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diff --git a/16246.txt b/16246.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..1e4d6b0 --- /dev/null +++ b/16246.txt @@ -0,0 +1,1653 @@ +The Project Gutenberg EBook of A Very Pleasaunt & Fruitful Diologe Called +the Epicure, by Desiderius Erasmus + +This eBook is for the use of anyone anywhere at no cost and with +almost no restrictions whatsoever. You may copy it, give it away or +re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included +with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org + + +Title: A Very Pleasaunt & Fruitful Diologe Called the Epicure + +Author: Desiderius Erasmus + +Release Date: July 8, 2005 [EBook #16246] + +Language: English + +Character set encoding: ASCII + +*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK A VERY PLEASAUNT & FRUITFUL *** + + + + +Produced by David Starner, Louise Hope and the Online +Distributed Proofreading Team at https://www.pgdp.net. + + + + + +[Transcriber's note: + +The printed text marks the first few leaves of each 16-page +signature: ||A.i.||, ||A.ii.||... Other page breaks are marked in +this e-text with double lines || + +A few apparent typographic errors were corrected and are listed at +the end of the text. Other irregularities are noted but were left +unchanged. All other spelling, capitalization and punctuation are +as in the original.] + + * * * * * + * * * * + * * * * * + + + A VE- + ry pleasaunt & + fruitful Dio- + loge called the + *Epicure*, + made by that fa- + mous clerke Eras + mus of Rotero- + dame, newly + translated. + 1545. + + + * * * * * + + _S. Paule to the Ephesians_ + + You that haue professed Christ, + suffre not your selues to be deceyued + vvith false doctrine, nor vaine + and noughtie talkyng, but herken + vnto all Godly thynges, and + especially too the doctryne + of the Gospell. + + +||A.ii.|| + + THE HABOVN- + daunt mercie and grace of our + heauenly father Iesu Christ, + maye alwaies strengthen + and defende oure noble + & vertuous Prynce Ed- + ward too the mainte- + naunce of the liue- + ly woord of + God. + + +Whereas manye histories of olde & auncient antiquitie, +and also al godly & Christia writers most playnely conset +together, and agree in this, that dignitie, riches, kinred, +worldly pompe, and renoume, doo neither make men better, ne +yet happiar, contrarie too the blynde & fonde iudgement of +the most part of menne: but by the power and strength of the +mynde, that is, learnyng, wysedome, || and vertue, all menne +are hyghly enriched, ornated, & most purely beutified, for +these bee thinges bothe notable, eternall, and verye +familiar betwene the heauenly father & vs. It is therefore +euidente (most excellent Prince) that the fittest ornametes +for your graces tender age, bee, eruditio and vertue. +Wherunto you are bothe so ernestly addicte and therin so +woderfully doo preuaile, that I nede not too exhorte & +exstimulate your grace vnto the study thereof. For that God +him self hath wrought, and fourmed your mynde so apt and +desirous too attayne and diligetly too seeke for al godly +doctrine, that eue now you doo shewe in all youre saiynges +and dooinges suche a wonderfull pleasautes much lyke vnto +a certayne swete musike or harmonie, that any honest hart +exceadinglye woulde reioyce in the sight therof. Verely, +your grace thinketh plainly all time lost, that is not +bestowed vpon learnyng, which is a verie rare thyng in anye +childe, and rarest of all in a Prince. Thus youre noblenes, +rather desireth vertue and ||A.iii.|| learning the most +surest and excellent treasures, which farre surmounte all +worldly ryches, then anye vanities or trifles. Nowe youre +grace prepareth for the holsome and pleasaunt foode of +the mynde. Now you seke for that whiche you shal fynd +most surest helper and faythfulst councellour in all your +affaires. Now your magnificet mynde studieth that, whiche +all Englyshe menne with meke and humile heartes shuld desire +GOD to endue your grace with all. Now with diligent labour +you searche for a thyng, as one most myndeful of this +saiyng: Happy is that realme that hath a lerned Prince. Nowe +you trauaile for that, whiche conquereth, and kepeth doune +all greuous tourmentes & outragious affections of the mynde, +too the furderaunce of good liuyng, and maintenauce of +vertue, I meane holsome erudition and learnyng. Many +Heathen Princes forsoth, are highly magnified with most +ample prayses, which gaue them selues too the study of +Philosophie, or knowledge of tongues, for their owne +commoditie, and || especially for the weale of their +subiectes. Who is nowe more celebrated and worthelier +extolled then Mithridates? that noble kyng of Pont and +Bithinia, which, (as Aulus Gellius writeth) vnderstoode so +perfitly the languages of .xxii. sondrye countries that were +vnder his dominio, that he neuer vsed any interpretour too +answer his subiectes, but spake their laguages so finelye, +as thoughe he had been of the same coutrie. Ageyn, that +honorable manne Quintus Ennius saied: that he had .iii. +heartes, because he coulde speake Greke, Italian, and Latin. +Yea, and breuely, the most famaus writers, as well the +Heathen, as the Christien, with an vniuersall consent, +playnly affirme: Whan thei had weied the nature and condicio +of the purest thinges vnder heauen, thei sawe nothyng faire, +or of any pryce, or that ought too be accopted ours, but +onely vertue and learning. Euen now too acknowledge that +same, it is yeoue you from aboue, for your grace delecteth +in nothyng more then too bee occupied in the holye Byble: +wherin, ||A.iiii.|| you beginne too sauer & smelle furth +the treasure of wisedome, knowledge and fulnes of the deuyne +power, that is a studie most conuenient for euery Christien +Prince, that kynd of studye cannot haue sufficient laude +and commendation. Whose Princely heart forsoth, is raueshed +on suche a godlie and vertuous studie, it can neuer haue +condigne and worthie praises, but deserueth alwaies too bee +had in great price, estimation, and honour. Who dooeth not +know? that Prince which is yeouen vnto the scriptures of God +and with a stoute stomake and valiat heart, both searcheth +furth and also defendeth ye true doctrine of the Gospell, +too bee inrolled in the assemble of Christ. Who dooeth not +see? that Prince too bee moost surelye armed, which carieth +in his heart the swerd of ye spirit, which is the blessed +woord of God. Who is ignoraunt? that euer lastyng lyfe +consisteth in the knoweledge of God. What Prince woulde not +studie to maintaine that, which is written for the health, +and saluation of all menne weiyuge with himselfe || that a +Prince can not deserue, neither by conquest, ciuel policie, +nor yet by anye other meane vnder heauen, thys name high or +honorable, so wourthely as by the setting forward of Goddes +woorde. What young Prince humily defendyng doune intoo him +selfe and callyng to memory his bounden dutie woulde not +with a glad hearte and a chearfull mynde, gredelye desyre +too knowe, enlarge, and amplifie the glory and maiestie +of hys derely beloued father? Your grace (forsoth) hath +professed God too bee your father: Blessed are you then if +you obey vnto hys word, and walke in his waies. Blessed are +you, yf you supporte suche as preache the Gospell. Blessed +are you, yf your mind bee full furnished with the testament +of Christ, and shew your selfe too bee the most cruel +too and enemy agaynst ypocrisie, supersticion, and all +papistical phantasies, wherwith the true religion of God +hathe been dusked and defaced these many yeres Blessed are +you, if you reade it daye & nighte, that your grace maye +knowe what GOD dooeth forbyd you, and ||A.v.