas Miller and my mammy was Bernice Williams Miller, de -youngest daughter of Nancy Williams. I was born in Orangeburg County in -1860, on de farm where we lived at dat time. My mammy die when I was -'bout turnin' into 16 years old and my daddy never marry no more. - -"He owns 'bout 15 acres and de house we lives in and he rent more land -close to us. We 'most always has plenty to eat and wear, 'cause we works -de land and keeps it fit to produce food and money crops. When my daddy -got too old to work much, me and my wife and our two chillun was livin' -wid him. - -"He never turn over de home nor de lands to me while he was livin' and I -follow right in his tracks. I owns a house and 31 acres and my son and -his wife and two chillun live wid me. My wife die nigh on to 15 years -ago, but I is still single and right glad of it. I now owns de farm and -is still boss dere. I has a reason for not turnin' them over while I -lives. - -"I has seen many cases, where de head of de house turn over all his -belongin's to de son who move in. In most of dese cases, de head of de -house become no more pow'ful than a child and often when he give it all -out, he get sent to de poorhouse, to boot. - -"So I still holds de whuphand for keepin' de peace and countin' one, -besides. Tom does most of de sowin', plowin', and reapin'. I still makes -a hand, choppin' or pickin' cotton and I digs de 'taters, too. And when -it come to sellin', why I cracks de whup, 'stead of bein' on de beggin' -side at home. - -"Yes, sah, my daddy was a slave and I was born a slave. My grandmammy, -Nancy Williams, was set plum free by her Marster Williams at Charleston, -when she was just a little gal, lak. She still stay wid dis fine -seagoin' family, and dat's why she was a stewardess on de ship, where -Marster Williams was de captain. - -"De ship was makin' de return trip from Wilmington, N.C. to Charleston, -S.C. in 1847, when de big storm break on de sea. De biggest story 'bout -what happen am told by Senator A.P. Butler, who was a passenger. My wife -tell me, too. She say Senator Butler always look up and speak to my -grandmammy when he come to Charleston and she say de Senator give -grandmammy money, widout her askin' for it. - -"My grandmammy sho' was known to white and black folks at Charleston and -Wilmington as a Christian woman. She talk and pray for de seamen at both -ports and when she livin' in Charleston, too old to serve de ship -longer, de sailors often come to see her and fetch her presents of -candy, coffee, flour, sugar, blankets and such as they thought she need. -When she die, my wife say de sailors carry de coffin to de grave and -weep. - -"As de storm tale come to me from my wife, who git it from her mammy, -Nancy Williams, it 'bout lak dis: De ship carry folks and produce from -Charleston to Wilmington and git a load of folks and produce at -Wilmington, for Charleston. 'Bout 100 miles south of Wilmington a big -storm rage, lightin' flash and de waves roll mountain high. De ship -wobble, first on one end and then on de other, a squeakin' awful. Pretty -soon de fires wetted out and it was out of man control. But it still -pitchin' pow'ful. - -"Knowin' all dis, Marster Williams summon all on deck and tell them de -ship am doomed. Then he say to them: 'All you standin' side by each, git -'quainted, so if anybody git to land, they can tell what become of us!' - -"It was then dat my grandmammy, de stewardess, step fo'ward and say: -'Marster Williams, dis am no time to git 'quainted! What we all better -do is to kneel down and pray.' - -"'I can't pray,' say Marster Williams. 'If you can pray, Stewardess, go -ahead!' - -"All de passengers and crew was standin' dere silent and tremblin'. -Grandmammy fall on her knees and pray: 'Oh, God! We, thy erring chillun -can do nothin'. You can do ever'thing. Save us, if it be Thy will but -Thy will be done, not ours! Amen!' - -"Then she rise up and smile sweet lak and 'bout dat time de light from a -rescue ship, sent out from Wilmington to aid us, grandmammy say, shine -in on us. All was saved. Many, white and black, sho' say grandmammy's -prayer saved de ship and also say she am de only one who keep cool all -de time. Senator Butler, who was a passenger, talk wid me once 'bout it. -Long after he talk wid me, we git a book from Edgefield, in which -Senator Butler tell de story, praising my grandmammy. We has that book -at home now and no money could buy it." - - - - -Lucinda Miller - - - *Interview with "Aunt" Lucinda Miller* - *637 Cummings St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Calling on an ex-slave who was visiting at a neighbor' house, the writer -was surprised. She came out of the house briskly and jumped down the -front steps and came to greet the writer with a smile on her face. -"Aunt" Lucinda Miller stated she was between 10 and 11 years of age -"when she was sot free". That would make her about 82 years old now. She -was born in slavery, her mother being bought by Mat Alexander, who lived -about five miles from Hill's factory on the Main Tyger River, for $900. -Her father, who was a Linder, was owned by Bob Alexander, a brother of -Mat. He lived two or three plantations away. She stated that Bob -Alexander was known as a good master, but Mat was mean and cruel. She -has seen her mother "whooped" by the latter either with a buggy or wagon -trace, a piece of leather or anything her master could get his hands -upon. She said that she had never seen any slaves in chains, but her -master would whip the grown slaves, but never the small children. Her -work was light farm work, and working around the house. She would bring -water, wash the dishes, help make up the beds and such other work she -could required in the house. She says her master was a hard driver for -work to his slaves; that she knew nothing but work. When her master -thought that a slave was not working hard enough, he would whip him to -make him work much harder. All he thought of was work--work in cotton, -corn, peas, wheat, oats or whatever he raised. When asked about the -games she and the other children played, she replied that she didn't -have a chance to play, for there was something for her to do all the -time. She also said that Mat Alexander used to make his slaves work at -night and on Sundays. When the day's work was over, he would come to -their one-room log house and lock them up until next morning. He would -also lock up the well so they could have no drinking water during the -night. She had plenty to eat, such as it was, but flour was given to -them once a week, also a little meat, some molasses and corn meal. They -never had any sugar, and only got coffee when her father would bring it -to her mother. The white folks and the negroes ate from the same garden. -The slaves could not have a garden of their own. They also went to the -same church, but none of the white folks taught the slaves anything -about reading. She said that she saw "a pair of niggers" get married on -the plantation by a white preacher. There were no negro preachers. -Patrollers did not bother any of the four or five slave families on the -Alexander place, for Mat Alexander was his own patroller. Patrollers -from one plantation had nothing to do with the negroes from another -plantation, as they could not even come on the other plantation unless -they had permission. When going to church, the slaves had to have passes -to attend church services. - -When asked how the Yankee soldiers behaved when they came by the farm, -she said, "a whole pastle of them came by the house one day. They asked -the Missus if she had any white bread and some honey." Upon being told -that she didn't have any of either, they asked for water. Aunt Lucinda -was told to bring them a bucket. She drew the water from the well and, -after filling it, she placed it on her head to carry it. The captain of -the soldiers told her he could not drink the water from the bucket on -her head, so made her place it on a stand. Then after the captain drank, -the rest did also. They then came on into the yard and went to the -stable, took a mule and rode it off, without saying anything. The missus -had heard what the soldiers would do when they came to a farm, so all -the valuables had been hidden. The horses were driven way back into the -woods, the food stuff and clothing was hidden about the place. She said -her mother was a good weaver and used to make lots of good clothes and -quilts, but all this was put into a hole and covered up with dirt to -keep the soldiers from taking it. Aunt Lucinda said the soldiers did not -tarry there long after looking about for horses and such, and soon left. -The only thing they got was the mule that was in the stable. When all -the slaves were told by their master that they were free, they all -wanted to get away from him, but stayed until the planted crops were -harvested; then went to another place. Her father took her mother and -his five children to live with him on another farm where they stayed for -fourteen years. When they left, the Missus gave them 10 bushels of corn, -3 gallons of molasses etc. That was all her mother received for staying -on after emancipation. Aunt Lucinda stated that she was known as Lucinda -Alexander while a slave; then took her father's name until she was -married, when she became a Miller. Her father used to hunt rabbits and -opossums and bring them to his wife, her mother. She said that wild -turkeys were plentiful, as she had often seen them flying around in the -woods at the lower edge of the farm. She didn't know how many acres were -in the farm, but the master worked 6 horses. She remembers that Mat -Alexander was very mean, and would not get a doctor to a sick slave -until he dropped in the fields. They had to work even if they were sick. - - - - -Cureton Milling - - - *Interview with Cureton Milling, 80 years old* - *Winnsboro, S.C.* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -"I live about ten miles from dis town on de Jim Turner place; though he -dead they still calls it de Jim Turner place. My pappy name Jeff, mammy -name Dolly. Dat a lovely name in dis old mind yit, please God. -Gran'mammy Peggy another good name I's got to recommen' to you, boss. - -"Yes, us all b'longs to de same marster, Levi Bolicks. Guess you'd heard -tell of dat man. Mistress named Martha, angel of light tied up to de -prince of darkness, so it was. They had one child, Little Miss, who -growed up and married a Stevenson. - -"I was just a little shrimp durin' slavery time; tote water and ride -behin' in de buggy to hold marster's hoss when he gits out. My mammy -live in a one-room house; it had no flo' but de one de Lord create in de -beginnin', de natural born earth, it was. - -"What they give us to eat? Us got plenty, sich as it was. Marster Levi -kept his niggers fat, just like he keep his hogs and hosses fat, he did. -He had a passel of slaves and as his plantation was small he just run -four plows, kept a ridin' hoss and a single buggy, and raise slaves to -sell. - -"He was sellin' de oldest ones away from de younger ones, all time goin' -along, 'pears to me. Sometime I think he was de very old Nick turned -loose in de earth for a season. - -"How I explainin' dat? It's dis way: He take 'vantage of de young gal -slaves. 'You go yonder and shell corn in de crib,' he say to one of -them. He's de marster so she have to go. Then he send de others to work -some other place, then he go to de crib. He did dis to my very aunt and -she had a mulatto boy dat took his name and live right in dis town after -freedom. Marster was doin' dis devilment all de time and gwine to -Presbyterian Church at Salem every Sunday; dat make it look worse to me. - -"Outside dis, and sellin' and partin' mothers and chillun, him was a -pretty good slave marster. He marry Miss Martha Clark and had nice -pretty home. He give us good clothes. Shoes? De shoes was made on de -place; they had wooden bottoms, no spring to them. He gave us one day -durin' Christmas, for a dance. Us had Doctor Martin to 'tend us. He was -son-in-law to old Captain Stitt, another bad man that give trouble just -like my marster. - -"What about de Yankees? Two come first, and rode up to de kitchen, rode -right up to de steps and say: 'Where de silver? Where de gold rings and -jewelry you got hid for de white folks? Tell us or us'll beat you worse -than you ever get beat from de lash of de patrollers.' They was as good -as they words; they gets down and grab us and make us tell all us know. - -"Where old marster? He done burnt de wind in his buggy wid de very -things de Yankees asked for and refugeed somewhere away, sah. Did he go -to war, my old marster? No sirree! He wasn't dat kind; him hire a -substitute. - -"After de war was over, freedom come, and with it de excitement of white -folks comin' down here and havin' us believe us just as good as white -folks. I have lived to see it was all a mistake. Then come de Ku Klux -and scared some sense into my color. Then come Hampton and de Red -Shirts. Had they a black shirt I don't believe niggers would ever have -took to it. 'Dog for bread, nigger for red', they likes dat color. - -"In them days of parades by day and torch light processions by night, -when de niggers was asked to jine, offered a hoss to ride, knowed dere -would be a drink of red-eye on de way, and then was handed one of them -red shirts. What you 'spect dat nigger to do? I knowed. He's gwine to -put on dat red shirt, dat red-eye gwine give him over to de democrats, -and dis was de way dat Hampton was 'lected. But it never would have done -to have a black shirt, no sir; I's sure of dat. Dat would have had no -'peal to our color. They is too black already to suit de most of them. - -"When Hampton was 'lected I git an idea of settlin' down. I picks de -plumpest woman I could find and her had a name dat seem music then to -me. It was Roxanna. She allow I was a handsome man, and I was fool -enough then to believe her. But one day she brung home a ten-cent -lookin' glass from Winnsboro. I say to her when I takes a look in it, -'Who dis I see in here?' She says 'Dat's you, honey.' I say: 'No, Roxie, -it can't be me. Looks like one of them apes or monkeys I see in John -Robinson's circus parade last November.' Dere's been a disapp'intment -'bout my looks ever since, and when my wife die I never marry again. - -"All our boys are dead 'cept Laurens. He live in Charlotte, and I got a -sister dat marry Ike Austin and live on de Aiken place. I piddles along -wid de white folks and live in a little house by myself, waitin' for God -to call me home." - - - - -Abbey Mishow - - - *Interview with Abbey Mishow* - *9 Rose Lane, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Jessie A. Butler, Charleston, S.C._ - -Among the few ex-slaves still living, irrespective of their age at the -close of the War Between the States, the line is still very closely -drawn between house servants and their children, and the field hands. -Old white-haired Abbey Mishow has "misplaced de paper" telling her age -but though she claims to have been very small when the war broke out she -still maintains the dignity of a descendant of a house servant, nor will -she permit her listeners to forget this fact for an instant. - -When the writer called on her, unexpectedly, for an interview, she found -Abbey, her house, and grandchildren very clean and neat. There was none -of the musty, stale odor about the place common to Negro dwellings. - -"I don't remember much 'bout de plantation," said Abbey, "'cept dat dey -called it Waterford, and dey planted rice. You see I been jest uh leetle -gal; I can't lie and say I remember. I been jest 'bout so high." She -indicated about the size of a five or six year old child. "I ain't had -no reason for study 'bout um and 'press it on my mind. My mudder died -w'en I was almost uh baby; she was de tailor and seamstress for our -people. De missus promise my ma to tek care of me, and she sho' did. I -was raise just like a pet. De fust crack out of me dat window sash gwine -to heist to find out what ail me. I hardly miss my ma, no mudder -couldn't treat me better dan I treat. - -"We been b'long to Miss (Mrs.) Reese Ford, what live at Waterford -plantation, on the Black River," (Georgetown County) Abbey stated. As -she mentioned the name of the old "missus," and enumerated the names of -her erstwhile owners, Miss Sarah, Miss Clara, Miss Henney, Mr. Willie -and Mr. Reesey, Abbey's old, wrinkled, black face softened with memories -and her voice became gentle as she told of the care and kindness she had -received. - -"I don't know nothing 'bout de war", she continued. "I was purtected, -and tek to de city. I didn't hab nothing to bodder my mind and mek me -remember dose days. Mr. Willie lose he arm in de war. I is see de -soldiers but I been tek care of. I been spoiled and didn't hab no -interest in worryment. - -"I don't know nothing about de street on de plantation, and what dey do -dere, 'cause I ain't had no 'casion for go dere. I raise in de yard, I -didn't wear de kind ob clothes de field-hand chillen wear, and I get my -dinner from de kitchen. I don't know nothing 'bout crops 'cause we -summered." (The family spent the summers at Plantersville, a resort -frequented by the planters of the day) "You see I been leetle, dey -didn't 'low me out de yard, I jest tek notes 'round sometimes. I tell -you I bin spoiled, I raise onderneat' Miss Clara dem (and them). I -nebber had no idea t'ings would ebber be like dis. I ain't got no man, -and no boy, nor no kinnery to help me, nor to do nothing for me, only -one weak daughter and she ain't much good. All de nation dead, t'ain't -nobody left but me. - -"Is I ebber see a ghost? No ma'am, I is hear 'bout dem but I nebber see -um. I ain't had 'casion to go out in de night time. I hear Plat-Eye dere -but only dem what has to trabble round see um. I believe in my Jesus, -yes ma'am, if it ain't been for Him how I lib?" - - - - -Sam Mitchell - - - *Interview with Sam Mitchell, age 87* - --_Mrs. Chlotilde R. Martin, Beaufort County_ - -"W'en war come, I been minding cow for my master. My father been Moses -Mitchell and my mother been Tyra Mitchell. We belong to John Chaplin and -lib on Woodlawn plantation on Ladies Island. Mr. Chaplin had seven -plantation. He lib at Brickyaa'd plantation in winter and in Beaufort in -summer. He hab many slave, but I don't know how many. As near as I can -remember, dey been fifteen slave on Woodlawn plantation. - -"De slave lib on de Street, each cabin had two room. De Master don't gib -you nutting for yo' house--you hab to git dat de best way you can. In -our house was bed, table and bench to sit on. My father mek dem. My -mother had fourteen chillen--us sleep on floor. - -"Eb'ry Chuesday, de Master gib each slave a peck ob corn. W'en potato -dug, we git potato. Two time in de year we git six yaa'd ob cloth, -calico in spring and homespun in de winter. Once a year we git shoe. De -slave had 'bout two task ob land to cultivate for se'f in w'at call -Nigger field. Could raise one pig. - -"All my mother chillen dead 'cept me and one sister Rhina, who lib wid -me. She 80 year old. - -"My father hab a boat and he gone fishing at night and sell fish. Master -let him cut post and wood at night and sell, too. He had to do dis work -at night 'cause in daytime he have to do his task. He was carpenter, but -w'en dey was no carpentry work to do on de plantation, he plow. My -mudder hoe. Little boy and old man mind cow. Little girl and old 'ooman -mind baby. - -"On Woodlawn dey was no overseer. We had nigger driver. Maussa didn't -'low mucher whipping, but slave had to do task. If didn't, den he git -whipping. Driver do whipping, but if he whip too sewerely, Maussa would -sometime tek field hand and mek him driver and put driver in field. - -"If a slave was sick, Maussa would come and see w'at was de matter. -Sometimes he would give de slave jollip to mek him womit (vomit), -sometimes if he had fever, he would gib him hippo. If he was sick, the -Master would tek him to Beaufort to de doctor. If a 'ooman slave sick, -Big Missis would go and see dem. - -"Slave had only one holiday in de year. Dat Christmas day. Maussa would -kill a cow on every plantation on Christmas and gib all de slave some. - -"On Maussa John Chaplin plantation slave have to tell him soon as dey -begin to co't. If Maussa say 'No, you can't marry dat gal', den dat -settle it, you can't marry um. He don't lak his slave to marry slave on -nodder puson plantation, but if you do den you hab pass to wisit yo' -wife. W'en slave marry, w'ite preacher marry um in de Maussa house, but -Maussa don't gib you anyt'ing. - -"Slave had dey own chu'ch on plantation wid nigger preacher, but on -'munion Sunday, you had to go to w'ite folks chu'ch in Beaufort and sit -up stair. - -"Dey wasn't no jailhouse on de plantation, but dey was a barn w'ere -sometimes Maussa put slave w'en dey been bad. I never saw any slaves -sold, but I hear tell of de banjo table. - -"W'en slave die, Maussa let me berry um in de daytime, 'do some Maussa -mek dem wait 'till night time. Nigger preacher preach funeral. - -"I staa't for mind cow w'en I been nine year old. W'en I been twelve, I -have for staa't wuk in field or cutting maash (marsh) or splitting rail. -Slave chillen play mud-pie, mek house out ob sand and secher t'ing. - -"Slave on Maussa plantation could come to Beaufort on Sattidy night, but -dey have to be back by 9 o'clock or patrol would get um. - -"Maussa had nine chillen, six boy been in Rebel army. Dat Wednesday in -November w'en gun fust shoot to Bay Pint (Point) I t'ought it been -t'under rolling, but dey ain't no cloud. My mother say, 'son, dat ain't -no t'under, dat Yankee come to gib you Freedom.' I been so glad, I jump -up and down and run. My father been splitting rail and Maussa come from -Beaufort in de carriage and tear by him yelling for de driver. He told -de driver to git his eight-oar boat name Tarrify and carry him to -Charleston. My father he run to his house and tell my mother w'at Maussa -say. My mother say, 'You ain't gonna row no boat to Charleston, you go -out dat back door and keep a-going. So my father he did so and w'en dey -git 'nuf nigger to row boat and Maussa and his family go right away to -Charleston. - -"After Freedom come everybody do as he please. De Yankee open school for -nigger and teacher lib in Maussa house to Brickyaa'd. My father git job -as carpenter wid Yankee and buy ten acre ob land on Ladies Island. - -"I been married two time. My last wife, Florence, living right here in -Beaufort, but she left me long time ago. I hab two chillen, one daughter -live to Philadelphy and de odder lib on Ladies Island. I got four -grand-chillen, all ob dem grown. - -"Did I ebber hear ob Abraham Lincoln? I got his history right here in my -house. He was de president of de United States that freed four million -slave. He come to Beaufort befo' de war and et dinner to Col. Paul -Hamilton house at de Oaks. He left his gold-headed walking cane dere and -ain't nobody know de president of de United States been to Beaufort -'till he write back and tell um to look behind de door and send um his -gold-headed walking cane. - -"Jefferson Davis? He been de Democrack president. - -"Booker T. Washington? He wasn't no president, but he was a great man. I -hear him speak once in de cemetery in Beaufort. - -"What do I t'ink ob slavery? I t'ink slavery is jest a murdering of de -people. I t'ink Freedom been a great gift. I lak my Maussa and I guess -he was as good to his slave as he could be, but I ruther (rather) be -free." - - - - -Charity Moore - - - *Interview with Charity Moore, 75 years* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -One quarter of a mile north of Woodward station and one hundred yards -east of US #21, is the beautiful residence of Mr. T.W. Brice. In the -back yard is a two-room frame house. In this house lives Charity Moore -and another aged Negro woman, said to be an octogenarian. They occupy -the house together and exist on the goodness and charity of Mr. Brice. -Charity was born a slave of Mr. Brice's father and has lived all her -days in his immediate family. - -"Don't you 'member my pa, Isaiah Moore? Course you does! He was de Uncle -Remus of all de white chillun 'round dese parts. He sho' was! I seen him -a settin' wid you, Marse Johnnie, Marse Boyce, and Dickie Brice, in de -back yard many a time. You all was askin' him questions 'bout de tale he -was a tellin' and him shakin' his sides a laughin'. He telled all them -tales 'bout de fox and de rabbit, de squirrel, brer tarrapin, and sich -lak, long befo' they come out in a book. He sho' did! - -"My ma name Nancy, dat was pa's wedded wife. Dere was no bigamous nor -concubine business goin' on wid us. My brothers was Dave, Solomon, -Fortune, Charlie, and Brice. My sisters was Haley, Fannie, Sarah, -Frances, Mary, and Margaret. Hold your writin' dere a minute. Dere was -thirteen. O yes, I left out Teeta. Dat rounds them up, a baker's dozen, -Marse Thomas use to 'low. - -"White folks, my pa had Bible tales he never told de white chillun. Did -you know dat my pa know de catechism from cover to cover, and from de -back end to de startin' end? Concord Church gived him a Bible for -answering every question in the catechism. Here 'tis. (Producing -catechism published and dated 1840). My pa maybe never telled you any -Bible tales he told de colored chillun. He 'low dat de fust man, Adam, -was a black man. Eve was ginger cake color, wid long black hair down to -her ankles. Dat Adam had just one worriment in de garden and dat was his -kinky hair. Eve hate to see him sad, 'cause her love her husband as all -wives ought to do, if they don't. - -"Well, Adam play wid Eve's hair; run his fingers through it and sigh. -Eve couldn't do dat wid his kinky hair. De debbil set up in de plum -bushes and took notice of de trouble goin' on. Every day Eve's hair -growed longer and longer. Adam git sadder and sadder. De debbil in de -plum bushes git gladder and gladder. Dere come a day dat Adam 'scused -hisself from promenadin' in 'mong de flower beds wid his arms 'round -Eve, a holding up her hair. De debbil took de shape of a serpent, glided -after Eve, and stole up and twisted hisself up into dat hair far enough -to whisper in one of them pretty ears: 'Somebody's got something for to -tell you, dat will make Adam glad and like hisself agin! Keep your ears -open all day long.' Then de serpent distangled hisself, drapped to de -ground, and skeedaddled to de red apple tree, close by de fountain. He -knowed dat Eve was gwine dere to bathe. He beat her dere, 'cause she was -walkin' sorta slow, grievin' 'bout Adam and thinkin' 'bout how to cheer -him up. When she got dere, de old debbil done changed from a snake to a -angel of light, a male angel, I reckon. He took off his silk beaver hat, -flourished his gold headed cane, and 'low: 'Good mornin'! Lovely day! -What a beautiful apple, just in your reach too, ahem'! Eve say: 'I's not -been introduced,' 'Well', said de debbil, 'My subjects call me Prince, -'cause I's de Prince of light. My given name is Lucifer. I's at your -service, dear lady.' Eve 'flected: 'A prince, he'll be a king some day.' -Then de debbil say: 'Of course, one of your beauty will one day be a -queen. I seen a sadness on your lovely face as you come 'long. What -might be your worry?' Eve told him and he 'low: 'Just git Adam to eat -one bite out dat apple 'bove your head and in a night his hair will grow -as long, be as black, and as straight as your'n.' She 'low: 'Us ain't -'lowed to eat of de fruit of de tree in de midst of de garden. Us dare -not tech it, lest us die.' Then Satan stepped a distance dis way, then -another way and come back and say: 'Gracious lady! Dis tree not in de -midst of de garden. De one in de midst is dat crabapple tree over -yonder. Of course de good Lord didn't want you to eat crabapples.' De -debbil done got her all mixed up. De apple looked so good, she reached -up, and quick as you can say 'Jack Robinson,' she bite de apple and run -to Adam wid de rest of it and say: 'Husband eat quick and your hair will -be as long, as black, and straight as mine, in de mornin'.' While he was -eatin' it, and takin' de last swallow of de apple, he was 'minded of de -disobedience and choked twice. Ever since then, a man have a 'Adam's -Apple' to 'mind him of de sin of disobedience. Twasn't long befo' de -Lord come alookin' for them. Adam got so scared his face turned white, -right then, and next mornin' he was a white man wid long hair but worse -off than when he was a nigger. Dere was more to dat tale but I -disremember it now. - -"I's livin' wid my young marster, Thomas, now. He took good care of my -pa, when he got so old and feeble he couldn't work no more. God'll bless -Marse Tommie for all his goodness. When Pa Isaiah come to die, Marse -Tommie come every day. One day in leavin', he said in his gruff, kind -way: 'Is dere anything I can do for you Uncle Isaiah?' Pa say: 'Take -care of Charity.' 'I will,' say Marse Tommie. Then he 'low: 'Ain't dere -something else?' 'Yes,' pa 'low, 'I want a white stone over de head of -my grave.' 'What must I put on de stone,' asked Marse Tommie? 'Just my -name and age,' said pa. 'Oh yes, dere ought to be something else,' says -Marse Tommie. Pa shook his head. 'I want something else on it Uncle -Isaiah,' said Marse Tommie. Wid a tear and a smile, pa raised his white -head and said: 'You can put down, below de name and age, just dis: 'As -good as ever fluttered.' And dat stone at Concord Cemetery 'tract more -'tention then any stone and epitaph in dat churchyard. Why, de white -folks puts flowers on it sometimes. - -"I wonder sometime in de winter nights, as de north wind blows 'bout de -cracks in de house, if pa is warm and in Abraham's bosom. But I knows -pa; he's 'umble. There's so many white folks in dat bosom he'll just be -content to lie in Isaac's bosom or maybe de prophet Isaiah's, for who he -was named. - -"Wait dere! You have bad luck to leave by dat door. You comed in by dis -door and you just leave by de same door. Some folks say nothin' to dat -but I don't want you to risk dat. Glad you come. Good bye." - - - - -Sena Moore - - - *Interview with Sena Moore, 83 years old* - --_W.W. Dixon, Winnsboro, S.C._ - -Sena Moore lives alone, in a one-room frame house about five miles -northeast of Winnsboro, S.C. She does seasonal work, such as hoeing and -picking cotton, of which she is still fully capable. She pays $2.00 per -month rent, for the house and vegetable garden spot. - -"Sumpin' tell me to make haste and come here for to see you. How's you -dis mornin'? Mustn't forgit my manners, though I's wantin' to tell you -de ifs and hows and de ups and downs of dese many years dat I's been in -dis land of sorrow and tribulation. - -"I was born in 1854, on de Gladney plantation. Was a pretty smart gal, -twelve years old, when de Yankees come through. Marse Riley have a Bible -out yonder at Jackson Creek dat show's I's eighty-three years old. His -aunty is a sister to my old marster, Jim Gladney. Miss Margaret married -a Paul but Miss Nancy and Miss Mary Ann, them two never marry, bless -God! De house out dere in Jackson Creek neighborhood. - -"My pappy was George Stitt. My mammy was Phillis Gladney. My pappy was a -slave of de Stitt family; had to git a pass to come to see mammy. He -slipped in and out 'nough of times to have four chillun. Then de Stitts -took a notion to sell him to Arkansas. My mammy weep 'bout dat but what -could her do? Just nothin'. Old marster 'low: 'Plenty more good fish in -de sea, Phillis. Look 'round, set your cap, and maybe you'll 'tract one -dat'll give your heart comfort, bye and bye'. My full brudders was -Luther Stitt, Bill Stitt, and Levi Stitt. My mammy then take up wid a no -'count nigger name Bill James and had one child, a boy, name Jim. He -died long time ago. - -"Us live in a log house wid a dirt floor and de cracks stop up wid mud. -It had a wooden chimney. De beds was saplin' pole beds. De ticks was -wheat straw, though most of de time us chillun sleep on de floor. My -marster not a big buckra; he just had a handful of slaves. Us had to -fight chinches, fleas, and skeeters (mosquitoes) 'most all night or 'til -they fill theyselves wid our blood. Then they take a rest and us git a -rest and slept. My grandpappy was one of de free niggers. Him was a -Stitt family nigger, a blue-eyed nigger. - -"Money? Lord help me, no! As I 'member, us had plenty to eat, sich as -peas, beans, greens, lye hominy, and 'lasses but no flour bread. - -"My young marster, Sam, was kilt in de war but Marse Tom went off and -settle in Arkansas. - -"What clothes us have? Just 'nough to hide our secret parts in summer. A -shirt for de boys and a slip-over for de gals. They was made out of -weave cloth, dat us spin of de cotton dat us picked out of de field. Wid -all de drawbacks, us was happy more then than now. - -"Us raise our own chickens and sing while us workin'. I never mind white -chillun callin' me 'nigger'. Dat was a nickname they call me. - -"Us was Presbyterians and b'long to de Jackson Creek Church, Lebanon. -Gallery was all 'round de up-stairs. Got a whippin' for goin' to sleep -up dere, one Sunday, and snorin'. In them days de preacher was powerful. -De folks mighty 'ticular when him come 'round and fill de back of his -buggy wid sumpin' of everything on de place, lak ham, chickens, eggs, -butter, marmalade, jelly, 'lasses, sugar, vegetables and fruit. Him put -in full time on Sunday though, preach 'bout two hours befo' he put on de -benediction. - -"What 'bout my courtin' days? Well, I had them, too. A Yankee want me to -go off wid him but I tell him no! Then when I 'fuse him, him 'suade -another gal to love him and leave wid him. Her come back to de place six -months later and had a baby by dat scamp man. - -"When I was fifteen, I marry Bill Moore. Stood up wid him, dat day, in a -blue worsted dress and a red balmoral over a white tuck petticoat, and -under dat, a soft pique chemise wid no sleeves. Had on white stockin's -and low quarter shoes. I had sweet shrubs all through my hair and it -held them all night and de nex' night, too. Sill make a big laugh 'bout -it, while nosin' in my hair and smellin' them sweet shrubs. - -"Dr. Turner was de doctor dat 'tended de Gladney's and de slaves on de -place. - -"How us git fire? Us git two flint rocks, hold lint cotton under them, -strike a spark, it