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You may copy it, give it away or +re-use it under the terms of the Project Gutenberg License included +with this eBook or online at www.gutenberg.org + + +Title: Protagoras + +Author: Plato + +Translator: B. Jowett + +Release Date: November 3, 2008 [EBook #1591] +Last Updated: January 15, 2013 + +Language: English + +Character set encoding: ASCII + +*** START OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK PROTAGORAS *** + + + + +Produced by Sue Asscher, and David Widger + + + + + +</pre> + <p> + <br /><br /> + </p> + <h1> + PROTAGORAS + </h1> + <p> + <br /> + </p> + <h2> + By Plato + </h2> + <p> + <br /><br /> + </p> + <h3> + Translated by Benjamin Jowett + </h3> + <p> + <br /> <br /> + </p> + <hr /> + <p> + <br /> <br /> + </p> + <h3> + Contents + </h3> + <table summary="" style="margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto"> + <tr> + <td> + <p class="toc"> + <a href="#link2H_INTR"> INTRODUCTION. </a> + </p> + <p class="toc"> + <a href="#link2H_4_0002"> PROTAGORAS </a> + </p> + </td> + </tr> + </table> + <p> + <br /> <br /> + </p> + <hr /> + <p> + <br /> <br /> <a name="link2H_INTR" id="link2H_INTR"> + <!-- H2 anchor --> </a> + </p> + <h2> + INTRODUCTION. + </h2> + <p> + The Protagoras, like several of the Dialogues of Plato, is put into the + mouth of Socrates, who describes a conversation which had taken place + between himself and the great Sophist at the house of Callias—'the + man who had spent more upon the Sophists than all the rest of the world'—and + in which the learned Hippias and the grammarian Prodicus had also shared, + as well as Alcibiades and Critias, both of whom said a few words—in + the presence of a distinguished company consisting of disciples of + Protagoras and of leading Athenians belonging to the Socratic circle. The + dialogue commences with a request on the part of Hippocrates that Socrates + would introduce him to the celebrated teacher. He has come before the dawn + had risen—so fervid is his zeal. Socrates moderates his excitement + and advises him to find out 'what Protagoras will make of him,' before he + becomes his pupil. + </p> + <p> + They go together to the house of Callias; and Socrates, after explaining + the purpose of their visit to Protagoras, asks the question, 'What he will + make of Hippocrates.' Protagoras answers, 'That he will make him a better + and a wiser man.' 'But in what will he be better?'—Socrates desires + to have a more precise answer. Protagoras replies, 'That he will teach him + prudence in affairs private and public; in short, the science or knowledge + of human life.' + </p> + <p> + This, as Socrates admits, is a noble profession; but he is or rather would + have been doubtful, whether such knowledge can be taught, if Protagoras + had not assured him of the fact, for two reasons: (1) Because the Athenian + people, who recognize in their assemblies the distinction between the + skilled and the unskilled in the arts, do not distinguish between the + trained politician and the untrained; (2) Because the wisest and best + Athenian citizens do not teach their sons political virtue. Will + Protagoras answer these objections? + </p> + <p> + Protagoras explains his views in the form of an apologue, in which, after + Prometheus had given men the arts, Zeus is represented as sending Hermes + to them, bearing with him Justice and Reverence. These are not, like the + arts, to be imparted to a few only, but all men are to be partakers of + them. Therefore the Athenian people are right in distinguishing between + the skilled and unskilled in the arts, and not between skilled and + unskilled politicians. (1) For all men have the political virtues to a + certain degree, and are obliged to say that they have them, whether they + have them or not. A man would be thought a madman who professed an art + which he did not know; but he would be equally thought a madman if he did + not profess a virtue which he had not. (2) And that the political virtues + can be taught and acquired, in the opinion of the Athenians, is proved by + the fact that they punish evil-doers, with a view to prevention, of course—mere + retribution is for beasts, and not for men. (3) Again, would parents who + teach her sons lesser matters leave them ignorant of the common duty of + citizens? To the doubt of Socrates the best answer is the fact, that the + education of youth in virtue begins almost as soon as they can speak, and + is continued by the state when they pass out of the parental control. (4) + Nor need we wonder that wise and good fathers sometimes have foolish and + worthless sons. Virtue, as we were saying, is not the private possession + of any man, but is shared by all, only however to the extent of which each + individual is by nature capable. And, as a matter of fact, even the worst + of civilized mankind will appear virtuous and just, if we compare them + with savages. (5) The error of Socrates lies in supposing that there are + no teachers of virtue, whereas all men are teachers in a degree. Some, + like Protagoras, are better than others, and with this result we ought to + be satisfied. + </p> + <p> + Socrates is highly delighted with the explanation of Protagoras. But he + has still a doubt lingering in his mind. Protagoras has spoken of the + virtues: are they many, or one? are they parts of a whole, or different + names of the same thing? Protagoras replies that they are parts, like the + parts of a face, which have their several functions, and no one part is + like any other part. This admission, which has been somewhat hastily made, + is now taken up and cross-examined by Socrates:— + </p> + <p> + 'Is justice just, and is holiness holy? And are justice and holiness + opposed to one another?'—'Then justice is unholy.' Protagoras would + rather say that justice is different from holiness, and yet in a certain + point of view nearly the same. He does not, however, escape in this way + from the cunning of Socrates, who inveigles him into an admission that + everything has but one opposite. Folly, for example, is opposed to wisdom; + and folly is also opposed to temperance; and therefore temperance and + wisdom are the same. And holiness has been already admitted to be nearly + the same as justice. Temperance, therefore, has now to be compared with + justice. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras, whose temper begins to get a little ruffled at the process to + which he has been subjected, is aware that he will soon be compelled by + the dialectics of Socrates to admit that the temperate is the just. He + therefore defends himself with his favourite weapon; that is to say, he + makes a long speech not much to the point, which elicits the applause of + the audience. + </p> + <p> + Here occurs a sort of interlude, which commences with a declaration on the + part of Socrates that he cannot follow a long speech, and therefore he + must beg Protagoras to speak shorter. As Protagoras declines to + accommodate him, he rises to depart, but is detained by Callias, who + thinks him unreasonable in not allowing Protagoras the liberty which he + takes himself of speaking as he likes. But Alcibiades answers that the two + cases are not parallel. For Socrates admits his inability to speak long; + will Protagoras in like manner acknowledge his inability to speak short? + </p> + <p> + Counsels of moderation are urged first in a few words by Critias, and then + by Prodicus in balanced and sententious language: and Hippias proposes an + umpire. But who is to be the umpire? rejoins Socrates; he would rather + suggest as a compromise that Protagoras shall ask and he will answer, and + that when Protagoras is tired of asking he himself will ask and Protagoras + shall answer. To this the latter yields a reluctant assent. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras selects as his thesis a poem of Simonides of Ceos, in which he + professes to find a contradiction. First the poet says, + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + 'Hard is it to become good,' +</pre> + <p> + and then reproaches Pittacus for having said, 'Hard is it to be good.' How + is this to be reconciled? Socrates, who is familiar with the poem, is + embarrassed at first, and invokes the aid of Prodicus, the countryman of + Simonides, but apparently only with the intention of flattering him into + absurdities. First a distinction is drawn between (Greek) to be, and + (Greek) to become: to become good is difficult; to be good is easy. Then + the word difficult or hard is explained to mean 'evil' in the Cean + dialect. To all this Prodicus assents; but when Protagoras reclaims, + Socrates slily withdraws Prodicus from the fray, under the pretence that + his assent was only intended to test the wits of his adversary. He then + proceeds to give another and more elaborate explanation of the whole + passage. The explanation is as follows:— + </p> + <p> + The Lacedaemonians are great philosophers (although this is a fact which + is not generally known); and the soul of their philosophy is brevity, + which was also the style of primitive antiquity and of the seven sages. + Now Pittacus had a saying, 'Hard is it to be good:' and Simonides, who was + jealous of the fame of this saying, wrote a poem which was designed to + controvert it. No, says he, Pittacus; not 'hard to be good,' but 'hard to + become good.' Socrates proceeds to argue in a highly impressive manner + that the whole composition is intended as an attack upon Pittacus. This, + though manifestly absurd, is accepted by the company, and meets with the + special approval of Hippias, who has however a favourite interpretation of + his own, which he is requested by Alcibiades to defer. + </p> + <p> + The argument is now resumed, not without some disdainful remarks of + Socrates on the practice of introducing the poets, who ought not to be + allowed, any more than flute-girls, to come into good society. Men's own + thoughts should supply them with the materials for discussion. A few + soothing flatteries are addressed to Protagoras by Callias and Socrates, + and then the old question is repeated, 'Whether the virtues are one or + many?' To which Protagoras is now disposed to reply, that four out of the + five virtues are in some degree similar; but he still contends that the + fifth, courage, is unlike the rest. Socrates proceeds to undermine the + last stronghold of the adversary, first obtaining from him the admission + that all virtue is in the highest degree good:— + </p> + <p> + The courageous are the confident; and the confident are those who know + their business or profession: those who have no such knowledge and are + still confident are madmen. This is admitted. Then, says Socrates, courage + is knowledge—an inference which Protagoras evades by drawing a + futile distinction between the courageous and the confident in a fluent + speech. + </p> + <p> + Socrates renews the attack from another side: he would like to know + whether pleasure is not the only good, and pain the only evil? Protagoras + seems to doubt the morality or propriety of assenting to this; he would + rather say that 'some pleasures are good, some pains are evil,' which is + also the opinion of the generality of mankind. What does he think of + knowledge? Does he agree with the common opinion that knowledge is + overcome by passion? or does he hold that knowledge is power? Protagoras + agrees that knowledge is certainly a governing power. + </p> + <p> + This, however, is not the doctrine of men in general, who maintain that + many who know what is best, act contrary to their knowledge under the + influence of pleasure. But this opposition of good and evil is really the + opposition of a greater or lesser amount of pleasure. Pleasures are evils + because they end in pain, and pains are goods because they end in + pleasures. Thus pleasure is seen to be the only good; and the only evil is + the preference of the lesser pleasure to the greater. But then comes in + the illusion of distance. Some art of mensuration is required in order to + show us pleasures and pains in their true proportion. This art of + mensuration is a kind of knowledge, and knowledge is thus proved once more + to be the governing principle of human life, and ignorance the origin of + all evil: for no one prefers the less pleasure to the greater, or the + greater pain to the less, except from ignorance. The argument is drawn out + in an imaginary 'dialogue within a dialogue,' conducted by Socrates and + Protagoras on the one part, and the rest of the world on the other. + Hippias and Prodicus, as well as Protagoras, admit the soundness of the + conclusion. + </p> + <p> + Socrates then applies this new conclusion to the case of courage—the + only virtue which still holds out against the assaults of the Socratic + dialectic. No one chooses the evil or refuses the good except through + ignorance. This explains why cowards refuse to go to war:—because + they form a wrong estimate of good, and honour, and pleasure. And why are + the courageous willing to go to war?—because they form a right + estimate of pleasures and pains, of things terrible and not terrible. + Courage then is knowledge, and cowardice is ignorance. And the five + virtues, which were originally maintained to have five different natures, + after having been easily reduced to two only, at last coalesce in one. The + assent of Protagoras to this last position is extracted with great + difficulty. + </p> + <p> + Socrates concludes by professing his disinterested love of the truth, and + remarks on the singular manner in which he and his adversary had changed + sides. Protagoras began by asserting, and Socrates by denying, the + teachableness of virtue, and now the latter ends by affirming that virtue + is knowledge, which is the most teachable of all things, while Protagoras + has been striving to show that virtue is not knowledge, and this is almost + equivalent to saying that virtue cannot be taught. He is not satisfied + with the result, and would like to renew the enquiry with the help of + Protagoras in a different order, asking (1) What virtue is, and (2) + Whether virtue can be taught. Protagoras declines this offer, but commends + Socrates' earnestness and his style of discussion. + </p> + <p> + The Protagoras is often supposed to be full of difficulties. These are + partly imaginary and partly real. The imaginary ones are (1) + Chronological,—which were pointed out in ancient times by Athenaeus, + and are noticed by Schleiermacher and others, and relate to the + impossibility of all the persons in the Dialogue meeting at any one time, + whether in the year 425 B.C., or in any other. But Plato, like all writers + of fiction, aims only at the probable, and shows in many Dialogues (e.g. + the Symposium and Republic, and already in the Laches) an extreme + disregard of the historical accuracy which is sometimes demanded of him. + (2) The exact place of the Protagoras among the Dialogues, and the date of + composition, have also been much disputed. But there are no criteria which + afford any real grounds for determining the date of composition; and the + affinities of the Dialogues, when they are not indicated by Plato himself, + must always to a great extent remain uncertain. (3) There is another class + of difficulties, which may be ascribed to preconceived notions of + commentators, who imagine that Protagoras the Sophist ought always to be + in the wrong, and his adversary Socrates in the right; or that in this or + that passage—e.g. in the explanation of good as pleasure—Plato + is inconsistent with himself; or that the Dialogue fails in unity, and has + not a proper beginning, middle, and ending. They seem to forget that Plato + is a dramatic writer who throws his thoughts into both sides of the + argument, and certainly does not aim at any unity which is inconsistent + with freedom, and with a natural or even wild manner of treating his + subject; also that his mode of revealing the truth is by lights and + shadows, and far-off and opposing points of view, and not by dogmatic + statements or definite results. + </p> + <p> + The real difficulties arise out of the extreme subtlety of the work, + which, as Socrates says of the poem of Simonides, is a most perfect piece + of art. There are dramatic contrasts and interests, threads of philosophy + broken and resumed, satirical reflections on mankind, veils thrown over + truths which are lightly suggested, and all woven together in a single + design, and moving towards one end. + </p> + <p> + In the introductory scene Plato raises the expectation that a 'great + personage' is about to appear on the stage; perhaps with a further view of + showing that he is destined to be overthrown by a greater still, who makes + no pretensions. Before introducing Hippocrates to him, Socrates thinks + proper to warn the youth against the dangers of 'influence,' of which the + invidious nature is recognized by Protagoras himself. Hippocrates readily + adopts the suggestion of Socrates that he shall learn of Protagoras only + the accomplishments which befit an Athenian gentleman, and let alone his + 'sophistry.' There is nothing however in the introduction which leads to + the inference that Plato intended to blacken the character of the + Sophists; he only makes a little merry at their expense. + </p> + <p> + The 'great personage' is somewhat ostentatious, but frank and honest. He + is introduced on a stage which is worthy of him—at the house of the + rich Callias, in which are congregated the noblest and wisest of the + Athenians. He considers openness to be the best policy, and particularly + mentions his own liberal mode of dealing with his pupils, as if in answer + to the favourite accusation of the Sophists that they received pay. He is + remarkable for the good temper which he exhibits throughout the discussion + under the trying and often sophistical cross-examination of Socrates. + Although once or twice ruffled, and reluctant to continue the discussion, + he parts company on perfectly good terms, and appears to be, as he says of + himself, the 'least jealous of mankind.' + </p> + <p> + Nor is there anything in the sentiments of Protagoras which impairs this + pleasing impression of the grave and weighty old man. His real defect is + that he is inferior to Socrates in dialectics. The opposition between him + and Socrates is not the opposition of good and bad, true and false, but of + the old art of rhetoric and the new science of interrogation and argument; + also of the irony of Socrates and the self-assertion of the Sophists. + There is quite as much truth on the side of Protagoras as of Socrates; but + the truth of Protagoras is based on common sense and common maxims of + morality, while that of Socrates is paradoxical or transcendental, and + though full of meaning and insight, hardly intelligible to the rest of + mankind. Here as elsewhere is the usual contrast between the Sophists + representing average public opinion and Socrates seeking for increased + clearness and unity of ideas. But to a great extent Protagoras has the + best of the argument and represents the better mind of man. + </p> + <p> + For example: (1) one of the noblest statements to be found in antiquity + about the preventive nature of punishment is put into his mouth; (2) he is + clearly right also in maintaining that virtue can be taught (which + Socrates himself, at the end of the Dialogue, is disposed to concede); and + also (3) in his explanation of the phenomenon that good fathers have bad + sons; (4) he is right also in observing that the virtues are not like the + arts, gifts or attainments of special individuals, but the common property + of all: this, which in all ages has been the strength and weakness of + ethics and politics, is deeply seated in human nature; (5) there is a sort + of half-truth in the notion that all civilized men are teachers of virtue; + and more than a half-truth (6) in ascribing to man, who in his outward + conditions is more helpless than the other animals, the power of + self-improvement; (7) the religious allegory should be noticed, in which + the arts are said to be given by Prometheus (who stole them), whereas + justice and reverence and the political virtues could only be imparted by + Zeus; (8) in the latter part of the Dialogue, when Socrates is arguing + that 'pleasure is the only good,' Protagoras deems it more in accordance + with his character to maintain that 'some pleasures only are good;' and + admits that 'he, above all other men, is bound to say "that wisdom and + knowledge are the highest of human things."' + </p> + <p> + There is no reason to suppose that in all this Plato is depicting an + imaginary Protagoras; he seems to be showing us the teaching of the + Sophists under the milder aspect under which he once regarded them. Nor is + there any reason to doubt that Socrates is equally an historical + character, paradoxical, ironical, tiresome, but seeking for the unity of + virtue and knowledge as for a precious treasure; willing to rest this even + on a calculation of pleasure, and irresistible here, as everywhere in + Plato, in his intellectual superiority. + </p> + <p> + The aim of Socrates, and of the Dialogue, is to show the unity of virtue. + In the determination of this question the identity of virtue and knowledge + is found to be involved. But if virtue and knowledge are one, then virtue + can be taught; the end of the Dialogue returns to the beginning. Had + Protagoras been allowed by Plato to make the Aristotelian distinction, and + say that virtue is not knowledge, but is accompanied with knowledge; or to + point out with Aristotle that the same quality may have more than one + opposite; or with Plato himself in the Phaedo to deny that good is a mere + exchange of a greater pleasure for a less—the unity of virtue and + the identity of virtue and knowledge would have required to be proved by + other arguments. + </p> + <p> + The victory of Socrates over Protagoras is in every way complete when + their minds are fairly brought together. Protagoras falls before him after + two or three blows. Socrates partially gains his object in the first part + of the Dialogue, and completely in the second. Nor does he appear at any + disadvantage when subjected to 'the question' by Protagoras. He succeeds + in making his two 'friends,' Prodicus and Hippias, ludicrous by the way; + he also makes a long speech in defence of the poem of Simonides, after the + manner of the Sophists, showing, as Alcibiades says, that he is only + pretending to have a bad memory, and that he and not Protagoras is really + a master in the two styles of speaking; and that he can undertake, not one + side of the argument only, but both, when Protagoras begins to break down. + Against the authority of the poets with whom Protagoras has ingeniously + identified himself at the commencement of the Dialogue, Socrates sets up + the proverbial philosophers and those masters of brevity the + Lacedaemonians. The poets, the Laconizers, and Protagoras are satirized at + the same time. + </p> + <p> + Not having the whole of this poem before us, it is impossible for us to + answer certainly the question of Protagoras, how the two passages of + Simonides are to be reconciled. We can only follow the indications given + by Plato himself. But it seems likely that the reconcilement offered by + Socrates is a caricature of the methods of interpretation which were + practised by the Sophists—for the following reasons: (1) The + transparent irony of the previous interpretations given by Socrates. (2) + The ludicrous opening of the speech in which the Lacedaemonians are + described as the true philosophers, and Laconic brevity as the true form + of philosophy, evidently with an allusion to Protagoras' long speeches. + (3) The manifest futility and absurdity of the explanation of (Greek), + which is hardly consistent with the rational interpretation of the rest of + the poem. The opposition of (Greek) and (Greek) seems also intended to + express the rival doctrines of Socrates and Protagoras, and is a facetious + commentary on their differences. (4) The general treatment in Plato both + of the Poets and the Sophists, who are their interpreters, and whom he + delights to identify with them. (5) The depreciating spirit in which + Socrates speaks of the introduction of the poets as a substitute for + original conversation, which is intended to contrast with Protagoras' + exaltation of the study of them—this again is hardly consistent with + the serious defence of Simonides. (6) the marked approval of Hippias, who + is supposed at once to catch the familiar sound, just as in the previous + conversation Prodicus is represented as ready to accept any distinctions + of language however absurd. At the same time Hippias is desirous of + substituting a new interpretation of his own; as if the words might really + be made to mean anything, and were only to be regarded as affording a + field for the ingenuity of the interpreter. + </p> + <p> + This curious passage is, therefore, to be regarded as Plato's satire on + the tedious and hypercritical arts of interpretation which prevailed in + his own day, and may be compared with his condemnation of the same arts + when applied to mythology in the Phaedrus, and with his other parodies, + e.g. with the two first speeches in the Phaedrus and with the Menexenus. + Several lesser touches of satire may be observed, such as the claim of + philosophy advanced for the Lacedaemonians, which is a parody of the + claims advanced for the Poets by Protagoras; the mistake of the Laconizing + set in supposing that the Lacedaemonians are a great nation because they + bruise their ears; the far-fetched notion, which is 'really too bad,' that + Simonides uses the Lesbian (?) word, (Greek), because he is addressing a + Lesbian. The whole may also be considered as a satire on those who spin + pompous theories out of nothing. As in the arguments of the Euthydemus and + of the Cratylus, the veil of irony is never withdrawn; and we are left in + doubt at last how far in this interpretation of Simonides Socrates is + 'fooling,' how far he is in earnest. + </p> + <p> + All the interests and contrasts of character in a great dramatic work like + the Protagoras are not easily exhausted. The impressiveness of the scene + should not be lost upon us, or the gradual substitution of Socrates in the + second part for Protagoras in the first. The characters to whom we are + introduced at the beginning of the Dialogue all play a part more or less + conspicuous towards the end. There is Alcibiades, who is compelled by the + necessity of his nature to be a partisan, lending effectual aid to + Socrates; there is Critias assuming the tone of impartiality; Callias, + here as always inclining to the Sophists, but eager for any intellectual + repast; Prodicus, who finds an opportunity for displaying his distinctions + of language, which are valueless and pedantic, because they are not based + on dialectic; Hippias, who has previously exhibited his superficial + knowledge of natural philosophy, to which, as in both the Dialogues called + by his name, he now adds the profession of an interpreter of the Poets. + The two latter personages have been already damaged by the mock heroic + description of them in the introduction. It may be remarked that + Protagoras is consistently presented to us throughout as the teacher of + moral and political virtue; there is no allusion to the theories of + sensation which are attributed to him in the Theaetetus and elsewhere, or + to his denial of the existence of the gods in a well-known fragment + ascribed to him; he is the religious rather than the irreligious teacher + in this Dialogue. Also it may be observed that Socrates shows him as much + respect as is consistent with his own ironical character; he admits that + the dialectic which has overthrown Protagoras has carried himself round to + a conclusion opposed to his first thesis. The force of argument, + therefore, and not Socrates or Protagoras, has won the day. + </p> + <p> + But is Socrates serious in maintaining (1) that virtue cannot be taught; + (2) that the virtues are one; (3) that virtue is the knowledge of + pleasures and pains present and future? These propositions to us have an + appearance of paradox—they are really moments or aspects of the + truth by the help of which we pass from the old conventional morality to a + higher conception of virtue and knowledge. That virtue cannot be taught is + a paradox of the same sort as the profession of Socrates that he knew + nothing. Plato means to say that virtue is not brought to a man, but must + be drawn out of him; and cannot be taught by rhetorical discourses or + citations from the poets. The second question, whether the virtues are one + or many, though at first sight distinct, is really a part of the same + subject; for if the virtues are to be taught, they must be reducible to a + common principle; and this common principle is found to be knowledge. + Here, as Aristotle remarks, Socrates and Plato outstep the truth—they + make a part of virtue into the whole. Further, the nature of this + knowledge, which is assumed to be a knowledge of pleasures and pains, + appears to us too superficial and at variance with the spirit of Plato + himself. Yet, in this, Plato is only following the historical Socrates as + he is depicted to us in Xenophon's Memorabilia. Like Socrates, he finds on + the surface of human life one common bond by which the virtues are united,—their + tendency to produce happiness,—though such a principle is afterwards + repudiated by him. + </p> + <p> + It remains to be considered in what relation the Protagoras stands to the + other Dialogues of Plato. That it is one of the earlier or purely Socratic + works—perhaps the last, as it is certainly the greatest of them—is + indicated by the absence of any allusion to the doctrine of reminiscence; + and also by the different attitude assumed towards the teaching and + persons of the Sophists in some of the later Dialogues. The Charmides, + Laches, Lysis, all touch on the question of the relation of knowledge to + virtue, and may be regarded, if not as preliminary studies or sketches of + the more important work, at any rate as closely connected with it. The Io + and the lesser Hippias contain discussions of the Poets, which offer a + parallel to the ironical criticism of Simonides, and are conceived in a + similar spirit. The affinity of the Protagoras to the Meno is more + doubtful. For there, although the same question is discussed, 'whether + virtue can be taught,' and the relation of Meno to the Sophists is much + the same as that of Hippocrates, the answer to the question is supplied + out of the doctrine of ideas; the real Socrates is already passing into + the Platonic one. At a later stage of the Platonic philosophy we shall + find that both the paradox and the solution of it appear to have been + retracted. The Phaedo, the Gorgias, and the Philebus offer further + corrections of the teaching of the Protagoras; in all of them the doctrine + that virtue is pleasure, or that pleasure is the chief or only good, is + distinctly renounced. + </p> + <p> + Thus after many preparations and oppositions, both of the characters of + men and aspects of the truth, especially of the popular and philosophical + aspect; and after many interruptions and detentions by the way, which, as + Theodorus says in the Theaetetus, are quite as agreeable as the argument, + we arrive at the great Socratic thesis that virtue is knowledge. This is + an aspect of the truth which was lost almost as soon as it was found; and + yet has to be recovered by every one for himself who would pass the limits + of proverbial and popular philosophy. The moral and intellectual are + always dividing, yet they must be reunited, and in the highest conception + of them are inseparable. The thesis of Socrates is not merely a hasty + assumption, but may be also deemed an anticipation of some 'metaphysic of + the future,' in which the divided elements of human nature are reconciled. + </p> + <p> + <a name="link2H_4_0002" id="link2H_4_0002"> + <!-- H2 anchor --> </a> + </p> + <div style="height: 4em;"> + <br /><br /><br /><br /> + </div> + <h2> + PROTAGORAS + </h2> + <p> + PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, who is the narrator of the Dialogue to + his Companion. Hippocrates, Alcibiades and Critias. Protagoras, Hippias + and Prodicus (Sophists). Callias, a wealthy Athenian. + </p> + <p> + SCENE: The House of Callias. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: Where do you come from, Socrates? And yet I need hardly ask the + question, for I know that you have been in chase of the fair Alcibiades. I + saw him the day before yesterday; and he had got a beard like a man,—and + he is a man, as I may tell you in your ear. But I thought that he was + still very charming. + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: What of his beard? Are you not of Homer's opinion, who says + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + 'Youth is most charming when the beard first appears'? +</pre> + <p> + And that is now the charm of Alcibiades. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: Well, and how do matters proceed? Have you been visiting him, + and was he gracious to you? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: Yes, I thought that he was very gracious; and especially to-day, + for I have just come from him, and he has been helping me in an argument. + But shall I tell you a strange thing? I paid no attention to him, and + several times I quite forgot that he was present. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: What is the meaning of this? Has anything happened between you + and him? For surely you cannot have discovered a fairer love than he is; + certainly not in this city of Athens. + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: Yes, much fairer. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: What do you mean—a citizen or a foreigner? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: A foreigner. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: Of what country? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: Of Abdera. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: And is this stranger really in your opinion a fairer love than + the son of Cleinias? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: And is not the wiser always the fairer, sweet friend? + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: But have you really met, Socrates, with some wise one? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: Say rather, with the wisest of all living men, if you are + willing to accord that title to Protagoras. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: What! Is Protagoras in Athens? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: Yes; he has been here two days. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: And do you just come from an interview with him? + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: Yes; and I have heard and said many things. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: Then, if you have no engagement, suppose that you sit down and + tell me what passed, and my attendant here shall give up his place to you. + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: To be sure; and I shall be grateful to you for listening. + </p> + <p> + COMPANION: Thank you, too, for telling us. + </p> + <p> + SOCRATES: That is thank you twice over. Listen then:— + </p> + <p> + Last night, or rather very early this morning, Hippocrates, the son of + Apollodorus and the brother of Phason, gave a tremendous thump with his + staff at my door; some one opened to him, and he came rushing in and + bawled out: Socrates, are you awake or asleep? + </p> + <p> + I knew his voice, and said: Hippocrates, is that you? and do you bring any + news? + </p> + <p> + Good news, he said; nothing but good. + </p> + <p> + Delightful, I said; but what is the news? and why have you come hither at + this unearthly hour? + </p> + <p> + He drew nearer to me and said: Protagoras is come. + </p> + <p> + Yes, I replied; he came two days ago: have you only just heard of his + arrival? + </p> + <p> + Yes, by the gods, he said; but not until yesterday evening. + </p> + <p> + At the same time he felt for the truckle-bed, and sat down at my feet, and + then he said: Yesterday quite late in the evening, on my return from Oenoe + whither I had gone in pursuit of my runaway slave Satyrus, as I meant to + have told you, if some other matter had not come in the way;—on my + return, when we had done supper and were about to retire to rest, my + brother said to me: Protagoras is come. I was going to you at once, and + then I thought that the night was far spent. But the moment sleep left me + after my fatigue, I got up and came hither direct. + </p> + <p> + I, who knew the very courageous madness of the man, said: What is the + matter? Has Protagoras robbed you of anything? + </p> + <p> + He replied, laughing: Yes, indeed he has, Socrates, of the wisdom which he + keeps from me. + </p> + <p> + But, surely, I said, if you give him money, and make friends with him, he + will make you as wise as he is himself. + </p> + <p> + Would to heaven, he replied, that this were the case! He might take all + that I have, and all that my friends have, if he pleased. But that is why + I have come to you now, in order that you may speak to him on my behalf; + for I am young, and also I have never seen nor heard him; (when he visited + Athens before I was but a child;) and all men praise him, Socrates; he is + reputed to be the most accomplished of speakers. There is no reason why we + should not go to him at once, and then we shall find him at home. He + lodges, as I hear, with Callias the son of Hipponicus: let us start. + </p> + <p> + I replied: Not yet, my good friend; the hour is too early. But let us rise + and take a turn in the court and wait about there until day-break; when + the day breaks, then we will go. For Protagoras is generally at home, and + we shall be sure to find him; never fear. + </p> + <p> + Upon this we got up and walked about in the court, and I thought that I + would make trial of the strength of his resolution. So I examined him and + put questions to him. Tell me, Hippocrates, I said, as you are going to + Protagoras, and will be paying your money to him, what is he to whom you + are going? and what will he make of you? If, for example, you had thought + of going to Hippocrates of Cos, the Asclepiad, and were about to give him + your money, and some one had said to you: You are paying money to your + namesake Hippocrates, O Hippocrates; tell me, what is he that you give him + money? how would you have answered? + </p> + <p> + I should say, he replied, that I gave money to him as a physician. + </p> + <p> + And what will he make of you? + </p> + <p> + A physician, he said. + </p> + <p> + And if you were resolved to go to Polycleitus the Argive, or Pheidias the + Athenian, and were intending to give them money, and some one had asked + you: What are Polycleitus and Pheidias? and why do you give them this + money?—how would you have answered? + </p> + <p> + I should have answered, that they were statuaries. + </p> + <p> + And what will they make of you? + </p> + <p> + A statuary, of course. + </p> + <p> + Well now, I said, you and I are going to Protagoras, and we are ready to + pay him money on your behalf. If our own means are sufficient, and we can + gain him with these, we shall be only too glad; but if not, then we are to + spend the money of your friends as well. Now suppose, that while we are + thus enthusiastically pursuing our object some one were to say to us: Tell + me, Socrates, and you Hippocrates, what is Protagoras, and why are you + going to pay him money,—how should we answer? I know that Pheidias + is a sculptor, and that Homer is a poet; but what appellation is given to + Protagoras? how is he designated? + </p> + <p> + They call him a Sophist, Socrates, he replied. + </p> + <p> + Then we are going to pay our money to him in the character of a Sophist? + </p> + <p> + Certainly. + </p> + <p> + But suppose a person were to ask this further question: And how about + yourself? What will Protagoras make of you, if you go to see him? + </p> + <p> + He answered, with a blush upon his face (for the day was just beginning to + dawn, so that I could see him): Unless this differs in some way from the + former instances, I suppose that he will make a Sophist of me. + </p> + <p> + By the gods, I said, and are you not ashamed at having to appear before + the Hellenes in the character of a Sophist? + </p> + <p> + Indeed, Socrates, to confess the truth, I am. + </p> + <p> + But you should not assume, Hippocrates, that the instruction of Protagoras + is of this nature: may you not learn of him in the same way that you + learned the arts of the grammarian, or musician, or trainer, not with the + view of making any of them a profession, but only as a part of education, + and because a private gentleman and freeman ought to know them? + </p> + <p> + Just so, he said; and that, in my opinion, is a far truer account of the + teaching of Protagoras. + </p> + <p> + I said: I wonder whether you know what you are doing? + </p> + <p> + And what am I doing? + </p> + <p> + You are going to commit your soul to the care of a man whom you call a + Sophist. And yet I hardly think that you know what a Sophist is; and if + not, then you do not even know to whom you are committing your soul and + whether the thing to which you commit yourself be good or evil. + </p> + <p> + I certainly think that I do know, he replied. + </p> + <p> + Then tell me, what do you imagine that he is? + </p> + <p> + I take him to be one who knows wise things, he replied, as his name + implies. + </p> + <p> + And might you not, I said, affirm this of the painter and of the carpenter + also: Do not they, too, know wise things? But suppose a person were to ask + us: In what are the painters wise? We should answer: In what relates to + the making of likenesses, and similarly of other things. And if he were + further to ask: What is the wisdom of the Sophist, and what is the + manufacture over which he presides?