|| euer submit +your selfe therunto with seruiceable lowlines chiefly +desiring to florysh and decke your mynd with godly +knowledge. And most blessed are you, if you apply your +self vnto al good workes, & plant surely in your heart the +scriptures of Christ, If you thus doo, nether the power of +any papistical realme, nor yet of hel can preuaile at any +time against your grace. Nowe therfore, with humile hearte, +faithfully receiue the swete promises of the Gospel. If +you kepe the woordes of the Lorde and cleaue fast vnto +them: there is promised you the kingdome of heauen: You +are promised a weale publick most riche and welthy You are +promised too bee deliuered from the deceiptes of all youre +priuie enemyes. You are promised also, too conquere great +and mightie nations. Agayne, let your grace bee most fully +perswaded in this, that ther was neuer Kyng nor Prince, that +prospered whiche tooke parte against Goddes woord, and that +the greatest abhomination that can bee, either for Kyng, +Prince, or any other manne, is too || forsake the true woord +of God. O with howe rebukefull woordes & greuous iudgement +thei be condemned, which dispice & set lytle by the holy +Byble & most blessed Testamet of God, wherin there is +contained all the wil & pleasure of our heauely father +toward vs most miserable & ignoraunt wretches Who would not +quake, too beholde the terrible feares & threatenynges of +God ageinst al suche? Who would not lament & gladly helppe +their obstinate blyndenes? Who woulde not weepe? to heare +and reade in how many places, they be openly accursed by the +scriptures of Christ. God him self playnely affirmeth, that +he wyll sodenly consume them with the breath of his anger. +Yea, besides that whoso euer declyneth from the word of +God is accursed in all his doynges, whether he be Kyng, or +Prynce, riche, or poore, or of what estate soeuer he bee. +This fearfull saiyng (most excellent Prynce) shulde moue all +men to take hede vnto their duties and to praie that gods +word maie take place emogist vs. O that al men would +||fantasie the scriptures of God, and saye with the vertuous +man Iob. Wee will not bee ageynst the woordes of the holy +one. Truth it is, God taketh diligent care too haue vs al +know his woord. Woulde God therfore, that all wee were now +willing to haue the syncere woorde of God & all holsom +doctrine too go forward. O that all we would consent +togither in the Gospell, brotherly admonishyng, and +secretelye prouokyng one an other too true religion +& vertue. O that no man would sow emongist the people +pernitious doctryne, but with all lowly diligece and Godlye +monition euer prouoke, tempt, and stere them, tyll their +heartes were remoued fro their olde dautyng dreames and +supersticio, which haue been long grafted in them thorow +popyshe doctrine. By this meane wee shuld euer haue concorde +emongist vs, whiche in all thynges is necessary, but most +nedefull and expedient in Gods holi woord. Now truely the +godlyest thynge that can bee deuysed, for any christian +realme, is to haue emongist them one maner and || fourme +of doctryne, & too trace trueli the steppes of God and +neuer to seeke any other bywayes. Who hath not redde in ye +scriptures? but that realme is endued with godly ornamentes +& riches, where all men prospere, go for ward and florishe +in gods woord, delectyng day and night in the swete +cosolations of the holy testament. By this way we shuld +especially set forth the glory of God, and of our sauiour +Iesu Christ, if we would reuerently shew one an other that +whiche God hath taught vs. Yea & in this doyng all men +shulde well perceaue that we were the true disciples of +Christ, being knitte and coupled fast together in mynde +and iudgement, preachyng God with one mouth and also with +one assent euer promotyng his gloryous testament. O the +good happe and grace of that king or prynce emongist whose +subiectes there is such an hole consent and iudgement in the +woord of God, for that most assuredly byndeth & adiuigneth +ye hartes of al subiectes too their kyng. The strength of +the Gospell is euen suche in this puincte, || that there was +neuer man, which did humily receaue it, that would murmour +ageynst his Prince. It teacheth how wyllyngly all men shulde +obey their kyng. It sheweth verye lyuely and most apertly +vnto euery man his ful dutie. It euer prouoketh vs from all +wicked, cursed, and most obstinate disobedience. It euer +instructeth men too shewe them selues most lowly, humile, +and obesaunt toward their Prynce. Whosoeuer hath tasted +fully therof, will declare hym selfe in al thynges, too +bee a faithful subiect. Furthermore, it is clearer then the +light (most vertuous prince) that it woulde make muche for +the weale of this noble realme, yf all me with heart and +mynde, would nowe as well expulse the pernitious and +deuelyshe doctryne af that Romishe bishop, as his name is +blotted i bookes. There is none so ignoraunt, but he knoweth +that, thorough hym we were brought into a woderful blindnes, +thorough hym we did sauer of nothyng, but of stynkyng +Ydolatry, through hym we were deceiued with || false +Ypocrisie. Now let euery blind stiffe hearted, and obstinate +creature compare his abhomination with the gospell, and +if he be not shameles, he will abashe to smell of his +papistrie, and to walow still in ignoraunce, vn lest he bee +priuely confederate and in heart consent with the detestable +felowship of al wicked papistes. Now would God all suche men +would reduce ageyn their heartes vnto ye gospell of Christ, +would god they would bee prouoked by some meane to desire +knowledge. O that god woulde yeoue them a couragious mynde +too reade the gospel, there they shal sone fynde all the +venoume of the romishe sort most playnely detected. Forsoth +wee see dayly, that lacke of knowledge of the gospel maketh +some busserdes runne hedlong on all rockes, daungers, & +extreme perilles: yea, and beside that, olde popysh doctryne +whiche lyeth folded vp & locked faste in their heartes, +doeth so sore blynd the that they haue neither fauour ne +affectio too printe in their myndes, the expressed coucels, +admonitions, and || preceptes of the holy scripture, but +too slepe stil in their owne conceites, dreames, & fonde +phansies. Wherfore let your dignitie note well this, that +all those whiche bee not wyllyng that gods woord should bee +knowen, and that blyndenes should be clean expulsed from +all men, whiche be baptised in ye blessed bludde of Christ, +bewray themselues playne papistes: for in very deede that +most deceatful wolfe and graund maister papist with his +totiens quotiens, and a pena et culpa blesseth all suche +as will bee blynde stil, maintaine his pope, drinke of +his cuppe of fornication, trust in his pardounes, liue +in popery, ypocrisie, and danable ydolatrie, shut vp the +kingdome of heauen, & neuer regarde the gospel. Cotrarie too +this, christ bi his holy Prophete calleth al those blessed +that seke for his testimonies, al those his elect & chose +childre, which turne fro synne, ypocrisie, & ydolatrie, all +those goddes that heare his word, yea, & breuely, al those +which set it forward honorable me. & in this puincte your +grace shoulde euer beare in mynde, || that noble and +vertuous kyng Hezekiah, whiche shewed hymselfe very +honorable in settig forward ye woord of God, and therby +gotte hym glory and fame immortall, so that nowe he is most +highly praysed amongtst all men. Ageyn his subiectes dyd +obey his commaundement feynedly with Ypocrisie, but in their +heartes they abhorred gods woord. O the miserie that dyd +afterwarde sodeinly ensue vpon them, O the wonderfull +wrath of God that was poured vpon them, O their great and +obstinate blindnes whiche caused them most greuously too +be scourged: Their plage was no lesse then too bee vtterly +spoyled of their enemies, Their plage was no lesse then to +eate one an other: Yea, their plage was no lesse then to +eate their owne sonnes and doughters. This calamitie and +sorow (most noble prynce) happened them because they dyd +not regarde the lawes of God, but tourned too their olde +abhominable Ydolatrie, and lightelye estemed gods holy +woord. Wherfore euen now whosoeuer is an enemie ||B.i.|| to +the holy Bible, that is, neither studiyng it himselfe, nor +willyng that other men shulde knowe it, he can in no wyse be +a right christian man: although he fast, pray, doo almes, +& all the good workes vnder heauen. And he that hath suche a +mynde, is ye most cursed and cruel enemie too god, a playne +sower of sedition, and a deuelishe disquieter of all godly +men. For truly those that reade the gospel of Christ, and +labour diligetly therin: doo fynde wonderfull rest & +quietnes, from all woofull miserie, perturbatio, and +vanities of this world. And surely none but ypocrites or els +deuilles would go about too stoppe or allure men from suche +a treasure and godly study. And it were conuenient, that all +they whiche wyll remayne styll necligent, styffe, & blind: +shuld set before their faces the feare of paynes infernall, +and if thei haue any grace at all, their spirites ought to +be moued: too note the great plages that haue happened the +slouthful in gods woord, & those that haue been stubburne +ageynst the settyng || out of it. There bee a thousand +recordes and examples in the holy Bible agaynst such as be +farre wyde from knowledge, and lye now walteryng styl in +ignoraunce and will not looke vpon the bible. It woulde +seme, they hope for a thyng, but their hope is in vaine: +For saint Paule plainely writeth the hope of suche ypocrites +shall coo[~m] too nought. And too conclude (most honorable +Prince) seeyng wee haue suche knowledge opened vnto vs, as +neuer had englishe me, and are clearly deliuered from the +snares and deceiptes of al false and wicked doctrine, if we +shuld not now thakefully receaue the gospell, and shewe our +selues naturally enclyned to set it forwarde, yea, and pray +daye and night vnto God, for the preseruatio and health of +the kynges highnes, your graces deare, and most entierly +beloued father, we were neither true subiectes nor ryght +christen men. Forsoth, through the absolute wisedome, and +the most godly and politike prudencie of his grace, the +swete sounde of gods woorde is gone ||B.ii.