drop down, set de cotton afire and then us fan it to -a blaze. - -"Yes sir, I see many good white men, more than I got fingers and toes, -but a low down white man can git low downer than a nigger man. A good -white lady telled me one time, dat a bad white woman is a sight worser -and more low downer than a bad nigger woman can ever git to be in dis -world. Now what you gonna day to dat, Mister? Well, if you have dat -notion too, us won't argue 'bout it. - -"Does I believe de Savior has a remedy for de laks of sich women? Let me -think 'bout dat a little bit. De Savior has a cure for things, all -things. How come he ain't? Didn't he give a woman de livin' water at de -well and make her white as snow? Then he run seven devils out another -woman, for just sich sins as us is talkin' 'bout, Mister! - -"Ku Klux? Does I 'member them? Dis left knee 'members them! One night de -big road full of us niggers was comin' from church. Just as us git to de -top of de hill us see, comin' up de hill, a long line of hosses, wid -riders dressed in pure white, hoods on deir heads, and painted false -faces. They busted into a gallop for us. I was wid my brudders, Luther -and Bill; they jump de side gully and got 'way in de woods. I jump but -de jump was poor as a cow, I reckon, and dis very leg crumple up. I lay -dere in my misery 'til daylight, and my brudder, Luther, come back and -carry me home. Dat word 'home' 'minds me I ought to be goin' dere now. -De Lord take a lakin' to you, and you to me! May you git to heaven when -you die and I git dat pension befo' I die. Amen!" - - - - -Silas Nelson - - - *Interview with Silas Nelson (74)* - *R#2 Trenton, S.C., c/o Mr. Walter Marsh* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Fer 69 years Mis' Marsh done had me a-workin fer her roun the garden en -house. Course Mr. Marsh had ter work me in de field wid my boys. Us has -two mules, Joe an Delia. Dey stays in our lot. I plows a little but my -time is a wearin'. But I gits long 'Oh Key'. - -"Mr. George W. Wire tuk and died. I nursed him. I good to them all. I'se -different from any other mens. I never eats milk and butter. Ain't tuck -no medicine in thirty-five year. When sun set I is at my house every -day. - -"Lays down only 'bout two hours, dats nother way I is allus curious in -de fac' dat at nights I allus has somethin ter do. De boys jes sits and -looks at me and dey don't say nary a word, dey jes looks at me. - -"Born in slavy, too little to tell much 'bout dat, cep I is different -from my chilluns. Dey calls me curious. My pa riz up four boys. Us had -four mules and hauled dirt to Graniteville evey day when us stayed -together. Three brothers older than me. I is allus been crazy 'bout -farmin, helped my paw evey day when I was young with everything. - -"When I wuz young no man could turn me down a workin. Now it ain't none -that ken turn me down a 'walkin". - - - - -Susan Nelson - - - *Interview with Susan Nelson* - *9 Trapman Street, Charleston, S.C.* - *Mrs. Arthur Lynah* - *Ashley Avenue, Charleston, S.C.* - --_Martha S. Pinckney, Charleston, S.C._ - -"FOREST", A FAITHFUL SERVANT - -Susan Nelson, 9 Trapman street, about eighty years old, daughter of -Paris ("Forest") and Christina Gibbs, is a fine type of trained house -servant. Tall, slim, and erect, she carries herself with dignity, and -curtsies with grace. Her color is dark brown, her features aquiline. She -seldom smiles. - -"I am the youngest of my family and they are all dead. I never had a -child. I was married in the Methodist Church, but my husband married -again. From the first I can remember, I lived in Charleston with my -mother and father. He had his freedom before the war and worked on the -Bay. When he came home from his days work he had a cot by the door where -he would lay down to rest, and all the time he used to tell me about -'those happy days', as he said. Ask Mrs. Arthur Lynah about my father; -she knows about him." - -Susan goes on with her story:-- - -"My father belonged to Judge Prioleau and was trained to wait on the -table from the time he was a boy; and this is how he nearly got a -whippin'--his master liked 'Hoppin John' and there was some cold on the -table--you know 'Hoppin John'? His master told him to 'heat it'; he -thought his master said 'eat it', so he took it out and sat down and eat -it. When he went back his master asked him where was the 'Hoppin John'? -Paris say he eat it. His master was mad--after waitin' all that -time--and say he should have a whippin'. But Mistress say 'Oh, no, he is -young and didn't understand'; so he never got the whippin'. - -"Later he was taken from waitin' on table to be his master's -body-servant and that was when his name was changed. One of the young -ladies, his master's daughter, was named Alice, and when he called -'Paris', it sounded like 'Alice', so his master named him 'Forest' and -he kept the name from that time, for his first and his last name, and he -always went by the name of Forest until he died." - -He went abroad with Judge Pricleau as his body-servant, and traveled in -Europe. (Authority--Mrs. Arthur Lynah) - -"In later years, when his master was paralyzed, Forest was his -attendant; and when his master died, Forest watched by him all night. He -lay down under the couch--they used to lay them on couches then--and he -slept there and wouldn't leave him, and stayed there all night; and his -mistress came in the early morning and kissed his master, and she said -'you here, Forest' and he answered, 'yes, mistress.' After that, -everything was changed. His mistress wanted to give him his freedom, but -the rest of the family didn't agree to that, so he went to Savannah with -'Mas Charles'. But though he was treated well he was so homesick that he -couldn't stay. He thought of his mistress and of the old home, and of -his mother, and he ran away and came back to the Plantation. Mas Charles -was so mad when he came after him that he was ready to whip him; but -when he saw how happy they were he agreed to give Forest his freedom." - -Before the War Between the States Forest was married, living in -Charleston, and working on the Bay. Susan remembers her terror when the -shells of the Federal bombardment were bursting over the city, and -recalls holding out her arms for someone to hold her. Her father had -returned home one afternoon and was resting from a hard days work, when -a shell crashed through the walls of their little home on Tradd street, -and passed immediately over him as he lay on his cot. The neighbors came -rushing in thinking that everybody had been killed, but the shell had -passed through, shattering the house but leaving Forest unharmed. He -lived to the age of ninety-seven, valued and respected; his daughter -carries on his good reputation, and is known by the name of SUSAN -"FOREST." - - - - -William Oliver - - - *Interview given by Uncle William Oliver, a boy in slavery time* - *Murrells Inlet, S.C.* - --_Genevieve W. Chandler, Murrells Inlet, Georgetown County, - S.C._ - -"Underground Railway? They give it that name being they had this way to -transfer the slaves. T.O. Jones was one of the officers. Growed up in -Illinois. - -"I was born in Horry--eight miles this side of Conway. The old Oliver -place. Father Caesar Oliver; Mother Janie. Mother born near Little -River--Jewitt place. Joe Jewitt raise my father. Had four brother, -twelve sister: - - One Trizvan - Two Sarah - Three Martha - Four William - Five Mary, the fifth - Six Lizzie, the sixth - Seven Emma, the seven - Eighth Alice, the eighth - Nine Joanna - Ten Havilla - Eleven Ella - Twelve Redonia - Thirteen Caesar - Fourteen Zackie - Fifteen Eddie - Sixteen (He could not remember) - -"Three boys so scattered about you can't tell anything about them. All -chimney, clay. All chimneys that day, clay. Moved right away soon as -Freedom came. Women done cooking and washing same as now. Shuck -mattress. My mother was a weaver. Old timey loom. Cotton and wool. -Sheckel (Shuttle?) - -"I remember one song my mother sang: - - Do, Lord, remember me! - Remember me when the year go round! - Do, Lord, remember me! - Why can't you die - Like Jesus died? - He laid in His grave! - He crippled some. - Some He saved. - -"I can't get it all. - -"My father head man on the plantation. Indigo? Cut the bush down. Put it -in sacks. Let it drip out. Call that indigo mud. Raise cattle and hogs -loose over the County. No cash money was give to slave. Had to get a -ticket. Hire they self out as stevedore--anywhere they could--and pay -Massa so much for the time. Smart slave do that. Oh, yes, my father do -that. If they keep themselves alive after freedom, they doing well. - -"Schooling? Only by night. And that couldn't be known. When he could get -any body to teach him 'ABC' but wasn't allowed to go to any school. - -"We'd eat peas, rice, cornbread, rye bread, sweetbread. Most molasses. -Game was all over the woods. Everybody could hunt everybody land those -days. Hunting was free. When I come along had to work too hard to hunt. -Could get pike out the lakes. Go fishing Sabbath. That was day off. -Sunday free day. Wild turkey. 'Possum. Don't bother with no coon much. -'Possum and squirrel all we could get. Had our garden. Different bean -and collard. Turnip. - -"Clothes? Regular wool and cotton. Maple dye and indigo. Red, blue, -gray. Lot of gray. Big slave owners had a shoemaker. Plenty of hides. -Cow hides, deer hides. - -"When I married, was working turpentine. Rent timber and cut boxes. - -"The cruelest treatment I know of in the United States and all the other -states was done in the Southwestern states. Take New Orleans. Galveston? -Was fixing to get to Texas. Texas beat the country for cruelty. They -tell me when your Master and Missus in this country want to make you do -your task, they threaten to sell you to Texas. Had a regular 'Vanger -Range' in New Orleans. Place they keep the slaves and auction them off. -Man by the name of Perry Ann Marshall. He was sold out there. He told my -father he'd be out in the field in the morning--hoe in hand. Had to get -out there 'fore it was light, hoe in hand. Boss man there with whip. -When light enough to hoe, give order, 'Heads up!' Then lots of women -fell dead over the hoe. Give order. 'Heads up!' you chop! Breakfast -bring to you in the field. Set right there by you hoe and eat till he -say, 'Heads up!' When women fell dead, lie right there till night where -the body drop--till you knock off. That's Texas! I call Texas 'Hell.' -Even today black man can't get no first class ticket Texas! - -"When you come right down to the truth, we always got up fore day most -of time. You could go visiting other plantation, but must have you a -ticket. Patrol catch you they whip you." - - - - -Albert Oxner - - - *Interview with Albert Oxner (75)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I was raised in Newberry County, S.C. on de place of Mr. Chesley Davis, -near Indian Creek. I now live in a rented house in 'Helena'. My -grandmother come from Virginia. Old man Tom Davis who lived near Indian -Creek was a grandson of Chesley Davis. My daddy was Oxner, his first -name was Wash. My mother was named Sidney Davis. My first wife was Polly -Miller and de second was Mary Mangum. - -"Marse would whip his niggers, but he wasn't a hard man. I peeped around -de house once when I was a little boy and saw him whipping a slave. - -"We got our vegetables from de white folks garden. We never had any of -our own. We had plenty home-raised meats and flour. We made our own -clothes at home by carding, spinning and weaving. We dyed dem by making -dyes from de barks of trees or red clay. - -"Marse had a big plantation, and 75 to 100 slaves. My mother was de -house-maid. She never learned to read and write, and none of us did, -either. - -"We use to hunt rabbits, 'possums, wild turkeys and squirrels, and we -went fishing, too. We never had to work on Saturday afternoons or -Sundays unless we had to take fodder or straw to de barn to keep it from -getting wet. - -"Corn-shuckings and log-rollings was common in dem days. De workers had -supper when dey got through. Niggers went to white folks' churches and -set in de back or in de gallery. A few years atter de war, de niggers -made brush arbors to use for preaching. - -"Old man Chesley Davis and two of his boys sho liked to drink liquor. -His baby boy was bad to drink. We had barbecues in dem days and nearly -every man would get drunk. - -"Later on, old man Davis tried to preach. He preached some at de Baptist -church at Bush River, and at Fairview Baptist church, about four miles -above where he lived. - -"I don't remember much about de Ku Klux. I never saw any of dem. I -remember a little about de Red Shirts. I don't remember anything about -slaves getting forty acres of land and a mule when freedom come. Since -de war, de niggers have worked on farms and done odd jobs in town." - - - - -Ann Palmer - - - *Interview with Ann Palmer (90)* - *120 N. Church St., Union, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"De cows lowed fer days befo' Will Abrams died. Dey got wusser and -wusser jes' right 'mediately befo' he died. De owls, dey had been -hollering in dis here holler down behind Miss Belle's house fer mo' dan -a month. One day Miss Belle, she 'lowed she ain't never heard so many -screech owls befo' dis in her life. I had done fetched her one of my -collards. We was a-talking out on de back porch. - -"I took and told her 'bout how Will had done got his finger infected -fooling wid dem dead folks. Miss Belle, she say dat ain't got nothing to -do wid Will being sick. She also 'lowed dat dat wasn't any reason fer -dem owls a-screeching and gwine on so. Den I told her, I says, 'Miss -Belle, ain't you heard de cows, how dey lows at night here recently? -Yes'm, all dese is death signs; it ain't gwine be long neither befo' we -hears 'bout somebody a-dying in dese here parts.' Miss Belle, she look -at me sort of furious like, but she never say nothing dat time. - -"Dat night de beastes was a-taking on so dat I had to hold my pulse. -Fust (first), real tight like dis; den I presses harder and harder till -I jes' natchelly squeeze all de blood out of my wristes. Dat is one of -de best signs I knows fer making dem owls and cows git quiet. Yes sir, -you has to hold your pulse fer five whole minutes, tight. When you does -dis, de owl's voice, he git lower and lower as your pulse git weaker and -weaker. Look, honey chile, all dese other niggers, dey had been a-tying -up a sheet or a-putting de shovel in de fire, and a-turning over de -nasty old shoes; but de owls, dey kept right on a-screeching. But dis -old darky, she de one what know'd how to weaken 'em down by holding her -pulse. Now, I doesn't tell dese young niggers 'round here; neither does -I tell many white folks 'bout de wisdom I is learn't 'bout such things. - -"Will Abrams, he been ailing fer I [TR: disremembers] how many weeks. He -couldn't eat nothing but beans. I had beans in my bottom corn. -Catherine, she axed me fer some and I give 'em to her. Will, he eat 'em, -fer dat was his craving. His finger got wusser till it nearly driv him -crazy. Den he got down and took to de bed. Look like his time, it was -drawing nigh. - -"White folks, de Jedgement is a-coming. We's all got to face it. De -folks is wicked, both black and so is de white. How dey 'spects de good -Lawd to have mercy on de wicked and sinful souls de way dey does every -day is mo' dan aunt Ann can see, and I is already done lived my ninety -years. De Lawd, He still sees fit to bless me wid health; and de good -white folks, He 'lows dem to help me. - -"How could Dr. Dawkins or either Dr. Montgomery do Will any good when de -Lawd, He done sot de hour? Dr. Montgomery, he 'lowed to Catherine dat -Will had two chances to die and one to live. He also said dat he had -done his best. All de darkies and white folks, too, in Union, dey come -over here to see Will. Lots of 'em fetched 'em some things along to give -to Will. He was a good man 'cause he had done been born again, and he -followed 'de straight and narrow path'. Dat's de reason dey liked him, -'cause his deeds, dey up and spoke fer him. Well, so many folks was -a-gwine in dat room dat Dr. Montgomery, he say Catherine have to keep -dem out. Will, he kept a-gitting weaker and weaker. De ailing in his -finger had done spread all over his chest. Dr. Montgomery and Dr. -Dawkins, dey held a consulation. When dey come out dey told Catherine -and dem others dat Will had done took and got pneumonia from dat finger. -So dat night, even de dogs, dey took to howling and gwine on. 