—how should we answer him? + </p> + <p> + How should we answer him, Socrates? What other answer could there be but + that he presides over the art which makes men eloquent? + </p> + <p> + Yes, I replied, that is very likely true, but not enough; for in the + answer a further question is involved: Of what does the Sophist make a man + talk eloquently? The player on the lyre may be supposed to make a man talk + eloquently about that which he makes him understand, that is about playing + the lyre. Is not that true? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + Then about what does the Sophist make him eloquent? Must not he make him + eloquent in that which he understands? + </p> + <p> + Yes, that may be assumed. + </p> + <p> + And what is that which the Sophist knows and makes his disciple know? + </p> + <p> + Indeed, he said, I cannot tell. + </p> + <p> + Then I proceeded to say: Well, but are you aware of the danger which you + are incurring? If you were going to commit your body to some one, who + might do good or harm to it, would you not carefully consider and ask the + opinion of your friends and kindred, and deliberate many days as to + whether you should give him the care of your body? But when the soul is in + question, which you hold to be of far more value than the body, and upon + the good or evil of which depends the well-being of your all,—about + this you never consulted either with your father or with your brother or + with any one of us who are your companions. But no sooner does this + foreigner appear, than you instantly commit your soul to his keeping. In + the evening, as you say, you hear of him, and in the morning you go to + him, never deliberating or taking the opinion of any one as to whether you + ought to intrust yourself to him or not;—you have quite made up your + mind that you will at all hazards be a pupil of Protagoras, and are + prepared to expend all the property of yourself and of your friends in + carrying out at any price this determination, although, as you admit, you + do not know him, and have never spoken with him: and you call him a + Sophist, but are manifestly ignorant of what a Sophist is; and yet you are + going to commit yourself to his keeping. + </p> + <p> + When he heard me say this, he replied: No other inference, Socrates, can + be drawn from your words. + </p> + <p> + I proceeded: Is not a Sophist, Hippocrates, one who deals wholesale or + retail in the food of the soul? To me that appears to be his nature. + </p> + <p> + And what, Socrates, is the food of the soul? + </p> + <p> + Surely, I said, knowledge is the food of the soul; and we must take care, + my friend, that the Sophist does not deceive us when he praises what he + sells, like the dealers wholesale or retail who sell the food of the body; + for they praise indiscriminately all their goods, without knowing what are + really beneficial or hurtful: neither do their customers know, with the + exception of any trainer or physician who may happen to buy of them. In + like manner those who carry about the wares of knowledge, and make the + round of the cities, and sell or retail them to any customer who is in + want of them, praise them all alike; though I should not wonder, O my + friend, if many of them were really ignorant of their effect upon the + soul; and their customers equally ignorant, unless he who buys of them + happens to be a physician of the soul. If, therefore, you have + understanding of what is good and evil, you may safely buy knowledge of + Protagoras or of any one; but if not, then, O my friend, pause, and do not + hazard your dearest interests at a game of chance. For there is far + greater peril in buying knowledge than in buying meat and drink: the one + you purchase of the wholesale or retail dealer, and carry them away in + other vessels, and before you receive them into the body as food, you may + deposit them at home and call in any experienced friend who knows what is + good to be eaten or drunken, and what not, and how much, and when; and + then the danger of purchasing them is not so great. But you cannot buy the + wares of knowledge and carry them away in another vessel; when you have + paid for them you must receive them into the soul and go your way, either + greatly harmed or greatly benefited; and therefore we should deliberate + and take counsel with our elders; for we are still young—too young + to determine such a matter. And now let us go, as we were intending, and + hear Protagoras; and when we have heard what he has to say, we may take + counsel of others; for not only is Protagoras at the house of Callias, but + there is Hippias of Elis, and, if I am not mistaken, Prodicus of Ceos, and + several other wise men. + </p> + <p> + To this we agreed, and proceeded on our way until we reached the vestibule + of the house; and there we stopped in order to conclude a discussion which + had arisen between us as we were going along; and we stood talking in the + vestibule until we had finished and come to an understanding. And I think + that the door-keeper, who was a eunuch, and who was probably annoyed at + the great inroad of the Sophists, must have heard us talking. At any rate, + when we knocked at the door, and he opened and saw us, he grumbled: They + are Sophists—he is not at home; and instantly gave the door a hearty + bang with both his hands. Again we knocked, and he answered without + opening: Did you not hear me say that he is not at home, fellows? But, my + friend, I said, you need not be alarmed; for we are not Sophists, and we + are not come to see Callias, but we want to see Protagoras; and I must + request you to announce us. At last, after a good deal of difficulty, the + man was persuaded to open the door. + </p> + <p> + When we entered, we found Protagoras taking a walk in the cloister; and + next to him, on one side, were walking Callias, the son of Hipponicus, and + Paralus, the son of Pericles, who, by the mother's side, is his + half-brother, and Charmides, the son of Glaucon. On the other side of him + were Xanthippus, the other son of Pericles, Philippides, the son of + Philomelus; also Antimoerus of Mende, who of all the disciples of + Protagoras is the most famous, and intends to make sophistry his + profession. A train of listeners followed him; the greater part of them + appeared to be foreigners, whom Protagoras had brought with him out of the + various cities visited by him in his journeys, he, like Orpheus, + attracting them his voice, and they following (Compare Rep.). I should + mention also that there were some Athenians in the company. Nothing + delighted me more than the precision of their movements: they never got + into his way at all; but when he and those who were with him turned back, + then the band of listeners parted regularly on either side; he was always + in front, and they wheeled round and took their places behind him in + perfect order. + </p> + <p> + After him, as Homer says (Od.), 'I lifted up my eyes and saw' Hippias the + Elean sitting in the opposite cloister on a chair of state, and around him + were seated on benches Eryximachus, the son of Acumenus, and Phaedrus the + Myrrhinusian, and Andron the son of Androtion, and there were strangers + whom he had brought with him from his native city of Elis, and some + others: they were putting to Hippias certain physical and astronomical + questions, and he, ex cathedra, was determining their several questions to + them, and discoursing of them. + </p> + <p> + Also, 'my eyes beheld Tantalus (Od.);' for Prodicus the Cean was at + Athens: he had been lodged in a room which, in the days of Hipponicus, was + a storehouse; but, as the house was full, Callias had cleared this out and + made the room into a guest-chamber. Now Prodicus was still in bed, wrapped + up in sheepskins and bedclothes, of which there seemed to be a great heap; + and there was sitting by him on the couches near, Pausanias of the deme of + Cerameis, and with Pausanias was a youth quite young, who is certainly + remarkable for his good looks, and, if I am not mistaken, is also of a + fair and gentle nature. I thought that I heard him called Agathon, and my + suspicion is that he is the beloved of Pausanias. There was this youth, + and also there were the two Adeimantuses, one the son of Cepis, and the + other of Leucolophides, and some others. I was very anxious to hear what + Prodicus was saying, for he seems to me to be an all-wise and inspired + man; but I was not able to get into the inner circle, and his fine deep + voice made an echo in the room which rendered his words inaudible. + </p> + <p> + No sooner had we entered than there followed us Alcibiades the beautiful, + as you say, and I believe you; and also Critias the son of Callaeschrus. + </p> + <p> + On entering we stopped a little, in order to look about us, and then + walked up to Protagoras, and I said: Protagoras, my friend Hippocrates and + I have come to see you. + </p> + <p> + Do you wish, he said, to speak with me alone, or in the presence of the + company? + </p> + <p> + Whichever you please, I said; you shall determine when you have heard the + purpose of our visit. + </p> + <p> + And what is your purpose? he said. + </p> + <p> + I must explain, I said, that my friend Hippocrates is a native Athenian; + he is the son of Apollodorus, and of a great and prosperous house, and he + is himself in natural ability quite a match for anybody of his own age. I + believe that he aspires to political eminence; and this he thinks that + conversation with you is most likely to procure for him. And now you can + determine whether you would wish to speak to him of your teaching alone or + in the presence of the company. + </p> + <p> + Thank you, Socrates, for your consideration of me. For certainly a + stranger finding his way into great cities, and persuading the flower of + the youth in them to leave company of their kinsmen or any other + acquaintances, old or young, and live with him, under the idea that they + will be improved by his conversation, ought to be very cautious; great + jealousies are aroused by his proceedings, and he is the subject of many + enmities and conspiracies. Now the art of the Sophist is, as I believe, of + great antiquity; but in ancient times those who practised it, fearing this + odium, veiled and disguised themselves under various names, some under + that of poets, as Homer, Hesiod, and Simonides, some, of hierophants and + prophets, as Orpheus and Musaeus, and some, as I observe, even under the + name of gymnastic-masters, like Iccus of Tarentum, or the more recently + celebrated Herodicus, now of Selymbria and formerly of Megara, who is a + first-rate Sophist. Your own Agathocles pretended to be a musician, but + was really an eminent Sophist; also Pythocleides the Cean; and there were + many others; and all of them, as I was saying, adopted these arts as veils + or disguises because they were afraid of the odium which they would incur. + But that is not my way, for I do not believe that they effected their + purpose, which was to deceive the government, who were not blinded by + them; and as to the people, they have no understanding, and only repeat + what their rulers are pleased to tell them. Now to run away, and to be + caught in running away, is the very height of folly, and also greatly + increases the exasperation of mankind; for they regard him who runs away + as a rogue, in addition to any other objections which they have to him; + and therefore I take an entirely opposite course, and acknowledge myself + to be a Sophist and instructor of mankind; such an open acknowledgement + appears to me to be a better sort of caution than concealment. Nor do I + neglect other precautions, and therefore I hope, as I may say, by the + favour of heaven that no harm will come of the acknowledgment that I am a + Sophist. And I have been now many years in the profession—for all my + years when added up are many: there is no one here present of whom I might + not be the father. Wherefore I should much prefer conversing with you, if + you want to speak with me, in the presence of the company. + </p> + <p> + As I suspected that he would like to have a little display and + glorification in the presence of Prodicus and Hippias, and would gladly + show us to them in the light of his admirers, I said: But why should we + not summon Prodicus and Hippias and their friends to hear us? + </p> + <p> + Very good, he said. + </p> + <p> + Suppose, said Callias, that we hold a council in which you may sit and + discuss.—This was agreed upon, and great delight was felt at the + prospect of hearing wise men talk; we ourselves took the chairs and + benches, and arranged them by Hippias, where the other benches had been + already placed. Meanwhile Callias and Alcibiades got Prodicus out of bed + and brought in him and his companions. + </p> + <p> + When we were all seated, Protagoras said: Now that the company are + assembled, Socrates, tell me about the young man of whom you were just now + speaking. + </p> + <p> + I replied: I will begin again at the same point, Protagoras, and tell you + once more the purport of my visit: this is my friend Hippocrates, who is + desirous of making your acquaintance; he would like to know what will + happen to him if he associates with you. I have no more to say. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras answered: Young man, if you associate with me, on the very + first day you will return home a better man than you came, and better on + the second day than on the first, and better every day than you were on + the day before. + </p> + <p> + When I heard this, I said: Protagoras, I do not at all wonder at hearing + you say this; even at your age, and with all your wisdom, if any one were + to teach you what you did not know before, you would become better no + doubt: but please to answer in a different way—I will explain how by + an example. Let me suppose that Hippocrates, instead of desiring your + acquaintance, wished to become acquainted with the young man Zeuxippus of + Heraclea, who has lately been in Athens, and he had come to him as he has + come to you, and had heard him say, as he has heard you say, that every + day he would grow and become better if he associated with him: and then + suppose that he were to ask him, 'In what shall I become better, and in + what shall I grow?'—Zeuxippus would answer, 'In painting.' And + suppose that he went to Orthagoras the Theban, and heard him say the same + thing, and asked him, 'In what shall I become better day by day?' he would + reply, 'In flute-playing.' Now I want you to make the same sort of answer + to this young man and to me, who am asking questions on his account. When + you say that on the first day on which he associates with you he will + return home a better man, and on every day will grow in like manner,—in + what, Protagoras, will he be better? and about what? + </p> + <p> + When Protagoras heard me say this, he replied: You ask questions fairly, + and I like to answer a question which is fairly put. If Hippocrates comes + to me he will not experience the sort of drudgery with which other + Sophists are in the habit of insulting their pupils; who, when they have + just escaped from the arts, are taken and driven back into them by these + teachers, and made to learn calculation, and astronomy, and geometry, and + music (he gave a look at Hippias as he said this); but if he comes to me, + he will learn that which he comes to learn. And this is prudence in + affairs private as well as public; he will learn to order his own house in + the best manner, and he will be able to speak and act for the best in the + affairs of the state. + </p> + <p> + Do I understand you, I said; and is your meaning that you teach the art of + politics, and that you promise to make men good citizens? + </p> + <p> + That, Socrates, is exactly the profession which I make. + </p> + <p> + Then, I said, you do indeed possess a noble art, if there is no mistake + about this; for I will freely confess to you, Protagoras, that I have a + doubt whether this art is capable of being taught, and yet I know not how + to disbelieve your assertion. And I ought to tell you why I am of opinion + that this art cannot be taught or communicated by man to man. I say that + the Athenians are an understanding people, and indeed they are esteemed to + be such by the other Hellenes. Now I observe that when we are met together + in the assembly, and the matter in hand relates to building, the builders + are summoned as advisers; when the question is one of ship-building, then + the ship-wrights; and the like of other arts which they think capable of + being taught and learned. And if some person offers to give them advice + who is not supposed by them to have any skill in the art, even though he + be good-looking, and rich, and noble, they will not listen to him, but + laugh and hoot at him, until either he is clamoured down and retires of + himself; or if he persist, he is dragged away or put out by the constables + at the command of the prytanes. This is their way of behaving about + professors of the arts. But when the question is an affair of state, then + everybody is free to have a say—carpenter, tinker, cobbler, sailor, + passenger; rich and poor, high and low—any one who likes gets up, + and no one reproaches him, as in the former case, with not having learned, + and having no teacher, and yet giving advice; evidently because they are + under the impression that this sort of knowledge cannot be taught. And not + only is this true of the state, but of individuals; the best and wisest of + our citizens are unable to impart their political wisdom to others: as for + example, Pericles, the father of these young men, who gave them excellent + instruction in all that could be learned from masters, in his own + department of politics neither taught them, nor gave them teachers; but + they were allowed to wander at their own free will in a sort of hope that + they would light upon virtue of their own accord. Or take another example: + there was Cleinias the younger brother of our friend Alcibiades, of whom + this very same Pericles was the guardian; and he being in fact under the + apprehension that Cleinias would be corrupted by Alcibiades, took him + away, and placed him in the house of Ariphron to be educated; but before + six months had elapsed, Ariphron sent him back, not knowing what to do + with him. And I could mention numberless other instances of persons who + were good themselves, and never yet made any one else good, whether friend + or stranger. Now I, Protagoras, having these examples before me, am + inclined to think that virtue cannot be taught. But then again, when I + listen to your words, I waver; and am disposed to think that there must be + something in what you say, because I know that you have great experience, + and learning, and invention. And I wish that you would, if possible, show + me a little more clearly that virtue can be taught. Will you be so good? + </p> + <p> + That I will, Socrates, and gladly. But what would you like? Shall I, as an + elder, speak to you as younger men in an apologue or myth, or shall I + argue out the question? + </p> + <p> + To this several of the company answered that he should choose for himself. + </p> + <p> + Well, then, he said, I think that the myth will be more interesting. + </p> + <p> + Once upon a time there were gods only, and no mortal creatures. But when + the time came that these also should be created, the gods fashioned them + out of earth and fire and various mixtures of both elements in the + interior of the earth; and when they were about to bring them into the + light of day, they ordered Prometheus and Epimetheus to equip them, and to + distribute to them severally their proper qualities. Epimetheus said to + Prometheus: 'Let me distribute, and do you inspect.' This was agreed, and + Epimetheus made the distribution. There were some to whom he gave strength + without swiftness, while