|| thorough out +all this realme, the holye Bible and blessed testament of +oure sauiour Christ are coo[~m]ne to lighte, and thousandes +haue faithfully receiued those pleasaunt, ioyfull, and most +comfortable promises of God. Surely this thyng before all +other, is acceptable too god. This thyng especially swageth +ye ire of god. This thyng in all holi scriptures god most +chiefly requireth of his elect & faithfull seruautes, euen +too haue his lytell flocke knowe his blessed woorde, whiche +woulde bee muche better knowe & more thankefulli receaued, +yf al agees and degrees of men with one mynd, wyll, & voice, +would nowe drawe after one lyne, leauyng their owne priuate +affections, and shewe theim selues euer vigilant, prompt, +& ready helpers & workers with God, (accordynge to +the councell of sainct Paule) & especially priestes, +scolemaisters & paretes, which accordyng too ye Prophete +Dauid are blessed, if they gladly requite ye lawe of God. +They shuld therfore reade ye bible & purdge theyr mindes of +al papistry: for theyr || necligence, in dooyng their duties +& slugishnes toward ye blessed woord of god, dooeth too +muche appere. Through them forsoth the gospel of Christ +shuld bee most strongely warded and defended, for almost +all the Prophetes, and a great parte of the scripture beside +teache them their duties, and shew playnely what maner of +men they shulde bee: Yea, and how greuously the holy +Prophetes crie out vpon false and ignoraunt priestes, the +thyng is very euident. But through the helppe of God all +those that be ignoraunt, or els learned (as they take them +selues) wyll leaue of, and repent them of their wicked and +obstinate blyndnes, and bowe them selues with all +oportunitie too draw mens heartes too the holy testament +of God: consideryng, that in the terrible day of iudgement, +euery ma shall yeoue accompte of his Beliwicke, where +neither ignorauce shall excuse vs, ne yet any worldly pope +may defed vs. Most happye the shall they bee, whiche haue +walked iustely in the sight of the Lorde, and ||B.iii.|| +that haue syncerely preached his testament and lyuely woord +withoute flattery or iuggelyng: Yea, and in that fearful +day, all they (as writeth S. Augustine) shal fynde mercie +at the handes of god, whiche haue entised and allured other +vnto goodnes and vertue. Weiyng this with my self, (most +excellent, and vnto all kynd of vertues most propt & prestat +Prince) I thought it good too translate this Dialoge, called +the Epicure, for your grace: whiche semed too me, too bee +very familiar, & one of ye godliest Dialoges that any ma +hath writte in ye latin tong. Now therfore I most humili +praie, that this my rude & simple traslation may bee +acceptable vnto your grace, trustyng also that your most +approued gentilnes, wil take it in good part. There as I +doo not folow ye latyn, woord for woord, for I omytte that +of a certaine set purpose. + + _Your humile seruaunt, Philyppe_ + Gerrard, groume of your + graces Chambre. + + * * * * * + + The interlocutours + + {HEDONIVS} {SPVDEVS} + +What meaneth hit _Spudeus_, too applye hys booke so +ernestlye I praye you what is the matter you murmour so with +yourselfe? _SPVDEVS._ The truth is (O _Hedoni_) I seke too +haue knowledge of a thing, but as yet I cannot fynde that +whych maketh for my purpose. _HEDO_ What booke haue you +there in your bosome? _SPVDE. Ciceros_ ||dialoge of the +endes of goodnes. _HEDO._ It had bene farre more better for +you, too haue sought for the begynnynges of godly thynges, +then the endes. _SPVDE._ Yea, but _Marcus Tullius_ nameth +that the ende of godlines which is an exquisite, a far +passing, and a very absolute goodnes in euerye puincte, +wherein there is contained all kynde of vertu: vnto the +knowledge ther of whosoeuer can attaine, shuld desire none +other thig, but hold himselfe hauyng onely that, as one most +fully content and satisfied. _HED._ That is a worke of very +great learning and eloquence. But doo you thynke, that you +haue preuailed in any thig there, whereby you haue the +||rather come too the knowledge of the truth? _SPE._ I +haue had such fruite and comoditie by it, that now verelye +hereafter I shall doubt more of the effect and endes of good +thinges, then I did before. _HEDO._ It is for husbad menne +too stande in doubt how farre the limittes and merebakes +extend. _SPE._ And I cannot but muse styll, yea, and wonder +very muche, why ther hath been so great controuersie in +iudgementes vpon so weightie a matter (as this is) emongist +so well learned menne: especially suche as bee most famous +and auncient writers. _HEDO._ This was euen the cause, where +the verite of a thyng is playne and manifest, cotrarily, ye +errour through || ignoraunce againe in the same, is soone +great & by diuers meanes encreaseth, for that thei knewe not +the foundation and first beginnyng of the whole matter, they +doo iudge at all auentures and are very fondly disceaued, +but whose sentence thynke you too bee truest? _SPE._ Whan +I heare _MARCVS Tullius_ reproue the thyng, I then fatasie +none of all their iudgementes, and whan I heare hym agayne +defende the cause: it maketh me more doubtfull the euer I +was and am in suche a studie, that I can say nothyng. But +as I suppose ye Stoickes haue erred the lest, and nexte vnto +the I commend the _Peripatetickes_. _HEDo._ Yet I lyke none +of their opinions || so well as I doo the Epicures. _SPV._ +And emogist all the sectes: the _Epicures_ iudgement is most +reproued and condemned with the whole consent and arbitremet +of all menne. _HED._ Let vs laye a side all disdayne and +spite of names, and admitte the Epicure too bee suche one, +as euery man maketh of hym. Let vs ponder and weighe the +thyng as it is in very deed. He setteth the high and +principall felicitie of man in pleasure, and thiketh that +lyfe most pure and godly, whiche may haue greate delectatio +and pleasure, and lytle pensiuenes. _SPV._ It is euen so. +_HED._ What more vertuouser thyng, I praye you, is possible +too bee spoke then this || saiyng. _Spu._ Yea, but all menne +wonder and crye out on it, and saye: it is the voyce of a +bruite beast, and not of manne. _Hedo._ I knowe thei doo so, +but thei erre in ye vocables of theise thinges, and are very +ignoraunt of the true and natiue significations of the +woordes, for if wee speake of perfecte thynges, no kinde of +menne bee more righter _Epicures_, then Christen men liuing +reueretly towardes God and ma, and in the right seruice and +worshiping of Christ. _SPV_ But I thinke the _Epicures_ bee +more nerer and agree rather with the _Cynickes_, then with +the Christien sorte: forsoth ye Christiens make them selues +leane || with fastynge, bewayle and lament their offences, +and eyther they bee nowe poore, or elles theyr charitie and +liberalitie on the nedye maketh theim poore, thei suffer +paciently to bee oppressed of mene that haue great power and +take many wronges at their handes, and many men also laughe +theim too skorne. Nowe, if pleasure brynge felicitie wyth +it, or helpe in anye wyse vnto the furderaunce of vertue: +we see playnly that this kynde of lyfe is fardest from al +pleasures. _Hedonius._ But doo you not admitte _Plautus_ too +bee of authoritie? _Speudeus._ Yea, yf he speake vprightely. +_Hedonius._ Heare nowe them, and beare awaye wyth you the +saiynge of || an vnthriftie seruaunt, whyche is more wyttier +then all the paradoxes of the Stoickes. _SPE._ I tarie +to heare what ye wil say. _HEDO._ Ther is nothyng more +miserable then a mynd vnquiet & agreued with it selfe. +_SPE._ I like this saiyng well, but what doo you gather of +it? _HEDO._ If nothing bee more miserable the an vnquiet +mynde, it foloweth also, that there is nothing happiar, then +a mynde voyde of all feare, grudge, and vnquietnes. _SPEV._ +Surely you gather the thing together with good reaso but +that notwithstandynge, in what countrie shall