'Tain't no -use to set dar and laugh when de owls screeched and de cows lowed and de -dogs howled. It sho am de death sign. - -"Hard work, trouble, and a-fooling wid dem dead folks, dem de things -what make Will go away so easy. He was always a-running 'round a-gitting -sorry niggers out of scrapes, and a-making 'greements wid de white folks -fer 'em; and dey never thanked him half de time. Us old folks, us told -him to stop fooling wid dem dead niggers and all such as de like, 'cause -he gwine to kill his-self. I is most blind, but de darkies, dey told me -how Will fooled 'round a-doing things fer so many sorry folks. - -"But den, God plucks his flowers. De night of de eighth day dem doctors -had done 'lowed dat Will had pneumonia. Will look up at his wife and -say, 'Git dese folks out of here so I can die by myself'. - -"It was 'leven o'clock in de morning when dey come and told me. Susie -Eubanks, she 'lowed dat de screeching of de owls wake her up dat morning -'bout 3 o'clock. I 'lowed dat a dog a-howling was what riz me up. -Catherine 'lowed dat she hadn't laid down no time till she heard Gus's -cow a-lowing. All de signs took and failed den, as dey will do on such -occasions." - - - - -George Patterson - - - *I* - *Interview with George Patterson* - *653 Peachtree St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -While seeking an interview with an ex-slave today, the writer was -directed to a certain house where an old man lived. Entering the -premises by the rear, he observed an old man helping a woman who was -washing some clothes. He was stepping around quite lively, carrying -water and emptying one pot after another of the dirty water already used -by the woman. After he had sufficient water for his wife's needs, he -asked the writer to go with him to the front porch where he could be -quiet and talk. - -He stated that he was large enough during the Civil War to wait on the -soldiers when they would come to his master's home for something to eat, -which was at Kilgore's Bridge on Enoree River, said that his job during -the slavery days was to wait on the white folks and watch the -plantation. - -He also stated that his father was a full-blooded Indian who was sold to -his master by Joe Crews, the biggest slave trader in the country. His -father was stolen somewhere in Mississippi, along with other Indians, -and sold into slavery with the "niggers." He said his father told him he -was stolen by Joe Crews when he was a young buck. At that time, his -father went by the name of "Pink Crews," but after he was purchased by -Mr. Joe Patterson, his name became "Pink Patterson." He stated that his -mother was a white woman who came from Ireland and was working on the -Patterson farm. She was not a slave, but was married to his father by -his "Marster." - -They lived in a one-story, one-room log cabin which had a dirt floor. -The whole family of 18 children and parents lived in this small house. -They were comfortable, however, and all had good health. He stated that -he had not been sick for fifty years, and that the only trouble with him -now was a broken foot, the result of a railroad wreck about forty years -ago. He said his foot still gave him trouble in bad weather. - -He said that he had not been conjured at all, but had just gotten his -foot broken. "Conjuring and ghosts are all foolishness anyhow." The -nearest he ever come to seeing a ghost was one night when he observed a -"white thing moving back and forth across the branch." He had with him -his brother's cap and ball pistol, and he shot at the object two or -three times, knowing that his dogs would come to him if they heard the -shots. Two or three dogs came up and recognized him. He told one bull -dog to go to the white thing and see what it was. After the dog had been -all around the place where the thing was moving, he knew there was -nothing there to frighten him. Next morning, he went out to see the -object and found it to be a small tree with white leaves waving in the -breeze. - -Going back to slavery times, he said that on most plantations were kept -squirrel dogs, 'possum dogs, snake dogs, rabbit dogs and "nigger" dogs. -Each dog was trained for a certain kind of tracking. He used to train -the "nigger" dogs which were used to track slaves who had run away from -the plantation. He said he had two dogs that were sure never to lose the -scent when they had taken it up. "If I put them on your track here and -you went to Greenville, they would track you right to Greenville." - -He said his master did not allow his slaves to be whipped but he had -seen slaves on other plantations wearing chains to keep them from -running away. - -"People don't work like they used to, and this thing of higher education -is ruining niggers. All their learning teaches them is how to beat a man -out of a dollar and how to get out of work. It teaches them to cus, and -it teaches these young girls how to make easy money. As old as I am, -I've been approached by girls I didn't know and asked for a dollar. Now -that thing won't do. I believe in teaching children how to read and -write; but don't go any further than that. I've never seen a moving -picture. Once a man offered to give me a ticket to a movie, but I told -him to give me a plug of tobacco instead." When asked if he thought -colored preachers should be educated, he replied that when they are -educated they learn how to steal everything a man has, if they can. - -"You remember reading about Joe Crews and Jim Young--what they did in -this state? Well, they tried to lead all the niggers after the war was -over. I was the one who got Jim Young away from the whites. I carried -him to Greenville, but he got back somehow, and was killed. Joe Crews -was killed, too. The Ku Klux was after them hot, but I carried Jim Young -away from them. You know, the Yankees was after getting all the gold and -money in the South. After the war, some Yankee soldiers would come along -and sell anybody, niggers or whites, a gun. They were trying to get on -to where the white people kept their money. If they caught on, they -would go there and steal it. You know, there wasn't any banks, so people -had to keep their money and gold in somebody's safe on some big man's -place. These men in selling guns was trying to find out where the money -was hid." - -When asked about hunting, he said that hunting in slavery days was not -like it is now, for a man could hunt on his own place then and get -plenty of game. There were plenty of wild hogs in those days, as well as -wild turkeys, rabbits and squirrels. Some of the hogs were so wild that -no one dared to go into a pack of them, for they had tusks six inches -long, and could tear a man to pieces. A man could shoot a wild hog and -have no trouble over it. Cattle, he said, ran wild and were dangerous at -all times. - -"When you buy something now, you haven't got much. I bought a cake of -soap for my wife but it was a small thing. When we used to make our own -soap on the plantation, we had plenty of good soap." - -He said his father followed his master and others to the war, and he -drove artillery wagons at times. At Appomattox, his father told him that -he drove wagons over dead soldiers piled in ditches. His father lived to -be 111 years old. After he and his father were set free, they remained -with Mr. Joe Patterson to help him make that year's crops; then they -moved to another place. - -He heard that work was plentiful in Spartanburg, and he moved here and -did various kinds of work. He said that he was not as strong as he used -to be, but that he could still do a full day's work except when his foot -troubled him. - -Uncle George was quite polite and seemed glad to talk of old times. He -observed, though, that in old times people would speak to him. "You go -up to a crowd now, and they won't speak. They won't notice you." - - *II* - *Interview with George Patterson* - *653 Peachtree St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -George Patterson, ex-slave, says that during the Civil War and -afterwards, when the owners of plantations in the Enoree River section -had a surplus of peaches and apples, they made apple and peach brandy; -and after they had filled kegs with it, rolled the kegs into a pond to -keep them from leaking until they were either sold or taken out for -personal use. Corn and rye whiskey were also stored in the water to keep -the kegs from leaking. In those days, he stated, good whiskey sold for -40 cents a gallon. Butter sold for five cents a pound; eggs six cents a -dozen, and hens that now cost 75 cents a piece, sold for ten cents. But -stated George, salt was very dear and hard to get; a barrel costing as -much as $50. - -George also stated there were plenty of wild turkeys, ducks and wild -geese on the Enoree River. The turkeys would ravage a garden or scratch -up the planted seed on the plantation. He has often been sent out to -frighten the wild turkeys away from the crops. He said plenty of meat -could be secured by shooting the wild hogs that roamed the woods, that -anybody was at liberty to kill a hog. Of course, some once tame hogs -mingled with the droves of wild hogs but the tame hogs had the owner's -name on them; so one had to be very careful that he did not shoot a -marked hog. He said that when his father, an Indian, was stolen by Joe -Crews, from the woods of Mississippi, he marched them with niggers he -had also stolen, or traded for, into different sections of the country, -selling them as slaves and speculating on them. He drove them just like -cattle and would stop at various plantations and sell the Indians and -niggers into slavery. - - - - -Sallie Paul - - - *I* - *Interview with Sallie Paul, 79 years* - *Marion, S.C., Fairlee Street* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"I remember we colored people belong to de white folks in slavery time. -Remember when de war was gwine on 'cause we hear de guns shoot en we -chillun jump up en holler. Yes, mam, I remember dat. Remember de 30th of -dis October, I was 79 years old. - -"No, mam, I ain' got no kin people. You see I been born in North -Carolina. Government lady get Lindy Henderson to stay here en look out -for me 'cause it be like dis, I can' see out my eyes one speck. Can' -tell de night from de day. Don' discover daylight no time, child. We -rents dis here house from Miss (Mrs.) Wheeler en Lindy treats me mighty -good." - -(Lindy: "Well, we gets along nicely. I done feed her up en she get back -in bed, it be so cold en ain' got no coal to heat her. Yes, mam, has to -wait on de Salvation of de Lord. Government gives us a little small -salary, but we has to live mighty small, mighty small. Honey, it takes a -right sharp to live on dese days. If dey wasn' helpin me, I just don' -know, be as I ain' much dese days. Got dis high blood so worser en den I -has such a achin in my joints en throat dat does worry me right smart -too.") - -"My white folks, dey was de Williamsons dere in North Carolina. Yes, -mam, dey was good to dey colored people. We lived right in dey yard or -dat what you may say in de yard. All de colored people lived dere side -de yard whe' dey be close enough to holler if anything get de matter. -You see, I wasn' big enough to do no work much den only as we chillun -tote up wood for de white folks en piddle 'bout de yard. I know I won' -big enough to do nothin but jump up en keep fuss gwine all round de yard -dere. I remembers dey used to get a handful of switches en stand us -chillun up in a long row en give us all a lick 'bout de legs. You see, -dey didn' work de chillun when dey was little bit of things en stunt dem -up. Chillun grow to be 'bout 12 or 13 years old fore dey work dem in dat -day en time. - -"My white folks was well off peoples, honey. My Massa, he run three -plantations en he had a heap of colored peoples dere. You see, people -didn' run over de ground in dat day en time like dey do now. De men lift -up every piece de dirt in de ground en get all de roots out it. My -mother, she was one of de plow hands dere en when time come to lay off -de ground, she force to work out. Dat de reason we chillun be up in de -yard twixt meals. Den when breakfast en supper come, we eat to we house. -Live close enough to de white folks house dat de nigger chillun could go -to de house en get dey hominy en clabber 'tween meals. Oh, dey have dese -here long wooden trays set up somewhe' under de tree dere in de yard dat -dey would full up wid hominy en clabber for we chillun. Give some spoon -en dem others never had none. Dat it, all eat out de same tray right -side together. Yes, mam, when I was raise up, have plenty to eat en -chillun never fail to get it." - -(Lindy: "Oh, child, we was bred en born in a fat kitchen in dat day en -time. We was well taken care of. People say I don' look like it 'cause I -here gwine 'bout wid stick in my hand. Sho was raise up in a fat -kitchen. Yes, mam, I was raise to do all de cookin en de nursin for de -white folks. Ain' never see no kitchen yet dat dey could lost me in -'cause I was trained myself. Never had no chance to go to school no -time. You see, if it wasn' cookin, it was chillun. 'Bout time new baby -come, dat first baby be knee child en so on like dat. Well, let me hush -now, honey, en let Sallie tell you dat what in her mind. She de one what -you come to get speech from.") - -"Yes, mam, de people ate like dey eats now, but dey didn' never know -what a stove was in dem days. Some of de kitchen fireplace, you could -put a whole railin in it to hang de pots on. Den dey had dem big old -clay chimneys wid dirt ovens dat would hold a bushel of tatoes to a -time. Just was a brick chimney now en den in slavery time. Bake all de -cakes en de bread right dere on de fireplace. Child, dere sho been more -to eat in slavery time den dere be now en I know dat all right. Dere -been more sheep en hogs en cows en goats. No, mam, I don' think I like -goat. I don' think so. I recollects I tried to eat some goat one time en -it swell in my mouth. Know I wouldn' eat sheep neither. It a sin. Seem -like dey so humble. - -"White folks didn' give de niggers no money no time, but dey had money -in slavery time much so as dey does now. You see, all de white folks -wasn' equal. Some was poor en de colored people sell dem things dey -white folks never want. Oh, dey take anything you carry dem. - -"I don' know nothin 'bout de Yankees only I see dem come through dere de -day we was freed, but won' no great heap of dem come. Coase dey was -passin through dat country all durin de war en come to de colored -people's house en get somethin to eat. Yes, mam, colored people feed dem -en give dem somethin to travel on. It just like dis, de Yankees would -give de colored people dey good clothes en take dey rags. You see, dey -was desertin. Was runnin away en gettin back home. I don' know whe' if -de white folks know 'bout dey dere or not, but I know one thing, Massa -didn' see dem. - -"Yankees didn' do no harm nowhe' in dat country to nobody, white nor -colored. Never hear tell of dat, but white people was scared of de -Yankees as dey was of a rattlesnake. Yankees tell de colored people dey -was free as dey was, but just didn' know it. I know dey said dat 'cause -I was standin up listenin to dem just like any other child be standin -dere lookin up in your mouth. Den when de colored people was freed, heap -of de white folks died 'cause dey grieve demselves to death over de loss -of dey property. Sho know dat 'cause I see dem en hear tell 'bout it -plenty times. - -"Dere been plenty white folks dat wouldn' never fight against de Yankees -widout dey couldn' get out of it. Dey slip off en hide in pits dey dig -in de woods en in de bays. Some of dem say dey didn' have no slaves en -dey won' gwine fight. Dat de way it be, if dey didn' fight, dey had to -run away en stay in de woods. Dat point me to think 'bout how young -Massa would slip off wid de colored boys on a Sunday to play like white -people will do en would learn dem to read. Carry old Webster's Blue Back -wid dem en when dey been way off yonder, young Massa would learn dem to -read. My father could read, but he couldn' never write. - -"Yes, mam, white folks get handful of switches en whip de nigger chillun -round de legs, but wouldn' never whip none of de grown 'omans 'cause dey -was breedin. Didn' kill niggers whe' I was born." - -(Lindy; "My Lord, child, reckon dey would 'bout beat me to death if I -been livin den 'cause I done had two husbands en ain' never bear no -child yet. Doctor tell me if I want a child, I would have to go to de -hospital en be operated on en I wouldn' never get my mind fixed to do -dat. Honey, I lies down in dat bed dere at night en thanks my God dat I -ain' never had dat operation. I know I been bless 'cause dis de time of -Revelations de people livin in. Don' want no child my God gwine hold me -responsible for at de Jedgment. Sho bless 'cause like I see de world -gwine, people ain' got no time to be gettin ready to meet dey God. Tell -my God dat I thank he a thousand times again dat I been make like I is. -It a blessin, honey, a blessin.") - -"Yes, mam, de white folks make dey own cloth right dere on de plantation -in dem days. Dey had a loom house, but my mother had a loom right to her -own door. Sometimes, she would weave piece for de white folks en den she -weave for herself. White folks find all de colored people's clothes en -see to have all dey weavin done in dat day en time. Dey had certain one -of de colored people to do all de common weavin, but dey couldn' do dem -three en four treadle till dey Missus learn dem how. My old Missus could -weave any kind of cloth or blankets or anything like dat. - -"Oh, de white folks be right dere to look after dey colored people if -dey get sick. Coase dey gwine take care of dey niggers. Gwine save dem -just as long as dey got breath