he equipped the weaker with swiftness; some he + armed, and others he left unarmed; and devised for the latter some other + means of preservation, making some large, and having their size as a + protection, and others small, whose nature was to fly in the air or burrow + in the ground; this was to be their way of escape. Thus did he compensate + them with the view of preventing any race from becoming extinct. And when + he had provided against their destruction by one another, he contrived + also a means of protecting them against the seasons of heaven; clothing + them with close hair and thick skins sufficient to defend them against the + winter cold and able to resist the summer heat, so that they might have a + natural bed of their own when they wanted to rest; also he furnished them + with hoofs and hair and hard and callous skins under their feet. Then he + gave them varieties of food,—herb of the soil to some, to others + fruits of trees, and to others roots, and to some again he gave other + animals as food. And some he made to have few young ones, while those who + were their prey were very prolific; and in this manner the race was + preserved. Thus did Epimetheus, who, not being very wise, forgot that he + had distributed among the brute animals all the qualities which he had to + give,—and when he came to man, who was still unprovided, he was + terribly perplexed. Now while he was in this perplexity, Prometheus came + to inspect the distribution, and he found that the other animals were + suitably furnished, but that man alone was naked and shoeless, and had + neither bed nor arms of defence. The appointed hour was approaching when + man in his turn was to go forth into the light of day; and Prometheus, not + knowing how he could devise his salvation, stole the mechanical arts of + Hephaestus and Athene, and fire with them (they could neither have been + acquired nor used without fire), and gave them to man. Thus man had the + wisdom necessary to the support of life, but political wisdom he had not; + for that was in the keeping of Zeus, and the power of Prometheus did not + extend to entering into the citadel of heaven, where Zeus dwelt, who + moreover had terrible sentinels; but he did enter by stealth into the + common workshop of Athene and Hephaestus, in which they used to practise + their favourite arts, and carried off Hephaestus' art of working by fire, + and also the art of Athene, and gave them to man. And in this way man was + supplied with the means of life. But Prometheus is said to have been + afterwards prosecuted for theft, owing to the blunder of Epimetheus. + </p> + <p> + Now man, having a share of the divine attributes, was at first the only + one of the animals who had any gods, because he alone was of their + kindred; and he would raise altars and images of them. He was not long in + inventing articulate speech and names; and he also constructed houses and + clothes and shoes and beds, and drew sustenance from the earth. Thus + provided, mankind at first lived dispersed, and there were no cities. But + the consequence was that they were destroyed by the wild beasts, for they + were utterly weak in comparison of them, and their art was only sufficient + to provide them with the means of life, and did not enable them to carry + on war against the animals: food they had, but not as yet the art of + government, of which the art of war is a part. After a while the desire of + self-preservation gathered them into cities; but when they were gathered + together, having no art of government, they evil intreated one another, + and were again in process of dispersion and destruction. Zeus feared that + the entire race would be exterminated, and so he sent Hermes to them, + bearing reverence and justice to be the ordering principles of cities and + the bonds of friendship and conciliation. Hermes asked Zeus how he should + impart justice and reverence among men:—Should he distribute them as + the arts are distributed; that is to say, to a favoured few only, one + skilled individual having enough of medicine or of any other art for many + unskilled ones? 'Shall this be the manner in which I am to distribute + justice and reverence among men, or shall I give them to all?' 'To all,' + said Zeus; 'I should like them all to have a share; for cities cannot + exist, if a few only share in the virtues, as in the arts. And further, + make a law by my order, that he who has no part in reverence and justice + shall be put to death, for he is a plague of the state.' + </p> + <p> + And this is the reason, Socrates, why the Athenians and mankind in + general, when the question relates to carpentering or any other mechanical + art, allow but a few to share in their deliberations; and when any one + else interferes, then, as you say, they object, if he be not of the + favoured few; which, as I reply, is very natural. But when they meet to + deliberate about political virtue, which proceeds only by way of justice + and wisdom, they are patient enough of any man who speaks of them, as is + also natural, because they think that every man ought to share in this + sort of virtue, and that states could not exist if this were otherwise. I + have explained to you, Socrates, the reason of this phenomenon. + </p> + <p> + And that you may not suppose yourself to be deceived in thinking that all + men regard every man as having a share of justice or honesty and of every + other political virtue, let me give you a further proof, which is this. In + other cases, as you are aware, if a man says that he is a good + flute-player, or skilful in any other art in which he has no skill, people + either laugh at him or are angry with him, and his relations think that he + is mad and go and admonish him; but when honesty is in question, or some + other political virtue, even if they know that he is dishonest, yet, if + the man comes publicly forward and tells the truth about his dishonesty, + then, what in the other case was held by them to be good sense, they now + deem to be madness. They say that all men ought to profess honesty whether + they are honest or not, and that a man is out of his mind who says + anything else. Their notion is, that a man must have some degree of + honesty; and that if he has none at all he ought not to be in the world. + </p> + <p> + I have been showing that they are right in admitting every man as a + counsellor about this sort of virtue, as they are of opinion that every + man is a partaker of it. And I will now endeavour to show further that + they do not conceive this virtue to be given by nature, or to grow + spontaneously, but to be a thing which may be taught; and which comes to a + man by taking pains. No one would instruct, no one would rebuke, or be + angry with those whose calamities they suppose to be due to nature or + chance; they do not try to punish or to prevent them from being what they + are; they do but pity them. Who is so foolish as to chastise or instruct + the ugly, or the diminutive, or the feeble? And for this reason. Because + he knows that good and evil of this kind is the work of nature and of + chance; whereas if a man is wanting in those good qualities which are + attained by study and exercise and teaching, and has only the contrary + evil qualities, other men are angry with him, and punish and reprove him—of + these evil qualities one is impiety, another injustice, and they may be + described generally as the very opposite of political virtue. In such + cases any man will be angry with another, and reprimand him,—clearly + because he thinks that by study and learning, the virtue in which the + other is deficient may be acquired. If you will think, Socrates, of the + nature of punishment, you will see at once that in the opinion of mankind + virtue may be acquired; no one punishes the evil-doer under the notion, or + for the reason, that he has done wrong,—only the unreasonable fury + of a beast acts in that manner. But he who desires to inflict rational + punishment does not retaliate for a past wrong which cannot be undone; he + has regard to the future, and is desirous that the man who is punished, + and he who sees him punished, may be deterred from doing wrong again. He + punishes for the sake of prevention, thereby clearly implying that virtue + is capable of being taught. This is the notion of all who retaliate upon + others either privately or publicly. And the Athenians, too, your own + citizens, like other men, punish and take vengeance on all whom they + regard as evil doers; and hence, we may infer them to be of the number of + those who think that virtue may be acquired and taught. Thus far, + Socrates, I have shown you clearly enough, if I am not mistaken, that your + countrymen are right in admitting the tinker and the cobbler to advise + about politics, and also that they deem virtue to be capable of being + taught and acquired. + </p> + <p> + There yet remains one difficulty which has been raised by you about the + sons of good men. What is the reason why good men teach their sons the + knowledge which is gained from teachers, and make them wise in that, but + do nothing towards improving them in the virtues which distinguish + themselves? And here, Socrates, I will leave the apologue and resume the + argument. Please to consider: Is there or is there not some one quality of + which all the citizens must be partakers, if there is to be a city at all? + In the answer to this question is contained the only solution of your + difficulty; there is no other. For if there be any such quality, and this + quality or unity is not the art of the carpenter, or the smith, or the + potter, but justice and temperance and holiness and, in a word, manly + virtue—if this is the quality of which all men must be partakers, + and which is the very condition of their learning or doing anything else, + and if he who is wanting in this, whether he be a child only or a grown-up + man or woman, must be taught and punished, until by punishment he becomes + better, and he who rebels against instruction and punishment is either + exiled or condemned to death under the idea that he is incurable—if + what I am saying be true, good men have their sons taught other things and + not this, do consider how extraordinary their conduct would appear to be. + For we have shown that they think virtue capable of being taught and + cultivated both in private and public; and, notwithstanding, they have + their sons taught lesser matters, ignorance of which does not involve the + punishment of death: but greater things, of which the ignorance may cause + death and exile to those who have no training or knowledge of them—aye, + and confiscation as well as death, and, in a word, may be the ruin of + families—those things, I say, they are supposed not to teach them,—not + to take the utmost care that they should learn. How improbable is this, + Socrates! + </p> + <p> + Education and admonition commence in the first years of childhood, and + last to the very end of life. Mother and nurse and father and tutor are + vying with one another about the improvement of the child as soon as ever + he is able to understand what is being said to him: he cannot say or do + anything without their setting forth to him that this is just and that is + unjust; this is honourable, that is dishonourable; this is holy, that is + unholy; do this and abstain from that. And if he obeys, well and good; if + not, he is straightened by threats and blows, like a piece of bent or + warped wood. At a later stage they send him to teachers, and enjoin them + to see to his manners even more than to his reading and music; and the + teachers do as they are desired. And when the boy has learned his letters + and is beginning to understand what is written, as before he understood + only what was spoken, they put into his hands the works of great poets, + which he reads sitting on a bench at school; in these are contained many + admonitions, and many tales, and praises, and encomia of ancient famous + men, which he is required to learn by heart, in order that he may imitate + or emulate them and desire to become like them. Then, again, the teachers + of the lyre take similar care that their young disciple is temperate and + gets into no mischief; and when they have taught him the use of the lyre, + they introduce him to the poems of other excellent poets, who are the + lyric poets; and these they set to music, and make their harmonies and + rhythms quite familiar to the children's souls, in order that they may + learn to be more gentle, and harmonious, and rhythmical, and so more + fitted for speech and action; for the life of man in every part has need + of harmony and rhythm. Then they send them to the master of gymnastic, in + order that their bodies may better minister to the virtuous mind, and that + they may not be compelled through bodily weakness to play the coward in + war or on any other occasion. This is what is done by those who have the + means, and those who have the means are the rich; their children begin to + go to school soonest and leave off latest. When they have done with + masters, the state again compels them to learn the laws, and live after + the pattern which they furnish, and not after their own fancies; and just + as in learning to write, the writing-master first draws lines with a style + for the use of the young beginner, and gives him the tablet and makes him + follow the lines, so the city draws the laws, which were the invention of + good lawgivers living in the olden time; these are given to the young man, + in order to guide him in his conduct whether he is commanding or obeying; + and he who transgresses them is to be corrected, or, in other words, + called to account, which is a term used not only in your country, but also + in many others, seeing that justice calls men to account. Now when there + is all this care about virtue private and public, why, Socrates, do you + still wonder and doubt whether virtue can be taught? Cease to wonder, for + the opposite would be far more surprising. + </p> + <p> + But why then do the sons of good fathers often turn out ill? There is + nothing very wonderful in this; for, as I have been saying, the existence + of a state implies that virtue is not any man's private possession. If so—and + nothing can be truer—then I will further ask you to imagine, as an + illustration, some other pursuit or branch of knowledge which may be + assumed equally to be the condition of the existence of a state. Suppose + that there could be no state unless we were all flute-players, as far as + each had the capacity, and everybody was freely teaching everybody the + art, both in private and public, and reproving the bad player as freely + and openly as every man now teaches justice and the laws, not concealing + them as he would conceal the other arts, but imparting them—for all + of us have a mutual interest in the justice and virtue of one another, and + this is the reason why every one is so ready to teach justice and the + laws;—suppose, I say, that there were the same readiness and + liberality among us in teaching one another flute-playing, do you imagine, + Socrates, that the sons of good flute-players would be more likely to be + good than the sons of bad ones? I think not. Would not their sons grow up + to be distinguished or undistinguished according to their own natural + capacities as flute-players, and the son of a good player would often turn + out to be a bad one, and the son of a bad player to be a good one, all + flute-players would be good enough in comparison of those who were + ignorant and unacquainted with the art of flute-playing? In like manner I + would have you consider that he who appears to you to be the worst of + those who have been brought up in laws and humanities, would appear to be + a just man and a master of justice if he were to be compared with men who + had no education, or courts of justice, or laws, or any restraints upon + them which compelled them to practise virtue—with the savages, for + example, whom the poet Pherecrates exhibited on the stage at the last + year's Lenaean festival. If you were living among men such as the + man-haters in his Chorus, you would be only too glad to meet with + Eurybates and Phrynondas, and you would sorrowfully long to revisit the + rascality of this part of the world. You, Socrates, are discontented, and + why? Because all men are teachers of virtue, each one according to his + ability; and you say Where are the teachers? You might as well ask, Who + teaches Greek? For of that too there will not be any teachers found. Or + you might ask, Who is to teach the sons of our artisans this same art + which they have learned of their fathers? He and his fellow-workmen have + taught them to the best of their ability,—but who will carry them + further in their arts? And you would certainly have a difficulty, + Socrates, in finding a teacher of them; but there would be no difficulty + in finding a teacher of those who are wholly ignorant. And this is true of + virtue or of anything else; if a man is better able than we are to promote + virtue ever so little, we must be content with the result. A teacher of + this sort I believe myself to be, and above all other men to have the + knowledge which makes a man noble and good; and I give my pupils their + money's-worth, and even more, as they themselves confess. And therefore I + have introduced the following mode of payment:—When a man has been + my pupil, if he likes he pays my price, but there is no compulsion; and if + he does not like, he has only to go into a temple and take an oath of the + value of the instructions, and he pays no more than he declares to be + their value. + </p> + <p> + Such is my Apologue, Socrates, and such is the argument by which I + endeavour to show that virtue may be taught, and that this is the opinion + of the Athenians. And I have also attempted to show that you are not to + wonder at good fathers having bad sons, or at good sons having bad + fathers, of which the sons of Polycleitus afford an example, who are the + companions of our friends here, Paralus and Xanthippus, but are nothing in + comparison with their father; and this is true of the sons of many other + artists. As yet I ought not to say the same of Paralus and Xanthippus + themselves, for they are young and there is still hope of them. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras ended, and in my ear + </p> + <p> + 'So charming left his voice, that I the while Thought him still speaking; + still stood fixed to hear (Borrowed by Milton, "Paradise Lost".).' + </p> + <p> + At length, when the truth dawned upon me, that he had really finished, not + without difficulty I began to collect myself, and looking at Hippocrates, + I said to him: O son of Apollodorus, how deeply grateful I am to you for + having brought me hither; I would not have missed the speech of Protagoras + for a great deal. For I used to imagine that no human care could make men + good; but I know better now. Yet I have still one very small difficulty + which I am sure that Protagoras will easily explain, as he has already + explained so much. If a man were to go and consult Pericles or any of our + great speakers about these matters, he might perhaps hear as fine a + discourse; but then when one has a question to ask of any of them, like + books, they can neither answer nor ask; and if any one challenges the + least particular of their speech, they go ringing on in a long harangue, + like brazen pots, which when they are struck continue to sound unless some + one puts his hand upon them; whereas our friend Protagoras can not only + make a good speech, as he has already shown, but when he is asked a + question he can answer briefly; and when he asks he will wait and hear the + answer; and this is a very rare gift. Now I, Protagoras, want to ask of + you a little question, which if you will only answer, I shall be quite + satisfied. You were saying that virtue can be taught;—that I will + take upon your authority, and there is no one to whom I am more ready to + trust. But I marvel at one thing about which I should like to have my mind + set at rest. You were speaking of Zeus sending justice and reverence to + men; and several times while you were speaking, justice, and temperance, + and holiness, and all these qualities, were described by you as if + together they made up virtue. Now I want you to tell me truly whether + virtue is one whole, of which justice and temperance and holiness are + parts; or whether all these are only the names of one and the same thing: + that is the doubt which still lingers in my mind. + </p> + <p> + There is no difficulty, Socrates, in answering that the qualities of which + you are speaking are the parts of virtue which is one. + </p> + <p> + And are they parts, I said, in the same sense in which mouth, nose, and + eyes, and ears, are the parts of a face; or are they like the parts of + gold, which differ from the whole and from one another only in being + larger or smaller? + </p> + <p> + I should say that they differed, Socrates, in the first way; they are + related to one another as the parts of a face are related to the whole + face. + </p> + <p> + And do men have some one part and some another part of virtue? Or if a man + has one part, must he also have all the others? + </p> + <p> + By no means, he said; for many a man is brave and not just, or just and + not wise. + </p> + <p> + You would not deny, then, that courage and wisdom are also parts of + virtue? + </p> + <p> + Most undoubtedly they are, he answered; and wisdom is the noblest of the + parts. + </p> + <p> + And they are all different from one another? I said. + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And has each of them a distinct function like the parts of the face;—the + eye, for example, is not like the ear, and has not the same functions; and + the other parts are none of them like one another, either in their + functions, or in any other way? I want to know whether the comparison + holds concerning the parts of virtue. Do they also differ from one another + in themselves and in their functions? For that is clearly what the simile + would imply. + </p> + <p> + Yes, Socrates, you are right in supposing that they differ. + </p> + <p> + Then, I said, no other part of virtue is like knowledge, or like justice, + or like courage, or like temperance, or like holiness? + </p> + <p> + No, he answered. + </p> + <p> + Well then, I said, suppose that you and I enquire into their natures. And + first, you would agree with me that justice is of the nature of a thing, + would you not? That is my opinion: would it not be yours also? + </p> + <p> + Mine also, he said. + </p> + <p> + And suppose that some one were to ask us, saying, 'O Protagoras, and you, + Socrates, what about this thing which you were calling justice, is it just + or unjust?'