you fynde any +such mynde, that knoweth not it selfe gyltie and culpable in +some kynde of euell, _HEDO._ || I call that euyll, whiche +dissolueth the pure loue and amitie betwixt God and manne. +_SPV._ And I suppose there bee verye fewe, but that thei bee +offeders in this thynge. _HEDO._ And in good soth I take it, +that al those that bee purdged, are clere: whych wiped out +their fautes with lee of teares, and saltpeter of sorowfull +repentaunce, or els with the fire of charitie, their offeces +nowe bee not only smalle grefe and vnquietnes too them, but +also chaunce ofte for some more godlier purpose, as causing +the too lyue afterward more accordyngly vnto Gods +commaudemetes. _SPV._ In deede I knowe saltpeter and lee, +but yet I neuer hearde before, that faultes || haue been +purdged with fire. _H._ Surely, if you go to the minte you +shall see gould fyned wyth fyre, notwithstadyng that ther +is also, a certaine kynde of line that brenneth not if it +bee cast in ye fyre, but loketh more whiter then any water +coulde haue made it, & therefore it is called _Linum +asbestinum_, a kynde of lynen, whyche canne neither bee +quenched with water nor brent with fyre. _Spu._ Nowe in +good faith you bring a paradox more woderful then all the +maruailous and profound thynges of the Stoickes: lyue thei +pleasasauntly whom Chryst calleth blessed for that they +mourne & lament? _Hedonius._ Thei seme too the worlde too +mourne, but || verely they lyue in greate pleasure, and as +the commune saiynge is, thei lyue all together in pleasure, +in somuche that _SARDANAPALVS_, _Philoxenus_, or _Apitius_ +compared vnto them: or anye other spoken of, for the greate +desyre and study of pleasures, did leade but a sorowefull +and a myserable lyfe. _Spe._ These thinges that you declare +bee so straunge and newe, that I can scarcelye yeoue any +credite vnto them. _Hedo._ Proue and assaye them ones, and +you shall fynde all my saiynges so true as the Gospell, and +immediatly I shal bryng the thynge too suche a conclusion +(as I suppose) that it shall appeare too differ very lytle +from the truth ||C.i|| _SPV._ make hast then vnto your +purpose. _HED._ It shalbe doone if you wyll graunt me +certayne thynges or I begynne. _Spu._ If in case you +demaunde suche as bee resonable. _Hedo._ I wyl take myne +aduauntage, if you confesse the thyng that maketh for mine +intent. _Spu._ go too. _Hedo._ I thynke ye wyll fyrste +graunt me, that ther is great diuersitie betwxt the solle +and the bodye _Spu._ Euen as much as there is betwene heauen +and yearth, or a thyng earthly and brute, & that whiche +dieth neuer, but alwayes cotaineth in it the godly nature. +_Hedo._ And also, that false deceiueable & couterfetted holy +thynges, are not too bee taken for those, which in very dede +be || godly. _Spude._ No more then the shaddowes are too +bee estemed for the bodies, or the illusions and wonders of +wytchcraftes or the fantasies of dreames, are too bee taken +as true thynges. _HE._ Hitherto you answer aptly too my +purpose, and I thynke you wyl graunt me this thyng also, +that true and godly pleasure can reste and take place no +where but only on such a mynd that is sobree and honest. +_SPV._ What elles? for no man reioyseth too beholde the +Sunne, if his eyes bee bleared or elles delecteth in wyne, +if the agew haue infected hys tast. _HED._ And the _Epicure_ +hymselfe, or elles I am disceiued, would not clippe & +enbrace that pleasure, whiche ||C.ii.|| would bring with +it farre greater payne and suche as would bee of long +continuaunce. _SPV_ I thynke he woulde not, if he had any +wytte at all. _HED._ Nor you wyll not denye this, that God +is the chiefe and especiall goodnes, then who there is +nothyng fayrer, there is nothyng ameabler, ther is nothing +more delicious and swetter. _SPVDE._ No man wyll deny thys +except he bee very harde hearted and of an vngentler nature +then the _Ciclopes_. _HED._ Nowe you haue graunted vnto +me, that none lyue in more pleasure, then thei whyche lyue +vertuouslye, and agayne, none in more sorowe and calamytie +then those that || lyue vngratiously. _Spu._ Then I haue +grauted more the I thought I had. _He._ But what thing you +haue ones cofessed too bee true (as _Plato_ sayth) you +should not deny it afterward. _SPV._ Go furth with your +matter. _HEDO_ The litle whelpe that is set store and greate +price by, is fed most daintely, lieth soft, plaieth and +maketh pastime continually, doo you thinke that it lyueth +plesautly? _SPV._ It dooeth truely. _HEDO._ Woulde you wyshe +to haue suche a lyfe? _SPV._ God forbyd that, excepte I +woulde rather bee a dogge then a man, _HEDO._ Then you +confesse that all the chief pleasures arise and spring +fro the mynd, as though it were from a welspryng. _SPV._ +||C.iii|| That is euident ynough. _HE._ Forsoth the strength +and efficacy of the minde is so great, that often it taketh +away the felyng of al externe and outward pain & maketh that +pleasaunt, which by it selfe is very peynful. _SPV._ We se +that dayly in louers, hauyng great delight to sytte vp long +& too daunce attendaunce at their louers doores all the +colde wynter nyghtes. _HEDo._ Now weigh this also, if the +naturall loue of man, haue suche great vehemency in it, +which is a comune thyng vnto vs, both with bulles and +dogges, howe much more should all heauenly loue excell +in vs, which cometh of ye spirit of Christ, whose stregthe +is of suche power, that it ||would make death a thig most +terrible, too bee but a pleasure vnto vs. _Spu._ What other +men thike inwardly I know not, but certes thei wat many +pleasures which cleaue fast vnto true and perfect vertue. +_He._ What pleasures? _Spu._ Thei waxe not rich, thei optein +no promotio, thei baket not, thei dauce not, thei sing not, +thei smell not of swete oyntmetes, thei laugh not, thei +play not. _He._ We should haue made no mention in thys +place of ryches and prefermente, for they bryng wyth them +no pleasaunt lyfe, but rather a sadde and a pesiue. Let vs +intreate of other thynges, suche as they chiefely seeke for, +whose desyre is to liue deliciously, see ye not daily +||C.iiii|| drokerdes, fooles, and mad menne grinne and +leape? _SPV._ I see it _HED._ Do you thynke that thei liue +most pleasautly? _SPV_ God send myne enemies such myrth & +pleasure. _HE._ Why so? _Sp._ For ther lacketh emongist the +sobrietie of mind. _HE._ Then you had leuer sit fastyng at +your booke, then too make pastime after any suche sorte. +_SP._ Of the both: truly I had rather chose to delue. +_H._ For this is plaine that betwixt the mad ma & the +drukerd ther is no diuersitie, but that slepe wil helpe the +one his madnes, & with much a doo ye cure of _Physicions_ +helpeth the other, but the foole natural differeth nothing +fro a brute beast except by shape and portrature of body, +yet thei || be lesse miserable whom nature hathe made verye +brutes, then those that walowe theim selues in foule and +beastly lustes. _SP._ I confesse that. _Hedo._ But now tell +me, whether you thynke the sobre and wyse, which for playn +vanities and shadowes of plesure, booth dispice the true +and godlye pleasures of the mynde and chose for them selues +suche thynges as bee but vexacion & sorowe. _SPV._ I take +it, thei bee not. _Hedo._ In deede thei bee not druke with +wyne, but with loue with anger, with auarice, with ambicion, +and other foule and filthie desires, whiche kynde of +drunkenes is farre worse, the that is gotten with drinking +of wine. Yet _Sirus_ that leude cospanio ||of whom mention +is made in ye commedie, spake witty thynges after he had +slepte hym self soobre, and called too memorie his greate +and moost beastlye drunkenes: but the minde that is infected +with vicious & noughty desire, hath muche a doo too call it +selfe whom agein? How many yeares doeth loue, anger, spite, +sensualitie, excesse, and ambition, trouble and prouoke the +mynde? How many doo wee see, whiche euen from their youth, +too their latter dais neuer awake nor repet them of the +drunkennes, of ambitio, nigardnes, wanton lust, & riatte? +_Spu._ I haue knowen ouermany of that sorte. _Hedo._ You +haue grauted that false and fayned good || thinges, are not +too bee estemed for the pure and godly. _Sp._ And I affirme +that still. _Hedo._ Nor that there is no true and perfect +pleasure, except it bee taken of honest and godly thynges. +_Spud._ I confesse that. _He._ Then (I pray you) bee not +those good that the commune sorte seeke for, they care not +howe? _Spu._ I thinke they be not. _Hedo._ Surely if thei +were good, they would not chaunce but onely too good men: +and would make all those vertuous that they happen