in dey body. Won' no niggers gwine suffer -if dey need doctor neither. Heap of dem was cared for more better in -slavery time den dey is now 'cause dey had somebody dat had to care for -dem or lose dem one. Ain' no white folks want to lose dey niggers. - -"No, God! no, God! I hear talk 'bout it, but I don' know whe' dey can do -it or not. If dey can conjure, dey keep it to demselves. Dey never tell -me. I hear tell of dem things call ghosts, but I ain' never see none of -dem en ain' never see no hant neither. I has see a spirit though. -Peoples dat been dead, dey appears fore you en vanishes. Seen dem all -right. Dem things call ghosts en things, I don' wanna see none 'cause I -don' know 'bout dem. Hear talk of dem, but ain' seen nothin like dat. - -"Well, it like I tellin you, everybody didn' hate dey white folks. Dat -how-come some niggers stayed right on dere wid dey white people after -freedom en farmed for half what dey made on de crop. You see, dey didn' -have nothin to work wid so dey stayed on dere en farmed on shares. - -"I couldn' exactly tell you which de better times dese days or in -slavery time. I know heap of de colored people fared better when dey -belonged to de white folks 'cause dey had good owners. Didn' have to -worry 'bout huntin dey clothes en somethin to eat in dat day en time. -Just had to work. Now dey have to hunt it en get it together de best way -dey can. Oh, honey, peoples has so much worraytions dese days. Dat -how-come dey ain' live a long time like dey used to." - - *II* - *Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79* - *Marion, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"No, mam, I ain' able to see none tall no time. Dis here one of my eye -is weaken from dat other one. Cose I can tell de day from night, but say -see somethin, I couldn' never do dat. - -"Well, I don' know nothin more to speak 'bout den dat I been tell you -dem other times you come here. It just like I tell you, we nigger -chillun would look to de white folks yard in de day, but we stayed to us -house in de quarter on a night. Oh, we lived close enough to de white -folks yard to know dere was cookin gwine on in de Missus kitchen. No, -child, we never eat us meals to de white folks house. You see, all de -niggers on de plantation would draw rations den just like heap of dese -people 'bout here draw rations dese days. I mean dey would draw so much -of ration from dey Massa to last dem a week at a time just like de -people draw government ration right 'bout here now. Dere was sho a -plenty to eat in dat day en time, too, 'cause I know whe' I come up, I -was raise on a plenty. Dere was abundance of meat en bread en milk all -de time. Yes, mam, cows won' lackin no time whe' I was raise. I remember -dey would give us chillun all de milk en hominy us could eat twixt -meals. Always fed de nigger chillun to de white folks yard twixt meals. -You see, dey was mighty particular 'bout how dey would raise en feed de -little niggers in dem days. Been more particular den you would be -particular wid a ten dollar bill dis day en time. Would keep dey little -belly stuff wid plenty hominy en milk same as dey was pigs. Dey do dat -to make dem hurry en grow 'cause dey would want to hurry en increase dey -property. De white folks never didn' despise to see a big crop of nigger -chillun comin on. Hear tell dat some of de white folks would be mean to -dey colored people, but never did see nothin of dat kind 'bout my white -folks' plantation. Cose de colored people would be let loose to get -together on a night en when Sunday come. Dat all de time dey ever had to -visit 'cause dey been force to work from sunup on de hill till sundown -over de swamp. - -"Oh, de colored people had plenty song in slavery time, but I ain' -studyin nothin 'bout dat now. My 'membrance short dese days, child. Yes, -mam, de colored people had so many song in slavery time, I can' remember -de first word. Dey would sing anything dey could make a noise wid. Some -of dem could read out de hymn book en some of dem couldn' tell one word -from de other. Yes, mam, some of de young Massa would steal off to de -woods wid dey colored mate on a Sunday evenin' en learn dem to read. No, -Lord, dere won' no schools nowhe' for de colored people in dem days. -White folks catch nigger wid a book, nigger sho know he gwine get a -whippin soon as dat tale let loose. Now en den dey young Massa would -learn dem, but dey wouldn' never let dey fore-mammy know 'bout it. Cose -dey couldn' never write, but some of dem could read. Massa en Missus -never know 'bout it though. - -"Now, it de Lord truth, honey, I ain' want to mislead you noway. Wouldn' -do dat for nothin. Don' lay no mind to heap of dis talk I hear some -people speak 'bout. I gwine talk 'bout what I been touch wid. Some of de -colored people fared good en some of dem fared bad in slavery time. Some -of dem had good owners en some of dem had bad ones. Thank de Lord, I -didn' get much of it 'cause I won' but nine years old when freedom come. -(Whe' de lady? Gone?). (The old woman is totally blind and remains in -bed all the time). Some of de white folks had dese here overseers en dey -was rough owners. Thank God, I was little en dey never didn' whip me -exceptin little bit 'bout de legs dere in old Massa yard. Remember dey -cut we chillun round de legs wid a switch sometimes when dey would want -to punish us en learn us better sense. Honey, us had a good old Massa. -Won' no cuttin en slashin gwine on round us like dere was on dem other -plantations round dere. My blessed a mercy, lady, some of dem grown -niggers mighty as well been dead in dat day en time, de overseers been -so mean. De little chillun wouldn' never be force to work like dey is -now. Dey would just be playin 'bout dere in old Massa yard en totin wood -for dey Missus. Wouldn' have to work in slavery time 'cause dey had -somebody to feed dem. Dat de difference, dey have to work for what dey -get dis day en time en ain' be satisfied wid it neither. - -"Well, I don' know nothin 'bout dem cornshuckin dey used to have only as -dey would gather de crop in dem days en haul it up to de white folks big -old farm barn. Den dey would ax all de white folks 'bout dere to send -dey hands dere to shuck corn one night. En pray, dey would have such a -whoopin en a hollerin en de like of a big supper dere dat night. My -blessed Lord, dat was a big time for we chillun. One man would have corn -shuck to his barn one night en dey would all help shuck corn to another -man barn de next night. You see, people was more mindful to bless one -another in dat day den dey be dese days. Yes, mam, neighbor been please -to turn good hand to neighbor den. - -"Oh, dere ain' been no end to fine victuals in dat day en time. You know -dere was a plenty to eat in slavery time 'cause de people made somethin -to eat den, but ain' nothin now hardly. Child, dis a tight time we gwine -through dese days. I remember dey used to have plenty 'tatoes en bread -en fresh meat every day en have heap of sheep en cows en goats all 'bout -de woods den, but dere ain' nothin growin in de woods dese days. Now, if -a man got a hog, he got it by de tail in de pen. No, mam, de most of de -people ain' got nothin now en dey ain' got nothin to buy somethin wid -neither. - -"I don' know, child. I settin here in dis bed day in en day out wid dese -old bare eye en I don' know how de people gwine. I don' study nothin -'bout dem. I know I don' care how or which a way dey gwine 'cause I -studyin 'bout most all my days behind me now. Plenty people ain' livin -good as dey used to live long time ago. Seems like de times is tighter -en worser den what dey used to be. Reckon de reason be dere was more -made to eat den. Pa always tell we chillun dat it a sign de times gettin -better when dere more made to eat, child." - - *III* - *Interview with Sallie Paul, age 79* - *Marion, S.C.* - --_Annie Ruth Davis_ - -"I ain' tryin to remember nothin 'bout my mammy when she was a girl. I -know I hear dem speak 'bout old Massa bought her en my grandmammy from -off de block en raised dem to a good livin. Hear talk dat some of de -colored people 'bout dere would catch old Harry in slavery time, but -dere won' nothin snatchin noways 'bout my white folks. I mean some of de -colored people would catch de devil in dat day en time 'cause dey come -up under a rough boss. Just had half enough to eat en had to stir 'bout -half naked most all de time. Not been took care of as dey should have -been. - -"Cose when we was chillun, de grown people would be force to punish us -some of de time. Yes, mam, I do know what would happen to me, if I been -get in devilment. I would get a whippin right den en dere. Nobody -wouldn' never whip me, but old Massa en my mammy 'cause people won' no -more allowed to whip anybody child den dey is dese days. My child done -anything wrong den, you had to come to me 'bout it. I recollects, dey -would whip us chillun wid tree switches round us legs. Den if dey would -want to spare de punishment, dey would try to scare us out de mischief. -Tell us Bloody Bones would jump out dat corner at us, if we never do -what dey say do. - -"Oh, I here to tell you, dey had de finest kind of enjoyments in dem -days. It was sho a time, to speak 'bout, when dey had one of dem -quiltings on de plantation. Didn' do nothin but quilt quilts en dance en -play some sort of somethin after dey would get done. Colored people -would have quiltings to one of dey own house, up in de quarter, heap of -de nights en dey would frolic en play en dance dere till late up in de -night. Would enjoy demselves better den de peoples do dese days 'cause -when dey would get together den, dey would be glad to get together. Oh, -my Lord, dey would dance en carry on all kind of fuss. Yes, mam, blow -quills en knock bones together dat would make good a music as anybody -would want to dance by. Child, dey had plenty scraps to make dey bed -clothes wid, 'cause dey Missus would save scraps for dem. - -"Yes, mam, de white folks would furnish de colored people wid clothes -for true in dat day en time. Dey couldn' let dem go naked. How dey gwine -work wid bare back? Cose dey fine clothes, dey managed to get dat -demselves. You see, white folks wouldn' give dem no Sunday frock, but -one. I tell you, de cloth was better wearin' den. Dis here cloth dese -days, wear it two or three times, de wind could 'bout blow through it. -Oh, dey had de finest kind of silk in slavery time. Don' hear no silk -rattlin' 'bout here dese days, but would hear silk rattle in slavery -time just as same as would hear paper rattlin'. Colored people wore just -as much silk in dem days as dey do now 'cause when dey had a silk dress -den, it been a silk dress. Won' no half cotton en half silk. Goods was -sho better den, child, I say. Like I tell you, when a man had a -broadcloth suit den, it won' no half jeanes. All de colored people, dat -been stay on my white folks plantation, had dey own little crop of corn -en fodder 'bout dey house en when a peddler come along, dey would sell -dey crop en buy silk from de peddler. Dey been sell dey crop to anybody -dey could. Dere was always a poor one somewhe' dat been need corn en -fodder. - -"No, mam, colored people didn' have no church of dey own in slavery time -'cause dey went to de white folks church. All I can tell you, we went to -buckra's church en dey set in one part de church en us set in de -gallery. Yes, mam, de white folks would see to it dat all dey niggers -never chance to miss church service no time. En de slave owners would -bury dey plantation niggers right dere to de colored people graveyard -behind de church, dat was settin right side de white people graveyard. - -"I won' married till long time after freedom come here en when I get -married, de colored people had dese here bresh (brush) shelters for dey -church en dey had dey own colored preacher, too. Honey, I marry a Paul, -a slavery one, but I didn' have no big weddin. Didn' want none. Just -married dere to my father's house en I had a white dress dat was made -out of cotton, all I can tell. Know it won' no silk. I don' know nothin -more den dat to tell you. Dat de mighty truth, all I know, I had me a -husband en dat won' no great blessin, to speak 'bout. - -"Don' ax me, child. Ax somebody dat know somethin 'bout dem things -people say is a charm. I say, dey is ignorant people what believe in -dem. I know I ain' never wear nothin round my foot 'cause I ain' got no -dime to spend, much less to be puttin it round my foot. I calls dat -nothin but a foolish person dat would do dat, ain' you say so? I see a -woman once wear a twenty-five cents piece tie round her ankle en I ax -her what she do dat for. She tell me she had de rheumatism en she hear -dat would cure it. I tell her I ain' had no mind to have no faith in all -dat what I hear people speak 'bout. Dat won' nothin but a devil been -talkin to dat woman, I say. - -"My God a mercy, I tell you, slavery time was somethin. Dat been a day. -Colored people didn' have no privileges den only as dey Massa would let -dem loose on a Saturday evenin' en on a Sunday. But, child, dey was just -as proud of dat as people is proud of a month dese days. Didn' have no -more privileges in slavery time den dese people got now in dis here -chain gang. No, mam, niggers belong to dey owner in slavery just like -you got a puppy belong to you. Make dem go so far en den stop. - -"What I think 'bout Abraham Lincoln? I ain' took time to have no -thoughts 'bout him. Hear so much talk 'bout him till I don' know what he -done. Hear talk dat he been de one dat free de slaves, but whe' de -power? De power been behind de throne, I say. God set de slaves free. De -Lord do it. Abraham Lincoln couldn' do no more den what God give de -power to do. It just like dis, I believes it was intended from God for -de slaves to be free en Abraham Lincoln was just de one what present de -speech. It was revealed to him en God was de one dat stepped in en fight -de battle." - - - - -Lina Anne Pendergrass - - - *Interview with Lina Anne Pendergrass* - *Union, S.C., Rt. 1* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I'se born 10 years befo' Freedom on a Christmas day. Marse Tom Sanders, -whose place I'se born on, lived in Chester County. One of my first -'memberances is a dream. I though' I saw my little sister, Sars, laying -on a cooling board. I was five years old at dat time. I woke my mother -up and tole her 'bout it, but it was jus' a dream an' wasn't nothin' to -it. - -"I never had no schooling and the Ku Klux sho scairt me. They took my -daddy; my brother was too young. It was on Sat'day night. Next day was -Sunday, and dey didn't fix de doors what de Ku Klux broke down. Us -nebber did see pa no mo'. - -"As it was in de day of Noah, so shall it be in de coming of de days of -Jesus Christ. Peoples fitting and a-killin' and a-scrappin' all de time -now, kaize dey don't take no time to go to prayer meeting. My -grandfather had a prayer-meeting house. All de niggers on de plantation -went to it ever Sat'day night. Dey sot on benches, and den dey would git -down on dere knees and pray. I was a little gal, and me and de other -gals would fetch water for dem to drink. Us toted pine when it was cole, -and us'd take coals 'round fer de ole folks to light dere pipes wid. -Atter while, dey git to singin' and shoutin'. Den de Spirit done come -down and tuck hole of dem. Dat would be when everybody would get happy. -De ole rafters creak and shake as de Spirit of de Lord sink deeper and -deeper in de hearts of the prayin' folks. Tate Sanders, de preacher from -Lowryville, would come in 'bout dat time and raise his hands 'bove de -congregation and plead wid de Lawd to open de hearts of de wicked so dat -de Holy Spirit could come in. Wasn't no killin' and scratchin' going on -in dem days. De ole folks tell us chillun dat if we do wrong, de Lawd -gwine come down in His wrath and punish us on dis earth. Sides dat, He -gwine send us to torment whar we's live in 'ternal hell fire. De worl' -is so wicked now dat I'se looking fer de locust to come and stay five -months and sting everybody in de fo'head dat ain't got religion. Den -people will be so 'shame of deself fer dere wickedness dat dey will seek -death, and dey won't be able to get no death. - -"De Lawd, He is a-pressin' me on up. Yes, Lawd, Revelation is wonderful. -De comin' out of smoke, dem's de devil's angels. When you reads de Word -of de Lawd, take an interes' in it. De people dat I knows is so wicked -dat my heart keeps anguished. - -"I learnt myself how to read. My pa brought a Bible from de war. I has -dat and I reads it. My pa got shot comin' from Mississippi. Marse -Sanders hear about it and he sont and brung him home. Den us lived 15 -miles from Chester on Broad River. My pappy was named Henry Dorsey. When -he was young, he was Marse Sander's butler boy. He got well from de -shot. Den de Ku Klux got him for something. I ain't never knowed what. I -don't know what dey done when I was a baby. - -"I'se nussed since I was a little gal. My ma made me make teas to cure -folks' colds and ailments. She made me fetch her water and towels and -other things while she wait on de sick folks. Dat's de way I was broke -into nussing. Nineteen-eighteen laid out folks at Monarch. I started -right after breakfas' wid two dollars. Git home at night with narry a -penny. Git folks soup and milk. Everybody dat didn't get sick worked -hard. De folks died anyway like flies. De Lawd give me strength to stand -up through de whole time. When de flu pass on and de folks get well, den -dey pay me for my services. - -"Millie Nash, Andy's wife, she look atter me since I'se got ole. She -gooder to me dan anybody I know, but at de same time, she's aggravation -to me kaise she drink likker. Millie sho does git drunk, but I keeps on -prayin' fer her. Dis mawnin she's gwine to a funeral. She was poling -'long 'hind me and drapped her pocketbook. When us git ready to go into -de church, she stopped and grabbed hol' of me and say, 'Lina, whar my -pocketbook?' I looks at her and say, 'Nigger, how does I know whar'bouts -you throw dat thing down? You stayed 'hind me all de way from de ice -house. Didn't I tell you to let dat dram alone befo' you left de house?' -I sot down in front of de church and Millie turned around and went down -de street toward de ice house. She seed her pocketbook where she drapped -it, 'bout half way twixt de ice house and de church. When she come 'long -whar I was sitting, I 'lowed to her dat I'se gwine up to de relief -office. I lef' her and here I is. Won't be long befo' Millie be here, -too. De funeral done marched on when Millie got back to de church." - - - - -Amy Perry - - - *Interview with Amy Perry (82)* - --_Jessie A. Butler, Charleston, S.C._ - -Amy (Chavis) Perry is eighty-two years old. She is strong for her age -and lives alone in an old building at the rear of 21 Pitt street where -she supports herself by taking in washing. She is a self-respecting old -negress, with a reputation for honesty among the "white folks" whom she -considers her friends. - -Amy has two names, "like de people in doze times"--Amy Rebecca. She -"adopted the Rebecca." Her father was John Minser Chavis, a slave in the -McClure family, who, she claims, lived to be 116 years old, and "who -wukked up to de las'," and Sarah (Thompson) Chavis, who belonged to Mrs. -William Keller, an ancestor of the Cogswell family of Charleston. Amy -says she was given to Miss Julia Cogswell as a "daily gift," Miss Julia -having been a child at the same time that she was. In reply to a few -leading questions Amy gave the following story. - -"We is live in de country, near Orangeburg, and I remembers berry little -'bout de war and de time befo' de war. You see I bin berry little, I bin -only seben year old. Some ole people mek out like dey remembers a lot ob -t'ings." Here she gave the writer a quizzical look. "You know -imagination is a great t'ing. Dey eider mek all dat up or dey tell you -what bin tell dem. I got to stick to de trut', I 'members berry little, -berry little. I don't 'member much 'bout what we did in de country befo' -de war, nor what we eat, nor no games and such. I don't know what de big -people wear. De cullered people mek dey own cloth, and call um cotton -osnaburg. Dey mek banyans for de chillen. Sleebe bin cut in de cloth, -and dey draw it up at de neck, and call um banyan. Dey is wear some kind -ob slip under um but dat all. Dey ain't know nutting 'bout drawers nor -nutting like dat. - -"De medicine I remember was castor oil, and dogwood and cherry bark, -which dey put in whiskey and gib you. Dey is gib you dis to keep your -blood good. Dogwood will bitter yo' blood, it good medicine, I know. - -"I 'member de people hab to git ticket for go out at night. W'en dey is -gone to prayer meeting I is see dem drag bresh back dem to outen dey -step. If de patrol ketch you wid out ticket dey beat you. - -"I 'members w'en de Yankee come tru, and Wheeler a'my come after um. -Doze bin dreadful times. De Yankees massicued de people, and burn dere -houses, and stole de meat and eberyting dey could find. De white folks -hab to live wherebber dey kin, and dey didn't hab enough to eat. I know -whole families live on one goose a week, cook in greens. Sometimes they -hab punkin and corn, red corn at dat. Times was haard, haard. De -cullered people dodn't hab nutting to eat neider. Dat why my auntie -bring me to Charleston to lib. - -"De fust year atter freedom I gone to school on Mr. John Townsend place, -down to Rockville. After peace declare de cullered people lib on -cornmeal mush and salt water in de week and mush and vinegar for Sunday. -Mine you, dat for Sunday. I don't see how we lib, yet we is. About eight -year after de war we use to go down to de dairy for clabber. Dey give -you so much for each one in de fambly, two tablespoon full for de grown -people and one tablespoon for de chilluns. We add water to dat and mek a -meal. In de country de cullered people lib on uh third (crop) but of -course at de end of de year dey didn't hab nutting, yet dey has libed. I -'member w'en de Ku Klux was out too, de people bin scared 'cause dey is -beat some and kill some." - -When asked which she thought best, slavery or freedom, her answer was: -"Better stay free if you can stay straight. Slabery time was tough, it -like looking back into de dark, like looking into de night." - -Feeling that as she remembered so little of plantation life her opinion -was based on hearsay or her memories of war times, the writer told her -of the answer of another old Negro woman: "No matter what slabery bring, -if it hadn't been for slabery I nebber would hab met my Jesus." It -seemed to make a strong impression on Amy who threw up her hands in the -typical African gesture, and said "Praise de Lawd, w'en yo talk 'bout -Jesus you is got me coming and going." - -Amy is deeply religious. She owns four of Judge Rutherford's books which -she claims to have read "from cubber to cubber" many times. "Some people -b'lieve in dreams," she said, "but I don't hab no faith in dem. Lot ob -people b'lieve in root and sich but dey can't scare me wid root. I roll -ober dem from yuh to Jericho and dey wouldn't bodder me. A man died bad -right in dat house yonder, and I went wid de doctor and close his sight -and sich, and I come right home and gone to bed and sleep. He ain't -bodder me and I ain't see um since. I don't believe in ghosts, nor -dreams, nor conjuh, dat de worse. John de Baptist and dem dream dreams, -and de Lawd show dem vision, but dat diffrunt." With another comical -look at the writer, she continued; "You can eat yo' stomach full and -you'll dream. I b'lieve in some kind ob vision. You doze off, and you -hab a good dream. I b'lieve dat. People get converted in dreams. I was -twelve year ole when I get converted. I dreamed I was in a field, a -large green field. A girl was dere dat I didn't had no use for. I had a -bundle on my back. I honey de girl up and love um and de bundle fall on -de ground. Dey put me in de church den. - -"Some people say dey kin see ghost but you can't see ghost and lib. De -Bible say if you kin see de wind you kin see spirit. If you kin see -ghost you can see Gawd, and I know you can't see Gawd and lib. De Bible -say so. I don't b'lieve in um, no ghost, and no cunjuh tho' my uncle -Cotton Judson and my aunt Nassie both b'lieve in dem. Uncle Cotton could -do most as much as de debbul (devil) hesself, he could most fly, but I -nebber b'lieve in um no matter what he kin do." - -In order to get her to talk the writer told her of a few of the -accomplishments of the East Indians. She said, "Yes, Gawd got some -people mek berry wise. Dey can't say dey mek demself wise. What race -dese Indian come from, anyway, I know dem come from Indiana, but what -race, Ham, Seth, Japheth or what. I hear de Indian hab some wise ways, -and my people b'lieve in all kind ob ghost, and spirit an t'ing but I -don't. I don't eben let um talk to me 'bout dem, w'en det start I say -'gone gome wid dat.' I can't counteract de Bible and I can't counteract -Gawd, I don't b'lieve in um. Dat what I don't visit round. My people lub -(love) too much idle discourse, and idle discourse is 'gainst de Bible. -I nebber trapsy round w'en I young and I don't now. Day why I don't hab -no company. As long as ole people lib dey going to tell de young ones -'bout ghost an t'ing, and dey going to pass it on, and w'en dey die dey -going to leab dat foolishness right yuh. No I don't b'lieve in no conjuh -and no root. If dey gib me poison den dey got me." - - - - -Rob Perry - - - *Interview with Uncle Rob Perry & Aunt Della Britton* - *Trenton, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"Aunt Della born in 1863. He in 1864. He drove cows fer Marse Squire Jim -Perry, who lived on the line of Edgefield and Newberry Counties. Mos de -time dey traded in Newberry County, 'cause it nearer town. All road wuz -bad in dem days, even in summer dey wuz allus rough. - -"Uncle Rob toted water, picked up chips and carried rations fum kitchen -to dinin room. Often Messrs. Jim Long, Sam, Jake and Bob Smith, (3 -brothers) came to our big house fer dinner and to dance afterward. - -"Plenty water to tote and fires to build den. Go out an git pine and -cedar limbs to put over de picturs and 'roun de mantle boards' Fix up de -table wid trimmins, git mo candles and put all roun. Mak egg-nog in de -winter and mint juleps in de summer. Some time dar wuz sillabub, it -ain't so good tho. De young mens dat I mentioned befo have me ter pick -out pretty girls fer dem ter dance wid. I drap a curtsey an han' dem de -name. If dey want ter dance wid him they look at him and flick dey fan -an if dey didn't den dey never give him no mind. - -"Dat done all pass by as evry thing does. Now I thanks God and looks to -de Savior. Ef dar is success ter ye dat is what you has to do all de -time. Della and I done had fifteen chilluns. Us is so lonesome as we has -jes one a livin. - -"Mr. Campbell, a Yankee man married Miss Joanna Perry. Her paw wuz Mr. -Oliver Perry of Bouknight's Ferry on de Saluda River. In dat famly wuz -Miss Isabelle and Messrs. John, Milledge, Jake and Tom. Miss Joanna -marry on Friday in de parlor all fixed up wid cedar ropes a-hangin' fum -de ceilin an de mo-es candles what a body ever did see. She made us -buil' her a arch and kivver hit wid vines. It sot before de mantle and a -white bell hung fum de middle uv it. White cloth wuz stretched over -eveything and dey never let nobuddy walk in dat room cep in dey bare -feet fer fear dey dirty all dat cloth. - -"Miss Isabella sho picked de pianny fer Miss Joanna. A Young lady fum -anuther plantation sang two songs. All pur white ladies wore dey -pretties' white dresses wid flowers in dey hair. Miss Joanna had her -face all kivvered up wid er thin white cloth dat fell off'n her and laid -all back uv her on de floor. An de white ladies had dey white dresses a -layin over de floor but didn't none uv dem have dey faces kivvered cept -Miss Joanna, you see she wuz de bride. - -"My ole 'oman wuz rigged in white herself. Evvything in dat house wuz -fixed up extry fer da ceremony. I wo' one de men's black coats and black -pants and a white shirt wid a ves' an tie. I had on a fine pair black -shoes. Dey give all dat ter me en I kep it adder de weddin. Dat suit I -wore ter church fer de nex ten years. - -"Nex day, Saturday, come de big 'infair'. A double table wuz set up in -de dinin room. Ham, turkey en chicken wuz put on dat table dat wussent -teched. Dey jes stay dere along wid de fixins. All de victuals wuz -placed on de plates in de kitchen and fetched to de table. Five darkies -wuz kep busy refreshin de weddin diners. - -"Miss Joanna an de Yankee man what she done married de day befo dat, her -sister, de lady what sing en her maw an paw an de parson set at de table -what they calls de bridal table. Dat table had de mo-es trimmins on hit -of bows an ribbens and de like ob dat. I still sees Miss Joanna a settin -dare. She wo' her weddin dress jes zactly lak she did de day befo. She -never had her face kivvered up wuz de onliest change I seed. De weddin -dinner musta lasted two hours'. Atter dat de carriage came roun en -evvybody lined up along de front door by de cape jessamines ter throw -rice an ole shoes at de bride when she come outside de big house ter git -in de carrage. Evvybody wuz mighty spry to be done danced all de night -befo til de sun had showed red in de Eas' dat Sadday mornin. - -"Atter she gone off I jes' cud'n figger' out how Marse' had got so much -together fer dat weddin', kaise hit had'n been no time since de Yankee -so'ders had carried off ev'y thing and left us dat po'. But den sum -years has slipped by since dat. - -"When I turn back to go in de big house, I see de pea-fowls a sneakin' -off to de river rale 'shame 'kase dey never had er sign uv a tail. All -dey tail feathers wuz plucked ter make de weddin fans en ter go in de -Mistus an de gals hats. Dat sho wuz er big drove en dey is de pretties' -fowl whut dere is, an folks doesn't give dem no mine dese days." - - - - -Victoria Perry - - - *Interview with Victoria Perry* - *167 Golding St., Spartanburg, S.C.* - --_F.S. DuPre, Spartanburg, S.C._ - -Victoria Perry, who lives in Spartanburg, says that she was just a small -child when slavery times were "in vogue," being eight years old when the -"negroes were set free in 1865." Her mother, she said, was Rosanna -Kelly, and had lived in Virginia before she was bought by Bert Mabin, -who owned a farm near Newberry. She says that she was often awakened at -night by her mother who would be crying and praying. When she would ask -her why she was crying, her mother would tell her that her back was sore -from the beating that her master had given her that day. She would often -be told by her mother: "Some day we are going to be free; the Good Lord -won't let this thing go on all the time." Victoria said she was as -scared of her master as she was of a mad dog. She said her master used -to tie her mother to a post, strip the clothes from her back, and whip -her until the blood came. She said that her mother's clothes would stick -to her back after she had been whipped because she "bleed" so much. She -said that she wanted to cry while her mother was being whipped, but that -she was afraid that she would get whipped if she cried. - -"Whenever my master got mad at any of the niggers on the place, he would -whip them all. He would tie them to a post or to a tree, strip off their -clothes to the waist, and whip them till he got tired. He was a mean -master, and I was scared of him. I got out of his sight when he came -along. - -"My father was a white man, one of the overseers on the farm. I don't -know anything about him or who he was. I never saw him that I knowed of. -But the way Bert Mabin beat my mother was cruel. - -"One day a Yankee come by the house and told my master to get all the -colored people together; that a certain Yankee general would come by and -would tell them that they were free. So one day the niggers gathered -together at the house, and the Yankee general was there with some -soldiers. They formed a circle around the niggers and the general stood -in the middle and told us all we were free. My mother shouted, 'The Lord -be praised.' There was a general rejoicing among the niggers and then we -backed away and went home. My mother told me she knew the Lord would -answer her prayers to set her free. - -"I went hungry many days, even when I was a slave. Sometimes I would -have to pick up discarded corn on the cob, wipe the dirt off and eat it. -Sometimes during slavery, though, we had plenty to eat, but my master -would give us just anything to eat. He didn't care what we got to eat. - -"After we were set free, I went with my mother to the Gist plantation -down in Union. My mother always wanted to go back to her home at -Bradford, Virginia, but she had no way to go back except to walk. Work -was mighty scarce after slavery was over, and we had to pick up just -what we could get. My mother got a job on the Gist plantation, and -somehow I got up here to Spartanburg. - -"I married Tom Perry, and I have been here ever since, although he is -dead now. He was a brick-mason. - -"I sure was scared of my master, he treated us niggers just like we was -dogs. He had all our ages in a big Bible at the house, but I never went -there to see my age. My mother told me always to say I was eight years -old when I was set free. I am eighty now, according to that." - - - - -John Petty - - - *Interview with John Petty (87)* - *Hill Street, Gaffney, S.C.