—and I were to answer, just: would you vote with me or + against me? + </p> + <p> + With you, he said. + </p> + <p> + Thereupon I should answer to him who asked me, that justice is of the + nature of the just: would not you? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said. + </p> + <p> + And suppose that he went on to say: 'Well now, is there also such a thing + as holiness?'—we should answer, 'Yes,' if I am not mistaken? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said. + </p> + <p> + Which you would also acknowledge to be a thing—should we not say so? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + 'And is this a sort of thing which is of the nature of the holy, or of the + nature of the unholy?' I should be angry at his putting such a question, + and should say, 'Peace, man; nothing can be holy if holiness is not holy.' + What would you say? Would you not answer in the same way? + </p> + <p> + Certainly, he said. + </p> + <p> + And then after this suppose that he came and asked us, 'What were you + saying just now? Perhaps I may not have heard you rightly, but you seemed + to me to be saying that the parts of virtue were not the same as one + another.' I should reply, 'You certainly heard that said, but not, as you + imagine, by me; for I only asked the question; Protagoras gave the + answer.' And suppose that he turned to you and said, 'Is this true, + Protagoras? and do you maintain that one part of virtue is unlike another, + and is this your position?'—how would you answer him? + </p> + <p> + I could not help acknowledging the truth of what he said, Socrates. + </p> + <p> + Well then, Protagoras, we will assume this; and now supposing that he + proceeded to say further, 'Then holiness is not of the nature of justice, + nor justice of the nature of holiness, but of the nature of unholiness; + and holiness is of the nature of the not just, and therefore of the + unjust, and the unjust is the unholy': how shall we answer him? I should + certainly answer him on my own behalf that justice is holy, and that + holiness is just; and I would say in like manner on your behalf also, if + you would allow me, that justice is either the same with holiness, or very + nearly the same; and above all I would assert that justice is like + holiness and holiness is like justice; and I wish that you would tell me + whether I may be permitted to give this answer on your behalf, and whether + you would agree with me. + </p> + <p> + He replied, I cannot simply agree, Socrates, to the proposition that + justice is holy and that holiness is just, for there appears to me to be a + difference between them. But what matter? if you please I please; and let + us assume, if you will I, that justice is holy, and that holiness is just. + </p> + <p> + Pardon me, I replied; I do not want this 'if you wish' or 'if you will' + sort of conclusion to be proven, but I want you and me to be proven: I + mean to say that the conclusion will be best proven if there be no 'if.' + </p> + <p> + Well, he said, I admit that justice bears a resemblance to holiness, for + there is always some point of view in which everything is like every other + thing; white is in a certain way like black, and hard is like soft, and + the most extreme opposites have some qualities in common; even the parts + of the face which, as we were saying before, are distinct and have + different functions, are still in a certain point of view similar, and one + of them is like another of them. And you may prove that they are like one + another on the same principle that all things are like one another; and + yet things which are like in some particular ought not to be called alike, + nor things which are unlike in some particular, however slight, unlike. + </p> + <p> + And do you think, I said in a tone of surprise, that justice and holiness + have but a small degree of likeness? + </p> + <p> + Certainly not; any more than I agree with what I understand to be your + view. + </p> + <p> + Well, I said, as you appear to have a difficulty about this, let us take + another of the examples which you mentioned instead. Do you admit the + existence of folly? + </p> + <p> + I do. + </p> + <p> + And is not wisdom the very opposite of folly? + </p> + <p> + That is true, he said. + </p> + <p> + And when men act rightly and advantageously they seem to you to be + temperate? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said. + </p> + <p> + And temperance makes them temperate? + </p> + <p> + Certainly. + </p> + <p> + And they who do not act rightly act foolishly, and in acting thus are not + temperate? + </p> + <p> + I agree, he said. + </p> + <p> + Then to act foolishly is the opposite of acting temperately? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And foolish actions are done by folly, and temperate actions by + temperance? + </p> + <p> + He agreed. + </p> + <p> + And that is done strongly which is done by strength, and that which is + weakly done, by weakness? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And that which is done with swiftness is done swiftly, and that which is + done with slowness, slowly? + </p> + <p> + He assented again. + </p> + <p> + And that which is done in the same manner, is done by the same; and that + which is done in an opposite manner by the opposite? + </p> + <p> + He agreed. + </p> + <p> + Once more, I said, is there anything beautiful? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + To which the only opposite is the ugly? + </p> + <p> + There is no other. + </p> + <p> + And is there anything good? + </p> + <p> + There is. + </p> + <p> + To which the only opposite is the evil? + </p> + <p> + There is no other. + </p> + <p> + And there is the acute in sound? + </p> + <p> + True. + </p> + <p> + To which the only opposite is the grave? + </p> + <p> + There is no other, he said, but that. + </p> + <p> + Then every opposite has one opposite only and no more? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + Then now, I said, let us recapitulate our admissions. First of all we + admitted that everything has one opposite and not more than one? + </p> + <p> + We did so. + </p> + <p> + And we admitted also that what was done in opposite ways was done by + opposites? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And that which was done foolishly, as we further admitted, was done in the + opposite way to that which was done temperately? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And that which was done temperately was done by temperance, and that which + was done foolishly by folly? + </p> + <p> + He agreed. + </p> + <p> + And that which is done in opposite ways is done by opposites? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And one thing is done by temperance, and quite another thing by folly? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And in opposite ways? + </p> + <p> + Certainly. + </p> + <p> + And therefore by opposites:—then folly is the opposite of + temperance? + </p> + <p> + Clearly. + </p> + <p> + And do you remember that folly has already been acknowledged by us to be + the opposite of wisdom? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And we said that everything has only one opposite? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + Then, Protagoras, which of the two assertions shall we renounce? One says + that everything has but one opposite; the other that wisdom is distinct + from temperance, and that both of them are parts of virtue; and that they + are not only distinct, but dissimilar, both in themselves and in their + functions, like the parts of a face. Which of these two assertions shall + we renounce? For both of them together are certainly not in harmony; they + do not accord or agree: for how can they be said to agree if everything is + assumed to have only one opposite and not more than one, and yet folly, + which is one, has clearly the two opposites—wisdom and temperance? + Is not that true, Protagoras? What else would you say? + </p> + <p> + He assented, but with great reluctance. + </p> + <p> + Then temperance and wisdom are the same, as before justice and holiness + appeared to us to be nearly the same. And now, Protagoras, I said, we must + finish the enquiry, and not faint. Do you think that an unjust man can be + temperate in his injustice? + </p> + <p> + I should be ashamed, Socrates, he said, to acknowledge this, which + nevertheless many may be found to assert. + </p> + <p> + And shall I argue with them or with you? I replied. + </p> + <p> + I would rather, he said, that you should argue with the many first, if you + will. + </p> + <p> + Whichever you please, if you will only answer me and say whether you are + of their opinion or not. My object is to test the validity of the + argument; and yet the result may be that I who ask and you who answer may + both be put on our trial. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras at first made a show of refusing, as he said that the argument + was not encouraging; at length, he consented to answer. + </p> + <p> + Now then, I said, begin at the beginning and answer me. You think that + some men are temperate, and yet unjust? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said; let that be admitted. + </p> + <p> + And temperance is good sense? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And good sense is good counsel in doing injustice? + </p> + <p> + Granted. + </p> + <p> + If they succeed, I said, or if they do not succeed? + </p> + <p> + If they succeed. + </p> + <p> + And you would admit the existence of goods? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + And is the good that which is expedient for man? + </p> + <p> + Yes, indeed, he said: and there are some things which may be inexpedient, + and yet I call them good. + </p> + <p> + I thought that Protagoras was getting ruffled and excited; he seemed to be + setting himself in an attitude of war. Seeing this, I minded my business, + and gently said:— + </p> + <p> + When you say, Protagoras, that things inexpedient are good, do you mean + inexpedient for man only, or inexpedient altogether? and do you call the + latter good? + </p> + <p> + Certainly not the last, he replied; for I know of many things—meats, + drinks, medicines, and ten thousand other things, which are inexpedient + for man, and some which are expedient; and some which are neither + expedient nor inexpedient for man, but only for horses; and some for oxen + only, and some for dogs; and some for no animals, but only for trees; and + some for the roots of trees and not for their branches, as for example, + manure, which is a good thing when laid about the roots of a tree, but + utterly destructive if thrown upon the shoots and young branches; or I may + instance olive oil, which is mischievous to all plants, and generally most + injurious to the hair of every animal with the exception of man, but + beneficial to human hair and to the human body generally; and even in this + application (so various and changeable is the nature of the benefit), that + which is the greatest good to the outward parts of a man, is a very great + evil to his inward parts: and for this reason physicians always forbid + their patients the use of oil in their food, except in very small + quantities, just enough to extinguish the disagreeable sensation of smell + in meats and sauces. + </p> + <p> + When he had given this answer, the company cheered him. And I said: + Protagoras, I have a wretched memory, and when any one makes a long speech + to me I never remember what he is talking about. As then, if I had been + deaf, and you were going to converse with me, you would have had to raise + your voice; so now, having such a bad memory, I will ask you to cut your + answers shorter, if you would take me with you. + </p> + <p> + What do you mean? he said: how am I to shorten my answers? shall I make + them too short? + </p> + <p> + Certainly not, I said. + </p> + <p> + But short enough? + </p> + <p> + Yes, I said. + </p> + <p> + Shall I answer what appears to me to be short enough, or what appears to + you to be short enough? + </p> + <p> + I have heard, I said, that you can speak and teach others to speak about + the same things at such length that words never seemed to fail, or with + such brevity that no one could use fewer of them. Please therefore, if you + talk with me, to adopt the latter or more compendious method. + </p> + <p> + Socrates, he replied, many a battle of words have I fought, and if I had + followed the method of disputation which my adversaries desired, as you + want me to do, I should have been no better than another, and the name of + Protagoras would have been nowhere. + </p> + <p> + I saw that he was not satisfied with his previous answers, and that he + would not play the part of answerer any more if he could help; and I + considered that there was no call upon me to continue the conversation; so + I said: Protagoras, I do not wish to force the conversation upon you if + you had rather not, but when you are willing to argue with me in such a + way that I can follow you, then I will argue with you. Now you, as is said + of you by others and as you say of yourself, are able to have discussions + in shorter forms of speech as well as in longer, for you are a master of + wisdom; but I cannot manage these long speeches: I only wish that I could. + You, on the other hand, who are capable of either, ought to speak shorter + as I beg you, and then we might converse. But I see that you are + disinclined, and as I have an engagement which will prevent my staying to + hear you at greater length (for I have to be in another place), I will + depart; although I should have liked to have heard you. + </p> + <p> + Thus I spoke, and was rising from my seat, when Callias seized me by the + right hand, and in his left hand caught hold of this old cloak of mine. He + said: We cannot let you go, Socrates, for if you leave us there will be an + end of our discussions: I must therefore beg you to remain, as there is + nothing in the world that I should like better than to hear you and + Protagoras discourse. Do not deny the company this pleasure. + </p> + <p> + Now I had got up, and was in the act of departure. Son of Hipponicus, I + replied, I have always admired, and do now heartily applaud and love your + philosophical spirit, and I would gladly comply with your request, if I + could. But the truth is that I cannot. And what you ask is as great an + impossibility to me, as if you bade me run a race with Crison of Himera, + when in his prime, or with some one of the long or day course runners. To + such a request I should reply that I would fain ask the same of my own + legs; but they refuse to comply. And therefore if you want to see Crison + and me in the same stadium, you must bid him slacken his speed to mine, + for I cannot run quickly, and he can run slowly. And in like manner if you + want to hear me and Protagoras discoursing, you must ask him to shorten + his answers, and keep to the point, as he did at first; if not, how can + there be any discussion? For discussion is one thing, and making an + oration is quite another, in my humble opinion. + </p> + <p> + But you see, Socrates, said Callias, that Protagoras may fairly claim to + speak in his own way, just as you claim to speak in yours. + </p> + <p> + Here Alcibiades interposed, and said: That, Callias, is not a true + statement of the case. For our friend Socrates admits that he cannot make + a speech—in this he yields the palm to Protagoras: but I should be + greatly surprised if he yielded to any living man in the power of holding + and apprehending an argument. Now if Protagoras will make a similar + admission, and confess that he is inferior to Socrates in argumentative + skill, that is enough for Socrates; but if he claims a superiority in + argument as well, let him ask and answer—not, when a question is + asked, slipping away from the point, and instead of answering, making a + speech at such length that most of his hearers forget the question at + issue (not that Socrates is likely to forget—I will be bound for + that, although he may pretend in fun that he has a bad memory). And + Socrates appears to me to be more in the right than Protagoras; that is my + view, and every man ought to say what he thinks. + </p> + <p> + When Alcibiades had done speaking, some one—Critias, I believe—went + on to say: O Prodicus and Hippias, Callias appears to me to be a partisan + of Protagoras: and this led Alcibiades, who loves opposition, to take the + other side. But we should not be partisans either of Socrates or of + Protagoras; let us rather unite in entreating both of them not to break up + the discussion. + </p> + <p> + Prodicus added: That, Critias, seems to me to be well said, for those who + are present at such discussions ought to be impartial hearers of both the + speakers; remembering, however, that impartiality is not the same as + equality, for both sides should be impartially heard, and yet an equal + meed should not be assigned to both of them; but to the wiser a higher + meed should be given, and a lower to the less wise. And I as well as + Critias would beg you, Protagoras and Socrates, to grant our request, + which is, that you will argue with one another and not wrangle; for + friends argue with friends out of good-will, but only adversaries and + enemies wrangle. And then our meeting will be delightful; for in this way + you, who are the speakers, will be most likely to win esteem, and not + praise only, among us who are your audience; for esteem is a sincere + conviction of the hearers' souls, but praise is often an insincere + expression of men uttering falsehoods contrary to their conviction. And + thus we who are the hearers will be gratified and not pleased; for + gratification is of the mind when receiving wisdom and knowledge, but + pleasure is of the body when eating or experiencing some other bodily + delight. Thus spoke Prodicus, and many of the company applauded his words. + </p> + <p> + Hippias the sage spoke next. He said: All of you who are here present I + reckon to be kinsmen and friends and fellow-citizens, by nature and not by + law; for by nature like is akin to like, whereas law is the tyrant of + mankind, and often compels us to do many things which are against nature. + How great would be the disgrace then, if we, who know the nature of + things, and are the wisest of the Hellenes, and as such are met together + in this city, which is the metropolis of wisdom, and in the greatest and + most glorious house of this city, should have nothing to show worthy of + this height of dignity, but should only quarrel with one another like the + meanest of