vntoo. +What maner of pleasure make you that, doo you thinke it too +bee godly, which is not of true & honest thynges, but of +deceatfull: and coometh out of ye shadowes of good thynges? +_Sp._ || Nay in noo wyse. _He._ For pleasure maketh vs to +liue merely. _Spu._ Yea, nothyng so muche. _He._ Therfore +no man truely liueth pleasauntly, but he that lyueth godly: +that is, whiche vseth and delecteth onli in good thynges: +for vertue of it selfe, maketh a man to habound in all +thynges that bee good, perfete, & prayse worthy: yea, it +onely prouoketh God the fountaine of all goodnes, too loue +and fauour man. _SP._ I almost consent with you. _HED._ +But now marke howe far they bee from all pleasure, whiche +seeme openly emongist all men too folowe nothyng, but the +inordinate delectation in in thynges carnall. || First their +mynde is vile, and corrupted with the sauour and taste of +noughtie desires, in so muche that if any pleasaunt thing +chaunce them, forthwith it waxeth bitter, and is nought set +by, in like maner as where ye welle hed is corrupted and +stynketh, there ye water must nedes be vnsauery. Agein ther +is no honest pleasure, but that whiche wee receaue with a +sobre and a quiet mynde. For wee see, nothyng reioyseth the +angry man more, the too bee reuenged on his offenders, but +that pleasure is turned into pain after his rage bee past, +and anger subdued. _Spu._ I say not the contrary. +_He._ Finally, suche leude pleasures bee taken of fallible +thinges, therefore || it foloweth that they be but delusios +and shadowes. What woulde you say furthermore, if you saw +a ma so deceaued with sorcerie & also other detestable +witchecraftes, eat, drynke, leap, laugh, yea, and clappe +handes for ioye, when ther wer no such thyng there in very +dede, as he beleueth he seeth. _Spu._ I wolde say he were +both mad and miserable. _Hedo._ I my self haue been often +in place, where the lyke thyng hath been doone. There was +a priest whiche knewe perfectly by longe experience and +practise, the arte to make thynges seme that they were not, +otherwise called, _deceptio visus_. _Sp._ He did not lerne +that arte of the holy scripture? _Hedo._ Yea, || rather of +most popeholy charmes and witchecraftes: that is too saye, +of thinges, cursed, dampnable, and wourthy too bee abhorred. +Certayne ladies & gentlewomen of the courte, spake vnto hym +oftentimes: saiyng, they woulde coo[~m] one day too his +house and see what good chere he kept: reprouyng, greatly +vile and homly fare, and moderate expenses in all thynges. +He graunted they shulde bee welcome, and very instauntly +desired them. And they came fastyng because they would +haue better appetites. Wha they wer set to dyner (as it was +thought) ther wated noo kynde of delitious meat: they filled +the selues haboudantly: after ye feast was || doone, they +gaue moost hearty thanckes, for their galaunte cheare, and +departed, euery one of them vnto their owne lodgynges: but +anone their stomackes beganne too waxe an hungred, they +maruayled what this shuld meane, so soone to be an hungred +and a thirste, after so sumptuous a feast: at the last the +matter was openly knowen and laught at. _Spu._ Not without a +cause, it had been muche better for the too haue satisfied +their stomackes at their owne chabers with a messe of +potage, the too be fed so delitiousli with vain illusios. +_H._ And as I thik ye comune sort of men ar muche more too +bee laught at, whiche in steede of Godlye thynges, ||chose +vaine and transitory shadowes, and reioyce excedyngly in +suche folishe phansies that turne not afterwarde in too +a laughter, but into euerlasting lamentation and sorow. +_Spudeus_ The more nerelier I note your saiynges, the better +I like the. _Hedo._ Go too, let vs graunt for a tyme these +thynges too bee called pleasaunt, that in very dede ar not. +Would yow saye that meeth were swete: whiche had more Aloes +myngled with it, then honye? _Spud._ I woulde not so say and +if there were but the third part of an ounce of Aloes mixt +with it. _Hedo._ Or els, would you wishe to bee scabbed +because you haue some pleasure too scratch? _Spud._ Noo, if +I wer ||D.i|| in my right mynd. _HED._ Then weigh with your +self how great peyne is intermyngled wyth these false and +wrongly named pleasures, that vnshamefast loue filthie +desire, much eatyng and drinking bring vs vnto: I doo omitte +now that, which is principall grudge of coscience, enemitie +betwixt God and ma, and expectation of euerlastyng +punishement. What kynd of pleasure, I pray you is ther in +these thinges, that dooeth not bryng with it a greate heape +of outeward euilles? _SPV._ What bee thei? _HEDO._ We ought +to let passe and forbeare in this place auarice, ambition, +wrath, pryde enuy, whiche of their selues bee heuy and +sorowful euylles and || let vs conferre and compare all +those thynges together, that haue the name of some chief and +special pleasure: wher as the agew the hedache, the swelling +of the belly, dulnes of witte, infamy, hurt of memory, +vomyting, decaye of stomacke, tremblyng of the body succede +of ouer muche drynking: thynke you, that the _Epicure_ would +haue estemed any suche lyke pleasure as thys, couenient and +wourthy desire? _SPV._ He woulde saye it wer vtterly too bee +refused. _HEDONi._ Wheras young men also with hauntynge of +whores (as it is dayly seene) catche the newe leprosie, nowe +otherwyse named Jobs agew, and some cal it the scabbes of +Naples, throughe ||D.ii|| which desease they feele often ye +most extreme and cruell paines of deathe euen in this lyfe, +and cary about a bodye resemblyng very much some dead coarse +or carryn, do you thynke that thei apply them selues vnto +godlye pleasure. _SPVD._ Noo, for after thei haue been often +familiar with their prety ones, then they must goo streighte +too the barbours, that chaunceth continuallye vnto all +whoremongers. _HED._ Now fayne that ther wer a lyke measure +of pain and plesure, would ye then require too haue the +toothache so longe as the pleasure of quaffing & whordome +endured? _SPV._ Verely I had rather wat them booth, for ther +is no commoditie nor || vantage to bye pleasure with payn +but only to chaug one thing for another, but the best choise +is nowe not too affectionate anye such leudnes, for _MAR. +Tullius_ calleth that an inward greife & sorow. _He._ But +now ye prouocation & entisemet of vnleful plesure, besides +that it is much lesse then the pain which it bringeth with +it, it is also a thing of a very short time: but if the +leprosye bee ones caught, it tourmeteth me al their life +daies very pitifully & oftentimes costraineth them to wyshe +for death before thei ca dye. _SP._ Such disciples as those +then, the _Epicure_ would not knowe. _HED._ For the most +part pouertie, a very miserable and painfull burden, +foloweth ||D.iii.|| lechery, of immoderate lust cometh the +palsie, tremblyng of ye senewes, bleardnes of eyes, and +blyndnes, the leprosie and not these only, is it not a +proper pece of worke (I pray you) to chaug this short +pleasure neyther honest nor yet godly, for so manye euylles +far more greuouse and of muche longer continuance. +_SP._ Although there shoulde no pain com of it, I esteme +hym to bee a very fond occupier, which would chauge precious +stones for glasse. _HE._ You meane that would lose the godly +pleasures of the mynde, for the coloured pleasures of ye +body. _SP._ That is my meanyng. _HE._ But nowe let vs come +to a more perfecter supputation, neither the agewe || nor +yet pouerty foloweth alwaies carnal pleasure, nor the new +leprosy or els the palsy wait not on at al times the great & +excessiue vse of lecherye, but grudge of cosiece euermore is +a folower & sure companio of al vnleaful pleasure, then the +which as it is plainly agreed betwixt vs, nothyng is more +miserable. _SPV._ Yea, rather it grudgeth their coscience +sometyme before hande, & in the self pleasure it pricketh +their mynde, yet ther bee some that you woulde say, want +this motion and feelyng. _HE._ Thei bee nowe therfore in +worse estate & coditio. Who would not rather feele payne, +then too haue hys body lacke any perfecte sence, truly from +some ether intemperatnes ||D.iiii.