* - --_Caldwell Sims, Union, S.C._ - -"I was born on the Jim Petty place in what was then Spartanburg County. - -"Marse raised all his darkies to ride young. I no more 'members when I -learned to ride than I 'members when I come into the world. Marse had -his stables built three logs high from the outside of the lot. When the -horse step down into the lot, then I jump on his back from the third -log. So little that I never could have got on no other way without help. - -"The horse what I rid had a broad fat back and he trot so fast that -sometimes I fall off, but I hang on to the mane and swing back on his -back and he never break his gait. Then again if I didn't swing right -back up he take and stop till I git landed on his back once more. - -"One horse called Butler, farm horse named Tom, mule called Jack, slave -horse called Stoneman, then one called Cheny, one Jane, one Thicketty -and the stud-horse named Max. I allus play with him, but my folks was -ig'nant to that fact. I lay down and he jump straight up over me. I git -corn and he eat it from my hand. There was apples and salt that he loved -[HW: to eat] from my palm. He throw his fore legs plumb over my head, -and never touch me at all. All this gwine on in Max's stable. It big -enough for a dozen or more horses, 'cause it hardly ever beed that Max -git out and his stable had to be big so as he could exercise in it. So I -slip in there and we play unbeknownst to the old folks, white or black. -The door slided open. When I git tired and ready to go out then I slide -the door open. Maxie knowed that I was gwine and he had the most sense. -He watch till I git the door slid open and if he could he run by me and -jump out. I never could git him back in and he race 'round that lot till -the hands come in from the field at dark. He have a good time and git -all sweaty. - -"When he jump over me out'n the sliding door, then I hide under the feed -house till Mammy holler, 'Lawdy, fore the living, yonder is Max -a-ripping hisself plumb to he death in that lot.' Then they send for -some the mens to git him back. Atter they done that then I crawl out, -climb the lot fence and run through the field home. When I sets down Maw -'lows, 'Does you know it's real curious thing how that old stud-horse -git his door open and come out'n that stable. It must be haints creeping -'bout right here in the broad open daylight!' At that I draw up real -near the fire and say, 'Maw, does you reckon that the haints is gwine to -come and open our door some time?' - -"On t'other hand, if I be real quick a-gitting out of the stable door -before Max turn and see me, when then he couldn't git out. None of them -never knowed 'bout the good times that me and Max used to did have. And -it 'pears real strange to me now that he never did hit me with his foots -nor nothing. That horse sure 'nough did love me and that's jest all what -it is to that. I also used to slip in the extra feed house and fetch him -oats and the like 'twixt and 'tween times. He stay that fat and slick. -But it wouldn't nary lil' darky would go near that stud-horse but me. -They's all skeered to death when he git in the lot and when they seed -him in there they would run and git in the house and slam the door plumb -shut. - -"When I done come up nigh 18 or something like that, the big freedom -come 'round. Marse Jim say us could all go and see the world as we'uns -was free niggers. Us jump up and shout Glory and sing, but us never -sassed our white folks like it 'pears to be the knowledge up North. I'd -done been there and they thinks us turned our backs on our white folks, -but I never seed nothing but scalawag niggers and poor white trash -a-doing that, that I ain't. One nigger went from the plantation to the -north as they called it. - -"When he had done stayed there fer five years then he come back and -hired out to Marse Jim. He looked real lanky, but I never paid that no -mind then. He was older than I was and he always 'lowing, 'John, up in -Winston all the niggers makes five dollar a day; how come you don't go -up there and git rich like I is'. Some of the older ones laugh when he -talk to me like that and he lean to my ear and say real low, 'They's -ig'nant.' - -"One day when the crops done laid by I told Marse Jim, as I allus call -him that, I 'lows, 'Marse, dis fall I gwine north to git rich, but I -sure is gwine to bring you folks something when I comes south again'. - -"So Marse give me my money and I set out for the north. I got to -Winston-Salem and got me a job. But it was that hard a-cleaning and -a-washing all the time. 'Cause I never knowed nothing 'bout no 'baccy -and there wasn't nothing that I could turn off real quick that would -bring me no big money. It got cold and I never had no big oak logs to -burn in my fireplace and I set and shivered till I lay down. Then it -wasn't no kivver like I had at Marse Jim's. Up there they never had -'nough wood to keep no fire all night. - -"Next thing I knowed I was down with the grip and it took all the money -dat I had and then I borrowed some to pay the doctor. So I up and come -back home. It took me a long time to reach Spartanburg and from there I -struck up with the first home niggers I seed since I left in the fall. -That make me more better than I feel since the first day what I 'rive at -Winston. Long afore I 'rive at home, I knowed that I done been a fool to -ever leave the plantation. - -"When I git home all the darkies that glad to offer me the 'glad hand'. -I ax where that nigger what 'ticed me off to the north and they all 'low -that he done took the consumption and died soon after I done gone from -home. I never had no consumption, but it took me long time to git over -the grippe. I goes to old Marse and hires myself out and I never left -him no more till the Lawd took him away. - -"God knows that the slaves fared better than these free niggers is. Us -had wool clothes in the winter and us had fire and plenty wood and -plenty to eat and good houses to keep out the rain and cold. In the -summer us had cool clabber milk and bread and meat and spring water and -now us don't have all them things and us can't keep up no houses like -our log houses was kept. - -"Why, Charlie Petty, Marse's son, wore home made clothes at home jest as -us did. He was dat proud that he 'come editor or something of a -Spartanburg paper." - - - - -Sarah Poindexter - - - *Interview with Sarah Poindexter, 87 years old* - *800 Lady Street (in the rear), Columbia, S.C.* - --_Stiles M. Scruggs, Columbia, S.C._ - -"My name is Sarah Poindexter. I was born in 1850, on de plantation of -Jacob Poindexter, 'bout ten miles beyond Lexington court house. These -old eyes of mine has seen a mighty lot of things here'bouts durin' de -eighty-seven years I been 'round here. - -"De first time I see Columbia, it de powerfulest lot of big wood houses -and muddy streets I ever see in my life. De Poindexter wagon dat carry -my daddy and my mammy and me to de big town, pretty often mire in -mudholes all 'long de big road from de plantation to de court house. Dat -trip was made 'bout 1857, 'cause I was seven years old when I made dat -trip. - -"Since that first trip I has lived in sight of Columbia, 'most all my -life. My daddy, my mammy and me lived on de plantation of Master -Poindexter until 1863. We might a lived there longer, if things had not -been so upset. I sho' recall de excitement in de neighborhood when -roving crowds of niggers come 'long de big road, shoutin' and singin' -dat all niggers am free. Snow was on de ground, but de spirits of de -niggers was sho' plenty hot. - -"De Poindexter plantation was one big place of excitement them days. De -slaves work some, all durin' de war, sometimes I now 'spects it was for -de sake of de missus. All of us loved her, 'cause she was so kind and -good to us. She was cryin' and worryin' all de time 'bout her manfolks, -who was away fightin' damn Yankees, she say. She sho' had plenty of -backbone or spunk, when stragglers show up, they always hungry and -always ready to take what they want to eat, until the missus come on de -scene with her trusty shotgun. It seem like de war last forever to me, -'stead of 'bout five years. To a child, Lordy, how long de years hang -on, and when we get past fifty, oh, how fast de time runs. - -"One day mammy stay in bed, too sick to go to de big house to cook, and -befo' noon, who should come to our cabin but Missus Poindexter herself, -carryin' a basket. She set it down and say to mammy: 'Lawzy Sadie, I not -leave you here to starve; then she uncover de basket and set out a big -plate of chicken and dumplin', hot biscuits, coffee, and a lot of other -good things. - -"When she gone, mammy eat some and give me some, and mammy git up next -mornin' and say: 'Sis, my white folks' missus am so good and kind, I am -goin' to work for her today, best I can'. She went but she wasn't good -well yet. Missus Poindexter many times fetch me a piece of candy or -somethin' when she go to town and back. - -"No, I never see Columbia burn in 1865, but we reckon that it was -burnin' that night in February, 1865, 'cause we smell it and de whole -east look lak some extra light is shinin' and pretty soon, some folks -come ridin' by and tell us the whole city in flames. De next time I see -it, I guess there wasn't fifty houses standin'. Chimneys standin' -'round, is about all there was where most of de city was standin' befo'. - -"My daddy was killed down 'bout Aiken, shortly after 1865. Me and mammy -come to Columbia and live in a cabin in de alley back of Senate Street, -where mammy take in washin' and cook for some white folks, who know her; -I helped her. She die in 1868, and I goes 'way with four other nigger -gals to Durham to work in a tobacco factory. Both white and nigger women -work there, but de nigger women do most of de hard work, strippin' de -leaves, stemmin' them, and placin' them to dry. White women finish them -for de trade. - -"In 1870 when I comes back to Columbia de city am acomin' back. Big -buildin's up along de streets, but most of them was made of wood. Soon -after that I gets work in a hotel, but Columbia at that time was not so -big and Durham was smaller still, although Durham had more brick houses. -I was happier on de Poindexter plantation and had fewer things to worry -'bout than when I was ascratchin' 'round for myself. - -"You ask has I been married? Yes, I marry a dandy lookin' young man, -'bout my own age, 'bout a year after I comes back to Columbia. His name, -so he say, is Sam Allen. He make fun of some other niggers who work at -one thing or another to live. One day he come to where I work and say he -bound to raise ten dollars. I hands him de cash, and he gives me a good -kiss right there befo' de folks, but I never see him again. I hear, -after he gone, that he win some more money at a gamblin' place on -Assembly street, and reckon he decided to blow 'way, while blowin' was -good. - -"De folks who know me always call me Sarah Poindexter and I got it -honestly, like other honest slaves who never know what their real name -was, and so I keeps it to the end of the road. - -"I am now livin' with a distant relative and firmly trustin' in Jesus, -as I have done for more than fifty years, that he will keep me to the -end of the trail here and greet me when I pass on 'way up Yonder'." - - - - -Sam Polite - - - *Interview with Sam Polite, age 93* - --_Mrs. Chlotilde R. Martin, Beaufort County_ - -"W'en gun shoot on Bay Pint (Bay Point) for freedom, I been sebenteen -year old wuking slabe. I born on B. Fripp Plantation on St. Helena -Island. My fadder been Sam Polite and my mudder been Mol Polite. My -fadder b'long to Mister Marion Fripp and my mudder b'long to Mister Old -B. Fripp. I don't know how mucher land, neider how much slabe he hab, -but he hab two big plantation, and many slabe--more'n a hundred slabe. - -"Slabe lib on Street--two row ob house wid two room to de house. I hab -t'ree sister name, Silvy Polite, Rose Polite and Minda Polite. Hab -brudder, too, but he die. - -"My fadder and mudder ain't marry. Slabe don't marry--dey jest lib -togedder. All slabe hab for stay on plantation in day time but w'en wuk -done, kin wisit wife on odder plantation. Hab pass, so Patrol won't git -um. - -"W'en I been leetle boy, I play en Street--shoot marble play aa'my and -sech t'ing. W'en hawn blow and mawning star rise, slabe' hab for git up -and cook. W'en day clean, dey gone to field. 'Ooman too old for wuk in -field hab for stay on Street and mind baby. Old mens follow cow. Chillen -don't wuk in field 'till twelve or t'irteen year old. You carry dinner -to field in your can and leabe um at de heading (end of row). W'en you -feel hongry, you eat. Ebery slabe hab tas' (task) to do. Sometime one -task (quarter acre), sometime two tas', and sometime t'ree. You haf for -wuk 'til tas' t'ru (through). W'en cotton done mek, you hab odder tas'. -Haffa cut cord ob maash (marsh) grass maybe. Tas' ob maash been eight -feet long and four feet high. Den sometime you haffa (have to) roll cord -ob mud in cowpen. 'Ooman haffa rake leaf from wood into cowpen. (This -was used for fertilizer.) - -"W'en you knock off wuk, you kin wuk on your land. Maybe you might hab -two or t'ree tas' ob land 'round your cabin what Maussa gib you for -plant. You kin hab chicken, maybe hawg. You kin sell aig (egg) and -chicken to store and Maussa will buy your hawg. In dat way slabe kin hab -money for buy t'ing lak fish and w'atebber he want. We don't git much -fish in slabery 'cause we nebber hab boat. But sometime you kin t'row -out net en ketch shrimp. You kin also ketch 'possum and raccoon wid your -dawg. - -"On Sattidy night ebery slabe dat wuks gits peck ob corn and pea, and -sometime meat and clabber. You nebber see any sugar neider coffee in -slabery. You has straw in your mattress but dey gib you blanket. Ebery -year in Christmas month you gits four or eider fibe yaa'd cloth 'cording -to how you is. Out ob dat, you haffa mek your clote (clothes). You wears -dat same clote till de next year. You wears hit winter en summer, Sunday -en ebery day. You don't git no coat, but dey gib you shoe. In slabery, -you don't know nutting 'bout sheets for your bed. Us nebber know nutting -'bout Santa Claus 'till Freedom, but on Christmas Maussa gib you meat -and syrup and maybe t'ree day widout wuk. Slabe wuk 'till daa'k on -Sattidy jest lak any odder day--I still does wuk 'till daa'k on Sattidy. -But on Sunday slabe don't wuk. On Fourth ob July, slabe wuk 'till twelbe -o'clock and den knocks off. On Sunday slabe kin wisit back and fort' -(forth) on de plantations. - -"Slabe don't do mucher frolic. W'en 'ooman hab baby he hab mid-wife for -nine day and sometime don't haffa wuk for month w'en baby born, Missis -send clote (clothes) from Big House. W'en nigger sick, Maussa sen' -doctor. If you been berry sick, doctor gib you calomus (calomel) or -castor oil. Sometime he gib you Dead-Shot for worms, or Puke (powder) to -mek you heave. If I jest hab a pain in muh stummick, my mudder gib me -Juse-e-moke w'at he git outen de wood." (I was unable to get any -definite idea of what 'Dead-Shot', 'Puke' or 'Juse-e-moke' were.) - -"If slabe don't do tas', de git licking wid lash on naked back. Driver -nigger gib licking, but Maussa 'most always been dere. Sometime maybe -nigger steal hawg or run 'way to de wood, den he git licking too. Can't -be no trouble 'tween white folks and nigger in slabery time for dey do -as dey choose wid you. But Maussa good to slabe If dey done day's tas' -and don't be up to no meanness. Missis don't hab nutting to do wid -nigger. - -"In slabery, nigger go to white folks chu'ch. Slabe don't know nutting -'bout baptizing. W'en nigger dead, you can't knock off wuk for berry um. -You haffa wait 'till night time to put um in de graabe (grave). You -berry um by de light ob torch. Old Man Tony Ford bin de man w'at 'tend -to funerals. Dey wasn't no nigger preacher on de plantation but dey been -people to hold praise (prayers). - -"I nebber see nigger in chain, but I shum (see them) in stock. I see -plenty nigger sell on banjo table. Dey put you up on flatform (platform) -en dey buy you. I see my uncle sell he brung one hundred dollar. 