mankind! I do pray and advise you, Protagoras, and you, + Socrates, to agree upon a compromise. Let us be your peacemakers. And do + not you, Socrates, aim at this precise and extreme brevity in discourse, + if Protagoras objects, but loosen and let go the reins of speech, that + your words may be grander and more becoming to you. Neither do you, + Protagoras, go forth on the gale with every sail set out of sight of land + into an ocean of words, but let there be a mean observed by both of you. + Do as I say. And let me also persuade you to choose an arbiter or overseer + or president; he will keep watch over your words and will prescribe their + proper length. + </p> + <p> + This proposal was received by the company with universal approval; Callias + said that he would not let me off, and they begged me to choose an + arbiter. But I said that to choose an umpire of discourse would be + unseemly; for if the person chosen was inferior, then the inferior or + worse ought not to preside over the better; or if he was equal, neither + would that be well; for he who is our equal will do as we do, and what + will be the use of choosing him? And if you say, 'Let us have a better + then,'—to that I answer that you cannot have any one who is wiser + than Protagoras. And if you choose another who is not really better, and + whom you only say is better, to put another over him as though he were an + inferior person would be an unworthy reflection on him; not that, as far + as I am concerned, any reflection is of much consequence to me. Let me + tell you then what I will do in order that the conversation and discussion + may go on as you desire. If Protagoras is not disposed to answer, let him + ask and I will answer; and I will endeavour to show at the same time how, + as I maintain, he ought to answer: and when I have answered as many + questions as he likes to ask, let him in like manner answer me; and if he + seems to be not very ready at answering the precise question asked of him, + you and I will unite in entreating him, as you entreated me, not to spoil + the discussion. And this will require no special arbiter—all of you + shall be arbiters. + </p> + <p> + This was generally approved, and Protagoras, though very much against his + will, was obliged to agree that he would ask questions; and when he had + put a sufficient number of them, that he would answer in his turn those + which he was asked in short replies. He began to put his questions as + follows:— + </p> + <p> + I am of opinion, Socrates, he said, that skill in poetry is the principal + part of education; and this I conceive to be the power of knowing what + compositions of the poets are correct, and what are not, and how they are + to be distinguished, and of explaining when asked the reason of the + difference. And I propose to transfer the question which you and I have + been discussing to the domain of poetry; we will speak as before of + virtue, but in reference to a passage of a poet. Now Simonides says to + Scopas the son of Creon the Thessalian: + </p> + <p> + 'Hardly on the one hand can a man become truly good, built four-square in + hands and feet and mind, a work without a flaw.' + </p> + <p> + Do you know the poem? or shall I repeat the whole? + </p> + <p> + There is no need, I said; for I am perfectly well acquainted with the ode,—I + have made a careful study of it. + </p> + <p> + Very well, he said. And do you think that the ode is a good composition, + and true? + </p> + <p> + Yes, I said, both good and true. + </p> + <p> + But if there is a contradiction, can the composition be good or true? + </p> + <p> + No, not in that case, I replied. + </p> + <p> + And is there not a contradiction? he asked. Reflect. + </p> + <p> + Well, my friend, I have reflected. + </p> + <p> + And does not the poet proceed to say, 'I do not agree with the word of + Pittacus, albeit the utterance of a wise man: Hardly can a man be good'? + Now you will observe that this is said by the same poet. + </p> + <p> + I know it. + </p> + <p> + And do you think, he said, that the two sayings are consistent? + </p> + <p> + Yes, I said, I think so (at the same time I could not help fearing that + there might be something in what he said). And you think otherwise? + </p> + <p> + Why, he said, how can he be consistent in both? First of all, premising as + his own thought, 'Hardly can a man become truly good'; and then a little + further on in the poem, forgetting, and blaming Pittacus and refusing to + agree with him, when he says, 'Hardly can a man be good,' which is the + very same thing. And yet when he blames him who says the same with + himself, he blames himself; so that he must be wrong either in his first + or his second assertion. + </p> + <p> + Many of the audience cheered and applauded this. And I felt at first giddy + and faint, as if I had received a blow from the hand of an expert boxer, + when I heard his words and the sound of the cheering; and to confess the + truth, I wanted to get time to think what the meaning of the poet really + was. So I turned to Prodicus and called him. Prodicus, I said, Simonides + is a countryman of yours, and you ought to come to his aid. I must appeal + to you, like the river Scamander in Homer, who, when beleaguered by + Achilles, summons the Simois to aid him, saying: + </p> + <p> + 'Brother dear, let us both together stay the force of the hero (Il.).' + </p> + <p> + And I summon you, for I am afraid that Protagoras will make an end of + Simonides. Now is the time to rehabilitate Simonides, by the application + of your philosophy of synonyms, which enables you to distinguish 'will' + and 'wish,' and make other charming distinctions like those which you drew + just now. And I should like to know whether you would agree with me; for I + am of opinion that there is no contradiction in the words of Simonides. + And first of all I wish that you would say whether, in your opinion, + Prodicus, 'being' is the same as 'becoming.' + </p> + <p> + Not the same, certainly, replied Prodicus. + </p> + <p> + Did not Simonides first set forth, as his own view, that 'Hardly can a man + become truly good'? + </p> + <p> + Quite right, said Prodicus. + </p> + <p> + And then he blames Pittacus, not, as Protagoras imagines, for repeating + that which he says himself, but for saying something different from + himself. Pittacus does not say as Simonides says, that hardly can a man + become good, but hardly can a man be good: and our friend Prodicus would + maintain that being, Protagoras, is not the same as becoming; and if they + are not the same, then Simonides is not inconsistent with himself. I dare + say that Prodicus and many others would say, as Hesiod says, + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + 'On the one hand, hardly can a man become good, + For the gods have made virtue the reward of toil, + But on the other hand, when you have climbed the height, + Then, to retain virtue, however difficult the acquisition, is easy + —(Works and Days).' +</pre> + <p> + Prodicus heard and approved; but Protagoras said: Your correction, + Socrates, involves a greater error than is contained in the sentence which + you are correcting. + </p> + <p> + Alas! I said, Protagoras; then I am a sorry physician, and do but + aggravate a disorder which I am seeking to cure. + </p> + <p> + Such is the fact, he said. + </p> + <p> + How so? I asked. + </p> + <p> + The poet, he replied, could never have made such a mistake as to say that + virtue, which in the opinion of all men is the hardest of all things, can + be easily retained. + </p> + <p> + Well, I said, and how fortunate are we in having Prodicus among us, at the + right moment; for he has a wisdom, Protagoras, which, as I imagine, is + more than human and of very ancient date, and may be as old as Simonides + or even older. Learned as you are in many things, you appear to know + nothing of this; but I know, for I am a disciple of his. And now, if I am + not mistaken, you do not understand the word 'hard' (chalepon) in the + sense which Simonides intended; and I must correct you, as Prodicus + corrects me when I use the word 'awful' (deinon) as a term of praise. If I + say that Protagoras or any one else is an 'awfully' wise man, he asks me + if I am not ashamed of calling that which is good 'awful'; and then he + explains to me that the term 'awful' is always taken in a bad sense, and + that no one speaks of being 'awfully' healthy or wealthy, or of 'awful' + peace, but of 'awful' disease, 'awful' war, 'awful' poverty, meaning by + the term 'awful,' evil. And I think that Simonides and his countrymen the + Ceans, when they spoke of 'hard' meant 'evil,' or something which you do + not understand. Let us ask Prodicus, for he ought to be able to answer + questions about the dialect of Simonides. What did he mean, Prodicus, by + the term 'hard'? + </p> + <p> + Evil, said Prodicus. + </p> + <p> + And therefore, I said, Prodicus, he blames Pittacus for saying, 'Hard is + the good,' just as if that were equivalent to saying, Evil is the good. + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said, that was certainly his meaning; and he is twitting Pittacus + with ignorance of the use of terms, which in a Lesbian, who has been + accustomed to speak a barbarous language, is natural. + </p> + <p> + Do you hear, Protagoras, I asked, what our friend Prodicus is saying? And + have you an answer for him? + </p> + <p> + You are entirely mistaken, Prodicus, said Protagoras; and I know very well + that Simonides in using the word 'hard' meant what all of us mean, not + evil, but that which is not easy—that which takes a great deal of + trouble: of this I am positive. + </p> + <p> + I said: I also incline to believe, Protagoras, that this was the meaning + of Simonides, of which our friend Prodicus was very well aware, but he + thought that he would make fun, and try if you could maintain your thesis; + for that Simonides could never have meant the other is clearly proved by + the context, in which he says that God only has this gift. Now he cannot + surely mean to say that to be good is evil, when he afterwards proceeds to + say that God only has this gift, and that this is the attribute of him and + of no other. For if this be his meaning, Prodicus would impute to + Simonides a character of recklessness which is very unlike his countrymen. + And I should like to tell you, I said, what I imagine to be the real + meaning of Simonides in this poem, if you will test what, in your way of + speaking, would be called my skill in poetry; or if you would rather, I + will be the listener. + </p> + <p> + To this proposal Protagoras replied: As you please;—and Hippias, + Prodicus, and the others told me by all means to do as I proposed. + </p> + <p> + Then now, I said, I will endeavour to explain to you my opinion about this + poem of Simonides. There is a very ancient philosophy which is more + cultivated in Crete and Lacedaemon than in any other part of Hellas, and + there are more philosophers in those countries than anywhere else in the + world. This, however, is a secret which the Lacedaemonians deny; and they + pretend to be ignorant, just because they do not wish to have it thought + that they rule the world by wisdom, like the Sophists of whom Protagoras + was speaking, and not by valour of arms; considering that if the reason of + their superiority were disclosed, all men would be practising their + wisdom. And this secret of theirs has never been discovered by the + imitators of Lacedaemonian fashions in other cities, who go about with + their ears bruised in imitation of them, and have the caestus bound on + their arms, and are always in training, and wear short cloaks; for they + imagine that these are the practices which have enabled the Lacedaemonians + to conquer the other Hellenes. Now when the Lacedaemonians want to unbend + and hold free conversation with their wise men, and are no longer + satisfied with mere secret intercourse, they drive out all these + laconizers, and any other foreigners who may happen to be in their + country, and they hold a philosophical seance unknown to strangers; and + they themselves forbid their young men to go out into other cities—in + this they are like the Cretans—in order that they may not unlearn + the lessons which they have taught them. And in Lacedaemon and Crete not + only men but also women have a pride in their high cultivation. And hereby + you may know that I am right in attributing to the Lacedaemonians this + excellence in philosophy and speculation: If a man converses with the most + ordinary Lacedaemonian, he will find him seldom good for much in general + conversation, but at any point in the discourse he will be darting out + some notable saying, terse and full of meaning, with unerring aim; and the + person with whom he is talking seems to be like a child in his hands. And + many of our own age and of former ages have noted that the true + Lacedaemonian type of character has the love of philosophy even stronger + than the love of gymnastics; they are conscious that only a perfectly + educated man is capable of uttering such expressions. Such were Thales of + Miletus, and Pittacus of Mitylene, and Bias of Priene, and our own Solon, + and Cleobulus the Lindian, and Myson the Chenian; and seventh in the + catalogue of wise men was the Lacedaemonian Chilo. All these were lovers + and emulators and disciples of the culture of the Lacedaemonians, and any + one may perceive that their wisdom was of this character; consisting of + short memorable sentences, which they severally uttered. And they met + together and dedicated in the temple of Apollo at Delphi, as the + first-fruits of their wisdom, the far-famed inscriptions, which are in all + men's mouths—'Know thyself,' and 'Nothing too much.' + </p> + <p> + Why do I say all this? I am explaining that this Lacedaemonian brevity was + the style of primitive philosophy. Now there was a saying of Pittacus + which was privately circulated and received the approbation of the wise, + 'Hard is it to be good.' And Simonides, who was ambitious of the fame of + wisdom, was aware that if he could overthrow this saying, then, as if he + had won a victory over some famous athlete, he would carry off the palm + among his contemporaries. And if I am not mistaken, he composed the entire + poem with the secret intention of damaging Pittacus and his saying. + </p> + <p> + Let us all unite in examining his words, and see whether I am speaking the + truth. Simonides must have been a lunatic, if, in the very first words of + the poem, wanting to say only that to become good is hard, he inserted + (Greek) 'on the one hand' ('on the one hand to become good is hard'); + there would be no reason for the introduction of (Greek), unless you + suppose him to speak with a hostile reference to the words of Pittacus. + Pittacus is saying 'Hard is it to be good,' and he, in refutation of this + thesis, rejoins that the truly hard thing, Pittacus, is to become good, + not joining 'truly' with 'good,' but with 'hard.' Not, that the hard thing + is to be truly good, as though there were some truly good men, and there + were others who were good but not truly good (this would be a very simple + observation, and quite unworthy of Simonides); but you must suppose him to + make a trajection of the word 'truly' (Greek), construing the saying of + Pittacus thus (and let us imagine Pittacus to be speaking and Simonides + answering him): 'O my friends,' says Pittacus, 'hard is it to be good,' + and Simonides answers, 'In that, Pittacus, you are mistaken; the + difficulty is not to be good, but on the one hand, to become good, + four-square in hands and feet and mind, without a flaw—that is hard + truly.' This way of reading the passage accounts for the insertion of + (Greek) 'on the one hand,' and for the position at the end of the clause + of the word 'truly,' and all that follows shows this to be the meaning. A + great deal might be said in praise of the details of the poem, which is a + charming piece of workmanship, and very finished, but such minutiae would + be tedious. I should like, however, to point out the general intention of + the poem, which is certainly designed in every part to be a refutation of + the saying of Pittacus. For he speaks in what follows a little further on + as if he meant to argue that although there is a difficulty in becoming + good, yet this is possible for a time, and only for a time. But having + become good, to remain in a good state and be good, as you, Pittacus, + affirm, is not possible, and is not granted to man; God only has this + blessing; 'but man cannot help being bad when the force of circumstances + overpowers him.' Now whom does the force of circumstance overpower in the + command of a vessel?—not the private individual, for he is always + overpowered; and as one who is already prostrate cannot be overthrown, and + only he who is standing upright but not he who is prostrate can be laid + prostrate, so the force of circumstances can only overpower him who, at + some time or other, has resources, and not him who is at all times + helpless. The descent of a great storm may make the pilot helpless, or the + severity of the season the husbandman or the physician; for the good may + become bad, as another poet witnesses:— + </p> + <p> + 'The good are sometimes good and sometimes bad.' + </p> + <p> + But the bad does not become bad; he is always bad. So that when the force + of circumstances overpowers the man of resources and skill and virtue, + then he cannot help being bad. And you, Pittacus, are saying, 'Hard is it + to be good.' Now there is a difficulty in becoming good; and yet this is + possible: but to be good is an impossibility— + </p> + <p> + 'For he who does well is the good man, and he who does ill is the bad.' + </p> + <p> + But what sort of doing is good in letters? and what sort of doing makes a + man good in letters? Clearly the knowing of them. And what sort of + well-doing makes a man a good physician? Clearly the knowledge of the art + of healing the sick. 'But he who does ill is the bad.' Now who becomes a + bad physician? Clearly he who is in the first place a physician, and in + the second place a good physician; for he may become a bad one also: but + none of us unskilled individuals can by any amount of doing ill become + physicians, any more than we can become carpenters or anything of that + sort; and he who by doing ill cannot become a physician at all, clearly + cannot become a bad physician. In like manner the good may become + deteriorated by time, or toil, or disease, or other accident (the only + real doing ill is to be deprived of knowledge), but the bad man will never + become bad, for he is always bad; and if he were to become bad, he must + previously have been good. Thus the words of the poem tend to show that on + the one hand a man cannot be continuously good, but that he may become + good and may also become bad; and again that + </p> + <p> + 'They are the best for the longest time whom the gods love.' + </p> + <p> + All this relates to Pittacus, as is further proved by the sequel. For he + adds:— + </p> + <p> + 'Therefore I will not throw away my span of life to no purpose in + searching after the impossible, hoping in vain to find a perfectly + faultless man among those who partake of the fruit of the broad-bosomed + earth: if I find him, I will send you word.' + </p> + <p> + (this is the vehement way in which he pursues his attack upon Pittacus + throughout the whole poem): + </p> + <p> + 'But him who does no evil, voluntarily I praise and love;—not even + the gods war against necessity.' + </p> + <p> + All this has a similar drift, for Simonides was not so ignorant as to say + that he praised those who did no evil voluntarily, as though there were + some who did evil voluntarily. For no wise man, as I believe, will allow + that any human being errs voluntarily, or voluntarily does evil and + dishonourable actions; but they are very well aware that all who do evil + and dishonourable things do them against their will. And Simonides never + says that he praises him who does no evil voluntarily; the word + 'voluntarily' applies to himself. For he was under the impression that a + good man might often compel himself to love and praise another, and to be + the friend and approver of another; and that there might be an involuntary + love, such as a man might feel to an unnatural father or mother, or + country, or the like. Now bad men, when their parents or country have any + defects, look on them with malignant joy, and find fault with them and + expose and denounce them to others, under the idea that the rest of + mankind will be less likely to take themselves to task and accuse them of + neglect; and they blame their defects far more than they deserve, in order + that the odium which is necessarily incurred by them may be increased: but + the good man dissembles his feelings, and constrains himself to praise + them; and if they have wronged him and he is angry, he pacifies his anger + and is reconciled, and compels himself to love and praise his own flesh + and blood. And Simonides, as is probable, considered that he himself had + often had to praise and magnify a tyrant or the like, much against his + will, and he also wishes to imply to Pittacus that he does not censure him + because he is censorious. + </p> + <p> + 'For I am satisfied' he says, 'when a man is neither bad nor very stupid; + and when he knows justice (which is the health of states), and is of sound + mind, I will find no fault with him, for I am not given to finding fault, + and there are innumerable fools' + </p> + <p> + (implying that if he delighted in censure he might have abundant + opportunity of finding fault). + </p> + <p> + 'All things are good with which evil is unmingled.' + </p> + <p> + In these latter words he does not mean to say that all things are good + which have no evil in them, as you might say 'All things are white which + have no black in them,' for that would be ridiculous; but he means to say + that he accepts and finds no fault with the moderate or intermediate + state. + </p> + <p> + ('I do not hope' he says, 'to find a perfectly blameless man among those + who partake of the fruits of the broad-bosomed earth (if I find him, I + will send you word); in this sense I praise no man. But he who is + moderately good, and does no evil, is good enough for me, who love and + approve every one') + </p> + <p> + (and here observe that he uses a Lesbian word, epainemi (approve), because + he is addressing Pittacus, + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + 'Who love and APPROVE every one VOLUNTARILY, who does no evil:' +</pre> + <p> + and that the stop should be put after 'voluntarily'); 'but there are some + whom I involuntarily praise and love. And you, Pittacus, I would never + have blamed, if you had spoken what was moderately good and true; but I do + blame you because, putting on the appearance of truth, you are speaking + falsely about the highest matters.'