|| of euel desires, euen +like as it were a certayne kynde of drunkenes, or els wont +and comune haunt of vice which ar so hardened in them, that +they take a way ye felyng & cosideration of euyl in their +youth, so that wha agee commeth vpo them beside other +infinitie hurtes and perturbations agaynst whose commyng +thei should haue layd vp the deedes of their former lyfe, +as a special iuwel and treasure: then thei stande greatly in +fear of death, a thyng emongist all other most ineuitable, +& that no man canne shonne: yea, and the more they haue +heretofore been dysmayed and lacked their sences, the +greater now is their vnquietnes and grudge of || conscience, +then truely the mynde is sodenly awaked whether it wol or +noo, and verely wher as olde agee is alwayes sad and heuy +of it selfe for as muche as it is in subiection and bondage +vnto many incommodities of nature, but then it is farre more +wretchede and also fylthye, if the mynde vnquiet with it +selfe shal trouble it also: feastes, ryotous banketyng, +syngyng, and daunsynge, with manye suche other wanton toyes +& pastimes which he was communely yeoue vnto & thought very +plesaut when he was young, bee nowe paynfull vnto hym beyng +olde and crooked, ne agee hath nothyng too comforte and +fortifi || it selfe withall, but onely too remembre that it +hath passed ouer the course of yeares in vertue and godly +liuyng and conceaue a special trust too obtaine herafter a +better kynde of life. These be the two staues wherevpon age +is stayed, & if in their steed you wyll lay on hym these +two burdens: that is, memorie how synfully he hath ledde his +life, and desperation of the felicitie that is too coome, +I praye you what liuyng thyng can bee feyned too suffre +sorer punishement and greater miserie? _spu._ Verely I can +see nothyng although some man woulde saye an olde horse. +_hedo._ Then to coclude it is too late to waxe wise And that +saiyng appereth now || too bee very true. Carefull mornynges +doo oftentymes folowe mery euentides, and all vayne and +outragious mirth euer turneth into sorowfull sighes: yea, & +they shulde haue considered both that there is noo pleasure +aboue ye ioyfulnes of the heart, and that chearefull mynde +maketh agee too florishe, an heauy spirit consumeth the +boones, & also that all the dayes of the poore are euell: +that is, sorowfull and wretched. And agayne a quiet mynde is +lyke a contynuall feaste. _SPVDEVS._ Therfore they bee wyse, +that thryue in tyme, and gather too gether necessaries for +that agee coo[~m]. _HEDONI._ The holy scripture intreateth +not soo wordely || as too measure the felicitie and highe +consolation of manne, by the goodes of fortune, onely he +is very poore, that is destitute and voyde of al grace & +vertue, and standeth in boundage and debette, bothe of bodye +& solle vnto that tyranne oure moost foo & mortall enemie +the deuill. _SPV._ Surely he is one that is veri rigorous +and impatient in demaundynge of his dutie. _HE._ Moreouer +that man is ryche, whiche fyndeth mercye and foryeouenes at +the handes of god. What shuld he feare, that hath suche a +protectour? Whether men? where as playnely theyr hole power +may lesse do agaest God, then the bytyng of a gnat, || +hurteth the Elephant. Whether death? truly that is a right +passage for good men vnto all sufficient ioy and perfection +accordyng too the iust reward of true religion and vertue. +Whether hell? For as in that the holy prophete speaketh +boldely vnto God. Although I shulde walke in the middest of +the shadow of death, I wil not feare any euils because ye +art with me. Wherfore shulde he stande in feare of deuils, +whiche beareth in his heart hym, that maketh the deuils too +tremble and quake. For in diuers places the holye scripture +praiseth and declareth opely the mynde of a vertuous man, +too bee the right temple of God. And this to bee so true +that || that it is not too bee spoken agaynst, ne in any +wise shuld bee denied. _SPV._ Forsoth I can not see, by what +reason these saiynges of yours can be confuted al thoughe +they seme too varye muche from the vulgar and comune +opinion of men. _HEDO._ Why doo they soo? _SPV._ After +your reasonyng euery honest poore man, shulde liue a more +pleasaunt life, then any other, how much soeuer he did +haboud in riches, honour, and dignitie: and breuely though +he had all kynde of pleasures. _HE._ Adde this too it (if it +please you) too bee a kyng, yea, or an emperour if you take +away a quiet mynd with it selfe, I dare boldely say, that +the poore man sklenderlye || and homely appareled, made +weake with fastyng, watchyng, great toile and labour, and +that hath scarcely a groat in all the worlde, so that his +mynde bee godly, he lyueth more deliciously then that man +whiche hathe fyue hudreth times greater pleasures & +delicates, then euer had _Sardanapalus_. _SP._ Why is it +the, that we see communely those that bee poore looke farre +more heuely then riche men. _HED._ Because some of them bee +twise poore, eyther some desease, nedines, watchyng, labour, +nakednesse, doo soo weaken the state of their bodyes, that +by reason therof, the chearefulnes of their myndes neuer +sheweth it selfe, neyther in these thinges, || nor yet in +their deathe. The mynde, forsooth thoughe it bee inclosed +within this mortal bodye, yet for that it is of a stronger +nature, it sowhat trasfourmeth and fascioneth the bodie +after it selfe, especially if the vehement instigation of +the spirit approche the violent inclination of nature: this +is the cause we see oftentymes suche men as bee vertuous die +more cherefully, then those that make pastyme contynually, +& bee yeoue vnto all kynd of pleasures. _SP._ In very dede, +I haue meruayled oftten at that thyng. _HED_ Forsoothe it is +not a thyng too bee marueyled at, though that there shulde +bee vnspeakeable || ioy and comforte where God is present, +whiche is the heed of all mirth and gladnes, nowe this is +no straunge thyng, althoughe the mynde of a godly man doo +reioyce contynually in this mortall bodye: where as if the +same mynde or spirit discended into the lowest place of hell +shuld lose no parte of felicitie, for whersoeuer is a pure +mynd, there is god, wher God is: there is paradise, ther is +heauen, ther is felicitie, wher felicitie is: ther is the +true ioy and synsere gladnes. _SP._ But yet they shuld liue +more pleasauntly, if certein incommodities were taken from +them, and had suche pastymes as eyther they dispise orels +can not get nor attaine vnto. _HE._ ||E.i.|| (I praye you) +doo you meane, suche incommodities as by the commune course +of nature folow the codition or state of ma: as hunger, +thirst, desease, werynes, age, death, lyghtnyng yearthquake, +fluddes & battail? _SPV._ I meane other, and these also. +_HEDO._ Then we intreate styll of mortal thynges and not of +immortal, & yet in these euils the state of vertuous men, +may bee better borne withal, then of suche as seeke for the +pleasures of the body they care not howe. _SPV._ Why so: +_HEDO._ Especyally because their myndes bee accustomed and +hardened with most sure and moderate gouernaunce of reason +against al outragious affections of the mind || and they +take more patiently those thynges that cannot bee shonned +then the other sort doo Furthermore, for as muche as thei +perceiue, all such thynges ar sent of god, either for the +punishment of their faultes, or els too excitate and sturre +them vp vnto vertue, then thei as meeke and obediente +chyldren receiue them from the had of their mercifull +father, not only desireously, but also chearefully and +geue thankes also, namely for so merciful punyshment and +inestimable gaines. _SPV._ But many doo occatio griefes +vnto the selues. _HEDO._ But mo seeke remedye at the +_Phisicions_, either to preserue their bodies in helth or +elles if they bee sycke, too ||E.ii.|| recouer health, but +willyngly too cause their owne sorowes, that is, pouertie, +sickenes, persecution, slaunder, excepte the loue of God +compel vs therto, it is no vertue but folishnes: but as +often as thei bee punyshed for Christ and iustice sake, +who dar bee so bold as too cal them beggers & wretches? +wha the Lord himself very famyliarly calleth them blessed, +and commaudeth vs to reioyse for their state and condition. +_SPV._ Neuerthelesse, these thynges haue a certayne payne +and griefe. _HEDO._ Thei haue, but on the onesyde, what for +fear of hel, and the other for hoope of euerlastynge ioye, +the payne is sone past and forgotte Now tell me if you +knewe that || you myghte neuer bee sycke, or elles that you +shoulde feele no payne of your body in your life tyme, if +you woulde but ones suffer your vtter skinne too bee prycked +with a pynnes puinct, would you not gladly and with all your +very heart suffer then so lytle a payne as that is? +_SPV_ Verye gladlye, yea, rather if I knewe perfectlye +that my teeth would neuer ake, I would willynglye suffer +too bee prycked depe with a nedle, and too haue both mine +eares bored through with a bodkin. _HEDO._ Surely what payne +soeuer happeneth in this lyfe, it is lesse and shorter, +compared with the eternall paines, then is the soden pricke +of a needle, incompariso of the ||E.iii.