'Ooman -don't sell widout he chillen. - -"Mister Johnnie Fripp been my n'oung Maussa. W'en he chillen git marry, -Old Maussa diwide de nigger. He gib Maussa Johnnie t'irty slabe and I -been one ob dem. Maussa buy plantation on de Main (mainland). He build -big house. He hab four boy and two gal. He hab five hundred acre. He -ain't hab no oberseer, jest driver. We don't know no poor white trash on -de Main, neider on St. Helena Islant. - -"I wuk in field on Maussa Johnnie Fripp plantation. Sometime we sing -w'en us wuk. One song we sing been go lak dis: - - Go way, Ole Man - Go way, Ole Man - W'ere you bin all day - If you treat me good - I'll stay 'till de Judgment day, - But if you treat me bad, - I'll sho' to run away. - -"W'en war come, Missis tek me and two more niggers, put we and chillen -in two wagon and go to Baarnwell (Barnwell). My mudder been one ob de -nigger. We stay in Baarnwell all enduring (during) de war. My fadder he -been wid de Rebel--been wid Mr. Marion Chaplin. W'en Freedom come, -Missis didn't say nutting, she jest cry. But she gib we uh wagon and we -press (stole) a horse and us come back to St. Helena Islant. It tek -t'ree day to git home. W'en we git home, we fine de rest ob de nigger -yere been hab Freedom four year befo' we! I wuk for uh nigger name Peter -White. Muh fadder come back, and buy 20 acre ob land and we all lib -togedder. I gone to school one or two year, but I ain't larn (learn) -much. Four year after war, I buy fifteen acre ob land. Dat was dis yere -same place w'ere I libs now. After w'ile I goes to wuk in rock -(phosphate mines). I hears 'bout Ku Klux. Dey been bad people. Dey will -kill you. Been marry to four wife. Dis yere last one, he been born in -slabery too, but he don't 'members much 'bout um. He been leetle gal so -high jest big 'nuf for open gate for white folks. I hab t'ree chillen, -two libbing. I hear tell my boy William been marry to a w'ite 'ooman in -England and hab t'ree chillen. My gal Alice lib in New Yawk. Sometime -she send me money. I hab two great-gran. - -"Abraham Lincoln? He de one w'at gib we liberty for wuk for we se'f. He -come to Beaufort 'fore de war. He come as uh rail-splitter and spy -'round. He gone back w'ere he come from and say: 'You eider got to gib -dese nigger t'ree day for deyse'f or dere will be blood-shed.' And he -been right. I would be glad for shum (see him) but I nebber shum. - -"I don't know nutting 'bout dat genman Mister Davis, neider Mister -Washington--you say he been a nigger, too? - -"Wat I t'ink 'bout slabery? I t'ink it been good t'ing. It larn nigger -to wuk. If it ain't mek nigger wuk, he wouldn't do nutting but tief -(thief). You don't find nigger wuk for slabery running 'round looking -for ready money--dat been all dese yere n'oung nigger want. Me--I -slabing for self right now. I don't want nobody for mek me wuk, but -slabery larn me for wuk. I hab wuk five hundred head ob man in rock and -today ain't one can come to me and say: 'Sam Polite, you beat me out ob -one penny.' - -"Slabery done uh good t'ing for me, 'cause if he ain't larn me to wuk, -today I wouldn't know how to wuk." - - - - -William Pratt - - - *Interview with William Pratt (77)* - *Newberry, S.C. RFD* - --_G.L. Summer, Newberry, S.C._ - -"I live with my children on a farm in Newberry County. I have a good -place to live and plenty to eat. I work on the farm. I moved from -Chester County in the year 1898, the year the Spanish-American War -started. - -"I was born in Chester County in April 1860. My parents belonged to the -Pratts, but my mother belonged to the Kennedys before she married. They -went to Robert K. Kennedy and was with him as his slaves. He was a good -man but his wife was mean. She sure could 'cuss out slaves if they made -her mad. She whipped me once when I was a small boy. I couldn't do much -with her. My daddy's family belonged to the Pratts who lived seven miles -from Chester. They was good folks to slaves. They always had lots to eat -from their big garden. The white folks went hunting, and it was said -some wild turkeys was around Price's Mountain, about nine miles south of -Chester. - -"We got up before day and went to work and worked till sundown. My mammy -cooked for the family; and one day the mistress got mad at her and hit -her on the head with a coffee paddle. We worked all day on Saturdays but -didn't work on Sundays. On Christmas we had a holliday and had frolics -and big eats. - -"The patrollers once caught my daddy out at night without a pass and -whipped him a little, just for mischief. He was always allowed to go -about where he wanted to go without a pass, but next time he asked Miss -Polly for a paper to take out with him. - -"After the war the Ku Klux didn't bother us but the Red Shirts come and -wanted us to join them, that is they wanted my brother to join. He -wouldn't join though. My brother-in-law joined and wore one of the -shirts with them. He wanted Wade Hampton elected as he believed it was -best for us. He was a Democrat and said they all ought to wear them. -Once some mischief was played on a Negro who was a Republican and voted -for Chamberlain. He was given a card and told to go to a certain -merchant and show the card to him, that the merchant was a Chamberlain -man and would give him supplies. He showed the card to the merchant who -got mad and told the Negro if he didn't get out of his store he would -kill him. - -"Some of the old folks sometimes saw ghosts. A negro went to church one -night on a horse, and somebody slipped up behind and spurred the horse. -The Negro went home as fast as he could, saying that he had seen a -ghost. - -"When Freedom come, Old Man Kennedy took it well and said we was all -free, but his wife just cursed us and said, 'Damn you, you are free -now'. Old Marse Kennedy had some sons killed in the war. James and -Douglas Kennedy lived in Chester County after the war. - -"We used to dance jigs by ourself, and we danced the 'hack-back', -skipping backwards and forwards facing each other. When one danced a jig -he would sing, 'Juber this, Juber that, Juber kills a yellow cat'. My -brother used to sing a cotton picking song: 'My mammy got meat skin laid -away; grease my belly three times a day'. - -"We was Baptist and baptized by immersion. An old Baptist song that was -sung at the baptism was: 'Trouble water today, trouble water today, -trouble water today. He will save you, He will save you; come to Jesus -today, come to Jesus today, come to Jesus today. He will save you, He -will save you, just now.' - -"An old wood-chopping song which is yet sung by negroes is: - - Come on baby, let us go down; - Come on baby, let us go down; - Ten-pounder hammer stove my head; - 'nough to kill my body dead. - -"I married Rosy Kennedy, a daughter of Mose Kennedy, and had five -children, but only two are now living. I have several grandchildren -living in Chester County. I worked first on the Kennedy place. Their -daughter, Miss Julie, was good to us. She married Robert Orr of Chester. -She didn't have many beaux before because her mother was so mean nobody -wanted to come around her. Miss Julie helped at my wedding. When my wife -wasn't able to get breakfast so I could go to work, Miss Julie would -tell me to come to her house and eat. That was after her mother died. - -"I think Abraham Lincoln didn't do just right, 'cause he threw all the -negroes on the world without any way of getting along. They was -helpless. He ought to have done it gradually and give them a chance to -get on their own. I think Booker Washington is a great man and has done -great work, because he says negroes must have education and learn to -work, too, and not sit down and expect more because he is educated. - -"I joined the church because I believe there is a 'here-after', and I -wanted to learn more about Jesus and get His forgiveness for what I had -done wrong. We need Him always, because St. Matthews says the last state -of man is worse than the first." - - - - -Henry Pristell - - - *Interview with Henry Pristell, 83 year old* - *Estill, S.C.* - --_Phoebe Faucette, Hampton County_ - -'Uncle Henry' Pristell and his wife, Lucina, live in the town of Estill -in the usual type of small negro cabin. 'Uncle Henry' has a record of -his age that shows that he is eighty-three years old but he is so well -preserved that it is hard to believe. Although he is very bald, and his -closely cut hair is nearly white, he gets about so easily and talks with -such vigor he seems much younger. - -"Oh, yes ma'am, I kin tell you 'bout de war times. I seen lots of dat, -ma'am. I seen lots: I couldn't tell you all 'bout it--it been so -distressful--but I kin tell some. When de Yankees come, at first sight -of dem dey was string right 'long as far back as Luray. And string out -crossways all over everywhere. Dey was jes' as thick together as de -panels in dis fence. Dey was thousands of 'em! It was in de afternoon, -an' dey was over everywhere--over de woods, over de fields, an' through -de swamps, thick as dem weeds out dere! Dey didn't leave anything! Dey -burn de fences down, shoot de cows, de hogs, de turkeys an' ducks an -geese, de chickens an' everything. Dey didn't stay no time--didn't spend -de night--jes' pass through. I see some of 'em set a fence afire an' -stop dere an' cook. Dere was rail fences of fat pinewood in dem days. - -"For de plantation use, dey didn't burn none of de colored folks' houses -nor de old boss' house. An' as for anybody being injured when dey pass -through I didn't see none of dat. I must speak de truth, ma'am I didn't -see anything out of the way. Jes' burn things an' take things to eat. -Dere was Mr. Thomas' place, an' Mr. David Horton's place, den Mr. -Wallace' place. Dey didn't burn any of 'em. I was on de Wallace place. -My old boss been Mr. Sam Wallace. De house been up dere till 'bout -thirty year ago. Dat been a fine place. Oh, yes ma'am. De house was -built up high off de ground--as high as de top of dat room dere. I don't -know why dey didn't burn de house. Now dat's all I kin tell you 'bout -dat. In all other little doings, I didn't so much as realize it 'cause -dey been little scattering doings. I do remember dat dere was a camp at -Lawtonville for a while. Dey built a place for de prisoners, of mud. Dey -dug a pit down in de ground 'bout three feet deep, den made de walls of -mud. I'm satisfied 'bout dat. Dey didn't stay long. It was de Southern -soldiers had de camp. - -"After de war, we stay dere on de place. Stay dere for years. My father -been Abram Pristell, my mother Lucy Pristell. 'Fore de war, I been jes' -a little boy. Didn't have no special work to do. I penetrates 'round de -yard dere by de kitchen. My mother would cook for de folks. Penetrate -several days an' several night. De kitchen was off from de house. It had -a big fireplace in it. Didn't have no stove. I'll be honest wid you. I'm -satisfied 'bout dat! Had a loom in it an' a spinnin' wheel. I seen dem a -many a time spinnin' an' weavin'. Oh, yes ma'am, I'm satisfied 'bout -dat! An' dey had plenty of good things to eat. Oh, dey was well secured. -You'll never see dat no more--not on dis side! But dey had plenty of -people to feed an' to take care of. 'Course we don't want dose times no -more, 'cause while some of de boss been good to 'em some of 'em been -bad. What little time we got here we wants to take it easy an' quiet." - - - - -Junius Quattlebaum - - - *Interview with Junius Quattlebaum, 84 years old* - --_Henry Grant, Columbia, S.C._ - -Junius Quattlebaum lives with his grandson, a short distance south of -the Guignard Brick Factory, in the town of New Brookland, S.C. He is -partially capable of self-support from what work and produce he is able -to pick up around the City Market in Columbia. - -"Well, sir, you want to talk to me 'bout them good old days back yonder -in slavery time, does you? I call them good old days, 'cause I has never -had as much since. I has worked harder since de war betwixt de North and -de South than I ever worked under my marster and missus. I was just a -small boy while de war was gwine on, but I was big 'nough to see and -know what went on dere on de plantation all right. - -"I was born on Marster Jim Quattlebaum's plantation over dere in Saluda -County. He had 'bout sixty-five slaves in all, countin' de chillun. My -marster wouldn't have no overseer, 'cause he say overseers would whip -his niggers and he didn't 'low nobody, white or black, to do dat. If his -niggers had to be whipped, he was gwine to do dat hisself and then they -wouldn't be hurt much. Marster lak to see his slaves happy and singin' -'bout de place. If he ever heard any of them quarrelin' wid each other, -he would holler at them and say: 'Sing! Us ain't got no time to fuss on -dis place.' - -"Marster lak he dram, 'specially in de fall of de year when it fust git -cool. Us used to have big corn shuckin's on de plantation at night, -'long 'bout de fust of November of every year. All de corn was hauled -from de fields and put in two or three big piles in de barnyard and de -slaves would git 'round them, sing and shuck de corn. De slave women -would hang buckets of raw tar afire on staves drove in de ground 'round -de crowd, to give light. Them was sho' happy times. - -"Marster would give all de grown slaves a dram or two of pure apple -brandy, on them corn shuckin' nights, and take several smiles (drinks) -hisself. I 'members so well, one of them nights, dat marster come to de -barnyard, where us was all lit up, a singin' fit to kill hisself. Us was -s'prised to see marster settin' down wid us niggers and shuckin' corn as -fas' as us was. After a spell, him stood up and took 'nother smile, then -say: 'Pass de jug 'round and let's all take a drink.' Wid dat, one of de -niggers grab de jug of liquor and passed it 'round to all de shuckers. -Then marster say: 'Everybody sing.' Some of de niggers 'quire: 'What you -gwine to sing?' He say:--'Sing dis song: Pass 'round de bottle and we'll -all take a drink.' Some of them in de crowd 'jected to dat song, 'cause -they had 'nough liquor in them to 'ject to anything. Marster kinda -scratch he head and say: 'Well, let me git a pole and you all is gwine -to sing.' And singin' dere was, as sho' as you's born. Them niggers -'round de corn piles dat night h'isted dat song right now; dere was no -waitin' for de pole or nothin' else. They wanted to sing, bad. - -"De next mornin', after dis night I's talkin' 'bout, Miss Martha, our -good missus come 'round to de slave houses and 'quire how they all felt. -She say: 'You all can rest today and do what you want to do, 'cause -Marster Jim ain't feelin' so well dis mornin'.' She knowed what was -gwine on at de corn shuckin' de night befo' but she ain't said nothin' -'bout it. Mammy said many times dat de missus didn't lak dat whiskey -drinkin' business in nobody. She was a pure and 'ligious woman if dere -ever was one in dis world. Dere ain't no wonder dat de marster was -foolish 'bout her. Mammy say de onliest way for both white and black to -keep from lovin' Miss Martha, was to git away from her and not be so you -could see her. - -"Dis is de way our marsters treated deir slaves. I don't care what de -world does write and say 'bout slave owners; I knows dis. Us slaves dat -b'long on marster's plantation had de best folks to live and work wid I -has ever seen or knowed. Dere is no sich kindness dese days betwixt de -boss and them dat does de work. All de slaves worked pretty hard -sometimes but never too hard. They worked wid light and happy hearts, -'cause they knowed dat marster would take good care of them; give them a -plenty of good vittles, warm clothes, and warm houses to sleep in, when -de cold weather come. They sho' had nothin' to worry 'bout and no -overseer to drive them to work, lak some slaves on other plantations -had. Easy livin' is 'bout half of life to white folks but it is all of -life to most niggers. It sho' is. - -"No, sir, de patarollers (patrollers) didn't bother none of marster's -slaves. I has done told you he wouldn't let nobody, white or black, whip -his niggers, 'cause he thought too much of them and de work they could -do on de plantation when they was well and healthy. Yes, sir, I -'members, lak yistiddy, when Columbia was burned by de Yankees in 1865. -All dat happened in de month of February, I thinks. Some of de niggers -on de plantation said they seen de smoke from dat big fire, but I has my -doubts 'bout de truth of dat. - -"When Christmas come, all de slaves on de plantation had three days give -to them, to rest and enjoy themselves. Missus and de two little misses -fixed up a big Christmas tree. It was a big holly bush wid red berries -all over it. It sho' was a picture of beautifulness. I can see missus so -plain now, on Christmas mornin', a flirtin' 'round de Christmas trees, -commandin' de little misses to put de names of each slave on a package -and hang it on de tree for them. She was always pleased, smilin' and -happy, 'cause she knowed dat she was doin' somethin' dat would make -somebody else happy. She tried as hard to make de slaves happy as she -did to make her own white friends happy, it seem lak to me. Close to de -tree was a basket and in dat basket was put in a bag of candy, apples, -raisins and nuts for all de chillun. Nobody was left out. - -"Christmas mornin', marster would call all de slaves to come to de -Christmas tree. He made all de chillun set down close to de tree and de -grown slaves jined hands and make a circle 'round all. Then marster and -missus would give de chillun deir gifts, fust, then they would take -presents from de tree and call one slave at a time to step out and git -deirs. After all de presents was give out, missus would stand in de -middle of de ring and raise her hand and bow her head in silent thanks -to God. All de slaves done lak her done. After all dis, everybbdy was -happy, singin', and laughin' all over de place. Go 'way from here, white -man! Don't tell me dat wasn't de next step to heaven to de slaves on our -plantation. I sees and dreams 'bout them good old times, back yonder, to -dis day." - - - - -Transcriber's Note - - -Original spelling has been maintained; e.g. "_stob_--a short straight -piece of wood, such as a stake" (American Heritage Dictionary).--The -Works Progress Administration was renamed during 1939 as the Work -Projects Administration (WPA). - - - - - -*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK SLAVE NARRATIVES: A FOLK HISTORY -OF SLAVERY IN THE UNITED STATES FROM INTERVIEWS WITH FORMER SLAVES: -VOLUME XIV, SOUTH CAROLINA NARRATIVES, PART 3 *** - - - - -A Word from Project Gutenberg - - -We will update this book if we find any errors. - -This book can be found under: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36022 - -Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no one -owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation (and -you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without permission -and without paying copyright royalties. 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