—And this, I said, Prodicus and + Protagoras, I take to be the meaning of Simonides in this poem. + </p> + <p> + Hippias said: I think, Socrates, that you have given a very good + explanation of the poem; but I have also an excellent interpretation of my + own which I will propound to you, if you will allow me. + </p> + <p> + Nay, Hippias, said Alcibiades; not now, but at some other time. At present + we must abide by the compact which was made between Socrates and + Protagoras, to the effect that as long as Protagoras is willing to ask, + Socrates should answer; or that if he would rather answer, then that + Socrates should ask. + </p> + <p> + I said: I wish Protagoras either to ask or answer as he is inclined; but I + would rather have done with poems and odes, if he does not object, and + come back to the question about which I was asking you at first, + Protagoras, and by your help make an end of that. The talk about the poets + seems to me like a commonplace entertainment to which a vulgar company + have recourse; who, because they are not able to converse or amuse one + another, while they are drinking, with the sound of their own voices and + conversation, by reason of their stupidity, raise the price of flute-girls + in the market, hiring for a great sum the voice of a flute instead of + their own breath, to be the medium of intercourse among them: but where + the company are real gentlemen and men of education, you will see no + flute-girls, nor dancing-girls, nor harp-girls; and they have no nonsense + or games, but are contented with one another's conversation, of which + their own voices are the medium, and which they carry on by turns and in + an orderly manner, even though they are very liberal in their potations. + And a company like this of ours, and men such as we profess to be, do not + require the help of another's voice, or of the poets whom you cannot + interrogate about the meaning of what they are saying; people who cite + them declaring, some that the poet has one meaning, and others that he has + another, and the point which is in dispute can never be decided. This sort + of entertainment they decline, and prefer to talk with one another, and + put one another to the proof in conversation. And these are the models + which I desire that you and I should imitate. Leaving the poets, and + keeping to ourselves, let us try the mettle of one another and make proof + of the truth in conversation. If you have a mind to ask, I am ready to + answer; or if you would rather, do you answer, and give me the opportunity + of resuming and completing our unfinished argument. + </p> + <p> + I made these and some similar observations; but Protagoras would not + distinctly say which he would do. Thereupon Alcibiades turned to Callias, + and said:—Do you think, Callias, that Protagoras is fair in refusing + to say whether he will or will not answer? for I certainly think that he + is unfair; he ought either to proceed with the argument, or distinctly + refuse to proceed, that we may know his intention; and then Socrates will + be able to discourse with some one else, and the rest of the company will + be free to talk with one another. + </p> + <p> + I think that Protagoras was really made ashamed by these words of + Alcibiades, and when the prayers of Callias and the company were + superadded, he was at last induced to argue, and said that I might ask and + he would answer. + </p> + <p> + So I said: Do not imagine, Protagoras, that I have any other interest in + asking questions of you but that of clearing up my own difficulties. For I + think that Homer was very right in saying that + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + 'When two go together, one sees before the other (Il.),' +</pre> + <p> + for all men who have a companion are readier in deed, word, or thought; + but if a man + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + 'Sees a thing when he is alone,' +</pre> + <p> + he goes about straightway seeking until he finds some one to whom he may + show his discoveries, and who may confirm him in them. And I would rather + hold discourse with you than with any one, because I think that no man has + a better understanding of most things which a good man may be expected to + understand, and in particular of virtue. For who is there, but you?—who + not only claim to be a good man and a gentleman, for many are this, and + yet have not the power of making others good—whereas you are not + only good yourself, but also the cause of goodness in others. Moreover + such confidence have you in yourself, that although other Sophists conceal + their profession, you proclaim in the face of Hellas that you are a + Sophist or teacher of virtue and education, and are the first who demanded + pay in return. How then can I do otherwise than invite you to the + examination of these subjects, and ask questions and consult with you? I + must, indeed. And I should like once more to have my memory refreshed by + you about the questions which I was asking you at first, and also to have + your help in considering them. If I am not mistaken the question was this: + Are wisdom and temperance and courage and justice and holiness five names + of the same thing? or has each of the names a separate underlying essence + and corresponding thing having a peculiar function, no one of them being + like any other of them? And you replied that the five names were not the + names of the same thing, but that each of them had a separate object, and + that all these objects were parts of virtue, not in the same way that the + parts of gold are like each other and the whole of which they are parts, + but as the parts of the face are unlike the whole of which they are parts + and one another, and have each of them a distinct function. I should like + to know whether this is still your opinion; or if not, I will ask you to + define your meaning, and I shall not take you to task if you now make a + different statement. For I dare say that you may have said what you did + only in order to make trial of me. + </p> + <p> + I answer, Socrates, he said, that all these qualities are parts of virtue, + and that four out of the five are to some extent similar, and that the + fifth of them, which is courage, is very different from the other four, as + I prove in this way: You may observe that many men are utterly + unrighteous, unholy, intemperate, ignorant, who are nevertheless + remarkable for their courage. + </p> + <p> + Stop, I said; I should like to think about that. When you speak of brave + men, do you mean the confident, or another sort of nature? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said; I mean the impetuous, ready to go at that which others are + afraid to approach. + </p> + <p> + In the next place, you would affirm virtue to be a good thing, of which + good thing you assert yourself to be a teacher. + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said; I should say the best of all things, if I am in my right + mind. + </p> + <p> + And is it partly good and partly bad, I said, or wholly good? + </p> + <p> + Wholly good, and in the highest degree. + </p> + <p> + Tell me then; who are they who have confidence when diving into a well? + </p> + <p> + I should say, the divers. + </p> + <p> + And the reason of this is that they have knowledge? + </p> + <p> + Yes, that is the reason. + </p> + <p> + And who have confidence when fighting on horseback—the skilled + horseman or the unskilled? + </p> + <p> + The skilled. + </p> + <p> + And who when fighting with light shields—the peltasts or the + nonpeltasts? + </p> + <p> + The peltasts. And that is true of all other things, he said, if that is + your point: those who have knowledge are more confident than those who + have no knowledge, and they are more confident after they have learned + than before. + </p> + <p> + And have you not seen persons utterly ignorant, I said, of these things, + and yet confident about them? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said, I have seen such persons far too confident. + </p> + <p> + And are not these confident persons also courageous? + </p> + <p> + In that case, he replied, courage would be a base thing, for the men of + whom we are speaking are surely madmen. + </p> + <p> + Then who are the courageous? Are they not the confident? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said; to that statement I adhere. + </p> + <p> + And those, I said, who are thus confident without knowledge are really not + courageous, but mad; and in that case the wisest are also the most + confident, and being the most confident are also the bravest, and upon + that view again wisdom will be courage. + </p> + <p> + Nay, Socrates, he replied, you are mistaken in your remembrance of what + was said by me. When you asked me, I certainly did say that the courageous + are the confident; but I was never asked whether the confident are the + courageous; if you had asked me, I should have answered 'Not all of them': + and what I did answer you have not proved to be false, although you + proceeded to show that those who have knowledge are more courageous than + they were before they had knowledge, and more courageous than others who + have no knowledge, and were then led on to think that courage is the same + as wisdom. But in this way of arguing you might come to imagine that + strength is wisdom. You might begin by asking whether the strong are able, + and I should say 'Yes'; and then whether those who know how to wrestle are + not more able to wrestle than those who do not know how to wrestle, and + more able after than before they had learned, and I should assent. And + when I had admitted this, you might use my admissions in such a way as to + prove that upon my view wisdom is strength; whereas in that case I should + not have admitted, any more than in the other, that the able are strong, + although I have admitted that the strong are able. For there is a + difference between ability and strength; the former is given by knowledge + as well as by madness or rage, but strength comes from nature and a + healthy state of the body. And in like manner I say of confidence and + courage, that they are not the same; and I argue that the courageous are + confident, but not all the confident courageous. For confidence may be + given to men by art, and also, like ability, by madness and rage; but + courage comes to them from nature and the healthy state of the soul. + </p> + <p> + I said: You would admit, Protagoras, that some men live well and others + ill? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And do you think that a man lives well who lives in pain and grief? + </p> + <p> + He does not. + </p> + <p> + But if he lives pleasantly to the end of his life, will he not in that + case have lived well? + </p> + <p> + He will. + </p> + <p> + Then to live pleasantly is a good, and to live unpleasantly an evil? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said, if the pleasure be good and honourable. + </p> + <p> + And do you, Protagoras, like the rest of the world, call some pleasant + things evil and some painful things good?—for I am rather disposed + to say that things are good in as far as they are pleasant, if they have + no consequences of another sort, and in as far as they are painful they + are bad. + </p> + <p> + I do not know, Socrates, he said, whether I can venture to assert in that + unqualified manner that the pleasant is the good and the painful the evil. + Having regard not only to my present answer, but also to the whole of my + life, I shall be safer, if I am not mistaken, in saying that there are + some pleasant things which are not good, and that there are some painful + things which are good, and some which are not good, and that there are + some which are neither good nor evil. + </p> + <p> + And you would call pleasant, I said, the things which participate in + pleasure or create pleasure? + </p> + <p> + Certainly, he said. + </p> + <p> + Then my meaning is, that in as far as they are pleasant they are good; and + my question would imply that pleasure is a good in itself. + </p> + <p> + According to your favourite mode of speech, Socrates, 'Let us reflect + about this,' he said; and if the reflection is to the point, and the + result proves that pleasure and good are really the same, then we will + agree; but if not, then we will argue. + </p> + <p> + And would you wish to begin the enquiry? I said; or shall I begin? + </p> + <p> + You ought to take the lead, he said; for you are the author of the + discussion. + </p> + <p> + May I employ an illustration? I said. Suppose some one who is enquiring + into the health or some other bodily quality of another:—he looks at + his face and at the tips of his fingers, and then he says, Uncover your + chest and back to me that I may have a better view:—that is the sort + of thing which I desire in this speculation. Having seen what your opinion + is about good and pleasure, I am minded to say to you: Uncover your mind + to me, Protagoras, and reveal your opinion about knowledge, that I may + know whether you agree with the rest of the world. Now the rest of the + world are of opinion that knowledge is a principle not of strength, or of + rule, or of command: their notion is that a man may have knowledge, and + yet that the knowledge which is in him may be overmastered by anger, or + pleasure, or pain, or love, or perhaps by fear,—just as if knowledge + were a slave, and might be dragged about anyhow. Now is that your view? or + do you think that knowledge is a noble and commanding thing, which cannot + be overcome, and will not allow a man, if he only knows the difference of + good and evil, to do anything which is contrary to knowledge, but that + wisdom will have strength to help him? + </p> + <p> + I agree with you, Socrates, said Protagoras; and not only so, but I, above + all other men, am bound to say that wisdom and knowledge are the highest + of human things. + </p> + <p> + Good, I said, and true. But are you aware that the majority of the world + are of another mind; and that men are commonly supposed to know the things + which are best, and not to do them when they might? And most persons whom + I have asked the reason of this have said that when men act contrary to + knowledge they are overcome by pain, or pleasure, or some of those + affections which I was just now mentioning. + </p> + <p> + Yes, Socrates, he replied; and that is not the only point about which + mankind are in error. + </p> + <p> + Suppose, then, that you and I endeavour to instruct and inform them what + is the nature of this affection which they call 'being overcome by + pleasure,' and which they affirm to be the reason why they do not always + do what is best. When we say to them: Friends, you are mistaken, and are + saying what is not true, they would probably reply: Socrates and + Protagoras, if this affection of the soul is not to be called 'being + overcome by pleasure,' pray, what is it, and by what name would you + describe it? + </p> + <p> + But why, Socrates, should we trouble ourselves about the opinion of the + many, who just say anything that happens to occur to them? + </p> + <p> + I believe, I said, that they may be of use in helping us to discover how + courage is related to the other parts of virtue. If you are disposed to + abide by our agreement, that I should show the way in which, as I think, + our recent difficulty is most likely to be cleared up, do you follow; but + if not, never mind. + </p> + <p> + You are quite right, he said; and I would have you proceed as you have + begun. + </p> + <p> + Well then, I said, let me suppose that they repeat their question, What + account do you give of that which, in our way of speaking, is termed being + overcome by pleasure? I should answer thus: Listen, and Protagoras and I + will endeavour to show you. When men are overcome by eating and drinking + and other sensual desires which are pleasant, and they, knowing them to be + evil, nevertheless indulge in them, would you not say that they were + overcome by pleasure? They will not deny this. And suppose that you and I + were to go on and ask them again: 'In what way do you say that they are + evil,—in that they are pleasant and give pleasure at the moment, or + because they cause disease and poverty and other like evils in the future? + Would they still be evil, if they had no attendant evil consequences, + simply because they give the consciousness of pleasure of whatever + nature?'—Would they not answer that they are not evil on account of + the pleasure which is immediately given by them, but on account of the + after consequences—diseases and the like? + </p> + <p> + I believe, said Protagoras, that the world in general would answer as you + do. + </p> + <p> + And in causing diseases do they not cause pain? and in causing poverty do + they not cause pain;—they would agree to that also, if I am not + mistaken? + </p> + <p> + Protagoras assented. + </p> + <p> + Then I should say to them, in my name and yours: Do you think them evil + for any other reason, except because they end in pain and rob us of other + pleasures:—there again they would agree? + </p> + <p> + We both of us thought that they would. + </p> + <p> + And then I should take the question from the opposite point of view, and + say: 'Friends, when you speak of goods being painful, do you not mean + remedial goods, such as gymnastic exercises, and military service, and the + physician's use of burning, cutting, drugging, and starving? Are these the + things which are good but painful?'—they would assent to me? + </p> + <p> + He agreed. + </p> + <p> + 'And do you call them good because they occasion the greatest immediate + suffering and pain; or because, afterwards, they bring health and + improvement of the bodily condition and the salvation of states and power + over others and wealth?'—they would agree to the latter alternative, + if I am not mistaken? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + 'Are these things good for any other reason except that they end in + pleasure, and get rid of and avert pain? Are you looking to any other + standard but pleasure and pain when you call them good?'