|| lyfe of man +though it bee neuer so long, for there is no conuenience or +proportion of the thyng that hath ende, and that whych is +infinite. _SPV._ You speake very truly. _HEDO._ Now if a man +coulde fully perswade you, that you should neuer feele payne +in al your life, if you did but ones deuide the flame of ye +fyre, with your hande, whyche thyng vndoughtely _Pithagoras_ +forbade, woulde you not gladlye doo it? _SPV._ Yea, on that +condicion I had liefer doo it an hundred times, if I knew +precisely the promiser would kepe touch. _HE._ It is playne +God cannot deceaue. But now that feelyng of paine in the +fyre is longer vnto the whole lyfe of man, then is the +||lyfe of ma, in respect of the heauenlye ioye, althoughe +it were thrise so long as ye yeares of _Nestor_, for that +casting of the hand in the fyre thoughe it bee neuer so +shorte, yet it is some parte of hys lyfe, but the whole +lyfe of man is noo portion of tyme in respect of the eternal +lyfe. _SPV._ I haue nothyng too saye against you. +_HEDO._ Doo you then thyncke that anye affliction or +tourment can disquiet those that prepare them selues wyth a +chearful hearte and a stedfast hoope vnto the kyngedome of +God, wher as the course of this lyfe is nowe so shorte? +_SPVDE._ I thinke not, if thei haue a sure perswasion and a +constant hope too attayne it. _HEDO._ I coome ||E.iiii.|| now +vnto those pleasures, whiche you obiected agaynst me, they +do wythdrawe them selues from daunsynge, bankettynge, from +pleasaunte seeghtes, they dispyce all these thynges, as +thus: for to haue the vse of thinges farre more ioyfulle, +and haue as great pleasure as these bee, but after another +sorte: the eye hath not seene, the eare hath not heard, +nor the heart of man cannot thyncke what consolations _GOD_ +hathe ordeined for them that loue hym. Sayncte Paule knewe +what maner of thynges shoulde bee the songes, queeres, +daunsynges, and bankettes of vertuous myndes, yea, in this +lyfe. _SPVDEVS_ but there bee some leafull || pleasures, +whyche they vtterlye refuse. _HEDONIVS._ That maye bee, for +the immoderate vse of leafull and godly games or pastymes, +is vnleaful: and if you wyll excepte this one thing onlye, +in al other thei excelle whiche seeme too leade a paynfull +lyfe, and whome we take too bee ouerwhelmed with all kynd of +miseries. Now I prai you what more roialler sight can ther +be, then ye coteplatio of this world? and such men as ye be +in fauour of god keping his holy comaudemetes & loue his +most blessed testamet, receiue far geater pleasure in the +syght therof, then thother sorte doo, for while thei behold +wyth ouercurious eyes, ye woderful worke, their mynde || is +troubled because they can not compasse for what purpose he +doeth such thinges, then thei improue the moost righte and +wise gouernour of all and murmour at his doinges as though +they were goddes of reprehension: and often finde faute with +that lady nature, and saye that she is vnnaturall, whiche +taunt forsooth with as muche spite as can bee shewed with +woordes, greueth nature: but truely it reboundeth on hym, +that made nature, if there bee any at all. But the vertuous +man with godly & simple eyes beholdeth with an excedyng +reioyce of heart the workes of his Lorde and father highly +praysyng the all, and neither reprehedeth nor || findeth +faut with any of the, but for euery thyng yeoueth moste +hearty thankes, when he considereth that al were made for +the loue of man. And so in al thynges, he praieth vnto the +infinite power, deuine wisedome, & goodnes of the maker, +wherof he perceiueth moste euident tokens in thynges that +bee here created. Now fain that there were suche a palace in +verie deede as _Apuleus_ faineth, or els one that were more +royall and gorgeouse, and that you shoulde take twoo thither +with you too beholde it, the one a straunger, whiche gooeth +for this intent onely too see the thyng, and the other the +seruaut or soonne of hym that firste causeth this buyldyng, +whether || will haue more delectie in it? the straunger, too +whom suche maner of house dooeth nothyng appartain, or the +soonne whiche beholdeth with greate ioye and pleasure, the +witte, riches, and magnificence of his deerely beloued +father, especially when he dooeth consider all this worke +was made for his sake. _Sp._ Your question is too plain: +for they most comunely that bee of euill condicions, knowe +that heauen and all thinges contained therin, were made for +mannes sake. _HEDO._ Almoste al knowe that, but some dooe +not remembre it, shewyng theselues vnthakeful for the great +and exhuberat benefittes of god, & al though thei remember +it, yet that ma taketh || greater delight in the sight of it +whiche hath more loue vnto the maker therof, in like maner +as, he more chearfully wyll behold the element whiche +aspireth towarde the eternall life. _SPV._ Your saiynges +are muche like too bee true. _HED._ Nowe the pleasures of +feastes dooeth not consist in the delicates of the mouth, +nor in the good sauces of cookes, but in health of body +and appetite of stomacke. You may not thynke that any +delicious person suppeth more pleasauntly hauyng before hym +partriches, turtelles, leuerettes, bekers, sturgeon, and +lamprayes: then a vertuous man hauyng nothig too eat, but +onely bread potage, or wortes: and nothyng || too drynke, +but water, single bere, or wyne well alayde, be cause he +taketh these thinges as prepared of God vnto all lyuyng +creatures, and that they bee now yeoue vnto him of his +gentyll and mercifull father, praier maketh euery thyng +too sauour well. The petition in ye begynnyng of dyner +sanctifieth all thynges and in a while after there is +recited some holy lesson of the woorde of God: whiche more +refresheth the minde, then meate the body, and grace after +all this. Finally he riseth from the table, not ful: but +recreated, not laden, but refreshed: yea, refreshed both in +spirit and bodie, thynke you that any chief deuiser of these +muche vsed bakets, & || deintye delicaces fareth nowe more +deliciously? _SPudeus._ But in _Venus_ there is greate +delectacions if we beleue _Arestotell_. _Hed._ And in this +behalfe the vertuous manne far excelleth as well as in good +fare, wiegh you now the matter as it is, the better a manne +loueth his wife, the more he delecteth in the good felowship +and familiaritie that is betwene theim after the course +of nature. Furthermore, no menne loue their wiues more +vehemetly then thei that loue theim eue soo, as Christ loued +the churche. For thei that loue the for the desire of bodely +pleasure, loue the not. More ouer, the seldomer any man +dooeth accompany with his wife, the greater pleasure, it || +is to hym afterwarde, and that thyng the wato poete knew +full well whiche writeth, rare and seldome vse stereth vp +pleasures. Albeit, the lest parte of pleasure is in the +familiare company betwene theim. There is forsothe far +greater in the continuall leadyng of their liues too gether, +whiche emongest none can be so plesaunt as those that loue +syncerely and faithfully together in godly and christian +loue, and loue a like one the other. In the other sort, ofte +whethe pleasure of ye body decaieth & waxeth old loue waxeth +coold & is sone forgotto, but emogest right christe me, the +more ye the lust of ye flesh decreaseth & vanisheth away, +ye more the al godly loue encreseth || Are you not yet +perswaded that none lyue more pleasauntly the they whiche +liue continually in vertue and true religio of god? +_SP._ Would god all men were as well perswaded in that +thyng. _He._ And if they bee Epicures that lyue pleasauntli: +none bee righter Epicures then they that liue vertuously, +and if we wyll that euery thyng haue it right name none +deserueth more ye cogname of an Epicure, then that Prince of +all godly wisedome too who most reueretly we ought alwaies +too praye: for in the greeke tonge an Epicure signifieth +an helper. Nowe whan the lawe of nature was first corrupted +with sinne, whe the law of Moses did rather prouoke euil +desires ||F.i.