—they would + acknowledge that they were not? + </p> + <p> + I think so, said Protagoras. + </p> + <p> + 'And do you not pursue after pleasure as a good, and avoid pain as an + evil?' + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + 'Then you think that pain is an evil and pleasure is a good: and even + pleasure you deem an evil, when it robs you of greater pleasures than it + gives, or causes pains greater than the pleasure. If, however, you call + pleasure an evil in relation to some other end or standard, you will be + able to show us that standard. But you have none to show.' + </p> + <p> + I do not think that they have, said Protagoras. + </p> + <p> + 'And have you not a similar way of speaking about pain? You call pain a + good when it takes away greater pains than those which it has, or gives + pleasures greater than the pains: then if you have some standard other + than pleasure and pain to which you refer when you call actual pain a + good, you can show what that is. But you cannot.' + </p> + <p> + True, said Protagoras. + </p> + <p> + Suppose again, I said, that the world says to me: 'Why do you spend many + words and speak in many ways on this subject?' Excuse me, friends, I + should reply; but in the first place there is a difficulty in explaining + the meaning of the expression 'overcome by pleasure'; and the whole + argument turns upon this. And even now, if you see any possible way in + which evil can be explained as other than pain, or good as other than + pleasure, you may still retract. Are you satisfied, then, at having a life + of pleasure which is without pain? If you are, and if you are unable to + show any good or evil which does not end in pleasure and pain, hear the + consequences:—If what you say is true, then the argument is absurd + which affirms that a man often does evil knowingly, when he might abstain, + because he is seduced and overpowered by pleasure; or again, when you say + that a man knowingly refuses to do what is good because he is overcome at + the moment by pleasure. And that this is ridiculous will be evident if + only we give up the use of various names, such as pleasant and painful, + and good and evil. As there are two things, let us call them by two names—first, + good and evil, and then pleasant and painful. Assuming this, let us go on + to say that a man does evil knowing that he does evil. But some one will + ask, Why? Because he is overcome, is the first answer. And by what is he + overcome? the enquirer will proceed to ask. And we shall not be able to + reply 'By pleasure,' for the name of pleasure has been exchanged for that + of good. In our answer, then, we shall only say that he is overcome. 'By + what?' he will reiterate. By the good, we shall have to reply; indeed we + shall. Nay, but our questioner will rejoin with a laugh, if he be one of + the swaggering sort, 'That is too ridiculous, that a man should do what he + knows to be evil when he ought not, because he is overcome by good. Is + that, he will ask, because the good was worthy or not worthy of conquering + the evil'? And in answer to that we shall clearly reply, Because it was + not worthy; for if it had been worthy, then he who, as we say, was + overcome by pleasure, would not have been wrong. 'But how,' he will reply, + 'can the good be unworthy of the evil, or the evil of the good'? Is not + the real explanation that they are out of proportion to one another, + either as greater and smaller, or more and fewer? This we cannot deny. And + when you speak of being overcome—'what do you mean,' he will say, + 'but that you choose the greater evil in exchange for the lesser good?' + Admitted. And now substitute the names of pleasure and pain for good and + evil, and say, not as before, that a man does what is evil knowingly, but + that he does what is painful knowingly, and because he is overcome by + pleasure, which is unworthy to overcome. What measure is there of the + relations of pleasure to pain other than excess and defect, which means + that they become greater and smaller, and more and fewer, and differ in + degree? For if any one says: 'Yes, Socrates, but immediate pleasure + differs widely from future pleasure and pain'—To that I should + reply: And do they differ in anything but in pleasure and pain? There can + be no other measure of them. And do you, like a skilful weigher, put into + the balance the pleasures and the pains, and their nearness and distance, + and weigh them, and then say which outweighs the other. If you weigh + pleasures against pleasures, you of course take the more and greater; or + if you weigh pains against pains, you take the fewer and the less; or if + pleasures against pains, then you choose that course of action in which + the painful is exceeded by the pleasant, whether the distant by the near + or the near by the distant; and you avoid that course of action in which + the pleasant is exceeded by the painful. Would you not admit, my friends, + that this is true? I am confident that they cannot deny this. + </p> + <p> + He agreed with me. + </p> + <p> + Well then, I shall say, if you agree so far, be so good as to answer me a + question: Do not the same magnitudes appear larger to your sight when + near, and smaller when at a distance? They will acknowledge that. And the + same holds of thickness and number; also sounds, which are in themselves + equal, are greater when near, and lesser when at a distance. They will + grant that also. Now suppose happiness to consist in doing or choosing the + greater, and in not doing or in avoiding the less, what would be the + saving principle of human life? Would not the art of measuring be the + saving principle; or would the power of appearance? Is not the latter that + deceiving art which makes us wander up and down and take the things at one + time of which we repent at another, both in our actions and in our choice + of things great and small? But the art of measurement would do away with + the effect of appearances, and, showing the truth, would fain teach the + soul at last to find rest in the truth, and would thus save our life. + Would not mankind generally acknowledge that the art which accomplishes + this result is the art of measurement? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said, the art of measurement. + </p> + <p> + Suppose, again, the salvation of human life to depend on the choice of odd + and even, and on the knowledge of when a man ought to choose the greater + or less, either in reference to themselves or to each other, and whether + near or at a distance; what would be the saving principle of our lives? + Would not knowledge?—a knowledge of measuring, when the question is + one of excess and defect, and a knowledge of number, when the question is + of odd and even? The world will assent, will they not? + </p> + <p> + Protagoras himself thought that they would. + </p> + <p> + Well then, my friends, I say to them; seeing that the salvation of human + life has been found to consist in the right choice of pleasures and pains,—in + the choice of the more and the fewer, and the greater and the less, and + the nearer and remoter, must not this measuring be a consideration of + their excess and defect and equality in relation to each other? + </p> + <p> + This is undeniably true. + </p> + <p> + And this, as possessing measure, must undeniably also be an art and + science? + </p> + <p> + They will agree, he said. + </p> + <p> + The nature of that art or science will be a matter of future + consideration; but the existence of such a science furnishes a + demonstrative answer to the question which you asked of me and Protagoras. + At the time when you asked the question, if you remember, both of us were + agreeing that there was nothing mightier than knowledge, and that + knowledge, in whatever existing, must have the advantage over pleasure and + all other things; and then you said that pleasure often got the advantage + even over a man who has knowledge; and we refused to allow this, and you + rejoined: O Protagoras and Socrates, what is the meaning of being overcome + by pleasure if not this?—tell us what you call such a state:—if + we had immediately and at the time answered 'Ignorance,' you would have + laughed at us. But now, in laughing at us, you will be laughing at + yourselves: for you also admitted that men err in their choice of + pleasures and pains; that is, in their choice of good and evil, from + defect of knowledge; and you admitted further, that they err, not only + from defect of knowledge in general, but of that particular knowledge + which is called measuring. And you are also aware that the erring act + which is done without knowledge is done in ignorance. This, therefore, is + the meaning of being overcome by pleasure;—ignorance, and that the + greatest. And our friends Protagoras and Prodicus and Hippias declare that + they are the physicians of ignorance; but you, who are under the mistaken + impression that ignorance is not the cause, and that the art of which I am + speaking cannot be taught, neither go yourselves, nor send your children, + to the Sophists, who are the teachers of these things—you take care + of your money and give them none; and the result is, that you are the + worse off both in public and private life:—Let us suppose this to be + our answer to the world in general: And now I should like to ask you, + Hippias, and you, Prodicus, as well as Protagoras (for the argument is to + be yours as well as ours), whether you think that I am speaking the truth + or not? + </p> + <p> + They all thought that what I said was entirely true. + </p> + <p> + Then you agree, I said, that the pleasant is the good, and the painful + evil. And here I would beg my friend Prodicus not to introduce his + distinction of names, whether he is disposed to say pleasurable, + delightful, joyful. However, by whatever name he prefers to call them, I + will ask you, most excellent Prodicus, to answer in my sense of the words. + </p> + <p> + Prodicus laughed and assented, as did the others. + </p> + <p> + Then, my friends, what do you say to this? Are not all actions honourable + and useful, of which the tendency is to make life painless and pleasant? + The honourable work is also useful and good? + </p> + <p> + This was admitted. + </p> + <p> + Then, I said, if the pleasant is the good, nobody does anything under the + idea or conviction that some other thing would be better and is also + attainable, when he might do the better. And this inferiority of a man to + himself is merely ignorance, as the superiority of a man to himself is + wisdom. + </p> + <p> + They all assented. + </p> + <p> + And is not ignorance the having a false opinion and being deceived about + important matters? + </p> + <p> + To this also they unanimously assented. + </p> + <p> + Then, I said, no man voluntarily pursues evil, or that which he thinks to + be evil. To prefer evil to good is not in human nature; and when a man is + compelled to choose one of two evils, no one will choose the greater when + he may have the less. + </p> + <p> + All of us agreed to every word of this. + </p> + <p> + Well, I said, there is a certain thing called fear or terror; and here, + Prodicus, I should particularly like to know whether you would agree with + me in defining this fear or terror as expectation of evil. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras and Hippias agreed, but Prodicus said that this was fear and + not terror. + </p> + <p> + Never mind, Prodicus, I said; but let me ask whether, if our former + assertions are true, a man will pursue that which he fears when he is not + compelled? Would not this be in flat contradiction to the admission which + has been already made, that he thinks the things which he fears to be + evil; and no one will pursue or voluntarily accept that which he thinks to + be evil? + </p> + <p> + That also was universally admitted. + </p> + <p> + Then, I said, these, Hippias and Prodicus, are our premisses; and I would + beg Protagoras to explain to us how he can be right in what he said at + first. I do not mean in what he said quite at first, for his first + statement, as you may remember, was that whereas there were five parts of + virtue none of them was like any other of them; each of them had a + separate function. To this, however, I am not referring, but to the + assertion which he afterwards made that of the five virtues four were + nearly akin to each other, but that the fifth, which was courage, differed + greatly from the others. And of this he gave me the following proof. He + said: You will find, Socrates, that some of the most impious, and + unrighteous, and intemperate, and ignorant of men are among the most + courageous; which proves that courage is very different from the other + parts of virtue. I was surprised at his saying this at the time, and I am + still more surprised now that I have discussed the matter with you. So I + asked him whether by the brave he meant the confident. Yes, he replied, + and the impetuous or goers. (You may remember, Protagoras, that this was + your answer.) + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + Well then, I said, tell us against what are the courageous ready to go—against + the same dangers as the cowards? + </p> + <p> + No, he answered. + </p> + <p> + Then against something different? + </p> + <p> + Yes, he said. + </p> + <p> + Then do cowards go where there is safety, and the courageous where there + is danger? + </p> + <p> + Yes, Socrates, so men say. + </p> + <p> + Very true, I said. But I want to know against what do you say that the + courageous are ready to go—against dangers, believing them to be + dangers, or not against dangers? + </p> + <p> + No, said he; the former case has been proved by you in the previous + argument to be impossible. + </p> + <p> + That, again, I replied, is quite true. And if this has been rightly + proven, then no one goes to meet what he thinks to be dangers, since the + want of self-control, which makes men rush into dangers, has been shown to + be ignorance. + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And yet the courageous man and the coward alike go to meet that about + which they are confident; so that, in this point of view, the cowardly and + the courageous go to meet the same things. + </p> + <p> + And yet, Socrates, said Protagoras, that to which the coward goes is the + opposite of that to which the courageous goes; the one, for example, is + ready to go to battle, and the other is not ready. + </p> + <p> + And is going to battle honourable or disgraceful? I said. + </p> + <p> + Honourable, he replied. + </p> + <p> + And if honourable, then already admitted by us to be good; for all + honourable actions we have admitted to be good. + </p> + <p> + That is true; and to that opinion I shall always adhere. + </p> + <p> + True, I said. But which of the two are they who, as you say, are unwilling + to go to war, which is a good and honourable thing? + </p> + <p> + The cowards, he replied. + </p> + <p> + And what is good and honourable, I said, is also pleasant? + </p> + <p> + It has certainly been acknowledged to be so, he replied. + </p> + <p> + And do the cowards knowingly refuse to go to the nobler, and pleasanter, + and better? + </p> + <p> + The admission of that, he replied, would belie our former admissions. + </p> + <p> + But does not the courageous man also go to meet the better, and + pleasanter, and nobler? + </p> + <p> + That must be admitted. + </p> + <p> + And the courageous man has no base fear or base confidence? + </p> + <p> + True, he replied. + </p> + <p> + And if not base, then honourable? + </p> + <p> + He admitted this. + </p> + <p> + And if honourable, then good? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + But the fear and confidence of the coward or foolhardy or madman, on the + contrary, are base? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And these base fears and confidences originate in ignorance and + uninstructedness? + </p> + <p> + True, he said. + </p> + <p> + Then as to the motive from which the cowards act, do you call it cowardice + or courage? + </p> + <p> + I should say cowardice, he replied. + </p> + <p> + And have they not been shown to be cowards through their ignorance of + dangers? + </p> + <p> + Assuredly, he said. + </p> + <p> + And because of that ignorance they are cowards? + </p> + <p> + He assented. + </p> + <p> + And the reason why they are cowards is admitted by you to be cowardice? + </p> + <p> + He again assented. + </p> + <p> + Then the ignorance of what is and is not dangerous is cowardice? + </p> + <p> + He nodded assent. + </p> + <p> + But surely courage, I said, is opposed to cowardice? + </p> + <p> + Yes. + </p> + <p> + Then the wisdom which knows what are and are not dangers is opposed to the + ignorance of them? + </p> + <p> + To that again he nodded assent. + </p> + <p> + And the ignorance of them is cowardice? + </p> + <p> + To that he very reluctantly nodded assent. + </p> + <p> + And the knowledge of that which is and is not dangerous is courage, and is + opposed to the ignorance of these things? + </p> + <p> + At this point he would no longer nod assent, but was silent. + </p> + <p> + And why, I said, do you neither assent nor dissent, Protagoras? + </p> + <p> + Finish the argument by yourself, he said. + </p> + <p> + I only want to ask one more question, I said. I want to know whether you + still think that there are men who are most ignorant and yet most + courageous? + </p> + <p> + You seem to have a great ambition to make me answer, Socrates, and + therefore I will gratify you, and say, that this appears to me to be + impossible consistently with the argument. + </p> + <p> + My only object, I said, in continuing the discussion, has been the desire + to ascertain the nature and relations of virtue; for if this were clear, I + am very sure that the other controversy which has been carried on at great + length by both of us—you affirming and I denying that virtue can be + taught—would also become clear. The result of our discussion appears + to me to be singular. For if the argument had a human voice, that voice + would be heard laughing at us and saying: 'Protagoras and Socrates, you + are strange beings; there are you, Socrates, who were saying that virtue + cannot be taught, contradicting yourself now by your attempt to prove that + all things are knowledge, including justice, and temperance, and courage,—which + tends to show that virtue can certainly be taught; for if virtue were + other than knowledge, as Protagoras attempted to prove, then clearly + virtue cannot be taught; but if virtue is entirely knowledge, as you are + seeking to show, then I cannot but suppose that virtue is capable of being + taught. Protagoras, on the other hand, who started by saying that it might + be taught, is now eager to prove it to be anything rather than knowledge; + and if this is true, it must be quite incapable of being taught.' Now I, + Protagoras, perceiving this terrible confusion of our ideas, have a great + desire that they should be cleared up. And I should like to carry on the + discussion until we ascertain what virtue is, whether capable of being + taught or not, lest haply Epimetheus should trip us up and deceive us in + the argument, as he forgot us in the story; I prefer your Prometheus to + your Epimetheus, for of him I make use, whenever I am busy about these + questions, in Promethean care of my own life. And if you have no + objection, as I said at first, I should like to have your help in the + enquiry. + </p> + <p> + Protagoras replied: Socrates, I am not of a base nature, and I am the last + man in the world to be envious. I cannot but applaud your energy and your + conduct of an argument. As I have often said, I admire you above all men + whom I know, and far above all men of your age; and I believe that you + will become very eminent in philosophy. Let us come back to the subject at + some future time; at present we had better turn to something else. + </p> + <p> + By all means, I said, if that is your wish; for I too ought long since to + have kept the engagement of which I spoke before, and only tarried because + I could not refuse the request of the noble Callias. So the conversation + ended, and we went our way. + </p> + <p> + <br /><br /><br /><br /> + </p> +<pre xml:space="preserve"> + + + + + +End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of Protagoras, by Plato + +*** END OF THIS PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK PROTAGORAS *** + +***** This file should be named 1591-h.htm or 1591-h.zip ***** +This and all associated files of various formats will be found in: + http://www.gutenberg.org/1/5/9/1591/ + +Produced by Sue Asscher, and David Widger + +Updated editions will replace the previous one--the old editions +will be renamed. + +Creating the works from public domain print editions means that no +one owns a United States copyright in these works, so the Foundation +(and you!) can copy and distribute it in the United States without +permission and without paying copyright royalties. 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