|| then remedy them. Wha the tyraunte Sathanas +reygned in this worlde freely and wythout punishement, then +thys prynce onely, dyd sodenlye helpe mankynde redy to +perishe: wherfore thei erre shamefully which scoff and +bable that _CHRIST_ was one that was sadd and of a +malancolye nature, & that he hath prouoked vs vnto an +vnpleasaunt kynde of lyfe, for onely he did shewe a kind +of liuing most godly and fullest of al true pleasure, if +we might haue the stone of _Tantalus_ taken awaye from vs. +_SPVD._ What darke saiyng is this? _EDO._ It is a mery tale +too laugh at, but this bourd induceth verye graue and sadde +thynges. _SPV._ I tary too heare ||this mery conceite, that +you name too bee so sage a matter. _HE_ Thei whiche gaue +their studye and diligence to colour and set furth the +preceptes of Philosophie wyth subtil fables, declare that +there was one _Tantalus_ broughte vnto the table of the +goddes, whych was euer furnished wyth all good fare, and +most nete and sumptuous that myght bee, whan thys straunger +shoulde take hys leave, Iupyter thought it was for his great +liberalitie and highe renoume, that his guest shuld not +depart wythout some rewarde, he wylled him therfore too +aske what he woulde, and he shoulde haue it: _Tantalus_ +(forsooth) lyke a verye leude and foolyshe person, ||F.ii.|| +for that he sette all the felicitie and pleasure of man in +the delectation of the bely, and glotonye, desired but +only too sytte at suche a table all the dayes of hys life, +Iupiter graunted him his desire, and shortly his vow was +there stablished and ratifyed. _Tantalus_ nowe sytteth at +the table furnyshed wyth all kindes of delicates, such +drinke as the goddes druncke of was set on the table, and +there wanted no rooses nor odours that could yeoue any swete +smel before the Goddes, _Ganymedes_ the buttler or one lyke +vnto hym, standeth euer redye, the _Muses_ stande rounde +aboute syngyng pleasauntly, mery _Silenus_ daunseth, ne ther +wanted noo fooles || too laugh at, and breuely, there was +euerye thynge that coulde delyght any sence of ma but +emongist all these, _Tantalus_ sytteth all sadde, syghyng, +and vnquiet with hym selfe, neither laughing nor yet +touching such thynges as were set before hym _SPVDE._ What +was the cause? _HED._ Over his head as he sate there haged +by an heere a great stone euer lyke too fall. _SPV._ I +woulde then haue conueied my selfe from suche a table. +_HEDO_ But his vowe had bound hym too the contrarye, for +Iupyter is not so easye too intreate as oure _GOD_, which +dooeth vnloose the pernitious vowes of menne, that bee made +contrary vnto his holy woord, if thei bee ||F.iii.|| penitent +and sorye therfore, or elles it myght bee thus, the same +stoone that woulde not suffer hym too eate, would neither +suffer hym to ryse, for if he had but ones moued he shuld +haue been quashed al in peeses with the fall thereof. +_SPVDE._ You haue shewed a very mery fable _HEDON._ But nowe +heare that thing, which you wil not laugh at: the commune +people seeke too haue a pleasaunt life in outwarde thynges, +where as noothyng can yeoue that, but onely a constant and a +quiet mind: for surely a far heuier stone hangeth ouer these +that grudge with them selues, then hanged ouer _Tantalus_: +it only hangeth not ouer them, but greueth and || oppresseth +the mynde, ne the mind is not troubled wyth any vayn hoope, +but looketh euery houre to bee caste in too the paynes of +hell, I praye you what can bee so pleasaunt emongist all +thinges that bee yeouen vnto man, that coulde reioyse the +mynde, whyche were oppressed wyth suche a stoone? +_SPVDE._ Truely there is nothyng but madnes, or elles +incredulitie. _HEDO._ Yf younge menne woulde weygh these +thynges, that bee quyckly prouoked and entised with pleasure +as it were wyth the cuppe of _Circes_, whiche in steade of +theyr greatest pleasures receiue poysone myxte with honye. +Howe circumspecte would they bee too doo anye thynge +||F.iiii|| vnaduisedly that shoulde grudge their mindes +afterward? What thinge is it that thei would not doo too +haue suche a godly treasure in store against their latter +daies? that is a minde knowyng it selfe cleane & honest and +a name that hath not been defiled at any time. But what +thyng now is more miserable then is agee? Whan it beholdeth, +and loketh backward on thinges that be past seeth plainly +with great grudg of conscience howe fayre thynges he hathe +despiced and sette lyght by, (that is, howe farre he hath +discented and gone astray from the promyses made vnto God in +baptime) & agayn, how foule & noughty thiges he hath clipped +and enbraced, and wha || hee looketh forwarde, hee seeth +then the daye of iudgemente drawe neere, and shortely after +the eternall punyshemente of of hell. _SPVDE._ I esteme +theim most happie whych haue neuer defyled theyr youthe, +but euer haue increased in vertu, til thei haue coomne vnto +the last puincte of age. _HEDO._ Next them thei ar too bee +commended that haue wythdrawne theim selues from the folie +of youth in tyme. _SPVDE._ But what councel wil you yeoue +agee that is in suche great myserie. _HEDO._ No man shoulde +dispayre so long as life endureth, I wyl exhorte him to +flee for helpe vnto the infinitie mercye & gentilnes of God. +_SP._ But the longer that he hath liued || the heape of his +synnes hath euer waxen greate and greater, so that nowe it +passeth the nomber of the sandes in the sea, _HE_ But the +mercies of our lord far excede those sades, for although the +sande can not bee numbred of manne, yet hit hath an ende, +but the mercie of God neither knoweth ende, ne measure. +_SP._ Yea but he hath no space that shall dye by and by, +_HEDONI._ The lesse tyme he hath the more feruetly he should +cal vnto god for grace, that thyng is long inough before +God, whiche is of suche power as too ascende from the yearth +vnto heaue, for a short prayer forsoth streght entreth +heaue, if it bee made with a vehemet spirit. It is written, +that || ye woma synner spoken of in the gospell did penaunce +al her life dayes: but with how fewe wordes again did the +thief obtain Paradise in the houre of death? If he will +crye with hearte and mynde, God haue mercie on me after +thy great mercie: God wil take awaye from hym _Tantalus_ + stone and yeoue in his hea- + ryng ioye and cofort + and his bones hu- + miled throughe + cotrition, wil + reioyse + that + he + hath his synnes + foryeouen + hym. + + *FINIS.* + + * * * * * + + Imprinted at London within the + precinct of the late dissolued house + of the gray Friers, by Richarde + Grafton, Printer too the + Princes grace. + the. XXIX. + daie of Iuly, the yere + of our Lorde. + M.D.XLV. + + * * * * * + * * * * + * * * * * + +[Typographic Errors: + arabic numeral = unnumbered page + _v_ = verso (back of page) + +A.5 _v_ + most blessed Testament + _was_ bessed +B.5 _v_ - B.6 + then this || saiyng. + _end of B.5v reads_ sai-/yng _including catchword_ +C.7 _v_ + in too a laughter + _was_ in too a/a laughter _at line break_ +D.7 _v_ + where god is present + _was_ where god is/is present _at line break_ +E.iii + it is no vertue but folishnes: but as often as thei bee punyshed + _was_ it is no-/vertue _at line break_ + _and_ but as of-/often _at line break_ +E.8 _v_ - F.i + rather prouoke euil desires || then remedy them + _end of E.8v reads_ the/reme _including catchword_ +F.i _v_ + to colour and set furth the preceptes + _was_ set-/furth _at line break_ +F.ii _v_ + breuely, there was + _was_ breuely, there/there was _at line break_ + +Irregularities in text (not changed): + +D.5 + the two staues wherevpon age is stayed + _text reads_ ...where-/vpon _at line break_ + +D.6 + oure moost foo & mortal enemie + _unchanged_: ?fool (foul) + + +Mismatched catchwords (text uses second form): + +C.iiii - C.iiii _v_ + [bee] || be +C.7 _v_ - C.8 + [done] || doone +D.iiii _v_ - D.5 + [hym] || it +D.8 - D.8 _v_ + [ioye] || ioy +D.8 _v_ - E.i + [I] || (I... +E.ii _v_ - E.iii + [life] || lyfe +E.iii _v_ - E.iiii + [nowe] || now +E.iiii - E.iiii _v_ + plea-[sure] || sures +E.5 - E.5 _v_ + [fyndeth] || findeth +E.7 - E.7 _v_ + [deyntie] || deintye +F.iiii - F.iiii _v_ + [he] || hee +F.5 - V.5 _v_ + [the] || [ye] ] + + + + + +End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of A Very Pleasaunt & Fruitful Diologe +Called the Epicure, by Desiderius Erasmus + +*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK A VERY PLEASAUNT & FRUITFUL *** + +***** This file should be named 16246.txt or 16246.zip ***** +This and all associated files of various formats will be found in: + https://www.gutenberg.org/1/6/2/4/16246/ + +Produced by David Starner, Louise Hope and the Online +Distributed Proofreading Team at https://www.pgdp.net. + + +Updated editions will replace the previous one--the old editions +will be renamed. + +Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no +one owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation +(and you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without +permission and without paying copyright royalties. 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